Document qbZ2xxvd2JQg6R1QJ14JqQ45

1 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS 2 LAKE COUNTY, OHIO 3 RUTH N. BURNHEIMER, Plaintiff 4 VERSUS 5 CASE NUMBER 91CV001653 JUDGE PARKS 6 UNIROYAL CHEMICAL CO., INC. : ET AL, 7 Defendants 8 ********************* 9 The deposition of RICHARD D. KOGLER, a witness 10 in this proceeding, was taken at the instance of the 11 Plaintiff herein, before and by Sharon S. Wendt, a 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of Louisiana 13 and a Registered Professional Reporter, at the offices 14 of Baton Rouge Court Reporters, located at 11832 15 Newcastle Drive, Suite 16, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, on 16 the 10th day of November, 1992, commencing at 17 11:15 a.m. and ending at 1:00 p.m. 18 19 APPEARANCES: 20 PETER J. BRODHEAD, ESQ. ) For the Plaintiff Spangenberg, Shibley, Traci & ) 21 Lancione ) 1500 National City Bank Bldg. ) 22 Cleveland, Ohio 44114 ) 23 VICTORIA L. VANCE, ESQ. Arter & Hadden 24 1100 Huntington Building Cleveland, Ohio 44115 25 ) For the Defendants, ) Borden, Inc. and ) Monochem, Inc. ) Baton Rouge ~Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001015 2 1 ANNE Y. KOESTER, ESQ. Bunda, Stutz & DeWitt 2 One SeaGate, Suite 650 Toledo, Ohio 43604 3 ) For the Defendant, ) Uniroyal Chemical ) Company, Inc. ) 4 5 INDEX 6 Page 7 STIPULATION 3 8 EXAMINATION BY: 9 MR. BRODHEAD.........................................................................................................4,71 10 MS. VANCE...................................................................................................................64,70 11 MS. KOESTER..................................................................................................................69 12 13 CERTIFICATE...........................................................................................................73 14 READ AND SIGN AFFIDAVIT.....................................................................74 15 16 17 18 Kogler 1 19 Kogler 2 20 Kogler 3 21 22 Kogler 4 23 LIST OF EXHIBITS Minutes of 1-13-70 meeting MCA Minutes of 1-14-70 Letter to Safety & Fire Protection Committee Occupational Health Committee from Mr. Stephenson dated 7-30-71 "Carcinogenic Effect of Vinyl Chloride" 24 25 Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonvUle Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001016 3 1 STIPULATION 2 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and among 3 the parties in the proceeding above numbered and 4 entitled that the testimony of RICHARD D. KOGLER, a 5 witness in this matter, shall be taken at the instance 6 of the Plaintiff herein, before and by Sharon S. Wendt, 7 a Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of 8 Louisiana and a Registered Professional Reporter, on 9 the 10th day of November, 1992, at the offices of Baton 10 Rouge Court Reporters, located at 11832 Newcastle 11 Drive, Suite 16, Baton Rouge, Louisiana; that the 12 witness shall be sworn by said Court Reporter so 13 reporting; that the testimony shall be taken under oral 14 examination reserving the right to make objections, 15 except as to the form of the question and the 16 responsiveness of the answer, until the time of the 17 trial of this matter; that the reading and signing of 18 the deposition are not waived by the parties and by the 19 witness; and that the said deposition is being taken 20 for discovery purposes and for any and all purposes 21 authorized under the Ohio Rules of Civil Procedure. 22 23 24 25 Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ' Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001017 4 1 RICHARD D. KOGLER, after having been first duly 2 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 3 EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 5Q Mr. Kogler, your full name and address, please. 6A Richard D. Kogler, K-o-g-l-e-r, 1555 Castlebury 7 Drive, Baton Rouge 70815. 8Q Mr. Kogler, can you tell me a little bit about g 10 ii A 12 13 14 15 16 your education beginning with high school and thereafter? Well, I graduated from high school in Syracuse, New York with what they call a regent's diploma degree. It*s a college entrance degree. I worked for a year or so. Then I went to Syracuse University, had two years in before the great war of the 1940`s. I came back out 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q 25 A of the service in 1945, the end of 1945, with a medical discharge from war wounds. I then went back to Syracuse. The first six months I took refreshing myself since I was away about three years and then finished up in 1948 with a B.S. degree in chemical engineering. *48? f48, June of '48. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001018 1Q 2A 3Q 4A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q 14 A 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 From Syracuse? Right. What didyou do thereafter, sir? The first job I had outof college was with Union Carbide at Institute, West Virginia. The job was a -- they call it an assistant department head, and I was responsible for the operation and manufacture of -- you want to write this down -- di 2-ethylhexylphthalate, which is a plasticizer used for vinyl chloride polymers. I stayed with Carbide about until 1952 . Then? Okay. At that point I decided I wanted out of operations. I wanted to see if I could do engineering work, do what I was trained to do, so I joined Allied Chemical at Syracuse, New York in the Solvay Division. I stayed with Allied, until 1968, in various capacities. I entered as a -- what you would call a project engineer and, eventually, I worked my way through. I got back into operations a couple of times as technical manager of a plant, technical superintendent. The last job I had was director of engineering for the Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001019 1 2q 3A 4 5 6 7 8Q 9A 10 11 Q 12 A 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q 23 A 24 25 6 division. Then the division -- in '68? That was in *68, yeah, when I finished; but during that period of time with Allied, about 1954, I was made project manager of a vinyl chloride monomer plant that was to be designed for Allied. The engineering work was done -- You were director? No. I was project manager. I was just a young -- This is in '54? About '54. I think I was with Allied about two years when they gave me the assignment. I finally relocated to a little town outside of Richmond, Virginia where Allied had their nitrogen division headquarters at Hopewell, Virginia; and using their Engineering Department, I took a purchasing agent, an instrument technician, and a few other people down with me, and we spent about a year and a half designing the operation. Monomer production? VCM monomer, yeah. The design of that plant is almost identical to the one at Monochem. That's the way it turned out. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001020 1Q 2A 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 In what way? Was it acetylene based? Right. That was back in '54. After the design was finished, I went to Moundsville, West Virginia, where the plant was to be erected, and supervised the construction. After that, I supervised the startup and operation of the plant. Then I stayed on as a technical superintendent of the plant for a couple of years and back to Syracuse to do engineering work again. About 1965 -- I'm guessing here; it*s close, *64, '65 -- I was a -- let me think of my title then. I was probably assistant director of engineering, and one of my responsibilities was to design another vinyl chloride plant. This one was ethylene based. We used the BF Goodrich technology. We used Badger out of Cambridge, Massachusetts. That was the engineering contractor. That plant was then completed in 1967, I believe -- it's in that neighborhood -- along with a fairly large chlorine plant because Solvay was chlorine oriented. They were a chlor-alkali company, and this was one way to upgrade their chlorine operations. 3aton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Tall Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g 10 Q ii A 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 The plant also had four gas turbine generators or co-generation plants that you hear about today. So we had an integrated operation. We had our own power, made our own chlorine. We bought the ethylene from one of the other divisions, and it was my job to come from Syracuse to Baton Rouge to put this all together after the engineering was finished, which X did. For whom? For Allied. About that time, the Solvay Division ceased to exist. The National Analine Division of Allied also ceased to exist, and their Nitrogen Division ceased to exist, and they combined them all into one division called Industrial Chemicals. So there were three directors of engineering available in one job, so I was the youngest guy on the totem pole, so I took the job in Baton Rouge, put this complex together; and the fellow that was in charge of combining all three engineering divisions took on the job as the director of engineering for Industrial Chemicals. So I stayed in Baton Rouge during the Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001022 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q 12 A 13 Q 14 A 15 16 17 Q 18 A 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 erection, startup, and eventually I stayed at the plant as the technical manager of the entire Baton Rouge works, which included not only this vinyl chloride, but the chlorine plant, power plant, soda ash plant. It was a major operation here at the time. Following that, I saw the handwriting on the wall that I wore a red hat, and the people running the company wore white, so I left Allied after seventeen, eighteen years. I'm not sure I understand that. Why? About the red hat and the white. Oh, well, I had red hats. That was me. I was with one division. The people that were running the new company -- Because of the merger? --were all in anotherdivision, and, believe me, it really didn't make much difference how capable you were as I saw later. See, in Syracuse I had a group of a hundred and sixtyfive engineers working for me, and I was asked to transfer ten of those engineers to the Morristown operation, which is a key for Allied, and then discharge the other hundred Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001023 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q 12 A 13 Q 14 A 15 Q 16 A 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 and fifty-five, which is kind of a tough job, so you can see they didn't want the people from our group very much. So I took this job in Baton Rouge to put together the new VCM plant because I knew quite a bit about VCM at the time. And then when that was finished, I thought, well, okay, what next? There really wasn't too much left, so then I left, and I went to Great Lakes Chemical in El Dorado, Arkansas. This is about late '67, early '68? That was in '68 as I remember. The location one more time? El Dorado, Arkansas. Great Lakes Chemical? Um-hum. This was a bromine operation, and how I fit there was there was a group of chemicals, if you know anything about chemistry, called halogen chemicals, halide chemicals, chlorine, bromine, iodine, et cetera. Well, bromine was next to chlorine, I guess, so they figured I knew a little bit about bromine. Well, I really didn't, but the technology is pretty much the same. So I stayed up there as plant manager of this operation for about a year. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ... Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonvUle Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001024 11 1 My family was living in Baton Rouge, 2 and X got into -- I didn't get into this but 3 the State of Arkansas and the people got into a 4 fairly significant integration problem up there 5 with the colored folks, blacks, and my wife 6 wouldn't move. I can't say that I blame her 7 any because X had three kids in school, high 8 school. One was in college. He was at the g University of Miami, and the other two were in 10 high school. ii So we decided that I would have to 12 leave this job. It was a good job, too. It 13 paid well and I enjoyed it. And so X went out 14 on the open market, and about that time, Borden 15 was looking for someone to take care of their 16 interest at Monochem. They told me they were 17 looking for someone that knew VCM, which I did, 18 and had management background, operations and 19 so forth. 20 So I interviewed with John Lynn and a 21 fellow named Dick Moffit, who I think was one 22 of the members of the Monochem board at the 23 time, and I guess after a couple of interviews, 24 they hired me as their production manager at 25 Monochem. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001025 1Q 2A 3Q 4A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 Who hired you? John Lynn. To work for what company? Borden. I was on the Borden payroll. I had the Borden benefits. I was a Borden employee, simply that, and I was told I would be over there perhaps a couple of years or whatever to look out for the Borden interest at the plant. There was sort of, as I was told, an unwritten agreement that -- or arrangement or whatever that if the -- let's say the plant manager or the vice-president of operations was a Uniroyal employee, then that the production manager should be a Borden employee. Well, Bill Boyne was the Borden plant manager before he was moved to Columbus, and Jack Little took over Bill Boyne's job as plant manager. That meant that Jack, who was production manager, had to be replaced, so they had to find a Borden employee. Well, Borden had no employee that I know of, at the time, that knew anything at all about VCM. All of their knowledge came through what they acquired at Uniroyal. So, apparently, that's why they liked my Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001026 1 2 3 4 5 6Q 7A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 IB 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q 25 A 13 credentials, and they hired me. So I stayed over there from October of 1969, if I remember, to about May of *71, about a year and a half, watching the production unit for Borden. And what did the production unit produce? Well, the first thing we had was a major utility plant. We had steam generation, took in water from the river, clarified it so it was usable for processes, had portable water for drinking. These materials I'm talking about now were fed to both Uniroyal and to Monochem and to Borden, see. Beside the utilities plant, there was air compressors for plant air, and the Operations Department per se, it started out with a -- they had a pair of twin oxygen plants that produced gaseous oxygen, no liquid, and nitrogen. Nitrogen was again pumped into the grid freeze by any one of the partners, an acetylene plant that was technology purchased from BSAF, German, a VCM plant, which was technology acquired from Uniroyal. Which technology? Uniroyal's. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Jrec. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001027 1Q 2A 3 4 5 6 7 8 9Q 10 A 11 12 13 Q 14 A 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 Which technology? Oh, acetylene based. All this happened long before I joined Monochem. My job was to oversee the operation of those facilities. In 1960 -- I'm sorry, let me back up. In 1971, in May, I left there and returned to Borden per se as their general production manager. Now, at this point -In Baton Rouge? Baton Rouge, at Geismar, right next to the Monochem plant. I just went across the fence and had a new office over there. Did your job de facto change? Oh, yes, definitely, because I now was no longer involved in VCM, and my major responsibilities, on the Borden operation, was two methanol plants. Those are what we call high pressure plants. There was an acetic acid plant, an ammonia plant, a urea plant, vinyl acetate plant. I held that job as general production manager for a number of years, and I went through a number of job title changes but worked my way up and eventually became vice-president of engineering. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001028 1Q 2A 3 4 5 6Q 7A 8 9 10 Q 11 A 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 For Borden? For Borden; vice-president of engineering, construction, and planning. And during that period, I designed or oversaw the design of another vinyl chloride plant. Which one was that? This time it was on Borden's site. It was technology purchased from Stauffer, ethylene based. In Geismar? Geismar, right. The onlyinterconnection at the time -- let's say during this period of when I was in operations now, not in engineering as such at the Borden site -- was with Monochem. As far as I was concerned, my responsibilities or duties was to see that we were getting the proper quantities of acetylene off-gas, which was owned by Borden, that we also received a certain percentage of the acetylene, which we used to make vinyl acetate, and that we had the utilities that they were supplying to the Borden site. I don't recall any contact, after I left Monochem, with their vinyl chloride plant Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001029 1 2 3 4 5Q 6A 7 8 9Q 10 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 15 16 17 18 A 19 20 Q 21 A 22 23 24 25 16 at all because there was no -- there was just no need for that. I wasn't involved in that anymore. I was trying to make methanol and some of these other petrochemicals. For Borden? For Borden. Then I retired in March of 1986, and the last job was vice-president, as I said, of engineering, construction, and planning. I'm a little unclear as to specifically what was your date of hire for Borden. October 1969. And you went across the fence in May of '71? Right, for about a year and a half. And then you were involved in the new venture. You said you went across for about a year and a half in May of '71. Where did you go after that year and a half period? Went back -- went to Borden as their general production manager. But you had nothing more to dowithMonochem? I told you what I had to do withthem. At the Borden site, not only was Borden's interest in Monochem VCM, they also were interested in the acetylene off-gas, which is used to make methanol, some of the acetylene which is used Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ... Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001030 1 2 3 4 5 6Q 7A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q 15 A 16 Q 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 A 22 Q 23 A 24 25 17 to.make vinyl acetate, water, steam, you know, the utilities. So there was constant talking back and forth between the two plants, but as far as the VCM, there was nothing more at that point. Did you ever draw a paycheck from Monochem? I'm not sure whether my paycheck was on a Monochem system or was on Borden's system, but my benefits were all Borden's, and X know that -- I'm going to have to guess here. If I was paid on a Monochem check, then it would be billed back to Borden. I know that my incentives, my bonuses, were paid -- By Borden? -- by Borden to me. Did you work closely, at anytime, with Jack Little? Yeah. I had to. He was the boss. To your knowledge, was he ever employed by Monochem? , When was he employed? Was he ever employed by Monochem? I don't think so. There were three employees of Uniroyal at the time as I remember. I'm not sure this is exact, but we had a fellow named Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ' Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToUFree Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001031 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 15 Q 16 17 A 18 19 20 21 22 Q 23 A 24 Q 25 A 18 Thudium who was our Comptroller. I believe he was a Uniroyal employee. We had Jerry Braun, who was the superintendent of the vinyl chloride plant, and Jack Little. The only other, as I remember, outside employee was me from Borden; and the rest of the people, I believe, were all hired specifically as Monochem and on the Monochem benefit programs, et cetera. Who did Jerry Braun work for? He worked for me. Worked for Borden? No, he worked for me. He was a Uniroyal employee, but he reported to me. I see. So Thudium and Braun were both Uniroyal employees? Yeah. Again, I don't know how they were paid, but I know that Jerry Braun told me he came down from somewhere up north, probably the Cleveland operation, the PVC plant, to help start up the VCM operation. Braun did? I think that's what hetold