Document rJ3Kk3L28yGbERY6Yd7Bp7Qv

Bates 82 1 Q. At the meeting, was the teratogenicity of 2 2.4.5- T specifically discussed? f 3 A. I don't remember that. 4 Q , Do you recall a meeting held on January 5 30th, 1965, with representatives of regulatory 6 agencies, the Environmental Health Services -- well, 7 withdrawn, I'm sorry. Let me rephrase that question. 6 What other meeting dealing in whole or in 9 part with the teratogenicity report of Bionetics and 10 attended by persons outside of NCI do you know of? 11 A. The initial round of meetings that I recall, I 12 mentioned Detrick, I mentioned FDA, the 13 representatives of the National Agricultural 14 Chemicals Association was another one and then I 15 recall a second meeting called by, I believe, FDA, 16 which I think was dealing specifically with the 17 2.4.5- T and the teratogenicity studies. 18 Who else was there, I don't remember now. 19 I remember it was a rather sizeable group, but I 'jn - 20 not sure of the participation. 21 Q * All right. Now, at the Detrick -- at the 2 2 meeting with representatives of Detrick, who else 23 was there? I guess I should ask who was there? 24 A. Who was there -- a couple of scientists from 25 Detrick who had worked on it i bates S3 1 Q. What were their names? 2 A. I don't tliink I've seen them since.' 3 Q Dr. Minarik? 4 A. I tliink, yes, that sounds right. 5 Q . -Dr. McNamara? 6 A. Dr. Me Plaque -- was Dr. -- Dr. McNamara has 7 been as Edgewood Arsenal since I've known him. I 6 don't know if he was at Detrick at that time or not. 9 I don't remember meeting with him. There was 10 another one at Detrick, but I -- 11 Q. Dr. Brown? 12 A. I don't think so. I don't recall that name. 13 C. Was the subject of 2,4,5-T discussed at 14 tha t meeting? 15 A. Yes, that was a meeting, as I recall, it was 16 specifically on the phenoxy herbicides that they had 17 worked o n . 18 Q. Now, do you recall being quoted in the 19 New Yorker? 20 A. Yes. , 21 Q. As placing that meeting in February of 22 1969? 23 A. I don't recall what I told the New Yorker or 24 what the New Yorker said to me. i 25 Q. Well, you recall reading the New Yorker ') Bates E4 1 article by Mr. Whiteside? 2 A. ies, I recall Mr. Whiteside's conversing with 3 me about it and 1 believe that whole series was at a A time that I -- when I still had my calendars and I 5 probably looked it up. 6 Q . And do you recall concluding that he had 7 the month right, that his information on what you 8 had told him about when this meeting took place was 9 correct? 10 A. I don't recall concluding it was wrong. 11 Q. Okay. Let me refer you to the Mew Yorker 12 article, which I represent is from the February 7, 13 1970 issue of New Yorker. I'm showing you a page 14 which we will eventually mark for identification, 15 mark the whole article, as a matter of fact, if 16 anybody needs it, in which you were quoted. I'm 17 just pointing to that paragraph which -- let me read 18 it into the record. Keep that, let me read it into 19 the record. 20 "Actually, as far back as February, 21 officials of the National Cancer Institute had known, 22 on the basis of a preliminary written outline from 23 Bionetics, the findings of the Bionetics scientists 24 on the fetus-deforming role of 2,4,5-T. Dr. Richard 25 Bates, the officer of the National Institutes of [ Bates 85 1 Health, who was in charge of coordinating the 2 Bionetics project, has said that during the same 3 month, this information was put into the hands of 4 officials of the Food and Drug Administration, the 5 Department of Agriculture and the Department of 6 Defense. 'We had a meeting with a couple of 7 scientists from Fort Detrick, and we informed them 8 of what we had learned,' Dr. Bates said recently. 'I 9 don't know whether they were the right people for us 1C to see. We didn't hear from them again until after 11 the Du Bridge announcement at tne White Ho use. Then 12 they called up and asked for a copy of the Bionetics 13 report.'" 14 Does that article refresh your 15 recollection as to the month and year in which your 16 meeting with the Detrick people took place? 17 A. You used the phrase, refresh my memory, in a 18 way that's foreign to me. If you mean can I find 19 the dates by reading it here and can I -assume that 20 those dates are correct, well probably so. My 21 memory is not easily refreshed as to dates, going 22 way back to history in high school. 23 Q. I have found that out. What was said 24 about 2,4,5-T to Dr. Minarik and the other 25 representative from Fort Detrick at that meeting? Bates 86 1 A, Well, I remember telling him of the results 2 that we had as of that point. r 3 Q. What specifically do you recall telling 4 him about the results that you had? 5 A. The reason for the meeting was to inform them 6 of whatever the data in the interim reports, the 7 data then available from Bionetics said. We did 8 that. Exactly what the conversation was, exactly S what information we.gave them, I don't remember that. 10 Q. Were they given a copy of the document 11 you have referred to as the draft of preliminary 12 Bionetics report? 13 A. As this is written here, this suggests that 14 this probably occurred before that draft was 15 available, so I'm talking about the full report of 16 the entire study, carcinogenicity, analytic 17 chemistry and everything. And the subject was the 18 phenoxy herbicide, and teratogenicity issue, but 19 what information we provided them, what papers we 20 gave them at that time, I can't remember. 21 Q. Were they given -- oh, you don't remember. 22 A . No. 23 Q.. Was there in existence at that time any 24. sort of preliminary report prepared by NCI of the 25 teratogenicity of 2,4,5-T?