Document rxrByy9xmK7KpkxGM1Yxq4EBv

FILE NAME Keene KNE DATE 1983 DOC KNE001 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION 1983 Excerpt from Legal Deposition of John McCallister with page of BC notes oo 1950 nonmalignant ling conditionsconditions finger showed showed finger finger heard diseacslluebbiinng g Selikoff's of A before before learning learningthen alt Mesothelioma Mesothelioma family ffamilay milyfiledHarner's 72 filed 1960 produ1cts960 processesproducts anpdrocesses proceses as as Navy other ( Koo uw f Kouw <b ndetarekK ef Data Pee research at SaranaeSaranaeSaranaeSaranae u employee while C about 1198Ehr-EethreetmployeKeene 1952-19791952-1979 chemist NJ C7 recails from by 20,31 Ehret calciumcalcium calcium silicate tdoivetipa divetipa ddiveitipvaetipa divetipa aden product did for Ehret magnesia calcium scale Trials scale magnesiamagnesia 1832 1832 1832 4 magnesiaproduct Called magnesia product product years product finishing operationoperation 4 dust collectors collectors in processant on finishing run employemizing employemizing upi employemizing to wear ah ey goggles respristor 4 respristorresprisrteosrpristor respristor goggles foreciting foreciting foreciting ee andfinishing expermental prodent allum e allum allum expermental expermental prodent in 19581958 or 1959 ) process was commerciacommerciaElized and allum bought silicate for MicAllisterMicAllister bought and bought respirators these andand surveyed thethe surveyed respirators these market were bought bought wid given chest samplingavailapblelant ) given insurerin19518 958 cnet e , is { oon tr 4 Soe ) cece oe eee ow PON oe IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICDISTRICT T COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA . NORFOLK AND NEWPORT NEWS DIVISIONS 3 IN RE ALL ASBESTOS CASE : C.P. NO 77-1 ited RES RES RES 28 oo IN RE MASSACHUSETTS ASBESTOS CASES IN RE KEY HIGHWAY FAIRFIELD AND SPARROWS POINT 15 SHIPYARDS - ASBESTOS CASES MASSACHUSETTS MULTIPLE LITIGATION NOS 1 and 2 M.B.L. Nos 1 and 2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS ; B.M.L. 1 B.M.L. B.M.L. NO NO : B.M.L. B.M.L. B.M.L. . : CALL CASES UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF MARYLAND HELEN K. GALIARDI : individually and as Executrix of the Estate of : JOHN C. GALIARDI | Plaintiff | -against- NANVILLE CORPORATION | et al 62 Civ 0804 UNITED COURT OF NEW STATES DISTRICT EASTERN DISTRICT YORK Defendants 23 24 25 , 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 1910 928-9300 L L KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 | OUT OF TOLL FREF 1.800 532.4555 532.4555 John John McAllister 76 1 2 i 3 ^' en Oh LA STIPULATION 5 ft 0 | 7 | 8 S 10 11 ), 12 13 14 It is hereby stipulated among Counsel Counsel for the respective respective parties that certification certification and filing are waived and that all objections except as to the form of questions questions e waived until the time of trial SCHMIDT Are there any other statements 16 | 17 hk MR SILBERT Off the record Whereupon Whereupon discussions were held off the record record from 9:14 a to 9:15 a.m 18 | 19 J caterer AMIDT AMIDT { i 20 fia, } Sir would you please state your name j 21 and address for the record . 22 A. My name is John D. McAllister T- 23 - My address is 1474 Woodacres Drive Mountainside 24 New Jersey 07092 25 echladillnpee TT TT Ee Te Terap Gai il aa feme in | 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 | Ss KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 978-9300 OUT OF PATOLL PATOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister correct A. That is correct Q. Have you given a deposition regarding asbestos related matters at any other time | ithan that deposition A. Not to the best of my memory Q, Sir could you briefly describe your employment history from the time that you left school and put in the appropriate dates A. To simplify matters would suggest that I give you a copy of my resume ja ja I will show you document and ask if you can identify that 17 h. e e a e :Q. What is that document A 18 19 That is my current resume MR SCHMIDT te I would like to have This marked as Exhibit , please 20 Whereupon McAl McAll listi er Mcs Allistet r #e iswr as 21 marked for identification purposes as of . 22 this date date March March 30 1983 1983 1983 1 _ | 23 BY MR SCHMIDT 24 1Q I understand Mr. McAllister from your 25 ume that you were employed by Illinois from | | 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 kK<ommr KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES (215)978-9300 (215)978-9300 OUT OF TOLL FREE 1-800 573-4656 | John McAllister 18 1948 to 19527 ; A. That's correct A. And subsequently you were employed by . Ehret Magnesia Baldwin and Keene Corporation from 1952 up until 1970 A. Let us back track just a second the start of employment with Illinois was 1947 not 1948 In { I ; by answer to your last question yes I was employed Ehret Magnesia and the successor corporations through | He. July Mr. of 1970 McAllister when did you first become aware of the disease process asbestosis A. As a possible disease process I became aware of it when I was working for Illinois as an from the known hazards of silicosis resulting Houtshoot 16 from inhalation of crystalline silica particles 17 1Q And when if at all did you first become 12 re of research regarding lung diseases that were 19 done at the Saranac Laboratories in New York 20 A. In my employment at Illinois there were 21 periodic staff meetings at which were reported 22 research and development results and findings One 23 such report involved a brief summary of an going 24 investigation involving potential respiratory hazards 25 resulting from inhaling diatomaceous earth which was James 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES (215)928-9300 i| oa=z OUT OF TOLL FREE 1-800-5234656 | John McAllister 19 one of the calcium silicate raw materials used in the kaylo manufacturing operation Berlin Q What did you do while you were at Owens- Illinois to familiarize yourself with the raw materials used there "A. I was hired as a plant chemist to start up | , the Sayreville Plant at some point in the future i | As plant chemist my areas of | raw materials characteristics responsibility were and control as they might affect the process and product characteristics I made fairly extensive literature arches on all raw materials used in the process 13 14 employed by Ehret Magnesia as to the raw mate 15 Used in their production process | 16 | | { MR LEDWITH MR SCHMIDT bjection What's the basis MR LEDWITH Leading question I to the form of the question 20 MS KAHN I also object to the 21 ST nae 22 BY MR SCHMIDT 23 Q. Well what did you do while -- what if 24 anything did you do while at Ehret Magnesia and 25 Baldwin and Keene Corporation to familiarize i 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 | L KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES t (215)928-9300 (215)928-9300 OUT OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 , 20 John McAllister 1 yourself with the raw materials used 2 A. My initial hiring at Ehret Magnesia was 3 for the purpose of putting them into the calcium 4 silicate business using a forming and molding S process Licensed to them by Pabco Insulations That molding | 6 process was very sensitive to raw materials | 7 characteristics In an attempt to develop a viable 8 molding process for calcium silicate in that plant S I made very extensive not only literature researches ; 10 ~ but experimental trial runs of batches in a pilot 1 plant supplied to me by Ehret Magnesia for a period of | | | 12 about four years prior to commercial production of | 13 the Thermosil product line | 74 Now in the course of that extensive 1.Q. | 19 research which you described to what iterature 11 lextent, if at all did you become aware of reports : concerning 17 asbestos related diseases emanating from | 12 South Africa 19 A. Time period approximately 1955 to 1957 or 20 58 there began to appear in the literature articles 21 Habout children in South Africa playing on amosite . high 22 vaste dumps and such children having an unusually . 