Document ppEQQpby4R3RjZQn578VV51vj

0001 1 2 3 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 4 FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 5 EASTERN DIVISION 6 7 CIVIL ACTION NO. CV-96-P-0440-E 8 WALTER OWENS, et al., 9 Plaintiffs, 10 vs. 11 MONSANTO COMPANY, 12 Defendant. 13 14 15 DEPOSITION OF DAVID L. CAIN 16 In accordance with Rule 5(d) of 17 The Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure, as 18 Amended, effective May 15, 1988,1, DONNA 19 ARMSTRONG, am hereby delivering to GROVER 20 G. HANKINS, the original transcript of the 21 oral testimony taken on the 29th 22 day of March, 2001, along with exhibits. 23 Please be advised that this is the 0002 1 same and not retained by the Court 2 Reporter, nor filed with the Court. 3 4 DEPOSITION TESTIMONY OF: 5 6 DAVID L. CAIN 7 8 MARCH 29, 2001 9 10 2:30 p.m. 11 12 13 COURT REPORTER: Donna Armstrong 14 15 16 STIPULATION 17 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED, by 18 and between the parties, through their 19 respective counsel, that the deposition of 20 DAVID L. CAIN may be taken before Donna 21 Armstrong, Commissioner, Certified 22 Professional Reporter and Notary Public, 23 State at Large; 0003 1 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 2 AGREED that the signature to and reading of 3 the deposition by the witness is not 4 waived, the deposition to have the same OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035431 5 force and effect as if full compliance had 6 been had with all laws and rules of Court 7 relating to the taking of depositions; 8 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 9 AGREED that it shall not be necessary for 10 any objections to be made by counsel to any 11 questions, except as to form or leading 12 questions, and that counsel for the parties 13 may make objections and assign grounds at 14 the time of trial, or at the time said 15 deposition is offered in evidence, or prior 16 thereto. 17 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 18 AGREED that the notice of filing of the 19 deposition by the Commissioner is waived. 20 21 22 23 0004 1 INDEX 2 3 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE: 4 Mr. Hankins 7 5 Mr. Newsom 100 6 Mr. Hankins 102 7 8 EXHIBITS 9 10 (There were no exhibits offered or attached 11 to this deposition.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0005 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 LARRY WRIGHT 5 Mithoff & Jacks, LLP 6 111 Congress Avenue 7 Suite 1010 8 Austin, Texas 78701 9 10 GROVER G. HANKINS OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035432 11 Professor of Law 12 Thurgood Mashall School of Law 13 Texas Southern University 14 3100 Cleburne Avenue 15 Houston, Texas 77004 16 17 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 18 EDDIE NEWSOM 19 Smith, Helms, Mulliss & Moore 20 1355 Peachtree Street, NE 21 Suite 750 22 Atlanta, GA 30309 23 0006 1 KEVIN E. CLARK 2 Lightfoot, Franklin & White, LLC 3 The Clark Building 4 400 20th Street North 5 Birmingham, AL 35203-3200 6 7 I, Donna Armstrong, a Certified 8 Professional Reporter of Birmingham, 9 Alabama, and a Notary Public for the State 10 of Alabama at Large, acting as 11 Commissioner, certify that on this date, 12 pursuant to Rule 30 of the Alabama Rules of 13 Civil Procedure and the foregoing 14 stipulation of counsel, there came before 15 me at The Clark Building, 400 20th Street 16 North, Birmingham, Alabama, on the 29th day 17 of March, 2001, commencing at 2:30 p.m., 18 DAVID L. CAIN, witness in the above cause, 19 for oral examination, whereupon the 20 following proceedings were had: 21 22 DAVID L. CAIN, 23 being first duly sworn, was examined and 0007 1 testified as follows: 2 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. HANKINS: 4 Q. Mr. Cain, would you state your 5 name for the record, please? 6 A. David L. Cain. 7 Q. And what is your age? 8 A. Forty. 9 Q. And where do you reside? 10 A. 1202 Eagle Crest Boulevard, 11 Jacksonville, Alabama, 36265. 12 Q. And are you married? 13 A. Yes, I am. 14 Q. Do you have any children? 15 A. Yes, I do. 16 Q. What is their ages? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035433 17 A. My son is sixteen. My daughter is 18 twelve. 19 Q. One of them is wise beyond her 20 years and the other one thinks he knows 21 everything. 22 MR. NEWSOM: And one of them is 23 real big. 0008 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) That's good. 2 What is your educational background? What 3 is the highest level that you have 4 achieved? 5 A. Masters degree in management. 6 Q. From where? 7 A. From Fontbonne, F-o-n-t-b-o-n-n-e, 8 College. 9 Q. Are you from St. Louis? 10 A. No, sir. 11 Q. Where are you from? 12 A. Michigan. 13 Q. Where in Michigan? 14 A. Born in Grand Rapids and spent 15 time in Detroit. 16 Q. Did you do your undergrad in 17 Michigan? 18 A. Yes, I did. 19 Q. Where? 20 A. Wayne State University. 21 Q. When did you get your 22 undergraduate degree? 23 A. When? 0009 1 Q. Yes. 2 A. 1985. 3 Q. And your graduate degree? 4 A. September of 2000. 5 Q. And that was at Fontbonne? 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. Now, after you attained your 8 graduate degree, what was your first job 9 A. I was already working as a 10 business team leader. 11 Q. Business team leader? 12 A. Yeah. In St. Louis prior to that. 13 Q. For what company? 14 A. Solutia. 15 Q. So you had been working for 16 Solutia for a number of years? 17 A. I have been with the company 18 sixteen years. 19 Q. Sixteen years? 20 A. Uh-huh. 21 Q. When did you start with them? 22 A. Right out of school in 1985. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035434 23 Q. Was that out of undergraduate 0010 1 school? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. So when you graduated from Wayne 4 State, you went to St. Louis, got you a 5 job? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. No? 8 A. No. 9 Q. That's not what you did? 10 A. When I graduated from school, we 11 had a plant in Trenton, Michigan. I went 12 to work for Solutia, Monsanto then, in 13 Trenton, Michigan. 14 Q. Trenton, where is that? 15 A. That's down river from Detroit. 16 Q. How long did you work there? 17 A. I went there in May of'85. I 18 left the company in December of '87. 19 Q. Where did you go? 20 A. I went to work for Kellogg in 21 Battlecreek. 22 Q. How long did you stay with 23 Kellogg? 0011 1 A. I stayed with Kellogg for couldn't 2 have been more than a year, less than a 3 year. 4 Q. And you went back to Monsanto? 5 A. No, sir. 6 Q. Where did you go? 7 A. I went to Michigan Consolidated 8 Gas Company. 9 Q. And what capacity did you work 10 with -- work in while you were working with 11 Monsanto '85 to '87? 12 A. I was an electrical engineer, 13 design engineer. 14 Q. Is your undergraduate degree in 15 electrical engineering? 16 A. Electrical and computer, yes. 17 Q. And as a design engineer, what 18 were your duties and responsibilities? 19 A. Well, it varied, but when I went 20 back to Solutia I was still an electrical 21 engineer and things were different, but 22 when I started out of school -- 23 Q. Yeah, when you started out. 0012 1 A. I was just designing mostly 2 computer based control systems. 3 Q. For what, for what purpose? 4 A. For the purpose of manufacturing OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035435 5 the product that we made there. 6 Q. In Trenton? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. What products did you make in 9 Trenton? 10 A. Oh, boy, we made a variety of 11 products. We made a product called DSP, 12 which is dual sodium phosphate. We made a 13 product called matga, which is used to 14 fight fires. There were a few others. 15 Q. When you went to Kellogg, you 16 worked in the same capacity as a design 17 engineer? 18 A. I was a senior design engineer at 19 Kellogg. 20 Q. Why did you leave Kellogg? 21 A. They wanted to send me to Japan. 22 Q. Why did you leave Monsanto to go 23 to Kellogg? 0013 1 A. I left Monsanto initially because 2 of the opportunity to work in a corporate 3 environment. 4 Q. What did you mean by that? 5 A. Meaning I was -- I was, you know, 6 two years out of school, and as an 7 engineer, everybody wants to work on big 8 projects. 9 Q. Right. 10 A. I mean, huge projects and I was 11 being developed working in small to medium 12 projects. Kellogg never offered me a 13 chance to work on big proj ects. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. I was on the proj ect team that 16 designed Nut and Honey cereal and Frosted 17 Mini Wheats. 18 Q. You're responsible for that? 19 A. I take full credit for it. 20 Q. That's one of the most popular 21 cereals, I understand. 22 MR. WRIGHT: I had Frosted Mini 23 Wheats this morning for the first time in 0014 1 years. Interesting. 2 MR. NEWSOM: He had six boxes of 3 them. 4 MR. WRIGHT: I did go back for 5 seconds actually. 6 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) When you left 7 Kelloggs and came back to Monsanto, what 8 was -- they wanted to send you to Japan and 9 you didn't want to go over there? 10 A. No. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035436 11 Q. Mainly because it was so 12 expensive? 13 A. Because of family commitment. I 14 would be traveling most of the time. 15 Q. Your family couldn't go with you? 16 A. No. 17 Q. So you left and went back to 18 Monsanto; is that correct? 19 A. No, sir. I left Kellogg and I 20 went to MichCon. 21 Q. In what capacity did you work for 22 MichCon? 23 A. As a senior engineer. 0015 1 Q. Were you doing what you wanted to 2 do there? 3 A. No, not quite. 4 Q. What were you doing? 5 A. At MichCon I was responsible for 6 designing again computer based control 7 systems. I wasn't happy there because 8 there is not much engineering from sending 9 gas from point A to point B. I wasn't 10 happy with that. 11 Q. You left MichCon and went where? 12 A. Went back to Monsanto. 13 Q. And in what capacity were you 14 employed at that time? 15 A. I went back as senior electrical 16 engineer/maintenance supervisor. 17 Q. Did you get a raise? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. What were your duties and 20 responsibilities? 21 A. Well, I was back to designing 22 control systems and that part was the same, 23 but what was new about it was I now had the 0016 1 responsibilities of people. I had a 2 maintenance group that worked for me. 3 Q. So you were a supervisor? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. What plant? 6 A. That's the Trenton plant. 7 Q. Trenton, Michigan? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. You went back to Trenton? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. How long did you stay at the 12 Trenton plant? 13 A. I left the plant in 1994. 14 Q. And where did you go? 15 A. To Greenwood, South Carolina. 16 Q. Greenville? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035437 17 A. Greenwood. 18 Q. Greenwood? 19 A. South Carolina, at the plant. 20 Q. Where is that? 21 A. It is about forty-five minutes 22 east of Greenville, southeast -- 23 northeast. No, southeast of Greenville. 0017 1 Q. Okay. I generally know where that 2 is. How far from Columbia? 3 A. An hour. 4 Q. An hour. What plant were you 5 employed at? 6 A. The Greenwood plant. 7 Q. For -- 8 A. Solutia. 9 Q. What company, Solutia? 10 A. Monsanto. It was Monsanto at the 11 time. 12 Q. Monsanto. 13 A. Before the split. 14 Q. It didn't become Solutia until 15 '97? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. In what capacity were you employed 18 at the Greenwood plant? 19 A. I went to the plant as a 20 maintenance/traffic team leader. After 21 that job -- do you want to know my next job 22 after that? 23 Q. Sure. How long did you work in 0018 1 that capacity and what were your duties and 2 responsibilities? 3 A. Gosh. I must have done that job 4 for a year. My responsibilities were to 5 again manage a larger maintenance group 6 this time. 7 Q. And maintenance meaning 8 maintenance on the machines, maintenance on 9 what? 10 A. Maintenance for the whole plant. 11 Q. The whole plant. 12 A. Anything that broke. 13 Q. Anything that broke. How about 14 cleaning it up? 15 A. No, not that kind of maintenance. 16 This is mechanical, electrical 17 maintenance. I also had the traffic 18 department. The traffic department 19 involved handling all the logistics of 20 shipping a product both coming and 21 receiving. 22 Q. So it was inventory type -- OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035438 23 A. Yes. 0019 1 Q. I used to be an industrial 2 engineer with a dairy company. What was 3 the next position? 4 A. The job after that? 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. My role kept expanding. From 7 there I went to BCF South plant, 8 manufacturing team leader. 9 Q. What did you do in that capacity? 10 A. In that capacity, I was 11 responsible now for the manufacturing of 12 carpet fiber. I had everything from raw 13 materials to finished goods but I still had 14 the traffic department and the maintenance 15 department. So now I had manufacturing, 16 traffic, and maintenance. 17 Q. How many employees did you have? 18 A. When it was all said and done 19 about three hundred. 