Document yjNronBvDDQgGxZbkqJvJ8nD

nxuiju J..i.wti IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA NEVADA POWER COMPANY, ) Plaintiff, ) -VS- ) MONSANTO COMPANY, GENERAL ) ELECTRIC CORPORATION, et al., ) Defendants. ) # CV-89-555-LDG (LRL) INDEX WITNESS: GEORGE ROUSH,, JR. Direct Examination by Mr. Bradley EXHIBITS <_J Roush Deposition Exhibit Number 1 Roush Deposition. Exhibit Number 2 Deposition Exhibit Number 979. . Deposition Exhibit Number 1251 . Deposition Exhibit Number 1421 . Deposition Exhibit Number 367. . Deposition Exhibit Number 350. . Deposition Exhibit Number 424. . Deposition Exhibit Number 1154 . . Deposition Exhibit Number 1425 &428 Deposition Exhibit Number 517, 422 & 709 Deposition Exhibit Number 359 & 340. . . Page : 20 22 71 103 106 107 108 110 Hi 112 113 . 114 - 2- CONCANNON & JAEGER ,J ri l__I ui'ic*u xCjI\ niUDU r xx IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT. FOR THE DISTRICT OF -NEVADA NEVADA POWER COMPANY, Plaintiff, -vs- MONSANTO COMPANY, GENERAL ELECTRIC CORPORATION, et al., Defendants. ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) # CV-89-555-LDG (LRL) DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OF WITNESS, to be used in an action pending in the District Court of the United States, for the District of Nevada, wherein NEVADA POWER COMPANY is Plaintiff, and MONSANTO COMPANY, et al. are Defendants, pursuant to Notice, under the provisions of Rule 26 of the Rules of Civil Procedure, taken on March 17, 1993, at the law offices of Messrs. Husch & Eppenberger, 100 North Broadway, St. Louis, Missouri, before John T. Concannon, a Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri. APPEARANCES The Plaintiff was represented by Mr. Ralph A. Bradley, of the law firm of Bradley & Merrell, c/o Jones, Jones, Close & Brown, 300 South Fourth Street, Ste. 700, Las Vegas, Nevada, 89101. The Defendant, Monsanto Company, was represented by Mr. Bruce A. Featherstone, of the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis, 1999 Broadway, Ste. 4000, Denver Colorado, 80202. The Defendant, Westinghouse Corporation, was represented by Ms. Laurie Basch, of the law firm of Weil, Gotshal & Manges, 767 Fifth Avenue, New York,: New York, , 10153. CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 1 GEORGE ROUSH/ JR./ 2 of lawful age, being first duly sworn to tell the truth, 3 the whole truth/ and nothing but the truth/ deposes and 4 says on behalf of the Plaintiff, as follows: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 QUESTIONS BY MR. BRADLEY: 7 o. Dr. Roush, my name the Ralph Bradley, and you 8 and X were introduced to one another just a few moments 9 ago. Is that true? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. I represent Nevada Power Company in this 12 lawsuit that they have brought against Monsanto/ 13 Westinghouse and General Electric? you understand that, 14 don't you? 13 A. Yes. 16 0* Are you here, today, represented by an 17 attorney? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. If, during the course of the deposition, I ask 20 a question that's not clear, will you tell me? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And if you give an answer to a question, I'm 23 going to assume that you understood the question. Fair 24 enough? 25 A. Yes. -4CONCANNON & JAEGER * I. 1 Q* All right* And if, at any time during this 2 afternoon, you want to take a break, you just let us know 3 and w e fll accomodate you, all right? 4 A. Yes* 5 Q. What is your residential address? 6 A. 10 Babler Lane, B-a-b-l-e-r, St. Louis, 63124. 7 o. Are you presently employed? 8 A* Retired* 9 Q. When did you retire? 10 A. 198811 Q* Let's start this deposition by having you 12 describe your educational background, beginning with 13 college* Where did you attend college? 14 A. University of Wisconsin. 15 0. Did you receive a Bachelor's Degree from the 16 University of Wisconsin? 17 A. My education was interrupted by the war. 18 Q. All right- So you began college at the 19 University of Wisconsin and then went into the military? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What branch of the military? 22 A. Signal Corp. 23 G. And what was your rank when you got out of the 24 military? 25 A. First Lieutenant. -5CONCAWNON & JAEGER --i i Q. Did you return to college when you got out of 2 the military? 3 A* Yes. 1946. 4 Q. Where did you go to college in 1946? 5 A. Wisconsin. 6 Q. Did you receive a degree from the University 7 of Wisconsin? 8 A* I didn't take the degreeright away. 9 Q. Okay. Did you ultimately get a degree? 10 A. Yes* 11 Q. What degree did you get? 12 A. Washington University Medical School. 13 Q. And you got that degree when? 14 A. 1951. 15 Q. And I take it, your degree was as a medical 16 doctor? 17 A. Yes. In that interim, I weni; back and got my 18 degree from Wisconsin. Just had to write and get it. 19 Q. All right* So you received a Bachelors Degree 20 from Wisconsin? 21 A Yes 22 Q. Did you intern? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Where did you intern? 25 A. In Milwaukee. Milwaukee Cou nty Hospital. -G-CONCAHNON & JAEGER I 1 That's a teaching hospital of Marquette. 2 Q* Did you obtain a specialty when you went 3 through your medical training? 4 THE WITNESS: Will you ask the question again? 5 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Yes. Do you have a 6 specialty in any area of medicine? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What is your specialty? 9 A Occupational Medicine* 10 Q. Describe for me the training you have had in 11 occupational medicine? 12 A, In 1951, went to the Dniversity of Pittsburgh 13 and have a degree from the School of Public Health* It's 14 called a Masters in Public Health in Occupational Medicine. 15 Q* Was the Masters throughany medicalschool? 16 A. It wasat theUniversityof Pittsburgh School 17 of Public Health. 18 Q. Allright* But theSchool of PublicHealth 19 wasn't part of the School of Medicine? 20 A No, It's -- They're both part of the 21 University of Pittsburgh. 22 Q. All right. And do you have any other degrees 23 from any other institutions? 24 A. NO. 25 Q. I take it, you became licensed as a medical -7- CONCANNON & JAEGER I 1 doctor at some point? 2 A. In 1957. 3 Q. How long did you attend the University of 4 Pittsburgh in their School of Public Health? 5 A. Two years. 6 Q. You graduated in 1953 from the University of 7 Pittsburgh? 8 A. in 1952. 9 0. All right. 10 A. That was a post-graduate fellowship I had. 11 Q. Upon graduation from the University of 12 Pittsburgh, did you obtain employment? 13 A. I went to the National Cancer Institute at 14 Bethesda. 15 Q. And that was in 1952? 16 A. Yes. 17 o. What did you do at the National Cancer 18 Institute in 1952? 19 A. I had a clinical fellowship in cancer therapy. 20 Q. Did the fellowship relate to your Masters 21 Degree in Public Health and Occupational Medicine? 22 A. Not directly, but it was my purpose. 23 Q. All right. 24 A. It was understanding chemotherapy. 25 0. How long was the fellowship at the National -8CONCANNON & JAEGER i W M \ V W^ 4 -fc 44 1 4 44 4 4 ^l4 krVWVf\ 4 4 *AW41 1 1 Cancer Institute? 2 A* One year. 3 Q. What did you do when the fellowship ended? 4 A. Went to the Stanton Island Marine Hospital, 5 residency in medicine* 6 Q. How long were you at Stanton Island Marine 7 Hospital? 6 A* One year. 9 Q. What kind of medicine did you practice in your 10 residency? 11 A. Internal medicine. 12 Q. What did you do at the.end of your residency? 13 A. I'm not finished yet* 14 Q. All right. Go ahead. 15 A. I went back to the University of Pittsburgh. 16 Q. And why did you do that? 17 A. I finished my residency in internal medicine. 18 Q. When did you finish your residency in internal 19 medicine? 20 A. That year. One year. 21 Q. In -- 22 A. '57. 23 Q. Help me f o r a moment. 'I have you at the 24 national Cancer institute for one year beginning in 1952; 25 is that correct? -9 CONCANHON & JAEGER  A. Yes, sir. 2 Q* In 1953, you went to Stanton Island Marine 2 Hospital for one year? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. So that's 1954. 1954, went back to. the 6 University of Pittsburgh to finish your residency? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And you finished that in 1957? 9 A. Yes* 10 Q. When youobtained yourresidency, was it 11 common to have a four year residency? 12 A* NO. 13 Q. Why did you have a four year residency? 14 A* Because mine was mixed up by spending the time 15 at NIH. 16 Q. What did you dowhen you finished your 17 residency in 1957? 18 A. Became part of the faculty at the School of 19 Public Health, University of Pittsburgh. 20 Q* What is the.field of public health? 21 A. . Mine was not in public health, my was 22 occupational medicine. 23 Q. What did you teach, then, as part of the 24 faculty of the School of Public Health at the University of 25 Pittsburgh in 1957? - 10 CONCANWOM JAEGER i A. I taught students coming there for a degree in 2 occupational medicine 3 0. What did you teach? 4 A* Occupational medicine. 5 Q. V7hat is occupational medicine? 6 A. Understanding of the needs of industry in 7 occupational medicine. That included understanding of a 8 man's ability to work, the hazards associated with work, 9 responsibilities of occupational medicine to the company 10 with whom we are working. 11 Q. What responsibilities are there of someone 12 practicing occupational medicine to the company with whom 13 they are working? 14 A. Helping them to understand what the workers in 15 that plant have in the way of problems associated with 16 their work. If the man has any injury or disability 17 associated with his work, that has to be communicated to 18 the management of the company. 19 Q. How long were you at the faculty of the School 20 of Public Health at the University of Pittsburgh? 21 A. During that time I was there, I was Assistant 22 Professor of Occupational Medicine. 23 Q. How long were you there? 24 A. Two years. 25 Q. And during the two-year time, wa3 the subject - 11 CONCANNON & JAEGER i that you taught only occupational medicine? 2 A, No. 3 Q. What else did you teach? 4 A. I also taught Internal medicine* I was 5 Instructor of Medicine* 6 Q. And then in 1957, you obtained a license to be 7 a medical doctor? 8 A, No 9 Q. No. When were you licensed as a medical 10 doctor? 11 A. I'm not there yet. 12 Q* All right. 13 MR. FEATHERSTONE: You mean in terms of your 14 history? is that what you're saying? 15 A* Yes. I'm not there yet* 16 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Okay. What did you do 17 following 13 A. I was still essentially in training. 19 Q- All right. 20 A. I went to University of Louisville* 21 Q. Was this in 1959? 22 A. '57/58. I may be off a year. I can't tell. 23 Q- And what did you do at the University of 24 Louisville? 25 A. Had a fellowship in cardiology, one year. - 12 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q- What did you do in your fellowship in 2 cardiology at the University of Louisville? 3 A. Became a cardiac consultant. 4 Q. How did you become a cardiac -- 5 Q. I became a cardiac consultant. I did cardiac 6 catheterizations. 7 Q. You received training to do that? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q* While at the University of Louisville? 10 A. Yes. That's what X did. I did cardiac 11 catheterization. 12 0, what is a cardiac catheterization? 13 A. Got a heart, and the question whether there is 14 something wrong with one of the valves. Whether the heart, 15 the two sides of the heart are functioning; and you put a 16 catheter in one of the major veins in the forearm and go up 17 and you put it into the heart and then you measure the 18 pressure inside the - outside the heart between the valves; 19 put another catheter in the major artery in the leg that 20 goes up on the other side of the heart and you study those 21 two parts of the heart's function. 22 Q. what did you do when you left the University 23 of Louisville? 24 A. Went to University of Cincinnati. 25 Q. What did you do at the University of - 13 COilCAN NOW & JAEGER 1 Cincinnati? 2 A. I was Associate Professor of Occupational 3 Medicine. 4 Q. How long were you at the University of 5 Cincinnati? 6 A. Until *72. 7 Q. What did you do as Associate Professor of 8 Occupational Medicine? 9 A. Taught occupational medicine to physicians. 10 Q. Did you teach any courses/ other than 11 occupational medicine while at the University of 12 Cincinnati? 13 A. No. 14 ,Q. When did you become licensed as a medical 15 doctor? IS A. Didn*t get licensed yet. 17 Q. All right. What did you do in 19 - following 18 -- What did you do after the University of Cincinnati? 19 A. Went to Tulane Medical school in New Orleans. 20 Q. Why did you go the Tulane Medical School? 21 A. They built me a toxicology laboratory. 22 Q. What was your job title when you went to 23 Tuland Medical School? 24 A. Professor of Medicine. 25 Q. What did you do while you were at Tulane - 14 CONCANNON 4 JAEGER ta I Medical School? 2 A* Ran that toxicology laboratory. 3 Q. How long did you run the toxicology lab? 4 A. T 've forgotten where I am in years 5 MR. FEATHERSTOHE1 1972. 6 MR. BRADLEY: I have that you went to Tulane 7 Medical School in 1972 3 A. t was there for two years. 9 Q. (By Mr Bradley) All right. What did you do 10 when you left Tulane Medical School? 11 A. I went to Monsanto Company. 12 0. What -- 13 A. And got my license in medicine here. 14 Q. Does your license entitle you to practice in a 15 specialty? 16 A. Just medicine* 17 Q. What work were you doing at the toxicology lab 18 at Tulane Medical School? 19 A. We did toxicology. 20 Q- Well# on what kind of chemicals or products? 21 A. Whatever would be coming to us. 22 Q. All right. While at Tulane Medical Schoolf 23 did you do toxicology on products manufactured by Monsanto? 24 A. No. That was before X knew Monsanto 25 Q. During the two years you were at Tulane - 15 CONCANNCN S. JAEGER I 1 Medical School, did you do toxicology workups on any 2 products containing PCBs? 3 A. NO. 4 Q. While at the Tulane Medical School, did you do 5 any toxicological workups on chemicals? 6 A. Yes. 7 0* Which chemicals, do you recall? 8 A. On a number of chemicals. 9 Q. Any of the chlorinated aromatic hydrocarbons? 10 A. I don't think so. We did a number of them. 11 The toxicologists did this short-term. Do it in a couple 12 of days so you could turn them over. We did no chronic 13 studies but we would have if I had stayed there. 14 Q* Doing all acute studies? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q* Were you working with animals? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Rats? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Mice? 21 A. Yes. 22 G. Any other animals? 23 A. Not on any continuing basis. 24 Q. Why was it that you left the lab to go to work 25 for Monsanto? - 16 CONCANHON & JA2GER J 1 A They were going to built me a toxicology 2 laboratory that .would be more to my needs than the one I 3 had at Tulane* 4 0 Who at Monsanto, indicated to you that they 5 would build you a toxicology lab more suited to your needs? 6 A. Man who became my boss. 7 Q. Dr, Kelly? 8 A. No, 9 0. Who? 10 A. Mr. Throtall, vice-president* 11 Q * When you -- You went to Monsanto, then , in 12 19747 13 A 1973, 14 Q. *3. When you went to Monsanto in 1973, had 15 Monsanto, in fact, built a toxicology lab? 16 A* NO. 17 Q. For your use? 18 A. No, they had not* 19 Q. Did you say "No* They have now?" 20 A. They had not* 21 Q. All right. Did they eventually build a 22 toxicology lab for you? 23 A. Yes, 24 Q. When was that built? 