Document vVQQVB1zjq4Z41XqxMvByjZLE

U n iva M atto D e tro it Task Fore on V iet Has V eterea* V e te ra n * A ccio Cooatltteer? Ia*fc- ^ Hun_ ictiom lr o f M urslng / "AGENT - ORANGE" May 15, 1981 and May 1 6 , 1981 OBJECTIVES Agent Orange, or d ioxin (2, 4, 5-T or 2, 4-D) p oison in g, has d r a m a tic a lly e f f e c t e d th e l i v e s o f many form er V ie t Nam v e te r a n s, r a ilr o a d w orkers, fanners and homeowners. Agent Orange was used by th e U .S . governm ent in V ie t Nam as a s t r a t e g i c maneuver to d estro y the food so u rces and f o lia g e o f the V ie t Cong. T his was a ls o sprayed around U .S. b ases to d estroy f o lia g e and p rev en t s u r p r is e a t t a c k . Many V ie t Nam v e te r a n s have been exposed to t h i s . In the U . S . , 2, 4, 5-T and 2, 4-D was used to p reven t weed growth around r a ilr o a d t r a c k s , on farms and on law ns. E xtensive exposure to th is chem ical i s b eliev ed to have caused many s e r io u s problem s: Birth d efects Cancer S terility Altered sex drive Nervous disorders Psychological effects This two-day conference is designed to provide the partici pant with results of current epidemiological studies, treatment modalities, psychological counseling, genetic counseling, litigation and legislative responses, and a panel of people who have personally experienced Agent Orange. 5J/D7//l8a1z C O N F ID E N T I A .L SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. C2284 6 AGENT ORANGE SURVEY QUESTIONNAIRE Name: Address: Phone: Dates of Service: Location of Service In Vletnaa (Corp, Base and Movement within country): i ii i 1\ - How did exposure occur? How often? Also, were you given the D&psonc P1I1? (Continue to Page 2) ** * CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. >! C22847 * c 3 the symptoms tnat you are presently experiencing: 1. Gastrointestinal 5. Metabolic (Confd.) Less of Appetite (Anorexia) i ; Nausea Vo Biting C'arrhea Constipation Yellowing cf eyes, skin and'urine (Jaundice) Liver inflammation Vomiting blood (H&nateaesls) Abdominal pain Gastric hyperplasia Gastric ulcers * 2. Genitourinary Stones Burning Bloody urine {Hematuria) Dribbling Brown urine Bladder discomfort Kidney pain 3. Seurological Tingling' / \ Nunbness V J Dizziness "" Headaches Twitching, fidgeting etc. (Autonomic dyscontrol) Suspension of breath (Sleep apnea) Incoordination Unnaturally drowsy (Hypersomnolence) Loss of sensation in extremities A. Psychiatric Violent Irritable Angry Severe depression Suicide Frenzied (Marie) ,Tremulous y-^tory, "oss Loss of concentration Severe personality charges Fatigue Rapid weight less Spontaneous fever Chilis 6. Cardiovascular Elevated blood pressure Blood deficiency (Anemia) 7. Skin Chloracne Rash Increased sensitivity (heat) Increased sensitivity (sun) Altered skin color JLoss of hair Brittle nails 8. Career Tumors Liver Lung Testicular * Ear duct 9- Endocrine Enlarged male manrary glands (gynecomastia Excessive milk flow from nipples Decreased sexual desire Difficulty maintaining an erection 1C. Visual Blurring Burning 11. Hearing loss 12. Respiratory Difficult or painful breath (Dysrea) Shortness of o*dth Matabelie r.t,,, CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT. TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. , C22848 V. Veterans Aomin)strati A) Helpful _____ B) Questionable _____ What diagnosis were you given? C) Hanful 2. Private: A) Helpful ;____ t B) Questionalbe _____ What diagnosis were you given? C) Kirwful Do any of your children have birth defects? Yes No If yest check as many as apply to each child: Child 1 Cleft palate______________________ `__________ Open dney*abnormalities" Enlarged liver Enlarged head Club foot Intestinal hemorrhage ~ Hissing orTbnoraaj fingers toes Hissing or abnormal reproductive organs Missing, abnormal or alsplaccd body parts Child 2 Child 3 -- :-- i ------- I Child 4 Coranents: (use this space for any additional Information): .v% CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT. TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. C2284t) ^ " f h e Veteran's SELF-HELP GUIDE ON AGENT ORANGE Suggestions for filing a claim at the VA for problems possibly caused by Agent Orange. The defoliant Agent Orange was widely used in Southeast Asia between 1962 and 1971. Many veterans have begun to complain about a variety of health problems that they believe may be related to their possible exposure to Agent Orange. CONTENTS STEP t; GET YOUR RECORDS STEP 2: PUT YOUR FACTS TOGETHER STEP 3: FILE YOUR CLAIM STEP 4: OBTAIN A FREE MEDICAL EXAM If- you think you have medical problems because of Agent Orange, you should go to the Veterans Administration and tell them. Doing this will say to the VA that you believe your problems began when you were on active duty and so are " service-connected." Even if you are not positive, but you are having medical problems now, there is no harm in getting your claim on file. ___ Nothing will guarantee that the VA will give you the help you need. As a matter of fact, through December 1979, the VA had turned down all those claims where veterans said their problems were caused by Agent Orange. But there are two good reasons you should go ahead and immediately get your claim on file at the VA. First, if your claim is granted, your benefits will go back to the date you filed your claim. Even if your claim is turned down, but the VA later changes its attitude about Agent Orange, they will have your claim on file and be able to reopen it quickly. Second, taking the time to go to the VA shows how' serious you are about this problem and that you think the government has a responsibility to help. The government can be impressed with a large number of vets requesting help--statistics can make a dif ference. NOTE: If you are turned down, you can and should appeal. Look for instructions on the letter that turns you down on how to appeal. The next section of this Guide is only a short summary of the VA claims system. A more complete description is found in the ACLU Handbook: The Rights of Veterans available in most bookstores. STEP 1: GET YOUR RECORDS To refresh your memory and help you build your case, you should obtain a free copy of all your military and medical records. Use a Standard Form 180 to do that (if not enclosed with these instructions you can obtain one from any VA office). STEP 2: PUT YOUR FACTS TOGETHER Before you go to the VA office to file your claim, you should put the facts together. Follow the instructions Copyright 1980, National Veterans Lew CenterM il Rights Reserved. C 285U To encourage widespread distribution,, permission to reproduce this Guide is granted to any member organization o f the Veterans Task Farce on Agent Ortmge;-and permission wilt be readily granted, upon written request, to those organizations supporting social justice fo r veterans. Bulk orders are invited. Segments o f this Guide may be excerpted or reproducedfo r counseling, self-help, and scholarly purposes without further permission; we request only that proper credit be given. A ny other use requires written authorization o f the National Veterans Law Center (4900 Massachusetts A venue NW, Washington D C20016). Second Printing: March 1980 / Staple to VA Form 21-526 to suoport your claim fo r Agent Orange related d"-bilities.} | ATTACHMENT 1 NAME: * ADDRESS: Dale filed: Claim number: C- I I request that'the VA. in addition to the information given here, develop pursuant to 38 CFR 3.103, evidence of m> exposure to Agent Orange while I served in Vietnam. Specifically, I request the VA to match the movement of my unit in Vietnam with an) spraying operations described in the HERBS tapes. 