Document xDg7n9qd9NyRd3EJ1beM5pNb

JAMES R. HURD 1 No. 86-2385-D 2 3 NETA DECKER, AS PERSONAL ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF REPRESENTATIVE OF THE 4 ESTATE AND SURVIVORS OF JAMES DECKER, DECEASED 5 VS . DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS 6 ARMSTRONG WORLD 7 INDUSTRIES, INC., ET AL. ) 9 5 TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 8 ia. PLAINTIFF'S 9 Pacific ; exhibit li G>P-<f 10 * * * * 1 1 ORAL DEPOSITION 1 2 OF 1 3 JAMES R. HURD 1 4 ****** 15 1 6 ANSWERS AND DEPOSITION OF JAMES R. HURD, 1 7 produced as a witness at the instance of the 1 8 Plaintiff, taken in the above-styled and numbered 1 9 cause on the 27th day of February 1987, at 9-30 20 ar., before Antonice J. Ruesch, Certified Shorthand 2 1 Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of 2 2 Texas, at the offices of Hughes & Luce, 1000 Dallas 2 3 Building, in the City of Dallas, County of Dallas, 2 4 State of Texas, in accordance with the Notice issued 2 5 and the agreement hereinafter set forth. ffidPV PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS .'AMES R. HURD 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 MR. FREDERICK M. BARON 4 Baron & Budd Suite 1000 5 8333 Douglas Avenue Dallas, Texas 75225 6 FOR THE PLAINTIFF 7 MR. R. DOAK BISHOP 8 Hughes & Luce 1000 Dallas Building 9 Commerce and St. Paul Dallas, Texas 75201 10 FOR THE DEFENDANT 1 1 GEORGIA-PACIFIC 1 2 MR. SCOTT A. HENDERSON Smith, Smith and Smith 1 3 810 South St. Paul at Cadiz Dallas, Texas 75201 i4 FOR THE DEFENDANT 1 5 SYNKOLOID 1 6 MS. JENNIFER JUDIN DeHay & Blanchard 1 7 2500 South Tower, LB 114 Dallas, Texas 75201-2880 18 FOR THE DEFENDANT 1 9 THE WELLINGTON GROUP 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 5 1 and used uopn the trial of this cause with the same 2 force and effect as though all requirements of the 3 Rules and Statutes with reference to signature and 4 return had been fully complied with. 5 It is further agreed by and between the 6 parties hereto, through their respective attorneys 7 appearing herein, that if this deposition is not 8 signed and filed prior to any hearing in this case 9 that an unsigned but certified copy may be used for 1 0 all purposes as though signed by said witness. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 J DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R.-HURD 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ""S' 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .2 5 JAMES R. HURD, the witness hereinbefore named, being first duly cautioned and sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, testified on his oath as follows: EXAMINATION BARON Q State your name for the record, pi ease . A . J ames R. Hurd, H - u - r - d . Q Mr. Hurd, your present address ? A . Present address is 2081 Hampt on Trail in Conyers, Georgia. Q. Conyers, Georgia, pretty town. Mr. Hurd, my name is Fred Baron. I represent a woman by the name of Neta Decker who is a plaintiff in a lawsuit against Georgia-Pacific and others which is pending here in state court in Dallas, Texas. I'm going to be asking you some questions today about facts that we think might be relevant to that case. any time you do not understand my question, I want to be sure that you stop me, so that I can try to rephrase it to be sure we are communicating. That way I'll know that every answer that you've given me on the record is a correct answer to the question that I've asked. All right, sir? PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 1 A . Yes, sir. 2 Q. Also, as I tell most witnesses, the 3 court reporter is taking everything that you say 4 down and so you have to make an audible response. 5 She doesn't pick up the rattle when you nod your 6 head. All right, sir? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 (At this time, Mr. 9 Henderson entered the 1 0 deposition room.) 1 1 (Discussion off the 1 2 record.) 1 3 Q Mr. Hurd, how are you presently 1 4 employed? 1 5 A . I'm presently employed - 1 6 Q Or are you presently employed? 1 7 A . Yes, I am. 1 8 Q Okay. At least the last time you 1 9 looked? 20 A . I may not be when I get back. 2 1 MR. BISHOP: Note on the 2 2 record that was a joke. 2 3 Q. How are you presently employed? 