Document yrZ7xNMjkQB5yBEMBoRvrDOLD

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA EASTERN DIVISION ____________ _x WALTER OWENS, et al. , Plaintiffs, v. : : Case No. : CV-96-P-0440-E : : MONSANTO COMPANY, : Defendant. : ____ -- _______x Videotaped Deposition of E. SCOTT TUCKER, III, PH. D. VOLUME I (Taken by Plaintiffs) Charlotte, North Carolina Tuesday, August 1, 2000 Reported by: Sydney C. Silva Registered Professional Reporter Notary Public 1 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055249 1 APPEARANCES: 2 For the Plaintiffs: 3 JAMES L. "LARRY" WRIGHT, ESQUIRE Mithoff & Jacks, Attorneys at Law 4 111 Congress, Suite 1010 Austin, Texas 78701 5 Telephone: (512) 478-4422 Fax: (523) 478-5015 6 and 7 ROBERT E. SHIELDS, ESQUIRE Doffermyre Shields Canfield Knowles & Devine 9 1355 Peachtree Street, Suite 1600 Atlanta, Georgia 30309 10 Telephone: (404) 881-8900 Fax: (404) 881-3007 11 12 For the Defendant: 13 D. MARSH PRAUSE, ESQUIRE Smith, Helms, Mulliss & Moore, LLP 14 300 North Greene Street, Suite 1400 Greensboro, North Carolina 27420 15 Telephone: (910) 378-5380 Fax: (910) 379-9558 16 17 Deposition of E. SCOTT TUCKER, III, 18 PH.D., taken by the Plaintiffs at Smith Helms 19 Mullis & Moore, LLP, 30th Floor, 20 Interstate/Johnson Lane Building, 201 North Tryon, 21 Charlotte, North Carolina, on the 1st day of 22 August, 2000, 10:29 a.m., before Sydney C. Silva, 23 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary 24 Public. 25 2 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055250 1 CONTENTS - VOLUME I 2 THE WITNESS EXAMINATION 3 E. SCOTT TUCKER, III, PH.D. 4 BY MR. WRIGHT 6 5 6 EXHIBITS - VOLUME I 7 NUMBER IDENTIFIED 1 Fax from Prater to Prowse (sic) 4 7/31/00, with attached Notice 9 of Deposition and Notice to Produce Documents at Deposition, 10 8 pages 11 2 Expert Report of E. Scott 6 Tucker, III, Ph.D., with 12 attached curriculum vitae, 10 pages 13 3 "Project: Electrical Fluids - 99 Part VI - Air and Water 14 Pollution Control, MONS 037992 - 037993 15 4 Documents bearing Bates 144 16 numbers per attached list (Actual documents attached 17 to original of deposition only by agreement of counsel) 18 5 Report No. 2970, Final Report 184 19 on Aroclor in Gases, 3/15/54, DSW 147758 -147781 20 6 Organical Chemicals Division 240 21 R&D Laboratories, St. Louis, MONS 044289 - 044293 22 23 (Exhibits 1-3, 5 and 6 attached.) 24 25 3 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055251 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 (Deposition Exhibit No. 1 marked for 3 identification.) 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Today's date is 5 August 1st, 2000. This is the tape number 1 6 of the video deposition of Dr. E. Scott 7 Tucker, III, in the matter of Walter Owens et 8 al versus Monsanto Company in the United 9 States District Court for the Northern 10 District of Alabama, Eastern Division, Case 11 No. CV-96-P-0440-E. 12 This deposition is being held at the 13 offices of Smith Helms Mulliss and Moore, 201 14 North Tryon Street, Charlotte, North 15 Carolina. We're on the record at 10:29. 16 Will counsel introduce themselves, 17 please. 18 MR. WRIGHT: Larry Wright for the 19 Plaintiffs. 20 MR. SHIELDS: Robert Shields for the 21 Plaintiffs. 22 MR. PRAUSE: Marsh Prause on behalf of 23 the Monsanto Company. 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court 25 reporter please swear in the witness. 4 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055252 1 (Witness sworn.) 2 MR. WRIGHT: Before the deposition 3 starts, let's set out the ground rules that 4 we talked about before the deposition. 5 And, Mr. Prause, my understanding of our 6 agreement and understanding for this 7 deposition is is that all objections are 8 reserved except for form of the question and 9 responsiveness of the answer. And you 10 indicated that you would like for the doctor 11 to have the opportunity to review and sign 12 the deposition and that's fine. I think we 13 have plenty of time. 14 What's the normal routine in North 15 Carolina, 30 days? 16 THE REPORTER: Two weeks to deliver the 17 order to the attorney, and then the attorney 18 will transmit to their client, and then their 19 client has 30 days. 20 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. That sounds fine to 21 me. 22 MR. PRAUSE: And what she just 23 represented is an accurate depiction or 24 representation of our understanding. 25 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 5 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055253 1 MR. WRIGHT: Now I have marked as 2 Exhibit 1 notice for the deposition. I don't 3 really think we need to talk about that any 4 more other than to note for the record that 5 you have produced a stack of documents that 6 were reviewed by the doctor prior to the 7 deposition in response to some agreements by 8 counsel and the notice of the deposition. 9 MR. PRAUSE: That's accurate, yes. 10 MR. WRIGHT: The second exhibit is going 11 to be what has been provided to us in this 12 case as Dr. Tucker's report. 13 (Deposition Exhibit No. 2 marked for 14 identification.) 15 MR. WRIGHT: I would like for Dr. Tucker 16 to look at that, please, and make sure, first 17 of all, that that is his report. 18 Whereupon, E. SCOTT TUCKER, III, PH. D. , having 19 been duly sworn, was examined and testified as 20 follows: 21 EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. WRIGHT: 23 Q. I believe attached to the report is a 24 CV. And I would like to talk about them 25 separately if we can. I would like for you to 6 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055254 1 look at the report first and then I'm going to ask 2 you some questions about the VC. 3 A. (Witness peruses document.) I have 4 completed looking at it. 5 Q. I'm sorry? 6 A. I say I have completed looking at it as 7 requested. 8 Q. Okay. Is that your most current expert 9 report in this case? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Is that the only expert report that you 12 have prepared for this case? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. Now you have given testimony, I 15 know, in two other case that is are related to the 16 Anniston situation. And I believe the official 17 names of those are the Dyer case, does that sound 18 familiar. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And the, do you remember the name of the 21 other case? 22 A. Not off the top of my head, I'm sorry. 23 MR. PRAUSE: I would be glad to give it 24 to you if you would like. 25 MR. WRIGHT: I think I have got it right 7 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055255 1 here, let me just make sure. Because I want 2 to know that I have got all his depositions. 3 Do you have it off the top of your head? 4 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah, it's the Abernathy 5 case. 6 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 7 BY MR. WRIGHT: 8 Q. So the Abernathy case, the Dyer case. 9 Were you deposed in the Mars Hill case? 10 A. I don't believe I was. 11 MR. PRAUSE: I think that's correct, I 12 think he was not. And I can confirm that for 13 you if it becomes important. 14 MR. WRIGHT: I would like that to be 15 confirmed. 16 MR. PRAUSE: Sure. 17 MR. WRIGHT: Because I want to make sure 18 that I have all of the depositions that 19 Dr. Tucker has given, period, relating to 20 PCBs; but specifically I want to start that 21 list with all of the depositions that he has 22 given relating to the Anniston situation. 23 MR. PRAUSE: All right. I can have that 24 confirmed for you that he was not deposed in 25 Mars Hill later today. 8 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055256 1 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 2 BY MR. WRIGHT: 3 Q. But so to the best of your recollection 4 you have given two previous depositions in the 5 Anniston cases, and those are the two we just 6 mentioned? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Now I received late yesterday two other 9 depositions that you have given in PCB-related 10 cases. And one of those is the United States 11 versus Outboard Marine and Monsanto, and it says 12 it was taken in April of '82. Do you recall that 13 deposition? 14 A. Yes, I do. 15 Q. Taken in Connecticut, it looks like? 16 A. I believe it was taken in Stamford, 17 Connecticut, if I recall it correctly. 18 Q. Then another deposition that I got late 19 yesterday afternoon is the Transwestern Pipeline 20 Company vs. Monsanto case. And this says that 21 that deposition was taken in Greenville, South 22 Carolina, in June of '92. 23 Do you recall that deposition? 24 A. Yes, I do. 25 Q. Okay. Have you given any other 9 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055257 1 PCB-related depositions other than the ones we 2 have talked about? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. Tell me which ones. 5 A. I was afraid you would ask that 6 question. You're going to challenge my memory 7 here. But there are documents available certainly 8 much more accurate than my memory tends to be 9 sometimes. 10 MR. WRIGHT: Well, the problem is they 11 are not available to me. 12 MR. PRAUSE: Well, actually, we supplied 13 you with also the deposition transcript for 14 his deposition in Nevada Power. And it's a 15 thin one, so I think maybe it might be in 16 that box and you may have missed it. 17 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 18 MR. PRAUSE: If it is not in there, I 19 apologize. But I personally had that box 20 prepared to be brought over to your hotel 21 yesterday afternoon. 22 MR. WRIGHT: So you think it's in there. 23 MR. PRAUSE: I do. 24 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 25 BY MR. WRIGHT: 10 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055258 1 Q. Besides Nevada Power, any others? 2 A. I believe there's a deposition for the 3 Pennsylvania Attorney General's office in a 4 DOT-related case in a building in Harrisburg. Let 5 me think, there's one more -- but not, no, that's 6 not PCBs. The Harrisburg one is PCBs. 7 Q. When would that have been taken? 8 A. It had to be within the last four years 9 would be my guess. 10 Q. Where was it taken? 11 A. The deposition -- well, it wasn't a 12 deposition, it was an expert report. 13 You're asking specifically about 14 depositions? That's what I'm saying, my memory 15 is? 16 Q. Right now I'm asking about depositions, 17 which is the procedure we're going through here. 18 A. That's fine. I'm sorry I got confused, 19 I apologize for that. 20 Q. Okay. So you think that's all the 21 depositions now? 22 A. It sounds as if that's a fairly complete 23 list, yes. 24 Q. Okay. Now you mentioned the Harrisburg 25 case, which is a PCB case, that you gave a report 11 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055259 1 in? 2 A. I provided an expert report on a PCB 3 situation there, yes. 4 Q. Okay. Was that report any longer than 5 the page-and-a-half report we have in this case? 6 A. The report itself, no. Some of the 7 referenced documents made it longer but the report 8 itself was about the same scope as this. 9 Q. And was that for Monsanto? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay, who? 12 A. That was for the Pennsylvania Attorney 13 General's office. 14 Q. Okay. So you were retained by the 15 Pennsylvania Attorney General's office? 16 A. Correct, relative to PCB contamination 17 of a building. 18 Q. Is Monsanto a Defendant in that case? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you have a copy of that report? 21 A. Do I have a copy of it with me? 22 Q. No, no, no, not with you - 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. -- but I mean in your office or your 25 home or somewhere? 12 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055260 1 A. Yes, copies are available. 2 Q. Okay. To your knowledge, does Monsanto 3 have a copy of that report? 4 A. Not to my knowledge. 5 Q. Okay. The report was provided to the 6 Pennsylvania Attorney General's office pursuant to 7 litigation against Monsanto? 8 A. Ultimately, yes. 9 Q. Okay. Was the report given before the 10 litigation began? 11 A. The report was actually given early on 12 when they asked me some questions and asked me to 13 provide expert opinions on PCBs that were being 14 found in the building, things of that sort. I 15 provided that report. I didn't provide that 16 report specifically for any litigation or anything 17 of that sort; I provided it as informational to 18 the Attorney General's office. 19 Q. I got you. And then later on litigation 20 occurred? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And you don't know whether that report 23 was provided to Monsanto or not in the litigation? 24 A. I do not have knowledge of that fact. 25 Q. And you were not deposed in that case? 13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055261 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Generally, what did the report say? 3 A. It dealt with the analytical chemistry 4 of PCBs and the identification of certain ones 5 which I have expertise in. 6 Q. I assume you confirmed the presence of 7 PCBs in samples that you reviewed? 8 A. I reviewed the data that I was provided 9 and I provided them a statement relative to the 10 efficacy of the information and to whether or not 11 it was gathered in an appropriate manner and 12 possibly some scientific conclusions that could be 13 determined from some of the things that were seen. 14 It's typical expert opinions in an area 15 that you are an expert in. 16 Q. I understand. What other cases have you 17 given expert opinions in PCB-related matters? Now 18 actually that's a bad question because it's overly 19 broad. 20 Have you testified either at trial or in 21 deposition in other PCB-related cases other than 22 the Monsanto cases that we have talked about? 23 A. I don't believe I have. 24 Q. Have you given expert reports in 25 litigation relating to PCBs in cases other than 14 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055262 1 the ones that we have already talked about? 2 A. I do not believe that expert reports 3 that were provided had to do with PCBs. I think 4 you've covered them all. 5 Q. Okay. You have consulted in other 6 litigation, in other kinds of litigation? 7 A. Yes, I have. 8 Q. As an expert witness? 9 A. Yes, I have. 10 Q. You have given depositions in other 11 kinds of litigation as an expert witness? 12 A. Yes, I have. 13 Q. Have you ever testified in trial in 14 other kinds of litigation as an expert witness? 15 A. Yes, I have. 16 Q. How many times in trial? 17 A. I believe I have gone -- I have been in 18 trial twice. And by that, where I actually 19 appeared on the stand myself, not where a 20 deposition was given. 21 Q. About how many depositions have you 22 given? 23 A. Since? 24 Q. Ever. 25 A. Okay. I would guess on the order of 15 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055263 1 eight or nine, something like that, total. 2 Q. Just briefly, the other cases that do 3 not relate to PCBs, what did they, what did your, 4 the substance of your testimony relate to? 5 A. Again, it was related to reviewing 6 analytical data that was generated by labs, 7 analyzing the environmental samples, ensuring the 8 client that the laboratory in question generated 9 the information properly and that it met all the 10 Environmental Protection Agency guidelines, and 11 that the information that was produced was 12 defensible and reflective of what it was intended 13 to be. 14 Q. All right. Have you reviewed -- this is 15 taking this a little bit out of order -- but have 16 you reviewed Monsanto's testing information 17 relating to Anniston that has been done in the 18 last three or four years? 19 A. Okay. Have I done that in the last 20 three or four years? Or has the information been 21 accumulated in the last three or four years? 22 Q. Let me explain. 23 A. I'm not trying to be difficult. I just 24 don't understand the question. 25 Q. Let me explain because I want to make 16 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055264 1 sure I understand what you have done so far. And 2 I can probably do it in a better chronological 3 manner but this is the way I'm going to do it. 4 You know, of course, from your 5 involvement in this and the other Anniston cases 6 that there has been a lot of testing and sampling 7 and analytical reporting done relating to PCBs in 8 the Anniston area in the last three or four years, 9 correct? 10 A. I don't have direct knowledge of all of 11 the information that has been generated but it 12 would not surprise me that a lot of sampling and 13 analysis had been done in the area. 14 Q. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm trying to 15 get at? 16 A. That's correct. So I'm sure, the answer 17 to the question -18 Q. Are you aware - 19 A. -- so I'm sure there is a lot. 20 Q. So you are aware that it has been done? 21 That's the first question. 22 A. Am I aware of all of the sampling and 23 analysis that has been done in the Anniston area 24 relative to PCBs, is that your question? 25 Q. No. 17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055265 1 A. Okay. I'm sorry. 2 Q. That's all right. 3 A. I want to answer your question but I 4 want to answer it properly. 5 Q. No we'll take our time. That's all 6 right. 7 The question is, are you aware that a 8 significant amount of sampling and analysis of 9 that sampling has been done in the last few years 10 relating to PCBs in the Anniston area around and 11 downstream from the Monsanto Anniston plant? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Have you reviewed any of that testing 14 and sampling data for Monsanto? 15 A. I have reviewed some information that 16 was generated by a laboratory, but I don't think 17 it was specific to this particular deposition or 18 the case. 19 Q. Well, it was related to the Anniston 20 situation, correct? 21 A. I'm trying to remember. I'm sure it 22 was. 23 When I review information, I'm not so 24 much concerned about where it comes from or where 25 the samples come from and things of that sort. 18 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055266 1 I'm more concerned about the process by which the 2 materials, once they are received by the 3 laboratory, is handled: Chain of custodies. 4 Whether or not they use appropriate techniques. 5 When they look at the information whether or not 6 they are interpreting it properly and things of 7 that sort. So my focus is not on who, what and 8 where as far as the sampling is concerned; my 9 focus is on the data package itself. 10 So my recollection is that it probably 11 had to do with the Anniston area and that kind of 12 thing but I don't specifically remember where, 13 what or when. 14 Q. Okay. Do you remember who the lab - 15 what the laboratory was? 16 A. I believe the name of the laboratory was 17 Bonner. 18 Q. All right. So you reviewed Dr. Bonner's 19 results, you believe? 20 A. Yes, I reviewed some of Dr. Bonner's 21 results. 22 Q. Right. 23 A. I'm sure I didn't review every PCB 24 analysis he has done. 25 Q. Did you have criticisms of Dr. Bonner's 19 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055267 1 analysis ? 2 A. I wouldn't call them criticisms, I'd 3 call them opinions. 4 Q. Well, what opinions did you have 5 relating to Dr. Bonner's analysis that you recall? 6 A. The opinions were that there, the way 7 that the people did the analysis was overall 8 acceptable but there were excursions and there 9 were some indications of lack of experience in 10 terms of interpretation of the data and things of 11 that sort. 12 Q. Was that reduced to a written report? 13 A. It, I think it was, yes. 14 Q. Other than Dr. Bonner's materials, have 15 you been asked by Monsanto to review any other 16 sampling or testing data from Anniston in the past 17 few years? 18 A. I think the Bonner data is primarily 19 what I have been asked to review. 20 Q. You have not reviewed any of the data 21 generated by the EPA? 22 A. I review a lot of data generated by the 23 EPA. 24 Q. Relating to Anniston? 25 A. No, I'm not trying to -- I, I can only 20 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055268 1 answer the question the way you ask it. And I do 2 review a lot of information generated by the EPA 3 in my regular job. 4 Q. Yeah. 5 Hang on? 6 A. In terms of Anniston, no, I don't think 7 so. 8 Q. Okay. For right now all of my questions 9 relate to Monsanto and PCBs downstream from the 10 Monsanto Anniston facility. 11 A. Okay? 12 Q. Okay? 13 A. So specifically we will be discussing 14 things that have to do with one, with Monsanto; 15 two, with Anniston, and, three, downstream and 16 PCBs . 17 Q. Well, I say "downstream," in the 18 vicinity of the Monsanto Anniston plant. 19 MR. PRAUSE: Well, you're not limiting 20 it to the aquatic media? 21 MR. WRIGHT: No. 22 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 23 BY MR. WRIGHT: 24 Q. And no, that isn't for the rest of our 25 time. That's just for this series of questions. 21 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055269 1 I just want to know what you have done on behalf 2 of Monsanto or in relation to Monsanto in the 3 Anniston situation in the last few years. 4 A. Okay, I'll -5 Q. We'll go back in history in a little 6 while. 7 A. Okay. I believe so far that that 8 information has been given to you in an accurate 9 manner. 10 Q. Which is - 11 A. I said that -- 12 Q. No, let me just - 13 THE REPORTER: One at a time, please, 14 gentlemen. 15 Q. Let me just make sure that we're clear. 16 You mentioned that you have reviewed Dr. Bonner's, 17 some, maybe all of Dr. Bonner's material, and 18 given some opinions relating to that, correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. My next question is, have you reviewed 21 any other testing or sampling results relating to 22 Monsanto and Anniston and PCBs? And that would 23 include some of the testing that I know has 24 occurred. There has been testing and sampling by 25 the EPA; there has been testing and sampling I 22 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055270 1 believe by ADEM, Alabama Department of 2 Environmental Management; there has been testing 3 and sampling by Monsanto's own consultants, 4 including among them Garrity and Miller, I 5 believe, Goldman and Associates -6 MR. PRAUSE: Objection to the form. 7 Sorry. 8 Q. -- and certain outfits like that. 9 Have you reviewed any other material 10 relating to Monsanto and Anniston and PCBs? 11 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 12 question. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. In the last few years? 15 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 16 question. 17 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. This time I'm going 18 to ask for an explanation. Did I leave 19 somebody out or put somebody in that 20 shouldn't be in? 21 A. I'm glad you asked the last few years. 22 The answer to that question is no. 23 MR. PRAUSE: I think you, well, you 24 mentioned Goldman and Associates; I think 25 it's Golder. 23 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055271 1 MR. WRIGHT: Golder. 2 THE WITNESS: Right. 3 MR. PRAUSE: And, and I, it was a very 4 long question, I wasn't sure if it was a 5 compound question or what. 6 MR. WRIGHT: All right. 7 BY MR. WRIGHT: 8 Q. With the correction and recognizing that 9 it was a long question, the short answer is no, 10 you haven't looked at any of that stuff? 11 A. That is correct. The short answer is 12 no. I said no. 13 Q. All right. Do you anticipate looking at 14 any of that material? 15 A. You mean have I been asked? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. To look at any of that material? 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. At this point in time? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. No. 22 Q. Have you discussed with Monsanto 23 reviewing any of the other testing and analysis 24 other than Dr. Bonner's? 25 A. No. 24 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055272 1 Q. So that hadn't come up in any of your 2 discussions with Monsanto? 3 A. I believe I said no to your question. 4 Q. Now is it fair to say then that the only 5 documents that you reviewed in preparation for 6 your deposition testimony today are the documents 7 that were provided to us this morning? 8 A. Yes, that's fair to say. 9 Q. When did you review those documents? 10 A. I reviewed the documents yesterday in 11 this room, as a matter of fact, with Mr. Prause. 12 Q. When did you all start and end your 13 review? 14 A. I think must have been started around 15 9:00, I would imagine. Was it later than that? 16 What time did I get here? 17 I guess the actual real review started 18 after lunch when we came back and we started going 19 through the stack of documents that have been 20 provided you. 21 Q. All right. So you met without looking 22 at the documents before lunch; and then after 23 lunch, you went through the documents themselves? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. What time did you finish up? 25 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055273 1 A. That I remember, it was 7:00. 2 Q. In the evening? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Now obviously this is not the first time 5 that you have met with Mr. Prause, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. How many other times have you met with 8 Mr. Prause? 9 A. I think, I think it has been twice, 10 possibly three times, before. 11 Q. Okay. I know you met with him at one of 12 the depositions? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. I know you met with him before that 15 deposition, correct? 16 A. Right. As I said, I believe that it is 17 three. That's my recollection at this point. 18 Q. Okay. Well, what I'm trying to pin down 19 is when and where they were. So one of them was 20 yesterday, you met with him yesterday? 21 A. Let me ask a question, if I may? 22 Q. Sure. 23 A. You are inquiring, you're asking 24 relative to this case? Or are you asking in 25 general? 26 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055274 1 Q. I'm asking ever in your life. 2 A. Okay. And I -3 Q. Are you his Godfather, or I'm just 4 wondering -5 MR. PRAUSE: I wish. 6 Q. -- how many times you met with him 7 relating to anything. 8 A. Right. The reason I'm asking is because 9 you have been making things very specific and then 10 converting back to very general. 11 Q. Right. And I'm going to do that. 12 A. And I want to do an honest accurate job 13 answering your questions, so that's why I'm 14 asking. So if you asking me how many times in my 15 life have I met with Mr. Prause, I'm going to go 16 back to around three times. 17 Q. Okay. And just for your, for your 18 benefit, sometimes I'm going to ask general 19 questions and sometimes I'm going to ask real 20 specific questions. And sometimes I'm going to 21 let you know whether I'm being general and 22 specific and sometimes I'm not. 23 So if you have a question, just continue 24 to do as you are doing and ask me to clarify my 25 question and I'll be delighted to do that. 27 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055275 1 Because, obviously, I want to make sure that by 2 the end of this deposition that you have only 3 answered questions that you understand; and it is 4 not to any of our benefit for you to answer 5 questions that you don't understand. 6 A. I appreciate that and it is comforting 7 that you will allow me to clarify it when I don't 8 understand it. 9 Q. Okay. So you met with him yesterday; 10 you met with him the day of the other deposition 11 that he presented you at? 12 A. I believe that was the one in 13 Greenville; is that correct? 14 Q. Yes. You met with him before that in 15 preparation for that deposition? 16 A. I don't know that it was specific for -17 do you mean the day before the deposition and the 18 day of the deposition? Are those counted as two 19 meetings or one meeting? 20 Q. That's counted as two meetings. 21 A. Yes. That's correct. 22 Q. Okay. Have there ever, have there been 23 any other meetings between you and Mr. Prause? 24 A. I believe I met Mr. Prause one time at 25 another law firm but I, I wouldn't swear to that. 28 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055276 1 Q. What do you mean, "at another law firm"? 2 I'm not sure. When he was working in another law 3 firm, or? 4 A. When he was at another law firm in, at 5 another law firm in Birmingham, Alabama. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. Not that he worked there -- 8 Q. I understand. 9 A. -- he was just there. 10 Q. That's where the meeting took place? 11 A. Yes, that's correct. 12 Q. At another law firm's office in 13 Birmingh am, Alabama? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Do you remember about when that meeting 16 was? 17 A. As I stated, I'm not sure we met there 18 for sure . I just -- it just -- My recollection 19 seems to indicate that we may have. 20 Q. Okay. You met with some lawyers 21 relating to the Anniston situation in the 22 Birmingh am office? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And Mr. Prause may have been there and 25 may not cave been there? 29 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2' WATER PCB-SD0000055277 1 A. Yes, and I don't recall if he was or not 2 for sure. 3 Q. About when was that meeting? 4 A. Last year sometime. 5 Q. Who do you remember was present at that 6 meetings ? 7 A. Mr. Cox. And there were other names but 8 that's good enough. 9 Q. Adam Peck? 10 A. Yeah, Adam Peck was there, too. 11 Q. Harlan Prater? 12 A. Harlan I may have met in the hallway but 13 I don't think he was directly involved. But he 14 may have been. Gordon Lightfoot. 15 Q. Everybody does that. It's Warren 16 Lightfoot. 17 A. Warren? Okay. I'm glad that you know 18 where it is coming from. 19 Q. It's unanimous, everybody has done that. 20 Mike Kelly? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. David Moore? 23 A. Not in, under these circumstances. I do 24 know David Moore and I have met with him in the 25 past. 30 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055278 1 Q. Was that meeting in Birmingham before or 2 in preparation for one of the other depositions? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And how long did that meeting last? 5 A. I believe it was a couple of days. 6 Q. All right. Were you the only expert 7 present at that meeting? 8 A. At the specific meeting that I was at, I 9 was the one that they were talking to, yes. 10 Q. And was the meeting immediately before 11 your deposition or was it some extended period 12 before your deposition? 13 A. We met the day before the deposition. 14 Q. All right. Now I want to go back 15 chronologically and kind of start at the 16 beginning. And if you will hand me your CV? 17 A. Sure. 18 Q. We're not going to go over all this 19 material that has been gone over many times 20 before. But you began your undergraduate career 21 at the University of Michigan, correct? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. You graduated from Michigan State 24 University with a Bachelor of Science degree? 25 A. Correct. 31 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055279 1 Q. And then you went to the University of 2 Iowa for your Ph.D.? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And you graduated from the University of 5 Iowa with a Ph.D. in February of 1968? 6 A. That's correct, February 3, 1968. 7 Q. Do you recall when you started at 8 Monsanto? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What date did you start at Monsanto? 11 A. I don't recall the specific date. The 12 year was 1967. Probably the first quarter or 13 something like that. 14 Q. You think you started towards the 15 beginning of '67? 16 A. That's my recollection, yes. 17 Q. Did you start in the St. Louis office? 18 A. They have multiple offices in the 19 St. Louis area. I started at the Queeny Plant on 20 South Second Street. 21 Q. What was your first job with Monsanto? 22 A. My first job with Monsanto was as a 23 senior research chemist for the Organic Division. 24 Q. And what were your duties? 25 A. My duties were to provide chemistry 32 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055280 1 support in the form of analytical chemistry 2 specifically for the Organics Division. 3 Q. And What did that mean on a day-to-day 4 basis, what kind of analytical support did you 5 provide? 6 A. It meant on a day-to-day basis that I 7 analyzed samples of materials of interest to 8 Monsanto for various constituents so they would 9 know what they were made of, or how much was 10 there, or how much was still there, and that kind 11 of thing. 12 Q. Okay. Right now I'm staying at the 13 beginning, okay? The '67 time frame. 14 A. Uh-huh. 15 Q. How did you analyze those materials? 16 A. Okay. My first assignment at Monsanto 17 when I came there was to look into an area called 18 atomic absorption spectroscopy. What they were 19 interested in was a very new technique at that 20 time that had just come out; and they were 21 interested in acquiring the instrumentation and 22 the equipment and the expertise and the experience 23 to have that analytical technique available to 24 them to analyze their products and their, and to 25 monitor things in their processes. 33 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055281 1 And so they asked me to look into it and 2 see what was the state-of-the-art; determine the 3 appropriate instrumentation that we might be 4 interested in buying; estimate the costs, the 5 timing, and the amount of effort to get the 6 instrumentation installed; and of course what kind 7 of facility would be needed to put the instrument 8 in. 9 And 5Then once that was done, what it 10 would do for us, and to evaluate it and become 11 familiar with it. 12 Q. So that was your specific job? 13 A. That's correct, that was my specific 14 assignment. 15 Q. That's what you were brought in to do 16 and that was -- I just want to know if that was 17 what you were, when you hired on they said, 18 "Dr. Tucker," well, you weren't a doctor then, 19 but, "Mr. Tucker, here's what we want you to do. 20 We want you to get us up to speed on this new 21 technology." 22 A. When they brought me in they wanted me 23 to function as an analytical chemist providing 24 analytical chemistry support for their division. 25 The project that was of most interest to them at 34 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055282 1 the time happened to be atomic absorption 2 spectroscopy, which is method for measuring metal 3 content of things. 4 They could have assigned me to a lot of 5 things but that's what they did when I got there. 6 Q. Right. That's what I'm trying to figure 7 out is that was the first major assignment that 8 you got was to get us up to speed on that 9 particular technology? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did your role or your, the main thrust 12 of your job ever change? 13 A. On what I worked on specifically - 14 Q. Yes. 15 A. -- or as an analytical chemist? Because 16 I have been an analytical chemist for 33 years. 17 Q. No. We talked about your initial main 18 job was to get up to speed on this atomic 19 absorption spectroscopy? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Okay. Did you do that? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. How did you go about doing that? 24 A. As I was indicating in my earlier 25 answer, I looked into the literature, I saw what 35 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2' WATER PCB-SD0000055283 1 people were doing, I saw what state-of-the-art 2 was, I saw what the experts who had already worked 3 in the area extensively recommended. And rather 4 than reinventing the wheel, I took advantage of 5 that kind of information, which is what I was 6 supposed to do. 7 Based on the information, I made 8 decisions with regard to what I thought we should 9 acquire to be able to have that expertise 10 available to us on site. And then I made those 11 recommendations formally to my boss, who, in turn, 12 shared them with other people. 13 Then after they were properly reviewed, 14 we came back and made any adjustments that were 15 necessary and then we went ahead and ordered the 16 equipment and began the actual establishment of 17 the technique at the site. 18 Q. Was your boss at that time Mr. Keller? 19 A. Dr. Keller, yes. 20 Q. Dr. Keller. All right. When was that 21 job basically accomplished? 22 A. My guess would be that job was 23 accomplished some time in 1967. It wasn't a long 24 routine. The other thing is is that you don't 25 work on widgets today and nothing else. 36 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055284 1 Q. I understand. 2 A. I mean, you work on widgets and widgets 3 two and three and -4 Q. I understand. 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. But what I, my understanding of your 7 earlier testimony was this was the first big job 8 you got from Monsanto, the first big assignment? 9 A. Well, I'm not sure "big" characterizes 10 properly. It was the first technical assignment I 11 was given by the company. And what I did as a 12 Ph.D. was establish the technique. And then once 13 I had established it and it worked properly and I 14 could say it was producing the information it was 15 supposed to, then I trained technicians in the 16 ability to do it and then turned it over to them. 17 And then in the future I simply monitored what 18 they did. 19 Q. All right. 20 A. That was my job. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 22 MR. PRAUSE: We have been going for 23 about an hour, can we take a quick break? 24 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record 37 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055285 1 at 11:06. 2 (Recess taken.) 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the record 4 at 11:14. 5 BY MR. WRIGHT: 6 Q. All right. When we left I think we had 7 finished your first what I thought was a major 8 assignment but you didn't like me calling it a big 9 job. But I mean, isn't it fair to say that that 10 was your first major assignment for Monsanto? 11 A. It is fair to say it is simply as it was 12 my first assignment. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. That would be a way to say it, too. 15 Q. Okay. Well, let's say it that way, 16 then. What was your second assignment? 17 A. The second assignment had a little bit 18 broader scope in the sense that I became involved 19 with all of the wet chemistry techniques that were 20 utilized by the division. And ultimately that led 21 to me becoming the group leader or the supervisor 22 of the wet chemistry group. 23 Q. Now I would like for you to explain the 24 terms a little bit for me a little bit for me if 25 you would. First of all, the first assignment 38 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055286 1 that we discussed, the atomic absorption 2 spectroscopy, did not relate to PCBs? 3 A. That's correct, that would not be a 4 technique that you would use to measure PCBs. You 5 would use that technique to measure metal ions. 6 Q. Fine. Okay. The next assignment that 7 you described, you used the term "wet chemistry." 8 What do you mean by that? 9 A. "Wet chemistry" is generally a, a 10 simplistic analytical chemistry that involves 11 titrations and gravimetric precipitations and not 12 so much instrumentation. It's not a spectroscopy 13 type technique or things of that sort. It 14 involves things like titration of aqueous 15 solutions for cyanides - 16 THE REPORTER: Slow down, please. 17 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I'd be very 18 happy to do that for you; I apologize, I do 19 that a lot when I leave my phone number. 20 MR. WRIGHT: "titrations of aqueous 21 solutions ..." 22 A. Generally speaking, the sample is either 23 aqueous and you're looking for a constituent in 24 the water sample, or you take a solid matrix and 25 you dissolve it up so that it is in an aqueous 39 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055287 1 sample and you look for a constituent in there. 2 You might be looking for to determine 3 the pH or the hydrogen ion concentration of it. 4 You might be looking for the cyanide 5 concentration. You might be looking for total 6 suspended solids. You might be looking for 7 soluable salts. You might be looking for 8 chloride. You might be looking for, you might be 9 looking for any of those kinds of things. 10 Simplistic chemistry that involves more 11 of the older historical type of analytical 12 techniques, that's generally what is referred to 13 as wet chemistry. 14 Q. Okay. And your specific role in that 15 regard was to do that? 16 A. My specific role was to supervise 17 technicians and also help them develop techniques 18 and make sure they were doing them right and 19 teaching them in a group that provided that kind 20 of support, that analytical support, for the 21 Organic Division chemists and process engineers. 22 Q. And PCBs were part of the Organic 23 Division at that time? 24 A. PCBs are an organic chemical and they 25 were part of the Organic Division, yes. 40 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055288 1 Q. Did your role in supervising the wet 2 chemistry or facilitating helping the wet 3 chemistry setup have any direct relation to PCBs? 4 A. No. None. 5 Q. Okay. About how long did that job take? 6 A. As I had mentioned, jobs worked 7 concurrent -8 Q. I know, they overlapped. 9 A. -- and all of this really occurred in 10 the latter part of '67 and the earlier part of 11 1968 . 12 By the way, I'm just looking at my 13 resume here; and as I said earlier, the date that 14 I actually received my Ph.D. was February 3, 1968. 15 What that would mean is that I really joined 16 Monsanto in about the fourth quarter of 1967. 17 And what had happened was the typist had 18 missed the deadline to get the thesis in; and so I 19 had to, I went ahead and left and I came back for 20 the thesis defense and things of that sort at the 21 next available graduation, which was February 3. 22 Q. Okay. That's what I had assumed? 23 A. Yeah. 24 Q. But I'm glad you clarified on when you 25 started at Monsanto because that - 41 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055289 1 A. Well, what I had said earlier was 2 compressing things to the point to where it was 3 like, "When did I get all these things done, " and 4 that kind of thing. 5 Q. Yeah, I was wondering about that. 6 Okay. So you believe that it is more 7 accurate to say you started at Monsanto in the 8 latter part of 1967? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Okay. And so the, the completion of 11 your first assignment with regard to the atomic 12 absorption spectroscopy would have been in early 13 ' 68? 14 A. Yes. And the completion for 15 responsibility goes in phases. The initial set 16 up, the initial evaluation set up and 17 establishment of the technique would have been 18 something that I was involved directly. 19 The next phase would have been to 20 transfer that and to teach it to other people. 21 And then the third phase of that would be to have 22 continuing responsibility as a technical expert 23 for those people and to monitor them to make sure 24 they were doing it correctly so that the data was 25 all right. 42 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055290 1 And if something that they weren't 2 capable of understanding happened to the 3 instrument or to the technique, I would be 4 required to solve that. 5 Q. Let me just ask, is that, again speaking 6 to the atomic absorption spectroscopy, is that 7 something that you had worked with in your 8 graduate education at the University of Iowa? 9 A. It was something that I was aware of and 10 that I had been exposed to, but it wasn't anything 11 specific to my thesis work or my research work. 12 Q. Okay. By the way, what was your thesis? 13 A. My thesis was the, let's see, it was the 14 mono 2-aza aryl hydrazones, and the analytical -15 I'm sorry. 16 Q. All right, take your time. 17 A. The thesis was, "The Analytical 18 Chemistry of Mono 2-aza Aryl Hydrazones." 19 Q. And how did you analyze that stuff? 20 A. The thesis research really involved more 21 than analysis. It involved synthesis and design 22 of organic molecules that were specific to being 23 able to chelate with metal ions and to produce 24 chelates that were colored and whose color was 25 proportional to the amount of material present 43 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055291 1 when they reacted. 2 And so what was involved was that I had 3 to go to the original literature -- first of all, 4 I had to come up with an idea where I might like 5 to do my research in. Then I went to the original 6 literature and cruised around to see what had been 7 done. Then based on that, I decided that there 8 might be some other things that hadn't been done 9 yet that could be done. 10 And at that point I prepared a proposal 11 that could be the basis for a Ph.D. research; and 12 I put that together with appropriate literature 13 references and things of that sort, then cleared 14 it with my major professor. And then once he 15 agreed that I should go forward, then I went 16 forward with it. 17 In the area that you do original 18 research in, it's called original because it 19 hadn't been done before; otherwise, obviously, it 20 wouldn't be original. And you really start at 21 ground zero. 22 The ligands and the molecular structures 23 that I was interested in were really figments of 24 people's imagination and hadn't been put together 25 specifically to do the job I wanted to do, and so 44 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055292 1 I had to learn how to get the starting materials 2 and put those together and actually make the 3 molecules that I had designed on paper. 4 And then Once I had done that, then I 5 took those molecules and see how they interacted 6 with various transitional metal ions. And then I 7 took, when I found the proper structure that had 8 the right characteristics for these interactions, 9 then I began to develop those and exploit those 10 for analytical chemistry and develop what was 11 called colorimetric procedures for measuring 12 things in aqueous environments. 13 So what you do is if, for example, you 14 had cobalt in solution and you wanted to know how 15 much cobalt was there, you could add this ligand 16 to the solution and it would react with the 17 cobalt; it would turn the solution red; and then 18 you would read the optical density or the color, 19 the density of the color, and that could be 20 related to the concentration of the cobalt. 21 So what I did was I developed the 22 foundation for and the extension of an original 23 technique for doing analytical chemistry, 24 measuring constituents in samples. 25 Q. That would have still been considered 45 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055293 1 wet chemistry? 2 A. Pretty much, yes. 3 Q. Did that have anything at all to do with 4 PCBs or the analysis of PCBs? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Now going back to your early days at 7 Monsanto, when is your best recollection of the 8 first phase of your first job finishing up? 9 A. The first phase of the job would 10 probably be the beginning of '68 would be my 11 guess. Because by the time you ordered the 12 equipment, got it in place and that kind of thing 13 and did that. So I would guess the first part of 14 ' 68 . 15 Q. All right. And then your second 16 assignment, assisting the wet chemistry folks, 17 when did that finish up? 18 A. It probably was initiated concurrent or 19 shortly after the atomic absorption assignment. 20 We worked on more than one thing. And it would 21 probably have continued in parallel with that and 22 probably expanded as I showed the ability to 23 direct other people and to tell them what to do 24 and work with them and get the job done. 25 The transition that occurred was the 46 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055294 1 actual people that I had trained in some of these 2 techniques and that kind of stuff, when I began 3 working with PCBs later down the road, probably 4 went with me because they were familiar with 5 working with me and I moved them right along into 6 the new techniques that were being developed for 7 measuring PCBs in samples. 8 Q. Okay. Well, we'll talk about that in a 9 minute then. I would like right now to get a 10 picture of Monsanto's, what did you call yourself, 11 the Analytical Department? 12 A. We were called the Applied Sciences, if 13 I remember. 14 Q. All right. What did the organization of 15 the Applied Sciences look like. First of all, you 16 were at the Queeny plant? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. Is that correct? 19 A. Yes, that's correct. 20 Q. Okay. And this is Applied Sciences for 21 the Organic Chemical Division? 22 A. Correct, the Applied Sciences is a 23 support group for the organic chemistry -- Organic 24 Division chemists and engineers. 25 Q. All right. Give me, if you can, an 47 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055295 1 organizational picture of the Applied Sciences 2 department. 3 A. Okay. Dr. Keller was the head of the 4 Applied Sciences. Then -- and he was, I would 5 say, nominally a manager. 6 Under Dr. Keller were a number of group 7 leaders. And it would be divided somewhat 8 according to discipline, and some analytical 9 chemistry discipline and somewhat according to who 10 had extra resources and that kind of thing. 11 But there was a spectroscopy group, 12 which had to do with atomic absorption 13 spectroscopy. Had to do with other infrared 14 spectroscopy. Emission spectroscopy. 15 I also did, now that you've got me 16 talking about it, I also did a lot of emissions 17 spectroscopy for measuring metals, which is a 18 different technique than atomic absorption, but an 19 instrument that they already had that they needed 20 somebody who knew how to operate it. 21 Then there would be -- they had a gas 22 chromatography group that did nothing but gas 23 chromatography analysis based on that particular 24 technique. Then they had a physical chemistry 25 group. And then I believe they also had a process 48 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055296 1 chemistry group. All of these were analytical. 2 For example, the process chemistry group 3 developed analytical techniques for monitoring 4 processes. The spectroscopy group developed 5 techniques for monitoring anything that could be 6 monitored by a spectroscopic technique. The gas 7 chromatography group monitored anything that could 8 be, was amenable to, gas chromatography. 9 Is that enough? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. All right. 12 Q. Who was working in the gas 13 chromatography group when you - 14 A. Gosh, what was his name? 15 Q. -- when you started? 16 A. Ed, Dr. Ed Emery was the group leader of 17 the gas chromatography group. 18 Q. How many gas chromatographs did they 19 have when you started? 20 A. My guess is more than one and less than 21 maybe 15? 22 Q. More than one but less than 15? 23 A. In our operation. They could have had 24 as many -- they certainly had one, I can establish 25 that without a problem. Whether or not they had 49 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055297 seven, 11, 14 or 16, I don't know. But they could have had as many as, say, somewhere, they might have had 20 at the maximum at that group. I'm trying to think. I think it was less than that at that time. Q. Well, 5How big are these machines? A. About this big; a box about this size (indicating). Let's see, let me relate that, three by three by three. Q. Three feet by 3 feet? A. By 3 feet would be maximum dimensions. Q. Well how big was the gas chromatography section? I mean, were they in the warehouse or a were they in an office? A. I don't understand your question. Because I can multiply 20 times three cubic feet and not come up with a warehouse. Q. Well, this room, for example, appears to me to be about, what, 18 by 15, maybe? A. I could have four chromatographs down this side of the table, four chromatographs down this side of the table, four chromatographs on that wall and four chromatographs on that wall. Q. So four lines of chromatographs in a room this size? 50 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) 1 A. Right. And if I were designing a 2 laboratory that is probably the way I would kind 3 of set it up. So you could have as many in this 4 room, without making it too difficult for people 5 to work, on probably as many as 16 chromatographs 6 in this room. 7 Q. Was the gas chromatograph section as big 8 as this room? 9 A. And then some. The Queeny, the building 10 on South Second Street associated with the Queeny 11 Plant, was an eight-story building that had 12 been -- that was used for research and development 13 and those kind of things. And we had I think one, 14 close to one full floor of that building just for 15 what we did. 16 Q. The only reason I'm asking you all this 17 is there's a big difference in my mind between one 18 and 15; and, and I know it has been a long time 19 ago but -20 A. Okay, let me clarify that for you. 21 Q. Yeah. 22 A. What I meant by that. I was trying to 23 answer your question. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. On a probability basis, whether or not 51 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055299 1 we had 15 or 16 chromatographs there's a probably 2 a 50/50 chance that I might be right or I might be 3 wrong. Okay? But on one, I was damned sure we 4 had one. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. And my guess -- and the other thing is 7 that we had instruments that we lent out to 8 various operations and might be shipped to other 9 parts of the company that were designed 10 specifically by those folks to monitor processes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. So we had other instruments out in the 13 field, too. And then we had instruments that were 14 not necessarily used because they were so specific 15 they had been used for a project in the past but 16 not in the future. 17 So my guess is, is they could have had 18 at least 20 chromatographs there. And that 19 they -- I am trying to remember how many people 20 they had in that group at that time. I think 21 there were probably on the order of four or five 22 people in the group, and so that's a reasonable 23 number of instruments for them. 24 Q. All right. And then the spectroscopy 25 department, who was in charge of that? 52 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055300 A. Dr. Martin Dietrich was in charge of that. Q. And then did you work under him in your initial assignment? A. Yes. Q. Would you, is spectroscopy something that that you could or would use to analyze PCBs? A. Yes. Q. Did, when you started, did they use spectroscopy to analyze PCBs? A. No . Q. So the spectroscopy group when you started did not use that technology to analyze PCBs? A. Correct. Yes. Q. Did they analyze PCBs using the gas chromatography when you started? A. Yes. Q. What kind of analysis did they do using the gas chromatography? A. It would be an analysis that would be referred to as production quality control Q. Okay. What does that mean? A. It means that you take materials that are at or near 100% PCBs in this particular 53 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2 WATER PCB-SD0000055301 1 instance which you have chosen and you analyze 2 them to see what percentage they are PCBs, is it 3 99, 98, 97? And you might even go to the extent 4 of fingerprinting them to see that they look the 5 same from a gas chromatographic viewpoint -- which 6 is just simply a way of looking at something -7 that they look the same from lot to lot to lot. 8 And so you would be analyzing samples that were 9 taken from production. 10 Q. Okay. So these would be basically 11 Aroclor, pure Aroclor samples that they would be 12 running through to make sure that they met 13 production quality control standards? 14 A. That's correct. The only addition I 15 would add to what you said is I would really call 16 it "neat" rather than "pure." 17 Q. All right. 18 A. Because Aroclors are mixtures to begin 19 with. 20 Q. That's right. And I have seen in your 21 writing that you draw that important distinction 22 quite a bit. 23 When you say "neat," you mean what? 24 A. Completely PCBs. 25 Q. All right. 54 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055302 A. That's the one extreme. Now it can be, you know, 50% or something like that, but it's pretty well neat Q. And when you use the term "pure," you would use that only in reference to one of the PCB isomers? A. That would be the purest way to use it. Q. All right. Okay. A. If you forgive the pun. Q. Okay. Now there was no -- well, when did you first get drawn into the PCB analysis area? A. I think that occurred probably mid '68. Q. And what do you recall about that assignment? A. Well, I don't, I wouldn't really call it an assignment at that time. Q. Okay. I guess what -- A. I would call it really more of a discussion of what people were saying or thought they might be saying and things of that sort. Q. Okay. Well, 5That's basically I'm just trying to get started. What's the first thing you remember about the discussions relating to PCBs that got 55 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2 WATER PCB-SD0000055303 1 you involved in the PCB analysis situation? 2 A. Apparently there had been discussions by 3 Bob Keller, Dr. Keller, with other people within 4 the functional fluids group or whatever; I had no 5 privy to those, didn't even know about them. 6 But at the point in time I became 7 involved, I was aware of the fact we had received 8 a telex, which was a fast way of communicating 9 back in that, in that century. And in that telex 10 we had been notified by our operations in 11 Britain -- in Ruabon, I think specifically, 12 although I'm not sure -- that there were some 13 reports by some scientists in Sweden that they 14 were finding polychlorinated biphenols in the 15 environment. 16 And that's the first appraisal I 17 remember of the discussions and the initiation of 18 discussions on that particular topic. 19 Q. And that would have been in a 20 conversation between you and Dr. Keller, you 21 believe? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And that would have been in mid '68 - 24 A. That's my -- 25 Q. --to the best of your recollection? 56 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055304 1 A. -- that's my recollection, yes. 2 Q. Okay. Do you remember whether it was 3 the beginning of mid '68 or the, towards the - 4 what's the best month in '68 that you can? 5 A. Well, mid '68 means like -6 Q. June? 7 A. -- maybe June, right. Whether or not 8 it's the beginning or the end or maybe even over 9 into July, I don't know. But it certainly wasn't 10 in the beginning of '68. It was, as I said, mid, 11 around mid '68. 12 Q. All right. And what Dr. Keller told you 13 is, is that they had received -- by "they," I mean 14 Monsanto -- had received a telex from a group in? 15 A. From who? 16 Q. From Monsanto in Britain? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. That somebody in Sweden had found what? 19 A. The report was -- 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. -- is that a research group in Sweden 22 had found polychlorinated biphenols in a place 23 where it was surprising. 24 Q. What else do you remember about that 25 initial conversation? 57 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055305 1 A. I think the general consensus was at 2 that point in time that the people that were 3 reviewing this and looking at it were curious as 4 to what it meant, and nobody was really sure what 5 it meant at that point in time. It was just an 6 observation that we had been appraised of and we 7 were being asked, "Does this mean anything to you 8 guys ?" 9 Q. Had, had Dr. Keller done any work on it 10 at that point or was he asking you to begin the 11 work? 12 A. Dr. Keller was a manager and as such he 13 didn't work at the bench. So he may have done 14 what he did as work on it. 15 Q. Which is assign it to you? 16 A. Reading, reading about it, determining 17 who was the best individual present in the people 18 he had available to him to do it for whatever 19 reason. Who might be the best, most up-to-date 20 person who could make sense out of something of 21 this sort? That kind of thing. So that was his 22 work. 23 And I'm sure that at that point in time 24 he was being asked, "Well, you're an analytical 25 chemist, what does it mean to find polychlorinated 58 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055306 1 biphenols," I believe it was in eagle feathers, to 2 be real truthful with you, from a museum, if I 3 remember now. 4 And, you know, it was like, "Well, I 5 don't know but I guess we can kind of figure it 6 out. We need more information." 7 Q. Okay. And at that time he asked you to 8 try to gather more information? 9 A. From a technical viewpoint, I believe 10 that was kind of the beginning of the 11 investigation of the issues and what was going on 12 and what was associated with it to establish, 13 "Gee, what does this mean?" 14 Q. Okay. Were you basically in charge of 15 finding out what it meant from that point or at 16 that point? 17 A. Certainly not. I was part of a team. 18 Q. Who was in charge? 19 A. I don't -- I would -- my guess at this 20 point in time would be that it was probably the 21 directors of the functional fluid, the director of 22 the functional fluid product line. 23 Q. Who was that? 24 A. At that time, that was Dr. Bill Richard. 25 And he reported to I believe Howard Bergen. 59 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055307 1 Q. All right. Your initial meeting and 2 conversation was only with Dr. Keller, or was it 3 with more than -4 A. That's my recollection. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. And I was simply being asked, "Does this 7 mean anything to you?" I mean, "What do you think 8 of this?" 9 Q. What did you do after that? 10 A. I said, "I don't know what I think of 11 it. " 12 But it's like any investigation; when 13 you are asked a question and you don't have an 14 answer, you begin to look for the answer. And I 15 was asked to look for the answer from an 16 analytical viewpoint. 17 Q. Were you given the telex? 18 A. I could have been given a copy of it; I 19 doubt if I had the original. And I don't, I don't 20 really recall. It wouldn't matter. I mean, I 21 would be appraised of what it meant one way or the 22 other. 23 Q. You don't recall whether you saw the -24 A. No, I saw the original. 25 Q. I'm sorry? 60 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055308 1 A. I saw, I saw a copy of the original. 2 Now whether or not it was given to me, I don't 3 know. 4 Q. At that time you are saying at this very 5 first meeting you believe you saw the original? 6 A. I believe he may have had that in his 7 possession but I don't, I don't know at that very 8 first meeting. 9 But what I said was I saw a copy of it. 10 Now exactly when, I don't know that. That's a 11 different question. 12 Q. All right. Well -13 A. If you want to ask that, ask it and I'll 14 answer it. 15 Q. Okay. Let me ask that. Do you remember 16 when you saw the telex? 17 A. Some time probably shortly after that 18 but I don't remember specifically. 19 Q. Did you see any other information 20 relating to that subject matter, i.e., the 21 discovery of this substance in Sweden? 22 A. Subsequently I saw information; but it 23 was not immediately forthcoming because there had 24 been no publications, this was all word-of-mouth. 25 As I recall it, it was a, something that 61 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055309 1 was said in passing at a technical meeting in 2 Sweden or some European country at which one of 3 our people was attending, perhaps in the audience. 4 And that caught their ear as to, "Hum, that's 5 interesting, what's that doing there?" 6 And then the question was asked, you 7 know, about polychlorinated biphenols -- which, of 8 course, as you know, I think, is not the proper 9 way to refer to PCBs. 10 Q. Yeah. Just so the court reporter, 11 whenever you say "bi feen ol" you're talking about 12 O-L and when we say "bi feen uls" we're talking 13 about at Y-L? 14 A. I make an attempt to be demonstrative -15 Q. Yes? 16 A. -- in my pronunciation so that she can 17 differentiate or the court reporter can 18 differentiate. It is a subtle difference -19 Q. Yes, I understand that. 20 A. -- but it's a big deal. 21 Q. It's important to you scientists? 22 A. No, important to everybody because the 23 molecular structure is a totally different 24 material. 25 Q. All right. And I just want to be clear 62 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055310 1 on what your understanding at the time you got 2 your assignment was, is that, "There had been this 3 comment that's all we know, it's this substance 4 biphenol is what everybody is talking about and 5 can you guys figure out what's going on?" 6 A. Okay. And I don't think it was what 7 everybody was talking about. I think it was one 8 report -9 Q. All right. 10 A. -- at a technical meeting by a technical 11 person that was heard by one of our 12 representatives at the meeting who in turn began 13 to ask, "Gee, anybody know anything about this?" 14 And I wasn't given an assignment at that 15 time. I was asked if I had any knowledge of that 16 particular compound and why it would be present in 17 eagle feathers or something of that sort? 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. And to be real truthful, I didn't have 20 any idea whatsoever. 21 Q. Now -22 A. And in fact, as you pointed out kind of, 23 the technical term being used to describe the 24 molecule was incorrect. 25 Q. But that was the term that was given to 63 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055311 1 you? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. In your meeting? 4 A. That's correct. So I thought we were 5 dealing with polychlorinated biphenols, which is a 6 different constituent than biphenyls. So I didn't 7 even know the answer to that question. 8 Q. And that's all the information that you 9 were given at the beginning of your hunt 10 basically? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Okay. Then what did you do? 13 A. I believe shortly after -- well I want 14 about -- 15 Q. Let me ask, let me ask. You indicate 16 you were not given an assignment - 17 A. That's right. 18 Q. -- at that point? 19 A. No. I was going to say I went about my 20 regular functions -21 Q. Okay. 22 A. -- at that point time. 23 Q. That's just the first time you heard 24 about this - 25 A. That's right. 64 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055312 1 Q. -- PCB situation? 2 A. That's the first time I heard about the 3 polychlorinated biphenols situation. 4 Q. All right. When is the next time you 5 heard about either polychlorinated biphenols or 6 polychlorinated biphenyls? 7 A. I don't recall exactly. Certainly after 8 that occurrence. Probably not very long after 9 that it was clarified they did not mean phenols, 10 P-H-E-N-O-L-S, they meant biphenyls, which of 11 course was more significant to us because it was 12 something we manufactured. 13 Q. About how, about how long after that 14 initial meeting did you all get that information? 15 A. I, I can't, I don't have a good 16 recollection of that. 17 Q. Okay. Is it on the order of weeks? Is 18 it on the order of months? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Weeks or months? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. My suspicion is is that that type of 24 information came back fairly quickly. But you 25 asked me if I recollect specifically and, I'm 65 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055313 1 sorry, I do not. 2 Q. Okay. So a few weeks or months later, 3 whenever -4 A. I, Let me clarify that. 5 Q. Yeah. 6 A. You just jumped over to months, and I 7 would say a few weeks. 8 Q. Okay. So a few -9 A. Let's deal with it in a reasonable 10 perspective. 11 Q. So a few weeks later, was it in the fall 12 of '68? 13 A. We're talking about, no, it was, it was, 14 that kind of thing was probably clarified fairly 15 quickly. Whether or not the information was 16 passed along to me fairly quickly, you know, I 17 wasn't assigned to anything at this point. I was 18 simply asked a question. 19 Q. I understand. And I'm just trying to 20 find out when you heard that it was biphenyls 21 instead of biphenols? 22 A. Probably shortly after that. Whether or 23 not I was asked to do anything about that one way 24 or the other except to clarify my understanding of 25 what the question was, probably not. 66 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055314 1 I guess you need -- from my viewpoint, 2 you need to understand the perspective. The 3 perspective was that something had been found or 4 recorded as found at very minute levels in eagle 5 feathers from eagles in a museum by an analytical 6 chemist who was doing pesticide analysis in 7 samples. 8 And it was like, "Okay, what's the 9 significance of that?" 10 The significance was that it was a 11 marble out of place. And whether it had -- how it 12 got there, through contamination by the guy in the 13 laboratory, through inappropriate interpretation 14 of his data, through any of those kinds of things? 15 None of these things were answered yet. 16 He hadn't published the information; he 17 had only spoken about it. It hadn't been peer 18 reviewed; it hadn't been disseminated; nobody 19 understood how he did it. The only thing we 20 understood was that they had detected this 21 molecule which is similar to the ones we 22 manufactured in eagle feathers -- eagle feather. 23 And that was all. 24 So at that point in time my guess is is 25 that Keller and the folks in Europe said, "Hey, we 67 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055315 1 need details. Are you sure its phenols?" 2 Q. I'm trying to pin down so that we can 3 walk through this in an orderly fashion when each 4 of these steps occurred from your perspective. 5 Okay? 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. And my understanding is, is that that 8 information that you just gave me is the 9 information that was given to you in the first 10 conversation; you didn't have an assignment yet; 11 this was just a discussion. Is that fair? 12 A. Yeah. If I can use an example, it's 13 like determining when you got pregnant. Until you 14 are pregnant for a while and have determined you 15 are really pregnant, only then can you figure out 16 when conception occurred. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. So that's the kind of question you're 19 asking. So if I'm appearing evasive, I'm not 20 doing it intentionally -21 Q. I understand. I'm just trying to get 22 your best recollection; and your best recollection 23 when you got that information is in the summer of 24 1968? 25 A. Mid 1968. 68 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055316 1 Q. Mid 1968? Okay. 2 A. That's correct, that's absolutely 3 correct. 4 Q. And then after, some period of time 5 after that; we don't know how long, although you 6 say it was relatively shortly. So your best 7 estimate would be weeks instead of months, I 8 assume now? 9 MR. PRAUSE: Objection to the form of 10 the question. 11 A. Okay, my understanding of the 12 question -- 13 Q. What's your best estimate, what's your 14 best estimate as to how long it was until you 15 heard again about biphenols or biphenyls in 16 Sweden? 17 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 18 question. 19 A. I have to allow enough time -- and I'm 20 thinking aloud to myself -- for the people to pass 21 the question back to Europe; for the people in 22 Europe to assess the questions and try to provide 23 the answer; to provide the answer back. 24 And you know how a telex is, it is not 25 like an e-mail or a phone call or anything of the 69 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055317 1 sort. My assumption is, is that the response came 2 back in days. Now whether or not at that point in 3 time the powers that be thought that it was 4 significant enough to come to me, a bench chemist, 5 to get my input on that information, they may have 6 discussed it among themselves for a while. 7 But I certainly was apprised in a 8 reasonable time frame. That's why I objected a 9 little bit to you saying months. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Because that really is demonstratively 12 long. 13 Q. Okay. And could -14 A. A couple weeks probably. 15 Q. All right. Your best recollection or 16 best estimate is that it was a couple of weeks? 17 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 18 question. 19 A. In that time range. 20 Q. All right. 21 A. That would be, yes, that's acceptable. 22 That's an acceptable -23 Q. All right. 24 A. -- resolution based on my best 25 recollection. 70 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055318 1 Q. When you got that information, did you 2 get any additional information or was it only the 3 clarification that we're talking about biphenyls 4 and not biphenols? 5 A. I think the initial clarification was 6 simply that. I think ultimately, since the 7 gentleman had mentioned that he had analyzed 8 something and determined it to be there, the 9 ultimate question was, "Gee, how did you analyze 10 it?" 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. And, "What did you really find? Will 13 you share those results? Are you going to publish 14 them soon?" 15 Q. Okay. I'm trying to walk through this 16 in order. 17 A. I understand that. 18 Q. So I just want to clarify. This may 19 be -- you may have answered the question but I 20 want to clarify. 21 In this second conversation now when the 22 specific chemical is clarified, were you given any 23 additional information and is that when you were 24 given your assignment? 25 A. I think at that point in time I might 71 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055319 1 have been appraised of the fact that the original 2 designation was incorrect. And furthermore, I 3 might have been asked, "Well, do you know anything 4 about measuring pesticides and what kind of ways 5 they do that and that kind of thing?" 6 And since I wasn't a pesticide chemist 7 and things of that sort, I probably would have 8 said no. And at that point in time, I probably 9 would have thought, "Well, hum, I don't know that. 10 Maybe I ought to find something out about it." 11 So I might have gone to the library and 12 started looking at the way those people did their 13 analysis, start to figure out what's going on so I 14 could begin to answer my superiors' questions, 15 which seemed to be important to them. 16 Q. All right. Is it your best recollection 17 that you were not specifically asked to do that, 18 that you just did that kind of as an eager young 19 Ph.D.? 20 A. I think that's, that's part of the 21 answer. I think that's half of the answer. The 22 other half is, is that I'm an analytical chemist; 23 my job is to analyze things for things. My job is 24 to understand the techniques and tools that are 25 used by analytical chemists to do this. 72 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055320 1 Soren Jensen was an analytical chemist, 2 he was analyzing something for something. Doing 3 the same thing I was doing. So it was legitimate 4 that they would come to me and ask me what I knew 5 about it. 6 Q. Okay. But what I'm asking you -- and I 7 understand that and I appreciate that information. 8 What I'm trying to find out is, at some point you 9 got an assignment - 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. --to do some work. And I'm trying to 12 figure out when you got that assignment. Was it 13 in this second conversation that we have just 14 talked about, or was it after you had done some 15 homework on your own that you later got an 16 official assignment to follow it up? 17 A. The question is "an official 18 assignment." 19 Q. I'm sorry? 20 A. The question is "an official 21 assignment." I'm responsible for answers in my 22 area of expertise. And if I'm there to answer 23 questions relative to analytical chemistry, if 24 somebody asks me a question I can't answer, that's 25 an assignment. 73 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055321 1 Q. Okay. What were you asked? 2 A. Actually, I don't know what you mean by 3 "assignment." I think it would help me if you 4 clarify what you mean by "assignment." 5 Q. Okay. Here's what I, let me tell you 6 what I understand and you tell me if it is 7 accurate. This may answer the whole question. 8 What I understand is, is that in this 9 second conversation the specific chemical was 10 clarified and you were asked, "Do you know 11 anything about analyzing pesticides and so forth?" 12 And you said, "No, I don't really know 13 anything about that." 14 I didn't hear you say, "Dr. Tucker, go 15 find out about this." And I'm just asking, were 16 you told to go find out about it at that point, or 17 were you just asked questions that you didn't have 18 the answer to and -19 A. I would believe about at or about that 20 time they began to say, "Well, you know, look into 21 that and see how they do it." 22 Q. All right. 23 A. And so 5If that's your definition of the 24 assignment, which is my understanding of it now, 25 then I would say at or about that time or shortly 74 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055322 1 thereafter it was evident that they had told me to 2 go look into this and see how we do it so we can 3 understand what's going on. 4 Q. Okay. But you don't have a specific 5 recollection of getting an official assignment 6 by -- from Dr. Keller saying, "I want you, 7 Dr. Tucker, to go investigate and find out what's 8 going on here"? 9 A. Okay. We were all assigned to answering 10 that question. We were all trying to figure it 11 out. 12 If you are saying he said to me, "Gee, I 13 want you to go find out how pesticide chemists 14 analyze samples for PCBs," no, he didn't, he 15 didn't ask me that question at that point in time. 16 These guys weren't analyzing samples for 17 PCBs, they were analyzing them for pesticides. 18 And so I was asked to become familiar about that 19 time with the techniques they employed. 20 Q. Okay. And is that as close as you can 21 get to what you were asked to do? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. What did you begin to do? 24 A. I 5Reviewed the literature to see what 25 kind of techniques that were employed by these 75 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055323 1 folks. And determined next whether or not we had 2 any experience within the company, within my scope 3 of the company, with these kinds of techniques so 4 I could ask somebody how they worked -5 Q. Okay. 6 A. -- things of that sort. 7 Q. Were you provided any literature or were 8 you tasked with going and gathering the 9 literature? 10 A. As far as the techniques used by the 11 folks, it was more I was tasked to go look it up. 12 I mean, it's, there was a lot of publications out 13 there by people who were measuring pesticides in, 14 in environmental samples. 15 Q. What did you find? 16 A. Well, I found out that they used, for 17 these organic molecules, they used gas 18 chromatography and that the primary detective that 19 they employed for this kind of thing was an 20 electron capture detector, referred to as an 21 electron capture detector. 22 Q. Did Monsanto have one of those? 23 A. It just so happened that in the organic 24 chromatography section of the Applied Sciences 25 they did have a detector on the shelf. 76 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055324 1 Q. Okay. Had it been employed yet? 2 A. Not really. They had bought the 3 detector to begin evaluation of it -- not, 4 certainly, for this particular subject, but 5 because the electron capture detector was a new 6 kind of way of detecting things. It was extremely 7 sensitive and fairly specific, and it was a new 8 kind of detector for chromatography systems. 9 And so 5Part of our charge was to keep 10 abreast of new technologies and to acquire those 11 and to see how they could help the company do its 12 job better. And so they had acquired one. 13 When I asked around and I talked to Ed 14 Emery and the folks they had, "Gee, we've got one 15 of those. We've got an electronic capture 16 detector." 17 "And have you used it for anything?" 18 "Well, not really." 19 Q. Then what did you do? 20 A. Specifically, I don't remember exactly 21 what I did. But I know what I -- what would be 22 seem logical to me, and I have developed hundreds 23 of methods. 24 I went about figure out how to get the 25 wherewithal to do what they were doing. 77 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055325 1 Q. By "they," are you talking about the 2 other people who were reporting finding this 3 chemical? 4 A. The only person that we had had report 5 PCBs at that time was Widmark; and that was an 6 unconfirmed observation, verbal, as a matter of 7 fact -8 Q. All right. 9 A. -- that got garbled in the telex. But 10 there were a lot of people around analyzing 11 environmental samples for DDT and for chlorinated 12 pesticides and they were using gas chromatography 13 and they were using electronic capture detectors. 14 And so that's what I began to become familiar 15 with. 16 There's more than just having the gas 17 chromatograph and the detector. I mean, the 18 material's out there in something; and you've got 19 to isolate the material, clean it up, present it 20 in the proper form to get it through the 21 instrument, through the instrument and then to the 22 detector. 23 And you need to understand how an 24 electronic capture detector works and how a gas 25 chromatograph works. And that's when I began the 78 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055326 1 process. 2 It was just like with the atomic 3 absorption. It was a new technology for them; and 4 I basically was at that point in time starting to 5 do the same thing I did with the atomic absorption 6 with the gas chromatograph and the electron 7 capture detector. 8 Q. All right. And about, does that take us 9 into the fall of '68 now? 10 A. It is getting, yes. 11 Q. All right. And when did you first start 12 working with the electron capture and the gas 13 chromatograph together? 14 A. I would say probably the end of third, 15 beginning of fourth quarter, 1968. Something in 16 that range. 17 Q. All right. Now do you recall the first 18 samples that you tried to analyze yourself? 19 A. Yes . 20 Q. Okay. Tell me about that? 21 A. Okay. I think we require an 22 understanding between you and I as to what a 23 sample is. 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. And so it's probably better if you tell 79 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055327 1 me what you think a sample is and then I answer 2 the question relative to that. 3 Q. Well, in relation to what you had heard 4 about these other guys were doing -- which is, 5 finding PCBs in an eagle feather from a museum, 6 which is all you knew -- my understanding is 7 that's all you knew that had been done, did you go 8 get an eagle feather and in a fall of '68 and try 9 to sample it? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay. What's the first thing that you 12 tried to sample? 13 A. Those would be -14 Q. I'm sorry, to analyze, let's say. 15 A. Yeah. The first, when are you 16 developing a technique, you don't work with 17 unknowns because you don't know what the answer 18 is. So what you want to do is you want to develop 19 a technique that gives you a proper answer. 20 So the only way you can determine a 21 technique that gives you a proper answer is if you 22 have known materials that give you known 23 responses; they're called standards. So the first 24 thing you work with once you get the system set 25 up, and it's a complex system, is standards. You 80 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055328 1 make sure that the system that you are working 2 with gives you the right answers with the 3 standards. And when it gives you the right 4 answers with the standard, then you figure, "Well, 5 you know, at least the system is working 6 properly." 7 So if I deliver the standard, the 8 constituent in question, of a known amount to the 9 instrument in a proper manner and it goes through 10 the chromatograph and then goes through the 11 detector and the detector detects it and tells me 12 if I put in 10, I got 10 out -- or nine, depending 13 upon the recovery -- then I can say, "Well, you 14 know, it's working." 15 Q. Okay. So did you start off -- I'm just 16 trying to figure out what you started off 17 sampling. Did you put a few drops of Aroclor in 18 some water and shake it up and run that through 19 your? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. Well, why don't you tell me what 22 you did? Then I won't try to -23 A. I will. You have asked the question and 24 I will answer the question best of my ability. 25 The first thing we did after we set up 81 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055329 1 the instrument and made sure that it was 2 functioning properly is we took the manufacturer's 3 standards solutions -- which weren't PCBs, they 4 were pesticides. 5 We took the manufacturer's standard 6 solutions and we ran those through the instrument 7 and made sure that it gave us the appropriate 8 chromatogram, which is, you know, a trace of how 9 it goes through the column in the instrument and 10 separated out and then goes through the detector. 11 It tells you its retention time. 12 It also gives you a peak that has a nice 13 shape associated with it. If it's a nice shape, 14 then it means it is getting through the instrument 15 without being degraded. If the peak is up on this 16 side or up on that side, then something is 17 happening and the thing is not working right. 18 You also may have a known response that 19 you expect in terms of the detector. And so you 20 look at the response you get versus what the 21 manufacturer says it should be; if they agree, you 22 say, "Okay, now at least I can do what the 23 manufacturer did. His instrument meets his 24 specifications." That would be the first thing 25 that's done. 82 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055330 1 Now the pesticides or the compounds that 2 were provided were undoubtedly an hexane, which is 3 a solvent very amenable to gas chromatography. 4 And that's where it starts. 5 And so if you want to refer to that as a 6 sample, I would refer to it as a standard, that 7 would be probably the first thing that was done, 8 to check the specifications of the instrument to 9 meet the manufacturer's specifications, and that's 10 what I did. 11 Q. Okay. About how long did that take, do 12 you think? 13 A. Well, with the -- first of all, the 14 actual instrument that we used, the FM402 15 biomedical chromatograph, had to be order. That, 16 if you rush them, it can be four weeks; but more 17 than likely it is usually quoted six to eight 18 weeks to get the instrument in. 19 During that time, you order the gasses 20 that you need and make sure you setup's there and 21 everything. And then you get the instrument in 22 and set it up and that kind of thing. So it could 23 be anywhere from four to eight weeks before you 24 are even prepared to but that first sample through 25 and make sure the instrument is operating 83 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055331 1 properly. 2 Q. Okay. So after you got the machine set 3 up and you're starting to run these samples, I'm 4 wondering how long that process took? 5 A. Okay. I thought that's what we were 6 talking about. And we said that we ordered the -7 oh, you mean once I had the instrument in house? 8 Q. Yeah. Once you had the instrument in 9 house, I'm just asking how long a period -10 A. Probably a couple weeks. 11 Q. Okay. Then what did you do? 12 A. Well, once I had established that the 13 instrument worked according to the manufacturer's 14 specifications, then I decided that we needed to 15 develop the wherewithal of taking a sample, like 16 eagle feathers, and treating it in such a manner 17 that we isolated what we were after and carried it 18 through the cleanup steps and then got it to the 19 right concentration and things of that sort and in 20 the right solvent medium and then injected it into 21 the instrument. 22 So we then had to develop the sample 23 preparation techniques. Okay. The simplest 24 matrix to deal with that these folks were dealing 25 with was water. And so water is undoubtedly where 84 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055332 1 we started. 2 Q. All right. 3 A. And so I had to figure out a way to put 4 a known amount of a PCB into water; run the water 5 through a proposed sample preparation scheme; and 6 then run what I got at the end there, which would 7 be just like the standard only it wasn't a 8 standard this time, through the instrument and 9 have it tell me that I had recovered everything 10 that I had put into the water. 11 That's fairly complicated. Sound simple 12 but you have to -- well, you don't have to 13 understand, but it's helpful if you do -- that 14 PCBs aren't soluble in water - 15 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, "PCBs" what? 16 MR. WRIGHT: Aren't soluable in water. 17 A. Are not real soluable in water. It's 18 not like taking weighing out a portion of table 19 salt and throwing it in water and dissolving it up 20 in a known amount of water, and then you have got 21 a standard solution. 22 You have a known amount of water that 23 you measured and you hae a known amount of 24 soluable chloride in there, which is salt. And 25 you've got a standard. 85 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055333 1 So you can take a aliquot of that and 2 weigh the solids and you're probably going to come 3 up with 100% of the sodium chloride on a weight 4 basis. 5 With the PCB routine, you had to take 6 and introduce the PCB into the water; and you had 7 to worry about it plating out, it liking the 8 vessel -- the walls of the vessel that you had the 9 water in -- better than it liked the water because 10 its hydrophobic. And you had to make sure there 11 was -- those were equilibrated. And then you had 12 to be sure that you take a representative sample 13 out in a manner that you're, again, the walls that 14 you take the sample out with, the pipette, the 15 glass pipette, doesn't pull the PCBs out and make 16 them disappear. 17 And so you have to work your way through 18 all these kind of things. 19 And eventually, it's a reiterative 20 process; it's a step-by-step process; you can't 21 jump, you can't go from 1 to 25, you have got to 22 gol, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Because about the time you 23 skip a step, the number 12 kills it and so then 24 you have to back up and start over again. 25 So you go through this process and you 86 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055334 1 establish that the sample preparation technique 2 works and that you are able to, one, prepare a 3 solution that has with a known quantity of PCBs in 4 it. Two, you are able to carry it through your 5 sample preparation, your extraction, your cleanup, 6 whatever you did. And, three, you get it into a 7 format that you can deliver it to the instrument 8 such that you can take your response on the other 9 end and calculate what's back here. 10 And if it agrees with what you put in, 11 you are happy. And then you can say, "Well, okay, 12 you know, nice, clean, distilled water that I have 13 spiked with PCBs, I can analyze that." 14 Now with PCBs the situation becomes more 15 complicated because there's 209 isomers. Okay? 16 So it's not just a matter of having sodium 17 chloride, which is a single thing, and isolating 18 that; it's a matter of making sure that whatever 19 you do between when you put it in the water and 20 you take it through the instrument doesn't change 21 the ratio of those isomers of the 209 components 22 in that particular PCB. Because if it does, then 23 it don't look like your standard. 24 Q. And so you were involved in working all 25 of that out in the fall of 1968? 87 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055335 CO CO 1 A. Correct. 2 MR. PRAUSE: Before we transition to the 3 next phase, I would like to request a short 4 break. 5 MR. WRIGHT: Let me, let me ask about 6 three or four questions. 7 MR. PRAUSE: Sure. I just wanted to 8 give you a heads up. 9 MR. WRIGHT: Because I think I am about 10 to a transition point. 11 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 12 BY MR. WRIGHT: 13 Q. During this period, did you visit any of 14 the laboratories that were doing pesticide 15 analysis to see how they were doing it? 16 A. I'm sure I did. 17 Q. Well, which ones did you visit? 18 A. I don't recall specifically. But there 19 was no -- whether I did during that specific time, 20 I'm not really sure. I visited a lot of 21 laboratories that did pesticide analysis. 22 Q. Eventually? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. Okay. But I'm asking: Before you 25 started running samples through your machine, did Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055336 1 you visit any laboratories? And if so, which 2 laboratories did you visit? 3 A. All right. I would have to say that I 4 probably did not during the specific period of 5 time that you are referring to. 6 Q. All right. 7 A. I do know that Keller and some folks 8 visited laboratories. 9 Q. Do you know which laboratories 10 Dr. Keller visited? 11 A. Yeah, they went to Europe and visited 12 Soren Jensen and Gunther Widmark in Sweden. 13 Q. Do you know when they - 14 A. I don't know exactly when. But I do 15 remember that I had to get shots to go there and 16 then I didn't get to go. 17 Q. Why didn't you go? 18 A. Well, they already had enough people 19 going to get the information they needed and they 20 wanted me back developing methods and establishing 21 them in our laboratory. So it was a priority 22 about who does what. 23 Q. Did they come back and give you any 24 instruction? 25 A. Yes. They came back and gave me 89 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055337 1 information. 2 Q. What information did they give you? 3 A. They brought back prepublication copies 4 of things and stuff like that. I don't remember 5 specifically what it was; but they brought back 6 all the information that they could get, both 7 verbally and written, with regard to what was 8 going on over there. 9 Q. Well, did they bring back information 10 relating to the way that, that Dr. Jensen and 11 Dr. Widmark had prepared their samples? 12 A. My recollection is, is that at some 13 point, whether it was this specific point or not, 14 we did obtain an unpublished prepublication copy 15 of what they had done and how they had done it. 16 Q. And I'm just asking, was it before you 17 started inventing your process? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Okay. Now do you know if Dr. Keller 20 actually visited the laboratory or simply spoke 21 with Drs. Widmark and Jensen? 22 A. I don't know if they specifically 23 visited the laboratory. My assumption is if he 24 went and talked to them he went over there and 25 talked to them at the laboratory because that's 90 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055338 1 where they were. But I don't know that they did. 2 Q. You don't know that? 3 A. No, I don't know that. 4 Q. What was the first laboratory that you 5 visited doing this type of analysis other than 6 your own? 7 A. I think the first laboratory I visited 8 was probably in Crevecouer, it was in our 9 Agricultural Division. 10 Q. I'm sorry? 11 A. I think the first laboratory, one of the 12 first laboratories, that I would have gone to 13 would be out at our Crevecouer location in 14 St. Louis that -- at the Crevecouer location -15 that the agricultural folks familiar with 16 agricultural type samples and things of that sort. 17 And I talked with those people. I don't recall 18 directly. 19 But you're asking what lab that might 20 have some knowledge of those kinds of things did I 21 go to during that period of time? And I would 22 have used my internal resources first -23 Q. Well, what I -24 A. -- because they were the most readily 25 available to me. 91 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055339 1 Q. Okay. Okay. I'm afraid that's not 2 responsive to the question I asked. 3 The question that I'm asking is, is what 4 lab that was doing this electron capture gas 5 chromatography analysis did you go to? What was 6 the first lab other than your own that was doing 7 that kind of analysis that you went to? 8 A. I can give you a list of laboratories 9 that I know I have been to. Whether or not I can 10 tell you the very first one at this point in time, 11 we're talking -- I would like to understand that 12 we're talking about 1968 and that this is 2000. 13 Q. Well, I don't know when it was, whether 14 it was '68 or '69? 15 A. It could have been '69, too. But do you 16 agree we're talking about '68 or '69? 17 Q. The very first time that you went to a 18 lab other than your own that was doing gas 19 chromatograph electron capture. And I understand 20 that it was a long time ago. 21 A. I understand the question; and I was 22 attempting to tell you that I can tell you the 23 laboratories I had visited. I cannot specifically 24 tell you the first one because I cannot recollect 25 it because it is just a long time ago. 92 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055340 1 Q. Okay. And I'm just asking - 2 A. I think I have answered the question. 3 Q. Okay. You cannot recall the first 4 laboratory other than your own that was doing that 5 kind of analysis that you went to? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. And you can't recall when it was? 8 A. That's correct. You mean in terms of 9 the specific day or month or year? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. I think I can get the year probably. 12 Q. What's your best estimate of the year? 13 A. Probably in '69 would be my guess -14 Q. All right. 15 A. -- would be when it happened. 16 Q. And can you tell me approximately how 17 many other labs that were doing that kind of 18 analysis you visited in, say, 1969? 19 A. No, not specifically. 20 Q. Last question, then we'll take our 21 break. 22 Tell me the labs that you recall that 23 you visited, beginning in 1969, that were doing 24 the same type of analysis that we have been 25 talking about, the gas chromatography electron 93 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055341 1 capture. 2 A. The reason I'm smiling is, is that that 3 is a very general, open-ended question. I have 4 been in the business 33 years and I have visited 5 thousands of laboratories. 6 Q. The only reason I ask -7 A. They all do that kind of work, electron 8 capture work. 9 Q. The only reason I asked you that 10 question is because you told me that's the 11 question you could answer -12 A. That's right. 13 Q. -- that's the labs you went to -14 A. I can tell you the labs that I have 15 visited. 16 Q. Okay. Tell me, let me, let me close the 17 end of the question as best I can. Even if you 18 don't remember the first lab you visited, can you 19 tell me some of the first labs -20 A. Sure. 21 Q. -- that you visited? 22 A. I can tell you the labs that I visited 23 during that period of time or close to it. There 24 was WARF, Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation, I 25 visited Dr. Francis Coon and the folks there. 94 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055342 1 There was a lab down in Paxtaunt; there was a lab 2 in Escambia; there was a lab in Duluth, Minnesota. 3 There were -- I think, and I had correspondence 4 with a number of places. But there were a lot of 5 them. 6 But I don't, and that's strange, but I 7 don't really recall the very first one I went to. 8 I'm sure a review of the record could establish 9 that, but I don't recall it. But those are some 10 of the labs that I visited; and those were the 11 kind of labs that were primary interested in doing 12 that kind of work in those days. They were 13 primarily government labs and 14 university-associated laboratories. 15 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Thank you. We can 16 take a break now. 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 18 12:19. 19 (Lunch recess taken 12:19 p.m. to 1:18 20 p.m. ) 21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is tape two of 22 the deposition of Dr. E. Scott Tucker, III. 23 We're on the record at 1:10 -- excuse me, 24 1:18. 25 BY MR. WRIGHT: 95 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055343 1 Q. Okay. Dr. Tucker, I think when we left 2 off was early 1969 and you were in the process of 3 working out the analytical method for analyzing 4 PCBs using that new equipment. And what was that 5 called again, the equipment? 6 A. Oh, you're asking me? I thought you 7 were -8 Q. Yes. 9 A. -- asking the reporter. I'm sorry. 10 Q. That's okay. 11 A. Forgive me for daydreaming. The 12 equipment, the new piece of instrumentation that 13 we ordered because the other one that we had 14 wasn't suitable for environmental work was an F&M 15 Model 402 biomedical gas chromatograph. 16 Q. Do you know how long that equipment had 17 been on the market? 18 A. The, are you talking about electron 19 capture detectors, are you talking about gas 20 chromatographs, or are you talking about that 21 particular model? 22 Q. Well, let's start with that particular 23 model. 24 A. Not very long. 25 Q. Okay. How about gas chromatographs? 96 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055344 1 A. Gas chromatography as in one form or the 2 other, certainly to a much less sophisticated 3 extent than it exists today even, has been around 4 a long time. 5 Q. I guess some quantification. For 6 example, was it used in the '50s? 7 A. It was originally called gas vapor 8 chromatography. G, G -- I can't remember what it 9 was. But it's like anything. You know, there is 10 a Model T and then there's a Lexus Q45. They are 11 both cars and cars have been around for a long 12 time but there is a big difference between the 13 Lexus and the Model T. 14 So gas chromatography had been around 15 for a long period of time for uses; and it is a 16 concept was available, but certainly it went 17 through an evolutionary process like everything 18 else. 19 Q. Had electron capture technology been 20 around for a while? 21 A. Not as long as gas chromatography, I 22 don't think. Now you had the fundamental concept 23 of electron capture has been around since the 24 world was invented; but the concept as we're using 25 it here in terms of analytical chemistry -- 97 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055345 1 Q. The equipment is what I'm asking you 2 about. 3 A. And not the phenomenon? 4 Q. Right. 5 A. Okay. Now you're talking about electron 6 capture detectors specifically for gas 7 chromatography? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. Have they be around a long time? Is 10 that your question? 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. Define "long" for me, please. 13 Q. Rather than do that, why don't you just 14 tell me when they came out? 15 A. Let's say that they were in existence 16 when I was at Monsanto, obviously; I ordered one. 17 Q. How long before you ordered one had they 18 been in existence? 19 A. And used for analysis of environmental 20 samples? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. Probably, gosh, not much more than, 23 let's see, that was 19-, we're talking 1968, 24 correct? So that would be, that's not too much, 25 not too much earlier than that. Several years 98 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055346 1 maybe. 2 Q. Let me ask you, this is one of the 3 documents that I was provided this morning that 4 you reviewed. We'll mark it as Exhibit No. 3. 5 (Deposition Exhibit No. 3 marked for 6 identification.) 7 Q. Can you tell me what that is? 8 A. (Witness peruses document.) 9 Q. It appears to be an excerpt from a 10 report of some sort? 11 A. Did you want me to tell you what I 12 thought it was? 13 Q. Yes. 14 A. Okay, let me look at it and see if I can 15 decide based on what you have shown me here what 16 it is. 17 It looks like Pages 15 and 16 taken from 18 a periodic report that was produced by the 19 Functional Fluids Group in terms of projects they 20 were working on, and specifically electrical 21 fluids. 22 Q. Okay. What was the Functional Fluids 23 Group? 24 A. The Functional Fluids Group was a group 25 of engineers and chemists that made and formulated 99 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055347 1 functional fluids for use in, in industry. 2 Q. Was it a subdivision of the Organic 3 Division? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And so the Functional Fluids Division 6 was the division that was responsible for 7 Aroclors ? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Do you recall who was the head of the 10 Functional Fluids Division at that time? 11 A. You mean the Director of Research or his 12 boss ? 