25 A. I can't be sure. 1975 about. - 17 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q. What was your job title when you began work at 2 Monsanto? 3 A. Associate Medical Director. 4 Q. V7ho was the medical director when you began 5 your work at Monsanto? 6 A. Dr. Kelly. 7 Q. Was Dr. Kelly yourboss when you began your 8 work at Monsanto? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you havean office in the medicalarea of 11 Monsanto? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q, Describe for me the physical layout of the 14 medical department at Monsanto when you went to work there 15 in 1973. 16 A. We had a clinical sectionr and we had one 17 physician, one physician working in that clinical section 13 and Dr, Kelly and I substituted and supplemented in the 19 clinical practice at Monsanto. That's one section. 20 Q. What other sections were there? 21 A. We had an industrial hygiene section, headed 22 by Mr. Wheeler, and he had one or two industrial hygienists 23 working with him. I can't tell you when they came. 24 Q, What other sections were there? 25 A. Then there was a section on toxicology, - 18 COCANNOH u JAEGER 1 A. Who ran that? 2 A. George tevinskas* 3 Q. What other sections were there? 4 A. That*s it. We had -- What I was thinking 5 about is, we had a library and I*m not sure where that fit 6 into this. 7 Q. Were all of the sections housed in the same 3 building? 9 A. Yes 10 Q. Were there other departments than the medical II department in this one, in this building? 12 A. Yes, 13 Q What other departments were in the building 14 that housed the medical department when you began work 15 there in *73? 16 A. An overseas operation. 17 Q. Did the medical department have one floor of a 18 building? 19 A. It had half of that first floor. 20 Q. I `m going to hand you a piece of paper and ask 21 you, if you would, to diagram for me the first floor of the 22 building that the medical department was in in 1973 and 23 indicate which part of the first floor was the medical 24 department. 25 A. I 'm not sure how accurate. It was a long time - 19 CON CAN NOW r JAEGBR 1 ago and it was changed many times subsequent to this. 2 MR. BRADLEY: Let's have this marked as, I 3 guess, Roush Deposition Exhibit One, 4 (Whereupon, the reporter marked Roush Deposition Exhibit 5 Plumber One, for identification.) 6 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) All right. 'You've drawn 7 here your best estimate of the physical layout of the 8 medical department when you began work with Monsanto in 9 1973. 10 A. When I started. 11 Q. And you've made some drawings that appear.to 12 be rooms and you have seme names, or other identifying,-' 13 A. Yes. 14 0. Explain to me, then, what you've done with 15 Exhibit One? 16 A. The entry hall into the building. 17 Q What building is this? 18 A. A building. t 19 Q. A building. All right. It's on what's called 20 th& Monsanto Campus? 21 A. Yes. i 22 Q* Go ahead. 23 A. And so as you come in, there's a receptionist 24 there. 25 Q. All right. And you've written "receptionist?'' - 20 - COPICANNON S, JAEGER 1 A. Yes. And next to her was a secretary. 2 0. All right. Secretary had his or her own room? 3 A. No. it was open. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And next to her was Dr* Kelly. Q. All right. Dr. Kelly was where? Would you 7 point? 8 A. Right here. 9 Q. All right. And you wrote *Dr. Kelly" there? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. All right. 12 A. Then I was next tohim, 13 Q. All right. 14 A. And we had anopening for another doctor that 15 was not thare. 16 Q. All right. 17 A. And on the other side, we had examination 18 rooms and we had a section on toxicology and there were 19 three people. I'm not sure how they were situated. 20 Q. All right, 21 A. Then we had the industrial hygiene section. 22 Q. All right. And when you went to work for 23 Monsanto in 1973, was there a medical department library? 24 A. I'm not sure how formal it was. 25 Q. Was there an area that was referred to as the - 21 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 library? 2 A, Yes.. 3 Q, Would you draw that? 4 A* I can't tell you where it is, 5 Q. Why is it that you can't tell me where it is? 6 A. Because we left there quite soon and went to 7 another building. 8 Q. I see. All right. And you don't recall where 9 the library was when you began your work there? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. All right. Would you draw for me now the 12 physical layout of the medical department when you moved 13 from what's referenced by Exhibit One? 14 (Whereupon/ the reporter marked Plaintiff's Roush 15 Deposition Exhibit Number Two, for identification.) 16 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) We've now marked your 17 diagram that you have just prepared as Plaintiff's Roush 18 Deposition Exhibit Two. Can you tell me what that is? 19 A. We moved to another building. This is moving 20 over to G Building. 21 Q. All right. 22 A. And we were down in the basementarea there. 23 We had windows around the side but we were below ground. 24 Q. And what year did you move to G Building? 25 A. '70. - 22 - CONCANNON & JAEGER I 1 Q. And you have some markings on this Exhibit, as 2 well. Would you explain those to me? 3 A. This is the entry. 4 Q. All right * 5 A. Because we were a basement# we came directly# 6 right into my door# and my office was right adjacent to 7 there. So I was one of the few people who had windows on 8 both sides. My secretary was there. 9 Q. Uh-huh. 10 A. And we had the toxicology group right next to 11 that# and we had industrial hygiene next# with Jack Garrett 12 as the head of it. 13 Q. All right. 14 A. And we had a library# and l*m not sure just 15 how it was located with respect to this# and Dr. Degarmo, 16 O-e-g-a-r-ra-o, was our administrator. And on our other 17 side we had the physicians and industrial hygiene. 18 Q. Did you have any examining rooms? 19 A. Ho. The examining rooms were still back in A 20 Building and we had to hire an extra physician to take the 21 place of what we had been doing. 22 Q. So when you moved to G Building from A 23 Building in *78# the medical department still maintained 24 examining rooms in A Building? 25 A. Yes. The clinical facility remained there. - 23 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q What were your job responsibilities as 2 Associate Medical Director in 1973? 3 A. To do the clinical examinations that this, the 4 full-time man was unable to do, 5 0. Did you have other job responsibilities as 6 Associate Medical Director in '73? 7 A* Yes, 8 Q. What else? 9 A. Visited plants to understandwhat kind of 10 operations, what they were doing, 11 Q. What other job responsibilities, if any? 12 THE WITNESS: Besides that? 13 MR. BRADLEYi Yes. I want you to tell me ail 14 your job responsibilities in *73. 15 THE WITNESS: This was before, while -- 16 MR. BRADLEY: This is when you first began 17 working there in 1973. IS A* As I said, we had visited plants and worked 19 with the toxicologists, talked about their organisation, 20 how they functioned and their responsibilities. 21 0. (By Mr. Bradley) All right. And when you 22 began work in 1973, who were the toxicologists with 23 Monsanto? 24 A. George Levinskas was in charge. 25 Q. Was the toxicology section under your - 24 CONCANITON & JAEGER I 1 authority as Associate Medical Director? 2 A. It was under Levinskas1 3 Q* Who did Levinskas report to? 4 A* He reported to Kelly* 5 Q. As the Associate Director or Associate 6 Medical Director, was your primary responsibility working 7 with the clinical section? 8 A* They were both major functions* 9 Q. All right* What kind of work did you do with 10 the toxicologists in 1973? 11 A* Participated with them with the definition of 12 what studies needed to be done and understand and interpret 13 the findings of their studies that were completed* 14 Q* When you began work in 1973, did Monsanto have 15 its own toxicology lab? 16 A. Mo* 17 Q* And when did it have a toxicology lab? Is 18 that the lab you indicated earlier was built for you around 19 1975? 20 A. 21 Q. 22 you? Yes, In 1973, did Dr. Levinskas report at all to 23 A. It wasmore functional than administratively 24 so. 25 Q. What do you mean bythat? - 25 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 A. Well, if he had a question about what he 2 should do next or whether we should do something, he came 3 to me directly. He didn't have to go through anyone else. 4 0* Would he -- Do you know whether he would 5 normally go to you with questions about toxicology as 6 opposed to going to Dr. Kelly? 7 A. Ho. Levinskas is a nationally recognized 8 toxicologist, and so what he did toxicologicaliy was his 9 determination, but we would discuss what he was going to 10 do. 11 Q. Was there a point in time when your title 12 changed at Monsanto? 13 A. The day Dr. Kelly retired. 14 G. When was that? 15 A. December of '74. 16 Q And you then became Director of the Medical 17 Department at Monsanto? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q * When you became Medical Department Director 20 was Dr. Levinskas still in charge of the toxicology 21 section? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. As Director of the Medical Department, did Dr. 24 Levinskas report to you? 25 A, Yes. - 26 - CONCANHON & JAEGER J 1 MR, FEATHERSTONEt Would you read that 2 question back, please? 3 (Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous question.) 4 G. {By Hr. Bradley) Who did you report to as 5 Medical Department Director in 1974? 6 A. I reported to Hr. Bible for a very short 7 period of time. 8 Q, What was his job title when you reported to 9 him? 10 A. He was vice-president, and some administrative 11 title. 12 Q. After you no longer reported to Dr, Bible, who 13 did you report to? 14 A. Mr. Throtall. 15 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Is it Dr. Bible? 16 A. NO. 17 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) And when you -- Do you 18 the date that you began reporting to Mr. Throtall? 19 A. No, sir. No, sir * 20 Q. Do you -- 21 A. But it was very short. 22 0. Do you recall his job title when you began 23 reporting to him? 24 A. He was Vice-President in Charge of Research. 25 Q. Was Mr, Throtall involved at all in the - 27 - COMCANNON & JAEGER I 1 decisions to undertake various toxicological studies 2 regarding Monsanto products? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Those decisions, while you were medical 5 department director, were made by the head of the 6 toxicology department with your consultation? 7 A. Yes. And possibly informing Throtall. Not 8 participating but more informing. 9 Q. Have you had your deposition taken before? 10 A* Yes. 11 Q. How many times have you had your deposition 12 taken? 13 A. Ten to twenty. 14 0- During the times you had yourdeposition taken 15 on previous occasions, did you give information regarding 16 polychlorinated biphenyls? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Out of the ten to twenty times you had your 19 deposition taken, what's your estimate of how many times 20 you addressed the topic of polychlorinated biphenyls? 21 A. Five. 22 Q. Tell me what youremember about those five 23 depositions. When did they occur, who was there? 24 A. I can't, 25 Q,, Can you tell me the lasttime you had your - 28 CONCASNON & JAEGER --r 1 deposition taken where the subject matter was, at least in 2 part, polychlorinated biphenyls? 3 Q. I don't know the name of it. This one was in 4 Houston. 5 Q. Do you recall roughly the year that you had 6 your deposition taken? 7 A. Five years ago. 3 Q Do you know what the reason was why you had 9 your deposition taken in that case? 10 A . There was concern for contamination. 11 Q. Of 12 A. By Monsanto. Three or four different 13 companies were involved. 14 Q. And the contamination was of PCBs? 15 A. All chemicals. 16 Q. All right. Including PCBs? 17 A. I can't answer that. 18 Q. Well, at least PCBs came up as a subject 19 matter in your deposition? 20 A. I can't even answer that. 21 Q. Do you maintain copies of the transcripts of 22 any depositions where you've given testimony? 23 A. No. 24 0. Do you know if those are kept anywhere? 25 A. No. - 29 CONCAHNON & JAEGEP i Q. Did you review any of your deposition 2 testimony prior to appearing here, today? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you recall which attorney represented.-- * 5 Were you represented by an attorney when ypu 'had your 1 6 deposition taken in Houston? 7 A* I'm sure I was, but I shouldn't be that sure. 8 I think I was. 9 'Q. Do you remember the names of any of the 10 attorneys? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you remember the names of the Plaintiffs? 13 A* No. 14 Q. Do you remember the names of the other.three 15 or four different companies? 16 A. No. 17 Q. And other than the deposition in Houston, do 18 you recall anything at all about the other roughly four 19 times you gave depositions covering the topic of PCBs? 20 .A. There was a deposition out in San Francisco. 21 Q. Is that in the early 19803? 22 A. Late '80s, I would think. 23 Q. Was that in a case called One Market Place? 24 A. Yes. ! 25 Q. Do you recall whether yourdeposition was - 30 - CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 transcribed, the one that you gave in the One Market Place 2 case? 3 A. Ho, I don't know. 4 Q. Do you recall whether you read the words - the 5 questions you were asked during that deposition and answers 6 that you gave? 7 A. I usually corrected all of those. 8 Q. All right. Did you correct the deposition * 9 that you gave in Houston, as well? You reviewed it and 10 made whatever corrections you needed? 11 A. I'm sure I did* 12 Q. All right. Do yourecall the subjectmatter 13 of the testimony of your deposition in the OneMarket Place 14 case? 15 MR. FEATHERSTONE* Well, Mr. Bradley, I think 16 that's the case that's governed by the confidentiality 17 order that I referenced several weeks ago in another 18 deposition. So you can answer that question generally* 19 A* That's about all T know, my participation. 20 They would say, "You're going to give a deposition," and 21 that's all the direction 1 would be given* 22 Q. (By Mr* Bradley) All right. Do you recall, 23 though, giving testimony about PCBs? 24 THE WITNESS: where? 25 MR. BRADLEY: In San Francisco. - 31 CONCANNON & JAEGER a 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) Do you recall any other 3 occasions where you gave depositions regarding PCBs? 4 A. No, X do not. 5 Q. Okay. What materials, if any, did you review 6 to prepare for today's deposition? 7 THE WITNESS: What? 8 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) What materials, if any,, did 9 you review to prepare for today's deposition? 10 A. PCBs. 11 Q. What materials did you review? Did you review 12 letters, studies? 13 A. No. X have a toxicology book at home. 14 Q. Did you review the toxicology book to prepare 15 for today's deposition? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What's the name of the toxicology book? IB A. It's called pattey, P-a-t-t-e-y. 19 Q. Pattey? 