Document mGDxBJ2O1wQ04wzz2Gy7ODjb
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
6/1/01 Paul L. LeCour
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR BALTIMORE COUNTY
' STATE OF MARYLAND.
'.
IN'RE: BALTIMORE CITY-
'
ASBESTOS LITIGATION .
. ''
..................................................................................................................... *
- - ' )
GEORGE HICKS, et al . ,
''
.'Plaintiffs, vs .
) ).
)
)
)
>- .
)^CASE NUMBER: )J 2 4X0,000 0197
ACandS, INC., et al.,
)
Defendants.
CASES AFFECTED: GABRIEL NOVO
) CASE NUMBER:' ) 24-X-00-000003
The deposition of PAUL L. LECOUR, taken'
on behalf of the Plaintiffs, pursuant to Notice
.of Deposition of Genuine Parts, in accordance
with Rule 2-412 of the Maryland -Rules, before
Nancy L. Holloway, Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public, at 1201 West Peachtree Street,-'
Atlanta, Georgia, on the 1st day of June, 2001,
commencing at the hour of 10:03 a.m.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY,' INC.
1600 Northside Drive, N.W.
Atlanta, Georgia 30318
'
(404) 351-4577
.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. INC.. 404-351-4577
SCF-ABEX-3390
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
6/1/01- Paul L. LcCour
' ' Page 2
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2'
3 On behalf of the Plaintiffs; '
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4 MAJLK M. DUMLER. Esquire
.
' Parker, Dumlcr A Riel/, LLP
$
2200 Charles Center South
'
36 South Charles Street
6 Baltimore, Maryland 21201
7 . Ob behalf of the Defendant Genuine Pans Company*.
8 PATRICK R. RILEY, Esquire ' ,
Rile/. McNulty, Hrwiit 3l Sweicter. PC
9 - . 650 Wajhmgion Read
-
Suite 300
10 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15228 M On behalf of the Defendant Marcinom Corporation:
12 PATRICK C. SMITH. Esquire
Church A Hchi/T, Pa
'
13 2 North Charles Street
'
14 .
Suite 600 B&O Building Baltimore. Maryland 21201
15 On behalf.of the Oefrndam General Motors Corporation
(via telephone): '
,
16 PAUL I. DAY. Esquire
.
17 P iper & Mirbury
72S Smith Avenue
18 Baltimore, Maryland 21209 . ' ' 19 On behalf of (he Defendant Ford Motor Compaay
(via telephone):
.'
20 *
BRIAN ALAIN IEMIL. Esquire
.,
21 ,
yenable, Baetjcr A Howard ' 2)0 Allegheny Avenue
'
22 Towaon. MD 21204
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23 . 24
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IS ,
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1.
INDEX'
2
3 Examinations
Page
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Line
5 Crow* Examination................. ..9 10' .(8/Mr. Dusnler)
Direct Examination................. I7J 16
7 (By Mr. Riley)
B
9
10
11
12 Exhibits
Page Line
13
14 Plaintiffs1 Exhibit LcCour l... ..9 24
(Notice of Deposition Of
15' Genuine Paru) 16 Plaintiffs' Exhibit LcCour 2. . . . .1)
4
(Notice of Service)
Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 3... . .31 IS (AMMCO Pamphlet. How to
Grind a Bake Shoe 19 NOVOI10017-024) 20 Plaintiffs' Exhibit LcCour 4... ..33
(American Brakeblok zt Specifications for Lined
Brake Shoe Sets 22 NOVO50111-116) 23 Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour S...
- (AMMCO Tools and Equipment 24 for the Professional
NOVO 120309-378) 2S
. 13 23
21
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Page 4
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. Pgc J
' I APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: .
,
2 _ 3 .On behalf of the Defendant Borg-Warner Corporation
(via telephone):
4 '
PAMELA THOMAS BROACHE, Esquire
5 JOHN J. BOYD. Esquire
Lord A Whip
6 800 One Center Street
. 120 Wcst'Fayene Street 7 Baltimore. Maryland 2(201.
.
8 Ou behalf of the Defendant Volkswagen pf America. Inc.
(via telephone); *
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9
.
. LEONARD L L1PSHULTZ. Esquire
10
Ltpshula and Hone, Chartered
.
8650 Fenton Street
(I Suite 108 - Montgomery Center
Silver.Spring, Maryland 20910
12 ` On behalf of the Defendant Abes Corporation
'
13 (via telephone):
14 VINCENT A. ERRANTE, JR. Esquire
Coblcncc A Warner
)5
415 Madison Avenge
. New York, New York I00|7
16 1
17 .
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15 1 ` '
19 20
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21 22 '
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23 <4
25 *
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1
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`' . .
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I Exhibits (Continued)
Page Line
J Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 6....... 64
(Phetoeopio of Brake Shoes . .
4 and i Box. Rxyloc RS-263
N0V04122J-U0)
.
5
Plaintiff*' Exhibit LeCour 7....... 67
6 ' (Photocopies of Napa FLayloc
Labels
r NOvOj02jj-233)
i Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour S. .. .76
(Lntm: NOVOJOO?).
9 NOVOI07J9.740. NOVOIOTJJ.
NOVOI072J. NOVO 10727.
10 NOVOJM77) .
It Plaintiffs' Exhibit LcCour 9....... 79
(Lener dated <1/16/90,
13 From Mr. LeCour
NOVOI213IJ) '
13
Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 10... .101
l - (Abca Maim*} Safety Datasheets
novojoi:mh)
15
Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 11.... 10)
16 (Abcx Lining Maimal Safety
Data Sheets
13 NOVO)20J5-03I)
10 'Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour ll.. .101
(Allied Brake Shoe Drilled
19 Material Safety Data Sheets
NOVOI20544)57)
30
Plaintiffs* Exhibit LeCour (3. ..103
31 (FMSI 1915 Brake Shoe
IdeMtilcaiion Catalog
32 NOVOl20-65-336) '
13 24
2 7 11 12 19 19 19 3
, WHEELER REPORTING'COMPANY, INC.,'404G5M?77
Page 5
2 (Pages 2 to 5)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
I C(Ki*ta (CoMiimcd)
l.
ffc i,ww
J
UCm* M... .1 M
2
(FriciiM Mticrab
* Wrk htetka C<dc
HOVOMOOU0)* )
.
Plamriflk* &i&* UCm> I).. .120 17
HOVOS0002-00))
7'
.
Ftottu/TV bbibfc toCswf 14... .122
I (Uncr dated 11/7/17
HOVOIOWI)
'
2l
* '
FUiatifTg' thfcil LeCgwt JT... .122
|
10 (Hutawniif* Hdto novo*oij*i
'
FUii/&' Ehtan UOmi II,.. .121
(Unef datod 7/22/11
WOVOI71 J2l*)Ja and
Myno dated 2/10/01
.
KOVOI2IJOI)
2a
PU<qq(Ti' (ibtah LeCou* I*. ..129 12
(Mem dated 2/1 I/VI
HOVOI2I22I)
PU*i(Ti' Sabtati ItGows 20.... 129 (Mono dated 1/V91 NOVOl2(23i-J2?)
12
' ftaiad/nr* Eiltait L#Gft*r 21... .I2> (Umt dated 1/31/7}
MOVOI2I JddOdT).
12
PlwsoflY EafetaH LaCeor 21.. .131 (Vail Soto Jowraal Ad NOvCUOldd)
17
hsaufff tabtan LeCftv 22... .131 (fcfvtbnkt Atboio*Ffet
Boediai'lepncw NOVQ209929d4)
17
Exhibits (Continued)
Pipe Line
PlaiurifTs' Exhibit LeCour 24... ,133
(American Brakeblok Ad
NOVO50570.575)
PUinrinV Exhibit LeCour 75... .137
(Memo dated 9/7/8S
NOVOt 10407)
PIxinrifTs* Exhibit LeCour 26... .157
(Memo dated 9/7/88
NOVOU0409)
Ptaiodns' Exhibit LeCour 27v . .159
(Photocopies. Riyloc
Rcmxiiuficturvd Brake Shoes
Labels
.'
,.
NOVOII04I0) -
Plainrins1 Exhibit LeCour 28... .140
(Photocopies, NAPA Labeling
NOVO900D014)21).
Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 29... .141
(Photocopies, Raybcstos Labeling
NOV020049-05I)
'
Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 50... .142
(Lcner dated 10/26/71
.
NOVOS1105-104)
Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 51... .145
(Engineering Report,
The Travelers, By
Joseplt-E. David. Ill
NOVO202S7.50I)
PtaimilTs' Exhibit LeCour 52.., .147
(Repon, Trite Travelers
NOV020052-075)
25
3
)
19
12
16
17 .
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6/1/01 Paul L. LeCour
Page 6
Exhibits (Continued)
PBge Line
Plainiifft' Exhibit LeCour 33. . . .148
(Engineering Report.
The Travelers, By
David W. Classman
NOVO204IJ-432)
Plainiirfs' Exhibit LeCour 34___ 152
(Engineering Report
The Travelers, By
'
David W, Classman
s NOVO20433-44I)
'
9 Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 35... .162
(NAPA through 1975
`
lO NAPA Outlook Publication NOVO 11857-925) '
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i:
u
14
15
16
17
13
19
20 21 22
23
24
25
13 17
Page g
Page 7
Page 9
1 COURT REPORTER: Pursuant to the 2 disclosure law, I was retained for this
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3 deposition by Plaintiffs. 1 have no contracts '
4 with anyone, and everyone is being charged our
5 usual and customary rates for this deposition.
6 '
..
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7
' PAUL L. LECOUR.
' '
8 being'Hrst duly sworn, was. examined and-deposed -
9 as follows: '
.
10 ' CROSS-EXAMINATION
11 BY COUNSEL FOR THE PLAINTIFFS
12 BY MR. DUMLER:
13 Q. Would you stale your Ml name, please. .
14 A. Paul Louis LeCour.
.
15 Q. Mr. LeCour, my name is Mark Dumler. We met
16 just moments ago. You understand you're here as
'
17' a corporate designee of Genuine Parts Company?
IS A. Yes. 19 Q. I'm going tohave the court reporter mark 20 this as Exhibit I, which is the Notice of Deposition for
21 today, and ask you if you have had a chance to look at
22 that document before today?
23 A. Yes.
'
24 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour I wa? marked.)
25 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Have you also had a chance
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. -JOU.'Vri'M577
3,.(Pages 6 to 9)
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' Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
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6/1/01.-Paul L LeCour
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Page 10
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Page 12
1 to look i Exhibit A.to that deposition, which are the
1 yesterday.
.' '
2 areas of inquiry for today's deposition?
-
2 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'm sorry. That's the file
.3 A. Yes.
.
4 Q. Were there any areas on that Notice of
3 . you reviewed in connection with today's deposition?
4 A. Yes.
5 Deposition, Exhibit A, that you are unable to testify
5
Q. When did you review the document?
'
6 to today?
'! =
6
A. Several months ago.
7 A. No.
,
8- Q. Is there anyone at Genuine Pans who is more
7 Q. And you started that file when you began 8 working in Atlanta?
9 knowledgeable about any panicular area on Exhibit 1? .
9 A. Yes.
' 10 . A. No. '
'. '
10 Q. .What was the reason that you started keeping
11 ' Q. Is there anybody at Genuine Pans who' is
. II that particular file? .
-
.
12 equally as knowledgeable as you are about any topic
12 A. Because 1 wanted to know what had transpired
13 that's listed in the Notice of Deposition for,today?
14 A. No.
_
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' 13 over the years.
'
14 Q. So is this a file that's related specifically
15 Q. Is there anyone with whom you have consulted' 15 10 Genuine Parts?
16 prior to today's deposition to obtain information for
16 A. It's related to my business with Genuine
17 today's deposition?
17 Parts. '
'
18 . MR. RILEY: Objection as to it inquires
.
18 Q. When you say you wanted to know what
19 into attorney-client privilege. With the
19 transpired over the years, with respect to what issue?
20 exception of counsel, he can answer.
.
20 A. All product lines. -
. 21
' THE WITNESS: No. .
22' '' Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Are there any documents that
21 Q. So anything that was related to-a product line 22 or an issue which you were dealing with, you would put
23 you have reviewed in preparation for today's deposition? 23 in this particular file?
.
24 A. Yes.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What document have you reviewed?
,
25 . Q. I'm going to also ask the court report to mark
Page 11
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' Page 13
1 A. My personal.
' l this Exhibit No. 2) which is Genuine Parts Company's
2
Q. I'm sorry. Your personal file?
' 2 Answers to the Plaintiffs Case-Specific
3 A. Uh-huh.
3' Interrogatories.
4 Q. Where do you keep your personal-file? 4
(Plainlifls' Exhibit LeCour 2 was marked.)
5 A. In my office.
.
...
5
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Mr. LeCour, ifl could turn
6 Q. What is-contained in your personal file?
6 you to the back of this document, there's an exhibit
7 A. Correspondence.
, ' ' 7 . which lists the deposition transcripts. And your name
8 Q. What -
.
8 appears on there a couple of times.
9 MR. RILEY: Ifl can interrupt, were those
9 My question is: Are there any depositions
10 documents produced?
10 that you have given that do not appear on Attachment B
11 THE WITNESS: Yes, all documents were
II to the Case-Specific Interrogatory Answers?
12 fumed over to legal.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Is the personal file that you
13 Q. What other depositions have you given that are
14 maintain a file dealing with issues related to asbestos
14 not-on that Attachment B?
-
'.15 litigation? Is that why you maintained the file? 16- A.' No. It's just a general file.
.
IS A. It was personal business.
.
16 Q. No other depositions related to Genuine Parts?.
17 Q. When did you start keeping your personal file?
17 A. No.
.
IS A. Ever since I worked at the company -- well,
18 Q. And the personal business did not relate to
19 ever since I've been in Atlaota.
19 asbestos?
.
20 Q. What year was that?
20 . A. It did.
,
21 . A. 1976.
. 21 Q. How did it relate to asbestos?
.
22 Q. So the documents (hat were produced. I did see 23 a notation that says "Paul LeCour's File." That's the
22 * A. It was a company-owned business. And we were 23 called because there was a -- they wanted to know if our
'24 file you reviewed yesterday; is that correct?
. 24 company business ever used the products.
25
MR. RILEY: No. The file you reviewed
, 25 .
MR. RILEY: Clarify what company you're
. -
,
WHEELER REPORTING company; INC., 404-351-4577
4 (Pages 10 to 13)
i
Hickj, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
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' .6/1/01.- Paul L. LeCour
'
Page 14
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Page 16
1 talking about.
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2 THE WITNESS: LeCour Corporation.
3 Q, (By Mr. Dumler) What does LeCour Corporation
4 do?
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. 5 A. They did. They're no longer in existence.
6 They rebuilt clutches, brakes, water pumps, generator
7 ` starters, and alternators.
.
. -8 . .9
10 II
Q. What year did you give the deposition? ..
A. 1 don't recall.
Q. Was that a lawsuit filed against LeCour
Corporation?
,
.
12 ' A. No, it was not.
.
13 ' Q. Was it a lawsuit filed against a purchaser
14 from LeCour Corporation?
'
15 A. No, it was not.
.
16 Q. How was LeCour Corporation involved in that
17 litigation, if at all?
18 . A. It was an employee.
'
19 Q.. What was the nature of the lawsuit? Was it
20 an asbestos lawsuit? '
21 22 23 . 24
A. It was an asbestos lawsuit.
'
Q. Was there an allegation in that lawsuit that .
an individual had suffered from some type of asbestos
disease as a result of clutch or brake manufacturing?
25 A. I don't recall that.
'
i Q. Whit was your course of study? .
'
2 A. Industrial engineering.
.
3 Q. Whsi years did you mend the University? ,
4 A. That had to be around, let's say, '64, '65.
5 Q. Would you relate for me, please, your work
6 background sfter 1965.
.
'
7 A. Of course, 1 was working in the family
8 business. Then I was drafted Into the Army. I served
9 .in the Persian Missile System. 1 became honor graduate
10 of the class. So then 1 was asked to go to instructors
II training school if 1 wanted to go and didn't have to go
12 to Germany. So I took that. So I was an instructor in
'
13 the Persian Missile System.
'
14 After 1 got out of the Servlet, 1 went to work .
15 for Genuine Pans Company In New Orleans.
.
16 1 was In New Orleans from 19 - for Cenuine
17 Parts Company, 1971. And they moved to Atlanta in 1976.
18 And I've been here ever since.
.
.
19 . Q. Would you walk me through your positions with
20 the Genuine Parts Company?
21 A. 1 first started out in New Orleans as
.
22 a district sales manager; calling on the distribution
23 center itself oo Shrewsbury Road; NAPA Jobbers; and the
24 NAPA jobber customers, which are dealers, which could
25 have been independent garages or car dealerships.
. . Psge 15
- Page 17
1
Q. What was the reason for the inquiry about
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2 whether or not your products contained asbestos?
3 A. Well, the inquiry was did we use from - from
4 ' Bendix, we did use from Raybestos, did you use their -
5 products in our plant, Johns-Manville.
6 Q. Where wu the lawsuit filed; do you taow?.
. 7 A. In New Orleans.
8 ...Q. I'm sorry. What year did you give your '
9 deposition?
. .
'
10 A. 1 don't recall the exact year.
II Q. Can you give mesome general time frame?
12 A., Between -- I'll say the '70s and '80s.
13 Q. So sometime prior to 1980?
14 A. 1 said 1 don't know exactly when, so I told
15 you it's between the '70s and '80s, in that time frame.
16 Q. Earlier thanUS? I'm nying to get at
17 least - that's a pretty big gulf that we still have, '
18' the '70s and '80s. .
19 A. You asked me. 1 gave you a time frame.
20 Q. Could you relate for me. sir. your educational
21 background.
22 A. High school graduate. Attended University.of
23 Southern Louisiana, Southwestern. That's my education.
24 ' Q. Did you receive a degree? .
25 A. No. 1 did not.
.*
1 1 conducted electrical clinics, brake clinics.
2 and clutch clinics. These clinics were designed lo
3' inform the installers on the proper functions of our ' 4 products and what our products would do for them.
<
5 Q. Where did you go afler that position? '
6 A. I came to Atlanta. And I came.in as a product
'
'7 manager in Atlanta. And then I went from product
8 manager to product engineer. And then from product
9 engineer, I went to division director of product
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10 engineering.- Arid then from division director of product j
II engineering, 1 went to plant production manager. And '
12 ' from plant production manager, 1 went to new product
;
13 development. And then from new product development, 14 I went to division director of quality assurance, which <
15 1 hold that position today. . . ' ' 16 Q. What year did you go from being a product .
17 manager to a product engineer?
18 ' A. Basically, my responsibility didn't change. 19 The title did, to give a raise. We were on a freexe al
.
20 the time.
,.
21 So actually, the reason why 1 came to Atlanta
22- was to form the engineering-group, which the group was
23 myself and another person in cataloging, because I was
24 over in cataloging, how to catalog a product. So all
25 Iht. positions changed, bul the responsibilities were
.
. - Wheeler reporting company, inc,, 404-351-4577:
5 (Pages 14 to 17)
I
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc.,,ct a],
6/1/01.-Paul L. LeCour
Page 18
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Page 20
1 (he same. '
.2
Q. So basically you stayed in (he engineering
3 group from.1976 until today?
'
4 ' A. No. From - well, okay'. Up until I'went into .
5 being production manager, that changed the position.
. 6 Then 1 was over manufacturing in the plant.
7 Q. That's when you stoned as a plant production .
8 manager?
,
.9 ' A. That's correct.
',
'
. 10
Q. What year was that?
11 A. i'm going to say that had to be around 1991 or
. 12 '92.
13 Q. So from'76 to . "92. you were in the
'
14 engineering department?
15 A. Yes.
.
16 Q. What were your duties and responsibilities,
17 although your title may have changed, from T6 to ^l?
18 A. The duties were to buy the new part,'see If
19 that current - or the new part coming out for that
20 particular application was the same as the previous year
21 physically and. functional wise. .
'
. 22
if It was new, then we had to develop a new
23 part number. We had to develop a bill of materials.
24
If it was the same as, then we just brought
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' 25 . that -- consolidated that new OEM number into our
'I ''2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ir 12 13 ' 14 ' 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
parties -- for negotiating with the parties that
Genuine Pans bought faction materials from?
A. No, 1 didn't get into pricing at all. 1 was
'
strictly on the performance end ofiL And purchasing
could not buy it unless we said that it was a safe product.
Q. That was my neat question. You were
'
responsible for the safety of the faction material that was purchased?
A.' Absolutely.
' .
Q. Did you engage in any testing or oversee any
testing between "76 and '91 on the friction material? .
A. Anytime (hot we had a new formula, we pu( it
on our personal ears, my own car, my wife's can And we
would test it to make sure that it was a safe product.
that it would stop under all conditions that we could
simulate - not simulate - well, actually try to
duplicate.
And we did this in addition to receiving test
results from the supplier, the manufacturer of the
friction material.
.
They did what they call an LA traffic test on the friction material. And they would come in and say,
,
well, this is what it will do, this is great, you're
going to have all these features and benefits. We said.
. Page 19
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Page 21
1 current part number.
'
1 Hnt, thank you, send us some sets.
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2 . We also would approve the product, as far as
2 We would use those sets on, like I said, our -
-
3 functionality Is concerned. If you said you had
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3' personal cars aod our salesmen's cars.
;
4 a better starter drive than what we currently were
4
Normally, if it was a new formula, there were
.
5 buying, then you would submit it, and we would just run
5 maybe 100 segments made. And when they ran their tests,
6 tests on it. .
' " 6 it all looked good. But we were going to buy production
7 Q. What specifically were your duties or
7 batches. So we would use production batch samples, not
8 responsibilities wiih respect to brakes or brake parts?
. 8 laboratory batch samples. And that was the job.
9 A. The responsibility was (he processing of the
9 Q. Now, you were in the Atlanta factory or
. 10 brake shoes, that is, from delining them, cleaning them,
10 Atlanta plant? ,
*
II reattaching either through bonding or riveting.
, II A. 1 was in Atlanta plant.
-
12 I was responsible for the friction material
12 Q. Was there someone in your position in each .
'
13 that we used on the brake shoes and disc pads. I was
13 of the plants that were - each of the Rayloc plants?
14 responsible for the rivets that we used to attach the
14 A. Atlanta was home office to all the satellite
15 riveted segments. 1 was responsible for the packaging.
15 plants. Aod we did all the approving for the other
16 That's it.
.
16 plants. So they could not purchase anything unless it
17 Q. When you say you were responsible Tor the '.
17 was approved by Atlanta.
18 packaging, were you also responsible for the design of
. 18
Q. So ifsomething came oul of (he Hancock plant,
19. the packaging?
. 19 Tor example, you would have been responsible for
20 . A. As far as the.container is concerned, yes.
20 approving that particular product as well?
21 I was responsible for the container itself. None of the . .
21
A. Yes.
22 written information as to the labeling or any artwork.
22 Q. Was there, nonetheless, a product manager at
23 That was done by sales and marketing.
' 23 each of the plants? " ' .
24 Q. You indicated you were responsible lor the
24 A. No.
.
