Document zzRd53g8M4Q1xjrrNerjL0pNa

MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 1 1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OP THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 3 ---- oOo----- . 4 5 6. 7 8 9 1 10 RICHARD YEAGER and SHIRLEY YEAGER, Plaintiffs, -vs- UNION CARBIDE CORPORATION, entered Defendant. . 11 MAR 0 8 2004 12 13 cm No. 312960 j ' . ) i r1s \> 14 15 DEPOSITION OF CARLO MARTINO 16 VOLUME I S 17 Friday, May 4, 2001 \ 18 . 19 b (Pages 1 through 93) --000-- ' : < ; ; 20 21 22 Reported by: Jd 111' 23 24 SHERRY SHERRY 25 CSR NO. 5619 SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-444]" ; i' CALNORTH REPOR'iDIG SERVICE SC-ELEC-12200 MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 2 1 INDEX ' 2 3 WITNESS: . 4 5 CARLO MARTINO - Volume I 6 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE 7. PROCEEDINGS 5 8 MS. SHINING .9 " 9 10 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBITS*: 11 Description ' 12 13 1415 16 1 Summary of Mr. Martino's background 2 Article on the rise of Bakelite and other plastics in the U.S. ` in the 1930s from an Internet site . 11 12 i : *) 17 18 ; 19 20 ic .' . { 21. ' i 22 A 23 (Exhibits not received via fax during the course of the 1 24 deposition, and were discussed at the page indicated.) ; 25 SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 ; CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 3/5/2001 . Page 3 1 BE IT REMEMBERED that, pursuant to Notice of 2 Taking Deposition, and on Friday, May 4, 2001, . 3 commencing at the hour of 3:23 p.m. thereof, at BRAYTON 4 PURCELL, 222 Rush Landing Road, Novato, California 94945 5 before me, SHERRY SHERRY, CSR No. 5619, a Certified 6 Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of California, 7 there telephonically appeared 8 CARLO MARTINO, 9 physically located at the Marriott Hotel, 110 Davidson 10 Street, Somerset, New Jersey, was called as a witness by 11 the Plaintiffs herein; who, having been first duly 12 sworn, was thereupon telephonically examined and - 13 testified as is hereinafter set forth. 14 -----o0o--.- 15 LAW OFFICES OF BRAYTON PURCELL, 222 Rush 16 Landing Road, Novato, California 94945 by CAROLIN K. 17 SHINING, Attorney at Law, and by JOHN GOLDSTEIN, 18 Attorney at Law, appeared as counsel on behalf of the 19 Plaintiffs; and 20 LAW OFFICES OF HAIGHT, BROWN & BONESTEEL, LLP, 21 1620 26th Street, Santa Monica, California 90404 by . 22 BRUCE A. ARMSTRONG, Attorney at Law, telephonically 23 appeared as counsel on behalf of the Defendant. 24 LAW OFFICES OF KELLEY, DRYE & WARREN, 101 Park 25 Avenue, New York, New York 10178 by JONATHAN GLASSER, SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 Friday, May 4, .2001 . Page5 1 3:23 p.m. ' 2. --oOo-- 3. . (Reporter's Disclosure: I am an independent 4 Certified Shorthand Reporter representing CalNorth ' 5 Reporting Service. Neither CalNorth Reporting Service 6 , nor I have an ongoing contractual relationship with any 7 party or legal representative to this action. I am an 8 impartial and unbiased reporter. This is being - 9 disclosed with reference to California Certified 10 Shorthand Reporters' and National Court Reporters : 11 Association's Code of Professional Conduct and CalNorth 12 Reporting Service's interpretation of Business and 13 Professions Code 8025(c).) 14 - -oOo-- .. 15 ' ' PROCEEDINGS 16 . MR. ARMSTRONG: This is Bruce Armstrong. I 17 represent Union Carbide Corporation. 18 The deposition that we are here for today was 19 to start1"at three o'clock Pacific time. We came on line-' 20 about 3:15 and the reason that we were la-te is because a.ia w , . w i ;j .,.i u i a .iu j 21 we were in contact with the McKenna & Cuneo office " 22 getting some information with regard to the offer of . 23 proof which was to have been delivered to us by to 24 the McKenna & Cuneo law office by two o'clock today. 25 The information that we got indicates that SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 I CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 6 1 Mr. Martino, the deponent here today, leads the list of 2 the evidence that the plaintiffs intend to offer, and at 3 this point I need a copy of that document before I 4 proceed with the deposition. So we are delaying the 5 deposition to start at four o'clock today so that a copy 6 can be faxed to me so that I can take a look at it 7 before we commence the deposition. 8 MS. SHINING: Okay. This is Carolin Shining,"' 9 counsel for plaintiffs Richard and Shirley Yeager. 10 I have no problem faxing a copy of that to 11 Mr. Armstrong, although at his direction I faxed it to 12 Lisa Oberg, and I don't believe the two issues here are 13 related. 14 This deposition, while the information of 15 Mr. Martino is listed in our offer of proof, that . 16 information is going to be developed on 17 cross-examination and therefore the proceeding of this 18 deposition isn't related to what's in the offer of 19 proof. 20 I want to confirm with Counsel that I will not 21 be shorted time because of this delay, that previously 22 Miss Oberg stated in a letter that she was going to 23 unilaterally limit the length of the deposition to two 24 hours. I made no objection to that even though the 25 court did not impose that restriction due to the SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 7 j 1 interest of time, and I just want to ensure that I will I i 2 still at least at aminimum be entitled to take a full .3 two hour deposition of Mr. Martino. i MR. ARMSTRONG: You will be entitled to two j 5 hours at some' time. The two hour limitation was not set : 6 on by Miss Oberg's letter. That letter confirms the ) 7 telephone conversation with you and I in which we agreed j 8 that it would be a two hour deposition. ; 9 MS. SHINING: That's not true whatsoever. You ; 10 and I never discussed it. :: .11 MR. ARMSTRONG: May I finish? ': 12 MS. SHINING: Well I just don't want the record \ ' 13 to reflect misstatements. \ 14 MR. ARMSTRONG: Let me. complete my statement. j. 15 You get to complete your statements, too,-okay? . I think that's only fair. 17 MS. SHINING: Well just please don't -- j i I 18 MR. ARMSTRONG: The telephone conversation -19 after which I wrote the letter that was signed by Miss \ 'i j 20 Oberg and confirmed the telephone conversation that we ; 21 had and confirmed the number of parts of the telephone ; 22 conversation. .. . 23 The deposition was specifically set at three ; 24 o'clock today so that we would have an hour with the 25 offer of proof that the plaintiff was to serve on us ; y .in. j.i. uiiui.jMMji.lv SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 h ' 'm*'- ...................... CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 .' PageS ; 1 before the deposition started. The offer of proof was ! 2 actually served at 2:45 on the McKenna office, and I i 3 have been in contact with them but I have not yet seen 4 it. ' 5 MS. SHINING: Well -- ! j I 6 MR. ARMSTRONG: We need to see that before we ; 7 can proceed with the deposition and the two are not ' 8 unrelated as you have stated. 9 MS. SHINING: When will I get the -- : 10 MR. ARMSTRONG: They are related because, for \ 11 one thing, this case is over at, as it stands right now, j 12 to only subject to the court's acceptance of your offer ; ' 13 of proof and if that offer of proof is late or short and ' 14 the court refuses to accept it for either of those 15 reasons then you have no right to go forward with the ; 16 deposition at all. But we are going to be looking at i 17 the deposition, we will be back on the conference at j 18 about four o'clock,assuming that it's out here so that \ 19 I can look at it,and we will atthat time proceed with ; 20 the deposition. j 21 MS. SHINING: Well now you're not willing to . 22 even admit that you are going to start the deposition at i 23 all. So are you saying I will not get two hours of ; 24 deposition today? j 25 MR. ARMSTRONG: I think I told you that we will ; SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/3/2001 1 have the two hours. Page 9 i .2 MS. SHINING: Today. 3 MR. ARMSTRONG: But I want to see the document 4 that you submitted before the deposition starts. 5 . MS. SHINING: Well I can read you the single 6 sentence that refers to Mr. Martino right now and it 7 will take less than 60 seconds. 8 MR. ARMSTRONG: I need to see the document. 9 . MS. SHINING: So we will get two hours today. 10 MR. ARMSTRONG: Ms. Shining, this is the third 11 time that I have affirmed that you will get two hours 12 today. 13 MS. SHINING: Great. Thank you. 14 ' MR. ARMSTRONG: All right. We will be back on 15 the conference call at four o'clock, assuming that the 16 document is here. 17 MS. SHINING: Thank you. 18 MR. ARMSTRONG: Thank you. 19 ,,(Recess taken from 3:32 p.m. - 4:17 p.m.) 20 (All counsel stipulate to witness being sworn 21 telephonically.) 22 CARLO MARTINO . 23 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: 24 . EXAMINATION BY MS. SHINING 25 MS. SHINING: Q. Good afternoon. Or good .m..mu/jra varaw.*.. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 evening, Mr. Martino. Page 10 2 A. Good evening. 3 Q. I would just ask could you please identify all 4 the persons who are there in the room with you? Or 5 could maybe Mr. Armstrong do that? 6 MR. ARMSTRONG : Certainly. I am here. I'm 7 Bruce Armstrong. I represent Union Carbide. Jonathan 8 Glasser, G-l-a-s-s-e-r ,. is here. He also represents 9 Union Carbide, and Mr. Martino is here. 10 MS. SHINING: who is Mr. Glasser employed by? 11 MR. GLASSER: Kelley, K-e-l-l-e-y, Drye & 12 Warren. . 13 MS. SHINING: I have to keep you on speaker 14 phone because the court reporter's here, so if you could 15 speak up a bit. 16 - MR. GLASSER: Kelley, K-e-l-l-e-y, Drye & 17 Warren. 18 MS.. SHINING: And is that a law irm? 19 MR. GLASSER: Yes it is. ' 20 MS. SHINING: Where is that law firm located? 21 MR. GLASSER: New York City. * 22 "MS. SHINING: Do you have the address? 23 MR. GLASSER: Sure. 101 Park Avenue. 24 MS. SHINING: And phone number. 25 MR. GLASSER: My phone number is 212/808-7583. ' SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1. Page H MS. SHINDIG: Q. Mr. Martino, can you hear me.' 2 okay? 3. A. Yes, I can. .! 4 Q. I represent Richard and Shirley Yeager in the 5 case. Where are you physically today? What's the 6 address of the location that you're at? 7 A. That's Marriott Hotel in Somerset. Do you want 8 the actual address? " 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. 110 Davidson Avenue, Somerset, New Jersey 11 08873. . 12 Q. Okay. Do you have any documents with you, 13 Mr. Martino? 14 A. Only a summary of my background and that's 15 about it. 16 . Q. How long is the summary? 17 A. The summary of my background? 18 Q. Right. . 19 A. " About a page and a half but some of it probably-- 20 isn't relevant to your particular case. It involves my 21 experience in other plastic areas so it depends. I can 22 give it all to you or part. 23 Q. I would like to mark that as an exhibit. Do 24 you have any other documents with you today? 25 A. No. Oh, just an article on the rise of 'd'A SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 -.'MU L-.yU.U^VI* (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/200! Page 12 1 Bake1ite and other plastics in the U.S. in the 1930s, 2 which I happened to be on the Internet. 3 Q. Do you have a web address for that article? ! 4 A. No, I don't. : 5 Q- Okay. I would like to attach that as well to 6 the deposition. Are.those the only two documents you l 7 have with you? ' 8 A. Yes. .1 9 Q. Okay. Have you ever been deposed before? 10 A. No, I have not. 11 Q. Okay. Have you ever testified at trial? i 1 12 A. No. .1 'j 13 Q. You hesitated a little bit. Is there a. hearing 14 that might qualify as a trial? 15 A. No, I was just trying to.search my memory. 16 Q. Okay. Well the time I have now is 4:18 Pacific j 17 Standard Time and I understand that we're being limited 18 to two hours so I will try and be quick, but let me just j 19 . 20 21 give you a few of the ground rules of how a deposition operates 'r. . Do you understand that you're sworn to testify j f : 22 under oath under penalty of perjury of the laws of 23 California as if you were in a court of law? . 24 A. Yes-. 25 Q. And do you understand that if you need to take SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 .. Page 13 | 1 a break at any time you can just say so and we will 1 2 happily take a break and let you get a drink of water or | 3 stretch your legs? j 4 A. Okay. Thank you. ; 5 Q. And do you understand that particularly since ' 6 we're on the telephone your answers to my questions need \ 7 to be audible; shrugs, gestures cannot be recorded by : 8 the court reporter? .' ; 9 , A. Yes. . 