Document v6QDzJn6aLQ2LQeEm9qbx8Z4q

JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 22 Page 24 1 you were going to go somewhere, you put something on it. 1 A. Yes. 2 But essentially the answer is no. I'm never real good with 2 Q. And do you know why you were selected? 3 a computer. 3 A. I believe at the time, I was chairman of the 4 Q. Did other people have computers -- Strike 4 Lead Industry Association. 5 that. 5 Q. When were you chairman? 6 Do you know if Dan Vornberg had a computer? 6 A. Late '80s, early '90s, and then again late 7 A. Certainly. 7 '90s. Late '90s. 8 Q. And would you and Mr. Vornberg e-mail each 8 Q. Okay. Is that an elected position? 9 other? 9 A. That's a good question. Well, hell, it must 10 A. Certainly. 10 have been. But I don't -- well, sure. It had to be. The 11 Q. Would that have been true also with 11 board of directors -- I think I remember, you know, there 12 Mr. Fitzsimmons? 12 was a nominating committee and somebody came to you and 13 A. Yes. 13 said, we'd like for you to be a candidate. And then I 14 Q. Was it general policy for management to have 14 believe the board of directors agreed with the nomination. 15 their own computers at Doe Run? 15 And then at an annual meeting, it was put to the 16 A. Can you be more specific when you say their 16 membership. 17 own. 17 Q. How many people attend the annual meeting? 18 Q. Well, to have -- Was it general policy for 18 MR. ROTHSCHILD: At what time? 19 managers to have the computer that they would use? 19 Q. (By Mr. Smoger) Generally. 20 A. Yes. 20 A. I'm sorry? 21 Q. Do you know if any of these computers were 21 Q. Generally while you were chairman, how many 22 checked for documents related to this case? 22 people would attend the annual meeting? 23 A. I do not. 23 A. A hundred. 24 Q. And if such a check was made, who do you think 24 Q. Do you know how much money on average per year 25 would be assigned to make that check of the computers? 25 Doe Run gives to the Lead Industry Association? Page 23 Page 25 1 A. Well, I would assume it would be under Lou 1 A. Well, in latter years, nothing because the LIA 2 Marucheau's purview. 2 ceased to exist. But in the years when it was active, a 3 Q. Was anybody other than the people that were 3 couple hundred thousand dollars. 4 under the chief information officer in control of the 4 Q. Per year? 5 computers or having access to the backup tapes -- Strike 5 A. Per year, yes. 6 that. 6 Q. When did it cease to exist? 7 If you wanted to see information from a backup 7 A. I'm sorry? 8 tape if something was lost, who would you go to? 8 Q. When did it cease to exist? 9 A. Well, I never did. But I would have gone 9 A. Late '90s. 10 to -- I don't know what his title was -- but kind of the 10 Q. Were you chairman at the time? 11 individual that, if you'll allow me, was responsible for 11 A. No. No, I was not. 12 the mechanics of the computer and his name was Ray Settle, 12 Q. So that responsibility went to somebody else? 13 S-E-T-T-L-E, I think. 13 A. Hey, boats don't sink on my shift. 14 Q. Do you know how long he was with the 14 Q. Winding them down is not easy. 15 company -- he has been with the company? 15 A. What? 16 A. Long time. My duration. Thirty years. 16 Q. Winding them down is not easy. 17 Q. Previously we talked about your testimony 17 A. I agree with that. 18 before the U.S. Congress. 18 Q. So what was -- do you recall what the entire 19 A. Uh-huh. 19 budget for LIA was while you were there, on average? 20 Q. Do you remember the specifics related to lead 20 A. Not specifically, but it would have been 21 that you testified on behalf of the Lead Industries 21 certainly in excess of a million dollars. 22 Association? 22 Q. Now, were the contributions to the LIA 23 A. I do not. 23 budgeted items at Doe Run? 24 Q. Did the Lead Industries Association select you 24 A. Yes. With one exception. If for some reason 25 as the person to testify? 25 there was necessity for a special assessment in the course 7 (Pages 22 to 25) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3 JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 26 Page 28 1 of the year, that would not have been a budgeted item 1 centralized. 