me. Do you know where Braun isnow? I think Jerry may have died. He had diabetes Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DoncUdsonvitte Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001032 1 2 3 4 5 6Q 7 8A 9Q 10 A 11 Q 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 A 22 Q 23 24 A 25 Q 19 real bad, and the last time I saw Jerry was when I -- not when I left Monochem to go back to the Borden site, but sometime maybe five or so years after that I'd run across him occasionally. He used to live in Baton Rouge. In any event, Jack Little, to your knowledge, was always a Borden employee? Jack Little was never a Borden employee. He was a Uniroyal employee? He was Uniroyal. Thank you. I got you. So what you're saying is Thudium, Braun, and Little were all Uniroyal? Yeah. And the rest, except for this -- except for perhaps you, who may have been always a Borden employee -- I always was. I was never anything else. You're not sure whether you ever drew a Monochem paycheck? Well, 1 don't think that's important, though. Whether or not it's important, thequestion remains the same. You're not sure? I'm not sure of what? Whether or not you ever drew a Monochem Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001033 1 2A 3 4Q 5A 6Q 7 8A 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q 20 A 21 Q 22 23 24 A 25 20 paycheck. X would have to go back and -- I could check ray pay stubs if you want me to go look. I'm just asking you -- I don't remember honestly. Okay. You're not sure. Do you know where Jack Little is? Well, I can tell you that about a year and a half ago, the superintendent of the acetylene plant of Monochem died, and I called Jack Little at his home in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi and told him about it, because he knew this fellow pretty well, and asked him if he would like to come to the funeral and so forth, and he said he would see what he could do. That's the last X talked to Jack. I don't know whether he is still over there. even know his address. I don't Who was the superintendent? Owen Martin. Did you ever have any dealings with or membership in the Manufacturing Chemists Association? Yeah. X attended one meeting in Washington, D.C. as Jack's delegate. Hehad been handling Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ' . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1S00-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q 18 A 19 20 21 22 Q 23 24 A 25 Q 21 some work with MCA. In fact, as I remember, I joined them in October, and Jack went to, I think it was New Orleans, in November or something, to one of the subcommittee meetings; and then there was another meeting, a follow-up meeting, sometime early the next year that he wasn't able to go to, and he asked me to attend it for him, and it was up in Washington at their offices. That was the only meeting I ever attended with MCA. It was on tank car safety, and it had to do with how to prevent safety valves from leaking if a car should tip over or if they are leaking in transit because they were improperly put on and what could the industry do about this. What committee was Jack on? Don't ask me that. I can say there was a subcommittee on tank cars. That had to be the one because I was there on his behalf at one of the meetings. Would that be the TransportationEquipment Committee? Probably. Is it your understanding that all of the VCM Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. .. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToU Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001035 t 2 3A 4Q 5 6A 7 8 9Q 10 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 15 16 17 18 Q 19 20 21 22 23 24 A 25 22 manufactured by Monochem went either to Uniroyal's Painesville facility or to Borden? As far as I know, it did. Have you ever been to Uniroyal's Painesville facility? No. I don't even know where it is. I've been to the two Borden facilities. There's one in Leominster, Mass, and one in Illiopolis. Were you there while they were -- were you there before you went over the fence to Borden? No. It was after? I visited these plants after Ireturned to Borden and during the design of our Borden's PVC plant which they now have at Geismar. I got involved in it a little bit there. I didn't know anything much about PVC. I'm showing you what's beenmarked asVariani Exhibit 9. That is the Chemical Safety Data Sheet for vinyl chloride, revised 1972. My question to you, sir, is, did you have anything to do, in any way whatsoever, with the formulation of that? Not to my knowledge. We had this -- there was an earlier sheet that we used when I was at Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToU Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001036 1 2 3 4 5 6Q 7 8A 9Q 10 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q 22 23 A 24 25 23 Monochem dated 1950 something as I remember. These sheets were used by the Operation Department and design people as the area, I guess, on VCM, but I had nothing to do with putting this -- the package together. I'm showing you what's been marked Exhibit 5. Is that the 1954 document? It says it is, yes. Now, was that a document that was referred to as a reference point at Monochem? Urn-hum. Who would have referred to that? Well, I think anyone in the plant that was interested in vinyl chloride: laboratory people, maintenance people that had to get into equipment, operations people. It was the only sheet I knew that existed at the time with any safety information on it about vinyl chloride. It was our source of information except for that we were getting from Uniroyal's agreement. What were you getting, in the way of information, from Uniroyal? The only thing I got from Uniroyal was through Jack Little, see. Jack had the contact with the people up in Connecticut, and he'd talk Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001037 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A 22 23 24 25 24 with them, write to them, and I never corresponded with any of the people up there. The only person I knew up there was Gordon Anderson who, I think, was one of the members of the board at Monochem. I met Gordon when I was hired. I had to be interviewed by him to make certain I was acceptable to the other partner. And then Gordon would visit the plant from time to time, and he would meet with Jack, and sometimes he would meet with the staff, and I was one of the members of the staff. Hr. Kogler, at any time when you moved over to Borden or when you were on the Monochem side of the fence or even when you were back on the Borden side of the fence as you put it, did you have anything to do with the formulation of labels or warnings or information that would accompany the shipment of VCM out of the Monochem plant? I didn't have anything to do with that at all at Monochem because I don't think we ever did anything like that. The material was going to the two owners. If it was being sent out, it would probably had to have been sent out -- I'm Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-300-375-7906 ToUFree Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001038 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 25 going to guess here -- by the laboratory because, normally, when a shipment is made -- 1*111 going now to my days with Allied and again with Borden -- the laboratory analyzes these tank cars, and they then prepare a certified laboratory sheet which the chief chemist signs; and they send it ahead of the shipment so that the receiving party doesn't have to take the time to go through a lengthy analysis of whatever the commodity is. Now, as far as I can recall at Monochem, we never did that at all. If it was done, I didn't know about it; and if it was done, it probably would have had to have been done by Dick Crawford, the laboratory's chief chemist there. The laboratory involvement with the shipments I'm unclear on. Can you explain that for me? Did they send some sort of certification along with the rail cars, or how did that work? MS. VANCE: You're talking about your Allied days or Monochem? That might help to clarify. THE WITNESS: Well, they are both the same pretty much, but let's stick with 3aton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToU Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001039 26 1 Monochem. How is that? 2 MR. BRODHEAD: Fine. 3A 4 I think the way it worked is when material was produced at the plant, it would be sent out 5 into a storage tank. The plant had a number of 6 tanks. The material in those tanks was owned 7 by the two owners in some proportion based on 8 some allocations that I think you're aware of. 9 When a tank was filled, it was then 10 sampled, circulated through pumping, sampled by 11 the laboratory. They would then run through a 12 complete specification of what the product was 13 to be sold at. The specifications, as I 14 recall, were those that were generally accepted 15 by the industry at the time. All manufacturers 16 of VCM were trying to meet the same set of 17 specifications. 18 X have to make the assumption, at 19 this point, that Crawford then would label that 20 tank 105 or whatever it is. Six of those tank 21 cars that were loaded, let's say, came out of 22 tank 105, and he would give that tank car all 23 those analyses, and he would make up a data 24 sheet on them or analysis sheet. 25 BY MR. BRODHEAD: Salon Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toil Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001040 1Q 2 3 4A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 How was that transported? I guess you hypothesize that it might have been sent in advance? I'm not sure. You could stick it in the mail and mail it to the people up there. Now, I do know that most good chemical people would not unload a tank car until they received a sheet and was absolutely certain everything was right on it. If they questioned anything, they would resample the car themselves and verify it. MS. VANCE: Mr. Kogler, I'm just going to interject and -- THE WITNESS: Sure. MS. VANCE: -- caution -- and I think you're understanding this, but we're asking here for your information that you know about in terms of the Monochem operation versus Allied or anybody else in the industry and to the extent anything was done differently at Monochem. That's what we're trying to focus on is the Monochem operations. If you're not sure or if it was outside of your purview or your bailiwick of responsibility, we will find out who are those responsible individuals and question them. 3aton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001041 28 1 THE WITNESS: All right. Then I 2 think you better talk to someone in the 3 laboratory then. 4 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 5Q Like Dick Crawford? 