Document vbmdzZyen8Rp7XexDR2YOvJE

0001 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 CASE NUMBER: CV-P-440-E 6 WALTER OWENS, et al., 7 Plaintiffs, 8 vs. 9 MONSANTO COMPANY, 10 Defendant. 11 12 STIPULATION 13 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED 14 by and between the parties through their 15 respective counsel, that the deposition 16 of ALAN GRICE McCARTY may be taken before 17 MICKEY TURNER, Commissioner, at the 18 offices of Fite & Miller at 4th Floor 19 SouthTrust Bank Building, Anniston, 20 Alabama, on the 15th day of October, 21 1999. 22 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 23 AGREED that the signature to and the 0002 1 reading of the deposition by the witness 2 is waived, the deposition to have the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036243 3 same force and effect as if full 4 compliance had been had with all laws and 5 rules of Court relating to the taking of 6 depositions. 7 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 8 AGREED that it shall not be necessary for 9 any objections to be made by counsel to 10 any questions except as to form or 11 leading questions, and that counsel for 12 the parties may make objections and 13 assign grounds at the time of the trial, 14 or at the time said deposition is offered 15 in evidence, or prior thereto. 16 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 17 AGREED that the notice of filing of the 18 deposition by the Commissioner is waived. 19 20 21 22 23 0003 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NUMBER: 3 Mr. Wright 6 4 5 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS: OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036244 6 1- Picture 59 7 2- Picture 59 8 3 - Organizational Chart 122 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0004 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 CASE NUMBER: CV-P-440-E 6 WALTER OWENS, et al., 7 Plaintiffs, 8 vs. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036245 9 MONSANTO COMPANY, 10 Defendant. 11 BEFORE: 12 MICKEY TURNER, Commissioner 13 APPEARANCES: 14 MITHOFF & JACKS, L.L.P., by 15 Mr. James L. Wright and Ms. Laura Ruth, 16 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 1010, Austin, 17 Texas 78701, appearing on behalf of the 18 Plaintiffs. 19 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & 20 MOORE, by Mr. Michael E. Kelly, 300 North 21 Greene Street, Suite 1400, Greensboro, 22 North Carolina 27401, appearing on behalf 23 of the Defendant. 0005 1 I, MICKEY TURNER, a Court 2 Reporter of Birmingham, Alabama, acting 3 as Commissioner, certify that on this 4 date, as provided by the Federal Rules of 5 Civil Procedure and the foregoing 6 stipulation of counsel, there came before 7 me at the offices of Fite & Miller, 4th 8 Floor SouthTrust Bank Building, 9 Anniston, Alabama, beginning at 8:30 10 a.m., ALAN GRICE McCARTY, witness in the 11 above cause, for oral examination, OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036246 12 whereupon the following proceedings were 13 had: 14 15 ALAN GRICE McCARTY, 16 being first duly sworn, was examined and 17 testified as follows: 18 19 COURT REPORTER: Usual 20 stipulations? 21 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. 22 MR. KELLY: Yes. 23 MR. WRIGHT: Mr. McCarty, how 0006 1 are you? 2 THE WITNESS: Fine. 3 MR. KELLY: With those usual 4 stipulations would be all the things we 5 said yesterday about Burr and Forman? 6 MR. WRIGHT: The usual 7 speech. 8 9 EXAMINATION BY MR. WRIGHT: 10 Q. Thank you for coming in this 11 morning. Have you ever given a 12 deposition before? 13 A. I never have. 14 Q. You didn't get to make the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036247 15 trip to Delaware with all of the rest of 16 those guys? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Let me give you the long 19 version, then. A deposition, and I'm 20 sure you have already been told this, but 21 because I didn't tell it to you, I don't 22 know what you have been told and I want 23 to make sure that you understand all of 0007 1 the ground rules for today. 2 A deposition is a means of 3 gathering and preserving testimony 4 outside of court. And the oath you have 5 taken is the same oath that you would 6 take in front of a judge and a jury and 7 it has the same force and effect. In 8 other words, penalties of perjury, and so 9 forth, all attach just like if you were 10 in front of a judge and a jury in a 11 courtroom. 12 If s possible that at the 13 time of trial your testimony could be 14 read to the judge and jury and they would 15 be able to consider it just as if you are 16 on the witness stand there. So, even 17 though this is an informal setting and we OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036248 18 are going to try to do things as 19 cooperatively and so forth as we can, it 20 is an important proceeding, and so for 21 that reason, I need you to do a couple of 22 things for me. 23 One is, if you don't 0008 1 understand the question I'm asking, stop 2 me and tell me, "Larry, I just don't 3 understand what you mean. Could you ask 4 it a different way?" And I will be glad 5 to do that. The second thing is, if you 6 could answer out loud, "yes" or "no," 7 because our court reporter is writing 8 that down and because we don't have a 9 video camera, she's not going to write 10 down "witness nodded head" or "witness 11 shook head" or something, okay? 12 And then, of course, if you 13 want to take a break, we'll take a break 14 any time. This isn't an endurance 15 contest. So any time you want to take a 16 break or get a cup of coffee or whatever, 17 we'll take a break. And my estimate is 18 that we'll be through by lunchtime, so 19 it's not going to be an all day grueling 20 procedure. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036249 21 So having said all of that, 22 let me ask you my first question. Would 23 you tell me a little bit about your 0009 1 background, for example, where did you 2 grow up, and your educational background 3 before you started with Monsanto? 4 A. I grew up in Wichita Falls, 5 Texas. I graduated from high school 6 there. 7 Q. What year was that? 8 A. 1949. I went from there to 9 Texas A & M College. I graduated from 10 there in 1953. My major was chemical 11 engineering. I worked briefly for Alcoa 12 in Rockdale, Texas, and then I entered 13 active military duty and I served 14 twenty-one months, from August of 1953 15 until May of 1955. I served in Korea and 16 Japan during that time. 17 Q. What branch of the service 18 were you in? 19 A. I was in the Army, field 20 artillery. 21 Q. Then where did you go? 22 A. I returned home and I did not 23 resume my previous employment. I was OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036250 0010 1 interested in slightly different type of 2 work. So, in September of 1955,1 joined 3 Lion Oil Company. 4 Q. Lion? 5 A. Lion. Eldorado, Arkansas, 6 as a chemical engineer in their Luling, 7 Louisiana plant. I think about the same 8 time I joined Lion Oil Company, they 9 merged with Monsanto Company. I had no 10 idea I would be working for Monsanto 11 Company. 12 I remained at that plant for 13 roughly a year and a half. I had a GI 14 bill credit, so I returned to school. I 15 went to Austin, and my attempt was to do 16 graduate work in chemical engineering and 17 it didn't work out for me. I switched to 18 business. 19 Q. At UT Austin? 20 A. Yes. And I stayed in that 21 program for about another year and then I 22 returned to work at the same place that I 23 left, in Luling, Louisiana, with Monsanto 0011 1 at that time. 2 Q. Okay. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036251 3 A. I worked there from roughly 4 November of 1958 until March of 1961, at 5 which time I was transferred to 6 Anniston. I worked for Monsanto here in 7 Anniston up until the time I took an 8 early retirement in 1986. 9 Q. Let me stop you there, 10 because we are going to go over that in 11 some detail. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. I want to ask you about, in 14 Luling, what was your job in Luling? 15 A. I had several jobs, mostly of 16 early career training variety. I was -- 17 Q. As a chemical engineer 18 primarily? 19 A. Primarily. I was a project 20 engineer. I was a shift foreman, or 21 supervisor in the laboratory about six 22 months. I was a -- we didn't actually 23 have a Technical Service Department at 0012 1 that time, but I was essentially 2 technical service engineer for a while. 3 Then I became an area maintenance 4 engineer. That was what I was doing at 5 the time I was transferred. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036252 6 Q. What did they primarily make 7 in Luling? 8 A. In Luling at that time, they 9 primarily made ammonia and nitric acid 10 and ammonium nitrate. And before I left, 11 they were making adipic acid. 12 Q. All right. Let's start now 13 with Monsanto Anniston. What was your 14 first job when you came here? 15 A. It was called a technical 16 supervisor. It was in the Parathion 17 operation. 18 Q. What were the j obs of a 19 technical supervisor? What were your 20 specific duties? 21 A. I did not actually have 22 supervisory responsibilities over people 23 as such, but primarily they were involved 0013 1 in optimizing production processes and 2 implementing projects, minor start-ups. 3 Q. How long had the Parathion 4 plant been in operation at that time? 5 A. When I arrived, it had been 6 in operation, actually operating -- let 7 me see, about three and a half years 8 from the time it started up until I OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036253 9 arrived. 10 Q. How long did you stay in that 11 job? 12 A. I stayed in that job until, I 13 think, about March of 1963. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. At that time, I was 16 transferred into the plant's Technical 17 Service Department as a technical service 18 engineer. 19 Q. What was the Technical 20 Service Department? 21 A. At that time it was headed by 22 the plant superintendent. It was a group 23 of process and project engineers who did 0014 1 plant work. 2 Q. What kind of projects would 3 y'all do? For example, if they say, "We 4 want to add another process," would it be 5 your job to figure out how to do the 6 process that they wanted to do? 7 A. Yes, it would be. 8 Q. What other kind of things? 9 A. Normally, these would be 10 minor-type projects. Major projects 11 would be handled by central engineering OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036254 12 type organizations, or at that time, 13 division engineering organizations. 14 Q. Were they in St. Louis? 15 A. Yes. We would do what we 16 called plant level projects. We would 17 conduct process studies and we would 18 develop project background. Then we 19 would, for the most part, implement the 20 project with the assistance of other 21 plant groups. 22 Q. How long did you stay in that 23 position? 0015 1 A. Let me think. Let me back up 2 a little bit. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. I think I actuallyentered 5 that function in, sometime in the fall of 6 1962 instead of '63. And I left that 7 position in, I think, December of 1963. 8 Q. So just a little over a year? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Then I became manufacturing 12 supervisor or production supervisor of 13 Parathion operation. That was one 14 responsibility. The other one was to act OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036255 15 as liaison, or we called it manufacturing 16 representative, for an oncoming expansion 17 of the Parathion facility. 18 Q. Let's split that job down 19 into two pieces. The first part of the 20 job, did you say production supervisor 21 over the Parathion Department? 22 A. Yes. Yes. 23 Q. What exactly were the things 0016 1 that the production supervisor of the 2 Parathion Department was supposed to do? 3 A. Primarily to supervise the 4 overall operation of that department. At 5 that time it consisted of a production 6 foreman and probably in the neighborhood 7 of twenty hourly personnel and you were 8 responsible for safety. You were 9 responsible for meeting a production 10 schedule. You were responsible for the 11 personnel, through deployment, of course, 12 supervision of the personnel. You were 13 responsible for relationships with other 14 plant departments, such as maintenance 15 and laboratory. Your essential 16 responsibility was to make sure that you 17 made the proper production in a safe OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036256 18 manner. 19 Q. Who did you report to? 20 A. I reported at that time to a 21 gentleman named Arthur Leisy. He was the 22 manufacturing superintendent over that 23 area. 0017 1 Q. Were you going to add 2 something? 3 A. I was going to add something, 4 maybe you might already be aware of it, 5 but the plant at that time was operated 6 by a different division from what the 7 Parathion Department was in. 8 Q. I would like for you to 9 explain that. I have seen that. Were 10 y'all the Phosphate Division at that 11 time? 12 A. No, we were the Agricultural 13 Division at that time. 14 Q. And then you turned into the 15 phosphate? 16 A. No, phosphate preceded 17 agricultural by quite a bit. 18 Q. So phosphate was the real old 19 days? 20 A. The real old days. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036257 21 Q. And then agricultural? 22 A. Yes. At this particular 23 time, the plant was operated by the 0018 1 Organic Chemical Division and the 2 agricultural facilities, of which the 3 Parathion was at, was considered as a 4 guest operation. So Mr. Leisy was the 5 guest superintendent. 6 Q. That helps me a whole lot 7 make sense out of some of the things that 8 I have seen in the documents. 9 A. I was actually a member of 10 the Agricultural Division. At the time I 11 went into the Technical Services 12 Department, that was a plant-owned 13 operation, so I was transferred into the 14 Organic Division. When I came back as 15 supervisor, I was moved back into the 16 Agricultural Drvision. 17 Q. Let me write that down. So 18 during this period of time, the Aroclors 19 would have been in the Organic Division? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Now, the Aroclors were in the 22 Phosphate Division when the Anniston 23 plant was -- OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036258 0019 1 A. That was quite early. The 2 Anniston plant became the Organic 3 Division in the early fifties, possibly 4 around 1954. All of the phosphate-type 5 operations had been moved to other 6 locations and no more existed in 7 Anniston. 8 Q. I have always been kind of 9 puzzled, and you may not have an answer, 10 as to why the Aroclors, which are 11 chlorinated biphenyls, were in the 12 Phosphate Division. 13 A. The plant was not always 14 Monsanto. 15 Q. Right. 16 A. Prior to that, it was Swann 17 Chemical Company and prior to that other 18 names. But the Swann Chemical Company 19 had many different products, organic and 20 inorganic type products, and they 21 implemented the biphenyl chlorination 22 operation in the late 1920s and this was 23 acquired by Monsanto about '34, '35, 0020 1 somewhere in there. At that time, the 2 plant was mainly in phosphate-type OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036259 3 chemicals, even though they made the 4 Aroclor products in other locations. 5 Q. They just ranked the whole 6 plant as phosphate, put the whole plant 7 in the phosphate category? 8 A. Yes, uh-huh. Yes. 9 Q. Okay, that explains it. Now, 10 going back to where we were. The second 11 part of your job during those years was 12 as the plant liaison for the expansion of 13 the Parathion facilities? 14 A. Yes, right. 15 Q. What were your specific 16 duties as the liaison? 17 A. As I said, you were 18 considered a representative of the 19 Manufacturing Department, and you related 20 to the search and engineering people who 21 were in St. Louis. And you were the 22 local contact for them in terms of what 23 the plant desired, what kind of 0021 1 facilities that the plant preferred and 2 you were really charged with more or less 3 implementing the major projects from the 4 plant standpoint. 