Document wDpYYvyXyZpknmJw4B0nJJm6

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT THIRD JUDICIAL CIRCUIT MADISON COUNTY, ILLINOIS JOSEPH BICK, ) ) Plaintiff, ) ) -vs- ) CAUSE NO. ) 08 L 865 A.W. CHESTERTON COMPANY, et al., ) Defendants. ) ) ) DEPOSITION OF RICK GIES Th, deposition up< RICK GIES, a witness produced and sworn before me, Debbi S. Austin, RMR, CRR, Notary P ublic in and for the County of Hendricks, State of Indiana, taken on behalf of the Plaintiff, at the offices of Cantrell Strenski & Mehringer, 2400 Market Tower, 10 West Market Street, Indianapolis, Marion County, Indiana, on the 30th day of April, 2009, commencing at 9:05 a.m. , pursuant to the Illinois Rules of Civil Procedure with written notice as to time and place thereof. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 2 APPEARANCES (CONT'D.) FOR THE DEFENDANT(S) JOHN CRANE, INC.: (Telepho nically) Mr. Scott Schmidt O'CONNELL TIVIN MILLER & BURNS LLC 645 Tollgate Road Suite 220 Elgin, IL 60123 847.741.4603 FOR THE DEFENDANT(S) FLUOR CONSTRUCTORS, FLUOR CORPORATION, and FLUOR ENTERPRISES, INC.: (Telephonic ally) Ms. Dominique Seymoure REED ARMSTRONG GORMAN MUDGE & MORRISSEY PC 115 North Buchanan P.O. Box 368 Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.0257 FOR THE DEFENDANT(S) GARLOCK, INC., GARLOCK SEALING TECHNOLOGIES and GARLOCK SEALING TECHNOLOGIES, LLC: Mr. Keith Hays SEGAL McCAMBRIDGE SINGER & MAHONEY, LTD. 233 SouthWacker Drive SearsTower Suite 5500 Chicago, IL 60606 312.645.7800 Page 3 Page 4 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF(S): 4 Mr. T. Barton French FRENCH & MUDD 5 One Metropolitan Squ 211 North Broadway 6 Suite 2940 St. Louis, MO 63102 7 314.244.1397 8 9 FOR THE DEFENDANT(S) MARATHON PETROLEUM COMPANY: 10 Ms. Anne B. Schmidt HEPLER BROOM MacDONALD HABRANK 11 TRUE & NOCE LLC 103West VandaliaStreet 12 Suite 300 P.O.Box 510 13 Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.0184 14 15 FOR THE DEFENDANT(S) J.P. BUSHNELL PACKING 16 SUPPLYCO.: (Telephonically) 17 Mr. Gregory Dioneda 18 MOSER & MARSALEK, P.C. 200 North Broadway 19 Suite 700 St. Louis, MO 63102 20 314.421.5364 21 22 23 24 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION PAGE DIRECT EXAMINATION.............................................. 7 Questions by ^4r. T. Barton French CROSS-EXAMINATION................................................ 138 Questions by Ms. Anne B. Schmidt 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 INDEX OF EXHIBITS PAGE Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit No.: 1 Second Amended Notice of Discovery ...... 7 Deposition 2 Notice of Discovery Deposition ............. 8 3 Curriculum Vitae ....................................... 9 4 Safety Manual 1 ......................................... 45 5 Safety Manual 2 ......... .............................. 45 6 Fire, Safety, and Security .................... 51 Contractors' Procedure Manual 7 Corporate Risk & E nvironmental .. ......... 64 Affairs Guide 1 (Pages 1 to 4) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 5 (Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit(s) 1 and 2 were marked for identification.) MR. FRENCH: This is Bart French for plaintiff. Before starting, I need to note that Marathon has still not produced documents in discovery, discovery that plaintiff has been seeking since November 2008. ^My understanding is that Mr. Gies is one of the persons most responsible for obtaining these documents. After two motions to compel filed by plaintiff and much correspondence, an agreed discovery order requires that Marathon produce all responsive documents to plaintiff today on April 30th at our St. Louis office. Ill note that I do have a couple of things that were sent electronically on my way to Indianapolis, and today defense counsel did provide me with some documents. And Ill just note what they are, but I don't -- I don't believe this covers all of our discovery requested. One document is entitled "Corporate Risk & Environmental Affairs Guide by Marathon Oil Company." It's a document of many pages in 200length, somewhere in the order of pages or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 12 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 Page 7 plaintiff's motion to strike Marathon witnesses. And I'm prepared to begin now. MS. SCHMIDT: Well, I'd like to make a response to that. MR. FRENCH: Sure. MS. SCHMIDT: As far as the discovery responses are concerned, we have an agreed order that the documents that are required -- or that we have been requested by plaintiff's counsel would be provided today and that -- you know, and they will be, pending -- or barring the case being resolved before the end of the day. RICK GIES, having been duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth relating to said matter was examined and testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION, QUESTIONS BY MR. T. BARTON FRENCH: Q ^Mr. Gies, again, we met briefly before the deposition, and my name is Bart French. I am the attorney for plaintiff, one of them. And I'd like to ask you first just to look Page 6 better. There s also two safety manuals; one a Safety Manual 1, Safety Rules and Safe Practices, Refining Organization, Marathon Oil Company, and Safety Manual 2, Safe Handling of a Hazardous Materials Refining Organization, Marathon Oil Company. They're undated. And my understanding too is that the witness, Mr. Gies, brought in a couple of documents which may or may not be the exact same versions of these same documents, the last two documents, Safety Manual 1 and Safety Manual 2. I would note that it has been quite a process just to have Mr. Gies available for deposition. I think there's quite a bit of ground that can be covered today. However, depending upon what information is produced today in discovery, and obviously has not been received nor reviewed before this deposition, plaintiff reserves the right to redepose N4r. Gies prior to trial. This, of course, would be if Mr. Gies is allowed by the court to testify at trial depending upon the outcome of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 8 at this document, which is the Second Amended Notice of Discovery Deposition which has been marked as Gies Exhibit 1 and tell me if you have seen this document before today. A I have seen Exhibit A prior to today. Q Okay. And that's probably the most interesting point. I'll note that there is a Plaintiff's Exhibit Gies 2 which contains the exact -- that was actually originally set for May 5th, based upon correspondence we had, we thought that we were setting this up for May 5th. And so but the Exhibit As on both of these exhibits are exactly the same. And in response to the Exhibit A, did you bring any documents with you today? If you want, sure (hands document). A Yes. I brought the response to No. 1, which was the current curriculum vitae. Q Okay. A The other piece of information would have been the two small refinery safety handbooks. MR. FRENCH: Okay. And I think with the resume or the CV, let's mark this as Gies Exhibit 3. 2 (Pages 5 to 8) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 9 Page 11 (Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit(s) 3 was marked for identification.) Q And its my understanding that the two pamphlets that you brought in today are currently being copied, so probably later in the deposition we may mark those as well. A Yes. Q And Exhibit A asks for a number of other categories of information, but that is the sum and total of what you brought today are the three documents you've described today? A That s correct, aside from the two previous depositions that -- that I had given. Q Okay. And I'll note that I do have two prior depositions that were provided by defense counsel before today, and that is the Lenora Satterfield v. Marathon case that was filed apparently in Lawrence County, Illinois, from February 2001 there was your deposition, and the William Shaw and Joseph Kadivnik, and I'll spell that last name, K-A-DT-V-NT-K, cases from April 2006 in Marion County, I believe that is? MR. HAYS: It's Kadivnik. MS. SCHMIDT: Kadivnik. There's no I in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 10 1 1 12 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 9 2 0 1 2 3 4 Page 10 just some responses to interrogatories that I might have had in the past. Q Okay, I understand. And just if there are, and I ve asked defense counsel informally, but I would make this request, if there are additional transcripts, either deposition or trial, where you've testified in an asbestos case, I would ask those be produced to plaintiff -- to me. MS. SCHMIDT: And for the record, I spoke with Bart this morning about this, ]Mr. Gies checked his records to determine whether he had any other transcripts and did not find any. Marathon is checking their files to see if they can find any other transcripts and have not been able to find them. And so were doing our best to find them, and if we do, we'll pass them along. MR. FRENCH: Understood. BY MR. FRENCH: Q Mr. Gies, what I'd ask you to do now, if you could detail for us what you have done to prepare for today's deposition. I have reviewed the two previous depositions. A Q The ones that I've just mentioned? Page 12 there. I mean, there s an I in there, but not where you put it. MR. FRENCH: ^Whats the correct spelling, o do you know; MR. HAYS: K-A-D-I-V-N-I-K. MS. SCHMIDT: Oh, it is right. But it's not Kadivnik? MR. HAYS: It's Kadivnik. MR. FRENCH: Oh, okay. BY MR. FRENCH: Q And those were in two asbestos cases; is that 9 correct. A That s correct. Q I notice that in -- I believe the William Shaw deposition, you had given an estimate of being deposed in about five asbestos -- four or five asbestos cases. Is that -- is that correct? A ^Was the Shaw the one with Kadivnik, or was it -Q Yes, yes. A Yes, and at that point in time I thought that I may have had some earlier depositions for asbestos. I might have confused that with some benzene depositions that I had done or possibly 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A The ones that you ve just mentioned. Q Okay. A And I ve also looked at the two small pamphlets that we have provided to you, the refinery safety handbooks. Aside from that, it's just been some discussions with counsel. Q And I don t think I m going to ask you about those discussions with counsel. Are you represented by K4s. Schmidt today in this proceeding, is that your understanding?9 A Yes. And without revealing any of the substance of Q the conversations that you ve had with Ms. Schmidt, how many -- when did you first talk with Ms. Schmidt about this case of Joseph Bick or talk with any member of her law firm, Hepler Broom? It's probably been within the last month. I A don't recall that it was earlier than that. MS. SCHMIDT: Yeah, I don 't believe so, no. In fact, it's been within the last just few days. THE WITNESS: Okay. 3 (Pages 9 to 12) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 13 Q And how did that first contact -- how was it o made to you: A It was made by way of a Marathon attorney. Q And who is that Marathon attorney that first 9 contacted you: A Michele M^alloy. Q And can you give me just a very brief background on Ms. iMalloy, how -- is she in-house counsel, is she an outside firm that is not Hepler Broom, or who is she?9 A I believe she's employed directly by Marathon, so she works out of the Houston office, the Houston law organization, Marathon's Houston law organization. Q Okay. And then what was your next contact about the -- or what did you do next? You were contacted by Ms. Malloy about this case. ^Vhat happened next? A The -- I think the process was where -- that I would have contact with Anne Schmidt, and she would provide documents that I should review in preparation for this deposition. Q And are there any documents other than the ones that you've already described that you reviewed 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 14 9 in preparation for this deposition? A No, there are not. Q Okay. You did not review, for example, plaintiffs discovery and/or evidentiary depositions in this matter?9 A I m sorry, say that again, please. Q Sure, sure. There have been discovery depositions and evidentiary depositions taken earlier in this case of Joseph Bick who's the plaintiff in this matter. Did you review any of his testimony in preparing for today'1s deposition?9 A I have not. Q Have you reviewed the testimony of any other 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 3 4 witness in this case or any other potential witness in this case in preparation?9 A I have not. Q Have you worked with Ms. Schmidt or the Hepler Broom law firm before in a Marathon asbestos case?: A I don't believe so. MS. SCHMIDT: Well, and if I could clarify, in the Satterfield case, I wasn't with the firm at the time, but we represented Marathon locally 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 Page 15 in the Satterfield case that he was involved in. Q Okay. My understanding is that reviewing -- and I'm going to try not to go into areas that have been dealt with in some detail in your previous depositions. I have had an opportunity to read them. I will follow up with some questions that either it wasn't clear to me or I think needs some following up. ^Was it -- I understand the Lenora Satterfield case was the first time that you were involved in any way in an asbestos case on behalf of Marathon; is that correct? A I may have provided some assistance support to the law organization by way of interrogatories in some earlier asbestos cases, but from what I can recall, that's the first deposition that I would have given. Q Okay. Have you ever testified at trial on behalf of Marathon in any type of matter? I have not. A Q Have you -- are you aware of Marathon being in trial since your association with Marathon, which I believe began in 1977? A Cor rect. Page 16 Q Are you aware of ^Marathon being in trial in an asbestos case since 1977? MS. SCHMIDT: Well, I'm going to object as far as the characterization of being in trial. I'm not sure what you mean by that. You mean start trial, you mean to verdict, 9 what do you mean: Again, the question is just your awareness, has Q Marathon been in trial in any capacity since you started in 1977 in an asbestos case? MS. SCHMIDT: If you understand that question, go ahead and answer it. A Not that I m aware of. Mr. Gies, I'm looking at your CV, which is Q Exhibit 3, and I understand that you retired from Marathon in 2007, or was it 2008? A 2007. Q Okay. And when did you retire? A August 1st, 2007. Q Congratulations. A Thank you. And have -- are you completely retired now, Q or -- in terms of are you doing any other outside jobs, even not associated with Marathon? 4 (Pages 13 to 16) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 25 interrogatories was approximately three hours. Q I have a few questions -- just one moment -- about the interrogatories themselves. Could you -- I m going to hand you a copy, and I have kind of a work copy for myself. Could you turn to page 46. And 46 is Marathon s answer to Interrogatory No. 42. I m not going to read the entire question. You certainly can take the time to do so if you want to. I really just have a question about the last paragraph of the answer. And if you could read the last paragraph of the answer which is on page 46, where it starts, Studies of. A Studies of and control of airborne dust conditions began at the Robinson refinery in the 1970s, and it is believed that airborne dust level measurements by safety personnel began there in the early 1970s. Formal documented studies of airborne dust conditions at the Robinson refinery began in 1977." Q Okay. Obviously it's -- that's two sentences, and I have questions about the first sentence. It's my understanding that you believe from talking to people when you started at Marathon 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 26 Page 27 1977? A I have not. Q How did -- am I correct in this -- the sentence that we just read on the interrogatory answer, that was information that you supplied?9 A That s correct. Q How did you come to that understanding, that there were studies done, but you've never seen the results?9 A From a document that had been prepared in the mid 1970s, probably 1974 perhaps, that indicated that an individual had done -- had undergone training to do air monitoring using the NIOSH sampling methodology, and some discussion, again, in that memo with an individual at one of our refineries that indicated that this type of monitoring is the approach to take for asbestos. Q Who was the individual that had the training that you're referring to? I believe his name was John Parziale. A Q Do you know, did you get to know -- was K4r. Parziale still employed by Marathon when you got there in 1977? A Yes. Page 28 O' o o 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 in 1977 that you believe by talking to others that there were dust studies conducted at Marathon? A That s correct. Q And were those done like for the -- I guess I would call them bulk samples -- not bulk samples, where they were done on personal monitoring systems, or was it done in a way that was measuring dust concentrations within certain areas of the refinery?o A I don t know the answer to the question as to whether it was personal monitoring or area monitoring, but the information that -- that was -- that I had reviewed indicated that it was essentially done using the same methodology, which is a portable sampling pump with a small filter attached, which normally you would use for personal monitoring, but if you put it in an area of the facility, it can also be used for area monitoring as well. Q Have you ever actually seen the records, and by records, I mean the results of those air monitoring which you've heard was done prior to your -- prior to you getting to Marathon in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 And I understand he retired sometime during your 9 tenure A That s correct. Q Do you know if M4r. Parziale is still alive? A I do not. Q And, therefore, you don't know any contact information or how to get ahold of him?9 A I do not. Q Do you know which individual or individuals were monitored?9 A I was not aware of any individuals that were monitored. It was -- the idea of the -- of the memo was essentially saying that this methodology is available for -- for use at the facility. Okay, okay. So the methodology was available, but you don't know if it was actually