Document mqk6M9R3ZJaYgZENZ2VwOdOvJ

FILE NAME: Eagle-Picher (EP) DATE: 1980 DOC#: EP027 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Direct Examination of Herman Huelster with BC Notes /?30S~ (?i/2 't*sdLo -^Tstt^. xV^^3VvVZ-^i-^-2^ 5Y"%S"' (Z^iJ-.-^^ S^i -f"-* v^- ' 1sr+'Ui<r^e^ /Y7Z 1>^V -F * / 2- ^= 7 ^2 z ^ Y ^ W 7^ ^ ,, V , fe A U ^ l y y t4> ) . & j ) > ^a / yy -r u ^ M i 'u s f f} xy^^P j j JjT /^Y j r7 b f'k o 6/ L 6>V o 7b "7<9 ,r2-'^ c^t^-efl %-^j A i? <^ \ uj ^ A ^ ^St^^tZyg) (/Q S) ^7/ 'cc^ep ' ','ry > i p ' A /A i^V y> y cc{P . K ~l\ r A Ce*TM^*x$ fcjU M . A ^ fU * M V !-A * "- S ^ A l ' ^ PL y ^ a d -, ^ u d d ^ ^ d /9 6 o k ^^ stJS&^ x? s^V b f' /-. /l'&a *^**y ^Pbo&P^PP <-,,,W- * - <P^(lc<3^ t% l^ /U J b ^ * ^ ^ K r M d J '** ^ ,, /{JS,V^JVUj }/ o ^ j 'f a <^ ?h r^^cL A- x 6LAtdf~ . -T - C ~ '-u T* y v; i 1 2 8UPERI0R COURT OF NEW JERSEY LAW DIVISION : MIDDLESEX COUNTY DOCKET NO. L-32392-77 3 ELEN 11. ZSANfilr as Executrix of tie ANDREW E. ZSAMBA, 4 Iso known as ANDREW ZSAMBA and - j ELEN ZSAMBA, In d iv id u ally , P la in tiffs, 6 vs. 7 TATE INSULATION CORP., a corp. 8 f the S tate of New Jersey; JOHNS- ANVILLE CORP. RAGLES PICHER INDUSTRIES, 9 NC., JOHNDOR ( f ic titio u s ) ; RICHARD OE (f ictitious) { RICHARD ROB 10 f i c t i t i o u s ) f 2KJEN ROE ( f i c t i t i o u s ) , DEPOSITION OF: BEKHAN USE HUELSTER 11 Defendants. 12 13 T R A N S CB I P T of stenographic notes of the 14 iroceedings in the above-entitled n a tte r , as taken before " i 15 ATRICIA M. LlNK*4nTLLEN, a Notary Public and C ertified & 16 thorthand Reporter of tbe^State of New Jersey ,cat the * 17 offices of .RCHWABTZ fc ANDfflJNO, ESQS., 60 Parfe?T ia ^ ^ fira rR , li few Jersey., on Thursday, August 28, 1980, commencing a t _ . 1 L0.10 a.m. 2< i P P B A BA N C R S: - 2 USVINSON, CONOVER, AXELROD & WHEATON, ESQS., BY: RONALD B. CRAYZEL, ESQ. , 2! Attorneys for the P la in tiffs. , c -- y$X- SEYMOUR SCHULMAN, C.SiR. Si? BY: PATRICIA M. LINK-WJUEN, -C.S.R. 10 Gurley Road Nixon, New Jersey ; p-t -S3 Vr-* . ; s* s X 8 M B O AU *- B -J. u 1 2 3 -s 4 5 6 7 8 V 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 .-a* ~ -* 4 PPEARANCES CONTINUED: ENRIGHT, POKIER ft LENNKT, ESQS., BY: MICHAEL P. MC GRATH, ESQ., Attorneys for the Defendant, S tate Insulation Corp. BODD, LARNER, RENT, CROSS, PICILLO ft ROSENBAUM, SSQS., BY: DAVID J . NOYACK, ESQ., Attorneys fo* the Defendant, Johns-Uanvllle Corp. SCHWARTZ ft ANDOLINO, ESQS., BY CONSTANCE G. ILARDI, ESQ., Attorneys for the Defendant, Eagle Picher Industries, Inc, LAMB, HUTCHINSON, CHAPPELL, RYAN ft HARTUNG, ESQS., BYi BARBARA SCHWAB, ESQ., Attorneys fo r (be Defendant, Celotex. 1 / 17 18 19 20 *! 21 t 22 23 24 25 Witness INDEX Herman Lee Huelster D irect by Mr. G rayed -- g?g.e. S Number PH-1 PH-2 PH-3 exhibits Description T ranscript dated January 29, 1980 Transcript dated July 25, 1978 Answers to In terro g ato ries Por T T) 3 3 3  *5.-. 1 (Transcript dated January 29, 1980 is 2 marked PH-1 for id e n tific a tio n .) 3 4 r 5 6 (Transcript dated July 25, 1978 Is marked PH-2 fo r id e n tific a tio n .) ~ (Answers to In terro g ato ries are marked PH-3 for id e n tific a tio n .) 7 H E R M A N L E E H D E L S T E R , having been duly sworn 8 according to law, te s tif ie s as follows: 9 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. G0RAIZEL: 10 Q Mr. H uelster, my name is Grayzel. I repre PtN(M CO.. UTONOt. _. ofOOl POM 11 sent Helen Zsamba in a lawsuit which has been file d against 12 your former employer and several other companies. rT am going 13 to ask you some questions today which I hope w ill give me 14 some information about th is case. I am going to assume th a t -y- 15 |.i^ro* 7our own experience and from what your attorney told 16 you that you are fam iliar with the proceeding calH d a " 17 deposition. A ll I want to say to you-is-that i f for some iJa#r 18 reason I haven't made ay questions c le a r, make sure that I 19 do so. Everything that you and I say is going to be taken ' 20 down, so i t i s r e a lly important th a t we understand each other HI , c Do you have any questions about what we;**e going to -22 ;ito h--e. re today? 3*^ " ' __ *. 23 No, S ir. - - ;-24 ^ w- 25 A Q Where do you presently liv e , s ir ? . " ' At H untsville, Missouri -- Arkansas. I 'm o rig in ally tueAater - d ir e c t -r 1 fron M issouri. 2 Q 3 Arkansas? How long have you lived at that address in 4 Just three years. S Q And before that you were living in Missouri 6 Joplin. 7 8A 9 Q How long bad you lived in Joplin, Missouri? Three years. Q What is your date of b irth ? 10 July the 4th, 1908. 11 ---------- sow, a t some point in tin e I assume you 12 went to work fo r Eagle Picber. Is th a t eorreot? 13 A That is correct. 14 Q And what year was that? IS October 19, 1942. r 16 Q And you continued to work for them up^antll 17 your retirem ent, s ir ? 18 A That is correct. st 19 Q What was the date of your retirem ent? 20 A December 19, 1971. 21 Q And between October o f 1942 and December 22 of 1971, were you continuously employed rby Eagle Picher? 23 A I was. _ 24 Q Now, during the e n tire period of your employment with Eagle Picher, were you working for them in Muet*ter ~ d irect 1 the S tate of M issouri? 2A Tes. 3 Q Mo, prior to cOuiencing work with Bagle 4 Ploher, whar as your background? When I say "background," S I an re fe rrin g to your education and ork experience. 6A My background is engineering. 7 Q You received a -- or you studied education 8 you studied engineering formally? 9A I did, * 10 Q Where as that? 11 A WashingtonU niversity and Bankin Schools of Trade, 12 both St* Louis. 13 Q 14 those schools? .Did you receive a degree from e ith e r of 15 A neither one. , 16 Q What ~type= of engineering did you study a t 17 those two in s titu tio n s ? - 'fw . 18 A Washington U niversity, M.E.; Rankin, E.E. 19 Q And as a layman, oud I be correct in 20 assuming th a t that means mechanical engineering and e le c tric s . 21 engineering? 22 A Correct. ______ 23 Q - Mow, did.you hold any positions with anyone 24 p rio r to working fo r Eagle Plober and during or a f te r your 25 education? z ^ Vvr*?-3f<||-rmexster - d ire c t 6 Yes. V 2 Q And with whom? 3^ Continental Baking Company. 4 Q 5 Baking Company? When did you go to work for Continental 6A 1930 I think i t was. 7 Q 8 Baking Company? How long did you stay with Continental 9A U ntil October of *42. 10 Q What type of a position did you hold with 11 Continental Baiting? 04 IM4 T *IMN0AV mau 12 A Regional engineer. 13 Q What type of business was Continental s* 14 Baking in when you were with them?" *" 15 A ; Baking bread, cakes. 16 Q 17 foodstuffs? Did you supervise th e ir production of these - 18 A _ _ o , s i r . ** - 19 Q What did you do fo r them? 20 A Designed and maintained buildings and equipment. 21 Q 22 plant? la s your work associated with one particular 23 A Four plants in S tf;fiouis, Missouri. ,, 24 Q Now, during the years that you were respon 25 s ib le for designing and maintaining th is equipment, did you S m ls te r -v d ire e t %.* - ,, "i;V_ ' 7 1 bave^any dealings or experience with tberaal insulation 2 products? 43 3A I did. 4 Q Would you explain to se what type of 5 experience you bad or dealings you had with these types of 6 products? 7 ,A A maintenance program was s e t up by the Maintenance 8 O ffice which was in New York, and they had, sore or le ss , 9 a bible by whioh a l l maintenance and construction was designep 10 around. I t included the In sulation of steam pipes with NNUIeHSA4TNNC, 4N,TMl roesN4I 11 eighty-five percent magnesia. 12 Q What types of equipment were there in the 13 p lan ts other than the steam pipes you have already mentioned 14 th at had to be insulated while you were working fo r Continental *- V _ _' . 15 Baking? 16 A `'^ S ^ ^ ^ ^ -o v e R S , steam b o ile r s ,b e a tin g v essels, beat 17' exchangers. ... '**5*' 18 ^ T* sr Q Any Others? '?* '. . . ... ' 19 A T h at's p retty much the sum and substance. 20 Q Now, when you designed^equipment, did you 21 a c tu ally sake up sp ecificatio n s or Include designs for the 22 inclusion of in su latio n m aterials on any of the.equipment - ? - 23 24 you designed? A Yes. - - Insulation could be included in the design. 25 Q And, of course, as someone who is supervising -***' - 'T-t--t Ettlatr - d ir e c t 8 1 maintenance, you also were Involved 1th supervising the 2 in s ta lla tio n of insulation m aterials on the equipment you 3 mentioned? " 4A Yes, S Q Did Continental Baking Company employ 6 in su lato rs or pipe laggers on i t s company payroll? 7A Only through contracting. 8 Q So, in other vords, the individuals ho 9 did the a ctu al insulation work for Continental Baking Company 10 ere not th e ir own workers; they were outside employees? 11 A Not necessarily, depending upon the type of m aterial 12 or type of construction. 13 Q What type of construction went on a t 14 Continental Baking wherein you would use your own employees IS to do in su latin g work? - ,1 16 A ' Mostly maintenance and repairT" 17 ' rWould you describe fo r me 18 maintenance and re p a ir work these in su la to rs did? 19 A sk That would be..in an extending of high temperature 20 pipes such as steam pipes or o il lin es and applying in su la 21 tion on those, the maintenance people would do th a t, or in 22 the case of moving a lin e aft a pipe, which would have to be 23 taken down and replaced in -a d iffe re n t position and then 24 rein su lated . ;: . -vt - 25 Q Were you responsible fo r ordering and .. t ^ d e le ter - d irect..: . - -- ;;V: ; `J. > -v .'.-'9 ! purchasing the insulation products that these men would use 2 on your work force who did th is maintenance work? 3A 4 Yes. Q . Do you re c a ll generally what types of S insulation m aterials Continental Baking Company used for 6 these maintenance tasks? 7 A. 8 Their recommendation was 85 percent magnesia.. Q Was 85 percent magnesia a trade name, a 9 generic name? What are you re fe rrin g to? 10 A I t is a composition of asbestos and other ingredienti 11 prim arily sold by a couple of the major asbestos producers. 12 - Q And who were those producers while you 13 were working fo r Continental Baking? i". 14 A . C ontinental's specifications called for purchase ' . . 4- IS from J.M ., Johns-llanville. 16 - _- ,, Q x Did Continental Baking use any insulati^on .. 17. products oanufactureSl Tay Eagle Picher? 7 - 18 A - S r Come again? 19 Q Did Continental Baking use any insulation 20 products manufactured by Eagle Picher? 21 A Not while I was with them. 22 Q So, prim arily, while you were with them, the; 23 used Johns-4fanville products? ;; ;; A That is rig h t. Q Did you ever watch any of Continental 't iSttelst^r ~ d l i e c t XO 1 employees in s ta ll or apply these insulation products? 2A I most certain ly did. 3 Q Now, did you ever observe these in su la tio n 4 workers apply 85 percent magnesia to steam pipes? 5A Yes. 6 Q Would you explain to me what you observed? 7A They removed the -- these were preformed pipe 8 coverings. They removed them from cartons, stripped back 9 the cloth covering, separated the two halves and placed them 10 around the pipe, reglued the cloth and pressed i t back down 11 together. 12 Q Did you ever observe Instances where the 13 preformed 85 percent magnesia had to be cut or sawed to be 14 applied to a pipe? __ 15 A I most ce rta in ly did. . 16 Q ^^^When you observed these in su lato rs do th is 17 ',, --air: p a rtic u la r job, did you observe whether th at function A 18 en tailed the creation of any dust? 19 MR. NOYACK: I am going to object to th is 20 lin e of questioning. 1 think thfct wemay be beyond 21 the scope for purposes fo r which th is w itness has 22 23 24 25 A been produced as the rep resen tativ e-o f JBagle Picher. I would lik e my objection noted. ~ Q Do you remember the question, s ir? Would you re p e a t i t , p le a se ? . HueUter -- d irect ~ ^-- - ;>; ' Ml 1 (Whereupon, the pending question Is read 2 back by the Court Reporter.) 3A Anytime you. distu rb a s o lid m aterial which i s made ' 4 up of dust, there Is bound to be some dust, yes. 5 Q Wpuld i t be f a ir to say th at you did 6 observe that? 7A Oh, yes. 8 Q Do you re c a ll what these in su lato rs did 9 or what m aterials they used when they got to a jo in t or an 10 elbow in the jipe? Did you ever observe what m aterials they 11 used on th at occasion? 12 A Y ouare s t i l l talking about Continental Baking 13 Company? ^ 14 Q Yes. IS A We used an asbestos cement produced by Johns- 16 Manville. c : h 17 Q '=*' Canyou describe Yor me bow they applied - 18 and used th islp iaterial? ,, "w*t _ 19 A Add water to i t , made a mastic and then applied i t 20 by hand. 21 3 What would theymix i t in? 22 A Either a bucket or a trough or *.,whe*lfaorrel, 23 depending tp o n th e quantity needed a t the time. i 24 Q i How did th is asbestos cement come packaged? 25 A In bags. fiuelsttr - direct r.'i y -*4 1 , , '*i ? Ti-rr.tjfUJi 12 l Q How would the Insulators tran sfer the 2 m aterial from the bag to the pan or bucket? 