Document wgwJzd3RGVNz8RXBpeZ6wKgO4

v <a Jr 5 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS FOR PHILADELPHIA COUNTY DANIEL R. FLUHARTY, JR., and MARY E. FLUHARTY, his wife. Plaintiffs : : vs. JOHNS-MANVILLE, CORP., JOHNS-MANVILLE SALES CORP., RAYBESTOS-MANHATTAN, INC., OWENS-CORNING FIBERGLASS CORP, NICOLET INDUSTRIES, INC., PITTSBURGH CORNING CORP., CELOTEX CORPORATION, UNARCO INDUSTRIES, INC., EGALE-PICHER INDUSTRIES, INC., KEENE CORPORATION, PACOR, INC., BRAND INSULATIONS, INC., ARMSTRONG CORK COMPANY, AMATEX CORPORATION, TURNER & NEWALL, LTD., H. K. PORTER CO., INC., SOUTHERN ASBESTOS CO., Defendants COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF PHILADELPHIA COUNTY JULY TERM, 1979 NO. 962 CIVIL TRIAL DIVISION Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, February 7, 1980 '-s$c*yiuri/etfs & StZ&iacia/eA,, 12// ^AjadruU eft. 5ftu/e- 90/ cfflu/actefiAta,, fTa,. /9/07 f2/5J56M -2 -/SI 95 PAGE 1 Continued Deposition of THOMAS G. STEWART, 2 taken pursuant to Notice, held at the offices of BLANK, 3 ROME, COMISKY & McCAULEY, 1200 Four Penn Center Plaza, on 4 Thursday, February 7, 1980, at 10:00 A.M., before Ruth M. 5 Martin, a Registered Professional Reporter, Notary Public, 6 Approved Reporter of the United States District Court, and 7 Certified Shorthand Reporter. 8 APPEARANCES: 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 BLANK, ROME, COMISKY & McCAULEY By: MITCHELL S. COHEN, ESQ. 1200 Four Penn Center Plaza Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 Attorneys for the Plaintiffs. MARSHALL,.DENNEHEY & WARNER By: ANNE M. KENNEY, ESQ. 1515 Locust Street Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102 Attorneyss for Johns-Manville. JOHN F. NAULTY, ESQ. By: WILLIAM G. CILINGIN, ESQ. 1130 Land Title Building Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19110 Attorneys for Raybestos-Manhattan, Inc. KRUSEN, EVANS & BYRNE By: STEPHEN R. BASSER, ESQ. ' MICHAEL P. O'CONNOR, ESQ. Public Ledger Building, Fifth Floor Independence Square Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19106 Attorneys for Owens-Corning. BENNETT, BRICKLIN & SALTZBURG By: WALTER D. MEELEY, ESQ. 1800 IVB Building 1700 Market Street Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 Attorneys for Nicolet Industries. isMcCtfinJetf/ If ftih&aciae&', J?nc>. ' | 1 APPEARANCES: (Continued) 2 CONNORS AND McEVILLY By: JOHN J. CONNORS, JR., ESQ. 3 Southampton Professional Building 57 Street Road 4 Southampton, Pennsylvania 18966 Attorneys for Pittsburgh Coming Corp. 5 MALCOLM & RILEY 6 By: ANDREW J. TREVELISE, ESQ. EDMUND K. JOHN, ESQ., 7 1154 West Chester Pike West Chester, Pennsylvania 19380 8 Attorneys for Celotex Corporation. 9 DETWEILER, HUGHES & KOKONOS By: JOHN G. JENEMANN, ESQ. 10 2820 PSFS Building 12 South 12th Street 11 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107 Attorneys for Unarco Industries, Inc. 12 JOSEPH R. THOMPSON, ESQ. 13 By: BARBARA A. PENNELL, ESQ. MARIA S. ROSMINI, ESQ. 14 656 Public Ledger Building Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19106 15 Attorneys for Eagle-Picher Industries, Inc. 16 LaBRUM and DOAK By: SAMUEL J. PACE, JR., ESQ. 17 700 IVB Building 1700 Market Street 18 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 Attorneys for Keene Corporation. 19 SCHWARTZ, CAMPBELL & DETWEILER 20 By: G. DANIEL BRUCH, JR., ESQ. 1724 Philadelphia National Bank Building 21 Broad and Chestnut Streets Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107 22 Attorneys for Pacor, Inc. 23 (Continued) 24 la**.-:- UA dbufotleif 9P S&Aocia/e. 95b PAGE APPEARANCES: (Continued) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ALSO PRESENT: JONES, GUTHRIE, STROHM, MORRIS By: NORMAN L. HAASE, ESQ. First Federal Savings Building, Suite 200 22 West State Street Media, Pennsylvania 19063 Attorneys for Brand Insulations. DEASEY, SCANLAN & BENDER, LTD. By: THOMAS J. INGERSOLL, ESQ. 2900 Two Girard Plaza Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102 Attorneys for Armstrong Cork Company. PETRIKIN, WELLMAN, DAMICO & CARNEY By: PETER A. DUNN, ESQ. 602 East Baltimore Pike Media, Pennsylvania 19063 WHITE" AND WILLIAMS By: JERROLD P. ANDERS, ESQ. 1234 Market Street, 17th Floor Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107 Attorneys for H. K. Porter Co., Inc. and Southern Asbestos Co. OBERMAYER, REBMANN, MAXWELL & HIPPEL By: DAVID MORGAN, ESQ. Packard Building, 14th Floor 15th & Chestnut Streets Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102 Attorneys for Owens-Illinois. 19 WENDY BOOKLER, Paralegal Blank, Rome, Comisky & McCauley. 20 21 22 23 24 i .1 dbCtfvduf/ Sib<iacia/e&-, 96a PAGE 1 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS 2 FOR PHILADELPHIA COUNTY 3 DANIEL R. FLUHARTY, JR., and 4 MARY E. FLUHARTY, his wife. Plaintiffs 5 vs. 6 JOHNS-MANVILLE CORP., et al 7 COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF PHILADELPHIA COUNTY JULY TERM, 1979 NO. 962 CIVIL TRIAL DIVISION 8 9 Stewart-2 10 EXH B Handwritten list of jobs and materials. Page 142 11 Stewart-3 12 Stewart-4 13 Handwritten list entitled Shipping Dates. Original Payroll Record of Daniel Fluharty. 142 145 14 Stewart-5 15 Stewart-6A 16 Stewart-6B 17 Stewart-6C 18 Stewart-6D 19 20 Stewart-6E 21 Stewart-6F 22 23 Stewart-6G 24 Stewart-6H Xerox copy of Payroll Record of Daniel Fluharty. 14 8 Brochure of Foster Fibrous Adhesive. 222 Brochure of Eagle-Pitcher Ind.,Inc. 222 Keene Insulation and Contracting Division Data Sheet, 4/1/74. 222 Certain-Teed Product Data Sheet on Standard Duct Insulation. 222 Certain-Teed Product Data Sheet on Industrial Insulation Board. 222 Forty-Eight Insulations, Inc., brochure. 223 Owens-Coming brochure. 223 Pabco Data Sheet. (Continued) 223 SSh&oda/eb, J^nc*. 96b PAGE EXHIBITS (Cont'd) 3 Stewart-6I 4 Stewart-6J 5 Stewart-6K 6 Stewart-6L 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Celotex Data Sheet 223 Pittsburgh Coming brochure. 223 Amatex Thermoglass Textiles brochure. 223 Atlas Asbestos Co. brochure. 223 db*y(jsdetf tfl/iaer V S&h&ac*a6e&, J?n&. PACE 97 , 2 MS. PENNELL: My name is Barbara Pennell and 3 I represent Eagle-Picher Industries, Inc. 4 It is our position that the deposition today. 5 as well as the prior deposition of Mr. Stewart, was -6 Noticed in the Fluharty case. We are here repre- 7 senting Eagle-Picher in the Fluharty case"only. 8 We object to the use of this deposition in any other 9 case in any other jurisdiction. We are here solely 10 in this case. >" 12 13 That's all. MS. KENNEY: I join in the statement. MR. BRUCH: So do I, and I assume it's 14 joined in also -- 15 MR. HAASE: That's only objections. 16 MR. COHEN: That was a statement as opposed 17 to an objection. 18 MS. KENNEY: I join in the statement. 1 19 MR. COHEN: The statement is made and. 20 obviously, I would take exception to it for various 21 reasons. 22 Before we begin, can we have the stipulation ) 23 with respect to objections? Can we all agree that 24 the usual stipulation with respect to the objection > k ^ ' ^ PAGE _JL8 L of one defendant will enure to the benefit of all -- 2 MS. KENNEY: Unless specifically -- 3 MR. COHEN: -- unless someone wants to 4 particularly except from an objection will apply? 5 Any problem with that? 6 MR. HAASE: Well, that was the stipulation 7 prior to the commencement of the initial deposition. 8 I would assume all stipulations made at that time are 9 now in effect. 10 MR. BRUCH: And I assume that applies to 11 the statement made by counsel for Eagle-Picher at 12 the beginning of the deposition, that applies for ] 13 all defendants. 1 14 MR. COHEN: All the defendants can join in 15 the statement that was made by Ms. Pennell. 16 17 THOMAS G. STEWART, 4 Edgewater Drive, 18 Earleville, Maryland, having been duly sworn, was | 19 examined and continued testifying as follows: 20 EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. COHEN: (Continued) 22 Q Mr. Stewart, continuing the deposition, I'd like to 23 ask whether between the conclusion of the first portion of 24 the deposition and today you have had occasion in preparation y&nlufr ty/ibe, If SZih&acuiieA*, J^nc. Stewart 99 PAGE_____ 1 for thiss deposition to look at any documents or records? 2A Yes. 3Q Okay. And would you specifically identify any 4 documents or records that you've had occasion to look at 5 between the first deposition and today in order to prepare 6 yourself for this deposition. 7A The transcript of my previous deposition and the 8 transcript of Fluharty's deposition. 9Q Now, with respect to the transcripts of Mr. 10 Fluharty's deposition, did you look at all of the transcripts 11 from both what is called a discovery deposition and videotape 12 deposition? 13 A No. I briefly scanned through documents that were , 14 there. I'm not sure -- I really didn't get involved too 15 deeply into it. 16 Q Okay. 17 A 18 Q It was very repetitious. And other than conversations you may have had with * 19 counsel, which I'm not inquiring about, would you tell me 20 the names of any and all persons that you've spoken with 21 regarding this matter. 22 A Only the personnel in our office that I asked to 23 produce the information that you asked for. 24 Q Have you had discussions regarding the substance of W ShbuuucueA,, J?n&. Stewart 100 PAGE 1 any allegation made by Mr. and Mrs. Fluharty in this matter? 2A No. 3Q Now, I believe toward the latter part of the last 4 deposition you stated that you spoke with Mr. Hoshaw 5 regarding some knowledge in the latter part of the 1960s of 6 health hazards associated with asbestos exposure? 7A That*~s right. 8Q And would you tell us what Mr. Hoshaw's position 9 was at Philip Carey at that time? 10 A He was General Manager over all contract branches. 11 Q And where was Mr. Hoshaw located? 12 A Cincinnati. 13 Q And with respect to your position at the time you 14 spoke with Mr. Hoshaw, he was your superior. Would that be 15 correct? 16 A My immediate -- my immediate boss. 17 Q And who was Mr. Hoshaw's immediatesuperior? 18 A I don't think there was anyone he reported to other 1 19 than the President of the company. 20 Q Okay. And at that time that was whom? 21 A John Humphries. 22 Q Now, other than speaking with Mr. Hoshaw, did you 23 have any conversations with any other supervisors of Philip 24 Carey during this latter part of the 1960s period? y&n/etf JZhutctirArd', t^nc*. Stewart 101 PAGE 1A No. 2Q And would you relate for us what Mr. Hoshaw advised 3 you during your conversations of health hazards associated 4 with asbestos and asbestos exposure? 5A I don't think there was ever any real advice, it was 6 just a general discussion between two people about informa 7 tion that both of us had received from essentially the same 8 sources. 9Q Okay. Can you recall any substance of the conversa 10 tion or conversations that you had with Mr. Hoshaw? 11 A Nothing specific, just discussion in general about 12 what appeared to be a problem that we both considered to be I 13 relatively minor at the time. 2 14 Q Now, specifically, would you define what the problem 15 was that each of you considered to be relatively minor at 16 the time? 17 A Well, we had heard through, I guess, primarily 18 through the Union sources that they had done some research ,119 or had caused to be done some research in regard to asbestos 20 and we were just in general trying to see whether the 21 research -- what the research had developed and if it was a 22 serious problem. 23 Q Okay. Well, when you say that the Union had caused 24 or been involved in asbestos research, I believe you sMcC&nletf ^10- & S&iAacta/ea,, Stewart 102 PAGE 1 specifically made reference to the so-called Green Sheets -- 2A Exactly. 3Q 4A -- that appeared. Is that correct? Yes. 5Q And besides the Green Sheets, what other bases of 6 information did you have that let you know individually that 7 there may be a health hazard associated with asbestos? 8A Just general discussions with other contractors in 9 the Contractors Association meetings from time to time. 10 Q And what Contractors Association are you talking 11 about? 12 A The Philadelphia Insulation ContractorsAssociation, 13 as well as the National Insulation Contractors Association. 14 Q And as best you can recall, during this latter 15 part of the 1960s, would you tell us who were members of 16 those respective trade associations that you can recall, 17 starting first with Philadelphia? 1 18 A 19 All the major contractors in this area. Ourself; I think it was -- J 20 MR. HAASE; Who was "ourself" at that time? 21 THE WITNESS; Philip Carey Company at that 22 time. 23 A I think at the time AC&S, as it's presently known, 24 was known as Armstrong Cork; Auchenbach and Butler Company; y&n/et* If SZZuuuuafa,, ^ru>. Stewart 103 PAGE_______ 1 Philadelphia Asbestos Company? Baldwin, Ehret, Hill. 2 Who am I leaving out? 3 Owens-Coming. 4 I'm trying to think if I left anybody out. 5 I think that was all of them. .6 Q Okay. What I'd like to do is, in an effort to 7 potentially refresh your memory, if this is applicable, is 8 to have you just look at Page 2 of the caption, Page 2 and 9 2A, and tell me whether in addition to those that you've 10 just mentioned for us in the Philadelphia area you see any 11 other suppliers or manufacturers that were, as best you can 12 recall, members of the Philadelphia Association? 13 MR. HAASE: In the late 1960s? 14 MR. COHEN: In the period that we're talking 15 about. 16 (Pause.) 17 A There's no one on this list. 18 Q I'm sorry, there is -- 19 A There's no one on this list who was a member of the 20 Association. 21 Q Okay. Now, you've just defined for us the members 22 of the Philadelphia Contractors Association. 23 Was there a Pennsylvania Contractors 24 Association that you were aware of? tsMcCfotleu/ V S$h&acia/e&> jflrto. Stewart 104 PAGE________ 1A No. 2Q And you stated that there was a National Trade 3 Association? 4A Right. 5Q Okay.Would you tellus who, asbest you can 6 recall, were members in the latter part of the 1960s other 7 than Philip Carey of the National Association? 8A Most of the ones thatI mentionedpreviously were 9 also members of the National Association. 10 MR. COHEN: Let me go off the record for a 11 12 . second. (Discussion off the record.) 13 MR. COHEN: Let's go back on. 14 BY MR. COHEN: 15 Q Can you think of any additional contractors who 16 belonged to the National that you have not named as being 17 members of the Philadelphia? 1 18 A Let me say that almost every major contractor around 19 the country belonged to the National group. 20 Insulation Services from Tulsa, Oklahoma. 21 These are just a few of the names that I 22 can recall -- 23 Q Okay. 24 A -- not a complete list, by any means. dby&n/etf tyl/i&er If ^&&aaa/e<jfrtc. Stewart 105 PAGE________ 1Q Okay. 2A Shook & Fletcher from somewhere down the southwest, 3 Wallace & Gale from Baltimore, Porter Hayden Company, 4 Robert A. Casbey Company from New York City. 5 That's all I can think of at the moment. 6Q Okay. Now, can you recall approximately how many 7 meetings on a yearly basis the Philadelphia Contractors 8 Association would have? 9A They'd meet monthly. 10 Q So they have 12 meetings a year? 11 A Right. 12 Q Now, in the latter part of the 1960s, how many of 13 those meetings did you attend as a representative of Philip 14 Carey Corporation? 15 A All of them. 16 Q And of those 12 meetings per year, as best you can 17 recall, how many of those meetings was the subject of 18 potential asbestos hazards or problems associated with 9 \ 19 exposure discussed amongst and between the member of the I 20 Association? 21 A Probably two or three. 22 Q Okay. So let us take, if I may, a period of 1967. 23 Would that be too early in terms of your 24 best recollection of when you first became aware of the .If J?nc. Stewart PAGE 106 1 hazards? 2A I think it might be a year or two too early. 3Q Okay. Then let me say from 1968 there would have 4 been discussions two or three meetings per year from the 5 Philadelphia Trade Association treating the subject of 6 hazards associated with asbestos? 7A It wasn't a cut and dried scheduled item for an 8 agenda, it was justa discussion that would come up spon 9 taneously during the meeting. 10 Q Okay. 11 A I'd say essentially yes, you're right. 12 Q And essentially what was shared and discussed amongst ii 13 members of the Philadelphia Association with respect to 14 reports or knowledge of alleged health hazards? 15 A Primarily, we were discussing what type of face mask 16 would be suitable to furnish to the workmen to protect them. 17 . And just as an aside, one of the original 18 lists that came out was from either the Asbestos Workers 19 Local or jointly by the Asbestos Workers and the national i 20 group. It turned out immediately after that list was 21 issued that the one top-rated mask had to be withdrawn 22 because the filter that was in it was made out of asbestos, 23 and we decided that it wasn't appropriate to use to filter 24 out asbestos with. y&nletfr ty/tAe* V S^Aocia/eM Stewart 107 PAGE________ 1Q Okay. Now, was there any discussion of Workmen's 2 Compensation claims being filed against the various con 3 tractors that were members of the Philadelphia Association. 4 MR. BASSER: Objection to the form of the 5 question. 6A I don't recall any discussion along that line that 7 early. 8 MR. BASSER: Remove the objection. 9Q Would you relate for me in addition to the subject 10 matter of appropriate face masks to be worn by insulators, 11 what other topics were discussed with respect to insulators 12 and a health hazard that they may expose themselves to 13 through asbestos? 14 A I don't think there was any other discussion at 15 that point. 16 Q So to summarize -- and if I'm incorrect, please tell 17 me -- we are in a period of the very late sixties, the only 1 18 discussion that you recall amongst and between the members 19 of the Philadelphia Trade Association dealt with the issue 20 of the type of face mask that should be utilized by insula 21 tors to help them in some manner against health hazards 22 that they may experience with asbestos? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q There were no other topic areas relating to health Stewart 108 PAGE 1 hazards that you recall being discussed? 2A Not to the best of my knowledge, no. 3Q Now, let me jump up now to the National Trade 4 Association and ask you again, how many meetings starting 5 from the latter part of the 1960s do you recall were 6 scheduled on a yearly basis for the contractors who were 7 members? - 8A I think they hold -- did then and now hold two 9 meetings a year. _ 10 Q All right. And did you attend those meetings as a 11 representative for Philip Carey? 12 A No, I did not. 13 Q Do you know who did attend those meetings? 14 A 15 Q Chuck Hoshaw. Did you ever have a conversation with Mr. Hoshaw 16 following his return from any of these national meetings 17 or prior to his going to these national meetings regarding 18 the subject of health hazards associated with asbestos? 19 A Not specifically, no. 20 Q Now, you've already suggested to us that Mr. 21 Hoshaw did not believe that the health hazard was a serious 22 one. 23 A From our conversation, I would say that is correct. 24 Q Do you know whether he imparted that view or belief Stewart 109 PAGE________ 1 to members of the National Association? 2A I have no knowledge, I don't know. 3Q Did you ever see any writings or materials that were 4 brought back by Mr. Hoshaw from any National meetings? 5A Not as brought back by him. There were some bulle-. -6 tins distributed from the National that I did see copies of. 7Q Okay. Did Philip Carey get, by virtue of being a 8 member of the National Association, publications by the 9 Association? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And where would those publications be at the present I 12 time, if you know? | 13 A I don't know. Probably in Cincinnati. si 14 Q Now, with respect to the Philadelphia Association, 15 and I don't think I have defined it specifically, do you 16 recall the name of the Association? 17 A Which one? 18 Q 19 A The Philadelphia. ThePhiladelphia Insulation ;i Contractors Association, 20 Inc. 21 Q Okay. And do you know where they're headquartered? 22 A They're in the Land Title Building, Room No. 640. 23 Q And how about the NationalAssociation? 24 A It's headquartered in Washington, D.C. I'm -- I I dbCfoi/etJ/ W S&aocuz&a,, J?nc. Stewart 110 PAGE________ >,3K 1 don't know the address. 2Q And would that be the National Insulation -- 3A NICA, National Insulation Contractors Association. 4Q Now, we've started at a period of approximately 5 1968. 6 Can you tell us from that point on with 7 respect to -- I'm going to use PICA, P-I-C-A, would you tell 8 us how many PICA meetings you attended in terms of years 9 from 1968 upward? . 10 A 11 12 Q I think we just covered that. < I covered all -- attended almost every one. Okay. And are you still attending meetings? | 13 A Yes. 14 Q Okay. Is it your best recollection that from 1968 15 on you have continuously attended meetings each year? 16 A Yes. .. 17 Q Now, at anytime with respect to PICA, do you recall 18 any other topic or area relating to health hazards being 19 discussed other than the face mask issue that we've just 20 discussed, and I4m talking about from 1968 up to and 21 including 1979? 22 A Yes. 23 Q 1980? 24 A Yes. W S&uUictaZeA,, J^nc. Stewart PAGE 111 1Q Okay. Can you give me your best recollection as 2 to the time reference and also the other area that was 3 discussed? 4A Approximately two years ago when everybody was 5 fully convinced that this is a very, very serious hazard, 6 we've discussed at great length and do in fact, not as an 7 association, but each individual company, I'm sure, supplies 8 anybody working with asbestos with complete body coverage, 9 including coveralls, a hood, face mask, boots to go -- paper 10 boots to go over shoes, disposable items. 11 Q A 12 Was that done on your own or by OSHA requirements? It was done after OSHA made us aware of it, what 13 would be acceptable to them. : | A 14 Q So in other words, it was Federal regulation that 15 required you to provide these paper protective clothing 16 items ? 17 * MR. INGERSOLL: Objection to the form of the 18 19 A question. iIt was Federal regulation or Federal publication that 20 made us aware of what we needed to do. 21 Q Okay. 22 MS. KENNEY: Objection. . 23 Q Now, other than this period some two years ago where 24 the subject of providing paper protective clothing was dbytinleif ^Uffi' V S&Aacia/eA* J?nc. Stewart PAGE 112 1 discussed, do you recall any other conversation amongst 2 PICA members relating to health hazards associated with 3 asbestos and asbestos exposure? 4A Only insofar as to try to update ourselves on -- on 5 masks, as to what types were available and which one worked 6 the best. 7Q Was there any discussion about training programs 8 for insulators being instituted? 9A No. 10 Q Was there any discussion of internal publications 11 by the Trade Association or members of the Association in 12 order to educate personnel and insulators about hazards 13 associated with asbestos and asbestos exposure? 14 A No. 15 Q Was there anydiscussionabout increase ordecrease 16 in Workmen's Compensation claims being filed? 17 A 18 Yes. MR. BASSER: Objection. \ 19 Q Andspecifically, whatwasdiscussed in relation to 20 Workmen's Comp claims? 21 A Just the number of them, how many there were and 22 how they were proliferating. 23 Q Now, what period of time did this sort of discussion 24 take place? V S&utfictn/eA,, jfinc,. Stewart PAGE 113 1A I guess from about 1963 forward. 2Q So there was discussion about the proliferation 3 of Comp claims? 4 MS. PENNELL: Objection. 5A Yes. 6Q Now, was there any discussion about third-party 7 lawsuits? 8 Let me ask you, do you know what I mean by 9 third-party lawsuits? . 10 A I don't understand the term. 11 Q Was there any discussion about a lawsuit such as the 12 one that Mr. and Mrs. Fluharty have filed; that is, an 13 action otherthan a Workmen's Compensation claim? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Okay. And when did that discussion or discussions 16 take place? 