Document rpX4dMxYprdjGEDNJoGKavJv7

. CC: Hr. R. R. Col* ) Hr. R. 3. Weatherly !ir. Paul Logue Mr. F. N. Williams HP. II. F. Weaver -----lie 4 F. A, Barker Hr. V.'. a. Krunnrich (3) Hr. F. E, Hubbard IMP REPORT 214 TXSTIM2I0TJSE ELECTRIC AND MANUFACTORING COMPANT East Pittsburgh,; Pennsylvania ' October 14-15, 1943 * , A meeting was held with men representing the Research, Engineering, and Purchasing Departments of Westinghouse at which revisions of the specifications for Aroclor 1354 (inerteen 6935-1) were discussed in detail and oertaln agreements were reached; and a later meeting was held with the Research group (Insulation Division) corresponding to F. M, Clark's group at General Electrio Company at which the question of air-cooled transformers vs. Iverteen-filled transformers was disoussed and interest was aroused in certain of our new products. In the following are notes, on the two meetings. These are given in con siderable detail, pertly so as to have a reasonably complete reoord of what went on and also beoause these meetings were the first direct contact between Anniston Researoh and Westinghouse technical men in something over ten years. MEETING OF OCTOBER 14 Present: Dr. R, N, Evans, Insulation Division of Researoh Laboratory Dr, L. J. Berberioh, Insulation Division of Researoh Laboratory Mr. P. E. Demmler, Engineer, Feeder Department Mr. R, E, Marbury, Engineer Switch-gear Department. (Circuit Breakers and Protective devises) Mr C. V. Fields, Engineer Switch-gear Department (Circuit breakers and Protective Devices) Mr. Gilbert Remley, Purchasing Department Dr. R, L. Jenkins, Monsanto Messrs, Marbury and Fields were introduced as interested in design and manufacture of oapaoitora, although their department end activity were given in the directory as shown above, ' The meeting was arranged by Mr. H, H. Hartneas, of the Purchasing Department of Westinghouse, through Mr. Weatherly. 4 . , In preparation for tank oar' shij^nts of Aroolor 1254 (oapacitor Injrteen), Westinghouse is installing a 15,000 gallon storage tank and a fuller's earth treater and filter for the individual batches (about 150 gallons each) fo be with drawn from the storage and delivered to the capacitor impregnating units. Their existing treating and handling equipment has been satisfactory for handling Aroclor 1254 received in drums. It is interesting to note that they "sucked,n rather than pumped, the Aroclor from the drums and through a `tall bed" of'fuller's earth to their oharging tanks for the capacitor treaters. DSW 331019 STLCOPCB4055909 2-- Trip Report 214 They are planning to draw the Aroolor from the tank oar into the storage tank by vaouum and to hold the Aroolor at a temperature above ordinary temperatures in the storage tank and at a vaouum of around 28" of mercury. The disign oalls for a oatoh tank to oolleot any oondensate between the stonage tank and the vaouum pump. , The plan was to hold the.Aroolor while in storage at 85 %C. They expressed oonoerr about fractional evaporation of the Aroolor that might affeot the properties of the product. Later Dr. Berberloh remarked that he had oarried out tests on this point and had found that a little evaporation improved ' (decreased) the power faotor whioh was regarded as the most important property. The possible change (lnorease) In viscosity, specific gravity and dieleotrlo constant as a result of evaporation in storage was regarded as of less importance. I suggested they drop the temperature somewhat below @5*0 so as to avoid excessive fractional evaporation, iiarbury agreed that they would try 5Q0 and even go lower provided their transfer system would then still handle the material. ' They anticipate consumption of two tank oars of Aroelor 1254 per montho If the inventory in the storage tank is maintained at from one-half full to full, this will mean a relatively slow turnover in the hot storage. They particularly asked whether I had any reason to believe that the hot storage would be harmful to the Aroolor in any respect other than possible fractional evaporation of the Aroolor. I know of no harmful effeot. If any iron is picked up it would presumably be removed by their fuller*s earth treatment between the storage tank and the capacitor treaters. Specifications: The primary objeot of the meeting was revision of specifications whioh they thought desirable for tank oar shipment. Actually, the real reason for their renewed interest was presumably