23 incidence of respiratory problems 24 1 mens oe oe of your Tal 25 duties duties Deeb LL inois inois ero rer VE TOOT EO OH | 400 \, PHILADELPHIA FLOOR E 928-9300 KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 = John McAllister 31 Qa. Now I understand you started with Ehret Magnesia in 1952 A. That is correct a Could you describe the nature of your initial duties at Ehret Magnesia A. I was hired under the job title Director of Research which was a In point of fact for misnomer as events Later the first three and half proved years of my employment with Ehret Magnesia I served as 10 a Research and Development Engineer building and 11 supervising the operation of a pilot plant to produce { J 12 i calcium silicate and to put Ehret Magnesia into the 13 calcium silicate business using the Pabco 74 patented molding process 75 Q. And how Long were these your duties 16 A. Approximately three and a half years as is 17 indicated in fesume. 13 Q. And where did you perform those duties 19 A. | 20 Q. In the Ehret Magnesia Plant at Valley Forge And to what extent if at all would you have 21 had occasion to visit the production areas of the 22 Ehret Magnesia Plant at Valley Forge at this -- 23 during this time 24 A. My office was immediately adjacent to the 25 Mold floor The pilot plant was in that same portion " 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR | PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES kK KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PATOLL PATOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 32 John McAllister 1 of the plant one floor above the mold floor and one 2 floor below the mixing floor which were superimposed 3 on each other I obviously in the course of 4 my daily activities visited both the mold floor 5 my office and the pilot plant ' | 6 When the pilot plant was in operation ! 7 the product produced was put through the normal plant : E drying equipment and was cut in the normal plant 9 finishing equipment 10 Q. And did you have occasion to observe the 11 operation of that equipment | 12 A. I did 13 10 Now what products were made at the Valley | Forge 14 Plant during that roughly three and a half | 15 years that we're talking about 1 A. 85 magnesia Ehret's tradename was 17 Thermalite E and insulating | 13 cement | ! There was additionally for a very 20 brief period of time a line of asbestos gaskets I 21 made at that plant 22 fe. The Thermalite was that both pipe covering 23 and block 24 A Yes 25 Q Now of those products that you have mentioned , PHILADELPHIA 19106 KNIPES COHEN PHONES 928-9300 | | om ASSOCIATES OUT OF PATOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 1-800-523-4656 4 John McAllister 33 1 which of those products if any contained asbestos 2 at that point in time 3 A. They all contained asbestos 4 A. Both amosite and chrysotile @. And what were the sources of that amosite | and chrysotile A | being Essentially the sources for the same as I've Illinois described The chrysotile 10 asbestos came from domestic and Canadian sources 11 on at the time which were Johns Manville 12 National Gypsum and Ruberoid 13 The amosite asbestos came from Cape 14 Asbestos Newall North American Asbestos or 15 Nother brokers 16 Qa. Now other than asbestos what other types of 17 Faw Materials were used at the Valley Forge Plant at that time 19 i.A. For 85 Magnesia production magnesium oxide 20 as used wetting agent dispersant called 21 rse used For the asbestos gasket operation 22 asbestor cloth which was primarily spinning gray 23 chrysotile was used along with rubber based cements of 24 one sort -- --another 25 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 kK KNIPES COHEN @ ASSOCIATES PHONES (215)928-9300 (215)928-9300 OUT OF TOLL FREE 1-800-573-4656 1-800-573-4656 John McAllister 36 1 BY MR SCHMIDT 2 Agen et VOc U nent ni ent Age encies s are you 3 speaking 4 A. ALL of the Government Agencies which Used S thermal insulations These included Navy Yards and 6 docks Navy facilities the Coast Guard GSA and other 7 Government Agencies involved in heat conservation 8 system within their buildings or equipment 9 LQ. jf To what extent at all were the asbestos 10 containing products sold sold by Ehret Magnesia to the 11 Navy in the early 1950's for use onboard Naval 12 el 13 A. 74 m not quite sure I understand that 15 16 17 Q. The products that were sold to the Navy 18 here were they to be used 19 .A In the case of products served to Naval 20 facilities and Yards and docks agencies the products would 21 have been used either aboard ship or at shore ; 22 based operations of the Navy : 23 a Now Now you dest dest The the process 24 these various asbestos containing I materials -- well 25 let yel PA A PHONES 928-9300 PHILADELP1H91I06A HAIPES ASSOCIATES ar OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister 39 conveyor The conveyor fed those cylinders through a bandsaw which simultaneously trimmed both ends the product cylinder was and fed then that thirty inch Long Fa Longitudinally through another bandsaw which t Cylinders | cut the cylinder into two Lf fp half then wrap cylinders Those two half ay were Jacketted by a man using canvas as an outer around to hold the two half sections together Once the jacket had been installed on that piece of pipe | carton i | sealed covering it xe and shipped Af The block was put in a carton The trimming operation involved yY taking a series of block from the dryer cars 16 stacking them up on a bandsaw table and end trimming 17 18 19 20 21 Q@. And what type of dust control equipment if 22 any did you observe at the Valley Forge Plant in 23 the early 1950's 24 iA Dust collecting equipment per se was used 25 for dust Control on the mixing floor in the asbestos 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES kk HAIPES ASSOCIATES 928-9300 215 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4658 | John McAllister 40 conveyor and fiberizing area -- _ CO tree mre athet- word THE WITNESS Fiberizing sorr | i I'm having mouth trouble at the mog^nt eo control In the around finishing operation air dust the end trim - and and Longitudinal Longitudinal splitting saws was also 4% in use Additionally espirators in general of the surgical mask nuisance dust type ere 2 a) in use by some of the employees in both areas = BY MR SCHMIDT s 13 Ga, NOW was f the dust collecting equipment that ! c described 14 you've described that was @ suction type of 15 equipment f 76 A Yes * 17 " f 13 13 BY MR SCHMIDT MR LEDWITH Objection 19 19 How did that dust collecting equipment 20 perat what was the general principle on which it 21 22 A hood on which negative pressure was 23 posed by a suction fan pulling in ambient air across | 24 | the face of the work area up into the dust | 25 | colecting collecting -- up intc o theo dust dusl t collectlect | 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 ; | John McAllister 41 Into bag type TTS, - And if I understand your testimony correctly that dust collector was dust collecting equipment in the early 1950's in both the initial phases of the manufacturing process and in the finishing operation A That's correct MR MS KAHN Object THE WITNESS There was dust collecting | equipment at that point in time as I | | 1 previously stated both on the mixing floor | {| during the -- in the finishing oper BY MR SCHMIDT Q. NOW was the dust collecting equipment at either location modified during the time that you were Vat the Valley Forge Plant | | A t Yes sir during the period of time when the - 19 Plant was being modified to accept a calcium silicate 20 Coperation alongside of the magnesia operation addi- | tional 21 equipment was installed on the mixing or batch . 