3A E ither by dipping i t out by handfuls or dumping 4 tbe bag in i t s e n tire ty . S Q Does that function th at you observed 6 e n ta il the creation of any dust? 7A Again, I would lik e to s ta te that anytime you upset 8 dry m aterial, there is bound to be some dust. 9 Q Would i t *be f a ir to say that i t did create 10 dust and that you observed it ? Tl A Yes. r- 12 Q So, would i t be f a i r to say that: prior to 13 going to work fo r Eagle Picher in 1942, you were en irally 14 fam iliar with bow asbestos-containing insulation products 15 were used and applied? 16 Yes. I would lik e to put some lim itatio n s on th a t; 17 only those two^ p a rtic u la r products. - ;- 18 Q Which were? 19 A Pipe covering and the mastic th at was used on Joints, 20 Q In cid en tally , did the in su lato rs on the 21 work force a t Continental Baking Company wear any re sp ira to rs 22 or face masks when they performed th e ir Jobs? : r 23 A There w asn't employed in Continental Ju st in su lato rs 24 there were maintenance people. Ho, s i r , they did nOtwear 25 re s p ira to rs . S ielistlr direo t 13 1^ Q They did not wear any special type of 2 protective clothing? 3A No. 4 Q Nov, when you oame to work for Eagle Picber 5 in October of 1942, whaf was the proper name of the company? 6A Eagle Pioher Lead Company. 7 Q Now, did the name of the company change 8 over the years u n til your retirem ent? * 9A Yes, i t did. 10 Q Would you describe fo r me what changes 11 ocourred? -v-nunr- 12 A I don't think I can give you the exact terminology 13 nor the exact dates. 14 Q Well, b aslo ally , what I'm in terested in , IS and I re a liz e you c a n 't remember a l l the dates, is I am 16 in terested in how Eagle Picber Lead fin a lly became Eagle 17 Picher In d u stries Incorporated. -- 18 A Well, i t changed from Eagle Picher Lead Company to 19 Eagle Plcher Company. 20 Q Okay. 21 A And then i t changed to Eagle Picher Incorporated, 22 and then i t changed to the present name. : 23 Q Which is Eagle P icber-Industries Incorporat 24 A Right. I think th a t i s a matter of common record. 25 Q I'm Bure i t is "*** ' B u e ^ e * ~ d i r e c t - *. - r ^ ;_11 . 1 Do you remember approximately when your employer 2 changed i t s name to Eagle Picher In d u stries, Incorporated? 3A In the *606. I'm not sure of the date. 4 Q Would i t be f a ir to say th at a l l of the S names that you have mentioned, including Eagle Picber Lead, 6 Eagle Picber Company, Eagle Picher, Incorporated, and the 7 present name of Eagle Picher In d u stries, Incorporated is the 8 same company for a l l in ten ts and'purposes? 9A Yes. * 10 Q Now, can you give me a b rief description 11 of the nature of the business that Eagle Picher Lead was 12 involved ih when you f i r s t came to vrork for them in October 13 of 1942? 14 A They were prim arily a mining and smelting company. 15 Q Where were ith eir plants and f a c i l i t i e s 16 prim arily located a t th at 'time? 17 A " I f o s tly in what waBtermedva tr i - a ta t e d is tr i c t, 18 which is the corner of M issouri, Kansas and Oklahoma. 19 Q What types of m aterials were they involved 20 in mining and smelting? 21 A Lead and mine. 22 Q At the time th a t you f i r s t came with Eagle 23 Picber In^October of 1942, were they engaged in the manufactui 24 or sa le of insulation products? 25 A Yes. -* Suelster - direct - . . . ^5 1 Q Was there a p a rtic u la r division of Eagle 2 Picber Lead th at was responsible for manufacturing and 3 d istrib u tin g insulation products? 4A I t o rig in a lly was a department separate from what 5 is termed the Pigment Division. 6 Q Does th is department have a name? 7A 8 The Insulation Division. Q Were you employed by the Insulation 9 Division when you f i r s t oa&e with the company? 10 A I was. ' 11 Q What was your ti tle ? 12 A Engineer. ^ 13 Q Now, has Eagle Picber ever been involved 14 in the mining of asbestos fib er? 15 A 16 Not to ay knowledge. . Q : 7 Would i t be f a ir to say th at i t Jfir ^ell, strik e that. 18 ^ Jt 3r When you came to work for them in October of 1942, 19 did they have an ex istin g production f a c ility where insulatioi 20 products were manufactured? 21 A I t was a p ilo t operation. 22 Q And where was that located? ^ ~ 23 A Joplin, Missouri. 24 Q When you say "p ilo t operation," does th is 25 sig n ify that Eagle Picher was ju s t g ettin g involved in th is ; %v *fiuelster ~ t t t w t - ... ? "i$ 1 particular aapeot of th is business? 2A Yes. 3 Q Was th is p ilo t operation a part of an 4 existing facility? 5A I t was a chip o ff, as you night say, from the 6 Pignent Division. 7 Q Did they block o ff an area of the plant and 8 say that*s the Insulation Department? 9A Separated a few buildings. 10 Q Did the Insulation Departnent have i t s 11 own building? 12 A Yes. 13 Q What was the name of th at building? 14 A They had nuabers, and I'm sorry, I c a n 't re c a ll the 15 numbers. 16 w Q 17 Department. W e'll ju st refer to i t as the Ihsulalion _ Okay? 18 A 19 20 A Right. Q Was i t a large building? I t was several buildings. 21 Q I see. Do you know bow many buildings comprised the Insulation Department? A In i t s o rig in al --* Q Tes. A Possibly three. H uelster d irect . \ rT ' ' ' 17 1 Q Was theyF~W>m^ sycc-a"t-Eagle ric h er-- 2 Industries who was in overall charge of the p ilo t operation 3 in the manufacture of insulation products for Sagle Plcher 4 when you came with the company? 5A When I came with the company? 6 Q Yes. 7A Yes. 8 Q And who was that? 9A -Alton Jones, * 10 Q Wbat was your position in the hierarchy 11 of the p ilo t operation? 12 A Engineer. 13 Q How did th a t f i t in on the ladder, i f you 14 d on't mind me ashing? 15 A Designing equipment and designing operational 16 procedures.? 17 - , Q Did you havean o ffic e in any one o f these 18 p a rtic u la r buildings? : ? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Which one? , 21 A In the office building. 22 . Q Would you describe fo r me the p a rtic u la r 23 insulation products th a t Eagle Plcher was manufacturing a t the time you came with the company? A the base product was granulated mineral fib e r for rj? st H uelster - d irec t 18 bone insulation. m i a im h i m r a 'lNNOAva 2 MR. GRAYZEL: Can you read back that answer? 3 (Whereupon, the answer referred to is read 4 back by the Court R eporter.) 5 Q Were there other products? . 6I Fro that base In su latio n , we made what is termed 7 66 Insulating Cement. 8 Q Any other products? 9A I would have to re fe r back to the beginning dates, 10 but I think One-Cote was involved in th at. 11 Q Do you remember i f there were any others? 12 A They made a mineral fib e r block, also 4 a vermicu 13 l i t e cement, which 1b expanded mica. 14 Q Any others? 15 A They also produced fabricated blankets from mineral 16 f ib e r , which is mineral fib e r with cardboard cloth or metal 17 fa b ric . - ^ 18 Q Any other products? 19 A That covers i t p retty much, I think, a t that p a r ti 20 cular time. 21 Q Back in th is time frame, was there any 22 sp e c ific fie ld of engineering that specialized orthat c 23 involved i t s e l f esp ecially with the manufacture of in su latio n 24 products? 25 A I d o n 't quite understand your terminology. uhu JL -~dl*Ct .. .; ' ^ - . . ._*>rv , . - ;. lg -. 1* Q Did the engineers who worked in the manu 2 factu re and d istrib u tio n of insulation products, to your 3 knowledge, come from any p a rtic u la r fie ld of engineering 4 when you sta rte d in the business? 5A We had ceramic engineers in the development of the 6 products, yes. 7 Q When you s ta rte d with Eagle Picher in th is 8 | p ilo t operation, did they have a Research and Development 9 II Department th a t was working on the development of these 10 II products? - '* < OHM. KJ. H I . r a w | H | 11 U Not per se. They did have two individuals th at 12 II worked to improve wbat products * e were making and develop 13 others. 14 15 16 17 || A <a&t 18 Q Do you remember who they were? One was Floyd G. Reed. Q ind the other, 4f youremember? The name Houlman s tic k s in my wiind. Q Houlman? _ j| A 20 Houlman, Q H -- 21 ]| A K22 O-u-1-m-e-n. Q Do you remember what Mr. Reed's background ^ I was? Was he an engineer? 4 fl A I think he was a graduate of Rolla School of Mines. 25 I'm not sure. --*%- H e e ls t e r * d l r e c t *0 *"* r V .-X* * i- : .'..y ?-% '%- 1 Q You d on't know If be v ts an engineer or 2 not? 3A I do not. ^ 4 Q Horw about Houlman? 5A He eras a graduate of Rolla in metallurgy. 6 W Nov, you nave mentioned a number ot d if f e r 7 ent products th at Ragle Piober as engaged in making in the 8 Insulation business. Do you remember ben you came ith the 9 company bother any of these1products used asbestos? 10 A 11 Yes. / . - - *' ~ ' .=**- - . Q - Did the granulated mineral fib e r fo r home 12 insulation contain asbestos? 13 No ay. 14 15 A 16 Q ^ It didn't? -- *- No ay. arr *e.v" ^ _ MR. NOVAGK: Gan X have that anser, please M ; (Whereupon# answer referred to is read 18 .back by th e Court R eporter.) ~ 19 Q Ho about the 66 Insulating Cement? 20 I t did contain a sm all {percentage of asbestos. 21 Q Ho about One-Cote? 22 At that particular time, no. T - . . -'"fc - X ` *'.--- - *'-r - 23 Q - .. At some point in time i t did c o n ta in a sb e st 24 I t did. - . ; - 25 Q Do you remember the time frame? Ju st u u e is te r.-u ix e c t approximately, a i r ,' , . 21 1 . A 1960. Q How about ain e ra l fib e r block? A Ho, pone. Q V erniculite cement? A Yes. Q And tbe fabricated blankets? A Hone. Q I notice-when I asked you about whether or not tbe borne insulation contained i t , you were kind of ada mant about tbe fa c t th at i t d id n 't. , A That's rig h t. Q Here you involved in some type of a decision * to exclude i t or was i t ever considered? A I t was never considered. Q Between tbe time you sta rte d working for B^gle Picber u n til your retirem ent, did tbe product 66- In su latin g Cement b asica lly remain tbe same product? ' A When you use tbe terminology of "basically the same" Q question. Let me break th at down. T hat's an unfair A I would prefer i f you would. Q designed for? For what purpose was 66 Insulating Cement - A To be used as an in su la tin g cement for pipe jo in ts , p u elster - d ir e c t ...... . . . , -, such as elbows, T*s, unions. 2 Q 3 ture range? Was i t designed for any particu lar tempera 4A Tea. . 5 Q -Jfbat was that? 6A A thousand degrees plus. 7 Q Now, you mentioned that the product did 8 contain a small amount of asbestos. Xs that correct? 9A Tbat*s correct, ` 10 Q Do you know approximately what the percents 11 of asbestos was i n i t i a l l y when you came with the company? 12 ft I believe the records show 2 percent. 13 Q Do you know what type of asbestos was used 14 in th is p a rtic u la r product? " - 15 A 16 Yes, i t was termed as asbestos shorts. Q Shorts? . 17 A Yes, not lik e the-ones you wear. X might add, too, 18 that the number or the terminology used by the asbestos 19 industry was 7M, 20 Q When I say the p a rtic u la r type of asbestos, 21 I mean, are you fam iliar with the d iffe re n t kinds of asbestos there were a t the time? I Not a t th at p a rtic u la r time, no, s i r . Q Did you Subsequently become aware of the different types of asbestos? Haelater - direct _ - 3 1A Some v aria tio n s inasbestos. , 2 Q Do you know what the names were? Do you 3 remember them? a 4A Amazon fib e r, and there were some other samples 5 that were used in research work. 6 Q Do you know what type was used in 66 7 Insulating Cement? 8A 7M only. 9 Q Do you remember e s s e n tia lly what the other 10 ingredients were in 66 Insulating Cement7 11 A Mineral fib er. 12 Q What does mineral fib e r mean? 13 A I t is made of slag s, leadb la st furnace slag s, 14 common clay. 15 Q Any diatomaoeous earth? 16 A No. 17 What other types of ingredients did 66 18 Insulating Cement have? 19 A Bentonite clay. 20 Q Bentonite? 21 A Tea. There was a soap solution in a powdered form 22 and sodium n i t r i t e as a corrosive r e s is ta n t. 23 Q Anything e lse you can remember? 24 A I think th at covers them a l l ; asbestos. 25 Q Now, do you remember in what q u an tities flue Is ter -- d ir e o t _ 24 1 your company sold the product? 2A Tiat I have no records of. 3 Q How was i t packaged, do you reaember? 4A I t was packaged in sample bags of five pounds, 5 twenty-five pound bags and f i f t y pound bags. 6 Q In burlap bag m aterial? 7A No, they were k r a f t . paper. 8 Q Did the produot contain a label of any 9 kind when i t was shipped out from the plant? 10 A The logo of the Eagle Plcher Company plus th eir 11 name, mixing in stru c tio n s. 12 Q From the time th at you began with the 13 company u n til you r e tire d , did your company make 66 Insulatiji 14 Cement? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And during the e n tire time of your employ- w_-- ~ ' 17 ment with the company, was its designed purpose for th e .use., 18 of in su latin g pipe jo in ts? ~-- 19 A And also for insulating vessels or block insulation 20 or blankets or any other type of in su latio n . 