17 A Overthe last several years. 18 Q Okay. If I can, I don't mean to pin you down to 19 an exact date, but when you say the last several, going 20 backwards from 1980, what period of time are you-- 21 A Maybe '75 or '76. 22 Q . Okay. 23 MR. TREVELISE: May I ask, discussion 24 among whom? I'm not sure I'm clear. Is that PICA? S&&acia/e&, ^na. Stewart PAGE 114 1Q I believe -- and if I'm incorrect in what I'm 2 about to say, let me know -- you were saying there was 3 discussion among members of PICA -- 4A Correct. 5Q 6A -- about these variousareas? Correct. 7Q Okay. Now,specifically, what "was discussed in 8 relation to the proliferation of Workmen's Compensation 9 cases and what discussions were had with respect to what 10 I'm calling third-party lawsuits? 11 A It was -- really it wasn't an extended discussion, 12 it was just a go-around-the-table about how many suits are 13 you party to type thing, an expression of alarm that we're 14 getting included in so many suits. 15 Q And would that same discussion hold true for Comp 16 discussions? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Okay. How about the subject of death or the rate 19 of death among asbestos insulators? 20 A I don't think we had had any death experience at 21 that point. 22 Q Was there any discussion about cancer and its 23 association with asbestos or asbestos exposure? 24 MR. MEELEY: Object to the form of that &Aacia/e&, Stewart 115 PAGE________ 1 question. 2 MS. KENNEY: Ob j ec tion. 3A Only in general. 4Q Would you tell us whatdiscussions relating or 5 regarding cancer were held? - 6 MS. KENNEY: Objection. 7A Well, only in the same relationship to the -- to the 8 other discussions, that was the cause of the suits. 9Q So you are now talking about a period of 1975, I 10 believe? 11 A '75 or '76, somewhere in that area. 12 Q Okay. Now, prior to that, do you recall there being 13 any of these discussions? 14 A No. 15 Q Was there any discussion regarding physical examina 16 tions for insulators? 17 A Yes. 3 18 Q Okay. And would you tell us the context of those 19 discussions? 20 A Context was that our attorney, who attends all the 21 meetings, advised us that we should offer physical examina 22 tion to every man in the Local, and PICA prepared forms 23 which each individual company then sends out once a year. 24 Q And what time frame are you talking about now? y&nJttf 'ty/t&er Sybutcia/eA,, Stewart 116 PAGE 1A It must have been about '75. 2Q Now, did Philip Carey or, I'm sorry, did Brand at 3 that point begin instituting pre-employment physicals? 4A We tried to, but were not allowed to. 5Q Okay. Did Brand institute examination of any then 6 present members of its Contracting Unit, employees? 7A We again tried to and were not allowed to. 8Q Prior to this 1975 period, did Brand or its prede 9 cessor, Philip Carey, have pre-employment physicals for its 10 employees? 11 MS. TREVELISE: Objection to the form of 12 the question. 13 A No, we didn't, and I'll explain why if you want me 14 to. 15 Q Well, let me get back to that, I know what you're 16 about to say. 17 A Okay. 18 Q Was there any discussion regarding warning labels 19 by the PICA association beginning anytime in the 1960s? 1 i 20 A No. 21 Q Was there any discussion at anytime in the 1970s 22 of utilization of warning labels regarding asbestos products? 23 A No. 24 Q Was there any discussion of warning labels regarding Stewart 117 PAGE_______ 1 calcium silicate products? 2A No. 3Q At anytime was there a discussion -- and when I say 4 at anytime, I'm going back to 1968 -- 5A Right. 6Q -- and including inthat Philip Carey and then, 7 obviously, the switchover in 1970 to Brand -- about the 8 utilization of dust monitoring or dust levels at job sites? 9A There was somediscussion of it, yeah. 10 Q Okay. And can you tell me when that discussion took 11 place and what the nature of the discussion was? 12 A It was in-andaround '75 or '76, andthediscussion 13 related to the necessity for monitoring and the conclusion 14 was drawn that almost all the job sites are outdoors and it 15 would be, number one, very hard to monitor due to wind 16 changes and whatnot, and we also concluded that we felt the 17 concentration was so low that it wouldn't be necessary on 18 outdoor jobs. i 19 Q Who felt that? 20 A The contractors themselves. 21 Q And are you aware of any particular expertise that 22 any particular representative had to make that determination? 23 A I understand that one of our competitors, Pacor, 24 Incorporated, does have some monitoring equipment and had Stewart 118 PAGE 1 done some monitoring of their own job. 2Q Now, do you know whether the monitoring took place 3 on outside jobs or inside jobs? 4A I don't know. 5Q Now, does the name Thomas Mancuzzi mean anything to 6 you? 7A Nothing. 8Q As I understand your testimony, Philip Carey and 9 Brand was aware, and I'm going back to Philip Carey first, 10 as early as the late sixties that there was a reported 11 association between exposure to asbestos and health hazards? 12 A Yes. 13 MR. TREVELISE: Object to the form. 14 Q What was done by Philip Carey from the time it 15 became aware of an alleged health hazard up through and 16 including 1970? 17 MR. TREVELISE: Objection. 18 A Well, let me define our interpretation of what the 19 health hazard was, number one. 20 MR. HAASE: Who's "our"? . 21 THE WITNESS: Philip Carey Company. 22 MR. TREVELISE: May I make a statement 23 before we continue? 24 It's my understanding that Mr. Stewart is Stewart PAGE 119 1 here on behalf of Brand Insulations as a witness. 2 MR. COHEN: No, that's not correct. He is 3 here as a representative of both Brand and its 4 predecessor, Philip Carey. 5 MR. TREVELISE: That's a term you're using. 6 He's here in his relationship to Brand 7 Insulations. 8 MR. HAASE: He's here as a witness. 9 MR. TREVELISE: He's represented by counsel, 10 who represents Brand Insulations. He is not in any 11 way a witness here for or on behalf of Celotex, 12 Philip Carey, et cetera. 13 MR. COHEN: No, I have to differ with you. 14 He is here as a present employee and representative 15 witness of what is the entity now known as Brand. 16 Okay? 17 Now, his prior testimony has established 1 18 that prior to Brand's takeover of Contract Units, I i 19 that he was employed by Philip Carey, and it is a 20 predecessor corporation. 21 That is my statement. 22 MR. TREVELISE: That is your statement. 23 MR. COHEN: Okay. There's been no represen 24 tation by anyone to the contrary, okay, and what I'm .sMcCtfviAy W i,, J$IC. ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Stewart PAGE__120_____ saying is that as a predecessor in interest and as a person who was previously employed by Philip Carey, he has valuable knowledge that I am attempting r to utilize. Now, I don't understand your statement or, I mean, if you're objecting to my being able to go back prior to 1970 and ask him any question -- is that your objection? MR. TREVELISE: He is not here as a witness on behalf of Philip Carey or Celotex. MR. COHEN: There is no Philip Carey. . ' MR. TREVELISE: On behalf of Celotex. MR. COHEN: Philip Carey exists as Brand. 1 S 1 Celotex -- MR. HAASE: No, it doesn't. And I thought -- 4 1 MR. TREVELISE: Can we go off the record for i 5 a minute? MR. COHEN: Let's go off the record. MR. HAASE: I don't see why we have to go off the record. Mr. Stewart has already testified at Session Number one that sometime late in 1970, and I think he said October, the Contract Installation S^h&actafeA, %^no. Stewart 121 PAGE 1 functions of Philip Carey were purchased by Brand, 2 not its Manufacturing functions. 3 MR. TREVELISE: That's correct. 4 MR. HAASE: Brand carried on from that point 5 on. Philip Carey existed and was merged into 6 another company, which he identified earlier. 7 I think Mr. Stewart is here currently as 8 an employee of Brand and he is a witness to various 9 things from the time that he started testifying. 10 MR. TREVELISE: My point is, he is not here 11 as my witness, he is here on behalf of Brand. 12 MR. COHEN: Oh, I understand what you're 13 saying, okay. 14 MR. TREVELISE: I have no control over the 15 witness as such. He's here on behalf of Brand 16 Insulations. 17 MR. COHEN: I'm not going to limit my 18 questioning as it relates to Celotex or any other i 19 manufacturer, producer or distributor. If you find 20 a particular question objectionable as to form, you 21 can raise that objection. 22 I just don't understand --I mean, he is 23 obviously not your witness. 24 MR. TREVELISE: He is not here as an employee tfl/ibe' J&AoeiateA', J?na. ' ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Stewart 122 PAGE of Celotex, a manufacturing agent or anything of that nature. MR. COHEN: He is here as an employee of Brand. MR. TREVELISE: He is here as an employee of Brand. MR. COHEN: Right. MR. HAASE: At the present time. MR. COHEN: At the present time, right. And what I'm saying is, I am not precluding myself from asking him about Celotex and any products that Celotex may have manufactured at any point that he may have experience or relevant a 1 4 3 ; knowledge of. MR. TREVELISE: But he is not speaking as an employee or manufacturing agent of Celotex, Philip Carey, whatever the case may be in that context. because he is not at this time in either position. | MR. COHEN: I'm not going to -- MR. TREVELISE: As far as I can see, my objections are preserved until later in the event any testimony is used against us. I just want it made clear he is not here on our behalf at this time, he is here on behalf of Brand Insulations; SiL^ociaiedf, Stewart 123 PAGE 1 and as a result of that, I have no control, I have 2 no power to instruct him in terms of answering 3 questions or anything of that nature, and I want 4 that made clear, that's all. 5 MR. COHEN: Okay. 6 MR. TREVELISE: Basically, the objections 7 are preserved and I want that understanding because, 8 as I said, I can't instruct him not to answer at 9 this point. At the time if you were ever to attempt 10 to use any of his testimony in connection with 11 Celotex in an attempt to show he was an employee or 12 something like that, I want it understood that I, 13 as I said, have no control over his testimony, no 14 control over the ability to instruct him not to 15 answer or anything of that nature. 16 MR. COHEN: Okay. I'm just saying that 17 whatever testimony is derived from Mr. Stewart can 18 and will be used in any appropriate manner against 19 any and all co-defendants. I understand what you're 20 saying. 21 MR. TREVELISE: My objections as to compe 22 tency, et cetera, are all preserved until the time 23 of trial and I want that understanding. 24 MR. COHEN: All right. t^ictyCsdtu, JZtfLuurfirr/lr&i ^nc. Stewart 124 PAGE . 1 MR. TREVELISE: And it can't be used in the 2 context of a witness on behalf of Celotex, Philip 3 Carey, becaause he's here on behalf of Brand. 4 MR. COHEN: You're saying he can't be used 5 as a witness on behelf of Celotex, Philip Carey, 6 all right, that I take exception to because -- 7 MR. TREVELISE: That's what is preserved. 8 MR. COHEN: Okay. I think the basis of the 9 testimony has been laid, so it will have to wait a 10 future action. 11 Would you go back and read the last question, a j12 please. 13 (The following portion of the record is 14 read by the Reporter: 15 "QUESTION: What was done by Philip Carey 16 from the time it became aware of an alleged health 17 . hazard up through and including 1970? 18 "MR. TREVELISE: Objection. 19 "ANSWER: Well, let me define our interpreta 20 tion of what the health hazard was, number one.") 21 BY MR. COHEN: 22 Q Okay. Mr. Stewart, would you define the parameters 23 of the health hazard as Philip Carey understood it in the 24 late 1960s. dby&nletf 9? S&Aactafe6,, ^no. Stewart 125 PAGE MR. TREVELISE: Objection to form. A Let me redefine it as to my interpretation. I was employed by Philip Carey and I'm presently employed by Brand, and I still have the same interpretation, that the health hazard is the breathing of the asbestos fibers and getting them into your lungs. So the precautions we took was to issue masks that we felt adequate to stop that from!'happening. Q Am I correct that Philip Carey began issuing masks am I correct, in the seventies? MR. TREVELISE: Objection. MR. COHEN: Let me rephrase the question. Q When did Philip Carey first begin utilization of these paper masks for insulators? I And if it includes Brand, please consider that. A I'm not sure it ever happened when we were Philip Carey Company. Q Okay. A But like I say, we started being aware of the problem somewhere in the late sixties where there was a heavy concentration, obvious to the eye, of dust, not only from asbestos, but any type of dust, we started using masks. y&rt/etf S&Aaciaie&t, ^0rtc>. Stewart ** 126 1Q Okay. And what time period are you talking about? 2A Either 1969 or 1970. 3Q And who defined what was a heavy concentration of 4 asbestos dust to the insulator? 5A Our Field Superintendent by his knowledge of the 6 job, when we sent the materials to the job, would include 7 the masks. _ 8Q And do you know whether a mask was provided or 9 available for every insulation worker or only certain 10 insulation workers? 11 A We sent from the office enough masks for every 12 insulation worker. | 13 Q And these were paper masks? 14 A Originally they were a rubber mask with a removable 15 and replaceable filter. They got to be so heavy and so 16 hot that.the men refused to wear them. Then we went over 17 to the lighter weight so-called paper masks. 18 Q So it's your testimony that sometime beginning in the i.t 19 late sixties, whenever a supervisor at a particular job 20 site would make the determination that there was a heavy 21 concentration of asbestos dust, that supervisor would then 22 order paper masks out for a particular job? 23 MR. HAASE: I object. 24 MR. MEELEY: I object to that. Stewart PAGE 127' 1 MR. HAASE: I think he said heavy dust. 2 MR. COHEN: Heavy dust. 3A Yes. 4Q And that dust could be asbestos, it could be wood 5 dust? 6A We didn't really know the content of the dust. It 7 was a visual heavy dusty condition. 8Q Okay. What other steps were taken from the late 9 sixties up to and including the present date by Philip 10 Carey and/or Brand to react to the knowledge that you've 11 testified to regarding health hazards? 12 A As I previously said, about two years ago we started 13 issuing complete body coverage in addition to the masks. 14 Q Now, was there ever discussion had by either PICA 15 or NICA -- 16 And do you understand what I mean when I 17 use the term "NICA"? 18 A Right. 19 Q -- of health hazards that may exist to persons 20 other than insulators at a particular job site? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Okay. And specifically, what types of persons were 23 discussed as potentially or being at risk in having the same 24 health hazard? Stewart PAGE 128 1A Well, other workmen in the immediate area -- 2Q Okay. 3A -- where we might be making the dust in either 4 applying or removing asbestos. 5Q Do you know whether plasterers were specifically 6 discussed? 7A I don't think so. - 8Q How aboutwelders? 9A Possibly. 10 Q Can you recall any other groups that you are 11 including in persons who may have been exposed besides the 12 insulators? 13 A Yes, the general trades that we usually work around 9 14 pipe fitters and steam fitters. I guess those are the two 15 primary ones. 16 Q And to your knowledge, what was done, if anything, 17 by Philip Carey and/or Brand to make these types of individuals aware of the health hazard that you recognized 19 with respect to asbestos insulators? 20 A Well, the areas were roped off and rather large 21 signs were posted around the perimeter in an effort to keep 22 other people out of the area. 23 Q How about persons that were working along with 24 asbestos insulators that were within a roped area? dkC&n/etf W JZh&acj/i/eA,, J&tc. ^ Stewart 129 PAGE 1A About all we did was go to their supervisory people 2 and make them aware that there could be a hazard. 3Q Was this a uniform practice followed by Philip 4 Carey on every job where asbestos was being utilized? 5A To the best of my knowledge, yes. 6Q Did Philip Carey and/or Brand ever advise the 7 workers themselves, to your knowledge, who were not 8 insulators of these health hazards? 9A 10 Q I don't think so. I have no knowledge really. Now, you mentioned in the seventies that counsel for 11 PICA advised you that health examinations should be given. 12 A Right. 13 Q At that time who was counsel for PICA? 14 A Myron Jacoby. 15 MR. BRUCH: Say again, please. 16 THE WITNESS: Myron Jacoby. 17 Q And do you know who Mr. Jacoby was associated with? ! 18 A He has his own -- had his own law firm, he is now j 19 deceased. 20 Q Okay. And where was that law firm? 21 A It's in the -- oh, boy, the building right across 22 from the Union League. What's that building? The Fidelity ) 23 Building. 24 Q And for what period of time, as best you recall. Stewart PAGE 130 1 was Mr. Jacoby counsel for PICA? 2A From 1957 until the time he died. 3Q And when was that? 4A About two years ago. 5 His son Fred has assumed that role now. 6Q Are you aware of any other counsel to PICA other 7 than Mr. Jacoby and his son Fred? 8A No -- possibly other people in his firm. He had 9 several other associates in his firm. 10 Q Are you aware of whether members of PICA currently 11 sit as representatives to any Unions or on any Union boards? 12 A Yeah. Well, there is a Joint Trade Board. 13 Is that what you're referring to? 14 Q Okay. And describe for me what the Joint Trade 15 Board is. 16 A It's three members from the -- each from the 17 Contractors Association and from the Union whose duties are 18 to administer the contract, the Union agreement contract. 19 Q And would that include all aspects of a particular 20 contract with a given Union, as best you know? 21 A Well, it is with a specific Union, Local 14. 22 Q Okay. And are you aware of whether the members of 23 PICA to the Joint Trade Board have counsel? 24 A Same counsel, only there the Union is all -- they do 1 dbufonJetf S&A,aciae6>, J?nc-. Stewart PAGE 131 1 not have counsel present at their meeting. 2Q So to the best of your knowledge, Mr. Jacoby's son 3 and any members in that firm would represent members o3f 4 PICA who sit on the Joint Trade Board? 5A That's correct. 6Q Okay. Other than Mr. Jacoby's son and any members 7 of that firm, are you aware of any other law firm that 8 represents members of PICA on the Joint Trade Board? 9A There is none. 10 Q Are there any other Boards or groups that members 11 of PICA sit on in conjunction with members from any 12 particular Union? . 13 A Only as Trustees of the Welfare Plan and the 14 Pension Plan. 15 Q And to your knowledge, how many members of PICA sit 16 on that Board or Trusteeship? 17 A Four, and I'm one of them. 18 Q And is there counsel that represents PICA members 19 sitting on the Trusteeship? 20 A Yes, as well as counsel for the Union. 21 Q Okay. And who is counsel for the members of PICA? 22 A 23 Jacoby's firm. In fact, the meetings are often held in 24 their office. Stewart PAGE 132 1Q Are you aware of any other firm or attorneys that 2 represent PICA on this Trusteeship? / 3A We have no other attorneys representing for 4 anything. 5Q Are themanufacturers alsomembers of the Trustee 6 ship with the Union? 7 -A No. 8Q Arethey members of the Joint TradeBoard? 9A No. 10 Q Are you aware of any relationship between any 11 manufacturer or supplier and Unions? 12 A Not to my knowledge. 13 Q Mr. Stewart, I'd like to show you a portion of 14 Answers that were filed in this suit by Johns-Manville to 15 Interrogatories that were filed by Mr. and Mrs. Fluharty, 16 specifically Interrogatory No. 3. That's contained on 17 Page 3 of the Answers to Interrogatories. 18 And just take a few minutes and look at 19 that. 20 (Pause.) 21 Q Now, am I correct in saying that Page 3 of the 22 Answers to Interrogatories purports to depict three separate 23 warnings or notices? 24 MS. KENNEY: Objection to the form. dbutftn/eif SzJLiacta/eA,, J?n&. Stewart 133 PAGE 1 MR. HAASE: Four. 2 MR. COHEN: I said three. I'm sorry, four. 3Q Would you describe for me what Page 3 purportedly 4 represents to you. 5 MS. KENNEY: Objection to the form. 6A Represents the productcontainsasbestos and it may 7 be harmful. 8Q All right. Now, am I correct that there are four 9 separately grouped labels or warnings? 10 A Correct, correct. 11 Q Now, with respect to the firstone, itsays, and 12 I'm quoting, "This product contains asbestos fiber. 13 Inhalation of asbestos in excessive quantities over long 14 periods of time may be harmful." 15 Have I correctly read the first two sen 16 tences? 17 A You certainly have. 18 MS. KENNEY: Let me note an objection. 19 I object to counsel reading in Interrogatories, 20 Answers to Interrogatories, and I object to showing 21 the witness this Interrogatory as being -- 22 MR. HAASE: This Interrogatory Answer? 23 MS. KENNEY: This Interrogatory Answer. 24 -- as being -- no foundation has been laid dkCfan/etf S4buir/s*/ed', jfino. Stewart PAGE 134 1 and it is irrelevant. 2 MR. COHEN: Let me say, first of all, these 3 are Answers of Johns-Manville and are^pleadings of 4 record in this particular matter, I think. 5 MS. KENNEY: I understand that, Mr. Cohen. 6 I'm just noting ray objection for the record. 7 BY MR. COHEN: - 8Q Now, let's get back. 9 And I'd like to ask you with respect to the 10 second line beginning "Inhalation of asbestos fiber..." -- 11 Do you see where I'm referring to? 12 A 13 Q Exactly. -- can you tell me what an excessive quantity of 14 inhalation of asbestos is? 15 16 17 18 A MS. KENNEY: I object as asking the witness to interpret something that the witness has not written to answer that question. I really have no basis for making an opinion. 19 Q I'm sorry, could you repeat what you said? 20 A Yeah. I say I have no basis on which to form an 21 opinion, I don't know what amount would be excessive. 22 Q Okay. Now, am I correct that you were a Supervisor 23 for Philip Carey in the sixties? 24 A Yes. y&nluf yf S^JdAocta/eA,, Stewart 135 PAGE . 1Q And that you presently maintain a supervisory 2 position for Brand since its takeover of certain portions 3 I of Philip Carey enterprise? 4A That's correct. 5Q And you cannot define for me or tell me what in 6 your opinion an excessive quantity is with respect to 7 inhalation? 8 MS. KENNEY: Objection. 9 MR. BRUCH: Objection. 10 A I can only say if it's visible in the air, I would 11 say it's excessive. 12 Q Now, can you tell me with respect to this label, 13 it says, "Inhalation of asbestos in excessive quantities 14 over long periods...", can you tell me what a longer period 15 is? 16 MS. KENNEY: Objection. 17 MR. BRUCH: Objection. 18 MS. KENNEY: Let me note my objection to 19 this question. Mr. Cohen is asking the witness to 20 interpret something that was not written by the 21 witness, he's also calling for an opinion, an 22 expert opinion, he's also calling -- there's been 23 no foundation that the witness has ever seen this 24 before, that the witness has ever had any discussion sjbu&n/ey/ S^tutcuz/e^, Stewart PAGE 136 1 concerning these warning labels, and I object and 2 move to strike this entire line of questioning. 3 BY MR. COHEN: 4Q Have you ever, just to answer one part of Ms. 5 Kenney's objection, have you ever seen labels like this 6 before on any asbestos products? 7A Not that extensive, no. I've seen the first line 8 that says, "This product contains asbestos fiber." 9Q Okay. 10 MS. PENNELL: Excuse me. We don't have 11 that in front of us. 12 Is there more than one thing written on 13 that page? Are there a couple of labels? 14 MR. COHEN: There are four labels. 15 MS. PENNELL: Could you advise us -- 16 MR. COHEN: I'm reading from the first one, 17 the top one, and I'd like the record to reflect 18 that I'm showing Mr. Stewart labels that were put 19 on asbestos products by Johns-Manville that were 20 ultimately or supposedly reached asbestos insulators 21 who did not prepare the warning labels, who had no 22 prior conversations about them, and I'm asking 23 Mr. Stewart to interpret for me these labels. 