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FILE NAME: National Safety Council (NSC) DATE: 1939 Oct DOC#: NSC201 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Excerpt - Transactions of the NSC - 28th National Safety Congress ATLANTIC CITY OCTOBER 16*20, 1939 NATIONAL SAFETY COUNCIL, INC. Copyright, 193?. National Safety Council, Inc. Printed In U. S. A. s. Foreword THE Transactions of the 28th National Safety Congress and Exposition of the National Safety Council, October 16-20, 1939, are published in two volumes. Volume I con tains the general and subject sessions and the sessions of the various Industrial Sections. Volume II contains the Street and Highway traffic, the Commercial Vehicle, the Transit, the Child Education, and the Home Safety sessions. Volume I is distributed automatically to all industrial mem bers of the Council. Volume II is sent to members who are believed to be interested chiefly in the sessions it contains. However, other Council members may obtain Volume II upon request. .Many members have found it of benefit to distribute copies of the Transactions volumes to both executives, foremen and supervisors, who have used the practical information they contain in safety programs and for general reference pur poses. Extra copies of the Transactions may be obtained as follows : One to 10 copies of Vol. I, at $2 each ; 11 or more copies, $1.75 each. Extra copies of Vol. II cost 75 cents each. THE Transactions are a condensed record of the pro ceedings of the Congress. The papers and addresses have been edited to delete extraneous matter, abbreviate the less important portions, and emphasize what may be of particular usefulness in promoting effective safety organization and . other accident prevention measures. These volumes, there fore, are a somewhat abridged version, compact, practical and of particular value to the student and executive inter ested in achieving more thorough accident prevention suc cess. The original manuscripts are available for additional reference, if desired, in the files of the National Safety Council. THE National Safety Council, at its Congresses, seeks to eliminate 'from discussion matters which are not pertinent to the aims of the Congress or which may be contrary to the Council's policies, ft cannot accept responsibility, however, for all views expressed either in the papers which have been | delivered or in the discussions based upon these papers. ! N A T I O N A L S A F E T Y C O U N C IL , Inc. 20 North W acker Drive Chicago Council Officers and Directors...................................... 4 Council Purposes and Program................... 9 Annual Meeting of Members....................................... . 11 Annual B a n q u et................... 27 Special Subject Sessions-- Eliminating Mechanical Causes of Accidents. .. 29 Fire Control and Prevention.................................. 43 Fumes, Gases and Vapors. ..................................... 55 Governmental Safety Service in Industry.......... 69 Health Service in Industry...................................... 93 Industrial Nursing ................. ... . .........................109 Maintaining Interest in S afety...............................123 Occupational Disease Control.................. 133 Off-the-Job Accidents .............................................149 Safety Inspectors .................................................... 163 The Human Side of S a fe ty .......... ........................ 181 Welding and Cutting........ .-..................................... 203 Aeronautical Section ................ 225 A. S. S. E . --Engineering S ectio n ., .............................. 239 Automotive and Machine'Shop S eitio n .......................245 Cement and Quarry Section.......... j ...............................259 Chemical Section ............................ / .............................. 273 Construction Section ..................'.I................. ,. ...........299 Food S e c tio n .................................... 319 Marine Section ................................i ................................339 Meat Packing, Tanning and Leather Industries Section ............................................................................ 391 Metals Section ................ } ........... ............................407 Mining Section . . ' ............................................................ 449 Paper and Pulp-Section.................................................... 477 Petroleum Section ............................................................ 531 Power Press Section...........................................................567 Public U tilities Section.....................................................581 Refrigeration Section ...................................... .607 Rubber Section ....................................... 623 Steam Railroad Section.................................................... 645 Textile S e c tio n ................................................... 677 Wood Products S ettion .................................................... 693 Safety Exposition Exhibitors......................... 715 Index ................. 719 National Safety Council, Inc. HONORARY MEMBERS Association of I ron and S tkf.i. E xoinkers Robert W . Campbell Lew R. P ai.mer OFFICERS (1939-1940) Coe. J ohn S tilwell. President H. J. A i.drich, Vice-President l'or Safety Councils L. C. Campbell, Vice-President for Industrial Safety VV.\t. C. K noelk, \ rice-President for Education Dr. M iller M cClintock, Vice-President for Public Safety I. VV. M iu .ard, Vice-President for Finance and T re a s u r e r W alter S. P aint, Vice-President for Engineering Lew R. P almer, Vice-President for Public Relations A. V. Rouwedkr, Vice-President for Home Safety R. T . Soi.f.nsten, Vice-President for Membership W . H. C ameron, Managing Director and Secretary EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE (1939-1940) II. J. A ldrich, Spencer Kellogg & Sons, Inc. J. I. Banash, Past President C. W . B ercqlist, P ast President H. VV. Boggess, Sinclair Pra irie Oil Co. H. E. Bolt, South Bend Civic Safety Council F. VV. B raun, A SSE-Enginecring Section VV. H. Cameron, National Safety Council L. C. Campbell, T h e Koppers Coal Company R. VV. Campbell, P a st President Robert I. Catlix, Aetna Casualty & Surety Co. D. B. Chant, Paper and Pulp Section L ewis A. D eBlois, P a st President C. VV. D kmi'Esy, The Liquid Carbonic Corp. C. R. D ooley, Soconv-Vacuum Oil Co. Inc. M arcus A. I low. Past President H arold F. lisi.n u s , American National Red Cross D. D. F ennell, Past President H. J. Griffith, Metals Section E. E. G rover, CoUnnlm- & Southern Ohio Electric Co. H arry G uh.bert, T h e Pullman Co. G. T . H f.u .muth, Chicago Rapid Transit Co. H arold G. H offman, Unemployment Compensation Comm, o f N. J. S. B. H ourki.i , T h e Carey Salt Co. VV. F loyd J ackson, Delaw are Safety Council 4 OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS, Continued W alter G. K ing, P ast President VVm. C. K noei.k, Milwaukee Safety Commission J ohn E. Long, P a s t President T hos. H. M acD onald, Federal Public Roads Administration R. A. M cA rthur, Public Service Coordinated T ransport D r. M iller M cC untock, Yale University I. W. M illaru, Industrial Gloves Co. H arold L. M iner, E . I. dit P o n t de N emours & Co. H on. E liot N ess, D irector o f Public Safety, Cleveland C. J. Nobmann, Petroleum Section E. J. O 'B rien, J r., Louisville S afety Council W alter S. P aine, A etn a L ife & Affiliated Cos. L ew R. P almer, P a st President C. E. P etti honk, P a s t President B. O. P ickard, M arine Section 1 A lbert S. R egula, Industrial Relations Counselors, Inc. R. J. Reigei.uth, Construction Section Lt. Col. H enry A. R eningkk, P a s t President E. A. Roberts, T e x ti le Section A. V. Rohweder, Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range Ry. Co. Charles B. S cott, P a s t P r e s i d e n t ' F rank T. S heets, Portland Cement Association Gen. J ohn H. S herburne, Massachusetts Safety Council Carl L. S mith, Cleveland S afety Council C. R. S mith, American A ir Lines! Inc. R. T. S olensten, Elliott Service fco. L eslie J. S orenson, City Traffic Engineer, Chicago Col. J ohn Stilwell, Consolidated Edison Company of N ew Inc. j J ohn M. S ylvester, Lehigh Valley Safety Council C. P. T olman, P a s t President George G. T raver, G reater Chicago Safety Council D r. C. H . W atson, P a s t Presid ent A. W. W hitney, National Conservation Bureau R. V. W right, Railway Age A rthur H . Young, P a s t Presiden t York. DIRECTORS (1939-1940) H. J. A ldrich, Spencer Kellogg & Sons, Inc. A. L. A rmstrong, E a stm a n K o d ak Company Vern W . Aubel, Safety Div., Syracuse Chamber o f J. I. Banash, P a st President D. A. Barrett, Carnegie-Illinois Steel Corp. L eo H . B eaulac, Blackstone Valley Safety Council E rnest W . Beck, United States Rubber Co. C. W . Bercijuist, P a s t President E. F. Blank, Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp. H . W . Boggess, S in clair P ra i rie Oil Co. H. E. Bolt, S o u th I^end Civic S afety Council Commerce s OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS, Continued C. H. lion.i.i, Wisconsin Public Service Corp. J . C. Bower, 'Automotive and Machine Shop Section F. W. Braun, ASSE-Eugiueenng Section J oseph A. Rrophy, Elizabeth Safety Council !'