Document zzvJV5QqEzJ5zJa44XqV7krx6

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA NEVADA POWER COMPANY, -vs- Plaintiff, MONSANTO COMPANY, GENERAL ELECTRIC CORPORATION,, et al., Defendants. ) ) ) # CV-89-555-LDG ) ) ) (L R L ) DEPOSITION OF GEORGE ROUSH, JR. On the part of the Plaintiff March 17, 1993 Coneannon & Jaeger General Court Reporters 705 Olive Street, Suite 604 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 (314) 421-1000 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA NEVADA POWER COMPANY, a Nevada corporation, -vs- Plaintiffs, ) MONSANTO COMPANY, e t . al ., Defendants. ) DEPOSITION OF JAMES MIEURE On the part of the Plaintiff March 29, 1993 Concannon & Jaeger General Court Reporters 705 Olive Street, Suite 604 i St. Louis, Missouri 63101 (314) 421-1000 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA 2 3 NEVADA POWER COMPANY, ) a Nevada corporation, ) 4) Plaintiffs, ) 5 -vs- ) # CV-5-89-555-LDG ) 6) MONSANTO COMPANY, et. al., ) 7) Defendants. ) 8 9 10 11 WITNESS: * INDEX Page: 12 JAMES MIEURE 13 Direct Examination by Mr. Bradley ............... 4 14 Cross Examination by Mr. F e a t h e r s t o n e ...........59 15 Redirect Examination by Mr. Bradley ............. 62 16 17 18 19 E X H I B I T S 20 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit #1428 ................. 48 21 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit #1491.................... 50 22 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit #895 ................. 50 23 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit # 1249 52 24 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit # 1513 52 25 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit # 1511 53 -2- LUNL'ANNUN S JAb'U L'K 1 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit # 1560 ............... 54 . 2 Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit # 419 ........ .. 56 3 Defendant's Deposition Exhibit A ............. . . . 62 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -3- CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA 2 3 NEVADA POWER COMPANY, a ) Nevada corporation, ) 4 Plaintiffs, ) ) 5 -vs- ) # CV-5-89-555-LDG ) 6) MONSANTO COMPANY, e t . a l ., ) 7 Defendants. ) 8 DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OF WITNESS, to be used in an 9 action pending in the District Court of the United States, 10 for the District of Nevada, wherein NEVADA POWER COMPANY is 11 Plaintiff, and MONSANTO COMPANY, et. al. is Defendant, 12 pursuant to Notice, under the provisions of Rule 26 of the 13 Rules of Civil Procedure, taken on March 29, 1993, at the 14 law offices of Messrs. Husch & Eppenberger, 100 North 15 Broadway, St. Louis, Missouri, before Sharon M. Watson, a 16 Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri. 17 A P P E A R A N C E S 18 The Plaintiff was respresented by Mr. Ralph A. Bradley of the law firm of Bradley. & Merrell, 300 South 19 Fourth Street, Suite 700, Las Vegas, Nevada 89101. 20 Defendant Monsanto was represented by M r . Bruce Featherstone of the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis. 21 Defendant Westinghouse was represented by Ms. Laurie 22 Basch of the law firm of Weil, Gotshal & Manges, 787 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York 10153. 23 24 25 CONCANhuw jAiK '5 * 1 JAMES MIEURE, 2 of lawful age, being first duly sworn to tell the truth, 3 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, deposes and 4 says on behalf of the Plaintiff, as follows: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 QUESTIONS BY MR. BRADLEY: 7 Q. Dr. Mieure, my name is Ralph Bradley. We . . 'r 8 introduced ourselves to one another just a few moments ago; 9 is that correct? 10 A. T hat1s correct. 11 Q. You know that I'm an attorney and that I 12 represent Nevada Power Company in the lawsuit that they've 13 brought against Monsanto, Westinghouse and General Electric 14 Company; is that true? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Have you had your deposition taken on any 17 other occasions? 18 A. I've been deposed before. 19 Q. All right. And do you know the purposes of a 20 deposition? 21 A. I think so. 22 Q. 'All right. Well, let me go over some of the 23 purposes that I have in taking your deposition. One, I 24 want to know the information you have regarding the 25 questions that I ask. Second, if I ask you those same -5CON CANNO N & JA-EQER 1 questions at the time of trial in this matter, I'll expect 2 you to give the same answers, and if you don't I'll ask you 3 to explain yourself. Do you understand that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q . If during the course of this deposition I ask 6 any questions that you don't understand, will you tell me? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q . And if at any time during the course of this 9 deposition you want to take a break, just let us know and 10 we'll accommodate y o u . All right? 11 A. Thank you. 12 Q. In what other cases have you had your 13 deposition taken? 14 A. I was deposed in the Sturgeon litigation case 15 about a chlorophenyl spill. 16 Q . When was that? 17 A. When was the deposition? 18 Q. Yes. 19 A . I d o n 't -- 20 Q. Roughly. 21 A. I d o n 't recall. Mid 1980's. Early to mid 22 1980's. 23 Q. All right. Any other times? 24 A. I think I've been deposed on one or two PCB 25 issues, but it's been so long ago that I d o n 't recall what -6CONC ANNON & JAEGEft 1 the issues were. 2 Q . All right. How long ago was this that you had 3 your deposition taken in cases involving PCB issues? 4 A. I d o n 't know. 5 Q. In the last five years? 6 A. N o . More than t e n . 7 Q. All right. Did you have your deposition taken 8 case referred to as One Market Plaza? Do you know? 9 A. I don't kno w. 10 Q. Have you had your deposition taken in 11 California? 12 A. No. 13 Q . Where was your deposition taken? 14 A. In St. Louis, I believe. 15 Q. Do you know what the issues were regarding the 16 PCBs that were the subject of the lawsuit in which you gave 17 testimony? 18 A. No, I don't. 19 Q. Have you testified in trial before? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Which trials have you testified in? , n r^enyi spill. A. The Sturgeon litigation, chlorop*1 2 23 Q. Any other case? 24 A. No. 25 Q. All right. Tell me about your educational -7------------------------ CON CANNON & JAEGER------------------------ 1 background 2 A. After high school? 3 Q- Y e s . 4 A. After high school I went to Kenyon College in 5 Ohio, got a bachelor's degree there. Then I went to Purdue 6 University, got a master's degree in chemistry and then 7 went to Texas A & M University and got a Ph.D in analytical 8 chemistry. 9 Q. Your master's degree was in chemistry from 10 Purdue? 11 A. Y e s . 12 Q- Any particular type of chemistry? 13 A. No. Just generally. 14 Q. And what did you get your bachelor1s degree 15 in? 16 A. It was in chemistry also. 17 Q- And was that an MS from Purdue? 18 A. Yes. Yes, an MS. 19 Q. All right. When did you get your Ph.D.? 20 A. 1968 . 21 Q. How old are you now? 22 A. Fifty-one. 23 Q- W h a t 's your residential address? 24 A. 1242 Chavaniac, C-h-a-v-a-n-i-a-c, Drive, 25 Ballwin, B-a-l-l-w-i-n, Missouri, 63011. -8--------------------- CQNCANweiJ a J M G i m -- 1 Q. What did you do for work following completion 2 of your doctorate? 3 A. I came to work for Monsanto and began work as 4 an analytical chemist. 5 Q. What is the field of analytical chemistry? 6 A. The field of analytical chemistry is the 7 science of determining what materials are present and how 8 ''much of those materials are in a given material, given 9 sample. 10 Q. Would that be true whether the sample was 11 organic or inorganic? 12 A. The statement is tru e. The methodologies 13 would be vastly different. 14 Q . In your work as an analytical chemist did you 15 work with both organics and inorganics? 16 A. Probably. 17 Q. Did you focus on one or the other? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Which? 20 A. Organics. 21 Q. Did you receive your Ph.D. with an emphasis 22 in organics? 23 A. N o . 24 Q . What was yourfirst job title with Monsanto? 25 A. Senior researchchemist. -9CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q. What did you do as a senior research chemist? 2 A. I worked in the general field of organic 3 analysis, utilizing gas chromatography and mass 4 spectrometry as the analytical tools. 5 Q. What chemicals were you searching for, if any, 6 when you were working with gas chromatography? 7 A. Wide variety of different -- I worked on a 8 wide variety of different projects, worked with many 9 different materials, almost everything that Monsanto made. 10 Q . Was there a period of time when you did some 11 work relating to polychlorinated biphenyls? 12 A. I did some, yes . 13 Q. When did you first begin work -- I'm going to 14 refer to them as PCB s. Is that how you know them as well? 15 A. Fine. 16 Q . When did you first do some work with PCBs? 17 A. I probably did some work with PCBs in 1968, 18 certainly no later than 1969. 19 Q . What work did you do with PCBs in 1968? 20 A. I was developingsome analytical methods for 21 determining PCBs. 22 Q. Were there analytical methods for determining 23 PCBs prior to your beginning your work in 1968? 24 A. Yes, there were. 25 Q. Were you lookingfor differentanalytical - 10 --------------------- C0NCANW6N a -JAEGSB---------------------- 1 techniques or methods? 