Document mbD8bgOGvMdbGgxXxkBagrw60

> 1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS 3 BEAUMONT DIVISION 4 MARIE B. SOIGNET, ET AL . * 5 * CIVIL ACTION 6 VS. 7 * NO. B-86-1193 * 8 MONTELLO, INC., ET AL . .* 9 10 DEPOSITION OF 11 JOHN LESTER MYERS 12 Novembe/* 4*, 1988 13 8181 Airport Boulevard 14 Houston, Texas 15 Reported by: V 16 Joyce Ann Smith, RPR, CM 17 Texas CSR No. 2463 18 Louisiana CSR No. 83083 19 Nell McCallum & Associates, Inc. 20 87 IH 10 North, Suite 111 21 Beaumont, Texas 77707 22 Taxable Cost: $ 23 Charged to Hon. Daniel J. Caruso________________________ __J 24 Attorney for Plaintiffs 25 j ! -/ .i ; _ , h '-yt \ ' ." / j NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013184 2 1 Appearances: 2 3 For the Plaintiffs: 4 HON. DANIEL J. CARUSO 5 of the Law Firm of 6 Simon, Peragine, Smith & Redfearn 7 30th Floor - Energy Centre 8 1100 Poydras Street 9 New Orleans, Louisiana 70163-3000 10 and 11 HON. DAVID L. LANDRY 12 151 St. Joseph Street 13 P. O. Box 1185 14 Thibodaux, Louisiana 70302 15 16 For Montello, Inc.: 17 HON. SANDRA F. CLARK ' ' 18 and 19 HON. GENE M. WILLIAMS 20 of the Law Firm of 21 Mehaffy, Weber, Keith & Gonsoulin 22 2615 Calder Avenue 23 P. O. Box 16 24 Beaumont, Texas 77704 25 and NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. ' UCAREF00013185 3 1 HON. ANDREW S. HARTMAN 2 Attorney at Law 3 First National Tower 4 Suite 3401 5 Tulsa, Oklahoma 74013 6 For Atlas Corporation: 7 BON. D. ALLAN JONES 8 of the Law Firm of 9 Orgain, Bell & Tucker 10 470 Orleans Street 11 Beaumont, Texas 77701 12 For Union Carbide Corporation: 13 HON. JOHN G. BISSELL 14 of the Law Firm of 15 Strong, Pipkin, Nelson & Bissell V 16 14th Floor, San Jacinto Building 17 595 Orleans Street 18 Beaumont, Texas 77701 19 For Sun Exploration & Production Company: 20 HON. WILLIAM J. TAYLOR, JR. 21 of the Law Firm'of 22 Taylor & Taylor 23 Ten Penn Center Plaza, Suite 811 24 1801 Market Street 25 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013186 4 1 For Drilling Specialities Company: 2 HON. EUGENE C. MARSHALL 3 Attorney at Law 4_ Phillips Petroleum Company 5 6330 West Loop South 6 P. 0. Box 1967 7 Houston, Texas 77251-1967 8 For Milwhite Company, Inc., and Barium Supply 9 Company: 10 HON. KENT ADAMS 11 of the Law Firm of 12 Adams, Duesler & Carrington 13 550 Fannin, Suite 830 14 P. O. Box 7505 15 Beaumont, Texas 77726-7505 V 16 For Vinnell Corporation and Vinnell Mining & 17 Minerals Corporation: 18 HON. JAMES M. HARRIS 19 of the Law Firm of 20 Holmes & Harris 21 1220 San Jacinto Building 22 Beaumont, Texas 77701 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013187 5 1 In attendance: 2 HON. JOE GUYTON 3 of the Law Firm of 4 Weitinger & Tucker " 5 1200 Cashco Tower 6 8 Greenway Plaza 7 Houston, Texas 77046 8 *** 9 Deposition of JOHN LESTER MYERS, a witness 10 called by Plaintiffs on November 4, 1988, at Hobby 11 Airport Hilton, Cancun- Room, 8181 Airport Boulevard, 12 Houston, Texas, commencing at 10:30 a.m., before 13 Joyce Ann Smith, RPR, CM, Texas CSR No. 2463, 14 Louisiana CSR No. 83083, pursuant to the following 15 stipulations: V 16 COURT REPORTER: What would you 17 like to do on stipulations? 18 MR. CARUSO: For all purposes 19 under the Rules. 20 Sir, you have the right to read 21 and sign this deposition when it's 22 done, when it is made into a book 23 form, and make whatever corrections 24 you think are appropriate when you 25 review it, or you can waive that right NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013188 6 1 on the assumption that she will take 2 what you say down, take it down . 3 accurately. That's your right as a 4 witness in this case. If you want to 5 consult with one of the many attorneys 6 here, you can do so. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: I think you 8 probably would like to read and sign 9 it. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, I would. 11 MR- WILLIAMS: You can send it to 12 Ms. Clark and we will make 13 arrangements to get it to him for 14 signing before a notary public and 15 returned. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013189 7 1 JOHN LESTER MYERS, 2 having been duly sworn, testified as follows, to wit: 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. CARUSO: 4 Q. Would you state your full name for the 5 record, please. 6 A. John Lester Myers. 7 Q. Where do you live, Mr. Myers? 8 A. In King City, California. 9 Q. What is your address there? 10 A. 102 River Drive. 11 Q. By whom are. you presently employed? 12 A. By KCAC, Incorporated. 13 Q. In what position with KCAC? 14 A. President. 15 Q. What is the business of KCAC? V 16 A. The mining, milling, marketing of 1 / c'hrysotile asbestos. `* * 18 Q. What is your educational background? 19 A. I have a bachelor in chemical engineering, 20 Bachelor of Science in chemical engineering. 21 Q. Prom what university? 22 A. From Purdue University. 23 Q. The KCAC, what do those initials stand 24 for? 25 A. They don't stand for anything. It was NELL MC CALLUM a ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013190 8 1 incorporated that way. 2 Q. Do you know who the principal shareholder 3 is of KCAC? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Who is that? 6 A. Wilbur-Ellis Company. 7 Q. Does Union Carbidehave anyinterest in 8 KCAC at this time? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Does Montello Corporation have any 11 interest in KCAC? - 12 A. No. 13 Q. When did you becomepresident of KCAC? 14 A. In July of 1985. 15 Q. Is that the time the company was formed or V 16 was it in existence before that time? 17 A. It was incorporated for that purpose, to 18 purchase the business. 19 Q. Where is the mine located? 20 A. In San Benito, California -- or San Benito 21 County in California. ' 22 Q. From what entity did KCAC purchase mines 23 that it operates now? 24 A. From Union Carbide Corporation. 25 Q. How many mining sites are we talking about NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013191 9 1 that KCAC purchased from Onion Carbide? 2 A. One. 3 Q. That's the one that's located in San 4 Benito County, California? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Prior to your employment with KCAC, by 7 whom were. you employed? 8 A. By Onion Carbide Corporation. 9 Q* How long were you employed by Onion 10 Carbide? 11 A. For 34 years. 12 Q. Beginning in 1951 up through 1985? 13 A. Right. 14 Q. Was this at Onion Carbide in California? 15 A. Partly. At various locations. V 16 Q. Give me a resume of your job history with 17 Onion Carbide while you were employed there. 18 A. I started in 1951 in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 19 Q. In what capacity? 20 A. In various technical and supervisory roles 21 in the process that was operated at Oak Ridge, 22 Tennessee 23 Q. What process was that? 24 A. This was the gaseous diffusion process for 25 uranium enrichment. Transferred from there to the NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013192 10 1 same type of operation in Paducah/ Kentucky. 2 Q. About what year would that have been? 3 A. I transferred in 1952 and was there until 4 1966 . 5 Q. I take it in that period from 1952 to 6 1966, there would have been some type of upward 7 movement in your job, some type of supervisory 8 positions? 9 A. Yes. I was in charge of different kinds 10 of operations in the two operations, both in Oak 11 Ridge and Paducah, all- of them in the same area of 12 engineering or supervisory responsibilities. 13 Q. In 1966, where did you move to? 14 A. I transferred to Niagara Falls, New York, 15 to the asbestos group located in Niagara Falls. 16 Q. What was the asbestos group in Niagara 17 Falls? - 18 A. The group there was responsible for 19 research and development of asbestos products for 20 different applications. 21 Q. What was your position within that group? 22 A. I was called a research engineer. 23 Q. When you arrived there in 1966 to work 24 with the asbestos group, what type of products - 25 what type of asbestos products was Union Carbide NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013193 11 1 developing at that time? 2 A. Well, the products were in existence being 3 produced. They were just short-fiber chrysotile 4 asbestos fibers. 5 Q. Was Onion Carbide producing any finished 6 asbestos products, such as wallboards or tiles or 7 anything like that? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 Q. was it the business of the asbestos group 10 when you arrived in 1966 to determine the 11 applications that could be used with regard to the 12 short-fiber chrysotile asbestos fibers you were 13 producing ? 14 A. That was the basic function of the group, 15 y es. V 16 Q. When you arrived there in 1966, who was 17 the person in charge of that group? 18 A. I believe that would have been Hal 19 Reichard. 20 Q. How are you sayingHowell? 21 A. Hal, H-A-L. ' 22 Q. H-A-L. Reichard? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. R-E-I-C-K-E-R-T? 25 A. I think, C-H-A-R-D. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013194 12 1 Q. What title did he have? 2 A. i don't remember. 3 Q. When we talk about a group, how many 4 individuals are we talking about in this group? 5 A. I would guess eight or ten, probably. 6 Q. What would be the various disciplines 7 involved within the group? Without having to tell me 8 who the people were, what type of disciplines were at 9 work in this group? 10 A. What do you -mean? 11 Q. Whether they were engineering, whether 12 there were people with medical disciplines, 13 engineering disciplines, scientific background? How 14 did it break down, if you can recall? 15 A. As I recall, there were primarily V 16 engineers, technicians. I don't know the backgrounds 17 of the people. 18 Q. Was there a marketing arm of this group? 19 A. NO. 20 Q. How long were you with this group? 21 A. For about a little over one year. 22 Q. What type of applications were proposed by 23 Union Carbide for the use of this short-fiber 24 chrysotile asbestos when you arrived there in 1966? 25 A. I don't recall that any -- I would put it NELL MC CALLUM 4 ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013195 13 1 in that fashion that they were proposed. There were 2 people looking into an application in the paper 3 industry. As I recall, that was the main application 4 that they had been looking at. 5 Q. When you arrived there in 1966, was there 6 an application for this asbestos in the oil field 7 industry? 8 A. I don't know whether it was there 9 beforehand, but that was during my time there, that 10 was one of the applications. 11 Q. To determine the application, was some 12 type of testing done by this group to make that 13 determination? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What was the oil field application of the V 16 short-fiber chrysotile asbestos? 17 A. The application was to thicken drilling 18 fluids. 19 Q. What was the source of the asbestos that 20 we're talking about here? You all had a mine at that 21 time? - 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Where was it? 24 A. in San Benito,California. 25 Q. Same mine we have been talking about NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013196 14 1 before ? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you know when it was that Union Carbide 4 purchased that mine? 5 A. Well, you don't purchase a mine. The mine 6 was -7 Q. Okay. Gained control of the mine? 8 A. The mine was discovered and certain 9 options were taken, some property was purchased, 10 other parts of it were leased. 11 Q. Do you know when that whole process began? 12 A. As I understand it, the mine was 13 discovered in 1959, and I assume that's when the 14 process began of acquiring the properties. 15 Q. When the determination was made that this V 16 product was useful as a thickener in drilling fluid, 17 how did that get from the lab out into the general - 18 out into the oil field purchasing public? 19 A. At that time, Union Carbide had other 20 products going into the oil field application, and as 21 I recall, the contact was made with that group for a 22 marketing-type approach to introduce the product. 2 3 Q. So, you fellows, or ladies and gents, 24 determined that this had an application for oil field 25 use. Then you contacted the marketing people NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013197 15 1 someplace and hit upon a program to get it out into 2 the oil patch? 3 A. it was determined that it might have an 4 application in that field, and then that would have 5 been determined by the marketing approach to see if 6 it did fit that application. 7 Q. Where was the marketing arm of this 8 operation? Was that in Niagara, too, or was that 9 someplace else? 10 A. No, it was located in New York, in the 11 Union Carbide headquarters. 12 Q. Just to make sure we have this straight, 13 was this product -- was a product produced by Union 14 Carbide for use in the oil field already being 15 marketed when you arrived at the product group in 16 1966, or was this something you all developed when 17 you were there? 18 A. The marketing group was not -- I was not 19 in the marketing group. 20 Q. My question was: Was Union Carbide 21 already marketing -- - 22 (OFF-RE.CORD DISCUSSION) 23 BY MR. CARUSO: 24 Q. When you arrived at the marketing group in 25 1966 -- ' NELL -MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013198 16 1 A. I was not in the marketing. 2 Q. Excuse me, when you arrived at the -- what 3 did you call this thing? 4 A. Research. - 5 Q. Research and development group in 1966, 6 was this asbestos product already out in the market, 7 or is this something you developed when -- you and 8 the people there developed while you were there? 9 A. It was developed, the idea was developed 10 while I was there. 11 Q. Did Union Carbide market this product 12 under some type of trade name? 13 A. The trade name of the product, of the 14 asbestos products of all of them was Calidria, 15 Calidria Asbestos. I'm not sure when that trade name %> 16 was initiated, but as far as I can remember, it was 17 -- well, I'm not sure when the Calidria trade name ' 18 began to be used, but it would have been in that time 19 f rame. 20 Q. In Answers to Interrogatories that Union 21 Carbide has submitted in this case, the answer 22 states: "From 1963 until 1985, Union Carbide mined 23 and sold short-fiber chrysotile asbestos under the 24 trade name Calidria." 25 Does that strike you as being accurate, NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013199 Report 34-70 Page 5 labia 34-22 Tracheal Insufflation to Rata Sacrificed 180 Papa After Doslnt TOTAL NUMBER EXAMINED GROSSLY: LUNG: Number Examined Edema Pneumonia Atelectasla Emphysema ' Emphysema Atelectasis Inhalation pneumonia Interstitial pneumonia ' Abscess bronchopneumonia . Suppurative bronchiectasis ' Acute bronchitis Lymphoid cell accumulations Foam call accumulations Fibrotic foreign body tissue Granulation tissue foci Fink hyalin material Bluish homogeneous material Numerous mononuclear cells Mucoid infiltration Proliferation bronchiole epithelium LIVER: Number Examined Bile duct proliferation Round cell foci KIDNEY: Number Examined Hydronephrosis Sand calculi Hydronephrosis Sand calculi Dilated tubules Pink casts Interstitial nephritis Cellular infiltration Slight tubular regeneration - Moderate tubular regeneration TRACHEA: Number Examined Acute tracheitis Chronic tracheitis Ml of IT Solution 1 0.5 . 0.0 46 00 4 6 (c) 2 0 (C) 4 5 5 5 1 1 <G) 2 0 1 (C) 0 0 1 00 1 2 1 00 41 0 00 1 0 0 0!) 0 4 0 00 0 0 1 00 1 0 0 CM) 0 0 1 CM) 3 0 0 00 2 1 3 00 4 6 0 00 0 1 0 00 2 0 0 CM) 3 1 0 00 1 0 0 00 2 0 0 CM) 0 0 1 CM) 4 6 5 CM) 0 2 1 00 1 0 CM). . -4 6- 0 5 CC> 0 1 0 CC) 0 1 0 CM) 0 1 0 CM) 0 1 0 CM) G 2 2 00 0 2 1 CM) 0 1 0 CM) 0 1 0 . 00 CM) 01 00 3 1 CM) 4 6 5 CM) 1 0 0 CM) 0 4 0 The following tissues were examined microscopically on all animals: Lung, Liver, Kidneys, Heart, Spleen, Adrenal, Thyroid, Parathyroid, Trachea end Esophagus. c. - Cross M - Microscopic A23732 *" U CAR E F00013349 18 1 Q. So that you understand my question -- if 2 you know, and believe me, if you don't know, you just 3 tell us, it's no problem. But was there an 4 organization within Onion Carbide in the sixties, 5 let's say starting in the sixties, after this product 6 was developed, of men who were out in the field 7 contacting drilling mud companies or oil companies to 8 sell the product, taking orders for the product if 9 they were successful in their sales endeavors, and 10 then able to transport this product to the customers 11 who wanted it? 12 A. That would not have been -- there was no 13 sales to the drilling mud industry from the 14 beginning. Those were developed -- I think the first 15 production of product for that was in 1968. 16 Q. Who was it being sold to before 1968? 17 A. For the drilling mud application? 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. No one that I know of. 20 Q. Did you sell this stuff between '63 and 21 '68? Was it sold to anyone? 22 A. Oh, yes. 23 Q. Who was buying it? 24 A. Various customers in the paper industry, 25 the floor tile industry. NELL MC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013201 19 1 0. What you're saying is the earliest oil 2 field application that you know of began in 1968? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Okay. Now, in 1968, when this product .5 began being sold for use in the oil field, was it 6 sold directly by Union Carbide to the mud companies 7 or the oil companies? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 Q. How was it sold? 10 A. As far as I remember and am aware, all 11 sales were made through Montello Corporation first 12 starting in 1968. If there were any sales directly 13 prior to that time, I'm not aware of it and don't 14 remember it. 15 Q. So, beginning in 1968, Montello was V 16 selling this product, this Union Carbide product into 17 the oil field? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Can you tell us, do you know - 20 A. Let me -- 21 Q. Go ahead. * 22 A. The production was started in 1968 of the 23 product for the oil field, whether it was actually 24 sold in that year, it could have been the following 25 year; but the production was started in 1968. . NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013202 20 1 Q. By 1968, you had moved on to the asbestos 2 processing mill? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Were you privy in any fashion to any 5 discussions or negotiations between Montello and 6 Union Carbide by which the business arrangement was 7 made for Montello to sell this product? 8 A. I was involved to some extent, more later 9 years rather than in the early years. 10 Q. Well, what was your involvement at the 11 earliest time? 12 A. As I remember, I visited Montello with 13 Union Carbide marketing representatives to discuss 14 the potential application of Union Carbide's asbestos 15 product in the drilling mud industry. % 16 Q. Was this meeting initiated by Union 17 Carbide or was it initiated by Montello, if you can 18 .recall? 19 A. I don't recall. 20 Q. Do you know who the marketing man from 21 Union Carbide was who attended this meeting? 22 A. The name that I remember is Pat Colpoys. 23 Q. Is he still with Union Carbide? 24 A. I don't know. 25 Q. Do you know where he is now? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. ' UCAREF00013203 21 1 A. NO. 2 Q. Who from Montello was at that initial 3 meeting, do you recall? . 4 A. Well, as I remember, it probably would 5 have been Ken Campbell, perhaps Harry Wyatt. 6 Q. Can you tell us what was the substance of 7 the discussions of that meeting with Hr. Campbell and 8 possibly Mr. Wyatt? 9 A. No, I don't remember. 10 Q. Do you know approximately what year it was 11 that the meeting took place? 12 A. No. I can only assume that it was 1968. 13 Q. Would this meeting have been to discuss 14 the possibility of Montello marketing this product? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Was the actual agreement between Montello 17 and Union Carbide for Montello to market the produce 18 struck at this first meeting? 19 A. I don't recall. 20 Q. Eventually, though, Montello did become a 21 seller of this Union Carbide product; is that 22 correct? 23 A. For the drilling industry, yes. 24 Q. Was Montello the only company that sold the Union Carbide asbestos product to the oil field? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013204 22 1 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 2 Q. Now, besides being at that initial meeting 3 in 1968, what other contact did you have with 4 Montello once the agreement -- once the original 5 agreement to sell the product was reached? 6 A. During what period of time? 7 Q. well, what's the next contact? Let's put 8 it that way. 9 A. I wouldn't recall anything specific. it 10 probably would have been several years, perhaps, 11 although there may have been infrequent meetings or 12 discussions. I don't recall anything specifically. 13 Q. Well, to get the product from the mine to 14 the ultimate Montello customer involves several 15 steps, I would imagine. First of all, the product > 16 has to be put in some type of container, such as a 17 bag or something, for it to be sold; is that correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who was it who determined the type of bag, 20 the size of bag, the lettering on the bag, the name 21 on the bag that would ultimately contain this 22 product? 23 A. That would have, I am sure, been 24 discussions between Union Carbide representatives and 25 Montello representatives. NEU. MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UGAREF00013205 23 1 Q. Who at union Carbide, other than yourself. 2 would have been involved in those discussions? 3 A. Probably more the marketing people for our 4 asbestos products; and I'm sure plant personnel, 5 plant management would have been involved in the type 6 of packaging. 7 Q. Do you know who any of these marketing 8 people might be that you're talking about? Can you 9 identify some of them for us? 10 A. The one I remember who was -- I think he 11 was called marketing manager -- was Norman Setter. 12 Q. Setter? 13 A. Like in dog, yes. 14 Q. Do you know where Mr. Setter is today? 15 A. No, I don't know. > , 16 Q. Was he at California, where he resided at 17 the time' you knew him? 18 A. No, in New York. 19 Q. New York. 20 By 1967 or so, you were at the asbestos 21 processing mill, you said.' 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Where is that located? 24 A. As I said before, near King City, 25 California NELL NIC CALIUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013206 24 1 Q. would you have been involved in any way in 2 the delivery of the asbestos that was being bagged 3 for Montello? 4 A. I don't recall that r was involved. You 5 mean in the packaging? I was at the mill, but I 6 don't recall any specific involvement with Montello's 7 product versus other products. 8 Q. What would have been your job at the 9 asbestos processing mill beginning in 1967? 10 A. The main purpose of my being transferred 11 was to assist in the development of a production of a 12 new product, a treated product that was going to be 13 -- had been developed in Niagara Falls and was going 14 to then be produced in King City. 15 Q. What product was that? V 16 A. It's called RG 244. 