22 floor That additional equipment consisted of a 23 new hood at the asbestos unloading area ahead of the asbestos 24 mill a separate cyclone collector for use with 25 ! a calcium silicate mixing operation and also 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES Ss KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES (215)928-9300 (215)928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-5234656 John McAllister 44 industrial one seat gasoline operated type vacuum cleaner only to with a large straight run bag filter walkways it It was had not access useable in the congested areas of the plant And in those areas the housekeeping continued to be by manually operated push brooms d i@. | Can you describe in a little more detail the nature of your duties in getting Ehret Magnesia into the calcium silicate business and the operation of the pilot plant to which you referred 13 7 BY MR SCHMIDT MR SCHMIDT MR LEDWITH Too gen 75 Q. Te A 17 Do you understand question I think but let me start and if you 13 19 A. As I stated earlier I was hired primarily to 20 put Ehret Magnesia into the calcium silicate 21 business was hired based on my previous experience 22 with Illinois in producing calcium silicate The 23 first three and half years of my employ with j 24 Ehret Magnesta as I said earlier involved researching ' raw 25 raw materials in an attempt to develop a rav materials J t 1 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 | | E PHONES KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 E OUT OF PATOLL PATOLL FREE 1-800-5234656 I | John McAllister 45 formulation through pilot plant work that met the molding requirements of the Pabco Licensing equipment At - the same time produced a commercially acceptable . final product calcium silicate During the course of this three and a half years I utilized a small pilot plant immediately under the mixing floor in the Valley Forge Plant which was operated by an unskilled Laborert who mixed small experimental batches of calcium silicate 10 slurry Molded them indurated them in the pilot 11 plant and then dried them in the plant drying 12 equipment Finished them in the plant finishing 13 equipment and tested them with the plant testing 14 equipment 16 Q. That's adequate detail Thank 17 Now to what extent extent if at all did you recommend that that individuat use any special 19 equipment in performing those duties 20 LEDWITH Objection 21 SCHMIDT What basis 22 LEDWITH Form 23 SCHMIDT What about the form 24 le ing 25 BY MR SCHMIDT { 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 i t kK KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES on PHONES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800 523-656 John McAllister 66 question object as to the form BY MR 19 19 SCHMIDE if any did that duties individual ~~ use what special equipment in the course of those A. What sam because he was responsible for mixing batches the ingredients of in nature was instructed to wear a which were respirator hazardous of pneumocononic resistance for such airborne dust 12 protection He was also instructed to wear goggles 13 and rubber gloves 14 The reason that he was instructed to do 15 that w that of the raw materials used in the 16 experimental batches these hazards existed A powdered 17 isodium silicate was one of the ingredients It's | 12 highly caustic in nature A Silica flour was used The 19 known hazards of silicosis were apparent Asbestos fiber 20 Was used and the potential hazards of asbestosis were 21 were recognized by me Lime was used and it is also ; 22 caustic and alkaline and presents a skin hazard 23 For those purposes he was instructed 24 to to use protective clothing and respirators i 25 | Smet SWORD SWORD SWORD . Hove strike MARKET STREET FLOOR | 400 19106 PHILADELPHIA PA t E COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 5234656 OUT OF TOLL FREE 1-800 5234656 1 John McAllister 47 ^-o= n Hye MS KAHN I join in that MR SCHMIDT what grounds MR SWORD I think he went beyond BY MR SCHMIDT Q. To what extent if at all was any special equipment used by that individual in the finishing operation to which you referred 10 A. When this was involved in cutting and 17 finishing of experimental product he wore a respirator 12 and he wore goggles at my request 13 a's Okays Nowy type of respirator respirator you which which you 74 have described there to what extent if at all 15 that similar to the type of respirator which you 16 became familiar while working for Owens Illinois 17 MR LEDWITH Objection 18 BY MR SCHMIDT 19 20 21 22 23 24 them a Well you described described both as being pneumocononic respirators What difference if any Was there between the respirator with which you became familiar at Illinois and the respirator which you recommended that your assistant use in the pilot plant 25 A Lage nl nal tai + ~ ~ * 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 k KNIPES COHEN PHONES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PATOLL PATOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister 48 to what extent if at all were those special kind of respirators made available available to other employees in the plant at Valley Forge generally MS KAHN Object to the form of | the question MR SCHMIDY On what basis MS KAHN Your characterization of the respirator is not that of the witness You've incorporated in your question facts to which he didn't testify MR SCHMIDT Could I hear my question back please Whereupon the question was read BY MR SCHMIDT 18 @. To what extent if at all were the 19 pneumocononic respirators you have mentioned available 20 to employees at the Valley Forge Plant generally 21 iA. At that point in time I don't know 22 Subsequent to commercialization of calcium silicate 23 at Valley Forge that same type of respirator became 24 available to all employees from store room issue 25 10 And what involvement if any did you have in | STREET 400 MARKET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 Ssrer COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 1-800-523-4656 \ John McAllister 49 that coming about \ , A At the request of Mriw Howells I surveyed such respirator types availability Q. Who was Mr. Howell A. Mr. Howell was President in charge of Purchasing for Ehret Magnesia 10 And what type of survey did you make re I surveyed all sources available to me of respirators specific to pneumotonosous type airborne 1 dust 10 protection and established that type that I had 11 previously obtained for my employees in the pilot 12 plant was the best type available And Mr. Howell subsequently arranged to make such respirators available plant to all Ehret employees ) Q. And what time frame are you speaking of A. That would have been Late '58 early '59 I believe 13 13 19 20 21 Q. jwere { When was the taken to weasure first time if at all * the amount of airborne airborne that dust at Valley Forge ! MR steps 22 23 24 25 MS KAHN object to the form On what basis think the question is | 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR | PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 , ' kK PHONES 928-9300 KAIPES ASSOCIATES 215 omar OUT OF PATOLL FREE 1-800 523-4656 John McAllister 51 orning Let the BY MR SCHMIDT e Did you understand the question I would like to have it repeated | SCHMIDT | Read back the