20 Q. You had a plant by itself? 21 A. It was a plant. 22 Q. What year were you employed -- 23 years were you employed? 0020 1 A. Well, I was there from 1994 to 2 '98. 3 Q. Now, you mentioned raw materials. 4 What raw materials were you in charge of? 5 A. We used adipic acids and a product 6 called HMD. 7 Q. What is that? 8 A. Hepamethadiamine, kaladiamine for 9 short. That's what you call it. It's used 10 to make the fiber. If s used to make the 11 nylon. It's used to make the fiber. 12 Q. What other products did you make? 13 A. At that plant all we made -- well, 14 we had two products. We had a north plant, 15 which made residential carpet fibers. 16 Q. You had two plants? 17 A. We had two plants. I had one of 18 the plants. One of the plants made the 19 residential fibers such as what you have in 20 your home and my plant made commercial or 21 contract fibers, which is probably what we 22 have in that conference room. 23 Q. And in your capacity as 0021 1 manufacturer traffic team leader -- 2 A. Maintenance slash -- 3 Q. Maintenance slash traffic team 4 leader for -- I can't read my own writing. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035439 5 Did you have occasion to deal with any 6 environmental concerns? 7 A. If there were any, yes. 8 Q. Were there any? 9 A. No. 10 Q. You never had any environmental 11 problem at your plant? 12 A. Now, we had -- we had a problem 13 with -- first of all, we didn't have any 14 hazardous materials at our plant, but if 15 there was a raw material that I had 16 problems with, I would feel that the plant 17 -- I didn't have any when I was there 18 because we didn't have any hazardous 19 substances. 20 Q. Were there any emissions that came 21 from your plant that could be construed as 22 being hazardous? 23 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 0022 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You may answer. 2 A. Not to my knowledge. 3 Q. Did you have any investigations by 4 the EPA at your plant? 5 A. Not to my knowledge. 6 Q. So would there be anyone else who 7 would know, if you didn't? 8 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 9 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Could there be 10 to anybody else's knowledge? 11 THE WITNESS: No. 12 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 13 THE WITNES S: If it happened in my 14 plant, I would have known about it during 15 that time period. 16 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) So we can safely 17 say that there weren't any environmental 18 concerns by DEHC or the EPA at your plant 19 while it was under your watch that you are 20 aware of? 21 A. Not that I'm aware of. 22 Q. You were there from '94 to '98? 23 A. Yes, sir. 0023 1 Q. And did you leave Greenwood? 2 A. Got promoted, yes. 3 Q. Promoted to where? 4 A. To the Suja plant. 5 Q. That's Illinois. Saget we used to 6 call it. 7 A. That's what I called it at first. 8 Q. When you moved to Suja what 9 capacity did you move into? 10 A. My title was P2S5 business team OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035440 11 leader. 12 Q. What exactly is P2S5, what does 13 that mean? 14 A. It is phosphorous pentasulfide. 15 It is used to make oil. 16 Q. So you were one of the people-- 17 or the team leader who was over the 18 phosphorous pentasulfide manufacturing? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. So essentially you were like the 21 plant manager for that substance? 22 A. For that unit. That unit belonged 23 to me, yes. 0024 1 Q. How many employees did you have? 2 A. In that unit, we had, gosh, I'd 3 have to say forty people probably. 4 Q. Do you know whether phosphorous 5 pentasulfide was ever manufactured at the 6 Anniston plant? 7 A. I heard that it was. 8 Q. You said that it was used for what 9 now? 10 A. It's used to make an additive for 11 oil. 12 Q. What kind of additive? 13 A. Additive called SDP. 14 Q. SDP. What is that? 15 A. I have no clue. 16 Q. You just made the additive for it? 17 A. No, sir. I made phosphorous 18 pentasulfide. Another company made SDP 19 Q. What did phosphorous pentasulfide 20 have to do with SDP? 21 A. It was an ingredient to make it. 22 Q. Okay. I misunderstood you. 23 A. Okay. 0025 1 Q. And in the capacity as a team 2 leader for the phosphorous pentasulfide 3 group, did you have occasion to deal with 4 any environmental problems concerning the 5 plant? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And when was your first such 8 problem or concern? 9 A. I can't remember the exact date. 10 Q. Do you remember what it was? 11 A. Yeah, we had a -- we put P2S5 in 12 bed and we had a bucket full that spilled 13 on the ground. It was on concrete. And 14 for us, it means not a reportable quantity, 15 but for us it was the seriousness. 16 Q. When you said bucket, how big was OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035441 17 the bucket? 18 A. Five gallon bucket. 19 Q. It is not like a cauldron on an 20 overhead crane? 21 A. No. 22 Q. What was your second such concern, 23 the second concern that you had of an 0026 1 environmental nature? 2 A. I never said second. 3 Q. Well, you said you had -- 4 A. What did I say? 5 Q. You said you had a number of them 6 and I'm trying to recount how many you 7 might have had. 8 MR. NEWSOM: I'm not sure he said 9 -- I don't recall him saying that. 10 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) That was the 11 impression I got. 12 A. I don't recall saying I had a 13 number. 14 Q. Did you have any others? 15 A. I had that one, that the -- the 16 bucket that fell down. I had one with a 17 customer out in Colorado that had a tote 18 bin of mine that we had the slide gate 19 valves under the tote bins. The slide gate 20 valve was stuck and it required -- we did 21 not want any customers handling the tote 22 bins because they were our piece of 23 equipment. So we thought it was a big 0027 1 enough issue we sent somebody up to there 2 to address it. 3 Q. Anything else, any other problems 4 or concerns of an environmental nature? 5 A. No, not to my knowledge. 6 Q. What raw products came in to your 7 plant? 8 A. My unit, phosphorus. 9 Q. Okay. And where would the 10 phosphorous come from? 11 A. Probably our Soda Springs 12 operation. 13 Q. Soda? 14 A. Soda Springs. 15 Q. Where is that? 16 A. It's out in Idaho. 17 Q. And are you aware of the fact that 18 phosphorous has -- normally carrying 19 radioactive material with it? 20 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 21 THE WITNESS: No, sir, I don't 22 know. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035442 23 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You don't think 0028 1 it does or you don't know? 2 A. No. I said I don't know. 3 Q. Is there anyone who worked at your 4 facility who would know? Did you have an 5 environmental engineer? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did he ever discuss with you about 8 normally occurring radioactive material? 9 A. I don't think so. I don't recall. 10 Q. So there weren't any safety 11 procedures in place at your facility to 12 deal with a possibility of radioactive 13 materials being handled by your work? 14 A. To be more specific - 15 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 16 Mischaracterizes testimony. 17 MR. HANKINS: I didn't 18 mischaracterize anything. 19 MR. NEWSOM: You just did. 20 MR. HANKINS: Phosphorous, when it 21 is mined has normally occurring radioactive 22 material. When it is shipped into your 23 plant, that substance or that whatever you 0029 1 want to call it, is still with the 2 phosphorous because when it comes out of 3 the ground it has it. 4 MR. NEWSOM: Object. 5 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) My question is 6 were there any safety procedures put in 7 place to deal with a normally occurring 8 radioactive material at your plant? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: When the phosphorous 11 comes into the plant, it comes in -- first 12 of all, I believe the only solution to a 13 great extreme is to make sure that it was 14 loaded safely and used safely, never 15 exposed to any operator -- never exposed to 16 anyone. Loaded in a closed system. We do 17 have a lot of safe precautions that are in 18 place to notify, to protect people, if 19 there was such a radioactive nature. 20 Q. That's what I asked. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And in that regard, did you have 23 radiation signs around the plant to 0030 1 indicate spots where radiation hot spots 2 might occur? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Now, did you have workers who wore OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035443 5 safety suits in dealing with it? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And were there occasions when 8 these workers became exposed to the 9 radioactive material? 10 A. Not to my knowledge. 11 Q. And I believe you said earlier, 12 correct me if I'm wrong, that phosphorus 13 pentasulfide also is also made at the 14 Anniston plant? 15 A. My understanding it was a long 16 time ago. 17 Q. And in that situation, would there 18 have been the same safety precautions? 19 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 20 If you know. 21 THE WITNESS: I don't know because 22 it was so long ago. 23 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Who told you 0031 1 that it was manufactured there a long time 2 ago? 3 A. Retiree. 4 Q. Who was that? 5 A. I can't remember his name. I talk 6 to dozens of retirees every month. 7 Q. Where do you talk to them? 8 A. They'll come visit the plant. 9 They'll stop by and talk to me. I see them 10 in the community. I talk to people all the 11 time that come up to me and say, hey, I 12 used to work at the plant, and I can't 13 remember everybody's name. 14 Q. Did anybody ever tell you that 15 saran was manufactured at the plant? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. Were you aware that it was? 18 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 19 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Now, getting 20 back to the St. Louis, Suja plant. How 21 long did you work in the capacity that you 22 were employed in? 23 A. Year and a half,maybe. 0032 1 Q. A year and a half. And then were 2 you still employed? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. By Monsanto? 5 A. By Solutia. 6 Q. I like Monsanto better but we can 7 call it whatever you want to. Were you 8 still employed by Solutia? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. And were you employed in that OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035444 11 plant at Solutia? 12 A. After a year and a half? 13 Q. Right. 14 A. No. 15 Q. You went where? 16 A. To Anniston. 17 Q. Anniston? 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. Now, when you were in Suja, did 20 you have occasion to have a group of 21 regulatory commission come and inspect your 22 place? 23 A. Not to my knowledge. 0033 1 Q. What about the EPA or the Illinois 2 version of the EPA? 3 A. Not to my knowledge. 4 Q. Did you ever have any 5 environmental problems or concerns while 6 you were at that plant? 7 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 8 THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge 9 in my unit, no. 10 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Is there anybody 11 else's knowledge that could assist you in 12 this regard? 13 A. I'm sure the people that are at 14 the plant. They were there longer than I 15 was and would have knowledge of it. But I 16 was only there for a year and a half. I'm 17 sure there was somebody there. 18 Q. What year and month did you go to 19 the Anniston facility? 20 A. September 1 of 2000. 21 Q. Did they give you a raise? 22 A. Not really. 23 Q. They just asked you to go? 0034 1 A. No. It was a promotion. 2 Q. What kind of promotion? If you 3 didn't get a raise, how could that be a 4 promotion? 5 A. It wasn't that much. There was a 6 raise included. 7 Q. There was? You said there 8 wasn't. Did you change your mind? It 9 wasn't that much is what you're saying. 10 They were squeaking with the pennies; is 11 that right? 12 A. I'm not going to say that. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. That will come back to haunt you. 15 MR. NEWSOM: That's right. 16 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) We'll just say OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035445 17 it was a raise. 18 A. It was a raise. 19 Q. And your family was relocated? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And when you came to Monsanto 22 first of all, Monsanto has a number of 23 subsidiaries including Solutia; is that 0035 1 correct? 2 A. Solutia is not -- 3 MR. NEWSOM: Solutia is not a 4 subsidiary. 5 MR. WRIGHT: Object to the form. 6 It's not a subsidiary. 7 MR. HANKINS: Well, what is it? 8 Is it owned by Monsanto? 9 MR. WRIGHT: They spun it off. 10 THE WITNESS: Did say a spin off? 11 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Are there any 12 other spin offs to Monsanto? 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 Q. That's the only one? 15 A. That's the only one I know of. 16 Q. When you first became plant 17 manager, you did first receive a briefing 18 on the history of the Anniston facility? 