2 A. Yes. Primarily for ways of confirming. 3 Q. All right. And did you -- Were you 4 successful? 5 A. Yes'. 6 Q . Okay. And what analytical method were you 7 able to -- Well, did you develop an analytical method to 8 test the presence of PCBs? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q . And what analytical method was that? 11 A. An analytical method for testing for the 12 presence of PCBs. I d o n 't recall that it had a particular 13 title. 14 Q. All right. How did it differ, if at all, from 15 gas chromatography? 16 A. It utilized gas chromatography. 17 Q. All right. How did it utilize it? 18 A. The gas chromatography was the piece of 19 equipment at the front end that was performing the 20 separation that allowed us to measure the PCBs. 21 Q. What did you do next as part of your 22 analytical method for determining presence of PCBs? 23 A. Well, we linked up the gas chromatograph to a 24 mass spectrometer. 25 Q . For what purpose? 11- COWCANMON S JADQEft 1 A. For getting a very sensitive readout, if you 2 will, of the PCB ions, the PCB molecules that might be 3 present in the samples, 4 Q. Did your method end after the sample was run 5 through mass spectrometry? 6 A. Did the method end after the samples were run 7 through mass spectrometry. Well, we had to do calculations 8 when y o u 1re done. I'm not sure I understand the context of 9 the question. 10 Q. You didn't do any further tests on the 11 material after it was run through the mass spectrometry? 12 A. I don't recall doing anything else, but it 13 would be hard to say unequivocally that I didn't do 14 something else. I could have weighed a sample, for 15 example. 16 Q. What was the purpose in your developing this 17 method? 18 A. To be able to look for PCBs in environmental 19 matrices. 20 Q. Who requested or directed that you do that? 21 A. I don't recall exactly. My management 22 requested I do that, but I d o n 11 recall who in particular 23 in my management. 24 Q. Who was your management? 25 A . Wel l , my boss at the time Was D r . Martin - 12 - COM ANMO N & JA-BEft 1 Dietrich, D-i-e-t-r-i-c-h. His boss was Dr. Robert Keller. 2 Q . Did those two individuals comprise your 3 management team? 4 A. They were the primary ones that I interfaced 5 with, yes. 6 Q. And prior to beginning your work with Monsanto 7 had you done any work with PCBs? 8 A. No. Nothing related to chemistry, no. 9 Q . Did you do any other work relative to PCBs as 10 a senior research chemist at Monsanto? 11 A. Did I do any other work related to PCBs? 12 Q. As a senior research chemist. 13 A. As a senior research chemist. I don't recall. 14 Q . What was your next jobtitle? 15 A . Research specialist. 16 Q. What work -- Well, first of all, when did you 17 become a research specialist? 18 A. In the early 1970's. I don't recall the year. 19 Q. What work did you do as a research specialist? 20 A . I did a lot of the same kind of work, just was 21 given a little bit m o r e ;independent responsibility, still 22 doing GC-mass spec wor k. 23 Q . Were you still working with PCBs as a research 24 specialist? 25 A. Yes. - 13 - CONCANNON a JAEGDR 1 Q. * Did you do any work with PCBs -as a research 2 specialist other than working with gas chromatography and * 3 mass spectrometry? \ 4 A. Well, as I said earlier, there were incidental jJt 5 'things that one had to do in order to do 'that, such as i 6 measuring -- such as weighing materials. So , y e s , I did a 7 number of incidental things of that type. 8 Q. Were the incidental things that you did with 9 PCBs all related to your work with the gas chromatography 10 and mass spectrometry? 11 A. As best as I can recall at this time. / 12 Q . And how long were you a research specialist? it 13 A. Three years maybe, plus or minus a year . 14 Q . What was your next job title? 15 A, I think I was promoted to group leader at that 16 time - 17 Q . What work did you do as a group leader? 18 A. Supervised a number of chemists and 19 technicians working on a variety of projects, mostly 20 related to organic analytical chemistry. 21 Q . When did you become a group leader? 22 A. I don't recall. 23 Q. Would it have been around 1974? j i i ; 24 A. '74, '75, '76, somewhere in there. ,i 25 Q. What work did you do as a groupleader other - 14 - C O N C A N N O N -6 JAEGER 1 than work related to organic analytical chemistry? 2 A. We did do some bio -- At that time I was also 3 in charge of some environmental experiments, 4 biodegradation, that type of thing. 5 Q. Were you supervising chemists and technicians 6 regarding biodegradation studies? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q . And what chemicals were you studying as part 9 of the biodegradation studies? 10 A. Well, again, a wide variety. Most of the 11 products that Monsanto organic division made at that time. 12 Q. Were you studying either MCS-10' -- Well, let 13 me ask it this way. Were you studying the biodegradation 14 of MCS-1016? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Were you studying the biodegradation of 17 Aroclor 1016? 18 A. I'm not sure of the distinction between those 19 two. 20 Q. I'm not either, and I'm now going to ask you 21 if there is one. Have you ever heard of Aroclor 1016? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Have youheard ofMCS-1016? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And t hey'rethe same chemical? - 15 CONCAHNON & JAEGER 1 A As far as I know 2 Q. As i understand it, the MCS-1016 preceded the 3 label Aroclor 1016 . Is that correct? 4 A. I'm sorry. Say it one more time. I want to 5 make sure I have the answer correct. 6 Q. Arochlor 1016 was first named MCS-1016? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q . Why did that particular chemical begin with 9 the name MCS-1016? 10 A. Originally? 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. Well, the particular research unit that 13 developed that material named all of their materials MCS 14 followed by some serial number, and so it was named that 15 way because the product before it was named MCS-1015 and 16 the product after it was named MCS-1017. Just a sequential 17 number that was chosen and entered into a logbook. 18 Q . Were you familiar with the chemical properties 19 of the different Aroclors produced by Monsanto? 20 A. I have vague recollection of them. I c a n 't 21 say I'm familiar with them, no. 22 Q. You've heard of Aroclor1242? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Arochlor 1254? 25 A. Yes. - 16 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q. Arochlor 1260? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you know what the twelve refers to in that 4 numbering system? 5 A. Twelve refers to 6 Q. Twelve biphenyl r 7 A. Well, no. Twelve 8 molecule. 9 Q. And what do the last two digits refer to? 10 A. The degree of chlorination. 11 Q. Does -- Excuse me. Did Aroclor 1016 also 12 contain twelve atoms in the biphenyl? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q, Do you know why it did not have a number that 15 began with the number twelve? 16 A. Well, when we took it to our customers they 17 said they'd rather have the name stay the same because 18 their people were used to working with the MCS-1016 19 designation and so they asked us to keep the name the same 20 Q. Which customersasked you to do that? 21 A. I don't know. 22 Q . Did any customers ask you to do that? 23 A. No. 24 Q . Who told you that the customers were ask ing 25 that the product be named 1016? - 17 CONCANNON & JAEQEft1 1 A. I don't recall who told me that. Fairly 2 common knowledge around that time. 3 Q. And Aroclor 1016 has what percent chlorine? 4 A. I don't recall. Arochlor 1016? Is that what 5 you said? 6 Q. Y e s . 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. Do you know whether it has between forty-one 9 and forty-two percent chlorine? 10 A. I know it's within the range of forty or 11 forty-five. I don't know beyond that. 12 Q. And do you know why the last two digits of 13 1016 did not reflect its chlorine content? 14 A. Yes. I think I answered that earlier. 15 Q. And what -- 16 A. The customers basically said they were -- 17 their employees were familiar with that designation and 18 they asked us to keep the name the same. 19 Q . If you were to determine who in Monsanto had 20 those discussions with customers, who would you expect that 21 person to be? 22 A. Our marketing people. But I don't know- -- I 23 don't have a name for it . Someone in our marketing 24 department. Could also be marketing technical services. 25 Q. What is the difference between marketing arid - 18 eOHCANNON Q JAEGER 1 marketing technical services? 2 A. The marketing technical services person is 3 usually technically trained and has a higher degree of 4 technical training than a marketing person and then they 5 sort of are the go-between between the customer -- the 6 marketing function, the customer and the technology 7 functi o n . They111 provide guidance to people in terms of 8 how to use products. 9 Q- In 1974, '75, '76 when you were promoted to 10 group leade r was there a bu siness group within Monsant 0 11 that worked with PCBs ? 12 A. Yes , there was 13 Q. Was the market ing part of the bus iness gr oup? 14 A. The marketing done by the busines s group, if I 15 could paraphrase 7 16 Q. Yes 17 A. Yes 18 Q. And within the busines s group was there a 19 person from marketing, Monsanto's marketing department? 