10 Q. And do you understand that if you don't j 11 understand a question that I ask you can simply have me | 12 rephrase it and I will ask it in a different way? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. Have you takenany medications today 15 that would affect your ability to remember facts and 16 memories? jrrje r 17 A. . No. 18 Q. Can you thinkof anyother reason why we 19 shouldn't go forward today with the deposition? 20 A. No. . 21 Q. Okay. . Since I don't have the summary of your 22 background aind the article I would ask your counsel to 23 fax them to my office. If there's a way to do that 24 while the court reporter's still here she would 25 certainly appreciate it so that she can make these SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . . Page 14 | 1 exhibits to the deposition, and I 'would identify your . 2 background as Exhibit 1 and the article on Bakelite as l \ ? 3 Exhibit 2. V 4 Counsel, do you have a problem getting those i 5 faxed to ouroffice? 6 MR. ARMSTRONG: I don't think so except it's 7 going to require me to be out of the room, or require i 8 somebody out of the room. - ' : 9 MS. SHINING: Well perhaps Mr. Glasser can do ! 10 that while we continue because we're very short on time. j 11 MR. ARMSTRONG: We will get them faxed to you. 12 MS. SHINING: Okay. 13 Q. Mr. Martino, could you briefly tell me when 14 were you born? . 15 A. March 27th, 1927. , 16 Q. And. where were you bom? .17 A. Brockway, Pennsylvania: 18 Q. Is that Brockway with a "B"? 19 A. Yes. . 20 Q. And did you attend an institute of higher 21 learning? '- 22 ` A. Yes, I did. 23 Q. After high school where did you go to 24 A. Carnegie Mellon University. 25 Q. What was the highest degree you've obtained? J liA H J A ' .V . l" x 1 1. ^.l V , .V.'JUJl . 'll,1A IJ ..uj.u m.'h SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 iujh.iv" J.i-,. ... .... J.i .!; i" .i . CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 15 1 A. A B.S. degree in chemical engineering in 1948. 2 Q- You don't have a master's or a Ph.D.? 3 A. No, I do not. 4 Q- Do you have any business training? 5 A. Not academy business training. 6 Q. When did you begin your employment with 7 . Union -- actually let me take that back. Have you ever 8 worked for the Bakelite Corporation? 9. ' A. 1 started working for the Bakelite division of 10 Union Carbide Corporation in August of 1948. 11 . Q- Was that your first full-time employment after 12 college? 13 A. Yes, it was. 14 Q. Okay. How long did you work there? 15 A. Forty-seven years and eight months. 16 Q. Did you retire from Union Carbide's Bakelite 17 division? 18 A. It was no longer called the Bakelite division 19 when I retired. . 20 Q. So you retired from Union Carbide. 21 A. Right. 22 Q. When did it cease being called the Bakelite 23 division? 24 A. I don't recall when that happened officially. . 25 Q. Do you recall the decade in which it happened? SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 . (800) 547-4441 -----------r-; -.---- '% wry*'.' CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE !'!SCVTS337n&9?5!R*7^,FvS^SBSTSVJ33553SS(S5 MARTINO S/S/2001 1 A. What? Page 16 2 Q. Do you recall the decade in which it happened? 3 A. It would be a guess. I really don't know. 4 MR. ARMSTRONG: We don't want you to guess, 5 sir. If you can estimate, if you can do that that would 6 help you.out. 7 MS. SHINING: Q. Can you make an estimate of 8 the decade in which the name was not Bakelite unit 9 anymore? 10 A. Probably in the mid '70s. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 . A. That's when we went out of the business so it ! 13 would have to be about that. .14 . Q- Okay. What.was your title when you started at 15 Bakelite unit? , 16 A. I started as a production trainee. 17 Q. How long did you work in that role? 18 A. About nine months. 19 Q. And then what was your next title? 20 A. I then was transferred to research and 21 development and became a product development engineer in 22 the polystyrene section. . 23 Q. And then what was your next title? 24 A. I was -- 25 Q. I am sorry, how long were you a product J lillKff.UJU.f4mui.Ug5 SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800) S47-444I aii mu u.j.,1 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 development engineer? Page 17 2 . A. I was a product development engineer until .1958 3. when I was promoted to project scientist. : 4 Q. How long were you a- project scientist? 5 A. At that time I was assigned to the polyethylene 6 molded resin crew and 1 held that title for one year, 7 and then I was promoted to group manager in 1960 of the 8 Bakelite molding and laminating resins group. 9 Q. Did you hold that title until the Bakelite unit 10 ceased existence? 11 A. Just before. In 1970 I was promoted to senior 12 group manager of that same group, and in 1974 I was 13 transferred to the low density polyethylene product 14 . development group, and I think we went out of the . 15 business shortly after that. 16 Q. Okay. I've seen the use of initials called 17 "BM" and "BR." Do those refer to the wprds Bakelite 18 molding and Bakelite resin? 19 A. '`Yes, they do. -- 20 Q. Okay. Did you work -- were -- was there more 21 than two plants that would relate to the Bakelite . 22 division for Union Carbide to your knowledge? 23 MR. ARMSTRONG: Was it more than two plants? 24 MS. SHINING: Q. Do you understand the 25 question, sir? SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/5/2001 . 1 Page 18 A. More than two plants or do you want to know how 2 many plants? 3 Q. How many plants? 4 A. For molding materials there was only one plant 5 and that was in Bound Brook where I worked. For resins 6 there were -- there was one plant for some time, and 7 then a second one was built to make resins on the west 8 coast. 9 Q.. Was the resin plant located also in New Jersey? 10 . A. Yes, it was in the same location. 11 . Q. 12 .A- 13 Q- 14 A. Was there a plant in Bloomfield at all? That.was a research laboratory. Where was the plant in the west coast? Don't know the exact location. 15 Q. Did you work primarily in the Bloomfield 16 research plant? . 17 A. No I did not. 18 Q. Where did you primarily work? 19 A. We also had research there. 20 Q. Did you also work in the Bound Brook plant? 21 A. Yes. . 22 Q- How many researchers were there when you 23 started it this Bound Brook plant? 24 A. I would have to give you a rough estimate. 25 Probably SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800) 547-4441 ."kv 1 **. .`r. l.` .1 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 19 1 Q. Were there approximately 5,000 employees at 2 that time at the Bound Brook plant? 3 . A. No, not that many. 4 QJ Three thousand? 5 A. I wohld -- probably about 3300. I think that's 6 the highest number we ever reached. 7 Q. And approximately how many employees if you . 8 know were there at the Bloomfield plant when you started 9 with Union Carbide? 10 A. Again I have to give you a rough estimate but 11 would say between a hundred and 150. 12 Q. Did you ever visit the Belleville plant in 13 Canada? 14 A.. .Yes, 1 did. 15 Q. Do you know when that plant was started? 16 A. No I don't. 17 Q. Was there also a facility eventually opened in 18 Mexico? 19 A. Yes. A ' 20 Q. Did you ever visit that plant? 21 A. Yes, I did. . 22 Q- And do you know when that plant was started? 23 A. That -- no, I don't have a date for that 24 either. 25 Q. Okay. Do you have any patents to your name? "^ fWfSSST SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 A. Yes. . . Page 20 > 'i 2 Q. How many patents do you have? ; .. r 3 A. About six. \ .! 4 Q. Do you remember what years they were obtained ' 5 .in? ; 6 A. Not exactly. The most recent was issued after ; 7 I retired. That would be 1996 or '97. 8 Q. Do any of those patents relate to phenolic : 9 resins? 'j 10 A. No. 11 Q. So those were all post-Bakelite? ; < ; 12 A. Post and pre-Bakelite. > 13 14 . Q. A. Okay; When you say pre-Bakelite -' That was when I was in the polystyrene section. j j 15 Q. Okay. So what year -- so when you were in 16 research and development as a product development i j 17 engineer and as a project scientist you weren't involved i . 18 with Bakelite directly; is that correct? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. So you weren't involved with the product 21 Bakelite. 22 ' A. Not directly, no. 23 Q. Okay. So the first time you became directly ! ' 24 responsible for Bakelite products would have been when \ 25 you became a group manager in 1960? > i* SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 U..I vs'-J-.... v ~i|U. ..JJLJUJ. .. - I * .......... i 1 -HI" f k (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 - '. Page 21 * 1 MR. ARMSTRONG: I am going to object to the j .i 2 question on the grounds it is vague and ambiguous. What ; 3 do you mean by "directly responsible"? - ' .* 4 You cananswer thequestion ifyouunderstand `* 5 it, ' '' ; < i * i t 6 THE WITNESS: I was responsible for some of the 7. analytical services for Bakelitemoldingcompound in ; 8 1959. I didn't mention that. Prior to my assignment as. 9 manager of the Bakelite molding and laminating group I 10 was manager of the polymer technical service group for 11 all of the Union Carbide products we were making at the 12 time. Included in those products were the Bakelite 13 molding materials. 14 MS. SHINING: Q. Are you skilled in the use of 15 various types of microscopes? 16 A. Of micro what? . 17 Q. Microscopes. 18 A. Microscopes? 19 Q. *Right. . 20 A. No, I'm not. I only use the standard 21 electronic microscope. 22 Q. Is that a transmission electron microscope or a 23 scanning electron microscope? 24 A. I really don't know. It, you know, I never 25 looked at it that closely, nor did I use it that SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 T1VAI.,UAU.I>~,,l (800)547-4441 UlJ.li " UUV CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 22 j 1 frequently. ' j .i 2 Q. How often have you used an electron microscope? I . '> _ 3 A. Probably a half a dozen times. . j 4 Q. Do you remember the kind of image that the \ 5 microscope gave? Was it a photograph or was it a -- \ 6 A. No, it was just an enlargement of whatever I i 7 was looking at on the slide. i 8 Q. Was the microscope you're referring to owned by ; 9 Union Carbide? 10 A. Yes, it was. 11. Q. Where was that microscope located? . 12 A. In one of our analytical laboratories. 13 Q. And that's again in the Bound Brook plant? 14 A. Yes. '' ' '. 15 Q. Do you know if that microscope is still in 16 existence? 17 A. No I don't. 18 Q. Do you recall why you were using the electron 19 microscope for the half dozen times that you used it? 20 A. No I don't. It was part of -- I don't remember 21 the exact reason. 22 Q. "You don't recall if you were using it to look 23 at whether or' not asbestos fibers were being released 24 from Bakelite products? 25 A. No. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1. 2 Q. You don't believe you were? A. I don't think so. Page 23 ' 3 Q. Have you ever used a Polarized light microscope 4 to look at asbestos fibers as they are contained in 5 Bakelite products? . 6 .. A. No. ' 7 Q- Have you ever directed anyone on your staff to 8 use either an electron microscope or a Polarized light' 9 microscope to look at asbestos fibers as they are - 10 contained in Bakelite products? 11 A. I have not. . 12 0. Are you aware as to whether anyone at Union 13 Carbide either under your direction or not has used a 14 microscope to look at asbestos fibers as contained in . 15 Bakelite products? 16 . . A. The specific individual, no; that it was done. 17 yes. - 18 Q. How do you know that it was done? 19 A. 'Because of discussions I had with people in the-" 20 analytical division. 21 Q. How is the analytical division different from 22 what you were involved in? 23 A. The analytical division would do special 24 testing for us and they had the facilities to do 25 complete analyses if requested and on all products, not SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO ' 5/5/2001 1 just the fiakelite products. Page 24 : .j 2 Q. At the time that you recall learning that j 3 asbestos fibers were looked at who was in charge of the ' . 4 analytical division? . ; 5 A. I don't remember who was in charge. . , 6 Q. Do you recall the names of anyone who worked in ; 7 the analytical division? . 8 A. At that time? No. ..... 9 Q. Would you agree that the members of the . 