the new arrangement (not mentioned during the meeting) whereby we will sell direct to Westinghouse rather than through the General Eleotrio Co. Marbury presented a detailed graph of the data as given in Monsanto's test certificates for shipments of Aroolor 1254 from October 1937 to February 1942 and pointed out that apparently our own data showed the shipments frequently fell outside our 6peoifioations. Specifically the graft indicated the following: Specifio gravity always within specifications, ' Pour point within specifications, except certificate of November 14, 1940. ' Vieoosity within specifications only 10 times out of 25 shipments (this point was cleared up in the disoussion the next day with Dr. Evans),, Color OK Acid number OK Heat loss OK , DSW 331020 STLCOPCB4055910 3--Trip Report 214 - .Distillation range completely within specifications only twice out of ' 25 shipments* ' Dieleotrlo constant within specifications only 11 times out of 22 ship- mants. . . Resistivity always within specification but quite variable (100 to 1500 x 109 ohms/om.5*;, ' , They were seriously concerned as to whether we would supply then a uniform produot within speoifloation although they had to admit that the product had been satisfactory in actual servioe and consequently the apparent devia tions in properties of the produot were not serious. They were also concerned that they be given as good a grade of Aroclor 1254 as their ohief competitor and I assured then that the sane material has been and will be supplied to themes we supply to other eleotrlo companies. I told them that I did not usually see any of te test certificates and therefore was not in a position to disouss the variations shown on their chart, but X would check up on this question-and write them. I pointed out that some of the test data that they complained about were incompatible with other data oh the same sample . For example, the certificate of November 14, 1940 showed a high pour point (one point or 2*0 above the ira*iBium specification) and yet the visoosity and specific gravity were normal, which would indicate an error in the determination or in copying the data. There were four errors in the chart in designating abscissas and ordinates (which, however, did not change the conclusions), and I judged that it had been very hurriedly drawn up by Mr. Marbury for the meeting. Specification Revision . .* Copies of Westinghouse predent specifications for 1 martean 6935-1 (Aroclor 1254) and of proposed new specifications were presented and discussed in detail. With the group as. large as it wap, it was impossible to reach definite agree ment on the various items and it was agreed that I would take the. various suggestions, go over the proposed specifications, check.with iur Operating and Sales Departments, and send them our revision for their cons i'.oration. Correspon dence should be directed to Dr. Evans with copies to Dr. C. F. Hill (Evanfs superior), Mr. Marbury, and Mr, Remley, Actually few Changes in specification will be necessary in order to satisfy Westinghouse. Df. Evans said they did not want to place unduly strict specification limits on the produot which were not warranted and which would work a hardship on us. The data shown by their graph, described above, must be checked to ascertain the apparently wide discrepancies between our test results in certain instances and our specifications, particularly with respect to distillation range and dielectric constant. The matter of viscosity was cleared up in a discussion with Dr. Evans the next morning and it was agreed that the specification would be ohanged from the Gr. E. value of 45 to 49 seconds to 44.5 to 47.5 seconds whloh is the range obtained with our calibrated viscosimeter on normal Ardor 1264. All shipments to Westinghouse since 1937 have conformed to the latter limitSo , . DSW 331021 STLCOPCB4055911 4--Trip Report 214 In general Weetinghouse would like to hare the speoificationa narrowed up although again they expressly stated they do not want to place any undue hardship upon (is,, _ Following are iLOtes on their suggestions oh speoifio items,whioh are numbered below as in their proposed new specification sheet: 1, Description, They want a more aoourate description than "Pentaohlor-Di-Phenyl - a pLe yellow, viscous liquid at room temperature." Suggestion; A mixture of chlorinated diphenyls having an average chlorine oontent approximately that of Pentachlor-diphenyl