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Specializing in Daily Copy Delivery IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF PINELLAS STATE OF FLORIDA MARY BENNETT as Personal ) Representative of the Estate of RAYMOND BENNETT, ) ) Deceased, ) Plaintiff, ) ) vs . ) ) ) NATIONAL GYPSUM COMPANY, ) a foreign corporation; ) UNITED STATES GYPSUM COMF ANY, ) a foreign corporation; ) GEORGIA PACIFIC CORPORATION, ) a foreign corporation, ) ) Defendants. ) CIRCUIT CIVIL NO. 82-5351-20 S** MrtlndlfrHubbll LawOiraclory 1 >olype) Conference rooms available at no charge jL W J 'OMPLETE REPORTING SERVICE VIDEOTAPE DEPOSIT!'"' ` Deposition of OLIVER EUGENE BURCHe taken on behalf of the Plaintiff, before Betty j. Catlett, Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public, at 133 Peachtree Street, Suite 1100, Atlanta, Georgia, commencing at approxirnate1v 3:00 p.m., Monday, December 5, 1983 . -BULL & ASSOCIATESCourt and Deposition Reporters 4651 Roswell Road. N E. Suite F504 Atlanta. Georgia 30342 (404) 256-2886 t DUPLICATE FILE COPY m i I 4. APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: For the Plaintiff: ROBERT J. CARROLL, Esq. Suite 620 U.S. Home Building 1 Countryside Park Clearwater, Florida 33515-2086 For the Defendants: J. MICHAEL NIFONG, Esq. Miami Center 100 Chopin Plaza Miami, Florida 33131 Also Present: Phillip McClendon, Esq. Nancy McElwaney, Legal Assistant 10 OLIVER EUGENE BURCH, 11 having been first duly sworn, was examined and 12 deposed as follows: 13 EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. ROBERT J. CARROLL: 15 Q. Mr. Burch, state your full name. 16 A. Oliver Eugene Burch. 17 0- Where are you employed? 18 A. Georgia Pacific, Atlanta, Georgia. 19 f). How long have you been employed with or 20 by Georgia Pacific? 21 A. Since 1965. 22 Q. Whatisyourpresentposition? 23 A. General Sales Manager, Gypsum Division, 24 p. How long have you had that position? . 25 A. Since 1969. COUtT AMO MPOimON cporrt | i j i j : ' , i ( j ij I i 3 Q. What position did you have immediately prior to that? A. Director of Technical Services. Q. Can you tell me what that means? A. I had responsibility for building code work, putting together the technical information needed by the sales people in the field, working with building code officials and et cetera. Q. Was that also concerning the Gypsum products? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. How long did you have that position? 13 A. From 1966 until 196 9 . 14 Q. What position did you have prior to that? 15 A. Area Sales Manager. 16 Q. What was your area? 17 A. San Francisco, California area. 18 Q. And when did you have that position? 19 A. From the time Georgia Pacific, 1965 - 20 1966, I'm sorry. 21 Q. I'm not sure I'm square on that. You 22 started with them in '65? 23 A. As a salesman. 24 Q. Then very quickly you became the Area 25 Sales Manager? IIIW! u(Dai 8 itepaietetoi!' COURT AMO 0 POSITION IMPOST!** 4 1 A. That's right. 2 Q. After approximately a year or so, you 3 became a Director of Technical Services? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. So I believe we've covered the titles of 6 all the positions you've held with Georgia Pacific? 7 A. That's correct. 8 q. What is your educational background, sir? 9 A. I attended San Jose State College, but did 10 not graduate. 11 Q. What was your field or - 12 A. Engineering and Business Administration. 13 MR. J. MICHAEL NIFONG: Let me make 14 one statement on behalf of Georgia 15 Pacific Corporation. We have two amended 16 notices for taking deposition. As I 17 enumerated in my letter to Mr. Carroll, 18 of November 17th, you asked that we 19 designate two people but due to the time 20 constraints, we agreed to make one person 21 available from 3:00 o'clock until 6:00 22 o'clock. We must conclude by 6:00 o'clock 23 because of other plans of the people 24 involved in the deposition. 25 As I told your office -- is Joan nuTOISEM & MM ittSBUKR COOUTAMO O (fPAOORSTITIIAOSM I 5 your secretary? MR. CARROLL: Yes. MR. NIFONG: She's very good. One person would testify as to distribution and sales patterns and as to brand names and perhaps the manufacturing period. That is this particular gentleman. ' As to the chemical analysis or the research information or the decisions to 11 discontinue, that would be another 12 individual who will have to be produced 13 at some later time that is mutually ' 14 convenient or otherwise. i I j 15 MR. CARROLL: That was our 1 16 understanding. ! i 17 By the way, I want to thank you for j 18 noting on the record that Joan is very 19 good. She's probably going to be reading 20 the deposition and immediately ask for a ' 21 raise. ; 22 0. (By Mr. Carroll.) The best thing to do, ! 1 23 Mr. Burch, is to go to the first item on the notice 24 to take deposition and read it in its entirety so that! 25 it will be in the record and we'll know what we're IIHI!suM COUATAMO Of POSITION At AQATfAS ( 6 talking about. Item No. 1 is the brand names, manufacturinc periods, distribution and sales patterns of spackling and taping compounds manufactured by defendant, Georgia Pacific Corporation, during the 20-year period immediately prior to May 7, 1980. You've heard counsel indicate that you are the man on behalf of Georgia Pacific who can answer questions in this area. I understand - MR. NIFONG: At this time. Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I understand that you don't have every answer to every question that someone could think of, but presumably you have some knowledge 14 personally and you've done some additional effort or 15 work in the immediate past or distant past that lets 16 you have that information for us. Is that a fair 17 statement? 18 A. I have some knowledge personally, yes. 19 0- Have you done any particular research in 20 order to specifically provide information for us today 21 at this deposition? 22 A Specific research, what do you mean by 23 that ? 24 Qi In order to give us that information, brand 25 names, manufacturing periods, et cetera, to cover the IIVI!an(Ml 3 | mm wAsssuexesJ.fifo.COURT AND Ot POSITION RCRORTCRS 20-year period beginning immediately prior to May 7th, 1980? A. I think I would have specific knowledge of brand names to give you. Q. Okay. MR. NIFONG: As I also told your office and as I stated in my letter of November 17th -- I'm not certain of that date, but I believe it was November 17th -- that the person would go back to a 11 reasonable period of time. This person, 12 as it relates to Georgia Pacific Corporation, 13 can give you information from 1965 to 1980 14 on your question, perhaps. Sometime around 15 April, May, June of 1965. * j ( i 16 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Okay. Let's start with i | 17 some brand names, to begin with so we'll have products 18 that we can talk about. j j 19 What brand names are you aware of during ! 20 the period of time that you have been with the ; 21 company or from your knowledge of when you arrived ! 22 what was in existence, that would fit the pattern or j 23 thedescription of spacklingand taping compounds? 24 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form ' i J 25 of the question, llmll uBbCB S Etemtetisi- COURT AMO Oft POSITION RIPORTIRt I I ( 8 Answer it if you're able to. Go ahead and you can answer unless I instruct you not to. A. (By the witness.) What nay I ask is your definition of spackling compound? (By Mr. Carroll.) We're interested in products used at the completion or near the completion of a dry wall project. The compounds that would be used to prepare the joints, to fill any imperfections and to provide a final finished surface if something had to be added to the dry wall. Is that a clear enough explanation? A. Yes. Q. What are the products that you are aware of that Georgia Pacific manufactured, by brand name, during that 20-year period? A. It would be Georgia Pacific - MR. NIFONC: Let me object. You asked for the past 20 years. He's only going to be able to testify from 1965 to 1980 . MR. CARROLL: I appreciate the fact that he's been with them since 1965, but I suspect he had some immediate knowledge at the time of what was already in eOUAT AMO Of POSITION HfPOflTtftf 9 ``existence . flR. NIFONG: I just wanted to note the objection. Go ahead and answer if you can. A. (By the witness.) Repeat the question. Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) What are the brand names of products that fit the general categories that we've been discussing? A. Georgia Pacific or Best Wall Ready Mix Joint System Compound. 11 Q, Can we pause just a minute and be sure 12 that we get that correct. Those were two separate 13 products that you have just described? One was 14 Georgia Pacific and the other was Best Wall or are 15 they all Best Wall with Georgia Pacific as a little 16 name also on the package? 17 A. Same product, but in the earlier period it 18 was called Best Wall Ready Mix and shortly after 1966 19 or '67 became Georgia Pacific. 20 0. So it's Best Wall - 21 A. Ready Mix . 22 Q. And what was the rest of it? 23 A. Joint System Compound. 24 Qi Then at a later time the very same product 25 became known as Georgia Pacific -- AMO 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (1 10 A. Right. 0. Please continue. A. Again, Best Wall orGeorgia Bedding Compound. Pacific 0 What is that word? A. Bedding, B-e-d-d-i-n-g . 0 And again, the change was from Best Wall to subsequently Georgia Pacific? A. Correct. 