2 obviously. 2 Q. And that would be entered into the computer 3 Q. How frequently were there special assessments? 3 system? 4 A. Not very often. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Who would be in charge of preparing the budget 5 Q. Who made the decision on how much to 6 for that item for Doe Run? 6 contribute to the LIA? 7 A. Dan Vornberg. And in early days, myself. 7 A. Well, in the final sense, I did. But it was a 8 Q. You said in early days. So when -- up until 8 collaborative effort as to, you know, what the necessities 9 when would you be preparing the budget for the LIA? 9 were and what obligations we had elsewhere to require 10 A. Well, after the formation of Doe Run in '86, 10 money. 11 for the first few years, Dan and I did in it concert. And 11 Q. What did the LIA do? 12 then he progressively became the more dominant and would 12 A. Said simply, it was a trade association that 13 bring it to me for review. 13 looked at the various activities of the business from 14 Q. Where were the expenditures for the LIA kept, 14 legislation to marketing -- I mean those were the two 15 where were those? 15 dominant. Health and safety of employees. 16 A. There was a charge account for the LIA. 16 Q. Did the LIA, to your knowledge, ever fund any 17 Q. And whose office would that be kept in? 17 health studies? 18 A. Well, it was an account that was in the 18 A. Well, I'm not sure. The LIA did from time to 19 general ledger. I think it was in my cost center, but I'm 19 time fund studies. Now, you say health studies. And I'm 20 not a hundred percent sure of that. 20 not a hundred percent sure what you mean when you say a 21 Q. What was that? It was in? 21 health study. 22 A. My cost center. 22 Q. Did they ever fund any studies that in any way 23 Q. And where was that? 23 discussed lead in human health? 24 A. You mean physically? 24 A. To my knowledge, not directly. To my 25 Q. Yes. 25 knowledge, not directly. Page 27 Page 29 1 A. Oh, it was within Doe Run. 1 Q. What studies were funded indirectly? 2 Q. Do you know where within Doe Run? 2 A. Well, I can remember studies coming out from 3 A. You mean physically where it was? 3 other sources. And of course in the -- in the mid '80s and 4 Q. Yeah. 4 on, you know, everybody produced a study on lead. And if a 5 A. I'm not being smart again, but where all of it 5 study had -- got enough traction, if you will, and there 6 was. I mean the accounting department was the shepherd of 6 was disagreement as to the validity of the study, then I 7 the system. 7 remember that LIA would -- would participate in hiring a 8 Q. So all of this would have been kept at the 8 third party, so-called neutral authority to review the 9 accounting department? 9 study and offer an opinion. 10 A. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 10 Q. Do you remember the names of any of these 11 Q. And would there be duplicate storage for 11 third parties that were hired by LIA to offer an opinion? 12 expenditures for the LIA or would they all just be kept at 12 A. The direct answer is no. No. 13 the accounting department? 13 Q. Who would hire third parties on behalf of LIA 14 A. You've got to ask me that again. 14 to offer an opinion? 15 Q. When you budgeted an item, did you keep 15 A. There was a -- there would be a subcommittee 16 duplicate records for it in a different department that 16 or a committee within LIA whose responsibility was that 17 authorized it or were all the records kept at the 17 area. In this case, let's say environmental. And those 18 accounting department? 18 participants of that committee would come from the 19 A. Well, when the budget was finalized, there 19 membership. And they would source the potentials and in 20 would be copies of the budget that each department head 20 some cases, it would be discussed at the directors meeting 21 would have. So in that sense, there were half a dozen 21 that, you know, there are these potential firms that could 22 copies of it in various people's hands. But as a charge 22 do it. And the committee would recommend A, instead of B, 23 was made against that account, all of those charges went 23 and A would be hired. 