Document rB7bx3332xY83K9JORwXxXxyv

1 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS STATE OF MISSOURI JUDITH BECHTOLD, wife of/and ) STEPHEN E. BECHTOLD, ELIZABETH ) TAMEWITZ, as Personal Representative ) of her deceased husband, KENNETH F. ) TAMEWITZ, KELLIE LEE TRISLER, as ) Personal Representative of her ) deceased mother, NINA TRISLER, ) PHYLLIS GOODMAN, as Personal ) Representative of her deceased husband, CHARLES GOODMAN, JR., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) Cause # 92200911 MONSANTO COMPANY and WESTINGHOUSE ELECTRIC CORPORATION, ) ) Defendants. ) DEPOSITION OF DR. ROBERT KALEY Taken on behalf of the Plaintiffs June 6, 1994 WALLER REPORTING, INC. 515 OLIVE STREET, SUITE 1506 ST. LOUIS, MO 63101 (314) 621 2571 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006259 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS STATE OF MISSOURI JUDITH BECHTOLD, wife of/and STEPHEN E. BECHTOLD, ELIZABETH TAMEWITZ, as Personal Representative ) ) ) of her deceased husband, KENNETH F. TAMEWITZ, KELLIE LEE TRISLER, as Personal Representative of her deceased mother, NINA TRISLER, PHYLLIS GOODMAN, as Personal Representative of her deceased husband, CHARLES GOODMAN, JR., ) ) ) ) ) ) ) vs. Plaintiffs, ) ) ) Cause # 922 00911 MONSANTO COMPANY and WESTINGHOUSE ELECTRIC CORPORATION, ) ) ) Defendants. ) ) DEPOSITION OF WITNESS, produced, sworn and examined on June 6, 1994, between 8:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. of that day, at the offices of Husch & Eppenberger, 100 North Broadway, St. Louis, Missouri, before Sheila C. Irvin, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri, in a certain cause pending in the Circuit Court of the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri; taken on behalf of the Plaintiffs. APPEARANCES The Plaintiffs were represented by Mr. C. Joseph Murray of the Murray Law Firm, 909 Poydras Street, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112. The Defendant, Monsanto, was represented by Mr. Thomas M. Carney of the law firm of Husch & Eppenberger, 100 North Broadway, St. Louis, Missouri 63102. The Defendant, Westinghouse, was represented by Ms. Jeana D. McFerron of the law firm of Lewis, Rice & Fingersh, 8182 Maryland Avenue, Clayton, Missouri 63105. 2 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006260 1 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED, by and between 2 Counsel for the Plaintiffs and Counsel for the Defendants, 3 that this deposition may be taken in shorthand by Sheila 4 C. Irvin, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary 5 Public, and afterwards transcribed into typewriting, and 6 transcript is to be read and signed by agreement of 7 counsel and consent of the witness. 8 oOo 9 DR. ROBERT KALEY, 10 of lawful age, being first duly sworn to tell the truth, 11 deposes and says on behalf of the Plaintiffs, as follows: 12 EXAMINATION 13 QUESTIONS BY MR. MURRAY: 14 Q. It's Dr. Kaley; right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Dr. Kaley, my name is Joe Murray. I 17 represent the plaintiffs in this action. Have you ever 18 been deposed before, sir? 19 A. Yes, I have. 20 Q. Of course you have. I know of at least one 21 time. You are aware then that any question that I ask 22 that you don't understand and would like to have me 23 rephrase it, simply ask me to do so. I'll be happy to do 24 so. You're entitled to explain any answer that you give. 25 If you want to give an explanation, I would simply request 3 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006261 1 that you give the answer first and then the explanation so 2 that I will be clear on the record. This lady is going to 3 be taking down everything that's said, so it's necessary 4 for you to answer out loud. 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 MR. CARNEY: Joe, before we start, as I 7 understand it, he's been designated as to one aspect on 8 the 30B6 deposition and that I think you've asked for him 9 or you may want him as an individual witness. Can we 10 I'd like to keep that dichotomy because there are 11 different consequences to his testimony if he's the 30B6 12 deponent on something as opposed to just taking his 13 deposition. 14 MR. MURRAY: Off the record. 15 (Whereupon, an off the record discussion was held.) 16 MR. CARNEY: Just to clarify, this is not 17 part of the 30B6 deposition. You have noticed Mr. Kaley 18 for his deposition as an employee of Monsanto, and that's 19 what we'll be taking here, and then if at a later point 20 you decide you want to follow up on some aspect of the 21 30B6, we can do that later. 22 MR. MURRAY: Let's go off the record again. 23 (Whereupon, an off the record discussion was held.) 24 Q. (By Mr. Murray) Dr. Kaley, I have reviewed a 25 deposition that you gave in a case entitled Scott versus 4 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006262 1 Monsanto, and this deposition was given in May of 1987. 2 It's going to be my intent today to concentrate mainly on 3 the time subsequent to 1987 and talk to you about that 4 time period, but I understand that it may be difficult for 5 you to differentiate as to what may have occurred since 6 1987 and what happened before and that kind of thing. So 7 if you have any problems with that, let me know and, you 8 know, we can fix it; okay? 9 A. I'll do my best. 10 Q. All right. I just don't want to waste time 11 on going through everything that's already been asked. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. Now, are you still employed by Monsanto? 14 A. I am. 15 Q. And in what capacity are you employed now? 16 A. My title is director, environmental affairs. 17 Q. When did you begin Well, let me phrase it 18 to you this way. Was that your title in 1987? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Tell me what's happened since 1987 with 21 regard to your career at Monsanto. 22 A. I guess at the time I was manager of 23 environmental technical support doing largely the same 24 things that I'm doing now, but with less responsibility 25 for people management. So I've had, as I recall, since 5 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006263 1 that time two promotions, both, as I said, largely to 2 reflect increased responsibility for people management. 3 Little change in my technical responsibilities. 4 Q. Okay. How would you describe your duties 5 today? 6 A. My primary duty is to serve as a resource 7 within our, it's environmental safety and health group, 8 now, for technical information on a variety of issues, 9 some of which relate to products that Monsanto no longer 10 manufactures. 11 Q. Which, as I remember your testimony, that was 12 basically the same duties that you had back then, only you 13 only had, I think, one or two people in that who were 14 doing that same kind of work? 15 A. That's right. 16 Q. Is it your testimony today that that 17 department has grown? 18 A. Well, no. It's just that I've moved up 19 through the department. My boss at that time has since 20 retired, and I basically assumed his responsibilities, so 21 the department actually has shrunk. It's just that rather 22 than having my At the time I think my responsibilities 23 were largely focused on PCBs in 1987, and that 24 responsibility has broadened to some other materials, but 25 the department has probably shrunk rather than expanded. 6 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006264 1 I just have more people that are reporting to me rather 2 than me reporting to them. 3 Q. Okay. So basically what you do is consult 4 with people within Monsanto regarding environmental 5 regulations and on procedures to use to make sure you're 6 in compliance with those regulations and things of that 7 sort? 8 A. Things of that sort, yes, correct. 9 Q. Okay. All right. With regard to PCBs in 10 general, and I guess dielectric fluid in particular, are 11 there still occasions when you may have to be called in to 12 consult on issues involving those chemicals? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And would all those relate to, I guess, uses 15 outside of Monsanto? In other words, things that have 16 been in use for a while and people call you and want to 17 know what to do with it? 18 A. There are those kinds of things, right. 19 Q. Are there ever any occasions when you may 20 have to consult with somebody within Monsanto regarding 21 the use or handling or disposal of PCBs? 22 A. Well, there is another gentleman who reports 23 to me that has those kinds of responsibilities, also, so I 24 may consult with him, but that's still within our 25 organization, so probably not. I think we're looked upon 7 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006265 1 as the source of PCB expertise within Monsanto. 2 Q. Would those occasions relate to transformers, 3 capacitors and things of that sort already in use in the 4 Monsanto plants? 5 A. Yes, to the extent that we have any, yes. 6 Q. Okay. I'm wondering if there are any other 7 occasions wherein you might need to consult with somebody 8 within Monsanto regarding PCBs. 9 A. Well, there are occasions when the attorneys 10 have questions. I sometimes talk to the attorneys. 11 Q. Other than that, though? 12 A. But other than that, other than technical 13 questions related to other subjects that have some 14 peripheral involvement with PCBs, not usually, no. 15 Q. How many people work in that department in 16 the, I guess, environmental affairs? 17 A. I think there are about 13 of us now. 18 Q. Okay. And are you in charge of all 13? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Now, there are a couple of questions that I 21 want to get into that are not time framed specific because 22 I wasn't clear based upon the deposition and some 23 addendums apparently to the deposition about some of your 24 answers. So specifically I'm talking about your test that 25 you ran on, I think it was Aroclor 1242 and 1254 with 8 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006266 1 regard to dibenzofuran contamination. As I remember the 2 deposition testimony, you indicated that you believed, and 3 obviously you didn't have the documents in front of you at 4 that time, that the contamination was in the two parts per 5 million range. As I reconstructed, there was a subsequent 6 addendum to the deposition where you testified 7 differently. 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. Is that a fair statement? 