1 would like to be notified im mediately whensuch development has been completed and be sent a copy of the results of such development. This aiso is to request that the VA presume I was exposed to Agent Orange, as 1describe below, unless the VA can affirmatively establish that I was not exposed to Agent Orange. Because military service records contain no j information about veterans' exposure to Agent Orange in Southeast Asia, proof that I was NOT exposed can be j established only by a cross-check of my movement with the HERBS tapes. This request, and that any reasonable doubt involving my claim (particularly with regard to the question of whether I was exposed to Agent Orange! should be resolved in my favor, is made pursuant to 38 CFR 3.102. SECTION I I served in Vietnam from the month of . 19 , to the month of ,19 .1 served with the irI following o rg an izatio n s:_______________________________________________________________________ -- --- i | I was in the following provinces and towns on the dates listed below :____________________________________ I had the following duties during the dates listed below: SECTION II I was exposed to Agent Orange in the places and on the dates Hsted.below: SECTION III.A I request VA service-connected benefits for the following medical disabilities, which I claim were caused by my exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam: _______________________________________________________ SECTION III.B C22852 in addition to ihe disabilities listed above, I also file this claim for benefits for other current disabilities. 1want to make dear that I do not claim that these disabilities were caused by my exposure to Agent Orange. However. I believe I am suffering from these problems because I may have been exposed to Agent Orange and now fear that 1 have contracted or will contract chronic disabilities suffered by other Vietnam veterans who also may have been ex p o se d .__________________________________________________________ _________________________ CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. fouM iake an extra copy o f this attachment and send it the Notional Veterans Information Clearinghouse on J546 Catmecticut A venue fW y R m .itd , Washington DC 20036h we may beobte to 6 REQUEST PERTAINING Phase read Privacy Act Statement and instrue* DATE o r REQUEST tions on reverse. If more space needed, attach TO MILITARY RECORDS additional sheets. SECTION I-- INFORMATION NEEDED TO LOCATE RECORDS (F urnish as much inform ation as possible) 1. NAME USED DURING SERVICE lU a t, tin t. niddU) 2. SOCIAL SECURITY NO. ; 3. DATE OF BIRTH 4. PLACE OF BIRTH For an effective records search, it is important that ALL periods of service be shown below. ACTIVE SERVICE-- PAST AND PRESENT 5. BRANCH OF SERVICE iSJUv bIm Im I o rp n ir a lin , i t t a r n ) ' 6. OATES OF ACTIVE DUTY____________ . 7. Chack On *____ ; X SERVICE NUMBER I Data E n ttra d ' " TOata RalaaaatJ , flffic a tT Enlistad DURING THIS PERIOD ______________________________________ ______________ ___________ * RESERVE SERVICE--PAST AND PRESENT n o n e , c h ec k q n o n e -- - - i ; _________________ X BRANCH OF SERVICE I 10. DATES OF MEMBERSHIP__________ . 11. Chack On___ i 12. SERVICE NUMBER [ Beginning Date j Ending D a l* i" O fficer Enlistad I DURING THIS PERIOD NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERSHIP IF NONE. CHECK G NONE IX ARMY i 14. AIR IX Stata i IX ORGANIZATION 17. OATES OF MEMBERSHIP Baginning Data j Ending Data IX Chack Ona I t . SERVICE NUMBER , O ffiear E nlistad DURING THIS PERIOD 1 20. IS SERVICE PERSON DECEASEDT no YES ( / / - Y t T enter ie t* :) DATE OF DEATH ! 1i 21. IS (Waa) IN DIVIDUALA MILITARY RETIREE OR FLEET RESERVIST? NO YO SECTION II-- REQUEST 1. Q P LA IN WHAT INFORMATION OR DOCUMENTS YOU NEED OR CHECK ITEMS 2 OR 3 BELOW I I 2. Q CHECK THIS SOX IF YOU NEED A STATEMENT OF SERVICE ONLY 3. LOST SEPARATION DOCUMENT REPLACEMENT REQUESTED {Cktek Out) I REPORT OF SEPARATION (OD Form 2 1 4 o r equivalent) ISSUED IN ( . ) (Thia contains information normally needid to determine eligibility lor benefits. It may be furnished only to the veteran, hi* surviving next of fan, or to hie repre sentative with veteran's signed release authorisation--item 0.) DISCHARGE CERTIFICATE ISSUED IN __________ (IV.) (This shows only date and character of discharge and is of little value in determining eligibility for benefits, h may be issued only to veterans discharged honorably or under honorable condi tions, or, if deceased, to the surviving spouse.) HOW WAS SEPARATION DOCUMENT LOST? I U p i . PURP0SC~F6R WHICH INFORMATION OR DOCUMENTS ARE NEEDED .(E xp la in ) UJ 0 E REQUESTER IS (C A rr* preper U s ) r v n PERSON IDENTIFIED IN SECTION SURVIVING SPOUSE G NEXT OF KIN n la lim iU y ) O OTHER (S pacifr) SA. SIGNATURE OF REQUESTER Q . RELEASE AUTHORIZATION. IF REQUIRED 1 i A ris isa lriflira j oa r m r ir j I-->1 hereby suthori2e release of the requested informs(jtion/doeuments to the addressee shown at right. Ll L m1 S*IG*NAT.UtRuEmOpuFuVEtmTERAN [If a fa H 6a ether U n ID t/j 4*T'RELATIONSHIP TO VETERAN 7. REQUESTER (Piaaaa tppe t r a n a l aawpU t ra ta m tid r tm . netSt ZIP code) 1SO-1M 022354 STANDARD FORM ISO (REV. 1-7 P ratcribad by GS AGENT ORANGE: The Persistent Uncertainty and Continuing Anguish Are Not Likely to End Soon Agent Orange was one of several pow erful defoliants or herbicides used exten sively in Southeast Asia during the V ie t nam War to deprive the enemy of ground cover and destroy bU food supply. The chemical compound got its name from the orange stripes that marked the 55-gallon barrels in which it was shipped to the war zone. Millions of gallons o f Agent Orange were sprayed liberally over more than five million acres o f Vietnam, approximately 12 percent of the country's land area, between 1962 and 1970. Usually sprayed crop-dusterstylcrfnHn~U;S. aircraft, the defoliant was used most heavily from 1966 to 1969. when American troop strength in Vietnam was at its highest. The extreme ,toatidty o f dioxin, a con taminant found in minute quantities in Agent Orange, was not known at the time, though a few {dentists were beginning to express concern over use of the chemical in the late 1960s. But Agent Orange had immediate ad vantages Its use foiled ambushes and provided open fields o f fire, thus saving American lives and holding down casual ties. I:cw precautions were taken to protect our G ls-o r anyone-from exposure to Agent-Orange and other dioxin-bearing herbicides. The chemicals were not sprayed only in limited, restricted areas, and they were almost certainly spread beyond treated areas by winds and by water flowing through ditches, streams, and riven. In addition to sprayings over jungle and forest areas. Agent Orange was also used around base camps, compounds, roads, and ditches used by American forces. The Department o f Defense viewed these chcmkab as a boon to U 5, ground 1troops in Vietnam. But, in what is one o f the blackest ironies of the Vietnam War. Agent Orange may be causing the list o f the war's casualties to mount today--yean after the last drop of di oxin-bearing defoliant fell on the thick, steamy jungles o f Southeast Asia. Is there a cause for concern? As far back as ten years ago. apprehensions in the scientific community had become so pro nounced