21 Q V eil, 66 Insulating Cement wsb mot a 22 fin ish in g cement, was i t ? ,, . 23 A I t was not. _ 24 Q B it i t s t i l l would have been used over blocJ 25 m aterials? '^(Krister ~ d irect -r *. t 35 1A yea. When I say "yes," I mean i t could be and i t 2 had bees. 3 Q Would i t be f a ir to say that the designed 4 purpose of the product remained the same from the time you 5 came with the company u n til you re tire d ? 6A Yes. 7 Q Now, other than asbestos, did the ingredi 8 ents in 66 Insulating Cement remain e sse n tia lly the same 9 during your employment with Eagle Picher? 10 i There were some v aria tio n s. 11 Q Were there any of the p articu lar ingredient 12 other than asbestos th at were ever elim inated from the 13 product that you can re c a ll? 14 A Not in the iteriinology of the ingredients. The IS ingredients were upgraded In a sense or purchased from other 16 su p p lie rs, but the base ingredients remained the same. 17 Q Now, did 66 Insu latin g Cement always contali 18 asbestos while you were with Eagle Picher? 19 A Up u n til -- yes, up u n til 1971. In 1971, we removed 20 i t . 21 Q So, would i t be b asically fa ir to say that 22 during the time that you commenced your employment with 23 Eagle Picher up u n til 1971, th at the Ingredients of the 24 product were b asically the same? 25 A With some v a ria tio n s . fih e lster ~ direct m 1 Q Did the percentage of asbestos used in 2 the product ever change between the time you sta rte d with 3 the cospany u n til 19717 4A Yes. 5 Q Do you remember whether i t increased or ^ 6 decreased or whether the type of asbestos changed? 7A The o rig in a l, as I s ta te d , was around 2 percent. 8 Then i t went up in -- up to 9 percent, 1 believe, and then 9 i t dropped back to about 3 percent, and then i t was elim inate] 10 e n tire ly . 11 Q Do you remember when i t went up to 9 percent 12 A I think that was in the '80s, without looking at 13 the documents. 14 Q Let *s take the year 1958, do you know * . IS whether a t th at p articu lar time 66 Insulating Cement would 16 have contained 9 percent asbestos? 17 f ' I t did not. 18 Q What percentage did i t contain in that year*' 19 A Somewhere between S to 3^ percent, I would assume. 20 I'm not sure. 21 Q Were there any changes in the asbestos 22 content of 66 In sulating Cement between 1958 and 1964? 23 A Yes. - 24 Q Do you remember what the changes were? 25 A I t was ju s t a gradual reduction of the percentage. Huela te r - d ir e c t ~ - , ' ;':27' ~ 1 Q Do you know what the purpose was for 2 including asbestos in the product 66 Insulating Ceaent? 3A Yes, there were two purposes. 4 Q And what were those? SA At the time 66 Insulation was designed, no insulaticn 6 th at d id n 't contain some asbestos was read ily accepted by 7 the trade. So, there was a small percentage of asbestos 8 added for th at purpose. When the Increase went up to 9 9 percent, that was to meet certain performance te s ts , Navy 10 regulations. 11 Q Have you mentioned both purposes? 12 A That was the two. ' - 13 Q S ir, do you re c a ll being deposed in January 14 of 1980 in Los Angeles, C alifornia? 7 15 A Yes. 16 Q Now, i f I may, .s ir , I 'd lik e to show you 17 what has been marked PH-1, which is a tra n sc rip t of th a tc h 18 deposition, and I 'd lik e to show you some testimony th at I 19 believe you gave on Page 49% 20 MR. NOYACKt Can you t e l l us what case? 21 MR. GRAYZXL: This is in the oase of 22 S t. Jacque vs. Johns"ManviJ.Is, e t a l . . and i t is 23 dooketed in the County of Los Angeles, Superior 24 Court of the State of C alifornia. - 25 Q I 'd lik e to show you Page 49 of th at vfcuelster -"direct : 28 1 tra n sc rip t and I 'd lik e to read a Question and an answer, 2 and I 'd lik e to ask you i f that was accurate. 33 Wbiob one? ' 4 Q Tbe question reads: "What was tbe purpose 5 of tbe asbestos fib e r? ", and re fe rrin g back to Page 48, 6 they are re fe rrin g to Super 66 Cement. Is that correct? 7 We're looking a t Line 25 where i t s ta te s , "In 1942 when you 8 came with the company, Super 66 was being manufactured, is 9 that correct?" Your answer'was, "Yes, s i r . " 10 A Yes. . 11 Q And on Page 49 or on Line 1, i t says, 12 "And i t was used as an in su la tin g cement. 13 You answered, "Yes, s i r . " Is that correct?" ` 14 Is that correct? 15 A That's rig h t. 16 Q Now,-further down on tbe page where we 17 -a ... were re fe rrin g before on Line 19, you were asked,r^What 18 purpose did the asbestos fib e r serve In Super 66 Insulating 19 Cement in 1942?" 20 A Yes, s ir . 21 Q And the answer given was, "As a B ales 22 gimmick." 23 A That JLb co rrect. 24 25 A Q That was your testimony then? That was my testimony then. -Huelater ^ d ir e c t 29 -T-- .'Ttfr 1 Q And is that your testimony now? 2A As I explained a minute ago, 3 Q Would'you explain to me exaotly what you 4 meant by the phrase "a sales gimmick"? 5A I think I clarifie d that in the question before;^ 6 that i t was not acceptable to the trade without asbestos in 7 it. 8 C Would i t be f a i r to say that your company 9 did not consider i t to be an e s s e n tia l Ingredient for the 10 performance of the product? ' , 11 A That is correct. . 12 3 Would i t be f a ir to say that your company 13 was not e n tire ly pleased with the fa c t that i t had to include 14 asbestos in the product? 15 A a5 ^Jas alway been the opinion. 16 i When you came with the company, do you 17 remember any discussions about whether or not asbestos 1* j*m - 18 should be included in the product Super 60? 19 A That was a general discussion in most of the s ta f f 20 meetings. 21 22 A Q I did. And you attended such s ta f f meetings? 3 9 And did you p a rtic ip a te in any conversat 24 or discussions about whether or not asbestos should.be Include 25 in the product 66 Insulating Cement? HueIs te r - d ire c t" * 1A I did. ~ 30 s Q A t any of these meetings, were any a lte rn a s tives discussed to the inclusion of asbestos in this product? 4A Yes. S Q What a lte rn a tiv e s were discussed? 6 Educating the public th at i t was not needed. When 7 I say "public,** I mean the customers. 8 Q Let me c la rify my question. When I say . 9 "alternatives,*' I am re fe rrin g to was there any discussion 10 a lte rn a tiv e ingredients that could have been used in lieu 11 of asbestos? ' ' 12 13 yes. . 14 15 They were questions th a t came up during discussions, * Q What type of a lte rn a tiv e ingredients were 16 Improvement of fib e r, mineral fib e r. 17 Q Any others? V`- l 18 i Improving the c h a ra c te ris tic s of the completed 19 sement as to performance. 20 Q Any others? 21 Tfca t ' s about i t . 22 Q In these meetings that you had, these s ta f f 23 eetings that you ju s t described, was i t the consensus of th e 24 eople present that i t was fe a sib le to manufacture an e f f lc ie j 25 roduct without the use of asbestos, and I'm re fe rrin g to the b*-T fluelater - d irect 4 - 1 66 Insulating Cernent? rii' 31 2 MS. ILARDI: I an going to object to that 3 because the word "feasib le" in that question is a 4 l i t t l e unclear. What do you mean by "feasible"? 5 6A * Q You can answer the question. Would you repeat it? 7 8 9A (Whereupon, the pending question is read back by the Court R eporter.) The best way I can answer* that would be that there 10 were experiments made to elim inate asbestos. ii 11 * Q Who conducted those experiments? 12 A That would have been the Product and Process Develop 13 ment gentlemen, which Included Plpyd Reed and Ed Houlman and 14 other employees. 15 Q Are you fam iliar with the nature of the s 16 experiments th at they bonducted? ~ 17 A Some of them, not in th e ir e n tire ty . 18 Q Did the gentlemen who conducted these 19 experiments ever discuss them with you or make a presentation 20 about them to you? 21 i A Ob, yes, we discussed i t a t times. 22 Q Did they discuss the re s u lts of th e ir 23 ' * experiments when you were present? 24 A Sometimes. 25 Q Do you re c a ll what the substance of the H u elster - d ir e c t . r -j - . ^2 1 discussions vara conoerning^tbe results of those experiments? 2A Only In the a b ility to meet certain performance 3 tests, 3 4 Q Do you know i f any te s ts vara conducted 5 to determine whether or not i t was feasib le to manufacture 6 68 Insulating Cement without asbestos fib er? 7A Yes, I think I covered th a t, d id n 't we in the previoj 8 questions? 9 Q I t might "be my shortcoming, but I want to 10 be clear on i t . 11 Were the re s u lts of those experiments th a t i t could 12 be manufactured without asbestos? 13 A With the exception of certain performance te s ts , 14 as I stated before. 15 Q L e t's put aside the performance te s t for 16 a second. Aside from meeting performance te s ts --*s trik e 17 th a t. * ; . ; 18 These performance te s ts were not your te s ts , were 19 they. Eagle Picber te sts? 20 ft That is correct. 21 Q Aside from these outside performance te s ts , 22 th a t you had to comply with was i t the consensus of your 23 company th at I t could manufacture 66 Insulating Cement withou : 24 asbestos and s t i l l meet performance standards? 25 A Y ou'll have to define the terminology of ft H u elster - <Jire*ct x~ 1 standards." 2 Q That is f a ir . Let me revise the question. 3 Was i t the consensus of your company that i t could 4 manufacture 66 Insulating Cement to meet i t s own performance 5 expectations without asbestos? 6A The manufacture of 66 Cement without asbestos would 7 meet our Insulating standards. . 8 Q And was th is true throughout the period of 9 tin e from 1942 u n til 1971? ' 10 A As an in su latin g m aterial, asbestos contributed 11 nothing to i t . 12 Q Mow, your company did u tiliz e raw asbestos 13 fib e r in the manufacture of 66 Insulating Cement between 14 1942 and 1970. Is that correct? 15 A 71! asbestos, yes. 5 16 Q Do you know where your company purchased 17 th is raw asbestos fib e r from? 18 A The exact companies would have to"1)e gotten from the 19 records. My reco llectio n would be Canadian Asbestos, OAF, 20 Buberold. Now, i t was a d iffe re n t name p rior to la te r years; 21 and small percentages or small bags of sample m aterial from 22 other companies which I couldn't re c a ll a t th is time. 23 Q I 'd lik e to read you an answer 4o an 24 Interrogatory given by your company and ask you i f i t refresh^ 25 pour reco llectio n as to where the raw fib er came from. The  u elsttr - direct - . --- 34 1 answer Is Carey Canadian Mines, L td ., P h illip Carey Corpora 2 tio n , and GAP Corporation. For the record, I am referrin g 3 to Interrogatory No. 17. 4 Do those companies rin g any b e lls for you? S4 Yes, th ey 're fam iliar names. 6 Q And would i t be your recollection now that 7 these were the companies that supplied raw asbestos fiber? 8A From time to time, I would say yes. 9 Q I assume th a t somehow th is raw asbestos 10 fib e r was shipped into your plant. Is that correct? ll A That is correct. 12 Q In cid en tally , a t some point in time did 13 Eagle Picher make a decision th a t i t was now in the insulatio: 14 business and th at i t no longer needed a p ilo t program? 15 I I d on't think there was any decision per se. 16 Q Do you know when in time i t ceased being 17 a p ilo t project and 4nst became a reg u lar p art of the company 18 business? 19 \ I think that was in 1939, '40, somewhere in there 20 th at i t separated from the Pigment Division and established 21 a division of i t s own. 22 Q And th is , of course, was the division th at 23 you were f i r s t employed with? 24 A 25 Right. Q Between 1942 u n til your retirem ent, did the Hue I s te r "direc t 7 - 35 ] Insulation Division remain in Joplin, Missouri? 2A Mo. 3 Q Would you give me a history of the expan- 4 slon or alteratio n or modification of the f a c ilitie s of the S Insulation Division u tilis e d between 1942 u n til 1970? 6A The main Manufacturing plant remained in Joplin, 7 Missouri. In 1943, I think i t was, we purchased a mineral 8 fib e r plant In Wabash, Indiana. 9 , < Q Who did ybu purchase th at from, do you 10 remember? 11 Stewart M iller was the manager. I*m sorry, I don't 12 3 Q Were there any other plants? 14 In the la te or middle '50s, we obtained a plant in 15 Sousatonic, Massachusetts. 16 v- MR. NOYACK: Can I have th at name again, 17 . vplease? 18 TOE WITNESS: Housatonic, music centiT 'of^ 19 Massachusetts. 20 Q your company ever operate a f a c i lit y 21 the production of in su latio n m aterials in Mew Jersey? 22 Yes. 23 Q Where? 24 In the early *30s. 25 Q Do you know where in Mew Jersey? Buelster - direst ' " 38 ]^ No. T hat's beyond my tin e , before my time. 2 Q That plant was not in operation when you -a 3 came with Eagle Picber in 1942? - 4A I t was not. 5 Q Now, these two plants th at you mentioned, 6 Indiana and Massachusetts, were they ever engaged in the 7 manufacture of thermal insulation products? 