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FILE NAME Special Asbestos SA DATE 1978 Aug 22 DOC SA010 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Letter to Special Materials Inc from ABC with Program Transcript News Street New York New 10023 Telephone 212 LT1-7777 August 22 1978 Mr. R. Wareham President Special Materials Inc. 3628 West Pierce Street Milwaukee Wisconsin 53215 Dear Mr. Wareham Your letter to Mr. James Duffy has been forwarded to me for reply We regret that you found Asbestos The Way to Dusty Death unsatisfactory The relationship between smoking asbestos and disease applies only to lung cancer as far as is now known and there seems to be no relation between asbestos and smoking when it comes to asbestosis or mesothelioma Since asbestosis is the most frequent result of exposure to asbestos and mesothelioma increasinagt an incredible rate it seems argument isn't really all that valid to us that the is smoking As for zeolite none of the experts we talked to in or out of the industry ever mentioned it As you point out Dr. Selikoff who surely must be regarded as one of the reigning experts on asbestos and disease clearly says that as far as is known asbestos is the only cause of mesothelioma Nowhere in the program did we espouse the benefits of socialization or nationalization That is your own interpretation As for government controls they've been in existence for some years now The question is not whether the controls should exist but at what levels they should be set Fr Weg hopyoeu find other Closeups more to your liking 007701705 175 Sincerely . PH li Pamela Pamela Hill Hip Executive Producer Spec_Mat_0067605 RADIO TV REPORTS INC + 3 91185 4435 WISCONSIN AVENUE N.W WASHINGTON DC 244-35 & boeeEvB e] FOR THE ASBESTOS INFORMATION ASSOCIATION PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT con _ SBCA 5051 exhibtscker PROGRAM ABC News Closeup STATION WJLA ABC Network 2 DATE July 14 1978 10:00 PM CITY Washington D.C. SUBJECT vos Asbestos The Way to Dusty Death JULES BERGMAN Asbestos is a common mineral easily mined to make textiles cement insulation and hundreds of commercial products The darker side is the dust When inhaled it can start years later the body towards cancer or - irreversible lung disease MAN Sometimes it's so dusty like a foggy day And one time I asked he said to me Well we know that it's but it won't hurt nobody there that it was just my supervisor and all a little uncomfortable BERGMAN Before this century ends asbestos will kill or cause serious disease in hundreds of thousands of people The MAN The real person is crippled effect of the disease is the He is a respiratory cripple living death MAN asbestos to any lated cancer Fifty percent of those people who've worked around degree will die of lung cancer or some other re- ; MAN It's the same as putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger and the bullet has 20 years to get there what you breathe today is going to kill you 20-30 years from now WOMAN My mother died 10 years ago from pleuromesothe- lioma And my father died last year of metastatic edena passa- noma ? a form of cancer And I was stricken last May with pleruonesothelioma 1 directly attribute it to asbestos exposure MAN Coughing OFFICES IN YORK LOS ANGELES CHICAGO DETROIT AND OTHER PRINCIPAL CITIES BERGMAN The real tragedy is that this need happened There were clear not have industry by a negligent warnings but they were ignored by government and by the medical profes- sion All failed to warm millions of workers in time MAN ain't no need just short of singing of tryin dyin They tell me I can't But livin like some work at used all there thing is BERGMAN In this program we'll look at to the workers and other victims and who allowed aster to take place who led them on the way to a * * what happened this human dis- dusty death BERGMAN Georgia Tech had some great football teams in the early 50s and Franklin Brooks Jackets played in four was part of them The Yellow consecutive bowl games and Franklin Brooks played in all of them That's him number 60 making the tackle was voted This is the Sugar Bowl game of the most valuable player .. 1956. Franklin Brooks with Summers he worked in an insulation plant like this asbestos board and pipes It was dusty one told him it was dangerous coach Football By age 42 was his life he was back at First as a player then as a . Georgia Tech an assistant coach Then he got sick asbestos cancers mesothelioma the most deadly of . FRANKLIN BROOKS I'd say it's worsened I have the most severe pain that I've had and I lately because ness of breath I've had to have a real short- I haven't used it get an oxygen tank in my room And yet but it won't be long before I think I'll have to use oxygen I can't walk fast or walk up steps If I do I get out of breath That's an they the indication that things are not as good as were shortness of breath and the severe pain that I have BERGMAN The asbestos dust that does