Document qaXdRMNERX4mE4Epv2DQ4exLK

TOOKER & ANTZ Certified Shorthand Reporters 131 Steuart Street San Francisco, CA 94105 (415) 392-0650 June 3, 1995 Robert M. James c/o LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae 601 Grant Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219-1819 Attn: Jeffrey Reed, Esq. In Re: Rotolo v Abex Dear Mr. James: Your deposition taken in the above matter has been transcribed. This deposition will be available at our office for reading and signing by you for a period of thirty-five (35) days, after which time the original will be sealed and sent to the office which noticed the deposition, in accordance with Section 2025(s)(1) of the California Code cf Civil Procedure. Sincerely yours, (X/tbk-v-Y Tooker & Antz cc: All Counsel ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0002 TOOKER i ANTZ Errata Sheet WITNESS: Robert M. James______ CASE: _________Rotolo v Abex Corp. DATE: _________6/8/95___________________ Page Lite C60777 0003 TOOKER & ANTZ Certified Shorthand Reporters 131 Steuart Street San Francisco, CA 94105 (415) 392-0650 June 3, 1995 Robert M. James c/o LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae 601 Grant Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219-1819 Attn: Jeffrey Reed, Esq. In Re: Rotolo v Abex Dear Mr. James: Your deposition taken in the above matter has been transcribed. This deposition will be available at our office for reading and signing by you for a period of thirty-five (35) days, after which time the original will be sealed and s^nt to the office which noticed the deposition, in accordance with Section 2025 (s) (1) of the California Code of Civil Procedure. Sincerely yours, Tooker & Antz cc: All Counsel TGC-KER & ANTZ 415/392 -0650 C60777 0004 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 3 ------oOo------- 4 5 6 SAM ROTOLO, CERTIFIED COPY 7 Plaintiff, 8 V. No. 958038 9 ABEX CORP., et al., 10 Defendants. 11 ----------------------------------------------------- / 12 13 DEPOSITION OF 14 ROBERT M. JAMES 15 ' THURSDAY, JUNE 8, 1995 16 17 18 19 20 21 ANN T ERWIN, CSR 3190 22 TOOKER & ANTZ 23 Certified Shorthand Reporters 131 Steuart Street, Suite 201 24 San Francisco, CA 94105 (415) 396-0650 25 C60777 0005 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 1 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION BY MR. WAGNER ................................................................. 4 3 ------oOo------- 4 EXHIBITS 5A Notice of Taking Deposition and .............. 11 6 Request for Production of Documents ' 7B Re-Notice of Deposition and .......................... 11 8 Request for Production of Documents 9C 10 D Code References re FMC ............................................ 12 D-l to D-12 Miscellaneous ................................ 70 11 documents 12 E E-l to E-5 Documents re ozone and ... 87 13 aluminum 14 F F-l to F-6 American Welding ........................ 91 15 Society specifications 16 G G-l to G-4 chronology of labels ............... 97 17 H H-l to H-2 Alcoa welding and .................. 103 18 brazing manuals 19 I 1-1 to 1-5 Welding Alcoa Aluminum .. 106 20 publications 21 ------oOo-----22 23 24 25 C60777 0006 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 BRAYTON, GISVOLD & HARLEY, 999 Grant Avenue, 3 Novato, California 94948, represented by ERIC R. WAGNER, 4 Attorney at Law, appeared as counsel on behalf of 5 plaintiff. 6 LeBOEUF, LAMB, GREENE & MacRAE, 601 Grant Street, 7 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219-1819, represented by 8 JEFFREY REED, Attorney at Law, appeared as counsel on 9 behalf of Aluminum Company of America. 10 JACKSON Sc. WALLACE, One Maritime Plaza, 3 2nd floor, 11 San Francisco, California 94111, represented by JOEL H. 12 FENER, Attorney at Law, appeared as counsel on behalf of 13 Plant Insulation and M. Slayen & Associates. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C60777 0007 TOOKER Sc ANT2 415/392-0650 3 1 BE IT REMEMBERED that on Thursday, June 8, 1995 2 commencing at 10:00 at the offices of Tooker & Antz, 131 3 Steuart Street, San Francisco, California, before me, ANN 4 T. ERWIN, a Certified Shorthand Reporter, personally 5 appeared 6 ROBERT M. JAMES, f 7 a witness , who having been first duly sworn by me was 8 examined and testified as follows. y 10 ------oOo------- 11 12 EXAMINATION BY MR. WAGNER 13 Q. Sir, could you state your full name for the 14 record, please. 15 A. Robert M. James. 16 Q. And your middle name is? 17 A. Morrison. 18 Q. Have you had a deposition taken before? 19 A. Yes . 20 Q. On how many occasions? 21 A. I have had two previous depositions. 22 Q. When was the last one before today? 23 A. It would have been a year ago last, around 24 Easter, the week of Easter. Not this last Easter but 25 prior to that. C60777 0008 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 4 . 1 Q. Easter of '94? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. In what location was that deposition? 4 A. New Haven, Connecticut. 5 Q. Can you recall what the issue was at the time 6 of your deposition? 7 A. Excuse me. I don't believe it was New Haven. 8 It was somewhere in Connecticut. That's where Yale is. 9 I'm not sure where in Connecticut it is. 10 Q. Just generally speaking can you recall the 11 substance of your testimony? 12 A. Yes, it was some regulatory matter with MSHA, 13 Mine Safety and Health Administration, concerning one of 14 our facilities in Point Comfort, Texas. Primary thrust 15 dealt with mercury exposures and toxicity. 16 Q. Can you recall any discussion of aluminum 17 exposure or toxicity at the time of that deposition? 18 A. Not directly, but indirectly. 19 Q. What do you mean by that? 20 A. There was discussions around the scope of 21 Alcoa's industrial hygiene program. So there would be an 22 indirect inference around aluminum exposures. C60777 0009 23 Plus we did measurements of different jobs and that 24 data was used to try to show the magnitude of the hygiene 25 exposures at the plant. So it'js kind of a marker for what TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 5 1 kind of hygiene practices were ongoing. 2 Q. Was that a one-day session? 3 A. There was several of us deposed. I can't 4 recall how long I actually was deposed. But the 5 deposition lasted more than one day. I can't recall how 6 long I actually testified. 7 Q. Were there other industrial hygienists on 8 behalf of Alcoa that were deposed? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Can you recall the name of any of the parties 11 to that lawsuit? 12 A. Well, we were -- it was the Mine Safety and 13 Health Administration. It was against the government, 14 government agency. 15 Q. Who was makingthe claim? 16 MR. REED: Objection, we don't know that a claim 17 was made. 18 MR. WAGNER: Q. Do you know of any type of a claim 19 was made in that matter by a party or an individual? 20 A. I don't believe there was a claim. 21 Q. Would you have a copy of that deposition 22 transcript ? 23 A. With me? 24 Q. Would you have ever been provided a copy of 25 the deposition transcript? * _____________ .. _____________________________________________________i TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0010 6 . 1 A. As I recall I was asked to look it over 2 subsequent to the deposition. 3 Q. Did you retain a copy? 4 A. I don't recall. 5 Q. Would you know where one would be located? 6 A. Well, I presume you could find one in the, 7 through MSHA. 8 Q. But you wouldn't know if you have one in your 9 possession? 10 A. I don't recall. 11 Q. Before that when was it that you were last 12 deposed? 13 A. I can't recall the exact time frame. It was 14 several years prior to that. The year escapes me. It 15 would be conjecture as to the exact time. 16 Q. Within the decade of the '90s would it be? 17 A. Could be '90s or late '80s. I'm not sure. 18 Q. Can you recall where that occurred? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Where was? 21 A. That was in Pittsburgh. 22 Q. Can you recall the name of any of the parties 23 involved in that matter? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Was Alcoa a defendant in that case? C60777 0011 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 7 - 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Generally speaking, can you recall what the 3 issue was at the time of your deposition? 4 A. The issue had to deal with a property, I 5 believe, that was located in Edgewater, New Jersey that t 6 Alcoa had owned at some previous time. 7 Q. Again, just generally can you recall the 8 substance of your testimony? 9 A. Had to deal with my knowledge and awareness 10 of PCB exposures that could have occurred in that 11 facility. 12 Q. Can you recall any testimony concerning 13 aluminum or aluminum oxide exposures at the time of that 14 deposition? 15 A. Not specifically relatedto aluminum. 16 Q. Would there have been to your recollection 17 any testimony generally applicable to aluminum or aluminum 18 oxide exposures or hazards at the time of that deposition? 19 A. Yes. Well, it was kind of, yes, in the 20 indirect context that they were kind of reviewing the 21 state of Alcoa's industrial hygiene programs, how we 22 managed issues and policies were issued, how did we follow 23 up. So in an indirect context it dealt with kind of in a 24 broader way industrial hygiene issues and toxicological 25 issues . TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0012 8 1 Q. Do you know who was making a claim in that 2 case? 3 A. I do not recall. 4 Q. Was that an individual? 5 A. No, I don't believe so. I think it dealt t 6 with a property, a real estate transaction, potential 7 liabilities around, you know, who, who was accountable for 8 environmental or chemical issues. 9 Q. Would you have a copy of that deposition 10 transcript? 11 A. I can't recall. 12 Q. Can you recall any of the attorneys involved 13 in that matter? 14 A. I believe there was attorneys representing 15 Citicorp. I can't recall offhand the names of the other 16 attorneys that were involved. Of course, I knew our 17 attorneys. Alcoa's attorneys were there. 18 Q. Do you know if that case had been filed in 19 New Jersey? 20 A. I don't know the details. 21 Q. And these are the only two times you have 22 been deposed prior to today. Is that true? 23 A. Yes, sir. C607770013 24 Q. Have you ever testified in a court of law? 25 A. Well, on a personal level I was involved in TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 9 . 1 an arbitration case over a real estate transaction. 2 Q. Had nothing to do with your work with 3 Alcoa 4 A. No. 5 Q. --or exposures of hazards? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Let's go aheadand run through the ground 8 rules and background that goes with the deposition. You 9 have done this on two prior occasions, but just so we are 10 both on the same page. 11 I will ask you to be sure to speak audibly in 12 responding to a question. If you shake your head or nod 13 your head that is problematic for the reporter. 14 It's also important that we not speak at the same 15 time. If I'm as"king a question, please allow me to finish 16 it before you start your answer. Of course, I'll do the 17 same with you. You need to finish your answer before I 18 start my next question. If I ever cut you off, let me 19 know that and I'll stop. 20 It is also important that you understand each of 21 the questions I ask. If you answer a question that I've 22 asked you, I will assume you understood it. Is that fair 23 enough? 24 A Yes C60777 0014 25 Q. You also are aware that you are under oath TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 10 1 and are obligated to testify truthfully. Your testimony 2 carries the same force and effect as testimony in a court 3 of law. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. At the conclusion there will be a 6 transcription of the testimony given today which will 7 include all of the questions and all of the answers. You 8 will have an opportunity to make changes to your testimony 9 at that time. If you do that, however, you need to be 10 aware that that is subject to comment by any of the 11 attorneys involved in this case. Do you understand that? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Is there any reason why wecan'tproceed with 14 your deposition here today? 15 A. No.' 16 Q. We have aninformal setting in the sense if 17 you want to take a break any time, let us know, get a cup 18 of coffee or just for any reason at all. Okay? 19 A. Yes. 20 (Exhibit A was marked) 21 MR. WAGNER: Just as a couple of housekeeping 22 matters, before the deposition began we marked as exhibit 23 A the notice of deposition captioned in the Sam Rotolo 24 case . 25 (Exhibit B was marked) ^.c C60777 0015 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 11 1 Exhibit B is the renotice of the taking of 2 deposition in the Sam Rotolo case, noticing the deposition 3 for today's date and time. 4 (Exhibit C was marked) 5 Exhibit C is somewhat unrelated to the anticipated 6 substance of your deposition testimony. Your attorney 7 produced this to me prior to the deposition and it refers 8 back to the deposition of Ray Sauer previously given on 9 behalf of Alcoa in the Sam Rotolo case. That deposition 10 occurred on April 27, 1995. 11 And an issue arose at that time concerning one or 12 more of the exhibits that were produced. There were code 13 references to the entity FMC Corp. Exhibit C appears to 14 be the code definitions related to the customer numbers of 15 FMC Corp. 16 Is that a fair representation? 17 MR. REED: That is correct. There are actually two 18 customer numbers on the page in the upper left-hand 19 corner. The top number is the number, the top number on 20 these pages appears in various places on exhibit G of the 21 Ray Sauer deposition. That number relates to the address 22 that is set forth immediately below the two numbers. 23 Below the top number is the same number on all of these 24 pages and that number ends in the digits 116 and it is a 25 general code number for FMC Corporation as a whole. C607770016 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 12 1 MR. WAGNER: Thank you. Also appears those would 2 be the same references that appear on exhibit F as well. 3 MR. REED: That's correct. 4 MR. WAGNER: Also as a housekeeping matter, we 5 discussed before your deposition a couple of issues that 6 arose at the time of Mr. Sauer's deposition. And we had 7 met and conferred concerning my request referring to 8 exhibit G from Ray Sauer's deposition for the remaining 9 years '74 through '92 summarizing sales by Alcoa to FMC 10 Corp. in a summary form, not in the detailed printout form 11 of exhibit G. That was one request that I discussed. 12 Another request was for any competitor listings 13 generated by the sales departments of Alcoa concerning 14 estimated sales and marketing projections concerning 15 competitors of .Alcoa that would have been in the market of 16 selling aluminum or aluminum oxide products to FMC Corp. 17 I believe you indicated you would take a look to see if 18 those documents can be located. 19 MR. REED: Yes, sir, I neglected to do that after 20 the last deposition and you have my apologies. 21 MR. WAGNER: The first issue we met and conferred 22 on, one is the asbestos study. I believe that discussion 23 occurred at page 70 of Mr. Sauer's deposition. He 24 indicated there was at one point in time a survey that had 25 been conducted by Alcoa that indicated it had not ^ C60777 0017 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 13 1 manufactured asbestos-containing products. I think you 2 indicated you had conducted a search for such a document 3 and were unable to locate it. 4 MR. REED: So far that is correct. As ideas occur 5 and we think of new places to look, we will continue to I 6 look. But it's been a long time since that study was 7 completed. a MR. WAGNER: All right, sir. I apologize for all 9 that, but we will now move on to your deposition. 