. S. Brown, Standard Accident Insurance Co. P. N. LVsh neu., Cement Section VV. H. C ameron. National Safety Council A. D. C ampbell, Mining Section L. C. C ampbell, T h e Koppers Coal Co. R o a r e r W. C amphit.i., Past President R aymond A. C arey, Evanston S afety Council R ay Carney, Kenosha Safety Council Robert I. t 'atux, Aetna Casualty & Surety Co. IT H. Ci i w t , Patter and Pulp Section W m. M. C i.ark, St. Joseph Safety Council Kenneth 11. Cot.man, Seattle Traffic & Safety Council I. E. Ci t.uNi.Y, Bethlehem Steel Co. "Lewis A. D eBeois, Past President C. \V. I H mpesy, T h e Liquid Carbonic Corp. Milton W. D obkzensky, E a st Bay Safety Council C. R. Dooi.ey, Socony-Vacutim Oil Co. Inc. James R. 1Iougeas, T he Philadelphia Ga W o rk s Co. Marcus A. Dow, Past President H AKoi.it I". E neows, American N ational Red Cross P- D. Kinnf.ee, P ast President Donald A. Einkbeinkr, Toledo S afety Council Pit. I I akt E. F isher. Chicago Rapid:Transit Co. Victor 1!. F itzpatrick, Richmond Safety Council Howard 11. Foniia, Burroughs Wellcome i t Co. (U S A ) Inc. W m. II. Forsyth, Superior & Douglas County Stiffly Conned Arthur l \ F ry, W orcester Safety Council J ohn II. G ibson, Western Electric Co. L vi.k II. Gift, Peoria Association o f Commerce Safety Council Randolph L. G ieman, R ahway S afety Council \V. A. G riffin, American Telephone & Telegraph Co. H. J. G riffith, Metals Section E. E. G rover, Columbus & S outhern Ohio Electric Co. H arry Gi 'h.rf.rt, T he Pullman Company D. T. H arrington, U. S. Bureau o f Mines F rank It. H arrison, International H arvester Co. G. T . Hi.i emuth, Chicago Rapid T ransit Co. E. L. 11i nky, Strain Railroad Section J . C. H erbert, Greater Los Angeles S afetj Council Chas. K. H iee, N ew York Central System Hafold G. H off.ua.v, Unemployment Compensation Commission, New Jersey P aul H o u \ nd, Baltimore Safety Council J. A ndrew I I oeley, Child Education Section S, B. H orkf.ee, The Carey Salt Co. M ajor N orman A. I mrik, Safety Council o f Columbus Chamber ot Commerce t 6 V OFHCERS AND DIRECTORS, Continued M errick J ackson, Employees' Publication Section W. F loyd J ackson, Delaware Safety Council VVm. F. J ames, Philadelphia S afety Council J asper B. J ohnson, Madison County Safety Council T. B. J ohnson, Commercial Vehicle Section F rank L. J ones. G reater New York Safety Council T homas P. Kearns, Ohio Industrial Commission R alph O. K eefer, Chemical Section H. H. KEt.t.Y, U. S. fnterstate Commerce Commission W alter G. K inc, P a st President VVm. C. K noei.k, Milwaukee Safety Commission VVm. S. K nudsen, Detroit Industrial Safety Council O tto C. K uhrt, Greater Sprint;field Safety Council C. I - L aF ountaine, Great N o rth e r n Railway Co. Roy L ee, Contra Costa .County S afety Council A rnold L ockf.rby, Grand Rapids S afety Council J ohn E. L ong, P ast President Titos. H. M acDonald, Federal Public Roads Administration H on. A rthur VV. M agee, N ew Jersey Commissioner o f M o to r V e hicles D ennis J. M aley, Safety Bureau, Buffalo Chamber o f Commerce R. A. M cA rthur, Public Service Coordinated T ra n s p o r t H. N. M cCi.ellan, Berkeley Traffic Safety Commission Dr\u__. _M_rillSetr__M_.c_Cunr>t, orck, Yalei Univ/e--rsity . I I arry S. Moody, Rochester'Safety Council R. B. Morley, Industrial Accident Prevention Associations R. VV. M ouse, -Rubber Suction! C. L. M urray, Mason Citv-Gcrro Gordo County S a fe ty Council H on. E liot N ess, Director o f Public Safety. Cleveland C. J. Noi-.mann, Petroleum Section E. J. O 'Brien, J r., Louisville S afety Council G eorge C. A. O pe, The Detroit E dison Company W aiter S. P aine, Aetna Lifei& Affiliated Companies L ew R. P almer, Past President David A. P atton, N ewark S afety Council C. K. P eacock, Chattanooga S afety Council C harles VV. P endock, Safety Division, Milwaukee Association of Commerce C. K. P etthione. Past President B. O . P ickard, Marine Section J udge H arry H . P orter, S treet & H ig hw ay Traffic Section H. A. P tolemy, Public Lltilitics Section A. A. R all, Refrigeration Section A lbert S. R ecula, Industrial Relations Counselors, Inc. R. J. Keigelutii, Construction Section L t. Col. H enry A. R enincek, P a s t P resid ent M arinus Ritf.r, Paterson Safety Council E. A. Roberts, Textile Section / 7 N OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS, Continued A. V. komvKDKR, Duluth, Missahe & Iron Range Ry. Co. G. E.'S anford, General Electric Company H enry G. S ciiafknkr, Meat Packing. Tanning & Leather Industries Section H arry E. S ciikark, Kansas City Safety Council Chari.es B. S cott, P a st President E arl S. S hartzer, Utica Safety Council F rank T. S heets, Portland Cement Association G en. J ohn H. S herburne, Massachusetts-Safety Council ' D r. L. A. S houdy, Bethlehem Steel Company f E rnest L. S imondp, N ew Haven Safety Council Adolph S kinner, Safety Dept., Nashville Chamber of Commerce C arl L. S mith, Cleveland Safety Council C. R. S mith, American A ir Lines, Inc. R. T. S olensten, Elliott Service Company .Leslie J. S orf.nson, City Traffic Engineer, Chicago E. C. S pring, Philadelphia, Pa. Col. J ohn Stilwf.ll, Consolidated Edison Company of N. Y. Inc. E dmund C. Stone, Western Pennsylvania Safety Council J ohn M. Sylvester, Lehigh Valley Safety Council A rthur M. T odf., Consulting Marine Engineer C. P. T olman, P a s t President George G. T raver, Greater Chicago Safely Council D r. B. L. V oskurgh, General Electric Company Du. C. H. W atson, Past President F red A. W ere, Food Section G. W ise W escott, Safety Dept., Automobile Club of Rhode Island T. A nglin W hite, Safety Div.. Birmingham Chamber of Commerce S. E. W hiting, Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. A. W. W hitney, National Conservation Bureau J. C. W ilson, W ood Products Section A. N. W oodhead, A lbany Safety Council W. E. W orth, International Harvester Co. K. V. W right, Railway Age A rthur H. Young, P ast President E. J. Zauft, Safety Bureau, Duluth. Chamber o f Commerce i f . R. Zelder, Pow er Press Section The National 1 proat. cooperative live is the elicv achieve this objec the following prer 1. CREATING TV. People will only u ken they things: (a) that ' oo5 problem, threa industrial rffid erCo) that accidents tha: each one Lcause*: (c) that aThe basic requirefrc ita ia thtrefori itctive pre*ecUlscr ami more people. 2 FINDING A Accident causes stwo plants, in a r schools. They are tre e to /aodber. every dry. every pci-fic or jertase crust `tody tie ca c n yrocna so tsa ways wi3 he resjcosilie joraco;' J m a in ta in : ' SAFETY- fta q i: re an?x> diswairn to*ty fgtnm i-di .-T c-f x ie rewstpomc - x saaiK, iic &*> idtxr ertWvtaM&ic.: mg die oaka^.tft a e a a en ttea c^ frecaam .timmarair' rattans. xtud tfiattx* me ctfyy c i& itp : jtx n y * i n miCigp3#. a sound unit ^operating ' 'i a strip film projector, v or may not be autouzed to the sound record. --"mbinations of. the t'ore^ J T h e opaque projector a slide unit and the ic may be readily adapted -slides. rejector, the basic goverti- io be presented. Pictures, us. the audience or the size . iom in which it is to be ; lamp housing and sub- i of items 1 and 2 usually and type projector neccsvses a combination unit is merest of greater flexibil be necessary to procure different focal length for -ticularly if a variety of . encountered. The shorter ecn the projector and the r the focal length of the or the average projector, ejection lenses are usually >f portability is more or >ry and is governed almost ,il situation. T o o much in bility and projection power arrificcd to portability. I ^ w e r of a projector lamp jp e d below 200 watts. twer, my preference is for a projector bulb of from A size larger than this il power circuit which may vhere needed. Tn projectors bulbs larger than 300 watts f forced d raft ventilation ' Otherwise damage to the , - being projected is almost u too, the bulb itself may \cessive heat. Occupational Disease Control ~ THURSDAY MORNING SESSION October 19, 1939 The session planned tor the discussion of problems in industrial occupational disease control was called to order by A. S. Johnson. A ssistant to th e M anager, Engineering Department, American Mu tual-Liability Insurance Company, Bos-ton. Mass., w ho presided. T he problems were presented as a panel discussion, and Chairman Johnson introduced the mem bers of the panel, as follows: Roy S. Bonsib, Chief Safety Inspector, Standard Oil Company of New Jersey, New York City. W arren A. Cook, Division of Industrial Hygiene and Engineering Research, Zurich General Accident & Liability In surance Company, Chicago. Dr. A. G. Cranch, Industrial Toxicology Uepartment, Union Carbide Company, New York City. Dr. Leonard Greenburg, Executive Di rector. Division of Industrial Hygiene, New York Slate Department of Labor, New York City. Willis G. Hazard, Personnel Division, Owens-Illinois Glass Company, Toledo, O. Dr. E. G. Mcitcr, Director, Industrial Hygiene Laboratory, Employers Mutual Liability Insurance Company, Wausau. Wis. Dr. O. A. Sander. Milwaukee. Wis. The' Discussion Plan C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : W e have agreed to have a working base from which we will talk. T h is w orking base from which we will try to develop our opinions is what I choose to call a triangle of responsibiltv, visualizing what may be called the three A. B. C.'s of an equilateral tri angle. At the top of this triangle is manage ment of an industrial enterprise, the man who has to pay the bills, the man who hires the labor, the man who worries about their health. On the left base is the medi- . cal side. They are the group employed to carry out the medicai part of industrial m a n a g e m e n t's responsibility. A nd on the lower right is the third base of this tri angle where we find the engineers or in dustrial hygienists, who have to develop and prepare for the operating group the controls of occupational disease, as far as engineering is concerned with controlling them. Now. there is a strong tie between the medical and the engineering phases through that base line of the triangle. W h at we hope to do in discussing each topic is to develop that tie. which we wjll call the balance of opinion between the medical phases developed by the doctors on m y left, and the engineering phases de veloped by the engineers on my right. I would like to ask this panel a ques tion. F or a great many years occupational hazards have been studied in one indus try or another. Y 'ouid this panel feel, let us say. sanguine that any industrial enter prise i- now ready, by employing proper personnel, by searching out the answers w herever they may lie found, to solve an occupational disease problem ii they have one, and by the proper solution maintain the safety and health of the employees? P u t another w , i\, arc v.e still groping in the dark on some o: these hazards by reason of conflict of ooinion, conflict of experimental data and theoretical expres sion by folks who f nd the theoretical haz ard in exposure because it is suggested in the book? Will Dr. E. G. Cranch talk briefly along this line of suggestion? DR. C R A N C H : This question is a broad one: Is any industry satisfied that it is iu a position to solve an occupational disease on the basis of present informa tion? I would say. absolutely yes, for th*.. majority of occupational disease problems are sufficiently understood to adopt cin dent measures for control.