and possessing the ohemioal and physical properties described in sections 3 to 14 inclusive below. ` 2, Section stating that no change in quality shall be made without approval - no comments 3, Aoidity. Dr. Evans suggested that the limit of 0.01 be lowered. According to their graph the a old numbers of all shipments since October 1937 have been 0,007 or lower and sinoe November 1939 have been below 0,005. * Dr. Evans pointed out that the acid number data are not comparable with the figures for free chlorides assuming both are due to HC1, An acid number of 0,01 is equivalent to free chlorides of 8.88 ppm, Since our free ohlorides do not run over 0,15 ppm, there must be some aoid other than HC1 in the Aroolor or, alternatively, the extraction method for free ohlorides oatohes only a very small portion of the E01 or aoid chlorides present. I believe that the latter has been disproved at St, Louis by suooesBive extraction tests. We have been aware of these facts for a long time, but are dealing with suoh minute quantltfes of impurities (0.01 aoid number 1b equivalent to 0.001$ HOI or 0*01$ of an acid monohydroxy-pentaahlorodiphenyl) that chemical methods of identifying the acid or acids present is at least difficult. Dr Evans pointed out that ferric ohloride added to the Aroolor in an amount equivalent to 0.15 ppm of chlorides imparts a very high dielectric loss to the Aroolor. Consequently, he argued that the ohlorides oannot be present as ferric ohloride with whioh I agreed upon the bases of the other evidence. I pointed out to Dr. Evans that Aroolor 1254 with an aoid number less than 0.01 and free.chlorides test not over 0.15 ppm had been proved satis factory for capacitors; that the specification limits whatever their real significance as to impurities, had been found quite satisfactory indications DSW 331022 (r STLCOPCB4055912 5--Trip Report 14 of useable rAroolor from several years of experience. He understood this point but emphasized the fact that he could make up an Aroolor by adding minute amounts of, say, ferrio chloride that would pass both the acid number and free ohlorides tests and yet could be quite unsatisfactory as a, dielectric. I agreed that this was true but pointed out that other tests (specifically resistivity, power factor or dieleotrio loss) would oatoh such a situation. * I agreed to disouss with Operating Departments of Anniston and Plant B a possible lowering of the speoifioation limit on acid number. However, 1 do not recommend a change in this speoifioation. 4. Ohlorides. Discussed above. The test method and specification limit was worked in cooperation with O. 23. Go., and.I would not reoommerd a change from our present "0.15 ppm max." which should replace Westing- house's specification of "none." At Dr. Evans Request, I agreed to.aske tt ;Analytical Laboratory to test the pH of the water extract for a series of-shipments and reoort the results to him. .' 5. Distillation Range. Discrepancies between our test results and specifications as shown on Westlnghouse's graph should be oheoked up. Actually the 1 per Qent point, notnow included in the speoifioation might well be added. . 6. Condition - No oomment, 7. Speoifio Gravity - No comment, . 8. Viscosity. Since Westinghouse do net rim viscosity themselves nfl plan to continue to rely upon our test results the specification should be amended to the range (44.5 to 47.5 seconds) that we get on our calibrated viscosimeter. 9. Color. This was not discussed but should be amended to read on the AFHA. scale and probably 150 APHA max. to conform with the tentative specification of G. E. Co. 10, Pour Point. No comments ' 11. Eleotrioal Resistivity. No change in items (a) and (b) which con form to G. E,*s standard specifications. Cheok as to whether voltage we use conforms. Item (o) states that samples used for eleotrioal resistivity DSW 331023 STLCOPCB4055913 6--Trip Report 214 tests "may be treated by contaot with XXF Florex B absorbent or approve^ equivalent . . . This should be omitted or made mandatory, preferably omitted. If mandatory, the exact treating procedure should be opacified. 22. Dielectric Constant. Specification limits should not be changed but the reason why half of the shipments as shown an the Westinghouse graph fell outside specifications should be checked up and Vestinghouse assured of future conformanoe with specifications. 