Document rxvLnY1EOZyLk4EVJBNr1EnD0
FILE NAME: Dana (DAN) DATE: 2010 DOC#: DAN010 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Marcy Duncan
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IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
.
CUYAHOGA COUNTY, OHIO
Michael Brown, et al.,
) case No.: CV-09-702689
Frank sylvasy (Estate), et al., ) Case n o .: c v -09-695277
Pi ai nti ffs, vs. Honeywell international, ine., et al.,
Defendants.
) ) JUDGE HANNA ) JUDGE SPELL, ) ) ) ) ) )
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Deposition of Marcy Duncan, a witness herein, taken by the Plaintiff, as upon cross-examination and pursuant to the Ohio Rules of civil Procedure and Notice a to time and place and stipulations hereinafter set forth, at the Residence inn Indianapolis Northwest-Marriott, 6220 Digital Way, indianapolis,.IN 46278, on on Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010, at 10:00 a.m., before George J. staiduhar, a Notary Public within and for the state of Ohio. .
----
.
witness: Marcy Duncan
INDEX
Cross-Examination by: Mr. Mismas
Direct Examination by: Mr. Doran
Recross-Examination by: Mr. Mismas
Plaintiffs' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
EXHIBITS Duncan:
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.
'
Page: 7
147 150 Marked
88 88 93 111 133 136 141 147
appearances:
For the Plaintiffs: John Mismas, Esq. of
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APPEARANCES
.
Bevan & Associates LPA, Inc. 6555 Dean Memorial Pkwy Boston Heights, OH 44236
For the Defendant, Dana companies, l l c :
Perry w. Doran, n , Esq.
of
.
.
Vorys, Sater, Seymour & Pease LLP
52 East Gay street
Columbus, OH 43215
and
Laura M. Higgs, Esq.
of
Dehay & Elliston, L.L.P.
36 south Charles street
suite 1300
'
Baltimore, MD 21201
For the Defendants, Borg-warner,'Morse, t e c , inc.:
Denirifer L. Blackwell, Esq. of
Goodin, orzeske & Blackwell, p.c. 501 East 91st street,suite 104 Indianapolis, IN 46240
CONTINUED:
For the Defendant, Fel-Pro:
Stephanie spardone, Esq.
of
.
Hawkins, Parnell & Thackston, LLP Highland Park Place 4514 cole Avenue, suite 500 Dallas, TX 75205
For the Defendant, Ford Motor company:
Nathan studeny, Esq.
(via telephone)
of
Roetzel & Andress
222 s. Main street
.
Akron, OH 44308
For the Defendant, Motion controls industries, Inc.:
Adam s. Wilcox, Esq. (via telephone)
of Gallagher, sharp, Norman & Fulton . 1501 Bulkley Building Cleveland, OH 44115
For the Defendant,`Honeywell international,
Inc., f/k/a Allied signal, inc., as
successor-in-interest to the
Bendix Corporation;
.
22
Michael R. Lofaick, Esq.
23
(via telephone)
of
.
24 25 0005
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. APPEARANCES
will man & silvaggio, l l p 5500 corporate Drive Suite 150 Pittsburgh, pa 15237
CONTINUED:
For the Defendant, Vermeer:
william n .g . Barron, iv,
(via telephone)
of
.
Esq. '
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Bowman and Brooke, llp 150 south Fifth street, suite 3000 Minneapolis, MN 55402
ST I P U L A T I O N S
r
^ Is stipulated by and between counsel
for the respective parties that the deposition of
Marcy Duncun, a witness herein, called as upon
cross-examination by the Defendants, may be
taken at this time and place pursuant to the Ohio
Rules of civil procedure and Notice and aqreement
of counsel as to time and pi ace.of taking said
deposition; and to be filed in the trial of this
cause; that the deposition was recorded in electronic
stenotype by the court reporter, George j . staiduhar
and transcribed out of the presence of the witness- '
and that said deposition is to be submitted to '
the witness for her examination and signature.
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0007
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,, ,
. nM R : MISMAS: we can put some stuff on
the record, a stipulation: That an objection by one is
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an objection by all.
.
MR. DORAN: That's fine.
, . . .
_ ,MR. MISMAS: Stipulate to the
quahtications of the court reporter under the rules of
the state of Ohio?
MR. d o r a n : That's fine.
, .
MR. m i s m a s : And this deposition is
being taken under the civil rules, under the Rules of
Evidence in the state of Ohio.
.
record?
Anything else you want to put on the
MR. DORAN: NO. MR', m i s m a s : okay.
MARCY DUNCAN or lawful age, a co-worker witness herein, was first dulv sworn, as hereinafter certified, and was examined and deposed as follows;
BY MR. MISMAS: . CROSS-EXAMINATION
whatever i.t$ may ,be. Go'od morning,' Mrs. or Miss Duncan
A me anything.
it is Mrs. Duncan, and you can call
.
y
, . . Q . Okay, we are here for you to qive deposition testimony in two casqs, in the sylvasy case
countyWn case'
are both pending in Cuyahoga
taken before?
And YU haVe had VUr dePosition
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A
Yes.
. . . Q , , How many times have you had your deposition taken before?
. A
Around 20.
.
.
Q
And let me just give you some general
background. I know you probably have gone throuqh this
before, but if you need to take a break at any time for
any reason, just let me know. I just need you to answer
the questions the best you can.
. ,, , , , you don't know the answer to a
question, I don t know is a perfectly fine answer.
A
All right.
'
, Q
You are under oath, you are under
oath today, so your testimony is the same as if you were
that?9 SWrn testimony in court. do you understand all
A b.efrore we Qstart`?
Yes. And. do you have any questions for me
A
No.
<
, . . Q . , . Okay. And you understand that the
deposition is being taken pursuant to civil Rule 30(Blf51
of the Ohio Rules of Evidence, civil Procedure, Ohio
Rules of civil procedure?
.
i.t means eAxactl,y, b,ut1 uind--erstand that, i don't know what
.
, Q.
okay. And you understand that Dana
nas produced you as the person most knowledgeable of the
areas of inquiry on the depo notice you received
correct?
'
A
Yes, sir.
your de'pos9iti.on todayA?nd what did you do to prepare for
A
r read through the master
16 interrogatory responses and the requests for admission
17 and request for production of documents.
18
q
okay.
19
A
I went through the -- for both
20 sylvasy and Brown, I went through the deposition notice
21 and all of the-items on the deposition notice and kind of
22 helped myself with tabbing on the discoveries where some
23 of the responses were from the interrogatories. And I
24 have the declaration affidavits^hat I went through for
25 both cases.
'
0010
1
q
uh-huh.
2
A
And I reviewed all those.
3
q
okay, we will mark those later.
4 '
But I just want to go through some
5 preliminary stuff. I am going to ask you questions now.
6 I don't want to know about any of the conversations you
7 had with your lawyers; I just want to know if you had
8 them.
9
Did you have any conversations with
10 any of.the lawyers from Dana prior to this deposition?
11
A
Yes, sir.
12
q
okay.And when was the first contact
13 you received?
.
14
A
would have -- Ican't remember
15 exactly when it was -- but it was to ask if I was
16 available for a deposition. ' I think it was about three
17 weeks ago, if I would be available for a deposition in
18 these cases sometime in -- within the next couple of
19 weeks, and I said yes, I would, in fact, I would be on
20 vacation this week and would prefer that.
21
q
Lucky you.
22
A
Well, because I have to take a day of
23 vacation from my job.
24
q ' okay.
25
A
since I was alreadyon vacation, I
0011
1 was not going to waste a day of*my vacation.
2
q
oh, absolutely.
3
A
so I said this week would be a good
4 week for me,and we had a couple other e-mail back and
5 forth to setthe time up, I believe, probably with your
6 office.
7
q
okay, who contacted you about this
8 deposition?
'
9
A
Danis Foley.
10
q
And who does Danis Foley work for?
11
A
cooper walinski, cooper and walinski.
12
q
is she a paralegal or an attorney?
13
a
No, she is an attorney.'
14
q
Have you had any other contacts with
15 anybody from Dana or other lawyers representing Dana
16 prior to that time?
'
17
. A
Yes.
18
q
And let'-s go chronological order, so
19 there is the first one three weeks ago. when was the
20 next one?
21
A
Well, during that first couple of
22 weeks was setting up the time, and I got a couple of
23 e-mails back and forth and "is Dune 2nd such and such?
24
"okay, yes, okay."
25
Yesterday or Sunday I received an
0012
1 e-mail from Laura Higgs from Dehay & Elliston, verifying
2 the time to meet this morning, and then after I got here
3 this morning, we had a teleconference with Laura Higgs,
4 perry Doran, and Janis Foley to make -- usually, it is to
5 make sure I am here for one thing.
6
q
okay.
.
7
A
And to ask me if there was any
8
questions that I had and to ask what I had reviewed.
q
And the "only things you had reviewed
9
10 is what's in that red -file right there?
11
A
Yes, sir.
q
y ou didn't review any other documents
12
13 or anything else?
14 15
A
no .
q
Did you talk to a man by the name ot
16 Doe lacoby about this deposition or anything to do with
17 it?
`
'
18 19
A
No.
.
.
q
i have to ask questions to jog your
20 memory. As I said earlier, no js a perfectly fine
21 answer. "I don't know" or "I have no idea is a
22 23
perfectly fine answer.
, ,
r
K
Did you talk to a man by the name of
24 Tom Radcliff?
25 .
A
NO.
0013 1
q
okay. And you did talk to m s . Higgs?
2
A
Yes.
q
And prior to today, had you talked to
3 4
m s . Hiqqs about anything else about this deposition? Did
5 6
you have any other conversations with her?
- A
_ Not that 1 recall, no. The only
7 thing was the e-mai'
8 that she sent me to
9 morning.
10
Q
. Did you talk to any currentor former
11 employees of Dana i i preparation for this deposition?
12 13
A
n o , sir.
.
.. . . ,
Q
And you live in Indianapolis, right?
14
A
I live in Lebanon.
15
Q
Lebanon?
16 17
A
Yes.
,,
Q
Lebanon spelled like the country?
18
A
Yes.
19 20
Q A
And how far
.
,
From here it is about 22 miles. '
21
Q
I just wrote down 20, so I was close.
22 22 miles, okay. 23
Did you review any documents,
24 pictures, anything
25 deposition?
0014 1
A
No, sir. only what I with me.
2
Q
It is Dana's position that chrysotile
3 4
asbestos can cause mesothelioma? MR. DORAN: objection.
5
Q
Do you want me to repeat the
6 question?
7 8
A . Q
Yes si r . That's one thing 1 forgot to tell
9 you. if you don't
10 don't understand ii
11 just ask me to repl
12 do it. 13
if 1 can figure out how to rephrase
14 it, 1 will.
15
A
That's fai r .
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Q
It is Dana's position that chrysotile
asbestos can cause mesothelioma, correct?
the question.
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
A Q the corporate correct? A Q
i have no way to answer that, yes. And you are'here today speaking as representative of Dana corporation,
For Victor sales, yes, For victor sales?
sir.
A Q about spice A
Q A . Q Lebanon? A local peopli I pronounce
Q should real today?
A Q who? A
Q do?
A vehicular ai
Q A Q
uh-huh.
okay. Because we are not talking
any things like that?
That's correct.
And you currently live in Lebanon?
Yes, sir, i do.
And you pronounce it Lebanon, not
I .don't pronounce it the same way the
And i know this is a question you
Today I am 59. okay. And your current employer is
Hoosier Gasket. okay. And what does Hoosier Gasket
They manufacture gaskets for the industrial market.
And were they ever part of Dana? No, sir. So when you left Dana, you just went
to work for Hoosier Gasket, which is a completely
separate company?
A
i went to work for Case New Holland
first.
- Q
I just wanted to get that out'of the
way where you are currently working.
I want to go through a little bit of
your history with Dana.
.
A
That's fine.
Q
And you graduated from high school in
'68 and went to work for Daria as an inventory clerk?
A
Ye's.
Q
And what did your duties entail as
inventory clerk?
_ A
At the time, I was with the service
Parts Division, which was the aftermarket portion of
Dana, and I had mainly posting cards that I would enter
incoming gaskets or products on to the inventory or take
invoices and decrease the amount on hand. That was
pretty much my job.
Q
okay. During this time period when
you were in the service Parts Division, did your job
duties include anything to do with asbestos?
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
the question.
' .
A
Not specifically. I was posting to
cards. I was not handling any product or anything like
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that.
clear? Q
know what asl working as a
A that time or
Q A recall. Q an asbestos- asbestos- con A know what a i Q that you had A Q A Q A
Maybe your question could be more
well, how about this: Did you even tos was at the time in '68 when you were rvice Parts Division person?
I don't know if I knew what it was at t.
okay. To be real honest with you, I don't
okay, could you at that point tell
taining gasket from a non
ning gasket?
At that time, I probably didn't even
ket was.
okay. I 'm sorry. I thought you said
ese posting cards?
.
Yes.
And those were for purchase orders?
They were part number. .
Part number?
Part numbers, it was like a huge
rolodex that d part cards on them. Each product that
was in the warehouse had a card for it.
Q
uh-huh.
A
And had, you know, the amount that
was on hand or sold or incoming, and so we would get
these big computer printouts everyday, and we would
have to make postings on these cards. The cards would
have part numbers and a description of what that part
was.
'
Q
okay.
A
And there were gaskets, piston rings,
cam shafts, and that type of thing.
Q
lust all kinds of stuff?
A
uh-huh.
#
Q
But part of 'yur job was selling
gaskets or - posting the cards with gasket orders on
them?
A
Recording sales and receipts of
gaskets.
Q
okay.
A
Yes.
Q
And so you don't really know whether
your job duties at that time had anything to do with any
asbestos-containing products at all, do you?
MR. d o r a n : objection to form.
A
At that time, I did not know,
Q
okay, d o you know today?
A
Yes.
Q
okay. And did it?
A
Yes.
Q
And were you aware at that time what
asbestos-containing products Dana corporation -- when I
say Dana corporation, I am talking about Victor Products
Division of Dana, can we agree on that? That's the same
thing?
.
A
Yes, sir.
Q
And if there is a difference, when I
ask a question, I am -- just clarify that for me.
A
Yes.
Q
is that fai r?
16
A
Yes. Yes, I will.
.
q
okay. Were you aware at that time
17 18
what asbestos-containing products Dana was selling?
19
A q .
Not at that time. okay. Are you aware now?
20 21
A
Yes, I am.
. _
22
o
Arid what products were those?
A
The gaskets, some of the gaskets had
23 24
asbestos i..n. t-h-e-m at that time that were being sold out or
25 the distribution center.
0020 1
Q
Which gaskets?
2
A
some of them.'
specifically?
3 '
Q
MR. d o r a n : Let me object to the form
4
5 of the question.
were gaskets that were
6 7
asbestos-containing and gaskets that did not have any
8 asbestos in them. They were both in th
9
Those gaskets consisted of, would be gaskets, exhaust gaskets, transmission 9 askats ',^ I v e
10 11
cover, oil pans, rear main cover gaskets, fly wheel
12 housing gaskets, basically all gaskets that would be
13
considered vehicular engine gaskets. And gaskets were also sold in sets,
14 15
such as an oil pan set might contain an o p Pan,gasket in
16 it and maybe a seal of some kind, some of the full sets
17
would contain o rings, and on miscellaneous connector type gaskets, some of those gaskets contained asbestos,
18
19
and some of them did not.
.
o
which ones contained asbestos?
20 21
a
I wouldn't know without looking at
22 part numbers and going back and looking at what those
23 particular gaskets were manufactured out of at the
24 25
t"ime`
q
okay, h ow about now, which of those
0021
1 2
qaskets contained asbestos? MR. DORAN:
objection to the form of
3 the question. 4
MR. MISMAS: what's wrong with the
5 . form? 6
MR. DORAN: Are you talking, does she
7 8
know now or produced now?
.
MR. m i s m a s :
if we are talking about
9
1971 we are not talking about --
, . .
'
MR. d o r a n : lohn, l didn t understand
10 11
your question. That's why I objected.
.
12 3
.
m r . m i s m a s : okay.
13 BY M R . MISMAS:
14
Q
in 1968, which of those gaskets
15 16
contained asbestos, and which did not?
A
sir, I don't know.
17 18
Q A
okay.
,
,
_
My answer would be the same, then, as
19 it is now. some of the gaskets contained asbestos* and
20
some did not. in order to find out which ones did, I would have to go back and look at all the part numbers
21 22
and look at the engineering records to see what the
23
components were during that period of time.
,
H
q
d o you have the ability to do that
24
25 now?
<3022 1
A
Yes.
2
Q
Is there a reason why you did not do
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that in preparation for your deposition today?
