Document y6MzvK1avgx2rXze8QEymaxE

FILE NAME: Westinghouse (WH) DATE: 2003 May 7 DOC#: WH144 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Deposition of Mark Perriello MARK PERRIELLO 1 .2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 CAirSE NO. 02-8988 PETER GUSTAFSON and. CHARLAINE GUSTAFSON,' ' Plaintiffs, V. AMETEK, INC., et a l ., Defendants, } IN THE 192ND ) ) ) ) ) JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT ) ) ) ) DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS ************************ *************************** THE VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OP MARK PERRIELLO MAY 7, 2003 ********************'***.*************************** + THE VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OF MARK PERRIELLO, produced as a witness at the instance of the Plaintiffs and duly sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause on the 7th day of May, 2003, from 1:17 p.m. to 4:50 p.m., before JAMIE PRINCE, CSR in and for the State of Texas, at the offices of GODWIN GRUBER, 1201 Elm Street, Suite 1800, Dallas, Dallas County, Texas, pursuant to the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure and the provisions stated on the record or attached hereto. Henjum Goucher Reporting Services, L. P. 1-888-656-3376 MARKPERRIELLO ' 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: . 3 MS. LYNN BRADSHAW MR.BUCMANCHIN 4 KAESKJELAW FIRM 301 GASTON AVENUE 5 SUITE 735 . DALLAS, TEXAS 75214 6 214.621.1221 l TOR THE DEFENDANT WESTINGtiOUSE ELECTRIC CORPORATION; 8 MR. MICHAEL HENDRYX STRONG PIPKIN BISSELL & LEDYARD, LLP 9 II1IBAGBY SUITE 2300 10 HOUSTON. TEXAS 77002 713.651.1900 . 11 MR. ROBERTP. MORGAN . 12 ECKERTSEAMANS CHERIN& MELLOTT. LLC USX TOWER 13 600 GRANTSTREET, 441H FLOOR PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA 15219 14 412566.6176 15 FOR THEDEFENDANTS. KELLY-MOORBPAINTCOMPANY, INC., and GENERALELECTRIC: 16 * MS. KAY ANDREWS ' 17 BROWN McCARKOLL, LLP 111CONGRESS AVENUE 16 SUITE 1400 . AUSTIN, TEXAS 7S7014043 19 512.479.9772 2 0 FOR THE DEFENDANTS CERTAIN!EED, RILEY STOKER, and UNION CARBIDE: 21 - 22 MS. BEVERLY M. BOND DcHAY & ELLISTON, LLP 3500 BANK OF AMERICA PLAZA 23 901 MAIN STREET . DALLAS, TEXAS 75202 2 4 214.210.2400 . IN DEX 2 PAGE Appearances 2 4 Index 4 5 WETNESS - MARK. PERKIELLO 6 Examination by Ms. Bradshaw 5 7 Witness Signature Page/Corrections 116 Reporter's Certificate 117 10 11 EXHIBITS 12 NUMBER DESCRIPTION MARKED 13 1 Notice 6 14 2 Medical Engineering Control of Industrial Health Hazards by Lyle Hazlett 58 3 Article from The Westinghouse News * 80 4 Documents regarding discarding of documents by Jeffrey Bair and C.W. Biggcrstaff 99 5 3/8/88 Letter to S.R. Pitts from IB JeffreyBair 105 6 1/29/88 Letter to J.W. Fisch from . 1 9 . C.W. Biggerstaff 106 20 21 22 * 24 25 ' 3 l FOR THE DEFENDANTA W. CHESTERTON: 2 MR. JESSE M. BUTLER SEGAL McCAMBRUXjE SINGER & MAHONEY, LTD. 3 ONE HUNDRED CONGRESS AVENUE SUITE 700 4 AUSTIN, TEXAS 78701 512.476.7834 PROCEEDINGS 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record at 3 1:17p.m. 4 MR. HENDRYX: I'm Mike Hendiyx. I 5 represent Viacom/Westinghouse, and we're producing FOR THE DEFENDANTS QUIGLEY and PFIZER 6 Mr. Pemello today subject to an agreement and 6 MR. PAULT. GREGORY 7 B E RN E MAYNARD & PARSONS, LLP 7 notice, and we are --by agreement He has to make 8 the last flight out, which means that he has to 1300POST OAK BOULEVARD * 8 25TH FLOOR HOUSTON, TEXAS 77056 9 leave at 5 o'clock, and so we're ready to work just 10 hard as - 9 713.623.0887 i o FOR THE DEFENDANTS AMETEK, PLYMOUTH PRODUCTS, and HERCULES, INC.: * 11 MR. SCOTT NELSON 12 CONNELLY BAKER WOTRJNG & JACKSON, LLP MS. BRADSHAW; Leave here? 12 MR. HENDRYX: Yes. I think that's 13 [ht. Dallas people, tell me, but with security 14 d so on, we've been told that i f he leaves here . 700 LOUISIANA 13 SUITE 1850 HOUSTON, TEXAS 77002 5 o'clock, he can make it 16 MS. BRADSHAW: That's it? 14 713.980.1717 1 5 ALSO PRESENT: ' 16 MR. JOHN CHANDLER, 18 MR. HENDRYX: That's it. * MS. BRADSHAW: All right Very THE VIDEOGRAPHER. 17 ' 18 19 20 21 . 