13. Power Factor. I told them that we do not usually determine power factor and they did not insist on our doing so. Even though we are not likely to be called upon to determine power factor, the specification should be included. The exact procedure for treating with clay prior to the test must be specified and the frequency (they give 60 cycles) in the actual test &ust be agreed upon. 14. Heating Loss. Specification is 0.4% max. Since no shipment (according to their graplj has diown greater than 0.01 since October 1937, I see no reason against aooeding to their suggestion to lower the limit. They are Interested in this Item because.of their plans for hot storage under vacuum. The Analytical' laboratory should have a standard rotating shelf oven for their test, - 15. Packing - No comments. 16. Drums - No oomments. 17. Bung - No comments. 18. Narking - No comments. . 19. Narking for Tank Cars - No oomments. ' 20. Inspection. This section provides that a "certified test report be supplied with each shipment. By this they meant a certificate sworn to before a notary. I told them we could have each report notarized if they insist e^but i thought it unnecessary. I recommend we omit the wort "certified" in our revision to be sent to Westinghouss, The list of tests to be included in our test report should be amended (a) by changing color from NPA to APHA scale and (b) omit power factor The list of tests to be included in our test report will then be as follows: Specific Gravity at 65C/l5.5*C Color (APHA.) Condition Acidity DSW 331024 STLCOPCB4055914 7--Trip Report 214 Free Chlorides Pour Point Viscosity at 98,9*C Distillation Range 155 point (?) 90# point Dielect>.'io Constant Resistivity , 21o Shipment, This section provides that shipment may he made with out approval provided our tests show the product to he within all specifica tions, The test report is forwarded to Westinghouse at ,the tine of shipment. Incase the product fails to meet any speoifioation test, the test report is forwarded to YTestinghouse and shipment is withheld until approved is given, I see no need for revision,' . 220 Rejection clause, Westinghouse reserves the right to reject . , , material that does not conform to the above specification in every particular . , . ,n It should he mentioned that, while Westinghouse will depend upon us for tests of the Aroolor before shipient, they plan to sample the tank oar before dumping and test for resistivity and power factor. Please note that no suggestion was made by Westinghouse to inolude a specification for water content. Even though this test is not included in the Westinghouse specification, I recommend it be run by us as a plant oontrol test for all lots of Aroclor 1254 to be sent to YTestinghouse and as protection to ourselves, , Contamination of Tank Cars Westinghouse will attach breathers to the tank cars so as to avoid entranoe of moisture during unloading. They particularly asked about cleanliness of returned cars as received by us from other customers, particularly whether we drained any heel and cleaned the oar, I told them that we oarefully inspected the oar and if it had an appreciable heel (we usually find as much as 50 gallons) thiB heel is sampled and tested. If okay, the oar is then filled. If not or if the oar is not perfectly clean, it is thoroughly oleaned before filling. DSW 331025 STLCOPCB4055915 8--Trip lleport 214 r Complaints: Ur, Llarbury Mentioned our use of a different type of drum in a shipment of about December 1941* This drum had a crimped-on head of a type that would not stand a severe blow without parting at the crimp* He claimed so:ie 25 drums had been received with sufficiently large holes to admit moisture to the Aroolor, I found that a complaint had been made through the proper channels and dropped the matter, . Mr* iferbury also claimed that shipments in 1942 have shown a decided increase in accumulations of Aroolor in their vacuum lines. They Impregnate their paper-spaced oapacitors with a vacuum of around 260 to 300 microns. They did not specify temperature. I suggested we could check up on any change in the Arodor that might have oaused this trouble by comparing evaporation loss tests and distillation temperatures at l and 10. They did not have the data available. The follwoing day Dr. Berberich told be he thought that there had been no change in the Aroolor and that the production men had just begun to notice the accumulations in their vacuum lines which had always occurred. 