10 A. That's fair. 11 Q. Can you tell me what that difference was? 12 A. Well, basically it was the finding in my 13 file, the paper that I had forgotten which reported some 14 results on Aroclor 1254 where the levels were somewhat 15 higher than my original testimony reflected. 16 Q. Okay. That's basically where I gotconfused. 17 I couldn't tell if the higher levels were only related to 18 1254 or if they included 1242. 19 A. At the time, and my recollection is the 20 higher levels only are 1254. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. The 1242 levels have beenconsistently around 23 the two part per million level, as I recall. 24 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you a document which 25 is marked BEC114355 and 114364, and see if you can 9 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006267 1 identify that for me. 2 A. I have seen this document, yes. 3 Q. Were those the notes that you had just 4 referred to? 5 A. No, sir. 6 Q. No? What does that What is that document? 7 A. This document reflects some work that was 8 done by Dr. Christopher Rappe, R a p p e, in Sweden. At 9 whose request, I don't know, but one of the Fred gentlemen 10 on here apparently had been at the presentation where 11 Dr. Rappe had presented these data and was transmitting 12 that information to another researcher at Monsanto. This 13 is my guess well, my estimation would be this is in the 14 1980 time frame, 1982 possibly, possibly even later. 15 Q. This Dr. Rappe, this wasindependent research 16 he conducted on PCB samples? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. Were those samplesobtained fromMonsanto? 19 Do you know? 20 A. I don't know. 21 Q. Do you know whether or not they were 22 Aroclors ? 23 A. Based on the designations 1254 and 1260 at 24 the top, those two materials presumably were Araclors. 25 The two materials designated A40 and A50 were not 10 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006268 1 Aroclors. Those are Klophen products which is a PCB of 2 German manufacture. 3 Q. All right. What about this 3010? 4 A. That, I don't know what that is. 5 Q. Okay. Are these various numbers on the, on 6 the far left of the document, are those various congeners 7 of furans? 8 A. There are two There are two different 9 designations there. The ones that are numbered, for 10 instance, the top 2, 3, 7, 8 TCDF, that is a specific 11 congener of the tetrachlorodibenzofuran. The next line 12 with the little Greek Sigma, that means summation of all 13 the tetrachlorodibenzofurans. So if we want to look at 14 1254, the second column, .019 is parts per million is how 15 much 2, 3, 7, 8 tetrachlorodibenzofuran was present. On 16 the other hand, 1.4 parts per million of all of the 17 tetrachlorodibenzofurans taken in toto summed to that 18 amount. The same would be true then for the 19 pentachlorophenyls, hexa or excuse me the 20 pentachlorodibenzofuran and the hexachlorodibenzofuran. 21 Q. And this bottom line here where it says total 22 CDBFs, how does that differ from the, from these little? 23 A. Well, if you add up all of the summation 24 signs, if you add all of the tetrachloro's, all of the 25 pentachloro's, all of the hexa's, all of the hepta's and 11 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006269 1 the octa's, each one of those numbers added up should 2 total the 16.4 parts per million. 3 Q. Okay. I understand. I know that your 4 specialty and certainly your designation is not 5 toxicology, but do you know in general terms which one of 6 these congeners may be more toxic than others? 7 A. I have some general knowledge of that, yes. 8 Q. Can you tell me what that would be? 9 A. One of those pentachlorophenyls, and as I sit 10 here right now I keep saying phenyls. One of those 11 pentachlorodibenzofurans is thought to be the most toxic 12 by toxicologists. I don't really remember whether it's 13 the 1, 2, 3, 7, 8 or the 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, but one of those 14 two, and then the 2, 3, 7, 8 tetrachlorodibenzofurans is 15 thought to be also relatively more toxic than the other 16 congeners. 17 Q. And do you know who Paul is on this first 18 sheet where it looks like it was notes as being written to 19 Paul from Fred? 20 A. Yes, I do. 21 Q. Who is that? 22 A. Paul Michael. 23 Q. Who is he? 24 A. He's another analytical chemist at Monsanto 25 Q. And you indicated that you do not know who Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD 12 WATER PCB-SD0000006270 1 the Fred was, or you do know? 2 A. I do know. 3 Q. Who was that? 4 A. Fred Hileman, H i 1 e m a n. 5 Q. He' s an analytical chemist at Monsanto? 6 A. That 's correct, yes. 7 Q. Part of what I was going to talk to you about 8 today was if any further research has been done with 9 regard to furans and other contaminants in Aroclors, and I 10 guess now probably is as good a time as any to get into 11 that subject. Do you know since you did your work 12 Well, first of all, have you done any work yourself other 13 than the initial test that you ran regarding any furan 14 contamination in the Aroclors? 15 A. No, I have not. 16 Q. Do you know if anybody else at Monsanto has 17 done any additional tests? 18 A. Since 1987 or since I did my work? 19 Q. Since you did your work. 20 A. There has been some done, yes. 21 Q. And by whom was that done? 22 A. By Paul Michael. 23 Q. And describe for me what he did. 24 A. Well, basically he looked at a few samples or 25 maybe even one or two samples of Aroclor 1254 to measure 13 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006271 1 the PCDF contents in those one or two samples. 2 Q. Do you know what his results were? 3 A. Not specifically. They were consistent with 4 previous data. 5 Q. That's what I was going to ask. Were they 6 consistent with what you found? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. Do you know why he did that additional 9 work? 10 A. Yes, Ido. 11 Q. Why? 12 A. We were preparing to initiate a feeding study 13 of cattle with Aroclor 1254, and we wanted to know what 14 the PCDF content of the feeding material was. 15 Q. Okay. When was that done? 16 A. About 1982 . 17 Q. Was that feeding study done? 18 A. Yes, it was. 19 Q. Were the results published? 20 A. Yes, they were. 21 MR. MURRAY: Off the record. 22 (Whereupon, an off the record discussion was held.) 23 Q. (By Mr. Murray) Back on the record. Because 24 of my limited involvement in this case over the last year, 25 I'm not sure whether we have the studies that you've 14 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006272 1 referred to, Dr. Kaley, so I'm making a request on the 2 record from Monsanto that if we have not yet been, not 3 already been provided with those studies, that we do, that 4 we get a copy of them; all right? Anybody else at 5 Monsanto To your knowledge, has there been anybody else 6 at Monsanto to your knowledge who has done any additional 7 work on determining the furan content of Aroclors? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 Q. What about Do you know whether or not any 10 work has been done at Monsanto with regard to dioxin, 11 using the generic term, contamination of any Aroclor 12 product? 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 Q. Do you know whether or not 15 A. Are you talking subsequent to 1975 or '76 16 when I was doing my work? I need to know the time frame. 17 Q. I think you testified, and I could be wrong 18 about this, but as I remember your testimony, you said 19 that Monsanto had never looked for dioxins in any of its 20 Aroclor product, and so I guess my question is not limited 21 to timing. 22 A. Well, if that was my testimony, it was either 23 in error The original work that was done in the early 24 1970s to reproduce the work of Dr. Vos, Vos, from the 25 Netherlands, dibenzodioxins were looked for at that time, 15 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006273 1 and none were found. 2 Q. And that was your work? 3 A. No, that was work by Dr. Mieure. 4 Q. Okay. Who is Dr. Mieure? 5 A. An analytical chemist at Monsanto. 6 Q. When was that work done? 7 A. Probably 1971, maybe 1972. 8 Q. Let me show you a document. I don't see a 9 BEC number on this document, Tom, so I'm just going to 10 identify it with an SCM number, 037110. Ask if you've 11 seen that before. 12 A. I have seen this document, yes. 13 Q. Can you describe to me what that document is? 14 A. Well, this is a document from Dr. Robert 15 Keller to Mr. William Papageorge describing or attached to 16 apparently a report by Dr. Mieure summarizing the analyses 17 in 1970 of Monsanto's attempts to detect dibenzofurans and 18 dibenzo para dioxins in Monsanto Aroclor products. 19 Q. Is that the work that you were just talking 20 about? 21 A. Yes, it is. 22 Q. All right. Do you know of any other work 23 done by Monsanto looking for dioxin contamination in 24 Aroclor products? 25 A. I do not know of any other, no. 16 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006274 1 Q. Okay. This is the, I guess, the summary of 2 the work that was done by Dr. Mieure; correct? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Have the testing methods improved since 5 October of 1970 to the extent where you believe that you 6 would be able to detect dioxin contamination at under one 7 to five parts per million? 8 A. Possibly an order of a magnitude or so, maybe 9 even less. They have certainly improved since 1970, no 10 question. 11 Q. Did they improve between the timethis 12 testing was done and when you made your tests? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. Would that explain why Dr. Mieure did 15 not find any detectable levels of furan contamination and 16 you did? 17 A. Possibly partly, yes. 18 Q. Do you know of any other reason why your test 19 would be, would show different results than his? 20 A. Well, it's potential Some of the samples 21 that we analyzed were clearly different than some of the 22 samples that Dr. Mieure analyzed. There were some slight 23 differences between samples in the dibenzofuran contents, 24 so I think those two factors would depend on the sample, 25 but largely would depend on the improvements in the 17 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006275 analytical methodology. Q. Okay. I know you testified in 1987 that to your knowledge, Monsanto never ran any tests on Inerteen PPO, I believe is the designation for it, and I'm specifically talking about the blend of Inerteen which contained the, I think it's I forget the chemical name for it, but it's the chlorinated benzene. Is that the right A. Yes . Q. Okay. To your knowledge, has any testing ever been done by Monsanto on that particular product to determine dioxin contamination? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. What about furan contamination? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Do you know whether any testing has been done on that particular product outside of Monsanto to determine contaminant levels of furans and/or dioxins? A. I don't know specifically. It's possible, but I don t know specifically. Q. When you say that, are you remembering something vaguely? A. Well, there has been some work done by EPRI, the Electric Power Research Institute in the 1980s where they looked at a variety of electrical fluids. It is 18 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006276 1 conceivable that Inerteen PPO was among those fluids. I 2 just don't know. 3 Q. Do you remember what the results were of that 4 study in general terms? Were any contaminants found in 5 those, in any of those fluids? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And what levels Let's talk, first of all, 8 about furans. 9 A. Right. There were two results. One was that 10 the levels of furans were largely consistent with what was 11 reported in the literature, and the second result was that 12 those levels were not increased by in service use of the 13 fluids. 14 Q. Okay. What about dioxin? 15 A. None were detected. 16 Q. Was that study published? 17 A. It's published as an EPRI report. 18 Q. Okay. And do you have a copy of that? 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. And I'll just make this general request, 21 also, Tom. If we haven't already been provided with that, 22 I would request that we get a copy of that. 23 MR. CARNEY: Okay. What is that again? 24 Q. (By Mr. Murray) It's an EPRI Is it EPRI 25 report? 19 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006277 1 A. Yes, EPRI. 2 MR. MURRAY: Discussing furan and dioxin 3 contamination of dielectric fluids. 4 MR. CARNEY: Okay. 5 Q. (By Mr. Murray) Let me show you a document. 6 Again there's no BEC number on this document. I think 7 it's a Stroh document, STR number 006389, and ask if you 8 can identify that. 9 A. I have seen this document, yes. 10 Q. And tell me what thatdocument is. 11 A. Well, it's a handwritten note summarizing 12 some results of chlorodibenzofurans in PCB products. 13 Q. Do you know who wrote it? 14 A. Not positively. 15 Q. Okay. Do you have a guess? 16 A. I believe I might know who it is. 17 Q. Who is that? 18 A. It looks like Jim Mieure's handwriting. 19 Q. I won't hold you to that. I understand that 20 you're just, you're making your best guess. And do you 21 know when that note was written in a general time frame? 22 A. I don't. I think it was the late 1970s. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I don't know the specific year. 25 Q. All right. You said late 1970s? 20 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006278 1 A. Yes. The reason I know that is because 2 they're talking about a Rhesus feeding study, and that 3 study wasn't done until the late 1970s, so 4 Q. I was going to ask you about that. 5 Apparently when this was compiled, he had information, and 6 I'm making a guess on this, but is this, are these places 7 that are listed here places where Aroclor was made? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And came from? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And Anniston, Newport and Krummrich? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What is in Newport? 14 A. That's in Great Britain. 15 Q. Okay. He's got under here 1974 75 range, 16 five to 33. Is that the work you did? 17 A. No, that was the work that I believe 18 Dr. Mieure did. That's the work that was discovered 19 subsequent or was, the paper was refound subsequent to the 20 Scott deposition. 21 Q. He's got a list here of what he calls used 22 Therminol with a number of 90. I guess that's parts per 23 million? 24 A. Yes . 25 Q. When was that work done? Are these results 21 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006279 1 something that he just, he did in this time frame? 2 A. No, these are compilations. Some of the 3 results aren't even ours. The Yusho oil are not even 4 Monsanto analyses. These are just a compilation of 5 representative data through a longer time frame. 6 Q. All right. Do you know who did the work on 7 the used Therminol? 8 A. I believe Dr. Mieure did. 9 Q. Okay. Therminol is a heat transfer fluid. 10 Is that correct? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. Is it pure PCB, or is it a blend of PCBs and 13 something else? 14 A. The Monsanto Therminol FR products were pure 15 PCBs . 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Well, with a correction. There may have been 18 low levels of anticorrosive agents or something, but they 19 were largely PCBs. I would have to check to be sure. 20 Q. And was the Therminol that he tested a 21 Monsanto product? 22 A. I believe it was, yes. 23 Q. What number are we talking about with regard 24 to chlorination of the Therminol products? 25 A. I don't know specifically what that one was. 22 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006280 Q. Okay. You don't know if it's 1242, 54, 60? A. I don't know that one. No, I do not. Q. Now, for the Yusho oil, he's got a listing of five parts per million and the Kanechlor 400, is that basis? A. Basis, right. Q. 5,000. As I understand what happened there, the PCB product which in that case, I believe, was Kanechlor? A. Yes . Q. Leaked into a manufacturing process of rice oil? A. That's correct. Q. So what he's saying is that the Kanechlor that leaked had a level of 5,000 parts per million and the resulting oil that was consumed had a level of five parts per million? A. That's basically correct, yes. Q. Do you know where he got the 5,000 number from? A. Yes. It's basically a calculation from analyzing the levels of dibenzofurans in the oil and the levels of PCBs in the oil and just ratioing those two numbers. Q. All right. And these were actual furan 23 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006281 1 numbers, PCDFs? 2 A. Well, those are numbers That 5,000 number 3 is a result of a calculation. The 5,000 was never 4 measured in any fluid. It's a result of a calculation as 5 I described it. 6 Q. So they get that number from estimating how 7 much PCB oil leaked into the rice oil and then 8 extrapolating it back backwards? 9 A. Basically true. As I said, they measured the 10 amount of dibenzofurans in the rice oil. They measured 11 the amount of PCBs in the rice oil, and when you ratio 12 those numbers, which all PPM means is it's just a ratio, 13 when you ratio those two numbers, the 5,000 is the result 14 of that calculation. 15 Q. And the Rhesus feeding study numbers, were 16 those to your knowledge Monsanto products? 17 A. Yes, I believe they were. 18 Q. Okay. What are these designations down here, 19 K1 02 602? 20 A. That's a lot number from the manufacturing 21 process. 22 Q. Okay. And do you know what level that was? 23 Was that a 1242, 1254, 1260? 24 A. I believe all of these are Aroclor 1254 or 54 25 percent chlorinated anyway. That's my assumption. 24 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006282 1 Q. Based upon the indentation? 2 A. Right, because it's indented. I believe 3 that's right. 4 Q. Let me show you another document, again with 5 an SCM068517, and ask if you can identify that. 6 A. Yes, I've seen this. 7 Q. All right. Tell me generally what that is. 8 A. Well, this is another report summarizing the 9 work that Dr. Mieure did in 1970 subsequent to the report 10 by Dr. Vos out of Europe, and it was the summarization of 11 Monsanto's attempts to reproduce Vos's determinations. 12 Q. Same tests that we previously talked about, 13 just a different report on it? 14 A. That's right. 15 Q. And this number for this document is SCM 16 number 068617, and that appears to be a report by you. 17 Can you look at that and confirm that for me? 18 A. Yes, that is correct. 19 Q. Tell me about that document. That appears to 20 be summarizing a seminar or something you went to? 21 A. It's a trip report I wrote following a 22 meeting of analytical chemists in Georgia in May of 1975. 23 Q. Okay. And again, theseresults appear to 24 basically confirm the same thing that you already had. Is 25 that 25 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006283 1 A. Well, that's not quite right. These were 2 some results coming out of the FDA research labs in which 3 they suggested that there were chlorodibenzofurans being 4 found by them in Aroclor products, and up to that point no 5 one had measured or determined chlorinated dibenzofurans 6 in PCB products, and so this was the first hint, and when 7 we went to that meeting, I think the thrust of my summary 8 was that although they were giving a talk, that their 9 analytical data was relatively weak and certainly did not 10 constitute a confirmed finding, and there were no 11 measurements of dibenzofurans in Monsanto Aroclor 12 products. 13 Q. This was before you did your work then, huh? 14 A. It's before we actually succeeded in 15 measuring chlorinated dibenzofurans in any of our 16 products, that is correct. 17 Q. Okay. They have listed here next to Aroclor 18 1242, 2, 3, 4. What does that indicate? 19 A. That's correct. Well, those numbers are the 20 number of chlorine atoms they reported on the dibenzofuran 21 molecule. So that for Aroclor 1242, their data suggested 22 that they were finding dichlorodibenzofuran, 23 trichlorodibenzofuran and tetrachlorodibenzofuran in 24 Aroclor 1242. Those have nothing to do with 25 concentrations. 26 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006284 1 Q. That's what I was going to ask you. That has 2 nothing to do with parts per million or anything like 3 that? 4 A. Right. They did not present any quantitative 5 data on those materials. 6 Q. Okay. Apparently they did give a general 7 statement, though, that they were finding them in one to 8 several parts per million range? 9 A. That's what it says. Yes, that's reflected 10 in the documents, yes. 11 (Whereupon, a short break was taken.) 12 Q. (By Mr. Murray) We'll go through the rest of 13 these documents, Dr. Kaley. This was numbered STR000068. 