25 friction materials. Were you responsible for the
25 Q, Who held your position in the engineering
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, fNC., 404-351-4577
6 (Pages IS to 21)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al. '
6/1/01 Paul l. LeCour
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Page 22
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Page 24
1 department prior to 1976? ..
'
2 ' A. There was no position as mine prior to 1976,
3 as far as the job title and position. .
'
4 Q. Who performed the duties and responsibilities
5 prior to 1976 that you performed from'76 to '91?
6 A. It would have been Joe Huff.
7
Q. Where did Mr. Huff go after 1976?
. 8 . A.. He went to Hancock, Maryland.
9 Q.' What was his position?
10 A. Cencral manager.
.
II . Q. You indicated that you were not responsible
12 for what went on the packaging?
13 A. (Nods head affirmatively.) .
14 Q. Who was the person or department at either
15 Genuine Parts or Rayloc that was responsible for the
16. design of the packaging?
-
..
17 A. During what time frame?
18 Q. Well, let's start with'71 to'76. Do you
19 know who was responsible during that period of time?
20 A. That would have been marketing and sales.
21 Q. How about prior to 1971?
22 A. They really had sales department, they didn't
23 have marketing.
.
24 Q. And how about after 1976? . :
25 A. Marketing.
1 depositions. So in order to save time, 1 don't want to '
2 reinvent the wheel here.
'
3 But am 1 correct that in the 1920s, there were 4 a number of NAPA members?
5 . A. Yes.
6 Q. Has Genuine Parts purchased most of those
7 members as of this time?
-
,
8 . A. Yes.
.
.9 Q: How many members of NAPA art there today?
10 A. Three.
.
11 Q. How many NAPA members were there in the 1920s?
12 , A. 1 can only recall when it first started, about
13 28.
14 Q. Has NAPA purchased 24 of those original
15 members?
.'
.
16 A. 1 don't know if they purchased 24 or not.
.17 1 don't have that number. .
.
18 Q. When the original 28 were - with the original
.19 28 members, were they members from different areas of
.
20 the country?
. .
21 A. Yes.
.
22 Q. And has NAJPA - I'm sorry - has Genuine
23 Parts' expansion throughout the country coincided with 24 its purchasing of different NAPA members?
25 ' A: Yes.
.
'
.'
Page 23
' ''
. Page 25
1 . Q. In your position between 1971 and 1976. were
2 you responsible for ensuring compliance with any Federal
3 regulations? 4 A. Between '71 and prior to '7.6,1 was not
5 responsible for that.
.
6 Q. Who was responsible during that period of dme
7 for ensuring compliance with any Federal regulations?
8 ' .,A- That would have been the general managers of
9 the plant.
'-
16 Q. What were your duties and responsibilities
II after 1991 when you became a plant production manager?
i2; A. What my duties?
13 Q. Yes.
.
14 A. Responsibility for production, what was going
15 out of that plant, and the product, the end product
'
16 itself.
.
17 Q. It's my understanding that Genuine Parts was
IS incorporated sometime in the 1920s; is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 ' Q. And at that time, it was part of the
21 association that's referred to as NAPA; is that correct?
22 A. It was what now?
',
23 Q. It was a member of.NAPA: is that correct'.'
24
A. It was a member of NAPA, yes.
25 Q. I don't want to have to go through the other
1 Q. So in other words, if Genuine Pans wanted to
2 expand into a particular state, it may purchase a NAPA
3' member in that state?
'
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. When did Genuine Parts purchase - I'm 6 Sony - when did Genuine Parts move into the state of
7 New Jersey?
.
8 A. I don't recall. .
9 Q. 1 have seen in your Answers to Interrogatories
10 that Genuine Parts'opened a distribution center in 1966.
11 .Do you have any recollection of it in South
12 Plainfield --
'. .
.
13 A. South Plainfield? Yes.
14 Q. - opening in 1976?
.
15 A. lo the '60s. I don't recall the exact date.
16 Q; So sometime in the '60s, Genuine Parts began
17 to do business in the state of New Jersey; is that
18 correct?
19 A. Yes. '
.
.
20 Q. Did it purchase ah existing NAPA member?
21 A. 1 do not know.
22 Q. Can you led me what is the relationship
23 between Genuine Pans and Rayloc? . 24 A. We are a division of the Genuine Parts
25 Company.
'
'' ; . >
.
. WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.,' 404-351-4577
7 (Pages 22 to 25) .
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
.
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
''
P.ige 26
.
Page 28
1 Q. How long has Rayloc been a division of Genuine . 1 A. I do not know.
2 Pans?
'
3 . A.. 1 would say ever since we bought Collier.
4 And that's where the name Rayloc came from.
'
2 Q. Do you know who would know that? . 3 A. 1 don't know. No, 1 would not know the 4. individual at Balkamp that would have been responsible
5 Q. What year was that?
'
6 A. That had to be back in the '60s. 1 don't'know .
7 exactly the year.
.
5 for that because it was so long ago.
.
6 Q. Now, you mentioned that Genuine Pans had
7 a marketing division or a marketing and sales
'
8 Q. What other divisions or departments does the
8 department?
9 Genuine Parts Company have?
9 A. Well, no, not Cenuine Parts. Rayloc.
"
10 A. We have Balkamp that we are a partner in.
10 Q. Okay. Thai's my question. Are there separate
II We're not the sole owner of it.
.
1.1 ' departments or divisions for Rayloc and Genuine Parts?
12 We have a subsidiary, which is CIS. which is
12 A. Yes.
13 Electrical Insulator Electronic Supplies, nothing to do
13 . Q. What departments or divisions does Genuine
14 with automotive.
.14 Pans have?
15 We have S.P. Richards, which is office
15 A. Okay. As far as divisions, we are the Rayloc
16 supplies, pens and pencils.
.
16 division. And within the Rayloc division, we have
'
17 We also have.Motion Industries, which ire
17 a sales force, and we'have a marketing force.
18 bearings and hydraulic drive-systems, nothing to do with
18
Q. Does Rayloc have any other departments?
.
. 19 automotive.
-
19 They have a safety department, for example?
20 MR-RJLEY: To the extent that the
20 A. Yeah, we have a safety department.
21
question asked divisions versus subsidiaries, -
21 Q. What other departments does Rayloc have?
22 he's not qualified to give you what the
'
22. A. Human resources, maintenance. That's it.
23
legal -
. 23 Q. Does Genuine Parts have its own departments,
24 MR. DUMLER: 1 understand.
24 aside from Rayloc?
25 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Other than automotive pans,'
25 A. Yes.
Page 27
. ' Page 29
' 1 Genuine Parts is involved in other lines of business?
'1
Q. For example, does Genuine Parts have its own :
2 A. Yes.
_
2 human resources department?
'
3 Q. Do any of those other lines of business 4 incorporate asbestos or did they incorporate asbestos
'
3'- A. Yes. ' ' ' 4 Q. Which one of the departments in Rayloc would ;
5 into any of their products?
-
5 the issue of workers' safety from exposure to asbestos
;
6 A. Balkamp. .
.
6 fall under?
.
..
7 Q. What asbestos-containing products did Balkamp
7 A. Al what time period?
'
8 deal.with? .
''
'8
Q.- It's changed?
"
9 A. They sold an asbestos tape.
9 A. At what time period? 1
'
10 - Q. What years did Balkamp sell an asbestos tape?
10. Q. Okay. Let's start with I960 forward. In
11 A. 1 don't recall. -
'
11 I960, who had responsibility for it?
'
. 12 Q. Is it still manufactured?
. 12 A. 1 cannot speak on 1960. 1 can only speak
13 A. No.
.
.
14 Q. What year was it discontinued?
15 A-. I don't know that.
'
16 Q. Do you recall whether it was manufactured in
13 from 1976.
. 14
Q. 1976, which department had primary
15 responsibility for if?
16. A. .Well, it wasn't a department. It was the
'
17 the '60s and 70s?
.
17 general manager.
.
'
18 MR. RJLEY: Okay. For the record, he said
18 Q. At Genuine Parts, was there a corresponding
19 they soldi He did not say they manufactured.
19 person or department that would have primary
20 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Do you recall whether Balkamp 20 responsibility for safety of workers at Rayloc for
:
21 sold asbestos tape in the '60s and 70s?
21 exposure to asbestos?
22 A. It would have been in the - I cannot speak
22 A. At what time period?
' ''
23 for the'60s. 1 can speak for the'70s. Yes.
23 Q. Do you have any knowledge prior to 1976? .
24 Q. Who manufactured the asbestos tape that
24 ' A. No, as far as -- prior to 1976, no.
23 Balkamp sold? ''
25 Q. What knowledge do you have after 1976?
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404-351-4577
S (Pages 26 to 29)
Hick?, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., el al. '
'
6/1/01-.- Paul L.' LeCour
' ' Page 30
Page 32
1 A. The/ did not have an/one responsible at
. 1 went out in the box. It now came back to us. He had to ' .
2 Genuine Parts.
1
2 open the bos up. take the shoes out, look at them. .
3
Q. What department at Riyloc would you consider .
3 making sure that they're all good, there's nothing wrong
4 to be primarily responsible Tor any dangers or hazards
4 with them, put them back in.the box. That person has
3 posed to rhe purchasers of Rayloc products due to
.-
5 bern monitored. And we did not have down-draft tables
6 asbestos?
-
."
' ' ' 6 in that area;
7 A. Repeat that, please.
'.
7 . Q. We're going to get to all that. I'm just
.
8 Q. Sure. What department at Rayloc do you
8 looking for -- is (he answer to my question: After
9 believe had the primary responsibility for issues
. 9 1976 -
';
10 related to the hazards posed by asbestos to anyone who
10 A. Yes.
.
.
II purchased a Rayloc product?
II Q. - you were lhe person who would have been
12 A. With our product, there were no hazards of
13 exposure to asbestos, in our plant is where the hazards
14 were.
''
12 responsible for and made the determination that the 13 products you were.selling, brake shoes, brake pads. 14 were safe for the users of those products?
13 Q. I'm asking you what department you considered 16 to have primary responsibility for determining whether
15 A. No. I was not the person.
.
16 Q. Who was the person or department responsible
17 or not there were hazards?
. 17 .for making that determination after 1976?
18 A. That would have been the general manager.
18 A. The general manager.
19 ' Q. Of each plant?
19 Q. Of each plant?
'
20 A. Of each plant
.
21 Q. So there would be no one at Rayloc who would
20 A. Y es.
.
21 Q. Prior to 1976, what person or department was
.
22 oversee generally the decision of whether or not your -
22 responsible for making the determination that the
23 products had potential hazards lo users from asbestos?
23 products, brake shoes, brake pads sold by Rayloe were
' 24 A. When I arrived in 1976, they were performing
24 not hazardous to the users of those products? -
25 industrial hygiene tests, monitors, with vacuum pumps on 25
A. The genera] managers.
Page 31
Page 33
1 all workers that were exposed to asbestos. That was an
2 ongoing thing. It was in place when I got there in '76,
3 and It's still going on today.
4 That function was done by the insurance
5 company. And the insurance company would work with our
6 . maintenance people. And our maintenance people would be
7 the ones to calibrate the vacuum units and go out and
8 .work in conjunction with the insurance people.
9 Q. You indicated that your products were not
10 hazardous to the individuals who used the products.
11 My question is: Wfio at Rayloc would be the
12 person who would have ultimate authority for agreeing ,
13 or disagreeing with you on that issue?
.
14 A. Well, 1 myself, being responsible for the
15 processing of the product, knew that we were in
16 compliance with OSHA and CPA. We in fact had it down
17 to the level that we did not have to have annual chest
18 x-rays, because we put in vacuum equipment, down-draft
19 table], to ensure that our employees were safe.
20 The product, when it went into the bos, was
21 considered good, as far as being safe and not having
22 excessive dust In it.
'
23
The way I know that this product was safe is
'
24 we had a claisification'reiurn department and our rc-box
25 department. That department took the same product that
1 Q. Then after 1976, in your position in the ..
2 engineering department, you would have had some
3' interaction with the general managers with respect to .
4 that decision whether or not the products being sold
5 by Genuine Puts were hazardous to the users?, 6 A. That'discussion never came up. 7 Q. But with respect to your job title, you would
:
8 have had the ability to override their decision if you 9 believed there was a hazard posed by the sale of your
10 brake shoes or brake pads to the users? . if ' A. Oh, 1 could have expressed that, but that was
12 never an issue.
. .:
*
13 Q. Now, if you can turn to Exhibit 2, there's
14' a list, Attachment A, on the Answers to Interrogatories.
15 Do you see that Attachment A to the
16 Case-Specific Answers lo Interrogatories?
17 A. Uh-huh.
'
IS Q: Can you tell me what that attachment
19 signifies?
.
20 A. This is with the distribution center in South
21. Plainfield, New Jersey- It has the jobber listing. And
22 it'j dated December 1st, 1972.
'.
23 Q. What is the relationship between Genuine Parts
24 and ihe jobbers that are listed on that schedule?
25 A. Thev are customers of the distribution center.
.
'.
'9 (Pages 30 to 33)
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, rNC,,.404-351-457.7 .:
-.
1
Hicks, et al. v, ACandS, Inc., er al.
.
' 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
.,
Page 34
". . .
Page 36
1 Q. So if I understand the hierarchy here, Genuine : 1 . there, then they would not sell them.
.
2 Parts is a member of NAPA; is that correct? . .
. 2 ' Q. Does Genuine Paris owp any of the companies
3
A. Yes.
.
.
3 lhai are listed on Schedule B?
'
4
Q.. Genuine Parts owns the South Plainfield, .
4 . A. Just these two sheets (indicating)?
r 5 New Jersey, distribution center; is that correct?.
5 Q. Correei.
6 A. Yes.
" 6 A. No.
'
.
7
Q. Genuine Parts sells Rayloc products from the <7
Q. Now, you indicated that the jobber could
'
8 South Plainfield Distribution Center to jobbers? . .
8 purchase from another'supplier; is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
. 9 A. Yes.
.'
10 Q. And it would sell those -- Genuine Pans would 10 Q. But the jobber would not purchase from another
11 sell those Rayloc products to the jobbers listed on
11 Rayloc supplier; is that correct?
.
12 Exhibit B there?
. "
-
12 A. Yes.
.
13 . 14
A. . They might not.
'
Q. They might not be willing to purchase?
13 Q. in other words, if the jobber that's listed on 14 Exhibit B wanted a Rayloc product, ii would have to go
15 ' A. Because they could be buying from someone 15 lo Genuine Pans in the South Plainfield Distribution
16 else.
.'
16 Center?
. .
.
.
17 . Q. Okay. Are there written agreements wiih the 17 A. Yes.
' ' 18 jobbers that are listed on Schedule B there?
18 . Q. And if it didn't, the sanction would be -
19 A. No.
.
. . 19 it wouldn't be a NAPa jobber anymore? In other words,"
20 Q. Is there a written agreement between the
20 that's where it had to get its parts?
21 jobbers listed on Exhibit B and NAPA?
21 A. Oh, yes. .
*
22 A. No, there's not
. 22 Q. And to the - .
23 Q. So if a jobber in the area of South 24 Plainfield, New Jersey, has a NAPA sign on its door,
"23 ' 24
MR. RILEY: Hold it.
MR. DUMLER: I'll withdraw the question.
25 how does it get permission to use that NAPA sign?
25 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) And to the extent that
."
Page 35
'
'
Page 37_
1 A. It was established over a handshake. And once - . 1 the NAPA jobbers were not purchasing parts from the
2 you committed (o buy from the diitribution center, they,
2 distribution center, there wai no real reason to have
-3 in turn, would give you a protected territory.
3 ' that store as a NAPA jobber, correct?-
* 4 . Q. I'm sorry?
4 A. He could be a NAPA jobber and not buy Rayloc
5 A. They wouldn't sell to anyone else in a 2-mile
. 5 parts.
.
6 radius or 3-mile radius, whatever you choose to do to
6 Q. Could he purchase pans from (he distribution
7 service an area. They did it based on all ear
7 center that were not Rayloc parts?
8 registration.
8 A. V es.
.
9 Q. Was there a formula (hat was established for
9 Q. All right. Could a-NAPA jobber purchase .
10 a territory that a jobber would gel if it agreed to
10 bake pads or bake shoes from the South Plainfield
II become a NAPA jobber?"
,.
'
11 Distribution Center that were not Rayloc pans?
'
12 A. I'm not aware of it.
'
12" A. Yes.
.
'
13 Q. For example, in Meiuchen, New Jersey, that
. 13 Q. Would they have the NAPA logo or insignia on
14 jobber would go to a distribution center or the
J4 the box?
'
15 distribution center would go lo that jobber and say
15 A. No. Let me get that clarified.
"
16 whal?
16 ' Q. Sure.
.
17 A. Well, either way, normally they would go and
17 A. We're -- Rayloc was the only one that jupplied
18 say, hey, we want to sell some NAPA parts.
.
18 brake parts and clutch parts to NAPA distribution
19 If it was within that territory, they would go
19 centers. There was a time during the '70s when they had
20 to the current NAPA jobber and say, someone wants to
21 start selling some ports here, are you servicing this
.
22 particular area. The jobber says no. He says, would
.
20 an import line. And in that import line, it was
.
21 supplied lo NAPA from World Auto Parts. And they had
22 brake shoes, clutches, and discs, starters, wiper blades
23 you want to put a branch store over there to service .
23 for imports.
.
24 that area? No. Then they would sell them, lithe
24 So it would have been -- and 1 don't remember
25 jobber says, no. I'm servicing, 1 have accounts over
25 " what the -- you know, what it would have been sold
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404-361-4577
10 (Pages 34 to 37) .
I
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
.
Page 38
, .
/ Page 40
1 under, other than NAPA Import:. `
'
2 Balkamp told motorcycle brake shoe: and disc
3 pad: under the Balkamp.name. But that was Tor, like 1 .
4 say, a short period of lime. Then they discontinued it.
5 . They also sold Dana clutches. They had a new
6 clutch line. They sold Dana, Dana Spicer. We bought
7 out the Dana Spicer. We bought the imports, "we" being
8 Rayloc. And so basically Rayloc was itl
9'
But they didn't handle Bendix or Raybcstos
,
10 lined brake shoes in conjunction with Rayloc.
II Q. I'm sony. Who? 12 A. The distribution center. .
'
13 Q. So to the extent that a customer was to go to
14 a NAPA jobber in the South Plainfield, New Jersey, area .
IS and purchase a brake shoe, it's your testimony that if
16 that brake shoe came from Genuine Parts, it had to be '
17 a Rayloc brake shoe?
18 A. Yes.
.
19 Q. Now, I've seen reference to other brake shoes
20 with American SrakcBlok or Abex. Did the distribution
21 centers ever sell any box brake linings or brake pads '
22 that were not remanufactured?
.
23 A. Rayloc offered a new brake shoe, okay. All
24 of our disc pads are new.
-
.
2S Abex supplied linings only in thick block.
1 shoes and disc pads or remanufactured?
2 A. Rayloc sold new brake shoes, which did not
3 have Abex lining on them. They sold relined brake 4 . shoes, which did have Abex on them.
5 They sold new disc pads only, which had Abex
6 on them.
'
7 Q. Did Rayloc also package and sell brake linings
8 that someone could buy to pul on new brake shoes
9 themselves? 10 A. No.
.
11 Q. So if I'm a customer and I go to a NAPA jobber
12 berween 1971 and 1980, 1 can purchase new brake shoes
13 that have no lining in them; is that correct?
14 A. No, that's not correct. "
.
' 15 Q. All right. 1 can purchase new brake shoes
16 that are relined -- I'm sorry 1 can purchase - 17 walk me through it again.
18 MR. RJLEY: Let me interrupt. Okay. He
19 answered as to what Rayloc sold. Your question
20 is asking about a jobber.
'
21 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Okay. My question has to
22 do with what Rayloc products I can purchase.
23 I can purchase brake shoes from a NAPA 24 jobber -
25 A. Y es.
:
Page 39
.
,
. Page 4J
1 That would be 18-wheeJer trucks. And they supplied .some ..1
Q. - that are Rayloc brake shoes -
2 segments, which was for she smaller truck, but no lined
2 A. Yes.
3 shoe. And that's all they had from Abex, as far as
3' . Q. - Rayloc manufactures those brake shoes? -
4 their friction is concerned.
'4
A. Yes.
.
.
'
S Q. Okay. You lost me.
. , 5 Q. They contain asbestos?
6 MR. RILEY: 1 think he lost your question.
7 Try again.
6 A. Well, let me go back again. We don't . 7 remanufacturer -- we don't manufacture anything. We
8 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) All right. Let's back up
. 8 remanufacturer, we recycle.
'
9 then.' .
.
9 Q. Let me have you.explain then. What did you
10
What brake products did Rayloc Sell?
.
10 mean by the term "new brake shoes"? '
II
A. What brake products? We sold brake shoes and
' II
A. Okay. In the new brake shoe, you have a core.
12 disc pads. That's our brake produets. .
12 the old core. If I take the old core Bnd remove the old
13 Q. Were the broke shoes asbestos-containing lined
14 brake shoes?
.
15. A.. During what time period?
13 friction material off of It and I put new friction
. H material on it, that's called a rebuilt brake shoe.
_
15 When we say we have the new shoe, we go and
16 Q. I960 through 1980.
''
17 A. Well, 1 can't speak prior to 1971. But from
16 purchase the new metal, and we put the friction material 17 on new metal. So we just assemble, we don't
18 '71 up, they were asbestos, not 100 percent. - 19 Q. And the disc pads, were they
.
' 18 manufacture. . 19 Q. So the only difference between a new brake
20 asbestos-containing?
20 shoe and a remanufactured brake shoe, the
21 A. Some.
21 remanufactured, you're using the old core?
22 Q. Where did Rayloc get the linings or the pads
22 A. Yes.
23 to sell?
23 Q. So the things that 1 can purchase from Rayloc
24 A. The primary supplier was Abes.
24' from a NAPa jobber in New Jersey arc new brake shoes
25 Q. Was Rayloc distributing or selling new brake ' 25 that arc lined with asbestos, correct -
'
* .
;. WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404,351-4577
"11 (Pages 3S (o 41) ' .
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et a!.
.
' , 6/1/01Paul L. LeCour
.
Page 42 ,
'
Page 44
. 1 A. Yes.
2 Q. - remanufactured brake shoes (hat have the
3 old core and new lining with asbestos -
.
4 A. Yes. .
. '
s Q. - and new disc pads?
6 A. Yfj.
7 . Q. The disc pads that I'm purchasing from a NAPA
8 jobber that are from Rayloe are not remanufactured?
9 A. Correct. No. '
10 Q. Is there any manufacturing process that Rayloe
II does to those disc pads?
.
12 MR. RJLEY: Okay. We're talking
13 historical, correct?
'
14 MR. DUMLER: Right now we're talking 71'.
. 15 THE WITNESS: Time frame in the '70s.
16 . 17 '
MR. RJLEY: 1 just wanted to make sure the records clear.
.
18
THE WITNESS; Repeat your question,
.
19 please.
.
20 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Sure. Is. Rayloe involved in .
21 any of the process, HI call it manufacturing process.