A
i didn't know what to look for. At
any given time, there were over 50,000 different gaskets manufactured, and there were a lot more that were
considered part numbers, when you put something in a
kit, it takes another part number to create the kit.
so you may have ten gaskets in the
kit sold individually as ten different part numbers and
then the kit would have another number, so you are
looking at a lot of different part numbers and gasket
numbers, and I didn't know what to look for.
Q
Did your job duties have to do
with the sale of qaskets for automobiles or something
else?
A
It was predominantly automobiles,
probably trucks, buses, some heavy duty like semitruck
diesel.
' . '
Q
Like a cummins engine?
A
Yes, because I was with the .
aftermarket division at that time, so it would have been
any gaskets that were available through victor in the
Service parts Division for the aftermarket sales.
Q
Now, let's just limit it down to
automobile gaskets, and in that time period; you had said earlier there were over 50,000 gaskets.
What percentage of those gaskets were
for automobile use rather than heavy equipment or marine
or anything like that?
A
I would-be guessing.
Q
We.ll, can you give me your best
estimate?
A
probably around 70 to 80 percent of
them. Very few of the gaskets that were sold from the
aftermarket were for heavy-duty applications.
Q
And for heavy-duty applications, what
are we talking about?
A construction,- like your diesel, there
were some diesel but not a lot.
`
Q
For diesel, we already mentioned
cummins would be one?
A
Yeah. When'l think of diesel, it
would be like class 8 in vehicular, so that would be like
your cummins, your Mack.
Q
Caterpillar?
A
Yeah, but cat was more construction.
Q
How about Detroit Diesel?
A
That would be class A Allison
engines.
Q A . q A q A
That would be -- Like semi. okay. Like cumminsand.Mack? Yes, uh-huh. h o w about Terrex? i don't recall them from those
days.
I do from later on.
Q
we are just talking about this time
when you were in the service Parts Division, and I think
it is from '68 to '71: is that correct?
A
Yes.
Q
'71 you went to oil seals, right?
A
Yes.
q
okay. And how about farm equipment?
A
Yeah.
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Q
okay. John Deer -
A
Tractors, John Deer, yes, sir,
international, case, I remember those.
Q How about Massey Ferguson?
A
Yes, Massey Ferguson.
'
Q
Did you sell gaskets -- in your job
as an inventory clerk at that point to sell gaskets for
any marine uses?
*
A
There were a few marine uses offered.
I want to clarify something, also. The sales out of that
- .
facility were not to any OEMs.
Q
okay. These were all aftermarket
parkets?
.
.
A
Yes.
Q
After-market parts. I said parkets,
which is not a word.
A
Yes. These were not OEM sales; these
were aftermarket.
.
Q
okay. And for the aftermarket sales,
the marine engines or transmissions or whatever you were
selling for, what marine engines were those for?
A
I remember Evinrude, Johnson, Mercury
Marine, o m c .
Q
How about for aircraft, anything for
aircraft engines?
MR. DORAN: Objection to form.
A name.
Q answer, if earlier.
A Q department, A
I don't recall. I don't recall that
okay. That's a perfectly fine you dc>n't know, you don't know like I said
' okay.
In 1971, you went into the oil seals
correct? Oil Seals Division.
Q
of Dana corporation?
A
Yes, sir.
.
Q
Bla, bla, bta. okay.
A
Yes.
Q
And what did your job duties entail
in the Soil seals Department. You worked there until I
think 1980. is that right?
A
Yes.
Q
And let's start at the beginning in
"71. what did your job duties entail in the oil seals
Department?
MR. d o r a n : if you need to refer to
something.
Q
I don't want you to refer' to
anything.
A
l don't-want to refer to anything.
MR. DORAN: Can we take a minute?
MR. m i s m a s : I object to side bar.
(Discussion held off the record.)
A
I 'm sorry.
Q
I don't want you to refer to
anything. I just want from your memory. Okay?
A
uh-huh.
Q And what did your job duties entail
during the '71 peiriod?
Al
got a job.at the oil seal plant in
production control initially. At that time, the victor
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Division was transferring their records from manual records to computer, and so my initial job was to start going through a lot of the engineering records and prepping them for the old key punch cards if you remember those. You probably don't.
, ,, Q
I do, and this is going to tell you
how old i am. i remember it from elementary school.
behind. A
All right, okay. I was not that far
,
r
But that was my initial job, was to
help to transfer those records or prep those records to
be key punched, and that was with the oil seal -- the
components and the part numbers and things like that.
,n. . Q still exist?
okay. And do these key punch cards
A
i don't know.
Q So your initial job was to take the cards and put them on .to a key card, right?
. ,
A
I didn't put them on the key card.
The key punch people did.
,
Q
uh-huh. *
.
A
what i did was i gave them -
basically what we did was we used a format to tell them
this was an engineering record, it might be the channel seal, and these are the dimensions,
and they would take that record and key punch that and make the card with all the holes in it.
. Q ,
And your engineering records, were
the engineering records the records of how -- what went
into the process of making the oil seals?
A
uh-huh, yes, sir.
.
'
. Q
Okay. And do you know what materials
went into making those oil seals?
A
Yes.
.
Q
And what materials went in them?
MR. d o r a n : Objection to form.
, _ A
well, the channel, the metal part was
made of usually 10-10 channel 8 steel, 008 steel in
various thicknesses. The channels were then molded with
various types of rubber from neoprene, nitrile, buna-in,
some silicone and some viton. some of the gaskets were
just two pieces of metal channels where you take the -- I
said gasket, didn't I? I meant oil seal. i 'm sorry.
Q . That's all right. Anytime you need
to correct anything or you think of something that came
back on a question I asked before, just say, "hey, John,
I need to correct something," and that's completely
fine.
A
okay, oil seals, basically you have
a metal formed cup basically, arjd some .of them you put a
rubber washer in or a felt washer in and then another
metal channel over it and clinch the two together.
some of them you edge molded around the id of the metal for sealing lip. some of the sealing lips had a garter spring, which was made out of music wire, various tensions of music wire that were used to give it a little bit more tension around a shaft when the oil seal was applied.
we had our own rubber making room, a Banbury, where we combined all the components and chemicals that manufactured our own rubbers, so we made our own buna-ins and nitriles and neoprenes there on site.
16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 _
25 ` 0030
1 2
3 4 5
6 7 8
9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 0031
1 . 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0032 1 2
Q And the rubber-making room with the Banburys, was any talc used in the process of making the rubber at Dana?
A
No. I don't remember any talc.
q
Don't remember any talc?
A
i remember a white -- started with a
B. I can't remember the name of it.
Q
And you said a white -- was it a
powder, or what was it?
' '
A
it went into the -- like at the end
.
because I remember some white streaks in the rubber material.
Q
And do you remember what this white
material was used for?
.A
No, no.
.
Q
I 'm sorry. I don't think you
answered my question, and I am not trying to be obtuse
here.
,
A
That's okay.
Q
But the white material, was it a
powder, was it a slurry? wHat was it? You said at the
end of the Banbury process, you put a white material in. Do you know what the white material was?
were dry stuff.
A chemicals.
Q A Q A
Most of the chemicals that went in so like a powder? Like a gunky stuff. Gunky stuff, a mud? No. It crumbled, like crumbling
Q
Like if you take this chalk and
crumble it up, that's what happens?
A
No. it was like oatmeal. That's
what it reminded me of, only not mushy.
Q the milk in?
okay. Like oatmeal before you put ' . '
A
Yes.
.
Q
And when you were starting out in the
oil seal Department, changing these engineering specs
into the punch cards, did any of those -- any of
those oil seals have anything to do with asbestos
whatsoever?
,
' A
No, sir.
Q
And did your job dutieschange
between the '71 and '80 period of time when you were
working in the oil seals Department?
. A
Yes.
Q
And let'-sstart from the first part,
in '71, you came in as what, the key punch lady?
A
well, no. Actually, I think it was
clerk, control clerk because that was the bulk of the
duties initially, and then I went to scheduling, helping
to schedule production, and during the time I was with
the oil seals, I also worked in purchasing. I worked in
sales, like customer service, sales rep inside.
I was back in production control in
an official scheduler'.s position for a while. I also was
a second shift production supervisor in the oil seal
finishing and molding areas for#a while. I think that
pretty much covers my responsibilities in the oil seal
specifically till 1980.
Q
And from 1971 to 1980, did any of
3 4 5
6 '7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0033 1 2
3 4 5 6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0034
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 . 11 12 13 14 15
your job duties have anything to do with asbestos in the
oil seal?
.
A
No, sir.
Q
And from 1971 to 1980 at that time,
did you know what asbestos was?
.
A
Yeah, i think I did during that time,
because it was used a lot in insulation, and at the time,
I was in apartments and houses having some of that kind
of stuff done.
- Q
And from 1971 to 1980, were you aware
of the dangers of asbestos?
A
Not that I recall, sir.
Q
And from 1971 to 1980 did. anyone from
Dana tell you about the potential harmful effects from
asbestos?
,
MR. d o r a n : objection.
A
i 'don'trecall, sir, no.
.
Q
is that a no, or you don't recall?
A
i don't recall.
Q
lust making sure the record is clear
because, you know, we have Mr. court Reporter taking
everything down, and I want to make sure our record is
clear when the .deposition transcript is transcribed.
okay?
A
Thank you.
Q
okay. And we established that from
the '71 to '80-time period, your job duties had nothing
to do with asbestos?
A
That's correct. .
Q
And asbestos was not used in the oil
seal Department at all?
A
That's correct.
Q
And were you aware that Danaproduced
asbestos-containing products at this time from '71 to
'80?
A
i don't remember what I knew
specifically at that time. I don't know.
" Q
okay. Are you aware today that Dana
produced asbestos-containing products between 1971 and
1980?
A
Yes, sir.
'
Q
And what products were those?
A
There were some of the gaskets that
had asbestos in them.
Q
specifically. I want to know
speci fically what products contained asbestos.
MR. d o r a n : objection, form,
A
some of the gaskets.
Q
Which ones?
A well
.
MR. d o r a n : objection to form.
A
some of the head gaskets, some of the
exhaust gaskets, some of the corjnector gaskets.
Q
when you say "connector gaskets,"
what do you mean?
A
You have -
Q
Actually, what's the function of a
connector gasket?
A
well, we kind of lumped a bunch of
like secondary gaskets into -- if it wasn't a head
gasket, exhaust gasket, like an exhaust manifold, intake
manifold, specific oil pan, it was kind of like -- if it
was not something you made a set out of, we dumped them
Q 16 into a category called connector gaskets, would be water
17 pump, transmission, rear main housing, like that. All of
18 them are actually like connectors because they are
19 between two pieces of housing or a fixture or something.
20
Q
Valve cover gaskets?
21
A
we just called those valve cover
22 gaskets.
23
Q
Did those contain asbestos or no? '
24
A
No.
25
Q
what were they made out of?
0035
1
They were made out of a combination
2 of cork rubber.
3
okay. You mentioned oil pan gaskets
4 contained asbestos?
5 ' ... ,A
No. I didn't saythat, we were
6 talking about valve cover gaskets.
7
.
Q
Valve cover gaskets, okay.
8
A
uh-huh.
9
Q . . Now, when we are talking about
10 asbestos-containing gaskets, what percentage of these
11 gaskets during this '71 to '80-time period were for
12 automotive use rather than heavy equipment, marine,
13 industrial, whatever?
14 .
A
Do you mean coming from the
15 aftermarket or the OEM?
16
Q
we will startwithaftermarket.
17
A
okay. And the question is what
18 percentage would be for -
19
Q
Let me reask myquestion, and maybe
20 that would be easy.
21
A
i'm sorry.
22 , ,
Q
, No, that's okay. Like I said, if you
23 don t understand my question, you just let me know,
24 okay?
25
For the aftermarket for automobile-
0036
1 gaskets, what percentage of the gaskets produced by
2 Dana/victor were for automobiles?
3
A
Probably 50 percent from the victor
4 gasket -- you know, victor gasket manufacturing area.
5
Q
And from '71 to '80 for the OEM, what
6 percentage of the gaskets were for OEM or are we mixing
7 up the two?
8
A
i am mixing up the two. i'm sorry.
9
Q
Okay.
10 ,
A
From a victor Manufacturing -- what
11 they manufactured -- okay.
12
Q
okay.
13 ,
,, A, ,
50 percent of the gaskets would have
14 been OEM and about 50 percent would have been for -- i'm
15 sorry. I am really screwing up now.
16
Q
That's okay. Take your time.
17
A
Automotive as compared to' -- 50
18 percent, of the gaskets would have been automotive related
19 as compared to heavy duty and construction from an OEM
20 standpoint.
.
21
, ., Q
Just let me get this straight here in
22 my head because I am not the smartest man in the world
23 so 50 percent of the gaskets were for automobiles whether
24 they were o e m or aftermarket, is that correct?
25
A
Yes.
0037
1
Q ' okay. And what percentage of the
2 automobile gaskets produced between this 1971 and
'
3 1980-time period contained asbestos?
4
MR. DORAN: `objection to form.
5
A
i don't know.
6 7
, , Q,
, And on the other 50 percent that were
produced, the gaskets that were produced, what percentacje
8 of those gaskets contained asbestos?
9 '
A
i don't know.
10 , . Q . , . I don't know if i ask asked you this
11 already but m this 71 to '80-time period, when we are
12 talking about automotive gaskets, what gaskets contained
13 asbestos specifically?
14
MR. DORAN: objection. Form.
15
A
i can tell you some of the gasket
16 types --
3
17
Q
okay.
18
A
-- that some of them would have been
19 made out of asbestos, and some of them would have been
20 non asbestos,
21
Q
Okay. `
22
A
Would be your head gaskets, your
23 exhaust system gaskets, which would be the exhaust
24 manifold, the intake manifold, the donut gaskets.
25
Q
That go between the pipes to the -
0038
1
A
The donut gaskets, uh-huh.
2
Q
Let me finish, that -- these are the
3 gaskets that go between the pipe that leads to the
4 muffler?
5
A
Yes.
6
Q
Okay.
7
, A
And some of the connector, what we
8 call the secondary type gaskets.
9
,Q ,
fr the head gaskets produced between
10 /l and 80, why would some contain asbestos, and whv
11 would some not?
12
A
Because there were several different
13 types of offerings for head gaskets made out of different
14 materials.
15
Q
okay. And what materials would those
16 be, one being asbestos, right?
17
,. A
Well, yeah, it would be asbestos
18 combined with other -- like your metals to hold the
19 asbestos mineral board.
20
Q
Okay.
21
A
Beaded steel was a popular one.
22 There was no asbestos in beaded steel head gaskets and
23 multilayered steel. There were are also graphite was
24 available during that period of time, graphite and
25 steel core.
0039
1
Q
Could all of these head gaskets serve
2 the same purpose?
3
MR. DORAN: objection to form.
4
A
They could serve the same purpose but
5 not necessarily for the same type of performance
6 requirement.
'
7
. Q
okay. And when you say performance
8 requirement, what are you referring to?
9
,. A
well, a lot`of times if you are
10 looking at high performance engines, you are looking at a
.11 lot of the beaded steel or the graphite, some of those
12 engines will get hotter, so youare looking for something
13 that will disperse that heat more evenly.
14 '
Q
And what about asbestos gaskets,
15 asbestos head gaskets, what were they mainly used
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0040
1 2 3 4 5
6 7
8 9 10 11 ` 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0041 1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0042 1 2
for? steel
A Q were used A
They were used to seal the engine. I mean, you just said the' beaded for high performance engines? Predominantly for high performance,
yes, sir. Q
asbestos gaskets A
so what type of engines were the used for? MR. d o r a n : objection to form. Non high performance.
Q
so low performance?
A Regular.
.
Q
Just your typical automobile?
A
A lot of times, yes.
Q
okay.
,
A
There were also the non asbestos and
asbestos were available for many of the engines.
Q
Let's talk about head gaskets, y ou
said there were between the '7 1 'and '80-time period you
said there were asbestos and non asbestos, correct?
A
That's correct.
Q
And what -- we know one was asbestos
for head gaskets, what were the other materials that
were used in the production of head gaskets for
automobiles?
A
Graphite, graphite onsteel core,
your multilayered steel gaskets, head gaskets, th beaded
steel.
Q
is that it?
A
For head gaskets?
.
q
Yeah.
A
You said non asbestoshead gaskets.
Q
We had asbestos, and then we were
talking about non asbestos head gaskets, and you gave me
graphite core, multilayered steel, and steel something -
A
Beaded steel.
Q
Beaded steel, okay.
Now, the asbestos head gaskets
between '71 ancj '80, what type of vehicles would those be
used on? would those be your typical automobiles as
well? A
' y ou could use the asbestos or the non
asbestos on any of the engines.*
q
okay. But were there typical
applications -- I know you just said you could use
either -- but like the -- you earlier said the beaded
steel was for the head gaskets. * were the beaded steel
for the head gaskets used on high performance vehicles,
correct?
manifold too?