-*- LU 28th National Safely Congress CHAIRMAN JO H N SO N : frequently l lu:;tr it said, "Well, w hy should I do ain thing about this until you folks conic to terms on whether 1 ought to have two liarts per million or two thousand parts per million?" Let us develop this farther and ask the opinion o f I >r. I'"., ti, Meitcr, on the engineering side. I >K. M K I T K R : 1 agree with Dr. < r.nieh that there is enough k n o w n - t o solve these occupational disease hazards. If some employers are not willing to do anything at all until all possible informa tion is available, 1 would sav that they are never going to start. In solving these occupational dr-ea-aptuldcms, we have a progressive solution. In the same wav- th a t the 1940 autom obile could not have been built in 1920, ju s t so are we progressing in all the branches of engineering, ventilation, ventilation equip ment. and respiratory protective devices, and so 1 think adequate inform ation is available. A Basis for T ruth C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N ': f think we have a balance of opinion there. If you have an occupational disease hazard, there is enough knowledge stored som ewhere in the hooks and brains to tackle it or solve it in progressive fashion. But we arc clut tered up, I think, by a lot of crack-brained notions. I have read any quantity of liter ature in which somebody has ventured the opinion that because such ami such m a terials are used, we must have a hazard that is just a b o u t ready to kill off the population of the plant. Do we know enough about the hazards and control of benzol, silicosis, arsenic, phosphorus, radium, x-ray, and so forth, to sort out the truth and build upon solid fact an effective safety program ? Will Dr. Leonard Grecnburg develop that for a couple of minutes'? DR. G R EEX B U R G : It seems to me that there is a definite body of evidence which is available on the more important occupational poisons and for the more important occupational diseases, that makes it possible to prevent and control these poisonings and these hazards with a great deal of certainty. That holds for substances such as car bon monoxide and lead and chromium and arsenic and benzol. Tim chief reason, it seems to me. why we still lontinue to have poisonings in industry is because the employer and the worker do not realize the gravity of these hazards and do not take the problem seriously enough to in stitute the necessary and proper means of prevention. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N ; Now I am going to switch to the engineering side and ask the same question. Let us visual iz.e an industrial enterprise, th a t is fearful, that has a tuition that some exposure is a serious one. and wants to know if th e ir is anything from an industrial engineering standpoint that will make, it impossible or difliiult to devise the proper instriuneuls to measure the quantity of exposure, whether it he dust, gas or fume. 1 am going In turn that over to W arren Cook. M R . C O O K : T o d ay vve have more m eth o d s available for finding ou t howm u ch of the injurious m aterials a m an is b ein g exposed to th a n vve have e v er had in the past. Form erly it was a very labori ous procedure in most cases to analyze the atmosphere inhaled by the worker. Today in connection with more and more o f th e injurious materials, vve are having placed in our hands and arc having de veloped methods which will quickly tell us h o w m uch of the injurious m aterial is in the atm osphere breathed by the worker. W e have devices which will determine the concentration of carbon monoxide merely by reading a gauge. Similar equip ment is being developed for other in ju ri ous materials. I'or vapors, about the best device is the Innerpcrometcr, and wo hope vve will he able to get equipm ent of this kind m anufactured in this country one of these days, hut at the present time it is rather difficult to obtain. Practically all of the injurious materials in industrial atmospheres can he d e te r mined. Some of the methods are more simple than others, but methods arc being simplified all of the time so the safety en gineer in the plant can avail himself of these methods. CHAIRM AN JO H N S O N : Now I am going to ask Roy Bonsib a rather critical question. In cases of doubt, where fear has to be balanced with knowledge, would he think it advisable to attem pt !o deiu a hazard in a plant without technical Occupational Disease Control 135 m e a s u re m e n t5 T h a t is, hy visual o b se rv a tion. O r does he feel that it is beyond all question desirable to have the survey made technically hy industrial hygienists or hy men trained to sample properly with proper instruments? MII. I'O N S I I i : I think the g re a t e s t trouble in industry today is that there has been loo much guess work. In deal ing with insidious problems such as the new substances and some of the old sub stances which have been introduced, it is pretty hard to Jiang your hat on every thing, and the average executive today wants to know exactly w hat is what, and yon cannot know- that without concrete evidence. Voii h a t e g ot to g et delinite in formation and data. When once you know the facts, which can only be obtained through technical means and hy experienced people, you can give them something definite on which they can Iia.se definite conclusions a n d on which you can base your preventive measures. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : N ow I feel assured that we can discuss some detailed problems. \Vc have our base. W c arc in agreem ent that there is no ordinary' occu pational disease hazard that cannot be coped with, that there is sufficient evi dence to sort fact from fancy, that there are instruments sufficient in quantity and kind for proper engineering analysis, and that there is no need of guessing. Let us start now an occupational dis ease control program. W e have Plant X. The management at the top says, "Find my hazard, if any. .Control it, if need be. I am setting up a medical department: I am setting up engineering occupational hygienists. I want you fellows to work out a program so that my operating depart ment can install the necessary' safeguards, whatever they may be, and assure me that there will be no emergence of disability by reason of these e xp o sures.'' The Medical Program Ret us build first the medical half of that program. Of what does it generally consist, Dr. O. A. Sander? DR. SA N D ER : I am glad you em pha sized the need of a medical program in an occupational disease control program, along with the engineering control An initial examination of all workers exposed to a particular occupational hazard is as necessary as is the exact deter.iimatio:- of a hazard by engineering methods. The appearance or the findings in'any group of workers exposed to a particular dust, or what have you, gives an accurate picture of (he hazard which has existed over a period of years. T h a t picture is one which the engineers cannot give you, because their dust counts or other deter minations may be only tem porary or may vary from day today. It may have changed considerably in tho past few years: the hazard may have been for example., ten tipies as great two y ears before as it was on the day the dust counts were made So no occupational disease control is a d e quate without initial (-xamination ot all employees. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : Dr. Sander has developed the need for the medical examination as a survey question to deter mine whether conditions as they have ex isted have produced any pathology in the men. Let us assume that, and install our program of control. Dr. Greenburg. what do you feel about the need for periodicity in the examination program ? DR. G R E E N B U R G : That' would largely depend on what particular hazards were present in the plant itself. In certain chses it would be desirable to examine workers very frequently, perhaps even as often as once a month: and in other instknces it might be very satisfactory to examine them once a year, depending on just what particular substances the work ers were exposed to in their daily occupa tion and how satisfactory the technical means pf control were. For example, in the ease o f benzol, it might be satisfactory to examine workers every three months. I believe in the case of tetraethyl lead, the du P o n t Company examines its employees about once a month, though I am not quite sure about that. In the case of sand blasters, it might be desirable to examine them and x-ray them every six months; whereas in the case of foundrymen it might be perfectly satisfactory if the men are en gaged in ordinary foundry work to examine them once a year and x-ray them once a year or once every year and a half. It would he largely a question of judg meat, depending on the particular occu- 2tSth National Safely Congress ' I;*lion and the particular substances e m ployed. i'l l AIRM AN JO H N SO N : l would like to ask l)r. Grccnlnirg to amplify just one point.. If the survey about which Dr. Sander spoke discloses no specific occu pational disease hazard as having caused any pathology--and that is the situation that obtains in most plants--but still there may be sonic moderate exposures to this or to that, and the management \yants to be perfectly sure, how often as a general thing should those men come up for re examination ? Understand, this survey has disclosed no pathology, no damage, nothing you can put your teeth in or hang your hat on as indicating a great need for engineering changes in current methods of control. Re-examination Periods DR. G R E E N B E R G : That would largely depend on whether there were any hazardous materials being used in the plant. If the condition of the men at the time of the initial examination was quite negative and no hazardous material is be ing used in the plant, I should say the de cision as to whether or not you are going to have physical examinations is largely an open one, and a matter of wide judg ment. ('or example, in the case of a d e p a r t ment store's employees, where young women act as salesladies, under ordinary conditions, it might not be necessary or desirable to give them physical examina tions m ore th an once in five years, p e r haps not even then. If, on the other hand, the physical exunfnations were quite negative, and yet oxic materials are being employed, the lecision would depend on how toxic those natcrials arc and what tlie analysis of the ilant atmosphere shows. It seems to tile that the answer to the inestion is a m atter of judgm ent which mist be based on a comparison of the dativ e hazards of the exposure as coiiiared with the cost and desirability of ontinuing intensive physical examination, nd only by knowing the detailed facts an one arrive at a sound decision in a articular given instance. C H A IR M A N JO H N SO N : I think lat it is very important for you all to consider carefully the opinion expressed there. You will observe that he has placed the burden upon his own profes sion, by careful discussion, of course, with the m anagem ent that is to pay the hill: but the decision must rest with the doc tor upon the evidence as presented by the conditions of the plant and the employees themselves. There is no cook book formula which says you m ust put employees through the mill at standard intervals. But the making of medical examinations is another tiling. It always presents problems, because men frequently are frightened when they k n o w th ey are being exam in ed to see if there is anything the m atter with them, not ju s t being exam ined to sec if tlu-y are all right. They are always fearful that some dire calamity may overtake them sooii. It is a real personnel prob lem, one that has to be handled with judgment. I am going to ask Dr. Cranch if, in his long experience of examining a great many employees for operating exposures that might not he hazardous, he has al ways been able to keep those employees calm and collected and quiet and quite content with what things were