that the Defense Department decided to end the sprayings in the war zone. And a year and a half ago. the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency banned Agent Orange for domestic use in agricul ture and forestry. The dangers of dioxin first came to general public attention in IV7K when Maude DeVicior. a VA veterans benefits counselor in Chicago, became fed up with authorities who would not listen to con cerns over Agent Orange and went to the national media to expose the problem. Media news stories on Agent Orange began to. proliferate immediately, and the defoliants used in Vietnam became a na tional issue. For the past two years, the controversy over Agent Orange has raged. Many have stated unequivocally that Agent Orange has caused death and disability, while others have been just as firm in heralding the safety o f the herbicide. Both sides have been impassioned in their arguments, and both have snatched at what little scientific evidence that exists to prove their points. The fact is that no scientific evidence today conclusively shows that use of Agent Orange in Vietnam is causing long-term health problems among Vietnam veterans. When the defoliant controversy mushroomed two yean ago. it immedi ately became diear that no federal agency wanted to assume responsibility for the veterans who believed their disabilities and the birth defects o f their children had been caused by Agent Orange. To the DAV. it looked very much like the callous treatment the government had for years a (Tonicd to veterans who had participated in atomic weapons tests in the ,1950b and 1960s. Many of these veterans suffered disabilities related to the radia tion to which they were exposed during the tests. Yet. it look yean before a serv ice-connection was ever granted for a dis ability related to radiation exposure. The VA was particularly resistant to assuming responsibility Tor veterans ex posed to Agent Orange. Of course, the agency was faced with the possibility of disability claims and health cure costs that could amount to hundreds o f millions of dollars, and the situation called for cau tion. However, it was readily apparent (hat the VA. the Department of Defense, and other federal agencies were dragging their feet on the defoliant question. And. seeing this insensitivity to a problem that affected the lives o f as many as 2.5 million Vietnam veterans, the DAV and several others raised an immediate outcry. Early in 1979. these concerns were echoed by Senate Veterans* Affairs Com mittee Chairman Alan Cranston (DCalif.). who called on the VA to "move more aggressively to learn the truth about Agent Orange and determine ir veterans have a legitimate reason for their anxiety." Ile accused llic VA o f "pritcecdiog at loo limited and too leisurely a pace" and giving "an inexcusable lack of priority" to research on the health effects of dio xin-bearing herbicides. Mounting public concern forced a tut naround--though certainly a slow tur naround-in the government's attitude to ward the dioxin question in I97v, In th- spring of that year, a new VA advisor Committee on the Health-Related Effect of Herbicides was formed, and the VA pu some steam behind its research on Agen Orange. However, when the VA's advisory com mitlce was established, the DAV leamet that it was made up solely of governmen scientists, health care professional, aiv rtpresoMatives o f the chemical companie: No Vietnam veterans had been appointed to the committee to act as consumer rep rcsentatives.. Taken aback, the DAV pressured th agency into appointing a 'combat-disable Vietnam veteran. DAV Special Project Officer Bob Lcnham. to the commute* Lcnham has kept a dose eye on the gm eminent* pr*grev ittward resolving ih questions that surround Agent Orange. Though he advises veteran to he p? lieni and realize that scientific researc lakes lime. Ixnham Jremams dissatislic that the VA still cannot point to any pi live results in its research on the defiHiai issue. I "Vietnam vetarans And wuniHi ih* their government is doing everything pi* siblc to address the herbicide issue." Lei ham said recently. "Wc want to sec research conducts' expeditiously, but we want to see qualii research . . . research] that Vietnam vote ans can have confidence in," added l.ci ham's alternate on the VA commute' DAV Administrative Assistant C'harh Thompson, also a disabled veteran of if Vietnam War. ] The DAV's commitment to forcefi representation of veterans exposed > Agent Orange was reasserted by DA National Commander Stan Healer, also Vietnam era veteran. (That reprcscniaiit is not limited to pressure on the leder government to move on the research ui public policy aspects of the defoliant issi In the spring o i 1979. the DAV set a centralized system jfur handling clan related to herbicide exposure. Currcn the DAV is representing approximati 2.000 Vietnam veterans who believe th disabilities may have been caused Agent Orange or other defoliant. These veterans, of course, gel the li representation of c\|H'U DAV naiioi service officers (NSOs) in thetr areas. I the ccntrali/cd system oilers the add p,ge8CONFIDENTIAL S U B J E C T TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. DAV MAGAZINE C22856 : f w , AGENT ORANGE i s a 5 0 -5 0 m ix tu r e o f 2 ,4 - D , and 2 , 4 , 5 - T , ' two commonly used herbicides. AGENT ORANGE was i n t e n d e d f o r u s e by th e US M i l i t a r y I n V ietnam as a means of d e f o lia tin g ju n g le and d e s tro y in g crop^ which were presumed a v i t a l food source fo r the enemy. T e s ts perform ed on unused 55 g a llo n drums o f th e d e f o l l e n t showed th e p r e s e n c e o f 2 , 3 , 7 , 8 - TETRACHLORODIBENZO - PARA - DIOXIN, (DIOXIN), in amounts of 3 p a rts per m illio n to 50 p a rts per m illio n . D ioxin is c o n sid e re d to be "one o f th e m o s t'to x ic s u b sta n c e s known to m an." 0m ^ L o n g -term h e a l t h e f f e c t s o f DIOXIN e x p o su re are- g e n e r a l l y unknown and aubstancially u n te sted,7 I n th e l a s t two y e a r s a v e r y d i s t u r b i n g e v e n t h a s b e e n re p la y e d i n ' v a r io u s c i t i e s a ro u n d th e w o rld . T hose who w er in a p o s i t i o n to b e in c o n ta c t w ith AGENT ORANGE h av e b e en e x p e r ie n c in g v a r ie d form s o f p h y sical and m ental d y sfu n ctio n sin ce exposure. T ra d itio n a l m ed icala n a ly s is and tre a tm e n ts have proven s u b s ta n tia lly in ad eq u ate fo r re so lu tio n of th e ir problem s. O nly when c e r ta in in d iv id u a ls p u b l i c a l l y announced th e symptoms o f d io x in p o is o n in g , in Che b e l i e f t h a t US Servicem en/V om en had b een e x p o se d , d id th e c a l l s b e g in . L a rg e num bers o f p e o p le have now re p o rte d a v id e v a r ie ty o f problem s which a re th e same s u b s ta n c ia l com plaints acro ss' th e c a llin g p o p u la tio n . Systems announced p u b lic a lly a r e o n ly th e t i p o f a g row in g symptom l i s t . The o n ly common f a c t o r s ap p ear to be th e s h a rin g o f th e same p h y s ic a l and m ental problem s and - th e s h a r in g o f p ro b a b le e x p o su re to AGENT ORANGE o r one o f i t ' s com ponents Those close to the issu e claim cancer, b ir th d e fe c ts , and v arious o th e r forms of d e b ilita tin g o r l i f e th re a ten in g illn e s s can be caused by exposure to 3 to 5 p arts per t r i l l i o n . JON R. FURST# * CAVEAT INC. * (Concerned American V eteran s A g ain st T o x in s, In c .) InformaiVn distributed by Michigan Association of concerned Veterans A. O. Program 313-232-8742 CONFIDENTI 4L SU BJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. C22858 .