17 Q. What is RG 244? 18 A. It's a treated asbestos product used for 19 thixotropic purposes in resin systems. 20 Q. Define thixotropic for me. 21 A. Thixotropic -- thixotropy has the ability 22 to cause material, a liquid, to be thin when it has 23 no energy being applied to it or to be thick when 24 it's -- I'm sorry, to be thin when energy is applied 25 to it and to be thick when it is not; such as I NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013207 25 1 usually use a description of DuPont Lucite wall paint 2 that in a can looks very thick but if you put a brush 3 in it, you are putting some energy into it and it is 4 thin enough to apply a coat of paint. 5 Q. So, your job at the asbestos processing 6 mill beginning in 1967 was really developmental in 7 nature, to develop a new product and not to actually 8 be involved in the day-to-day running of this mill? 9 A. I was called technical superintendent. I 10 was in charge in that job, in addition to starting up 11 the operation of this .site facility, to be 12 responsible for the laboratory operations. I can't 13 recall any other thing specific. 14 Q. Who was the person who was just in charge 15 of day-to-day seeing to it that the orders got filled V 16 and everything got going in the direction it was 17 supposed to go m? 18 A. You mean like the plant manager? 19 Q. Yes, the plant manager. 20 A. It was John Riddle. 21 Q. How long did you stay with the asbestos 22 processing mill? 23 A. I am still with the asbestos processing 24 mill. 25 Q. Under new ownership? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013208 26 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. That's where you were -- when your job at 3 Union Carbide ended in 1985, you were still at th.e 4 mill, you were there continuously from '67 to '85? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Therewas some other jump-off there 7 someplace? Where did you go? 8 A. In 1970, I transferred back to Niagara 9 Palls. 10 Q. What were you being punished for? What 11 did you do in '70 in Niagara Fall's? 12 A. I wasat that point made marketing manager 13 of Union Carbide's asbestos products. 14 MR. CARUSO: Off the record. 15 V 16 BY MR. CARUSO: (OFF-RECORD DISCUSSION) * 17 Q. You became marketing manager of Union 18 Carbide's asbestos products. Is that a division? 19 A. As I recall, in 1970 the asbestos business 20 was under the mining and metals division of Union 21 Carbide. - 22 Q. So, you went back to Niagara in 1970 and 23 you became the marketing manager for the asbestos 24 products. When you got there in 1970, could you tell 25 us what types of asbestos products Union Carbide was NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . U CAR EF00013209 27 1 marketing? 2 A. The same types that we had been all along, 3 again, under Calidria Asbestos, the producta for 4 floor tile, and drilling fluid applications, and 5 fairly typical -- or typical applications for 6 short-fiber chrysotile, which are very limited, the 7 number of applications.' 8 Q. You mentioned some application in the 9 paper industry. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. So, this product has an application in 12 what, the manufacture of floor tiling? 13 A. In the production of -14 Q. Production of floor tiling? 15 A. -- vinyl asbestos floor tiles. V 16 Q. It has an application in the paper 17 industry. What is its application in the paper 18 industry? 19 A. It doesn't have that application anymore, 20 but it was used in the production of typical bond j 21 paper as what is called a pitch control agent, to 22 remove the tar and resins that are in the wood used 23 to make paper. 24 Q. We know what the application in the 25 drilling industry is. Are there any other NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013210 28 1 applications you can think of for which Union Carbide 2 was marketing this product in 1970 when you arrived 3 in the marketing department? 4 A. i can't remember any specifically in 1970. 5 The applications in general, if that's what you would 6 like. 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. In tape joint compounds, in asphalt 9 roofing materials, and acoustical ceiling tile. As I 10 say, there are probably others that I can't recall 11 that would be typical .-of a short-fiber chrysotile 12 application. 13 Q. How many people did you have working under 14 you as the marketing manager when you took the job in 15 1970? V 16 A. I don't recall the exact number, probably 17 seven or eight or ten, somewhere in that vicinity." 18 Q. Were they divided up geographically, did 19 they have certain areas of the country, or how was 20 their labor divided? 21 A. It was different at various times during 22 ray tenure. At one point, I think the first division 23 of personnel was geographically, and then we made a 24 change and had part of them responsible for sales and 25 others for the more technological or technical NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013211 29 1 aspects of marketing. 2 Q. How long did you hold the job as marketing 3 manager? 4 A. Until 1981. 5 Q. And then in 1981, what happened to you? 6 A. Back to King City, to the mill. 7 Q. You had served your time and they sent you 8 back to King City. 9 In *81, what title did you assume at the 10 mill? 11 A. Product and. production manager. 12 Q. What is the job description for that one? 13 A. I was essentially in charge of -- or I was 14 in charge of the mining and milling operations. 15 Q. Prom the period beginning in 1968 up until V` 16 the time -- I say you left the company, because I 17 know this operation was sold in '85 -- was there any 18 department in Union Carbide that was charged with 19 industrial hygiene responsibilities? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Where was that department located? 22 A. In New York. 23 Q. At the headquarters? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did that department monitor inany fashion NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013212 30 1 the potential health side effects# or deleterious 2 side effects associated with Union Carbide products, 3 and then report those problems to the different 4 people in charge of the responsibility of producing 5 and marketing those products? 6 A. Well, I wasn't in the department, I don't 7 know exactly what their procedure was. We were -- at 8 the plant operation, the industrial hygienists would 9 be in King City periodically. 10 Q. I take it when he came to King City, he 11 was to check the operation at the mine to make sure 12 everything was in line with whatever safety 13 regulations he wanted to see followed; was that his 14 job? 15 A. What he wanted to see followed, or the V 16 safety groups. 17 Q. I want to distinguish here between 18 internal industrial hygiene work, that is the work 19 that the hygienists do within the company to make 20 sure the people who work for the company are being 21 protected, and information "that would have been 22 supplied to Union Carbide by their industrial hygiene 23 group with regard to the possible dangers associated 24 with the products that it was selling and the harm it 25 might cause the public. Was any information being NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013213 31 1 given to you while you were involved with these 2 asbestos products by Union Carbide that any of these 3 products might pose -- these asbestos products might ~ 4 pose a health hazard? J 5 A. In what time frame# now? 6 Q. Beginning in 1968 up until the time you 7 left. . 8 A. Was anything during that period? Yes. 9 Q. Besides what you read in the newspaper# 10 was Union Carbide generating its own information to 11 its people# such as the marketing people when you 12 were marketing man, or when you were in production, 13 whatever# that these asbestos products were a 14 potential health hazard? 15 A. I don't know what you mean by generating V 16 the information, but there was information received - - 17 from them# as well as other sources# not particularly 18 about Union Carbide's products, but about asbestos in 19 general. 20 Q. Do you have any recollection as to when 21 you# personally# when you knew or began to know that 22 there might be health hazards associated with the use 23 of asbestos? 24 A. I can't recall a specific date, but it 25 would have been -- as I recall# would have started NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013214 1 32 1 developing or receiving information and becoming 2 aware of that in the early seventies. 3 Q. Let me show you a letter, a memo that's 4 dated January the 19th, 1968, authored by a gentleman 5 named Paul W. McDaniel, and see if you have any 6 recollection of ever having seen this before 7 (tendering document). 8 A. I can't recall reading this before, but I 9 may have. My name is on the distribution list. 10 Q. This distribution list down here with 11 various names on it, this was how documents were 12 circulated within the Union Carbide organization, if 13 your name appeared on it -- 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. -- you would get a copy of whatever it was V 16 that was being circulated? 17 A. You wouldn't necessarily get a copy, you 18 would be on a circulation list, such as that. 19 Q. This document that we're talking about, is 20 this an internal Union Carbide memo? 21 A. It's marked "Internal Correspondence," 22 yes. 23 Q. Who is Mr. Paul W. McDaniel? 24 A. He was the industrial hygienist. 25 Q. In New York? NELL MC CALLUM ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013215 33 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. You say "the." Was he the head of the-, 3 hygiene department or was he an industrial hygienist? 4 A. He was one or the other. I don't know 5 whether he was head of the department, but he was an 6 industrial hygienist. 7 Q. Did they have more than one in Hew York? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Industrial hygiene people? 10 A. I don't know. 11 ' Q. Who is Mr. John A. Riddle? 12 A. As identifiedearlier, he was the plant 13 manager at the King City operation. 14 Q. In 1968 -- I'm trying to see where you 15 were in 1968. Where were you in '68 -- V. 16 A. In King City. 17 Q. -- that you would have gotten a copy of 18 this? 19 A. At the King City milling operation, and I 20 did not necessarily receive a copy of that. 21 Q. You mean it came across your desk and you 22 bucked it to the next person on the list? 23 A. It was routed, according to that 24 distribution stamp. 25 Q. So, you may never have gotten it? NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013216 34 1 A. As I said, I may have seen it, I don't 2 remember reading it before, but I am on the 3 distribution. 4 Q. Who is L. F. Crow? 5 A. I'm not sure what his title was. He was 6 in charge of the operations at King City. 7 Q. R. O. Marsten? 8 A. He was the plant engineer. 9 Q. King City? 10 A. Yes. And mining superintendent. 11 Q. W. E. Hohapple? 12 A. He was at the mill. I think he was 13 maintenance superintendent. 14 Q. A. A. Andrade? 15 A. I think he was -- I'm not sure what he was V 16 at that time. He was involved with shipping at one 17 poinc. 18 Q. G. C. Brice? 19 A. He was also in maintenance. 20 Q. Of the mine? 21 A. Of the milling operation. 22 Q. K. A. Wood? 23 A. He was officemanager. 24 Q. D. S. Kamens? 25 A. He was laboratory supervisor. NEU MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013217 35 1 Q. K. West? 2 A. He was purchasing. 3 Q. There is a name here I can't quite make 4 out. It's "G." and then the last name is 5 E-S-S-E-L-S, with a letter in front of it I can't 6 make out. 7 A. Vessels. 8 Q. Vessels. What was Mr. or Ms. Vessels' 9 job? 10 A. He was like the accountant in the office. 11 Q. It says here "Originating Dept. Medical." 12 What was the medical department? Was that part of 13 the hygiene department? 14 A. As I recall, it was the other way around. 15 I think industrial hygiene was under the medical V 16 department, under Union Carbide's medical department. 17 Q. Union Carbide had a medical department in 18 New York? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What was the function or role of the 21 medical department at Union Carbide? 22 A. I couldn't respond, other than what would 23 be true of any corporation, I suppose, that had a 24 medical department. They were responsible for giving 25 physicals or guaranteeing that people had their NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013218 36 1 physicals, probably maintained a library. I don't 2 know. I wasn't in the department. . 3 Q. What I'm trying to get to, to shortcut all 4 this stuff, is: Was there a system within Union 5 Carbide's organization -- and we will just pick 1968 6 since that's when this memo is dated, up until 1985, 7 where the medical department or the industrial 8 hygienists were routinely monitoring studies that 9 were ongoing, learning about possible problems with 10 the products, and then disseminating that information 11 to the various department heads who might be 12 interested in that? . 13 A. Yes. I don't know how well organized it 14 was or whether it was -- I forget the term you used 15 -- but I assume that there would be people doing V 16 that, not only medical department but other groups, 17 depending on what the product -- what product was 18 involved. 19 Q. Now, that memo that we've been talking 20 about, which I will mark in a minute, talks about the 21 association between crocidolite and mesothelioma. Do 22 you want to verify that for me? 23 A. Yes, it does. 24 Q. And since I don't have it in front of me, 25 I think it also talks about the fact that the NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013219 t 37 1 relationship between chrysotile and mesothelioma is 2 not established yet, or it says something like that 3 in that letter, does it not? 4 A. it says it's not clear. 5 Q. Not clear. But this letter does in fact 6 alert anyone who did receive it to the fact that 7 asbestos has at least some potential for 8 carcinogenesis? does it not? 9 A. I don't think it says that. It says that 10 the crocidolite and mesothelioma, the relationship 11 seems clear -- or seems established. But as it says, 12 the relationship between chrysotile and cancer or 13 mesothelioma is not clear. ' 14 MR. WILLIAMS: You said cancer. 15 Did you mean chrysotile? V 16 THE WITNESS: I mean chrysotile. 17 MR. CARD SO: Let's mark this for 18 me as Myers No. 1, would you, please. 19 (WHEREUPON DOCUMENT ON THE 20 LETTERHEAD OF UNION CARBIDE 21 CORPORATION,' DATED JANUARY 19, 1968, 22 ADDRESSED TO MR. JOHN A. RIDDLE, FROM 23 PAUL W. MCDANIEL, WAS MARKED FOR 24 IDENIFICATION AS MYERS EXHIBIT NO. 1, 25 COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED AT THE I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013220 38 1 CONCLUSION HEREOF) 2 3Y MR. CARUSO: 3 Q. I believe your testimony was earlier that 4 you personally became aware of health problems 5 associated with asbestos sometime in cne early 6 seventies? 7 A. That's the best I could recall. I can't 8 pin down a date, obviously, when I began becoming 9 aware of health problems between asbestos and -- . 10 health problems with asbestos. 11 Q. What were the health problems that you 12 were made aware of? 13 A. During some time span, I became aware of 14 asbestosis and lung cancer and mesothelioma. 15 Q. How were you learning about all these V 16 things? 17 A. I can't remember specifically or recall, 18 but I would say by public -- or published literature; 19 I'm sure internal mailings, such as the letter that 20 is Exhibit 1; probably personal conversations with 21 people. * 22 Q. Were you ever present at any meetings held 23 at Union Carbide to discuss the health hazards 24 associated with asbestos? 25 A. I'm sure I was at meetings where the NCII MP CAI I IIM A ASSOCIATES INC ' UCAREF00013221 39 1 health aspects were discussed. I don't recall any 2 specific meeting to discuss only health hazards. 3 Q. Health - hazards or potential health hazards 4 that might be associated with a product is, among 5 other things, a marketing problem, is it not, as to 6 how you and the marketing department are going to 7 handle that particular problem with your customers? 8 A. That would be a factor in marketing, yes. 9 Q. It would also affect how the product might 10 have to be labeled for sale to the customers with 11 regard to any cautionary wording that has to be 12 placed on the product; is that correct? 13 A. Well, why don't you restate the question. 14 Q. It's a marketing problem in the sense of 15 what are you going to tell people about it and be V 16 accurate about it, and it also raises the question of 17 how you are going to label your products on the 18 packaging, what warnings you are going to put on the 19 packaging; is that correct? 20 A. That would be part of marketing. I'm not 21 sure that marketing would make a decision on what 22 warnings were placed on a package. 23 Q. Well, eventually, cautionary wording was 24 put on the bags, was it not, with regard to asbestos? 25 A. You're talking about -- you're talking NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013222 40 1 about bags of Calidria Asbestos? 2 Q. Yes. ' 3 A. They had a warning on them, yes. 4 Q. Did they have a warning on them as early 5 as 1968? 6 A. That's when a warning was first used was- 7 1968. 8 Q. Let me show you a document which was 9 produced by your attorneys and ask you if the wording 10 that appears on the bottom of that document, the 11 cautionary wording is the wording that was put on the 12 bags in 1968? 13 A. I'm not sure whether this was the warning 14 in 1968 or whether this was the one required by OSHA 15 in 1972. I don't remember which one is which. V 16 Q. Do you remember the wording of the other 17 warning? Is it different than that? " 18 A. That's why I can't tell you, because I 19 don't remember which one this is. They were very 20 similar. Union Carbide, as I say, began in 1968, and 21 then when OSHA developed their rule in 1972, Union 22 Carbide adopted the new wording as prescribed by 23 OSHA. But I cannot remember which one this is. 24 Q. Would you read that wording into the 25 record, please? ____________________________________________________________________ :____________ NEIL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013223 41 1 A. The caution wording or thewhole label? 2 Q. The caution warning. 3 A. It says: "CAUTION ContainsAsbestos 4 Fibers, Avoid Creating Dust, Breathing Asbestos Dust 5 May Cause Serious Bodily Harm." 6 Q. Npw, were you present at any meetings 7 where that wording was discussed as to whether or not 8 it should be put on the bags? 9 A. Not that I recall. 10 Q. Who had the ultimate decision or the 11 ultimate authority to decide what type of wording 12 went on the bags, as far as cautionary wording was 13 concerned? 14 A. I don't remember for sure. I would 15 imagine it would have been probably a joint decision V 16 between the Union Carbide medical department and 17 legal department and the asbestos business group or 18 asbestos department. That would be for the original 19 1968 warning. The use of the other, the new warning 20 in *72 was prescribed by OSHA. 21 Q. What does the phrase "Serious Bodily Harm" 22 mean on this warning? 23 A. What does it mean? 24 Q. Yeah, what does it mean? 25 A. Well, to me, it would mean something done NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013224 42 to the body that was harmful. 2 Q. Does it mean cancer? 3 A. Could be, yes. I would call that a 4 serious bodily harm. 5 Q. How is the guy working out in the field 6 with this stuff supposed to know that serious bodily 7 harm means cancer? 8 MR. WILLIAMS: I don't mean to 9 break in, Mr. Caruso, but you are 10 asking him for a hypothetical as to 11 what somebody else might know, and I 12 don't think that's a proper question, 13 so I'm going to object to it. 14 MR. ADAMS: Further object to the 15 question as leading and calling for V 16 the witness to render an expert 17 opinion with regard to adequacy of * 18 warnings. 19 BY MR. CARD SO: 20 Q. Well, how is the guy in the field supposed 21 to know that serious bodily injury means a 22 distinctive carcinogen? 23 MR. WILLIAMS: Again, we'll 24 restate the same objections, including Mr. Adams'. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013225 43 1 MR. ADAMS: Correct. 2 A. i don't know that the label necessarily 3 would be related to cancer -- or the wording* I mean, 4 would be related to cancer. You asked me what a 5 bodily harm was and I said -- or asked me if cancer 6 would be a bodily harm and I said yes, it would be. 7 How someone else may interpret the label or the 8 wording would be entirely up to them. 9 BY MR. CARUSO: 10 Q. When did you all first know that 11 chrysotile asbestos causes mesothelioma at Union 12 Carbide? 13 A. I don't know that chrysotile asbestos 14 causes mesothelioma. 15 Q. You don't know that personally, or was V 16 that Union Carbide's position that it didn't cause 17 mesothelioma? ' 18 A. I wouldn't speak for Union Carbide's 19 position. In my personal opinion, and I'm obviously 20 not a Medical Doctor, but from what I have read, I 21 don't believe chrysotile asbestos causes 22 mesothelioma. 2 3 MR. CARUSO: Before we go on, 24 would you please mark this as Myers 25 No. 2. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013226 44 1 {WHEREUPON XEROX COPY WITH 2 CAUTIONARY WORDING WAS MARKED FOR 3 IDENTIFICATION AS MYERS EXHIBIT NO. 2; 4 COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED AT THE 5 CONCLUSION HEREOF) 6 BY MR. CARUSO: 7 Q. Sir, are you familiar with a document that 8 bears the title 'Material Safety Data Sheet"? 9 A. I am familiar with some documents that 10 contain that title, yes. 11 Q. What is the.purpose, to your knowledge, of 12 the Material Safety Data Sheet? 13 A. To my knowledge, it was -- I think it was 14 initiated by OSHA for shipyard workers, and the 15 purpose today is to identify the materials which may V 16 create a hazard in the workplace. 17 Q. Did Union Carbide or the Calidria 18 Corporation publish Material Safety Data Sheets with 19 regard to its chrysotile asbestos products? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. While I'm on the subject, what is the 22 Calidria Corporation? 23 A. That was a subsidiary corporation created 24 in 1984, I think, when Union Carbide was reorganizing 25 its entire metals division. Several of the materials NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. - UCAREF00013227 45 1 or products that were produced by the metals division 2 were put into one subsidiary; the asbestos business 3 was put into another one called Calidria Corporation. 4 Q. At some point in time, did you actually 5 become employed by Calidria Corporation? 6 A. For that short -- 7 Q. For that short period? 8 A. For that short period, yes. 9 Q. Who was it at the Calidria Corporation who 10 was charged with the responsibility of preparing the 11 Material Safety Data Sheet? 12 A. I don't know that there was any single 13 person. It would have been probably a joint effort 14 between -- again, between marketing, medical 15 department, and probably the legal department. 