1 am inclined to believe Dr, Berberich, The complaint was made by Itr. Marbury that beginning in 1942 they had had trouble with Increased dlelectrio loss. This had begun in January and was at a peak in April 1942, The situation has their paper spacer that was in part responsible but, over and above that, he felt there had been some change in the Aroclor that was partly the cause for the high dielectric loss of condensers made during this period. 1 offered to try to get sufficient samples of Aro- clors made in 1941 and during the bad period (April) of 1942 so that exact electrical comparisons could be made. He did not want me to send them now. The following day, the matter was discussed with Dr. Hill who felt that the trouble was due to other factors mainly their paper, and not due to the Aroclor. . If I recall oorrectly, Clark of 0. K, ran into similar troubles some 5 years ago and actually had to .take a study of paper manufacture and finally tell the manufacturers how to improve their paper. Special Tests and Test Methoda Westlnghouse uses a continuous resistivity tester which is set dlreotly in their Aroolor pipe lines, llarbury said it was very simple--only a cell like our resistivity oell set in the line with axis parallel to the flow of the Aroclor and connected to the usual testing equipment. He suggested we put it in our line to storage tank or tank oar, . Dr. Evans asked for our data on resistivity vs. moisture content of Aro olor 1254. This will have to be obtained from St. Louis, Dr. Evans suggested we look into the A.S.T.M. method for free mineral aoidity as a possible procedure for distinguishing between HOI and organio acids in our Aroclor, He will send us further information. DSW 331026 / l! STLCOPCB4055916 9--Trip Report 214 Dr. Evans asked about our opinion of the oloud point method for deter-~ mining moisture content. * told him we had long ago abandoned it in favor of the Fischer method and he was entirely in agreement. However, he remarked that they had a method whioh he regarded as more satisfactory than even the Fisher method but did not give it to us. Chlorine Supply Marbury particularly asked whether I know any reason why they should be ooncemed about supply of ohlorlne for their increased requirements of Aroolor 1254. I told them that nothing that I knew indicated a shortage at present. There is a rumor of a huge new war demand for chlorine that may break at any time, but I have taken this rumor with a grain of salt and thought it unwise to mention it to the9* Crystals in Aroolor 1254 Dr. Evans told me that in some of their Aroolor 1254 pipe lines there had been found crystals containing copper, iron, and an organic material that could be extracted with benzene and that crystallized before evaporation of the benzene. A sample was obtained. -' Power Factor Dr. Berberich was particularly interested in F. M. Clark's curve (TJ. S. Patent ) showing a minimum power faotor at the pentachlor stage in the Aroolor series. Neither he nor Dr. Hill (whom I saw the followihg day) believed the curve correct and asked for fresh samples of Aroclors with higher and lower chlorine contents so as to check the data. Two- quart samples have been sent of Aroclors 1242, 124S, and 1260. Treating Olay Westinghouso uses a "hard burned" fuller's earth which had been treated to 900F during the calcining prooess. It is obtained as 100 mesh material from the Florid in Co. and is designated as XXF Florez B adsorbent. Before use it is heated to> 225*-250C for 24 hours and is then stored in a room at 100*0 until needed. . . They have found it much uore effective than Attapulgus earth, particularly in lowering the power faotor of the Aroolor. ... We will obtain samples. Mr. Marbury asked for a oo?y of the Aroolor booklet. I left my copy with Dr. Evans. . DSW 331027 STLCOPCB4055917 10--Trip Report 214 MEETING OF OCTOBER 15. The entire afternoon of October 14 was taken up with discussions of speci fications and related subjects. I went baok the following morning on invitation of Dr. C. F. Hill, manage!*of the Insulation Division of Researoh, who Is an old friend. Dr. Berberich and Dr. Evans were present part of the morning. Dr. Berberioh gave some details of the<evaporation tests he had mentioned the day before. Actually there were distillation tests using an A, S. T. U. distillation flask without fraotuating noluran and at 1 mm pressure. Weights were not given. ' Distilling Range Power Factor Light Transmission CI Per Cent Original Aroclor 1254 - Fraction 1 100*-134*C '(Peroent) .13 .20 not given 79.2?5 54.9 52.5 Fraction 2 Fraction 3 Residue . 