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. From whom? 21 A. My immediate supervisors. 22 Q. Those were? 23 A. Larry Spickard. 0036 1 Q. Larry who? 2 A. Spickard, S-p-i-c-k-a-r-d. 3 Q. Anyone else? 4 A. (Witness shakes his head no). 5 Q. What did Mr. Spickard tell you? 6 A. He gave me the history of the 7 plant. I asked him. 8 Q. What is Spickard's position with 9 the facility plant or the company? 10 A. He is the director of 11 manufacturing. 12 Q. So he's -- 13 MR. NEWSOM: Just so y'all are 14 clear. He's not at the plant. He 15 actually-- 16 THE WITNESS: He's in St. Louis. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) I didn't think 18 the director of manufacturing is going to 19 be in Anniston? 20 A. I'm sorry. 21 Q. I didn't think that at all. Did 22 Mr. Spickard start in the 1930s? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035446 23 MR. NEWSOM: You mean start with 0037 1 the history? 2 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) With the 3 history. 4 A. I believe it may have been started 5 before then. 6 Q. What did he tell you as best as 7 you can recall? 8 A. As best I can remember, all I 9 remember -- I can't remember the guy's name 10 that started the company. 11 Q. Uh-huh. 12 A. And what was going on and how 13 Monsanto purchased the company in the 14 1930s. I didn't -- most of what was said 15 about the history, I didn't particularly 16 try to absorb much. I was more concerned 17 about current operations. Tell me what is 18 going on in the plant today, what am I 19 going to be managing, what am I going to be 20 operating, what am I going to be 21 responsible for, that was what I wanted to 22 get out of the conversation. 23 Q. But did he have concern about 0038 1 history in this situation because there was 2 a problem with PCBs? 3 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 4 THE WITNESS: I wanted to know 5 about the plant in general. I knew that 6 there was some things going on about PCBs, 7 but I wanted to know more about the current 8 operation. I knew that we had people that 9 were addressing -- 10 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Did you know -- 11 MR. NEWSOM: Whoa. I don't think 12 think he was finished with his answer. I'm 13 sorry. 14 THE WITNESS: I knew specifically 15 that we had some folks that were addressing 16 those issues and I specifically wanted to 17 know again, what am I going to be 18 responsible for operating today. That's 19 what I want to know. That is going to be 20 my job is managing today's plant. 21 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) I understand 22 that. But also in your ability to manage 23 the plant, wouldn't you have to be aware of 0039 1 the situation that you were coming in to? 2 A. To what extent, sir? 3 Q. To the extent that the EPA had a 4 massive investigation going on, to the OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035447 5 extent that ADEM had found some violations 6 in the past, to the extent that there were 7 a number of lawsuits that had already been 8 filed. 9 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form of 10 the question if it is a question, which I 11 don't think it is. 12 MR. HANKINS: He was asking me a 13 question, I was answering him. 14 THE WITNESS: Now, restate your 15 question. Can you repeat? 16 17 (The court reporter reads back the 18 question.) 19 20 THE WITNESS: The bulk of my 21 concern was what is going on in the plant 22 today. I knew that we had a group of 23 people that was addressing that issue and 0040 1 my concern was what is going on in the 2 plant today that I'm going to be 3 responsible for. That was -- 4 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Weren't you 5 responsible for those situations as well? 6 A. Would you rephrase that? The 7 situation -- the remediation? 8 Q. The remediation and the ongoing 9 investigation, weren't you responsible for 10 those as well? 11 A. I support the -- those ongoing 12 issues. We have a group of people who are 13 scientists or experts in remediation and 14 they do work with me, but I'm not one 15 hundred percent responsible for 16 remediation, no, sir. 17 Q. What percent responsible are you 18 for it? You oversee it, don't you? 19 A. I oversee the operation of that 20 site. 21 Q. And you want to make sure that 22 that remediation goes on properly, don't 23 you? 0041 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. You want to make sure that the EPA 3 investigation goes the way the company 4 would like for it to go, don't you? 5 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 6 THE WITNESS: Could you rephrase 7 that, please? 8 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) I could, but if 9 you understand it the way I asked it, I 10 would appreciate it if you would answer OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035448 11 it. 12 A. Could you rephrase it for me, 13 please? 14 Q. What is it that you don't 15 understand? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Well, if he doesn't 17 understand it, he can't tell you what he 18 doesn't understand. 19 MR. HANKINS: Yes, he can. 20 MR. NEWSOM: If you don't 21 understand -- 22 MR. HANKINS: Do the best you can. 23 MR. NEWSOM: If you understand the 0042 1 question, answer it. If you don't 2 understand it, don't answer it. It is his 3 obligation to ask you a question you 4 understand and then your obligation to 5 answer it truthfully. 6 MR. HANKINS: Objection to the 7 coaching of the witness. You may answer it 8 if you can. 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. Repeat it 10 again. 11 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) My question is 12 that you were responsible for everything 13 that went on at that facility, were you 14 not? 15 A. That went on? 16 Q. Within the -- 17 A. Or that goes on? 18 Q. That goes on, went on, however you 19 want to phrase it, you're responsible for 20 it as the plant manager, the CEO of the 21 plant? I'm not trying -- this is no trick 22 question. I'm not trying to trick you. 23 A. I am responsible for everything 0043 1 that happens on that site, on the operating 2 side. 3 Q. That's all I'm getting at. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. And so in overseeing all of 6 these responsibilities, one of them was 7 dealing with the EPA, APSDR, ADEM and the 8 other government agencies; is that correct? 9 A. Yes, that's correct. 10 Q. And who did you put in charge of 11 that? I know you oversaw it, but who was 12 in charge of those investigations at your 13 facility? 14 A. You have to remember when I got 15 there someone already was, but I didn't put 16 anybody in charge of that. There was OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035449 17 somebody already there. 18 Q. When they brought you to Anniston, 19 did they tell you that the plant was in the 20 middle of an African American community? 21 A. I had been to Anniston before so I 22 understood that. 23 Q. Did they ever lead you to believe 0044 1 that they brought you to Anniston so that 2 you could help work with the people in the 3 community? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. Did you ever get that feeling? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. Were there any production problems 8 that happened in the past that were brought 9 to your attention? 10 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 11 THE WITNESS: Could you be more 12 specific? That's awful vague. 13 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Did the facility 14 have any production problems in the past 15 that you were made aware of? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Same objection. 17 THE WITNESS: Could you be more 18 specific? 19 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) That's about as 20 specific as I can get. I mean -- 21 A. That's a wide open -- continue. 22 Q. That's what it's supposed to be. 23 I'm asking you about production problems. 0045 1 When you came on, they gave you a briefing 2 about history; right? 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. They gave you a briefing about 5 production? 6 A. Your question is, you know, did I 7 ever get briefed about a specific 8 production problem in the past when I was 9 briefed? 10 Q. That's it. 11 A. No. 12 Q. You didn't? 13 A. Not about a specific production 14 problem. 15 Q. About any problem? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) About any 18 problems at the facility? Were you briefed 19 about any problems at the facility? 20 A. Problems defined as -- you're 21 talking about equipment breakdowns or 22 what? Be more specific. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035450 23 Q. Equipment breakdowns, batch 0046 1 mixups, product problems, production 2 problems? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Breakdowns of any kind? 5 A. I was not briefed about any 6 specific breakdowns or production problems, 7 no. 8 Q. Who were your front line 9 supervisors when you became the plant 10 manager? 11 A. A young lady by the name of Greta 12 Senn, S-e-n-n, and a young man by the name 13 of Brad Cates. 14 Q. How many years experience did they 15 have between them? 16 A. Between them? 17 Q. Yes. 18 A. I'm speculating. I can't say. 19 Ten or fifteen years. 20 Q. Did they or anyone else brief you 21 about environmental problems at the 22 facility? 23 A. During what time period? 0047 1 Q. Any time period. 2 A. Not that I can remember. 3 Q. So nobody briefed you about 4 anything, you just came on, they gave you a 5 historical briefing. They told you about 6 production problems, but nobody told you 7 anything about the environmental problems 8 that the facility was faced with; is that 9 correct? 10 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 11 Ambiguous and compound. 12 MR. HANKINS: That summarizes his 13 testimony. 14 THE WITNESS: That's not what I 15 said. I said when I met with Larry 16 Spickard, he gave me the history of the 17 plant. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Did he give you 19 a history of the environmental problems as 20 well? 21 A. He did not allude to them as 22 environmental problems. 23 Q. What did he allude to them as? 0048 1 A. He alluded about there was PCBs 2 and batches and he told me about 3 remediation that is going on in the 4 facility now to remediate the PCBs. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035451 5 Q. Did he talk to you about the 6 possibility of there being health problems 7 as a result of the PCBs getting off site? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did he tell you how PCBs got off 10 site? 11 A. Not that I can remember. 12 Q. Did anyone tell you how the PCBs 13 got off site? 14 A. No. 15 MR. NEWSOM:That would -- 16 MR. HANKINS: Objection to your 17 coaching the witness. If you want to talk, 18 you have a right to talk to your witness 19 outside the room or you can talk to your 20 witness some other time, but not on the 21 record. We don't need for you to testify. 22 MR. WRIGHT: I told you, Eddie. 23 MR. NEWSOM: Are you -- that would 0049 1 exclude any kind of -- 2 MR. HANKINS: Objection to -- 3 MR. NEWSOM: I think that is a 4 fair objection. 5 MR. HANKINS: That isn't fair. If 6 you would have said privilege, I would have 7 shut up. 8 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You don't tell 9 me anything that you talked with your 10 lawyers about, but as far as a plant 11 manager or any other workers, you can 12 testify. 13 A. I remember I was briefed about -- 14 not how they left the site because I don't 15 -- I don't fully know that. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. But I do remember being briefed 18 about that may have travelers, the flood 19 plain to that extent. That's -- 20 Q. Did anyone tell you that a few 21 years -- well, back in about 1975, that I 22 think it was Hurricane Hugo came through 23 and there was massive flooding in the area? 0050 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Nobody ever spoke to you about 3 that flood? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Possibility? 6 A. No, sir. I didn't know Hugo came 7 through. 8 MR. NEWSOM: I remember Hugo. 9 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) It was one of 10 those hurricanes that came through in 1994 OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035452 11 or '95 and large amounts of PCBs were 12 discovered. 13 A. You said 74. 14 Q. Did I say 74? I apologize. I 15 meant 1994. 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. Nobody told you about any 18 hurricane in '93, '94, '95 or '96? 19 A. No, sir. I was in Greenwood, 20 South Carolina. 21 Q. Well, no, I'm talking about during 22 the exchange about the history of the 23 plant. 0051 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. But you are aware of Monsanto's 3 history of manufacturing PCBs? 4 A. Not a lot, but I know that 5 Monsanto did manufacture PCBs. 6 Q. How did you become aware of that? 7 A. I guess it was during the briefing 8 I had with my boss. 9 Q. And when did Monsanto cease 10 production of PCBs? 11 MR. NEWSOM: In Anniston? Because 12 13 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) In Anniston? 