Document mpv8qYV32MVNgM1XOvVogGLjg

RADIO TV REPORTS. INC. AIA-33 EAST 4!nd STREET, new YORK. N Y 10017 FOR ASBESTOS INFORMATION ASSOCIATES program ASEESTOS-THE DEADLY MINERAL station V/EA|/F,v DATE October k , 1972 S : i 5 PM city New York FULL TEXT MODERATOR: Tonroht's Public Affairs Magazine is about asbestos and folio wine the taccc cart of Che c r o o i- r. m w c- v i ! 1 take phone, calls after that and we'd like to h; ;r fro r pccclt during the phone call portion who have had d e r s o n a ] exnerierces with health hazards on their jobs. Health hazards in general. Following is a tape which is cooing right uo, / e 1 1 1 be takino phone calls on the subject of health hazards. Job situation. How the deadly mineral. . MAh': We're not talking about rare cases. We're talkir.c about an eoidenic of cancer, in the asbestos industry. We suscect over the next tv/enty years, ten years, it's coinc to be tremcncous numbers, probably runs into the tens of thousands of people. Many of us have, been ex.posecl to it. '.-.'hat's to say that all of us who have been exposed to the soray at the World Trade Center, what percentage of those who will core down with cancer twenty years from now, it may be a large number of peoole. MAM: Asbestos is all around you. It coats the steel beams of many skyscrapers. It gees into the brakes of most cars and trucks and into floor tiles, pipe insulation and roc f ir.r shingles. Asb.estos is widely" used because it is fireproof, a good insulator and the only common mineral that can be woven into cloth. I/O MAH: Since the beginning of the century, doctors have known that huge quantities of asbestos dust ingested into the lungs causes gradual strangulation. That dissease is asbestos is. It is like black lung, the coal disease that shortens the lives of miners. MAN: Mow the link between asbestos and cancer has been proven Asbestos diseases will take the lives of ninety thousand of the two hundred and fifty thcrusand Americans who work directly with asbestos. And they are threatening the health of at least three and a half million other construction workers. Asbestos may be increasing the incidence of lung cancer among the general poculatie rice* IN VO*K 0*T*|T * LOS AhAVUS * WAIN^NOTON. O. , NSW IKdtJtNJ CHlCAOO AIA-33 2- - HAN: It's the opinion of a lot of coys that ever the urn with the ... WOMAN : Union, ................ Business Agent, New York Asbestos Vorfers MA:: : ... rany, nary fell ows have the end result was they've cone to the and the fellows believed their doctors hasn't Had a winner yet, you know. attracted a disease arc hospital, hac o p f r t i o r s . ... sore one rntie red, MAN: ... where I work , has available the entire records of the international ... MAM: ... Bill Nicholson, doctor of the'Mount Sinai Labs, NICHOLSON: ... the New York and few Jersey locals are - he's traced every m enter of that union since ft began in I ? ! 0 . Taking the 19**3 membership, there were six hundred end thirtytwo members in 1 ? A 3 , As 0f January first of this year, four hur.dre and eighty-four of those renders have died. Whereas oulv occur three hundred would have been expected to have died. That is a hundred and eighty-four died who should not have. When one locks at the causes of their deaths, one finds that instead of about eleven deaths due to lung career, there vie re seventy-three. Seven tires no re than expected. MAN: We've had a couple, though, we've had a couple -- Jack Novak, the former business npnager of the local had an operation in January, part of his lune was taken out and he`s on the road to -- he's almost fully recovered now, but unfortunately, I rust say quite honestly, that the odds are very much against us. MAN: ... that I, myself, January, had ... WOMAN': Jack Novak. NOVAK: ... Iunc operation containing a tumor and also an asbestesis of the luna. however, t an a very fortunate rsn to be here giving you this information' mine was proven to be nonmalic However i am the rare and exceptional case. however, at this time, as you notice in ry voice, it is very sad, because o; the fact in the past twelve hours, I have just received a bulletin, a notice, that my own international president Albert F. . Hutchins m has passed away of the same dreadful disc-ase. asbestesis cf t be longs . AIA-33 3- - MAN : There are other fellows r^at have this disease that they're not aware of, you know, and we try to hole t 1t civs alc^c and make them feel like evervthi'c's ccinn to