0 But the product at that timeremained the same ? A. Correct. 0 Please continue. A. Georgia Pacific or Best Wall Topping Compound, T-o-p-p-i-n-g. 0 Okay. A. Georgia Pacific or Best Wall Joint System Products. 0 Please continue. A. Georgia Pacific or Best 'Wall One Day Joint Cement. 0 A. it Please continue. I think that about covers the spectrum of Would it be your recollection that the Ml 6 COtiflT AMO MKIITtOlt ftCAonrciri I ( 11 change over from Best Wall to Georgia Pacific, for all of these products, occurred at one pretty confined period of time ? A. Yes . Q. Do you remember when that occurred? A. I don't remember the exact date. 7 Q. Do you remember the year or the 8 approximate year? 9 A. It would be approximately 1967. 10 Q. So to the best of your knowledge, at this 11 particular time, with the information available to 12 you, the products that you have named would be the 13 only ones that have been manufactured by Georgia 14 Pacific in the time period in which you have 15 knowledge that would be considered to be a dry wall 16 finishing product for the joints or for the surface? 17 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 18 of the question. Answer it if you can. 19 A. {By the witness. ) To the best of my 20 knowledge that would be correct. 21 Qi (By Mr. Carroll.) When you arrived in 22 1965 with the company, was Best Kail already a brand 23 that was being utilized by Georgia Pacific? 24 A. Yes. 25 Ql At the time of your arrival, did you learn inVianMS H aemeu COUflT AMO MAOSmOM I 12 I how long Best Wall had been a product name for 2 Georgia Pacific? 3 A. Yes . 4 Q. How long had that been? 5 A. For Georgia Pacific since 196 5 . 6 Q. I see. So it was not a product name very 7 much prior to your arriving? 8 A. For Georgia Pacific? 9 Q. Yes, sir. 10 A. For Georgia Pacific, it was a product name 11 since 1965. 12 Q. I'm assuming that perhaps another company 13 manufactured Best Wall prior to that date? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Who was that? 16 A. Best Wall Gypsum Corporation. 17 Q. Seems only fair. ' 18 Do you know how it came to be that 19 particular product became a Georgia Pacific product? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Can you tell us about that, please? 22 A. Yes. Georgia Pacific acquired the Best 23 Wall Gypsum Corporation in 1965. It was a merger. It 24 wasn't an acquisition. 25 Q, Where was Best Wall Gypsum Corporation IIWI! iiBad S COUNT AMO DC POSITION SIPQITIM 2 3 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 22 23 24 25 0> >p located ? 13 A- Paoli, Pennsylvania. Cl Did you have anything to do with Best Wall Gypsum Corporation? A. Yes, I did. What was your involvement with that corporation? A. I was a territory salesman for Best Wall Gypsum Corporation. & Was that out in California? A. Yes . & How long had you been with Best Wall at the time you went over to Georgia Pacific? * Since 1956. Q. Are you able to tell us how long a period of time. prior to 1965, Best Wall was producing the products you enumerated for us? * Yes, I am. ft Can you tell me about that? A. Since 1956. Kith one exception. Ready Mix products were not produced since 1956 & They came on sometime in between '56 and '65? K That's correct. - & And that would have been the very first (Mi a U CoOfRUoRTtmAoMMO mnitim 14 product that you mentioned? '* A. That's correct. & I understand that you're not the person to give us the technical information requested in Item No. 2, 3 or 4, but in order to direct my questioning a little bit, you might have a little information that might be some help in differentiating these products. What was the purpose of each of these products? What were they intended to be used for? MR. NIFONG: I object to the question. You can answer it to the extent that you understand it. Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) For example, let's take them one at a time. What was, to your knowledge, the 15 purpose and the use that Best Wall Ready Mix Joint 16 System Compound was to be put? 17 A. To treat the joints of Gypsum Wallboard, 18 to provide a monolithic surface for later decoration. 19 Qi Was that designed to go right on the wall20 board or was it designed to go on a taping substance 21 first? Was it to be a taping process first then the - 22 A. That's correct. 23 &. So there would be the wallboard, then the 24 taping and then the Best Wall Ready Mix Joint System 25 Compound ? IIIW! u(ME 8 MCOMUNtTmAONND NKPO*Tf i ( 15 A. The Best Wall Ready Mix Joint System Compound could be used on tape products and often was It also could be used in finishing over the taping to provide the monolithic surface and often is. Q. One use would be if you had a very irregular joint between two boards, you might use the Best Wall Ready Mix Jo intSy^em Compound to first -- well, smooth out to some extent the joint, then put the taoe on? MR. NIFONG: Read that back. 11 (Thereupon, the designated portion 12 was read back by the court reporter.) 13 o. (By Mr. Carroll.) I was trying to get 14 ahead and I thought that was what you were trying to 15 say . 16 A. No. The embedding of the Ready Mix 17 Compound is done simultaneously. The material goes 18 under the tape against the wallboard and the tape is 19 applied as you work in the material, down the joint 20 or across the joint, as the circumstance may be. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. It is used to adhere the tape to the joint, 23 to the wallboard. 24 Q. Then as needed, it is used on top of the 25 tape ? IIIV!fciim a 0@pCOURT AMO Df KimON RIRORTSRt i 1 A. That's correct. 16 2 Qi Let's go to the next product. Best Wall 3 Bedding Compound. I'll ask you the same question. 4 What was the purpose or intended use of this product? 5 A. That material's intended use was to imbed 6 the tape to do just the function of bedding the tape. 7 It is the adhesive of the tape to the Gypsum Wallboard 6 only, no top surface. 9 Q. Next one mentioned was Best Wall Topping 10 Compound. What was the purpose or intended use of 11 that product? 12 MR. NIFONG: On all your purposes 13 and intended use questions, that's as it 14 relates to wallboards, correct, or as it 15 relates to spackling compounds or joint 16 compounds? You don't want the purpose of 17 why the product was manufactured in the 18 first place? 19 MR. CARROLL: I don't care about 20 their civic mindedness. 21 MR. NIFONG: I think they had plenty 22 of that. 23 0. (By Mr. Carroll.) I'm only interested in 24 what the intended use of the product was by the 25 purchaser, what you hoped the purchaser would do with AMO 17 the product. A. All right. Q. Now we were down to Best Wall Topping Compound. ______ A. Best Wall Topping Conpoun^Hs used in the next step, after the material was bedded. It was a specific product designed to finish off the -- either the joint or the surface of the Gypsum Wallboard. Q. The next product was Best Wall Joint System Product. Is that singular product or -- I have an S here or if you meant there was more than one? A. There are, but they fall into the category we term as Joint System Product. Q. Can you break it down for me, perhaps? 15 A. They were generally products used, 16 packaged differently, but were an all purpose product. 17 It was used for taping, bedding, and the finishing. 18 Ql And the next one, I believe the last one, 19 you initially mentioned was Best Wall One Day Joint 20 Cement. What was the intended purpose of that? 21 A. That v/as a quick setting product, used 22 primarily to bed the tape. Joint System products have 23 to dry for an extended period of time. This was a 24 product specifically developed to cut down on that 25 drying time, but used in the bedding of tape. IIUmu[Mi & MM BU3SQK& COUNT AMO oc position NCNONTINN I 18 G. Earlier you said that the products were all in existence at the time you started with Georgia Pacific Corporation in 1965, with the exception of Best Wall Ready Mix Joint System Compound. Do you know when each of the other products actually began their life as a product, commercial product? A. Not specific dates, no. ql Do you know when any of these products - I'm including even the Ready Mix Joint System Compound, when they, if they have, terminated their 11 existence as a product? 12 A. All of those products we've produced today. 13 There's one product that just comes to my 14 mind that should be on that list. That's Triple Duty 15 Joint Compound. 16 G Is that Best Wall Triple Duty or just 17 Triple Duty? 18 A. To the best of my knowledge, that would 19 be Georgia Pacific Triple Duty Joint Compound. 20 Q. Do you know when that came into existence? 21 A. I believe sometime after 1965. 22 Q. Is that still being produced? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Is the full title, Georgia Pacific Triple 25 Duty Compound? INtStll[MI count AMO OC POSITION MMRTIN 19 A. Joint Compound. MR. NIFONG: Georgia Pacific Triple Duty Joint Compound? Is that what it is? THE WITNESS: Yes. Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I think you're indicating that it was never a Best Wall product? 7 A. I'm not positive about that. I think it 8 was introduced after Georgia Pacific acquired Best 9 Wall. 10 0 What was the purpose or intended use of 11 Georgia Pacific Triple Duty Joint Compound? 12 A. The same as the others. It was an all 13 purpose product used to embed the tape and finish the 14 joints and also finish the surface of the wallboards. 