24 MR. TREVELISE: Objection to the last Stewart 137 page . 1 statement. 2 MR. BRUCH: Objection to your statement. 3 MR. COHEN: You all object. It's a response 4 to the objection that was raised by Ms. Kenney. 5 MS. KENNEY: Which only strengthens my 6 objection. 7 BY MR. COHEN: _ 8Q Now, it says, going down to the last paragraph, it 9 says, "If adequate ventilation control is not possible, wear 10 respirators approved by the U. S. Bureau of Mines for 11 pneumoconiosis producing dust." 12 Did I correctly read that? 13 A You did. 14 MS. KENNEY: Objection. 15 MR. COHEN: I think in order to not burden 16 the record, you have a continuing objection and it 17 can entire to the benefit of everybody during this 18 questioning. 19 MR. HAASE: As long as you're referring to 20 the Interrogatory Answers? 21 MR. COHEN: Right. 22 Q Would you tell me in relation to the handling of 23 asbestos what adequate ventilation is? 24 MS. KENNEY: Objection for the reasons dby&n/etf & SjhtuxuaJeA,, jPnc,. Stewart 138 PAGE stated previously. MR. COHEN: Anne, can we just agree you will object -- MS. KENNEY: No. I don't know when your objectionable line of questioning is going to cease and desist. MR. COHEN: Can we just say as long as I am utilizing this particular document in any form to ask him any question, that you have reserved a continuing line of objection? MR. HAASE: The form of the question. MR. COHEN: To the form of the question. MS. KENNEY: To the form of the question. MR. COHEN: To the utilization of the docu ment. Okay? I'll signify to you when in my opinion I'm through with this and I will go on to a different area. Okay? I think it will be a lot easier. _ MS. PENNELL: Mitchell, just for the record, is this quiz just to see his impressions, or what are you trying to do here? MR. COHEN: Well, I'm trying to elicit what 24 I consider discoverable material in this quiz. Stewart 139 PAGE 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2Q Would you define for me what the term "adequate ' 3 ventilation control" means with respect to that particular 4 warning label? 5A To me that means if there is visible dust in the air. . 6 the ventilation is inadequate. 7Q Now, would you tell me what type of respirator is 8 being discussed with respect to a respirator being approved 9 by the U. S. Bureau of Mines? 10 A I cannot give you specific model numbers. 11 Q Okay. Do you -- I'm sorry. | 12 A I think during that period we were talking about 13 rubber type respirators with replaceable filters on them. 14 Q To your knowledge, would that include paper masks? 15 A I don't know whether it did back that far ago or 16 not. I know they are acceptable now. 17 Q Now, would you tell me what pneumoconiosis means? 1 \ 18 A I presume it means lung cancer. | 19 Q In your opinion, can pneumoconiosis be anything 20 other than lung cancer? 21 A I'm not a doctor, I don't know. 22 Q And can you tell me what a pneumoconiosis-producing ^ 23 dust is? 24 A Probably any dust. dkCftinleif If SS^Macta/e^, *$ne>. j Stewart PAGE 140 1Q Okay. Now, I'd like to go down to the second 2 label, and again the first paragraph. 3 If you would read it to yourself, I would 4 again ask you the same questions with respect to the term 5 "excessive quantities" and "over long periods." 6 Would your answers be any different than 7 they were to the question on the first warning label? 8A Identical. 9Q Now, again I would like to ask you, where the wordinc 10 says that the breathing of excessive quantities over long 11 periods of time may be harmful, would you tell me what 12 harmful meaans as used in that context? I 13 A To me it meant it would affect your lungs, probably 14 to the point of giving you cancer. 15 Q Now, does it mean anything else to you other than 16 the fact that it could affect your lungs to the point of 17 giving you cancer? i 18 A No. 19 MS. KENNEY: I would state my continuing 20 objection to this line of questioning, adding 21 another reason, you are also leading the witness, 22 23 24 Q to my previous reasons. I'm including all my previous reasons in objecting to the form and all. Let's go down to the third label now. S&ZiAacta/iM*, J&ic. Stewart PAGE _142_ 1 Can you describe for me what the words 2 "serious bodily harm" mean as used in context with that 3 particular warning label? 4A 5Q 6A To me it still means lung damage. What particular types of lung damage? I can only think of one, that's cancer. 7Q Okay. And can you tell me whether your answer 8 includes cancers to other portions of the body other than 9 the lung? 10 A I don't think so, Idon't think itdoes dothat. 11 Q And again, as to the lastlabel, wouldyour answer 12 be any different with respect to the use of the words 13 "serious bodily harm" -- 14 A 15 Q No. -- than they were previously? 16 A No. 17 Q And the last paragraph on that warning label says, 18 "Smoking greatly increases the risk of serious bodily harm." * 19 Did I read that correctly? 20 A Yes, you did. 21 Q And as to that, again would your definition or 22 the meaning of the words "serious bodily harm" in that 23 context be any different than what you've testified to 24 previously? sMtuyfanley, If SZh&ocuzi&X', jfino.  ^ - ^ Stewart PtfiS *142 1 A No, again lung damage. 2 MR. COHEN: Let's take five minutes. 3 (A short recess is called at 11:10 A.M.) 4 (Deposition resumed at 11:30 A.M.) 5 BY MR. COHEN: .6 Q Mr. Stewart, this morning you brought certain 7 documents and records with you. Is that correct? 8A That's correct. 9Q I'd like to show you what I would like to have 10 marked for identification purposes as Stewart-2 and 3 and 11 ask if you would identify them. I want you to take a look 12 at them and identify them for us. f -4 13 (Handwritten list of jobs and materials i 14 is marked Stewart Exhibit 2 for identification.) 15 (Handwritten list entitled Shipping Dates 16 is marked Stewart Exhibit 3 for identification.) 17 BY MR. COHEN: | 18 Q Mr. Stewart, I'd like to show you, and then just j 19 clarify a point, what has been marked as proposed Exhibits 20 Stewart 2 and 3 for identification and ask if you would 21 look at those exhibits and describe what each of them is. 22 MR. COHEN: And for the benefit of counsel. 23 when these documents were prepared, the ones that 24 you have, they were stapled together, so you have Stewart 143 -------- 1 one sheet, one group of documents. The things that 2 Mr. Stewart will be looking at that are marked as 3 Stewart Exhibit No. 2 begin with the fourth page 4 of the group that you have. Now, the exhibit that 5 Mr. Stewart has in front of him that is marked as 6 Stewart Exhibit No. 3 is made up of the first three 7 sheets of paper of the group that you have. 8 Is there any question about that? 9 BY MR. COHEN: 10 Q All right. Now, Mr. Stewart, would you look at 11 Exhibits 2 and 3 and tell us what they are. ft* 1 12 A Okay. Exhibit 2 is a list of all the jobs, to the j 13 best of our knowledge, that Fluharty worked on for Brand | 14 during the time in question and they -- it lists the 15 materials that were shipped to the job. Exhibit 3 is a 16 list of the same jobs that shows dates on which those jobs 17 were done, and I assume the dates are shown from our 18 shipping documents or the last return from the job of the 19 materials. I think that's the way we identified the dates. J 20 Q Okay. Now, with respect to Exhibits 2 and 3, will 21 you tell us from what records, if you know, they were 22 prepared? 23 A From the individual job folders in which we keep all 24 the records pertaining to the on-site work for each job. Stewart page 144 Q Okay. And that would be as to both exhibits? A Right. Q And were those documents prepared by you or at your direction? A At my direction. Q And did you bring those with you thismorning? A Yes. Q Now, with respect toStewart ExhibitNo. 3, as I look at it, the earliest dates are for the calendar year 1972. A That's correct. Q Okay. Can you tell me where records would be for 13 any jobs worked on by Mr. Fluharty from the time Brand took 14 over the Contracting Units of Philip Carey up to and 15 including those portions of 11972 that may not be here? 16 A In Philip Carey jobs, all the records were sent 17 down to Cincinnati to Philip Carey's headquarters. All the 18 Brand records are in our office in Essington. 19 Q If the job began as a Philip Carey job and went i 20 into the changeover period with Brand, whose records would 21 they be considered? 22 A Philip Carey. 23 Q So they would have been shipped back to Ohio? 24 A That's correct. Stewart PAGE 145 Q Now, the same question with respect to Stewart 2 Exhibit No. 2, if there were jobs prior to the takeover 3 of Philip Carey by Brand that are not here, where would 4 they be, to the best of your knowledge? 5A Same place. 6Q Okay. And am I correct that the documents and 7 records from which Exhibits 2 and 3 were prepared are - 8 presently in Essington? 9A That's correct. 10 Q Now, if there are no listings of jobs from 1970 11 until 1972 that were Brand jobs, do you have any reason for 12 accounting as to why they would not be on these exhibits? 13 A They would either be jobs which would be Philip 14 Carey jobs which we completed or that Fluharty didn't 15 work for us at the time in question. 16 Q Okay. So to the best of your knowledge, all Brand 17 jobs that were begun as Brand jobs and finished as Brand 18 ~ are presently before you. Is that correct? . 19 A That's correct. 20 Q Okay. Now, I'd also like to show you what I would 21 like to have marked as Stewart Exhibit No. 4, and I'd like 22 to have you identify for me what proposed Exhibit No. 4 is. 23 (Original Payroll Record of Daniel Fluharty 24 is marked Stewart Exhibit 4 for identification.) t'fytfi&je' If Stfh&aciate&r, ^nct. Stewart 146 PAGE 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2Q Now, would you first tell us what Exhibit No. 4 3 purports to be and where it came from? 4A It is our Payroll Record. This is the document from 5 which paychecks are produced. 6Q And is that a document of Brand Insulations? 7A _ Yes, it is. 8Q And does Brand Insulations make and prepare such 9 records in its ordinary, routine course of business? 10 A Yes, for every employee. 11 Q And is it the ordinary custom and practice of Brand 12 to make records such as Exhibit No. 4 that you have before 13 you? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And how were those particular records obtained by 16 you? 17 A Just went to the file and pulled them out. We have 18 a complete file for every employee. 19 Q Okay. And would you tell us what relationship there 20 is, if any, between Exhibits 4, 2 and 3? 21 A The only relationship is that Exhibit 4 would 22 indicate the time period during which Fluharty worked for 23 Brand. 24 MR. COHEN: Off the record. dkC&nduf S^AHocta/e.x, J?rto. _. . Stewart 147 PAGE 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 MR. COHEN: I'd like to ask if it's agree- 3 able with counsel, Mr. Stewart wants to maintain 4 the original of Exhibit No. 4 at Brand's offices. 5 I have one Xerox copy that I would like him to 6 authenticate and then we would make the substitution 7 with an understanding, obviously, that the original 8 would be available at anytime for purposes of this 9 litigation. 10 Is there any objection to that? 11 . 12 13 MS. KENNEY: MR. MEELEY: No. . They're 3ust payroll records? MR. COHEN: Yes, these are payroll records. i | 1 14 BY MR. COHEN: 15 Q Just so there's no problem with the record, I'd 16 like to show you a Xerox copy that I'm going to have marked 1 17 as Stewart Exhibit No. 5, Mr. Stewart, and I want you to | 18 look at it and compare it with Exhibit 4, and I just have 5 19 two questions I want to ask. 20 A I did do that previously page by page and it is an 21 exact copy. 22 Q That's right, I did ask you. Am I correct? 1 23 A Right. 24 Q And it's your testimony that the Xerox copy that we tsMcC&fUetf If Szh&acta/ea.-, ^0ru>. :d K -.A Stewart page Ok!.* 1 will have marked as Stewart Exhibit 5 accurately and 2 authentically is a reproduction of the original document 3 that you have before you marked Stewart 4? 4A That's correct. 5 MR. COHEN: I'd like to have the Xerox copy .6 marked, and with there being no objection, make a 7 substitution for purposes of the deposition. 3 (Xerox copy of Payroll Record of Daniel 9 Fluharty is marked Stewart Exhibit 5 for identifica 10 tion .) 11 MR. COHEN: If there's no objection, I'm 12 going to ask Ruth, the Court Reporter, to duplicate g 13 this and whenever copies are obtained, you'll have 14 a copy of this as an exhibit. 15 I'll have to ask counsel to bear with me 16 for a minute. 17 (Pause.) 18 BY MR. COHEN: 19 Q Now, I'd like to ask you to look at Exhibit No. 2, 1 20 and on the upper left-hand column it says "PA-140 Temple." 21 Would you tell us what that means? 22 A that PA is the designatipn for our Philadelphia 23 Branch Office, the 140 is our job number. 24 Q All right. And Temple would refer to what? dbC&n/uf rtf Szhutcia/e^ jfnc,. Stewart 149 PAGE 1A Temple is the job itself, the location. 2Q And do you know what that Temple specifically 3 refers to? 4A It's one of the new facilities at Temple University, 5 I'm not sure which one. 6Q Okay. Now, underneath that category designation 7 you have a listing of the number of products. Is that 8 correct? 9A That's correct. 10 Q All right. Now,referring youover toExhibit No. 3, 11 the fifth grouping down, it also says "PA-140 Temple." 12 A 13 Q Same job. Okay. Andthe dates ofJanuary 3,1973, through t 14 September 3, '73, would be the beginning and ending dates 15 of that complete job? 16 A That was the first time material was shipped to the 1 17 job and the last time either material was shipped or the ] 18 return goods came back, if there were any. 19 Q Now, with respect to that job at Temple, I'd like 1 A 20 to ask you several questions. 21 First of all, would you go down that 22 particular list and tell me what products, if any, are 23 products of Johns-Manville that you have knowledge of? 24 MS. KENNEY: Objection. V Sikitic/afed,, Stewart 150 PAGE ________ 1A The fourth one from the bottom, Thermobestos Pipe 2 Covering. 3Q Are you aware of any other products? 4A That's the only one I can identify. 5Q Are you familiar with Thermobestos? 6A Yes. 7Q And what is the basis of your experience with 8 Thermobestos? 9A Same as all the other materials, from having sent 10 them to the jobs and seen them applied. 11 Q Is Thermobestos an asbestos-containing product? 12 A I don't think so. It's a calcium silicate material. 13 I know at present it does not contain asbestos. 14 Q Okay. Let me ask if you know, since we are talking 15 about the 1973 period, in this job, do you know whether 16 Thermobestos contained any asbestos fiber? 17 MR. HAASE: At that time? 18 MR. COHEN: At that time. 19 A To the best of my knowledge it did not, to the 20 best of my knowledge. 21 Q Now, would you go down that list and product by 22 product identify, to the best of your knowledge, who the 23 manufacturer was of the product? 24 MR. HAASE: Do you mean the Temple job? <^ictSF SSiuMCiaieA'. jfnC'. Stewart 151 PACE 1 MR. COHEN: The Temple job. 2 MR. INGERSOLL: Could we maybe cut things 3 short if he can identify anything on there that 4 had asbestos in it? I would imagine you're not 5 interested in non-asbestos material or some other 6 material. 7 MR. COHEN: Yes, I think that's a good 8 suggestion. 9Q Go down that list and tell us what products, to the 10 best of your knowledge, contained asbestos, irrespective 11 of in what form or quantity, and we'll discuss that 12 particular thing separately. 13 MR. HAASE: For that job at that time. 14 A 15 job. To the best of my knowledge, there are none on that 16 MR. HAASE: Mr. Stewart, you understand he's 17 asking for that job at that time? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 A To the best of my knowledge, none. 20 Q So it's your testimony there are no asbestos 21 products utilized, to the best of your knowledge, on that 22 Temple job as of 1973? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q Now, the second job shown is Philadelphia Electric, m " ^ Stewart PAGE 152 Job Number 295 on Exhibit No. 2. 2 Do you see that? 3A Yes. 4Q Okay. And that has boundaries of June 8, 1972, 5 through March 14, 1973. 6 Would you again go down that list and tell 7 us what products, if-any, to the best of your knowledge. 8 contained asbestos at that period of time that we're talking 9 about? 10 A I find the third one from the bottom, which is 11 pretty obvious. Asbestos Cloth, and I cannot say for sure ,, that that was in fact Asbestos Cloth, but more than likely 13 it was. 14 Q Well -- 15 A The reason for the difficulty is that at that time 16 we were trying -- trying to and I thought had made the 17 switchover to completely eliminating asbestos and we were 18 in fact substituting Fiberglass Cloth where the specs 19 called for Asbestos Cloth, and that may or may not have 20 been the case on this job, I do not know. 21 Q Let's take the records as you produced them, and 22 that says Asbestos Cloth. 23 A All right. . 24 Q At that time, from what manufacturers or suppliers S&iAncia/e&', Stewart 153 PAGE did you receive Asbestos Cloth? MS. KENNEY: Objection. A It could have been any one of several. Q Okay. And who would the several have been? A Raybestos-Manhattan; American Textile, Amatex out in Norristown. I think they were the two main sources that we were buying from. Q Can you think of any lesser sources? A There was another one, I can't remember for sure whether it was Goodyear or Goodrich, but one of those companies were making an Asbestos Cloth. 3 $ 13 Q Let me ask you, to the best of your knowledge, does j 14 Four Penn Center contain asbestos? 15 A Not to the best of my knowledge. 16 Q Now, going through, on the second page, marked 17 354, Hercules, and again going to Exhibit No. 3 it is the 18 second listing of a job from November 3, 1972, until 19 February 2, 1973, I'd like you to go down that list and 20 tell me what products, if any, to the best of your knowledge, 21 contained asbestos at that time. 22 A 23 Q Again there's Asbestos Cloth shown. Would the suppliers to Brand of Asbestos Cloth 24 be any different from those that you've just testified to? . * Stewart ' 154 1A No. 2Q How about under Asbestos Cloth, it says Kaylo? 3A Kaylo, that's a calcium silicate pipe covering and 4 to the best of my knowledge contains no asbestos. 5 MR. HAASE: Mr. Stewart, you'd better use the _ 6 proper tense. .7 Do you mean contained? 8 THE WITNESS: Contained or contains, either 9 one. 10 MR. HAASE: All right. . 11 BY MR. COHEN: 12 13 Q A Were you aware that Kaylo ever contained asbestos? Yes, I think it did at one time. j I j 14 Q Okay. And are you aware of what time Philip Carey, 15 if in fact it did, removed asbestos from Kaylo products? 16 MR. TREVELISE: Objection. 17 A Philip Carey didn't make Kaylo to begin with. 18 Q I'm sorry, let me go back and ask the question 19 again. - 20 Are you aware of what time asbestos was 21 removed from Kaylo products? 22 A I cannot be specific, no. I know most manufacturers | 23 removed it either in the late sixties or the early seventies. 24 Q Now, looking down to the J. C. Penney job, and that xdby&nlufr V S$teacia/e&>, J?n&. Stewart 155 PAGE 1 was. from April 27, 1972, until August 28, 1973, would you 2 go down and tell us what products contained asbestos at 3 that time, to the best of your knowledge? 4A I see none on that job. 5Q Job No. 359, Philadelphia Electric, the Schuylkill 6 Station, and that goes from November, 1972, until August 7 of 1973? 8A Right. The last two items apparently did contain 9 asbestos; however, they were items that were furnished to 10 us by Philadelphia Electric, I have no knowledge where they 11 came from. 12 Q What does R/M mean when you're talking about 13 asbestos tubing, commercial grade asbestos tubing? 14 A It probably means Raybestos-Manhattan. We probably 15 identified it from the carton it came in. 16 Q Do you know of your own personal knowledge whether 17 Raybestos-Manhattan did produce asbestos tubing at that 18 time? 19 A Yes, they.did. 20 Q Okay. And upon what is that knowledge based? 21 A Product brochures that we had in our file. 22 Q Did you ever had occasion on any other job during 23 any of your time with either Philip Carey or Brand to order 24 from Raybestos-Manhattan asbestos tubing? S&MtcicUea,, %$nc. Stewart 156 PAGE 1 MR. CILINGIN: Objection. 2A I'm not sure. I know they made it, I know we did 3 buy it on occasion; whether we ever purchased it from 4 Raybestos, I'm not sure. 5Q 6A Would you tell us what an asbestos boot is. This is where a breaching went into the big tall 7 stack down at Schuylkill Station, and it had pulled out, 8 there had been enough movement that pulled out the concrete, 9 and they provided an asbestos boot that we put around it 10 to seal the thing up. And it was prefabricated or premolded, 11 flexible, similar to a very, very heavy asbestos cloth. 12 Q And aside from asbestos cloth, what other asbestos 13 product was utilized in the making of this boot? 14 A To the best of my knowledge, none. We didn't make 15 it, it was furnished to us in a prefabricated form. 16 Q Okay. Do you know if any manufacturers were 17 distributors of the asbestos boots at that time? 18 A I have no knowledge. 1 19 Q And how would an asbestos boot be attached? 20 A With the two first products at the top of that list, 21 Colmadurgel and Quartzite Aggregate. Colmadurgel is an 22 epoxy r.esin, it was mixed with the Quartzite Aggregate to 23 make it a thick cement type product. 24 Q Now, you have Job No. 354, Hercules Powder, that V SzlbU3ciae&. Stewart PAGE 1 began on November, 1972, and ended in February, 1973, 2 according to -- 3 MR. INGERSOLL: To keep the record clear. 4 is that a different job or is it the same job. 5 354 here and 354 here? 6 MR. COHEN: It was a -- 7 THE WITNESS: It's two separate jobs at 8 Hercules -- now, wait a minute, back up. It's got 9 the same job number. 10 MR. INGERSOLL: It has the same job number. 11 THE WITNESS: The gal must have made a a mistake, it must be the same job. 1 13 BY MR. COHEN: 14 Q Let's go back for a minute. 15 I previously asked you when referring to 16 Page 2 of Exhibit 2 about the Hercules job. 17 I'd like you now also to look over 1 3 18 diagonally on that same page and tell me what products, if jj 19 any, contained asbestos. A 20 A None. 21 Q Now, let's go back to Page 1 of Exhibit No. 2, 22 Temple University. ^ 23 Are you familiar with that particular job? 24 A Personally? Sz/&acia/ea', J?no. Stewart 158 PAGE 1Q Yes. 2A No. 3Q Do you know any people who worked on that particular 4 job other than Mr. Fluharty? . 5A Other than Fluharty, no. I 6 Our records would indicate if there were 7 other people, I don't know. 8Q And where would those records be contained? 9A 10 Q In Essington. Are you aware of any persons who were Supervisors? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Okay. And of thatparticular job. I'm saying. 13 A 14 Q Yes. * Okay. And can you give me the names of any Super 15 visors from Brand on the Temple University job? 16 A Well, this will apply to all the jobs on this list, 17 Leo Romano was our Field Superintendent and he would know 18 specifically about each one of these jobs in the field. 19 Q Who else besides Mr. Romano? 20 A He's the only one. 21 Q Now, with respect to Philadelphia Electric, Mr. 22 Romano would have been the Field Supervisor? 23 A Right. 24 Q And can you tell me whether you know any individuals Stewart 159 PAGE other than Mr. Fluharty who worked at that particular job site? A No, I did no research into any other individuals other than Fluharty. Q Am I correct that the names of any other individuals besides Mr. Fluharty would be contained in records presently at Essington? A That's right. And that holds for all these jobs, I have no knowledge of any of them specifically. Q You have no knowledge of anyindividuals other than Mr. Romano as a Supervisor who was involved in any one of these jobs? A That's correct. Q Let's go back to Page 2 where we were, J. C.Penney, Job No. 389. And looking at Exhibit 3, that goes from April of 1972 until August of 1973. Would you tell me what products, to the best of your knowledge, contained asbestos? MR. HAASE: I thought he already answered that question. MR. INGERSOLL: Penney was none, he said. 24 389. Stewart 160 PAGE 1 MR. COHEN: Yes, he did. 2 MR. INGERSOLL: You ended up with the 3 asbestos boot on 359. 