14 A. I -- my understanding is that it 15 was in the early 70s, '69, 70 time frame. 16 Q. Okay. When did the Anniston 17 facility cease manufacturing parathion? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. Has it? 20 A. Excuse me? 21 Q. Parathion, does it still 22 manufacture parathion? 23 A. No, sir. 0052 1 Q. What are the products manufactured 2 by your plant now? 3 A. We make a product called 4 therminol, which is a heat transfer fluid, 5 and we make a product called P&P. 6 Q. P&P? 7 A. P&P, which is an acronym for 8 paranitrolphenal used to make -- 9 Q. Paranitrol -- they got some 10 problems with that now? 11 A. Paranitrol? 12 Q. With P&P? 13 A. It's not with P&P. 14 Q. What about the P2S5, is it still 15 manufactured now? 16 A. No, sir. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035453 17 Q. When did it cease be manufactured? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. What about Santotar nerve gas? 20 A. It's not being manufactured. 21 Q. In your conversations with former 22 employees, did they talk about Santotor 23 being manufactured at the facility? 0053 1 A. Not that I can -- 2 Q. Back in the 50s? 3 A. Not that I can recall. 4 Q. If they did talk about it -- talk 5 to you about it, you would recall it, would 6 you not? 7 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 8 That calls for speculation. 9 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 10 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You don't know 11 if you would recall it? 12 A. I don't know if it would stick 13 out, no, sir. 14 Q. Now, you told the me that -- or 15 you testified that Monsanto now 16 manufactures therminol. Is there any 17 substantial difference between therminol 18 and PCBs? 19 A. Yes, I'm sure there is. 20 Q. What is it? 21 A. I'm not qualified to tell you. 22 Q. You're an engineer? 23 A. I'm an electrical engineer. 0054 1 Q. But you learned chemistry? 2 A. Well, I can tell you -- I can tell 3 you there is a substantial difference 4 between the two. 5 Q. You can tell me there is a 6 substantial difference, but you can't tell 7 me what that difference is? 8 A. Well 9 Q. They're both -- 10 MR. NEWSOM: Let him finish. 11 Whoa. I think he gets to finish his answer 12 and then we won't let him interrupt 13 either. That is fair. 14 THE WITNESS: Well, I can tell you 15 that I know the molecular structure is 16 different. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) In what way? 18 A. I'm trying to recall. I can't 19 recall the exact chemistry of-20 Q. Can you draw up a molecular 21 structure? 22 A. I'm not even going to try. My OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035454 23 chemistry 101 is not that strong. 0055 1 Q. I thought I would have some fun. 2 I used to have chemistry, too. How is the 3 molecular structure different? 4 A. I can't recall the exact specifics 5 of what is different, what is unique about 6 the two structures. 7 Q. Is there a phenal molecule? 8 A. In which one? 9 Q. In therminol. 10 A. I'm not going to even guess. 11 Q. It's a heat transfer agent; right? 12 A. Heat transfer agent. 13 Q. PCBs were, too? 14 A. PCBs were dialectic. 15 Q. But they were heat transfers too, 16 as well? 17 A. As an electrical engineer, I know 18 PCBs -- 19 Q. I asked you another question. Can 20 you answer that one? 21 A. I don't know all the purposes of 22 PCBs . I can't recall. I don't know. 23 Q. You don't know whether or not they 0056 1 were heat transfer either? 2 A. No, I don't know. I really don't. 3 Q. Can you describe the process for 4 mass manufacturing therminol, starting with 5 the raw product, going to the finished 6 product? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. And you're the plant manager? 9 A. I have been there six months. 10 Q. You can readabout it. 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you have a rough idea of how it 13 goes? What are the raw products that come 14 into your plant? 15 A. We use benzine. We take benzine 16 and we send it to a paralysis furnace. 17 Q. A what? 18 A. Paralysis furnace, which is 19 nothing but a furnace. We inject qumene 20 into that furnace. It goes to a 21 distillation column. A distillation column 22 gives off products and the bottom plates 23 and top plates goes to the compressor. 0057 1 Q. What waste products come from the 2 distillation process? 3 A. My understanding is Santotar. 4 Q. Santotar? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035455 5 A. Uh-huh. 6 Q. What is that? 7 A. You know, I can't describe to you 8 what it is. I know it is a by-product of 9 that distillation column. 10 Q. What is it? If s a waste product, 11 right? 12 A. If s a waste product that's used 13 as an oil feed for the furnace. 14 Q. An oil feed for the furnace. Do 15 you know what its chemical makeup is? 16 A. No, I don't know. 17 Q. What is the other products of the 18 distillation column? 19 A. That I don't know, sir. 20 Q. Could you find that out? 21 A. Sure. 22 Q. Could you provide those to your 23 attorney so that we may have them? 0058 1 A. Sure. 2 Q. Also, could you find out what the 3 chemical makeup of Santotar is? 4 A. Sure. 5 Q. Can you describe the process for 6 the manufacture of PCBs? 7 A. No. I don't have knowledge of cO 11. 9 Q. Solutia you said manufactures 10 paranitrolphenal; is that correct? 11 A. Uh-huh. 12 Q. And that is a feed stock? Are you 13 aware of some physiological problems with 14 that? 15 A. No, sir. 16 Q. What is VPI or VP1? 17 A. It is a grade of therminol. 18 Q. What is DPO? 19 A. DPO is a product that is used in 20 the manufacturing of the therminol process. 21 Q. Of therminol. What is it? 22 A. I tried to remember. I can't 23 remember what its purpose is but -- 0059 1 Q. Could you also find out about VPI 2 and DPO and what their chemical makeups are 3 and what they're used for, please? 4 MR. NEWSOM: Well, and I will say, 5 Grover, because I mean, I don't know if 6 these are matters that have been covered 7 otherwise, but if they are -- if they have 8 been covered otherwise, we're not going to 9 burden him with them. You can certainly 10 ask him what he knows about it, but if it OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035456 11 is something that hasn't been covered -- 12 MR. HANKINS: I think there's 13 several -- 14 MR. NEWSOM: You may be right. 15 MR. HANKINS: There were 16 responses, but nobody asked any questions 17 about them. 18 MR. NEWSOM: And you may be 19 right. I'm not suggesting you're not, but 20 a lot of people -- I know you have been to 21 some. None of us have been to all of them, 22 but we'll endeavor to find that out if it 23 has not been inquired about. 0060 1 THE WITNESS: For clarification, 2 do you want chemical makeup of VP1 and 3 DPO? 4 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) And what their 5 purposes are, what they're used for. 6 A. VP 1 is a heat transfer. 7 MR. NEWSOM: And let me just say 89 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) It is a grade of 10 therminol? 11 A. Yes. 12 MR. NEWSOM: I don't know what of 13 this information may be deemed 14 proprietary. I don't know. I certainly am 15 not agreeing -- 16 MR. HANKINS: I'm not asking for 17 the patented formula now. I just want to 18 know the chemical makeup. 19 MR. NEWSOM: I'm just saying we're 20 not providing anything that's proprietary 21 regardless and I'm not suggesting it is or 22 not, but I don't agree to do it blindly 23 without knowing that and find out later on 0061 1 that it is. 2 MR. HANKINS: I agree it is. 3 THE WITNESS: Now, let me clarify 4 again. You understand that VP1 is a 5 different grade of DPO. 6 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Is it a lower or 7 higher grade? 8 A. It's a lower grade. 9 Q. Is it closer to biphenyl? 10 A. I don't know, sir. 11 Q. Does the Anniston facility 12 manufacture either of those two? 13 A. We make the VP1. 14 Q. Do you manufacture biphenyl? 15 A. Biphenyl, yes. 16 Q. And do biphenyls have any chlorine OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035457 17 in them? 18 A. Not to my knowledge. 19 Q. Does therminol? 20 A. Therminol is the end result. 21 Biphenyl is used to make therminol. 22 Q. My question that I have is does 23 chlorine come into your plant by rail, 0062 1 trucks or otherwise, period, as a feed 2 stock? 3 A. Not to my knowledge. 4 Q. And do you know when, if ever, 5 chlorine, as a feed stock, was discontinued 6 at the plant? 7 A. Not to my knowledge. I wanted to 8 clarify that I think we are using chlorine 9 because I think I was briefed that we had 10 some chlorine in it. I think we do use 11 some of it. 12 Q. Do you know what it is used in and 13 for? 14 A. P&P. 15 Q. P&P. Do you have any grandfather 16 equipment at your facility? 17 A. Could you define grandfather 18 equipment, please? I'm serious. 19 Q. Grandfather means that you are 20 allowed to use it even though it is against 21 the law now because it was started so long 22 ago and the legislature has allowed you to 23 go on using the equipment, a method, or 0063 1 whatever. 2 A. Not to my knowledge. 3 Q. Just like in Texas, they have 4 grandfather facilities, referring -- which 5 means they can use equipment that was 6 manufactured back in 1938. Some of it has 7 German sausages on it that they brought 8 from Germany and they are still using it 9 because the state has allowed them to be 10 grandfathered and they pollute at a higher 11 rate. 12 A. (Witness shakes head.) 13 Q. Well, does -- is there an 14 injection well on site at your facility? 15 A. We have an interceptor well. 16 Q. What's that? 17 A. I guess that's like -- it is just 18 a collection point for water. 19 Q. And what happens to the water? 20 A. It goes to the water treatment 21 plant from there. 22 Q. I'm talking about something that OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035458 23 goes down in the ground. 0064 1 A. Not to my knowledge. 2 Q. The long distance. In other 3 words, it is injected into the ground to 4 get rid of the waste? 5 A. Not to my knowledge. 6 Q. Do you have emissions coming from 7 your plant? 8 A. Yes, we do. 9 Q. What are those emissions? 10 A. We have a permit for -- I know we 11 have a permit for benzine emissions, 12 qumene. There are others I don't know. 13 Q. Is there anyone else who would 14 know? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Who is that? 17 A. My environmental manager. 18 Q. Who is that? 19 A. Robert Jones. 20 Q. Are any of those emissions 21 recaptured? 22 A. Not to my knowledge. 23 Q. Do you have waste product as a 0065 1 result of the manufacturing process other 2 than the ones that you have already 3 mentioned? 4 A. No. 5 Q. I would like to direct your 6 attention to the landfills and repositories 7 developed by Monsanto. Will you name those 8 locations for me? Is there a map? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Larry had one 10 somewhere or other. He had one earlier 11 because -- well, he couldn't have gone 12 far. 13 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Can you name 14 them for me? Are you familiar with this 15 (indicating)? 16 A. Let me get my orientation. 17 Q. This is a mountain. That's the 18 plant? 19 A. Yeah, that's supposed to be the 20 plant. I know there is the landfill here 21 (indicating.) There is a south landfill 22 (indicating) over here somewhere. 23 MR. CLARK: Isn't that the South 0066 1 landfill there (indicating)? 2 MR. NEWSOM: North is actually 3 this way (indicating). 4 THE WITNESS: There you go. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035459 5 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) And when you 6 became plant manager, were you taken on a 7 tour? 8 A. Of the landfills? 9 Q. Of this total area? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And at that time was a catchment 12 under construction or was it finished for 13 catching the landfill? 14 A. Seven months ago? 15 Q. I don't know. 16 A. That's when I came here. I'm 17 assuming it was done. There was no work. 18 Q. Well, what was -- when you came 19 seven months ago, what was in place? 20 A. Seven months ago, the landfills 21 were in place and everything that is there 22 now was there when I came seven months ago. 23 Q. Okay. What about the catchment 0067 1 area? 2 A. That was there too. 3 Q. Okay. So you came -- you hadn't 4 been here long? 5 A. That's what I have been -- 6 Q. Okay. You mentioned before that 7 you were given a briefing. Did anyone 8 brief you on these two landfills? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Other than the tour? 10 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Other than the 11 tour? 12 A. To what extent? I mean, I was 13 briefed. I was taken up and said these are 14 the landfills. This is the retention pond. 15 Q. That's all they said? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. They didn't tell you what purpose 18 any of this was for like this? 19 A. Well, yes, I was explained that 20 this is the -- this is the a retention pond 21 to catch the water runoff on the mountain. 