15 Q. I'm trying to think of a way to identify 16 these products in a shorter fashion, but I guess I'll 17 have to say the name each time. 18 Let me ask you a question concerning them 19 generally. Maybe that will avoid the necessity to 20 ask as many questions about them specifically. 21 When these products came on the market, 22 when they began to be produced or when you were first 23 aware of them being produced and sold in the market 24 place, were they sold nationwide? 25 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form (M3 COOCOPfOlTtmAMOOM ftCPOATIAt 20 of the question. Answer it if you can. '* A (By the witness.) When they came on the market? Would you repeat it for me? Qi (By Mr. Carroll.) Let's go with 1965 , the date that you started with Georgia Pacific. To your knowledge, in 1965, were these products marketed and distributed nationwide? MR. NIFONG: Note my objection to the form of the question and answer it if you're able to, Mr. Burch. 11 A. (By the witness.) There would be parts of 12 the nation where they were not distributed. 13 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Let me ask you then 14 specifically about the State of Florida. I'll ask you 15 if you have knowledge of whether or not these 16 products were distributed and marketed in Florida in 17 1965? 18 A In 1965, I'm not certain. 19 Q, How can we find that out? 20 A. I'm not certain that we can find out for 21 sure if they were distributed in 1965 in the State of 22 Florida. 23 Q. Did - 24 A. You're referring to them as a group, a 25 whole now. We know for instance that -- I believe it INWI ftim s Ihsm&'s&s cou MM ACM AMO  ' V ( ! 2211 1 would be safe to say that in 1965 they were distributee 2 in the State of Georgia, yes. 3 Q. Now I don't know that there would be 4 something unique about the Tampa Bay area which would 5 mean they would not be distributed there? Would that 6 be a fair statement? 7 A. That's correct. 8 ft Were these products -- I'm taking them 9 initially as a group in hopes that maybe these 1 questions will not require us to go through each one / 11 12 of them. Were they distributed as materials to be used in construction industry as opposed to products 13 that were primarily intended and packaged for the 14 handyman or homeowner to use? For example, the very 15 small containers you see in some of the hardware 16 stores now. 17 MR. NIFONG: Let me caution the 18 witness that to the extent you need these 19 products broken down product by product. 20 please ask Mr. Carroll to do so because 21 you can't paint this question with broad 22 brushes as to all these products. 23 A. (By the witness.) Would you please repeat 24 the question now, please? 25 Qa. (By Mr. Carroll.) I'm just trying to take eyis S S 5S taM? VVillHI COOAT AND BU MPosmoai WU mwithi I it as a total group for tKe tine being. 22 If you tell ne that we can't do that, we'll move into individual products. But my question is whether all of these products, to your knowledge, were initially and then continuously from that point onward, marketed for the construction industry instead of primarily for the homeowner's use or handyman's use in very small containers such as you might see in the hardware store 3 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 11 of the question. Answer if you can, -- 12 Mr. Burch. If you need the products 13 broken down, ask that they be broken 14 down. 15 A. (By the witness.) The product' was 16 intended for use for both classes of trade. 17 & (By Mr. Carroll.) Well, was there a 18 specific product or products among this group that 19 was primarily intended for the individual homeowner, 20 the small handyman that does one job a year or 21 something like that? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Did the products, did they come in 24 different size packages to accommodate the market? 25 A. Yes. INlnIiaHMD 3 m m /l&ia8s8gl!a)OQ<?. COUNT AMO ocpoimott ftlNONTINN 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (( 23 MR. NIFONG: All the products, you're talking about? Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) At this point in time. I am. If you need to make a distinction, please tell me . A Again, referring to individual products, the One Day Joint Cement would not have come in but one size container. CL What was the only size container that the One Day Joint Cement came in? A Twenty-five pound. Now would you read back the list for me so that I can be sure I haven't misled you ? Cl I'll read them as Best Wall. A. That's fine. CL Best Wall Ready Mix Joint System Compound, Best Wall Bedding Compound, Best Wall Topping -A Best Wall Bedding Compound would be in one container. 0- What was the size of that? A. Twenty-five pound. Cl Then Best Wall Topping Compound? A One container, 25 pound. & Best Wall Joint System Products, you said A Various containers. [Mi a taDSteJQg meourr ano MMtmON RIMRTIM  1 i' 24 CL Then Georgia Pacific Triple Duty Joint 2 Compound ? 3 A. One container, 25 pounds. 4 Q. Now maybe the best thing to do, as much as 5 possible, is to take these products one at a time. 6 Maybe a little more time consuming, but I can see 7 there are some variations. 8 A. Yes, there are. 9 Q, What was the packaging of Best Wall Ready 10 Mix Joint System Compound? I have reference to 11 whether it came as a dry product or a paste of some 12 sort. How did it come and what kind of container was 13 it in ? 14 A. It came as a ready mix paste, moist, in the 15 container. 16 Q. What was the type of container? 17 A. Initially -- what period of time are you 18 speaking about now? 19 Ql I would like to go back to your earliest 20 recollection of the product and then if it changed, if 21 you would tell me. 22 A. Initially a five-gallon container and then 23 a one-gallon container. 24 Q. Initially a five gallon and now a one 1 25 oallon? MD 8 milflaaseJeCsfeocmr ao MWimON MWrriN 25 1 MR. NIFONG: He said later a one 2 gallon. 3 0- (By Mr. Carroll.) It went from five to 4 one or from five to five and one? 5 A. From a five to a five and a one then to 6 four also. It included a four-gallon container. 7 0 What was the container? What was the 8 actual container? Was it metal or was it a plastic 9 container ? 10 A. Initially the five and one were metal 11 containers. 12 Ql Then later they moved to - 13 A. It came to a plastic container. The 14 four-gallon container, from its inception, was a box. 15 The four-gallon container -- when I make reference to 16 the four gallon and the five-gallon container, they 17 are today designated by pounds. 18 (X Let's move to Eest Wall Bedding Compound 19 and tell me whether that was a dry product or paste 20 product? 21 A. That was a dry product. 22 Q. Was that produced or marketed in a bag 23 type arrangement? 24 A. That was in a bag. Now very recently, 25 within the past couple of years, we have also - not nmo uEMI a testate? COUNT A NO MBtPPOOIRITT1tn0nN 26 bedding -- I'm getting ahead of myself. Scratch that. fit As far as you know, the bedding compound started in a bag and stays in a bag? A Right. Q. By the way, when we were talking about Best Wall Ready Mix Joint System Compound and about the Best Wall Bedding Compound, I also meant to include the period of time when it was known as Georgia Pacific, in each instance. You understand that? 11 A In ready mix, there was no -12 Q. Correct. There was no Best Wall. I think 13 you did tell me that. 14 Okay. Let's move to Best Wall and 15 Georgia Pacific Topping Compound. That was a 16 25-pound container. Was that dry? 17 A That's correct. Although that one, I 18 started to say about two years ago, we began 19 manufacturing a Best Topping Compound also. That's 20 ir. a plastic container. 21 q The dry would have been manufactured and 22 distributed in a bag? 23 A That's correct. 24 ql We come then to Best Wall and Georgia 25 Pacific Joint System Products. I don't believe we COUNT AMO 0 POSITION AINONTKAt 27 discussed the size of the containers yet. Can you tell ne about that? A. They were in a 25- pound bag, a 22-p ound bag and a fi ve-pound bag. ft And was that from the inception of the product or did they add bags and sizes as they went along? MR. NIFONG: Read that back. (Thereupon, the de signated port ion was read back by the cou rt reporter.) 11 MR. NIFONG: To th e extent that 12 you asked from the inception of the 13 product, I object t o the form of the 14 que 5tion. 15 & (By Mr. Carro 11 . ) I want to be elecir. I 16 understand that you're indicating that you were not 17 there when somebody invented these products, but you 18 have indicated the period of your knowledge. I guess 19 it's -- it's a little confusing, but I don't intend 20 for you to say something now that you don't mean to 21 say about your knowledge. But from the time you had 22 your initial awareness, from the Best Wall System 23 Products, were those products always produced in these 24 three size bags? 25 A. Yes, from the time period of time that I've 28 had knowledge of it. Q, Now, we'll go to Best Wall and Georgia Pacific One Day Joint Cement. You indicated that was produced and marketed in 75-pound containers -- no - 25. That's my handwriting. Was that a dry bag? A. Yes. Q, Is that the only container you're aware of? A. Yes. ql Then the last one was Georgia Pacific Triple Duty Joint Compound. Was that a 25-pound dry n bag container? 12 A. Yes. 13 Ql I assume those products that you've 14 identified as being dry, as opposed to wet or pasty 15 type material, they had to be mixed in some fashion 16 where they could be used? 17 A. That's correct. 