4. MR. COHEN: Okay, I'm sorry. 5 MR. CILINGIN: Does J. C. Penney go across .6 the column there? 7 MR. COHEN: No. We'll get to that one, 8 that's a special column. BY MR. COHEN: 9 ' ~ 10 Q You'll note on the lower portion, lower right-hand 11 portion of Page 2 of Exhibit 2 there is no name for that 12 particular job. 13 A Right. 14 Q Okay. Are you able to tell us now after utilizing 15 Exhibits 2 and 3 what job -- 16 A Yes. 17 Q -- should have been there? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. And what job would that be? 20 A Our Job No. PA-544, the name on it is Hercules. 21 Q And can you tell us how it is that you're able to 22 reconstruct the fact that Job No. 544 at Hercules should 23 be in that particular spot? 24 A By process ofelimination onExhibit No. 3. jfiruy. Stewart 160a PAGE__________ r2 I A *** 3Q 4A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 In other words, you compared Exhibit 3 with 2 -- Correct. -- and that was the only job unaccounted for? Correct. 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 a Stewart 161 PAGE MS. PENNELL: I'd like to note an objection at this time to this exhibit. So far we've had one error that was noticed, there are two Hercules 354 jobs; there is a PA-544 Hercules that does not appear on Exhibit 2 that the witness has now matched up by process of elimination; there's another discrepancy in a Hercules' job, on one list it's 56, on another list it's 560. There are obviously errors on this list and I object to the use of it and it being a representation of what is actually on the records unless those same discrepancies appear on the original records. MR. INGERSOLL: Job NO. 544 is identified on Page 4 of that exhibit also on the right-hand side underneath N.L. Ind. - PA-500. MR. TREVELISE: Which came first. Exhibit 2 or Exhibit 3? THE WITNESS: I think the same situation as to 354 -- you have to understand, we don't have this vast number of people in our office, we got two girls that are answering the phone, trying to do payroll records and doing this between time and -- MS. PENNELL: Mr. Stewart, I didn't mean to be critical of the list, I'm just making a statement .dhCfcnleg' Si/huiCtaAs&r, ^ru>. Stewart PAGE 162 1 for the record -- 2 MR. COHEN: She's making an objection. 3 MS. PENNELL: ~ that I object to the use of 4 it because it's not accurate. I don't mean that was 5 anyone's fault. 6 And, boy, if you saw my office -- 7 THE WITNESS: Okay. 8 MR. COHEN: Let me do this, I'd like to go 9 back to the record, it's being used for discovery 10 purpose at this juncture with the objection noted -- 11 MS. PENNELL: Yes. 12 MR. COHEN: -- and I'd still like to proceed 13 to go down the list. 14 BY MR. COHEN: 15 I ft 16 I A. I believe we were discussing the Hercules' job? Correct. 17 ft. That by process of elimination should be in that 18 lower right-hand corner. Am I correct? 19 A Correct. 20 ft Okay. 1 21 MR. INGERSOLL: Was it resolved? How about 22 the other 544 back here? 23 THE WITNESS: That's a continuation of the 24 same list. 8 1 3 Stewart PAGE 163 >1 MR. INGERSOLL: Okay, that I Coin live with. 2 Ql Okay. Now, would you look down that particular list 3 of the 544 Hercules -- 4 MR. HAASE: Starting with Daxcel Adhesive? 5 MR. COHEN: Right. 6 7 Ql MR. HAASE: All right. Now, in looking at the lower right-hand quadrant 8 of Page 2, then I'd like you also to include in that 9 perusal Page 4, the products listed under 544 Hercules, 10 and tell me of those products listed which, to the best of 11 your knowledge contained asbestos at that time? 1 ^ 12 A There is one again listed. Asbestos Cloth. 1 13 Qi And would your answer be any different as to the 14 manufacturer of the Asbestos Cloth other than what you've 15 previously testified to? 16 A No, same answer. 17 Ql Going on to Page 3 of the exhibit, you have Hercules ' 18 again. Job No. 435, which began in July of 1973 and 19 concluded in January of 1974. i i 20 Would you look down that list and tell us 21 whether any of those products, to the best of your knowledge, 22 contained asbestos at that time? | 23 A There's one listed as Careytemp Asbestos Cement. 24 I'm not sure what that product was. None other than that. S&&ac*ae&, | '' 4 _ Stewart ' 164 PAGE ) 1 Q. And Careytexnp Asbestos Cement would have been 2 produced -- 3A It, I think, is a form of an adhesive to hold two 4 pieces of Careytexnp together, and it might have contained 5 asbestos, although it was in a mastic form. 6 Q. Now, are you familiar with MW-50 cement? 7A Yes. ' 8 Ql And did that cement contain asbestos? 9A In its original form years ago, yes. 10 Q. Okay. And do you know at what point the inclusion 11 of asbestos in MW-50 was stopped? ^ 12 A My best guess is in the late sixties. | 13 Ql And that was a Philip Carey product? 14 A Yes. 15 Qi How about MW-100 cement? 16 A MW--1. 17 Ql . MW-1? 18 A I think that's the correct designation. 19 Qi MW-1? 20 A It's a similar type cement and the answer would be 21 the same as for 50. 22 Qi That was a Philip Carey product? | 23 A Yes. 24 Qi Are you familiar with MW, I believe it's 303? If S&Aar4/7/e&,, jfincr. a Stewart PAGE 165 1A 303 was an out-and-out asbestos cement, I believe, 2 it didn't -- didn't have the MW suffix to it. 3 Qi When you say out-and-out asbestos, can you 4 distinguish for me 303 Cement from an MW-1 or MW-50? 5 A. To the best of my knowledge, 303 was -- was known 6 as asbestos shorts, which was almost totally asbestos. 7 Ql Okay. And in what form did 303 Cement come? 8A In a powdered form. 9 Q. And can you tell me what MW stands for? 10 A Mineral wool. It has pellets of mineral wool in 11 there. 12 013 come? And in what forms did MW-50 and the MW-1 Cement 14 A Both in a powdered, semi-powdered form in bags. 15 Q. And how about 7M-90 Cement? 16 A That was an asbestos cement which was also 17 powdered. 18 Q. When you say an asbestos cement, are you stating 19 that it was a pure asbestos cement? 20 A It may have had something else in it, but the bulk 21 of the material was asbestos. 22 Qi And 7M-90 was a Philip Carey product? 23 A 24 Qt Yes. And to your knowledge, was the asbestos ever i Stewart 166 PAGE___________ in removed from 7M-90 Cement? 2 A. I don't think it could have been, that constituted 3 almost the entire product. 4 ft Okay. And would your answer be the same for the 5 303 Cement? 6 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 7 ft Does Philip Carey still product 7M-90 and 303 8 Cement? 9 A. Not to the best of my knowledge, I don't know. 10 MR. TREVELISE: I want a clarification. 11 We're not talking about anything on this 12 list? 13 MR. COHEN: No, I'm sorry, this does not 14 relate to the exhibit. 15 MR. TREVELISE: This does not relate to 16 PA-435? 17 MR. COHEN: No. I'm backtracking on 18 something else. 19 BY MR. COHEN: i 20 ft Now, of the products that were manufactured by 21 Philip Carey, can you tell me whether XL pipe covering 22 contained asbestos? 23 A. XL kind of predates me and I go back pretty far, 24 I don't know. 1 tyl/ibe/ If S&htoaciale&', jfnrno. Stewart PAGE 167 1 Q. How about Careycell pipe covering and board? 2 A. Careycell, yes, it did contain asbestos. 3 Ql Okay. And are you familiar or can-^ou tell us 4 whether that product is still manufactured? 5A To the best of my knowledge, no. 6 Qt Are you aware whether Careycell pipe covering and 7 board was used or up to what point that product was used? 8 MR. TREVELISE: By whom? 9 MR. COHEN: Used in the trade. 10 A It went out of fashion long, long time ago, I'd 11 say early to mid-sixties. 12 Q. How about Aircell pipe covering and board, did 13 that contain asbestos? 14 A 15 Ql 16 A Yes. And was that a Philip Carey product? Yes, they made it along with several other 17 manufacturers, made a similar product. 18 Ql And are you aware of whether or not Aircell pipe 19 covering and board isstill utilized today? . 20 A I don'tthink it is. 21 Ql Do you have any knowledge of approximately when 22 its use was stopped in the trade? 23 A 24 Q. In this area at least in the early sixties. How about Temcheck pipe covering and block, was S^uacioUte^, J?no. Stewart 168 PAGE___________ 1 that an asbestos product? 2 A. That was -- it had asbestos fibers in it as a 3 reinforcing, a small percentages^ it. 4 Ql Do you know whether that product is still used 5 today in the trade? 6 A. No, it's gone out of existence. 7 Ql Can you tell me approximately when that product 8 ceased being utilized in this area by the trade? 9 A. 10 Ql It has to be the late fifties or early sixties. How about Hi-Temp pipe covering and block, did 11 that contain asbestos? 12 A. As Philip Carey made it, yes. 13 Q. Okay. And can you tell me again whether that is 14 presently in use; and if not, your best recollection of 15 when it had ceased being used in this area by members of 16 the trade? A. 17 Well, Philip Carey no longer manufactures it, ' 18 Celotex, as they're known now, and to the best, of my | i | 19 knowledge it ceased in early to mid-sixties. 20 Ql I believe I just asked you Hi-Temp, am I right? 21 A. Right. 22 Ql All right. Careytemp pipe covering and block? 23 A. Careytemp in its original form had asbestos as 24 reinforcing in it, it was changed in, I'd say, early sixties I If JZhx&tua/eA,, J?n&. Stewart PAGE 169 1 or mid-sixties. 2 Ql 3A How about Fibrous Adhesive Bonding? Fibrous Adhesive Bonding does have asbestos fibers? 4 however, it's in a mastic form, it's not in a friable form 5 where it can be breathed. 6 Q. Is that presently being used today? 7A Several manufacturers make it and it is being 8 used. 9 MR. HAASE: Mr. Cohen, on being used, 10 do you mean on new installations? 11 MR. COHEN: Being used, period. 12 When I say the trade, I mean by asbestos 13 insulators in this area. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is. 15 MR. COHEN: Do you understand my use? \ 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. 17 MR. COHEN: I'm not trying to make a 18 distinction between rip out versus new, I'm 19 talking about being used for any purpose 20 whatsoever. 21 MR. HAASE: You would include in the use 22 new installation or rip out? 23 MR. COHEN: I'm just saying being used at 24 all in any context. S4h&aciafe&', J?n&. Stewart 170 PAGE___________ 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2 Qt Now, you said there were several manufacturers 3 other 4Aan Carey that made Fibrous Adhesive Bonding. 4 To the best of your knowledge, does 5 Celotex presently make Fibrous Adhesive Bonding? 6A I honestly do not know. 7& Okay. Are you aware of any other manufacturers 8 who made Fibrous Adhesive Bonding other than Philip Carey? 9A The one we used primarily is Benjamin Foster 10 Company, the local company. 11 Qt Do you know where they're located? 12 A I believe in Ambler. .| 13 MR. HAASE: You say use or used? j 14 THE WITNESS: Do use. 15 & And do you know whether the Foster Company is 16 associated with any other manufacturer, supplier or miner 17 of asbestos products? * 3 18 A I believe they are a subsidiary of Fuller. I can't | 19 identify it any better than that. 20 & Okay. Do you know where Fuller is located? 21 A I do not. 22 & Do you know whether Fuller is associated in any 23 way with any other entity that produces, mines, 24 distributes -- "Wiaet V' Sil^AacMxie^, Stewart 171 PAGE . 1A I have no knowledge of that company. 2 Qt Okay. Now, who besides the two that you've 3 mentioned? 4 A. I'm not sure, but I think Insulcoustic. 5 Q. Let me stop you for a moment. 6 Do you know where Insulcoustic is located? 7 A. Somewhere around Plainfield, New Jersey, up in 8 that area. 9 Ql Do you know whether Insulcoustic had any 10 relationship to any other manufacturer, miner, distributor 11 of asbestos products? 12 A. I don't think so. 13 Qt Okay. And are you saying that you presently get 14 Fibrous Adhesive Bonding from this company? 15 A We may on occasion. I don't myself buy the 16 materials, I have a man who does that, and I know most of 17 the pails that I see are from Foster Company. 18 Q. Okay. Now, are there any others that you can 19 think of, and I'm including any period of time that you 20 were with either Philip Carey or Bri^d? 21 A The only other one I can think of as a possible 22 source would be Childers Company, who makes a lot of 23 mastics and bond. 24 MS. PENNELL: I'm sorry, whom? If SMbuncta/eAr, jfru>. ,2 Stewart 1 MR. COHEN: Childers. 2 3 A. Do you know where Childers is located? Their headquarters is in Cleveland, they have a 4 local branch in Bristol, Pennsylvania. 5& Do you know whether Childers is associated with 6 any other entity that manufactures, mines or distributes 7 asbestos products? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 Q. Now, can you tell me the name or names of any 10 individuals who, while you were associated with Philip 11 Carey, actually went out and purchased or made agreements 12 to purchase various asbestos products for use by Philip 13 Carey? 14 MR. TREVELISE: Objection to the form 15 of the question. 16 A. You mean as a corporate thing or for local 17 branches? 18 & I'm sorry, for local use in this area. 19 MR. TREVELISEi Objection to form. 20 MS. PENNELL: Could we have the question 21 read back, please. 22 (The pending question is read by the 23 Reporter.) 24 A. My answer is, if there were any done, it would be isM&y&n/eut S&AacuzdiM, 173 PAGE___________ 3 Stewart 1 done at my direction. 2 Q. And to whom did you give a direction to? 3A We--had a succession of people who may have gotten 4 involved. Any one of the estimators could at some time 5 have initiated an order. 6 Ql And to whom would those orders have been directed 7 toward? 8 MR. TREVELISE: Objection to the form. 9A To any one of these suppliers. 10 Q. Now, could you give me the names of any estimators 11 that you can think of that may have performed that function 12 while you were with Philip Carey? 13 MR. TREVELISE: Objection to form. 14 MR. COHEN: Are these objections to the 15 form of the question? 16 MR. TREVELISE: Everything else is 17 reserved. 18 He seems to start out with an assumption. 19 You're saying if there were any and he didn't say 20 there were any, now you're continuing on. 21 MR. COHEN: Let me clarify that then. 22 Q. Do you ever have a recollection of ordering or 23 telling anyone to objtain products for -use for construction? 24 A That contained asbestos? c<u%in/eif tyker S&AAcuuafeu J&ic,. rI 174 PAGE___________ *4 Stewart 1 ft Yes. 2 A. Not for that reason. We may have bought a product 3 that contained asbestos if Philip Carey didn't have a 4 comparable product available to us. That would be the only 5 time we would go out in the market and buy a different 6 product to begin with, would be on an emergency basis, 7 ft Okay. What person would have performed that task? 8 A. Well, the only one primarily would have been a 9 man, George Epright, E-p-r-i-g-h-t. 10 MS. PENNELL: I'm sorry? 11 12 13 ft MR. HAASE: George Epright, E-p-r-i-g-h-t. MS. PENNELL: Thank you. * Do you know whether Mr. Epright is presently alive? 14 A Yes, he lives in the Norristown area, 15 ft 16 A 17 ft Do you know what he does at this point? He's retired. Now, let me bring you up to date. 18 Since Brand has performed certain 19 functions, since 1970, have you ever had occasion to 20 utilize asbestos products from a manufacturer or supplier? 21 A Only in the form of either Asbestos Cloth in early 22 days, or Fibrous Adhesive, which we continually use. 23 ft Now, when you're defining very early days, I'm 24 talking about at least 1970, I'm using the term Brand. sJicd&nbf/ W S4h&acicUe&,, Stewart A. Well, Brand only came on the scene in '70, so it 2 would have been, say, between '70 and '72. 3 ft And what person would have made an order for 4 Asbestos Cloth? 5A In the early years myself. 6 ft Okay. Can you tell me what company or companies 7 you would have ordered Asbestos Cloth from in the early 8 seventies? 9A Either Raybestos-Manhattan or Amatex, the ones 10 I previously listed as suppliers. 11 ft And subsequently? 12 A To the best of my knowledge, we have not bought 13 any Asbestos Cloth in the last four or five years, i 14 ft Can you recall any relabelingagreements that 15 Philip Carey had with any other manufacturer for 16 production of asbestos products? 17 MR. BASSER: Objection to form. 18 MS. PENNELL: I'm sorry, did you put a 19 time frame on this? A 20 A I have no personal knowledge of it, but I do think 21 that I did hear one time from somebody that there was a 22 reciprocal agreement between Carey and either Keene or 23 Baldwin-Ehret-Hill, whatever they were known at that time, 24 to manufacture cements in the closest facility. Each would 'sMcC&n/etf & &&ocicte, 1 Stewart 176 PAGE . 1 manufacture for the other. 2 Qt Do you know what type of cements are involved? 3 A. The MW-Is and MW-50. 4 Qt How about roofing paper? 5 A. Roofing paper we didn't hardly get involved with 6 at all. I know Carey had a plant in Perth Amboy, New 7 Jersey, that produced roofing paper. 8 Q. Would you know if there were any relabeling 9 agreements between the Perth Amboy Plant and Johns-Manvilie? 10 MS. KENNEY: Objection. 11 A. I would have no knowledge. 12 Qt Now, during the time that you were working for 13 Philip Carey, would you tell us how asbestos products were 14 transported out to particular job sites? 15 MR. TREVELISE: From where? 16 MS. PENNELL: Could we have a time frame? 17 MR. COHEN: I said throughout the period 18 of time that he was employed by Philip Carey. 19 MS. PENNELL: All over the country or here 20 or what? 21 MR. COHEN: I'm sorry, in this particular 22 area. 23 A. That would be the only area I would have any 24 knowledge of. dCcCfet/eif W S&hAaciae&/, J?nc>. 177 PAGE___________ 17 Stewart 1 Q. Right. You said that during the first deposition. 2A The same way we now transport materials to the job, 3 most times in the container they were originally received 4 by us from the manufacturer, put them on a truck and deliver 5 them to the job site. 6 Qi Do you have any knowledge of products, this is 7 while you were at Philip Carey, being removed from original 8 containers or packages prior to shipment from Philip Carey 9 to a job site? 10 A. Sure. 11 Q. Okay. And would you tell me how that came about? 12 A Okay. Well, if a job didn't require, say, a full 13 carton of material, it only needed a portion of the material 14 in that carton, we would take out the surplus and leave it 15 in the warehouse. 16 Q. And in what form then would the products going out 17 to a job site be transported? 18 A Well, either in the same carton that it came in or 19 a similar carton. 20 & Did you ever personally remove a product received 21 by Philip Carey and then place it somewhere else for 22 transportation? 23 A Yes, I did. I loaded a lot of trucks. 24 Q. Okay. And during the loading of the trucks, did i Stewart PAGE 178 1 you ever see any warning labels on any original containers 2 from any manufacturer? 3 MR. BRUCH: Would you reread the question, 4 please. 1 5 . (The pending question is read by the 6 Reporter.) 7 A. I cannot honestly say. 8 MR. BASSER: I'm going to note an 9 objection to the question. 10 A. r cannot say specifically that I did. 11 MR. BASSER: The objection is withdrawn. 12 A. I can't honestly say that I've specifically seen 13 any. There may have been labels on there. At the time 14 of loading the truck you're moving the cartons, you're 15 not reading labels other than pipe size and identify what 16 material's in there. 17 & Do you have any recollection of seeing warning 18 labels on the product itself once it was removed from the 19 original container? 20 A. To the best of my knowledge, that never occurred. 21 Q. Do you have any recollection of seeing names of 22 manufacturers or suppliers of products to Philip Carey 23 written on outside packaging? 24 A. Yes. iI > Stewart PAGE 179 1 MS. PENNELL: Could we have a time frame? 2 The whole time he was here in Philadelphia? 3 MR. COHEN: The whole time he was here 4 working for Philip Carey. 5 6 Q. Okay? MS. PENNELL: Okay. 7A Certainly. 8 Q. And do you recall at any time removing the contents 9 of the original package from the box and then having it 10 shipped to a job site? 11 ft. Yes. 12 Q. Now, on those instances where markings were present 13 on the original container, do you recall whether identifying 14 markings were contained on the product, asbestos products, 15 within the container? 16 A I'm sure it was not. 17 Qi You're saying you have no recollection of that 18 having occurred in your personal experience? 19 A I never saw an individual piece of pipe covering 20 labeled as to whether or not it had asbestos in it. 21 MR. TREVELISE: Would you read back the 22 last answer. 23 (The last answer is read by the Reporter.) 24 Qi The question that I would like to pose to you is, is&uy&n/ey, If ftih&aciae&, ^ru>. i 180 PACE_________ '.0 Stewart 1 did you ever see the name of a particular manufacturer on 2 the product itself once it was removed from a container 3 that may have contained the name of the manufacturer? 4 A. Only in one product. 5& What product was that? 6 A. That would be an Armstrong Armaflex, flexible 7 rubber-type material. - 8& Would you tell us what Careyflex is? 9A I almost described it completely when I said 10 Armaflex. 11 & 12 A 13 ft Okay. Similar material, Armaflex is what? I 14 A I don't know what the physical composition is, but 15 it's a flexible foam-type -- looks like foam rubber. 16 Qt To your knowledge, does it contain any asbestos? 17 A To my knowledge, none. 18 ft And therefore, would your answer be the same with 19 respect to Careytemp, that Careytemp does not contain 20 asbestos? 21 A I would not think so. 22 Q. Are you aware of any asbestos product manufactured 23 by Armstrong? 24 MR. INGERSOLL: Objection to the form of Stfhiecux/eM 3 181 PAGE 21 Stewart 1 question. 2 Do you mean forever, now, when he was 3 employed by Philip Carey? 4 MR. COHEN: That wasn't my question. 5 Let me get it out and then you can object to it. 6 MS. PENNELL: Before you go on to that, 7 I think in your question before you meant to say 8 Careyflex when you said Careytemp about to your 9 knowledge did that have asbestos. 10 THE WITNESS: I understood you to say 11 Careyflex. i 12 MR. COHEN: I thought I said that. i 13 If I said Careytemp, then I'm in error, I meant 14 Careyflex. 15 BY MR. COHEN: 16 Q. Are you aware of any asbestos product manufactured 17 by Armstrong during the period of time that you were with 18 Carey, Philip Carey? 19 A Not related to the insulation business. 20 Qi Okay. What products were you, while associated 21 with Philip Carey, aware that Armstrong manufactured which 22 did contain asbestos? 23 A Asphalt tiles for floors, some of the ceiling 24 products. c^Cty&n/etf Szhuxcta/ei', x^nc-. 3 Stewart PAGE 182 1& When you say some of the ceiling products, what 2 do you mean? 3 A. Suspended ceilings. 4 ft Like thetile-type things? 5 A. Correct. 6 ft Anything else? 7A No. - 8 I'm not even 100 percent sure that the 9 ceiling products contained asbestos, that's an assumption, 10 ft Now, let's go to the point at which you became 11 associated with Brand, and again I would ask you the same 12 questions with respect to, do you have personal knowledge 13 of products coming in from other manufacturers to Philip 14 Carey in individual containers having the name of the 15 manufacturer or distributor on the outside container? < 16 A You mean coming in to Brand? 17 ft Coming in to Brand. 18 A I cannot honestly say that I have ever been aware 19 of reading a warning label on the product, 20 ft No, let me stop you, I didn't mean warning label, 21 I mean a situation where an outside physical packaging of 22 an asbestos product contained the name of a manufacturer 23 on it. 24 A Oh, yes. 183 PAGE_____________ 23 Stewart 1 Qt Okay. 2A Wait a minute, I beg your pardon, not as an 3 asbestos product? an insulation product, yes, but not an 4 asbestos product. 