5 This included assisting with OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036260 6 design, many many visits between 7 engineering and the plant, many safety 8 reviews. Following that, of course, 9 acquiring and training personnel for 10 start-ups, starting up the operation, 11 making sure it started up safely and 12 operated to meet criteria. 13 Q. Were you the first person in 14 that position? 15 A. In16 Q. I guess what I'm asking is: 17 Were you the first person to act as the 18 liaison between the plant and the St. 19 Louis folks regarding the expansion? 20 A. Regarding that particular 21 expansion, yes. There have been others 22 before that as the plant was built here. 23 Q. All right. What stage was 0022 1 the expansion process in when you stepped 2 in as liaison? 3 A. It had just begun. 4 Q. So they made the decision, 5 but they really hadn't gone too far down 6 the road -- 7 A. That's right. 8 Q. -- in terms of figuring out OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036261 9 what they were going to do? 10 A. Hadn't gone anywhere. 11 Q. I assume then that you were 12 involved in every major decision about 13 how the facility was going to be - 14 A. I would have had an input. I 15 didn't necessarily make the decisions. 16 Q. Right. Okay. Was the 17 purpose of the expansion only to increase 18 production or were they adding additional 19 products? 20 A. There were no new or 21 additional products in the Parathion 22 facility as such. The purpose was to 23 increase production. Along with this, 0023 1 there was the addition of the 2 paranitrophenol plant, or PNP plant, 3 which was an intermediate product to 4 making Parathion. I did not have liaison 5 responsibilities over that operation. 6 Q. Before that time, did y'all 7 buy the PNP and have it shipped in? 8 A. It was produced by Monsanto 9 in St. Louis and shipped into the 10 Anniston facility. 11 Q. When did your job change? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036262 12 When did that job change? 13 A. That job lasted for about, 14 approximately two years. I would say it 15 changed in early '66. 16 Q. Where did you go then? 17 A. I stayed in the agricultural 18 products. Really, I just relinquished 19 the supervisory responsibilities. Another 20 supervisor was brought in because 21 expansions were continuing. 22 Q. So you became the expansion 23 guy at the Anniston plant. 0024 1 A. I became the manufacturing 2 representative for ag products only, 3 because there were other expansions going 4 on in the organic at the same time, a 5 very active period, but I was involved in 6 continuing expansions of the Parathion 7 operation. And, also, I was the 8 representative for a new plant that 9 produced phosphorus pentasulfide or 10 P2 S5, as you have probably seen. 11 Q. There in Anniston? 12 A. In Anniston, yes. 13 Q. What was the P2 S5 used for? 14 A. That was a raw material for OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036263 15 the production of the Parathion 16 products. That, too, had been acquired 17 from the St. Louis area. 18 Q. So in the old days, they 19 would ship in the P2 S5 and the PNP? 20 A. Uh-huh (indicating 21 affirmatively). 22 Q. And y'all would use those in 23 the Parathion process in Anniston? 0025 1 A. Yes. Yes. 2 Q. And, so, as you went along, 3 you added internal facilities to produce 4 those two raw materials? 5 A. Yes, sir. What occurred, as 6 the Parathion product grew, it outgrew 7 the capability to produce these materials 8 in other Monsanto plants and it made 9 logical sense to build the facilities in 10 Anniston and just transfer it across the 11 street. 12 Q. Did Monsanto make Parathion 13 anywhere else? 14 A. They made Parathion initially 15 in West Virginia. 16 Q. At the nitro plant? 17 A. At the nitro plant. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036264 18 Q. Did they continue to make it 19 in nitro? 20 A. No. 21 Q. So they shut nitro down and 22 Anniston became the only -- 23 A. The only plant. 0026 i Q. Just out of curiosity, did 2 any other companies make Parathion? 3 A. Oh, yes, many companies made 4 it. 5 Q. Who else? 6 A. Stauffer Chemical Company 7 made Parathion. 8 Q. Can you spell that name? 9 A. S-T-A-U-F-F-E-R. 10 Q. Where were they located? 11 A. They made it in Mt. Pleasant, 12 Tennessee. American Pot Ash Corporation 13 at that time made Parathion. I'm not 14 sure exactly where their facility was. 15 There were possibly two or three other 16 companies that made the product. I can't 17 remember their names at this time. 18 Monsanto, I think, had the 19 largest facility and kept expanding. 20 Stauffer had a very large facility, OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036265 21 though, in Tennessee. 22 Q. Was Parathion the only 23 insecticide that Monsanto made in 0027 1 Anniston? 2 A. To my knowledge, that was the 3 only insecticide that was manufactured 4 commercially in Anniston. Of course, 5 there are two types of Parathion, ethyl 6 and methyl. 7 Q. Explain the distinction 8 between them, because that's something 9 I've seen in the documents, but I don't 10 understand what the difference is between 11 them. 12 A. Okay. They just start with a 13 different raw material, in terms of an 14 alcohol. Methyl Parathion begins with 15 methyl alcohol and Ethyl Parathion begins 16 with ethyl alcohol. They had slightly 17 different applications in farming. 18 Q. What were the differences in 19 the applications? 20 A. At that time, Methyl 21 Parathion seemed to be primarily used as 22 an insecticide in cotton and quite a few 23 other products. And Ethyl Parathion was OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036266 0028 1 used in fruits, vegetables, wheat, 2 possibly com. As I remember, those were 3 the primary differences in the usage of 4 the two products. 5 Q. Did y'all make any 6 rodenticides there? 7 A. They made some early on in 8 the forties, and maybe early fifties. 9 Q. I have seen reference to a 10 material and I can't remember the exact 11 name of it. I think it's called Compound 12 Q10, or something like that? 13 A. There was a Compound 1080. 14 Q. Compound 1080, that's what 15 I'm thinking of. 16 A. That was made there. I think 17 Monsanto chose to leave that business and 18 sold the equipment. That was long before 19 I arrived there. I had heard about it. 20 Q. What's your best estimate of 21 when they stopped making the Compound 22 1080? 23 A. I would say sometime in the 0029 1 mid-fifties, but that would be just a 2 guess. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036267 3 Q. We are going to keep tracing 4 your career here in a minute, but this 5 brings to mind a couple of questions that 6 I wanted to ask. Who were some of the 7 old timers there when you got there? And 8 by that, I mean people that had been 9 there for several years before you got 10 there. 11 MR. KELLY: You mean a 12 particular department? 13 Q. I am talking about in the 14 Agricultural Products Division there in 15 Anniston. 16 A. Okay. Let me explain one 17 thing. The Agricultural Products 18 Division began in 1960, so everything at 19 the plant prior to that time was in the 20 Organic Division. 21 Q. Let me rephrase the question 22 then. And I appreciate that. My 23 question was not a good way to ask what I 0030 1 wanted to ask. What I mean is, in the 2 organophosphate operation, who had been 3 there for a while when you got there? 4 And the reason I am asking this is I 5 would like to know -- you can take this OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036268 6 back to '61. And I would like to see who 7 I can talk to that would take us back to 8 earlier times than that. 9 A. Okay. Most of the people who 10 were in that operation at that time who 11 had had some history with Monsanto are no 12 longer living. 13 Q. Right. Is there anybody 14 still alive that had been there back in 15 the forties and fifties? 16 A. With direct experience in 17 that area, organophosphate area? 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. Frankly, I can't think of 20 anyone at this time. There may be. 21 Q. Okay. Going back now to your 22 career. So you remained as the 23 manufacturing liaison for how long? 0031 1 A. I relinquished that activity 2 in the spring of 1967 with the startup of 3 the phosphorus pentasulfide operation. 4 And at that time, I went back to a role 5 similar to the technical supervisor 6 role. But at this time, it involved what 7 we called debottlenecking and 8 optimization of the expansions that had OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036269 9 proceeded, changes and some additions to 10 make some areas of these expansion 11 products perform as they should. 12 It went into -- we worked 13 very closely with the plant Technical 14 Services Department, which was in the 15 organic group, but which had process 16 engineers assigned to work in the 17 Parathion area. And I was -- a lot of my 18 activity was liaison between that 19 department and the facility itself. 20 Q. Let me see if I've got this 21 right. You were head of technical 22 services for the Parathion 23 organophosphate-type activities? 0032 1 A. I wasn't necessarily head of 2 anything. I was just kind of by myself 3 in that activity. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. I still worked for Mr. Leisy, 6 who was a superintendent in the area. I 7 worked very closely with the plant 8 Technical Service Department to implement 9 process improvement work and process 10 optimization work. 11 Q. That's going to explain a lot OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036270 12 of what we are going to talk about here 13 in a little bit. Your name ended up 14 being cc'd on a lot of documents that I 15 think were primarily directed to the 16 plant technical services? 17 A. Probably were. I was 18 essentially the Ag company representative 19 to the plant technical services. 20 Q. And how long did you stay in 21 that position? 22 A. I stayed in that position 23 until the fall of 1968. 0033 1 Q. Then where did you go? 2 A. I went into the plant 3 technical services group, into the 4 Organic Division at that time as an 5 engineering supervisor. I reported to 6 the technical services superintendent, 7 and I had a group of process engineers 8 working for me then. 9 Q. How long did you stay in that 10 position? 11 A. I stayed in that position 12 with that title until February of 1972. 13 But the last year in that position, the 14 plant had suffered quite a reduction in OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036271 15 people. This was getting to be close to 16 the time where they were looking at the 17 PCB-type products and were beginning to 18 make plans to probably exit that business 19 and there were other economy-directed 20 situations that caused a cutback. So the 21 group that I was supervising 22 disappeared. I retained the title, but I 23 worked -- 0034 1 Q. You supervised yourself? 2 A. Yeah, I did. And we really 3 didn't know what would be happening. We 4 lost probably two-thirds of our 5 engineering groups. And the last year 6 that I was in that position, I still did 7 work, but I did it mostly myself instead 8 of supervising through people. And that 9 lasted until February of 1972. 10 Q. Then where did you go? 11 A. I went in the accounting 12 department. 13 Q. Accounting? 14 A. I was appointed plant 15 accountant. 16 Q. You were appointed plant 17 accountant? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036272 18 A. Yes, I was. 19 MR. KELLY: It was a good 20 Texas education. 21 MR. WRIGHT: I guess so. 22 A. Let me point out that during 23 the time I was doing other things, I did 0035 1 complete college work that I started 2 earlier. I received a degree in 3 economics from UAB in Birmingham. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And I had had some exposure 6 to accounting courses, not a whole lot, 7 not enough to be a plant accountant. I 8 also had the purchasing department. 9 Q. All right. We are going to 10 speed through the accounting part of your 11 career. 12 A. It was a very interesting 13 part. More challenging than many. 14 Q. I'll bet. How long were you 15 in that area? 16 A. Three years. 17 Q. That takes us to '75? 18 A. March of'75. 19 Q. Then where did you go? 20 A. I went back into the plant. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036273 21 It was time to do another major 22 expansion. And it was felt that -- as 23 far as I know, it was felt that I could 0036 1 contribute more there. 2 Q. All right. What was your 3 specific job then? 4 A. It again was manufacturing 5 representative-type function, except 6 instead of doing it myself I did have a 7 group of engineers who were assigned to 8 the expansion. It was quite a major jump 9 for Monsanto at that time. 10 Q. What were they expanding to? 11 What were they adding, I guess is what 12 I'm asking? 13 A. The plant was adding about a 14 forty percent expansion to the Parathion 15 production. 16 Q. So expanding the Parathion 17 capability again? 18 A. Yes. That also involved 19 expanding the paranitrophenol capability, 20 involved expanding the phosphorus 21 pentasulfide capability. 22 Q. How long did that position 23 last? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036274 0037 1 A. That position lasted -- my 2 direct involvement in that position 3 lasted until probably, guessing, close to 4 September, 1977, maybe slightly earlier. 5 And then I was still involved with it, 6 but by this time the activities had moved 7 into the plant itself and there were 8 other people there who at that time were 9 directing the implementation of the 10 training and startup and this kind of 11 thing. 12 Mr. Walker, who I think you 13 talked to, was very much involved in 14 that. I stayed in the activity still 15 supervising some engineers, but we didn't 16 do direct expansion work. We looked at 17 side issues like making sure that spare 18 parts were on hand for all of the new 19 equipment and these type of activities. 20 And that lasted until March of 1978. 21 Q. Then where did you go? 22 A. I became a production 23 supervisor over the overall facility at 0038 1 that time, which included Parathion and 2 P2 S5 and also paranitrophenol. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036275 3 Q. Let me stop you there and ask 4 you what other products was Monsanto 5 manufacturing at that time? No longer in 6 PCBs. I don't think y'all were still in 7 caustic chlorine, were you? 8 A. I think chlorine had already 9 disappeared, yes. 10 Q. So we have got Parathion and 11 then the two products that you used to 12 make Parathion? 13 A. Right. 14 Q. What else did Monsanto make 15 at that time? 16 A. They made the biphenyl and 17 the other polyphenyl products that come 18 along with that. They made a product 19 called HB40 that has many uses. If s a 20 precursor of some of the Therminol 21 products they make right now. That was 22 primarily what was made at that time. 23 Let me back up a little bit 0039 1 more. In the fall of 1971, the plant 2 became completely Agricultural Division. 3 We reported to a different group entirely 4 in St. Louis. 5 Q. Including the PCB operation? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036276 6 A. They were considered a guest 7 facility then. 8 Q. Okay. So the shoe changed to 9 the other foot? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. They stayed in the Organic 12 Division, but the plant became known as 13 an agricultural plant? 14 A. An agricultural plant. And I 15 believe that was the situation throughout 16 the first half of the seventies. 17 Q. We were talking about 18 products. Were there any other products 19 that you can recall? 20 A. None other than those that 21 have already been mentioned. 22 Q. Let's pick back up and finish 23 out your career history there. I think 0040 1 we left off in around '75. 2 A. Yeah. I was trying to back 3 up and reconsider some of the time frame 4 after it became an agricultural plant. 