question please 12 13 BY MR 76 Q. Whereupon the Court Reporter read the last question to the witness A. Yes I don't know that I can answer it 16 specifically However to my knowledge there was 17 la dust survey made by Pennsylvania Manufacturing Association Ehret Magnesia's insurance carrier 19 I believe for Workmens Compensation That survey 20 was made approximately middle Late 1958. And it 21 involved taking air samples on the batch floor and 22 in the finishing department 23 Qa, And specifically what was being looked for 24 in taking these air samples 25 la. To the best of my knowledge two specific | STREET 400 MARKET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 1 PHONES K KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 { John McAllister 52 _ airborne dusts One of them chrysotiline silica and the other one asbestos fibers Q. Now what type of employment physical examinations if any were you given when going with Ehret Magnesia in 1952 A. I was given a general physical examination consisting of a chest ray normal body examination hernia or heart murmur respirator murmur blood for pressure and urinalysis Qa. After the Pennsylvania Manufacturers 11 survey that you've mentioned to what extent if at all 12 were additional chest rays provided at Valley Forge 13 MS KAHN 1 obj 14 the question 15 MR SCHMIDT On what basis 16 MS KAHN I do think that it's a 17 Leading question and also think that -- Well perhaps I could hear it again 19 MR LEDWITH Read that over again 20 Whereupon the Court Reporter read 21 back last question f 22 y MR SCHMIDT Let me ask a little 23 24 25 ' 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 eo ? PHONES KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 r John McAllister 53 chest rays provided at Valley Forge MR LEDWITH I object MR SCHMIDT On what basis MR LEDWITH It's unclear | Question BY MR SCHMIDT Q. / Do you understand e question sir og MR LEDWITH I'll tell you why 10 it's unclear You're using the word 11 provided what do you mean by provided 12 you mean Ehret provide it did someone 13 else Fovide it 74 BY MR [Q@, i. 16 A. you understand my question sir 17 iQ. | 13 A There were two occasions after the PMA air : 19 survey on which the Montgomery Tuberculosis Association i] H 20 Mobile Chest ray Unit was brought on plant site and 21 made available to all those employees at the Valley 22 Forge Plant who wished to use it 23 HQ, 24 talking about the Pennsylvania Pennsylvania Manufacturers Association 25 Survey : mentioned ? j 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR | PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES \s KAIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES (215)928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4658 | John McAllister 57 1 Insulation the acoustical celtdl le . 2 3 fa. And where were these various asbestos containing 4 products manufactured 5 A. ' knowledge Two places again to the best of my | i 6 Trenton New Jersey and Kalamazoo Michigan | 7 Q. | And did the manufacture of those products 8 continue after the relationship with Ehret Magnesia Pin : fl Pin 1959 | 10 1A Yes ! i . At those same Locations | 12 +A, Yes | 13 a. And at some point in time did you physically | 74 did | your office physically change from Valley Forge 15 Ito another Location | 16 ja Yes 10 | 77 And when was that { 18 LA In 1964 | 19 a. And where was your office moved to or where . 20 did you move to ! A. 21 From Valley Forge to Trenton - 22 He. And did you remain at Trenton until the time 23 that you left in 1970 24 A. No. 25 k. Okay 400 | PHILADELPHIA 19106 KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES OUT OF PA PHONES 1-800 523-4656 523-4656 John McAllister 58 A. - When the Keene merger with Baldwin Hill I was occurred to an office in transferred Princeton from the Trenton office Qa. And when approximately did that occur A 1968 @. Are you familiar with the National Insulation Manufacturers Association ij @. 10 A. What was the nature of that organization It was a trade organization which had a 11 forerunner in the Magnesia Insulation Manufacturers 12 Association and it has been succeeded by the t 13 Thermal Insulation Manufacturers Association It's 14 avowed purpose as I understand it was to jointly 15 exchange interest and solve problems common to the 16 industry without violating the restraint of trade 17 egalities 18 Q. ! And when if at all were you involved in the - 19 activities of that organization 20 actives e From 1966 through 1970 21 hat 22 organization during that period ime what other 23 companies 24 A. I don't remember specifically and my list 25 wil 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19108 , , KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-80-523-4RSA 1-800-523-4RSA 1-800-523-4RSA John McAllister 59 rd Qa. Are you aware as to whether whether or not Ruberoid WaS a member during that period of time ' MS HESSION Objection BY MR SCHMIDT '@. And what was the nature of your involvement in | A that organization I was Baldwin Keene's representative 11 on the Technical and Research Committee of that | 12 rganization And from time to time served as 13 an ad hoc member of the Government Relations 14 Committee of that organization @. And during the time that you were a member of 76 the Technical and Research Committee what was the 17 nature of the activities of that Committee 13 A. Primary activities of that Committee were 19 to police the specifications validity of member products 20 data sheets and to attempt to have Government 21 specifications and ASTM specifications reflect the - 22 realities of product characteristics as produced by 23 the individual members 24 Q. ed OTE activites activites activites o he 25 other canni nT TE tumed tumed tumed petting t | 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR | PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 5 KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 | John McAllister 62 1 Q. Now as Manager of Technical Services from 1966 to 197U what involvement if any did you have in reviewing the sales material of Baldwin and Keene Corporation | A. On several occasions Baldwin had | sale brochures produced by McGraw Hill | It was My responsibility to review and prepare initial copy | been for put those brochures And once the brochure had together by McGraw Hill to edit and proofread final copy prior to publication and prior to use in 11 Sweet's and McGray's Blue Book 12 jaw 13 material from 1966 to 1970 did you ever see anything 74 in any of that material advising customers that there | 15 asbestos 16 containing materials described in that sales material MS KAHN oject to the form of 18 the question 19 20 21 22 23 SCHMIDT On what grounds ' KAHN He did not testify that reviewed sales information so much as prepared Cypy for them I believe the record would 24 BY MR SCHMIDT | 25 @. In preparing copy for the salesmen what would 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 k k KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PATOLL PATOLL FREE 1-800 523-4656 John McAllister 63 .. I would use previous similar publications as a base set of copy and revise it to reflect any changes that had occurred in a specific product retative to the copy therefore and then submit that finally revised copy to the Sales Manager for his approval Q. point And who was the Sales Manager at that 10 a. Miles Wilsont ; 11 Q. And at any point between 1966 and 1970 were 12 you Ver requested to revise any of that sales 13 material with respect to inserting any cautionary 14 Language in that material concerning any hazards or 15 dangers of exposure to asbestos 16 he No. 17 18 (@. onthe Shenae nee en ona den ke Sure I'm just about finished