5 Ql I'm talking about an asbestos product. 6 A. To the best of my knowledge, we did notbuy any 7 asbestos product -as Brand other than Asbestos Cloth and 8 Fibrous Adhesive. 9 Ql And you've already testified as to those. 10 Now, in the situations where you did 11 purchase Asbestos Cloth from either Amatex or Raybestos- 12 Manhattan -- 13 . MR. CILINGIN: Objection. 14 15 \ 16 17 18 19 MR. COHEN: Is there an objection? MR. CILINGIN: Yes, there is. Qt Have I accurately described the suppliers of those cloths? A Yes. Qi At the time you ordered those particular cloths, 20 can you tell us how they came packaged when received by 21 Brand? 22 A Usually on a roll and enclosed in some sort of a 23 burlap or, I think, paper first and then a burlap wrapping 24 over the outside. I 184 PAGE_____________ Stewart I 1& Do you recall that the paper or outside burlap 2 wrapping had any identification of the manufacturer of that 3 Asbestos Cloth? 4A Surely. 3 0- Okay. And with respect to Amatex Cloth, do you 6 have a specific recollection of there being an identifying 7 label or logo -- 8 9A Yes. Do you know what I mean when I say "logo"? 10 Q. ~ of Amatex on the outside wrapping? 11 A Either on the wrappings or as a tag attached to it, 12 yes. 13 & Attached to -- 14 A To the burlap wrapping to identify the package. 15 & Was there a tag ever attached to the Asbestos 16 Cloth itself identifying the manufacturer? 17 A I don't think so. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 , (Luncheon Recess is called at 12:30 P.M.) 20 21 22 23 24 i Stewart 185 PAGE _____________ (Deposition resumed at 1:35 P.M.) BY MR. COHEN: 3 --Q. Now, with respect to Asbestos Cloth that was 4 received with some sort of marking or logo of the manufacturer or supplier, is it your best recollection 6 that when that asbestos cloth reached the job site, that 7 there would be no identifying label or marking on it? 8 A. Yes. 9 Qt Is there any reason that you are aware of as to 10 why burlap or paper covering would be taken off of the 11 asbestos rather than shipping it to the job site with that 12 covering on it? 13 A Well, most times a specific job wouldn't require 14 the whole roll, so we were only shipping a portion of the 15 roll; and if it required a whole roll, it would go just 16 the way we received it. 17 Q. Now, these records that you have provided to us, 18 and I'm speaking now specifically of Stewart Exhibit No. 2, 19 I believe you testified that they were prepared from Brand 20 records showing products that were ordered for particular 21 jobs that are enumerated? 22 A That's correct. 23 Ct Okay. Now, are the documents that reflect the 24 goods ordered, were they Brand documents or were they the . //,: rtf Jhr. 186 PAGE . 26 Stewart 1 documents of the supplier or manufacturer that are being 2 kept by Brand? 3 A. For the most part Brand documents. 4 Ql Now, would there be available presently in 5 Essington the document of the manufacturer, supplier, who 6 would have shipped these particular products on these 7 respective jobs? 8 A. I'm not sure how long we retain those records. 9 I know we do retain them for a period of time, for whatever 10 our normal retention period is, yes. 11 Ql Now, with respect to the exhibit that was marked 12 Stewart Exhibit No.- 5, that being the payroll record for 13 Mr. Fluharty, would there be similar records kept for other 14 Brand employees? 15 A. For each and every employee. 16 Ql Okay. For each and every job that that particular 17 employee was involved with? 18 A. Yes. 19 Qi So that if one were to look at Brand records, it 20 could be determined every job that a particular employee 21 was assigned to from the point Brand took over up until, 22 let's include today even? 23 A. I am not sure that's 100 percent correct. I know 24 it's correct now because we're on computer and every week SZh*ac4ate&> Jfinc. PAGE 27 Stewart 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 . 20 21 22 23 24 we get a printout showing who worked on what job. That goes back for a period of about two and a half years. I am not sure of my own knowledge how we arrived at things prior to that. I assume that they could be produced somehow. ft Now, of the various jobs that are identified on Stewart Exhibit No. 2, do you have any personal knowledge as to which of those jobs were new construction or insulation as opposed to rip outs? A. It would appear from the list that they were all in the majority new work. There may have been some rip out involved in tying into existing work on any or all of them. ft Okay. Let me ask you specifically, if you would, to review Exhibit No. 2 and tell me of your own knowledge, without speculation, if you know, for instance, I'm picking this as hypothetical, that Temple University did involve new construction only, some rip out or total rip out, if you're able to? A. I have no specific knowledge that was totally one or the other. MR. HAASE: You mean for any job or that job? THE WITNESS: For any of these jobs. V S$ibaOGiafe&* jfnc. 1 Stewart PAGE 188 A. It would indicate to me that by shipping out new materials, the bulk of the work was new work. If it was rip-out work, it would be relatively no materials shipped to the job. Ql And if you'll notice, some of the jobs do show as few as three, four materials shipped out and in one instance on Job No. 4122, U. S. Steel, there was only one thing listed, that being calcium silicate, so what you're stating is that you have no knowledge? A. That's true. Ql Okay. Can you tell me who might possess that knowledge relating to the specific jobs that are identified on Stewart Exhibit No. 2? A. Mr. Romano would be the one most likely to know. Ql At that time you were with Philip Carey, do you know whether Philip Carey manufactured or produced spray asbestos of any sort? A. I ant sure the answer is yes; however, I was not 3 $ i 3 directly involved in that product. Ql Are you aware of the trade name or names utilized for spray asbestos by Philip Carey? A I'm not aware what their brand was called. Ql Now, subsequent to your becoming associated with Brand, did you ever have occasion or do you know of any I 189 PAGE 29 Stewart 1 occasion where spray asbestos was utilized on any 2 construction? 3 A. Right overhead in this building, 4 ft That being 4 Penn Center? 5 A. 4 Penn Center. 6 ft Do you have any knowledge as to whether, during 7 the construction of 4 Penn Center, there was ever a period 8 in which construction was ordered to halt? 9 A. _ Well, that was public record in the papers, yes. 10 ft And do you know what the reason for the cessation 11 of work for a period of time on this building was caused by? 12 A. 13 ft I really don't know. Do you recall whether it was related in any way to 14 alleged health hazards? 15 MR. MEELEY: Object to the form of the 16 question. 17 A My recollection of what I read in the newspapers, 18 yeah. 19 ft What is your recollection as to what you read in 20 the newspapers regarding the reason for halting construction 21 in this particular building? 22 A As I remember it, people passing by were liable 23 to inhale it, the same way people that were installing it, 24 and to my knowledge the City has outlawed that type S$\Ancta/e&>, Jnc. 190 PAGE 30 Stewart 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 *16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 application. ft Now, do you know whether insulators, welders, plasterers and others working in this building were issued any sort of protective clothing by -- NO. ft I'm sorry? A. I have no knowledge about that whatsoever. - MR. HAASE: Next time let's have the full question. THE WITNESS: Okay. MR. COHEN: I was going to say "by Brand", ft Your answer is the same as you just indicated? A Right. ft Do you know who would possess such knowledge? A If anyone, Mr.Romano. ft Are you familiar with the product called Limpid ? A I recognize the name as being a sprayed-on type asbestos, yes. ft Are you aware of the manufacturer of that product? A No, I am not. ft Now, you previously stated that you were prohibited, you meaning Philip Carey, and I assume subsequently Brand, were prohibited from conducting pre-employment physicals or physical exams for employees. Is that correct? Stewart PAGE 191 1 A. That's correct. 2 ft Would you now tell us the reason? 3 A. Well, the Local that these men belonged to, the 4 Union, would not allow it. 5 ft And what is the basis of your knowledge of that 6 statement? 7 A_ Because we sent out over a period of years 8 typewritten letters asking the men to have a physical and 9 at our expense and on which was a return card to send back 10 to the company saying when they would like to go, and to 11 this date we have not received a reply, 12 ft And when were these cards sent out? 9 13 A With the payroll starting about the year 1972, 14 and I'm not sure if that's exact date. 15 ft But in any event, it was, as best you can recall, 16 the early seventies? 17 A Yes. s 18 ft Now, what motivated Brand to send out these 19 notices in or about 1972? .1 20 A Well, we were then aware of the problem with 21 asbestos and we wanted to know, number one, if a man had 22 any indication of a lung problem; if so, we were going to 23 try to assign him to work in a less dusty atmosphere, 24 ft What occurred between 1968 and 1972 that makes you Stewart PAGE 192 1 say in 1972 you were then aware of a health problem? 2A Well, as I previously stated, we had had conversa 3 tions with competitors in Association meetings about similar 4 problems, we had read in the Asbestos Workers Journal 5 about a problem, it was just becoming more general knowledge 6 that there was a problem. 7 Qt If the knowledge contained in 1968 were not as 8 generally known, does that lessen the value of the knowledge? 9 MR. HAASE: Object to the form of the 10 question. 11 MR. COHEN: Strike that. 12 Qt Did the nature of the knowledge between 1968 and 13 1972 change in any respect regarding health hazards? j 14 A it only became cumulatively more evident to us that 15 there was a problem, just by repetition. 16 Qt Between 1968 and 1972, were there any discussions 17 anywhere that you were aware of regarding Dr. Selikoff? 18 A Yes. ' ! jj 19 Qt Would you tell me when and where you first became 20 aware of Dr. Seiikoff's name? 21 A When we read in the Asbestos Workers Journal about 22 the studies being done by him at Mount Sinai Hospital. 23 Qt This would have been in the late sixties? 24 A Late sixties, I -- c/McCfanJuf & &&ccicUe&>, J?nc. I PAGE 193 .3 Stewart 1 Qt do you know whether those articles referred to 2 studies and published medical reports dating back as far as 3 the twenties and thirties? 4 MR. MEELEY: I'd object to the form of 5 the question. 6 MS. PENNELL: Objection. 7A I don't remember, they may have. - 8 Qt Prior to 1968, was there any discussion between 9 Philip Carey and any other members of any trade 10 associations of health hazards? 11 A. I have no knowledge. 12 Qt 13 A And what is the reason you have no knowledge? I run a local office and the headquarters were in 14 Cincinnati and there could very well have been discussion 15 which I would not have been aware of. 16 Qt Let me ask you then, did you participate in or are 17 you aware of any such discussions at your level in this 18 area? 19 A No. 20 Qt No, there weren't such discussions or no, that 21 you're not aware? 22 A There were none. 23 Qt There were none? 24 A To the best of my knowledge. If Jfhuuua/eA,, 1 194 PAGE Stewart 1 Q. Are you aware of any conduct on the part of the 2 Union prohibiting you or hampering you from providing work 3 _ _-clothes to insulators? 4A No. 5 Q. Are you aware of any activities on the part of the 6 Union that either prohibited or affected your labeling _7 asbestos products as being hazardous? 8 MS. KENNEY: Objection. 9A No. 10 Ql Are there any actions of the Union that effectively 11 prohibited or hindered the establishment of training f 12 programs to educate insulators as to health hazards?- 13 A Yes, there's a very definite resistance in the 14 Union to companies as such unilaterally having training 15 programs. There is an apprenticeship program that has an 16 ongoing, I understand, health aspect to it, but that's -- 17 Q. I'm specifically talking about opposition by the 18 Union to any program that would specifically edify asbestos 19 workers about health hazards associated with asbestos. 20 A I don't think the subject ever came up. 21 & Were there any actions on the part of the Union 22 that effectively prohibited or interfered with Philip Carey | 23 or Brand's ability to publish internal documents relating 24 to health hazards associated with asbestos? ( dbCtftnletf/ SSiiAocutie^, jPnc. Stewart PAGE 195 1 A. No. 2& I would again ask you with respect to the areas 3 of taking dust monitoring or samples and the issuance of 4 protective clothing, did the Union manifest any conduct 5 that prohibited that from being done or obstructed those 6 ends from being accomplished? 7 A. In the early days there was some resistance to 8 our being able to require a man to wear the mask, 9 particularly in the summertime when it was hot. 10 0. When are the early days? 11 A. In the last sixties, early seventies when we first 12 started issuing masks. 13 Qt Did Philip Carey or Brand ever make it a require 14 ment that an individual wear a mask if they were to be 15 working in or around asbestos? 16 A. About two years ago we finally clamped down on it 17 and it is an ironclad requirement now. 18 Q. And you're saying up until two years ago it was 19 not? 20 A. We issued the mask and whatever protective 21 clothing and tried to get them to do it, but not to the 22 point of firing a man if he wouldn't do it. 23 Q. When was this issue of protective clothing made? 24 A. In the early seventies, from then on. dby&n/eif ^616' W S&A&ccicUieA,, Stewart 196 PAGE________ 1 Ql And are you aware of any relationship between the 2 doing of those acts and the establishment of regulations 3 by OSHA? 4 MR. MEELEY: Object to the form. 5 We covered that before. 6 We -- as soon as OSHA made us aware of 7 what was acceptable in the wav of clothing, that's when we 8 started doing it. 9 MR. MEELEY: Can you read that answer 10 back. . 11 12 Ql (The last answer is read by the Reporter.) Now, I'd like to go back, if we could, to Stewart 13 Exhibit No. 2. 14 15 A 16 Q. I believe we were on Page 4. Correct. Okay. And I'm now referring to Job No. 493 at 17 Hercules Powder. | 18 And looking at Exhibit 3, it appears that | 19 that job occurred between the period of November, 1973, 20 and January 4th, of 1970 -- 21 A *74. 22 Qi 23 A 24 Ql Okay. There's no 4, but 1974. Okay. Would you look down that list and tell me 4/Mcuuftinleifr 'tyl/i&er V J0ru>. Stewart 197 PAGE 1 what products, if any, contained asbestos? 2A The only one would be the Fibrous Adhesive. 3 Ql And from whom did Brand order or receive Fibrous 4 Adhesive? 5A Probably Benjamin Foster Company. 6 MR. INGERSOLL: I'm sorry, I didn't hear 7 that. 8 THE WITNESS: Benjamin Foster Company. 9 Q. Were there any other companies besides Benjamin 10 Foster, to your knowledge, that produced Fibrous Adhesive 11 during this 1973-1974 period? 12 A That was our main supplier. There may have been 13 others, as we previously said. 14 & And in what form was Fibrous Adhesive obtained 15 by Philip Carey? 16 A It -- it's in a five-gallon can and it's a thick, 17 heavy mastic material that's troweled on as an adhesiveJ 18 Q. Okay. Now, looking down again. Job No. 56, 19 Hercules, I ask you again to identify those products 20 containing asbestos, if any? 21 A The Job Number should properly be 560, it should 22 be 560 instead of 56. 23 & 24 A How do you know that? 'Cause I called the office and had the gal check. Stewart 198 page . 1& 2 A. Okay. There was no asbestos-containing materials there. 3& Philadelphia Electric, the job is 416, I believe, 4 or 4116? 5 4116. 6& Okay. 7 MR. INGERSOLL: To keep things going, 8 would you check the dates of that job. If I have 9 it correct -- 10 MR. COHEN: The 56 job or the -- 11 MR. INGERSOLL: 4116. 12 The dates I have are November 5, 1973, 13 to September 30, 1973. 14 MR. COHEN: Right, it goes from November, 15 1973, and then it goes -- 16 THE WITNESS: From September to November. 17 MR. INGERSOLL: It should be the other way 18 around. 19 BY MR. COHEN: 20 Qt Okay. You're talking about approximately a two- 21 month interval then in 1973? 22 Right. 23 There's nothing on that job with asbestos 24 in it. is, %$Z0. Stewart PAGE 199 1 Qt Okay. The job marked Pennsylvania 500, and 2 looking again back at Exhibit No. 3 it goes from December 3 6th until December 11th of 1973? 4 A. There's nothing there with asbestos in it. 5 Q. We already looked at Hercules No. 544. 6 U. S. Steel, No. 4122, calcium silicate? 7 A. That's not identified by any manufacturer, I have 8 to assume that it was non-asbestos containing. 9 Q> I don't want you to assume. Okay? 10 A. I do not know it. 11 & Job No. 468, Philadelphia Electric, which -- 12 A. Again, to the best of my knowledge, there was no 13 asbestos -- I 14 Qi I'm sorry, Mr. Stewart. Let me say it goes from 15 June through November of 1974. 16 A To the best of my knowledge, there was nothing on 17 that job with asbestos in it. 18 & All right. Job No. 5001, United States Steel, 19 that going from January 6th through 10th of 1975. 20 A 21 Q. No asbestos on that. Texaco, Job No. 6031, going from the end of March 22 to the end of April in 1976. 23 A Again there's that Fibrous Adhesive, which has a 24 small amount. tsMcStfin/eif & SZ&bAoc*a/eA>, J^no. 3 Stewart 200 PAGE 1& When you say a small amount, how can you quantify 2 the amount? 3A It's mostly silicate of soda that makes it pliable 4 and there's a little bit of asbestos fiber in it for a 5 binding agent, maybe on the order of 20%. 6 ft So you're saying 20% of asbestos to you is a little 7 bit? 8 A. In that context, yes. It's a mastic material 9 that's completely encapsulated, it's not a friable asbestos 10 that makes dust. 11 ft 12 A. Unlike the cements, for instance? Correct. 13 ft All right. Now, would your answer be different 14 in terms of sources of supply for Fibrous Adhesive on the 15 Texaco job? 16 A No, no. 17 ft Now, where it says Fibrous Adhesive, there's a 18 number^ 427 in front of it. 19 What does that connote to you, if 20 anything? 21 A 22 427. I believe that's Benjamin Foster's product number, 23 ft The Texaco job, 6052, going from September to 24 October of 1976? ^ $uoda/e&, J?n&. Stewart; page 201 1 A. There's no asbestos-bearingmaterialthere, 2 ft Again Texaco job, 6015,going from -- 3A March the 24th. 4 ft -- March 24th through June 16th of '76? 5A Again, the only product there that had asbestos 6 in it would be the Fibrous Adhesive, 7 ft Sears, 6039. " 8 Let me just get the dates on that. 9 All right, let me just go back to Exhibit 10 No. 3. I show on the last page Job 6039 as being Texaco. 11 A I think I'll have to hire a new gal. 12 I think the proper identification is 13 Sears, just from the list of materials and my knowledge 14 of what went on the job. 15 ft There certainly would be a way of checking the 16 job number for certain? 17 A ' 18 ft Sure. Okay. That particular job, irrespective of | 1 ^ 19 whether it was Sears or Texaco, can you tell me what 20 products, if any, had asbestos at that time? 21 A None of them. 22 ft And the last job is No. 7067, N. L. Industries, 23 from December, '77, until March of '78? 24 A There's no asbestos-bearing material there. i Stewart 202 PAGE 1& Okay. Now, I'd like you to go back through that 2 list and tell me which of those products again job by job 3 at any time ever contained asbestos insofar^as you know from 4 personal knowledge? 5 A. You mean generically, the product? 6& Contained either asbestos or asbestos fiber as a 7 part of the product. - A. 8 Okay. Irregardless of whether it was on this particular job or not? 9 10 0 Right. In other words, and I'm just doing this 11 by way of hypothetical, although Powerhouse Cement, as 12 I understand your testimony, did not at this time contain 13 asbestos -- 14 A. 15 ft Right. -- if you have a knowledge that Powerhouse Cement 16 or Super Powerhouse at any time prior to this job -- 17 A. Okay. 18 ft -- contained asbestos, I'd like you to identify 19 that. 20 ft 21 A. Okay. Now, again we're back to the 140 Temple job. Right. 22 MR. CILINGIN: Off the record. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 tstby&rdBtf V SZ&AaciaXeAt, J?no. Stewart 203 PAGE 1 BY MR. COHEN: 2Q Why don't you look down the 140 Temple job and tell 3 me what products ever contained--asbestos, irrespective of 4 the amount or form it was in? 5A Careytemp Pipe Covering, Powerhouse Cement, 6 Thermobestos Pipe Covering. 7 That's it.- 8Q Okay. Now, Thermobestos was made by whom, if you 9 know? 10 A Johns-Manville. 11 Q And to your knowledge, what period of time did Thermobestos contain asbestos in it? 12 1 13 A I think this isgeneral, in the earlyseventies or ~ 14 the very late sixties, all manufacturers removed the 15 asbestos from their products. 16 Q And I'm sorry, going backward, you said Powerhouse : 17 Cement? [ 18 A Q 19 Yes. And to your knowwledge, who manufacturedPowerhouse ; ! i 20 Cement? 21 A Well, it was Ehret Magnesia to begin with, then it 22 became Baldwin, Ehret, Hill, then it became Keene Company. 23 Q And I'm assuming from your answers that the removal 24 of asbestos, to the best of your knowledge, would have been 5-2 Stewart 204 page . 1 in the latter part of the sixties, early part of the 2 seventies? 3A In the same time frame, yeah. 4Q If that changes on any of your statements, let me 5 know, otherwise I won't ask you that question again. 6A Okay. 7Q The next thing I believe you said was the Careytemp 8 Pipe Covering. 9 That was, to ask a rhetorical question, 10 manufactured by Carey? 11 A Right. 12 Q Looking at thePhiladelphiaElectric job -- 13 A Okay. Cal Sil, I don't know who manufactured the 14 first item, but the same statement applies. 15 Q Okay. Let mestop you for a moment. 16 It says Cal Sil P/C. 17 A Pipe Covering. 18 Q Okay. 19 A The next item, she's got Thermosil P/C, in parenthe 20 ses "blocks," which cannot be, it can't be pipe covering 21 in blocks. 22 These are not highly educated people that 23 write these orders up, first understand that. This may have 24 been written by some guy in the field and sent in to us to isMaCtfirUeif SShiaciafait, J^ncr. Stewart 205 PAGE 1 send out, so the Thermosil may not be 100% correct, 2 ft Let me ask you if it also could mean Thermosil 3 pipe covering and block? 4A It could. 5 MR. MEELEY: Object to the form of that. 6 A. It could. 7 ft - Without speculating as to whether it means pipe 8 covering and/or block -- 9 A. It did at one time in the early stages contain 10 asbestos. 11 ft And who manufacturedThermosil, if you know? 12 A I know that's Atlas Insulations,a Canadian company, 13 ft Is there any other manufactured that you're aware of 14 that produced Thermosil pipe covering and/or block? 15 A No. I may be wrong about the manufacturer there, 16 ft All right. Would you go down -- 17 A 18 ft 19 The Careytemp 90 ELL, the Powerhouse Cement. Okay. Let me stop you. Careytemp, is that manufactured -- I 20 A Philip Carey Company. 21 ft Okay. And Powerhouse Cement? 22 A In the present teminology, Keene Company. 23 Powerhouse Cement again, that's the second 24 time for that, Thermobestos Pipe Covering -- i 5-4 Stewart PAGE 206 1Q And again -- 2A Johns-Manville. 3" Q Okay. 4A -- Dual Careytemp, Philip Carey products? and of 5 course, the Asbestos Cloth, and I'm not sure whose Asbestos 6 Cloth that was. - 7Q Now, on the Asbestos Cloth, are you aware of orderinc 8 or receiving Asbestos Cloth having a vapor barrier as 9 contrasted with one not having a vapor barrier? 10 A Yes, yes. 11 Q Okay. Are you aware of any particular manufacturer i 12 of Asbestos Cloth that had vapor barrier? 13 A The same supplier that we said before. 14 Q 15 A Would either be Amatex or -- Or Raybestos. 