Document zQxE2GjZKVyvaGxbzV2Lg1143

FILE NAME: Eagle-Picher (EP) DATE: 1982 DOC#: EP029 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Direct Examination of Robert Borkstahler STATE OF WISCONSIN : * CIRCUIT COURT : MILWAUKEE COUNTY : BRANCH 32 ANNA MAE WESTER, & an individual * .. and as Personal Representative of : . 'r ' the Estate of Walter J. Wester, . u,, - . Plaintiff, Ay;- . SOUTHERN TEXTILE C0R P . , e T -t-V A ; `o foreign corporation, end >tV^ EAGLE- PICHER INDUSTRIES, TSC ,, ^ <. . Casa Mo. SOS-108 e foreign corporation, ~ defendant. -i-i ^ ' >4 BUILDING SERVICE INDUSTRIAL SALES CO., e domestic corporati!, ; ... v ' A' Defendant end Third- Party Plaintiff, ..... -***-.> - OWENS-TLLINOI5$ INC., C foreign ` corporation, - . ; '' : . Third-Party Defendant. -Date: November IS, 3382 mtneea:. ROBERT BOCXSTAHLER -t....r.****-` 10:30 -- 12:00 NOON i . A i... - AV-' -- ..... ; - - - r" " -* . * * ' * - - * * -*-- ; \ ^ A'A "A. ;_ . ' " :::V ; * * * * V `- - ~ ~ T ' "wA~^t'* '* '' "* in*.-*Vr-TC*--^'^ */--* `'rA^r'r ' ? / ^v ` 'v*r'C-Ayv--fl "*- * - * `*--'--- - .- .- c -V -: V ---------------- - V <' e C > STATE OF WISCONSIN: ; /v' CIRCUIT COURT: BRANCH 32 MILVAXKS COUNTY* * ^-v` * .AESA MAE WESTER, as an Individual, aad as Paraonal Representative of* tha Batata of Valter J. Vaster, Plaintiff, 8CUTHERN TEXTILE CORP., a foreign oorporation, and EAGLE-PICHER INDUSTRIES, INC., a foreign oorporation. Case No. 503-108 Defendants, BCILDING SERVICE INDUSTRIAL SALES CO., a domestic corporation, Defendant and ThirdParty Plaintiff, OWENS-ILLINOIS, INC., a foreign corporation, Third-Party Defendant. Sobert Bocfcstahler - Vltnass 30 -- 13:00 noon - Time Koveaber 18, 1982 IXL,- Before the HONORABLE MIC2AEL OODLES aad a Jury C QUARLES L BRADY, by Attoraey Frank J. Daily, appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff. fc- - *. ATTOEXEY RONALD MOTLEY, Assistant Counsel, appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff. ATTORNEY THOMAS EAST,' Assistant Counsel, appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff. GODFREY, TRUMP k HAYES, by Attorney James Saauelson, appearing on behalf of Defendant, Southern Textile Corp. KASDORF, DALL, LEWIS k SflETLIE, by Attorney Jeffrey Schmeckpeper, appearing on behalf of Defendant Ragle-Picher. ALBERT, JUDE k VAN REHMEN, by Attorney John S. Jude, appearing on behalf of Defendant and ThirdParty Plaintiff, Building Service Industrial Sales Co. GIBBS, ROPER, LOOTS A WILLIAMS, by Attorney John Boaglund, appearing on behalf of Third- Party Defendant, Owens-Illinois, Inc. ATTORNEY RICE FORMAN, Assistant Counsel, appearing on behalf of the Third-Party Defendant, Owens Illinois, Inc. GIBBS, ROPER, LOOTS k WILLIAMS, by Attorney Robert Wrenn, appearing on behalf of the Third-Party Defendant, Owens-Illinois, Inc. ATTORNEY LOUIS WOOL5T, ieLstant Counsel, appearing *^>ibalf of the Third Party Dfendait*\Cu-Illinois, lac. Ste'-- S. c PROCEEDINGS C b i TtsRjE CUPI: Would jou stata pour iaaa sad spell pour la.at name? THE WITNESS: tV t t?-< 1 --- Robert Bochstahler. B-o--k-s-t-a-b-l-s-r. / DIRECT CULMINATI OS BY NE, SCHNEOCPEPES : <4 tir. Bockstalher, Z vili give you th san* adaonition that ve give arary vltness. Wa ara uot uslag microphones so keep your voice cp so ve all osa bear you. Would you pletse state your sane agaln for th record? A Robert Bockstalber. Q Where do you presently lies? A Ciaclunati, Ohio. c Q Would you please gire us an outline of your fornai educa tion? A Z bave a Bachelor's Degree in Business iron the University of Cincinnati in 1WS4. Where are you presently eployed? Is Cincinnati, Ohio. With vbon? \|r m i e-Plcher Industries. Sov long bave you been eoployed thare? Tvesty-seven years. Would you brlafly outlise for th Court a Vary your work bistory witfa Stgle-Plcber, vbat your jobs vhat your rospeoslbllltles vere? C 1 A * . > Q A c Q % r % C u Certainly. X Joined the- coopiny In October 1, 1955 end pent the first eleven years with the fira^ working for the Mineral* Division, which is a division which wines and markets diatoanceous earth products* Vhat is diatomaeeous earth? That is a mineral need primarily as a filler is certain products that primarily Infiltrates. The last five years ef that eleven year period X served as General Manager of Mxport Bales for this product lino. December 1 of 1966 X assumed the duty of Yice-President of Males for the Fibers Department, which is the operation of the company that manufactures industrial insulating materials. August 3 of 1971 I was appointed President and General Manager of a division known as the Chemical and Fibers Division, that consisted of isad chemical operations In Joplin, Missouri, sine aids manufacturing facility in Hillsborough, Illinois, fibers and iasulating plant also in Joplin, a diatomaeeous cooling plant in It. Louis. Xn Bovember of 1981 X was traasfsrred to Cincinnati and assumed my current position which is Litigation Assistant for the corporation. You said tbs Fibers Department which you went to in December, 1966, was that a portion of ths company which manufactured and mold insulation products? Tes. Vhea you were President and General Chemical 4. and fibers Division In 1871, did 70a still have supervision ovsr that portion of the company which manufactured and old insulation products? >j r - v " -_ A Tss. ' 4 I take it thsn that when we refer to insulating products we are referring, at least in part, to insulating products that at oae time contained aabestoa fibers? A In part that Is correct. Q Did the company manufacture insulation products that did not contain asbestos fibers? A Yss. tja f' L Q Could you briefly outline for the Court and Jury how it is that*you have become familiar with Mngle-Plcher'a experience with asbestos eontalning Insulation products? A That essentially ooncerns the time frame of December 1966 up to and including ay current capacity Q kave you become familiar with eoeg>nnles with asbestos eontalning insulation prior to 1966? A Tss. -- Q And how did this come about? A Through review of historical documentation, production records that bad been made available to ae during mj capacity as General Manager of the division and ay capacity 'r . during the last year being concerned w i t h ' ^ d p o r a t i o n 's litigation activities. ft. C*nt that contained asbestos fibers? r .?