2 4 A. I'm employed by Georgia-Pacific as the 2 5 personnel and safety manager of the Gypsum Roofing PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R, HURD 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. No. I sold mens' clothing for a couple of years before I went with the appliance store. Q. And apparently you worked for them for a very short period of time? A. Very short period of time. Q - And then went to work for Continental Can? A . Yes, sir. Q What was your first job with Continental Can? A . I worked as an assistant to the planning coordinator . Q. What type of job was that? A . Scheduling. Q Scheduling? A . Scheduling work in the plant. Q. And when did you become the personnel manager? A. I went from the planning assistant into qmlity control and was a quality control supervisor for about six years before I got involved in personnel work. Q. All right. Quality control for Continental Can was what type of a job? What did you have to do? PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. -HURD 11 1 A. I was in charge of their quality program 2 for the manufacturing of folding cartons. 3 Q. Made sure that the cartons were what 4 they were supposed to be? 5 A. Yes , sir. 6 Q. And you became personnel manager 7 following about six years of doing that; is that 8 right, sir? 9 A. Yes, sir. 1 0 Q. What were your jobs as personnel manager 1 1 for Continental Can? 1 2 A. I was the employment supervisor, and 1 3 this was in Elkhart, Indiana. 1 4 Q. You hired and fired people? 1 5 A. Yes, sir. 1 6 Q. Was this for the national organization 1 7 of Continental Can or just for that one facility? 1 8 A. Just for that one facility. 1 9 Q. How many people were employed there? 20 A. Approximately 600. 2 1 Q. And you left Continental Can in 1967, 2 2 correct? 2 3 A . Yes , sir. 2 4 Q Why did you leave the company? 2 5 A . I left the company i n order to achieve a PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 12 1 2 3 :4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2-6 promotional opportunity that was available at that time. Q. You started working for Georgia-Pacific Augus t 1 of '67? A. Yes. Q. What was your first job with Georgia-Pacific? A. I was personnel manager at a plant in Aurora, Illinois. Q. What type of a plant was it in Aurora? A. Folding carton plant. Q. The same thing you had done with Continental Can? A. Yes, sir. Q. And what were your job duties as personnel manager at the folding carton plant in Aurora? A. I was in charge of all of the personnel and safety activity for that location. Q. When you say "safety," what are you referring to? A. Well, programs that will protect the health and welfare of the employees and are consistent with the rules and regulations of OSHA. Q. Prior to coming to work for PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Right . Q All right. So following your departure as plant manager of the folding box plant in 1973, what job did you take? A I went into the job I currently have. Q Which is personnel and safety manager for Georgia-Pacific? A Yes, sir. Q Is that corporatewide? A . No , sir. Q For what parts of Georgia-Pacific? A . Strictly for the Gypsum and Roofing Division of Georgia-Pacific Q Georgia-Pacific is headquartered in Atlanta, is it not? A . Yes, it is. Q And how many divisions does Georgia-Pacific have? A . I'm not sure. Q Gypsum is one of divisions, is it not? A . Yes, sir. Q Do you know how many different divisions they have, approximately? Is it more than three or four? A . Yeah, there's -- again, I can only take PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 16 1 a guess, but there's a number of them. There's more 2 than four. I would have to go back and count. 3 Q. Do these involve the various operating 4 businesses of Georgia-Pacific - 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. -- each division? About how many people work in the Gypsum Division, or at least how many 8 people worked in the Gypsum Division when you 9 started with them in '73? 1 0 A. We have currently about -- I guess 1 1 there's between 1600 and 2,000. 1 2 Q. About 2,000? 1 3 A. And that hasn't changed substantially 1 4 since I've been there. 