5 Some things happened in the Organics 6 Division and other divisions earlier in 7 those years, too. I think the Organic 8 Division was combined with the Inorganic OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036277 9 Division and made into what Monsanto 10 called an Industrial Chemical Company. 11 That's the other group that was in the 12 plant. It was no longer Organic 13 Division. 14 Q. It was Industrial Chemicals? 15 A. Industrial Chemical Company. 16 My experience as production supervisor 17 directly related to the OP operations 18 occurred from, say, March of 1978 until 19 probably September of 1980, at which time 20 I became another manufacturing 21 representative for a new product that was 22 being implemented into the RPOP. 23 Q. What product was that? 0041 1 A. We called it -- it was an 2 intermediate and it was an intermediate 3 that we used in our normal production, 4 but we made a refined variety which was 5 sold outside Monsanto. 6 Q. What was that? 7 A. It was called -- we called it 8 Ethyl Intermediate. That's probably what 9 you will see it referred to. 10 Q. In the documents? 11 A. In the documents. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036278 12 Q. What was it used for? 13 A. If s Diethylphosphoro14 chloridothioate, and it was sold to Dow 15 Chemical Company as an intermediate for 16 their two major pesticides, Dursban and 17 Lorsban. 18 Q. Did y'all make that before 19 1980? 20 A. Not in this refined variety. 21 We had made a partially refined variety 22 back in the sixties, which was sold to 23 Geigy down in South Alabama. It wasn't 0042 1 Ciba Geigy at that time, it was just 2 Geigy, and they used it as an 3 intermediate in diazenyl, which is still 4 used as an intermediate in diazenyl. 5 Q. Is Monsanto still making that 6 in Anniston? 7 A. No, they are not making any 8 of these products any more. 9 Q. So you were again liaison for 10 expansion in 1980? 11 A. Started in 1980. 12 Q. How long did that last? 13 A. We started up the operation 14 about April of 1981 and spent a few weeks OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036279 15 optimizing. And at that time I was -- 16 once I became a manufacturing 17 representative again for this product, I 18 went under the, I went in the -- I worked 19 for Jerry Brown, who you may have met, I 20 don't know, in his technical services 21 group. 22 Q. Right. Not yet, I haven't 23 met him yet. 0043 1 A. Actually, I reported through 2 that group, but my major work occurred 3 with the people and products in the OP 4 area. 5 Q. What was your job during the 6 '81 to '86 time? 7 A. Okay. I remained in the 8 technical services group and we continued 9 optimizing that particular process that I 10 am talking about, the refined 11 intermediate process. And we had some, 12 along with that process, we had some 13 other changes in how we handled plant 14 equipment, and so we continued optimizing 15 in that area. And that lasted until 16 through '81 and '82 into early 1983. 17 And then I was assigned to, OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036280 18 again, a new aspect of the process. And 19 this had to do with the recovering of 20 materials which formerly were disposed of 21 some way or another, processing these and 22 returning them to the process as raw 23 materials. 0044 1 Q. Which products were those? 2 A. Which products were those? 3 One of the by-products of the Parathion 4 operation is elemental sulfur. And this 5 particular project involved defining that 6 by-product sulfur and making it suitable 7 for reuse in the P2 S5 operation. So 8 this is one stream that previously was 9 disposed of by incineration and actually 10 by landfilling by this time, because we 11 had long ceased incinerating that 12 sulfur. At this point, it became 13 possible to just send it around the loop 14 and reuse it. 15 Q. What other things did you do 16 that with? 17 A. Prior to that in the 18 mid-seventies, one of the other 19 by-product streams was hydrogen sulfide 20 gas. And we put it in what's known as a OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036281 21 Klas unit, sulfur recovery unit, and 22 converted that back to sulfur and reused 23 that phosphorus pentasulfide. 0045 1 Q. When did y'all install the 2 Klas units? 3 A. I think the Klas unit 4 probably was installed in the 1975-1977 5 period. 6 Q. What other things did you 7 start to reuse instead of dispose of? 8 A. These were the things that 9 were reused. Other materials that were 10 disposed of, as we continually optimized, 11 we were able to gain greater recovery in 12 the operation, because we were able to 13 reuse a larger amount of those products. 14 But these were the two major materials 15 that were actually treated in separate 16 plants and reused. 17 Q. '83 to'86, what were your 18 jobs? 19 A. Okay. The sulfur recovery 20 unit, as we called it, started up in late 21 '83. We continued optimizing that up 22 until mid-'84. And that point, I worked 23 for an engineering supervisor. I was OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036282 0046 1 called an engineering specialist by that 2 time. And I worked for an engineering 3 supervisor, who reported through the 4 Technical Service Department. And I 5 worked on process improvement, some major 6 changes in some of the operations that 7 existed and optimization at other 8 operations. And this continued through 9 '84 and most of'85. There were several 10 different projects and types of 11 optimizations that occurred in that time. 12 Q. All focusing on this same 13 family of products? 14 A. All focusing on the same 15 family of products. The only time I 16 focused on any other family of products 17 was during the period of 1969 and '70 and 18 '71 when my engineering group, although 19 it was primarily oriented toward the 20 organophosphate products, we did have 21 responsibility for a muriatic acid 22 facility, which existed over in the other 23 side of the plant, the organic side of 0047 1 the plant. We had responsibility for 2 process improvement in that area. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036283 3 Q. Why was that? Why were y'all 4 given that responsibility? 5 A. I think we were just to kind 6 of divide up the responsibilities overall 7 between the person who had most of the ag 8 products and the other engineering 9 supervisor who had most of the organic 10 products. This was kind of an adjunct to 11 the organic products area. 12 Q. I guess I am just wondering 13 why they put y'all in or had you involved 14 with the muriatic acid since you didn't 15 use that in any of your processes, did 16 you? 17 A. No, used it in no process. 18 One of the by-products of the Parathion 19 operation is muriatic acid or HCL gas. 20 But this was simply neutralized and 21 treated in the waste treatment plant, in 22 that area. The acid that was made in the 23 organic portion of the plant was sold, 0048 1 was collected and sold. 2 Q. And that was made with HCL 3 off-gas from the Aroclor operation? 4 A. From chlorinations, yes. At 5 that time, Monsanto did not feel that OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036284 6 they should be selling acid from 7 pesticide operations. Everybody else 8 did, but Monsanto did not sell that type 9 of acid. 10 Q. Why not? 11 A. I'm not sure why not. It was 12 perfectly good, you know, because it 13 didn't come--it came from the 14 intermediate operation, not from the 15 operation where the pesticide was 16 actually produced. And I'm not sure why 17 it was not desired to collect and sell 18 that acid. Other manufacturers did sell 19 it. 20 Q. But they did sell the acid 21 that was a by-product of the Aroclor 22 operation? 23 A. Yes, they did. 0049 1 Q. I am sorry, did you say you 2 used muriatic acid in the -- 3 A. No, it was a by-product in 4 both areas. 5 Q. So they would sell the 6 Aroclor-derived muriatic acid, but not 7 sell the Parathion-derived muriatic acid? 8 MR. KELLY: Object to the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036285 9 form. 10 A. Yes. And, again, I am not 11 too sure of all of the reasons, whether 12 they just didn't think it was worthwhile 13 to do that. Muriatic acid then, and I 14 think now, is kind of a surplus in the 15 market. And I don't think there was very 16 much money made on it at all. But, 17 traditionally, I think as long as the 18 Aroclor operation had been there, I think 19 they made and sold muriatic acid. Iam 20 not too sure about the early years, but I 21 think that was the case. 22 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't we 23 take a quick break. We have been going 0050 1 about an hour. 2 3 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 4 taken.) 5 6 Q. (BY MR. WRIGHT:) And you 7 have been retired since 1986? 8 A. Actually, I accepted 9 retirement in November of 1985 and it was 10 delayed for nine months. During that 11 time, they were trying to maybe sell the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036286 12 facility to another company and a couple 13 of us were asked to stay if we would, for 14 another nine months. 15 MR. KELLY: Speak up a little 16 bit if you can, Alan. 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. 18 Q. Just out of curiosity, what 19 do they make there now? 20 A. They make, they call it 21 polyphenyls, which is biphenyl plus 22 terphenyl, higher phenols. And they make 23 hydrogenated terphenyls. That is 0051 1 hydrogen added to terphenyl and that 2 makes one of the Therminol materials. 3 They make Paranitrophenol. They make 4 some other Therminols. 5 Q. What are those used for, 6 primarily? 7 A. They are high temperature 8 heat transfer fluids. 9 Q. And that's what the biphenyl 10 was used for all the way along? 11 A. The Therminols at the time of 12 the Aroclors were chlorinated biphenyls. 13 They were a high temperature heat 14 transfer material. Also dielectrics to OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036287 15 put in transformers and this kind of 16 thing. 17 Q. But j ust the straight 18 phenols, both biphenyls and polyphenyls, 19 they have been primarily used for these 20 heat exchange fluids? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And hydraulic fluid, I 23 assume, also? 0052 1 A. I think some hydraulic fluid, 2 yes. 3 Q. All right. Any other current 4 products that you are aware of? 5 A. Not really. They do bring in 6 some materials that they blend into 7 different types of Therminols. They have 8 a product line of six or eight materials 9 with Therminols. 10 Q. When did they stop the 11 Parathion production. 12 A. Parathion was produced up 13 until about mid-year 1986. 14 Q. You live in the Anniston 15 area, still? 16 A. Yes, Ido. 17 Q. All right. So I want to now OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036288 18 go back to the late sixties. How was the 19 plant Technical Services Department 20 organized in the late sixties? 21 A. In the late sixties, there 22 was a technical superintendent who 23 reported to the plant manager. And he 0053 1 had a relationship, also, with a manager 2 in the division manufacturing office who 3 was a technical production manager. And 4 he looked after several plants. He 5 helped look after the technical aspects 6 of several plants. 7 The technical superintendent 8 at the plant, he was responsible for the 9 laboratory, for a project engineering 10 group and for one or more process 11 engineering groups. And -- 12 Q. What's the difference between 13 the product engineering and the process 14 engineering? 15 A. I am sorry project 16 engineering. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Process engineers primarily 19 study and examine processes and determine 20 how to make them more efficient, how to OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036289 21 make them more environmentally suitable. 22 And a project engineering usually 23 implements any projects that come out of 0054 1 this to actually effect what was come up 2 with. And -- 3 Q. Was there -- go ahead and 4 finish. 5 A. So, really, he had all of 6 these groups. And I think at the time, 7 he began to have environmental 8 responsibilities, but this may have come 9 along in the early seventies, more so 10 than late sixties. 11 Q. That's what I was going to 12 ask you. In the late sixties, was there 13 somebody who had specific responsibility 14 for environmental matters? 15 A. There were several people, 16 beginning in the mid-fifties, who began 17 to have environmental responsibilities. 18 Q. Who were those people? 19 A. One person, the first one I 20 think we had was a person named Gene 21 Coley. 22 Q. C-O-L-E-Y? 23 A. C-O-L-E-Y. He's no longer OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036290 0055 1 living. 2 Q. Was he in Anniston or in St. 3 Louis? 4 A. He was in Anniston. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Some individuals that 7 followed him, one was Gene Wright, and he 8 has not been with the company for a long 9 time. 10 Q. Is he still alive? 11 A. Yes, I think he lives in 12 Chattanooga. He was the Chattanooga city 13 environmental person. 14 Q. When was his tenure? 15 A. I believe his tenure was in 16 the -- during this period of late 17 sixties. It possibly ended in the early 18 seventies. 19 Q. What was his job, to the best 20 of your understanding? 21 A. At that time we would, I 22 believe we termed this person as a 23 pollution control engineer. And there 0056 1 were others, one or two others, I think, 2 that had that responsibility along during OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036291 3 that period. I can't remember the names 4 exactly. 5 Q. When we go through the 6 documents some of them may ring a bell. 7 A. Some of them may come out 8 there. But that was the case in the late 9 sixties period. 10 Q. Now, were they attached to 11 the Technical Services Department? 12 A. I believe they actually were 13 attached to the laboratory, which was 14 attached to the Technical Services 15 Department. But I'm not too certain 16 about that, either. I wasn't really 17 directly related so much with the 18 environmental. I think the earliest 19 environmental person, Gene Coley, might 20 have been actually attached to the ag 21 manufacturing group under Mr. Leisy at 22 that time. I would have to review that, 23 too, to be certain, because after that, 0057 1 he became associated with the technical 2 services group some way or another. 3 Q. Did you know Mr. Papageorge 4 when he was in Anniston? 5 A. Yes, he was the plant OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036292 6 manager. 7 Q. Did you have some 8 interactions with him during that time? 9 A. Only in the sense that he was 10 plant manager and I was a person in the 11 technical services area. And let's see. 12 I'm trying to think when he became plant 13 manager. The first years he was plant 14 manager, I was still with the 15 agricultural products group. 16 Q. At some point during his 17 tenure as plant manager is when you moved 18 over into the plant Technical Services 19 Department? 20 A. Yes, into the Organic 21 Division area, although we still had 22 responsibilities for the guest facility. 23 This was one of the services that the 0058 1 host plant provided. 2 Q. We talked generally about the 3 organization of the technical services. 4 I would like to get more specific about 5 that. And specifically, let's talk about 6 the '68, '69, '70 time frame. 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. Who was the head of technical OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036293 9 services? 10 A. The person I reported to was 11 named Joel Landwehr. 12 Q. What was his title? 13 A. He was superintendent of 14 technical services. 15 Q. Where did he office? 16 A. His office was in the office 17 building at that time. 18 MR. WRIGHT: Let's look at 19 our pictures. We might as well go ahead 20 and mark those. 21 MR. KELLY: These may not be 22 as good a copies as the ones you were 23 dealing with yesterday. 0059 1 THE WITNESS: This was a 2 office building at the time. His office 3 was in this building. 4 MR. WRIGHT: Hang on a 5 second. Let me mark them as 1 and 2. 6 Mike, can you find the photographs in the 7 book? And that way if we can't make 8 something out, we can refer to the real 9 photograph. 