> . The time frame Is either late 1931 or earl/ 1632, Could you describe for the Court and Jury Why Sagle-Picher put asbestos fibers Into this cement when they first manufactured it? At that etate the company ~ the company's operation 2 hould say began la 1929 and they mere essentially as they are today inreived with production of mineral fiber product Let'* etop there. fiber? Is mineral fiber different than asbesto Tee, mineral fiber is a material which is manufactured in our case from lead, nine and Iron slag materials. 1929? BY TEL OOCBT: Tou said the company started in Tee. HR. BOiEhCsPEPER: Tour Bonor, the ooapany meaning the fiber Department. '"t" Sagle-Picber Itself foes bach to tbe 19th Century, correct? That is correct. feuId you eoatinue, please? from 1929 to 1932 the company's activities, again referrin to the fact in the frame of reference to the fibers Depart eat was oolely in the residential lasulatfoa'f&tivlty involving mineral fiber products. St was __ .J t Q s,* r%r."*:-- i * :-r ? * A A Q . ;* : r;:,'** : --- 3 Let se atop you. Did the residential insulation in that \ period of mineral fiber and mineral wool have asbestos 1 fiber in it? ..r. 1 Vo, sir, this was purely granulated mineral fiber. I All right, continue. It was discovered by a new employee of the oocpany that there was additional sales possibilities to the military and benoeforth to private industry if we manufactured and could manufacture Insulation, high temperature insulation product known in those days as insulating cement. At that time there were two companies, Weber 48 and Johns- Ul Kanville that had been in production of approved products " by the Xavy and the coop any literally evaluated those products and duplicated those formulations and henceforth in approximately 1931 the product was submitted for naval approval and I believe in early 1934 that approval was ^__ \ granted. BT THE COURT; Z didn't get when you started " ^ working at Xagle-Pieher? 1955. *Ng ICS. ttOTLEY: -s X titTur-- your test isony is based os review of documents? 10 That is oorrect, eir. j HR. 8CHHECXPXPXB: The Weber earnest and Johna-Raaville ceaent that you referred,^ 7. A Q A Q A '4 \ -h * to as being la existence prior to 1931, did those contain asbestos? . <J.^s/ ' - Tea. V n-..'v;. +r_ - Why did the company seek approval from the Department of the Havy of its csasnt with asbestos liber ia it? At that time frame that type of product lor eotaaple in- aulatioa cement product for high temperatures was aot conventioaally used by private industry. Private industry was cither oil refinery power plants, chemical plaats utilized technology available through the government at that tiae oo therefore In the early 1930'a, in the middle of the depression, death el the depression, it was accessary to sell products to private industry by having government approval lor the aaae lor esiployiag the aee technique and nee technology. ,,-- the Xagle-Piober cement approved by the government -- by the Xavy bach in the early 1930'e? The formal approval as a qualified product, I believe, certified in 1933. j *, l~Q ll Could you t e i T u T b o e that certification came about? Any product that as certified lor uss by the Xavy in that tiae frame was approved by their experimeatal station which was headquartered at Annapolia, SarylamA. Did you have to scad your product out tJ to fee tested by them? t. (j,d g xt t u taken there toy an employee. q And after the Savy tested it they gave you certification? V ) A That la correct. . And you referred to Johns-Hanville earlier, did they ever ~~ . vr * * . manufacture an asbestos containing product for a con aidsrable period of time? A Tee. HR. MOTLXT: Z would like to know what document mow that you base that on? Z don't think he eaid he was employed by Johns-Hanville. BT THE CCUET; Tell, overruled. Z think his earlier qualification was that he said he became familiar with this through the various work la the company. HE. BGKHECX7Z7E&: q Oa all the information we relay here there were specifics tioas published by the government or the Eavy as far back as Vorld Tar Z days, 1816, 1918, that specified asbestos products? A Z fr*w only assume that sines Johaa-Haaville was a miner Bf that material they were In the business back as far v*. Q -- .a /..Vr'i:*'. 'a. as that. la your work for the company taking it fro* December of *6 *ft in trying to sell your product, Z assume that one +f the things you had to do was to become familiar with . ' ^ your competitors? ~ ... c t. Tu. l u Johns-XanTllla a competitor 1th Ssglo-Picbar lor the sal ol insulating products? Tm . During tbs tours# of jour wort as Litigation Assistant, bars jou also had occasion to reriaw Johas-hanTille add hosts and slsollar laforaatloa? On occasion, pos. Ars jrou faaillar with a Johns-Kanrilla product known as 0 . *&2 Cw B t ? Tss. Do 700 know bow long iohas-Eanville have sanufaetursd that product? lot oxactly, I would not know that. Zn ths tarttinology of ths Insulating Industry, is 3&2 a trus osBont and if not, why mot? Though it is not a trus osasnt it is actually on# hundred pareeat asbestos fiber. Thy Is that eonsidsrod a ssssat? Zt has ao hydraulic sstting properties. That do you naan by that? Tail, by itself where cssaent Is sized with water once the watar evaporates ths fiber would fall off .