be a i 1 r i c h t , but we know what the end result is coinc to be. NIChCLSC1;: We find that nearly fifty percent of the", of the deaths, could be due to s ore form of cancer so t~at von are dealinc.with a material that in excessive concentration is a verv potent carcinoceo. Also, when you leek throuchoet the Lnited States, the-re might be two hundred to two hundred and f i f t v thou sc" workers occunatlonally exposed to dust at this tire. And if the t r mortality c-xoerience is similar to that of the insulation workers, it's really a national catastroDhe. MAH: All I can say, is, nearly all the material we use is bad for our health because you're hardline all of it. hearlv every heavy piece of material outside the canvas is about t r e only thing (UNCLEAR) ... eventually, one of these days, it's goi to kill us all. That's all I have to say. 1 knot; it's coinc to happen because already 1 have emphysema, see. My tunes are in pretty bad shape. Developed maybe about fifteen years ago. MAN: Asbsestos dust causes at least three diseases. Asbestos lung cancer, and mesothc-liom.a. Cesol th? 1 i ors almost never occurs without some known exoosure to asbestos. MAN: Asbestos fibers can break down Into extremely fir-e minute fibril Its: in fact, it can be as small as about one-fi.fty thousands of an inch in size- that's not an uncommon size at all. These are inhaled into the lower respiratory tract and stick there. The- presence of asbestos in your lungs cause-s fibrous scar tissue to form, which prevents the passage of the- oxygen from your luncss into the bloodstream. And workers , i*n addition to the cancer, die of what is called asbestosis - that is. they virtually suffocate because they can't get cnouah oxycc-n into their system. MAN: Felt pretty good until this last January. WOMAN: Daniel Makaborsky, asbestos factory worker. MAN: ...pretty healthy. Just hit me all of a sudden, started getting that bloated stomach. V/ent to my own doctor, and he put me in a hospital as soon as he looked at re. Put me in a hnsnital, and well after eight days they couldn't find nothiro wrong, then they did an exploratory and found out what happened. MAN: In 19f-3 you came in with a bloated abdominal cavity, and were operated or. to find cut why... AJA-33 -4- Dr. Barrow. 3 A P "CM : . . . cu re your t y p e of tumor, w h i c u w fe c i d. rot r rccr- r. i -- c. - nd ricrosco n i c a 11 v it just t o1u us C " 1 S - s rv. ; 3 * u r 1 i c ~ a , a b out V, i c h 1 '< n c w n o t h i n g . 1 had heard of i t , cm1 i r. 1 or1. l r r i r U D 1 n textbooks . there was v c r v little d f s c r i b - d o r. - e t *' ,2 te i i r - a A s o r a * ter c f act thev state that it's a po L h o 1 oc i C cu r ? r S i tv a r, C1 c T 1" q st never ex i s t s . And Chen the cases starred coni no one after another, and now we have about sixty-seven, sixty-eioht cases. Ml these oat'e-t; had asbestos in their lungs, and all of ther, with tue exception of three, were employees in the asbestos industry. And t-ese people, first of all, had asbestos in their lungs, causing pul monary asbestosis. And then twenty or more years later, after their first exposure to it - they had twenty years of continuous exposure, where, you just need exposure for a r-t nr- or two - i-,r twenty years, or thirty, or even forty years I ? t`r they core cowwith malignancies. The ne thj the 1iora remains confined t c the organ or to the cavity in which it starts. And basically it gets larger, and larger, and larger until eventually it conoresses theorgan. MAKACOf,SKY: ...Dr. Barrow and the other doctors trying to help rc out with a new drug, that's the only chance 1 have. That's progressing on a long road, but 1 don't know... BAP.ROV,': ...eighteen months. The averse? life expectancy at the time of diagnosis is probably about twelve, fourteen months. None have gone longer than eighteen months. MAKAPORSKY: ...that's where all the dust cones fron. I/O NAN : Daniel Nakaborsky died on September l^th". He was forty-nine years old, and a member of the Johns-fianv i 1 11 Company s Quarter Century Club. Very little was done to limit the levels of exposure to asbestos dust in the work place until the 1960s. For years the Labor Cecartre had maintained a limit for asbestos particles in the air of twelve fibers per cubic centimeter. A centimeter is about a thimblefull of air. MAN: Then the rising incidence of disease, the passage of the Occupational Health and Safety Act in 1971, and