22 23 24 13:17:44 19 od. 20 MARK PERRJELLO, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: 22 EXAMINATION 2 3 Y MS. BRADSHAW: 24 Q. Sir, will you state your name for the 25 25 Henjum Goucher Reporting Services, L. P. 1-888-656-3376 2 (Pages 2 to 5) MARK PERRIELLO * 66 68 l departments on - like medical department. 1 not perceived to be a hazard. 2 Basically, at that particular time - we're talking 2 MS. BRADSHAW: Objection, 3 about this article here, o f course - one _ ' 3 nonresponsive. , 4 industrial hygiene reported to the medical 4 Q. (B y Ms. Bradshaw) Did Westinghouse ever 5 department. 6 Q, Anything else? 5 send out any notice to its customers to remove 6 asbestos from its turbines? 7 A. Not that 1 can remember. 7 A. I'm not aware o f any. 8 Q. Okay. Do you agree with this statement: 9 Any person working with a hazardous material has a 1 0 right to know about die associated hazards and the 1 1 necessary precautions for safe usage? 12 Did you want me to read it again? .13 A. Please. 14 Q. Do you agree with this statement: Any 1 5 person woridng with a hazkdous material has a 1 6 right to know about the associated hazards and the 1 7 necessary precaution for safe usage? 18 A. Yes, I agree. 19 Q. When was the first time that Westinghouse 2 0 designed turbines to eliminate the hazard o f 2 1 asbestos? . 2 2 A. I believe it was in the--they started 2 3 making them asbestos-free. Not all turbines 2 4 contained asbestos. Some did and some didn't 2 S Depended on the customers, what they wanted. But 8 Q. Did Westinghouse ever issue any warnings 9 to its customers concerning the hazards o f 1 0 asbestos? il A. There was process - specification ' 1 2 process data h a d - I 'm thinking in the late '40s 13 there was a process that talked about hazards o f 1 4 asbestos, or gave a warning to it. There was 1 5 material cards that would be associated with the 1 6 manufacturing o f turbines, for example, as we 1 7 talked about that, that would have the ingredients, 1 8 and there could be a caution clause on it. Whether 1 9 that was passed on to the customer or not, I'm not 2 0 sure. 21 MS. BRADSHAW: Objection, 2 2 nonresponsive. 23 Q. (By Ms. Bradshaw) As you sit here today, 2 4 do you know i f any warnings were ever provided by 2 5 Westinghouse to its customers concerning the . 67 . 69 1 completely turbines, went out the door was in the 1 asbestos hazard? 2 early to mid-'70s, I believe, that were 3 asbestos-free. 2 A. No. I don't believe that there was any 3 provided. 4 Q. And the turbines that were still in _ 5 service were not asbestos-tree; is that c o n e d ? 6 A. Well, i f t h e y - r m not sure o f th at ? If the turbines --during a period o f time during 8 that course o f time, if they were asbestos at the 4 Q. Did W estinghouse--1 apologize if I'm . 5 recovering a little bit o fth e same territory. 6 Since the 1930s, has Westinghouse ever 7 done any o f their ow n testing to determine the ' 8 potential hazards o f asbestos? . s beginning, they could still be there, or they might i o have been removed during the process o f servicing 1 1 it. It's too difficult for me io -- 9 A. When you're talking about testing, you're l o talking about medical testing or research? il Q. Correct 12 Q. You don't know the answer to t o 12 A. No. 1 3 question? 14 A. No, I don't know. 15 Q. This is ju ry in g ahead ofw hat I want to 13 Q. Did Westinghouse ever pay for any medical 1 4 research or testing concerning the hazards o f 15 asbestos? 1 6 talk about, b u t did Westinghouse ever issue any 16 A. Not that I'm aware o f no. 1 7 directives to its turbine customers to remove 17 Q. Did Westinghouse ever require its workers IB asbestos from the turbines that were in place? 19 A. I believe we were dealing with -- * 1 8 to use respirators while working with asbestos? 19 A. I believe it would --are you saying - 2 o Westinghouse dealt with large corporations which 2 0 respirators during what process? When they're 2 1 had knowledgeable people. Did they direct them to 2 1 manufacturing? 2 2 remove it? Pretty much the utilities and the * . 22 Q. Any process. Manufacture, maintenance. 2 3 refineries and other industrial customers had the 2 4 same knowledge. But there was n o - th e r e was 2 5 nothing sent out that says remove it because it was 23 A. I believe there was times that they*would 2 4 requite them based on the assessment as an 2 5 industrial hygienist would make. Ifitrequired 18 (Pages 66 to 69) Henjum Goucher Reporting Services, L. P. 1-888-656-3376 MARK PERRIELLO 70 72 . 