found. DR. C R A N C H : Physical examination programs for occupational disease con trol can hardly be divorced from a physi cal examination program aimed at general health conservation. W h e re it is possible to have a medical service, where the physi cian is in daily contact with the man. physical examination presents far fewer difficulties than where it is done only for the sake of occupational disease control. If an outside physical! comes in to e \ amine certain groups of men at intervals of from otic month to two years, men logically have a right to expect that then may be something going wrong with those who are called in frequently, and that leads to considerable nervousness on their part as to w hat will be found. T here is a m atter of psychology and practice in carrying out such a program of examinations. It is much simpler, where it is possible to a rr a n g e it, to have reason ably frequent examinations for general health conservation, and these examina tions, then, will be included in tin- regular procedure and help to determine the efferts of an occupational disease exposure. Occupational Disease Control 1S7 As Dr. Hreenburg said, we do not a t tempt as a ride a routine examination at a fixed in terval of a year, vve will say. T h e periodicity of o ur re-examination is determined largely by several factors: first, the possible exposure to occupational disease hazards; second, w hat we notice in co nnection with th a t m a n 's health as the days go by. O ur supervisory force is usually in structed to send in any man who seems a little under the weather, who does not seem to he doing well, who seems to be slipping a little. From their recom m enda tions often we pick up cases that certainly requite examination which otherwise would easily have been overlooked. Another thing which we have to rem em ber is that many symptoms are common not only to occupational disease expo sures incident to life in general; and the medical program for the control of occu pational disease is therefore extremely im portant in that the contact must be es tablished with the men to determine what changes are going on and what is their origin. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : The im portant point to me is that you cannot drag in a physician from the outside who is a total stranger to your problem, merely' because he is an expert toxicologist or ex pert something else, and ask him to set up a medical examination or control program for about a week, and then depart. Hire him to consult with your own physician, but let your own physician so fold the occupational disease program in to the general health conservation pro gram, that the findings of the one serve to augment and support the findings of the other. N ow I am going to talk to the engineers, and assume that a survey has been made in which we have discovered a hazard sufficiently dangerous so that, in the doc tor's opinion, something ought to be done a b o u t it. I am not assum ing th a t it has gone so far as to kill men, but it has m ani fested itself either in moderate early sy m p toms or some actual demonstrable pa thology in a few. I want to ask this group of engineers what they want the medical men to tell them which they may use to utmost ad vantage in their own work in connection with surveying to locate and find t h e ' hazard that they want to control. Will Willis Hazard discuss that onec MR. H A Z A R D : It seems to me that the most important thing that the doctor can tell the engineer is w hat his findings are from the physical examination. That more or less determ ines how serious the h azard is; it o ften isolates it to certain in dividuals in the plant, and that points the way to places that should come under en gineering control in th at regard. , C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : Perhaps you have already visualized what I am leading to. I w ant M r. Bonsib to develop that a little farther. H ere we have the medical examination installed to disclose what is wrong,, if anything. I w ant him to develop the engineering control method. W hat fact and what data does he need to go about his business? Engineering Control MR. B O N S I B : Since the am ount of damage to the human mechanism depends upon the exposure and the concentration the jengineer should know the maximum allowable concentration to which he would have to maintain the working atmosphere or ^he w o rk in g condition, and as an en gineer that is som ething that the medical profession must give so that the engineer will have s o m eth in g to which to work. 1* th in k th e a n s w e r to the question, then, is that it is very essential th a t the thresh old or maximum allowable concentration permissible be known. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : I do not think we will quarrel about that. I am certain no engineering group will stick out its neck far enough to define for the medical profession what constitutes the safe threshold limit. I t is not quite the answ er to the question I had in mind, however. For a great m any years, you know, the medical profession has been conducting its work successfully in industry, main taining the greatest degree of confidence between the employees and the doctor through the fact that the doctor never revealed what was the m atter with the man if there was anything wrong. He grades the men in a general way--employ able, or employable subject to medical 138 28th National Safety Congress servio. in iplnyuhlc in limited expo much dust. I t had been shown that sures. gypsum dust itself does not cause silicosis I ti'"' I | have blown open a question here*. { ,,, iIn- (loetor inform th e engineer of a si)H,, i. in n u m ber o f facts ab o u t the hazard *,, ,illicit these m en have been cx- posed ' ' *iti..ut w eak en in g -th at professional coiilhei" , uliicli lie has established in the ,,,. ii whom ho ' examining? o r in ju ry to the lungs. W h e r e there is silica sand, we look for that injury to the lungs and the development of fibrosis and silicosis w h e re .th e exposure is high and continued over a long period of time. Consequently, where about half of the material used in this operation was silica \Vh.u I u.iut this group of engineers to deveh'r ', i an tliev use a d eq uately mass intonu.H ,,,ii, or inform ation ab ou t the <ronp. ' ,ili.nit having to !<novv th a t Mike Datuhi " , l,i is about one m o n th from ritiere***' ,, u h a disability - W ill you de\ clop ''' ' , \l i . 11afara! ? sand, it was the guess of the engineer that here was a condition which had to be con trolled effectively to keep the ihi-t concen tration down to very low levels. To everyone's surprise, the x-ray exami nations of workers who had been expo-vd to these operations for a n u m b e r of ye n .. MK i \ \K 1 ): It seems to me it is entireh -iblt- for the enginee r in iis<- showed that there was no developm ent of librosis. the mautu' is -:o`>r se:v- , le-ulls in a purely statistical u does not have to know who ,, -ether it is Mike D am b ro w sk i , i i-Ne. It is ex trem ely impnr- ant **' . know the n u m b e r of people who o * the v.r.v* the owing the same ailment and of people who are w o rk in g in cut or the piant as a whole. F u rt h e r e n g in e e rin g da la w as in>11<--1 1-.i. and it was found that two things hap pencil. I n th e first place, th e grain sizi of the sand was rather uniformly largi and wedt washed. T h e r e was no abrasive action to produce a g reat num ber of tine particles. In the air itself, the concentra tion of free silica was not 50 per cent, or MK -. 'k s M l : I do not see how von gainst something unless you what it was in the main material, but only one or two per cent. Finally, laboratory aP.O" " e<? v " teeth o exter. ' kriow ' : is going to do: and I do not : eau provide necessary pro. ties without knowing to what ave to go on them. You must edioM limit to which the sub.- material, w h e th e r it is gas. examination showed that where you get quartz dust falling, or where you would get gypsum dust settling out of the air fairly rapidly-, the quartz d u st settled out more rapidly; and the combination of quartz and gypsum settled out even more is causing the trouble. If rapidly th a n eith er o n e alone, due to the - tow what the to x ic lim it is. fact th a t th e g y p s u m d u s t caused a g g lo m . it take? to m ak e people erations w ith the silica dust, a n d you had . much the human mechanism taking oh:e allowance for the large groups of particles which caused this more rapid settling. . of the susceptible, I do not engineer can provide the ,1 'V.res. Now. the data obtained through the medical examination and the x-ray ivas w hat gave the hint that the cost and the .. I st'hi m ain tain th a t the com pleteness of the control at that o p e r a it is the essential th in g for tion was not as g re a t as it would normally . ti.' know. T h a t gives him be th o u g h t to be by the en gin eer walking .hoot at. I ;; other words, into the situation. that concentration to the which it wi.'i not m ak e auy, the length c: exposure ncces- CHAIRM AN' JO H N S O N : 1 think that illustration binds together these various points. that person \mrst be ex- I have watched that particular study de veloped with a great deal of interest, and. V hi: An instance m ig h t be . other factors than threshold seen utilized. F o r example, ....id industry, in certain p lan ts for a fact, the engineers did not know, or did not have to know, anything about the men as individuals: the doctor kept that in bis files completely. . :s known as a sanded p laster g operation where there is Now let us summarize for just a mo nicnt, to see where we have arrived. W e Occupational Disease Control *1 S f 139 have the doctors and the engineers as the two bases o f our triangle. O u r panel feels sanguine that hazards can be controlled. Wc know enough, there is enough knowl edge in the aggregate to control them. We say that the need for a medical pro gram is as vital as the need for an e n gineering program; that the doctor ought, to he the plant doctor, augmented by such specialists as lie needs to em ploy to couii set with him; that they have a certain amount of factual inform ation that they must turn over to the hygienist or en gineer for his use as a check for his per formances, and that the medical crowd should tell (lie engineering crow d how low the hazard m ust he taken to consider it reasonably safe; that the engineers are perfectly willing and able to tackle the hazard in some fashion if they know those things; and the periodicity of the exami nation to find out w hether the engineers did a job or not depends upon the condi tions as the doctor finds the record written in the men themselves. Of course, the engineers are going to continue to use the instrum ents of survey to check their own results. Mow I am g o in g d o w n to o u r printed program and explore some of the ques tions suggested there. The