16 Q -- Raybestos-Manhattan, okay. 17 MR. BRUCH: Or Goodyear. 18 Q Or Goodyear? 19 A Possibly. 20 Q Or Goodrich. 21 22 Kaylo? 23 A Yes. Now, are you aware of the manufacturer of 24 Q And who would that be? \ 5-5 Stewart PAGE 207 1A Owens-Coming. 2Q And do you know whether Kaylo ever contained 3 asbestos? 4A Yes, it did. 5 MR. O'CONNOR: Objection. 6 Off the record. 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 MR. COHEN: Back on the record. 9 BY MR. COHEN: 10 Q Of the Kaylo products utilized by Philip Carey, 11 can you tell us to your knowledge whether the Kaylo did 12 contain asbestos? . 13 A The time frame would indicate that it did. 14 Q Now, you have MW-1 and MW-50 cement, the last item 15 on Philadelphia Electric. 16 A Right. 17 Q You did not mention those previously -- 18 A They did at one time contain asbestos. . 19 Q Okay. And to your knowledge, what manufacturers . 20 made W-l and MW-50? 21 A Philip Carey. 22 Q 23 A 24 Q Are you aware of anyother manufacturers? Not -- those are tradenames. Okay. Going to the Hercules job, the 354 Hercules S&Aociez/ie&t. no. 5-6 Stewart PAGE 208 1 job -- 2A Okay. Careytemp Pipe Covering, Powerhouse Cement, 3 Thermosil Pipe Covering, Asbestos Cloth and the bottom line. 4 Cal Sil, since all calcium silicates did at one time contain 5 asbestos, to my knowledge. 6Q 7 Let me back up. You did not mention Kaylo P/C, Pipe Covering. 8A 9Q I skipped that inadvertently. Again, I would like to ask you with respect to that 10 particular column that we're talking about whether your 11 answers would be any different as to the manufacturers or I 12 suppliers of the Thermosil Pipe Covering, Powerhouse Cement, | 13 Careytemp, Asbestos Cloth or Kaylo? 14 MR. O'CONNOR: Objection. 15 A No, they're all trade names made by the same manu 16 facturer. 17 Q Also the calcium silicate, can you tell us, to 18 the best of your knowledge, who, during your tenure with i 19 Philip Carey, who manufactured calcium silicate containing 20 asbestos? 21 A Every manufacturer of calcium silicate, including 22 Owens-Coming, Johns-Manville, Keene, Atlas, Holmes, 23 Pabco. 24 MR. INGERSOLL: Who? Stewart 209 PAGE 1 MR. COHEN: Pabco. 2Q Let's now go cater-corner on that same job, 3 diagonally, the 354 Hercules job. 4A Okay. The same thing, Careytemp Pipe Covering and 5 Kaylo and Super Powerhouse Cement. 6Q Who made SuperPowerhouse Cement? 7A 8Q 9A Keene. And that did contain asbestos? I think it did. Maybe at the time they added the j i i 10 name "Super" was when they changed to eliminate the asbestos, 11 I'm not sure. 12 Q 13 A Do you know that for afact? I do not know. 14 Q Okay. Do you know whether Powerhouse Cement con 15 tained asbestos? 16 A At one time I'msure it did. 17 Q And the addition ofthe word "Super" didn't suggest | f 18 to you from personal knowledge whether that had anything I 19 to do with the asbestos content? 20 A Not really. 21 Q Okay. And other than Keene, are you aware of anyone 22 else that made Powerhouse or Super Powerhouse Cement? 23 I A 24 I Q No. And your answers for Kaylo and Careytemp would. Stewart 210 PAGE________ 1 therefore, be the same -- 2 MR. O'CONNOR: Objection. 3Q -- or different? 4A The same. 5Q 6A 7Q 8A 9Q 10 A Now, you've got 9007 Mastic. That's 90-07, the dash may not be in there. Okay. That's a Benjamin Foster product. What is that composed of? It's a black fibrated asphalt emulsion that's 11 applied over insulation to protect it from the weather. 12 Q 13 A To your knowledge, that contains noasbestos? It may. 14 MR. HAASE: You mean at anytime? 15 MR. COHEN: No, I'm talking about in the 16 context that we've been speaking of. 17 A It may, it never occurred to me and, yes, it may 18 very well. 19 Q And you said the 90-07 Mastic was produced by 20 whom? 21 A Benjamin Foster. 22 Q All right. Going down to 389, J. C. Penney -- 23 A Well, again Thermosil Block, Fibrous Adhesive, 24 Careytemp Block, Powerhouse Cement. 5-9 Stewart PAGE . 2JLL 1 And that's all. 2 MS. KENNEY: Can we go off the record a 3 minute? 4 MR. COHEN: Sure. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 BY MR. COHEN: 7Q All right. Job 359, Schuylkill Station, Phila 8 delphia Electric? 9A Careytemp Pipe Covering, asbestos tubing and the 10 asbestos boot. 11 Q Okay. The R/M Asbestos Tubing, the manufacturer of 12 that? 13 A Presumably Raybestos-Manhattan. I think that's our | 14 shorthand for that. 15 Q And I believe we stated the asbestos boot you were 16 not -- 17 A Was furnished to us by Philadelphia Electric, I have no knowledge who made it. 18 19 Q Now, going down to the bottom of the second page^ 3 j u 20 that job which I believe we said was Hercules -- 21 MS. BOOKLER: Hercules 544. 22 Q -- 544? 23 A Okay. Careytemp Pipe Covering, Cal Sil Pipe Covering^ 24 Asbestos Cloth. y&n/etf S&uiocuz/eA', 5-10 Stewart 212 PAGE 1 And that's it. 2Q All right.' Calcium silicate is identified by 3 Pabco in that particular job? 4A Right. 5Q The 520 Adhesive, is that an asbestos-containing 6 product? 7A No, that's a rubber contact adhesive. 8Q And who produces that, if you know? 9A Armstrong Cork. 10 Q How about the 85-20? 11 A 85-20 is also a rubber cement, it's not a contact 12 type cement, and that's Benjamin Foster Company product. 13 MR. HAASE: Once again, are we still within j 14 the period of time for his association with Philip 15 Carey? We keep lapsing into who produces it. 16 Q Those products asproduced on this sheetrepresent 17 Brand. Am I correct? 18 A Yes. I 19 Q And do you have any knowledge of whether 520 or the 20 85-20 was produced prior to the seventies? 21 A Yes, they were, by the samemanufacturers. 22 Q Okay. And you're saying in that period of time you 23 have no knowledge that those products contained any asbestos? 24 A Do not believe thephysical characteristics would ^ S&mxuo&a-, Stewart 213 PAGE 1 allow them to contain asbestos. 2Q The 435 Hercules job? 3A Another misnomer. Standard Grade Thermacon should 4 be Thermatex, which is a black fibrated asphalt emulsion 5 similar to 90-07. 6Q Produced by whom? 7A Philip Carey. 8 Careytemp Pipe Covering, Careytemp Block, 9 Powerhouse Cement, Dual Careytemp, Kaylo Pipe Covering, 10 Thermosil Pipe Covering and Block, Careytemp Asbestos 11 Cement, Pabco Pipe Covering and Fibrous Adhesive. 12 Q 13 A The 81-93, does that suggest a manufacturer? Yes, that's a Benjamin Foster number . 14 Q Now, you did not mention Thermobestos in reviewing 15 that list. 16 A I skipped over it by mistake, it should have been 17 included. 18 Q Now, did the Thermatex contain asbestos, the first 19 one on the list? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And that was produced by whom? 22 A 23 Q Philip Carey. Now, as to the othermanufacturers, are there any 24 additions to manufacturers for the various products other ts&uy&nduf ty/axe, S&dcctate&r, J?nc. Stewart 214 PAGE 1 than those that you've already told us? 2A No. 3Q Okay. Philadelphia Electric, 450 job? 4A Careytemp Pipe Covering, Thermosil Pipe Covering, 5 Kaylo Pipe Covering, Thermobestos Pipe Covering, Powerhouse 6 Cement, Cal Sil Block, MW-1 Cement, Thermosil Block, 7 Asbestos Cloth and this Speed Lag Asbestos Cloth and the 8 90-07 Adhesive. 9Q Now, the RM prefacing the Speed Lag Asbestos Cloth, 10 does that suggest anything to you? 11 A 12 Q 13 Presumably Raybestos-Manhattan. What is the 25-35 Blue Gray Mastic composed of? Let me rephrase the question. | 14 You've stated that that was never an 15 asbestos product, to your knowledge? 16 A I really have no knowledge. I know it's -- it's a vinyl acrylic type mastic as opposed to asphalt, that's the j 17 18 sxim total of my knowledge. | 19 Q Do you know who the manufacture of that product is? i 20 A It's a Benjamin Foster number. 21 Q The 493 Hercules job on Page 4, I believe it is? 22 A The Careytemp, the Thermosil, Kaylo Block, Powerhouse 23 Cement, Fibrous Adhesive, Cal Sil Pipe Covering and Block and 24 the 90-07 Adhesive. Stewart 215 PAGE 1Q And there's also an 81-93 Adhesive, can you 2 distinguish whether that ever contained asbestos? 3A I think that's one of the rubber-based adhesives, 4 I'm not sure. 5Q Now, again as to that Hercules job and the one prior, 6 the Philadelphia Electric job, can you think of any 7 additional manufacturers of particular products that you've 8 enumerated other than those you've already testified to? 9A Well, they're all trade names, they apply to a 10 specific manufacturer. 11 Q Are you aware of whether any of the products that 12 you testified to are manufactured tinder relabeling agree 13 ments? 14 A I think we did discuss previously about cements 15 with Philip Carey and Keene Company having a reciprocal 16 agreement to manufacture them in the closest facility. 17 To the best of my knowledge, that is the only one. 18 Q The 560 Hercules job? 19 A Careytemp Pipe Covering, Kaylo Pipe Covering, 20 Powerhouse Cement, 90-07 Mastic. 21 Q Now, the 4116 Philadelphia Electric job? 22 A Careytemp Pipe Covering and the Cal Sil Pipe 23 Covering. 24 Q How about the Epitherm? & S&uUicia&A,, Stewart 216 PAGE __________ I A. Epitherm is a mineral wool product and, to the best 9 of my knowledge, contains no asbestos. 3 Q. Now, the N. L. Industries, Pennsylvania 500 job? 4 A. Powerhouse Cement, 90-07 Adhesive, Careytemp Block. 5 Ql And as to the last two jobs that we spoke about, 6 are there any additional manufacturers or suppliers of 7 those~products that you can think of other than those you've 8 already testified to? 9 A. No, they're all trade names. 10 Q. Do you know who manufactured Epitherm or distributee 11 it? 12 A 13 0- Yes, Eagle-Picher Company. All right. We have again the 544 Hercules job and 14 there are two items listed. 15 A Both of those at some time did contain asbestos. Hi Qt The 4122 U. S. Steel job? 17 A. The Cal Sil, which is unidentified, but just 18 generically did at one time contain asbestos. If) Q. And as to those, are there any other manufacturers 20 or suppliers you can think of other than those that you've testified to? A None that haven't already been mentioned. 23 0- 21 A The 468 Philadelphia Electric job? Cal Sil Pipe Covering and Quick Set Cement and - //r- 4Ui/rif '//f.ir 'f ''/xuirut/ex. Stewart PAGE 217 ' > Thermosil Pipe Covering. 2Q Do you know who produced Armablock? 3A Armablock? It's obviously an Armstrong Cork 4 Company product, but I'm not sure what it is. 5Q So you have no knowledge as to whether Armablock 6 does or ever did -- 7A I think this may have been our shippper's term for 8 Armaflex sheets, but I'm not sure. 9 MR. INGERSOLL: Those were the ones that you 10 described before as not containing asbestos? 1U 12 MR. COHEN: As being rubber. THE WITNESS: As rubber, plain rubber. 1 4 13 Q Do you know whether there was such a product as : 14 Armablock though? 15 A 16 17 Q 18 19 A I'm not sure. MR. COHEN: Was there? MR. INGERSOLL: Never heard the term before. | The U. S. Steel job 5001? Kaylo, Careytemp Pipe Covering, Powerhouse Cement 1 j 20 and 90-07 Mastic. 21 Q Texaco? 22 A Texaco, the Fibrous Adhesive, the Cl Mastic, I ) 23 think contained asbestos, the Thermo 12 and the Powerhouse 24 Cement. udbufotletf If cta/eAs, ^no. Stewart 218 PAGE 1Q Now, going back to Thermo 12 Pipe Covering, do you 2 know who the manufacturer or distributor was? 3A That's Thermobestos, that's Johns-Manville. 4Q The Cl Mastic 60-26? 5A That's a Benjamin Foster product. 6Q The 427 Fibrous Adhesive? 7A I think that's a Benjamin Foster number too. 8Q And other than that on those two jobs, U. S. Steel 9 and Texaco, your answer would be the same or different with 10 respect to the manufacturers and/or suppliers? 11 A The same. 12 MS. KENNEY: Excuse me, can I just ask-one 13 question? 14 Do you know, Mr. Stewart, whether or not 15 Thermo 12 ever contained asbestos? 16 ME. COHEN: Anne -- i 17 MS. KENNEY: I was trying to clear something " 18 up because I thought the witness before said these < 19 products did not contain asbestos, to the best of 20 his knowledge. 21 MR. HAASE: At that time. 22 MR. COHEN: He was talking at that time, 23 meaning the Texaco job in the seventies, to his 24 . knowledge those products did not contain asbestos. ty/i&e' & Szh&acia/eA', J$nc. Stewart 219 PAGE 1 I am taking -- 2 MR. HAASE: As a Brand job. 3 MR. COHEN: As a Brand job. 4 Okay. I am taking him back o time. Okay? 5 MS. KENNEY: All right. 6 BY MR. COHEN: 7Q All right. Now, the Texaco jobs 6052 and 6015, 8 let's individually -- 9A Okay. The only one on -- well, 6052 was Quick Set 10 Cement and possibly the Thermakote. 11 Q Now, the number 48 Quick Set Cement, does that 12 suggest anything to you with respect to manufacturer or 13 distributor? % 14 A That's pretty surely it's Forty-Eight Insulations is 15 the manufacturer. 16 Q Now, how about Thermakote? 17 A I am not sure. To the best of my knowledge, that's 18 a substitute material for the 90-07 Mastic, but I'm not 19 sure who the manufacturer is. 20 Q Now, just going back to U. S. Steel for a moment, 21 it is called Hi-Mastic 90-07 as opposed to a Mastic 90-07. 22 Do you know what the difference in the use of 23 the word "Hi" connotes? 24 A It's always Hi-Mastic, it was just abbreviated in s$c*ytjirdet^/ V S'&uuic/afo/is, Stewart PAGE 1 the previous one. 2Q Okay. The 6015 Texaco job? 3A 60-26 Cl Mastic, Fibrous Adhesive, Thermosil Block 4 and the Powerhouse Cement. 5Q Okay. Now, the 60-26 Cl Mastic suggests what 6 insofar as manufacturer or distributor? 7A Benjamin Foster Fibrated Vapor Barrier type Mastic. 8Q All right. The 6039 Sears? 9A 10 all. The Cal Sil by whatever manufacturer, and that's 11 Q Now, for those last two jobs, would your answers be 3 1 12 the same as to sources of manufacture and/or distribution of H % 13 the products that contained asbestos at one time? : 14 A The same answers. 15 Q The 7067 N. L. Industries job? 16 A The only thing could have been was the Hi-Mastic 90-07. 17 ! 18 19 20 Q MR. COHEN: Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) iS j Mr. Stewart, I'd like to show you what I'd like to 21 have marked as Stewart Exhibits 6A through L and ask you 22 where these particular -- 23 MR. MEELEY: Can we go off the record? 24 MR. COHEN: Yes. S^AAocia/ie^, Stewart PACE 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 BY MR. COHEN: 3Q With respect to the documents that I am calling 4 6A through L, I'd like you, if you would, so we can preserve 5 order, just describe for me what these proposed exhibits 6 purport to be. 7A Okay. They're all manufacturers' brochures that 8 describe the various products that we've been referring to. 9 The first one is Benjamin Foster Company, the second one is 10 Eagle-Picher. 11 Q We'll have 6B as Eagle-Picher, 6A is Foster. 12 A 13 Q The third one is Keene Company. 6C. 14 Use the letter of the alphabet so we'll keep 15 it consistent. 16 A 6D is Certain-Teed, 6E is Certain-Tfeed for a different 17 product, 6F is Forty-Eight Insulations, G is Kaylo Ten, 18 H is one from Pabco, I is one from Celotex, J is one from i j 19 Pittsburgh Coming, K is one from Amatex and L is one from | 20 Atlas Insulation. 21 Q Okay, so we go 6A through L then. 22 And can you tell me how those particular 23 exhibits were obtained? 24 A You requested all the information we had available /jbCftinJey, tyl/ibe, V S&h&atua/eAs, Stewart PAGE 222 223 and those are all the brochures that we had in our office. 2Q Okay. So these were brought pursuant to the 3 attachment on the Notice of Deposition originally sent out? 4A Correct. 5Q Okay. And where were they taken from? 6A Well, the various suppliers gave them to us and then 7 we brought them to you from our Essington office. 8Q At whose request or direction were those -- 9A Your request. 10 Q Within Brand Insulations. 11 A My own request. 12 MR. COHEN: Okay. I'd just like to take a 13 second and let's get them marked. 14 (Brochure of Foster Fibrous Adhesive is 15 marked Stewart Exhibit 6A for identification.) 16 (Brochure of Eagle-Picher Industries, Inc., 17 is marked Stewart Exhibit 6B for identification.) 18 (Keene Insulation and Contracting Division 19 Data Sheet, dated April 1, 1974, is marked Stewart 20 Exhibit 6C for identification.) 21 (Certain-Teed Product Data Sheet on Standard 22 Duct Insulation is marked Stewart Exhibit 6D for identification.) 24 (Certain-Teed Product Data Sheet on ire is rart l is >n.) .rked is. I Stewart 224 PAGE . 1 EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. INGERSOLL: 3 Q. Mr. Stewart, would you look at Page 4 of this 4 exhibit, which is Stewart 2. 3 Midway down the column on the right-hand 6 side is PA- -- is the PA.4122 job at U. S. Steel? 7 A. Right. 8 Q. Do you have any idea approximately about the date 9 of that job? 10 A. Is that on the list? 11 Q. I did not see a date for that on Exhibit 3 and I'm 12 just curious. 13 Ql Just from the number sequence, it's fairly recent, 14 very recent. 15 Q. '76 or '77, thereabouts? 16 A. No -- no further back than '75 for sure from the 17 number sequence. 18 MR. INGERSOLL: Okay. That's all I have. 19 MR. O'CONNOR: May I just ask one 20 question. 21 EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. O'CONNOR: 23 Q. Mr. Stewart, as I understand your testimony, you 24 said that Kaylo at some time had asbestos in it. ty/i&e- utfL&ociaieAs, ^ne>. Stewart PAGE 225 1 Do you know if at the same time that some 2 Kaylo had asbestos in it, whether there was also some Kaylo 3 without asbestos in it? 4A Yes, it could be ordered in both forms. 5 Q. Can you tell just by looking at this Exhibit 2 6 whether the Kaylo being referred to had asbestos in it or 7 whether it did not have asbestos? 8A Just from the time -- no, not from referring to 9 this, but just from the time, yes. 10 Q. What do you mean by the time? 11 A. Any material we bought at that time we specified 12 asbestos-free by our choice. 13 MR. HAASE: You mean because this is 1 14 Brand? 15 THE WITNESS: Right. 16 MR. HAASE: And because it's 1970 on? 17 THE WITNESS: Right. 18 MR. COHEN: Off the record. 19 (Discussion off the record.) i 20 BY MR. O'CONNOR: 21 Q. Do you know when Owens-Corning started making 22 Kaylo 10? 23 A I'm not sure, no. 24 0- Do you know if they were making it during the A 226 PAGE Stewart 1 early sixties? 2 A. I can't say with any certainty, I don't know. 3 Q. As I understand it, you can't tell what type of 4 Kaylo it is by looking at the list? 5A No. 6 Q. Whether it's Kaylo 10 -- 7A No. 8 Q. -- or Kaylo 20? 9A No. It could have been any one of those because 10 we abbreviated these lists. These were copied from our 11 shipping orders in the warehouse. 12 Q. And as per Exhibit '6, I forget what the subletter ] 13 was, Kaylo 10 is asbestos free. Right? 14 A Right, but we did establish early on everything on 15 here, to the best of my knowledge, was ordered, if it was a 16 choice, it was ordered asbestos free or by its very nature 17 was asbestos free. | 18 MR. O'CONNOR: Thank you. a 19 EXAMINATION | 20 BY MS. KENNEY: 21 Ql Mr. Stewart, my name is Anne Kenney and I've got 22 a couple of questions. . 23 During your deposition of November 16th, 24 1979, you mentioned that among other manufacturers, you isMcC&n/eys S&bvacxcUe&,, J?ru>. Stewart PAGE 227 1 believed Johns-Manville manufactured Asbestos Cloth? 2A Yes. 3 Q. Is that true? 4A Yes. 5 Q. Can you tell mewhat youbase your statement on 6 that J-M manufactured Asbestos Cloth? 7A I really don't -- I just had a general opinion and 8 thought that we did in fact buy Asbestos Cloth from Johns- 9 Manville, I don't know. 10 Q. Had you everseenany invoices to that effect? 11 A Specific -- I cannot specifically recall any, no. 12 Q. Do you know any specific job sites where Asbestos 13 Cloth manufactured by J-M was used? 14 A No. We used Asbestos Cloth in a very minimal part 15 of our overall business, very minute amount, and I don't 16 know. 17 QL Can you tell me what time frame, if any, if you 18 recall. Asbestos Cloth was purchased from Johns-Manville? 19 A I can't even tell you for sure that we ever did 20 purchase any from Johns-Manville. 21 0- Then there is no specific basis on which you 22 formulated your statement that Asbestos Cloth was purchased 23 from Johns-Manville. Is that true? 24 A No, no specific basis. I '.s&oy&n/etf V cuuaZe^-, ^nc. 228 PAGE_____________ 5 Stewart 1 Q. Did you ever, by the way, talk directly with any 2 representatives from Johns-Manville during your years at 3 Brand or Philip Carey? 4 A. You mean did any salesmen ever call on us? 5 Q. On youspecifically. 6 Did you ever talkto any? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Can you tell me their names, please? 9 A. Dick Mattigen is the only one I can think of off 10 the top of my head. ' 11 MR. BRUCH: Dick who? 12 THE WITNESS: Dick Mattigen. 13 MR. HAASE: Mattigen. 14 THE WITNESS: Don't ask me how to spell 15 it, please. 16 Ql Do you know what office he was from, where he was 1 17 located? 4 18 A. I don't know for sure 'cause Philadelphia 19 Asbestos Company represented Johns-Manville in this area, i 20 so we had very -- relatively minute dealings directly with 21 Johns-Manville. Usually if someone came from Johns- 22 Manville, they were accompanied with someone from 23 Philadelphia Asbestos. 24 0- Do you know if Mr. Mattigen is deceased or alive? ''ty/i&e' If S&uuuaie&r, Stewart PAGE 229 1 A. I think he's still alive and in the industry, 2 ft You mentioned calcium silicate in your prior 3 deposition, Johns-Manville supplied calcium silicate 4 products. Is that true? 5 A. Yes. 6 ft Do you know what types of products? 7 A. Pipe covering and block. 8 ft Do you know if the calcium silicate pipe covering 9 and/or block ever contained asbestos? 10 A. At one period in time, yes. 11 ft What are you basing your statement on that Johns- 12 Manville supplied calcium silicate pipe covering and block? 13 A. Because at some point they informed us that it no 14 longer contained asbestos. 15 ft Okay. Now, my question is, what are you basing 16 your statement on that Johns-Manville supplied calcium 17 silicate pipe covering and/or block to either Philip Carey 18 or Brand? 19 A Well, on purchase orders to them, 20 ft You had seen purchase orders with -- 21 A Had and at present have underway a rather large 22 job using Johns-Manville asbestos -- not asbestos, I beg 23 your pardon, calcium silicate at Philadelphia Gas Company 24 here in Philadelphia. I Stewart PAGE 230 Ql Do you have any specific recollection as to seeing purchase invoices prior to 1970 with calcium silicate products which were manufactured by Johns-Manville? A. Since all data was Philip Carey records and we've totally given them to Philip Carey, no longer have them available, I have no specific recollection or ability to recover it. Qt You've no specific recollection at this point -- A. No. Q. -- of ever seeing that on an invoice? A. No. Ql Can you tell me, I'm just a little bit confused, because when I asked what you were basing your statement on that Johns-Manville supplied calcium silicate products, you said invoices, now you're saying you have no specific recollection of seeing those invoices -- A. I'm saying invoices since 1970. Q. You have no specific recollection of seeing | ! invoices prior to 1970? A. Not from Johns-Manville. Q. So do you have any specific recollection or can you say with any degree of certainty that Johns-Manville had supplied calcium silicate products to Philip Carey prior to 1970? s/by&nJeif S&huicta/eii,, J?nc. Stewart 1 A. In very, very small quantities. I could recognize 2 the product itself just by its physical appearance. 3 Q. Do you recall seeing containers containing calcium 4 silicate with the words Johns-Manville or J-M on the box? 5 A. Yes. 6 Qt Can you describe the color of the lettering and 7 the appearance of the containers? 8 A. Just a big cardboard box with the regular J and M 9 logo on, to the best of my recollection. 10 Q. Do you recall what colors the letters J-M were? 11 A. Blue, I believe. 12 Q. 13 A. I'm sorry? Either blue or black. 14 Q. What about Thermobestos, you mentioned that J-M, 15 you believe, manufactured Thermobestos, can you tell me 16 what you based your statement on? 17 A. That is their trade name for theirproduct. 