18 C. And were normally mixed with water, 19 presumably ? 20 MR. NIFOKG: I object to the form 21 of the question. Answer if you can. 22 A (By the witness.) Normally would be water, 23 Ql (By Mr. Carroll.) You expected them to be 24 mixed with water? 25 Yes IIU (Ml & COURT AMO Off POSITION RCPOATtft* ( `I Qi Somebody might have had another pr they mixed it with, but that's what they were supposed to be used with? A. Yes. Q. Were any of these products also intended to be used in some spray type operation to provide a finish on a dry wall surface? A. Primarily intended for that? Could you clarify that for me? Q. I'm not concerned in this question with 11 their primary intent, but were any of these products 12 intended at all by your company to be sprayed in some 13 fashion to produce a texture of some fashion on a dry 14 wall surface? 15 A. No. None of those products. 16 Q Do you know that there are certain products 17 where you can produce a popcorn effect on a ceiling 18 or a little more of an abrasive effect on the wall? 19 Are you aware of the general industry of those sorts 20 of products? ! 21 A I am. 22 Q. Are any of these products in that 23 category ? 24 A. Some of these products have been used for 25 spray-on textures, primarily on the surface, the walls III! (Mi & hh flsaDefeOs? VhiH COURT AMO MMtlTION r of the unit being constructed. 0. Which products are you aware of that have been used in that fashion? Do you want me to go through the list? MR. NIFONG: Fashion per his testimony. 7 MR. CARROLL: Yes. 8 A. (By the witness.) I can tell you. Ready 9 mix has been used in that fashion. The next one, 10 please. 11 0- (By Mr. Carroll.) Bedding compound. 12 A. Never. 13 ft Toppoing compound. 14 A Has been used in that fashion. 15 & Joint System Products. 16 A They have been used in that fashion. 17 0- One Day Joint Cement. 18 A No. 19 & And Triple Duty Joint Compound. 20 A. Has been used in that fashion. 21 a Is that use considered by Georgia Pacific, 22 to your knowledge, to be an improper use of the 23 product ? 24 A No. 25 Q Is it a use that is encouraged by either (ME 8 NHLtasefcjfie? eOOflT ANO DfPoimott i ( 31 advertising or something written on the product itself: MR. NIFONG: Objection to the form of the question. Answer it if you're able to . Do you mean encouraged by Georgia Pacific in some of its advertising? MR. CARROLL: Yes. A. (By the witness.) I'm not aware of any advertising where that particular use is recommended for these particular products. 11 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) When would you say that 12 type of use was first brought to your attention? 13 A. The spray application of Gypsum Wallboard 14 probably started in the early seventies, late sixties. 15 Qi From your knowledge of that sort of 16 operation, where the products were being sprayed on 17 the walls, were the products being added to other 18 products prior to the spraying? Were they simply beinc 19 mixed generally in accordance with your instructions 20 and being sprayed? 21 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 22 of the question. Answer it if you can. 23 A. (By the witness.) It's difficult to say 24 what people in the field do with our products. That's 25 almost impossible. OB 8 COUNTAMO DC POSITION fttPOATinm 32 gi (By Mr. Carroll.) I wonder if you are aware now of what they did when they sprayed it? A. To my personal knowledge, the material was watered considerably prior to the spray application. Qt If we wanted to get to the hard records, perhaps computer records or other sorts of written documents concerning the distribution patterns of these products, to whom would we have to turn to get to those records? x MR. NIFONG: Records just relating 11 to distribution? 12 MR. CARROLL: Distribution, marketing. 13 A. (By the witness.) I believe you'd have to 14 turn to me. 15 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I mean those records 16 MR. NIFONG: Perhaps others. It's 17 a large organization. Do you mean on 18 what specific issue, just distribution 19 or just sales? 20 MR. CARROLL: Distribution, sales, 21 marketing, techniques or strategies, those 22 sorts of things which presumably, if you're 23 the General Sales Manager, would certainly 24 come within your jurisdiction. But is 25 there someone at a level below you that is COURT AMO D POSITION RIMRTIM I more intimately so involved with collecting that information and preserving it? MR. NIFONG: I object to the form' of the question. Answer it if you can. A. (By the witness.) I'm a little unclear. Could you repeat it for me? Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Is there someone within your organization, and perhaps below you in the organizational chart, who is in charge of maintaining the records of sales patterns; for example, over the 11 last 15 or 20 years of these products? 12 A. No. 13 Ql Is there someone who is in charge of 14 maintaining copies of the advertising materials that 15 have been used concerning these products over the last 16 15 or 20 years? 17 A. There would be somebody who would have 18 access to the advertising copies. 19 MR. NIFONG: For 15 or 20 years? 20 THE WITNESS: Not for 15 or 20 years. 21 MR. NIFONG: You have to listen to 22 the question real carefully. 23 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) How far back would you 24 estimate that person would have access to those types 25 of materials? INI Safli a eounr Amo DC POSITION 34 A. I'm not certain how far back. 0. Who would the person be? A. Allen Thielman, our Director of Advertising. MR. NIFONG: If you want, if you're thinking ahead to records custodian or a deposition of that nature, check with me because I am not certain that he's the records custodian for the Advertising Division. I wouldn't 11 want us to be stuck with that. 12 Cl (By Mr. Carroll.) How long has Allen 13 Thielman been the Director of Advertising, to your 14 knowledge ? 15 A I'm not certain. 16 Q. Has he been the Director of Advertising 17 at least as long as you've been the General Sales 18 Manager ? 19 A No. 20 Qi Do you know who his predecessor was? 21 A I don't remember hisimmediatepredecessor. 22 Q. Who was your immediatepredecessor in the 23 position of General Sales Manager? 24 A It was a created position at that time. 25 o. That's a nice situation. You can't be IMS fiaaixsiaCsg COURT AMO DMC MPOfSlIrTiIMON ( 35 1 judged against anything else. (J Are you aware of any changes which occurred 3 in the advertising of these products, the products 4 we've been discussing, to include the statement that 5 the products did not contain asbestos? 6 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 7 of the question. Answer it if you are 8 able . 9 1 / 11 12 A. (By the witness.) Would you repeat the question, please? & (By Mr. Carroll.) Are you aware of any occasions when the advertising on these particular : 13 products was changed to include references to the 14 fact that the products did not contain asbestos? 15 A I am. 16 0. Do you know approximately when that 17 occurred? 18 MR. NIFONG: As to each product or 19 in bulk? 2 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I would like to take it 21 in bulk, if in bulk it can be answered. If it's 22 different for each product, I would move to that level. 23 If you have an answer for all of them, that's fine. 24 A I'm not -- no, I wouldn't be able to i 25 pinpoint the exact or close date of each product, when isfflg 3 J jpj flggseteiteg 36 1 the advertising included that it was asbestos free. 2 MR. NIFONG: Did you get that it 3 was asbestos free? 4 THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, sir. 5 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Do you know for any of 6 the products, when the advertising was changed to 7 indicate the product was asbestos free? 8 A. I don't know any of the exact date for any 9 of the products, when it indicated asbestos free. 10 Do you know -- and I appreciate the fact 11 that your expertise is in sales as opposed to the 12 more technical questions -- do you know whether there 13 was a time when the products contained asbestos? I'm 14 referring to all of them, to begin with, that we've 15 been referring to. 16 MR. NIFONG: You mean all of the 17 products that you've been through, if they 18 contained asbestos? 19 -MR. CARROLL: Yes. 20 MR. NIFONG: Do you know? 21 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) To your knowledge. 22 A. Yes. All contained asbestos. 23 Cl Would it be a fair statement that the fact 24 that they contained asbestos was known to you as early 25 as 1965? IIIK!ill(Dai & fts8ej0ss COUNT AMO M POSITION AtPOATCftfl 37 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form of the question. Answer it if you're able to. 4 A. (By the witness.) No. It wouldn't be a 5 fair question. 6 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) When did you have, to 7 your recollection, an awareness that the products all 8 contained asbestos? 9 MR. NIFONG: I think on that issue, , 10 you're going to have to break it down for 11 him because you've got seven or eight 12 products there and I'm going to ask that 13 you break it down on that question. 