10 Q. Can you tell me when you graduated from high n school. 12 A. 1966. 13 Q. Do you have any formaleducation beyond high 14 school? 15 A. I have an under -- well, B.S. degree from 16 Vanderbilt University in biology. Graduated in 1970. 17 Also have a graduate degree in toxicology which I 18 completed -- actually, I was in the working world, but I 19 completed in, I believe it was October of 1978. 20 Q. Is ittrue that youattendedVanderbilt 21 University continuously from 1966 to 1970? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And you obtained a B.S. in biology from 24 Vanderbilt in 1970? 25 A' YeS' * C60777 0018 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 14 1 Q. Your graduate degree in toxicology, you 2 obtained that in October of 1978? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. From what -- 5 A. University of Kansas -- 6 Q. -- institution? 7 A. -- Medical Center. 8 Q. What was the name or designation of that 9 degree that you obtained? 10 A. I can't recall. Probably would have been an 11 M.S. degree in pharmacology. But in those days it was 12 really synonymous with toxicology. 13 Q. That was not a Ph.D. 14 A. No, it was a master's degree. 15 Q. When was it that you attended University of 16 Kansas? 17 A. It was in -- I'm not sure of the exact start 18 date. Probably a year and a half prior to graduating in 19 1978 . 20 Q. Did you attend that schooling full time? 21 A. No. 22 Q. During the period of time -23 A. I was working, C607770019 24 Q- Is it fair to say, then, from approximately 25 early to mid 1977 through October of 1978 you attended on TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 15 1 part-time basis the University of Kansas in furtherance of 2 your M.S. degree? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Now, aside from the B.S. and the M.S. degrees 5 that you have identified for us, do you have any other 6 formal education, whether you obtained a degree or not? 7 A. I went to medical school at Vanderbilt for 8 two years from 1970, I think through '72 but had no 9 interest in continuing so I just discontinued that. 10 Q. Did you complete two full years of the M.D. 11 program at Vanderbilt? 12 A. Yes. I think I was actually in my third and 13 that's when I decided I wasn't going to pursue it. 14 Q. Can you recall what the projected duration of 15 that M.D. program was at Vanderbilt? How much longer did 16 you have to do? 17 A. It would have been another probably two 18 years. 19 Q. Did you complete any portion of the third 20 year? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Was there any study of toxicology or 23 toxicological effects that you can recall during the 24 course of study at Vanderbilt? 25 A. Well, you take your basic sciences in C60777 0020 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 16 1 biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, pathology. So, it's 2 kind of indirectly related to toxicology. 3 Q. Can you recall any course of study that had 4 as a topic the toxicological effects of aluminum or 5 aluminum oxide at the time you were at Vanderbilt studying 6 for your B.S. in biology? 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. Generally speaking can you describe the 9 course of study in furtherance of your toxicology degree 10 obtained from University of Kansas. 11 A. Yes. It was courses in pharmacology. But 12 then a lot of courses in toxicology related issues, 13 industrial toxicology, courses in neurotoxicity. My 14 graduate thesis was a study of pesticide distribution. 15 I actually lookfed at the carbamate insecticides. 16 Q. During this study at University of Kansas can 17 you recall any study involving the toxicological effects 18 of aluminum or aluminum oxide? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Can you describe for us what you can recall 21 in that regard. 22 A. It would have been just -- we took sections 23 of studies that dealt with metals, the toxicology of C60777 0021 24 metals and aluminum. Aluminum I'm sure would have been 25 reviewed, not probably in depth but as one of the metals TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 17 1 we looked at. 2 Q. Can you recall any of the materials that you 3 would have studied that would have addressed that issue? 4 A. Oh, the key reference that would come to mind 5 would be Cassarett and Doull's textbook on toxicology. 6 That was kind of a basic textbook we used. 7 Q. The title was what? 8 A. I don't recall the title. I do remember the 9 authors. It was Cassarett and Doull. 10 Q. Do you know when that was published? 11 A. No. 12 MR. REED: Excuse me a moment. Do you know how to 13 spell the authors? 14 THE WITNESS: C-a-s-s-a-r-e-1-1. That may not be 15 accurate. I know Doull is D-o-u-1-1. 16 MR. WAGNER: Q. Do you know if that would have 17 been a publication that came out sometime in the decade of 18 the '70s? 19 A. I can't recall with accuracy. 20 Q. Would you be able to recall any other course 21 materials that would have addressed the toxicological 22 effects of aluminum or aluminum oxide? And I'm still 23 focusing on the period of time at the University of 24 Kansas. 25 A. C60777 0022 I don't recall any other specific studies of TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 18 1 it during when I was in grad school. I just recall 2 references to metal toxicity in that textbook. 3 Q. Can you recall any study of metal toxicology 4 at the time that you were participating in the M.D. 5 program at Vanderbilt? 6 A. No, not related to aluminum. 7 Q. Aside from the M.D. program, the B.S. program 8 and the M.S. program that you identified for us, have you 9 participated in any other formal education beyond high 10 school? 11 A. When I decided I wasn't going to continue in 12 the med school I looked for some time to go into the Ph.D. 13 program in biology. I started it. And in about a month 14 or so I said this is of no interest to me. Because I had 15 been in the med "school so they could automatically 16 transfer me over there. But I had no interest in it. I 17 was there for probably a month and said no. 18 Q. When was that? 19 A. That would have been probably --I don't 20 recall the exact time frame. 21 Q. About 1972? 22 A. Shortly thereafter. Somewherein there. I'm 23 not recalling the exact time frame. 24 Q. That would have been at the university of 25 Vanderbilt? C60777 0023 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 19 1 A. Yes, Vanderbilt University. 2 Q. Aside from the courses of study that you have 3 identified for us on the record here today, can you 4 identify any other formal education that you have obtained 5 beyond high school? 6 A. How do you define education? ' 7 MR. REED: Or formal? 8 MR. WAGNER : Q. Formal education. I'm 9 focusing on institutes of higher education that you have 10 attended. 11 A. I have board certifications but it's not 12 formal education. I didn't go to school to get them. 13 Q. What licenses or certifications do you 14 possess ? 15 A. I'm'board certified in industrial hygiene and 16 I'm also board certified in toxicology. 17 Q. What board certification do you have in 18 industrial hygiene? 19 A. It's what they call the comprehensive 20 practice . 21 Q. When did you first obtain that? 22 A. I can't recall the exact date. It's in, 23 probably my best guess would be around 1980, somewhere in 24 that time frame. C60777 0024 25 Q. Have you held that certification continuously TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 20 1 since that time? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What is the name of the certifying agency 4 that certified you in industrial hygiene? 5 A. That's the American Board of Industrial 6 Hygiene. 7 Q. Was there an educational requirement for that 8 board certification? 9 A. Yes. You had to meet certain minimum 10 undergraduate and/or graduate curriculum in order to sit 11 for the exam. Plus you had to have, oh, a minimum year's 12 experience in the field practicing industrial hygiene. 13 Q. And you sat for the exam in 1980? 14 A. I don't recall the exact date. 15 Q. During what period of time have you been 16 board certified in toxicology? 17 A. I don't recall the exact date. It probably 18 was several years subsequent to that I took the boards in 19 toxicology. But I don't recall the exact date. I want to 20 say probably somewhere between 1980 to '83, somewhere in 21 there I took it. 22 Q. 23 A. 24 Hygiene . 25 Q. What board issued that certification? That was the American Board of Industrial C60777 0025 Can you recall the educational requirements J TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 21 1 for the board certification in toxicology? 2 A. I do not recall. 3 Q. And you would have sat for that exam in the 4 early 1980s. Is that what you indicated? 5 A. That's my best recollection. 6 Q. Do you have any other licences or 7 certifications? 8 A. No. I'm a member of Phi Beta Kappa, if that 9 is relevant. 10 Q. Do you have any other professional 11 organization memberships or affiliations? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What are those? 14 A. Well, I'm a member of the American Industrial 15 Hygiene Association. I was the past of the AIHA 16 toxicology committee. Still serve on that committee. 17 Q. During what period of time have you been a 18 member of an American Industrial Hygiene Association? 19 A. Probably started with my first job in hygiene 20 in '74 . 21 Q. And you have been continuously since 1974 a 22 member of the American Industrial Hygiene Association? 23 A. Yes. C60777 0026 24 Q. And the committee within that association, 25 the IAHA, is a committee for which you were the president. TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 22 1 Is that true? 2 MR. REED: I think it's the AIHA. Not the IAHA. 3 MR. WAGNER: Q. When were you president of that 4 committee? 5 A. I do not recall the exact dates. It goes 6 back probably five, seven years ago. Somewhere in that 7 time frame. 8 Q. When was it when you were president, when was 9 that? 10 A. I believe it was two-year -- excuse me -- one 11 year. I can't recall. Either one year or two years. 12 Q. Have you had any other professional trade or 13 organization memberships? 14 A. I'm a member of the local section of AIHA, 15 Pittsburgh section of the AIHA, which is kind of the 16 chapter affiliate. 17 I'm the past president of the Industrial Hygiene 18 Council which was in Pittsburgh. 19 I have served on other committees, ACGIH continuing 20 education. These come to mind. 21 Q. Can you recall any other committees you have 22 served on? 23 A. Well, we have committees through our 24 associations, like the Aluminum Association. But they are 25 more internal as opposed to, you know, out, external Q5Q777 0027 TOOKER & ANT2 415/392-0650 23 1 professional groups. 2 Q. You are a member of the Aluminum Association? 3 A. Well, yes, Alcoa is. 4 Q. How long have you been a member of that 5 association? 6 MR. REED: Objection, misstates the witness's 7 testimony. Alcoa is a member of the association. 8 MR. WAGNER: Q. You don't individually have a 9 membership? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Who are the members of the Aluminum 12 Association? 13 A. I don't know the full extent of that. 14 Q. Would that be all aluminum manufacturers? 15 A. I don't know to answer that. 0 16 Q. Do you know how long Alcoa has been a member 17 of the Aluminum Association? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Have you personally been a member of any 20 other professional organizations or groups aside from 21 those you have identified? 22 A. I can't recall any others offhand other than 23 I've given you. 24 Q. Aside from those that you have identified for 25 us do you have any other certifications or licenses? C607770026 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 24 1 A. I can't recall any other. 2 Q. Is there a continuing education requirement 3 for your industrial hygiene board certification? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. To your recollection what is that 6 requirement? I 7 A. Well, you must accrue a certain number of B what they call points per year. And on a six-year cycle 9 you have to accrue enough points to re-establish your 10 certification. So if you are not in active practice and 11 you don't attend the right number of training seminars, 12 then you could lose your certifications. 13 Q. Is it yourtestimony that you have complied 14 with that requirement -- 15 A. Yes?. 16 Q. -- continuously from '80 to thepresent? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And similarly, is there a requirement for 19 continuing education with regard to your toxicology board 20 certification? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Have you complied with that requirement? 23 A- Yes- C60777 0029 24 Q. Were you employed during the period of time 25 that you were going to school at Vanderbilt for your B.S. TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 25 1 in biology? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Upon graduation in 1970 were you employed? 4 A. No. Well, I worked as an intern -- or what 5 do you call it. I had like a school related job working 6 in, doing surgery on dogs. I don't recall the exact title 7 of the job. It was like a grant through the school. 8 Q. What was your next job after that? 9 A. Well, my first professional job was, started 10 with OSHA in 19, let's see February of 1974. And I was an 11 industrial hygienist. 12 Q. That was your title at that time? 13 A. Probably would have been compliance officer. 14 I don't know what the exact title was. 15 Q. You were at this time a board certified 16 industrial hygienist, however? 17 A. No. 18 Q. What duties did you have with OSHA as a 19 compliance officer? 20 A. I conducted inspections of many different 21 industries. I had supervision by more senior resources, 22 but I conducted compliance inspections. 23 Q. What industries can you recall having 24 responsibility for when you were a compliance officer with 25 OSHA? C60777 0030 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 26 . 1 A. Oh, multiple industries. Refineries, steel 2 mills, many different types. 3 Q. And focusing on steel mills, for example, as 4 a compliance officer what duties would you have? 5 A. Oh, we would go in and do inspections, either ) 6 employee complaints or general inspections. We would 7 quite often be taking air samples, measuring various 8 physical and/or chemical agents. 9 Q. How long was it that you acted as a 10 compliance officer for OSHA? 11 A. I left that job, I was probably there about 12 14 months. 13 Q. What was the location of your employment 14 during that period of time? 15 A. Kansas City, Missouri. 16 Q. And in what geographical area can you recall 17 conducting inspections? 18 A. Well, each office had a region. I can't 19 recall the extent of my territory. It was primarily 20 Kansas. Primarily Kansas. There may have been other 21 contiguous states we looked at. Kansas, Missouri, I 22 recall going into those geographic areas. 23 Q. Can you recall inspections at any aluminum 24 manufacturing sites? 25 A. I can't recall. ,, C607770031 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 27 1 Q. During that period of time when you were a 2 compliance officer with OSHA can you recall any 3 regulations in place with regard to aluminum manufacturing 4 sites? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Can you recall the name of those guidelines 7 or regulations? 