22 Q. Okay. Why? Did they tell you 23 why? 0068 1 A. Well, the purpose of a retention 2 pond is to act as a surge capacity for 3 water. 4 Q. I want to put that on the record, 5 okay? Now, do you have a road map for a 6 worse case scenario at your plant? You 7 know, all facilities are supposed to have 8 those. 9 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 10 If you understand it, have at it. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035460 11 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You know what a 12 worse case scenario is, don't you? 13 A. Uh-huh. 14 Q. Do you have some kind of plan for 15 that at 16 17 1 18 when 1 19 every ! 20 year -- 21 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Uh-huh? 22 A. This site is in compliance. 23 Q. And you have that? 0069 1 A. 'Yes, sir. 2 Q. What is the area, under worse case 3 scenario conditions, that would be affected 4 by a worse case situation going on at the 5 Solutia plant? 6 MR. NEWSOM: Well, just object to 7 the form. Y'all are using different 8 terminology, but if you understand what 9 he's saying. 10 THE WITNESS: I don't know off the 11 top of my head. I don't know. 12 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you have a 13 copy of that plan somewhere? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Can we have a copy of it, please? 16 A. If I can- 17 Q. You understand what worse case 18 scenario means? 19 A. Uh-huh. 20 Q. What does it mean to you? 21 A. It means to me last year when the 22 government or the EPA or whoever, which 23 regulatory agency, mandated that each site 0070 1 would identify what their hazardous 2 chemical was and whatever their chemical 3 was, in a worse case scenario which sector 4 of the population would be affected. I do 5 understand that. Okay. 6 Q. Now, that was for the facility or 7 was it what the government required? 8 A. For the facility. 9 Q. Was it for any kind of hazard 10 though that might affect the population? 11 A. Be more specific. 12 Q. Was the worse case scenario a 13 requirement, did it compel manufacturers to 14 do a worse case scenario for everything it 15 had as possibilities? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035461 17 MR. HANKINS: I'm sorry. 18 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 19 Go ahead. I'm sorry. 20 THE WITNESS: I can't remember 21 what our area -- it wasn't for every kind 22 of hazard. There were chemical substances, 23 hazardous substances, that were identified 0071 1 by the government. If you had these 2 substances, then you developed an R&P for 3 it. Is that what -- 4 Q. Yes. Now, did that include PCBs? 5 A. I was not at the site when they 6 developed their R&P. 7 Q. I understand that. But would it 8 include PCBs? 9 A. You would have to assume that PCBs 10 were still being manufactured. 11 Q. Now, I assume that they're still 12 being retained in landfills. So therefore, 13 my question is would there be an R&P for 14 landfilled PCBs? 15 A. I would only be speculating. You 16 would have to look at the list. I don't 17 know if they're on the list. 18 Q. You don't know if they're on the 19 list? 20 A. I don't know if they're on that 21 government list of developing R&Ps for. 22 Q. If they are on the list, would 23 there need to be an R&P for that? 0072 1 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 2 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) I mean, it's 3 easy if they're on the list. 4 A. I mean, if the government put them 5 on the list and said that you have to have 6 an R&P for this then, yes. If the 7 government put them on the list. 8 Q. That would require the need to 9 have an R&P for this retention pond and 10 these landfills as well, wouldn't it? 11 A. That's not true. 12 Q. Why isn't it? What's wrong with 13 it? 14 A. Again, I don't -- my assumption is 15 -- or my understanding is that the R&P 16 were for products that were being 17 manufactured. 18 Q. My question is these are already 19 manufactured. Are you telling me that the 20 community should not be protected from a 21 worse case scenario from some things that 22 are landfilled, that these landfills burst OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035462 23 and that retention pond burst? 0073 1 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 2 That's a different question. He's not 3 talking about -- he's talking about 4 something different now. 5 MR. HANKINS: No, I'm not. He 6 knows what I'm talking about. 7 THE WITNESS: I really don't. 8 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) PCBs are on the 9 R&P list. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. Then wouldn't it be incumbent on 12 your facility, your company, to have a 13 worse case scenario for landfilled PCBs if 14 they escape from the landfill and from the 15 retention pond? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Objection. Asked and 17 answered. 18 THE WITNESS: I don't know, 19 honestly. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Logically, would 21 that follow? 22 MR. NEWSOM: Objection. Asked and 23 answered. 0074 1 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 2 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You don't know 3 whether or not it would follow, as an 4 engineer? 5 A. If it's already on the list? 6 Q. Assuming it is on the list, 7 wouldn't it follow that you would need to 8 have some kind of plan if this stuff 9 escaped? 10 A. I don't know. 11 MR. NEWSOM: Objection. Asked and 12 answered. If you have answered, tell him. 13 If not-- 14 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 15 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you know 16 whether or not this landfill is lined? 17 A. I think that one of them is. I 18 don't know which one. 19 Q. Which one? 20 A. I don't know. 21 Q. Do you know what kind of lining 22 they have? 23 A. I don't know. 0075 1 Q. Is it possible for you to check 2 and find out? 3 A. Sure. I can ask, sure. 4 MR. NEWSOM: No. You can ask him OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035463 5 what he knows and doesn't know, but we're 6 not going to agree -- he has got to show up 7 at a trial on Monday. He has got a lot to 8 do. We're not going to do all these 9 things. You can ask him what he knows and 10 doesn't know. 11 MR. CLARK: Some of this 12 information has already come out in other 13 depositions. 14 MR. NEWSOM: If it's clearly 15 something that somebody else has not had 16 the opportunity to address, we will get to 17 that. In fairness, I think you're entitled 18 to that. We're not just going to go -- 19 MR. HANKINS: Nobody has asked 20 about the R&P and worse case scenario. 21 MR. CLARK: The stuff about the 22 cap is in deposition testimony. 23 MR. HANKINS: Has anybody 0076 1 testified about what would happen if these 2 things burst? 3 MR. CLARK: I don't recall that. 4 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 5 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Is there a plan 6 in place for that? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. Do you think there should be one? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: I'm not a 11 geologist. 12 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) But you're the 13 plant manager? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. You're the plant manager? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Yes, he is. He just 17 said he was. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You're 19 responsible for the failure of any of these 20 landfills and for that catchment? 21 A. That landfill, like I said, was 22 put in place before I came here. 23 Q. I understand that. 0077 1 A. And we have people that have 2 worked on developing that landfill and I 3 believe that when the company put the 4 landfill in effect that they didn't use a 5 liner, thinking they didn't need to have a 6 plan if it failed. 7 Q. So then there should be a plan; is 8 that correct? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. You would think that there would OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035464 11 be according to what you were just 12 testifying? 13 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 14 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 15 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you know 16 whether or not these landfills have been 17 capped? 18 A. Again, I'm not a geologist. I 19 would only be speculating. 20 Q. So you don't know, that's your 21 answer? 22 A. No. 23 Q. You don't know whether they're 0078 1 capped or not? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Did there come a time at which the 4 leachate from the landfills became 5 problematic to the Anniston facility? 6 A. Repeat that. 7 Q. Did there ever come a time that 8 the leachate from the landfill, both 9 landfills, became a problem at the Anniston 10 facility? 11 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 12 MR. HANKINS: He asked me to 13 repeat it, that's what I'm doing. 14 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 15 You're being vague and hopelessly ambiguous 16 and going back twenty years. 17 MR. HANKINS: Purposely? I know 18 you're crazy. 19 MR. NEWSOM: Hopelessly, not 20 purposely. 21 22 (The last question is read back by 23 the court reporter.) 0079 1 2 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you know what 3 leachate is? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. You haven't beenschooled on 6 landfills? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. Are you aware that at one time the 9 leachate in the ditch next to Mars Hill 10 Baptist Church was as high as twenty-two 11 thousand parts per million? 12 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 13 THE WITNESS: I just told you I 14 don't know what leachate is. 15 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Or PCBs were at 16 that number? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035465 17 A. I don't know. 18 Q. When you came on board at the 19 Anniston facility, what problems existed 20 with PCB contamination? 21 A. When I came on board? When I 22 started in September? 23 Q. Yes. 0080 1 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 2 THE WITNESS: I think what you are 3 asking me is is when I took the job what 4 was going on in the community with PCBs. 5 Is that -- 6 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Yes. 7 A. When I came on board, when I took 8 the job, when I got in the plant, I knew 9 that we were remediating PCBs out in the 10 community. 11 Q. And did you attend meetings with 12 theEPA? 13 A. No, sir. 14 Q. Have you had any meetings with 15 anyone from the EPA? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Who? 18 A. I can't recall their names, but I 19 know there was four people from the EPA 20 knocked on our door three or four months 21 ago wanting to do an audit. 22 Q. And did they do that? 23 A. Yes, they did. 0081 1 Q. In conducting the audit, what did 2 they do? Was it a paper audit or did they 3 tour the plant or what did they do? 4 A. They did both. Did a field 5 inspection and paper audit. 6 Q. Was Brian Hoseclaw one of those 7 people? 8 A. No, sir. 9 Q. Did they take any samples on site 10 or off site? 11 A. They took pictures. I can't 12 remember if they took samples or not. They 13 may have. I can't remember. 14 Q. Did they have any containers with 15 them for sampling? 16 A. I honestly can't remember. They 17 may have. I can't remember. 18 Q. Could you tell us for the record 19 what they took pictures of? 20 A. They took pictures of basically 21 some of the outfalls that we have on the 22 sites. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035466 23 Q. What are outfalls? 0082 1 A. It is just a monitoring place 2 where you take a water sample. They took a 3 picture of maybe one or two of them. They 4 walked around and inspected other sites. 5 Q. You don't know whether they took 6 any samples from those outfalls? 7 A. I honestly can't remember. I 8 don't think so. 9 Q. Can you describe in essence what 10 is the purpose of the remediation plan and 11 what are the different facets of it? 12 MR. NEWSOM: I'm going to object 13 to the form. I mean, he can do it. This 14 is going beyond his expertise and seems 15 like a total waste of time to me. You can 16 give your -- 17 MR. HANKINS: He is the plant 18 manager. He is like a general in the 19 battlefield. He is the one who is right on 20 the line. I have been there so I know what 21 the plant is responsible for. 22 MR. NEWSOM: He can't be the 23 general and the man on the line. He's the 0083 1 general. 2 MR. HANKINS: He's both just like 3 Grant. 4 MR. NEWSOM: Just tell him your 5 understanding of it. 6 THE WITNESS: I am not going to 7 attempt to pretend to be a geologist. 8 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) I don't mean for 9 you to. 10 A. My understanding -- my 11 understanding is remediation, the gist of 12 it in a nutshell, is where we have issues 13 and we remove the soil and replace the 14 soil. 15 Q. You removed four hundred thousand 16 tons of soil, didn't you? 17 MR. NEWSOM: If you know. 18 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't know, 19 sir. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you know 21 whether or not a lot of soil was removed 22 and sent to Emile, Alabama? 23 A. I do know that some soil was sent 0084 1 there. 2 Q. Some? 3 A. I do not know the amount, sir. 4 Q. Would you be surprised if it was OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035467 5 seven percent of the landfill? 6 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 7 There is no testimony. 8 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Twenty percent? 9 A. I don't know on what basis. I 10 would be surpri sed. 11 Q. Would you be surprised if Mr. 12 Mayausky testified in his other deposition 13 that it was ten percent to twenty percent 14 of the landfill? 15 MR. NEWSOM: Wasn't what he said 16 possibly twenty thousand pounds -- or 17 tons? 18 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Well, based on 19 your -- have you had any dealings 20 whatsoever with the landfills? 21 A. No, sir. 22 Q. Not at any plant or facility that 23 you work with? 0085 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Why did they put you in this hot 3 spot? 4 A. I think I'm qualified for it, sir. 5 Q. But you haven't dealt with 6 landfills. You don't know about leachate. 7 You don't know what the cooking nature of 8 landfills can be. You don't know how many 9 tons of soil has been removed. You don't 10 know anything about landfills, but they put 11 you in the middle of this hot spot. Why 12 would they do that? 13 A. Well 14 MR. NEWSOM: Obj ection. Obj ect to 15 the form. 16 THE WITNESS: Well, he knows 17 nothing about electrical. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Who? 19 A. Jack Wallace. 20 Q. Who's Jack Wallace? 21 A. The guy who runs GE, General 22 Electric. He knows nothing about 23 electricity. 0086 1 Q. He's the CEO though? 2 A. He's not an electrical engineer. 3 Q. He's the CEO, but I bet you he is 4 learning about PCBs right now in the Hudson 5 River. I guarantee you that. 6 A. Uh-huh. 7 Q. And you should be learning about 8 them, too? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Let's don't lecture 10 the witness. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035468 11 MR. HANKINS: I'm examining the 12 witness. 13 MR. NEWSOM: No, that was 14 lecturing the witness. 15 MR. HANKINS: He was lecturing me. 16 MR. NEWSOM: You're not going to 17 insult the witness. Listen to me. You're 18 not going to insult this witness. 19 MR. HANKINS: You listen to me. I 20 didn't insult anybody. Do you understand 21 me? 22 MR. NEWSOM: Well, you better make 23 sure you don't. 0087 1 MR. HANKINS: And you better make 2 sure you -- 3 MR. NEWSOM. Treat him with 4 respect, you understand that? 5 MR. HANKINS: You treat me with 6 respect, young man. 7 MR. NEWSOM: You do the same. You 8 do it to him and I'll do it to you. 9 MR. HANKINS: That's exactly what 10 I'm doing. And you're not telling me what 11 to do. Don't even think you will. You 12 won't. You will not. 13 MR. NEWSOM: I'm doing that. I 14 just did it. You treat him with respect. 15 MR. HANKINS: I've been treating 16 him with respect and I think he knows 17 that. You stay out of it. 18 MR. NEWSOM: You want to ask him 19 that? 20 MR. HANKINS: You stay out of it. 21 MR. NEWSOM: I'm not going to stay 22 out of it. 23 MR. HANKINS: Stay out of it. I'm 0088 1 asking this man questions. You stay out of OL ii. 3 MR. NEWSOM: No. I'm here as his 4 lawyer. 5 MR. HANKINS: And all you can do 6 is object. That's all you need to do and 7 shut up. 8 MR. NEWSOM: I will object and I 9 will make sure that you don't insult him. 10 MR. HANKINS:: Object and shut up. 11 MR. HANKINS:: No, sir. Don't tell 12 me to shut up. 13 MR. HANKINS:: I'm telling you to 14 shut up. 15 MR. NEWSOM: I object and protect 16 the witness. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035469 17 MR. HANKINS: Protect him all you 18 want to, but stay out of it. 19 MR. NEWSOM: Well, then treat him 20 with respect. 21 MR. HANKINS: Let him testify. I 22 did. Did I disrespect you? 23 THE WITNESS: I'm fine. 0089 1 MR. HANKINS: Okay. Stay out of 2 it. 3 MR. NEWSOM: No, sir. 4 MR. HANKINS: Don't insinuate that 5 I disrespected somebody that I feel empathy 6 for in any way. Don't even try to do it. 7 MR. NEWSOM: I'm not insinuating 8 9 MR. HANKINS: You were 10 insinuating. I did not do it. 11 MR. NEWSOM: Your tone is 12 indicative of it. 13 MR. HANKINS: If s indicative of 14 it to you, not to him. I did not talk to 15 him this way. I will not talk to him this 16 way because he has acted like a gentleman. 17 MR. NEWSOM: Well, good. 18 MR. HANKINS: And you haven't. 19 MR. NEWSOM: Then ask him 20 questions. 21 MR. HANKINS: I shall. 22 MR. NEWSOM: In my judgment, you 23 did and -- 0090 1 MR. HANKINS: I don't care what 2 your judgment is. Your judgment is flawed. 3 MR. NEWSOM: Well, that's your 4 view of it. 5 MR. HANKINS: You're damn right it 6 is. 7 I'm sorry, Mr. Cain. Now, we 8 talked a little bit before about liners and 9 you didn't know about liners. 10 THE WITNESS: Right. 11 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) And when I 12 talked to you about landfills and you 13 didn't know about landfills, that is just a 14 fact; is that correct? 15 A. That's a fact. 16 Q. And I'm not trying to malign you 17 when I say that you don't have awareness of 18 landfills. My question is why did they put 19 you in this mess? That was my question. 20 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 21 Q. And that's what he objected. And 22 he thought I was trying to malign you. I OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035470 23 wasn't and I want you to you know that. 0091 1 Okay? 2 A. (Witness nods head.) 3 MR. NEWSOM: Thank you. I 4 appreciate your saying that to him. 5 MR. HANKINS: I wasn't saying that 6 for your benefit. I guarantee you that. 7 MR. NEWSOM: I'm just saying I 8 appreciate you saying it. 9 MR. HANKINS: I don't want you to 10 appreciate it. I don't care if you do or 11 don't. 12 MR. NEWSOM: Well, I do. Thank 13 you. You can move ahead. 14 MR. HANKINS: I'll move ahead at 15 my own pace and when I feel like it. You 16 do not tell me when to move ahead. 17 MR. NEWSOM: Well, we can go 18 backwards if you want to but I -- 19 MR. HANKINS: You can go 20 backwards. 21 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) With regard to 22 remediation contractors, do you know 23 whether or not the remediation contractor 0092 1 who did the remediation did any testing on 2 the site? 3 A. No, I don't know. 4 Q. I'm going to skip over all this 5 stuff because it goes to what you -- okay. 6 Are you familiar -- the property purchase 7 plan was already out of sight by the time 8 you got there, wasn't it? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not 11 the Pensacola plant ever manufactured PCBs? 12 A. Not to my knowledge. 13 Q. The Huntsville plant? 14 A. Not to my knowledge. 15 Q. Have you since you became plant 16 manager made any contacts with the 17 residents in the neighborhood? 18 A. I have not initiated any contacts 19 with residents, but I have spoken to the 20 residents in all of Anniston on a regular 21 basis probably. 22 MR. WRIGHT: Residents of what? 23 THE WITNESS: Anniston. 0093 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) But you haven't 2 attended any group meetings with residents 3 to discuss with them the remediation 4 process or any other process? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035471 5 A. No, I have not. 6 Q. Are you familiar with the Bill 7 Moyer special that was on TV last week or 8 this week? 9 A. I heard of it, but I was at the 10 basketball game. 11 Q. Who was playing? 12 A. Tennessee and -- 13 MR. NEWSOM: It was the women's, 14 the women's. 15 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Okay. So you 16 didn't see the special? 17 A. No, I did not, sir. 18 Q. Have you been apprised of it or 19 made aware of it? 20 A. I saw what I read in the 21 newspaper. 22 Q. And you're aware that Monsanto was 23 included in the special? 0094 1 A. No, I was not made aware of that. 2 Q. Are you aware that the area below 3 this landfill was prone to flooding? 4 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't know that 6 per se, no. 7 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Has anyone told 8 you that? 9 A. Not that it was prone to flooding, 10 no. 11 Q. What did they tell you? 12 A. I know that there is a flood plain 13 there, but I don't -- I didn't -- 14 Q. Do you know what flood plain 15 means? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Did you finish with 17 the answer? 18 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 19 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you know what 20 flood plain means? 21 A. I did not interpret flood plain. 22 I knew that it was prone to flooding. 23 Q. Now, Mr. Mayausky testified that 0095 1 you have plants in Alabama, Florida and 2 South Carolina; is that correct? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Are there other plants in Alabama 5 other than Huntsville and Anniston? 6 A. Excuse me. We have a plant in 7 Foley, Alabama. 8 Q. Where? 9 A. Foley. 10 Q. Where is that? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035472 11 A. It is right across the bay from 12 Pensacola. 13 MR. NEWSOM: There is one 14 isn't there one in Decatur? 15 THE WITNESS: Huntsville is 16 Decatur, I'm assuming. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) And Florida? 18 A. Excuse me? 19 Q. Where are the facilities in 20 Florida? 21 A. In Pensacola, Florida. 22 Q. Is there more than one in South 23 Carolina? 0096 1 A. Just Greenwood. 2 Q. Are you familiar with RCRA, 3 Research Conservation Recovery Act? Are 4 you familiar with that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Do you know whether or not the 7 Anniston plant complies with RCRA 8 requirements? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: I can tell you that 11 during the seven months that I have been 12 there -- 13 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) They have? 14 A. They have been complying with 15 RCRA. I can't speak to -- 16 Q. What about CERCLA? 17 A. Again, the seven months that I've 18 been there-- 19 Q. That's C-E-R-C-L-A. What about 20 the Solid Waste Disposal Act? 21 A. Your question is have we complied 22 with it? 23 Q. Yes. 0097 1 A. For the seven months that I have 2 been there. 3 Q. And that deals with landfills; 4 right? 5 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 6 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 7 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Are you aware of 8 the fact that PCB has volatilized? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. You don't know if you're aware? 11 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 12 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware. I 13 don't know. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you know 15 whether they can or not? 16 A. Yeah. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035473 17 Q. Are you familiar with the 18 phenomenon of volatilization? 19 MR. NEWSOM: As a general 20 principle or with respect to PCBs? 21 MR. HANKINS: As a general 22 principle right now. 23 THE WITNESS: No. 0098 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You didn't learn 2 anything about that in engineering school? 3 A. Yes, sir. I took chemistry 4 courses. Doesn't mean I remember 5 everything now. I'm an electrical 6 engineer. I can tell you -- do you 7 remember everything you took in -- 8 Q. No, I don't. 9 A. Okay. That's why I started 10 laughing. 11 MR. NEWSOM: Let's take a break. 12 13 (Whereupon, a short recess was 14 taken.) 15 16 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Now, if you are 17 called as a witness during the course of 18 the trial, are you familiar with what you 19 would be called to testify to? 20 A. No. 21 Q. You don't know what they would 22 call you for? 23 MR. NEWSOM: My guess is for the 0099 1 last seven months. 2 THE WITNESS: That's all I can 3 speak to. 4 Q. (Mr. Hankins) The last seven 5 months. What has happened during the last 6 seven months of significance? 7 A. Remediation was ongoing when I 8 walked in the door. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. I mean, that could be the only 11 thing that I could think of that was 12 significant that I could be called to 13 testify to. 14 Q. Can you testify extensively about 15 the remediation process? 16 A. No, I could not, sir. 17 Q. You could say it was going on? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Thank you. 20 MR. WRIGHT: No. 21 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you know Dr. 22 Jacobson at Wayne State? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035474 23 A. No, sir. Was he in the electrical 0100 1 engineering department? 2 Q. No. 3 A. No. 4 MR. WRIGHT: That is a husband and 5 wife team that do neurological research 6 relating to PCBs. 7 THE WITNESS: Unless they were in 8 electrical engineering I would not. 9 10 EXAMINATION BY MR. NEWSOM: 11 Q. Mr. Cain, would you very briefly 12 give us the organization at the plant in 13 terms of who reports to you and how often 14 you meet with them on production issues and 15 remediation issues? 