panel will dis cuss phases of exhaust systems. Arc there in the engineering catalogues, d ata de scribing machinery of otic kind or another to make it possible' for the engineer to design an exhaust sy stem if he w an ts it. or thinks he needs it? Are there enough high grade, glorified vacuum cleaners on the market to pick one out of the catalogue and install It in the plant, an d expect it to produce results? Dr. Meiter, will you develop vmir thoughts on present m arket conditions of tailor-made exhaust systems as against engineering design of exhaust systems to fit the individual plan t c ircu m stan ces? Exhaust Systems DR. ME I T E R : In m y opinion, there is not available ready-made exhaust ventila tion equipment. T h e assumption that you can select from a catalogue and ventilate your problems has been a great drawback in the progress of this work. By that I mean th is: O fte n tim e s a c o n cern will have, say, a local tin worker. They- call him in an d he, w ith o u t k n o w ing what the requirem ents a r c ' 6 0 tire State Code, without knowing the H ints to which the gas, dust o r fume has to be exhausted, immediately sets about and de signs a hood. Then, without even knowing how much air can be handled by that hood, he looks into the classified section of the telephone book and calls up the fan company. The fan com pany lias a salesm an , but he is not in, so the office girl looks up the technical data, and the company ships the fan. W hen this ventilating sy stem is finally installed, the sheet metal worker says, "Well, the sheet metal w o rk portion of it is all right, anil th a t is all I guarantee." Then the fan com pany, on the other hand, says that the fan delivers a certain volume of air at the speed show n in their catalogue, so they w ash their hands of it. And finally, when th e w hole th i n g is in, it does n o f work and a job has been poorly done.' So the point I wish to make is that ventilation, no matter how simple, requires technical knowledge and technical instru ments to determine when the system is really working. CHAIRM AN' J O H N S O N : f think Dr. Meiter has put his finger on a very critical point. When I speak about engineering control, I mean engineering control, and l do not mean tinsmith control. I.et me Illustrate. Sander talked about the metal fume fever, zinc shakes. Visualize, if you will, the problem of a shipyard building de stroyers for the United States Navy of galvanized sheet plate, with a great deal of electrical welding w ork to he done in confined spaces, in the little tanks and cells of which the ship is constructed. There is a plant set up in the field, you might say, lying for nearly a year at its fitting-out basin, a little plant about 325 feet long and 30 feet wide, 25 to 50 feet molded depth and heaven only knows how many tanks in it (they get dow n to pretty small sizes) with welding to be done in most. In those confined spaces welding, steam-fitting and electrical work m ust he done. Can you imagine a tailor-made ven tilating system being used there? Now let us go to the next question, pro tective creams and lotions. Let us have clearly in mind th a t a cream or a lotion is sm eared on the skin for a purpose, and 140 2Sth National Safety Lonyress usually 'th e purpose is to prevent the moderate amounts of somethin); or other trout coining into contact with the skin. These creams and lotions are of two kinds, those that are water soluble for use in oily exposures, a n d those which arc oil soluble for use in aqueous exposures. 'This use of cream, I declare arbitrarily, as C hairm an of this party, is not in lieu of any other control* These creams are used because controls cannot be made absolute, and because there are sensitive kins to he tak en care of. Dr. Cranclt, would you like to discus. the effectiveness ami the use of creams, trout the viewpoint of the doctor who has a cock-eyed purchasing agent who buy in oil soluble when he wants a water olublc. and vice versa? Protective Creams and Lotions OK. C R A N C H : 1 think you have,' started something. Protective creams cer tainly have a field in the protection of kin from various irritant substances. I would put far ahead of the use of protect live creams, however, good personal hygiene and thorough cleanliness oil tile part of the worker. W h e re that is o b tained. the question of protective creams is of lesser importance: sometimes nega tive importance. There1 are certain exposures, however, where no amount of personal hygiene or cleanliness is enough to protect from pos sible harm. 'Therefore, we do have a place for protective creams of the two classes Mr Johnson has just mentioned. Primary in the consideration and selccion of any cream, of course, is the nature if the exposure. If it is oil an oily s u b stance. we must use a water soluble cream which will form a coating over tin -kin ami resist the penetration of the oily mati rial And. on the o th er hand, if it is a water soluble substance from which we must have protection, vve must have an oily base in the protective cream. 'The first consideration, then, is that the cream itself shall not contain an irritant. T h a t incidentally opens up the whole field of allergy. There arc many people sen sitive to certain of the common ingredients used in many of these protective coatings. They can probably only he discovered by means of a patch test or by actual experi ence in the use of the cream. In that cast, some o th e r m eans of protection must he adopted, or the man assigned to other work. T h e great proportion of creams now on the market appear to he reasonably free from any irritants or substances that are particularly likely to bring about an al lergic reaction. T h e m a in thing is to select the one designed for the type of protec tion required. These creams, we have found, are often considerably abused. Men seem to think, ill m a n y places, th a t the cream has to he applied in a coating that by its mechanical thickness to the naked eye wfll protect the skin. J have seen a man put on a quarter of a pound where half an inch squeezed out of a tube would probably have an sw ered the imrpo.se. In that ease, they often run into other difficulties. Many of these creams which protect from oil substances, are creams which have a soap base; the men are simply running around in a soap poultice, and they work up an irritation which is as great or in some cases greater than that which would have resulted from the ex posure they sought to prevent. In the oily crcant preparations which protect from water soluble substances, they offer us very queer mixtures. Lanoliue as a base, T think, is the tiling of choice for that type of protection, rather than a petrolatum. It works a little fur ther into the skin, I believe, and will pro tect in a m ore thorough m anner than the petrolatum base preparations which just smear over the surface and are more easily rubbed off and fail in their p r o l e i lion. A n o th e r tiling to consider is. that the last word has certainly not been said on p ro to c th c cream s: they are in the process ol rather rapid development. I helievi there are commercially available main suitable types of protective creams, and. on the other hand, they ran he made up for a specific purpose very satisfactorily on the advice of your physician. You can get a very satisfactory cream that can he produced in hulk for your own use. Respiratory Protection CHA IRM A N' JO H N S O N : tve wf continue with the discussion of respira r> i >i > it r u ( i v < " " i >i..i ' i tory protection, in connection witli the examination of thousands of foundrymen. Dr. Sander has explored the opera tions which they conduct so that he know s w hat they all mean. H e of course has found that some of the men are pro tected hy exhaust systems, and some of the men are protected by personal body protection, either filters o r the airline type of respiration. I interpret respiratory protection to mean the kind of respiratory protection that you stick onto the tnan. O f course, it is all respiratory protection, but I wonder if Dr. Sander would like to discuss whether or not he has found hy the actual examination of men that the satisfactory type of respirator has been found which will actually protect the men. DR. SA N D ER : Beginning with sand blasters, undoubtedly the modern air hel m et affords alm ost 100 per cen t protection for the prevention of silicosis, provided the helmet is kept in good working condition, and provided the air pressure coming into the helmet is satisfactory. In the observation of about 300 sand blasters in a seven-year period I have yet to see the first one develop silicosis who had worked only with the modern hel met. Also, I have seen no so-called firststage cases develop a second stage sili cosis during that interval. A first-stage case has been kept at work; he has not been shifted. W e feel that a 's a n d blaster with a modern helmet is breathing less'dust than anyone else in the foundry as a m atter of fact, an d there is certainly no point in shifting him out onto the floor, removing his piece of respiratory protection and giving him more du-t than he i- getting at his sand Masting jolt. As far as the other foundry operations are concerned, of course it is alw ays a d visable to exhaust when possible. There are a few occupations that cannot he ex hausted satisfactorily. One of these is sand chipping, and where sand chipping must he done, it is advisable for the chippers to wear the filter respirators. H o w ever. even there it is advisable to tr y some other m ethod of cleaning the casting if that is all that is feasible--for instance, washing with high pressure combined water and sand, and so forth. W ith ordinary stand grinding, there is no need of respiratory protection, provided an ex h a u st sy s tem is used and is in j>ro|jer working condition. * / The exhaust ventilation for swing g rin d ers is a little more' difficult, out it has been accomplished. There arc very few swing grinders in Wisconsin that are exhausted, however. It has been our ex perience that swing grinders have not de veloped as m uch silicosis as was at first believed, and the reason probably is that hy the time they g e t the castings there iuo m ore m olding sand on them. It has all been removed first in the grinding wheels with all the artificial abrasive, so the only silica the sw ing g rinder is breathing is generally plant dust. Molders and core makers need no spe cial respiratory protection, in m y opinion. A molder just could not do the job very well if he were required to wear a respira tor from morning until night. I do not think I would depend on a respirator for the protection of the man with -the tuberculous scar. I would rather move him to some o ther job. or move his job som ew here else, o r localize his job in a separate room and ventilate it. I see no reason why we should worry about a sand blaster today, even with a tuberculous scar. W e feel they are not going to develop silicosis, and therefore we think that w hat little dust there may he will have no effect on such a tu b e r culous sear. W e have not permitted sand blasters with tuberculous scars to continue working on that job, but l think we should permit them to do so today, knowing that the h azard of sand blasting is controlled provided, of course, the equipment is kept in w orking condition. CHA IRM A N JO H N S O N : That dis sertation answers beautifully the question of re s p ira to ry p rotection as far as it a p plies to the foundry, and I think direct analogy will carry that opinion over into almost any other exposure that you choose to carry it into. In order to play absolutely fair with everyone in the audience, 1 am going to start on the questions that have come to me. and there are quite a number. Here is the first question: Assuming that the development of adequate engin- ring ami medical departm ents is essen tial to properly control dust hazards, how can the smaller plants, those having Ino or 200 employees, cope with this prob lem and determine whether or not they have a hazardous dust condition or any other occupational disease condition? It would he impossible in m any cases for these small plants to set up elaborate and expensive control departments. To lead the answer in a definite direcI am going to suggest that perhaps i, e answer lies in the recent development :n ahno't every industrial state, divisions , i occupational disease hygiene, either in the Department of Labor or the Depart ment of Health. 