10 11 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibits OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036294 12 1-2 were marked for identification 13 and same are attached hereto.) 14 15 Q. Exhibit 1 is a larger scale 16 picture. Exhibit 2 is the smaller scale 17 that shows the greater area around the 18 plant. Looking at Exhibit Number 1, you 19 pointed to a building? 20 A. This was the main office 21 building at that time (indicating). 22 Q. I am going to circle that 23 with my red pen here, and label it "main 0060 1 office building." 2 Where was the lab located? 3 A. This was the lab building 4 behind it (indicating). 5 Q. The lab is the building -- 6 let's see. We have got to get our 7 directions again. This is south, I 8 believe (indicating). 9 A. South is this way 10 (indicating). You are looking east this 11 way. 12 Q. That's right. South. So it 13 is the building, the small building 14 directly to the south of the main office OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036295 15 building? 16 A. Yes. It's no longer there. 17 Q. That was the lab? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who was under Mr. Landwehr? 20 A. The project engineering 21 supervisor at the time I was there was 22 Bill Taffee, T-A-F-F-E-E. 23 Q. Let me write this down. 0061 1 Project supervising engineer? 2 A. Or project engineering 3 supervisor. 4 Q. Okay. Bill Taffee? 5 A. Taffee, T-A-F-F-E-E. 6 Q. All right. 7 A. And I was a process 8 engineering supervisor, one of two. 9 Q. Who else was? 10 A. An engineer named Vince 11 Haupt, H-A-U-P-T. And the chief 12 chemist; -- I will think of it later -- he 13 reported to Mr. Landwehr, too. 14 Q. Is that G.W. Miller? 15 A. At the time I was there, it 16 was the person following Mr. Miller. He 17 left and went with a different company a OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036296 18 couple of years later. 19 Q. We'll fill that blank in in a 20 minute. I'm pretty sure you will see his 21 names in these documents. Who else was 22 in the Technical Services Department? 23 A. These were the supervisory 0062 1 persons. The process engineers, I am not 2 sure I remember who all were the 3 engineers under these people. 4 Q. Then there were several 5 process engineers? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Who else? 8 A. A project engineer, drafting. 9 Q. Only one project engineer? 10 A. I can only remember one. 11 Q. Drafting? Were there lab 12 techs? 13 A. Lab techs were under the 14 chief chemist. 15 Q. How many lab technicians 16 would there be? 17 A. Well, I'm not sure how many 18 they had at that time. There may have 19 been other project engineers. I think 20 there were civil and electrical OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036297 21 engineers. 22 Q. And then assorted other 23 engineers, I will just put. 0063 1 A. Yes, process engineers. 2 Q. Okay. About how big, how 3 many people worked in the Technical 4 Services Department? 5 A. I am going to estimate about 6 twenty. 7 Q. Where did they office? 8 A. They officed in the same 9 building. 10 Q. The main office building? 11 A. Yeah, there was an area there 12 that was set aside for technical services 13 and the chief chemist's office in the 14 laboratory. 15 Q. Would you describe the 16 laboratory for people that have never 17 seen it and will never be able to see it 18 because if s gone now? Can you describe 19 it? 20 A. It was a fairly small 21 building, but it was adequate at the 22 time. It formerly had been a research 23 laboratory for the Phosphate Division. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036298 0064 1 So it was equipped as a lab. It had 2 divided into maybe as many as four rooms 3 larger than this room by about twice. 4 And in there, they had all the laboratory 5 equipment that it was common to have at 6 that time. 7 Q. Which would have been what 8 kind of equipment? What kind of 9 equipment do you remember them having? 10 A. Of course, they had -- this 11 preceded the days when such things as 12 chromatographs became common. They may 13 have had some early models. I had no 14 direct function with the lab. Other than 15 sinks and different types of labware here 16 and there, I couldn't tell you 17 specifically what equipment they had. 18 Q. So you didn't do any lab work 19 yourself? 20 A. No. 21 Q. What is the first you 22 remember about PCBs being a potential 23 problem? 0065 1 MR. KELLY: Object to the 2 form. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036299 3 THE WITNESS: Huh? 4 MR. KELLY: Go ahead. 5 MR. WRIGHT: They don't like 6 me calling PCBs a problem. 7 MR. KELLY: Rather vague and 8 ambiguous. 9 MR. WRIGHT: So for the rest 10 of the day every time I talk about the 11 PCB problem, they are going to object. 12 A. I suppose it was in the, I am 13 going to say 1970, plus or minus a year 14 or two. 15 Q. 1970? 16 A. '70, plus or minus a year. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Frankly, I was never that 19 directly involved with the PCB operation 20 or their marketing or production. I knew 21 people who were. I knew that they were 22 working in the area, but I was much aware 23 of the problems that existed in terms of 0066 1 pesticides. Even though we didn't make 2 them, I was aware of problems that 3 existed with DDT and those kinds of 4 things. I was never particularly aware 5 of problems that might have existed with OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036300 6 the PCBs until about that time frame and 7 then just from hearsay. 8 Q. Okay. That's what I am just 9--1 understand there were more people, I 10 mean, there were people that were much 11 more involved than you were. 12 A. Oh, yeah, in the plant. 13 Q. But what I am trying to find 14 out now, since you are here and they are 15 not, I am just trying to find out what 16 you remember. 17 A. That's about it. If I recall 18 PCBs as being a problem as such, it was 19 probably in that time. 20 Q. And that awareness came just 21 from people talking around-- 22 A. Indirectly talking, and 23 realizing that certain activities were 0067 1 happening and certain plans were being 2 made, certain pressures on the product 3 line. Nothing directly. I was very, 4 very deeply involved in activities in 5 other areas of the plant, and just 6 completely tied up, nearly, in the other 7 area. 8 Q. I am sorry. You were OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036301 9 completely tied up in the other area? 10 A. In the organophosphate area. 11 My involvement was almost completely in 12 that. Very intensely involved, too. 13 Q. Let's talk about that for a 14 minute. I have seen references in the 15 documents to some fish kill that was 16 attributed to Parathion. 17 A. In the early sixties time 18 frame? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Tell me what you remember 22 about that, because that would have been 23 your area, correct? 0068 1 A. That would have been -- 2 Q. I'm not saying in your area. 3 I'm saying that that related to 4 organophosphates, which is what you were 5 focused on at the time? 6 A. Yes, and I was aware of the 7 publicity. I was aware of both fish 8 kills and things like this. I was 9 involved with the operation of the waste 10 treatment facilities to treat the waste 11 from the Parathion operation. But what I OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036302 12 am trying to recall, I think that there 13 was some releases -- let me back up a 14 little bit on the waste treatment aspects 15 ofParathion. 16 Q. All right. 17 A. When the plant was first 18 built there and before I came, the waste 19 was treated in the City of Anniston waste 20 treatment plant, which is a conventional 21 municipal type treatment facility. And 22 these wastes treat very well in that type 23 of operation. 0069 1 Along with the first 2 expansion that occurred, and this was 3 also before I came, the Organic Division 4 installed their own waste treatment plant 5 for Parathion, which was again a 6 conventional municipal type treatment 7 plant parallel with the city. The waste 8 from the Parathion operation was treated 9 in the plant's treatment plant and then 10 flowed to the City of Anniston's 11 treatment plant. 12 In connection with the 13 problems that existed that may have 14 resulted in a fish kill, I think there OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036303 15 was some heavy flow from the plant's 16 treatment plant to the city treatment 17 plant, which maybe they couldn't handle 18 and possibly was bypassed, but this area 19 I'm somewhat uncertain about. 20 Q. Okay. How many fish kill 21 incidents do you remember in the sixties? 22 A. I think I am just aware of 23 the one. 0070 1 Q. Were you ever involved in 2 trying to figure out what happened to 3 cause that? 4 A. I was involved in, as I say, 5 operation of the waste treatment plant 6 and in optimizing operation of the waste 7 treatment plant. And other than having 8 somewhat heavy release at one time, and I 9 am not exactly sure that this was 10 associated with that particular fish 11 kill, but that's the only incident that I 12 can remember. 13 Q. Okay. The reason I am asking 14 you about that is I have seen some 15 indication in the documents that when 16 Monsanto was investigating or when 17 somebody was investigating that fish OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036304 18 kill, they found some PCBs as well. 19 A. I wasn't aware of that. And 20 there were no PCBs at all associated with 21 what was released or what went from the 22 plant waste treatment into the city's 23 sewer supply, their waste treatment 0071 1 plant. So if there were PCBs involved, 2 it would not have come from the OP 3 operation. 4 Q. Well, yeah, and I guess I am 5 making -- I am not saying what I am 6 intending to say. I am not implying that 7 the PCBs were released in the same way 8 the Parathion was released. What I am 9 referring to is, there is a particular 10 memo, I think it's in 1968 where -- well, 11 let me see if I can find it. Maybe I can 12 find it on our next break. 13 Let me show you a memo, 14 another memo from about this same time 15 frame. And it has got a bunch of names 16 on here. And I would like to go down 17 through the list and we can talk about 18 who they all are. Some of them we have 19 talked about this morning. 20 This is a memo dated July 23 OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036305 21 of '69 when -- why don't you take a 22 second to look at that and then we'll 23 talk about it in some detail. 0072 1 A. Okay. (Witness reading.) 2 I'm on there, aren't I? That's me. 3 Q. I take it by what you said 4 that you don't really remember getting 5 that memo? 6 A. Probably not. I was in 7 technical services at that time. I 8 worked for Mr. Landwehr, whose name is 9 also on here, but, again, other than the 10 muriatic acid operation, I had no 11 responsibilities in these areas. I was 12 copied in probably because I was in that 13 department. This was written by Gene 14 Wright, who you already know was at the 15 plant in Chattanooga. I notice they do 16 list the HCL Department as a six-pound 17 per day generator of this waste. 18 Q. Right. 19 A. What's the other department, 20 sewer? 21 Q. Why would they have copied 22 you, do you think? 23 A. Simply because I was a member OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036306 0073 1 of the group. Like Mr. Haupt, whose name 2 is on here, would have had the process 3 group that was directly associated with 4 Mr. Lahman. 5 Q. Iam sorry, directly 6 associated with what? 7 A. With the Aroclor production 8 facility. They were support for 9 Aroclor. I am surprised. I don't see 10 the chief chemist's name here I was 11 looking for. I guess G.W. Miller was 12 chief chemist at that time. 13 Q. He was still the chief 14 chemist? 15 A. Still the chief chemist. 16 Q. In July of'69? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Let's talk about the other 19 names here on the list. J.N. Carpenter, 20 what was his position? 21 A. He was a production 22 supervisor at the organophosphate plant. 23 Q. C.K. Eastman. 0074 1 A. He was maintenance 2 superintendent for the Anniston plant. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036307 3 Q. Carpenter was production 4 superintendent? 5 A. Supervisor. 6 Q. Supervisor. What was his 7 specific job? 8 A. His was one which I had 9 identified as my own from several years 10 before. His job was to supervise the 11 foremen and hourly personnel in 12 manufacturing the Parathion products. 13 Q. Carpenter was Parathion? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. He may have been P2 S5 also, 17 but I think at that time he was 18 Parathion. 19 MR. KELLY: Alan, where you 20 can, keep your voice up. 21 THE WITNESS: Okay. 22 Q. C.K. Eastman? 23 A. C.K. Eastman was the plant 0075 1 maintenance superintendent. 2 Q. What was his job? 3 A. He was responsible for 4 overall plant maintenance and also 5 maintenance engineering. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036308 6 MR. WRIGHT: Can we go off the 7 record a minute? 8 9 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 10 off the record.) 11 12 Q. Okay. We have talked about 13 Mr. Carpenter and Mr. Eastman. L.L. 14 Faulkner? 15 A. I believe at that time Mr. 16 Faulkner was supervisor of the chlorine 17 operation. 18 Q. The chlorine operation? 19 A. Uh-huh (indicating 20 affirmatively), which was probably in the 21 process of being discontinued by then. 22 Q. Did you ever work in the 23 chlorine operation? 0076 1 A. No, I never did. 2 Q. Did you ever help them or 3 anything? 4 A. I had responsibility later 5 on, once the chlorine operation was shut 6 down, of assisting with the 7 implementation of facilities to receive 8 chlorine tank cars and unload chlorine. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036309 9 Q. That was your only 10 involvement? 11 A. My only involvement. 12 Q. R.A. Haydel? 13 A. R.A. Haydel was a -- he was a 14 technical service engineer and his 15 responsibilities were primarily with 16 organophosphates. 17 Q. What were his specific 18 duties? 19 A. He would conduct process 20 studies and optimization studies and 21 implement small projects in the 22 organophosphates facility. 23 Q. I don't have that memo that I 0077 1 was referring to, so we won't be able to 2 talk about that. 3 Vince Haupt we have talked 4 about. L.C. Lahman? 5 A. L.C.Lahman was the 6 manufacturing superintendent for the 7 organophosphate facilities. 8 Q. What were his specific 9 duties? 10 A. Let me recheck my time frame 11 here just a second. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036310 12 MR. KELLY: Larry, as I 13 recall, this memo is July of 1969? 14 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. 15 A. At that time, Mr. Lahman 16 would have been production supervisor for 17 organophosphates. Mr. Carpenter would 18 have been production supervisor for 19 phosphorus pentasulfide. The guest 20 superintendent for agricultural products 21 at that time was Mr. Lloyd Boesch. I 22 don't know if his name is on there or 23 not. 0078 1 Q. How do you spell his name? 2 A. B-O-E-S-C-H. 3 Q. It's not on there. 4 A. He was probably in a 5 transition phase, because shortly after 6 this period, he was relocated to another 7 Monsanto plant and Mr. Lahman took his 8 job. Mr. Carpenter took Mr. Lahman'sjob 9 at that time. This occurred during a 10 transition when Mr. Boesch was 11 relocating. He had been there been for 12 approximately a year, not quite a year. 13 Q. Is he still alive? 14 A. As far as I know, he is. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036311 15 Q. Where did he move to? 16 A. At that time, he moved to the 17 Eldorado, Arkansas plant with the ag 18 company. And later he moved up to the 19 St. Louis area with the manufacturing 20 organizations, and I think he retired 21 several years ago, in the early nineties 22 sometime. 23 Q. Where was he the last time 0079 1 you knew about him? 2 A. The last time I was aware, he 3 was in the St. Louis area. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. He came to the Anniston plant 6 in late fall of 1968. I think he stayed 7 ten months. 8 Q. Who had his position before 9 him? 10 A. Mr. Leisy. 11 Q. Is Mr. Leisy still alive? 12 A. Yes, Mr. Leisy is still 13 alive. 14 Q. In the Anniston area? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Where is he? 17 A. He's either in north Florida OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036312 18 or western Georgia area. I'm not exactly 19 sure where he is. 20 Q. Do you know any towns that we 21 could look for him? 22 A. At the time I had a last 23 correspondence, he was in the Pensacola 0080 1 area, but not right at Pensacola. It was 2 more in the beach area. I can't remember 3 all of those towns. And then I heard 4 that he possibly lived in the Calloway 5 Gardens area. I'm not sure. 6 Q. Where is Calloway Gardens? 7 A. That's in central west 8 Georgia, west central Georgia. 9 MR. KELLY: Off the record a 10 second. 11 12 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 13 off the record.) 14 15 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. We can 16 go back on. 17 Q. Joe Landwehr we talked about. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. You, we talked about. G.W. 20 Miller, you think he was the chief OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036313 21 chemist at that time? 22 A. He was chief chemist at that 23 time, yes. 0081 1 Q. Papageorge, in July of'69, 2 what was his position? 3 A. He was plant manager. 4 Q. B.O. Severs? 5 A. Severson? 6 Q. Severson. 7 A. He was production supervisor 8 for the biphenyl and Aroclor products. 9 Q. So he was the production 10 supervisor over Aroclor at the time? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What were his specific jobs 13 as production supervisor? 14 A. His specific jobs were to 15 supervise, I think maybe more than one 16 foreman, a group of manufacturing 17 personnel, who made these products. And 18 his jobs would have been to meet 19 production schedules and meet cost 20 objectives and meet safety guidelines and 21 environmental guidelines. Essentially 22 his job was to make the product and see 23 that it shipped. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036314 0082 1 Q. Bill Taffee, we have talked 2 about. 3 A. Bill Taffee, yes. 4 Q. What was his specific job at 5 the time? 6 A. He was the project 7 engineering supervisor in technical 8 services. 9 Q. And then H.L. Williams? 10 A. He was the production 11 superintendent for the organic products. 12 Q. What was his job as 13 production superintendent? 14 A. He was overseeing several 15 organic departments, several 16 supervisors. His job was to just oversee 17 the manufacturing from the organic 18 division standpoint, which was the host 19 plant. He reported to Mr. Papageorge. 20 Q. Now, there were some people 21 listed in the general offices. I want to 22 see if you know who they were or what 23 their jobs were. You may not know that, 0083 1 but you might. And so I have got to ask 2 you. M.E. Bitts? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036315 3 A. I don't know. I have heard 4 the name, but I don't know what his 5 responsibilities were. 6 Q. P.B. Hodges, and I think he 7 goes by Paul? 8 A. Paul Hodges had environmental 9 responsibilities for the Organic 10 Division. 11 Q. Do you remember what his 12 specific title was? 13 A. No, I do not. 14 Q. Did he have responsibilities 15 other than environmental 16 responsibilities? 17 A. I am not aware of others that 18 he might have had. 19 Q. D.B. Hosmer? 20 A. Hosmer? Mr. Hosmer was the, 21 at the time I believe was considered to 22 be a technical production manager. And 23 he would have overseen the technical 0084 1 aspects of production and several Organic 2 Division plants. He was a former plant 3 manager in Anniston in the mid-fifties. 4 Q. Is he still alive? 5 A. No. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036316 6 Q. W.A. Kuhn? K-U-H-N. 7 A. Mr. Kuhn was Mr. Hosmer's 8 counterpart in the Agricultural Division. 9 Q. Is he still alive? 10 A. I don't know. 11 Q. R.J. Stratmeyer? 12 A. I think at that time Mr. 13 Stratmeyer may have been director of 14 manufacturing in the Organic Division. 15 Q. Is he still alive? 16 A. I don't know. 17 Q. Then there's some other 18 people listed. I'm just going to see if 19 you know who they are. Scott Tucker. 20 You probably know who he was. 21 A. Again, I have heard the name, 22 but I don't remember exactly who he was. 23 Q. Okay. C.F. Buckley? 0085 1 A. I have heard that name and I 2 don't remember exactly who he was. 3 Q. H.M. Galloway in Nitro? 4 A. Mr. Galloway, at that time, I 5 think had the Technical Services 6 Department in Nitro, but I'm not certain 7 of that. 8 Q. C.G. Hoffman? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036317 9 A. I don't know him. 10 Q. J.L. Solan? 11 A. I believe at that time Mr. 12 Solari had technical services 13 responsibility in one of the St. Louis 14 operations. 15 Q. Did you -- I assume you went 16 to St. Louis from time to time? 17 A. I did go from time to time. 18 Q. Since you are the first 19 person we are deposing who was in a 20 managerial capacity and had interactions 21 with St. Louis, I am going to have to ask 22 you some questions. And I know you are 23 not the best person to answer them, but 0086 1 since you are the first, you get the 2 first shot at it. 3 I am a little bit unclear 4 about how things were organized in St. 5 Louis. And I am wondering if you could 6 kind of walk me through it. Was the 7 Krummrich plant -- well, let me just ask 8 you a broader question. St. Louis was 9 the headquarters? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. How were they organized up OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036318 12 there? And that's a broad question. You 13 may not feel like you are able to answer 14 it, but do the best you can. And I am 15 not going to hold you to any of this. 16 This is all just background right now. 17 A. Yeah, basically at that time 18 Monsanto had divisional organization, 19 and they had several divisions. I was 20 most familiar with the Agricultural 21 Division. I was somewhat familiar with 22 the Organic Division. 23 Q. What were some of the other 0087 1 divisions? 2 A. They had the Inorganic 3 Division. I think at this time they had 4 Plastics and Resins Division. They 5 probably had a Textiles Division. They 6 had a Hydrocarbons Division. That's what 7 I remember in general about their 8 organization. 9 Q. Now, as we break these down, 10 was there somebody who was in charge of 11 the Agricultural Division? 12 A. Yes, there was division 13 general manager. 14 Q. That's what they were called, OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036319 15 division general managers? 16 A. At that time. And each 17 division had that type of person in 18 charge. 19 Q. Okay. Was the general 20 structure of each division similar? 21 A. Similar, but probably not 22 exactly alike. 23 Q. Well, let's talk about kind 0088 1 of the generic division structure. You 2 say there's a general manager for the 3 division? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Then, how does it devolve 6 after that? 7 A. He would have had the sales 8 and marketing function. He would have 9 had a manufacturing function. He would 10 have had various staff, like controllers. 11 Q. Like what? 12 A. Controllers. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. He would have had legal 15 staff. He would have had an engineering 16 staff. But at that time, Monsanto had a 17 central engineering organization and in OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036320 18 the divisions they had, still had 19 division groups which would do 20 preliminary engineering work and then 21 shift it into the Central Engineering 22 Department for implementation. So he 23 would have still had an engineering 0089 1 activity under him. 2 Each of these was headed by a 3 director, a director of manufacturing, a 4 director of marketing, this kind of 5 thing. The director of manufacturing 6 would have had the -- reporting to him 7 would have been all of the plant 8 managers, and some technical production 9 managers in a more or less staff position 10 who also had involvement with the plant 11 technical services organizations. 12 Q. I am sorry, would you say 13 that last part again? 14 A. They were in a staff 15 position, but they had involvement -- 16 reporting through the director of 17 manufacturing, but they were involved 18 heavily with the plant technical services 19 superintendents. 20 Q. Now, I assume you were most OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036321 21 familiar with the agricultural makeup? 22 A. That's right. Essentially 23 all of my visits to St. Louis involved 0090 1 visits to the agricultural organization. 2 Q. Was there a headquarters 3 building in St. Louis? 4 A. Several. 5 Q. I have seen reference to 6 South 2nd Street. 7 A. South 2nd Street was an 8 original Monsanto headquarters. 9 Essentially that's where their, what they 10 called Queeny plant was located. In the 11 late fifties, they located their 12 headquarters into a suburban area in St. 13 Louis and that's where they were from 14 then on. 15 Q. Did that headquarters have a 16 name? 17 A. It was called just 18 headquarters. It was in a suburb called 19 Creve Coeur. 20 Q. What did the Queeny plant 21 make? 22 A. Mostly a variety of organic 23 chemicals. I only visited the Queeny OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036322 0091 1 plant one time. That was one of 2 Monsanto's, maybe their first plant, and 3 they made a variety of organic and 4 inorganic chemicals. 5 Q. The Krummrich plant, where 6 was it located and what did they make? 7 A. It was located in Illinois, 8 across the river from St. Louis, in east 9 St. Louis, and they made a variety of 10 organic and inorganic chemicals. Both of 11 these at the time were very large plants. 12 Q. Was the Krummrich plant much 13 larger than the Anniston plant? 14 A. Yes, much larger. 15 Q. The Organic Division, you may 16 not be able to answer this question, but 17 1 need to ask it anyway, again since you 18 are the first person who might be able to 19 answer that we have deposed. Who was 20 what in the Organic Division in the late 21 sixties? For example, who was their 22 division manager? 23 A. I am not sure I recall who 0092 1 their division manager was at that time. 2 I believe that Mr. Stratmeyer, who was on OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036323 3 the list, was director of manufacturing. 4 And I believe at that time, Mr. Hosmer 5 was the technical production manager who 6 worked with the Anniston plant. And I am 7 not too sure who the general manager of 8 Organic Division was at that time. 9 Q. Okay. 10 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't we 11 take a quick break? 12 MR. KELLY: Okay. 13 14 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 15 taken.) 16 17 THE WITNESS: I remembered 18 the name of the chief chemist who 19 followed Mr. Miller. His name was Toby 20 Bell. 21 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. I have 22 seen him on later memos. All right. 23 Q. Did you ever do any work on 0093 1 the Aroclor facilities? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Not at all? 4 A. Not at all. 5 Q. Did you ever go into the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036324 6 Aroclor area? 7 A. Probably only on three or 8 four occasions during this time. I 9 walked past it every day on the way to my 10 own area, but I had no occasion, really, 11 to go into the area. 12 Q. Were you ever aware of any 13 air sampling or monitoring for PCBs? 14 A. Not for PCBs. 15 Q. What was the air monitoring 16 for that you were familiar with? 17 A. It was for sulfur dioxide. 18 Q. That's all? 19 A. That1 s all that I'm aware of. 20 Q. Who was Ron Brown? In 1969, 21 what was his job? 22 A. I believe he was in the 23 laboratory, but I'm not too sure what his 0094 1 responsibilities were. 2 Q. Gene Barham, B-A-R-H-A-M? 3 A. Gene Barham? Gene was not at 4 the Anniston plant. He was associated 5 with a different Monsanto facility. 6 Q. Which one was he with? 7 A. I think he was with a plant 8 near Chicago that made plastic products. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036325 9 And I'm not sure this Brown person -- 10 Q. That might not have been the 11 same Brown? 12 A. This documentation here, is 13 it an - 14 Q. Let me show it to you. 15 A. -- inspection, or report of a 16 plant inspection? 17 Q. Yeah. 18 A. Okay. Those would have been 19 external people, I think. 20 Q. By external, what do you 21 mean? 22 A. From other plant who came in 23 and made an inspection of the Anniston 0095 1 facility. They shared plant inspections. 2 They had groups made up of people from 3 different plants and a bunch of other 4 plants. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. We had a Mr. Brown, I 7 believe, but I'm not sure that's the one 8 I'm thinking of. 9 Q. Well, I will tell you what. 10 Let's go through this in some detail, 11 because it kind of has an organizational OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036326 12 chart. I am going to ask you what 13 happened to some of the people. 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. Now, another name that I've 16 seen several times is G.L. Bratch, 17 B-R-A-T-C-H. I think he went by Jerry or 18 Gerald. 19 A. I think he might have been a 20 person from another plant that might have 21 participated in some of these 22 inspections. 23 Q. Did you ever hear of any 0096 1 concerns about mercury in relation to the 2 Anniston plant? 3 A. Yes, there was some concerns 4 about mercury that, of course, was 5 utilizing the chlorine. 6 Q. When do you remember those 7 surfacing? 8 A. I think they surfaced at 9 about the time the chlorine plant ceased 10 operating, or maybe slightly before. 11 Q. In the late sixties? 12 A. Uh-huh (indicating 13 affirmatively). 14 Q. What do you remember about OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036327 15 those concerns? 16 A. I remember that there was 17 concern about possible mercury 18 contamination in the area where the 19 chlorine plant was located, possibly 20 mercury in the soil at that location. 21 Q. Where was that? On your map, 22 can you point that out? 23 A. The chlorine plant was right 0097 1 here (indicating). 2 Q. This white building here 3 (indicating)? 4 A. Yeah, uh-huh. 5 Q. Let's circle that. I lost 6 our red pen. Well, we'll have to do it 7 in blue. I am circling in blue the 8 chlorine plant. 9 A. Chlorine, uh-huh. 10 Q. Who did you hear those 11 concerns from? 12 A. I heard it in the plant. 13 Actually, as I worked in the technical 14 services group, I had some involvement 15 with that, and maybe it -- it was some 16 early involvement and some talk about 17 remediation in that area. But that's all OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036328 18 1 got into, and then I don't know whether 19 it was just dropped or what the 20 resolution of that was. 21 Q. Is that your understanding of 22 why the chlorine plant ceased operation 23 is the contamination concerns? 0098 1 A. No, the chlorine plant ceased 2 operations because this was going away, 3 the Aroclor was going away, it was felt. 4 And also Monsanto had constructed and had 5 interest in other very, very large 6 chlorine facilities that it became more 7 economical to receive chlorine by tank 8 car than to manufacture it here. 9 Q. Now, in '69 the Aroclor 10 wasn't going away? 11 A. I know that the chlorine 12 plant disappeared primarily, because of 13 the facility at Pt. Comfort, Texas, for 14 instance, which was a very large chlorine 15 plant that Monsanto had an interest in. 16 So I guess that did precede even the 17 thought of the Aroclor going away, but 18 that's why they closed the chlorine 19 plant. 20 Q. Okay. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036329 21 A. And they installed unloading 22 facilities to receive these cars. As a 23 matter of fact, you are right, because 0099 1 one of the unloading facilities was to 2 unload cars for Aroclor. And another one 3 was to upgrade a facility to unload cars 4 for organophosphate. This did go away. 5 Q. And was there a concern about 6 mercury releases outside of the plant? 