20 A. There were probably several. 21 Q. All right. And within the business group was 22 there someone from the marketing technical area within 23 Monsanto? 24 A. Again, probably several. 25 Q. Did you have any discussions with Monsanto - 19 C O N C A N N O N 1& JAEGER 1 customers regarding PCB products manufactured by Monsanto 2 during the 19701s? 3 A. At various times I was involved in meetings 4 with customers. 5 Q . And which customers did you have any contact 6 with during the 1970's regarding PCBs manufactured by 7 Monsanto? 8 A. I can recall several different meetings with 9 GE, Westinghouse, Outboard Marine. 10 Q. Where were these meetings? Well, let me ask 11 it this way. When was the first meeting you recall that 12 you attended where someone from General Electric was 13 present and the subject was in whole or in part PCBs? 14 A. I'll have to guess. I guess early '70's. I 15 don't recall exactly w hen. 16 Q. Do you recall what the nature of the meeting 17 was? 18 A. No, I don't. 19 Q. Do you recall any topic at all that was 20 discussed at that meeting? 21 A. Not the first meeting, no. 22 Q. Okay. And when was the second meeting? 23 A. I don't know. I remember one meeting 24 basically. 25 Q. Okay. Tell me about the meeting you remember. - 20 - CQWeANH&N 6 JAEOER 1 A. Okay. There was a meeting -- 2 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Well, wait a minute. Is 3 that the question? Object to the form of the question 4 then. 5 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Tell me who you remember 6 being at the meeting where you were present and General 7 Electric was present and the topic was in whole or in part 8 related to PCBs. 9 A. I don't know the names of the people that were 10 there. 11 Q. Okay. Tell me when it occurred. 12 A. Early '70's is my best -- Early to mid '70's 13 is my best recollection. 14 Q. Where did it take place? 15 A. It took place in St. Louis at Monsanto's 16 headquarters. 17 Q . At the corporate headquarters? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. On campus? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. In- which building? 22 A. I don't recall which building. 23 Q . Do you recall whether Monsanto's attendees 24 included someone from its medical department? 25 A. No, I don't recall. - 21 COHOA-NM O N -ft- JAEGER 1 Q. Do you recall whether Monsanto had anyone in 2 attendance from industrial hygiene? 3 A. I don 11 recall. 4 Q. Who, if anyone, do you recall attending that 5 meeting from Monsanto? 6 A. I can't at this point. Let me think about 7 that for a minute. It would be speculation on my part. 8 Q . And what do you remember being discussed at 9 the meeting relative to PCBs? 10 A. Well, we talked about a PCB problem that 11 General Electric was having at Hudson River. 12 Q . Why did you attend that meeting? 13 A. Well, because I was the group leader at that 14 time of the group that was functioning in the environmental 15 property of PCBs. 16 Q . What was the result, if any, of that meeting? 17 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form. 18 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Go ahead and answer. 19 MR. FEATHERSTONE: You can answer, if you 20 understand it. 21 A. Could I hear the question again, please. 22 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) What was the result, if any, 23 of that meeting? 24 A. We exchanged information. 25 Q. And who did you exchange information with? - 22 COW CANHON & J-A-BGER 1 A. The representatives from General Electric 2 exchanged information with the folks from Monsanto and vice 3 versa. 4 Q. Do you recall any one particular individual 5 from GE attending that meeting? 6 A. I recall one individual just because he 7 happened to sort of stand out as a very dynamic personf but 8 I don't recall his nam e. 9 Q . Do you recall the information that Monsanto 10 gave to GE at the meeting? 11 A. Specifically, n o . We gave them a lot of 12 health and safety information about our products. 13 Q. Tell me about the health and safety 14 information you gave GE about your products at the meeting 15 we 1ve been discussing. 16 A. I d o n 11 know what else there is to say. We 17 told them about what we knew about our products in terms of 18 their environmental properties, their behavior. 19 Q. What did you tell them were the environmental 20 properties of your products? 21 A. I don't recall at this time. We told them 22 what they were, I mean, the facts that were the result of 23 years of study. 24 Q . Who presented that information? 25 A. I probably presented some and I -- and whoever - 23 ONCANNQN & JAEGJ3R 1 else was there from Monsanto presented some. I just can't 2 recall who the individuals were. 3 Q. Did you distribute written materials to GE as 4 part of that meeting? 5 A. I don't recall. 6 Q. Where did you get your information regarding 7 the health and safety of Monsanto's products containing 8 PCBs? 9 A. Partly from the work that the group that I was 10 part of had done and then partly from our files, partly 11 from the literature. 12 Q . What work had your group done that you shared 13 with GE representatives at this meeting regarding health 14 and safety of Monsanto products containing PCBs? 15 A. We had done biodegradation experiments, as we 16 discussed, as I mentioned earlier. 17 Q. Anything else? 18 A. Soil mobility studies. 19 Q. Anything else? 20 A. A lot of analytical measurements on 21 environmental samples, analytical work to support 22 toxicological studies. 23 Q. Anything else? 24 A. That's all that comes to mind at the moment. 25 Q. All right. And what analytical measurements - 24 CONCAMNON & M G E R 1 on environmental samples did you report to GE that your 2 group had done during this -- when you were'making your 3 presentation at this meeting? 4 A. I don't recall the details at this time. 5 Q. What do you recall generally about that? 6 MR. FEATHERSTONE; We llf before you answer 7 that, Doctor, may I hear the second to last question, the 8 question that Mr. Bradly is referencing in his last 9 question. 10 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the second to 11 last question.) 12 Q . (By M r . Bradley) What do you recall generally 13 about the analytical measurements on environmental samples 14 that you reported to GE at this meeting? 15 A. Well, we had a lot of data and we presented 16 the data to them. 17 Q . And what did the data state or support? 18 A. I don't know -- Are you asking what the data 19 supported? I don't know what the data supported. The data 20 basically showed that you could biodegrade a lot of PCBs. 21 Some of it wouldn't biodegrade very fast. 22 Q . Did any of your analytical measurements on 23 environmental samples that you discussed with GE at this 24 meeting relate to anything other than the biodegradation of 25 certain of the Aroclors? - 25 MCANNON S JAEGER 1 A. I don't recall at this time. 2 Q. And which of the Aroclors, if any, did you 3 believe biodegraded when you made your presentation to GE 4 at this meeting? 5 A. Would you ask the question again, please. 6 Q. Let me ask it this way. At this meeting did 7 you report to GE that certain of the Aroclors biodegraded? 8 A. As I mentioned earlier, all -- as far as I 9 know, some components of all the PCBs biodegraded. 10 Q- And as far as you know, do all of the 11 components of some of the PCBs biodegrade? 12 A. Yes. Some components of all PCBs biodegrade. 13 Q. And which are those? 14 A. I couldn't tell you at this time. There's 15 seventy-five isomers or something like that. 16 Q. Well, let me approach it this way- When you 17 had the meeting with G E , did your data show that Aroclor 18 1242 biodegraded? 19 A. Under some conditions, I believe Aroclor 1242 20 biodegraded. 21 Q- The entirety of it, not just some of the 22 isomers? 23 A. I d o n 11 recall. I know a lot of the isomers 24 did. 25 Q- And what did your data show regarding Aroclor - 26 GONGfrMH ON & J-frEGER 1 1016. Did it biodegrade? 2 A. Yes. It was more biodegradable than 1242. 3 Q . And did it biodegrade in its entirety? 4 A. I believe it came close to it, if not all the 5 way. 6 Q. Do you know whether some of the isomers of 7 Aroclor 1016 have been shown to not biodegrade? 8 A. I don't recall any. 9 Q. What information regarding analytical work to 10 support toxicological studies did you give at this meeting? 11 A. I don't recall specifically. 12 Q . Tell me generally what you recall about that. 13 A. Well, I suspect we told them about studies 14 that we had done and what we found in the feeding samples, 15 feeding study samples. 16 Q . And which feeding samples were those? 17 A. Whatever we had done up to that time. 18 Q. Were those the ones that Monsanto had 19 submitted to Industrial Biotest Laboratories? 20 A. I d o n 't know. Could have bee n . 21 Q. Which files did you review prior to making 22 your presentation at this meeting regarding the health and 23 safety of PCBs? 24 A. What meeting? I'm not sure what meeting. 25 Q . Talking about the same meeting. - 27 ----------------------- CON CANNON a JAEGER------------------------ VWi'AX U t l J. u A \ 4 1 L I h J V i V J i A, 1 A. What files did X review. I don't recall . 2 ,__specifically what files I reviewed. Probably the files in 3 my possession at the time that I thought were relevant to 4 the meeting. 