Xe 19 A. Do you want to Finish then 20 Q. No if you want to brick , let's take a break 21 I've got about five minutes -- ---- 22 Whereupon a break was taken from 23 11:15 a until 11:20 a.m. 24 MR SWORD On behalf of H. K. Porter 25 , in the 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES (215)928-9300 COHEN ASSOCIATES (215)928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4856 John McAllister pending BY MR and the SCHMIDT Connecticut litigation Q. 64 New York_ E Let star T t D In the course of performing those rf |:duties did you ever see any such cautionary Language 11 in any of that sales material with which you were 12 involved 13 AY \ 74 re Not that I remember Nowy 15 Ehret Magnesia who were the top management i people of i 10 Magnesia Ehret Magnesia at that time time and what were their their aq 17 positions 12 A Alvin M. Ehret Jr. President Mike Howell President Purchasing Russell Crawford Secretary and TreasureRr. N. Kinsey Plant Manager Utley Smith | Y Sales Manager later replaced by ; Samuel Garte Ss A as Sales Manager 23 What about the Research Department 24 A. I'm not sure that Research Department is the 25 nation, Technical Technical supe ae eee 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 j PHONES KNIPES COHEN 928-9300 ASSOCIATES 215 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800 523-465E ' | John McAllister 65 1 2 3 4 ness S with | 6 7 8 9 | 10 | 11 12 | . Okay thank you _ Now you've described your own aware- S to asbestos related disease Ehret in 1952 prior to coming MR COSTANTINO I believe he described asbestosis is the only awareness that he | | WITNESS And silicosis | COSTANTINO And silicosis SCHMIDT I'm going to restate ~ 13 BY MR SCHMIDT 74 Q. You discussed the nature of your ness of 15 asbestos disease prior to coming with Ehret Magnesia 76 in 1952. To what extent if at all did you communicate 17 your awareness to other persons at the Ehret Magnesia 18 Valley Forge Plant ; 19 I 20 | fj 27 22 MS KAHN object as well I think it's a compound He stated his : 23 24 BY MR 400 PHILADELPHIA 19106 KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 9300 523-4656 523-4656 John McAllister 661 + ( AL As I previously testified my awareness of potential chemical this morning hazards known I made to Matthofendual who worked for the I also made that awareness of potential pilot plant hazards known to Kinsey DeMaestri the individual shift foremen the and batch mixing personnel in the production operation the Finishing Department personnel in the production operation by word of mouth 10 Q. 11 liso And over what period of time did you do 1A During that period of time that I was actively 13 involved at Valley Forge from inception of pilot plant 74 work which was probably starting 1953 through until my transfer to Trenton which I believe was 76 162 7965 17 19 20 | 21 note that Mr. McAllister's recollection is being refreshed again by resume MR SCHMIDT- As to the date that's perfectly permissible permissible - 22 THE WITNESS That's --- the time 23 period is 1966 1902 24 BY MR SCHMIDT i] 25 18 | And in Light of the previous objection what , 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 S 926-9300 Loan KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-573-465E John McAllister 67 \ did you communicate to these people that you have named A. That there was certainly hazard involved in silica flours relative to silicosis and that there was probable hazard early on with asbestosis and certain hazard after 1959 with asbestosis fa, And again in light of that objection could 8 you again name the people that you communicated this to 10 A. Mr. Kinsey Mr. DeMaestri the shift 11 supervisors Mr. Cox Mr. Ward Mr. Harley and Mr. 12 Kinney the production mixing personnel the brothers 13 Butter a Mr. Merriwether and a fourth 14 mixing operator whose name I have forgotten the 15 inishing personnel involved whose names I do not 76 remember 17 An And sd t oe Be a oe ee 18 what point in time did you begin to 19 tion to these persons convey this informa- 20 Objection First off 21 there are different types of information - 22 that you referred to earlier and I think 23 s a question the question is unclear and 24 25 BY MR SCHMIDT ; 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 < KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES (215)928-9300 (215)928-9300 OUT OF TOLL FREE 1-800-573-4RSE 1-80-573-4RSE 1-800-573-4RSE 1-800-573-4RSE John McAllister 68 Qa. . o wpe on te Can't say that I do sorry MR LEDWITH He concurs BY MR SCHMIDT Q. The matters which you communicated communicated which you've just described I did you begin to communicate at what point in this information time to the persons that you have named 10 11 12 13 | 74 | 76 17 0 20 21 | 22 MR LEDWITH objection Again note my MR SCHMIDT SCHMIDT MR LEDWITH On what grounds First off you're referring t a general body of information and I assu that it was contained in the questions He described I believe the hazards of silica flour probable hazards early of asbestosis certain hazards after 195 he described four at least fifteen prople that he described these things to at different periods of time I don't see how he can answer a question phrased as you - 23 BY MR SCHMIDT 24 le, What do you mean by early on 25 A Prior to 1959 defines early -- --And at that 400 MARKET STREET 10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 ic PHONES KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-455E John McAllister 69 point in time I think I stated that starting with the operation of the pilot plant -- Q@. Which was in A. Should have been in 1953 or thereabouts The certain hazard of silicosis from silica flour and the potential hazards for asbestosis from asbestos fiber those concerns Were made known to the individuals that I have listed ;@. Okay thank you 10 Now to what extent if at all did you 71 ibecowe aware of employees of the Valley Forge Plant developing dust related problems 13 A Dust related health problems 74 ia. Yes sir 15 A. There were three individuals employees of { 16 Ehret Magnesia at the Valley Forge Plant who showed 17 symptoms of or died of respiratory impairment One of them Ralph Lamkin who was Production Control | Supervisor died of lung cancer in Phoenixville Hospital approximately 1958 or 1959. Another one by the nam 21 of Domenie I believe Raniert A died 22 of a respiratory impairment and there was a Shift 23 Supervisor by the name of Julian Ward - not 24 N who had very severe breathing problems and 25 iclubbed fingernails And at one point in time was 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 E KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PATOLL PATOLL FREE 1-800 523-4656 John McAllister 70 having doctor his lungs flushed in the Norristown on a regular basis by a area The procedure and results of which flushing he described to me on several occasions and also pointed out to me that clubbed fingernails were a symptom of respiratory impairment A factor that I had not been previously aware of la. And what the nature of the Work performed by the Mr. Domenic Ranfert if I pronounced | 10 it correctly who you have mentioned 11 A. He had been a mixing operator in the old 12 process Ehret Magnesia magnesium operation At | 13 the time I knew him he was a member of the Maintenance | 14 Department | 15 @, And to what extent if at all were these | 16 dust related problems discussed among employees at the the 17 Valley Forge Plant | 18 A Difficult question to answer As in all 19 small societies when some member of that society 1 20 suffers an impairment that apparently is industry 21 related there is much discussion I can't speak for - 22 other employees at Ehret obviously but when these 23 instances occurred I certainly discussed with those 24 round Be at the time of notification the 25 possible implications of those dust related impairments " 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 re John McAllister 71 Q. And just as a point of clarification when { did you become aware that Mr. Pawg was suffering was experiencing respiratory problems A. I can't put a time period on it but it would have 1 during the been between 1956 - and approximately 1958 course of daily activities we sat next to each other the plant office .