14 I can't tell if that's 38 or 36. 15 A. You want to look? 16 MR. CARNEY: Why don't we just identify the 17 title of it. 18 A. Okay. This is a typed document titled 19 "Chlorodibenzofurans in PCBs. " 20 Q. (By Mr. Murray) That's basically the same 21 thing we looked at in the handwritten notes, isn't it? 22 A. That is a typed version of that document, 23 yes, it is. 24 Q. Okay. Same thing. And this document has a 25 BEC number 106332. Can you take a look at that and tell 27 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006285 1 me what that is? 2 A. I have seen this document, yes. 3 Q. Okay. And what is that? 4 A. It's a memo from Mr. William Papageorge to 5 Mr. Savage summarizing some analytical work that 6 Dr. Mieure did on starting materials in the Aroclor 7 process. 8 Q. Is the conclusion that was reached based upon 9 those tests that at least some of the furan contamination 10 is present in the component parts of PCBs? 11 A. Well 12 Q. If that's the right term. I'm sure it's not. 13 A. This material, this analysis was looking at 14 non chlorinated materials, and the dibenzofuran they're 15 talking about here is the parent dibenzofuran molecule, 16 not chlorinated dibenzofurans, and it was reported to be 17 detected in Santowax R which was a terphenyl product, not 18 a biphenyl product. But with those qualifications, yes, 19 it did report the presence in that Santowax R. 20 Q. Is Santowax R used in the manufacture of 21 biphenyls? 22 A. No, it's used in the manufacture of 23 polychlorinated terphenyls. That's my understanding. 24 Q. Is it used in the manufacture of Aroclors? 25 A. In the Aroclor 5400 series, the terphenyl 28 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006286 1 product line, yes. Not in the Aroclor 1200 biphenyl 2 product line, no. 3 Q. All right. I didn't realize that there was a 4 distinction. The 1254 product series is terphenyl? 5 A. No. 1254, the materials starting with 12, 6 the 1200 series are chlorinated biphenyls, so Aroclor 1254 7 is a chlorinated biphenyl. There was another series of 8 materials, the 5400 series, for instance, Aroclor 5442 9 which is a chlorinated terphenyl product, and that was the 10 product line in which Santowax R was a starting material. 11 Q. What was the 5400 series used, what products 12 did they make out of that? 13 A. Almost exclusively plasticizers. 14 Q. Okay. Were any dielectric fluids made from 15 the 5400 series? 16 A. Not to my knowledge. 17 Q. And finally, this last document is marked 18 MON091303. Are you familiar with that one? 19 A. I'm not sure that I've seen this previously. 20 Q. This letter appears to be addressed to Dr. 21 R. E. Keller. Was he a Monsanto employee? 22 A. Yes, he was. 23 Q. What was his position at Monsanto, if you 24 know, in June of 1970? 25 A. I believe he was manager of applied sciences. 29 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006287 1 Q. How did that Was that a supervisory 2 position over you? 3 A. Well, I wasn't there in 1970. When I came in 4 1973, he was the second above me in command, yes. My boss 5 reported to Dr. Keller. 6 Q. Okay. The person writing this letter at 7 least appears to be J. G. Vos. Is that the person that 8 you had mentioned earlier who had done the initial work on 9 furan contamination in Aroclors? 10 A. Yes, it is. Well, in PCBs generally, not 11 specifically Aroclors. 12 Q. To your knowledge, was Dr. Vos's work the 13 first work done in that area? 14 A. It was certainly the first work reported in 15 the literature, yes, on chlorinated dibenzofurans in PCB 16 products. 17 Q. A number of the documents that I showed you 18 today contain Let me ask you that question. Do any of 19 the documents that I've shown you today contain your notes 20 that you went back to subsequent to your May of '87 21 deposition? 22 A. No, I do not believe they do. 23 MR. MURRAY: All right. I'll state on the 24 record that, Tom, I'm probably 90 percent sure I've got 25 those notes, but there's that ten percent doubt in my 30 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006288 1 mind, so I'd like to, if I can, go back and check, make 2 sure I've got them. If not, I'll ask for a copy of those 3 notes as well. 4 MR. CARNEY: These are Kaley's notes? 5 MR. MURRAY: Yes. 6 A. Well, they're not my notes. They're summary 7 sheets of analyses. 8 Q. (By Mr. Murray) And I seem to remember 9 seeing something like that, and that's why I'm saying I'm 10 90 percent sure I've got them. I don't know whose 11 handwriting they're in, but they are handwritten notes; 12 right? 13 A. Yes. In general I believe that's right, yes. 14 Q. Okay. I don't have them. I thought I had 15 them here, but I do not. A couple of general questions, 16 Dr. Kaley, to help me in my own mind understand the 17 chemistry of PCBs. I have read a lot and heard a lot of 18 testimony about congeners of PCBs. Can you give me a 19 layperson's explanation of what that is? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Tell me, please. 22 A. Okay. The term congener is of fairly recent 23 origin, and it's being used to describe a single member of 24 a class of related compounds. In other words, there are 25 209 different ways to put chlorine atoms on the biphenyl 31 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006289 molecule, depending on the number of chlorine atoms and the position of those atoms, and each one of those 209 unique chemicals is one of the congeners of PCBs. It's kind of like a chemical cousin kind of concept. Q. Well, if I've got a jar of PCBs sitting on the table A. Yes . Q. How do I know which congeners are in that j ar? A. You have to analyze them with a capillary column gas chromatograph Q- Would you expect the results of what congeners are in this jar to be different if I've got 1242 versus 1254? A. There will be some differences in the actual congeners present, and there will be differences in the amounts of congeners, of some of the congeners that are present in both, so the answer is yes and no. Q. Let me see if I can understand that. All right. I've got 1242 here and 1254 here. A. Yes . Q. Knowing the chemical properties of each one of these jars or the material contained in each of those jars, can you predict ahead of time which congeners are likely to be in which jars and which percentages? 32 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006290 A. Not specifically, no. I could have some general idea, but not specifically. Q. But it goes beyond something it goes beyond a random chance? A. It does go beyond random chance, yes. It's going to be dependent upon the physical chemistry of the process you use to make those materials. MR. CARNEY: He could probably do it to a 95 percent confidence Q. (By Mr. Murray) Is that true? A. No. Q. I didn't think. Do you have any understanding of the As you told me in general terms before, certain congeners of furans are more toxic than others. Is that same thing true with PCB congeners? A. Yes . Q. Seeing those two jars of one 1242 and one 1254, is there any way for you to predict which of those more highly toxic congeners would be in either one of those jars? You understand my question? A. Yes, I understand your question. The answer will get very convoluted because the toxicities differ by the end point of the toxicity. In other words, what are you calling a, what are you calling toxicity? Are you calling it the animal gets sick or the animal dies? And 33 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006291 1 it may vary, but for the end point that you're looking at. 2 I can go on from there, but it'll get more convoluted 3 rather than less. There's no easy answer to that 4 question. It depends on the particular toxicity you're 5 talking about. 6 Q. Would at least part of the answer be that 7 there are at least some of those more toxic congeners in 8 each one of those jars? 9 A. There may be varying amounts. Again, it's 10 hard to talk about toxic congeners without an end point in 11 mind. 12 Q. Are you saying that death versus harm? 13 A. Some illness well, or some specific, some 14 specific illness. 15 Q. All right. Some specific thing like 16 chloracne? I mean, is that something that you could take 17 and give me an answer about? 18 A. Well, I was more talking about animal 19 studies. With regard to chloracne in humans, I don't know 20 the answer to that. 21 Q. All right. Is it predictable as you are 22 making 12 Let's limit ourselves right now to 1242. Is 23 it predictable ahead of time in the manufacturing process 24 to know which congeners are going to come out of the end 25 batch? 34 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006292 A. To a certain extent. Q. You know generally that it's more likely to have an A congener versus a B congener? A. Well, let me try to explain. Q. Okay. A. Depending on the chlorination level, you will have some idea of the level of chlorination, in other words, how many chlorines are on the ring. You're going to have more chlorines per ring on average in Aroclor 1260 than you are in Aroclor 1242 because there's more chlorine in the process. So to that extent you know. You also know that it is more likely to get a biphenyl molecule with some chlorines on both rings rather than to get a biphenyl molecule where all the chlorines are on one ring and no chlorines on the other ring. So that to that extent, you can make some predictions. So there are, there are concepts which would allow you to kind of guess what the distribution might look like, but you wouldn't know with any specificity. Q. And in addition to the amount of any one particular congener varying from batch to batch, it also is true that the percentage of the higher chlorines versus the lower chlorines could vary from batch to batch? A. Well, we're talking about two different things now. Batch to batch means with a particular 35 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006293 1 product line. When you say batch to batch 2 Q. Yeah, I am. I'm sorry. I didn't mean batch 3 to batch. I'm talking about 4 A. Okay. Yes. 5 Q. I'm talking about 1242 versus 1254. 6 A. Right. 7 Q. And so even though they call this 1254, it's 8 actually a combination of various chlorinated atoms, some 9 being real high and some being low? 10 A. That's correct, right. 11 Q. And so the same is true with 1242? 12 A. Absolutely correct. 13 Q. And these 42 versus 54 numbers are actually 14 the averages sort of? 15 A. This is the average amount of chlorine on a 16 percentage weight basis in the molecule, that's exactly 17 correct. 