the be magnified thousands of times before damage has to and fifty thousand of these specks you can laid end to see end it Two hundred would equal one inch It was just such specks that changed Franklin Brooks life I BROOKS I was just about a pounder and that's what weighed when I became ill I'm down now to about 140 I my turtleneck to hide the loss of my muscles wear & Ero EE 22 2 I'm not talk to it you I have two children sure that they realize one how youngster 20 and daughter 16 serious it is I've tried to them at times but they're very reluctant to talk about know and my wife is reluctant to talk about it and for MRS it's going a miracle BROOKS ^ think one day to all disappear But I it's going guess not Well maybe Because we love him to get better I'm hoping Clip of woman saying prayers with Frank Cullen BERGMAN Frank Cullen is too sick to go to church so the church comes to him Clip of praying last BERGMAN It's been more than 30 years since Frank worked with asbestos That was during World War II Cullen Clip of praying serving BERGMAN Frank Cullen was a boilermaker on destroyers like the U.S.S. Davidson during the war FRANK CULLEN Every time you did 2000 hours you'd have to remove the asbestos on the lines While they were doing this you'd soot be walking in You name it all this garbage it was all there asbestos all over the place,. for _ MAN singing I did my part in the nation Now my lungs are all shot World down War II got there ain't pensation I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time going to go to work on Monday one more time one more time going to go to work on Monday one more time wounded no com- I'm I'm BERGMAN Frank Cullen never worked with asbestos again He left the Navy married had eight children Now he has eight grandchildren as well Then in 1977 he started to cough uncontrollably first DR film in IRVING SELIKOFF 1975 was normal These are Actually Mr. his Cullen's rays lung at the time This was not normal but we couldn't see it on the ray A little over a " year or a year and a half later he began to have some problems And this here film is in April on the lining of of 1977 and you begin his chest And that's to see something growing unhappy news That turned out to be a mesothelioma mesothelioma Hospital BERGMAN Dr. Irving Selikoff of New York's Mount Sinai very DR effective SELIKOFF in Our treatment effective in most cases for mesothelioma is not BERGMAN Mesothelioma is caused by what DR SELIKOFF for it is asbestos Well so far the only cause that we know CULLEN My strength is all gone I have anymore I can't even take the top off a no strength know is that I'm 60 catsup bottle All I has taken years of age right now and my whole life a complete turn I was Now -~ I'm not going to be a bed figuring on retiring at 62 able to do case but I'm not going to be anything like I used to do I used to do a lot of woodworking and stuff like that I'm restricted now I don't sleep in a bed have to elevate this chair I I sleep in this chair to sit can't in a flat bed up Otherwise 1 -~ once I lay down the coughing - And I I have starts I'm at the point now when I have four ~ and these are the times when you should enjoy children married your family But the way it is now you can't even the same time have too many in your house at and You've got to be every mindful of colds and everything that comes in disease disease that you get is pneumonia If you have Because any a problem kind of And the a respiratory biggest danger have you ever got pneumonia forget it You don't a chance in hell to get over it Sinai BERGMAN About every month for a week of chemotherapy Frank Cullen goes into Mount nothing CULLEN else open If for this doesn't work then me at the present time that's it There's Sometimes I feel that my lung is pulled golf ball and 1 get a little pain but not up then it goes away You're never anything where completely free of you can see you were really feeling good tight as a too 33 and you know BERGMAN Frank Cullen is deeply in debt The Administration has denied his claim for Veterans can't prove that his Illness compensation saying he War II He is the victim came from his service during World too of an Indifferent Navy a Navy that for we'llmanlyookyeaarts thdaetlibneerxattely ignored the dangers of asbestos And * *fi * with than BERGMAN In a sense it all began back in the frnatic effort to build a million men enough ships to win and women worked around the clock World War the war II More in these ship- 0 B) yards and the use of we're seeing today a back to those days asbestos jumped dramatically Part sharp increase in asbestos disease of what goes retardant Asbestos is safe and useful as an insulator and flame- as long as it remains intact or is safely covered That's why so much of it is used on ships boilers and pipes But when it breaks down or is disturbed the microscopic asbestos dust is released can be inhaled and ultimately cause cancer In the rush to build thousands and thousands