20 A. P-a-t-t-e-y, Pattey. 21 Q. Is Pattey the author of it? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What's the title of the volume? 24 A, Toxicology. It's a standard reference book. 25 Q. What else did you review in preparation for - 32 CONCANNON & JAEGER X todays deposition? 2 A. Nothing particularly 3 Q. Well, did you review any of the documents that 4 you generated while you were medical director at Monsanto? 5 A. We talked about the subject yesterday with 6 counsel. 7 0. X don't want to know what you talked about but 8 I'm interested, though, in knowing what documents you 9 reviewed, 10 A, I can't recall them. X can't do that because 11 we just took things out. 12 Q. you don't remember anything at all, whether 13 they were studies or *14 A* Well, we talked about the IBT study. 15 Q. Did you review some documents relating to the 16 IBT studies? 17 A. No. Well, there was some correspondence. 18 Q. All right* Other than the correspondence 19 regarding IBT, what do you recall about the documents that 20 you reviewed? 21 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Dr. Roush, just so you 22 know, Mr. Bradley already told you he doesn't want to know 23 what you talked about with counsel but you can, if you 24 recall it, identify for him the documents you were shown 25 yesterday for this deposition. - 33 CONCANNON & JAEGER i A 1 can't recall them* 2 Q. (By. Mr. Bradley) Do you recall whether you 3 reviewed any studios? 4 A* The IBT studywas the one that -- 5 Q. All right, 6 A. - that reallyis the crux. 7 G. All right. 8 MR. FEATHERSTGNE: When you get to an 9 appropriate point# Mr* Bradley# I need to find out about 10 Mr. McRicholas. 11 MR, BRADLEY: This is an appropriate point. 12 (Whereupon# a fifteen minute recess was taken.) 13 Q, (By Mr. Bradley) Dr. Roush# 1 assume that 14 you've heard the terra polychlorinated biphenyls? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Also known as RGBs? 17 A. Yes. 18 C. Also known ac chlorinated biphenyls? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Also known as chlorinated diphenyls? 21 A. Yes. Mot the same 22 Q. Chlorinated biphenyls aro not the same as 23 chlorinated diphenyls? 24 A. Yes# they are. 25 0 , What's not the same? - 3*\- \ \ $CORCANROR A\ JAEGER X A* What you had said, X thought there was a 2 difference in that last one. you say it again. 3 Q. Are PCBs also known as chlorinated diphenyls? 4 A. Yes. 5 0 - And are FCBs also known as chlorinated 6 biphenyls? 7 A. Ves 8 Q* Are chlorinated biphenyls and chlorinated 9 diphenyls the same? 10 A. yes. 1 1 Q. When did you first hear the term FCBs? 12 A. When X came to Monsanto, 13 Q. Who# at Monsanto# first told you about PCBs? 14 A. First? 15 HR, BRADLEYs YOS. 16 A. I don't remember. 17 o. (By Mr. Bradley) All right. Did you have a IG discussion whan you first went to Monsanto regarding FCBs? 19 THE WITNESS3 will you say that again? 20 MR. BRADLEYs YQS. 21 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) When you first went to 22 Monsanto# did you meet with anyone to discuss 23 polychlorinated biphenyls? 24 A. Mo. 25 Q. Tell me# then# how it was that you came to - 35 COHCANNON & JAEGER 1 first hear about the term PCBs, in what context? 2 A* Mr.. Wheeler tool; me over to his office and 3 said, I want to tell you what I'm working on.* 4 Q. And what was he working on? 5 A. On PCBs. 6 0 What work was he doing on PCBs when you met 7 with him? S A. Environmental contamination 9 0 . What environmental contamination work was he 10 doing on PCBs? 1 1 A. It was related to the finding in Sweden, X 12 think it was, that PCBs were present in the environment. 13 Q. What specifically was Mr. wheeler doing 14 regarding environmental contamination of PCBs when you met 15 with him? 16 A. Keeping up-to-date to what contamination there 17 was, or whatever he found in the literature, but he was 18 keeping up-to-date. 19 Q. Did he tell you how he was keeping up-to-date? 20 A. Literature primarily but also from other 21 companies* 22 Q. Did he tell you what he was doing to keep 23 up-to-date in the literature? 24 A. Mo. 25 Q. Did he show you any library acquisitions that COHCAHMON tx JAEGER % 1 he had that addressed the topic of environmental 2 contamination by. PCBs? 3 A. No 4 Q* Did you discuss with him at all what he was 5 doing to keep up-to-date with the literature on PCBs? 6 A No 7 Q. Was there ever a point in time where you 8 discussed with Mr* Wheeler what he was doing, if anything, 9 to keep up-to-date on the literature in the field of PCBs? 10 THE WITNESSt Ask that again. 11 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Yes. Was there ever a time 12 that you spoke with Mr. Wheeler regarding what he was doing 13 to keep up-to-date on the subject of PCBs in the 14 literature? 15 A. To a degree# yes. 16 0 When did that occur? 17 A. I can*t answer that. 18 0 * what did he indicate to you he was doing to 19 keep up-to-date regarding PCBs in the literature? 20 A. I think you just asked that question. 21 Q. Well, and do you have any more information, 2 2 other than what you've given me? 23 A. No He had a file and he would take it out 24 and we would talk from his accumulated file. 25 G. When you met -- Was it Mr. Wheeler or Dr. - 37 CONCAHNOH S. JAEGER 1 Wheeler? 2 A. Hr.. Wheeler* 3 Q. What was his title when you first met with him 4 to discuss PCUs? 5 A* I don1t recall. 6 Q. Was he within the medical department? 7 A. ?es. 8 Q Was he within the toxicology section? 9 A. RO. 10 Q What section was ho in? 1 1 A. He was head of the industrial hygiene. 1 2 Q. Vou indicated that he had a file cabinet in 13 which he kept materials relating to PCBs? 14 A. Yes* 15 Q. And was that a two or four drawer file 16 cabinet? 17 A. I donft recall, 10 Q. Do you recall whether it was more than one 19 file cabinet? 20 A. About where X was when you asked me the other 2 1 time . 22 Q. So you don't know? 23 A. NO. 24 Q. All right. 25 A. He had taken that seriously. - 38 - CONCANMON h JAEGER 1 Q. Hell, what does that moan about the number of - 2 file cabinets that he had? 3 A. X can't answer That's unrelated 4 Q* All right. And over what period of time did 5 you have discussions with Mr. Wheeler regarding his work on 6 environmental contamination of PCBs? * 7 A, I can't answer that. \ i 8 Q. Do you recall whether your conversations with 9 him began in 19737 10 A. Tes. Mo, sir, 1 can't answer that. X think 1 1 so. 1 2 Q. All right. Do you know whether you stopped 13 having discussions with Mr. Wheeler about environmental 14 contamination of PCBs before you retired? 15 THE WITNESSi Before he retired? 16 KB. FEATBERSTONEt Before you retired* 17 A. He was retired long before me. 18 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) All right. When did he 19 retire? 20 A. *74 or *75. 2 1 Q. Did you have those discussions with him about 22 environmental contamination of PCBs up to the time he 23 retired? 24 A. Yes. 25 0. What responsibilities, if any, did Mr. Wheeler - 39 - COHCANNON & JAEGER *t 1 have regarding environmental contamination of PCBs between 2 the time you began working at Monsanto and the time that he 3 reti red? 4 THE WITNESSj Can you road that, give me that 5 question again? 6 (Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous question.) 7 A, I donBt know. 8 0. (By Mr, Bradley) At the time you became 9 medical director in December of 1974, who, if anyone within 10 the medical department, had any responsibility relating to 1 1 the subject matter of PCBs? 1 2 A* Mr. Wheeler. 13 0 And what responsibilities did he have when you 14 became medical director regarding PCBs? 15 A. He continued on that same assignment. 16 Q. All right. What responsibilities did he have 17 regarding PCBs? You said he was head of the industrial 18 hygiene section. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. He worked on environmental contamination of 2 1 PC3s? 22 A. Yee. 23 Q. I'm trying to figure out what that means. 24 What did he do as head of the industrial hygiene section 25 relating to PCBs? - 40 CONCANNOH & JAEGEK 1 A Nothing. He didn't dp anything He kept 2 up-to-date, 3 Q. And he was the only one who had 4 responsibilities in the medical department relating to 5 PCSg ? 6 A. Yes, 7 Q, At least up until his retirement? 8 A* Yes, 9 HR, FEATHERSTONBi Off the record. 1 0 (Whereupon, a discussion was held between Counself off the 1 1 record,) 1 2 Q, (By Mr, Bradley) During the time that you 13 were medical director, did you ever prepare a summary of 14 data on the toxicity of Aroclor? 15 A. MO, 16 0, During the time that you were in the medical 17 department as associate director and director, up to the 18 time of your retirement, did the medical department ever 19 prepare a summary of data on the toxicity of Aroclor? 20 A, Yes* 2 1 Q. Who prepared that? 22 A* Levinskas 23 Q. Did you review it? 24 A. Yes* 25 Q, What did you do, if anything, prior to - 41 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 reviewing that summary? 2 A. It was after I retired* 3 Q* You prepared the summary after you retired? 4 A* Yes* 5 Q, Why is itr then# that you reviewed it if you 6 were retired? 7 A* I do work for Monsanto* a Q. You still do consulting work for Monsanto? 9 A* Yes* 10 Q. Do you recall the year that you reviewed the 1 1 summary prepared by Dr* Levinskas? 1 2 A* No* 13 Q* Help me again* What year did you retire? 14 A. *8 8 . 15 Q* Do you know whether# between 1973# the month 16 that you began your employment in the medical department, 17 and the time of your retirement# whether the medical 18 department prepared a document or a summary on the data of 19 the toxicity of Aroclor? 20 A* No. 2 1 Q* No# you don't know or -- 2 2 A. we did not* 23 Q* You did not. When you did review the summary 24 that was prepared after your retirement, what, if anything, 25 did you do prior to the review? -42CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 A. I don't know what you moan by the question* z Q Wel.l r did you review any toxicology standard 3 textbooks or any studies? Did you do anything at all to 4 prepare you to review a document which was a summary of 5 data on the toxicity of Aroclor? 6 A Mo * 7 Q* Did you write a ~~ Excuse me* Did you 8 provide something written as part of your review of the 8 summary of data on the toxicity of Aroclor? 10 A Mo. 1 1 0 Okay, Did youorally give someoneyour 1 2 impressions of the summary? 13 A, Levinskae* 14 0, All right. So after he gave you the summaryf 15 you met with him or you spoke with him and told him what 16 you thought of the summary? Yes? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q, And do you recall what you told him regarding 18 the summary? 20 A. X thought he did a good job. 2 1 0. Did you indicate to him whether there were any 22 areas that he had omitted from the summary that perhaps he 23 shouldn't - perhaps should be included? 24 MR* FEATHERSTOME $ bet me hear that question 25 back now please* - 43 CONCANNON & JAEGER r 1 (Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous question.) 2 A. HO.. 3 MR. FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form. 4 0. (By Mr. Bradley) My question is,did you 5 indicate to Dr. Levinskas any areas that you thought he 6 should include in the summary that he hadn't included? 7 A. HO. 8 Q. In your estimation, it was a thorough review 9 of the summary of the tonicity of Aroclor? 10 MR. PEATHERSTONEt Object to the form. 1 1 Q. (By Mr* Bradley) In your opinion, it was a 1 2 thorough review on the data on the toxicity of Aroclor? 13 A. I can't answer the question. 14 Q. Did you view it as a comprehensivereview of 15 the data on the toxicity of Aroclor? 16 A. I can't answer that question. 17 Q. All right. Is my question not clear? IS A. Yes. The question you asked me, I can't 19 answer 20 Q, Why can't you answer it? 2 1 A. Because you're asking more out of me than I 22 have to give. 23 Q. All right. You didn't know whether it was a 24 comprehensive review? 25 A. When you do a comprehensive review, do you - 44 CONCAHHOH & .7ASGER 9 X look at just this or do you 90 back and read other things 2 to make sure it's complete? Is that.what you do? The 3 answer is no* 4 Q* All right. I take it, you didnat do anything 5 to determine whether it was a comprehensive -- 6 A. X didn't do anymore than read what he had 7 done* 0 0 All right* Describe for me, if you will, what 9 documents you reviewed between 1973 and the time you 10 reviewed the summary prepared by Dr Bevinskas on the XI subject of PCBs* Can you do that? 1 2 THE WITNESS* What did you say I would do? 13 Say it again. 14 Q* (By Nr* Bradley) I'm interested in knowing 15 what documents. If any, you reviewed over the fifteen or 16 sixteen years you were employed at Monsanto regarding the 17 subject matter of PCBs. 13 A* That's a tough -- I can give some but don't 19 ask me to say what l did* 20 HR* BRADBEYs All right* Go ahead and give me 2 1 what you can* 22 A. Patty's got a good section on that* 23 Q. All right. 24 A. Kimbrell has written on the subject, on 25 dioxins and furans and things like that. - 45 - I ____________________________________________________________ 1 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 HR. FEATHERSTOHE: He *a talking about PCBs, Dr. 2 Roush. 3 A. I'm talking about the book. That's the title 4 of the book 5 HR. FEATHERSTONE; All eight. 6 MR. BRADLEYS Okay. 7 A. There's a National Research Council article on 8 PCBsf good one. 9 0. (By Mr. Bradley) Ail right. Did you review 10 any of the articles that ere in Mr. Wheeler's file 1 1 regarding PCBs? 1 2 A. Ho 13 Q. Did you review any articles, if there were 14 any, in the library of Monsanto's medical department on 15 PCBs? 16 A. Yes. 17 0 . What do you recall about the articles that you id reviewed? 19 MR, FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form. 20 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) Do yourecall why you 2 1 reviewed articles on PCBs in Monsanto's medical department 22 library? 23 A. An internal discussion. 24 Q. Do you recall which studies you reviewed? 25 A. NO. - 46 COMCANNON & JAEGER i 0 Do you recall how many studies you reviewed? 2 A. Ho. 3 0 Do you recall whether there were more than 4 five? 5 A. Oh# yes. 6 Q* Do you recall whether there were more than 7 ten? 8 A. Ho. 9 THE WITNESSs You mean in all that time# from 10 the beginning to the end? 1 1 HR* BRADLEYS Yes. 1 2 HR. FEATHERSTOHE: Fifteen years# Dr. Roush. 13 MR. BRADLEY: From the time you began your 14 employment to the time you retired from Monsanto. 15 A. I don't know. 1<S Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Did you ever attempt to 17 comprehensively review all the literature that had been 18 written on the subject matter of PCBs during the period of 19 time you worked at Monsanto? 20 HR. FEATHERSTOHEt Object to the form. 2 1 A. HO. 2 2 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) When you began your work at 23 Monsanto# did you have any discussions with Dr. Kelly 24 regarding the subject matter of PCBs? 25 A. HO. - 47 CONCANNON > JAEGER 1 Q, When you began your work at Monsanto* did the 2 medical department have any responsibility for preparing 3 any materials regarding the subject matter of PCBs? 4 A. They participated in the safetydata sheets, 5 Q. Anything else? 6 A. HO* 7 Q* Do you know whether* by reviewingdocuments or 8 by talking with other people within the medical department 9 during the time you were employed with Monsanto, do you 10 know whether the medical department participated in the 1 1 preparation of any materials on PC3a prior to the time you 1 2 were a Monsanto employee? 