Document zb5zmz5VM1J6L0kgd3XpDvk5B

STATE OF ALABAMA IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF ETOWAH COUNTY (Transferred from Calhoun County, Alabama) SABRINA ABERNATHY, et al . , Plaintiffs, versus CIVIL ACTION NUMBER CV-2001-832 MONSANTO COMPANY, et al., De f endant s . ___ _/ DEPOSITION OF DAVID CAIN The deposition of DAVID CAIN was taken before Janet F. Russo, as Commissioner, commencing at 10:15 a.m. on July 26, 2001, by the Plaintiffs, at the offices of Fite & Miller, 1000 Quintard Avenue, Anniston, Alabama pursuant to the stipulations set forth herein. Regional Reporting Service, Inc. 755 Walnut Street Gadsden, Alabama 35901-0755 HARTOLDMON0031520 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 For the Plaintiffs: 3 DONALD W. STEWART, Esq. 4 1131 Leighton Avenue Anniston, Alabama 36201 5 6 For the Defendants: 7 ADAM PECK, Esq. 8 NATASHA WILSON, Clerk LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE, LLC 9 The Clark Building 400 North 20th Street 1 0 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC . HARTOLDMON0031521 3 1 INDEX 2 3 Stipulations 4 Reporter's Certificate Page 4 135 5 6 EXAMINATIONS 7 Witness: DAVID CAIN 8 BY MR. STEWART 9 Page 5 10 No exhibits were marked for identification, 1 1 offered or attached as exhibits hereto. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031522 4 1 STIPULATIONS 2 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED, by 3 the parties, that the deposition of DAVID CAIN 4 may be taken before Janet F. Russo, as 5 Commissioner and Notary Public, Alabama at 6 Large, at Anniston, Alabama, on July 26, 2001, 7 commencing a t 10:15 a.m. 8 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED that the 9 signature to and reading of the deposition by 1 0 the witness is waived, the deposition to have 1 1 the same force and effect as if full 12 compliance were had with all laws and rules of 1 3 Court relating to the taking of depositions. 1 4 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED that it 1 5 shall not be necessary for any objections to 1 6 be made by counsel to any questions except as 1 7 to form or leading questions and that counsel 1 8 may make objections and assign grounds at the 1 9 time of trial or at the time said deposition 2 0 is offered in evidence or prior thereto. 2 1 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED that 2 2 notice of filing by the commissioner is 2 3 waived. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031523 5 1 STATE OF ALABAMA, BIRMINGHAM, JULY 26, 2001 2 3 DAVID CAIN, 4 after having been first duly sworn, was 5 examined and testified as follows: 6 7 EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. STEWART: 9 Q. Mr. Cain, I'm DonaldStewart. I 1 0 represent the plaintiffs inthis case. 1 1 Have you given adeposition 1 2 be f ore ? 1 3 A. Yes, sir. 1 4 Q. Have you given a deposition before in 1 5 this case? 1 6 A. Not in this particular case, no, sir. 1 7 Q. I'm talking about the Monsanto cases 1 8 here in Anniston. 1 9 A. I have given a deposition in the last 2 0 case we had that was settled, Owens. 2 1 Q. Owens? 2 2 A. Yes . 2 3 Q. And when did you come here, to Anniston? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031524 6 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 11 1 2 Q. 1 3 A. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Well, I came here almost a year to the date. It's been about a year. How is it that you happened to be selected, Mr. Cain, toserve as manager of this plant? How was I selected? Yeah. Well, I was -- I was informed last January that I would be plant manager at our Foley, Alabama plant, which is down near Pensacola. Why didn't you take that job? Well, I had been -- As a matter of fact, I accepted that job, to go to Foley. I was in the process of looking for a house in Pensacola. Our plant manager at the Decatur, Alabama plant announced he was going to retire. I guess it was in probably June of last year he announced his retirement abruptly. When he announced his retirement that left two plant manager jobs open. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031525 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 6 Q. 1 7 A. 1 8 Q. 1 9 A. 2 0 Q. 21 22 23 Blake was selected to go to - fill the Decatur job. And then that left still two plant manager jobs opening, in Anniston and Foley. And at that time I knew of the Anniston plant because I had been interested in it about three years ago, really. I was asked which one of these plants I wanted to go to, Foley or Anniston. When I saw the Anniston plant was open, I decided this would be a better plant for me from a growth standpoint. That was how I wound up in Anniston. Who asked that question of you? My boss, Larry Spickard. Who ? Larry Spickard. So that I understand the sequence of events, my understanding is you were scheduled to go to Foley. Were you in Foley? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031526 8 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 1 0 A. 1 1 Q. 1 2 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 Q. 2 0 A. 21 2 2 Q. 2 3 A. No. I was still in St. Louis. Doing wha t ? I was a business team leader of a unit we have there called P2S5. What is that? It's phosphorus pentasu1phide. It's used to make an oil additive. But you hadn't run a plant before, had y ou ? Yes, sir, I did. Where? I was in Greenwood, South Carolina. We have two plants there. Well, it's two plants on one site where we make carpet fibers. One plant is a residential carpet plant, and the other plant -- the south plant is the contract. So you ran one of them? I ran one of the plants, the south plant . When did you do that? I went there in 1994. And I left there REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031527 9 1 2 Q 3 A. 4 Q 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 1 4 Q. 15 16 1 7 A. 18 1 9 Q. 20 21 22 23 i n 1 9 9 8. To go to St . Louis? To go to St . Louis. Wasn't that a p romo tion ? To go to St . Louis? Yes , sir. You had move d up in the corporate headquarters in St. Louis for Monsanto or Solutia? No. When I left Greenwood, I went to the Krummrich plant. It was a promotion, but it was for Solutia. Solutia spun off in '97, and I left in '98. Let me ask you something. How did they decide at your level who you would work for? How did that happen? How did they decide who I would work for? Yeah. You were a Monsanto employee before the spin-off. Did you just automatically -- Did you have a choice whether you would stay with Monsanto or go with Solutia? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031528 10 1 A. 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 1 0 A. 1 1 Q. 12 A. 1 3 Q. 14 15 16 17 1 8 A. 19 20 2 1 Q. 22 23 Well, they decided whichplants would be Solutia and which plants were Monsanto. And the employees went with where you were. Did anything change about your compensation, benefits, anything like that? Nothing of significance. So it remained the same? It pretty much stayed the same. Everybody stayed in the sameposition? Woke up the next. Woke up the next day, and you were still working at the same plant, still had the same job, still had the same benefits ; you just had a different name on the bottom of the check? There were some differences.Obviously, there were some things that changed. But I was in the same job. So you had this promotion to go to Krummrich. And then you got another promotion to go from Krummrich to the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031529 11 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 A. 11 1 2 Q. 1 3 A. 14 Q. 15 1 6 A. 17 1 8 Q. 1 9 A. 2 0 Q. 21 22 23 corporate headquarters? No. I left from Krummrich to come to Anniston. Maybe I misunderstood. Are you saying that when you left South Carolina you went to Krummrich and you were there in St. Louis where the corporate headquarters were but you were working at the Krummrich plant? Right, exactly. The plant was in the St. Louis metropolitan area. That was a promotion? That was a promotion. How big was the plant in South Carolina? How many employees? About a thousand people. The plant that I had had three hundred people. How many are there at Anniston? Eighty-five. Do you know anything about the difference in the revenues? Do you make more money for Solutia or Monsanto at South Carolina than you do here? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031530 12 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 1 0 Q. 11 1 2 A. 1 3 Q. 1 4 A. 1 5 Q. 1 6 A. 17 1 8 Q. 1 9 A. 2 0 Q. 2 1 A. 2 2 Q. 2 3 A. Well, the volumes are much bigger. It's a bigger plant. They produce more carpet . You make more money? You make more money, yeah. The budget was bigger? The budget was much bigger. By four, five,six, seven times? In that neighborhood. Much bigger. Did you get a pay raise when you went to South Carolina to Krummrich? Yes, I did. How big is that Foley plant? Excus e me ? How big is the Foley plant? Between a hundred and fifty to two hundred people probably. Was the budget bigger? Compared to -- Anniston? The budget is probably smaller. Smaller? What do they make down there? They are in the carpet business as well. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031531 13 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 10 1 1 Q. 12 1 3 A. 14 1 5 Q. 1 6 A. 1 7 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 23 Volume just less than it was at that plant where you had three hundred people hired? The volume is significantly less. Well, it takes two hundred and fifty people to make less of the material - It is different material, I would assume -- Who do they make? It's very labor intensive. That's why it takes more people. What kind of material do you make down there? The Foley plant makes staple carpet fibers . So it's labor intensive? Very labor intensive. Alabama tends to get those kinds of plants and facilities. That's just an aside; in the way we do business; labor intensive - MR. STEWART: This is off the re cord. (Discussion held off record.) REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031532 14 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q 10 A. 11 Q 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 A. 19 Q 20 21 22 A. 23 (By Mr. Stewart) Tell me, David, are the people who serve as plant manager at Foley and Anniston on a comparable level in the company hierarchy. Would it be a parallel move or a lateral move, rather, for somebody to move from Foley to Anniston or from Anniston to Foley Would it be parallei? Lateral . Pret ty much . It could be What is it you we re told about the Anniston plant site problems when you came here, Mr. Cain, before you got here? By the way, before we -- If you don ' t mind, what is the date. if you can tell me, that you came here? The dat e ? Yeah. You said it was about a year ago. And I don't believe I got that date down . Well, I closed on my house in early August . REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031533 15 1 Q 2 A. 3 Q 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q 12 A. 13 Q 14 15 A. 16 17 18 Q 19 A. 20 21 22 Q 23 Of ? Last year. Last year. 2000? Yeah, 2000. So it would have been -- I started at the plant probably -- you know, probably a week or two before that. I would say late July, mid to late July. That's why I said it's almost a year to the day. Of 2000? Yeah. Mr. Cain, who debriefed you about the Anniston plant? I'm sorry. Initially I was briefed by my current manager, Larry Spickard. He gave me the initial briefing. What did he tell you? Well, he told me about the -- a little bit about the history of the plant. He told me about - - What did he tell you about the history of the plant? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031534 16 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 1 6 A. 17 18 19 20 21 2 2 Q. 23 He told me about how Monsanto purchased the plant and how the plant did produce PCBs in the early years. He told me about the current products, the people. He did brief me on the current environmental litigation that was ongoing. And then mostly it was on the things that I would need to know about the current operation of who's in the plant now, the products that are in the plant. What did he say to you specifically about the current environmental litigation that was taking place here in Anniston? I mean, honestly, I can't recall the specific conversation. I know he briefed me on the issue of PCBs, that we were trying to remediate the issues. But I can't recall the specific conversation. Anything else as you sit here today that you remember or recall him telling you REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031535 17 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 13 14 1 5 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 2 Q. 23 about what attempts Monsanto or Solutia were taking to remediate the situation? As I sit back and look at it now, I can't recall any specific conversation or words that were said. At this point I was trying to come up to speed in knowing more about the plant. Is that something that he considered important enough to talk to you about? Yes. And said it was specifically PCB -- the problem with PCBs that y'all were trying to address inthe environmental area? Well, he mentioned the fact that PCBs were produced in the plant and said that there was some current remediation efforts that were going on. I cannot remember exactly what his words were when he briefed me. That was one of the first conversations we had. Didyou have any more conversations with him about the Anniston plant after that REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031536 1 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 20 21 22 23 first one ? Oh, sure. I mean, as I -- Like with any other j ob. If you are going to take on something new, you are going to probably have a lot of conversations with your immediate supervisor. We had ongoing discussions about my move, my family moving, looking for a home, things that were going on in the plant. I'm talking about the Anniston plant, Mr. Cain. And really I'm trying to focus on what our purpose of being here today is. I'm just trying to find out what Mr. -- How do you pronounce it, Spickard? Spickard. -- told you about the environmental problems and the PCB problems that y'all had here at the plant. Whether it was in thefirst conversation or the subsequent conversation you had with REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031537 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 1 0 A. 1 1 Q. 12 13 1 4 A. 15 1 6 Q. 17 18 19 20 2 1 A. 2 2 Q. 2 3 A. him, if you can just tell me what he told you. I would like to know. Honestly, I can't remember specific conversations. That's not to say that it didn't happen. I can't remember the specific conversation. You have told us basically all you can remember about what Mr. Spickard told you about the situation? Yeah. You just remember a general discussion about remediation and the environmental problem and PCBs. Is that fair? I remember those conversations tothat extent, yes. Who else briefed you -- By the way, did you have the job at the time you had these conversations? Had you already been picked for the Anniston plant site at the time - - Yes. I had accepted the job. Who picked you? I was selected by Mr. Spickard. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031538 20 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 1 0 Q. 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 1 3 A. 14 1 5 Q. 1 6 A. 1 7 Q. 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 2 0 A. 2 1 Q. 22 2 3 A. Mr. Spickard? Yeah. So he has the responsibility of making that particular decision about the Anniston plant even though he was located at the Krummrich plant, or was he located at the corporate headquarters? He was corporate headquarters. What was his position? He is the director of manufacturing. For Solutia? In Solutia he is one of several How do you spell his last name? S-p-i-c-k-a-r-d. And his first name is - Larry. Is it Lawrence? No, sir. I think it's just Larry. By the way, were there other candidates up for the job in Anniston - I wouldn't know. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031539 21 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 7 Q. 18 19 2 0 A. 2 1 Q. 22 23 -- that you know about? I wouldn't know. Did you go through an interview process where they told you they were going to look at a number of people? I wouldn't know. What I went through was -- Again, I was selected for a plant manager's job in January. I was told when the Anniston job came open that I had a choice. Either way I was going to be a plant manager, whether it was Foley or Anniston. Whether or not there were other people involved that were available, I wouldn't know. You probably told me; but I guess Mr. Spickard is the one that told you that? That told me what? What you just got through saying; that you were selected for the job in Foley, but that the Anniston plant was open and REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031540 22 1 2 3 A. 4 Q 5 A. 6 7 Q 8 A. 9 10 11 Q 12 13 14 A . 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 you could go to either one of those? 0 r was it someone else? No . Who told you that? The Foley plant did not fall under Mr. Spickard. Somebody else had picked you for Foley? Let me explain. The Foley plant fell under another director of manufacturing. I guess he got hacked off when Mr. Spickard gave you the choice of the Anniston job. No, sir. The Foley plant fell under Rebecca Peterson, who was the director. Rebecca Peterson offered me the job as plant manager. When the Anniston plant came open, Rebecca asked me which -- would I prefer to go to Anniston. The Foley job is a nice job; the Anniston plant would prefer traditional -- it's a traditional plant, and it would provide good -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031541 23 1 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 1 0 Q. 1 1 A. 12 1 3 Q. 14 1 5 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 probably better plant manager type experiences than the Foley plant. Rebecca told you that? Yes. If Rebecca didn't have responsibility for the Anniston plant, how did she have the capability to make that offer to you? Had she talked to Mr. Spickard? Rebecca and Larry were peers. They talked to each other about this? I'm assuming this. That's probably what happened. I'm sure they had to. Was anybody else involved in that decision? I wouldn't know. I'm sure that HR would be invo1ve d. And one of the things we have is we have success in planning. We have a pretty good idea of where people are going, because we do career development planning. And I had been planning my career for some time, that I was slated to move REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031542 24 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 Q 13 A. 14 Q 15 16 1 7 A. 18 19 20 21 2 2 Q. 23 to a plant about the time that I moved. Mr. Cain, who else did you talk to about the Anniston plant? Can you list those people, before you came down here, who might have briefed you on the problems that existed here? I'm specifically interested in the current environmental problems the plant is experiencing. I was briefed by Dr . Bob Ka1e y. Dr. Bob ? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Anybody else other than D r . Bob Kaley? For instance, did you talk to Blake Hamilton at any point in time? Oh, yes. I talked to Blake when I accepted the job. And before I accepted the job I talked to Blake. I'm trying to -- Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to find out who you talked to first. And then I will ask REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031543 1 2 A. 3 4 5 Q 6 7 8 A. 9 10 Q 11 12 A. 13 Q 14 A . 15 Q16 A. 17 18 Q 19 20 A. 21 22 Q 23 you about Well, let's see. There was another person in the meeting with Bob that was -- What's his name? Mike Foresman. Mike Foresman. He was still with the company at that time. He is no longer with them. He is no longer with them. He was in there . He was in with Bob when y'all talked to them? When I was brief. He was in remediation? Yes. Anybody else you talked to? I don't remember anybody else being in the room other than the three of us. Where was this room? Were y'all in St. Louis? Yeah. I was still living in St. Louis at the time. What prompted this? I mean, what was the purpose of this meeting that you had REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031544 26 1 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 Q. 12 13 1 4 A. 1 5 Q. 16 17 18 1 9 A. 20 21 22 23 with Dr. Kaley and Mike Foresman? Well, I remember, you know, after Larry briefed me, asking -- you know, that I would like to know a little bit more about what's going on in the community or in the environmental arena. And Dr. Bob was -- I was informed that Dr. Bob could sit down and answer any questions that I might have about remediation. He knew the answers to the questions that you might have about that; is that Yes. Did you ask that Mike Foresman be there, or did Mr. Kaley bring him with him? Is he the one that brought Mr. Foresman to the meeting? I don't remember how Mike got there. But it was more of an introduction. Because I would be working closely with the remediation manager in Anniston who reported to Mike Foresman. So it was REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031545 27 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 A. 19 Q 20 A. 21 Q 22 A. 23 kind of an introductory meeting. Were you told at that time who the remediation manager was by Kaley? Yeah. I think I was. Would that have been Mr. Branchfield? Yeah. Yes, sir. Was he at any meeting that you might have had before you came to the plant, or did you meet him when you came to the plant? I met Craig much later. When did this conversation with Dr. Kaley take place -- and Mike Foresman, if you recall? I guess wha t I'm trying to find To put it in context, had you accepted the j ob at that time ? No . 11 was before I accepted the job. You just wanted to find out what -- Yes - - can o f worms they were handing you? I d i dn t say it was a can o f worms . But I want ed t o know what was going on REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031546 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 A. 1 0 Q. 11 1 2 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 before I accepted the job. You wanted t o know what was in the can of worms? I s that right ? MR . PECK : Object to the form of the que s tion. No, sir. I wanted to know what was going on, and I had some questions. So you asked for the meeting? I had requested it. What was said by Mr. Kaley -- or Dr. Kaley? Honestly, I can't -- There was so much that was said, I can't -- I can only give you very generalities. I can't remember. I had a lot of questions. I wanted to know about the history of PCBs, what were they made for. I wanted to know about the plant; what else did the plant make. I wanted to know about -- tell me about the remediation. There was a lot of questions. I can't remember specifically what Dr. Bob REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031547 29 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 Q. 2 0 A. 21 22 23 or Mike said in detail. But it was -- I was just throwing out questions that I had. You said you just remembered in general. Would you tell us generally what Dr. Kaley told you about the history of PCB production at the plant? I'm trying to write down those things you have told me, Mr. Cain. And Iwanted to go over those one at a time and need you to tell me. Well, let's see. I remember -- I remember askingthe purpose of PCBs. We talked about their industrial purposes. We talked about the different types of aroclors that were produced. We talked about when they stopped manufacturing PCBs. When did they tell you that happened? I can't remember the exact date. But it was 1969, '70-ish, something like that. And again, it was a lot of questions that I kept building on REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031548 30 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 6 Q. 1 7 A. 1 8 Q. 19 20 21 22 2 3 A. whenever they told me something, trying to just get a feel for the plant. What did they tell you about the rerne diation? At that time they had told me that they had gone out and had remediated certain parcels of land. And they may have mentioned specific parcels. I can't remember which parcels may have been mentioned, because they were Greek to me then; not being familiar with Anniston. But they did tell me there was a remediation plan in place and it was being implemented. Is that it, what they told you? To the best I can remember. When you say remediated certain parts of the land, what is it that they told you, Mr. Cain, about that particular process? What land did they tell you had been remediated? The one that probably sticks out in my REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031549 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 1 0 Q. 11 12 1 3 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 A. 22 23 mind that I can remember is probably The land around Mars Hill was one that probably sticks out. The church. Mars Hill church? Yeah. I mean, that's -- I justremember the church. Anything else you remember they told you about land that had been remediated? Not specifically. Now, they told you that a remediation plan was in place? Is that what they told you ? There was a plan. Did they tell you, Mr. Cain, that that plan had been worked out on a permanent basis or an interim basis? How is it that they told you - What was the status of that plan as you understood it from the conversations with Dr. Kaley and Michael Foresman? I understood it to be an active plan. Now, whether or not you want to put a label on it -- I never heard a REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031550 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2 3 A. label put on it. What did you understand an active plan to mean? Is that a term that they used or a term that you used? That's a term that I used. What do you mean by active? A plan that was -- a plan that was current. A plan that wasn't stagnant. What is it thatyou understood either from your conversations -- or your understanding as we sit here today - about that plan that's -- some of which is already in place out there at the plant; the covering of the landfill on the west side, the covering of the landfill on the south side of 202, and that work that was done around Mars Hill? What do you understand the status of that to be, permanent, in place, final deal, or interim? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. Could you ask me again? You asked me, REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031551 33 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 1 5 A. 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 Q. 22 23 A. you know, several pieces again. Is the landfill in a permanent state? If you want to take it one at atime, Mr. Cain, and it would be simpler for you, you have a perfect right to do that. Would you, please? Yeah. Whatabout the landfill west of the plant? Do you understand that to be a permanent fix for that particular problem? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. I'm not -- I'm not a hydrologist or a geologist. And I'm not in a position to speculate on the state or condition of the status of where the landfill is. I would have to refer you to Craig Branchfield. Of yourcompany, the people who are in remediation? Yes. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031552 34 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 13 14 1 5 A. 1 6 Q. 17 18 1 9 A. 20 21 Q. 2 2 A. 23 What I'm asking you is it your understanding as the plant manager of the Anniston plant -- That's a fairly important item, isn't it, as far as you are concerned? Uh-huh (indicating yes) . You have had conversations with people who are in governmental positions, have you not, about that particular site, the Anniston plant site? I have had conversations with who? Governmental officials who are involved in the remediation process here in Annis t on. Not pertaining to the landfill, sir. So you have had conversations with governmental officials; but you have not talked to them about the landfill? Could you be more specific; state, federal government officials? Any of them. I talked to ADEM about my plant, things that are going on inside my plant. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031553 35 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 1 0 A. 11 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 16 1 7 A. 1 8 Q. 1 9 A. 20 2 1 Q. 22 23 Who at ADEM have you talked to? ADEM has made -- they have made several regularly scheduled audit visits twice t o my plant. Who? I have had a visit from an auditor by the name of Ron Shell. Was he responsible for auditing the remediation work there? No, sir. It's just what -- the current operations in the plant. I'm talking about remediation in particular, Mr. Cain. Who is it that you talked to at ADEM about the remediation that's going on at the plant? I have not spoken to anyone. You don't do that kind of - I defer to my remediation manager, Craig Branchfield. He is my liaison. That's the person who has had the contact about the remediation that's going on; and you have not had any? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031554 36 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 1 2 Q. 1 3 A. 1 4 Q. 1 5 A. 16 1 7 Q. 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 2 0 A. 2 1 Q. 2 2 A. 2 3 Q. That's correct. Now, that's with ADEM? That's right. You have had some conversations with the EPA officials, have you not, about the Anniston plant? Yes, I have. Were those in Washington or in Atlanta? No, sir. Those were in Atlanta. And they were in general about the Anniston plant . In general about the Anniston plant? Yes, sir. Who did you meet with in Atlanta? I met with the RegionFour administrator. I met him. Who was that? I can't -- Was he the head of the deal? I can't remember his name, sir. Dick Green? I met Dick Green. Was he in the meeting? Was hein the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031555 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 1 0 Q. 11 1 2 A. 13 14 1 5 Q. 1 6 A. 17 18 1 9 Q. 20 21 2 2 A. 2 3 Q. meeting, running the meeting? Yes. Who else? There were several other people. I can't remember the names of the folks that were there. Do you know what their positions were or what they did? No. I can't remember. Who all was with you when this meeting was held? Glenn Rustin, who is vice president of Solutia, public affairs and governmental affairs. And Dennis Cavner. Who? Dennis Cavner, C-a-v-n-e-r. He was vice president of operations excellent; basically operations. Was Mr. Rustin housed or based in Washington? Did Mr. Rustin live in Washington? Yes, sir. And he is head of the governmental REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031556 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 Q 13 A. 14 15 Q 1 6 A. 1 7 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 operations? Governmental affairs. Governmental affairs. When was that meeting that you are referring to, where you met the regional administrator and Dick Green and some other people? I will get to those in a minute . It was shortly after I was here. I would say probably last August, maybe. I hadn't been here that long. Who arranged the meeting? I ' m not certain. It may have been Mr . Ru s tin. Mr . Ru s tin ? It may have. I don't know for certain. What was the purpose of your going over to EPA in Atlanta? Well, it was explained to me , when asked to go. it was going t o be an introductory meeting. I was the new plant manage r Anniston. It was a chance for me to REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031557 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 1 4 Q. 15 16 17 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 2 0 A. 21 2 2 Q. 2 3 A. meet those folks and for them to meet me . So the purpose of the meeting was to introduce you to the administrator over there and for them to meet with you; is that right? That's correct. Who else was at the meeting other than you and Mr. Rustin, those two people you mentioned, plus the others? Who else was there? Again, there was just several other people. I can't remember the names. Do you remember what their job or responsibility -- Were they involved in the remediation effort here and worked under Dick Green? I can't remember. I can't remember. You don't know what they did? No. They may have mentioned it. But I can't remember. How long did the meeting last? It was a very short meeting. Less than REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031558 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q 12 A. 13 1 4 Q. 15 1 6 A. 17 1 8 Q. 19 2 0 A. 21 22 23 an hour. What was discussed? I had a chance to talk a good portion of the meeting and just indicated that I was the plant manager of the plant and where I came from and that -- I wanted to put a face on the plant. Very generalities. We were there probably thirty minutes, and we were out. Whose office did you me e t in? It wasn't in a n office . It was in a conference room. A conference room? Was it not the office of the regional administrator? Not being familiar with that building, sir, I wouldn't know. You don't know? Was remediation discussed at all? I can't remember. I don't think so, because it was a very general, light conversation; "This is Dave Cain, plant manager." It was very introductory. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031559 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 A. 14 15 Q 16 A. 17 Q 18 19 20 2 1 A. 2 2 Q. 2 3 A. Tell me, if you would, Mr . Cain, if there were other meetings with EPA at any point in time at any other place that you attended with Mr. Rustin. No . The reason I ask that question -- And I may be wrong. But it's my understanding that there was a meeting held in Washington between Mr. Rustin and you and another person connected with Monsanto and EPA officials in Washington last year. No, sir. I've never been to Washington, D.C. Never in your life? Never i n my life. Do you know if such a meeting took place; whe re they wanted to put a on Monsanto for people who were involved with the EPA? In Washington, D.C.? Yes . I wouldn't know, sir. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031560 42 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 A. 13 14 Q 15 A. 16 1 7 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 A. 2 3 Q. You have no information as you sit here today about a meeting -- And I may be wrong about what Mr. Branchfield said, and he may be wrong about where y'all went . But it was my understanding that you were involved in a meeting there and there were some people from EPA. I know that in pretty good detail. And I may have misunderstood that. It may have been another plant manager. The only thing Craig could be talking about is the trip to Atlanta. So he may j ust have the location wrong? I assume. I have never been to Washington, D.C., in my life. Have you had any meetings with anybody local, Steve Spurling or anybody like that, who is associated with the EPA about what's going on out there in - out on the plant site? No, sir. Have you had a meeting with any groups REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031561 43 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 1 3 A. 14 15 1 6 Q. 17 1 8 A. 19 20 21 22 23 that are located here who are pushing for activities, citizen groups? I may have spoken at meetings, gatherings where there may have been people. But I have never been invited to a meeting to talk specifically about that issue. Spoken at gatherings? Do you mean gatherings where someone else would call them and perhaps some of those groups may be there or meetings of those groups? No. I have spoken at gatherings where I wasinvited to come and speak, and some of those people may have been there. What are those meetings that you are referring to? I'm on probably ten or eleven boards of directors of various civic groups in this city. I get invited out a lot to speak. A lot of timesthey are in places where there is probably people that are REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031562 44 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 1 1 A. 12 13 14 15 1 6 Q. 17 18 19 2 0 A. 2 1 Q. 22 2 3 A. pushing for the actions that you're talking about. What I had specific reference to was meetings where you all would have meetings with CAPs or the Community Against Pollution groups. Have you ever meet - - I never met with anybody from CAP. What about the Cobb Town-Sweet Valley group? I have met with any -- I have never met with that group. I may have met with members of those groups in various other meetings. But I never met under the umbrella of Cobb Town or CAP. When you say various other meetings, are you talking about various other meetings that might have taken place similar to what you said a minute ago? Exactly. Where you were called upon to speak and maybe some of those people were there? Exactly. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031563 45 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 A. 21 2 2 Q. 23 What about public officials here in Anniston or Calhoun County? Have you met with any public officials who are located here in Calhoun County since you were made plant manager here at Anniston? I'm on, again, eleven or twelve boards. I met with -I mean particularly about the remediation problem. Not that I can recall. Did you ever attend a meeting at the Caldwell Building here in Anniston that was called by a young fellow named Pete Conroy ? MR. PECK: Caldwell building, did you say? MR. STEWART: Caldwell Building. A building on Noble Street. I don't know where the Caldwell Building is . It's on Noble Street; at the corner of 10th and Noble. There used to be a REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031564 46 1 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 1 0 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 restaurant downstairs. And the meeting was on the third floor. Oh, that's where we have Rotary. No, I did not. Did representatives from your outfit go there and make a presentation to that group ? I don't know which particular group you are talking about, Mr. Stewart. It was a group called together -- And I want to know whether ithappened during your watch, whether or not you were involved in that meeting. Itwas a group of city officials and county officials. And this was a briefing that Mr. Conroy arranged sometime -- maybe six months ago, seven months ago -- it would have been after you became plant manager -- for what was happening at the Anniston plant about the PCB problem. Do you recall that meeting? If you didn't and weren't a participant in REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031565 47 1 2 3 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q 14 15 A. 16 Q 17 A. 18 1 9 Q. 2 0 A. 2 1 Q. 22 2 3 A. the meeting, we can go on to something else, Mr. Cain. I'm just trying to find out if you recall it. I do not recall the meeting, and I did not participate in such a meeting. Have you met with any governmental officials about the remediation problem -- that's really what I'm trying to focus on here today -- at the Anniston plant site at any point in time since you have been here? No, sir. No one f rom the city council and no one from the county c ommis sion ? No, sir. What about the legislators? Have I met with any legislators about the remediation at the plant? Right . No, sir. Have you had any connection or contact with the Oxford City Council? No, sir. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031566 48 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 14 1 5 Q. 16 17 18 19 2 0 A. 21 22 23 What about the folks at the mall, Mr. Grimmer and that crowd? Were you involved at all in any way in discussions with those people? No, sir. What have you had to do with the remediation here, the plan that you all have in place; nothing? Craig Branchfield is the remediation manager. And he keeps me apprised of what's going on and what he's doing in his area. And I'm kept abreast of it almost on a daily or weekly basis; depending on our schedules. Other than your conversationwith him about what has taken place on the basis that you talked about, the frequency that you talked about, what other involvement do you have? Well, I participate in some of the decision making that will involve the site. My involvement is -- Again, Craig REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031567 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 1 8 A. 19 20 21 22 23 keeps me abreast of what's going on. So I guess you would say it's more of a - The plan is pretty much in place. And if there is changes to it, Craig will come to me and ask me for my support. Or if he needs something from me, if something -- if he needs a resource that I can give him, I provide that. But I look to Craig to pretty much be my advisor in that remediation role. So you say that you participate in the decision making which involves the site. What decisions have you been involved in in connection with the remediation on the sites since you have been here? Well, there has been -- Again, in generalities, there has been some things that I have had to bless with my approval on some of the minor things ; such as, for example, Mars Hill church. They were having a problem with REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031568 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 1 1 A. 12 13 14 15 1 6 Q. 17 18 19 20 2 1 A. 22 23 somebody backing up their car to the church, driving through the fence, and literally breaking into the church and stealing equipment out of the church. That property is part of the remediation program. And I approved Craig to put in necessary security measures to prevent such an activity. What other arrangements -- decisions, rather, have you been involved in? I can't remember any real specific, big -- Nothing, really. I make decisions daily. I can't remember anything specific that would -- that would change or alter the plan that's in place. Now, what do you understand that plan to be ? You are the plant manager in Anniston. What do you understand that remediation plan to be? I believe and understand it to be that we will -- in those areas where we feel that we are responsible for PCBs leaving REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031569 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q23 A. our sites that we will make every attempt to try to remediate those areas. And this is off site that you are talking about? Yes, sir. It is my understanding that from the comment -- And certainly I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to make sure I clearly understand what you just got through telling me. Am I to understand from what you just told me that you feel like what y'all have done on the site is over? And by site I mean the plant site andthe area you purchased around the plant which is yours. Y'all are through with that; is that the right ? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. Would you please restate that? Yeah. Thank you . REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031570 52 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 Q. 20 21 2 2 A. 23 I will be glad to. And I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm just trying to understand what you say. You are telling me that -- It sounds as if you were referring to off-site activity. If there is something off site that y'all feel like is your responsibility, then y'all plan to make every effort to remediate that. And what I asked you was, based on that response, am I to understand that you feel like what y'all have done so far on the plant site -- that takes care of the problem; that problem is taken care of? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. You don't have to do anything else there? MR. PECK: Same objection. Well, I think that -- what I believe is that we will continue to do what we have REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031571 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 4 A. 1 5 Q. 16 1 7 A. 1 8 Q. 1 9 A. 2 0 Q. 21 22 2 3 A. done in the past. And that is to work with the regulatory agencies and community leaders and local officials in trying to arrive at some resolution that's fair for everybody. I believe that. Mr. Cain, isn't involved in that the cheapest, least expensive way for Solutia to get out of this mess? Isn't that really what you just got through telling me that y'all were trying to do? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. No. I disagree. Do you know anythingabout this conservation corridor? I know very little. What do you know about it? Just very little. Well, I'm asking you what that very little is, Mr. Cain. It's a real straightforward question. That it would protect certain easements; REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031572 54 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 1 0 A. 1 1 Q. 1 2 A. 1 3 Q. 1 4 A. 1 5 Q. 16 17 18 1 9 A. 2 0 Q. 21 22 23 right-of-ways of certain waterways. Do you even know where they are; the name of them? I believe it's Choccolocco Creek. Choccolocco Creek? You are not real sure if it is? No, sir. Whose handling that? Who engineered that? I don't know who engineered -- Whose idea was it? I don't know. Do you know how much it's going to cost? No, sir. I don't know. Do you know whether or not inthat plan, the remediation plan, if there is any money budgeted to dredge portions of Choccolocco Creek? No, sir. I don't know. Is that budget that would be put together for remediation separate and apart from your budget here at the Anniston plant? Is that something Craig REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031573 55 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 1 0 Q. 11 1 2 A. 13 14 Q. 15 1 6 A. 1 7 Q. 18 1 9 A. 2 0 Q. 21 22 A. 2 3 Q. is responsible for, and you don't have any responsibility for it? That's correct. Do you understand theconservation corridor idea to involve dredging of Choccolocco Creek? No, sir, I don't understand that. Sir? No . Are you telling me that it would not involve dredging Choccolocco Creek? Your question was did I understand it, and I said no. You just know that it has to do with easements? Yes. Do you know where thoseeasements would be located? No, sir. Just along the creek? Is that what you understand? Yes, sir. Why is it that you understand Monsanto REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031574 56 1 2 3 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 1 1 A. 12 1 3 Q. 14 1 5 A. 1 6 Q. 17 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 2 0 A. 2 1 Q. 22 2 3 A. would be interested in buying up easements? Is that what they are going to do along the creek? I don't know that, sir. I don't know that that's what that plan says. Other than Mr. Branchfield, who do you know is invo1ve d in that? I don't know. What governmental officials are involved in it that you know about? I don't know. I don't talk to Craig that much aboutthat particular project. What about the liner for Snow Creek? What do you know about that? Very little; nothing. Do you understand that that's in the plan or in the works? No, sir. A liner for Snow Creek? No, sir. I don't know that. What little do you know about it, Mr. Cain? About the liner in Snow Creek? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031575 57 1 Q2 A. 3 4 Q5 6 7 8 9 1 0 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 1 6 A. 17 18 19 20 2 1 Q. 22 23 Right. I know nothing about a liner for Snow Creek. Why is it, Mr. Cain, they have kept you in the dark as plant manage r here in Anniston about the remediation efforts going on off site? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. No, sir. I don't believe I'm in the dark. You don't know anything about the -- And you may. I just asked you about the liner. Do you know anything about the plan on Snow Creek for remediation? If you are asking me about specific details, I would refer you to Craig Branchfield. But that doesn't mean that I'm in the dark of what's going on as far as remediation is concerned. Tell me what you understand so that I 'm assured that you are not in the dark about what's going to happen on Snow REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031576 58 1 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 A. 14 15 Q16 A. 17 18 1 9 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 Q Creek. I'm not I'm not well-versed in all the activities that's going on with that plant or have gone on with it. But again, I would refer you to Craig Branchfield. That doesn't mean that what Craig is doing I'm totally blind to. What do you know about the cleanup of the 11th Street ditch? What has Craig or anybody else shared with you about that? I know that Craig is in the process of zing the 11th Street ditch. How so? Well, under the guidance of the AOC he is sampling the ditch and characterizing what's in the ditch. Do you have any idea or understanding of the levels that he's finding in the ditch, Mr. Cain? I have not seen any results. Do they even give you the results, or do REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031577 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 A. 1 0 Q. 11 12 13 1 4 A. 1 5 Q. 16 17 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 20 2 1 A. 22 2 3 Q. they bypass you? No. I haven't seen any results. Have you seen any results from the creek, Snow Creek? I can't remember. Have you seen any results from any tests that were taken of fish or sediment or surface water in Choccolocco Creek? I can't remember. Did you see the sampling results of the ball field or know anything about the Oxford ball field, what's happening down there? I remember seeing some of the results. Who gave the check to the school in Oxford? Were you in the paper when they handed the check? Which check, sir? Was there any money given from the Anniston plant to the school in Oxford? I gave checks to several schools, and Oxford was one of them. When did that happen? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031578 60 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 9 1 0 Q. 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 13 14 1 5 A. 16 1 7 Q. 18 1 9 A. 20 21 2 2 Q. 23 I gave out several checks last week. In Oxford? In Jacksonville. I'm asking about Oxford, Mr. Cain. And I'm sorry. That was probably a poorly worded question. If you asked me where I gave the money, I gave the money at a luncheon presentation in Jacksonville. Jacksonville. That was last week? Last week. Was that check involved and those checks you made out made payable to the Oxford City School System? Last week there was a check to the Oxford Board of Education. For how much money; ten thousand dollars? I can't remember. It was probably ten thousand or less. It wasn't -- It was basedon a grant that theysubmitted. A grant thatthey submitted. When did they submit the grant? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031579 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 1 3 Q. 14 15 1 6 A. 17 18 Q 19 20 A. 21 22 Q 23 A. Well, I can't remember the date. It was due by June 1st of this year. I believe it was June 1st. Any other money you have given to the City of Oxford in the last six months? I have not. I don't mean you personally. I'm talking about Solutia. That's what I mean. I f there was money given, I would have been invo1ve d in it There were no funds that left the plant to the City of Oxford. Tell me if there were any monies given to the Anniston schools in the past six months. Yes. Anniston was at the same meeting Oxford received it. They received a check in the same amount ? No . Their check was for twenty-nine thousand, I believe. Was that a grant ? That was a grant. They submitted a REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031580 1 2 Q 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. grant too. Now , what i s i t that you understand -And so I get i t clear - - I don't think I gave you an opportunity t o answer or to respond to this. But what is it you understand. Mr . Cain, is the ove ra11 remediation You were sort of vague. And I want sort of get some idea. You indicated Craig talked to you about the 11th Street ditch, Snow Creek, and Choccolocco Creek. You also indicated that he talked to you about things on the plant site. But what is it that you understand or is fixed in your mind that this plan -- the remediation plan is as far as Solutia's position? I'm not talking about anybody else. I'm talking about So1ut ia . MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. Could you restate that question; maybe REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031581 63 1 2 Q 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 Q 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q 21 A. 22 23 Q rephrase it? see i f I can simplify it. What do yo u unde r a l and '/ ail s remediation plan is here in Anniston at the plant site as far as PCBs is concerned? Well, again, I repeat what I said before, which was in those places where PCBs have left our site, that's what we have tried to remediate. So if PCBs left your site and got on somebody's residential property, y'all plan to clean it up? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. On those places where, you know, PCB levels have exceeded what the government would allow, I think we would make an attempt to clean it up. What is that? My understanding is ten parts per billion is the trigger. Is that an emergency kind of cleanup, or REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031582 64 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 10 11 1 2 Q. 13 1 4 A. 15 16 1 7 Q. 18 1 9 A. 20 21 22 23 is it long-term? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. That's it, as you understand it? That's my understanding. And what government official told you that? I can't remember where I read it. Somewhere. It was in some literature. I can't remember if it was an EPA document or what. I can't remember. Did it come asa result of conversations you had with them or a document? It would have been, again, something I read somewhere. I just don't remember where I read it. Related specifically to the Anniston plant? No, sir. It was in general. It wasn't specifically to Anniston or the Anniston plant. MR. PECK: I need a bathroom break when you are ready. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031583 65 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 A. 13 14 1 5 Q. 16 17 1 8 A. 19 2 0 Q. 21 22 23 MR . STEWART: Let me finish this line of questioning. MR. PECK: That's fine. (By Mr. Stewart) Have you had any conversations, Mr. Cain, with Craig Branchfield about that ten part per billion and that being it; anything above that, that's the cleanup y'all have to do on residential property? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. I can't remember. Craig and I talk all the time. I can't recall the specific conversation. Could it be that he's the one that's the source of that, that understanding you have ? No, sir. Craig was not the source of that understanding. It's a document that -- Was it a government generated -- It wasn't something y'all generated; it was something that the government generated? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031584 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q- A. Q A. Q A. Q Yes, sir. In connection with the Anniston plant site? No, sir. I remember reading it on something I went out and done, a search on my own on the internet. Was that internet search related to the Anniston site or just the general rules? It was not related to the Anniston site. What else do you understand is part of the remediation program for residential property? Anything else that y'all have in place; whether it's an agreement with the government or what? I don't need to speculate. I don't know, sir. MR. STEWART: You can go take a break. (A break was taken.) (By Mr. Stewart) What do you understand about the landfills out there from your briefing? Did they tell you what was buried in them? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031585 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A No, sir. NNoott ssppeecciiffiiccaallllyy.. Did you not find it something that you wanted to know, Mr. Cain, before you came down here, as to what was buried in the landfills? No, sir. That wasn't tops on my list. My understanding was that it was capped and nothing else was going in it. You are talking about the west landfill and the south landfill? That's right. So it didn't matter to you what was in there? My understanding was that what was there was safe. Who told you that? I can't remember if it was -- I can't remember. I know it came up in one of the earlier discussions. I can't remember who it was that said it. Could it have been Mr. Kaley? I don't know. It could have been. I don't know. I can't remember. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC HARTOLDMON0031586 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. What responsibility, Mr. Cain, do you have for reporting to the federal government about what stuff is located on the plant site, in your landfills? Well, we sample our out-falls on a regular basis, and we send that data to the government. When you say out-falls, are you talking about discharge points off the plant? Uh-huh (indicating yes). What about the groundwater monitoring? That's included in that. Some of that is included in that. Do you recall sitting here today whether or not y'all haveseen PCBs in any of those groundwater tests that are made? Yeah. I do recall we flagged one spot; a discharge point around the warehouse inside the plant. A warehous e ? MR. PECK: He is asking you about groundwater monitoring well s amp1e s . REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031587 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Well, that's a little bit different. But that was a run-off. .a. run -- off at tne warenouse hadPCBs xn it? We had a sample that had some PCBs in it . What was the level? I don't remember. Who did the testing? I can't remember who did the testing. What about in your groundwater? No . You have had no groundwater test or analyses that showed the presence of PCBs in the groundwater here in Anniston since you have been here? Not in the twelve months I have been here. What wouldthat indicate to you if you found it in there? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. I would be surprised if it was there. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031588 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. I'm not asking for your reaction. I'm asking you what would that indicate to you . MR. PECK: Same objection; no foundation. MR. STEWART: For the record, Mr. Branchfield indicated there were some PCBs found in the groundwater. MR. PECK: My no foundation is his lack of qualification to answer it. That's what I mean by no foundation. I 'm not questioning that. MR. STEWART: What I want you to know is I didn't ask him the question without having knowledge of the fact that some had been found. I'm just asking him as the plant manager here in Anniston what that would indicate to him as the plant manager. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031589 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q- A. Q MR. PECK: Same objection; no foundation. Weil, I mean, I'm not -- I'm not qualified technically to answer that. It would indicate the presence of PCBs. But it would cause me to ask questions about it. What questions would you ask? I would then ask somebody to tell me where they came from. If the groundwater well, the test well, the monitoring well was located downgradient from a landfill, you would want to know, would you not, Mr. Cain, whether or not it came from that landfill; wouldn't you? I'd ask for some advice or some investigation be done to try and find the source. How old are you, Mr. Cain? I 1 m forty years old. You seem to be on an upwa rd mobi1e path i n S o 1 u t i a , earlier Monsanto . Would REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031590 72 1 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 8 A. 9 10 11 12 Q 13 A. 14 Q - 15 16 17 1 8 A. 1 9 Q. 20 21 22 23 that be a fair assessment of it? I don't know. You would have to ask the outside world. To me it's something I have been working on all my life. I understand that. Is it a fair position, comparably speaking, to people your age who are relatively bright? I know other people that are doing at my age more than I'm doing. So again, it's relative. I have friends that are doing more than I'm doing. You ' re apparently a good manager. I 1 d like to think s o . So whe n you f ound something like that in the groundwater, you would want to know -- as I understand what you're telling me -- where it came from? That's a fair assumption. And as a practical matter, wouldn't you ask the question, "Craig, find out for me how much stuff is buried up there"? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; calls for REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031591 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. speculation. If you're asking me to assume that it came from the landfill, then I don't know that. I said I would ask to tell me -- "Can you tell me where it came from?" I wouldn't assume it came from t he landfill . Let's say it came from the landfill. That would be speculating. I don't know that. But you would want to know that, wouldn't you? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. Same objection; calls for speculation. Again, I would just ask, "Help me understand where it came from." You would want to know whether or not it came from your landfill, wouldn't you, Mr. Cain? I would ask, "Help me understand where it came from." REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031592 74 1Q 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 A 22 Q 23 Wouldn't you assume if it was downgradient -- the monitoring well was downgradient from the landfill - - What do you understand that's supposed to be monitoring? Well, sir, I'm not a hydrologist. I don't -- I would be speculating. I'm an electrical engineer. I would be speculating on hydrology. The hydrology of what? Of how water flows. In and around that landfill; the groundwater you are talking about? In general. Has anybody told you anything about that? MR. PECK: About what? About what ? The hydrology of the earthunder that landfill . No, sir. No; they have never told you that? Mr. Foresman or Dr. Kaley or Craig REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC HARTOLDMON0031593 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. never told you anything about that? They may have explained it to me or talked about it. But I don't recall it. What about the west landfill? Do you know anything about the hydrology? I don't recall. The way the water flows onto that west 1andfill? I don't recall. We may have talked about it, but I don't recall. Those are on your plant site, and those are your responsibility, aren't they, Mr. Cain? Are you saying yes? I'm saying yes. Would that not be information that you would need in order to make an informed decision about the source of the PCBs? If it came down to making a decision, I would ask for the necessary information to make a balanced decision. You are asking me to speculate. And I can't speculate not having all the facts and information in front of me to REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031594 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. make a decision. What do you understand, from your conversation with Dr. Kaiey and Mr. Foresman or Craig Branchfield or anybody, the remediation on the south landfill was done for? Why was that capped over? The landfill south of 202 was capped before you came here. Do you remember that? Did they tell you that? Yes . Why did they tell you they capped it? I can't recall that specific conversation. Did they tell you whether or not it was capped for PCBs? Did you understand it was done for PCBs and the PCB problems? My understanding is that there is probably some PCBs there, but I can't recall specifically -- In that landfill, and that's why they capped it? MR. PECK: Object to the form of REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031595 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. the que s tion. I can't recall that specifically nothing but PCBs are in there. I don't know what's in the landfill. So you don't know as you sit here today, Mr. Cain, as the plant manager here in Anniston, why they capped the landfill that's south of 202? I know that there is some PCBs there. And I'm - - Under that cap? My assumption is that there is. My assumption is also that it was capped to -- just as a protective measure. To prevent PCBs from mobilizing and leaving the plant site? That's pretty much the purpose of the landfill in capping it. On the south landfill? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. Again, I'm speaking in general from a REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031596 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. layman's term of understanding caps and landfills . You are unlike, say, as a normal lay person as you sit here today. You have a plant that had a PCB problem. And you are the manager and this is the site that you are responsible for; isn't it? That ' s correct . Now, part of your responsibilities, Mr. Cain, if I'm not mistaken -- and you correct me if I'm wrong -- is to make sure you don't harm your neighbors. Is that right? That ' s correct . So wouldn't it be a part of your responsibility and wouldn't you want to know, despite the cap, if you still had a problem with PCBs leaving that 1andfill? No, sir. I don't believe PCBs are leaving that landfill. My understanding of that -- What do you base that on? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031597 79 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 Q. 12 13 14 15 1 6 A. 17 18 19 2 0 Q. 21 2 2 A. 2 3 Q. I base that on the science and the experts that were responsible for building that landfill and that cap. My understanding is that it's safe and that there are no PCBs leaving that 1andfill. And I base it on the samples that Craig Branchfield has shown me of run-off from those sites, that there are no PCBs leaving that particular site. Would your source of your information about that be Dr. Kaley and Craig Branchfield and Foresman? Is that the sum total of the source, or are there other people that you talked to? I'm sure there are other people. I can't remember. I know that I have spoken to those three and others about landfills. And you are basing it on the tests that have been performed? On the samples, yes. The s amp1e s . REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031598 80 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 1 4 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Have you ever seen a dye test result done on that landfill? No, sir. What about air tests? Has he shown you air s ampling? I have not seen air samplings on the site. In the twelve months that you have been here as plant manager of Anniston, Mr. Branchfield has not shown you any air sample results? I can't remember seeing air sample results. I can't remember. If you saw PCBs first in those air samples and you knew the air samplers were located - Well, let me ask you so that Adam doesn't object and earn that huge fee that he's going to be paid for coming over here today. MR. PECK: You are just guaranteeing an objection, aren' t you ? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031599 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. MR. STEWART: I'm trying to. I want you to earn your money. (By Mr. Stewart) Do you know if there is any air sampling going on or a plan for the south landfill and the west landfill? I am aware that either they occurred or are in the process of occurring, air s amp ling. And would you not want to know if those -- If they have occurred before you came o r are going on now, would you not want t o know, Mr. Cain, whether or not they were finding PCBs in the air? Yes , sir. You would consider that to b e significant? I would. Why? Again, it's nodifferent than the example you gave of if I saw PCBs in the groundwater. I would want to know. If there were PCBs leaving the landfill, I REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031600 1 2 Q 3 A. 4 Q 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 1 0 A. 11 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 2 A. 2 3 Q. would want to know. By air? i would want to know. Do you know anything about the vapor flux tests that are being performed, Mr. Cain? No, sir, I don't. Have you ever heard that terminology used? No, sir. That's the first I have heard of it. The first you have heard of it? You would want to know the answers to the questions about the groundwater and about the air because of -- I would assume -- And I c don't want to put words i n your mouth. If you agree with me, I would appreciate it if you would tell me yes or no - - because you are responsible to the community that's around the plant; wouldn't you? That's a fair assumption. Because if it was leaving the plant REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031601 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. site, there is a distinct possibility it might affect your neighbor? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. I don't know. Again, I would be speculating in saying that if it left the plant site it was going to affect my neighbor. Where would it go? Your question was would it affect my neighbor. And I1m not qualified to say that PCBs are going t o have an imp act o n this person because i t went to his property. Well, by affect the ne i ghbo r, I mean t o get on his property . He might breathe it if it' s in the air, wou1dn1t he ? MR . PECK: Object to the form; no foundation. Again, I' m not technically qualified o r medically qualified t o say that if it left the air it might affect the neighbor. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031602 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q A. Q. I'm not asking you to get into a discussion -- And I will rephrase the question so you don't have to. He might breathe it, might he? It's in the air; off-gassing from your landfill; leaving the plant site. There is a distinct possibility, is there not, Mr. Cain, the neighbor that lives in the area might breathe it; isn't there? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. A possibility exists anywhere you go. How is that, Mr . - - Well, you are s aying if it got into the air. If an air molecule is in the air, common sense says there is a chance you can breathe it. If it was in levels that were fairly significant, off-gassing from your plant -- All I'm asking you, Mr. Cain, is one of the reasons you would want to know that is because of the fact that it REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031603 85 1 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 10 1 1 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 Q. 22 2 3 Q. might affect -- or your neighbor might breathe it. It might be deposited on his property. I don't know that. Well, why did they cap it? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; asked and answered; no foundation. I don't know. I'm not the landfill e xp e r t . You know, I'm not a landfill expert, Mr. Cain. And there are a lot of people in this room, and none of them are. But why would you cap the landfill? I mean, that's just a common sense question I'm asking. Why did you understand that they capped this 1andfill? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. What's the purpose of that cap? MR. PECK: Same objection. How long have you worked for Monsanto or REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031604 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 1 1 A. 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 A. 20 21 2 2 Q. 23 Solutia? Sixteen, seventeen years. And you have been around a landfills before. Or have you? Uh-huh (indicating yes) . And you understand the purpose -- I thought you told me earlier the purpose of the cap was to prevent the stuff from leaving the reservation. Didn't you tell me that? Yes. That's what I said. And so your concern about that stuff being in the air would be because you wouldn't want it to leave the reservation. Isn't that what it would be based on, Mr. Cain? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. My understanding is if the cap is on it it's not going to leak into the air; is my own personal understanding. Of the type cap you have got there that you wouldn't be finding it -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031605 87 1 A. 2 3 Q 4 5 A. 6 Q 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 13 Q 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 My understanding of caps in general. not going t o leave. not going t o leave. m 1 ln_ d_ xL_ i ,3 your understanding? Yes. . You gained that from Dr. Kaley and Foresman, or just general knowledge you have acquired since you have been with Monsanto? That's just knowledge I have acquired since being alive, sir. It's not just Monsanto. It's just what I believe. So am I to understand that -- and I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth -- that you would not be concerned for your neighbor if you felt that thing was off-gassing -- the landfill was off-gassing PCBs and leaving the reservation through the air? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. Sir, my understanding is -- my own personal belief of caps is it's not REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031606 88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q- leaving through the air on their landfill. So even if you had some air samples that showed that, you would not feel as the Anniston plant manager that you had any responsibilities to correct whatever the problem was that was giving you that stuff, giving you those readings? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation; calls for speculation. I wouldn't know. I would be speculating if I - - You wouldn't feel any responsibility to share it with the community that that might be happening? I wouId be speculating . I don't know. I ' d have to be in that situation. I ' m asking you as the plant manage r, if you knew it wa s c oming off there, M r Cain, i f you would not feel a responsibility to share that with the c o mmunit y ? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031607 89 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 5 Q. 16 17 1 8 A. 19 20 21 22 23 Q. MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. If I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt -- Right. -- that all samples -- that everything indicated that it came from my landfill, I would -- I would want to understand how it left the site -- First of all, I don't believe it would leave the site, so I would merely just be speculating. I'd have to see proof that it came from thelandfill, which I don't believe that it would come frombecause of the cap. But if it did come from the landfill, you would want to share it with your neighbor? Again,it's a scenario that I would have to be in that situation to see what were all the factors, what information did I havein front of me that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt and in speculating. If you knew it was killing fish in Snow REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031608 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. Creek, you would want to tell your neighbors too, wouldn't you? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. It's again speculating. But you would want to tell your neighbors about it. If stuff leaving your plant was killing fish in the creek and could harm those neighbors, you would want to tell them about it, wouldn't you, Mr. Cain? It's a real simple yes or no. Just tell me yes or no. I'm sorry, Mr. Stewart. It would be speculating. And you wouldn't write on any document that you weren't going to tell the neighbors, would you? They wouldn't find a document with David Cain's signature on it that said, "Don't tell the neighbors," would they, Mr. Cain? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031609 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. I would have to see the situation that it was in. You areasking me to speculate again. That's not how I manage - - If you didn't tell the neighbors or attempt to protect the neighbors and take some kind of corrective action, you would be violating the code that y'all have to live by as plant managers of Monsanto. Isn't one of y'all' s responsibilities as plant managers for a Monsanto or Solutia plant -- And I don't know whether that was transferred when it was spun off or not. But do you remember what Mr. Mahoney said about what your responsibility was to your neighbors? I think it was in the '80s. What specific -- Did anybody ever tell you about that, what your responsibility was to your neighbors? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031610 92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. What specific code are you referring to, Mr. Stewart? Somewhere in all these documents we have gotten. We get them in grips and grabs from Adam. But whenever we get one, it tends to be informative. And there was a code that said - sort of a pledge or a promise called the Monsanto Pledge that says how you treat your neighbors, the people who live around your plant. Uh-huh (indicating yes) . If you didn't tell your neighborsabout the danger -- All I was asking is wouldn't you be violating that pledge if it was publically made? You are speculating and tying those two events together, the pledge and that event. Did you have any responsibility, Mr. Cain -- Well, let me ask you. Did you know about the pledge before I mentioned it? Did anybody ever tell you REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031611 93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q A Q Q A Q A that y'a11 had a responsibility to those folks that live around your plant not to hurt t hem? That's not what the pledge says. I recall the pledge - What does the pledge say? I can't remember specifically what the pledge says. It doesn't say anything about your responsibility to your neighbors, to make sure that discharges don't come off your plant and hurt your neighbors or the environment? I'm sure the pledge is not that specific, sir. You don't remember it being that specific ? I don't . Do you remember anything in general requiring you to have that kind of attitude toward your neighbors in the pledge? That was in the '80s. I started with REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC HARTOLDMON0031612 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 Q - 14 A . 15 Q 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q 23 A. the company in '85 as an engineer. By the time I got management responsibilities, I don't recall. So there is nothing that you are taught as a manager about that pledge -- Have y1 all discarded that? We are no longer Monsanto, sir. So in the spin-off to Solutia you discarded what y1 all felt like was that responsibility to the neighbors? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. You don 1' t have any ? I don't recall. I don 1 t . Are you responsible or did you have any involvement in the -- putting together this response on behalf of Solutia to the CERCLA section 104(e) request for information that was related to the Anniston site? No , sir. Who did that? That probably was before my time REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031613 95 1 Q- 2 A. 3 Q 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q- 20 A. 21 22 23 Q Have you seen it? No, sir. Are you familiar with and have you had conversations with people about why Monsanto wasn't forthcoming about the mercury discharges from the plant site? MR. PECK: Object to the form. Object to the characterization of the question. MR. STEWART: That's how The Star had it. MR. PECK: You're not one to say The Star always gets it right, are you, Donald? MR. STEWART: Well, I thought that was a good article. MR. PECK: I suspect you did. (By Mr. Stewart) Sir? Rephrase that question, because I was lost in thought on The Anniston Star after you said that. Well, have you ever met anybody from The REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031614 96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Star? I met -- Well, I know Brandy. Brandy and I are on a board together. Brandy Ayers? Yes. The editor, publisher? Yes. I'm talking about people who really work down there . Have you ever met with anybody that works at The Star? Well, the managing editor I met. Chris Waddle? No. Troy Turner. Who? Troy Turner. Has Chris moved up since I last talked to him? Yeah. I met Chris, though. What was the purpose of your meeting with Mr. Turner? He is my neighbor. But you didn't have a meeting REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031615 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. specifically about Solutia or remediation or that kind of stuff; you just knew him socially? No . When he first came to t own and found out h e lived by me , he was my neighbor, I invited him out to lunch. We went out to lunch. We went out and talked about Jacksonville, where we lived. We talked about Solutia in general. That was pretty much it. Where do you live? In Jacksonville. Okay. So you don't live in Anniston? No, sir. What do you know about the misinformation story that appeared in The Anniston Star about mercury? Strike that. Let me ask you is that the first time you knew that there had been mercury discharges from this plant? That story was false. We did not discharge mercury from the plant. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031616 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Tell me who told you it was false. Well, I spoke with several people about that story. Who? I spoke with Jerry Brown. Jerry Brown. I spoke with Bob Kaley. And who else? There may have been some others. I don't remember exactly who. Those were probably the two principals I spoke with about that story. What did Mr. Brown tell you about it? He merely just explained to me that - you know, we did use mercury in our chlorine production and that it pretty much was a closed loop system. Closed loop? Uh-huh (indicating yes) . I assume y'all are planning on suing The Star for this false allegation that they made about mercurydischarges? I plan on-- MR. PECK: Object to the form of REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031617 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. the que s tion I'm not going to answer on the grounds of - - I don ' t know what we can d o legally . But I plan on responding in letter to the editor. Is somebody helping you write that? Is Dr. Bob helping you - No, sir. David is going to do that? I am very comfortable writing, sir. You are going to tell The Star what, a closed loop system, no mercury discharges? I will in so many words indicate that story is not true. We did not release fifty tons of mercury into the c ommunit y. Was it ten or five tons? No, sir. You all did not discharge any mercury into Snow Creek and subsequently into Choccolocco Creek. That's your position? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031618 10 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. My position will be that -- My position will be that fish sampling in 1970 and another sampling done in the '90s indicated that the levels of mercury were lower than what the FDA allowed for fish consumption. Did anyone, including Mr. Brown, tell you anything about fish studies that might have been done before those dates that you're talking about? No. Not that I can remember. If there had been fish studies done before that day, would you want to know about that? I would have been surprised that The Anniston Star didn't report it in the story. I will go with Adam on that one. Sometimes they don't get everything right . They got the discharge right, Mr. Cain, but sometimes they don't get everything right. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031619 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 10 1 But wouldn't you want to know about those other fish studies before you write this letter off to The Anniston Star? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. MR. STEWART: I'm trying to help Mr. Cain, Adam. I like him. THE WITNESS: You're trying to help me re-write the story? MR. STEWART: Before y'all stick him out there without being fully informed. I'm trying to get him fully informed. MR. PECK: Are you talking about fish studies on mercury? MR. STEWART: I'm talking about fish studies, Adam, on Choccolocco Creek. That's what I'm talking about. I want Mr. Cain to be fully informed. In fact, if you'll give me permission, I REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031620 10 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 1 3 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 A. 20 21 22 23 may send them to him. THE WITNESS: You can help me write the story, then, Mr. Stewart. MR. STEWART: I will be glad to, Mr. Cain. (By Mr. Stewart) Wouldn't you want to know those exist? If there was a fish study that was done before that that would have levels that would contradict the 1970 and the '90 study, I think it would be interesting. Now, you were going to tell me all that you were going to say in that story. But I just want to know if you were going to say that there were no mercury discharges that came from the Monsanto plant. I don't know if I can say there were zero discharges from the plant. I don't know. But I do know there wasn't fifty tons of mercury released into the environment. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031621 10 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. Q. A. Q. A. So Mr. Bryant, who was quoted in the story, that said it was just sewered into the tributaries that lead away from the plant and into Snow Creek is just not telling the truth? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. Mercury,I believe. Idisagree with what he said. That's a former Monsanto employee that said that anybody who said it was a closed loop system and there were no discharges was telling a story. MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. That would require that The Anniston Star would have gotten that right as well. I object to his improper que s tion. Go ahead. I disagree with Mr. Bryant in that story. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031622 10 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q A. Q A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Have you talked t o him? No , sir. You don ' t want t o talk to him before you write the letter to find out if perhaps Jerry might not have been there when something happened or maybe Jerry is just sort of pulling your leg? No, sir. I don't believe Jerry was pulling my leg. Do you believe him to be an honest person? I believe him to be an honest person. And accurately portrayed what happened at the plant; including what happened on that south landfill and why it happened? I believe Jerry to bean honest person. So if he said that that south landfill remediation cap -- all that stuff that was done over there was done because of parathion and not PCBs, you would tend to believe ol1 Jerry, wouldn't you? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. You are asking REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031623 10 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. him an improper question and asking one witness to comment on another. Well, you wouldn't disbelieve him if he told you it was parathion over there that y'all were trying to take care of? MR. PECK: Ob j ect to the form of the que s tion. It's speculation. That's not speculation, Mr. Cain. I took his deposition. Frankly, it was the floor above us. That's what he said. Then, sir, you know more than I know. So they didn't tell you that was because of parathion and not because of PCBs? I did not get into that discussion. Now, I looked up in this deposition - Ms. Russo happened to bring a copy of this today. And I'm getting older, Mr. Cain. But at least two days after the deposition I can remember it. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031624 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 10 6 Now, next week it may be hard. And I notice Adam just objected to the form, so he probably -- I think Adam was at Jerry Brown's deposition, so he probably remembers that. And I just asked him -- If he didn't, he can comment. MR. PECK: I objected because it's improper to have one witness comment on the testimony of another. That's why I obj ected. I think you are slightly simplifying the entire conversation as well. MR . STEWART : With Mr. Brown? MR . PECK: That wa sn't - - MR . STEWART : I talked t o Mr. Branchfield. I know what the parting line is. MR. PECK: Well, where are you reading from? MR. STEWART: Page two REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031625 10 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 A. 2 0 Q. 21 22 23 fifty-eight. Off the record. (Discussion held off record.) MR. PECK: Are you talking about the Washington meeting? MR. STEWART: Yeah. (By Mr. Stewart) Mr. Branchfield said there was a trip made to Washington. He said, "There was a meeting that was held, Mr. Stewart. And I'm trying to recall who attended that meeting." He said, "I believe Mr. Rustin and our plant manager, David Cain." So I wasn't asking something that would be -- that was information from - "There was one other person who attended" -- And he didn't recall who that was. Uh-huh (indicating yes) . Is it fair to say that -- I want to make sure that I got my meetings and that that meeting was between you and the people in Atlanta and that the REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031626 10 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. destination -- you think that's what Mr . - - That's wha t - - -- Branchfield isreferring to? That's what I believe. And he said that meeting took place in the fall of last year. Uh-huh(indicating yes) . Was that after Bush went in? I mean, he was declared the winner. Do you mean my meeting in Atlanta? Yeah. My meeting in Atlanta did not occur in the fall . Well, that'swhat he said. But he also said I went to Washington, D.C., and I did not go. He said it on page two fifty-nine. "It would have been last fall." MR. PECK: I object to the form of the question. It's improper to ask a witness to comment on the testimony of another REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031627 10 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 1 0 Q. 1 1 A. 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 1 7 A. 18 19 20 21 2 2 Q. 23 witness. Obviously he was wrong. The guy knows if he has been to Washington or not. MR. STEWART: That's not an objection, Adam. Come on. I don't remember. The meeting I went to in Atlanta was sometime after I arrived here. In August of 2000? I believe it was before the fall. It could have been late summer. But I believe it wasn't in November. So Mr. Branchfield could have been right about the trip but David perhaps didn't go? He could have been right about the trip going to meet in Atlanta. But the time he could have been mistaken about and the fact -- and the place. It wasn't in Washington. There is also a possibility that Mr. Rustin and some representative group REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031628 110 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q A. from Solutia could have met with people in Washington in the fall about the Anniston plant site? I don't know. I believe Craig was talking about our trip to Atlanta. He would have been well aware of my trip to Atlanta. He could have gotten the place wrong. I believe that's the trip he is talking about. MR. PECK: Some people think fall starts when football season starts. Football season starts in August. So that could account for everything. That's when I count fall starting. What else were you told -- Strike that. Are there records here, Mr. Cain, that have to do with the plant production and documents that were generated back in the '50s and '60s here at the Anniston plant? Are there production records? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031629 111 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yeah. Could you be more specific than production records, because that's still ve ry vague. Well, let me just say are there records located at the Anniston plant that related to correspondence, production, that type stuff that took place at the Anniston plant in the '50s and '60s and '70s? Did y'all have a record room there where you keep old records? That far back, I don't know. I have not seen records from the '50s. Do you have records that are located there in some kind of record room about the plant site itself? From what time period, sir? If you are asking me about -- Any time period. If you are asking me about current production, I can tell you I keep records on current production ope rations . REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031630 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Do you have sort of a dead file room where you have got old files that are located that have to do with past operations at the Anniston plant? I don't know. I haven't seen any such files in the past. Do you know if there are any PCB related records that are located there at the Anniston plant? MR. PECK: You are not talking about remediation. I'm not talking about remediation. I'm talking about historical records. No. I haven't seen any such files and any such documents. Do you know if y'all maintain files there on remediation where you have got correspondence back and forth between EPA, ADEM, your folks there, like Craig and people like that? Are they maintained there at the Anniston plant site? I would assume that Craig Branchfield REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031631 113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. maintains those communications. Those records? Yes. And they are maintained there at the Anniston plant site? I don't know if they are there or in St. Louis. I don't know. Does he have an office there; keep files there, Craig Branchfield? Yes, he did does. And he would be the one, if there are records there, that would maintain them? He would know, yes, sir. Tell me, Mr. Cain, if you can, what is the nature of the consent order in principle that you all are working on about remediation now with the EPA? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. The document speaks for itself . Well, Craig Branchfield would be the ideal source for the contents -- REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031632 114 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Do you have an understanding of it, though? My understanding is that it involves, as I mentioned, the characterization of the 11th Street ditch. It involves sampling some properties. Do you mean properties off site? Off site, yes, sir. What properties; residential, commercial, what? Residential properties. And do you know in what area those are being sampled? It would be in some of the immediate areas around the plant, west Anniston. Anything outside the drainagebasin? I wouldn't know specifically.I can't r erne mb e r, sir. What else? I can't remember any other -- anything else. Was there anything mentioned about Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031633 115 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q- A. Q. MR. PECK: Same objection I can'1t remembe r the details. Would one of the details about Choccolocco Creek be approval by the agencies of this conservation corridor? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. Again, I can't remember. Craig said y'all spent two hundred thousand dollars on that so far; in his meeting or in his deposition. I will pull it out for you. Have y'all spent that with the understanding if EPA approves that and ADEM approves that? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. It's improper to ask one witness to comment on the testimony of another. MR. STEWART: I'm notasking him to comment on the testimony. I ' m asking him to tell me if REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031634 116 1 2 3 Q 4 5 A. 6 Q 7 8 A. 9 Q 10 11 12 13 A . 14 15 16 17 Q 18 19 20 21 22 23 ADEM approved that conservation corridor. (By Mr. Stewart) Do you understand that ? I wouldn't know. Has anyone met with representatives of the Governor's office to work that out? I wouldn't know. This little fellow, Pete Conroy, who runs around posing as an environmentalist, has anybody talked to him? I don't know who Pete Conroy is. I wou1dn ' t know him if I saw him.. I wou1dn ' t know if he ' s a little fellow a big fellow. I wou1dn ' t know . He is a little fellow. MR . PECK : In stature or phy s i qi MR . STEWART : Either way . THE WITNESS : I have neve r me t him . MR . STEWART : And h e 's about to get a lot smaller. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031635 117 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 Q 9 10 11 A. 12 Q 13 A. 14 1 5 Q. 16 1 7 A. 1 8 Q. 19 20 2 1 A. 22 23 (By Mr. Stewart) So you don't know if anybody from Monsanto has met -- Do you know David Roberson? He is Mr. Rustin's counterpart, as I understand it, in Montgomery. He lobbies for y'all down there. Do you know David? I've met David. Did you ever meet with the Governor, Mr. Cain, since you have been here in A1abama ? With the Governor? Governor Siegleman? No, sir. I don't have that kind of pull. Or Siegleman, as he now calls himself? Have you met with him? No, sir. Do you know of any representatives from Monsanto that have met with the Governor? I don't know, sir. I've never heard it. MR. STEWART: Adam, it's about twelve twenty-five. Do you REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031636 118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. want to take a break for lunch? I can look at some notes. I may not even come back and talk to David. I want to know what y'all want to do . MR. PECK: I mean, if it's like - if you are talking potentially twenty more minutes, I guess we would probably be able to push on through. If you need some time - - MR. STEWART: I just want to be fair to him. He's been sitting here answering questions and cooperative and everything. MR. PECK: We can go off the record. (Discussion held off record.) (By Mr. Stewart) You were the telling REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031637 119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. us -- before I got off on this conservation thing, you were telling us what else you understood was going to be involved in the remediation thing under the consent order. And you told us testing in residential properties. And you also told us, I believe, characterization of that 11th Street ditch. Yeah. And anything else that you understood - I believe we covered Snow Creek, and you said you didn't know what was going to happen on Snow Creek. Or do you know? That's correct. You don't know whether anything would be required of you by the regulatory agencies? By you, I mean Solutia. That's correct. I don'tknow. And you don't know whether or not they have approved or disapproved this Choccolocco Creek thing? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031638 12 0 1 A. 2 Q 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 1 0 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 A. 22 23 I don ' t know, Why is it - - We asked Mr. Branchfie1d this . W h y i t3 it there has3 not been any money budgeted for the cleanup of residential property? In the budget that he presented there was no money for cleanup . I can't speak on behalf of Branchfie1d's budget. Those are two separatebudgets. That is his projections. But I assume you have talked to him about what is happening, as the local plant manager here. And has he told you - Mr. Branchfield -- in the conversations you have had with him or with his boss why y'all have not budgeted anything for residential cleanup? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. I don't recall having that conversation about what's in his budget and what is not. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031639 12 1 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 6 A. 17 1 8 Q. 19 20 21 22 2 3 A. Have you heard anybody say that y'all are going to budget any money for residential cleanup? I don't recall that specific conversation. And the only thing that I saw budgeted in his budget was monies for the conservation corridor on Choccolocco Creek and perhaps the sand that was there . Do you know if there was any money that has been budgeted for cleanup on Choccolocco Creek? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. I don't recall seeing anything. If you have seen Craig's budget, then -- What about the -- There was some money for a liner of Snow Creek; which he explained to us was about a two point eight million dollar concrete culvert to be built there on Snow Creek. I don't recall that. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031640 12 2 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 A. 1 4 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 2 A. 2 3 Q. Do you recall anything else being budgeted for Snow Creek? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. Let me show you Exhibit One, which Ms. Russo happened to have. And as corrective measures for Choccolocco Creek there is a half million dollars there. And corrective measures for WWTP. There is a million and a half dollars there. Do you know what that is? No, sir. Let me look at this. I think that's the waste water treatment plant If you ask me what that11 s an ac ronym for, that' s waste water. That ' s the stuff that's Pi led up - - that the c 0 rPt P ctor piled up o n the side o f the waste water treatment plant? Is that what it is? I don't know. And then on the first page here he's got REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031641 12 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 1 2 A. 1 3 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 A. 21 22 2 3 Q. Snow Creek liner system. That's the liner system I was talking about, two point eight million; and the conservation corridor, one point two million. Uh-huh (indicating yes) . And then lake and Choccolocco Creek monitoring he has got a hundred thousand dollars. And then he's got Choccolocco Creek CMS. What do you understand that to be? I have no idea. Do you see anything on that budget - Now that you have got the budget, do you see anything on that budget for the residential property or the cleanup of the creek? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question; no foundation. If you are asking me if I see anything that says, "Residential sampling," the answer is no. Or residential cleanup? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031642 12 4 1 A. 2 Q. j 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 A. 12 Q. 13 1 4 A. 1 5 Q. 16 17 1 8 A. 19 20 2 1 Q. 22 23 It's not -- How far out do y'all budget? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. He or Craig? Normally do you have to putprojections on the Anniston plant for a five-year budget; budget out five years; budget out two years? MR. PECK: Are you talking about him budgeting? Are you talking about mespecifically? I'm talking toMr. David Cain. I'm asking him what he budgets. I can't explain -- At the plant is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about your personal budge t . Exactly. I don't know how remediation -- There is our budget for the plant. I do my budget a year in advance. If Craig planned to clean anything up, you would assume that he would at least do it a year in advance? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031643 12 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. Q. A. No, sir. You are asking me to speculate that Craig does the same budgeting the same way that I do. And that's not necessarily true. I think he said he did it five years out . MR. PECK: Object to the form of the que s tion. But I don't know. He did it some number of years ago. All I'm asking, Mr. Cain, is do you understand that y'all have no intention of cleaning up Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek, or cleaning up these residential properties; you're just going to do a little sampling. Is that what you understand the ADEM folks - like Steven Cobb, Jerry Hardegree -- have told y'all you could get away with at the Anniston site? No, sir. I disagree with you. My understanding is that we will work cooperatively with the agencies. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031644 12 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Oh, I'm talking about working cooperatively with the agencies. Do you understand their history here, ADEM' s ? Could you be more specific; their history? They sort of dropped the ball a couple of times. Steven said the other day they sort of dropped the ball on the mercury. Isn't that what Mr. Cobb said in that mercury article in The Anniston Star; they sort of dropped the ball on that? MR. PECK: Object to the form. I'm asking you if they are going to let y'all at Solutia slide by by just doing a lick and a promise on this major problem you have here with the PCBs. Is that what they told y'all you are going to be allowed to do? MR. PECK: Objection. No, sir. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031645 12 7 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 1 0 A. 11 1 2 Q. 13 14 15 16 A. 17 Q 18 19 20 A. 21 Q 22 A. 23 Q The Governor's folks, Pete, came over there and said, "Well, lord, this sounds like a wonderful thing, and I think it's a great solution. And I will go talk to the Governor about it,-" Pete Conroy? No, sir. And that other sterling representative, Mr. Ghee? Have you ever met with Mr. Ghee, Doug Ghee? Doug Ghee is a member of the Rotary with me. I have met him in Rotary. Have you talked to him about this deal that y'all are trying to work out to get out of here as cheaply as you possibly can, Mr. Cain? No , sir.- Tell me, if you would, who owns the property where the Mars Hill church meets . Solutia owns the property. How much rent do they pay y' all? It's a dollar a day. A dollar a day ? REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC . HARTOLDMON0031646 12 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes) . Three hundred and sixty-five dollars a year? Yes, sir. For the rental of the church? Yes, sir. Who paid for the security system y'all put in out there? Which security system? I thought you said you put - The security system amounted to a big fence. Who paid for that? I paid for that. Solutia? Yes. Have y'all provided them anything else? No. I haven 1 t . From your budget you have not provided them any monies at all? No . Would it be fair to say that the church -- Have you got any ideas of the square REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031647 12 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. footage on that church? I'm not any good at guessing square footage. Why is it that that deal was made at three hundred and sixty-five dollars a year? Did somebody tell you why they made that deal? I believe that it was something that - When I got here, I was instrumental in getting the lease signed and wanted it to be something that was just a token amount. These people were planning on moving. And a dollar a day seemed very reasonable. The building was sitting idle. Did anybody tell you, Mr. Cain, what the history of that relationship was between that church group and Monsanto or Solutia? Yes, sir. Who told you that? Several people. I mean, I met with REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031648 13 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q A. Q A. Q- A. Q A. Q A. Q- A. Q A. members from Mars Hill. Sandra Roberts? I know her. She didn't tell me, though. I met with - Melanie Tignor? That doesn't ring a bell. Ms. Meeling? I met withseveral people from that church that had told me of the history of the relationship. Between - Monsanto and Mars Hill. That it was a good relationship? Well,it wasn't exactly always good. I mean, there were some bumps in the road there . But it's improved since y'all have let them have the church for nothing almost? I think it'simproved because of -- I have reached out and tried to have a relationship with that church. You have ? Yes, sir. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031649 13 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Well, weren't they meeting in the church before you got here? Yes, sir, they were. And they weren't paying any rent at that time? No, sir. Who else told you, besides the members of the church, about the relationship? I spoke with Alan Faust about the church. What did Alan tell you? Alan just told me, you know, the history of the church; the land was remediated and how the church split and told me about Bethel as well. It was more or less just, "This is how the church came to be, and this is how the folks got to be there." I can't even remember allthe details of the story. Did he tell y' a11 that y' a 11 built a church somewhere else for Bethel? Yes. REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031650 13 2 1 Q 2 A. 3 Q- 4 5 A. 6 Q. 8 9 1 0 A. 11 12 13 Q - 14 A . 15 Q 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q- 21 A. 22 Q- 23 And tore the Bethel church down? Yes.. To a certain extent. Did he tell you why you didn't tear the Mars Hill church down? No. I can't remember. Did he tell you why the agreement was made with Ms. Roberts and Ms. Meeling and the members of that church for them to stay there? I recall that it was they had no place to worship and that building was available. And they had help from Monsanto? No , sir. That was not the reason. Did they tell you that? No , sir. I don ' t -- That congregation is not -- when I first came here, it wasn't exactly -- everybody in there wasn't Monsanto friendly. So it -- Some of them were; some o f them we r e n1 t ? Some of them were; some o f them we r e n1 t . What other buildings do you all have that you are leasing now a t three REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031651 13 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. hundred and sixty-five dollars a year here in Anniston? I don't know. That's probably the only building I know of, that I signed my name on the lease of. Do you have other buildings that you purchased around the plant site? Yes. There are other buildings that we own around the plant site. What are those? Well, the Laundromat on the corner, the community ice house. What did y1 all pay for the community ice house? I don't know. Where else? Well, the pawn shop building there on the corner. The cabinet place next door to there. I think we own that. And then the old Anniston Metal Works building. Anything else you own in that vicinity, that y'all have purchased recently in REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031652 13 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. that vicinity? That's about all I can remember. Maybe. I don't think there is. MR. STEWART: Thank you, Mr Cain. MR. PECK: That's it. (AND FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT.) REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031653 13 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 I do hereby certify that the witness whose attached deposition was taken before me was by me first duly cautioned and sworn to tell the truth in the cause aforesaid; that the testimony contained herein was by me reduced to writing in the presence of said witnesses by means of stenography and afterwards transcribed by means of computer-aided transcription. The foregoing is a true and accurate transcript of the whole of the testimony given by said witness, as aforesaid. I do further certify that I am not connected by blood or marriage with any of the parties or their attorneys or agents and that I am not an employee of any of them, nor interested in the matter of controversy. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my notarial seal at Gadsden, Alabama, County of Etowah, this 9th day of AUGUST 2001. Janet F. Russo Notary Public, Alabama-at - Large My Commission expires: 5-22-2004 REGIONAL REPORTING SERVICE, INC. HARTOLDMON0031654