16 A. Well, I have a staff of -- gosh, I 17 have got a human resources manager -- 18 MR. HANKINS: Objection as to 19 form, but you may answer. 20 THE WITNESS: I have a human 21 resources manager. I have an operation's 22 superintendent. I have an environmental 23 manager. I have a maintenance manager. I 0101 1 have an engineering manager, and reporting 2 to my staff is a remediation manager. And 3 we meet on -- some of that group meets on a 4 daily basis. Some of that group meets on a 5 weekly basis. 6 Q. (By Mr. Newsom) Who is the 7 remediation manager? 8 A. The remediation manager is Craig 9 Branchfield. 10 Q. How often do you meet with Mr. 11 Branchfield? 12 A. Every Monday. 13 Q. About remediation? 14 A. Yeah. He gives me an update every 15 Monday. 16 Q. How about your production people, 17 how often do you meet with them? 18 A. Daily. 19 Q. Do you let Mr. Branchfield do his 20 job under your supervision? 21 A. Yeah. I'm in close proximity to 22 what he's doing. 23 Q. Do you let your production people 0102 1 do their job under your supervision? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. How many people did you supervise 4 at Greenwood? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035475 5 A. Three hundred people. 6 Q. How many people at Anniston? 7 A. Eighty-five people. 8 Q. What about the capital -- 9 MR. HANKINS: I want to make one 10 obj ection to this whole line of 11 questioning, that it is leading, but go 12 ahead anyway. 13 Q. (By Mr. Newsom) How would you 14 compare the production operation at 15 Anniston to the production operation at 16 that plant in Greenwood, South Carolina? 17 A. Small. 18 Q. Which one is smaller? 19 A. Anniston is smaller than 20 Greenwood. 21 Q. Are you learning chemicals as you 22 go along? 23 A. Yes. 0103 1 MR. NEWSOM: Nothing further. 2 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. HANKINS: 4 Q. When you were interviewed for the 5 position of plant manager -- 6 A. Uh-huh. 7 Q. -- were there any other 8 candidates? 9 A. I wouldn't have knowledge of that, 10 sir. 11 Q. Why wouldn't you? 12 MR. NEWSOM: Object to form. 13 THE WITNESS: Excuse me? I don't 14 know why I would have knowledge if there 15 was other candidates. 16 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) When you were in 17 your other positions, were there other 18 candidates for the position that you were 19 applying for in Greenwood? 20 A. I don't have knowledge of it, but 21 I don't -- I don't know. What we do -- 22 what we do is we have development plans for 23 people and those development plans are 0104 1 based on a time. My development plan three 2 years ago said that I would be a plant 3 manager at a small plant at that -- 4 Q. But you're -- 5 MR. NEWSOM: Whoa. He's not 6 finished, I don't think. 7 THE WITNESS: At that time, I was 8 told -- I reviewed my development plan and 9 I was scaled at Illinois or Greenwood or 10 wherever I was, that I would be a small OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035476 11 plant manager at some plant within three 12 years. Three years later I was selected 13 and offered the Anniston plant. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) A friend of mine 15 who worked in Monsanto was in a similar 16 kind of development plan, but he was 17 superceded by someone else when they were 18 both interviewed for the same job. 19 MR. NEWSOM: Who is your friend? 20 Object to the form as to the friend. 21 Obj ect to the form. 22 THE WITNESS: I can't answer to 23 your friend, but I can tell you as a 0105 1 manager that I also am responsible for 2 development plans of the people that work 3 for me and reviewing what they're doing. 4 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) But what I'm 5 asking you is aren't there simultaneous 6 development plans going on all over the 7 Solutia network? 8 A. Sure, there are development plans. 9 Q. So they could (inaudible) at 10 Anniston, could they not? 11 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 12 THE WITNESS: I mean, I suppose 13 that. I mean, everybody is going to have a 14 development plan and I'm sure that there 15 could be other people that have them on 16 their development plan at the same time 17 that they're going to be a small plant 18 manager and that's what you're asking. 19 Yeah, it's possible. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Mr. Mayausky 21 testified -- all you know is that you were 22 asked to come to Anniston and you accepted; 23 is that correct? 0106 1 A. Excuse me? 2 Q. You were asked -- 3 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 4 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) -- to become a 5 plant manager at Anniston and you accepted; 6 is that correct? 7 A. No, that's not correct. 8 Q. Well, what is the circumstance? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: The circumstances 11 that brought me to Anniston, I was 12 interviewed and I was selected to be a 13 plant manager initially at the Foley plant 14 which is in Alabama. That's where I was 15 going first. I was going to be a plant 16 manager whether I came to Anniston or OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035477 17 Foley. I was selected initially to go to 18 Foley. The plant manager at Decatur, 19 Alabama unexpectedly said I'm retiring in 20 two weeks. That left a gap. They looked 21 around the company and selected the next 22 person who was designated to move per his 23 development plant, which was Blake 0107 1 Hamilton. Blake Hamilton moved to Decatur, 2 Alabama the -- 3 Q. Where is the Foley plant? 4 A. The Foley plant is in Pensacola. 5 It's right across the bay. I said that 6 earlier. 7 Q. Yeah. 8 A. The plant manager at Foley, who 9 was going to retire, I was going to replace 10 him. He said I'm not in a hurry to leave, 11 I'm paraphrasing, I can stick around a 12 while. That left the Anniston plant open 13 for me then. 14 MR. NEWSOM: You go ahead and 15 finish up your answer. 16 THE WITNESS: Which was right up 17 where I wanted to be because three years 18 ago when I talked about wanting to be a 19 plant manager, I knew it had to start at a 20 small plant and Anniston was the plant that 21 I had in mind. 22 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Were there any 23 other plants that you had in mind? 0108 1 A. I had larger plants in mind. 2 but -- 3 Q. Which ones? 4 A. Larger plants? 5 MR. NEWSOM: He got a but in 6 there. 7 MR. HANKINS: He answered the 8 question. 9 MR. NEWSOM: He's not going to 10 answer it -- 11 MR. HANKINS. He's not going to 12 answer it? 13 MR. NEWSOM: You're interrupting 14 both of us now. He's not going to answer a 15 question until he finishes his answer to 16 the previous question. 17 MR. HANKINS: He already answered 18 this question. 19 MR. NEWSOM: He had a but in there 20 and was going to say something else. 21 MR. HANKINS: And I was going to 22 let him. You jumped in. I didn't. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035478 23 THE WITNESS: Where did I leave 0109 1 off? 2 3 (The last question was read back 4 by the Court Reporter.) 5 6 MR. NEWSOM: He had larger plants 7 in mind, but -- and finish that answer. And 8 then he can ask you anything he wants. 9 THE WITNESS: My but was going to 10 say that I understand that you have to go 11 -- it is a progression. You start with a 12 small plant. You work your way up to a 13 larger plant. That was the but. Just 14 because I wanted to go to a large plant 15 didn't mean I was going to go there. I 16 knew I had to start at a small plant and 17 work my way up to a large plant. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Are there any 19 African Americans in the larger plants? 20 A. In the larger plants? 21 Q. As plant manager? 22 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 23 That's -- object to the form. 0110 1 THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge 2 in the larger plants, no. 3 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) And the only 4 plant you were asked to manage was the 5 Anniston, Alabama plant? 6 MR. CLARK: Object to the form. 7 MR. NEWSOM: Are you listening to 8 him? He just testified about Foley. 9 MR. HANKINS: Look, don't talk to 10 me like that. 11 MR. NEWSOM: Don't argue with me. 12 Well, just listen to the answer and then -- 13 either you're not listening or -- 14 MR. HANKINS: Either you keep your 15 voice down or we're going to be arguing for 16 a long time, buddy, because you ain't 17 talking to me like that. 18 MR. NEWSOM: I'm here. 19 MR. HANKINS: I don't give a damn 20 where you are. 21 MR. NEWSOM: If you want to argue, 22 we'll argue as long as we need to. 23 MR. HANKINS: You got that right 0111 1 because that's my forte. 2 MR. NEWSOM: I believe you. 3 Please either listen to him -- 4 MR. WRIGHT: Can he just answer OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035479 5 the question? 6 MR. NEWSOM: Well, you know, maybe 7 we misheard. Can he just answer the 8 question? 9 THE WITNESS: And the question was 10 was Anniston the only plant? 11 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Yes. 12 A. And then I said the answer was 13 no. 14 Q. And the other plant was Foley? 15 A. Foley. 16 Q. Were there any larger plants that 17 you could have been plant manager at? 18 A. And again I just said you have to 19 start at a small plant before you go to a 20 larger plant. 21 Q. I understand that. But was there 22 any larger plant that you could have gone 23 to? 0112 1 MR. NEWSOM: Objection. Asked and 2 answered. 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Has anybody ever 5 jumped from a small plant to a larger? 6 MR. NEWSOM: Whoa. I'm sorry. 7 You're getting confused. Small to large 8 they do go from. You first start at a 9 small plant. 10 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) You couldn't go 11 to Foley, right, because the guy decided he 12 didn't want to retire; is that correct? 13 A. Right. The guy at Foley. 14 Q. So the only plant that was 15 available was Anniston? 16 A. Was the Anniston plant. 17 Q. So you came in time for the 18 trial? 19 MR. CLARK: Object to the form. 20 THE WITNESS: My arrival did not 21 come here for the trial. 22 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Are you sure? 23 A. I'm positive of that. 0113 1 MR. CLARK: Object to the form. 2 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) The only plant 3 that you were offered that you could accept 4 was Anniston, Alabama; is that correct? 5 A. No, that's not correct. They 6 offered me Foley and when they said -- when 7 I was offered, if I did not want to go to 8 Anniston, then I could say no and still 9 hold out for Foley. 10 Q. But you wouldn't be plant manager OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035480 11 until this other guy retired? 12 A. That's probably true because he is 13 still there but-- 14 Q. The only -- 15 MR. NEWSOM: Finish your answer. 16 Whoa. Please, Grover, just let him answer. 17 MR. HANKINS: Sorry. 18 THE WITNESS: I would not19 right. I would not be a plant manager 20 until he retired. But I have the option to 21 say no. Nobody told me I had to come 22 here. I had the option to say no all along 23 the way. The only -- 0114 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) But that was the 2 only vacancy though? 3 A. Exactly. 4 Q. That was the only one that you had 5 a true offer for, Anniston? 6 MR. NEWSOM: I object to the 7 form. 8 THE WITNESS: That's not true. 9 MR. NEWSOME: It mischaracterizes 10 his prior testimony. 11 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Did you have an 12 offer for Foley? 13 A. I had an offer for Foley, yes. I 14 said that. 15 Q. A written offer? 16 A. Internally. Our offers don't come 17 --this is an internal promotion. I'm not 18 going to get a letter that says -- 19 Q. You get a memorandum? 20 MR. NEWSOM: Hold on. Larry, are 21 y'all listening? Did y'all listen to what 22 he said? 23 MR. WRIGHT: We listened, Eddie. 0115 1 Why don't you let him ask the questions and 2 finish? The deposition would have been 3 over tin minutes ago if -- 4 MR. NEWSOM: Y'all didn't listen 5 to what he's saying. He doesn't have to 6 say it twelve times. 7 MR. WRIGHT: Are you done? Can we 8 ask one more question? 9 MR. NEWSOM: Yes. 10 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) If you wanted to 11 be a plant manager the only place that you 12 could have been a plant manager in 13 September of 2000 was Anniston, Alabama; is 14 that correct? 15 A. No, that's not correct. Because I 16 was told that if I said no, if I said no, OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035481 17 then they would try to work something else 18 out. 19 Q. But still the only vacancy was 20 Anniston. Was there -- 21 A. If you're asking me if that was 22 the only vacancy in a small plant at that 23 time on September 1, it was Anniston. 0116 1 Q. It was the only offer -- 2 MR. NEWSOM: Whoa. Grover, 3 please. He wasn't finished. 4 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Were you 5 finished? 6 A. Yes, go ahead. 7 Q. The only offer at that time was 8 Anniston? 9 A. No, I said that's not true. There 10 was Foley still. That was still an offer. 11 Even though he had not retired, I still had 12 that option of going to Foley. 