13 Q. Well, tell me both. 14 A. I think Howard S. Bergen was higher up; 15 and then I think Bill Richard, Dr. Bill Richard, 16 reported to Howard. And Richard was the Director 17 of Research and Development for the Functional 18 Fluids Group. And I think Bergen was like a 19 Business Director or Vice President or something 20 like that. 21 Q. Okay. And did they, did the Functional 22 Fluids Group -- and I assume all groups at 23 Monsanto -- prepare periodic reports? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And those reports were prepared for the 100 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055348 1 management, I assume? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Would that have been the kind of report 4 that would have gone to the Executive Committee? 5 A. You have to define what "Executive 6 Committee" means for me. 7 This would be a report that would be 8 certainly written by the folks who were being paid 9 from the job numbers associated with functional 10 fluids and budgeted and that kind of thing. And 11 this report would probably go to Bill Richard and 12 Bill Richard would be responsible for the whole 13 thing. And then it would probably go to Howard 14 Bergen. 15 A higher level than that, I don't know 16 about the distribution; and in fact, there's no 17 distribution evident on this. 18 Q. Well, the problem is it is a partial -19 A. That's correct, as I stated earlier. 20 Q. -- excerpt. 21 A. So my answer to your question -- and 22 please rephrase your question again and I'll 23 answer it directly. 24 Q. Well, my question is a little bit of a 25 general question. 101 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055349 1 A. I meant the question that you asked. I 2 didn't -- could? 3 Q. The question, what I'm trying to find 4 out is, is who those, who reports like that went 5 to? Okay? 6 A. And I have given you all the knowledge 7 that I have relative to that subject. 8 Q. Okay. As far as you know, a report from 9 the Functional Fluids Division like that would 10 have gone to Mr. Richard; and it may have gone 11 higher, but you don't know? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. Okay. You heard me use the term 14 "Executive Committee." Is that the first time you 15 ever heard that term used in relation to Monsanto? 16 A. It may not be, no. It may not be. But 17 the Executive Committee means the Executive 18 Committee and -19 Q. My understanding of the way Monsanto was 20 organized at the time, and please correct me if 21 I'm wrong, is that Monsanto had a committee that 22 met approximately weekly that was called different 23 things at different times. Sometimes it was 24 called the CDC committee; I can't remember what 25 those initials stand for. Sometimes the CAC. But 102 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055350 1 it was a committee made up of upper level 2 management that was responsible for making the 3 important decisions for the entire company. 4 Did you ever hear of a committee like 5 that during your time at Monsanto? 6 A. Well, Monsanto had 56,000 employees 7 worldwide and I'm certain they had a number of 8 committees that called themselves executive 9 committees. Does that particular term that you 10 brought forward to me mean something specific to 11 me outside of the words themselves? No. 12 Q. Okay. You are not aware of a committee 13 that met in St. Louis on approximately a weekly 14 basis that was responsible for the upper level 15 management decisions of the company? 16 A. You know, I think it's proper to keep in 17 context that I was a senior research analytical 18 chemist working at a bench level in the company. 19 That I was a technical person. And that while I'm 20 sure these things may or may not have existed 21 based on what you are telling me and knowledge 22 that I had directly or indirectly, it wasn't my 23 focus. 24 Whether they met weekly, or whether they 25 were made up of this, or whether they are made up 103 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055351 1 of that, or whether they did this or they did 2 that, that wasn't my venue. 3 Q. Dr. Tucker, I'm not asking you that 4 right now. All I'm asking you is, is are you 5 generally familiar that during your time at 6 Monsanto there was a high-level management 7 committee that went by different names during 8 different periods of time but was made up of 9 high-level managers that met on approximately a 10 weekly basis? 11 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 12 question. 13 Q. You can answer the question, sir. 14 A. The question from my viewpoint is so 15 general and not clear enough that I couldn't 16 answer it if I wanted to. 17 Q. All right. 18 A. And I'm happy to try to answer questions 19 that I understand and that are focused enough to 20 have an answer to. 21 Q. Okay. Did you ever hear a gentleman 22 named Monte Throhdal? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What was Mr. Throhdal's position? 25 A. I don't know his exact title. 104 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055352 1 Q. What was his general title? 2 A. Well, he seemed to be everybody's boss, 3 sort of. I don't, I don't know Monte Throhdal. 4 Q. Well, Mr. Throhdal gave a deposition in 5 a case and he described a committee that he was on 6 from I believe 1966 to when he retired in maybe 7 '84. And he said, quote, "There's always been an 8 Executive Committee of the Board. And an 9 Executive Committee of the board was simply doing 10 the Board's work at the time the Board was not at 11 session. It was called variously different 12 things. There was -- it was the Corporate 13 Development Committee; it was sometimes called the 14 Corporate Administrative Committee; it was 15 sometimes called the Corporate Management 16 Committee." 17 And my question to you, sir, is simply, 18 is today the first time that you have ever heard 19 any of those terms in relation to the concept of a 20 upper level committee of managers and executives 21 at Monsanto? 22 A. No, it is not the first time I have 23 heard what you have gone through. 24 Q. All right. Were reports like the report 25 you have in your hand forwarded to this 105 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055353 1 committee -- whether we're calling it the 2 Executive Committee or the Corporate Development 3 Committee or the Corporate Management Committee or 4 the Corporate Administrative Committee - 5 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 6 question. 7 A. I would have to answer that I do not 8 know. I'm sure Mr. Throhdal could answer that 9 question for you -10 Q. All right. 11 A. -- because he was on the committee, I 12 was not. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. So to be very frank with you, I tried to 15 explain to you earlier that I was a senior 16 research chemist at the bench level at Monsanto. 17 At that time, I had joined Monsanto, what did we 18 say, in 1967, latter part? And I doubt if I had 19 been around long enough to got to that high a 20 level in a company that large. 21 So are you asking me if I have direct 22 knowledge that this report was passed on to a 23 committee that you refer to as the Executive 24 Committee? I do not have that knowledge and I 25 would have to answer, I don't know. 106 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055354 1 Q. Okay. That wasn't my question, but I 2 appreciate your answer. 3 A. Well, then I am obviously having 4 problems understanding -5 Q. Yes. 6 A. -- your question. 7 Q. We are. My question was, generally do 8 you have knowledge of such a committee? We have 9 now establish that yes, you have knowledge that 10 there was such a committee at Monsanto during the 11 time you were there, correct? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. All right. My second question is: Were 14 reports like the one that you have there in your 15 hand, reports of divisions of the company, passed 16 to the Executive Committee? That's the question. 17 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 18 question. 19 A. That question has been asked and 20 answered and I'll answer it again. 21 I don't have any direct knowledge of the 22 subject that you are talking about. I do not 23 know, did I ever witness or see any indications 24 that these reports were passed forward to them. 25 I don't doubt that what you are telling 107 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055355 1 me may be true. But on the other hand, you're 2 asking if I have direct knowledge and can testify 3 to to the fact that it was done, and I can't. 4 Q. Well, with all due respect, sir, I'm not 5 asking you whether you saw the report get handed 6 to a member of the Executive Committee. I'm just 7 asking you, during the years that you were at 8 Monsanto, were you made aware that reports like 9 the one you have in your hand were forwarded to 10 the Executive Committee? 11 A. No. 12 Q. I mean - 13 A. No. 14 Q. -- Dr. Keller ever tell you, "Look, 15 guys, we need to write this up, we need to send it 16 to the Executive Committee, they're going to be 17 considering this next week"? 18 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 19 question. 20 Q. Anything, or anything like that? 21 A. Absolutely not. He would say, "This 22 report is for Bill Richard." And what Bill 23 Richard did with it outside of discussing it with 24 us is what Bill Richard did with it. So 25 absolutely not. 108 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055356 1 Q. Did you ever at your time at Monsanto 2 ever make a presentation to the Executive 3 Committee? 4 A. I think at some point in time I was 5 asked to make a presentation that would fit the 6 description of the Executive Committee that you 7 have been telling me about. 8 Q. Okay. Do you remember when that was? 9 A. No. I'm sure it's documented but I 10 don't remember specifically. 11 Q. It related to PCBs, obviously? 12 A. I would assume that it did, yes. 13 Q. Did you only make one such presentation 14 to the Executive Committee? 15 A. That would be, that would be my guess, 16 yeah. 17 Q. Is it your testimony, Dr. Tucker, that 18 it wasn't a memorable experience to someone in 19 your position to make a presentation to the Board 20 of the corporation? 21 A. It is my testimony that the period of 22 time that we are talking about is 32 or 33 years 23 ago and I have been around long enough to have 24 many memorable occasions in my career. And while 25 I'm sure that that was a memorable occasion, I'm 109 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055357 1 also quite sure it was part of my job and that I 2 was asked to do it and at the level I was at in 3 Monsanto I probably wasn't asked very frequently 4 to do it. And that I probably wouldn't even know 5 who that committee was or what their objective 6 was. 7 I would probably just simply know that I 8 had to go and discuss what I was doing because 9 somebody like Bill Richard had asked me to because 10 they didn't speak the technical language well 11 enough and they wanted to show that they wanted to 12 present something where I was at or something. 13 Q. So it's your -14 A. So I don't doubt it. 15 Q. So it is your testimony when you gave 16 your presentation to the Executive Committee you 17 didn't know you were giving your presentation to 18 the Executive Committee? 19 A. I don't recall it as being, as their 20 saying to me, "Okay, you're giving a presentation 21 to the Executive Committee," or something of that 22 sort. 23 You yourself called it several different 24 things, so. But that's fine. 25 Q. Well I'm asking you any of those 110 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055358 1 things -2 A. And I'm answering your questions -3 Q. Yeah. 4 A. -- and I think I have done that, so we 5 can continue. 6 Q. Do you have a recollection of giving a 7 presentation on PCBs? 8 Well, you have already indicated that 9 you have a recollection that you probably gave 10 such a presentation at some point to a committee 11 like the committee that I described? 12 A. I recall being asked to give -- at one 13 time being asked to give a report on the status of 14 what I was doing to rather high level people in 15 Monsanto. But to be real truthful with you, I'm a 16 senior research scientist and a chemist and, you 17 know, that's fine, that was good for those folks 18 and that's what they did. I did what I did. 19 Q. And you don't remember when that was? 20 A. Not specifically, no. 21 Q. Do you remember what the presentation 22 that you gave was about? 23 A. I think we have already established that 24 it was probably about PCBs. 25 Q. Do you remember it in any more detail? Ill Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055359 1 A. Again, I'm going to, I'm going to try to 2 make this clear and I'll continue to say it again 3 and again. And that is, is that we're talking 4 about a subject that was 32 years ago; and you're 5 asking me very specific dates and times and things 6 of that sort, and I'm trying to recollect those to 7 the best of my ability and I think I'm doing that. 8 But I'll tell you very frankly, in 32 9 years ago, I don't know what I did almost on any 10 specific date specifically. And that's the way it 11 is. 12 Q. Okay. Let me object, nonresponsive. 13 My question is simply, do you recall 14 anything more about your presentation to the 15 Executive Committee than the general subject 16 matters of PCBs? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you remember anything more about when 19 this presentation was other than it was some time 20 during your tenure at Monsanto? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Now could I have Exhibit No. 3 again for 23 a moment? 24 A. Certainly. 25 Q. There's a project described in Exhibit 112 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055360 1 No. 3; and just for the record, what is that 2 proj ect? 3 A. The pages given me it is stated on 4 Page 15 at the top, "Project." And then it says, 5 "Electrical Fluids - Part V - Air and Water 6 Pollution Control." 7 Q. And there's a date on that excerpt, is 8 there not? 9 A. There is a, in the upper right-hand 10 corner there's something that says "FLU," which I 11 assume means fluids, "-030 Part V." And then in 12 parentheses there's "(7/68)," which I would assume 13 is July of 1968. 14 Q. Okay. Look at the next page. 15 A. That's Page 16? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. And is there a date down at the bottom? 19 A. Yes. It says July 18, 1968. 20 Q. Okay. And it, this project, air and 21 water pollution control, the first objective 22 indicates, "Follow developments in analytical 23 chemistry leading to more sensitive and specific 24 methods for identifying Aroclors in our 25 environment. 113 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055361 1 "2. Keep in touch with laboratories 2 doing research on environmental contamination by 3 Aroclors including university, FDA, USDA, Fish and 4 Wildlife Service. 5 "3. Study present methods for disposal 6 of Aroclors and if necessary develop safer ones. 7 "4. Assess possible toxic effects on 8 humans." 9 Did I read the objectives correctly? 10 A. Yes, you did. 11 Q. Okay. And then for the justification -12 I'm going to paraphrase -- it indicates that, 13 well, the first sentence, "During studies of the 14 fate of chlorinated organics insecticides, 15 biochemists have isolated unknown chlorinated 16 hydrocarbons which they have tentatively 17 identified as chlorinated biphenyls. These have 18 been shown to be present in some fish, birds and 19 wild animals in certain areas at concentrations of 20 the parts per million range." 21 And then it talks about public health 22 authorities being interested and that Monsanto may 23 need to cooperate in developing disposal 24 procedures and so forth in order to avoid 25 restrictive legislation. Correct? 114 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055362 1 A. Is your paraphrasing correct? 2 Q. Yes. 3 A. It's, it's, yeah, it's fine. I mean, 4 your paraphrasing is probably as long as the 5 statement. 6 Q. Okay. Well then, so that we have a nice 7 clear record, let me ask you, Dr. Tucker, to read 8 the justification section that follows the 9 objectives section that we just discussed. 10 A. Okay. Be happy to do that. 11 "Justification: During studies of the 12 fate of chlorinated organic insecticides 13 biochemists have isolated unknown chlorinated 14 hydrocarbons which have been tentatively 15 identified as chlorinated biphenyls. These have 16 been shown to be present in some fish, birds and 17 wild animals from certain areas at concentrations 18 in the part per million range. Public health 19 authorities have therefore felt that it was 20 necessary to determine whether or not 21 environmental contamination by chlorinated 22 biphenyls is a hazard to human life or health. It 23 is vital that we cooperate in these studies so 24 that we can be sure that the results are valid and 25 know that we can assess the impact of the findings 115 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055363 1 of the on the Aroclor business. We may need to 2 cooperate with -- we may need to cooperate in 3 developing disposal procedures which will not 4 result in harmful contamination in order to avoid 5 restrictive legislation." 6 Q. Then would you read the status section? 7 A. "Status: At present, we are collecting 8 all available information on this problem. The 9 medical department is following the toxicity -10 toxicology and will start a test program at 11 Calandra Labs to determine biological effects of 12 trace Aroclor. The research will evaluate the 13 validity of published analytical identification. 14 Samples of Aroclor, and in some cases of pure 15 chlorinated biphenyl isomers are being made 16 available to government and university 17 laboratories working on this problem for use as 18 calibration standards." 19 Q. And then the next section is entitled 20 "Plans." Correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And there are some initials next to the 23 responsibilities? 24 A. Uh-huh. 25 Q. Correct? 116 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055364 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. The first item is what, sir? 3 A. And I assume you're talking to the first 4 item under "Job"? 5 Q. Right. 6 A. And it is, "Assess validity of 7 analytical methods used by workers in this field." 8 Q. And who is tasked to do that? 9 A. The persons tasked with that 10 responsibility are Dr. Robert Keller and Dr. Scott 11 Tucker. 12 Q. Your initials ST, standing for Scott 13 Tucker, correct? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. And then a target date of March 1969? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. Is the handwriting on this page yours? 18 A. It looks to be my handwriting, yes. 19 Q. Can you -- 20 A. My copy is not very clear, but I would 21 say based on the clarity that I have here that it 22 probably is my handwriting. 23 Q. My copy is not very clear, either. 24 My question is, there's some handwritten 25 modifications to the first job. It says "Assess 117 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055365 1 validity of, " and it says, "analytical methods" in 2 the typewritten text. Can you tell what is 3 handwritten? 4 A. No, I can't. Can you? And I'm not 5 being, that's not challenge, I can't read it. 6 Q. I can read the last two words, I can't 7 read the first. It says "other workers" and I 8 can't read what the first word is. 9 A. I can recognize that it could be "of the 10 workers" or "other workers," either one. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. And I'm honestly not sure what that - 13 well, I'm not sure what that first word is either. 14 Q. Okay. And that appears to have gotten 15 the handwritten 2 and a circle next to it, 16 correct? 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. And then the one right below it says, 19 "Collect information on all work being done by 20 others in this field." And that got a handwritten 21 circle and a 1 next to it, correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And you're one of the three people 24 tasked with that, correct? 25 A. Yes. 118 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055366 1 Q. The others being WRR, which is 2 Mr. Richard? 3 A. That would refer to Dr. Richard, yes, 4 that's correct, Bill Richard. 5 Q. EW, Elmer Wheeler? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. He's in the medical department? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And yourself, Scott Tucker? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. I assume that it was your job to get the 12 information being done by other analytical 13 chemists ? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And it was Elmer Wheeler's job to get 16 the information relating to, of a medical nature? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And Mr. Richard's job to basically 19 oversee both of those tasks? 20 A. And gather information from the people 21 he knew in the business, too. I mean, we all had, 22 were tasked with the same thing at different 23 levels and in different areas. 24 Q. What information do you recall 25 Mr. Richard ever gathering? 119 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2' WATER PCB-SD0000055367 1 A. In terms of functional fluids? 2 Q. Yes. 3 A. Certainly he would know -- and I don't 4 know that he knew, but my guess is, is that he 5 knew who they were being sold to and what kind of 6 work those people were doing on the fluids and 7 things of that sort so... 8 And I know that, for example, Bill 9 Richard went to Europe and talked with Widmark and 10 Jensen. He had a Ph.D. in chemistry, he wasn't 11 not technical. 12 Q. And that's the meeting we already talked 13 about and the information that you got back from 14 that meeting we already talked about it? 15 A. That's correct, we talked about that 16 earlier. 17 Q. Now I'm going to skip the third task, 18 since you're not, "Determine present disposal 19 methods for Aroclors," you're not tasked with 20 that. 21 The fourth job is, "Toxicology Review 22 with government agencies, research institutes and 23 then start outside test program." And you are one 24 of the people tasked with that, correct? 25 A. That's correct. 120 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055368 Q. And then you have numbered, "Review with government agencies, research institutes," you have numbered that 3, correct? A. Uh-huh. Q. And then "Start outside test program," you have numbered that 4, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And then you hand-wrote in number 5, which says, "Source." Do you recall what you were referring to when you did that? A. When I did what? Q. When you wrote "Source" as job number 5. A. Yeah, I think there was, at that point in time, there was significant questions as to what was the source of the PCBs that had been seen by the few people who had seen them. Q. Okay. And so that was one of the jobs that you were assigned? A. It was one of the jobs that I was assigned to contribute to. It wasn't specifically assigned to me, as you have pointed out. Q. Well you were the only analytical chemist involved in this project, correct? A. That's correct. And that means that I would be charged with responsibility for the 121 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2 WATER PCB-SD0000055369 1 analytical chemists associated with each of these 2 items. 3 Q. And what that means specifically with 4 job number 1, you were the only person that was in 5 charge of -- well, you and your boss, Dr. Keller, 6 who we have talked about his contributions -- were 7 assigned with assessing the validity of the 8 analytical methods used by the workers in the 9 field, correct? 10 A. That's correct. By the way, Dr. Keller 11 did have a Ph.D. in analytical chemistry. 12 Q. I understand. You have given me the 13 information that he gave you, though, correct? 14 A. Uh-huh. 15 Q. Can you answer out loud? 16 A. Yes. If we are referring to an earlier 17 question? 18 Q. Yes, I'm referring to the discussion 19 this morning. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. I asked you to give me all of the 22 information that he gave you about this project. 23 Do you recall that? 24 A. To the point that we pursued it, yes. 25 Q. Yes. 122 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055370 1 A. And to the point where you had asked me 2 if what he had told me about the polychlorinated 3 biphenyls and the text and things of that sort and 4 his visit to Europe. 5 Q. Right We've gone through the spring of 6 '69, I thought? 7 A. Sure. I thought I got the feeling we 8 were talking about something else for some reason. 9 Q. No. You told me everything that he gave 10 to you through the spring of 69, correct? If not, 11 I would like to know what else he told you. 12 A. I believe I have relayed to you in 13 answers to your earlier questions the answers to 14 those questions. 15 Q. Okay. That's what I thought. 16 A. If you are going somewhere we haven't 17 been, you know, just let me know and I'll try to 18 answer your question. 19 Q. No. I'm asking you to tell me what 20 other information Dr. Keller passed on to you 21 about this project other than the information that 22 we have already talked about? 23 MR. PRAUSE: When? 24 Q. Through the spring of 1969. 25 A. Yeah. That's fine. 123 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055371 1 Yes, I have related that to you. 2 Q. Now with respect to job number, the 3 second job the page, which you have marked as job 4 number 1, "Collect information on all work being 5 done by others in this field, " we have talked 6 about your job was to collect all of the 7 analytical chemistry being done by all of the 8 other analytical chemists in the field, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And you were the only person who had 11 that duty other than perhaps Mr. Richard through 12 his contacts in the business? 13 A. And his contacts in Europe an his 14 contacts with government people and things of that 15 sort. 16 My prime responsibility was to be a 17 focus for the collection and evaluation of that 18 information. If any of these other members that 19 had responsibilities associated with it obtained 20 information of that sort, they passed it to me. 21 Q. Okay. And my question right now 22 specifically is, is did Mr. Richard through the 23 spring of 1969 pass any information to you about 24 analytical chemistry? 25 A. He could have. 124 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055372 1 Q. Do you remember any? 2 A. Not specifically. 3 Q. Do you remember any generally? 4 A. If -- all I can say relative to that 5 question, yes, I remember generally. 6 Q. Okay. What do you remember generally 7 that he passed to you? 8 A. That Bill was tasked with the fact that 9 if he received any prepublications or any 10 information relative to analytical chemistry that 11 he should pass it on to me to be evaluated. So my 12 assumption is whatever he received under that 13 period of time he passed on to me. What it is 14 specifically, I do not recollect. 15 Q. Well, and my question is: Do you 16 recollect that he passed anything on to you? 17 A. Oh, yeah. 18 Q. You just don't recall what it was or 19 what it related? 20 A. Very specific, yes. I do -- now wait a 21 minute. 22 You asked me if I recall specifically 23 what it was. The answer to that question has been 24 answered no. 25 What it related to is what we're 125 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055373 1 discussing. It related to analytical chemistry 2 and any information he obtained from whatever 3 source, and he would pass that on to me to be 4 evaluated. So that's what it related to. 5 Q. Then you have no better recollection 6 than that -7 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form. 8 Q. -- about anything Mr. Richard passed on 9 to you through the spring of 1969? 10 MR. PRAUSE: Argumentative. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just 13 trying to ask you -14 A. I didn't say you are arguing with me. 15 Q. I understand. 16 A. I'm on the record here and I did not say 17 that. 18 Q. I understand? 19 A. Yes, I believe is the answer to your 20 question. 21 Q. And just so that the record is clear, 22 you don't have any better recollection of anything 23 that Mr. Richard passed on to you through the 24 spring of 1969 other than what we just talked 25 about? 126 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055374 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then the other tasks that you were 3 involved in that -- the one that you have numbered 4 3, "Review with government agencies and research 5 institutes," you were the only analytical chemist 6 who had any responsibility for that? 7 A. No, I, I believe that if we are talking 8 about the fourth item in the job list that 9 Dr. Keller's name or his initials, at least, are 10 there, indicating he had responsibilities 11 associated with that. And he was an analytical 12 chemist -13 Q. Okay. Well -- 14 A. -- as we discovered earlier. 15 Q. -- I understand that. But I thought, 16 other than what we have talked about already with 17 regard to Dr. Keller, you were the person at 18 Monsanto who was in charge and who did what you 19 have numbered as item number 3, i.e., "Review with 20 government agencies, research institutes 21 relating," and I'm adding now, relating to 22 analytical chemistry issues. 23 A. Dr. Keller had contacts with government 24 agencies, he had contacts with other laboratories. 25 He had contacts with other researchers. He was an 127 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055375 1 analytical chemist; he knew other analytical 2 chemists. 3 So it stands to reason that he also had 4 contacts with those people; and that he would be 5 concerned about the same things that I was; and 6 that he would receive information of that sort; 7 and when he did, he would pass it on to me. 8 Q. Let me object, nonresponsive. 9 I understand that, that you're assuming 10 that he passed on information on to you? My 11 question to you is -12 A. No, I'm not assuming that he passed 13 information on to me. I recollect that 14 information was passed on. That's the way it 15 worked. What specifically, I don't recollect. 16 Q. What information did Dr. Keller pass on 17 to you relating to any review with government 18 agencies or research institutes relating to 19 analytical chemistry? 20 A. I'm sure we established earlier that he 21 passed on information from Dr. Widmark -22 Q. Right. So -23 A. -- so that's an example. 24 THE REPORTER: Gentlemen, on at a time, 25 please. 128 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055376 1 Q. Other than what we already talked about, 2 you don't recall any other information from 3 Dr. Keller relating to this job number 3? 4 A. Not specifically. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. What about generally? 7 Q. Other than what we have already talked 8 about? 9 A. If, in general, if Dr. Keller obtained 10 information relative to analytical techniques that 11 were being used or information from any of his 12 contacts, he would pass it on to me. In that 13 context, I assume we have already talked about 14 that; so that's what you're talking about I 15 already talked about? 16 Q. Let me object, nonresponsive. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. You have indicated that you don't have 19 any specific recollection of any information that 20 Dr. Keller passed on to you? 21 A. No more specific than the fact that it 22 had to do with the subject that we're talking 23 about. 24 Q. Do you have any general recollection of 25 any information that he passed on to you relating 129 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055377 1 to any reviews with government agencies or 2 research institutes? 3 A. In general, he was tasked to share that 4 information with me. What it is specifically, I 5 don't recollect. 6 Q. Then item number 4, "Start outside test 7 program." What did that relate to? 8 A. My recollection at this point is that 9 referred to the industrial biotests exposure of 10 animals for toxicology purposes. 11 Q. And you were involved in the analytical 12 chemistry of that project? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Correct? Was anybody else or were you 15 in charge of the analytical chemistry part of that 16 industrial biotest program? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And then 5, "Determining the source of 19 the PCBs," were you the one that was primarily in 20 charge of that task? 21 A. Within my area of responsibility, yes. 22 Q. Now and as far as you are aware, this 23 is, this July 18, 1968, is the first time this 24 project was initiated? 25 A. No. 130 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055378 1 Q. I'm sorry? 2 A. You asked me if I had direct knowledge 3 that this document indicates that this was when 4 this project was started? I have no direct 5 knowledge of what this document says. 6 Q. I'm saying -- let me object, not 7 responsive. 8 I'm saying as far as you know, as far as 9 Dr. Tucker knows, this is when the project was 10 initiated, July 18, 1968? 11 A. The project in question is what we read 12 earlier -13 Q. Air and water pollution -14 A. -- Electrical Fluids - Part IV - Air and 15 Water Pollution Control. 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. No. 18 Q. Are you aware that it was continuing 19 before that -20 A. I am -21 Q. --or that it was existing before that? 22 A. You asked me if I had any specific 23 recollection that it couldn't have had, there 24 couldn't have been a report like this before. 25 Q. No, that's not -- 131 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055379 1 A. I haven't the faintest idea. 2 Q. No, sir. Let me object, nonresponsive. 3 That's not my question. 4 A. I don't understand your question. 5 Q. My question is: To the best of your 6 knowledge, this is the first time that you were 7 made aware of this project, Electrical Fluids - 8 Part VI - Air and Water Pollution Control? 9 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 10 question. 11 A. That's a compound question and we need 12 to break it down into parts so I can answer the 13 parts or not. 14 Q. No, the question is real simple. It is: 15 To the best of your knowledge, this is the first 16 time that you became aware of this project? I've 17 rephrased it to make it a little bit easier, I 18 think. 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. When had you become aware of the 21 project before July 18, 1968? 22 A. The initial information was at or about 23 that time. But aspects and portions of this - 24 for example, what are polychlorinated biphenols 25 and what are they doing in the environment and 132 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055380 1 does that measurement measure that thing and that 2 sort -- those questions were asked at or about 3 this time and they could have been asked before. 4 So you're asking me to categorically say based on 5 my knowledge I know that they were not asked 6 before that. 7 And I think we discussed that aspects 8 associated with these things were asked before 9 that. So that's why I'm having difficulty giving 10 you the answer you apparently want. 11 Q. Let me object, nonresponsive. 12 You were not aware of this project 13 existing before about the time that the document 14 indicates. Is that fair? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. All right. And after this period of 17 time -- after this time, July of 1968, you, is 18 when you began work on this, the jobs that we have 19 discussed, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And we have already discussed to some 22 extent what you did, particularly in relation to 23 beginning to develop an analytical method for 24 evaluating PCBs. Have we already discussed 25 everything you did regarding collecting 133 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055381 1 information on all the work being done by others 2 in the field? 3 A. Yes. To both of those questions. 4 Q. Okay. Have we discussed everything you 5 did with regard to reviewing with government 6 agencies and research institutes? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. I don't believe we have discussed what 9 you did with regard to starting an outside test 10 program. So would you tell me what you did with 11 regard to the job that you numbered as number 4, 12 "Start outside test program." 13 A. Yes. As we had covered earlier, I 14 think, there had been statements with regard to 15 evaluating in more detail toxicology information 16 associated with PCBs. The information up to that 17 point in time was certainly everything everybody 18 wanted; but with the advent of them potentially 19 being places where people were surprised, they 20 decided they wanted to learn more about the 21 information. 22 In general, toxicological studies do not 23 involve tissue residue analysis or any effort to 24 establish actual feed concentrations or to do any 25 sort of a material balance in the biological 134 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055382 1 systems that are being exposed to the food that's 2 intentionally contaminated with what is being 3 tested at known concentrations. 4 In this particular instance, since the 5 materials were thought to be found as residues in 6 biological samples, eagle feathers, it was felt 7 that the toxicological program should include 8 provisions for the collection of tissues and 9 fluids and organs and things of that sort from the 10 animals that were exposed to the Aroclors for 11 toxicity purposes. 12 In order to make sure that these studies 13 had the appropriate number of animals and that 14 could generate enough material for us to analyze 15 and those kinds of logistics, I was included to 16 provide what I would need or the group I was 17 working with would need to do the analysis and to 18 determine the distribution of these materials in 19 the biological systems; and in some essences, 20 essence the fate of the materials -- what happened 21 to them as they went through the biological 22 system. 23 I hope that answered your question. 24 Q. It did. When did you begin that? 25 A. My guess would be on or about July '68. 135 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055383 1 Q. Do you recall when the industrial 2 biotest program was begun? 3 A. Not specifically. 4 Q. When did you determine that -- well, how 5 did you assess the validity of the analytical 6 methods used by workers in the field? 7 A. Well, first of all, the analytical 8 methods being used by workers in the field were 9 not designed for PCBs, they were designed for 10 pesticides. It was just an ancillary event that 11 made a mutant begin to think or discover that some 12 of the peaks that they were seeing could be due to 13 something else besides what they were specifically 14 looking for. 15 And the way they did that was they took 16 a portion of an extract and used a technique to 17 qualitatively identify the molecular structure of 18 the component -- not necessarily how much was 19 there or where it came from or any of that kind of 20 thing -- but, "Gee, what was this peak that 21 doesn't fit any of the pesticides or things we're 22 looking for?" 23 And in doing that, they identified the 24 molecule as being a higher chlorinated, 25 specifically higher chlorinated group of PCBs. 136 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055384 1 So the methods that were in the 2 literature were not specifically designed for PCBs 3 and it wasn't known whether they worked in a 4 quantitative fashion. It wasn't known that they 5 weren't subject to a multitude of interferences. 6 It wasn't known that they could be used to 7 actually quantitate the measurement or decide 8 which PCBs were present, or any of those kinds of 9 things. 10 So in order to establish the validity of 11 those procedures and in some instances modify them 12 so they would work for the analysis of PCBs if 13 they happened to be present and determine that, we 14 had to look at what they were doing; we had to see 15 how they did it; and we had to take PCBs through 16 that methodology and where necessary modify it so 17 that it worked. 18 Q. When did you determine that you agreed 19 that it was in fact PCBs that were being found? 20 Or did you ever doubt it? Let me ask that 21 question first. 22 A. Oh, certainly. Absolutely. It was, it 23 was, I think everybody doubted it. Nobody 24 understood any of the transfer mechanisms or any 25 of that kind of stuff. It just wasn't the 137 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055385 1 state-of-the-art at that time. Everybody had the 2 same questions as to where could they potentially 3 be coming from? 4 And as it turns out, they could and did 5 come from multiple sources. 6 Q. So you are saying that in the late 7 summer of 1968 everybody doubted that it was in 8 fact PCBs that were being found? 9 A. Well late 1968, I think we're talking 10 about one verbal response from a scientist in 11 Sweden who found PCBs in eagle feathers. 12 Q. That was your understanding of what - 13 A. No, it was my knowledge. 14 Q. -- the state of the, the state of the 15 knowledge as of late 1968? 16 A. Late 1968? That was close, yes. 17 Q. And so having only that report available 18 to you, you doubted that what he had found was in 19 fact PCBs? 20 A. It wasn't my job to doubt, it was my job 21 to confirm. And so I kind of object to being 22 characterized as doubting. So I would like to 23 clarify that and say my job was to confirm that 24 they hadn't made a mistake; that, indeed, their 25 scientific interpretation of the theoretical 138 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055386 1 information and the new information they had was 2 correct in my opinion as an expert in the area. 3 And so that's what I did. 4 Q. And when did you confirm that? 5 A. When did I confirm that Soren Jensen's 6 work was correct? 7 Q. No. Well, okay, let's start with that 8 question. When did you first confirm that 9 Dr. Jensen's work was correct? 10 A. The confirmation of Dr. Jensen's work 11 was confirmed at the stage of the game where 12 evaluation of the technique showed they could do 13 what they do. 14 We had no reason to doubt his integrity 15 and that he wouldn't do what he -- do it correctly 16 and things of that sort. So I don't think there 17 was necessarily for a period of time a question 18 that these were actually biphenyls; I mean, that 19 was settled early on. The source of those 20 materials was indeed a question. And whether or 21 not they were being accurately measured was indeed 22 a question. 23 And since GC mass spec was the only way 24 of absolutely -- since GC mass spec was the only 25 way of absolutely identifying PCBs and since these 139 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055387 1 were the only people that did it and with just a 2 few samples, a handful of samples, I mean, all the 3 other things that were bandied around as 4 potentially being PCBs were just that, they were 5 conjecture. They weren't reality yet. 6 Now your question to me is when did I 7 determine that PCBs were real? 8 Q. No. No, that's not the question. 9 When did you form the opinion that 10 Dr. Jensen's work was valid to the extent that he 11 had found PCBs in the materials that he said that 12 he had found them in? 13 A. About the time that I had completed 14 establishing the methodology in our laboratory and 15 was satisfied that it worked and was actually 16 beginning to analyze environmental samples of our 17 own was when I began to really understand that 18 what he had done was correct. 19 Q. And when was that? 20 A. Well, I think that would have to be in 21 ' 69. 22 Q. Do you know when in '69? 23 A. I'm trying to remember. It would have 24 to be early in '69. It would be when we first -- 25 This isn't a, a black-or-white question 140 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055388 1 or a yes-or-no question. This is an understanding 2 of what has been done in the assimilation of the 3 information so that a pattern creates and then you 4 can set the pattern. 5 And we had to verify in our own 6 laboratory that what he was doing was correct and 7 that we got the same kind of results. Not the 8 same exact results; we never exchanged samples 9 with him. 10 My guess is in 1969, first quarter, 11 second quarter, in that range. 12 Q. Why didn't you exchange samples with 13 him? 14 A. First of all, we weren't -- they were 15 the first people in the world to connect a mass 16 spectrometer to a GC and they did it in 17 conjunction with LKV, which was a European 18 manufacturer of mass specs. And it was a 19 one-of-a-kind instrument that had just been hooked 20 together and done once; it was a major 21 breakthrough. 22 The gas chromatograph and the mass 23 spectrometer operate at different ends of the 24 spectrum. A gas chromatograph operates under 25 pressure; a mass spec operates under a vacuum. 141 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055389 1 The wherewithal for connecting the two had to be 2 developed so you could run the sample through the 3 chromatograph and into the mass spec. So there 4 were a lot of technical breakthroughs required to 5 do that; and, frankly, they were the only people 6 capable of it. That's why they did it first. 7 Q. And that's why you didn't share samples 8 with them? 9 A. I could share samples with them. Why 10 would I -- I mean, we did actually provide 11 standards and things of that sort of thing through 12 in Britain with the folks over there. But there 13 wouldn't be any sense in exchanging samples, we 14 hadn't established the techniques in our 15 laboratory at that point in time. 16 Q. I thought you said you didn't provide 17 samples to Dr. Jensen and Dr. Widmark? 18 A. We did not provide samples; we provided 19 standards. It turned out that Monsanto provided 20 everybody in the world standards for PCBs because 21 we made the materials and we were the sole U.S. 22 manufacturer of them. 23 MR. PRAUSE: When you get to a good 24 point I'd like to break. We've gone for an 25 hour. If this isn't it, and you want to go 142 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055390 1 for another five minutes or so, that's fine. 2 MR. WRIGHT : Yeah, I would like to 3 finish upi this ;point. 4 MR. PRAUSE : Sure. 5 MR. WRIGHT : We can take a break if you 6 would like. 7 MR. PRAUSE : If it's good for you. 8 MR. WRIGHT : It'1 s all right. 9 MR. PRAUSE : Okay, thanks. 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record 11 at 2:18. 12 (Recess taken.) 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the record 14 at 2:38 -- I'm sorry, 2:30. 15 MR. WRIGHT: I tell you what we can do, 16 though, is rather than all of us getting a 17 copy of this, we'll just have, that will be 18 the original and stay with the original 19 deposition. And then we can just get a list 20 of the numbers from you, from Ms. Court 21 Reporter, rather than you making three or 22 four sets of all of these documents. 23 Do you understand what I'm talking 24 about? 25 THE REPORTER: Yes, sir, exhibit number 143 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055391 1 what? 2 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. So this stack of 3 documents with the exception of the one you 4 have been talking about will be Exhibit 4? 5 MR. WRIGHT: Exactly. Yes. 6 MR. PRAUSE: So with the exception of 7 MONS 037992 through 037993, the remainder of 8 the documents that Dr. Tucker reviewed will 9 be designated as Exhibit EST4. 10 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. So let's make sure 11 that we get it on the record. 12 (Deposition Exhibit No. 4 marked for 13 identification.) 14 BY MR. WRIGHT: 15 Q. Dr. Tucker, we have talked about Exhibit 16 No. 3, which is a document out of the stack of 17 documents that you reviewed before your deposition 18 today and brought -- and the attorney that is 19 representing Monsanto brought to the deposition 20 today, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. Exhibit No. 4 is the remainder of 23 the documents that you reviewed in preparation for 24 the deposition and which were provided to you by 25 the attorney from Monsanto, correct? 144 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055392 1 A. Yes. 2 MR. WRIGHT: And we have agreed, 3 Mr. Prause, that, rather than each of us 4 getting a copy of this entire stack of 5 documents, that what the court reporter can 6 do is compile a list of Bates numbers and 7 append that to the deposition as Exhibit 8 No. 4? 9 MR. PRAUSE: Yes. 10 MR. WRIGHT: And whoever maintains the 11 original will just maintain the original 12 stack of documents as Exhibit No. 4. 13 MR. PRAUSE: That's acceptable. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 15 MR. PRAUSE: I guess we should also 16 clarify, these represent the documents that 17 Dr. Tucker has specifically reviewed in 18 preparation for this deposition. He is also 19 relying, though, of course, as an expert and 20 factual witness on his background, his 21 academic work. 22 I just don't mean to represent to you 23 that everything he is saying is based on this 24 stack of documents; but those are all of the 25 documents that he specifically reviewed in 145 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055393 1 preparation for this deposition. 2 MR. WRIGHT: I understand that. 3 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 4 MR. WRIGHT: That is what I had 5 understood. 6 MR. PRAUSE: Right. Great. 7 BY MR. WRIGHT: 8 Q. And by the way, these documents were 9 provided to you by the attorney for Monsanto for 10 your review, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. Are there any documents in this 13 stack that you specifically requested Monsanto 14 provide you? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Now a question that I asked you earlier 17 related to how you read chromatograms. In other 18 words, what that means. And I believe in this 19 stack is the method that you worked out, your 20 analytical method, correct? 21 A. There are a number of analytical methods 22 that were worked out in there and a number of 23 special studies and a number of other things. 24 MR. PRAUSE: This may be the one you 25 have in mind. 146 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055394 1 A. Can you review the earlier question that 2 you are referring to relative to the 3 chromatograms, or was that off the record? 4 Q. Well, it was kind of at the end of our 5 morning session where I told you that I was going 6 to ask you to explain how you read a chromatogram. 7 A. But that was off the record? 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. That was not a question that you asked 10 me -- 11 Q. I'm not arguing with you. 12 A. I'm not arguing with you, either. I'm 13 just trying to establish where we were at in terms 14 of was that a question that was asked earlier 15 while we were on the record? If it was, I don't 16 recall it. If it was the one that was asked as we 17 broke after we went off the record, then I recall 18 it. That's why I -- 19 Q. It was the one that was asked as we 20 broke. 21 A. I just want to understand the question. 22 Q. Yeah, it was the one that was asked as 23 we broke. And what I'm trying to find is the 24 first official analytical method that you... 25 All right. Let me hand you what's 147 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055395 1 marked as MONS number 079347 and ask you what that 2 document is. 3 A. Do you want the last number, too? 4 Q. The ending number, yes, go ahead and 5 give us the ending number. 6 A. The ending number on this document is 7 MONS 079383. The document I have been handed is 8 "Analytical Chemistry Method 71-35." It is a 9 consolidated revision of earlier analytical 10 chemistry method 69-13 and 70-1, according to the 11 statement on the cover. And it's entitled, 12 "Analysis of Environmental Materials for 13 Polychlorinated Biphenyls." 14 Q. Is that something that you wrote? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Or prepared? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. When was that prepared? 19 A. Well, the clues that I have on the front 20 page are 71-35. So this particular document would 21 be the 35th document, 35th analytical chemistry 22 method in 1971. It is a consolidated revision of 23 analytical chemistry methods 69-13 and 70-1, which 24 would in turn indicate that it was in some way 25 derived from method, analytical chemistry method 148 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055396 1 13 in 1969 and analytical chemistry method 2 number 1 in 1970. And from the best of my 3 recollection that's what I recall the way the 4 numbering system went at that time. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I don't -- I can look but I don't see 7 any other specific dates on this document or this 8 copy of the document. 9 Q. Okay. Well, what I would like to focus 10 on is if you could walk us through the way your 11 method worked. 12 A. Okay. It's the way the method worked. 13 And in essence, this is the kind of document that 14 would be handed to an individual who wanted to 15 know, "How did we do the analysis?" And in turn, 16 might, indeed, want to know how they should do the 17 analysis. 18 And actually contains enough information 19 that they should be able to read this, provided 20 they are educated in this skill, and be able to 21 reproduce it and set it up in their own laboratory 22 and do exactly what we did and get the same 23 results. 24 It is one of the ways that analytical 25 chemists communicate with each other in terms of 149 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055397 1 how to do things; they are called standard 2 operating procedures today. At this point in time 3 it was before we had EPA and things of that sort 4 and we didn't have standard operating procedures; 5 but it would be today called a standard operating 6 procedure, and it would be a standard method. 7 So it starts out with the title that we 8 have already talked about. Then it goes into the 9 scope of what the method is is intended, kind of 10 like a background. And then it discusses the 11 principles upon which the method is based. 12 And then it discusses an item called 13 reagents, which are the chemicals basically and 14 solutions prepared from chemicals, which are what 15 reagents are, that will be required to perform 16 what is in this particular standard operating 17 procedure. 18 The next section discusses a thing 19 called apparatus. And in the apparatus section 20 are the physical vessels and analytical type 21 tools, just like if you were a mechanic, that 22 would be required to manipulate the sample in 23 question that you are analyzing and the standards 24 and the quality control samples and things of that 25 sort through the procedure and obtain the final 150 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055398 1 results from the instrument. 2 The last -- the next section talks about 3 procedures and it has sampling. And then it talks 4 about the matrix, which in this particular 5 instance is water, and the extraction of the water 6 samples. 7 In other words, how do you treat the 8 water sample to get out of it what you want and to 9 get it out in such a fashion that it can be 10 presented to the next step or to the actual 11 instrument and determine what's in it in the way 12 you have decided to do that? 13 It talks about the extraction of water 14 samples; it talks about sediment and soil, the 15 extraction of the sediment and soil samples. The 16 first step obviously at this point is that you 17 need to take a sample itself and get the material 18 that you're interested in out of it quantitative 19 or as quantitative as you can without altering it 20 in any way, shape or form and get it into a form 21 that then can be taken to the next step in the 22 procedure. 23 It talks about whole animal, poultry, 24 fish, individual tissues. And by that it means 25 muscle, liver, fat, kidney, heart, spleen, lungs, 151 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055399 1 et cetera. It talks about extraction of these 2 tissue samples. And then it talks about milk and 3 it talks about, in the case after milk, it talks 4 about sample cleanup procedures. 5 Some samples, depending upon what the 6 bulk of the matrix is made up of, require special 7 treatment to ensure that the materials in question 8 are isolated in their entirety and also to 9 eliminate any interferences and leave those 10 behind. And we use sample cleanup methods to do 11 that. 12 And the sample cleanup methods called 13 out in this particular procedure are designated as 14 DMF/hexane partition; and that's 15 dimethylformamide, which is a, a means solvent, 16 hexane partition, and a chemical treatment. 17 Chemical treatment involving things like - 18 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, "involving 19 things like..."? 20 A. I am sorry, I completely forgot about 21 your, about going too fast for you and I 22 apologize. Wouldn't you like to be a student in a 23 class I was lecturing to? 24 Saponification with alcoholic potassium 25 hydroxide and extraction with sulfuric acid. And 152 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055400 1 those are types of cleanup procedures. 2 Another type of cleanup procedure that 3 is used to remove -4 Q. Why don't we kind of shot cut through 5 the cleanup procedures and go straight to assuming 6 you have a clean sample ready to go, what do you 7 do? 8 MR. PRAUSE: Do you mean concentrated 9 already, too? Or just clean? 10 Q. Yeah. After you, after you clean up the 11 sample then you have to concentrate it? 12 A. Very timely. The next thing was 13 liquid/solid chromatographic cleanup, which is the 14 last cleanup procedure. And then there are 15 evaporative concentration procedures which are 16 used because the solvents, you know, end up with 17 an unspecified large volume of an organic solvent 18 with the materials of importance in it. 19 And those have to be evaporated down to 20 a known volume that you want, so that it 21 concentrates the sample so that you have enough of 22 the material to analyze for it and you have to do 23 it without losing it, that's the step that -- the 24 last step before you are ready to run it through 25 the electron capture gas chromatograph and 153 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055401 1 determine whether or not these steps will work for 2 you. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Sometimes these steps need to be 5 repeated if it is a particularly difficult matrix 6 and that kind of thing. 7 At this point in the methodology it 8 describes the electron capture gas chromatograph 9 instrument being used. That's the important thing 10 for other people; if you don't know what kind of 11 instrument they're using, then it's hard sometimes 12 to reproduce what they're doing, at least at the 13 state-of-the-art in the 1960s. Today that is not 14 the case necessarily. 15 The instrument used in this particular 16 instance was a Hewlett-Packard 5750; that's a 17 designation of the company that manufactures it. 18 It was termed a research chromatograph and/or a 19 402 high efficiency gas chromatograph. And I 20 believe you have heard the 402 terminology 21 earlier. 22 Q. Yes, you mentioned that. 23 A. All right. The next specifies the 24 detection system used with the chromatograph. And 25 in this particular instance and in all the 154 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055402 1 instances in our work we used high temperature 2 nickel 63 electron capture cells. 3 Next it specifies the column that was 4 used in the instrument, a glass, spiral; and it 5 also specifies the packing in the column and the 6 liquid phased on the packing that's used to effect 7 the separation of the materials that are injected 8 into it. 9 Next it describes the column temperature 10 conditions which are used, which is another 11 important parameter that is used to define how a 12 chromatography is done. Next it specifies the 13 temperature range that the detector is held at; 14 and there are important reasons for that, too. 15 It also specifies the injection port 16 temperature. It also specifies the pulse rate 17 that is used with the, with the electron capture 18 detector. 19 It also specifies the flow rate for the 20 carrier gas; and the carrier gas is what 21 effectively carries what you want to separate 22 through the instrument column and into the 23 detector. 24 And then because the electron capture 25 detectors have unusual properties, there is a 155 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055403 1 requirement for a purge gas, which is an argon 2 methane gas mixture. 3 And that basically is what is required 4 to define the electron capture gas chromatographic 5 system that is used to make final measurement on 6 the samples that we prepared. 7 The next section describes quantitation. 8 And in a sense, as we have alluded to earlier, 9 PCBs are not a single entity and are a very 10 complex mixtures with varying ratios of each of 11 the isomers, of which there are 209. 12 Quantitation requires special 13 consideration and special definition so that 14 others who are doing what you are doing can 15 reproduce what you are doing. And each analytical 16 chemist at this point of the game tried to use a 17 system that would best exactly tell what you is 18 there or try to quantitate correctly the amount of 19 PCBs present in the sample. 20 This is further -- the difficulty here 21 is further complicated by the fact that samples, 22 the PCBs in real world samples can be altered 23 biologically or selectively through absorption 24 processes, through UV degradation, through a 25 variety of processes, and it changes the PCB 156 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055404 1 distribution. In other words, by that I mean type 2 and kind. 3 Once that is changed, then of course the 4 commercial product which has -- is manufactured to 5 have a specific isomer distribution of type and 6 kind no longer is a perfect standard. And so you 7 get into what's the best way to estimate the level 8 of PCBs in the sample. 9 Q. What did you determine was the best way 10 to estimate? 11 A. At this point in time, which was in 12 1971, the recommended quantitation procedure, 13 which was the best where we were at that time - 14 and the reason we documented it so well was so 15 that we knew that it might change and there might 16 be better ways that would come along. 17 But we also knew that people needed to 18 know exactly how we were doing it so they could 19 verify our results and take what we were doing and 20 do it with other things. 21 And basically it says, "Quantitative 22 determinations employing the electron capture 23 detector are non-stoichiometric measurements made 24 by compare peak heights or areas for known 25 concentrations with those for unknown 157 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055405 1 compositions. Four variations of the peak height 2 or area quantitation procedures have been 3 employed." 4 And it lists four cases: There's the 5 case where the electron capture gas chromatogram 6 of the PCB unknown is unchanged with respect to 7 the standard PCB with no evidence of 8 interferences. 9 Q. How do you tell that? 10 A. The detector -- Okay. The way the gas 11 chromatograph works, and I need to tell you this, 12 so bear with me so that you will understand how do 13 you tell that? My answer to your question, "How 14 do you tell that?" 15 In a plug flow basis you deliver a known 16 volume of solvent with PCBs in it and maybe other 17 things from a sample -- because nothing is perfect 18 in terms of cleanup procedures -- into the 19 instrument, into the injection port. 20 The injection port is heated at a much 21 hotter temperature than the column which is 22 attached to the injection port. When the solvent 23 and the PCBs go into the injection port, they're 24 flash vaporized. They are immediately converted 25 from a liquid form into a vapor form and they go 158 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055406 1 directly on the packing in the column. 2 The column is a glass column that just 3 is a spiral, sometimes, or a U; and it goes from 4 the injector port to the detector. The column is 5 sealed; and the way you get the sample in is by 6 sticking a fine needle through a septum, which is 7 a rubber or a synthetic-type rubber device that's 8 self-sealing. 9 So when you put the syringe through, 10 inject the sample in, it flash vaporizes and you 11 pull the syringe back out and the septa seals. So 12 the sample is swept by the carrier gas which flows 13 through the column in through the packing. 14 As the carrier gas -- and the column is 15 kept at a temperature, a specified temperature, 16 that's a little less than the injection 17 temperature sometimes but also less than the 18 detector temperature. 19 Because if the detector temperature is 20 less than the highest column, temperature then the 21 material can coalesce in the detector is a liquid 22 and ruin the detector and the, and the 23 determination. 24 So the material goes through the column. 25 And as it goes through the solid absorbent that's 159 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055407 1 coated with a known liquid that's not volatile, 2 the PCBs and other molecules present in the vapor 3 phase partition back and forth; in other words, 4 they go into the liquid phase and they come out of 5 the liquid phase; they go into the liquid phase 6 and they come out of the liquid phase. 7 Depending upon how well, how compatible 8 the liquid phase is with the organic molecule in 9 question, it will either be held back or allowed 10 to go through more quickly. 11 If the liquid phase likes the molecule, 12 it holds it back; it holds on to it because they 13 like to be associated with each other. If the 14 liquid phase does not like the molecule, then 15 molecule shoots right through; and that's what 16 causes the separation. 17 Each individual PCB has its own specific 18 molecular characteristics, as does any other 19 organic material that's in that sample that can be 20 volatized and run through a chromatograph. 21 The boiling point is reflective of this. 22 If it's a low boiling material, it shoots through 23 the instrument unless it's held up for some other 24 reason. If it's high boiling material, it takes 25 much longer to go through the instrument. 160 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055408 1 If it's a very polar material and you 2 have a very polar support, then it takes a long 3 time for it to go through because they like each 4 other. If it's not very polar and the support's 5 very polar and it goes through, it goes through 6 more quickly because they don't like -- opposites 7 don't necessarily attract as much. 8 Well, I'm not sure I said that 9 correctly, but I think you get the drift of what 10 I'm saying. 11 So what comes out is you put the PCAB in 12 as a, as a group. And the instrument does -- it 13 separates them into components. Doesn't do a 14 perfect job, but it separates them to the best of 15 its ability. Different columns have different 16 resolutions in terms of being ability to separate 17 these components and different types of columns, 18 support-coded open tubular columns, capillary 19 columns -- 20 Q. Sorry, say the one that you - 21 A. SCOT columns, SCOT, support-coded open 22 tubular columns, do a better job, have a higher 23 resolution than packed columns. But you've got to 24 only put so much sample in them. 25 And then capillary columns, which are 161 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055409 1 the ones that are used today, even have higher 2 resulution. So where you might put in 209 3 components for the PCB and separate it into 12 4 peaks for the packed column, 12 groups, with a 5 capillary column you might separate it into 100 6 peaks. 7 Q. How many do you get with the SCOT? 8 A. The SCOT columns? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. The SCOT columns were a precursor to the 11 capillary columns, so they were the first attempt 12 at producing capillary columns. And you get 13 hundreds of peaks or 50 peaks or 25 peaks. You 14 get more than you do with the packed column -15 Q. What were you - 16 A. -- a higher resolution. 17 Q. -- what were you using in the? 18 A. Packed columns. 19 Q. '71 method? Okay. 20 A. Packed columns. So lowest resolution 21 columns were what were available at that time. 22 Q. When were the SCOT columns introduced? 23 A. At some point after we had developed 24 this methodology we had some new support-coated 25 open tubular columns that were being evaluated for 162 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055410 1 other purposes. They were really intended for - 2 these columns were intended of QC analysis of neat 3 materials where there isn't any sensitivity 4 problems or things of that sort. And you put it 5 in there and you'd get a very good fingerprint and 6 it separates, maybe if you had 209 components, it 7 might give you 53 groups; whereas the packed 8 column would only give you 12. 9 They were a precursor to the capillary 10 columns which we have today, which do a much finer 11 job. You might get 125 -- you might separate them 12 to 125 groups. None of them separate them 13 completely. 14 The point is, is that it separates them 15 into groups. The point is it separates them into 16 groups and that those groups come out the other 17 end and they are detected by the detector. And so 18 what you end up with as a function of time on the 19 X axis is the detector response going up and down 20 as these separated components come out, okay? 21 If you put in Aroclor 1242, and this is 22 hypothetical, you would end up, say, let us say 23 that you would end up with 11 peaks; and they 24 would be in a certain intensity ratio such that 25 the major components would be here and then it 163 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055411 1 would come back down. That's call a gas 2 chromatograph -- gas chromatogram. That's the 3 output of the instrument. 4 Q. That's just a plain ordinary gas 5 chromatograph? 6 A. All the outputs from any GC is called a 7 gas chromatograph. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. It doesn't matter whether it is electron 10 capture, flame ionization, microcolorimetric. 11 Q. Okay. So, well, go ahead and finish and 12 then I have a question I need to ask you. 13 A. The unique thing that you have is that 14 every time you injected a Aroclor 1242 standard, 15 if you're running your system correctly and you're 16 staying within the ranges of your system so that 17 everything is linear and things of that sort, you 18 end up with the same pattern every time with the 19 peaks in the same ratio. 20 The first peak might be less than the 21 second peak, which is greater than the third peak 22 but which is less than the fourth peak, and it is 23 in the same ratio. So you get a fingerprint 24 that's characteristic of that Aroclor. 25 It is also characteristic of the system 164 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055412 1 that you are running it through. If you use a 2 different column, if you change the system 3 temperatures, if you change the carrier flow rate, 4 change the attenuation on the detector, then the 5 fingerprint changes. 6 Q. But if you run Aroclor 1242 through once 7 the machine has been calibrated, and then you run 8 a second sample of Aroclor 1242 through, the peaks 9 should match? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. Under situations where there are no 13 interferences present, where there have been no 14 physical and/or chemical and/or biological 15 alteration of the isomers present in that 16 material. 17 So yes. It is like everything in the 18 world: If you have an unchanged Aroclor and you 19 put it in once and you put it in again, you should 20 see the same thing. This is what it's all about. 21 Q. Right. That's right. 22 A. That's how you know deductively -- 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. -- that you're dealing with an Aroclor. 25 There's another aspect to it, too. The 165 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055413 1 reason you use an electron capture detector is 2 because it is a specific kind of system and only a 3 certain class of molecules are sensitively 4 detected by an electronic capture detector. The 5 molecule needs to have the propensity to be a 6 high, have a high capture rate for electrons; 7 that's why it is called electron capture. 8 A nickel 63 electron capture detector is 9 basically a nickel -- a tube with radioactive 10 nickel in it; and nickel 63 is a radioactive 11 isotope of nickel. It produces a beta particle 12 continuously as it decays in that source. And a 13 beta particle is basically an electron. 14 Q. Are we talking about what you used now? 15 A. As a detector. Yes, sir. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Yes, sir. And the nickel source has a 18 long half life so it is always constant in terms 19 of the amount of electrons that are coming out. 20 You have collector electrode above that. 21 The collector electrode collects the electrons and 22 measures them and gives you a certain output 23 signal. And as long as nothing is attenuating the 24 electron beam, as long as nothing is capturing the 25 electrons as you pass it through, then you always 166 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055414 1 get the same signal; you get a nice flat baseline. 2 Now when you pass a molecule through 3 that doesn't have, that's not electron capture 4 active, the baseline continues to be straight 5 because none of the electrons are captured by that 6 molecule and they don't cause it to be changed. 7 When you pass a compound that has, 8 that's highly electron capture active, such as 9 PCBs, chlorinated naphthalene, DDT, lindane, 10 toxaphene, et cetera, et cetera, through it, those 11 molecules capture electrons well and they 12 attenuate the beam. 13 So what you really see is you see the 14 current fall because it is changing the standing 15 current. And then, of course, as the molecule 16 passes through, it goes back up again. Okay. 17 Well, people don't like to see a 18 negative things, so we flip it over and we give 19 you a peak like this, even though it is an 20 attenuation versus an accentuation of the beam. 21 So that's what gives you your chromatograph. 22 So the detector is critical in the sense 23 that it doesn't detect a lot of things. It 24 detects a lot of things but it doesn't detect 25 everything. It's not a universal detector. So it 167 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055415 1 gives you some selectivity; so some things you 2 don't have to worry about causing interferences. 3 And that's how the whole system works. 4 So if I run 1242 through the system correctly -- a 5 standard, for example, not through all the sample 6 preparation portion but I run it through and I get 7 a nice - 8 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, "through the 9 system..." 10 THE WITNESS: Through the system. 11 THE REPORTER: "not..." 12 MR. WRIGHT: Not a sample. 13 THE WITNESS: Not, it's a standard. 14 A. And I get a nice fingerprint that, say, 15 gives me 12 peaks that looks like it is supposed 16 to. 17 Then I take another one and I run that 18 through again, I should get the same exact thing. 19 Not only do the peaks agree with each other on a 20 retention time basis -- in other words, the time 21 at which they elude from the instrument and see 22 the detector, but they also agree in the intensity 23 in terms of how much is there. 24 So the two standards need to agree with 25 each other. 168 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055416 1 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this, now. Before 2 the electron capture devices were paired with the 3 gas chromatograph, you still, if you just had a 4 plain old gas chromatograph, the principle would 5 be the same: You would put Aroclor 1242 in, for 6 example, and you would get peaks - 7 A. No. 8 Q. -- that - 9 A. You have to have a detector. And that's 10 why I took the time to explain that the electron 11 capture detector added a uniqueness to the system. 12 The first detection systems for 13 chromatographs were really what were called 14 thermal conductivity detectors. They are just a 15 heated wire inside this instrument and it has a 16 current passing through it that heats it. When 17 you passed a molecule over it in that little 18 cavity, it would cool the wire, depending upon how 19 much of it was there and what it was. And you 20 would measure that signal. 21 Now, obviously, almost anything that 22 went across that wire cooled the wire to some 23 degree or another so that thermal conductivity 24 detector was universal. If you had petroleum 25 hydrocarbons, if you had benzene, if you had ethyl 169 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055417 1 alcohol, anything you put in there gave you a 2 signal. 3 Q. So when you said Monsanto had 15 or so 4 gas chromatographs, that's what you were 5 describing? 6 A. Correct. None of the gas chromatographs 7 that Monsanto had at that time were intended for 8 environmental analysis. They were all intended 9 for product quality control. And to be real 10 truthful with you, the first electron capture 11 instrument that I -- the detector and the 12 instrument that I used that I had at Monsanto 13 there was so highly contaminated because it had 14 neat materials put into it that the only thing I 15 could do was get familiar with the equipment and 16 how it worked and things of that sort. 17 It never was able to achieve the 18 sensitivity needed to measure PCBs in the 19 environmental samples. And the reason was is, is 20 that at some point in that instrument's career it 21 had probably seen 100% Aroclors. And so the 22 electron capture detector is a million times more 23 sensitive than the detectors they were using; so 24 even if there was just a millionth of the material 25 that they put in there hanging around in that 170 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055418 1 instrument somewhere, each time you protubated it, 2 you would get a signal with that very, very 3 sensitive detector. 4 So that's why we had to go to the 5 biomedical chromatograph detection system, which 6 this next one we talked about. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Now if that original system had never 9 seen neat materials, we could have used it. But 10 it is just a whole different world. 11 Q. Okay. I guess what I'm trying to 12 determine is: Before the pairing of the electron 13 capture with the gas chromatograph, what level of 14 detection could you achieve? For example, could 15 you achieve 100 parts per million? 16 A. Yep. 100 parts per million is 100th of 17 a percent, and that would be down toward the lower 18 limit on those particular instruments, right. 19 But everything else under the sun caused 20 a response, too. And everything else under the 21 sun is at -- is present usually at a million times 22 the concentration you find PCBs in the 23 environment. PCBs are at the part per billion, 24 part per trillion level. 25 Q. Yeah. But right now I'm not talking 171 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055419 1 about that. 2 A. I know. But I'm going -- I'm trying to 3 make sure that I'm not taking you a place that I 4 shouldn't because I don't give you enough 5 information. 6 The TC detector could never be used to 7 monitor environmental PCBs, period. 8 Q. What is the TC detector? 9 A. Thermal conductivity. That's kind of 10 like the first GC detector. 11 Q. That's the ones you are saying that 12 Monsanto had when you showed up? 13 A. That's the ones that Monsanto and a lots 14 of other people had when I first showed up and 15 they have them today. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. They still have them today. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. It's a universal detection system. 20 Q. But it could detect PCBs to a 100 part 21 per million level? 22 A. Pure, unadulterated, not contaminated 23 with, standards, yes. 24 Q. Why couldn't it detect fresh Aroclor 25 1242? 172 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055420 1 A. It could by itself at down to about 2 100th of a percent or 100 parts per million. 3 Q. 100 parts per million? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. All right. Same with Aroclor 1254? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. 1260, 1268? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. All of those? 10 A. And I'd like to -- 100th of a part per, 11 100th of a percent was the limit. It wasn't an 12 optimal working range; it's like down at the 13 bottom. Okay? A 10th of a percent would be a lot 14 better. 15 Because, again, you're dealing with 209 16 components. And if you separate them, each 17 component becomes less of the percentage, so 18 you're not really dealing with the whole. 19 Q. Okay. Now is it your testimony that the 20 only machine that could go below 100 parts per 21 million was this new machine that you acquired for 22 Monsanto? 23 A. Yeah, that's basically it from a layman 24 viewpoint, yes. 25 Q. There was no other technology between 173 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055421 1 the chromatograph that you mentioned and the 2 medical electron capture machine? 3 A. Okay. I need to clarify something here. 4 In my life, the words "any" and "all" don't exist. 5 Q. Well -- 6 A. And if you say "all," that precludes any 7 exception whatsoever. And I can't live with that 8 because that's not the real world. And when you 9 say "any," you do the same thing. 10 Q. What I'm asking you, doctor, - 11 A. So I'm stumbling on your guestions -- 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. -- because you're asking me to give you 14 100% answers which don't exist. 15 Q. Let me rephrase it. 16 If you had not had electron capture 17 technology in 196-, late 1968 when you started 18 working in this area, if you had not had that 19 machine, is there another method that you could 20 have used to measure PCBs below 100 parts per 21 million? 22 A. Not in environmental samples and not 23 definitively, no. 24 May I reverse the situation and have you 25 understand that the people that began to detect 174 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055422 1 these things began to detect these things because 2 they were using electron capture -- gas 3 chromatographs with electron capture detectors. 4 Q. Well, they weren't looking for PCBs? 5 A. That's correct. But they saw them 6 anyway. 7 Q. That's right. 8 A. And other people were using the other 9 kinds of detectors that you're talking about for a 10 long time ago, I wonder why didn't they discover 11 the PCBs? 12 Q. And what I'm asking -- let me object, 13 not responsive. 14 What I'm asking you, sir, is a 15 completely different question. The question that 16 I'm asking you as a scientist and as an expert 17 witness for Monsanto is, is it your testimony that 18 in 1968 there was no technology available to 19 detect PCBs below the 100 part per million level 20 other than electron capture technology? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. What other technologies existed 23 in 1968 and 1969 to detect PCBs below 100 parts 24 per million? 25 A. Well, you could use infrared 175 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055423 1 spectroscopy. You could use ultraviolet and/or 2 visible spectroscopy. You could successfully 3 tweak and adjust conditions such with great 4 difficulty that other systems that weren't so 5 sensitive could possibly see it. 6 Q. Okay. What other systems? 7 A. Well, you could take the sample and 8 concentrate it 100-fold times so that you were 9 delivering more, more absolute material to the 10 instrument and you would see something. 11 Would you know what it is? No. 12 Could you say it was a PCB? Not unless 13 you put it in there and knew you put it in there. 14 Q. So your testimony is that if you were 15 looking for PCBs there is no other method 16 available to detect PCBs? 17 A. You're asking me if I was looking for it 18 and then you're asking me if there's no other 19 method available? 20 Q. Yeah, let me -- hang on - 21 A. You're asking me if I were looking for 22 PCBs, what technique would I use? And I will tell 23 you the technique I would use would be gas 24 chromatography either coupled with an electron 25 capture detector or a mass spectrometer. That's 176 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055424 1 what I would tell you. 2 Now the next question was? 3 Q. Yes. I understand your answer to that 4 question because that's what you did use and 5 eventually got very good at it. 6 A. It's not, it's not what I -- what I just 7 used, it's what the entire worldwide international 8 community including everyone in the United States 9 used eventually. 10 Q. Yes, I understand that. My question is 11 much simpler than that. My question is: Before 12 that technology came along, if you wanted to 13 determine the existence of PCBs in a sample at a 14 level less than 100 parts per million, could you 15 have used existing technology and done so, to the 16 best of your knowledge? 17 MR. PRAUSE: Do you mean an 18 environmental sample as opposed to? 19 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah. By "environmental," 20 I'm talking about either dirt or water or 21 fat. 22 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 23 MR. WRIGHT: I assume that's what you 24 mean by "environmental." 25 MR. PRAUSE: "Sample" can be also what 177 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055425 1 Scott calls a neat Aroclor, which, and 2 there's a difference. 3 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah. I don't want to get 4 into an argument. 5 MR. PRAUSE: I want to make sure his 6 answers are clear. 7 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah Let me rephrase the 8 question. Don't answer, let me ask a 9 question, okay? 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. That will be the 11 last time you say that, right? (Laughter) 12 BY MR. WRIGHT: 13 Q. The question is very simply, doctor: 14 Are you aware of any technology that was available 15 before this electron capture technology came on 16 the scene that could have identified PCBs in, say, 17 a sample of water at levels below 100 million -- I 18 mean 100 parts per million? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Are you aware of any technology that 21 could have identified or detected PCBs in lipids 22 at a level below 100 parts per million? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Are you aware of any technology that 25 could have detected PCBs in air at levels below 178 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055426 1 100 parts per million? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. Describe that technology for me, 4 sir. 5 A. The reason I answered no to the initial 6 questions and yes to the last question is there is 7 a difference between "detect" and "identify." 8 There are many ways to detect things; there are 9 few ways to identify them. 10 So the initial three questions you asked 11 me if I could detect and identify, identify and 12 detect. I could detect probably but not identify. 13 The last question, for whatever reason, you chose 14 to alter it and asked me if I could detect but you 15 didn't ask me if I could identify it as a PCB; and 16 so the answer to the last question was yes. 17 I'm not being a smarty person. I'm 18 trying to say that this is not as simplistic a 19 routine as we would like to reduce sometimes. So 20 the answers to those questions are no, no -- and I 21 believe there were only three of them -- yes. 22 Q. Okay. Now let me ask you a fourth 23 question. Without the use of this electron 24 capture technology that you began using in 25 1968/'69, was there a way for a scientist such as 179 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055427 1 yourself to detect the presence of PCBs at levels 2 below 100 parts per million in water? 3 A. Sometimes, but not identify. 4 Q. So if you were a scientist, you -- and 5 you were looking for PCBs, you could have detected 6 their presence but you couldn't have determined 7 exactly what isomers they were? Is that what you 8 are saying? 9 A. No. 10 Q. If you were a scientist and you were 11 looking for the presence of PCBs in a sample of 12 water, for example, could you have determined the 13 presence of PCBs at levels at less than 100 parts 14 per million? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Are we having a semantic problem between 17 my use of the word "determine" and your use of the 18 word "detected"? Because I don't understand how 19 that question and answer is any different than 20 what we went through a few minutes ago. 21 A. And what I'm trying to do is what you 22 are asking me to do, and that is answer your 23 question. And so I am answering the question. 24 Q. All right. 25 A. Is the question appropriate? Well, from 180 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055428 1 a scientific viewpoint -- I'm sure it is 2 appropriate from your viewpoint and I don't have 3 any opinion on that one way or the other. 4 Q. If it's -- 5 A. But you are asking me if I could detect 6 PCBs. And the answer to that question is I don't 7 know whether it is PCBs or not. I could detect 8 something but it could be, it could be gasoline. 9 It could be mineral oil. Because those detection 10 systems would see mineral oils just as easily as 11 they would see PCBs and they would look the same 12 and you wouldn't be able to tell. 13 So I would be able to detect it but I 14 wouldn't be able to tell you what it is. 15 Electronic capture has the unique 16 property of only being absorbed molecules that 17 capture electrons, of which PCB is a member. 18 Mineral oil is not. So you can mix PCBs with 19 mineral oil and you can put them in an electron 20 capture instrument and it will ignore the mineral 21 oil and it will see the PCBs. 22 You take that same mixture and put it in 23 the systems that were available -- flame 24 ionization, thermal conductivity -- and you run 25 them through, it will see them both and you can't 181 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055429 1 tell what's there. You have no, you haven't a 2 clue whether it is a PCB unless you made the 3 solution up. 4 Q. Okay. So just to clarify, then, your 5 testimony is you could not have quantified PCBs in 6 air, for example, before 1969 or '68? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. Okay. You're aware of no technology 9 that could have quantified PCBs in water or in fat 10 or in soil or in any other, or air, or any other 11 environmental media below the level of 100 parts 12 per million? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And so if Monsanto or anyone else had 15 asked you, "Dr. Tucker, can you tell me how much 16 PCB is in the air in this room," you could not 17 have done so in 1968? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And you're not aware of any scientist in 20 the world that could have done so? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And the method that you developed you 23 believe was the first method that could accurately 24 do something like that? 25 A. Well, first of all, for the record, I 182 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055430 1 didn't develop the technique. There were a lot of 2 people that developed the technique. 3 What I did was I use an existing 4 methodology and applied it specifically to PCBs 5 and showed that it be could be applied with PCBs 6 with the same results that were obtained with 7 other chlorinated hydrocarbons or pesticides, so 8 be it. 9 So I didn't invent anything. I took 10 existing technologies and put them together in a 11 fashion and choose to them and optimize them for 12 what they were intended to study chlorinated 13 hydrocarbons. 14 So, you know, there's not any invention 15 or anything of the sort here. Does that? 16 Q. Yes. All I'm trying to clarify is, in 17 your scientific opinion before that method was 18 developed by whoever it was developed by there was 19 no other way to quantify PCBs in environmental 20 media? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. Okay. Now let's mark this as Exhibit 23 No. 5 . 24 (Deposition Exhibit No. 5 marked for 25 identification.) 183 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055431 1 Q. I'm going to hand you a document -- 2 A. Are we done with? 3 Q. Not yet, just sit it off to the side, if 4 you would. 5 A. Okay. That's fine, I'm happy to do 6 that. Actually, I'll make sure we do. 7 Q. Exhibit No. 5 is marked DSW 147758, and 8 it is through 147781. And it is entitled, "Report 9 No. 2970, Final Report on Aroclor in Gases." And 10 it is by the Research Department, Phosphate 11 Division. 12 MR. PRAUSE: Do you have another copy of 13 that. 14 MR. WRIGHT: No. 15 MR. PRAUSE: Since it is not a document 16 I showed Dr. Tucker? 17 MR. WRIGHT: I don't have another copy 18 of that. I'm asking him to look at it. 19 MR. PRAUSE: I would like to be able to 20 look at it, too. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't you and he look 22 at it together? 23 THE WITNESS: We can do that. 24 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 25 THE WITNESS: All right. 184 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055432 1 BY MR. WRIGHT: 2 Q. Have you ever seen that report before? 3 A. I don't recall seeing it before. 4 Q. Basically it was a report done by -- 5 A. I would like to look at it and read it 6 if you're asking me to do something, unless you 7 would like to explain it to me first. 8 Q. I'll explain it to you and then you can 9 tell me whether I'm right or not. Basically -- 10 MR. PRAUSE: I'll object to you making 11 statements on the record. If you are going 12 to present a question to the witness, that's 13 fine; but you testifying is not what we're 14 here for today. 15 Q. Okay the question is: Is that report a 16 report that was prepared by someone who worked in 17 a similar position to you in the year 19 -- 18 MR. PRAUSE: 53. 19 Q. -- 53? 20 A. I don't know. 21 Q. Can you check and see? 22 A. Now you want me to check to see whether 23 the gentleman writing this report was a Ph.D. 24 analytical chemist, is that what you want me to 25 check? Or would you like me to read this report 185 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055433 1 and see what it says. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Excuse me, 3 Dr. Tucker, you lost your mike there. 4 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. It 5 happened when I moved over next to Marsh. 6 You got me on a short leash here. Am I 7 coming in clear now? 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Yes, thank you. 9 THE WITNESS: I was afraid of that. I 10 was kind of keeping an eye on it. 11 BY MR. WRIGHT: 12 Q. I read the title of the report; and you 13 and I together can read some additional 14 information about it, and then I'll see if you can 15 answer my question. The report is entitled, as I 16 stated, "Final Report on Aroclor in Gases," 17 correct? 18 A. You're asking me if this is what the 19 title says? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. Not what the report is? 22 Q. Yes. 23 A. Okay. The title states as you read it. 24 Q. Okay. And it states that it was for the 25 "Research Department, Phosphate Division, 186 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055434 1 Anniston, Alabama," correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Work started May 8, 1953, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. Work completed October 16, 1953? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Correct? Report submitted March 15, 8 1954? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And it was prepared by H.B. Richards, 11 Jr., correct ? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Did you know Mr. Richards? 14 A. And there is also A.M. Ellenburg? 15 Q. Yeah. Chemists, underneath that, 16 chemists ? 17 A. No . 18 Q. A.M. Ellenburg -- 19 A. Not to my knowledge. 20 Q. -- and H.B Richards, Jr. 21 A. And the question is did I know -- 22 Q. Did you know either of those gentlemen? 23 A. No . 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. I didn't even know they were gentlemen. 187 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055435 1 They could be females, for all I know. 2 Q. All right. It says, "18 copies of this 3 report were distributed as follows." One to the 4 file in the St. Louis library. You're familiar 5 with the St. Louis library, correct? 6 A. Out at Crevecouer, that is correct. 7 Q. Okay. In fact, that's one of the places 8 where you went to try to assist you in preparing 9 your methodology, correct? 10 A. Yes, I did. 11 Q. Copy went to A.M. Ellenburg. Copy went 12 to H. K. Mason. Copy went to the Research 13 Library, Anniston. Copy went to England. 14 Copy went to P. G. Benignus, you knew 15 him, didn't you? 16 A. Paul Benignus, yes, I did. 17 Q. Copy went to Emmett Kelly. You knew 18 him, didn't you? 19 A. Yes, I did. 20 Q. Copy went to H.L. Hubbard. Did you know 21 H.L. Hubbard? 22 A. Name sounds familiar but I don't think 23 SO . 24 Q. Okay. Did you know anybody else on the 25 list of recipients? 188 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055436 1 A. Nope. 2 Q. Okay. The report is marked as 3 confidential, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Shows a contents page, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. There's an introduction. And it said, 8 "Dow Chemical Company is interested in using 9 Aroclor as a plasticizer in manufacturer of their 10 Saran, (vinyl-) -11 A. Vinylidine. 12 A. Vinylidine plastics? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. "(vinylidine chloride) plastics, but is 15 hesitant for fear that the Aroclor vapor might 16 produce toxic affects upon the personnel in their 17 plant. 18 "At the request of the sales department 19 this work was undertaken to determine the Aroclor 20 vapor concentration in the Anniston plant under 21 usual working conditions." 22 Is Aroclor vapor concentration 23 attempting to determine the amount of Aroclor in a 24 sample of air? 25 A. Yes. 189 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055437 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counselor, I'm about 2 to run out of tape, if we could change the 3 tape real quick. 4 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 6 3:29 to change tape. 7 (Recess taken.) 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record at 9 3:33. 10 A. I have reviewed the document and -- 11 Q. Well, wait, let me ask you a question. 12 A. Okay, fine, thank you. 13 Q. All right. Doctor, we took a break and 14 you have had the opportunity to review Exhibit 15 No. 5; is that correct? 16 A. Yes, sir, it is. 17 Q. And let me ask you some questions about 18 it. 19 In this document, these scientists did 20 quantify the amount of Aroclor in several samples 21 of air, correct? 22 A. No. Incorrect. 23 Q. On Page 4, Table I, it's entitled, 24 "Aroclor 1242 Vapor Concentration in the Plant." 25 Correct? 190 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055438 1 A. That's what it is entitled. 2 Q. And they give a test number, which in 3 this, looking at the top one is 10. Position 4 number 5; presumably, that's a position in the 5 plant but I guess we don't know that unless we 6 read the entire report. 7 From your review, can you confirm that 8 that's what they are talking about? 9 A. I, it could be. No, I can't, and I 10 don't think the sampling position is relevant to 11 our discussion. 12 Q. All right. They give a concentration of 13 chlorine? 14 A. May I ask you a question? 15 Q. Right now, I'm just going over the 16 results. 17 A. Sure. 18 Q. And then I'm going to ask you questions 19 about the results. 20 A. All right. 21 Q. They give "Concentration, Chlorine" and 22 they state that as .14, correct? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. And then they give MG/CU.M. You as a 25 scientist know that that means milligram per cubic 191 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055439 1 meter, correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Of Aroclor, correct? And they give an 4 amount at .33, correct? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Okay. So they are saying that in that 7 sample there is .33 milligrams per cubic meter of 8 Aroclor 1242 in that sample of air? 9 A. No, sir, that's not what they are 10 saying. 11 Q. Okay. What are they, what do you 12 believe they are saying? 13 A. May I have the document, please? 14 Q. Yes. 15 A. Thank you. What they are saying is that 16 they are using a technique that takes everything 17 in the air through a heated furnace which 18 decomposes everything to hydrochloric acid if 19 there happens to be a chlorine carbon bond 20 present. 21 The hydrochloric acid is then captured 22 and the chloride ion derived from that combustion 23 technique is then reported, and that's what they 24 are saying "Concentration, Chlorine" is. 25 They then take the chlorine -- which 192 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055440 1 could be from any source, any molecule that 2 contains a carbon chlorine bond -- and they for 3 the purposes of this study, since they are only 4 concerned about maximum numbers that could be 5 Aroclors and they are working in an environment 6 where they know Aroclors is the predominant thing 7 used, they convert that into a value that is 8 representative of perhaps the amount of Aroclor 9 that could be present. 10 And if -- and this is why I don't, I try 11 not to be a lawyer. If you read the study later 12 on and if you honestly look at what, how they 13 specify what they are measuring, it clearly states 14 that they are not measuring PCBs and that any 15 number of other materials could contribute to it, 16 and that they are not identifying these as PCBs. 17 And I think it's a little unfair from my 18 viewpoint to extract portions of a 20-page 19 document and not go to the qualifications that the 20 scientists themselves put on the information. 21 And they state very clearly in the 22 discussion that the comparative determinations of 23 total chlorine in the air -- well, first they say. 24 "The conditions of the tests and the 25 limitations of apparatus are not such that 193 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055441 1 absolute determinations of chlorinated 2 hydrocarbons are not -- that absolute 3 determinations of chlorinated hydrocarbons are not 4 possible. Comparative determinations of total 5 chlorine in the air during any specific tests can 6 be made. The chlorine detected by this apparatus 7 can be attributed to three sources: 8 "1. Chlorinated hydrocarbons in the 9 air, Aroclors, or any other chlorinated 10 hydrocarbon. 11 "2. Chlorine in the air as free 12 chlorine or as HCL. 13 "3. Chlorine ion present in the 14 absorption solution and the wash water." 15 So they clearly state to a person 16 knowledgeable in the subject that the method is 17 not specific and is only reflective and only can 18 be used under certain circumstances with certain 19 qualifications. 20 This method would never be adopted to 21 analyze an unknown sample at the levels we're 22 talking about for polychlorinated biphenyls. 23 Q. Let me object, nonresponsive. 24 Doctor, you will agree that the intent 25 of this research was to quantify the amount of 194 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055442 Aroclor in the air in the Anniston plant, correct? A. Yes. Q. And that's what the scientists were attempting to do, correct? A. Yes. Q. And they reported results quantifying the amount of Aroclor in the air with a discussion of their methodology and the parameters that they were using, correct? A. Yes. Q. And they reported total chlorine, correct? A. Correct. Q. And then they used an assumption to say that the chlorine in the Aroclor plant was Aroclor, correct? A. No . Q. If we turn to Page 11, the conclusions, item one says, "No absolute determinations of Aroclor vapor concentrations can be made by the method used, due to presence of unknown quantities of chlorine and hydrochloric acid in the air." Correct? A. I can't see the document from where you have it, I'm not reading it. So it could possibly 195 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2 WATER PCB-SD0000055443 1 be correct, I have no reason to doubt it. 2 It says, "No absolute determinations of 3 Aroclor vapor concentration can be made by the 4 method used, due to presence of unknown quantities 5 of chlorine and HCL in the air. The assumptions 6 made permit simplified evaluation of the data." 7 Q. Okay. So even in 1954 they were able to 8 make measurements that, if they were looking for 9 PCBs in this environmental matrix, they could 10 quantify it at least to the 11 half-a-milligram-per-cubic-meter level? 