crow inn pressure from unions forced the Department of Labor to reexamine its standarcs O' AIA-33 5- - I ndustry proposed a limit o` ten fibers: it later c a'~e down to five. Earlier this year the labor 'eoartrcr* final Iv set a s t a n c a r of five fibers until 13 7 6, and two fibers thereafter. Or. Zelikcff, and other i ndcstror-rt researchers, denounced the four year delay se fore the two fiber level as inexcusable. T'hMe the differrncc- between two ana five fibers may not seem great, it will mean that asbestos workers will breathe an extra twenty to thirty nil lion fibers per day for four more years. WOMAN: (n addition to the delay, the new standard only counts fibers longer than five ricrcns in length. -any fibers are shorter than this. There is growing evidence fror Or.Zelilcff s research that these smaller particles do even areater damage than the longer MAN: Paul Cacura, staff writer for the ` ew Yorker. EAOUPA: All the standards that have been proposed... he-re and elsewhere In the world, are geared only to the possible- pre vention of asbestosis scarring of the lungs. There has been no threshhold of value, no standard set anywhere that would ouroort in any way to prevent the occurrence of tunc cancer. TONY MAjAICI: ...call zero, exposure to astestos fibers... WOMAN: Tony Kasacci. legislative citizenship director of the Oil, Chemical and Atonic Workers l.nicn. MASACC I : We don't know what level at which cancer occurs or doesn't occur. There's no safe level, as far as we're concerned. The five fiber, and then the two fiber, really deals with orevent ing asbestesis, but not preventing the incidence of cancer. So therefore we call for a standard that would protect workers against cancer. MAN: I was kind of disappointed that they didn't bring it down, the fiber count lower, you know, they had it uo to five. But I guess that's what most industry wanted, to kc-e.o it at five, because - well, t guess they're lockino out for their pocketbooks more than. ..probably too expensive f_o.r ro<f n.--them. Bgt J-N wouldn't have a problem netting it down because most of their rarinne are under f 1 . t-n . I - M 1 s Ore of the more advanced . t guess, in dust c o TT^^iga n d all that, environ mental 'and so on. I guess they seen the handwritino on the wall, and they been trying to clean it up. MAN: Daniel Makaborsky was a worker in a factory that pro duces asbestos products. The other major use of asbestos in the U.S. is in the construction trades. AIA-33 6- - M A N : See here, this is a o t 1 e of ruoble, rich t . that t" e laborer Mas sweat uo into one little area. t/e rave cercrcrc rust there, we have croken lirht bulbs, we have cans, we rave fiberclrs. and v; a have the natural dirt of the t r o s r, here, r i c ^ t ? This i$ all ousted together. .\'ow when he's pick ire this here stuff u r , this will treat.: so much dust it's unbelievable. As Mike lust showed you oc^r, ra when he just slaooed the ooer ends of a section in front of tne 1 i ch t bulo, you sawthe dust there. Well, that 1 s minute compared to what will becreated here. Mow the fellow that's working with it may not necessarily use a mask. cw Charlie may be wo rk i r, a there, and t~e laborer comes along and picks this up. New Charlie doesn't need the res:'r now. Now this guy's creating huce aremts of dust. So nevj not only is Charlie, and "ike, and Peter work i oc here, there- rev k e ether trades in the I rred i ate area, such as 'e l r l r < c : : e . or car- or so on. you .know - you can name a half doner o t h c r trades. Sc the ether fellows becomt recipients of somcthinc crested by somebody else, and they're not aware, of this. MAN: ...haven't seen a mask yet that I think is that good, Cets saturated, and pretty soon you got the dust trapped inside the mask, you're breathing I t a 1 1 . M.A N : Anothe r thing, 1 i he Nick wc a rs classes. A fell ow such as kick wearing classes, if he. usc-s a resnirator, re rare less of what tyoe it is, after cn hour, half an hour, arc possibly sevr?) minutes, his classes will start to cloud un, ceccuse, of the e x h a 1 i r right? iiow v;htn you exhale and co up through the mask, no ratter how tight it is, and it will cloud one's glasses. .'low can you imagine a man, sometimes works several hundred feet in the air on scaffolds, so now if a follow's gof cJoudc-d glasses, if he needs the classes for vision and his glasses arcmomentarily clouded, he could be -walking off into the atmosphere and go down