14 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I want to say that as 15 I've said many tines before, I am trying to short 16 circuit some of the questions by asking a group 17 question because the titles are very lengthy and there 18 are six or seven of them. I don't mean to imply that 19 you have to give me an answer if you can't, because 20 it doesn't apply to all of them. 21 Do you have a specific recollection of the 22 product that was first brought to your attention as 23 containing asbestos, from among this group? 24 A. No specific product. No specific 25 recollection of when that was. CoMOofUroOMiUTmTAofMANOt I 38 Q The first one that came to your attention? A. That's right. Oi Can you give me a date by which you definitely had knowledge of these products that we have been discussing, contained asbestos? MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 7 of the question. 8 THE WITNESS: Can I answer it? 9 MR. NIFONG: Yes. 10 MR. CARROLL: He's going to kick 11 you when you can't answer it. 12 MR. NIFONG: I'll tell you not to 13 answer it, you can be sure. 14 A. (By the witness.) I was certain that I 15 was aware of those products containing asbestos by 16 1975, '74 perhaps. 17 Ql (By Mr. Carroll.) Were you ever involved 18 in any of the discussions and considerations within 19 Georgia Pacific concerning the fact that the products 20 were determined to contain asbestos? 21 A. Ye s , I am. 22 Qi Do you remember what the occasions were of 23 those early discussions? I have reference to the fact 24 that perhaps some bulletin came out from someone or 25 perhaps an article in the newspaper or perhaps you IIUmil(MlD fi flS8dia08? eOOKTAMO DCHOttTlOM CPOATIRt 3J 93 < . 1 were watching television one day. There might have 2 been a specific occasion that you can link to that 3 initial involvement and the discussion or consideratioi 4 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 5 of the question -- or perhaps anything 6 on earth, if you can follow that question 7 and pick up a specific occasion, please 8 *9 10 do so. A. (By the witness.) I'm sorry. I couldn't pick out a specific occasion. ' 11 12 13 14 Ql (By Mr. Carroll.) Were those discussions and considerations within your company concerning the asbestos content of these products, were those formal discussions and considerations, to the extent that 15 records were made of them? 16 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 17 of the question. You may answer it to 18 the extent that you're able to. 19 A. (By the witness.) To the discussions or 20 meetings that may have occurred where I was in 21 attendance, they were informal, no record. 22 , (By Mr. Carroll.) With whom would you have 23 met and had these sorts of discussions? I don't care 24 for everybody's name, but the type of people or i 25 category of people. ss [DaUS VvMMI COUMT AMO UU NWMimTOdN r 40 A. Our manufacturing and our technical people. Q. Were some of these meetings, meetings that produced reports? MR. NIFONG: Object to the form of the question. A. (By the witness.) I can't recall any specific meetings that would be so formal as to produce reports. . (By Mr. Carroll.) Were any of the meetings occasions when reports were submitted and considered 11 or reviewed? 12 A. Are you referring to internal reports? 13 Q. Yes, any sort. Maybe a consultant's 14 report, internal reports, anything of that sort. 15 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form ! 16 of the question. Answer it if you're able 17 to, Mr. Burch. 18 A (By the witness.) Any meeting that I can 19 recall where I was in attendance, there were no 20 formal reports presented or given. 21 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Approximately how many 22 such meetings can you recall being in attendance at? 23 MR. NIFONG: What period of time were 24 you startinq at? 25 MR. CARROLL: Whenever he first I (' 41 1 remembers having such meetings. I don't 2 care to take it beyond 1980. 3 MR. NIFONG: So your question is 4 from the first occasion up until May 7, 5 198 0 ? 6 A. (By the witness.) There wouldhave been 7 a number of meetings, but I have no way of knowing. 8 Ql (By Mr. Carroll.) Would it have been more 9 than ten meetings? 10 A. Yes, I think so. 11 Q. Do you remember the names of any of the 12 people that attended any of those meetings? 13 A. Yes. 14 Ql Could you tell me who some of those people 15 are, sir? 16 A. Mr. C. W. Lehnert. 17 Ql What is his title or position? 18 A. He's our Technical and Product Development 19 Manager and that title may not be exact. 20 Q. Okay. So he's still with the company? 21 A. Yes, he is. 22 Ql Please continue. 23 A. Mr. T. W. Richards. 24 Q. What is his present title? 25 A. Gypsum Operations Manager. IIIV!ilacod S flaaseSstof* COUVT AMO MPOimON lAOWTim (' 42 Q. Please continue. A. Mr. J. C. Corkill. Ql What is his position? A. Product Manager. Q. Anyone else? A. And at various times, Mr. G. E. Wilson. Q. His position? A. Division Vice-President. Q. Anyone else? A Legal counsel at times. 11 Q. Can you think of anyone else? 12 A No, I'm sure thfere would have been staff 13 members. 14 & At any of the meetings in which you were 15 involved, was there a decision made to recommend the 16 removal of the asbestos content from the product? 17 A At any of the meetings? 18 Cl Yes. 19 MR. NIFONG: I object to the question 20 to the extent that it would include any 21 meetings where legal counsel was in 22 attendance. I am going to instruct you not 23 to answer, if your answer calls for a meeting 24 wherein a lawyer, either in-house or outside 25 counsel, was present in any capacity whatsoever IIU GteSB 3 eoOcUpHocTmAMoOfc 43 participating in the meeting. So if you can answer the guestion that he's just asked, excluding any meeting where a lawyer attended, in-house or out of house, you may do so. To the extent that your answer might require you to testify about a meeting where a lawyer was present, I'll instruct you not to answer. If you need to think about that a minute before you answer it, please do so. n I want you to be very careful on that issue. 12 A. (By the witness.) I can't answer that. 13 Qi (By Mr. Carroll.) Okay. You can't answer 14 because of his instruction or you don't have a 15 recollection of any such occasion? 16 A. If you wouldn't mind rewording the 17 question for me. Restate the question for me. 18 Q. It may have been confusing. I apologize. 19 I'm interested in whether or not you were 20 ever present in a meeting in which -- or at which - 21 it was eventually decided that it would be 22 recommended that asbestos would be removed from any of 23 these products that we have been discussing. Your 24 counsel has instructed you to just delete any meetings 25 at which an attorney was present. IIUfill(SUDS oCOcUtoRtTmAoMNO AVAORTtRA 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I MR. NIFOKG: I think, if I can interject here, he can answer a yes or no without getting in privilege. If you can say no, you may say no. If it's yes, you can answer yes then he will take it further and we'll get back into the attorney/client privilege where w'e may not need to go that far. A. (By the witness.) Yes. (1 (By Mr. Carroll.) Let me be sure I understand your answer. There was at least one meeting at which the final decision was made to recommend that asbestos be removed from one or more of these products? A. Yes. Ql Do you remember the particular product or products involved? MR. NIFONG: Now, to the extent that the meeting where the recommendation was made, involved the presence of legal counsel or Georgia Pacific in-house or outside counsel, I'm not going to allow you to testify on it. If you can remember a meeting where no legal issues were discussed, where legal COUirr AMO OC POSITION MPORTIAt ( 45 counsel was not present, you may answer the question. If you're uncertain, I'd rather you not answer the question. I'm sure he can certify it and we can get back on it, but we're not going to get into any areas where there were discussions where legal counsel was present. A. (By the witness.) I'm uncertain whether legal counsel was present, so I can't answer that. 11 Ql (By Mr. Carroll.) Let me ask you a 12 question. I was just thinking down the road of any 13 hearings we may have. 14 How are we going to be able to tell at 15 these meetings whether an attorney was present or not? 16 V?hat kind of efforts could all of us make to find that 17 ou t ? 18 A. My best recollection. 19 Q. So you can remember meetings clearly enough 20 to remember some of them when attorneys were present? 21 A. I can remember - 22 MR. NIFONG: Just yes or no. Don't 23 get into the details of the meetings. 24 A. (By the witness.) Yes. 25 Cl (By Mr. Carroll.) And you're going to be Sure COURT AMO ocpocmoN RIMItTIRI I 46 '1 able to differentiate, in your mind, meetings when 4 attorneys were present and the decisions at those meetings as opposed to meetings when attorneys were 4 not present? 