"
A Q gaskets
A
q
A lot of times, yes. Now, were the beaded steel exhaust used on high performance automobiles, Could be, yes. could asbestos exhaust manifold
gaskets be used on high performance engines?
A
Yes.
Q
okay. And could asbestos' exhaust
manifold gaskets be used on your typical automobile?
A
Yes.
Q
And can you tell me percentage wise
what percentage of asbestos-containing exhaust manifold
3 4
aaskets were sold comparatively to the other types?
a
A
Hnio, csir, TI rdlonnn''t know.
5 6
gaskets.
Q NOW,
Now, you talked about your intake intake gaskets, we know that one form was
7 asbestos?
8
A
Yes, sir.
9
Q
correct?
10 11
A Q
yes.
,
okay. And what else of the intake,
12 gaskets were -- what other materials were intake gaskets
13 14
made
of
froAAm
'71 to '80? They
could
be
--
, the
same
_ ., materials
15 that I just mentioned that were`non asbestos offerings
16 for head gaskets could be used for the exhaust manifold
17 gaskets or the intake manifold gaskets as well and
18 19
were'
o
okay, what were asbestos intake
20 ' gaskets? what typically -- what type of automobiles were
21 22
those usedAon?
could be any of them,
23
q
could be anything from a race car to
24 25
a Yugo?
A
, That s correct.
,
0043 1
' q
n o w , the donut seal gaskets you said
2 some were asbestos, and some were not?
3 4
q
And what were the other materials
5 used besides asbestos and -
6
A
Graphite.
, ,
q
Between '71 and '80, the donut
7 8
gaskets were made from either -- they were either
9
asbestos or graphite, correct? . .
A
Graphite -- it is like a mesh type
10
11 12
stuff that they form it.
q
Let me try and ask it so it is
13 clear.
.
.
.
14
A
I m sorry.
q
Nothing to be sorry for. You are
15 16
doing to the best of your ability, and that's all I am
17 asking you to do. Between the -71 and 1980-time period,
18 19
the donut gaskets were either an asbestos based gasket or
20 a graphite based gasket?
,
.
21
A
Yes.
'
, . .. .
q
And what percentage during this time
22 23
period
from
'71
to
'80 were
asbestos
gaskets
sold
24
that's a bad question, strike that. The donut gaskets, we established
25
0044
1 they were made from either an asbestos composite or a
2 araphite composite, can you give me a percentage of
3 clonut gaskets that were sold that were asbestos compared
4 to the graphite composite?
5
A
No, sir.
,
, .
q
Now, the connector gaskets, the same
6 7
thing: . From the '71 to '80-time period, what percentage
8 of the _ x 'm sorry, we already understand the connector
9
aaskets, one type contains asbestos, correct?
y
a
The connector gaskets contained
10
11 asbestos. ^
Ancj wfoat other materials were the
12 13
connector gaskets made from besides asbestos?
14
A
some of them were made from
15 cellulose, it is like a papery cardboardy stuff, some
16 of them were actually made out of paper called a fish
17 paper. some of them were made out of compressed
18 . asbestos-containing that has binders, rubber binders, and
19 mineral rare earth, what we used to call it combined with
20 it cork, cork rubber. There was some materials called
21 Victorite and victolex. Those were the cellulose
22
fiber-containing materials.
q
what type of vehicle would the
23 24
asbestos-containing connector gaskets be used on 7
25
.
m r . DORAN: objection to form.
0045 1
-- from '71 to '80? .
2
MR. DORAN: same objection.
3
A
Any of them. Regular .automobi1es, could be used on
4
Q
5 those?
6
A
Yes, sir.
q
And what percentage of the gaskets
7 8
that were sold for use on automobiles of the connector
9 qaskets contained asbestos between '71 to 80 compared to
10 the gaskets that were made for other automobiles?
11
A
I don't know.
. .
MR. MISMAS: Let's take a five-minute
12
13 break. 14
(Recess had.)
15 BY MR. MISMAS:
16
Q
okay. I think I am done talking -
17 okay. From '71 to '80, oil pan gaskets, did any of them
18 19
contain asbestos? A
Not that I recall, no, sir.
20
Q
21 this right.
okay, in '80 you left -- let me get in '80 you left the o il Seal Department?
22
A..
in 1980, l actually didn't work for
23 the oil seal plant any more, what I did was, I rented
24
5pace from the oil seal manufacturing facility -
q
You can go ahead. I am just finding
25
0046
1 my pen. ^
__ anc( started working for the
2
3 industrial Distributor Division.
4
q
This is 1980?
.
5
A
1980, yes, sir. And I managed a
6 warehouse for the sale of industrial oil seals; that the
7 industrial Distributor Division, included in its product
8 line for sales, they s-old weatherhead hose and fittings
9 10
and other Dana products.
, ,
q
what s a weatherhead hose?
11
A
weatherhead is a brand name.
12 13
q
okay.
,
u .
A
it was a company that Dana had
14 acquired in the '50s, I believe, and they made hose for
15 16
various applications.
.
,,
Q
Automotive related or other?
'
17
A
some of it was automotive related,
18 yes, sir.
19
(
And what was the -- is there
20
anything -- let me just -- I can shorten this. Did any of the weatherhead hoses at
21 22
any point in time, did any of the weatherhead hoses ever
23 . contain asbestos?
24
A
NO.
so you sold weatherhead hoses, what
25
Q
0047
1 2
else were you in charge of selling?
A
I m sorry. I didn t sell them.
3 4
>n wno duueu
r U J
I didn't sell the weatherhead
5 product offering,
6 products.
so they just merged the two
7
Q
8
9
A
And how long did you hold this
10
Q
11 position?
12
A
The industrial Distributor Division
13 only handled
14 the power tr
15 line, so I
16 It was just
17 Dana.
okay. And what division was that?
18 19
Q A
power Transmission sales Division,
20
Q
so you were selling oil seals Yes t
21 22
A Q
-- at that point in time?
23
A
Yes, sir.
, ,,
And what years were those?
24 25
Q A
1980 and through 1985, I was
0048
1 2
responsi ble well, in '8` vith the Power rans>m
y , _ ^
3 I was here i-n Indianapolis and responsible tor
4 coordinatiti
5 division, oii
I forgot to ask you something
6 7
earlier. when you stated in '68, we.will talk fro 6
8
to '71 from '68 to '71, is there anyone that you know in pastor former employee Dana corporation capacity that
9 10
would know more about sale and manufacturing of
11 asbestos-containing gaskets?
12
A
Even though you didn't work selling,
13 14
Q manufTacturimnyg,
vo,rr aannvy+thniinncgi
ttoo
d"oV
with
asbets7tos-contaimng
15
caskets during that period of time, correct.
9
m r . d o r a n ; ob]ection.
16 17
A
okay. Let's back up.
18 19
Qa A
D o T k n o w anyone that knows more than
20 X do about the sale and manufacture of
iq71?
21 asbestos-containing
." " afis^irrent, a
22 23
.
former
employee
of
jana (.uipunauun: I would think a
few
people,
yes.
24 25
Q
And can I have those names?
0049
From an OEM standpoint would be
1
2 Charlie ulfig.
3
Q
And how do you spell Charlie s last
4 name?
5
A
u -l-f-i-g.
6
Q
u -l-f-i-g? '
'
7 8
A Q
Yisesh-e still al,.ive?^
9 10
A Q
And do you know where he lives?
11
A
He lives coal valley, Illinois,
12 reti red.
And do you know his approximate
13
Q
14 age?
pushing 80, 75 to 80, somewhere
15
16 around there.
17
Q
Do you know what his title was?
18
A
when he retired or back in '68 to
19 '71?
20
Q
'68 to '71.
21
A
He was a sales manager, account
22 manager for victor Products Division.
23 .
Q
And he would be the account manager
24 who was selling gaskets?
25
A
Yes, sir.
0050
1.,. . Q
And when he retired, do you know what
2 his title was?
3
.A
He was the heavy duty sales manager
4 tor the victor Products Division.
5
, Q
And anybody else from '68 to '71 that
6 would know more about the sale of asbestos-containing
7 gaskets by Dana or victor?
8
A
John Feldman, F-e-1-d-m-a-n.
9
Q
And is Mr. Feldman alive or deceased?
10
A
Al ive.
11
Q
okay. And where does Mr.' Feldman
12 1ive?
13
A
He is retired in Florida somewhere.
14
Q
And when was the last time you talked
15 to Mr. Feldman?
16
A
Fifteen years ago maybe.
17
Q
And do you know his approximate
18 age?
19
. . A,
I think him and Charlie were close.
20 He is in his late 70s somewhere, I think.
21
Q okay. And what was his job title at
22 that point in time between '68 and '71?
23 . . A
He was the light duty sales manager
24 for victor Products Division.
25
Q
And when yod say "light duty," what
0051
1 do you mean by that?
2
A
Automotive. ,
.
3
Q
And do you know when he retired?
4
A
I believe it was in the early '90s.
5
Q
okay. And do you know what his-
6 position was when he retired?
7
A
That was his position. I 'm sorry,
8 the light duty
9
Q
Executive sales manager?
10
A
Yes.
11
, . Q . okay. And anyone else from this '68
12 to 71 time period that would know more about victor sale
13 of gaskets, whether it is asbestos-containing or not,
14 than you, other than Mr. ulfig arid Mr. Feldman?
15
A
Not that I can recall still alive.
16
Q
okay. And let's go on to your next
17 job from '71 to '80 at the oil seal Department. I want
18 to ask you the same round of questions. And I will ask
19 you the question from |71 to '80, is there anyone that
20 you are aware of that is a current or former employee of
21 Dana or victor that would know more about the sale of
22 gaskets, whether it is asbestos-containinq or not between
23 1971 and 1980?
24
A * I would give you the same two names.
25
Q
The same two guys?
0052
1
A
Yes, sir. And actually, one would
2 know more about the light duty sales, and the other one
3
would know more abouttu h1IeCauvvy uduuit-jyf.
, .
And Mr. Feldman would know more about
4
Q
5 light duty?
6
A
Yes si r .
7
Q
And'from '80 on, it would be the same
8 two people?
9
A
Yes, sir, until they retired,
10
Q
would tliere be anybody else?
11
A
(shaking head no.)
12 13
Q
That's a no?
,
A
I'm sorry. Yes, sir, that s a no.
14
Qu
Remember all your answers need to be
15 verbal, and shakes of the head we can't do, and the other
16
thing, when we estimate something, you can t say something was this long because the court reporter can t
17 18
take down this .long, so you are .going to have to tell me
19 four inches, six inches, or in the feet or if you prefer
20 21
the metric system. A
I 'don't know th.e metri.c syst_em.
22
Q
Nor do I, but I can figure it out
23 later. 24
so in '80, '80 to '84-85, you were in
25 the Sales Division of the power .Transmission and Oil
0053
1 seals Division.
We]-|; it was actually like from about
2 3
81ish because the industrial Distributor Division only
4 sold the industrial oil seals through their division for
5 6
around a year before it switched.
. .,
q
okay. Were you selling both oil
7 seals and parts for power transmissions?
8
' A
q
Yes, sir.
. .
okay. And at that point in time,
9
10 11
a
May I qualify that a little bit?
12
, o A
oh, sure, sure, sure. It was not until 1984 when I moved
13 14
down to -- moved the oil seals down to Indianapolis that
15 we married that product up with the other power
16 transmission products in a distribution center here, an
17 I was responsible for the sales of their other products
18 as well. ^
okay. From -- let's go from here.
19 20
so from '81 to '84, you were just selling oil seals
21 still?
22
A
Yes.
And did any of those oil seals you
23
Q
24 were selling contain asbestos?
25
A
n o , sir.
0054 1
q
okay. And from '81 to '84, can you
2 tell me what products for automotive use that Dana sold
3 that contained asbestos?
4 ` 5
A
From '81 to 84?
.
q
Yeah, when you moved into this
6 7
different position.
A
There would still have
been some
8
qaskets that would have contained asbestos.
.
y
Q
And when you say ''gaskets, give me
9
10 11
specific examples of gaskets.
. .
y
A
The same ones that we have mentioned
12 before. That would be some of the head gaskets, some of
13 the exhaust: system gaskets, and some of the connector
14 type gaskets.
How akOL)t the donut gaskets again?
15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ' 0055
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0056 1 . 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0057 1 2
A I'm sorry. Those are exhaust system
gaskets so I just kind of wrapped those up in there, so
some of the donut gaskets would have contained asbestos
at the time. It just depends on the part numbers.
Q
How about oil pan gaskets?
A
No, not that I recall.
Q
How about valve-covered gaskets?
A
No, sir. They did not contain
asbestos.
' '
Q
what were valve-covered gaskets made
out of from '81 to '84?
A
cork rubber.
Q
And what were oil pan gaskets made
out of from '81 to '84?
. A
cork or cork rubber. .
Q
And can you give me a percentage of
head gaskets for the automotive -- for the automobile
industry, what percentage of head gaskets contained
asbestos versus which did not?
qualify that.
No, sir. From '81 to '84. I will
MR. DORAN: objection.
Let me reask that question because I
think that was bad question.
A
All right.
. Q
. From '81 to '84, in your position in
the oil Seals Division, can you tell me the percentage of
gaskets, head gaskets sold from victor that contained
asbestos versus those that did not contain asbestos for
the automotive industry?
A
No, sir.
Q
From '81 t o *'84, can you tell me the
percentage of exhaust manifold gaskets that victor sold
that were asbestos-containing versus those that were not
asbestos-contai ni ng?
f
A
No, sir.
Q
For the connector gaskets/donut
gaskets as we call them, can you tell me the percentage
of those gaskets sold to the automotive industry or for
the automotive industry that contained asbestos versus
those that did not contain asbestos?
A
No, sir.
.
' Q
so we have this '84-time period where
they merged the oil seal and Transmission Department, is
that right?
A
Basically, the Power Transmission
sales Division picked up the industrial oil seal line in
about 1981, and in '84, I moved it down to Indianapolis
where they decided to warehouse products from all the
manufacturing facilities that they represented.
Q
Okay.
A
And distribute them out of that
facility.
Q new name?
A sales Division,
okay. Did they give this division a n o . it was still power Transmission
Q transmi ssion?
A
Okay. And what's a power I think -- i don't know,
Q
okay.
A
The name of-a division.
3
. .Q
But were you selling parts for power
4 transmission -- for the power transmission or building
5 power transmissions?
6
. A
We were selling products that
7 transmitted power, that were components of -- components
8 of the equipment used to transmit power.
.
9
Q
So components of a transmission?
10
MR. d o r a n : objection.
11
A
i don't think you could call it that,
12 no.
13
, Q
okay. You are saying equipment that
14 would -- tell me this again.
15
it was equipment that could transmit
16 . power, that you were selling parts for that?
17
A
Equipment used in the transmission of
18 powe r.
19
Q
okay. And what equipment would that
20 be?
21
,
A
Like big boilers, industrial
22 equipment that would run stuff.
23
" Q
so Dana was selling boilers?
24
A
No.
25
Q
what parts of the boilers were they
0058
1 sel1ing?
2
.A
_ i am not sure it was boilers exactly.
3 I know it was big stuff, i can tell you the products
4 involved in that product line.
5
Q
can you tell us?
6
. A
There were Gerbing couplings,
7 G-e-r-b-i-n g, couplings, variable speed drives and
8 pulleys. There were elastomeric couplings. There were
9 drum clutches, Wichita drum clutches. There were
10 overrunning clutches, big, big units.
11
Q
overrunning clutches?
'
12
A
Overrunning clutches.
13
Q
okay.
14
A
As i recall,* I think thatwas all the
15 products we handled.
16
Q
what was an overrunning -
17
A
oh, I'm sorry, one more,
18
Q
okay, g o ahead.
19
A
silicone sealant, r t v was one of the
20 product lines.
21
Q
what does r t v stand for, do you
22 know?
23
A
NO.
24
Q
These overrunning clutches, what were
25 overrunning clutches used for?
,
0059
1
A
That was not one of the products. I
2 mean, I sold them because -- but ,we had sales people out
3 there. I was internal sales that moved the inventory in
4 the warehouse. That was not a product line I was
5 familiar with, other than the various part numbers and
6 sizes that we sold.
7
Q
Okay. Wichita drum clutch, what was
8 that used for?
9
A
i don't know.
10
Q
Do you know if either the Wichita
11 drum clutch or overrunning clutch contained asbestos?
12
A _ i don't know.
13
Q
You said Gerbing coupling?
14
A
That was a brand name.
15
Q
And what is a Gerbing coupling used
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0060
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 0061
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0062 1 2
for?
A
i don't know.
Q
And from this time -- I think I am
screwing up my dates. This was from '81 to '84?
A
'81 to '84 I only sold the oil seals
for Power Transmission Sales, it was not until May of
'84 when I became responsible for the selling of the -
internal selling of the other products out or the
warehouse.