6A Yeah. I would think -- 7Q What's he doing? Do you know? aA No, I don't. 9Q Do you know W. D. Harris? Dr. Harris? 10 A ii Q No, I do not. Before coming to Borden or Monochem, did you 12 have any experience with what the threshold 13 limit values were for VCM? 14 A 15 Well, we used this 1954 sheet at Allied. 500 parts per million limit. The 16 Q 17 A 18 Q 19 A 20 21 22 Q 23 A 24 Q 25 Was that monitored at Allied? As I recall, it was, yeah. What kind of instrumentation was used? You're stretching me. I'm not sure. I can only give you an estimate of what I think it might have been. Give me your best recollection. Probably gas chromatography. The threshold limit value of 500? Do you know what its origins were, sir? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsotwille Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001042 1A 2Q 3 4 5A 6Q 7 8A 9 10 Q 11 12 A 13 Q 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 19 A 20 21 Q 22 A 23 Q 24 25 29 No, I don't. Did you have any experience with the ACGIH, the American Conference of Government and Industrial Hygienists? I've never even heard of them. In any event, your first experience with monomer production was apparently in 1954? It was shortly after the plant was built. would say '55, around in there. I That would coincide with the effective date of Exhibit 5, which is 1954, correct? Um-hum. Were you utilizing that sheet at Allied Chemical? I think so, as Iremember. Carrying it forward, for how many years thereafter was that sheet still in use, to the extent you know, at Monochem? Well, it was in use when I was at Monochem. Beyond my time there, I can't tell you. But at least until '69 -- excuse me -- *71? '71, yeah. There are a couple of documents that have your name on them, Mr. Kogler, and I would like to ask you a couple of questions about them. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToUFree Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001043 1A 2Q 3 4 5 6 7A 8Q 9 10 A 11 Q 12 13 A 14 Q 15 16 17 A 18 19 20 21 Q 22 A 23 24 25 30 Okay. I'm showing you what's been marked Exhibit 1 for the purposes of this deposition. That is minutes of a January 13th, 1970 meeting entitled Task Group MBM on Vinyl Chloride MonomerTransporationSafety. Is that correct? Yes. And that was a meetingwhich you, apparently, attended for Mr. Little -- Right. -- in Washington, and that's the one to which you referred previously? Right. Do you recall, at that meeting, as to whether or not there was any discussion as to the potential carcinogenicity of vinyl chloride? Well, I don't think so. I don't remember, but it would seem to me that if there was, I would have remembered it, and I don't recall that ever having come up. You don't recall this? No. This was strictly a meeting to discuss relief valves, that part that Iwas involved in. Jack Little had worked on this committee prior to this, had developed some drawings. I Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001044 1 2 3Q 4A 5 6Q 7 8 9A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q 19 A 20 21 22 23 Q 24 25 A 31 took the drawings with me, and they were reviewed by this committee. I'm showing you Variani Exhibit 8. Yes. That was the drawings that were developed early on. And this was for the purposes of sharing it with the MCA committee on transportation safety? Yeah. I think they were trying to develop a universal gag, if you would, on relief valves, should they leak in transit, that would fit all tank cars. And somehow -- I don't know how this happened, but Jack, apparently, must have agreed to work on the committee and help develop a drawing, and there were two drawings as I recall. (Witness reviews document.) Yeah, there is the other part of it, right. They are both there on Exhibit 8? Yeah. And I picked these up back in -- when was it, January, we had the meeting? Yeah -- and took Jack's work up there and discussed it with these people. Why was this safety valve emergency closure a matter of such concern? Well, I can't tell you that. I was just Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand, Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001045 1 2 3 4Q 5A 6 7 8Q 9 10 11 12 13 14 A 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 sitting for Jack in the meeting, but I would have presumed that because of prior accidents on the railroad -- rail line with VCM. Were there a number of accidents? It's a matter of record. I can't tell you, from memory, what they were, but I'm sure they are all documented. It's my understanding that in a three-year period, from 1971 to '74, there were sixteen reported rail accidents involving vinyl chloride tank cars. Assuming that to be true for the sake of my question, was this an effort to reduce spillage? Well, yeah, I think so. It was not only from an accident standpoint, but suppose you had a relief valve on a tank car that was leaking when the car left the loading site and somebody in the rail yard smelled it, or it got jerked or humped, you know, the cars how they get humped sometimes. It could jar a bolt loose. And this was the intent, to stop that as best they could. As I recall, Jack started these drawings. I picked them up, and then we were supposed to, at Monochem, make a model of this Baton Rouge Court Reporters9 Inc, Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001046 1 2Q 3A 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q 16 17 18 19 20 21 A 22 Q 23 A 24 Q 25 33 and submit it to the group for approval. Was that eventually done? I wish you hadn't asked me that because I don't remember. I'm not sure. I don't know. It may have been done after I left. I do know that we did revise the drawings at the plant because after we took the comments from the committee, I brought them back to the plant, and then Jerry Braun and Ramirez, the loading foreman, reviewed them and made some suggestions on it. After that, I don't recall having any further contact with that committee. Jack must have picked it up from there. I just don't remember. The minutes of the meeting reflected in Exhibit 1 indicate that the recommendations made at this particular meeting which you attended were recommended to be incorporated into the revision of the Chemical Safety Data Sheet/ is that correct? I would have to read the thing. I don't know. Please look at number eleven. (Witness reviews document.) The question, sir, was merely whether or not it was recommended that they be incorporated, not Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonvRle Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001047 1 2A 3 4Q 5 6 7A 8 g 10 ii Q 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 A 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 that they, in fact, were. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, it says here it was recommended. Was it your understanding, at that time, that there was underway a project to reformulate the safety data sheet for -- No, it was not because I didn't know they were going to make any revisions. I went to the meeting specifically for a tank car relief valve presentation. Other than Jack Little, who, to your knowledge, participated at all in the Manufacturing Chemists Association for Monochem? For Monochem? Yes, or on behalf of Monochem. I don't think there would've been anyone else because we had a very small staff there, and if you think about who the key people were at the plant, you had Jack, who was director or VP of operations. You had myself in manufacturing. You had Sid Evans in maintenance. He wouldn't have been on it. You had a chemist, and he certainly wouldn't have been on it. And Thudium was the Comptroller, and that's it. That's the group. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toil Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001048 1Q 2 3A 4 5 6 7 8Q 9 10 A 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q 19 20 21 22 23 24 A 25 Q 35 Did Borden have anyone who was involved in the MCA? If they did, I didn't know about it. The only person that might have -- not the only one, but if there was one, it might have been Bill Boyne, but I would say it would be very highly unlikely, though, because -- How about Uniroyal? Please go ahead and answer, I was going to say because, at the time, we are now, remember, in Monochem time here, in the sixties, early seventies. Borden had no VCM technology at Columbus. All we had was, you know, bought through the technical agreement with Uniroyal. So I just don't think Borden would have anyone on that committee or on the group. There again, I don't know. I'm showing you what's been marked Exhibit 2. It's a January 14th, 1970 document, on MCA stationery, indicating the Safety and Fire Protection Committee Conference of Technical Representatives of VCM Manufacturers, Washington, D. C., correct? Yeah. That's what it says. It indicates thereon that you were there, and Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001049 1 2 3 4 5A 6Q 7 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 A 13 Q 14 15 16 A 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q 24 A 25 36 there, apparently, is a correction. Continental Oil was crossed off, and Monochem has been written in by someone, correct? That's not your writing, X don't imagine. No. And attached to that, of course, are the minutes of the meeting we have just identified, right? I think two pages back. (Witness reviews document.) One more page. There you go. Those are the minutes we just discussed? Um-hum, Was this something that would've been sent back to you? Did you receive any documents back from the MCA in consequence of your meeting? It could've been sent to me. Could have been sent to Jack. It could've been either of us. I would think protocol, they might have sent it to me since I was at the meeting, and I would have given it to Jack; but my