13 A So* 14 Q, X take it, you heard of the term furan? 15 A* Yes* 16 Q. Do you recall when you first -- Hell, let me 17 ask it this way. po you recall whether you heard that term 18 for the first time before or after you began your 19 employment with Monsanto? 20 A, After. 2 1 0- Okay. Do you recall how it was that you heard 22 the term for the first time? 23 A. First episode of chioracne. 24 0 * When was the first episode of chioracne? 25 A. Long before I joined Monsanto. - 48 CONCAKNOM & JAEGER 1 Q. How did you learn about that first episode? 2 THE WITNESS $ Talking about chloracne? 3 Q, (By Nr. Bradley) Was the first episode of 4 chloracne a Monsanto employee; is that what you meant? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q* Anddo you recall who told you about the 7 Monsanto employee who had the first episode of chloracne? 8 A* No 9 Q And what were you told* if anything, about the 10 relationship of that first episode and furans? 1 1 MB. FEATHERSTONEs Object to the form of the 1 2 questioning, 13 A, We had an episode of chloracne and we didn't 14 know what caused it, 15 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Did somebody indicate to you 16 that it might have been caused by furans? 17 A. Didn't know there was such a term as furans 18 Q* You indicated that you heard the term furan in 19 regards to this first episode of chloracne What did you 20 hear? 2 1 HR* FEATHERSTONE: Object to the form of the 22 questioning, 23 Q. (By Nr. Bradley) Did you hear anything at all 24 regarding furans in relationship to this first episode of 25 chloracne while you were employed at Monsanto? - 49 COHCANNON & JAEGER * if>#WA"* 4AWJ^* 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What did you hear? 3 MR. FEATHERSTONE* Same objection to the form 4 of the question. 5 A. This requires -- We had an episode of 6 chloracne and we always said we had one case/ one instance. 7 Q* And did somebody -- S A. Then as time went on, then we learned how to 9 do furano and then they said that was a furan that did it. 10 Q. Do you recall what date it was, or ~ Let me 1 1 ask it this way. Was it in the 1970s that Monsanto had its 1 2 first episode of chloracne? 13 A. I don't know when it was. It was before me* 14 Q. You wouldn't know, then, whether it was the 15 *60s, 150s, *40s? 16 A. Mo, sir. 17 Q* When did you first hear that the first episode 18 of chloracne might have been caused by furane? 19 A. Recently. 20 Q# And who told you that? 2 1 A. 7 don't remember. 22 Q. ftas it someone with Monsanto? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Someone within the medical department? 25 A. Yes. - 50 COHCAMNON & JAEGER I 1 Q* Had you heard about furans before this medical 2 department employee suggested to you that Monsanto's first 3 episode of chloracne might have been caused by furans? 4 THE WITNESS; Can you ask that question again? 5 HR, BRADLEY: Yes. 6 Q* (By Hr. Bradley) I 'm interested in knowing 7 whether you heard about furans before you had this 8 conversation relating furans to the first episode of 9 chloracne. 10 A. Came in before I knew that there were furans in 1 1 our PCBs* and that means trace levels. 12 Q. when did you know that your PCBs had trace 13 levels of furans? 14 A. I don't know. It?a recent though, and I can't 15 tell you what recent" means. 16 Q. Can you tell me whether it was before you 17 retired? 18 A. Yes. Well, about the time I retired. 19 Recently," that means after that. I don't know. 20 Q. When did you first hear about the Yusho 2 1 episode? 22 A. At the time of the Chicago symposium. 23 Q. Was that in 1975? 24 A. '74 r *75. 25 Q. The Chicago symposium was - or do you recall - 51 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 who sponsored the Chicago symposium? 2 A*. I think it was EPA. 3 Q. Did you speak at that symposium? 4 A, Wo. 5 Q* You must -- I take itr you attended it? 6 A* Yes* 7 0* Do you recall what sessions of the symposium 8 you attended that addressed the subject matter of PCBs? 9 A. The whole meeting was PCBs* 10 Q* All right. Do you recall which sessions you 11 attended that addressed the subject matter of furans? 1 2 A* X think it was part of the general program* 13 Q. Why was it that you attendod that symposium? 14 A* The IBT resultswere published# were given out 15 at that time, 16 Q* And what was it about the IBT results that led 17 you to attend the Chicago symposium? 13 A, Monsanto paid for the IBT study, 19 Q, Okay. Why did completion of the study mean 20 that you attended the Chicago symposium? 2 1 A, Why did that mean X attended? We had an 22 Investment in it. 23 Q. Did you attend the Chicago symposium# at least 24 in part# then# to help protect your investment? 25 HR. PEATnERSTONS: Object to the form* - 52 CONCANNOH 6 JAEGER fc 1 A. Primarily to learn all I could learn about 2 PCBS . 3 0* (By Mr. Bradley) Well# did youattend the 4 Chicago symposium# in part# to help protect Monsanto*a 5 investment in PCBs? 6 MR. FBATBERSTONE* Object to the form. 7 A. I can't answer it in that form. 0 Q* (By Mr. Bradley) Rave you heard theterm 9 polychlorinated dibenzylfuran? 10 A. Yes. 1 1 Q. What is a polychlorinated dibenzylfuran? 1 2 A. It's a diphenyl in which the two rings are 13 joined by an oxygen# one of the two. 14 Q Do you recall when the first time was that you 15 heard the term polychlorinated dibenzylfuran? 16 A. Mo. 17 Q. Do you know whether it's ever been claimed 13 that polychlorinated dibenzylfurans are chemical 19 contaminants of PCBs? 20 A. Yes. 2 1 0 Did you learn that during the time that you 2 2 were employed at Monsanto? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did you learn that at least by the time the 25 Chicago symposium was completed? - 53 CONCANHON & JAEGER 1 MR. FEATHERSTONE: That it was claimed? 2 HR.. BRADLEY: Yes. 3 A. X joined Monsanto in *73. It was two years 4 after thafr that that symposium took place. 5 MR. BRADLEY: Right. 6 A. Mow everything I learned there was new to me 7 because t was new on PCBs. 8 0. (By Mr. Bradley) Well my I'm interested 9 in knowing whether you ever learned that polychlorinated 10 dibenzylfurans arc, in fact/ chemical contaminants of PCBs? 1 1 A. I 'm not sure when but the first thing we 1 2 learned about furans was USBA, and USHA was presented there 13 and X can't tell you whether it was then or shortly 14 thereafter. 15 Q. But you do agree that polychlorinated 16 dibenzylfurans are chemical contaminants of PCBs? 17 MR. FEATHERSTONE2 Object to the lack of IS foundation. 19 A. My impression is it is a little bit. 20 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Okay. Can you compare the 2 1 toxicity of PCBs to polychlorinated dibenzylfurans? 22 A. Mo. Nor can anyone else. 23 Q. Do you know wheather or not polychlorinated 24 dibenzylfurans are considered more toxic than PCBs? 25 A. T don't know. - 54 CONCAIUION & JAEGER 1 Q. During the time that you.worked at Monsanto 2 did you ever speak with anyone from Nevada power Company? 3 A* SO. 4 Q, During the tiiae you were employed at Monsanto 5 did you ever speak with any electric utility company 5 regarding PCBs? 7 A. Not to my knowledge* 6 Q. During the time you were employed at Monsanto 9 did you speak with anyone from General Electric regarding 10 PCS? 1 1 A* Not that I recall* 1 2 Q* During the time you were employed at Monsanto 13 did you speak with anyone from Westinghouse regarding PCBs? 14 A, Same answer* IS Q* During the period of time you were employed at 16 Honsanto do you know whether the head of the toxicology 17 section in the medical department ever spoke with any IS electric utility regarding the subject matter of PCBs? 19 A* I don't think so* 20 Q* During ~ 2 1 THE WITNESSs You're talking about while I was 2 2 medical director? 23 MR. BRADLEY* I'm talking about while you were 24 employed at Monsanto* 25 A* Yes. - 53 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 MR BRADLEY: Including the time you were 2 associate director. 3 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) During the time you were at 4 Monsanto do you know whether the head of the toxicology 5 section of the medical department at Monsanto ever 3poke 6 with anyone from General Electric regarding PCBs? 7 A Ho* 8 Q* During that time you were employed at 9 Monsanto, do you know whether the head of the toxicology 10 section of the medical department of Monsanto ever spoke n with anyone from Westinghouse regarding PCBs? 1 2 A. I don't know. 13 Q. You began your work at Monsanto in *73 and Dr. 14 Kelly retired in *74? is that correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q* Do you recall roughly how many months you'd 17 worked there before he retired? ^ 18 A. About eighteen or nineteen months. 19 0* And during that eighteen or nineteen month 20 period did Dr. Kelly explain to you what he knew about 2 1 PCBS? 22 A. My teacher was Wheeler. 23 Q. So I take it you and Kelly didn't have those 24 kinds of discussions? 25 A. Mo. He left it up to him. * 56 - COMCAKNON & JAEGER 1 Q* All right* 2 A* That was his responsibility* 3 Q* During those eighteen or nineteen months 4 before Dr* Kelly retired, did Dr* Kelly show you any 5 documents relating to PCBs? 6 A* Ho. 7 Q* Those were all shown to you by Dr* Wheeler, or 8 Mr. Wheeler? 9 A * Yes * 10 Q* Do you know whether Mr* Wheeler is still 1 1 living? 1 2 A* Wo, he is not* 13 Q* When did he pass away? 14 A, Couple of years ago* 15 Q* During the time that you were employed at 16 Monsanto, was Mr. Wheeler always the head of the toxicology 17 section of the medical department at Monsanto? 18 MR. FEATHERSTONEi That's not how he has been 19 identified* 20 A* Re was not. 2 1 MR* BRADLEY: Excuse me, Mr* Wheeler was head 22 of the industrial hygiene section? 23 A* Yes* 24 Q. (By Mr* Bradley) Andduring `that period, 25 during the time you were employed at Monsanto, was Mr* - 57 COHCANMCN & JAEGER 1 Wheeler always the head of the industrial hygiene section 2 of the medical department at Monsanto? 3 A. Re quit within three or four years after I 4 retired - I mean after t joined the company. 5 Q* So he quit in 1976 or '7? 6 A* Yes 7 Q. Who took his position when he quit? 3 A* Jack Garrett. 9 0 When Jack Garrett became head of the 1 0 industrial hygiene section in the medical department, did 1 1 you then turn to Mr. Garrett regarding the subject matter 1 2 of PCBb ? 13 A. Roth he and Levinskas. 14 Q. What training did Mr. Garrett have in the 15 subject matter of PCBg prior to taking over the industrial 16 hygiene section? 17 HR. FEATHERSTONE* Object to the absence of 18 foundation 19 A* He was the head of industrial hygiene section 20 and the subject of PCBs was part of his regular duties. 2 1 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Were you responsible for the 22 appointment of Mr. Garrett to the head of the industrial 23 hygiene section? 24 A. Yes. 25 0. Did you meet with Mr. Garrett prior -- Well? - 58 CONCAHHOH & JAEGER i you were the one who promoted Mr* Garrett to the head? 2 A* Yes. 3 Q. Did you meet with him and talk with him about 4 the appointment prior to making the appointment? 5 A* Yes. 6 Q* Okay* And when you met with him, did you 7 disease with him hie knowledge of PCBs? 8 A. I knew he knew about PCBs by that time. 9 Q. How did you know that he knew about PCBs prior 10 to meeting with him regarding hie appointment to be 1 1 industrial hygiene section head? 12 A. Just discussion* 13 Q. Discussion with Mr* Garrett? 14 A. Yes* And Levinskas. 15 Q. And when you made the appointment, what did 16 you know about Mr* Garrett's background in PCBs? 17 A* I knew It as it was applied to Monsanto. 18 Q* When you made the appointment, did you know 19 whether Mr* Garrett was on toxicologist? 20 A. Mo, he was not* 21 0 . 22 hygiene? Did he have a graduate degree in industrial 23 A. I don't know. 24 Q. You knew, though, that he worked with the 25 industrial hygiene section in Monsanto? - 59 - CGNCANHON & JAEGER 1 A Yes* For many years 2 Q* Are you familiar with the Monsanto product 3 Known as 1016? 4 A. Yes 5 0 . Did that product exist before you began your 6 employment with Monsanto? 7 A* I don't Know, 3 Q. The PCBs manufactured by Monsanto were known 3 as Aroclors? 10 A, Yes. 11 Q* And the Aroclors all had different numbers, 12 correct? 13 A. Well, there were PCBs with different chlorine 14 attachments. 15 0 . There were, for example, Aroclors 1221, 1242, 16 1254, 1260? Yea? 17 A. Yes. IS Q And the `"12" denominated what7 13 A* I don't Know. 20 Q- Do you know what the second two digits 21 denorainated? 22 A* That's the chlorine content. 23 Q* And 1016 was a product that contained PCBsy is 24 that correct? 25 A. We just said that before, and I don't know - 60 CONCANNON JAEGER * iifiJ.VJC4 r anything about 1016. 2 Q. You don't know whether 1016 had any PCBs in 3 it? 4 A* Ho. Xt doesn't sound like it could. 5 Q. All right* No, sir, it doesn't* 6 MI?. FEATHERSTONEt I move to strike that 7 comment* 8 0* (By Hr* Bradley) During the time you were 9 employed at Monsanto, did you ever hear that PCBs might 10 cause harm to human health? 1 1 THE WITNESSt Wight cause what? 12 MR* BRADLEY: Harm to human health* 13 A* Yes* 14 Q* (By Mr. Bradley) When did you first hear 15 that? 16 A. When I first heard of PCBs. 17 0 * What kind of harm did you hear PCBs might 18 cause to human health? 19 MR. FEATHERSTONE1 Object to the form of the 20 questioning* 21 A. It is an irritant* 22 0# (By Mr. Bradley) To the akin? 23 A. And to the eyes. 24 Q. What else did you hear about it? 25 A. I'm not through with irritation* - 61 CONCANMON & JAEGER *wiwvjv,k ir n uc* X 0- Isorry. o*>+ A. It's a respiratory irritation too. 3 Q p What's a respiratory irritant? 4 A. One that causes couch 5 0 All right* 6 A* And there is -- And so you can get irritation 7 of skin, eyes and respiratory track. It also, with some 8 question/ produces liver effects, in terms of change in the 9 levels of enzymes and effects what we call liver function 10 studies* You have a change in alkaline phosphate, SCOT, 1 1 SGTP and GGTP. Those are all capitalized. There is a -- 12 m FEATHERSTOHBs This is what you heard? 13 A. Ho* This is what X knew, what I've read. 14 MR. FEATHERSTONEt He asked what you heard 15 when you joined, is the question. 15 MR. BRADLEY: Actually, X don't believe that's 17 the question at all* why don't you read the question back. 10 {Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous question.) 19 20 you hear. MR. FEATHERSTONSa The question is, what did 21 THE WITNESS: As opposed to what X read? 22 MR. BRADLEYi The question is, what did you 23 hear. Hot when you first started, but what did you hear 24 when you first heard that PCBs might cause harm to human 25 health. - 62 - CONCANNON & JAEGER . * <1JT'i1UN 1 MR. FEATHERSTONE* Object to the fora of the 2 questioning, 3 MR. BRADLEY:* Well, I fIl c-ask it. 4 Q. (By Mr. Bradley} Was there ever a point when 3 you learned that PCBs might cause harm to human health? 6 A. Yes. 7 0 . when did you first learn that? 3 A. X don't know. 9 Q. What kind of harm did you learn that PCBs 1 0 might cause to human health? 11 A. Would causa irritation, as I 've described. 