Document zb02zbxnMgamYQzjoGgY1DMb6

July 27, 1976 TO: R. E. Norwood FROM: H. D. Stanley SUBJECT: Minutes of the CTFA Talc Subcommittee Meeting Enclosed please find the minutes of the CTFA Talc Subcommittee meeting held on July 8 , 1976, at the Chemist's Club in New York City. You will notice that my name appears in the group of those absent. The reason for this is that the CTFA has continually sent all correspondence addressed to me to 100 Jefferson Road, Parsippany, New Jersey. I have tried to clear up this misunderstanding before, but until today I was unable to do so. I have contacted Dr. Norm Estrin of CTFA and have been assured by him that henceforth all correspondence addressed to me will be sent here to Easton. You will notice that a talc standard definition for cosmetic talc was adopted "unanimously" at this meeting. Had I been there I would have objected to their definition. I particularly object to the section at the end that reads - containing no detectable asbestos minerals. The reasons for my objection are obvious. They do not specify the detection level nor the detection method. I feel this can lead to some very serious breaks in communication between the buyer and the seller. I have trouble believing that Slim Thompson from R. T. Vanderbilt, who was present at this meeting, actually agreed to this definition. As we all know, R. T. Vanderbilt's materials seldom contain more than 35% talc. The definition unanimously adopted for inclusion in the CTFA standard says that cosmetic talc consists typically of 90% hydrated magnesium aluminum silicate. In the first place, talc is not a hydrated magnesium aluminum silicate but a hydrated magnesium silicate. Dr. Thompson would have known this. Additionally, Dr. Thompson would not have agreed to a definition that would on the face of it exclude R. T. Vander bilt's talcs because of their low purity. As regards the proposed visit to the Mount Sinai group, it is interesting to me that our name did not come up as a tentative participant in such a visit. I think either you, Bob or myself ought to be present if such a trip actually comes about. R. E. Norwood July 27, 1976 Page Two The next meeting of the CTFA Talc Subcommittee is noted as scheduled for September 9, 1976, at the Chemist's Club in New York City. I certainly intend to be there. Harold u. Stanley HDS/kmm Enclosure cc: J. K. Barr W. Nazarewicz C. L. Perry W. M. Stephenson G. A. Wells i J I \ 4A $ i 1 CONFIDENTIAL PFI KA 00000785 CONFIDENTIAL 11713745 PFI KA 00000786 # 3^5T-J0o ^ --------------------------------------------- :-------- The Cosmetic, Toiletry and Fragrance Association, Inc. 1133 1Sili STRCET, N.W.. V/ASHINGTOfl. D.C. 20005 202/331-1770 TELEX 80-2673 James II. M o rin Norman F. Estrin. P M ). Vt** h r fit-- Sete** M I N.U T E S CTFA TALC SUBCOMMITTEE i\ I A meeting of the CTFA Talc Subcommittee was held on July 8 th, 1976 at the Chemists' Club in New York City. Those in attendance were: George Sandland, Bristol-Myers Company (Chairman) ' Tryggve Baak _ John Hilovsky, Mennen Company (for Robert Suffis) Ray Krammes, Whittaker, Clark & Daniels George Lee, Johnson & Johnson Baby Products Company Louis Murino, Cyprus Industrial '. Fred Roesch, Whittaker, Clark 6 Daniels 1i Robert Rolle, Johnson & Johnson Baby Products Company Joseph Simko, Colgate-Palmolive Company Terry Smith, Fabcrge, Inc. Ian Stewart, Walter C. McCrone ' A J4 C.S. Thompson, R.T. Vandernilt John Travers, Avon Products, Inc.l 1 Norman F. Estrin, CTFA Those absent from this meeting were: . i Murray Berdick, Chesebrough-Pond's Inc.. sj George Cohen, Bristol-Myers Company . Christopher Costello, Colgate-Palmolive Compari Allan Harvey, R.T. Vanderbilt Roderick Mundy, Sterling Drug Company DeWitt Pettcrson, Johnson & Johnson Baby Products Company John Schclz, Johnson & Johnson Baby Products Company Harold Stanley, Charles Pfizer Robert Suffis, Mcnncn Company Ronald Yakupcin, Kolmar Laboratories, Inc. Mr. Sandland opened the meeting by distributing a draft of a talc standard prepared by the Toiletry Preparation Federation and briefed the Subcommittee on the March 31st, 1976 minutes. -:ii 1. Talc Standard The problem in developing a definition of cosmetic talc con sistent with available safety data woo the major subject of discussion. The following definition was proposed and adopted I i $ s** * \ CONFIDENTIAL I PFI KA 00000787 11713746 CONFIDENTIAL PFI KA 00000788 # -s- Pancl has not been completed and the Panel is presently av/aiting a summary. 6. Nomenclature *% * The Talc Subcommittee is not, at the present time, consider ing a request to the CTFA Cosmetic Ingredient Nomenclature Committee for a change in nomenclature from "Talc" to "Cos metic Talc". .. The next meeting of the CTFA Talc Subcommittee is scheduled for September 9th,- 1976 at the Chemists' Club in New York City at 10:30 a.m. There being no further business, the meeting adjourned. 5 Vice President - Science July 12th, 1976 NFE:jj I * CONFIDENTIAL ! i1 PFI KA 00000789 CONFIDENTIAL 11713747 PFI KA 00000790 unanimously for inclusion in the CTFA Standard. "Cosmetic talc is an essentially white odorless, fine powder ground from naturally oc curring rock ore. It consists typically of 90'i hydrated magnesium aluminum silicate, having the ideal formula Mgg (SigC>2 ol '(0,,i4 witli the remainder being naturally associated minerals such as calcitc, chlorite, dolomite, kaolin and magnesite and containing no detectable asbestos minerals." . ; 2. Animal Studies The ultimate importance of the Industry engaging in additional animal studios on representative cosmetic talcs was discussed in detail with the Talc Subcommittee. It" was noted that, at the March 31st, 1976 meeting, t was agreed that Dr. Gressol and Dr. Finkelstein would coordinate activities in this re gard. (NOTE: The Antiperspirant Task Force is coordinating with a subcommittee of the CTFA Pharmacology & Toxicology Committee to prepare a protocol for a 30-day study which would be the first step towards possible long-term studies. One of the materials that would be tested is an aerosolized talc. The protocol will be sent out for bid within the next few weeks.) Dr. Estrin was asked to investigate how long-term testing of talcs could be financed. Fred Roesch and George Sandland were asked to prepare a proposal for what composites would be representative of cosmetic talcs used. That infor mation should be sent to Dr. Estrin for distribution to the Subcommittee by August 1st. 3. Mt. Sinai Paper '' Dr. Estrin noted plans by the Mt. Sinai group to publish an extensive paper on cosmetic talc analysis and CTFA's response previously distributed to the Talc Subcommittee. 4. Mt. Sinai Visit - It was agreed that CTFA should establish dialogue with the Mt. Sinai group. A meeting prior to the meeting with the Mt. Sinai group was agreed upon as necessary in order to discuss the agenda. Tentative participants in such a visit include Tryggve Baak, Bob Rollc, Terry Smith, Ian Stewart, Dr. Estrin, and possibly someone from FDA. .. 5. Miscellaneous Panel Presentation ' Dr. Lee reported on the considerations of the Miscellaneous External Drug Panel. He stated that Johnson & Johnson has provided a transcript of its presentation to the Antiperspirant Panel. The review by theMiscellaneous External Drug . I j j ; ! ; j j j .J j 1 | i ) j j j '! CONFIDENTIAL PFI KA 00000791