recollection is I wrote up or set up some minutes of that meeting. Where would those have been kept? What they basically said is the same thing you've got right here because I usually write Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. '' Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001050 1 2 3Q 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A 17 Q 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 37 that stuff the day after I get back so I don't forget what went on. Mr. Kogler, I'm showing you what's been marked Exhibit 3. It's dated July 30th, 1971. It's on Manufacturing Chemists Association stationery, and it is to Safety and Fire Protection Committee, Occupational Health Committee, and Chairman of Air Quality Committee, Chemical Packaging Committee, Labels and Precautionary Information Committee, Transportation and Distribution Committee, Transportation Equipment Committee, and Water Resource Committee. You are listed as a recipient of that on behalf of Monochem; is that correct? Yes. That is from F. G. Stephenson, who was the secretary of the Safety and Fire Protection Committee. He states, "Enclosed is a draft for a revised edition of SD-56, Vinyl Chloride. Please review it, not only for accuracy but also for sufficiency of coverage. Please address comments on Medical Management sections to Mr. W. E. McCormick, B. F. Goodrich..." and the address in Akron. "Comments on all other Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonuldsonvtUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001051 38 1 sections should be forwarded to me." Is that 2 correct? 3A 4Q Yes. Did you, in fact, proceed to review this 5 document? 6A Well, that was twenty-three years ago. I 7 honestly can tell you I don't remember. If you 8 can find somewhere in the files where I have 9 written a reply to that, I would be happy to 10 review it and answer you better. 11 MS. VANCE: Excuse me. Has this been 12 produced in discovery? Was this something that 13 was produced by Uniroyal? 14 MR. BRODHEAD: I don't know. 15 MS. VANCE: Because I don't recognize 16 it. I don't think I've ever seen this document 17 before today. 18 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 19 Q Mr. Kogler, what, in the normal course of 20 events at Monochem, would you do with this 21 22 A 23 document upon receipt of it? Well, first, I wasn't at Monochem, and I would assume that the individual that took my place 24 would inherit this or Jack Little would have 25 inherited it. The fellow that took my place Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. -. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaJdsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001052 1 2 3 4 5 6Q 7A 8Q 9 10 11 A 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q 18 19 A 20 21 Q 22 23 A 24 Q 25 39 was a Borden employee, Jack Davis, and I would assume they would respond to it through Jack as plant manager. That's why I say if we could find a document that I did indeed do this, I would like to look at it. Your successor was who? I think it was Jack Davis. All right. It's your understanding that in the normal course of events then, this would have stayed within Monochem? Yeah, unless Jack Little decided he wanted me to review it. Then he would get a hold of John Vellecci, who was my boss at Borden -- he was the VP of the Borden site -- and ask me to do this. Jack wouldn't have come to me directly at that time. And as I understand it, you have no recollection of that. No. I was busy with many, many other things at that time. Did anyone consult you, from Monochem, as a result of this correspondence? Not that I can remember. During your time at Monochem, was the parts per million of the ambient vinyl chloride monitored Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001053 1 2A 3 4Q 5A 6 7 8 9 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 15 A 16 17 18 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 Q 24 25 40 there? I think you better check with the safety people. To your knowledge, sir, was it -- I can only say I'm sure it had to have been, but I can't say positively. That's an open air plant, and there probably wouldn't be that much in the atmosphere unless you had a major leakage anyway. That's a lot of VCM. You're right. You would probably smell that much. At what level is it detectable? I just don't know, but I've smelled it before. Where? Over at Allied and other places, but there was equipment available, as I'm sure -- to analyze those levels; otherwise, there would not have been any VCM safety issues. Do I understand you have no particular knowledge of what monitoring devices would've been at Monochem? No, not specifically, no. Are you able to state, as you sit here today, that it was, in fact -- ambient levels were, in fact,'monitored for the threshold limit value Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001054 1 2A 3 4Q 5 6 7A 6Q 9 10 11 12 A 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q 19 20 A 21 22 23 24 Q 25 A 41 for exposure? No, I can't say that. I said I don't remember that it was, but it should've been done. Fair enough. As far as -- I want to direct your attention to a couple of particular areas of this document. That's Exhibit 2. Three. Excuse me. Before I get to that, do you have any knowledge of there being a reduction in the threshold limit value from 500 to 200 or a suggested reduction? Remember my background now. X left Monochem in May of 1971, and as far as VCM, it was out of my mind until Borden decided to build the next VCM plant, which was late in the seventies, early eighties, somewhere around there, a long period of time. Have you ever been associated with a polymerization facility? Only to walk through them. Like I said earlier, X visited the Illiopolis plant once just to get a feel for what went on at the other end. Is that an indoor facility? I think it was. The Leominster plant had Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001055 42 1 reactors, also, as I recall, that were inside. 2Q That was a polymerization plant? 3A I think they were inside. Yeah, that was a 4 5Q polymer plant. You have been in both ofthoseor just -- 6A Just walk-throughs. 7Q Did you know as to whether or not they were 8 monitoring - 9A No, I have no idea. 10 Q -- the air -- please let me finish my question. 11 A 12 Q oh, I'm sorry. That's okay. You anticipatewell, but the 13 record won't reflect that. You have no 14 knowledge as to whether or not, in those 15 16 17 A 18 Q particular plants, ambient levels were being monitored for compliance with the TLV? No, I do not. ' All right. 19 A I think it's safe to say, though, that -- 20 MS. VANCE: Well, there is no 21 question pending, so let him ask another 22 question. 23 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 24 Q On page 4 of thatdocument, Mr. Kogler -- 25 A There is no page 4. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ' Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001056 1Q 2 3 4A 5Q 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A 18 19 20 Q 21 A 22 23 Q 24 25 43 I'll tell you what. Let's do this then. Let's re-mark this. Take my copy. I will have to look over your shoulder, however. Okay. Under 4.4.3 on page 4, it says, "Vinyl chloride monomer vapor concentrations in air near or within the explosive range are most easily determined by the use of a standard combustible gas indicator. The concentrations of vinyl chloride monomer vapor may be read directly in the meter which is usually graduated in percent of the lower flammable limit. The above may not be used for the detection of health hazards." The question to you, sir, is, to your knowledge, was that ever discussed, by anyone at Borden or Monochem, with you? No, not to my knowledge. That instrument was used specifically for determining explosive ranges before you entered any equipment. Do you know what the explosive range is? I would have to go look it up. I don't remember now. Under 4.4.4, it says, "A specially calibrated indicator is commercially available for vinyl chloride monomer determinations within the Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001057 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8A 9Q 10 11 12 A 13 14 15 Q 16 A 17 Q 18 A 19 Q 20 A 21 Q 22 A 23 24 25 44 toxic range. Ampules which change color on exposure to vinyl chloride monomer vapors are also commercially available and may also be employed for the detection of toxic concentrations of vinyl chloride monomer.11 Question number one is, have you seen that statement before, Mr. Kogler? No. Second, are you aware of what they are referring to as far as those ampules are concerned? I can answer that by X think, generally, I know what they are talking about. These are called drager tubes. Drager tubes? I think that's what they used to call them. How do you spell that? D-r-a-g-e-r. How long have they been around? I don't know. Were they around in '54? Gee, X couldn't tell you. They are made for a variety of chemicals for detection. They're just a colormetric device where you aspirate a sample of whatever chemical you're trying to Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001058 45 1 analyze, and you pump it through these little 2 tubes; and if they turn color, then you*re 3 below a limit or you're above a limit. But I 4 don't know what limits they are talking about 5 here. X don't even know what toxicity they are 6 talking about. 7q 8A It's not apparent toyou? Uh-uh. 9Q Did anyone from Borden and/or Monochem discuss 10 that particular paragraph or its content with 11 you to your knowledge? 12 MS. VANCE: At what time? In 13 14 15 A connection with this being a draft? MR. BRODHEAD: At anytime. Well, this came out after I left Monochem. 