Q
Did the PowerTransmission -- May of
'84 on, when you were selling Power Transmission products -
A
Yes, yes.
,
" Q
-- that's what they are called, power
Transmission products?
A
Yes.
Q
So from '84 until I think-you held
that position until '87?
A 1987.
Kindof-combined it, yes,until
.
*
Q
Did for any of the things you sold
for the Power Transmission line, the equipment, did any
of those have gaskets -- did you sell any gaskets for
that Power Transmission equipment?
A
No.
, , Q , Did you sell anything from that '84
to 87-time period during your employment with the
Dana corporation that .sold -- that contained asbestos?'
A
Yes.
Q
what did you sell?
A
Gaskets.
*
Q
And what gaskets did you sell that
contained asbestos?
A
During
.
Q
'84 to '87, what gaskets did you
sell -- what gaskets did you sell for Dana that contained asbestos?
A
The gaskets that were offered out of
the distribution center, the aftermarket distribution
center, some of them contained asbestos, and some of them
did not.
.
Q
okay.
A
The asbestos-containing ones --
Q
Yes.
.
.
A
-- would have been some of the ones
that we had mentioned before, the head gaskets, some of
the exhaust system gaskets, including the donut, some of
the connector gaskets.'
Q
Exhaust manifold gaskets?
A
Yes, sir.
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of the last question.
Q
Valve-covered gaskets, would
valve-covered gaskets have contained asbestos at that
time?
'
.
A
No, sir.
Q contained?
okay, what would they have .
A
cork and rubber.
Q
How about oil pan gaskets, would
those have contained asbestos during that '84 to '87 time period?
3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 . 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0063 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ' 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0064 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
A
No, sir.
Q
And what would they have contained?
A
cork or cork and rubber.
Q ' to beautiful Denver
A Q A Q face you enjoyed it A Q A Q A
All right. Colorado?
uh-huh. All right. Yes, si r.
So 1987, .
you get to move
And it looks like the look on your
I loved it. * . ' Did you do a lot of skiiing? No, don't ski. outdoor person? Yes.
Q
And what was your title when you went
there in 1987 to Denver, Colorado?
A
Branch manager.
" Q
And as a branch manager; what were
your job duties?
A
i managed a distribution branch, a
local distribution branch for the Dana aftermarket - - i t
was called warehouse operations Division at that time,
and it was an aftermar.ket distribution center, and I managed all the activities.
. Q
okay, when you say you were the
local distribution warehouse manager -- is that right?
A
That's correct.
.
Q
selling at that
A
Q
Colorado?
_ okay. -- what products were you time in '87 when you were in Colorado?
For that year, that I was in Colorado? Let me ask you just one question. ' How long were you in that position in
A
one year. `
Q A Q selling?
From '87 to approximately 1988? May of '87 to May of '88, yes, sir. okay. And what products were you
'
.
, a
_ i was selling gaskets, oil seals,
piston rings, pistons, sleeves, valves, cams, cam shafts,
weatherhead hose, couplings.
.
Q
okay. I read some of your prior
testimony, and you were the branch manager, correct? You
were the branch manager, is that correct?
. A
Yes, sir.
Q
okay. And who primarily were you
selling these products to?
A
well --
'
Q
in '87 in Colorado?
A
Distributors, it would be automotive
distributors, industrial distributors, jobbers.
Q
when you say -- did you have a sales
region?
A
we covered predominantly Colorado.
The answer to your question is kind of yes.
Q
okay, well, give me that kind of
answer.
A ` okay. Local branches were
responsible for the state that they were in as well as
existing territory such as for Colorado would be like
Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Utah,.some of Arizona, and some
of the branches overlapped. I would sell gaskets to
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 ' 23 24 25 0065
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 . 25 0066 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0067 1 1 2
facilities in California if neither one of the branches in California had the product that the customer wanted,
Q
if they are running low, they say
Ms. Duncan, can you send us 50 XYZ gaskets," and you
would send them out?
,
.
A
Correct, i would send them to the
distributor or directly to the customer.
Q
And you say to the distributors-, what
distributors were you selling to?
A
The names of the company?
Q
Yes, please.
. A
Parts, inc. was one, car-Go, and it
is c-a-r dash G-o, industrial Parts Depo, Napa. Those
were some of the ones I remember.
Q
And you were selling a full line of
victor gaskets '86 to '87-time period?
'
A
Full lines were not necessarily
available out of the branches.
Q
That was a bad question. Let me
reask it. You said you sold to n a p a , right?
A
Yes, sir.
so you would be selling automotive
gasket kits, correct?
A
Yes.
Q
Napa?
A '
Some of the kits, yes.
.
Q
And you would be selling intake
manifold gaskets -
A
Yes.
exhaust
Q manifold
A Q A Q
-- to Napa. And you would be gaskets to Napa?
Yes, sir.
And oil pan'gaskets to Napa? Yes, sir. Basically, let me just sum it
selli ng up.
You would be selling a whole line of automotive gaskets to, say, Napa?
A
i had available a full range for many
of the applications, but the branches didn't have the
full coverage. The local branches didn't.
Q
okay.
A
if that -- that doesn't reallv
explain it very well, does it? I'm sorry. J
Q
No. can you try to reexplain it for
me? I am not trying to put .you on the spot.
A
That's okay. The local branches
predominantly carried the slower moving product as a
general rule, not the higher moving more popular gaskets.
Those would come from the central warehouse, the big
warehouse in Indiana.
Q
okay.
A
The branches, there were 23 of them
around the united states, would carry the less popular,
let me call it that, but they would carry a full range'of
types, just a limited application.
Q
okay. And when you say less popular,
what are you talking about? wh^t type of gaskets are you
talking about?
.
A
oh, all type of gaskets -
Q
i am just asking --
A
-- of application. I guess it would
be in comparison to a small, block chevy, which would be a
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 ` 23 24 25 0068 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 . 25 0069
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
very popular engine, that most of your customers would
buy in larger quantities as compared to a corvette.
Q
okay.
a
which would be a lower volume less
popular item product at the time.
Q
okay. Let me ask you, were they
selling them in -- were you -- from this '87 to May of
'88-time_period, were you selling them in bulk, or were
you selling them individually?
A
No. Bulk sales out of the branches.
They were either sold in kits or individual packages,
those gaskets that were available in individual packages.
There was some of the small connector gaskets that you
could buy in like an envelope, like ten of them.
Q
okay. Because if you are going to do
the whole exhaust manifold, you are - - i f you are going
to do the whole exhaust system, you are going to need
multiple gaskets to go in there,, right?
A do that job.
Yes. You would normally buy a kit to
_
Q
Now, the main parts center in
Indiana, I just want to talk to you generally about the
main parts center in Indiana.
Do you have knowledge about the main
parts center in Indiana?
.
A 1968.
Yes, sir. That's where I started in
.
Q
l just wanted to make sure, we are
going to talk '68 to about '80, that main parts center in
Indiana.
A
Yes. '
Q
And the main parts center in Indiana
did they sell in individuals, in bulk, or both?
A
Do you want to qualify?
Q
Gaskets?
A
d o you want toqualify what I just
talked about like ten water pump gaskets being in a
little envelope as bulk?
.
Q '
I am talking about, say you are
selling to Napa and they want intake manifold gaskets,
would they sell those in bulk to Napa, or would they sell
those as individual gaskets to Napa?
MR. d o r a n : objection to form.
A
They would sell them inindividual
gaskets or individual gasket sets.
Q
lust -- so if they wanted 500, if
Napa wanted 500 victor gaskets, intake manifold gaskets,
they would sell each one individually packaged?
A
Q them?
A ' Q
A Q Napa brand?
correct, in a kit. Would those say "Dana" or "victor" on
To Napa?
.
Yes?
Not normally.
so would Napa then rebrand those as a
MR. DORAN: objection to form.
A
Napa packaging with Napa's name on it
was done at the customer request, at the distribution
center.
Q
so at the distribution center, you
would repackage, say, exhaust manifold gaskets with the
Napa name on them, is that correct, if they requested
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0070
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ` 0071 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0072 1 2
that?
A
it was not arepackage.
Q
You just stamp it on there? How
about this? we will make it real easy. Explain the
process to me --
,
A
Yes, si r . '
Q
-- for Napa.
A
The aftermarket packaging center
would purchase the gaskets from victor Manufacturing in
bul k --
Q
okay.
. A
-- in a box with a thousand of them
in it, depending on what thegasket was. '
Q
okay.
A
Then when an order would come through
from Napa, if it -- if they ordered 500 of the specific
gasket and they wanted it packaged in Napa packaging,
then it would be packaged with Napa's label on it.
Q
okay. And do you know when Napa
became a customer of Victor?
A Dana corporation?
Q
During the Yes.
time that I worked for
A
They werenot acustomer of Victor
direct; they were a customer of the warehouse or service
Parts Division -or warehouse operations Division of .
Dana.
.
Q Victor gaskets?
A
okay. But these were Dana gaskets or ,
Yes, si r .
Q
That's one thing. Do you know -- you
said they were a customer of who, the product
distribution center?
'. .
A
The ServiceParts Division, which
later was renamed to be the warehouse operations
Division.
Q
And to your knowledge, from the time
you started in 1968, was Napa a customer of the Service
Parts Division?
- A
Yes, sir.
Q
okay. And from 1968 on, was Napa
buying head gaskets from the Service Parts Division of
Dana?
.
A
Yes, sir.
_
Q
And were they buying exhaust
manifold -- was Napa buying exhaust manifold gaskets from
1968 on fromNapa? '
A
on to sometime in the 1990s when Napa
was no longer a customer of Dana's.
Q
okay, so Napa -
A
so i want to put in -
Q
No. And that's fine.
A
. okay.
.
Q
so Napa then became not a customer'of
Dana in the mid 1990s?
A that's correct.
sometime in the 1990s, yes, sir,
Q
okay. And was Napa buying oil pan
gaskets from the service Parts Division of Dana from '68
until sometime in the mid '90s?,
.
A
Yes st r .
Q
And was Napa buying these exhaust
3 gaskets or the donut gaskets as we call them from 1968
4 from the Dana -- from the service parts Division of Dana
5 until sometime in the mid 1990s?
Uana
6
.
A
yes, sir.
7 8
--ha a,i i- ^
okay. And we talked about some of
9 service Paris'DiiisiS -- ^ 3 11tt1e mre abUt the
10
A
Yes, sir.
11 12
Q
-- and their customers.
13 already, right?
so we have Parts, inc. you named
14
A
Yes.
'
15 16
Q
Car-Go?
A
Yes. '
17 18
Q A
industrial Parts Depot? Yes, sir.
19 20
Q
who else?
A
21
Q
Motion industries, command Bearings
How about Fel-pro?
u
22 23
A
Yes, Fel-pro.
Q
How about Mccord?
24 25
A
Yes, McCord. I would say there were
0073 a lot of local j o b b e r H i k e in he~ i...S d 'i a ^ S S e r area.
1 I can't remember
2
Q
3 stuff like that?
Like Sunoco stations and Marathon,
4
A
No. These were -
5
Q
Joe's Garage? .
6 7
A
-- mom and pop's automotive shop.
8
, buy any
Q gaskets
From 1968 to the mid from any other company?
'90s,
did
Napa
9 10
MR. d o r a n : objection.
A
Yes.
11
Q
12 from?
And who did they also buy gaskets
13 14
McCord and Fel-pro.
15
late objection.
m s . s p a r d o n e : i will interpose a Form and foundation.
16 BY MR. MISMAS:
17 18
customer
Q of
the
Do you know when Fel-Pro became Service Parts Division of Dana?
a
19 20
MS. s p a r d o n e : Same objection
Q
was it the '80s, '90s, do you know?
21
A
I don t know.
22 ,
Q
23 when they became
And how about Mccord, do you know
24 of Dana?
a customer of the service Parts Division
25
A
No, sir.
0074
1 2
Q
And in '87 when you moved to Denver
3 gaskets?
^ W3S Se11ing ^ t o s - c o n t a i m ' n g
4
A
Yes.
'
5 6
. .9
And are these the same aaskets we
mentioned before, the exhaust manifold, the intake
7 manifold, head gaskets, all those things?
8 9
MR. d o r a n : objection. Form
10 get out ofQline?
y dn,t y" 11st them 50 do"'t
11 12
, ^ A,
You are correct, some of the head
13
exbau^t system gaskets, including the donut gasket, some of the connector gaskets contained asbestos
14
15 part of the ilibneem wdalsd nsoolidi oauntd otfheVthewerDeenavner.warweehlolu?sewwhaast
16 the same.
17 .. , Q,
okay. And so in '88 you moved to --
18 is it, how do you say L-i-s-l-e?
19
20
21 t h a f s in Illinois?
* * - . " " 5 is s11ent' A"d
22 Tll. . A
. it is a suburb of Chicago in
'
23 Illinois, yes, sir.
24
Q
And I was reading some of your prior
25 testimony, and you started there May 23rd, 1988?
0075
1
A
That's correct.
2
0 .
And you became the sales operation
3 . manager of victor Reinz Division?
4_
, A ..
At the time, it was actually victor
5 Products Division.
6
Q
okay.
7
A
Yes, sir.
8
w. Q
And what type of products did victor,
9 the victor Products Division, sell at that point in time
10 as of May 23rd, 1988, when you started working there?
11
A
Gaskets.
12
Q
And were you selling any
13 asbestos-containing gaskets?
.
14
A
no.
15
^. Q
And you .are aware that victor claims
16 17
June of 1988?ed prdUC''ln9 asbestos-containing gaskets in
18
A
June of 1988.
19
Q . . so would you have been selling
20 21
?19Aoo8f?otos_containing gaskets between May 23rd and June of
22
A
Probably not.
23
Q .
And what's the basis for that
24 statement?
.
25
A
Let me requalify that. Yes, we could
0076
1 have sold asbestos-containing gaskets during that period
2 We stopped manufacturing the last asbestos-containinq
3 gasket in June of 1988.
4
. ,Q
okay. And you are aware that victor
5 continued to sell those gaskets until 1990, correct?
6 7
asbestos
A were
. . SorPe sold up into
those gaskets that contained the early 1990s, yes, sir.
8
0
Can you tell me why victor continued
9 to sell asbestos-containing gaskets after they ceased the
10 manufacture of them in 1988?
y
11
A
customers' request.
12
Q
Was it also to clear the inventory7
13 14
,_ A
No, because if a customer didn't want
asbestos any longer, whether we had inventory or not he
15 would not have received asbestos gaskets.
16 17
,
Q
I guess my question is, the asbestos
gaskets, if you went to non, all non asbestos-containinq
18 gaskets in 88, why didn't you just get rid of all
9
19 asbestos-containing gaskets?
20
MR. d o r a n : objection.
21 22
i-. ., + ?
It gets complicated, a transition
like that becomes as much of a burden on the customer as
23 it does on the manufacturer with depleting inventories as
24 well as all the paperwork attached to making an
25 engineering change to a product.
0077
1 ,. , ,
Q ,
would Dana have lost money if it
2 uidn t sell those asbestos-containing gaskets through the
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 0078
1 2 3 4 . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0079 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
90s?
MR. DORAN: Objection.
A
NO, sir.
Q
How so?
MR. d o r a n : objection.
. A
As a general rule those customers
would have contracts, blanket, like a blanket purchase
order with the manufacturer of the gaskets, and that
contract or purchase order itself dictates what amount of
product that could be manufactured that the buyer would
be responsible for financially.
Q
okay. As of June of 1988, when they
stopped producing asbestos gaskets, why did Dana have so
many asbestos gaskets on hand if they could still sell it
for three to five years?
.
a
we didn't have a huge amount
available. I don't know exactly how many, but it was
very important to the division and to the corporation to
try to make a clean cut, a line in the sand.
Q ' Uh-huh.
.
A
But there were a few of the gaskets
that we had in inventory that had been produced on
contract for customers.
.
Q
okay, so if they were being produced
on contract for the customers, would victor still be
producing asbestos-containing gaskets after June of 1988?
a
n o , sir.
Q
Now, if victor did not sell those
asbestos-containing gaskets that were on hand after June
of .1988, they would nave lost money, wouldn't they?
MR. d o r a n : objection.
A
if they had not sold them?
Q
Yes, ma'am.
- A
Yes.
.
MR. MISMAS: we have been going another hour. Do you want to go to lunch?
MR. DORAN: The preference is to push through, and she is on vacation and have flights.
BY MR. MISMAS:
(Discussion held off the record.) (Recess had.)
.
.Q
And you came back to Lisle after we
were talking there -- i am going to ask you another
question real quick.
Are you familiar with a company called Genuine Parts company?
A . Yes, sir. .
Q
And how are you familiar with Genuine
Parts Company?
A
They were the parent of Napa.
Q
okay, so all the gaskets that we
talked about from '68 to the mid '90s, those were Genuine
parts -- did Genuine Parts pay those bills, or did Napa
pay the bills?