10 analytical division would have a better understanding as ' s' 11. to -- well, strike that. j 12 So you don't have any --do you have any ; 13 understanding of the methods used by theanalytical : 14 division to view asbestosfibers inBakelite? < 15 A. Other than looking at them, the molded -- : 16 i 17 sections of molded products, no. Q. So you don't know if they used new ash ? | 18 techniques? ; 19 A. No. .1 20 Q. You don't know if they used a midget impinger . 21 to look at air samples released in the air? " 22 A. I doubt it because they didn't -- the work they > i 23 did had to be requested. 24 Q. So you don't know anything about the analytical i \ 25 procedures that they used. i i t I sm 11 i .i-Ms u ......... SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 jr.m.-jur.iwiiu.ijuaj--mi'-j.j'iu.w.-'t*' .w. . 1 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 1 . . Page 25 j A. No, and I can't say that they did use those . j 2 procedures for that purpose. j 3 Q. Did you ever see a written report from anyone | 4. from the analytical division on asbestos fibers and : 5 Bakelite? i 6 A. No I have not. ; 7 Q. So you would agree then that members of the j 8 analytical division would have more information than you i 9 wi,th regard to how asbestos fibers are contained within j 10 Bakelite. 11 MR. ARMSTRONG: Objection. Argumentative, and 12 I will instruct him not to answer. 13 You can rephrase: that question I will let him. 14 MS. SHINING: Q. Do the members of the 15 analytical division have more information than you do 16 with regard to their testing of asbestos fibers? 17 A. No they do not. 18 0. How -- well -19 A. As I stated r- 20 MR. ARMSTRONG: Just answer the question. 21 MS. SHINING: Q. Well I don't know that that 22 answer is responsive. If they gave him a report in an 23 oral report then certainly they did more than -- they 24 know what they did. You know, who knows what procedures 25 they used to give you that conclusion? . iUwmo'ii^ ^ w irsrr! .3P SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 . (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/7001 ' Page 26 j . -i 1 MR. ARMSTRONG: The answer was extremely j 2 responsive. Do you have another question? 3 MS. SHINING: Q. Okay. Who then at Union 4 Carbide knows what procedures were used by the 5 analytical division? ' > 6 A. I mentioned before that the analytical division : 7 did work for us at our request. We did not request such 8 tests as you are referring to in your questioning. ; 9 Q. Okay. What did you request that they do? ; 10 A. I did not request any specific test. We on | 11 occasion asked them to look at samples under a - ! 12 microscope and report back. We did not ask them what to * | < 13 look for _ . s 14 Q. Did you make that request, in writing? ' ; 15 A. There was a form that was filled out for any ! 16 requests we made o the analytical division. .' 17 Q. And who would you give that form to? 'J i j 18 A. To whoever was in charge at the time. j 19 Q. Who would know who would be in charge at the ! 20 time of that? j 21 . A. I have no idea. Most of those people retired. ; 22 Q- Do you know who is the current head of the j 23 analytical division? 24 A. Pardon me? [i j 25 Q. Do you know who currently is the head of the 1 i 'hhiuivU SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 \ CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . 1 analytical division? . Page 27 2 A. No I do not. The company was just bought by 3 Dow. 4 Q- Who was the head of the analytical division 5 when you retired? 6 A. I don't remember that either. 7 Q. Do you know how long the analytical division 8 keeps its records? * 9 A. No I do not. 10 Q. Do you know if the aMlytical division would 11 have kept any kind of written report regarding your 12 request? 13 . A. They always sent us a report back and that 14 would have been placed in the notebook of the person who 15 made the request. . 16 . Q- Would they have kept a copy? 17 MR. ARMSTRONG: Objection. Calls for 18 conclusion. Speculation. 19 Vou can answer, the question if you know. 20 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat that question, . 21 please? ' 22 MS. SHINING: Q. Would the analytical division 23 have kept a copy of the report that they sent to the 24 person who requested the- report? . 25 MR. ARMSTRONG: Same objection. . * _ . . SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 1 THE WITNESS: I don't know. Page 28 ; j 2 MS. SHINING: Q. Do you know who requested the : 3 report with regard to asbestos fibers? : 4 A. I never said that we requested specifically j 5 that they look for asbestos fibers. I said we would : 6 send samples over for their analysis. : 7 Q. So you never asked them to look for asbestos ; 8 fibers in Bakelite. .i . 9 A. No. ; 10 Q. So when you say -- so do you know whether or ; 11 not anyone has ever looked at asbestos fibers in j 12 Bakelite? .- . ' 13 A. To look specifically for fibers, no. \ t ! 14 Q. So to your knowledge no one has . ever cut a . . ' . . ' . .# 15 piece of Bakelite andanalyzed it todetermine whether - ' ; 16 or not asbestosfibers arereleased by thecutting of 17 that product. ' 18 A. No tests of that nature run while I was there. ! I J 19 Q. Do you know if tests of that nature have been ; 20 done since you've been there? .i .; 21 A. I do not. 'i 22 Q. "Do you know if there were tests of that nature | 23 before you were involved with the Bakelite division as a j 24 group manager? I 25 . A. There were tests run of air samples in the area ! ` 't .L,UA -1. JIU.T.1 OJJJtUlUJjl/)HfWJirxjX' SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 1 ----- CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 .. Page 29 ; 1 when we performed various operations. Those never ! 2 showed asbestos in the air. . 3. Q. . When you say "we" in your response, who are you 4 referring to specifically? 5 A. My group. . 6 , Q. And did your group have a specific title at 7 that time? 8 A. Yes. The Bakelite molding and laminated resins 9 group. 10 Q. How many people were in your group as 11 employees? . 12 A. It ranged anywhere from four to as many as 13 eight. 14 Q. How many people were involved in the air . . 15 sampling tests? ' 16 . A. When the test was run probably three. 17 Q- Can you recall their names? 18 A. No.. .. 19 "MR. ARMSTRONG: I am going to object to this -- ' 20 line of questioning as vague and ambiguous as to time. 21 MS. SHINING: Q. When were these tests run? 22 A. They were run in the early 1970s when we became: 23 aware that asbestos might be a problem. There was no 24 reason to run them before that. 25 Q. Do you know if the three people who were aj>v x > . . w w w A q a u .1i SHERRY SHERRY, S619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE m t wi . v .v . 1. a v n - j . a j.. -11. .. it j+ ik iK u w wL!u;?n u - . j j ,v . " jl* i v .k i* ? t MARTINO S/S/200) Page 30 ; 1 involved in the testing are still employed by union 2 Carbide? ( \ 3 A. I was there. Of course I am no longer an 4 employee, I am a retiree. I believe Doug Neal was 5 there, and he is a retiree; and I don't recall who the 6 third person was. . 7 Q. Do you recall how to spell Mr. Neal's last 8 name? ... 9 A. N-e-a-1. 10 . Q. What was Mr. Neal's title? 11 A. He was from the safety department. He was 12 performing the function of a safety engineer. 13 Q. Approximately how many of these tests did you 14 run? . . 15 A. We ran the test once and found no asbestos at 16 all. .. 17 Q. How.many samples did you test? 18 A. . Samples were taken from various locations in 19 the room around where our people were operating the 20 equipment. I would guess maybe a half a dozen. 21 Q. What equipment was used to perform the " 22 sampling? 23 A. I don't know what the device was that Doug used 24 or what it was called. . 25 Q. You don't know if it was called an impinger? mw v i m m . . .' A /m i.v SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO SI5/2001 1 A. No I do not. . Page 31 2 Q. Okay. What kinds of activities, were being .3 performed in the room that was being tested? 4 A. We had asked the laboratory assistant to 5 perform his normal molding operation with one of the 6 formulations. . 7 Q. Do you recall the product number? The BM 8 number of the particular formulation that was used? 9 A. No. It was one that contained about five 10 percent of percipio (phonetic) asbestos. 11 Q. And can you describe what the normal molding 12 operation that the lab assistant was performing? 13 A. It would require a pallet of the granular 14 material . in a small press, taking that pallet and. 15 putting it into a radio frequency heating unit, which is 16 similar to our present microwave, heating the material 17 up to a certain temperature and then placing that pill 18 in the molding press and forming a part. . . 19 Q. So this was the actual molding process after A 20 the granular Bakelite material had actually been formed. 21 A. That's correct. . - 22 Q. Was any activity done to the molded product 23 after it was already molded? 24 A. No. 25 Q. So there was no cutting of a finished Bakelite ` .. ' ., SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-444] CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/5/2001 ' 1 molded product tested. . Page 32 . 2 A. Not cutting. Molded product would have some . 3 flash in the material that was extruded between the 4 halves of the mold that would be removed. 5 Q. How was that removed? 6 A. Generally very brittle so it could be done by 7 hand. Just running a hand over the part. 8 Q. So you didn' t need to use sandpaper or a rasp? 9 A. No. No. It was very easy to break off. 10 ' Q- What was the size, if you can recall, of the 11 molded part that was made? . 12 A. It was- a size of an ashtray. In fact I think ' 13 it was an ashtray. That was one of our test pieces. 14 Q. So it was circular in size? 15 A. Circular with three indentations to hold the 16 cigarette. 17 ? Q. Literally an ashtray. 18 ` A. Yes. 19 Q. No drilling of the product afterwards was 20 performed and then samples taken? 21 A. No. ', 22 Q- Do you recall the timing of the samples during 23 that procedure? . 24 MR. ARMSTRONG: Objection. Vague and . 25 ambiguous. The question, what you mean by timing in SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 . (800) 547-4441 'f CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 that context? Page 33 2 MS. SHINING: Q. How long did this test take 3 in total? 4 A. About two, two hours. 5 Q. Were the six air samples taken evenly spaced 6 throughout the two hours? 7 A. Yes. ` 8 9- So every twenty minutes? . 9. A. About every 20 minutes. - 10 Q. Do you recall approximately the size of the 11 room in which this activity was being performed? 1 j 1.2 A. I would estimate about 15 feet wide and maybe 13 30. feet long. 14 . Q- Do you recall any ventilation in this room? 15 A. Yes. All our areas were very well ventilated. j 16 Q. Was that ventilated with industrial air 17 conditioning? Or were there additional fans provided 18 for these spaces? t ; i 19 A. No, we did not have air conditioning in the ' 20 location . It was the state of the art ventilation j \ j 21 equipment to keep the dust out of the air in the ' 22 vicinity pf the operator. . | i i 23 Q. Do you know the method by which -- I am ' . i 24 sorry -- did Mr. Neal then take air samples and view j 25 them himself? i t r s SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 ' Page 34 1 A. I don't know where he had samples analyzed. 2, Q- So you had nothing to do with the analysis of 3 the samples. . 4 A. No I did not: He reported back to me the 5 results . 6 Q. And can you recall precisely what his results , 7 were as he reported them to you? 8 A. No asbestos particles were measured. - 9 Q. Are those the exact words as you remember them? 10 A. I don't -- I may have -- I don't remember his ! 11 exact words but that was the result. ' 12 Q. Do you remember if he used the term "threshold j 13 limit value"? : 14- . A. Yes. He mentioned ttet there was a threshold ' .. * 15 limit value and that we were well below that. \ . ; 16 Q. Did he use the term "permissible emission 17 limit"? Or P-e-1? j | 18 A. That I am not familiar with. But threshold j 19 value was.. 20 Q- Okay. Do you remember anything else that he 21 said besides that you were well below the threshold I l ; ; 22 limit value?. . ; 23 A. No, that was it. ; 24 Q. Did Mr. Neal provide you with anything in : 25 writing regarding the results? Q ; '> SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 . (800) 547-4441 i CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1. A. No he did not. Page 35 j 2 Q. Do you know if he reduced any of the results 3 into written form? .