22 with respect to those disc pads?
' ..
23 A. We assemble the friction material to the new
24 metal. In some cases, we don't do anything but package
25 them, because they are integrally molded instead of
1 manufacturer, used integrally molded disc pads, that's
2 what we would offer. If it was riveted, then we would
3 do the riveting.
' .
4 Q. In the new brake shoes that you sold that are '
.
5 not remanufactured but new, what are you doing to (he ' 6 brake lining to put it onto the -
.
7 A. We rivet it on, or we could bond it on.
8 Q. Is there any grinding that's done in
9 connection with that process?
10 At Yes, there is.
'
'
11 ' Q. Is the process that you use for new brake
12 shoes the same process you use for remanufacmred brake
13 shoes?
.
14 15 16 ' 17
' A. Yes.
Q. What aboul with respect to disc brakes? Is
there any grinding or sanding that's done in connection
with the disc brakes at Rayloe?
,,
18 A. No.
.
19 Q. Why not?
20 , A. It's not required. It's a flat surface.
21 They do it at the factory. It never has been.
22 Q. So any disc - any disc brakes - I'm sorry -
23 any disc pads that Rayloe sells are not pre-ground?
24 A. Yes, they are.
25 Q. Okay. Where are they grounded? At the
' '
.'
.
Page 43
' Page 45
1 riveted.
2 Q. What products dcryou assemble?
.
3 A. Riveted brake shoes, bonded brake shoes.
4 riveted disc pads.
'
5 Q. Which products, disc pads, do you simply
6 package and do not assemble?
7 A.. Integrally molded disc pads. -
'8 Q. What would be an example of integrally molded?
9 A. It has to be done at the manufacturer, let's
10 say Abex, where they take the steel backing plate, put
. 11 it down in the mold. Then they put the friction
'
12 material on top of it and put heat and pressure on it. .
13 And it comes out as an assembly.
-
14 . And there are large holes in there that
15 integrally join the two together. So there are no
16 rivets to attach the friction material to it.
17 Q. Is that 8 particular line or model number that
18 you're talking about?
19 A. It depends on the application, yes.
20 Q. Give me an example. Can you tell me what
21 model numbers or lines would be integrally molded as
22 opposed to those you would have to assemble?
23 A. It depended on the year and make and model of
24 the vehicle. It varied. And that's what we followed.
25. If the original equipment, original equipment
1 factory? 2 A. At the manufacturer, correct. 3' Q. But with respect to Rayloe, any disc pads that
' .
4 it sells, Rayloe does not do any grinding or sanding?
.
5 A. No, we do noL 6 Q. 1 want to see if you can clarify for me the
'
7 remanufacturing process that Rayloe goes through.
8 Where does it get the cores?
.
.9
A. The cores? From two sources, one from the
10 NAPA jobber; two, from core brokers; three is new
'
l.l manufacturers of brake shoes. 12 Q. Now, so NAPA gets the cores. Then what's the 13 next step -- I'm sorry -- Genuine Parts gets the cores. 14 Then what's the next step?- Walk me through the process 15 from the old cores through putting a new product In the
16 box. 17 A. The old core is brought back from the garage
,
18 to the NAPA store. Our truck goes and picks up the old .
19 brake shoe from the NAPA store. We bring it back to our ,
20 .plant. It is checked in in our plant by part number, by
21 jobber.
.
22 '
It then is - either the lining is chopped
23 off, or it's debonded through a debonding oven.
.
24 Q.- Is there a chopping or debonding department -
25 A. Uh-huh.
.
'' ' WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY,.INC., 404-351-4577.
12 (Page's 42 to 45)
Hicks,'et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
''
6/1/01 Paul L. LcCour
.'
Page 46
',
.
Page 48
1 Q. - or section of the factory?
'
2 A. It's a section, jure. .
.
3 Q.. All right.
.
4 A. We call It tear-down. - .
3 Q. Tear-down. Okay. That removes the old lining
6 , from the core?
7 A; That's correct, yes.
8 Q. All right. What's the next step after the
9 removal of the old lining?
10 A. Okay. The lining itself is properly bagged
II and done away with. And the shoe.itseif, the core, goes
12 to a steel shot machine, called basically -- better
13 known as a wheelabrator. That is a brand name, but
14 everybody calls them wheelabrator since they were king.
15 And the metal is cleaned.
16 From there, it goes into a dip. It's called .
17 a shoe prep. And it's like priming. Ifyouwantto
18 paint a car and you put primer on it before.you put the
19 paint because you want a good adhesion, well, this is
20 a primer.
'
21 Q. Let me stop you there. When you say "clean," .
22 is that to make sure that all the friction material is
23 off or just to clean it up?
'
.24 ' ' A. No. It's spotless.
'
25 Q. When it comes out of tear-down?
1 ai 435 degrees Fahrenheit for 21 minutes. It then comes
1 -2 out. And it goes up to the grinders, the precision art
' 3 grinders. A riveted brake shoe is riveted on. Then it
' 4 also goes up to the same grinders.
5 Q. So they separate. One goes to bonding, one
6 goes to riveting; but they both end up at the grinders?
7 A. At the grinders, correct.
.
8. Q. All right. What happens at the grinders?
9. A. At the.grinders, we use the specification
10 sheet supplied by the manufacture of the friction.
II material. That would be Abex. And we precision-grind
12 that lining to properly (it the application it's . .
13 intended to fit on.
14 Q. What do you mean by "application"? You mean
IS a particular car?
16 . A. Particular car, particular drum diameter,
17- uh-huh. And so there's no requirement for the installer.
18 to make any modifieation to that shoe whatsoever.
'
19 '
That's the whole intent and purpose of Rayloc,
20 is to take that type of (ask out of the hands of the
21 installer.
'
.
22 Q. When you say "particular drum diameter," is
23 that the same as saying a particular car?
'
24 A. It's by application, yes. It's by brake shoe.
25 So if this part number fits a Toyota and this part
.
' Page 47
..
'' '
Page 49
1 A. When it comes out of the wheelabrator.
1 number firs a Cadillac, we will have specifications
2 Q. So there's still friction material when it
. .2 on what the grinding arc does to fit those.'
3 leaves tear-down and goes into the wheelabrator?
.3
Q. Do the specifications indicate not only the
.
4 A. No. Therc.'s no friction material on there
4 make of car but also the model, in other words, your
S' at all. All the friction material is off of it.
5 particular brake shoe would be made for a 1977 Ford
6 Q. And that's at tear-down?
'
6 Mustang?
`
.'
7 A. That's at tear-down.
.
7 A. Yes. Our catalog says that. Our
8 . Okay.'And with the other?
.
8 specification sheet specifies the brake shoe part number
9 A. It's rusty. We have to get the rust off. So
.9 set itself.
,,
'
'.
10 it goes to the wheelabrator, and it comes out. It's
10 Q. So if a customer goes into a NAPA jobber, '
11 clean metal. It's shitty. Then it's dipped. This is
11 they have 10 order for a specific - they want to buy.
.
12 a hard dip. It's a mixture of alcohol and adhesive.
12 a Rayloc remanufactured brake shoe, they buy that-for.
13 shoe adhesive.
14 Then once it's dried, it either goes over to
. 13 a specific ear? .
. 14
A. Yes.
.
15 the riveting department, or it would go over to the
15 Q. I'm sorry. We were back at the grinding. .
16 bonding department.
16 Okay?
'
17 Q. All right. And what happens at each'of those?
17 A. Uh-huh.
IS A. At cacti of those? In the bonding department. . 18 ' Q.. Now, is there some particular reason that
19 ' the friction ma terial is applied to the table of (he 20 brake shoe by using a band and what wt call a spreader
'19 Rayloc needs to grind -- in other.words, could you have 20 purchased the friction material for that particular car
21 . table.
22 And we want to apply 100 to 125 pounds per
21 application rather than Rayloc itself grinding? 22 A. Because of the process and because of the
23 square inch of pressure to the lining and the adhesive
23 . recycled shoes, the only proper way to get the correct
24 and the shoe, because there is adhesive that's on the
24 precision finish is after the material is on that brake
25 back side of that brake lining. It goes through an oven
25 shoe.
-
' '
' ... WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404--351-4577.
13 (Pages 46 lo 49) '' '
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
.' .
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
' ' ' Page 50
. Page 52
1 That was the reason Tor grinding. That waa
.2 one of our selling points, that we precision ground
3 all of our brake shoes to properly (it the application
4 without you, Mr. Installer or Ms. Installer, having lo
' 5 ' modify anything. It goes right on. And you can get
6 another job in there.
7 Q. Your selling point as to your product versus
' S other products?
.
.9
A. Sure, yes.
.
10 Q. So it was Rayioc's. sales strategy to say, if
II you use our product versus another product, you don't .
12 have to grind?
..
13 . A. Well, that would be one.
'
14 . And the other is that you don't need to be
' 15 doing that, because there were people out there selling
16 equipment to grind brake shoes. That took a lot of
17 time. And it. was actually cost-effective for the garage
18 to get a pre-ground set so that they didn't have to take
19 the time to perform all those tasks.
.
20 Q. I guess my question is: You answered.the
21 ' reason that you couldn't purchase lining that was
22 already pre-ground is because that would not be an
23 effective way to manufacture or remanufacture a brake
24 Shoe?
.
25 A. That wouldn't have been the Rayloc way, no.
1 A. 1 kept it because this is exactly what we were
2 saying the customer didn't have to do. And we wanted to
3 know what was out fhere of what people were trying to
4 convince these installers of what they needed to do to
5 do the job' correctly.
.
6 Our price -- excuse me -- our product was
7 always at a premium price. So we went the extra step to
8 ensure that they didn't have to do any modification.
"
9 And to this, something had to be done after you received
10 it..
.
II Q. This came across your desk or you discovered
12 this. And you knew that this was basically what was out
13 there in the market. Your competitors were saying -
14 your competitors' products, people were selling and
15 explaining they had to grind those brake shoes? 16 A. 1 wouldn't say all.
'
17 . Normally the people that were out there
18 selling it were people (hat were selling a system 19 for you doing the complete relining, such as Star
20 Manufacturing, Star Riveting. They had the chopper.
21 They had linings that you would have to countersink and
22 drill holes in it and then .rivet the lining to iL 23 . And then, of course, after that, you're going 24 to grind It. That's what we were saying was not
'
25 necessary. .
.
Page 51
. PS' V
i Q. What would have prevented Rayloc from
2 purchasing a pre-ground friction material to put on its
3 brake shoes?.
''
4 A. What would have prevented us from doing so?
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. Well, in the bonding process itself, I mean '
7 you just can't have a product with non-machine surfaces
8 going together and then expect it to lit a machine drum 9 surface. So you just can't put the cart before the 10 horse. -
II MR. DUMLER: Let me have this (indicating)
' 12 marked as Exhibit 3.
'
.13 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 3 was marked.) .
14 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Mr. LeCour. 1 hand you
IS a document marked Exhibit 3, which is an AMMCO pamphlet
16 on how to grind a brake shoe. Have you ever seen that
'
17. document before?
.
13
-A. Yes, I have.
'
19 Q. When is the first time that you saw that
30 document; do you remember?
.
21 A. 1 don't remember.
'
22 Q. Is (his pan oTyour persona) file?
'
23 A. Yes, it is. .
.
24
Q. What was the reason that you kept this
.
25 . particular-document'.'
1 Q. Can you give me a time frame of what year you
2 first maintained a copy of this document?
3
A. That had to be in the '70s.
.
'4 Q. In the early or middle or later 70s?
5 A. The '70s.
.
.
6 Q. Does this pamphlet have any relationship to '
7 the grinding that's actually taking place in the Rayloc ;
8 facility?
9 A. Any relationship to it? 10 ' Q. Yes. Is Rayloc basically doing the same thing
11 in its facility?
'
12 A. We don't fixed-anchor grind; We cam grind.
13 Q. What's the di/Terence?
'
14 A. The difference is the way in which we grind
15 the contour of the shoe, that we can fit a drum that is .
16 a standard diameter or up lo its maximum limit, which ii
17 normally 60,000 over standard.
.
.18 In this type of application, doing
19 a fixed-anchor grind, you have to fit it specifically
20 to that one drum.
21'. Q.' You lost me.
. ..
22 A. You asked me. 23 . Q. In ihis application that's described w 24 Exhibit 3 is what you understood to be going on in
25 garages with auto mechanics; is that correct?
'. l
. '.
. , ' ' . ' WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-351-4577
14 (Pages 50 lo 55)
' '.
'
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al. . 6/1/0}.- Paul L. LeCour
Page 54.
Page 56
1 A. Yts.
....'
1 talking about?
2 Q. And the particular auto mechanics are grinding
2 A. Yes.
.
3 ' the lining to make sure that it's in sync with the drum?
'' 4
A. Ye*.
3 Q. These are American Brakeblok or Bendix
.
4 specifications that you match when you do the grinding;
5
Q. fs it true that each drum - you have four '
5 is that correct?
.
'
'
6 . wheels. There may be variances due to wear and tear on
7 each drum?
.:
6 ' A.' These are American Brakeblok. .
'
7 Q. Okay. Now, show me on here where you would
.
8 A. Yes.
8 actually see where you're supposed to grind to.
.9
Q. So in this application that's described as
9 A. Read that (indicating).
'
10 Exhibit 3, the mechanic is essentially using the drum as
10 * Q. "Finished lining thickness."
II a guide to make sure there's a proper fit in the braking .. '
11
A. That's it. .
.12 operation? .
'
' . 12 Q. All right.
'
13 A. Well, you don't turn drums on the same axle
13 A. And you see this center thickness. This is '.
l more than .015 difference. So if you had one drum and - 14 a grinding specification. So when you're finished
15 you turned it .045 to clean it up and you have the other
IS grinding, you've already set your compound up here for
16 drum that cleaned up at 15, you wouldn't do that. You
16 whai the diameter is going to be. You're going to set
17 would have to turn this one up to be within fifteenths
17 your compound at 10, what, 960?
-
18 of the 45. '
19 Q. Now, how does. Rayloc know, when it grinds its
20 brake shoes, how that brake shoe is going to fit on
'
21 a particular drum? By specifications?
',
18 Q. Right.
.
19 A. All right. That is the drum diameter you set
20 it for. And that is .040 under the standard drum
21 diameter. You give heel-and-toe clearance on the shoe
.
22 A. By specifications and also gauges.
23 Q. I'm sorry. Gauges?
24 A. Yeah, gauges.
'
22 itself - the lining -- between the lining and the drum.
. 23 When you fioish making that arc sweep, then you measure
' 24 the center thickness. And that's the variances you're
'
25 Q. What do you mean by that?
25 supposed to have in there.
.
'
.' .
Page JJ
Page 57
1 . A. Well, the gauge is you can have a grinder and
.2 you grind it. We want tq,make sure that it docs fit it
3 properly. And so you have gauges to check. Once you .
4 finish grinding, okay, 1 just got finished grinding.
5 I check it, it's there.
'
6 Q. is (here a variance? Is there some way to
.
7 accommodate for the variance in each drum through wear
8 and. tear? -
.
9 A. Welt, in understand your question, our shoe
10 can fit > standard diameter drum or all the way up to
II .060 over standard. Anywhere in between there, our shoe
12 works perfect.
.
13 Q. Well, let me ask you this question then: So
14 there is a variance over which or a range over which
15 your brake shoe is designed to fit with the standard
16 drum?
17 A. Well, not -- okay. With a drum. I'm not going
18 to say standard, because standard to me is standard
19 diameter, okay. But in a brake drum, our brake shoe
20 fits over a variance of diameter.
21
MR. DUMLER: Let's have this marked as the
.
22 next Exhibit 4.
23 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 4 was marked.) :
24 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Again, what's been marked
25 as Exhibit 4. is this the specification that you're
1 Q. What's the difference? When it says "primary".
2 and "secondary?" What -
3' A. Well, in a Duo-Servo brake, you have a primary 4 and a secondary. The primary shoe is the leading shoe
.
. 5 which wedges the secondary shoe.
.'
:
6 And in the majority of the applications, you :
7 ' havt a longer segment on the secondary shoe. And it is .
8 normally thicker than the primary shoe.
9 Q. Now, what particular vehicle is this
'
'10 specification for?
. '
II A. I don't know. This (indicating} is telling me
'
12 what it is. It would be a B-291. And you would look it
13 up in our application catalog, which the jobber goes
14 back on his shelf and pulls a B-291 for an application
15 for what It specifically goes on. This (indicating)
1.6 tells you what it goes on.
17 Q. So the B-291 would correspond to a specific
18 vehicle? '
19 ' A. Year, make, model. 20 Q. Now, this is much different than your average
21 mechanic who's grinding shoes, the process they would go 22 through. They would not use these specific 23 specifications, is that correct, to your understanding?..
24 A. 1 don't know what they would use.
25 Q. Did you have any knowledge oT whai your
' ' '. . WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.! 404-351-4577 .
' 15 (-Pages 54 to 57)-. ' j" '
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc.,'et al.
d/1/0.1 Paul L. LsCour
Page 58
'Page 60
1 , avenge mechanic, how they would go about grinding shoes
2 in their garage?
.
3 A. Mo. I've not seen grinding taking place in
4 a garage, in a repair garage. '
5 See, jobbing stores - the majority of your
6 jobbing operations had the grinding mechanisms, because
7 they turned the drums Tor the garage.
a Q. You've never been to a garage to see
9 a mechanic do a brake job?
10 A. Oh,'yes, absolutely. '
.
II Q. You've never seen a mechanic grind the brake?
12 A. No.
13 ' Q. What is your understanding of whether or not
.
.14 your average mechanic would have these specific - '
0 specifications when they're grinding?
'
16 ` A. Cive me that question again, please.
.
17 Q. Sure. Your average mechanic goes and buys
18 - brake lining that they're going to grind. ' Is it your
19 understanding that they grind them to specific
20 specifications or that they grind them based upon their
21 view oT what needs to be done to put them to properly
'
22 fit them with the .drum?
.
23 ' MR. RILEY: Objection. Object to the form
24 of the question.
..
25 ' MR. ERRANTE: Objection. .
1 In the garages or not. 1 understand grinding, okay.
2 . Bul l don't know what they did in the garages.
3 Q. Well, let me ask you this question: Do you
.'
4 have an understanding of the difference between how you
5 put your product on an automobile and how you put some
6 of your competitors' products on'an automobile with -
.
7 respect to the grinding.that needs to be done? '
8 A. Well, ours is precision ground to fit. And
9 if they use someone else's brand that is not precision
10 ground -- because they had other people that are also
II precision ground -- but if they do not, then they
12 couldn't get the drum back on. They could mount them.
13 but they'd never get the drum back on. 14- Q. What did they have to do get the drum back on?
15 A. 1 don't know. .
16 Q. Do you have any knowledge oThow or why they
17 . would go about grinding to apply a competitor's product?
18 A. The only way I can say it is; with the exhibit
19 that we just looked at from AMMGO, this company would
20 come in, and they would sell a garage this equipment..
21 And they would have to have the instructions of how to
22 use the equipment. So that's all 1 would know, follow
23 the Instructions.
24 Q. Have you ever installed your own Rayloc brake
25 shoes?
,i
. ' .
Page 59
.'
' Page 61
1 MR. DUMLER: Go ahead. '
1 . A. Absolutely, yes.
;
2 MR. RJLEY: Those are not the only two
3 alternatives to what he may have in mind. '
2 Q. Have you ever installed a'competitor's brake'
. 3 shoes?
:
.4
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Are either of those
. 4 ' A. Yes. .
..
5 alternatives within your realm of understanding?
. 5 Q. Have you ever ground any linings? Have you. ;
6 A. Repeat tbe question.
- 6 yourself ever ground brake linings?
.
7 7Q. What did you understand your average mechanic
A. Ground them in the plant before I took them
8 . was doing in order to get the brake linings'to properly .
8 home and put them on the car.
9 fit?
'
9 Q. Haveyou ever ground them, not in the plant -
10
II .
. MR. ERRANTE: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Using our product, they did
. 12
13 .
14
nothing other than install them. Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Other than with respect to your product, in those instances in which a mechanic at
IS a garage would grind brake shoes and fining, what w&s
16 your understanding ofhow they were going about doing
17 that and what they were doing?
18 MR. RILEY: Well, he's testified that he's '
19 not seen it, so 1 don't know that he has an
.
20 understanding. Why don't you ask him if he has.
21 an understanding.
'
22 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Well, that is my question:
"23 Do you have any idea what they're doing in the garages
10 I'm sorry before you took them home for the car. So
II the competi tors' you've ground to go home, put them on
12 your car, and what, tested them?
.
13 A. Well, yes, if it required It.
'
14 Q. And what did you grind them to, specifications
15 or-- . . ' .
.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Where did you get the specifications?
'18 A. American Brakeblok.
19 MR. DUMLER: Let me have that (indicating)
20 marked as the next exhibit.
21
22 '
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 5 was marked.)
.
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I've handed you what's been
23 marked as Exhibit 5, which-appears to be an AMMCO
;
24 when they're grinding brake shoes?
24 products catalog. Can you identify that for me?
23. A. Well, I don't know if they are grinding them 25 A. It's tools and equipment for professionals,
' '
.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC'-404051-4577;
16 (Pages 5S to 61) ' ,:
Hicks, et a], v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
. 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
1
'
..
'
Page 62
. Page 64
1 brake service, wheel alignment, tire changing, engine
2 repair made by AMMCO, A-M-M-C-O.
3 ' Q. Is ihis document also contained in your -
. 4 personal file?
5 A. I think 1 do have a copy, or this might have
' 6 be^n the one that I furnished. But, yes, I've seen this '
7 one before.
8
Q. When did you first get a copy of that
".
9 document?
.'
10 A. I do not recall;
II Q. What is the reason that you decided .to hang on
12 to that document?
13 ' A. Again, that's my business to know what is 14 going on.in our industry and what different suppliers
' 15 come out with, as far as equipment.
.
. 16
Q. Do you have any recollection of when you got
.
17 that document?
'
.18 A. No.
.
.
19 Q. There are specific grinding tables or grinding
20 products that are contained in that document. Do they
21 have any relationship to the equipment that is in the .
22 Rayloc plants and used in the remanufactoring process?
23- A. No.
.
' 24 Q. Is the grinding equipment that you had at the
25 Rayloc plants custom equipment?
1 marked as the next exhibit.
-
2.
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 6 was marked.)
3 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Co ahead and take a look .
4 through Exhibit No. 6, and tell me what's pictured
5 there.
. '
6 A.' It's brake shoes and the box in which they're .
7 "packagedin.
.'
- 8 Q.- There's an "RS-263." That's a specific model ? number?
10' . A. That's a. Ford. '
.
l| Q. Is there any way to tell what year we're
12 talking about?.
'
13 A. No, other than application catalog. Are you
14 talking about on the box?
-
15 Q. Right.
'
16 A. On the label? No. 17 Q. Okay. Now we're looking at the Bates number .
18 at the bottom, NOV041225.
'
.
19
Is this a riveted brake shoe?
20 A. . Yes, it Is. '
21 Q. How do you know that? By the designation?
22 A. "RS." 23 Q. Is this an asbestos-containing product? 24 A. Well, it depends bn when it was manufactured, .
25 but I'd say yes. .