- FAINTING SPELLS LOSS. OR CHANGE IN. TOENAILS LOSS. OR CHANGE IN. FINGERNAILS -HAIR LOSS TASTE, INABILITY TO, APPETITE LOSS RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS -- BEHAVIOR -- MEMORY LOSS "IRRITABILITY -SLEEP PATTERN DISRUPTION AGGRESSION DECREASED SEXUAL DRIVE CONFUSION r - DEPRESSION (INCOMPLETE FIGURES) TREMORS . GENERAL BEHAVIOR DISORDERS . 18. 22 18.22 14.52 14.52 i 12,7% 10.9% 3.62 *i, 65.51 60.02 54.52 43.62 43.62 . ' 29.12 20.02 7/32 3.62 -- CHILDREN -- , MISCARRIAGES ,, RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS FEVERS OF SHORT DURATION (Unexplained) RASHES ALLERGIES SPEECH DEFICIENCIES HEART MURMURS HYPERACTIVITY ^ CONFIDENT! AL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. 30.72 26.92 25.02 23.12 19.22 17.32 13.52 13,52 C22860 10 10 6 8 7 6 2 36 33 30 24 24 . 16 11 4 2 16 14 13 12 10 9 7 7 INFORMAL DEFINITIONS OF "SYMPTOMS" . ' "SYMPTOM" -TiOMBER 1 / VISION - Refers to occational blurring of vision, which can be "blinked" * - 5 5 5 * 7 and has occurred at some point in time since expected exposure, (usually Vietnam service). Usually described in one of three ways. V- Like a film on eyes, can be "blinked away", but quickly returns only to be "blinked away" again. Interference with clear vision *vvoay last a moment or two, to sporadic events lasting a day or two. b* * Inability to readily focus upon items varying in distance. If reading, may need .to blink and blink to change focus from book to o b j e c t across room. Those reporting blurring in this way bccation.ally report inaccurate perception of light in closed room as if a lamp is dimming or brightening, but~often "seen"'in an area of the room where no lamp is lighted. c. Eyes attempt involuntary "crossing", as if the person is desper- * ately fighting to stay awake. "Just like a kid in church trying to stay awake, wrestling with himself to keep his eyes open." Such people seldom perceive themselves to be falling asleep. Oust their eyes involuntarily trying to close. 2. RASH - This, Mtagory does not restrict itself to "acne-like" skin eruptions. It should be noted that all involved in preparing this in formation were shocked at the predomination of "acne" cases in this catagory. Many reported one, or a very few, unusual skin eruptions occurring under the watch or ring. The usual description is of "eruptions surfacing in Vietnam, or since being there,(including recently,) which itch violently as a rule. The eruptions vary in size and kind. Some are reported to look like a small pimple, a large pimple, or perhaps not like an acne eruption at all. Psoriasis like patches are reported, and according to some, can be anticipated by a recurrant,oozirig, poison ivy-like rash. Usually the skin eruption is perceived as an insect-like bite, which, if scratched becomes extremely tender and the itch more ^aggrivated. The eruptions are often reported to resist.actually coming to a "head", leaving a lump under the skin that becomes covered with scar tissue. They take a long time to go away, often leaving a small pock mark. If, by the way, eruptions occur under one*s watch*, I am told that continued wearing of a watch will "encourage" repeat episodes. Many report severe acne rash over much of their bodies. The nature of the rash varies greatly, and we have found that many who report having a rash do not associate "acne-like episodes" with their "rash". For instance, several reported having no rash, only to acknowledge with great -emphisis the acne-like events. .--- 4 of 10 C22S62 a. Scents'muscul ' * *.lI* ;J ..t*tJlt ft *' t>*. Se'emsi'"more internal" * (.i.l ** c. Seems spinal or skeletal in'-origin.*- '* T.-JM -vro/ - Often cqiisidcred'chronic by caller, and in-some- se'-ierely d.isatting `on'occation.* Severity'fluctuates. <* " -r.; 8 f AT ICUE "-!`Our be*st efforts1seem to-indicate-this to be more-a'.chronic problem. Is defined as both beyond what has been previously, normal for individual as well as out*of apparent'relation to exertion* 9. JOINT PAIN - Includes joint pain, joint swelling, and joint stiffness. Has been,Jwhen severe, capable of immobilizing a person.' For-some*!t is the. cause of greatly increased absenteeism from work; ."*<*. 10. HEADACHES - Host often described*as a marked increase in.frequency and severity of headaches/ Often described as beginning -ground eye area, or temple area:- 'some reporting the severity as -"blinding"-:- wives have said, on occation "he dropped to his knees; held his-face.-at his eyes, and simply began to sob." * * ; * >.r. -0:*./" .* We have heard this many times. We telievs that it is significant to .'''-report Variy ;say pain only occurs on one side of head; some:of* the.. ' ' '^"Symptoms11 in this'-list-seem'to be related to only.-one side-o.f,`the body - but different**sides for different people'/-,if *a- specific side of the body is affected on an individual - most of these problems will occur'on*that side. -` * \ .. I * .! 1 v i . .' 1 J, : **. IT. IRRITABILITY - Usually identified as a major', chbnge from familnor behavior Tt is a popular curiosity among those in contact with lots of callers '* i '*:to wonder if this'might indicate1a loss ordecrease in basic coping skills Callers "say-it is-absolutely beyond what has always been normAl for them. *.'-: *. I .i! ; !, .-t 12. LOSS OF MEMORY - Again, a marked change in familrec individual behavior. . Host appropriate paraphrase is "disruption of immediate recall'', or so it seems. The wives of some individuals propose that the information seems not to have been received, therefor, cannot be recalled. The best analogy being the difference between "hearing'! and '.'listening." Some'say have become lost driving on their own street.-.-, j 13. SEEING STARS - Usually occurs when arising quickly - but a small number * of those reporting "stars" see them while relaxed, watching, .television 'or something equally passive; - Many report experiencing this .when per- :forming hea\y labor, .or in conjunction, with ..other ."symptqms.". ****** i* : I " . " *- ** '. * . J* . . ! ** X, 14. `SLEEP PATTERN DISRUPTION - Many callers report the inability to go to sleep on a reasonable basis. Other complaints include awakening with a start, and finding themselves unable to return to sleep. Wives often * report that sleep will be avoided or unattainable for a t,itne,ionly for sleep-to'come* all at once for long stretches. "First he egni^ sleep, then nobody can wake him up, for long periods of time. f 10 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. G22S64 i; UAVL.nl .1 f' "" \ w * 20. GASTRIC DISRUPTION - In this category, we have included those who claim periods of a week, to a year or so, of markedly Increased heartburn and/or indigestion. Possibly significant, is the seemingly frequent report of ulcers since Vietnam, or the physicians perceptions that the stomach and entire small intestine is highly inflamed, or so some of ` these people have been advised. Host common response to the question about acidity, etc. has been Meat antacids like candy sometimes, or can't get through the day.