12 A. No, they are not. And I know the point 13 eludes you, and they simply are not. And in this 14 point, I'm an expert. 15 Q. Well, you'll agree that that's, that was 16 the purpose of their inquiry, correct? 17 A. The purpose of their inquiry was to make 18 a derivative measurement that could be used to 19 indicate what might be there. And what these 20 gentlemen are doing is okay and they qualify it 21 very well and they stated exactly what their 22 purpose is. 23 Q. And you -24 A. If you take this same technique and go 25 anywhere else than they were and apply it, you 196 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055444 1 would not know nor could you assume that the 2 material present might even be derived from PCBs. 3 This is an inappropriate method except 4 under the specific conditions and with the 5 exceptions noted by the chemists present. 6 Q. And that's because they were in an 7 Aroclor manufacturing plant and were looking for 8 Aroclor in the air? 9 A. No. It is because of the method used 10 and the specifications that the method should be 11 used for and the characteristics associated with 12 it. 13 Q. The, you are aware, of course, doctor, 14 at this point that back in this period of time 15 there were standards by which workers were not 16 supposed to be exposed to more than a certain 17 concentration of Aroclor in the air, correct? 18 A. This is in 1953? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. I'm not aware. 21 Q. You're not aware of that? 22 A. Of the standards in 1953, 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I'm not a toxicologist. 25 Q. Okay. 197 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055445 1 A. I'm an analytical chemist, which is what 2 we were talking about. 3 Q. Okay. And I take it you are completely 4 unaware then of the studies done in the 1930s of 5 concentrations of Aroclor and PCBs in the air and 6 their effect on rodents? Is that true? 7 A. I'm aware that studies of the sort may 8 have been done. I'm not aware of the specifics. 9 I haven't read them, I haven't seen them. 10 Q. Is it your testimony that all of those 11 studies -- or that any study that attempted to 12 quantify Aroclor or PCBs in the air before 1968 13 are necessarily invalid? 14 A. No, sir. And I, I don't believe that, 15 that it is fair to put those kinds of words in my 16 mouth. And I would like to state what I said. 17 What I said was that the method they 18 used measured chlorine in the air. And 19 furthermore, they used a derivative procedure 20 whereby they took the air with whatever was in it 21 and ran it through a furnace and burned it. And 22 then they collected any residual chlorine. 23 They looked at that and they said, 24 "Well, if that chlorine were solely derived from 25 Aroclor then there would be this much Aroclor in 198 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055446 1 the air." 2 And then further in their discussion 3 they clearly defined the exceptions and they 4 clearly defined that the information they were 5 generating was relative and only in certain 6 circumstances could even be considered maximums. 7 Q. One thing -8 A. It is not an acceptable manner to 9 measure PCBs. 10 Q. Let me object, nonresponsive. 11 Have you ever heard the term MAC as an 12 analytical chemist? 13 A. The acronym doesn't jump out at me, and 14 most things I read have acronyms. 15 Q. "Maximum allowable concentration"? 16 A. It could stand for that, yes. 17 Q. And you're aware -- well, you may not be 18 aware, but this document states that there was a 19 MAC, there's a MAC, and I'll just represent to you 20 that stands for "maximum allowable concentration." 21 It says, "Based on the present MAC, 22 maximum allowable concentration, of 1 milligram 23 per cubic meter, it appears advisable to wear a 24 mask or respirator if concentrations of Aroclor 25 are high enough to be irritable to the nasal 199 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055447 1 membrane." 2 Did I read that correctly? 3 A. You read it correctly. 4 Q. "Since the room painted with Lustrex 5 Latex Paint contains Aroclor 1248 definitely has 6 an odor of Aroclor for several days after 7 painting, caution should be exercised in 8 recommending Aroclor for this use." 9 Did I read that correctly? 10 A. Yes, you did. 11 Q. And Item No. 2 in their conclusion -- we 12 went through Item No. la moment ago -- Item No. 2 13 in their conclusions is, "The apparent Aroclor 14 concentration in the plant varies greatly from .5 15 to 1 milligram per cubic meter under mild 16 conditions up to 5 to 8 milligrams per cubic meter 17 under the most severe conditions." 18 Did I read that correctly? 19 A. Yes, you did. 20 Q. Okay. Is it your testimony that Aroclor 21 was not being measured in the tests that they did 22 in 1954? 23 A. It is my testimony, and it is as stated 24 by the people who did the study, that they were 25 not measuring Aroclors. They state very clearly 200 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055448 1 that they are measuring chlorine, and that from 2 the chlorine number they are making assumptions 3 and deriving an Aroclor number that they report. 4 So the answer to your question is they 5 are not measuring PCBs; they are not measuring 6 Aroclors; they are measuring chlorine. 7 Q. Now so does it continue to be your 8 testimony or is it your testimony that prior to 9 1968 or '69 there was no method available for 10 closely approximating PCB levels in environmental 11 samples below 100 parts per million? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Let me just make sure that I'm clear in 14 my understanding about what you mean by that. 15 Without the use of electron capture and 16 I had an environmental sample, air or water or 17 fat, I could identify PCBs and quantify them; but 18 whether it was 300 parts per million or 100 parts 19 per million, I couldn't tell? 20 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 21 question. 22 A. No. 23 Q. That is not correct? 24 A. That's not correct. 25 Q. Okay. So you couldn't tell within 100 201 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055449 1 parts per million how much PCB is in a sample 2 before the use of the electron capture? 3 A. Let me say the following. The first 4 question that you have asked had an "or" in it. 5 The second question reduced that question to a 6 specific matrix versus the environmental matrix 7 that you talked about to begin with. 8 I'm willing to answer the original 9 question, which I answered. Now the second 10 question is a different question and I would like 11 you to state that one again for me, please. 12 Q. Well, doctor, with all due respect, you 13 have baffled me and I need to object, 14 nonresponsive. 15 Because what was the original question 16 that you think I asked and that you think you 17 answered? 18 A. I would suggest we have the reporter 19 read the record so we can both be accurate. 20 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 21 Q. Actually, I would rather have her read 22 the last question and have you, without 23 editorializing, just answer my question. Can you 24 do that ma'am? 25 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the gratuitous 202 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055450 1 statement on the record. 2 (Record read.) 3 THE WITNESS: Read it again. 4 (Record read.) 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 BY MR. WRIGHT: 7 Q. Okay, now, let's go back to the 8 method -- hand me back, if you would, Exhibit 9 No. 5 -- let's go back to the method that we were 10 discussing earlier. And I was going to ask you to 11 explain the quantification of the chromatographs 12 or the quantification procedure used. 13 And it strikes me that the best way to 14 explain that is by letting us look at a 15 chromatograph and you tell us what it means. 16 A. Is that the way you would like to do it? 17 Q. Is that the way you think would be best 18 to do it? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. How do you think it would be best 21 to explain how PCBs are quantified using this 22 process? 23 A. There's a section in here that's called 24 quantitation and that describes quantitative 25 determination employing the electron capture 203 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055451 1 detector. 2 Q. It was my understanding from reading 3 that that you had to have a chromatograph with a 4 peak so that you could look at the peak and 5 measure the area and so forth. Is that true or 6 not true? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. In order to quantify? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. So why don't we look at a peak? 11 MR. PRAUSE: If that's what you want to 12 do. 13 A. Which peak would you like to look at? 14 Q. You pick one that you think shows - 15 well, that would allow you to explain the 16 quantification procedure. I think, the reason I 17 picked this document is I think there are examples 18 of several chromatographs in the back part of it 19 and so if you could just pick one? 20 A. You would like me to pick one? 21 Q. If you would, since you're the expert. 22 A. Absolutely, thank you. I appreciate 23 that. 24 Q. If you would pick one. 25 A. This theoretical peak probably will 204 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055452 1 explain -- help me at least explain to you in a 2 fashion that I think we can understand how 3 quantitation occurs. 4 MR. PRAUSE: Just so the record is 5 clear, we're looking at Dr. Tucker is 6 describing what appears on Page MONS 079362 7 of the document that is the analytical 8 chemistry method 71-35. 9 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. 10 A. If the component that we are looking at 11 and we run through the instrument is a single 12 component or a fairly single component, when it 13 comes out the instrument on the other end we get a 14 peak with a good Gaussian shape. 15 Q. What do you mean by Gaussian? 16 A. Gaussian shape means that it has an 17 equivalent distribution, a fairly equivalent 18 distribution, on either side of the center. If 19 you look, there's about as much area on this side 20 of the peak as there is on the left side of the 21 peak. 22 Q. Why don't you show that? I think the 23 camera can get in. Hold that up. 24 A. Can you see that? 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Yes. 205 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055453 1 Q. Show that you are talking about there is 2 about the same amount of area on either side of 3 the center of the peak? 4 A. This is a peak and this is the center 5 line on the peak. A nice Gaussian distribution - 6 which means you are getting a decent peak and that 7 kind of stuff -- means the shape is regular. And 8 the shape means that it has symmetry around the 9 center point. 10 So it means that about as much area is 11 on the left as on the right. That's a nice, nicer 12 situation. 13 What happens is that you, and if you 14 look at this closely, I'm not sure the camera can 15 get that close. 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I got it. 17 A. Says here "Injection." And as we had 18 discussed earlier, this is where the sample is 19 introduced into the injection port of the 20 chromatograph. 21 And the sample is usually introduced in 22 a fairly volatile liquid that shoots through the 23 instrument very quickly. And then that leaves the 24 material that you are interested in, plus other 25 things, on the front of the column where it begins 206 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055454 1 with temperature and with the carrier gas to move 2 through the system. 3 The X axis here shows is basically time. 4 So if we move along the X axis while the material 5 is moving through the column, it hasn't yet 6 reached the detector yet. And as we go down the 7 road here on some arbitrary time scale, at some 8 point it passes completely through the column and 9 the first portion of it comes out of the column 10 and go through the detector. 11 As it goes through the detector, because 12 of the properties associated with that and the 13 detector, the detector begins to sense it as being 14 there. And in the electron capture detector, what 15 happens is that it attenuates the electron beam; 16 so rather than having a continuous standing 17 current, it starts to change that and it decreases 18 the standing current. Which means that we begin 19 to get a response. 20 Now as I said, it's flipped. So the 21 response shows that as more and more of the 22 compound comes off, more and more of the beam is 23 attenuated and the peak get bigger and bigger and 24 bigger and bigger. At some point you reach where 25 most of material has come off and it starts to go 207 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055455 1 down. 2 So this whole peak is reflective of the 3 material that came off the chromatograph from the 4 start to the finish. 5 Most chromatographs either mechanically 6 or electronically measure the area under this 7 peak. And if you know the concentration because 8 you put in a standard, then you take the 9 concentration and you get a response factor. So 10 every unit of area is equivalent to a certain 11 concentration or amount of the compound in 12 question. 13 So you measure the area or the peak 14 height -- peak height is a nice way to measure, 15 too, anything that's indicative and proportional. 16 And you take that and you multiply it times your 17 response factor and that tells you how much is, 18 how much is in that peak if it were the compound 19 in question that you are measuring that as. 20 Q. Okay, now what happens -- well, real 21 quickly, the peaks represent groups of chlorinated 22 isomers when you are talking about PCBs, correct? 23 A. Yes. When you are talking about PCBs, 24 the peaks on these types of columns are more 25 frequently than not multiple components. Because 208 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055456 1 the isomers of same chlorine number are so close 2 in their properties, the resolution of the system 3 is not such that it can separate it. So in that 4 group, a peak like this might represent two or 5 three compounds. It might. 6 Q. Now let's look at, I think you have a 7 real world sample in there. 8 A. These are electron capture chromatograms 9 under equivalent conditions of the different 10 Aroclors. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. And it ranges from the 12 to 21% 13 chlorinated biphenyls all the way up to I believe 14 it's 60%. I'm having trouble reading it from the 15 side. 16 And the intermediate range, for example, 17 this chromatogram here is what you would see 18 typically for 1242, this would be 1248, this would 19 be 1254, and this would be 1260 run under the same 20 conditions. These are standards. 21 MR. PRAUSE: Dr. Tucker, could you read 22 the number appearing in the lower right-hand 23 corner of the page we're talking about for 24 the record? 25 THE WITNESS: MONS 079365. 209 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055457 1 Q. Now are, so those would be what we would 2 consider or what you would call a neat Aroclor 3 sample? 4 A. No, they would actually be standards but 5 they are standard Aroclors. They are really very 6 low levels of known Aroclors; they're known, 7 they're standards dissolved in hexene. So 8 they're, so they're not really -9 Q. So that would not be from production 10 A. No, that wouldn't be -11 Q. -- Aroclor? 12 A. No . Well, it would be from production 13 but it wouldn't be a production sample. 14 When you do quality control on the 15 production sample you take a portion of the 16 material you're producing and you measure what's 17 in it. Okay? 18 In this particular instance, we're 19 taking a portion of the production material, using 20 it as a standard, and we're taking a very small 21 amount and dissolving it in a large amount of 22 hexene. 23 Q. Yeah, but that's - 24 A. So it is not neat. 25 Q. -- that's a production sample that is 210 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055458 from a known lot and batch, correct? A These are taken, yes, these are PCBs that are obtained from known production batches and that are being used after dilution as standards for, in this case, environmental analysis. Q Okay. Do you have in that document a sample of an environmental analysis? A Yes. In fact, there are a number of them and we can choose any one you wish to look at. Q Yeah, I thought there were a number of them. But if this is as good as any, let's just look at MONS 079372. And this is from albino rat muscle extract, correct? A The center chromatogram is of Aroclor -- Q Okay. A -- that was obtained from the extraction of -- Q I apologize. A Nothing to apologize about, it's just that these other two are standards Q Three separate chromatograms on that page? A That's correct. 211 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2 WATER PCB-SD0000055459 1 Q. And the middle one is an environmental 2 sample. The other two are what you are calling 3 the standards, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. Okay. And obviously the middle one 6 doesn't match either of either the top or the 7 bottom. 8 A. The, I think it would be more accurate 9 to say that the middle one does not exactly match 10 either the top or the bottom but there are 11 matches -- 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. -- in terms of retention times. 14 Q. Tell me how you determine that that's 15 one part per million of the Aroclor 1242? 16 A. First of all, this one part per million 17 doesn't refer to what's in the sample; it refers 18 to the exposure level of the animal. The animals 19 in this particular instance were being fed a chow 20 that contained one part per million of Aroclor 21 1242 intentionally put in it. 22 Q. Okay. I apologize. What is the level 23 of Aroclor 1242 that is reflected by that sample? 24 A. I don't know. That's not the intention 25 of this particular example. The intention of this 212 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055460 1 particular example, if you would like me to 2 continue, I would be happy to do so. 3 Q. All right. 4 A. If not, just say so. 5 Q. All right, go ahead. 6 A. The intention of this particular 7 chromatogram is to show the changes that Aroclor 8 1242 undergoes when it is fed to an animal in its 9 chow. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. And then isolated from the muscle and as 12 you can see -13 Q. Let me just stop you. 14 A. Oh, sure. 15 Q. I understand that. What I'm trying to 16 figure out right now is how you quantify it using 17 chromatograms. And maybe, would you see if there 18 is another sample in there that would allow us 19 to -- you to explain how you quantify? 20 A. Yeah. And I would like to exercise my 21 prerogative as an expert in terms of what we are 22 talking about to make sure that the explanation is 23 as I indicated earlier. Because it is not as 24 simplistic as it would be nice if it was. 25 And in our quantitation procedure there 213 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055461 1 are four cases that we consider. And it is where 2 the PCB unknown, which would be the middle 3 chromatogram. 4 Q. Right. 5 A. Is unchanged with respect to the 6 standard PCB with no evidence of interferences. 7 Q. Right. 8 A. Okay. In other words, when you run it, 9 it looks exactly like the standard production 10 material. 11 Q. Right. 12 A. Then there's case two, where the gas 13 chromatogram of the PCB unknown is altered with 14 respect to the UC standard PCB with no evidence of 15 interferences. That's this. 16 Q. Right. 17 A. We know that, from deductive logic, we 18 know the animals weren't exposed to anything 19 except PCBs so we don't except DDT or anything 20 else. That's case two. 21 Case three, the amount of PCB unknown 22 unchanged with respect to the standard PCB with 23 evidence of interferences, that is not this 24 particular example. 25 And case four, where the UC 214 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055462 1 chromatograph is altered with respect to the 2 standard PCB with evidence of interferences. 3 So in this particular instance it would 4 be probably quantitated as a case two, where the 5 ECB -- where the PCB chromatogram was changed but 6 there was no evidence of interference. 7 Under those circumstances, one of the 8 techniques that is employed and what we would 9 recommend is that you prepare a calibration curve 10 and -- as the original 1242 and get a response 11 factor; and then take this and measure the same 12 area and get a response factor back; and calculate 13 and estimate the PCB level that's there. 14 And what is done nowadays is they would 15 take three of the dominant matching peaks in the 16 most closely -- in the Aroclor distribution that 17 was closest to it and they would use those to 18 quantitate it. That's the EPA procedures used 19 today. 20 So what they would probably take is this 21 peak, that peak, and -- this peak, that peak and 22 that peak and relate it to these peaks and 23 calculate it as Aroclor 1242. 24 Q. Okay. What I would like to know is how 25 you did it in 1970. What quantitation method did 215 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055463 1 you use for environmental samples in 1970? 2 A. In 1970. We in most instances compared 3 it to the closest matching product after looking 4 at the envelope, or products. If it was a 5 long-standing chromatogram and it looked like 6 there might be two different PCBs there, then we 7 chose to two that most represented what was there 8 and then we used those as standards tests to 9 estimate the amount of PCB that was present. 10 Q. Okay. And how did you go about 11 estimating the amount of PCBs? 12 A. We took the PCBs in question, Aroclor 13 1242, for example, or 1254 or 1260; we injected 14 known amounts in the instrument; and we varied 15 that known amount over a specific calibration 16 range. 17 We then calculated the response factor 18 for that PCB over that range and we had a 19 calibration curve. 20 So then we calculated the same response 21 in the same region for the unknown. And then we 22 went on the response and we went over to the 23 calibration curve and went down to the 24 concentration. 25 And that was the way the concentration 216 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055464 1 was estimated in those samples. 2 If there were interferences that were 3 obviously there, then we worked around that peak 4 and used peaks that we could see were not 5 interfered with by the ratios and the intensities 6 associated with them. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. And we always clearly stated at this 9 stage of the game how we did the estimation so 10 that others would know that's the way we did it. 11 Q. By the way, did you keep laboratory 12 notebooks? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. And these were kept in the lab 15 there at the Queeny plant? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Did that include the chromatograph 18 strips ? 19 A. Chromatographs were kept as their own 20 entity. And most things that dealt with 21 nondevelopment samples or were actually samples, 22 environmental samples and things of that sort, 23 were initialed, dated, documented and retained. 24 Q. Okay. And where were they retained? 25 A. When? 217 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055465 1 Q. '69, '70, '71. 2 A. In '69 and '70 most of them were 3 probably retained, you know, in our laboratory 4 because at that point in time we hadn't generated 5 enough information to exceed the capacity to store 6 it ourselves. And we would be using it on a daily 7 basis because we had lots of questions and we were 8 comparing what we did this day versus what we saw 9 the next day and just trying to learn about 10 things. 11 Q. Right. After that, in later years, 12 where did it go? 13 A. At some point in time I recall that all 14 my documentation and all the records were boxed, 15 inventoried, and were turned over to the Legal 16 Department. 17 Q. And that would include the laboratory 18 notebooks? 19 A. I'm sure it would. 20 Q. And that would include the 21 chromatographs for the samples themselves? 22 A. I'm sure it would. 23 Q. Okay. And that would include any notes 24 or calculations that you made regarding those 25 samples? 218 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055466 1 A. If the notes or calculations were 2 entered in the laboratory notebooks or if the 3 notes or calibrations were entered on the 4 chromatograms or if the notes or calibrations were 5 attached to the chromatograms, yes. 6 Q. Was it normal procedure for calculations 7 to be done on one of those three items? 8 A. Actually there were, there were - 9 Q. In other words, was it normal procedure 10 to either do your calculations in the lab 11 notebook, do your calculations on the strips 12 themselves, or attach the calculations to - 13 A. The normal procedure was to do the 14 calculations in the lab notebook. 15 Q Okay. Can you describe what the lab 16 notebook looked like or the lab notebooks liked 17 like? 18 A No . 19 Q Okay. Well -- 20 A Well, they were -- 21 Q -- I think you can. 22 A They were this size, about that thick. 23 No, I don' t, no, I object to that a 24 little bit. Because I'm telling you that I do not 25 have a definitive memory of the lab books we used 219 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2' WATER PCB-SD0000055467 1 at that time. And I have used hundreds of lab 2 books over the years, so. 3 Q. All I'm asking is, is were they -- the 4 lab notebooks that I have seen, and you tell me if 5 this is the kind of lab notebook it would be, are 6 kind of like what you can buy at the drug store, a 7 composition book where the pages are bound, it has 8 a hard cover, you can open it and then you can 9 make entries? 10 A. Yeah, I think there were some like that. 11 I think they were a little bit more companyized. 12 Q. All right. So Monsanto had -- 13 A. I mean they were probably produced in 14 quantity for Monsanto. 15 Q. Monsanto had its own specific laboratory 16 notebooks that it issued to you all? 17 A. I'm sure they did. I don't recollect 18 the notebook specifically. I do recollect 19 notebooks. 20 Q. Okay. Now in your St. Louis 21 laboratories did you become proficient and the 22 people that worked with you become proficient at 23 quantifying PCBs in environmental samples? 24 A. Does "proficient" mean "practiced"? By 25 definition. 220 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055468 1 Q. "Proficient" means "good." Did you all 2 become good at it? 3 A. "Practice" means "good." Yes. 4 Q. And were there ways that you could tell 5 whether you were good or not? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. I assume you had quality assurance 8 methods, correct? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. And can you describe briefly the quality 11 assurance method that you used? 12 A. Sure. We ran standards. We ran blanks. 13 Intermittently with what we ran, we would run a 14 standard to make sure the instrument was still 15 running properly. 16 We ran surrogates. That might be 17 something like a pesticide or a simple, yeah, a 18 simple pesticide that we had a known response for 19 and that we could tell from that whether the 20 instrument was still operating the way it should 21 and things of that sort. 22 So the quality control at that 23 particular point in time wasn't as formalized as 24 it is now in environmental laboratories but it was 25 in the development stages and it was certainly 221 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055469 1 there. 2 Q. At some point did you -- now I know at 3 least initially you were doing all of the 4 environmental samples for Monsanto from all of the 5 plants basically, is that fair? Early on? 6 A. I think it's fair to say that we had the 7 capability at South Second Street facility and 8 that most of the samples that were being analyzed 9 were sent to the South Second facility to be 10 analyzed. It is not necessarily fair to say I was 11 doing it by all, everything myself. 12 Q. No, no, no, I didn't mean yourself - 13 A. But you did say "you." 14 Q. Okay. I apologize. I meant -- and 15 that's a fair clarification. You had staff 16 working with you by the '69/'70 time frame? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Is that correct? And I assume you had 19 more than one machine by, let's say, 1970? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Okay. And when I said that you became 22 proficient and good at quantifying PCBs and 23 environmental samples, I meant your laboratory 24 there at South Second Street. 25 And by the way, you were the head of 222 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055470 1 that section, I assume? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Correct? 4 A. I was the technical, I provided the 5 technical supervision. 6 Q. All right. At some point you brought in 7 people from the other plants and taught them how 8 to do the analysis, correct? 9 A. It was at least one or two instances 10 where that was done. 11 Q. And one of the instances was Anniston, 12 correct? 13 A. Anniston was one of the two plants that 14 we had that manufactured PCBs. 15 Q. And you turned -- well, you assisted the 16 Anniston plant to set up their own PCB analysis 17 capability. Correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Using the methods that you had 20 documented there at the South Second Street 21 facility? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. And you instructed them how to do that, 24 correct? 25 A. Correct. 223 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055471 1 Q. And my understanding is that they set up 2 a -- they brought in a portable building so that 3 they had a clean facility and set the machinery up 4 in it and began performing the same kind of 5 analysis that you were doing at South Second 6 Street. Is that your understanding? 7 A. Yes. They began performing the analysis 8 in the same manner that we were doing it, yes. 9 Q. Yes. And did you go to Anniston, by the 10 way ? 11 A. No . 12 Q. You never went to Anniston? 13 A. Huh-uh. 14 Q. You need to answer out loud. 15 A. I apologize. No, I never went to 16 Anniston 17 Q. Did anyone from South Second Street go 18 to Anniston? 19 A. I'm sure they did. 20 Q. Do you know of anybody that worked for 21 you that went to Anniston? 22 A. I don't recall specifically, no. 23 Q. Did anybody from Anniston come to 24 St. Louis? 25 A. Yes. 224 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS 2[ ] WATER PCB-SD0000055472 1 Q. Who do you remember from Anniston coming 2 to St. Louis? 3 A. You know, there was a technician that 4 was sent up there, or a chemist, whichever way you 5 want to look at it. He spent several days in our 6 laboratory, where worked with him and made sure he 7 understood what he was doing and introduced him to 8 everybody and to the methods and just made sure he 9 knew what he was doing. And then he went back and 10 set them up down there. 11 Q. How long was he in St. Louis? 12 A. Better part of a week, probably. Could 13 have been more, I don't recall; but I know it took 14 that long to familiarize him with what we were 15 doing. 16 Q. Was his name Turner? 17 A. Yes, that name sounds familiar. 18 Q. Did a Toby Bell come up to St. Louis? 19 A. Yes, I met Toby Bell several times I 20 think. 21 Q. Did you ever meet a Bunky Wright? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. So all three of those gentlemen at some 24 point came to St. Louis? 25 A. Yes. 225 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055473 1 Q. But you only specifically remember 2 training Mr. Turner? 3 A. Depends on your definition of 4 "training." We trained Mr. Turner to do the 5 methods and how to prepare the samples and how to 6 interpret this and how to quantitate and how to 7 operate the instrumentation and things of that 8 sort. 9 The other gentlemen, if I remember 10 correctly, were more supervisory type folks. And 11 they basically were more interested in, "Gee, what 12 do you need to do? How do you do it? How 13 difficult is it? What's this look like and what's 14 that look like?" And things of that sort. 15 That's my recollection. 16 Q. Now did you become aware at some point 17 that the Anniston plant was having to submit 18 reports to environmental authorities? 19 A. I was aware of it. I'm not, I'm not 20 sure when specifically I became aware of it or how 21 I became aware of it. 22 Q. Okay. Did you -- and by "you," I don't 23 mean you personally, I mean the people in South 24 Second Street -- in let's say by 1970 or so, were 25 you performing analyses that you knew were going 226 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055474 1 to be reported to environmental agencies, either 2 state or federal? 3 A. All of the information that we 4 generated, generated was ultimately shared with 5 government agencies. 6 I want to make sure when you say 7 "environmental agencies" I understand what you are 8 talking about. Because the time frame you are 9 talking about was 1970. Was EPA even formed by 10 that time? 11 Q. All I'm talking about -- that's why I 12 used the term "environmental agencies." 13 A. I just wanted to clarify that. 14 Q. Yeah. I'm talking about some 15 governmental entity, whether it's state or federal 16 or even city or county? 17 A. The results weren't always necessarily 18 generated specifically at the request of those 19 kinds of individuals -- 20 Q. But you knew - 21 A. When the -- can I complete my answer, 22 please? 23 Q. Yeah. 24 A. When they shared samples with us or 25 asked us to do things and it was agreed to do them 227 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055475 1 and we did them, the information was shared with 2 them. 3 All the information that was generated 4 in the laboratory ultimately was shared with 5 anybody and everybody, including the agencies as 6 they began to form and get into compliance 7 situations. 8 But initially there were no, there was 9 no EPA, there was, no, it was just interested 10 people. 11 Q. And, yeah, and I'm just asking. I know 12 at the very beginning that's the way it was and 13 eventually it transformed to where various 14 environmental agencies became aware of the 15 situation and concerned about being informed about 16 it. 17 And I just want to know when, if you can 18 recall, your consciousness elevated to the point 19 where you realized that the work you were doing 20 had the potential at least for being submitted to 21 regulatory agencies? 22 A. To be real truthful with you, all of the 23 work that we did had the potential to be submitted 24 to regulatory agencies, to clients, to customers, 25 to international agencies; and none of the 228 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055476 1 information was generated with any more or any 2 less quality than it was required to get the 3 answers in the best manner that we felt we could. 4 And so in the period that you are 5 talking about, especially prior to 1970 and things 6 of that sort, we generated best information that 7 we could and supported it with proper 8 documentation. But as far as being required to 9 hand it over to a government agency or to meet 10 some compliance level or things of that sort, they 11 didn't exist at that time. And that's important 12 that it be realized. 13 Q. Okay. Well, I was specific -- I was 14 specifically talking about the 1970 time frame 15 and. And the reason I'm asking you this is that I 16 believe it was in 1970 that the Anniston plant was 17 required to begin submitting reports to the 18 Alabama Department of Environmental Management. 19 And I - 20 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 21 question. 22 MR. WRIGHT: What was the wrong with the 23 form of the question? 24 MR. PRAUSE: It is the Alabama Water 25 Improvement Commission. 229 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055477 1 MR. WRIGHT: That later became the 2 Alabama Department of Environmental 3 Management. Okay. 4 BY MR. WRIGHT: 5 Q. Were you aware of that? 6 A. In retrospect, I don't recall being 7 highly consulted or involved in or any of that 8 kind of thing. I recall at some point in time 9 seeing memos and things of that sort that were 10 generated for those purposes. 11 We trained the folks to do it; we 12 exchanged samples with them; satisfied we knew 13 what they were doing. They always had us 14 available to ask questions and to send samples to 15 verify what they were doing. Things of that sort. 16 The specifics of what they did with the 17 state or what they provided the state was 18 certainly not filtered through us in any way, 19 shape or form. 20 Q. Okay. You knew it was obviously 21 important that if information is being transmitted 22 to a governmental agency at that agency's request 23 that that information be as accurate as possible? 24 A. Okay. I, I'm going to have to say to 25 you from a professional viewpoint the information 230 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055478 1 that I generate. Whether it be for a regulatory 2 agency or for any other use, is defensible and it 3 is in line with the expectations and data quality 4 objectives associated with that information. 5 And so if you are implying or you're 6 trying to find out whether I stand on my ear or do 7 something particularly special to produce 8 information for compliance agencies, that's not 9 true. I meet the data quality objectives that I 10 need to and the information is provided. If they 11 have any questions about it or the quality control 12 associated with it, we share that information with 13 them. 14 We understand how to produce the best 15 defensible information that's available. 16 Q. All right. And that's the way you 17 trained your employees and the people from the 18 other plants that you taught, correct? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. Okay. And you expected them to do, to 21 adhere to the same high standards that you held 22 yourself and your own laboratory to, correct? 23 A. We hoped they would, yes. 24 Q. Well, did you assure that they would? 25 A. As I indicated earlier, we trained them. 231 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055479 1 Q. Yes. 2 A. Secondly, we exchanged samples with 3 them. 4 Thirdly, we recommended the equipment 5 they buy. 6 And fourthly, we were always available 7 to provide backup either in expertise or analysis 8 if they so deemed they needed it. 9 Q. Do you recall ever changing or telling 10 them that they needed to change their methodology 11 to generate more accurate reports? 12 A. No. If we early on would develop a 13 better way of quantitating or if we generated 14 information with standards that let us understand 15 that if we used, say, 1242 and 1254 as standards 16 and did it this way then it didn't really matter 17 how altered it was, we got a pretty good result - 18 it was maybe plus or minus 10% of what we were 19 doing -- we would communicate that kind of 20 information. 21 But certainly at that stage of the game, 22 as long as the person documented very clearly how 23 they did the calculations and they did them 24 consistently and it was acceptable, that's the way 25 it was done. 232 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055480 1 If we made improvements, we told them 2 about that; and they were, it was up to them and 3 their agreement with whoever they were reporting 4 the information to whether that was the thing they 5 wanted to do. 6 Q. Okay. Let me just ask this. Did 7 they -- did the outlying labs ever get better than 8 you -- and by "you," I mean you personally and 9 your crew there in South St. Louis -- at 10 performing these kind of analyses? 11 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 12 question. I don't know what you mean by an 13 "outlying lab." 14 Q. Did either Anniston or Chrome Ridge or 15 Ruabon or anybody else in the Monsanto companies 16 ever get better at doing quantitative analysis 17 than you at South Second Street? 18 A. You know, the objective was to produce 19 defensible information that met the data quality 20 objectives, and that's what was done. And that 21 was what was done by the other laboratories. And 22 I don't know "what better" than is. 23 Q. Did they ever get -- did they ever 24 produce more accurate or more defensible, to use 25 your term, information than you did in your lab? 233 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055481 1 A. Not really. It wasn't a contest. This 2 isn't a contest. I mean, it is an effort, a 3 professional effort, to determine to the best of 4 your ability what's there so the information can 5 be used to make appropriate decisions. 6 And so the "better than" implies that 7 there is some sort of contest or something. They 8 became as good as, certainly, and as capable as we 9 were. But I don't think we ever looked at it like 10 there was a contest or graded each other or 11 anything of the sort. 12 When they were first starting up, we 13 would look at how they did things in very much 14 detail to make sure that it made sense and that 15 they were doing it consistently and they 16 understood what the objectives were and things of 17 that sort. 18 But did any lab, did any lab become 19 better than we did? No. 20 Did they become as good as we were? 21 Yes. 22 Did they become as capable as we were? 23 Sure. 24 Q. Now are you aware in 1971 -- well, let 25 me just show you here. For example, page 13145 of 234 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055482 1 the documents that you looked at? 2 A. Is that the same as Exhibit 3? Is that 3 what that is, or what is it? 4 MR. SHIELDS: Exhibit 4. 5 THE WITNESS: It is part of Exhibit 4? 6 MR. WRIGHT: It is part of Exhibit 4. 7 BY MR. WRIGHT: 8 Q. When I say the documents you looked -9 A. Okay. 10 Q. --at before the deposition, just from 11 now on -12 A. Okay. 13 Q. -- you'll know I'm talking about Exhibit 14 No. 4 . 15 A. If I'm confused I'll continue to ask 16 questions to clarify it. 17 Q. Yes, sir. Can you state for the record 18 what that is. 19 A. Let me look at it first of all. 20 (Witness peruses document.) 21 Okay, I have had time to look at the 22 two-page document. 23 Q. Okay, what is it? 24 A. It is a memo on Monsanto -- it's a copy 25 of a memo on Monsanto company header indicating 235 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055483 1 that it was produced at Anniston, Alabama, on 2 November 6, 1970. It is written to Mr. J. L. 3 Crockett, Jr., Technical Staff Director, Water 4 Improvement Commission, State Office Building, 5 Montgomery, Alabama. 6 It is written by J. C. Landwehr of the 7 Technical Services -- it says, "Technical Services 8 Supervisor." And on the blind carbon copy it 9 lists G. L. Jessee, F. J. Holzapfel, W. B 10 Papageorge, J. L. Conder, and P. B., I think it's 11 Paul, P. B. Hodges as being sent. 12 And it also shows that there is an 13 attachment; it doesn't specifically say what the 14 attachment is or -- 15 Q. Well, isn't there an attachment? 16 A. Then it says, "Attached are data 17 compiled at Anniston," this is in the body of the 18 memo. It says, "Attached are data compiled at 19 Anniston regarding Aroclor content of the plant 20 effluent. As you requested, we shall report this 21 information to you on a monthly basis." 22 Q. All right. And that document is dated 23 when? 24 A. November 6, 1970. 25 Q. Okay. Is it your understanding that 236 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055484 1 they continued to document data like that until 2 some time in 1971? 3 A. They could have. Obviously, from review 4 of this, I'm not, didn't receive a copy, I wasn't 5 on the list. And whatever they were doing was 6 they were doing directly in agreement with and as 7 requested by the technical staff director at the 8 WIC. 9 Q. All right. 10 A. So did I review this information or look 11 at it or anything? Have I ever seen this before 12 back then? No. 13 I have seen it recently, obviously; I 14 went through these documents. 15 Q. Okay. Do you remember seeing reports 16 like that back in the 1970/1971 time frame? 17 A. Not routinely, no. 18 Q. Well, you say, "not routinely." 19 A. Well, in 19- - - yeah, I answered the 20 question too quick. You said the 1970/'71 time 21 frame? 22 Q. Yes. 23 A. No . 24 Q. Did you ever have, to your knowledge, 25 any contact with the Alabama Department of 237 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055485 1 Environmental Management or its predecessor, the 2 Alabama Water Improvement Commission? 3 A. In that time frame, no. 4 Q. Okay. When did you have contact with -5 A. I was providing air monitoring and 6 quality control/quality assurance support for a 7 thermal operation for Rust a few years ago down in 8 McIntosh, Alabama at the Ciba Geigy plant down 9 there. 10 Q. It didn't have anything to do with -11 A. Correct. 12 Q. -- the Monsanto plant -13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. But the reason my contact, in answering 16 your question, is relative. And it is called ADEM 17 now, I think. Right? 18 Q. Yes. Okay. Did you ever recommend that 19 anybody ever tell the Alabama regulatory authority 20 anything specific? 21 A. No. Nope. 22 Q. Okay. Let me show you a document that 23 may or may not be contained in Exhibit 4, I 24 haven't had the time to find it. But it is MONS 25 044289. And ask you if you are familiar with 238 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055486 1 that? 2 A. Thank you. 3 MR. PRAUSE: Is that your only copy? 4 MR. WRIGHT: That's my only copy. I'm 5 going to look real quick here and see. 6 MR. PRAUSE: It doesn't look familiar to 7 me. 8 MR. WRIGHT: What's it dated? What's it 9 dated? 10 MR. PRAUSE: Not clear, you can 't tell. 11 MR. WRIGHT: It's covered up by the 12 sticky. 13 THE WITNESS : It's February 197 . Oh, 14 here it is, no, there's a sticky on top. It 15 says 3/12/71. 16 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah, okay. 17 BY MR. WRIGHT: 18 Q. So February or March of -- the report I 19 think is probably dated February of '71 and the 20 sticky? 21 A. The report is dated some time in 22 February in the '70s, from this copy. 23 Q. All right, okay. 24 A. I can't t ell. 25 Q. I don't believe it is in the stack of 239 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055487 1 the things that you were provided in preparation 2 for the deposition. 3 If you look at the -- first of all, 4 you're not unfamiliar with reports of that type, 5 correct? 6 A. Well, I'm nowhere to be found on the 7 distribution. Am I? 8 Q. I bet you are. Let me see it. 9 A. Sure. I might be, I looked fairly 10 quickly, but. 11 MR. PRAUSE: Have we marked that as an 12 exhibit ? 13 MR. WRIGHT: No, this will be No. 6. Is 14 that right? Yes. 15 (Deposition Exhibit No. 6 marked for 16 identification.) 17 BY MR. WRIGHT: 18 Q. It's entitled, "Organic Chemicals 19 Division, R&D Laboratories, St. Louis." And it's, 20 the sticky is from W. B. Papageorge. And it says, 21 "Applied Science Staff." 22 Were you part of the Applied Science 23 Staff? 24 A. Myself and about 30 other people, yes. 25 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask you about 240 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055488 1 something that I think you'll be aware of. But 2 perhaps you'll tell me that you weren't aware of 3 this . 4 A. Only time will tell. 5 Q. Yeah. In the one, two, three, fourth 6 paragraph, would you -- let me just read. 7 "Comparative EC/GC," which is the methods we have 8 been talking about, electronic capture gas 9 chromatograph, correct? 10 A. To be real truthful, before I comment on 11 it I would have to read the statement in its 12 entirety. 13 Q. Okay. Why don't you read -- 14 A. And I can't see it the way you're moving 15 it. 16 Q. I apologize. 17 A. No. You go ahead and read it and then 18 I'll look at it. 19 Q. No Why don't you read the paragraph out 20 loud and then I'll ask you a question about it. 21 A. Okay. 22 MR. PRAUSE: If you feel more 23 comfortable reading the entire document, that 24 would be -- 25 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah. All I'm asking -- 241 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055489 1 (Simultaneous conversation.) 2 THE WITNESS: We'll see where we go with 3 it. 4 MR. WRIGHT: All I want to talk about is 5 that paragraph. 6 THE WITNESS: And I thank you -- 7 MR. PRAUSE: I would like to look at it, 8 too, Scott, when you get a chance. 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. The paragraph that 10 I have been asked to read is the one, two, 11 three, fourth paragraph on the third page of 12 this fax. And "Speciality Products Aroclor 13 Environmental Program." 14 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, read loudly. 15 THE WITNESS: Sure, absolutely. Usually 16 they tell me to calm down. 17 "Comparative EC/GC analysis of duplicate 18 Anniston plant effluent samples for PCBs were 19 carried out at Anniston and St. Louis. The 20 levels of PCB found calculated as Aroclor 21 1242 were two to four times greater than 22 those reported by Anniston. The reason for 23 the disagreement lies in the methods used to 24 estimate the PCB level. Anniston uses the 25 peak height technique, while we employ the 242 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055490 1 total area of the envelope. The two 2 techniques produce equivalent results when 3 the isomer distribution of the Aroclor in 4 question is unaltered. The search for a more 5 absolute quantitation will be continued. 6 Additional exchange samples will be analyzed 7 using the total area calibration procedure." 8 BY MR. WRIGHT: 9 Q. Okay. I think you would agree that a 10 200% to 400% undercount is at least significant, 11 correct? 12 A. It is a difference in the range stated 13 for the samples that were exchanged between the 14 two laboratories which were undoubtedly exchanged 15 to establish that so that we could make sure that 16 they were doing what they were supposed to be 17 doing. 18 Q. All right. So a memo or correspondence 19 should have and would have gone out to Anniston to 20 tell them to change their method to make it more 21 accurate? 22 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form of the 23 question. 24 Q. Correct? 25 A. I think "they should have and would 243 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055491 1 have" is your presumption. I think the fact that 2 it may have happened is a possibility. 3 I think that the communication may not 4 have been directly to Anniston but through our 5 management structure to the plant management 6 structure. But I'm not willing to say it should 7 have or would have. I mean, that depends. 8 Q. Well, I think we established earlier 9 that, that you developed the Monsanto method, 10 correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. You perfected the Monsanto method, 13 correct? 14 A. We optimized it, yes. 15 Q. And that you in St. Louis were at least 16 as good as any other Monsanto lab and for much of 17 the time better than any other Monsanto lab, 18 correct? 19 MR. PRAUSE: Object to the form. 20 A. I don't, I think we have established 21 that we were able to analyze PCBs and do it as 22 accurately as anybody. 23 Q. All right. And a two-to-four-times 24 lower level than you were finding on the same 25 sample is a significant undercount, will you agree 244 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055492 1 with that? 2 A. It is a measurable difference. And the 3 objective of the measurable difference was to 4 ensure that the laboratory in question was using 5 the appropriate approach for the sample in 6 question. 7 It is obvious, at least from my reading 8 of that particular paragraph, that the peak height 9 technique as applied to that particular sample or 10 samples was not appropriate. And we demonstrated 11 to them and told them they needed to start, now 12 that once they knew it, they needed to understand 13 this . 14 Now whether or not we communicated that 15 in a letter or something like that, or a memo, or 16 whether or not we called them up and had a 17 conference call and talked them through it and 18 then explained to them how to do it and pointed 19 out -- as I pointed out in the method you had me 20 read where it had four different cases in there - 21 that perhaps because of their experience they had 22 mis- -- they had chosen the improper case. 23 Q. Okay. And what I'm asking you is I 24 think you agree with me that they should have 25 corrected their method to more accurately report 245 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055493 1 the data? 2 A. One would assume that they would if we 3 understood their goal. 4 Q. Okay. And you believe that somehow you 5 would have instructed them to change their method? 