Document pBD5824Kbra0njyR2jR1rgK8w

FILE NAME: Wagner (WAG) DATE: 1997 Apr 23 DOC#: WAG023 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Wayne Rabn UHI -z 1357 ORIGINAL IN THE SUP ER IO R COU RT OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE IN AND FOR NEW CASTLE COUNTY IN RE: ASBESTOS LITIGATION S a m u e l E. L o d g e U k l e y G. F u l l e r James Ligenfelter Joe Andreavich Thelma Clark J o h n G. C h o m a B e r n a r d V. C o m e g y s M i c h a e l A. J o s w i c k Paul Muff Jerry Ginn C. A . 95C- 11- 0 0 9 C.A. S95C-08-242 C.A. 95C-08-185 C. A . 95C-10 - 3 0 C.A. =95C-11-121 C.A. 95C-03-27 C.A. F95C-03-67 C.A. 96C-02-125 C.A. f 96C- 0 3 - 2 6 9 C.A. 56C-03-252 ','ilmir.gton , D e l a w a r e A o r i 1 2 3rd, 1997 Deposition of WAYNE RABON, taken before D e b o r a h J .V,'. K o c u i n , a C o u r t R e p o r t e r a n d N o t a r y Public, on Ap ril 23ra, 1997 at 2:00 p.m. at the o f f i c e s of J AC O B S & CRUKPLA R, P.A., 2 East 7th Street, Wilmington, Delaware. DELMARVA REPORTING Registered Professional Reporters P. 0. B o x 517 Bear, Delaware 19701-0517 302-734-7647 or 302-571-8152 (302) DELHARVA 734-7647 REPORTING (302) 571-8152 A-160 1 2 EY HR. HEDRICK: Q . H o w a r e t h e s e a : e s r e c c r c s arranged; are they arranged chror.oh h cv ? cov.-n ,;v easterner They're narked by casterer, Q m e c cv cuc eav s tae custcmerr Q .s t c r,e r , ~ c c o C h e n i c t i s C c ".eco, c r.a n c r a r e a n d it vras I t h i n k a b o u t t h a t tir.e. That 's only card I could find. ia Q. K h a t is the r e c o r d s retent policy at Charles Wagner presently? 2 0 A . Ke have n o n e . 2 T Q How far back do vour sales -ecords ao? 02 ) A- 161 8 15 2 13 1 A. T h e y w e n t b a c k p r o b a b l y to ''5 0 2 several years ago and then we had a floor. Our roof 3 c av e d in and we lost a lot of records. Right now I've 4 go t t h e m -- t h a t h a p p e n e d to be in an o l d p i l e s t a c k e d 5 just laying somewhere, I suppose, but right now I've 5 got t h e m to a b o u t '80, m y r e c o r d s . 7 Q. Sir, you said this record ./as 1n 8 an old each laving somewhere? g 10 old records 11 Q ah; we kept them upstairs, m e D i d y o u i n d i v i d u a l l y go to -this 12 o l d s a c k 13 14 Q 15 records ? Yes, I did. -- l a y i n g s o m e w h e r e to get t h e s e 16 Yes, I did; I looked, yes. 17 Q- 18 19 Q- 20 were Wh e r e was it located? Upstai r s . Are there other records that 21 A. There were other records up 22 there. Now there's no records up there because they (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 571- 8 1 5 2 A-162 1 5 1 MR. HEDRICK: Correct. 2 THE WITNESS: No. 3 MS. YOUNG: For any customer? 4 MR. HEDRICK: Correct. 5 THE WITNESS: They were up 6 t h e r e , y e s . T h e y vrent -- I c u e s s t h e y 7 ere in the '70s I w o u 1d think, records in 8 the '70s and a f t e r that , t he y were G cov:nstairs . 10 BY MR. H E D R I C K 11 Q And the records down s t a i r s bee in in 1980? --1-"3> 1 Q. Yes 'why a r e t h e r e c o r d s u p s t a i r s ? 15 A. Because we have no room, had no 16 room to keep them. There was too m a n y of them. We 17 k e p t t h e m f o r e v e r u n t i l we h a d the f l o o d a n d t h e n t h e y 18 w e r e d e s t r o y e d . 19 Q. So there were some records that 20 w e r e d e s t r o y e d b e c a u s e of t h e f l o o d ? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. The r e c o r d s u p s t a i r s are not (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A - 163 1 inclusive of all possible records that you may have 2 h a d for c e r t a i n c u s t o m e r s , is th a t c o r r e c t ? 