8A Yes. 9 Q Now, what I fm try in g to ascertain from you 10 in th is question that I am trying to compose is : Was there 11 t difference between the d iffe re n t products th at the d iffe re n t 12 plants manufactured? 13 A Yes. 14 Q What were those differences? 15 A 16 The difference was in the composition of the mineral 17 Q Did the plants in Indiana and Massachusetts a- - ' - - 18 manufacture 66 Insulating Cement? 19 No. 20 Q Did the plants in Massachusetts or Indiana 21 manufacture One-Cote Cement? 22 No. 23 Q Did the plants in Massachusetts or Indiana 24 manufacture a pipe covering m aterial? 25 No. : n-u_e-J L s t-e----r d irve c t ; - r 37 Q So, would I t be f a ir to nay that between 2 1942 u n til 1970, the Insulating cements and pipe covering i m aterial were manufactured in Missouri? i* Only. . Q Now, you mentioned that when you f i r s t came to the plant in Missouri, that there were perhaps three d if 7 feren t buildings used to manufacture these products. Is fi that correct? 9 Tes. 10 Q Did that change over time? 11 Tea. 12 Q 13 Division? Were new f a c i l i t i e s b u ilt for the Inaulatio 14 1 New f a c i l i t i e s and additional buildings. 15 16 Q It aid. Did i t remain on the same aoreage of land? 17 Q r Do you remember when the f i r s t changes in 18 'h buildings and stru c tu re s began in the Insulation Division 19 1 In the tia e frame th a t I was with the company? 20 Q Tes. 21 Beginning 1942. 22 Q Did you p a rtic ip a te in the design of the 23 uildings and equipment which eventually housed the manu- 24 actaring f a c i l i t i e s for the in su latin g cements and pipe 25 overing? ~'- ----T. ^U&^ster d ire c t ... - \ ... . -- - * -x , 1 IA That's what I was1hired fo r. . .. . . . - . - -- 2 Q How many new stru ctu re s were b u ilt to house 3 these f a c i l i t i e s over time? Quite a few, I would assume. A^ Tes, a number of `-them. To actu ally l i s t them, I 5 would have to go back to the company*plans and sp ecificatio n s 6 I 'm sorry. 7 Q Rather than do th a t, was there a p articu lar 8 I concept or design th at your company employed for these pro 9 duction f a c i l i t i e s of Insulating cements and pipe covering 10 m aterials? rCNiA CO.. BATONNC, HJ. m t . fOftH 11 A When you s ta te " p a rtic u la r," they Would have 12 reference^ to the manufacture of the products, yes. ~ 13 Q Would Tt be f a ir to say th at the fa c ilitie s 14 tused *nd ithe production techniques used fo r BS^Insulating 'iir 15 Cement remained b asically the same between 1942 and 1970? 16 , Tes, they did. .SOL. 'Sr -s r J ' 17 - Q - Would th a t be true fo r One-Cot< the 18 pipe ce*eri*g^nater ia l? , 58 " r 19 A Tou'l l have to Separate the two of them because i t 20 ` had no re la tio n to each other. .'JZ*. 21 'T Q L et's go with One-Cote then. " ,' " 22 A Same f a c i l i t i e s . 23 Q Would you explain to me, i f you can, Trom 24 se ra tc h the f a c i l i t i e s used and the techniques employed to 25 manufacture 66 Insulating Cement? iwt* ;tettlatr -itiMot . . ' %i . ' . 8 9 " 1A The i a c l i l t l e e used was a concrete mixer. 2 Q Did you design th is concrete mixer yoursell? 3A No, i t as purchased. 4 Q Did you design the system that employed 5 the conerete mixer? 6A When you say "the system th at employed the concrete 7 mixer," 1 think we need some c la rific a tio n there. 8 Q L e t's stic k with the concrete mixer. 9 Describe the production for me from scratch , i f you w ill. 10 A I t is merely.a ro ta tin g drum with b affles in i t 11 th a t s t i r up the m aterial or blends i t together. 12 Q Were there any other f a c i l i t i e s Involved 13 in the production of i t other than th is concrete mixer? 14 A Scales, means of handling the m aterial, the bucket 15 elevators to handle the m aterial, bagging device. 16 Q Bow t a l l was the concrete mixer, do you 17 re c a ll? - ; 18 A ..J' think the drum was somewhere-around -f ive or six 19 foot in diameter, possibly four foot wide. 20 ' Q What type f m aterial was i t comprised o f, 21 the concrete mixer? A Steel. Q Were the various ingredients of 66 In s u la ti Cement th a t you previously described set into th is concrete mixer by some means? JiUQlBtar . . --r . - 1A By manual means. 2 Q Would th at mean an operator himself would 3 dump everything In? 4A That is correct. S Q How many operators were required*to put 6 the ingredients into the cement mixer? . 7A One. 8 Q Let me take a step back to where we were 9 before. You mentioned that* raw asbestos fib e rs were shipped 10 into the plant. Is th at correct? 11 A That is correct. 12 Q Do you know where in the plant i t was 13 shipped or where i t was stored when i t came in? 14 A In the main building f a c ility . IS Q Do you r e c a ll bow th is raw asbestos fib e r 16 came into the p lant, how i t was packaged? 17. A In boxcars, in jn te bags. 18 Q I t was not shipped in bulk? 19 A Never. 20 Q Do you remember what quantity the ju te bags 21 were, how much they weighed? 22 A The bags? 23 _Q Yes. 24 A One hundred pounds. 25 Q Was there a p articu lar shipping dock where -9' 5 HueIs te r - d ire c t 41 1 these esse into? 2A Along the railro ad siding. 3 Q Were they unloaded manually, these bags?3 4A They vere. . 5 Q What as the Job c la ss ific a tio n of employee 6 in the plant ho unloaded the ra asbestos fib er from e ith e r 7 the trucks or the boxcars? 8A The terminology used as loaders and unloaders. 9 <3 Did you ever observe these men ork? 10 A : I did. 11 MS. ILABDI: I am Ju st going to object 12 generally to th is line of questioning, notvlthstandi 13 Judge Keefe's ordering me to answer these questions 14 more sp e c ific a lly in the In terro g ato ries. I don't 15 think that hat went on with respect to the handling 16 of asbestos a t the Job in the plant is relev an t. 17 MR. GRAYZBL: We can make thalt a continuing 18 objection th at applies to a l l questions so i t is 19 noted for tr i a l. 20 MS. ILABDI: A ll rig h t. 21 Q Would they take the bags from the boxcar 22 and load them on the p a lle ts somehow? Would th at be the 23 process? _ -- 24 A That or four wheel c a rts , any means of tra n sp o rts!io 25 Q Did you ever observe -- Httdlster - d irect - 42 1A 1 should say any su itab le means of transportation. 2 Q Did you ever observe any of these ju te bags 3 breaking during the unloading process? 4A That*s a rath er hard question to answer. I don't 5 6 Q Do you re c a ll whether or not the unloading 7 process entailed dusty conditions? 8A 9 - Very l i t t l e . Q Were any of the loaders provided with 10 re sp ira to rs or face masks when they performed th is job ol 11 unloading raw fiber? 12 A Normally, they did not use re sp ira to rs. 13 Q Were there circumstances' where they would 14 te provided with them for th is job? T ' 15 A 1 might s ta le th a t they were available. - -.j- 1 16 Q - Were there circumstances under which they 17 were required to wear them when unloading raw asbestos fib er? -m 18 A No. 19 Q What I am trying to get a t la you said 20 under normal circumstances, they w ouldn't wear them. Is that 21 correct? 22 A True. 23 Q Does t hat imply th at there were circumstano 24 where they would wear them? 25 A Only i f they desired to do so individually. Huelster - d irect 43 0 Froin y o w e x p e r ie n c e in th e p la n t , a r e you aware o f any c o n d itio n s under which the workers would wear them when u n lo a d in g raw a s b e s t o s f ib e r ? A I thin k i t would be n ecessa ry to go back to a l i t t l e h isto ry to c la r ify that p articu lar question. C Okay. A As I have s ta te d before in other In te r r o g a to r ie s -- I a n o t r e f e r r i n g to le a d . I am not r e fe r r in g to any other products in the p la n t, diatom aceous e a r t h or a n y th in g . I am j u s t i n t e r e s t e d in knowing w hether 11 th e u n lo a d e r s th e m s e lv e s e v e r wore f a c e masks or r e s p i r a t o r s 12 when u n lo a d in g raw a s b e s t o s f i b e r . 13 A They did n o t, nor were th ey req u ired to . 14 Q Now, d id you e v e r a c t u a l l y g e t a c l o s e up 15 lo o k a t t h e s e b ags o f raw a s b e s t o s f i b e r ? 16 Y es. I*ve handled them. 17 Q Did th ey have any l a b e ls on them? 18 A s I s t a t e d b e f o r e , th e bags came -- th e sh ip m en ts 19 came in j u t e b a g s , and i t i s a lm o st an i m p o s s i b i l i t y to p r in t 20 on a. ,jQte b ag. Now, th e r e may have been some sta m p in g s on 21 them , but n o th in g l e g i b l e . 22 Q Do you know w h eth er or n o t t h e s e lo a d s o f 23 m a t e r ia l w ere e v e r accom pan ied by any package I n s e r t s or 24 m a t e r ia l h a n d lin g d a ta , s a f e t y s h e e t s or t h in g s o f t h a t s o r t ? 25 None th a t I r e c a l l . Huel s t e r - d ir e c t 44 1 Q Now, a t sor.e p o in t in tim e t h i s raw a s b e s to s 2 fib e r was put in to the cement m ixer. Is th a t correct? 3A That i s co rrect. 4 Q What was th e name o f th e Job c l a s s i f i c a t i o n 5 o f em ployees who did t h is Job? 6 `i I.; i s man. 7 C Did you e v e r o b s e r v e th e mix men out th e 8 raw fib e r in to th e cement? 9A Yes, I did. ` 10 q T e l l me what th e y w ould do? 11 I They would w eigh th e a sb e s to s ou t in to a c o n ta in e r , 12 a c e r t a i n amount w e ig h t , and then dump th a t c o n ta in e r i n t o 13 th e m ix er . 14 Q So, they'd a c tu a lly open the ju te bag. Is 15 t h a t c o r r e c t? 16 A Y es. 17 Q And t h e y 'd put i t i n t o a n o th e r c o n t a in e r ? 18 i 19 20 A 21 N ight. q What k in d o f a c o n ta in e r ? This was ab ig hopper. Q How much w ould th e hopper w eigh ? Was i t a 22 b ig hopper? 23 A I would saysomewhere between ten to tw enty bags. 24 You a r e a s k in g me q u e s t io n s I c a n ' t g iv e you an e x a c t answ er 25 t o . Huelater - d irect 45 1 Q You a r e d o in g f i n e . S o , th e mix man would 2 ta k e te n o r tw e n ty hags o f raw a s b e s t o s f i b e r and dump them 3 in to a hopper. Is that correct? 4A T hat's rig h t. S 6A Q Y es. Did you e v e r o b s e r v e th e mix man do th a t? 7 8A Q Did th at e n t a i l th e c r e a tio n o f dust? Very l i t t l e . 9 Q V ery l i t t l e ? Okay. What w ould happen to 10 th e hopper a f t e r i t was f i l l e d ? 11 A He rem oved th e a s b e s t o s f i b e r from th e bottom o f 12 th e h o p p er, a s I s t a t e d b e f o r e , i n t o a c o n ta in e r on a s c a l e , 13 w eig h o u t a c e r t a i n amount o f a s b e s t o s f i b e r and th en dump 14 t h a t i n t o th e m ix er . 15 Q How fa r a b o v e th e c o n ta in e r was th e hopper? 16 In o th e r w o r d s, how f a r w ould th e a s b e s t o s have to flo w to 17 g e t in t o th e c o n ta in e r ? 18 A The hopper was f i l l e d on th e second flo o r and was 19 tak en o u t on th e f i r s t f l o o r . 20 Q How w as i t tr a n s p o r te d from th e se co n d f lo o j 21 to th e f i r s t f l o o r ? 22 A The hopper e x te n d e d from th e se c o n d f l o o r down to 23 th e f i r s t f l o o r a t o p e r a t in g l e v e l . 24 Q So, the tran sp ortation of the a sb esto s 25 f i b e r from th e se c o n d f l o o r to th e f i r s t f l o o r was c lo s e d ? Buelster - direct 46 A G ravity f a l l . Q D id th e mix raen wear fa c e masks or r e s p i r a to r s when w orking w ith raw a s b e s to s fib e r ? A They w ere a v a i l a b l e . Some d id ; some d id n ' t . 5 Q Did you e v e r o b s e r v e mix mfen w ea rin g 6 r e s p ir a t o r s or fa c e masks when th ey were w orking w ith raw 7 asbestos fib er? 8A I have, yes. 9 Q Do you remember what k in d o f f a c e masks 10 or r e s p i r a t o r s th ey used? 11 i The r e s p ir a to r s , I d o n 't r e c a ll the ex a ct s p e c i f i 12 c a t i o n s , bu t th e y w ere th e same ty p e o f r e s p i r a t o r t h a t was 13 recommended by th e M is s o u r i S a f e t y Bureau fo r le a d z in c 14 o x id e s . 15 Q Do you know why th e men wore th e masks? 16 A ca rry o v er from th e Pigm ent D iv is io n . 17 Q But why w ere th e y w ea rin g them when th ey 18 upere w o rk in g w ith raw a s b e s t o s f i b e r ? 19 P e r s o n a l d e s i r e . T here was no r u l e s or r e g u la t i o n s . 20 Q D id th e mix men c o n tin u e to put th e raw 21 i s b e s t o s f i b e r in t o th e cem ent m ixer in th e same f a s h io n 22 >ver a tim e? 23 Y es. 24 Q S o, betw een 1942 u n t il 1970, the method by 25 phich th e m ix men w ould put th e f i b e r in t o th e cem ent m ixer Iluelster - direct 47 1 d id n 't cbnnge at a ll? 2A Only In the container used,o o ssib ly . 3 o By th e year 1945 -- 5'ou w ere w ork in g w ith 4 Eagle P icher a t that tim e. Is that correct? 5A Y es. 6 0 And I g u e s s w e 'r e u s in g th e tim e fram e 7 near th e end o f th e Second W orld War. 8A Y es. 9 Q Do you r e c a l l w h eth er you had e v e r beard 10 th e term " a s b e s t o s is " ? 11 A I did not. 12 Q Have you e v er heard the term " a sb e sto sis" ? 13 A Y es. 14 Q What i s your u n d e r sta n d in g o f what th a t 15 term means? 