6 A. No. we probably wouldn't have ordered 7 them to do anything. We would have appraised them 8 of the situation and told them of the differences 9 and let them decide based on their own information 10 what they should do. 11 For all we know, they could have had an 12 agreement with somebody that this is the way they 13 were supposed to calculate it and, before they 14 could change it, they would have to appraise those 15 individuals of that and why they were doing it. 16 And then those individuals would have to say, 17 "Yeah, that sounds good, we'll accept that." 18 And then they also would have to know 19 for sure, well, what impact did it have so the 20 earlier numbers could be related to the newer 21 numbers? And they might even want to go back and 22 look at the earlier numbers and see whether or not 23 case one, two, three or four were the appropriate 24 ones there and whether or not there were issues 25 there, too. 246 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055494 1 So I think there's a quantum jump here 2 that you're asking me to make that I don't make. 3 Q. Let me object, nonresponsive. 4 Let me just ask you whether you 5 recollect ever instructing Anniston to change 6 their method? Do you have a recollection of that? 7 A. I never instructed Anniston to change 8 their method. It was not my position to instruct 9 them to do so. 10 Q. Do you have a recollection of anyone 11 instructing them to change their method? 12 A. Nope, I do not. 13 Q. Do you have a recollection of anyone 14 advising them that in order to be accurate they 15 need to change their method? 16 A. Yes. I think that what we read here 17 advises them of that. 18 Q. Other than what we read, do you have a 19 recollection of anybody ever telling them to 20 change their method to be more accurate? 21 A. Not a specific one. But -- well, no. 22 Q. Do you have a general recollection? All 23 right. Do you know whether or not they changed 24 their method? 25 A. No. 247 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055495 1 Q. All right. 2 MR. PRAUSE: Larry, I would just like to 3 note for the record that the last page this 4 document is not sequentially numbered in 5 order among the MONS documents; it's 0400070, 6 which, whereas the first page is 04289. 7 MR. WRIGHT: Let me see it, I might have 8 stuck two documents together. Yeah. That's 9 the first page of another document. 10 MR. PRAUSE: I guess we should note for 11 the record that that's being removed from 12 Exhibit 6. 13 MR. WRIGHT: Exhibit 6 is a five-page 14 document sequentially numbered 044289 through 15 044293. 16 MR. PRAUSE: And when you are at a good 17 point I would like to request a quick break, 18 it is coming up on 5:00. We have no problem 19 continuing into the evening, but I would like 20 to get a break. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't we take a break 22 and discuss what we're going to do. 23 MR. PRAUSE: Sure. 24 MR. WRIGHT: Because I still don't know 25 how we're going to do all the things we need 248 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055496 1 to do. So let's go off the record. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 3 4:51. 4 (Recess taken.) 5 (Mr. Shields leaves the deposition) 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the record 7 at 5:15. 8 MR. WRIGHT: While we were off the 9 record we decided that, despite mine and 10 probably everybody else's misgivings, the 11 best thing for us to do is probably continue 12 tomorrow. And I'm, we're going to go a 13 little bit further today and then come back 14 and try to complete tomorrow. And to be 15 honest, I'm not sure we'll complete tomorrow 16 but we'll do the best we can. 17 MR. PRAUSE: Do you want to set a time 18 right now to start tomorrow? 19 MR. WRIGHT: To start? 20 MR. PRAUSE: Or do you want to leave 21 that -22 MR. WRIGHT: Let's leave that until we 23 see where we get in the next little bit. 24 MR. PRAUSE: Sure. 25 MR. WRIGHT: I do want to -- 249 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055497 1 THE WITNESS: I believe that's part of 2 Exhibit 4. 3 MR. WRIGHT: Yes . 4 THE WITNESS: Or it may have come from 5 your records. 6 MR. WRIGHT: We'll put it back through 7 there. 8 THE WITNESS: It may have been one you 9 didn't have time to find. I don't know 10 which. 11 MR. WRIGHT: No, it is from Exhibit 4. 12 It is not one of mine. 13 THE WITNESS: Okay. 14 MR. WRIGHT: The, I just want to say, 15 and for whatever it is worth, I'm concerned 16 about the report, the expert report, in this 17 case. This expert report is a 18 page-and-a-half and in my opinion basically 19 doesn't give any opinions. It simply says 20 what subjects the witness will talk about. 21 BY MR. WRIGHT: 22 Q. I would like to know, Dr. Tucker, what 23 expert opinions do you have that relate to this 24 case? 25 A. That's a question to me? 250 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055498 1 Q. Yes, sir. 2 A. At the moment onthe record? 3 Q. Yes, sir. 4 A. The expertopinions I have are based on 5 my expertise; and my expertise in the areas that I 6 can talk to are outlinedin areasonable format I 7 think in the expert report that you have been 8 provided. 9 If you have specific objections, I'm 10 sure we can take it under consideration to do 11 something about it; but at the moment that's kind 12 of how I feel about it. 13 MR. PRAUSE: Obviously, it's a subject 14 you are free to bring up with me or any of 15 the attorneys you want. If you want to ask 16 Scott questions about his report itself, 17 that's fine. 18 MR. WRIGHT: Well -- 19 MR. PRAUSE: But I don't think he's the 20 person to resolve the procedural issues. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Here's the problem we've 22 got. 23 MR. PRAUSE: Are you talking to me or 24 Scott? 25 MR. WRIGHT: I'm talking and to him but 251 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2' WATER PCB-SD0000055499 1 mostly to you right now. 2 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 3 MR. WRIGHT: By "you," I don't mean you 4 specifically, I mean you as the lawyers for 5 Monsanto. 6 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah. 7 MR. WRIGHT: Because you and I just met 8 this morning. 9 The only information we have about the 10 expert opinions of Mr. Tucker or Dr. Tucker 11 are contained in the expert report. And the 12 expert report, as I indicated, is a 13 page-and-a-half document, it comprises six 14 paragraphs. The first paragraph tells who he 15 is. The second paragraph tells where he went 16 to college. The third paragraph says he has 17 a lot of experience. The fourth paragraph 18 says he has published numerous papers. The 19 fifth paragraph says, in forming his 20 opinions, he has relied on his education and 21 so forth. And the sixth paragraph says, 22 quote, "I will testify from a scientific and 23 analytical perspective regarding the details 24 of Monsanto's response to the discoveries of 25 the international scientific community in the 252 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055500 late 1960 and early '70s regarding the persistence and accumulation of PCBs in the environment." In other words, that says what he is going to talk about. MR. PRAUSE: Right. MR. WRIGHT: Doesn't say what his opinions are. MR. PRAUSE: Right. MR. WRIGHT: The next paragraph says, "I will testify as to my involvement in the development and use of analytical equipment," blah, blah, blah. Again talks about what he is going to talk about but it doesn't give what his opinions are. MR. PRAUSE: Right. MR. WRIGHT: And then it says, "As necessary, I will also furnish background information regarding analytical techniques and the behavior and properties of PCBs." Again it testifies, it says, I will talk about such-and-such, but it doesn't give any oprnrons MR. PRAUSE: Right. MR. WRIGHT: And so to that extent this 253 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2 WATER PCB-SD0000055501 1 report gives us no expert opinions, in our 2 opinion. 3 MR. PRAUSE: I completely understand 4 what you are saying. 5 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 6 MR. PRAUSE: And I think we can 7 supplement that report and it would be 8 appropriate for us to do so at this point. 9 As you know, different levels of detail 10 are reguired in different jurisdictions in 11 that sort of a report, and I believe that a 12 similar report was used in the Abernathy and 13 Dyer cases. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Frankly, I think it was 15 identical. 16 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah, it very well might 17 have been. 18 MR. WRIGHT: Right. 19 MR. PRAUSE: Now as you know, a lot of 20 what Scott has been talking about today is 21 beyond the ken of the average lay person. 22 MR. WRIGHT: And I recognize that he is 23 a mixed fact and expert witness. My concern 24 and the reason I'm bringing it up at this 25 point -- 254 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055502 1 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah. 2 MR. WRIGHT: -- is because I'm taking 3 his deposition presumably as a fact witness 4 and an expert witness. 5 MR. PRAUSE: Right. 6 MR. WRIGHT: And if I'm going to 7 continue tomorrow and he has additional 8 opinions that are not simply historical 9 recitations, I want some advance warning 10 about what they are. 11 MR. PRAUSE: I think that's fair. And I 12 think what we will wind up being able to tell 13 you -- and I can probably confirm this with a 14 phone call -- is that Scott is primarily a 15 fact witness here and we have designated him 16 an expert out of an abundance of caution 17 because the matters that he is testifying 18 about are highly technical. 19 I think that Monsanto has no intention 20 in this case of using Scott to testify about 21 modern-day, present issues as far as analysis 22 of samples in the Anniston area. 23 I think that, if he is going to give any 24 opinion, it would relate exclusively to what 25 happened in the early '60s -- I mean, I'm 255 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055503 1 sorry, in the late '60s and the early 70s; it 2 would be along the lines of commenting on 3 the, you know, that it was very challenging 4 at that time to use the equipment to analyze 5 for trace quantities of PCBs in environmental 6 matrixes. 7 And that, to some extent, because he is 8 personally involved in that, that is factual 9 testimony but it arguably crosses over the 10 border into expert testimony also. 11 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Will you do this for 12 me then? Will you make that phone call and 13 give me that assurance? 14 MR. PRAUSE: Yes, I will be glad to do 15 that on the record. 16 MR. WRIGHT: Because that's going to 17 determine how I prepare tonight. In other 18 words, do I have to prepare for a history 19 lesson plus new scientific opinions or do I 20 just have to prepare for a history lesson? 21 MR. PRAUSE: Right. I think that's a 22 fair request. 23 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 24 MR. PRAUSE: And if you want, I can do 25 it after you ask some more questions, or I 256 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055504 1 can go ahead and do it immediately. 2 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Why don't we do it 3 at the end? Well, are you going to have 4 somebody you can get in touch with? 5 MR. PRAUSE: Most likely, you know, to 6 be completely safe I can go ahead and do it 7 now. 8 MR. WRIGHT: Why don' t you do it now 9 just to make sure you get hold of somebody 10 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah. 11 MR. WRIGHT: The other thing, just so 12 that you know, the other thing that I have a 13 concern about is the documents that were 14 included in the notice. And - 15 MR. PRAUSE: What documents were 16 included with the notice? 17 MR. WRIGHT: Well, the documents 18 provided to the deponent in connection with 19 the above - 20 MR. PRAUSE: You mean the documents 21 requested? I'm sorry. 22 MR. WRIGHT: The documents requested. 23 We got number one, I believe. 24 I assume that Exhibit 4 comprises all of 25 the documents that were provided to you in 257 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055505 1 connection with this case. Is that fair, 2 doctor? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes, I think that's has 4 been asked before and answered before. 5 MR. WRIGHT: I think it has, too. 6 THE WITNESS: But to agree with it, yes. 7 MR. WRIGHT: But because we're dealing 8 with it now. 9 THE WITNESS: No, that's okay. 10 MR. PRAUSE: That's fine. That's 11 consistent with my understanding also. 12 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah. And by the way, I'm 13 reading from Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 1, 14 which i the Notice to Produce Documents at 15 Deposition. 16 MR. PRAUSE: Right. I will say I 17 believe that Monsanto's attorneys received 18 that for the first time yesterday and it was 19 faxed to me, I hadn't seen it before today. 20 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah. And I don't know 21 whether that's true or not, because it came 22 from Bob's office and whatever it is, it is. 23 Let me just tell you the documents that we 24 don't have. 25 MR. PRAUSE: Sure. 258 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055506 1 MR. WRIGHT: So that tonight you can 2 determine whether or not they exist. I think 3 what you are probably going to tell me is, is 4 that most of them don't exist. 5 MR. PRAUSE: Probably. 6 MR. WRIGHT: But I want to bring it up 7 and give you the opportunity to get them if 8 they do exist. 9 "Any and all documents reviewed by the 10 deponent in reaching his opinions and 11 conclusions." Again, Exhibit No. 4 is that 12 universe plus your general knowledge of PCBs 13 and analytical techniques and so forth, 14 correct ? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah. I mean, who knows 17 what he reviewed -- 18 MR. WRIGHT: I know. 19 MR. PRAUSE: -- in 1969 and those 20 documents are a part of his background. 21 MR. WRIGHT: I understand. 22 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 23 MR. WRIGHT: Then number three is, "Any 24 and all documents, specifically including any 25 scientific, medical, engineering or technical 259 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055507 1 publications relied upon you in reaching your 2 opinions and conclusions." 3 I have a little bit of concern about 4 that because I think you may tell me that 5 there are scientific publications that you 6 reviewed years ago that you are relying on in 7 reaching your testimony today. Is that true 8 or not true? 9 THE WITNESS: I'm sure it is, in terms 10 especially for the fact portion of it. 11 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 12 MR. PRAUSE: And obviously if we could, 13 if we could, if Scott couldn't specifically 14 say, well, this was something, then we can, 15 to the extent it is in the public domain, 16 obviously you are, you have equal access to 17 it. To the extent it is not in public 18 domain -- 19 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah, but I don't know what 20 he relied on, see, that's the problem. 21 MR. PRAUSE: I'm saying maybe neither 22 does he. He may not be able to specifically 23 say, "Well, here's what I read." You know 24 that he did read a number of scholarly 25 articles I'm sure in the late '60s and early 260 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055508 1 '70s; but as far as being able to put a 2 finger on one and say, "Yeah, that's one," 3 you know, to separate it from his collective 4 understanding is maybe something that's not 5 feasible. 6 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Well 7 MR. PRAUSE: And if it is, 8 certainly endeavor to, if you want, ask him 9 right now; and if he can put his finger on 10 any, we'll endeavor to supply them to you. 11 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Tell you what, let 12 me go, the last three are going to be the 13 easiest. And then I will come back and I 14 will ask him that question and then can you 15 go back your phone call. Okay? 16 MR. PRAUSE: Okay. 17 MR. WRIGHT: Item number four is, "Any 18 and all correspondence, e-mail, notes, 19 memoranda and other writings, documents or 20 things generated by the witness in connection 21 with his employment as an expert witness or 22 anticipated testimony in this action." 23 MR. PRAUSE: I'm aware of nothing other 24 than what you have. 25 MR. WRIGHT: No correspondence? You all 261 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055509 1 have never sent him a letter, he's never sent 2 you a letter? 3 MR. PRAUSE: We've spoke own the phone a 4 few times, and that's it. 5 MR. WRIGHT: You haven't made any notes? 6 THE WITNESS: No. I have not made any 7 notes. 8 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. "Any and all 9 documents relating to any billing or time 10 records"? 11 THE WITNESS: I haven't billed anything. 12 MR. PRAUSE: We haven't received a bill 13 from Scott for his work on this case. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 15 BY MR. WRIGHT: 16 Q. Do you anticipate billing Monsanto for 17 your time? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. At what rate? 20 A. I haven't really billed anybody this 21 year but my previous rate was 250 an hour. 22 MR. PRAUSE: And -- 23 A. And I need to qualify that - 24 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah. 25 A. -- to be fair to everybody. The 262 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055510 1 deposition portion of it or the testimony portion 2 of it, I don't bill for. I do bill for time to 3 get there, the time to be there, time to return, 4 costs associated with it. 5 And if there is any preparation work -- 6 for example, like yesterday when we sat around and 7 went through documents and things of that sort -- 8 I will bill for that. Today, I don't bill for. 9 Q. Okay. Well, other than getting here and 10 the ancillary things you mentioned? 11 A. Correct. And that's what I -- okay, I 12 can do it again to make it clear what I bill for 13 and what I don't bill for. 14 Q. Let's save that for tomorrow. 15 A. That would be fine. 16 MR. PRAUSE: So I think we're in 17 agreement then that there is nothing 18 responsive to, I don't know what the item 19 number of that is but, it is the one asking 20 for his notes and bills and file materials. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Right. 22 BY MR. WRIGHT: 23 Q. And then item six is a catchall. It 24 says, "Any and all documents and things within the 25 deponent's custody and control relating to his 263 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055511 1 employment as an expert witness and anticipated 2 testimony in this case." 3 And based upon your other answers, my 4 assumption is your answer to that is there is 5 nothing else. 6 A. That's correct. 7 MR. PRAUSE: That is correct for mine, 8 too. 9 Q. Okay. And so where we are left with is 10 the scientific, medical, engineering or technical 11 publications relied upon by Dr. Tucker in reaching 12 his opinions and conclusions in this matter. 13 Is there anything specific that you can 14 think of right now that is not contained in 15 Exhibit 4? 16 A. You know, it is hard to condense all the 17 experiences and things of that sort that form the 18 portion of the knowledge base and say that they 19 are all in Exhibit 4. 20 Which items I particularly rely on, most 21 of -- a lot of those are in there, the methods 22 that I wrote, the, there's some publications that 23 I published. 24 I believe also associated with the 25 expert report was a curriculum vitae. 264 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055512 1 Q. Yes. 2 A. And in that curriculum vitae there is a 3 publication list. And I would say certainly in 4 the past, I didn't take the CV and look up all the 5 publications and review them for this particular 6 deposition. 7 Q. Those are publications that you wrote? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And I understand that you may rely on 10 the things that you wrote. But really what this 11 is getting at is things that other people wrote 12 that you are relying on. And so I'm just 13 wondering if there is anything specific that you 14 can think of that's not included in Exhibit No. 4? 15 A. No. 16 MR. PRAUSE: I might volunteer, for 17 instance, I think that articles, some of the 18 early articles that were published obviously 19 Holmes and Tatton, Simmons, you know, those 20 things that he has even been questioned about 21 and that are referred to in some of these 22 documents, clearly he read them. You know. 23 If you wanted to go through and compile 24 a list of those we would cooperate with you 25 in getting copies of them for you. 265 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055513 1 THE WITNESS: But in terms of going 2 specifically back and reviewing 3 prepublications copies of Riesbourgh's 4 information, which I know I got - 5 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah. 6 THE WITNESS: -- and read very 7 carefully, point-by-point and 8 letter-by-letter. I mean, it was important. 9 I did not do that for this. But to say that 10 opinions I have, expert or otherwise, are not 11 based partially on that? 12 BY MR. WRIGHT: 13 Q. Well -- 14 A. The expert opinions that, that are 15 expert opinions when they occur really have a lot 16 to do with analytical chemistry, which is what I 17 am. 18 Q. I understand. 19 MR. PRAUSE: I guess it is a little 20 unusual to have an expert who formed his 21 opinions a long time ago. 22 A. Yeah. I, in other words, I've not been 23 presented for specific issues to say like happens 24 that an expert - 25 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't you go confirm 266 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055514 1 that he's not going to talk about anything 2 else? 3 MR. PRAUSE: Right. 4 MR. WRIGHT: And in the meantime let me 5 try to think up a solution to the resolution 6 of this -- 7 MR. PRAUSE: Sure. 8 MR. WRIGHT: -- problem that is raised 9 by item number three. 10 MR. PRAUSE: That's fine. I think maybe 11 the easiest way to do it is the cutoff date 12 for his employment, which I think he worked 13 for Monsanto until 1978. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Right. 15 MR. PRAUSE: We might be able to 16 stipulate on the record that he won't testify 17 about anything as an expert that happened 18 after he left the employment at Monsanto for 19 instance. Then you would have a very bright 20 line date. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't you go and check 22 on that and we'll see? 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record 24 at 5:33. 25 (Deposition resumed on the written 267 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055515 1 record but not utilizing the video tape:) 2 MR. WRIGHT: For the record, we have 3 asked the videographer to turn off because we 4 don't need him right now. 5 What I'm going to do -- we're waiting on 6 a phone call from somewhere. And what I'm 7 going to do while we're doing that is I'm 8 going to read into the record the beginning 9 Bates numbers of the documents that are 10 marked as Exhibit No. 4 so that we'll have a 11 record of them and then I'm going to request 12 that I be allowed to take the documents 13 tonight to look at them. 14 What's the matter? He wants the ending 15 Bates numbers as well? 16 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah, I mean, as long as we 17 have time to kill. 18 MR. WRIGHT: Well, The problem is -19 MR. PRAUSE: It's your call, it's your 20 record. 21 MR. WRIGHT: I would rather just do 22 the -23 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah, I just wanted to 24 through that out there. 25 MR. WRIGHT: -- beginning Bates numbers 268 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055516 1 because I think -- 2 THE WITNESS: When you get into some of 3 the documents they are quite thick so it is 4 going to go fast. 5 MR. WRIGHT: Let me try. I'll try 6 beginning and ending. Okay. 7 MONS 097069, one page. DSW 014582, one 8 page document. MONS 035902 through 035920. 9 And, Ms. Court Reporter, instead of 10 saying MONS or DSW, I'll just say M or D and 11 you will know that M means MONS and D means 12 DSW, okay? 13 THE REPORTER: Yes, sir. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. MONS 097458 is a 15 one-paged document. DSW 013946 is a one-page 16 document. MONS 097836 is a one page 17 document. DSW 014282 and 283. MONS 097058. 18 MONS 096517. DSW 147839. DSW 014094. 19 MONS 090103. DSW 147840. DSW 015043 through 20 45. MONS 097053 through 57. MONS 096512 21 through 514. 22 DSW 014271 through 275. MONS 096491. 23 MONS 057607 through 618. DSW 014247 through 24 248. DSW 014003 through 006. 25 DSW 006369 through 6372. MONS 096500. 269 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055517 1 MONS 096470. MONS 096469. MONS 098645 and 2 646. MONS 096454 and 55. MONS 098142. 3 MONS 096614 and 615. 4 DSW 023541 through 543. 5 DSW 013747. DSW 013629 and 013630 6 D014237 through 40. DSW 014236. 7 MONS 097270. DSW 013502 and 503. DSW 014536 8 through 538. 9 Where are they going to call, Marsh? 10 MR. PRAUSE: Right here. 11 MR. WRIGHT: MONS 096520 and 21 12 MONS 098680 and 81. DSW 014007. MONS 034570 13 through 596. 14 MR. PRAUSE: If you want a break, I'll 15 be glad to take over for you if you want to 16 pass the stack over. 17 MR., WRIGHT: I kind of have a rhythm 18 going. 19 MR., PRAUSE: Okay. 20 MR., WRIGHT: DSW 013804 and 805 . 21 DSW 014098 and 99.. MONS 088096. DSW 013504 22 through 506. DSW 013568 and 69. DSW 006368 23 through 6372. DSW 039232. DSW 013566. MONS 24 079347 through 079383. DSW 013145 and 146. 25 MONS 099200 through 202. DSW 038724. 270 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055518 1 MONS 098700. MONS 098699. MONS 096529 and 2 30. DSW 013625. MSW 100085 through 100120. 3 MONS 057469 through 478. MONS 059732 4 through 750. MONS 030667 through 669. 5 MONS 028738 through 755. MONS 099871 and 72. 6 MONS 043806 through -- it's a good thing 7 you had me do this because I found a mistake. 8 The beginning number is MONS 043806 and it 9 appears to go sequentially through to 875 but 10 then stapled on to it is a letter dated, I 11 mean a letter numbered as MONS 093497. 12 Do you want me to tear that off? 13 MR. PRAUSE: Yeah, might as well. It is 14 fine with me if you do. That's clearly a 15 mistake. 16 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. So the page we tore 17 off is 093497. 18 Next document, MONS 082646 through 654. 19 MONS 093254 through 61. MONS 072421 through 20 482. MONS 098676. MONS 021827 through 861. 21 MONS 066790 through 822. MONS 021815 through 22 826. MONS 067645 through 653. MONS 021462 23 through 480. MONS 021424 through 448. 24 MONS 067499 through 518. MONS 021384 through 25 394. MONS 036053 through 135. MONS 057433 271 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055519 1 through 441. MONS 034162 through 189. 2 MONS 042235 through 274. 3 And that I believe completes the stack. 4 Everything that was pulled out and not marked 5 was put back in and I believe the only thing 6 that was pulled out and marked is Exhibit 7 No. 3 . 8 MR. PRAUSE : Yes. 9 MR. WRIGHT : So 3 and 4, with 4 10 comprising the numbers that I just read off, 11 are all of the documents that were presented 12 this morning. 13 MR. PRAUSE : Correct. Off the record. 14 MR. WRIGHT : Let's go off the record. 15 (Recess taken.) 16 MR. WRIGHT : We're going back on the 17 record now after Mr. Prause has had a 18 discussion with some of his colleagues. And, 19 Mr. Prause, you have a statement about what 20 kind of testimony Dr. Tucker is going to be 21 asked to give? 22 MR. PRAUSE: That's correct, Mr. Wright. 23 You had concerns an the scope of 24 Dr. Tucker's expert testimony. And Monsanto 25 is willing to stipulate that Dr. Tucker will 272 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055520 1 not critique any of the ongoing or 2 modern-day, you know, I don't want to just 3 say present because obviously the work at 4 Anniston goes back into the early 1990s. 5 He will not critique any of the 6 analytical chemistry associated with the 7 present-day or, you know, in the 1990s or 8 1980s any of the remediation work, any of the 9 sampling, any of the litigation-related 10 sampling, blood sampling, environmental 11 sampling. He will not apply his analytical 12 chemistry expertise to critique or evaluate 13 those efforts. 14 MR. WRIGHT: Well, that takes a lot off 15 the table but I'm not sure that it tells me 16 what -- 17 MR. PRAUSE: What he will do? 18 MR. WRIGHT: What he will do, yes . 19 MR. PRAUSE: I can attempt to fill you 20 in on that if you would like. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 22 MR. PRAUSE: Obviously, Scott will 23 testify as an expert about historical 24 state-of -the-art and events that happened in 25 the late '60s and early 70s. We also are 273 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2' WATER PCB-SD0000055521 1 proffering him as an expert concerning 2 modern-day state-of-the-art for the analysis 3 of environmental samples for trace quantities 4 of various contaminants, primarily PCBs. 5 However, he will not apply that 6 knowledge or that expertise to critique any 7 of the analytical work associated with the 8 Anniston plant litigation or the Anniston 9 plant-related remediation. 10 So, for instance, Dr. Tucker might offer 11 an opinion about, you know, at present day 12 the theoretical challenges associated with 13 analyzing for contaminants in the 14 environment. But he won't take a piece of 15 data that has been generated in conjunction 16 with the Anniston plant remediation or the 17 Anniston plant litigation and say, "Here, 18 this data is good because of X or this data 19 is bad because of X." 20 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Let me tell you what 21 my position is going to be. 22 I anticipated and in all fairness I have 23 awareness of his historical opinions. 24 Because even though they are not set out in 25 the expert report, there is a lot of material 274 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055522 1 that has been provided that, that generally 2 tells me what his opinions were in the late 3 '60s and '70s and presumably still are 4 regarding that. 5 I have no hint whatsoever about what his 6 opinion is about today's methodology and 7 standards. And so to that extent, I think 8 we're going to object to him giving that kind 9 of testimony because we haven't been apprised 10 of it before his deposition. 11 MR. PRAUSE: Well, you are, of course, 12 entitled to lodge that objection. I think 13 Monsanto is -- obviously, you are also 14 entitled to ask Scott questions about his 15 more modern-day, you know, these modern-day 16 issues during this deposition to flesh it out 17 further. 18 I'm sure that Monsanto would also be 19 willing if you wanted to discuss 20 supplementing his expert report if you think 21 it's inadequate along those lines. 22 MR. WRIGHT: Let me ask the witness this 23 question; because, frankly, it is the 24 witness' knowledge that, I mean the witness' 25 testimony that we are talking about. 275 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055523 1 BY MR. WRIGHT: 2 Q. What opinions, if any, do you have about 3 modern-day analytical chemistry that relate to 4 this litigation but that do not relate to specific 5 samples and tests that have been done? If any. 6 A. I think the environmental type analysis 7 that is done today is a lot more sophisticated, a 8 lot more extensive, and a lot more practiced than 9 it ever was in the past. I also think that it is 10 done in a much more structured fashion in the 11 sense that it is required to do so because of the 12 regulatory and legal issues associated with it. 13 And so my opinion is, is that we are 14 really into a realm where we are dealing with 15 compliance versus science; and that at this point 16 in time in terms of regulatory procedures and 17 things of that sort, compliance wins. 18 So today, current practice is to use 19 standard operating procedures which are very 20 uniform and to ensure that the method helps 21 dictate the equivalency of the data from lab to 22 lab and the quality associated with it. And that 23 enough provisions are included in the information 24 that is generated for outside verification and/or 25 validation of that information. 276 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055524 1 I think more recently that that is 2 changing in the sense that the EPA is beginning to 3 embrace performance-based-based methodology. And 4 really what we did back in the area that I did 5 this type of analysis was performance-based versus 6 compliance-driven. 7 So I think the type of methods that are 8 used today are different; I think they are more 9 definitive; I think they are more standardized, 10 and I think they are more comparable. And I think 11 the conclusions that are drawn from the 12 information today after it has been evaluated and 13 verified are more conclusive and of more utility 14 to the legal community. 15 So that's kind of, I don't know if that 16 goes where you want me to go or? 17 Q. Well, no. Where I want you to go is I 18 want to know your opinions about modern-day 19 science, modern-day expertise that's within your 20 field that relates to this litigation. I need to 21 know your opinions now at the time of your 22 deposition. I object that I haven't been provided 23 your opinions before the deposition, and so now is 24 my opportunity: I'm asking you to tell me your 25 opinions. 277 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055525 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. Tomorrow we're going to talk about the 3 opinions that I was aware of. And, and, you know, 4 they will be, the half fact/half expert opinions 5 that we having talking about earlier. 6 But right now, if there are going to be 7 any new modern-day opinions, I would like to know 8 what they are. So if you have covered them in 9 your statement, then we're done. If there are 10 more that you need to add, then let's add them. 11 MR. PRAUSE: Let me interject and say I 12 think there's a little confusion now because 13 again Scott is a fact witness and an expert 14 witness in this case. And some of what we 15 are talking about isn't really so much a 16 matter of opinion; while arguably it is 17 knowledge,it is not opinion. 18 For instance, Monsanto would reserve the 19 right for Scott to testify generally about 20 how PCBs are analyzed for today. The nuts 21 and bolts. That is a matter not of opinion 22 but of knowledge. And I want to clarify that 23 for you. 24 MR. WRIGHT: No, that is expert 25 testimony, Marsh -- 278 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055526 1 MR. PRAUSE: I did not say it was not 2 expert testimony. But I say it is expert 3 testimony based on knowledge, not opinion. 4 So I just want to make sure we're on the same 5 page and I'm basically trying to give you 6 more disclosure about the way that Monsanto 7 intends to use Scott in this case. 8 I understood the position that you're in 9 and we're not trying to ambush you and I 10 think we're willing to agree that if you need 11 to schedule another deposition session with 12 Scott in the future to explore these opinions 13 that you were not prepared for that pertain 14 to modern-day general knowledge of the 15 analysis for PCBs then we're willing to do 16 that. 17 MR. WRIGHT: I really don't want to do 18 that. And the reason I don't want to do that 19 is, is because I have had his report for some 20 time; I have anticipated the historical 21 opinions that are reflected in his report; I 22 didn't see anything about any other opinions 23 in the modern-day in his report. 24 I'm staying another day at great expense 25 to myself. And if he has got modern-day 279 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055527 1 opinions -- first of all, I object to them 2 even now -- but I want to know what 3 modern-day opinions he has 4 He mentioned a couple of paragraphs 5 worth of opinions . You have mentioned in 6 addition to that that you may ask him the 7 nuts and bolts of how samples are analyzed 8 today. 9 MR. PRAUSE: Yes . 10 MR. WRIGHT: Is there anything else in 11 addition to that? 12 MR. PRAUSE: I mean, I do think, too, 13 agree that this is not an extensive expert 14 report. But I think implicit in discussing 15 the history of analytical chemistry is a 16 comparison of the past to the present. 17 Obviously, if you want to talk about how 18 something has evolved - 19 MR. WRIGHT: Well, he has already talked 20 about that. He has already told me about how 21 the present compares to the past. And in 22 addition to that, you have mentioned the nuts 23 an bolts of the procedures. 24 MR. PRAUSE: Correct. 25 BY MR. WRIGHT: 280 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055528 1 Q. Is there anything else in addition to 2 that, Dr. Tucker? 3 A. I'm sorry, you were talking to me? 4 Q. Yes, sir. 5 A. Okay, you guys were having, I apologize. 6 No, specifically analytical chemistry, 7 nothing outside my known area of expertise. 8 Q. Well, I don't know what all is within 9 your area of expertise. We have talked about two 10 things relating to modern-day: The matters that 11 you have mentioned, comparing modern-day to the 12 olden days, and we have talked about the nuts and 13 bolts of how samples are analyzed in the modern 14 day today. 15 Is there anything else other than those 16 two areas that relate to the modern day that you 17 are going to testify about in this case? 18 A. I think it sounds like that adequately 19 covers. 20 MR. WRIGHT: All right. I will see you 21 in the morning then. 22 MR. PRAUSE: Yes. Off the record. 23 (Thereupon, the deposition adjourned at 24 6:45 p.m., to reconvene at 9:30 a.m.. 25 Wednesday, August 2, 2000, at the same 281 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055529 1 address.) 2 3 (Transcript continues in sequence in 4 Volume II.) 5 6 7 282 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055530 [&-11] & & 2:3,8,13,19 0 006 269:24 006368 270:22 006369 269:25 013145 270:24 013502 270:7 013504 270:21 013566 270:23 013568 270:22 013625 271:2 013629 270:5 013630 270:5 013747 270:5 013804 270:20 013946 269:15 014003 269:24 014007 270:12 014094 269:18 014098 270:21 014236 270:6 014247 269:23 014271 269:22 014282 269:17 014536 270:7 014582 269:7 015043 269:19 Transcript Word Index 021384 271:24 021424 271:23 021462 271:22 021815 271:21 021827 271:20 023541 270:4 028738 271:5 030 113:11 030667 271:4 034162 272:1 034570 270:12 035902 269:8 035920 269:8 036053 271:25 037992 3:14 144:7 037993 3:14 144:7 038724 270:25 039232 270:23 0400070 248:5 042235 272:2 04289 248:6 043806 271:6,8 0440 1:1 4:11 044289 3:21 238:25 248:14 044293 3:21 248:15 057433 271:25 057469 271:3 057607 269:23 059732 271:3 066790 271:21 067499 271:24 067645 271:22 072421 271:19 079347 148:1 270:24 079362 205:6 079365 209:25 079372 211:14 079383 148:7 270:24 082646 271:18 088096 270:21 090103 269:19 093254 271:19 093497 271:11,17 096454 270:2 096469 270:1 096470 270:1 096491 269:22 096500 269:25 096512 269:20 096517 269:18 096520 270:11 096529 271:1 096614 270:3 097053 269:20 097058 269:17 097069 269:7 097270 270:7 097458 269:14 097836 269:16 098142 270:2 098645 270:1 098676 271:20 098680 270:12 098699 271:1 098700 271:1 099200 270:25 099871 271:5____________________ 1 1 1:1 3:8 4:2,5 6:2 86:21,22 118:21 122:4 124:4 149:2 194:8 199:22 200:12,15 258:13 1:10 95:23 1:18 95:19,24 10 3:1281:12,12 191:3 232:18 10:29 2:22 4:15 100 53:25 86:3 162:5 170:21 171:15,16 172:20 173:2,3 173:20 174:14,20 175:19 175:23 176:8 177:14 178:17,18,22 179:1 180:2 180:13 182:11 201:11,18 201:25 100085 271:2 100120 271:2 100th 171:16 173:2,10,11 1010 2:4 10th 173:13 11 50:1 163:23 195:18 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055531 [11:06-441] 11:06 15 (cont.) 1971 (cont.) 38:1 99:17 113:4 170:3 187:7 237:2 11:14 16 1978 38:4 50:1 51:5 52:1 99:17 267:13 111 113:15 187:5 1980s 2:4 1600 273:8 12 2:9 1990s 86:23 162:3,4 163:8 168:15 18 273:4,7 209:12 50:19 113:19 130:23 1st 12:19 131:10 132:21 188:2 2:21 4:5 95:18,19 184 2 1242 3:18 2 163:21 164:14 165:6,8 189 168:4 169:5 172:25 190:24 272:1 3:11 6:13 43:14,18 86:22 114:1 118:15 194:11 192:8 209:18 212:15,21,23 19 200:11,12 281:25 213:8 215:10,23 216:13 98:23 185:17 237:19 2:18 232:15 242:21 1930s 143:11 1248 200:5 209:18 198:4 1953 2:30 143:14 125 187:3,5 197:18,22 2:38 163:11,12 1954 143:14 1254 187:8 196:7 200:22 20 173:5 209:19 216:13 232:15 196 174:17 50:3,16 52:18 193:18 200 1260 1960 243:10 173:7 209:19 216:13 253:1 2000 1268 1960s 1:1 2:22 4:5 92:12 281:25 173:7 13 154:13 1966 201 2:20 4:13 149:1 105:6 202 1-3 1967 270:25 3:23 32:12 36:23 41:16 42:8 209 13145 106:18 87:15,21 156:11 162:2 234:25 1968 163:6 173:15 135 32:5,6 41:11,14 68:24,25 21 271:25 69:1 79:15 87:25 92:12 209:12 270:11 1355 98:23 113:13,19 130:23 240 2:9 131:10 132:21 133:17 3:20 14 138:7,9,15,16 174:17 248 50:1 191:22 175:18,23 179:25 182:17 269:24 1400 198:12201:9 25 2:14 1969 86:21 162:13 144 93:18,23 96:2 117:15 250 3:15 123:24 124:23 126:9,24 262:21 146 141:10 149:1 175:23 182:6 274 270:24 259:19 272:2 147758 197 27420 3:19 184:7 239:13 2:14 147781 1970 275 3:19 184:8 149:2 215:25 216:1,2 269:22 147839 222:19 226:24 227:9 229:5 283 269:18 229:14,16 236:2,24 237:20 269:17 147840 1970/1971 2970 269:19 237:16 3:18 184:9 15 1971 49:21,22 50:19 51:18 52:1 148:22 157:12 234:24 3 3 3:13 32:6 41:14,21 50:10 50:11 86:22 99:4,5 112:22 113:1 114:5 121:3 127:4,19 129:3 144:16 194:13235:2 272:7,9 3/12/71 239:15 3/15/54 3:19 3:29 190:6 3:33 190:9 30 5:15,19 240:24 271:2 300 2:14201:18 30309 2:9 30th 2:19 32 109:22 112:4,8 33 35:16 94:4 109:22 192:4,7 35th 148:21,21 378- 5380 2:15 379- 9558 2:15 394 271:25___________________ 4 4 3:8,15 86:22 114:7 121:6 130:6 134:11 144:4,12,22 145:8,12 190:23 235:4,5,6 235:14 238:23 250:2,11 257:24 259:11 264:15,19 265:14 268:10 272:9,9 4:51 249:3 40 270:6 400 243:10 402 96:15 154:19,20 404 2:10,10 441 272:1 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055532 [448 - accentuation] 448 271:23 45 269:20 478 271:3 478-4422 2:5 478-5015 2:5 480 271:23 482 271:20________________ 5 5 3:18,23 86:22 121:8,12 130:18 183:23,24 184:7 190:15 191:4 200:14,16 203:9 5:00 248:18 5:15 249:7 5:33 267:24 50 55:2 162:13 50/50 52:2 503 270:7 506 270:22 50s 97:6 512 2:5 514 269:21 518 271:24 523 2:5 53 163:7 185:18,19 538 270:8 543 270:4 55 270:2 56,000 103:6 57 269:20 5750 69- 13 154:16 148:10,23______________ 596 270:13 5how 50:6 5if 74:23 5part 77:9 5reviewed 75:24 5that's 55:22 5then 34:9___________________ 7 7/31/00 3:8 7/68 113:12 7:00 26:1 70 218:1,2 222:16 70- 1 148:10,23 70s 239:22 253:1 256:1 261:1 273:25 275:3 6 71 6 162:19 218:1 237:20 3:4,11,20,23 86:22 236:2 239:19 236:24 240:13,15 248:12 71- 35 248:13 148:8,20 205:8 6:45 72 281:24 271:5 60 750 209:14 271:4 60s 755 255:25 256:1 260:25 271:5 273:25 275:3 78701 61 2:4_________ 271:19 8 615 8 270:3 3:10 187:3 200:16 618 269:23 805 270:20 63 81 155:2 166:8,10 270:12 6372 82 269:25 270:23 646 9:12 822 270:2 271:21 653 826 271:22 271:22 654 271:18 84 105:7 669 861 271:4 271:20 67 875 32:1533:1341:10 68 271:9 881-3007 42:13 46:10,14 55:13 56:23 2:10 57:3,4,5,10,11 66:12 79:9 881-8900 80:8 92:14,16 135:25 182:6 2:10 69 92:14,15,16 93:13 123:6,10 140:21,22,24 179:25 201:9 218:1,2 222:16 270:22 9 9:00 25:15 9:30 281:24 910 2:15,15 92 9:22 96 1:1 4:11 97 54:3 98 54:3 99 3:13 54:3 270:21__________ a a.m. 2:22 187:14,18 188:11 281:24 abernathy 8:4,8 254:12 ability 37:16 46:22 81:24 112:7 161:15,16234:4 able 36:9 43:23 87:2,4 149:19 149:20 170:17 181:12,13 181:14 184:19 196:7 244:21 255:12 260:22 261:1 267:15 abreast 77:10 absolute 176:9 194:1,2 195:19 196:2 243:5 absolutely 69:2 108:21,25 137:22 139:24,25 204:22 242:15 absorbed 181:16 absorbent 159:25 absorption 33:18 35:1,19 39:1 42:12 43:6 46:19 48:12,18 79:3,5 156:23 194:14 abundance 255:16 academic 145:21 accentuation 167:20 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055533 [accept - analyzing] accept adem agreements amount 246:17 23:1 238:16 6:7 18:8 34:5 43:25 81:8 85:4 acceptable adequately agrees 85:20,22,23 156:18 166:19 20:8 70:21,22 145:13 199:8 281:18 87:10 189:23 190:20 192:4 193:8 232:24 adhere agricultural 194:25 195:7 206:2 208:11 access 231:21 91:9,15,16 210:21,21 214:21 216:9,11 260:16 adjourned ahead 216:15 accomplished 281:23 36:1541:19 148:4 164:11 amounts 36:21,23 adjust 213:5 241:17257:1,6 216:14 accumulated 176:3 air analyses 16:21 adjustments 3:13 113:5,20 131:13,14 226:25 233:10 accumulation 36:14 132:8 178:25 182:6,10,16 analysis 253:2 administrative 189:24 190:21 192:8,17 17:13,23 18:8 19:24 20:1,5 accurate 105:14 106:4 193:23 194:5,9,11 195:1,7 20:7 24:23 43:21 46:4 5:23 6:9 10:8 22:8 27:12 adopted 195:22 196:5 197:8,17 48:23 53:19,21 55:11 56:1 42:7 74:7 202:19 212:8 194:20 198:5,12,18,20 199:1 67:6 72:13 88:15,21 91:5 230:23 232:11 233:24 advance 201:16 238:5 92:5,7 93:5,18,24 98:19 243:21 247:14,20 255:9 al 134:23 135:17 137:12 accurately advantage 1:1 4:8 148:12 149:15,17 163:2 139:21 182:23 244:22 36:4 alabama 170:8 211:6,8 223:8,16 245:25 advent 1:1 4:1023:1 29:5,13 187:1 224:5,7 232:7 233:16 achieve 134:18 229:18,24 230:2 236:1,5 242:17 255:21 274:2 276:6 170:17 171:14,15 advisable 237:25 238:2,8,19 277:5 279:15 acid 199:23 albino analytical 152:25 192:18,21 195:22 advises 211:14 14:3 16:6 17:7 33:1,4,23 acquire 247:17 alcohol 34:23,24 35:15,16 39:10 36:9 77:10 advising 170:1 40:11,20 43:14,17 45:10,23 acquired 247:14 alcoholic 47:11 48:8 49:1,3 58:24 77:12 173:21 afraid 152:24 60:16 67:5 72:22,25 73:1 acquiring 10:5 92:1 186:9 aliquot 73:23 96:3 97:25 103:17 33:21 afternoon 86:1 113:22 116:13 117:7 118:1 acronym 9:19 10:21 allow 119:12 121:22 122:1,8,11 199:13 agencies 28:7 69:19 204:15 213:18 124:7,8,24 125:10 126:1 acronyms 120:22 121:2 127:4,20,24 allowable 127:5,11,22 128:1,1,19 199:14 128:18 130:1 134:6 227:1,5 199:15,20,22 129:10 130:11,15 133:23 action 227:7,12 228:5,14,21,24,25 allowed 136:5,7 146:20,21 147:24 261:22 231:8 160:9 268:12 148:8,9,21,23,25 149:1,24 active agency alluded 150:20 156:15 185:24 167:4,8 16:10 229:9 230:22 231:2 156:8 198:1 199:12 205:7 252:23 actual agency's aloud 253:12,19 259:13 266:16 3:16 25:17 36:16 47:1 230:22 69:20 273:6,11 274:7 276:3 83:14 134:24 151:10 ago alter 280:15 281:6 adam 51:19 92:20,25 109:23 179:14 analyze 30:9,10 112:4,9 175:10 180:20 alteration 33:15,24 43:19 53:7,10,13 add 200:12 238:7 260:6 266:21 165:15 53:16 54:1 71:9 72:23 45:15 54:15 278:10,10 agree altered 75:14 79:18 80:14 87:13 added 82:21 92:16 168:19,22,24 156:22 214:13 215:1 135:14 140:16 153:22 169:11 194:24 196:15 243:9 232:17 194:21 244:21 256:4 adding 244:25 245:24 258:6 altering analyzed 127:21 279:10 280:13 151:19 33:7 71:7 222:8,10 243:6 addition agreed alumni 278:20 280:7 281:13 54:14 280:6,11,22 281:1 44:15 137:18 145:2 227:25 94:24 analyzing additional agreement ambush 16:7 54:8 73:2 74:11 75:16 71:2,23 186:13 243:6 255:7 3:17 5:6 233:3 237:6 279:9 75:17 78:10 96:3 150:23 address 246:12 263:17 amenable 274:13 282:1 49:8 83:3 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055534 [ancillary - associated] ancillary anyway arbitrary asked (cont.) 136:10 263:10 175:6 207:7 107:19 109:5 110:2,3,9 animal apologize area 111:12,13 122:21 123:1 151:23 212:18213:8 10:19 11:1939:18 152:22 14:14 17:8,13,23 18:10 125:22 131:2,22 133:2,3,5 animals 211:20,21 212:22 222:14 19:11 32:19 33:17 36:3 133:8 146:16 147:9,14,16 114:19 115:17 130:10 224:15 241:16 281:5 44:17 55:12 73:22 130:21 147:19,22 179:10,14 135:10,13212:18214:18 apparatus 139:2 158:2 174:18 204:5 182:15 202:4,16 227:25 anniston 150:19,19 193:25 194:6 205:19 206:2,10 208:6,10 242:10 258:4 268:3 272:21 7:16 8:22 9:5 16:17 17:5,8 apparent 208:13 215:12 243:1,7 asking 17:23 18:10,11,19 19:11 200:13 255:22 277:4 281:7,9 11:13,16 26:23,24 27:1,8 20:16,24 21:6,10,15,18 apparently areas 27:14,1451:1658:1068:19 22:3,22 23:10 29:21 187:1 56:2 133:10 114:19 115:17 119:23 73:6 74:15 84:9 88:24 188:13 189:20 195:1 appearances 157:24 251:5 281:16 90:16 91:19 92:3 93:1 96:6 223:11,13,16 224:9,12,16 2:1 argon 96:9 98:1 104:3,4 106:21 224:18,21,23 225:1 226:17 appeared 156:1 108:2,5,7 110:25 112:5 229:16 233:14 236:1,17,19 15:19 arguably 123:19 133:4 174:10,13 242:18,19,22,24 243:19 appearing 256:9 278:16 175:12,14,16 176:17,18,21 244:4 247:5,7 255:22 273:4 68:19 209:22 arguing 180:22 181:5 184:18 185:6 274:8,8,16,17 appears 126:12,14 147:11,12 186:18 220:3 228:11 answer 50:18 99:9 118:14 199:23 argument 229:15 241:25 245:23 5:9 17:16 18:3,4 21:1 23:22 205:6 271:9 178:4 247:2 263:19 277:24 24:9,11 28:4 35:25 51:23 append argumentative asks 60:14,14,1561:1464:7 145:7 126:10 73:24 69:23,23 72:14,21,21 73:22 applied aroclor aspect 73:24 74:7,18 80:1,17,19 47:12,15,20,22 48:1,4 3:1954:11,11 81:17 116:1 165:25 80:21 81:24 94:11 101:21 76:24 183:4,5 240:21,22 116:12,14 163:21 164:14 aspects 101:23 104:13,16,18,20 245:9 164:24 165:6,8,18,24 169:5 132:23 133:7 106:7,8,25 107:2,20 122:15 apply 172:24 173:5 178:1 184:9 assess 123:18 125:23 126:19 196:25 273:11 274:5 186:16 189:9,15,19,22,23 69:22 114:7 115:25 117:6 132:12 133:10 158:13 appraisal 190:20,24 192:3,8 193:8 117:25 136:5 177:3 178:8 179:16 180:19 56:16 195:1,7,15,16,20 196:3 assessing 180:22 181:6 186:15 201:4 appraise 197:7,8,17 198:5,12,25,25 122:7 202:8,23 224:14 227:21 246:14 199:24 200:5,6,8,13,20 assign 264:4 appraised 201:3 210:2,11 211:16 58:15 answered 58:6 60:21 72:1 246:7 212:15,20,23 213:7 215:16 assigned 28:3 67:15 71:19 93:2 appreciate 215:23 216:12 236:19 35:4 66:17 75:9 121:18,20 107:20 125:24 135:23 28:6 73:7 107:2 204:22 242:12,20 243:3 121:21 122:7 179:5 202:9,17 237:19 apprised aroclors assignment 258:4 70:7 275:9 54:18 100:7 113:24 114:3,6 33:16 34:14 35:7 37:8,10 answering approach 120:19 135:10 170:21 38:8,10,12,16,17,25 39:6 27:13 75:9 111:2 180:23 245:5 193:5,6 194:9 200:25 201:6 42:11 46:16,19 53:4 55:15 238:15 appropriate 209:10 210:5,6 55:17 63:2,14 64:16 68:10 answers 14:11 19:4 34:3 44:12 82:7 art 71:24 73:9,12,16,18,21,25 73:21 81:2,4 123:13,13 135:13 180:25 181:2 234:5 34:2 36:1 138:1 154:13 74:3,4,24 75:5 174:14 178:6 179:20 229:3 245:5,10 246:23 254:8 273:24 274:2 assimilation 264:3 approximately articles 141:2 anticipate 93:16 102:22 103:13 104:9 260:25 265:17,18 assist 24:13 262:16 approximating aryl 188:8 anticipated 201:10 43:14,18 assisted 261:22 264:1 274:22 april asked 223:15 279:20 9:12 13:12,1220:15,1923:21 assisting anybody aquatic 24:15 34:1 58:7,24 59:7 46:16 63:13 130:14 188:24 21:20 60:6,13,15 62:6 63:15 associated 224:20,23 228:5 233:15 aqueous 65:25 66:18,23 72:3,17 51:10 59:12 82:13 95:14 238:19 244:22 247:19 39:14,20,23,25 45:12 74:1,10,17 75:18,21 77:13 101:9 122:1 124:19 127:11 262:20 81:23 92:2 94:9 102:1 133:8 134:16 160:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055535 [associated - better] associated (cont.) attorney back (cont.) began (cont.) 197:11 207:12 217:6 231:4 5:17,17 11:3 12:12,15 13:6 225:9 237:12,16 246:21 175:1 179:24 224:4,7 228:6 231:12 263:4 264:24 273:6 13:18 144:18,25 146:9 249:13 250:6 261:13,15 beginning 274:7,12 276:12,22 attorneys 266:2 272:5,16 273:4 277:4 31:1632:1533:1346:10 associates 2:3 251:15258:17 background 57:3,8,10 59:10 64:9 79:15 23:5,24 attract 145:20 150:10 253:18 93:23 133:23 140:16 assume 161:7 259:20 228:12 268:8,25 269:6 14:6 69:8 100:22 101:1 attributed backup 271:8 277:2 109:12 113:11,12 117:3 194:7 232:7 begins 119:11 129:13 177:23 audience bad 206:25 207:13 197:1 221:7 222:18 223:1 62:3 14:18274:19 begun 246:2 257:24 august baffled 136:2 assumed 1:1 2:22 4:5 281:25 202:13 behalf 41:22 austin balance 4:22 22:1 assuming 2:4 134:25 behavior 128:9,12 153:5 authorities bandied 253:20 assumption 114:22 115:19226:18 140:3 believe 70:1 90:23 125:12 195:14 authority base 6:23 7:168:109:16 11:2 264:4 238:19 264:18 14:23 15:2,17 19:16,19 assumptions available based 22:7 23:1,5 25:3 26:16 196:5 201:2 10:7,11 13:1 33:23 36:10 36:7 44:7 48:23 70:24 28:12,24 31:5 42:6 48:25 assurance 41:21 58:18 91:25 97:16 99:15 103:21 117:21 133:4 56:21 59:1,9,25 61:5,6 221:7,11 238:6 256:13 116:8,16 138:17 162:21 145:23 150:11 199:21 64:13 74:19 105:6 123:12 assure 175:18 176:16,19 178:14 246:9 251:4 264:3 266:11 126:19 127:7 134:8 146:18 231:24 181:23 201:9 230:14 277:3,3,5 279:3 154:20 179:21 182:23 atlanta 231:15 232:6 baseline 192:12 198:14209:13 2:9 average 167:1,4 229:16 