maybe twenty stories or forty stories. MAN: I can't, I work with it fifteen minutes, and I'm choking But as you say, use the respirator. How long can you use the respirator? If you use it ten or fifteen minutes, that's co l nr to kill you too, because you're not breathing properly. MAN: He has a hard time breathing without a respirator. Then if he puts one on, it's twice as hard. And all his orcans are working overtime. MAN: Can you tell me if they re made a hundred pe-rernr s fcure resp I rators? AIA-33 MAN : ! do u 11 it. MAN: Yeah, we never found one. MAN: Everyth inc that has an advontar's ta? a di sadv? ntare going v/ith it. If a ^ e 1 1 c1. ' wears a rese i r; ;or eich* hours ? cay, at the end- of t ' e day he'd wind uo with a heart a t t a ci' . And he can't produce as much, how if the cuv doesn't use- t" r rr spi rater , he'll produce tnree tires as much, but what is it coinc to his body , MAN: As you said, sore fellows can't breathe prco^rly, But you get anybody that's put an average of ten, fifee-n years in this business, he's not going to be prooer any core , because he's already infected. MAN: ...his lungs have started it. V/A MAN The asbestos manufacturing industry has beer widely criticized for the long years in which it did little for the health of its workers. The industry did not begin major dust control programs until after Dr. Zelikoff's findings became known. It refused to assist Zelikoff's early studies of the asbestos epidemic. Johns - Manv i 1 1e , the industry giant, turned down Dr. Barrow's reouest to fund an exhibit on the numerous health hazards in the late lbuCs. For years J-M and other comoanies refused to tell employees when their x-rays began to reveal signs of asbestosis. During the years when reports of asbestes- 1inkcd cancer first began to appear, J-M refused to release these x-rays to private physicians. And J-M is generally thought to be the nest progressive member of the industry in matters of occupational health. MAM: In making this documentary, we tried hard tc get tie industry point of view. Vfe visited the J c h n s * M a n v i i 1 s plant in Manville, New Jersey. There, public relations director William Ruff, refused to be interviewed. Referring our questions to the corporate headquarters in Colorado, he explained that J-M and the Industry had had bad experiences with the press in recent years . Mr. Goodman, national director of public relations M, was not available when we called him in Colorado, or called him repeatedly durinc a trip of his to New York, never personally returned our calls. for Jwhen we And be Finally we asked fir. Matthew Switonik, executive secretary of the Asbestos Information Association, an i ndustry-wide public relations group, for an interview. He. accepted, but hours before his scheduled appearance, we received the following telegram. c* AIA-33 In light of oast experiences, the Asbestos Inforretio^ A 5 s c o f ,','orth America must decline the invitation to a on ear on t~e VBA | - ? M radio oroorar on asbestos . Very truly yours ." a t : u e-., , S . itonik, executive secretary. ;* A $ A C C I : | y , if they were truly an Asbestos ln,'cr^atior Association, r-thcr then an asbestos misinformation association, they would be very greatly for an octor;unity to hear... WOfAi; : Tory 1`asacci , f'.A S A C C ! : ...what myself and others would have to say. It's rather apparent that they would rather just sit hack and issue statements or denials, rathe-r than act into any sort of debate over what the ob ; e c t i v _LaX-L_. a r a ',/h.at management has been doi " t is atunctmo a t_ every turn of the road to frustrate anv effort to improve the situations of workers, and thy ccrr-r i tv - because I have to make, this quite clear: it's not only workers who a re F bel ng subjected to the perils of cancer, but the ccrmunity also. . KAI! : How long - I can't guess hov; long - but there Is suffi 1 cient evidence over many years now that the. re was a relatlo-shio between asbestos and cancer. 1 mean, it's not someth inn w<? dis covered o v e - n i g h t . And the industry certainly had information that we didn't have, you know. Their own doctors were- able to see what v;as happening to individuals over any number of veers . Certainly out at Johns -/'.anv i 1 1 e in 1,'ew Jersey they were aware that people were coning down with cancer in disorccorticnate numbers. MA KABO" S1'Y : I guess that was their policy, J t was a mm.-jiv policy/'just didn't let anybody know!