16 MS. ILARDI: I am g o in g to o b j e c t t o t h a t 17 q u e s t io n b e c a u se Mr. H u e Iste r i s n o t a m e d ic a l 18 ex p e rt. 19 MR. GRAYZEL: T h a t's why I am a s k in g fo r 20 h is understanding. 21 q What i s your u n d ersta n d in g o f what th a t 22 term im p lie s o r means? 23 A A s b e s t o s i s , in my o p in io n , i s -- or u n d e r sta n d in g 24 1 sh o u ld sa y i s i n f e c t i o n s o f th e lu n g , I n f e c t io n . 25 Q Do you have any u n d e r sta n d in g o f what th e Hue le ter - direct 48 1 c a u se o f th at is ? Has anyone ever to ld you what th a t is ? 2 MS. IL4KDI: Same o b j e c t i o n . 3 Q You can an sw er. 4A Only from some o f the r ev iew in g o f the d e p o s itio n s 5 that I have seen . * 6 Q Would i t be f a i r to say -- w e l l , okay. 7 Strike that. 8 Other than rev iew in g d e p o s itio n s , have you ever 9 heard the term " a s b e s t o s is "? 10 A Not u n til 1964 I think i t was. 11 Q By 1 9 4 5 , had you e v e r heard th e term 12 "ne umocon i o s i s '*? 13 A That was a new name to n e . I d i d n ' t g e t t h a t u n t i l 14 '6 4 o r ' '6 5 . 15 Q In 1945, had you ever heard the tern 16 " in d u s t r ia l h y g ie n e "? 17 A Y es. 18 Q What was your u n d e r sta n d in g o f what th a t 19 term meant in 1945? 20 A In d u str ia l h ygien e, in ay a ss o c ia tio n w ith i t , was 21 a departm en t in th e governm ent o f th e S t a t e o f M is s o u r i th a t 22 is s u e d p am p h lets p e r i o d i c a l l y . 23 Q L e t 's tak e a s t e p back j u s t fo r a moment. 24 Back when you worked fo r C o n t in e n t a l B a k e r ie s d e s ig n in g 25 eq u ip m en t, d o jo u remember e v e r b e in g co n cern ed w ith th e Euclster - direct 49 1 c o n tro l o f dust em ission in the m anufacturing p rocess there? 2A Yes, but I 'l l have to d efin e that only as fa r as 3 flo u r , wheat flo u r is concerned. 4 Q T e ll me what your co n cern was w ith w heat 5 flour? 6A In th e baking in d u stry , th ere i s a lo t o f flo u r 7 circu la tin g in the a ir . 8 o; And w ere you en gaged in th e d e s ig n o f 9 system s to con trol that em ission? 10 A Y es. 11 Q G iv e me an exam ple o f some o f th e sy s te m s o:? 12 d e s ig n s you in c o r p o r a te d t o c o n t r o l th a t p a r t ic u la r problem ? 13 A E n closin g c er ta in areas where flo u r bags were opened 14 and d is c h a r g e d in t o w hat i s term ed a b le n d e r . 15 Q At the tim e th at you designed th ese p a r ti 16 c u la r sy s te m s f o r t h e c o n t r o l o f th e e m is s io n o f w heat 17 f l o u r , d id you have any c o n c e r n s f o r th e h e a lt h o f th e men 18 r^ho w ere ex p o se d t o th e w heat f lo u r ? 19 * I d o n 't q u i t e u n d ersta n d what you mean by " c o n c e r n s. ' 20 Q . Did you d esign th e se system s to c o n tr o l the 21 e m is s io n s o f w heat f l o u r f o r h e a lt h r e a s o n s ? 22 A I d on 't think h ealth ever entered in to i t . I t ' s 23 th e in c o n v e n ie n c e o r -- what term do I want to u se? 24 25 A Q An an n oyan ce f a c t o r ? Annoyance f a c t o r , y e s. Thank you. huelster - direct 50 1 0 L e t's now go back \where we were back to 2 a time when you were designing systems for the manufacture 3 of Insulating cements. Vhen you designed these p articu lar 4 systems th at you were engaged in , were you concerned a t a l l 5 about the control of the emission of dust in that process? 6A Yes. 7 Q Were you concerned with the control of the 8 emission of asbestos dust in th at system? 9\ That was only a small percentage of the dust. The 10 dust we were prim arily concerned about was Portland cement 11 and bentonite clay. 12 Q Why were you concerned about those two otbe:: 13 products you ju st mentioned? 14 A Because they were extremely dusty products and they 15 were the bulk of the products used in the formulation of 16 those cements. 17 Q Were you in terested in controlling these 18 emissions to protect the health of the workers who were 19 being exposed to these substances? 20 A To elim inate an inconvenience or a disturbance 21 to the individuals, yes. 22 23 1 Q What kind of a disturbance? Healtbwise, we did not know that there was anything 24 involved. 25 O Would i t be f a ir to say that in 1945 when 51 Huelster - direct4 sterns for the manufacture of insulating you ere designing syo cements, that you ere not aawwaarree oof any. health hazards associated U h exposure to in d u strial dusts? A W f I had a background oi in d u .tria l dusts r e ie r r in j * to lead zinc oxides. - other than lead zinc oxides, ere you concerned ith the health hazards associated Uh exposure to in d u s;trria il dusts? only lor the convenience oi the individuals opera! n A in that area. r in 1945, bad you ever beard tbe tern " s ilic o s is "? & Yes. ^hen waas tthhee lfiirrast. time th at you heard the term " s ilic o s is" ? A hen I as in grade school. Q And l e t 's not take grade school, ^ bet g0 to 1945. What as your understanding oi bat the te ra " s ilic o s is " meant? , S ilic o s is is a common term in the t r i - s t a t e area because ol the bard rock mining in th at area. q bat kind o i hard rook mining as done that area? liead zinc. ,, Would you deiine tor me hat your unders an IiueIster - direct 52 1 o f the term " s i l i c o s i s " was in 1945? 2A In fectio n of the r esp ira to ry system of the individua 3 Q Did you have any in d ic a tio n o f what caused 4 that? 5A Y e s, from s i l i c a d u st, from hard rock m ining. > 6 Q In 1945 when you were d e sig n in g sy stem s 7 fo r Eagle Picher to manufacture in su la tio n products, were 8 you a t a l l concerned th a t th e exposure to any type o f du st 9 could p o te n tia lly be a h ealth hazard to workers exposed to i t 10 / Tfe made a c o n c e n tr a te d e f f o r t to c le a n th e p la n t o f 11 a s much d u st a s p o s s i b l e w h ic h , in d i r e c t r e l a t i o n , c o u ld be 12 may be h azard ou s to some i n d i v i d u a l s . 13 Q S o, would i t be f a ir to say th at in 1945, 14 from your own background and e x p e r ie n c e and k n ow led ge, you 15 th o u g h t i t w as Im p ortan t to c o n t r o l th e e m is s io n o f any 16 i n d u s t r i a l d u st? 17 A I thin k t h a t 's th e on ly l o g ic a l answer you can g iv e . 18 Q And on e o f th e r e a s o n s t h a t le d you t o be 19 c o n cern ed ab ou t c o n t r o l l i n g t h i s d u s t was a p o s s i b l e h e a lth 20 h azard to w o rk ers who w ere ex p o se d to i t . I s th a t c o r r e c t ? 21 A Could p o s s ib ly be. 22 Q At any tim e th at you were employed by 23 E a g le P ic h e r I n d u s t r i e s , w ere you p e r s o n a lly e v e r in form ed by 24 a ny o f th e s u p p l i e r s o f raw a s b e s t o s f i b e r th a t e x p o su r e to 25 t h a t p ro d u ct c o u ld be p o t e n t i a l l y h azard ou s t o w ork ers e x p o se hueister - direct 53 1 to it? 2A At any time by any employee? 3 Q Yes. 4A Not u n til 1964. 5 Q P rior to 1964, do you re c a ll any type of 6 rot ice or n o tific a tio n or communication from any of tbe 7 suppliers of raw asbestos fib e r that your company used that 8 th is s tu ff might be hazardous? 9A No, s i r , never. 10 Q In cidentally, l e t 's take the time frame 11 1945, did Eagle Picher have a Medical Department? 12 A Yes. 13 Q What did the Medical Department consist of, 14 and I am re fe rrin g s p e c ific a lly to the f a c i lit ie s in Joplin, 15 Missouri? 16 A They bad a medical doctor who was in charge of 17 examinations and took care of any accidents, minor. 18 Q Was he rig h t there at the plant? 19 A He was not a resident nor a d ire c t employee. 20 Q Did he have an o ffice a t tbe plant? 21 A They had an infirmary there, f i r s t aid room. 22 Q Did th is Medical Department or f a c ility 23 expand over a time? 24 A 25 Yes. o Did Eagle Picher ever employ a fu ll-tim e tiueieter - d ire ct 1 medical d irecto r in the '40s? 2 He was on c a ll. He was not a fu ll-tim e serviceman. 3 C This was the nan who staffed the infirmary? 4A 5 He was a doctor, medical doctor. , Q What was that d o cto r's name? 6A X don't know what his i n i t i a l s or f i r s t name -- 7 Coons, i t ' s C-o-o-n-e. 8 Q How long did Dr. Coons re ta in his asso ciatit 9 with Eagle Picher? 10 / I think i t was in the la te '40s or early '50s. 11 I am not sure. 12 Q Do you know who replaced him? 13 ft There were one or two other physicians for a short 14 period of time and then Dr. V irg il Jeans. IS How do you s p e ll th a t, do you know? 16 A J-e-e-n-e. 17 Q Is Dr. Jeans s t i l l with the company? 18 A 19 20 ft 21 He is re tire d . Q How long did he stay with the company? U ntil be re tire d . Q Which was when? 22 A I'm not sure, but I think i t was about the same 23 time I re tire d or sh o rtly th e re a fte r. 24 Q Now, when Dr. Jeans f i r s t came to work for 25 the plant, did be s ta f f the infirmary as well? Huelater - direct 55 1A No. 2 Q E x p la in to me what b i s fu n c tio n was fo r 3 the company? 4A To perform r e g u la r m e d ic a l e x a m in a tio n s fo r new 5 em p loyees, to examine exm ployees p e r io d ic a lly accord in g to 6 h is d e sir e s and sch ed u le. 7 Q 8 Plcher? Was he a f u l l - t i m e em p loyee o f E a g le 9A No, notu n til heR etired . 10 Q I don't understand. 11 A He r e t i r e d from b i s own p r o f e s s io n a s an a c t i v e 12 p h y s ic ia n and m a in ta in e d an o f f i c e in th e E a g le P ic h e r 13 f a c i l i t i e s . Now, how many y e a r s , I d o n 't know. 14 Q Has E agle P ich er ev er had an o v e r a ll 15 m e d ic a l d ir e c t o r ? 16 A Not as such in that p a rticu la r area. 17 Q Where i s E a g le P ic h e r 's co rp o ra te b ea d - 18 q u a r te r s ? 19 A Corporate headquarters? 20 Q R ight. 21 A C in c in n a ti, Ohio. 22 Q Have th ey been lo c a te d th ere s in c e 1962? 23 A S in ce 1840 som ething. 24 Q Has th e re ev er been a M edical Department 25 lo c a t e d th e r e in c h a r g e o f th e o v e r a l l h e a lt h f o r a l l th e Huelster - direct 56 1 employees? 2A Hot that I know of. 3 Q Do you know whether or not there was any 4 such department there in 1970? 5\ Not during my tenure with the company. 6 Q So, b asically , the Medical Department of 7 Eagle Picher, as far as you know, consisted of the doctor 8 in the Infirmary at the plant in Joplin, Missouri? 9 That is correct. * 10 Q When we use the term "One-Cote Cement," 11 is th at spelled C-o-t-e? 12 A Right. 13 Q And how did th at p articu lar productd iffe r 14 from 66 Insulating Cement? 15 A One-Cote is a combination product,insulating and 16 fin ish in g . 17 Q What was the designed purpose of One-Cote 18 Cement? 19 A What the name implies. 20 Q I am not very good a t what i t im plies, so 21 i f you would, would you explain i t to me? 22 A As stated before, th at 66 Cement was put on and then 23 a harder fin ish o7er the top of i t . Instead of a two-coat 24 ap p licatio n , One-Cote was designed for a one-coat application 25 to do the same job. Euelster - direct 57 1 Q Did your company m anufacture a f in is h in g 2 cement in a d d itio n to 06 I n s u la tin g Cement? 3A Over the past y e a r s, I 'd have to go back to the 4 product l i s t , but I th in k th e re was two or th ree f in is h in g 5 c em en ts. 6 Q 7 66 Cement? And th e y w ould be s o ld in c o n ju n c tio n w ith 8A 9 P rior to One-Cote. Q O ne-C ote "did n ot r e p la c e 66 I n s u la t in g 10 C em ent, th o u g h , d id i t ? 11 A No, s i r . 12 13 A Q Why w o u ld n 't th a t be th e c a s e ? as One-Cote is not q u ite/g o o d an in su la to r as 66. 14 Q Would th e r e have been in s ta n c e s th at you 15 knew o f in th e m a rk etp la ce w here 66 I n s u la t in g Cement and 16 no f i n i s h i n g cem ent would be em ployed? 17 A It has been. 18 P S o , 66 Cement co n tin u ed to be a v ia b le 19 p ro d u ct d e s p i t e th e vai l a b i l i t y o f O ne-C ote Cement? 20 A T hat's rig h t. 21 Q Was O ne-C ote e v e r u sed in c o n ju n c tio n w ith 22 66 I n s u la t i n g Cement? I t w ould seem t h a t w ould be u n n e c e ssa r y 23 w o u ld n 't i t ? 24 A I t would be but i t has been. 25 Q So, would i t he f a ir to sav th a t One-Cote Huelster - direct 58 1 Cement i s d e sig n ed both fo r in s u la t in g and f in is h in g purposes' 2A That, was the o r i g i n a l p u rp o se. 3 Q Was i t a l s o d e sig n e d fo r j o i n t s and p ip e s? 4A Y es, th at fo llo w s through from the past d is c u s s io n , 5 a one-coat ap p lica tio n . * 6 C And would i t a l s o be used to i n s u l a t e o th e r 7 types o f v e s s e ls and c o n ta in e rs? 8A 9 Anyplace where in su la tio n i s req u ired . Q Over the y e a r s , d id the in g r e d ie n ts o f 10 O ne-C ote Cement rem ain b a s i c a l l y th e sa n e? 11 A There was some ch an ges. 12 Q Why d o n ' t we go back to when you f i r s t came 13 w ith th e company, and d e s c r ib e f o r me what th e com ponents 14 o f O ne-C ote Cement w ere? 15 A One-Cote was o r ig in a lly m ineral f ib e r , cem ent, th a t 16 i s , P o r tla n d cem en t, p l a s t e r , w hich w ould be p l a s t e r o f P a r i s , 17 b e n t o n it e c l a y , r u s t i n h i b i t o r , w hich w ould be sodium n i t r i t e , 18 I 'm not s u r e , but I th in k th e r e was a s u d s in g a g e n t in t h e r e . 