*1 It seems to come and go. 21. REDUCED IMMUNITY - These people believe thoy experience a higher frequency of colds, flu, and general illness. They also perceive they have more difficulty recovering from such illness. % 22. THROAT PAIR/SWELLING - This catagory is for those who feel they have acquired a problem with frequent, (for them,) sore throats, and/or, glandular swelling of the throat. We are unsure of what this should be called for a better more defined explanation. One. Hedical School Student referred to the glandular swelling as."sub Mandibular non-tender.'* 23. CHANGE IN BOWEL HABITS - These complaints include periods of increased consitpation and/or diahrea. Callers who complained of such changes in their bowel habits characterize such changes as "not normal- for them." 24. AGGRESSION - Again, we are -hearing of a noteable increase in .aggression, as a MAJOR CHANGE in the individual's behavior they say they don't understand their feelings. They, in their own words "can't cope" sometimes. Host common descriptions include ah aftermath period of a day or two, during which many grieve for their behavior and discount altogether, any appropriate rational for such behavior. 25. NOSEBLEEDS - Since Vietnam or other possible exposure to toxic substances, some individuals have had a period of time in which, for no apparent reason, the suffered nosebleeds. Most commonly * these people have had a recovery of such problems. 26. WEIGHT LOSS Spontanious loss of weight has been reported by some. In some cases this is a result of one to three days of a revulsion to food. In some of the "revulsion" people, attempts at food intake were met with vomiting or intense nausea. However some report the loss of weight to have occurred without changes in daily routine or food intake. CONFIDENTIAL ' ' SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. 8 of 10 022866 33. DEPRESSION - Most don't wish to talk of such problems. In those reporting depression, it was largely agreed that the depression had frightened them by its intensity. Due to the nature of the phone call intake and some "mechanical problems" with the count, we discount the 20Z figure. We speculate that the figure is higher, and that the depression may be occurring in a come and go manner as do some of the other "symptoms". 34. 1.0SS OF APPETITE - See weight loss i 26. 35. FAINTING - Mostly, self evident we, on occation heard the report that people know they would pass out, but that it was never in time to act. Length of time unconsious varies from a split second to hours. 36. TREMORS - The same as the shakes. Involuntary twitching or shaking. Like a"brush with convulsions," doctors who have used muscle relaxants are reported. 37. EMERGING ALLERGIES - Allergic reactions to some substances, which have surfaced since Vietnam duty or other possible exposure. 38. -IMPOTENCE - A few felt this was possibly due to age! It varies in seriousness. 39. CHANGE. OR LOSS OF, FINGERNAILS - See Toenails 31. 40. UNEXPLAINED FEVER - Self evident/sometimes occational, sometimes chronic. 41. RESPIRATORY - Difficulties with the respiratory system. - 42. SPEECH PROBLEMS (ADULT) - This complaint was in regard to a man who now stutters but never has before. . 43. SKIN TUMORS - The development of fatty skin tumors is seen with j more clarity if entire contact file is reviewed. Also, the appearance of boils or cystes is a fairly frequent complaint. A core is present which is some times posessed of a foul odor. 44. WEIGHT GAIN - Many said they had gained weight since returning from the service. Fewer felt they had gained weight since "symptoms onset. 45. INCREASED SEX DRIVE - A rarity. Many, however, report no perceivable change in sexual behavior. CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. 10 o f 10 C22868 I fcro I fcroit S u k Taro on Viet r :3 Veter ut f Veteran Action Gamtttee, job* f for Airs obool of A m i n e AGENT OEAHGB" May 15, 1981 PROGRAM 8:50 9:00 10:00 10:15 11:50 1:00 2:15 R egistration Dioxin Poisoning-*Overview Jan es H. A lisa MD > JRL A sso c ia tes ^ Novate, C alifo rn ia (Formerly v ith the U niversity o f W isconsin) Break Dioxin Poisoning (continued) Dr. James R. A llen Lunch (on your own) Psychological Counseling Michael X, E a ts, HuD. C linical Psychologist Dept, o f Psychology Veterans A dm inistration Medical Center A llen Park, Michigan Genetio Counseling Eugene V.D. P e r r in , MD Professor o f Pathology in P e d iatric s Wayne S ta te U n iv e rsity D irector o f Hlstop&thology C hildren's H ospital of Michigan Attending physician a t C hildren's H ospital o f Michigan, Hutzel H ospital, and S inai H ospital P ast R e s id e n t o f th e S ie r r a Club of Michigan Break CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. (over) G22869 2:30 3:20 3:45 L itig a tio n and L eg islativ e Responses Arthur 8 Veil AttOBMV d XWt Soaloir Voll, Crowley & Banm 1 S outhfield 9 Michigan Mary Roxburgh Special Project A ssistant f o r Congressman David B onier Community Resources R e p rese n tativ e from, th e C ity o f D e tro it neighborhood Servioes Center fo r the Education fo r Returning V eterans (CEE7) Panel o f people personally involved v ith dioxin poisoning Tim Raef Moderator % SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE T)RDEk C2287U 0 ^ > '/ r 'X jU , 5 of maiory, nervousness, insomnia, birth defects, cancer, chloracne. Qiloracne is a reoccurring skin that dsesn't seem to have ary cure and we find that in the people we*ve seen about 85% of than are suffering fran chloracne in form or another. I have two people who live over at Davidson who can't go out in the daytime because they are so sun sensative, and they have skin like a crocodile. Sounds like a form of leprosy. Well as far as they are concerned it is. As to the birth defects, we have all of the information in a computer and, so that when we come accross a certain kind of birth defect we can see whether it's the kind of thing that we're getting a lot of. For instance, we have seme cases where the .children were b o m with their feet facing the wrong way, which is very odd, and we have 16 of those cases. We also have testicular cancer in young guys, which is almost unheard of. We have a 26-30 percent birth defect rate in our verterans, progeny, their children, in so j that we have a high number of verterans who are having surgery so they won't have any children. There is a terrible cancer syndrome going through this group of people. How about seme of e verterans that children of the verterans like, say they had kids before they were in the service, prior to and after they were in the service? We have cases like that. I have 8 guards, that there are 4 guards in the Federal Correctional Institution in Miland, Michigan, j J who were professional soldiers and had families before they went to Vietnam and children and^i all of their children are health1! Since returning from Vietnam the 4 of them have 8 childr^fe*j 8 new children, and all 8 new children have birth defects ranging fran severe learning Z Wdisabilities and eye problons to unbelievable grotesque. One child has wings, instead of Qarms. Just little hands that stick out. What possible action would you gain fran these . EWell this particular class action is against the manufacturers of Agent Orange, it is not zagainst the Federal Government, it is not against the V.A. as far as we're concerned. We claim that the manufacturers, who made a large profit in this matter, failed to warn the o V Federal Government that there were seme by-products that were going to be very harmful. They knew what they were! They know that dioxin is very lethal, on cup of it would kill Detroit, rerybody! They knew that 100 parts per billion is a manageable