'
Page 63
Page 65
1 A. No.
.
2 Q. It's purchased fromjomeone?
'
3 A. Yes. 4 . Q. Who's it purchased from?
. ..
5 A. ConkJin would be one* And Shepherd Thompson
6 would be the other.
7 Q. Are these products you can purchase on the
8 Open market, or were they built by those manufacturers '
9 specifically for Rayloc?
.
10 A. You can buy them on the open market.
'
II Q. So a mechanic can purchase the same type of
12 equipment that you have in your Rayloc facilities?
13 A. If you hid enough money.
14 Q. Now, we got orr on this tangent. We were
,13 talking about the process. We stopped at the grinding.
.
16 We were at the grinding process at the Rayloc plant..
17 After the grinding is complete, what is the
IS next step?
19 A. Well, the next step, the shoe drops down on
20 a conveyor belt, which has a vacuum tunnel around it.
21 And then it goes up to the packaging area. And the shoe
22 (hen is taken off the belt and put on a do'rn-drafi
23 . table. And then it is boxed into the finished product.
24 or into the finished box rather.
25' MR. DUMLER: Lei me have this (indicating)
1 2 3' 4 5 6 7 8 .9 10 11 12 13 . 14 !5 `
IS 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. What makes you say that?
.
A. Because of the type of label that's on there
and having the Rayloc on the side, see, with the logo
here (indicating). That was old.
Q. What year did that change?
,
A. 1 don't remember the year that they changed.
Q. So this --1 don't know if it's a hexagon?-
A. Sixagon (sic).
Q. Sixagon with a check is an old Rayloc logo?
A. Yes.
Q. All right.
MR. RILEY: What else can you tell him
about that (indicating)? '
THE WITNESS: Well, there's stuff missing
up in here (indicating). It had "American
Brakeblok" on it. I can't make that out, if
'
that says "NAPA" or not. Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Okay. You're referring to
the `
.
A. Label.
'
..
Q. - black lines above the "RS"? '
'
A. Right,
'
Q. So the copying has blotted something out?
A. Well, it didn't take because of the ink. It was a dark color, and i( was black ink.
'
'
'
'` .
. / .
. 17 (Pages 6210 65)
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.,'404-351-^577' '
.' '
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
1
''
6/1/01 Paul L. LeCour
''
Page 66
_ '
Page 63
1 Q. Now, we've got a black-and-white copy. '
i Q. So this, is a different label that was pul on
2 What does this box look like?
'.
2 the box?
. 3 A. The box? 4 Q. Yes. What color was it?
.
3 A. Uh-huh.
'
4, Q. Do you have any-recollection of when there was
5 A. White -- excuse me - oyster whjte.
,
5 a shift? '
''
6 Qi I'm sorry. Oyster white? . 7 A. Oyster white, bone white.
6 A. No, 1 do not. Let's see. This (indicating)
7 would tell you the date.
.
8 Q. What about the lettering? Lei's Stan with 9 the lettering and the logo. What color were they, 10 typically?
. 8 , Q. You're referring to NOVO30229, which is -
9 it says "APS-1049"?
'
,
10
A. Yes. '
.
'
II A. Black.
. ' ' II
Q. That tells me nothing. .
.
12 Q. What about on the front of the box here
12 A. Well, that was made by Abex, so that was their
13 (indicating) with the RS-263?
14 A.' Black.
' .
13 designation of it. 14 With ours, it's a Julian date.
'
15 Q. And this, the black bar here (indicating),
15 Q. So the ABS (sie) refers to--is it the ABS
.
16 would be black with some writing?
. 16 thai signifies it's Abex, or is it the American
17 A. 1 don't recall exactly, because - but
17 Brakeblok?
18 normally that was not black. That would have been like 18
A. Same. Well, I consider them one and the same.
19 red.
19 Q. Okay. So before we go up to there
20 ' Q. Okay. 41226 is a picture of the same product.
20 (indicating), what's the ABS? Is that'APS?
.
21 correct? ,1 think it's just a duplicate.
' 21
MR. RILEY: APS.
.
22 A. Duplicate, yes.
.
' 22 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Does that signify who the
23 ' Q. All right. What does NOV041227 indicate?-
23 company is?
' '.
' 24 Is that the same product? '
. 24 A. I don't know what that means.
.-
25 A. Uh-huh. '
-
25 MR. RILEY: I think the words "a product
Page 67 - . '
'
Page 69
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 .8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
. >6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. Same product (indicating)?
'
A. Yes.
' Q. (Indicating.)
.
A. Same product.
' . MR. DUMLER: Let's have this (indicating) .
. marked as Exhibit No. 7.
.
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 7 was marked.)
,... Q. (By Mr. Dumler) And if you could take a look
at Exhibit No. 7, and tell me what those pages are. '
A. These are labels for master cartons and
individual products Cor both brake shoe and disc pad
and also clutch discs.
Q. Now, the labeling looks different here
(indicating). Is this a more recent product - .
A. Uh-huh.
Q. -- than Exhibit 6?
'
.
A. Yes.
,
Q. When did this design come out? .
A. I do not know.
MR. RILEY: You're referring to page 7?
MR. DUMLER: Correct, or NOVO3022S.
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Is this a newerdesign box? '
A. Not - well, the box could have changed, but
the label could have changed, and the box could have
still been the same.
1 of American Brakeblok" might -
>
2 MR. DUMLER: That would help me, right '
3' Q. (By Mr. Dumler) All right Now.'wesawon .
4, Exhibit 6 that there was the Rayloc with the sixagon .
5 but with a check. And this has the NAPA logo.
:
6
My question is: Was there a shift in the
7 packaging at some point in time --
.
,
S . A. Yes. '
9 Q. - that changed the design? . .
10 A. Yes.
'
.
II Q. So the design went from what appears on
12 Exhibit 6 to what we have here on Exhibit 7?
13 A. Yes.
14 . Q. And you don't know when that was?
15 A. No, 1 don't.
.
16 Q. What was the reason for the change in design
17 of the package?
.
IS A. I don't know.
. '
19 Q. Now, on 30228, there's three different types:
20 Economy quality.standard quality, arid professional
21 'quality. Those are the three grades that Rayloc sold?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, the next page, 30229, is this another .
24 part of the box? What are we looking at here?
25 A, You're looking at labels again. You're
,
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-351-4577
IS (Pages 66 10 69)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
'
' 6/1/0) - Paul L. LeCour
' Page 70
Page 72
1 looking at label];
...
,2
Q. My question is: Are these labels on the
; .3 second page in the same boa as the ones on the front '
4 P>ge?
.
. ' ' '
5 A. You mean -- repeat your question: .
6 Q. Sure.
'
7 MR. RILEY: Well,.you hae put together
.8
a collection of labels. They are all separate
9 labels.
..
10 MR. DUMLER: Okay. They all go in
II different botes?
. 12 MR. RILEY: DilTerent botes..
13 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Well, let's look at the first
14 page -
.
IS MR. RJLEY: And probably'dilferent iime
' 16
periods.
17 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) 30228, what else would be on
18 the box that contains this label?
.
-
19. A. 1 don't recall, because for a long period of '1
20 time, we did not have what we called the Cucci bot.
2) It was just a plain oyster white, bone white, boa.
-
22 . Then we went and put a band around -- a gray
' 23 band around the box that had the different product lines 24 that we jold. And we let the label speak for what's
25 inside the box.
. ' 1.
1 . Q. Okay.
,.
2 MR. RJLEY:.And that's a third label.
3 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Then 30230 would be the disc 4 brake pad label?
5 A. Yeah. This is the master cart, because
.
6 there's 12 sets in the box. And this is what, let's
.
7 say, is in' that box.
.
.
8 Q. .Up above that?
. .
9 A. Yeah. It would have had to have the same part. .
10 number. .
.
11 Q. These numbers (indicating), 8503 and 8502,
12 that are underneath them, what do they correspond to?
13 A. That should be a Julian date. 14 Q. What does that mean?
'
15 A. Day of the year and the year.
16 Q. How do we know what date we're talking about .
17 on 8502?
'
18 A. Well, again, on this one, I cannot answer
19 that, because they were printed by American Brakeblok. '
20 We did not print these labels.
-
21 Q. All right. When did Genuine Parts start
22 printing their own labels?
'
.
:
23 A. I don't recall the exact time. I do not
24 recall.
25 Q. All right Now, the boxes that those labels
.
.
Page 71
' . Page 7J
1 MR. RILEY: If 1 can help you out.
2 THE WITNESS:, 1 didn't see it.
3 MR. RILEY: 1 don't either. Okay. 4 . THE WITNESS: I didn't see it. But it was
5 printed directly onto the box.
6 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Okay.
7 A. But the label, for instance, here (indicating)
8 .on.No. 7 -
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. -- economy, that would be a certain color,
11 professional quality would be a certain color; and
12 standard quality would be another color. But that's
13 . what you knew was in the box.
.
14
Q. When was that change made?
15 A. That wasn't mine. 1 don't recall.
16 Q. Okay. Now, the next page, which is 30229,
17 indicates Rayloc relined brake shoes. Okay?
18 A. Ub-huh.
.'
.19 Q. This top up here (indicating) is different '
20 than what's down here, "Rayloc stopper." These are
21 different boxes?
22 MR. RILEY: Labels.
23 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Labels?
24 A. This is a label, that's a label. Yes, they're
25 two different labels.
1 would be put on, when you went out and bought either
2 a brake shoe or disc brake pads, did they have inserts '
' 3-' in them? 4 . A. Some.
'
*5
Q. How do you distinguish between which ones did
i
. 6 and which ones did not?
- '
7 A. Kit was a particular problem on the
-
8 functionality of a brake, we would bring it to the .9 attention of the installer. So that they made sure, if 10 the car had been updated, it should have been updated.
II And then who - go ahead.
.
12 Q. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
' 13 A. And that's basically it.
.
)4 Q. Who made the decision of what particular .
15 products required inserts and what products did noi? 16 A, 1 was responsible for the Inserts from 17 a mechanical point of view. ' .
' 18 Q. All right So if you were aware or any 19 particular performance or installation issue, you would 20 say, we need an insert to go in this particular box?
21 A. Yes. 22 . Q.' Can you give me an example of an insert or
.
23 tt situation that you decided required an insen?
24
A. Yes. It's on a 3/4-tun, 1-ton GiVI application,
.
where it's a very heavy caliper. And through normal
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, fNC,, 404-35M577
19 (Pages 70 to 73)
Hicks, ct al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
6/1/01 - Paul L. LcCour
`
' Page 74
.
Page 76
l service, il wears on the fixed-anchor assembly.
2
So there are oversized shims that you use to
3 compensate for this problem. And the reason being that
4 GM had a problem with It. And the problem was they were
s pulling linings off of the backing plate.
6 So we took extra measures to use a special
'
7 annealed rivet for attachment of the friction material.
8 But at the same time, even doing all that, if the
'
. 9 installer did not check the clearance between the
'
10 caliper and the fixed-anchor assembly, then he would
1! have the same problem all over again. So we put that
12 in there.
'
.
13 And United offered the shims. So we put the 14 United part.oumbcrs in there so they could purchase .
15 those from the INAPA jobber.
16 Q. Did you have any involvement in designing the
17 insert? .
.
..
18. A. Yes.
;,
19 Q. What did it look like? Was it a piece of
'
20 paper that was put in the actual package?
2! A. Yes.
.
22 Q. What did it say at the top? ' '
23 A. I don't recall. "Notice."
.
24 Q.. Did you make any particular effort to make
25 Sure that someone opened the package, actually looked
1 Abex regarding the thickness of the lining in particular
2 products and the difficulty in grinding. Do you have
'3 any recollection of that?
'
.
.
4 ' A.. Yes.
''
5 Q.' Can you tell me what the problem was?
.
6 A. Can I sec them? 7 Q. Do you want to see the documents?
8
A. Absolutely.
1
9 MR. DUMLER: All right. Lefs have them'
10 . marked.
'
II ' 12
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 8 was marked.) Q. (By Mr. Dumler) This is a collection of
13 letters. Take your time.
'
14. . A. You want me to just read one, or do you want
15 me to read them all?
'
16 Q. You can take your time and take a look at
17 ' them. I'm just trying to see whether you have any
18 recollection of what the problem was.
1.9 MR. RILEY: Whilehe's reading, can we' '
20 . take a five-minute break?
21 MR. DUMLER: Sure.
22 ' (Recess was taken.) '
23.- Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Have you had a chance
.
24 to review those documents?
.
' .;
25 A. Yes.
'
' .
'
Page 75
.
. . Page 77 '
1 2 3 4 '5 6 7 '8
9
10 II - 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
and read the insert, rather than simply discarding it? ' 1 Q. Mr. LeCour, what can you recall about the
A. We always tried to do that by placing it on
2 problem you were experiencing with Abex brake linings?-
top of the product. It's the last thing that went in
. 3 A. Abex wanted to make a consolidation on
the box.
. . . ' 4 segments. And in this consolidation, they chose to make
Q. So, in other words, you had to take it ofT to
gel to the product?
.
5 the centerline thickness of the linings anywhere from .
6 IS- to .015 over what we were currently using. Well, we
A. Right.
7 would not release that to all of our customers. We
... Q. Did you think about or make any conscious
' 8 checked on some ourselves with our vehicles, and they
decision, how am 1 going to make sure that people read
9 worked.
.
this insert?
10 Where the mistake was made was on the
A. No. I mean how they're going to read it, if
11 non-servo imports.
1
`'
they can read, I'm sure... ' ' .
12 Well, we had two DCs that we used. We used
Q. In Olher words, you pul the word "Noiice" on
13 Atlanta - there were three. We used Atlanta, we used
it? ' 14 Birmingham, and we used New Orleans. . '
A. Yes.
. 15 And we released the new spec thickness to
Q. Did you make any effort to highlight that word
16 those three DCs. We had our salesmen assigned to each
or place it bolder or larger? -
. 17 DC.
.
A. Oh, the word "Notice" would have been larger.
18
We got complaints that when they put a new
Q. So you made some conscious effort to design
19 drum -- if they bad to go buy a new drum and put the new
the insert to make sure that people noticed it and read
20 drum on, they could not get the drum on. If they turned
if. is that fair to say?
,
21 the drum, which that's the normal procedure to do in
A. Yes.
.
'
Q. Mr. LeCour, I've got some exhibits, but maybe
22 a brake job, it goes on fine with no problem. 23 Q. What was preventing it from going on?
1 don't have to mark them.
24 A. The lining was too thick.
There was a time when you had a dispute with
25 Q. Too thick?
,
.
: : ) ; j , .
>
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-331-4.577
20 (Pages 74 to 77)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al. .
. 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
. Page 78
Page 80
1 . A. Too thick. So wc said that, no, it has to fit
2 a new drum.
.
3 Well, there were arguments back and forth, the '
4 majority of the drums out there are all turned, da, da,
. 5 da, 1 said, look, we're tired of arguing, this is il,
6 we're not going to use your specifications any longer,
7 we will drop back to FiYtSI standard thickness on servo -
' 8 excuse me - non-servo. So we did so.
9 Q. The letters that 1 set art dated 1981. How
10 long had the problem been going on prior to that?.
11 A. As far as the problem is concerned, that 1 can 12' recall, it would have been no longer than 60 days that ,
13 ' we would have found out, because we picked popular ' 14 numbers and'pulled the current inventoity out and put
IS new inventory in.
16 Q. So when the mechanic went to put a new - to .
17 basically do a brake job, why is the lining still too
18 thick if it's been pre-ground at ihc factory?
19 A. Because wt raised the centerline thickness. -
20 ' 1 still can have the right precision arc, but
21 . it can be too thick. So the new drum wouldn't go on. -
22 Q. Okay. So the grinding that's done is for the .
23 arc. It doesn't have anything to do with the thickness
24 of the lining?
23 A. ' That's correct.
'
1 Q. You send these out and have them install them
2 themselves on their own cars?
3 A.- Yes.
. .
4 Q. There's a reference in here that you may sand '
5 the rubbing surface to remove the glazed finish. What
6 does that refer to, the first paragraph?
7- A. Let's see. We're talking about the rotor
'
8 surface. You don't have to turn your rotors. If your
9 rotors are good, we want you to knock the glaze ofrof '
10 your roiorj.
.
11 Q. Okay. How often did Rayloc or Genuine Parts
12 send out products 10 have them tested by their own
13 employees?
14 A. 1 cannot recall. But it would be -- when
.
]5 formulations were being considered as a change, we
16. would do so.
-
.'
17 Q. Did Genuine Parts make any effort prior to
IS 1990 to test any non-asbestos products with their
19 employees?
"
..
.
20
A. . Prior to when?
1'
'
21 Q. Prior to this letter in 1990!
22 . A. Yes.
.23 Q. All right. When's the earliest you can .
24 recall getting a potential product or test product.
25 non-asbestos, and having somebody at Rayloc lest it out?
' . . ' Page 79
. Page 81
1 Q. So when the mechanic got the lining that's
2 ' too thick, what did they, have to do to accommodate? '
3 A. They picked up the phone and said, your 4 linings don't fit, what's wrong.
5 Q. And what's the solution for that? Turn the -6 A. We turned the drum. A lot of them said, hey,
7 I bad to turn this new drum, and 1 don't think I need '
8 . to.turn the new drum. That's what the jobber did to
9 ' salvage the business.
'
10 MR. DUMLER: Let's have this (indicating)
II marked as the next exhibit.
'
12
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 9 was marked.) '
13 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) All right. I'm going to give .
14 you Exhibit No. 9, which is a November 16, 1990, letter
15 that appears to be from you. 1 ask you to take a look
16 at it.
17 A. Yes,
. ' '.
18 Q. This is an instance where you're having people
19 in your company test new products? 20 A. Yesi
'
'
21 Q. Is this a non-asbestos metallic pad? What is
22 this?
'
23 A.. It's metallic and non-metallic, non-asbestos, 24 a strip lining, strip lining on [he shoe. On the disc
25 pad, it was metallic.
.
1 A. Mid-'80s.
.
2 Q. Wha't was the product; do you remember? '
3' A. Brake shoes.
.-
'4 Q. Who manufactured them?
5 A. Abex.
6 Q. Was this in connection with Abex's efforts to
'
7 shift over to non-asbestos products? .
8 A. Yes.
9 . MR. ERRANTE: Object to the form..
.
10 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) .Did you have any discussions
II with Abex about testing or designing non-asbestos brake
12 shoes or pads prior to the mid-'SOs?-
..
13 A. Restate your question.
'
14 Q. Prior to the ntid-'SOs, did Genuine Parts lest
IS any non-asbestos brake products?
16 A. Yes.
.
17 Q. When was the first time you tested
18 non-asbestos brake products?
19 A. That would have been mid-'70s, early '70s,
20 mid-'70s.
21 Q. What was the product that you tested?
'
22 A.- Semi-metallic.
'
23
Q. Who manufactured it?
.
.
24 A. At that time, Bendix.
25 Q. What was the reason ihai Genuine Parts was
''
'
.
.. .
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404:351-4577 .
21 (Pages 7S to SI.)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., el al.
.
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
.
''
' Pag: 32
Page 84
1 testing semi-meullic product at that time?
2 A. Because the original manufacturers were
.3 switching over to semi-metallic friction material on the
4 disc pads.
.
5 Q. Are there any documents that are produced in '
6 connection with your testing of those products?
7 A. No.
'
.
2 Q. Your people who drive the cars don't fill out
9 forms or don't have surveys about what they liked or '
10 didn't like about the products?
'
.
II . A. No. That was done by Abex themselves in their
12 testing.
.
.
13 Q. I'm sorry. They did it themselves?
'
14 MR. RJLEY: You said Bendix.
13 '
THE WITNESS: Excuse me. Well, I cannot .
16 > speak for Bendix. , 1
'
'
' 17 ' Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Okay. I'm asking about
18 Genuine Parts. When it tested a brake product, did it
.
19 have its people fill out any forms or do any surveys
20 or any other documents related to the testing of that
21 product?
.
22 A. No.
'
.
23 ' Q. So were you involved at all in the testing of 24 the'semi-metallic products?
'
25 A. Yes.
1 A. Yes. It wouldn't have taken that long to run '
2 the test.
'
3 Q. And are you the person that was responsible '
4 . for approving Genuine Parts' sale of semi-metallic in
5 the 70s? '
.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What was the advantage of semi-metallic over .
8 your asbestos-containing products that you were selling
9 at the time?
'
10 A. Strictly heat. They could take higher
11 temperatures without breaking down.
12 Q. Were there any disadvantages to the
'
13 semi-metallic versus the asbestos-containing brake
14 products you were selling in the early 70s?
"
IS A. Yes.
..
. 16
Q. What were they?
'
17 A. It would eat up your rotors and, in some
.
18 cases, would require additional pedal pressure to get
19 the car to stop.
20 Q. Were there any other disadvantages?
.
21. A. Noise, morning sickness.
'
22 23
MR. RILEY: What?
'
THE WITNESS: Morning sickness. That's- .
24 see, semi-mets work better at elevated
25 temperatures.
' . ' . Page 83.
. . Page 85
1
Q. Were you the person responsible for whether
. .1
At normal temperatures, the coefficient of
2 or not semi-metaJlic products would be sold by Genuine
2
friction is lower, whereas an asbestos product
3 Parts?
.
3 has its coefficient of friction stable
4 A. Yes-
4 basically through all ranges of temperature
5
Q. And were you the person responsible for having . 5
before you reach primary fade. .
6 the employees at Genuine Parts test the semi-metallic
6 ' So you would have to press -- you're
'
7 products?
'.
.
7 backing out of your driveway in the morning,
.
8 A: Yes.
'
.8
and you hit your brakes. And ifyou had
.
9 ' Q. All right. So this work, basically you sent .
9 .asbestos on there, you know, you would slop.
10 them out and then spoke to the people who drove the ' 10
And now you put the semi-mets on there and
11 cars
11 say, wait, it's not going to stop. And you
12 A. Yes:
12 pressed harder to get it to, and it would stop.
13
Q. - and got feedback from them about whether or
13
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) So semi-metallics were not
14 not they were good, bad, or otherwise?
. 14 as attractive to the consumer as the asbestos produce?
15 . A; Yes, and personally had them on cars.
15 A. It really wasn't being -- 1 couldn't speak ,
16 Q. When did you make the determination that the , 16 from the consumer. I'm speaking from a point of a .
17 semi-metallic product was a product that Genuine Parts . 17 functionality and a required material to be a safe
18. wanted to start selling? 19 A. When? . 20 . Q. Correct.
' 18 material:
.
. .19 So disregarding the morning sickness problems
20 or the squealing and noise, we wanted to produce a safe
21 A. Like year?
' 2) product.
22 Q. Correct.
'
23 A. I don't recall the exact year, but It would
22 And that's what original equipment says 23 belongs on the car. That's what we're going to put back
24 have been in the '70s.
24 on there.
25 ' Q. Early'70s?
' 25
Q. What was the reason that Rayloc did not go 10
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, fNC 404-351 4577
22 (Pages S2 io S5)
Hicks, et al. v, ACandS, Inc., et al.