19 Q Did One-Cote con tain a sb esto s? 20 5 Not in i t s o r ig in a l d esig n . 21 Q Do you remember a p p r o x im a te ly what year 22 a s b e s to s was added to th e in g r e d ie n ts o f O ne-Cote Cement? 23 A In the e a r ly ' 60s. 24 Q S o, would i t be f a ir to sa y th a t between 25 1942 u n t i l th e e a r l y 1 9 6 0 s , a s b e s t o s was not an in g r e d ie n t in mielster - direct 1 One-Cote Cement? 2 A 3 4 1 think that ia <***et. The date ean be cpnfira$d Q Between 1942 when you ci si.: ' 5 mentioned b asically SAVONNC. .J. Of t Ot . FORM 10 6A With the exception o f p l a s t e r . p l a s t e r of Faria as 7 removed 1 think in the e a r i j ;g o .? .Jrhait Bhecke^ 8 too. 9 Q . ~ ' r/. Waa anotbr"Ingj^jint1^ J .:-_ii ^4 ier the 10 p la ster? , : - ' ?* : 'Vs: `wr**- - -, -- -, 11 A dditional p o r4t *l l oe d i d i i i . ^ - M_ ,,i W : *u~' V ' 12 i Q Do y" 13 any discussions or e e t i n ^ l g ^ i ^ S ^ ^ g ^ - p p ; 14 tion of asbestos to 15 A Yes 16 Q 17 early 1950s? '>v\:.jg^'ijfuj y *.. IV- Ii l - * > ;I 4is 18 Yes, 19 Q D you know r s c a l l hy i t w a s tb a t asbestos 20 -,r ' ' '*-h.s,'` X . . -- * was considered or p r o m o t d - ^ t t |L 9 i ^ ^ a t ^ ^ U - :p t j a i Qt? 21 There were two ***'' -sf-ra*\ 22 23 24 25 of i t s o rig in a l purpose for Jo in ts;o n ly , a s b i s t va added i ; ttabir two, to ie t o ortain peTora&nce te s t requij 5 7- , 33 **p*tp*- t l^ fe i ^ tB siM t-;y iS S K `x' -- ' ,. v i: `'-;*r ----smG^jzlS- 'W*-:- --^Vr-t'< .a to vbfetber orclt - ,~' / nL *' ' ` ^ Cota Cment? "'- . r -*--/*-- - asbestos ' -'- ^ jg^3*^1g z-`&i~t*p.--*i-r$ -9-v; should bave b*n added --ai - > ' " -' - . ,* -*-- ' - ' .- -' . r ;- *7" . ' ;. to One . , / ; _ Tfe ! - i i \ ./ c* p i t o n ^ j f a C t u r e ouriseiV 2 nothing to Improve. the insulating q u a litie s of the d u e t. 3 <5 fv Was I t your opinion in tbe^a?y 194Qs ... _, k ', L i " ^-pA ' * ; ^ t TuLrjgr> JWben;: fl/v/1 J:,. -nrigT '(+'..*So^iS/;'.- >-5HiJiri nothingtotthe i - t : - r v ' - ^ 'Vr overall " r W * r " ;-.i. or .o ff io io n c y io f ^ t^ o te 'T? -t Cement? When you term i t as performance, you are co rrect, >a|:*oa .... formance s p e c ific a tio n s , i t ;4- fk-v- j g r L.i B ut^aside'tron -the th a t. -:'r . ' ' -`r i s';'.r-~^;k'--' v fi*-*t~>'.-irJ*lfe JJ' *M your 7# itt& n |h a t One-Cc ' .vr. " .- ' l f ^ :.- lof/^asbestos? ? \w . : .-- . ' r -. . ,, . "| ' ' * .'114 p s j n insulating m aterial, yes., H.i'. .g . . ,, ,,r -.<"?'-'V.'v ^?. I ,-'-- .-.V. ' ^xC* + _'_1. ; 3i'l','-,1 .-six r> .V- -/ >iffccj-ijfc^'i -, T - . t would anpjpear:1troa ^ u r - d is ^ ^ io f ii^ .; .r ` iSV tht:^ycp; personall ? m pre not. .hiappy :jO>ou|^p^'. .'WY __,f ,, in^tPaKles Picher icemen ts.;Vvj g . --. . /rk'"1That Is c o rre c t. h*+>i ^ -:'3. 'v:*J-~'- ~*'-jk "1-%. . --.. \ ; . 21i - ^ 'k - - S t* Was youtr,--fpe' rspn- a-l o-pini-on s- tAi.h'a,/.... r'-eT-"d -by JplherB .V-c S. l i t5' Jlcher ..: corporate srtr^uuccttu re y? 3^v.- -^..-V- ?-,vv^ -sm ^$ n i*1-:- i k f --a1i: T-^-' k '*'* .' j ivf ^-'4.^^:"`4a^ -v w<- J- ;T: .. - s r . l- k'- -T r^v - * .'. ' *. - -Hvx\ ' ' .C/p* li'. ,;*V -i/ .( t, -- ____ r r - 'j ;;r. f a # 4 -5 xthese prod^cts vas part ia lly I^ ^ g ^ r^ ile s ? . ; , ;,: ' : " ---k-- .X . -.? , ;- i -25 -*=* ' ' E n tire ly from s a le s , I might say. anything to ib#:efficiency ;of the product,Jfhara^j^Jibia reassure::e<MUjo^'roa? .Why waa/^t the witness has te stifie d to that. - ; ^ -t? -f; ;cl| *T/1 i M8V ILABDI: I am going to object. t y .i r ^x.#**jrr^ -- ---^ 'fret ]mevrepluraie; , __ _ ^ nation | T in ^ tta e id ii ;# o | y^aiiie' ... .'if. 1 0 , a o e ffa rt to persuade the people who made these perfornanee ipft* *--. - Vg^k **--??V *v* 7* VVJP^*^yv%s-^fes*:gHsyE,a:pa=3|HhftgJ ... . ^ _____ _ . _ . y44e'I|r .. . _ _ . _ .j ^ ^ r a i # ib e r -semebt j m * rjbirt/as good as a n y e t ^ s ^ - \ K " ^ " * .:.~'r" -:-;;.;l 7rV-:'-`-!v .^/V,- r .i. _ -v '-fl . ~ 'lfir - ; -: r %-;.-{lr V r i y-sjr - :U? ^ W ^ m t v\iSKibft .W PRW!. N. -fta! ^--.-e Afe"^"<^Sgr;%._: ~rt-'r 7 S "'---- '-r " ter ' ; -* "' } ~ r,** -t sVg.- :irr*'V*c?,,".- ' -r^ y $ 0 ^ ^ i i "'. '" - -R ights7" - : . ;^ ; i '. ^ ^ ^ - --- " :m i ..-_-r- Z&Elfk. r - f. ;, i r " I a a t r y i n g to. %i say eoae torro later. - -dLt' ^k:j- G i f t ' s si'-' V Old t h i s g e n t l e i li ilo t t t 't o ou w hat i f c l f c , - * " - ' ' " - " i " - "-'- - - - " Ik sti il. -./t* Did he indcate w h y ii was lu tile ? 5.7?t _ , 1*11 s ta te what I a t a t e d i n G allfo ra la , lobbyla te . K X flr ,:,V " 10 we ware ta lk in g to. -w --PT-?U*#Y'--r~t-'^KSs3?-^'-T^--r<a^: :S&sfeia'fiReS^fSe3 iWl;j-3?' -J-r.S,*^i"T^'`-**l^*'i-=T~aari r- la--- 7 . ~.3> were tu-__- -- *- - --: .t5_': ' *,f-' 'W' - *,ff-'F*t^. -'Ir#r*::- A;'? * ^Lfflpreaaion o f !tbngs that^wer^; thoseth at -. -WS-, -*; xl: '< r *r- "= '^v~"'^TS^.v"7 .:l'T> 'h'-1rjL-;.:;"-4j l^r--V -TJll' v'-j-v t:;7 *"'- *r W 4-V:r: ??Trjr; -Tfe nTt&il*' --*l-*:V,".V**, ?-*-C. -:. .ii'ztuy ----vVf~Sit-_*T-'- ' ' /*" '.~2i^v .->: ^ T,Ta -i~jtJ>4_4i*^ii ^ IS ~ :t'\ S& & m . J:=: fesTSi; *^r? _ .. . I ' r'.''lf.ti`L, ,'j^- *'---*"**.7`fSj ^T1`^sri^-i ---i-'--,.- .S..-*T;.#.'^L -rin-:--.gtr:-^--.rii .vv^ifcY/-: cr-i ' -`t T ro n ase the coni ,7 --qf;'>;,.;ir,^;. I ' ; - ' ? '.- ! MB* , ia S S * ,; ^ s -- ' /lin e o f. roetlonliigv^b|] _ . . . . .. __ _ . ^haw^e9tabllahed^H 4^^ --3? ^ - :----1Vij- 7 ,-.J"-.*F: '--: to object to the. i f "-_-'* " th a t Tom i--~ . -y '..^r.'^rii.^ ' tlySTe-.g:--rf1'"*..*-*.-T,-e*...* .-- . -iir'irj J t >:ftajp~y^to% ; ' "* ' ' " ` '1 's'.-:*' y co a p a n y a b o u t t f a l a t e n s i o n h e tw e e n what you w an ted and w hat r**t - - i ' t i,":V'U?r -> : w M ;| S i S s T ~*gS -y --.: c,* - ' - l s. ;M i| M I r eftl3U|im talkitig t^ iie sboutsow e o f .h is :-'. S P * piinsj)';^3 r=r.;. JSS^fc'rfp- ^ '" -S*^= ^S^-.T^^>^<'^2P^-^i'3E,-s'A,-^;'v-r.--i .- ~--<tr : ]nW3fc*% - ---- a w w i ^ - ~?V- '.j S r * i l ! E k . ,. t ... fcg$$6 & A > i i' * S *. * **---- - - . ,'.' '-'4-'4r^'-- --- ` ' "-* * * * 1 -/ * _ ' :"~. I; :. V U/ J :'- '* * , ^ 1 t ^ - ~ ~ l r r - - : ' - - . , .: . ;v ..: " r^ ^ . ' ?v*-- ~ - -- -* .- - - '-^"ii^r.'*^ ' " '*--*"-- s - We received ainuies froaH IW io e tio g I d the i y * P fing o i 1964 W h ere ^ . i ^ P W *tKKi' ?>' :ft * rr ?v L *j* ,`r^ " ^ e x a c t wordlngtxf that ijtartaiagw asi^ Sia* ~- - i JC. . Q D id you see th e se a ib u te s? ir t ' ';* A X saw a copy of them. 1- - -` i".-^;*.rjQVrt'-*pLiif.t - - _ .: -* 7 -/ . 1 l-_ -jj , '' - - i. ^ ' ;'* - s : 1 " <t~ ...^ : ^ --1Tt-:~t' 7 ;.` *%layidg wba? . "t--*---- -. .^VOM5 -rrTw#Vf ? -XLY^Tv- V1.'19 ?! - . ' V i - ." as.-io why thialeS . jpeeii^aa'de to iu t-th e w araipgon the prodaets^fXi 4Y ' A ^ .'-- T_ *iv,.- ''*T ^.5 Y'^ `'t,:-Y-7*lj5 T tIC-***jL-" r - -see t i e r IHvYUYie - ' '*' . - O fr -**"T th a t i, i.^----7-S' " " `**-* -A-,, ,Tf. ___.-**k>'. fe^STr -^ - were there a q y7in te rn a l ^iscuaaions i t . gE ":`"T' J T f ; : ;r:^fW > > H uelster - d ir e c t- 67 1 the nature o f the hazard th a t was d iscu ssed in th ese m inutes? 2 /. There was some d is c u s s io n , y e s . 3 Q Did you p a r tic ip a te or were you p resen t 4 for these discu ssion s? 5A In most o f th e m eetin gs, y e s. 6 Q So, th ese were form al m eetings that were 7 condu cted a f t e r th e se m in u tes came back? 8A The term ''form al*' -- 9 Q Y es, p eop le s i t t i n g around a ta b le and 10 somebody c o n d u c tin g i t . 11 A Not in th a t se n se o f the word, no, I mean, they 12 w ere g a t h e r in g s fo r common d i s c u s s i o n . 13 Q Were th e y h e ld in som eone's o f f i c e ? 14 A U su a lly in th e p la n t m anager's o f f i c e . 15 Q Did a se c r e ta r y or an o f f ic e r o f the 16 c o r p o r a tio n ta k e m in u te s o f th e s e m e e tin g s? 17 A Only on s t a f f m eetin gs. 18 Q Were th e r e any s t a f f m eetin g s th a t occurrec 19 a f t e r t h e s e NIMA m in u te s came back to th e company c o n c e r n in g 20 t h e s e m in u te s? 21 A I'm su re th at th ere w ere, y e s. 22 Q What w ere some o f th e d is c u s s io n s th a t 23 w ere c o n d u cted c o n c e r n in g th e n a tu r e o f th e hazard th a t w as 24 b ro u g h t up by t h e s e m in u te s? 25 A You're going to have to c la r ify that a l i t t l e b it , ------ - XAAWVI. _8 1 p lease. 2 Q You g o t t h e s e m in u te s , and th e m in u tes 3 seemed to in d ic a te that Joh n a-H an vllle Is going to pat a 4 * a r n ln g on i t s a s b e s t o s p r o d u c ts , am I r ig h t ? 5 -A R ight. - 6 Q Was th e r e any d i s c u s s i o n s a s to why J o b n s - 7 M an vllle was doing th a t or what the problem was th at led the. 8 to do th at? 9 A Y es, I th in k th e r e was some d is c u s s io n a t the tim e 10 th a t th e m in u te s w ere r e c e i v e d , w h ich In c lu d e d V i r g i l J e a n s . 11 Dr. V i r g i l J e a n s . . MI MM m u T * ' 1MN0AVI "03 QVINM 12 Q Did Dr. Jeans in th ese m eetings o ffe r any 13 e x p la n a tio n from a m ed ical v iew p o in t a s ta w h a t th e problem 14 was? 15 A T here may have been some d i s c u s s i o n by him a s to 16 th e h a za rd s o f i t . 17 18 A Q What was th e s u b s ta n c e o f th e d i s c u s s i o n ? I 'm not sure. 19 Q Do you remember w h eth er or n ot he m entioned] 20 th e d i s e a s e a s b e s t o s l s ? 21 A Yes, 22 Q 23 d i s e a s e was? Did he e x p la in a t th e m eeting what the 24 A O nly th a t -- my r e c o l l e c t i o n i s th a t i t i s a d i s e a s e 25 o f th e pulm onary sy stem o f th e human b e in g . Huelater - d irect 69 1 Q Was there any discussion a t these meetings 2 ns to whether or not your products could be involved in th is 3 term "asbestosis"? 4A Being involved -- I think we can lia r if y that by 5 s ta tin g that V irg il Jeans thought we should re in sta te annual 6 X rays. 7 8A c Right. Amongst your own work force? 9 Q Did he indicate why he thought that should 10 be the case? 11 A In order to check to see whether any of the employees 12 might be affected in any way. 13 Q Did he make any recommendations concerning 14 the sale and d istrib u tio n of your asbestos-containing in su la 15 tion products? 16 A 17 s ta f f . Not d ire c tly . That was made through the r e s t of the 18 Q Did Dr. Jeans express any concern to anyone 19 about the fa c t that some of these insulation products contains 20 asbestos? 21 A I d o n 't think be did d ire c tly , only as a health 22 measure to re in s ta te X rays and check for his own information 23 of the employees that were working in and around asbestos. 24 Q In these meetings we have been discussing, 25 did any members of the corporate s ta f f express a concern that - direct 70 1 your company was s e l l i n g and d is t r ib u t in g a s b e s to s -c o n ta in in g 2 in su la tio n products? 3A The main d is c u s s io n was th a t here was a good way . 4 to g e t r id o f a sb e sto s and reduce our c o s t. 'X 5 Q Was th e r e any d is c u s s io n aboufe w hether or 6 not i t co n stitu ted a p o ssib le h ealth hazard? 7A O nly on th e r e p o r t th at we had r e c e iv e d in th e 8 m inutes, y es, s ir . 9 Q You had `been in v o lv e d in th e p ro d u ctio n 10 o f a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g i n s u l a t i o n p r o d u c ts f o r a p p r o x im a te ly 11 tw e n ty --two y e a r s by th e tim e t h e s e m in u tes came t o th e company 12 I s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 13 Y es. 14 Q Were you s u r p r is e d a t t h a t develop m en t? 15 Y es. 16 Q What was your r e a c t io n to th e s e m in u tes? 17 ft We c o u ld n 't u n d erstan d why -- i f i t was s o much IS o f a h a z a r d , why d i d n ' t we have some r e c o r d s w it h in th e p la n t th a t i t was such a h azard , and we had none. Q Was e v er y o n e in th e company s u r p r is e d a s y6.u w ere th a t you c o u ld o b s e r v e ab ou t t h e s e m in u tes? A You a r e c o v e r in g a l o t o f ground when you s a y "everyone in th e company." Q L e t's take th ese s t a f f m eetings th a t you a tten d e d . H uelster - ^direct 71 1A Those that attended the s ta f f neetings were rather 2 eurprised, yes. 3 Q Was there anyone who wasn't? 4A Not that I can re c a ll. S * Q Prior to these minutes, would i t be f a ir 6 to say that your employees were not receiving yearly X-rays? 7A I would have to go back to the medical performance 8 for the company and give you a background of bow things 9 changed. ' 10 Q Would i t be f a ir to say th at a t some point 11 in time your company was taking yearly X rays because you 12 were a lead processor or lead manufacturer? 