3 A. They are inclusive. The records 4 that were upstairs were old and they're no longer 5 around. 6 7 to 1980 Th e o n l y r e c o r d s I h a v e n o 1,,' is Q. Let r.e r e p h r a s e m y q u e s t i o n . 5 For records for Amoco C:ie~:cals 10 le t ' s use that as the cust o m e r , is it p o s s i b l e that 11 the f l o o d w o u l d h a v e d a m a g e d or d e s t r o y e d s o m e of the 12 r e c o r d s th a ulc, h a " e had, h a d y o u n o t h a d s 13 flood for the sales records? 14 A . Very possible. 1 5 0. You don't know whether the 16 r e c o r d s that you p r o d u c e d today is i n c l us i v e of every 17 s a l e s r e c o r d s t h a t C h a r l e s A. W a g n e r m a y h a v e h a d 18 p r i o r to the flood, is t h a t c o r r e c t ? 19 A. I still don't understand the 20 q uestion, but t hat's the o n l y p i e c e of p a p e r that I 21 found. 22 Q. Hv q u e s t i o n is, sir, I t h in k you (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 7\ T /* A BY MR. HEDRICK: Q. Sir, c o u l d y o u i d e n t i f y v:hat he s been marked as Exhibit P-4? A . T h a t ' s v.'h a r I f o u n d in o n e of the files. Q ith a t r s the d o c u m e n t , s i r '-1 A . It's a Continental Minerals Corporation reactivated old Desert Minerals. M i n e r a l s is v.-'nac the s u p p l i e r u s e d ec be for D e s e r t l e , D e s e r t a l c '57. Q is it a l e t t e r ? z_ Yes, I c r e s s . ft l o c k s tike a letter, n o t h i n g signed. It's not signed so maybe it's ]ust a flyer. It's probably a flyer put cut by the s u p p lier. Q here you distributing Trer.olite please. A , No . Q Let me finish the question, A . I thought you were finished. Q. I wasn't. DELMARVA REPORTING (3 02) 7 3 4 - 7 6 4 7 (302) 571-8152 2 1 1 that Charles Kagner was distributing Desert Talc 2 produces during the peri od of time when Charles Wagner received this memo? A. No, we v/ere n o t . 17 1 was the 5 l a s t t i m e we d i s t r i b u t e d D e s e r t a l c 57. 6 Q. DO y o u k n o w w h y it was that / C h a r l e s ^h g n e r r e c e i v e d t h i s m e m o in 19 7 S ? 1 8 2% . I already s tated I think it's G o r c b a b l v b e c h d c-e we ',,'ere on a 1 i s t as a d i s t i i b u t c r 10 years earlier. 11 Q. in the m o m e n t , sir, it s ays -- 12 a n d I'l l q u o t e it, it's in the t h i r d p a r a g r a p h if you w a n t to see it. 14 "However, we recognize that 15 c u r r e n t r e g u l a t i o n s do exist, and it is p r u dent to 16 evaluate potential hazards whenever any suspect 17 m a t e r i a l is u s e d . " 18 Did you have any knowledge 19 before the time that Charles Wagner received this memo 20 that there were potential hazards connected with using 21 Desertalc products? 22 MS. YOUNG: O b j ec t i o n . T h e r e 's (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 571-8152 A-166 2 5 1 have the prod uct at the time. 2 Q. Let me show you what has been 3 m a r k e d E x h i b i t P-5. If yo u can d e s c r i b e for the 4 record what that document is? 5 A. 6 of Mines. Letter from United States Bureau 7 Q. W h a t 1s the date? p D e c e m b e r of '78. G Q. Wh en you say, sir, that Charles io W agner was not a d i s t r i b u t o r of D e s e r t a l c after 1971, 11 t h a t is b a s e d , si r, on t h e f a c t t h a t y o u c o u l d n ' t f i n d 12 a n y r e c o r d s post- 1971, is that c o r r e c t ? 13 a , *e s . 1 4 Q. This letter that has been marked 15 E x h i b i t P-5 is to Jack.son B e a m a n of C o n t i n e n t a l 16 M i n e r a l s C o r p o r a t i o n . Do y o u k n o w h o w it b e c o m e part 17 of the records of Charles Wagner? 18 A. No, I r e a l l y don't, e xc ept that 19 it ties in w i t h this l e t t e r here, I guess. 