' 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
' Page 86
. . Page 38'
1 semi-metallic on all oTits brake produets?
1 you on page 47: What precautions were taken back in the
2 A. Because actually all brake system] were not
2 '40s or, you.know, the'50s, when you first began the
3 designed to run with semi-metallic.
3 Atlanta plant, with reference to grinding asbestos brake
4 Q. You said in the beginning of this deposition '
4 linings?'
'
5 or near the beginning of this deposition that Mr. Huff .
5
The answer Mr, Huff gave was: "Well, it '
6 was the person that had your job before you: is that
6 was accumulated on the early grinders. They were
..
7 correct?
'.
7 hand-operaied grinders. We have automated over a period
8 ' '- A. Uh-hyh.
'
8 . of time. The early grinders were hand-operated grinders '
9 Q. Have you ever read Mr. Huffs deposition that
9 and had bags on them, very much like a vacuum cleaner.
10 he gave on February 26th of 1988?
. 10 And the material waj collected in those bags and then
II A. No.
. ' II transformed to a larger container.'
12 Q. 1 want to ask.you about something that's
12 Are you familiar with that process?
13 stated in that deposition, whether you agree with it. 14 On page 44 and 45 of the deposition, Mr. Huff
13 A. I'm familiar with that process.
.
.14 Q. Oo you have any knowledge of how far back that
.
15 indicates that Rayloc had procedures in its plants in 16 the 1940s for taking precautions with respect to
'
15 process goes? 16 . A. With Rayloc?
, . .
17 asbestos. Are you familiar with those precautions? . 18 A. I can only speak from the point of view that 19 when I came into the plant in '76, it was already in
,17 .' Q. Correct.
..
18 A. No, 1 do not.
'
19 Q. What is your understanding for that process,
.. .
20 place, monitoring and industrial hygiene testing going
21 on. I can't go back to the'40s.
.
.
20 the reason for that process?
21 A. The reason for it Is you don't want dust all .
. . , .
22 Q. As the corporate designee of Genuine Parts, 23 are you familiar .with any precautions for containing 24 or containerizing asbestos that go back-to the 1940s?'
22 over the place. So these machines he's speaking of were 23 hand grinders. Arid they did have a vacuum unit attached 24 to them, Just like a vacuum cleaner. Aod then you would
. -
25
A. I'm not familiar with that.
.
. 25 take that and transfer it over to a larger container.
'
Page B7
'`
Page 89
1 Q. Okay. Are you familiar one way or another
1
2 whether or not in the 1950s, as testified by Mr. HulT,
2
3 the company had concern about the dust that was
3
' '4 emanating from its grinding operations?
4
5 MR. RILEY: 1 object to the form of the
5
6 question. Oo you have a specific quote that - .
6
7 you want to refer him to?
'7
3 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Here's the question:
' "--8
9 Page 47: "So even back in the 1950s, your' . 9
10 ' company was concerned with the dust that was
10
II- . emanating from thebrake linings?'-
11
12 Answer "Oh, yes.'
. 12
13 .
Do'you have any knowledge of that one way ' .
14 or the other? .
'
13 14
15 A. 1 can't speak for the '50s.
15
16 Q. You have no knowledge one way or the other
16
17 . whether in the 1950s the company was concerned about the
17
18 dust that was coming from the brake lining grinding
' IS
19 operations?
. 19
20 A. 1 do know that Genuine Parts' Company has
20
21 always been concerned about good housekeeping.
21
22 And it was. dust. What type of dust. 1 don't
22
23 know. But 1 do know they are very sticklers on
24 cleanliness.
'
- 23 24
25 .. Q. On page 40 - let me read the full quote to
25
But it was to prevent getting dust all over the place.
-
Q. Are you familiar with the vacuuming procedures '
that the company put in place in the 1960s?
,. A., Yes.
.
Q. Tell me about those. What procedures were put
in place?
.
A. ' These were central vac units that had big dust
collectors. They were driven by like 25-horsepower
motors. And they had vacuum suction areas wherever
there was processing or asbestos.
Q. Who was the person responsible for deciding
(hat these vacuum procedures were going to be put in
place? A. General manager.
Q. Who was that at the time? .
A. What.time?
'.
Q. Well, when the procedures were fust
initiated, who was the person that did it? A. Oh, ( can't --I don't know that.
Q. But ifs fair to say that the vacuum
.
procedures were put in place because of a recognition
that you did not want asbestos dust that wasn't taken
out by a vacuum process?
A. That wasn't taken Uut by a vacuum process? '
Q. Correci.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404-351-4577
23 (Pages S6 io S9)-
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
' 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
Page 90
'
' Page 92
1 A. Well, it was the efficiency - at that time,
2 OSHA did not regulate the vacuuming systems. So they
3 . just figured a shop vac would be suitable enough. It
4 would suck up everything, but then it had an exhaust.
5 . So we got the dust collectors out of the building with
6 the proper filtration system.
.7- Q. My question is this: Was there a recognition
8 between some hiralth hazard associated with asbestos and
9 the use of the vacuuming system?
.
10 A. Yes, there was a recognition of the health 1
II hazards of asbestos. .
.
12 Q. And the company took steps to attempt to avoid 13 that health hazard by installing a vacuuming system? 14 A. Absolutely, to protect our employees, sure.
15 Q. How far back did the company make efforts'to '
16 avoid the hazards associated with asbestos through the
17 use of a vacuuming system or otherwise? . .
18 . A. 1 can't speak, other than from, when 1 arrived .
19 in 1976, knowing that these systems are already in
20 place. But 1 don't know the year that they were in
21 place. ...
-
22 Q. What was in place when you arrived in 1976? `
23- A. Down-draft tables and central vacuuming and --
24 yeah, that was it.
25 Q. What do you mean by "down-draft tables"?
i Q. When you arrived in 1976, how long had that
2 central vacuuming system been in place?
3 A. I don't recall. I don't recall. .
-
4
Q. Did Genuine Parts, when you arrived in 1976,
.
5 use respirators, have its employees use respirators?
6 A.' Only if they were, emptying the dust
7 collectors.
'
8 Q. Who was responsible for implementing that
9 procedure?
10 A. For using the --
11 - Q. Respirators.
12 A. -respirators? Again, the general.manager.
13 Q. So at some point prior to your arrival.
14 Mr. Huff, or otherwise, or somebody else, decided that '
15 when a person empties the vacuuming bags, they ought to
16 use a respirator?
.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Were respirators made available in any other
19 function in the Rayloc facilities?
.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What functions? .
.
22 A. If an employee wanted one, they could have
23 one.
24 Q. Were there any signs, when you arrived in
25 1976, waming about the dangers of asbestos?
"
.'
Page 91
Page 93
1
A. It's a flat table, where you would be'working
.
2 on something like right here (indicating) with a bunch
3 of holes on it. And the vacuum unit is sucking down, -
4 so that any particles that would be thrown off would go
5 down and not go up toward the worker.
6 Q. How long had the company had down-draft tables
7 prior to 1976?
.
8 ...A. I don't know. I know they were in place.
9 That's all I can tel) you.
10 Q. What was the central vacuuming system that was
II used?
.
12
A. A dust collector.
'
13 Q. Describe that to me.
.
14 A. A huge, huge vacuum cleaner. Dust collectors
15 were units like used on whedabraiorj. And they're used
16 in all industries. But they're the most efficient way.
17 Like your central vac at home, you know how they sell
IS that? Same type of principle.
19 . Q. Where was the central vacuum system used?
20 What part of the operation?
21 A. All pans, from removing of the old asbestos
22 parts, from wheelabrating of the part, from riveting the
23 part back on, from grinding the part, from transporting
24 the part to the packaging table, and at the packaging
25 (able.
1 2 3'4
5 6 7 8
9 10
11 ' 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24. 25
A. 1 cannot recall. ,
.
Q. Were there any signs there after 1976 warning '
about the dangers of asbestos?
,
A. Yes.
.
Q. And that was something that you would have .
been involved in in your position after 1976?
A. No.
_ . '
Q. .No? Wbat were the signs that were installed
after 1976? A. Well, we had asbestos waste trash cans. So if
anything -- if it was n piece of material that broke or what-have-you, you didn't throw it in the normal trash.
They also hat) a safety manual and, you know, worker's right to know. And everyone was educated on what hazards they were being exposed to within their particular area of responsibility, their job function.
We only had one person, to my knowledge, that
ever asked for a respirator. _
Q. I'm sorry. 1 missed something here. Were there specific signs posted around the
plant about tbe dangers? . A. 1 can't recall specific signs. Q. Were there written documents related to
,
.
procedures for those people who were, safety procedures
for those people who were around or using asbestos?
. r .
.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-35.1-4577'
24 (Pages 90 to 93.)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
.
..
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
. Page 94
'
'
Page 96
1 2 3 4 5 .6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ' 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. 1 can't recall that.
.
Q. Were there specific training sessions that
were offered or information sessions that were offered
to workers who were either around or working with
asbestos products?
A. What time frame?
.
, Q. Well, at any time were you familiar with
any -
*
A. Yes.
.
.
Q. When were they implemented?
A. Late `80s, early '90s.
.
Q. Is there a written document regarding the use
of the vacuuming system or any other system for reducing
the exposure to asbestos at the Rayloc facilities?
,
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Now, before you arrived in Atlanta at 1976,
had you ever been to the plant before? .
A. Yes.
'
.
. Q. When's the earliest that you visited there?
A. 71.
.
Q. Okay. When you visited in 1971, was the -
central vacuuming system in place? A. 1 don't recall, 1 cannot recall that
Q. Did you ever visit after 71? Do recall the
central vacuuming system being in place?
1 Q. Sometime prior to 1971. though, is it fair to
2 say?
...
.
.'
3 . .A. 1 don't recall.
.
4 Q. Other than the insurance company, what source
5 of information Genuine Parts had that alerted it to any
6 . dangers associated with asbestos?
7 A. During what lime period? '
8 . Q. Well, at any point in time.
9 ' A. They could have had notification from APRA.
10 Q. Anybody else?
.
II ' A. That's all that 1 know.
'
1-2 Q. What is APRA?
.
'
13 A. Automotive Parts Rebuilders Association.
.
14 Q. Are you familiar with any information that
,
IS APRA disseminated to its members about asbestos?
16 A. About asbestos? It was when - what I'm
17 familiar with has nothing to do with asbestos dust, but
18 it did concern asbestos.
.
19 Q. What did it concern?
20 A. It's when the EPA was not going to allow
21 a rebuilder to recycle the old brake shoe on the old
22 clutch disc. We were not, "we" being APRA or Rayloc, 23 was not against the ban on asbestos. We were against
24 the fact that we.could not recycle and save the ecology,
25 environment.
..
.
. '.
. Page 95
' . '
Page 97
1 A. No. 1 just noted the down-draft tables. '
2 Q. When do you recall the down-draft tables being
3 in place?
.
.4 A. In'71.
5 Q. Did you have an understanding in 1971 as to
6 why Rayloc wbs using the down-draft tables?
7 A. No. .
8 . Q. You just knew that they were down-draft ' ' '
9 tiles?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. When did you first gain any recognition about
12 the hazards associated with asbestos, you personally?
13 A. In '76. ,
.
14 Q. What was it about 1976 that caused you to have
15 that knowledge?
16 A.. Because being in the plant and the industrial
17 . hygiene testing that was going on. 18 Q. All right. Where did Genuine Parts or Rayloc
. 19 learn about the need for such things as down-draft
20' tables?
21 A. I'm sure from the insurance company.
22 Q. As the corporate designee ofGenuine Pans,
23 when did Genuine Parts first leam about any hazards
24 .associated with asbestos?
-
.
25 A. 1 don't recall the exact date.
r Q Just so I'm clear, is it your testimony that
2 the reason that Genuine Parts put in down-draft tables .
3 and the central vacuuming system has some relationship
4 to information that came from its insurance company?
5 A. Yes.
.
6 Q. Is it your understanding that any procedures .
7 prior to that regarding the handling of asbestos,
8 containerizing it, or segregating it, was as a result
.
9 of information the company received from its insurance
10 company?
'
11 A. Yes.
.
12 Q. ` What specific information did Genuine Parts
13 or Rayloc receive from its insurance company about the
i4 . hazards of asbestos?
.' '
15 A. j did not set the document. 1 only knew at
16 the time that I arrived in '76 that they were involved 17 in the monitoring of asbestos and the proper disposal of
. 18 asbestos product.
.
19 Q. After Genuine Parts was advised by its
20 insurance company with respect to the dangers or hazards
21 of asbestos, did die company appoint anyone to act as
22 a point person with respect to finding out the
.
23 particular dangers or hazards ofasbestos? . 24 A. No, (lien.- was no one person. Again, genera)
25 managers >vcrv responsible for his plant.
_l
' 25 (Pages 94 io 97)
WHEELER RPORTIMG COMPANY. rNC., 404-351-4577" .
' ' . '
Hicks; et at. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
....
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
.
Page 98
' Page 100
'1
2 3 ,4
5 6 7 8 9 10 tl 12 12 14 13 16 17 IS 19 20 21 22 23 24 23
Q. Was (here any shift in your duties and .
responsibilities or personnel at Genuine Pans or Rayloc
from before the insurance company notified you about the
hazards of asbestos lo after the company notified you '
about the hazards of asbestos?
'
A. No.
.
Q. Was there any department that assumed
responsibility, any greater responsibility with respect
to the dangers or hazards associated with asbestos after
;
you were notified by your insurance company, as compared
to before you were notified?
.
A. No.
.
Q. Did the company employ any consultants, other '
than through its insurance company, with respect to the
dangers or hazards of asbestos after it was first
.
notified by its insurance company?
A. No.
''
Q. Did Genuine Parts attempt to investigate any
.
of the hazards or dangers of asbestos after it was .
notified by its insurance company, other than thework .
it did in connection with its insurance company at the
plant?.
.
A. Well, when they were made aware that it was
a potential hazard to a person's health, they took
corrective action immediately to prevent any exposure -
1 2 '3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
received any medical literature about the dangers or
hazards of asbestos? .A. f do not recall that, no.
Q. Does Rayloc have an industrial hygienist or
medical doctor on staff?
A. No, they do not.
.
Q. After you were notified about the dangers or
hazards of asbestos from your insurance company, was
there any decision or discussion about whether or not
. you should hire an industrial hygienist or a medical .
doctor at any of the Rayloc facilities?
'
A. Not that I can recall
Q. Has Genuine Parts or Rayloc ever employed the
services of any outside industrial hygienist or medical
doctor with respect to the asbestos in its plants?
.
A. With respect lo asbestos in its plants or the
exposure to the employee?
Q. Either/or.
, '
A. You Ivave to rephrase your question, please.
Q. Okay. Has Rayloc or has Genuine Pans ever gone out and hired an industrial hygienist or medical doctor as-a consultant in any way related to asbestos?
A. No.
.
Q. I've seen in the documents that were produced
to me yesierduy Material Safety Data Sheets.
'
Page 99
Page 101
1 2 3 .4
5 6` 7 8 9 10 II 12
13.
14 13 16 17 18 19 20 21 . 22 23 '24 25
to excessive dust.
'
Q. . That was at the plant?
A. At the plant..
. Q. Can you tell.me who the person was at Genuine
Parts who was responsible for investigating whether or ' .
not Genuine Parts products were producing dust when
mechanics used them in the normal course of their work?
A. That were producing dust or were not producing
dust?
Q. Were or were hot.
. '
A. Were not - was anyone appointed? . '
Q. Let me uk you - let me rephrase the
'
question.
Was anyone appointed or did anyone have the
specific responsibility of saying, we should ensure that
mechanics who are using our products are not producing '
dust when they use our product, after you learned about
the hazards From your insurance company?
'
A. Our product did not have dust in it, so we had -
no reason to appoint someone. .
Q. So the answer is there was no one appointed to
ensure what you already knew, 1 guess? '
.
A. Well, we ensured it by making sure we kept it
in the plant.
'.
,Q. Are you aware ofanyone at Genuine Parts who
,
1 A. (Nods head affirmatively.)
.
2- . Q. You have to say "yes." .
'
3' A. Yes.
.
4 ... MR. RILEY; You're asking him to agree
.
5 that you saw them yesterday. 6 MR. DUMLER: You can't shake your head.
7 MR. RILEY; You have to ask a question.
S Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Are you familiar with :
9 Material Safety Data Sheets?.
.'
10 A. From whom?
.
II Q. Are you familiar with them in general?
12 ' A. Yes.
13. Q. When is the first time that you have any
14 recollection of receiving a Material Safety Data Sheet
15 from any manufacturer? '
'
16 A. 1 don't recall the exact time.
17 Q. Can you give me a general time frame?
18 A. '80s, late '80s.
.
19 (Plaintiffs' Exhibits LeCour 30, 11, and 12
20 . .21 22
were marked.) Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'll give you 10, 11, and 12.
First take a look at Exhibit No. 10, and tell
23 me whai that is.
24 A. It's an Abcx Material Safety Data Sheet.
25 Q. When did you first begin to receive Material
'
'.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. INC., 40^3.51-457.7
26 (Pages 9S to .101)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
...
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
'" ' Page 102
. : Page 104
1 Safety Data Sheets from Abex? At the same lime frame,
. 2 late '80s?
3 A. Ye*.
4 Q. Nos. 11 and 12. what are those documents?
5 A. Material Safety Data Sheets, Abex lining.
6 That's it. . . "
'
7 . Q. These are prepared by Rayloc; is that correct? '
8 A; Thij Item 11 would have been prepared by
9 Rayloc.
'
' 10
Q. Did you have any involvement in preparing that -
11 document?
12 A. No, 1 did not.
13 Q. Do you know where the information that was
14 -placed on that document came from? It looks like '
. 13 a computer-generated document.
16 . A. It would have come from Abex, because it
17 designates Abex lining.
. '
18 Q. So the information is provided by Abex. And . '
19 then it's just simply put on the sheet by Rayloc;
20 is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22
Q. All right. Prior to gening the Material
,
23 Safety Data Sheet, was there ever any other data or '
. 24 product information that was sent to you by any of the
25 manufactures along the same lines as this, warning of
1 A. Yes.
'
.
2 Q. Did Genuine Parts use this document in
3 connection with its Rayloc operation?
4 A. No.
' 3 Q. What's the reason that you or'someone else
'
'6 at Genuine Parts would get a'copy of this document?
7 ' A. FMSI itself is supported by themanufaeturers
8 of friction material. We would get this document here
9 to look at, for cataloging purposes, to make sure as
10 a comparison of whal we are cataloging versus what
II they're saying tu catalog.
.
12 ' ' We also wanted to do it on thickness, because
13 they do supply the thickness of the material in the
14 back. And then how is it attached, it tells you whether
15 it's integrally molded or whether it's riveted. I'm
16 speaking of a disc pad. That's the reason why we would
17 vse it.
' .
.
18 It also gives specifications of the drum
19 diameter, the width. So we would use it for really
20 brake shoe and disc pad identification purposes.
21 Q. So when the catalog, die FMSI catalog, came
22 out. would you compare that catalog to the catalog you
'23 were producing?
.
24 . A. Well, it wouldn't be 100 percent. But,yes,
25 if they, came out with any new information, we always
.
Page 103
".
Page 103
1 any particular dangers or health hazards? .
. 1 looked at the new information from a dimensional point
2 A. Not that 1 can recall.
2 of View, And th:it's what we used it for, to make sure*
3
(Plaintiffs'. Exhibit LeCour 13 was marked.)
3 we had the applications covered.
4 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I've given you Exhibit
4 Q. Who would be responsible for going through the
5 No. 13, an FMSJ Brake Shoe Identification Catalog.
5 catalog and comparing it to your particular catalogs?
6 And other than the name, can you tell me what this is?
6 A. What time, frame?
:
7 A. Friction Material Standard Institute..
. 7 ' Q. Well, let's say the 1970s.
S Q. What is the catalog used for? . 9 ' " A. Weil, the catalog is used to specify by
' 8 A. I would. '
'
. 9 Q. So did you receive each of the catalogs that '
10 application what strip lining or what friction material 10 came out from FMSI -
'.
11 you'll use on that particular application.
11 A. Uhchuh.
.
' 12
Q. All right. Is this a document that came from
12
Q. -in the 1970s?
'
13 your personal file?
. 13
A. Uh-huh.
'
14 A. It coiild have. I have copies like this.
14 Q. Al the back of this catalog, Bates No. 120535 . t
13 ' Q. How-long have you been getting copies of this
15 there's recommended procedures for reducing asbestos
J6 particular catalog from FMSJ?
16 dust during brake servicing.
17 A. Well, it doesn't come out all the -- or '
17 _ Art you familiar with that document?
IS regularly! So I Would say it would have been started in
18 . A. Yes, 1 am.
19 the late '70s, early '80s.
19 Q. When did you first leam about those
20 Q. The date on this is IS. Do you have any 21 recollection of receiving this document prior to 1978 -
20 recommended procedures from FMSI? .
.
21 A. I can't recall the exact time, but these
22 or another catalog from a prior year?
.22 procedures we used internally every day at Rayloc.
23 A. I've seen some in prior years. . 23 ' Q. Do you remember taking ihose procedures and
24 Q. All right. So what's the earliest, early
' 24 matching them against the procedures you were using
25 '70s, that you -
' 25 iii'housc?
'WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-351 -4577
27 (Pages' 102 io 105)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc'., el al.
6/1/01. Paul L. LeCour
'
' Page 106
Page 108-
1 .2
'3
4
5 6 7 ' 8 9 10 11 12 13 . 14 IS 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
A. Well, just the controlling ofdust, that's
i
basically what we did.
'.
Q. J'm asking whether you got a copy of those
2
3
FMSI procedures and someone at Genuine Pans or Rayloc ' 4
made a conscious-decision or effort to ensure that the
5
procedures at Rayloc or Genuine Parts were consistent
6
with those procedures from FMSI?
.7
A. No.
.
.
8
Q. Did you at any time go through those
9
procedures and generally see whether or not your
10
internal operations at Rayloc matched up with those .
11
procedures?
' '.
12
A. No.
.13
Q. Okay. Did you read those procedures to see '
14
whether or not your procedures that you had already put
15
in place were sound procedures when compared to what
16
FMSI was doing?
17
A. No.
.
18
Q. What did you do with the information that
19
you read from FMSI about recommended procedures?
' 20
A. What I did was'l recognized the dangers of ,
' 21
asbestos. And I knew that we were monitoring that in
22
our plants, and we were controlling it, and we were
23
being within the law. And that's what 1 was concerned.
24
about.
...
. 25
A. Yes.
`
Q. Did you ever go out and buy a box of brake
'
shoes and find out they contained a warning with respect
to asbestos? '
'
.A. No.
.
Q., Did you ever receive any information from
. Abex or Bendix in the '70s related to the dangers of
asbestos?
.'
A. Not that 1 can recall.
.
Q. Did Genuine Parts or Rayloc, to your '
knowledge, as the-corporate designee, ever receive any.
warnings from any of its suppliers about regarding the
dangers of asbestos?
. '
A. Not that bean recall.
Q. Did Abex, Bendix, or any of your other
suppliers ever say to you - strike that. Let me go
back.