8 A. Key ones would have been the OSHA TLVs, which 9 dealt with various chemical substances, would have been 10 germane, nuisance dust limits, et cetera. 11 Q. What are the TLVs? 12 A. Those are the threshold limit values. 13 A better acronym would be PELs, which would be the 14 permissible exposure limits. 15 Q. As*a compliance officer with regard to your 16 inspections, part of your duty would be ensuring 17 compliance with the TLVs? 18 A. I wouldn't say ensuring compliance. It's 19 gauging companies, whether they are in compliance, not to 20 ensure they are there. It's a measurement of are they 21 doing compliance related activities or not. 22 Q. Were you a compliance officer throughout the 23 period of time that you worked at OSHA for those 14 24 months ? 25 A-Yes. C60777 0032 -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- i TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392- 0650 28 1 Q. Did you have any other duties from those that 2 you have identified for us? 3 A. Not that I can recall. 4 Q. Can you recall any training that you had at 5 OSHA during that period of time? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Can you describe generally speakingwhat 8 training you can recall. 9 A. I recall attending about a month-long course 10 in Chicago that dealt with a myriad of different OSHA 11 compliance issues. 12 Q. Was that in 1974? 13 A. To the best of my recollection. 14 Q. 15 at OSHA? Do you recall any other training that you had 16 A. No . 17 Q. What was your next job after you left OSHA? 18 A. I went to work for Farmland Industries in 19 Kansas City, Missouri. 20 Q. What was your title? 21 A. I was the industrial hygienist. I worked in 22 the safety department but had accountability for all 23 industrial hygiene for Farmland. 24 Q. What type of company was Farmland at this 25 time? C60777 0033 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 29 1 A. Farmland was a diverse manufacturing company 2 that basically supported the agricultural business. They 3 did everything from making ammonium fertilizer, to 4 formulating pesticides, to producing ammonia, to running 5 grain elevators. It was a broad, diverse manufacturing 6 organization. 7 Q. Was there any involvement of Farmland at that 8 time to your knowledge in the manufacture of aluminum or 9 aluminum alloys? 10 A. We had some welding operations. But I can't 11 recalling what alloys were welded on. 12 Any type of industry will have some maintenance 13 welding involving aluminum -- 14 MR. REED: Listen to the question. Did they 15 manufacture aluminum? 16 THE WITNESS: No, they did not manufacture 17 aluminum. 18 MR. WAGNER: Q. Did your responsibilities as an 19 industrial hygienist at Farmland involve in any way 20 industrial hygiene activities involving aluminum or 21 aluminum oxide or alloy products? 22 A. Not from a direct manufacturing context. 23 Q. Did you have any responsibility with regard 24 to those products as the industrial hygienist for 25 Farmland? C60777 0034 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 30 1 A. The only connection that would come to mind 2 would be maintenance operations where people would weld, 3 where they might weld on or with aluminum. 4 Q. Can you recall any regulations or guidelines 5 in place at Farmland during that period of time with 6 regard to those activities? 7 MR. REED: Objection, whose regulations? 8 MR. WAGNER: Q. Any that you can recall in place. 9 A. I do not recall specific regulations that are 10 germane to aluminum when I was at Farmland. 11 Q. Is it accurate to say you began with Farmland 12 in about the middle of 1975? 13 A. To the best of my recollection. 14 Q. And you continued with Farmland for how long? 15 A. I -went from Farmland to Alcoa in April of 16 1979 . 17 Q. Throughout the period of time you worked for 18 Farmland what was the location of your employment? 19 A. Kansas City. North Kansas City, Missouri. 20 Q. Throughout that period of time, '75 to '79, 21 were you continuously employed as an industrial hygienist 22 for Farmland? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What was your job title when you first went 25 to work for Alcoa? C60777 0035 TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 31 1 A. Either staff industrial hygienist or staff 2 industrial hygienist and toxicologist. I do not recall 3 the exact title. 4 Q. Were you board certified in either industrial 5 hygiene or toxicology at the time you first went to work 6 for Alcoa? 7 A. No. 8 Q. What were your job duties when you first went 9 to work for Alcoa? 10 A. They were various. I was involved in field 11 service for industrial hygiene. I coordinated the FDA 12 compliance program. I was involved in writing MSDSs and 13 product labels. I was accountable for the urinary 14 chloride surveillance program. Those are the ones that I 15 recall. 16 Q. When you first went to work for Alcoa what 17 was the location of your employment? 18 A. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 19 Q. Have you been continuously employed at that 20 same location since 1979? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What is the address of your employment there? 23 A. Aluminum Company of America, 1501 Alcoa 24 Building, Pittsburgh, PA 15219. 25 Q. What field service duties did you have at TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 32 C60777 0036 1 Alcoa when you went to work as a staff industrial 2 hygienist? 3 A. Well, it was to go out in to the plants and 4 work with them on program development, industrial hygiene 5 compliance issues, establishing programs with a focus on 6 industrial hygiene. 7 Q. What type of plants can you recall visiting 8 at that time? 9 A. Very diverse group. Smelting operations, 10 alumina production, rolling mills, extrusion plants, 11 closure plants. I'm sure there's many more. 12 Q. Can you recall regulations or guidelines in 13 place concerning exposure or hazards relating to aluminum 14 exposure? 15 MR. REED: Again, regulations authored by whom? 16 MR. WAGNER: Q. Any regulations in place at the 17 time you were a field service staff industrial hygienist. 18 MR. REED: Objection, I don't know what a 19 regulation is. I don't know what you mean there. It's 20 vague and ambiguous. 21 MR. WAGNER: Q. Are you able to respond, sir? 22 MR. REED: Are you? 23 THE WITNESS: Well, when I came to work, obviously 24 I quickly became involved with understanding OSHA 25 compliance activities related to aluminum. TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0037 1 MR. WAGNER: Q. Had you been familiar with those 2 at the time you were employed with OSHA? 3 A. I can't recall. 4 Q. Aside from OSHA regulations or guidelines 5 that you can recall, do you recall any other regulations 6 or guidelines which pertained in any way to exposure 7 related to aluminum? 1 8 MR. REED: Object to the form. The last question 9 was, I believe that the last question, Rick, you stated 10 that it was regulations concerning the production of 11 aluminum. Now you have asked about the exposure of 12 aluminum. 13 MR. WAGNER: Q. Did the OSHA regulations pertain 14 to exposure or hazards related to aluminum that you can 15 recall? 16 A. Yes. But very indirectly. 17 Q. What do you mean by that? 18 A. Well, aluminum metal was considered a 19 nuisance particulate. Therefore, OSHA had no specific 20 limits on aluminum. So the regulatory activity that would 21 apply to aluminum was indirect through what we call a 22 nuisance dust standard. 23 Q. To your knowledge has that nuisance dust 24 standard ever changed since that time? 25 A. This is somewhat convoluted but I'll take you TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 34 C60777 0038 - 1 through the discussion. It may be difficult to follow. 2 Aluminum has never been viewed by OSHA as not being 3 a nuisance dust. During the middle to late '80s there was 4 an activity that OSHA went through to try to incorporate 5 the ACGIH TLVs as their standard for exposure into the 6 OSHA standard, which the nuisance dust limit for aluminum 7 was 15. The ACGIH number for particulates was 10. There 8 was a period of kind of a flip-flop between whether the 9 nuisance limit was 15 or 10. There has been subsequent to 10 that extensive litigation where now we're really back, 11 from a regulatory compliance standard perspective, to 12 dealing with 15. 13 Q. Has the limit ever been 10 to your knowledge? 14 A. I don't believe that when the incorporation 15 of the ACGIH took place, I do not know legally since it 16 was a, in the nuisance category, whether it was 17 incorporated by OSHA as a defined limit for aluminum. It 18 would have fallen under the nuisance particulate. And I'm 19 not sure OSHA had regulatory jurisdiction to cite under 20 that. 21 Q. What is ACGIH? 22 A. American Conference of Governmental 23 Industrial Hygienists. 24 Q. When you say 10 or 15 as being the limit, 25 what increment are you referring to? What measurement? TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 35 C60777 0039 1 10 what is this? 2 A. This is a measurement of the dust that would 3 be suspended in the air. The particulate suspended in the 4 air. 5 Q. What measurement are you referring to? 6 A. I'm not clear on the question. 7 Q. When you say 10, what do you mean by 10? 8 MR. REED: Is it 10 pounds, 10 tons, 10 ounces? 9 THE WITNESS: 10 milligrams -10 MR. WAGNER: Q. Just so clear we're clear. 11 A. -- per cubic meter of air. 12 Q. What responsibility did you have with regard 13 to generating MSDS at the time you were a staff industrial 14 hygienist beginning in 1979? 15 A. Prior to any OSHA HazCom activity, it was not 16 uncommon for us to have MSDSs developed for certain 17 aluminum and/or Alcoa products. 18 Q. What was your participation with regard to 19 generating the MSDS? 20 A. I was responsible for, with input from 21 others, to coordinate the development of those sheets and 22 particularly as related to the content of the health 23 hazards section. 24 Q. Was the 15 exposure limit incorporated in the 25 MSDS to your recollection at that time? TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 36 C60777 0040 1 A. I believe so. 2 Q. Can you ever recall participating in 3 generating a MSDS that had the 10 exposure limit 4 incorporated? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. When did that occur? 7 A. I can't recall the exact date. 8 Q. What is the current exposure limit that is 9 incorporated in the MSDS? 10 A. We list probably two. 11 Q. Two as being the limit? 12 A. No, no, we list two different limits. We 13 will list, because of the court litigation around the OSHA 14 incorporating the ACGIH, we will list the 15. In addition 15 to that we will also list the ACGIH limit of 10. 16 Q. When was that policy adopted? 17 A. I can't recall the exact time frame. It 18 probably -- this is speculation, would probably be the mid 19 '80s. But I don't recall the exact. 20 Q. Do you have an opinion as to the appropriate 21 exposure limit? 22 MR. REED: Objection, this witness is not here as 23 an expert witness and I will not allow him to answer that 24 question. 25 MR. WAGNER: Q. What participation did you have TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 37 C60777 0041 1 with regard to generating product labels as a staff 2 industrial hygienist beginning in 1979? 3 A. I was involved in creating labels for select 4 products at that time. 5 Q. Did you have any involvement with aluminum 6 product labels at that time? 7 A. I can't recall the exact time when I got 8 involved with aluminum labels but it could very well have 9 been in that time frame. 10 Q. What involvement can you recall with aluminum 11 labels? 12 A. Well, I have a clear memory when the OSHA 13 Hazard Communication standard came in place, which was in 14 the mid '80s, that we were then creating labels for all 15 different types of aluminum products. 16 Q. What was the OSHA Hazard Communication 17 standard adopted in the mid '80s? What were you referring 18 to there? Would you define that for us. 19 A. Well, OSHA passed a regulation that required 20 MSDSs and product labels for numerous products that were 21 listed in their OSHA PELs and/or other documents, ACGXH. 22 Q. Is it your recollection that before that time 23 aluminum was not required to have an MSDS or labeling 24 under OSHA requirements? 25 A. Yes. TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 38 C60777 0042 Q. Do you have any understanding as to why aluminum was added to that requirement by OSHA for an MSDS and labeling? MR. REED: Objection, I think we need to establish whether aluminum itself was added to that particular list. MR. WAGNER: Q. Was aluminum itself added to that list? A. 1 As my memory serves me, they incorporated the existing lists that were already out there which included nuisance particulates as well as other compounds. Q. So at this time was it just a reference to nuisance particulates that was added for requirement of MSDS and labeling? A. Well, if the substance was subject to coverage then you discussed the health effects. And in those time frames we viewed aluminum as a nuisance particulate. Q. What was your next title with Alcoa after you were staff industrial hygienist? A. I was promoted to a senior staff position. Q. When was that? A. I don't recall the exact date. Q. Would that have been in the decade of the 1980s? A. Yes. TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 39 C60777 0043 1 Q. Early '80s? 2 A. Probably within a year or two of coming on I 3 would have probably gone to that position. So it should 4 have been in the early '80s. 5 Q. What was your title at that time, senior 6 staff industrial hygienist? 7 A. Yes, and/or toxicologist. I don't recall the 8 specifics. Probably was senior staff industrial hygienist 9 and toxicologist. 10 Q. How long did you hold that title? 11 A. I don't recall the exact time frame. 12 Q. Would you be able to estimate whether that 13 was, for example, through the mid '80s? 14 A. My best recollection was a couple years and 15 then I was promoted to a manager's title. 16 Q. What was your title at that time? 17 A. I don't recall the exact title. It was 18 manager of -- I don't recall the exact nomenclature. 19 Q. What responsibilities did you have? 20 A. Similar to what I had had in the past but I 21 was picking up some supervisory responsibilities. 22 Q. What responsibilities did you have as senior 23 staff industrial hygienist? 24 A. Not terribly different than what I had before 25 except just the job was growing in scope. I now had, as I TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 40 C$0777 0044 1 recall, one or two people working with me to help me on 2 different elements of the program. 3 Q. What was your next title with Alcoa? 4 A. My best recollection is I was promoted to 5 manager of health and safety compliance. That occurred 6 probably, I'm saying, my best recollection is five, four 7 to five years back. 8 MR. REED: Four to five years ago or four to five 9 years after your previous promotion? 10 THE WITNESS: Cut it either way, you are going to 11 get to the same point. 12 MR. WAGNER: Q. About 1990? 13 A. Somewhere in that time frame I became manager 14 of health -- no, it was a little later. Be probably in 15 the '92 range. In the manager level prior to that I had 16 several promotions. I don't recall if my title really 17 changed but I was being promoted along pretty fairly well. 18 Q. You first had a manager's title in 19 approximately mid 1980s? 20 A. To the best of my recollection. 