1 respirators to be worn because the level o f 2 whatever material, then it would be ptescribed the 3 type o f respirator that would be necessary to be 4 used. 5 Now, did they use it? Is that your 6 question? Did they ever use it? 7 Q. I guess my question is, was there ever a 8 program, policy by Westinghouse that required . 9 workers to wear respirators working around 10 asbestos? 11 A. Not a blanket requirement. * 12 Q. I'm curious. I f Westinghouse knew since 1 3 the 1930s that there was potential health hazards 1 4 associated with asbestos and if they new from die . 1 5 1940s that it was a carcinogenic and they knew from 1 6 their own medical director that whenever thereis 1 7 possibility for a health hazard - when there is a 1 8 health hazard for workers that you should try to 1 9 eliminate the hazard, why did Westinghouse wait . 2 0 until tiie late 1970s before they removed asbestos 2 1 from their turbines? 22 MR. MORGAN: Objection. Assumes 2 3 facts not in evidence. Object to the form. 24 A. Let me break it up. They knew in the 2 5 1930s, after Dreessen, that textile workers could 1 keep it below 5 million particles that there was 2 not a hazard to developing asbestosis. I don't 3 believe it was until '60 --I don't believe until 4 '65 that SelikofF said that if you have asbestosis 5 and you're a cigarette smoker that you can develop lung cancer, so it wouldn't be in the '40s. 7 Is there more to the - it was a long 8 question. I don't know if I answered-- 9 MS. BRADSHAW: Objection, 1 0 nonresponsive. 11 Q. (B y Ms. Bradshaw) Let's --one second. 12 A. When you get a chance, can I take a 1 3 five-minute break? 14 Q. Yes. Let me finish this round, and then 1 5 I'll be happy to give you a break. 16 ' Do you know who Wayne Biggerstaff is? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you - would you agree with Wayne 1 9 Biggerstaffhas as much knowledge or more about . 2 0 you, generally, about what Westinghouse knew? 21 A. Wayne was - Wayne Biggerstaff was with 2 2 Westinghouse a long time. He was a health * 2 3 physicist. I believe that's what his master's 2 4 degree was. 1 worked for Wayne. 25 Q. So your answer would be yes? 71 73 1 have a potential -- 1 A. That he knew more? 2 MS. BRADSHAW: Let me interrupt you 3 for one second. 4 Are*you admitted here in Texas? 5 MR. HENDRYX: 1T1 make the 6 objection. Sorry about that 7 MS. BRADSHAW: Only one attorney. 8 Go ahead. . 2 Q. As much as you did about what 3 Westinghouse knew or has known about the hazards o f 4 asbestos. 5 A You know, that's a judgment call. You 6 know, did he know - yes, I think he did. 7 Q. And so if Mr. Biggerstaff said in 1992 in 8 sworn testimony that Westinghouse knew that 9 MR, HENDRYX: I object to the form 10 o f the question. ' * 11 A. I f I remember the question, 111 try 12 again. . 13 In the 1930s, the Dreessen report 1 4 would - indicated that keeping it below 5 million 9 asbestos had been associated with cancer sometime 10 in tile early '40s, would you dispute that? 11 A. Yes. 12 M R HENDRYX: Object to form. 13 Q. (By Ms. Bradshaw) You would dispute 1 4 that? ' 1 5 particles per cubic foot, no asbestosis would 15 A. Yes, I would. . ,,1 6 limit - no cases o f asbestos would occur. That 1 7 was dealing with the textile workers, and that was 1 8 not the business we were in. We were in the end 1 9 product o f the electrical components, making 2 0 electrical equipment . 16 MS. BRADSHAW: Let's go back to the 1 7 question and reread the question. 18 (Requested material was read back.) ' 19 MR. HENDRYX: Object to the form of . 2 0 die question. 21 Then you said something in the '40s, if 2 2 Tm correct, and you talked about cancer. I'm not 21 Q. (By Ms. Bradshaw) The only amendment I 2 2 have to that question is you can --we can leave 2 3 sure I agree that we - 1 don't - I'm not sure if 2 3 out die 1940s part of it. 2 4 I rem em b er -- D rinker, in th e '405, talk ed abOUt 24 M R HENDRYX: Object to the form of 2 5 insulator worker - insulation workers, that if you 2 5 the question. , 19 (Pages 70 to 73) Henjum Goucher Reporting Services, L. P. 1-888-656-3376 MARKPERRIELLO 74 76 1 A. 1 diink Westinghouse grew the same as tii 2 other corporations as far as its knowledge o f 3 asbestos, They didn't have anything more. They 4 have no secret or -- no information that was ` 5 indicated they had more knowledge than any other S manufacturer. 