= 4 . A. I have not been able to locate any written . 5 statements. ' - 6 Q. Have you recently attempted to locate any 7 written statements? 8 A. I think others have. We have not located it... 9 Q. Who did Mr. Neal report to at that time? 10 A. 1 don't recall the individual. . 11 ' Q. At the time of your retiring did Union Carbide 12 still have a safety department such as that Mr. Neal .. 13 worked for? 14 A. Oh, yes. Much bigger. 15 ' Q. Who was the head of the safety department when 16 you left? 17 A. I don't recall his name. 18 Q. Okay. Do you recall the head of the safety 19 department when Mr. Neal was working with you in 1970? __ 20 A. No, I do not. 21 Q. Okay. I would like to shift gears a little bit 22 and talk about Bakelite itself. Mr. Bakeland was 23 actually named as -- do.you know if he was one of the 24 "'Time' 100s Men of the Century"? 25 A. I knew he was very famous. I didn't know that SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 he received that award. 2 Q. And are you familiar with the chemical 3 formulations for Bakelite from your work from 1959 4 through the 1970s? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And you're familiar with the various fillers 7 that are used in Bakelite products? 8 A. Yes I am. " 9 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to the fillers 10 that were used and the product formulations that were 11 used in the period when the Bakelite unit was owned 12 actually as a.part of the Bakelite Corporation? 13 A. That was before 1948'so I don't know what was 14 done in that period of time. . 15 Q. Have you ever viewed, since 1959 have you 16 viewed files or formulas that relate back to product 17 formulations .that are earlier, from those earlier time 18 periods before Union Carbide bought Bakeland? 19 A. No I did not. 20 . Q. What's the earliest product formulation that 21 you have seen in you? experience with Bakelite? 22 A.. Some of the formulations that were sold in the 23 1950s. 24 Q. Now-1 have seen, we talked briefly about the BM 25 product naming system. Do you have an understanding as <- 1 SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 J . (800)547-4441 ..JUJO.-'HU J.Ji U- , ,,Ni ,,l. .Ik. CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE i- u . n . . ' MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 to when that system was started? Page 37 I 2 A. When it was started, no. But it was in 3 existence in the '50s. i ! 4 Q. Do you recall the numbers in sequence? Did 5 they change as new product formulations were being 6 invented? . 7 A. There were two ways of changing. If it was a 8 minor modification intended to displace the existing ` 9 material a fourth letter was added to the designation. 10 In other words, it was BMG 5000, a minor modification 11 that was to replace the original would be called BMGA 12 5000 until it became established. Then the old product 13 was obsolete and the new product was introduced and the 14 "A" was dropped. . 15 The other was that it was, a entirely new 16 compound it would receive a new four letter designation. 17 Q. When you say "four letter designation" do you 18 mean -- . 19 A. I mean four number, I'm sorry. ' 20 Q. Right. So it would be BM and then four digits. 21 A. Right. 22 Q. Are you familiar with products that only had 23 three digits? 24 A. Not in the phenolic molded material. 25 Q. Have you ever seen products that had BM-100 or ..1.v im u -- i -------i . i ! ' i m - f . SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 BM-200? Page 38 2 A. No. . 3 Q. Were product numbers ever phased out? : 4 A. Yes, they were. . 5 Q. How was a product number phased out? ' ,6 A- The' customer was notified that it would be 7 obsolete and removed from our product mix and then it 8 would be dropped. He would be given enough to time to 9 'find a substitute. . 10 Q. Would records with regard to those obsoleted 11 formulas be maintained? 12 A. They, were for awhile. Whether they still exist 13 or not I don't know. 14 Q. Where were they maintained?. . 15 A. While we were in the business at Bound Brook. 16 Q. Whose office would they be maintained by? 17 A. . The manufacturing department would have a file 18 of all the formulations that were purged. The obsolete 19 file would probably remain there for a short period of -- 20 time. 21 Q. Who would be in charge of keeping that file? 22 . A. ' The product scheduler. 23 Q. Do you know who was the product scheduler in 24 1959? 25 A. No I don't. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 . (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE TsW MARTINO 5/5/2001 v Page 39 1 Q. Do you know who any of the product schedulers 2 were at any time? 3 A. I knew them at that time but I don't remember 4 their names. Forty-seven years is a long time and a lot 5 of people. . 6 Q. 1 understand there may be a lot of questions I 7 ask thatyou might not have memory of so I appreciate 8 you bearing with me. 9. So do you have any memory as to the use of 10 asbestos in Bakelite formulations prior to when you 11 started working with Bakelite? 12 A.. Prior,, no. 13 Q. Do you have any understanding that you gained 14 after 19S9 of Bakelite formulations, again that were in 15 existence prior to 1959? . 16 A. I am sorry, I didn't understand that. What do 17 you mean by understanding? 18 Q. Well, after you started working directly with 19 Bakelite in 1959 did you learn about what formulations 20 were used before 1959? 21 A. We never went back and got the old ' 22 formulations. We worked with what we had. 23 Q. Do you recall in 1959 and 1960 which of the 24 formulations- were started at what time? 25 A. Most of what we worked with had been developed SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 ........ W-ATwm'. ' `' CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Page 40 1 in the '50s and then we continued to develop our own 2 after that. What I can't tell you is were any of those 3 in the '50s extensions of what was made in the '40s. 4 Q. Do you know who Robert Butler is? 5 A. No r don't. 6 Q. You have never heard his name before? 7 A. It -- not -- I don't remember meeting him 8 before. 9 Q. Do you ever recall speaking to Mr. Butler at 10 all? 11 A. I don't. 12 Q. Do you know if Mr. Butler has more knowledge of 13 the products and formulations for Bakelite with regard 14 to the asbestos containing Bakelite? . 15 MR. ARMSTRONG: I will object to that question 16 as calling for conclusions, speculation and silly. If 17 he doesn't know Mr.. Butler he can't possibly know 18 whether he knows more about formulations or not. 19 MS. SHINING: Q. Well do you know who 20 Mr., Butler is? 21 A. No I do not. 22 Q. Do you know whether he's provided government 23 agencies with information on the asbestos contained in 24 Bakelite? . . 25 A. No I do not. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 41 1 Q. Do you know who Clinton W. Blount is? ' 2 A. Clinton W. who? 3 Q. Blount, B-l-o-u-n-t, or C.W. Blount. 4 A. Seems that there was a vice-president named 5 .Blount, B-l-o-u-n-t. Is that the one you were referring 6 to? 7 Q. Well, so you have heard of him. 8 A. I have heard of a vice-president Blount. 9 . Q. Okay. Did you ever meet him? 10 A. If it was the same person you're referring to, 11 yes. 12 Q. Okay. Person from Texas? 13 A. The Blount that I know was vice-president in 14 charge of sales in the early ,'50s. . 15 Q. And do you know or did you have any information 16 that he was an Annapolis graduate from the Navy Academy? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Have you ever spoken to him? 19 A. -Again if it's vice-president Blount, yes. 20 Q. How many occasions did you speak with him? . 21 A. Whenever the vice-president would visit Bound 22 Brook for technical presentations and I was involved in 23 the technical presentation he was usually present. Now 24 if you're talking about the same individual. You know 25 Blount is a common name. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 s-tua-wa.vmm/'.u (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 42 1 Q. Did the Blount that you recall ever ask you 2 about the use of Bakelite products in the Navy? 3 A. No. .. 4 Q. Do you recall a fellow named Winfield Cooper? 5 A. No I don't. . 6 Q. Did you ever, know a fellow named William Huey? 7 A. Could you repeat the last name, please? . 8 Q. H-u-e-y, Huey. ' 9 A. No. 10 Q. Did you ever know an individual named Harry J. 11 Macgowen? ' 12 A. Macgowen's familiar but I cannot place -- place 13 him or what he did. 14 Q. Are you familiar that he was also in the sales 15 department? , 16 A. I don't remember, you know, where he was 17 located but I do recall a name of Macgowen somewhere 18 along the line there. . 19 Q. Did sales representatives come into the 20 research facility for training on an annual basis? 21 A. Not necessarily on an annual basis but they did 22 come in for training whenever a sales manager decided 23 they needed it. 24 Q. And it was the practice of the Bakelite 25 division to provide.the Bakelite salespeople with some SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 g Uikv^.Pl'H W,i J1 (800) 547-4441 J JUP.'i.w U.WJjrAU CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 43 1 technical information on the products they were selling? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And the salespeople would actually get to . I 4 assist and run different kinds of tests on Bakelite as 5 part of that training. 6 A. If they were new sales employees they would get 7 that kind of training. The experienced sales trainees 8 would not. v' 9 Q. When you were employed at the Bakelite division 10 was there a department called development laboratories? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What.was the development laboratories? 13 A. Research and development was divided into those 14 two departments., a research department and a development 15 department. , 16 Q. Which department did you specifically work for 17 when you were with the Bakelite product? 18 A. Developmentdepartment. They were later 19 consolidated into one. 20 Q. Do you have an understanding as to when they . 21 were separate what the separate responsibilities.were? 22 A. Yes. The development department was .. 23 responsible for taking resin technology that was 24 developed and applying and finding uses for it. The 25 research department had the responsibility to find new SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 plastics Page 44 2 Q- Okay. Are you familiar with the Brown 3 brothers ? Gordon and Sanford? 4 A. I heard of them. I- believe they were in the 5 vice-presidental -- both vice-presidents. 6 , Q. Did you ever meet them? 7 A. I don't recall meeting them, no. 8 ' Q. Did you ever meet Dr. Bakeland's son George 9 Bakeland? 10 A. His son? 11 Q. Right. 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did you ever meet Dr. Leo Bakeland? 14 A. No. He was a legend. We never "knew when he 15 would appear and Z never had the opportunity. 16 Q. Do you recall a fellow named Jack M. Fenlin? 17 A. Jack? Repeat that please. 18 Q. Fenlin, F-e-n-l-i-n? 19 A. No. --- 20 Q. Do you know an individual named W.R. Catlow, 21 C-a-t-l-o-w? - 22 A. Yes, I do.. 23 Q. Is Mr. Catlow still living? 24 A. I don't know. 25 Q. What was Mr. Catlow's responsibility at SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 Bakelite? . . Page 45 i 2 A. He was an associate director of research and 3 development when I was there. He later was assigned to 4 do various jobs on the site. He had the secretarial 5 pool, reporting to him and he did numerous technical 6 responsibility. 7 Q. So he was kind of higher up? 8 A. He was associate director, yes, but he was - 9 shelved when they decided to reorganize. 10 Q. Did you ever work for Mr. Catlow? 11 A. No X did not. 12 Q. So he was in the oth' er side of the -- he was in 13 research and you were in development? * 14 A. No,, he had some responsibilities in the j* >. > \. 15 development side during part of his career. 16 Q. Do you know if some of those responsibilities ` 17 involved working with customers to meet their j I I I 18 specifications and answer their questions? 19 A'. * During the time X knew him, no. I 1 .j 20 Q. Would individuals after 1959 in the development ! 21 laboratories ever have as part of their responsibilities : 22 working with customers and answering inquiries from 23 people with regard to the use of Bakelite products? j 24 A. Would they after 1959? ! 