@, And if I understand your testimony correctly Schthe death of Mr. Skin Skin from Lung cancer occurred hat approximately the same time A. | @. correct Now when if at all did you first become aware of any studies concerning a possible ( relationship between exposure to asbestos and cancer ij { A About a year prior Selikott's publications of his findings on an investigation of the asbestos Workers from the New York and Brooklyn Shipyard area Q@. So that would have been approximately 1963 20 A. I believe that Selikoff published in '64 21 and this would have been a year prior to that if my - 22 dates for Selikoff's publications is correct 23 @. And what was your understanding a5 to the resulti 24 of that study that you mentioned 25 AY It's my understanding that Selikoff's paper 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-465 | John McAllister 12 established the relationship between asbestos in the Lungs and or Little at that point known form of in time a relatively unknown_ cancer called mesothelioma This was my first exposure to that term 2 34 understand you first learned of prior to joining Ehret the disease process Magnesia in 1952 asbestosis MR LEDWITH Objection MS Cee AeA Se) THe vor. 10 BY MR SCHMIDT 11 Q. When did you first learn of the disease process 12 asbestosis as distinguished from mesothelioma 13 ia. I Learned of the potential for asbestosis 14 while I was with Illinois 15 MR MR SCHMIDT Thank 16 questions 17 ; 18 19 MR Let's take a break whereupon a break Was taken from BBY Y 20 1 MR BURNETT 21 Q. Mr. McAllister I have a couple of questions- 22 | Were any Workers Compensation 23 claims brought by Mr. -- either Mr. Ward Mr. Ranieri or 24 Mr. Lamkin against BEH or at Ehret 25 la. It's my understanding that Mr. Ranieri's family | 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PATOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister 73 filed a claim that resulted in a suit @. Do you know if any employee of Ehret or BEH gave testimony in any proceeding in relation to that claim A. I don't know Qa. As a result of your <= strike that As a result of your participation in the Committete hast you have mentioned in NIMA do |you have an understanding of how the Government was 10 setting its specifications for asbestos containing 71 products at that period of time t | 12 1A Yes 13 @, What is that understanding 74 A. That understanding was that the Government 15 (was not setting its standards based on asbestos content 16 iper se The Government was setting its standards 17 based on selecting those commercially available 18 insulating products in the upper tier of quality and 19 performance 20 good insulation were testified by the Navy 21 Center in Annapolis Maryland during during the qualifications 22 procedure to add a product a qualified products List 23 for Navy and Government Government use that QPL in general 24 admitted that line or those insulating products which 25 wer : 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 ke 928-9300 KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 OUT OF PATOLL FREE LAM 5274ARLE 5274ARLE John McAllister 75 A. There were many such distributorship arrangements across the Country (|@- any distributors ? in Maryland A. which were Ehret distributors Wallace and Gate two L's in Wallace and Gale A Q. | Do you know when that relationship relationship was established iA. { I do not Were there any distributors in the . Philadelphia area with which Ehret had 13 relationship I | 14 i A. I believ that Philadelphia Asbestos Asbestos now 15 known S Pacor { S$ an Ehret distributor Additionally 16 Ehret had a Franch of its own a contracting branch 17 of its own in Philadelphia 18 MR CHEYNEY Objection move - 19 to strike that answer if it's overruled 20 21 BY MR BURNETT 22 Q, What did the -- what was the function of the 23 contracting branch of Ehret 24 A. To sell both material and erection of such 25 material to cust in the Philadelphia area ! 400 MARKET STREE FLOT OR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES $s KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 | John McAllister 76 9 Do you know the names of any of the 2 personnel involved in the application by Ehret of insulation material in the Philadelphia area A. That operation was headed up by an Ehret employee whose name I cannot remember at the moment But he was later -- I beg your pardon his name Dwight Satterwaite T Later succeeded by and replaced by Ed Hogstrom T 10 Q. Mr. McAllister did you ever observe the 11 installation of thermal insulation material 12 A. Many times 13 Q. Where did you observe that 14 A. During the construction of the Sayreville 15 Plant for Illinois During the modification of 16 the Valley Forge Plant of Ehret Magnesia and in 17 many many field trips of construction sites since 18 then 19 @. Have you ever observed the cutting of pipe 20 covering on a job site 21 A Yes - 22 @. Is that part of the normal use of the 23 i product 24 A. Yes 25 @. Teed atenttiaGnattRnenhatel minke hat . STREET | 400 MARKET 10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 E PHONES KNIPES ASSOCIATES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister 77 You mentioned certain dust collection equipment in relation to the manufacture of 85 Magnesia A. Yes Q. Do you know when that equipment was installed A. Not positively however prior to my employment by Ehret Magnesia in 1952 and of course subsequently during plant modification for 10 calcium silicate production 11 Qa. e 12 Were there ever any Pabco 13 present in the Ehret Plant bployees 74 A. 15 19 Yes Did you meet with them yourself 76 A. Yes Q On how many occasions A. Many occasions The Pabco relationship 19 was serviced by a man by the name of Marry Hoop 20 21 Forge Plant service the Licensing agreement of - 22 23 24 25 400 MARKET STREET 10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 PHONES KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES | 215 926-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4556 BY MS KAHN John McAllister 107 . CPR KO ewer EY Question Question Question A. I am not aware of it 0 And do you know whether or not Alvin SCHMIDT Objection to the | I BY MS KAHN 10 | Q. 1 Given your knowledge of asbestos as a 11 | potential 1 health hazard dating back to the 1950's I 12 weren't you afraid for your own safety while you were 13 working at the plant 14 SCHM SCHMI IDT D SCHMIT DT Objection Objection to the form 75 THE WITNESS I'm afraid when I 16 cross the street here in New York Yes 17 living has its own hazards And as long as reasonable precautionary conditions are 19 established people go on living 20 ane KAHNI KAHNI Hetty II ee 21 your your of assing reet in New York - 22 BY MS KAHN 23 Q. Out of your concern and you took reasonable 24 cautionary procedures did you not 25 A I tried to 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 926-9300 KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES wm. ewe mF me 215 wm, ok John McAllister Q. And what did you do A. I wore respirators when I was exposed to dust of any sort @. And you required other employees who were with you to also wear respirators did you not A, Those that were