7 A. I never remember any concern 8 about releases outside the plant of 9 mercury. 10 Q. Was there a concern about 11 mercury that was found outside the plant 12 in the waterways and so forth? 13 A. I don't remember -- 14 MR. KELLY: Object to the 15 form. 16 A. I am not aware of any concern 17 about mercury in the waterways outside 18 the plant. 19 Q. Was the mercury remediated 20 from the site of the chlorine operation? 21 A. Iam going to say, I don't 22 think it was ever remediated. I think it 23 was decided to -- everybody knew it was OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036330 0100 1 there -- just to not disturb it. 2 Q. Was something rebuilt on that 3 location? 4 A. That particular location, I 5 think it's a bare site today. I don't 6 think anything was ever rebuilt on that 7 area. There could have been some 8 remediation, but I wasn't involved in 9 them. I don't think -- I don't know if 10 it ever occurred, really. 11 Q. Who was in charge of that 12 chlorine operation? 13 A. At that time, Mr. Faulkner 14 was the supervisor and Mr. Williams was 15 the superintendent overall of the 16 manufacturing. 17 Q. I may have asked you this and 18 I just don't remember. Is Mr. Faulkner 19 still alive? 20 A. As far as I know, he is. 21 Q. In this area? 22 A. He's not in this area. He 23 may be in the Pensacola area. He was 0101 1 transferred from here to the Pensacola 2 plant. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036331 3 Q. Is there anybody else that 4 was involved in the chlorine operation 5 that you know is still alive and in this 6 area or someplace where you know where 7 they are? 8 A. I am sure there are some 9 people who worked as operators or 10 mechanics that were associated with that 11 area that are still alive and in this 12 area. I don't know of any 13 supervisory-type person, other than Mr. 14 Faulkner, who might still be alive. And 15 1 don't know which of these hourly-type 16 employees might actually have worked in 17 there and might still be alive. I never 18 had any direct involvement with the 19 chlorine operation. 20 Q. So you don't know anybody 21 other than Mr. Faulkner that's still 22 alive that you feel comfortable worked in 23 the chlorine operation? 0102 1 A. No, I don't. 2 Q. Okay. Were you ever involved 3 in any way with the landfill operation? 4 A. No, I was not. 5 Q. Did you ever go to the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036332 6 landfill? 7 A. I think over the years I 8 might have made one or two observation 9 trips to the landfill, but that's it. 10 Q. What would that have been? 11 Why would you have made an observation 12 trip to the landfill? 13 A. I think it was j ust to see 14 the area and see where it was and that 15 was it. 16 Q. I mean, did you do that on 17 your own or were you told for a reason to 18 go over there and look at the landfill? 19 A. If I went, I was never told 20 to go to look at it. 21 Q. What, if anything, do you 22 remember about the landfill on the one or 23 two times you went over there? 0103 1 A. I remember that it was a 2 series of sales or pits where materials 3 were placed and covered later. 4 Q. Were these pits designated? 5 I mean, did they put different stuff in 6 different pits or were they just- 7 A. I don't really know whether 8 they had designated pits for certain OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036333 9 materials or not. 10 Q. Do you remember the 11 incinerator over there? 12 MR. KELLY: Object to the 13 form. 14 A. It was called -- excuse me? 15 MR. KELLY: I j ust obj ected 16 to the form. 17 Q. He doesn't like me talking 18 about incinerators either. Whenever he 19 objects, you can answer unless he tells 20 you not to answer. 21 A. Okay. I remember there was 22 an incinerator. It was called a tepee. 23 I think I did see that at one time. I 0104 1 saw the tepee. 2 Q. Did you see it in operation 3 orjustseeit? 4 A. Ijustsawit. It may have 5 been in construction. As I recall, it 6 did not function the way they had hoped 7 and I don't think it lasted very long. 8 Q. When you say tepee, you mean 9 tepee like an Indian tepee? 10 A. Yes. It sort of had a 11 cone-like structure. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036334 12 Q. Who was in charge of, if you 13 know, the operation of that tepee 14 incinerator? 15 A. I don't know who actually 16 might have been in charge of that. Iam 17 not sure whether that area came under Mr. 18 Taffee in the project group, which some 19 environmental things did come under him, 20 or whether it came under the laboratory 21 group or maybe the organic production 22 group. I'm just not sure who had direct 23 charge of that. 0105 1 Q. Mr. Walker and Mr. Sims said 2 the landfill was run by the shipping 3 group. 4 A. Well, I know that they moved 5 a lot of material up there. Whether they 6 actually ran it, I'm not sure. If those 7 two said it was, chances are it was. 8 Q. You can't think of anybody 9 else that you feel comfortable operated 10 the landfill operations or was in charge 11 of the landfill operations, I should say? 12 A. No, other than someone in 13 those three groups, which probably all 14 had involvement, I don't know who had OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036335 15 direct charge of it. 16 Q. And the three groups again 17 were the shipping -- 18 A. Project engineering. 19 Q. Project engineering? 20 A. And laboratory. 21 Q. Why would the laboratory be 22 involved in the landfill? 23 A. I don't know exactly. Later 0106 1 on, as the environmental activities -- as 2 activity in the environmental area began 3 to increase, the chief chemist seemed to 4 have most of that responsibility for that 5 in the plant. So it may have been later 6 on that they were involved with the 7 landfill. 8 Q. All right. What was 9 maintenance's job? 10 A. Maintenance had overall 11 responsibility for the upkeep of plant 12 assets. They would do repair. They 13 would do maintenance work of a 14 preventative nature, maintenance work of 15 a breakdown nature. They had a 16 maintenance engineering group, which 17 tried to improve reliability of OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036336 18 equipment. 19 Q. Was it their job to fix 20 leaks? 21 A. Their job was to repair leaks 22 and, typically, if a leak occurred, 23 someone in the area where the leak 0107 1 occurred would turn in a work order and 2 describe what was going on and 3 maintenance would make the repair. 4 Q. Where were they located? 5 A. They were located in, at that 6 time, in this building right here 7 (indicating). 8 Q. And what was that building 9 called? Is that building 28? 10 A. Building 28, yeah. 11 Q. I have got a list here of 12 maintenance personnel from the 1969 13 inspection package. 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. Are any of those people still 16 alive and in the area? 17 A. Let's see. Mr. Ankeny, I'm 18 not sure he's in this immediate area, but 19 1 think he's in Alabama. Mr. Tumlin 20 still lives in the area. He's retired. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036337 21 Mr. Rogers, who left Monsanto in the 22 early seventies, still lives in the area. 23 Q. Where did Mr. Rogers go? 0108 1 A. He, I believe, went with 2 Federal Mogul Corporation. I am not too 3 sure. Mr. Mizzell, I think, is still 4 alive. As far as I know, Mr. Hill is 5 still alive and in the area. Mr. 6 Findley, I'm not sure where he would be. 7 Others, I know some are deceased and I 8 don't know where the others live. 9 Q. There are some on the back, 10 also. I mean, on the next page there. 11 A. Okay. Mr. Curry, Donald 12 Curry is still in the area. Mr. Snider 13 is still in the area. 14 Q. What was Mr. Curry's job? 15 A. He was project planner for 16 the south area. 17 Q. What does that mean? 18 A. That would probably include 19 the Aroclor area and the polyphenyl area, 20 and the chlorine area. It would 21 probably be anything south of the main 22 street through the plant. 23 Q. Now, the next page I've got OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036338 0109 1 is -- just for the record, so that we'll 2 know where to find this when we look 3 back, the pages that you were referring 4 to were DSW 085419 and 085420. 5 Page DSW 085421 appears to be 6 an organizational chart for organic 7 production. And I would like to do the 8 same exercise, if we can, for these 9 people, starting with Hill Williams, the 10 general superintendent. Is he still 11 alive? 12 A. Yes, but he's probably 13 retired from Monsanto St. Louis. 14 Q. When did he leave, or was he 15 in St. Louis at the time? 16 A. No, he was, as it says, 17 general superintendent for organic 18 production. He was here at that time. 19 Q. In Anniston? 20 A. Uh-huh (indicating 21 affirmatively). 22 Q. Bill Voss? 23 A. He's deceased. Bums 0110 1 Severson is deceased. Mr. Haydel is 2 probably -- at this time, he was Aroclor OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036339 3 muriatic supervisor, so I had thought he 4 was still in technical services, but he 5 was not. He's retired from the Luling 6 plant. Mr. Williams -- 7 Q. Is he down there in 8 Louisiana, you think? 9 A. I'm sure he is. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Mr. Williams is retired, 12 lives in the area. 13 Q. That's Mark Williams? 14 A. Mark Williams. Mr. Lackey. 15 Q. Let's use their first and 16 last name. That way it will be easier 17 for us to find them. 18 A. Tom Lackey is retired and 19 lives the next town south of Anniston. 20 Lamar Faulkner, we think lives in the 21 Pensacola area. 22 Q. Right. 23 A. Norm Madison lives in the 0111 1 Anniston area. Nick Finley is deceased. 2 Mike Mullally is deceased. Harris Powell 3 lives in Birmingham and Troy Tally lives 4 in the Anniston area. 5 Q. Did all of those people OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036340 6 retire from Monsanto or did some of them 7 leave before they retired? 8 A. Mr. Voss left before he 9 retired. I think the others were retired 10 and stayed in the Anniston area. 11 Q. Did you have anything to do 12 with the health, with any health 13 programs? 14 A. No, I did not. 15 Q. Now, the nextpage of our 16 organizational chart is DSW 085424. It's 17 entitled "Technical Services and 18 Laboratory." And this is the one where 19 you appear? 20 A. I am, uh-huh. 21 Q. It describes you as 22 engineering supervisor, product area 1? 23 A. Right. 0112 1 Q. What was product area 1? 2 A. That was the organophosphate 3 area, paranitrophenol and P2 S5. 4 Essentially the agricultural type 5 products, but I mentioned we did have 6 involvement with the muriatic acid aspect 7 of Aroclor. 8 Q. Vince Haupt was the one over OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036341 9 product area 2, and that's what would 10 incorporate the Aroclor area, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Is he still alive? 13 A. Yes, he is. He retired from 14 the Luling plant. I don't remember where 15 he lives right now. 16 Q. Do you remember about when he 17 retired from the Luling plant? 18 A. No. I would hate to even 19 guess. It would probably have been as 20 much as ten years ago. 21 Q. Where is the Luling plant? 22 A. It's in south Louisiana. 23 It's essentially across the Mississippi 0113 1 River from the New Orleans airport. You 2 go to New Orleans, you fly right over it, 3 right smack down the middle of it, into 4 the runway across the river. 5 Q. Bill Niemeyer? 6 A. I don't know where Mr. 7 Niemeyer is. He relocated to one of the 8 engineering departments in St. Louis. 9 Q. That's where you lost track 10 of him? 11 A. Yes. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036342 12 Q. Dan Self? 13 A. He was one of the engineers 14 who, unfortunately, was let go in the 15 early seventies. 16 Q. You don't know where he is? 17 A. No, I don't. 18 Q. John Jones? 19 A. He was a co-op student. I 20 don't know where John went to work. 21 Q. Ed Bowles, B-O-W-L-E-S? 22 A. He is with Monsanto in 23 Pensacola. 0114 i Q. Charles McMillan? 2 A. No, Mcllwain. 3 Q. Mcllwain. Let's spell it for 4 the court reporter. M-C-I-L-W-A-I-N. 5 A. I think he left the company. 6 And Jim Mattern is at the Pensacola 7 facility. He may be retired now. 8 Q. Then, over here on the next 9 page, Bill Taffee? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Explain again what his job 12 is. And I apologize, because I know you 13 have said it before. 14 A. This is what I would have OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036343 15 called the project engineering group 16 versus the process engineering group. He 17 is still alive, lives in Anniston. Jack 18 Price is alive, lives in Anniston. Jerry 19 Besay works at the Luling plant. 20 Q. Jim House, do you know about 21 him? 22 A. He's deceased. 23 Q. Okay. 0115 1 A. Let's see. This may be a 2 different Jim House. No, I don't know 3 about him. We had an operator named Jim 4 House that is deceased. I'm sorry. 5 Q. These three engineers here, 6 did you know any of them? Glen 7 Morgan -- or no. 8 A. Brody Morgan. 9 Q. Brody Morgan. I'm reading 10 upside down. 11 A. Not really. 12 Q. Glen Ritchie? 13 A. I knew him at the time, but I 14 don't know anything about him. 15 Q. Russ Carlisle? 16 A. He's retired, lives in the 17 Anniston area. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036344 18 Q. Bunky Wright? 19 A. He left Monsanto and went to 20 work for the City of Chattanooga. 21 Q. Ron Brewer? 22 A. He was transferred to a plant 23 in Michigan, I think, and I don't know 0116 1 whether he's still working there or 2 whether he is retired. 3 Q. Is that Red -- 4 A. Goodwin. 5 Q. -- Goodwin? 6 A. He left Monsanto. I don't 7 know where he went to. 8 Q. You don't know if he's still 9 in the area or not? 10 A. I don't know. He wasn't from 11 the area. I think he moved back to -- 12 Bill Dunlap is retired and lives in the 13 area. 14 Q. Lamar Murphree? 15 A. Lamar Murphree is in one of 16 the company accounting groups in St. 17 Louis. He may be living in the area and 18 kind of working from the area. 19 Q. The next section, still in 20 the technical services and laboratory OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036345 21 area, is on page DSW 085426. And that 22 shows Gerald Miller as the chief chemist 23 at that time, like you were saying. 0117 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Toby Bell, as the senior 3 chemist and the process group leader? 4 A. Uh-huh (indicating 5 affirmatively). 6 Q. What was that j ob? 7 A. As you see here, we had some 8 chemists identified as process. These 9 people worked on process development. 10 They would develop, work on issues 11 involving the processes themselves versus 12 any analytical lab-type activity. They 13 would work on possible new processes, 14 optimization of present processes. 15 Q. What about pollution control 16 or pollution abatement? Who would have 17 done that kind of stuff? 18 A. At that time -- where did we 19 see Mr. Wright at that time? 20 Q. Bunky Wright? 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q. Engineering 2, pollution 23 control? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036346 0118 1 A. That would have been the one 2 who did the pollution work. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. He worked veryclosely with 5 the analytical group here (indicating). 6 Q. With theanalytical chemists 7 that we are about to go through the list 8 of? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Toby Bell, what do you know 11 about him? 12 A. Toby took Mr. Miller's job. 13 Mr. Miller was transferred. And he 14 became, I think shortly after this 15 inspection, I think, he became chief 16 chemist. And Mr. Howard-- 17 Q. Is he still around? 18 A. No, he's deceased. 19 Q. Toby Bell is deceased? 20 A. Yes. And Mr. Howard is no 21 longer with Monsanto. He left Monsanto 22 about this time. 23 Q. You don't know where he is, I 0119 1 assume? 2 A. No, I don't. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036347 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Arnett, Gene Arnett is 5 retired and still in the area. Jerry 6 Brown is. Of course, you know who Jerry 7 is, I'm sure. 8 Q. Uh-huh (indicating 9 affirmatively). 10 A. Ish Ransaw is at the Luling 11 plant. He may be approaching 12 retirement. Bud Kemp retired from 13 Monsanto. He's in the area. 14 Q. He was the analytical 15 supervisor at the time. 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. Don Turner? 18 A. I don't know where Don is. 19 Q. Don Yates? Oh, no, John 20 Wooster? 21 A. John Wooster is retired and 22 in the area. John Yates is retired and 23 in the area. Dan Blackstone is still 0120 1 employed in this facility. Andy Bonds is 2 retired and in the area. Jim Brooks left 3 Monsanto shortly after this. Gene Brown, 4 that's the Brown I thought you were 5 talking about a while ago on the from of OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036348 6 the inspection report, one of the 7 inspectors. I don't know if he's in the 8 area or not. He did not retire. Jerry 9 Hopper still works in the environmental 10 area at the plant. Gerald Maddox, I 11 don't remember what happened. Andy 12 Nelson later moved into a different 13 department in the plant. He's retired 14 and lives in the area. 15 Q. Were you part of the 16 Technical Services Department when they 17 started doing PCB analysis, trying to 18 quantify PCBs in various things like the 19 plant effluent and in sediment that was 20 collected down the street? 21 A. I think so. On that earlier 22 memo we were looking at, I believe I was 23 in that group at that time. That was in 0121 1 '69? 2 Q. Yes. 3 A. Yes, I was an engineering 4 supervisor. 5 Q. And you left that group when? 6 A. I left that group in, 7 actually, February of 1972. 8 Q. During that period, 69, '70, OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036349 9 71, did you have any involvement in 10 either the collection of samples or the 11 analysis of samples for PCB residue? 12 A. No, sir, none whatsoever. 13 Q. Did you have any input into, 14 for example, where samples should be 15 taken from, how they should be taken, or 16 anything like that? 17 A. None at all. 18 Q. I didn't think so, but I 19 needed to ask. 20 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't we 21 attach -- we'll just attach the 22 organizational sheets as an exhibit. 23 0122 1 (Whereupon, a discussion was held 2 off the record.) 3 4 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 3 5 was marked for identification and 6 same is attached hereto.) 7 8 Q. All right. We have marked 9 as Exhibit 3 the organizational charts 10 that we were talking through a few 11 minutes ago. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036350 12 Let me ask you now, I am 13 going to go through some other random 14 things that are -- that your name shows 15 up on. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. And most of them are going to 18 be things similar to that July '69 memo 19 that we talked about. So you may not 20 know much about it, but I want to ask you 21 and see whether you know anything about 22 it or not. 23 Here is the July '70 memo 0123 1 that has most of the same people 2 referenced discussing Aroclor losses from 3 the Anniston plant. Again, you were not 4 involved in -- 5 A. No, we were copied in just 6 because of the fact that we were in this 7 group. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Of course, this was the 10 plant manager then. This was the general 11 manufacturing superintendent. 12 Q. G.L. Jesse? 13 A. He was the plant manager. 14 Mr. Corder was manufacturing OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036351 15 superintendent. Mr. Miller, at that time 16 1 think was supervisor over in polyphenyl 17 and Mr. Bell was probably chief chemist 18 at that time. 19 Q. They talked here and this is 20 why I asked you earlier about air 21 monitoring for Aroclor. Item number 3 on 22 this future work list is, "Sample and 23 analyze ambient air for Aroclor 0124 1 content." Do you remember that ever 2 being done? 3 A. No, I do not. 4 Q. The next item, item number 4, 5 is "Sample and analyze tank vents in the 6 Aroclor Department to pinpoint 7 atmospheric loss points." Do you know 8 anything about that ever being done? 9 A. No, I do not. 10 Q. Do you know anything about 11 how the Analytical Department operated in 12 performing its function? For example, 13 when they wanted to sample, say, 14 effluent, do you know anything about the 15 process that they went through? 16 MR. KELLY: Effluent from any 17 particular area or overall? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036352 18 Q. Let's just say overall for 19 right now. For example, who would 20 collect the sample? 21 A. An effluent sample would have 22 been, more than likely, collected by 23 somebody from the lab itself or somebody 0125 1 involved with environmental activities. 2 Q. And then what happens? I 3 guess, can you -- do you know enough to 4 be able to walk me through the process? 5 A. Only that the sample would be 6 identified and taken to the lab and 7 analyzed. 8 Q. Did they keep notebooks, for 9 example? 10 A. They would have kept very 11 good records for all analytical work. 12 Q. Did you ever see them go 13 through that process? 14 A. Of sampling or analyzing? 15 Q. Both. 16 A. Other than just a notice, 17 maybe someone out sampling an effluent 18 stream, I would never go into the lab to 19 observe the analysis. 20 Q. Do you know anything about OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036353 21 any remedies that they tried to do to 22 reduce Aroclor losses? 23 A. Nothing specifically that was 0126 1 tried. I notice there were some losses 2 in the muriatic acid area and I don't 3 know of any specific remedies that were 4 implemented in that time frame of mid-'69 5 to reduce those losses. As I understand, 6 it was about six pounds per day. 7 Q. The reason you are talking 8 about that is because that's the area 9 that -- 10 A. That's the area I worked in. 11 Q. -- you might have been 12 involved in? 13 A. But I don't remember our 14 group doing anything that was directly 15 associated with that loss. It was 16 probably considered one of the minor 17 losses during that time. I don't really 18 know that, either. That's speculation. I 19 don't recall any. 20 Q. Now, you were talking about 21 the'69 time frame. Let me broaden it. 22 Are you aware of any things that were 23 done until the plant was -- until the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036354 0127 1 Aroclor plant was shut down to try to 2 reduce Aroclor losses? 3 A. Not specifically, no. 4 Q. What about generally? 5 A. Not that way either, other 6 than maybe have a knowledge that 7 something might have been going on to 8 reduce losses. But I wouldn't have had 9 any specific knowledge or a general 10 knowledge of what might be going on to 11 reduce losses. 12 Q. Focusing on the muriatic acid 13 aspect, my understanding is that the HCL 14 off cast was combined with water? 15 A. That's right. 16 Q. And then the excess water 17 from that operation was routed into the 18 sewer system into a limestone pit? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. And then on out into the 21 drainage ditch? 22 A. Any runoff, rain or something 23 happened to leak or be spilled, it went 0128 1 that way through the limestone bed for 2 further neutralization and then out the OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036355 3 drainage ditch. The acid itself was made 4 at specific concentration and placed in a 5 storage tank and shipped from there. 6 Q. Did you ever have any 7 involvement in looking at the sewer 8 system or the limestone pit or the 9 drainage ditch on out of the plant? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Other than just driving by 12 it? 13 A. That's all. 14 Q. That's the extent of your 15 involvement? 16 A. That's the extent of it, 17 uh-huh. 18 Q. Let me just ask you this: 19 Did you ever have any involvement or 20 interaction at all with any of the people 21 in the neighborhood there around the 22 plant? 23 A. No. That never was my 0129 1 responsibility. 2 Q. Do you remember anything 3 about the area around the plant there? 4 A. The area I would have been 5 involved in involved sulfur dioxide, OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036356 6 S02. And I know that there were some 7 monitoring stations established at 8 various places around the plant to check 9 for that. I know there was occasional 10 complaints, but I never investigated any 11 complaints. I never visited anybody. I 12 had nothing do with the monitoring 13 stations. That would have been the only 14 thing that I would have had any activity 15 at all in. 16 Q. Do you remember when that 17 sulfur dioxide became an issue? 18 A. It was probably an issue 19 beginning in the early sixties. 20 Q. Is that when the monitoring 21 was? 22 A. I think the monitoring 23 actually occurred maybe later in that 0130 1 decade, mid-sixties or later. I'm not 2 sure about that. 3 Q. Let me ask you about what is 4 called, in some documents I have seen, 5 the HCL sewer. Is that the same sewer 6 that comes off of the muriatic acid 7 facility? 8 A. I'm sure that is the same OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036357 9 sewer. The HCL that was made at the 10 organophosphate plant went in a common 11 sewer with everything else. 12 Q. There is a discussion of a 13 catch tank being installed in the HCL gas 14 line. Does that ring any bells? 15 A. One bell. I think my group 16 had responsibility in that area and we 17 didn't -- we did install one tank that 18 was called the coke scrubber, C-O-K-E 19 scrubber. There had previously been one, 20 and for some reason it was removed, some 21 modification there. Later on, it was 22 felt that it might have reduced any 23 Aroclor contamination that might be in 0131 1 the HCL stream and so we put it back in. 2 Q. When was it taken out? 3 A. I'm not sure when it was 4 taken out. 5 Q. Was that before your time? 6 A. Yeah. It was reinstalled 7 during my time. 8 Q. And what did it do? 9 A. It simply, the HCL gas simply 10 flowed through this and contacted coke, 11 which you might say is just carbon, and OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036358 12 some of the organics that might have been 13 entrained in the HCL gas would have been 14 absorbed on the carbon. 15 Q. Is that the carbon 16 adsorption? 17 A. No. Well, I wouldn't say 18 so. We simply called it a coke scrubber. 19 That's the only one we had any 20 involvement with. 21 Q. All right. 22 A. Instead of some fine 23 high-priced carbon, we just simply put 0132 1 foundry coke in there, which served the 2 same purpose. 3 Q. And did that stay in 4 operation, then, until the Aroclor plant 5 shut down? 6 A. As far as I know, it did. 7 Q. Was it torn down when the 8 Aroclor plant was tom down? 9 A. I'm sure it was. It was not 10 a large tank or a large vessel. 11 Q. What were the HCL carbon 12 towers? Is that what you are talking 13 about? 14 A. HCL carbon towers? That's OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036359 15 not exactly what I'm talking about, and 16 I'm not sure in what part of the process 17 they existed there. 18 Q. Let me read you this 19 sentence, then you can help me decipher 20 it. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. "Since the installation of a 23 catch tank in the HCL gas line, and a 0133 1 coalescer in the acid stream, the Aroclor 2 content in the waste acid stream has been 3 greatly reduced." 4 A. The scrubber was a project I 5 was involved in, or my people were 6 involved in. I'm not sure about the 7 coalescer. 8 Q. By the scrubber, you think 9 that's the catch tank in the HCL gas line 10 that they are talking about? 11 A. I think so. It formerly was 12 referred to as a coke scrubber. 13 Q. Okay. Now, it goes on to 14 say, "Based on this data, a decision was 15 made not to route this stream to the sump 16 presently being installed." Do you know 17 what sump they are talking about? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036360 18 A. No. I would be unsure as to 19 what sump they were talking about. 20 Q. "This resulted in a 21 substantial saving on installing the 22 sump. However, at times the spent carbon 23 from the HCL carbon towers is dumped into 0134 1 this sewer." What would the spent carbon 2 from the HCL carbon towers be? 3 A. I'm not sure what that was. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. I could speculate that it 6 might be some cleanup before it entered 7 the storage tank or some further attempt 8 to take out organics, which is what 9 carbon does. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. I would have to see a diagram 12 of the process to really pick that out. 13 Q. All right. Do you remember 14 the trial of a carbon adsorption system 15 for reducing Aroclor emissions, other 16 than this coke scrubber that you talked 17 about? 18 A. No, I don't. 19 Q. Do you remember anything 20 about a reactor clarifier for removing OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036361 21 PCBs? 22 A. No, I don't. 23 Q. Now, the Parathion Department 0135 1 had an incinerator, correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Can you describe that 4 incinerator? 5 A. Over the period of time that 6 the department operated, it actually had 7 three incinerators. These were changed 8 or enlarged or modified as a result of 9 various expansions. The incinerator 10 burned what we call a distillation 11 residue, which was material that was not 12 recovered for intermediate use. It 13 consisted of sulfur, elemental sulfur and 14 then various organophosphate compounds. 15 And these were incinerated and the 16 effluent was quenched and scrubbed and 17 primarily what was exhausted from the 18 stack that would have been a, other than 19 combustion products, normal combustion 20 products, would have been sulfur dioxide, 21 which doesn't absorb. 22 Now, this was used for two 23 incinerators. By the time the last OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036362 0136 1 incinerator went in service, we were 2 removing sulfur by other methods and did 3 not have the sulfur dioxide. 4 Q. Was anything else burned in 5 that particular incinerator? 6 A. That was an alternate means 7 of burning hydrogen sulfide. The primary 8 means for burning hydrogen sulfide was up 9 through a flare tower, but it could be 10 burned in the incinerator, also. It also 11 generated sulfur dioxide. 12 Q. Do you remember a concern 13 about hydrogen sulfide leaving the plant 14 premises? 15 A. Hydrogen sulfide, per se, I 16 don't remember a concern about it leaving 17 the plant premises. That would have had 18 to have been -- no hydrogen sulfide, to 19 my knowledge, or when I was there, was 20 ever just vented. It was always 21 incinerated in a flare or in an 22 incinerator. 23 Q. Were there times that the 0137 1 flare didn't work or the incinerator 2 didn't work? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036363 3 A. If that was the case, nothing 4 operated that generated hydrogen 5 sulfide. The only way hydrogen sulfide 6 would be released would be in an 7 equipment failure or safety device 8 activated. That happened on a few 9 occasions and that would simply release 10 what we would call the head space on our 11 reactor. 12 Q. Let me show you a memo, DSW 13 082526. I will let you take a minute to 14 look at it and then I will ask you about 15 some of the specific things in there. 16 A. (Witness reading.) I'm sure 17 that happened just as it says there. 18 Q. Well, let me lead into it so 19 when we read the depo we'll know what we 20 are talking about. This is a memo dated 21 January 27, 1978 from J.L. Brown to you 22 and to J.R. Walker. Who was J.R. Walker, 23 by the way? 0138 1 A. Dicky Walker. 2 Q. Oh, Dicky Walker. Okay. It 3 says, "Several discharges of biological 4 sludge through the 42-inch storm sewer 5 have been detected in the past few OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036364 6 months. As you are aware, we have 7 already received a severe letter from 8 AWIC concerning such discharges. It is 9 highly probable that their next 10 observation of this will result in a fine 11 and/or court action." What is that 12 talking about? 