18 Q. Can you tell me what Thermobestos looks like? 19 A. It's a light gray whitish-colored material that 3 1 20 looks a little bit like chalk that you could write on a 21 chalkboard with, but it has a very distinctive stippled 22 pattern on the surface of it that differentiates it from 23 any other calcium silicate. You can recognize it completely 24 out of the carton. V' SShtoacicUeA', ^nc,. 1 Stewart PAGE 232 1 MR. HAASE: What time frame are you 2 talking about when you say it looks that way? 3 THE WITNESS: I am talking about from 4 the first time I ever saw it until now. 5 Qt Can you tell me what time frame you believe 6 Thermobestos was supplied to either Philip Carey or Brand 7 by J-M? 8 A. At Philip Carey, of course, we used primarily 9 Philip Carey materials and we only used any other 10 manufacturers' in very small amounts to fill in. It could 11 have been at any time during my tenure with Philip Carey. 12 Q. Did you ever see any invoices prior to 1970 13 stating Thermobestos? 14 A. I cannot specificallyrecall seeing them, no. 15 0- Do you recall any specific job sites where 16 Thermobestos might have been used prior to 1970? 17 A. Not specifically, no. That's asking too much of 18 a feeble memory. 19 Q. What about Thermo 12, sir, you indicated before 20 you believe it was manufactured by Johns-Marrvilie. Is that 21 true? 22 A. As far as I know, that isThermobestos. 23 Q. Thermo 12? 24 A. Yes. ^$c*ytisi/e^ shuicxa/ea,, J?n&. i 233 PAGE .0 Stewart 1 (X Can you tell me if Thermo 12 ever contained 2 asbestos? 3A I don't know whether specifically with a product 4 named 12 after it, whether that was before or after it 5 contained asbestos, I don't know. 6 ft Can you tell me what you're basing your statement 7 on that J-M supplied Thermo 12? 8 A. Well, just from my own personal knowledge. And 9 to the best of my knowledge, that's their trade name for 10 their product. 11 ft Do you recall any specific job sites where 12 Thermo 12 was used? 13 A Not at this point. 14 ft Do you know the time frame Thermo 12 was utilized 15 by Philip Carey or Brand? 16 A I -- I cannot differentiate between Thermo 12 and 17 Thermobestos. To my way of thinking and to the way our 18 shipper writes them up on the orders they are synonymous 19 and mean the same thing. 20 ft Have you ever seen any invoices with Thermo 12 21 on them? 22 A If I did, I can't recall specifically, and they 23 would have come from Philadelphia Asbestos and not from 24 Johns-Manville to us. tyl/tAe* V Silteiacuz/eA,, J&tc. i Stewart 234 PAGE____________ 1 MS. KENNEY: Thank you, sir. 2 No further questions at this time. 3 MR. COHEN: Armstrong. 4 MR. INGERSOLL: I have no questions, I 5 already asked my one. 6 7 EXAMINATION MR. COHEN: Raybestos. S BY MR. CILINGIN: 9 Q. Mr. Stewart, Bill Cilingin from Raybestos- 10 Manhattan. 11 During the time you worked with Philip 12 Carey, I think you said you bought Asbestos Cloth from 13 Raybestos-Manhattan? i 14 A Yes. 15 Q. What do you base that information upon? 16 A Personal memory from looking it up in your 4 I 17 brochures and -- and calling the order in myself personally. i 18 Q. Okay. How about the time you were with Brand i 19 Insulations, upon what information do you base the fact 20 that you bought Asbestos Cloth from Raybestos-Manhattan? 21 A I'm not sure that we did, but I think we did, and 22 under the same circumstances. 23 Q. I'm sorry, what was that last part? 24 A I said under the same circumstances where I would PAGE 235 2 Stewart 1 have placed the order myself. 2 Ql But you're not sure whether you did place the 3 order yourself? 4 A. I'm not sure. 5 Qt How about with the Philip Carey people, are you 6 sure you placed orderswith Raybestos? 7 A. Yes. 8 MR. CILINGIN: That's all I have. Thank 9 - you. 10 MR. COHEN: Amatex. 11 MR. DUNN: No questions. 12 MR. COHEN: Unarco. 13 MR. JENEMANN: No questions. 14 MR. COHEN: H. K. Porter and Southern. 15 MR. ANDERS: No questions. 16 MR. COHEN: Eagle. 17 EXAMINATION 18 BY MS. PENNELL: 19 Q. 20 A Mr. Stewart, my name is Barbara Pennell. Hi. 21 Q. At a couple times during your initial dep and 22 today's dep you've mentioned specifications. 23 Were the majority of the jobs performed 24 by Philip Carey or Brand performed in accordance with Sthbaciaieb, J?nc. Stewart PAGE 236 1 specifications? 2 A. Almost invariably, yes. 3 Ql And whose specifications would those have been? 4A Either the owner or some design engineer. 5 Q. Do you know whether there were any Federal Govern 6 ment specifications that covered any of these jobs? 7 MR. COHEN: At what point in time? 8 MS. PENNELL: Any of the jobs during the 9 time he was with Philip Carey or Brand. 10 A I don't think so. I tried to avoid Government 11 work as much as possible. 12 Q. How about were there any State specifications that 13 perhaps covered any of these jobs? 14 A The same answer applies. 15 Q. Now, there's one job listed here,-for example, 16 PA-6031, which was Texaco? 17 A Right. 18 Ql Was that at a refinery? 19 A Yes. 20 Q. Are there any, to your knowledge. State or Federal 21 specifications that cover refinery work? 22 A We never see them if there are. 23 Ql Now, I believe you indicated that specifications 24 you would follow for the job would either be drawn up by 1 ty/iAe' V' Sih&acia/eA,, jfnc,. I 237 PAGE .4 Stewart 1 the person for whom you're doing the job or the designer. 2 Is that right? 3 A. His designated representative. 4& And what type of things would those specifications 5 provide? 6A They would tell us what product to use and how to 7 supply them and when. 8 Q. By what product, would they indicate a specific 9 manufacturer or just the type of product? 10 A Usually they would list one or more manufacturers 11 by name and then say "or equal". 12 & Would they ever indicate what the products had to 13 consist of, what the product should have been made of? 14 A Yes. 15 0- Would they everindicate that the product, for 16 ^example, a pipe covering , that a pipe covering should be 17 in conformance with a certain specification? 18 A I have seen that, but very rarely. Either a 19 Federal spec or an ASTM spec. 20 & Do you recall any jobsthat Mr.Fluharty might 21 have been associated with where there would have been an 22 indication that the material used had to conform to a . 23 specification? 24 A Just a second. Stewart PAGE 238 1 (Pause.) 2 A. I don't think so. 3 Ql We might have gone through this before, and please 4 forgive me if we did, you do have job folders for each job. 5 Is that right? 6 A. Yes. 7 ft Do those job folders contain the initial 8 specifications? 9 A. If they're not too voluminous. Sometimes a spec 10 is this thick, then we keep them separately. 11 MR. HAASE: Holding his hand up about 12 13 ft six inches off the table. . Okay. Do you have any knowledge whether for any g j 14 of these jobs, the ones listed on Exhibits 2 or 3, whether 15 you still might have the specifications on any of those 16 jobs? 17 A We either have the printed specification or 18 estimator's handwritten information that he took from the i 19 specification. 20 ft Back when you were with Philip Carey, do you know 21 whether there were job folders kept by Philip Carey? 22 A Yes, there were. 23 ft Do you know whether those job folders contained 24 specifications, if any? 'ty/tAe* V SZh&aciateA', ^no. 239 PAGE '6 Stewart 1 A. The same answers apply, yes. 2 Qt And all those folders again would have been shipped 3 to Cincinnati? 4 A. For sure. 5 Qt Did you know Mr. Fluharty personally? 6A 7 Q. Yes. And what was your personal connectionwith him? 8A He worked for us as a field installer and I saw 9 him on occasion come into the shop and get materials, and 10 I saw him on occasion at job sites when I was doing as .1 11 should be doing today, filling in for our Field 12 Superintendent. 13 Q. Was your relationship with him one just that you'd 14 recognize each other and say hello or something? 15 A A little bit more than that. 16 Qt How well did you actually know him? 17 A 18 Q. He was a good and trusted worker. I mean, did you go out to lunch with him or have a 19 beer with him? 20 A No, never happened. 21 MR. COHEN: Could I just bring out, Mr. 22 Fluharty is still with us, the references have 23 been in the past tense. 24 MS. PENNELL: It is my understanding he's ty/tAe> W S&Atcia/e&,, J?nc. PAGE 240 7 Stewart 1 no longer employed by Brand. Is that correct or 2 not? 3 MR. COHEN: That's correct, but you're 4 speaking of him as an entity that has passed on. 5 MS. PENNELL: I meant to speak of him 6 during the time I assume Mr. Stewart would have 7 known him. 8 Have you seen him since he quit work, 9 Mr. Stewart? 10 THE WITNESS: No. 11 MS. PENNELL: I did not mean to imply 12 Mr. Fluharty had gone to the great beyond. No 13 offense was meant to Mr. Fluharty. I'm delighted 14 that he's still with us. 15 MR. COHEN: I bet you are. 16 MS. PENNELL: No, I am, 17 MR. COHEN: Let's go. 18 BY MS. PENNELL: 19 Q. Did you ever meet with him socially? 20 A. No. 21 & Do you know who his friends were by any chance 22 during the time he worked with Brand? 23 A. No. 24 Q. To your knowledge, Mr. Stewart, at any time while dbyfcnleif Szhu>cta/e6>, J?ne>. i '8 " ^ ^ Stewart PAGE 241 , you were employed with Philip Carey or Brand, do you know 2 whether there were any specifications that required that 3 the materials used by Philip Carey or Brand should contain 4 asbestos? 5A Not specifically to say that they should contain 6 asbestos, but by product name, it identified products 7 that did contain asbestos. 8 Q. And those product names that would indicate they 9 had to have asbestos, those would have been the names 10 listed on specifications? A 12 Q. 13 A Right. Did you keep any copies of Union contracts? Yes. 14 Ql And how far back do your copies go? 15 A I don't have a 100% complete record, but I have 16 some that go back to 1957. - 17 Q. Would you attempt to get those and kind of set 18' them in a place for us? 19 MR. HAASE: The witness is nodding yes. 20 A I could refer you to the local Union, I'm sure 21 they have them 100%, and it's the same information, we i i 22 get them from the Union. 23 Ql Do you know whether Mr. Jacoby would have copies 24 of Union contracts? V S&saciae&>, Stewart PAGE 242 1A Probably. 2 Q. Were you ever involved in any Union negotiations 3 for the contracts? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And how far back would you have been involved? 6A 1958 to the present- 7 Ql Do you recall any discussion atany of those 8 negotiations concerning anything at all to do with safety? 9A Slightly, yes. 10 Ql Was safety a negotiable portion ofthe contract? 11 A It's really not a negotiable item. ' 12 Qt 13 A It is not? No. It's specifiedby law. We haveto protect 14 the workmen. 15 Ql In other words, you have to discuss safety with 16 the Union people? 17 A No, we are compelled by law to provide certain 18 things for safety, compelled by our conscience to provide 19 even more. a 20 Q. In any of the past Union negotiations that you 21 can recall from, I believe you said, 1958 -- 22 A 23 Q. Right. -- do you ever recall any of the Union negotiators I 24 requesting certain safety equipment, such as respirators or *nc. PAGE 243 0 Stewart 1 protective clothing? 2A I don't think it ever came up as a subject of 3 negotiation. 4 Ql Do you know whether any of the Union contracts from 5 1958 to date provided for anything like dirty money? 6 Do you know what I mean by dirty money? 7 A. Yeah, expenses, what we call it. 8 0- Expenses? 9 A. Did you say journeymoney? 10 Q. No, dirty money. 11 A. Dirty money, no, they didn't. 12 MR. HAASE: Do you know what that term 13 means? 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 Q. And what does dirty money mean to you? 16 A Well, working in a dirty atmosphere to get extra 17 pay for working in that atmosphere. 18 Q. Do you know whether those contracts had any such 19 provisions? - ai % 20 A I know they do not, did not and do not. 21 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Fluharty has filed a 22 Workmen's Compensation claim? 23 A I think so. 24 Do you know who's handling that claim on his -- 9? S^AAocia/eA, 3 244 PACE - 1 Stewart 1 MR. HAASE: On whose behalf? 2 MS. PENNELL: On Brand's behalf. 3 MR. HAASE: Our office is. 4 MS. PENNELL: Your office is? 5 MR. HAASE: Yes. 6 MS. PENNELL: Do you know the status of 7 that Compensation claim, Mr. Stewart? 8 THE WITNESS: No. 9 MS. PENNELL: Do you know whether there 10 have been any hearings? 11 MR. HAASE: There have not. 12 MS. PENNELL: Rather than tying up Mr. 13 Stewart's time, can we get any details on that -- 14 MR. HAASE: Yes. I'm just trying to figure 15 out how I'm going to remember to tell you. I'll 16 write myself a note. 17 . MS. PENNELL: I'll write you a note. 18 MR. HAASE: That would be the best. 19 BY MS. PENNELL: 1 j 1 j 20 Q. Mr. Stewart, from 1958 to date, has there been one 21 person or more than one person that would negotiate on 22 behalf of Local 14? 23 A. There's usually at least three people from the 24 Local and three people from the Philadelphia Contractors' W S4hu>cicUe&>, J?ru>. 1 245 PAGE . 23 Stewart 1 Association. 2 0- Is there anyone or any of the Union people who have 3 stayed the same through those years? 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 Q. They've all been different? 6A Yep. It changes every -- theyhave an election, 7 they get a new Business Agent and usually the whole group 8 of people go out and a new group of people come in. 9 Ql Do you have any recollection of any names? 10 A Yes. 11 Ql Could you give those to us and the years that you 12 believe they were Union representatives? 13 A Well, the only -- 14 MR. HAASE: Do you mean negotiators? 15 16 A 17 & 18 19 Q. 20 A MS. PENNELL: Yes. The only one I can be sure of is Mr. Hauber. How do you spell that? H-a-u-b-e-r. Do you know his first name? Everybody calls him Whitey. 21 & Whitey? 22 A But that was not his name and I cannot, for the 23 life of me, recall what his first name was. 24 0- When do you recall Mr. Hauber being a Union ty/iber V S^Aoc-ta/e^, jfno. 246 PAGE 24 Stewart 1 negotiator? 2A He was a Business Agent from 1958, I think it was, 3 until about a year ago, a year and a half ago. 4 ft So would he have come, to your knowledge, every 5 year from '58 until about a year and a half ago? 6A Yes. 7 ft Do you know whether the Local 14 has an attorney? 8A Yes, it -- yes, they do. 9 ft And who is their attorney? 10 A Lou Wilderman. 11 012 A 13 & Drew Wilderman? Lou. Oh, Lou Wilderman. 14 Other than the pay record which has been 15 identified as 5, or 4, the original was 4, the photocopy 16 was 5, do you keep any other records on your employees? 17 A Individual employees? 18 ft Right. 19 A No. 20 ft 21 A No type of a personnel folder at all? No. 22 ft When did you first become aware that Mr. Fluharty 23 filed this suit? 24 THE WITNESS: When did you tell me? 'sMcCtfisdetf tyl/iAe' V S?h&cuuae&, J?nc/. Stewart PAGE 247 1 QL Was it when your Counsel advised you? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. Prior to getting the Deposition Notice, were you 4 aware that this suit had been filed? 5 A. I don't think so. Well, we got Interrogatories 6 at some point. 7 Q. Do you recall when Mr. Fluharty filed his 8 Workman's Compensation claim? 9 A. No, I do not. 10 Q. Do you recall ever learning from Mr. Fluharty that 11 he had some type of illness? 12 A. I -- I know from his employment records that he 13 was off sick on occasion two or three different times. 14 I was not aware of what the sickness was. 15 Q. Do you ever require any type of doctor's 16 certificate when a man has been out to indicate that he is 17 in fact able to return to work? 18 A. We are not allowed to do that under Union rules 19 and regulations. 20 Q. And is that written, into the contract? 21 A No, it is not written in the contract. 22 0- Well, is there anything written to that effect? 23 A No. 24 0- Well, how do you know that then? sMcCtfift/etf Sllucuua/eA,, J?rv&. Stewart PAGE 248 1 I mean, I'm not trying to be fresh. 2 A. Okay. Well, if you try to keep a man from coming 3 back to work and suspect that he's not ready yet to return 4 to work, you get a call from the Business Agent and he 5 says, If you need men, here's the man, take him back. 6 Q. Does that payroll record -- I'm not sure if that's 7 actually what it's called -- does that reflect the reason 8 why an employee is not at work? 9 A. No, it only reflects the fact that he did work on 10 certain days a certain number of hours. 11 Ql Okay. How do you know then that Mr. Fluharty 12 was out for illness? 13 A. Well, he would call in. 3 He wouldn't appear on the \ 14 job and we'd get a call from either he or his wife saying 15 he was home sick. 16 & And how would you take the calls or -- 17 A. We have a small office, sometimes I might get the 18 call myself or one of the other two -- two or three other 19 people in the office. S ti 5 Vj -J 20 Qi Is there any written record made of that? 21 A. I doubt it very much. It would only appear that 22 he wasn't at work. 23 Q. So when you've indicated that you know he was out 24 for illness, this is just your recollection -- a y&stJeit/ uxuaiefr, Stewart PAGE 249 1 A. Yes. 2 0- -- of either you taking thecall orsomeone else 3 in the office taking a telephone call? 4A Right. 5 Q. And this may have been asked, but is there any 6 record-keeping policy for a job file as to how long you will 7 keep it? 8A I think theonly limitations are storagespace. 9 Once we run out of the drawer space, we clean out the oldest 10 one. But I do not know how long we retain them, quite a 11 long time. 12 ft Do you know whether your records for job files 13 do in fact go back to 1970 when Brand came into existence? 14 A Yes, that's where we were able to make this list 15 from. 16 ft. Do you know what illness Mr. Fluharty is claiming 17 he has? 18 A Only from reading the record, and I -- I think it 19 says asbestosis. 3 I 20 ft When did you first become aware that he was 21 claiming that he had asbestosis? 22 A Either when he filed a Workman's Comp claim or 23 when we were notified that he had entered suit, 24 ft Do you ever recall Mr. Fluharty complaining about S&AaciaUeA,, J$ru>. 3 250 PAGE . 28 Stewart 1 dusty conditions or work conditions in general? 2A I didn't have that much personal contact with him, 3 really. He would have complained the the Superintendent, 4 Mr. Romano, rather than to me. 5 Q. Would Mr. Romano ever report to you that employees 6 were complaining about job conditions? 7 A. Yes, we -- we talked over every aspect of the job. 8 Q. Do you recall Mr. Romano indicating to you that 9 employees have in fact complained about job conditions from 10 1970 until the present time? 11 A. Yes, we've -- we've had complaints at various 12 times, and as a result have either supplied coveralls or 13 respirators or -- 14 0- Are these complaints oral or written? 15 A To the best of my knowledge, they're always oral. 16 Q. Is there a grievance procedure ^between you and the 17 Union? 18 A. Yes. ' 19 & And do grievances have to be given to you in 20 writing? 21 A No, the grievances are handled' by the Trade Board, 22 the Joint Trade Board. If there is a grievance, the matter 23 is brought before the Joint Trade Board and hashed out 24 around the table much in the fashion of labor negotiations. 251 PAGE 29 Stewart 1 Q. Do you know whether grievances have to be in 2 writing to the Trade Board? 3A I know our side always presents any we have in 4 writing, I'm not sure whether the workmen do or not. 5 Q. Is there a Secretary or someone who's in charge 6 of keeping records for the Trade Board? 7 A. That alternates from year to year, either one of 8 the Employer members is the Secretary or the Union. 9 Q. Do you know who the present Secretary is? 10 A. I think it's the employer, Mr. Ed Hogstrom. 11 ft And from which company is Mr. Ed Hogstrom? 12 A 13 & He is with Associated Insulations in Norristown. In Norristown? 14 A Yes. 15 & Does the present Secretary for that year have 16 custody of any records that there might be from prior 17 years? 18 A Yes, yes -- I'm not sure what happens to the 19 records from prior years. 20 Q. Have you ever been a Secretary? 21 A I've never been the Secretary. I've been a member 22 of the Board on any number of occasions. 23 Q. Well, have you ever had custody of any records -- 24 A No. S&Aacia/e&, Stewart 252 PAGE 1 Qt -- from the Trade Board? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you know whether Brand currently and since 1970 4 subscribes to any Trade magazines? 5 A. Trade magazines? I don't think there are any Trade 6 magazines. 7 0- Does NICA have a Trade magazine they send around? 8A That comes as part of your membership through 9 NICA. 10 Q. Are there any othermagazines like that that 11 Brand gets or has gotten in the past? 12 A There's a mimeographed sheet that's put out by the 13 Eastern States Insulation Contractors Association, which j 14 is sort of an intermediary group between the Locals and 15 the NICA group. 16 Q. A 17 And is Brand a member of Eastern States? Yes. | 18 I forgot to mention that before. 3 19 Q. Now, Mr. Stewart, there were a bunch of papers 20 with holes on the side introduced as Exhibit 6, and I 21 understand that you brought those with you today? 22 A Yes. 23 Q. 24 A And those were just pulled from youroffice? Yes. i Szhuxcia/e&,, jfinc,. Stewart 253 PAGE . 1 Q. Are there more of those in your office than the 2 representative sample? 3A There may -- may very well be more of each of 4 those, hopefully there are. 5 Q. How did you decide which ones to bring if there . 6 are more back in your office? 7A We brought one of every one that we have available. 8 MR. HAASE: Do you mean were there more 9 of those type or more of each of those? 10 MS. PENNELL: More of those type. 11 A We brought one of each of the ones that were 12 available. .' 13 Ql Were you requested to bring those sheets from 14 various manufacturers or how was the request made that you 15 brought those in response to? 16 THE WITNESS: It was part of the stuff 17 you requested, wasn't it, that we bring -- 18 MR. COHEN: There's an attachment on the 19 Notice of Deposition, I don't specifically recall 20 the phraseology, but I think you have a copy of 21 the Notice, the original Notice that went out to 22 Mr. Stewart insofar as what it calls for in terms 23 of production. 24 0- And it's my understanding that those Stewart PAGE 254 are just things that were dropped off to Brand by various manufacturers' representatives or something? A. They're brochures from various manufacturers that we try to keep a supply of to give to our customers when they want to know more about a product. Q. Do you know how you came into custody of each of the ones you brought with you today? k Some manufacturer's salesman came by the office and brought them. 0- Okay. For example, for 6A, do you know who brought that one? k Specifically by name, I do not. . & And how about 6B? k Let's see. I don't specifically know any of the people that brought any of those. Q. And do you know when they were received by Brand? k No. They're all dated and they are periodically updated, the salesman drops by and just removes the old ones that are outdated and leaves us a new supply. Q. Did you bring the ones that are the most up to date to your knowledge? k I brought the only ones that we had, whatever they are. They are the most up to date. 0- So when you say you had duplicates back in your i dtcCfoi/eif tyl/iae, & S&AocialeA,, J$n&. Stewart 255 PAGE_________ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 - 24 office, they would just be more than one copy of exactly what is there? A. We probably have twenty-five or more of each -- of each one of these in our office. Q. Would they each have the same date? A. Yes. MS. PENNELL: Okay. Thank you. I have nothing further. EXAMINATION BY MR. PACE: Q. Mr. Stewart, my name is Sam Pace and I'm here for Keene Corporation. Earlier today and, I believe, at your earlier deposition you indicated that you were aware of the relabeling agreement that had been entered into between, I believe you said, Baldwin-Ehret-Hill -- A. Right. 