12 That's common sense. It may cause change in the liver 13 function, it may have an effect on the nervous system. 14 Those are all of what we call acute effects. 15 Q. Did you ever learn that PCBs might.cause 16 chronic effects to human health? 17 A. There is a question whether It does or not. t 18 Q, What did you learn about that? 19 MR. FEATHERSTONBt Object to the form of the 20 questioning* 21 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) What did you learn about 22 whether PCBs cause chronic effects to human health? 23 MR. FEATHERSTOHE: Object to the form of the 24 questioning. 25 A. I didn't say that it caused chronic effects. - 63 CONCANNON & JAEGER iT'iiun r Q. (By Mr. Bradley) What did you learn that 2 indicated to you.that PCBs may cause chronic harmful 3 effects to human health? 4 MR. PEATHERSTOME: Object to the form of the 5 questioning* 6 A* Learned that at the Chicago symposium as soon 7 as I joinedr shortly after I joined* a is related to what I learned there* A lot of my knowlege 9 Q* (By Mr* Bradley) Andwhat kind ofchronic 10 effects did you learn PC3s might cause to human health? 11 MR* PBATBERSTOSEi Object to the form of the 12 questioning* 13 A* PCBs in rodents causes liver damage, as we've 14 described, and in a bigger dose, will produce a more 15 lasting effect maybe, and maybe it will go away* 16 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Didyou ever learn whether 17 PCBs causes a skin condition called chloracne? 18 A* Yes* 19 Q. Did you ever learn whether, if a worker has 20 chloracne, it might indicate some kind of a more serious 21 chronic systemic poisoning? 22 HR. FEATHSRSTONE: Object to the form of the 23 questioning* 24 A. Mo. 25 Q. In your discussions with Dr* Levinckas, did he - 64 - COMCANNON S JAEGER v * u^ rix #um A X Si* JLAU N > 1 over indicate to you that if a worker has a skin rash 2 following exposure to FCBs, that that could indicate a 3 systemic poisoning? 4 A. Ho* 5 0* Are you familiar with the phrase "systemic 6 poisoning?" 7 A* Yes. a Q, What does that mean? 9 A. It means it's not superficial, in effect. So 10 if it involves -- If it's ono of the organ systems, it's 11 called a systemic effect. 12 Q. Like the heart or the lungs or the liver? 13 A. Or the GZ tract or the kidneys or whatever* 14 Q* Have you ever heard the name Dr*Lewis 15 Schwartz? 16 A * No * 17 G. Did Dr* Kelly ever tellyou that he 18 participated in a round table discussion in 1937 regarding, 19 in part, chlorinated biphenyls? 20 A* No* 21 Q. Did Dr* Levinskas, oranyone else, ever toll 22 you that PCBs were alleged, or excuse me, it was alleged 23 that PCBs caused harm to the liver, as early as the 1940s? / 24 MR. FEATHERSTONEt Object to the form of the 25 questioning. - 65 COHCANNON & JAEGER wvt *AWl'< i A. I've read that r* 2 0 . (By.Mr. Bradley) When did you read that? 3 A. X can't answer that question. 4 Q. Did you read any Monsanto document that warned 5 purchasers of Monsanto products that it was known back in 6 the '40s that PCBs might cause harm to the liver? | 7 A. There was a pamphlet that was put.out that 8 said be careful of this and this and this* 9 Q* bid the pamphlet indicate that back in the 10 '40s* it was alleged that exposure to PCBs might harm the 11 liver? 12 A This document doesn't say that. It says, *Do 13 not get skin contact or inhalation exposure. 1 14 Q. Doesnat say .it might cause liver problems? 15 A* But it talks about limiting air exposure. 16 Q N What's the name of the pamphlet? 17 A. Safety Data Sheet, I think, of 3 cmc form. 18 0 . Have you ever heard of a-Hr. P.R. Kaimer, 19 K-a-i-m-e-r? 20 A. Mo. 21 Q. During the time you were employed at Monsanto, 22 did you ever learn whether any General Electric employees 23 were alleged to have severe cases of acne because of their 24 exposure to materials that contained, in part, chlorinated 25 biphenyl? - 66 - CONCAilNOM & JAEGER a Ai*T1UXi 1 ' A* No, 2 0 During the time you worked at Monsanto, were 3 you ever - did you ever learn about a product called 4 Haiowax? 5 A Yes# G* What was Halowax? 7 A. I don't remember* 3 0. Do you recall whether Itcontained parts of 9 chlorinated biphenyl? 10 A, It was a question, of whether It did* 11 Q. It contained chlorinatedMapthalene thoughr 12 didn't it? 13 A* I think so* 14 Q. During the time you worked at Monsanto, were 15 you - did you ever learn that workers exposed to Halowax 16 developed chloracne? 17 A. X think so* That was a long time ago* 18 Q. During the time you worked at Monsanto, did 19 you ever learn that it was alleged that at least one worker 20 may have died because of exposure to Halowax?. 21 A* X don't remember that* 22 Q* During the time that you were employed at 23 Monsanto, did you ever learn whether Monsanto undertook any 24 studies to determine whether Halowax contained PCBs? 25 A. I don't know. 67 CONCANNON . JAEGER xnwt> k it*TION 1 Q* Did you l o a m about Halow&x from Dr. tevinskas 2 or Mr. Wheeler? . 3 A. Reading 4 Q. what were you reading? 5 A* Just on the general subject on PCBs, and that <S may have come up then 7 0, Were you reading a study or were you reading a 8 report prepared by a Monsanto employee? 9 A, No No* Xt was written. It was published. 10 0. During the time that you were employed at 11 Monsantor did Monsanto manufacture PCBs? 12 Ai Vos * 13 Q* And during that time when Monsanto wae 14 manufacturing PCBs and you were employed there, did 15 Monsanto give the workers fresh clothing before they began 16 their work shift? 17 A. Fresh clothing was a part of this safety data 18 sheet that X was telling you about* That was given to 19 customers* too 20 Q* Safety data sheet was given to customers? 21 A. Ves. 22 0 Customers would be General Electric and 23 Westinghouse? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And did the safety data sheet tell GE and - 58 CONCANNON S, JAEGER ******* **auu i.KnnoiwKJ.Jf'X'XON 1 ttestinghcuao that employees working with PCBs should change 2 their clothing daily? 3 A. Yes* 4 Q* And during the time that you wore employed at 5 Monsanto, did the workers working with PCBs change their 6 shoes daily? 7 MR. FEATHERSTOHEt Object to the form of the 3 questioning# and also object to the lack of foundation* 9 A* That's a detail 1 can't answer. They were 10 told not to have PCBs on their clothes# so that means 11 changing things* 12 Q* (By Hr* Bradley) Well# didMonsanto wash the 13 clothing for its employees? 14 HR* FEATHBRSTOHBs Objection* Lack of 15 foundation* No showing this witness has personal 16 knowledge* 17 A* I don't know* 18 Q. (By Hr* Bradley) And do you recallwhether 19 Monsanto did anything else to provide clean apparel for 20 workers working with PCBs during the time that you were at 21 Monsanto and Monsanto was manufacturing PCBs? 22 A* I just recall there was fresh gear, 23 0 , Well# did the gear include fresh gloves? 24 A, Yea* 25 Q. Did the gear include fresh pants? - 69 CONCANNON & JAEGER uw AAnHOV.iiUrilU) 1 A Yes. 2 Q, Fresh shirts? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Fresh shoes? 5 A. I don*t rernewhor. 6 Q. Freeh socks? 7 A. Yes. Fresh gloves. 6 MR. FEATHERSTONBs You already did gloves. 9 THE WITNESS: Huh? 10 MR. FEATHERSTONE: We already did gloves. 11 A. All right. 12 Q (By Mr. Bradley) And the safety data sheet 13 that you gave: to GE and Westinghouse and other customers 14 advised them to also have their workers have fresh 15 clothing? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Fresh apparel? 1 0 A* Yes. 19 Q. All right. 20 MR, FEATHERSTONE* Including -- "You," 2 1 meaning the witness? The witness already said he dian*t 22 have any contact with them. You mean Monsanto? 23 MR. BRADLEY: Monsanto. 24 MR. FEATHESTONE: All right. 25 A. Monsanto. -70CONCANNON & JAEGER n vs*u i'KANiiCSXFTIOt) i Q* (By fir, Bradley) Did Monsanto do anything to 2 insure -- Weil,.let me back off* When you sold PCBs to 3 General Electric during the time that you were employed at 4 Monsanto# you knew that they were going to be used in 5 transformers and capacitors# didn't you? 6 A* Yes, 7 Q, You knew that GE and Westinghouse would sell a those transformers to electric utility companies? 9 A Yes. 10 0 And what# if anything# did Monsanto do to n inform the electric utility companies about the safety data 12 sheets that describe the need to have fresh apparel? 13 A* They gave this information. I don't know who 14 they gave it to. 15 Q. I'm going so show you what's been mark for 16 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 979 and ask you to 17 review that. 18 HR. FEATHERSTONBt Mr. Bradley, do you want 19 him to read the document? 20 MR. BRADLEY: X do want him to do that. Well# 21 let me ask this question first. 22 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Have you seen that document 23 before? 24 A. X think so* 25 HR. BRADLEY: Then I do want him to review it. - 71 COMCANNON JAEGER -- . w m,uuu r'iiUN 1 I*a happy taking a five or ten minute break while you 2 review that* 3 THE WITNESS* I want to take a break with you, 4 MR* BRADLEY: All right, 5 (Whereupont a twenty minute recess was taken.) 6 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Dr. Roush, have you had an 7 opportunity to at least skim Plaintiff's Exhibit 979? 8 A* Yes* 9 Q* And is that a document that you've seen 10 before? 11 A* Yes* 12 Q* And was that a document that was maintained in 13 a file within Monsanto's medical department? 14 A. 1 didn't see itthere* 15 Q. Where did you see it? 16 A* In my review of looking at fiapthaienes* 17 Q. All right. And where did you grab Excuse 18 me. Where did you go to review materials relating to 19 Mapthalenes? 20 A* I'm sure it was at Monsanto* 21 Q. All right.So this is a documentthat you 22 would have reviewed at Monsanto? 23 A. I think so. 24 0. All right. And would that have been in the 25 medical department library? - 72 - CONCAMHOM JAEGER Ti^AHSCHlP71 OH 1 A* Yes* 2 Q* Did Monsanto, in 1973 when you began 3 employment there, have a separate file on Hapthaienes? 4 A. I don't know, 5 G. After you began work with Monsanto in 1973, 6 did Monsanto ever have a file exclusively on Hap&halenes? 7 A* I don't know* 8 Q* Do you -- Can PCBs get absorbed through the 9 skin? 10 A* To a degree* 11 Q* Did Monsanto ever tell its customers that PCBs 12 get absorbed through the skin? 13 A* Yes* We were told to wear leather gloves to 14 prevent its absorbtion* 15 0* So the safety data sheets say wear gloves 15 because If you don't, PCBs get absorbed into the skin? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. Yes? 19 A* It says wear gloves to prevent absorbtion* 20 Q* Did Monsanto ever inform electric utility 21 companies that PCBs get absorbed through the skin? 22 A. That wasn't my responsibility* My answer is, 23 I think it was* 24 Q* And who do you think informed utility 25 companies that PCBs get absorbed through the skin? - 73 COMCAMWojs & JASGER - nu*i/uu iecttftI**KiJ'>ION 1 A. I don't Know* 2 G* Would that have come through the industrial 3 hygiene section of the medical department? 4 A* I don't think so* 5 Q Would it have come through the medical 6 department at all? 7 A* I don't think so* 8 0. Which department would it have come through? 9 A. Prom the business group that was working with 10 PC3s # 11 0 Through the marketing and sales folks? 12 A* Well# there are those who had responsibilifcy 13 for safety, as well. 14 Q. And which ones -- Which people had 15 responsibility for safety, as well? 16 A* l*m talking about the business group. Within 17 that business group, they did it. 18 Q Within marketing and sales there were people 19 20 MR FEATHERSTONBs He said business group* 21 Q. (By Mr* Bradley) Is the business group the 22 same as marketing and sales? 23 A. But they also have the responsibilities on 24 handling the product. 25 G. But when you referenced the business group, cowcAwaoa & j a s g s r --- o iMbU ItiHNSitJRIPTIOM "I. 1 ' were you referring to the marketing and sales people? 2 A, And other things that make -- The business 3 group does a business on PCBs, included in that was 4 responsibility to tell the customers what they needed to 5 know, 6 Q, And who then was responsible within Monsanto 7 for telling the customers what it is that they needed to a know? 9 A, The business group. 10 Q. And who headed the business group during the ix time that you were at Monsanto? 12 A, I don't know 13 0 What would that person's title be? 14 A. 1 don't know. 15 0 Was there a department within Monsanto called 16 the Business Group? 17 A. Wei if each ono of our businesses# those that 13 worked with Ag products would have one business group# 19 those working with PCBs would be another group 20 q . All right. Was there a department or division 21 within Monsanto that was working with PCBs? 22 A. Yes, 23 Q. And what was that department or division 24 called? 25 A. X don't know. That's what you asked me, - 75 CONCANNON & JAEGER W i t * w * Mlt nAL/nu KAWbX:KIPTIOT3 1 Q* All right. How did the ~ Let me ask it this 2 way* Did the medical department inform the business people 3 about " Well, let me be more specific. Did Monsanto's 4 medical department inform Monsanto's business group working 5 with PCBs, that PCBs get absorbed through the skin? 6 A. Yes, 7 Q And have you seen a document sent by the 8 medical department to the business group working with FCBs 9 that says PCBs get absorbed through the skin? 10 A X think so* 11 Q. How, normally, wouldMonsanto'smedical 12 department give information to the business group working 13 with the PCBs about potential health hazards of PCBs? 14 A. They would talk to them, explain what the 15 action is, and then they would have an agreement how they 16 would contact the customer 17 0. And were thediscussions followed by 18 confirming letters, or anything written? 19 A, It would be between that business group. 20 Those who leave Monsanto and go, talk to that customer 21 would be the one who would carry that document. 22 Q. But after the medical department had a 23 discussion with the business group, would those be followed 24 by confirming letters between the medical department and 25 the business group regarding the subject matter of the - 76 CCNCAMMOM 6 JAEGSIi x XVXXUN 1 discussion? 2 A. I don't know. 3 0 * Did you ever talk with thebusiness group 4 working with PCBs and let them know that PCBs get absorbed 5 through the skin? 6 A* That was before X joined Monsanto* They 7 already knew it. a Q. Did you talk with anyone within the business 9 department of Monsanto working with PCBs where they 10 indicated to you that they knew PCBs get absorbed through 1 1 the skin? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q* Who did you speak with from thebusiness 14 department at Monsanto working with PCBs where they IS indicated they knew that PCBs get absorbed through the 16 skin? 17 A* The safety data sheet said it* 18 q . Did you talk -19 MB. BRADLEY; I'm sorry. Would you read 20 back the last two questions and answers? 21 (Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous two 22 questions and answers) 23 Q. (By Mr* Bradley) So let me go back* Who did r 24 you speak with within the business department who indicated 25 to you that the business department knew that PCBs get - 77 CONCANNON 6 JAEGER . ^ w w a n n i f U V A i i F'l i W i absorbed through skin? 2 MR*. PEATHERSTONE: You used ''business 3 department0 Re said business group* 4 MR. BRADLEY3 Business group# yes* 5 MR. FEATBERSTOHE: All right. 