16 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 17 Q You left in May? 18 A I left in May, and this is in July, so I was 19 gone by then. I would not have seen this 20 unless they say Jack Little would have sent it 21 over to me and asked me to comment on it. I 22 don't recall that. By the time our next VCM 23 24 25 Q plant came out, this thing had, apparently, been approved. On page 10 of Exhibit 3, do you recall having Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ' Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001059 1 2A 3Q 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A 16 17 18 19 Q 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 seen any of that information previously? No. Let me go through , a couple of paragraphs with you. 10.1.1 said -- reads, excuse me -- "Vinyl chloride monomer does not present a serious industrial health hazard provided workers are adequately supervised and instructed in the proper means of handling it. The TLV, established by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (Department of Labor), is 500 parts per million as a ceiling value." Mr. Kogler, do you have any memory, at anytime, of OSHA setting a 500 parts per million ceiling level? I don't even -- no, I don't. I don't think OSHA was even in existence at the time I was at Monochem. If it was, it wasn't very active in those days. Later they became very active. I'm going to refer you simultaneously to Variani Exhibit 9, which is the 1972 Chemical Safety Data Sheet as it was revised in 1972. The only reason I bring this up, sir, is because there, apparently, have been some revisions made between the July 30th of '71 draft and its final form in 1972. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - .Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001060 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8A gQ 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 47 Without getting to the specifics of it, my question to you is, has anyone consulted you, either from Monochem or Borden or Uniroyal, with respect to an evaluation of the July 30th, '71 draft, concerning suggested changes or reformulation of it as it ultimately came out in the final form in 1972? Not to my knowledge. I want to refer you to Exhibit 9 from the Variani deposition, paragraph three under 10.1,1: "Recent research studies reported from Italy indicate that repeated, long-term high level exposures of rats to vinyl chloride monomer vapor can result in the development of malignant tumors. However, many years of industrial experience with human exposures to concentrations frequently far above current standards have not demonstrated any carcinogenicity to humans." My question to you, Mr. Kogler, is, do you have any knowledge or has anyone from Borden or Uniroyal or Monochem discussed with you the reason for the conclusion that many years of industrial experience have shown no carcinogenicity to humans? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToU Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001061 1A 2Q 3 4 5 6A 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q 22 23 24 25 48 Try that again. Has anyone discussed that with you from Borden, Monochem, or Uniroyal? Did that come up in a meeting in a reformulation of the July 30th, *71 letter? I can recall only that there was some discussion, at one of our staff meetings maybe -- I'm not sure where it occurred -- with Jack that someone in Uniroyal was watching the work done by some Italian scientists regarding tumors in rats. At the time, it didn't hit me as a major problem because this was the first that we had ever heard of that or knew anything about this problem. I don't think there was much comment on it because it would've been late in '70 or early in '71 that this happened, but any discussion I had would've had to have been with Jack because he got all of his feedback or feeddown from the people in Uniroyal. In any event, and in specific response to my question, with respect to the conclusion stated in the 1972 draft that many years of industrial experience with human exposures to concentrations frequently far above current Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001062 1 2 3 4 5 6 7A 8 9Q 10 11 12 13 A 14 15 Q 16 A 17 Q 18 19 20 A 21 G 22 A 23 24 25 49 standards have not demonstrated any carcinogenicity to humans, do I correctly understand that you have no independent knowledge nor have you conferred with Uniroyal, Borden, or Monochem employees concerning that particular conclusion? I had no other knowledge other than what I just mentioned earlier. Understood. But that was having to do with a discussion involving, apparently, some Italian study and a Uniroyal employee following that study? And that was after Jack -- Jack brought it up at one of the staff meetings. What was the frequency of your staff meetings? Daily, five days a week. When Jack brought that up, were you a Monochem employee? Excuse me. Were you on the Monochem side of the fence? I was a Borden employee at Monochem, yes. Were the meetings first thing in the morning? They were very early. They were about 8:30, gave us time to get into the plant, make a round, read the logbooks. Then we`d congregate and discuss what happened the day before and 3aton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001063 50 1 what would happen that day, and the turnarounds 2 and so forth. 3Q 4 I'm showing you what's been marked Exhibit 4. It's a May 1970 International Cancer Congress 5 in Houston, Texas -- 6A 7Q 8 May of 1970. -- referencing a paper "Carcinogenic Effect of Vinyl Chloride" by a P. L. Viola. 9 MS. VANCE: Has this been marked in 10 any prior depositions to your knowledge? 11 MR. BRODHEAD: I don't believe so. 12 MS. VANCE: Again, it's something I 13 don't think we've seen before. 14 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 15 Q That's my first question to you,' Mr. Kogler. 16 Have you seen that document before? 17 A No, I don't believe I ever have. 18 Q 19 20 21 22 A 23 24 25 To the extent you're able to discern just from a cursory review at this time, has it been discussed with you in your capacity as a Borden employee? This alludes to that rat problem apparently. As far as the report itself, I don't think we had that report at the plant. If we did, I never saw it. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001064 1Q 2 3 4 5 6A 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q 13 14 15 16 17 A 18 Q 19 20 A 21 22 23 Q 24 A 25 Q 51 When you were receiving documents from the MCA, did anyone at the meeting -- strike that. Was there anything in any of the documents you had received from the MCA that referenced this study in any way? Well, I would have to go back and look at all the documents I received before I can answer that, but I would have to say probably not because that set of documents I would receive was strictly for tank car relief valve emissions and gagging. Would it be fair for me to conclude then that the only thing you knew about this -- and we're talking about Exhibit 4 -- in any way, before you came in here today, was what you recalled from a meeting with Jack Little? That's right. I believe you told me you had never met W. D. Harris nor did you know of him really. The only Harris I know is the Dr. Harris -- he is the doctor for Borden for giving us physical examinations. Locally? Milton Harris. Yeah, he is local. Did you overlap with Mr. Landry at Monochem? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonvitte Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001065 1A 2Q 3A 4 5Q 6A 7 8 9Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A 17 Q 18 A 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 Did I ever what? Overlap your period of employment. Yes. He was there at the plant when I was there. What did he do? He was safety director or safety manager or safety superintendent. I'm not sure of the title, but he was in charge of safety. Was it any part of -- strike that. I believe you told me previously that at least so far as you understand it, it was not generally Monochem's practice to send out material that accompanied the monomer other than whatever the chemist would have transmitted. Is that correct? That's not exactly what I said. Please correct me then. What I said is that when monomer was shipped to the owners, I was -- I'm almost certain that the laboratory performed an analysis on the tank that was used to fill the tank car. The chief chemist probably then certified that analysis for the tank car. That analysis was then sent, I'm certain by mail, to the plant receiving the tank wagon. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001066 1 2 3 4Q 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 A 12 Q 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A 24 Q 25 A 53 If there was any other transmittals, I wasn't aware of it; and if there was, I wouldn't even know what they would be. On Exhibit 5 -- this is the 1954 MCA sheet -- under 3.2.2, it states that the MCA recommends the following in addition to, or in combination with, any label warnings or other statements required by statutes, regulations or ordinances. And there is a label below; is that correct? Yes. Likewise, on the 1972 document, under 7.2.2.1, it states "The Manufacturing Chemists' Association recommends that all containers of VCM should bear a label as shown. The text is designed for the product as shipped for industrial use." And it has a label on the bottom of page 11. My question is, do you have any knowledge as to whether or not Monochem shipped its monomer, for industrial use, with such a label? This one I can't tell you about. The *72 one? Yeah. Because I wasn't at Monochem then. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001067 54 1Q Yes, sir. 2A It seems -- I recall we did label our cars. 3 That's all we shipped. There was no other 4 cylinders to my knowledge. I think to check 5 that, you could talk to Ramirez. He was in the 6 Loading Department. 7Q Who is that? 8A Ramirez. He .was a Monochem employee that 9 shipped the monomer or loaded it really. 10 Q Could I have the full name, please? 11 MS. VANCE: Warren. 12 THE WITNESS: Warren. Okay. Thank 13 you. R-a-m-i-r-e-z. He may still be working. 14 MS. VANCE: He has retired a long 15 time ago. 16 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 17 Q He was a shipping supervisor? 18 A No, no. He was just a loader, an hourly 19 employee if you would. His main job, only job, 20 was loading vinyl chloride for Monochem. He 21 loaded for both the owners. 22 Q And with respect to the 1954 document, do I 23 24 25 A understand itJs your testimony that you simply have no knowledge as to whether or not - I can only assume that when I was at Borden -- Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001068 55 1 we finally produced it over there -- that if 2 this was in existence, that this would've been 3 used by Borden. 