24 against whatever with that number was for the LIA and that 24 Q. Do you remember the name of that subcommittee? 25 got entered into the system. And in that sense, it was 25 A. I do not. I would dumbly say it was the 8 (Pages 26 to 29) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3 JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 30 Page 32 1 environmental subcommittee, but that's a guess. 1 the definition -- the legal definition of what lobbying is. 2 Q. Was anybody employed by Doe Run on that 2 But lobbying from the standpoint of, you know, did we go to 3 committee? 3 the Hill and talk to legislators, yes. 4 A. Undoubtedly. 4 Q. Did the LIA hire a professional lobbyist? 5 Q. And do you know who that would have been? 5 A. Again, we hired an individual. Was he under 6 A. My assumption would be it was Dan Vornberg. 6 the legal definition of lobbyist? I'm not sure. 7 Q. Anybody else besides Mr. Vornberg who could 7 Q. Who was that individual? 8 have represented Doe Run on that committee? 8 A. There were a couple. I can see them. Sorry. 9 A. It's possible that at various times, there 9 I cannot bring a name. At one point, and I don't know, you 10 were individuals from the divisions that might have been 10 know, the timing of it, but I believe the individual's name 11 associated with it. Were they members of the committee? I 11 was Bob Carlstrom, C-A-R-L-S-T-R-O-M. And there was 12 don't know. 12 another one, but I don't -- I cannot remember his name. 13 Q. Who from Doe Run were -- would attend LIA 13 Q. Did Doe Run hire any lobbyists in Washington? 14 meetings? 14 A. Yes. 15 A. Myself, Dan Vornberg, vice president of sales. 15 Q. When was that? 16 And on occasion, general managers of the properties to meet 16 A. Well, essentially, we had one always. Now, 17 the rest of the industry. 17 again, I'm going to quibble in terms of I don't know if 18 Q. Would you and Mr. Vornberg travel together to 18 that individual met the legal definition of lobbyist 19 the meeting? 19 because I'm not really sure what that definition is. I 20 A. Sometimes, yes; sometimes, no. 20 know there's some specifics with that word, but he did for 21 Q. And the vice president of sales was? 21 us -- you know, he would visit the offices on the Hill and 22 A. Excuse me. Richard Amistadi, A-M-I-S-T-A-D-I. 22 if there was some kind of a fund raiser or something in 23 Q. And the general manager at Herculaneum was? 23 Washington that, you know, we should have a presence at, 24 MR. ROTHSCHILD: At what time? 24 typically he would go for us. 25 Q. (By Mr. Smoger) Let me take it when you 25 Q. And who was that person? Page 31 Page 33 1 retired. 1 A. Again, Bob Carlstrom. 2 A. When I retired, it was Gary Hughes. 2 Q. So he was paid -- was he paid separately by 3 Q. And who was the general manager before 3 the LIA and Doe Run? 4 Mr. Hughes? 4 A. Yes. 5 A. Clifton Gray. 5 Q. How long was he a person that was working on 6 Q. And before Mr. Gray? 6 behalf of Doe Run? 7 A. John Fitzsimmons. John Fitzsimmons, yeah. 7 A. Bob actually worked with St. Joe before Doe 8 Q. Do you remember what years Mr. Fitzsimmons was 8 Run. So forever. 9 general manager, approximately? 9 Q. Does he still -- is he still the person? 10 A. '85 or 6 to 95. And I'm relatively sure that 10 A. He did -- he was when I left. 11 '95 is not accurate, but it's close. 11 Q. Do you know how much he's paid on average per 12 Q. Do you remember Mr. Fitzsimmons ever going to 12 year? 13 an LIA meeting with you? 13 A. No. 14 A. Not specifically, but I'm relatively sure he 14 Q. And who authorizes that expenditure? 15 did. 15 A. Well, again, I would have ultimately 16 Q. Same question for Mr. Hughes or Mr. Gray. 16 authorized it. But his reporting into the company was via 17 A. Gary Hughes only joined us just before my 17 Dan Vornberg, and to some degree, Lou Marucheau. 18 retirement. So the answer would have been no. By the time 18 Q. So basically it would be Mr. Vornberg that 19 Clifton was manager, LIA didn't exist. So the answer was 19 worked out rates and expenditures with him and it would 20 no. 20 come to you for approval? 