6 A. That safety data sheet was already written and 7 defined what the hazards were as to what they should do to 8 protect themselves from it# and included in that would be a 9 discussion# a statement# concerning the safety 10 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) My question# though# is -- 11 You indicated you'd spoken with someone within the business 12 group of Monsanto working with PCBs where they indicated to 13 you that they knew PCBs got absorbed through the skin So 14 my question to you is# who is it that you spoke with in the 15 business group of Monsanto's PCBs, working with Monsanto's 16 PCBs# that indicated to you that they knew PCBs get 17 absorbed into the skin? 18 A. X had a copy of their safety data sheet that 19 told me that. 20 Q* All right. 21 A. I don't need to have someone else to go ask 22 them# Xs this yours?" 23 Q. So you didn't talk ~ 24 A. Directly to them# because I knew it was taking 25 place because I had that safety data sheet* - 73 COHCANNON & -JAEGER <* A F A. A.U H 1 Q* All right. Did anyone from the business group 2 of Monsanto working with PCBs indicate to you that they 3 knew that there were acme studies suggesting that PC3s 4 might cause liver damage? 5 A. The studies that were done within Monsanto was 6 the XBT studies that showed that PCBs will effect the 7 liver* 6 Q. My question, though, is did anyone from the 9 business group of Monsanto working with PCBs ever indicate 10 to you that they knew that PCBs might damage the liver? 11 A* Mot to me* 12 Q. Did anyone from the business group at Monsanto 13 working with PCBs ever indicate to you that they knew 14 anything about the alleged association between PCBs and IS harmful effects on human health? 16 MR* FEATRERSTOttEt May I hear the question/ 17 please, Mr* Court Reporter? 18 (Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous question) 19 MR* BRADLEY: I lm going to rephrase the 20 question* 21 0 (By Mr* Bradley) Did anyone within the 22 business group at Monsanto working with PCBs ever indicate 23 to you that they knew that PCBs might cause harm to human 24 health? 25 A* Mat to to me, they didn't* - 79 CONCAMMON & JAEGER i 0* M d anyone within the business group of 2 Monsanto working with PCSs ever indicate to you that they 3 knew PCBs might cause harm to the environment? 4 A. No, 5 0* Did you ever review any documents generated by 6 the business group at Monsanto working with PCBs that 7 indicated that that knew that PCBs might cause harm to 8 human health? 9 A. Yes* 10 Q, Whatdocuments did you review? 11 A* There are aseries of safety data sheets that 12 describe that. 13 Q. Other than the safety data sheets# did you 14 review any documents that would indicate that the business IS group at Monsanto working with PCBs knew that PCBs might 16 cause harm to human health? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Other than this safetydata sheet, did you 19 review# have you ever reviewed any documents generated by 20 the business group at Monsanto working with PCBs that 21 indicates that PCBa might cause harm to the environment? 22 A. NO. 23 Q. During the time that youworked at Monsanto# 24 did you ever review any document generated by the medical 25 department to the business group at Monsanto working with - 80 COHCANNON & JAEGER 1 PCBs that described how - Excuse me - that Indicated PCBe 2 may cause harm to human health? 3 MR. PEATHERSTONBs May X hear that one back, 4 please, Mr, Court Reporter? 5 (Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous question.) 6 A. My safety data sheet is the only thing I've 7 got that talks about whether it will or will not produce 8 effects on human health. 9 Q* (By Mr. Bradley) Who generated the safety 10 data sheets? u A. The safety man from the business group working 12 with someone from the medical department. 13 Q. All right. And during the time you were 14 employed at Monsanto, did you review any documents that 15 were generated by Monsanto's medical department to 16 Monsanto's business group working with PCBs that indicated 17 PCBs may cause harm to the environment? 18 A. No. That wasn't our responsibility. It was 19 not the medical department's responsibility. 20 Q. Whose responsibility was it? 21 A. Business group. 22 Q. Did the business groupmaintain its own 23 library? 24 A. X don't know. 25 Q. How did the business group learn about PCBs - 81 COHCAHNON & JAEGER 1 causing harm to the environment? 2 HR. PEATHERSTOME! Objection. 3 A. X can't answer that. 4 MR. PEATHERSTONE: Ho showing ofpergonal 5 knowledge. 6 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Are youfamiliar with a 7 series of studies performed by a Professor Jensen in Sweden 8 regarding PCBs? 9 A. Ho. 10 Q. Are you aware of any studios at all that show 11 that PCBs may cause harm to the environment? 12 A. X can't answer that question. 13 0* why can't you answer the question? 14 A* X don't know what you mean by "damage to the 15 environment. ** 16 0* Hell# how about thinning of eggshells? 17 A. X think that would be a reasonable one, but 18 that's so Infrequent. 19 Q. Hell# did you# while you were employed at 20 Monsanto# did you review any studies that indicated PCBs 21 may cause eggshells to be thinner? 22 MR. FEATHSRSTONE: Object to the form# the 23 form of the question. 24 A. Yes# l*ve heard of that. 25 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) And did you relay that - 82 CONCAJINOH 6 JAEGER 1 information to the business group at Monsanto working on 2 PC3s? 3 A. No. 4 Qt And during the time you were at Monsanto, did 5 you learn that PCBs were being found in marine 6 environments? 7 A Yes* 8 Q. And did you relate thatinformation to the 9 business group? 10 A. They already knew It* 11 Q. How do you know they already knew it? 12 A. They got that from Wheeler becauseWheeler 13 knew that. 14 Q. Did you hear Wheeler tell the business group 15 about ~ 16 A. No. 17 0. You1re guessing that Nr. Wheeler told them 18 that? Is that what you're doing? 19 A. He worked closely with them. 20 Q. if you were going to find out who Hr.Wheeler 21 worked with in the business group at Monsanto working with 22 PCBs. what would you do? 23 A. Go and talk to one of the members of that 24 business group, 25 0. Which member of the business groupwould you - 83 CONCANNON & JAEGER i talk to? 2 t h e .WITNESSs By name? 3 MR* BRADLEY Yes* 4 A. Hr. Papageorge* 5 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) Is there a business group at 6 Monsanto working with PCBs that's different from the 7 marketing and sales? 8 A* They don't have a marketing or anything on 9 PCBs now* 10 Q. Let's talk about the '70s. During the '70s* 11 was there a business group at Monsanto working with PCBs 12 that was separate from Monsanto marketing and sales 13 departments? 14 A. I don't think so* 15 Q. During the time that you worked at Monsanto, 16 did you review any documents that indicated that 17 Plaintiff's Exhibit 979 was given to the business group at 13 Monsanto working with PCBs? 19 A. I don't know* 20 Q. Do you know of any research indicating PC3s 21 may cause malignant melanomas? 22 A. I know one paper in which it talked about it. 23 There were two cases. 24 Q. And when did you review the paper? 25 A. I knew about it before it was published. - 84 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 Q And when was it published? 2 A. I don't recall. 3 Q. When did you learn about it? 4 A. I can't answer that. 5 Q* You don't recall when you learned about the 6 malignant melanomas? 7 A. Yes. t had a direct call to tell me about it. 3 Q. Was that in the 1970s? 9 A. Whenever it happened. 1 don't remember that. 10 Q. Well, X know that you don't remember* but do 11 you remember whether it happened in the 1970s? 12 A. Xt would be the late '70s or early '80s. 13 0 Do you know whether that information was given 14 to the business group at Monsanto working with PCBs? 15 A* I think it was* 16 Q. And was it given to them in the form of a 17 letter or a report? 18 A. T don't remember. 19 C* Do you recall talking with anyone within the 20 business group at Monsanto working with PCBs about the 21 malignant melanoma cases? 22 MR. FEATHERSTONEj Object to the form of the 23 question. 24 A. X informed them that we did have itr I recall# 25 that we did receive it* that document. - 85 CONCANNOt? & JAEGER 1 Q* (Gy Hr Bradley) You informed someone at the N business group within Monsanto? 3 A Yes* 4 Q* All right. And who was it that you informed? 5 A, I can't recall* 6 Q, Do you recall whether it was via phone? 7 A* We met with them* 6 Q* Did you meet with them in Monsanto's medical 9 department? 10 A* 1 don't -- Yes, I'm sure we did* 11 Q* And who was there? 12 A* I can't recall* 13 Q. Do you recall whether there was someone from 14 the medical department at that meeting other than you? 15 A* I don't think so* 16 Q* Do you recall whether there was more than one 17 person from the business department at that meeting, 18 business group? 19 A* NO. 20 Q* Two of you? 21 A. At least two, 22 Q* And you orally described what you learned 23 about malignant melanomas? 24 A, Yes* 25 Q* And did the business group inform Monsanto's - 86 CONCANNON & JAEGER X At the time you learned about the malignant melanomas/ 2 did Monsanto still have customers for its PCB products? 3 A* 1 think so 4 0. And did Monsanto inform its customers about 5 what you learned regarding malignant melanomas and PCBs? 6 MR. FEATHERSTONE3 Nell/ X object to the form 7 of the question and foundation* He already testified that 8 was not his job/ that was the job of the business group* 9 MR. BRADLEYs You still have to answer the XO question* 11 A. With what X know, X can't answer your 12 question* 13 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Okay* 14 A* But we did respond* 15 Q* You did respond? 16 A* Yes* We told everyone. Everyone knew about 17 it* IS Q. What do you mean that you responded? 19 A* That malignant melanoma has already 20 disappeared as a subject* It's been published* The 21 medical director of Mobile called me and thanked me for the 22 fact that I helped them on it. And all of this that I've 23 said was given to Monsanto's business group* They knew 24 about my contacts and what had taken place* 25 Q* And did the -- Do you know whether Monsanto's - 87 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 business group, or Monsanto's medical department or any 2 department or group within Monsanto, ever told Monsanto's 3 customers about what you learned of malignant melanoma and 4 PCBs? 5 A. We haven't learned anything. We told them we 6 hadn't learned anything yet. 7 Q. Do you know of any studies or research 8 indicating PCBs may cause brain tumors? 9 A* NO. 10 Q. Do you know of any research or study 11 indicating PCBs may have caused injury to workers? 12 THE WITNESSt Injuries to workers? 13 MB. BRADLEY8 Yes. 14 A * Yes * 15 Q. {By Mr. Bradley) And what kind of injury did 16 those workers suffer? 17 A. Almost -- The only thing they see is the 18 result of irritation. 19 Q. Doctor, is there a difference between 20 irritation and chloracne? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Do you know of any research study indicating 23 PCBs may have caused chloracne to workers? 24 A. There is a lot of literature that talks about 25 it causing acne but to aay it causes chloracne is not - 88 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 clear* 2 0 Old Monsanto ever Inform Its customers that 3 PCBs -- Excuse me/ let me start all over again. Did 4 Monsanto ever inform its customers that it's not clear 5 whether PCBs may cause chloracne? 6 MR. FEA7HERST0HES Mali# same objection* 7 Absence of foundation for this witness to testify regarding a those questions* He's already identified for you, Mr* 9 Bradley, how it was Monsanto warned its customers* He said 10 it came through the business group. 11 THE WITNESSc You're anting about the 12 difference between chloracne and acne? 13 MR. BRADLEYi I'm asking you whether Monsanto, 14 whether you ever saw any documents or you heard anybody 15 ever say that Monsanto warned its customers that it's IS unclear whether PCB, or whether chloracne may be ~ may 17 result from exposure from PCBs. 18 A. There are accidents in which there is, I was 19 told there was chloracne. All this happened ~ 20 MR* FEATHERSTOWBt Mo. He's asking you 21 whether you have seen any document or heard any statement 22 that Monsanto warned its customers that exposure to PCBs 23 it's unclear that exposure to PCBs could cause chloracne. 24 I think I phrased that correctly. 25 MR* BRADLEYt Close enough* - 89 CONCANNON a JAEGER i A. X don't know. 2 Q. (By. Mr. 3radley) As a doctor, how would you 3 explain the difference between chloracne and skin 4 irritation? 5 A. Chloracne is k reaction that takes place in 6 the pores, largely associated with sweat glands, and the 7 material that causes the reaction gets into these pores and 8 causes a reaction around it and you've seen acne, kids1 9 acne. Its very similar, only it's got something that's in 10 it now. 11 G. Is chloracne, medically speaking, a mere 12 severe condition than skin irritation? 13 A. Yes. Because it's more -- Last longer. 14 0* Is there -- Excuse me* Are there different 15 degrees of severity of chloracne? 16 A* Yes. 17 Q. Medically speaking, how would you describe the 18 condition of a severe chloracne? 19 MR. FEATBERSTONE: May I hear that question, 20 please? 21 (Whereupon, the reporter propounded the previous question.) 22 A. A severe case is one in which the reaction 23 between two pores, two nodules, become one, so there is a 24 coalescence of a lesion. 25 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Does a patient with severe - 90 CONCANMON U JAEGER aui\ Hiueu TRANSCRIPTION 1 chloracne run a risk of having scars? Let me ask it this 2 way* Nil! severe chloracne cause scarring? 3 A* Xt can* 4 Q* Do you know whether exposure to chlorinated 5 biphenyl has ever caused severe chloracne to workers 6 working with chlorinated biphenyl? 7 A* It`s so infrequent that I can't answer the 8 question* 9 0* Nell, when you say it's infrequent, does that 10 mean it happens but it happens rarely? 11 NR. PEATHERSTONRJ Object to the form* 12 Q* (By Mr Bradley) What do you mean, it happens 13 infrequently? 14 A* It rarely happens* 15 Q* (By Mr* Bradley) Do you know when the first 16 case was of a worker experiencing severe chloracne from 17 exposure to PCBs? 18 A* No * 19 Q* Did you ever review any documents from 20 Monsanto to its customers indicating that rarely, PCBs 21 could cause, have caused severe chloracne? 22 A. No. Not to my knowledge. 23 Q. You haven't reviewed anything? 24 A* I've reviewed it but it's not in our current 25 literature. - 91 CONCAMNON . JAEGER v.unruiin AlUbU TKAN5CRI PTT ON 1 Q. Was it in any of the former literature that 2 ycu reviewed? 3 TUB WITNESS: Before my time? 4 MR. BRADLEY: That you may have reviewed. 5 A. I don't know. 6 Q* (By Mr. Bradley) Do you know whether the 7 United States Environmental Protection Agency classifies 3 PCBa as a probable human carcinogen? 9 A. X think it says "possible.n It does say 10 possibly# but that's only -- It doesn't talk about the 11 animal data That's only talking about the human data. 12 Q, Do you know when the United States 13 Environmental Protection Agency classified PCSs as a 14 possible human carcinogen? IS A. Yes. 16 Q. When was that? 17 A* After that problem we were talking about# the 18 melanoma. 