1 am sure Dr. Leonard V'.reeniutrg wmild like to a n sw e r that question. The Small Plant Problem DR. CiREUNBURG: T here are two t; iv.gs that the smaller plan t m a y do: one is to make use of its insurance company! to the fullest ex ten t; and the second is to* make use of siteh facilities as the state has at its disposal, either the D epartm ent of Labor or the Department of Health. j In approximately 30 states in the Union! -.here are divisions of industrial hygiene in cither the Department of Labor or the Department of Health, and in a few cases ,a both, and they are always prepared and e.mer to help the smaller plant, particu larly with such problems as this. Many of the insurance companies have Levq'.oped divisions of hygiene an d have experts on their staff who arc also pre pared and able to render service along ::teie lines. It seems to me that the big ees' problem is to get the small plant management to recognize that the stmnhlirg block is m anagem ent itself. Once that recognition has been achieved, it is a relatively simple thing to obtain prac tically free service from either of these two organizations in an effort to really d o c 'lmtrv.ctive preventive work. CHAIRM AN JO H N S O N : Let me add one thought to that answer. I am familiar with most of those divisions. In none of t h e n is there anybody c a rry in g a big stick to browbeat or to ham m er into shape the small plants that want help. Tinw are already giving help in an advisory fashion. There lias been fear, at times, that you could not let a state man into the plant without expecting him to change a recom mendation into an order overnight. I have not seen that in this treatm ent of the occu pational disease problem. I am not telling von that it does not exist; I say 1 have not seen it. I have here a question for our engineers. Vestcrday they were talking about weld ing metal and fume fever, and so forth. Here is the qdestion: Does an exhaust system from electrical welding affect the type of weld? As 1 view this question, it means this: W h e n you weld with an. electric wedding process using a coated electrode, the tluxing of the coating produces an umbrella or tent over the weld arc itself and thereby excludes the air from the arc and prcionts oxidation of the steel which is being cast into the hole being tilled up, and prevents oxidation of any of the material or metal that is in the fused state. Now the question is. if you stick a heavy exhaust there and pull away that vapor which provides the protection, do you ruin your weld? Is the control for health at the expense of the weld, or would it be better to forget that and limit the time of the welding? Does anybody here want to answer that? MR. B O N S IB : I think that if you have general ventilation there would be very little danger of destroying that umbrella that Mr. 'Johnson has mentioned. Of course, it is advisable to remove those fumes as near the source of origin as pos sible. You have to get within eight inches, and not more than that, to really get effi cient results, and being that close yon do not require more th an 100 or 200 lineal feet per million. I do not think there is enough cooling action to do damage. As a matter of fact, some tests wc were interested in making seemed to indicate that there was no dam age done. However, you come where the damage would be done' if you exceed that, but I do not thin k yo u need to exceed 100 or 200 lineal feet per million. If you have general ample ventilation, then you do not have any danger, in tny opinion. CHAIRM AN JO H N S O N : That seems to be a logical conclusion. Tt is certainly an opinion based upon observation of that O ccupational l.li-icasc ( 1 ' , r 'i-tc- sort of problem. The next question is: "Is there enough silica in the average fire brick to affect w o rk e rs seriously?" In other words,, if we explore clay for its refractory property on the one hand, and its plasticity on the other, is there a descending order of silicosis hazard from the fire brick on the one side, down through plastic china clay or paper clay on the other? Mr. Hazard, the questioner wants you to talk about the am ount of hazard in the fire clay, and for w a n t of a better defini tion let us leave o u t' the G anister brick which is a brick the san d of which we know to be p re tty close to 100 p e r ' c e n t silica. MR. H A Z A R D : I think this is really p. medical question. H ut th e r e are certain fire bricks which are very high in silica, and certain others which have practically none or a negligible amount in them. You have a range there from what might be called a dangerous condition, down to one where you are practically sure no danger exists. It seems to me th a t if you had a fire brick with very high silica content, with the chipping and knocking of the brick layer against the brick, it m ight stir up considerable dust and m ight be a silicosis hazard, but I would like to hear the medi cal side on that question. CHAIRM AN JO H N S O N : Will either of the doctors discuss the inherent toxicit) of the fire clays as they are normally handled in the m anufacture of brick? DR. GR KEN BURG: It seems to me the Chairman ought to tell us what the percentage of free silica is in the fire clay. He has talked around the question, but he has not told us th e cru x of the whole problem. CHAIRMAN JO H N S O N : The prob lem seems to me to be related to the notion that maybe these mixtures are so mixed that other things beside the silica produce an alleviating or an ameliorat ing effect to prevent w hat silica there is from causing silicosis. Clays do not seem to produce silicosis. It is the dry-pan grin d in g of all kinds of things that produces enormous quantities of dust some of which contain silica, and I cannot remember at this moment just what tlie amount of silica is in the ordinary run of fire clays; but I am not giving-tjie medical answer. It is m y thought, Ahat the hazard produced in the cla\ products is not an inherent one, but one th ro w n in by violent agitation due to dry grinding operations. Let us go on to another interesting ques tion: "T o w hat extent are the industries with which this panel are familiar pro viding washing facilities, and what are the advantages of washing in showers, and so forth, accruing to the employees on the one hand, and the employer on the other, and how is the thing paid for?" Well, we know that in some states, washing facilities are required by law in certain types of industries, and in others they are put in. I can visualize the need to develop this question in two w ays: one for the c o n trol of a serious occupational disease ex posure such as lead; and the other, the general industrial hygiene, to get folks to wash on the developed fact that by care ful w ashing a g re a t m a n y of the derm atitis problems solve themselves. Will Dr. Cranch talk about the pro vision of washing facilities? DR. C R A N C H : W ashing facilities are most desirable things in any plant, large t or small. As the C hairm an has said, it is the most important factor in the preven tion of occupational dermatitis, to say nothing of general hygiene to the w ork men. The vicissitudes of trying to establish any adequate w ashing facilities in in dustry are great. My first experience occurred over forty years ago as a work man. In that plant there was no water .available, although it was a large plant, and unless you sneaked from the job and went around to a faucet which was used for sprinkling the front lawn, you had no water available. It was not expected that hands should be washed. A man worked at his job, ate his lunch, worked all day and went home so black as a rule you could not tell his race. Later I became m uch interested in the development of w ashing facilities. I re member in one very large plant we put in excellent w ashing facilities, and it was surprising to see how they were abused even to the point where in some cases we had to discontinue service. In other or- 144 28th National Safety Congress ganizaliotis, an attem pt on the part of tlie managenicnt to furnish good washing facilities met with consistent refusal on the part of the workmen to cooperate with them in the use of these things: even where the workmen were given time out at full pay on com pany time to wash, they would not do it. Fortunately, these conditions have changed, and the men themselves now ap preciate those facilities where they are put in. and they generally demand them where th ey are not put in. I think washing facilities are a most im portant feature in the control of occupa tional diseases, and a number of occupa tional conditions aside from dermatitis. There are a number of occupations where complete showers are furnished and those facilities arc very largely a measure of prevention of occupational disease: at^d at the beginning of the day's work the men change to working clothes where previously that was not done. Oil D erm atitis | C H A I R M A N J O H N S O N : H ere is another question: " Is it not an accepted fact that oil dermatitis is more of a mechanical break down of the skin than it is a toxic prob lem? How would you overcome the de sire of the. em ployees to use abrasive, cleansers on the hands?" Cutting oils and oth er oils produce dermatitis, and represent three hazards. One produces a plucking of the hair follicles, which is largely a mechanical tiling of rubbing oil and dirt, or what b a re you. into the skin. Then we have what I think the doctor.