21 Q. What was the date of your retirement? 21 MR. GIANOULAKIS: Well, I'll object to the 22 A. April 1, '06. 22 form of that question as making an assumption. 23 Q. Now, did the LIA do lobbying? 23 A. Dan would present his budget. And I can't 24 A. I'm going to split hairs with you here for a 24 tell you specifically when, but at one point, fees for 25 reason. I don't know if technically it was lobbying within 25 Carlstrom would have been in a charge account in my cost 9 (Pages 30 to 33) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3 JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 38 Page 40 1 any idea. The premise was, I'm sure, we're helping to 1 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're off the record at 2 maintain our history. 2 10:31. 3 Q. Do you know if those records were open to the 3 (Whereupon there was a short break.) 4 public? 4 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're on the record at 5 A. I do not. I personally never seen them, never 5 10:54. 6 had anything to do with them. I just know it was done. 6 Q. (By Mr. Smoger) The last place that you talked 7 Q. Do you know who did it? 7 about things being at were you said in the basement of Park 8 A. No. It would have been in St. Joe, a long 8 270? 9 time before Doe Run. 9 A. Yes. The St. Louis offices are -- I think 10 Q. Now, you said that some are off site in a 10 it's 1801 Park 270 Drive. 11 warehouse in St. Louis. Do you know who would be in charge 11 Q. And do you know what's stored there? 12 of that off-site facility? 12 A. No, I do not. 13 A. I do not. I gather it's a warehouse that 13 Q. And have you had occasion -- Strike that. 14 stores that kind of stuff, but that's the extent of -- you 14 Do you know if anybody checked that storage 15 know, I know periodically, I would hear comments about 15 area for documents related to this litigation? 16 somebody going to the warehouse to look for stuff. What 16 A. I do not. 17 they were looking for, where they went, I don't know. 17 Q. Did you assign anybody to search for documents 18 Q. Would the maintenance of that warehouse be a 18 related to the litigation? 19 budgeted item? 19 A. I did not. 20 A. I have no recollection of it being a budgeted 20 Q. Do you know who searched for documents related 21 item. Obviously somebody must pay for the warehouse 21 to this litigation? 22 storage. I don't know. I don't know. 22 A. Well, as I said, the only person that I've 23 Q. Now, in the -- now, besides the off-site 23 been told is the little lady that's a paralegal. 24 warehouse storage, do you have any idea one way or the 24 Q. And is she somebody that works for your 25 other whether the off-site warehouse in St. Louis was 25 in-house counsel or for Lewis, Rice and Fingersh? Page 39 Page 41 1 checked for documents related to this litigation? 1 A. No. She works for Doe Run. 2 A. I do not. 2 Q. Do you know her name? 3 Q. Now, you also mentioned that there was a vault 3 A. I'm sorry. I don't. 4 area in the old Viburnum offices. What records would be 4 Q. How many paralegals work for Doe Run? 5 kept there? 5 A. When I left, one. 6 A. When we ran out of room in St. Louis in the 6 Q. And how many attorneys? 7 current offices, the -- there were certain things that 7 A. In-house, one. 8 accounting said, you know, we've got to keep these for a 8 Q. That wasn't a very good question. But you 9 thousand years or something. And if you didn't have enough 9 answered it correctly. 10 room in the St. Louis office, you put them in a van and you 10 A. Okay. 11 took them to Viburnum. 11 Q. That's what I meant to ask. 12 Q. Do you know how much material was at Viburnum? 12 When you testified before congress, was the 13 A. I do not. 13 testimony -- Strike that. 14 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: 30 seconds. 14 When you testified before congress, did you 15 Q. (By Mr. Smoger) But that would be an excess 15 prepare the testimony or was it prepared on your behalf by 16 site for things you no longer wanted to store in St. Louis? 16 someone else? 17 A. Yes. Because we only had X amount of storage 17 A. It was a collaboration. 