working for me There is a difference Q,. a a a 108 And isn't it true that you participated participated 10 in the design of the dust collection system that was 11 installed in connection with the calcium silicate silicate 12 operation 13 A. Where 14 @. At Ehret 15 A. I did not 16 Q. Didn't you testif in your last deposition 17 that you and Mr. Kinsey Mr DeMaestrf all played a 18 Part in designing the dust collection system that was 19 installed in connection with the calcium silicate 20 production 21 MR SCHMIDT Objection to the form 22 MR BURNETT I join in that 23 THE WITNESS I may have I do not 24 remember 25 BY MS KAHN 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19108 E KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-623-4856 | John McAllister 0 Just to complete your answer to an earlier question during your eighteeen years with the company did you do anything other than wear a respirator to protect your own health from hazards of asbestos exposure 111 vague BURNETT ObjessrOom bjessrom THE WITNESS I had occasional 10 ersonal chest rays 11 BY MS KAHN 12 Q@. Did you do anything else 13 A I wore goggles when it was necessary 14 Aside from that no 15 Q. Isn't it a fact Mr. McAllister that you | 16 do not really know what prompted the PMA dust study 17 that you testified about this morning 18 1A I don't know and I never so implied 19 Q@. Okay 20 { And isn't it also a fact that you 21 don't know specifically whether PMA was looking for 22 asbestos content specifically in these surveys 23 A, I don't know that that was their initial 24 intent I know that they found and reported asbestos 25 dust in their samples I | 40C MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19108 kc COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4856 John McAllister 754 working for me The point is though that there were - |res-pirators designed to protect against different hazards even at that time A | | 'Q2,. Oh yes And essentially you were concerned with with the silica hazard at that time Were you not : MR : Ejection : THE WITNESS All dust hazards BY MR LEDWITH 11 Q. So did you order a respirator for all dust 12 hazards at the time 13 A. The respirator that I ordered was reported 14 by the manufacturer to be adequate for airborne 15 dust 76 Q. You testified that you had a number of 17 protective devices supplied to this particular 18 employee including goggles and gloves 19 A. That's right 20 Qa. What were the goggles designed to protect 21 against - 22 A. Eye injury from caustics in the batch - 23 mixing 24 8 25 gloves I take it that was the same for the 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19105 i BeRIMee CMmawn fOeem tees - PHONES _ John McAllister 155 A. ey fibers Yes and mechanical abrasions from asbestos - Q. What was the name of that man that worked for you His name was P - N N Richard Penningtan @. maaan Fenret at the time was there not ww) h A. Yes but I think that needs some clarification There were a number of building designations but the structure was for i an out building garage which the plant structure continuous except was separate from that was | This on @ experimental second floor process that you set up of apparently a three story building You stated stated it was -- there was a department above you and a department A It was the third floor of under you right a four story building in that particular part of the overall 20 ture 27 @, that's where you did your work is it - 22 not 23 A. 24 yes That's where the pilot plant work was done 25 : 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR | PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 ic KAIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES - PHONES 215 9300 John McAllister 171 A. That's right my memory 1964 I beg your pardon Let refresh NO that would have been Subsequent to Q@. What are you refering refering to A. My resume @, Committees in 1964 A. This was at a point time when I was working in Trenton for McBride Director of Research for Baldwin ve nen 13 Q, The times that you met with these Government 74 employees though you did not discuss the asbestos 15 content of the thermal insulation 16 A. No. 17 Qa, 18 iA. It was never raised by anybody Not that I recall - 19 " Super Powerhouse Cement was made in Trenton 20 wasn't it 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes Q@, Isn't it true that the civilian version of it did not contain asbestos ees. THE WITNESS I'm not sure 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 K KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES that that's PHONES 13151038 13151038 0330 John McAllister 172 so I don't know but I don't believe that there was a difference between the civilian version and the version supplied to the Navy in terms of formulation BY MR LEDWITH Q Manager Well you were at that point -- oh you were of Technical Services from '66 to '70 is that right | A That's correct 10 @ And Research Engineer from '64 to '66 in 11 Trenton is that right | 12 A. | That's correct 13 'Q In those positions you Would know the 74 content of -- asbestos content of the products manufac- 15 tured by BEH wouldn't you t 76 MR CLANCY ~ Objection 17 THE WITNESS Yes yes but I just said I think that sofar as I remember there 19 was no difference in asbestos content betw 20 that Super Powerhouse made for civilian 21 consumption and that Super Powerhouse Cement 22 made for Navy specifications That's in 23 ms of asbestos content Now at one 24 point in time there was a@ superimposed 25 Navy specification that dealt with chloride 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PA PHILADELPHIA 19106 k KAIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928 9300 John McAllister 173 stress corrosion cracking inhibitioans it related to Super Powerhouse Cement - And in that instance the cement supplied for that purpose had a different formulation than , Super Powerhouse Cement supplied for for both civilian consumption and normal Navy consumption BY MR LEDWITH The difference involved the addition sodium silicate as a chloride inhibiting mechanism 12 Q. Now you testified this morning morning that that 13 Ehret and BEH had distributors 74 15 j@. Well when you were hired by Ehret in 1952 16 you had nothing to No with distributors did you 17 imply that I did 18 19 20 21 to do with 22 Q, 23 about And you testified I believe this morning - ~ perhaps I'm wrong but did you say there were 24 Workmen Compensation claims against BEH 25 iA That's my understanding 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES (215)926-9300 (215)926-9300 John McAllister (ome ae LO we eres " some geographical -- I has | afternoon appointm BY MR CLANCY destroyed my lister I'm Michael Clancy 176 Q I would Like to discuss with you a few 10 Iminutes the transition from Baldwin to 11 Keene 12 A. | i 13 i@, Yes sir Before that change over took place what was your position I believe werein the Sales Department you testified that you A. My job title was Manager of Technical Services And as such I reported to Miles Wilson the President in charge of Sales 19 lo, ! Were you involved in the sale of products 20 iA, Not directly I - one of my responsibilities 21 (8S to answer questions by customers for users of our 22 product line relative to the technical applications 23 connotations of the products 24 '@, And in 1968 when there came the change over 25 to Keene did your position change or job 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 aKAIDER PALIECA AtEm tae, responsibilities PHONES _ John McAlliste Sl oe 177 you were with Baldwin take over by Keene and when Keene ; 10 11 12 13 14 form MS KAHN Objection to MR CLANCY What's the objection MS KAHN T not sure what you mean