16 Q. How often would a Material -- 17 A. Let me add one more. And probably the 18 asbestos business.management. 19 Q. How often would a Material Safety Data 20 Sheet be published on the asbestos products? 21 A. Do you mean when it would be revised? 22 Q. Right. 23 A. I would -- I think it was only revised one 24 or two times, and probably when new information was 25 developed. As I recall, it was revised when the OSHA NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013228 46 1 regulations were revised, so that the information was 2 as current as possible. 3 Q. I know there is a date on this thing and 4 I'm just trying to find it. 5 Let me show you this document, which I 6 will ask the court reporter to mark as Myers No. 3, 7 and ask you if you recognize that as a Material 8 Safety Data Sheet regarding the Calidria Asbestos 9 products. 10 (WHEREUPON DOCUMENT ON THE . e 11 LETTERHEAD OF CALIDRIA CORPORATION 12 ENTITLED "MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET" 13 WAS MARKED FOR IDENIFICATION AS MYERS 14 EXHIBIT NO. 3, COPY OF WHICH IS 15 ATTACHED AT THE CONCLUSION HEREOF) V 16 A. Yes, that is a Material Safety Data Sheet 17 describing Calidria Asbestos. 18 BY MR. CARUSO: 19 Q. Can you tell what year that data sheet was 20 published? 21 A. Well, it says ort the back sheet, December 22 31st, 1984. ' 23 Q. Would that be the publication date for 24 that Material Safety Data Sheet? 25 A. I couldn't answer that. It does say NELL MC CALL'JM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013229 47 1 "Effective Date," so I assume that that's when it was 2 produced and distributed. 3 Q. Once that sheet is made up, to whom is it 4 distributed? 5 A. I can't recall specifically whether these 6 were sent out to customers, but we made a -- they 7 were certainly sent out on request, and they were 8 probably sent out on an annual basis to our customers 9 and distributors as part of an education-type 10 package. 11 Q. And the customer reading' that Material 12 Safety Data Sheet, or the distributor reading that 13 Material Safety Data Sheet, could determine from 14 looking at it what possible health side effects there 15 might be associated with the use of that product? > 16 A. I'm not sure that this would include all 17 of the possible health effects or side effects, but 18 it was put together at the best of Union Carbide's 19 ability to fully describe the short-fiber chrysotile 20 and its potential health effects or hazards. 21 Q. So, that document represents an expression 22 by Union Carbide as to what Union Carbide's belief is 23 with regard to the potential side effects of the 24 product? 25 A. I would assume that in that period of NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013230 48 1 time, it would reflect that feeling, yes. 2 Q. You already testified in your judgment, 3 your belief, that chrysotile asbestos fibers do not 4 cause mesothelioma. Was that your testimony earlier 5 on? 6 A. That is my belief, that the chrysotile 7 does not cause mesothelioma. 8 Q. Okay, under the title "Chronic Effects of 9 Overexposure" in this Material Safety Data Sheet, it 10 says: "Overexposure to chrysotile asbestos has 11 caused damage to lungs (asbestosis), lung cancer and 12 mesothelioma of the pleura and peritoneum." 13 Now, when did Union Carbide, to your 14 knowledge, first come into possession of the fact 15 that this chrysotile asbestos does cause 16 mesothelioma ? 17 A. I would have no idea. 18 Q. Would it have been the policy of Union 19 Carbide to advise its customers and distributors as 20 soon as possible about possible side effects or 21 health effects, once it was known to Union Carbide? 22 A. I would think that would be a general 23 policy. I don't think -- when you say it was known, 24 again, I think the health effects of asbestos have 25 become known over a long period of time, and I don't NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013231 49 1 think they would have distributed something based on 2 perhaps inconclusive evidence. I think they would 3 have made sure that what they were distributing was, 4_ as I said, to the best of their'knowledge the best 5 and most accurate information at the time. To my 6 knowledge, there was never any attempt to hide any 7 information or conceal any information. 8 Q. So, this document here, since it was 9 published by Union Carbide, represents a statement by 10 Union Carbide that it is satisfied that, based on its 11 own search of the literature, investigation, or from 12 whatever source, that the chrysotile asbestos fiber 13 has the potential to cause mesothelioma? 14 A. Based on what it says, that would have 15 been -- that would have been the conclusion, yes. V 16 Q. Now, those Material Safety Data Sheets, as 17 they were published, were they catalogued and kept 18 anywhere in a library of any fashion, so that we 19 could trace them to go from '84 back and see all the 20 Material Safety Data Sheets that apply to this 21 product? 22 A. 1 doubt if there would be any one place, 23 unless it would be the Union Carbide medical 24 department may have kept such a file. 25 Q. Do you have a name in mind of a person who NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013232 50 1 you would identify as the head of the Union Carbide 2 medical department? 3 A. At the present time? . 4 Q. Let's start with the present. 5 A. No, I have no idea. 6 Q. All right. Let's start with the period 7 from 1968 up to 1985. Do you know anybody who held 8 that position? Can you identify them for us? 9 A. I think that Carl Dernehl was the -- I 10 think he was head of the medical department. At 11 least that's a name that I remember in the 1970's. 12 Q. Do you know who the head of the medical 13 department was in 1984 when that Material Safety Data 14 Sheet was prepared? 15 A. No, I don't. Let me say I probably know, 1 6 but I can't recall a name. It's probably in there 17 somewhere. 18 Q. All right. Was any consideration ever 19 given to placing a warning on the bags containing the 20 asbestos products that the chrysotile asbestos caused 21 cancer ? 22 A. I don't recall that that was. Again, I 23 was not involved with developing warning wording. To 24 the best of my knowledge, I don't remember a 25 suggestion like that. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013233 51 1 Q. Were you ever present at any meetings or 2 discussions of any kind, and with anyone, where it 3 was discussed that if it got out into the public that 4 this stuff caused cancer, you would have trouble 5 marketing it? 6 A. No, not that I recall. I think at the 7 time we're talking about, that kind of information 8 was already out. I don't think we had -- there 9 wasn't any attempt to conceal that kind of thing. 10 Q. Well, there had to be some attempt to try 11 to soften the effects of the health hazards 12 associated with the asbestos; was there not? 13 A. What do you mean by "soften"? 14 Q. Well, to sort of assuage people's fears 15 that this stuff might hurt them, so you could sell V. 16 it. 17 A. 1 think the only -- as I recall, the 18 message was that the material can cause lung disease, 19 and therefore should be treated as a material of that 20 kind, but there are ways to use it safely. That was 21 normally the meat of our message was this is an 22 industrial material, like many others, that could 23 cause health problems, and therefore should be used 24 with certain precautions and safety practices. 25 Q. Let me show you a document that we were NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013234 5) 52 1 given by Union Carbide's counsel, a series of papers, 2 and the first one, the first page is entitled -- let 3 me get them in the right order here -- "Questions," 4 and then below it it has "Short and simple answers to 5 difficult questions. Page 1 to 5." And it has no 6 heading or title on it to show where it ever came 7 from, but I want to ask you, have you ever seen these 8 papers before? Just look through all of them. Take 9 your time. 10 A. My answer to your question is no, I'm not 11 familiar with this and- I don't recall ever having 12 seen it before. 13 Q. Thank you. 14 Were meetings held in the marketing 15 department, or by the marketing department, with the V' 16 salesmen to keep them abreast of the developing 17 information regarding health hazards associated with 18 asbestos, and to give them information on what to 19 tell the customers when the subject came up? 20 A. Yes, there would have been meetings, would 21 have been a lot of communications by sending the 22 salesmen literature or whatever. Again, I can't 23 recall a specific meeting to discuss the health 24 hazards, but that obviously, I think, would have been 25 discussed in meetings with sales people. And as I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013235 53 1 said, mailings would have been sent to sales people 2 explaining or passing on different kinds of 3 literature. 4 Q. Did these meetings result in a unified 5 policy by which Union Carbide required its sales 6 people or marketing people to respond to the 7 inquiries regarding the health effects? What I'm 8 saying is: If they ask you this, tell them that; if 9 they ask you this, tell them that; if they ask you 10 this, tell them that? 11 A. I don't recall anything like that, no. 12 Q. Outside of the literature and studies that 13 were being performed in the medical community, was 14 Union Carbide itself involved in any studies or 15 research regarding the health hazards associated with V 16 asbestos? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. When did that begin, if you know? 19 A. I don't know the date. 20 Q. Was it in the sixties or was it in the 21 seventies? - 22 A. Well, I would have to say yes to that. It 23 could have been late sixties or early seventies, I 24 don't recall the dates. 25 Q. Do you know what the nature of the NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013236 54 1 research was? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What was it directed towards? _ 4 A. There were, I would say, very limited 5 studies done at the Mellon Institute on the Union 6 Carbide fiber, both the regular short-fiber 7 chrysotile fiber and the RG 244 product. 8 Q. Did that study result in a written report 9 as to its findings? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Were you favored with a copy of that 12 report? 13 A. I have seen copies, yes. 14 Q. After studying the report, what did it 15 tell you? V 16 A. Basically, that the short-fiber chrysotile 17 that Union Carbide was mining and milling was no 18 different than other forms of chrysotile fiber with 19 regard to its effects in the animals tested. 20 Q. Well, as I read this report, it said that 21 they found that they had several cases of lung 22 collapse, they had emphysema, they had fibrotic 23 foreign body nodules. Is that generally what you 24 expect with all chrysotile asbestos exposure? 25 A. I'm not -- again, I can't speak from a NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013237 55 1 medical terminology, but if that's in the report, i 2 would assume that's what they would expect. As i,, 3 said, as I recallr the conclusion was that the Union 4 Carbide asbestos caused the same types of reactions 5 in the animals. 6 Q. As other asbestos? 7 A. As other chrysotile. 8 Q. Let me show you a report of the -- it's 9 dated, apparently, 9-3-71, and it's entitled 10 "Calidria Asbestos-Resin Grade RG 244 Tracheal 11 Insufflation of Rat Langs with Interpretation of 12 Pathology after 30, 60, 90 and 180 Days." Something 13 you might want to curl up with at night. And ask you 14 if that was the report you were talking about as a 15 result of the Mellon study. And please look at all V 16 of it and take your time. 17 (OFF-RECORD DISCUSSION) ' " 18 A. That is one of the two reports that I 19 mentioned, yes. 20 BY MR. CARUSO: 21 Q. Let me see if I'have the other one. I may 22 have it. Here we go -- no, that's the same one. 23 MR. CARUSO: Would you mark this 24 as Myers No. 4. 25 (WHEREUPON DOCUMENT ENTITLED NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013238 56 1 "CALIDRIA ASBESTOS-RESIN GRADE RG 244 2 TRACHEAL INSUFFLATION OF RAT LUNGS3 WITH INTERPRETATION OF PATHOLOGY AFTER 4 30, 60, 90 AND 180 DAYS," CONSISTING 5 OF SEVEN PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 6 IDENTIFICATION AS MYERS EXHIBIT NO. 4, 7 COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED AT THE 8 CONCLUSION HEREOF) 9 BY MR. CARUSO: 10 Q. You sai d that's one of th<e two reports, 11 that Myer s 4 is on e of. two reports t hat y ou read. 12 you have any recol le ction as to when the second 13 repo rt ca me out? 14 A. No. 15 Q. This on e is dated in 1971 V 16 A. As I sa Y' both of them, t o my knowledge, 17 were done either i n the late sixties or e a r ly 18 seve nt ies . As I r emember, the other one was before 19 this one 20 Q. . Who is Dr . A. E. Pufahl, P-U-F -A-H-L? 21 A. He was -- he was involved with the 22 asbe s tos business in the very early parts of my 23 involverae nt with the business. As I reme mber -- I 24 don 1 t remember what his title was. He wa s more or 25 less an " expert," in quotation marks / in the paper NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013239 57 1 industry application for Union Carbide's asbestos. 2 Q. Do you know who P. R. Cheston was? 3 A. NO. 4 Q. Did you have any dealings yourself with 5 the London offices of Union Carbide? 6 A. I was trying to remember when I was in 7 marketing if I dealt with the London office, but I 8 don't believe I had any direct dealings with them, 9 no. 10 Q. When did Union Carbide join the Asbestos 11 Information Association? ' 12 A. I'm not sure exactly, but in the early 13 seventies, perhaps -- I'm not sure of the date 14 exactly, but it would have been prior to 1975, I 15 think. > 16 Q. What was the purpose of joining that 17 organization? 18 A. I don't know. I wasn't involved with the 19 decision on joining, that I recall. 20 Q. Did you receive or were you copied on or 21 provided with copies of information received from 22 that association? 23 A. In what time period? 24 Q. 1970 -- well, from the time you joined it 25 until the time you left. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCiATES. INC. UCAREF00013240 58 1 A. Yes, I have received quite a bit of 2 information from them, yes. 3 Q. Based on what you learned about asbestos, 4 what you were learning about asbestos, in your 5 position as marketing director from '70 to '84 - 6 marketing manager -- did you think the warning you 7 all were putting on the bags was adequate to tell the 8 people what the dangers were with regard to this 9 stuff? 10 HR. WILLIAMS: Excuse me, I am 11 going t-o object to that. You are 12 asking him for an opinion I think is 13 more proper from an expert. 14 A. Did I think the warning was adequate? 15 BY MR. CARUSO: 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. As counsel says, I'm not an expert in 18 warning labels or wording. I don't recall that I had 19 an opinion whether or not it was adequate. I think 20 the decision was made by people that would have been 21 more expert in that than I'was. There are -- or at 22 the time the knowledge was known, when the warning 2 3 wording was decided, yes, in my opinion that would 24 have been an adequate warning. 25 Q. In 1984, in your Material Safety Data NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013241 59 1 Sheet, you were telling your customers that your 2 product could cause cancer and mesothelioma and - 3 asbestosis and a bunch of other things that's in _ 4 there. Why didn't you all change the labeling to put 5 some of those things on the bags? 6 A. Well, first of all, I don't think those 7 things were telling our customers that our asbestos 8 caused those things. That Material Safety Data Sheet 9 and other information was related to chrysotile 10 asbestos in general, not necessarily Calidria 11 Asbestos. . 12 Q. I'm sorry, Calidria Asbestos is not a 13 chrysotile asbestos? 14 A. Yes, it is. But as I say, the 15 information in there is general to chrysotile V 16 asbestos, so we were telling customers that 17 chrysotile could cause these various diseases. I 18 think mailings such as this are a very good means to 19 get the information to the user. The users, the 20 customers were encouraged to pass this information on 21 to their employees, and I believe that's as good a 22 way or probably a better way than putting a label on 23 a package. 24 Q. In other words, you think it's better to 25 send one of these sheets to one of your distributors, NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . U CAR EF00013242 60 1 who in turn is selling this stuff out into the field, 2 where you say, "Overexposure to Chrysotile Asbestos 3 has caused damage to lungs (asbestosis), lung cancer 4 and mesothelioma of the pleura and peritoneum." You 5 also go on to say which could result in "labored ' 6 breathing, chest pains, weakness, and chest 7 tightness. Pleural thickening, plaques and effusion 8 are nondisabling conditions, seen separately..." You 9 say, "The risk of lung cancer greatly increased for 10 those who smoke cigarettes regularly in addition to 11 having asbestos exposure." That it's much better to 12 send this to your distributor than to take this 13 warning label and put on here "Caution, this may 14 cause cancer," is that what you're telling me? 15 A. No. V 16 MR. WILLIAMS: Excuse me, just a 17 second. You keep saying "you." He 18 testified a little earlier that he was 19 not involved directly with the 20 preparation of that but it came from 21 several different sources, and you and 22 I both know those are prepared based 23 on certain federal criteria. So, to 24 ask him to compare that -- you know, 25 you keep asking "you." That was a NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013243 61 1 joint decision. I think he said he 2 didn't have any input into it. 3 BY MR. CARUSO: 4 Q. Well, as a former employee of Union 5 Carbide, you think it was responsible, a responsible 6 reaction by Union Carbide, that gives you no problem 7 to this day that you were involved in all of this, 8 that you just didn't change the wording and say, you 9 know, "can cause cancer"? I mean, wouldn't you want 10 to know if you were using this stuff? If you would 11 have gotten out in the- field, wouldn't you want to 12 know about that? 13 MS. CLARK: I think you have 14 asked three questions in one. 15 MR. BISSELL: Is all of this 16 argument prefaced on his being a 17 former employee of Union Carbide? 18 MR. CARUSO: Yes. He was the 19 marketing man from 1970 to 1984. 20 MS. CLARK: I don't think there 21 is a question on the table to be 22 answered. I think there are about 23 three or four questions. 24 MR. MARSHALL: I object to the 25 form of the question as multiple. NELL MC CALLUM t> ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013244 62 1 BY MR. CARUSO: 2 Q. Let me go back again, because I'm not so 3 sure I'm cleat about this. You said there probably, 4 as far as your recollection, were two types of 5 wordings that were put on the bags, cautionary 6 wordings, one that predates OSHA and one that came in 7 with or at the time that OSHA was put into effect; is 8 that correct? 9 A. That is true. I am not speculating, that 10 is true. ' 11 Q. That is true. And as far as you recall, 12 this is the OSHA wording I have here on Exhibit 2? 13 A. No, I told you my recollection -- I don't 14 know which one it is. 15 Q. You don't know which one it is, one way or V 16 the other. Okay. 17 We are clear on one thing: Never, ever in 18 the history of the marketing of this asbestos product 19 at any time did Union Carbide ever put on these bags 20 that this product was a carcinogen, or could cause 21 cancer, or wording to that'effect? That was never on 22 a bag? 23 A. No. 24 Q. No one working in the field would have 25 ever seen any wording like that? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013245 63 1 A. Not on a bag. 2 Q. Was the same thing true for the Montello 3 bags, the warnings were the same? 4 A. The warnings on all our bags were^ 5 identical, yes. 6 Q. Now, if Montello would have wanted to 7 change the wording or add wording or put a different 8 wording on there, could they have done that? 9 MR. WILLIAMS: Excuse me. Again, 10 I'm going to object that he is not a 11 Montello employee, and I don't think 12 he can answer a question based on what 13 they might or might not have done. 14 BY MR. CARUSO: 15 Q. Can you answer that question? % 16 A. Why don't you repeat it. 17 Q. If Montello had not been satisfied with 18 the wording that you all had proposed, that Union 19 Carbide had proposed insofar as adopting the federal 20 standard, if they wanted to add something to the bag 21 in the way of cautionary wording, was there anything 22 within Union Carbide's organization that would have 23 stopped them from doing that? 24 A. I'm not sure whether there was any 25 restriction on changing any of the wording that was NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013246 64 1 on the bag. If they would have wanted to change 2 something, it would have been considered -- it would 3 have been considered and discussed with whoever was 4 making those kinds of decisions. 5 Q. Do you know why, can you tell me why Union 6 Carbide never published on the bags the fact that 7 this product was a potential carcinogen? 8 A. No, I can't tell you why they wouldn't 9 have put that on there. As I said earlier, the 10 labels and the other information was developed and 11 distributed, or whatever, with the knowledge 12 contained at the time it was put out. 13 Q. Now, who - 14 A. I can't see why they would not have for 15 any other -- any less a reason than OSHA did not V 16 prescribe that with their, you know, being a federal 17 agency and with all of the testimony and whatever 18 that they went through in developing the standards, 19 that they did not prescribe the word "cancer" be 20 included in the label. 21 Q. Who was it at Union Carbide, or maybe more 22 than one person, who would, make the ultimate decision 23 as to what wording went on the bags? 24 A. I think I have testified to that. I don't 25 believe there was any one person. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013247 65 1 Q. well, who was the group? Who was the 2 group? 3 A. The same that I said before, probably the 4 medical department, the legal department, and the 5 asbestos management people. 6 Q. Does that include the marketing people? 7 A. No, I don't -- well, yeah, the marketing 8 department, also, would have been involved. 9 Q. Now, were you called upon at any time to 10 give your input as to the type of wording that you 11 think should go on the bags, as marketing manager? 12 A. Not in 1968 when the original warning was 13 developed, and then the second warning in '72, as I 14 said, was prescribed by OSHA. ' 15 Q. And there were never any discussions to V 16 expand that OSHA wording? 17 A. Not that i recall. ' 18 Let me change that last answer. 19 Q. Sure. 20 A. You gave me some time to think. 21 Q. I don't mean to-rush you. Anytime you 22 want to take some time, just let us know. 23 Go ahead and change your answer. 