239:25 246:4 250:1 atomic 254:21 basically 254:11 257:23 258:17 33:18 35:1,18 39:1 42:11 avoid 36:21 54:10 55:22 59:14 264:24 272:3,5 43:6 46:19 48:12,18 79:2,5 114:24 116:4 64:10 79:4 119:18 150:13 bell attach aware 156:3 157:21 166:9,13 225:18,19 219:12 17:18,20,22 18:7 43:9 56:7 173:23 185:4,9 207:3 222:5 bench attached 103:12 108:8 130:22 226:11 250:18 279:5 58:13 70:4 103:18 106:16 3:8,12,16,16,23 6:23 131:18 132:7,16,20 133:12 basis benefit 158:22 219:5 236:16,18 178:14,20,24 182:8,19 33:4,6 44:11 51:25 86:4 27:18 28:4 attachment 197:13,20,21 198:7,8 103:14 104:10 158:15 benignus 236:13,14,15 199:17,18 226:16,19,20,21 168:20 218:7 236:21 188:14,16 attempt 228:14 230:5 234:24 241:1 batch benzene 62:14 162:11 273:19 241:2 261:23 278:3 211:1 169:25 attempted awareness batches bergen 198:11 274:23 211:3 59:25 100:14,18 101:14 attempting axis bates best 92:22 189:23 195:4 163:19 207:3,4 3:15 145:6 268:9,15,25 9:3 46:7 56:25 57:4 58:17 attending aza beam 58:19 68:22,22 69:6,13,14 62:3 43:14,18 166:24 167:12,20 207:15 70:15,16,24 72:16 81:24 attenuate 167:12 attenuated 207:23 bachelor 31:24 b 207:22 bear 158:12 bearing 93:12 94:17 112:7 132:5,15 149:2 156:17 157:7,9,13 161:14 177:16203:13,17 203:20 229:3,6 231:14 attenuates 207:15 attenuating 166:23 attenuation 165:4 167:20 22:5 25:1827:10,1631:14 3:15 36:14 41:19 46:6 56:9 65:24 69:21,23 70:2 86:24 becoming 38:21 87:9 89:20,23,25 90:3,5,9 120:13 159:11 160:3,9,12 began 13:10 31:20 36:16 45:9 164:1 167:16 197:14 203:7 203:8,9 204:18 215:12 47:2 63:12 74:20 78:14,25 133:18 140:17 174:25 234:3 249:11,16 bet 240:8 beta 166:11,13 better 17:2 77:12 79:25 86:9 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055536 [better - captured] better (cont.) birmingham break calculations 126:5,22 157:16 161:22 29:5,13,22 31:1 37:23 88:4 93:21 95:16 218:24219:1,6,10,11,12,14 173:14 225:12 232:13 bit 132:12 142:24 143:5 232:23 233:7,16,22 234:6,19 16:15 38:17,24,24 54:22 190:13 248:17,20,21 calibrated 244:17 70:9 101:24 132:17 219:24 270:14 165:7 beyond 220:11 249:13,23 260:3 breakthrough calibration 254:21 black 141:21 116:18215:9 216:15,19,23 bi 140:25 breakthroughs 243:7 62:11,12 blah 142:4 calibrations big 253:13,13,13 briefly 219:3,4 37:7,8,9 38:8 50:6,7,12 blanks 16:2 221:10 call 51:7,17 62:20 97:12 221:12 bright 20:2,3 47:10 54:15 55:16 bigger blind 267:19 55:19 69:25 164:1 210:2 207:23,23,24,24 236:8 bring 245:17 255:14 256:12 bill blood 90:9 251:14 259:6 261:15268:6,19 270:9 59:24 100:15,15 101:11,12 273:10 bringing called 108:22,22,24 110:9 119:4 board 254:24 33:17 44:18 45:11 47:12 120:8 125:8 262:12 263:2,2 105:8,9,10 109:19 britain 80:23 96:5 97:7 102:22,24 263:8,8,12,13 board's 56:11 57:16 142:12 103:8 105:11,13,15 110:23 billed 105:10 broad 150:1,5,12,19 152:12 164:6 262:11,20 bob 14:19 166:7 169:13 203:23 billing 56:3 broader 238:16 245:16 262:9,16 bob's 38:18 calling billion 258:22 broke 38:8 106:1 212:2 171:23 body 147:17,20,23 calls bills 236:17 brought 178:1 263:20 boiling 10:20 34:15,22 90:3,5 calm biochemists 160:21,22,24 103:10 144:18,19 223:6 242:16 114:15 115:13 bolts 224:2 camera biological 278:21 280:7,23 281:13 budgeted 205:23 206:14 116:11 134:25 135:6,19,21 bond 101:10 canfield 165:14 192:19 193:2 building 2:8 biologically bonner 2:20 11:4 12:17 13:1451:9 capability 156:23 19:1720:18 51:11,14 224:2 236:4 222:7 223:17 biomedical bonner's bulk capable 83:15 96:15 171:5 19:18,20,25 20:5,14 22:16 152:6 43:2 142:6 234:8,22 biotest 22:17 24:24 bunky capacity 130:16 136:2 book 225:21 218:5 biotests 220:7 burned capillary 130:9 books 198:21 161:18,25 162:5,11,12 biphenol 219:25 220:2 business 163:9 63:4 border 94:4 100:19 116:1 119:21 capture biphenols 256:10 124:12 76:20,21 77:5,15 78:13,24 56:14 57:22 59:1 62:7 64:5 boss buy 79:7,12 92:4,19 94:1,8 65:3,5 66:21 69:15 71:4 36:11,18 100:12 105:2 220:6 232:5 96:19 97:19,23 98:6 153:25 132:24 122:5 buying 154:8 155:2,17,24 156:4 biphenyl bottom 34:4 157:22 158:5 164:10 166:1 116:15 biphenyls 64:6 65:6,10 66:20 69:15 71:3 114:17 115:15,22 123:3 139:18 148:13 194:22 209:13 birds 114:18 115:16 113:18 173:13212:7,10 bought 77:2 bound 220:7 box 10:16,19 50:7 boxed 218:14 c cac 102:25 calandra 116:11 calculate 87:9 215:12,23 246:13 calculated 216:17,20 242:20 166:4,6,7,8 167:3,8,11 169:2,11 170:10,22 171:13 174:2,16 175:2,3,20 176:25 178:15 179:24 181:15,17 181:20 201:15202:2 203:25 207:14 209:8 241:8 captured 167:5 192:21 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055537 [capturing - clarify] capturing cells check chow 166:24 155:2 83:8 185:21,22,25 267:21 212:19213:9 carbon center chelate chromatogram 192:19 193:2 236:8 205:18 206:3,4,9 211:16 43:23 82:8 147:6 158:5 164:2 career century chelates 209:17211:16213:7 214:3 31:20 109:24 170:20 56:9 43:24 214:13215:5 216:5 carefully certain chemical chromatograms 266:7 14:4 23:8 103:7 114:19 40:24 47:21 71:22 74:9 146:17 147:3 209:8 211:23 Carolina 115:17 163:24 166:3,22 78:3 152:16,17 165:14 213:17219:4,5 1:1 2:14,21 4:15 5:15 9:22 194:18,18 197:16 199:5 189:8 chromatograph carried 208:10 chemicals 51:7 78:17,25 79:6,13 84:17 242:19 certainly 3:20 150:13,14 240:18 81:10 83:15 92:19 96:15 carrier 10:7 49:24 57:9 59:17 65:7 chemist 141:22,24 142:3 153:25 155:20,20 159:12,14 165:3 70:7 77:4 97:2,16 101:8 32:23 34:23 35:15,16 58:25 154:8,18,19,24 158:11 207:1 112:24 120:3 134:17 67:6 70:4 72:6,22 73:1 160:20 164:2,5,7 167:21 carries 137:22 221:25 230:18 103:18 106:16 111:16 169:3,4 171:5,13 174:1 155:21 232:21 234:8 261:8 265:3 121:23 127:5,12 128:1 203:15 204:3 206:20 208:3 carry cetera 156:16 185:24 198:1 215:1 217:17241:9 87:4 152:1 167:10,10 199:12 225:4 chromatographic cars chain chemistry 54:5 153:13 156:4 97:11,11 19:3 14:3 32:25 33:1 34:24 chromatographs case challenge 38:19,22 39:7,9,10 40:10 49:18 50:20,21,22,23,24 1:1 4:106:127:9,12,15,17 10:6 118:5 40:13 41:2,3 43:18 45:10 51:5 52:1,18 96:20,25 7:21 8:5,8,8,9 9:20 11:4,25 challenges 45:23 46:1,16 47:23 48:9 169:13 170:4,6 175:3 11:25 12:5,18 13:25 18:18 274:12 48:24 49:1,2 73:23 97:25 203:11 204:18 208:5 26:24 105:5 152:3 154:14 challenging 113:23 120:10 122:11 217:19218:21 158:5 211:5 214:12,20,21 256:3 124:7,24 125:10 126:1 chromatography 214:25 215:4 245:22 chance 127:22 128:19 130:12,15 48:22,23 49:7,8,13,17 246:23 250:17,24 255:20 52:2 242:8 148:8,10,21,23,25 149:1 50:12 53:17,20 76:18,24 258:1 262:13 264:2 278:14 change 205:8 266:16 273:6,12 77:8 78:12 83:3 92:5 93:25 279:7281:17 35:12 87:20 157:15 165:2,3 276:3 280:15 281:6 97:1,8,14,21 98:7 155:12 cases 165:4 190:2,6 207:17 chemists 176:24 9:5,10 14:16,21,22,25 16:2 232:10 243:20 246:5,14 40:21 47:24 72:25 75:13 chrome 17:5 116:14 158:4 214:1 247:5,7,11,15,20 99:25 119:13 122:1 124:8 233:14 245:20 254:13 changed 128:2 149:25 187:15,16 chronological catchall 157:3 167:6 215:5 247:23 197:5 17:2 263:23 changes chloride chronologically categorically 156:25 165:5 213:7 40:8 85:24 86:3 87:17 31:15 133:4 changing 189:14 192:22 ciba caught 167:14 232:9 277:2 chlorinated 238:8 62:4 characteristic 78:11 114:14,15,17 115:12 circle cause 164:24,25 115:13,15,21 116:15 118:15,21 167:6 characteristics 136:24,25 167:9 183:7,12 circumstances caused 45:8 160:18 197:11 194:1,3,8,9 208:21 209:13 30:23 194:18 199:6 215:7 171:19 characterized chlorine city causes 138:22 191:13,21 192:19,24,25 227:16 160:16 characterizes 193:2,23 194:5,6,11,12,13 clarification causing 37:9 195:11,15,22 196:5 198:18 71:3,5 222:15 168:2 charge 198:22,24 201:1,2,6 209:1 clarified caution 52:25 53:1 59:14,18 77:9 choose 41:24 65:9 66:14 71:22 200:7 255:16 122:5 127:18 130:15,20 183:11 211:10 74:10 cavity charged chose clarify 169:18 121:25 179:13216:7 27:24 28:7 51:20 66:4,24 cdc charlotte chosen 71:18,20 74:4 138:23 102:24 1:1 2:21 4:14 54:1 245:22 145:16 174:3 182:4 183:16 227:13 235:16 278:22 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055538 [clarity - conclusive] clarity 117:21 class 152:23 166:3 clean 78:19 87:12 153:6,9,10 224:3 cleanup 84:18 87:5 152:4,10,12 153:1,2,5,13,14 158:18 clear 22:15 62:25 104:15 112:2 115:7 117:20,23 126:21 178:6 186:7 201:13 205:5 239:10 263:12 cleared 44:13 clearly 193:13,21 194:15 199:3,4 200:25 217:8 232:22 265:22 271:14 client 5:18,19 16:8 clients 228:24 close 51:14 75:20 94:16,23 138:16 206:15 209:1 closely 201:10206:14215:16 closest 215:17216:3 clue 182:2 clues 148:19 coalesce 159:21 coated 160:1 162:24 cobalt 45:14,15,17,20 coded 161:18,21 colleagues 272:18 collect 118:19 124:4,6 collected 198:22 collecting 116:7 133:25 collection 124:17 135:8 collective 261:3 collector communication components 166:20,21 244:3 87:21 161:13,17 162:3 collects community 163:6,20,25 173:16 208:25 166:21 177:8 252:25 277:14 composition college companies 220:7 252:16 233:15 compositions color company 158:1 43:24 45:18,19 1:1 4:8,23 9:20 37:11 52:9 compound colored 76:2,3 77:11 103:3,15,18 24:5 63:16 132:11 167:7 43:24 106:20 107:15 154:17 207:22 208:11,18 colorimetric 189:8 235:25 compounds 45:11 companyized 83:1 209:5 column 220:11 compressing 82:9 155:3,5,9,22 158:21 comparable 42:2 159:1,2,2,4,13,14,20,24 277:10 comprises 162:4,5,14 163:8 165:2 comparative 252:13 257:24 206:25 207:5,8,9 193:22 194:4 241:7 242:17 comprising columns compare 272:10 161:15,17,18,19,21,22,23 157:24 concentrate 161:25 162:8,10,11,12,18 compared 153:11 176:8 162:20,21,22,25 163:2,10 216:2 concentrated 208:24 compares 153:8 combustion 280:21 concentrates 192:22 comparing 153:21 comfortable 218:8 281:11 concentration 241:23 comparison 40:3,5 45:20 84:19 153:15 comforting 280:16 171:22 189:20,22 190:24 28:6 compatible 191:12,21 192:24 196:3 coming 160:7 197:17 199:15,20,22 30:18 138:3 166:19 186:7 compile 200:14 208:7,9,11 216:24 225:1 248:18 145:6 265:23 216:25 comment compiled concentrations 63:3 241:10 236:17,18 114:19 115:17 134:24 commenting complete 135:3 157:25 195:20 198:5 256:2 11:22 227:21 249:14,15 199:24 commercial completed concept 157:4 7:4,6 140:13 187:5 97:16,22,24 105:19 commission completely conception 229:25 236:4 238:2 54:24 152:20 163:13 68:16 committee 175:15 198:3 207:8 254:3 concern 101:4,6 102:14,17,18,21,24 257:6 254:23 257:13 260:3 103:1,4,12 104:7 105:5,8,9 completes concerned 105:13,14,16,20 106:1,2,3 272:3 18:24 19:1,8 128:5 193:4 106:3,4,11,23,24 107:8,10 completion 228:15 250:15 107:16 108:6,10,16 109:3,6 42:10,14 concerning 109:14 110:5,16,18,21 complex 274:1 111:10,11 112:15 80:25 156:10 concerns committees compliance 272:23 103:8,9 228:6 229:10 231:8 276:15 conclusion communicate 276:17 277:6 200:11 149:25 232:19 complicated conclusions communicated 85:11 87:15 156:21 14:12 195:18200:13 245:14 component 259:11 260:2 264:12 communicating 136:18 173:17205:10,12 277:11 56:8 205:12 conclusive 277:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055539 [concurrent - cox] concurrent 41:7 46:18 condense 264:16 conder 236:10 conditions 155:10 176:3 189:21 193:24 197:4 200:16,17 209:9,20 conductivity 169:14,23 172:9 181:24 conference 245:17 confidential 189:3 confirm 8:12 138:21,23 139:4,5,8 191:7 255:13 266:25 confirmation 139:10 confirmed 8:15,24 14:6 139:11 confused 11:18235:15 confusion 278:12 congress 2:4 conjecture 140:5 conjunction 141:17274:15 connect 141:15 Connecticut 9:15,17 connecting 142:1 connection 257:18 258:1 261:20 consciousness 228:18 consensus 58:1 consider 210:2 214:1 consideration 156:13251:10 considered 45:25 199:6 considering 108:17 consistent 258:11 consistently control correct (cont.) 232:24 234:15 3:14 53:22 54:13 113:6,21 175:5 182:7,13,18,21 consolidated 131:15 132:8 150:24 170:9 183:21 186:17 187:1,2,3,4 148:9,22 210:14 221:22 231:11 187:6,7,9,11,12 188:5,6,9 constant 238:6 263:25 189:3,5,13 190:15,21,25 166:18 conversation 191:22 192:1,2,3,4 195:1,4 constituent 56:20 57:25 60:2 68:10 195:9,12,13,16,23 196:1,16 39:23 40:1 64:6 81:8 71:21 73:13 74:9 242:1 197:17 201:23,24 208:22 constituents convert 211:1,15,25 212:3,4 221:8 33:8 45:24 193:7 222:18 223:3,8,12,17,24,25 consultants converted 231:18,19,22 238:11,13 23:3 158:24 240:5 241:9 243:11,24 consulted converting 244:10,11,13,18 259:14 15:5 230:7 27:10 263:11 264:6,7 265:8 contact cool 272:13,22 280:24 237:25 238:4,15 169:18 corrected contacts cooled 245:25 124:12,13,14 127:23,24,25 169:22 correction 128:4 129:12 coon 24:8 contained 94:25 correctly 212:20 238:23 252:11 cooperate 9:17 42:24 114:9 139:15 264:14 114:23 115:23 116:2,2 156:18 161:9 164:15 168:4 contains 265:24 200:2,3,9,18 226:10 149:18 193:2 200:5 copies correspondence contaminants 13:1 90:3 188:2 265:25 95:3 243:18 261:18,25 274:4,13 266:3 costs contaminated copy 34:4 263:4 135:2 170:13 172:22 12:20,21 13:3 60:18 61:1,9 counsel contamination 90:14 117:20,23 143:17 3:174:166:8 12:1667:12 114:2 115:21 145:4 149:8 184:12,17 counselor 116:4 188:11,11,12,13,14,17,20 190:1 content 235:24 236:8 237:4 239:3,4 counted 35:3 236:19 239:22 28:18,20 contents corner country 3:1 189:5 113:10 209:23 62:2 contest corporate county 234:1,2,7,10 105:12,14,15 106:2,3,4 227:16 context corporation couple 103:17 129:13 109:20 31:5 70:14,16 84:10 280:4 continue correct coupled 27:23 111:5 112:2 201:7 8:11 12:16 14:1 17:9,16 176:24 213:2 235:15 249:11 255:7 18:20 22:18,19 24:11 26:5 course continued 26:13,15 28:13,21 29:11,14 17:4 34:6 62:8 65:11 46:21 237:1 243:5 31:21,22,25 32:3,6 34:13 145:19 157:3 167:15 continues 39:3 47:18,19,22 53:15 197:13275:11 167:4 282:3 54:14 57:17 64:2,4 69:2,3 court continuing 73:10 88:1,23 93:6,8 98:24 1:1 4:9,24 62:10,17 143:20 42:22 131:18 248:19 101:19 102:12,20 107:11 145:5 269:9 continuous 107:12 114:25 115:1 cover 207:16 116:20,25 117:13,14,16 148:11 220:8 continuously 118:16,21,24 119:4,8,10,14 covered 166:12 120:15,24,25 121:3,6,7,23 15:4 134:13 239:11 278:8 contribute 121:24 122:9,10,13 123:10 covers 121:20 193:15 124:8 130:14 133:19 139:2 281:19 contributions 139:6,9 140:18 141:6 cox 122:6 144:20,25 146:10,20 170:6 30:7 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055540 [creates - detail] creates 141:3 crevecouer 91:8,13,14 188:6 crew 233:9 critical 167:22 criticisms 19:25 20:2 critique 273:1,5,12 274:6 crockett 236:3 crosses 256:9 cruised 44:6 cu.m. 191:24 cubic 50:16 191:25 192:7 196:11 199:23 200:15,16 curious 58:3 current 7:8 167:14,15 169:16 207:17,18 276:18 curriculum 3:12 264:25 265:2 curve 215:9 216:19,23 custodies 19:3 custody 263:25 customers 228:24 cut 153:4 cutoff 267:11 cv 1:1 4:11 6:24 31:16 265:4 cyanide 40:4 cyanides 39:15 d d014237 270:6 daily 2186 HamnpH 52:3 data deductive 14:8 16:6 18:14 19:9 20:10 214:17 20:16,18,20,22 42:24 67:14 deductively 196:6 231:3,9 233:19 165:22 236:16,18 237:1 246:1 deemed 274:15,18,18 276:21 232:8 date defendant 4:4 32:10,11 41:13 58:19 1:1 2:12 12:18 112:10 113:7,18 117:15 defense 267:11,20 41:20 dated defensible 217:23 236:22 239:8,9,19 16:12 231:2,15 233:19,24 239:21 271:10 define dates 98:12 101:5 155:11 156:4 112:5 149:7 defined david 199:3,4 30:22,24 definitely day 200:5 2:21 28:10,17,1831:13 definition 33:3,3,6,6 93:9 218:8,9 74:23 156:13 220:25 226:3 255:21 273:2,7 274:2,11 definitive 275:15,15 276:3 277:18,19 219:25 277:9 278:7 279:14,23,24,25 definitively 280:3 281:10,11,14,16 174:23 daydreaming degradation 96:11 156:24 days degraded 5:15,19 31:5 46:6 70:2 82:15 95:12 200:6 225:5 281:12 degree ddt 31:24 169:23 78:11 167:9 214:19 delighted deadline 27:25 41:18 deliver deal 5:16 81:7 87:7 158:15 62:20 66:9 84:24 delivering dealing 176:9 64:5 84:24 165:24 173:15 demonstrated 173:18 258:7 276:14 245:10 dealt demonstrative 14:3 217:20 62:14 decays demonstratively 166:12 70:11 decent density 206:6 45:18,19 decide department 99:15 137:7 246:9 23:1 47:11 48:2 52:25 decided 116:9 119:7 184:10 186:25 44:7 84:14 134:20 151:12 189:18218:16229:18 249:9 230:2 237:25 decisions depending 36:8 103:3,15 234:5 81:12 152:5 160:7 169:18 decomposes depends 192:18 226:3 244:7 decreases depiction 207:17 5:23 deponent 257:18 259:10 deponent's 263:25 deposed 8:9,24 13:25 deposition 1:1 2:17 3:9,9,17 4:2,6,12 5:2,4,7,12 6:2,7,8,13 9:13 9:18,21,23 10:13,14 11:2 11:11,12 14:21 15:20 18:17 25:6 26:15 28:2,10,15,17 28:1831:11,12,1395:22 99:5 105:4 143:19 144:12 144:17,19,24 145:7,18 146:1 183:24 235:10 240:2 240:15 249:5 255:3 258:15 263:1 265:6 267:25 275:10 275:16 277:22,23 279:11 281:23 depositions 8:2,18,21 9:4,9 10:1 11:14 11:16,21 15:10,21 26:12 31:2 derivative 196:18 198:19 derived 148:25 192:22 197:2 198:24 deriving 201:3 describe 63:23 179:3 219:15221:10 described 39:7 105:5 111:11 112:25 describes 154:8 155:9 156:7 203:24 describing 170:5 205:6 description 109:6 design 43:21 designated 144:9 152:13255:15 designation 72:2 154:17 designed 45:3 52:9 136:9,9 137:2 designing 51:1 despite 249:9 detail 111:25 134:15234:14 254:9 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055541 [details - doing] details developed (cont.) dirt divided 68:1 252:23 142:2 162:23 182:22 183:2 177:20 48:7 detect 183:18,18 244:9 disagreement division 167:23,24 172:20,24 developing 242:23 1:1 3:20 4:10 32:23 33:2 174:25 175:1,19,23 176:16 80:16 89:20 114:23 116:3 disappear 34:24 38:20 40:21,23,25 179:7,8,11,12,12,14 180:1 development 86:16 47:21,24 91:9 100:3,5,6,10 181:5,7,13 51:12 100:17 105:13 106:2 discipline 102:9 184:11 186:25 detected 221:25 253:12 48:8,9 240:19 67:20 163:17 166:4 178:21 developments disclosure divisions 178:25 180:5,18 194:6 113:22 279:6 107:15 detecting device discover dmf 77:6 159:7 136:11 175:10 152:14 detection devices discovered doctor 154:24 169:12 171:5,14 169:2 127:14 5:106:6 34:18 174:10 172:19 181:9 devine discoveries 178:13 190:13 194:24 detective 2:8 252:24 197:13 202:12 258:2 76:18 dictate discovery document detector 276:21 61:21 7:3 99:8 131:3,5 133:13 76:20,21,25 77:3,5,8,16 dietrich discuss 144:16 148:2,6,7,20,21 78:17,22,24 79:7 81:11,11 53:1 110:8 248:22 275:19 149:7,8,13 184:1,15 190:10 82:10,19 155:13,18,23 difference discussed 190:19 192:13 193:19 157:23 158:10 159:4,18,19 51:1762:1897:12 178:2 24:22 39:1 70:6 115:9 195:24 199:18204:17 159:21,22 163:17,19 165:4 179:7 243:12 245:2,3 133:7,19,21,24 134:4,8 205:7 211:7 235:20,22 166:1,4,8,15 167:22,25 differences 206:18 236:22 237:1 238:22 168:22 169:9,11,24 170:11 246:8 discusses 241:23 248:4,9,14 252:13 170:22 171:3 172:6,8,10 different 150:10,12,18 269:8,15,16,17271:18 176:25 204:1 207:6,10,11 48:18 61:11 62:23 64:6 discussing documentation 207:13,13,14 102:22,23 104:7,8 105:11 21:13 108:23 126:1 203:10 218:14229:8 detectors 110:23 119:22,23 141:23 280:14 documented 78:13 96:19 98:6 155:25 161:15,15,17 165:2 171:10 discussion 109:9 157:14217:23 169:14 170:23 175:3,9 175:15 180:19202:10 55:20 68:11 122:18 191:11 223:20 232:22 detects 209:9 216:6 245:20 254:9 193:22 195:7 199:2 272:18 documents 81:11 167:24 254:10 277:8 discussions 3:9,15,166:5 10:7 12:7 determination differentiate 25:2 55:25 56:2,17,18 25:5,6,9,10,19,22,23 99:3 159:23 203:25 62:17,18 disposal 143:22 144:3,8,17,23 145:5 determinations difficult 114:5,23 116:3 120:18 145:12,16,24,25 146:8,12 157:22 193:22 194:1,3,4 16:23 51:4 154:5 226:13 disseminated 235:1,8 237:14 248:5,8 195:19 196:2 difficulty 67:18 257:13,15,17,20,22,25 determine 133:9 156:20 176:4 dissolve 258:14,23 259:9,20,24 34:2 40:2 80:20 115:20 dilution 39:25 261:19 262:9 263:7,24 116:11 120:18 135:18 211:4 dissolved 265:22 268:9,12 269:3 136:4 137:13,18 140:7 dimensions 210:7 272:11 151:11 154:1 157:9 171:12 50:11 dissolving doffermyre 177:13 180:17 189:19,23 dimethylformamide 85:19 210:21 2:8 212:14 234:3 256:17 259:2 152:15 distilled doing determined direct 87:12 27:24 35:23 36:1 40:18 14:1368:1471:8 76:1 17:10 41:3 46:23 106:21 distinction 42:24 45:23 62:5 67:6 180:6,12 107:21 108:2 131:2,4 54:21 68:20 73:2,3 77:25 80:4 determining directly distributed 88:14,15 91:5 92:4,6,18 58:1668:13 130:18 30:1342:1891:18 101:23 188:3 93:4,17,23 95:11 105:9 develop 103:22 159:1 237:6 244:4 distribution 110:8 111:14 112:7 114:2 40:17 45:9,10 80:18 84:15 director 101:16,17 135:18 157:1,5 120:6 132:25 136:23 84:22 114:6 133:23 183:1 59:21 100:11,16,19 236:3 205:17,18 206:5 215:16 137:14 141:6 154:12 232:12 237:7 240:7 243:3 156:14,14,15 157:18,19 developed directors district 196:20 222:3,11 224:5,8 45:21 47:6 49:3,4 77:22 59:21 1:1,1 4:9,10 225:7,9,15 228:19 230:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055542 [doing - ensuring] doing (cont.) dsw (cont.) ed electrons 230:15 232:19 233:16 269:17,18,18,19,19,22,23 49:16,16 77:13 166:6,19,21,25 167:5,11 234:15 237:5,6 243:16,17 269:24,25 270:4,5,5,6,7,7 editorializing 181:17 246:15 268:7 270:12,20,21,21,22,22,23 202:23 elevated domain 270:23,24,25 271:2 educated 228:18 260:15,18 due 149:20 eliminate dominant 108:4 136:12 195:21 196:4 education 152:9 215:15 202:12 43:8 252:20 ell dot duluth effect 239:24 11:4 95:2 155:6 198:6 ellenburg doubt duly effectively 187:14,18 188:11 60:19 106:18 107:25 6:19 155:21 elmer 110:14 137:20 138:20 duplicate effects 119:5,15 139:14 196:1 242:17 114:7 116:11 else's doubted duties efficacy 249:10 137:23 138:7,18 32:24,25 14:10 elude doubting duty efficiency 168:21 138:22 124:11 154:19 eludes dow dyer effluent 196:13 189:8 7:17 8:8 254:13 236:20 242:18 embrace downstream e effort 277:3 18:11 21:9,15,17 eager 34:5 134:23 234:2,3 emery dr 4:6 6:12,15 8:19 19:18,20 7218 eagle efforts 273:13 49:16 77:14 emission 19:25 20:5,14 22:16,17 24:24 34:18 36:19,20 48:3 48:6 49:16 53:1 56:3,20 59:1 63:17 67:4,22,22 80:5 80:8 84:16 135:6 138:11 eagles eight 16:1 51:11 83:17,23 either 48:14 emissions 48:16 57:12 58:9,12 59:24 60:2 74:14 75:6,7 89:10 90:10 675 ear 14:20 39:22 65:5 117:23 emmett 118:10,13 147:12 160:9 188:17 90:11,19 94:25 95:22 96:1 100:15 104:3 108:14 109:17 115:7 117:10,10 62:4 231:6 earlier 35:24 37:7 41:10,13 42:1 176:24 177:20 187:22 employ 205:18 206:2 208:5 212:6,6 242:25 212:10 219:10 227:1 232:7 employed 119:3 122:5,10 123:20 127:9,17,23 128:16,21 9825 10T19 10615 120:16 122:16 123:13 233:14 electrical 75:19,25 76:19 77:1 158:3 215:8 129:3,9,20 131:9 139:9,10 140:10 142:17,17 144:8,15 127:14 128:20 131:12 134:13 146:16 147:1,14 3:13 99:20 113:5 131:14 employees 132:7 103:6 231:17 145:17 182:15 184:16 148:9 154:21 156:8 203:10 electrode employing 186:3 205:5 209:21 250:22 252:10 264:11 272:20,24 272:25 274:10 281:2 206-18 213-23 23T25 244:8 246:20,22 278:5 early 166:20,21 157:22 203:25 electron employment 76:20,21 77:5 79:6,12 92:4 261:21 264:1 267:12,18 draw 54:21 drawn 55:11 277:11 13:11 42:12 46:6 96:2 139:19 140:24 222:5 232:12 253:1 255:25 256:1 260:25 265:18 273:4,25 92:19 93:25 94:7 96:18 endeavor 97:19,23 98:5 153:25 154:8 261:8,10 155:2,17,24 156:4 157:22 ended 158:5 164:9 166:1,7,8,13 94:3 drift easier 166:24 167:3,8 169:2,10 ends 161:9 driven 132:17 p^cipct 170:10,22 171:12 174:2,16 141:23 175:2,3,20 176:24 178:15 engineering 277:6 drops 26T13 267 11 easily 179:23 181:19201:15 202:2 203:25 207:14,15 259:25 264:10 engineers 81:17 181:10 209:8 40:21 47:24 99:25 drs pactprn electronic england 90:21 drug 220:6 dsw 3:19 184:7 269:7,10,12,15 1:1 4:10 ec 241:7 242:17 ecb 215:5 77:15 78:13,24 166:4 181:15241:8 electronically 208:6 188:13 ensure 152:7 245:4 276:20 ensuring 16:7 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055543 [entered - experiences] entered essence events exclusively 219:2,3 135:20 149:13 273:24 255:24 entire essences eventually excursions 103:3 145:4 177:7 191:6 135:19 86:19 88:22 177:5,9 228:13 20:8 241:23 est4 everybody excuse entirety 144:9 30:15,19 62:22 63:4,7 95:23 186:2 152:8 241:12 establish 134:17 137:23 138:1,7 executive entitled 37:12 49:24 59:12 87:1 142:20 225:8 228:5 249:10 101:4,5 102:14,17,17 103:8 116:19 148:11 184:8 95:8 107:9 134:24 137:10 262:25 105:8,9 106:2,23 107:16 186:15 190:23 191:1 147:13 243:15 everybody's 108:6,10,16 109:2,6,14 240:18 275:12,14 established 105:2 110:16,18,21 112:15 entity 37:13 84:12 111:23 128:20 evidence executives 156:9 217:20 227:15 142:14 244:8,20 158:7 214:6,14,23 215:2,6 105:20 entries establishing evident exercise 220:9 89:20 140:14 75:1 101:17 213:20 envelope establishment evolutionary exercised 216:4 243:1 36:16 42:17 97:17 200:7 environment estimate evolved exhibit 56:15 113:25 132:25 34:4 69:7,13,14 70:16 280:18 4:2 6:2,10,13 99:4,5 112:22 171:23 193:5 253:3 274:14 93:12 157:7,10215:13 ew 112:25 143:25 144:4,9,12 environmental 216:9 242:24 119:5 144:15,22 145:7,12 183:22 16:7,10 23:2 76:14 78:11 estimated exact 183:24 184:7 190:14 203:8 96:14 98:19 114:2 115:21 217:1 104:25 141:8 168:18 235:2,4,5,6,13 238:23 140:16 148:12 170:8,19 estimating exactly 240:12,15 248:12,13 250:2 172:7 174:22 177:18,19,24 216:11 61:10 65:7 77:20 89:14 250:11 257:24 258:13 182:11 183:19 196:9 estimation 144:5 149:22 156:17 259:11 264:15,19 265:14 201:10,16 202:6 211:5,8 217:9 157:18 180:7 196:21 212:9 268:10 272:6 212:1 216:1 217:22 220:23 et 214:9 exhibits 221:24 222:4,23 226:18 1:1 4:7 152:1 167:10,10 examination 3:6,23 227:1,7,12 228:14 229:18 ethyl 3:2 6:21 exist 230:2 238:1 242:13 256:5 169:25 examined 174:4,14 229:11 259:2,4,8 273:10 274:3 276:6 europe 6:19 existed environments 67:25 69:21,22 89:11 120:9 example 103:20 175:22 45:12 123:4 124:13 45:13 49:2 50:18 68:12 existence epa european 97:6 120:8 128:23 132:24 98:15,18 177:13 20:21,23 21:2 22:25 150:3 62:2 141:17 168:5 169:6 171:14 180:12 existing 215:18 227:9 228:9 277:2 evaluate 182:6 209:16 212:25 213:1 131:21 133:13 177:15 equal 34:10 116:12273:12 214:24 216:13 234:25 183:3,10 260:16 evaluated 263:6 exists equilibrated 125:11 126:4 162:25 examples 97:3 86:11 277:12 204:17 expanded equipment evaluating exceed 46:22 33:22 36:16 46:12 96:4,5 133:24 134:15 218:5 expect 96:12,16 98:1 170:15 232:4 evaluation exception 82:19 253:12 256:4 42:16 77:3 124:17 139:12 144:3,6 174:7 expectations equivalency 196:6 exceptions 231:3 276:21 evaporated 197:5 199:3 expected equivalent 153:19 excerpt 231:20 205:17,17 208:10 209:9 evaporative 99:9 101:20 113:7 expense 243:2 153:15 exchange 279:24 escambia evasive 141:12 243:6 experience 95:2 68:19 exchanged 20:9 33:22 76:2 109:18 especially evening 141:8 230:12 232:2 243:13 245:21 252:17 229:5 260:10 26:2 248:19 243:14 experiences esquire event exchanging 264:17 2:3,7,13 136:10 142:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055544 [expert - first] expert extreme fast file 3:11 7:8,11 11:12 12:2 55:1 56:8 152:21 269:4 188:4 263:20 13:13 14:14,15,17,24 15:2 extremely fat fill 15:8,11,14 31:6 42:22 77:6 151:25 177:21 182:9 273:19 139:2 145:19 175:16 eye 201:17 filtered 196:14 204:21 213:21 186:10__________________ fate 230:18 250:16,17,23 251:4,7 f 114:14 115:12 135:20 final 252:10,11,12 254:1,23 255:4,16 256:10 261:21 264:1,25 266:10,14,15,20 f&m 96:14 facilitating fax 2:5,10,15 3:8 242:12 faxed 3:18 150:25 156:5 184:9 186:16 find 266:24 267:17 272:24 273:23 274:1,25 275:20 278:4,13,24 279:2,2 280:13 expertise 41:2 facility 21:10 224:3 34:7 222:7,9 223:21 258:19 fda 114:3 fear 58:25 66:20 71:12 72:10 73:8 74:15,16 75:7,13 76:15 102:3 147:23 171:22 231:6 238:24 250:9 14:5 33:22 36:9 73:22 fact 189:15 finding 232:7 251:5,5 273:12 274:6 277:19 281:7,9 13:24 25:11 56:7 63:22 72:1 78:7 101:16 108:3 feasible 261:5 56:14 59:15 78:2 80:5 244:24 experts 36:2 125:8 129:21 137:19 138:8 138:19 156:21 188:7 211:9 feather 67:22 80:5,8 findings 115:25 explain 16:22,25 38:23 106:15 147:6 169:10 185:7,8 244:1 254:23 255:3,15 260:10 278:4,13 factor feathers 59:1 63:17 67:5,22 84:16 135:6 138:11 fine 5:12,20 11:18 39:6 110:24 111:17 115:3 123:25 143:1 203:11,14,21 204:15 205:1 205:1 213:19 208:9,17215:11,12216:17 factual february 32:5,6 41:14,21 239:13,18 159:6 184:5 185:13 190:12 251:17258:10263:15 explained 245:18 explanation 145:20 256:8 faintest 132:1 239:19,22 fed 212:19213:8 267:10271:14 finer 163:10 23:18 213:22 exploit fair 25:4,8 38:9,11 68:11 federal 227:2,15 finger 261:2,9 45:9 explore 279:12 133:14 198:15 222:5,6,10 222:15 255:11 256:22 258:1 262:25 feed 134:24 feel fingerprint 163:5 164:23 165:5 168:14 fingerprinting exposed 43:10 135:1,10 197:16 fairly 11:22 65:24 66:14,16 77:7 241:22 251:12 feeling 54:4 finish 214:18 exposure 85:11 205:12,17 206:22 240:9 123:7 feen 25:25 46:17 143:3 164:11 208:4 130:9 212:18 fairness 62:11,12 finished extended 31:11 extension 274:22 fall 66:11 79:9 80:8 87:25 feet 50:10,10,11,16 felt 38:7 finishing 46:8 45:22 extensive 276:8 280:13 extensively 167:14 familiar 7:18 34:11 47:4 75:18 78:14 91:15 104:5 170:15 115:19 135:6 229:3 females 188:1 field firm 28:25 29:1,3,4,5 firm's 29:12 36:3 188:4,22 225:17 238:25 52:13 117:7 118:20 122:9 first extent 54:3 97:3 133:22 140:10 253:25 256:7 260:15,17 275:7 239:6 familiarize 225:14 far 124:5,8 134:2 136:6,8 277:20 fifth 252:19 6:16 7:1 17:21 26:4 32:12 32:21,22 33:16 35:7 37:7,8 37:10 38:7,10,12,25,25 42:11 44:3 46:8,8,9,13 extra 17:1 19:8 22:7 76:10 102:8 figments 47:1555:11,24 56:1661:5 48:10 extract 130:22 131:8,8 229:8 255:21 261:1 44:23 figure 61:8 64:23 65:2 68:9 79:11 79:17 80:11,15,23 81:25 136:16 193:18211:15 extraction fashion 68:3 137:4 151:9 183:11 35:6 59:5 63:5 68:15 72:13 82:24 83:7,13,24 91:4,7,11 73:12 75:10 77:24 81:4,16 91:12,22 92:6,10,17,24 87:5 151:5,13,15 152:1,25 211:18 205:2 276:10 85:3 213:16 93:3 94:18,19 95:7 102:14 105:18,22 113:21 114:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055545 [first - generated] first (cont.) folks (cont.) four (cont.) garrity 117:2,3,25 118:7,8,13 226:10 230:11 261:17 23:4 130:23 132:6,15 136:7 follow fourth gas 137:21 139:8 140:24 73:16 113:22 41:16 79:15 120:21 127:8 48:21,22 49:6,8,12,17,18 141:10,14,15 142:6 147:24 following 164:22 179:22 241:5 50:12 51:7 53:16,20 54:5 151:16 162:11 164:20 116:9 202:3 242:11 252:17 76:17 78:12,16,24 79:6,12 169:12 170:10 172:10,14 follows fourthly 83:3 92:4,18 93:25 96:15 182:23,25 185:7 193:23 6:20 115:8 188:3 232:6 96:19,25 97:1,7,14,21 98:6 202:3 207:9 212:16 234:12 food frame 141:22,24 153:25 154:8,19 235:19 240:3 248:6,9 135:1 33:13 70:8 222:16 227:8 155:20,20 156:1,2,4 158:5 252:14 258:18 280:1 forgive 229:14 237:16,21 238:3 158:10 159:12,14 164:1,2,4 fish 55:9 96:11 francis 164:7 169:3,4 170:4,6 114:3,18 115:16 151:24 forgot 94:25 171:13 175:2 176:23 207:1 fit 152:20 frank 214:12241:8 109:5 136:21 form 106:14 gases five 5:8 23:6,11,15 33:1 69:9,17 frankly 3:19 184:9 186:16 52:21 143:1 248:13 70:17 78:20 97:1 104:11 112:8 142:5 254:14 275:23 gasoline flame 106:5 107:17 108:18 126:7 free 181:8 164:10 181:23 132:9 140:9 151:20,20 194:11 251:14 gasses flash 158:25,25 201:20 228:6 frequently 83:19 158:24 159:10 229:20,23 230:19 233:11 110:3 208:25 gather flat 243:22 244:19 264:17 fresh 59:8 119:20 167:1 formalized 172:24 gathered flesh 221:23 front 14:11 275:16 formally 148:19 206:25 gathering flip 36:11 full 76:8 119:25 167:18 format 51:14 gaussian flipped 87:7 251:6 function 205:14,15,16 206:5 207:20 formed 34:23 163:18 gc floor 227:9 266:20 functional 139:23,24 141:16 164:6 2:19 51:14 forming 56:4 59:21,22 99:19,22,24 172:10241:7 242:17 flow 252:19 100:1,5,10,17,21 101:9 gee 155:19 158:15 165:3 formulated 102:9 120:1 59:1363:1371:9 75:12 flows 99:25 functioning 77:14 136:20 226:11 159:12 forth 82:2 geigy flu 74:11 114:24 160:3 204:5 functions 238:8 113:10 252:21 259:13 64:20 general fluid forthcoming fundamental 26:25 27:10,18,21 58:1 59:21,22 61:23 97:22 94:3 101:25 104:15 105:1 fluids forward furnace 112:15 129:9,24 130:3 3:13 56:4 99:19,21,22,24 44:15,16 103:10 107:24 192:17 198:21 134:22 247:22 259:12 100:1,5,10,18,22 101:10 forwarded furnish 279:14 102:9 113:5,11 120:1,6 105:25 108:9 253:18 generally 131:14 132:7 135:9 found further 14:2 39:9,22 40:12 104:5 fm402 13:14 45:7 57:18,22 67:3,4 156:20,21 199:2 249:13 107:7 125:3,5,6 129:6 83:14 76:16 135:5 137:19 138:8 275:17 275:1 278:19 focus 138:11,18 140:11,12 240:6 furthermore general's 19:7,9 103:23 124:17 149:9 242:20 271:7 72:2 198:19 11:3 12:13,15 13:6,18 focused foundation future generate 104:19 45:22 94:24 37:17 52:16 279:12 135:14231:1 232:11 fold four g 176:8 11:8 16:18,20,21 17:8 game folks 46:16 52:10 67:25 76:1,11 50:20,21,22,23,24 52:21 83:16,23 88:6 143:22 158:1 139:11 156:16217:9 232:21 77:14 84:24 89:7 91:15 158:4 214:1,25 242:21 94:25 101:8 111:17 142:12 244:23 245:20 246:23 garbled 78:9 generated 16:6,8 17:11 18:16 20:21 20:22 21:2 218:4 227:4,4 227:18 228:3 229:1,6 230:10 232:13 261:20 274:15 276:24 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055546 [generating - header] generating goal graduation 199:5 246:3 41:21 gentleman godfather gratuitous 71:7 104:21 185:23 27:3 202:25 gentlemen goes gravimetric 22:14 128:24 187:22,25 42:15 81:9,10 82:9,10 39:11 196:20 225:23 226:9 150:8 159:3,24,25 161:5,5 great georgia 167:16 207:11 273:4 146:6 176:3 279:24 2:9 277:16 greater getting going 164:21 242:21 75:5 79:10 82:14 143:16 6:107:1 10:6 11:17 17:3 greatly 145:4 206:6 263:9 265:11 23:1725:1827:11,15,18,19 200:14 265:25 27:20 31:18 37:22 46:6 greene give 59:11 63:5 64:1971:13 2:14 7:23 47:25 80:22 88:8 72:13 75:3,8 76:8 86:2 greensboro 89:23 90:2 92:8 111:12,13 89:19 90:8 108:16 112:1,1 2:14 122:21 148:5 163:7,8 114:12 120:17 123:16 greenville 167:18 172:4 174:13 191:2 147:5 152:21 163:19 172:2 9:21 28:13 191:12,21,24 192:3 250:19 184:1 185:11 191:15,18 ground 253:14,22 255:23 256:13 203:10 226:25 230:24 5:3 44:21 259:7 272:21 279:5 239:5 240:25 248:22,25 group given 249:12 253:5,14 255:6,23 38:21,22 40:19 47:23 48:6 7:14 8:19,22 9:4,9,25 13:9 256:16 257:3 259:3 261:12 48:11,22,25 49:1,2,4,7,13 13:11 14:17,24 15:10,20,22 266:1 267:1,23 268:5,7,8 49:16,17 50:3 52:20,22 22:8,18 37:11 60:17,18 268:11 269:4 270:9,18 53:12 56:4 57:14,21 99:19 61:2 63:14,25 64:9,16 68:9 272:16,20 274:21 275:8 99:23,24,24 100:18,22 71:22,24 102:6 113:3 278:2,6 281:17 135:16 136:25 161:12 122:12 golder 209:4 gives 23:25 24:1 groups 80:19,21 81:2,3 82:12 goldman 100:22 162:4 163:7,12,15 166:22 167:21 168:1,15 23:5,24 163:16,16 208:21 254:1 good guess giving 30:8 65:15 111:17 142:23 11:9 15:25 25:17 36:22 110:17,20 111:6 133:9 143:7 163:5 177:5 205:14 46:11,13 49:20 52:6,17 275:8 211:13 221:1,2,3,5 222:22 55:18 59:5,19 67:1,24 glad 232:17 234:8,20 244:16 93:13 97:5 109:15 120:4 7:23 23:21 30:17 41:24 246:17 248:16 271:6 135:25 141:10 145:15 256:14 270:15 274:18 171:11 191:5 248:10 glass gordon 266:19 86:15 155:4 159:2 30:14 guidelines go gosh 16:10 22:5 27:15 31:14,18 35:23 49:14 98:22 gunther 44:3,15 54:3 74:14,16 75:2 gotten 89:12 75:7,13 76:11 80:7 86:21 118:14 guy 86:22,25 89:15,16,17 91:21 government 67:12 92:5 101:11,13 110:8 95:13 116:16 120:22 121:2 guys 142:25 148:4 153:5,6 124:14 127:4,20,23 128:17 58:8 63:5 75:16 80:4 158:23,25 160:4,5,10,25 130:1 134:5 227:5 229:9 108:15281:5 161:3 164:11 171:4 173:20 governmental 193:19 196:24 203:7,9 227:15 230:22 207:6,10,25 213:5 216:10 graded 218:12224:9,17241:17 234:10 242:2 246:21 249:1,12 graduate 257:1,6 261:12,15 265:23 43:8 266:25 267:21 269:4 271:9 graduated 272:14 277:16,17 31:23 32:4 h.b 18720 h.b. i R7-i n h.l. 188:20,21 h hae 85:23 half 12:5 72:21,22 166:18 196:11 250:18252:13 278:4,4 hallway 30:12 hand 31:16 105:25 107:15 108:1 108:9 113:9 121:8 147:25 184:1 203:8 209:22 229:9 handed 108:5 148:7 149:14 handful 140:2 handled 19:3 handwriting 117:17,18,22 handwritten 117:24 118:3,15,20 hang 21:5 176:20 hanging 170:25 happened 35:1 41:17 43:2 76:23 93:15 135:20 137:13 186:5 244:2 255:25 267:17 273:24 happening 82:17 happens 192:19206:13207:15 208:20 266:23 happy 39:1887:11 104:18 115:10 184:5 213:2 hard 154:11 220:8 264:16 harlan 30:11,12 harmful 116:4 harrisburg 11:4,6,24 hazard 115:22 hcl 194:12 196:5 head 7:22 8:3 48:3 100:9 222:25 header 235:25 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055547 [heads - industry] heads hill hundreds implies 88:8 8:9,25 77:22 162:13 220:1 234:6 health hint hunt implying 114:21 115:18,22 275:5 64:9 231:5 hear hired hydrazones importance 74:14 103:4 104:21 34:17 43:14,18 153:18 heard historical hydrocarbon important 63:11 64:23 65:2,5 66:20 40:11 255:8 273:23 274:23 194:10 8:13 54:21 62:21,22 72:15 69:15 80:3 102:13,15 279:20 hydrocarbons 103:3 154:9 155:11,14 105:18,23 154:20 199:11 history 114:16 115:14 169:25 229:11 230:21 266:8 heart 22:5 256:18,20 280:15 183:7,13 194:2,3,8 improper 151:25 hodges hydrochloric 245:22 heated 236:11 192:18,21 195:22 improvement 158:20 169:15 192:17 hold hydrogen 229:25 236:4 238:2 heats 205:23 257:9 40:3 improvements 169:16 holds hydrophobic 233:1 height 160:12,12 86:10 inadequate 158:1 208:14,14 242:25 holmes hydroxide 275:21 245:8 265:19 152:25 inappropriate heights holzapfel hypothetical 67:13 197:3 157:24 236:9 163:22 include held home 22:23 135:7 217:17218:17 4:12 155:13 160:9,23 231:21 12:25 homework i.e. 61:20 127:19 218:20,23 included helms 2:13,184:13 help 73:15 honest 27:12 249:15 idea 44:4 63:20 132:1 identical 135:15257:14,16265:14 276:23 including 40:17 74:3 77:11 205:1 helpful honestly 118:12 193:12 254:15 identification 23:4 114:3 177:8 228:5 259:24 85:13 helping 41:2 hooked 141:19 hope 4:3 6:14 14:4 99:6 116:13 144:13 183:25 240:16 identified incorrect 63:24 72:2 190:22 indicate helps 276:20 135:23 hoped 3:7 114:17 115:15 136:23 178:16,21 29:19 64:15 148:24 196:19 indicated hesitant 189:15 231:23 hotel identify 136:17 179:7,9,11,11,12,15 5:10 111:8 129:18213:23 231:25 252:12 hewlett 10:20 180:3 201:17 indicates 154:16 hexane 83:2 152:14,16 hotter 158:21 hour identifying 113:24 139:25 193:16 ignore 113:22 114:12 131:3 133:14 indicating hexene 210:7,22 hey 67:25 37:23 142:25 262:21 house 84:7,9 howard 181:20 ii 282:4 iii 35:24 50:8 127:10 235:25 indications 20:9 107:23 indicative high 59:25 100:14,16 101:13 1:1 2:173:3,11 4:7 6:18 208:15 104:6,9 106:19 111:14 154:19 155:1 160:24 166:6 166:6 199:25 231:21 higher hubbard 188:20,21 huh 33:14 116:24 118:17 121:4 95:22 imagination 44:24 imagine indirectly 103:22 individual 58:17 149:14 151:24 100:14 101:15 102:11 122:14 224:13 25:15 160:17 136:24,25 161:22 162:1,16 hum highest 62:4 72:9 immediately 31:10 61:23 158:24 257:1 individuals 227:19246:15,16 159:20 highly human 115:22 impact 115:25 246:19 industrial 130:9,16 136:1 167:8 170:13 230:7 255:18 humans 114:8 implicit 280:14 industry 100:1 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055548 [information - item] information inquiry intent 14:10 16:9,11,16,20 17:11 196:16,17 194:24 18:15,23 19:5 21:2 22:8 insecticides intention 36:5,7 37:14 59:6,8 61:19 114:14 115:12 212:24,25 213:6 255:19 61:22 64:8 65:14,24 66:15 inside intentionally 67:16 68:8,9,23 70:5 71:1,2 169:15 68:20 135:2 212:21 71:23 73:7 89:19 90:1,2,6,9 installed interacted 116:8 118:19 119:12,16,20 34:6 45:5 119:24 120:13 122:13,22 instance interactions 123:20,21 124:4,18,20,23 54:1 135:4 151:5 154:16,25 45:8 125:10 126:2 128:6,10,13 210:18212:19215:3 interest 128:14,16,21 129:2,10,11 265:17 267:19 274:10 33:7 34:25 129:19,25 130:4 132:22 278:18 interested 134:1,15,16,21 139:1,1 instances 33:19,21 34:4 44:23 95:11 141:3 149:18 172:5 186:14 137:11 155:1 216:2 223:9 114:22 151:18 189:8 193:20 199:4 218:5 227:3 223:11 206:24 226:11 228:9 228:1,3 229:1,6 230:21,23 institutes interesting 230:25 231:4,8,10,12,15 120:22 121:2 127:5,20 62:5 232:14,20 233:4,19,25 128:18 130:2 134:6 interfered 234:4 236:21 237:10 246:9 instruct 217:5 252:9 253:19 266:4 276:23 247:8 interference 276:25 277:12 instructed 215:6 informational 223:23 246:5 247:7 interferences 13:17 instructing 137:5 152:9 158:8 165:13 informed 247:5,11 168:2 214:6,15,23 215:2 228:15 instruction 217:2 infrared 89:24 interject 48:13 175:25 instrument 278:11 initial 34:7 43:3 48:19 78:21,21 intermediate 35:17 42:15,16 53:4 57:25 81:9 82:1,6,9,14,23 83:8,14 209:16 60:1 65:14 71:5 132:22 83:18,21,25 84:7,8,13,21 intermittently 179:5,10 85:8 87:7,20 141:19 151:1 221:13 initialed 151:11 154:9,11,15 155:4 internal 217:23 155:22 158:19 160:23,25 91:22 initially 161:12 164:3 168:21 international 222:3 228:8 169:15 170:11,12 171:1 177:7 228:25 252:25 initials 176:10 181:20 205:11,13 interpret 102:25 116:22 117:12 206:23 216:14 221:14,20 226:6 127:9 instrumentation interpretation initiated 33:21 34:3,6 39:12 96:12 20:10 67:13 138:25 46:18 130:24 131:10 226:7 interpreting initiation instruments 19:6 56:17 52:7,12,13,23 171:18 interstate inject instrument's 2:20 159:10 170:20 introduce injected integrity 4:16 86:6 84:20 155:7 164:14 216:13 139:14 introduced injection intended 162:22 206:19,21 225:7 155:15 158:19,20,22,23 16:12 150:9 163:1,2 170:7 introduction 159:16 206:17,19 170:8 183:12 189:7 injector intends invalid 159:4 279:7 198:13 input intensities invent 70:5 217:5 183:9 inquiring intensity invented 26:23 163:24 168:22 97:24 inventing 90:17 invention 183:14 inventoried 218:15 investigate 75:7 investigation 59:11 60:12 involve 134:23 involved 30:13 38:18 42:18 43:20,21 44:2 56:1,7 87:24 121:23 127:3 130:11 230:7 256:8 involvement 17:5 253:11 involves 39:10,1440:10 involving 152:17,18 ion 40:3 192:22 194:13 ionization 164:10 181:24 ions 39:5 43:23 45:6 iowa 32:2,5 43:8 irritable 199:25 isolate 78:19 isolated 84:17 114:15 115:13 152:8 213:11 isolating 87:17 isomer 157:5 243:3 isomers 55:6 87:15,21 116:15 156:11 165:15 180:7 208:22 209:1 isotope 166:11 issued 220:16 issues 59:11 127:22 246:24 251:20 255:21 266:23 275:16 276:12 item 117:2,4 127:8,19 130:6 150:12 195:19200:11,12 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055549 [item - leaders] item (cont.) keeping know (cont.) lab (cont.) 200:12 261:17 263:18,23 186:10 69:5,24 72:3,9 74:2,10,12 220:5 233:13,25 234:18,18 267:9 keller 74:20 77:21 80:17 81:5,14 244:16,17 276:21,22 items 36:18,19,20 48:3,6 56:3,3 82:8 87:12 89:7,9,13,14 laboratories 122:2 219:7 264:20 56:20 57:12 58:9,12 60:2 90:19,22 91:1,2,3 92:9,13 3:21 88:14,21 89:1,2,8,9 iv 67:25 75:6 89:7,10 90:19 96:16 97:9 101:15 102:8,11 91:12 92:8,23 94:5 95:14 131:14___________________ 108:14 117:10 122:5,10 103:16 104:25 105:3 106:8 114:1 116:17 127:24 j 123:20 127:17,23 128:16 106:25 107:23 110:4,7,17 220:21 221:24 233:21 jacks 129:3,9,20 111:17 112:9 115:25 120:3 240:19 243:14 2:3 keller's 120:4,8 123:11,17,17 131:8 laboratory james 127:9 133:5 140:22 149:15,16 16:8 18:16 19:3,15,16 51:2 2:3 kelly 153:16 154:10 157:18 67:13 89:21 90:20,23,25 jensen 73:1 89:12 90:10,21 120:10 30:20 ken 188:17 165:22 172:2 176:11 181:7 91:4,7,11 93:4 140:14 183:14 185:20 187:13,21 141:6 142:15 149:21 142:17 254:21 187:22,25 188:1,20,24 217:11 218:3,17219:2 jensen's kept 191:5,25 193:6 196:12 220:15 222:23 225:6 228:4 139:5,9,10 140:10 159:15217:14,19 197:1 208:7 212:24 214:17 231:22 245:4 jessee 236:9 kidney 151:25 214:18215:24 217:10 labs 218:3 222:2 224:20 225:3 16:6 93:17,22 94:13,14,19 job kill 225:13 228:11,17 233:12 94:22 95:10,11,13 116:11 21:3 27:12 32:21,22 34:12 268:17 233:18,22 235:13 246:11 233:7 35:12,18 36:21,22 37:7,20 kills 246:18 247:23 248:24 lack 38:9 41:5 44:25 46:8,9,24 72:23,23 77:12 101:9 110:1 86:23 kind 250:9,22 254:9,19 256:3 20:9 257:5,12 258:20 259:18 landwehr 117:4,25 119:11,15,18 19:11 31:15 33:4,10 34:6 260:19,23 261:3 263:18 236:6 120:21 121:12 122:4 124:2 36:5 40:19 42:4 46:12 47:2 264:16 265:19,22 266:4 lane 124:3,3,6 127:8 129:3 48:10 51:2,13 53:19 58:21 269:11 273:2,7 274:11 2:20 134:11 138:20,20,23 161:14,22 163:11 59:5,10 63:22 66:14 68:18 275:15 277:15,18,21 278:3 language 72:4,5,18 75:25 76:19 77:6 278:7 280:2 281:8 110:10 jobs 77:8 83:22 86:18 92:7 93:5 knowledge large 41:6 121:17,19 133:18 93:17 94:7 95:11,12 101:3 13:2,4,24 17:10 63:15 106:20 153:17210:21 johnson 101:10 120:5 136:19 91:20 102:6 103:21 106:22 larry 2:20 joined 137:25 138:21 141:7,19 147:4 149:13 150:9 153:4 106:24 107:8,9,21 108:2 2:3 4:18 248:2 131:2,5 132:6,15 133:5 late 41:15 106:17 154:6,10 157:2,6 166:2 138:13,15 177:16 187:19 9:8,18 138:6,9,15,16 172:9 186:10 206:7 220:5,6 237:24 259:12 264:18 174:17 253:1 256:1 260:25 jr 187:11,20 236:3 224:4 230:8 232:19 233:10 274:6 275:24 278:17,22 273:25 275:2 july 251:11 270:17 272:20 279:3,14 latex 57:9 113:13,19 130:23 275:8 277:15 knowledgeable 200:5 131:10 132:21 133:17 kinds 194:16 laughter 135:25 15:6,11,14 40:9 67:14 76:3 knowles 178:11 jump 91:20 135:15 137:8 175:9 2:8 law 86:21 199:13 247:1 198:15 227:19 known 2:3 28:25 29:1,2,4,5,12 jumped knew 80:22,22 81:8 82:18 85:4 lawyer 66:6 48:20 73:4 80:6,7 119:21 85:20,22,23 87:3 135:3 193:11 june 120:4,5 128:1 157:15,17 137:3,4,6 153:20 157:24 lawyers 9:22 57:6,7 176:13 188:14,17 225:9 158:15 160:1 210:6,6 211:1 29:20 252:4 jurisdictions 226:25 227:20 230:12,20 211:3 216:14,15221:18 lay 254:10 245:12 281:7 254:21 justification know knows layman 114:11 115:8,11___________ 7:15 8:2 13:22 17:4 22:1,23 131:9 259:16_____________ 173:23 k keep 77:9 103:16 114:1 217:11 26:11,14 27:21 28:16 30:17 I 30:24 33:9 34:16 41:8 45:14 50:1 51:18 55:2 56:5 lab 19:14 91:19 92:4,6,18 57:9 59:4,5 60:10 61:3,7,10 94:1895:1,1,2 217:14 leader 38:21 49:16 leaders 48:7 62:7,8 63:3,13 64:7 66:16 219:10,14,15,16,25 220:1,4 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055550 [leading - management] leading ligands location lot (cont.) 113:23 44:22 91:13,14 167:23,24 173:13 183:1 learn lightfoot lodge 211:1 252:17 254:19 45:1 134:20 218:9 30:14,16 275:12 264:21 266:15 273:14 leash liked logic 274:25 276:7,8,8 186:6 86:9 219:16 214:17 lots leave liking logical 172:13218:7 23:18 39:19 152:9 249:20 86:7 77:22 loud 249:22 limit logistics 122:15 224:14 241:20 leaves 171:18 173:11 135:15 loudly 206:23 249:5 limitations long 242:14 lecturing 193:25 24:4,9 31:4 36:23 41:5 louis 152:23 limiting 51:1865:8,1369:5,14 3:21 32:17,19 91:14 103:13 led 21:19 70:12 83:11 84:4,9 92:20 188:4,5 220:20 224:24 38:20 lindane 92:25 96:16,24 97:4,11,15 225:2,11,18,24 233:9 left 167:9 97:21 98:9,12,17 106:19 240:19 242:19 244:15 38:6 41:19 96:1 205:20 line 109:23 115:4 161:2 166:18 low 206:11 264:9 267:18 59:22 206:5 231:3 267:20 166:23,24 175:10 216:5 160:22 210:6 legal linear 225:11,14 232:22 266:21 lower 218:15 276:12 277:14 164:17 268:16 171:17 209:22 244:24 legislation lines longer lowest 114:25 116:5 50:24 256:2 275:21 12:4,7 157:6 160:25 162:20 legitimate lipids look lunch 73:3 178:21 6:167:1 19:5 24:17 33:17 25:18,22,23 95:19 lent liquid 34:1 40:1 47:15 54:4,7 lungs 52:7 153:13 155:6 158:25 60:14,15 74:20 75:2 76:11 151:25 lesson 159:21 160:1,4,5,5,6,8,11 82:20 87:23 99:14 108:14 lustrex 256:19,20 160:14 206:22 113:14 137:14 149:6 200:4 letter list 181:11 184:18,20,21 185:5 m 245:15 262:1,2 266:8,8 271:10,11 letting 3:16 8:21 11:23 92:8 127:8 143:19 145:6 188:25 237:5 265:3,24 193:12 203:14 204:4,10,13 205:19 206:14 209:6 211:10,14225:5 226:13,14 ma'am 202:24 mac 203:14 level lists 158:4 236:9 234:13 235:19,21 237:10 239:5,6 240:3 241:18 242:7 199:11,19,19,21 machine 101:15 103:1,14,18 104:6,9 literature 246:22 265:4 268:13 105:20 106:16,20 110:2 35:25 44:3,6,12 75:24 76:7 looked 84:2 88:25 165:7 173:20,21 174:2,19 222:19 111:14 157:7 171:13,24 76:9 137:2 24:10 35:25 198:23 216:5 machinery 172:21 175:19 177:14 litigation 219:16 234:9 235:1,8 240:9 2243 178:22 182:11 196:11 13:7,10,16,19,23 14:25 looking marhinpc 212:18,22 215:13 229:10 242:24 244:24 levels 67:4 119:23 178:17,25 180:1,13 194:21 201:10 210:6 242:20 254:9 lexus 97:10,13 library 72:11 188:4,5,13 lies 242:23 life 27:1,15 115:22 166:18 174:4 ligand 45:15 15:6,6,11,14 273:9 274:8 7:4,6 24:13 25:21 39:23 50:6 274:17 276:4 277:20 little 16:15 22:5 38:17,24,24 70:9 101:24 132:17 159:16 40:2,4,5,6,7,8,9 41:12 54:6 58:3 72:12 136:14,22 175:4 176:15,17,21 180:5,11 191:3 196:8 197:7 205:5,10 mail 69:25 261:18 main 35:11,17 169:17 193:17 219:24 216:3 maintain 220:11 249:13,23 260:3 266:19 278:12 live 174:7 looks 9:1599:17 117:18 168:15 214:9 losing 145:11 maintains 145:10 major liver 153:23 35:7 38:7,10 44:14 141:20 151:25 Ikv lost 186:3 163:25 making 141:17 Up lot 17:6,12,19 20:22 21:2 35:4 27:9 51:4 87:18 103:2 143:21 185:10201:2 2:13,19 39:19 48:16 54:7,7,7 76:12 78:10 88:20 95:4 142:4 management 23:2 101:1 103:2,15 104:6 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055551 [management - methods] management (cont.) matching means members 105:15 106:3 229:18 230:3 215:15216:3 53:24 57:5 82:14 101:6 124:18 238:1 244:5,5 material 102:17 113:11 121:24 membrane manager 22:1723:9 24:14,1731:19 122:3 146:18 151:24 200:1 48:5 58:12 43:25 62:24 78:19 134:25 152:15 191:25 203:15 memo managers 135:14 151:17 153:22 205:16 206:6,7,8,10 207:18 235:24,25 236:18 243:18 104:9 105:20 159:21,24 160:19,22,24 221:1,3 269:11,11 245:15 manipulate 161:1 165:16 170:24 176:9 meant memorable 150:22 197:2 206:24 207:4,25 33:6 51:22 58:4,5 59:15 109:18,24,25 manner 208:3 210:16,19214:10 60:21 65:10 102:1 222:14 memoranda 14:11 17:3 22:9 81:9 84:16 274:25 222:23 261:19 86:13 199:8 224:8 229:3 materials measurable memory manufactured 19:2 20:14 33:7,15 45:1 245:2,3 10:6,8 11:14219:25 65:12 67:22 157:4 223:14 53:24 80:22 135:5,18,20 measure memos manufacturer 139:20 140:11 142:21 39:4,5 133:1 169:20 170:18 230:9 82:21,23 141:18 142:22 148:12 152:7 153:18 155:7 174:20 199:9 204:5 208:6 mentioned 189:9 163:3 170:14 171:9 193:15 208:13,14210:16215:11 9:6 11:24 22:16 23:24 41:6 manufacturer's 263:20 measured 71:7 154:22 174:1 263:10 82:2,5 83:9 84:13 material's 85:23 139:21 198:18 280:4,5,22 281:11 manufactures 78:18 200:21 met 154:17 matrix measurement 16:9 25:21 26:5,7,11,14,20 manufacturing 39:24 84:24 151:4 152:6 133:1 137:7 156:5 196:18 27:6,15 28:9,10,14,24 197:7 154:5 196:9 202:6,6 measurements 29:17,20 30:12,24 31:13 marble matrixes 157:23 196:8 54:12 102:22 103:13,24 67:11 256:6 measures 104:9 225:19 233:19 252:7 march matter 166:22 metal 117:15 187:7 239:18 4:7 25:11 60:20 61:20 78:6 measuring 35:2 39:5 43:23 45:6 marine 87:16,18 164:9 232:16 35:2 45:11,24 47:7 48:17 metals 9:11 264:12 268:14 278:16,21 72:4 76:13 193:13,14 48:17 mark matters 200:25 201:1,5,5,6 208:19 meter 99:4 183:22 14:17 112:16255:17 mechanic 192:1,7 196:11 199:23 marked 281:10 150:21 200:15,16 4:2 6:1,13 99:5 124:3 maximum mechanically methane 144:12 148:1 183:24 184:7 50:3,11 193:4 199:15,20,22 208:5 156:2 189:2 240:11,15 268:10 maximums mechanisms method 272:4,6 199:6 137:24 35:2 96:3 133:23 146:19,20 market mcintosh media 147:24 148:8,10,22,25,25 96:17 238:8 21:20 182:11 183:20 149:1,11,12 150:6,9,11 mars mean medical 162:19 174:19 176:15,19 8:9,25 12:24 24:15 28:17 29:1 116:9 119:7,16 174:2 182:22,23 183:17 194:16 marsh 33:3 37:2 38:9 39:8 41:15 259:25 264:10 194:20 195:21 196:4 197:3 2:13 4:22 186:5 270:9 50:13 53:23 54:23 57:13 medium 197:9,10 198:17201:9 278:25 58:7,25 59:13 60:7,7,20 84:20 203:8,9 205:8 215:25 martin 65:9 74:2,4 76:12 78:17 meet 221:11 243:20 244:9,12 53:1 84:7 93:8 100:11 103:10 83:9 225:21 229:9 231:9 245:19,25 246:5 247:6,8,11 mask 108:12 115:3 119:21 meeting 247:15,20,24 276:20 199:24 139:18 140:2 142:10 28:1929:10,15 30:331:1,4 methodology mason 145:22 153:8 157:1 177:17 31:7,8,10 60:1 61:5,8 62:1 137:16 140:14 154:7 188:12 177:24 178:18 201:14 63:10,12 64:3 65:14 120:12 162:24 183:4 188:9 195:8 mass 205:15 220:13,24 222:12 120:14 232:10 275:6 277:3 139:23,24 141:15,18,22,25 226:23,23 233:8,12 234:2 meetings methods 142:3 176:25 244:7 252:3,4 255:25 28:19,20,23 30:6 77:23 89:20 113:24 114:5 match 257:20 259:16 266:8 meets 117:7 118:1 120:19 122:8 165:9 212:6,9 268:16 271:11 275:24 82:23 136:6,8 137:1 146:21 matches 280:12 member 148:23 152:10,12 221:8 212:11 108:6 181:17 223:19 225:8 226:5 241:7 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055552 [methods - neither] methods (cont.) mistake monsanto (cont.) multitude 242:23 264:21 277:7 138:24 271:7,15 20:15 21:9,10,14,18 22:2,2 137:5 mg mithoff 22:22 23:10 24:22 25:2 muscle 191:24 2:3 32:8,10,21,22 33:8,16 37:8 151:25211:15213:11 michigan mix 38:10 41:16,25 42:7 46:7 museum 31:21,23 181:18 57:14,16 76:22 98:16 59:2 67:5 80:5 microcolorimetric mixed 100:23 102:15,19,21 103:5 mutant 164:10 254:23 103:6 104:6 105:21 106:16 136:11___________________ mid mixture 106:17 107:10 108:8 109:1 n 55:13 56:23 57:3,5,10,11 156:2 181:22 110:3 111:15 112:20 name 68:25 69:1 middle 212:1,5,9 214:2 mike mixtures 54:18 156:10 model 96:15,21,23 97:10,13 114:22 127:18 142:19 144:19,25 146:9,13 170:3,7 170:12 172:12,13 173:22 175:17 182:14 220:12,14 7:20 19:16 49:14 127:9 188:22 225:16,17 named 104:22 30:20 186:3 modern 220:15 222:4 233:15 names mild 200:15 255:21 273:2 274:2 275:15 275:15 276:3 277:18,19 235:24,25 238:12 244:9,12 244:16,17 252:5 255:19 7:17 30:7 104:7 naphthalene milk 152:2,3 278:7 279:14,23,25 280:3 281:10,11,13,16 262:16 267:13,18 272:24 275:13,18 278:18 279:6 167:9 nasal miller 23:4 milligram modifications 117:25 modify monsanto's 16:16 23:3 47:10 252:24 258:17 199:25 nature 119:16 191:25 196:11 199:22 200:15 137:11,16 molecular monte 104:22 105:3 near 53:25 milligrams 192:7 200:16 million 44:22 62:23 136:17 160:18 montgomery molecule 236:5 63:24 67:21 136:24 160:8 month neat 54:16,23 55:3 163:2 170:14 171:9 178:1 210:2,24 114:20 115:18 170:22 160:11,14,15 166:5 167:2,6 57:4 93:9 171:15,16,21 172:21 173:2 167:15 169:17 193:1 monthly necessarily 52:14 136:18 139:17 173:3,21 174:21 175:19,24 molecules 177:14 178:17,18,22 179:1 43:22 45:3,5 76:17 160:2 180:2,14 182:12201:11,18 166:3 167:11 181:16 236:21 months 65:18,20 66:2,6 69:7 70:9 154:14 161:7 198:13 222:10 227:17 necessary 201:19 202:1 212:15,16,20 moment millionth 112:23 200:12 251:2,11 moore 2:13,19 4:13 30:22,24 36:15 114:6 