level as a by product to tile Agent Orange. In Vietnam, as far as we can tell, the average was 66,000 parts per billion of that which they sprayed. The reason it is called Agent Orange, by the way, is because 022871 8 . CINNUti'i^ SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. g; ^TLSters they sprayed it on had an orange band around it. But they also sprayed agent white, Diue, and purple, dst' different colored bands. Which held the same ingredient. Ya, the sane, it had to do with who manufactured it, I think. In 1967, in Vietnam, they used up the world supply of the defoliant. Everything there was in the world they used in Vietnam. They had to get rid of it santow. Well they did, and they came to the chonical companies and said we need more. Now there is a way to make that fairly safe, and it would not cost a whole lot of money compared to what the war costs, it'd be pennies, but no, they just went right in there and* they just produced it in vast quantities and had their techrucians-mixing, it and they sprayed it everywhere. You know what it does, don't you. It forces growth, so that the plant forgets to reproduce, and supposedly w e weren't suppose to go into the areas for 2 months or 3 months, whatever the period was, after they had sprayed. They were spraying our positions and they certainly sprayed all the Australians, they filed with us. They sprayed the first 100 meters of every base camp in South Vietnam. There is 330,000 tons we think. One cup will kill " troit,hey. Right, well three ounces will take out New York City in the water system. Its the most deadly poison known to man. It's absolutely devastating. Knew we don't know what's going to happen, we have a huge birth defect rate. I talked to 5 veterans, all have three children with sane kind of birth defect, out of 5. That's just the first generation. How long is this going to go on. That's what this is about. In fact, in 1970, on the floor of the Congress, Philip Hart, Senator from Michigan, made a skathing speech about what are you doing you're going to kill everyone, this is going to be unbelievably horrible. Then it took than 3 years to find out, then they stopped spraying. It was time to do it. Tim, .when did you serve in Vietnam, where and with who? I served with the second of 47th infantry, 9th division, and I vK>rk recongizanze in the Mekong Delta and ambodia. And what year was that? 1968,1969 * and 1970. Were you affected by Agent Orange, yourself, you know? I have kidney prob Ians, I have skin rashes that haven't gone away, ny eyes are failing, every now and then I have a loss of manory. Hum. Who is actually being sued by the other veterans?. Well, its the class rtion suit, is against the Penn Chanical Company, who principally produced Agent Orange. Principally,-the Daw Chemical Company. Hooker, of course, you would never want to leave them out of anything, and, give than all a plug, hey. Right. Are you handling any civilian dioxin ases, has there been any settlement. Actually, there was one settled against Dew Qienical and the US Etorest Service out West somewhere and it was settled approximately 2 months ago. .' Hie suit had been in process for approximately 10 years and they seguested the settlement, and that means that nobody knows vtoo got what, it's a secret. But the Claimants, who were sane ladies living in an area where t h ^ did a lot of heavy, spraying in forstration to cut down the undergrowth, had a lot of birth defects and miscarriages and prcblsns of that nature along this certain area. Hiey paid them all, but we don't knew what'they paid them, i but this is the reason for suit and it took 10 years to do it. Jim, you mentioned on last . week's show that this Country has been using Agent Orange all along for years, I mean I'm. It's beeni in use since 1940 and range lands ha*s been using it in past years where beef cattie for market, its been used state forest lands, its been used on the railroads, its been on the side of the road to kill the right away. And all along nobody ever knew the tragedy * of this. It's in some of the different fertilizers and weed and feed that you used to buy . l i ji the market. You know you. can make it safe. Hew is that just don't mix then together. No, No, there's certain ways to make it, certain process, which are more expensive and take more time, they bring down the dioxin level below 100 parts per billion, you can do that. And it works. But if you want to nake maximized profits, there's other ways. I won't say that they did that but there are 66,000 parts per billion in the stuff used in Vietnam.1 In Oregon, along the Clamith River, there's a man by the name of Silus Vigims and his farm was sprayed, he had 500 acres of fruit trees, and his farm caught an overspray frem the department of Forestry. It killed all 500 acres of his trees, that was in 1970. 8 years later when .they replanted 5 different areas of that nan's 500 a c r e s , a l l the trees died 8 years later. Hie ground was still saturated with that amount of poison, the trees couldn't live. He had a son 4 years after the overspray, and his son was b o m with a cleft palate. The people who live next door to him, down the road or whatever, their son was b o m with a birth defect and they believe it came frem the dioxin in his land through the water systan that can between the houses. You said, wait a second, let m e get this straight, you said 8 years CONFIDENTIAL SU BJEC T TO PROTECTIVE ORQER. CS2873 # * r " ter the ground was still saturated. Still saturated. For the stuff to go away. 500 years or else you can b u m it. EOrever. In other words, we gota live with this. It's something that doesn't go away, you gota understand that its biodegradeable. It doesn't go away. It's just there, all the time. You can get rid of it by burning it at 2,000. Ok, that's what they did with the 200 million gallons that were left over in Vietnam. It wasn't allowed to i be brought back to the United States, so they burned it on a ship in the South Pacific called Valcanus, an inceneration ship. Didn't they import it. They didn't even want it back in i the United States. It was banned in 1970 in South Vietnam, but the ban wasn't put on hte United States until 1978. How long does this stuff last in your body then if it lasts on Earth that long? We don't know, we've only been through our first generation. If it affects the DNA structure of the body, than once that blue print of life has .been affected it oould go on for untolled generations. That's what part of the suit is, to set up the proper research facilities to discover its course and how long it lasts. We don't knew, sally, but supposedly it "last forever. It's in the structure, the cell structure and once that happens, grandchildren of Vietnam veteran and great grandchildren ad infinitum will be having birth defects that are caused by something that happened in 1969 in the Mekong Delta. How about' the Vietnamese people.thsnselves, what's happening with than? That's a great question because the South Vietnamese nationals have .been paid for Agent Orange birth defects and they've been paid for defoliation and the loss of property. By United States Government? Right, the United States Government, but the United States Government won't pay their own Vietnam Veterans for birth defects and problems that they thenselves are suffering at this time. And the people in the North won't admit that they were fighting in the South so they don't have a claim. Oh 1 see. But there's a study tjone in Switzerland about birth defects and cancer related incidents and relationship of stomack cancer of people who live in North Vietnam , South Vietnam is so astronomical i t 's a joke, its off every graph. There's so many people there* with cancer. Hew many suits have been filed just in the veterans favor? C O ^D EN TiA L SU BJEC T TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. 