-- Ai Just like this railing right bare it would fall o f f . f ^ s r s is nothing la tbs product to hold it 00 thoro^ 10. Trotu jour experience, do you know bow 352 Cement was typically used la insulating pipes, if at ftilf Zt e u used la the fora of or or leas of a patching Material to fill tbe wolds around tha Material being insulated to prevent hot pots. Bov would It b worked with by the insulator? Zt would be worked by band wither la thw dry forts or mixed with ft ftotall amount of water. Bagle-Pieher manufactured a product known a Super 66 Plaatio Insulating Cement, oorrect? That la oorrwct. Could you explain to the Court and Jury bow that product waa awed la insulating? Tha Material Initially called Sagle 66 and later termed Super 66 was a high temperature Insulating sent, when eat to the laaulatlag location was mixed with a prescribe^ amount of watar and applied by band or trowel to various fittings, butt joints between pipe coverings and in worn occasions of tbe pipe oovsring* as an additional insulating Did that Super 66 product bare something la it that after tbe water evaporated it would stay where it was put? You Mentioned la reference to 332, you eald you peuld six it with water and that tbe 332 would fall 8 6 , did It do the ease thin*? 11 A 5-(n/, A Q A A Ho, sir. Xt would atay where it n s placed? V ' ` *v-- ` 1 v That la correct. r .- ?' v Could you tell us iron your experience bow Super 66 was typically used in hipyards in terns of where it was nixed, kcw it was transported by the workers, that kind of thing? Conventionally the product was nixed on dockside, either \ in the wheelbarrow, then the soft nix tare in a Basil pail and transferred to the location, to the area of application^^ Therehas been teetlooay in this easo fron the insulation foroaen of Peterson Builders that their procedure for the insulating erew was to nix Super 66 in a five gallon pall ooewhere off ship asd then carry it on to the ship, nix, \ and then apply it. Vould that, froe your experience, be J h e a p s rentlocal war the material was used in the shipyard^? Tes. Xa the period of time froc 1950 to 1960, did Super 66 hare asbestos fiber in it? Tes, it didT) JLy }>Ii That was the percentage of asbestos fiber? J ^2 Xt warled between 8| to 10 percent by weight. Bid the variations occur during different periods of tlxne and depend on how the product happened to > plant? mi in the Bo, the variation was due to r e c c c a n e n d a t l c ^ i ' w e r e issued IS. through the H'Mirch Jbepertnent to laprovc t W perforaenee ','y- . and quality of tii product? Tfaia would b *asl-Pichr'a E**arch D#p^tB*at? That 1 aorraet. p ^ l n g n ported of tin Iron 1*80 1 1*60, tra* *up.r 6C m to. qualified product 11*1 of tie United State* *ary? T M i it n * . __ Would you axplaia to th Court and Jury what tb qualified products list waa? *11. the qnallfled products H a t oaa and la a certification of a oo-panj'a product that qnalllled It to recelr. bids f-- tbi g o m r u a n t for uoe. Ia tbla cane, on Sary reaaala and b n lnotdilutions. *ltbont that qualified products llt yon oonld oot rooogalae Its ne nnd approTul for the Sary ar th* govnunt. In other oorda, you oonld aot ooll to tha Kary or tha p b r ^ a a t if you " r e aot o. the ,uallflad product. l U t T That ia oorraat. Boo 0 yon *t on the qnallfled prodncte H a t ? Initially, la this eaoe of Super W product, that date, b a d to 1*83. and oblch periodically with ao aet Interval, but osetlaon It ran -- the Uary or the gorarnaant braaoh eould periodically o h * the product to nintaln^ood aae.rt on ,, o o r d . that the material ~ a till th. ^ | ^ l l t y an :*^:t<r" originally qnallfled an oortlflod. m During the tsn year period froa 1950 to 1900 ere there other insulating products on the qualified products list, other than Super 66? . Tea. is far -aw did "taiyof--t-he-othor-oag>euls aot wv patalinEihwtoB?-- Det-pe~rephraaa-lt. Here all of the leeulatiag oeoents on the qualified products list beteee 1950 and 1960, events which contained asbestos fiber? Tea. Then did Bagle-Picher first learn that the asbestos con taining insulation products *ay pose a health hazard to the insulator who worked with it? Xa the spring of 1964. And how did this infornation or knowledge coae to the coopany? Through our anticipation and attendance at an annual acting of the International Iasulation. Manufacturer** Association. Do you know who it was at this seeting that aade that 14. Johna-kanville. Did Kagle-Picher eTer mine aabertoa? - v So, ir. . X aaauae that yon did have to buy aabeetoe to put it into the Biz that turned out to be Super 66? That' right. ~~ Did you actually hare eoployeee who worked on an aaaofflbly line putting aabeatoa fiber and other aateriale into the mix that created Super 66? Tea. Aa of 1964, had Xagle-Plcber ever had a Yorker'a Coopenac tion clala where an employee alleged, even alleged that they had aabeatoa related dlaeaee? Thore were ao workmen*a ooaplainta at that tiae. The teetiaony in thla ease haa ahovn that Sr. Yeater died in June of 1977. Aa of that tiae had Sagle-Picher ever had a Yorker'a Cospenaatioa elala among ita eeq>loye#a where it waa even alleged that the employee had an aabeatoa related dieeaae? So. Yhat did fcagle-Picher do in 1964 when you learned that there night be a health hazard to ineulatora working with your product? . The ecz&aay decided at that tiae that are w?*ld, la fact, uae the euggeeted wording and place that eautltgt Isbel on the *=**;-- c contains? containing the product. Q id you, in fact, do that In 1864? -v ,-' That n i accomplished initially in June ol 1964. , > X show you a osriea of letters warked an Inhibit Ho. 236 ' r.J-': and Exhibit Ho. 340. Those are lettere froa Mr. John Harrington who worked for Eagle-Picher in 1364, la that correct? A That ia oorract. Q id you know Mr. Harrington? A Tan, X did. Q Could you tall tha Court and Jury the nature of tha rala- tloaahlp batwwan Eagle-Picher and the cotapaniea that those C letter were want to? A Tha ralatlonarhip ooneama tha fact that our company re branded eartain cement products for tboaa companies shown ia thin Exhibit under their i i b m . le re-branded Super 66 Q A Q - A . -Jv-crfV;*.? wader their laaes rather than our own t u e . Ton would put their naaa on the Super 66? That in right. Sow, what wan tha purpose in sending out those letters to tbone oapaniee in Juno of 1364? To adTioe than that our fIra was placing that cautionary label on tha package and we were leaving it at their option if they wanted to follow suit. -V - 41 Tow be H e r e Mr. Harrington was the one who g&we yeraissioo C 16. for that? That sue the pany's Indication. 