4 MS. VANCE: That's '72 or '54? 5 MR. BRODHEAD: '54. 6A 7 I can't help you on that at all then because I wasn't at -- you said this was '70 here. 8 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 9Q This is '72. Let me rephrase the question. 10 A 11 Q Okay. Please do. Since you left in May of '71, I can only expect 12 13 A 14 Q 15 16 A 17 Q 18 19 20 21 A 22 23 24 25 Q that your -- Right. -- betterknowledge would be withwhat occurred at Monochem prior to that time. Right. My question, withrespect to the1954 label is as to whether or not you have any knowledge as to whether the VCM was shipped with such a label or one like it. Well, my answer to that was I think you should check with Ramirez who actually loaded the cars. My recollection is we probably did this, but he can tell you yes or no. I appreciate you telling me that, but what I Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToU Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001069 56 1 need to know, sir, is, as you sit here today, 2 do you have any specific recollection of 3 4a 5Q 6 7 6 whether or not it was, in fact, done? No. Thank you. MS. VANCE: He did say it was his recollection that we did, but he would have to check with Ramirez. 9 THE WITNESS: Right. 10 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 11 Q Did you have anything to do, Mr. Kogler, with 12 the formulation of the Monochem safety manuals 13 or handbooks? 14 A No. That was Landryrsresponsibility pretty 15 much. . 16 Q 17 A 18 Q 19 A 20 Q 21 A 22 23 24 25 Q I'm showing you Exhibits 6, 7, and 10. Let me go one at a time then. Exhibit 6 was April -- 1962. Right. That wasbefore my time. This probably came from Uniroyal since the company, Monochem, had this Technical Service Agreement to supply this type of information. You're not certain ofthat? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. .Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toil Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001070 1A 2 3Q 4 5 6A 7 8Q 9 10 11 12 A 13 14 15 16 Q 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 24 25 57 No. But that's the only place they could get it from. For example, J. V. Lynn's signature is on the third page of that document. Who was Hr. Lynn employed by at the time? This was -- John Lynn was at Monochem, I believe, in 1962. He was a Borden man. So the fact that you now see Mr. Lynn's signature on it, would that, in any way, alter * your strong hypothesis that it came from Uniroyal? . No, not at all because as far as I remember, there was no one at Monochem that knew VCM, prior to my coming in from the outside, except the people from Uniroyal. You feel that Mr. Lynn just signed that document on behalf of someone else? Well, he's the boss. He was the VP. I don't want to get too abstract here, but are you suggesting to me he didn't have anything to do with the preparation of that document? Oh, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that's -- the internal stuff in here I'm almost -- you would almost have to conclude that it had to come from Uniroyal. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonvUIe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001071 58 1 'q That document preceded your employment with . 2 Monochem by a number of years? 3A Many years, yes. 4Q Okay. And Exhibit 7 is 1964, also preceding 5 your employment, also signed by Mr. Lynn. And 6 let me ask you about number seven nonetheless. 7 In the documents produced by Monochem in this 8 case, three handbooks are produced, and they 9 are Exhibit 6, 7, and 10 as you see them here. 10 Seven, with its effective date of May 22nd of 11 64, is followed by one with an effective date 12 of August 1 of '74, ten years later. Might I 13 fairly infer, Mr. Kogler, that Exhibit 7 was in 14 effect at the time you went to Monochem? 15 A You could conclude that. 16 MR. BRODHEAD: Let's take a break for 17 a minute. I think I'm almost done. 18 [A short recess was taken.] 19 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 20 Q Mr. Kogler, I assume that so far as it related 21 to the reformulation of the Chemical Safety 22 Data Sheet, that you did not participate, on 23 behalf of Monochem or Borden, subsequent to the 24 mailing of Mr. Stephenson's July 30th, 1971 25 letter. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001072 1A 2 3 4 5Q 6 7 8A 9Q 10 A 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q 22 A 23 24 25 59 That's right. As I said earlier, the only contact I had with MCA was a meeting in Washington. Before that, Jack took care of it, and I'm assuming he did it afterwards. What is your knowledge of the harmful or adverse health effects of vinyl chloride generally? You mean in today's environment? Yes, sir. Well, I think there is enough information that has been published on the carcinogenic effects on the human body. This came to light when we were designing our second vinyl chloride plant, Borden's first on its side but the second for the group there. We had considerable safety devices built into the plant that were not built in early on because nobody knew about these things then. We had EPA in there monitoring our effluent stacks. We had scrubbers. What year was this? I wish you hadn't have asked me that. It was in the late seventies, early eighties, somewhere in that neighborhood. In fact, I even went to France to look at some technology Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonvtile Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001073 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q 21 A 22 Q 23 24 A 25 60 to reduce the emissions further and license a process from the Rhone Poulenc people, which we ultimately spent some fifteen million dollars on and put in. Once the facts were known, Borden did what was necessary to correct the problems or fix the problems so they wouldn't happen. As I recall, too, our Nursing Department there, dispensary, went into a blood testing -- I'm not sure if that was required by law or not, but it was done anyway. Then on -- I know myself, personally, in my annual physicals, they had to include a panel, I guess they call it, on -- your liver panel or whatever it is to check to see how you're doing. I don't know if that answers your question; but in today's environment, I think there is a lot out there that wasn't known in the early days. Who is J. C. Werner? I don't know. Who was the plant physician at Monochem when you were there? I don't think I could tell you because I didn't go to him. My physicals were given to me by Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonvitte Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001074 1 2 3 4 5 6 7Q 8A 9Q 10 A 11 12 Q 13 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 19 20 21 A 22 23 24 25 Q 61 Borden. We had a nurse at the plant. If there was a plant physician, he would be used for the physicals for the hourly employees and the Monochem employees. Now, I don't know what Jack Little did. He was a Uniroyal employee where he took his physicals. But you have no knowledge of a -- Of a Werner? Or a specific plant physician for Monochem? Well, I can't say that because each plant had a physician, but he wasn't at the plant. Yes, sir. I understand. All I'm saying is, do you recall a specific doctor who was the physician for Monochem? No, I don't. Would you agree with me that as a general proposition, polymerization affords the greater opportunity for VCM exposure, that is higher levels of exposure, than does creation of the monomer itself? Well, I base my answer on recent technology then if I may. Borden built a PVC plant at Geismar late in the eighties, and I was involved in that design. Was this polymerization or fabrication? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. .Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001075 1A 2 3Q 4A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q 24 25 62 Polymerization just like the one that I think Uniroyal has at -- where is it? Painesville? Yes. Only new technology, modern stuff. In the processing of the polymer powder, granules, or whatever, the new technology -- and I don't know if it was available in those days -- goes through a tremendous stripping effort to remove the VCM from it, so that the effluent granules that are packaged and sold are, essentially, free of monomer. So I think to answer your question in a backward way, I would say the hazards of VCM in polymer are far greater than in a monomer plant by a magnitude. Everything in a monomer plant is closed. It's captive, tight. But somewhere in the PVC polymer plant, you have to package stuff. It has to be out in the air. It's almost impossible to have it come down a chute and into a closed container without having some exposure someplace to the atmosphere. As far as places where Monochem's monomer was sent, it went only to polymerization plants, correct? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. - Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToU Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001076 1A 2 3 4 5 6 7Q 8 9A 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 15 16 A 17 Q 18 19 A 20 21 22 23 24 25 63 As far as I know. Borden sent theirs to their plants. I'm certain Uniroyal sent theirs to their plants. There was no sale that I know of. If they were sold, it would be done by the owners, and I wouldn't be involved in that anyway. Well, in any event, the monomer is produced at Monochem, correct? Correct. And it's loaded at Monochem? Correct. Shipped out of Monochem? Correct. And it has a bill of lading from Monochem to its destination? Correct. And then the tank comes back, and the process repeats itself, correct? Correct. MR. BRODHEAD: That's all I have, Mr. Kogler. Thank you. THE WITNESS: Okay. MS. KOESTER: I have no questions for you, sir. THE WITNESS: You have some? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donald&onville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001077 64 1 MS. KOESTER: No, I don't. 2 THE WITNESS: Okay, good. 3 MS. VANCE: Mr. Kogler, I do have a 4 couple of questions I would like to ask you 5 just to clarify some of your testimony. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. 7 MR. BRODHEAD: Show my objection to 8 inquiry by counsel for Monochem. 