18 Q. And is that same concept true with regard to 19 congeners? 20 A. Well 21 MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object to that 22 question because 23 MR. MURRAY: You don't understand the 24 concepts I m talking about? 25 MR. CARNEY: I don't understand it. If you 36 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006294 1 understand it. 2 A. Well, my answer was going to be no. 3 Q. (By Mr. Murray) It's not? 4 A. Because it doesn't A congener is a 5 specific PCB atom with a particular number and arrangement 6 of chlorine atoms around that I'm sorry chlorinated 7 biphenyl molecule, a specific number and arrangement of 8 chlorine atoms around that biphenyl molecule, so you can't 9 have a distribution of a congener. There may be A 10 congener may be present in either Aroclor 1254 or Aroclor 11 1242, or it may be present in both at some different 12 concentrations. 13 Q. Well, that's the point I'm making, though. 14 Is that 15 A. I'm glad I answered your question, whatever 16 it was. 17 Q. I think that's what I'm trying to understand. 18 A. Right. If you look at 19 Q. Is that any particular congener may or may 20 not be present in either 1242 or 1254 out of that group of 21 209? 22 A. Well, let me answer yes with the proviso that 23 if it's an Aroclor 1254 in one batch of 1242, the chances 24 are overwhelming that it'll be present in another batch of 25 Aroclor 1242. So within the product line, the congener is 37 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006295 1 relatively constant, but the products themselves will 2 differ, 1254 from 1242, on the amounts of any particular 3 congener. 4 Q. Has any work been done to determine what 5 specific congeners are in 1242 versus 1254? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. All right. 8 A. But not at Monsanto, but yes, it has been 9 reported in the literature. 10 Q. Okay. When was that work done? 11 A. It's been done probably since about 1985. 12 Q. All right. Would that have been the first 13 time that was done to your knowledge? 14 A. And reliably reportedin the literature, yes. 15 Q. Who did that work? 16 A. Oh, gosh. It's beendone by three or four 17 different groups. I'm trying to think. I think one 18 report is by a guy named There's a Japanese group that 19 has done it. I believe his name was Wakimoto, 20 Wakimoto. 21 MR. CARNEY: Safe. 22 A. Safe was involved in some work making the 23 standards, but I'm not sure he's actually done the 24 analyses. I believe some work's been done by Brian Bush 25 in the state of New York, Bush. There are a couple 38 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006296 1 other reports. 2 Q. (By Mr. Murray) Okay. And are those reports 3 consistent with the, with regard to the congeners found in 4 1242 versus 1254? 5 A. Not entirely. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. It's a very difficult analysis, and it 8 depends on lots of different things. 9 Q. But at least theoretically you would expect 10 that if one sample of 1242 has been measured to have these 11 congeners in it, that that would remain consistent through 12 all of the various batches of 1242? 13 A. Reasonably consistent. 14 Q. Right? 15 A. There may be some slight difference, but you 16 would expect it to be reasonably consistent, yes. 17 Q. Now, you were asked back in 1987 about 18 specific transformer fires that you were aware of, and you 19 talked about the Binghamton fire and the two fires in 20 Tulsa, Oklahoma and you think fires in maybe Chicago and 21 Miami. Since that '87 time period, have you become aware 22 of any other transformer fires? 23 A. I don't think transformer fires, no. 24 Q. Okay. Have you become aware of any other 25 fires of PCB dielectric fluids where they were involved 39 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006297 1 with the fires? 2 A. Well, I think I'm aware of another fire, and 3 I'm not sure of the circumstances, whether it was 4 dielectric fluids or not. I don't really recall. 5 Q. Can you tell me about that fire? 6 A. There was a fire at State University of New 7 York at New Phalz, I think. P h a 1 z, I think is how you 8 spell it. That's the only one I'm aware of. 9 Q. Where Were any measurements taken of 10 furans and dioxins after that fire? 11 A. I believe they were, yes. 12 Q. And were the results of those measurements 13 generally consistent with what had been found previously? 14 A. Yes, they were. 15 Q. Okay. Both furans and dioxins were found? 16 A. No, just furans, as I recall. 17 Q. Just furans? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. You would agree that in that Binghamton fire, 20 at least there were dioxins found in the suet? 21 A. Yes, there were. 22 Q. All right. And you're saying that in that 23 State fire, there were no dioxins found? 24 A. That's my recollection as Isit here today. 25 Q. But you're not sure whetherthat was, 40 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006298 1 certainly couldn't tell whether this was an Aroclor 2 product versus some other type of dielectric fluid? 3 A. I don't know as I sit here today. I don't 4 know whether that's been reported or not. 5 Q. We probably shouldn't have taken a break 6 because now I don't remember if I asked you this question 7 before, but let me ask it again because it's a short one. 8 I know we talked about Monsanto running particular tests 9 on any of this fluid with regard to looking for dioxin 10 contamination. Do you know whether or not any work 11 outside of Monsanto has been done to determine if any PCB 12 product is contaminated with dioxins? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And first of all, what were the results of 15 those tests or those studies? 16 A. No one who has looked has reported detection 17 of chlorinated dibenzofurans in Monsanto Aroclor products. 18 MR. CARNEY: You said dibenzofurans. 19 A. Did I say furans? Chlorinated dibenzodioxins 20 in Aroclor products. 21 Q. (By Mr. Murray) Do you know whether or not 22 any work has been done specifically on Inerteen PPO or any 23 other blend of Aroclors and trichlorobenzene? 24 A. My answer will go back to the reference I 25 made to the EPRI report. It's certainly possible in there 41 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006299 1 that one or more of those test samples was a blend of PCBs 2 and chlorobenzenes. As I sit here today, I'm not 3 positively sure. 4 Q. Okay. And now that you mentioned that 5 report, I know that I did ask you those questions already. 6 I apologize. All right. Based upon your work as well as 7 other people's work with regard to furan contamination, 8 would it be your opinion that those same levels of 9 contamination could be found generally in any batch of 10 1242 or 1254 that was made during the years that they were 11 made? 12 A. Okay. If I understand your question to be do 13 I believe that the levels that have been reported both 14 internally in Monsanto and externally by other researchers 15 are a fair representation of what may have been the 16 chlorinated dibenzofuran content of Monsanto Aroclor 17 products, it's my feeling, it's my opinion that those 18 numbers are representative, yes. 19 Q. Okay. Have you had an opportunity, 20 Dr. Kaley, to review the deposition that you gave in the 21 Scott case any time recently? 22 A. No, I have not. 23 Q. Okay. You are aware of the work that has 24 been done measuring PCDF contaminations in Kanaclor? 25 A. To some extent, yes. 42 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006300 1 Q. The specific work that was done on Kanechlor 2 never found anywhere near 5,000 parts per million 3 contamination, did it? 4 A. Not on unused Kanechlor fluid, no. 5 Q. Do you have any knowledge or any opinion as 6 to how the Yusho Kanechlor may have gotten contamination 7 that high? 8 A. I have an opinion, yes. 9 Q. What is that? 10 A. Well, it's my opinion that in a heat, in the 11 heat transfer system which apparently had a leak allowing 12 either air or oxygen in and being under thermal stress for 13 long periods of time, those levels of dibenzofurans were 14 created in the PCBs. 15 Q. You, as I remember your deposition, gave a 16 couple of windows, temperature windows wherein PCDF may be 17 created in the presence of oxygen and heat. 18 A. Okay. 19 Q. Do those windows still apply? 20 A. Yes. I don't know of anything that's changed 21 since 1987. I don'trecallspecifically what I said, 22 but 23 Q. It was one level at around 300 degrees 24 centigrade and another onearound six or 700. 25 A. That would be my testimony today depending, 43 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006301 1 and those depend on the conditions and those windows 2 differentiate the heat transfer application where you have 3 relatively low temperatures, around 300 degrees for 4 extended periods of time, days and weeks, in the case of 5 Yusho probably months or years, to allow those levels to 6 be created versus an incomplete combustion situation 7 around 650 degrees centigrade where you get creation of 8 low levels of dibenzofurans over a much shorter time 9 period, seconds or minutes probably. 10 Q. So the distinction between those two windows 11 would be that the lower window would require a much longer 12 period of time? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. To create the same level of contamination? 15 A. Well, in the incomplete combustion situation, 16 I don't think you get anywhere no one's ever reported 17 that you get anywhere near the level that, for instance, 18 was surmised in the Yusho incident, but basically your 19 statement is correct that it's a question of length of 20 time of exposure to heat over the difference in those two 21 time ranges. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. Excuse me. Those two temperature ranges. 24 MR. MURRAY: Dr. Kaley, I appreciate your 25 time, sir. That's all the questions I have. 44 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006302 1 2 3 4 5 of 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 WITNESS Subscribed and sworn to before me this ________________________, A. D., 1994. MY COMMISSION EXPIRES day NOTARY PUBLIC (SI Bechtold vs. Monsanto) 45 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006303 1 STATE OF MISSOURI 2 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON 3 I, SHEILA C. IRVIN, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and a duly commissioned Notary Public within and for the 4 State of Missouri, do hereby certify that there came before me at the offices of Husch & Eppenberger, 100 North 5 Broadway, St. Louis, Missouri, 6 DR. ROBERT KALEY, 7 who was by me first duly sworn to testify to the truth and nothing but the truth of all knowledge touching and 8 concerning the matters in controversy in this cause; that the witness was thereupon examined under oath and said 9 deposition is a true and correct record of the testimony given by the witness. 