5 Q. And did you review files from any other 6 department or division within Monsanto? 7 A. I don't recall doing so. 8 Q . How did you develop a file regarding health 9 and safety of PCBs prior to this meeting? 10 A. I don't recall that I had a file. 11 Q . I thought you indicated that you reviewed your 12 file. 13 A. I reviewed my file, but you just qualified the 14 file further and said it was a health and safety file. 15 Q. All right. So, prior to this meeting you 16 didn't have a file on the health and safety of PCBs? 17 A. ' I guess that depends on what you mean by 18 health and safety. 19 Q . Well, I'm going to ask you then what you meant 20 by health and safety when you indicated that you gave GE 21 health and safety information regarding your products at 22 this meeting. What did you mean when you -23 A. If in fact I said health and safety at that 24 meeting then that was an improper statement and it's in 25 fact probably due more to my job responsibilities today - 28 CUNCANNUW & JAHUEk 1 than it was then. By health and safety, I believe what I 2 meant was the environmental properties. Health and safety 3 is an acronym that has sort of grown up over time. 4 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Let's go off the record. 5 (Thereupon, a brief colloquy was had between 6 counsel, off the record.) 7 Q . (By M r . Bradley) What literature did you 8 review prior to giving a presentation at this meeting with 9 General Electric that we've been referring to? 10 A. I don't know. 11 Q . Would it have been literature that was 12 contained in your file? 13 A. Probably. i 14 Q . Did you search out additional literature? 15 A. Additional to what was in my file? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. Not that -- I don't recall. 18 Q. Was there a system for providing you 19 information regarding the environmental properties of PCBs 20 that were studied by other researchers? 21 A. I don't believe we had a system, but we had 22 regular communication, monitored the literature closely. 23 Q. How did you monitor the literature? 24 A. By going to thelibrary. Well, actually we 25 had a publication out of our library called Contents Review - 29 GONCANNON a JAEGER 1 which each month gave us a listing of the table of contents 2 of each journal that came into the library so we could very 3 quickly screen through those journals and see what was 4 relevant and what wasn't. i 5 Q. Did you know what journals the library 6 subscribed to that had its contents reviewed in this , 7 monthly content review publication? 8 A. I didn't personally/ but it was published j 9 information. 10 Q . Wellf for example -- 11 A. I mean, it was in the front of each monthly 12 edition. It listed the journals, here are the journals 13 that are contained in this mon th's edition. 14 Q . And was there ever a period of time when you 15 asked the library to order additional journals? i | 16 A. Probably. 17 Q . And how would that work? 18 A. If I asked them to order one and I gave them a 19 charge number, they would order it. 20 Q. And how would it happen that -- Well, let me 21 ask it this way. I assume that there were occasions when 22 you knew the library didn't have a particular journal, that 23 you thought it ought to have? 1 24 A. I don't recall ever feeling that w a y . 1 25 Q . Well, do you recall ever asking the library to - 30 - CONGftW HON -ft JAEGER 1 order a journal? 2 A. To order a journal? 3 Q. Yes. , ! 4 A. If you're talking -- If you mean order one 5 specific journal -- 6 Q Let me rephrase that question. I could tell 7 that you re being more specific than me, which is good. 8A 9Q 10 journal? Okay. III Did you ever ask the library to su bscrib'e to a 11 A. I don 11 think s o . 12 Q. Which library did you go to, if any, to review 13 information regarding the environmental properties of PCBs? 14 A. The environmental library at Monsanto. 15 Q. And what is the environmental library? 16 MR. FEATHERSTONE: What was it then? 17 MR. BRADLEY: Yes. 18 A. Well, I'm talking about the Monsanto 19 information center. I think that's the official name of 20 the library 21 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Did you ever research the 22 properties of PCBs in any library other than the library 23 known as the Monsanto information center? 24 A. There was a Monsanto -- There was a library 25 called the toxicology library. I believe I probably looked - 31 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 at some things there. There was another library called the 2 engineering library. I probably did some research there. 3 Q . Did you ever review any documents from the 4 medical library? 5 A. I don't recall whether I ever reviewed the 6 documents per se or n o t . 7 Q. The medical library was in the medical 8 department of Monsanto on campus back in -- when you were 9 the group leader. Is that your understanding? 10 A . Tha t 1s probably accurate. 11 Q. And where was the engineering library when you 12 were group leader? 13 A. Probably in F building on Monsanto 1s campus.j 14 Q. And when you became group leader where was the 15 toxicology library? 16 A. Probably the same place as the medical 17 library. 18 Q. Was it different than the medical library? 19 A. I don't know. You brought up the medical 20 library. I brought up the toxicological laboratory. 21 Q. Was the toxicology library within the floors 22 used by the medical department of Monsanto? 23 A. Probably. I'm not sure. 24 Q . What other meetings, if any, have you attended 25 where GE was present and the subject matter was in whole or - 32 60NC ANH 0M fi JAEGER i i i. 1 in part relating to PCBs? 2 A. What other meetings where the subject -- Well, 3 I went to visit the GE Hudson Falls facility to help them 4 with that problem that we mentioned earlier . 5 Q. What was the purpose of your visit? 6 A. To give them technical consultation on PCBs on 7 the Hudson River. 8 Q. Was the technical consultation relating to 9 removing PCBs from the Hudson River? 10 A. Primarily, y e s . 11 Q . And did you give themtechnical assistance in 12 reducing PCBs to the Hudson River? 13 A. I don't know that. 14 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Let me get the question 15 again, please. 16 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 17 question.) 18 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form of the 19 question. 20 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Did you understand that 21 question? 22 A . Well, I was ready with an answer. I don't 23 know whether I understood the question or not, but I was 24 going to try to answer the question. 25 Q. Okay. Go ahead. - 33 CONCANNON- 8 JAEGER 1 A. I was going to say that I don't know that my 2 presence there really helped them clean up the river, but I 3 did provide them with suggestions and particularly with 4 respect to the properties of the materials. 5 Q. All right. Prior to your giving them 6 technical consultation, do you know what amounts of PCBs, 7 if any, they were -- GE was discharging into the Hudson 8 River? 9 A. No, I don't. 10 Q . Do you know generally the range of PCBs that 11 GE was discharging into the Hudson River? 12 A. No, I don't. 13 Q. Do you know the range of PCBs GE discharged 14 into the river following your giving GE technical 15 consultt ion? 16 A. No. 17 Q . Did you write a reportto GEregarding your 18 technical consultation on the issue of their release of 19 PCBs into the Hudson River? 20 A. I don't remember. 21 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form. 22 A. I d o n 't recall doing s o . 23 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Haveyou attended any 24 meetings with Westinghouse -- Well, let me back off for a 25 moment. What other meetings, if any, have you attended - 34 CON C&NNO M & JABC3ER 1 with GE where the subject matter was in whole or in part 2 relating to PCBs? 3 A. I d o n 11 recall any others with GE. 4 Q. Have you attended any meetings with 5 Westinghouse personnel where the subject matter was in 6 whole or in part relating to PCBs? 7 A. I can recall one meeting with Westinghouse. 8 Q . And when did that meeting occur? 9 A. In the same general time frame that we've been 10 talking about, plus or minus a year or s o . 11 Q. '74 to '76 roughly? 12 A. Roughly. But I'm not sure that it's within 13 that two year time frame. 14 Q. Was that meeting also at the St. Louis 15 corporate headquarters? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q . On the campus at Monsanto? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q . Who do you recall, if anyone, attending 20 besides yourself for Monsanto? 21 A. Tom Gossage, G-o-s-s-a-g-e. 22 Q. What was his title at the time this meeting 23 took place? 24 A. I don't know. He was something akin to a 25 business director/ but I don't recall the exact title. - 35 'CON eAWNOH a JAEGER 1 Q. Who else, if anyone, do you -- Who else, if 2 anyone, do you remember attending the meeting from 3 Monsanto? 4 A. Ralph Munch was there. Ralph was a senior 5 scientist. 6 Q. Anyone else from Monsanto? 7 A. Those are the only ones that I'm sure were 8 there. 9 Q. Do you recall anyone from Westinghouse who 10 attended that meeting? 11 A. No, I don't. 12 Q . What was the subject matter of the meeting? 13 A. We were looking for PCB replacements, 14 discussing PCB replacements. 15 Q . At that time was Aroclor 1016 on the market? 