134*-140*0 140*-147*C .09 .08 J.3 79.0 77.9 50,5 53.6 55.4 58.0 The test showed that removal of a low boiling fraction reduced (improved) the power faotor but it seems to me a much more direct and practical test oould be devised for determining the effect of hot vacuum storage on power faotor of Aroclor 1254. Dr. Hill remembered that the lower Aroolors are not as stable electrically as Aroclor 1254. Dr. Berberich has observed that the color of Aroclor 1254 is removed*from some samples and not from others and was particularly interested in just what the color is due to. This is a point on which we have little information ezoept that it Is not due to ferric ohloride (which imparts a similar color to white Aroclor) and Is probably due to minute traces of highly colored organic compounds. I told them a spectrographio study is now being made of Aroclor 1254. (It should be noted that the German equivalent of Aroclor 1254 - Clophen - is water white). I was impressed by the difference in attitude of Hill's group as oonp reV to Clark's group at G. E. Co. lhe former is inclined tvward the academic research approeoh with a yen for detail and a desire to know the reason why for each new observation while Clark is more the practical application man who is satisfied once he has obtained the desired result. There is a reed rivalry between the two laboratories. In spits of the fact that Westinghouse and General Electric have had a oroes-lioensing agreement for many years each wants to cone out first with a new development and each is in clined to minimize the new things developed by the others. *By their fuller's earth treatment DSW 331028 __ (i STLCOPCB4055918 11-Trip Report 814 I avoided mention of 0. E. Co., but Dr. Hill insisted on bringing up the subject, telling me onoe that on these ocoasions when Westinghouse had beat G. E. to a new development, Clark would'usually work for a ->eriod of time to get something better and then often had to give up and take a license from Nestinghouse after all. He said laughingly that sometimes the tables were turned. At another time, he said that Swann had offered Westinghouse the Aroolor development before he had offered it to G. E. Co., but Westinghouse had not seen fit to follow it up at that time, in part because Swann had wanted Westinghouse to put capital into it. This does not seem to me entirely accurate. Air-Cooled Transformers *. F. U. Clark of G. E. Co. has mentioned on several ocoasions that Westing house was pushing air-cooled or nitrogen-filled transformers in place of Aroolorfilled transformers. Clark has insisted that Westinghouse are off on the wrong track. I asked Hill what they were doing in air-cooled transformers. He said they were pushing them and were selling quantities for use on shipboard and for use'- in factories where it was not convenient to plaoe the transformer in a^ fire-proof housing. I pioked this up, saying that I understood the Underwriters Laboratories had approved ItSerteen-filled transformers for use in any location without a fire-proof housing. He did not directly answer this oomment but said that the ' Navy claims that any type of liquid-filled transformer 1b dangerous on shipboard. If the transformer is smashed in action any liquid, even non-flammable Imerteen, is a nuisance and even may be a real hazard. He said he did not regard ivprteen -filled transformers as being safe even in factories or other Indoor locations unless enclosed in a fire-proof housing. He cited the case of one such transformer:: located in an underground ohamber not closed off from the basement of a building in New York (?\ which had exploded due to a short within the transformer and had spread hot iTOrteen and fumes into the basement. I expressed surprise that an Iuerteen-filled transformer would explode at all (in'view of G. E, tests on this point--whioh I did not mention), but he Insisted this may ooour as a result of a bad aro within the case and would give rise to poisonous gases. I remarked that oareful tests (by the Underwriters' Laboratories) had shown no highly toxic gas (phosgene) is formed by aotlon of an aro on Aroolor. He admitted that might be true bjit HC1 gas is formed, which is true. (G. E. Co., at one time talked of including an HCl absorber in the trans former. 