18 space in St. Louis and it would fill up and current stuff 18 Q. And who would work on the testimony with you? 19 was kept in St. Louis and the more distant stuff was moved 19 A. The -- the attorney that was involved with LIA 20 to Viburnum. 20 and the individual that represented us, if that's the right 21 Q. So as things filled up in St. Louis, you'd say 21 way to say it, in Washington. 22 send it out to Viburnum? 22 Q. And do you know who either of these people 23 A. Yes. 23 were? 24 MR. SMOGER: We're going to take a short 24 A. The attorney was Ed Sieger, I believe. That's 25 pause. 25 close. And the other individual would be this man that I 11 (Pages 38 to 41) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3 JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 42 Page 44 1 can't remember his name and/or Bob Carlstrom. 1 any trade associations currently? 2 Q. Now, you mentioned certain independent people 2 A. Well, I can't speak currently. 3 would be hired to speak about studies that had come out. 3 Q. Well, as of the time you left? 4 Would those have included studies by Needleman? 4 A. Dan was involved in an international -- 5 A. Yes. 5 unfortunately, I can't tell you the name of it, but it was 6 Q. Are you familiar with studies by Needleman? 6 an international organization of mining companies. That's 7 A. Yes. 7 about what I can tell you. 8 Q. And would you know -- would you recall who was 8 Q. Do you know when that was established? 9 contracted with to look at the right about the Needleman 9 A. Mid '90s. 10 studies? 10 Q. Do you know what his position with that 11 A. I don't remember names but there were three 11 association was? 12 ladies that were -- and I don't know whether they worked 12 A. I don't know that he held an office. He was 13 together or they worked separately. But I remember three 13 just our representative to it. 14 women who were -- did the review. 14 Q. Do you know if he's ever held any offices in 15 Q. And they would have gotten payment from the 15 any trade associations? 16 LIA to do this review? 16 A. My belief is he has not. 17 A. Yes. Yes. 17 Q. Do you know if anybody else at Doe Run has 18 Q. Do you know where they were located? 18 held any offices in any trade associations? 19 A. I think they were located in Triangle Park, 19 A. Richard Amistadi, the vice president of sales, 20 Raleigh, Durham. Was that North Carolina or South 20 was an officer in LIA before it ceased to exist. 21 Carolina? Wherever that is. 21 Q. Who was chair during the demise? 22 Q. Did anyone -- Strike that. 22 A. I think Dick was, Richard. I think so. 23 Did Doe Run ever pay for people to look at -- 23 Q. Now, have you ever testified before the EPA? 24 independently to look at health studies? 24 A. No. 25 A. I'm not sure they were health studies. But we 25 Q. Do you know if anybody has -- from Doe Run has Page 43 Page 45 1 have hired on occasion people to review data. 1 testified before the EPA? 2 Q. And who would they have been; do you remember 2 A. It's my belief that no one has. 3 any of them? 3 Q. Do you know if Ira Rennert hires any lobbyists 4 A. One was a lady, a woman. That helps you a 4 in Washington? 5 lot, doesn't it? 5 A. I do not know. 6 Q. You got me halfway there. 6 Q. Have you ever testified at any administrative 7 A. Terry Bowers. Terry Bowers? Geri Bowers. 7 hearings? 8 Something like that. And others that I don't remember 8 A. You've got to help me out there. 9 their names. 9 Q. Have you ever testified before any 10 Q. And what did Geri Bowers get hired to review? 10 governmental agency, federal or state? And I'm 11 A. I think in her case, it had to do with 11 distinguishing that from the legislatures. 12 something involving the environmental impact of emissions 12 A. No. 13 at Herculaneum. But unfortunately, I can't remember more 13 Q. Do you know if anybody from Doe Run, including 14 specificity than that. 14 Mr. Vornberg, has? 15 Q. Was that for in-house use by Doe Run or for 15 A. It's my belief no one has. 16 her to publish? 16 Q. Have you ever testified in Missouri at the 17 A. No. I think it would have been for in-house 17 legislature? 