of ships no one really considered the health hazards Ships to carry goods to our fighting men and allies around the world and warships a huge fighting fleet all AY using large amounts of asbestos CHARLES EYE The Navy during the early war years they built a tremendous armada to rain havoc and hell on the whole world And we did that BERGMAN Charles Eye of the Asbestos Workers Union at the Long Beach Naval Shipyward AY EYE And today we have workers who are dying asa result of that tremendous Navy The only thing that happened is the guns quieted but the disease that we built into that ship now has turned on the person who built it And we continue to kill our own at the -- actually at a rate faster than we did -- or number more than what we did during the war ABC News tell the BERGMAN The Navy could have avoided today's disaster has obtained Navy documents never before made public that behind story E947safety warneddangers asbestos dust But it took almost 30 years for theNavy to act Finally Navy said it would limit the use of asbestos aboard itsships At about the same time shipyard unions at the Electric Boat Company Groton Connecticut which makes nuclear submarines Dr. specialists became concerned They called in Mount Sinai Hospital Selikoff's from - DR SELIKOFF We examined a thousand men who were actu- ally in the yard at the time We didn't expect to find too much because in general when you those are the healthy people examine and the people who are working well fellows who are sick aren't there anymore And we were rather surprised to find that about half of them had changes on their rays which were rather typical of what we find with asbestos . BERGMAN Half of them ey * vt so Pata ly DR SELIKOFF Yes And mind only the men who were there 15 you we tended to examine ters and electricians and or more years We examined carpen- nicians guards riggers and machinists radiation tech- welders for truckers all sorts of men who worked example boilermakers painters And in the yard had abnormal rays among them 50 : Did they BERGMAN The Navy and Electric let you see worker records Boad did they help you case DR SELIKOFF No. didn't seem to think it The was Electric Boat Company in any wise to show us any records BERGMAN Did they help you at all ; DR SELIKOFF Well no - | - BERGMAN Even today Navy yards aren't therefore not as safe for the as clean and did take some positive steps worker as they should be The Navy at the Philadelphia Navy Yard with tpoo s wwe orrkeerds vacuum cleaners and protective clothing for the asbes- an asbestos suTbhsitsitwuatse a demonstration put on just for us using . a The Philadelphia yard was the would let us film But ABC News has only one the Navy would which show that its obtained internal Navy reports violations own inspection of that same yard found damaged asbestos insulation Inadequate vacuum numerous and protective masks and loose asbestos cleaners there is the same pattern of violations atscroatpheraroyuanrddsthe yard And Norfolk personnel protection not properly trained Inadequate new workers ' improper And at Puget Sound lack of use of respirators and a proper weak protective clothing enforcement program The conclusion is inescapable jeopardized Workers are still being John Cleary of the Metal Trades Council at Puget Sound saws JOHN CLEARY So they get in there with sometimes which blow air saber saws times with hammers even around and they just chop it away some- in there pulling these And it looks like a snowstorm when you're them back to the valves and these steam lines out to take shop to work on them BERGMAN The Navy's medical program is also deficient Although it made a big show of examining 5000 workers at delphia yard the medical the Phila- do a procedures were inadequate You cannot proper study for asbestos disease without using specially J @ @@@ @@ @@ qualified doctors to read the rays They're called B readers The Navy did not bother to hire B readers for the Philadelphia medical survey The result was that the Navy found only five per- cent of its shipyard workers a figure far below any other had asbestos such study lung changes Nor were there any B several years ago when Charles exams being given readers at Eye became the Long Beach Shipyard suspicious of the Navy Ay ; all EYE Everyone was told the same thing Everthing's right Everybody's in good shape We didn't believe it We started getting And so my local suspicious after looking at some mortality sent 22 rays to Dr. Selikoff which is a rates cross- sample wise duration of trade that sort of thing of the 22 came back with asbestos disease And 17 BERGMAN Some of those 17 have already Eye's father also a shipyard worker has died of cancer And Eye himself now has a problem died Charles asbestosis and EYE I have about 25 of my lung capacity is gone as a result of asbestos disease I tire very easily going up and down stairs doing any type of physical hard physical work 1 become very fatigued very rapidly tinuous But