25 Q. Right. Ll ` SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 UWVWjU.Jl.lJI (800)547-4441 V.lU.n-`-l`1 ^ CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 A. Yes, that was part of our job. Page 46 2 Q. Okay. Do you know if it was part of that 3 department's job before you became involved with it 4 A. Yes. . 5 Q. And was it? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Are you familiar with an individual named 8 Howard Smith? . 9 A. I have heard that name and I have probably 10 him but I don't recall his position and what his 11 responsibilities were. . 12 Q-. Do you know if he was a manager in varnish 13 resin sales? 14 A. In varnish resin sales? 15 Q. Right. 16 A. I do not know. . .17 Q. Have you ever heard of an individual named 18 Graham? 19 A. D.P. Graham, no. 20 . Q- Did you ever know an individual named N.D. 21 Hanson? 22 A. H-a-m-p-s-o-n? 23 o. No, H-a-n-s-o-n. 24 A. Oh, yes. Yes. 25 Q. Who was Mr. Hanson? i.. jjw.tA u^.;iiwimm.u. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 Trsyr=szxxrsrzsz=377Ts: (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 47 1 A. He was responsible for tKe development of 2 laminating resins the late -- during the '50s. He was 3 replaced by a man working for me when I became the group 4 manager. . . 5 Q. Do you know if Mr. Hanson ever communicated 6 with the Navy with regard to the use of Bakelite 7 products? 8 A. If he did it would be with regard to the use of 9 laminating resins in laminates, and that would be only 10 in order to get products specified. ` 11 Q. Do you know if Mr. Catlow ever communicated 12' with the U.S. Navy? . 13 A. No, I don't but as I recall he was primarily in 14 the -- when he did have any responsibilities in the 15 service that area it was in the resin area, not the 16 molding area. 17 Q. When you were employed as group manager for 18 Bakelite who would have been responsible for answering 19 inquiries, from the Department of Ships at the U.S. Navy? 20 A. It depended on the inquiry. If it was more the 21 mold -- the approval of a molding material I would ' 22 probably get involved in that or one of the people 23 working for me but I would be aware of it. 24 If it was for a laminating resin another man in 25 my group would get involved in that. For other resins SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Page 48 >. 1 . it would go to whatever group had that responsibility. j 2. Q. Do you recall ever being asked by the Navy for ; 3 information on products that were designated by the MFE ' ' 4 classification type? : : i i 5 A. I have seen specifications like that and I do ; 6 recall being asked by the sales department about whether ; 7 or not we would qualify under those specifications. : 8 Q. Is that true for the MFH type classification - : 9- also if you can recall? ; 10 A. I don't recall because they had.various 11 classifications and what I would - - would be'can we meet j 12 this particular classification and become approved under ; . 13 it? So it would depend on what the salesperson at the ! 14 time was trying to get approval for. 15 Q. Okay. So you do recall communicating with the j 16 Navy at some time with regard to type MFE and MFH 17 materials? . 18 A. That I can't answer because I don't remember . 19 the exadt specifications that came up when I was 20 involved. 21 Just to clarify a point, I did not deal 22 directly with the Navy. It was usually to our sales 23 department that we dealt with whatever contact they 24 developed or our customer developed. 25 Q. That was the sales department, you said? LUXMVlk iV. SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Page 49 1 A. Sales department or the customer. Most often 2 it was the customer would go back to the salesman and 3 ask if we had a product that would meet that 4 specification that he could use. 5 Q. So when you say "customer" you're referring to 6 a specific molder - 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. So you would dealwith the molder whowould 9 then deal with the Navy. 10 A. That's right. 11 Q. Okay. But you did have an understandingthat 12 at some point the customers of Bakelite were dealing 13 with products that were destined for use in the Navy? 14 . MR. ARMSTRONG: Objection. Calling for 15 conclusion, speculation. And it's also irrelevant. 16 You can go ahead and answer as far as you know 17 subject to those objections. . 18 THE WITNESS : The approval - - government 19 approval did not necessarily mean just Navy, you know, 20 the government approval applied to all parts of the 21 service. 22 . "MS. SHINING: Q. I am sorry, sir, you need to 23 speak up just a little bit more. . 24 A. Yeah. The government approval did not 25 necessarily -- were not necessarily limited to just SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 '..'ii'WT?'-' -J- v?... (800)547-4441 '.sV . n i - CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 50 i 1 dealing with Navy. Some of the approvals were broad ' \ I 2 enough so they applied to all of the services. - 3 Q. Okay. But you did understand that some of the \ 4 products the molders were manufacturing using Bakelite 5 materials were destined for use in the Navy? 6 MR. 'ARMSTRONG: Obj ection. 7 THE WITNESS: I was never told what service was 8 going to get them. ' 9 MS. SHINING: Q. Did you have an understanding 10 that some of the products would be suitable for uses in 11 the U.S. Navy? 12 A. If they met the specification the conclusion 13 was that they would be. 14 Q. Do you have , any understanding as to whether . 15 Bakelite products- as molded by your customers would meet 16 the mineral filler type specifications for phenolic .17 molded materials? 18 MR. ARMSTRONG: Objection. Vague and ambiguous 19 and incomprehensible. I don't understand that question 20 I don't know that Mr. Martino does but if I don't I am 21 not going to let him answer it. 22 . THE WITNESS: Yeah, I don't either. 23 MS. SHINING: Q. Do you know what a mineral 24 filler is, Mr. Martino? 25 A. Absolutely. i SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Page SI j 1 Q. And do you know that certain mineral filler 2 phenolic materials were approved for use by the U.S. 3 Navy? . 4 MR. ARMSTRONG: Objection. Vague and ambiguous 5 as to the meaning of mineral filler -- what was the 6 phrase you used? 7 MS. SHINING: Q. Well, sir, I will rephrase. 8 Tell me what is a mineral filler in your 9 understanding? 10 A. Exactly that. It covers a number of different 11 minerals. It caii be mica, calcium carbonate, calc and 12 asbestos and it can even.be glass. - 13 Q. And do you have any knowledge as to whether or 14 not Bakelite products using asbestos would meet the 15 mineral filler specifications of the U.S. Navy? 16 MR. ARMSTRONG: Objection. Vague and ambiguous 17 as to the meaning of the word Bakelite in the last 18 context. 19 "Are you referring to trademark Bakelite or are 20 you referring to generic Bakelite? . 21 MS. SHINING: Q. Sir, do you tinderstand the 22 question? . 23 THE WITNESS: Please rephrase that. 24 MS. SHINING: Q. Do you have any understanding 25 as to whether any phenolic resin product manufactured by 1 SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 1 Bakelite qualified under the mineral filler 2 specifications of the U.S. Navy? Page 52 i 3 A. No I do not. 4 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to whether anyone 5 at Union Carbide at any time had knowledge as to whether 6 or not Bakelite products containing asbestos met the 7 mineral filler specifications? 8 A. Unless we were requested to obtain approval 9 under that specification we would not have been on the 10 approved list so without seeing specifications and the 11 approved list I can't answer that. i 12 Q. Is there anyone else that would have more 13 knowledge about that subject than you? ' 14 A. At this stage I can't think of anyone. 15 Q. When you say "at this stage," are there persons 16 who are now deceased who would have had more knowledge 17 about that subject than you? 18 A. Someone in the sales department would keep a 19 record of our approvals. Probably the marketing manager 20 so that he could respond to requests and he would refer 21 to that list but where that list is now I don't know. 22 Q. Who would have been the marketing manager iMU .V 23 responsible for phenolic resin molded products when you 24 joined Bakelite in 1959? .. . .HI 25 A. Peter Potter. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 ' 1 Q. Is that spelled just as it sounds? Page 53 2 A. Pardon. Yes, P-o-t-t-e-r. 3 Q. How long had he been the marketing manager? If 4 you know 5 A. Probably about the same period of time as I was 6 in charge of the group. 7 Q. Was he employed there when you started with the 8 Bakelite division in 1959? . 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Was he employed -- do you know when he started 11 with Union Carbide? 12 A. It was-a little before 1948. Exactly what date ' 13 I don't know. . . 14 15 Q: Was he always engaged in marketing? A. Oh, no. He was in research and development 16 just like I was. In fact ray boss for a short period of 17 time. 18 Q. When did he switch into.marketing? 19 A. In 1960. Oh, I am sorry, let me take that 20 back. He was first product manager in R&D and then 21 after that he became marketing manager within a couple 22 of years, I believe. . 23 Q. So some time in the 1950s? 24 A. Yes. Oh, this was in the 1960s, early 1960s. 25 Q. Do you know who he replaced? SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 A. No I don't. Page 54 2 Q. Okay. Do you know if Mr. Potter is still 3 living? 4 . A.. Yes he is. 5 Q. Does he live in New Jersey? 6 A. No, he's in Connecticut. 7 Q. When was the last time you spoke with Mr. -- 8 A. I am not sure what his address is. - 9. . Q. Okay. 10 A. I am not sure where he is located right now. 11 Q. When was the last time you spoke with him? 12 A. I received a card from him when I retired. 13 1996. 14 Q. Have you ever heard the name J.W. McLaughlin? 15 A. I have heard the name. I do not know what he 16 did or where he was located. 17 Q. Did you ever know a Kenneth Atkins? 18 A. Yes.. - 19 Q. Is Mr. Atkins still employed by Union Carbide? 20 . A. I don't know. '. 21 Q. What was Mr. Atkins' job? 22 . A. Oh, he has many different jobs. He was in the 23 sales department for a short -- for awhile. Transferred . 24 to production for awhile- and then became a marketing 25 manager in Danbury f* or awhile. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 Page 55 And then he had a job with the polyethylene 2 business when I was first there. 3 Q. Do you know when he started his employment with 4 Onion Carbide? 5 A. It was after I started. It would be in the 6 early 1950s. 7 Q. Do you know who Raymond Gandy is? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Are you familiar with the publications of 10 Raymond Seymour? 11 A. Raymond what? 12 Q- Seymour, S-e-y-m-o-u-r? 13 A. No. 14 9- You don't recognize him as an author of 15 textbooks on polymer science? 16 A. ' No. 17 Q. Did you ever have an opportunity to see 18 Bakelite as it was packaged for shipping to customers? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q- Would you see that in the Bound Brook plant? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. ' How was the Union Carbide Bakelite packaged. 23 before it was shipped? 24 A. The phenolic molding materials were packed into 25 50-pound bags. They were paper bags lined with SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 56 1 polyethylene. They had polyethylene liners in them. ' 2 They at one time were also packaged in large 3 cardboard drums with steel tops and bottoms. Those were .4 probably held about 250 pounds; 5 And then they were packaged in what we' call 6 Gaylord containers. These were about six feet square 7 and they held almost a thousand pounds and they were 8 strapped to a pallet. 9 Q. Are you familiar with any tags that were placed 10 on Bakelite products at any time? 11 (Interruption at the door.) 12 : THE WITNESS: -- labels but you know the 13 specification of what was on those labels I may not 14 . recall entirely. . 15 MS. SHINING: Q.Are you. familiar at all with 16 the labeling requirements or the labeling that was done 17 during the 1940s? 18 A. The 1940s? No. 19 Q. Are you familiar at all with the appearance of -- - 20 packaging labeling, during the 1950s? 21 MR. ARMSTRONG: Well I am going to object to 22 that question, and.move to strike the answer to the 23 prior question also asserts the objection. The question 24 is vague and ambiguous as to what you mean by labeling 25 requirements and it may well be argumentative because I SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 TOURlUiUJJ USES (800)547-4441 UT1.1---luv-J'-u. JX-I --m.'!." CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/5/2001 . 1 Mr. Sauers? Page 60 2 A. About 15 years ago. 3 Q. Have you reviewed or seen any submissions from 4 Union Carbide to a governmental agency with regard to 5 the formulations of Bakelite? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Can you recall which Bakelite materialshad 8 asbestos as a part of their formulation? 9. , A. Do 1 recall which -- would you repeat the 10 question, please? 11 . Q. Which Bakelite product numbers -- and I am 12 sorry, you actually used a term to refer to that BM . 13 designation. What did you call that? 14 A. For the experimental? 15 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. 16 MS. SHINING: Q. Or just the regular. 17 A. Oh, "B" for Bakelite, "M" is formolding. Or 18 if it's "R" it's resin, and the third letter is the form 19 that it's in, granular is "G." "S" is solvent. "P" is 20 pulverized. `. 21 Q. What's a "C" stand for? ' 22 A. "C"? BMC? . 23 . Q. Right. Well what would, let's say, something . 24 as B-M-M-C; what would that mean? 25 A. I believe we used "M" at the end of the period SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 61 1 we were in the business for a special granulation. 1 2 don't recall exactly what it was, whether it was an 3 injection molding or the purpose but it was a change, a 4 minor change in the granular form. 5 Q. How about BM -- well, did you ever see product 6 designations that had four letters and four numbers? 7 A. Yes. As I mentioned to you earlier, the fourth 8 letter was supposed to mean experimental; 'A'' would be `9 for the first change, "B" for the second, "C" for the 10 third. The intent was that the experimental formulation 11 would eventually replace all the previous ones and then 12 the third letter -- the fourth letter would be dropped. . 13 Sometimes they couldn't do that because the customer 14 refused to give up the old formulation. . 15 Q. Do you remember when -- well, when you began 16 working with the Bakelite group in 1959 is it your 17 understanding that certain formulations were being 18 commercially' produced that had asbestos as a filler? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And do you have an understanding as to when 21 asbestos was first used as a filler in Bakelite products 22 by Union'Carbide or Bakelite Corporation? 23 A. It was used while I was there in some . 24 formulation. Not all formulations. I don't know what 25 happened before 1948. . SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Page 62 1 Q. So it was used at least as early as 1948? ` 2 A. Yes. . 3 Q. What is the source of your memory with1 regard 4 to products made in 1948? 5 A. Since I was not directly involved in the . 6 business it was more what I observed and what I saw when r . 7 1 went through the department as a production trainee. 8 So it was not as detailed -- I'd say especially at that 9 point, not as detailed. When I was in the business and 10 responsible for it then I became very knowledgeable in 11. the area. 12 Q. Okay. . Do you recall today what product 13 formulations or product designations from Union Carbide 14' or the Bakelite unit were asbestos containing? 15 A. I can remember some of the numbers. There were 16 about a dozen. - 17 Q. What are the numbers you recall? 18 A. BMG 5138, BMG 5440, 5333. 19 Q. Was that also BMG? --- 20 A. That I'm not sure whether it's BMG or BMM but, 21 you know, as I said the third letter was the variation 22 in the granular form so the basic formulation would not 23 be different. . 24 2035. 5250. . 25 Q. Was that 5250? 1 ' v'vU.Hs-< 'J.vi.'UiivU.,- `J.yWWI SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 U. i . ..,v,ur (800) 547-4441 l* T***TTiU* 'H' u m|ii .i i. ' 'n *' CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 A. Yes.: Page 63 2 . Q. You have to keepyour voice up forourcourt 3 reporter. . 4 A. Yes, 5250. I am sorry, my voice goes down when 5 I am thinking. It takes more energy. 6 Q. iThank you. 7 A. There weremore but I can't rememberall the 8 numbers right now. 91 We had about a dozen formulations that . 10 contained asbestos out of at one time we had two hundred 11 formulations and then that was consolidated down to 12 about 120. . 13 Q. Do you recall or do you have any knowledge as 14 to how many formulations there were in 1948? Total. 15 A. No. 16 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to how many of the 17 formulations in 1948 specified asbestos? 18 A. No. 19 Q. "Was the addition of asbestos to provide . 20 additional insulating characteristics to the Bakelite? 21 A. No. 22 Q. What is your understanding of the function of 23 asbestos in Bakelite products? 24 A. Did the same as any other mineral filler except 25 that since it was fibrous it gave the product a little SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 1 better impact strength. Page 64 2 Q. Did it also ofer additional heat resistant 3 characteristics in some Bakelite formulations? 4 A. Better than wood flour, no different than talc 5 or calcium carbonate or mica which were more glass which 6 were other fillers used. 7 Q. I understand that one product made by Bakelite 8 ' at one time used blue asbestos fibers. Is that your 9 understanding as well? 10 A. Ask blue, that's the long fibers asbestos. 11 Q. Do you understand that one product used that 12 type of fiber? . 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Would that product ever be suitable for use 15 . aboard a Navy ship? 16 A. I would have -- without knowing the application 17 I can't answer that. \ 5 ! 18 Q. What type of application was that product good 19 for? A* 20 A. Primarily for. very high voltage switch gear * ! >i} 21 where you needed very high impact -- impact strength. 22 Q. When you say very high voltage what are you 23 referring to? 24 A. Oh, what's normal in power stations, well over 25 a thousand volts. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . Page 65 1 Q. Were there any limitations to the way the blue 2 fiber made the Bakelite product look? 3 A.No. Once the product is molded it is very - 4 and if it's, you know,- made well, well mixed, very 5 .difficult to tell what filler is in there. 6 Q. When you say it's very difficult, is it 7 impossible to tell? 8 A. Analytical method you can determine it but it 9 requires breaking -- taking the material apart. 10 Q. So in your opinion or from your experience 11 there's no way to visually discern whether or not 12 Bakelite has asbestos in it? 13 A. That's correct. 14 - Q. In your opinion -- well, there are other 15 companies who made phenolic resin products; isn't that 16 correct? 17 . A. Yes. 18 . Q. And with regard to their molded products, in 19 your experience is there any way to discern if there's 20 no marking molded on the product itself who was the 21 manufacturer of that product? - 22 ` A. That's correct. . 23 Q. Okay. Do you have any recollection as to which 24 other competitors of Union Carbide manufactured asbestos 25 containing phenolic resins? 1^. SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE m m H'M'jer*. va.u'w u .-.v .y rm f. i -s*/." -v, ^ MARTINO ------------------------------: 5/5/2001 ;-------------- :--, Page 66 ; 1 A. There were other manufacturers of phenolic 2 molding materials. We did not have access to their I I j 3 formulations. I. can only speculate that they would be 4 doing the same thing we were doing. 5 Q. Would the sales staff at Union Carbide have an 6 understanding as to whether or not your competitors were 7 selling asbestos containing phenolic materials that 8 had -- 9. A. No, because the data sheets did not specify 10 what colors were used. 11 Q. Would they specify mineral filler? . ' 12 A. They will say mineral filler, yes. And usually 13 specifications only said mineral filler. 14 Q. . Are you familiar with the company American IS Cyanamid? 16 A. Yes I am. 17 Q- Did they manufacture urea formaldehyde? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. A Do you know what percentage of the market for 20 phenoiic resins -- well, do you know if American 21 Cyanamid sold phenolic resins? , 22 A. I don't think they did, no. They were never 23 our competitor. 24 Q- Are you familiar with a company called Makalot, 1 0 rr1 o 25 M-a-k-a-1 iinrseuiig a jfjtjf jamra-nmjwj>iu j.t a 'i n a s i.1*r SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 . 1 A. Would you spell that again please? Page 67 2 Q. M-a-k-a-l-o-t. 3 A. No. 4 Q- They weren't a competitor of Union Carbide? 5 A. I never encountered them, no. 6 Q. Are you familiar with a company called 7 Castolin? 8 A. No. 9 Q- They're not a competitor of Union Carbide? 10 A. None that I -- I neve- -r saw their name, no. : 11 Q- Okay. Are you familiar with a company called 12 Catalin, C-a-t-a-l-i-n? 13 A. Catalin. Catalin? 14 Q- Right. 15 A. I recall that as a name of a product line. .1 '* 16 don't recall who it was that did that. Could have been 17 Celanese _ i jji 18 ' Q- Was that a phenolic resin product? 19 A. If it was it would have been a resin. 20 Q. Would that have been a molded product? . \ 21 A. No. I never saw that name among the list of i 22 phenolic molding material manufacturers. ; 23 Q- So that's not a competitor of Union Carbide's? j 24 A. If it is it's in a different area than I was 1 25 in. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 - Page 68 1 Q. Are you familiar with a company called 2 Condensite, C-o-n-d-e-n-s-i-t-e? 3 A. Yes, they were one of the original producers of 4 Bakelite resins. I think they were located in Chicago. 5 Q. Do you know whether they merged with Bakelite? 6 A. I think they did. 7 Q. And that would have been in the '30s? 8 A. Either '30s or maybe late '20s. 9 Q. Are you familiar with a product called - 10 Redmanol? . . 11 A. Yes. That also was one of those very early 12 products, and I. think the company that was also making 13 phenolic resins. 14 Q. Do you know whether they were making phenolic 15 resins in the 1930s? 16 A. Redmanol? They were also one of the companies 17 that consolidated to form Bakelite Corporation. I don't 18 know, since it was before my time, I don't recall when . 19 all that happened. 20 Q. So that would have been a company, again, 21 that's merged with Bakelite early on? ' 22 A. Yes. . There might be something in that article 23 I mentioned earlier today, but. 24 Q. Do you recall a company called Durez? 25 A. Oh, yes. Very much so. 1 l_rl SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 SBS5T?SSB5CWTPSreOT?P9rWr' (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/3/2001 1. . Q. And they made a product called Durite? Page 69 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to what percentage 4 of the market of phenolic resins Durez had during the 5 1940s? 6 A. A percentage I can't give you. I can just say 7 that they were our biggest competitor but not as large . 8 as Bakelite was. - 9 ' Q. Do you know if they were less than half the 10 market for phenolic resins? 11 A. During that period of time, yes. ' 12 Q. Were they more than a quarter? ." 13 ' A. Oh, yes. Yes. They were number two. That 14 position changed in 1953 and they became number one. 15 Q. I am sorry, what year? 16 . A. In the 19 -- about 1953, to '54 they became 17 number one, and I would say they were probably had the 18 dominant share and they're probably close to 50 percent. 19 Q. *How long did they remain the dominant share 20 after 1954 to your memory? . 21 A.Until we went out of the business. They were 22 always number one. 23 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to whether they 24 produced a competing mineral filler Bakelite product? I 25 am sorry, a mineral filler phenolic resin product? SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/5/2001 Page 70 1 A. Yes. They had a product line equivalent to 2 ours. 3 Q. Do you know if they ever tried to use the term 4 "Bakelite" to refer to their products? 5 A. They did not. They had their own, you know, 6 desig -- name for it but. 7 Q. Okay. Thank you. 8 Are you familiar with a company called ... 9 Fiberite? i ' 10 MR. ARMSTRONG: Hold on just a minute. . 11 THE WITNESS: Yeah, let me - 12 MS. SHINING: Q. Well I think he answered the 13 question so we can go on. My question - 14 MR. ARMSTRONG: Let him get his answer out. 15 MS. SHINING: Sir; why don't we have the court 16 reporter read it back. 17 (Record read.) . 