18 use by Doe Run. 18 A. Say that again. 19 Q. Did Doe Run ever pay for somebody to publish 19 Q. Have you ever appeared before the legislature 20 anything? 20 in the State of Missouri? 21 A. Not to my recollection. 21 A. No. 22 Q. Is there any organization that succeeded the 22 Q. So the only government testimony to any 23 LIA? 23 governmental organization that you've ever given are the 24 A. No, not to my knowledge. 24 three to six times you've testified at U.S. Congress? 25 Q. Do you know if Dan Vornberg's involved with 25 A. Yes. 12 (Pages 42 to 45) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3 JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 46 Page 48 1 Q. Do you know if Mr. Vornberg has ever testified 1 Q. So you're still doing iron at Meramec at this 2 before the U.S. Congress? 2 time? 3 A. I do not know. But I don't believe he has. 3 A. Yes. Yes. 4 Q. Anybody else from Doe Run that's ever 4 Q. It's just whatever happened upstairs is what 5 testified? 5 changed it? 6 A. Not to my knowledge. 6 A. Yes, yes, yes. 7 Q. Now, let me go back to your history. Where 7 Q. But your job hasn't changed at all? 8 did you go to school? 8 A. Essentially, no. 9 A. Missouri Steel Mines and Metallurgy. 9 Q. How long did you continue in that job? 10 Q. You wanted to do this real early? 10 A. '79, '80. '79 or '80. 11 A. I'm sorry? 11 Q. And what did you do then? 12 Q. You wanted to get into this field real early? 12 A. I went to or came to St. Louis to the St. Joe 13 A. Yes. Yes. 13 corporate offices for corporate exposure. 14 Q. And when did you start attending that school? 14 Q. And whose idea was that? 15 A. 1962. 15 A. The president of St. Joe Lead. John Wright 16 Q. And what was your first job? 16 was his name. 17 A. I was a junior engineer, junior mining 17 Q. So this was after the zinc and lead had been 18 engineer. Which meant a mining engineer without a degree. 18 split apart? 19 Q. And where was that? 19 A. Yes. 20 A. At a mine called Meramec Mining Company in 20 Q. So how long did -- 21 Sullivan, Missouri. 21 A. Was I exposed? 22 Q. And what did they mine for? 22 Q. Yeah. How long were you exposed? I was 23 A. Iron ore. 23 trying to avoid that. 24 Q. How long did you work for them? 24 A. I couldn't resist it. I'm sorry, Andy. 25 A. More than 10, less than 15 years. 25 MR. ROTHSCHILD: It's okay. Page 47 Page 49 1 Q. So that would be until sometime in the '70s? 1 A. Two years. More than a year, less than two 2 A. Yes, yes. 2 years. 3 Q. Approximately when in the '70s did you leave 3 Q. (By Mr. Smoger) So -- and what was your 4 there? 4 position? Did you have a position? 5 A. Well, I know that precisely. '77. So I guess 5 A. I don't know what it was. 6 that makes it ten years, doesn't it? '67 to '77. 6 Q. You were just being exposed? 7 Q. Yeah. And what did you do from '62 to '67? 7 A. I was being exposed. To my knowledge, I 8 A. You name it. I was the junior man on the 8 didn't have a position. I had a little closet though that 9 totem pole and whatever anybody else didn't want to do, I 9 I could go in. 10 did. 10 Q. You did that a couple years. Then what did 11 Q. Did you have any military service? 11 you do? 12 A. No, I did not. 12 A. I'm sorry? 13 Q. Now, in '77, what did you do? 13 Q. Then what did you do after -- 14 A. Meramec was closed and the ownership reverted 14 A. I was sent to Viburnum to the mining division. 15 to St. Joe and I went to work for St. Joe at Meramec. 15 Q. And how long were you in Viburnum? 16 Q. You said reverted. Was that a subsidiary? 16 A. About two years. Was a pattern developing 17 A. It was a joint venture with Bethlehem Steel. 17 here? 18 Q. So at that time -- so then you moved off the 18 Q. So there were -- now we're about to '83? 19 joint venture and directly to St. Joe's? 19 A. That's about right. '82, '83. 20 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what did you do in Viburnum? 21 Q. And who was your supervisor at St. Joe's? 21 A. I was assistant general manager. 22 A. The general manager's name was John 22 Q. And then from Viburnum? 23 Schoolcraft. I reported to him. 23 A. I was sent to California. 