21 Q. Until 1992 what job responsibilities did you 22 have throughout those manager title jobs? 23 A. Well, my supervisory responsibility grew 24 steadily through that. I picked up reporting 25 relationships to most of the hygienists. So my TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 41 C60777 0045 1 administrative or subordinate reporting relationships grew 2 through that time frame. 3 Q. Was there any other change in your job 4 responsibilities during that period of time up until 1992? 5 A. I was much more involved in management 6 decisions. I was on all different types of steering 7 teams. Just much more involvement in policy and 8 direction. i It was kind of the growth they were giving me 9 and then having people below me, reporting associates do 10 more of the hands-on. But I was still very active in the 11 technical side of it. 12 Q. Then in 1992 when you became manager of 13 health and safety compliance, how did your job change? 14 A. Well, that's kind of what I was referring to. 15 I was more involved now in policy and direction. 16 Basically, I stayed pretty much in the hygiene 17 area, the tox area and the FDA management and the MSDS 18 labeling. All those activities I have pretty much been 19 fairly well contiguous with and had involvement with up 20 until very recently. 21 Q. What responsibilities did you have with 22 regard to FDA management? 23 A. I coordinated all program development 24 throughout the corporation on food and drug compliance. 25 Q. What specifically would that involve? TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 42 C60777 0046 1 A. Well, Alcoa is very big in making materials 2 that go into the food industry as far as packaging. We 3 make beer and beverage can sheets. We make bottle caps. 4 We sell aluminum in products that get into certain 5 markets. It's a very regulated area. So there is a lot 6 of, lot of activity. 7 Q. Have your job title or duties changed at all 8 since 1992 when you became manager of health and safety 9 compliance? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What was the next change? 12 A. Probably about, probably about two years back 13 I was promoted to manager of industrial hygiene and 14 toxicology. And then I have been promoted since then. 15 Last month, or actually, this month. 16 Q. Congratulations. What was the promotion to? 17 A. I don't know if it was a promotion. No, 18 it's, I'm like a group leader now and I oversee both 19 people and safety. But I oversee health and I also 20 oversee medical people, nurses and environmental people 21 with a focus on technical consultation. In other words. 22 providing technical consultation throughout the 23 corporation. 24 The other thing I should point out, when I was 25 promoted to the manager of industrial hygiene and TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 43 C60777 0047 1 toxicology, I also assumed the responsibilities for what 2 we call our environmental health laboratory which does all 3 analysis for hygiene samples. 4 Q. And that's also located at the Pittsburgh 5 location where you are employed? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Where is that? 8 A. It's in our technical center in New 9 Kensington. 10 Q. In what state? 11 A. Pennsylvania. 12 Q. What is your title at present? 13 A. I'm still called manager of industrial 14 hygiene and toxicology. I don't know whether they will 15 change it. I don't know if they caught up with that. 16 Q. Vice president it sounds like? 17 A. No. 18 MR. WAGNER: Let's go ahead and take a break. 19 (Break in proceedings) 20 MR. WAGNER: Q. I would like to direct your 21 attention to exhibit A. Have you seen this document 22 before today *p 23 A. Yes . 24 Q. When was the first time you saw this 25 document ? TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 44 C60777 0048 1 A. I don't recall the exact date. I don't 2 recall the exact date. 3 Q. Excluding anything you may have talked about 4 with your attorney, were you asked to conduct a search for 5 any documents identified or called for in this document? 6 A. Excuse me, can you repeat the question. 7 Q. Yes. I'm just excluding anything you would 8 have talked about with your attorneys. Can you tell me if 9 anybody else asked you to look for any documents 10 identified in this exhibit A? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Did you talk to anybody aside from your 13 attorneys about this exhibit A? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Who was that? 16 A. Well, it's people in my organization that 17 helped or did searches subsequent to my attorney asking me 18 to get involved. 19 Q. Can you identify on page four of exhibit A 20 any search for documents that you conducted responsive to 21 category number 16? 22 A. I don't recall making any searches. 2 3 MR. REED: I'm going to object to that. We have 24 already responded to that in our formal written response 25 to this request for production of documents. And our TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 45 C60777 0049 1 objection and response is on page eight of our formal 2 response. In essence it states several objections which I 3 won't go into here. And then it says, Alcoa has no 4 knowledge of any Workers' Compensation claims filed 5 against it related to loss of pulmonary function due to 6 aluminum exposure. 7 The reason I'm jumping in, other persons in the 8 corporation are more involved in what Workers' 9 Compensation claims were made. 10 MR. WAGNER: Q. Sir, do you have any knowledge as 11 to whether the statement just made'by the attorney here is 12 accurate? 13 I just want to know if you know have there been any 14 pulmonary impairment claims made by any workers of Alcoa 15 related to exposure to aluminum to your knowledge? 16 A. I'm just thinking. I do not recall any. 17 Q. Would you know the name of the individual or 18 individuals at Alcoa who would be most knowledgeable as to 19 whether any such claims had ever been made? 20 Again, I'm just focusing on category number 16. 21 A. Well, there would be several people because 22 it depends on your time frame. 23 Q. What individuals would that be? 24 A. Currently it would be our corporate medical 25 director, Dan Jaffe. Prior to him it would have been Dean TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 46 C60777 0050 1 Belk or Barbara Peters. 2 Q Do you know how you spell Dan's last name? 3 A J-a-f-f-e. 4 Q What is his title? 5 A He's the director of corporate health 6 services 7 Q And at what location is he employed? 8 A Pittsburgh. 9 Q How long has he been in that position? 10 A Slightly over two years. I believe it will 11 be three years in August. 12 Q And you believe he would be most 13 knowledgeable concerning any claims that potentially were 14 made responsive to category number 16 during that two year 15 period? 16 A Yes . 17 Q How do you spell Dean's last name, Belk? 18 A B-e-l-k. 19 Q And he works out of the Pittsburgh location? 20 A No. 21 Q Did he ever work out of that location? 22 A Yes . 23 Q When was that? 24 A I can't recall his exact starting date. 25 Probably a year or two before '79 would have been his TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 47 C60777 0051 1 start date And he left the company approximately three 2 and a half years ago, something like that. Three or four 3 years ago. 4 Q. Is he currently employed to your knowledge? 5 A. It's my understanding that he has another 6 job. 7 Q. Where does he work? 8 A. I do not know. 9 Q. What is the basis of your understanding that 10 he has another job? 11 A. Hearsay feedback from associates that he's. 12 he's got employment. 13 Q. What have they told you in that regard? 14 A. That he was back in family practice somewhere 15 in the southeast part of the U.S. Carolinas or somewhere. 16 Q. Is he a medical doctor? 17 A. Yes . 18 Q. Is Dan Jaffe a medical doctor? 19 A. Yes . 20 Q. Is Barbara Peters still with Alcoa? 21 A. No. 22 Q. When did she leave? 23 A. In the comparable time frame to Dean Belk. 24 Q. Do you know when she first worked for Alcoa? 25 A. A similar time frame to me, at least in the TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 48 C60777 0052 1 job she had. 2 Excuse me, let me back up. She was affiliated with 3 the health and safety organization probably in a similar 4 time frame to myself. 5 Q. That would be what? 6 A. I can't be specific. I would say through the 7 '80s she worked in the health and safety group. I don't t 8 recall the exact time frame. She got, she got -- she used 9 to be involved in coordinating Workers' Compensation, you 10 know, paperwork. 11 Q. When was it she left?12 A. Approximately the same time frame as Dean 13 Belk, but I do not know the exact date. 14 Q. Is she a medical doctor as well? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Do you know her current whereabouts? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you know if she was employed upon leaving 19 Alcoa? 20 A. I have no knowledge of her since she left the 21 company in terms of employment. 22 Q- Would you know if she's still in the 23 Pittsburgh area? 24 A. Ironically I saw her in the building a couple 25 days ago. So I don't know if she still lives here or was TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 49 C60777 0053 1 coming back to visit. I don't know what her intent was 2 but I did see her coming back in the building. I didn't 3 talk to her, though. 4 Q. Are there any other individuals currently 5 employed with Alcoa or previously employed with Alcoa that 6 you could identify as individuals that would be 7 knowledgeable if there had ever been aluminum related 8 pulmonary impairment claims made against Alcoa by its 9 workers? 10 MR. REED: Do you know anybody, is the question. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MR. WAGNER: Q. What other individuals do you 13 believe would be knowledgeable as to whether such claims 14 had ever been made? 15 A. It would depend on the time frame of when you 16 would want to know. 17 Q. How about the time frame before Mr. Belk and 18 Ms. Peters left. 19 A. The only person that I had firsthand 20 knowledge of that might be a contact person would be Burt 21 Dinman. 22 Q. Is he still with the company? 23 A. No. 24 Q. How do you spell his name? 25 A. D-i-n-m-a-n. TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 50 C60777 0054 1 Q. Do you know his current whereabouts? 2 A. When he retired from Alcoa, I believe he's 3 affiliated with the University of Pittsburgh in some 4 capacity but I don't know exactly what capacity that is. 5 Q. When did he work for Alcoa to your knowledge? 6 A. I don't know exactly when he started. He was 7 there when I was there from '79 through -- I'm not sure of 8 the exact date that he left. It would be conjecture as to 9 when he departed. 10 Q. Would that be in the decade of the 1980s? 11 A. It's late '80s or 90s he left. I don't 12 recall the exact dates. 13 Q. Is he a medical doctor as well? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Nobody has ever told you that Alcoa has had a 16 Workers' Compensation claim made against it for a 17 pulmonary function impairment related to aluminum exposure 18 of its workers. Is that true? 19 A. Would you repeat the question. 20 (Following question read: 21 Q. Nobody has ever told you that 22 Alcoa has had a Workers' 23 Compensation claim made against it 24 for a pulmonary function impairment 25 related to aluminum exposure of its TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 51 C60777 0055 1 workers. Is that true?) 2 THE WITNESS: I do not recall such an event. 3 MR. WAGNER: Q. With regard to category number 18 4 on page four of exhibit A, do you have that before you? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Have you conducted any search for any such 7 writings? 8 MR. REED: Again, object based upon the response to 9 category number 18, the term aluminum exposure here with 10 category 18 is not defined. Plus there's some other 11 objections that are written in our formal response which I 12 incorporate into this deposition by reference. 13 But ask the question again. I'm sure the witness 14 will try to answer it. 15 MR. WAGNER: Q. Have you conducted a search for 16 any documents you believe to be responsive to category 17 number 18? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What search was conducted? 20 A. Well, having worked there for so many years 21 it's just, we have a vast library of documents on the 22 literature of aluminum. I was constantly privy and 23 involved in that process. 24 To say a search, it's wasn't a search to go through 25 every document that we have that could be related to TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 52 C60777 0056 1 aluminum. But it was an attempt to go back and capture 2 key compendiums and summaries that reflect the state of 3 the knowledge. 4 Q. Who participated in that attempt to compile 5 those documents? 6 A. Several people who work for me. Karen Crawl. 7 Chris Dickson Ernst. Felicia Baird. Those are three 8 individuals who report to me. 9 We also have outside resources who work with us and 10 monitor the literature and the state of the knowledge of 11 aluminum. And I have contact with them on a periodic 12 basis. And in this particular incident search I was 13 involved with them as well. 14 Q. What group or individuals is that? 15 A. Key, the key person or the person that I made 16 direct contact with was a Dr. Jonathan Borak. 17 Q. Is he a medical doctor? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What group or business is he affiliated with? 20 A. It's my understanding that he runs his own 21 company. 22 Q. What company is that? 23 A. I don't have the exact title. It's Jonathan 24 Borak & Company or something like that. 25 Q. What type of business is that, to your TOOKER L ANTZ 415/392-0650 53 C60777 0057 1 knowledge? 2 A. He's a, does consulting work relative to 3 health issues of different, different projects. 4 Q. Was this the exclusive source of outside 5 resources that you were just referring to that you I 6 consulted? 7 A. No. 8 Q. What other outside resources did you consult 9 to identify documents or information responsive to this 10 category? 11 A. Well, I went back to one of my associates, 12 professional associates who works for other aluminum 13 companies, just refreshing my chronology of what has been 14 done in welding studies on aluminum. 15 Q. Who was that individual? 16 A. His name is Homer Cole. 17 Q. How do you spell his last name? 18 A. C-o-l-e. 19 Q. Where does he work? 20 A. Reynolds Metals. 21 Q. What other outside resources did you consult? 22 A. Well, we did some contacting of different 23 associations historically that would have had knowledge of 24 aluminum welding in the early years. 25 Q. What association?. C6Q7770058 ______________________________________ __________________ ______ _______ TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 54 1 A. I did not contact the associations directly. 2 People in my staff made contact with, to the best of my 3 knowledge, the American Welding Society. 4 Q. Are you aware of any other associations that 5 were contacted? 6 A. I went back in time to find out, we contacted 7 the ACGIH, which is the American Conference of 8 Governmental Industrial Hygienists, to find out when back 9 in time they started publishing limits on chemical 10 exposures. I did not make direct contact. Somebody on my 11 staff did. 12 Q. Who was that? 13 A. Chris Dickson Ernst. 14 Q. Who made the contact withthe American 15 Welding Association or Society? 16 A. To the best of my knowledge it was Chris. 17 Q. Were any other associationscontacted? 18 A. I don't recall any at this time. 19 Q. Aside from the search of the library by 20 Ms. Crawl, Ms. Dickson Ernst and Ms. Baird as well as 21 consultation of outside resources that you have 22 identified, are you aware of any other search that was 23 conducted for information or documents responsive to 24 category number 18? 