5 A. No. I'm not going to be able to. 6 MR. CARROLL: I'd like to suggest -- 7 and I do this very respectfully -- that 8 possibly, unless the attorney made 9 recommendations, if the recommendation 10 is a lay recommendation from the 11 organization, even though they may have 12 heard the attorney or the attorney may 13 have offered advice or listened in, I'm 14 not entirely sure that it does amount to 15 privilege since they have to run their 16 business and make lay decisions all the 17 time. 18 I respectfully suggest that perhaps i j 19 he can't make a distinction anyway in his 20 mind as to when attorneys were present 21 and when they weren't and these were 22 basically lay decisions. That's all I'm 23 asking, management type decisions, not i i 24 the lawyer's decisions where he says, this 25 is what we're going to do with a given m &MM eISSUKRi HU count AMO MKIinOM nil ACAOfirtftt I 47 lawsuit. I would like to be able to go further, since I'm here, and I just ask that you permit -- MR. NIFONG: I think the Supreme Court has defined it for us in the last 18 months, in their last session, as to the attorney/client privilege, I think it's entitled to a very restrictive use in this particular context. Given, if 11 this lawyer did not make the final 12 recommendation, but was a part of the 13 process and if the group called upon him 14 and he was in attendance, I think you've 15 got privileged information there and I 16 have no basis to waive at this time. 17 I'll instruct the man not to answer 18 it. If he's able to differentiate any 19 meetings where there were recommendations 20 made or decisions made about the use of 21 asbestos in Georgia Pacific Corporation 22 products, I will allow him to testify on 23 this issue. To the extent that he cannot 24 differentiate, I am not going to waive the 25 attorney/client privilege. I think he Ntitl ll(Dad) S Hag msmi COURT AMO OffROtfTlOW RKRORTIRft 48 1 already testified he cannot differentiate 2 at this point. 3 Can you think of any specific 4 meetings where counsel was not present? 5 THE WITNESS: No. 6 MR. NIFONG: I am not going to allow 7 him to testify about recommendations in 8 meetings made where counsel was present. 9 I think my interpretation of the 10 privilege is correct on this point. I do 11 see your point. 12 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) The types of decisions 13 I am talking about are not legal decisions. I am 14 after the kind of management decisions that every 15 corporation has to make from time to time, even though 16 that decision may incorporate or may be partially 17 based upon statements made by an attorney or group of 18 attorneys. Those are what I'm referring to as 19 decisions or recommendations made by the group. The 20 group I'm talking about is really the management 21 people who were in attendance from Georgia Pacific 22 Corporation. 23 Do you understand that proposition because 24 then I want to ask you another question. 25 A. Yes. IIUMlGtatil S tm m m&ixs* COUHT AMO DOOtlTIOM MNITIRt 49 1 0 Were there those sort of decisions 2 reached and those sorts of recommendations made at any 3 of the meetings that you recall being at? 4 MR. NIFONG: Read that back. 5 (Thereupon, the designated portion 6 was read back by the court reporter.) 7 MR. NIFONG: Let me object to the 8 question for numerous reasons. If you 9 can understand the question, answer it 10 yes or no. Without getting into the 11 contents, I will allow you to answer that 12 with the caveat that I have numerous 13 objections to the form of the question. 14 A. (By the witness.) Yes. 15 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I guess I have to 16 officially ask you the next question, although, I 17 suspect you're going to be instructed not to answer. 18 What were those decisions or recommendation: 19 at the meetings in which the management people made? 20 MR. NIFONG: I think it's clear that 21 you're getting into the privilege 22 information here and I object to the form 23 of the question and I instruct you to not 24 to answer it. 25 (Thereupon, a short break was held.) IIIn! ilBe 8 MM SXSsZsSsSsJMs? COOPT AMO Ot POSITION MNITIM 50 Q, (By Mr. Carroll.) Did you ever personally formulate any opinions concerning the hazard of having asbestos in any of the products that we've been discussing? MR. NIFONG: I object to the form of the question. Answer it if you can. A. (By the witness.) Did I ever formulate any opinions? X (By Mr. Carroll.) Yes, sir. Did you ever arrive at any opinion concerning the hazards or lack 11 of hazards of having asbestos in any of these 12 products ? 13 MR. NIFONG: To the extent that that 14 is the same question or a different 15 question, note my objection to the form 16 of the question. 17 A. (By the witness.) I'm not certain I 18 understand the question. 19 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Did you ever conduce20 that it was hazardous to users or people in the 21 vicinity of the use of the product, for these products 22 to contain asbestos? 23 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form of 24 the question. 25 A. (By the witness.) I don't think I had the ini EM fi flg.aasieffa? COOAT AMO OCAOtfTtON I facts to make any such-conclusion. Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Do you know whether any one within Georgia Pacific Corporation has ever arrived at a conclusion that there was a hazard to the users or persons in the vicinity of the use of these products because of the asbestos content? MR. NIFONG: I object to the form of the question. Read that-back to me in addition. (Thereupon, the designated portion It was read back by the court reporter.) 12 A. (By the witness.) I don't know of anyone. 13 I wouldn't have any knowledge of that. 14 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Have you been called 15 upon to provide testimony concerning asbestos 16 litigation in any other cases? 17 MR. NIFONG: In any other asbestos 18 cases ? 19 Qi (By Mr. Carroll.) Any other asbestos cases. 20 A No. 21 Q. This is the very first time you have 22 provided information concerning asbestos litigation? 23 A That's correct. 24 G. I'm not limiting that just totaping 25 compounds but as it may pertain to dry wall or lathe AMO I 52 1 or anything of that sort? 2 A. No, I've never given deposition testimony 3 on asbestos. 4 Q. Have you ever prepared any reports o,r 5 memorandums concerning this subject of asbestos as 6 an ingredient in any of the products that we have been 7 discussing? 8 A. I have never prepared a report of any kind 9 concerning asbestos in Joint System Products. 10 Q. Have you ever prepared a memo or letter or 11 summary -- the terminology might be different -- but 12 a document that pertains to the asbestos content of 13 any of the products that we've been discussing? 14 A. That would be outside of my realm of 15 responsibility. 16 0- I'd like to add, I don't mean this to be 17 facetious. I would like to see if you have ever had 18 any contact with asbestos as a concept and concern of 19 yours, other than this deposition? 20 My initial question, as a starting point, 21 have you ever had occasion to correspond with anyone, 22 either internally within the company or outside of the 23 company, concerning asbestos? 24 A. In Joint Cement Compound? 25 ft Yes . IIUYhi(Mi 6 COURT AMO DC POSITION MPOftTtftC 53 1 A. Yes, I have. 2 Q. Using that as a starting point, can you 3 tell me what the general nature of the correspondence 4 or communication would have been? I'm talking about 5 written communication. 6 MR. NIFONG: I object to the form 7 of the question. You're going back to 8 1965 . 9 MR. CARROLL: At any time. He's 10 been with the company since '65, yes. 11 MR. NIFONG: To the extent that you 12 can answer the question, I'll allow you to 13 do so. 14 A (By the witness.) Okay. Would you repeat 15 it again now? 16 ft (By Mr. Carroll.) I think we've established 17 that you have corresponded with people, either 18 internally or externally, concerning asbestos. Is 19 that a fair statement? 20 A. That's a fair statement. 21 ft I'm just wondering v/ho those people were, 22 what the circumstances were? 23 A I've had occasion to correspond as to the 24 timetable for moving the asbestos-free product. I 25 can remember that specifically. I've had other AMO i 54 correspondence with other people in the organization concerning asbestos in Joint Cement Products. 0 How can we get copies of these documents? MR. NIFONG: If you make the proper demand and do a request to produce that we don't object to, then we would review it carefully as counsel for Georgia Pacific - MR. CARROLL: You don't need to say any more. That was a poorly phrased 11 question. 12 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I was going to finish 13 my question when he started his objection. How do we 14 go about finding, within your organization, those 15 particular documents? If I wanted to check with a 16 particular person or go to a particular person, where 17 would I go to try to find those documents? 18 MR. NIFONG: You mean such as a 19 records custodian? 20 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) A records custodian, a 21 computer, a bin, a receptacle some place, a file. 22 A Within the realm of Georgia Pacific's 23 corporate retention policy, I would have copies of 24 those correspondence. 25 Q. So if I were to just designate COUMT AMO OCPOtmOM 55 communications generated by you, that dealt with asbestos, you could go through your records and produce those documents? MR. NIFONG: To the extent that we didn't have an objection to those and to the extent that it still exists. i A. (Ey the witness.) That's correct. S Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) I appreciate that. 9 Has there been any change in the sales or 10 sales patterns of any of these products as a result of n the process by which your company went from products 12 containing asbestos to asbestos-free products? 13 A. Would you define what you mean by sales 14 patterns ? 