24 A. I do now recall, and I'm not sure of the 25 year, it was probably early 1985 or 1984, where there NELL MC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013248 66 1 were some discussions about changing the label. 2 Q. Tell me everything you remember about 3 that. 4 A. That's basically about it. There were 5 discussions about using more specific wording on the 6 labels. As I say, this was in the very end of Union 7 Carbide's involvement with the asbestos business. 8 Q. Let me see if we can probe you a little 9 bit on that. Do you know, was there a meeting, was 10 it like a room where they were having a meeting about 11 it? . 12 A. No, I don't recall that there was any 13 meeting. There were certain people assigned to be 14 involved with the wording change. I can't remember 15 what brought -- you know, what prompted or who 16 prompted it. 17 Q. How did you get to know about it? " 18 A. I was involved from a standpoint of 19 commenting on various proposals. 20 Q. The proposals we're talking about, were 21 these circulation of different types of warning 22 language that people were proposing might be put on 23 the bags? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And you were asked to comment on it? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013249 67 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. How would you make your comments with 3 regard to the proposed wording change? 4 A. As I recall, sometimes by phone and 5 sometimes by handwritten. 6 Q. Handwritten memo of some type? 7 A. Note on the copy, making notes on whatever 8 I was sent. 9 Q. Now, do you remember anybody else who was 10 consulted about these wording changes? 11 A. Sure. As I. say, there was probably 12 someone in the medical department. The man that I 13 was -- that was involved with it was Dr. Rhodes, 14 R-H-O-D-E-S. 15 Q. He was in the medical department? V 16 A. ' No, he was a Ph.D. 17 Q. When was -- "" " 18 A. I think he -- 19 Q. I'm sorry, finish your answer. 20 A. I think he was -- I'm not sure what 21 department he was in. He was in Niagara Falls. 22 Q. How was he involved in this? 23 A. I'm not sure whether he was the 24 coordinator of this idea or not, but he was -- I 25 probably did most of my discussions with him. He was NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013250 6B 1 the one that would call roe. 2 Q. Is that Harry Rhodes? 3 A. Harrison B., yes. 4 Q. what was the scope of this project? How 5 many people were being consulted about it, do you 6 know? 7 A. No, I don't know. 8 Q. In '84, you were product manager by that 9 time ? 10 A. Product and production manager. 11 Q. In King City? 12 A. In King City. 13 Q. Then this fellow Harry Rhodes from 14 Niagara, he was involved in some fashion in this? 15 A. Yes. V 16 Q. I'm sorry, what department? Was he in 17 medical or was he in some other department? 18 A. No. I'm not sure. He was in the metals 19 division, or I think by that time it was called 20 another subsidiary, UMETCO or something. I don't 21 know what his responsibilities were, exactly. 22 Q. Now, when you received the proposed 23 wording changes, was it just attached to a buck slip 24 of some type that was being circulated around the 25 company, or did you get your own individual copies to | NELL NIC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES. INC. U CAR EF00013251 69 1 look- at and then write a comment or call back? 2 A. as I recall, I got a direct mailing of 3 that. 4 Q. Then what were you supposed to do with it? 5 A. Hake comments on it. 6 Q. Did you call other people in who were in 7 your department in King City to also look at these 8 things and comment, or did you just handle this on 9 your own? 10 A. That's two questions, but I think I 11 basically did it on my- own. 12 Q. And your responses were either by 13 telephone back to Dr. Rhodes, or in writing? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. One or the other? V 16 A. Yes. * 17 Q. Did you keep copies of your responses, 18 your written responses? 19 A. I may have. I'm not sure after the 20 business was sold what copies I have kept. 21 Q. Did any of the proposed wording changes 22 include a warning against cancer? 23 A. As I recall, that word was proposed in tne 24 revised warning. 25 Q. Whateverhappened to the project to char..:-. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013252 70 1 the wording? 2 A. I think it ended when the business was 3 sold. 4 Q. At the time that the wording change was . 5 being discussed, had the OSHA -- had the mandatory 6 OSHA wording changed? 7 A. No. 8 Q. The product that Union Carbide sold 9 through Montello carried the name Visbestos; is that 10 correct? 11 A. That's one of the names, yes. 12 Q. Did any of the products,the chrysotile 13 asbestos products sold through Montello carry any 14 other names besides Visbestos? 15 A. There was another trademark called Crushed V 16 Super Visbestos and another one called Univis. 17 Q. These were all sold through Montello? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did Union Carbide make any sales, or 2 0 eventually Calidria, make any oil field sales through 21 any other company besides Montello? 22 A. No, not to my knowledge. 23 Q. Did Union Carbide recommend the use of 24 respirators or respiratory protection devices while 25 an individual was using this chrysotile asbestos _________________________________________________________________ _ -________________ NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013253 71 1 product? 2 A. At what point in time? 3 Q. Beginning in '68. 4 A. I'm not sure when any specific 5 recommendation was made, but I recall that our policy 6 was to recommend the use of respirators under certain 7 conditions, or to wear them all the time if someone 8 felt comfortable in them. 9 Q. How was that recommendation given to the 10 users of this product? 11 A. Well, usual.ly, it wasn't -- well, other 12 than our direct customers. But if we are speaking - 13 are we speaking about drilling fluids now? 14 Q. Yes, let's just talk about drilling 15 fluids. V 16 A. That recommendation would have been made 17 to Montello and then they would implement it with 18 their customers. 19 Q. There was never anything on the bags to 20 say use a respirator while using this product? 21 A. No, because that wouldn't have been 22 necessary all the time because of the very low dust 23 levels that were normally encountered in this 24 application. 25 Q. So, it wasn't necessary to use -- let me NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013254 72 1 ask the question more specifically. 2 A man using this product on a drilling rig 3 where he would be dumping the asbestos into a hopper 4 in the mud room, he wouldn't have to use a 5 respirator ? 6 A. Based on the air monitoring results that 7 we had and the recommendations or the threshold limit 8 values established by OSHA, there would have been no 9 regulatory requirement to wear a respirator. But as 10 I said, it was recommended. Obviously, a respirator 11 wouldn't do any harm, assuming the person didn't have 12 another breathing problem or claustrophobia problem. 13 Q. Excuse me for a second. 14 I want to make sure I understand this. In 15 Interrogatories that we propounded to Union Carbide, V 16 the question. Interrogatory No. 23 to Union Carbide 17 was: "Do you make or have you ever made any 18 recommendation that respiratory protective equipment 19 be worn while a person is exposed to asbestos 20 products?" 21 And then, naturally. Union Carbide 22 objected and said, "Subject to its objections, Union 23 Carbide responds as follows: Yes, Union Carbide 24 encouraged the use of instructions and guidelines for 25 the use of respirators." _______________________ ______________________________________.________________________ NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013255 73 1 So, given that vague response to an 2 Interrogatory, what I really want to find out is: 3 First of all, when the products first went out into 4 the oil fields, around '68, '69, whenever that was, 5 to be marketed out for an oil field-related use, did 6 Union Carbide at that time recommend to its 7 distributors that they tell their customers, "when 8 using this product use a respirator"? 9 MR. WILLIAMS: Excuse me just a 10 second. Mr. Caruso, would you mind 11 restating your question without the 12 surplus, your opinion as to our answer 13 in the Interrogatory? 14 MR. CARUSO: Just strike that 15 part. You don't know me that well, V 16 but a lot of my questions have that in 17 there. ~ 18 MR. WILLIAMS: I don't want to 19 have it read to a Jury at some later 20 time with that in there. 21 MR. CARUSO: I admit that would 22 never go before the Jury. 23 MR. WILLIAMS: If you don't mind, 24 please restate it. 25 BY MR. CARUSO: NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013256 74 1 Q. When the product went out into the field 2 in 1968 or '69, did Union Carbide in any fashion, 3 either by writing or by your salesmen telling people, 4 or any way you would communicate with somebody, tell 5 its distributors that "when your customers use this 6 product, a respirator should be worn when it's being 7 used"? 8 A. Not that I recall or not that I'm aware 9 of. I was not directly involved in that early 10 period. 11 Q. At any time after 1968-69, same question, 12 did Union Carbide ever tell its distributors to 13 advise the customers that "when using this product, 14 you should use a respirator"? 15 A. I think I would repeat my earlier comments V 16 or testimony, that as I remember, it was our general 17 practice to encourage -- or to advise people that a 18 respirator was not required but could be worn for 19 extra protection. 20 Q. So, as far as Union Carbide was concerned, 21 it was not necessary for a'person to use a respirator 22 when he was handling this product in its oil field 23 application? 24 A. It was not required by federal or any 25 other regulations. ' _____________________________________________________ _ NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013257 75 1 Q. Regulations aside, did Union Carbide 2 express to anyone that, regardless of the 3 regulations, a person should still wear a respirator 4 in using this product? 5 A. As I say, we didn't say "should use," we 6 encouraged the use of a respirator as additional 7 protection. 8 Q. Why did you encourage the use of the 9 respirators? 10 A. To provide additional protection. 11 Q. Additional protection from what? 12 A. Inhalation of fibers or any other foreign 13 materials that might be on the drilling rig. 14 Q. And the inhalation of fibers might produce 15 what result in an individual? V 16 A. That's a very broad question. The 17 excessive inhalation over long periods of time may 18 cause a lung impairment or other lung disease. 19 Q. So, you were concerned at least as to the 20 possibility if a person inhaled enough of this 21 product that he might contract some type of lung 22 disease? 23 A. There was always that possibility. As I 24 say, over -- in excessive amounts over long periods 25 of time, asbestos -- chrysotile asbestos may cause ____________________ ________ ________________________________________________________ . NEIL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013258 76 1 lung, disease. In recent studies - - 2 MR. WILLIAMS: Just answer his 3 question. . 4 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5 BY MR. CARUSO: 6 Q. Other than the use of respirators, did 7 Union Carbide ever advise its distributors of any 8 other safety precautions Union Carbide thought was 9 necessary in the handling of the chrysotile asbestos 10 product? 11 A. Well, the most general work practice to 12 prevent inhalation of fibers would be to prevent the 13 distribution of the fibers or prevent making them 14 airborne; so, it was recommended that when emptying a 15 bag that the man or the operator use care to prevent V 16 the creation of dust. Just as the warning label has 17 said, do not create dust. 18 I don't recall any other -- well, some 19 other safe work practices would include the cleanup 20 of the operation; if some material was spilled, that 21 it be done in a wet manner'so that fibers would not 22 be created-. And in a drilling fluid, of course, the 23 water is the main ingredient in a drilling fluid and 24 asbestos is immediately wet, so it was probably 25 possible that you could use water exactly as you were NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013259 77 1 adding the material. So, that would have been a safe 2 work practice. 3 Q. Have you ever been in a mud room of a 4 drilling rig when this product was being mixed? 5 A. I'm not familiar with the term "mud room." 6 I have been on a rig in the open when the products 7 have been added. 8 Q. You mean the hopper was just out in the 9 open? . 10 A. To the best of my recollection, the whole 11 operation was in the open. 12 Q. So, in other words, it.was important in 13 safely handling this product just to keep the fibers 14 from getting airborne? You didn't want them to get 15 airbo rne? 16 A. That's correct. If you don't breathe l / them, they are not .a hazard co the skin. 18 Q. Now, those things we have just discussed, 19 how were those safety measures conveyed to the 20 distributors? 21 A. I think the Material Safety Data Sheet 22 would be one way. I'm sure, there was other oral 23 communications, discussions, telephone or face to 24 face. In most cases, the rigs -- or a lot of the 25 people had used asbestos before, so they were not __ NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013260 78 1 unfamiliar with it. 2 Q. Did Union Carbide send its representatives 3 into the field to watch various drilling companies 4 apply this product and use it? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Were you one of the people who did that? 7 A. I was on maybe one rig or two, at the 8 most. 9 Q. Off the coast of Louisiana or Texas, or 10 was this someplace else? 11 A. I don't remember. It wasn't off the 12 coast, though. It was on dry land. 13 Q; What was the purpose of Union Carbide's 14 people attending these drilling operations? 15 A. I think in my case, I just wanted to see. 16 what was going on. I had never been on a drilling 17 rig before and this" was the opportunity to see what" 18 was happening, not just with the asbestos but with 19 the whole operation. We also sent -- well, when you 20 say Union Carbide did this and Union Carbide did 21 that, I assume you are not*talking about the 22 corporate as a whole, but the people that were 23 responsible for the asbestos business. 24 Q. Well, they worked for Union Carbide; 2 5 didn't they? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013261 79 1 A. Yes. I lost ray train -- the main purpose 2 that we sent people into the field was to do air 3 monitoring. 4 Q. All right. Were those studies recorded 5 and kept someplace? 6 A. They were recorded, yes, and reports made. 7 Q. How often was this done? . 8 A. Well, as I recall, we did quite a series 9 to establish a general idea of what the dust levels 10 were in a typical drilling mud application. In some 11 cases, someone would request that this air monitoring 12 be done. This would always come through Montello. 13 We wouldn't necessarily know the source of the 14 request, but often many of them, as I said, were done 15 at the volition of Montello and Onion Carbide to V 16 establish what could be called an expected dust 17 level. - . .. . 18 Q. What department within the asbestos 19 organization handled that, actually went out and did 20 the sampling? ' 21 A. It was done by the marketing department. 22 Q. Did you all bring any industrial 23 hygienists with you, some people who had experience 24 in collecting and measuring the samples? 25 A. I don't recall that we ever took an NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013262 80 1 industrial hygienist, but the people that we sent 2 were trained in the collection of the samples and in 3 the analysis of the filters to determine the 4 concentration of the fibers. 5 Q. Do you know whether or not the areas where 6 they were sampling were exposed areas, that is where 7 it was being mixed was outdoors and not inside of a 8 room? 9 A. Well, as I said, you mention "mud room," 10 and I don't really know what that term means. The 11 description of each setup where samples were 12 collected was recorded in the reports, and I don't 13 recall any of the specific descriptions. 14 Q. I take it you were satisfied the product 15 was not producing dust levels beyond governmental V 16 regulations? 17 A. As i recall, there were never any""l'evels 18 in excess of either the ceiling values or the 19 time-weighted average values established by OSHA. 20 Q. How long did this study -- when did it 21 begin and when did it end with regard to these 22 studies? 23 A. Well, it was not a -- you know, I don't 24 want to make it sound like a single study that was 25 started and stopped. It was fairly, I would say, NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013263 81 1 continuing, and I really couldn't be specific on the 2 first one. I think we started doing customer air 3 monitoring in 1971. 4 Q. Would you still have been doing it as late 5 as 1984, or did it stop after some point? 6 A. The request to do these, I think, dropped 7 off in later years; but the service, to the best of 8 my recollection, was maintained through '84 and '85, 9 up to the date of the sale of the business. 10 HR. CARUSO: Can we take about a 11 30-minute break and get a sandwich or 12 something like that? 13 MS. CLARK: That's fine. 14 (LUNCH RECESS) 15 BY MR. CARUSO: V 16 Q. Mr. Myers, we took the deposition awhile 17 back of a fellow named Ken Campbellwho was ' 18 president of Montello. Did you know Mr. Campbell? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How was it that you knew Mr. Campbell? 21 A. I think I mentioned earlier in the 22 testimony that I met him when we were introducing 23 asbestos to the drilling mud industry. 24 Q. Besides that initial meeting with 25 Mr. Campbell, were you in touch with him over the NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013264 82 1 years as Montello was marketing the Visbestos 2 product ? 3 A. Yes. . 4 Q. Would that be face-to-face meetings or 5 would it just be by telephone? 6 A. Both. 7 Q. Or both? 8 A. Both. 9 Q. What would be the circumstances by which 10 you would meet Mr. Campbell face to face? 11 A. I think it .would be a typical relationship 12 between a supplier and a distributor to discuss his 13 sales efforts, his sales. We also became close 14 personal friends. 15 Q. Would you fly down to Texas to meet with V 16 him just on a sort of customer-call basis? 17 A. Not that 1 recall. -- 18 Q. Excuse me -- Oklahoma? 19 A. I have flown to Tulsa. 20 Q. To meet with Mr. Campbell? 21 A. Yes. ' 22 Q. Was this a routine, was it done once a 23 year, twice a year, or anything like that? 24 A. There was no routine, no. 25 Q. During the course of these meetings with NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013265 83 1 Mr. Campbell, was the emerging information regarding 2 the health effects of asbestos discussed? 3 A. I don't recall any specifics, but I'm sure 4 that we did discuss all phases of asbestos and 5 marketing it to the drilling fluid application. 6 Q. That would include the health hazards 7 associated with it? 8 A. As I say, I assume that was discussed. I 9 can't remember any specifics. 10 Q. Besides meeting Mr. Campbell face to face 11 on occasion, would you. receive telephone calls from 12 him? 13 A. Yes, I have talked to him. 14 Q. Would those telephone -- what would be the 15 reason for a telephone call like that being 16 initiated? 17 ' A. The same reasons as' stated before, normal 18 discussions between a supplier and a customer that 19 could have involved shipments or product quality, 20 things of that nature. 21 Q. Were there any discussions on the 22 telephone regarding the health hazards associated 23 with asbestos? 24 A. I don't recall anything specific. 25 Q. During the period that you were involved NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. . UCAREF00013266 84 1 with marketing between 1970 and 1984 - 2 A. 1981. 3 Q. 1981 -- was there a particular salesman or 4 salesmen who were assigned to the^ Southwestern part 5 o the United States, including Oklahoma? 6 A. Yes. I can't remember whether there was 7 more than one, but I know that there was one that 8 dealt with Montello, as well as other customers in 9 the South. 10 Q. Do you know what his name was? 11 A. Yes. . 12 Q. What was it? 13 A. Jack Walsh. Actually, John Walsh. 14 Q. Did he live and work in Niagara and then 15 just come down to the Southwest on sales calls, or 16 was he a resident of this area? 17 A." No, he was based in Atlanta, Georgia. ` 18 Q. He was an employee of Union Carbide? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you know where he is today? 21 A. He's still in Atlanta. 22 Q. Still working for Union Carbide? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do you know who he works for now? 25 A. For KCAC, Incorporated. NEIL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013267 85 1 Q. Is his job with KCAC also in marketing? 2 A. In sales. 3 Q. Sales. Besides Mr. Walsh, were there any 4 other salesmen whose names come to mind who may have 5 been in contact-with Montello over that period of 6 time? 7 A. I don't recall -- we had a salesman named 8 Dickson and he was at one point the marketing manager 9 or sales manager, Gordon Dickson, D-I-C-K-S-O-N, and 10 a fellow named Bob Byrne, B-Y-R-N-E, who were 11 involved with sales throughout the country. I don't 12 recall if there was anyone else specifically assigned 13 to the Southwest or not. 14 Q. Mr. George Dickson? 15 A. Gordon. V 16 Q. Gordon Dickson. Where did he live? 17 " A. During that pVriod*of tirae, he lived m 18 Niagara Falls. . 19 Q. Do you know where he is today? 20 A. He's passed on. 21 Q. Mr. Byrne, do ydu know where he is today? 22 A. He's in Michigan somewhere. 23 Q. Do you know where in Michigan? 24 A. No. I think -- let's see. I think it's 25 -- no, I don't know the name of the town. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013268 86 1 Q. Do you know -- do you want to think about 2 that for a second? 3 A. I started to saw Paw Paw, Michigan. I'm 4 not sure whether that's where he lives or whether 5 that even is a town, but for some reason that comes 6 to my mind. 7 Q. Do you know who he is employed by, if 8 anyone? 9 A. He's retired, to the best of my knowledge. 10 Q. These men, as I understand it, were not 11 assigned specifically to the Southwest, they had some 12 type of national sales or marketing position? 13 A. As I recall, I don't believe any of them 14 were assigned specifically to the South or Southwest, 15 other than Mr. Walsh. v 16 Q. Do you know who Blair Engles is? 1 / A. Yes. ` '` - 18 Q. Who is that? 19 A. He was in the marketing group in Niagara 20 Falls as our -- I don't remember what the title was, 21 but he was responsible for * technical -- the technical 22 phases of marketing, laboratory work on product 23 development; and then he was our first, let's say, 24 "expert," in quotation marks, on air monitoring. 