25 A. Yes. _ C60777 0059 TOOKER & ANTZ 4 15/392-0650 55 1 Q. What additional search was conducted? 2 A. We made contact with people at our technical 3 center who had worked in what we called the joining 4 welding group, technical group for many years. One person 5 is still gainfully employed by Alcoa. His name is Ross 6 Grimes, G-r-i-m-e-s. 7 We also had contact with a gentleman named Paul 8 Dickerson, who has subsequently retired from Alcoa but had 9 worked with welding and welding practices in aluminum for 10 many years prior to his retirement. 11 We - - I have talked to them myself. Karen Crawl 12 has also talked to them. Trying to get some of the more 13 historical documents that talk about potential hazards, 14 primarily related to welding. 15 Q. In 'addition to the resources that we have 16 just discussed, was any other search conducted for 17 writings or information responsive to category 18? 18 A. It's my -- we looked through our, what we 19 call our archive files which are files which have been 20 boxed and sent off. 21 No, I correct that. That was primarily done in an 22 attempt for another reason. 23 Q. A different -- 24 A. Not for this. C60777 0060 25 Q. Would that be a different category of this TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 56 1 deposition notice? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Which one was that? 4 A. I don't recall whichcategory itwas. 5 Q. Was that for material safetydata sheets? 6 A. It would have been primarily, it looks like 7 category number 20. 8 Q. With regard to category number 18, aside from 9 the search that you have identified so far on the record, 10 can you recall anything else that was done to collect 11 information or writings responsive to that category? 12 A. Well, we have, we have our own personal files 13 that have a lot of toxicology data on aluminum. And we 14 have our own library, health library that keeps many of 15 the old reference books and documents on kind of a, oh, 16 rifled approach. I asked Chris and perhaps others to 17 chronologically capture key documents that would reflect 18 our state of knowledge of aluminum over time. 19 Q. Aside from what you have just identified for 20 us can you recall anything else that was conducted to 21 identify documents or information responsive to category 22 number 18? 23 A. We probably touched base with our C607770061 24 environmental health lab to see if they might have had 25 some records. I can't recall for sure whether that was TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 57 1 done. But it's possible they were contacted to see if 2 they may have stored records that weren't at the welding 3 group or something. 4 Q. Aside from everything you have identified can 5 you recall any other search that was conducted for > 6 documents or information responsive to category 18? 7 A. It's possible that Chris went on to, say, a 8 computer line, like an ATSDR or a Tomes system, and pulled 9 out the latest compendium. That is our online tox search 10 that we have. That would -- I expect, it wouldn't be a 11 surprise. I can't be sure of that. But I had one that 12 she pulled up that made reference to an ATSDR. That could 13 have been to go online and look. 14 Q. What is the ATSDR? 15 A. It's an acronym. I probably can't -- Agency 16 for Toxic Substance Disease Registry. It's an EPA group 17 that puts together profiles on chemicals. 18 Q. Aside from all that you have identified can 19 you recall any other search for information or writings 20 responsive to category 18? 21 A. Not at this time. 22 Q. With regard to category 18, what are you 23 aware of Karen Crawl having done to identify information 24 or writings responsive to that category? C$0777 0062 25 A. Key activity for her was to try to -- let me TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392 -0650 58 1 take that back. I'm not aware of anything that she did 2 specifically related to 18. 3 Q. She was involved in a different category 4 search? 5 A. Depends on how you define the categories but * 6 she was more directed toward category 20. 7 Q. With regard to any of the categories can you 8 identify what Karen Crawl's participation was in 9 identifying documents or information? 10 MR. REED: If you know. 11 THE WITNESS: Karen was primarily asked to search 12 the Boyer's caves, not to physically search but to contact 13 that group and find out what do we have in there about 14 labels, product labels. 15 She also made contact with the tech center trying 16 to define what they may have in their files. 17 Those were the key activities. 18 It's quite possible she was also overlapping into 19 18 . 20 MR. WAGNER: Q. The Boyer's cave, is that what you 21 said? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What is that? 24 A. Oh, it's a -- at certain times we store C60777 0063 25 documents that, you know, after, certain periods of time. TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 59 - 1 It's a place where documents that must be retained 2 forever, or at least for extended periods of time, are 3 kept. And you have index files that you can go in and 4 look. I'm sure that she was in that trying to develop 5 something around, you know, warnings relative to MSDS and 6 labels. 7 Q. Where is that located? 8 A. I do not know. 9 Q. Is that in Pittsburgh, to your knowledge? 10 A. In close proximity if not in Pittsburgh. 11 Q. Is that a third-party outside service to your 12 knowledge ? 13 A. I don't know for sure. 14 Q. In any event, that is a document archive 0 15 area. Is that true? 16 A. They could have changed their name. I knew 17 them as Boyer's cave. It's possible it's under new 18 management or been relocated. 19 I don't get involved in that much detail. But a 20 process where documents can be stored and retrieved. 21 Q. When you spoke to Jonathan Borak, what 22 information did he convey to you? C60777 0064 23 A. Well, he and I worked together for several 24 years. We just talked about -- since he does compendiums 25 on a periodic basis I was refrshing myself whether there TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 60 1 was anything that had not come to my attention that I 2 should be aware of that he was aware of around aluminum 3 toxicity. 4 Q. where is his company located? 5 A. Connecticut. 6 Q. When was it you worked together? 7 A. We worked together for several years. 8 Q. Was he employed with Alcoa? 9 A. No. He's a consultant to Alcoa. 10 Q. When you say you worked together, he was 11 employed as a consultant -- 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. -- for Alcoaduring thattime? 14 A. I didn't mean tointerrupt. Excuse me. 15 Q. Did he provide you any information that you 16 were not already aware of? 17 A. He provided me several bits and pieces that 18 were documents I may not have seen. 19 Q. What information was that? 20 A. He provided me a recent update on ozone that 21 I had asked a question relative to ozone. C60777 0065 22 He also provided me a couple literature references 23 that he had come across that -- those were the three 24 documents, couple, two or three documents that come to 25 mind that I wasn't intimately -familiar with or hadn't seen TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 61 1 that were helpful to me. 2 Q. Do you know at what location Homer Cole works 3 for Reynolds? 4 A. He is in their corporate office in Richmond, 5 Virginia. 6 Q. What information did he provide to you? 7 A. Homer had worked in industrial hygiene 8 several years longer than I. The primary reason I called 9 him was to get an update on some of the studies that had 10 been done on welding and aluminum prior to my coming on 11 board with Alcoa. I wanted to make sure I had in my mind 12 the chronology of studies that may be relevant to our 13 industry. 14 Q. Had Homer Cole ever been employed by Alcoa to 15 your knowledge? 16 A. No, he has not been employed by Alcoa. 17 Q. Did he in fact provide you copies of those 18 studies? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Did he identify any studies for you? 21 A. He identified nothing that I was not already 22 aware of. 23 He was helpful in telling me the time frame for one 24 study that I was, I was aware of but I didn't know exactly 25 when it was done or completed.. 700KER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0066 62 .1 Q. At what location does Ross Grimes work? 2 A. He works at Alcoa Technical Center in New 3 Kensington. 4 MR. REED: Just for the record, I believe his name 5 is Ross Grimm. 6 MR. WAGNER: Grimm? 7 THE WITNESS: I can't be sure. 8 MR. WAGNER: Q. You said Grimes or did I write it 9 wrong? 10 MR. REED: He said Grimes. 11 MR. WAGNER: Q. Did you speak to him personally? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. When was that? 14 A. Relative to gathering information in the 15 last, oh, week or so we have communicated. 16 Q. What information did he provide to you at 17 that time? 18 A. Ross had worked with Alcoa for many, many 19 years. We were interested in learning in the older time 20 frames what kind of publications, et cetera, had been 21 communicated to perhaps our customers and what their state 22 of the knowledge was around time issues on aluminum and 23 welding and when people were cognizant of hazards. Those 24 sorts of issues. C60777 0067 25 Q. What information did he provide to you in TOOKER U ANTZ 415/392-0650 63 . 1 that regard? 2 A. He cited two key pieces of information. 3 Q. What information is that? 4 A. One, he let us know that Paul Dickerson even 5 though retired was still in the area and actively, 6 actively involved in welding, which was helpful. 7 He also was cognizant of some of the different AWS 8 publications that had occurred over time and was helpful 9 in giving us some leads as to where we would find some of 10 those historical documents. 11 Q. Did you speak to Paul Dickerson personally? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Where does he reside? 14 A. Somewhere in the Pittsburgh area. He is in 15 the Pittsburgh area code but I don't know exactly where. 16 Q. Is he employed there -- I thought you said he 17 was still actively involved with welding in some capacity. 18 A. He might have some relationship still with 19 Alcoa on a consulting basis but he is retired from Alcoa. 20 Q. Is he in the c 21 A. I do not know. 22 Q. Where was it t 23 A. I con tact ed hi 24 Q. Just call ed In 25 A. Wo . Ross was able, to give us his phone C60777 0068 700KER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 64 1 number. I had known Paul from before. 2 Q. What information did Paul give you? 3 A. Paul is very knowledgeable about the history 4 of aluminum in the aluminum industry going back quite a 5 long ways in time. 6 Q. What can you -- go ahead, I'm sorry. 7 A. He was helpful in giving us knowledge about 8 where we could get AWS documents and when they were 9 written. 10 He was helpful in giving me inside certain time 11 frames when certain health control practices were 12 implemented in the welding industry. 13 He was helpful in giving us information around 14 documents that Alcoa had prepared about welding aluminum 15 and safety precautions that go back quite far in time. 16 He knows a lot -- he personally had worked at FMC 17 over many years and was knowledgeable of the processes. 18 So he gave us, gave me some information that was helpful 19 to me prior to when I picked up the knowledge -- 20 Q. When -- 21 A. - - curve. 22 Q. Sorry? 23 A. 24 curve. 25 Q. The knowledge curve. When I came on the C60777 0069 Did he indicate when he had worked for FMC? TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 65 1 A. He did not work for FMC. He worked for Alcoa 2 but was a, a technical resource to FMC on welding and 3 helping them develop that, the welding business for 4 aluminum. He did not work for FMC to my knowledge. 5 Q. Did he indicate at what location or locations 6 he had assisted FMC? 7 A. He indicated that he had worked directly with 8 the facility in San Jose. 9 Q. During what time period? 10 A. He could not recall when I asked him the 11 exact dates. But he worked for Alcoa for 42 years. He 12 retired in the late '80s. So he felt that he was probably 13 involved with FMC at San Jose as far as back as the '50s. 14 Q. Did he indicate whether he had ever known an 15 individual by the name of Sam Rotolo? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did he give you any information about the 18 welding practices at that location? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What did he provide to you as far as 21 information in that regard? 22 A. Well, he indicated that welding occurred 23 there. It was what one would refer to in our vernacular 24 as production welding. And that welding was done in, was 25 done on various military apparatus, and that welding C60777 0070 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 _____________________________J 66 1 involved aluminum, and welding was conducted within 2 confined, what we call confined spaces. 3 Q. Did he cite you any documentation concerning 4 FMC at that location? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did he identify any otherindividuals 7 knowledgeable about activities at that FMC location? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Whatindividual orindividuals did he 10 identify? 11 A. The only name that I recall that stuck in my 12 head there was an individual named Schultz or something 13 close to that who was an FMC employee who had been a 14 member or representative on the American Welding Society 15 committees that Paul and others were affiliated with. He 16 indicated that since 1969 FMC had had people involved 17 directly in these various AWS committees which were 18 involved in setting standards around welding and safe work 19 practices. 20 He also mentioned to me the names of Alcoans who 21 were sales individuals who serviced FMC in San Jose. I do 22 not have those names with me. Q-23 You kept a note of them, however? C60777 0071 24 A. I don't recall whether I wrote them down. 25 But he mentioned the sales rep.that was with Alcoa and he TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 67 1 recalled their names. I don't know if I wrote them down 2 or not. But me mentioned several sales office -- salesmen 3 for Alcoa who worked in close contact with FMC. 4 Q. Do you recall the current whereabouts of any 5 of those individuals? 6 A. He did indicate that the first sales contact 7 he had passed away literally like in short, shortly after 8 Paul and he had gone to San Jose to build FMC. That 9 somebody else had replaced that sales manager. I don't 10 recall the status of that individual. 11 Q. To the best of your understanding he 12 identified two Alcoans responsible for servicing FMC in 13 the San Jose area? 14 A. Yes . 15 Q. Without calling Paul back would you be able 16 to come up with the name of that second individual? 17 A. I might have jotted it down on a piece of 18 scratch paper. I only discovered that contact in a 19 discussion with him very recently. So I might have that 20 name. 21 Q- Do you know if that individual is in the 22 state of California still? 23 A. I do not know. 24 Q. Dc youknow that individual's last known 25 whereabouts ? C60777 0072 .COKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 68 1 MR. REED: Do you know? 2 THE WITNESS: No. 3 MR. WAGNER: Q. By last known whereabouts, I mean 4 where Paul Dickerson last knew him to be located. 5 A. I don't recall specifically. 