done at Robinson, during the time prior to 1977? My recollection was that the memo that I saw was A in reference to Texas City. It was not in reference to the Robinson refinery. All right. So you don t have -- do you have -- you don't have any indications one way or another whether monitoring, air monitoring was 7 (Pages 25 to 28) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 41 or whatever the case may be would be to determine the nature of the material that they were working with and treat it appropriately. Q Did abatement activities continue through your retirement at Marathon for asbestos? A Yes. Q Was there asbestos thermal insulation still in place when you retired at Marathon in 2007? A Yes. Q Are you aware of any abatement activities done since your retirement at Robinson? A I am not. Q Have you been to Robinson since your retirement? A I have not. Q Have you spoken to anybody at Robinson about any abatement activities since your retirement in 2007? A I have not. Q Okay. If you -- I think you still have a copy of the interrogatories there. I'd like you to turn to page 54, and again, I m looking at an answer that was given in response to Interrogatory 50, and the -- I'm looking at the last paragraph after Marathon has provided some 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 42 Page 43 question? He s talking about the information contained in the statement. Q And just to give you a little context of this. I mean, I m a lawyer. I understand that, you know, everything in here as an answer was drafted by Marathon lawyers in some capacity. What I m really interested in, though, is the underlying information, who provided the underlying information so that this response was drafted. My understanding from what you re saying is you, and I want to know if there s anybody else who provided information -- the underlying information so that this response could be drafted. A Yes, I provided part of the information in connection with this paragraph. I think the other part of the information was provided, as you've indicated, by Marathon counsel who has a number of these materials available at their disposal. Q Okay. Why don t -- why don t we just concentrate on -- well, let me ask this: Do you know if there are any other nonlawyer types who Page 44 objections. Did you -- first of all, did you provide the information necessary for ^Marathon to answer this question? And I m not talking about the first paragraph which is the objections which I m guessing was done by legal counsel. A Okay. So we re talking about the safety handbooks, we re talking about the standard operating procedures manual, which I have a corporate guideline. Q And feel free to read the entire paragraph, and I may have -- because I may have several questions about it. And take your time, and when you're done reading that paragraph, please let me know. A Is your question whether I assisted in formulating this statement? Q Yes. A Yes, I did. Q Did you -- were there others who helped in putting together the information for this statement besides you? A Yes. MS. SCHMIDT: Now, you understand his 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 provided information necessary to answer this, are you aware of any: A Not that I m aware of. Okay. What information were you able to provide Q Marathon, which parts of this paragraph did you provide information on and what parts of this did you not provide information on?o A To the extent that there was information in the refinery safety handbooks regarding insulation and the handling of insulation, I think I may have identified that particular section. Q That s -- and that s the books that were available prior to your arriving there?9 That's correct. A Q ^Would that -- are those -- are there -- those 9 boo ks ? MS. SCHMIDT: Here they are. MR. FRENCH: Oh, they re back, okay. MS. SCHMIDT: Yes. There s a couple of copies there and the originals. MR. FRENCH: Okay. BY MR. FRENCH: Let s have you look at this one, and I m going Q to -- actually, look at both of these. And if 11 (Pages 41 to 44) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 45 the court reporter would just take a moment to -- MS. SCHMIDT: I think there s two copies of each. MR. FRENCH: -- to mark these two as the next exhibits in line. (Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit(s) 4 and 5 were marked for identification.) Q Okay, we took a very short break so the court reporter could mark two documents; the Safety Manual 1 as Exhibit 4, and Safety Manual 2, Exhibit 5. And I believe these are copies of the two pamphlets that you brought in today; correct? A That s correct. Q Are these the manuals you're referring to when you say that there was -- safety handbooks began at Miarathon Oil in the 1970s, or is it different information? A That is the information that I was referring to. MS. SCHMIDT: And I'm sorry, just for the record, we're assuming that the copies that were made are page by page the same. We haven't gone through them page by page, but they were made of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 46 Page 47 Q Right, and 111 -- if I may interrupt you, and I ll get there. I will definitely get there. Those will be some of my next questions, but just for this statement, okay, Verbal orientations on asbestos in coverage via safety handbooks began at Marathon Oil in the 1970s. And so the record is clear and my question is clear: Were there any other safety handbooks that you are referring to other than Exhibits 4 and 5? A Basically it would be the same handbook that we re referring to except that it might have been an earlier version of what we have in front of us. Q Understood, okay. I want to go back -backtrack for just a moment. You were giving your opinion, you were giving your statement as to what was contained in the thermal insulation when bulk analysis was done. Do you know what -- for the gasket, which I understand was a much more limited bulk supply analysis done, do you know what type of substance you had seen in the gaskets based upon Page 48 the books that ]Mr. Gies is referring to. MR. FRENCH: Thats my assumption too, and obviously -- MS. SCHMIDT: If there's a page missing or something -MR. FRENCH: Yeah, it would be corrected. MS. SCHMIDT: -- it's not by any kind of antics. MR. FRENCH: Well, there's plenty of those. So yes, it's my understanding, and I have not had a chance to review, nor has anybody else had a chance to review, the copies, but it's my understanding, what I'm referring to as Safety Manual 1 and Safety Manual 2, the two pamphlet form of documents that Mr. Gies brought in with him today. MS. SCHMIDT: Uh-huh. BY MR. FRENCH: Okay. Besides these two documents, were you Q referring to any other information for that statement about safety handbooks began at Marathon Oil in the 1970s? A Yes, there s another statement, and it reads, "In 19- --April 1977." 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 9 the reports done on the bulk analysis; A I don t recall. Q All right. And going back -- sorry to jump around, but going back to this answer on page 54 that we're discussing, it also notes that, "Marathon Oil Company also disseminated asbestos information through its standard operating procedures manuals. What are you referring to, then, as -- or what is referred to there as -- what is a 9 standard operating procedure manual; A A standard operating procedure manual is one that the facility would develop, essentially providing the information that's needed to be communicated to employees. Are those standard operating procedures manuals, Q are they also disseminated to outside 9 contractors who work at the facility; I'm not aware of that practice. A Q Okay. Do you think that that practice happens? A I personally think that there was communication of that kind of information to contractors. Why do you say that? Q I say that because of maybe understanding a A 12 (Pages 45 to 48) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 49 history of how Marathon works with its contractors. Marathon has always been concerned about contractors or other people that are not employees that are coming onto their property and wants to provide a safe working environment for them as well. Q And consistent with that concern, what type of actions did Marathon undertake in the mid 1970s to inform outside contractors, such as boilermakers, about the dangers at the refinery in general? A I am not aware of any specific practices that they may have employed. I'm not aware of any formal evidence to indicate that there was that kind of communication going on. Q Do you know whether there -- I mean, so a more simple question, do you know whether any communication was being done in the mid 1970s from Marathon to outside contractors? A I think we have one document, and as a standard operating procedure, that refers to some communication with contractors, but I don't recall the date of it. And I think it's probably in one of the -- one of the documents 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 51 think is the document which was a standard operating procedure as what was communicated to contractors. THE WITNESS: Okay. (A recess was taken.) 6(Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit(s) was marked for identification.) Q Back on the record after a short break. At the break, Mr. Gies, I had the court reporter mark as the next exhibit in line Gies 6Exhibit . The -- it consists of a cover letter dated November 23rd, 1982, and then the rest of the document is something entitled "Marathon Oil, Robinson, Illinois, Contractors' Securities Procedures and Regulations Manual." And I'm going to ask you to -- ask you some questions about that. A Yes. Q Okay. Is this the document you were referring to when you said that you believe there was a standard operating procedure in regard to o contractors: This is the document that I guess I was A referring to as an example -- Page 50 that we have here, if we could check the data on that. Q Okay. ^Why dont we take a moment to do that. I m not sure what documents you re -- MS. SCHMIDT: I believe, if we re thinking of the same thing, I believe it was an exhibit to his deposition in Kadivnik. MR. FRENCH: I don't know if I have -- if you give me a moment. I don't know if I've seen those exhibits. MS. SCHMIDT: I gave them -- we gave you those exhibits when we gave you that deposition. MR. FRENCH: Okay. I'm not saying you didn't. I'm just looking. MS. SCHMIDT: Well, okay. No, I just want to get on the record that we did. And I have them here if you don't have them with you. But there were four exhibits to his deposition in Kadivnik, two of which were notices, I believe, and two of which were all Marathon company documents. MR. FRENCH: Let's just go off the record for just a moment, because I'd like you to basically get that document and show me what you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 110 1 1 112 1 3 1 4 5 1 6 17 18 1 9 2 0 21 2 2 2 3 24 Page 52 Q Right. A -- of a standard operating procedure that existed in 1982, and in all likelihood, some form of it existed earlier than 1982. Q Do you have any -- have you seen any such manuals that -- that are dated prior to 1982? A I have not. Q If there are such manuals prior to 1982 which would apply to ^Mr. Bicks situation, I would ask that they be produced by Marathon. If you could turn to the -- the last page -- well, second to last page. I think there's actually a section on asbestos policy. A Yes. Q And if you would, if you could read that section in its entirety. "Prior to working with insulation, Garlock A gaskets, packing glands on pumps and valves, et cetera, the contractor will determine if the material contains asbestos. This can be accomplished by contacting the Marathon representative that is in charge of the project. If the material is determined to contain asbestos and it will produce airborne asbestos 13 (Pages 49 to 52) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 53 Page 55 dust, it will be handled only by qualified personnel as outlined in the OS^^A asbestos Standard 1910.1001. Contractors will stay out of areas that are roped off with yellow asbestos barricade tape. No one is to enter the area without proper personal protective equipment (respirator, disposable coveralls, head coverings, gloves, and foot coverings). All nonasbestos insulation is identified with a speckled-type insulation." Q Okay. Is it correct to state that that was Marathon Robinsons asbestos policy in regard to outside contractors as of 1982? A I don't know if we could call it their policy. What we can call it is this was their standard operating procedure as to how they would deal with asbestos in the plant in 1982. Q And you don't have information as to whether or not that policy was in place prior to the date of this document of 1982; is that correct? A I do not. Q Thank you. Okay, the next thing I'd like to ask you about is going back to the answers to interrogatories. I think you still have it open 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 110 1 12 3 14 15 16 7 1 8 19 2 0 1 2 2 23 2 4 Page 54 that I personally have ever seen it, but I m 1' T> sure that its available, and m sure that i it s -- MR. FRENCH: I hope it s part of today s discovery, but if it s not, I would definitely request a copy of that. MS. SCHMIDT: Well, and I -- go ahead, I 'm sorry. MR. FRENCH: Go ahead. MS. SCHMIDT: No, that's okay. BY MR. FRENCH: Mr. Gies, I -- you talked about this 1977 Q guidelines a little bit, and I just want to confirm some things and ask some other questions. Was it James Slaughter who drafted this guidelines which was -- was it part of the Health and Safety -- excuse me, let me start over. Was this guidelines on asbestos in 1977, was that part of the overall document, the health and safety guidelines;9 A That s correct, it was a part of a binder that contained other guidelines besides asbestos. Page 56 to that page 54 where we ve been going over some things. It states that, In April 1977, a former corporate guideline for asbestos exposure control program was implemented at Marathon." And I have a few questions about that, if you give me just a moment. Do you have a policy of that 1977 -- and I think you previously described that as a guideline; is that correct? A The title of the document that -- that this is referring to was a health and safety guide. Q Okay. A So I guess by virtue of having guide in the title would suggest that it was a guideline. Q And do you have a copy of that 1977 document? A Yes, we have a copy of it. I thought maybe that was provided with these earlier documents, but evidently not. This here, the corporate risk and environmental affairs guide was a later version of that document. Q Okay. MS. SCHMIDT: I dont have a copy of that with me, this 1977 document today. I don t have it with me today. And frankly, I don't know 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q And just to be clear, my request would be for the whole binder, including the guidelines on asbestos. MS. SCHMIDT: Bart, one thing that -- one thing I do have with me are copies of two of the things that we disclosed on our exhibit list and provided to you that may actually be part of the health -- because it was a binder, there were apparently -- well, I'm not testifying, of course, but what we provided to you on our exhibit list may be a part of what's contained in that binder in total. MR. FRENCH: Okay. Well, that actually -just so it's not confusing, if the whole binder 1977as it existed in is produced as one document so that it's not confusing, because it does get confusing to things that are updated over various years, but what's important that I'm asking for is the document, the whole binder, as it existed in 1977. MS. SCHMIDT: Okay. BY MR. FRENCH: Q My understanding from previous testimony is that James Slaughter was the author of the -- now, 14 (Pages 53 to 56) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 57 Page 59 I m not sure if that s the health and safety guide in total or if that was just on the 77 asbestos guidelines. A I believe James Slaughter was the author of the entire binder. Q Okay. Did you provide any information for the 1977 guidelines just on the asbestos part? A I did not, because it predated my arrival. Q It did predate, okay. So it was drafted in 1977, but in months prior to your arriving there; is that right? A Correct. I think the date was April of 1977, and I arrived in August. Q Because it was a guideline, it's my understanding that the individual facilities, such as Robinson -- and this was a guideline issued by corporate in Findlay, Ohio; is that 9 correct: A That's correct. Q And because it was a guidelines, it was not something that corporate required the managers of the individual facilities to follow; is that correct? A I think it could be interpreted that way. It's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 58 add to anything? You mentioned a condensation of OSHA. Did they add to any of the OSHA 9 require ments: A I don t recall that there was anything that supplemented what OSHA had required. ^What I - I do think the intent of that was to reemphasize those key points in making sure that the facilities understood they needed to do these. Q And that __ and those 77 guidelines were intended for employees of ^Jarathon; correct? A That's correct. Q And not for outside contractors? A The guidelines were directed at employees, but I think that there was probably an underlying belief that not only should our employees follow the OSHA requirements, but our contractors as well. And I think to a certain extent, in any contracts, written, formal contracts with contractors, there was a statement that they will, essentially, follow governmental requirements, including OSHA. Q These written __ these guidelines were not the written guideline -- it was in a written form 9 obviously, correct: Page 60 interesting that many times facilities interpret corporate guidelines as being essentially required to do even though they were intended as guidelines. Q ^Were there -- do you know -- you don t know the extent to which Robinson was complying with the asbestos guidelines in 1977; is that correct? A If I could maybe qualify something about those 1977guidelines. Those guidelines, those guidelines, were essentially a condensation of what OSHA had required in their standard, and so what was available to our facilities was the entire standard, and what this guideline was doing was taking excerpts from that and essentially saying, bare bones, this is what is required for you to do that. But I think the answer to your question is that the facility was operating consistent with OSHA requirements in 1977, which would have included the OSHA asbestos standard that was promulgated in 1972. Q Unfortunately, we don t have the 1977 guidelines in front of us today, but based upon your recollection, did those guidelines by Marathon 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A The 1977 guidelines? Q Yes. A Yes, correct. Q They were not given to outside contractors; is 9 that correct: A I am not aware of that. Q Would you agree that because the written guidelines were not given to ^Jarathon and outside ^Jarathon, that it would be important for ^Jarathon to communicate about where __ No. 1, where asbestos was in Jarathon s facilities? A Well, first of all, I don't know that they weren't given to outside contractors. Q Okay. A They may have been. In terms of whether there should have been communication to contractors about hazards in the work area, I think this 1982 document has indicated that __ and again, if -- you know, if you can say, okay, what they were doing in 1982 is -- would have been something very similar to what they were doing in the 1970s. Q You re making that assumption? A I am making that assumption, but I'm also makin g 15 (Pages 57 to 60) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 65 Page 67 it's dated 4-6-84. And if you could -- would you confirm that this is the document that you were referring to in the interrogatory answer as the corporate guideline was updated and it required that a formal asbestos health monitoring program be established at each facility;? A This is the document that s referenced, yes. Q Okay. My understanding, and correct me if I m wrong, is that this was drafted by a number of people, including yourself; Jennifer Sol ogub> if I ve pronounced -- S-O-L-O-G-U-B; John Parziale; Steve Bandy; Bob S ovin; Jim Slaughter; and Charles Steinmetz, who was the medical director 9 at the time; A I' m not aware that all of those people were involved in developing this guideline. In fact, John Parziale had essentially left his function id 1975 , so he would not have been one of a rou n c the authors. Q Okay. A I' m not sure Jennifer Sologub was either. Q Okay. A But the others may very well have been involved. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 66 Q All right. Can you explain the difference between this '84 plan and the 1977 guidelines? A The 1977 guidelines were essentially a condensation of the OSHA requirements. It was a first attempt by Marathon to put together a corporate guideline that facilities could use for -- for developing their own standard operating procedures. The 1984 document reflects more than just a restatement of the OSHA regulations, but essentially it's broken into three provisions, three sections. One is provisions and interpretations, which is essentially a - largely a statement of what the policy will be; a second section which deals with administrative procedures, which is just an indication of who does what and when; and then a third section called special interpretations, which provides two facilities an example plan that they could use as a template for their own -- for their own workplace. Q Okay. And Mr. Gi es, I'll admit that I have not reviewed that in any detail. I ve just scanned it today at today's deposition, but my reading 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 of it is that that is a plan that applies to employees and does not reference outside contractors, is that correct? AWithout looking at it more closely, I probably couldn t respond one way or the other to that. Q ^Vhy don t we -- why don t we do this. Whydon t we take a short break right now to allow you to review that to be able to answer that question as to whether or not this 1984 plan applies to outside contractors or not. A Okay. MR. FRENCH: We ' ll go off the record. (A recess was taken.) Q Back on the record, and when we took this short break for you to review this 1984 plan, my question was whether or not by the terms of this plan outside contractors were included. A Outside contractors by name are not identified in this asbestos exposure program, although there are statements in the program which certainly would have implications for contractors at least insofar as the training that is being provided and consistent with this program is one that Mar athon employees would be Page 68 expected to ensure that safe procedures were being followed. Q Okay. A Ev en if the work were being done by contractors. Q Do you know whether or not that this written policy was provided to outside contractors? Or 9 written plan; AI am not aware of that. Q Do you believe that they were or weren't; it was or wasn 't.? AI don't think I could speculate on that. Q Okay. There s nothing in the document itself, correct, that indicates that such written plan was disseminated to outside contractors; 9 correct. A That's correct. Q If I could ask you -- I know we have had the interrogatories open for a while, to turn to page 74. All right, and 74 is at the -- at the top of that page is Marathon's interrogatory response to No. 75. The first paragraph are objections that Marathon has. The second paragraph is an answer. If you could read that paragraph, please. 17 (Pages 65 to 68; PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 73 I mean Marathon and Marathon generally, not just related to Robinson. A There probably is a document that supports that state ment. Q Do you remember reviewing any such document at o any ti me: A I have a vague recollection of reviewing a document in connection with the Industrial Hygiene Foundation, but I don't remember the specific year. Q Okay. I'm going to add to my request for information any documents that is in Marathon's possession relative to the IHF I'd also like to see. Could you read the next paragraph about the National Safety Council. A "The Ohio Oil Company became a member sometime around 1932. Marathon has not found any evidence of its corporate membership, although individual employees may have been members." Q In reference to that section, do you -- have you seen any documents about the National Safety Council, or the NSC, as it's sometimes called, at any point? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 75 I would basically like to turn to some current discovery issues we are having with Marathon, and one issue in particular, through counsel, I have been trying to get some information about asbestos-containing products at the Robinson refinery, including crocidolite gaskets. I'm sure you've been apprised of this; is that right?9 A Yes. And have you been one of the folks trying to Q retrieve the information necessary to see if there were asbestos-containing gaskets and specifically crocidolite asbestos-containing asbestos gaskets at the Robinson refinery? A I have not been actively trying to do that myself, but I have provided comments to counsel as to, you know, maybe some additional place to look. Q Okay. ^Why don t -- why don t -- and I appreciate that, and I think without describing the actual -- anything confidential, can you describe the process by which you would suggest retrieving those documents?9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 74 Page 76 A Not that I recall. Q From that answer, I suppose there s some information that led Marathon to be able to answer that, and I would ask, and again, this is probably for counsel, not for you, that any information that Marathon has related to the NSC also be turned over. And then I won't bore you with this whole one, but just the next one, if you could read that. A American Petroleum Institute. The Ohio Oil Company was a member of API from 1919 to 1961, and Marathon has been a member of API since 1963." Q Mr. Gies, have you seen any documents related to the showing -- Marathon and its predecessor name, Ohio Oil Company, as a member of the API? A I have not. Q Again, I would ask that that information be turned over. And I think it was part of the request that was to be turned over today. All right, I don't think I have any more questions to bore you with Marathon's answers to interrogatories. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A ^Well, first of all, I have absolutely no knowledge of what s -- what s at the Robinson refinery. Q Okay. A My-Q Let me ask a better question, I think a simpler question. Where should Marathon go to look for these documents showing crocidolite-containing gaskets at Marathon? Well, one place to look would be the archived A material safety data sheets. At this point in time, that would be my only suggestion, because typically those data sheets have been saved for some length of time. Were -- where are these sheets kept? Q The sheets would be kept in Findlay, and there A is a computer database that stores that information. I think the original documents probably are retained in some offsite storage. Q Where would that offsite storage be? Should be there in the Findlay area. A You yourself, do you have access today to this Q computer database that I've seen you reference 19 (Pages 73 to 76) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 77 before in previous depositions, is that ? something that you know how to access yourself? A Asa retired employee, I would not have acce to that. Q Okay. I' m not going to go ad nauseam about this, but -- because I think you have done this, about Marathon s document preservation policy and how -- how to retrieve documents. I m going to give you my understanding of it, and if I'm wrong, please correct me. If there's this computer database that I've seen, and you ve just -- and this is the database, for example, that would have these -- what's the initial, the MS- - A MSDS. Q -- MSDS sheets that we're talking about, would be -- and that computer database is physically in Findlay, Ohio? A That's correct. Q Are there -- would there be hard copies of such MSDS sheets that would date back to the early 1970s e? A Th ere may not have been since there was no formal government requirement for manufacturers 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 79 let me rephrase that. It wouldn t be the hazard communication standard, it would be the employee access -- or access to employee and exposure records, employee access to exposure and medical records. Q And for Rob inson, how far do those records go back? A Th at standard was promulgated in the mid 1980s, so only relevant records probably after that date would have been retained. Q Okay. Let me ask you this. I d like to go over some individual categories of documents, and to the best of your knowledge, where would such documents be kept for Marathon Robinson. Sales or invoices of asbestos-containing products, including insulation and gaskets. A I do not know. Q Marathon's -- the second category, Marathon's attendance at outside organizational meetings, such as the , or the A Wh at were the organizations again? Q The A merican Petroleum Institute, the National Safety Council, and the Industrial Hygiene Foundation. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 78 to provide ^MSDSs to customers at that time. Q True. Let me ask about a category of documents more generally. In the early 1970s, would hard copies of documents showing the asbestos content of gaskets or other asbestos-containing materials o still be kept at some location? A Pr obably not. Q I understand that there are some documents kept at the individual facilities such as Robinson, 9 correct. A That's correct, and consistent with records retention policy. Q Okay. ^What records would be kept at the Robinson facility, or let's make it a little broader to include any storage facility near Robinson? A I assume we're talking about safety and health 9 records; Q Sure, we can limit it to that. A The only record that -- the only records that would require long-term retention would be those that meet the requirements of the hazard communications standard. Excuse me, let me -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 80 A Th ere are some records associated with attendance at American Petroleum Institute meetings, and those records would have been archived and retained in the Findlay records storage area. Q I understand you re not sure about records for the NSC or Nati onal Safety Council, but where do you think such records would be kept, if they are -- if they exist? A My impression is that probably those records don't exist any longer. Q Okay. Do you know why they don't exist? A I think they just -- they met the records retention policy requirements for disposal, whereas the ones having to do with API were considered exposure or potentially medical records. And even though they weren't medical records, per se, they may have fit that description, which would have fallen under the OSHA access to records standard. Q Would that -- would your answer about such documents also be true of the IHF, or would there be something different? A The IHF was -- was an organization that M aratho PohlmanUSA Court Reporting 20 (Pages 77 to 80; (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 81 may have belonged to before __ before my before I started work. Q Ail right. How about asbestos abatement documents, where would such documents be kep.tt?? And please mention if its more than one l ocation. A I' m not aware of asbestos abatement documents being retained. Q Okay. That confuses me a little bit, because I thought earlier in the deposition you had talked about like the abatement documents -- maybe we were -- were we just talking about bulk sample 9 documents are kept? A Correct. The fact that the bulk samples may 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 have included a location where that sample is taken and possibly the type of work that was being done in conjunction of that, with that. Q Okay. A That would be why the -- those would be retained. Otherwise, if there s major renovation being done on a facility, let's just say if there's no bulk samples being taken, 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 those records would have fallen under the __ excuse me, under the records retention policy. 23 24 Page 82 Page 83 any additions also, any revisions be provided with that, starting with whatever the first policy was and any revisions. The air monitoring for individual personal monitoring done at Robinson, where would those records be kept? I understand that those records -- you mentioned earlier would be kept from the first time, which would have been the late 1970s , until the present. Where would those records be kept?9 A Those would be kept in the industrial hygiene database, which is in Findlay. Q Okay. Is that the same database we've been referring to before?9 A It's a different database. Th e previous one we were talking about was the material safety data sheet database. Th is one is the industrial hygiene database. Q Is this the one you called Inhale? A Correct. Q Okay. In what form are these documents for air monitoring, for personal monitoring done, kept, what type of format?9 A Are you asking about the computer database or Page 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 So they would have been disposed of after a certain period of time. Q Under -- you ve mentioned this, the records retention policy several times. That is -- you re talking about Marathons policy for such documents?9 A Th at's correct. Q Okay. You don't have a copy of that policy with you today, do you?9 A I do not. Q Okay. That would be another request that I would have, for the records retention policy. Is that a -- do you know when the last -- has there been more than one edition of that, or has that record retention policy stayed consistent from your tenure at Marathon? A Th ere were revisions to it over time. Q Do you know when the -- do you know the date of the first records retention policy that you've seen?: A I don't remember the specific date when that policy was enacted. N^y guess would have been probably in the late 1980s. Q Late 1980s, okay. All right. I would ask that 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the hard copy data that was used? Q The hard copy data that was used. A They would have been kept in __ now, let me back up. They would have been put in records storage as well, and the information typically is on - in standard format, that we may have developed a form that was used for the air monitoring -- in fact, we did develop a form, it was an industrial hygiene sampling form. And that form over the years has also undergone some revision. Q ^Vould it be correct that it s probably that form that s more readable to like a layperson or an outside person rather than the database sheet that you could produce for the air monitoring results? Does my question make sense? A Yes, I think you could probably argue both ways. S ometimes the computer information is a lot more concise and to the point, whereas if you're looking at the original sample form, it contains more technical information that may not make its way into the computer database because it was just sort of background information for what was put into the computer. Q Okay. And if I did n t make this request, again, PohlmanUSA Court Reporting 21 (Pages 81 to 84) (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 85 that would be on my list too, whatever format is easier to see, that the air monitoring for Robinson for individuals. And there was some monitoring done also for particular areas -- air monitoring for a particular area of the refinery?o A Yes, there was area monitoring done as distinguished from personal monitoring. Q Okay. A The approach was very similar, using the same type of monitoring equipment, but instead of it being located on a person, it may have been located at an area that was barricaded off because there was asbestos work being done in the area. Q Okay. And do those records date back to approximately the same time as the personal monitoring, that being the late 1970s? There may be some area monitoring in there in A conjunction with -- with the personal monitoring. I don't think it goes back quite as far back as the personal monitoring. So in other words, it would be more recent -- it Q would be later dates than like -- like after the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 86 1970s probably for the area monitoring? A Yeah. ^Ve would have to look at the data, and there is a way