A receivables.
i don't know, i was not in .
.
Q
But you -- let me just ask you
this: But for the Napa rebranded gaskets, those were -
Genuine Parts was the client?
MR. d o r a n : objection.
. A
i don't know exactly what their
payment arrangements were, but I do know that
Genuine parts owned Napa or that was theirs.
16
okay. That's cool. That's all i
17 needed to know.
Now, '88 we are in Lisle, Illinois?
18 19
A
Yes si r.
.
what year did you retire or leave
20
Q
21 victor-Dana?
22
A
I Teti red on March 31st of 2006 but
23
continued to work in the same capacity until November of '2006. I worked for Manpower under contract to the
24
25 Victor Division.
0080
q
okay. And from '88 on till 2006, did
1 2
vou hold the same job title?
3
A ` Yes, si r.
,. ,, `
o
were you doing the same thing?
.
4
a
There were different responsibilities
5 that were added to my sales operations manager s tasks
6 7
throughout that time.
. .. , . . .
8
y o
okay. All righty. okay. And when you retired from
9 10
victor/Dana, did you have a retirement'package, or did
11 . yougot a buyout? ^
objectio,,.
12 13
A
I iust got my pension.
.
okay. And what does your pension pay
14
Q
15 you from Dana?
y
MR. DORAN; ob,j.ecti.on.
16 17
A
I got a lump sum.
18
- n
a
You just got a payout?
...
i got a lump sum of my -- we had the
19 oDoortunity to either take pension, you know, whenever
20 21
you decided to start receiving pension payments at
22 retirement age 62 or something like that
23
o
uh-huh. .
, -i r
a
-- or a lump sum of what the value of
24 25
your pension was at the time, and I took the lump sum.
0081
q
And how much was the lump sum?
1
MR. d o r a n ; objection.
2 3
A
$217.
Q
Not too shabby.
5 6
A
38 years.
.
Q
Do you own stock in Dana?
7
A
Does Dana provide you with healthcare
8
Q
9 coverage?
10
A
is'Dana paying you to be here today
11 12
to
act
as
Q a
corporate
witness?
,
13
A
Yes sir.
.
And'how much are they paying you?
14 15
Q A
$100 an hour before tax.
16
Q
And do you have prep time that you
17 18
have to bill for these depositions?
A
Yes si r .
19
Q AThned'hsoawmemuacmhoundto. you charge Dana?
20
A
And before you retired, you had acted
21 22
as a corpoQrate witness for Dana, true?
23
a
Yes, sir.
, .
...
q
And did they pay you when you did
24
25 that, too?
.
0082 1
Aa
q
No, sir.
,,
You just did that as part of your
2
Q
3 4
normal job duties?
.
A
Yes, sir.
.
.
5
Q
And when was the last time you
6
testified in any capacity for Dana or victor?
A
i believe it was lanuary of this
7
8 9
year -- March, i'm sorry.
"
o
March, okay.
10
And did you know the name of the case
11 12
that you testified in?
y A
1 don't remember.
. No, sir.
13
q
d o you know who the plaintiff s
'
14 15
lawyer was? A
. No, sir.
16
- q
d o you know where the case was
17 pending. ^
^ don,t retnember.
,
18 19
q
okay. Like l said, you don t know,
20
vou don't know. No big deal.
_
^
Anything change between any of your
21 22
depositions -- have you learned anything new between the
23
time -- let me strike that.
.
when was the first time you gave a
24
25 deposition for Dana?
0083 1
A
I believe it was 2001.
.
2
Q
2001. And you said you have given
3 4
about 20 depos A
ions over your span?
.
Approximately, yes, sir.
,
5
Q
Have you ever testified in a trial
6 for Dana?
7
A
Yes si r . *
8 9
Q A
And where was that trial at? one of them was in Virginia Beach.
10
Q
Okay. And approximately when was
11 that?
12 '
A
Early 2000s, I don't recall the exact
13 date.
14
Q
Did you ever testify in another trial
15 for Dana?
16
A
Yes, si r .
17 18
Q . A
okay. And when was that? Early 2000s. I don't remember the
19 exact year.
20
Q .
That's okay, lust -- do you remember
21 22
where the tri A
was at? Portland, Oregon.
.
23
Q
Any other trial?
24 25
A
No, sir.'
,
,,
Q
Those were the only two?
0084
1
A
Yes, sir.
,. ,
And you are being represented here by
2
Q
3 counsel toda>
4
A
Yes si r .
.
5
Q
okay. Mr. Doran and Ms. Higgs?
6
A
Yes, sir. '
'
And you are not here to deny that
7
Q
8
9 are you? 10
MR. d o r a n : objection.
11
a
The gaskets?
12 13
a
That victor'manufactured -
14 .
q
You are not here to deny that the
15 victor gaskets that Dana manufactured caused
.
16 mesothelioma, are you?
'
17
MR. DORAN: objection.
18
A
I am not an expert. No, sir, I am
19 not here for that.
20
q
i think we just got -- and you are
21 not a medical doctor?
22
A
n o , sir.
23
. q
why is it that you have.personally
24 been designated as corporate representative of Dana?
25
A
r am here because I have a lot of
0085
1 knowledge and work experience with the victor gaskets,
2 and they asked me to come and talk about them.
3
q
And it is victor's position that
4 exposure to asbestos from victor's gaskets can cause
5 mesothelioma, correct?
6
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
7 the question.
8
A
No, sir.
9
q
And what is your knowledge of that
10 based on?
11
A ' Based on the composition of the
12 gaskets, how they were made.
13
q
And does Dana maintain a record of
14 sales of their products to othes companies?
15
A
Yes, sir.
16
q
And i believe you testified in the
17 past there is something like a 177-page document of who
18 their customers were?
'
19 .
A
The historical customer master
20 contains approximately 170 to 180 pages.
.
21
q
And what is listed on there?
22
.
a
customer names, addresses of places
23 that victor sent something to, whether it was
24 correspondence or gasket samples or gaskets.
25
q
d o you know where that master.list
0086
1 is, is located?
2
a
Yes. it is in the repository in
3 Toledo, Ohio.
4
MR. m i s m a s : And I will ask perry to
5 provide me with a copy of that list.
6
MR. d o r a n : You make a formal
7 request, and we will address your formal request.
8
m r . m i s m a s : okay.
9 BY MR. MISMAS:
10
q
And do you know when victor/Dana
11 first got into the business of selling
12 asbestos-containing products?
13
A in 1909 Victor Manufacturing, a
14 gasket company --
15
MR. m i s m a s : Let's go off the record
16 for two seconds.
17
(Pause.) *
18
A
May I correct my last statement?
19
Q
sure.
20
A
l believe I .answered it incorrectly.
21 You asked about Victor/Dana. That would have been 1967.
22
q
h o w about Dana itself?
23
A
Dana never -- Dana was the
24 corporation, and that was the people, it was the
25 divisions that sold the products.
0087
1
Q
okay.
2
A
if that makes sense.
n
No, i understand. And I don't want
3 4
to try to get into a discussion-of.corporate law with
5 you, but do you understand a division is part of that
6 corporation?
7
q
so it is your testimony it was not
8 9
until
1967
that
Dana
corporation
started
selling
10
asbestos-containing products?
A
Gaskets.
11 12
.
o
Gaskets, okay. you don't know whether or not Dana
13 14
cniri a<;hestos Dana corporation sold asbestos-containing
15 p S d u S s prior to1967 other than they started sell tog
16
gaskets in 1967, correct?
a
correct.
, ,
r
17
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of
18
19 the last question. ^ yQU fami-|iar with a product from
20 21
Dana called spray Craft?
...
22 ua
H
m r . d o r a n : objection.
23
A
n o , sir.
,
q
And do you know where Dana s
24
25 corporate headquarters is?
0088 1
Toledo, Ohio.
2
And you are aware that -
3
which Dana?
Dana corporation.
.
4
There is no Dana corporation any
5
6 more.
Dana companies, l l c ?
7 8
perrysburg, Ohio.
9
And are you aware that Dana corporation's headquarters-moved to Ohio in
10
11 1928?
12 '
A o
Around that time.
,
as the corporate representative ot
13 14
Dana, do yQou believe that Dana had a duty to follow the
15
laws and regulations of the State of Ohio.
A
Yes, sir.
... . ^
16
Q
This is going to be Exhibit 2
1178 MR. m i s m a s : we will mark this as i
19 and the notice of depo as
Doran Deposition
20
Exhibits 1 and 2 were marked
21
for identification.)
22 23
(Pause.)
2245 Aq oRekaadyy., m s . Duncan?
0089 1
a
Yes, sir.
, ...
n
okay, can you turnthatfirst page
2 3
over? That's just a document authenticating the
4 document.
DO
see the first page,it says
5 6
"legal requirements for the prevention and " ntrol of
7
industrial public health h|zr^ . ^vision of J ^ st^ al6 _ Hygiene, Ohio Department of Health, Columbus, onio.
8 9
Regulations for the prevention and control of diseases
10
resulting from exposure to toxic fumes, vapors, mists, and dusts in order to preserve and protect the
11 12
nublic health adopted by the Ohio Public Health council
13 Sffeciive rebr" ?y 16th, 1946, filed with the secretary.,
14
1947-
15
16
A
Yes, sir.
'
17
q
n o w , can you turn the page, and do
18 you see about halfway down where it says regulation 247?
19
A
Yes, sir.
20
q
Regulation 247, "harmfulexposure ?
21
A
Yes. I'm sorry.
22
q
okay.
23
A
Yes, I see it.
.
.
24
q
"No employer shall useor permitto
25 be used in the conduct of nis business, manufacturing
0090
1 establishment, or other place of employment any process,
2 material, or condition known to have an adverse effect on
3 health unless regional provisions have been made to
4 prevent injury to the 'health of the employees and of the
5 6
"The concentrations of dusts, fumes,
7 mists, vapors, or gases and the air breathed by employees
8 shall not exceed the following maximum allowable
9 concentrati`ons for an eight-hour daily exposure." do you
10 see that?
11
A
Yes, sir. '
12
Q
Did I read that correctly?
13
A
Yes, sir.
14
Q
And if we turn the page, it says
15 mineral dusts all the way like -- about eight tenths of
16 the way down.
17
A
I see it.
_
18
Q
It says mineral, dusts, and it says
19 . asbestos?
20
A
Yes.
.
21
Q
And this is one of the materials that
22 this regulation was regulating, correct?
23
A
Yes.
24
MR. d o r a n : objection.
25
q
And you told me earlier that Dana had
0091
1 a duty to be aware of the laws and regulations of the
2 state of Ohio, correct?
3
A
Yes, sir.
4
q
so Dana had a duty to be aware of
5 this 1946 regulation?
, .
.
6
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
7 the question. calls for a legal conclusion.
8
Q
y ou can go ahead and answer.
9
A
I would think, yes.
10
Q
okay. And Dana would have known in
11 1946 that Dana would have known in 1946 that injury to
12 their workers from exposure to their employees and to the
13 public by asbestos could cause strike that again.
14
That Dana would have known by 1946'
15 that injury to the heailth of the employees and/or the
16 public could be caused by asbestos, correct?
17
MR. DORAN: 'objection to the form of
18 the question.
. .
19
A
in unregulated conditions, yes.
20
q
Toss that one. I have one more
21 question, you don't have to look at it.
22
Did Dana have a duty to test its
23 asbestos-containing products, which it was selling in
24 Ohio, while at its corporate headquarters in Ohio to see
25 if their use would violate the requirements of this
0092
1 regulation?
2
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of
3 the question. Predicate, foundation, calls for a legal
4 conclusion, and it is irrelevant. There is no
5 evidence
M R _ m i s m a s : No speaking objections.
6 7
you can say "irrelevant." No speaking objections.
8 That's fine. You can say irrelevant, but no speaking
9 objections.
M R _ DOr a n : objection to the form of
10
11
the question, same reasons.
A
Dana relied.on public and
12 13
governmental tests concerning the gaskets that I know of
14
to make sure they were within regulations.
q
okay. But that s not my question.
15 16
(Question rdad..)
,
17 .
MR. DORAN: objection to the form ot
18
the question, calls for a legal conclusion.
A
i don't know.
. ,
19 20
.
q
That's a fair answer. You don t
21 22
^noW`
once a company has knowledge of the
23 danqers of a hazard such as the hazard created by.
24 asbestos, do you expect the company to pass it on --
25 strike that -- once a company has knowledge ot the
0093 1
dangers
of
a
hazard
such
as
asbestos,
do
you
expect
the
2 company to pass on its knowledge to the end users of its
3 products?
d o r a n : objection to the form of
4
5 the question.
^ their products create a hazard,
6
7 yes. 8
o
Th,ank, you.
9
d o you have Mr. sylvasy s answers,
10 Dana's answers to interrogatories in front of you?
11
A Yes.
.
MR. m i s m a s : And that will be
12
13 Exhibit 3.
(plaintiffs' Doran Deposition
14 15
Exhibit 3 was marked
16
for identification.) I take for granted you have seen
17
18 these before?
19
A
Yes sir.
20
responses
Qwfor
first
And these are master set of
Dana companies, interrogatories
LLC
s
21 22
propounded to all defendants in the Frank sylvasy case,
23 which is case No. CV695277 in the court of common Pleas,
24 Cuyahoga county, Ohio, correct?
25
A
Yes, sir.
0094 1
' q
can you turn to Page 13? Actually^
2 can you turn to the last page for me, please? And that s
3 your verification?
.
4
A . q
Yes.
.
And you verified the answers to these
5
6 interrogatories?
7
A
Yes.
8
o
Thank you.
Now, can weturn to page 13? And do
9 10
you see right in the middle where it says Ever sell
11 Asbestos"?
12
A
Yes.
_
,,.
q
And questionby (b) 1states has
13 14
Defendant ever'engaged in the mining, manufacturing,
15 selling, marketing, installation, or distribution o
16 asbestos-containing products, including equipment of any
17 kind containing asbestos of any form? if so, please '
18 19
state the following: '
,
,
. ,
"(b) a s to each product mined,
20 manufactured, sold, marketed, installed or distributed,
21 please state the following: .
22
1. Trade name or brand.
23
d o you see that? .
24
A
Yes, sir. '
25
q
okay, can you turn the page?
0095
1
A
Yes, sir.
,
2
q
And then we are just talking about
3 (b) and a long answer, and the answer to (b) 1., it
4 says^ "brand or trade names for victor Products Division
5 gasket materials included Asbestocore, Asbestopac,
6 Asbestoprene, coramic, corbestos, corpac, Nitroseal,
7 8
soli cor, Thincor, Tuff-cork, victocor, victopac, victoprene, victolex, victor, and victorite. Not all of
9 these materials contain asbestos."
10
.
Did I read that correctly?
11
A
Yes, sir.
12 13
asking
Q which
And if products they
we go back to 5 (b) produced containing
it is asbestos,
14 correct?
15
A
correct.
16
Q
It is not asking which products you
17 manufactured and sold that did and did not contain
18 asbestos, correct?
19
A ' correct.
'
, .;
20
q
so the answer to that question isn t
21 quite accurate is it?
22
A
correct. ,
23
Q^
okay. Now, since the question isn't
24 quite accurate, I want to ask you about each of these
25 materials, and you can tell me whether they contain
0096
1 . asbestos or not.
2
A
okay.
.
3
Q
okay. Let's look at, first,
4 Asbestocore, did that product contain asbestos or not?
5
A
Yes.
6
Q
What years?
7
A
I don't know.
.
8
- Q
When was it first produced?
9
A
i don't know.
10
Q
when was it last produced?
11
A
No longer produced after lune of
12 1988. I do not know the last time it was produced prior
13 to that.
14
Q
was talc used in the production of
15 this gasket at all?
16
A
To the best of my knowledge, no.
17
Q
Asbestopac, did that product contain
18 asbestos?
19 20
A
Yes.
Q
when was that product first produced?
21 22
A
I don't know..
Q
When was that product last produced?
23
A
i don't know. other than --
24
Q
'88?
25
A
Yes, sir. *
0097
1 2
Q A
what was it used for? Asbestopac was used as stand alone --
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0098 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0099 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
it was a soft gasket material, compressed sheet material; was used for cutting gaskets out of -- by itself, and it was also used as a facing material for steel cord
gaskets.
q
A Q
` what type of steel cord gaskets? Head gaskets, manifold gaskets. Same with Asbestocore, what was that
used for?
' '
A
Asbestocore was also used for some of
the head gasket and exhaust gasket applications.
q
Asbestoprene is the next one, did
that contain asbestos?
A
Yes, sir.
q
when did victor or Dana first start
using Asbestoprene?
' A
I don't know.
'
Q
was Dune of '88 the last time it
would have been used?
A
would have been manufactured, yes,
si r . Q
for? A
okay. What was Asbestoprene used Asbestoprene was used for some of the
connector gaskets. It had more of a rubbery content to
it than the Asbestopac or Asbestocore.