13 A. We were not supposed to 14 discharge anything resembling biological 15 sludge through the storm sewer system. 16 This should have all gone in the waste 17 treatment plant. 18 Q. By biological sludge, what do 19 you mean? 20 A. That's sludge that's 21 generated in the typical aeration-type 22 waste treatment. It primarily consists 23 of deceased organisms that have done 0139 1 their job and passed on. 2 Q. Later on, y'all started doing 3 some groundwater monitoring around there? 4 A. Uh-huh (indicating 5 affirmatively). 6 Q. Were you involved in that? 7 A. No. I think by that time all 8 of that activity had been placed under OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036365 9 the laboratory. 10 Q. At some point -- let me ask 11 it this way. Were you ever aware of any 12 attempt to gather health information 13 about the health of the workers there at 14 the Anniston plant? 15 A. Yes, in later years as 16 industrial hygiene became active, I'm 17 aware that health information was 18 gathered through our people in the plant. 19 Q. How was it gathered? 20 A. I'm not too sure about that. 21 Basically, I don't know how it was 22 obtained. 23 Q. Who was in charge of that? 0140 1 A. It's speculation, but I feel 2 that the laboratory and the plant safety 3 department at that time would have been 4 involved in that. 5 Q. I have seen reference to a 6 B.W. Eley, E-L-E-Y. 7 A. I think he was industrial 8 hygiene in the St. Louis area at that 9 time. 10 Q. Let me ask you about this 11 particular memo. On page DSW 085521, OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036366 12 there's reference to retrospective work 13 history of salaried and hourly 14 employees. Do you see that? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. A February meeting of Jan 17 Yung, Y-U-N-G, epidemiologist in DMEH. 18 Do you know what DMEH is? 19 A. That would have been -- 20 I think that would have been a company 21 department that dealt with industrial 22 hygiene. 23 Q. Jan Yung, did you ever have 0141 1 any involvement with that person? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Bob Peck, industrial 4 hygienist in DMEH, same thing? 5 A. No involvement there. 6 Q. AndB.W. Eley, E-L-E-Y, 7 manager of safety/health for MAPC? 8 A. I just know the name. I 9 don't know that I ever met the 10 individual. 11 Q. What does MAPC stand for? 12 A. At this point Monsanto 13 Agricultural Products Company versus the 14 former Agricultural Division. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036367 15 Q. And then later on it says, 16 "B.W. Eley, manager of safety/health for 17 MAPC, and involved plant personnel is 18 planned to discuss the retrospective work 19 history and future description of," and 20 it looks like MEHI, or -- (indicating). 21 It's this word right here (indicating). 22 I can't make it out. 23 A. It looks like MEHI. 0142 1 Q. Do you know what MEHI is? 2 A. Future direction of -- I 3 don't know what that is. I think DMEH 4 was Department of Medicine and 5 Environmental Health. 6 Q. That would make sense. 7 A. I don't know what MEHI is. 8 Q. Let me ask you about another 9 thing on here that you may or may not 10 know anything about. See down here at 11 item 6, it says "Monitoring Activities"? 12 A. Uh-huh (indicating 13 affirmatively). 14 Q. "Four employees monitored for 15 PNCB exposure in the PNP department"? 16 A. Uh-huh (indicating 17 affirmatively). OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036368 18 Q. What is that referring to? 19 A. Is this something that came 20 off of a monthly report? 21 Q. Yeah, let me tell you what it 22 is. It is from a monthly report. This 23 is a series of monthly reports that you 0143 1 were cc'd on. It's entitled, "Technical 2 Engineering Report," and this particular 3 one is from January 1984. 4 A. 1984? 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. By that time, monitoring 7 activities were plantwide and continuing, 8 involving some statistical determination 9 of employees to be monitored and areas 10 and all of that. 11 Q. By monitoring, what does that 12 mean, when it says four employees were 13 monitored? 14 A. There was probably attached 15 to that employee some sort of device that 16 as they went through their daily 17 activities, it would detect these 18 compounds. That's my guess. I wasn't 19 directly involved in that. 20 Q. Would they just randomly pick OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036369 21 people to wear the devices for a 22 particular day? 23 A. I think they did that 0144 1 randomly and probably on some statistical 2 base. 3 Q. This next one says, 4 "Fifty-three employees were monitored for 5 plasma and red blood cell cholinesterase 6 activity." 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. What did that refer to? 9 A. That was a blood sample that 10 is taken to determine if a person has 11 suffered a decrease in cholinesterase 12 activity as a result of organophosphate 13 exposure. 14 Q. Did you find that from time 15 to time? 16 A. I don't know what the results 17 might been here. This was very common 18 even before I arrived in the 19 organophosphate operation to periodically 20 test blood. First, a level was 21 established and then we tested it against 22 your level periodically in the future. 23 Q. Did they do that with you? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036370 0145 1 A. Yes. I probably was not 2 involved in this monitoring that occurred 3 right here (indicating). 4 Q. Do you ever remember there 5 being times when they found 6 cholinesterase effects from exposure? 7 A. I remember one occasion that 8 some people were exposed to these type 9 compounds and they did suffer a decrease 10 in their cholinesterase. And, in fact, 11 more than one was hospitalized as a 12 result of that occurrence. 13 Q. When would that have been? 14 A. It would have probably been 15 late sixties, early seventies time 16 frame. This occurred when several 17 employees were cleaning a tank car which 18 had arrived from a customer. Apparently, 19 it was still contaminated with some of 20 their product, which was a more potent 21 cholinesterase inhibitor than what was 22 made in our plant. I believe on that 23 occasion that there were some people sent 0146 1 to the hospital. 2 That's the only major OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036371 3 incident I remember. I don't remember 4 anyone ever just suffering a depressed 5 cholinesterase level that could be 6 attributed to any Parathion exposure. 7 Some people had different levels than 8 others. Some were quite low normally and 9 some were high. 10 Q. Do you ever remember any 11 similar-type testing for PCBs? 12 A. If they did that, I don't 13 remember any blood-type testing. I'm not 14 aware of what kind of testing occurred 15 for PCBs. 16 Q. So you are not aware of any 17 testing for PCBs? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Do you ever remember concern 20 about benzene leaving the plant premises? 21 A. Benzene leaving? I don't 22 remember any incidence of benzene 23 leaving. I know there would be concern 0147 1 about the possibility of incidence of 2 benzene leaving. 3 Q. Let me just broaden the 4 question. I think I can save us all 5 time. Do you remember there ever being OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036372 6 a concern about anything leaving the 7 plant other than PCBs? 8 A. I think there was concern 9 about the possibility or potential for 10 the organophosphate-type products to 11 leave the plant. And I think monitoring 12 and sampling went on in certain instances 13 to try to determine this. I couldn't 14 point to any specific incident or 15 specific concern. 16 Q. Do you remember any specific 17 time frame when that concern was more 18 evident? 19 MR. KELLY: Obj ect to the 20 form. And, Larry, when you are asking 21 that question, are you talking about a 22 concern that it had left? 23 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. 0148 1 MR. KELLY: Or the concern 2 for the potential to leave? 3 MR. WRIGHT: A concern that 4 it had left or was leaving. 5 A. I don't remember any 6 particular time frame. I know that 7 monitoring did occur of ditches outside 8 the plant fence to detect anything. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036373 9 Q. By monitoring, do you mean 10 sampling? 11 A. Sampling and analysis and 12 checking. 13 Q. Were there any permanent 14 monitors set up for monitoring that, or 15 was it just -- 16 A. I don't know if there were 17 any permanent monitors. There were 18 permanent locations where the monitoring 19 took place, but it probably involved 20 going to taking a sample. And in later 21 years, there may have been some types of 22 automatic samplers put in these places. 23 I couldn't specify a time frame for that, 0149 1 either. 2 Q. I know this wasn't your area, 3 sir, but did you ever see any Aroclor 4 spills or leaks? 5 A. In the production areas? 6 Q. Yes, anywhere. 7 A. Yes, there were. Like in the 8 production area, there would be leaks of 9 Aroclors. There were two types of 10 Aroclors, one called solid Aroclor, and 11 this would set up like brick OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036374 12 immediately. Liquid Aroclors would be 13 picked up with sand, or whatever, in 14 containers and disposed of, probably in 15 the landfill at that time. 16 Q. Did you see them? 17 A. Not -- I didn't walk through 18 the area that much. 19 Q. I know. That's why I'm just 20 asking. This is just kind of-- 21 A. I might have just, in 22 glancing over, seen somebody cleaning up 23 where a pump seal might have leaked or 0150 1 something like that, or a gasket failed, 2 but I can't remember specifically how 3 much. But it would be typical to 4 occasionally experience leaks that would 5 be cleaned up. 6 Q. Okay. So you remember seeing 7 them around; just nothing sticks out in 8 your mind about any specific instance? 9 A. No, nothing does, and it 10 would have been included in an overall 11 housekeeping effort to not let this 12 occur. I don't remember any gross 13 amounts or anything like that. 14 Q. Nothing stands out? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036375 15 A. No. 16 Q. As being unusual or out of 17 the ordinary? 18 A. Uh-uh (indicating 19 negatively). 20 MR. WRIGHT: Why don't we 21 take a quick break and we may be 22 through. 23 0151 1 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 2 taken.) 3 4 Q. (BY MR. WRIGHT:) We are 5 almost finished. I just wanted to go 6 back for a minute to, we talked about 7 when you became aware of a concern about 8 Aroclors. 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. And I'm not sure we talked 11 about -- I think I may have kind of 12 changed the subject on you before we 13 finished that. And I wanted to make sure 14 we got a chance to finish it. You 15 indicated that your first awareness of 16 concerns about Aroclors was a year or so 17 on either side of 1970? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036376 18 A. I would say so. 19 Q. And what did you hear the 20 concern to be or concerns about Aroclors 21 to be? 22 A. Again, I'm not too certain of 23 the years, but I think the first concerns 0152 1 we began to hear or read about had to do 2 with the Peregrine falcon, the problems 3 with eggs along the Hudson River Valley 4 and these areas. Again, I couldn't 5 specify that that was within that exact 6 time frame, but that's the first concern 7 I remember. I remember reading the 8 articles about it and maybe hearing it 9 commented on. 10 Q. I assume there was discussion 11 around the plant about those things? 12 MR. KELLY: Object to the 13 form. 14 Q. Is that true? 15 A. Yeah, there was. Since they 16 manufactured the product, there was 17 discussion about it. 18 Q. What do you remember next 19 about the Peregrine falcon in the Hudson 20 Valley? OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036377 21 A. Not very much, other than 22 just to maybe occasionally read something 23 about the problem that might exist with 0153 1 Aroclors. I wasn't, again, directly 2 involved with them and I didn't make any 3 investigation on my own. I didn't try to 4 really learn that much. 5 Q. I am just trying to -- since 6 you were there and I wasn't, I am just 7 trying to exhaust your memory about what 8 you heard around the plant about the 9 concerns about Aroclors. 10 A. Okay. Well, there was, to my 11 knowledge, no great amount of discussion 12 or concern in the sense that you would 13 here about it wherever you went or all 14 day, or something like that. You would 15 hear it mentioned. But other than the 16 normal activities of trying to 17 manufacture it correctly and clean up 18 correctly, I know there was always a 19 great deal of concern in those areas. 20 Q. But you don't remember it 21 being a particular or unusual concern? 22 MR. KELLY: Object to the 23 form. OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036378 0154 1 A. I don't remember that. 2 Q. I assume that also means that 3 your recollection doesn't include a large 4 amount of activity to deal with it? 5 A. That's true. There was very 6 little direct activity on my part dealing 7 with those products. 8 Q. What about observation of 9 activity by others? Do you have a 10 recollection about people being all 11 stirred up and in a flurry of activity 12 over Aroclor concerns? 13 MR. KELLY: Obj ect to the 14 form. 15 A. I remember activity, but I 16 don't remember a great stir or great 17 flurry. I remember activity in the area 18 of the limestone bed, making sure that it 19 was adequately stocked with limestone. 20 And I think in addition to serving as a 21 neutralization facility for muriatic 22 acid, I think it possibly also served as 23 a filtering system which would pick up 0155 1 Aroclors. It was periodically cleaned 2 out and hauled to the landfill, but OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036379 3 again, direct involvement, I didn't have 4 any, other than just observation. 5 Q. Okay. And that's the only 6 activity that you recollect observing 7 relating to Aroclor reduction or 8 remediation? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. All right. When the plant 11 was shut down, how did you hear that the 12 plant was going to be shut down, the 13 Aroclor plant? 14 A. I don't know directly how I 15 heard about it. What year are we talking 16 about? 17 Q. '72. 18 A. Okay. In '72,1 was in the 19 accounting department. And one of my 20 jobs in the accounting department would 21 have been to handle the retirement 22 associated with the dismantling of the 23 equipment, get this off the books. And I 0156 1 remember doing that. 2 Q. What happened to the 3 dismantled plant? 4 A. I'm not sure what actually 5 happened to it. I haven't -- I'm OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036380 6 speculating that the equipment that was 7 contaminated for any contact with Aroclor 8 would have been moved up to the landfill 9 and eventually covered in that area. And 10 that, again, is somewhat speculation. 11 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. Thank you 12 for your time, Mr. McCarty. I think we 13 are finished. 14 15 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0157 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA 4 JEFFERSON COUNTY 5 6 I hereby certify that the 7 above and foregoing hearing was taken 8 down by me in stenotype and the colloquy OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036381 9 thereto were transcribed by means of 10 computer-aided transcription, and that 11 the foregoing represents a true and 12 correct transcript of the testimony given 13 by said witness upon said hearing. 14 I further certify that I am 15 neither of counsel, nor of kin to the 16 parties to the action, nor am I in 17 anywise interested in the result of said 18 cause. 19 20 21 22 MICKEY TURNER 23 OWENS 10-15-1999 McCarty, Alan Gnce.TXT[8/22/2017 3:59:48 PM] HARTOLDMON0036382