20 (Indicating. I really don't. 21 Q. 'Exhibit P-6 is a le tter from the 22 U n i t e d S ta t e s D e p a r t m e n t of the I n t e r i o r d a t e d (302) DELHARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A-167 1 to F e b r u a r y 26th, 1979 to the A s s i s t a n t S e c r e t a r y to OSHA, s i g n e d b y the d i r e c t o r . Let me show- yo u that 3 d o c u m e n t , sir. 4 Do you k n o w how that came to 5 become cart of the records of Charles Keener? 6 A . No, I don't. 7 Q Do y o u r e c a l l r e a d i n g or see. d o c u m e n t in 1979? I d o n ' t reca l l , but I 'm sure 10 U iV i L. . 11 Q Can I h a v e it back, p l e a s e ? 12 T h a n k v o u . 13 In E x h i b i t P-7 at the to o it 14 says "Desertale technical data." Can you just explain 15 to me, sir, w h y C h a r le s W a g n e r has that d o c u m e n t ? 16 A. Because they send out tech 17 s h e e t s . I d o n ' t k n o w w h a t d a t e t h i s is. 18 Q. "They" meaning Charles Wagner 19 s e n ds it to c u s t o m e r s ? 20 h. No. T h e s u p p l i e r s e n d s it to us 21 if t h e c u s t o m e r w a n t s it. T h e y d o n ' t all w a n t it, but 22 sometimes they want the spec sheet. (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A- 168 ntlArnfaff yni 2 2 MR. HED R IC K: Y o u are instructing him not to answer that question? MS. YOUNG: Yes. MR. HEDRICK.: Sorry, sir. f a t h e r d i s c l c s e d hi s h e m e a d d r e s s . I .s t vas a s k i n g the q u e s t i o n . If y o u don't m e n t to d i s c l o s e it, t h a t 's fine. MS. YOUNG: Them :en 10 r e p r e s e n t a t i o n that he d o e s n ' t want to . ct <* ci to .nsrrucnion r>Y M R . Q .`ha t is y o u r p o s i t i o n at Cr.arlei 14 W aar.er? 15 r-resiaent . 1 5 Q. How long have you been the 17 p r e s i d e n t of C h a r le s VJagner? 18 A. 12 y e a r s - - I ' m s o r r y 10 years. 19 Q. When did you first become 20 associated with Charles Wagner? 21 A. 1961. 22 Q. Could you give chronologically (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 7 3 ' ----- 2) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A- 16 9 the office? A . Clerical. Q clerical? What w e r e y o u r d u t i e s at A . I would type the memos on the customer's sales cards Q . Ivhat w a s y o u r n e x t p o s i t i o n in the office? T I au e s s t h a t was it. I r-e e r. I did other things in the office. Q. W h e n was the nex t tirre y o u r t i t l e c h a n g e d fret, c l e r i c a l to s o m e t h i n g e l s e ? 7 . I .wou 1 c s a y 1S 7 . Q. that were you? A . Pres Ldent. Q Can y o u d e s c r i b e for me, sir, what the m a r k e t a r e a is f o r C h a r l e s W a g n e r ? A . The Delaware Valley area they call it. Q. Can you just tell me the state that comprise the market? A . Well, there's southern Jersey, DELMARVA REPORTING (302 ) 7 3 4 - 7 6 4 7 (302) 571- 8152 5 3 1 Asbestine talc? 2 A. 3 Q. bo, Idonot. Are there any located within the 4 records of Charles Wagner? 5 A. No . 6 Q. Do y ou k n o w if t h e r e w e r e an y | i 7 studies or tests done by Charles Wagner to determine r\ G if t h e re was a n v a s b e s t o s in A s b e s t i n e talc? 5 A . There was no tests done. 10 Q. Do you k n o w if t h e r e w e r e any 11 t e s t s d o n e b y a n y o t h e r s u p p l i e r of A s b e s t i n e t a l c or 12 w h e t h e r or n o t it c o n t a i n e d a s b e s t o s ? 13 A . N o , I a o n 1t . 14 Q. Can you tell me, sir, what 15 supplier or what company did Charles Wagner obtain 16 Desertalc from? 17 A. Desert Minerals. 18 Q. Did Charles Kagner at any time 19 obtain Desertalc from any other company? 