6 He did mention that there was a Sari Francisco sales 7 office that might have got moved to Seattle. It wasn't 8 clear whether it was the first guy that got transferred up 9 there or whether perhaps it was the second. But that's 10 the extent of whereabouts that I recall. It was a mention 11 of a San Francisco Alcoa sales office and Seattle sales 12 office. 13 Q. why don't we go through the documents you 14 have produced here today. They appear to be in an order 15 that would be recognizable to you. Is that true? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Why don't we go then to the documents in 18 whatever order is convenient to you. 19 The first group of documents is in a folder here 20 and I would like you to identify what is contained within 21 this folder. 22 MR. REED: Look through it, first. 23 (Break in proceedings) C60777 0073 24 MR. WAGNER: Sir, on the break we had a chance to 25 mark for identification purposes the groups of documents LOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 69 1 you produced here today, each of which is contained within 2 a folder. The folders we have marked as exhibits D 3 through I. 4 Within each of the folders appear to be groups of 5 documents that collectively have been stapled or bound 6 together and within each of the folders we will mark the 7 collective groups of documents numerically. 8 For example, in folder D, exhibit D-l, first group, 9 D-2, the next group of documents, and we will refer to 10 those as such in the deposition. 11 We have also reached an agreement that counsel for 12 Alcoa will take possession at the conclusion of this 13 deposition of the original exhibits to the deposition, 14 make a copy of these originals and return that copy to the 15 court reporter for inclusion within the record here. 16 Is that acceptable? 17 MR. REED: Yes, it is. Thank you. 18 MR. WAGNER: Of course, you have agreed to keep 19 these in the original form, not to remove any of the 20 documents that are attached at this point as exhibits to 21 the deposition. 22 MR. REED: I do indeed. C60777 23 (Exhibit D was marked) 24 MR. WAGNER: Q. Sir, can you identify for us what 25 the first document is within the exhibit D. And this is TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 70 1 document D-l. Can you identify for us what D-l is. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What is that? 4 A. Actually, you have two documents combined. 5 What these are is the American Conference of Governmental 6 Industrial Hygienists continually monitors the toxicity 7 and health effects of chemicals that they track. And the 8 two in our possession here are aluminum and aluminum 9 oxide. 10 And the purpose of these is for -- these -- this is 11 excerpted from what is called documentation of threshold 12 limit values. So as new information surfaces around the 13 health effects or toxicity of a compound, these things are 14 updated constantly, and if evidence comes along to suggest 15 that the limits'need to be lower because there are health 16 concerns, then this agency will propose a lowering of the 17 TLV. People from industry or government or academia can 18 comment. And based upon the signs they see they make 19 decisions about whether limits should change or not. 20 So these are the documents that, the 1994 21 documentations for both aluminum and aluminum oxide. What 22 they do, they list for you what limits are acceptable in 23 an occupational setting for exposure. This first one is 24 for a metal dusts, what we call welding fumes, and the 25 other one covers aluminum oxide. TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0075 71 1 Q. And this reflects the current TLVs as of 1994 2 for aluminum are what? 3 A. For the welding fumes defined as aluminum, 4 and, of course, aluminum oxide, which is more of the 5 particulate. It's like a white powder that is used in 6 smelting aluminum. 7 Q. This would also reflect the historical TLVs? 8 A. Yes. The thing below shows you the 9 chronology of compounds, when they began to track them. 10 For instance, in the case of aluminum it was in 1977 that 11 they begin to codify a limit. The reason you don't see an 12 earlier limit is there is probably nothing to suggest a 13 concern that would drive you to go to a lower number. 14 In the case of aluminum oxide, I can't tell you why 15 they started tracking it at an earlier date, or having 16 limits established at an earlier date. They started in 17 1946 . 18 The thing that is of interest is over time aluminum 19 has never dropped. And that suggests no concerns around 20 toxicity or health. 21 Q. The threshold limit has remained constant at 22 what? 23 A. Well, this gets a little convoluted. C60777 0076 The 24 ACGIH essentially recommends for nuisance particulates a 25 level of 10. OSHA stays at 15. Within our company we use TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 72 . 1 basically 10. I mean, and that's fairly standard in 2 industry today, to go with a 10 milligram per cubic meter 3 limit for a nuisance dust. So the distinction between 15 4 and 10 is really -- it's not a science base. It's just 5 how nuisance dusts were defined by different groups at 6 different times. 7 Q. Do you know how long Alcoa has gone with the 8 10 limit? 9 A. We made the conversion I think formally to 10 the best of my recollection in the mid '80s. But prior to 11 that we would have probably used 15. 12 Q. For aluminum oxide what limits are in place 13 at present? 14 A. We use the 10. 10 milligrams per cubic 15 meter. 16 Ironically, you can see where the drop between the 17 15 and 10 occurred. 50 correlates with 15 and somewhere 18 people began to shift to 10, the current OSHA limits, if 19 memory serves me right, when they lost the ability to cite 20 ACGIH at 15 for particulate. C60777 0077 21 Q- Do you know what the reference is to the 22 statement here, "containing no asbestos and less than one 23 percent crystalline silica," what is referred to there? 24 A. Well, I think the, the best way to describe 25 this is in certain select isolated cases in a multiple TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 73 1 process environment, for instance, like in the presence of 2 crystalline silica in the early days Shaver's disease was 3 reported which is a pulmonary type fibrosis. Because the 4 aluminum oxide was present but it was also present with 5 other materials. It was present with, say, asbestos or 6 crystalline silica. 7 What they are trying to say, if you have a work 8 environment to make the nuisance limit applicable to 9 aluminum oxide you have to be free of other toxic 10 contaminants that are considered to be more of a concern 11 than the aluminum oxide, or toxic, whereas aluminum oxide 12 is not. 13 Is that clear? 14 Q. Do you know if Alcoa has processed or sold 15 aluminum oxide products that contained asbestos 16 previously? 17 A. No, we would not. That would not be an 18 issue. 19 Q. What type of aluminum oxide products would 20 contain asbestos, to your knowledge? 21 A. None. Unless there was some process 22 contamination. I'm not aware of any aluminum oxide that 23 contains asbestos. Nor am I aware of any aluminum oxide 24 that would contain greater than one percent crystalline 25 silica? C60777 0078 '"OOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 74 1 Q. But historically you would be aware of 2 aluminum oxide. Is that fair? 3 A. I'm sorry, would you repeat your question. 4 MR. REED: Let me try. Was there ever a time when 5 aluminum oxide in any industry application throughout 6 history included either asbestos or silida? 7 THE WITNESS: The aluminum oxide did not contain to 8 my knowledge any asbestos or crystalline silica. It could 9 have been used in an industrial process where those 10 materials might have been, might have been present and 11 created some confusion about what the source of the 12 exposure was. Is that clear? 13 MR. WAGNER: Q. To your knowledge it has not been 14 used in such a setting by Alcoa in any time? 15 A. YeS, that is my knowledge. 16 An example here to illustrate is important. In mid 17 1940s, there was a, there was a disease referred to as 18 Shaver's disease. And when you made what was called 19 corundum abrasives you took mixtures of different 20 chemicals which included aluminum oxide and you formed 21 this abrasive corundum. They then went back and said what 22 is causing that problem. And the experts came to a 23 conclusion there was, a lot of crystalline silica was 24 present. C60777 0079 25 So when they saw fibrosis in the lung of some of rOOKER & ANT2 415/392-0650 75 -CKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 76 . 1 by him. And we worked with him because we know a lot of 2 the industrial processes. But the bottom line was that 3 there is no evidence today linking aluminum with 4 occupational pulmonary fibrosis. 5 Q. Do you know when this article was published? 6 A. I can't recall the exact date. It's been 7 within the last -- it's got to be within the last couple 8 of years. 9 MR. REED: If I can, can you tell us what you mean 10 by published . 11 THE WITNESS: Oh, this is not published in a 12 journal. This is a -- what this represents is a review of 13 the literature chat talks about aluminum. This is a 14 critical review of the literature and coming back to us 15 and saying is th'ere anything in there that we from our 16 industry should be concerned with. And I think the 17 summary here may be of interest. 18 MR. WAGNER: Q. Referring to page eight of exhibit 19 D-2, in the summation statement: There is no evidence 20 that alumina and other aluminum compounds other than 21 pyropowder are able to cause fibrosis in the lungs of 22 exposed workers. 23 What is pyropowder? C60777 0081 24 A. Pyropowder refers to a very unique process of 25 producing a fine aluminum powder that is used in rocket LOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 77 1 propellants, like in space craft. What happened is during 2 World War II in Europe there were a couple reported cases 3 of these pyropowders being linked to fibrosis. The issue 4 that was identified was they had changed the lubricants to 5 coat the, what we call the pyropowders. And once the 6 conversion came back to the stuff that was always used in 7 the States that problem has never been reported. Only 8 been reported during the war and they had to make some 9 production changes how they produced powders. 10 Q. Are you talking about a powder to increase 11 flame temperature, something like that? 12 A. Actually a powder used, I've seen it used in 13 some kind of paint pigments. Also used in rocket fuel 14 propellants. 15 Q. Thi's is not the same as -- 16 A. This is a very unique subclass of a certain 17 process in aluminum is what I'm referring to. 18 Q. Do you know if Alcoa has ever manufactured or 19 distributed or sold pyropowder? 20 A. We had an operation years ago that produced 21 what we call aluminate paste/powder. Yes, we do have a 22 powder operation. 23 Q. Was that to your knowledge ever sold to FMC 24 in San Jose? C607770082 25 A. I nave no knowledge of those products being TDOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 78 . 1 sold to them. 2 Q. The application of those products would just 3 be for paint coating materials? 4 A. I'm not an expert on the commercial markets 5 of pyropowder but I do not -- I can't -- I'm not an expert 6 on the commercial markets. 7 Q. So you wouldn't know one way or the other 8 whether pyropowders were ever sold to FMC in San Jose -- 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. -- by Alcoa? 11 A. I do not know the answer to that. 12 Q. What is D-3? 13 A. Oh, somebody in my group probably went in and 14 said give me an update on -- this is from a, an 15 environmental he'alth criteria document on aluminum, 1994. 16 Looking to see if there is anything in there that was of 17 concern. Kind of an update document. 18 Q. What information is reflected in this? 19 A. Well, I think the only thing that is 20 highlighted is there are kind of isolated case incidents 21 of where aluminum might have been related to some kind of 22 an issue. And they just highlighted one here that we had 23 been aware cf, of course. It was done, goes back to 1962. 24 Q. That looks like it's the second page of C60777 0083 25 exhibit D-3. What is the conclusion there that you are ITOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 79 1 referring to? 2 A. This is one of those type of powder issues 3 that we were talking about. This was an isolated case. 4 Has no statistical validity in terms of any kind of risk 5 issue. 6 Q. What is the next document, D-4? 7 A. It's another probably critical review 8 document that somebody went in and pulled up on aluminum 9 for me to scan. 10 Q. Whose writing is at the top of that? 11 A. I believe, fairly confident that is Chris 12 Dickson Ernst. 13 The one that is highlighted here is that, is the 14 Shaver's disease, which we have already talked about. 15 There is also reference, the same thing that John 16 Borak referenced, a couple isolated cases where 17 aluminum -- well, the Herbert one I'm familiar with 18 where -- and a single employee reported a certain type of 19 lung condition where aluminum plus other chemicals -20 excuse me -- yeah, aluminum plus other chemicals were 21 involved. 22 Here again, it's just like an isolated incidence of 23 that. We try re track those as well as, of course, the 24 big studies jnsr. so we're aware of them. 25 Q. And the next group of documents, D-5 I C60777 0084 '"30KER U ANTZ 415/392 -0650 80 . 1 believe. 2 A. This looks like it came from Chris Dickson 3 Ernst, ATSDR tox profile. Here again, just synopsis of 4 literature, compendiums of health effects and aluminas. 5 Q. Let's go ahead and continue with the list. 6 What is the next group of documents? 7 A. This is a document on pulmonary fibrosis that 8 was linked to a process where aluminum oxide was also 9 present. 10 Q. I think we're up to exhibit D-6. Can you 11 identify what this is? 12 A. I told you earlier that I talked to John. I 13 said, John, are you aware of any old studies or anything I 14 should be aware of around aluminum. He brought this one 15 to my attention.' He had written previously a critique of 16 this study, as well as the one previously, refuting the 17 connection to aluminum. 18 Q. Whose writing is this on this document? 19 A. That's some writing I put on there. 20 Q. what does that indicate, the writing? 21 A. It's raising a couple points. 22 There's only nine potential people out of a 23 thousand who are identified as having any kind of a, C60777 0085 24 quote, lunc question. And only three of those were even 25 biopsied. sc the statistical power of this study would be '"COKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 81 . 1 questionable. 2 In other words, nine out of a thousand is less 3 than, what, one percent. And then you have three out a 4 thousand that might even have something. 5 Plus the other point, these people were working 6 with all kinds of different chemicals. They weren't just 7 working with aluminum, aluminum oxide. 8 Q. what type of workers were they? 9 A. I'm not really sure what these guys were 10 doing. They were in a process here where there was 11 abrasive preparation for their processing bauxite. 12 Bauxite is the precursor to making aluminum oxide. 13 You can have crystalline silica issues with it. They talk 14 about doing all kinds of different things. Organic resin, 15 binding wheels. 'When you have that kind of heterogeneous 16 environment you certainly look at the studies but you try 17 to make, make an assessment as to whether they have any 18 significance to your industry. 