to distinguish between the area monitoring results and the personal monitoring results that -- but there s far less area monitoring than what there is personal monitoring. Q And forgive me if I asked this earlier, but I think you said this, that there was some area monitoring done for Robinson? A I believe there was some area monitoring done for Robinson, yes. Q Okay. That would also obviously be included in my request, that such records be produced. Okay, I think that's all I need to ask you about document policy. You obviously started in 1977 with the company, and I understand that you were employed as the first industrial hygienist; is that 9 correct: A That s correct. Q I m -- I m curious about this. How -- and I don't see that I've read this in previous depositions. How did it -- how did your 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 87 position come about? How did the need for your 9 position come about? A ^Vell, I think that there was a recognition that there was a considerable amount of work that -- that could no longer be handled by safety people at our facilities, and that the nature of the work was more technical than what our safety people would normally be involved in. And I think that there was also a connection between our attendance at the American Petroleum Institute meeting, where other similar oil companies had industrial hygienists for their operations. And so I think that there was a general impetus, not to mention the least of which being OSHA, becoming a very prominent force, that essentially led the company to believe that, okay, we need to add this kind of technical expertise. How did the contact initially get made? Did you Q contact Marathon for a job, or did they contact you because they knew something about you and your education and experience?9 A I think I had seen a posting at one of our national conferences, and I responded to the Page posting and essentially met the Marathon people there at the conference. Q And when you say like a posting at a conference, you re talking about for the industrial 9 hygienists: A Co rrect. Q When you came on board, who were the people responsible for the -- for the functions that you had as an industrial hygienist? And let's start with who were those people just at Marathon generally, like at Findlay, corporate. A At Findlay corporate, probably Jim Slaughter was the key person that actually interviewed me as well as was providing whatever technical support was available. Q Okay. A There were also some people in our __ what s called __ what was called our loss prevention department that were safety engineers that may have been involved in doing some industrial hygiene monitoring or providing some expertise like that that also, you know, would have been involved in obviously the decision process. Q How about at Robinson itself? Obviously you CO CO 22 (Pages 85 to 88) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O' Page 89 Page 91 being the first industrial hygienist and working out of Findlay, they did not have an industrial o hygienist when you came on board, correct; A Cor rect. What person or persons were handling what you Q would consider industrial hygienist functions at Robinson when you came on board in 1977? A The safety supervisor at the Robinson refinery in 1977 was Red Stewart, and he had one or two people that reported to him that presumably were involved in doing some industrial hygiene monitoring. I don t recall the name of the -of those people that were there in 1977 aside from Red Stewart. Q What's your understanding of Red Stewart's -did he have education in safety and/or industrial hygiene? A I don't know what education Red had in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 industrial hygiene aside from what he had learned on the job. I think he -- he had worked 19 20 his way from operations into the safety supervisor's job, so I think he had firsthand knowledge of at least what potential exposures 21 22 23 could be there and obviously what safety 24 Page 90 the air sampling process that was done at Robinson from the late 1970s. And I guess we ought to break this down. We'll just start when you first -- when you're aware when it first started in the late 1970s. My understanding from reading the -- your deposition in the Shaw deposition is that Steve Bandy at Robinson would collect the personal monitoring samples, would send those to you at Findlay, and then you, in turn, would forward them to an outside lab for testing. And then finally, when the results came back, you would write a report and then disseminate it within Marathon, however it had to be distributed. Is that correct? A That s correct. How long was this process in place? Q A That process was probably in place for seven or eight years. Can you give an estimate during that time frame, Q however it's easier for you to do, whether it be a total or a monthly calculation, of how often that happened, where Steve Bandy would be collecting these personal monitoring results, Page 92 procedures were important. So he had -- he definitely had some experience but did -probably was not in industrial hygiene. Did Robinson ever hire its own -- and when I say Robinson hire, I don t know how the hiring works, and I don t care, but, I mean, did Robinson ever have its own industrial hygienist on site; and if so, when did that start?9 A Probably the first person that they employed as an industrial hygienist came on board around maybe the late 1980s. Q Okay. And who was that person? That would have been Jim Marietta. Do you need A for me to spell that? Q Sure. A M-A-R-I-E-T-T-A. Q Okay. And his responsibility was to be the industrial hygienist for the Robinson refinery? That's correct. A Q Have they had somebody constantly employed in that position or a similar position since that time? That's correct. A Q All right. I want to talk a little bit about 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 send them to you, and the whole process went 9 through; A That would be hard to estimate. If I were to guess, I would say that that process occurred perhaps every -- every week or two. Q And in each week or two, how many samples as an average would Mr. Bandy be sending to you? Well, that, again, is a very rough estimate, but A probably anywhere from -- anywhere from one to perhaps a dozen. Q Okay. And those -- and I guess to be clear, we're talking about area monitoring results that -- as opposed to area-wide results? I mean, it was being done much more frequently with the personal monitoring;? A That may have included some area monitoring results in there as well. Q Okay. And this was in -- this was monitoring Marathon employees; correct? To the best of my knowledge, it probably was A Marathon employees. Do you know whether it included any monitoring Q 9 of outside contractors; Not that I recall. A 23 (Pages 89 to 92) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 93 Page 95 Q If there was a result that showed an exceedance of the exposure limit, what was the procedure?9 ^Vhat happened to remedy that -- or no, just what was the procedure that happened when you saw a result that exceeded the exposure limit?9 A Typically what we would do is we would call the facility and let them know that we had a result that exceeded the exposure limit, and that we would ask them perhaps some additional details about what had occurred, whether there was anything that wasn't documented on the sample data form to indicate why the exceedance might have occurred. We would then follow that up with a formal report that essentially documented those results. And then in addition to that, we would also provide a separate notification that could be transmitted to the employee about what his monitoring result was. Q Okay. And again, this is going to be in my compilation of things. I would -- well, let me ask, before I ask for this. The formal reports that were done to document this issue, are those still in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 94 o existence! A Yes, they should be. Q Okay. The separate reports to the employees talk -- discussing the issues, have those also 9 been kept? A Yes, they should be. Q All right. Id request both categories of documents be sent to us. A Excuse me. ^Were you looking for examples of that type of situation, or are you looking at the universe of monitoring that was done, you know, on employees and the exposure notification? Q Well, my questions were in -- and just so we're clear and make sure it's your understanding, my question was what was -- you know, what was the procedure, and I think you've given the procedure after there was an exceedance of the exposure limit; correct? A Correct. Q And that was your understanding of my line of questions too, just so -- A Yes. Q And I am requesting the documents that show 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that, the formal report that was done, which I understand is one document; and the second document, which I understand is the communication of that exceedance to the employees?9 A Correct. Q Correct. A So we are really looking maybe at something to 9 give you an example of what the process was? Q Yes. And Ill make this clear in my request -- and this is more directed to counsel than to you. I mean, I would be looking not for just a representative example but all such reports that show the -- show exceedance at Robinson. I know that you've talked about -- in the Shaw deposition again, in 1977 -- excuse me, 1978, there was a comprehensive survey done at Robinson where you were onsite for approximately a week which is -- first of all, is that correct, is that your recollection?9 What was the time frame? A Q 1978. Okay. I vaguely recall a report to Robinson in A 1978. Page 96 Q And its my understanding that you -- I think it was your words describing this as a comprehensive survey that was done at Robinson which included not just asbestos monitoring, but it did include some asbestos air monitoring. Do you recall that testimony? And if not, I can show the deposition testimony if that refreshes your memory. A Yes, if you can show me that deposition testimony. In fact, do we have the document? Just one second. Q MR. FRENCH: If you have the Shaw deposition, I think its at around page 44. Q Oh, it starts around page I think 42, actually. A Okay, I m with you. Does that refresh your memory a little bit about Q something that was done at Robinson in 1978? I guess it refreshes my memory to the extent A that something was done in 1978. Q Okay. Without knowing the specifics of what we had A done. Q Okay. I'll ask you a few specifics, and if you can answer. 24 (Pages 93 to 96) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 97 Do you recall any of the results from that time in 1978 in regard to the asbestos monitoring?. A No, I do not. Q Do you recall which tradesmen or trades were wearing the personal air monitors for asbestos sampling then?O A I do not. Q Okay. Do you -- now, I m using this term comprehensive survey, because I read it in the deposition transcript. Does that -- does a comprehensive survey of a refinery such as Robinson mean anything to you? And I guess my question is: When I use that term, what do you understand that to be? A ^Vell, comprehensive as opposed to limited. I would say that the comprehensive survey is one where you would go into a facility and you would try to monitor all of the employees at the facility for whatever the relevant exposure might be. Q Okay. A As opposed to a limited survey which maybe you're going in and focusing just on a 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 99 asbestos. Can you identify years or approximate part of Q the decade that these two or three -- is that in addition to 1978, or does that two or three include the 1978? A That may be including 1978. Okay. Do you know when the next comprehensive Q survey was done, approximately?9 A I think it was probably done perhaps three or four -- maybe three years later. Q Okay. A ^Ve were doing them at approximately three- to four-year intervals up until 1990. All right. Do you know when the last one that Q you can recollect being done at Robinson? A I think it was 1987. All right. I'd ask that those records be Q produced too, of the comprehensive surveys that included asbestos monitoring. Is there a reason why the kind of comprehensive surveys stopped at Robinson in 1987? Because we started placing industrial hygienists A at field locations about that time. Page 98 Page 100 substance. The comprehensive survey essentially says, well, what s going on during this week that's happening, we need to monitor and assess what the exposure is to whatever that substance is. Q So comprehensive would include every hazardous material there at a refinery that you can think o of, essentially: A It would include every hazardous substance where you would anticipate that there could be a problem exposure. Q And from 1978 forward, would a comprehensive survey always include asbestos monitoring? A It would not necessarily include asbestos monitoring, because it may well be that people are doing little or no work with asbestos at the time that we were there. Q Do you know how many comprehensive surveys that 1978were done at Marathon from forward that would include asbestos monitoring? A Are we talking company-wide? Q Just Robinson. A Just Robinson. There may have been two or three comprehensive surveys that might have included 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Okay. I think you testified in a previous deposition, and I apologize, I don t remember which one, but you've been there -- you've seen the removal of the thermal insulation, whether it be pipe insulation or vessel insulation, at Robinson with your own eyes; correct? A Cor rect. 1977Q Was the first time or approximately then? A I don t recall when I first saw that at Robinson. Q Do you know what part of a decade you would have been when you first saw it at Robinson? A ^Vell, if it -- if I did not see it in 1978, it certainly would have been the early part of 1980. Okay. Can you estimate how many times you've Q seen thermal insulation being removed at Robinson? That would be very difficult to do. A Q How about -- let me -- would it help if I limited it to a time period from whenever your first time was to 1985, just that time period? A If we re just talking about maybe observing what 9 was -- what was happening; 25 (Pages 97 to 100) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 101 Q Yes. A Oh, probably two or three times in that time period. Q Can you describe what process you saw? And if you can go back to the first time, that would be the most helpful, the first time that you saw the removal of thermal insulation, what was going on ?: A The years start running together. Q Okay. A In terms of what I have -- what I have seen. I can tell you my recollection of removal has been one where any insulation that was removed was very carefully removed and removed in sections. Wetting of asbestos was literally occurring from the time that I started working, and the wetting started including things like surfactants so you could try to more thoroughly wet the asbestos. Q Okay. I get to use a favorite defense lawyer word. Is that a specific recollection you're having about Robinson? A I can't tell you the specific year that I saw that happening. Again, it's -- my recollection 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 102 O' Page 103 MS. SCHMIDT: Well, and I'll object to that question just based on relevance as to what was happening all over Marathon facilities. But subject to the objection, if you can answer that, go ahead. A ^Well, and I think I can even address it specifically at Robinson, how the technology has changed, that there s no question that technology has improved. And, in fact, there's been subsequent OSHA regulations that have been issued in 1987, 1994, that essentially said that, okay, these are new procedures that you need to follow. And, of course, the most obvious one is local exhaust ventilation for -to help minimize generation of dust. And so the local exhaust ventilation, you saw that in later years but not in your first years observing the process; is that correct?o A That's correct. Q In a deposition, I think this was the Satterfield deposition, you -- you mentioned that you could identify asbestos-containing insulation at Robinson by a white label. Do you remember that -- giving that Page 104 is one of where these images are all coming together. I can tell you that in that 1977 health and safety guide, wetting was one of the procedures that was indicated, and I guess all I can do is sort of put two and two together and say that we know they were following these guidelines. That was our expectation. If they weren't following the guidelines, then they were taken to task for that. So that being the case, I'm going to assume that wetting was a regular practice to avoid generating dust. Q Do you know, can you describe any differences from the process that you first saw in removing thermal insulation versus the -- what you ve seen at the last time in the removal of thermal insulation, the differences that occurred in the interim? And let me -- and let me say this. This I would include -- be -- since you've only seen it two, three times at Robinson, I would include this for all Marathon facilities. How did it change over time of how insulation was removed that was suspected to be asbestos containing?o 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 7 testi mony ; A I do remember reviewing the deposition and essentially that being what -- how I responded. Q ^Vell, do you have an independent memory of that, of seeing white labels at Robinson? A Yes, I do. Q And besides -- did the white label -- and this is what I was unclear of. What was on the white label that indicated to a person that this was 9 asbestos_containing insulation? Our refineries have taken different approaches A to the labeling of asbestos. Some of them have taken the approach that asbestos-containing insulation would be labeled as such: Warning, contains asbestos. In other cases, other facilities may have taken the case of putting the label on the nonasbestos material and assuming that the rest of it still contains asbestos. Q Okay. A So I guess I don t recall the specifics of Robinson aside from I think another comment in that same deposition about them going to the use of Thermo-12, which was a pipe lagging that 26 (Pages 101 to 104) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 105 Page 107 contained speckles, and that was an indication that the material did not contain asbestos. Q ^Vhen you first went to Robinson, your first time going to Robinson, do you have a recollection of how much pipe insulation you saw with speckles versus pipe insulation that did not contain speckles and, therefore, we can assume would be asbestos containing?o A No, we can t. I think that about the time that I mentioned that -- made that reference to Thermo-12, it was one where they were -- they were just starting to incorporate that approach. Q Okay. Do you agree that boilermakers hired in the 1970s to work on equipment at the refinery would have more opportunity for exposure than Marathon employees for exposure to asbestos? A I think it would depend on what they did. Q Okay. A Frequently we find that boilermakers don't do just boilermaker work. Q Could I ask you and your counsel to look at the Satterfield deposition if you have a copy of that, and turn to page 74, I believe. Let me make sure. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 1 3 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 3 4 Page 106 as it was called, issued in 1977. Q Sorry. I m sorry, you don t need to read further. I just -- do you recall giving that 9 type of deposition testimony; A Yes. Q And you understood at that time that you were .9 under oath, correct; A Yes. And do you find anything incorrect with that Q 9 statement; A I stand by the statement. Q Okay. N4r. Gies, are -- do you -- are you aware of any internal memos between people at Marathon, whether you're included or not, where the cost of compliance -- of complying with the OSHA standards for asbestos has been discussed? A Not that I recall. Do you recall ever yourself authoring any memo, Q notes talking about any costs of complying with 1972the asbestos standards that started in with OSHA? A Not that I recall. I'd like to ask you a little bit about some of Q the medical records I understand Marathon keeps. Page 108 Okay, if I could ask you -- starting on page 74, there was a question and then your answer. Could you read the question and the 9first paragraph of your answer? A I m sorry, where are we at? Q Oh, I m sorry, 74, line 20. Question: So -- it starts with, So wouldn't it be a good idea." A Okay. So wouldn t it be a good idea to __ for the plant to have given the contractor the same reinforcement and guideline for the asbestos standard?" Do you want the answer as well? Q Please. A "There was a difference in the -- probably the amount of work that contractors would do versus what Marathon employees would do. The contractors were being hired for their skills at doing the asbestos work. Essentially Marathon employees' opportunity for exposure was probably minimal compared to, you know, the contractors were coming in and doing any kind of major work. This asbestos procedure, that asbestos program, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O' o Marathon does keep medical records for employees through their health monitoring plan; 9 correct; A Correct. Q In 2000 -- and my understanding, at least from previous depositions, is that there's no record kept of -- medical records of any sort for 9outside contractors; correct? A That s correct. Q In 2001, you were not aware of any employees or former employees that were suffering from 9mesothelioma? That's correct. A Q Has anything changed since then, since 2001, where you understand that there was a former Marathon employee who is suffering from 9mesothelioma? A Only hearsay. Only from what __ scuttlebutt. I have no firsthand knowledge. Okay. Vhat did you hear about a Marathon 9employee? Well, I had heard that some Marathon employees A had contracted some mesothelioma. Do you know any more details than that? 27 (Pages 105 to 108) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 109 A No, I don t. Q Such as name of the employees? A One of the individuals that I had heard was a former safety supervisor, was the individual that -- when I first came to the refinery in 1977. That would have been Red Stewart. Q Red Stewart. Do you know if ]Mr. Stewart is o currently alive? A I do not know. Q Do you know when you had heard -- and I understand heard, that Mr. Stewart had mesothelioma? A When did I hear? Q Yes. A Just recently. Q In 2009? A Yes. Q Have you done any checking to confirm or not the report that Mr. Stewart was suffering from mesothelioma? A I have not. Q So is it accurate to say you don't know the truth one way or the other whether he, in fact, has the disease? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 111 now that s changed since 2002 where Marathon could see whether former employees have developed an asbestos disease?9 A The practice has been to provide a final examination for asbestos for employees that were leaving the company, and that was consistent with what OSHA required. So the policy has not changed since 2001, to Q your knowledge?9 A Let me qualify that it really -- we really can't even call it a policy. I guess let's just call it a practice. Q Okay. Essentially, no, it has not changed, as far as A I m aware, since that time. Q Obviously since I'm here today, you're aware that some outside contractors who previously worked at Marathon have been diagnosed with mesothelioma; correct?9 A I am aware that the purpose for this deposition is because of a contractor who had contracted mesothelioma, Mr. Bick. Okay. And obviously I understand you're not a Q medical causation expert of any sort, but in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 110 Page 112 A That s correct. Q I dont know if you were asked before, do you have -- are you aware of former ^Marathon employees or current employees who -- of Marathon suffering -- and this would include beyond Robinson, but who are suffering from 9 asbestosis l MS. SCHMIDT: I'll object to the relevance of employees beyond Robinson. But subject to the objection, you can answer if you know the answer. A I don t know the answer to that. If I limit it just to Robinson, does your answer Q change, do you have any awareness of employees, former or current, suffering from asbestosis? A Aside from what we ve talked about, no. Q I understand from that first deposition, the Satterfield deposition, that Marathon was not tracking records of employees, in other words, there was no medical monitoring done of them once they leave ^Marathon. And that was in 2001; correct? That's correct. A Q Is that still true, is there any system in place 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 addition to M4r. Bick, you have done depositions in connection with Stanley Satterfield; correct? A Cor rect. William Shaw? Q MS. SCHMIDT: Kadivnik. THE WITNESS: Thank you. Q Oh, okay. There s two -- there were two in the same case, William Shaw and Joseph Kadivnik. A Okay. Do you know whether Mr. Shaw had mesothelioma, Q from your -- A I do not, no. MS. SCHMIDT: From your what? Well, from your association with that particular Q case and doing a deposition in that case. A I do not. How about for Mr. Kadivnik? Q A I don t recall the diagnosis. Okay. What was your -- what was your best Q understanding of what the diagnosis was for either Mr. Shaw or Mr. Kadivnik? MS. SCHMIDT: If you recall. A I don t recall. Q Do you understand that it was some 28 (Pages 109 to 112) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 113 Page 115 asbestosTelated disease and that s why you were called to testify in that case?9 A I would have assumed that to be the case. Q In addition to these four individuals, K4r. Satterfield, K4r. Shaw, K4r. Kadivnik, and K4r. Bick, are you aware of any other individuals, essentially outside contractors, who previously worked at Marathon and have been diagnosed with an asbestos_related disease?9 A I have not. Q I know we've been going for a while, and I haven t been tracking time. A And I need to take a break. (A recess was taken.) Q Mr. Gies, I wanted to ask you about API, American Petroleum Institute, and whether or not on behalf of Marathon you ever attended any meetings. A The American Petroleum Institute is obviously a large organization, so if you re asking whether I attended meetings associated with committees of the API, yes. Q Okay. When was that? A There would have been a fairly lengthy period 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 114 A Cor rect. Q Other than a name change, was there anything 7 that changed the organization? MS. SCHMIDT: If you know. A I m not sure I understand your question. Q Okay. The name -- there was a name change that 1962occurred in , changing the name of the company that was previously known as the Ohio Oil Company to Marathon, and if I've forgotten some words off the end of Marathon, I'm not 1962exactly sure when it was in , but that's 7 correct ? A That's correct. Q Okay. Do you -- are you aware of any changes 1962other than a name change that occurred in that somehow was -- Marathon was a different company than the Ohio Oil Company? A I am not. Q Okay. Are you aware that Ohio Oil Company, the predecessor name, was a member of the Medical Advisory Committee in 1959? A I was not. Q Do you have any information about the length of time that the Ohio Oil Company was a member of Page 116 from probably when I first hired in 1977 through the late 1980s. Q Okay. And what committee meetings -- or was it more than one committee that you went to certain 7 meetings on; A It was for the most part a committee called the Medicine and Biological Sciences Department. Q Okay. ^Was that -- is that a successor to what used to be called the Medical Advisory Committee of the API? A It may have been. I don't know for sure. Q Okay. Did you hold any positions within the API or within this committee of the API? A Just as sub task force chair for -- for a few projects. Q Okay. Did any of those projects involve asbestos in any way? A They did not. Q Are you aware that Ohio Oil Company, the previous name for Marathon Oil -- first of all, let me ask that, to establish that. Is the Ohio Oil Company the previous name of Marathon Oil Company which has had that name since, I believe, 1962? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the API's Medical Advisory Committee? No, I don't. A Q Is that news to you today? A Yes. Q All right. Do you have any -- I take it you did not go to meetings of the National Safety Council; is that correct? A I may have went to one or two meetings over my 30-year career with Marathon. Q Do you know when those one or two meetings 7 occurred? A I do not. Q Do you have any recollection of what the meetings were about for the NSC? A No, I don't. Q Do you believe those meetings happened early in 7 your tenure or middle or late? A I would say probably later in my tenure and perhaps maybe in the early 1990s. Q How about, let's see, the Industrial Hygiene Foundation, was that -- was Marathon participating with the IHF when you started in 1977? A As far as I know, it was not. 29 (Pages 113 to 116) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 117 Page 119 Q Okay. I d like to ask you, do you have any experience doing dose reconstruction? And I should say, specifically asbestos dose reconstruction. A No formal training, that s correct. Q Okay. Have you ever attempted to do it, whether o you were trained or not for it; A Certainly in no formal way or for any particular project, that s correct. I m aware that it can be done and that there are procedures to do that, but I have not personally done any. Q And it wasn't part of your education to do dose reconstruction as an industrial hygienist? A Not that I recall. Q And it hasn't been some on-the-job training that you've had as an industrial hygienist where you were able to do a dose reconstruction? A That's correct. Q Do you plan on doing any dose reconstruction if asked to do one for Marathon in this particular case of Joseph Bick? A Well, first of all, I haven't been asked to do it. Q Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 10 1 1 1 12 3 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 1 2 2 3 2 4 Page 118 to the speaking objection. And since it was a long objection, and the question was a while ago, if the court reporter could read my original question. (Record read.) A I think I can respond from a personal opinion standpoint that I think it would be difficult to do something like that. Have you seen a report by Dr. Rock in this case Q who has been hired as an industrial hygienist by Marathon? A I have not. Have you spoken with Dr. Rock? Q I have not. A Q Do you know Dr. Rock? I am familiar with him by way of his A publications. Did -- have you made a suggestion in this case Q that Marathon should hire Dr. Rock? I have not. A Q All right. There has been testimony in this case by Mr. Bick and another coworker that at the time that Mr. Bick worked at Marathon he worked on a composite crew. Page 120 A And if I were asked to do it, I m not sure what my response would be. Q Okay. Do you have a response that comes to mind 9 as we sit here today? MS. SCHMIDT: Other than are you crazy. A I would be very hesitant to do it without some additional formal training. Q ^Would you agree that it would be difficult for anybody to do a dose reconstruction for Marathon in the -- for a Marathon exposure that occurred in the mid 1970s given that there are no existing monitoring records? MS. SCHMIDT: I'm going to object to the question. He has said he's aware of the procedures. He doesn't have any expertise in doing dose reconstruction. I think any answer he would give would be beyond the scope of any experience or training that he's had and would be a speculative response. Subject to my objection, I guess, if you feel that you can answer the question, go ahead, but I don't know how you could answer the question. MR. FRENCH: Okay. I will -- I'll object 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Are you aware of that? A I became aware of that. Q Okay. And this composite crew consisted of one member of a few different trades, and its my understanding that it was a boilermaker, an insulator, an ironworker, and possibly a laborer. And I may have the last one wrong, but in any event, it was -- and it might have been a pipefitter as well, that being a composite crew. Were you aware of -- of this practice at Marathon in the mid 1970s? A I m certainly aware of that practice as a -- from a general standpoint. As to whether it was going on in the 1970s, I can only assume that to be the case. Do you remember seeing that at your visits to Q Marathon, where you saw such a composite crew doing work at the Robinson refinery? Not that I specifically recall at the Robinson A refinery, but I -- again, I -- I don t think that s an uncommon practice. Q All right. Did Marathon employees ever join composite crews of outside contractors that you re aware of; 30 (Pages 117 to 120) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 121 A I don t know that. Q N^r. Bick has also discussed working in an acid plant at the Robinson refinery, I think its sometimes called an alky plant, like A-L-K-I or A-L-K-Y as an abbreviation. ^Whats your understanding of that that abbreviation stands for?o A It stands for hydrofluoric acid alkylation unit. Q Could you repeat that one more time? A Hydrofluoric. Q Hydrofluoric, okay. A Acid alkylation unit. Q And are you aware that there was such a unit at Robinson? A Yes. Q Do you know where that was located within the Marathon refinery? A I know approximately where it's located, yes. Q You did not, I believe, bring any documents with you like -- that would show a map or blueprint or similar document showing a layout of the Marathon refinery, have you? A I did not. Q Okay. Can -- then would you describe it, and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 123 refinery as it existed from the mid to late 1970s? A I can t tell you how many acres it was. Q Okay. A But a similar unit, similar in size to the alky unit that may have been -- eight or nine other process units that would have essentially been almost as big as the alky unit. And then there was the tank farms, and the tank farms could be as big as, if not bigger than, the part of the refinery that included the process units. Q Understood. The tank farms, were they on a separate piece of land from the other process 9 units: A That's correct. Okay. Can you describe where they were located Q with respect to the processing units?9 A The tank farms were located on the east side of the refinery property. Q Okay. And was there any land separating the tank farms from the processing units that were on the west side?9 There was -- there was land that physically A 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 122 Page 124 however its best, if its easier for you to put it on a piece of paper and draw it, that s fine too. Do you think it would be easier to describe or easier to draw?o A You mean in terms of what is the process or what 9 does the unit look like? Q No, simply where the location -- where the unit was located within the refinery. A Okay. ^My understanding, and I m -- of where the unit was, and I'm trying to figure out north from west and so forth. MS. SCHMIDT: It would -- and I'm sorry, just to clarify, you mean in the mid 70s? Q Yes, as it existed in the __ and I think we ought to expand it from the mid to late 1970s, as it existed at Robinson at that point. A Okay. The HF alkylation unit would have been located in the -- on the west side of the -- of the plant facility. Q Okay. To get a better picture of that, how big was this unit? A How big was the process unit. It may have been approximately as big as a city block. Q Okay. And how big was the entire Robinson 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 separated the process units from tank farms, and I think that was also an area where they had a railcar siting as well that separated the property. Q Okay. And that property, that land in between the tank farm and the processing units, was that, to your understanding, owned by Marathon? A To my understanding, it was owned by Marathon. Q Was the entire parcel consisting of what you're describing as the west side of the processing units, land in between with a rail station of some sort, and the tank farms, was that one -- was that entire area enclosed by a fence or otherwise separated from -A It was enclosed by a security fence, yes. Q And that would have been as it existed in the mid 1970s? A Yes. Q Is there a -- okay, let me ask this. With respect to this -- what I'm going to call the entire grounds, consisting of everything that was enclosed by the fence, where was that in relation to the town of Robinson? A The town of Robinson would have been further to 31 (Pages 121 to 124) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 125 the west of the alky, and, in fact, would have been across a street, a city street or maybe two city streets from the -- from the fence line of the property. Q And was the hydrofluoric acid alkylation, if I m saying it correctly, unit, was that the unit that was closest to town, as from the other .o units! A I think that there would have been a considerable buffer area between the ^^F alkylation unit and the security fence and then the road and then residents. Q Understanding that, just in terms of relative proximity of that entire fenced-off area, was that unit closer to town -- well, let's start with this, just so I get a clear picture in my mind. That unit, as I understand your description, is closer to town, for example, 9 than the tank farm; A Yes. Q And it's closer to town than the land in between 9 the tank farm and the processing units; A Right. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 126 Page 127 Q Okay. Yes. My reference, I guess, was more towards A modification of the size of the process units within the facility. Is it your understanding that Q asbestos-containing gaskets would have been used at Marathon during the mid to late 1970s? MS. SCHMIDT: At Robinson? MR. FRENCH: At Robinson, yes. A Yes, it's my understanding that they were. Are you familiar with the term crocidolite Q asbestos?9 A I am. What is your understanding? Q A My understanding is that it's a form of asbestos similar to -- well, not similar to, maybe not so much in shape, but certainly it's -- crocidolite is treated the same way as amosite and chrysotile asbestos as far as OSHA is concerned. Q Okay. A So I am aware that it is a type of asbestos that has unique qualities, shape, that some people would suggest lends itself to its toxicity. Q Okay. Do you recall whether or not any Page 128 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Okay. Has anything -- in terms of the outside perimeter of the Marathon grounds containing everything we've discussed, has anything changed in terms of the outside perimeter of that Marathon refinery from the mid to late 1970s until the present day?9 A Yeah, I think that there was some modification on the west side of the property. I can t give you the specifics as to what happened. I think that there used to be a -- what they called a barrel house that would be located on that west side between the fence and maybe the HF alky, essentially that barrel house has been replaced. So there's been some modifications over there on that -- on that west side. Q Is the refinery in whole approximately the same size today as it was in the mid to late 1970s? A It is probably larger. Q Larger today? A Yes. Q Where has it expanded in terms of its outside 9 peri meter; A Oh, in terms of the outside perimeter, it -- that has not changed. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 crocidolite gaskets were being used at the Marathon Robinson refinery in the mid to late 1970s? A I don t recall. You don't know one way or another? Q A Correct. You've mentioned, I think, earlier in this Q deposition that you are -- you are familiar as of the time you retired in 2007 from Marathon that the Robinson refinery still had some thermal insulation in place that was asbestos 9 containing, correct; A I guess at this point in time I m not personally aware of that. I -- Q No, 2007 when you retired, I think that was your previous answer. Yes, they still had some pipe lagging that A contained asbestos. Q And my follow-up question to that is: Do you have an estimate of the percentage of thermal insulation at the Robinson facility that was still asbestos containing in 2007? A I do not. Q From an industrial hygiene perspective, do you 32 (Pages 125 to 128) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 129 believe that it would be a good idea for Marathon to make a comprehensive effort to remove all of the remaining asbestos-containing insulation in place at the Robinson facility? MS. SCHMIDT: I' m going to object to the question. It's an ambiguously worded question. Subject to my objection, if you can answer, go ahead. A I d like you to repeat it, please. Q S ure. Let me just ask the court reporter to repeat it so I can see if I can word it differently. (Record read.) Q Okay, I'll leave it at that. A Okay. Q And let me just change the word a good idea from a good practice. Do you think it would be a good practice to remove the remaining asbestos-containing thermal .o insulation A ^Well, I think it s a judgment call. I guess I can t answer the question, you know, maybe black and white. It's a judgment call as to whether you go through the entire facility, identify 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 131 hygiene, which practice do you believe is better, to continue the policy of doing it on a case-by-case basis or to do a comprehensive effort to eliminate all remaining asbestos-containing insulation? MS. SCHMIDT: I'll make the same objection. I think it's an inappropriate question for this witness. I don't know that -- that he hasn't already answered. I believe he's already answered the question also. You can take another stab at it if you'd like to, but ... A Again, I think it s a judgment call, but I think in the best of all worlds, you would prefer that the asbestos wasn t there to start with. Assuming you still had the thermal retention capabilities, asbestos has served a purpose, continues to serve a purpose. So if you ve got similar materials that provide that thermal retention capability, and you didn t have to deal with the asbestos, that would -- that would be great. That would be just one more potential hazard that you didn t have to deal with. As it is, it s one where, you know, you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 130 Page 132 where it s at, and remove it, or whether you do it on a case-by-case basis, which has been pretty much the practice. Q Understanding that -- that that has been the process, that its been a case"by"case -- let me further ask a question about that. Is the -- when you say case-by-case basis, is it essentially that the removal of existing thermal insulation that contains asbestos is done when there's a problem with that area, for example, a leak in a pipe or something like that, so that it's basically necessary to remove the thermal insulation, and then that is replaced with a nonasbestos insulation?9 A Th at s pretty much the current practice, yes. Or what I remember as a current practice when I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 make your judgment call, is it more of aproblem to go in and do the whole scale removal, or is it, you know __ is it more appropriate to do it in a more strategic fashion and remove what you can. I think the key thing is to keep records of where you have removed it so that in the future you don t have to go back to it and wonder, you know, is it asbestos or is it not asbestos. Q Okay. Understanding that its a judgment call, what factors would you consider to -- in making that judgment call as to whether it's a better industrial hygiene practice to remove it case-by-case or to remove it in its entirety in one fell swoop? AWell, and I know what you re probably getting at left. Q Okay. And now I'm asking for your expertise as an industrial hygienist, not necessarily -- and my question is not suggesting, and it's only from that perspective, not from the perspective of a former Marathon employee and a current consultant to Marathon. My question is just from industrial 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 is, you know, economics, and to a certain extent, the -- there may be some economic advantages, I suppose, to both. On the one hand, there s an economic advantage to, you know, removing it all at today s cost versus removing it all, you know, ten years from now at those costs. On the other hand, there s the strategy of, we ll remove what 33 (Pages 129 to 132) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 133 Page 13 5 we need when we -- when we do it, and then let s just say we ll go in and do an entire process unit but not the entire plant. Therefore, we know that that process unit is clean. Q Is it your understanding that Marathon s primary factor in deciding how to remove insulation between case-by-case versus doing it all at once comprehensively, that its primary factor that it has considered is economics?o A E conomics is one. Management I would say, or feeling, knowing that they can manage the existing asbestos in place is probably another. MR. FRENCH: If we can just take a short break, I want to review my notes, because we've thrown documents all over the place, but I think I may be finished. (A recess was taken.) Q Mr. Gies, this is the -- I'm going to hand you Exhibit 4 that was previously marked, the safety manual. A Yes. Q And I'm not sure that we have -- and this is a copy of the two pamphlets that you brought in today, that's a copy of one of the pamphlets you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 134 brought in, the Safety Manual 1; correct? A Yes. Q Okay. I don t know if I asked you this, and if I did, forgive me, but did you identify a date that this safety manual was drafted? And I think your answer was you don't know the exact .. 9 date, is that correct; A That s correct, but I can tell you that we did -- we did some homework to try to pin it down a little better. Q Okay. A And went back to our graphics services people who originally produced the document. Th ey no longer had the date, but we felt very comfortable that it predated 1975. Q Predated 1975? A Yes. Q Can you specify anything more than it predates 1975? Forex ample, was it 1974 , was it late 1960s o r anything - A Well, we think it was sometime between 1971 and 1975. Q Okay. And if you could also look at the Gies Exhibit 5, which is the Safety Manual 2 that you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 brought in. A Yes. Q Again, the same question, I don t think there are any dates within the document that show when it was produced, but have you been able to do research on this one and identify a little bit better when it was produced? A ^Well, we think that it was produced probably a little bit later than that, and one of the substances, for example, that was mentioned in here is for benzene, where they mention an API Toxicology Review, 1960. Now, it clearly was not done in 1960, and what they're referencing is really a pretty old benzene document, but the -- well, it s not "" excuse me. The exposure limit that they're referring to there for benzene, 25 parts per million, is an exposure limit that would have existed probably, again, around the mid 1970s, and that was the basis for concluding that -- that this document, you know, might have been a little later than that. Okay. So your best estimate is sometime in the Q mid 1970s? Page 13 6 A Probably mid 1970s. And we think that what th ey did was they originally developed this safe rules and practices which is really more safety rules, and then they went back and decided they needed to do something with the chemicals, and that's really the orientation of -- of this particular one is for chemicals. So this one is probably after, considerably after this one here, so maybe even later than 1975, maybe even 1975, 1980-type vintage. Q And admittedly I have not read these comprehensively, but based on the indexes, I don't see references to asbestos specifically in 9 either of them, is that correct; A The only reference you'll see to it is -- well, there is a reference to the personal protective equipment in this one, but there's also a reference under insulation under -- on page -let's see. Q And just to be clear, this is which -- I'm sorry. A This is the safe rules -- MS. SCHMIDT: No. 1. A -- and safe practices, yes. 34 (Pages 133 to 136; PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 L0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 137 Page 139 Q No. 1, okay. To help you, it looks like page 39? A Yes, very good. Yes. Q All right. A So there s a reference there to insulation as well as I think there s some reference to asbestos-containing insulation. Q Okay. A So yeah. Q How about in regard to Safety Manual 2, the hazardous materials one, is there any specific reference to asbestos in here? A Not -- not that I recall. Q Okay. Thank you. MR. FRENCH: Mr Gies, thank for your time. I don't have any further questions. THE WITNESS: You're welcome. MR. HAYS: Nothing here. MS. SCHMIDT: I just have one or two follow-ups, just about the safety manuals, Mr. Gies. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 138 CROSS-EXAMINATION, QUESTIONS BY MS. ANNE B. SCHMIDT: Q These safety manuals, how were -- to whom and o how were these disseminated; A Okay, these -- these were distributed to Marathon employees, and they were distributed at employees to put these in their back pockets, so that if they needed to refer to something, they would have something very convenient; hence the size of the manual being a pocket guide. So they did expect the Marathon employees to have them and refer to them as needed. Q And would that include referring to them as far as any dealings they had with outside 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 11 112 3 4 5 contractors ? A I think if there was a question, I think that this would be probably a primary reference for them in responding to any questions from outside contractors. Q Early in the deposition -- earlier in the deposition you talked about the management of existing asbestos in place. And when you re speaking of the management of existing asbestos 6 1 7 18 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 3 4 in place, you re speaking of the management of that existing asbestos regarding safety; is that 9 correct; A That is correct. Q So when you say management of existing asbestos in place, what do you mean? A ^What I mean is that the asbestos insulation is maintained in good condition, that it s -- that it s not damaged, and that it be properly identified and that obviously procedures are followed to ensure that there's not any excessive exposure. Q Okay. MS. SCHMIDT: That's all I have. THE REPORTER: Do you want signature? MS. SCHMIDT: You've taken or had your deposition taken a couple of times before. You're entitled to read the transcript and to determine not whether -- not to change any answer. THE WITNESS: Sure. MS. SCHMIDT: But to determine whether or not the court reporter took down your testimony as you gave it. Page 140 I won't recommend to you one way or the other. If you're comfortable reading the deposition and then signing it, that's fine. If you're comfortable waiving that right and assuming they took everything down correctly, that's fine also. THE WITNESS: I'm good with that. MS. SCHMIDT: So you'll waive your right to read and sign? THE WITNESS: I will. AND FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. (Signature Waived) 35 (Pages 137 to 140) PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 STATE OF INDIANA ) ) SS: COUNTY OF HENDRICKS ) Page 141 I, Debbi S. Austin, Public in and for the County of Hendricks, State of Indiana, at large, do hereby certify that RICK GIES, the deponent herein, was by me first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the aforementioned matter; That the foregoing deposition was taken on behalf of the Plaintiff at the offices of Cantrell Strenski & M ehringer, 2400 Market Tower, 10 West Market Street, Indianapolis, M arion County, Indiana, on the 30th day of April, 2009, commencing at 9:05 a.m., pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure; That said deposition was taken down in stenograph notes and afterwards reduced to typewriting under my direction, and that the typewritten transcript is a true record of the testimony given by the said deponent; and that the signature of said deponent to his or her deposition was waived; That the parties were represented by their Page 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 counsel as aforementioned. I do further certify that I am a disinterested person in this cause of action, that I am not a relative or attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this action, and that I am not in the employ of the attorneys for any party. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my notarial seal on this day of May, 2009. NOTARY PUBLIC My Commission Exxppiirres July 16, 2015 County of Residence: Hendricks County PohlmanUSA Court Reporting 36 (Pages 141 to 142) (314) 421-0099 Page 143 A abatement 41:4,10,16 81:3,7,11 able 11:15 44:4 67:8 74:3 117:17 135:5 absolutely 76:1 acceptable 21:11,13 access 33:22 76:23 77:2,3 79:3,3,4 80:20 accomplished 52:21 accurate 109:22 acid 121:2,8,12 125:5 acres 123:3 action 142:3,5 actions 49:8 actively 75:16 activity 19:19 actual 20:14 75:22 ad 77:5 add 59:1,2 73:11 87:17 addition 93:16 99:4 112:1 113:4 additional 11:5 75:18 93:9 118:7 additions 83:1 address 103:6 administrative 66:15 admit 66:22 admittedly 136:11 advantage 132:21 advantages 132:19 Advisory 114:9 115:21 116:1 affairs 4:15 5:22 54:19 63:21 affixed 142:9 aforementioned 141:9 142:1 ago 69:22 119:3 agree 31:10 60:7 105:13 118:8 agreed 5:11 7:7 ahead 16:12 32:1 55:7 55:9 103:5 118:21 129:8 ahold 28:7 air 26:22 27:13 28:24 29:13,19,21 30:6,13 30:19,20 32:5,7,12 33:5 83:4,21 84:7,14 85:2,5 91:1 96:5 97:6 airborne 25:14,16,19 29:6 30:18 52:24 al 1:8 alive 28:4 109:8 alky 121:4 123:5,8 125:1 126:12 alkylation 121:8,12 122:17 125:5,11 allow 67:7 allowed 6:23 ambiguously 129:6 Amended 4:10 8:1 American 74:11 79:22 80:2 87:11 113:16 113:19 amosite 36:10 39:24 40:4,9 127:18 amount 32:17 87:4 106:17 analyses 35:22 analysis 33:15,24 34:1 34:11,18,22 35:20 36:11 47:19,23 48:1 analyzed 37:3 39:16 40:2 analyzing 37:10 and/or 14:4 89:16 Anne 2:10 4:4 13:20 138:2 answer 16:12 25:7,11 25:12 26:11 27:4 29:5 32:2 34:3 41:22 42:3 43:5 44:1 48:4 58:17 63:1 65:4 67:8 68:23 72:13 74:2,4 80:21 96:24 103:5 106:3,4,14 110:11 110:11,12,13 118:16 118:21,22 128:16 129:7,22 134:6 139:20 answered 70:17 131:9 131:10 answers 23:13 24:22 53:23 74:23 anticipate 18:8 98:10 antics 46:8 anybody 41:15 43:12 46:11 61:2 118:9 API 74:12,13,17 79:20 80:15 113:15,22 114:10,12,13 135:11 API's 116:1 apologize 32:1 100:2 apparently 9:18 56:9 applies 67:1,9 apply 52:9 appreciate 21:22 22:9 75:21 apprised 75:8 approach 27:17 85:10 104:13 105:12 approaches 104:11 appropriate 29:14 72:5 132:3 appropriately 41:3 approval 22:18 approximate 99:2 approximately 18:12 25:1 39:15 72:21 85:17 95:18 99:8,12 100:8 121:18 122:23 126:16 April 1:18 5:14 9:22 46:24 54:3 57:12 141:14 archived 76:11 80:4 area 26:12,19,20 53:5 60:17 76:22 80:5 85:6,7,13,15,19 86:1 86:3,5,9,11 92:12,16 124:2,13 125:10,14 130:10 areas 15:3 26:10 53:4 85:5 area-wide 30:23 92:13 argue 84:16 ARMSTRONG 3:11 arrival 57:8 arrived 57:13 arriving 33:24 44:13 57:11 asbestos 10:11,16,17 10:23 11:7 14:19 15:11,15 16:2,10 17:24 18:13 22:24 23:9 27:17 32:4,8,13 32:16 33:15 34:2,6 36:6 37:3 38:5 39:17 39:19,22 40:2,5,14 41:5,7 47:5 48:6 52:13,20,24,24 53:2 53:4,12,17 54:4 55:20,24 56:3 57:3,7 58:7,20 60:11 61:8,9 61:15 62:6 63:4,8 64:1,1,7,10,23 65:6 67:19 75:15 78:5 81:3,7 85:14 96:4,5 97:2,6 98:13,14,16 98:20 99:1,19 101:15,18 102:24 104:12,15,19 105:2 105:8,16 106:12,20 106:24,24 107:16,20 111:3,5 114:17 117:3 127:12,15,19 127:21 128:11,18,22 130:9 131:15,17,21 132:8,9 133:12 136:13 137:12 138:23,24 139:2,5,7 asbestosis 110:7,15 asbestos-containing 38:2 40:15 69:2,8 71:19 75:5,13,14 78:6 79:15 103:22 104:10,13 127:6 129:3,19 131:5 137:7 asbestos-related 113:1 113:9 aside 9:12 12:6 89:13 89:19 104:22 110:16 asked 11:4 17:11 70:16,17,20 86:8 110:2 117:20,22 118:1 134:3 asking 40:12 56:19 83:24 113:20 130:18 asks 9:8 assess 98:3 assistance 15:13 17:12 assisted 42:16 assisting 24:21 associated 16:24 69:2 69:8 80:1 113:21 association 15:22 112:14 assume 19:10,10 78:18 102:10 105:7 120:14 assumed 113:3 assuming 45:22 104:18 131:16 140:5 assumption 46:2 60:23 60:24 61:1 attached 26:17 attempt 66:5 attempted 117:6 attendance 79:19 80:2 87:10 attended 113:17,21 attention 72:11 attorney 7:23 13:3,4 142:4 attorneys 142:6 August 16:19 18:14 57:13 Austin 1:15 141:4 author 56:24 57:4 authored 72:3 authoring 107:18 authors 65:20 authorship 70:12 available 6:15 28:14 28:16 36:15,18 43:20 44:13 55:2 58:12 88:15 average 92:7 avoid 102:11 aware 15:21 16:1,13 23:10 28:11 37:2 40:10 41:10 44:2,3 48:19 49:12,13 60:6 68:865:16 69:1 72:7 81:7 91:4 107:12 108:10 110:3 111:15 111:16,20 113:6 114:19 115:14,19 117:9 118:14 120:1 120:2,10,12,24 121:13 127:21 128:14 awareness 16:8 110:14 A-L-K-1121:4 A-L-K-Y 121:5 a.m 1:18 141:15 A.W 1:8 B B 2:10 4:4,8 138:2 142:13 back 32:17 34:5,20 44:18 47:15 48:3,4 51:8 53:23 62:24 64:22 67:14 69:21 77:21 79:7 84:3 85:16,21,22 91:12 101:5 132:7 134:12 136:4 138:8 background 13:7 71:4 84:22 backtrack 47:16 Bandy 65:13 91:8,23 92:7 bare 58:15 barrel 126:11,13 barricade 53:5 barricaded 85:13 barring 7:11 Bart 5:3 7:22 11:10 22:8 56:4 Barton 2:4 4:3 7:20 based 8:9 47:24 58:23 61:1 103:2 136:12 basically 47:11 50:24 71:1 75:1 130:12 basis 17:2 130:2,7 131:3 135:20 becoming 87:15 began 15:23 25:15,17 25:20 29:7 45:17 46:21 47:6 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 144 beginning 18.3,7 behalf 1:16 15:12,19 113:17 141:11 belief 59:15 61:11 believe 5:19 9:22 10:14 12:21 13:11 14:21 15:23 20:11 25:23 26:1 27:20 45:13 50:5,6,19 51:20 57:4 62:3,5 68:9 70:2 86:11 87:17 105:23 114:24 116:16 121:19 129:1 131:1,9 believed 25:16 belonged 81:1 benzene 10:24 135:11 135:15,17 best 11:15 79:13 92:20 112:19 122:1 131:14 135:23 better 6:1 76:6 122:20 131:2 132:12 134:10 135:7 beyond 110:6,9 118:17 Bick 1:5 12:16 14:9 111:22 112:1 113:6 117:21 119:22,23 121:2 Bick's 17:20 18:23 52:9 big 122:20,22,23,24 123:8,10 bigger 123:10 billing 19:10 binder 55:23 56:2,8,12 56:14,20 57:5 62:6,8 Biological 114:7 bit 6:16 18:5 30:10 39:14 55:13 81:9 90:24 96:16 107:23 135:6,9 black 129:22 block 122:23 blueprint 121:20 board 88:7 89:3,7 90:10 Bob 65:13 boilermaker 105:20 120:5 boilermakers 49:10 105:13,19 bones 58:15 books 44:12,16 46:1 bore 74:8,23 Box 2:12 3:12 break 18:9,10 36:5,9 45:9 51:8,9 67:7,15 91:3 113:13 133:14 brief 13:7 18:2 briefly 7:21 bring 8:15 121:19 broader 78:16 broadly 37:16 Broadway 2:5,18 broken 66:11 Broom 2:10 12:18 13:9 14:19 brought 6:9 8:17 9:4 9:10 45:14 46:15 133:23 134:1 135:1 Buchanan 3:12 buffer 125:10 bulk 26:6,6 32:5 33:7 33:9,11,23 34:18,21 35:6,15,17,19,22 36:3,24 37:3,4,9 38:24 39:5,6,16 40:1 47:19,22 48:1 81:12 81:14,22 BURNS 3:4 BUSHNELL 2:15 C C 2:1 3:1 142:13 calculation 91:22 call 17:6,7 26:6 53:14 53:15 93:6 111:11 111:11 124:21 129:21,23 131:13 132:1,10,12 called 19:24 66:18 73:23 83:19 88:18 88:18 107:1 113:2 114:6,9 121:4 126:10 Cantrell 1:16 141:11 capabilities 131:17 capability 131:20 capacity 16:9 43:6 care 90:6 career 116:9 carefully 101:14 case 7:11 9:17 11:7 12:16 13:17 14:9,15 14:16,20,23 15:1,10 15:11 16:2,10 17:10 17:20,20 18:18,23 19:11 24:8 30:16 35:24 41:1 61:6 62:7 102:10 104:17 112:8 112:15,15 113:2,3 117:21 119:9,18,22 120:15 cases 9:21 10:11,17 15:15 18:13,17 104:16 case-by-case 17:2 130:2,5,7 131:3 132:14 133:7 categories 9:9 79:12 94:7 category 78:2 79:18 causation 111:24 cause 1:7 142:3 ceiling 38:3 certain 26:9 59:17 69:15 82:2 114:4 132:17 certainly 25:9 67:21 100:14 117:8 120:12 127:17 certification 22:19 certify 141:6 142:2 cetera 40:19 52:19 chair 114:14 chance 46:11,12 change 40:1,4 102:22 110:14 115:2,6,15 129:16 139:19 changed 40:5 103:8 108:14 111:1,8,14 115:3 126:3,24 changes 115:14 changing 115:7 characterization 16:4 charge 19:13,14,21 52:22 Charles 65:14 check 50:1 checked 11:11 checking 11:13 109:18 chemicals 136:5,7 CHESTERTON 1:8 Chicago 3:20 chock 63:1 chrysotile 36:10 40:6 127:19 Cincinnati 20:11 CIRCUIT 1:1,1 city 28:20 122:23 125:2,3 Civil 1:19 141:16 clarify 14:22 122:13 clean 133:4 clear 15:7 33:8 39:7 47:7,8 56:1 92:11 94:15 95:10 125:16 136:20 clearly 33:20 135:13 client 17:21 closely 67:4 closer 33:1 125:15,19 125:22 closest 125:7 collect 91:8 collecting 91:24 come 27:7 87:1,2 comes 118:3 comfortable 134:15 140:2,4 coming 49:4 62:13 102:1 106:23 commencing 1:18 141:14 comment 104:22 comments 75:17 Commission 142:15 committee 114:3,4,6,9 114:13 115:21 116:1 committees 113:21 communicate 60:10 61:20 communicated 48:15 51:2 communicating 61:13 61:14 communication 48:21 49:15,18,22 60:16 63:16 79:2 95:4 communications 78:24 companies 87:12 company 1:8 2:9 5:23 6:5,7 17:14,15 19:5 23:13 48:6 50:20 73:17 74:12,17 86:18 87:17 111:6 114:19,22,23 115:8 115:9,17,17,19,24 company-wide 98:21 compared 106:22 compel 5:10 compilation 93:21 completely 16:22 compliance 107:15 complying 58:6 107:15 107:19 component 20:17 composite 119:24 120:3,9,17,23 comprehensive 95:17 96:3 97:10,12,16,17 98:1,6,12,18,24 99:7 99:18,21 129:2 131:3 comprehensively 133:8 136:12 computer 36:12 76:18 76:24 77:11,17 83:24 84:17,21,23 concentrate 43:23 concentrations 26:9 concern 49:7 concerned 7:7 22:15 49:2 127:19 concerning 36:21 concise 84:18 concluding 135:20 conclusion 62:1 condensation 58:10 59:1 66:4 condition 139:8 conditions 25:15,19 29:6 conduct 29:13 conducted 26:2 conference 88:2,3 conferences 87:24 confidential 75:22 confirm 55:14 65:2 109:18 confused 10:23 confuses 81:9 confusing 56:14,16,17 Congratulations 16:20 conjunction 81:17 85:20 connection 43:17 73:8 87:10 112:2 consider 89:6 132:11 considerable 87:4 125:10 considerably 136:8 considered 17:22 37:16 80:16 133:9 considers 17:16 consisted 120:3 consistent 49:7 58:18 67:23 78:12 82:16 111:6 consisting 124:9,21 consists 51:11 constantly 90:20 CONSTRUCTORS 3:8 consultant 17:17 130:23 consulted 18:13,17 consulting 17:5,6 contact 13:1,15,20 24:13 28:6 87:19,20 87:20 contacted 13:5,17 24:8 contacting 52:21 contain 52:23 105:2,6 contained 43:2 47:18 55:24 56:11 105:1 128:18 containing 102:24 105:8 126:2 128:12 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 145 128:22 contains 8:8 52:20 84:19 104:15,19 130:9 content 34:2 36:1 37:4 38:6 39:17 40:2,5 78:5 context 43:3 continue 41:4 131:2 continues 131:18 contracte d 108:23 111:21 contractor 52:19 106:11 111:21 contractors 4:14 48:18 48:22 49:2,3,9,19,22 51:3,14,22 53:3,13 59:12,16,19 60:4,13 60:16 61:14 62:20 67:3,10,17,18,22 68:4,6,14 92:23 106:17,19,22 108:8 111:17 113:7 120:23 138:16,20 contracts 59:18,18 control 25:14 54:5 63:9 64:1,7,10 CONT'D 3:1 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28:12 106:8,10 129:1,16 identification 5:2 9:2 45:8 51:7 64:21 identified 44:11 53:9 67:18 139:10 identify 99:2 103:22 129:24 134:4 135:6 IHF 73:13 79:20 80:22 80:24 116:22 IL 2:13 3:6,13,20 Illinois 1:2,18 9:18 51:14 images 102:1 imagine 35:7 36:5 38:8 38:9 impacted 61:10 impetus 87:14 implemented 54:5 implications 67:21 important 56:18 60:9 90:1 impression 80:10 improved 103:9 inappropriate 131:7 include 37:17 78:16 96:5 98:6,9,13,14,20 99:5 102:19,21 110:5 138:14 included 23:10 58:20 61:7,8 67:17 81:15 86:13 92:16,22 96:4 98:24 99:19 107:14 123:11 including 37:18 56:2 59:21 65:11 75:6 79:16 99:6 101:17 incorporate 105:12 incorrect 107:9 independent 104:4 indexes 136:12 Indiana 1:16,18 141:1 141:6,14 Indianapolis 1:17 5:16 141:13 indicate 39:9 49:14 93:12 indicated 26:14 27:11 27:16 43:19 60:18 102:4 104:9 indicates 68:13 indication 66:16 105:1 indications 28:23 individual 27:12,15,18 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 148 28:9 57:15,22 73:20 78:10 79:12 83:4 109:4 individuals 28:9,11 69:4 70:8,13,21 72:1 72:7 85:3 109:3 113:4,7 industrial 20:17 72:18 72:20,24 73:8 79:23 83:11,17 84:9 86:19 87:12 88:4,9,20 89:1 89:2,6,11,17,19 90:3 90:7,10,18 99:23 116:20 117:13,16 119:10 128:24 130:19,24 132:13 inform 49:9 informal 20:2 informally 11:4 information 6:18 8:20 9:9 17:13 21:14 26:13 27:5 28:7 29:11 32:20 36:21 42:3,21 43:1,8,9,13 43:14,16,18 44:1,4,6 44:7,8 45:19,20 46:20 48:7,14,22 53:18 57:6 61:21,24 63:2 69:6,10,11,13 69:14 70:6,9,14,22 70:23 71:4,18,23 72:9 73:12 74:3,6,19 75:5,12 76:19 84:5 84:17,20,22 115:23 infrequency 32:15 Inhale 83:19 initial 77:14 initially 87:19 insofar 67:22 instances 32:12 Institute 74:11 79:22 80:2 87:11 113:16 113:19 insulation 34:21 37:5 37:11,13,15,17,20 39:2,21 40:9,13,18 40:18,19 41:7 44:9 44:10 47:19 52:17 53:9,10 79:16 100:4 100:5,5,17 101:7,13 102:15,17,23 103:23 104:10,14 105:5,6 128:11,21 129:4,20 130:9,13,14 131:5 133:6 136:18 137:5 137:7 139:7 insulator 120:6 intended 58:3 59:10 62:16 intent 59:6 interested 43:7 142:5 interesting 8:6 58:1 interim 102:18 internal 107:13 interpret 58:1 interpretations 66:13 66:18 interpreted 57:24 interrogatories 11:1 15:14 23:14 24:22 25:1,3 41:20 53:24 68:18 69:16,18,22 74:24 interrogatory 25:7 27:4 41:23 63:1 65:4 68:20 71:11 72:13 interrupt 47:1 intervals 99:13 interviewed 88:13 invoices 79:15 involve 114:16 involved 15:1,11 32:16 65:17,24 87:8 88:20 88:23 89:11 in-house 13:8 ironworker 120:6 issue 23:1,3 75:3 93:24 issued 57:17 63:22 103:11 107:1 issues 75:2 94:4 it'll 31:23 J James 55:16 56:24 57:4 Jennifer 65:11,22 Jim 65:13 88:12 90:13 job 87:20 89:20,22 jobs 16:24 17:1 29:12 John 3:2 27:20 65:12 65:18 join 120:22 Joseph 1:5 9:20 12:16 14:9 112:8 117:21 judgment 129:21,23 131:13 132:1,10,12 JUDICIAL 1:1 July 142:16 jump 48:3 J.P 2:15 keeping 34:6 keeps 107:24 Keith 3:17 kept 30:11 34:14 35:6 35:10 76:16,17 78:7 78:9,14 79:14 80:8 81:4,13 83:6,7,10,11 83:22 84:3 94:5 108:7 key 59:7 88:13 132:5 kind 25:5 46:7 48:22 49:15 61:20 87:18 99:20 106:23 knew 87:21 know 7:10 10:4 17:6 17:12,13 21:11 23:17 24:17,20 26:11 27:21,21 28:4 28:6,9,17 29:23 30:17,23 31:5 32:9 32:11,22 33:1,23 34:3,4 36:12 40:3 42:15 43:5,12,24 47:21,23 49:16,17 50:8,9 53:14 54:24 58:5,5 60:12,19 62:21 68:5,17 69:21 70:13,21 75:18 77:2 79:17 80:12 82:13 82:18,18 88:22 89:18 90:5 92:22 93:7 94:12,16 95:15 98:18 99:7,14 100:11 102:6,13 106:22 108:24 109:7 109:9,10,22 110:2 110:11,12 112:10 113:11 114:11 115:4 116:10,24 118:22 119:15 121:1,16,18 128:5 129:22 131:8 131:24 132:3,8,16 132:17,21,22 133:4 134:3,6 135:21 knowing 96:21 133:11 knowledge 19:5 69:6 76:2 79:13 89:23 92:20 108:19 111:9 knowledgeable 17:23 known 115:8 K-A-D-I-V-N-I-K 9:21 10:5 K Kadivnik 9:20,23,24 10:7,8,19 50:7,19 112:5,8,17,21 113:5 keep 108:1 132:5 L L 1:7 142:13 lab 91:11 label 103:23 104:7,9 104:17 labeled 104:14 labeling 104:12 labels 104:5 laboratory 33:14 34:10,12 35:20 36:11 laborer 120:7 lagging 37:14,15 104:24 128:17 land 123:14,21,24 124:5,11 125:22 large 33:19 113:20 141:6 largely 66:14 larger 126:18,19 late 82:23,24 83:9 85:18 90:11 91:2,5 114:2 116:17 122:15 123:1 126:5,17 127:7 128:2 134:19 law 12:17 13:13,13 14:19 15:14 17:3 23:6 Lawrence 9:18 lawyer 43:4 101:19 lawyers 43:6 layout 121:21 layperson 84:12 leading 62:1 leak 130:11 learned 89:20 leave 32:11 110:21 129:14 leaving 111:6 led 74:3 87:16 left 65:18 130:17 legal 42:6 lend 17:13 lends 127:23 length 5:24 76:15 115:23 lengthy 113:24 Lenora 9:16 15:9 letter 51:11 let's 8:23 23:22 39:13 44:23 50:22 71:8 72:12 78:15 81:21 88:9 111:11 116:20 125:15 133:1 136:19 level 25:17 likelihood 52:3 limit 78:20 93:2,5,8 94:19 110:13 135:16 135:18 limited 47:22 97:16,23 100:21 line 45:6 51:10 94:21 106:6 125:4 list 21:18 56:6,11 85:1 literally 101:15 little 18:4 30:10,12 39:14 43:3 55:13 69:20 78:15 81:9 90:24 96:16 98:16 107:23 134:10 135:6 135:9,22 LLC 2:11 3:4,16 LLC's 23:13 local 103:14,16 locally 14:24 located 85:12,13 121:16,18 122:8,18 123:17,19 126:11 location 35:6,10 78:7 81:6,15 122:7 locations 99:24 logical 29:24 long 17:15 37:2 91:17 119:2 longer 80:11 87:5 134:14 long-term 78:22 look 7:24 22:22 29:12 44:23,24 62:18 75:19 76:8,11 86:2 105:21 122:6 134:23 looked 12:3 looking 16:14 23:12 40:24 41:21,23 50:14 67:4 84:19 94:9,10 95:8,12 looks 23:15 137:1 loss 88:18 lot 84:17 Louis 2:6,19 5:14 M M 4:1 MacDONALD 2:10 MADISON 1:2 MAHONEY 3:18 maintain 20:22 30:3 maintained 139:8 major 81:20 106:23 making 30:15 59:7 60:23,24,24 132:11 Malloy 13:6,8,17 24:13 manage 133:11 management 69:4 133:10 138:22,24 139:1,5 managers 57:21 manual 4:12,13,14 6:3 6:5,12,13 42:9 45:11 45:11 46:14,14 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 149 48:11,12 51:15 133:20 134:1,5,24 137:10 138:11 manuals 6:2 45:16 48:8,16 52:6,8 137:20 138:3 manufacturers 77:24 map 121:20 Marathon 2:9 5:5,12 5:22 6:4,7 7:1 9:17 11:13 13:3,4,11 14:19,24 15:12,19 15:21,22 16:1,9,16 16:24 17:2,5,16 18:14 19:1,9,11 21:2 23:13 24:23 25:24 26:3,24 27:22 29:2 30:3,7,7 31:6,7,10 31:18 32:15 34:1,13 34:17 37:2 38:5 41:5 41:8,24 42:3 43:6,19 44:5 45:18 46:22 47:6 48:6 49:1,2,8 49:19 50:20 51:13 52:10,21 53:12 54:5 58:24 59:10 60:8,9 60:10 61:1,12,15 62:13,17 66:5 67:24 68:22 69:4 71:1,9,12 71:17 72:3,8,20,23 73:1,1,18 74:3,6,13 74:16 75:3 76:8,10 79:14 80:24 82:16 87:20 88:1,11 91:14 92:19,21 98:19 102:21 103:3 105:16 106:18,20 107:14,24 108:1,16,20,22 110:3,5,18,21 111:1 111:18 113:8,17 114:20,23 115:9,10 115:16 116:9,21 117:20 118:9,10 119:11,19,23 120:11 120:17,22 121:17,22 124:7,8 126:2,5 127:7 128:2,9 129:2 130:22,23 138:6,12 Marathon's 13:13 17:23 18:19 25:7 30:14 34:5 60:11 68:20 71:10,16,21 73:12 74:23 77:7 79:18,18 82:5 133:5 March 23:24 24:14,17 Marietta 90:13 Marion 1:17 9:22 141:13 mark 8:23 9:6 45:5,10 51:10 marked 5:2 8:3 9:2 45:8 51:7 64:21,22 133:19 Market 1:17,17 141:12,13 MARSALEK 2:18 master's 20:10,13,15 material 33:12,13 38:12,23 39:3,9 40:17 41:2 52:20,23 76:12 83:16 98:7 104:18 105:2 materials 6:6 38:4 40:16 43:20 78:6 131:19 137:11 math 38:19 matter 7:17 14:5,10 15:19 20:4 141:9 McCAMBRIDGE 3:18 mean 10:1 16:5,6,6,7 19:20 24:7 26:22 29:8 30:2 31:19 33:9 43:4 49:16 70:4 73:1 90:6 92:14 95:12 97:13 122:5,13 139:6,7 meaning 31:11 36:9 measurements 25:17 measuring 26:9 medical 65:14 79:4 80:16,17 107:24 108:1,7 110:20 111:24 114:9 115:20 116:1 Medicine 114:7 meet 78:23 meeting 87:11 meetings 79:19 80:3 113:18,21 114:3,5 116:6,8,10,14,16 Mehringer 1:17 141:12 member 12:17 72:20 72:23 73:17 74:12 74:13,17 115:20,24 120:4 members 73:20 membership 73:19 memo 27:15 28:13,19 107:18 memory 24:10 96:8,16 96:18 104:4 memos 107:13 mention 81:5 87:14 135:11 mentioned 11:24 12:1 24:7 59:1 82:3 83:7 103:21 105:10 128:7 135:10 mesothelioma 108:12 108:17,23 109:12,20 111:19,22 112:10 met 7:21 80:13 88:1 methodology 26:15 27:14 28:14,16 Metropolitan 2:5 Michele 13:6 21:5 mid 27:11 49:8,18 79:8 118:11 120:11 122:13,15 123:1 124:17 126:5,17 127:7 128:2 135:19 135:24 136:1 middle 116:17 MILLER 3:4 million 21:16 135:18 mind 118:3 125:17 minimal 106:22 minimize 103:15 missing 46:4 MO2:6,19 modification 126:7 127:3 modifications 126:14 moment 25:2 45:1 47:16 50:3,9,23 54:7 64:6,18 monitor 97:19 98:3 monitored 28:10,12 monitoring 26:8,12,13 26:18,20,23 27:13 27:17 28:24,24 29:14,19,22 30:6,14 30:19,20,22,23 31:4 31:5 32:3,5,6,8,13 32:23 33:5 63:4 65:6 83:4,5,22,22 84:7,14 85:2,4,5,7,8,11,18,19 85:21,22 86:1,4,4,6 86:7,10,11 88:21 89:12 91:9,24 92:12 92:15,16,18,22 93:19 94:11 96:4,5 97:3 98:13,15,20 99:19 108:2 110:20 118:12 monitors 97:6 month 12:19 24:9,11 monthly 91:22 months 34:9 57:10 morning 11:10 MORRISSEY 3:11 MOSER 2:18 motion 7:1 motions 5:10 MSDS 77:15,16,21 MSDSs 78:1 MUDD 2:4 MUDGE 3:11 M-A-R-I-E-T-T-A 90:16 N N 2:1 3:1 4:1,1,1,8 142:13 name 7:22 9:21 27:20 67:18 74:17 89:12 109:2 114:20,22,23 115:2,6,6,7,15,20 national 73:16,22 79:22 80:7 87:24 116:6 nature 41:2 87:6 nauseam 77:5 near 78:16 necessarily 34:6 98:14 130:19 necessary 42:3 44:1 70:14 75:12 130:12 need 5:4 18:9,10 86:15 87:1,17 90:13 98:3 103:13 107:2 113:13 133:1 needed 48:14 59:8 136:5 138:9,13 needs 15:7 29:13 never 27:8 new103:12 news 116:3 NFC 79:20 nine 123:6 NIOSH 27:13 NOCE 2:11 nonasbestos 53:9 104:18 130:14 nonlawyer 43:24 normally 26:17 87:8 north 2:5,18 3:12 122:10 notarial 142:9 notary 1:15 23:23 141:4 note 5:4,14,18 6:14 8:7 9:14 21:20 notes 48:5 107:19 133:14 141:18 notice 1:19 4:10,11 8:2 10:14 noticed 61:22 notices 50:19 notification 93:17 94:13 November 5:7 51:12 NSC 73:23 74:6 80:7 116:14 nudge 22:9 number 9:8 32:9,12 33:4,6,19 35:8 43:20 65:10 O O 4:1,1,8 142:13 oath 107:7 object 16:3 103:1 110:8 118:13,24 129:5 objection 71:12 72:15 103:4 110:10 118:20 119:1,2 129:7 131:6 objections 42:1,5 68:22 observing 100:23 103:18 obtained 69:5 obtaining 5:9 obvious 103:14 obviously 6:19 18:18 23:17 24:2 25:21 31:16 33:3 36:6 46:3 59:24 86:13,17 88:23,24 89:24 111:16,23 113:19 139:10 occasionally 31:15 occurred 92:4 93:10 93:13 102:17 115:7 115:15 116:11 118:10 occurring 101:15 office 5:14 13:12 31:16 offices 1:16 141:11 offsite 76:20,21 oh 10:6,9 23:22 44:18 96:14 101:2 106:6 112:7 126:23 Ohio 57:17 73:17 74:11,17 77:18 114:19,22 115:8,17 115:19,24 oil 5:22 6:4,7 45:18 46:22 47:6 48:6 51:14 73:17 74:11 74:17 87:12 114:19 114:20,22,23 115:9 115:17,19,24 okay 8:6,19,22 9:14 10:9 11:3 12:2,24 13:15 14:3 15:2,18 16:18 17:4,18 20:5 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 150 20:16 21:23 22:4,10 23:20 24:4 25:21 28:16,16 30:1,10 31:20,21,22 33:7 34:4 35:5 37:23 38:24 41:19 42:7 43:22 44:4,18,21 45:9 46:19 47:4,15 48:20 50:3,13,15 51:4,19 53:11,22 54:12,21 