1 5 Q. So the Gypsum Division has about 2,000 1 6 or so people? 1 7 A. Yes, sir. 1 8 Q. How many people are employed by 1 9 Georgia-Pacific now, just as an overall corporation, 20 approximately, ballpark figure? 21 A. Oh, shoot. I'd hesitate to guess. I'm 2 2 just not sure. 2 3 Q. Are we talking about 10,000? 20,000? 2 4 100,000? 2 5 MR. BISHOP: If you know, PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS J JAMES R. HURD 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 To 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 tell him, but don't guess. A. I don't know. Q Let me just ask you, Is it in excess of 10,000 people? A Yes, sir. Q Is it in excess of , say, 20,000? A . I'm going t o make an assumption if I say. and I just -- no , I don ' t know. I have not read t he latest. Q Is it in excess of 50,000, or is that out o f the ball par k ? A. I don't know. Q. You don't have any idea whether it's 20,000 or 50,000 or 100,000? A. I just would be -- I'd hesitate to guess at it. No, I don't know. Q A Q A division Okay. To whom do you report? I report to Mr. Glen Wilson. And what is Mr. Wilson's title? He is the senior vice-president of our Q Is he the executive in charge of the Gypsum Division? Yes, sir. And has he been the senior PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 20 1 A. We have five plants that manufacture 2 asphalt roofing. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. We have three plants that are paper 5 plants that manufacture the face and backing board 6 for wallboard. We have two plants that manufacture 7 -- it's a core for fire doors. We have three plants 8 that manufacture joint system products. Now, I 9 didn't count them. I don't know if that's all of 1 0 them or not. 1 1 Q Okay . Mr. Hurd , do each of these plants 1 2 their individual personnel managers ? 1 3 A . Not all of them. 1 4 Q Several of them do? 1 5 A . Yes . 1 6 Q And they report t o you , in turn? 1 7 A . No , they report directly to their plant 1 8 manager. 1 9 Q. Is there a corporatewide safety director 20 #r Georgia-Pacific? 2 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 2 Q. And who is that? 2 3 A. His name is -- Mike Skinner is the + corporate director. 2 5 Q. And what is his title? Do you know? PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 2i 1 A . I don't know what his official title is. 2 Q Does he have duties that also involve 3 pe rsonne1 as well as safety. 4 Q Not that I'm aware of. 5 Q Purely safety? 6 A . Purely safety. 7 Q Has he been with the company for quite 8 some time? 9 A . What's quite some time? 1 0 Q Well, as long as you have. 1 1 A . No, sir. 1 2 Q Who is his predecessor? Do you recall? 1 3 A . A gentleman by the name of Ken Gibson. 1 4 Q And where is he now? Do you know? 1 5 A . I have no idea. 1 6 Q Is he alive? 1 7 A . I don't know. 1 8 Q You don 1t know? 1 9 A . I don't know. 20 . Q. You haven't followed him? 2 1 A . No . 2 2 Q Who was previously in your position? 2 3 A . There was nobody in my position before I 2 4 came . 2 5 Q The position was created for you? PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 22 1 A. Well, the position was created, and I 2 filled it. 3 Q. Then prior to 1973, there was not a 4 divisionwide safety manager for the Gypsum Division 5 of Georgia-Pacific? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. Prior to 1973, was there a Gypsum 8 Division of Georgia-Pacific, or was the division 9 created in '73? 1 0 A. No, there was a Gypsum Division prior to 1 1 '73. 1 2 Q. How long has there been a Gypsum 1 3 Division of Georgia-Pacific, approximately? 1 4 A . I can only guess at the year . 15 Q Ballpark. Is it ' 40s ? ' 50s? '60s? 16 MR. BISHOP: Don ' t guess. If 1 7 you know, tell him the answer. 