022874 9 I (H ^ vli the class action'suit has not been won, it goes on. ,,, ' It goes by what motions, is that \* what that is? Well, presently, they made a motion to discover whether or not there is a Federal Ca nnon law that question is being taken up to the Supreme Court of the United States, we expect to prevail, we prevail alot of times when logic says we're not supposed to, and every day the numbers grows, the evidence g r w s , more birth defects, more people with strange kinds of cancer, more kinds of interesting medical problems that shouldn't happen to people. Like I mentioned before, testicular cancer. You never see testicular cancer in anybody under 30, just loads of people with that problen. That's supposed to be a rare type of cancer. Well older, older, you know 27 years old, it just doesn't happen. W e have won host of the motions that we have come forth with, and we have been met at every turn with sane hard fighting, but we're doing great and things that we never think we need, we get in the nail anonymously. We have gotten reports, secret government reports have ocme to our leading ' lawyer in New York, Victor , who is the lead lawyer in this case, from who kncws ^ here. Secret Air Force reports. Can they be used in Court? We find a report, we can get another copy of it. Well we're trying to do as much we can do, but there's a lot of cover up here, we think, I don't know who to point to but this is a huge national problan and its gona take in a lot of people. We have people that are today, who had been in Vietnam 13 years ago, wake up tonorrcw morning and find, out they have cancer. I had a guy the first of the year, came to see me, .worked in a bank in Lansing. He was a Marine in Vietnam, he was there in *70, early *70's, and he felt pain in his shoulders, 31 years old. He went to see seme doctor. Naw, its tennis shoulder. Then he went to see a second opinion, and they took his shoulder off. We did a tissue biopsy, that's how I knew this is an Agent Orange case, there'< no question about it. We have the shoulder, and they did a tissue biopsy and we discovered dioxin in the fat tissue. There's no question in ny mind, from the outfit.he was in,- the are; he was in that he was sprayed. But it took him 13 years for it to develope. Now what else is going to happen, hew many other guys are walking around like time banbs waiting for 'something to happen. I mean I have people that come in today, who are having problems that c o n f i d e M tax .are 2 and 3 months old, and haven't been in Vietnam.or thought about it for 10 and 12 years. s u b j e c t ,t o p r o t e c t i v e o r d e r . 9i incredible, awl what if they, have a child? We have a child with 7 of everything. 7 spleens t h e wtole thing, its incredible. The chance that they've taken. Isn't there a safe way to use this at all, or is it. well, they could make it so that its useable. I don't know if it is safe or not. Prior to Vietnam, didn't, wasn't there directions on. On What! They sprayed it fran the air. They sprayed it totally undiluted. They shipped it ever in 55 gallon d n m s . YOu were in the A m y , weren't you? Ya, I was in Vietnam. Right. That was in 1971. They were spraying then. They told m e it was. No, NO, they were spraying till *73, even though Tim thinks they stopped in *70. Hum. That's when the ban was put on. They changed the color codes then. They were spraying. Don't you know. YOu knew hew the A m y does things. Everybody lines up and measures it out. They dump it out of the plane, Where do you think you are, that's war! People are shooting at you, you gona sit there and say what a minute we better not drop the dioxin on these guys, we might hit the Australians or the 9th division. Drop it out of the plane and go heme. It's the (name of the game. Put o u 8 hours in and go hone. "Right, you were there. These suits that are filed now, are V- - these covering just the Vets or is there something in it for their children and stuff. Oh yes, children are definately a large part of this suit. It makes up the real thrust of the suit. And what we really like to do, is we would like to have the studies done that we should have done. The V A has turned a deaf ear to this problen. In fact, just recently they decided there was something called Vietnam syndrome, which is kind of a new classifi cation for disability. I would say that 80% of the people I see have it in one degree or another, but they pay disability for that! The veteran that is forced to go into a veterans hospital for any problem ... (end of side one) Veterans whom they can't coranunicate with, they may be capable doctors but they don't speak English frankly. That's not funny if you have to go in there. We got something here from a Dr. Elizabeth Whalen from Scottsdale. She stated that she couldn't "link 2452 to health problsns in animals or humans. She stated this to the EPA two weeks ago in efforts having the ban an 2452 usuage in the United States lifted. What effects is this having an the environmoital food stuffs that we grow in the United States. Let me say this to you, CONFIDENTIAL C22870 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. 9- (P \ would like to know \dso financed her studies-. Because I know for af fact that we can't have 30,000 with the same problon and have sane doctor who who knows where she got her nosney from, say oh that just kind of a coincidence right. Hew about 30,000 people that didn't go to Vietnam, lets see how many deformed children they have, and hew much cancer they have. I'll bet you that it'll be significantly different, OK. But the government won't do that study, that the study, we have a study, we're ready. We're not shewing it yet, we knew what we're doing. X' don't care what Elizabeth whats-her-face says. Dr. Elizabeth Vftialen. Right. Are you familiar with the South resolution bill 6377, its knew in Congress, for the benefit of Veterans exposed to Agent Orange. That bill is in Congress right]/, Representative Dashill introduced the bill its got the. signature and indorsement of 136 other Congressmen. What the bill provides for is the veteran be allowed to be paid same type of disability for Agent Orange exposure, he does not have to prove his exposure, all he has to furnish.the VA with is his DD2-14 and his military records. Fran that, the Military has to.prove he wasn't an area sprayed. So, therefore, what this bill is doing is offering the veteran benefits \ on a presumption basis. They don't have to prove it. The VA has to prove that they weren't there and that they were not sprayed and that why this hill is very important to the veterans right now. Especially with the budget cuts that are going to be enacted pretty soon against the Veterans affairs and VA Administration, the Veteran outreach program, Bamboo raft and the Flight of the Pheoriix will all be cut out all the phsycological help and job placenent, technical training assistance programs will all be cut out by the budge cuts that Reagan's proposed. It canes dewn to 1/100 of 1% of the total Federal Budget. He sends* that 1/100 to El Salvador, it doesn't sesn quite fair to the Vietnam Veterans. It's funny because they just had fought Congress for so long to get a job placement bill that was suppose to go into affect in January and what was it called Dwatt or Dbopp or something, a funny na^re. like that. And just as they got it going it's the first thing that cut, so nobody, CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. C22877 they had studies, I meai> feasibility stddies and all of that crap you know that they do, - and they finally got then passed, and then they cut it out, so nobody every got anything, even though it took them 3 years apd they did tons of studies and the feasibility and they really need this and the Vietnam Veterans really needs this and were gona do it in all the Viet centers. You know, the D-bopp program or the D-Wapp program or whatever it's called. 