7 They always did strive - die medical 8 director talked about striving. They always would 9 do assessments and make recommendations to reduce 10 die exposure below - a n d they didn't use the tenn . 1 1 whatever die TLV was at at thatpoint They would 12 continue to make recommendations of how they could 1 3 reduce it even further. So (ley did follow the 1 4 medical director's advice or recommendation from 15 1938. 16 MS. BRADSHAW; Objection, 1 7 nonresponsive. 18 Q. (By Ms. Bradshaw) Westinghouse 1 9 eliminated asbestos in the late 7 0 s because why? 20 A. Well, as reducing it, the expos- -- 2 1 reducing the level of asbestos fibers as OSHA's o* 2 2 die government - well, OSHA reduced their 2 3 permissible exposure limit, and the greater 24 knowledge that was being learned from various . 2 5 studies that we talked about, the Selikoff and so l THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 2 record at 3:30 p.m. . 3 Q. (By Ms. Bradshaw) Sir, I think you said 4 that in the late 7 0 s you realized that the health 5 hazard was more than we had originally thought. Is 6 that correct? 7 . A. During the 7 0 s , when OSHA changed their ' 8 permissible exposure limits, the world knew that 9 there was more things that needed to be done to . 10 reduce the exposures. 11 Q. And other than OSHA, is there anything 1 2 else that Westinghouse was - found out? Other 1 3 than what OSHA said, were there any other articles 1 4 or information or... 15 A. No. I believe whatever was in the 1 6 general public domain that was available to 1 7 companies and unions and anyone else, I mean, that 1 8 was the only source. There was no - 19 Q. It was all those sources as well? 20 A. Well, I mean, if it was appropriate. But 2 1 let me just say, we would look at OSHA as the 2 2 setting the -- the government setting the stage. 23 Q. When was the first time that Westinghouse 2 4 used the wetting process on asbestos? 25 A. I mean, the wetting process is a method 75 77 ` 1 on, it became m p rrtant for Westinghouse to seek 2 those substitutes that they needed to reduce the 1 to hold down dust for any type o f - lik e , if I can 2 use the word how -- like a saw or drilling 3 exposure because it became impractical. 3 operation, then you could use wetting to keep down 4 MS. BRADSHAW: Objection, 5 nonresponsive. * 4 the d u st I'm not sure exactly when that came into 5 practice, but 1 think a long time. 6 Q. (By Ms. Bradshaw) Did they eliminate it 7 because the government required them to? 6 Q. Do you know, as you sit here today, when 7 was the first time that Westinghouse had any 8 A. They --the government didn't - Well, 9 the government did through various EPA and other 10 things, made some more restrictions, but it was to 8 program or policy to use a wetting process on 9 asbestos-containing products that might produce 10 dust? 1 1 the point o f where decisions were made that we 1 2 could not do - because the permissible exposure 11 A. I don't know exact time, if that's what 12 you're asking, when - 1 3 limit was being reduced during the 7 0 s that there 13 Q. Do you know decades? 1 4 was not a practical way - there's not a practical 1 5 way to keep going, and it didn't make sense at that 14 A. I don't think it was --from my 1 5 understanding o f what the wetting process would be 1 6 particular time when new evidence or new 1 6 is the material that you're using to wet down has 1 7 information that occurred in the late '60s and 1 8 early 7 0 s that the health hazard was more than 1 7 to be able to take a mist o r a wet without 1 8 destroying the material itself. This is not -- 1 9 what we believed in the p ast 1 9 what we're talking about is asbestos-containing or 20 MS. BRADSHAW: Objection, * _ 2 0 materials that contain asbestos, so there's other . 21 nonresponsive. 2 1 mixture o f chemicals or materials that are in there 22 We've got to take a break now. 22 that if.you wet it, it might dissolve on you. So 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: O ff the record at 2 3 it depends on when it was used. 2 4 3:23. 