once thing and you get it it's irreversible ultimately I'll die from it It's a con- doctors BERGMAN Finally the to interpret the rays Navy has started using qualified U In the study just completed at Long Beach covering 6640 employees they found that 1061 almost 16 -- that's { out of 6 -- with asbestos abnormalities That was for the whole yard But for older workers those who have worked at Long Beach for more than 22 years the figures doubled One out of every three of them has asbestos disease and were told there is no cure At Pearl Harbor the Navy seems more concerned about publicity than about the asbestos the health of its workers program began only 237 out Four years after of 3000 workers have been record so examined and only 72 of them have been rayed A bad the yard's commander wrote other yard commanders urging they move more rapidly to quote get ahead of the power curve before the media make us look like kicking and screaming into doing what is thing end quote we are being dragged legal and the right At the Mare Island Navy Yard the unions not the Navy arranged for a study by Dr. Polakoff an occupational health specialist from Berkeley California Dr. Polakoff examined 359 shipyard workers and found was one of them that 59 had lung abnormalities John Morris dotaa ie 4 45 JOHN MORRIS Hey when you're down there this stuff exposed And once you you know hit it It's laying or tear it there it's dormant it's going to fly on you know going to get on them and it's going to kill them people it's there's nothing that they're doing about it right nyoow u know And MAN It's not the government that has to widow The widows call me and answer to the It's not the up say Where do we go from here government that has to answer to the worker who's coughing and short of breath It's not the government who has to try to file a claim so workers who worked for the in private Industry for 30 years can get some government or he's alive or not to help his children get thrcooumgphensscahtoio ol n whIett'hser not the government who's answering these questions 630 BERGMAN The Navy has been just as law with its ships as it has with its shipyards It's older ships were built with asbestos It's newer ones are supposed to be asbestos wher- ever suitable substitutes can be found But these insulating pads containing 80 asbestos came off two brand vessels the U.S.S. Elliott and the U.S.S. Tarawa Both ships were built by Litton ndustriesat this shipyard in Pascagoula Mississippi When we asked Litton told us flatly that it used no asbestos on the But these pads came from those ships and there is ships stitute a suitable sub- - So the Tarawa and the Elliott join the rest of the fleet still using asbestos insulation And the Navy can't seem to control asbestos repairs at sea to cut the down the exposure of its own crewmen . . Last October the Navy again prohibited asbestos repairs at sea unless stringent safeguards were met The directive com- plained that some and they were not ships were not complying because they could not with the original orders U.S.S. comply board Again unreleased Navy documents The Commander of the Enterprise because the responding to that directive said he could not necessary filters and respirators were not on More recently and more damning a Navy study of the Atlantic fleet found that 85 of the ships inspected had no controls at all on asbestos repairs performed at sea happens And so it goes The Navy issues orders and nothing much , MAN You have this glant marshmallow Navy and where do C you grab the corner to get a marshmallow down on its back And it's hard to personally get mad at -- if you had somebody standing there denying it one unions could go after single that person could single out then the But we've got the Navy and we've got all their subordinate agencies and they're contracting this work out And all of them deny that any of them have an asbestos prob- Iem and that they're doing their best And as Charlle said they just snow you under with paperwork BERGMAN We confronted the Navy with its own reports surveys and audits It refused to comment Why The major reason hundreds of millions of dollars in unsettled claims The government has advising shipyard workers to to pay for the exams finally taken a tentative step by see their doctors It didn't offer - now yard Before our asbestos epidemic is over many years from those claims will climb into the billions not only from shipworkers but others as well And we'll look at that next * * * _ BERGMAN The riverside section of Paterson New Jersey a grimy part of an old industrial town an area full of small fac- tories and warehouses Up on the hill rows of modest houses All in all a drab and depressed area When the history of asbestos is written this building now a paint warehouse will play a grimly prominent role It used to be the Union Asbestos and Rubber Company UNARCO for short During World War II it made asbestos products for our ships ' At at all The day's