1 do not know whetor it is installed in current models) I know that G. E. do. have very carefully investigated the hazards in connection with Pyronol-filled transformers and I believe they are currently advertising the safety feature when suoh transformers are looatad adjacent to machines in factoriesemphasizing that no protective housing need be employed. I plan to ask Clark when I next see him whether they have ever had any acoidets with a Pyranol-filled transformer. The explosion referred to by Hill might have been with their old Imerteen formulation which contained chlorinated toluene in addition to the Aroolor--T.C.B. used by G. E. Co. DSW 331029 STLCOPCB4055919 18--Trip Report 814 At present, Weetinghouse can build air-cooled transformers for voltages up to only 13.8 kilovolts. These transformers must pass a test at 39 kilovolts but are considered safe for use only up to 13.8 kv. The reason for the limit is the relatively low dielectric strength of air as compared to oil or Iverteen. My impression had been that their transformers were sealed in a dry nitrogen atmosphere but the photographs did not so indicate and they did not offer any enlightening comments when I asked about nitrogen-filled transformers. . . Dr. Hill remarked that Q. E, Co. are now building air-cooled transformers-- which was a surprise to me. Santowaxes and HB-40 ' Santowaxes were discussed in considerable detail. There was no place where they saw they would fit for the moment, but Dr. Berberioh asked for samples an will try ideas as they ocour to him. Thessamples have been sent. Dr. Eill was interested in EB-40 and particularly asked about its resistance to oxidation. A sample has been sent for his examination. He remarked that oxidation tests might be run by Dr. Balsbaugh of M.I.T. who has been running such tests for a group of electric-equipment manufacturers. He would not promise, but I believe he will, make the arrangements. Complete data sheets on Santowaxes and HB-40 will sent to Dr. Hill. Aroolor 5448 ' I told Dr.* Hill that Aroolor 5448 has the highest dielectric constant of any in the 5400 series and is comparable with Aroolor 1842 but of much lower vapor pressure and higher pour point. He was interested in a sample which will be sent. Vinyl Terphenyl ' While we Were discussing Santoh axes, Dr. Evans asked whether we had made vinyl`.terphenyl (diphenyl styrene). I told him this was in our program but we had not yet made it. Dr. Hill then raised the question of Springfidd's Styramic (about which I claimed no specific knowledge). He said if this material oould be raised in softening point to 185*0, they would be much interested in it. At lunch with Dr. Hill and Dr. Berberioh, Dr. Hill brought the subject up again. He said they had made vinyl diphenyl (phenyl styrene) and had copolymerlzed it with styrene in an effort to rales the softening point of the polystyrene. (This .is what Springfield plans to do. They have as&ed us to make vinyl diphenyl for this purlose). The polystyrene is of great interest to them as a low-loss ' dielectric but has too low a softening point. The vinyl diphenyl raised the softening )oint to about 93*C (from about 88*0 for their polystyrene) but this was not enough and further it rendered the plastic too brittle. If plasticizers were added, the brittleness could be overcome, but the softening point was lowered. I suggested the oopolymerization of a very small amount of butadiene with the styrene-vinyl diphinyl mixture with the idea that this might overcome the brittleness without appreciably lowering the softening point. DSW 331030 ( STLCOPCB4055920 r- r"\ <f 13--Trip Report 214 Later, in Dayton, tills was discussed with. Dr, Thomas. He Is to supply speolal samples of certain styrene copolymers that I will submit to Dr, Hill, Dr. Hill had been interested in vinyl oarbazole which they could polymerize to give a plastio with 150*C softening point. However the produot was much too brittle, I suggested they try HB-40 as a plasticizer. Rust Proofing I took the liberty of asking Dr. Hill whether they were interested in a temporary rustproofing procedure for steel which we had worked out by us and whioh left no oil or grease on the surfaoe of the metal. He knew of no need but will keep it in mind. He mentioned Hr. H. D, Holler of the Chemical and Metallurgical Division of the Researoh Laboratory as the man to contaot on this, but I did not have an opportunity to do so. AB 10-22-42 R. L. Jenkins OS\N 331031 STLCOPCB4055921