13 A That is correct. 14 Q At some point in time did you cease taking 15 yearly X rays because of the involvement in that business? 16 A Yes, in the Insulation Division. 17 Q So, there was some point in time when you 18 company was taking yearly X rays of the men in the Insulation 19 Division? 20 A That's right. 21 Q When did th at commence? 22 A From the inception of the Insulation D ivision, which 23 was a carryover from the Pigment D ivision, as I have stated 24 before, in the corporate stru c tu re . 25 Q How long did they continue to take these HueIster - d irect 72 1 yearly X rays of the men In the Insulation Division? 2A U ntil 19 -- the la tte r part of 1943 or early '44. 3 Q Were any type of X rays taken of tbe^work 4 force in the Insulation Department between 1944 and 1964? SA On a three to five to ten year basis. 6 Q Who took those X rays? 7A They were taken by two rad io lo g ists in the City of 8 Joplin. 9 Q Did they `work under Dr. Jeans or his 10 predecessor? 11 A No, they were an independent organization. I might 12 add, too, that some of the X rays were taken in the two 13 hospitals there, too. So, there was a source of four possi 14 b i l i t i e s . 15 Q After these minutes came down from NIMA, 16 did Dr. Jeans or anyone else go back to take a look a t these 17 X rays that had been taken every three to five years of the 18 insulation employees? 19 A Dr. Jeans did look a t some of them, yes. 20 Q How do you know that? 21 A Because I was very close to Dr. Jeans and he told me, 22 Q What did he t e l l you? 23 A He said he was going to check some of the X rays 24 of those individuals who were working around that p a rtic u la r 25 operation H u e lste r - d ir e c t 73 Q Would be have been re fe rrin g to the operat and the mixers in the Insulation Department? A He was. Q And who e ls e , what other job c la ssific a tio n would have been involved? 6A The Job c la ss ific a tio n s which included the mixing 7 of cements. 8 Q Did Dr. Jeans ever indicate to you whether 9 he did, in fa c t, review these X rays? 10 A He did, yes, 11 Q Did he report the re s u lts of th is survey 12 to you personally or in a meeting? 13 A I think be called me on the phone and said he 14 couldn't find anything. 15 Q 16 anything a t a ll? Did he indicate to you whether he found 17 1 He did not find anything be said . * 18 Q __ I would assume then in 1964 be began X rays 19 gain on a yearly basis. Is that correct? 20 Tea. 21 ' Q * Of your employees in the Insulation 22 23 Tea. 24 Q Did Dr. Jeans ever discuss -- s trik e th at. 25 Did Dr. Jeans do these X rays or did the radiologist!i H uelster - d irect 74 1 In town? 2A The rad io lo g ists. 3 Q Did Dr. Jeans get involved with them, do 4 you know? 5A He only sent them up. 6 o Did these rad io lo g ists ever report th eir 7 findings to the company? 8A To Dr. Jeans. 9 C And then; of course, Dr. Jeans conveyed 10 i t to the company? 11 A 12 Right. Q Were you ever present when Dr. Jeans 13 conveyed the re s u lts of these X rays? 14 A At times. 15 Q Would you indicate to me what information 16 he rela ted to you? 17 A That be bad found nothing. 18 ' Q f At some point in time, s i r , did your 19 company make a decision to remove asbestos from 66 Cement? 20 A Completely? 21 Q Yes. 22 A 23 Yes. I Q Do you remember approximately what year 24 th at decision was -made? 25 p I t was d e fin ite ly removed in 1971 prior to my H uelster - d irect 75 1 retirement. 2 Q Do you know whether or not there were any 5- .- 3 technical problems Involved in implementing that decision 4 in terms of producing the product? 5A The term "technical" I think doesn't enter into 6 the picture. 7 Q Let me ask i t a b e tte r way then. As a 8 consequence of th is decision, did you have to make any 9 a lte ra tio n s or m odifications in the techniques you employed 10 to make th is product from 1942 u n til 1971? 11 A We made some changes in the fib e r stru ctu re of the 12 mineral fib e r to a s s is t in meeting certain performance 13 requirements. 14 Q These were perhaps then the same problems 15 you bad discussed back in the '40s when you-made the i n i t i a l 16 decision to include it? ~~ 17 A That is correct. _ 18 Q So, there was nothing neiF about the p a r ti 19 cular changes that you had to make; in other words, they bad 20 been discussed previously by your company? 21 A T hat's rig h t. 22 Q As a consequence of th is decision to remove 23 asbestos from Super 66, was there any e ffe c t on the efficiency 24 of your product? 25 A As an in su la to r, no. Huelater - d irect 76 1 Q Do you know as a consequence of th is 2 decision as to whether or not there was any effect on the 3 sales of this product? 4A i c a n 't answer that question because I don't re c a ll S what the sa le s were before and a fte r. I sig h t add there 6 d id n 't appear to be any. 7 Q Was th is decision in 1971 to remove 8 asbestos from Super 66 Cement also applied to One-Cote Cement 9A Tes, s ir . * 10 Q So, they were implemented a t the same 11 time? 12 A Yes, s i r . 13 Q As a consequence of th is decision, did you 14 have to make any changes in the production process for One- 15 Cote Cement? 16 A No, s i r . 17 Q As a consequence of th is change, was there 18 any impact bn the efficien cy of the product One-Cote Cement? 19 A As an in su la to r, no, s i r . 20 Q Do you know whether or not there was any 21 Impact on the sale of One-Cote Cement? 22 A There again, I d o n 't know. 23 Q Did there appear to be any? 24 A There d id n 't appear to be any. 25 Q In cid en tally , from a personal viewpoint, Huelater - direct . " 1 end I am re fe rrin g to you personally, dbes tb ia incident vhic.i 2 manifested it s e l f in 1964 which you described in tbe NIHA 3 minutes seem ironic to you given your past position on tbe 4 inclusion of asbestos in the product? S MS. ILARDI: I am going to objept to the 6 question because the concept of irony is hardly 7 relevant to this lawsuit. 8 Q Do you know what I mean by that? 9A I don't quite fe e l out what you are talking about. 10 Q Back in the 1940s, you, yourself did not 11 favor the inclusion of asbestos in these products. Is that 12 correct? 13 A 14 As I stated before* no, s i r . Q As a matter of fa c t, you d id n 't think i t 15 was necessary a t a l l to Include i t . Is that correct? 16 A I s t i l l stand on th a t. 17 Q And twenty years la te r , i t comes to your 18 a tte n tio n that th is s tu ff not only is useless, in your 19 opinion, but is hazardous. Is th at correct? 20 A That is co rrect. Can I make a statement off the 21 record? 22 q Maybe la te r . Did the health facto r raised 23 in these NIKA minutes play any ro le in your company's decisioi 24 to remove asbestos from O ne-C ote Cement and Super 66? 25 A D efin itely . Buelster - direct 78 1 Q What ro le did i t play? 2 The removal of i t . 3 Q In other words, the health issues raised 4 in the NIMA minutes were the basis for your company's decisio 5 to remove asbestos from these products? 6A D efinitely. 7 Q Was there any reason why there was a seven- 8 year in te rv a l between the appearance of these minutes and 9 the decision to remove the'asbestos from the product? 10 A Again, i t comes back to that performance te s t in 11 which we had sales fo r. 12 MB. NOVACK: Would you please read back 13 that la s t answer? 14 (Whereupon, the answer referred to is read 15 back by the Court Reporter.) 16 P Did your company ever manufacture any 17 products containing diatomaceous earth? 18 A Yes. 19 Q 20 a few? Was i t a great number of products or ju s t . 21 Can I re fe r back to our products l i s t ? 22 Q Sure, i f you'd like to. 23 MS. ILARDI: The record should show that 24 Mr. Buelster is re fe rrin g to a l i s t that has been 25 supplied to Mr. Grayzel as Exhibit 2 to Eagle Picber lluolster - direct 7 9 1 .*>new ers to I n t e r r o g a t o r i e s . 2\ There wan d in to m a ceo n s e a r t l used in One-Cote a t one 3 t im e , a c c o r d in g to tM a l i s t i n g , p 7.ro the 5Tig> (phonet 4 Cement and diatoraaoeous e a r th was a l s o used in p f i n i s h in g S cement c a l l e d 99. I th in k th a t was th e sum and s u b s ta n c e . 6 Did your company m anufacture produ cts which 7 c o n ta in e d d j.a tom accnne e a r th betw een 7.94? and to your 8 retirement0 91 Fe did not have diatom aceons earth a v a ila b le in 1942, 10 That p la n t w a s n 't a c q u ir e d u n t i l 1944, I t h in k , '4 5 . 11 0 At any tim e betw een 1945 u n t i l 1 9 6 4 , d id 12 your company e v e r p la c e any h e a lt h w a rn in g s on any o f th e 13 p r o d u c ts your company m anu factu red w hich c o n ta in e d d iatom aceoi 14 e a r th ? 15 A No. 16 0 Between 1942 and 1964, d id your company 17 m an u factu re any a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g i n s u l a t i o n p r o d u c ts w hich 18 w ere a c t u a l l y m arketed by o th e r com oan ies? 19 A Y es. 20 Q 21 fo r ? Do you r e c a l l w h ich com p anies you d id t h i s 22 A T h ey 're on th e product l i s t i n g which has been su b 23 m it t e d , J b e l i e v e . 24 Q lb you have a o e r s o n a l r e c o l l e c t i o n o f who 25 your company d id t h i s fo r ? ]iuc l s t e r - d ir e c t , /i few o f th e names. vi'.o were they? * P. Green, O ,,n n -O om i:r, 80 n ,.rcA rm stro n g C o r p o r a tio n , A ran, F en co . I am ffoing to etc* th e r e . p p oes your Product Hat. Contain a l i s t of a l l the products th at yon manufacturer! or a .h o. t. oomos r ie s ? t think that has been presen ted , y e s, s ir . , d oes*th at l i s t contain the p a r ticu la r names th et each of th ese com panies gave to vour product? I f you'd lik e , you are welcome to co n su lt th at l i s t to check P t N t . D C O .. S aV O N N C , N .J. 'O " th a t. Y es. Page 3 of the d e sc r ip tio n . MR. GRAYZEL: For th e r e c o r d , th e y w ere 15 p reviou sly provided to i e in nsvere to Tnterrogatorjles 16 lO . ILARDI: Page 3 o f E x h ib it 2 . 17 q Did E agle P ich er ever bave a c o n tra c tin g 18 u n it ? 19 A 20 21 u n it s ? 22 A Y es. n Do you know what y e a r s th e y had c o n tr a c tin g j I The f i r s t one vas in the early - I should s a , late 23 30s and was abandoned in 4 3 . 24 q no you know wh" E a g le P ic h e r abandoned i t s 25 c o n t r a c t o r u n it s ? nuei iw a ir e c i 81 1 || A The gen tlem an who was in c h a rg e o f th a t p a r t ic u la r 2 II setup went in business for him self, took the business with 3 || bin. 4 II Q 5 || remember? What did be c a ll bis business, do you 6 IIA In d u strial In su lato rs, Incorporated, I think, of 7 || Houston, Texas. H ^ During the time that you were with Eagle 9 | Picher, did you ever go out to construction s ite s or v is it 10 facto ries where your company's insulation products were used? 11 II A I have v isite d a very small number of construction 12 || s ite s , yes. P C N 6 A 0 CO .. S A V O N N E. N .J. 7 001 . fO N M M M 13 11 Q And during those occasions, did you actually 14 II watch the various asbestos-containing insulation products 15 your company manufactured being mixed and applied? 16 || A No 17 Jl Q Yu d id n 't. Have you ever v is ite d fa c to rie i 18 | where your company's asbestos-containing insulation products 19 were used? 20 A Yes. 21 II Q 22 II v isite d ? Do you re c a ll what types of plants you 23 IIA I v isite d Busch Brewery once in re la tio n to some 24 || o f our p r o d u c ts and Vega I n d u s t r ie s . 25 II Q H-d you ever v is it a chemical plant where ].jc lfitc -r - d i r e c t 82 1 our cote p u n y 's prod it'In v ? \ c !x ln;_ isM ? 2J 1- I v i; , :e. c'. r. wo:. t f'le r in Tf-:; 3 ** At r ;i >f tber.i r ' r l t n , vd elJ r: 4 ' ust 1 Frewory or th e power p la n t tn T ex a s, d id you a c t u a lly 5 n e e your nmpnny's ard -eR toe-rortr '.ri'V insulat*"' r- . r->ducts 6 ' i : i.-ixc or r.pol! led ? 7: ., . i r . 8 " r-ett oer I'M? ai d , wore there o cca sio n s 9 *\he**o vour own ooti -".r*1*r n a ^ h in er v end ecu 1T ie r t had to be 10 c- ^fp '? 11 / 12 "ea. .A; d T v-vi^d asru n e th a t vour corronry w ould 13 ' - vi'. njv ri -ti'-r ovr ii'Kulr *i'"r products? 14 I-. N tt ^ r . 15 o T'e r e th e r e r p e e l f i e em p lo y ees in your 16 orapany o d id th e i n s u l a t i o n work? 17 p Yot per s o . Host o f tbo in s u la tin g work was done 18 ` - ti e Pr d u et end '"b'O'-urt P r o c e s s P pvpi.opnert s t a f f f o r 19 ' h e i r own b e n e f i t ' f d e v o l v i n g e r ^ d r e ts er s e e i n g w h eth er 20 ry ch a n g es i r th e o ro d u et n ig h t be u s e f u l . 21 Put th e r e was a. need fo r i n d u s t r i a l 22 i n s u l a t i o n or: your own f a c i l i t i e s ? 23 A Y es. 24 r) T r l-* n n rorir o f th e "nnci l e e r y and eejuioment 25 nour ~ , r ''t t ua t ^sd to b*5 i e s u l n t e d betw een 1942 and 1964. i ueister direct dli 1/ " o ile r s , steam lir.*?-, trne.fr lin e s fo r a s p h a ltic 2 solutions. 