10 I further certify that I am neither attorney nor 11 counsel for nor related nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition is taken; further, 12 that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially 13 interested in this action. 14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and Seal this 13th day of June, A. D., 1994. 15 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES SEPTEMBER 26, 1996. 16 17 18 SHEILA C. IRVIN, Notary Public, within and 19 for the State of Missouri 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006304 47 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS STATE OF MISSOURI JUDITH BECHTOLD, wife of/and ) STEPHEN E. BECHTOLD, ELIZABETH ) TAMEWITZ, as Personal Representative ) of her deceased husband, KENNETH F. ) TAMEWITZ, KELLIE LEE TRISLER, as ) Personal Representative of her ) deceased mother, NINA TRISLER, ) PHYLLIS GOODMAN, as Personal ) Representative of her deceased ) husband, CHARLES GOODMAN, JR., ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. MONSANTO COMPANY and ) ) WESTINGHOUSE ELECTRIC CORPORATION, ) Defendants. ) ) ) Cause # 92200911 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER AND STATEMENT OF DEPOSITION CHARGES (Rule 57.03(g)(2)(a) & Sec. 492.590 RSMO 1985.) Deposition of DR. ROBERT KALEY, taken on June 6, 1994. Total number of pages: 49 Name and address of person having custody of the original transcript: Murray Law Firm 909 Poydras Street New Orleans, LA 70112 (XX) For signature: Reporting, Inc. transcript temporarily held at Waller TAXED IN FAVOR OF: C. Joseph Murray, Esq. Murray Law Firm 909 Poydras Street New Orleans, LA 70112 Orig & 1 cc Attendance Condensed ASCii Jurat COD/UPS TOTAL $151.. 90 30.. 00 15 .. 00 15 .. 00 1.. 00 10.. 00 $222 .. 90 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006305 TAXED IN FAVOR OF: Thomas M. Carney, Esq. Carbon copy $ 53. 90 3 Husch & Eppenberger Condensed 15. 00 100 N. Broadway ASCii 15. 00 4 St. Louis, MO 63101 TOTAL $ 83. 90 5 TAXED IN FAVOR OF: 6 Jeana D. McFerron, Esq. Carbon copy $ 53. 90 Lewis, Rice & Fingersh Delivery 3. 00 7 8182 Maryland Ave. Clayton, MO 63105 TOTAL $ 56. 90 8 Upon delivery of transcripts, the above charges had not been paid. It is anticipated that all charges will be 10 paid in the normal course of business. 11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal on June 13, 1994. 13 NoUary Public 14 My commission expires September 26, 1996. 15 16 17 WALLER REPORTING, INC. 18 515 Olive Street St. Louis, MO 63101 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 WALLER REPORTING, INC. 49 WALLER REPORTING, INC. 515 OLIVE STREET, SUITE 1506 ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63101 (314) 621 2571 June 13, 1994 Mr. Thomas M. Carney 100 N. Broadway Ste. 1300 St. Louis, MO 63102 Re: Bechtold vs. Monsanto Dear Mr. Carney: Enclosed please find a copy of Dr. Kaley's deposition transcript, correction sheets & original signature page. If errors are found in the transcription of the deposition, they should be noted on the correction sheet with page and line numbers indicated, how it should read, and reason for change (i.e., misspelled, clarification), noting at the top of the sheet the proper page numbers (i.e., page 1 of 1). If there are no corrections we would appreciate it being noted on the original signature page that no corrections were made. After review of the deposition and the noting of any changes, the original signature page should be signed before a notary and returned in the enclosed self addressed, stamped envelope along with any correction sheets. Please return the signature page and corrections promptly for forwarding to all parties and attachment to the original, which can then be filed with the Court in a timely manner. Absent hearing from you within 30 days or receipt of corrections, we will assume that you no longer desire the opportunity for review of the transcript, and the original will be filed. Please call if you have any questions. Sincerely, Sheila C. Irvin Enclosures cc 48 Kaley, Robert Ph.D BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006306 [& -a50] Transcript Word Index & 13th 3 6:00 & 46:14 3 2:14 2:14,21,24 46:4 47:13,22 15.00 11:10,15 12:13,13,14 26:18 60 48:3,6,25_________________ 47:23,23 48:3,3 3.00 23:1 0 006389 20:7 00911 1:11 2:9 47:8 019 11:14 02 1506 1:23 48:25 151.90 47:22 16.4 12:2 1970 16:17 17:5,9 25:9 29:24 30:3 48:6 30 48:25 30.00 47:22 300 43:23 44:3 3010 113 602 24:19 621 1:24 48:25 63101 1:24 48:4,18,25 63102 2:22 48:25 63105 24:19 1970s 037110 15:24 20:22,25 21:3 16:10 1971 068617 16:7 25:16____________________ 1972 1 16:7 30b6 4:8,11,17,21 314 1:24 48:25 33 21:16 2:24 48:7 650 44:7 7 7 11:10,15 12:13,13,14 1 1973 36 700 1:1 12:13 47:22 48:25,25 30:4 27:14 43:24 1.00 1974 38 70112 47:24 21:15 27:14 2:20 47:18,23 1.4 11:16 10.00 47:24 100 2:14,22 46:4 48:3,25 1975 15:15 25:22 1980 10:14 1980s 18:24 4 4 12:1326:18 400 23:4 75 21:15 76 15:15 8 106332 1982 42 8 27:25 10:14 14:16 36:13 11:10,15 12:13,13,14 114364 1985 49 8:00 9:25 38:11 47:13 47:15 48:25 2:14 12 1987 492.590 8182 29:5 34:22 5:1,3,6,18,20 6:23 13:18 47:13 2:24 48:7 1200 18:2 39:17 43:21 5 83.90 29:1,6 1994 5,000 48:4 1242 1:182:1445:5 46:1447:15 23:7,15,19 24:2,3,13 43:2 87 8:25 9:18,22 23:1 24:23 48:12,25 515 30:20 39:21 26:18,21,24 32:13,20 33:17 1996 1:23 48:18,25 9 34:22 35:10 36:5,11 37:11 46:15 48:14______________ 53.90 90 37:20,23,25 38:2,5 39:4,10 2 48:2,6 21:22 30:24 31:10 39:12 42:10 2 54 909 1254 11:10,15 12:13,13,1426:18 23:1 24:24 36:13 2:19 47:18,23 8:25 9:14,18,20 10:23 47:13 5400 922 11:14 13:25 14:13 24:23,24 209 28:25 29:8,11,15 1:11 2:9 47:8 29:4,5,6 32:14,20 33:18 31:25 32:2 37:21 5442 95 36:5,7 37:10,20,23 38:2,5 222.90 29:8 33:8 39:4 42:10 1260 10:23 24:23 35:9 13 8:17,18 48:12,25 1300 48:25 47:25 2571 1:24 48:25 26 46:15 48:14 56.90 48:7 57.03 47:13 6 6 1:182:1447:15 a.m. z.14 a40 10:25 a50 10:25 a Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006307 [able - bush] able analytical (cont.) aroclors 17:6 26:9 28:5 10:22 11:1 13:9,14 15:7 absent analyze 28:24 30:9,11 41:23 48:25 32:10 arrangement absolutely analyzed 37:5,7 36:12 17:21,22 ascii action analyzing 47:23 48:3 3:1746:11,13 23:22 asked actual animal 4:85:11 39:1741:6 23:25 32:15 33:25,25 34:18 aspect add anniston 4:7,20 11:23,24 21:11 assume added answer 48:25 12:1 3:24 4:1,4 32:18 33:21 34:3 assumed addendum 34:6,17,20 37:2,22 41:24 6:20 9:6 answered assumption addendums 37:15 24:25 8:23 answers atom addition 8:24 37:5 35:20 anticipated atoms additional 48:9 26:20 31:25 32:1,2 36:8 13:17 14:8 15:6 anticorrosive 37:6,8 address 22:18 attached 47:17 anybody 16:15 addressed 13:16 15:4,5 attachment 29:20 48:25 anyway 48:25 affairs 24:25 attempts 5:16 8:16 apologize 16:1725:11 age 42:6 attendance 3:10 apparently 47:22 agents 8:23 10:10 16:16 21:5 27:6 attorney 22:18 43:11 46:10,12 agree appear attorneys 40:19 25:23 8:9,10 agreed appears ave 3:1 25:16,19 29:20 30:7 48:7 agreement application avenue 3:6 44:2 2:24 ahead applied average 32:24 34:23 29:25 35:9 36:15 air apply averages 43:12 43:19 36:14 allow appreciate aware 35:17 44:5 44:24 48:25 3:21 39:18,21,24 40:2,8 allowing araclors 42:23 43:11 10:24 amount area 11:1824:10,11 35:20 36:15 30:13 amounts aroclor 32:17 34:9 38:2 8:25 9:14 13:25 14:13 analyses 15:11,20 16:18,24 21:7 16:16 22:4 31:7 38:24 24:24 26:4,11,17,21,24 analysis 28:6,25 29:1,6,8 35:9,10 28:13 39:7 37:10,10,23,25 41:1,17,20 analytical 42:16 12:24 13:5 16:5 18:1 25:22 b back 6:12 14:23 24:8 30:20 31:1 39:17 41:24 backwards OAR based 8 22 10 23 25 1 28 8 42 6 basically 6:12,20 7:3 9:12,16 13:24 23:18,21 24:9 25:24 27:20 basically (cont.) 44:18 basis 23:5,6 36:16 batch 34:25 35:21,21,23,23,25,25 36:1,1,2,3 37:23,24 42:9 batches 39:12 bee 16:9 20:6 27:25 becl14355 9:25 bechtold 1:5,5 2:3,4 45:23 47:2,3 48:25 behalf 1:182:173:11 believe 17:5 18:4 20:1621:1722:8 22:22 23:8 24:17,24 25:2 29:25 30:22 31:13 38:19,24 40:11 42:13 believed 9:2 benzene 18:7 best 5:9 20:20 beyond 33:3,4,5 binghamton 39:19 40:19 biphenyl 28:18 29:1,7 31:25 35:12 35:14 37:7,8 biphenyls 28:21 29:6 blend 18:5 22:12 41:23 42:1 boss 6:19 30:4 bottom 11:21 break 27:11 41:5 brian 38:24 britain 21:14 broadened 6:24 broadway 2:15,22 46:5 48:3,25 bush 38:24 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006308 [business - contents] business changed 48:10____________________ 43:20 c changes calculation 48:25 23:21 24:3,4,14 charge call 8:18 7:16 36:7 48:25 charges called 7:11 47:13 48:9,9 Charles calling 33:24,24,25 1:9 2:8 47:7 check calls 22:1931:1 21:21 capacitors chemical 18:6 32:4,22 8:3 chemicals capacity 7:12 32:3 5:15 chemist capillary 12:24 13:5 16:5 32:10 chemistry carbon 31:17 33:6 48:2,6 chemists career 25:22 5:21 Chicago carney 39:20 2:21 4:6,16 19:23 20:4 chloracne 27:16 31:4 33:8 36:21,25 34:16,19 38:21 41:18 48:2,25,25 chlorinated case 4:25 14:24 23:8 42:21 44:4 18:7 24:25 26:5,15 28:14 28:16 29:6,7,9 30:15 36:8 cattle 37:641:17,1942:16 14:13 cause chlorination 22:24 35:6,7 1:11 2:9,16 46:8 47:8 cc 47:22 48:25 chlorine 26:20 31:25 32:1 35:10 36:15 37:6,8 cdbfs chlorines 35:8,9,13,14,15,22,23 11:22 centigrade 43:24 44:7 chlorobenzenes 42:2 certain chlorodibenzofurans 2:16 33:14 35:1 20:12 26:3 27:19 certainly Christopher 12:4 17:9 26:9 30:14 41:1 41:25 10:8 chromatograph certificate 32:11 47:12 certified circuit 1:2 2:1,1647:1 2:15 3:4 46:3 certify 46:4,10 circumstances 40:3 city chance 33:4,5 1:2 2:1,1647:1 clarification chances 37:23 change 48:25 clarify 4:16 6:3 48:25 class 31:24 clayton 2:24 48:7 clear 4:2 8:22 clearly 17:21 cod 47:24 column 11:1432:11 combination 36:8 combustion 44:6,15 coming 26:2 command 30:4 commission 45:6 46:15 48:14 commissioned 46:3 company 1:122:1047:9 compilation 22:4 compilations 22:2 compiled 21:5 compliance 7:6 component 28:10 compounds 31:24 conceivable 19:1 concentrate 5:2 concentrations 26:25 37:12 concept 32:4 36:18 concepts 35:17 36:24 concerning 46:8 