'They cut it out nobody every got trained, they did all these fabulous studies to say they need it but know they cut it out. JUst a front in other words.1 Well, 1 mean, renanber that's all fron Jinny Carter era and this is Ronald Reagan. But Reagan has always said you know h e 's a strong veterans guy, and everything else as long as it doesn't-cost any money. He supports the Vietnam veteran and h e 's kind of a haunt, but he closed-all of the Vet Centers, and there all gona be gene by October, there w o n 't be one left. Bamboo Raft and the Flight of the Phoenix w e di dn't get in Detroit until late '78, so we haven't even been effective, knew we've had two and a half years of effectiveness, people are just starting to realize that they exist, the veterans have psychological problems, their wives go dewn there, and try and find out why is my husband acting like this, he did rot act like this before. At least Bamboo Raft and Flight of the Fheonix are able to help these people and give them sane type of direction,`know there gone. Hum. Hew long do you expect the litigation to take in these suits, before the final verdict comes down? I don't knew, I wish I knew. TV*o or Three years I imagine it'll be and then we'll see an end to it. Don't you think that the Vietnam Veteran, maybe some of than don't have that much time left. We have, we're taking depositions all the time by video tape of guys who are dying. The initial suit, the first case, was the one of the two Agent Orange victims who were ever acknowledged by the VA and paid by the VA, died the night they paid him and % they of course, cancelled the check. He is the lead case in this whole suit, it's all on video tape too. We take video tapes, oh somewhere in the Country, probably every day. I'm doing one in Harbor Springs or Silver Springs in two weeks of a Veteran who we don't expect to survive. TWo in Harper Hospital right now, who we are trying to arrange for testimony at this point so we can put it away, for their'estates. CONFIDENTIAL SU BJECT TQ PROTECTIVE ORDER. Which is their Children? C2287S \ Whoever. We have veterans dying a l l th e tim e. You know, t h is i s not a new problem. In the la te '4 0 's and early ' 4 0 ' s , they te s te d a to n ic banbs on .American Troops, you know. I f there ever, a l l o f the names o f a l l o f th e troops th a t went bo th ese a to n ic t e s t s , and, o f course, th e y 're a l l seen on Movietone News, watching th e t e s t , and a l l o f those guys have high ra te s o f cancer. Most o f them a re dead, 30 years ago, 35 years ago. They were as clp se as 400 yards bo an a to n ic b la s t . Our own guys, checking i t c u t. I ranember l a s t week when Ken Bowling was on the program, h is daughter developed a ,sm a ll pimple behind her ear, and th is week she i s in the h o sp ita l and i t had grown in sid e o f a week to a s iz e o f . a g o lf b a l l , she had i t removed s u r g ic a lly t h is morning. The doctor co u ld n 't a c u ta lly give why th is occurred. Howold i s she? S h e 's under th e age o f 8. Hon. You mentioned th a t you were the Communications D ire cto r o f V eterans Action Ocmmittee, ju s t what i s th i$ Veterans Action Ocrmittee? The Veterans Action C crm ittee was s e t up two years ago a t f Macomb C ollege to help Veterans with Education b e n e fits and with Agent Orange claim s and to help Veterans in the canrnunity have a p la ce to go and have a rap sessio n with t h e ir own type o f peers and p ossib ly do seme good in the cxximunity. Then you were ju s t the attorney in th e, the head go g e t t e r , hey, fo r th e c la s s a ctio n s u it? The c la s s a c tio n s u it i s in every s t a t e , and my p a r tic u la r ju r is d ic t io n in th a t c la s s i s Southern Michigan ar the Federal prison system. You working in o r ou t o f the p risons to huh. Hcm a re the guys in prison taking th is know? T h ere's a high degree o f Vietnam veteran who i s cane, run a fou l in the long, the prisons are ju s t loaded w ith guys who have been in Vietnam. In cred ib le numbers. How i s th ere medical treatm ent compared bo our lik e on the o u ts k ir ts . W ell, medical treatment in prison i s never the g r e a te s t, i t s kindof a co n tro lle d atmosphere. I t turns out a lo t o f guards in Federal Prison System a re a lso Vietnam V eterans, we have a lo t o f them as c lie n ts to o . Same o f the con d ition s th a t a re , they h a lu cin a te a lo t . But th e y 're the extreme c a se s, and th ere i s same very serio u s problems among th ese people and among th ese people and among th e ir progeny, a lo t o f them have fa m ilie s , and th ere ju s t in c redib l e the kinds o f skin conditions and ca n cers, kidney problems th a t are unheard of in people who hadn't been to Vietnam. Right accross the board, you won't ju s t fin d on^ CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. 03287 f y o u 'll find 1/100. We have a l l the inform ation in a compu te r in New York and we were kind o f hoping th a t the Federal Government would match our people with as many people th a t they have th a t have not been to Vietnam so th a t th e re would be a d e f in it iv e study and th ere 9 could be a p r o file made on what i s the Vietnam v eteran ' and what i s h e r e a lly about and a lso the b ir th d e fe ct thing is ju s t overwhelming a t tim es, I mean sometimes i t s overwhelming i t tru ly i s . I t ' s rid icu lo u s. The r a t e i s 'in c r e d ib le , i t s . 26 or 28 o f th e ir ch ild ren . The n atio n al average i s ju s t minut by comparison. I f any o f our viewers ou t th ere want to co n tact you, e ith e r one o f you two about more inform ation on Agent Orange how would they g et a hold o f you. Well as a m atter o f f a c t we a re having an Agent Orange soninar a t the Vets Manorial and i t s May 16 a t the Veteran Memorial building in D e tro it th ere w ill be a seninar and I am lis t e d in the book i f anybody wants to ta lk about i t . We w ill be holding open house a t the Bamboo R aft and a t th e F lig h t o f the Phoenix from the week o f th e 11th fo r any Vietnam Veteran who wants to come over and d iscu ss h is problems o r he can c a l l me a t my o f f i c e and come any time he wants. They can g e t a hold o f you through Veterans Action Committee, a t Macomb C ollege. WELL THAT'S ABOUT OUR SHOW FOR TODAY." I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. Our guest next week w ill include Bob M orris, h e ' s the Health D irecto r fo r Veterans Action Oanmittee out o f Macomb County Ocmmunty C ollege. CONFIDENTIAL SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER. rVJ322880