25 Q. Do you know where he is today? _J NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013269 J1A1M91E4S-1W908M)EHAPPY ROB*T Q KEITH DEWEY J GOMSOUUN JOHN L BELL. JR JOHN D RIENSTRA. JR OANIEL V FLATTEN JAMES l WEBER ROGERS McCABE Thomas l. hanna JOHN J DURKAY ARTHUR R ALMOUtST LOUIS M 8C0P1EL9. JR PATRICIA CHAMBLIN QENEM WILLIAMS OAVIO 6 GAULTNEY ROBERTA BLACK THOMAS H WALSTON SANDRA P CLARK MILTON G SHUFWELO `` /MEHAFFY. WEBEFI, KEITH & GONSOULIN | A PROFESSIONAL CORPORATION j ATTORNEYS AT LAW ' . P3O9S1T8 COAFLFOICEER ABVOEXNU1E0 BEAUMONT. TEXAS 77704 ' - __ - - / TELEPHONE 409-835-501 1 PAX 409-835-5739 p}6 f) r d r fa C IV >U J November 15, 1988 MORRIS C CARRINGTON KURT M ANQRgASON PAULA H OUNHAM RSQI L MARTIN OAVIO W STARNES BARBARAJ BARRON MICHAEL J CRADDOCK GARY W COKER Elizabeth b pratt van A wgginton ' JOE e BROUSSARD oramim omcc JIM I GRAVES JOHN CASH SMITH 4oq ae ttm JOHNSON CITY 044CI siaaep-n*? BRIAN R DAVIS 04 COUN0CI ausun rexAt QUENTIN KEITH <1910-19871 RE: Soignet v Montello Mr. John Myers KCAC, Inc. P. 0. Box K King City, California 93930 Dear Mr. Myers: Enclosed is the transcript of your deposition taken on November 4, together with a signature page and errata sheet. Please read the deposition and note any changes, if any, on the errata sheet. You then need to sign the signature page before a notary and return it to me so that we can forward same to the Court Reporter by December 14. If you have any questions, please call me. You may keep the copy of the deposition for your records. ' * " Very truly yours, ' (55/zl .^^rrurr^J EGS:aem 2179E Enclosure Eva Gail Simon Certified Legal Assistant UCAREF00013270 87 ih 10 rionfti Reqents Park, Suite 111 Beaumont, Texas 77707 (409) 838-0333 29C0 Smith, SuiIp 104 Houston, Texas 77CC6 (713) 523-3767 . Mell McCollum & Associates, Inc, November 14, 1988 HAND'DELIVERED HON. SANDRA F. CLARK Mehaffy, Weber, Keith Gonsoulin 2615 Calder Avenue Beaumont, Texas 77704 . RE: B-86-1193 MARIE B. SOIGNET, ET AL VS. MONTELLO, INC., ET AL Dear Ms. Clark: Enclosed with your copy of the deposition of JOHN LESTER MYERS, taken on November 4, 1988, in the above-captioned cause, is the original signature page. Please have the witness read your copy of transcript and sign the original signature page before a Notary Public. If the signature page is not obtained within thirty (30) days, the transcript will be handled os though signed. Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Yours truly, NELL McCALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. Hon. Daniel J. Caruso Hon. Gene M. Williams Hon. D. Allan Jones Hon. William J. Taylor, Jr. Hon. Kent Adams Hon. Joe Guyton Margaret Hebert Hon. David L. Landry Hon. Andrew S. Hartman Hon. John G. Bissell Hon. Eugene C. Marshall Hon. James M. Harris UCAREF00013271 134 1 THE STATE OF TE 2 COUNTY OF JEFFE 3 . I, JOHN LES'r&rv. ...----- hereby certify that 4 I have read the foregoing transcript of my testimony 5 given in the foregoing numbered and styled case, and 6 that the same is true and correct to the best of my 7 knowledge and belief. 8 I further certify that any and all 9 corrections have been made on a separate page and 10 initialed by me. iSL&l 11 This / ch__ day of 12 1988 . 13 14 15 JOHN LESTER MYERS 16 *^ X/ SWORN AND-SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME this 18 day of, 19 8 8 . 19 20 21 22 NOTARY PUBLIC 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013272  ** PAGE LINE 86 16 87 19 118 9 118 19 ERRATA SHEET ERROR "Ingalls" not "Engles" "Ingalls" not "Engles" CORRECTION ---- - REASON --" My answer for labelling should apply only to bags of Union Carbide asbestos. Union Carbide did not produce or package ceiling tile or floor tile. Insert "for" between "was" & "drilling" ij NELL MC CALLUM ASSOCIATES. INC. Beaumont. Texas UCAREF00013273 01/10/00 HON 12:51 FAX J CAoR*LxI3SL-Em08iH) AY. 18 GARYD ELUSTOM DAVID W CROWE MEL D BAILEY BRKCD WEWERS CHRISTOPHER P UANN1NO PAUL S HAMILTON KATHRYN HUME) W. SCOTT BCH1Y LAVRA E KVGLSR TODD I SUDDLRSON MELINDAS HUPP BRENT M BARREN DeHayAEillston DeHay & Elliston, L.L.P. ATTORNEYS AND COUNSELORS 3500 BANE OF AMERICA PLAZA 901 MAIN STREET DALLAS. TEXAS 7S202-3738 (214)210-3400 FACSIMILE (214) 310-2S00 >i OU.IAM1 rr. IZAUMONT. TEXAS 77791 (*) FACSIMILE (M) D1-97M &001- JILLO ADAMS JOHN W ARNOLD WILLIAM C. ARNOLD RUSSELL I 0CPALMA CHR1ST1J DICKSON CHARLENE V ECHOLS WILLIAM A PYXES TROY D HELLING TANDY V. IOVRBT fKFPRir M. MAR03Z MISTI D HOSTELLER LILY C MYERS ~ " MATT A NOWAK TODD D OGDEN OAWNM PALMISANO* BLAIR M. PARTLOW MICHAEL I RAMIREZ RANDY RAMIREZ TODDH RAMSEY H TRACY RICHARDSON. HI KYLEC STEELS MITZI S. WALLACE Hietnotf niy to LsMiitn* Direct Diet: CUeat* : Alan Gerson John Myers 212/808-7897 831/385-6887 Beth McGregor 713/651-1920 Todd J. Suddleson (214)210-2432 Frank Dean III v. Armstrong World Industries Cause No. 97-57627, 270th Judicial District, Harris County, Texas January 10,2000 13 (includes cover page) 00100 64287 COMMENTS: Please replace pages 3-14 in the John Myers Deposition Transcript which was taken on November 4,1999. IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE ALL PAGES, OR IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH RECEIVING, TELEPHONE (214) 210-2400. OUR FACSIMILE IS AUTOMATIC AND/OR MANUAL AND IS COMPATIBLE WITH GROUPS I, II AND HI. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS FACSIMILE MESSAGE (INCLUDING ALL DOCUMENTS ACCOMPANYING IT) ISLEGALLYPRIVILEGEDAND CONFIDENTIAL, INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITYNAMED ABOVE THE TRANSMISSION OF THIS INFORMATION TO ANY PERSON OTHER THAN THE INTENDED RECIPIENT SHALL IN NO WAY CONSTITUTE A WAIVER OF ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE OR ANY OTHER VALID PRIVILEGE IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE INERROR PLEASE IMMEDIATELYNOTIFY US BY TELEPHONEAND RETURN THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE TO USAT THEABOVEADDRESS VIA U.S. POSTAL SERVICE. THANK YOU. J$)N 10 2000 13:52 PAGE.01 UCAREF00013274 ,y w MON 12:51 FAX . i.1 -A AA DeHay&Elllston @002' 3 1 Q. And then did you go to work at that time or continued 2 your education? 3 A. I started with Union Carbide in May of 1951. 4 Q. And where did you begin working for Union Carbide? 5 A. At Oakridge, Tennessee. 6 Q. Were you recruited right from college? 7 A. I don't recall whether I - I; think so. I think they I '* 8 were at the - I'm not sure if they werle at the campus or how I - I 9 don't remember that. j. 10 Q. Do you remember how you came to select Union Carbide as 11 an employer for your first job out of jcollege? 12 A. No I don't. 13 Q. And what did they have you djb: ing as a new engineer at 14 Oakridge? 15 . A. I was put in to start with -I put in to what they called 16 a bullpen awaiting clearance. This was an atomic energy 17 operation. I don't remember how long aut reviewing plans and 18 blueprints generally trying to keep us busy while we were waiting 19 to be getting a job - or work - starting to work. 20 Q. And roughly when did you actually start the real work? 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. A few months? ' 23 A. I would say a few months probably. 2880 13:52 PflGE.02 UCAREF00013275 JON. 12:52 FAX I/OC HON 13:0 FAX 40B838 DeHay&Elllston Luci @0tu0u3-< I<I I$ 1 Q. And then without asking you to violate any of the 2 security oaths you took, what generally was the nature of your 3 work there? 4 4 -- A. Working on the development of'equipment and processes S for the startup of a new plant in Paducah, Kentucky. 6 Q. Now Union Carbide, I suppose, was a contractor with the 7 United States Government at the Oakridge facility? , 8 A. Yes. 9 MR. SUDDLESON: Object to form. 10 BY MR. BLANKS; 11 Q. And had it been a contractor' at Oakridge for earlier 12 years like back into the war years? 13 A. I don't know. 14 MR. SUDDLESON: Object to form. 15 BY MR. BLANKS: 16 Q. What was your understanding of the duration or the 17 history of Carbide's role at Oakridge? 18 A. I don't know. I 19 Q. Who did you work for there? -Who did you report to? 20 A. I don't remember any names from that. The plant 21 superintendent I remember - no, that was Paducah. I don't 22 remember at Oakridge. I was only there for about a year. 23 Q. And where did you go after that? 24 A. To Paducah Kentucky, yes. | 2000 13=53 PflGE.03 UCAREF00013276 MON 12:52 FAX 0/00 HON 13:09 i-Al 4UH9300U04 DeHsyAElllston UUCJ. @004 '---- ' 1i 5 1 Q. And was that a nuclear power plant as we use the term 2 today, a place for generating electricity? 3 A. No. 4 - Q. So it was, I gather then, a government plant that was 5 involved in defense department work or war department work. Would 6 that be accurate? 7 A. I don't know whether that would be accurate or not. It `* 8 was a gaseous diffusion plant. ., 9 Q. How long did you remain at Paducah Kentucky as an 10 employee of Union Carbide Company? . 11 A. Until 1966. 12 Q. So that would be approximately mid-1952? 13 A. When I went there, yes. 14 Q. Yes sir, until 1966? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q- And did your responsibilities increase, your job title 17 change while you were there at Paducah? IB A. Yes. 19 Q. What were your positions there at Paducah? 20 A. Well, I don't recall exactly I was a process engineer 21 and eventually became the supervisor of a chemical cleaning 22 operation. i j 23 Q. And you said you recalled your supervisor or 24 superintendent from Paducah. Who would that be? IN 10 !000 13:53 PAGE.04 UCAREF00013277 HON 12:53 FAX MON 13:09 FAX 4098386084 DeHayAE111s ton Lucl 005 " UlM A. It was R.A. Winkel (W-I-N-K-E-L). 2 Q. And then where did you go after leaving the Paducah 3 facility? 4 A. To Niagara Falls. New York. 5 Q. And was that a Union Carbide plant there? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q And you have gone what in thje middle of 1366' I 8 A. I don't recall. 9 Q. And what was Union Carbide manufacturing at Niagara 10 Falls or what did it back in 1966 when! you went there? i 11 A. I don't recall what they manufactured. I was in the 12 asbestos research and development. They manufactured different 13 things there. I don't remember what they were. 14 Q. Can you characterize the plant for us any more 15 specifically? 16 A. There was a bunch of brick buildings over a pretty large 17 area. 18 Q. Okay. Was it a chemical plant? 19 A. No. It was more a metals - different metals operations, 20 Q. And what kind of metals would have been involved at the 21 plant that you can remember? 22 A. I don't remember. 23 Q. What did you do there at Niagara Falls? 24 A. I was in the research - R40 Department for asbestos. 2000 13=53 PAGE.05 UCAREF00013278 10/! 10/< MON 12:53 FAX MON ia: 09 fr'AA 40tt3BUUa DeHay&Elllston luci 006- 7 1 Q. And how long did you remain, there? 2 A- Until 1967. 3 Q. And then where did you go, sir? 4 A- To King City, California. 5 Q. Where you reside today? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And what Union Carbide business existed in King City, 6 California in 1967? 9 A. The asbestos mining and milling operation. 10 * MS. KNIGHT: I'm sorry I didn't hear i 11 you. i 12 A. The asbestos mining and milling operation. 13 BY MR. BLANKS: 14 Q. And did you remain at the Kijvg City California facility 15 of Union Carbide, until you retired from that company? 16 A. No. 17 Q. All right. Well, I'm jumping ahead then. So, take us 18 forward chronologically, please. 19 A. In 197C, I was transferred bick to Niagara Falls, New 20 York as marketing manager for asbestos! 21 Q. And how long did you remain in Niagara Falls this second 22 occasion? 23 A. Until 1981. I lasted a little longer. 300 13=54 PACE. 06 UCAREF00013279 .0/0 HON 12:54 FAX /o< (ON 13:09 FAX 4098388084 DeHay&Elllston Luci T1 1 Q- And did you remain in the same job, marketing manager, 2 through that eleven year period at Niagara Falls? 3 A. Yes. 4 <2. And then in 1981 what did you do? - 5 A. Transferred back to King City, California. 6 Q- Now what was your position in King City, California 7 during your first assignment there in >1967 until 1970? 8 A. I was called a technical superintendent. 9 Q. And then in 1981 on your return to King City, California 10 what was your position? 11 A. Product and production manager. 12 Q. And what was the next step in your career with Union 13 Carbide, please? i 14 A. I was still with Union Carbide until the operation was 15 sold in 1985. . 16 Q. And what did you do then? 17 A. I stayed with the company with the new owners. And I 18 was then called the president of KCAC i ncorporated, the current 19 owners of the asbestos operation. 20 Q. That's the letters K-C-A-C? 21 A. Right. No periods, all caps. 22 Q. What do those four letters stjand for? 23 A. Nothing. They were just picked out as a name. 24 Q. Kansas City Asbestos Company or - ? AN 20e0 13!54 PAGE.07 UCAREF00013280 MON 12:54 FAX rAA DeBaytElllston 1 MR, SUDDLESON: Objection form. 2 A. No, it was just KCAC. 3 ay mr. blanks: 4 Q. And when did you retire from that job? . 5 A. At the end of 1993. 6 Q. And did you have further employment after that sir? 7 A. No. 5 8 Q. Well have you done any consulting work since your 9 retirement in 1993 from KCAC? 10 A. Only at KCAC, 1 was retained! for two years as a 11 consultant. 12 Q. Can you tell us approximately when Union Carbide I 13 acquired the asbestos mine in California? 14 A. Well, they never did really acquire it. The mining 15 aperation was primarily done by leasing the property. It was 16 discovered in 1959 by a Union Carbide mineralogist. And then the 17 uperation was begun mining and milling in 1963. 18 Q. So you're saying I think Union Carbide then leased the 19 Land and I suppose obtained the mineral, rights to mine there? 20 A. Right. 21 i MR. SUDDLESON: Objection form. 22 A. I think maybe they owned a few of the claims but a 23 majority were leased with the mineral, rights. 3e0 13:55 PAGE.09 UCAREF00013281 MON 12:54 FAX MON 13:09 FAX 40983&B084 DeHay&ElUston Lucl @if0lo0u9a 10 1 BY MR. BLANKS: 2 Q. What is your understanding of the circumstances that led 3 up to a Union Carbide mineralogist poking around out in this neck _ 4 of the woods? 5 A. Well as 1 remember, he was looking for nickel or any e other material that might be of interest to Union Carbide's mining 7 company or mining operation. 8 Q. Now I confess I have long thought of Union Carbide as 9 essentially a chemical company but 1 am gathering from what you say it also had metals operations for Lome good time. Is that 10 11 true? 12 A. Yes. They were a major miner at one time i 13 Q- What time frame would that have been in? 14 A. X don't recall. 15 Q. Are we talking about in the ^ears since you joined the 16 company ox would that have been earlier? A. No, they were a mining opera!ion before I joined the 17 18 company. 19 Q. So is it your appreciation that Union Carbide began more 20 as a mining and minerals company and then ended up evolving into 21 or moving into the chemical business? 22 MR. SUDDliESON: Well, I'm going to 23 first object to form and Joe, I think 24 that's kind ofl beyond the scope of what 2000 13=55 PAGE.09 UCAREF00013282 MON 12:S3 FAX u/gu mvvs xj:iu rAA 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 N 18 !000 13:56 DeHay&ElllstoD @010 11 Mr. Myers is here for. " " MB. BLANKS: Well -- MR. SUDDELSON: He is here to Calk about the asbestos mine and not the entire history of Union Carbide. MB. BLANKS: Well, I think respectfully,' Todd, that he's here as a 0 corporate rep resentative and a person with knowledge of specified things per our Notice bu : anything else he knows is also fair game as anything else. So - MR. SUDDELSON: I'm just saying that I don't believe that Union Carbide is using Mr. Mye;:s as a corporate representative for the purpose of the entire corporate history of Union Carbide. MR. BLANKS: I understand. I'm just asking about what he knows and - MR. SUDDELSON: I know but please understand I need to object that I think that's beyond the scope but Mr. Myers can answer it to t|he extent that he knows the answer. PAGE.10 UCAREF00013283 10/ u/,vii MON 12:53 FAI ia:iu DeHayiElllston 1.UC1 @m0i1ii1.il 12 l A. And I would correct something 1 said that it was a 2 mining company before I - you asked if it was before I started 3 with the company. I'm not familiar with the period from 1951 4 until I became involved in 1967. And I don't know how the 5 corporation was started or found - or switched into chemicals or 6 no, I don't know anything about that. ; 7 BT MR. BLANKS: 8 Q. Well, I was just asking what your understanding was of 9 that aspect of the company's history ahd as a roughly forty-year 10 employee at the executive level, I thoui ght perhaps you'd have some 11 awareness of that. Although we shan't, look to bind the Union 12 Carbide with your recollection about those topics, how's that? 13 MR. SUDDELSON: And I would object 14 to the form o:: the question. 15 A. I actually have no remembrance of that. I wasn't an IS executive for forty years. 17 BY MR. B1AHKS: 18 Q. I understand. Okay. 19 A. 1 really don't know the history of the company 20 Q. Did you ever see any kind of a book or booklet or 21 pamphlet that actually describes the hij story of the company? i 22 A. I probably have. I don't rec all specifically, 23 Q. So what - what mineral operat;ions of Union Carbide 24 besides the asbestos mine have you evezj heard of? JAN ! 2000 13:56 PAGE.11 UCAREF00013284 10/< MON 12:56 FAX .U/,V Mun ritjL <*u*o DeHay&Elllston @012 13 1 MR. SUDDEXSON: Objection form. 2 A. Tungsten, uranium, vanadium and that's all I can recall. 3 BY MR. BLANKS: 4 Q. And what is - what is the Carbide aspect of the business 5 that would - you know, that appears in the name of the company? 6 MR. SUDDELSON: Objection to form. 7 A. I don't understand the question. 8 BY MR. BLANKS: 9 Q. Well, the company started out being what the Carbon and Carbide Company or something like that! Have you ever heard of 10 11 that? 12 MR. SUDDELSON: Objection form. A. That sounds familiar, yes. 1 don't if that was the 13 14 start of it. 15 BY MR. BLANKS: 16 Q. So what is carbide? 17 MR. SUDDELSON: Objection form. I 18 don't understand what you mean, what is 19 carbide? 20 A. I don't know what you mean byj what is carbide? 21 BY MR. BLANKS: 22 Q. Well, I mean is that a chemic!al compound or is that just 23 a made-up name, or what? JAN 2000 13:57 PACE. 12 UCAREF00013285 MON HON 1132::1506 FAX FAX 40983*8084 DeHay&ElHston luci , e0t1u3i?" i 14 1 A. You know, I don't know. It's a material that is used in 2 industry. Carbide lamps, I have heard of those. It must be 3 something that burns, but 1 don't know what its chemical makeup 4 is. 5 Q. During your years with the company, did you ever hear of 6 any plants that made carbide products?^ 7 A. I don't recall. 8 Q. Okay. What other research and development activities 1 9 took place at the Niagara Falls facility of Onion Carbide during 10 the years you worked up there besides research on asbestos? 11 A: There was. research on other mI etals but I'm not familiar 12 with it. I 13 Q. Was the Niagara Falls Union Jarbide facility the place 14 where the research and development activities for the mineral side 15 of the business took place? 16 A. At least part of them. I'm not sure if that was the 17 only location or not. . ! 18 Q. You're not aware of any others? 19 A. I'm not aware of any others, ho. There may have been. i i 20 Q. Are you aware of any Union Carbide research and 21 development facility for activities other than minerals? 22 A. Yes, there were other facilities. 23 Q. Where were those? 1 24 A. South Charleston, that's Virginia. 10 2000 13: s? PAGE.13 UCAREF00013286 87 1 A. He's still in Niagara Palls. 2 Q. He still works for Union Carbide? , 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you know who he works for? 5 A. He works for acompanycalled ASTECO. 6 Q. A-S -- 7 A. A-S-T-E-C-0. 8 Q. Is he the gentleman who set the protocol 9 for the air sampling to be used by the people you all 10 train to go do that work? 11 A. He would probably not do that on his own, 12 but he would be involved with establishing the 13 criteria for collecting samples, as well as analyzing 14 them. - 15 Q. Do you know a gentleman named Ed Kleber, V 16 K-L-E-B-E-R? 17 A. Yes. '" `* 18 Q. Who was Ed Kleber? 19 A. He worked for Hr. Engles and was a 20 technician, and also became proficient in the air 21 monitoring. These men hadbeen trained or had been 22 -- received training through, I think, NIOSH for the 23 air sampling and monitoring. 24 Q. Do you know where Mr. Kleber is today? 25 A. He's in San Francisco. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013287 88 1 2 BY MR. CARUSO: (OFF-RECORD DISCUSSION) 3 Q* Do you know who Mr. Kleber is presently 4 employed by in San Francisco? 5 A. He works for Wilbur-Ellis-Connell 6 Brothers. 7 Q. How is Connell spelled? 8 A. C-O-N-N-E-L-L. 9 Q. The Answers to Interrogatories that were 10 submitted by Union Carbide identify the beginning 11 date for the sale of asbestos products, this type of 12 chrysotile asbestos product, as 1963. Am I to 13 understand that you were selling this type of product 14 beginning in *63, but it was not for oil field use 15 until '68? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. Before this product was put on the market, 18 this chrysotile asbestos product for oil field use, 19 were any studies done by Union Carbide to determine 20 whether or not it was or presented any type of health 21 hazards to the users? * 22 A. Nothing that I'm aware of, other than the 23 studies we've already discussed. I'm not sure that 24 -- you asked the question before 1968. I don't know, 25 as I told you, I couldn't remember the dates of those NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013288 89 1 studies. 2 Q- So, the only studies you're aware of are 3 the ones that we've discussed? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did Union Carbide ever sell any of its 6 products to Barium Supply Company as a distributor? 7 A. Not that I remember. 8 Q. The Milwhite Company? 9 A. Not to my knowledge. 10 Please understand that I was not in the 11 marketing group prior to '68 and would not 12 necessarily know the answer. That's why 1 am 13 answering that; but I don't know would be simpler. 14 Q. In Coalinga, California, the mine that 15 we've been talking about, that's where it's located? V 16 A. No. It's in San Benito County, and it's 17 probably 30 or 40 miles from the town ot Coalinga. 18 Q. This is where the mine is and also the 19 processing facility, it's all in. one location? 20 A. The Union Carbide operation? 21 Q. Yes, the Union Carbide operation. 22 A. No. The mine is in San Benito County; the 23 milling operation is in King City, California, in 24 Monterey County, about 60 miles from the mine. 25 Q. Has there been any requirement that the NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013289  90 1 people who work at the mill wear respiratory 2 protection while working there? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. How long has that been in place? 5 A. Again, to the best of my knowledge, that's 6 been in place since the start of the operation, and 7 the requirement is only in certain areas where the 8 dust levels have shown to be near the threshold limit 9 values. 