115:20 137:16 253:18 170:24 mind monitor morning 33:25 42:23 52:10 172:7 25:7 99:3 122:19 147:5 need 6:3 59:6 67:1,2 68:1 78:23 51:17 146:25 monitored 252:8 272:12 281:21 83:20 108:15,15 114:23 mine 249:9 250:12 264:7 mineral 37:17 49:6,7 monitoring 49:3,5 238:5 mouth 61:24 198:16 move 116:1,2 132:11 135:16,17 151:17 154:4 158:11 164:12 168:24 174:3 181:9,10,18,19,20 minnesota 95:2 minus mono 43:14,18 mons 3:14,21 144:7 148:1,7 207:1,4 moved 47:5 186:5 moving 202:13 224:14 226:12 231:10 247:15 248:25 262:23 268:4 277:20 278:10 279:10 232:18 205:6 209:25 211:14 207:5 241:14 needed minute 47:9 67:4 125:21 minutes 143:1 180:20 238:24 248:5 269:7,8,10,11 msw 269:14,16,17,18,19,20,20 271:2 269:22,23,25 270:1,1,1,2,2 mullis 270:3,7,11,12,12,21,23,25 2:19 34:7 48:19 84:14 89:19 157:17 170:18232:8,10 245:11,12 needle mis 271:1,1,1,3,3,4,5,5,6,8,11 mulliss 159:6 245:22 misgivings 271:18,19,19,20,20,21,21 2:134:13 271:22,22,23,24,24,25,25 multiple needs 166:5 249:10 missed 272:1,2 monsanto 32:18 138:5 208:25 multiply negative 167:18 10:1641:18 1:1 4:8,23 9:11,20 12:9,18 13:2,7,23 14:22 18:11,14 50:16 208:16 neither 260:21 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055553 [nevada - okay] nevada november obtained okay (cont.) 10:14 11:1 236:2,24 124:19 126:2 129:9 183:6 40:14 41:5,22 42:6,10 new nowadays 211:3,18 43:12 47:8,20 48:3 51:20 33:19 34:20 47:6 77:5,7,10 215:14 obvious 51:24 52:3,5,11 53:23 79:3 96:4,12 139:1 162:24 number 245:7 54:10 55:8,10,18,22 57:2 173:21 256:19 278:7 3:7 4:5 39:19 48:6 52:23 obviously 59:7,14 60:5 61:15 63:6,18 newer 86:23 95:4 103:7 121:8,12 26:4 28:1 44:19 98:16 64:12,21 65:17,22 66:2,8 246:20 122:4 124:2,4 127:19 129:3 107:3 109:11 151:16 67:8 68:5,6,17 69:1,11 nice 130:6 134:11 135:13 169:21 212:5 217:3 230:20 70:10,1371:11,1573:6 82:12,13 87:12 115:6 167:1 143:25 146:21,22,23 148:1 237:3,13 251:13 260:12,16 74:1,5 75:4,9,20,23 76:5 168:7,14 206:5,11 208:14 148:3,4,5,6 149:2 191:2,4 265:18 273:3,22 275:13 77:1 79:20,21 80:11 81:15 213:24 193:15 201:2,3 209:1,22 280:17 81:21 82:22 83:11 84:2,5 nicer 211:9,12257:23 258:13 occasion 84:11,23 87:11,1588:11,24 206:11 259:23 260:24 261:17 109:25 90:19 92:1,1 93:1,3 94:16 nickel 263:19 267:9 271:8 occasions 95:15 96:1,10,25 98:5 155:2 166:8,9,10,10,11,17 numbered 109:24 99:14,22 100:21 102:5,8,13 nine 121:1,3,6 127:3,19 134:11 occur 103:12 104:21 106:13 16:1 81:12 248:4,14 271:11 266:15 107:1 109:8 110:20 112:12 nominally numbering occurred 113:14,17,20 114:11 115:6 48:5 149:4 13:20 22:24 41:9 46:25 115:10 118:11,14 121:17 non numbers 55:13 68:4,16 122:20 123:15 124:21 157:23 3:16 101:9 143:20 145:6 occurrence 125:6 127:13 129:5,17 nondevelopment 193:4 246:20,21,22 268:9 65:8 132:20 134:4 139:7 143:9 217:21 268:15,25 272:10 occurs 144:2,22 145:14 146:3,12 nonresponsive numerous 205:3 147:8 148:18 149:5,9,12 112:12 128:8 129:16 132:2 252:18 October 154:3 158:10 162:19 133:11 194:23 199:10 nuts 187:5 163:20 164:8,11 165:11,23 202:14 247:3 278:20 280:7,22 281:12 odor 166:16 167:16 169:1 171:7 nope 189:1 238:21 247:12 normal 5:14 219:6,9,13 north 1:1 2:14,14,20,21 4:14,14 5:14 northern 1:1 4:9 notary 1:1 2:23 note 6:4 248:3,10 notebook 219:11,14,16 220:5,18 notebooks 217:12218:18219:2,16 220:4,16,19 noted 197:5 notes 218:23 219:1,3,4 261:18 262:5,7 263:20 notice 3:8,9 6:2,8 257:14,16 258:14 notified 56:10 o 200:6 object 23:11,1569:1770:17 104:11 106:5 107:17 offer 274:10 office 108:18 112:12 126:7 128:8 129:16 131:6 132:2,9 11:3 12:13,15,24 13:6,18 29:12,22 32:17 50:14 236:4 133:11 138:21 175:12 185:10 194:23 199:10 258:22 offices 201:20 202:13,25 219:23 4:13 32:18 229:20 233:11 243:22 244:19 247:3 275:8 277:22 280:1 official 7:16 73:16,17,20 75:5 147:24 objected 70:8 objection 23:6 69:9 275:12 oh 84:7 96:6 125:17 137:22 186:4 213:14 239:13 oil objections 181:9,18,19,21 5:7 251:9 objective 110:5 113:21 233:18 245:3 objectives oils 181:10 okay 5:20,25 7:8,14 8:6 9:1,25 114:9 115:9 231:4,9 233:20 10:4,17,24 11:20,24 12:4 234:16 observation 12:11,14,23 13:2,5,9 15:5 15:25 16:19 18:1 19:14 58:6 78:6 obtain 21:8,11,12,22 22:4,7 23:17 26:11,18 27:2,17 28:9,22 90:14 150:25 29:6,20 30:17 33:12,13,16 35:21 37:21 38:13,15 39:6 171:11 172:16,18 173:13 173:19 174:3,12 175:22 176:6 177:22 178:9,10 179:3,22 182:4,8 183:22 184:5,24 185:15 186:23,24 187:24 188:7,24 189:2 190:4,12 192:6,11 196:7,20 197:23,25 198:3 200:20 201:25 202:20 203:7,20 204:10 208:20 209:11 210:17211:7,17212:5,12 212:22213:10214:8 215:24216:10217:7,14,24 218:23219:15,19220:20 222:14,21 226:22 229:13 230:3,20,24 231:20 233:6 235:9,12,21,23 236:25 237:15 238:4,14,18,22 239:16,23 240:25 241:13 241:21 242:9 243:9 245:23 246:4 250:13 252:2 254:5 256:11,23 257:2 258:9 259:22 260:11 261:6,11,15 261:16 262:8,14 263:9,11 264:9 269:6,12,14 270:19 271:16 273:21 274:20 278:1 281:5 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055554 [ol - pass] ol optimize outside (cont.) paragraph 62:11 183:11 121:5 130:6 134:9,12 241:6,19 242:5,9,11 245:8 old optimized 276:24 281:7 252:14,15,16,17,19,21 169:4 244:14 overall 253:10 olden order 20:7 paragraphs 281:12 5:17 15:25 16:15 52:21 overlapped 252:14 280:4 older 65:17,1871:1683:15,19 41:8 parallel 40:11 114:24 116:4 135:12 overly 46:21 once 137:10 204:8 247:14 248:5 14:18 parameter 19:2 34:9 37:12 44:14 45:4 ordered oversee 155:11 80:24 84:7,8,12 141:20 36:15 46:11 84:6 96:13 119:19 parameters 157:3 165:6,19 245:12 98:16,17 246:6 owens 195:8 ones orderly 1:1 4:7 paraphrase 10:1,4 14:4 15:1 67:21 68:3 88:17 114:6 162:1 172:11 ordinary p 114:12 paraphrasing 172:13 246:24 ongoing 164:4 organic 95:19,20 281:24 115:1,4 parentheses 273:1 open 32:23 40:21,22,24,25 43:22 47:21,23,23 76:17,23 100:2 199 113:12 part 94:3 161:18,21 162:25 220:8 115:12 153:17 160:8,19 240:18 154:16 3:13 40:22,25 41:10,10 42:8 46:13 59:17 72:20 operate 48:20 141:23 226:7 operates organical 3:20 organics 161 '23 1624 14 18 20 1637 106:18 110:1 113:5,11 115:18 130:15 131:14 132:8 171:23,24 172:20 141:24,25 operating 33:2 114:14 organization 155:5,6 159:1,13 173:10 175:19204:18 212:15,16,20 225:12 235:5 83:25 150:2,4,5,16 221:20 276:19 operation 49:23 238:7 operations 52:8 56:10 opinion 139:2 140:9 181:3 183:17 47:14 organizational 48:1 organized 102:20 organs 135:9 original 12:5 113:4,14,15 117:17 235:6 240:22 250:1 259:20 124:3 148:20 189:5 190:23 193:18 195:18 205:6 partial 101:18 209:23 211:24 234:25 235:22 242:11 248:3,6,9,13 250:18 252:13 269:7,8,15 partially 266:11 particle 269 16 27T16 279 5 166:11,13 particular 250:18 254:2 255:24 274:11 275:6 276:13 3:17 44:3,5,17,18,20 45:22 60:19,24 61:1,5 72:1 269:15 18:17 35:9 48:23 53:25 56:18 63:16 77:4 87:22 278:16,17,21 279:3 opinions 143:18,18 145:11,11 171:8 3:10,12 99:17 113:3 220:7 202:8,15 215:10 96:21,22 103:9 135:4 148:20 150:16 151:4 13:13 14:14,17 20:3,4,6 22:18 250:19,23 251:4 originally 97:7 mi -8 152:13 154:15,25 171:18 210:18212:19,25 213:1,6 252:10,20 253:8,15,23 ought 254:1 255:8 256:19 259:10 72:10 onn-c; 214:24 215:3 221:23 245:8 245:9 265:5 260:2 264:12 266:10,14,15 outboard 266:21 274:23 275:2 276:2 9:11 pnn-4 particularly 133:22 154:5 231:7 264:20 277:18,21,23,25 278:3,4,7 outfits 279:12,21,22 280:1,3,5 23:8 2007 partition 152:14,16 160:3 opportunity outlined 5:11 190:14 259:7 277:24 251:6 1692 parts 52:9 114:20 132:12,13 opposed 177:18 opposites 161:6 outlying 233:7,13 output 164:3 166:22 171 12 papageorge 236 10 240 20 171:15,16 173:2,3,20 174:20 175:23 177:14 178:18,22 179:1 180:2,13 182:11 201:11,18,18202:1 optical 45:18 outputs 164:6 453 pass 69:20 124:23 125:11 126:3 optimal 173:12 outside 103:11 108:23 120:23 252 18 128:7,16 129:12 166:25 167:2,7 270:16 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055555 [passed - plus] passed peachtree periodic physical 66:16 106:22 107:15,24 2:9 99:18 100:23 48:24 150:20 165:14 123:20 124:20 125:7,13,16 peak periods pick 126:8,23 128:10,12,14,21 82:12,15 136:20 157:24 104:8 204:14,19,20,24 129:20,25 169:17 158:1 164:20,21,21,22 permit picked passes 167:19 204:4,4,10,13,25 196:6 204:17 167:16 207:8 205:14,20,21 206:3,4,5,6 persistence picture passing 207:23 208:2,7,13,14,18 253:2 47:10 48:1 62:1 169:16 209:4 215:21,21,21,21,22 person piece pattern 217:3 242:25 245:8 58:20 63:11 78:4 103:19 96:12 274:14 141:3,4 164:18 peaks 122:4 124:10 127:17 pin paul 136:12 162:4,6,13,13,13 179:17 194:15 232:22 26:18 68:2 188:16 236:11 163:23 164:19 165:8 251:20 254:21 pipeline paxtaunt 168:15,19 169:6 208:21,24 personally 9:19 95:1 215:15,22 217:4 10:19 226:23 233:8 256:8 pipette pcab peck personnel 86:14,15 161:11 30:9,10 189:16 place pcb peer persons 29:10 46:12 57:22 67:11 9:9 10:1 11:25 12:2,16 67:17 117:9 172:3 14:17,21 19:23 55:5,11 Pennsylvania perspective places 56:1 65:1 85:4 86:5,6 87:22 11:3 12:12,15 13:6 66:10 67:2,3 68:4 252:23 95:4 134:19 188:7 156:25 158:6,7 160:17 people pertain plain 162:3 176:12 179:15 20:7 36:1,12 42:20,23 279:13 164:4 169:4 181:17 182:2,16201:10 46:23 47:1 51:4 52:19,22 peruses plaintiffs 202:1 214:2,6,13,14,21,22 55:20 56:3 58:2,17 62:3 7:3 99:8 235:20 1:1,1 2:2,184:19,21 258:13 215:2,5,13 216:9,18 223:16 69:20,21 72:12 76:13 78:2 pesticide plans 242:20,24 78:1089:1891:17 111:14 67:6 72:6 75:13 88:14,21 116:20 pcbs 118:23 119:20 120:6,24 221:17,18 plant 8:20 11:6,6 13:13 14:4,7,25 121:16 124:14 128:4 pesticides 18:11 21:1832:1947:16 15:3 16:3 17:7,24 18:10 134:19 140:1 141:15 142:5 72:4 74:11 75:17 76:13 51:11 189:17,20 190:24 21:9,16 22:22 23:10 39:2,4 154:10 157:17 167:17 78:12 82:4 83:1 136:10,21 191:5 195:1,15 197:7 40:22,24 41:3 46:4,4 47:3,7 172:14 174:25 175:8 183:2 183:7 200:14217:15223:16 53:7,10,14,16,25 54:2,24 200:24 220:22 223:7 petroleum 226:17 229:16 236:19 55:25 62:9 75:14,17 78:5 226:23 228:10 231:17 169:24 238:8,12 242:18 244:5 80:5 82:3 85:14,15 86:15 240:24 265:11 ph 274:8,9,16,17 87:3,13,14 96:4 109:11 people's 40:3 plants 111:7,24 112:16 121:15 44:24 ph.d. 222:5 223:7,13 231:18 130:19 133:24 134:16 percent 1:1 2:18 3:3,11 6:18 32:2,5 plasticizer 136:9,25 137:2,8,12,15,19 171:17 173:2,11,13 37:1241:1444:11 72:19 189:9 138:8,11,19 139:25 140:4,7 percentage 120:10 122:11 185:23 plastics 140:11 142:20 156:9,19,22 54:2 173:17 phase 189:12,14 157:8 158:16,23 160:2 perfect 42:19,21 46:8,9 88:3 160:3 plating 167:9 170:18 171:22,23 157:6 158:17 161:14 160:4,5,5,6,8,11,14 86:7 172:7,20 174:20 175:4,11 perfected phased please 175:19,23 176:15,16,22 244:12 155:6 4:17,25 6:16 22:13 39:16 177:13 178:16,21,25 180:1 perform phases 98:12 101:22 102:20 180:5,11,13 181:6,7,11,18 150:15 42:15 128:25 192:13 202:11 181:21 182:5,9 183:4,5,19 performance phenols 227:22 193:14,16 196:9 197:2 277:3,5 65:9 68:1 plenty 198:5,12 199:9 201:5,17 performing phenomenon 5:13 203:21 208:22,23 211:2 224:4,7 226:25 233:10 98:3 plug 214:19 216:6,11,12 220:23 period phone 158:15 222:22 223:14 242:18 8:19 31:11 69:4 84:9 88:13 39:19 69:25 255:14 256:12 plus 244:21 253:2,20 256:5 89:4 91:21 94:23 97:15 261:15 262:3 268:6 206:24 232:18 256:19 259:12 274:4 278:20 109:21 125:13 133:16 phosphate 259:12 279:15 139:17 172:7 197:14 229:4 184:10 186:25 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055556 [point - produce] point potentially pregnant primary 24:19 26:17 42:2 44:10 134:18 138:2 140:4 68:13,14,15 76:18 95:11 56:6 58:2,5,10,23 59:15,16 poultry preparation prime 59:20 64:18,22 66:17 67:24 151:23 25:5 28:15 31:2 84:23 85:5 124:16 70:2 71:25 72:8 73:8 74:16 power 87:1,5 144:23 145:18 146:1 principle 75:15 79:4 88:10 90:13,13 10:14 11:1 168:6 240:1 263:5 169:4 92:10 109:4 111:10 121:13 powers prepare principles 122:24 123:1 130:8 134:17 70:3 87:2 100:23 215:9 226:5 150:11 142:15,24 143:3 150:2 practice 256:17,18,20 prior 151:16 154:7 156:16 221:3 276:18 prepared 6:6 201:8 229:5 157:11 160:21 162:23 practiced 7:12 10:20 44:10 83:24 priority 163:14,15 170:20 196:12 220:24 276:8 90:11 100:25 148:16,18 89:21 196:14 197:14 206:9 207:8 prater 150:14 156:6 185:16 privy 207:24 218:4,13 221:23 3:8 30:11 187:10 279:13 56:5 222:2 223:6 225:24 226:16 prause preparing probability 228:18 230:8 248:17 254:8 2:13 4:22,22 5:5,22 6:9 188:8 51:25 254:25 266:7,7 276:15 7:23 8:4,11,16,23 10:12,18 prepublication probably pointed 10:23 21:19,22 23:6,11,15 90:3,14 17:2 19:1032:1246:10,18 63:22 121:21 245:18,19 23:23 24:3 25:11 26:5,8 prepublications 46:21,22 47:3 51:2,5 52:1 polar 27:5,15 28:23,24 29:24 125:9 266:3 52:21 55:13 59:20 61:17 161:1,2,4,5 37:22 69:9,17 70:17 88:2,7 prerogative 65:8 66:14,22,25 70:14 pollution 88:11 104:11 106:5 107:17 213:21 72:7,8 79:14,25 83:7 84:10 3:14 113:6,21 131:13,15 108:18 123:23 126:7,10 presence 86:2 89:4 91:8 93:11,13 132:8 132:9 142:23 143:4,7,9 14:6 180:1,6,11,13 195:21 98:22 101:11,13 110:3,4,7 polychlorinated 144:2,6 145:3,9,13,15 196:4 111:9,24 115:4 117:22 56:14 57:22 58:25 62:7 146:3,6,24 153:8 177:17,22 present 170:21 179:12 204:25 64:5 65:3,5,6 123:2 132:24 177:25 178:5 184:12,15,19 30:5 31:7 43:25 58:17 215:4,20 218:3 220:13 148:13 194:22 184:24 185:10,18 201:20 63:1678:19 110:12 114:5 225:12 239:19 246:6 port 202:25 204:11 205:4 114:18 115:16 116:7 249:10,11 255:13 259:3,5 155:15 158:19,20,22,23 209:21 229:20,24 233:11 120:18 137:8,13 156:19 problem 159:4 206:19 239:3,6,10 240:11 241:22 160:2 165:13,15 171:21 10:1049:25 101:18 116:8 portable 242:7 243:22 244:19 248:2 185:12 192:20 193:9 116:17 180:16248:18 224:2 248:10,16,23 249:17,20,24 194:13 197:2,5 199:21 251:21 260:20 267:8 portion 251:13,19,23 252:2,6 253:6 216:9 255:21 273:3,7 268:18 85:18 136:16 168:6 207:9 253:9,16,24 254:3,6,16,19 274:11 280:16,21 problems 210:15,19260:10263:1,1 255:1,5,11 256:14,21,24 presentation 107:4 163:4 264:18 257:5,10,15,20 258:10,16 109:2,5,13,19 110:16,17,20 procedural portions 258:25 259:5,16,19,22 111:7,10,21 112:14,19 251:20 132:23 193:18 260:12,21 261:7,16,23 presented procedure position 262:3,12,22,24 263:16 28:11 151:10 266:23 11:17 150:6,17,25 151:22 104:24 109:19 185:17 264:7 265:16 266:19 267:3 272:11 152:13 153:2,14 157:12 191:3,4,10 247:8 274:21 267:7,10,15 268:16,19,23 president 198:19203:12204:16 279:8 270:10,14,19 271:13 272:8 100:19 213:25 219:6,9,13 243:7 possession 272:13,17,19,22 273:17,19 pressure procedures 61:7 273:22 275:11 278:11 141:25 45:11 114:24 116:3 137:11 possibility 279:1 280:9,12,24 281:22 presumably 150:2,4 151:3 152:4 153:1 244:2 precipitations 191:4 255:3 275:3 153:5,15 158:2,18215:18 possible 39:11 presumption 276:16,19 280:23 114:7 194:4 230:23 precludes 244:1 process possibly 174:6 pretty 19:1 40:21 48:25 49:2 79:1 14:12 26:10 176:5 195:25 precursor 46:2 55:3 232:17 84:4 86:20,20,25 90:17 potassium 162:10 163:9 previous 96:2 97:17 203:22 152:24 predecessor 9:4 262:21 processes potential 238:1 primarily 33:25 49:4 52:10 156:24,25 228:20,23 predominant 20:18 95:13 130:19 255:14 produce 193:6 274:4 3:9 43:23 189:16 231:7,14 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055557 [produce - quick] produce (cont.) proposed pursuant quantum 233:18,24 243:2 258:14 85:5 13:6 247:1 produced protection pursued quarter 6:5 16:11 99:18 220:13 16:10 122:24 32:1241:1679:15 141:10 236:1 protubated put 141:11 produces 171:1 23:19 34:7 44:12,24 45:2 queeny 166:11 provide 81:12,17 85:3,10 87:10,19 32:1947:1651:9,10217:15 producing 13:13,15 32:25 33:5 69:22 159:9 161:11,24 162:2 question 37:14 162:12210:16 69:23 135:16 142:10,16,18 163:4,21 165:19,19 169:5 5:8 10:6 14:18 16:8,24 product 146:14 232:7 170:1,14,25 176:13,13 17:17,21,24 18:3,7 21:1 59:22 157:4 170:9 216:3 provided 181:19,22 183:10 193:20 22:20 23:12,16,22 24:4,5,9 production 6:11 12:2 13:5,15,17,23 198:15 208:8 212:21 250:6 25:3 26:21 27:23,25 50:15 53:22 54:9,13 210:9,12,13 14:8,9 15:3 25:7,20 40:19 261:1,9 272:5____________ 51:23 60:13 61:11 62:6 210:15,19,25 211:3 214:9 76:7 83:2 99:3 142:18,19 64:7 66:18,25 68:18 69:10 q products 144:24 146:9 149:19 223:4 q45 69:12,18,21 70:18 71:9,19 33:24 216:4 242:12 230:17 231:10 240:1 251:8 97:10 73:17,20,24 74:7 75:10,15 professional 257:18,25 275:1 277:22 qc 80:2 81:8,23,24 92:2,3,21 1:1 2:23 230:25 234:3 professor providing 34:23 238:5 163:2 qualifications 93:2,20 94:3,10,11,17 98:10 101:21,22,24,25 44:14 provisions 193:19 194:19 102:1,3 104:12,13,14 proffering 135:8 276:23 qualify 105:17 106:6,9 107:1,6,7 274:1 prowse 196:20 262:23 107:13,16,18,19 108:19 proficient 3:8 220:21,22,24 221:1 222:22 public qualitatively 136:17 112:13 117:24 122:17 123:18 124:21 125:5,15,23 program 1:1 2:24 114:21 115:18 quality 126:20 128:11 131:11 116:10 120:23 121:5 130:7 260:15,17 53:22 54:13 150:24 170:9 132:3,4,5,10,11,14 135:23 130:16 134:10,12 135:7 publication 210:14 221:7,10,22 229:2 137:21 139:8,17,20,22 136:2 242:13 project 265:3 publications 231:3,9,11 233:19 238:6,6 276:22 140:6,8,25 141:1 146:16 147:1,9,14,21 150:23 152:7 3:13 34:25 52:15 112:25 61:24 76:12 260:1,5 264:11 quantification 158:13 160:9 164:12 113:2,4,20 121:23 122:22 264:22 265:5,7 97:5 203:11,12 204:16 175:15,15 177:2,4,10,11 123:21 130:12,24 131:4,9 publish quantified 178:8,9,13 179:6,13,16,23 131:11 132:7,16,21 133:12 71:13 182:5,9 203:21 180:19,23,23,25 181:6 projects published quantify 185:12,15 186:15 187:21 99:19 67:16 116:13252:18 183:19 190:20 194:25 190:11 191:14201:4,21 pronunciation 264:23 265:18 196:10 198:12201:17 202:4,5,5,9,10,10,15,22,23 62:16 pull 204:8 213:16,19 208:12,19 216:12 229:21 propensity 86:15 159:11 quantifying 229:23 233:12 237:20 166:5 pulled 195:6 220:23 222:22 238:16 241:20 243:4,23 proper 272:4,6 quantitate 245:4,6 250:25 261:14 45:7 62:8 78:20 80:19,21 pulse 137:7 156:18 215:18 226:6 275:23 81:9 103:16 229:7 155:16 quantitated questioned properly pun 215:4 265:20 16:9 18:4 19:6 36:13 37:10 55:9 quantitating questions 37:13 81:6 82:2 84:1 pure 232:13 7:2 13:1221:8,25 27:13,19 221:15 54:11,1655:4 116:14 quantitation 27:20 28:3,5 69:22 72:14 properties 172:22 156:7,12 157:12 158:2 73:23 74:17 88:6 104:18 155:25 207:12 209:2 purest 203:24 205:3 213:25 111:2 121:14 123:13,14 253:20 55:7 215:25 243:5 133:2 134:3 138:2 174:11 property purge quantitative 179:6,10,20 190:17 191:18 181:16 156:1 137:4 151:18,19 157:21 218:7 230:14231:11 proportional purpose 203:24 233:16 235:16 251:16 256:25 43:25 208:15 196:16,17,22 quantities 275:14 proposal purposes 195:21 196:4 256:5 274:3 quick 44:10 130:10 135:11 163:1 193:3 quantity 37:23 190:3 237:20 239:5 230:10 87:3 220:14 248:17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055558 [quickly - related] quickly readily received red 65:24 66:15,16 160:10 91:24 9:8 19:2 41:14 56:7 57:13 45:17 161:6 206:23 208:21 reading 57:14 125:9,12 258:17 reduce 240:10 58:16,16 195:25 204:2 262:12 179:19 quite 209:14 241:23 245:7 recess reduced 54:22 110:1 269:3 258:13 38:2 95:19 143:12 190:7 20:12 202:5 quote ready 249:4 272:15 refer 105:7 252:22 153:6,24 recipients 62:9 83:5,6 106:23 119:3 quoted reagents 188:25 212:17 83:17____________________ 150:13,15 recitations reference r real 255:9 55:5 r&d 3:21 240:19 radioactive 25:17 27:19 59:2 63:19 recognize 85:17 111:15 132:14 140:7 118:9 254:22 156:22 170:9 174:8 190:3 recognizing referenced 12:7 references 166:9,10 208:20 209:7 228:22 239:5 24:8 44:13 raised 267:8 241:10 reality recollect referred 65:25 92:24 112:6 125:14 40:12 53:22 76:20 130:9 ran 82:6 198:21 221:12,12,13 140:5 realized 125:16 128:13,15 130:5 220:17,18 247:5 265:21 referring 221:16 range 70:1979:16 114:20 115:18 228:19 229:12 really 6:3 41:9,15 43:20 44:20,23 recollection 9:3 19:1026:1729:18 32:16 46:7 56:25 57:1 60:4 89:5 121:10 122:16,18 147:2 refers 141:11 155:13 173:12 209:16 216:16,18 243:12 54:15 55:16,19 58:4 60:20 68:15 70:11 71:12 74:12 65:16 68:22,22 70:15,25 212:17 72:16 75:5 90:12 111:6,9 reflected ranges 164:16 209:12 rat 77:2,18 88:20 95:7 140:17 163:1 167:13 169:13 173:18 210:5,8 232:16 126:5,22 129:19,24 130:8 212:23 279:21 131:23 149:3 226:15 247:6 reflective 247:10,13,19,22 16:12 160:21 194:17208:2 211:14 rate 234:1 262:20 265:10 266:15 276:14 277:4 recommend 215:9 238:18 regard 36:8 40:15 42:11 90:7 155:16,19 165:3 166:6 262:19,21 ratio 278:15 279:17 realm 276:14 recommendations 36:11 recommended 127:17 134:5,9,11,14 regarding 133:25 218:24 236:19 87:21 163:24 164:19,23 ratios reason 36:3 157:12 232:4 27:8 51:16 58:19 94:2,6,9 recommending 252:23 253:1,19 275:4 region 156:10217:5 reach 123:8 128:3 139:14 157:14 200:8 160:24 166:1 170:19 179:5 reconvene 216:21 registered 207:24 179:13 196:1 204:16 281:24 1:1 2:23 reached 207:6 reaching 229:15 238:15 242:22 254:24 279:18 reasonable record regular 4:15 6:4 37:25 38:3 95:8,17 21:3 64:20 206:7 95:23 113:1 115:7 126:16 regulatory 259:10 260:1,7 264:11 react 45:16 reacted 52:22 66:9 70:8 251:6 reasons 155:14 recall 126:21 143:10,13 144:11 147:3,7,15,17 182:25 185:11 190:5,8 202:19 203:1,2,4 205:4 209:24 228:21,24 231:1 238:19 276:12,16 reinventing 36:4 44:1 9:12,17,23 20:5 30:1 32:7 235:17 248:3,11 249:1,2,6 reiterative read 45:18 114:9 115:7 116:6 118:5,6,7,8 131:11 146:17 147:6 149:19 185:5,25 32:11 55:14 60:20,23 61:25 249:9 251:2 256:15 267:16 86:19 65:7 79:17 88:18 91:17 267:23 268:1,2,8,11,20 relate 93:3,7,22 95:7,9 100:9 272:13,14,17 281:22 16:3,4 21:9 39:2 50:8 130:7 110:19 111:12 112:13 recorded 215:22 250:23 255:24 186:12,13,23 191:6 193:11 119:24 121:9 122:23 67:4 276:3,4 281:16 198:9 199:14 200:2,3,9,18 202:19,21 203:2,3,4 209:21 125:18,22 129:2 136:1 147:16,17 149:3 185:3 records 218:14 250:5 262:10 related 7:159:9 10:1 11:4 14:17,21 241:6,11,13,17,19 242:10 242:14 245:20 247:16,18 218:13 224:22 225:13 228:18 230:6,8 232:9 recovered 85:9 16:5 18:1945:20 109:11 124:1 125:19,25 126:1,4 260:23,24 265:22 266:6 268:8 272:10 receive 128:6 237:4 recovery 81:13 146:17 246:20 273:9 274:9 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055559 [relates - rhythm] relates report (cont.) requirement responsive 277:20 99:10,18 101:3,7,11 102:8 156:1 92:2 131:7 175:13 263:18 relating 105:24 106:22 108:5,22 requires responsiveness 8:19,22 14:25 16:17 17:7 111:13 131:24 138:17 156:12 5:9 18:10 20:5,24 22:18,21 184:8,9 185:2,4,15,16,23 research rest 23:10 27:7 29:21 55:25 185:25 186:12,15,16,21 32:23 43:11,20 44:5,11,18 21:24 61:20 90:10 119:16 127:21 187:7 188:3 189:2 191:6 51:12 57:21 94:24 100:11 restrictive 127:21 128:17,18 129:3,25 201:3 236:20 239:18,21 100:17 103:17 106:16 114:25 116:5 262:9 263:25 281:10 245:25 250:16,16,17 251:7 111:16 114:2 116:12 result relation 251:16252:11,12254:1,7 120:22 121:2 127:4,20 116:4 232:17 22:2 41:3 80:3 102:15 254:11,12 264:25 274:25 128:18 130:2 134:6 154:18 results 105:19 133:22 275:20 279:19,21,23 184:10 186:25 188:12 19:19,21 22:21 71:13 relative 280:14 194:25 115:24 141:7,8 149:23 12:16 14:9 17:24 26:24 reported researchers 151:1 157:19 183:6 191:16 73:23 80:2 102:7 125:4,10 1:1 59:25 100:16 192:23 127:25 191:19 195:6 227:17243:2 129:10 147:2 199:5 238:16 195:6,11 227:1 242:22 reserve resulution relatively reporter 278:18 162:2 69:6 1:1 2:23 4:25 5:16 22:13 reserved resume relayed 39:16 62:10,17 85:15 96:9 5:8 41:13 123:12 128:24 143:21,25 145:5 residual resumed relevant 152:18 168:8,11 202:18 198:22 267:25 191:10 242:14 269:9,13 residue retained relied reporting 134:23 12:14 217:23,24 218:3 252:20 260:1,20 264:11 17:7 78:2 233:3 residues retention rely reports 135:5 82:11 168:20 212:13 264:20 265:9 14:24 15:2 56:13 100:23,25 resolution retired relying 102:4 105:24 107:14,15,24 70:24 161:23 162:16,20 105:6 145:19 260:6 265:12 108:8 226:18 229:17 209:2 267:5 retrospect remainder 232:11 237:15 240:4 resolutions 230:6 144:7,22 represent 161:16 return remediation 145:16,22 199:19 208:21 resolve 263:3 273:8 274:9,16 209:4 251:20 reverse remember representation resources 174:24 7:20 18:21 19:12,14 26:1 5:24 48:10 91:22 review 29:15 30:5 47:13 52:19 representative respect 5:11 18:23 19:23 20:15,19 55:24 56:17 57:2,24 59:3 86:12 193:8 108:4 124:2 158:6 202:12 20:22 21:2 25:9,13,17 95:8 61:15,18 77:20 89:15 90:4 representatives 214:5,14,22 215:1 120:21 121:1 127:4,19 94:18 97:8 102:24 109:8,10 63:12 respirator 128:17 146:10 147:1 111:19,21,25 112:18 125:1 represented 199:24 190:14 191:7 237:3,10 125:3,5,6 140:23 225:1 5:23 216:7 response 265:5 226:1,9 237:15 representing 6:7 70:1 82:18,20 87:8 reviewed remove 144:19 138:10 163:19 171:20 6:6 14:7,8 16:14,16 18:13 153:3 reproduce 207:19,21 208:9,17 215:10 18:15 19:18,20 20:20 22:16 removed 149:21 154:12 156:15 215:12 216:17,20,22 22:20 23:9 25:5,10 36:13 248:11 request 221:18 252:24 67:18 99:4 144:8,17,23 repeated 88:3 189:18 227:18 230:22 responses 145:17,25 190:10 259:9,17 154:5 248:17 256:22 268:11 80:23 260:6 rephrase requested responsibilities reviewing 101:22 174:15 178:7 7:7 146:13 236:20 237:7 116:23 124:19 127:10 16:5 24:23 58:3 134:5 rephrased 257:21,22 responsibility 266:2 132:17 require 42:15,22 117:10 121:25 reviews report 79:21 152:6 124:16 127:6 130:21 130:1 3:11,18,186:12,17,23 7:1,9 required responsible revision 7:11 11:12,25 12:2,4,5,6,7 43:4 142:4 150:15,22 156:3 73:21 100:6 101:12 103:2 148:9,22 12:20 13:3,5,9,11,15,16,22 229:2,8,17 254:10 276:11 103:14 rhythm 14:2 20:12 57:19 63:8 78:4 270:17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055560 [richard - sediment] richard room samples (cont.) scheme 59:24 100:15,15,16 101:11 25:11 50:18,25 51:4,6,8 47:7 54:8,11 67:7 75:14,16 85:5 101:12 102:10 108:22,23 182:16 200:4 76:14 78:11 79:18 84:3 scholarly 108:24 110:9 119:2,3,4,25 routine 88:25 90:11 91:16 98:20 260:24 120:9 124:11,22 126:8,23 5:14 36:24 86:5 179:19 116:14 135:6 140:2,2,16 science richards routinely 141:8,12 142:7,9,13,17,18 31:24 240:21,22 276:15 187:10,13,20 237:17,18 150:24 151:6,14,15 152:2,5 277:19 richard's ruabon 156:6,21,22 170:19 174:22 sciences 119:18 56:11 233:15 190:20 201:11 216:1 217:1 47:12,15,20,22 48:1,4 ridge rubber 217:21,21,22 218:21,25 76:24 233:14 159:7,7 220:23 222:4,8,23 226:5 scientific riesbourgh's ruin 227:24 230:12,14 232:2 14:12 138:25 181:1 183:17 266:3 159:22 242:18 243:6,13 245:10 252:22,25 256:19 259:25 right rules 255:22 274:3 276:5 280:7 260:5 264:10 7:25 8:23 11:16 16:14 18:2 5:3 281:13 scientist 18:6 19:18,22 21:8 24:2,6 run sampling 111:16 138:10 175:16 24:13 25:21 26:16 27:8,11 81:18 84:3 85:4,6 142:2 17:6,12,22 18:8,9,14 19:8 179:25 180:4,10 182:19 31:6,14 33:12 35:6 36:20 153:24 160:20 165:6,7 20:16 22:21,24,25 23:3 191:25 37:19 38:6 40:18 42:25 168:4,6,17 181:24 190:2 81:17 151:3 191:10273:9 scientists 43:16 45:8 46:15 47:5,9,14 205:11 209:19 214:8 273:10,10,11 56:13 62:21 190:19 193:20 47:25 49:11 51:1 52:2,24 221:13 saponification 195:3 54:17,20,25 55:8 57:7,12 running 152:24 scope 60:1 61:12 62:25 63:9 54:12 88:25 164:15 165:1 saran 12:8 38:18 76:2 150:9 64:17,25 65:4 70:15,20,23 221:15 189:10 272:23 72:16 74:22 78:8 79:8,11 rush sat scot 79:17 81:2,3 82:17 84:19 83:16 263:6 161:21,21 162:7,8,10,22 84:20 85:2 89:3,6 93:14 rust satisfied scott 94:12 98:4 104:4,17 105:24 238:7 140:15 230:12 1:1 2:173:3,11 4:6 6:18 106:10 107:13 113:9 117:5 s save 95:22 117:10,12 119:9 118:18 119:6 123:5 124:21 128:22 133:16 143:8 146:6 147:25 154:23 160:15 safe 257:6 safer 263:14 saw 35:25 36:1,2 60:23,24 61:1 178:1 242:8 251:16,24 254:20 255:14,20 260:13 262:13 273:22 275:14 165:21,21 171:18,25 173:5 173:8 175:7 178:11 180:24 1146 sales 61:1,5,9,16,22 108:5 175:5 278:13,19 279:7,12 218:8 sealed 184:25 185:9 188:2 190:13 191:12,15,20 206:11 18918 salt saying 159:5 11:14 55:20,21 61:4 70:9 sealing 209:22 213:3,5,16 214:4,7 85:19,24 75:6,12 110:20 131:6,8 159:8 214:11,16218:11 220:12 221:9 223:6,22 231:16 236:22 237:9 238:17 salts 407 sample 138:6 145:23 161:10 seals 172:11 180:8 192:6,10,12 159:11 192:15,24 254:4 260:21 search 239:23 240:14 243:18 244:23 247:23 248:1 249:18 252:1 253:6,9,16,24 254:18 255:5 256:21 39:22,24 40:1 79:23 80:1,9 80:12 83:6,24 84:15,22 85 5 8612 14 87 1 5 142 2 150:22 151:8,17 152:4,10 269:10 says 9:11,20 82:21 113:4,10,19 117:25 118:1,7,18 121:9 243:4 second 6:10 32:20 38:16,17 46:15 51:10 71:21 73:13 74:9 258:16 261:9 263:21 152:12 153:6,11,21 156:19 131:5 157:21 186:1,19 107:13 124:3 141:11 264:14 267:3,14 268:4 270:10 278:6,19 281:20 road 47:3 207:7 157:8 158:17 159:5,10,12 160:19 161:24 165:8 168:5 16812 176 7 177 13 18 25 178:17 180:11 189:24 188:2 195:19 196:2 199:21 164:21 165:8 202:5,9 222:7 206:17 236:7,16,18 239:15 222:9,24 223:20 224:5,17 240:20 250:19 252:16,18 226:24 233:17 252:15 252:19,21 253:4,10,17,21 secondly robert 192:7,8 194:21 201:16 263:24 232:2 2:7 4:20 117:10 rodents 202:1 206:18,21 209:7 210:3,13,15,25 211:8 212:2 scale 207:7 section 50:13 51:7 76:24 115:8,9 198:6 role 212:17,23 213:18 244:25 245:5,9 scene 178:16 116:6,19 150:18,19 151:2 156:7 203:23 223:1 35:11 40:14,1641:1 samples 14:7 16:7 18:25 33:7 45:24 schedule 279:11 sediment 151:14,15 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055561 [seeing - solvent] seeing service shown site 136:12 185:3 230:9 237:15 114:4 99:15 114:18 115:16 36:10,17 seen services shows situation 14:13 54:20 121:15,16 236:7,7 189:5 204:14 207:3,21 7:16 8:22 12:3 18:20 22:3 170:21 171:9 185:2 198:9 session 236:12 29:21 56:1 65:1,3 87:14 220:4 237:11,13 258:19 105:11 147:5 279:11 sic 174:24 206:12 228:15 selectively set 3:8 246:8 156:23 5:3 42:15,16 51:3 80:24 side situations selectivity 81:25 83:22 84:2 141:4 50:21,22 82:16,16 184:3 165:12 228:7 168:1 149:21 223:16 224:1,3 205:18,19,20 206:2 209:15 six self 225:10 249:17 274:24 sign 83:17 252:13 263:23 159:8 sets 5:11 sixth semantic 143:22 signal 252:21 180:16 settled 166:23 167:1 169:20 170:2 size send 139:19 171:2 50:7,25 219:22 108:15 230:14 setup significance skill senior 41:3 67:9,10 149:20 32:23 103:17 106:15 setup's significant skip 111:16 83:20 18:8 65:11 70:4 121:14 86:23 120:17 sense seven 243:10 244:25 slow 38:18 58:20 142:13 156:8 50:1 silva 39:16 167:22 207:13 234:14 severe 1:1 2:22 small 276:11 277:2 200:17 similar 210:20 sensitive shake 67:21 185:17 254:12 smarty 77:7 113:23 170:23 171:3 81:18 simmons 179:17 176:5 shape 265:19 smiling sensitively 82:13,13 151:20 205:14,16 simple 94:2 166:3 206:7,8 230:19 85:11 132:14221:17,18 smith sensitivity share simpler 2:13,184:13 163:3 170:18 71:13 130:3 142:7,9 231:12 177:11 sodium sent shared simplest 86:3 87:16 222:9 225:4 236:11 262:1,1 36:12 227:4,24 228:1,4 84:23 soil sentence shelf simplified 151:14,15 182:10 114:13 76:25 196:6 sold separate shields simplistic 120:5 155:21 161:16 162:3,5 2:7,8 4:20,20 235:4 249:5 39:10 40:10 179:18 213:24 sole 163:11,12 173:16209:3 shipped simply 142:21 211:23 261:3 52:8 37:17 38:11 54:6 60:6 solely separated shoots 66:18 71:6 90:20 105:9,17 198:24 82:10 163:20 160:15,22 206:22 110:7 112:13 178:13 solid separately short 196:13 250:19 255:8 39:24 153:13 159:25 6:25 24:9,11 88:3 186:6 simultaneous solids separates shortly 242:1 40:6 86:2 161:13,14 163:6,14,15 46:19 61:17 64:13 66:22 single soluable separation 69:6 74:25 87:17 156:9 205:11,12 40:7 85:16,17,24 155:7 160:16 shot sir soluble septa 153:4 9:7 25:24 35:20 42:9 64:11 85:14 159:11 shots 104:13 105:17 108:4 117:2 solution septum 89:15 132:2 143:25 166:15,17 45:14,16,17 85:21 87:3 159:6 show 175:14 179:4 190:16 182:3 194:14 267:5 sequence 110:11 205:22 206:1 213:7 191:23 192:5,9 197:22 solutions 282:3 234:25 238:22 198:14 222:17,20 235:17 39:15,21 82:3,6 150:14 sequentially showed 251:1,3 269:13 281:4 solve 248:4,14 271:9 46:22 139:12 172:12,14 sit 43:4 series 183:5 184:16 184:3 solvent 21:25 83:3 84:20 152:15 153:17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055562 [solvent - sticking] solvent (cont.) special speed standing 158:16,22 146:23 152:6 156:12,13 34:20 35:8,18 117:12 167:14207:16,18 solvents 231:7 spent 216:5 153:16 speciality 225:5 stands somebody 242:12 spiked 128:3 199:20 23:19,19 48:20 57:18 73:24 specific 87:13 stapled 76:4 110:9 246:12 257:4,9 18:17 27:9,20,22 28:16 spiral 271:10 somewhat 31:8 32:11 34:12,13 40:14 155:4 159:3 start 48:7,9 40:16 43:11,22 52:14 71:22 spleen 8:20 25:1231:1532:10,17 soon 74:9 75:4 77:7 88:19 89:4 151:25 44:20 72:13 79:11 81:15 71:14 90:13 93:9 103:10 112:5,10 spoke 86:24 96:22 116:10 120:23 sophisticated 113:23 125:20 129:19,21 90:20 262:3 121:5 130:6 134:12 139:7 97:2 276:7 131:22 149:7 157:5 160:17 spoken 208:4 245:11 249:18,19 soren 166:2 194:5,17 197:4 202:6 67:17 started 73:1 89:12 139:5 216:15 220:15 229:13 spring 25:14,17,18 32:7,14,19 sorry 238:20 247:21 251:9 123:5,10,24 124:23 126:9 41:25 42:7 49:15,19 53:9 7:5,22 11:18 18:1 23:7 264:13 265:13 266:23 126:24 53:13,17 55:23 72:12 81:16 39:17 43:15 60:25 66:1 276:4 St 85:1 88:25 90:17 131:4 73:19 80:14 85:15 91:10 specifically 3:21 32:17,19 91:14 103:13 174:17 187:3 96:9 131:1 143:14 152:18 8:20 11:13 13:16 19:12 117:12 188:4,5 220:20 starting 152:20 161:20 168:8 186:4 21:13 33:2 35:13 44:25 224:24 225:2,11,18,24 45:1 79:4 84:3 134:9 242:14 256:1 257:21 281:3 52:10 56:11 61:18 65:25 233:9 240:19 242:19 234:12 sort 72:17 77:20 88:18 90:5,22 244:15 starts 13:14,17 18:25 19:7 20:11 92:23 93:19 98:6 99:20 stack 5:3 83:4 150:7 207:17,25 39:13 41:20 44:13 55:21 109:10 111:20 112:10 6:5 25:19 144:2,16 145:4 state 58:21 63:17 70:1 72:7 76:6 121:20 122:3 124:22 125:2 145:12,24 146:13,19 31:23 34:2 36:1 138:1,14 84:19 91:16 99:10 105:3 125:14,22 128:15 129:4 239:25 270:16 272:3 138:14 154:13 191:22 110:22 112:6 120:7 123:3 130:4 136:3,13,25 137:2 staff 193:21 194:15 198:16 124:15,20 128:6 133:2 145:17,25 146:13 183:4 222:15 236:3 237:7 240:21 200:25 202:11 227:2,15 134:25 135:9 139:16 220:18 224:22 226:1,20 240:23 230:17,17 235:17 236:4 142:11 150:3,25 163:4 227:18 229:14 236:13 stage 273:24 274:2 164:17 170:16 183:15 252:4 259:24 260:13,22 139:11 217:9 232:21 stated 198:7 217:22 221:21 226:8 266:2 281:6 stages 29:17 101:19 113:3 186:16 226:14 229:6,10 230:9,15 specifications 221:25 196:21 200:23 217:8 234:7,11,17 254:11 263:7 82:24 83:8,9 84:14 197:10 Stamford 243:12 264:17 276:17 specifics 9:16 statement sound 198:8 230:16 stand 14:9 115:5 148:11 203:1 7:17 85:11 specified 15:19 102:25 199:16231:6 241:11 272:19 278:9 sounds 159:15 standard statements 5:20 11:22 188:22 225:17 specifies 81:4,7 82:5 83:6 85:7,8,21 134:14 185:11 246:17 281:18 154:23 155:3,5,12,15,16,19 85:25 87:23 150:1,4,5,6,16 states source specify 157:6 158:7 164:14 168:5 1:1 4:9 9:10 177:8 186:23 121:9,12,15 126:3 130:18 193:13 168:13 208:8 210:5,20 186:24 193:13 199:18 139:19 166:12,17 193:1 specs 214:6,9,14,22 215:2 221:14 status sources 141:18 276:19 111:13 116:6,7 138:5 194:7 spectrometer standardized stay south 141:16,23 176:25 277:9 143:18 9:21 32:20 51:10 222:7,9 spectroscopic standards staying 222:24 223:20 224:5,17 49:6 54:13 80:23,25 81:3 82:3 33:12 164:16 279:24 226:23 233:9,17 spectroscopy 116:18 142:11,19,20 step speak 33:18 35:2,19 39:2,12 150:23 168:24 172:23 86:20,20,23 151:10,16,21 110:10 42:1243:6 48:11,13,14,14 197:15,22 209:20 210:4,7 153:23,24 speaking 48:17 49:4 52:24 53:6,10 211:5,22 212:3 216:8 steps 39:22 43:5 53:12 176:1,2 221:12 231:21 232:14,15 68:4 84:18 154:1,4 spec spectrum 275:7 sticking 139:23,24 141:25 142:3 141:24 159:6 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055563 [sticky - tasked] sticky 239:12,14,20 240:20 stipulate 267:16 272:25 stoichiometric 157:23 stop 213:13 store 218:5 220:6 story 51:11 straight 153:5 167:4 strange 95:6 street 2:9,14 4:14 32:20 51:10 222:7,24 223:20 224:6,17 226:24 233:17 strikes 203:13 strips 217:18219:11 structure 45:7 62:23 136:17 244:5,6 structured 276:10 structures 44:22 stuck 248:8 student 152:22 studies 114:13 115:11,23 134:22 135:12 146:23 198:4,7,11 study 114:5 183:12 193:3,11 198:11 200:24 stuff 24:10 43:19 47:2 90:4 137:25 206:7 stumbling 174:11 subdivision 100:2 subject 61:20 77:4 102:7 107:22 112:4,15 129:22 137:5 194:16251:13 subjects 250:20 submit 226:17 submitted 187:7 228:20,23 submitting 229:17 subsequently 61:22 substance 16:4 61:21 63:3 subtle 62:18 successfully 176:2 suggest 202:18 suitable 96:14 suite 2:4,9,14 sulfuric 152:25 summer 68:23 138:7 sun 171:19,21 superiors 72:14 supervise 40:16 supervising 41:1 supervision 223:5 supervisor 38:21 236:8 supervisory 226:10 supplement 254:7 supplementing 275:20 supplied 10:12 supply 261:10 support 33:1,4 34:24 40:20,20 47:23 161:2,18,21 162:24 238:6 supported 229:7 support's 161:4 supposed 36:6 37:15 168:15 197:16 243:16 246:13 sure system (cont.) 6:168:1,16,17 17:1,16,19 164:15,16,25 165:2 166:2 18:21 19:23 22:15 24:4 168:3,4,9,10 169:11 171:5 26:22 28:1 29:2,17,18 30:2 171:8 172:19207:2 209:2 31:17 37:9 40:18 42:23 systems 52:3 54:12 56:12 58:4,23 77:8 135:1,19 169:12 176:4 68:1 81:1 82:1,7 83:20,25 176:6 181:10,23__________ 86:10,12 87:18 88:7,16,20 t 94:20 95:8 103:20 106:8 109:9,25 110:1 115:24 table 50:21,22 85:18 190:23 118:12,13 123:7 128:20 135:12 143:4 144:10 161:8 172:3 178:5 181:1 184:6 191:17201:13206:14 273:15 taken 1:1 2:18 9:12,15,16,21 11:10 38:2 54:9 95:19 11:7 213:14,22 218:19,22 99:17 143:12 151:21 190:7 220:17 221:12,14 224:19 225:6,8 226:20 227:6 211:2 249:4 272:15 talk 234:14,23 240:9 242:15 243:15 246:19 248:23 6:3,24 47:8 242:4 250:20 251:6 253:5,14,21 267:1 249:15,24 251:10 257:9 258:25 260:9,25 267:7 273:15 275:18 279:4 278:2 280:17 talked 5:4 10:2 14:22 15:1 35:17 surprise 17:12 73:14 77:13 90:24,25 91:17 120:9,12,14,15 122:6 surprised 134:19 surprising 123:22 124:5 126:24 127:16 129:1,7,13,15 144:15 150:8 171:6 202:7 57:23 surrogates 245:17 280:19 281:9,12 talking 221:16 suspended 40:6 31:9 48:1662:11,1263:4,7 66:13 71:3 78:1 84:6 92:11 92:12,16 93:25 96:18,19,20 suspicion 65:23 98:5,23 107:22 109:22 112:3 117:3 123:8 127:7 swear 4:25 28:25 129:14,22 138:9 143:23 144:4 166:14 171:25 175:9 Sweden 177:20 191:8 194:22 198:2 56:13 57:18,21 61:21 62:2 69:16 89:12 138:11 swept 206:1 208:22,23 209:23 213:22 227:8,9,11,14 229:5 229:14 235:13 241:8 159:12 sworn 5:1 6:19 Sydney 251:23,25 254:20 275:25 278:5,15 281:3 talks 114:21 151:2,3,13,14,23 1:1 2:22 152:1,2,3,3 253:13 symmetry 206:8 synthesis 43:21 tape 4:5 95:21 190:2,3,6 268:1 target 117:15 synthetic task 159:7 syringe 120:17 130:20 tasked 159:9,11 system 76:8,11 117:8,9 118:24 119:22 120:19,24 125:8 80:24,25 81:1,5 135:22 149:4 154:24 156:5,17 130:3 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055564 [tasks - third] tasks tell (cont.) testify (cont.) things (cont.) 119:19 127:2 108:14 112:8 118:2 123:19 278:19281:17 55:21 67:14,15 72:7,23,23 tatton 134:10 143:15 156:17 testifying 76:6 77:6 84:19 86:18 90:4 265:19 158:9,11,13,14 176:22 185:13 255:17 91:16,20 102:23 103:20 taught 177:1 181:12,14 182:1,15 testimony 105:12 110:24 111:1 112:5 223:7 231:18 185:9 201:19,25 203:15 7:14 16:4 25:6 37:7 109:17 120:7 123:3 124:14 128:5 tc 212:14 220:4 221:4,19 109:21 110:15 173:19 133:8 135:9 136:21 137:9 172:6,8 238:19 239:10 241:2,4 175:17 176:14 182:5 139:16 140:3 142:11 teach 242:16 243:20 255:12 198:10 200:20,23 201:8,8 146:23 150:1,3,24 152:17 42:20 258:23 259:3 260:4 261:11 256:9,10 260:7 261:22 152:19 157:20 158:17 teaching 274:20 277:24 263:1 264:2 272:20,24 163:4 164:17 167:18,23,24 40:19 telling 275:9,25 278:25 279:2,3 168:1 170:16 175:1,1 179:8 team 103:21 107:25 109:7 testing 199:14 206:25 217:20,22 59:17 219:24 232:9 247:19 16:16 17:6 18:1320:16 218:10221:21 226:7,14 tear tells 22:21,23,24,25 23:2 24:23 227:25 229:5,10 230:9,15 271:12 81:11 82:11 208:17252:14 tests 234:13,16 240:1 248:25 technical 252:15 273:15 275:2 193:24 194:5 200:21 216:8 261:20 263:7,10,24 264:17 37:10 42:22 59:9 62:1 temperature 276:5 265:10,11,20 276:17 63:10,10,23 103:19 110:10 155:1,9,13,16 158:21 texas 281:10 120:11 142:4 223:4,5 236:3 159:15,15,17,18,19,20 2:4 think 236:7,7 237:7 255:18 207:1 text 5:126:3 7:25 8:11,12 10:15 259:25 264:10 temperatures 118:2 123:3 10:22 11:5,20 15:3 18:16 technician 165:3 thank 20:13,18 21:6 23:23,24 225:3 tends 95:15 186:8 190:12 192:15 25:14 26:9,9 30:13 32:14 technicians 10:8 204:22 239:2 242:6 38:6 50:4,4 51:13 52:20 37:15 40:17 tentatively thanks 55:13 56:11 58:1 60:7,10 technique 114:16 115:14 143:9 62:8 63:6,7 71:5,6,25 72:20 33:19,23 36:17 37:12 39:4 tenure theoretical 72:21 74:3 79:21 80:1 39:5,13 42:17 43:3 45:23 112:20 138:25 204:25 274:12 83:12 88:9 91:7,11 93:2,11 48:18,24 49:6 80:16,19,21 term thermal 95:3 96:1 97:22 100:14,15 87:1 136:16 139:12 176:22 39:7 55:4 63:23,25 102:13 169:14,23 172:9 181:24 100:18 103:16 109:4 111:4 176:23 183:1,2 192:16,23 102:15 103:9 199:11 238:7 111:23 112:7 121:13 196:24 242:25 245:9 227:12 233:25 thesis 132:18 133:7 134:14 techniques termed 41:18,20 43:11,12,13,17,20 136:11 137:23 138:9 19:4 38:19 40:12,17 47:2,6 154:18 thick 139:16 140:20 161:9 49:3,5 72:24 75:19,25 76:3 terminology 219:22 269:3 188:22 191:10 193:17 76:10 84:23 129:10 142:14 154:20 thin 202:16,16 203:17,20 215:8 243:2 253:19 259:13 terms 10:15 204:14,16,17 205:2,22 technologies 20:10 21:6 38:24 82:19 thing 209:6 212:8 219:21 220:10 77:10 175:22 183:10 93:8 97:25 99:19 105:19 19:12 33:11 36:24 42:4 220:11 222:6 225:20 234:9 technology 120:1 147:13 149:25 46:12,20 48:10 52:6 55:24 236:10 238:17 239:19 34:21 35:9 53:13 79:3 158:18 161:16 166:18 58:21 66:14 67:19 72:5 241:1 243:9,25 244:1,3,8 97:19 173:25 174:17 168:23 212:13 213:21 73:3 76:19 79:5 80:11,24 244:20 245:24 247:1,16 175:18,20 177:12,15 260:9 266:1 276:16 81:25 82:17,24 83:7,22 251:7,19254:6,14255:11 178:14,15,20,24 179:3,24 test 87:17 101:10,13 119:22 255:12,19,23 256:21 258:3 182:8 116:10 120:23 121:5 130:6 133:1 136:20 142:11 258:5 259:2 260:4 263:16 telephone 134:9,12 191:2 150:18 153:12 154:6,9 264:14 265:14,17 267:5,10 2:5,10,15 tested 164:13 165:20 168:18 267:12 269:1 275:7,12,20 telex 135:3 170:14 174:9 193:6 199:7 276:6,9 277:1,7,8,9,10,10 56:8,9 57:14 60:17 61:16 testified 230:8 233:4 249:11 257:11 278:12279:10280:12,14 69:24 78:9 6:19 14:20 15:13 257:12 271:6 272:5 281:18 tell testifies things thinking 10:4 46:23 74:5,6 79:20,25 253:21 13:14 14:13 18:25 19:6 69:20 81:21 85:9 92:10,22,22,24 testify 20:10 21:14 27:9 33:25 third 93:16,22 94:14,16,19,22 108:2 252:22 253:11 35:3,5 39:13,14 40:9 41:20 42:21 79:14 120:17 164:21 98:14 99:7,11 100:13 255:20 267:16 273:23 42:2,3 44:8,13 45:12 51:13 242:11 252:16 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055565 [thirdly - tweak] thirdly time (cont.) tore trillion 232:4 239:21 241:4 244:17 271:16 171:24 thought 249:17 250:9 256:4 258:18 total trouble 36:8 38:7 55:20 64:4 70:3 262:9,17 263:2,3,3 266:21 16:1 40:5 193:23 194:4 209:14 72:9 84:5 96:6 99:12 123:6 268:17 276:16 277:21 195:11 243:1,7 true 123:7,15 127:15 135:5 279:20 totally 108:1 198:6 204:5,6 231:9 142:16211:12 timely 62:23 258:21 260:7,8 thousands 153:12 touch truthful 94:5 times 114:1 257:4 59:2 63:19 111:15 170:10 three 15:16 26:7,10 27:6,14,16 toxaphene 228:22 241:10 16:18,20,21 17:8 21:15 31:19 50:16 102:23 112:5 167:10 try 26:10,17 27:16 37:3 50:9,9 170:22 171:21 176:8 toxic 59:8 69:22 80:8 81:22 50:9,10,16 87:6 88:6 208:16 212:13 225:19 114:7 189:16 104:18 112:1 123:17 118:23 143:21 179:10,21 242:21 244:23 262:4 toxicity 156:18 188:8 193:10 194:7 209:5 211:23 214:21 timing 116:9 135:11 249:14 267:5 269:5,5 215:15 219:7 225:23 241:5 34:5 toxicological trying 242:11 246:23 259:23 tissue 134:22 135:7 16:23 17:14 18:21 20:25 261:12 267:9 134:23 152:2 toxicologist 26:18 35:6 50:4 51:22 throhdal tissues 197:24 52:19 55:23 66:19 68:2,21 104:22 105:3,4 106:8 135:8 151:24 toxicology 71:1573:8,11 75:1081:16 throhdal's title 116:10 120:21 130:10 102:3 112:6 126:13 140:23 104:24 104:25 105:1 150:7 186:12 134:15 147:13,23 171:11 172:2 throwing 186:19,23 trace 179:18 180:21 183:16 85:19 titration 82:8 116:12 256:5 274:3 213:15218:9 231:6 279:5,9 thrust 39:14 trained tryon 35:11 titrations 37:15 47:1 226:4 230:11 2:20 4:14 time 39:11,20 231:17,25 tube 5:13 18:5 21:25 22:13 toby training 166:9 23:17 24:19 25:16,25 26:4 225:18,19 226:2,4 tubular 28:24 33:13,20 35:1 36:18 today transcript 161:18,22 162:25 36:23 40:23 43:16 46:11 8:25 25:6 36:25 97:3 10:13 282:3 tucker 50:5 51:18 52:20 55:17 105:18 144:18,20 150:2,5 transfer 1:1 2:173:3,11 4:7 6:15,18 56:6 58:2,5,23 59:7,20,24 154:13 162:1 163:10 42:20 137:24 8:19 34:18,19 74:14 75:7 61:4,17 63:1,15 64:22,23 172:15,17 185:14215:19 transformed 95:22 96:1 104:3 109:17 65:2,4 67:24 69:4,19 70:3,8 249:13 254:20 258:19 228:13 115:7 117:11,13 119:9 70:19 71:25 72:8 74:20,25 260:7 263:8 276:7,18 277:8 transition 131:9 144:8,15 145:17 75:15,19 78:5 79:4 82:11 277:12 278:20 280:8 46:25 88:2,10 182:15 184:16 186:3 205:5 83:19 85:8 86:22 88:19 281:14 transitional 209:21 250:22 252:10,10 89:5 91:21 92:10,17,20,25 today's 45:6 264:11 272:20,25 274:10 94:23 97:4,12,15 98:9 4:4 275:6 transmit 281:2 100:10 102:14,20 103:5 told 5:18 tucker's 104:5,8 105:10,18,22 57:12 74:16 75:1 94:10 transmitted 6:12 272:24 106:17 107:11 109:1,4,22 123:2,9,11 147:5 233:1 230:21 tuesday 111:13 112:19 121:14 245:11 246:8 280:20 transwestern 1:1 125:13 128:24 130:23 tomorrow 9:19 turn 132:6,16,23 133:3,13,17,17 249:12,14,15,18 255:7 treat 36:11 45:17 63:12 148:24 134:17 138:1 139:17 263:14 278:2 151:7 149:15 195:18268:3 140:13 142:15 149:4 150:2 tonight treating turned 157:11,13 161:3 162:21 256:17 259:1 268:13 84:16 37:16 142:19218:15 163:18 164:14,18 168:20 tools treatment 223:15 168:20 169:10 170:7 171:1 72:24 150:21 152:7,16,17 turner 175:10 178:11 197:14 top trial 225:16 226:2,4 207:3,7 218:4,13 220:1 7:22 8:3 113:4 191:3 212:6 14:20 15:13,16,18 turns 221:23 222:16 227:8,10 212:10 239:14 tried 138:4 229:11,14 230:8 235:21 topic 79:18 80:12 106:14 156:16 tweak 237:2,16,20 238:3,24 56:18 176:3 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055566 [twice - vinyl] twice understand (cont.) unspecified varied 15:18 26:9 29:8 37:1,4 50:15 62:19 153:17 216:14 type 66:19 67:2 68:21 71:17 unusual varies 39:13 40:11 65:23 91:5,16 72:24 73:7 74:6,8 75:3 155:25 266:20 200:14 93:24 150:20 153:2 157:1,5 78:23 85:13 92:11,19,21 upper variety 159:7 226:10 240:4 276:6 104:19 122:12 126:15,18 103:1,14 105:20 113:9 156:25 277:5,7 127:15 128:9 132:4 140:17 usda various types 143:23 146:2 147:21 114:3 33:8 45:6 52:8 228:13 153:1 161:17 208:24 158:12 174:25 177:3,10 use 274:4 typewritten 180:18 205:2 213:15 227:7 19:4 39:4,5 53:7,9,13 55:4 variously 118:2 231:14 232:14 245:12 55:5,7 68:12 100:1 102:13 105:11 typical 254:3 259:21 265:9 266:18 116:17 152:10 156:16 varying 14:14 understanding 165:1 166:1 175:25 176:1 156:10 typically 5:5,6,24 37:6 43:2 63:1 176:22,23 177:4 179:23 vc 209:18 66:24 68:7 69:11 74:24 180:17,17 183:3 200:8 7:2 typist 79:22 80:6 102:19 107:4 201:15202:2 215:17216:1 venue 41:17____________________ 138:12 141:1 201:14204:2 231:2 233:24 253:12 256:4 104:2 u 224:1,6 236:25 258:11 276:18 279:7 u.s. 261:4 uses 142:21 uc 214:14,25 understood 67:19,20 137:24 146:5 225:7 234:16 246:3 279:8 97:15 242:24 usual 189:21 uh 33:14 116:24 118:17 121:4 undertaken 189:19 usually 83:17 171:21 206:21 122:14 224:13 uls 62:12 undoubtedly 83:2 84:25 243:14 unfair 242:15 utility 277:13 ultimate 71:9 193:17 unfamiliar utilized 38:20 ultimately 13:8 38:20 71:6 227:4 228:4 240:4 uniform 276:20 utilizing 268:1 uv ultraviolet 176:1 unique 164:13 181:15 156:24__________________ v unadulterated 172:22 uniqueness 169:11 vacuum 141:25 unaltered unit valid 243:4 unanimous 30:19 208:10 united 1:1 4:8 9:10 177:8 115:24 140:10 validation 276:25 unaware 198:4 unchanged 158:6 165:18 214:5,22 universal 167:25 169:24 172:19 universe 259:12 validity 116:13 117:6 118:1 122:7 136:5 137:10 value unconfirmed university 193:7 78:6 undercount 243:10 244:25 undergoes 31:21,24 32:1,4 43:8 95:14 114:3 116:16 unknown 114:15 115:13 157:25 vapor 97:7 158:25 160:2 189:15 189:20,22 190:24 195:20 196:3 213:8 158:6 194:21 195:21 196:4 vaporized undergraduate 31:20 214:2,13,21 216:21 unknowns 158:24 vaporizes underneath 187:15 80:17 unpublished 159:10 variations understand 90:14 158:1 verbal 78:6 138:10 verbally 90:7 verification 276:24 verified 277:13 verify 141:5 157:19230:15 versus 4:8 9:11 82:20 167:20 202:6 218:8 276:15 277:5 vessel 86:8,8 vessels 150:20 vi 3:13 132:8 vice 100:19 vicinity 21:18 video 4:6 268:1 videographer 4:4,24 37:25 38:3 95:17,21 143:10,13 186:2,8 190:1,5 190:8 205:25 206:16 249:2 249:6 267:23 268:3 videotaped 1:1 viewpoint 54:5 59:9 60:16 67:1 104:14 173:24 181:1,2 193:18 230:25 vinyl 189:10 14:16 16:24 17:1 28:3,5,8 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055567 [vinylidine -wright] vinylidine wanted (cont.) went (cont.) witness (cont.) 189:11,12,14 89:20 104:16 110:11,11 225:9 237:14 252:15 263:7 261:21 262:6,11 264:1 visible 134:18,20 149:14 177:12 wet 266:1,6 269:2 275:22,24,24 176:2 227:13 233:5 265:23 38:19,22 39:7,9 40:13 41:1 278:13,14 visit 268:23 275:19 41:2 46:1,16 wonder 88:13,17 89:1,2 123:4 wants we've 175:10 visited 268:14 77:14,15 123:5 142:24 wondering 88:20 89:8,10,11 90:20,23 warehouse 251:21 262:3 27:4 42:5 84:4 265:13 91:5,7 92:23 93:18,23 94:4 50:13,17 whatsoever word 94:15,18,21,22,25 95:10 warf 63:20 174:7 275:5 61:24 118:8,13 180:17,18 vitae 94:24 wheel words 3:12 264:25 265:2 warning 36:4 103:11 118:6 146:18 151:7 vital 255:9 wheeler 157:1 160:3 168:20 174:4 115:23 warren 119:5 198:15214:8 219:9 253:4 volatile 30:15,17 wheeler's 256:18 266:22 160:1 206:22 wash 119:15 work volatized 194:14 wherewithal 36:25 37:2 43:11,11 46:24 160:20 water 77:25 84:15 142:1 51:5 53:3 58:9,11,13,14,22 volume 3:13 39:24 81:18 84:25,25 whichever 73:11 80:16,24 86:17 94:7 1:1 3:1,6 153:17,20 158:16 85:4,4,10,14,16,17,19,20 225:4 94:8 95:12 96:14 105:10 282:4 85:22 86:6,9,9 87:12,19 white 118:19 120:6 124:4 133:18 volunteer 113:5,21 131:13,15 132:8 140:25 134:1 137:12 139:6,9,10 265:16 151:5,5,8,13 177:20 178:17 wic 140:10 145:21 154:1 155:1 vs 180:2,12 182:9 194:14 237:8 187:3,5 189:19 228:19,23 9:20 201:16 229:24 236:3 238:2 widgets 262:13 263:5 273:3,8 274:7 w wait 125:20 190:11 waiting 268:5 ways 36:25 37:2,2 72:4 149:24 157:16 179:8,9 widmark 221:4 78:5 89:12 90:11,21 120:9 wear 128:21 142:17 199:23 wild Wednesday 114:19 115:17 worked 29:7 35:13 36:2 37:13 41:6 43:7 46:20 76:4 84:13 128:15 137:3,17 140:15 146:19,22 149:11,12 170:16 185:16217:3 68:3 71:15 149:10 281:25 wall 50:23,23 walls week 108:17 225:12 weekly 86:8,13 102:22 103:13,24 104:10 waiter weeks 1:1 4:7 want 5:16 65:17,20 66:2,7,11 69:7 70:14,16 83:16,18,23 8:1,17,20 16:25 18:3,4 22:1 84:10 27:1228:1 31:14 34:16,19 weigh 34:20 61:13 62:25 64:13 86:2 71:18,20 75:6,13 80:18,18 83:5 99:11 133:10 142:25 weighing 85:18 147:21 148:3 149:16 151:8 weight 153:20 155:21 178:3,5 185:22,24 204:11 225:5 86:3 went 227:6 228:17 242:4 246:21 249:17,20,25 250:14 251:15,15 255:9 256:24 25:23 32:1 36:15 41:19 44:5,15 47:4 64:19 77:24 89:11 90:24,24 92:7,17 259:6 261:8 270:14,15 271:12 273:2 277:16,17,18 93:5 94:13 95:7 97:16 102:4 104:7 120:9 135:21 278:22 279:4,17,18 280:2 280:17 wanted 147:17 149:4 169:22 180:20 188:8,11,11,12,13 188:14,17,20 200:12 34:22 44:25 45:14 88:7 216:22,22,23 224:12,15,21 wildlife 114:4 willing 202:8 244:6 272:25 275:19 279:10,15 wind 255:12 wins 276:17 wire 169:15,18,22,22 Wisconsin 94:24 wish 27:5 211:10 witness 3:2 4:255:1 7:3 15:8,11,14 24:2 39:17 99:8 107:23 145:20 168:10,13 175:17 178:10 184:23,25 185:12 186:4,9 203:3,5 209:25 235:5,20 239:13 242:2,6,9 242:15 250:1,4,8,13,20 254:23 255:3,4,15 258:3,6 258:9 259:15 260:9 261:20 220:22 224:20 225:6 267:12 workers 117:7 118:7,10,10 122:8 136:6,8 197:15 working 29:2 47:3,5 49:12 79:12 81:1,5,14 82:17 87:24 96:3 99:20 103:18 116:17 135:17 173:12 174:18 189:21 193:5 222:16 works 78:24,25 87:2 158:11 168:3 world 97:24 141:15 142:20 156:22 165:18 171:10 174:8 182:20 209:7 worldwide 103:7 177:7 worry 86:7 168:2 worth 250:15 280:5 wright 2:3 3:4 4:18,18 5:2,20,25 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055568 [wright - zero] wright (cont.) yeah (cont.) 6:1,10,15,22 7:25 8:6,7,14 153:10 171:25 173:23 8:17 9:1,2 10:10,17,22,24 176:20 177:19 178:3,7 10:25 21:21,23 23:17 24:1 187:15210:23 211:12 24:6,7 37:21,24 38:5 39:20 213:20 220:10 221:17 85:16 88:5,9,12 95:15,25 227:14,23 228:11 237:19 143:2,5,8,15 144:5,10,14 239:16 241:5,25 246:17 145:2,10,14 146:2,4,7 248:8 252:6 254:16 255:1 168:12 177:19,23 178:3,7 257:10 258:12,20 259:16 178:12 184:14,17,21 185:1 260:19 261:2 262:24 266:5 186:11 190:4 202:20 203:6 266:22 268:16,23 271:13 205:9 225:21 229:22 230:1 year 230:4 235:6,7 239:4,8,11 30:4 32:12 93:9,11,12 239:16,17 240:13,17 185:17 262:21 241:25 242:4 243:8 248:7 years 248:13,21,24 249:8,19,22 11:8 16:18,20,21 17:8 18:9 249:25 250:3,6,11,14,21 20:17 22:3 23:14,21 35:16 251:18,21,25 252:3,7 253:7 94:4 98:25 108:7 109:22 253:10,17,25 254:5,14,18 112:4,9 218:11 220:2 238:7 254:22 255:2,6 256:11,16 260:6 256:23 257:2,8,11,17,22 yep 258:5,7,12,20 259:1,6,18 171:16 259:21,23 260:11,19 261:6 yesterday 261:11,17,25 262:5,8,14,15 9:8,19 10:21 25:10 26:20 263:21,22 266:5,12,25 26:20 28:9 258:18 263:6 267:4,8,14,21 268:2,18,21 young 268:25 269:5,14 270:11,17 72:18 270:20 271:16 272:9,14,16 272:22 273:14,18,21 274:20 275:22 276:1 278:24 279:17 280:10,19 zero 44:21 280:25 281:20 write 108:15 writing 54:21 185:23 writings 261:19 written 20:12 90:7 101:8 236:2,6 267:25 wrong 52:3 102:21 229:22 wrote 121:8,12 148:14 264:22 265:7,10,11 wrr 119:1___________________ y yeah 8:4 17:14 21:4 30:10 37:5 41:23 42:5 47:17 51:21 62:10 66:5 68:12 80:15 84:8 89:11 109:16 111:3 115:3 121:13 123:25 125:17 143:2 147:22 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in OWENS (2) WATER PCB-SD0000055569