* Somebody knew, you krow, flfi Was fiflfi'AA down with a lot of dust, or sonethina, he would have maybe switched jobs, or someth?no like that, you know. That's one thing that the company didn't do right. KA?I : As far as we ' re concerned, what industry has accepted from workers is a subsidy, a subsidy in years of people's lives, and you can translate it into a monetary subsidy. And what In essence industry is saying, we wish to continue with that sub sidy and not have_to__i_nvest more money to make plant and eouio- ment sa me n ta Dr . Irving Zeiikoff, director of the Mt. Sinai Environt b o r a t ott~ - ZELiKCFF: The safe working environment is exneisivr... money necessary to make an environment safe, it would bear heavily or. their competitive position. So that if other companies do not AIA-33 -c- do this, the conoany that wishes to do it pir h t find it verv d i f c i cult , And this is in larcc cart wha t is hao n ea i r c , arc I t h i n k has greatly del ayfc the n e c e s s a r v safety rff'urc s. M A N : ....and would not break then. 1 re 1* n -- * tk i s is - c- c 1 and usual story tK a t co r. s frem industry: i * ' s c r-- i r r to r - ten ?x: s i ve . de n 1 t ever, t h i rk t'st should b - a f act 0 r in t l- - $ w - c 1 Question, simply because when v ou 1 re. c o n f rent e- d w I1 *-'- tu- K zr, f c c t t exposure is aoino to cause cancer, t h e -e s h o u 1 d LU e- r.o a u 3 t- i c n that you have to arrest that situation ir me d i ate 1 v . It s lJ neon s clonafc 1 e to continue an operation knowing the t a percent c f c f the peocle will contract cancer. They've usually done nothing, they've, only re spencid to ores sure to do * ycu know, even to make sene superficial ` - n r o v r : e -> _ s such OS what has occurred in the City of :C'.' vcrh t u' " r 5 - ! \ protecting some of the populous frcri asbestos sorayino. hut, you know, there'll be a ban on asbestos SDraving, fir.;, but you know, pillions and pillions cc people nave b e * r exposed. and tens of thousand of workers have .een exposed, and cc'tif.uf to be exposed, dothinr has charged. MAi,'; 1 would like- someone to say that I'n wrong '.'hen 1 say this, that you can't sat oroocrly, you can't breathe nrc-w-rlv, and if you do snoie, the cigarettes don't taste the sere. .* t A ?! : They go in and snray it when noted v else is sun nosed to be on the floor. Cut as scon as they leave and they co tc the next floor - and they might block it off. Cut then th*- steer fitter comes along and he's got to put a banner on the bear, he's got to scrape that stuff off. Or you go uo there, and you're work ing, and you brush against it, and it comes down on you, it gets down in your clothes, then you're breathing it at the sane tire. So 1 just don't think it's any good at all. MAN: for years I see these fellows spraying these beams. Nov/ this is going on about ten or fifteen years. I seen inspec tors come down on the job, they're going to outlaw then. They're still going on, they're still goinq on. So sometimes I think these interviews, as far as I'm concerned, ain't doing a world of good, because nobody seems to do nothing about it. MAM : The other day in Cincinatti it was discovered in a major research center... WOMAN: Paul Eadura. BADURA: ...sprayinq asbestos. And the Assistant Cincinatti Health Commissioner said that he had not seen fit to issue any AIA-33 -10- asbestos regulations in C i n c I n 11 i , because ^e felt that toe evidence incrininstino asbestos was not sufficient. Well, we only bad two major c ecu pa t i e r. a ! health I aws in this country, the l.'a 1 sh - Hea 1 y Act, i ;h | believe was passed in lc*-, and with a few a - e n events repaired urea arced until Cece^Ler o' 1S 70 , and the Occupational Safety and 11 e a 1 c h Act. The Occupation Safety and Health Act. for which the unions had lobbied for ranv years, and has the possibility of turnino the situation around - but when you have a group understaffed as nuch as GSHA is to inspect that many work places, one realizes that the orocle^ is almost insurmountable. At this point there's only one enforcement acency in the federal government, and that is the Occupational Safetv and Health Administration, which is part of the itaart-rr t of Labor. They have some forty industrial hyaienists. approximately that number, to inspect some four million work places. M A,r : OS IT A docs not have the. inspectors to put around, not only in the metropolitan area, but