-, call heterothem a. which is probably a chemical burn, an irritation of the skin which is another type of dermatitis. Then th ere is a third one, which produces blood poisoning or boils where the oil has been supporting an infective medium bacteria of some sort. Can we solve th at oil contact problem by handling the washing of men in a satis factory manner through washing facilities, and the discouragement of the use of harsh abrasive soaps, o r d o esn 't it m ake any difference? M ay vve have a developm ent of that question from Dr. Greeuburg? DR. G R E E N B U R G : In dealing with the whole problem of dermatitis due to the use of cutting oil, you arc dealing with several different factors which may produce different types of skin lesions. The cure for all. of these, it scents to me. lies in the use of proper protective oint ment before the men start work in the morning, and the washing up at the end of each shift with the proper type of nonirritating soap. The easiest way to get the men to use a non-irritating soap is to supply one so they will not purchase an irritating soap themselves. If you leave it to them, they may purchase one which seems to work rapidly, hut which may have irritating properties. O n the oth er hand, if the m anagem ent supplies it, they can purchase one of su it able quality which in general may he of a more satisfactory type. T h e whole problem of oil folliculitis and oil dermatitis can be handled and is handled in m any plants on a very satis factory basis, by these simple means, and so far as I can sec does not present any insurmountable difficulties whatsoever. T he usual defect in the system seems to he that the plant does not pay any atten tion to the problem until many of the men become infected and many of them have skins which arc more or less ruined by an accum ulation of oil and foreign m atter in the pores of the skin. At that time, preventive measures are no longer sufficient. It then becomes necessary really to cleanse the skin th o r oughly and repeatedly so as to once again bring it hack to its normal clean condi tion. C HA I R MA N JOHNSON: Let ns go over to the engineering side and talk on the industrialist who manufactures oils to provide him self a meal" ticket and tries to prevent just this hazard from causing trouble. MR. B O X S IB : I agree with much that the doctor has said about getting good oil in the first place. I think that one of the big causes (and I have studied this problem a lot for the reason that you hear many stories of iniuries due to cu ttin g oils) is th at the oil Occupational Disease Control 145 is not kept clean. In the cases we have checked the trouble has been due to the use of dirty oil, or using oil over and over again that is filled with small particles of metal. These cause small injuries to the skin, and that in turn brings about f u r ther damage. So if you keep the oil clean. 1 do not think you will have much trouble. 1 think the practice of men spitting in the oil and using the oil over and over again has caused much more damage than the so-called paraffin acne. CHA IRM A N JO H N S O N : The next question is this: "Should employees working in departments subject to occu pational disease hazard be acquainted with and informed of these hazards, or kept in ignorance of them?" DR. SA N D E R : Undoubtedly, em ployees should be informed of every hazard to which they are exposed, and they should be informed also of the findings on exami nation. Anyone going to his doctor, for any reason whatsoever, wants to know what was found. In the same way, an em ployee going to a plant doctor wants to know what was found. He is not paying for the examination, but that makes no difference, he is still a human being who is interested in his own health and his future years of gainful employment. The practice in Wisconsin with physical examinations has been to give employees a duplicate copy of the report which the employer receives. The Wisconsin Indus trial Commission recently published a declaration of principles on physical ex aminations in industry which everyone in terested in this problem should sec. In that it is specifically requested that e m ployees he given a copy of the report which the employer receives. That is not a complete record o r re p o rt: it is merely a s tatem en t or listing of the im portant defects. I believe that it Is as wrong to give employees complete re ports as it is to give them nothing at all. A w orker is not interested In w h a t his blood pressure reading was yesterday or is today: he is merely in terested in k n o w ing whether or not it is significantly high, and that is all he cares about. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : Is there anybody else on the panel who would like to discuss the question? MR. fiO N SIB : I think you can cause nmre unrest through fear, by failure to tell the man. than in any other way. He may imagine he has something and he worries and worries, and finally heemnes a victim of w hat is known as autohypnosis. w hatever th at is. think by relieving his mind and telling him exactly w hat is what, you lift that worry from him and you case his mind, all of which makes a better man of him. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : Now let us tackle another question: "Processing of a certain cellulose product involves over n ig h t s o a k in g in a solution of .5 per cent formaldehyde, and subsequently consider able formaldehyde odor is given off during the drying of which those in the vicinity often complain. How much formalde hyde would represent toxic proportions.-' And how could the quantity present in the air best be determined?" Dr. Meiter, would you like to tackle that problem? DR. M E IT E R : In mv own experience, formaldehyde is irritating enough so that you would not require refined technical instruments to make determinations, be cause it is very easily noticeable in low concentrations. I think proper engineer ing methods could he devised for elimi nating the fumes without using technical instruments, because it is necessary to keep the fumes down to very low concentration, otherwise a dermatitis may develop and also sore eyes. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : Docs the medical side of our panel wish to develop that any farther? DR. C R A N C H : I think that question illu strates one of the phases whore it is n o t necessary to have en g in ee rin g help in order to determine whether or not you have reached a point of safety. Formaldehyde vapors are not likely to he toxic, since in a concentrated form it is so irritating that just for com fort some relief would he demanded, so that we need not he particularly concerned about what concentration is obtained. There are a num ber of chemicals of that sort, where the immediate effects are so irritating that toxic exposure would usually he avoided in the course of ordi nary good practice in handling the m a terial. CHAIRM AN., JO H N SO N : C ook says lie has a n o th er idea. Warren - I - I 'l S i l l i l y l U lli/riS S MR. C OO K: The literature docs con tain some information concerning the de velopment of irritative actions, and we are wondering in Connecticut w hether the concentrations which were listed in the literature and the irritative action was as sociated with a tolerable am ount of irrita tion, or w h e th e r it w as in th e h ig h er d e grees of irritation. We ran some analyses on some formal dehyde gas in an operation where formal dehyde was being used in the manufacture of synthetic resin. T h e m ethod we used was the bubbling of the air of the plant through water, with two bubblings in a series, and tested with S hift's reag en t, the regular method for the determination of formaldehyde: and we got results that were in the area of the breathing zone of less than 20 parts per million, which is usually suggested as a satisfactory con centration. At otic point we ran it up to 90 o r TOO parts per million, and at that point I found 1 could keep my nose there for thirty sec onds before I decided to back aw ay fj-om it. j Rut f do agree with Dr. Crauch land Dr. Meiter that where the irritation does get excessive, then the irritative gas can he taken as the determ ining factor even though with most of the materials the irritation is not the safe w ay to determine whether a gas condition is o r is not safe. CHAIRMAN' JO H N S O N : another question: H ere is "Is sulphur dioxide gas in comentration- as low as 10 parts per million fur p r o longed exposure considered hazardous to the health ?" Going to the itii-ilieal side, will either Dr. ( 1t i r o r Ur t a aiich tell ns if sulphur dioxide in such low concentration represents a hazard for continuous expo sure? DR. G R E E N B U R G : I cannot say off hand. It is just about on the borderline. I think. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : Now, if an employee upon examination shows a very slight increase of lead content above nor mal after sixteen years of exposure, would you change his occupation? I do not know what a "very slight" amount of lead is. I think presum ably this means a few stipple cells, o r some thing like that. If an employee upon ex amination shows a very slight increase of lead content above normal after sixteen years' exposure, would you change his occupation? DR. G R E E N B U R G : I would want to know where he showed it, and how. CHAIRM AN JO H N S O N : If I may answer the question, it scents logical that if there is lead showing up, it cam e front somewhere, and having explored that you can determine the engineering phase of the control, and perhaps he can stay on the job after you have controlled the lead fumes. Mr. Cook, won't you answer the follow ing question? "W hat instruments are there on the market which are reasonable in cost for small shops to purchase which can he used to check atmospheres in metal spray work for zinc, iron and other harm ful fumes? Must several instrum ents he used where many types of metals are sprayed during a working day?" Metal Spraying Equipment .MR. C O O K : O n m etal spraying , there are several angles. No. 1, a bo oth , a v e n tilated booth should be used where pos sible. Secondly, the man should in most cases be given a positive pressure air supply. Now, assuming that the particular operation is one in which the m an may he spraying brass, there are various methods using the ventilated booth. I.et us assume for the mom ent that he is provided with no respiratory protection. If a m an is spraying zinc anil the booth is providing adequate exhaust so there is not lunch of a cloud of zinc and he does not get metal fume fever, it is probable that it is not necessary to make any determinalion for zinc. If during the course of the day the man is spraying some lead and some cad mium, 1 would feel very definitely that it would be well to run an electrical pre cipitator sample, analyze the sample, and obtain the electric precipitation for lead and also for cadmium which would be a routine chemical procedure, and the con centration of both of those should be kept below the suggested toxic limit in order to assure that you are on the safe side. I would feel that it would not he n eces sary to analyze for zinc under those coii- ditions, or lor other of the metals unless there is some additional one that is p ar ticularly toxic. But particularly where you do have lead or cadmium, the deter mination should be made for those, and based upon those determ inations you can get an idea on the basis of the relative duration of spraying of those particular metals w h at the e x p o su re is. DR. M R IT IiR : I agree with Mr. Cook, and I believe the solution of this problem is first, the use of a p ro p erly ventilated booth so as to eliminate the exposure to the o ther w o rk m e n itt th e vicinity. The second item is the use of a positive pressure airline respirator to protect the operator. I think that conducting nictalizing operations all over the shop and without adequate equipment, especially where such metals as lead are sprayed, are going to produce occupational diseases. 