24 It's not a - it would not be a genera] 25 (Recess.) | 2 5 practice that tomorrow you're going to start doing ' 20 (Pages 74 to 77) Henjum Goucher Reporting Services, L. P. 1-8S8-656-3376 MARKPERRIELLO ' 78 1 all wetting, [ f it was practical, i f that was the 2 best means, then that's what would be used 3 MS. BRADSHAW: Objection, 4 nonresponsive. 5 Q. (By Ms. Bradshaw) Is it true that 6 Westinghouse never had a requirement or policy in 7 place that required wetting o f asbestos-containing a products that might create dust? 9 A, That was one o f the methods that was 1 0 available. There was no - from an industrial 1 1 hygiene standpoint Ventilation is another Yia. . 1 2 I f you can wet it down, great There's other 13 things lhat you can do, but it's not a blanket 1 4 policy. ' ' 15 Q. Not a blanket policy. All right 16 Did Westinghouse manufacture 1 7 asbestos-containing products? ' 18 A. Westinghouse made electrical components 1 9 that had - that part o f the components could be 2 0 asbestos-containing. I m e a n - 21 Q. So is your answer yes? 22 A. Well, when I heard your question, I sort 2 3 of get, like, we put the asbestos in there, raw 2 4 material in. We never used the raw asbestos and 2 5 put it in. We would use a product that would 80 1 A. They did put together for their own 2 units. For their turbines, they would, I believe, 3 put the turbine blankets together to put onto the 4 turbine, yes. 5 (EXHIBIT NO. 3 MARKED.) 6 Q. (B y Ms. Bradshaw) Sir, I'm going to hand 7 you what the court reportefs marked as Exhibit 8 No. 3 and ask you if you've seen this document 9 before. 10 A I'm going to look atit, read through it, 1 1 I guess. 12 Okay. Sony it to o k - 13 Q. Ifs very small, I know. 14 A. The print is so small, you have to take 1 5 your glasses off 16 Q. Have you seen this document before today? 17 A I'm not sure I've seen this exact * 1 8 document. I think IVc seen this information, yes. 19 Q. And this is something that was published . 2 0 in The Westinghouse News in 1950; is that correct? 21 A. Well, I can't tell whether that says '50 22 o r '60. 23 Q. Good point 24 A. Thafs what I was looking for, to see - 25 Q. I think it's '50. 79 1 contain asbestos and put it into the product, so is 2 that what you mean? 3 Q. Never in the course o f this manufacturing 4 process did Westinghouse use pure asbestos as it 5 was mined. Is that what you're saying? 6 A. For turbines. Is that what yo u 're- 7 Q. For any product. . 8 A. It's hard for me to say that they never. 9 It goes back a hundred years, like you said. 10 Whether they were pul into a cement dr something to ' 1 1 use... 12 Q. So your answer is Westinghouse may have 13 used pure asbestos in some form in some product it '1 4 manufactured? 15 A. 1 don't know. . 1G Q. You do not know. All right 17 Did Westinghouse manufacture products i s that contained asbestos in any form? . 19 A. I f - l i k e a turbine? . 20 Q. Correct 21 A. Some turbines did contain asbestos. 22 Q. And Micarta board? 23 A. Some Micarta contained. 24 Q. Did Westinghouse actually manufacture 2 5 tinbine blankets? 81 1 What does this article talk about? 2 A. Making insulation blankets to conserve 3 heat in (he turbine. 4 Q. All right. And you had just told me that 5 Westinghouse did manufocture turbine blankets for 6 its turbines; is that correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And these were made with asbestos; is 9 that correct? 10 A. Yeah. They used asbestos. 11 Q. And this article talks about the fact 1 2 that they actually had turbine tailors who designed 13 and fitted these blankets to the - or topcoats to ' 14 the turbines; is that correct? 15 A. Yes. .16 Q. Is it your understanding that 1 7 Westinghouse specified asbestos-containing 18 insulation for its turbines? 19 A. No. No. I don't --a lot o f the 2 0 turbines, or mo st o f the turbines, were specified 2 1 by the customer. 22 Q. Okay. What do you base that on? 23 A. Well, IVe seen information that 2 4 indicated --in fact, I think it may have been in 2 5 the interrogatories that said lhat the customer > 21 (Pages 78 to 81) Henjum Goucher Reporting Services, L. P. 1-888-656-3376