Q
was Asbestoprene ever used in oil pan
gaskets? A ' Q
Not to my knowledge.
.
was it ever used in valve cover
gaskets? A Q
No, sir. , Next we have coramic, did that ever
contain asbestos? A
q
n o , sir. Next we have .cqrbestos, did that ever
contain asbestos?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
When did victor or Dana start using
Corbestos?
A
l don't know.
Q
Last time it was manufactured was
Dune of '88?
- A
or before.
Q
what was corbestos used for?
A
corbestos was predominantly used for
exhaust system gaskets.
Q
corpac, did that contain asbestos?
MR. d o r a n ; objection.
a
can't recall for Q A
material as I am recall.
Q asbestos?
A Q
A not.
Q A
I don't believe that one did, but I sure.
What was it used for? I am not as familiar with that with some of the other ones, so I don't
okay. Nitroseal, did that contain
n o , sir. Soli cor, did that contain asbestos? MR. d o r a n : 'objection to form. Sometimes it did; sometimes it did What do you .mean by that? The original versions of soli cor
s s s u 'S iX t S S f s S & l s a - i s n u 16
contained asbestos, arid it was one of the brand names that was transitioned to a non asbestps product,
17 that was xuu
when ^ ittransitioned to a
18 19
non asbestos product?It would have been in the 1970s.
20
A
can you be njore specific?
21 22
Q A
No. I don't know, si r.
23
Q
What was it used for? it also had metal in it. it was used
24 25
for --
A guess
am not exactly sure.
0100 1
Q
so I will just put used question
2 mark.
Thincor, did that have asbestos in
3
4 it?
m r . d o r a n : objection, form.
5 6
A
n o , sir.
, .,
I take for granted that Dana s
7
Q
8 Tuff-cork did
- have asbestos in it? No, it did not. That would be
9
A
10 correct.
Next on the list we have victocor,
11
Q
12 did victocor
duced by victor/Dana ever contain
13 asbestos?
14
A
it was a product that transitioned, or. When it was first produced, it was
15 16
similar to so asbestos-cont
inq, and then it was transitioned to a
17
non asbestos
taining product. ' when did that happen?
'
18 19
's A
in the '70s.
can you be more specific.
20
Q
21
A
And what was victocor used for?
22 23
Q A
Victor also had a steel core and was
24 used more in
25 ., some of the !
0101
When was the last time victocor was
1
2 produced?
The non asbestos version is still
3
4
beinq produced today.
y
Q
How about victopac?
.
5
. 2*4
m r . DORAN: objection to the form of
6
7 the question.
q
DUring the time period
8 that Dana/Victor produced victopac, did it contain
9
10 asbestos?
it is another transition branded
11
12
13
14
15 16
PrdUCt '" r 1S7 & i i
17 and was used for a lot of the transmission type gaskets,
18 connector gaskets. ^ ^ ^ a& yQu ^
that is still
19
20
2 ry r k ^ S i - p a ^ s ^ i being
21 22
produced today, but i ^ i ^ n o n ^ s t o s , correct.
23
o
h o w about victoprene, did victoprene
24 that was produced by Dana/victor ever contain asbestos.
25
0102 1
A A
ccaann wwee ggoo back to the victopac real
2 ' qui ck?
l 3
s o m f o f t h e V i c t o p a c materials never
4
5 contained asbestos.
have a specific. model
did 6 ,,,,her or W h i n e , ? W o S l d toll us which did or
7
8 not contain asbestos?
9
n
okav. Which models did?
10
a
The differentiation I want to_make is
11 12
with the Victopac, dt-thoaa-tt- was aa opaapoeert-boaased material,
13
A
which was a purchased item, purchased
14
15 material.
16
A
And those numbers were victopac 229,
17
18 239, 249, 259, 269. ^ ^
^
the
19
20 a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g ? ^ asbestQS
s,
21
q
okay. And which were the
22
23 as be st os -c on ta ini ng ?
a5bestos-containing victopac
24 that was a h o m p r e s s e S l h S t material would have been
25
0103
1 V i c t o p a c 1, 14, V l c ^ ^ CW e?4 c o m p r e s s e ^ s h e e ^ m a t e r i a l
2 ^ r f J f e t o i a c T Vi ct o p a c 17, vi ct o p a c 19, vi ct op ac 69,
3
4 vi ct o p a c 79, v l c t P a k^ 9 - we a re talking about
5 6
victoprene, did that ever contain asbestos?
7
A
n o , no.
. .,,
How about victolex?
8 '
Q
9 10
A
produced
bQQy
how
oana/victor
about the gasketilfrhat^ver called Victor, did that ever
.
11
12 contain asbestos?
really w a s n 't a material that
13
iSft 14
,,as calledVictor.
w
a
s
E
t
15 i S J l ? d S S l S 't " aSSfaciu e" " 5tdit ,,as hit ever
16 17
-afliWerial.
^
18
19
20
E g fa to ^ to H ? L S K ' S InMX 21
L U CI Z (
mw
22
23 gaskets themselves? ^
some of thfi adverti sing for the
24 af te rm ar ke t would - like the graphite gaskets would
25
0104
1 ^^^aVtoS^^hat^a^if^hS
2 3
as a general rule, no. ^
^ the victor gaskets - - I
4
5 6
raiasrgltef
7 gasket - let me just
anexaust manifold
8 gasket that is going to say Victor on it. It is not
9 10
going
to
say
corbestos
on
it.
11
q
And they would not have said asbestos
12
13 on them, wo ul d they?
he later years. I remember
14 seeing some packaging back from the 1930s that di^ ave
15
16 the word "asbestos" on it. 17
18 19
time period you w o r k e d ^ h e ? ^ diri"vnn8 t0 88 durin9 the
gaskets made or sold by the anl
eVer,S66uany Victor
20 ' word "asbestos" on them. " company that had the
21 22
A
No.'
.
23 24
or sold between '68 and ^88 L t h?nnaSke?h TManufactl*red
25 v c t o r produced have the r ? ^ s E r
0105
A
Not that i recall.
1
2 of the question. MR' D0RAN- Let me object to the form
3
4
MR, MISMAS: YOU got it. .
5 6
hich?nes contained a ^ e s t o S l n ^ S ^ d i 3 ^ , ' d "
7 8
A
Yes, sir.
9
10
11 12
A
I read every page.
13 14
P ?in which ones coi?ai^dtafbls?osrea,,S3n,, S ? h!' TM ef ^
15
16
17 a reason o^ this ,u
18 verification paae of rh??0C? L ' where Vou S19ned the
19 20
not trying L Pf?gufwiih vou f ^ S -t0riest:- and 1
there a reason why you listed both
askir,9 you -- is
21 22
asbestos-containingygasket
material?
6
S and n0n
23 24
transitioned era ancMi^i<ly-in??aUSe Some tbeni were
in there.
'
^ 15 Just easi6r t0 throw them all
25
0106
Q
what about thG ones that were not
1 asbestos, why put them in there?
2
3 packaging.A
Because they were our material
4
5 6
"asbestos-containing^iodurts!1" doesJ:{ ii?SayS
7 are making, sir. 1 understand the differentiation you
8
9
Q
okay, i am just asking.
10
2
No. i understand.
11 12
^
ld
13
14
A
yfs We 90 to Pa9e 41 of these?
15
16 17
interrogatories "please s i a t f t f 1'0" Staes of the first advised of either thptrhrof(J?ari Def?ndant was
18 19
maximum allowable concentration?5^?1^ It!TM1tuVa1ues or total dust by the American ? o ? ? L f bot asbestos and
20
21
22
S
TM
-
23
24
25 0107
iPl evented
dust
control
saf"?
ITslrtt
" TiTprasence
1
2
? TM i " l?ngeTM s l fli r ^ T 5 da ^ e? ^ hisloifcal^recoSs -
3 4 5 6
7
8 ' 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
0108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 0109
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ` 14 15
that victor Manufacturing & Gasket company kept abreast of industrial hygiene literature dealing with the TLVs."
Did I read that correctly?
A
Yes, si r , .
q
can you tell me what dust control
safety measures Dana/victor implemented?
MR. DORAN; Objection.
'
A
The dust control safety measures were
taken in the Robinson, Illinois, plant where they actually manufactured the gaskets, some of the gasket materials that contained asbestos fibers, and the people who were in the material manufacturing area.were required
to wear respiratory, you know, the masks.
Q
okay. And what year were they
required to -- what was the first year that the
victor/Dana employees were required to wear masks?
MR. DORAN: objection to form.
A
I believe it was in the early '68.
That was the transition merger, whatever the legal term
was, transpired in '67.
q
so Dana knew in 1968 that asbestos
fibers released in the air could cause disease? MR. DORAN: objection.
a . They knew that a certain amount would
cause -- would'be harmful.
Q
So Dana knew in 1968 that breathing
asbestos fibers could cause disease, correct?
MR. d o r a n : -objection.
A
That certainly a certain level of
asbestos fibers in the breathable air would be harmful.
Q
I am not asking about levels; I am
asking you that Dana/victor knew ;in 1968 that inhalation
of asbestos fibers could cause disease?
MR. d o r a n :
objection..
A
Yes.
q
And if I am correct from reading your
prior testimony, in 1971, clarence Hawkins filed the first Workers' Compensation claim for an asbestos-related
disease against Dana?
"A
I think it was Hankins,'
H-a-n-k-i-n-s.
Q
Let me ask the question again so the
record is clear.
'
.
Ms. Duncan, and by reading your prior
testimony, I am aware that the first Workers'
compensation claim for. an asbestos-related injury or
disease filed against Dana was in 1971 by clarence
Hankins?
A
Yes, sir.
Q
Do you know what happened to clarence
Hankins?
MR. d o r a n : objection.
.
A
I .believe he died.
Q
d o you know what he died from?
A
No, sir. ,
Q
And even after 1971 when Mr. Hankins
filed his asbestos-related workers' compensation claim,
Dana/victor still did not put warnings on their gasket
material, did they?
.
MR. d o r a n : objection. Form of the
question.
A
The gasket material and the gaskets
that were manufactured were not harmful because of the
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0110
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ' 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 OUI 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0112 1 2
method of manufacturing containing the asbestos fibers
within that material. So there were no warnings
necessarily required to put on the product.
q
When you say they were not harmful,
what's the basis for that statement?
A
The asbestos fibers were encapsulated
in rubber binders. They were not loose in the product at
all. They were encapsulated.
Q
okay. But the majority of Dana's
asbestos-containing gaskets were 80 percent asbestos,
correct?
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
the question.
A
No, sir.
Q
How much asbestos were in them
then?
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of
the question.
A The combination of the materials
themselves were combined with metals and other, so it '
would depend on the exact gasket as to how much of the
asbestos content was in the gasket.
Q
okay. Do you know who Joe zeitz is,
John zeitz is?
A
John zeitz, yes, sir.
Q
so you called him John Zeitz? Okay,
so you know who John zeitz is?
A
Yes.
Q
And who was he?
A
still is alive to the best of my
knowledge. I hadn't than heard that he passed.
Q
uh-huh.
A
He was aformer Dana/victor employee,
head of engineering at one time at victor Gasket
Engineering.
MR. MISMAS: This is NO. 4(Plaintiffs' Doran Deposition
Exhibit 4 was marked
for identification.)
q
can you take a look at that for a
minute? You have seen this before?
A
Yes.
Q
so you know where weare going.
A
(witness reading.)
It is always interesting for me to
see the government regulatory agencies keenly interested
in seeing asbestos --
MR. d o r a n : wait for a question to be
asked, Marcy.
Q
what I have.handed youis "what will
Replace Asbestos Gaskets by John E. zeitz" reprinted from
July 1980 Diesel & Gas Turbine Progress, is that
correct?
A
Yes.
' .
Q
And on the bottom, there is a Bates
stamp number that says VPD-142-0002632?
.
A
633. Oh, on the front 632. I 'm
sorry. I was looking at the other page.
Q
And this document is in the Dana
document or repository, correct?
A
correct.
'
Q
And then first highlighted passage on
^ " ]Lr: r a ^ " ^ b S 1 S i ^ " 3ii,? thl cnd S;E,'aofp?;bEEiErgE^E EaTilJU':es are fo,los;ed- 3
4 Sine
Chief
5 Dana Corporation," correct?
lon o f
6 7
A
YS
'
8
9
10
11 to using the product15 O n e ^ r o d u r t ^ r S?fk a1tfCnatives
12
13 .
14
15
16
17
18 a l s k S f n g 0" f a" eng' ne l,a r t clean Ep re s1dSEaPe "
19
20 21
you cannot see th a t i l E d E n E ' S ^ i n j E j h e ' l E n E f " sE"
22
23
24 r t l f E ^ V "8 POCsEn" J l 9?E kS E E X d u 1r i s " f a l 1- f ? i r tl'a1
25 re b E ild I p e E l t l E i " " l y tru e i S ^ e - i L T ^ l n e
0113
1
2 M s . Duncan:
S let me ask y o u a question,
3
4
5
6
7 8
MR. d o r a n : Objection.
9 yes.
That's what he indicates on paper,
10
11
12 c o rre c t ? 1CP r
^
13 14
^
Yes, at that time.
15
16 E E iE p r E s S E E iE E ^ f E " 1' " ' " ' ^ "^ " 92^ " E TM s K at S " <"
17 la s k S . l o r r " i ?
p a rt or c l '-aTM P the residue
18 19
.
MR. d o r a n : Objection, form.
20
.
Yes. He knew thev were
21 S PtrL P^aa^ lt ys n0t f1l0Win9 the ` ' ' io n s Packaged
22
23 here? ' Q
Can you te^ me wllere that's in
24 25
A
No, sir.
0114
Q
it is not in here, is it?
1 2
A
No, sir.
3 would haveQsaid it? 0kay` l f it: was' don't you think he
4
5 speculation.
MR- d o r a n : Objection to form.
6 7
A
I don't know.
8
^
iWant t0 as^ you this:
9 gaskets?
When dld Dana putwaruings on its
10
11 12
packaging in the e a r i r ^ i d ^ o i " 05^
'<et
13
14
15
Q
What year was that put in?
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0115
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0116 1 2 3 . 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0117 1 2
A
That goes back to the victor
Manufacturing gasket days, which would have been before
the Dana-victor.
.
Q
d o you have a copy of that anywhere?
A
i have a copy of -- not I, but there
are copies of those in instructions and catalogs also
containing the instructions that the aftermarket
distributors had, that would give you removal and
installation of gaskets.
Q
you are talking about the catalogs
that the distributors would get, correct?
MR. d o r a n : objection to form.
A
That the customers would get. Like
where you would go to buy your gasket, you would look in
a catalog or the salesperson would help you look in a
catalog to determine which gasket you would need for the
application, and in the same catalog, there were the
instructions for removal and installation of the gaskets.
. Q
what I am asking you is, on the
packaging of the gaskets that contained asbestos or the
gasket itself, would it say anything whatsoever about not
to scrape the gasket with a wire brush?
MR. DORN: objection to form.
A
There were instructions as far as the
safe removal of the gaskets and the warning about
scraping, creating dust, that if you were going to do that, to wear masks if you were creating dust of any kind.
Q
Was that on the packaging?
_
A
it was -- the warning was on the
outside of the 'packaging when they started putting the-
warning on the outside of the packaging.
Q
in what year?
A
That was I think '84 '85.
Q
so we are kind of getting crossed up
here. You said that originally you said back into the
'60s it would have been in the rrtanual that the person
" '`
, if you went to Joe's sohio or mom and
pop shop to
correct?
A
as well as the installation guide in
the package.
Q
There would be -- okay.
Are you telling me in the '60s and
'70s in the
gasket came
the gaskets
A
There would be instructions on the
proper remov
kits dependi
Q
okay.
A
-- such as a head gasket.
Q
Would it say not to remove it with a
wire brush?
A
some of them did, I believe. I can't
remember.
Q
You can't remember, or they did?
A I would have to go back and look at
some of the instructions.
Q
And you haven't looked at those
lately, and A
From what I recall, it specifically
3 said on some of them not to use wire brushes.
4
Q
What year?
5
A
I don't remember,
6
Q
could have been the '80s?
7
A
I don't remember.
'
8
Q
so you don't remember if it was in
9 the '60s?
10
i have looked at gasket catalogs back
11 into the 1940s, so I don't remember, sir.
12
q
i am not talking about catalogs; I am
13 talking about specific gaskets sold in packaging, did it
14 ever say anything in those -- on the packaging itself,
15 inside the packaging were the gasket not to scrape a
16 gasket with a wire brush?
17
It warned against creating dust in a
18 matter of removal yes.
19
Q
in the gasket, on the packaging or -
20
A
in the instructions inside the gasket
21 kit.
22
Q
Then my next question is: why did it
23 say not to remove it with a wire brush?