conclusion 28:8 condensed 47:23 48:3 conditions 44:1 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD conducted 10:16 confidence 33:9 confirm 25:17,24 confirmed 26:10 confused 9:16 congener 11:11 31:22 35:3,3,21 37:4 37:9,10,19,25 38:3 congeners 11:6 12:6,16 31:18 32:3,8 32:13,16,17,17,24 33:14,15 33:19 34:7,10,24 36:19 38:5 39:3,11 consent 3:7 consequences 4:11 consistent 14:3,6 19:1039:3,11,13,16 40:13 consistently 9:22 constant 38:1 constitute 26:10 consult 7:3,12,20,24 8:7 consumed 23:16 contain 30:18,19 contained 18:6 32:23 contaminant 18:18 contaminants 13:9 19:4 contaminated 41:12 contamination 9:1,4 13:14 15:11 16:23 17:6,15 18:12,14 20:3 28:9 30:9 41:10 42:7,9 43:3,6 44:14 contaminations 42:24 content 14:14 15:7 42:16 contents 14:1 17:23 WATER PCB-SD0000006309 [controversy - envelope] controversy defendants 46:8 1:132:123:2 47:11 convoluted degrees 33:22 34:2 43:23 44:3,7 copy delivery 15:4 19:18,22 31:2 48:2,6 48:6,9 48:25 department corporation 6:17,19,21,25 8:15 1:122:11 47:10 depend correct 17:24,25 44:1 7:8 9:8 10:17 13:6 17:2,3 dependent 22:10,11 23:13,18 25:18 33:6 26:16,1936:10,12,1744:19 depending 46:9 32:1 35:6 43:25 correction depends 22:17 48:25,25,25 34:4 39:8 corrections deponent 48:25,25,25,25 4:12 counsel deposed 3:2,2,7 46:11,12 3:18 county deposes 46:2 3:11 couple deposition 8:20 31:15 38:25 43:16 1:172:133:34:8,13,17,18 course 4:25 5:1 8:22,23 9:2,6 3:20 48:10 21:20 30:21 42:20 43:15 court 46:9,11 47:13,15 48:25,25 1:2 2:1,16 47:1 48:25 48:25 cousin describe 32:4 6:4 13:23 16:13 31:23 create described 44:14 24:5 created describing 43:14,17 44:6 16:15 creation designated 44:7 4:7 10:25 custody designation 47:17____________________ 12:4 18:4 d data 10:11 14:4 22:5 26:9,21 27:5 day 2:14 45:4 46:14 days 44:4 48:25 dear 48:25 death 34:12 deceased 1:6,8,9 2:5,6,7 47:4,5,6 decide 4:20 defendant 2:21,23 designations 10:23 11:9 24:18 desire 48:25 detect 16:17 17:6 detectable 17:15 detected 19:1528:17 detection 41:16 determinations 25:11 determine 18:12,1838:441:11 determined 26:5 determining distribution 15:7 35:18 37:9 dibenzo document 16:18 9:24 10:2,6,7 11:6 16:8,9 dibenzodioxins 16:12,13,14 20:5,6,7,9,10 15:2541:19 25:4,15,19 27:18,22,24 dibenzofuran 28:2 29:17 9:1 17:23 26:20 28:14,15 documents 42:16 9:3 27:10,1330:17,19 dibenzofurans doing 16:17 23:22 24:10 26:5,11 5:23,24 6:14 15:16 26:1528:1630:1541:17,18 doubt 43:13 44:8 30:25 dichlorodibenzofuran dr 26:22 1:173:9,14,164:24 10:8,11 dichotomy 10:15 15:1,24 16:3,4,14,16 4:10 17:2,14,22 21:18 22:8 25:9 dielectric 25:10 27:13 28:6 29:20 7:10 20:3 29:14 39:25 40:4 30:5,12 31:16 42:20 44:24 41:2 46:6 47:15 48:25 dies duly 33:25 3:10 46:3,7 differ duties 11:22 33:22 38:2 6:4,12 difference duty 9:11 39:15 44:20 6:6 differences e 17:23 32:15,16 different earlier 30:8 4:11 11:8 17:19,21 25:13 31:25 32:13 35:24 37:11 38:17 39:8 early 15:23 easy differentiate 5:5 44:2 34:3 either differently 9:7 15:22 33:19 37:10,20 43:12 electric difficult 1:122:11 18:2447:10 5:4 39:7 dioxin 15:10 16:23 17:6 18:12 electrical 18:25 elizabeth 19:1420:2 41:9 dioxins 15:19 16:18 18:18 40:20,23 41:12 40:10,15 1:5 2:4 47:3 employed 5:13,1546:11,12 employee director 4:18 29:21 46:12 5:16 discovered 21:18 discussing enclosed 48:25,25 enclosures 48:25 20:2 entirely discussion 4:15,23 14:22 39:5 entitled disposal 7:21 3:24 4:25 envelope distinction 29:4 44:10 48:25 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006310 [environmental - heard] environmental 5:16,23 6:7 7:4 8:16 eppenberger 2:14,22 46:4 48:3 epri 18:23 19:17,24,24 20:1 41:25 error 15:23 errors 48:25 esq 47:22 48:2,6 estimating 24:6 estimation 10:13 europe 25:10 exactly 36:16 examination 3:12 examined 2:13 46:8 exclusively 29:13 excuse 11:19 44:23 expanded 6:25 expect 32:12 39:9,16 expertise 8:1 expires 45:6 46:15 48:14 explain 3:24 17:14 35:4 explanation 3:25 4:1 31:19 exposure 44:20 extended 44:4 extent 8:5 17:5 35:1,11,16 42:25 externally 42:14 extrapolating 24:8____________________ f factors 17:24 fair 9:9,10 42:15 fairly forget glad 31:22 18:6 37:15 familiar forgotten go 29:18 9:13 4:22 27:12 31:1 33:5 34:2 far forwarding 41:24 11:6 48:25 goes favor found 33:3,3 47:21 48:2,5 14:6 16:1 19:4 26:4 39:3 going fda 40:13,15,20,23 42:9 43:2 4:2 5:2,11 9:24 13:7 14:5 26:2 48:25 16:9 21:4 27:1 33:6 34:24 feeding four 35:8 36:21 37:2 14:12,14,1721:2 24:15 38:16 good feeling fr 13:10 42:17 22:14 goodman file frame 1:8,9 2:7,8 47:6,7 9:13 10:14 15:1620:21 22:1,5 gosh filed framed 38:16 48:25,25 8:21 gotten finally fred 43:6 29:17 10:9 12:19 13:1,4 great financially front 21:14 46:12 9:3 greek find furan 11:12 17:15 48:25 13:13 15:7 17:15 18:14 group finding 20:2 23:25 28:9 30:9 42:7 6:7 37:20 38:18 9:12 26:10,22 27:7 furans groups fingersh 11:7 13:9 18:18 19:8,10 38:17 2:24 48:6 33:1440:10,15,16,1741:19 grown fire further 6:17 39:19 40:2,5,6,10,19,23 13:8 46:10,11 guess fires g 5:22 7:10,14 8:16 10:13 39:18,19,20,22,23,25 40:1 gas 13:10 15:20 17:1 20:15,20 firm 2:19,21,24 47:17,22 32:11 general 21:6,22 35:17 guy first 3:104:1 12:17 13:12 19:7 7:10 12:5,7 19:4,20 20:21 27:6 31:13,15 33:2,13 38:18 h 26:6 30:13,14 38:12 41:14 generally hand 46:7 five 17:7 21:1623:4,16 25:7 30:10 35:2 40:13 42:9 11:1646:1448:11 generic handling 15:11 7:21 fix 5:8 fluid 7:10 22:9 24:4 41:2,9 43:4 gentleman 7:22 gentlemen 10:9 handwriting 20:1831:11 handwritten 20:11 27:21 31:11 fluids georgia happened 18:25 19:1,5,13 20:3 29:14 39:25 40:4 focused 6:23 25:22 german 11:2 give 5:6,20 23:7 happy 3:23 hard follow 3:24,25 4:1 27:6 31:18 34:10 4:20 following 34:17 given harm 34:12 25:21 follows 5:1 46:9 giving health 6:7 3:11 26:8 heard 31:17 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006311 [hearing - limited] hearing incident 48:25 44:18 heat included 22:9 43:10,11,17 44:2,20 9:18 held incomplete 4:15,23 14:22 47:19 44:6,15 help increased 31:16 6:2 19:12 hepta's indentation 11:25 25:1 hereto indented 46:12 25:2 hereunto independent 46:14 48:11 10:15 hexa indicate 11:19 26:18 hexachlorodibenzofuran indicated 11:20 9:2 12:25 48:25 hexa's individual 11:25 4:9 high inerteen 36:9 43:7 18:3,5 19:1 41:22 higher information 9:15,17,20 35:22 6:8 10:1221:5 highly initial 33:19 13:13 30:8 hileman initiate 13:4 14:12 hint instance 26:6 11:1029:8 44:17 hold institute 20:19 18:24 huh intent 26:13 5:2 humans interested 34:19 46:13 husband internally 1:6,9 2:5,8 47:4,7 42:14 husch involved 2:14,21 46:4 48:3 38:22 39:25 involvement i.e. 48:25,25 idea 8:14 14:24 involving 7:12 33:2 35:7 irvin identify 10:1 16:10 20:8 25:5 27:16 illness 34:13,14 2:15 3:4 46:3,18 48:25 issues 6:8 7:12 it'll improve 34:2 37:24 17:11 _____________ J improved japanese 17:4,9 38:18 improvements jar 17:25 32:5,9,13 jars know (cont.) 32:23,24,25 33:17,20 34:8 31:10 32:8 34:19,24 35:2 jeana 35:11,12,1941:3,4,8,10,21 2:24 48:6 42:5 43:20 jefferson knowing 46:2 32:22 jim knowledge 20:18 12:7 15:5,6,8,13 18:3,10,13 joe 18:1524:1629:1630:12 3:16 4:6 38:13 43:5 46:7 joseph krummrich 2:19 47:22 21:11 jr 1:9 2:8 47:7 judith 1:5 2:3 47:2 june 1:18 2:14 29:24 46:14 47:15 48:12,25 jurat 47:24 k 1 la 47:18,23 labs 26:2 lady 4:2 largely 5:23 6:1,23 17:25 19:10 22:19 kl late 24:19 20:22,25 21:3 kaley law 1:173:9,14,164:17,24 15:1 2:19,21,24 47:17,22 27:13 31:16 42:20 44:24 lawful 46:6 47:15 3:10 kaley's layperson's 31:4 48:25 31:19 kanaclor leak 42:24 43:11 kanechlor leaked 23:4,9,14 43:1,4,6 23:11,1524:7 keep lee 4:10 12:10 1:7 2:5 47:4 keller left 16:15 29:21 30:5 11:6 kellie length 1:7 2:5 47:4 44:19 kenneth letter 1:6 2:5 47:4 29:20 30:6 kind level 5:6 6:14 32:4,4 35:17 9:23 23:15,16 24:22 35:6,7 kinds 43:23 44:14,17 7:18,23 levels klophen 9:14,17,20,22 17:15 18:18 11:1 19:7,10,12 22:18 23:22,23 know 42:8,13 43:13 44:5,8 3:20 5:7,8 7:17 10:9,19,20 lewis 10:21 11:4 12:3,5,17,25 2:24 48:6 13:1,2,11,16 14:2,8,13 15:9 limit 15:14,16 16:22,25 17:18 34:22 18:2,16,19,20 19:2 20:13 limited 20:16,21,24 21:1 22:6,25 14:24 15:20 23:1,2,19 24:22 29:24 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006312 [line - oil] line manufactures minutes nina 11:11,21 29:1,2,1036:1 6:10 44:9 1:8 2:6 47:5 37:25 48:25 manufacturing missouri non list 23:11 24:20 34:23 1:3 2:2,15,16,17,22,24 46:1 28:14 21:21 marked 46:4,5,19 47:1 48:25 normal listed 9:25 29:17 misspelled 48:10 21:7 26:17 maryland 48:25 north listing 2:24 48:7 mo 2:14,22 46:4 23:3 material 1:24 48:4,7,18,25 notary literature 14:14 28:13 29:10 32:23 molecule 2:15 3:4 45:9 46:3,18 48:13 19:11 30:15 38:9,14 materials 26:21 28:15 32:1 35:12,14 48:25 little 6:24 10:24,25 27:5 28:6,14 36:16 37:7,8 note 6:3 11:12,22 29:5,8 33:7 mon091303 20:11,21 long matters 29:18 noted 43:13 46:8 monsanto 48:25,25 longer mcferron 1:122:10,21 4:18 5:1,13,21 notes 6:9 22:5 44:11 48:25 2:24 48:6 6:9 7:4,15,20 8:1,4,8 10:12 10:3 12:18 27:21 30:19,25 look mean 10:18 12:24 13:5,16 15:2,5 31:3,4,6,11 11:1325:1727:15,25 35:18 34:16 36:2 15:6,10,19 16:5,18,23 18:3 noticed 37:18 means 18:11,17 22:4,14,21 24:16 4:17 looked 11:1224:1235:25 26:11 29:21,23 38:8 41:8 noting 7:25 13:24 15:19,25 18:25 measure 41:11,1742:14,1645:23 48:25,25 27:21 41:16 13:25 47:9 48:25 number looking measured monsanto's 16:9,10 20:6,7 21:22 22:23 16:23 28:13 34:1 41:9 24:4,9,10 26:5 39:10 16:1725:11 23:19 24:2,6,20 25:15,16 looks measurements months 26:20 27:25 30:17 32:1 12:1820:18 26:11 40:9,12 44:5 37:5,7 47:15 lot measuring mother numbered 24:20 31:17,17 26:15 42:24 1:8 2:6 47:5 11:9 27:13 lots meeting moved numbers 39:8 25:22 26:7 6:18 11:5 12:1 23:24 24:1,2,12 loud member murray 24:13,15 26:19 36:13 42:18 4:4 31:23 2:19,19 3:13,16 4:14,22,24 48:25,25 louis 1:2,24 2:1,15,16,22 46:5 47:1 48:4,18,25,25 louisiana 2:20 low 22:18 36:9 44:3,8 lower 35:23 44:11 m magnitude 17:8 making 15:1 20:20 21:6 34:22 37:13 38:22 management 5:25 6:2 manager 5:22 29:25 manner 48:25 manufacture 11:2 28:20,22,24 memo 14:21,23 19:24 20:2,5 o 28:4 mentioned 27:12,20 30:23 31:5,8 33:10 36:23 37:3 39:2 oath 468 30:8 42:4 41:21 44:24 47:17,22,22 object methodology 18:1 methods n name 3:16 18:6 38:1947:17 36:21 obtained 10:18 17:4 miami 39:21 michael named 38:18 near 43:2 44:17 obviously 9:3 occasions 7:11,19 8:2,7,9 12:22 13:22 necessary occurred mieure 16:3,4,16 17:2,14,22 21:18 22:8 25:9 28:6 mieure s 4:3 need 8:7 15:16 neither 5:5 octa's 12:1 October 20:18 46:10 17:5 million 9:5,23 11:14,16 12:2 17:7 netherlands 15:25 offices 2:14 46:4 21:23 23:4,15,17 27:2,8 43:2 new oh 2:19 38:25 40:6,7 47:18,23 38:16 mind 31:1,1634:11 newport 21:11,13 oil 22:3 23:3,12,16,22,23 24:7 