18 MS. SHINING: Q. Well, sir, do you have any 19 other knowledge as to whether or not Durez used the word 20 "Bakelite" to refer to their own products? And I don't 21 want you to answer with regard to what anybody else' said 22 about Bakelite products. Just tell me what you know 23 about what Durez referred to their products as. 24 MR. ARMSTRONG: He can finish his answer. 25 Please do so. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 7 i i 1 THE WITNESS: All right. Durez did not but by ' j i 2 that time Bakelite became a tray -- a trade -- '. 3 MS. SHINING: Q. Sir, if you are going to j ( j 'I 4 answer with regard to what anybody else said I will move | ' i 5 to strike. I just wanted to know what Durez referred to j 6 their products as. j 7 MS. SHINING: Ms. Shining, will you allow him j 8 to finish his answer? You may move to strike if you ... 9 want to but he has the right to finish his answer. Now i i 10 let him speak. ' 11 THE WITNESS: The customers considered any of 12 those products Bakelite type products. I \ > 13 MS. SHINING: Q. Okay. Well let me ask you 14 about that then if you insist on going into it. I will 15 move to strike your answer. 16 How many customers did you specifically hear 17 refer to phenolic resins generically as Bakelite 18 products regardless of who they were manufactured by? 19 A. Most of our customers. ~ 20 Q. Okay. Which ones and on what occasions? 21 A. Oh, Modem Plastics Corporation, Square D,' they 22 were people usually using it, and that Armstrong Corp. 23 formica, commonly used word. . 24 Q. Any other customers? 25 A. Many of the electrical manufacturers. I'm 'iw u n j'1 U ^ W !^ lll. U J 3 ,g A : ^ !lW A 8U IU iJ llU .lA l.<!.l a iU ' L l Aka... UUIAU'A !.!, SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE h: .hvjii .vw.ri.'HJ/iuALyi, MARTINO S/S/2001 1 trying to think of the specific names but we have to go 2 down the customer list and I don't have that in front of 3 me. .. 4 Q. You can't recall any other customers that used 5 the term "Bakelite" as a generic tenn to refer to . 6 phenolic resins other than Modern Plastics Corporation 7 or Square D? 8 MR. ARMSTRONG: I will object to the question 9 as being argumentative and instruct the witness not to 10 answer. 11 . You can rephrase the question so he can answer 12 if you like. 13 MS. SHINING: Q. Can you remember any Others? 14 A. At.this time I would need more time to think of 15 all the customers that we called on at that time. 16 Q. Go ahead, take all the time you need, sir. 17 A. Armstrong Corp. made a bottle cap'. 18 The -- they were a number of electrical parts 19 manufacturers up in Wisconsin. I'm sorry, I can't 20 recall the specific names. I'll have to leave that as I 21 answered it. ' 22 Q. Okay. How many times did you speak with Modem 23 Plastics when they referred to Bakelite as a generic 24 word for phenolic resin? 25 A. I had gotten to the point where it didn't even ! ' ; ; : ; SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/3/2001 Page 73 1 bother me. I mean it's part of a conversation, if they 2 had Bakelite it was no -- not a memorable experience. I 3 mean I -- it was our common way of communicating. 4 Q. Okay. Do you have any idea how many times? 5 A. No. ' 6 Q. Do you recall who you were talking to at Modern 7 Plastics who used that word in that way? 8 A. Generally the operators in the shop. The 9 foreman. " 10 Q. Can you recall any of their names? . 11 A. No I do not. ' 12 Q. How about for Square D? ' How many times do you 13 recall them using the name in that fashion?- 14 A. Again, it isn't something that I made . 15 particular note of at the time. 16 Q. Do you recall any person individually referring 17 to it in that manner? 18 A. No, but my contact there was Mike Mayer of 19 Square D. .. 20 Q. What' w?s Mr. Mayer's job? 21 A. He was in charge of specifying approving 22 products for his application. . 23 - Q. Did he have a particular title? . 24 . A. If he did I didn't know exactly what it was. 25 Q. Is Mayer, M-a-y-e-r or M-e-y-e-r? ?TO77, .M ' . a V T Tgy-'.V |U . SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 ' 1 A. M-a-y-e-r. Page 74 2 Q- I am sorry? 3 A. M-a-y-e-r. . 4 Q- And with regard to Armstrong Corp., do you have 5 any memory as to how many occasions people used the term 6 Bakelite in a generic sense? 7 A. No. 8 Q- And you don't recall the names of any of those 9 electronics parts manufacturers in Wisconsin at this 10 time? 11 A. They don't come to mind right now, no. 12 Q- When were these conversations with Modern ' 13 Plastics , Square D, Armstrong and the parts people in 14 Wisconsin? What years? .. . . 15 A. It would be during the period of time that Z 16 was in that business, so between 1960 and 1974. *' 17 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a company called 18 . Fiberite? 19 ` A. Yes. A 20 Q- Were they a competitor of -- and I am sorry, 21 going back to Durez, do you have any recollection as 22 to -- well I think I asked you. I am sorry. . 23 With regard to Fiberite, they were a competitor 24 of Union Carbide's? 25 A. No they were not. They were customers. ! ) SHERRY SHERRY, 561? (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO . 5/5/2001 1 Q. So they bought Bakelite. Page 75 2 A. They bought phenolic resins. Bakelite phenolic 3 resins. 4 Q. Do you know if they bought mineral fiber 5 containing phenolic resins? 6 A. No they did not. 1 Q. Are you familiar with a company called General . 8 Plastics? 9- A. I've heard the name but that's about it at'this 10 stage. I don't recall what they did. 11 Q. Do you know if they're a customer of Bakelite? 12 A. I don't recall. ' 13 Q. Okay. Do you recall if General Electric was a 14 customer of Bakelite? . 15 A. Yes they were. 16 Q. . Did you work at all with General Electric and 17 have any familiarity with the type of Bakelite they j | 18 purchased? 19 A. They made their own phenolic molding material . 20 and bought from us what they didn' t make. So they were j 21 both a producer and user. ; 22 Q- Do you know what years General Electric was -- ] 23 well would you consider General Electric to be a j m 24 c' ompetitor of Union Carbide in that sense ? 25 A. ;/ SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 - 1 Q. What years were they a competitor? Page 76 . 2 A. Again during that period of time I was in 3 charge of the group, about 14 years. 4 Q. So 1960 through '74? 5 A. Right. . 6 Q. You're familiar with a company called Monsanto? 7 A. Yes, I am. 8 Q. And they made a product call Resinox? 9 A. That as I recall was a phenolic resin. I don't 10 ' recall exactly what type it was because they're, you 1 11 know, a variety of different phenolic resins and other 12 components reactive. . 13 Q. Would you consider them to be a competitor of i * i 14 Un ion Carbid.e? ' . . 15 A. When they were in that business I would say i1 16 only on t.he resin side. 17 Q. Do you know if they had a product that was i1 | 18 competitive with Union Carbide asbestos containing 19 Bakelite products? . 20 A*. They were not in the molding business. ! 1 21 Q. Are you familiar with a company called ,, 22 Marblette, M-a-r-b-l-e-t-t-e? * ~ ] \ ! 23 A. No. . | 24 Q. I am sorry, was that "no"? 1 25 A. No. i SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 ' (800)547-4441 i 'r 1 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO J/5/2001 . Page 77 1 Q. So they weren't a competitor of Union Carbide. 2 A. No. / . 3 o- Are you familiar with a company called National 4 Vulcanized Rubber? . 5. A. I have heard the name, yes, but I don't -- they 6 were not a competitor of ours in molding material and I 7 don't remember them as a competitor in phenolic resins 8 either. 9 Q. Are you familiar with a company called 10 ' Reichold. 11 A. Yes. . 12 Q. Did they make phenolic resins? 13 A. They made phenolic resins and molding 14 materials. . 15 Q. Were they a competitor of Union Carbide? 16 A. Yes they were. 17 Q. What percentage of the market did Reichold have 18 during the time you were group manager?. 19 A. They were probably number four or five.- The ' * . f* 20. exact percentage I don't know. . " 21 Q. Do you know if they were a competitor of Union 22 Carbide prior to when you became group manager? . 23 A. Yes they were. 24 Q. Do you know how early they were a competitor of 25 Bakelite products? ._ ' SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 A. No I don't. Page 78 2 Q. Okay. Do you know if they ever referred to 3 their products as Bakelite products? 4 A. No they did not. 5 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a company called 6 Reilly Tar? . 7 A. No I'm not. 8 Q. You don't know if they were a supplier of Onion 9 Carbide' s? 10 A. I have never seen that name before. . 11 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a company called 12 Rohm & Haas? 13 A. Yes I am. ` 14 . Q- Do you know whether they made any thermosetting 15 plastics? 16 A. They may have made some thermosetting plastics 17 but I -- they were not a competitor of ours in the 18 phenolic area. 19 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a company called l .: 20 Westinghouse? : 21 A. Yes, I am. . . 22 Q. They made a product called micarta. : 23 A. Yes. ' 24 Q. In your opinion is micarta a similar product to 25 Bakelite*> . * SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 .A. . It uses a phenolic resin and it is similar to Page 79 i ! 2 formica. .` . . ' , i 3 Q. Do you know if micarta ever contained asbestos? ' y 4. A. It did not. . i '. . . 5 Q. Do you know if Westinghouse ever bought J J 6 products from Bakelite? 7 A. Yes they did. They also manufactured their own 8 phenolic materials. j 9 Q. Do you know if those phenolic molding materials t . 10 ever contained asbestos? ; 11 A. No I do not. ' 12 Q. Do you know if Westinghouse ever referred to 13 its products as Bakelite? 14 A. They did not, no. . 15 Q. Okay. I think you've mentioned the number - 16 well, for part of this time period -- well, while you 17 were employed as group manager Bakelite was not the 18 number one producer of phenolic resins; is that what you ?.1, v.q^ v .'PT.w^.w's. i,.n.i.v.ince i.u.r 19 sa.id? A . 20 A. Of phenolic molding materials. . 21 Q. Okay. Was Bakelite number one with regard to 22 phenolic laminated resins? 23 ' A.- Phenolic resins in general. I would rank them 24 as one or two, yes. 25 Q. And the other producer would be Durite or !w . i. x - . j. f i v SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO J/5/2001 ' . Page 81 1 Q. Would asbestos be used as a filler for that 2 application? 3 A. The application that I'm familiar with would 4 not require. . 5 Q. Okay. To your knowledge did the Bakelite 6 division ever sell materials to General Dynamics? 7 A. If they did I was not aware, of it. 8 Q. What about the company Convair, C-o-n-v-a-i-r? 9 A. Again they were not on the customer list that 10 we had for phenolic .molded materials. 11 Q. How about Hughes Corporation? 12 A. Hughes, for phenolic molding materials, I never 13 saw that name on the customer list or never asked to 14 visit there. 15 MR. ARMSTRONG: Ms. Shining? 16 MS. SHINING: Yes. 17 MR. ARMSTRONG: May I ask how muchlonger you 18 have still? 19 * MS. SHINING: I have got my IS minutes, I am 20 going to use it. 21 MR. ARMSTRONG: You have got your 15minutes? 22 MS. SHINING: You have no sense of humor, 23 Mr. Armstrong. It's getting late out here. I had no 24 idea that you were going to actually go to New Jersey, I 25 am quite sorry. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 . (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 1 Durez? Page 80 | 2 A. Of the phenolic resins? 3 Q, Right. 4 A. That was Georgia Pacific. Number -- some other 5 manufacturer got into it a bit but Board and Chemical 6 . was another producer of phenolic resins. They probably 7 became number one. 8 Q. Do you know if Georgia Pacific ever used 9 asbestos as a mineral filler in any of its phenolic 10 resins? 11 A. They were primarily users of phenolic resins 12 for wood products. . .13 . Q. So they used wood flour as the filler? 14 A. No, they did not make phenolic molded 15 materials, they made plywood. 16 Q. Okay. And Board and Chemical, did they ever 17 make phenolic molding materials? 18 A. No, they sold resin to people who did make 19 molding materials. 20 Q. Was Bakelite ever formed into a sheet stock 21 material for use as a circuit board? A PC board? . 22 A. Yes it could be used for that purpose. Now 23 the -- depending on the size and shape, you know, it 24 would depend on whether,' what it was molded for, 25 laminated. . SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/3001 1 A. In Bridgewater, New Jersey. Page 83 ' 2 Q. I assume he's retired? - 3 A. Yes, he is. ' 4 Q. When's the last time you spoke with Mr. Thomas? 