24
MR. d o r a n : `objection.
25
A
To create dust -- don't create dust.
0118
1
Q
What was the purpose behind them
2 asking people not to create dust while removing a Dana
3 ` gasket?
4
MR. DORAN: objection to form.
5
A
Because of the -- on a head block,
6 depending how old the engine is, if it is original
7 equipment or it can attach itself to the block from heat
8 and uses and stuff like that, and because it does contain
9 fibers.
10
Q
Asbestos fibers?
11
A
In some of the head gaskets,
12 you don't want to create dust that you are going to
13 breathe.
14
q
okay, so in the 1960s, Dana/victor
15 knew that scraping an asbestos-containing gasket would
16 release asbestos fibers into the air?
17
MR. d o r a n : objection to form.
18
A
I don't know wnat Dana knew other
19 than the fact that for health and safety reasons warnings
20 were harmful, the inhalation of excessive dust caused
21 from asbestos was harmful.
_
22
q
i am just asking you -- and I think
23 we are getting a little mixed up in our questions and our
24 answers -- what I am asking you, in the 1960s, Dana knew,
25 Dana/Victor knew that scraping an asbestos-containing
0119
1 gasket with a wire brush would release asbestos fibers
2 into the air, correct?
3
MR. DORAN: ^objection to the form.
4
A
t o the best`of my knowledge, yes.
5
q
And they knew that in the 1970s?
6
A
Yes.
7
q
And they knew that in the 1980s?
8
A
Yes.
9
Q
But they did not put an asbestos
10 warning on any of its gaskets until the mid '80s,
11 correct?
12
'
MR. DORAN: objectionto form.
13
A
To the best of my knowledge, it was
14 around '84-85.
15
q
And just along that -- on' that last
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0120
1 2 3 4 ' 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
0122
1 2
line of questioning -- and you would agree with me -- that Dana/victor knew that mechanics were using wire
brushes in the '70s to scrape -- oh, never mind. I will ask you, you would agree in
the 1970s Dana knew that a mechanic who was installing a
victor gasket that contained asbestos would first have to
remove a gasket that contained asbestos, correct?
MR. DORAN: objection to form.
A
They would first have to remove a
gasket to replace it. it may not necessarily have been
an asbestos-containing gasket because they were not all
asbestos-containing.
*.
q
And the same thing for the '70s.
A
correct.
Q
what year did Dana/victor -- what
year did Dana/victor start testing its products for the
release of asbestos?
A
Dana/victor did not perform any tests
themselves.
- Q
on fiber release from their own
gaskets, correct?
A
That's correct.
Q,
Don't you think a reasonable prudent
company that in the 1960s knew that asbestos was
hazardous to human health in certain quantities would
have done testing on the removal and handling of their -
would a reasonable prudent company in the 1960s, don't
you think hold -- i'll start over again. Don't you think a reasonably prudent
company in the 1960s would actually have gone into the field and done testing on the handling and removal of their gasket materials to discover whether or not harmful levels of dust .were released from, the handling of their gasket materials that contained asbestos?
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
the question. A
` They participated in tests, and they
also utilized tests that were performed by other entities
for that purpose.
,
.
q
Did they do that in the 1960s?
A
Yes.
q
okay. And did they do that in the
1970s? A Q
Yes. But Dana did not -- Dana/victor did
not do any of their own testing, did they?
A
They did not do any of their own
testing. They participated in tests but were not their
own tests.
q
okay. What tests did they
participate in?
'
. A
I have to go back to the documents to
look at specific information.
MR. m i s m a s : Let's take five or ten
minutes.
(Recess had.) MR. MISMAS: Are we back on the
record? MR. DORAN:
answer she wants to clear up.
Marcy has a question and
A
we were talking about the
installation and removal, and one of the things that was
3 so evident as far as the responsibilities, as far.as the
4 proper'installation, when I first started in 1968, they
5 were still holding mechanics' classes and things iike
6 that for proper removal and removal of a gasket and
7 installation of a gasket.
-
8
victor Manufacturing had been having
9 mechanics' classes for years and years and years for the
10 proper removal, and they recommended different solvents
11 to make sure like your head, your block was clean because
12 you want to make sure the gasket, the new gasket fit
13 properly.
14
Q
okay.
15
MR. m i s m a s : i am going to object to
16 the unresponsiveness of the answer because it was not any
17 question I asked. Okay.
18
q
(continuing) Do youhave your
19 interrogatories in front of you?
20
A
Yes, sir.
21
MR. MISMAS:* And move tostrike that
22 by the way.
23
q
And we are looking at question 18.
24 It says "prior to releasing" --.and tell me if I am
25 reading this right -- "prior to releasing the products
0123
1 listed in interrogatory n o .. 5 for sale and usage, were
2 any tests, (either animal or human) conducted on said
3 products to determine potential health hazards involved
4 in the use of or exposure to materials and/or products,
5 if so, please state:
6
.
"The name of the products tested and
7 the date of each test.
8
"The name, address, and job
9 classification of each individual who conducted such
10 tests.
11
"The results of such tests."
12
Now, do you see that sentence that
13 starts "as a result" -
14
A
Yes.
15
q
About half way down, it says "as a
16 result, Defendant," here Dana/victor, "had no reason to
17 believe that use of its products could cause disease.
18 Those tests/studies included:
19
"(1) A test conducted in May of 1988
20 that consisted'of opening packages of engine gasket
21 rebuilding kits and measuring the air level of dust;
22
"(2) The Naval Research Medical
23 Center study of 1978;
<
24
"(3) Johns-Manville's early 1980s
25 promotional literature;
0124
1
"(4) GCA report in 1982;
2 .
"(5) o s h a regulations in 1986 that
3 did not require warnings for gaskets and which set forth
4 acceptable levels of exposure to asbestos;
5
"(6) Engine gasket studies performed
6 in 1994;
7
"(7) Engine gasket study in May
8 2003;
9
"(8) Engine gasket study of January
10 2004;
11
"(9) A 2004 study of gasket removal
12 from diesel engines;
13
(10) 2004 study of removal of
14 automobile exhaust systems;
15
"11) A 2005 article regarding
16 automobile exhaust systems;
17 18
. .
, .
A 2006 article regarding
servicing and handling of automobile gaskets;
19
, ,.
C13) A 2006 article regarding
20 removal and installation of gaskets and packing;
21
.
.
(14) A 2007 article regarding heavy
22 equipment maintenance exposure assessment; and
23
.
(15)A '2007 article regarding
24 exposure to airborne asbestos during removal and
25 installation of gaskets and packing."
0125
1
Did I read those correctly?
2
A
Yes, sir.
3 4
Q.
Earlier you testified just before the
break that in the 1960s Dana/victor participated in
5 studies in the -exposure to asbestos from gaskets, in the
6 7
thueSt1^96L0si.ntewrarsostahtatonaen5'intchoerrerecits annotshwienrg7 in here from
8
A
no.
(
9.
Q .
okay, so wiiere is it in the
10 interrogatories that they participated in studies in the
11 1960s about asbestos exposure from gaskets?
12 ,
A
it is not in .this -- it is not in
13 here.
14 '
Q
Okay.
15
. A
There were earlier tests that I have
16 seen m the repository that were during that period of
17 time. They are not listed here.
18
, . Q.
okay. But you earlier testified that
19 you had read every page of this, and you signed off on
20 it. why is it not in here?
21
MR. DORAN: objection.
22 23
al,l, of th,emA.
This was just a sampling, it was not
24 .
Q
Well, let me ask you a question: The
25 interrogatory questions, prior to releasing the products
0126
1 listed in Interrogatory No. 5 for sale and usage, were
2 any tests, either animal or human, conducted on said
3 products to determine potential health hazard involved in
4 the use of or exposure to the materials or products.
5
if so, please state the name of the
6 products tested and the date of each test, the name
7 address, and job classification of each individual who
8 conducted such tests and the results of such tests if
9 there are tests from the 1960s, why were they not
10 included in this answer to the interrogatories?
11
MR. d o r a n : 'Objection. Form.
12
A,
The question, as I interpreted it,
13 was tests that Dana/victor or victor themselves
14 conducted, since we didn't conduct any tests but relied
15 on the tests of others, some o f 'them are listed here but
16 not all of them.
17
5
okay. And why are not all of them
18 1isted?
19
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of
20 the question.
21
A
I don't have an answer to that.
22
j-j. . , Q-
1 mean, you are the one who signed
23 off on them, you are the one that looked at them, whv
24 didn t you put that in here?
25
MR. d o r a n : Objection to the form of
0127
1 the question.
2
A
I can''t answer that, i don't know,
3 si r . 4
q And you said these were the -- these
5 are the ones they had participated in?
6
A
No. These are tests that were
7 used concerning our -- basically included gaskets
8 themselves.
9
q
*,
,,. _ .
Okay. How about No. 2 here? The
10 Naval Research Medical center study of 1978, what were
11 they testing in that?
.
12
A
That was concerning gaskets.
13
q
what kind of gaskets?
14
A
I don't know, sir.
15
q
were they engine gaskets?
16
MR. DORAN: Objection to form.
17
A
I would have to go back and read the
18 19
test results. . q
,, ,
,
Three. It says lohns-Manvilie s
20 early i980s promotional literature," what were they
21 testing in there?
_ ,
22
MR. d o r a n : objection. .
23
A
it was promotional literature
24 concerning the use of asbestos in gaskets because
25 Johns Manville was one of the suppliers to Dana/Victor of
0128 1
the
raw
asbestos
fibers
that
we
used
in
the
production
of
2 3
our gasket materials.
q
So lohns-Manville was one of the
4 suppliers of the -- of raw asbestos to Dana?
5 6
A
Yes, sir.
.
q
Are you aware that lohns-Manville put
7 warning labels 'on their bags of raw asbestos in 1964?
8
MR. d o r a n : objection.
9
A
I remember that there were some
10 warning labels that they put on*their big bundles, but I
11 12
don't recall what they said.
.
q
so if lohns-Manville put warning _
13 labels that said "caution: Asbestos may cause cancer" on
14 their bags of raw asbestos shipped to bana/victor in
15 1964, Victor would have known -- that Dana/victor would
16 have known that asbestos could cause cancer by those
17 labels? 18
MR. d o r a n : ob,j.ection. Form.
19
A
I never saw the labels.
20
q
i am not asking you personally. I am
21 asking you as the corporate representative of
22 Dana corporation, if lohns-Manville put asbestos warning
23 labels on their bags of raw asbestos that Dana used in
24 1964 that said "cancer," Dana/victor would have been
25 aware that asbestos could cause cancer, wouldn t it?
0129 1
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of
2 3
the question. A
.
,
if they did, the answer would be
4 yes.
5
q
. And if lohns-Manville put warning
6 labels on its bags of raw asbestos in 1968 that said
7 "asbestos could cause cancer," Dana/victor would have
8 9
known that in 1968, wouldn't they?
_
c
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
10 the question.
.
11
A
Yes, sir.
12
q
who else were the suppliers of raw
13 14
asbestos fiber to Dana?
,
A
The only other one that I know is
15 take Asbestos in Quebec.
16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0130
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0131 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0132 1 2
Q supply asbestos?
How about union carbide, did they
A
They did not supply raw asbestos.
What I remember Union Carbide supplying was graphite.
Q supplying a product the question.
A Q
okay. Qo you remember union carbide by the name of colidria? MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of I never heard that word before. Do you remember a company by the name
of c. p. Hall supplying asbestos to nohns-Manvi1le -- I 'm
sorry, strike .that.
.
d o you remember a company by the name
of c. P. Hall supplying asbestos to
Dana corporation/victor?
A
Not that I recall. There were
several, and they are listed in here I believe of the
companies that we bought raw asbestos from as well as
asbestos-containing materials. ,
.
Q
okay, n o w , 'these 1960 and 1970
studies that you say Dana relied upon -- strike that.
These 1960s and 1970s studies that
you say Dana relied upon or participated in that showed
that there was no risk of harm from their gaskets, those
are in the repository?
A
Yes.
MR. Mi smA S : And I think that's probably something that was in our request for production of documents that was. not produced, so if you could produce those documents to me, I would appreciate it.
MR. d o r a n : Make a formal'request. We made the repository available to you, including -
MR. m i s m a s : I don't think it is my job to go look through a repository of what I request. It is your job to produce the documents.
you on that now. MR. DORAN: I 'm not sure I agree with
later. 1ater.
MR. m i s m a s : we can argue about that MR. d o r a n : we can argue about it ,
MR. m i s m a s : sounds good. Let's move
on and try to get everybody out,of here.
BY MR. MISMAS:
Q
Now, do you get paid to sign the
affidavit, the verification page to each of these answers
to interrogatories?
.
A
I get paid to read the document and
sign it.
Q
okay. How long does it take you to
usually read these?
A
Well, it depends on how long it is.
Q
well, this guy is 60 pages,
A
okay, so probably an hour,
hour-and-a-half.
Q
At a hundred bucks an hour?
A
Yeah.
Q
so $100 to $150 --
A
somewhere around there.
Q
How many answers to interrogatories
in cases for Dana do you read and verify per year?
A
A hundred, somewhere around a hundred
3 4
5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ' 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0134 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
maybe.
Q
okay. Do you have your own
corporation set up to receive these funds from Dana, or
do you gest get a check?
MR. DORAN: objection.
A
l get a check.
Q okay.
,
A
l .issue an invoice, and I get a
check, and then they send me a 1099 at the end of the
year.
,
Q
How much last year was your 1099?
What did you make from Dana corporation last year?
MR. d o r a n : objection.
A
$30,000. .
Q
And that's testifying andverifying
interrogatory answers, correct?
A
And all travel expenses for any
traveling that I do. It is all expenses incurred.
Q
it is the 30K plus travel expenses or
30k total?
A
No, total. That included everything
that i-paid out of pocket for air fare, and.they
reimbursed me for all of that stuff, and that's part of
all of that.
.
Q
okay. Let's talk about -- you
brought the affidavits with .you today, right, for the
Brown case and sylvasy case?
A
Yes, sir.
.
Q
Do you have a Michael Brown one?
A
I have the Sylvasy one, but I can't
find it --
Here is Brown.
A
I have the Brown one here. I
couldn't find the sylvasy. I 'm sorry.
Q
Don't worry about that one. I
probably won't ask you about that anyway.
MR. m i s m a s : Mark that as Exhibit
(Plaintiffs' Doran Deposit!
Exhibit 5 was marked for identification.)
BY MR. MISMAS: Q A
Q thi rd page, an;d
A Q A
Do you need time to look it over? Oh, I know it. okay. okay, can you turn to the that's your signature there, right? Yes, sir. And this was notarized? At a bank.
' Q
At a bank. okay.
'
And do you get paid to do these
affidavits for Dana?
A
Yes, sir.
'
Q
And same thing, a hundred bucks an
hour?
A
Yes.
Q
And how long did it take you to
prepare this affidavit?
A
it was prepared for me.
Q
okay.
A
And I review it and confer on
content.
Q
okay.
A
And accuracy. usually, it is
16 only about 15 minutes, I mean, that's usually all it
17 takes.
18
Q
okay. And who prepared this
19 affidavit for you?
20
A
would have Been cooper and walinski.
21
Q
And that's a law firm?
22
A
Yes, sir.
23
Q
okay. And who is your contact over
24 there that yo got this affidavit that they prepared for
25 ' you?
0135
1
MR. d o r a n : objection,
2
probably Tracy selas, T-r-a-c-y,
3 S-e-l-a-s. she is a an attorney with cooper and
4 walinski.
5
q
And were there multiple.drafts of
6 this, or is this what you got and took it and signed
7 it?
8
A
No. There were some changes that I
9 made.
10
q
And what changes did you make?
11
A
Basically in the verbiage on 6 and 7,
12 the predominantly 1, 2, 3 are pretty standard because
13 they explain my experience.
. .
14
q
I have seen a few of your affidavits,
15 so I kind of always turn to the second page. And what
16 was the change that you made in the verbiage of 6 and 7?
17
A
Basically, it is the gaskets that
18 never contained asbestos or the gaskets -- and the
19 gaskets that sometimes did and sometimes didn't.
20
q
okay. And what was the verbiage that
21 you changed in 6?
22
A
Making surethat those types of
23 gaskets were included in the cork rubber specification.
24
Q
okay.
25
A
And that the -- and in No. 7, you
0136
1 . didn't ask me. I'm sorry.
2
Q
No. Go ahead, in No. 7, what was
3 the verbiage that was changed?
4
A
in No. 7 those types of gaskets up
5 until 1988, some of them contained asbestos, and some of
6 them did not.
, ,,
7
q
okay. And we went through what all
8 those are already?
9
A
Yes, sir.
10
Q
Did you review any materials when you
11 were making the changes to these affidavits?
12
A
No, si r.
13
MR. MISMAS: NO. 6.