16 A . I don 11 know. 17 Q . Were there any conclusions reached about PCB 18 replacement products as a result of this meeting with 19 Westinghouse? 20 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form. 21 A. My recollection is that no conclusions were 22 reached at that point in time, that particular meeting. 23 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Were you ever involved in 24 developing replacement fluids for PCBs? 25 A. Yes. - 36 60N C A N N 0 N & JAEGEIt 1 Q. Other than working on biodegradation studies 2 as a group leader, did you do any other work, either 3 directly or as a supervisor, relating to organic analytical 4 chemistry of PCBs? 5 A. Well, I mentioned earlier that we had done 6 soil mobilization studies. 7 Q. Anything else? 8 A. Well, I also mentioned earlier that we looked 9 at residues in samples from feeding studies. 10 MR. BRADLEY: Would you read that answer back, 11 please. 12 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 13 answer.) 14 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) What is a residue from a 15 feeding study? 16 A. A residue is the amount of material that's fed 17 to the animal that might still be in the feed or it might 18 be in the animal or it might be in the biological samples 19 from the animal, feces, urine. 20 Q . What work did you do regarding samples from 21 feeding studies as part of your work as a group leader? 22 A. We measured the amount of PCBs that were 23 present. 24 Q. In what -- In animals? 25 A. Well, in these -- the various matrices that I - 37 C&NCftNNO N S-- JAEGER 1 just mentioned. 2 Q. And did the matrices come from animal organs? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q . And where did you obtain the animal organs? 5 A. Prom the laboratory that did the work. 6 Q . And was it a Monsanto laboratory that did the 7 work? 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. There were various laboratories . Did that include a Monsantolaboratory? I d o n 't know. 11 Q. Did it .include IBT? 12 A. At that point in time I don't know. Obviously 13 we did some studies at IBT, but I don't know -- I can't 14 recall if the samples that I was working on came from IBT 15 or not. 16 Q. Have you ever visited -- Excuse me. Did you 17 visit the IBT labs in the 1970's? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Do you know from Monsanto who did visit the 20 IBT labs in the 1970's? 21 A. Not looking at PCB issues. 22 Q. And do you know of anyone from Monsanto who 23 visited IBT who might have -- who went into what was called 24 the swamp room? 25 A. The swamp room. No, I don't. - 38 - '9W A N N 0 H - fi JA BSBR 1 Q. Have you ever heard of the swamp room? 2 A. No. 3 Q. What was your next job title at Monsanto 4 A. Research group leader two. 5 Q- What work did you do as a research group 6 leader two? 7 A. Essentially the same duties as before. Just 8 had a slightly broader range of people working for me. 9 Q. Did you have responsibility for any additional 10 work relating to PCBs other than what you've already told 11 us about? 12 A. It was probably during this time frame that we 13 developed a method for looking at impurities in a more 14 quantitative fashion. 15 Q . Which impurities were you looking for? 16 A. Well, basically we were looking for any 17 organic impurities that might be present. 18 Q. Why were you looking for organic impurities? 19 A. So we'd know what the composition was of the 20 product. 21 Q. What led you to conduct the studies though? 22 Had somebody reported certain organic impurities and you 23 were following up on it or -- 24 A. Work had been reported in Europe. 25 Q . And what work was reported in Europe regarding - 39 OONCANNOH S JAEGER 1 organic impurities and PCBs? 2 A. A group reported finding low levels of 3 chlorinated dibenzofurans. 4 Q. Is there a difference between a chlorinated 5 dibenzofuran and a polychlorinated dibenzofuran? 6 A. Well, only the degree of chlorination. A 7 chlorinated dibenzo -- No. For the purposes I think of 8 what w e 1re trying to accomplish here, they're synonymous. 9 Q. When was it that the work was reported in 10 Europe regarding their finding chlorinated dibenzofurans? 11 A. Early '70's. I don't recall exactly when . 12 Q . Do you recall who it was that reported the 13 chlorinated dibenzofurans from Europe? 14 A. Vos is the name of the principal, V-o-s. 15 Q. Do you know whether Vos is a doctor, Ph.D. 16 doctor? 17 A. N o , I don't know. 18 Q. Do you know whether it is Dr. Vos or Mr. Vos? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Do you know whether Vos used different 21 analytical techniques for determining impurities than you 22 were using to determine -- in your work with gas 23 chromatography and mass spectrometry? 24 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Let me just -- 1*11 object 25 to this line of questioning on grounds of relevance and for - 40 ------------------------ CON CA N N ON & JAEGER------------------------ 1 the other reasons set forth in the documents exchanged . 2 between the parties regarding furans and dioxins. Having 3 said that, do you agree that if you examine this witness on 4 these subjects that it's not a waiver of my posit ion 5 regard ing the ;proper scope of discovery evidence in this 6 case, in other words , we do it with all reservat ion of 7 rights, your side and my side? 8 MR. BRADLEY: On the subject matter of furans? 9 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Y e s . 10 MR. BRADLEY: Fine. 11 A . I'm sorry. I've forgotten the question n o w . 12 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 13 question.) 14 A. I'd have to think for a little bit to remember 15 just what techniques he was using. I don't know if he was 16 using the same techniques or not at that time. 17 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) What techniques did you use 18 when you began looking for organic impurities in the PCBs 19 manufactured by Monsanto? 20 A. We used a column chromatography separation 21 technique to isolate the PCBs from any dibenzofurans that 22 might be present and then we followed that up with some 23 type of gas chromatography, either chromatography with 24 electron capture detector or mass spectrometry detector. 25 Q. How did that differ, if at all, from the work - 41 CON CANNONI St JAEEK I*1 - - t h e t e c h n i q u e y o u w e r e u s i n g t o d e t e r m i n e t h e p r e s e n c e oz. and q u a n t i t i e s o f P C B s ? o.J A . W e l l , f o r t h e p r e s e n c e o f t h e PC Bs y o u j u s t 4 measure - - you can measure very t r a c e amounts w itho u t 5 h a v i n g t o g e t r i d o f a n y l a r g e c h l o r i n a t e d m a t r i x . When 6 y o u ' r e l o o k i n g f o r an i s o l a t e d i m p u r i t y in t h e PCB i t s e l f , 7 i t ' s a much more d i f f i c u l t c h a l l e n g e . I t ' s l i k e l o o k i n g 3 for a needle in a h a y stack , for example. 9 Q . Why i s i t a mo r e d i f f i c u l t c h a l l e n g e ? 10 A . B e c a u s e y o u ' v e g o t a l l t h e c h l o r i n a t e d PCBs 11 p r e s e n t t h a t ' s i n t e r f e r i n g w i t h l o o k i n g f o r t h e m i n o r 12 i m p u r i t y . 13 0 . I s t h e r e a r e a s o n t h a t M o n s a n t o d i d n ' t p e r f o r m 14 s t u d i e s t o d e t e r m i n e o r g a n i c i m p u r i t i e s i n PCB p r o d u c t s 15 p r i o r t o t h i s r e p o r t o u t o f E u r o p e by V o s ? 15 MR. F E A T H E R S T O N E : O b j e c t t o t h e f o r m o f t h e 17 q u e s t i o n . 18 A . I ' m n o t a w a r e t h a t we h a d a n y r e a s o n t o 19 s u s p e c t d i b e n z o f u r a n m i g h t be p r e s e n t , c h l o r i n a t e d 20 d i b e n z o f u r a n . 21 Q . (By M r . B r a d l e y ) Do y o u know w h e t h e r V o s 22 s u s p e c t e d i t b e f o r e he d i d t h i s s t u d y t h a t y o u r e f e r r e d t o ? 23 A . T h a t w o u l d b e s p e c u l a t i v e on my p a r t . I d o n ' t 24 know. 25 Q . And d i d y o u f i n d i m p u r i t i e s i n - - E x c u s e me. - 42 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Did you find organic impurities present in the different 2 ,_P.CBs manufactured by Monsanto? 3 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Do we have a time period on 4 this? 5 MR. BRADLEY: As research group leader two. 6 THE WITNESS: Shall I answer that? 7 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Yes. If you can put a time 8 period to this. We still haven't established one. 9 A. I was trying to put some time periods on it. 1.0 The work -- When we found out about the report from Vos, we 11 set up some experiments to see if we could duplicate that 12 work and we were able to reproduce that method. This is in 13 the early '70's time frame somewhere. What we found was 14 basically the same as what he had reported, that samples of 15 the. German product and the French product contained 16 dibenzofuran, but we didn't find any in the Monsanto 17 material. 18 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Was there ever a time during 19 your work as research group leader two that you were able 20 to find the chlorinated dibenzofuran as an organic impurity 21 in any of the PCBs manufactured by Monsanto? 22 A. Y e s . . 23 Q . And when was that? 24 A. Mid 17 0 1s is my best recollection. 25 Q. Why was it that you were able to find it in - 43 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 the mid '70's but you did not find it in the early '70's? 2 A. We made improvements in our analytical 3 methods. 