4^ *\T ' Th vas th first spany in the industry Who put a warning on their asbestos containing products? To the beet of sy knowledge, kagle-Picher Industries. Bov, after 1964, did kagle-Pieher develop asbestos free eeeent in their insulation produets? Tee, in due course. Then did you begin the actual retail sale of asbestos free estee&t? The first actual male occurred in late 1970. And when ve say asbestoe free ceraent, ve're talking about the insulating eeoent that does sot have any asbestoe fiber in It, right? That Is r t g h t T J i \ Could you describe to the Court and Jury the process that vent on in developing asbestos free eeaent and deciding to go ahead and put it on the retail startet? That development initially began in early I960. Bovever, the problems encountered at the production level were so Involved and complicated it actually took a ten year period to develop our own grain and fiber of such a nodule. Could you tell us vhat a nodule is? A nodule is taking a fibrous ssaterial,asso^i^ihg. it to a granulating syrtea and roll it into n coaX^^jgTSUr balls 17 as the case any be. Go ahead. le bad to change our furnaces and rav nettrial supplies \ r. to our furnace In order for us to have the proper fibers and when we were able to Kale our modules, when this was accomplished we eubaitted several trial lota of the asbestos free product to the trade and Initially efforts were sot successful, but by August of 1971, we were able, we had been able to develop the product to a certain degree and it was accepted free us by the general industry. Q la your opinion, frea a strictly functional standpoint, did tbs asbestos free eeseat being sold at this time work as wsll as the ceoent which had been used in insulation? Froo a strictly functional standpoint. A . So, sir, they do not. Q At the tiae Eagle-Picher started to sell asbestos or sold asbestos free ceaent, did you end the sale of asbestos con taining ceaent? A Tea, sir. Q At the tixae that occurred, was the Vary still requiring asbestos fiber in its ceoent? Tss. I show you what has been Barked as Exhibit 437, which is J- /. s letter apparently undated but there's * *aeceived' Bay It, 1969. Was this s letter sent to lo-Pieber? it. A iiI i CiT5? ; '**%&*': Q A C Q C Its, it appears to be. lad ob whose letterhead is that letter? rr \ Departocat of Havy. \ BY TEE COURT: . >.< `a. Wha/ is that exhibltnuaber? HE . 8CEXECEPEPEE: 7 ,N That 1s the general thrust of the letter? The general thrust seeas to be their acknowledgement of the serious hasards of using asbestos and they are requesting us In order to ainiaixe those hazards, did we or could we develop asbestos free products. sir? BY THI COCBT: Tfatff {- fbe date of that letter, (| ^ There was no date, Your Honor, froc the Bevy but there is a receiving staap of 28 of Hay, 1S69. ____ . HE. SCHHECCPEPEE: Tinally, Hr. Bockstahler, there was testimony in this ease last week by Dr. Bchepers that In l&dl he co-authored an article vith a doctor by the naae of V.J. Hannon (phonetically) who he said was a aedical consultant to lagle-Picher. At ay request, have you reviewed the records and other material available to see If Dr. Hannon was a aedical consultant? Dr. Hannon, to the best of ay knowledge, is unknown to Zagle-Plober. HE. 0CHHECHPEPEE: Thank you. Z hare W t h i n g further. HT THE COUBT: Anything else? - IS MB. JUDE: 1 have nothLog, Tour Honor. ME. BOAGLUKD: So questloan, Tour Honor* CROSS EXAMINATION BY ME. MOTLETI Tou pronounce jour muse Bockstahler, sir? That is correct. I don't believe I ever net jou, but in and out of the hallway a while ago, and It is nice to set jou, Mr. Bockstabler. Thank jou. Are jou a stockholder of hagle-Picher? In a very modest way, yes. Tou do .own stock in the company? Tes, X do. And did X understand that jour present role for this company is PpwetMl Litigation Administrator? Actually X aa Litigation Assistant to ths General Counsel. So are you practicing law? So, sir. Tell the Jury what your responsibilities are as -lijrairtra-l Litigation Assistant to ths Xngle-Picher lawyers. Due to my background in the fibers department or in the insulating manufacture side of the bualneas, my purpose with the company is to collect data, organise ^formation to -A* -W.W ' assist our Lmgal Department, to answer inttf7?$g&terlee and alec due to my background with the p r o d u c t ^ A e e i e t our SO. St -* , A ' . 1 Q A Q A Q Defense Counsel from an educational standpoint so they become well rersed in the coop cay1s background la our inrolreaent la the insulating business, .. flTi ^ Ton *ean you're got a fulltime Job assisting Six. Bchmockpeper? Hot that gentleman pert iculnrly. More than Mr. Schaeckpeper? Tes, aore than Mr. Bchaeckpeper. People aot lawyers, sot working in Milwaukee? Tee. You help lawyers representing Eagle-Picher in 8outh Carolina? _ Tes. MS. ACHKBCXPZPEB: Tour Honor, I object at this poini. 2 think we're getting afar. ) BT TBS COUET; Sustained. MS. MOTLET: 1, Ao you testify, Mr. Bookstahler, do you testify for Bagle-Plcher, Is that part of your Job as a apAslnl Litigation Assistant? Tss, 1 hare testified In the past. Bow, Aid I understand you to say that the first time that Sagle-Picher found out about asbeetoeis In jtaAlhtion workers was In 1961? 31. ,j : of the product, yea. .