the time UNARCO operated here there were no controls plant was filthy And we now know that as little as heavy exposure can start the deadly cycle The men who worked here have been studied more thoroughly than any other group of asbestos workers About 35 of them have already died of cancer and other asbestos diseases That's more than three times as many as would normally die of cancer The study now 10 years old is still going on WOMAN Your father worked at Union Asbestos and Company in 1944 and we are interested in what he has since then and to see if the effects of the asbestos fest themselves 30 years later been dust Rubber doing mani- BERGMAN The UNARCO studied So far 35 of them The family connection is a new workers as well concern families are also being have lung abnormalities . 10 lungs was insulator A week before this removed Her only in a Massachusetts interview one of Mrs. exposure came from her shipyard Barbara father Gury's an MRS BARBARA GURY When he covered with asbestos And I don't came home his clothing was like It's a know if you know what it looks clothing and chalky substance when it accumulates it forms like a dust and dries on And that was particle when it's touched dad my exposure to asbestos being hear his CCOU near when he came home from work and when my clothes and shipped them over the porch my mother to take off took his work the excess dust before washing them your BERGMAN father at the You had mentioned bus stop you used run down and meet . MRS GURY Yes very often and give him he was covered at that time with the inate in the 10 asbestos and it you could see it flying around in the big hug And would dissem- atmosphere REPORTER How did you react when the doctor told you of MRS GURY I was frightened frightened to death knew -- I recalled every day of my mother's I father's illness and knew what was illness recalled my in store for me And I was that much more read and I was frightened to death I'm year mother two children a happily married a everything to live for It sort of woman with for me puts a damper on everything REPORTER Ed how did you feel when you first heard it ED GURY I cried 1 43 I wasn't angry I don't think dI idtnh'itnk knI owwas very upset and perplexed I couldn't believe it ! knew her anything about asbestos or anything at that time I father had worked with it and that's what - cancer And I knew that the mother had caused his I couldn't at that also had mesothelioma And thelioma with the particular moment in time relate Barbara's meso- more bizarre parents But as the year went on boy it got and more bizarre And I can hadn't been for God and the gift of faith htohnaetstlI y wosualyd thhaatve if it bably jumped out a window a long time ago pro- I have two small children whom I love And the other day 1 was -- I the street here toCentral very very much left the hospital and I went across to Park and I sat on the rock over there get a little fresh air and sunshine and I saw this father playing with his year boy and his six- or daughter and my two kids they were playing baseball And the girls wasn't as which seven I do at home with the 443 I just sat there and good a hitter as mine but what it's done to my wife cried my eyes out because that is 11 " almost BERGMAN commonplace Mesothelioma once very rare is becoming DR SELIKOFF From 1930 to 1960 we saw three cases one every 10 years And we're a pretty big hospital we have 1200 beds we do almost 20,000 operations a year and so forth And imagine we only saw three cases in 30 years Now why Dr. Holland had three cases on his service at any one time BERGMAN It cost Yale University 250,000 to get rid of its asbestos problem Evry ceiling in its story Art and Architecture Building had to be removed They had all been sprayed with asbestos Two thousand students use this building every day Despite all we have known fectly legal until 1973 to apply it 150s 60s thousands were built about asbestos it inside buildings that way was per- During the Dr. Robert Sawyer of Yale's Health Service set the clean- up in motion C DR ROBERT SAWYER What drew our interest was the facts that these open and exposed ceilings as we found them had begun to break apart and to disintegrate And for instance these books that were up near the ceiling were 14 if you put the book in it might strike the asbestos the ceiling a little bit It would be covered material The people would blow them clean on with opening them BERGMAN The layer of asbestos dust DR SAWYER The cloud of dust would come up This we found in persons doing maintenance work in the building or doing custodial work dusting For instance we found that the custodians would go through the library area holding a plastic bag in front of their face and dusting the fallen debris into the bag And we used monitoring devices to find out what the exposures to these individuals were We were quite surprised to find that the levels found in such situations not only in this building but in many many more