'
What discussions or information did you convey
to Bendix ami Abex about your particular operations?
A.. We wanted a safe piece of friction material.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. We wanted a safe piece of friction material to
stop a vehicle.
.
Q. Let's start with Abex. Did Abex come and
visit any of your plants? .
- '
''
Page 107
.
. Page 109
1 Q.. .You don't have any recollection of the first
.1
A. Yes.
.
.
2 time or the earliest time-you saw that document?
' 3 . A. No. It would have to be '76, you know, in
2 Q. When did that occur?
. '
3' A. They were visiting our plants before I got
4 that time frame, the mid- to late `70s.
4 there.
''
5 Q. How did you get a copy of the document? Was 5 Q. Would it be fair to say that Genuine Pans
:
6 it through the catalog, or was it through some other
6 conveyed to Abex and made Abex knowledgeable about its
' 7 avenue?
'
7 ' operations and manufacturing facilities, including the -
8
A. From the manufacturer. These catalogs were
8 fact that Rayloc was grinding the brake linings and the
9 sent to us by the manufacturer, either an Abes or
9 brake shoes?-
,
.
.
10 whoever, Tbiokol; it could be any of them.
10 A. Well, Abex knew we were grinding, because they
11 Q. My question is: The first time you saw this
II furnished the specifications to do so.
'. '
.
12 recommended procedures, was that in the catalog, or did 12
Q. Al any time did Abex ever advise you about the
13 you see it somewhere else?
13 dangers associated with asbestos in connection with your .
14 A. In the catalog. '
. 14 grinding activities? ' -.'
IS Q. At what point in time were you aware that
15 A. Not to my knowledge, no.
.
16 your competitors, any of your competitors, were placing
16
Q. Did Abex ever make any inquiry from you about
17 warnings on their products about the dangers of
18 asbestos?
'
17 what steps you were taking in your manufacturing IS facilities to reduce the exposure of asbestos in
'
19 A. I can't recall.
. 19 connection with the grinding operation?
20 Q. You indicated during the course of this
20 A. No.
.'
.
21 deposition that you may test competitors' products;
21 Q. Did you ever share with Abex any of the '.
22 is that correct?
.
. 22 procedures that you had in place to reduce the exposure
23 A. Oh, yes.
. .
23 to asbestos from your manufacturing operations?
24 Q. You would actually go out and buy a boa of
24 A. No.
25 brake shoes?
*
' 25 Q. So basically, between you and Abex, there
.
2S (Pages 106 to 109)
' WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-351-4577
Hicks, et at. v. ACandS, Inc., el al.
6/1/0! - Paul L. LeCour. .
Page 110
; . Page 112
1 were, fair to say, no discussions whatsoever about the . 1 ' A. Well, when I was reviewing the documents.
'
2 dangers associated with your grinding operations or . - 2
Q. All right. Do you know where the document .
.
3 manufacturing operations at Rayloc from asbestos?
3 came from?
4 A. Yes.
' `4 ' A. Well, it came from Thiokol, according to this.
5 Q. How about with respect to Bendix? Was Bendix
5 It says, "Courtesy of Thiokol."
6 made aware of your operations, including the fact that. . 7 you were grinding its products?
. 6 Q. No, 1 mean internally, where was the document
7 located at Genuine Parts? .
'
8 A. Well, they would know that wt would be
8 A. Oh, ii would love been at Rayloc with Tom -
9 . grinding the product:
.
. 9 Daniel's name uu it.
10 Q. Is that because Bendix also provided you with
10 Q. Was it in Mr. Daniel's file? Was it in
.
11 specifications?.
II a drawer?
'
' 12
A. Ho. We used Abex specifications.
' 12 A. Oh, 1 don't know where he would have kept it.
13 Q. You used-Abex specifications on Bendix
13 Q. What was the reason or - . .
14 material?
'
.14 A. I don't know.why.
IS A. Yes.
"
15 i see "Friction Material Standard Institute"
16 Q. Ho'w did you make Bendix aware of the fact '
16 on here (indicating). The only thing that ii Jtrange
17 that you were grinding Bendix friction products?
. 17 about It is it was supplied.by a manufacturer who does
18 A. Because when you order the segment, you oVder . 18 disc brake pucks only, not brake lining. So why he got
19 it in a certain thickness. And then you know from that
19 it, 1 don't know. Why he sent it to him, 1 don't know.
20 thickness, you're going to get it to a finished center
20 Q. Mr. Daniel didn't come to you in 1978 and say,
21 thickness.
' 21 I've got this information?
.
22 Q. Did you have any discussions at all with
22 A. No, because, actually, if Mr. Daniel got this.
23 Bendix Bbout the dangers associated with your
. 23 it would be internal. And he already knew internally we
24 manufacturing operadons and grinding of their asbestos ' 24 were doing the proper procedure, as outlined in this
25 friction product?
25 document, for the controlling of dust, because he was
.
. Page 111
. ' Page 113
1 A. No.
1 only involved in production.
,.
2.
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 14 was marked.) . 2
Q. Mr. LeCour, when were you first advised about .
3 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'm going to give you what's
3 any requirements, internal requirements of OSHA, with
4 been marked as Exhibit 14. Can you tell me what that
4 respect to your operations in the Rayloc facilities?
.
5 document is?
5 A.. 1976.
.
6 A. I can tell you that it is courtesy of Thiokol
6 Q. Who was the person before you who was
7 disc brake pads, "Friction Material Work Practice
7 responsible for ensuring compliance with any OSHA .
8 Guide."
.
8 regulations?
.
.
9 ' Q. Have you ever seen that document before?
9 A. Well, again, the general manager was before .
10 A. Yes, I have.
10 I arrived and after 1 arrived.
II. Q. Is this document contained in your personal .
11 Q. Is that Mr. HufT, or is that somebody else?
12 folder?
. ,
12 A. No, someone else.
.
.
13 A. No.
13 Q.. Who is that?
''
.
14 Q. There's a name on the top, Tom Daniel. Who
14 A. Whoever the general manager -- you mean in
15 was that?
15 Atlanta?
'
'
16 .
A. He was plant production manager in Atlanta.
16
Q. Correct.
'
17
Q. Do you have any knowledge of why Mr. Daniel
17
A. That would have been Ed Kipling.
18 would have received this document or why his name is 18 Q. - You are then familiar with the regulations
19 on the top of it?
'
19 . that OSHA issued with respect to asbestos in the early
20 . A. No, I do not.
' '
20 1970s?
..
21 Q. When is the first time that you saw that
' 21
A. I'd have to see what you're referring to.
22 document?
.
. 22. You'd have to show me a document.
23
A. Three weeks ago, four weeks ago, when.l was
23 ' ' Q. Well, (hen let me ask you: What specific OSHA
24 reviewing.
. . 24 regulations arc you familiar with that had an effect in
25 Q. You were getting ready for this deposition?
' 25 the 1970s on your plant operations at Rayloc?
''
'
' ... . . . ...............
;.
. 29 (Pages 110 to 113)
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, fNC., 404G51-4577
" '' . .
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al. 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
Page 114
'
. Page 116
1 A. It would be the amount of exposure over
2 a period of time that an employee would be exposed to
3 asbestos dust.
.'
. 4 Q. Who made you aware of those OSHA requirements?
j A. It would have been the general manager.
6 Q. Did you have a meeting when you got there or
7 just developed that knowledge over time?
.'
8
A. Just-developed that knowledge over time.
9 Q. Al any point in time during your employment
10 with Genuine Parts, have you ever attended a meeting in
ir which there was a discussion regarding compliance with
12 (he OSHA regulations?
'
.
13 A. No.
14 Q. In Response to Interrogatories in this case.
13 Mr. LeCour, Answer to Inierrogatory No. 74, which I'll
16 read part of to you, talks about the reason that there .17 was not a warning on particular boxes of products. I'm
18. going to read this to you and ask you a question about
19 ir.
.'
' 20 ,
The response is: "With respect to aftermarket
.
21 brake shoes sold by GPC/Auiomoiive, OSHa exempted such
22 products from its warning label requirement promulgated -
23 in. 1972 Tor asbestos-containing produets because the 24 asbestos contained in the friction material was
25 encapsulated in binders and resins and thus not .
I- any appreciable amounts.
2 Q. Okay. That's my question, sir. Did you go
3 through that process and say and ask the question, do
4 we have to warn and come to the conclusion, no, that you
5 did not; or did you simply not even know about OSHA's -
6 warning requirements to third parties?
7 A. Right. 1 was not aware about - when you say '
8 "third parties," that being the end-user? .
9 Q. Correct.
.
10 A. No, we were riot -- 1 was not aware of that.
il We were concerned internally in our plant..
12 Q. All right. So the fact that there were no
13 warnings on the boxes that you sold to jobbers didn't 14 have anything to do with any OSHA exemprion?
15 A. I'm not aware of that.
16 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated that your thinking
.17 was that the end-user or the mechanic would not be
.
18 . exposed to any dust.
19 When is the first lime you remember having . .
20 that actual conscious thought about whether your boxes
21 should contain a warning or not?
22
A. It was in 1988. .
'
23 Q. Prior to 1988, did you give any thought 24 whatsoever to whether or not your product should contain
.25 a warning related to asbestos? '
-
. ' ' Page 115
'
Page 117
1 generally respirable." .
.
'
2 Okay. Are you familiar with that response?
3 A. I'm familiar with what you just said, yes. 4 Q. At any point in time while you were employed
5 by Genuine Parts', did you ever have any discussions with
6 anybody, other than your counsel, about whether or not
7 you were required to have a warning on your products in
8 compliance with the OSHA regulations? 9 ' A. No.
'
10 Q. So with respect to the fact (hat there were no
II warnings on your boxes, it wasn't a conscious decision '
12 that, we've read OSHA, and we are exempted, correct?
13 A. 1 wasn't involved in that. 1 would not know. '
14 I'd say no to that.
15 ' Q.- Can you tell me, if you weren't involved, who
16 would have been involved in that conscious decision? .
17 A. General manager. .
18 - Q. Are you aware, as the corporate designee, of
19 any conscious analysis that was done about whether or
20 not a label needed to be done in compliance with OSHA?
21 A. Yes. Our thinking and our testing internally
22 in the plants met all requirements. And as stated there
23 (indicating), because of the way in which the product '
24 was presented to the end-user and no modification
25 necessary to install, (hat they would not be exposed to
1 A. No, because wc didn't feel it applied to the 2 way our product was presented to our customer.
. ** .
3 Q. That's my question, sir. 4 MR. RILEY: Yes. He's answering. And try
5 and straighten it out.
-
6 , MR. DUMLER: I'm trying. .
7 MR. RJLEY: Okay.
.
8 Q. (Hy Mr. Dumler) At some point in rime, sir,
9 did you make a conscious decision that. I'm aware of the
.10 dangers of asbestos, but there's no need for us to warn,
II because people, mechanics, aren't going to grind our
12 brake shoes?'
-
.
13 A. Yts.
.
' .. '
14 Q. What year are w* talking about?
.
15 A. 1988.
16
Q. All right. So prior to 1988, you made no
.
17 ' conscious analysis as to whether or not you should put
18 a warning on your boxes? ' 19 A. We didn't feel it was applicable to do so. 20 Q. All right. From what date did you feel that
21 it was nor required that you put a warning on your
.
22 boxes?
.
23 A. Not until 19SS did we feel that it was
24 necessary to put a warning un our finished product going
25 to our customer.
'
.
' . , .
.'
/ ' 30 (Pages 114 to 117)
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-351-4577
. .' .
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, [nc., et al. ,
. 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
.
'
Page IIS
.
Page 120
1 Q. At any point prior to 1988, did you have any
2 discussions with anybody at Genuine Pans, other than
3 your attorneys, about whether or not you needed
4 a warning on your boxes?.
"'
5 A. No.
6 . MR. RILEY: Okay. That's where you're
'
7 getting tripped up.
8 Did somebody else at Genuine.Pans make
.9 a conscious decisipn before '88 that'the
' 10
product was made in such a way that they
It did,not have to put a warning on it? -
.
12 '
THE WITNESS: Yes.
'
13 MR. RILEY: And who was that?
14 .THE WITNESS: That would have been .the
15 general manager. .
'
.
16 MR. RILEY: Do you know when that decision
17 was made?
>8.
19
THE WITNESS: No. , MR. RILEY: Okay. .
-
20
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Who was the general manager
21 who made that decision?
'
' 22
A. It would have been Ed Kipling.
'
23 Q. Ed Kipling?
'.
24 A. Ub-bub.
.
25
Q. Did you ever have any discussions with .
.
1 A. No, 1 do not recall that date.
2 Q. You don't have any recollection of the
3 first - '
.
.
4 A.. No. .
.
'5 Q. Did you make any efTon, in connection with'
6 preparing for today's deposition, to find out when the
7 first lawsuit was filed against Genuine Pans for an .
8 asbestos matter'.'
'
9 A. No.
10 Q. Do you know who you would go see to get that
11 information?
. _
u
12 A. Yes.
'
13 ' Q- Who?
14 A. Scott Smith.
.,
IS Q. What's Mr. Smith's position?
16 A. He's legal counsel for Cenuine Parts Company.
17 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 15 was marked.)
18 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I hand you what's been
19 marked as Exhibit No. 15, which I'll ask you if you can
20 identify that document for me? 21 A. It's headed "Raybestos Manhattan Corporate .
22 Headquarters, Product Liability." And it's Jim Arnold
23 at Balkamp, Inc., Indianapolis, Indiana.
24 Q. What else was Mr. Arnold's connection to
25 Genuine Pans?
.'
Page 119.
'
' Page 121
1 Mr. Kipling as to why he came to the conclusion that
2' no warning was required?
' 3 A. No.
''
4 Q. Did you ever go to Mr. Kipling and say, why
5 don't our boxes have a warning or are we warning or
6 I heard we're not warning?
.
7 A. Our understanding was, if you were processing
8 q product that is either making it from scratch, being
9 the frietion material manufacturer, or rebuilding it by
10 removing the old friction material and putting on new
11 friction material, yoji are concerned about asbestos
12 dust, and you need to take precautionary measures.
13 But when we finished doing our process and
14 we shipped it out, there was no other need to do any.
15 grinding, chipping, shifting, or anything to the
16 friction material. So it was not necessary to warn. .
17 - Q.. When is the first lime, sir, that Genuine
18' Parts was sued in connection with 3ny asbestos claim?
19 A. 1 can't recall the first time.
20 Q. I've seen a reference in other material dated
21 1980. Do you have any recollection of that date?
.
22. MR. RILEY: I'll object to that well.
23- . All right. Go ahead.
24 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'm just trying to help
25 things along here.
'
.
1 A. I'm not aware. I don't know.
'
2 Q. Have you ever seen this document before?
3 ' A. No, 1 have not. 4 Q. Do you know why this would be in the files of
5 ' Genuine Parts? 6 A. Let me took.. .
.
'
7 MR. RILEY: Well, let me state for the ' 8 record, while he's reading it, that that 9 document was provided to counsel by Balkamp in
10 an effort to answer your interrogatories, II or interrogatories in another jurisdiction,
12 ' concerning the asbestos tape that was
.
13 . previously tested by two in the deposition. .
14 Q. (By lylr- Dumler) Do you have any knowledge
15 about the circumstances surrounding that request and .
16 response from Raybestos?
.
.
17 A. No, I do not. " IS Q. Do you have any idea who would have, other
19 than Mr. Arnold?
'
20. A. No, I do not.
'
21 Q. Has Genuine Parts made any effort after 1980
22 to be added as an additional insured under any products
23 . liability policy or purchase any products liability
24 policy itself in connection with any asbestos matter?
25
A. I'm nut familiar with that, no.
.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY,TNC,, 40^351-^1577
31 (Pages 1 IS to 121)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., ct at.
!
. 6/1/01 - Paul l. LeCour
Page 122
'
Page 124
' 1 Q. Do you know whether or not there's any
- 1 A. Its letterhead is Abex, 1C Industries.
.
2 relationship berween Genuine Parts' efforts to be added
2 It's to Joseph White with Rayloc.
.
3 as an additional insured under product liability.
3 ' MR. RJLEY: What's the date?
4' coverage and any lawsuits that were filed in 1980
4 THE WITNESS: The date is December 7th,
5 against Genuine Parts for an asbestos matter?
'5
1987.
.
6 A. I'm not aware.
6 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) The letter references
7
Q. You don't know one way or the other? .
7 a decision by Abex to stop the production of
'
8 A. I'm not aware. :
8 asbestos-containing brake parts; is that correct?
9 Q. ' Now, between --
.
. 9 A. Yes, itdoes.
10 MR. RILEY: Well, for the record, that
10 Q. When were you.initially informed that Abex was
II exhibit, which speaks for itself, relates to
. II going to discontinue selling asbestos-containing brake
12 Ballkamp's request, not Genuine Parts'.
. . 12 products?
'
' 13 ' 14
MR. DUMLER: Okay.
.
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Now, between I960 and 1980,
13 i4
A. 1 personally don't remember. '
Q. This indicates' it's the official notification.
IS . who was the primary supplier of friction materials to
15
My question is whether you had heard before
16 ' Rayloc?
.
16 this that they were -
17 A. Abex.
'
17 A. Oh, yes.
..
18 Q. How long after 1980 did Abexeontinue to be
18 Q. - heading in this direction?
19 the primary supplier to Genuine Parts? 20 MR. RJLEY: Of-
19- A. Yes.
.
. 20 Q. How long before the official notification did
21 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Of friction material.
22 A.' Until the '90s.
'
21 you learn that --:
22 A. They had a lot of - well, it had to be two to
23 Q. When in the '90s did Abex stop being the 24 primary supplier of friction material to Genuine Parts
23 three years prior, let's say two years prior to the '87
24 date.
..
25 for brakes?
.
25 Q. I'm sorry. Two years prior? '
'
''
Page 123
Page 125
1 A. It would have been the early '90s.
'.
2 Q. '91, '90/91?
3 A. Between '90 and '95.
4 ' Q. Who became the primary supplier after Abes
5 stopped being the primary supplier?
.
6 . A. BP1.
.
' 7 Q. I'm sorry. BPI?
8
A. Uh-huh.
'
9 "'q. Who is BPI?
.
. .
.
.
.
10 . A. Brake Parts, Incorporated, which at that time
II was owned by Echlin. .
12 Q. Was there a written agreement between Abex '
13 and Genuine Pans for the supply of brake products? '
14 A. No.
'.
IS' Q. Am 1 correct that Bendix was the next most
16 frequent supplier between I960 and 1980?
17 A. Yes.
18 ' Q. What was the reason that Genuine Pans
'
19. preferred to use Abex over Bendix between I960 and 1980? 20 A. Because of the long working relationship. '
21 -
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 16 was marked.) .
22 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I've given you what's been
23 marked as Exhibit No. 16. And it appears 10 be a letter
24 from Abex. Are you familiar with that document? Can
25 you identify it for me?
'
' .
1 . A. Uh-huh.-
2 Q. And is it-correct that in the rwo years before '
3 this December 7th, 1987, you starred to get shipments-of
4 non-asbestos brake linings from Abex? '
.
5 A. We got some shipments, yes.
:
6 : MR. DUMLER: Let's have this marked as the
p
7 next exhibit.
..
-.
8 , ' (Plaintiff Exhibit LeCour 17 was marked.)
9 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Can you identify Exhibit
10 No. 17 forme?
.
''
II A. It's a handwritten note from Joe Benator to
12 Paul LeCour. And it's dated 1/28/87. Okay.
13 Q! That note references that you were starring . ,
14 10 get non-asbcsios brake linings from Abex; is that .
15 correct?
.
16 A. Yes.
'
17 Q. All right. This would be consistentwith
18 what you understood about Abex was going to be phasing . 19 out asbestos-containing products: is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Now, there's a reference in there with respect
22 io using up all the old friction material, the
"
23 asbestos-containing friction material?
..
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So was there a conscious decision made, before
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. INC.. `104051-4577
32 (Pages 122 to 125)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
., 6/1/01Paul L. LcCour
. Page 126
' ' Page 128
1 using the new Abex material, to get rid of or use up
2 your supplies of old asbestos material?
^.
3 . ' A. Well, sure. We didn't want to throw away
4 good money. And we had no problem with getting out
5 of asbestos, nor did we make the decision to pursue to
6 get out of asbestos, because, again, we were doing
7 everything internally to control that problem.
8 . Abex made this conscious decision 'and was not
9 prepared for it.
'
10 Q. What do you mean they were not prepared Tor '
11 it?
.
'
12 A. The product didn't work properly, safely.
13 And we're very concerned about safety.
14 But what they offered us at the beginning did .
15 not work satisfactorily to us, so we refused to use it.
. 16 , Q. When you were notified that Abex was going to
17 start ultimately discontinuing its use of asbestos, did
18 you stan to look for alternative suppliers at that
19 lime? " .
' 20
A. Yes, we did. .
21 Q. Was Allied-Signal/Bendix one of the companies
22 you turned to?
23 A. Yes, it was. '
'
24 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 18 was marked.)
25 Q. (By Mr. Durnler) 1 show you what's been marked
1 A. So -
.
. 2 Q. I'm sorry. Professional?
3 A. Professional quality.
-
' 4 Q. What's the middle grade?
.
5 A. Okay. The middle grade -- well, standard
`
6 quality, okay, and then economy.
7. Q. Which of those three grades are you talking
8 about you were going to continue asbestos?
9 A. Standard and economy.
'
10 Q. So professional would be you would phase.out
11 asbestos and use the non*asbe$ios products; standard and
12 economy, as 0|"9I, you wanted to continue using
13 asbestos?
.14 A. Well, in the professional quality line, we
.
15 were also looking st a replacement, because'we still did
16 not have a suitable non-asbestos material. They didn't
17 have all part numbers covered, so we would have to lind
18 another source in our first line, professional quality
19 line.
20 Then there were thc.questions of the formulas .
21 themselves. They were not performing correctly, so we
22 might have had to stay with the asbestos in first
23 . professional quality as welt. '
'
24 Q. At what point in time did you ever have a -
25 did you ever implement a plan to say, by a certain date,
. Page 127 .
'
. ' Page 129
r as Exhibit No. 18. Let me ask you if you can identify
2 that document for me?
.
3 A. It's titled "Bendlx/Allied-Signal, Bendix
4 Friction Material Division, July 25th. 1991. It's
5 addressed to Jack Hughes.
' . '
6 Q. Who's Mr. Hughes?
,'
7 A. Mr. Hughes was the division purchasing
8 inventory control manager.
9 " Q. Does this document have any connection to
10 Abex's decision to phase out asbestos products?
'
II A. Yes. ....
12 Q. What's the connection? . .
13 A. The connection is that Abex said, we're not
14 going to have asbestos products available. We were
15 using them both in our first and second line. So we
16 were pursuing the replacement, because we were not going
17 . to sever our relationships with Abex. But in our second
18 line, we wanted to keep asbestos.'
.'
19 Q. What do you mean your "second line"?
20 A. Well, you had three grades. You had the
.
21 professional quality, you had what we call itopperj
22 okay. It depends on what time frame you're talking
23 ' about. NVe Initially had two grades, then we had three
24 grades.