* ' And you said you knew a Mr. John P. EarrlAjftoo, la that correct? las. .%**t*rr --*% ME. MOTLEY: May Z (Ira the witness Exhibit No. 187, Tour Sonor, which Z hare blown up? BY TEE COUBT: Tea. MB. MOTLEY: fiara you ewer aaan thia lattar of Mr. Marringtoa on aabaatoala among lnaulation workers, dated Sept abar, 162^ A Z have not aaes thia aorraapoadeaca, air. Q Wall, let's road aloag with the Jury now. You told Mr. Schaeckpeper one of your Jobe waa to reeearch all of the documents, didn't you aay that, re1atla* to asbestos? A To the beat of ay ability that la oorrect. Q Bov cose you didn't find thia 00a? A Z don't knowTl ^ f 01-3_________ __________________ Q Do you know that your aoapany produced thia la a lawsuit la another State, wit of their own records that you clala to be familiar with? /J MB. SCEMSCEPEPXB: thia case also. The records reproduced them In MB. MOTLEY: ^ Did you reriow it before you came up hare A Bo, air, X merer saw it before. 92. / ME. MOTLEY: Your Honor, ay I display th bulletin? BY THE C0U2T: Yea. ME. MOTLEY: t\r Would you agree with me that paragraph 2 talk about asbustosis among laaulatlon workers --- ay filed 13 In California, one in Connecticut, one In /lorida, one in Pennsylvania, os in Hew York -- that it is a fad for making asbcstosis claims for these insulation workers -- tb asbestos workers w r * taking x-ray because thy re gutting sick -- th cost of medical aid and welfare ban doubled. Moat of th eontract associations war interested in obtaining information froc any of tb maaufacturors that include asbestos on thir xpariano with it and that the wtrn contractor's association was putting together a study on this problem. Do you m that, sir? [Jlould you Chang your opinion sow, sir, that th first in formation your company had that insulation workers war gutting sick from asbestos was 1962? On the basis of tba correspondence you hare Just shown me I would say that is accurst7J 5l p fo Bo it should hare ben *62. Well, In your research of records did you c o m across a lawsuit where jyswr company was sued for soiling this saa* eeasnt that a--, 23. -'VfV' C V; j: C who ud the Hagle-Picher Company, attention of Hr. fiichxrc^^ 1/ Perrel (phonetically), Legal Department, had ^tbe baa is for \ 1)4 1 A. ' that ault was that you sold thAt ceeient aid didn't tell ajhody It would make them sick and her husband died from asbestos poisoning and it was filed March 27, 1961 in the State of Louisiana.^ Hare you ever seen that through your search of the records? A Last evening our Defease Counsel reminded ne of this case of which Z Had so prior knowledge. <4 tell, what about Hr. lussell Pickard, your own employee? Tou said you didn't have any claims. Didn't you know he wued your oapany in 1962 and on Page 4 in hie Workmen's Compensation claim be claimed that be had been injured by insulation wool asbestos and granulated insulation? A X a* familiar with the Pickard ease, that is correct. However, Mr. Pickard was not claiming aebeatoe oo.plications. Q Well, be sure claimed it on Page 4, didn't He, sir? A Mr. Pickard was actually claiming respiratory problems from fugitive dust. There were a lumber of duet than asbestos, Q fugitive dust? A fugitive dust. Well, isn't asbestos oae of those fugitive dusts he is claiming about right Here? He saye plastid aaisrial, in sulation material, that's what you were taZS&ag ^&ut Sagle 66 was a plastic insulation mater lei it? ft4. c That's *hat it i m normally known is, yes* Si ''' ^iss^io Material continue throughout the tlse of eeploy- i,'.-'Z'- ;> v, 0 nt And that the M a t u r e of chenical insulation wool, Asbestos sad granulated insulation wised in a cement <* CAtteed dust fro the said chealcals that float in the air. ^5 Do you recall that? There * u a elate, yes. Did you see -- your company was a eeaber of a& association, w it Aot, called Mat local Insulation Manufacturers Association? A Tee* thAt is correct. 0 That is the organisation you elaic first told you about c the hasards of aabestoeia, isn't it7 7^3 That is the organisation that firet advised ue that one of its stttbers was going to place a caution label on it container. And you knew this through G.J. Chrlstner, an employee of Xagle-Picber Company hack is 1960? A I . " 1 ,br Q Asd do you know that he attended a meeting of the National '-OT'xVA Insulation Manufacturers Association January 13, I960, in your research documents, do you see that, sir? ST TKE COCET: That exhibit is tfegtT BE. B0TL3T; Sxhiblt 0. 0, I don't find it. e 36. Do you sac that now, sir? X do recall lag this, air, yM . Tou did aac that? Taa. Z V - / ' . ' ' Thay recoaoanded, this group, of which your cospany belonged, hould for the organisation to look Into health problems for your lnduatry? That la ao indicated, yaa. lad that at the neat meatlag on May e, 19o, they t o ted that down. Did you know that, air? So, air, X did not. Did your company race ire copiea of the sinutes of the eatings? ^a, aertala Members of the coc^aay received copiea of the acLautes. MB. MOTLEY; Bow we are on 91, Tour Sonor. Bara you aware that they voted it down, air? Bo, air, aa I Mentioned, X was not aware of this. Ball, when you wart searching those records and helping the lawyers around the oountry defeadlag iagle-Picher, did you go over to the Bagle-Plcher Medical Library? There is no library that oould be called the Sagle-Picher Medical Library. Thera la a library Maintained By research, industrial research, la Joplin, Missouri, dad its sot Badleal stuff in It, does it? c A Some aay be considered medical, but primarily it is ; : *Q oisntliic. * - tell, what about if I ask you to assume, 317 that a i r . .. . position was taken In this case of hr. Herman Heulster, do you knov who Hr. Heulster is? A T. Q H-e-u-l-s-t-e-r. S4 as employed by Eagle-Picher for a long tine, wasn't h*T A Yss, that is correct. Q And be dealt 1th insulation