that we've looked at since can be in the vicinity of or indeed on occasion exceed industrial standards set by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration for industrial exposure BERGMAN This is the World Trade Center in New York That's asbestos dropping on the worker below tos Another building in New York The dust contains asbes- An apartment complex in New Jersey Ceilings throughout 12 were sprayed because they with asbestos Some tenants are suing consider the asbestos a health hazard the builder you Even after 1973 called it decorative that use asbestos could still be sprayed if It took EPA five more years to stop with School buildings too asbestos ceilings Thousands of them had been built A government inspection In New Jersey of 48 schools showed thirds of the ceilings were damaged with considerable risk of asbestos contamination The government now recommends they be removed . And in this country what goes up eventually comes down Most buildings except the very oldest contain some asbestos and demolition spreads the dust into the area an unintentional danger for a product that serves man in many useful ways Almost everyone who asbestos dust dust in their lungs lives in an urban area has some recently Despite all tightened up that was known about asbestos regulations for house wreckers the EPA to keep only the dust with spreading But there are still many people who asbestos and don't know that if can be dangerous work as 73 dust is All brake linings contain As they wear down or when they released asbestos some as high are replaced asbestos Three years ago government scientists recommended that asbestos the asbestos asbestos dust be vacuumed out instead of blown But the Occu-, pational Safety and Health Administration ignored the recommen- dation 1976 study found that 25 of the mechanics sampled had abnormalites lung abnormalities abnormalities Nine hundred thousand workers are exposed to brake lining dust SafetyNor is there any regulation on labeling lining boxes OfOf the five we examined one had rather detailed precau- tions printed on it Two had caution labels one on the bottom of the where it was not likely to be seen And two others warnings had no warnings at all And the argument of how much asbestos is too tos still goes on The current standard is two fibers centimeter of air The government wants that lowered resists . much asbesper cubic Industry Dr. Paul Kotin Medical Director and Senior Vice Presi- dent of Manville the largest asbestos company in the world DR PAUL KOTIN In the case of asbestos I think that 13 C C we or are creating no asbestos disease Gl cancer as you -- at two fibers career lung cancer mesothelioma per cc or less for a working BERGMAN Then why do the government's top experts want to see the two fibers per cc lowered to .5 or even less wrong DR KOTIN Because the government before and they're wrong now experts have been BERGMAN Didn't you once say that there is no such thing as a safe level of exposure for any carcinogen DR KOTIN I sure did and Surgeon General's committee in 1970. tell you I'm smarter now I said it as part of the And I guess I'm going to ; . BERGMAN a recurrence of the tors disagree A lot past smarter now but smart Dr. Kotin thinks yes enough to prevent Most other doc- Over the years industry and government too often be- lieved that the limits then in effect were good enough And time and again they were wrong - known for What is most decades and disturbing no one did is that the dangers anything about it have been # * * just been BERGMAN It's not discovered We've as if known the dangers of about them for asbestos have 70 years 1907 Asbestos disease is reported for the first times In Great Britain 1918 The first report in the United States The government says there is an urgent need for more investigation of the health aspects of asbestos manufacture But no one was listening The war to end about to enter the Roaring all wars was Twenties ending America was was Even if the workers knew anything about asbestos -- and they didn't 14 there wasn't much they could do They had few rights They could be fired at will Unions were either weak or nonexistent 3927 ghe Best Medical Journal reports on asbestos No one seemed to care Americans were more intrigued by Babe Ruth's 60th home run and an adventurous young pilot Charles Coolidge Lindberg flew the Atlantic all alone President Calvin Coolidge said the business of America was business He didn't say anything 14 about the worker 1928 The Journal of the American Medical Association reported on a young woman who died of asbestosis asbestos disease wasn't It wondered why getting more attention One cans were 10 years living it up but there was Prohibition still had been reason Ameriin effect for almost plenty of booze to be had People were having a good time No one cared workers In 1930 The British now sure Dr. E.R.Merriweather textile found asbestosis 26 of them Shortly thereafter the British took the