nationwide-. The- inspectors that they do have, I doubt if 1 would be ahlq to sec inspections on five percent of my work in hew York City. BA DU PA: The' other prob 1 en - i$ that the government has con tinually tried to attack the asbestos problem on the- basis cf coming up with a number standard for exposure. '.'ell the thing is, you see, about all these standards, whether it's twelve, five, three, six, it doesn't really matter, it's nifty arithma- tic, the real problem is to force management, the asbestos industry, to install equipment with quality controls, so that you know that this eauipment, ventilation equipment, dust control eauinpent, will keep the level of asbestos exposure down automatica l ly. . It seems to me that a technological society should find something that is essential - but it's also risky. You simply spend the time and money to rake sure that it's used in a way that -- there's no reason, for example, in modern society why a stipend for a worker's time and his pay should be his early death . WOflAf: : Exnosure to asbestos is not confined to the wo r 1: place. Asbestos dust filters into city air as buildings ar; fireproofed and car brakes wear down . Although many asbestos products art safe, like tiles and ironinG board covers, and other products in which the asbestos is firmly bound, any AIA-33 -ll- product which produces dust adds billions of fibers to t^t surrounding air. Asbestos insulation is still sore sc or. ci re? rs in ail cut a handful of cities. "a lit. card and joints civc oir fibres ri:r they are cut or sanded. MAI/: Little is kne'./n about the envi ronre"i ?] dares rs cf asbestos, except in t-e vicinity of asbestos rir< s in South Africa. Ho medical studies have yet found h i n her i re i d c 'Tf of asbestos diseases outside the work place There 1 s , '' cp v $ r g r ow i n a concern that asbestos in our air is CO n t r i b u t i ' c to the higher iincidence of 1 una cancer already feu n d arenr u r : r r c '-"t 11 e r s MAM: It's not just a matter of the unions be, i no concerned prooerly with the lie* a 1th of the workers, but' real 1 v it affects the entire city. The. best illustration of that is \.uat : with the... MAN: Frank Schonfield, Painters Union, Mow York. SC HOI .'FIELD: ...asbestos which is sorayed on the steel for Insulation purposes causes cancer. Now they've discontinued it. However, in these new buildings they have a drooped cielino, and there's a state between the droooed cicling and the concrete and the steel, and this so?ce is used as a return for the air in the air-conditionina system. Now over a ported of time, as this asbestos, you know, drops off as fine dust, this is sucked into the air-conditioning system and the people working in that office, or visiting in that office are subifet to breathing in this asbes tos . MAH: ...laboratories, ten specimens of lungs of the aeneral population were taken in, everybody that came to autopsy in a consecutive series, so that there was no bias as to hew the in dividual was chosen. And every individual had some asbestos fibers in his lungs. And that's to be expected, because subsequent 1 we've gone out and measured the quantity of asbestos in the air: in fact, we had a study funded by the National Air Pollution Con trol Administration to evaluate the asbestos levels across t h tUnited States, and we found asbestos in every major metropolitan area, in a wide variety of concentrations. In some of chose cir cumstances you could actually see that there were excessive expo sures due to the presence of industry, or some other source in that city. You may recall when you see a high rise office building con structed, that they would fireproof that building with a spray material, which in flew York City had contained asbestos. That AIA-33 -12- process where they put this material or :hc steel work was a very inefficient one. as much oe t hashestcs was s n r a v o c cut into the environ rent. You saw snow f s 1 Is on " <=* c i sor Avr.rur . or Park Avenue, or vne never you i -mo nc- a r a *n i r !TM rise const ".c;icr That procedure. as o * ^ebruarv 2ft h o f "his year , h c s be-?- banned, you can t snrav asbestos in '. c w York Citv, r.cr i- E.cstc"', P h i I a c t i c h i a , tor S t a t c of M I i r c i s , hut you still err. I - ether cities in the L n i t e d States, arc: it still is a o r c b 1 c r- e ! s * .