3 r Were th e r e o th er ty o e s o f k e t t l e s or 4 c o n ta in e rs or v e s s e ls o f ary kind that had to he in su la te d 5 from tim e to tin e ? 4 6a In su la ted oar t i t io n s oroune hic-h tem perature 7 f o r n r c e r . They w ere ,1'is t poyeepp in a s e n s e . 8 C in r other types of equipm ent, any other 9 types of piping? 10 h yr,t n in e s o f a l l d e s c r i p t i o n s . A n y th in g th a t wan 11 h o t , we t r i e d to i n s u l a t e d , y e s . 12 lh a t was th e .job c l a s s i f i c a t i o n o f th e 13 em p lo y ees in your company who d id t h i s i n s u l a t i n g work? 14 a F it h e r Ms in to n e nee D enartm ent em p lo y ees o r , a s I 15 s t a t e d b e f o r e , th o s e i n d i v i d u a l s th a t w ere w ork in g in th e 16 P rod uct s"d P r o c e s s D evelopm ent Lab. 17 o Were th e s e M aintenance Departm ent em p loyees 18 a c t u a l l y engaged in i n s u l a t i o n workon. a f u l l - t i m e b a s is ? 19 3 Fo. 20 21 A r` On a r e g u la r b a s is ? Whenever i t was req u ired . 22 f\ i am t r y in g t o g e t some id e a o f how much 23 i n s u l a t io n work went on in your company. Can you d e s c r ib e 24 th a t f o r me? 25 A N othing o f a lon g d u r a t io n or a con tin u ou s d u ra tio n . i iwituer oiroci 84 1 In o th e r words, i f n r te n o l i n r wns put up in a c e r t a in 2 l o c a t i o n , th a t l i n o was in e -il a tr d r>d th a t would hr- (ho end 3 ' f i f fo r :hat p e r io d . 4 r* From tim e to tim e , would your em p loyees S r e o l e c e o ld i n s u l a t i o n on pome o f t h e s e v e s s e l s , c o n t a in e r s 6 *nd o io e s ^ou m en tioned? 7A I f a l i n e w ould have to Ik? tak en down or r e p la c e d , 8 th e i n s u l a t i o n was removed w ith i t and d e s tr o y e d . *`e w ere 9 in th e p r o c e s s o f making i n s u l a t i o n , s o we d id n 't t r y to 10 sa v e i t . 11 '* D id th e men who d id th e i n s u l a t io n have 12 o c c a s io n to u se Super 66 Cement? 13 / v e s. 14 Did th ey have o c c a s io n to u se O ne-Cote 15 r em ent? 16 A Ye3. 17 9 Did th ey have o c c a s io n to use your company* 18 o ip e co v er in * m a t e r ia ls ? 19 /, When you r e f e r to n in e c o v e r ini?, we w ere ?iot in th e 20 m anufacture o f o ip e c o v e r in g s u n t i l 1972. 21 Q So th en , your comoany d id n 't use -- d id n 't 22 m an u factu re a p r e fa b r ic a t e d p ip e c o v e r in g m a te r ia l? 23 A N ot a s su c h . We made a p ip e c o v e r in g w hich was in 24 b la n k e t form . 25 Q Did your em ployees use th is ? Huelster - direct 85 1A Y es. That did not con tain any a sb e sto s. 2 C D id you, v r u r s o l f , p v n r o b se r v e 'he em ploye a 3 in ycur crr;pany doinc t h is in s u la t io n work th a t you have 4 previou sly described? 5A Y es. 6 Q At any tim e d id ycur rononny ev er provide 7 t h e s e m ain ten an ce men wh*~. d id t h i s i n s u l a t i o n work w ith 8 r e s p ir a to r s or fa c e masks? 9A They were a v a ila b le i f they wanted to use them. 10 Q D id your company r e c u ir e them to use -- to 11 wear t h e s e f a c e masks or r e s p i r a t o r s ? 12 A They d id n o t. 13 O. How a b ou t a f t e r 1 9 6 4 , d id you r e u ir e 14 them to wear i t a t th a t tim e? 15 A The r e g u la t io n s w ere n o t changed. 16 Q At any tim e b efo re your company im plem ented 17 i t s d e c i s i o n to remove a s b e s t o s from your th erm al i n s u l a t i o n 18 p r o d u c ts , d id you e v e r i n s t r u c t th e men who d id i n s u l a t i o n 19 work in your company to wear f a c e masks or r e s p i r a t o r s ? 20 A No. 21 Q What d id Super 66 Cement lo o k l ik e ? 22 A L e t ' s s e e . . The b e s t way to d e s c r ib e Super 66 Cement 23 w ou ld be n o d u le s o f m in e r a l f i b e r , b e n t o n it e c l a y , w h ich i s 24 a pow der, a s m a ll p e r c e n ta g e o f a s b e s t o s a lo n g w ith th e 25 o th e r i n g r e d i e n t s , su ch a s powdered so a p and a r u s t i n h i b i t o r liuclster - direct 8b 1 wuic h i s s-dium n i t r i t e . 2 o For th e 'nice n>i s f ted , bon w n-' c 3 ye*T d e s c r i ' r i t s ap p earan ce? 4A A l i g h t gray g r a n u la r m a t e r i a l . Now, by g r a n u la r , 5 I d'* n o t r^an s a n d - t y p f , ra y h e n e ? l e t s ab ou t th e e l s e o f 6 t ' e en d s o.J" ''m.ir l i t t l e f i n g e r . 7 8A Q Wr.t d id i t f e e l l i k e ? S-.onnv. 9 10 A O What did" O ne-C ote Cement lo o k l ik e ? V .m s i m i la r to 66, o n ly i t was a w h ite r a tc r in ? 11 b e c a u se i t c o n ta in e d w h ite n o r tla n d cem ent and a la r g e r 12 p e r c e n ta g e o f f i n e powders w hich i s s i m i l a r t o P o r tla n d 13 cem ent and b e n to n ite c l a y . 66 Cement d id not c o n ta in any 14 P o r tla n d cem en t. 15 Q What was i t s t e x t u r e l i k e ? 16 A Very s i m i la r tn 66 due to th e g r a n u la te d m in e ra l 17 f i b e r bu t th e s p o n g in e s s w as l e s s . 18 Q Wes i t e a s y to o b s e r v e th e d i f f e r e n c e s 19 betw een tbp two? 20 A Beth in c o lo r and f e e l . 21 Q Did th e I n s u la t i o n D i v i s i o n em ploy i t s own 22 m a in ten a n ce w o rk ers0 23 A Y es. 24 Q So, th e m a in ten a n ce w o rk ers who worked in 25 th e I n s u la t i o n D epartm ent w ere not o a r t o f a p la n t-w id e i II 1 **aintnanco deportm ent V e n? * 2 r trr-i.t Vfii t1V rr *-"i ' '>!. ;:n , r f t -. . ... , 3 II r* r, ~ ' '** ' ` ,,:an^ -'en m arin e," , 4 * * t B t e n. nc,, D epartm ent over th e ' ..... _ 5 varied? ' th y e a r s or would th at have ^ ^ 7 II 8 9 II "I w ould t *!*> r - 7 U the M ar for - --* the wa7 from tw e lv e to f o r t y 0 * - * "'Hd each o f th e se tw elve t ,, me? _ of ir su ln tt,, ,, r , ? " 1121 ,, *k K>t e*C" "e f be,.-,us, t v . , f -?rr--rCcc t,,im es ^ e n no i r - B t a t i o o ,, n t OB fo r VM rs 13 II r 1/1 II ^ rt of U 15 II departm ent? Was th e d o ir g o f thernnT linn `'>Tt i!..- i*IOI? Vir,r!r .u a ir te n a o e ^nnn f<-, -ilnotv s_o e - i.f. i ^ a i i v. a rotjr TM Pe, b,,, , , 3 , fNMr. ^ 18 th ',r e ' a n l0 n *"" * ^ oar ^ iter 1946, yes. 19 II 0 U ^ did your eom oa^ 20 11.4*fc .u | w itb them fo r c o n tr a c ts ? ' ' . ""*** ln n la n .T 21 " A D efin itely . 22 || 0 03 1 * And aB a ^onsequeno off ntb,o9,e ^ S o tia tto n s 1 o r your own company o o i i c r dirt 2 J ' " y,,,,r w "rmnv 10b I " " l or instrrm ttons * * ,,r,,,, , ' 2g II ' ** " f>f A Wr s e t un a oroernn vr9 4_ ,, * 0 9 jn coooeration Huelater - direct union. 0 T e l l me what th a t orogram i s and how k vr>i a ffe c t t ho -- what the specified ,1oh duties of the mnintenanc men were. ^ In the Maintenance Department there were, if I recall correctly, five classificatio n s, beginners, f ir s t, second, third class and group leader. ^ How, did your company promulgate anything w ritten , whether i t be ru le s , in stru ctio n s or sp ecificatio n s regarding what the ,job duties of each of these d ifferen t employees was, whether they be beginners, et cetera? Do you understand my question? A Yes, in a way. I am not p a rtic u la rly c le a r, but I might be able to answer i t th is way; I'm the one that instigated the program to begin w ith, and in maintenance, 16 if an organization -- the word "maintenance individual" 17 would have to do a l l types of work required within the 18 p lant. 19 Q Right. 20 * The c la ss ific a tio n s are based on the a b ility to 21 perform those maintenance functions. There was no separate 22 division a t to e le c tric ia n , m illw right, machine hand, p o rter, 23 greaser. I t was under oDe c la s s ific a tio n , maintenance. 24 Q Ibuld any one of these c la ss ific a tio n s 25 lave been responsible for performing the insulation work in Hue i s t e r - a i r e c i the In su la tio n Department? A 2 Not any one c l a s s i f i c a t i o n nor any one in d iv id u a l, g S o , any o f th e men in th e M aintenance 3 D epartm ent, r e g a r d le s s o f th e ir c l a s s i f i c a t i o n , would hav 4 on occasion^ been req u ired to do in s u la tio n workr 5 6A 7 Not n e c e ss a r ily w ould, but could have. q Now, in your company anywhere was th ere a 8 s e t o f in s tr u c t io n s , stan d ard s or s p e c if ic a t io n s which la id i t o u t in b la c k and w h ite f o r t h e s e men a s to wbat t h e ir 9 10 jo b e n t a i le d ? A You s a i d ''com pany." You mean th e company a s a w h ole PtNCAO CO.. MYONHC. N.J. Oi 0 - > a ll d ivision s? Q No. A ll I'm r e sp o n s ib le fo r i s one d iv is io n , T l a t 's a l l I want to know. Was th e r e i n s t r u c t i o n s l a i d o u t f o r ea ch in d iv id u a l? q Y e s. In o th e r w o r d s, d id you g iv e tbea: a 17 j 8 II b o o k le t or a b ro ch u re or a l i s t som ewhere th a t s a i d m a in te n - 19 anoe e m p lo y e e s , and g a v e th e a l i s t o f a b a t t h e y ' r e su p p osed 20 fl to do or w hat t h e y ' r e r e q u ir e d to do? A No. q During the years th at you worked w ith E agle P io b er, do you r e c a ll the names o f any of the foremen or the o ld tim ers in your M aintenance Department ho orked w ith your company fo r a number o f y e a rs? mielster - direct 90 1A The names o f them? 2 Q Yes. 3A Y e s, I r e c a l l a few o f th e men. 4 Q Would you g iv e me some o f th o se names o f 5 th e men? 6A Edward B oeland was on e. 7 8A Q Yes. Was he from M isso u r i? 9 Q Do you th in k he i s s t i l l w ith vour company? 10 A No, I thin k he i s r e t ir e d ; G erald Morland. I think 11 be i s d e c e a se d ; J a ck A l l e n , he l e f t th e company b e fo r e I d id ; 12 John Edw ards, who was m a in ten a n ce forem an fo r a number o f 13 y e a r s . He f i n a l l y r e t i r e d . Woody M eyers was a m ain ten a n ce 14 man. How many more do you want? 15 Q T h a t 's f i n e . Do you know w h eth er or not in 16 o th e r a r e a s o f your p la n t o th e r than th e I n s u la t i o n D e p a r t 17 ment th e r e was a need f o r i n s u l a t i o n work to be done? 18 A I b e lie v e I sta ted that in su la tio n w ithin the plant 19 was done on steam p ip e s or h ot l i n e s or b o i l e r s a s th ey 20 w ere i n s t a l l e d or a s ch a n g e s w ere made. 21 0 To your k n o w led g e, have any o f th e em ployee 22 who worked in your M ain ten an ce D epartm ent e v e r f i l e d a c la im 23 f o r Workmen's C om pensation f o r an a l l e g e d a s b e s t o s - r e l a t e d 24 d i s e a s e ? 25 No, s i r . agister - direct O Is th ere an in d iv id u a l in your company, 1 0 your k n o w led g e , who m o n ito r s or k e e o s tra ck of Workmen s 2 lorapensation Claim s? 3 The P erson n el D irecto r of the In su la tio n Department 4 lid , and th en , a fte r th a t, i t was turned over to a .join t 5 Personnel Department which in clu d ed e le c t r o n ic s , chem ical 6 7 nd f i b e r s . O 8 Do you know who th e man w ould be who would 9 >e in ch arge o f th a t? 10 1 C.D. Wood was th e f i r s t o n e . He i s r e t i r e d , ie ls o n Barbey , I t h in k , i s now s t i l l p r e s e n t d i r e c t o r . 11 12 Ci Do you know i f a n y o n e, any em ployee o f 13 Sagle P ic h e r , i t s p r e d e c e s s o r s , a f f i l i a t e s , e t c e t e r a , have 14 ?ver become a f f l i c t e d w ith an a s b e s t o s - r e l a t e d d is e a s e ? 15 No. q Is that you d o n 't know, or a s fa r as you 16 17 know, th e r e a r e none? 18 4 We have never bad a c a s e , n ev er had a r e f e r e n c e to 19 case. Q D oes your know ledge e x te n d up to the iresen t tim e or would have extend ed to your retirem en t? S in ce 1971, I have been -- have not been d ir e c tly c o n n e c te d w ith th e o p e r a t io n . What I w ould sa y in th e p a st y ea rs from '71 to th e p resen t tim e w ould be on ly h ea rsa y . O But whether i t be hearsay or p erson al tCon ro croo ttoo ro oto vO 00 PENGAO C O .. OAVONNE. M .i. 07001 FORM 2040 o in CO to oo 9> cn ^ co ''now l e d g e , you know o f none? MR -J to ra .-* H* rt- D H 9 >-3 tr o 1 9 t> 9 '*0 3 "J a '.r rv5 3 J-W B * 4 .4 O "1 D C -0 ,i O 7^ j a * oO -1 ;> rO :3 n a -V* s d* J <* - 3* 'S! M D 3 4 -* 3* 0 "O H J 0 4 J* U3 O *D 3 - o O M* <j. J .7 *o J i. JJ T 'J a "j - 3 a. J .1 0 0 <- q J 3 13* to ./> 3) Eu r*t H* 3 O w* ~i -t- Ji .T a H* (0 a* < to I i 0? CERTIFICATE I, 'VTPICW } \ Livif-MUTJJCV, n N o t a r y P u b l i c and Cert. i f i r d S h o r t h a n d R e p o r t e r o f t h e S t a t e o f New J e r s e y , do hereby c e rtify that the foregoing is a true and aoourate 'tr a n s c r i p t of the '-roceediny:? in the a b o v e - e n t i t le d n a t t e r a s t a k e n by me s t e n o g r a o h i c a l l y on t h e date and at the time and olace hereinbefore set forth. I DO FURTHER CERTIFY t h a t I am n eith er of counsel nor a ttorney for any p a r t y i n t h i s a c t i o n and t h a t I am n o t in te r e s te d i r the event nor outcome of thin litigation. F E N C A 0 C O ., B A V O N M E . W .J. 0 7 0 0 * . EO RM 104 r A