first reduce workplace one here did anything were hard By this to come time by America was deep into the Depression Jobs Clip of song , Brother Can You Spare a Dime] BERGMAN Occupational health Workers Workers got low competed for what jobs priority Nothing was there done were 1934 The British British medical magazine Lancet reports on 100 cases of asbestosis and the first cases of lung cancer in asbestos workers 1935 In this this country Dr. Anthony Lanza in a study done for the industry recommends control measures in asbes- tos factories The industry industry he says seems quite uninformed of the hazard Little if anything is done asters There drought were other other things to worry creating creating dust storms about natural dis- Clip of song , I'm a Dust Bowl Refugee from BERGMAN under 100,000 By this time asbestos tons in 1910 to 700,000 production is growing tons at the end of World War II Millions of people have been exposed And little is done still 1949 Dr. Ken Ken Smith Medical Director of the JohnsManville Company studies 708 asbestos workers and finds 534 with lung changes John McKinney , the President of Manville medical Did you director know Dr. Ken Smith when he was your corporate JOHN MCKINNEY : Yes I did 15 employees BERGMAN and found You know he an asbestos did a study of 708 danger way back in Manville 1949 MCKINNEY Yes BERGMANsince Smith called for a warning label on asbestos packages and has since -- and it was overruled he's testified for business purposes He was told it would hurt business reason MCKINNEY I for it I know know nothing about that Dr. Smith has I don't know that that's accurate at all that that that was the testified to that but BERGMAN Well it's sworn testimony in a federal court about a MCKINNEY Undoubtedly We think Dr. Smith was mistaken lot of things including his own policies - ports eyes BERGMAN on asbestos and did very By the 50s and 60s there are scores of reBut the government turned its back closed its little sician Dr. William Johnson a former Public Health Service phy- . . DR WILLIAM JOHNSON The U.S. Public Health Service conducted surveys of these plants under assurances of confidentiality They essentially shared the data between themselves and the companies and in a few instances with state agencies which traditionally have not been very aggressive as far as occupational health protection state BERGMAN governments What you're saying is that the government and companies worked together DR JOHNSON Yes very much so BERGMAN Doesn't that amount to collusion .DR fair to say JOHNSON If you want to call it that I think it's oo . Unfortunately I think there was an attitude of Well let's 13 let's treat the worker as a guinea pig out there in that plant and let's expose him over a lifetime Let's see how many of them develop problems with asbestos diseases Then maybe in that way over a long time we can determine what a safe level of exposure to asbestos is DR SELIKOFF What we're seeing now is the result of our inadequacies of the past of research that wasn't done of| inspections that weren't made of regulations that weren't pro- s < am 16 att te duced of laws that weren't passed of studies that started tunately And now unfortunately we're paying that too it's the people who worked under were never price Unfor- that are paying the price we're not those circumstances It's unhappy to think that these went to work thinking that somebody must be pelooopklieng laitke tMhre. sCituulal-en tion to see that it was safe or they knew about government departments Industrial hygienists and scientists and so forth And there was no somebody singing MAN _ I did my part in World War 11 got wounded for the nation Now my lungs are all shot down there ain't no compensation I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time I'm going to work on Monday one more time one more time I'm going to work on Monday one more time The doctor says I smoke too much don't know what I got he says that I'm not tryin but we both know he's He says he to go to work on Monday one more time alyin I'm going I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time one more time I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time The last time I went near my job I thought my lungs were broken Chest bound down like iron bands I couldn't breathe for choking I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time one more time I'm going to go to work on Monday more more time The doctor says both lungs are gone there ain't no way shake it But I can't live without a job somehow I've got to take it m going to go to work on Monday one more time I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time one more time I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time They tell me I can't work at - there ain't no need of tryin But livin like all is just short of dyin some use thing I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time I'm going to go to work on Monday one more time