19 o. So sometime in the late '70s? 20 A. Yes. 21 0 Did you participate as a witness in any 22 Government hearings regarding the Toxic Substances Control 23 Act? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did you ever review material that Monsanto - 92 CGHCANNON * JAEGER ^wnfUiafi aiUKU TRANSCRIPTION 1 sent to its customers prior to your employment at Monsanto a describing the harm to human health that is caused by 3 exposure to pCBs? 4 MR PEATHERSTONE: That is caused? 5 MR BRADLEY: That's what was -- 6 MR FEATHERSTOMEf Object to the form. 7 A* We had published what we gave to our a customerst that - the irritant potential of it We don't 9 think that there's much beyond that except for the question 10 of liver effect 11 Q* (By Mr Bradley) Did you reviewmaterial 12 generated by Monsanto prior to your employment with them 13 that advised their customers that exposure to PCBe caused 14 liver problems? 15 MR FBATHERSTONEs Object to the form 16 A Yes 17 Q, (By Mr, Bradley) And what did you review that 19 said that? 19 A, Some of those safety data sheets say that. 20 Q. Other than the safety data sheets, did you 21 review anything that Monsanto gave to its customer * 22 A. MO. 23 Q. * that indicated exposure to PCBs caused harm 24 to the liver? 25 A Ho. - 93 COHCAmTON & JAEGER ttiv&u THAWSCRIPTI OK 1 Q. All rights Are chlorinated Mapth&lenes trace 2 constituents of a commercial PCD rnistuce manufactured by 3 Monsanto? 4 A. I don't think so. 5 Q. Do you know whether nearly all Americans are 6 reported to have over five hundred parts per billion PC3a 7 in their.adipose tissue? 6 A. I know we have PCBs in our fat, in our blood. 9 Q. Almost all of us? 10 A* The data is not there that will answer that IX but it's very common. 12 Q. Do you know whether PCBs have ever been found 13 in human mother's milk? 14 A. Yes. IS Q. Do you know whether PCBs pass through the 16 mother's placenta to the fetus? 17 A. Mot as well as by milk. 18 Q. Do PCBs biodegrade? 19 A. Yes. 20 0. Are you familiar with the term 21 biomagnification? 22 A. Yes. 23 0. What is it? 24 A. By virtue of passing from one animal to 25 another, the material that we're taking goes with them and - 94 CONCAHNCM & JAEGER u A U A iuuc.u TMAflSCRIPTION 1 so over a life, over several generations, there can be an 2 increase* 3 Q. Do you know whether PCBs biomagnify in the 4 human food chain? 5 A* l*ve never heard, seen it described, 6 Q, Do you know whether PCBs can work 7 synergisfcically with other compounds by impairing the a immune system? 9 A* I've seen it described, 10 Q. Did Monsanto ever inform its customers that 11 PCBs can work synergistically with other compounds by 12 impairing the immune system? 13 A, Mo, Wouldn't know what to tell them* 14 Q, Have PCBs been shown to cause liver cancer in 15 experimental animals? 16 A, In about three out of ten cases# it is said 17 that there are some neoplastic lesions* 18 Q, And were those studies on those experimental 19 animals conducted during a period of time when Monsanto had 20 customers for its PCS products? 21 22 question, HR, PEATHERSTONE* Object to the form of the 23 A. I was ~ Monsanto was out of the business by 24 that time. 25 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) All right. Do you know - 95 - CONCANNON U JAEGER w m - u i A H AiUtftf t r a n s c r i p t i o n 1 whether chronic poisoning may occur with repeated exposures 2 to sufficient concentrations of PCS vapor? 3 THE WITNESS? What's the conclusion? 4 Q. Do you know whether chronic poisoning may 5 occur with repeated exposure to sufficient concentrations 6 of PCS vapors? 7 A* Never heard it described* 8 Q* As a doctor, do you know what chronic 9 poisoning is? 10 A* Yes 11 Q* What is chronic poisoning? 12 A. Chronic poisoning is where the material is 13 given to the organism and instead of giving it to them so 14 to produce acute effects, instead of that, it's given at a 15 lower dose where it doesn't produce enough to make the 15 animal ill except over a period of some time. We usually 17 say over a month, that we see an effect in the animal. i a 0. Did Monsanto ever tell its customers that 19 chronic poisoning may occur with repeated exposures to 20 sufficient concentrations of PC3 vapor? 21 A. We don't think it happens 22 Q, Did Monsanto ever tell its customers that 23 repeated exposures to PCB vapor nay produce internal bodily 24 injury which may be disabling or could be fatal? 25 HR. FEATHERSTONE: l object, again, to the - 9<3 CONCANNO'i h JAEGER wwnruifiR rtiutsu TRANSCRIPTION 1 foundation for the question because this witness testified 2 who had the responsibility for advising customers* 3 THE WITNESSt 1 have difficulty with it* Can 4 you repeat that for me? 5 (Whereuponr the reporter propounded the previous question) 6 0 (By Nr* Bradley) Did Monsanto ever Inform its 7 customers that repeated exposures to PCB vapor may produce 8 Internal bodily injury which may be disabling or could be 9 fatal? 10 A* No * 11 Q. Did Monsanto ever inform its customers that 12 PCBs are highly toxic if taken internally? 13 MR. p e a t h e r s t o h e i Same objections* 14 A Ye s * 15 0. Did Monsanto ever inform its customers that 16 PCBs are not very irritating to the skin but if absorbed 17 through the skin can produce toxic reactions internally? 13 A No * 19 0* Did Monsanto ever inform its customers that 20 periodic physical examinations should be conducted by 21 medical personnel for workers exposed to PCBs? 22 MR* FEATHERSTONEi Object to the lack of 23 foundation for this witness to respond to a question about 24 Monsanto ever informing customers, when he joined the 25 company in 1973. - 97 CONCANNON . JAEGER iax; tUUUiJ TRANSCRIPTION X THE WITNESS: I* sorry. 2 A. No* 3 Q. (By fir* Bradley) Thatdidn't happen, at least 4 while you were employed at Monsanto? 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. And you didn't review any documents indicating 7 that Monsanto had given that information to customers prior 3 to your employment at Monsanto? 9 A. And even whether I believe it's necessary. 10 HR. ?BATHERSTONEt That's not the issue. Dr* n Roush. The issue is whether you know whether that was ever 12 communicated by Monsanto. 13 A. And I said I don't know. 14 HR. FSATHERSTONEs All right. 15 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) Do youagree that a akin 16 disease called chloracne could be an indication of a more 17 serious systemic injury? IS A. No. 19 Q. Do you know whether Monsanto ever informed its 20 customers that a skin disease called chloracne could be an 21 indication of a more serious systemic injury if exposure to 22 PCBs was allowed to continue? 23 MR. FEATHERSTONBj Same objection* Lack of 24 personal knowledge for this witness to respond. 25 A* I don't think 3 0 . - 98 CGMCAHNON JAEGER f\XULdLJ XKANiiCKIPTIOH i Q. (By Hr* Bradley) At least, that didn't happen 2 while you were employed there? 3 A. That's right* 4 Q. You didn't review any documents indicating it 5 had happened before you began your employment? 6 A* That's right. 7 0. Do you know whether lowertemperatures for S destroying Aroclors - and by "lower#* I mean below eight 9 hundred degrees -- 10 THE WITNESS $ Lower than what? 11 HR* BRADLEYi Let me ask this question. 12 0* (By Hr. Bradley} Was there a period of time 13 when Monsanto incinerated Aroclors to destroy them? 14 A* I don't know. 15 q * Was there a time when Monsanto knew that if it 16 incinerated PCBs at low temperatures that that could cause 17 the PCBs to vaporise and furans to form? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. Would you agree that furans are one of the 20 most extremely toxic of any compound since the beginning of 21 chemistry? 22 A. Ho. 23 Q. When you began work forMonsanto# were you 24 made aware that there might be Congressional action taken 25 to restrict the manufacture of PCBs? - 99 CONCAHNON & JAEGER -- ,-^ t-iAtj&u tt/iwiiUKXPTIQN 1 A, Yes. 2 Q* When you began your employment with Monsanto, 3 do you know whether Monsanto employed any of its -- Excuse 4 me, Let me start all over again* When you began your 3 employment at Monsanto, do you know whether Monsanto 6 informed any of its customers that there might be 7 Congressional action that would restrict the manufacture of 8 PCBs? 9 A Yes * 10 0* And while youwere at -- When you first went 11 to Monsanto, do you know whether Monsanto informed any 12 electric utility companies that there was Congressional 13 action which might restrict the manufacture of PC3c? 14 MR, FEATHERSTOtiB t Wait a minute. You started 13 off by saying "might be Congressional action," Now, are 16 you changing it to there was Congressional action? Object 17 to the form of the questioning, 13 HR. BRADLEY: I'll re-ask it, 19 Q. (By Mr.BradleyJ when you began your work at 20 Monsanto, did Monsanto inform electric utility companies 21 that there might be Congressional action that would 22 restrict the manufacture of PCBa? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q, Okay. And which electric utility company -- 25 Let me ask it this way. How did Monsanto inform electric - 100 COMCAHHGH S, JAEGER i  m *\ niUbU usafllSCRIPTION I 1 utility companies, when you began working with Monsanto, 2 that there might.be Congressional action that would 3 restrict the manufacture of PCBa? 4 A don't know* 5 Q. How do you know that Monsanto gave that 6 information to electric utility companies? 7 A. They knew it, I'm not sure how they got it, n Monsanto told them or else the Government told them, one or 9 the other, 10 Q. So all the electric utility companies knew 11 that in 19737 12 A# Yes, 13 MR, FEATHERSTONE: How is he going to answer 14 that, Ralph, all the electric utilities? This is the 15 associate medical director of Monsanto, 16 MR* BRADLEY: All right, 17 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) While you were employed at 18 Monsanto, did you observe any Monsanto employees working in 19 a lab on# or with PC3s? 2 0 A, Ho, 21 Q, Did you ever go to industrial Biotest 22 Laboratories? 23 A, Yes. 24 C. When you were there, who did you meet with? % 25 A. Dr. Calandra. - 101 ~ COHCAMHOH & JAEGER --- - -w xi\rn* Jr1X 1UW 1 Q. Did you meet with anyone else? 2 A* There was another nun, his name was Richter. 3 Q* What was the purpose of your meeting with Dr. 4 Calandra? 5 A. Talk about the PCB study. 6 Q * Did the meeting occur at IBT headquarters? 7 A. Yes. 9 Q. While you were there# did you walk around the 9 1ST headquarters? 10 A. NO. 11 Q. While you were there# did you observe any of 12 the rooms where the animals were kept? 13 A No. 14 Q. Were there animals kept at the IBT 15 headquarters? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Did you ever hear of a room called the Swamp 18 Rooia? 19 A. No. 20 Q> Who# at Monsanto# if anyone# -- Let mo ask 21 this Do you know of anyone at Monsanto who also visited 22 the ibt labs? 23 A. Anyone else from Monsanto that visits had IBT? 24 MR. BRADLEY t Yes. 25 A. NO. - 102 CONCANHON & JAGGEH rkJLi/EiV AHANBCHX FTI OH 1 0* I'm going on show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 1251 2 and ask you what.that document is? What is this Exhibit# 3 Dr. Roush? 4 A. This is a discussion of the findings of the 5 XBT cancer study# and upon completion of this study, we a agreed to take this to Washington and present this data to 7 the various agencies. 8 Q. Andthis is dated January 13# 1976? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Hadyou seen this documentprior to today? 11 A. no. 12 Q. Does the document fairly and accurately report 13 the results of the meeting that*a reference in the 14 document? 15 HR. FEATHERSTGNEt Object to the form of the 16 question. 17 A. Ho. This reflects the HXOSH interpretation of 18 the results. 19 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) Is your interpretation any 20 different than their1s? 21 A. well, the discussion is between the XBT 22 studies# or the Calandra studies and the study that was 23 done someplace -- Didn't it say in here that -- No. Just 24 IBT and Kimbrough. 25 Q. Do you know a gentleman by the name of Paul - 103 COMCANNON & JAEGER i/IAUW i Wright? 2 A. Yes* 3 Q Sow did you first learn of Mr* Wright? 4 A, Be was working for Monsanto when I joined* 5 Q. In 1573? 6 A* Yes. 7 Q* What department was he working in? S A, He was working for Aevinskas, in toxicology. 9 Q* All right. Part of the medical department, 10 toxicology section? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did Mr. Wright then leave Monsanto? 13 HR. FEATHERSTONE: It1a Dr. Wright. 14 A. No. 15 0. (By Mr. Bradley) Dr. Wright never went to 16 work for IBT? 17 A. He had worked for IBT before I joined. 18 Q* All right. When did Mr. - excuse me ~ Dr. 19 Wright work for Monsanto? 20 A. I can't give you the dates. 21 Q Okay. Did you hire Dr. Wright? 22 A. No. 23 o. Who hired Dr. Wright? 24 A. Dr. Levinskas. He worked for him. 25 Q. Okay. When did Dr. Wright work for IBT? 104 CONCAHNON & JAEGER ----------------------------- A W t a v juvm<9V.UJli'l'*UN I A* Prior to my joining Monsanto* *A54 Q* And. after you joined Monsanto Dr* Wright 3 continued as a Monsanto employee up to what date, do you 4 know? 5 MR* FSATHERSTGNSt You have to answer that* 6 A* Yes. Mot by a shake of the head* 7 MR. FEATHERSTOHE: Is the answer no? You B shook your head no, because you don't know the date; is 9 that correct? IO A* That's correct* li Q (By Mr* Bradley) Do you know whether Dr* 12 Wright was a Monsanto employee in 1976? 13 A. Yes, 14 0* Was he a Monsanto employee in 1975? 15 A* I don't know. I S Q* '74? 17 A* I'm not sure of the dates. 13 0 He was a Monsanto employee when you first 19 became a Monsanto employee? 20 A* Yes* 21 0* Was there a point in time when Dr* Wright -- 22 I'm going to start my question all over again* Old Dr, 23 Wright not work for Monsanto for part of the 1970s do you 24 know? 25 A. I don't know. - 105 COWCANNON & JAEGER m.nm* * i''-11UW 1 Q, Do you know whether Off the record. 2 (Whereupon$ a discussion was held between Counsel, off the 3 record*} 4 MR* BRADLEY: I'm now going to show you 5 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1421 and ask you to review that. 6 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Have you had a chance to 7 review it? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right* Is this an August 27th, 1976 10 internal memorandum sent to you by Frederick Johannsen? 11 A. Yes* 12 0* Is this a fair and accurate copy of the 13 interdepartmental memorandum sent to you on that date? 14 A. Yes* 15 0 And is this the sort of document that you 16 maintained in your files at Monsanto? 17 A* Yes. 13 Q. You did that aspart of the regular practice 19 of Monsanto? 20 A. I wanted to know whether there was any cancer 21 related to that* 22 Q. Do you know whether the Information contained 23 in this exhibit was ever given to any Monsanto customers? 24 A. We gave this --We didn't have 25 epidemiologists. This is a toxiologist doing this, and we - 1C6 COMCAHNOH & JAEGER m.WGiU -itaNSCUXPTION 1 gave it to a Dr. Mabube for review and he thought this was 2 not significant*. 3 Q. So is it fair to say, then, that you did never 4 give this information to Monsanto customers? 