15 0. I'm really talking about something that 16 would not be explained by merely a seasonal variation 17 or the fact that a product is getting a little old on 18 the market. I'm talking about something more 19 dramatic, a vast increase in sales or dramatic drop 20 in sales, in either a particular location or 21 throughout the country, that happened to coincide 22 with your marketing asbestos-free products in these 23 areas, concerning these products? 24 MR. NIFONG: What is the question? 25 g. (By Mr. Carroll.) I am wondering whether IHuInisceoc a SB UiiSSOKSO. COUNT AMO Of POSITION (PORTIA* t 56 or not there was a -- I'll use the term dramatic or large variation -- in the sales of any of these products, either up or down, that coincided with the marketing of the asbestos-free product? MR. NIFONG: I object to the form of the question, but if you're able to answer that, you may feel free to do so. A. (By the witness.) It is difficult to answer the question as you put it because I don't know your definition of dramatic. I don't know coinciding with the - MR. NIFONG: And also you've got \ a very compound situation because some of the products are there for a long period of time. & (By Mr. Carroll.) Has there been any change in the sales figures concerning Georgia Pacific Ready Mix Joint System Compound that your company attributed to the fact that it became an asbestos-free product? A. Yes, there has. Q. Was that -- A. Or there was. Qi There was. Was that an increase or decrease ? IIUYm(Ml & hbb 8amsmdss, ft9? COURT ANO Of POSITION RKRORTIRI 57 *A. Decrease. & Was a decrease which occurred within a one-year period, that was noticeable with a one-year period, to the asbestos-free status? MR. NIFONG: If you know. Be - I careful and don't guess at these. l A. (By the witness.) The timing, I would be E uncertain of. S ft (By Mr. Carroll.) Mow is this within your 10 bailiwick, are these things that you would be aware 11 of? 12 A. Yes, I would. 13 Qi Maybe I can ask you the same question 14 concerning the Best Wall Bedding Compound, whether or 15 not there was a change in the sales figures of Georgia 16 Pacific Bedding Compound, that your company attributed 17 to the move to asbestos-free products? 18 A. I'm not aware of any such change. 19 & Same question. If I don't need to repeat 20 it, concerning Georgia Pacific Topping Compound. 21 A. I'm not aware of any such change. 22 Q. What about the Georgia Pacific Joint System 23 Products ? 24 A. I'm not aware of any change. 25 Cl How about One Day Joint Cement? IIUiniMC8 sb wmso COURT AMO Dt POSITION AlPOftTCPR i ( 58 A. I'm not aware of any change. Ql Triple Duty Joint Compound. A. I'm not aware of any change. Q. Did anybody ever arrive at any conclusions as to why there was a change concerning the Ready Mix Joint Compound, Joint System Compound, within your company ? A. It was attributed to the working qualities of a reformulated product. Q. To your knowledge, was there just the one 11 new formula and that has continued from that time or 12 has there been more than one formula tried? 13 A. I don't have any specific knowledge of 14 the formulas themselves. 15 Q. But certainly people within the sales 16 force attributed the decrease in sales to the problems 17 with the new formula? 18 A. The people within the sales force attributed 19 it to such, yes. 20 Q. Kas there a time when these products - 21 I'll take them initially as a group then break them 22 out, if they're different in each instance or in any 23 instance. Was there a time when they were marketed 24 with asbestos, but with warnings attached to them? 25 A. Yes, there was. IIU MO 8 states COU1IT AMO Of POSITION 59 Q. Do you know the period of time that was? I'm not referring to another date, but a year, two years or five years. Do you know the approximate length of time? MR. NIFONG: I object to the form of the question. Are you talking about as to all seven products? MR. CARROLL: Yes, my initial question goes to all seven products. If it's different, then we'll take it one at a 11 t ime. 12 A. (By the witness.) To the best of my 13 recollection, you would have to take them one at a 14 time . 15 Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Concerning Georgia 16 Pacific Ready Mix Joint System Compound, was there a 17 period of time in which that product was marketed 18 with asbestos, but with a warning? 19 A. Yes, there was. 20 Q. Do you know the time period involved? I'm 21 not referring to dates at this moment, but the length 22 of time period. 23 A I would know an approximate time length. 24 Q. Can you tell me what that was? 25 A Approximately three years. mi dye a S&msM&s COUI AMO DC PC PCPC 60 ft Can you help me with either of the parameters, the beginning date or ending date, approximately? A. We still have a warning label on Ready Mix Products. ft That's due to asbestos, a warning of asbestos? A. No, just not - ft The warning label you're referring has to do with what aspect of the product? A. Dust. Q. In the case of Georgia Pacific Bedding Compound, was there a time period in which the product was manufactured with asbestos, but with a specific warning concerning the asbestos? A. Yes, there was. ft Can you tell me the length of that period of time? A. Approximately the same period of time, ft Approximately three years? A. Yes. ft To your knowledge, the beginning date or ending date of that period, approximately? A. .1 know the ending date, ft All right. IIU (Dccffl a COURT AMO Of POSITION * A. 1977, for any of them. & Okay. Because that's the date you c including the asbestos? A. That1s correct. MR. NIFONG: I object to the form of the question. Is it to each one of these products or in bulk? MR. CARROLL: I thought he said all of them. THE WITNESS: If I did, I'm in error. (By Mr. Carroll.) Then I apologize. Your testimony may be different from that. M A. What I'm saying is by 1977 all warning 15 references to asbestos had been eliminated. 16 To be sure I understand you, because by 17 that time you were no longer including asbestos in any 18 of these products? 19 A. In any product. 20 Okay. Let's turn to the Georgia Pacific 21 Joint System Products. Was there a period of time in 22 which the products contained asbestos and a warning 23 was put on the products? 24 A. Yes, there was. 25 What was the length of that period? BsmziaOes COUAT AHO MAOSmON MAOATIfll I 62 1 `f MR. NIFONG: The question now is - 2 would you rephrase the question. I'm not 3 sure I follow you here. 4 Ql (By Mr. Carroll.) My initial question was 5 the same as in the other products that has to do with 6 the period of time. Was there a period of time in 7 which the products contained asbestos and also had on 8 the packaging a warning concerning the fact that they S contained asbestos? Your answer was - 10 A. Yes, there was. 11 Q. Then I followed that up by asking you what 12 the length of that period of time was. 13 MR. NIFONG: That we had the warning 14 on the package? 15 Qi (By Mr. Carroll.) Yes, and the asbestos 16 in the product. 17 A. To the best of my recollection, 18 approximately three years. However, I would like to 19 make it clear that I'm not absolutely certain it was 20 three years. It could be four years or it -- it could 21 22 23 24 i 25 I be two years . Ql I appreciate that. You can't be more specific about that on the ending date of that other than to say '77 again, as you did on the others? MR. NIFONG: That's not his testimony (MS 18&5<Jsifts? COUftT AMO DC POSITION MPOSTfSt I 63 on this product. A. (By the witness.) I didn't say that. C- (By Mr. Carroll.) What would be the beginning date or ending date on that, if you know? A. I don't know the ending date on many of these products. I'm simply saying by 1977 there was none on it. MR. NIFONG: That is a clear distinction. Q. (By Mr. Carroll.) Let's go to Georgia Pacific One Day Joint Cement. Was there a period of time during which this product has asbestos as one . of its ingredients and there was in fact a warning of asbestos contents on the package? A. I'm not certain on that product. Cl Concerning Georgia' Pacific Triple Duty Joint Compound, was there a time that the product contained asbestos and had a warning concerning asbestos content? A. Yes, there was. Cl Can you tell me that length of time? A. Approximately three years. Q. Can you help us in that regard, concerning the beginning date or ending date? A. No, only there was nothing on any of them INmI ilS(DoeeE fiasafiSeOss COURT AMO DC POSITION PCPOftTIM 64 after 1977 because there was no asbestos products produced. Sometime in 1977 it ended. 0- During the time you have been with Georgia Pacific, has the company manufactured dry wall as a commercial product for use in the construction industry? A. Yes, they have. Q. Is that dry wall or has that dry wall, to your knowledge, always just carried one brand name or has it had different brand names? n A. May I clarify dry wall? Do you mean Gypsum 12 Wallboard? 13 & Yes, sir. 14 A Did it have one brand name? 15 Q. Yes , sir. 16 A It had various brand names. 17 Q. Can you give me the brand names for which 18 you are familiar? 19 A Georgia Pacific Gypsum Wallboard. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A Best Wall Gypsum Wallboard. 22 Q Okay. 23 A. Fire-Stop Gypsum Wallboard. 24 Ql Okay. 25 A Tile Backer Gypsum Wallboard. IIUWii(MI S Jl88ete558 COOUT AMO OCPOSITION MPQRTIM f 1 Q. Please continue. i 65 2 A. Georgia Pacific Gypsum Sheathing. 3 0 You're saying sheathing? 4 A. S-h-e-a-t-h-i-n-g. 5 Q. Sheathing? 6 A. Sheathing . 7 Q. Okay. Got you . 8 A. Best V.'all Gypsum Sheathing. By the way, 9 all of these could be Best Wall or Georgia Pacific. 