1 believe the proper thing to do is to start right with the proper type of equipment, by providing the booth and protecting the man, and you will then not need the sampling devices. C H A I R MA N J O H N S O N : Then the specific answer to the question seems to be the lead precipitator as the one gadg< that will be m ost useful, an d the sajqpi should, be analyzed C|iiantitativefyin th chemical laboratory. I w ant to a s k th e d q c to r a question i. connection with pre-em ploym ent medic:: examinations. T h e exposure is som ethin that may cause derm atitis. 1 take it froi the question that the problem of allerg arises, b o yo u re c o m m e n d patcli te s t- ii conjunction with pre-employment exann nations to determine an employee's po sihlc allergy to the exposure." I)R. C RA N 'C H : In general, I won!, say- you w ould h a rd ly be w a r r a n t e d in cui. du ctin g p atch tests on all applicant.- rV employment. W here we have a know; material to which the employee is heiu exposed that very c o m m o n ly produces a; allergy reaction, it m ight be advisable P use such a filter. P a tc h tes ts a re no t 1< per cent infallible, and they are not alt-, gether simple. T hey have to be very car, fully given and very carefully interpreteo Por that reason, they are not an Integra part of an average preliminary agrecnieii `upon exam ination. T h e y m i g h t he quitmisleading. n ADJOURNM ENT / m t/less were about the railroad safety, lie m ust he educated in safety, iji!i discipline is another subject on "S i . it is perhaps the most intporp r I think that a great deal ran be d by bringing the safety superiui awl the division operating super- t together so that they meet on mnwn ground in applying the cor- ifety methods. . L O N G : M r. Neff, is there any can prevail upon you to stay with tomorrow morning? 1 found that is a room available in this building tow morning, and if you can use ire on your boss, this topic is too tant to leave until it is throughly -seil. ' N E F F : 1 certainly would like to -- it further, because there are a lot h'.gs th at 1 would like to say. LONG: I t is true, we arc all up -I th is thing th a t you are telling us, ietv ofliccrs. I am a form er trans. 'on man and I believe everything ;,:.vc said. But there are going to he *f questions shot a t yon. not quesr what you said, hut how arc we m do it ? UR.MAN H E N R Y : If we could i upon Mr. Neff! N E F F : If it is possible for me to :i and the railroad is going all right, stay over until tomorrow morning! VlKMAX H E N R Y : Gentlemen. 1 igrve :-;> i zr; rv # : :r-; rr- 1 zr.a: v -/ AzcS.i r.~z ^ d iscufsi-.it where it is. W e .have i that we can use another meeting w m orning and probably during ater p a rt. : ::-t day. V: rere-- z - - .naining and all taking an active 'fortunately, no stnotype record Wednesday discussions is avail- C hairira- Henry, in closing, ex; those taking p art in the Panel dation tor their assistance in the sessions interesting and in'i ! t S ta u n Knityowl Section 661 THURSDAY AFTERNOON SESSION October 19,1939 i Some Practical Aspects of Safety By M. J. GORMLEY Executive Assistant, Association of American Railroads, Washington, D. C. Organized safety in this country has come ings to millions of individuals each year. of age. and is now a mature force in in dustrial and community life. Last year the National Safety Council celebrated a iinarlcr-coulury of a c h ie v e m e n tin the greatest humanitarian cause of all limes. 'The steam railroad industry has liccn a party to the organized safety movement sincir i t s i n c e p ti o n . T he late Ralph C. Richards of the Chicago and Northwestern t Railway was a member of the committee appointed in 1912 by the Association of Iron ami Steel Engineers "to organize and to create a permanent body devoted to the promotion of safety to human life in the industries of the United Stales." Out of that committee grew the "National Council i for Industrial Safety." which later became the National Safety Council. Dr. Charles i 1\ Neill, at that time U. S. Commissioner of Labor, and since 1915 manager o f the i Bureau of Information of the Southeastern Railways, was also a member of that com mittee. In 1`H?. a Steam Railroad Section of the National Safety Council was organized and /a;-.- in <: < .rfc or r o'.-- I.h'--. :t: 1921. t :,< Safety S'-dion o: the A--'.'iation of Amer- i'ar. Railroad- wa- organized to art a- a .!-arirg b'.ij.e v.ivin tb<- radroad bi'ju-`ry . ' ............... . .... The National Safety Council has esti mated the direct economic loss in 1958 from accidental deaths and injuries of all kinds at about $5,200,000,000. It is very probable that if it bad not been for the organized safety movement the cost of accidents might easily have been doubled in 1938. Even so, the direct economic loss from accidental deaths and injuries in 1938 was 5 per cent o f the total national income, and averaged something more than $100 per family. On the whole, 1938 was the safest year in railroad history. Excluding trespassers and persons involved in highway grade crossing accidents, there were 83 per cent fewer fatalities and 89 per cent fewer in juries to persons in railroad accidents in 1938 titan in 1913, the birth-year of the National Safety Council. In appraising progress in railroad safety, I will use the year 1923 rather than 1913 as the base year for purposes of comparison. I do this first, becau-e v,e cannot break >Jov. r: :! 1! . : egi;r<- . gr'-a' ii'.'A. ff.e .v..;. :r. >ra of i.v p r o . 'd y. i.r. a; .-: a; ", w ra-\o:.'i '..'.ration- -tan- v.nh the y .a r 1923. Train Safety ' - - ' ' -a *' : ' < - : - , .--* A . o ' r v :- '- and preventive mea-ure-. Tin- systematic way in which the Safety .Section has carried on its work ami the record o f it- achievements i.-*oiu> of the -/A" of <v," ore .i.l.ot, fra.;; mil's, are r>.aired to perform tl.e tran-- .ortation services demanded of the rail roads. Speed, cliicieucy, economy, and safety of Midi services are essential. brightest chapter- in the history of American railroad-. i( Safe!} Iia- both humanitarian and eco nomic aspect*. The saving of human lives and the prevention of disabling injuries not I only lessen human suffering hut also result i in more efficient ami more economical in dustrial operations, as well as in dollar sav- Safety m' train movement- i- not merely an inridenlal part of modern railroad operation- that can be pur-iud or left alone at the will of management- Safely ha- a direct bearing on the dependability of rail road service. <m (be efficiency of that serv ice, and <m the costs of operation. As such, it is a vital part of oi>cratiiig plans, and is  ^oiild he io the .<1vantaste of consider, it front that point of only in consideration of safety in every condition svilii svilirli Tfas to tirai. Steam Railroad Section Officers 1939-1940 tenera! Chairman--E. 1- H enry, Chicago i t North Western Railway Co., Chicago, 111. Pice-Chairman-- IX G. I'liiu.lPS, Wabash Railway Co., St. Louis, Mo. Secretary and Nexen Letter Ed fir --P. F. Buckle, Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad J Co., Chicago, 111. Prat/ram Chairman, J. K. T enney, Western Maryland Railway Co.. Hagerstown, Met. ; Membership Chairman, Koiiert S cott, Atlantic Coast Line. Railroad Co., Wilmington, N. C. Statistics Chairman, T. H. Cakrow, Pennsylvania Railroad, Philadelphia, Pa. Contest Chairman, C. L. L aFouxtaink, Great Northern Railway', St. Paul, Minn. Poster .Chairman, L. J. Benson, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific Railroad Co., . Chicago. Safe Practices. Pamphlet Chairman, \V. J. W eil, Dclasvare, Lackawanna & Hudson Rail, road, Scranton. Pa.' j Nominations & Elections Chairman, W . C. S helyer, Union Pacific Railroad Co., Omaha, | Nch. j Health Chairman, D r. I kying S. Cutter, Chicago & N orth Western Railway Co., Chicago. ' L ' ' i *i l ; t - i. ,! : TUESDAY AFTERNOON SESSION October 17,1939 I The o|iening session of Steam Railroad pany, Chicago, who pre-ided. Chairinaii delegates svas railed to order hy E. L. Henry welcomed the delegates, sketched the Henry, Assistant to the General Manager, program of sessions hrfclly, and then in - Chicago it North Western Railway Com- troduced the first speaker. i ; v f : ; i Safety Today and Tomorrow on American Railroads >By CARL R. GRAY, JR. : Executive Vice President, Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha Railway Company, St. Paul, Minn. There is one thing in which f will not take a hack scat tor anyone, and that is the interest I have in "Safety." Perhaps it is parity, from inheritance that 1 gather my in terest in this work--perhaps from the en vironment ami association I have hail with I men who believe in safety, who preach it, 1 and who practice it constantly. Perhaps it is from the standpoint of realisation that it is one o f the greatest factors in the so lution of the transportation problem. But whether it is one or the other, or a part of all, I know that I am definitely, completely and wholeheartedly devoting a considerable j portion of my life to the improvement--hy safety--of the lives of all of our people. Naturally 1 should he most interested in the safely performance of the Omaha Rail road ; hut one cannot be safety-minded and fail to recognize and he interested in and a part of safety as it is understood in the business world today. One has but to look at the program of this Congress to realize what a tremendous place safety has taken in the lives of the Amvviean people, for it permeates the very souls of so many of us. It is, and has been, a complete success. 1 read all I can concerning early American railroading. Here is a clipping from an English newspaper of March 6, 1869, f|uot- 645 11 r. 'i' k l - V \ I :! * i