55:10 56:13,21 57:6,9 60:14,19 61:4,22 62:7,24 63:11,17 64:6,14 65:9,21,23 66:22 67:11 68:3,12 70:4 71:2 72:6 73:11 75:20 76:4 77:5 78:14 79:11 80:12 81:9,18 82:8,11,24 83:13,21 84:24 85:9 85:16 86:13,15 87:17 88:16 90:12 90:17 92:11,18 93:20 94:3 95:23 96:15,20,23 97:9,22 99:7,11 100:1,16 101:10,19 103:12 104:20 105:13,18 106:1,9 107:12 108:20 111:13,23 112:7,9,19 113:23 114:3,8,12,16 115:6 115:14,19 117:1,6 117:24 118:3,24 120:3 121:11,24 122:9,17,20,24 123:4,17,21 124:5 124:19 126:1 127:1 127:20,24 129:14,15 130:18 132:10 134:3 134:11,23 135:23 137:1,8,14 138:5 139:13 old 135:14 once 110:21 133:7 ones 11:24 12:1 13:23 80:15 ongoing 40:23 onsite 95:18 on-the-job 117:15 open 53:24 68:18 operating 42:9 48:7,11 48:12,16 49:21 51:2 51:21 52:2 53:16 58:18 66:8 operations 87:13 89:21 opinion 47:17 61:7 119:6 oppo rtunity 15:5 105:15 106:21 opposed 32:5 92:13 97:16,23 oral 1:14 order 5:12,24 7:7 organization 6:4,6 13:13,14 15:14 17:3 80:24 113:20 115:3 organizational 79:19 organizations 79:21 organized 39:1 orientation 136:6 orientations 47:5 original 23:11 36:14 36:17,20 76:19 84:19 119:4 originally 8:9 134:13 136:2 originals 44:20 OSHA 23:5,8 53:2 58:11,19,20 59:2,2,5 59:16,21 66:4,10 80:20 87:15 103:10 107:16,21 111:7 127:19 OSHA's 69:3 ought 91:3 122:15 outcome 6:24 outlined 53:2 outside 13:9 16:24 17:1 33:14 48:17 49:9,19 53:13 59:12 60:4,9,13 61:14 67:2 67:10,17,18 68:6,14 79:19 84:13 91:11 92:23 108:8 111:17 113:7 120:23 126:1 126:4,21,23 138:15 138:19 overall 55:21 oversee 29:18 owned 124:7,8 O'CONNELL 3:4 P P 2:1,1 3:1,1 142:13 packing 2:15 52:18 page 4:2,9 25:6,13 41:21 45:23,23,24 45:24 46:4 48:4 52:12,12 54:1 68:19 68:20 71:9 96:13,14 105:23 106:2 136:18 137:2 pages 5:23,24 64:24 72:12 pamphlet 46:14 pamphlets 9:3 12:3 45:14 133:23,24 paper 122:2 paragraph 25:11,12 41:24 42:5,11,14 43:17 44:5 68:21,23 68:24 69:11,12 70:5 70:15 71:12,13,15 72:14,16 73:15 106:4 parcel 124:9 part 22:22 35:4 43:16 43:18 55:4,17,21,23 56:7,11 57:7 62:8 69:13 70:6 74:20 99:2 100:11,14 114:6 117:12 123:11 participating 116:22 particular 17:11 23:1 24:3 35:24 36:13 44:11 75:3 85:5,6 112:14 117:8,20 136:7 parties 141:24 parts 44:5,6 135:17 party 142:4,7 Parziale 27:20,22 28:4 65:12,18 pass 11:16 PC 3:11 peek 64:15 pending 7:11 people 19:7 25:24 49:3 65:11,16 87:5,8 88:1 88:7,10,17 89:10,13 98:15 107:13 127:22 134:12 percent 37:7,11 38:13 38:15,15,16,18,18,21 38:23 percentage 36:1,6,24 37:6,22 38:8 128:20 percentages 37:24 perimeter 126:2,4,22 126:23 period 19:5 32:10 33:22 34:8,23 39:13 69:5 82:2 100:21,22 101:3 113:24 person 17:22 19:1 84:13 85:12 88:13 89:5 90:9,12 104:9 142:3 personal 26:7,12,18 30:22 31:4,5 32:22 53:6 83:4,22 85:8,17 85:20,22 86:4,6 91:8 91:24 92:15 97:6 119:6 136:16 personally 48:21 55:1 117:11 128:13 personnel 25:17 53:2 persons 5:8 89:5 perspective 19:9 128:24 130:21,21 Petroleum 2:9 23:13 74:11 79:22 80:2 87:11 113:16,19 physically 77:17 123:24 picture 122:20 125:16 piece 8:20 33:12 122:2 123:14 pin 134:9 pipe 37:14,15 40:18 100:5 104:24 105:5 105:6 128:17 130:11 pipefitter 120:9 place 1:19 41:8 53:19 61:23 75:18 76:11 91:17,18 110:24 128:11 129:4 133:12 133:15 138:23 139:1 139:6 placing 99:23 plaintiff 1:6,16 5:4,6 5:11,13 6:21 7:23 11:8 14:10 141:11 plaintiff's 4:9 5:1 7:1,9 8:7 9:1 14:4 21:9 23:14 45:7 51:6 64:20,23 PLAINTIFF(S) 2:3 plan 63:9,16 64:8,10 66:2,19 67:1,9,15,17 68:7,13 108:2 117:19 plant 53:17 106:11 121:3,4 122:19 133:3 please 14:6 18:6,9 42:14 68:24 71:15 72:17 77:10 81:5 106:15 129:9 plenty 46:9 pocket 138:11 pockets 138:8 point 8:7 10:21 20:3 21:4 73:24 76:12 84:18 122:16 128:13 points 32:7 59:7 policies 17:24,24 policy 52:13 53:12,14 53:19 54:7 62:16 66:14 68:6 77:7 78:13 80:14 81:24 82:4,6,8,12,15,19,22 83:3 86:16 111:8,11 131:2 portable 26:16 posed 71:20 position 87:1,2 90:21 90:21 positions 114:12 possession 34:17 73:13 possibly 10:24 81:16 120:6 posting 87:23 88:1,3 potential 14:15 69:7 89:23 131:22 potentially 80:16 practice 34:10 48:19 48:20 102:11 111:4 111:12 120:10,12,21 129:17,18 130:3,15 130:16 131:1 132:13 practices 6:4 49:12 136:3,24 predate 57:9 predated 57:8 62:14 134:15,16 predates 134:18 predecessor 74:16 115:20 prefer 21:15 131:14 premises 23:14 61:2 preparation 13:22 14:1,16 20:6 prepare 11:22 prepared 7:2 27:10 preparing 14:12 19:21 present 61:3 83:9 126:6 presently 22:16 preservation 77:7 presumably 89:10 pretty 20:2 40:9 130:3 130:15 135:14 prevention 88:18 previous 9:12 11:23 15:4 34:7 56:23 77:1 83:15 86:23 100:1 108:6 114:20,22 128:16 previously 54:8 63:6 111:17 113:8 115:8 133:19 primarily 39:24 40:4 70:20 primary 70:11 133:5,8 138:18 prior 6:22 8:5 9:14 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 151 18:22 24:14,17 26:23,24 28:18 29:1 29:11 33:24 40:22 44:13 52:6,8,17 53:19 57:11 62:12 71:18 p rob ably 8:6 9:5 12:19 18:16,24 19:4 20:8 27:11 29:10 33:6 34:22 37:7,21 38:11 40:22 49:24 59:14 61:7,17 67:4 69:23 70:11 72:2 73:3 74:5 76:20 78:8 79:9 80:10 82:23 84:11 84:16 86:1 88:12 90:3,9 91:18 92:9,20 99:9 101:2 106:16 106:21 114:1 116:18 126:18 132:16 133:12 135:8,19 136:1,8 138:18 p roblem 98:11 130:10 132:1 p rocedure 1:19 4:14 48:11,12 49:21 51:2 51:21 52:2 53:16 93:2,4 94:17,18 106:24 141:16 p roced u res 42:9 48:8 48:16 51:15 66:8,16 68:1 90:1 102:4 103:12 117:10 118:15 139:10 p roceeding 12:11 process 6:15 13:19 22:19,19 40:23 75:23 88:23 91:1,17 91:18 92:1,4 95:9 101:4 102:14 103:18 122:5,22 123:7,12 123:14 124:1 127:3 130:5 133:2,4 processing 123:18,22 124:6,10 125:23 produce 5:12 52:24 84:14 produced 1:15 5:5 6:18 11:8 22:6 32:21 35:16 52:10 56:15 62:8,10 86:14 99:18 134:13 135:5,7,8 p rod ucts 37:12 69:3,9 71:19 75:5 79:16 program 54:5 61:23 62:4,12 63:4,12 64:2 64:24 65:6 67:19,20 67:24 106:24 p roj ect 52:22 117:9 projects 114:15,16 prominent 87:16 promulgated 58:21 79:8 pronounced 65:12 proper 53:6 properly 139:9 property 49:4 123:20 124:4,5 125:4 126:8 protecting 22:23 protection 20:20 22:14 61:23 62:3 63:24 p rotective provide 5:17 13:21 3 21:1 42:2 44:4,6,7 49:5 57:6 69:14 70:11 71:23 78:1 93:17 111:4 131:19 provided 7:109:15 12:4 15:13 21:3 33:14 41:24 43:8,13 43:16,18 44:1 54:17 56:7,10 67:23 68:6 69:11,13,17,22 70:23 72:8 75:17 83:1 provides 66:18 providing 17:1 33:3 48:14 70:8 88:14,21 provisions 66:11,12 proximity 125:14 P ublic 1:15 141:5 publications 119:17 pump 26:16 pumps 52:18 purpose 111:20 131:17 131:18 purposes 17:19 pursuant 1:18 23:7 141:15 put 10:2 21:11,18 26:18 66:5 84:4,23 102:5 122:1 138:8 putting 24:21,21 42:21 104:17 P.C 2:18 P.O 2:12 3:12 Q q ualified 53:1 70:19 qualify 58:8111:10 qualities 127:22 question 16:8,12 20:9 25:8,10 26:11 33:12 42:4,16 43:1 47:7 49:17 58:17 67:8,16 72:22 76:6,7 84:15 94:16 97:14 103:2,8 106:2,3,7 115:5 118:14,21,23 119:2 119:4 128:19 129:6 129:6,22 130:6,20 130:24 131:7,10 135:3 138:17 questions 4:3,4 7:20 15:6 25:2,22 42:13 47:3 51:16 54:6 55:15 74:23 94:14 94:22 137:16 138:2 138:19 quickly 39:1 quite 85:21 16 39:9,10 R R 2:1 3:1 142:13 rail 124:11 railcar 124:3 rate 19:16,18 read 15:5 20:9 23:20 25:8,12 27:4 42:11 52:15 68:23 72:16 73:15 74:9 86:23 97:10 106:3 107:2 119:3,5 129:13 136:11 139:18 140:9 readable 84:12 reading 29:15 42:14 66:24 91:6 140:2 reads 46:23 really 25:10 43:7 95:8 111:10,10 135:14 136:3,6 reason 61:24 99:20 recall 12:20 15:16 23:1 23:3 24:19 31:3 38:7 40:8,16,20,21 48:2 49:23 59:4 74:1 89:12 92:24 95:23 96:6 97:1,5 100:9 104:21 107:3,17,18 107:22 112:18,22,23 117:14 120:19 127:24 128:4 137:13 received 6:20 recess 51:5 64:19 67:13 113:14 133:17 recite 71:14 recognition 87:3 recollect 99:15 recollection 28:19 36:2 40:8 58:24 73:7 95:20 101:12,21,24 105:4 116:13 recommend 140:1 reconstruction 117:2,4 117:13,17,19 118:9 118:16 record 11:9 21:12 33:9 45:22 47:7 50:16,22 51:8 64:17,22 67:12 67:14 78:21 82:15 108:6 119:5 129:13 141:20 records 11:11 26:21 26:22 30:3,8,11 33:23 34:5,17,18 35:5 78:12,14,19,21 79:4,5,6,9 80:1,3,4,6 80:8,10,13,17,18,20 81:23,24 82:3,12,19 83:6,7,10 84:4 85:16 86:14 99:17 107:24 108:1,7 110:19 118:12 132:5 Red 89:9,14,15,18 109:6,7 redepose 6:21 reduced 141:18 REED 3:11 reemphasize 59:6 refer 138:9,13 reference 28:20,21 67:2 71:22 73:21 76:24 105:10 127:2 136:15,16,18 137:5 137:6,12 138:18 referenced references 136:13 referencing 135:14 referred 48:10 63:6 referring 16 33:17 37:14 45:16 45:20 46:1,13,20 47:9,12 48:9 51:19 51:24 54:11 65:3 71:10 83:14 135:17 138:14 refers 49:21 refineries 27:16 71:20 104:11 refinery 8:21 12:4 25:15,20 26:10 28:21 29:7,22 30:14 30:21 31:19 40:13 44:9 49:10 61:3 75:6 75:15 76:3 85:6 89:8 90:18 97:13 98:7 105:14 109:5 120:18 120:20 121:3,17,22 122:8 123:1,11,20 126:5,16 128:2,10 Refining 6:4,6 reflects 66:9 refresh 6:16 refreshes 96:8,18 regard 51:21 53:12 97:2 137:10 regarding regardless 19:19 regular 102:11 regulations 23:6,9,11 51:15 66:10 69:3 103:10 reinforcement 106:12 related :6,15 relating 7:16 relation 12 :23 relative 73:13 125:13 1 2: relatively 38:11 release 61:9 relevance :8 relevant 69:5 79:9 97:20 remain 19:18 40:7 remaining 37:9,12 38:18 129:3,19 131:4 remedy 93:3 remember 21:21 22:2 29:16 38:5 39:10 73:5,9 82:21 100:2 103:24 104:2 120:16 130:16 remodeling 40:24 removal 1:7 101:12 102:16 130:8 132:2 remove 129:3,19 130:1 130:12 132:4,13,14 132:24 133:6 removed 100:17 101:13,14,14 102:23 132:6 removing 40:13 102:14 132:21,22 renovation 81:21 repeat .29:9,11 repetitious 69:17 rephrase 79:1 replaced 126:13 130:14 report 91:13 93:15 95:1,23 109:19 119:9 reported 89:10 reporter 45:1,10 51:10 119:3 129:10 139:15 139:23 reports 34:12,13 35:8 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 152 35:19 36:15,16,18 36:20 37:12 39:5,6 39:20 48:1 93:23 94:3 95:13 representative 33:13 52:22 95:13 rep resented 12:10 14:24 141:24 representing 17:21,21 reproducible 35:13 36:18 request 11:5 21:9,13 21:23 22:5 30:13 33:21 35:5,15 55:6 56:1 73:11 74:21 82:11 84:24 86:14 94:7 95:10 requested 5:20 7:9 requesting 94:24 require 78:22 required 7:8 57:21 58:3,11,16 59:5 63:3 65:5 111:7 requirement 77:24 requirements 58:19 59:3,16,21 66:4 78:23 80:14 requires 5:12 research 135:6 reserves 6:21 Residence 142:17 residents 125:12 resolved 7:12 respect 17:23 23:9 123:18 124:20 respirator 53:7 respirators 22:14,16 22:20,23 respiratory 20:20 22:14 61:23 62:3,11 63:24 respond 17:9 67:5 119:6 responded 87:24 104:3 responding 138:19 response 7:4 8:14,17 41:22 43:9,14 68:21 71:10 118:2,3,19 responses 7:7 11:1 18:19 24:24 69:16 responsibility 90:17 responsible 5:9 69:24 70:2,6,8 88:8 responsive 5:13 rest 51:12 104:18 restatement 66:10 result 93:1,5,7,19 results 26:22 27:9 84:15 86:4,5 91:12 91:24 92:12,13,17 93:16 97:1 resume 8:23 retained 76:20 79:10 80:4 81:8,20 retention 78:13,22 80:14 81:24 82:4,12 82:15,19 131:16,20 retire 16:18 retired 16:15,22 19:1 28:1 41:8 77:3 128:9 128:15 retirement 18:14,16 18:23 31:8 33:18 41:5,11,13,16 retrieve 75:12 77:8 retrieving 75:24 revealing 12:13 review 13:21 14:3,11 24:24 46:11,12 64:18 67:8,15 71:14 133:14 135:12 reviewed 6:20 11:23 13:24 14:14 26:14 66:23 72:4 reviewing 15:2 71:16 73:5,7 104:2 revision 84:10 revisions 82:17 83:1,3 Rick 1:12,15 7:14 71:18 141:6 right 6:21 10:6 20:19 22:12 23:12 28:22 29:4 35:12 38:19,23 39:11 47:1 48:3 52:1 57:11 62:24 66:1 67:7 68:19 71:8 72:11 74:22 75:9 81:3 82:24 90:24 94:7 99:14,17 116:5 119:21 120:22 125:24 137:4 140:4 140:8 risk 4:14 5:21 54:18 61:3,5 63:21 71:20 risks 69:1,7 RMR 1:15 141:4 road 3:5 125:12 Robinson 25:15,20 28:18,21 29:1,7,22 30:14,21 31:1,7,11 31:19 33:17 35:16 40:11,13,20 41:11 41:13,15 51:14 57:16 58:6 73:2 75:6 75:15 76:2 78:10,15 78:17 79:6,14 83:5 85:3 86:10,12 88:24 89:7,8 90:4,5,7,18 91:2,8 95:14,18,23 96:3,17 97:13 98:22 98:23 99:15,21 100:6,10,12,18 101:22 102:20 103:7 103:23 104:5,22 105:3,4 110:6,9,13 120:18,19 121:3,14 122:16,24 124:23,24 127:8,9 128:2,10,21 129:4 Robinson's 53:12 Rock 119:9,13,15,19 rope 38:2,2 roped 53:4 rough 38:20 92:8 roughly 24:20 34:23 34:24 rules 1:18 6:3 136:3,4 136:22 141:15 running 101:9 S S 1:15 2:1 3:1 4:8 141:4 safe 6:3,5 49:5 68:1 136:2,22,24 safety 4:12,13,136:2,3 6:3,5,12,12 8:21 12:5 17:24 25:17 42:7 44:9 45:10,11 45:17 46:13,14,21 47:5,8 54:11 55:18 55:22 57:1 61:5 73:16,22 76:12 78:18 79:23 80:7 83:16 87:5,7 88:19 89:8,16,21,24 102:3 109:4 116:6 133:19 134:1,5,24 136:3 137:10,20 138:3 139:2 SAITH 140:12 Sales 79:15 sample 33:10,11,13,23 34:6,21 35:22 36:1 39:3,16 81:12,15 84:19 93:11 samples 26:6,7 32:9 33:8 35:6,16,18,20 36:3,24 37:3,4,9 38:10,21,24 39:2,2,5 39:7 40:1 81:14,22 91:9 92:6 sampling 26:16 27:14 84:9 91:1 97:7 Satterfield 9:17 14:23 15:1,10 62:2 103:21 105:22 110:18 112:2 113:5 saved 76:14 saw 28:19 40:12 93:4 100:9,12 101:4,6,23 102:14 103:16 105:5 120:17 saying 22:2 28:13 38:14,16,17 43:11 50:13 58:15 125:6 says 63:22 98:2 scale 132:2 scanned 66:23 Schmidt 2:10 3:4 4:4 7:3,6 9:24 10:6 11:9 12:10,15,16,21 13:20 14:18,22 16:3 16:11 17:16 21:5,15 21:19 22:1,7 30:15 30:24 31:9,13,18,21 31:23 32:1 35:17 38:14 39:4 42:24 44:17,19 45:3,21 46:4,7,17 50:5,11,15 54:22 55:7,10 56:4 56:21 63:13,17 64:9 64:14 70:16 71:3 103:1 110:8 112:5 112:13,22 115:4 118:5,13 122:12 127:8 129:5 131:6 136:23 137:19 138:2 139:14,16,22 140:8 Sciences 114:7 scope 118:17 Scott 3:4 scuttlebutt 108:18 se 80:18 seal 142:9 SEALING 3:16,16 Sears 3:19 second 4:10 8:1 52:12 66:15 68:22 71:13 72:16 79:18 95:2 96:11 section 44:11 52:13,15 63:24 66:15,17 73:21 sections 66:12 101:14 Securities 51:14 security 4:13 124:15 125:11 see 11:13 23:22 62:19 71:8 73:14 75:12 85:2 86:23 100:13 111:2 116:20 129:11 136:13,15,19 seeing 39:19 104:5 120:16 seeking 5:7 seen 8:4,5 21:5,6 23:17 26:21 27:8 30:1 35:23 36:3 39:16 47:24 50:9 52:5 55:1 73:22 74:15 76:24 77:12 82:20 87:23 100:3,17 101:11 102:16,20 119:9 SEGAL 3:18 send 91:9 92:1 sending 92:7 sense 32:19 84:15 sent 5:15 94:8 sentence 25:22 27:3 29:4,5 63:2 71:5,14 71:22,24 72:2,9,17 sentences 25:21 separate 63:19,23,23 93:17 94:3 123:14 separated 124:1,3,14 separately 62:9 separating 123:21 serve 131:18 served 131:17 services 134:12 set 8:9 39:11 142:8 setting 8:11 seven 91:18 Seymoure 3:10 shape 127:17,22 Shaw 9:20 10:14,19 91:7 95:16 96:12 112:4,8,10,21 113:5 sheet 83:17 84:13 sheets 76:12,14,16,17 77:16,21 short 45:9 51:8 67:7 67:14 133:13 show 23:15,16,16 50:24 94:24 95:14 95:14 96:7,9 121:20 135:4 showed 93:1 showing 74:16 76:9 78:5 121:21 side 122:18 123:19,23 124:10 126:8,12,15 sign 24:1 140:9 signature 23:18 139:15 140:15 141:22 signed 18:18 23:21,23 24:3 signing 140:3 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 153 signs 19:2 similar 40:7 60:21 63:19 85:10 87:12 90:21 121:21 123:5 123:5 127:16,16 131:19 simple 49:17 simpler 76:6 simply 122:7 SINGER 3:18 sit 118:4 site 90:8 siting 124:3 sitting 62:21 situated 29:17 situation 52:9 94:10 six 20:8 size 123:5 126:17 127:3 138:11 skills 106:19 Slaughter 55:16 56:24 57:4 65:13 88:12 small 8:21 12:3 26:16 38:11 Sologub 65:11,22 somebody 90:20 sorry 14:6 45:21 48:3 55:8 106:5,6 107:2,2 122:12 136:21 sort 29:1 40:23 84:22 102:5 108:7 111:24 124:12 South 3:18 Sovin 65:13 speaking 119:1 138:24 139:1 special 66:18 specific 32:9,12 40:21 49:12 73:10 82:21 101:21,23 137:11 specifically 32:3,4 33:15 62:19 64:7 75:14 103:7 117:3 120:19 136:13 specifics 96:21,23 104:21 126:9 specify 31:11 134:18 speckled-type 53:10 speckles 105:1,5,7 speculate 68:11 speculative 118:19 spell 9:20 90:14 spelling 10:3 spent 20:5 24:20 spoke 11:9 spoken 41:15 119:13 Square 2:5 SS 141:1 St 2:6,19 5:14 stab 131:11 stand 107:11 standard 42:8 48:7,11 48:12,16 49:20 51:1 51:21 52:2 53:3,15 58:11,13,20 66:7 78:24 79:2,8 80:20 84:6 106:13 standards 107:16,20 standpoint 119:7 120:13 stands 121:7,8 Stanley 112:2 start 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119:18 Suite 2:6,12,19 3:5,19 sum 9:9 summary 22:12 supervise 29:19 supervisor 89:8 109:4 supervisor's 89:22 supplemented 59:5 supplied 27:5 69:10 70:14,22 supply 2:16 47:22 support 15:13 17:2 88:14 supports 73:3 suppose 37:15 74:2 132:19 sure 7:5 8:16 14:7,7 16:5 21:21 29:23 31:14 34:20 50:4 55:2,2 57:1 59:7 65:22 70:7 72:6 75:8 78:20 80:6 90:15 94:15 105:24 114:11 115:5,11 118:1 129:10 133:22 139:21 surfactants 101:17 survey 95:17 96:3 97:10,12,17,23 98:1 98:13 99:8 surveys 98:18,24 99:18,21 suspected 102:23 swoop 132:15 sworn 1:15 7:15 141:8 system 36:17 110:24 systems 26:8 S-O-L-O-G-U-B 65:12 T T 2:4 4:1,3,8 7:20 142:13 take 18:4 25:9 27:17 42:13 45:1 50:3 64:6 64:15 67:7 113:13 116:5 131:11 133:13 taken 1:16 14:8 32:10 33:12,13 51:5 64:19 67:13 81:16,22 102:9 104:11,13,17 113:14 133:17 139:16,17 141:10,17 talk 12:15,17 39:13 90:24 94:4 talked 55:12 81:10 95:15 110:16 138:22 talking 25:24 26:1 30:24 32:3,4,21,23 39:4,22 40:3 42:4,7 42:8 43:1 64:9 71:3 71:4 77:16 78:18 81:12 82:5 83:16 88:4 92:12 98:21 100:23 107:19 tank 123:9,10,13,19,22 124:1,6,12 125:20 125:23 tape 53:5 task 102:9 114:14 technical 84:20 87:7 87:18 88:14 TECHNOLOGIES 3:16,16 technology 103:7,9 Telephonically 2:16 3:3,9 tell 7:15 8:3 21:15 32:14 101:12,23 102:2 123:3 134:8 141:8 template 66:20 ten 132:23 tenure 28:2 31:6 33:17 37:1 82:16 116:17 116:18 term 97:9,15 127:11 terms 16:23 17:12 22:13 23:3 34:5 60:15 67:16 101:11 122:5 125:13 126:1 126:4,21,23 tested 38:5 testified 7:17 11:7 15:18 62:2 100:1 testify 6:24 113:2 testifying 56:9 testimony 14:11,14 34:7 56:23 63:7 96:6 96:7,10 104:1 107:4 119:21 139:23 141:21 testing 33:7,9,11 91:11 tests 32:22,24 38:8 Texas 28:20 thank 16:21 18:11 53:22 71:2 112:6 137:14,15 thereof 1:19 thermal 37:5,11,13,15 37:19 39:2,20 40:9 40:18 41:7 47:19 100:4,17 101:7 102:15,16 128:11,20 129:19 130:9,13 131:16,19 Thermo-12 104:24 105:11 thesis 20:10,19,23 22:13,15,17,22 thing 21:8 30:12 50:6 53:22 56:4,5 132:5 things 5:15 21:16,24 37:24 54:2 55:14 56:6,17 93:21 101:17 think 6:16 8:22 12:8 13:19 15:7 17:10 18:4 24:3 29:23 30:1 31:23 33:16 38:4 41:19 43:17 44:10 45:3 48:20,21 49:20 49:23 51:1 52:12 53:24 54:8 57:12,24 58:17 59:6,14,17 60:17 61:6 62:14 63:7 68:11 70:10,11 70:16,16,17,18 72:2 74:20,22 75:21 76:6 76:19 77:6 80:8,13 84:16 85:21 86:9,15 87:3,9,13,23 89:20 89:22 94:17 96:1,13 96:14 98:7 99:9,16 100:1 103:6,20 104:22 105:9,17 118:16 119:6,7 120:20 121:3 122:3 122:14 124:2 125:9 126:7,9 128:7,15 129:18,21 131:7,13 131:13 132:5 133:15 134:6,21 135:3,8 136:1 137:6 138:17 138:17 PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (314) 421-0099 Page 154 thinking 50.5 third 1:1 66:17 thoroughly 101.18 thought 8:10 10:21 24:7 40:14 54:16 81:10 thousands 32:24 33:2 33:20 35:8 three 9:11 18:24 22:1 25:1 66:11,12 69:21 98:23 99:3,4,9,10,12 101:2 102:20 thrown 34:8 133:15 tile 38:3,3 time 1:19 10:21 14:24 15:10 18:5,9 19:5,23 20:3,5 21:4 22:17 24:17,20 25:9 28:18 29:17 30:4 32:10 33:21 34:23 40:10 40:12,16,19 42:13 62:14 65:15 69:5 73:6 76:13,15 78:1 82:2,17 83:8 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