19 The conclusion here was that wasn't the case. 20 Q. Next group of documents -21 A. D- 7. This is Jonathan Borak's critique -- 22 MR. REED: Wait. I'm sorry, I'm going to pull this 23 one, a letter rrom Jonathan Borak to me. I'm going to 24 have to pull this as privileged work product and C607770086 25 attorney-client material. Or as a report of an expert. TDOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 82 1 Isn't timely to be produced. 2 MR. WAGNER: You don't represent here that you are 3 the attorney for John Borak. 4 MR. REED: No. But I do represent that I was 5 working with a subcontractor of Alcoa and he at my 6 direction did undertake an investigation or me and he was 7 responding to my questions. 8 MR. WAGNER: We'll go on to the next document. 9 MR. REED: If you like, I can still mark this as 10 D-7. It's up co you. 11 MR. WAGNER: Why don't we call it D-7. It's a two 12 page document, if it comes up we intend to compel on that. 13 MR. REED: And I will put into the document folder, 14 I will put in a sheet that remarks that D-7 was removed at 15 my request because of my assertion of attorney work 16 product and other privileges. 17 MR. WAGNER: Okay, fair enough. 18 Q. The next group of documents, call that D-8. 19 A. This is a case or a publication of an 20 individual that had some, some link issues. It's an 21 isolated one person case. Apparently the person had done 22 some welding in his life and it was just published in the 23 literature. 24 As I said before, we just track these things and 25 keep an eye cr. them. DKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0087 83 Q.1 This indicates that it was faxed from 2 Mr. Borak. 3 A. Yes, that is correct. 4 Q. Is this your notation here? 5 A. Yes . 6 Q. what does that indicate? 7 A. Single isolated case. And what we're 8 referring to there, it's not like a study where you went 9 in and studied a hundred guys who were welding and there 10 is a statistical correlation with a pattern. It's just an 11 isolated case that somebody reported in the literature. 12 Q. Does that all go together here? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. The next group of documents, D-9, what is 15 this? 16 A. This is just a publication from the, looks 17 like a Scandinavian Environmental and Health. Scand 18 Journal of Work Environmental and Health 19 What they are doing here, people are interested in 20 tracking bio-uptake of welding fumes. This is a study 21 looking at trace concentrations of different welding fume 22 particulates from welders who were welding stainless steel 23 and aluminum. They are trying to see if they get any 24 investigative power out of using some sort of assessed 25 exposure. C60777 0088 :r?:<ER & antz 415/392-0650 84 1 It doesn' as my memory serves me, there aren't 2 any issues around aluminum causing any kind of a concern. 3 It's more of a gee, how can we develop a correlation 4 between fumes and blood concentration. 5 Q. Do you know the result of that? 6 A. Basically said that there is so much 7 variability, it's tough to make any sense out of it. 8 The other thing that was of interest to me it said 9 the concentration of zinc and magnesium in the breathing 10 zone of workers working on aluminum is low. It's, that's 11 of interest tc me. 12 Q. D-10 I believe is the next one. 13 A. This is just a kind of publication of 14 Environmental Health Perspectives. What we're trying 15 to -- we just pillled Environmental Health Perspectives 16 kind of a regular prestigious review thing that looks at 17 compounds. And this is a synopsis of aluminum that was 18 published in 1974. And it kind of reiterates our feelings 19 concerning aluminum. 20 Q. Do you know who the author of this study is? 21 A. Nc, I do not know. This was probably in a 22 book, a compendium of authors. 23 Q. The next document, D-ll?C60777 0089 24 A. This is a document that was published by the 25 American Welding Society apparently under a research grant & ANTZ 415/392 -0650 85 - 1 to look at the wel ding environment. And the section of 2 interest to us is the hygiene considerations of welding 3 fumes and gases. 4 And I think the important thing too, they put 5 together a process kind of flow diagram around the 6 different, the dif ferent constituents in welding fumes, 7 And they basically said that the aluminum particulate that 8 comes from welding with aluminum, they place the aluminum 9 in the harmless ca tegory or relatively harmless category, 10 It didn't fall ove r to a side linked with asbestos, 11 silica, asbestos o r beryllium. 12 Q. which side is that identified on in this 13 graph on page 10 o f exhibit D-ll. Is there a side with -- 14 A. what I'm saying, they looked at particulates, 15 looked at what the y call, classify as the pneumoconioses, 16 and they claim as harmful, the ones you would be concerned 17 about their toxici ty or health and the one they considered 18 to be, quote, rela tively harmless. And you will notice 19 that aluminum appe ars on the harmless list. Whereas 20 something like sil ica, beryllium or asbestos falls out in 21 a different cue. 22 Q. The ,n ext document D.12, C60777 0090 23 A. What this is, thi s is, I just said why don't 24 we go to the "libra ry and find out when people started to 25 be knowledgeabl- a bout hazards of welding and when people & ANTZ 415/392-0650 86 1 were taking precautions. And this was a publication 2 prepared by the U.S. Public Health Service, Industrial 3 Hygiene, NIOSH, calking about standard practices for 4 welding. And particularly relevant to making sure that 5 adequate ventilation was present when people welded. 6 Q. Was chis 1943 publication in the library of 7 Alcoa? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Do you know when it wasfirst included in 10 that library? 11 A. Oh, I have no idea when it made it to our 12 library. It's very possible it was there from people who 13 practiced hygiene years ago. Our library is fairly 14 extensive. 15 Q. Doe's thatconclude exhibit Dfolder? That 16 concludes what was in exhibit D. Is that true? 17 A. Yes. 18 (Exhibit E was marked) 19 Q. The next folder, exhibit E. Can you identify 20 the contents of chat folder. 21 A. This calks about ozone and also two studies 22 that Alcoa in conjunction with the Aluminum Association 23 have published on che hazardous releases when you weld on 24 aluminum. C60777 0091 25 Q firsc one we will call E-l. Why was it COKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 87 1 that 2 MR. REED: That's not all one document. 3 MR. WAGNER: Oh, isn't it? 4 THE WITNESS: There's actually two documents here. 5 MR. WAGNER: Q. Let's call the first document E-l. 6 Why was this produced? 7 A. Well, aluminum is not considered a health B hazard from welding. In the aluminum welding process you 9 do generate a gas called ozone which is a lung irritant. 10 And what this does is document what we know about the 11 concerns around ozone. 12 Q. What is the date of this document? 13 A. This is -- it's a good question. We don't 14 have a date on it. I presume it's probably -- I can't 15 speculate. 16 I can tell you where it came from. 17 Q. Would you know if 1987 is the date? 18 A. I'm not sure that's the date. 19 Yeah, I think you are right. Maybe it is. I don't 20 know. I can't answer that. 21 Q. Where did it come from? 22 A. This is a, from the American Conference of 23 Governmental Industrial Hygienists documentation of TLV. 24 Q. This would be excerpted from a larger 25 publication? C60777 0092 "COKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 88 1 A. Yes . That is a publication that lists 2 multiple different contaminants that exposure limits have 3 been established for, one of which is ozone. 4 Q. Let's identify what the next document is, 5 exhibit E-2. 6 A. What this was, I wanted to kind of review in 7 my own mind what was known about ozone. And this, John 8 Borak shared this document with me. This is a review of 9 ambient air quality standards for ozone that was published 10 by EPA. And the bottom line was that there's no studies 11 in man to show that ozone is linked to any kind of lung 12 fibrosis. 13 Q. Is that, whose writing is that in the column 14 on the second page of exhibit E-2? 15 A. This was on it when it came to me from John 16 Borak. I don't know who put that on there, whether he did 17 or one of his colleagues or contacts. But it's not my 18 writing. 19 Q. What is exhibit E-3? 20 A. This is a study that Alcoa funded through the 21 auspices of the Aluminum Association to study what are the 22 different gases that come off in aluminum welding, both 23 particulate and gases. 24 Q. And the date of this study? 25 A. This study is dated 1991. C60777 0093 KEF. & ANTZ 415/392 -0650 89 1 Well, excuse me. Looks like the study was prepared 2 October 15, 1990. I don't know why this date is '91. But 3 it may have been when it was officially codified. 4 Q. The reason why this was produced? 5 A. Well, we have an interest in aluminum welding 6 and making sure we understand in detail the potential 7 issues around it. So we periodically do studies looking 8 at what comes off a particulate, what kind of gases. 9 Another key issue of interest was the alloy agents 10 we use in aluminum. We are interested in knowing whether 11 they come off in levels that are of potential interest. 12 So we occasionally do studies. 13 I believe in this study if my memory serves me, we 14 were looking for things that, alloys that had lithium in 15 them and other Constituents, and how much, was there 16 enough there to come off, to be something we ought to be 17 concerned with as a corporation. 18 Q. And what is the next document? 19 A. This is a similar document, just done earlier 20 in time. This was done, this report was done in the early 21 '80s. Once again, it was a study of potential offgasing 22 and particulate evolution from aluminum welding processes. 23 Q- I think we're up to E-5, I think. 24 MR. REED: E- 4 . 25 MR. WAGNER: You are right. C60777 0094 77GKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 90 1 Q. Second study is E-4. 2 And what is the final document in the folder? 3 A. Unfortunately there is no date on it but I 4 remember what drove me. I said, Chris why don't you go 5 back into like the '60s, I believe this is published in 6 the '60s, and see what people knew about ozone in that 7 time frame. This was to kind of regauge what we knew 8 about ozone. 9 Q. Would you know what publication this was 10 excerpted from? 11 A. No, I don't know. Apparently we don't have 12 the other page. 13 Q. We have reviewed the entire contents of 14 exhibit E. Is that true? 15 A. YeS. 16 (Exhibit F was marked) 17 Q. Go to next folder, exhibit F. Again call the 18 first group of documents F-l. 19 Can you identify what exhibit F-l is. 20 A. Let me see what all is here first. 21 What we have here is a series of specifications 22 that are published by the American Welding Society that 23 talk about both welding in general but also have separate 24 publications that talk about aluminum and welding. 25 The key '.ting is these publications which go C60777 0095 j "OK^R Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 91 1 back -- this one happens to be 1969. 2 Q. We're looking at F-l now? 3 A. Right. And it talks about precautions that 4 one should take when welding to ensure that no hazards 5 exist. It defines the proper labeling for welding 6 electrodes. And it gives people precautions about what 7 they should be doing when they work in welding and 8 particularly with aluminum. 9 And it's kind of a, from what I understand, it's 10 kind of a subset document that also goes hand in hand with 11 the generic safety welding documents. 12 Q. And that in this group would be exhibit F-4. 13 Is that right, that is the fourth -- 14 A. No, these start here. 15 Q. I ' nr sorry. Exhibit F-3 and F-4. 16 Let's address exhibit F-2 now. This one. 17 A. What this is, this is the earlier, an earlier 18 version of that document. 19 Q. Exhibit F-l. 20 A. This F-2 is the 19 -- I believe, if you give 21 me a moment -- was issued in 1957 by the American Welding 22 Society. But it also is a specification document on 23 aluminum welding processes. C60777 0096 24 The reason I pulled this up was to show that even 25 as early as 1557 our industry was sensitive to potential :KER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 92 1 hazards in welding. And we had very tight controls to 2 make sure that beryllium was carefully controlled in 3 welding wire. Because we knew beryllium, if there were 4 high enough levels could be of concern. So we were very 5 interested in regulating issues on a very proactive basis. 6 There was no OSHA regulation at that time' but it was just 7 an attempt on our part to. 8 Q. You are referring in part to the fourth page 9 of exhibit F-2? 10 A. We had a specification that beryllium in 11 electrode wire should not exceed 0.00078 percent by 12 weight. 13 Q. As reflected on the next page of the exhibit? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. When you say the industry was sensitive, are 16 you including Alcoa in that? 17 A. Oh, absolutely, yes. 18 Q. Exhibit F-3 is what? 19 A. This is the, is the 1973 version of the 20 American Welding Society's Safety in Welding and Cutting. 21 What is in here, it has lengthy discussions about safety 22 and precautions to take in welding. It goes into issues 23 around ventilation, proper ventilation, labeling. 24 I want tc make sure before I say something. 25 Talks about the fact that you should control C60777 0097 SOKE?. & ANTZ 415/392-0650 93 1 concentrations against those limits, some of the limits we 2 have showed you before. It talks about labeling. Proper 3 ventilation. And -- 4 Hold a moment. I was looking for something else. 5 It also discusses alloying constituents that are 6 viewed as of concern. 7 For instance, you will see listings for compounds 8 like working in confined spaces. It tells you what, for 9 instance, ventilation is a prerequisite to working in 10 confined spaces. And it says, see section eight for more 11 details. Well, if you need anything else, there's all 12 kinds of information in here. 13 Then talks about some of the constituents in 14 welding that are not necessarily aluminum. It's not 15 concerned aboutaluminum but concerned about things like 16 beryllium, zinc, et cetera. 17 This is broader than just aluminum and welding. 18 Q. And exhibit F-4? 19 A. These are earlier versions of that document. 20 This is the 1957 version, whichever, and 1967 version 21 which was a revision of the 1958 version. And of 22 particular interest is, these documents talk about 23 standard practices in the industry around health 24 protection and ventilation. They talk about ventilation 25 in confined space areas. They talk about medical C60777 0098 TCCKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 94 1 surveillance that were industry practices at that time. 2 Q. And has the '58 version been produced as 3 well? 4 A. Yes. 5 Is that the same one? Yeah, it's all one. 6 This one is the 1958 -- excuse me.' Yes, I believe 7 that's the correct date. Let me double check. 8 This is the 1958, Z49.1. That's the code you will 9 see referenced. 10 Let me see that just a second. 11 This is the Z49.1 1958 version of the American 12 Welding Society's Safety in Welding and Cutting. 13 Q. And that is exhibit F-5? 14 A. The key thing to point outis back even in 15 that time frame -people were talking about standard 16 practices for welding in confined spaces. This section, 17 seven and eight, are key to where the industry was 18 supposed to be relative to welding in general. 19 And there's statements I was going to show you, 20 like working in confined spaces, ventilation is a 21 prerequisite to work in confined spaces. Then they talk 22 about ventilation requirements. Okay. 23 Q. Reference to use of asbestos flame proof 24 aprons. 