1 8 Q. Tell me the best answer that -- 1 9 A. Well, I can't give you the exact date, 20 btrt Georgia-Pacific bought Best Wall -- the Gypsum 2 1 Division from Best Wall. 2 2 Q. All right. That's what the inquiry is. 2 3 Was there a Gypsum Division of Georgia-Pacific prior I 25 | to the acquisition of Best Wall? A. Not that I'm aware of it. PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. So you have not found anybody at Georgia-Pacific who would have knowledge about Best Wall safety and health problems, if any, before they were acquired by Georgia-Pacific or have you? MR. BISHOP: I object to that question because it assumes that he's looked into the history. MR. BARON: No, I'm asking him just a pure question if he knows anybody that's over there that would have had safety responsibi1ity at Best Wall before it was acquired by Georgia-Pacific . MR. BISHOP: That's not the way you phrased it. Q. Okay. Well, that's the question, if you unders tand it. A. Repeat the question for me. Q. All right. Do you know anybody who is presently with Georgia-Pacific who would have had responsibility for health and safety at Best Wall before it was acquired by Georgia-Pacific? A. No, sir. Q. What was the business of Best Wall when it was acquired? What business was the Best Wall company in when it was acquired by Georgia-Pacific? PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R..HURD 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I have no idea. I don't know. Q. You have no idea? A. No. All I know is that the Gypsum Division was a part of it. I don't know what products they produced other than that. Q. Did Georgia-Pacific purchase Best Wall and enter into a merger, or do you know what form the transaction took? A. I wasn't involved at the time. I have no idea. Q. And have not looked back? A. No, sir. Q. Have you ever reviewed safety records from Best Wall that were brought to Georg i a-Pacif i c when Best Wall was acquired? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know of anyone at Georgia-Pac i f i c who has reviewed safety records from Best Wall after Georgia-Pacific acquired it? - A. I don't know that there was any records reviewed. Q. Do you know whether there are any records in existence concerning health and safety at Best Wall? A. I have no knowledge of that. PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 27 1 Q. Okay. I take it -- well, first of all 2 you've had your deposition taken before, have you 3 not, or is this the first time? 4 A . No, I've given a deposition before. 5 Q Just one? 6 A . Yes, sir. 7 Q And when was that? 8 A . About a year ago. 9 Q Where? 1 0 A . In -- it was done in Atlanta. 1 1 Q Was that someone from Mr. Motley's 1 2 office that took that deposition? 1 3 A . No, sir. 1 4 Q Do you know who it was? 1 5 A . I can't recall the lawyer's name. 1 6 Q Was it in the asbestos litigation? 1 7 A . No, sir. 18 1 9 in? Q What type of litigation was it involved 20 A . It was involved with a workmen's 2 1 compensation disability case. 2 2 Q. And did it involve a purported lung 2 3 disease? 2 4 A. No, sir. 2 5 Q. So you have been able to stay clear of PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS I JAMES R. HURD 30 1 Q. Do you know an M. F. Fink? 2 A . Yes, sir. 3 Q. Who is he ? 4 A. Matt Fink was -- he was a western 5 regional safety man that worked for Mr, Bill 6 Richards at the time I came with the division. 7 Q. Who Bill Richards? 8 A. He was the operations manager. 9 Q. For? 1 0 A. For the Gypsum plants. 1 1 Q. And Mr. Fink -- what was his safety 1 2 title that you just described? 1 3 A. I don't know what his title was. He was 1 4 the safety man. He worked in the area of safety and 1 5 workmen's compensation at the time. 1 6 Q. Where is he now? 1 7 A. I have -- I haven't the slightest idea. 1 8 Q. Does he still work for Georgia-Pacific? 1 9 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Do you know when he separated his 2 1 employment? 2 2 A. No, I can't give you the date. He 2 3 retired. 24 Q. He retired? 2 5 A. (Witness nodded head up and down.) PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS ( JAMES R . -HURD 31 1 Q. And he was located in what city? 2 A. In Portland, Oregon. 3 Q. When did you first become the 4 representative to the Gypsum Association? 5 A. I can't give you a date. It was after I 6 came with the division. 7 Q. Shortly or several years? 8 A. Oh, it was -- I'd be speculating, but it 9 was some time after I came with the division. 1 0 Q. Have you ever had the opportunity to 1 1 review the minutes of the Gypsum Association? 1 2 A. The Gypsum Association? 1 3 Q. Yes . 