-he. re . As a result of that procedure, we. had race sore messure rents of the asbestos levels in the city arourd hioh rise construction sites, and fount1 it in excess of a hundred tires of that measured away from those sites. MAN: No one knows, for example, how ma'ny fibers you hove to breathe in to t r i c o e r off the- r. c c ` o r i s r> that \ o u 1 c-' ecus-: a c : M to go wild and a rrthethe 1 i onn . Moth * the 1 i era has c t : r. !;r c1 to occur in vion^n whose only exposure to asbestos '..'as that they washed their work clothes in which their husbands care bore. Cases of children with asbestos ocisc-nine who died of r^thathe1iona. Cases of people whose only known exposure to asbestos was that they lived in close oroxinity to shipyards '-.'here asbestos materials were beinc used to rake twine. No one's Qcino to know- what the effect of all this sera vine in urban areas, soraying of asbestos on insulating n a t e r i ? 1 s in skyscrapers, will be until about the year 2 C 2 C . MANAS 0 P,S I'.Y : . . . ( I MAUD I 3LE-COVERED BY SOUNDS)... MAN: ...net a question of leaving the trade, you cor 1 t leave the trade. i mean, work has cot to be produced, work, has cot tc be done. What you have to do is to make the work safe. KAN: The money, that's why they do it, the money, the money. MAN: Weil, yes, the workers are being conditioned to be very cynical and skeptical. MAN: Production, production, production. MAH: ...over the years,, .worker.. .hoped it might be better for his kids... MAN: The whole attitude is bad, and sorethinc should be done about it. And, you know, they really believe, if nothinc ultimate is done about it... AIA-33 - 1 3* MAh' : Every member, like, even i n our ) oc a 1 , just look it up, and you'll see the rate of death nearly ? V e r v r c r. t - , you cot two. three - these arc, all vounc Deo:1e. e ; ; f- a r c- 21 ] in their , say, early fifties and earl y s i x t i e s rh -1 ' s net SO old. M AN : Twenty-five years in this bus in e s s t h e v s ^ o u ' d null you out. MAN : There isn't too much you can do. 1 mean, tl- ' o z u r us the only thing to do is get out of the b u s i ness 1 ' r, at car, 1 do at my age ? MAI-: : My concern is to make the work place safe sc you con't go to a guy and say, okay, we get fifty extra bucks, although you're going to die sir, months from new. or a year f r o " nr.<; . It's a terrible re theti , that wc- use humans as ru ; c : - s v;' : v; e should be using, really, guinea Digs. All tc ccr ok-cy is guilty until proved Inrocc-nt. Every substance the. t's introducer i r the work place, or to the environme n t in general, should be- proven safe. It should be uo to the consumers or the workers tc evaluate. MAM: ...kill half the world, what's the difference? MAM : We'd like, tc thank ' rs. `.'icholson, Maxwc- 11 '-.'ail! and Irving Zelikoff: trade urierists Tony Mas seei . kick Puradovich . Jack I'ovak and Frank Schonfield: union members Tory Mi Inch, George; Pritchard, Charles Kv.-e stich. Mike Stiff, and Pete- Senders, and writer Paul Cadura for their contributions to this prog ran. WOMAN: This program was produced by Nick Eagleson and Bonnie Bellow, with technical direction by David P.apkin, and musical direction by James Orsay. MAH: Listen, to make a buck they'll kill half the wcrle. what's the difference? NICK EAGLESON: My name is Nick Eaaleson. BONNIE BELLGV.': This is Bonnie Bel low. EACLESON: We're in the studio new, and this nart of the program is live. We're interested in taking calls from people that have had ether experience with industrial health and safety problems. l.'t' re curious v:hat other issues cum-, t to explored on radio. Our number is area code 2 1? 37 1 ? - ~~ be BELLOW: So if there are people who have heard the nrccren and are Interested in calling up and discussing either this AIA-33 - U- issue, the asbestos issue, or any other cn the job that involved the health and the job, please, we'd i i *> e very rL,c.h tc talk about it. kind of related nrc: ier safety of workers o' .hear fro'" you en,: to E A G L S 0 ' : This is V'SA 1 , a n d you 1 re. on the a i r You're on the air. Hc 1 1 o ? MAli: Yes. I'n a construction worker r y $ e 1 f , I just wanted to bring cut one or two t h i n r s . . . { I ' ' U C 1 E L E ) . . . E A G L E S C11 : Cl: ay, oc ahead. (`.AH: ''umber one, here in ' c w York they c) a i n that they "'cn use asbestos any no re, they have this substance called Caoco d * . flow this substance is rc.c'.t cut of an ire! fiber, (CALLS Ok P.EST Of PROGr.AV CC!.C EF.'-'EC CTi'EO $ I'SSTAJ'C E S ) oi