10 Q. What's the date of the start of the 11 operation? . 12 A. 1963. 13 Q. So, it's not used throughout thefacility, 14 but only in certain areas? 15 A. That's correct. % 16 Q. And the type of respirators we're talking 17 about, these die uiechauicdl-f ii cel" ie sp i t a L u t S , as 18 opposed to air-supplied respirators? 19 A. They are not air-supplied respirators, 20 although we have those available if it's needed for 21 any reason -- if they would be needed for any reason. 22 Q. When you were at Union Carbide, did you 23 keep a personal reading file of any type? 24 A. No, nothing organized. 25 Q. For example, you know, memoranda that you NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. . UCAREF00013290 91 1 sent back to other people within the company, did you 2 keep a copy and put it in a file somewhere? 3 A. In some cases, I would keep files, yes. _ _ 4 Q. These responses that we were talking about 5 earlier when you were asked to comment on proposed 6 wording changes in the warnings around 1984 -- you 7 remember we talked about that before? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Would anywritten response thatyou made 10 regarding those proposals be in that reading file? 11 A. Presently? . 12 Q. At the time you did it, did you put a copy 13 in the reading file? 14 A. Possibly. Again, I can'tremember a 15 specific case where I would have put it in, but I V 16 usually keep things like that. 17 ' fll*"'"' Do" you stirr have' those fires?'"......... ...... ' * 18 A. NO. 19 Q. Where are they, do youknow? 20 A. No, I don't. When I left Niagara Falls, 21 the files were left there,-of course, and I don't 22 know where they are now. 23 Q. When you left the company in 1985, who was 24 the head of the medical department? 25 A. I don't remember. NELL MC CALL'JM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013291 92 1 Q. Was there a separate industrial hygiene 2 department? 3 A. I don't know whether that was still -- it 4 was probably still part of the medical department. 5 Q. Who was the person, if you know, who was 6 the chief or head industrial hygienist? 7 A. In '85? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Between 1970 and 1980, who was the head of 11 the medical department.? 12 A. I think I have answered -- 13 Q. You may have, I just don't remember. 14 A. -- previously, and the only name that I 15 remember, and I don't know his tenure, was Dr. Carl V 16 Dernehl. '! 7 Q". Do* you know where Dr. Dernehl'"is' now? _` 18 A. No. . 19 Q. Was there someone between 1970 and1980 20 who held the position of chief or head industrial 21 hygienist? * 22 A. The name that we have discussed earlier, 23 Paul McDaniel, was an industrial hygienist. I don't 24 know whether he was chief. 25 Q. The monitoring studies that we have talkeo NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013292 93 1 about, were they ever performed inside enclosed 2 areas, such as inside of a warehouse or inside 3 building? 4 A. I know, for example, in other 5 applications, like in floor tile manufacture, this 6 would be inside of a building. With regard to the 7 drilling mud application, again, I can't be specific, 8 but I assume that we would have monitored inside 9 warehouses, where the material was stored. 10 Q. So, you think that some of these air 11 sampling studies that we talked about were done 12 inside enclosed areas, like warehouses and so forth? 13 A. As 1 say, I would assume that there were 14 some done there, yes. 15 Q. But you don't know for a fact, you just V 16 assume that? 17 A. No, I can't state that for a fact. 18 Q. Was there any relationship between Union 19 Carbide and Sun Oil Company with regard to this 20 chrysotile asbestos product? 21 A. Not to my knowledge. 22 Q. Did you ever deal with anybody at Sun Oil 23 with regard to this product? 24 - A. Not that I recall. 25 Q. Do you know who Wendell Alcorn is? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. ' UCAREF00013293 94 1 A. I think he's a lawyer. 2 Q. With the firm of Cadwalader, wickersham & 3 Taft, One Wall Street, New York, New York? 4 A. At one point, he was, yes; I don't know 5 whether he still is. - 6 Q. Who was he a lawyer for? Who did he 7 represent? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Do you know who Hans Weill is? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Who is Hans-Weill? 12 A. He's a Medical Doctor at Tulane 13 University. I should say, the last I knew, he was at 14 Tulane University. 15 Q. What areyour initials, sir? V 16 A. <7 . La M. 17 Q. Let me show you a letter of October 26, 18 1977, to Wendell Alcorn, written by Dr. Hans Weill - 19 which purports to be, as we say in the trade, written 20 by Dr. Hans Weill, and see if you have ever seen this 21 letter before (tendering document). 22 A. You gave me a letter with a letterhead of 23 Tulane University, pages 1 and 3, I don't know 24 whether there was a page 2. There is a Hans Weill 25 typed as the sender of the letter, so I guess I would _____________________ __ _______________________________________________ _________ NEIL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. ' UCAREF00013294 95 1 agree with what you said. I don't recall having seen 2 this before. , 3 Q. Those are your initials written on the - 4 bottom of the paper? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Handwritten in on the bottom of the paper? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. But you have no recollection of having 9 seen a letter from Dr. Weill like that? 10 A. No, I can't remember. 11 MRv WILLIAMS: Did you write your 12 initials down there? 13 THE WITNESS: No, that's not my 14 handwriting. 15 BY MR. CARUSO: V 16 Q. Was Mr. Alcorn an attorney for Union 17 Carbide? 18 A. Not to my knowledge. 19 Q. So, you don't know anything -- you don't 20 recall ever having seen this letter before? 21 A. I don't recall seeing it. I'm not denying 22 that I did, but I don't recall seeing it. 23 Q. That was the question, you don't recall 24 seeing it? 25 MR. BISSELL: Could we see that NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. ' UCAREF00013295 96 1 down here? 2 MR. CAROSO: I want to state for 3 the record, that was what was produc_ed . 4 to me by Union Carbide, and God only 5 knows what was on that second page. 6 BY MR. CARUSO: 7 Q. We talked earlier with regard to the 8 people who might have been involved with the 9 formulation of warning wording, and you mentioned 10 people from legal, people from medical, people from 11 asbestos management. Could you tell us who some of. 12 these people are that we were talking about? Let's 13 start with legal. Was there an in-house legal person 14 at Union Carbide who would have consulted on the 15 warnings? . V 16 A. Well, there was a -- Union Carbide had a 17 legal department or law department, a law division. 18 I can't -- let me think. I remember one lawyer's 19 name who was a metals division lawyer. I think he 20 was still in the law department, but handled metals 21 division matters, a R. F. J(. Fusaro, F-U-S-A-R-O. 22 And I know the "R" stood for Robert, I don't know the 23 other. 24 Q. Robert Fusaro. Do you remember anybody 25 else in the legal department? NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013296 97 1 A. John Sibley, S-I-b-L-E-Y. I don't recall 2 any other names. , 3 Q. As far as what you've called asbestos - 4 management -- is that the term you used, "asbestos 5 management"? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Who would those people have been? Could 8 you give me their names and titles, around 1968, when 9 we think the first warning was put on the bag. 10 A. I think I can speak to the period like 11 from '66 to '70, or '6-7 to '70. 1 think what would 12 be called -- the asbestos business was not a 13 department, it was not a division, and that's why I 14 refer to it as business, because it wasn't anything 15 you could call it offhand. I think the top man in V 16 the asbestos business was Frank Dexter. 17 Q. And did Mr. Dexter have some type of title 18 besides "top man"? 19 A. I'm not sure. No, I don't know. Maybe, 20 asbestos business manager. 21 Q. Was his office in Niagara? 22 A. No, in New York City. 23 Q. In New York. Do you know where he is 24 today? 25 A. No, I don ' t. NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013297 98 1 Q. Do you know if he's still with Union 2 Carbide? 3 A. I don ' t know. 4 Q. Can you think of any other people who were 5 in the asbestos business of Onion Carbide? 6 A. In that time frame, I think, also, was a 7 fellow named Norman J. Setter, which I think we have 8 already mentioned him. ' 9 Q. Yes. What was his position? 10 A. I think he was marketing manager or 11 involved with marketing. 12 Q. Did you replace him? 13 A. No. 14 Q. What was your title in 1970, marketing -- 15 A. Marketing manager. V 16 Q. And he was a marketing manager, too? 17 A. No, we weren't marketing managers at the 18 same time 19 Q. But you had the same job he had, later on 20 in time? 21 A. Bear with me a minute, I'm trying to 22 remember. There was another man, the man that I 23 replaced in marketing was Walter S. Young. 24 Q. When Mr. Setter had the job, was he in New 25 York City or was he in Niagara Falls? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013298 99 1 A. In New York City. 2 Q. When Mr. Young had the job, where was he? 3 A. In New York City. 4 Q. And then when you got the job, it was in 5 Niagara Falls? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Was Mr. Setter still with Union Carbide 8 when you left the company? 9 A. In 1985? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. I don't think so. 12 Q. Do you know where he istoday - 13 A. No, I don't. 14 Q. -- Mr. Young? 15 A. No, I don't know where he is. V 16 Q. So, we had Mr. Dexter, then we had three 17 people who you have identified in marketing, 18 including yourself. Was there anybody else who was 19 in the, quote, "management of the asbestos business"? 20 A. I'm sure there were other people, I can't 21 remember any names. ' 22 Q. Can you remember any other names during 23 any other time period involving the asbestos 24 business? 25 A. You mean during this 22-year period? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013299 100 1 Q. Say from 1968 to 1985, I guess. 2 A. Seventeen years? Anybody that was 3 involved in asbestos. 4 Q. In upper management. 5 A. Oh, upper management. In 1970, when I 6 became marketing manager, the business reverted back 7 to the metals division. It had been in chemicals and 8 plastics. So, there was then a new group of upper 9 management, all out of New York City, or out of 10 Danbury when they moved to Danbury. I reported 11 directly to a fellow named William C. Thurber. 12 Q. What was Mr. Thurber's position? 13 A. He was vice-president and product general 14 manager for tungsten, uranium, and asbestos. 15 Q. This would have been around 1970? 16 A. It was during the period of '70 to '85. 17 i'm not sure whether he was there in 1970 or not.' 18 Q. Do you know -- 19 A. I don'.t think he was there in '70. 20 Q. Do you know where Mr. Thurber is now? 21 A. He's in California, I Can't think of the 22 name of the city. 23 Q. Is it near San Francisco? 24 A. In the Silicon Valley area. 25 Q. Close enough. Do you know who he works NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013300 101 1 for? 2 A. He is with KTI Chemicals, a subsidiary of 3 Union Carbide. I should say, that's the last that I 4 know that's where he was. I haven't been in touch 5 with him for several months. 6 Q. Do you know anyone else who held 7 Mr. Thurber's position during this period of time, or 8 one similar to it? 9 A. Different people that I reported to, who I 10 would assume, because I was reporting to them, would 11 have been the business*management part, were Francis 12 J. Shortsleeve and James W. Rawlings. We're still in 13 the long period from... 14 Q. ' Yes. 15 A. J. F. Collins. He was not directly with V 16 asbestos. I reported to him. He was the marketing 17 manager for all of the metals division products.. And' 18 a fellow in between there at some point was George 19 something, but I cannot think of the last name. 20 Q. Do you know where Mr. Shortsleeve is 21 today? ' 22 A. No. 23 Q. Mr. Rawlings? 24 A. The last I heard, he was in Zimbabwe. 25 Q. Is he still working for Union Carbide in NELL MC CALLUM 4 ASSOCIATES. INC. ' UCAREF00013301 102 1 Zimbabwe? 2 A. No, I think he is United States Ambassador 3 to Zimbabwe. 4 Q. And Mr. Collins, do you know where he is? 5 A. The last 1 heard, he was in Niagara Falls. 6 Q. Still working for Union Carbide? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you know who he is working for? - 9 A. No, I don't. One of those other major 10 companies in Niagara Falls. 11 MR-. CARUSO: Sir, you have been 12 most cooperative. I thank you very 13 much. 14 1 will tender the witness. 15 EXAMINATION BY MR. JONES: 16 Q. I have a few questions. 17 A. Could I ask who you represent? ' 18 Q. I represent Atlas Corporation. My name is 19 Allan Jones. 20 Do you know anything about Montello's 21 involvement in the oil patch with Visbestos prior to 22 1968? 23 A. No. 24 Q. One thing I was not clear on, you 25 indicated that on the product - NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013302 103 1 (OFF-RECORD DISCUSSION) 2 BY MR. JONES: 3 Q. You indicated that in products sold with 4 the Calidria name on it, that the warning was on 5 there from as early as '63? 6 A. No, I did not. 7 Q. Or '68? 8 A. 1968 is when we began. 9 Q. Was that warning only on products that had 10 the Calidria name on it, or was it also on the bags 11 that had the Visbestos- name on it? I was unclear on 12 that. 13 A. It should have been. It was supposed to 14 be on anything we produced. 15 Q. Do you know from your own personal V 16 knowledge whether it was on the Visbestos bags or 17 not? ........ - 18 A. I know that it was on there at some point 19 in time. I could not swear that it was on there in 20 1968. 21 Q. And I take it from your answer, then, if 22 it wasn't on there from the beginning, you would not 23 be sure at what point it did start being put on the 24 Visbestos bags? 25 A. My belief is it was on starting in 1968, NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013303 104 1 but X have no personal knowledge that It was. 2 Q. With respect to Visbestos when Union 3 Carbide was supplying the asbestos, was this simply a 4 supplier-distributor arrangement? Did you sell the 5 asbestos to Montello, or were you getting a 6 percentage of the profit from the Visbestos sales? 7 A. Can you give me one question? 8 Q. Well, I'm trying to figure out whether 9 your relationship, with Montello was that Union 10 Carbide would simply sell asbestos to Montello, or 11 whether Union Carbide -was a joint venturer or had 12 some kind of shared relationship with Montello 13 whereby it got a percentage of the property from the 14 sales of the Visbestos. 15 A. The Montello-Union Carbide agreement was a *V 16 straight, regular, distributor agreement, or reseller 17 agreement, whichever term. ' 18 Q. Now, I will ask the question they are all 19 expecting. 20 Do you know anything at all about Atlas 21 Corporation? * 22 A. Anything at all? 23 Q. Yes. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What doyou know about Atlas Corporation, NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013304 105 1 if anything, with respect to the use of asbestos in 2 the oil patch? 3 A. The question I have is whether-- I know I 4 am familiar with Atlas asbestos. I don't know 5 whether that's "Company" or "Corporation." Is that 6 the same as Atlas Corporation? 7 Q. If I suggest to you that Atlas Asbestos 8 Company is different from Atlas Corporation, would 9 that be something you were hearing for the first 10 time? 11 A. I don't know whether necessarily for the 12 first time. I know there is more than one Atlas 13 Corporation. I'm familiar with the Atlas whatever 14 that ran the mine near Coalinga, California, that was 15 nearby the Union Carbide operation. > 16 Q. During what years? 17 A. I believe they were in operation shortly 18 before or shortly after we started, and I don't 19 remember when they closed down. 20 Q. Other than knowing that there was a 21 competing mine in Coalinga,* did you know anything 22 else about the company or its involvement in the 23 asbestos and oil viscosifier area? 24 A. As far as I remember, there were two major 25 applications for the Atlas fiber: One was in vinyl NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013305 106 1 asbestos floor tile, and the other was in the 2 drilling fluid area. I don't know what period of 3 time those took place. 4 Q. I take it you wouldn't know anything about 5 their sales or anything about where their product was 6 being used? 7 A. Other than what I have just stated, no. 8 MR. JONES: That's all I have. 9 Thank you. 10 EXAMINATION BY MR. ADAMS: 11 Q. I just have-a couple. My name is Kent 12 Adams, and I represent Milwhite. 13 Do you know if Montello ever mined any 14 asbestos themselves? 15 A. No, I do not know that. V 16 Q. Was it your understanding that Montello 17 purchased all of their asbestos from you that they 18 resold, from Union Carbide? 19 A. I think they started buying from us in 20 1968. I have no information on who they purchased 21 from before that. * 22 Q. Is it your understanding that at that 23 point Union Carbide was the exclusive supplier to 24 Montello? 25 A. Yes, I think that was the arrangement. _________________________________________________________________________________ NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013306 107 1 Q. You have no reason to believe that 2 Montello had any source of supply of their own, had 3 their own mine? .. 4 A. I have no reason to believe that. 5 Q. So, in other words, Montello was merely a 6 distributor of the asbestos product from Union 7 Carbide, purchased from Union Carbide? 8 A. Are you asking if that was the only 9 asbestos they distributed? 10 .Q. After '68. 11 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 12 Q. Now, do you have any reason to believe 13 that Montello would have had any knowledge of the 14 properties of asbestos, independent from the 15 knowledge of asbestos that they would have obtained V 16 from Union Carbide? 17 A. I don't think I would be in any position 18 to know what they knew. 19 Q. Well, let me ask it this way: Do you have 20 any reason to believe that Montello would have any 21 greater expertise with regard to asbestos than Union 22 Carbide would have? 23 A. Again, I'm not familiar with their 24 expertise or knowledge. I don't know whether it 25 would be better or more or less than Union Carbide. NELL NIC CALLUM 4 ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013307 108 1 Q. You just don't know? 2 A. 1 don't know. 3 Q. Okay, fine. 4 Now, with regard to placing warnings on 5 the bags, would it be reasonable -- do you believe it 6 would be reasonable for Montello to expect Union 7 Carbide to advise Montello with regard to what 8 warning should be placed on the product they were 9 purchasing from Union Carbide? 10 MR. WILLIAMS: Hang on a second. 11 I just got lost. Can we have that 12 either restated or reread? 13 MR. ADAMS: Let me rephrase it 14 again. 15 BY MR. ADAMS: V 16 Q. As I understand, Montello was a 17 distributor of the Union Carbide asbestos products 18 after 1968. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Would it' be your opinion that it was 21 reasonable for Montello, of would have been 22 reasonable for Montello to look to Union Carbide for 23 advice and instructions on what warnings ought to go 24 on those bags? 25 A. You're asking my opinion of what NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. U CAREF00013308 109 1 Montello -2 Q. Yes, sir. 3 A. i don't think I could render an opinion on 4 something like that, trying to speculate on what 5 someone else expected. 6 Q. Well, you're familiar with the 7 relationship between manufacturers and distributors 8 in the mineral mining and mineral industries in the 9 United States; is that a fair statement? 10 A. Well, I guess you would say I'm familiar; 11 I don't know how familiar I am. 12 Q. Well, would it be fair to say that a 13 manufacturer of a product is generally more 14 knowledgeable about the properties of that product 15 than a distributor? 16 A. Again, I don't know whether that would be 17 a fair statement or not. One distributor might be 18 much more informed than a manufacturer about a 19 product, at least some point in time. I just can't 20 speculate over what Montello knew in the specific 21 case that you requested or asked about. 22 Q. You just don't know; is that right? 23 A. I guess, if that's the way you would like 24 to phrase it. 25 Q. Did Union Carbide ever purchase any NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013309 110 1 minerals or manufactured products from any other 2 suppliers and then resell them, to your knowledge? 3 A. Any mineral? 4 Q. Yes, sir. 5 A. Oh, I am sure they did, yes. 6 Q. In those situations -- well, did you have 7 input into warnings to be applied to any products 8 that Union Carbide might have purchased from someone 9 else and placed a Union Carbide label on? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay, I will skip that, then. 12 A. I'm answering that as if you are talking 13 about minerals and not asbestos. You said minerals 14 and you were not referring to asbestos, you were 15 referring to any mineral? V 16 Q. Did Union Carbide ever purchase any 17 asbestos from other sources and place it in Union 18 Carbide bags? 19 A. No, not to my knowledge. 20 Q. What I'm getting at is: Do you have any 21 knowledge or opinions about who is in a superior 22 position to recommend a warning for a product, the 23 manufacturer or the distributor who has purchased 24 that from the manufacturer under a private label? 25 A. Probably, in most cases, the manufacturer NELL NIC CALLUM 4 ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013310 111 1 would take a lead role; but with some distributors, 2 again, they may have more knowledge than the 3 manufacturer. 4 Q. Why would the manufacturer take that lead 5 role in most cases? 6 A. I think you're getting into the philosophy 7 of marketing, but if a manufacturer was trying to 8 introduce a new product into the market place, he 9 would be looking for distributors; and in many cases, 10 the distributor, if this is a new product, would not 11 have been handling that product, and therefore the 12 manufacturer, the supplier would know what he was 13 talking about. 14 Q. Isn't it also just good common sense that 15 typically, unless you had an unusual situation, the 16 manufacturer of a product is going to be more 17 knowledgeable about that product than someone he 18 hires to distribute it for him? 19 MR. BISSELL: You are assuming by 20 your question a manufactured product, 21 rather than a naturally-occurring 22 element, I assume? 23 MR. KENT: Yes, that's right. 24 MR. BISSELL: I don't see the 25 relevance. NELL MC CALLVJM & ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013311 112 1 MR. ADAMS: The product in 2 question was patented by Sun Oil 3 Company. 