Materials, did b sot, and be would be the Plant Manager, right? A Be was prior to bis retirement the Plant Manager over C the Tiber Department. Q And be tras listed as a trltneee is this ease, did you kaov that? A X believe be was at one time, yes. Q Then hs took bis deposition In this case, it was stipulated that these documents X have in my band are seroz oopies of the articles that appeared in the Meaearch and Development Library of Xagle-Plcher. Mould you enter that stipulation or would you have reason to dispute Mr. Xeulster's testimony? MR. 8C2K2CEPEPDA: Ve would Stipulate to Hr. Eeulater's depoeition. ST TEE OCCHKT: All right, mix, I ^rt to take that as a fast. e ST JfLr-: Q 1 Q A Q fell, Bay Z clarify? BY THE COUBT: *3 *V r Ho, he will ask the question, a Just tailing you your counsel stipulated that 1 a iict ^ >'> thos docuaents were part of the deposition. MB. MOTLEY: And that you had in the Beeenrch nod Derelopx&ent Library Which I take it you say you asrer looked at. Kaye you Been oyer there and Looked to see shat they have on \S asbestos in your own library, sir? 8ooe people fro* the fira hare done that. X hare sot \ personally done that. Veil, did they report back to you what they found? Bothia* specific. Did they tell you there was a 13 tsxtbook orer there in your library on industrial dust by Phillip Drinker and Theodore Match that had a whole section os aebestosis and Mow it had been reported to kill people? Did they tell you that, sir? So. Did they tell you there was a textbook in there dated 1940 sailed the Cheaistry of Industrial Toxicology, by a Dr. Zlkins, that it had a whole section os asbestos ia it? Bo response. Jr-t fg*? \ Did they tell you that ia 1930 a pnblloatl^a the Later- Set tonal Labor Office of Geoere that h&e m? 'chapter on S3. 6M asbestos ifid asbestosis? I tele it froa four silence (A aobody told you that, did they? ^\ v V*-` " Those articles axa perhaps dealing with genoral problems that apply in insulation application. * Did thsy how you this one pacifically, doctor, a text book on -- -- I as not a doctor. 1 aa sorry, did they show you a textbool callsd Occupational Medic ins and Industrial Hygiene by Louis Batiste Johnston (phonetically), dated 1948 and bears a stasp of having bsan received in your Besearch Library, Joplin, Missouri, August 29, 1953, and Dr. Johnston writes in 1948 that asbestosis is a ocaparitivwly nww disease. Tfcw first oomprehsolve report regarding asbestosis case from an Bogliah writer in the years 1920 and 1925. In Aaerioa in the early *30*a etudies ware Bade by Lanza, ftahra, Bluaiield and others. Asbestos is a hydrated Magnesia silicate. Occupational exposure occurs In those trades where it is used for packing, insulating, or fireproofing or where it is combined with cotton or other Materials and textile process. And then it goes on and discusses the fact of be? asbestosis kills human beings. Did you knov that was in with insulation products are exposed and s V 'JZisk? *' A It seen* to infer that, yea. 29. aM L BY TEE COURT: The question is, did you know t it n s in your library? ?^ ' So, Z did not. r ^ . Do you know anybody associated with your company who er bothered to go over there end reed whet you had in your own library about bow asbestos was killing human beings in the `20's, SO,a and *40', air? That library you refer to was maintained in Joplin, Missouri and erred several operating divisions of the ooapany, most of tbea were in the metal and chemical business, not insulation. Veil, did you ewer call these fellows up and ask thee what might be available if you were going to get into the asbestos business in 1931? The fiber people were sot in direct coatact with this particular research group. Veil, did you know where they were? They knew where they were, yes. Did they know where you were? X would assume so. You fellows talked to one another, dldn you have company meetings and picnics o 1 would assume they had ooapany picnics Sow, Ur. Bockstahler, the truth of the library was not but two hundred yards away.Sfe* the headquarter Xt' about that distance froa the fiber suLflufacturing _plaat, yea, ________ ^ - S<rwt do you knov about a gentleoan naced Mr. Loose, L-o-^--ef Paul Lease, Manager of Research fibers? Tea that la pronounced Lousey, Paul Loaae. Do you know he got fired froa your coop any for aierepreeenting about the hasards of aabeatoa to shipyards in Peanaylvaaia? X don't recall that Mr. Loss vas fired froa the ccapany for that raaaoa. If Mr. Enesler testified that be was discharged for hie Misleading the Mary yard os April S, 10, about the hasards Of asbestos, shat docu&ent do you hare here to dispute that? There la so document to dispute that, but I don't believe personally that vas the sole reason. Vas that one of the reasons? That oould hare been one of the reasons. Mr. Suosier said that vas the Major reaeon. may reason to dispute that? Mould you have That, of oourse, vould be Mr. Eaeeler's opinion. Ms vas the Plant Manager, vans't be? That Is eorrect. "Bov7_ss~you aithere today, air, do you belja^ that asbestos la tonic to hsoan beings? . < j$Sg':'' c A Is sooe husan being, X believo I do, ' * *T * * Q fell, what kind of hunan beings do you bcliATS it is taxic to? X think txoeasive exposure of certain type of fiber could be hazardous to certain individuals > V I*t se aak you, sir, if X can turn to another subject. If Mr. Bustler testified that these ailltary specifications fo that you were talking about where the lavy specified this, that and the other, were a creature of the Industry growing. Mould you agree with that? A X would disagree with that. Q Mould you agree with Mr. Euesler that the asbestos c eoopanles had great input into the Jiavy and in the creation of these standards, sir? X have no knowledge of that. ___ ,, In all of these doouaents that you hare looked at that were recently produced, a big stack of docuaeats where Bagle-Picher was writing the Mavy back and forth and criticising their standards and asking the to change the standards, you didn't look at those before you caae here? X ass not sure what you are speaking of. Q yv' A Q A c You didn't give your ceoeat away to the Havy, did you, eir? Ho, nor anyone else. ^ Z unde retand that. You wold it to the 8a ^ didn't you? That's right. 