10 Veneer Plaster Base, V-e-n-e-e-r. That's 11 about it. Those are the primary products, at least. j 12 Q. Would the products that you identified as j 13 Gypsum Wallboard, would those products be generally I i 14 referred to in the industry as dry wall? i ; 15 A. Yes, they would, with the exception of the ; 16 Veneer Base. 17 Q. To your knowledge, have any of these ! 18 products contained asbestos at any time? 19 A. No, they haven't. 20 Q. Maybe I'll take areal shortcut when it 21 comes to lathing. Did your company also product 22 lathing during the time of your employment? 23 A. Yes, they did. 24 Ql Without going through theproducts, did any. j 25 of those products contain asbestos, to your knowledge?; | ,/Wv. - COURT AMO OOOIITIOM RKMORTIftS : i I 66 A. No, they didn't. Got rid of that one. Qi Should have done that on the dry wall. During the time that you have been employed with Georgia Pacific, has Georgia Pacific maintained any business offices within the State of Florida? A. Yes, they have. & Can you tell me when you remember them first having a business office in the State of Florida? A. My personal knowledge? 11 Q. Yes , sir . 12 A. 1965 . 13 q. What would have been the location of that 14 office or those offices? 15 A. Well Georgia Pacific had distribution 16 centers in Florida. Would you clarify it for me? Are 17 you saying from the first date of my recollection? 18 Ql Yes, sir. That's what I wanted to start 19 with, yes. 20 A. I would say Miami, Tampa, Orlando and 21 Jacksonville, from the first of my recollection. 22 0 WouId it be fair to say that that from I ! I 23 that time, even though the locations may have I i 24 changed or been added to or some have been closed, ! 25 that Georgia Pacific has continuously maintained IIIW! n(M fi COURT ANO 0 POSITION JtlPOATIAS  business offices of that nature m the State of 67 Florida ? A. That's true. Q. Are those distribution points identified as Georgia Pacific distribution points rather than some other name? A. Georgia Pacific Distribution Centers. Q. Have you been familiar with the individuals who have been responsible for the distribution center in the Tampa Bay area for the last 15 years or so? 11 A. I've been familiar since 1969 . 12 Q. Okay. VIho is the individual that, 13 according to your earliest recollection, was 14 responsible for that Tampa Bay Distribution Center? 15 A. william Moore. 16 Q. William Moore? 17 A. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I don't know his 18 middle initial. 19 Q. Is he still there? 20 L Yes, he is. 21 0. Is he still the head of that distribution 22 center? 23 A. Yes, he is. 24 MR. NIFOHG: He's a Branch Manager? 25 THE WITNESS: Correct. i v>- COURTANO OtAOStTIOM IIPOKTCM I 1 (By Mr. Carroll.*) In your corporate 2 setup, that location is considered a branch? 3 A. A distribution center, yes. 4 MR. CARROLL: I've run dry. When 5 it happens, it happens, and you've got 6 to know when to quit. Thank you very 7 much. You have been very cooperative. 8 THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir. 9 MR. NIFONG: I have no questions. 10 THE COURT REPORTER: Mr. Carroll, 11 would you like to have this transcribed? 12 MR. CARROLL: Certainly. 13 THE COURT REPORTER: Mr. Nifong, 14 would you like a copy? 15 MR. NIFONG: I would like a copy. 16 I would like for you to review it 17 as opposed to waiving and signing it. 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 MR. NIFONG: We are not waiving and 20 reading and signing. Would you make 21 arrangements with Mr. McClendon. 22 (Deposition concluded.) 23 24 25 68 COURTANO Dt POSITION RCPOSTCRS 09 OLIVER EUGENE BURCH SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO before me this, the day of January, 1984. NOTARY PUBLIC, ' My commission expires the _______ day of, 19 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 count AMO OC POSITION StPOSTCSl / CERTIFICATE /U STATE OF GEORGIA: COUNTY OF FULTON: I hereby certify that the foregoing deposition was stenographically recorded by me, as stated in the caption. The deponent was duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The colloquies, 11 statements, questions and answers thereto were 12 reduced to typewriting under my direction and 13 supervision and the deposition is a true and 14 correct record of the testimony/evidence given 15 by the deponent. 16 I further certify that I am not a relative J 17 or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the 18 parties, nor am I a relative or employee of such 19 attorney or counsel, nor am I financially 20 interested in the action. 21 This, the / ''day of January, 1984. J 22 23 BETTY J. ,CATLETT, 24 Certified Court Reporter and 25 Notary Public (B-479) My commission expires: 3-12-86. COURT ANO otpotmow j' RfPOBTCRft I*r \>C_ February 22, L984 TO: The Honorable Clerk Pinellas Circuit Court Pinellas County, Florida 7l4 RE: Bennett vs. National Gypsum Co. et al.; Circuit Civil No. 82-5351-2 DEPOSITION OF: taken on 12/5/83 Dear Sir: In regard the above-captioned case, the jura if page from said deposition has never been returned to our office properlv signed as we requested. (Copy of our correspondence attached). ' We are, therefore, filing the deposition absent the deponent s signature. Sincerely, b:;ll i associates Enclosure-Original unsigned deposition Correspondence dated - 1/16/84 CC: Attorney Robert J. Carroll Attorney J. Michael Nifong 4651 Roswell Road, N E. Suite F504 Atlanta. Georgia 30342 (404)256-2886 . , 1 ; >L - . i V_J I < ` Turat-Oliver H. Burch i Phillip >ic C1 e n d o . ' ' / . (1573 o IirMotXmIoMM January 16, 1984 Mr. Phillip McClendon Attorney at Law 11th Floor Georgia Pacific Bldg. 133 Peachtree Street Atlanta, GA 30303 RE: * PINELLAS COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT - STATE OF FLORIDA Bennett vs. National Gypsum Co. C/C File No. 82-5351-20 DEPOSITION OF: OLIVER EUGENE BURCH TAKEN ON 12/5/83 Enclosed is your copy of the deposition, which was stenograohicall reported In the afcove-cadcioned matter. Also, enclosed is the jurat page from the original deposition. It is reauesced that the deponent read the deposition for accuracy making certain the court reporter correctly reported the testimony If there are corrections co typing or spoiling, et cetera, these should be noted on a separate sheet of paper, indicating the page and line numbers on which these appear. In addition to the foregoing, it is reauesced that the personally subscribed jurar pace, rogecher with the errat3 sheet, if any, be returned to the office of Bull & Associates, within the next thirty- day period. U'o shall, upon receist , include same with the original deposition and file the complete deposition with the Clerk of the Court. Your assistance and cooperation in this matter is appreciated. Sincerely, Enclosure-Copy of deposition Original Jurat page CC: Robert J. Carroll, Eso. J. Michael Nifong, Esq. 3651 Roswell Road. N E Suite F 504 Atlanta. Georgia 30342 (404)256-2866 February 22 , 1984 TO: The Honorable Clerk Pinellas Circuit Court Pinellas County, Florida RE: Bennett vs. National Gypsum Co. et al.; Circuit Civil No. 82-5351 DEPOSITION OF: Oliver Eugene Burch, taken on 12/5/83 Dear Sir: In regard the above -captioned case, the jurat? page f ror, said deposition has never been recurneti to our office properly signed as we requested. (Copy of our correspondence attached). 'o are. therefore, f i 1 i si mature. e deposition absent the deponent's Sincere!v BL'LL & ASSOCIATES Enclosure-Original unsigned deposition Correspor. tienco dated - 1/16/84 CC: Attorney Robert J. Carroll Attorney J. Michael Nifong 4651 Roswell Road. N E. Su<leF504 Atlanta. Georgia XG42 (404) 256-2886 v irt ~ COURTANO of otmo RKRORTIRI January 16, 1984 Mr. Phillip McClendon Attorney at Law 11th Floor Georgia Pacific Bldg. 133 Peachtree Street Atlanta, CA 30303 RE: PINELLAS COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT - STATE OF FLORIDA Bennett vs. National Gypsum Co. C/C File No. 82-5351-20 DEPOSITION OF: OLIVER EUGENE BURCH TAKEN ON 12/5/83 Epclosed is your copy of the deposition, which was stenograph ically reported in the above-captioned matter. Also, enclosed is the jurat page from the original deposition. It is requested that the ceponenc read the deposition for accuracy, making certain the court reporter correctly reported the testimony. If there are corrections to typing or spelling, et cetera, these should be noted on a separate sheet of paper, indicating the pace and line numbers on uhir'.i these appear. In addition to the foregoing, it is reauested that the personal!'/ subscribed jurat pace, together with the errata sheet, if any, be returned to the office- of Bull 4. Associates, within the next thirty-day period. K'e shall, upon receict, include same with the original deposition and file the complete deposition with the Clerk of the Court. Your assistance and cooperation in this natter is appreciated. Sincerely, Enclosure-Copy of deposition Original jurat page CC: Robert J. Carroll, Esq. J. Michael Nifong, Esq. 4651 Roswell Road. N E. Suite F504 Atlania. Georgia 30342 (404)256-2886 ) t I r*, -$K- ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF DELIVERY UpS! jtnm%C 'Jf'i <& 'urat-Oliver E. Burch Phillip McClendon, Esn. Receiving Compony * Nome Receiver'* Signoture (X* ^'Dore ( ! / INSTRUCTIONS TO OrIVSR Cbtc.n receiver'* tio**oturc and dole above, turn in loopcrotmq center that day S.qnofurc must also be g* pf. ^/L^qryr.rr>e^ 4 i