.'
25 Q. Okay.
.
' .'
1 we're going to be out of the sale of asbestos-containing
2 brake products?' .
3 A. We were concerned on the ban of asbestos, so
4 we were pushing for that date that was set by the EPA
5 to ban asbestos, to be.prepared to offer a non-asbestos
6 product across the line.
'
7 Q. $o when did you first implement that plan to
8 be prepared for the ban on asbestos? .
.
.
9 A, 1 can't recall the exact date/but it would
10 have been during this time frame of the mid- to late
11 '80s.
12 (Plaintiffs' Exhibits LeCour 19-21 were marked.)
13 Q. (By Mr. Durnler) Let me see if you can
14 identify 19.
/
..
15 A. 19 is a memorandum, Bcndix Allied-Signal,
16 Btndix Friction Material Division, February the 1 Sth,
17 1991, Sharon Parvana, P-A-R-V-A-N-A, Parvana, (rom
18 Jim McCool. 19 Q. And 20, that's also connected? Am I correct
' .
20' that these art simply more purchases from Bcndix?
21 A. Let me read and see.
22 Q. All right. Take your lime.
'
23 A. Item 19, yes, 1 agree that it looks like
24 purchasing uT the product.
'25 Q. Okay. Is that a situation which Bcndix had
..
...
. ' ''
WHEELER REPORTING-COMPANY, rNC., 404051-^577
33 (Pages 126 io 129) ..
Hicks, et al. y. ACandS, Inc., et al.
'
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
'
Page 130
.'
Page 132
1 extra or surplus product and was selling it to Rayloc?
.1 A. No, 1 Jo not think so. 1 do not recall.
2 A. That's what it implies.
' 2
Q. There's a statement in there --1 don't have
3 Q. All right. Now lit me show yo.u what's been
3 the document in front of me - about the availability
-
4 marked as Exhibit No. 21 and ask you iTyou can identify
4 of asbestos-free brake products for more than a decade.
. 5 . that documentor me?
. .
5 Do you see that?
6 A. Bendix/Allied-Signal, Bendix Friction Material 7 Division, January 31st, 1992, Mr. Cary Winseu, Rayloc
6 7
A. Let's see. Yes, 1 do. Q. Do you agree with that statement?
.
8 Division, Stephenville, Texas.
'8
A. No.
.
9 Q. Who's Mr. Winseu?
9 Q. What part of it don't you agree with, that . .
10 A. He's a purchasing agent in Stephenville.
' i.o they were available or that they were effective?
II Q. And is this notification to you about Bendix
If A. Well, It was available, bur they were not
.
12 gening out of the sale of asbestos-containing brake
13 products?
14 . A. Yes.
'
'
12 effective in all applications.
..
13 And also, 1 guess a play on words here, they
14 have semi-metallic disc pucks which were non-asbestos.
15 Q. How long prior to 1992 were you aware that
15 but you didn't fit them on all applications either.
.
16 Bendix was going to be gening out of the sale of
16 But what they were offering during that period
17 asbestos-containing products?
r
17 of time was nnt acceptable from a Safety point of view.
18 A.. I cannot recall that.
18 It had to be -- su it wasn't a ten-year period that they
19
Q. Did at some point in time Bendix stop selling
-
19 all worked. '
'
'.
20 you asbestos-containing brake products?
20 (Interruption.)
.
21 A. They did stop; and then they started up again.
21 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'm going to give you what's
22 Q. When did they stop, and when did they start up
. 22 been marked as Exhibit No. 23. which was produced to me
23 again? 24 A. I don't recall those dates.
23 yesterday, and ask you if you can tell me what that
24 document is?
.
25 Q. When they stopped, did Rayloc, Genuine Parts,
25 A. Asbestos-Free Bonded Segments. It's
' ' . Page 131
''
'
'.
. P>ge 133
1 find another supplier to take their place? -
2 A. No.
_'
3 Q. All right. Who did Rayloc begin to purchase 4 from once Bendix stopped selling asbestos-containing
5. products to you?
'.
,.
'
6 A. Oh, on this particular line, they could have
7 bought from several suppliers.
8 , -Q. When Abex and Bendix stopped selling
'
9 asbestos-containing products, was there any conscious
10 decision made as to whether or not Genuine Pans should
.11 also stop or phase out asbestos products? -
'
12 A. No.
.
13- Q. Do you understand my question? In other
14 words, did anyone sit down and say, they're not selling
15 it anymore, maybe we shouldn't be selling it either?
16 A. No, that never...
.
17 (Plaintiffs' Exhibits LeCour 22 and 23
'
18 were marked.)
19 Q. (By Mr. Dumler)' I give you Exhibits No. 22
20 and 23.
-
21 Let me ask you; Is 22 an advertisement from
22 Abex? Do you recognize that document?
23- A. It says, Wall Street Journal, Wednesday.
24 July 19th, 1989.
,.
25 Q. Does this come from your personal file?
. 1 a statement that says, 'IDuring World War II Cermany was
2 cut off from the major sources of asbestos" --
3 Q. Rather than reading it, are you familiar with
4 this document?
..
5 A, Yes.
.
6 Q. What is it?
.
7 A. It's a document created by Abex. And this was
8 their first shot at u's to offer us NA-27. They claimed
9 they had this back, and it was the original equipment
10 formula on Volkswagen. '
11 Q. What do you mean offer you NA-27? As an
12 asbestos alternative?
13 A,. As an asbestos alternative, yes. 14 Q. When did you receive this document. Exhibit
15 No. 237 '
''
16 A. 1 don't know if 1 ever received this 17 particular document here (indicating). There's no date 18 on it. But I had conversations with them on the
19 subject.
20 Q. Starting when? .
21 A. Mid-'SO*. 22 Q. Okay.
-
.
23
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 24 was marked.) '
,
24 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) 1 give you Exhibit No. 24
25 and ask you if you can tell me whai that document is?
;
. .
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404.3.51-4577
34 (Pages 130 to 133)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
''
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour'
.
Page 134
.
. Page 136
.1 A. This is a ISAPA Rayloe American Braktblok ad.
2 It's titled, "We want to stop you every time."
'
3 Q. Are you familiar with that ad campaign?
' 4 A. No, 1 am not familiar with the ad campaign.
' .5
Q. Do you know when this particular document was
. 6 produced? '
. .
7 ' A, No, 1 do not.
8 Q. Do you know who would know? 9 A. Lee me read it here first, and I'll see. .
10 Q. Sure. Take your time. 11 A. Again, that would be marketing and sales and 12 also, at that lime, people that were in sales at'Abes. I) That was a document that looked like it was put together
|0. by Abes.
'
15 Q. There's a reference in there to - 1 don't '
16 want to misquote it, so let me have the document back -
. 17 if 1 can. It says, "Asbestos free is a better brake."
.13 Are you familiar with that statement in that .
19 paragraph (indicating)?
.
20 A. Uh-huh. . 21 Q. Can you tell me at what point in time did that
22 statement become true? 23 A. Today it's not true.
. .
. "
24
Q. So from your perspective, as of now, the brake
.
25 systems are not as effective or good as the asbestos
'
1 '2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1990s, did Rayloe ever advise any of its manufacturers'
of friction products that it would only accept
non-asbestos products by a certain date? .
A. Repeat your question.
-
O. Sure. At.any time, did Rayloe ever advise any
of its suppliers of friction material that they would
only purchase non-asbesios producis by a certain date? '
A. Not to my knowledge, no.
Q. Am 1 correct that the only reason'that Rayloe
stopped selling asbestos-containing products was the ban
on asbestos?
'
A. We were preparing for that, that's correct.
Q. 1 understand that. But my question is: The only reason that you stopped selling asbestos-containing
products was that there was a ban placed or you believed there would be a ban placed on the sale of those
producis?
'
MR. RILEY: Now, he's not itstiTied to
that. .
.
'
Q. (By Mr. Duntler) Thai's my question.
.
.
A.. Repeat it again. .
.
-
Q. Sure. The only reason that Rayloe stopped
manufacturing asbestos-containing products is the
.
company believed that there would ultimately be a ban
placed on the manufacturer of those products?
'
Page. 135
.
.
"i Page 137,
1 brake systems that you produced back in the 70s?
2 A. I'm saying that they're not better than. They
3 can be equal to. But thaTs a bunch of hype and sales
4 pitch.
.
5 Q. At w.hat point in time, from your opinion, '
6 . did the asbestos-free brakes become equal to the - '
7 asbestos-containing brakes?
' -
8 A. It would have been -- to our satisfaction to
9 perform, it would have been in the '90s.
10 Q. Can you tell me what efforts Rayloe made to
11 investigate or engineer or assist in the development of
12 an asbestos-free brake prior to the 1990s?
.
13 A. We never did.anything to develop, to compound.
14 any type of formula.
-
15 The only thing we did was say, give us a piece
16 of friction material that works equally as well as what
17 we currently have and is as safe as what we have and
18 will stop that car under all conditions. '
'.
19 Q. Am I correct the answer is nothing?' .
20 A. Nothing.no.
.
21 MR. RJLEY: The answer is they don't make . .
22 friction products.
. . .
23 THE WITNESS: We don't make fricrion
24 products.
. . ''
25 Q. (By Mr. Duntler) At any time prior.to the
1 A. Yes.
"
2 Q. Now, whai number are we on?
.
3. (Plaintiffs' Exhibits LeCour 25 and 26
..
. 4 .' were marked.)
.
5 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'm going lo give you what's .
6 been marked as Exhibit 25 and 26, which appear to be the
7 same document but addressed to different people. .
'.
8 Do you see that document?
'
9 A. Yes.
;
10 Q. Are you familiar with those documents, 25
[
11 and 26?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All right. And you are the author of that '
.
14 document?
'
15 A. Yes. .
. .
16 Q. Okay. One says, "from: Engineering" and the
17 other says, "From: Paul LeCour." But both are from
.
18 you, I take it?
19 A. Yes.
_
20 ' Q. And this document is your notification to
21 everyone internally at Rayloe that you've got to start
22 putting markings on your packages that your product
23 contains asbestos?
24 A. Yes. 25 . Q. All right. Now I'm going 10 lake one of them
.:
'
35 (Pages 13410 137)
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC,, 404-351-4577 -
'
..
Hicks, ei al. v. ACandS, Inc., et-al..
.
. 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
.
Page 138
..
Page 140
1 back from you since they both - the first sentence
1 that you used?
.
2 sayi, "Well, the,time has come that we must Stan '
2
A. No. .
''
3 identifying all products that contain asbestos fibers." .
3 ' Q.' 'All right. So there's an earlier version
4 What was the reason that the time had come?
4 of this somewhere, an earlier warning version?
5 What was prompting this?
''
5
. MR. RILEY: No, that's not what he said.
6 A. It was California. 1 think it was
6 He means there was a stamp as opposed to the
7 Proposition 65, where if you want to sell any product
7 printed form.'
''
'
.
8 in that state, you had to identify the product if it .
8 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) This is a printed box;
9 contained asbestos.
9 ' and first you had a stamp?
10 So there was discussion, were we willing to
10 A. We stamped the warning on when we first
1! only do it for California or were we going to do it for
.11 started.
'
12 the whole United Stales. And it was a.toss-up because '
12
(Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 28 was marked.)
13 of just internal processing and In doing that.
-
14 Well, the decision came down, we're not going
13 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I've marked this as 28. 14 Co through there and see if you can see if any of the
13 to have two separate inventories, and we're not going to
15 stamps are there.
' ..
1$ slow down, so we'll just stan marking it for everybody. 16 A. They're oot in here.-.
'
17 So that's why I use the phrase, well, it's come the
17
Q. They're not in there. All right. Where do'
. 18 time, because it was a debate on does every customer
18 those warnings fit in the warning history? They're
19 get it or only California customers. - .
19 after Exhibit 27?
20 Q.' How long prior to September of 1988 had there
20 A. Let me see Exhibit 27. As far as the warnings
21 .been any consideration about whether or not you were
21 on these?
22 going to be forced to put waming'labels or
'
.22 Q. Con-cct.
23 notifications on your packages?
'
23 A. They came after.
'
24 . MR. RILEY: Object to the form of the
. 24
MR. RILEY: So for the record, 28 came
25 question.
.
25 after 27?
:
.-
Page 139
' .
Page 141
1 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) You can answer.
.
2 A. Only in this issue of California did that .
. 3 discussion come up.
-
4 Q. What are you referring to when you say, "Well,
5 the time has come1'?' Had there been discussions before
. 6. this about whether or not one day you're going to have
7 to label your products?
..
'
( .8 . A. No. As I said earlier, that statement was
9 referring to were you going to put it on all products
10 going to all customers or only tbose going specifically
11 to California.
_
.
12 - Q. It's correct, is it not, that the only reason
13 that Rayloc put a warning on its packages is because it
14 was mandated by the state orCalifomia -
.
.
15 A. Yes.
"
.
16 Q. - and that absent legislation. Rayloc would
17 have not placed any warning on its products?
IS A. Yes.
19 '
(Plaintiffs' Eshibit LeCour 27 was marked.)
20 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) All right. Let me give you
21 what's been marked as Eshibit 27. And I'll ask: Does
22 this show the warning that was placed on the product
23 in 1988?
'
24 A. Y es.
'
.
25 Q. All right. Is this the first type of warning
i THE WITNESS: Yes.
.
. 2 MR. DUMLER: Thank you. .
;
3- Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Did you have any involvement .
4 in the design of the labeling or warning that appears
:
5 on Exhibit 27?
.
!
6 A. No, 1 did not.
.
7
Q. Who was responsible Tor that?
'
8 A. Joe White. .
9 Q. Wbat was bis position? Why was he responsible
10 for the labeling?
'-
-
II A. He was president and general manager of the
12 . division.
13 Q. Did you have any involvement in the labeling 14 on 28. Exhibit 2S?
.
15 A. No, 1 did not.
16 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 29 was marked.)
17 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Let me show you what's been.
18 marked as Exhibit 29 and ask you how does this document
19 fit into the warning history, if at all?
20 A. In referring to what?
''
21
Q. Is this a Rayloc product?
22 A. No, it is not.
23 Q. Okay. This document was produced to me
'
24 yesterday. Do you know why this document is contained '
25 in the documents that Genuine Parts has?
.
' . . . .. . . . 36 (Pages 138 to NT)
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-351-4577 \
'
Hicks, et at. v. ACandS,' Inc., et al.
...
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
'
Page 142
.'
Page 144
1 ' A. In referring to Document 28, the verbiage that .
1
Were you notified of that at the time?
'
. 2 waj being used here *u taken off of this (indicating), '
2
A. I knew we took corrective action in those .
3 became BPI owned Raybestos Manhattan.
3 departments.
4 And jo BPI sold - BPI makes the friction
4 Q. The bum room, what is the - the bum room '
5 material. They sell to Rayloc, and they sell to
5 is when the old lining is taken off?
6 Raybestos Manhattan, who they own.
' -6 A. Uh-huli.
..
7 Q. Just so I'm clear, you went out and duplicated '
' 7 Q. Is.that segregated away from the other .
8 or used theirs as a guide? -
.
. 8 operations? -
.
9 A. 1 would say as a guide, because I don't think
9 A'. Uh-hult.
.
10 it's verbatim on everything.
10
MR. RILEY; Use a word.
II Q. And who's responsible for the decision of
' II ' Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Is that a "yes"?
. 12 what to include and what not to include?
' 1.2 A. Yes.
13 A. That would have been the product manager at
13 Q. So the bum room is segregated away from the
l< Rayloc and the safes manager, marketing - safes and
14 other operations in the plant?
IS marketing manager, and our president of our division.
15 A. Yes.
. 16 And I'm sure it went to headquarters. 17 ' ' (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 30 was marked.)
.16 Q. And the bum room is where the old lining is
17 . taken off of the core?
18 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'm going to give you what's
. .18 . A. Yes.
'
19 marked as Exhibit 30 and ask you if you can identity .
19 Q. Is that particular area - is that a dusty.
20 this document from Century Insurance? .
.' 20 operation?
..
.
21 A. Century Insurance, October 26th, 1971. It's
21 A. Is it?
22 to Mr. David Childress, who was the gcncryl manager of
22
Q. Yes..
.
23 the Memphis plant at that time.
.
23 A. At what time?
24 Q. This is in connection with your insurance
24 ' Q. In 1989, when they were doing the air sampling '
23 company's efforts to regulate what's happening at the
25 by Travelers.
.
..
Page 143
'
'
Page 145
1 plant or investigate what's happening at the plant?
2 A. This would indicate their involvement.
3 Q. Was air sampling done each year at the plant?
4 . A. Yes.
..
5 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 31 was marked.)
6 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) The next document I'm going
7 to give you is 31, which is a Travelers Engineering
8 Report dated February 28, 1989. Are you familiar with
9 this document? .
'
10 A. No, I'm not.
.
11 Q. Are you famiiiqr with Travelers performing .
12 air sampling at the Rayloc plant?
.
13 A. I'm familiar with them being there and
14 performing tfie tests, yes.
15 Q. Were you involved ar all in their notification
16 that in certain areas, the samples were above
,17 recommended levels?
.
18 A. Was I notified officially by Travelers?
1? Q. Were you notified by anybody, officially or
20 unofficially?
'
21 A. No.
'
'
..
22 Q. The report indicates that the eight-hour '
23 . TWa exposure to asbestos fibers for the clutch disc
24 drilling, the bum room, and the disc brake riveting
25 operators exceeded the permissible-exposure level.
1 A. To answer that, it was a dusty application 2 that had vacuum equipment in placet but we added
'' .
3 additional procedure to get back within compliance. ' 4 Q. So after this air sample was taken in 1989,. .
'
5 there were additional procedures put in place to reduce
6 the level of asbestos exposure?
7 A. Yes.
.
8 Q. And the exposure or the asbestos that was
'
9 monitored there would have been the material that
10 existed after the brake came back, afhsr it had already '
II been used essentially, correct?
'
12 A. Well, actually, no. Tlte dust would have '
13 been.created after it had gone through 800 degrees
.:
14 . Fahrenheit -- excuse me -- 1800 degrees Fahrenheit for
15 five minutes, which takes and extracts all the res --
16 not all of it, but burns out some of the resins that . 17 hold the fibers together. So that's where it created
.
18 the dust.
..
19 When it came baek to us from the jobber and on
20 our receiving belt, where wc also monitored, no problem.
21 because it was still in solid form and had grease on it,
22 had brake fluid on it. So had no problem there..It's
23 after one of our procedures.
24. Q, Okay. The asbestos that's being produced and
25 exceeding permissible levels is coming.from the lining
'
. '.
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, rNC.,-40^-351-4577
3,7 (Pages 142 to 145)
' .
Hicks, el al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
. 6/1/01 Paul L. LeCour
.. `
Page 146
.
Page l.4g
l' after it's being taken off the vehicle and been used? '
2 A. No.
..
3 MR. RILEY: He answered that. He gave you
4 the answer.
5. Q. (By Mr. Dumler) f'm not talking about the
6 interim steps. I'm talking about -
.
7
MR. RILEY: He's telling you where the
'
8 . dust is created.
.
9 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Just so we're clear, the io asbestos content or the time period where the burn
' II occurs is after the product and the core is coming back
12 after being used, correct?
13 A. Yes.
.
.
14 Q. Then it goes through whatever machinations it
15 goes through and is put into the burner room, correct? . 16 A. No. It's in tbe burner room already.
17 Q. Okay. . .
18 . MR. RILEY: All right. Describe for him,
19 when the truck backs up to Rayloc and the
20 barrels come off, how does it get from there
21 to the point where this measurement occurred?
22 THE WITNESS: All right, It is checked in
23 on a receiving belt. After the receiving belt, . .
24 it's put onto a cart. It is taken into the - .
25 storage area. Then the orders are pulled, as
1 this document lor me, if you can, Exhibit No. 32.
2 A. Okay. Thij is Travelers, Travelers Company,
3 May 30th, 1989, Mr. Art Catlin, who is general manager
4 ' of our Payson, Utah, facility.
'
S ' Q- This is a di/ferenr facility; is that correct?
.6 A. Yes, it is.
..
'
7 ,Q. Are you familiar with this report?
8 A. Not this particular report.
.
.
9 . Q. Was it ever brought to your attention that the
10 testing dune on that facility exceeded recommended
II levels ofasbesios exposure? , '
'.
12 A. No, not to my knowledge.
13 '
(Plainri/Ti* Exhibit LeCour 33 waj marked.)
14 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Next I'm going to hand you
.15 Exhibit No. 33 -it's a report done in 1991 by
'
16 Travelers - and ask you if you can identify that
17 document for me?
.
18 A. This is an engineering report. It says,
.
19 Cenuinc Parts Company, llayloc Division, Hancock,
20 Maryland, Industrial Hygiene Evaluation. It's prepared
21 by Travelers, or The Travelers. It is to a David W.
.
22 Classman, Control Engineering. It looked like they
23 performed if. Environmental Service Unit, they worked
24 for Travelers.
25 . Q. Did you receive notification of this report
'.
' Page 14?
.
..
' Page 149
'1
far as going now to the storage area and
.
2 saying, I need this barrel of brake shoes.
3 Those brake shoes are pulled.
'
4
They are brought to the bum area. They
'
5 are then processed in this burner with the
'
.6 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. ' '
' 7 And when they come out of the burner, then
8 . the friction material is removed off of the 9 " lining -- excuse me -- off of the table of the
'
10 brake shoe. That is where the problem was,
11 because the resins had been baked out of the
12 lining.
'
.
13 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) So after it went through the
14 baking process -
.
'
15- A. Burning.
'
..
16 Q. - burning process, there were still asbestos
17 fibers left that were exceeding permissible levels;
18 is that correct?
'
'
19 MR. RILEY: Object to the form of the
20 question. After the resins were baked out.
21 that's why there were fibers.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
'.
'
23
MR. DUMLER: Okay.
.
24 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 32 was marked.)
25 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Let me have you identify
1 when it occui+ed? .
2 A. No, 1 did not.
.;
3.' Q. The report indicates that the exposure to
4 asbestos fibers for the chopper operator exceeded
''
5 50 percent of the action level. What exactly is the
6 chopper operator doing?
7 A. That is to remove riveted brake lining from
8 the brake shoe, which would be similar to (he one 1 just
9 told you about on the debonding of.
.
10 Q. How is the chopper's position different than
11 the burner?'
. ~-
12 A. It's located basically in the same area, but
13 it's a different procedure done to a riveted shoe than
14 it was done to the bonded shoe to remove the friction
15 material.
'
16 Q- So explain to me what the chopper does as
17 opposed io live burner.
' ..
IS A. Okay. The burner basically burns the linings.
19 Everything goes through there to remove the grease,
20 okay. 21 ' Then when the shoe comes oft, if it's bonded,
22 then it removes. You pick it up, and you separate the
23 two, the shoe and the table.' 24 The riveltd has <o go over io the chopping
25\ area. And it actually is a hlade lhat goes in and
' 3$ (Pages 146 io 149) . WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. INC.;;404-3S|.4577 '
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS,'Inc., et al.
. 6/1/01 Paul L. LeCour
Page 150
.