13 MR. NEWSOM: Can he just take a 14 minute and explain again what happened at 15 Foley? It may clear it up for everybody. 16 MR. WRIGHT: We heard it, Eddie. 17 We heard it and we don't need your 18 testimony. If he could just finish 19 answering the question we would be done and 20 gone. 21 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Anniston, 22 Alabama in September of 2000, was -- you're 23 saying that Foley was an option for you? 0117 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. But if you wanted to actually 3 become a plant manager at that time, 4 Anniston was the only possibility, was it 5 not? 6 A. No, that's still not true. 7 Q. What I'm saying is, if you were 8 not going to wait until this other 9 gentleman retired Anniston, Alabama was the 10 only -- 11 A. That's not true, sir. 12 MR. NEWSOM: Objection. Asked and 13 answered. If you have answered it, David, 14 you tell him and we'll be done. 15 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Was there 16 another one? 17 A. I will repeat what I said already, 18 which was I could have said no and I could 19 have still went to Foley and they would 20 have reshuffled the deck and found 21 something else. I elected to come to 22 Anniston. I was not told -- let me OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035482 23 finish. 0118 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I was not told that I had to come 3 to Anniston. Let me say this for the 4 record because I have had to do deal with 5 this in seven months since I have been 6 here. I have had people question my 7 ability and my competency to be in this 8 job. I've worked in five different 9 industries, four different companies, I 10 have managed three hundred people, millions 11 of dollars of assets, I have lectured at 12 college level, I have written two books. I 13 have got a lot more -- I've even started my 14 own community organization, took it 15 nationwide. I think that qualifies me for 16 people leadership at a plant. Now, I have 17 got people that are specicialists that work 18 for me who know the process. One of the 19 things I have often said about a good 20 engineer and anybody else is you don't have 21 to know everything upstairs but you need to 22 know where to go to get the answer. For 23 seven months, I have had to deal with that 0119 1 because people have said that and I think 2 that as I've gotten out in the community 3 that I have convinced people that I must 4 know something about leadership because I 5 am running a plant and we have not had a 6 problem. We have not had a circular 7 release in four years, nor the seven months 8 since I've been there. We haven't had any 9 FNH problems. That plant has run for the 10 seven months that I have been there. It 11 just -- I don't know if that's what you're 12 getting at. I wasn't brought here because 13 I'm black or because I'm a figure head. I 14 think that I'm well qualified to run that 15 plant and that there are people that are 16 around me that know the technical specifics 17 of what it takes to run that plant, too. 18 I'm just -- I don't mean to vent on you. 19 But it's -- 20 Q. I don't mind and I'm not 21 questioning your ability. I'm not saying 22 that you're not qualified. My question is 23 whether Monsanto had a motive for moving 0120 1 you as a chess pawn? 2 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 3 It insults him. It's embarrassing to you 4 to even say. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035483 5 MR. HANKINS: This is litigation. 6 MR. NEWSOM: There is also decorum 7 in any facet of life including litigation. 8 You can insult him and embarrass yourself. 9 MR. WRIGHT: There is also decorum 10 in corporate ethics and corporate 11 responsibility. 12 MR. NEWSOM: That's right. 13 MR. WRIGHT: A jury is going to 14 decide - 15 MR. NEWSOM: Exactly. This man 16 is qualified for any position is Monsanto's 17 facility. 18 MR. WRIGHT: Why did they send him 19 to Anniston, Alabama in September of 2000. 20 MR. HANKINS: That's the question. 21 THE WITNESS: My development plan 22 says a small plant and a -- 23 MR. NEWSOM: Three years ago. 0121 1 THE WITNESS: Three years ago. 2 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) But see -- this 3 is the last time I'm going to phrase this 4 question to you. My understanding of what 5 you testified was that you could have gone 6 to Foley, they would have done some 7 reshuffling if you had said no to Anniston, 8 but you would not have been a plant 9 manager; is that correct? 10 A. No, I would have still been a 11 plant -- I wasn't going to go to Foley -- 12 MR. NEWSOM: No. Let him finish. 13 THE WITNESS: I was not going to 14 go to Foley at anything less than a plant 15 manager. I don't know if that's what you 16 interpreted, but that's not what I meant. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Well, I 18 misunderstood you. 19 A. I think that was a 20 misunderstanding because my understanding 21 was I was going to be a plant manager 22 whether it was at Foley or Anniston. 23 Q. Even if this guy didn't want to 0122 1 retire? 2 A. Oh, he was going to retire. 3 Q. They were going to push him out 4 the door? 5 MR. NEWSOM: Let me -- I hope this 6 helps. Blake was at Anniston, a small 7 plant. This actually goes to the Decatur, 8 Alabama plant. The plant manager there 9 abruptly decided to retire. 10 MR. HANKINS: I understand that. OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035484 11 MR. NEWSOM: And so they needed to 12 fill that position which impacted the other 13 positions, you see. 14 MR. HANKINS: I understand that. 15 MR. NEWSOM: That meant that there 16 was then going to be a vacancy at Anniston 17 and the Foley guy agreed grudgingly to stay 18 on because since he was already at Foley 19 and now there was a need at Anniston -- 20 MR. HANKINS: That is not what he 21 testified. 22 MR. NEWSOM: It is too. Is that 23 what you said? 0123 1 THE WITNESS: That's what I meant. 2 MR. HANKINS: My understanding of 3 what he testified was that the man -- he 4 was slated to go to Foley. The plant 5 manager at Foley decided that he did not -- 6 let me finish -- did not want to retire at 7 that time. Anniston was open and they sent 8 him to -- or he was allowed to apply to 9 Anniston if he wanted it. 10 MR. NEWSOM: Can you let him 11 explain it? 12 MR. WRIGHT: Let me just make this 13 suggestion. 14 MR. NEWSOM: Can he just state it, 15 Larry? 16 THE WITNESS: I think there was a 17 misunderstanding. The plant manager at 18 Foley did not first decide, hey, I don't 19 want to retire. That's not what happened. 20 That came after. After Blake left, I have 21 the option of going to Foley, Alabama as a 22 plant manager or Anniston, Alabama as a 23 plant manager. 0124 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Is Foley in 2 Alabama? 3 A. Foley is in Alabama. 4 MR. NEWSOM: In the Gulf. 5 THE WITNESS: It's in the Gulf. I 6 had selected Anniston three years ago in my 7 development plan. I looked around the 8 company and I said that's the plant that I 9 want to start off in. That is a good small 10 plant for me. If s got a lot of -- a good 11 chemical. That's where I want to go. I 12 selected it. I went to my superiors and 13 said that if something comes open in that 14 plant, I would like to be considered for 15 it. 16 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Do you have the OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035485 17 development plan that says, for three years 18 ago, that said that you had that, is it 19 written somewhere? 20 A. I don't know if there are records. 21 I mean, every year those things are 22 revised. 23 Q. What is a development plan, is it 0125 1 a written document that travels with you? 2 Is it part of your personnel file? 3 A. It is a document that I have that 4 I meet with my boss and say this is what I 5 want to do. Every year it gets updated. I 6 don't have my development plan from last 7 year. 8 Q. But did you have a written plan 9 back three years ago that could be 10 retrieved that said I want Anniston as a 11 plant? 12 A. No, I don't. No. 13 Q. Is there any writing of that? 14 A. No. 15 Q. So the development plan is verbal? 16 A. No, sir. No. The development 17 plan is written. The development plan 18 doesn't say, Dave, three years from now 19 you're going to Anniston, Alabama. No, it 20 says you're going to be a small plant 21 manager. I initiate the conversation with 22 my superiors and say, you know, if 23 something comes open in Anniston, I would 0126 1 like to be considered for it. 2 Q. Who did you talk to and say that 3 to? 4 A. I spoke to Dennis Cavnar. 5 Q. And he is in St. Louis? 6 A. He is no longer with the company. 7 Q. Did he used to be in St. Louis? 8 A. He used to be in St. Louis. 9 Q. How did you know about Anniston 10 three years ago? 11 A. How did I know about the Anniston 12 plant? I knew about all the plants. You 13 know, I know where all -- 14 Q. Why Anniston? 15 MR. NEWSOM: Whoa. Were you 16 finished with your answer? 17 THE WITNESS: I mean, I think 18 that- I mean, I knew where most of 19 Monsanto's, Solutia's plants were. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Okay. What was 21 it about Anniston that stood out in your 22 mine? OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035486 23 A. Well, first of all, Anniston was a 0127 1 small plant. If you look around our 2 company, sir, there aren't too many small 3 plants left. My options are limited. 4 Q. What about Texas City? 5 A. That is a large plant, sir. 6 Q. It's large? 7 A. That is a huge plant. 8 Q. With regard to the Anniston 9 facility, three years ago the problems were 10 here? 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. Were you aware that the problems 13 were here? 14 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 15 Asked and answered. Vague and ambiguous. 16 THE WITNESS: Three years ago, I 17 can't remember what I knew about Anniston 18 three years ago. I really can't, but I 19 knew that I knew where the plant was. I 20 knew where all of Solutia's plants were. I 21 looked around the company in developing my 22 plan and my career and charted moves and 23 said there is a small plant that I would 0128 1 like to go to. 2 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Would you want 3 to pick a small plant with the kind of 4 problems that this thing had three years 5 ago? 6 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: Based on what I have 8 seen in the company in the sixteen years I 9 have been there, yes, I would have chosen 10 the plant. 11 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Is it your 12 testimony under oath as you sit here today 13 14 MR. NEWSOM: He knows he's under 15 oath. Please don't remind him he's under 16 oath. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Is it your 18 testimony as you sit here under oath that 19 Anniston was your first choice three years 20 ago to be a plant manager at a small plant? 21 MR. NEWSOM: Asked and answered. 22 THE WITNESS: I thought I answered 23 that already. 0129 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Would you answer 2 it again, please? 3 A. I said that I met with someone and 4 said that I would like to go, if something OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035487 5 comes up in Anniston, it is a small plant 6 that I would like to work at. It was one 7 that I picked out. Would I have gone to 8 another plant if nothing else was 9 available? Foley was going to be 10 available. 11 Q. Had you ever been to Anniston 12 before? 13 A. I have driven through Anniston 14 before, yes, sir. 15 Q. Had you ever been to the plant? 16 A. Not directly, no. 17 Q. Were you aware of the problems 18 with the environmental situation? 19 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Three years ago? 21 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 22 THE WITNESS: I did not have all 23 the facts. 0130 1 Q. (By Mr. Hankins) Had you had all 2 the facts, would you have wanted to go to 3 Foley or to Anniston? 4 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the form. 5 THE WITNESS: I think I said for 6 the record that when I was offered the j ob 7 to choose between Foley and Anniston, I 8 chose Anniston and I don't regret that 9 decision, sir. 10 MR. HANKINS: Thank you. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0131 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA 4 JEFFERSON COUNTY 5 6 I hereby certify that the above 7 and foregoing deposition was taken down by 8 me in stenotype, and the questions and 9 answers thereto were reduced to typewriting 10 under my supervision, and that the OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, David L..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035488 11 foregoing represents a true and correct 12 transcript of the deposition given by said 13 witness upon said hearing. 14 I further certify that I am 15 neither of counsel nor of kin to the 16 parties to the action, nor am I in anywise 17 interested in the result of said cause. 18 19 20 21 Donna Armstrong 22 23 OWENS 03-29-2001 Cam, DavidL..txt[8/22/2017 3:38:26 PM] HARTOLDMON0035489