5 A. No, 6 Q. That*s not fair to say? 7 A, We did not, S Q. Vou did not. All right, 9 A, We then gave a paper on this subject, 10 Q, I'm now going to show you whatfs mark for 11 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 367 and ask you to 12 review that. Have you seen that document before? 13 A, Yo b , Long ago, 14 Q, Is that a report entitled# "Mortalities of PCB IS workers at the Monsanto plant in Sauget, Illinois" by 16 Judith A. Sack, 2-a-c-k, and David C, Kusch, M-u~s-c-h, 17 dated December 14, 1979? 18 A, Yes, 19 Q, is this a fair and accurate report proposed by 20 them? 21 A. Yes. 22 0, Is this the sort of document that you 23 maintained in your files at Monsanto? 24 A. Yea* 25 Q- Did you do that as part of your business work - 107 CONCANMCN & JAEGER 1ArtiHC)In* 4^ AifXAUN 1 at Monsanto? 2 A. Yes* 3 0. I1st now going to show you what's marked for 4 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 350 and ask you to 5 tell me what that document is* Actually, I'm going to ask 6 you first to review it* Have you had a chance to review 7 it? 8 A* Almost* Yes* 9 Q- Is this a April 13th# 1975 letter to you from 10 J.C. Calandra# President along with a review of a PCQ 11 meeting? 12 A* Yes This is the result of a meeting# yes* 13 Q* All right. Is this a document that you've 14 seen before? 15 A* Yes* 16 0. And is this a fair and accurate copy of the 17 document? 18 A* Yes* 19 Q* And is this the sort of document that you 20 maintained in your files at Monsanto as part of your 21 regularly conducted business? 22 A. If it was appropriate# it would be. 23 Q. Do you see the fir3 t full paragraph there, 24 were it says# "Dear George# I fully appreciate that the 25 meeting on PCBs today was not completly satisfactory and - 108 COMCANHGN JAEGER -------- . -W > * 4v O J i * . many nagging questions remain* 2 A* Yes. 3 G. Would you agree that the meeting referenced 4 was not completely satisfactory? A. Yea. 6 Q. Would you agree that many nagging questions 7 remained after that meeting? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q* What was there about the meeting that was not 10 completely satisfactory? 11 A. The interpretation of whether these nodules 12 were hyperplastic nodules or whether they are 13 well~dierentiated carcinomas, or what interpretation 14 should bo put on these* 15 Q Was the question whether or not they were 16 malignant. cancerous? 17 A* Yes 18 Q* All right* And was the nagging questions that 19 remained whether or not those lesions were malignant 20 cancers? 21 A. No. The question is how we*re going to 22 respond to SPA on We were going to take this to 23 Washington and wanted to have it clear what it was that we 24 were taking to them. 25 Q. All right. I'm now going to show you - 109 - CONCAHNOH JAEGER --- r. p> u v i t r u v a <l a v u 1 Plaintiff's Exhibit 424 and ask you to review that n document. Have you had a chance to review that? 3 A. I think co. At least# go over it lightly. 4 Q. Is that a September 9# 1969 interdepartment 5 memo to E. Wheeler from W.R. Richard? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And those are both Monsanto employees? 6 A. Yes* 9 0. And have you seen this document before? 10 A. Mo. 11 Q. Would you turn to page four# towards the 12 bottom on the left-hand side. Bo you see the name 13 R-O-U-3-h down there? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q Do you know what that is# if that's referring 16 to you? 17 A. If it's 196D, it's not referring to me. 18 MB. PEATHERSTONE: Let's go off the record for 19 a second. 20 (Whereupon# a discussion was held between Counsel# off the 21 record*) 22 0* (By Mr. Bradley) Is this the sort of document 23 that Monsanto would maintain in its files as part of its 24 regularly conducted business activities? 25 MR. FEATHSRSTONE: Object to the form. - 110 COSCAMNON fi JAEGER  4 t' A J. WH 1 A* The question is what they do with things like 2 this, is the important thing. This is an assessment. 3 MR. FEATHERSTONEt The question is whether its 4 kept in the files. 5 MR. BRAD&EY 2 Yes. 6 0. (By Mr. Bradley) They keep it in the files? 7 A. X don't know. 8 Q. Is this the sort of document that you would 9 aspect them to keep in the files though? 10 A* X don't know. 11 0. Did Monsanto have a policy for maintaining 12 records relating to PCBs during September of 1969 do you 13 know? 14 A. I don't know. 15 0* All right. Dr. Roush I ~~ Apparently there 16 is another Roush that worked at Monsanto whose name was Don 17 Roush* Had you ever Do you know of a Don Roush who 18 worked at Monsanto? 19 A. I did not. 20 Q* I'm now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 21 1154 and I'm interested in knowing whether you've ever 22 reviewed that before? 23 A. No, l haven't seen it. 24 Q. All right. I'm now going so show you 25 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1425 and ask you to review that. Have - Ill - COHCANHON & JAEGER U v t) * < * A UU 1 you had a chance to review that? 2 A. Yes, sir* 3 Q Is that an August 29th* 1975 interdepartmental 4 from David Wood to you - or excuse me, to W.B. Papageorge? 5 A. Yes. 6 C Are you copied over on the right-hand, as 7 indicated by the B A * Yes 9 Q. - information on the right-hand side? is this 10 a document you've seen before? 11 A I must have seen It, my name4s on there, but 1 12 don't recall it. 13 Q. All right. I'm going to show you Plaintiff's 14 Exhibit 428 and ask you to review that. Doctor, I want to 15 know whether you've seen that document before? 16 THE WITNESS: This was in 1969. 17 ME. BRADLEYs Yes, X know that. 18 A. Yes. But I don't recall it. 19 HR. BRADLEY: All right. 20 A. I haven't read it either* 21 HR. BRADLEY: Take your time, then, to 22 determine, just to determine whether you've seen the 23 document before. 24 A. No. 25 Q. I'm now going to 3how you Plaintiff's Exhibit - 112 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 517 and ask you to review it for the purpose of telling me 2 whether you've ever seen the document before? 3 A. I don't recall it 4 Q. l rm now going to show you Exhibit 422 and ask 5 you if you have ever seen that document before? 6 MR* PEATHERSTONEi He wants you to look at it 7 to say whether you have seen it before. 3 A. No, I haven't seen this. This is 1959? 9 HR. BRADLEY: Hard to read it, but it's 1969 10 THE WITNESS '69? 11 HR. BRADLEY: Yes. Bruce# X need to put 422 12 here# and I'll make a note to get you a copy# though you 13 already have it# but I'll make you a copy anyhow. 14 HR. FEATHERSTONEj Did you use 422 in some 15 other deposition? 16 HR. BRADLEY: No. But I used 422 in our 17 request to admit the authenticity* All of these exhibits, IS up through 970# are exhibits that we provided to you. 19 Q. (By Hr. Bradley) I'm now going to show you 20 Plaintiff's Exhibit 709 and ask you to review it for the 21 purpose of indicating whether you've seen the document 22 before. Have you had a chance to review that? 23 A. Yes. 24 0* Have you seen that document before? 25 A. No. - 113 CONCANNON h JAEGER 1 Q. All right. I'm now going to show you Exhibits 2 359 and 340 together, and I'd ask you to review them 3 together for the purpose of telling me whether you have 4 seen these documents before* Have you seen that document 5 before? 6 A* No* 7 Q. Would you turn? on Plaintiff's Exhibit 359# to 8 page five# under -- Let me give you a context* If you 9 look back at page four# you'll see the word mtoxicity" 10 underlined at the bottom of the page# and at the top of XI page five# it has "human" underlined* 12 A. All right* What's the question? 13 Q* My question is# do you agree# "The known toxic 14 effects of PCBs in humans include an acne-like skin 15 eruptions (chloracne)# pigmentation of the skin and nails, 16 excessive eye discharge# swelling of eyelids and 17 distinctive hair follicles. 18 A. Yes* The only question I have there was that 19 acne-like lesion* Whose definition are we going to use? 20 Q. Do you agree# for a number of years, chloracne 21 of the face and neck has been reported among workers 22 exposed to chlorinated hydrocarbons? 23 A. Yes* 24 Q. Do you agree that workers exposed to PCBs in 25 the process of insulating cables in the production of - 114 coneAm:on & j a e g e r 1 condensers and the manufacture of chlorobiphenyls have I 2 reported these skin lesions along with systemic effects 3 such as digestive disturbances, edema of the face and 4 hands, burning of the eyes and impotence and hematuria? 5 A. Yes. 6 0. tfhat is hematuria? 7 A. Blood in the urine. Dria isurine,and hema 8 is blood. 9 G. Did Monsanto inform itscustomersthat the 10 known toxic effects of PC5s in humans include an acne-like 11 skin eruption (chloracne), pigmentation of the skin and 12 nails, excessive eye discharge, swelling of eyelids and 13 distinctive hair follicles? 14 MB. FEATHBRSTONE* Same objection previously 15 stated about the absence of personal knowledge for this 18 witness to answer the question. 17 A. This is from Japan, that you're really citing, 18 Yusho, Y-u-s-h-a, and they got it because they were eating 19 the PCBs in the cooking oil. It hasn't been seen since. 20 Q. (By Mr. Bradley) Did Monsanto tell its 21 customers that for a number of years, chloracnia of the 22 face and neck has been reported among workers exposed to 23 chlorinated hydrocarbons? 24 A. They were told about the, about lesions on 25 their face, about the skin problems. - 115 CONCANNON & JAEGER r _________________________ i 1 Q. But not chloracne? Or yes# they were told of 2 chloracne? 3 A. X don't think they were, 4 Q. All right. Were Monsanto customers told that 5 workers exposed to PCBs in the process of manufacture of 6 chlorobiphenyls have reported skin lesions along with 7 systemic effects such as digestive disturbances, edema of 6 the face and hands, burning of the eyes, impotence and 9 hematuria? 10 HR, FEATHEIiSTOHE: Same objection. Absence of n personal knowledge of this witness about what Monsanto told 12 its customers. 13 A. I don't believe these things. X don't believe 14 this. 15 Q, (By Mr. Bradley) is the answer, then, that 16 you don't - Monsanto, as far as know, didn't report that to 17 its customers? 18 A. T don't know whetherit did or not. 19 Q, Mow# on page four,under the section that says 20 - or let me do it this way. Under the second full 21 paragraph under "Human," at the end of the last sentence, 22 it has the references for 16 and 22 Do you see that 23 there? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. It's on page five, - 116 COMCANNON & JAEGER W W |l* V A 1 A. Yes. 2 G* Now, there's a reference section* is there 3 not, at the end or this document? 4 A Yes. 5 Q. And 16 and 22 refer to -- well, 16 refers to 6 an article by Or. Kimbrough* dated 1974 and 22 refers to an 7 article by Dr* Schwarts in 1936* is that correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 0. Turn now to page sis. 10 A * Yes 11 Q. Under the section that begins "Animal.11 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And goes through page eight? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. While you were at Monsanto do you know 16 whether Monsanto ever told its customers about the animal 17 toxicity effects that are referred to on pages six* seven 18 and eight of this exhibit? 18 A. I don't know. 20 HR. FBATHERSTONB: Let's go off the record. 21 (Whereupon, a dicussion was held between Counsel* off the 22 record.) 23 * * * * * * * 24 * * * * * * 25 * * * * * - 117 CONCANHOW & JAEGER 1 2 3 GEORGE ROUSHf JR 4 Subscribed and sworn to before me this ______ day 5 O f ______________________ A.D* f 19________ . 6 7 Notary Public 8 Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri. 9 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES THE _____ DAY OP 10 .... r... A.D* , 19 --. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 113 - COHCANNON & JAEGER 1 STATE OF MISSOURI ) ) S3 2 COUNTV OF ST. LOUIS ) 3 I, John T. Concannon# a Notary Public within and tor 4 the State of Missouri# duly commissioned# qualified and S authorized to administer oaths and to take and certify to 6 depositions# do hereby certify that pursuant to Notice in 7 the civil cause now pending and undetermined in the 8 District Court of the United States# within and for the 9 District of Nevada# entitled NEVADA POWER COMPANY 10 Plaintiff# -vs- MONSANTO COMPANY# et al.# Defendants# to be II used in the trial of said cause in said Court# I was 12 attended at the lav offices of Messrs. Busch a Eppenberger# 13 100 M. Broadway# Suite 1306# in the City of St. Louis# 14 State of Missouri# by Ralph A* Bradley# attorney for the 15 Plaintiff; by Bruce A. Featherstone# attorney for the 16 Defendant# Monsanto Company; by Laurie Basch# attornty for 17 the Defendant# Westinghouse; and by GEORGE ROUSH witness# 18 In said office on March 17# 1993. 19 The said witness# GEORGE ROUSH# being of sound mind 20 and being by me first carefully examined and duly cautioned 21 and sworn to testify the truth# the whole truth and nothing 22 but the truth in the case aforesaid# thereupon testified as 23 is shown in the foregoing transcript# said testimony being 24 by me reported in shorthand and caused to be transcribed 25 into typewriting# and that the foregoing pages correctly - 119 CONCANNON & JAEGER 1 set out the testimony of the aforementioned witness, GEORGE 2 ROUSH, together with the questiona propounded by counsel 3 and the remarks and objections of counsel thereto, and is 4 in ail respects a full, true and complete transcript of the S questions propounded to and the answers given by said 6 witness; and that said testimony, so transcribed, was 7 subscribed to by the witness on the _____ day of 8 ___________________ , A. D., 1993. 9 I FURTHER CERTIFY that Z am not of counsel nor 10 attorney for any of the parties to said suit, nor related, 11 nor interested in any of the parties or their attorneys* 12 WITNESS m HAND and Notarial Seal, given this _____ 13 day of _. . A. D., 1993, at St. Louis, Missouri. 14 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES SEPTEMBER 12, 1994 15 16 17 JOHN T. COHCANNON, 18 Notary Public, within and for the State of Missouri 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 120 - CONCANHON & JAEGER 1 2 April 28, 1993 3 4 5 Bruce A. Featherstone, Esq. Kirkland & Bills 6 1999 Broadway - Ste. 4000 Denver, Colorado 60202 7 8 Ret Nevada Power Company -v- Monsanto Company, et al. 9 Dear Nr. Featheratones , 10 This letter, incorporated as the last page of Mr. n Roush4s deposition, taken on March 17, 1993, will serve as notice to you that hie testimony is now ready for reading 12 and signing of same* You will recall you indicated a preference for him reading his deposition, rather than . 13 waiving signature. 14 Enclosed please find the original signature page of Mr. Roush*8 deposition# along with an eratta sheet. Please 13 have Mr. Roush read and sign his deposition and return .the original signature page to me 1 will then return the 16 signature page to the original transcript, and notify Mr. Bradley of any corrections the witness may have made. 17 Thank you for your cooperation in this regard. 18 Sincerely, 19 20 JOHN T. CONCANNON 21 Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 JTCsrad 25 Concannon 6 Jaeger General Court Reporters 705 Olive Street - ste. 604 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 121 CONCANNON t JAEGER