4 BY MR. ADAMS: 5 Q. Let me rephrase the question. 6 Regardless of whether it's a manufactured 7 product or a naturally-occurring mineral mined by 8 someone, the entity that mines that mineral or the 9 company which manufactures the product, common sense 10 tells us they would have greater knowledge with 11 regard to that product, than the person or the company 12 that's hired to distribute that product; is that 13 true? 14 MR. TAYLOR: I object to the form 15 of the question as leading. I'm not 16 sure I understand it. 17 MR. ADAMS: You can answer`it, if 18 you have an answer. 19 MR. WILLIAMS: If you don't know, 20 just tell him you don't know. 21 A. Well, I wouldn't necessarily agree with 22 the opinion, and therefore I would say I don't know 23 if that's generally the case. 24 BY MR. ADAMS: 25 Q. Do you know anything about the details of NEU MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013312 113 1 the contract between union Carbide and Montello with 2 regard to the sale of this asbestos product? 3 A. I have been familiar with details of that 4 contract, yes. 5 Q. Was there any limitation placed on 6 Montello in regards to labeling the product, that 7 you're aware of? 8 MR. WILLIAMS: You mean in the 9 contract? 10 MR. ADAMS: In the contract.. 11 MR. WILLIAMS: If you recall. 12 A. I can't recall if there was a section on 13 labeling. I'm sure the contract is probably 14 available, but I don't know, I don't recall. 15 BY MR. ADAMS: V 16 Q. When Mr. Caruso was asking you about the 17 warnings that Montello placed on the product, he 18 asked you whether or not Montello could have changed 19 that warning label if they had wanted to, and you 20 answered yes, they could have. I wanted to ask 21 you -- ' 22 MS. CLARK: That wasn't his 23 answer. 24 MR. WILLIAMS: That wasn't his 25 testimony. NELL MC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES, INC. ' UCAREF00013313 114 1 A. There are some errors in there. First of 2 all, to my knowledge, Montello did not put any labels 3 on the packages. You can check the testimony that I 4 gave, but I believe I responded that if Montello did 5 wish to change any part of the label, that they would 6 not have done that independently. They would have 7 contacted the appropriate Union Carbide people and 8 offered a proposal and then there would have been 9 some discussion of that, some decision made between 10 the two entities. 11 BY MR. ADAMS: 12 Q. Well, I apologize. I obviously 13 misunderstood your earlier testimony. That's my 14 mistake. 15 V Why is your answer such as it is? Was 16 there some contractual limitation on Montello 17 changing the format of the bags? 18 A. As X said, I don't remember whether or not 19 bag labeling was addressed in the contract. 20 Q. Why do you answer - 21 A. I think if a supplier is lending his name 22 to a material that's being introduced in commerce, 23 he would not want that information changed without 24 being consulted. 25 (OFF-RECORD DISCUSSION) NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013314 115 1 BY MR. ADAMS: 2 Q. That's got so fouled up, I'm sorry. 3 A. why don't you restate the question. 4 MR. ADAMS: Can you read the 5 question back? 6 COURT REPORTER: "Why is your 7 answer such as it is? Was there some 8 contractual limitation on Montello 9 changing the format of the bags?" 10 MR. WILLIAMS: Was there a 11 contractual limitation, if you recall. 12 BY MR. ADAMS: 13 Q. You gave an answer, and I didn't hear all 14 of i t. 15 A. Okay. V 16 Q. You can repeat your answer, if you recall 17 i t. 18 A. My answer was that I don't recall if there 19 was a specific item in the contract dealing with bag 20 labeling. 21 Q. But there was some additional part to your 22 answer, such as the manufacturer had some interest in 23 making sure the labeling wasn't changed without their 24 consultation? 25 A. I think you asked the question why would NELL NIC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013315 116 1 Union Carbide care what Montello did, and I said that 2 in my opinion, and in any cases if I was a supplier 3 of a product in a package, shipping this out to 4 various customers, I would not want a distributor who 5 would have the option to change that label or that 6 marking or the packaging without consulting with the 7 manufacturer. 8 Q. Why is that? 9 A. I think that could jeopardize the 10 manufacturer. The distributor might choose to put a 11 -- to cover up a warning label or the place of 12 manufacture, and I don't think any supplier would 13 want that to happen. 14 MR. ADAMS: Thank you. 15 I pass the witness. V 16 EXAMINATION BY MR. TAYLOR: 17 Q. Mr. Myers, my name is Bill Taylor, `i 18 represent Sun. . 19 When was it, sir, that the idea for this 20 application of chrysotile asbestos was developed? 21 A. I can't recall a specific date, but it was 22 after my -- well, I transferred to the asbestos 23 operation from the Oak Ridge -- from the Paducah 24 operation in 1966 and the product was produced in 25 King City in 1968, so the idea may have come earlier ____________________ ;____________________________________________________________ NEU MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013316 117 1 than that, but it was culminated during that period, 2 obviously. 3 Q. You're speaking of Union Carbide's 4 application of chrysotile asbestos. Z guess my 5 question is in general, when was that idea first 6 developed? 7 A. I have no idea. 8 Q. Do you know how it was first developed? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Do you know who firstdeveloped it? 11 A. I know that- Sun Oil has apatent on the 12 application. 13 Q. How do you know that? 14 A. By I was made aware of that and remember 15 having copies of the patent from Hontello, and then V 16 paying a royalty for that use of that patent. i'/ Q. Witn respect to the warning label that has 18 been marked as Exhibit 2, and I think you've 19 testified that in 1968 a warning label, whether it 20 was that particular wording or not, was placed on 21 Union Carbide's asbestos drilling mud bags; is that 22 cor rect? 23 A. I testified that to the best of my 24 knowledge, that warning label -- a warning label, 25 that one or similar to it, was placed on all packages ________________________ __ _____________________________________________________ NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013317 118 1 leaving King City. 2 Q. And my question is: Would that be true, 3 that is would that warning or one similar to that be 4 placed on all of Onion Carbide's products that 5 contained chrysotile asbestos -- that is the asphalt 6 you testified to, the ceiling tiles, and the floor 7 tiles -- or was it simply placed only on the bags of 8 drilling mud? 9 A. It was placed on all bags. I remember one 10 exception to that of a customer who was exporting one 11 of our products and they requested that we not put 12 the warning label on. So, this was an exclusive 13 agreement, this was prior to the OSHA requirement for 14 labeling. The packages were loaded, as I recall, in 15 a container in King City, and not opened until they V 16 were delivered in the foreign country. Other than 17 that one exception, my best recollection is that the 18 warning went on every other package that was shipped, 19 whether it was drilling mud, roofing compounds, floor 20 tile, or whatever. 21 MR. TAILOR: That's all. Thank 22 you. 23 EXAMINATION BY MR. MARSHALL: 24 Q. I represent Drilling Specialties Company 25 in this lawsuit. . NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013318 119 1 Does the chrysotile asbestos at the San 2 Benito mine have a water content? 3 A. Are you speaking of the ore, in the 4 naturally occurring? 5 Q. Yes, sir. 6 A. Yes. The ore body that we mine normally 7 contains 18 to 20 percent moisture in the ore. 8 Q. Has that level of water in the ore 9 remained constant over the years, or has it increased 10 or decreased significantly? 11 A. The years w-ith which I'm familiar, it's 12 remained the same. 13 Q. And that would include the earliest years 14 that you're familiar with, 1963, did you say? 15 A. That's when I -- no, that's when the V 16 operation was started. 17 Q. And your familiarity started which year? 18 '68? 19 A. I moved to the asbestos operation in '66. 20 I have no reason to believe that it was anything 21 other than 18 percent. ' 22 Q. When the ore is milled at King City, after 23 it is processed there, are there any changes in the 24 water moisture content of the product? 25 A. Well, it's a hygroscopic material, so when NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013319 120 1 we package it/ normally the water content ranges from 2 1 to 3 percent, but if stored in a high humidity, i 3 think that could go to 4 or 5 percent. 4 Q. What is it about the milling process used 5 by Union Carbide at the King City mill that removes a 6 portion of the water from the ore? 7 A. How do we dry the product? 8 Q. It is an intentional drying? That was my 9 question. How does the water content get lowered? 10 Is it something intentional, or is it a by-product in 11 the milling process? How does that work? 12 A. Well, the first thing we do to the ore is 13 add water to make a slurry, and the final step is to 14 remove that water down to a 1 or 3 percent range. 15 Q. The processing, the milling process used 16 by Carbide, and now by KCAC, at the King City mill is 17 a wet process in which water is added? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. Do you know whether or not other -- excuse 20 me. 21 Has it always been that sort of process or 22 have there been changes over the years? 23 A. It's always been the same hydraulic 24 beneficiation process. 25 Q. And then as a final step or a final stage NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013320 121 1 of that processing of the ore, the water is removed 2 down to 1 percent, it's dried out? 3 A. Yes, 1 to 3 percent. 4 Q. And is that 1 to 3 percent water content 5 in the finished product as it leaves the mill, is 6 that the same for all the different labels that the 7 product has gone out under? 8 A. Yes. As I said, the products that we 9 produce, the final product that's put in a package 10 ranges from 1 to 3 percent. 11 Q. Does the finished product at the King City 12 mill have a particular standard that it can be 13 measured against, as far as its physical 14 characteristics? 15 A. We do different types of quality control V 16 checks., depending on the application to which the 17 product is going to be used. 18 Q. Are there standards for fiber length that 19 the finished product should have, sir? 20 A. No, this deposit is all one fiber length. 21 It's all short, very short "fiber. 22 Q. It's my understanding, sir, that a 23 Canadian asbestos, for example, has different 24 standards, Canadian 1, Canadian 5, different numbers 25 associated with it. Are there similar standards for NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013321 122 1 the Coalinga-type ore? 2 A. no. 3 Q- Are you familiar with the term Canadian 7, 4 sir -- 5 A. Yes. . 6 Q. -- as a standard? 7 Can you compare for me, sir, the physical 8 characteristics, including fiber length, of the ore 9 rained and milled by Carbide to Canadian 7 standard? 10 A. The ore mined by Union Carbide contains 11 only short-fiber chrysotile asbestos. The process 12 that we use is a wet process, and it's not used by 13 any other manufacturer. The Canadian Grade 7, as I 14 understand it, is a kind of a by-product of the 15 Canadian operation. The Grade 7 product from Canada, V 16 I don't know what the fiber lengths are, but they are 17 m general longer than the Calidria fibers, and they 18 are also not as pure. 19 Q. Define "pure" for me, sir. 20 A. We generally promote our products as 21 having over 90 percent fiber. They are probably over 22 95 percent fiber. In a more typical Canadian grade, 23 you could get maybe 20 to 30 percent of ground-up 24 rock dust, rather than fibrous asbestos. . 25 Q. What is the length of the fibers in the NEU MC CALLUM k ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013322 123 1 Union Carbide asbestos, chrysotile? 2 A. We don't monitor that on a continuing 3 basis, but based on prior data, they would average 4 about 5 microns in length. 5 Q. What is your understanding of the fiber 6 length of Canadian 7? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. Then, help me to understand, sir, if you 9 don't know what the fiber length of the Canadian 7 10 is, what is the basis of your understanding that the 11 Union Carbide fibers are shorter than Canadian 7? 12 A. Just literature that I have read stating 13 that. I don't recall that I -- I mean I don't recall 14 a length for Canadian fiber. 15 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge, sir, V 16 that no chrysotile asbestos from the Carbide mine 17 ever wound up ultimately being used in the oil fields 18 prior to 1968? 19 A. May I -- 20 MR. WILLIAMS: Do you mind if we 21 have that one again? I got lost. I'm 22 sorry. 23 BY MR. MARSHALL: 24 Q. This is a follow-up to your testimony that 25 you did not market, that is Carbide did not market NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013323 124 1 chrysotile asbestos for oil field use until 1968. My 2 question to you, sir, is a follow-up to the testimony 3 that you had manufactured or had mined chrysotile 4 asbestos from 1963 to 1968 at that mine, and the 5 question is, sir: Do you know whether or not any of 6 the asbestos from '63 to '68 ever wound up being used 7 in the oil fields? 8 A. To the best of my knowledge, it did not. 9 Q. And what would be the basis of your 10 knowledge that it was not used? That is, how could 11 you follow the ultimate use of all of the asbestos 12 mined there from *63 to '68? 13 A. I can't. I said, to the best of my 14 knowledge, it was not. 15 Q. You don't know whether it did wind up V 16 being used in the oil field or not? 17 MR. WILLIAMS: That's not what he 18 said. 19 A. To the best of my knowledge, I do not 20 know. - 21 BY MR. MARSHALL: 22 Q. Do you have any definite knowledge that it 23 did not? 24 MR. WILLIAMS: He just said to 25 the best of his knowledge, he did not. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013324 125 1 A. That's the way I would prefer to answer 2 the question, the way I did answer it. To the best 3 of my knowledge, I am not aware that any Union 4 Carbide asbestos ended up in the oil field prior to 5 1968. 6 BY MR. MARSBALL: 7 Q. But so that the Jury listening to this 8 answer will not be confused about what you mean, sir, 9 you're not able to deny, are you, sir, that some of 10 that asbestos might have wound up being used in the 11 oil patch during those- years; are you? 12 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm going to 13 object to that. That's the third time 14 you have attempted to rephrase the 15 question. He does not have to answer V 16 it in your words. He has answered in 17 his words the same way three times 18 now. 19 Don't answer that question. 20 Certify it, if you would like. 21 BY MR. MARSHALL: ' 22 Q. I take it, sir, you are going to follow 23 the instructions of your lawyer and not answer the 24 question, which was whether or not you were able to 25 deny -- ________________________________ NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013325 126 1 MR. BISSELL: The instruction was 2 don't answer it again. He has 3 answered about three tines. 4 MR. WILLIAMS: I would suggest 5 you follow my advice. Just tell him 6 you are going to follow my advice. 7 A. Yes, I am going to follow counsel's 8 advice. 8 BY MR. MARSHALL: 10 Q. Okay. 11 Regarding the contract between Montello 12 and Union Carbide that you said you had some 13 familiarity with, was that amended or changed over 14 the years? 15 A. I don't recall. I'm sure that it probably V 16 was, but I don't recall any specific changes. 17 Q. You characterized it as a distributorship 18 agreement. I would like to ask you, sir, whether or 19 not at any time Montello ever participated in any 20 manner in the profits or the losses arising out of 21 the sale of chrysotile asbestos? 22 A. You mean did they make any money on their 23 sales? 24 Q. No, sir. The question was whether or not 25 Montello in any way participated in any profits or NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013326 127 1 any losses arising out of the sale of chrysotile 2 asbestos, as a part of the agreement? 3 MR. WILLIAMS: You mean by 4 Montello, profits made by Montello? 5 MR. BISSELL: Be's asking about 6 whether or not Montello made a profit. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm completely 8 confused. 9 MR. ADAMS: Wait a minute. He's 10 not asking you the question. Why 11 don't you see if he can answer the 12 question. 13 MR. WILLIAMS: I think I am 14 entitled to understand. 15 MR. ADAMS: You can object. 16 MR. WILLIAMS: I can't object if 17 I don't understand it. All I am 18 asking -- if you would like to have it 19 read back, that's fine. 20 MR. ADAMS: I think what he is 21 asking is did the agreement call for 22 Montello to share in the profits or 23 losses from the sale of this product. 24 Is that right, like a joint 25 venture agreement? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013327 128 1 MR. HARTMAN: Why don't you just 2 read back Mr. Marshall's question and 3 let the witness respond? 4 MR. BISSELL: The question, as I 5 understand it, does Montello make 6 money if they sell the product. 7 MR. MARSHALL: No. 8 MR. WILLIAMS: Let's start over. 9 A. Are you asking me if Montello shared in 10 Union Carbide's profits? 11 BY MR. MARSHALL: - 12 Q. Or vice versa. I'm asking if there was 13 any sharing of the profits and losses of the sale of 14 chrysotile asbestos by Montello or by Carbide, as a 15 part of their arrangement? V' 16 A. If we shared profits with Montello of our 17 business or if they shared profits with us? 18 Q. Or vice versa? 19 A. Like a kickback or something? 20 Q. Yes, sir, as a part of a distributorship 21 agreement? ' 22 A. NO. 23 Q. Let me tell you what I am trying to ask. 24 You denied it was a joint venture. That's sort of a 25 legal conclusion. I'm merely asking what the details NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013328 129 1 of the contract are to determine whether or not there 2 may have been such an arrangement, even though you 3 might not characterize it as such and a lawyer might. 4 Do you understand? 5 A. I could maybe summarize the contract, at 6 least as far as I -- 7 MR. WILLIAMS: Just wait a 8 minute. Let him ask -- 9 BY MR. MARSHALL: 10 Q. Would you summarize the contract, as far 11 as you understood it. 12 MR. WILLIAMS: With regard to 13 sales or profits? 14 BY MR. MARSHALL: 15 Q. With regard to how the money was made. 16 A. It was my understanding that we would sell 17 asbestos to Montello FOB King City, California, and 18 they would distribute it to customers, to their 19 customers as they saw fit. There was no other 20 financial arrangement between the two companies. 21 Q. Was there any price differentials as a 22 function of volumes? 23 A. Not that I recall. 24 Q. Were there any price incentives that were 25 designed to have the volume promoted of the product, NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. ' UCAREF00013329 130 1 so that you get a lesser price for - 2 A. Not that I recall. 3 Q. Did the contract ever contain any 4 indemnities by which Union Carbide would indemnify 5 Montello in lawsuits of any kind? 6 A. I think there was an indemnity clause/ but 7 I don't remember any details whether it discussed 8 defending --- but I don't remember the details. 9 Q- Did the indemnity in that clause flow from 10 Carbide to Montello? 11 A. As remember, it went both ways, but I 12 don't remember the details. 13 Q. Is it true that Johns-Manville at one time 14 also had a mine in the Coalinga area? 15 A. Yes. V 16 Q. What is the distance of the former 17 Johns-Manville mine from the San Benito mine of 18 Carbide? 19 A. I don't know. You mean in miles? 20 Q. Yes, sir. 21 A. Probably five of ten miles. I really 22 don't know. I have never been to the Johns-Manville 23 site. 24 Q. Was the Johns-Manville mine in the same 25 formation as the San Benito Carbide mine? NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013330 131 1 A. To my knowledge, there is only one 2 deposit, and all three operations -- Atlas, 3 Johns-Manvi11e, and Union Carbide -- were operating 4 in the same deposit of asbestos. 5 Q. Are there any differences, physical 6 differences -- let me start again. 7 Are there any differences in the, physical 8 characteristics of the ore at different locations in 9 the Coalinga area? 10 A. Not to my knowledge. Although, as the ore 11 reaches the end somewhere, I'm sure there would be 12 different purities and different -- other 13 contaminates in the ore as you reach the edge of the 14 deposits. 15 Q. Are you aware of any differences in V. 16 physical characteristics between the chrysotile 17 asbestos at the Union Carbide San Benito mine, and 18 the chrysotile asbestos at the Johns-Manville mine in 19 Coalinga ? 20 A. I have never seen any such comparison and 21 I am not aware of any differences or similarities. 22 Q. Does the milling process at the King City 23 mine -- 24 A. There is no milling process at the King 25 City mine. ________________________________________________________________ ________________ NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013331 132 1 Q. Excuse me. 2 A. I mean, there is no King City mine. 3 Q. There is no' King City mine, thank you. 4 Does the milling process at King City 5 shorten any of the fibers from their length, as mined 6 at San Benito? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Does the process do anything other than 9 open up the fibers as mined? 10 A. Well, I don't know what you mean by "open 11 up." The ore is processed to get rid of impurities 12 in the ore and to provide a fibrous product. 13 MR. MARSHALL: That's all I have. 14 Thank you, sir. 15 RE-EXAMINATION BY MR. JONES: 16 Q. I have got one question. 17 In response to some-of Mr. Adams' 18 questions, you were talking about the marketing 19 relationship, and you said assuming that you had a 20 manufacturer or a miner who was interested in 21 marketing its product, it would look for a supplier 22 that would help him market that; and under those 23 circumstances the manufacturer or supplier might have 24 more knowledge about the item. Do you remember that 25 answer? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013332 133 1 A. Something like that. I wouldn't swear 2 that that was -- 3 Q. That's a rough paraphrase. By the same 4 token, if you have someone that's looking to market a 5 product, a nd they are going around looking for 6 suppliers, you would expect them to have a better 7 knowledge of the product than the people that were 8 suppliers; would you not? 9 A. That's a conclusion that I would have no 10 idea. 11 MR-. JONES: Okay. That's it. 12 (WHEREUPON THE DEPOSITION WAS CONCLUDED) 13 14 15 V 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013333 134 1 THE STATE OP TEXAS: 2 COUNTY OP JEFFERSON: 3 I, JOHN LESTER MYERS f hereby certify that 4 I have read the foregoing transcript of my testimony 5 given in the foregoing"numbered and styled case, and 6 that the same is true and correct to the best of my 7 knowledge and belief. 