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006313 [oil - provided] oil (cont.) paid percentages predict 24:7,10,11 48:9,10 32:25 32:24 33:18 okay papageorge period predictable 5:8,12 6:4 7:3,9 8:6,18 9:16 16:15 28:4 5:4 39:21 44:9,12 34:21,23 9:21,24 11:5 12:3 14:8,15 paper periods predictions 16:4 17:1,14 18:2,10 19:14 9:1321:19 43:13 44:4 35:16 19:18,23 20:4,15,23 21:15 para peripheral preparing 22:9,16 23:1 24:18,22 16:18 8:14 14:12 25:23 26:17 27:6,18,24 parent person presence 28:3 29:14 30:6 31:14,22 28:15 30:6,7 47:17 28:19 43:17 35:5 36:4 38:10 39:2,6,24 part personal present 40:15 42:4,12,19,23 43:18 4:17 9:23 13:7 34:6 1:6,7,8 2:4,6,7 47:3,5,6 11:1527:4 28:1032:16,18 44:22 particular phalz 37:10,11,20,24 Oklahoma 7:10 18:11,17 34:4 35:21 40:7 presentation 39:20 35:25 37:5,19 38:2 41:8 phenyls 10:10 olive parties 12:10 presented 1:23 48:18,25 46:11,12 48:25 phrase 10:11 ones partly 5:17 presumably 11:9 17:17 phyllis 10:24 one's parts 1:8 2:7 47:6 previous 44:16 9:4 11:14,16 12:2 17:7 physical 14:4 ooo 21:22 23:4,15,16 27:2,8 33:6 previously 3:8 28:10 43:2 places 25:12 29:19 40:13 opinion paul 21:6,7 primary 42:8,17 43:5,8,10 12:17,19,22 13:22 plaintiffs 6:6 opportunity pcb 1:10,182:9,17,19 3:2,11,17 probably 42:19 48:25 8:1 10:16 11:1 20:1222:12 47:8 6:25 7:25 13:10 16:7 30:24 opposed 23:8 24:7 26:6 30:15 33:15 plants 33:8 38:11 41:5 44:5,9 4:12 37:5 39:25 41:11 8:4 problems order pcbs plasticizers 5:7 17:8 6:23 7:9,21 8:8,14 22:12,15 29:13 procedures organization 22:19 23:23 24:11 27:19 please 7:5 7:25 28:10 30:10 31:17,18 32:3 31:21 48:25,25,25 process orig 32:5 42:1 43:14 point 23:11 24:21 28:7 33:7 47:22 pcdf 4:19 26:4 33:23 34:1,10 34:23 35:11 origin 14:1,14 42:24 43:16 37:13 produced 31:23 pcdfs polychlorinated 2:13 original 24:1 28:23 product 9:15 15:23 47:17 48:25,25 pending position 15:12,20 18:11,1722:21 48:25,25,25 2:16 29:23 30:2 32:2 23:8 28:17,18 29:1,2,4,9,10 Orleans pentachlorodibenzofuran positively 36:1 37:25 41:2,12 2:20 47:18,23 11:20 20:14 42:3 products outside pentachlorodibenzofurans possible 6:9 11:1 16:18,24 20:12 7:15 18:1741:11 12:11 18:1941:25 22:14,24 24:16 26:4,6,12 overwhelming pentachlorophenyls possibly 26:16 29:11 30:16 38:1 37:24 11:19 12:9 10:14,14 17:8,17 41:17,20 42:17 oxygen pentachloro's potential promotions 43:12,17 11:25 17:20 6:1 P p.m. 214 page 48 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 pages 47:15 people 5:25 6:2,13 7:1,4,16 8:15 people's 42:7 percent 24:25 30:24,25 31:10 33:9 percentage 35:22 36:16 power 18:24 poydras 2:1947:18,23 ppm 24:12 ppo 18:4 19:1 41:22 promptly 48:25 proper 48:25 properties 32:22 provided 15:3 19:21 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006314 [proviso - second] proviso receipt reporter 37:22 48:25 2:15 3:4 46:3 47:12 public recollection reporting 2:15 3:5 45:9 46:3,18 48:13 9:19 40:24 1:23 7:1,2 47:20 48:17,25 published reconstructed 48:25 14:19 19:16,17 9:5 reports pure record 7:22 39:1,2 22:12,14 4:2,14,15,22,23 14:21,22 represent put 14:23 15:2 30:24 46:9 3:17 31:25____________________ reference representation q 41:24 qualifications 28:18 quantitative referred 10:4 15:1 reflect 27:4 6:2 question 3:21 15:20 17:10 30:18 reflected 9:15 27:9 33:20,21 34:4 36:22 37:15 41:6 42:12 44:19 reflects 10:7 questions 3:13 8:10,13,20 31:1542:5 44:25 48:25 refound 21:19 regard quite 26:1______________________ 5:21 7:9 9:1 13:9 15:10 22:23 34:19 36:18 39:3 41:9 42:7 r regarding 42:15 representative 1:6,7,9 2:4,6,7 22:5 42:18 47:3,5,6 represented 2:19,21,23 reproduce 15:24 25:11 request 3:25 10:9 15:1 19:20,22 require 44:11 research 10:15 13:8 18:24 26:2 researcher 10:12 ran 7:4,20 8:8 13:13 researchers 8:25 13:13 18:3 regulations 42:14 random 7:5,6 resource 33:4,5 relate 6:6 range 6:9 7:14 8:2 responsibilities 9:5 21:15 27:8 related 6:3,20,22 7:23 ranges 8:139:1731:24 46:11 responsibility 44:21,23 relative 5:24 6:2,24 rappe 46:12 rest 10:8,11,15 relatively 27:12 ratio 12:15 26:9 38:1 44:3 result 24:11,12,13 reliably 19:11 24:3,4,13 ratioing 38:14 resulting 23:23 remain 23:16 reached 39:11 results 28:8 remember 9:14 14:2,19 17:19 19:3,9 read 6:11 9:1 12:12 15:18 19:3 20:12 21:25 22:3 25:23 3:6 31:17 48:25 31:841:6 43:15 26:2 32:12 40:12 41:14 real remembering retired 36:9 18:21 6:20 realize rephrase return 29:3 3:23 48:25 really report returned 12:12 40:4 16:16 19:17,25 25:8,9,13 48:25 reason 25:16,21 28:19 38:18 41:25 review 17:1821:1 48:25 42:5 42:20 48:25,25 reasonably reported reviewed 39:13,16 9:13 19:11 26:20 28:16 4:24 recall 30:5,14 38:9,14 41:4,16 rhesus 5:25 9:23 40:4,16 43:21 42:13 44:16 21:2 24:15 rice 2:24 23:11 24:7,10,11 48:6 right 3:145:106:157:9,18 11:3 12:10 15:4 16:22 18:8 19:9 20:25 22:6 23:6,25 25:2,3,7 25:14 26:1 27:4 28:12 29:3 30:23 31:12,13 32:20 34:15 34:21,22 36:6,10 37:18 38:7,12 39:14 40:18,22 42:6 ring 35:8,9,14,15 rings 35:13 robert 1:173:9 16:1446:6 47:15 rsmo 47:13 rule 47:13 running 41:8 s safe 38:21,22 safety 6:7 sample 17:24 39:10 samples 10:16,18 13:24,25 14:1 17:20,22,23 42:1 santowax 28:17,19,20 29:10 savage 28:5 saying 12:1023:1431:9 34:12 40:22 says 3:11 11:21 27:9 sciences 29:25 scm 16:1025:15 scm068517 25:5 scott 4:25 21:20 42:21 seal 46:14 48:12 sec 47:13 second 11:14 19:11 30:4 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006315 [seconds - test] seconds 44:9 seeing 31:9 33:17 seen 10:2 16:11,1220:9 25:6 28:2 29:19 self 48:25 seminar 25:20 September 46:15 48:14 series 28:25 29:4,6,7,8,11,15 serve 6:6 service 19:12 set 46:14 48:11 sheet 12:18 48:25,25 sheets 31:7 48:25,25 sheila 2:15 3:3 46:3,18 48:25 short 27:11 41:7 shorter 44:8 shorthand 2:15 3:3,4 46:3 show 9:24 16:8 17:19 20:5 25:4 showed 30:17 shown 30:19 shrunk 6:21,25 si 45:23 sick 33:25 sigma 11:12 signature 47:19 48:25,25,25,25 signed 3:6 48:25 signs 11:24 simply 3:23,25 sincerely ste sure (cont.) 48:25 48:25 40:3,25 42:3 single Stephen surmised 31:23 1:5 2:4 47:3 44:18 sir stipulated Sweden 3:18 4:5 5:19 10:5 44:25 3:1 10:8 sit str sworn 12:9 40:24 41:3 42:2 20:7 2:13 3:10 45:4 46:7 sitting str000068 system 32:5 27:13 43:11____________________ situation street t 44:6,15 six 43:24 1:23 2:19 47:18,23 48:18 48:25 stress table 32:6 taken slight 43:12 1:182:173:3 11:1727:11 17:22 39:15 somebody stroh 20:7 40:9 41:5 46:11 47:15 talk 7:20 8:7 somewhat studies 14:25 15:3 34:1941:15 5:3 8:10 13:7 19:7 26:8 34:10 9:14 sorry 36:2 37:6 study 14:12,17 19:4,1621:2,3 24:15 talked 25:1239:1941:8 talking sort 7:7,8 8:3 36:14 subject 13:11 8:24 15:15 16:19 18:5 21:2 22:23 28:15 34:5,18 35:24 source 8:1 specialty subjects 8:13 subscribed 36:3,5,24 tamewitz 1:6,7 2:4,5 47:3,4 12:4 specific 45:4 subsequent taxed 47:21 48:2,5 8:21 11:10 20:24 34:13,14 34:15 37:5,7 38:5 39:18 43:1 5:3 9:5 15:15 30:20 succeeded 21:19,19 25:9 tcdf 11:10 technical specifically 26:14 8:24 14:3 18:5,19,20 22:25 suet 5:23 6:3,8 8:12 tell 30:11 33:1,2 41:22 43:21 40:20 specificity suggested 3:105:20 9:11,17 12:8 20:10 25:7,19 27:14,25 35:19 26:3,21 31:21 40:5 41:1 spell 40:8 St suite 1:23 48:25 summarization temperature 43:16 44:23 temperatures 1:2,24 2:1,15,16,22 46:5 47:1 48:4,18,25,25 stamped 48:25 25:10 summarizing 16:16 20:11 25:8,20 28:5 summary 44:3 temporarily 47:19 ten standards 17:1 26:7 31:6 30:25 38:23 start 4:6 starting summation 11:12,23 summed 11:17 term 15:11 28:12 31:22 terms 12:5 19:4 33:13 28:6 29:5,10 supervisory terphenyl state 30:1 1:3 2:2,16,16 30:23 38:25 support 28:17,25 29:4,9 terphenyls 40:6,23 46:1,4,19 47:1 statement 5:23 sure 28:23 test 9:9 27:7 44:19 47:13 7:5 14:25 22:19 28:12 29:19 30:24 31:2,10 38:23 8:24 13:13 17:1842:1 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006316 [tested - work's] tested 22:20 testified 9:6 15:17 18:2 testify 46:7 testimony 4:11 6:11,169:2,15 15:18 15:22 31:18 43:25 46:9 testing 17:4,12 18:10,16 tests 13:17 17:12 18:3 25:12 28:9 41:8,15 tetrachlorodibenzofuran 11:11,1526:23 tetrachlorodibenzofurans 11:13,17 12:14 tetrachloro's 11:24 theoretically 39:9 thermal 43:12 therminol 21:22 22:7,9,14,20,24 thing 5:6 25:24 27:21,24 33:15 34:15 things 5:24 7:6,8,15,18 8:3 35:25 39:8 think 4:8 6:13,22 7:25 8:17,25 15:17 17:24 18:6 20:6,22 26:7 33:12 37:17 38:17,17 39:20,23 40:2,7,7 44:16 thomas 2:21 48:2,25 thought 12:11,1531:14 three 38:16 thrust 26:7 time 3:21 5:3,4,10,22 6:1,19,22 8:21 9:4,19 10:14 13:10 15:16,25 17:11 20:21 22:1 22:5 32:24 34:23 38:13 39:21 42:21 43:13 44:4,8 44:12,20,21,25 timely 48:25 timing 15:21 title true (cont.) vos's 5:16,1827:17 36:11,18 46:9 25:11 30:12 titled truth vs 27:18 3:10 46:7,7 1:11 2:9 45:23 47:8 48:25 today try w 5:2 6:5,16 13:8 30:18,19 35:4 wakimoto 40:24 41:3 42:2 43:25 trying 38:19 told 33:13 tom 37:17 38:17 tulsa 39:20 waller 1:23 47:19 48:17,25,25 want 16:9 19:21 30:24 top 10:24 11:1048:25 total type 41:2 typed 27:18,22 3:25 4:9,20 5:10 7:16 8:21 11:1327:15 wanted 14:13 11:21 12:2 47:15,25 48:4,7 typewriting waste toto 3:5__________ 5:10 11:17 u ways touching 46:7 understand 3:22 4:7 5:4 12:3 20:19 31:25 weak toxic 12:6,11,15 33:14,19 34:7 34:10 23:7 31:16 32:19 33:20,21 26:9 36:23,25 37:1,17 42:12 weeks understanding 44:4 toxicities 33:22 28:23 33:13 unique weight 36:16 toxicity 33:23,24 34:4 toxicologists 32:3 university 40:6 went 25:20 26:7 30:20 westinghouse 12:12 toxicology unused 43:4 1:122:11,2347:10 whereof 12:5 transcribed 3:5 ups 47:24 use 46:14 48:11 wife 1:5 2:3 47:2 transcript 3:6 47:17,19 48:25,25 7:5,16,21 8:3 19:12 33:7 william uses 16:15 28:4 transcription 48:25 7:14 usually window 44:11 transcripts 8:14_____________________ windows 48:9 transfer 22:9 43:11 44:2 transformer 39:18,22,23 transformers 8:2 transmitting 10:11 trichlorobenzene 41:23 trichlorodibenzofuran 26:23 trip 25:21 trisler 1:7,8 2:5,6 47:4,5 true 11:18 24:9 33:10,15 35:22 v 43:16,16,1944:1,10 vaguely witness 18:22 variety 2:13 3:7 4:9 45:2 46:8,9,14 48:11 6:8 18:25 various 11:5,6 36:8 39:12 vary wondering 8:6 words 7:15 31:24 33:23 35:8 34:1 35:23 work varying 34:9 35:21 version 27:22 6:148:15 10:7 13:11,12,18 13:19 14:9 15:7,10,16,23 15:24 16:2,3,6,19,22 17:2 18:23 21:16,17,18,25 22:6 versus 25:9 26:13 28:5 30:8,12,13 4:25 32:14 34:12 35:3,22 36:5,13 38:5 39:4 41:2 44:6 VOS 15:24 25:10 30:7 30:14 41:22 work's 38:24 38:4,10,15,22 41:10 42:6,7,23 43:1 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006317 [writing - yusho] writing 30:6 written 12:18 20:21 wrong 15:17 wrote 20:13 25:21 x XX 47:19 _____________ y________ yeah 36:2 year 14:24 20:24 years 42:10 44:5 york 38:25 40:7 yusho 22:3 23:3 43:6 44:5,18 Kaley, Robert Ph.D. BECHTOLD WATER PCB-SD0000006318