4 Q. What improvements did you make? 5 A. Well, we learned how to run those absorption 6 -- We learned how to use different materials in the 7 absorption column to get more selectivity. 8 Q. Which PCB products manufactured by Monsanto 9 were you able to determine during your work as research 10 group leader two contained chlorinated dibenzofurans? 11 A. Arochlor 1254 is the only one that I can 12 recall for sure. 13 Q . Were you able to determine during your work as 14 research group leader two whether some of the Aroclors 15 manufactured by Monsanto did not contain chlorinated 16 dibenzofurans? 17 A . Wel l , throughout the time period we were 18 getting negative -- we were analyzing and not finding it in 19 a number of the products. 20 Q. And have you continued your work -- Well, let 21 me ask are you still a Monsanto employee? 22 A . I a m . 23 Q . Following your work as research group leader 24 two, did you have any further work where you determined the 25 presence or absence of chlorinated dibenzofurans in PCBs - 44 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 manufactured by Monsanto? 2 A. No. In my next job I had broader supervisory 3 responsibilities and wasn't directly directing research of 4 this type. 5 Q. What was your next job? 6 A. Manager of environmental sciences. 7 Q. When did you become manager of environmental 8 sciences? 9 A. Maybe 1978, plus or minus a year. 10 Q. 11 sciences? What did you do as manager of environmental 12 A. I was responsible for the section that did 13 aquatic biology experiments, that did environmental fade 14 experiments, provided the analytical support for those 15 activities. 16 Q. And did the aquatic biology experiments relate 17 to products manufactured by Monsanto that contained PCBs? 18 A. Not that I recall. 19 Q. And did the enviornmental fade experiment that 20 you were working with as manager of environmental sciences 21 relate to products manufactured by Monsanto that contained 22 PCBs? 23 A. I don't believe we were doing any work of that 24 type at that time. 25 Q. What job did you have next? - 45 - CoTR:a n n O n & Ja e g e r 1 A. Let's see. Product acceptability manager. 2 Q. when did you become product acceptability 3 manager? *A1 A. About the 1980 time frame. 5 Q. What products, if any, were you responsible 6 for as the product acceptability manager? 7 A. Plasticizers. 8 Q . When you became product acceptability manager 9 did the plasticizers under your direction contain PCBs? 10 A. N o . 11 Q . Did you do any work with products containing 12 PCBs as product acceptability manager? 13 A. No. 14 Q. What was your next job title? 15 A. Product safety manager. 16 Q. When did you becomeproduct safety manager? 17 A. Approximately 1985 . 18 Q . In your work as product safety manager did you 19 have any responsibility for products manufactured by 20 Monsanto that contained PCBs? 21 A. No. 22 Q . What's your next job title? 23 A. Product safety director . 24 Q. For what types of products? 25 A. All products made by Monsanto chemical group. - 46 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q. Pardon? 9Ls A . A l l p r o d u c t s made b y t h e M o n s a n t o c h e m i c a l 3 group. 4 Q. When d i d y o u b e c o m e p r o d u c t s a f e t y d i r e c t o r ? 5 A. 1980 - - I'm s o r r y . 1991. 6 Q. What j o b t i t l e d i d you h a v e n e x t ? 7 A. T h a t' s i t . 8 Q . G o i n g b a c k f o r a moment t o GE and Hudson 9 F a l l s , do you r e c a l l what recom m endations you gave to GE? 10 MR. F E A T H E R S T O N E : I t was H u d s o n R i v e r . 11 Q . (By M r . B r a d l e y ) H u d s o n R i v e r . Wha t i s i t , 12 H u d s o n R i v e r o r H u d s o n F a l l s ? 13 A . H u d s o n R i v e r i s t h e name o f t h e r i v e r . Hu ds o n 14 F a l l s i s t h e name o f t h e t o w n . I ' m s o r r y . C o u l d we h a v e 15 t h e q u e s t i o n r e p e a t e d . 16 Q . I ' m g o i n g t o a s k t h e q u e s t i o n r i g h t n o w . Do 17 y o u r e c a l l w h a t a d v i c e y o u g a v e , i f a n y , t o G e n e r a l 18 E l e c t r i c a t t h e i r H u d s o n F a l l s p l a n t r e g a r d i n g c o n t a i n m e n t 19 o f PCBs fr om e n t e r i n g t h e Hudson R i v e r ? 20 A . W e l l , my p u r p o s e f o r b e i n g t h e r e w a s n ' t r e a l l y 21 t o t e l l t h e m do t h i s , d o n ' t do t h i s , t h a t s o r t o f t h i n g . 22 My p u r p o s e f o r b e i n g t h e r e was t o be a r e s o u r c e p e r s o n f o r 23 t h e m t o t a l k a b o u t w a t e r s o l u b i l i t y o f t h e p r o d u c t s , make 24 s u r e t h e y w e r e a w a r e o f w h a t t h e w a t e r s o l u b i l i t y w a s , make 25 s u r e t h a t t h e y w e r e a w a r e o f t h e v o l a t i l i t y , and so I - 47 - (JUNCAINiNUN & JAhibtK 1 didn1t give them any particular direction in terms of if 2 you do this you'll clean it up, if you don't you won't-. I 3 just helped them understand what the problems were. 4 Q. And when you discussed with them water 5 solubility, did they know about PCBs relative to water 6 solubility? 7 A. Yes. They already had a pretty good 8 understanding of that. 9 Q. How about volatility. When you had your 10 discussion with GE at the Hudson Falls plant, did the GE . 11 personnel know about PCBs relative to volatility? 12 A. Yes, they did. 13 Q. Were there any other areas that you -- 14 regarding the properties of PCBs that you had discussions * 15 with at G E 1s Hudson Falls plant? 16 A. Well, we talked about biodegradation. I 17 mentioned that earlier. 18 Q . Anything else? 19 A. We talked about analytical methods. They were 20 having difficulty with some measurements in their plant 21 facility. 22 Q . Anything else? 23 A . That*s all I recall. 24 Q. What were they measuring in their plant 25 facility? - 48 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 A. Well, they probably measured a lot o f 'things, . 2 but what they were asking me about were the PCB 3 measurements. 4 Q. Were they taking PCB measurements of products 5 manufactured by GE? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Were they taking measurements of soil around 8 the GE plant? 9 A. I don't know that either. 10 Q . Were they taking measurements of PCBs in the 11 Hudson River? 12 A. They were takingmeasurements in the Hudson 13 River, yes. 14 Q . And they had their own analytical lab set up 15 to do that there in the GE Hudson Falls facility? 16 A. Yes, they did. 17 Q. Do you know who ran the GE Hudson Falls 18 laboratory facility that was testing for PCBs in the Hudson 19 River? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q . Who was that? i 22 A. Bob Stenger. 23 Q . I 'm going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1428 24 and ask you to review that for me. Have you reviewed it? 25 A. I'm about half way through. - 49 - CUN^ANiMUW & JAUtdtiK 1 Q. Okay. Let me know when you're'done. 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. Is this a letter authored by you? 4 A. It appears to be, yes. 5 Q. And does that look like your signature? 6 A. Yes, it does. 7 Q. This is an October 29, 1975 -- would you call 8 it a letter? 9 A. I'd call it a memo. 10 Q- -- memo to W.B. Papageorge? 11 A. Yes . 12 Q- And I take it you wrote this letter on or 13 about October 29, 1975? 14 A. Y e s . 15 Q- And is this -- Do you know whether you kept a 16 copy of this memorandum in your business files at Monsanto? 17 A. No, I don't know. 18 Q. Is this the sort of memorandum that you would 19 keep in your business files at Monsanto? 20 A. It's the general type that one would keep, 21 yes. 22 Q. All right. And in the first sentence it says, 23 "GE is aware of the chlorodibenzofuran issue and might 24 bring it up in their defense at the November hearings. 25 What is -- Excuse me. What was the chlorodibenzofuran - 50 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 issue that you were referring to? 2 A. I don't recall at this time what I was 3 referring to then. 4 Q . What were the November hearings that you were 5 referring to in the first sentence of Exhibit 1428? 6 A. I don't recall that either. 7 Q. Were you in your work ever able to detect 8 chlorodibenzofurans in Aroclor 1016? 9 A. Not that I recall. 10 Q. I'm going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1491 11 and ask you to review that for me, please. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. Is this a document that you maintain in your 14 files at Monsanto? 15 A. It's the type of document that would have been 16 maintained. 17 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Let me just state it on the 18 record and he can correct m e . Plaintiff's Exhibit 1491 we 19 stipulate is a letter from Dr. Mieure to Dr. Stenger dated 20 October 24, 1975. We stipulate it's signed by D r . Mieure 21 and it was sent to D r . Stenger. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. (By Mr.Bradley) Dr. Mieure,I've shown you 24 Plaintiff's Exhibit 895. Have you had a chance to review 25 that? - 51 UUN<JANNu W it JAtJ^tiK 1 A. I'm about half way through. . 2 Q. All right. Is that a May 12, 1975, letter 3 that you wrote to Dr. Leonard Guarrria? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q . And he's with the U .S .Environmental 6 Protection Agency? 7 A. Tha t 's correct. 