24 Q. Where was that? 24 Q. And now we're at Grass Valley? 25 A. In Sullivan or outside of Sullivan, Missouri. 25 A. We're just below Grass Valley, ves. 13 (Pages 46 to 49) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3 JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 74 Page 76 1 on those? 1 A. Yeah. I remember other depositions, but I -- 2 A. It's my recollection, yes. 2 you know, they didn't stick in my mind obviously. 3 Q. And do you remember who -- 3 Q. Do you remember the person that was asking you 4 A. Excuse me. 4 questions that you couldn't stand so you kept -- stayed in 5 Q. -- at Fluor was in that signing process? 5 your memory afterwards? 6 A. I don't specifically, but I would -- I'm 6 A. I've met very few people I couldn't stand. 7 pretty sure it would have been Vince Kotney or Les McCraw. 7 Q. Okay. But you don't remember being involved 8 Q. Now, when that signing process occurred, how 8 in any depositions related to lead contamination from 9 would the request for authorization be communicated to 9 Herculaneum? 10 Fluor; would they be faxed to them or how would they get it 10 A. I do not. I'm sorry. 11 to sign off onto it? 11 Q. No, don't be sorry. I'mjust trying to know 12 A. Well, they would have received a hard copy. 12 if that happened. 13 It would -- the official copy would have been -- would not 13 A. No, I don't. I don't remember that. 14 have been faxed. It would have been mailed to them. 14 Q. What was your secretary's last name? 15 Q. And they would -- but it would be mailed and 15 A. When? 16 they would have a copy? 16 Q. Somebody's been down this road before. Did 17 A. Yes. And they would sign or not sign, you 17 she ever change it while she was with you? 18 know, whichever they chose. 18 A. Yes, she did. 19 Q. Were their signatures required in order to 19 Q. And how do you spell it, whatever her name is 20 authorize a budgeted item? Did you have an authority 20 now? I'm not going to get into Laurel and Hardy. 21 level? 21 A. S-H-A-W. 22 A. Yes. Yes. 22 Q. S-H-A-W. And how -- and before? 23 Q. And what was the authority level? 23 A. I'm sorry? 24 A. I don't remember. It was -- I don't remember. 24 Q. What was her last name before that? 25 Q. But above whatever authority level there was, 25 A. M -- Cap, M-C, capital P-E-A-K. Page 75 Page 77 1 you had to get signatures? 1 Q. Was there one before that? 2 A. Correct. Correct. Correct. 2 A. There was, but I didn't know him. 3 MR. SMOGER: Let's take a short break. 3 Q. Okay. Now, are you familiar with an 4 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're off the record at 4 organization which has for its initials I-L-Z-R-O? 5 11:52. 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 (Whereupon there was a lunch break.) 6 Q. What is that? 7 THE VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're on the record at 7 A. That's ILZRO. 8 1:14. 8 Q. What does ILZRO stand for? 9 Q. (By Mr. Smoger) I started to ask you about 9 A. International Lead/Zinc Research Organization. 10 depositions you were in and I didn't complete asking you. 10 Q. Have you ever been a member of that? 11 We talked about the first two which is a worker's comp and 11 A. As Doe Run, yes. 12 then the second one which is in St. Louis. And the second 12 Q. Okay. So it's a company membership? 13 one you, at least remember, was while you were still at 13 A. Yes. 14 Grass Valley. What's the next one you remember after that? 14 Q. Did you attend meetings? 15 A. I don't remember any details. I just remember 15 A. Probably. 16 there were others. 16 Q. Anybody else from your -- from Doe Run attend 17 Q. Were they related generally about lead? 17 meetings with ILZRO? 18 A. I honestly don't remember. Sorry. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. Do you remember if it involved anybody 19 Q. Who would that be? 20 that got injured? 20 A. Dan Vornberg, Dick Amistadi -- Richard 21 A. That doesn't ring a bell. Maybe if you give 21 Amistadi. 22 me some more, I can. 22 Q. Was that associated in any way with the LIA or 23 Q. Well, I don't know what they were, but I'm 23 was that entirely separate? 