14 T5~ A. No, sir. Q. When you attend meetings of the Gypsum 1 6 Association, you subsequently receive the minutes of 1 7 those meetings, do you not? 1 8 A. Yes, sir. 1 9 Q. Okay. 20 A. Now let me clarify that, if I may. I 2 1 receive the minutes of the Safety Committee of the 2 2 Gypsum Association. 2 3 Q. Are you on the Safety Committee of the 2 4 Gypsum Association? A . Yes , s i r . P'-'? -y-j'b' PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS I JAMES R. HURD 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. And how long have you been on the Safety Committee of the Gypsum Association? A. For as long as I've been involved with the association. Q. Was Mr. Fink on the Safety Committee of the Gypsum Association? A. I don't know whether he was or not. Q. Does Georgia-Pacific keep records in one place concerning their relationship with the Gypsum Association? A. I don't know. Q Do you keep your records in one place concerning the Gypsum Association? A. Yes , sir. Q. So you have a file or something of that nature concerning the Gypsum Association? A. Safety Committee -Q. Safety Committee? A. -- of the Gypsum Association. Q. All right. On January 1, 1974, when you began your work as safety director and personnel manager of the Gypsum Division of Georgia-Pacific, had you had any experience with a material called asbestos? A. No experience. PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD 35 I 1 would make you an expert? 2 A . That's t rue. 3 Q. Is there someone at Georgia-Pacific who 4 is an expert on asbestos-reIated diseases that you 5 are awa re of? 6 A. No that I am aware of. 7 Q. Has there ever been anyone? 8 A. Not that I am aware of. 9 Q. Okay. If we wanted to select a job 1 0 category at Georgia-Pacific for the person who we 1 1 would think would be most knowledgeable about 1 2 asbestos health hazards in the Gypsum Division, 1 3 would it be your job title? 1 4 A. I honestly don't know whether there 1 5 would be anyone that would be more familiar or not. 1 6 Q. Well, you are the person in charge of 1 7 health and safety for the Gypsum Division, are you 1 8 not? 1 9 A . Yes . 20 Q. The buck stops at your desk for health 2 1 and safety mat ters? 2 2 A . For our division. 2 3 Q For the Gypsum Division? 24 A . Yes , sir. 2 5 Q And the Gypsum Division is the only 1 PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. .HURD 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 division of Georgia-Pacific that's ever used asbestos? A. I don't know that. Q. Do you know otherwise? A . No, sir. Q. So to the best of your knowledge, based on what you understand, the Gypsum Division is the only one that has used it, unless somebody proves otherwise? A. It's the only one that I'm aware of. Q. And you are the person in the Gypsum Division who is in charge of health and safety? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you do not consider yourself to be knowledgeable about the hazards of asbestos; is that r ight, sir? MR. BISHOP: I think he said he did not consider himself to be an expert in asbestos diseases. MR. BARON: Right. Q. Is that right? A. Tha t1s true. Q. Have you done any personal research on asbestos-related diseases? A. No, sir. PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS JAMES R. HURD , 1 Q. Have you compiled a medical library or !2 anything of that nature on asbestos-re1 ated l3 \ '4 :5 diseases? A. Q. I have not. Have you attended any seminars on 6 asbestos-re1ated diseases? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. Have you directed anyone under you to ,9 attend such seminars? to o A . No, sir. u Q. Have you directed anyone under you to 1 2 accumulate materials on asbestos-re1 ated health 13 ( \^_ hazards? ________ A. No, sir. 1 5 Q. To your knowledge, has Georgia-Pacific 1 6 corporation ever engaged in testing its products to 1 7 determine whether they present a health hazard? And 1 8 when I say "its products," those containing 1 9 asbestos . 20 A. Whether they contain healthhazards? 2 1 A. Yes, whether Georgia-Pacific products 2 2 would present a health hazard. 2 3 A . Any produc ts ? 2 4 Q. No , asbestos- containing products 2 5 A . I ' m not aware o f any. PRITCHETT & ROMANS 373-4977 DALLAS, TEXAS