8 Q. And do you recall whether you wrote this -- I 9 know the letter is dated May 12th, 1975. Did you write it 10 on or about that date? 11 A. I would assume on or about. I don't recall 12 writing it, no, but I would assume on or about. 13 Q . And is this the sort of document that you 14 would maintain in your files at Monsanto? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q . Was it the regular -- your regular practice to 17 write letters like this as part of the work you did at 18 Monsanto? 19 A. I would write letters discussingscientific 20 issues with scientists in organizations outside of 21 Monsanto. 22 Q. What was the March 13 version of the PCB 23 criteria document for the toxic pollutant effluent 24 standards referenced in the first sentence of this exhibit? 25 A. I don't know. - 52 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q. I'm now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit . 2 1249 and ask you to review that for me. Apparently that 3 doesn't -- Have you seen that document before? 4 A. I don't recall having seen it. 5 Q. I'm now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 1513 and ask you to review that for m e . Have you had a 7 chance to review that? 8 A. Yes. I've skimmed through that. 9 Q. Is this a letter - excuse me 10 interdepartmental memo written by you to W . B . Papageorge 11 dated December 3, 1974? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Is that your signature at the bottom? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Does this appear to be atrue and accurate 16 copy of the interdepartmental memo you wrote to Mr. 17 Papageorge on December 3rd, 1974? 18 A. It appears to be. 19 Q . I'll ask you -- Let me try one more time. Do 20 you recall whether you wrote this shortly after talking by 21 telephone with John Roach of the FDA regarding a paper he 22 presented at the national meeting of the Association of 23 Official Analytical Chemists? 24 A. I don't recall that, no, but that's what the 25 first sentence basically says. - 53 LUNCANWUN & JAEGER 1 Q. And is this the sort: of document that you . 2 .would maintain in your files at Monsanto? 3 A. It's consistent, yes. 4 Q. And is it also consistent with the regular job 5 responsibilities you had at Monsanto to prepare documents 6 of this sort? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. I'm now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 9 1511 and ask you to review that. Have you had a chance to 10 review this document? 11 A. Very quickly skimmed it. 12 Q. Is this a copy of a letter written to you by 13 C.F. Jelinek, Ph.D. December 23rd, 1974, which attaches a 14 copy of a presentation made at the October 1974 AOAC 15 meeting? 16 A. It appears to be, y e s . 17 Q . And do you recall whether this is a document 18 that you've seen before? 19 A. Yes. Absolutely. 20 Q . And is this a true and accurate copy of the 21 letter received by you from Dr. Jelinek and the 22 presentation made at the October '74 AOAC meeting? 23 A. It appears to b e . I 24 Q . And was it part of your work at Monsanto to 25 maintain copies of these kinds of letters in your work at - 54 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Monsanto? .2 A . Yes. 3 Q. And did you in fact maintain this in your 4 filing system within Monsanto? 5 A. I d o n 't recall. 6 Q. Is this the sort of document that you would 7 imagine maintaining in your filing system at Monsanto? 8 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form. 9 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Is this the sort of document 10 that you would have kept -11 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Does this help. We agree 12 it was in our files. 13 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) I'm now going to show you 14 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1560 and I don't have a copy of it so 15 we'll have to have a copy made but if you'd review that for 16 me, please. Have you had a chance to review this exhibit? 17 A. Briefly. 18 Q- And what is it? 19 A. It appears to be minutes of a meeting. 20 Q- And what's the date of the meeting? 21 A. December 1st, 1972. 22 Q. And were you an attendee at the meeting? 23 A. I'm listed as being present, y e s . 24 Q. And was it the regular practice of Monsanto to 25 record minutes of meetings? - 55 c o n Ca n n n & Ja e g e r 1 A . Some meetings did, some didn't. 2 Q . And does this appear to be an accurate representation of what was discussed at that meeting that 4 happened December 1, 1972? 5 A. I really can't comment on that. 6 Q . Was it part of your regular practice at 7 Monsanto to keep copies of minutes of meetings? 8 A. No. 9 Q . Do you know whether it was the practice at 10 Monsanto to keep a record in the -- of the meetings, 11 minutes of meetings as part of the ordinary course of 12 Monsanto 1s business activity? 13 A. The author of the report would probably keep 14 it, perhaps someone to whom it was addressed, not all the 15 attendees. 16 Q . Do you know -- Are you listed as someone who 17 received that? 18 A. I'm listed as someone who was present. 19 Q . May I see that. The first sentence of this 20 exhibit indicates that discussions were opened by Dr. R.E. 21 Keller who asked R.A. Ligett to review MCL plans for 22 present and future PCB work. R.A. Ligett presently 23 commented that they presently planned for further PCB 24 biodegradation studies and that emphasis would be placed 25 upon analytical support for the Pond and EVOP plant process - 56 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 studies. Do you recall whether in December of 1972 2 Monsanto had no further plans to conduct PCB biodegradation 3 standards? 4 A. Well, we did biodegradation studies for quite 5 a period of time after tha t . 6 Q. Who was R.A. Ligett in December of '72? 7 A. I'm not sure what his job w a s . He was -- He 8 headed up a section in the European laboratories of 9 Monsanto. 10 Q. In the corporate structure he was not someone 11 who reported to you ; is that correct? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. And in the corporate structure he was not 14 someone that you reported to? 15 A. That's also correct. 16 Q. The last sentence of this exhibit says the 17 remainder of the meeting was spent -- Excuse me. The last 18 two sentences says the remainder of the meeting was spent 19 reviewing current and future MICC PCB defense work and an 20 outline of the subjects reviewed follows. Do you know what 21 the PCB -- Excuse me. Do you know what the future MICC PCB 22 defense work was in December of 1972? 23 A. N o , I d o n 't . 24 Q. I'm now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 25 419 and ask you to review that for me. Have you seen this - 57 CUNCANNUN & JAUUK 1 exhibit before today? 2 A. I don 11 know. 3 Q- This is a letter or interoffice memo to J.R. 4 Savage from W.B. Papageorge dated October 26, 1970? is that 5 correct? 6 A. T hat1s correct. 7 Q. In October of 1970 what position did J.R. 8 Savage have? 9 A. I really don't know. 10 Q. Was he a Monsanto employee? 11 A. Yes. Well, he was a Monsanto employee at some 12 point in time. I assume he was in this time period. 13 Q . And on or about October 26 of 1970 had you 14 conducted work which indicated the presence of naphthalene 15 in biphenyl and anthracene or phenanthrene and dibenzofuran 16 in Santowax R used in the manufacture of Aroclors? 17 A. Well, certainly the first part of that, the 18 naphthalene and the anthracene and phenanthrene. 19 Q. You had not -- Well, how about the second part 20 of it? This exhibit indicates that you had located 21 dibenzofuran in Santowax R used in the manufacture of 22 Aroclors. Did your work on or before October 26, 1970, 23 indicate of the presence of dibenzofurans in Santowax R 24 used in the manufacture of Aroclors? 25 MR. PEATHERSTONE: Object to the form of the - 58 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 question 2 HR. BRADLEY: W h a t 1s wrong with the form? 3 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Well, the first part of 4 your question talks about presence, uses some words other 5 than indicates. I think you may have said found. I can't 6 remember. 7 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Well, let me rephrase it 8 then. On or before October 26, 1975 -- Excuse me. On or 9 before October 26, 1970, did your work determine the 10 presence of dibenzofuran in Santowax R used in the 11 manufacture of Aroclors? 12 A. No. Not in this context. This was later 13 found to be incorrect. 14 Q. Did you do any work prior to October 26, 1970, 15 to determine the presence of dibenzofuran in Santowax R 16 used in the manufacture of Aroclors? 17 A. 18 know. Prior to this time was your question. I don't 19 Q. Do you recall speaking with W.B. Papageorge 20 on or before October 26, 1970, regarding your work 21 involving the presence of dibenzofuran in Santowax R used 22 in the manufacture of Aroclors? 23 A. I don't recall speaking with him, no. 24 Q. Do you recall writing to any -- any reports on 25 or before October 26, 1970, regarding the presence of - 59 - u u n CajnNON 5 JAEUER 1 dibenzofuran in Santowax R used in the manufacture of . 2 Aroclors? 3 A. I don't recall writing any reports, no. 4 Q. Do you recall anything at all about work you 5 may have done on or before October 26, 1970, regarding the 5 presence of dibenzofuran in Santowax R used in the 7 manufacture of Aroclors? 