32. And is 1964, when you rote those letters to the people that rebranded your product, did you write a letter to the V'\ * * Ha.vy end ask their penaission to put that label os their sacks of eoent? Z do aot believe there wee correspondence with the Ms t j . So you Just put it on the e n d s of cement sad sold it, is thst correct? Are you speaking f the Bary or the regranding? To anybody. Ton didn't cell cement to come folks thst had a warning label on it and ell it to others that didn't, did you? Bo, ve did aot. And you didn't hare to go to the Bary to get their per mission to put that warning label oa there, did you? The Bavy many times specified things on packages. Bell, please try to answer my question. Tou are supposed to be familiar with these documenta. Tou have got a docu ment in your pocket or in this mass of documents over there that shows where you wrote the Bavy and asked their per mission to put that label on the side f that packag7 Bo, I don't. The truth of the matter is you didn't have to write the Bary a caution label on the side of the p*$fca$*, Asn't  And those letters 1 w were brought in hero, do they hire the Iitaguage soaewhore? ! \ |. X don't understand. \\\ >V :' vg. -t : . ' i The lottors that were brought here, do they hare the -- Caution label itself Tu, X Aoa't boH e r e that has. MB. SOTLST: Do 70a1 have aa exhibit Mr. Schsseckpepsr, that has language on it? I think X know it fairly well nysolf. ^ -- Do you agree with no, sir, there ain't ao skull or cross bones os there? On the label Itself? Tea, air. So, sir. Scald you agree with ae that if the Jury looked real hard they would aerer find the word "enncer" on there, would they? The word "cancer" is sot is the caution label. Xt doesn't ores say "danger", Just caution, doesn't it? X boilers it says eastion. Has anybody fro* ngle-?leher orer been os national T.Y. to tell the public about the hazards of asbestos to the wires aad children when the huabasd hriaga it besaa thoir clothing? 84. ) I don't believe so. ^ -s * *' In fact, all you ever did frocs 1964 to 1972 m to slap that caution label that says caution; avoid brsathins the duct. Excessive quantities of asbestos fibers say cause bodily harts, os tbs aids of your packages, isn't that true? A Jor aost of that tiae period it v u printed on the back. Q Printed or clapped it, that's all you did? A All la what regard? <3 To warn husan beings that it contained asbestos which would hill yon? A The caution label Z don't believe need that tens cither. Q That it would hill you? c A That's right. Q Pid Z understand you to tell your oounsel that your - asbestos free cement was mot as good as your asbestos s w a t ? bid I understand you to say that? A Tes, X did cay that. Q bo you know n gentleman maned P.I. Haitra? A Tes. Q bid be work for your company? A Tes, be did. bid you ever get a docuaent fro fata where be said tests that we hare run establish that asbewtos ?oe selects ire equally as good as or better them our prieq^{fec-Cote and Super M Csaeat, which contain asbestos? AS. 1 c A Mr. Maltra la & research sue and this is a laboratory test, Q fell, you got a copy oi the laboratory test, didn't you? 0 \ A ^ \W MB. MOTLEY: Tour Eonor, I didn't bars anything fancy to stick on here last night, but I narked that as Exhibit 620 and Z ask Ur. Reporter to nark it now, (Plaintiff's Exhibit 620 narked for identification. MB. MOTLEY: Y .s' Q \ Did you ever see a document iron Eagle-Picher where he suggested that the reason that asbestos had been an in gredient In the eeaent product over the years for eooooaic reasons? cA 1 don't think I understood the question. Q Did you ever see a document where somebody in your coopany i wrote that asbestos had been an ingredient in our oeeent product over the years for economic reasons versus other fiber probabilities? fell, the purchase of asbestos, of eourae, was economic reason economic excess costs. Q A * t*-' / So you put it in thsrs because it coat ore? Mo, sir, we took it out because it cost aors. Ob, you didn't take it out for health reaeons, you took it out because it cost nore. That's the t^sth X the natter, isn't it? That was one of the primary roaooasT^) .t,,. 96. S W\ I ME. MOTLEY: I don't have any further questions ol 'l this witness, Your Honor. Thank you, Mr. fcockstahler. if; ;'V_-.. BY Till COURT; Anything else? , REDIRECT EXAMINATION 1>Y ME. SCIiMECLPKPER: Let's take a look at Mr. Harrington's memorandum here of 19C2. It does have in it the information about the fact that people were Just started filing, apparently started filing asbestos Workmen's Cotnp claims out in the west, correct? A Yes. Q But when we get to the point where I believe Mr. Daily stopped it says The Associated Insulation Contractor of the Western States is now compiling information on this problem and I believe we have an excellent opportunity to place our case in the record as not being a contributing cause of any of these types of claims. Mow, in lfcfcb, what was Eagle-Picher's record with respect to workers compensn tioc claims for asbestosla or asbestos related disease? A We had no worker's coot claims. k Do you still hare the complaint in the Faciane case that Mr. Motley showed you? Yes. In reviewing this complaint, do you know tHat i* aacitlon to suing pwople who anufactured insulatic^-Sfr. Faclanc- claiad that bsr husband's condition was cpi$a4.&y things 37.  \ c such as fiberglass foamglase or cork? + ' A That seems to be indicated here yes. 9 Did they sue a couple of tobacco companies also claiming that the cigarettes that her husband aaoked contributed to his problem? A X can't detect that. X as aot sure if that is correct. Should X rerlss this? BT TEE C0CH2T: I as aot sure that is necessary. X don't know if we really aeed that. Be are aot trying that lawsuit. HE. SCHEFCSPEPEE: Tell, let ase ask you one ore Question about this. The fact of the attar is that both Plaintiffs in answer to C our interrogatories that this lawsuit if dismissed by the Court against Eagle-Picher as haying no basis, oorrect? Tell, since 1 h&yc no prior knowledge of the case 1 don't knov shat the dlspoeition van. If that's what was stated in our answer to the Plaintiff's interrogatories which came from the record of Bagle-Picber X assume you would agree that information is correct? s r - VV w* X would sake that assumption, yes. Oce more Question. I ahow you ay copy. Paragraphs 30 and 31, Urs. Taciane claims that Seynolds ^obaooo Company ft J , ' >' . aad P. Lorillard Coapxny were also rwspoaLlc.iar her t husband's condition, correct? 38.  > A That 1 what SO and 31 indicates, yes. Ton also haw the coesplaint of Pickard in front X you. I guess you didn't get that on. - >r> ^ V ?>- Z don't believe Z do. ~ Vould you explain to the Jury what you mean whn you said fu g itiv e dujrt? A Fugitive dust or nuisance dust is a term th hygienists as for cosmoditles they don't eonsidr endangers anyone's health. Q And Mr. Pickard in addition to the word "asbestos" which appears mi Page 4, also oooplaine of things such as wasts froa iron-ore slag alneral slag, silicate, saoko, fuses, Insulation wood and a number of other things, correct? A That is correct, those were all elements that exist in a mineral fiber plant. Q In addition to the copy of the complaint in Pickard, which we provided the Plaintiff, and also give the Plaintiff a eopy of Sir. Pickard's medical report froa Mr. Pickard's 4octor7 correct? A Z believe that is oorrect. Q Mr. Pickard's doctor did aot diagnose Sir. Pickard as having an asbestos related disease, did he, according to what is oo the face of the report? That is also oorroct Q Sr. Sot ley made reference to the B&sorandux* fialtra. 3* Would you tell the Jury what you meant when you aaid that although you testified la your opinion that asbestos free cement didn't work as well Haitra said it worked as well or better but he was a researcher. Tell the Jury what you meant fc7 that. hr. Kaltra at that particular time frame, which is August of 1971 did have the opinion, however, his evaluation of any product including insulation cement was one of laboratory nature and taking that product iron a half pound sample and having that performed under controlled situations in laboratories is not necessarily the same as taking the fifty pound bag of the product out in Green Bay Wisconsin, in the middle of the winter and having it work the earn as an aebestoa containing product. When you started sending the test batches of asbestos free cement to the trade to be tested, what kind of response did you get? Our Initial efforts were quite dieasterous. KB. BCEBEOCPEPEB: Thank you, nothing further. &BCBO&8 CULMIMATIQR: KB. MOTLEY: Would you agree, Hr. Bockstnhler, that one of the most ooKson and aleo one of the most dusty operations faced by * A *" asbestos and worker is hand mixing aebestoa earnest? Z would mot agree with that. *T'*i 'tv vT1''- s. ' t\ i 4 ( Tou weren't here when your lawyor Bade bis opening argument to the Jury, were you? i /, #A ; q ' Z don't believe b o . \r Would you accept By word that he said Dr. Selikoff was a food scientise and brought to the attention of the asbestos ooopaaiee that hazards of asbestos? M&. BQQC5CEPEPXB: Z would stipulate what I said. l Hoe do you define asbestos eotspanies? M2. MOTL2T: Q Well, your attorney Just stipulated that he said that. A Tell, if you go oa that basis. Q Yon were In the asbestos business, weren't you? C A For a while. A portion of our oosipany manufactured an asbestos ooatainiag insulation product. I don't know if that would elaseify us as an asbestos aanufacturer. Q Did you sake a produot called Xagle-Picher 20? A Mo response. Q Didn't you testify in the United States District Court of Virginia before a federal judge that you had a product called 20 or Sagle-Picher 20 that contained 100 percent asbestoe? Yes, Z did. Well, this Dr. Selikoff who your lawyer said is a fine scientist wrote this document, 8a h l b & f$Sj that 1 read to you, you don't agree with him? 41. pleaae? BY TEE COUBT: BE. BOTL2T; 1970. That la the date ef the document, Q JUre you ever been abroad ahip and watched them mix It up? A Tea. Q You bare. Do you think thin la duaty, Mr. Socketabler? (Mr. Motley bowing Mr. Socketabler a photo.) 1 That appear duaty, yea. Q Mare you ewer seen any photograph of ceaent being mixed up creating that kind of duat? A Ho. la that what thia la allegedly? Q That do you think it la? A I hare no Idea. MR. MOTLEY: Z hare ao further questions, Tour Eoaor. MR. SCBMECkPEPER; go questions. BT THE COURT: (Tltness Excused) All right, you may atop down. BT TEE COURT: Let'a take a short break. Ve will glre you aatll 11:SO. (Hearing resumed and there was a reading of depositions which are not a part of this transcript.) 43 STATE OP flSCCHSIS aiLiAum: c o m m ) ) 3. ) ' ' I, h e r e b y CSBTirr that I US u official Court Reporter in and for Branch S3 of the Circuit Court, County of Milwaukee, State of lisconsin; that Z waa present at the taking of the foregoing proceeding* and that I recorded said proceedings in machine ahorthand; that Z hare carefully compared aid machine ahorthand notes with the foregoing transcript, consisting of Pages 1 through 43, and find the aame to be a full, true and correct copy, in typewritten longhand, of aty original machine ahorthand notes taken at aaid proceedings. Dated at MIL1AXZE, WISCC8SIX, th 882. Official Court Reporter Branch 32 A C