24 just trying to explore. You know, you said three to six 24 A. It was an entirely separate organization. 25 times. 25 Q. What types of things did ILZRO do? 20 (Pages 74 to 77) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3 JEFFREY L. ZELMS 9/26/2006 Page 78 Page 80 1 A. It was an organization established to, as the 1 Q. Well, let me -- yeah. My question was 2 name implies, do research work for the lead and zinc 2 somewhat unfair. 3 industry. 3 Did the entire room circle with file cabinets? 4 Q. What type of research? 4 A. Yeah. They were on four walls and a bank down 5 A. They covered the waterfront. Market 5 the center. 6 development, studies of, for instance, lead acid batteries 6 Q. And essentially the secretaries took care of 7 used for motive power purposes, galvanizing for zinc, that 7 what went into the central files? 8 kind of stuff. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did Doe Run contribute money to ILZRO? 9 Q. Did you have an office manager for the central 10 A. Yes, we did. 10 file? 11 Q. On average, how much per year? 11 A. Did not. Didn't believe in them. 12 A. Well, again, I can't tell you specifically, 12 Q. So it was basically -- well, you had a 13 but it would have been tens of thousands of dollars a year. 13 secretary? 14 Q. Who would write the budgeting request for that 14 A. Yes. 15 money? 15 Q. Did you share your secretary? 16 A. I will tell you it was a collaboration between 16 A. Early on, no. In -- as I started to 17 Dick Amistadi and Dan Vornberg. 17 transition out, yes. 18 Q. And that would be something that eventually 18 Q. So basically for most of the period that you 19 you'd have to sign off on? 19 held your job, you weren't sharing one? 20 A. Yes, sir. 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Where would documents related to ILZRO be 21 Q. How about Dan Vornberg; did he have a 22 kept? 22 secretary? 23 A. In the St. Louis office. 23 A. He had a secretary that he shared with Lou 24 Q. And is there a general file or in one of Dick 24 Marucheau. 25 Amistadi's or Dan Vornberg's office? 25 Q. And what's the name of that secretary? Page 79 Page 81 1 A. I don't know. I assume both. 1 A. Maria Thompson, I believe. 2 Q. I'm trying to figure out, you know, how the 2 Q. How long was she there? 3 layout of the office is. 3 A. I want to tell you five years. 4 A. Yeah. 4 Q. And that would be the most recent five years? 5 Q. Was there a central filing area? 5 A. Yes. Yes. 6 A. Yes, there was. 6 Q. Do you know who she replaced? 7 Q. And then in addition to a central filing area, 7 A. I do not remember. 8 did -- each person that had an office there would have 8 Q. Did Dan Vornberg always share a secretary with 9 their own personal files? 9 the in-house counsel? 10 A. Yes. 10 A. That's my belief. 11 Q. Would the central filing area duplicate what 11 Q. Now, these are downtown St. Louis offices, 12 was in the offices or was there a system as to what would 12 correct? 13 go where? 13 A. Well, West County. 14 A. I am of a belief that there was a system, but 14 Q. West County? 15 I don't know what the system was. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Would that be up to your secretary for you in 16 Q. Now, in the West County offices, how many 17 terms of where -- 17 people had offices there? 18 A. It would have been up to the secretaries. But 18 A. Less than 30. 19 what got put in the central file area as opposed to the 19 Q. And about how many secretaries were there for 20 individual file areas, I don't know. 20 the office, just approximately? 21 Q. How large is the central file area? 21 A. Half a dozen. 22 A. A room this size. 22 Q. So the -- and they would decide and you left 23 Q. Is it all files? 23 it to them to decide on the filing system for everyone? 24 A. I've been in the room. I never opened all the 24 A. Yeah. It's my belief that in this central 25 drawers. The drawers I saw open had files in them. 25 room, there were kind of assigned areas. You know, you had 21 (Pages 78 to 81) MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES www.midwestlitigation.com Phone: 1.800.280.DEPO(3376) Fax: 314.644.1334 1619d654-58f5-4cd4-9756-e7a77f693dc3