0 -- andPhilip Carey? A. Right. * 0- How did youlearn about that agreement? A. I was told by my boss, Mr. Hoshaw, that during that time period, which I can't identify specifically, that we should place orders with Baldwin-Ehret-Hill rather than calling them into Cincinnati because they were here y&rdeif V Sihsacit J^ruy. I Stewart 256 PAGE 1 locally. 2 Q. Can you give me a rough approximation of the time 3 period? 4A It had to be maybe '58, '59. 5 Q. 6A And how long did it last? Not more than two or three years. 7 Q. Do you know who negotiated the agreement? 8A I have no knowledge. 9 Q. Would you tell us again the purpose of the 10 agreement? _ 11 A Well, since it's a large, bulky product and 12 relatively low price, it was done to save freight, get it 13 from the nearest source. 14 0. Would you characterize the agreement as ever having 15 been kept a secret? 16 MR. COHEN: Object to the form of the 17 . 18 A question. From whom? 19 Q. Was it basically common knowledge that this 20 agreement existed? 21 A I think it was about -- for most people in the 22 industry. 23 Q. Now, you talked about the Philadelphia Insulation 24 Contractors Association, PICA? rne>. Stewart 257 PAGE 1A Yes. 2 Q. Do you know when that was formed? 3 A. About '56, '55 or '56. 4 Ql And it is still in existence today. Is that 5 correct? 6A Yes, it is. 7 Ql It met monthly? 8A Yes. 9& Were there minutes kept of themeetings? 10 A Yes. 11 Q. 12 A 13 0- Do you know if the minutes are still in existence? i think Mr. Jacoby has a complete record. 5 3 j Do you know who the officers are now? 14 A President is David Andrews from AC&S, Vice 15 President is Ed Hogstrom from Associated Insulations. 16 Boy, we just had an'election. I can't 17 remember who the Secretary is. i i j 18 I'm on the Board of Directors. We only i 19 have nine members so the officers have to rotate pretty 20 frequently. We all get a turn-at being President. 21 0 Now, how many members were in the Association when 22 it was formed, approximately? . 23 A Seven or eight. 24 & And has the number stayed fairly constant? Stewart 258 PAGE_________ 1A Fairly constant. 2& What kind of functions did the Association 3 provide? 4 A. Primarily as a means of negotiating jointly with 5 the Union, that's the primary function. 6& What other kinds of things do they do? 7 A. Assign people to be on the -- be the trustees for 8 the joint -- the operating funds. It all has to do with 9 our dealings with the Union in some fashion. 10 Q. Did you name the members earlier? 11 A Beg your pardon? 12 & Did you name the members of the Association? 13 A I can try by company. 14 MR. COHEN: Are you talking about now, 15 Sam? 16 - MR. PACE: Right now. I 17 A Owens-Coming, Pacor, AC&S, Associated Insulations, j I 18 Brand Insulations, Universal Insulations. 19 That just demonstrates my memory's not 20 all that great. 21 Q. That's fine. 22 A If I had the Yellow Pages out of the phone book, 23 I could do it very quickly. 24 I can't recall who the other -- who I left V S&AacuzJeA,, Stewart \ 259 PAGE . 1 out at this point. 2 ft In the first part of your deposition, the one that 3 took place, I guess it was in December -- 4 MR. HAASE: November 16th. 5 ft -- November 16th, you indicated that at times you 6 acquired some products that you needed from sources such 7 as Johns-Manville and Ehret Magnesia. 8 Can you give us an estimate as to the 9 proportions of products which you used which were 10 manufactured by Philip Carey as opposed to the products 11 that you acquired from othercompanies? MR. COHEN: Whatperiod of time? \ 12 13 ft Well, what period of time would you be comfortable S 14 doing it for? 15 A. Well, during the time I was associated with Philip 16 Carey, I'd say 95%_of the products were Philip Carey ' ; j 17 products where they had a comparable product. Some product :j they didn't manufacture at all. | 18 19 ft That was up until 1970? ji 20 21 ft What percentage would you estimate of the products 22 were provided by Ehret Magnesia or Baldwin-Ehret-Hill. 23 A. During those days? 24 ft Yes. W S^i^ociaCe^, ^nc.. Stewart "N PAGE 260 1 A. Maybe 2%. 2 Qi Who did you deal with at Ehret Magnesia? 3A Mr. Satterthwaite. 4 Ql And how would you get theproducts that youordered 5 from him? Were they delivered by Ehret Magnesia? 6A Sometimes by their truck, sometimes we would make 7 a pickup. 8 Qi And when Baldwin-Ehret-Hill cameintobeing, who 9 did you deal with then? 10 A Same person. 11 12 13 EXAMINATION MR. PACE: That's all I have. MR. COHEN:Celotex. Thank you. j 'i 14 BY MR. JOHN: 15 Q. Mr. Stewart, my name is Edmund John and I 16 represent Celotex Corporation. - 17 A 18 I only have a few questions to ask you. Thank you. \ * j 19 Q. You had indicatedthat 1 in1970 when Brand purchased 20 Philip Carey's contractings unit, that all the records of 21 the contracting unit were shipped to Cincinnati. Is that 22 correct? 23 A Well, not immediately because we had some ongoing 24 contracts that we finished that Carey had partially done V S$b&aciafe&', I Stewart 261 PAGE____________ 1 and we completed them. We retained those records until 2 those jobs were completed and then they were sent down to 3 Cincinnati. 4 Qi Now, who's responsible for maintaining the records, 5 sir? 6 MR. HAASE: Which records? When? 7& First, the Philip Carey records? 8 MR. HAASE: Who was responsible for 9 maintaining them? 10 A I guess I had the ultimate responsibility. 11 Ql But did you have a clerk or secretary or individual ] 12 that was -- 13 A. Yes. . -j i 14 Ql -- that was responsible for the operation of the 15 office? 16 A. I had a secretary that did almost everything for 17 me from payroll -- 18 Q. What was her name? 19 A Cecelia Young. i | ,i 20 Ql Do you know where Ms. Young is- now? 21 A She's working for me in Essington. 22 Q. She still works foryou inEssington? 23 A Yes. 24 Q. Who made thedecisionof whatdocuments to send tyl/i&e' V S&Aociaiefr, J?n&. 3 Stewart 262 PAGE 1 back to Cincinnati? 2 A. I did. 3 ft Were all the documents that you maintained sent 4 back to Philip Carey or were some of those documents 5 destroyed? 6 A. We sent them all to Cincinnati, we didn't 7 destroy anything. 8 ft What did these records entail, sir? 9 A. Individual job folders, primarily, and then the 10 payroll records from that time period that we had. 11 ft Was there any particular individual that you 12 returned those records to in Cincinnati? 13 A. It might have been a guy named McClure or C. L. 14 Hoshaw. 15 ft One of those twoindividuals? 16 A. Yeah. - 17 ft Now, you indicated before that the materials, I 18 believe, were maintained in the warehouse, Philip Carey's 19 warehouse? 20 MR. HAASE: Are we talking about 21 insulation products? 22 MR. JOHN: Insulation products. 23 A Yes. 24 ft Were maintained in theSedgley Avenue Warehouse? Stewart PAGE 263 1 A. Yeah. 2 Ql And on occasion that material would be transported 3 to the job sites? 4A That was our sole reason for being,, you guessed 5 that. 6 Cl How would you transport the material, sir, to the 7 job sites? 8A Either by common carrier or on trucks. 9 Ql What kind of trucks did Philip Carey have? 10 A Beat-up, worn-out trucks. 11 Ql Were these vans? 12 A - 13 Ql Stake body trucks and small vans. Were there any distinctive markings on the truck 14 at all, sir? 15 A Only the Carey name on the side. 16 Q. What common carriers did you use? 17 A That's probably a misnomer. We had a contract 18 carrier that supplied a couple of trucks. His name was 19 Holmes, H--o-l-m-e-s. I 1 20 Q. Where was he located at? 21 A Somewhere over in Jersey around Pennsauken, I'm 22 not sure. That was a lot of years ago. 23 Q. I believe earlier you had indicated that you had 24 attempted to promote physical examinations of the employees-- Stewart ^ 264 PAGE_________ 1A Yes. 2 Ql -- and that thatmet withresistance. 3 Now, when was that first attempt made, 4 sir? 5 A. To the best of my knowledge, I don't know, '68, 6 '67, '68, somewhere in there. 7 Qt And that was by sending out the letters to the -- 8A Right. 9 Q. Now, whodecided tofollow that procedure of 10 attemting to get the membership to have -- 11 A Well, we were advised by Mr. Jacoby that this might 12 be a prudent thing to do. . 5* 13 MR. JOHN: Mr. Stewart, I have no further 3 14 questions. 15 16 17 18 19 EXAMINATION MR. COHEN: Mr. Meeley. MR. MEELEY: Mr. Stewart, Walt Meeley. I have nothing for you. THE WITNESS: Thank you. i 20 BY MR. MORGAN: 21 Qi Mr. Stewart, I'm David Morgan, I represent Owens- 22 Illinois Coming Glass Company. 23 First about Exhibits 2 and 3, are these 24 the only records that you have available to you of jobs 3 y&n/ey, W S&AactiaJeA,, jfinc,. Stewart 265 PAGE_________ 1 and materials used on those jobs by Mr. Fluharty? 2 MR. HAASE: Excuse me. Are you asking 3 whether Exhibits 2 and 3 are the only records? 4 0- I'm asking not the exhibits themselves, but the 5 information contained in the exhibits, is that the only 6 information available to you concerning the jobs that Mr. 7 Fluharty worked on and the products he used in those jobs 8 with Philip Carey or Brand? 9 A. Yes. 10, Q. . And the other information is in records in 11 Cincinnati? A. 12 That's right. We no longer have access to them 13 at all. :4 *4 !f i -i 14 & All right. Do you know the dates at which Mr. 15 Fluharty worked with Carey? 16 A No, I do not. I know that -- I remember Dan from 17 very early in my stay in Philadelphia and know that he was 1 .i 18 around periodically off and on. He didn't work continuously ; 19 with us, but I'm sure he was employed by Carey from 1957 on. 20 MR. COHEN: Excuse me, Mr. Morgan. 21 If I can, there was an exhibit that was utilized 22 in Mr. Fluharty's deposition that shows from 1938 23 through, I believe, '39 and then again another 24 period for Philip Carey and Brand. ^U/ttue* & JPnc-. 3 Stewart 266 PAGE 1 THE WITNESS: I have no reason to dispute 2 that at all. 3 Q. And you were employed by Philip Carey between what 4 dates? 5 A. I was employed by Philip Carey from January 15th, 6 1966, until February-something, 1971. 7 Q. And after that point you wereemployed by Brand? 8 A. 9 Q. Right. Would you have been aware during your period of 10 employment with Carey of any asbestos products used by 11 Carey and sent out for jobs they were performing? 12 A. In retrospect I amaware ofthem, yes. 13 Q. Were you in charge of ordering those products from 14 the manufacturers? 15 A. Either personally or somebody at my direction was. 16 Ql Were you aware of Carey's use of any asbestos 17 products manufactured by Owens-Illinois while you worked 18 for Carey? 19 A. Owens-Illinois? 20 ft 21 A. Yes No. 22 Q. Did you ever talk to anyone from Owens-Illinois 23 to order product? 24 A. I didn't know Owens-Illinois made anything out of Stewart 267 PAGE 1 asbestos. 2 MR- MORGAN: I have no more questions. 3 EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. BRUCH: 5 Q. Mr. Stewart, my name is Dan Bruch, I represent 6 Pacor, Inc. 7 In the previous questioning you were 8 referred to Job No. 359, Philadelphia Electric, 9 Schuylkill Station, which is part of Exhibit 2, and you 10 said that the two bottom products possibly contained 11 asbestos, and you further said, if I'm correct, that those 12 products were provided by Philadelphia Electric. 13 correct? Is that 14 A. To the best of my knowledge they were, yes. 15 & Did they direct you to use those products on that 16 job site? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did Mr. Fluharty ever call you in your office in 19 1978 and tell you that he was not going to be in to work 20 because he was involved in an automobile accident? 21 A. I don't recall. He didn't call me personally, no. 22 Specifically I can say that I do not recall him calling 23 anyone, he may have. 24 0- He did not call you. /dbytun/eif' W S^LaocicUba, J?no. 3 Stewart 268 PAGE_________ 1 Did he call anyone in your office? 2 A. He may have. I said I did not remember him calling n 3 he may have called someone. 4 Qi Do you know that Mr. Fluharty was in an automobile 5 accident in 1978? 6 A. No. 7 MR. COHEN: Object to the form of the 8 question. 9 Q. No? 10 A. No, I do not. 11 MR. BRUCH: For the record, I'd like to 12 say that as Counsel for Pacor, at the first 13 deposition of Mr. Stewart I was not present, 4 14 although I did come in the deposition at the 15 _ 16 17 18 19 time it was scheduled and Mr. Haase was involved in a train accident, and I received a copy of the October 24th letter. I just want to make that statement for my client. Thank you.' i i EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. COHEN: 21 Q. Just briefly, any brochures from companies who are 22 either distributors, manufacturers, suppliers relating 23 to products prior to, let's say, the Brand situation, would 24 they have been likewise sent back to Illinois? Stewart PAGE 269 1 A. No. 2 Ql Or to Ohio? 3 A. They would havebeendiscarded. By now theywould 4 be so outdated, you know, they wouldn't have any value to us 5 so we would not have kept them around. 6& Now, with respect tobrochures between, let's say, 7 1970 and the time that these were dropped off, what 8 brochures or publications are still in existence at Brand 9 in Essington now? 10 A. You have a copy of each and every one of them. 11 & Are these destroyed on a yearly or a semiannual 12 basis? . 1 13 A No, they're not. We never consciously destroy 4 | p t, 14 them. We may -- we run out of a supply or the salesman 15 comes in and takes away the old ones and gives us a current 16 supply. _ 17 Q. Okay. Now, with respect to minutes of meetings 18 for NICA or PICA in the Philip Carey period, where would \ i 19 those records be, to the best of your knowledge? 20 A The only two possible sources of any complete 21 records would be the PICA office or Mr. Jacoby's office 22 insofar as Philadelphia is concerned. 23 Q. There's one other Trade Association, that was the 24 Eastern States -- <^CcSZh&aciae&>, jtnc,. 1 Stewart 270 PACE_________ 1 A. Right. 2& -- Insulation Contractors Association? 3 A. Right. 4 Ql We did not discuss that on direct examination. 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Let me ask you, were there similar discussions in 7 that Trade Association that you've related to us with 8 respect to PICA and NICA? 9A 10 Q. Yes. And who was a member of the Eastern States 11 Association? 12 A For Brand? 13 Q. No, membership during thePhilip Careyperiod. 3 4 I 14 A Well, theyconstitute almost all thepeople who 15 are also members of the Philadelphia Insulation Contractors 16 and also contractors from Virginia, Connecticut, 1 17 Massachusetts, Rhode Island, all the states in the Eastern t 18 Atlantic Group except New York State, they have their own 3 19 independent association. 20 Q. And,,can you recall discussions relating to health 21 hazards occurring at the Eastern States Association? 22 A Yes, similar to the ones that occurred at 23 Philadelphia. 24 MR. HAASE: You mean, of course, & S3hiacuz6e&, J^nc-. 1 Stewart 271 PAGE_________ 1 discussion occurring relating to health hazards? 2 MR. COHEN: Okay. 3 MR. HAASE: You don't mean health hazards 4 at Eastern States? 5 MR. COHEN: No, discussions of health 6 hazards at the Association. 7 BY MR. COHEN: 8 Ql What period of time are you talking about that you 9 have your earliest recollection that health hazards 10 associated with asbestos were discussed at that Association? 11 A Roughly parallel to the same time period we were 12 considering here in Philadelphia, and that would be the | 13 late sixties. a 14 Ql 15 meet? And how often did the Eastern States Association 16 A Twice a year. _ 17 & Do you still presently attend meetings from that Association? 18 | I 19 A Yes. 20 Q. And where would minutes or publications :of that 21 agency be? 22 A Just so happens they share an office with the 23 Philadelphia Insulation Contractors Association, that would 24 be the most likely place to find them. 1 ty/tAe, Stewart 272 PAGE 1 Q. And do you know whether the Eastern States 2 Association had any individuals that were members of, 3 either members or trustees or management representatives 4 to any Unions within this particular area? 5A No. 6 Ql No, you do not know or no, there were none? 7A Well, the members were the same as the members 3 of the Philadelphia Insulation Contractors Association, 9 so the answer would have to be yes, because they were the 10 same people. 11 Q. In terms of Union discussions, were you aware of 12 a request for extra pay because of claims of working in 13 hazardous conditions? 14 A To my knowledge, no such request was ever made. 15 Ql Were you aware of any Union, and I'm not only 16 speaking of Local 14, any Union grievances with respect 17 to hazardous or poor working conditions, any grievances 18 against any company? 19 A 20 & 21 A 22 Q. Anywhere in the world? Okay, let me say in the Eastern States area. I can't recall any, no. Were you aware of any strikes by any employees of 23 any manufacturer occurring during the period you were 24 associated with Philip Carey or Brand because of health SS^Uacuz/e^, jfnc. Stewart PAGE 273 1 hazards associated with asbestos? 2 A. 3 4 I was -- MS. KENNEY: You mean manufacturer or contractor? 5 MR. COHEN: Manufacturer. 6 A. I know some of our suppliers who were the 7 manufacturers went out on strike. What the reasons were, 8 I have no knowledge. 9 MR. COHEN: All right. 10 (Deposition is concluded at 3:40 P.M.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 9? SZhuxucUeA,, ^no. 274 PAGE 1 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS 2 FOR PHILADELPHIA COUNTY 3 4 DANIEL R. FLUHARTY, JR., and MARY E. FLUHARTY, his wife. 5 Plaintiffs 6 vs. 7 JOHNS-MANVILLE CORPORATION, 8 et al 9 Defendants COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF PHILADELPHIA COUNTY JULY TERM, 1979 NO. 962 CIVIL TRIAL DIVISION 10 11 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania February 7, 1980 12 13 I hereby certify that I have read the 14 foregoing transcript of my deposition in the above-entitled 15 matter and it is true and correct to the best of my 16 knowledge and belief. 17 18 19 THOMAS G. STEWART 20 21 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THIS 22 , 1980. DAY OF 23 24 NOTARY PUBLIC stby&rdetf ty/cAes S.'iAacuze&. J?no. PAGE f ... LINE . CORRECTION PAGE CHANGE j \ REASON # - .- : '- *1 Ease! Line . - _" LAKYEH/S NOTES - . . - ' * . - ' . - ...... * ' . . ' ' ' ' -- ' _ * . '' . ' . ' * ;. I I i1 1 > - . '  ^ A Paqe 98 100 101 102 104 108 109 115 116 117 125 127 128 129 130 Summary of Thomas G. Stewart Taken February 7, 1980 Fluharty v JM et. al. July Term 1979 N 962 Testimony Thomas G. Stewart, 4 Edgewater Drive, Earleville, Maryland In the late '60's. Chuck Hoshaw, Cincinnati was General Manager over all contract branches (Philip Carey). At that time John Humphries was President of the company. There was a general discussion between Hoshaw and Stewart regarding the research the union was involved with regarding asbestos and if it was a problem. The union's reference was the "green sheets". There is a National Insulation Contractors Association (NICA) headquarters WA. D.C. Most major contractors around the country belonged to the National Group. i.e. Insulation Services, Tulsa, OK., Shook & Fletcher, somewhere in the southwest, Wallace & Gale, Baltimore, Porter Hayden Co, Robert A. Casbey Co, . N.Y. City. There were 2 meetings a yr. Philadelphia Insulation Contractors Association, Land Title Bldg. Rm 640. Approx. 1975, there was a discussion regarding physical exams for insulators by our (Brand) attorney, who attends all the meetings. There was no discussion regarding warning labels by the Philadelphia Insulators Contractors Association (PICA) anytime in the I960's or 1970's. There was discussion about dust monitoring around '75 or '76. We (Brand?) started using masks in 1969 or '70. About 2 yrs ago they started issuing complete body coverage. All workman in the immediate work site area were discussed as potentially being at risk. Counsel for PICA who advised examinations should be given was Myron Jacoby. He had his own law firm, now deceased. He was located in the bldg across from Union League, the Fidelity Bldg. Jacoby died about 2 yrs ago. His son Fred has assumed that role. There were several associates in that firm. The Joint and Trade Board consists of 3 members each from the Contractors Assoc, and the Union local 14. m W A ^ 131 132 143 146 148 150 164 165 166 167 68 169 170 171 175 Another group of PICA is the Trustees of the Welfare Plan and the Pension Plan. There are 4 members one of which is Stewart. Counsel for the Trusteeship is Jacoby's Firm. In re to answers to interrogatories filed by J-M specifically #3. A discussion in re to 4 separate grouped labels or warnings. Exhibit 3 shows shipping documents of materials, earliest date 1972. Exhibit 4 is employee payroll records. for every employee. Brand has a complete file Exhibit 2 on the upper left hand column it says "PA-140 Temple. PA is the designation of Philadelphia Branch Office, 140 is the job number and Temple is the job itself (Temple University). Stewart claims to the best of his knowledge Thermabestos did not contain asbestos. It contains calcium silicate which does not contain asbestos. M-50 cement Carey product in its original form yrs. ago did contain asbestos. Answer is the same for M-l. 303 cement was known as asbestos shorts and was totally asbestos. MW stands for Mineral Wool. MW-50, MW-1 and 7M-90 Cement were all powder form in bags. 7M-90, asbestos constituted almost the entire product. The same answer for 303 cement. He has no info about XL pipecovering that was before his time. Products that contained asbestos, Careycell pipecovering and board, aircell, Tempcheck pipe covering and block, and Hi-Temp pipe covering. Fibrous Adhesive Bonding does have asbestos fibers, it's in a mastic form, it is not in a friable form where it can be breathed. Other than Carey other manufacturers made Fibrous Adhesive Bonding. One was Benjamin Foster Co., Ambler, PA. He believes Foster is a subsidiary of Fuller. Second was Insulcoustic, Plainfield, N.J. Thirdly, its possible that Childers Company, Cleveland, OH., local branch Bristol, PA. Brand purchased asbestos cloth from Raybestos-Manhattan or Armatex. Stewart has no personal knowledge but he thinks he did hear there was an agreement between Carey and either Keene or Baldwin-Ehret-Hill to manufacture cements in the closest facility. Each would manufacture for the other, MW-l & MW-50.involved 219 220 221 227 229 237 246 250 251 252 256 257 258 260 271 The manufacturer for 48 Quick Set Cement is Forty-eight Insulation. The manufacturer for 60-26 Cl Mastic is Benjamin Foster. Exhibit 6 are brochures of various manufacturers that describe the various products of each. 6A is Foster, 6B Eagle Pitcher, <5C Keene, 6D Certainteed, 6E Certainteed, 6F Forty-eight Insulations, 6G Kaylo Ten, 6H Pabco, 61 Celotex, 6J Pittsburgh Corning, 6K Armatex, and 6L Atlas Insulation. He is not sure if they ever purchased asbestos cloth from Johns-Manville. He claims they did purchase calcium silicate from Johns-Manville. The specifications for a job would list the product, type and how to supply them. Lou Wilderman is the attorney for the union Local 14. There have been employee complaints about job conditions. Grievances are filed with the Trade Board, (see page 130) they keep records. In regards to trade magazines Brand has gotten a mimeographed sheet that is put out by the Eastern States Insulation Contractors Assoc, which is an intermediary group between the locals and the NICA. The relabeling agreement between Carey and Baldwin-Ehret-Hill was not a secret. The Philadelphia Insulation Contractors Association (PICA) the President is David Andrews, from AC&S, and Vice President is Ed Hogstrom from Associated Insulation. There are nine members, he is on the board of directors. Some members of the association is OCF, Pacor, AC&S, Associated Insulations, Brand Insulations and Universal Insulations. When dealing with Ehret Magnesia or Baldwin-Ehret-Hill he dealt with Mr. Satterwaite. The Eastern States Association shares and office with PICA. End of Dep CS/4-94