5 A. Last night. ' 6 Q. Did you talk to him about this deposition? 7 A. I told him I was going to be giving a . e deposition. He and a number of other people who I work 9 with in the phenolic area play bridge with our wives 10 once a month and last -- yesterday was our bridge, 11 meeting.- 12 Q.I could never figure out' that game. 13 A. I'm not very good at it either but it's a good 14 reason to get together socially. .. . 15 Q. Did Mr. Thomas recall anything about the use of 16 asbestos in Bakelite? 17 A. He would be related with many of the products IB that we talked about. He was involved in both the 19 molding material and the laminating resin business just ~ 20 like I was, only just prior to the time I was involved. 21 Q. When did Mr. Thomas start at Union Carbide or 22 Bakelite? 23 A. Before 1948 and just after the war. I think he 24 joined Union Carbide after he got out of the service so 25 that would-probably be '46. SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 '11 ww; '.4iiL.Lj.v~' (800) 547-4441 1.,, CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 1 Q. What service was he in? Page 84 2 A. I think it was the Army but I'm not sure. 3 Q.. Now were you also in the Navy? 4 A. Yes I was. . . 5 Q. What were you in the Navy? 6 A. I was electronic technician. 7 Q. Did you serve aboard a ship? 8 A. I didn't get that far. I was put through ... 9` training for almost one year and then the war was over 10 and they decided they didn't need us anymore. We were 11 going to be assigned to a ship. 12 Q. During your training did you have any exposure 13 to Bakelite products? 14 A. No I didn't. Well, I -- our training was to 15 repair electronic equipment. Some of the -- at the time 16 X didn't know, that much about plastics so I can't say 17 that, you know, there were phenolic parts in the 18 equipment but I can't see why there would not because it 19 was used>in the electronic equipment. 20 . Q. Did you ever use test panels to test equipment? 21 A. The instruments that we worked with were r 22 mounted on field panels and I never saw with the . 23 equipment I worked with, a plastic panel. 24 Q. You never had to drill a hole in a plastic 25 panel and put an instrument in it and test it? SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 85 1 A. No, no.. These were steel panels that the 2 instruments were mounted on and I did not have that .3 experience. 4 Q. When did you undergo your training? Or I. am 5 sorry. where did you undergo your training? - 6 A. Oh, a number of different places. Started at 7 Great Lakes. Then I went to Chicago. Then to Detroit 8 and then to San Francisco. .... . 9 Q. In San Francisco where did you have your 10 training? 11 A. Treasure Island. ' 12 ,Q- Did you ever visit Hunter's Point Naval 13 Shipyard? . 14 A. I'm not familiar with where that is. At the 15 time i was there there was a large, you know,, the Navy 16 base was quite large at Treasure Island. .' 17 Q- where did you live when you were in San 18 Francisco? 19 A. At Treasure Island. ' 20 Q. Did you ever visit the Mare Island Naval .' 21 Shipyard? ' . 22 .A. No, no. . 23 Q. Did you ever visit the Marin Shipworks? 24 A. No. They kept us very busy in the Navy. It 25 was not a sightseeing trip. i | | i SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 - Page86 j 1 Q. When you started with Union Carbide in 1948 2 were you aware of any advertising campaigns tosupport 3 the use of the name Bakelite as a trademark? | \ i | 4 A. I think that came later in the '50s when .the ' ' 5 .decision was made to call productsother than the ; ! ; 6 phenolics Bakelite brand plastics. We were making 7 polystyrene and polyethylene and one of our marketing 8 people decided to capitalize on that name andcall these j i : | i 9 other products Bakelite brand products. I ib Q. So it's your understanding that the term n "Bakelite" was only used to refer to phenolic resin 12 products made by Union Carbide prior to some time in the 13 1950s? 14 A. By Union Carbide. 15 Q. Right. Okay. 16 A. As far as their designation, yes. 17 Q. Did you ever see any marketing materials then 18 after the 1950s that said things like, "Make sure you 19 ask for Bakelite products by Union Carbide"? 20 A. I could have because that sounds so familiar 21 but you know I can't recall the exact advertisement'and ; 22 where it was and when I saw it. ` i. 23 Q. Other than Modern Plastics can you recall where ! 24 Union Carbide advertised its products? 25 A. That was the primary magazine that Union ! * . . ..i..j lLLvU~.-W.-J... u.y SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800) 547-4441 l/.'.TWA '-1in*r CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/5/2001 . Page 87 1 Carbide used. There may have been others but I know . 2 that was the one they feel that got the most attention 3 because everybody usually bought it. 4 Q. Do you remember the name of the law firm, that 5 handled Obion Carbide's Bakelite patent work? 6 A. We had our own patent department, our own 7 patent attorneys. 8 Q. Do you recall My of their names? . 9 . A. The patent coordinator first one that I recall 10 is Vic Auerbach. 11 Q. How do you spell his name? 12 A. A-u-e-r-b-a-c-h. '' 13 Q. Is Mr. Auerbach still living? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Is he retired? 16 . A. Yes. . 17 Q. Where does he live? 18 ' A. He's in New Jersey but I don't know the exact 19 location * . 20 Q. I just want to ask you a few quick questions ; 21 one last topic and that's with regard to bonding of 22 . phenolic resin material to the filler. And I understand 23 you haye some chemical engineering training and that 24 included courses in chemistry; did it not? ; 25 A. Oh, yes. . \ <* . * 1 \ SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 88 1 Q. Okay. And you're familiar with the physical 2 and chemical interactions of the fillers in Bakelite? 3 A. Yes, I was. *. V 4 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the chemical 5 composition of the mineral asbestos? . 6 A. I'm familiar -- what I know is that it has 7 hydroxyl groups that can be used to attach the phenolic 8 resin to it. Or with any other, you know, resin you may 9 want to react with it. 10 Q. Do you have any understanding or knowledge as 11 to whether those hydroxyl groups -- well, let me take 12 that back. Have you ever done any chemical analysis to 13 determine whether or not the hydroxyl groups on the 14 asbestos mineral actually physically altered themselves 15 to bind to the phenolic resin material itself? 16 A. They were no studies to prove that, no. All 17 our evidence was indirect. . 18 Q. When you say evidence is indirect you mean 19 theoretically speaking. 20 A. The -- you do not get good bonding with the 21 fiber you do not get the best physical properties. . Also 22 if you do not get it well mixed on the rolls when it's 23 manufactured, when you break a test bar and look at the 24 failure point you can see, you know, white specks of 25 products that were not fully disbursed. So those were SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 in tutu,-r- (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 . 1 your patience this evening. Page 90 | 2 MR. ARMSTRONG: Are you -- you want to handle 3 this deposition the way you people in northern 4 California normally handle depositions? . 5 MS. SHINING: I think that would be acceptable, 6 waiving the.court reporter as you did to hold the 7 original and we will maintain the original. 8 MR. ARMSTRONG: Can you e-mail me a transcript? 9 . (Discussion off the record.) 10 MS. SHINING: Counsel, do you agree that we may 11 use the finished e-mail version in lieu of the signed 12 version for purposes of testimony on Monday? If 13 necessary? ' 14 MR. ARMSTRONG: The finished e-mail version 15 rather than the -- . 16 MS. SHINING: Well normally, Mr.- Martino -- . 17 well, you will get an opportunity to review the 18 transcript and make any corrections but we are currently 19 in trial so we need to do some additional perhaps 20 stipulations. - 21 MR. ARMSTRONG: When are you getting the - 22 transcript, Carolin? 23 MS. SHINING: Well I am going to try to get it | 24 as fast as I can so hopefully I can have it on Monday. j 25 MR. ARMSTRONG: As long as we get it at the ' i i SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Page 91 1 same time you get it you can use the transcript at 2 trial. 3 MS. SHINING: . Understood. 4 MR. ARMSTRONG: Fair deal? 5 MS. SHINING: Fair deal. 6 THE REPORTER: Counsel, do you want an e-mail 7 transcript delivered Sunday evening? 8 MR. ARMSTRONG: Yes. 9 MR. GLASSER: Yes, I might as well. 10 (Discussion off record with regard to e-mail 11 addresses.) 12 (Exhibits were not received via fax while the 13 deposition was in session.) .14 (The deposition was concluded at 6:25 at p.m.) 15 --oOo-16 17 18 19 20 . 21 22 23 24 25 SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)347-4441 CAJLNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO 5/5/2001 Page 92 | 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE i 2 STATE OF CALIFORNIA } 3. COUNTY OF MARIN ) i 1 4 i I, SHERRY SHERRY, Certified Shorthand Reporter \ \ 5 for the State of California, certify: 6 That CARLO MARTINO, witness in the foregoing 7 deposition was by me first duly sworn to testify to the ! s i 8 truth in said cause; . .. 9, That said deposition was reported at the time 10 and place therein stated by me, CSR No. 5619, and 11 thereafter transcribed under my direction; after which, 12 the witness was- afforded the opportunity to read, ' 13 correct, and sign the deposition; . 14 That if unsigned by the witness, witness shall 15 not have availed himself the opportunity to sign, or 16 signature has been waived. 17 I further certify that I am not interested.in 18 the outcome of said action, nor connected with, nor 19 related <to any of the parties in said action, or to 20 their respective counsel. ; 21 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I hereunto set my hand 22 this 6th day of May, 2001. . 23 24 SHERRY SHERRY, CSR NO. 5619 25 SHERRYSHERRY, 5619 (800) 547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/5/2001 Page 93 1 DECLARATION OF WITNESS 2 I, CARLO MARTINO, hereby declare that I have 3 read the foregoing testimony recorded on pages 1 to 93, 4 inclusive, and the same is a true and correct 5 transcription of my testimony, except as I have . 6 indicated on the errata sheet attached hereto. 7 8 9 1. ( ) The Deponent failed to appear to read, 10 correct, or sign his/her deposition. 11 2. 12 ( ) The Deponent refused to read, review, or sign his/her deposition for the following 13 reason: 14 15 16 17 18 3. ( ) The Deponent approved his/her deposition O 19 by letter (with) or (without) corrections 20 attached hereto and made a part of this 21 deposition herein. , 22 23 24 25 SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Page 94 1 DEPONENT'S CHANGES OR CORRECTIONS Note: If you are adding to your testimony, print the 2 exact words you want to add. If you are deleting from your testimony, print the exact words you want to 3 delete. Specify, with "Add" or "Delete" and sign this form. 4 DEPOSITION OF: CARLO MARTINO 5 NAME OF CASE:. Yeager v. Union Carbide Corp. DATE OF DEPOSITION: Friday, May 4, 2001 6 I, , have the following 7 corrections to make to my deposition: 8 PAGE LINE CHANGE/ADD/DELETE 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SIGNATURE DATE SHERRY SHERRY. 5619 (800) S47-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE MARTINO S/S/2001 Mr. Carlo Martino c/o Bruce Armstrong, Esq. Haight, Brown & Bonesteel 1620 26th Santa Monica, California 90404 May 6, 2001 Job No. CSR No.'. 5619 . '. Re: Yeager v. Union Carbide Corporation . Dear Mr. Martino: . The original deposition transcript taken in the above matter on May 4, 2001 is now available for reading and signing at our office. For 35 days following this notice the deponent, either in person or by a signed letter, may change the form or the substance of the answer to any question, and may either approve the transcript of the deposition by signing it, or refuse to approve the transcript by not 'signing it. We do not release the original transcript from this office. . You may read and correct your testimony from a certified copy of the original transcript which may be purchased at CalNorth Reporting Service. . - Please telephone.this office for an appointment if you desire to review the original deposition transcript. Sincerely, CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE cc: Counsel of record SHERRY SHERRY, 5619 (800)547-4441 CALNORTH REPORTING SERVICE