14
(Plaintiffs' Doran Deposition
15
Exhibit 6 was marked
16
for identification.)
17
And just for the record, this is
18 Plainti ff's Exhibit 6. There is a Bates stamp number, I
19 think it is VPD 188-0002118.
20
Have you seen this document before?
21
A Not to my knowledge.
22
Q
okay. And this document is from the
23 document repository, the Bates stamp from there?
24
A
uh-huh.
, .
25
Q
I am going io read to you, this is a
0137
1 Dana corporation intracompany communication dated April
2 25th, 1973, to l E . Lane.
3
'
d o you know who 3. E. Lane is?
4
A
3ohn -- or lack Lane, yes.
5
q
who was he?
6
A
He worked for the Chicago- plant, and
7 during the time that I knew him, I thought he was -
8 worked with the h r group, but I can't recall.
9
q
okay. And this is from
10 3. F. Feldman, and who is that?
11
A
3ohn Feldman is the - - h e was the
12 light duty sales manager.
13
q
okay. Did we talk about him before?
14
A
Yes, we did .
15
q
okay. Now, this memorandum states
16 "as you know, we sell Hydramatic Asbestoprene oil pan .
17 gaskets for service use. About half of what we ship
18 Hydramatic is reshipped in our" something" to AC spark
19 Plug for their service packaging. The remainder is
20 packaged by Hydramatic and sent to OMPD.
21
"A General Motors safety inspector
22 has toured Hydramatic and reported unacceptable levels of
23 asbestos dust in their packaging location. He has
24 directed Hydramatic to vacuum the residue out of our
25 ' cartons before the cartons are disposed of. The residue
0138
1 must be plastic bagged, labeled, and disposed of in
2 1andfi11.
3
"In addition, he requested that our
4 cartons be labeled with a cautionary statement per the
5 attached page from the Federal Register. .
6
"I am to write Mr. H. 3. Thomas,
7 Safety Director at Hydramatic, indicating we will comply
8 with this request. This situation could be a.
9 potential" -- do you know what that says?
10
A
l can't.see the one word, "books,"
11 looks like the other one.
.
12
q
Ye`ah. "of" something "books both in
13 our plant and at Hydramatic. I don't know how the union
14 will react to this carton label, will Messrs. Dehr,
15 Lillis, McGranahan, et al. review it, and let me know how
16 to respond to Hydramatic."
17
Now, I want you to look at No. 6 on
18 your affidavit.
.
19
A ' I don't need to. I was incorrect.- I
20 did not know that they were making Asbestoprene oil pan
21 gaskets for Hydramatic.
22
q
so your affidavit is wrong?
23
A
That portion of the affidavit is
24 incorrect, yes, sir.
25
q
And even though it says m here that
0139
1 they wanted cautionary labels in '73, Hydramatic did,
2 Dana didn't put warnings on until the '80s, did they?
3
MR. DORiAN: objection to the form of
4 the question.
5
q
Asbestos warnings.
6
A
The asbestos warnings that I am aware
7 of that were put on were in 1984-85 is when they began.
8
` q
And that's 12 years after this.
9
MR. DORAN: objection.
10
A
Yes.
11
q
And per the GeneralMotors safety
12 inspector, there were unacceptable levels of dust in the
13 packaging of where the Asbestoprene gaskets were, wasn't
14 there?
...
, .
x
15
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
16 tue 9uest10n- John, she has never seen the document, and
17 she has no personal knowledge as to what the General
18 Motors inspector found.
19 , ,
MR- m i s m a s : it is your document. I
20 don t care.
21
MR. d o r a n : And so that calls for
22 speculation.
23
. MR. MISMAS: .she is the corporate
24 rep. i am not asking her about personal knowledge. A'
25 corporate representative doesn't talk about corporate
0140
1 knowledge.
2
MR. DORAN: y o u are asking her what
3 the General Motors inspector found, and I 'm telling you
4 that's calling for speculation.,
.
5
MR. MISMAS: Good. You have your
6 version, and I have mine, i am going to move on.
7 BY MR. MISMAS:
.
8 ,,
Q
In the document, it says that
9 General Motors safety inspector has toured Hydramatic
10 and reported unacceptable levels of asbestos dust in the
11 packaging location," correct?
12
.
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of
13 the question.
'
14
A
That's what it says, sir.
15
Q
okay. And this would indicate that
16 the Asbestoprene oil seal gaskets, as they came, had
17 unacceptable levels of asbestos in the packaqinq,
18 correct?
19
MR-, d o r a n : objection to the form of
20 the question. Predicate, foundation, speculation.
21
A
That's what they say. May I make a
22 comment?
23
Q
No.
24
And we established earlier, that
25 Asbestoprene was asbestos until 1988, correct?
0141
1
MR. d o r a n : objection to the form of
2 the question.
3
A
Yes. Asbestoprene was a rubber and
4 asbestos-formed material.
5
Q
Until 1988.
6
A
Yes, sir. And it no longer existed.
7
Q
And you answered earlier that no oil
8 . pan gaskets -- in your sworn testimony earlier, you said
9 that no oil pan gaskets contained asbestos, correct?
10
A
And I was incorrect.
11
Q
okay.
12
MR. m i s m a s : Plaintiff's Exhibit 7.
13
(Plaintiffs' Doran Deposition
14
Exhibit 7 was marked
15
for identification.) '
16
(Pause.)
17
A
l am ready.
18
Q
Have you seen this documentbefore?
19
A
Absolutely not.
20
Q
okay. And does that looklike an
21 engine to you?
22
A
Yes, it does.
23
Q
And can you turn to the next page?
24
A
Yes.
25
Q
And this has a list of products that
0142
1 were manufactured by Victor/Dana, does it not?
2
A . This has a list of products that were
3 manufactured by Dana/victor and victor Manufacturing.
4
Q
okay.
5
A ' This is not a victor gasket document.
6
Q
Okay, i want to ask you something:
7 solicor 610, description asbestos-elastomer facing bound
8 to both sides ofsolid steel coe," correct? is that a
9 correct description of what it was?
10
A
That would be a correctdescription,
11 yes.
12
, Q
And it was used --its purpose says
13 . intake manifold gaskets." is that correct?
14
A
Yes.
15
Q
And says soli cor 620, red
16 asbestos-elastomerfacing glued to both sides of tin
17 plate steel," and it says "purpose: intake manifold
18 areas of valley cover ('turkey pan') gaskets."
19
would that Be a correct description.
20
- A
Yes.
.
21 . ,
Q ,
okay. And then it says "solicor 630,
22 hard gasket asbestos qlued to solid steel core; cylinder
23 head gaskets and manifold gaskets." would that be
24 correct?
25
MR. DORAN: objection to form.
0143
1
A
Pretty close.
2
Q
okay. Then it says"victosol, hard
3 asbestos gasket glued to solid steel core; heavy duty
4 diesel engines."
5
is that correct?
6
A
i wasn't familiar with victosol
7 material. I don't recall that one.
8
Q
How about victocor,
9 asbestos-elastomer facing mechanically clinched to both
10 sides of perforated steel core, either red or gray;
11 cylinder head gaskets having flanges and intake manifold
12 gaskets."
.
13
Does that sound correct?
14
A
That would be correct.
15
MR. DORAN: Objection to form.
16
Q. . And then it says "corbestos (steel
17 faced) combination of steel and asbestos; cylinder head
18 gaskets, exhaust manifolds, heat shields, turbochargers
19 of air cooled engines."
20
Does that seem correct to you?
21
MR. DORAN: objection to form.
22
. A
Yeah, pretty much.
23
Q
And then it says corbestos
24 (double-sided) untreated asbestos facing clinched to both
25 sides of perforated steel core; good for sealing gases,
0144
1 carburetor, exhaust manifold, and turbocharger gaskets."
2
Does that seem correct?
3
MR-, d o r a n : objection. Form.
4
,A
I don't know wnat the untreated
5 asbestos is supposed to signify, i have never seen those
6 terms used.
7
Q
okay. And then itsaysAsbestoprene,
8 Asbestopac, long chrysotile fiber and rubber; for use
9 where good engine coolant, oil, and aromatic fuel
10 resistance is required and temperatures up to 500-degrees
11 are anticipated such as oil pan and valve cover gaskets."
12
Does that seem correct to you?
13
A
No, sir. .
14
Q
why not?
15
A
Because valvecover gaskets were
16 rubber and cork, and the Asbestoprene and Asbestopac
17 would not have been recommended for that application.
18
q
And that's based on what fact?
19
A
And I have never seen anything
20 produced by Victor gasket or Victor/Dana that lists this
21 product with these types of descriptions before.
22
q
okay.
23
A
so I don't know who made this list
24 up.
25
q
But the Asbestoprene we already
0145
1 talked earlier those were used for --
2
" a
For the Hydramatic oil pan. Yes, I
3 read that. Yes, sir..
4
q
okay, d o you know how much money
5 Dana grossed last year?
'
6
. a
No, sir.
7
MR. d o r a n : objection.
8
q
d o you know how much money
9 Dana corporation or its insurers paid m a s corporation on
10 retainer to not testify against them in court?
11
A
l have no idea. I am not even sure
12 what you said.
13
q
m as corporation, do you know how much
14 Dana corporation, now Dana companies, LLC, pays mas
15 corporation to-not testify against them in court as .
16 expert witnesses?
.
17
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
18 the question.
,
19
A
I don't know who m a s corporation is
20 or anything about that.
21
q
so that's a no?
22
A
I'm sorry, no..
23
q
okay, do you know how much
24 ' Dana corporation, Dana companies, LLC or Victor has
25 paid Fred Bolter as an expert witness in asbestos '
0146
1 1itigation?
2
MR. DORAN: objection to the form of
3 the question.
4
- A
No, sir.
5
Q
Do you know who would have that
6 information? Do you know who would have that
7 information?
8
A
Dana compam es.
9
q
Do you know how much Dana companies,
10 LLC has paid Dr. Rogley to testify or consult with in
11 asbestos litigation? '
12
MR. d o r a n : objection to form.
13
A
No, sir.
14
q
Let me just do this real quick:
15
d o you know how much Dana company has
16 paid any expert to testify or consult on behalf of them
17 in an asbestos-related case? .
18
A
n o , si r. only me.
'
19
Q
Okay.
20
MR. m i s m a s : That's all I got.
21
MR. d o r a n : *do you have questions?
22
m s . spardone: no.
23
MS. BLACKWELL: NO.
24
THE COURT: .Anybody on the phone have
25 questions?
'
0147
1
A v o i c e : no questions.
2
MR. d o r a n : we are going to take --
3
m s . h i g g s : we will take two mi utes.
4
MR. MISMAS: Do you have questions?
5
MR. d o r a n : I don't know yet. we are
6 going to take a couple minutes.
7
MR. m i s m a s : okay.
8
(Recess had.)
9 BY MR. MISMAS:
10
q
m s . Duncan, I didn't ask you your
11 full name, what's your full name?
12
A
Marcella Lee Duncan.
13
q
And you are testifyinghere as
14 corporate witness for Dana companies, l l c , correct?
15
A
Yes, to-my knowledge.
16
q
And just for the record, we are going
17 to mark your file as Exhibit 8. okay? Thank you.
18
(Plaintiffs' Doran Deposition
19
Exhibit 8 was marked
20
for identification.)
21
DIRECT EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. DORAN:
23
q Ms. Duncan, my name is perry Doran,
24 and I have a few questions for you. I want to direct
25 your attention to your affidavit, which has been marked
0148
1 as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5. i want to direct your
2 attention to paragraph n o . 6, and we talked about that a
3 few minutes ago. And you indicated that that paragraph
4 may not be entirely correct
.
5
A
Yes.
'
6 '
q
-- based upon some document you were
7 shown today?
8
A
Yes, sir.
9
q
Let me ask you this:
10
Do you have personal knowledge as to
11 whether or not the victor products Division of former
12 Dana corporation manufactured, produced, and sold non
13 asbestos-containing oil pan gaskets between -- since 1968
14 and 2006?
,,
15
MR. m i s m a s : objection. Leading.
16
A
Yes, they did.
17
q
All right. Based upon that _
18 objection, m s . Duncan, can you tell me whether oil pan -
19 let me ask you this: '
20
You indicated that paragraph 6 is
21 not entirely correct, why don't you correct it for us
22 today.
23
A
I would take after seeing that
24 document today, I would take oil pan gaskets and put it
25 in No. 7.
.
0149
1
MR. MISMAS: objection,
2
MR. DORAN: what's the basis of the
3 objection?
4
MR. m i s m a s : 1 don't have to give you
5 a basis under Ohio Rules.
6 BY MR. DORAN:
7
q
so in other'words, paragraph 7 would
8 then indicate that intake exhaust manifold had water pump
9 and oil pan gaskets manufactured by the victor products
10 Division of the former Dana; corporation during your years
11 of employment between '68 and 2006 were both
12 asbestos-containing and non asbestos-containing?
13
MR. m i s m a s : Objection. Leading.
14
q
is that how you would change your
15 answer`to paragraph 6?
'
16
A
MR. MISMAS: objection.' Leading. Yes. I would add oil pan gaskets to
17
18
the list of gasket types named in No. 7.
q
And how would you or anybody else be
19 20
able to determine whether a specific gasket, whether an
21 exhaust gasket or head gasket or oil pan gasket contained
22 asbestos as opposed to not containing asbestos?
23 24
MR. m i s m a s : objection.
A
you would have to go and look at the
25 engineering file for a particular gasket number.
0150 1
q
okay, is there any other way to
2 determine whether or not a particular victor gasket
3 4
contained asbestos?
,
.
MR. m i s m a s : objection. Leading.
5
outside the scope or knowledge.
A
a s a general rule, appearance does
6 7
not tell you at all if a gasket'contained asbestos or
8 not y o u would have to look at the -- we called it a
9 recipe card of what the components were that went into
10 the gasket.
MR _ d o r a n : Thank you. That's all I
11
12 13
h3.vs `
m r . m i s m a s : I have a few questions.
14
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
15 BY M R . MISMAS:
16
q
,
_ ,
By looking at a gasket, can you tell
17 18
whether it contained asbestos or not? MR. d o r a n : objection. ,
19
" a
No. You cannot tell because the
20 colors of the asbestos material and non asbestos material
21 were the same.
Were
colors of asbestos materials
22
23 24
and cork materials the same?
. .
MR. d o r a n : objection.
25
A
I 'm sorry. You are correct, y o u
0151 1
could
look
at
a
cork
rubber
gasket
and
know
positively
2 3
that it did not contain asbestos.
q
okay. But so if it was something
4 else, if it was something else other than cork, it might
5 6
contain asbesto's?
MR. DORAN: Ob.j.ec.tion to th.e rform orr
7 8
the questioAn.
It coul,d, ,have contai.ned, asb,estos
9 during the period of time that some of the gaskets were
10 asbes
^
Ancj yOU would agree with me that an
11 12
experienced mechanic would know what materials he was
13 14
.
USin9'
m r . d o r a n : objection to the form of
15 the question, calls for speculation.
.
16
A
17
.
q
l don't know. You never changed a gasket on an
18 19
automobile, have you?
.
A
No. But I have seen it done in
20 21
classes all the time, and my dad did it.
,
- q
And you are not an experienced -
and
22 you are not an experienced auto mechanic, are you?
23 24
A
no.
. .
,
MR. DORAN: objection to the form.
25
q
And you are basically speculating on
0152 1
whether
someone
can
tell
whether
an
experienced
auto
2 mechanic can tell whether someone had asbestos if in it
16 17 18 19 20 21 ' 22 23 24 25 0155
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
.
i have
oaae 1 throuqh 154
P PAGE
read the and note
LINE
foregoing transcript from the following corrections:
REQUESTED CHANGE
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0156 1
Marcy Duncan
subscribed and sworn to before me this ---- day of_________________ _ 2010. .
Notary Public My commission expires: ------------------- --------
state of Ohio,
)) ss: CERTIFICATE
2 county of Lake.
)
,
._ '
3
' i, George 3. staiduhar, a court Reporter
4 in and for the state of Ohio, duly commissioned
5 and qualified, do hereby certify that the within
6 named witness, Marcy Duncan, was by
7 me first duly sworn to testify to the truth, the
8 whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the cause
9 aforesaid; that the testimony then given by her was
10 by me reduced to stenotypy/computer in the presence
11 of said witness, afterward transcribed by me, and
12 that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript
13 14
of the testimony so given by her as aforesaid. I do further certify that this deposition was
15 taken at the time and place in the foregoing caption
16 specified^ further certify that I am not a relative,
17 18
counsel, or attorney of either party, or otherwise
19 20
interested in the event of thi$ action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
21 hand and affixed my seal of office at Cleveland,
22 Ohio, on this 8th day of Dune, 2010.
23
George 3. staiduhar, Notary Public in and for the state of Ohio. My commission
25
expires Duly 9th, 2012.