2 0 A. No, we did not. 2 1 Q. Did Charles Wagner ever 22 distribute any Johns Manville products to Delaware? (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A - 171 A. Not that I k no w of. 2 Q. Did Charles Wagner ever 3 distribute Metrotalc 4651? A. I d o n 't k n o w what that is. 5 Q. So it would be c orrec t to say 6 t hat y o u d o n ' t k n o w if C h a r l e s W a g n e r e v e r d i s t r i b u t e d 7 chat ? A . ves . 5 Q. Do you k n o w if C h a r l e s W a g n e r 10 ever distributed any Whitaker, Clerk and Daniels 11 D r o d u c t s to D e l a w a r e ? 1 2 A . We did not They < 13 compeli tor. Q Did Charles Wagner 15 di s t r i b u t e W e s t e l l 2 02 ? 16 . We did not. 17 Q At any time? 18 A . At any time. 1 9 Q. Did Charles Wagner 2 0 drs t r ibute Polytalc 4615 to Delaware? 21 A . I'm sure we didn't 22 Q Did Charles Wagner (302) DELMARVA 734-7647 REPORTING (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A - 172 5 7 1 that. I thought you were talking about 2 Delaware. 3 EY MR. HEDRICK: A Q. Would the answer be correct that 5 you distributed Pfizer products? 6 MS. YOU11G: O b j e c t i o n ; that is 7 o u t s i d e of the s c o p e of the n o t i c e . 8 M o r e o v e r , t h a t e t h i b i t '.'/as n a r k e d at a p r e v r e u s d e p o t r tier, a r c t e s t arc r.y w a s 10 given on that subject. 11 MR. HEDRICK: ire you d i re ct ing 1 2 h i it, r. o t t c a.n s v e r ? 1 3 MS. Y C U K C : Yes. It's b e yo n d i * the scope of that notice. 15 16 BY MR. H E D R I C K : 17 Q. MR. SIPE: I s e c o n d that. Sir, are you aware of any OSHA 18 regulations pertaining to exposure to asbestos fibers? 19 A. I ' m n o t -- I d o n ' t k n o w of a n y 20 regulations, but I know over the years they have had 21 material out there about i t . 2 2 Q. When was the first time that you DELMARVA REPORTING (302) 734-7 64 7 (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A- 17 3 ' 5 8 1 remember seeing any material from OSHA regarding o 4 asbestos exposure? 3 A. I don't think I saw any. 1 probably got a notice from a lawyer. 5 Q. Do you recall the first time 6 tha t yo u r e c e i v e d any n ot i c e of any r e g u l a t i o n s c: a 7 li m it s that 0 SHA p l a c e d on b e i n g e xp o s e d to a sbe c c s fibers? 5 A. ho, I r e a l 1 '' c c n 't . I t 's a 10 w hile ago. 11 Q Do you remember the decade'5 12 in. * No . 1 3 Q ,7as it in the '7 0s or '8 0s or 14 9 0s? 15 A . I don't even know. It's not 16 '90s, n o . 1 7 Q. Y o u d o n 't k n o w w h e t h e r it was 18 the '70s or '80s? 19 A . No. 20 MR. HEDRICK: Let's take a 21 five-minute break. 22 (A b r i e f r e c e s s w a s t a k e n a f t e r (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 571- 8 1 5 2 a _ 1 ^7 4 6 0 1 THE VilTNESS: I do not know and 2 that's she o nl y c u s t o m e r as far as I know. O~v BY HR. HEDRICK: 4 Q. Sir, aid you ever come to an 5 a w a r e n e s s that e x p o s u r e to a s b e s t o s is d a n g e r o u s ? 6 A. F r o m r e a d i n g it , sure, ir. 7 n e w s p a p e r s and h e a r i n g it on t e l e v i s i o n . Q Do you recall the first S that you came to that awareness? 10 A. K o . It's a while ago. T T_ Q. Do you know the decade? 12 A. C c u i c have b e e n 20 y e a r s aco. 13 d o n 't r e a l l v kr.ow . 1 4 MR. HEDRICK: Those are all the 1 5 questions I have to the extent that, as I 15 d i s c u s s e d with Phebe, I'm not going to 17 take the court's time to go through each 18 and every in s t r u c t i o n not to answer not 19 based on the a t t o r n e y / c l i e n t privilege. 20 To the extent that we need to 21 re-visit that, we will. I don't know that 22 we n e e d to, but if we do, we will. (302) DELMARVA REPORTING 734-7647 (302) 5 7 1 - 8 1 5 2 A - 17 5