8 A. Well, I'm sure that I communicated with these 9 folks, but you're asking me to remember how I communicated 10 and I don't remember that. 11 Q. Do you recall whether you did communicate to 12 folks, however you communicated with them, on or about 13 October 26, 1970, regarding work you had done to determine 14 the presence of dibenzofuran in Santowax R used in the 15 manufacture of Aroclors? 16 A. It's obvious communication took place but, n o , 17 I don't remember the specific communications. 18 Q. I don't recall if I asked you this before. 19 Had you seen this exhibit prior to today? 20 A. I don't recall seeing it . 21 MR. BRADLEY: That's all the questions that I 22 have. 23 CROSS EXAMINATION 24 QUESTIONS BY MR. FEATHERSTONE: 25 Q. I have a couple. With regard to Plaintiff's - 60 LUNCANNUN T"JAEGER 1 Exhibit 419, in October of 1970 or thereabouts what was the 2 ..chief chemical constituent of Santowax R? 3 A . Terphenyl. 4 Q. Was Santowax R a biphenyl? 5 A. Was it, no. 6 Q . And where this document, Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 419, says Santowax R used in the manufacture of Ar o d o r s , 8 was there an Aroclor line made up of terphenyls? 9 A. For a very brief period of time,y e s . 10 Q. Now, in response to Mr. Bradley's questions 11 and again with respect to Plaintiff's Exhibit 419, I 12 believe you stated that the reference to dibenzofuran in 13 Santowax R was later found to be wrong? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. All right. What did you mean when you said 16 that? 17 A. Well, it was a preliminary finding at the time 18 that I reported it and we believed to the best of our 19 knowledge that it was correct but later we learned that 20 something else was interfering. 21 Q. All right. Something else was interfering 22 with what? 23 A. With the analysis. Something else that had 24 the same molecular weight was interfering with the analysis 25 when we thought we were finding the dibenzofuran. - 61 (JUNUANNUN & JAEGER 1 Q. So, something else was interfering with the 2 analysis for dibenzofuran? 3 MR. BRADLEY: Object to the form. Go ahead 4 and answer. 5 A. Y e s . Something else was interfering with the 6 determination, the supposed identification of dibenzofuran. 7 Q . (By M r . Featherstone) And did you later 8 determine what the interfering substance was? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q . What was it? 11 A . Methylbiphenyl. 12 Q. And what does that mean then with regard to 13 how this statement in Plaintiff1s Exhibit 419 was 14 incorrect? 15 MR. BRADLEY: Objection to the form. 16 A. Well, we later learned that what's indicated 17 in here after the words anthracene or phenanthrene, we 18 later learned that that was not dibenzofuran that was 19 present in the Santowax R. It was methylbiphenyl. 20 Q. (By Mr.Featherstone) Ismethylbiphenyl 21 something different than dibenzofuran? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q . Is it different in its chemical structure? 24 A . Y e s . 25 Q. Is itdifferent in its physical and chemical - 62 - CONCANNON & JAEGER W^ -- ---- -- -------- --------- 1 properties? .2 A. Somewhat different, y e s . 3 Q- Let me show you what's been marked as Exhibit 4 A to your deposition and ask you to look at that document 5 and tell us whether this is a document that you helped 6 write. 7 A. I'm listed as coauthor, y e s . 8, Q. Okay. And there is a reference to Orville 9 Hicks ; is that correct? 10 A. Y e s . That's correct. Orville Hicks. 11 Q- Dr. Kaley? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And Vic Saeger? 14 A. D r . Saeger, y e s . 15 Q. And did these gentlemen work with you at the 16 time of the drafting of Exhibit A, the writing of Exhibit 17 A? 18 MR. BRADLEY: Object to the form of the 19 question. 20 A. I assume they did. I'm looking for a date. 21 They certainly worked for me at a point in time when we 22 were doing a lot of work on PCBs. 23 MR. FEATHERSTONE: No further questions. 24 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 25 QUESTIONS BY MR. BRADLEY: - 63 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q. How much later was it that you determined that 2 it was not dibenzofuran in Santowax R? 3 A. Probably just a few months. I don't retcall 4 just how long. 5 Q. And.what did you do differently to determine 6 it was not dibenzofuran in the Santowax R? 7 A. We just refined the analytical methods 8 further. 9 Q. Do you know whether anyone has ever found 10 dibenzofuran in Santowax R? 11 |A. I don 11 kno w. Ii 12 IQ. You indicated that you were an author of i 13 Exhibit A? 14 A. X appear to be, yes. 15 Q. On page five it says biodegradation represents 16 a mechanism for removing PCBs from the environment. Is 17 that a statement that you agree with? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Is that the sort of information you gave to 20 General Electric and Westinghouse during the meetings that 21 you described earlier in your deposition? 22 A. I suspect we gave them much more specific 23 information than that. That would just be a generality. 24 Q . Do you recall whether you informed GE and 25 Westinghouse during those meetings that PCBs get removed - 64 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 from the enviornment through biodegradation? . 2 A . Do I recall specifically, n o , I don't. 3 0. Do you recall whether you held that belief 4 before you had the meetings with GE and Westinghouse? 5 A. I believe I did. 5 MR. BRADLEY: I have nothing further. I do 7 want a copy of Exhibit A. That's it. 8 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Reserve signature. 9 10 James Mieure 11 Subscribed and sworn to before me this _____ day of 12 ___________ , A .D ., 1993. 13 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES ___ ___________ 14 15 16 Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 65 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 STATE OF MISSOURI ) ) SS .2 .COUNTY OF ST. LOUIS ) 3 I, Sharon M . Watson, a Notary Public within and for 4 the State of Missouri, duly commissioned, qualified and 5 authorized to administer oaths and to take and certify to 6 depositions, do hereby certify that pursuant to Notice in 7 the civil cause now pending and undetermined in the 8 District Court of the United States, within and for the 9 District of Nevada entitled NEVADA POWER COMPANY, 10 Plaintiff, -vs- MONSANTO COMPANY, e t . a l ., Defendant, to be 11 used in the trial of said cause in said Court, I was 12 attended at the law offices of Messrs. Husch & Eppenberger, 13 100 North Broadway, in the City of St. Louis, State of 14 Missouri, by Ralph A. Bradley, attorney for the Plaintiff; 15 by Bruce Featherstone, attorney for Defendant Monsanto; by 16 Laurie Basch, attorney for Defendant GE; and by JAMES 17 MIEURE, the witness, in said office on March 29, 1993. 18 The said witness, JAMES MIEURE, being of sound mind 19 and being by me first carefully examined and duly cautioned 20 and sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing 21 but the truth in the case aforesaid, thereupon testified as 22 is shown in the foregoing transcript, said testimony being 23 by me'reported in shorthand and caused to be transcribed 24 into typewriting, and that the foregoing pages correctly 25 set out the testimony of the aforementioned witness, JAMES - 66 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 MIEURE, together with the questions propounded by counsel 2 and the remarks and objections of counsel thereto, and is 3 in all respects a full, true and complete transcript of the 4 questions propounded to and the answers given by said 5 witness ? and that said testimony, so transcribed, was 6 subscribed to by the witness on the ______ day of 7 ____________________ , A. D., 1993. 8 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not of counsel nor 9 attorney for any of the parties to said suit, nor related, 10 nor interested in any of the parties or their attorneys. 11 WITNESS MY HAND and Notarial Seal, qiven this 12 day of f A. D. , 1993, at St . Louis, Missouri. 13 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES MAY 2, 1996 . 14 15 16 / Li SHARON M. WATSON, 17 Notary Public, within and for the State of Missouri 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 67 - COtoANNOlJ & JAEGER i 1 Concannon and Jaeger General Co urt Reporters 2 705 Olive Street S t . Louis, Missouri 63101 March 29, 1993 4 5 6 Mr. Bruce Featherstone Kirkland & Ellis 7 8 Re: Nevada Power Vs. Monsanto 9 Dear M r . Featherstone: 10 This letter, incorporated as the last page of D r . Mieure's deposition, taken on March 29, 1993, will serve as 11 notice to you that his testimony is now ready for his reading and signing of same. You will recall you indicated 12 a preference for him reading his deposition, rather than waiving signature. 13 Enclosed is your copy of the deposition, along with 14 errata sheets and a copy of the original signature page. Please have Dr. Mieure read through the deposition, make 15 any necessary changes on the errata sheets, sign the signature page and have his signature notarized. Then mail 16 the errata sheets and signature page back to me at the above address. 17 Thank you for your cooperation in this regard. 18 Sincerely, 19 20 21 SHARON M. WATSON Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 25 - 68 - CONCANNON & JAEGER