8 I further certify that any and all 9 corrections have been made on a separate page and 10 initialed by me. 11 Thisday of, 1988 . 12 13 14 15 JOHN LESTER MYERS 16 17 SWORN AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME this 18 day of, 1988. 19 20 21 22 NOTARY PUBLIC 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013334 135 1 THE STATE OF TEXAS: 2 COONTY OF JEFFERSON: 3 I, JOYCE ANN SMITH, a Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter, hereby certify that the foregoing testimony 5 was given before me after the Witness had been first 6 duly sworn. 7 I further certify that this deposition was 8 prepared under my direction and is a complete and 9 correct transcript of the proceedings; and that it is 10 being given to the Hon. Daniel J. Caruso. 11 I further certify that I am neither 12 attorney for, related to, nor employed by any of the 13 parties to the lawsuit in which this deposition was 14 taken. Further, I am neither related to, nor 15 employed by any attorney of record in this cause; nor V 16 do I have a financial interest in the matter. 17 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BY ME IN Beaumont, 18 Texas, on this day of {^7Di6au> \, 1988 . 19 20 21 Certificate No.: 22 Date of Expiration: 23 Address: JOYCE ANN SMITH, CSR, RPR, CM Texas CSR No. 2463 December 31, 1989 Nell McCallum & Associates 24 87 IH 10 North, Suite 111 25 (409) 838-0333 Beaumont, Texas 77707 NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013335 1 2 3 4_ 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 v 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MYERS EXHIBIT NO. 1 136 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. UCAREF00013336 INTERNAL CORRESPONDENCE JNION CARBIDE CORPORATION 270 PARK AVENUE, NEW YORK. NEW YORK 10017 , t iaco).on Cop, ' Mr. John A. Riddle Chemicals & Plastics P. 0. Box K King City, California 53930 on January 19, 1968 ' orttUurtiatopi Medical Amw*rl*f iMw Mt Dear John: The relation between crocidollte and mesothelioma seems to be pretty strongly established by experience in South Africa and elsewhere. The relation between chrysotile and mesothelioma is not clear. If it exists, it apparently is much less prounced than that shown by croc idolite. The limit of 5 MPPCF that we- observe in our operations is still recognized in the United States as satisfactory for chryso tile, but there is strong feeling that it is much too high for crocidollte. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see supplied-air respirators recommended for handling the latter. In our own operations with chrysotile, I feel that we should try to control the dust to levels as far below 5 MPPCF as reason ably possible. That is, I don't believe we should be content with control that Just maintains the level at 5 MPPCF. Actually, this figure is known &s a threshold guide and not a level that strictly defines safe and unsafe conditions. There is some thought that metals associated with asbestos either from the ore or from milling machines, etc., may be part of the problem. Investigation is underway to evaluate this potential; and as soon as I hear more about it. I'll let you know. PWMidmf oooo'v; DISTfQUTION J A Ricjle l F Crew s & R O " -i W E r>-:3^P A A. #-r i-ads fj C- C :-.:e n S:n:rcf5 Q J L Vye-s K. A Wood 0 S Kprrens Q C Jsssels K. Wesr Q Very truly yours 9 Paul W. McDaniel Industrial Hygiene Engineer a n a: 8. -/2)Y/a [EXHiBrr RECEIVED JAN 22 1969 U.C.'C. CHEM- 6-PLASc TICS UCAREF00013337 137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MYERS EXHIBIT NO. 2 NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013338 <W`013$ CAUTION i^2 37 3b Contains Asbestos Fibers Avoid Creating Dust rl exhibit mo JOYCe's^lTH Breathing Asbestos Dust May Cause Cai4aII0 D#l#lfltf Ui-- UCAREFOOOI3339 \olidi3a DO NOT DUPUCJE THIS FORM REQUEST AN ORIGINAL \ N ORATION \ Material Safety Data Sheet m Cefcdns Caraaman laqussa tnat user* of "Catola' audy the dm aneet aaceme seats of * product and promon salt handtog of fha product by mafcn) w--w mow 9 smpto>saa. apara. ai l nseM. CaHdrta Corpormuon (quest* that me ba hsniahsd a copy alma dan *n*at and i baton a aa atnptojaea, i SECTION I PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION 1 Product None: CALIDRIA ASBESTOS. Chenical/Alloy Naae: Chryaotilc Aabaacoa. 1 Synonyna: Aabaacoa, Whita Aabaatoa, * Hydracad Magnesium Silicata. C.A.S. Numbera: 1332-21-4, 1309-38-2 Fornula/Composition: M*a(OH)nSi40io'Feia& 1 SECTION XI PNTSICAL DATA : 1 Sites: 3/8" pallata to powder. 1 Spacifie Gravity: 2.43 approsiaately. (H20-1). Solubility in Water: Vary slithtly soluble. -Malting Point: F (C) Dehydrates above 1112 (600). . 1 Odor: Nona. Beilins Point: F (C) Not applicable. ' Appearance: White fibrous solid or pallata. H Bulk Density: 15-45 lb/ft3, packaged. (Depends on product fora.) Vapor Pressure: Not applicable. Percant Volatile: Absorbed HjO 1-41 by weight. Structural Htf) " 131 by weight. Molecular Weight: 1 Not applicable. * Evaporation Bate: Not applicable. /n y t K b *- 1 ..... - -- - SECTION III HAZARDOUS IOCBEDIENTS rvunrr kin 3 1 //~y- E JOYCE SMITH | . Chrysocile Asbestos (1332-21-4) '95-*MT 2 fibers/cc longer than 5u (l)(2)(3)(5) 10 fibera/ee longer chan Su. ceiling (1)(2)(3)(5) 0.1 fibera/ec looser than 5u (4) 0.2-0.5 fibera/ec looser than 5u (1) (Proposec Magnetite FeiOt (1309-38-2) 1- 0.5-2 - 5 ns/eu a respirable dust 15 ns/cu n total dust 10 ns/cu n toeal dust (1)(2)(5) (l) (2)(3) itn l toMttit itta.teat i t ate imiaa I CatUrii Istanal UMart Emergency H.E.L.R Telephone: 304-744-3487 tcoono Cafldna Corporation POBc* K. King City. California 93930 UCAREF00013340 138 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MYERS EXHIBIT NO. 3 NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES. INC. - UCAREF00013341 v'llidrla V DO NOT DUMJCAJE THIS FOWM REQUEST AN ORKSNAL A N ORATION___________________ _______________ . Material Safety Data Sheet CmCowMii^MianolXiMli'MMM Mudy Ms dm Mua Mceme aeae **** deduct* MHt and prameaaale handing el daan*a^rfflafcm0ewMa maBcnaiaaaniacitMitipie|iaaa.aga>a.andoBnwcwa.d>id i --aoW. CaHdrta Canporanon lequena dial tha be handnad a oopy of eia dai anaai and adwed >e Hfcrmaitnn twnm a aa mdO)cw. apwm and SECTIOM 1 PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION 1 Product Manic: CALIDRIA ASBESTOS. Cheaical/Alloy Mane: Chryaotile Aabeaces. 1 Sjrsooru: Aabeatoe, White Aabaatoa, Hydrated Magnesium Silicate. C.A.S. Humbert: 1332-21-4, 1309-38-2 Foraula/Coapoeitioo: Mg*(OH)ftSi40io+PeiOfc 1 SECTIOM XI PHYSICAL DATA I Siaea: 3/8" pelleta to powder. 1 Specific Gravity: 2.45 approximately. (H20-1). 1 Odor: Mono. Appearance: White fibroua aolid or pelleta. Bulk Denaity: 15-45 lb/ft3, aa packaged. (Dependa on produce form.) Molecular Weight: Not applicable. Solubility is Water: Very slightly aoluble. MeItinf Point: P (C) Dehydrated above 1112 (600). Boilins Point: P (C) Not applicable. Vapor Preaaure: Noe applicable. Percent Volatile: Abaorbed R2O 1-4Z by weight. Structural H9O " 13Z by weight. Evaporation late: Noe applicable. k. \/i t a c r ..................................... cEsnca in- hazardous ingredients mmnr hh 3 //-^/ oe/ JOYCE SMITH Material or Coaponent (CAS ) Weight 1TEL Beta (TWA Paleaa Hotad) Chrysocile Aabeatoa (1332-21-4) 95-94! 2 fibera/ce longer than Su (1)(2)(3K5) 10 fibera/ec longer than 5u. ceiling (l)(2)(3)(5) 0.1 fibera/ee longer than 5u (4) 0.2-0.5 fibera/ee longer than 5u (l; (proposed Magnetite FeiO& (1309-38-2) ataaaMd tata.iaai 0.5-2 - 5 ag/cu reapirable duet 15 ag/cu a total duet 10 ag/cu a total duet ll)(2)(S) (l) (2)(3) a aii I CatMrl* tMinat Emergency H.E.L.R Telephone: 304-744-3487 TO0000 Calldria Corporation P.O. Bax K. King City. California 93930 UCAREF00013342 SECTION V FIRE AND EXPLOSION DATA c*lidri * Asbestos n't Combustibility: Not combustible. Flammable Limits: Wot applicable. Flash Point (Teat Method): Not applicable. Explosion Tendency; Hoc applicable. Autoignition Temperature: Not applicable E7 Extinguishing Madia: Use media appropriate for surrounding --terial ia fire situation. Special Fire-Fighting Procedural: Avoid media and procedural chat cauae airborne dust. ' Personnel involved in fire-fighting should use NIOSH/MSKA-approved self-contained breathing apparatus and full protective clothing.__________ Unusual Fire and Explosive Hazard; See above. SECTION VI REACTIVITY DATA Stability: Stable (Teaperatures in excess of 1112 F (600 C) cauae loss of bound water). Conditions to Avoid: Hone. Hazardous Decomposition Products: Hone. Material to Avoid: None. SECTION VII SPILL. LEAK, AND DISPOSAL INFORMATION Steps to be Taken if Material is Spilled or Released: Avoid breathing dust. Notify Safety personnel of spill. Perait only trained eiean-up personnel in the spill area. Use vet methods or approved vacuua cleaning systaa to pick up spilled materials. Use vater or ocher dust suppressants where sweeping ia unavoidable. Do not ' stir up dust. Clean-up personnel should wear approved respirators and . protective clothing. Haste and contaminated protective clothing oust be placed _________________ in dust-tight containers and be! properly labeled for diapoaal. t Neutralising Agents: Not applicable. , _ .................. ........... _ . , Wasle Disposal Method: Rags, friable asbestos, waste and scrap material should be disposed of I ia a manner whieh will avoid airborne concentrations of asbestos, such as the use of dust-tight trash bags or containara. Such containers should be labeled in accordance with AO CFR 61.20. Asbestos is also classified aa a hazardous material under CHA 307(a) and has a reportable quantity of one pound. Deposit I waste containers in a secured landfill in accordance with Federal, State, and local regulations. _____________ r SECTION VIII SPECIAL PROTECTION INFORMATION Ventilation: Provide adequate exhaust ventilation and capture filtration to remove asbestos particulate from the workplace and minimise its dispersion into the environment. Isolate work areas and post signs where asbestos contamination may exceel PEL. Hand- or power-operated tools whieh may release asbestos in excess of the PEL must be equipped with local exhaust systems. UCAREF00013343 139 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MYERS EXHIBIT NO. 4 NELL NIC CALLUM 4 ASSOCIATES. INC. UCAREF00013344 V/-7/7/ Confidential Special Report 34-70 7 Pages R: 9-3-71 ' Chemical Hygiene Fellowship MELLON INSTITUTE Carnegle-Mellon University Calldria Asbestos-Rasln Grads RG 244 Tracheal Insufflation of Rst Lungs with Interpretation of Pathology after 30. 60. 90 and ISO Days Editor: C. P. Carpenter Contributors! D. L. Geary, Jr., E. R. Klnkead, R. C. Myers, D. J. Nechrelner For: UNION CARBIDE CORPORATION, Chemicals end Plastics Operations Division Sample A 500-jtraa sample of Resin Crade RC 244 UCC Calldria Asbestos was received 11-30-70, from King City, California, pursuant to arrangements cade by Paul McDaniel of the Kev York Office. The sample was identified by the Chemical Hygiene Fellowship 33-251. Tracheal Insufflation A II suspension of the RC 244 sample was prepared in 0,851 saline. All needles, syringes and suspensions were sterilized prior to use. Either 1 cl or 0.5 ml amounts of the sterile 1Z suspension were injected into the rst lung through the trachea, exposed by blunt dissection, after a midline cervical incision* Following injection of these 200 to 300 gram, male albino, Harlan Vlstar rats the ^nclstons were closed with Michael wound clamps until heeling ensued. A total of 13 rets were dosed vlth 1 ml and 15 with 0.5 ml of the 1Z suspension while 11 control rets received 1 ml of sterile 0.85Z NaCl. Three rats from each asbestos dosed group and 2 controls ware killed for histopathologic examination of the lung after intervals of 30, 60 and 90 days which left groups of 4, 6 and 5 rats on the 1 ml, 0.5 ml asbestos and control for the 180 day sacrifice. Summary of Microscopic Pathology Found 30. 60, 90 and 180 Days Following Tracheal Insufflation of Rats The 30-day pathology was marked by the presence of granulation tissue with thickening of the structural elements of the lung (strosia) and the accumulation of giant cells often associated vlth foreign bodies. U01HW5? UCAREF00013345 Report 24-70 Peg* 2 After 60 days one rat on the 0,5 nl dosage level had inflatmation and In-* grouch of connective tisaua which blocked a terminal bronchus. Two of 3 rats on both the 1.0 and 0.5 nl dosage level had atelectasis (collapse) of one or more lobes of the lung. Fibrotlc foreign body nodules were present in all cases. After 90 days there was chronic foreign body pneumonia in 2 of 3 rats at both dosage levels, flbrotic foreign nodules in 3 of 3 and emphysema in 2 of 3. Chronic inflammatory cell foci and atelectasis were present. Bronchioles were dilated in 2 of 3 rats on both dosage levels and all but one on both dosage levels had some lung hemorrhage. ( The final 180 day sacrifice revealed interstitial pneumonia in 4 rats on the 0.5 nl dose. This la a chronic form of pneumonia of interstitial tiasue with decrease of the normal lung tissue. Atelectasis was present in the 4 rata on 1 ml and on 1 rat on the 0.5 ml doss of asbestos with the 5 controls normal. Fibrotlc foreign body tissue was present in all dosed lungs vlth none in the controls. Pink hyalin material was found in 2 of 4 lungs from rats on the 1 ml doss while in 3 of 4 there was a bluish homogeneous material evident. In essence, a total of 10 of 13 rats on the 1 ml dose and 12 of 15 on the 0.5 ml dose had fibrotlc foreign body nodules or tissue. There vers 3 cases of emphysema on the high dose and 4 on the low dose end 1 in the control. Atelectasis (essentially collapse of lung alveoli) was present in 9 rats on 1 ml and 6 on 0,5 ml of asbestos with none reported in the controls. In general, because of the over whelming preponderance of effect in the asbestos dosed lungs versus the controls, we have sufficient evidence of damage to warn us to do our best to prevent inhalation of concentrations of asbestos in sxeess of ths Threshold Limit Value proposed for 1970, (Threshold Limit Values of Airborne Contaminants and Intended Changes. Adopted by ACGIH for 1970. American Conference of Governmental Hygienists, 1014 Broadway, Cincinnati, Ohio 45202), Summary Tables for each of the four eacrlfieas are included. Detailed pathology reports on eech animal are available and copies can be furnished if the need for then arises..A literature review prepared in .connection with another request for information is attached although not requested. - Acknowlod'r.ence: Inhalation Studies Typed: September 7, 1971 - md Charles F. Carpanpar, Fh.D. Administrative Fellow Daniel L. Geary, Jr., K.Ed. Research Aaaoclate Edwin R. Kinkaad, B.S. Fellow Roy C. Myers, B.S. Research Assistant Donald J. Nachreiner, B.S. Research Assistant A2373 J UCAREF00013346 Report 34-70 Page 3 Table 34-19 Tracheal Ineufflatlon to Rate Sacrificed 30 Dave After Dosing f4 TOTAL mjyjER EXAMINED CROSSLY: LUNG: Number ExaDined Pneumonia Hemorrhage Pleural adhealone Stromal thickening Foam cell accumulations Granulation tiaaue foci Multinucleated giant celle Abacese bronchopneumonia Round cell aceumulatione TRACHEA: Number Examined Chronic tracheltle <M> CC) CO(C) CM) CM) (M) <M) CM) CM) CM) CM) Ml of IE Solution 1_ 0.5 0.0 33 33 33 10 12 32 32 33 32 01 00 33 00 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 1 The following tissues were examined microscopically on all animals: Lung, Liver, Kidney, Heart, Spleen, Adrenal, Thyroid, Parathyroid , Trachea and Esophagus. G - Grose M " Microscopic Table 34-20 Trachaal'insufflation to Rats Sacrificed 60 Dave After Dosing TOTAL NUMBER EXAMINED GROSSLY:A O <> -7 n ^ LUNG: Number Examined -- . Hemorrhage Pneumonia Atelectasis Edema Hemorrhage Atelectasis Flbrotlc foreign body nodules Bronchiolitis fibrosa obliterans KIDNEY: Number Examined Round cell accumulations HEART: Number Examined Focal myocarditis MUSCLE: Number Examined Purulent mass Large suppurative process, striated muscle ' CM) CG) CC) CG) CG) CM) CM) CM.) CM) CM) CM) CM) CM) CM) CC) CM) Ml of IX Solution 1_ 3"3 0 3 0 1 1 2 3 0 3 1 3 0 1 1 0.5 3 3 0 3 2 2 0 2 3 1 3 0 3 1 0 0 0.0 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 1 The following tissues were examined microscopically on all animals: Lung, Liver, Kidney, Heart, Spleen, Adrenal, Thyroid , Parathyroid , Trachea and Esophagus. G - Gross M - Microscopic UCAREF00013347 \ Report 34-70 Page 4 Table 34-21 Tracheal Insufflation to Rate Sacrificed 90 Day After Doting TOTAL NUMBER EXAMINED CROSSLYl LUNG: Number Examined Pleural adhesions Hemorrhage Edema Pneumonia ironic foreign body pneumonia. Fibrotie foreign body nodulea Emphysema Chronic inflammatory cell foci Round cell foci Atelectasis Bronchiectasia Stromal thickening Hemorrhage Inhaled blood KIDNEY: Number Examined Hydronephrosis Hydronephrosis Round cell focus TRACHEA: Number Examined Chronic tracheitis HEART: Number Examined Myxoid change, interotitium . Ml of IT Solution ,1 0.5 0,0 33 on* 3 3 <G) 0 2 (G) 0 2 (G) 3 3 (G) 3 3 CM) 2 2 <M) 3 3 (M) 2 2 00 3 3 00 0 1 00 3 3 00 2 2 00 1 0 (M) 3 2 CM) 0 1 (M) 3 3 (C) 0 0 00 0 0 CM) 0 1 CM) 3 3 CM) 2 1 (M) >3 3 CM) 0 1 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 1 0 3 2 3 0 all animals: Lung, Liver, Kidney, Heart, Spleen, Adrenal, Thyroid, Parathyroid , Trachea and Esophagus, C " Cross M - Microscopic 2373 UCAREF00013348 Report 34-70 Page 5 labia 34-22 Tracheal Insufflation to Rata Sacrificed 180 Papa After Doslnt TOTAL NUMBER EXAMINED GROSSLY: LUNG: Number Examined Edema Pneumonia Atelectasla Emphysema ' Emphysema Atelectasis Inhalation pneumonia Interstitial pneumonia ' Abscess bronchopneumonia . Suppurative bronchiectasis ' Acute bronchitis Lymphoid cell accumulations Foam call accumulations Fibrotic foreign body tissue Granulation tissue foci Fink hyalin material Bluish homogeneous material Numerous mononuclear cells Mucoid infiltration Proliferation bronchiole epithelium LIVER: Number Examined Bile duct proliferation Round cell foci KIDNEY: Number Examined Hydronephrosis Sand calculi Hydronephrosis Sand calculi Dilated tubules Pink casts Interstitial nephritis Cellular infiltration Slight tubular regeneration - Moderate tubular regeneration TRACHEA: Number Examined Acute tracheitis Chronic tracheitis Ml of IT Solution 1 0.5 . 0.0 46 5 00 4 6 5 (c) 2 0 (C) 4 5 1 1 <G) 2 0 1 (C) 0 0 1 00 1 2 1 00 4 1 0 00 1 0 0 0!) 0 4 0 00 0 0 1 00 1 0 0 CM) 0 0 1 CM) 3 0 0 00 2 1 3 00 4 6 0 00 0 1 0 00 2 0 0 CM) 3 1 0 00 1 0 0 00 2 0 0 CM) 0 0 1 CM) 4 6 5 CM) 0 2 1 00 1 0 CM). . -4 6- 0 5 CC> 0 1 0 CC) 0 1 0 CM) 0 1 0 CM) 0 1 0 CM) G 2 2 00 0 2 1 CM) 0 1 0 CM) 0 1 0 . 00 CM) CM) 01 00 46 3 1 5 CM) 1 0 0 CM) 0 4 0 The following tissues were examined microscopically on all animals: Lung, Liver, Kidneys, Heart, Spleen, Adrenal, Thyroid, Parathyroid, Trachea end Esophagus. c. - Cross M - Microscopic A23732 *" UCAREF00013349  Report 34-70 Pag* 6 Addingley, C. C. Asbestos Aabastoa Duat and Zca Measurement. Ann. Occup. Hvg. 9: 4 73 (1966)\ Anon. Occupational Hazards of Asbastos. CIS (International Occupational Safety and Health Information Centre.) (Abstracts on Asbastosis 1939 to 1967).. Collins. T. F. Asbestos the Lethal Dust. S, Afr. Med, J. 42t 218-9,(1968). As cited in Index Hedicus. 9(#8), 1968. p. 70. Committee on Hygiene Standards. Hygiene Standards for Chryeotlle Asbestos Dust. Committee on Hygiene Standards of the British Occupational Hygiene Society. Enterline, F, E. Asbestos-Dust Exposures at Various Levels and Mortality. Arch. Environ. Health. IS. p. 181, (1967). Kogan, F, M,; Svlrskii, E, L; Belobragina, C. V. Gig. Tr, Prof. Zabol. 13. pp. 9-12 (Russ) (1969). Hygienic Characteristics of the Dust Generated in the Production of Asbestos-containing Thermal Insulating Materials Asbestos Vermicullte and Asbestos Perlite. As cited in C.A. V. 72(26). p. 253(136090y) 1970. Parazzi, Elena, et al. Cytotoxicity of Asbastos Duets. Med. Lav, 1968. 59(10). 361-76 (Eng). Aa cited in C.A. Vol. 71, #2, p. 256(6374n) (1969). Report from a Working Group of the International Union Against Canear. The Association of Exposure to Asbestos Dust and Cancer* Ann. Occun. Hvg. 8, p 267, (1965). " Roach, S, A. Hygiene Standards for Asbestos. Ann. Occup. Hvg. 13. pp. 7-15, (1970). . Selikoff, Irving J., et al. Asbestos Exposure, Smoking, and Keoplasla. JAMA. 204. *2, p. 106/104, 1968. ' Timbrell, V., et al. A Simple Dispenser for Canersting Dust Clouds from-Standard Reference Samples of Asbestos. Ann. Occup. Kvg. 11. pp. 273-281*1968. Asbestosls Balzer, J. LeRoy. Industrial Hygiene for Insulation Workers. J. of Occup. Med. 10, n, (1968). Cross, Paul and R. T. P. deTreville. Experimental Asbestosls. Arch. Environ. Health 15. p. 638 (1967). Cross, P. and R. T. P. deTreville. Experimental Asbestosls, Studies on the Frogresalveness of the Pulmonary Fibrosis Caused by Chryeotlle Dust. Arch. Environ. Health. 15. 638-649 (1967). As cited in Industrial Hygiene Digest. 32 (05), Kay 1968, #449. McDonald, J. C., et al, Mortality in Chryeotlle Asbestos Mines and Mills of Quebec. Arch. Environ. Health. 22, 677-86, June 1971. As reported in the JAMA p. 1658, June 7, 1971, Vol. 216 No. 10. ' A23703 i UCAREF00013350 Report 34-70 Page 7 Dust Editorial. Asbestos!* in Urban Population*. JAMA 1961 732 (1966). Cross. Paul, et-al. Asbestos Versus Nonasbestos Fibers. Arch. Environ. Health. 20. pp. 571-578 (1970). " .-- Holt, P. F., J. Mills, and D. K. Young. The Early Effects of Chrysotile Asbestos Dust on the Rat Lung. J. Pathol. & Bacterlol.. 871 15-23 (1964). Hvr.ienlc Standards. Ind. Hvg. J,t 19(02). o. 161. (1958). Marr, William T. Asbestos Exposure During Naval Vessel`Overhaul. AII1AJ. 25 (03), pp, 264-268, May-June 1964. Thomson, J. G., and W. M* Graves. Asbestos as an Urban Air Contaainant. Arch. Pathol. 81: 45b (1966). Westlake, George E., Harlan J. Spjut, and Marilyn N. Smith. Penetration of Colonic Mucosa' by Asbestos Particles. An Electron Microscopic Study in Rats Fed Asbestos Oust. Lab. Investigation. 14t 2029 (1965). Analytical Crable, John V. Quantitative Determination.of Chrysotile, Amosite and Crocidollte by X-ray Diffraction. AIUA, Vol. 27 (03), May-June, 1966 - p. 293-298. Crable, John V., and Marta J. Knott. Application of X-ray Diffraction to the Determination of Chrysotile in Bulk or Settled Dust Samples. AULA, Vol. 27 (04), ' July-Aug,,1966 - p. 383-387. Crable, John V,, and Mart* J. Knott, Quantitative X-Ray Diffraction Analysis of Crocidollte and Aaoslte in Bulk or Sattled Dust Samples. A1HA, Vol. 27 (05), Sent.-Oct,, 1966 - p. 449-453. Lynch, Jeremiah P.., and Howard E. Ayer. Measurement of Dust Exposures in. the................ Asbestos Textile Industry. AlHA, Vol. 27 (05), Sept,-Oct., 1966 - p. 431-437. The Method For Determining Asbestos Dust Concentration, This publication sella for $1,00 and may be obtained from the Asbestos Textile Institute, P. 0. Box 239, Pomp tor. Lakes, New Jersey 07442. AIHA, Sept.-Oct., 1965. Review Tissue Response to Asbestos (Report of s Meeting by C. X, Davies). Ar.r.. Occup, Uyg, Vol. 13 pp. 241-245. Pergamon Press, 1970. 6 2 3 7 O'- UCAREF00013351