25 A. Then they talk about -- it's how to, you C6Q777oogg COKER * ANTZ 415/392-0650 95 1 know, recommendations around ventilation, Once again, 2 they stress the importance of having adequate ventilation 3 when working in confined spaces. 4 Q. It appears this was received by facsimile 5 from the American Welding Society? 6 A. Yes, that's true. We could hot retrieve this 7 document in our historical files but we did contact them 8 to find it. 9 Q. Where are they located? 10 MR. REED: New York, New York. Address is on 11 second page of deposition exhibit F-4. 12 MR. WAGNER: Q. Is that where this was faxed from, 13 to your knowledge. 14 A. I'm not sure where this came from. Somebody 15 in my office retrieved it. 16 Q. The next document, F-6, what is that? 17 A. Well, this shows you how far back in time 18 they went with concerns about safety in welding. This is 19 I think the precurser of the AWS Safety in Welding. This 20 was an American war standard published in 1944 that talks 21 about the need tc use certain precautions in welding, 22 welding safety. Talks about work in confined spaces. 23 These documents just built on themselves as they 24 went through time. This was the first version and then 25 they upgraded and published it in I guess '58 and '67. 007770100 TOOKEE & ANTZ 415/392-0650 96 1 Here again they make reference to, for instance, 2 under section seven, work in confined spaces, ventilation 3 is a prerequisite for work in confined spaces. For 4 recommendation see 8.3. And you go to 8.3 and they talk 5 about that. 6 The other thing that is interesting is even back in 7 those days they were talking about making sure that fumes 8 were controlled to threshold limit type numbers. In other 9 words, long before regulatory OSHA came out standard 10 documents published, the welding industry was making 11 recommendations around what levels of exposure you should 12 control. 13 Q. That appears to conclude the documents in 14 exhibit F. 15 Can you identify those contained in exhibit G. 16 (Exhibit G was marked) 17 A. Make sure what I'm telling you I'm looking 18 at. 19 Q. Let's's just focus on the first one for now. 20 What is exhibit G-l? 21 A. This is a chronology of product labels that 22 Alcoa used on their electrodes that they sold 23 commercially. 24 Q- Ana the date of each of these warnings is 25 indicated where? ______ * C60777 0101 COKER u ANTZ 415/392-0650 97 1 A. For the first one, this is an indication that 2 a label -- I wouldn't necessarily state that this label 3 was not present prior to this time, but this is a 4 codification that the label was clearly around in 1971. 5 Follow? 6 Q. July 23rd, 1971? 7 A. I can't read that one number. That looks 8 like a perhaps it's an eight. It's hard to read. 9 Q. Can you tell when the next label would have 10 been in use? 11 A. Well, these are some notes that, 8/23/71 12 showing that, hey, there was a label. There was a label. 13 This is the same, looks like to me the same date as this, 14 if I had to look. 15 As you ca-n see, they are warning about inhalation 16 of fumes and gases and the need to take precautions. 17 And I think these are just some notes. This is the 18 man that I preceded -- I mean, I took his job. 19 Q. Who is this individual? 20 A. This is gentleman named Robert Carter. I 21 replaced him in Alcoa. 22 Q. Did he retire? 23 A. Yes . 24 Q. Where is he currently located? 25 A. I do not know. C60777 0102 rCOKER L ANTZ 415/392-0650 98 1 This just shows some of the evolution of labels 2 over time. This is 1981. Appears to be May of 1985. 3 Q. What would the next group of documents be, 4 G-2? 5 A. This is just an indication we found as we 6 were rummaging through our files, we came across the 7 document that back in 1958 that Massena Operations where 8 we used to make wire, we were aware that some of the 9 alloys in aluminum could be of interest to detect 10 beryllium, lead, zinc. I have no knowledge of what, what 11 this document was. It was probably used in the plant to 12 protect employees. Some management document. 13 Q. Would you know who authored the document? 14 A. No. 15 Q. It-looks like it has been cut off at the top 16 on the second page. Do you know what was cut off there? 17 A. No. 18 MR. REED: Want us to try to get a better copy? 19 MR. WAGNER: Yes, would you? I can't read the top. 20 Looks like it was cut off there. 21 THE WITNESS: I think the message that is 22 communicated here is that in, that while the aluminum is 23 not a concern there are select alloys that, where you 24 might have other materials in there that you would be 25 interested in. -OCKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 C60777 0103 J 99 1 MR. WAGNER: Q. And that would be the four 2 indicated there at the top of page two? 3 A. Well, it's four that, you know, toxicologists 4 would have an interest in. 5 Q. What are those four? 6 A. Beryllium, lead, bismuth and-zinc. 7 This is not what would be in an electrode. This is 8 just a common alloy. This would not be used, you wouldn't 9 put those things in aluminum welding electrodes. It just 10 would never happen because of concerns around their 11 toxicity. 12 I mean, at least -- I shouldn't say all. There are 13 some that have zinc. You can control that. But beryllium 14 and lead, as I said earlier we controlled beryllium years 15 ago to almost, quote, zero, end of quote. 16 Q. Next group of documents? 17 A. This is just a pile chronologically, to my 18 understanding this is the MSDSs that may have been sent to 19 FMC for their products. 20 MR. REED: My understanding, Mr. Wagner is those 21 are the MSDSs covering all of the alloys for all of the 22 products covered m the sales printout that is exhibit G 23 to Ray Sauer's deposition. So these are all of the MSDSs 24 for those column number compounds and those products. C60777 0104 25 MR. WAGNER: Q. For sales to FMC in San Jose for i ANTZ 415/392-0650 100 1 '68 to '73 time period? 2 MR. REED: Yes. 3 MR. WAGNER: We'll just make all of these 4 collectively exhibit G-3 next in order. 5 MR. REED: That's it, all that in that folder. 6 THE WITNESS: What you have, probdbly data sheets 7 starting back, as far as -- 8 MR. REED: I'm sorry, I misspoke. It's not all 9 that is in the folder. Go ahead. 10 THE WITNESS: I was just going to say, before OSHA 11 HazCom we were preparing data sheets on certain products 12 that were of interest to us. 13 MR. WAGNER: Q. Are there any documents in exhibit 14 G-3 that would be different from those reflecting products 15 sold to FMC in San Jose? Is that what the whole group is 16 that you just identified? 17 MR. REED: I believe that to be correct. 18 Now, the material safety data sheet that you are 19 looking at is, and one reason I have just begun to 20 tentatively exclude it from exhibit G-3, is that the 21 material data sheets that he's holding and labeling as G-3 22 were made in response to an OSHA Hazard Communication 23 standard. The material safety data sheet that you are 24 currently looking at was not made in response to that 25 standard. Predates that. C6Q777 0105 T'~OK-R & ANTZ 415/392-0650 101 1 I'm not satisfied that those are the only material 2 safety data sheets that were so created. I discovered 3 that that was the only data sheet included in the package 4 of materials that I brought with me. I had intended to 5 bring more and I will go back and get more. You and I can 6 discuss what you want me to do with those additional 7 sheets if I find them. 8 MR. WAGNER: Q. And that's your understanding as 9 well? 10 A. Well, I don't have any knowledge of whether 11 or not these sheets would have been sent to FMC. And 12 someone else may have records to indicate that. 13 When Hazard Communication came into being we 14 computerized and know where we sent sheets. I'm not aware 15 what records were maintained at that time documenting when 16 sheets were sent to customers. 17 So these sheets, as my memory serves me, were 18 provided on request. They were not necessarily provided 19 from a, as were the ones under OSHA HazCom. 20 Now, having said that there may be received 21 evidence or records that may suggest that these sheets 22 were sent to FMC. 23 MR. WAGNER: We'll identify these additional sheets 24 as G-4 collectivelv. C60777 0106 25 Q. Listening to the conversation it seems that COOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 102 1 this was something that Ray Sauer and you worked on. 2 MR. REED: He and I have discussed it in the past. 3 THE WITNESS: Ray was involved in a lot of the 4 customers' interfaces on product safety. 5 MR. WAGNER: Q. And that was the other person you 6 were referring to as perhaps somebody knowledgeable as to 7 whether these were sent to FMC? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. That concludes exhibit G. 10 What is the exhibit folder H? What is contained in 11 there? 12 (Exhibit H was marked) 13 A. These are very early-on documents dated 1945 14 and 1948. What these are is Alcoa prepared welding and 15 brazing manuals* for our customers about aluminum welding 16 and brazing. 17 The important thing to note is the time frames, 18 1945, 1948, and these contain the section called Safety 19 Practices. And safety practice talk about precautions to 20 take in welding, i.e., ventilation in confined areas, et 21 cetera. 22 Q. And tr.ese would have been provided to 23 customers of Alcoa? 24 A- Yes C60777 0107 25 They are, our understanding in discussions with 7?::<ER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 103 1 Paul Dickerson who was involved in this process is that 2 these documents were in the sales offices and they were 3 widely distributed to our customers who were involved in 4 welding. Not only to talk about welding and how to do it 5 but also obviously to point out safety concerns. 6 Q. Did he have any, to your knowledge, express 7 recollection of this being provided to FMC in San Jose? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. He did? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And he conveyed that: to you during your 12 conversation with him? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Did he indicate who at that company had 15 possession of these documents? 16 A. No. The only comment, he said they were 17 widely distributed within that organization. 18 Q. Was he referring to the specific document 19 that we have had marked as exhibit H? 20 A. I can't say which document, whether it's '45, 21 '48. There is a whole chronology of them that occurred 22 over time. 23 To say his awareness was that these documents were 24 distributed, since they started in the '40s, he said they 25 were widely distributed, when they were published TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 104 C60777 0108 1 distributed to our customers. If FMC became a customer of 2 Alcoa in whatever rime frame they should have had copies 3 of those documents. 4 Q. Specifically with regard to what he told you, 5 he did not indicate what year he was aware of FMC first 6 receiving welding and brazing Alcoa Aluminum manuals? 7 A. I did not ask him that question. 8 Q. And he did not voluntarily provide that 9 information? 10 A. He said when these documents were published 11 they were widely distributed to our customers. So if, in 12 the time frame that FMC became an Alcoa customer, the 13 assumption or the impression I had was they would have had 14 it at that time to say when they actually had a copy, I'm 15 not able to answer that with total precision. 16 Q. Because he didn't indicate that information 17 to you. Is that true? 18 A. I asked him -- I did not ask the question 19 specifically as to: Do you know what year they first 20 received^ this document. 21 He said: They received this document long ago, 22 over time. And had many copies throughout their 23 facilities, throughout their facility in San Jose. 24 Q. But he didn't provide anything more 25 definitive to you as far as a specific year and time TOOKSR & ANTZ 415/392-0650 105 C60777 0109 1 period when they would have first received these? 2 A. I did not ask that question. 3 Q. All right, make the 1945 manual H-l, the 1948. 4 manual H-2. And that's the contents of exhibit H. 5 What is exhibit I? 6 (Exhibit I was marked) 7 A. Give me a moment to look at it before I 8 answer. 9 This is a series of documents. The first one is 10 dated 1954. These are publications by Alcoa Aluminum 11 which is a continuation of the previous exhibit about 12 welding Alcoa aluminum. First one is dated 5/9/54. 13 Second one -- 14 Q. Call the first one exhibit 1-1 and the next 15 one is I-2. 16 A. It is dated 1955. It's the second printing. 17 Then you have one dated 1958. 18 Q. Call that I -3. 19 A. Then you have one dated 1967. 20 Q. That will be 1-4. 21 And the final one 1-5, what is that? 22 A. Dated 1972. 23 Q. Again, why was it that these were produced? 24 A. These were produced to not only convey to our 25 customers technical issues around aluminum welding -- TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 106 C607770110 1 MR. REED: 2 here today. I think he means why were they brought 3 THE WITNESS: Oh, to show that Alcoa over long 4 periods of time was communicating to our employees 5 recommendations about safe practices in welding. Things 6 around proper ventilation when working in confined spaces 7 and other safeguards to take when welding. 8 MR. REED: May I just jump in with a question? 9 I believe, Mr. James, you stated that we intended 10 for the employees. The documents produced in folder I, 11 were they, do you know whether they were given to 12 customers ? 13 THE WITNESS: It is my understanding in discussions 14 with Paul Dickerson and others who were involved with this 15 process at the time, these documents were distributed to 16 our sales offices which in turn distributed them to our 17 customers. 18 He also had specific recollection that FMC in San 19 Jose had these documents. Whether they had every single 20 one I cannot testify to that. He said he had seen these 21 documents. 22 MR. WAGNER: Q. He had seen documents of the type 23 identified as exhibits 1-1 through 1-5 but not the 24 specific dates? 25 A. I did not ask him which specific version he TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 107 C60777Oiif 1 had, you know, he had seen. 2 Q- So, for example, he couldn't tell you or he 3 did not tell you that FMC in San Jose had exhibit I-l. 4 A. That is correct. 5 MR. WAGNER: Okay. I think that's all the 6 questions I have. Thank you very much, sir. 7 MR. REED: We'll read and sign. 8 (Time is 1:35) 9 -------oOo-------- 10 11 12 13 (Signature of Witness) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TOOKER Sc ANTZ 415/392-0650 108 C60777 0112 CERTIFICATE OF DEPOSITION OFFICER I, ANN T. ERWIN, duly authorized to administer oaths pursuant to Section 2093(b) of the California Code of Civil Procedure, iiereby certify that the witness in the foregoing deposition was by me duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the within-entitled cause; that said deposition was taken at the time and place therein stated; that the testimony of the said witness was reported by me and thereafter transcribed by me or under my direction into typewriting; that the foregoing is a full, comp'lete and true record of said testimony; and that the witness was given an opportunity to read and correct said deposition and to subscribe the same. I further certify that I am not of counsel nor attorney for either or any of the parties in the foregoing deposition and caption named, or in any way interested in the outcome of the cause named in said caption. DEPOSITION OFFICER I hereby certify this copy is a true and exact copy of the ori DEPOSITION OFFICER Date of Certification TOOKER & ANTZ 415/392-0650 109 C60777 0113