9 EXAMINATION 10 BY MS. VANCE: 11 Q When you were stationed over at Monochem from 12 13 A 14 Q 15 A 16 Q 17 18 19 20 21 A 22 23 24 25 1969 to 1971, to whom did you report? Jack Little. And to whom did Jack Little report? Gordon Anderson at Uniroyal. You made a reference or used the phrase earlier in the deposition about information feeding down -- I think that was your expression - from Uniroyal. Can you just explain to me and for the record what you meant by that phrase. Okay. I would say that the bulk, if not all, of the outside information that came into the plant would come through Jack Little's office. Jack was a Uniroyal employee. He would receive this information, whatever, from people in Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToUFree Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001078 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9Q 10 A 11 12 13 Q 14 15 16 17 A 18 Q 19 20 21 A 22 Q 23 A 24 25 65 Connecticut. That's what I meant by feeding down. Now, Borden had only one person that I knew of that was really interested in us, and that was very, very subtle, and that was Bill Boyne. Occasionally, Bill would come to the plant and feed down but, essentially, it didn't amount to anything at all. Okay. But Jack would -- I would say he would meet or talk regularly with his superiors in Connecticut. From your observation, did Borden have any comparable experience or expertise in VCM production as did Uniroyal at that point in time? No. Borden didn't have any. What did you observe about the degree of interaction, if any, that Uniroyal had in the oversite or operation of the Monochem plant? The interaction? Yeah. Well, I think theoperation was left pretty much to Jack Little. He was the boss, and we, the staff, operated the plant for the owners. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001079 1 2 3 4 5 6Q 7 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 13 A 14 Q 15 A 16 17 18 Q 19 20 A 21 22 23 Q 24 25 A 66 If there was to be any interaction, it would have to come down from Anderson to Little or from someone of import, probably Boyne to Little. That would be the only interaction I would know of. Did you have any occasion to visit any of the Uniroyal facilities while you were stationed at Monochem? NO. Did you observe anyone from Uniroyal come down to either visit or inspect any aspect of the Monochem operation? Yes. Gordon Anderson would come down. How often was that done? Well, I would only have to guess at it. I think Gordon might show up every maybe three or four months. What was Mr. Anderson's position at Uniroyal at that point as far as you know? As far as I know, I would say Gordon probably was vice-president of manufacturing or some such job. Was Monochem incorporated during the time that you were stationed there? Yes. *$aton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. ... Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 ToUFree Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001080 1Q 2 3 4A 5Q 6A 7 8 9 10 Q 11 12 A 13 14 Q 15 A IS 17 18 19 20 21 Q 22 23 24 25 67 I heard you make reference or use the -- refer to the owners of Monochem, and to whom did you refer? Well, the owners are Borden and Uniroyal. Owners in what sense? Well, they each infused capital to construct these facilities, and each owner had a percentage of the facilities that they owned. It was theirs. Were these owners in the sense of a shareholder relationship with the corporation? I don't know how that worked. I wasn't interested in the legal end of it. All right. Fair enough. I just know that the ownership of each owner and other parameters dictated the amount of monomer that was produced, not necessarily produced, but owned by the owners after it was produced. It was a series of complicated arrangements that dictated that. And with respect to what happens to the monomer after it's produced, Mr. Brodhead finished his questioning of you with questions regarding the loading and the shipment of the monomer in the tank cars. Those tank cars were loaded at 3aton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001081 1 2A 3Q 4 5A 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q 13 14 15 16 17 A 18 19 20 21 22 Q 23 A 24 Q 25 68 Monochem's facility, were they not? Yes. At whose direction or whose scheduling dictated how and when those cars were being loaded? My recollection is if there was a car in there that was owned by Borden -- it was loaded; and if it was a car that was in there ready to be loaded -- this was now after testing and making sure there was no oxygen in the car -- it was loaded. Now, what -- who told it to leave the plant, I don't know. Do you know how it was arranged for those tank cars to be there ready to be loaded or at whose scheduling or direction the tank cars were taken away from Monochem and sent on down the railroad tracks? No. I don't remember that much about that. I was just in the operations. I produced it and got it into the storage tanks at the end of the line, and I did supervise, through Jerry Braun, the loading man, Wayne Ramirez. Warren Ramirez. Warren, okay. What was Mr. Braun's relationship with Mr. Ramirez as far as you know? Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001082 69 1A His boss. 2Q And Mr. Braun was from where? 3A Uniroyal. 4 MS. VANCE: Very good. I have no 5 further questions. Thank you. 6 MS. KOESTER: Mr. Kogler, I now have 7 about two questions for you. 8 THE WITNESS: Okay. 9 EXAMINATION 10 BY MS. KOESTER: 11 Q Do you know who Jack Little's predecessor was 12 as plant manager at Monochem? 13 A 14 Q 15 Bill Boyne. And do you know who his successor was as plant manager? 16 A Boyne's predecessor? 17 Q 18 A 19 Q 20 A 21 Q 22 A 23 24 25 No, Mr. Little's. I said Bill Boyne as I recall. His successor was. Oh, successor? Yes. Well, I think the system, the operation over there, was purchased by Borden; and Tom Murray, from Borden, went over as the general manager or VP. 3aton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001083 70 1 MS. KOESTER: Okay. Thank you. 2 MS. VANCE: One more. 3 RE-EXAMINATION 4 BY MS. VANCE: 5Q How long was Little vice-president - 6 MR. BRODHEAD: You're out of turn, 7 but I will defer to you. Counsel. Please, by 8 all means, don't let me interrupt your train of g thought. 10 BY MS. VANCE: ii Q Do you know the term of service that Mr. Little 12 had as the vice-president in charge of 13 14 A 15 16 17 18 19 Q 20 21 A 22 Q 23 24 A 25 operations? I can come pretty close. Jack took the job over the year I joined Borden, and that was 1969. I think Borden purchased that operation from Uniroyal in 1980. I think it was 1980, so eleven years. He was there until Borden purchased the operation? Yeah, right. All right. Fair enough. MS. VANCE: Nothing else. As far as I know, as far as I remember. See, I was divorced from them at that time. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001084 71 1 MS. VANCE: That's fine. Thank you. 2 RE-EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 4Q Mr. Kogler, you are aware that at one time 5 Uniroyal made its own monomer, are you not, 6 at Painesville? 7A 8Q Um-hum. And it decided not to do that any longer and to 9 instead form a joint partnership and form a 10 corporation called Monochem, correct? 11 MS. VANCE: Objection to the term 12 joint partnership. 13 A 14 Well, the company wasformed. incorporated. It was 15 BY MR. BRODHEAD: 16 Q They formed a separatecorporation? 17 A They had two owners. 18 Q As shareholders? 19 A Well, I assume they had to be shareholders, 20 yes. 21 Q Monochem had a -- at least as designated by 22 Exhibit 3 and the other MCA documents I've 23 shown you today, they were designated 24 25 A separately as attendees at MCA events, correct? Yes, they were. Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaldsonvttle Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001085 72 1 MR. BRODHEAD: Thanks very much. 2 That*s all I have. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. Anything else, 4 girls? 5 MS. VANCE: No. 6 MS. KOESTER: Thank you, Mr. Kogler. 7 8 WITNESS EXCUSED AT 1:00 P.M. 9 ************** 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. . .. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free DonaldsonviUe Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001086 73 1 STATE OF LOUISIANA 2 PARISH OF EAST BATON ROUGE 3 I, SHARON S. WENDT, a Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter and a Registered Professional Reporter, do 5 hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and 6 correct transcript of the deposition of RICHARD D. 7 KOGLER, given under oath in the preceding matter on the 8 10th day of November, 1992, as taken by me in 9 Stenographic machine shorthand, complemented with 10 magnetic tape recording, and thereafter reduced to 11 transcript using Computer-Aided Transcription. 12 I further certify that I am not an 13 attorney or counsel for any of the parties; that I 14 am neither related to nor employed by any attorney 15 or counsel connected with this action; and that I 16 have no financial interest in the outcome of this 17 action. 18 Baton Rouge, Louisiana, this 14th day of 19 November, 1992. 20 21 (k 1/vAK^^ 22 CSR, kPR 23 24 25 Raton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. Certified Shorthand Reporters 1-800-375-7906 Toll Free Donaidsonville Court Reporters Lafayette Court Reporters Orleans Court Reporters UNIR0001087 74 1 STATE OF LOUISIANA 2 PARISH OF EAST BATON ROUGE 3 BEFORE ME, the undersigned Notary Public, 4 within and for the Parish of East Baton Rouge, 5 Louisiana, personally came and appeared, RICHARD D. 6 KOGLER, who, after having been first duly sworn, did 7 depose and say: 8 THAT he is the witness named in the foregoing 9 deposition; that he has read or has had read to him the 10 preceding 72 pages of transcribed matter, and that the 11 same constitute a true and correct transcription of the 12 testimony given by him in this matter on the 10th of 13 November, 1992, except for the following corrections, 14 if any: 15 PAGE 16 LINE DESCRIPTION 17 18 19 20 21 22 Richard D. Kogler 23 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me. Notary, this _______ day of , 1992, in Baton Rouge, 24 Louisiana. 25 NOTARY PUBLIC Baton Rouge Court Reporters, Inc. 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