by take over or whatever Well the transition stock purchase acquisition KAHN Let's say stock 15 CLANCY I don't want to 16 characterize for old times sakes this 17 relationship I'm just -- 18 MS KAHN If you said stock purchase 19 would = 20 21 22 23 24 BY MR CLANCY '@, When you Were an employee of Baldwin Hill wes as compared to there any change when you were an in the product employee lines did of Keene' they Sell the same products 25 A There were 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 I believe one or COHEN ASSOCIATES two new product PHONES PHONES | John McAllister Lines added I don't remember which ones 2 But ---- --w--ere delted A. deleted Keene I think prior to it's unlikely that any were my having been discharged by 178 3 ! MR BERRY Leading Objection MR CLANCY I'm in cross examination I don't regard it as Leading We @ a Third Party BY MR CLANCY BERRY ory My objection is LL @, Sell What products that were sold by did Keene continue to Baldwin A. So far as my recollection serves 19 | the entire product line of | Baldwin 20 was sold to all customers by Keene 21 ee Oe 22 Your position as Sassistant to the 23 Technical Supervisor and as Technical Supervisor for 24 I sing BEH as Raldwin what Was 25 , 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19108 KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 12151028.0300 12151028.01213 510208.00300 A. @. Aa, A IQ, A John McAllister I don't know -- Was it more than ~- positivel Was more than MRT FOW Oh yes there were more than two 179 Q 10 A. And BEH had brochures Yes 11 Q. And did BEH send these brochures out to 12 potential customers A Yes 74 Q. And those potential customers included the 15 Government 76 A I Ssume SO 17 Q. Is it fair to say that BEH actively 18 attempted to sell its producttso consumers 19 A. If they did not they were living in a 20 dream world 21 Q. Thank you of 22 Now when you became an employee 23 Keene after 1968 did Keene also have a similar 24 sales staff 25 A. Yes 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES (215)928-9300 (215)928-9300 John McAllister OR ek 180 sales Q. Was it larger than BEH's staff A Yes Q. And they also aggressively tried to get a share of the insulation market 5 A. Yes Q@, And that share of the insulation market would include the United States Government vA. I believe so a, You testified that in 1964 you became the 10 company's BEH Company rep to NIMA 71 \A. Yes 12 Q. And you were associated with the Technical iand Research Committee and Government Liaison Committe on 74 an Ad Hoc basis 15 A. | 76 iQ, Yes Was one of the functions of NIMA to Serv las 17 8 Liaison between the industry and potential customers 18 as far as educating the consumer about the 19 industry's products 20 A I think so They periodically published 21 articles as an organization which were educational in 22 nature 23 24 manufactured by NIMA members 25 A. ae rific generic typestypes don But But , 400 MARKET STREET 10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928-9300 | John McAllister 195 Q@. With respect to the use of the term potential do you merely use that term in relation to the plant area in which of asbestosis you were working when speaking -- --the ! A health Yes l@. "=" re you merely referring to the specific Work arei -- --the pla 12 Were involved area of which your experiences 13 14 15 16 17 BY | MR MR LEDWITH Objection MS KAHN Object to the form tion THE WITNESS A potential hazard of asbestosis is not geographically timited COSTANTINO . Qa. Are you talking about finished products A. I'm talking about airborne asbestos It 21 knows no boundaries If it is in fact airborne 22 asbestos the potential hazard for asbestosis is 23 wherever it is 24 25 errr Cet 2 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES COHEN ASSOCIATES PHONES 215 928.9300 928.9300 | John McAllister ee - u 198 Inspector Wore a respirator A. I don't remember Q. Would you tell us if he ever advised the Government Inspector to Wear a respirator A. I don't remember Q Did you Wear a espirator at the time A Yes . 'e. When you Speak of the major users of your products Let's encompass the time | period from 1950 to approximately 1970 11 ap roximately and all products that you were 12 involved with When you speak of major user was the 13 Government a major user a product 14 A q I have no kno ledge of breakdown of total shipments to customers by user category or classification 16 Q. Do you hav any knowledge of the sales of the 17 Keene Corporation Corporation at that time between 1966 and 1970 18 | MS KAHN I object to the form 19 MR COSTANTINO What's the er 20 With the form 21 | 22 23 THE WITNESS Keene was not in the . insulation business as far S I know in 24 BY MR COSTANTINO 25 Q. Between | 400 MARKET STREET 10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 1960 and 1966 do you KNIPES ASSOCIATES have any knowledge PHONES 12151028 0300 , John McAllister 199 of the sales of insulation products A. A. period By whom By let's of time see you Were with BEH for that A Forge three Baldwin I know Plant capacity was And that and a quarter billion dollars what the Valley was approximately List 7 value of calcium silicate I have no knowledge of what the mineral wool Cement acoustical tiles acoustical board sales were Q. Out of that three and a quarter did you say million or billion A. Million Was sold to the United States Government " MR CLANCY Objection { THE WITNESS I indicated earlier | i I have no knowledge the breakdown of | 19 shipments by user interest 20 BY MR COSTANTINO ' 21 Q. Do you that 22 three an know if they were a major buyer out of quarter million 23 | MR CLANCY Objection 24 | 25 | e@uyurs: THE WITNESS Was who a major 10TH 1 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KNIPES ASSOCIATES PHONES 17151078 9300 John McAllister BY MR COSTANTINO 201 to the -- to the Navy at Annapolis and did you | them aware of the chemical content of the that | you supplied A Specifically n i | | was submitting samples to Qualify to specific specific Government specifications on a characteristics basis not a chemical ae Q., products So the chemical content then of the that you were selling to the Navy in particular was the same as the chemical content of your products being sold for commercial use t ia. Yes TE 77 18 19 N @, ! And would you =" withdraw that ' | I to the Navy did from the products Did they you these products that you sold differ physically external wise were selling commercially CC LANCL Y CLANCY AN ray C acionY. THE WITNESS Not to the best of my ~ knowledge 23 BY MR COSTANTINO 24 @. They Looked the same as the products you Were 25 selling commercially would that be acc 400 MARKET STREET 10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 1910~ k HOIDES.CONSO HOIDES.CONSO acc... _ PHONES A. ; They came from production that was made for 2 commercial consumption ~ 3 Q. You ran these commercial - these products that you were selling to the Navy you ran them off the same all manufacturing process and assembly line and A Q. Hall That's what And you ran it's them all out about of the same molds and A a. | 12 es Certainly Okay basically 13 | basically tA, no difference in in the products that yo 14 sold to the Navy than the ones you were selling 75 commercially 76 | 17 |19 |20 21 | 22 23 24 MS KAHN I obitt obitt I think this is repetitious witness expressed the Limits of his knowledge in this area a number of times MR THE WITNESS Normal Lot variations at occur in any commercial production of insulation as well as occurred with the those supplied to Navy samples commerce COSTANTINO 25 . | SOu>st norm VST Ta CT ons TTS curred | 400 MARKET STREET FLOOR | PHILADELPHIA PA 19108 k Kilbst.co Kilbst.co acca... PHONES