Page 132
1 shears off the lining.
. 1 ihe levels changed dramatically over ihe
2 Q. Those brake shoes that go to the chopper do
2 20 years.
.
3 not go to the burner? 4 . A. Do not go to the burner.
, .. .
3 Q. (8y Mr. Dumler) You can answer. 4 MR RJLEY: 1 object lo the form of the
. ,
5 Q. So the chopper, again, is after the brake shoe
3 . question. You can rephrase the question.
.
6 . has been used and is coming back to the plant /or
6 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Well, I'm going 10 lei my
T . remanufacturing?
'
7 question stand. Ifyou can answer it, you can answer
.
8 A. Yes.
. . 8 il.
`.
9 Q. Why would the asbestos levels be in excess of
9 A. We made change;. Ilut where we made Ihe
' 10 recommended amounts in the chopper area? 11 A,' Because the way in which the lining is
. 10 changes was oi on *lc output, It was on the input. So 11 it was basically the beginning uf the process. It had
.
12 removed; It breaks It up, chops It up. Again, t made
. .12 nothing to do*-- where wc made changes had nothing to do
13 improvements in that area. Wc had vacuuming units there
13 with the end product being boxed going back out to the
M .to begin with.
'
13 To correct both areas, we started wetting them
14 customer. Where >rc made rhe changes was at the. IS beginning of removing of the product or removing of
16 down, and that solved the problem, because the way in 17 which'the. lining was coming off of the shoe, removing
. 16 Ihe friction material.
17 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit LeCour 34 was marked.)
18 it, you wore actually fracturing it.
.
' 18
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'll give you whet's been
(9 Q. So this is a process. When you say you made
19 marked as Exhibit 34 and ask you if you can identify .
20 improvements, this is a process that started with
20. that for me?
`
21 feedback from your insurance company as early as 1971 .
21 A. It's an Engineering Report --
'
..
22 and was continuing on through 199 T? .
22 MR. RILEY: Wait a minute.
23 A. Yes.
,
2< Q. And each year or each report, there would be
.
23 A. (Continued) -- Ccnuine Parts Company, Rayloc 24 Division, Hancock, Maryland, January 21st, 1992, -
23 some changes or elTorts made to address problems ihat
23 prepared by Travelers and David NV. Classman, who was
' Page .131
Page 153
I came up -
2 MR. RJLEY: Maybe.
3 Q. (By'Mr. Dumler) - if there was a problem
4 that came up.
.
.1
5
To the extent that there was a problem in
..
6 these documents, we at Rayloc, you at Rayloc, made
7 some efforts to change the procedures that you were
8 using?
.
9 ' " A. Absolutely, yes.
10 Q. Okay. So by 1991, you had 20 years of having
11 your insurance company provide you feedback and make
12 changes to various products, but still there were levels -
13 in excess of recommended amounts; is that correct?
14 MR. RJLEY: Objection to the form of ihe
IJ question. You said "products" instead'of
16 "processes."
17 Can you read.il back for him so he could
IS hear it?
'
19 MR. DUMLER: I'll rephrase it.
'
20 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Are you saying that 20 years ,
21 after your first insurance company sent air sampling,
22 it was still necessary for you to make changes in your
23 processes to ensure that there were not exposures to
24 asbestos in excess of recommended levels?
23
MR. RILEY: I'll object to (hat. because
l with the Environmental Service Unit,
..
2 Q. Are you familiar with that document?
3 A. No, I'm not.
'_
4' Q. You did noi receive a copy ofthat document
3 when il came?
''
6 A. iN'o, 1 did not.
''
7 Q. Did anyone advise you of the results of that
8. study?'
''
'
9 A. No, they did not.
.
10 Q. Do you have an understanding of why a variety
11 ofstudies done by Travelers at your manufacturing
12 operation showed impermissible levels of exposure to '
13 asbestos?
-
14 A. Mo, I do not. .
.
13 Q. Do you have any idea as to whether or not it
16 was the particular equipment that was being used, as
17 opposed to other problems? Do you have any reason or
18 understanding of why, over time, various air sampling
19 came back showing that there was an impermissible
20 exposure level?
'
21 A. Hthe laws changed, that could be one
22 incident, where prior to the change ill law, what we had
23 in place was sufficient. In other cases, il was the '
24 equipment itself.
'
23 Q. At any time during your employment at Genuine
.' ; .
'
',
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, RSC.. 404-3'5 l'.4577
39 (Pages 150 to 153) . .' '
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
. 6/1/01 Paul L. LeCour
' Page 154
' Page 156
1 -Pans, have you gone out to lhe field to see whether or.
2 not mechanics were in fact grinding your brake shoes?
3 A. Oh, yes.
..
4 .Q. When have you done that?
5 A. 1 did that from 1971 through '75. And 1 did
6 it periodically, not specifically just to go see if
.
7 they're grinding or not, but going in and calling on
8 garages that do brake workup, until this year.
9
Q. From 1971 through 1975, what were you doing
10 that required you to see whether or not your products .
II ' were being ground?
'
12 A. I .was conducting the brake clinics and the
.13 dutch clinics and the electrical clinics. And 1 was.
. 14 also selling the product to our jobber customers.
15 .
We would go along with the jobber salesman and '
16 tell him why should you buy Rayloc and not Raybestos.
17 Q. I've seen the documents of a slide
'
'
18 presentation. Were you involved in that slide .
-
19 presentation?
'
20 A. Well, there were several series of that.
21 But, yes, 1 had a slide presentation that I used.
..
22 Q. When did you prepare those slide .
23 presentations?
-.
24 . A. That was given to me when 1 came to work for
.25 the company.
'.
i My question is: Was one of your angles, in an
2 efTort io sell Rayloc, that you told garage mechanics
3 that you do not have to grind our shoes?.
'
4 A. Yes.
.
5 Q. At any time, did you tell them any of the
6 . dangers associated with actually grinding shoes related.
7 to creating asbestos dust -
.
8 A. No..' 9 Q. ~ now, other than 1971 to '74,1 think you 10 said?
11 A'. 71 to 75.
'
'
12 Q. 75, what else were you doing to actually go
13 to particular garages? Just go on sales calls?
14 MR. RILEY: Time period?
15 MR: SMITH: When? .
.
16 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) After 1975? '
17 A. No.
.
IS MR. RILEY: No. He said 71 to 75.
19 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) No. 1 said other than 71 .
20 to 75. After 75; what else were you doing to go visit
21 specific mechanics?
'
22 A.' 1 wonlil be going for problem calls where they 23 were having o problem with our product, not just
24 specific brake product, but any product. We had
25 19 product lines. '
'
. . Page I5J
Page 157 ,
1 Q. So you would go out to various garages and
2 give them presentations about how or why they should use
3 your particular products?
..
4 A. Yes..
3 Q. During the course of any of those
6 presentations, did you warn any or advise any mechanics
7 about the dangers associated with asbestos dust from -
8 grinding?
9 " A. No, 1 did not.
10 Q. In any of those slide presentations, was there
II ever any indication or warning about the dangers
12 . associated with creating asbestos dust?
.
13 A, No, fhcre was not.
'
.
14 Q. In connection with selling Raybestos products.
15 one of your angles was that you did not have to grind
16 your brake shoes or pads; is that correct?
-
17 . A. No. Yuu said Raybestos,
18 Q. I'm sorry. Rayloc.
19 A. And 1 would inject (his: that that is (he 20 main problem but there, a lot of people -- Raybesios ioj
21 king in scllii)'* brake shoes. And a lot of people .
22 thought we, Ituyloc, were Raybestos. So when you ask
23' them, whose brakes did you use. wc used the Rayloc; but
24 actually it was Raybestos.
25 Q. Thank you.
'. `
. 1 Q. How ofien would you do that?
.
2 A. Maybe a dozen times a year.
3 . . Q. In those instances in which you attempted to '
4 distinguish your product from other products that needed
5 to be ground, who were the competitors that you singled'
6 out as companies producing products that you had to
7 grind?
..
8 A. We always used the practice that you never ...
9 knock vour competition.'So we never talked about our
10 competition, we only talked about the benefits of our
II products.
'
. '
12 Q. One of the benefits, you testified, was that
13 you didn't have to grind your product?
14 A. That's correct.
.
15 Q. What would you do in comparing your product to
16 other products? Would you say the other products you
17 have to grind?
,
.
18 . A. Nti. We would just say that you don't have to
19 do anything to modify our sho5 to install them.
20 Q. Did you ever visit Mr. Novo's $a$ stations in
.
21 New Jersey?
'
22 - 23
A. No, 1 did not. Q. Did you ever visit any of the jobbers in
`
24 New Jersey?
.'
25 A. 1 cannm recall.
.
40 (Pages 154 to 157)
WHEELER REPORTING'COMPANY.'-INC.,'404.'351-4577
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
6/1/01 - Paul ,L. LeCour
.
Page 158
'.
.
Page 160
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II 12 13 M 13 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q. Have you visited the South Plain/ield
1
A. 1 don't know wticn marketing conferences
Distribution Center?
. 2 started. It had to be prior to 1971 when 1 started with
A. I cannot recall.
3 the company, because 1 heard, you know, they had other
Q. Are you aware of any documents related to the
4 ones.
''
sales from the South Plainfield Distribution Center to
. 5 Q. All right. So from '71 through the '80s,
any of the jobbers in that area?
6 there was an annua) NaPA marketing convention?
A. No, I'm not.
7 A. Yes.
''
Q. Have you made any efforts to look for any?
8 Q. How many days did they span?
A.. No, 1 have not.
.
Q. Do you know where they would be located if
9 A. Annually ihue's one day.
*
. id p.' Were there presentations, or is it like
they did exist? .
11 a lair, where you go and there are booths? .
.'
A. Well, if they exist, they would be at the
. 12 A. AH the above. It was -- wc had display '
distribution center. What time frame are you talking
13 tables Tor the manufacturers. And then, of course.
about?
' . 14 they hod presentations that were pul on by NAPA.
Q. I960 through 1980.
15 Q. At any of these national marketing
'
A. Willi our retention policy, 1 don't think that
16 conventions, was there any presentation or discussion
you will find anything going back to that time period.
17 aimed at alerting any of the jobbers to the dangers of
Q. At what point -- .
18 asbestos?
-.
MR. RILEY: For the record, while he did
19 ' A. No, (here was not.
'
not, a search was made; and there were no .
20
Q. At any of the national marketing conventions,
. records. .
'.
, 21 was there any presentation or any elTon to alen
.
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Ar what point in lime did the
22 jobbers that there should not - that mechanics should
distribution centers begin to computerize their sales to
23 not be grinding brake shoes or brake pads? .
local jobbers?. .
.
24 A For what reason?
A. I can't recall the exact -- well, actually,
25
Q. At all. Was there any effort to say -
'
' .
' Page 159
Page 161
1 TEM5 was the system. And that had to be in the '80s.
1 A. Well, our sales materials said it is not
2 MR. DUMLER: AU right. Let's lake
2 necessary 10 grind our product, just go ahead and
3 4
a two-minute break so 1 can look at my notes here.
- 3 install it, and you can ct more cars into your garage . ' 4 a day and make more money. Thai was from a performance '
3 (Recess was taken.)
5 reason only. H had nothing to do with any other
6 Q. .(By Mr. Dumler) Mr. LeCour, am 1 correct that
6 reason.
'
7 Genuine Pans - strike that - that NAPA held annual or
' 7 Q. There was never any indication that there
8 national meetings, convention-type meetings? I'm not
8 might be a safety reason not 10 grind the shoes or pads?
9 correct in the way you're looking at me?
9 A. Safely. If they were ground and you ground
10 A. Yes. II Q. ) am correct? <
... .
10 them incorrectly, you could create a locked-up wheel, 11 creating a safety haiard by causing the ear to go out
.'
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Whai was the purpose of those? Were they '
. 14 . conventions'.1 Whai were they?
.
12 .of control. "
.
13
So that would have been part oT the isjue.
'
' >4
Q. Was there a publication that was sent to NAPA
15 A. They were called marketing conferences. And
IS jobbers by NaPA?
'. .
16 they were tu display what's coming up for the'next year, 17 what our mullo was going to be, and any new products
16 17
A. Many publications. What are you referring to? Q. Well, how many publications are there?
IS available. And it was, you know, a get-together with
.18 There's something called NAPA Outlook? ,
.
19 our customers, the NAPA.jobbers.
.
19 A. NAPA Outlook is not that old.
'
20 Q. And were they in faci held annually?
20 Q. When was that started?
21 A. Annually.
2t A. t can't recall, but it was not in the '70s,
22 Q. How many days? Was it a multi-day event?
22 . to my recollection.
':
23 MR. RILEY: Can we put a time home on it 24 . as to when they started?
23 Q. Well, maybe l ean help you. 24 MR. RILEY: Okay. He's not being olTered
.
25 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) When did they start?
25 as 9 witness on behalf ul'NAPA.' '
..
*
.!
.
-41 (Pages 15S to 161)
"WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, ns'C.. .404-3.'1-4577 , .
.'
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
' 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour
Page 162
. .
Page 164
1 MR. DUMLER: 1 understand.
1 to their customers. And basically it was a joke book.
2 ` (PlaimifTs' Exhibit LeCour 35 was marked.)
2 There were jokes in it. It had some advertising in it.
3 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) I'm going to show you
3 Q. Anything else?' Any other publications that
4 a document. Exhibit No. 35. It indicates NAPA through ' 4 were done by Genuine Pans disseminated to the jobbers
. 5 1975. Have you ever seen this document before?
5 or others customers?
6 A. No.
.
6 A. Not to my knuwledge.
' 7 Q. Okay. This document refers to a.publication
7 Q. Mr. LeCour, in your Genuine Parts Answers io
8 called NAPA Outlook. Your recollection is you don't
8 Interrogatories, No. 167, it indicates that "Genuine
.9 have any recollection of seeing that document back in
9 Parts may have received warnings from various suppliers
10 '75, NAPA Outlook? 11 A. No.
.
10 or vendors of friction product materials but cannot II' state the approximate dale or contem of the warnings."
. 12
Q. Do you have any recollection of whether or not
. 12
' Do you ha ve any knowledge of any or the
.
13 any of the hazards of asbestos were ever published in - 13 warnings that Genuine Pans got from any supplier or
14 any of the NAPA Outlook?
l'4 vendor of friction products?- ,
15 A. When'l was aware of it, no.
' 15 - A. No, I'm not aware of any. .-
.
16 ' 17' 18
Q. What other publications do you get from NAPA?
' MR. RJLEY: Does he get from NAPA?
Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Well, what other NAPA
.16 17 ' 18
Q. You indicated earlier that there were three ' -
grades: professional, standard, and economy. Is that
generally correct? .
19 publications are you aware of?
-
20 A. That's it. That's the only thing that 1 know
19 20
A. Yes.
Q. Was that the three grades that were available
'
21 of.
21 between I960 and I9S0?
.
22 Q. Are you familiar with something called the
23 NAPA Report?
'
.
.
24 A. No.
.
22 A. No.
.' ' '
23 Q, Whai wj> available between '60 and '80?
24 A. We had basically two. We had what we called
25
Q. Does Genuine Parts publish any newsletters or
25 our B and RS with basically no name. Then we had our
, Page 163
Page 165 -
1 brochures or flyers or anything else that go out to its
1 AB, called Stopper.
.'
.
2 customers?
-
2 Then during that time frame, we called it
,
3 A. What time period? '
3' professional quality for the B and the RS. And Stopper.
' 4 Q. Well, does it tlo it today?
4 was alwaj's AB.
.
.
5 A. Well, in an official magazine format or paper, 5 Q. What does the A and the B stand for in AB?
6 book format? They send out.promotional-materials all
6 A. AB is American Brakeblok.
7 the time. '
. ''
7 Q. Between 1960 and 1980, were all of the AB
8 -'Q. -But it doesn't have a newsletter or anything
8 brake shoes asbestos-containing?
9- like that it sends out to its customers? ..
9 A. Yes.'
10 A. To my knowledge, no.
10 Q. What does the B stand for?
11 Q. Has it ever - bferweeri '60 and 'SO - between
11 A. Just the B only?
12 `60 and today, is there a newsletter?
' >7: Q. Correct.
13 MR. RJLEY: VVell, 17) allow him to answer
13 A. Bonded.
14 the question, but I'm going to object that this
14 Q. Between I960 and I9S0, were all the bonded
.
15 is beyond the scope of your list on your
15 brake shoes asbestos-containing?
.'
16 ' Deposition Notice. So he can answer as to his
16 A. Yus. Well-
17 personal knowledge, but his answer is noi as
17
Q. Go ahead.
' -'
IS a person who's knowledgable of the company.
IS A.. Yuur question, all uT the B's?
19 THE WITNESS: Parts Pick-Up.
.
19 Q. Yes.
20 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Cm sorry?
20 A. Yes.
.
21- A. Parts Pick-Up.
21 Q. Is there a distinction? Is there some
22 Q. What's the Parts Pick-Up?
22 B out there I'm not thinking about?
-
.
23 A. That was a little magazine that paid tribute
23 A. Well, there was an M.
24 to a good dealer, jobber, operation. And this was
24 Q. Okay.
''
25 offered to all jobbers, that they could in turn give it 25
A. And that was metallic.
''
42 (Pages 162 to 165)
' WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, IMC., 40^-35 1-4577 . . '
. '.
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
"
'
6/1/01.* Paul L. LeCour
' ' . Page 166
' Page 168
1 Q. All Hghi. Were all of the B's brake shoes?
2 A. Yes.
.
3 Q. Can a B also be a brake pad, disc brake pad?
4 A.- No.
'
5 Q. What does RS stand for?
6 Al Riveted.
'
7 Q. Were all of the RS brake shoes?
8 A. Yes.
.
9 Q. Were all or the RS between I960 and 1980 . .
10 asbestos-containing?
.
11' A. Yes.
12 Q. And the M, metallic, no asbestos?
13 A. Correct. Yes. . 14 Q, When wu the M introduced?
'
15 . A. The M was there when { started with the
16 company in'71. It was a limited part numbers. It was
17 . primarily used for race cars, emergency vehicles. It
18 had Its own set of circumstances, as far as its
19 performance. The normal person would not want to put
20 it on their car.
. ',
21 Q. The disc brake pads, what do they correspond .
22 to? 23 A. S would be either an asbestos or an NAO,
. .
24 non-asbestos. We have to go with the time frame.
25. Q. When was S introduced?.
'
.
I A. That corresponds (0 asbestos.
2 Q. Was that true 1960 to 1980, all AS were
3 asbestos-containing?
'
4 A. Yes.
5 ' Q. What do (he A and the S stand for?
6 A. 1 don't know. , .
7 Q. Okay. What other disc brake pads are there?
8 A. MaS*
9 Q. And what docs that signify?
.10 ' A. Semi.metallic.
.
II Q. When were they introduced?
12 A. Again, in (he '70s.
13 Q. What docs the E docs that have any -
14 what does that correspond to?
'
'15 ' A. E?
.
..
16 .Q. Yes. .
.
17 . A. We're not there yet..
'
18 Q. Okay.
''
19 A. We have ES.
20 Q. ES. Okay?
'.
21 - A. Okay. ES is asbestos.
-
.
22 Q. And that would be true between '60 and '80?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. What does the ES stand for?
.
25 A. Let me go back. VVe might not hove had ES back
'
Page 167
Page 169
1 2 3 .4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II 12 13 14 .15 16 17 18 19 20 , 21 22. 23 24 25
A. S was there when 1 started io '71.
Q. And so in 71, werc.they all '
asbestos-containing, S's?
'
' A. S's? Yes.
.
Q. At what point In time was there a non-asbestos
option on the S?
'
A. We'd go with MS, and it wasn't an option. If' .
OEM came out with a semi-metallic puck pad, we plugged
in MS. And you wouldn't have an 5, it would only be
available in MS.
1
'.
Q. So any time there's an S, that's an
asbestos-containing produevas opposed to an MS?
'
A. What time frame? .
'.
'
Q. I960 to 1980.
'
A. Yes.
. . .
Q. All right. And MS is what, semi-metallic? '
,.
' A. Yes. '.
.
Q. When was the semi-metallic fine introduced?
. A. In the '70s.
.
Q. Are there any other disc brake pads, other
than S and MS?
..
A. Yes.
'.
Q. What are they? '
.
A. There's ES - no - there's AS.
Q. What docs that correspond to?
.
1 in the '60s. But you gave me the time frame from the
2 '60s through '80s. But it's still in that area. It's
3' ES.
.
'
.
4 Q. When was the ES introduced?
5 A. That had to be in the '70s, late '70s.
6 Q. And what docs the ES stand for?
7. ' A. i don't know..
8 Then we had an MES that was semi-metallic
9 for that line.
.
'
10 Q. Okay. Any others that were out there?
11 A. Any others what? '
12 Q. Any other disc brake pads?
.
.
13 A. During what time frame? .
14 Q. .'60 to 'SO.
'.
15 A. No. .
'
16 Q. I'm a little confused. The A8,1 think you 17 .indicated, was American Brakeblok? '
.
IS A. Yes. ' . 19 . Q. Why is there a specific manufacturer
20 designation on one and not on the others? . 21 A. Well, because that was AB Stopper; and that's
22- why they called it Stopper. That was the flagship at 23 one time, hefore we came out with the B and the RS,
24 the premium. So it just stayed that way.
'
25 '. Q. Okay. Now. is ii possible to put these
.
.
. ' WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. INC/. 41J4-.361-4577
43 (Pages.166 to 169) '
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
' 6/1/01.-Paul L. LeCour
'
Page 170
'.
Page 172
1 ` letter] into the professional standard and economy
2 class?
...
..
3 * A. You mean as a chain?
4 Q. Yes. .
.-
.
5 - A. Yes, yes, there is.
.
6 Q. All right. What would,fall under the
.
7 professional designation?
,-
.8 ' A. Would be the MS and the S.
9 Q. Both semi:metallic.or just the MS? .
'
10 A. Wait a minute.
.
II Q. Is MS and S - MS is semi-metallic?
12 A. Yes.
.
13 Q. And the S is not? 14 A. That'j correct, yes.
IS MR. RILEY: Depending on the time period.
16 MR. DUMLER: Depending upon the time
17 frame.
..
. . ..
IS' Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Does the S ultimately become
19 semi-metallic?
' ,. ' '
20 A. No.
.'
21 Q. And what fits in the standard category? 22 A. That would be the AG. And that would be the
23 MAS and AS.
.
24 Q. What about the economy?
25 A. The economy? Actually, the economy was known
1 line?
,
2 A. Yes.
..
3 , Q. What about ihe ES during1960 lo 1980, was
4 American Brakeblok/Abex the exclusive supplier for that
5 line?
. ..
6 A- No.
`
7 Q. Who else? Was American Brakeblok/Abex the '
8 major supplier for the ES line?
'
9 MR. RILEY: If 1 can interrupt, you
10 previously testified and said "ES"?
11 MR. DUMLER: Yes.
.'
12 MR. RJLEY: ES started in the late'70s,
.
13 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) From the time it was 14 manufactured through 1980, the ES line was American
'
. 15 Brakeblok/Abex, the exclusive supplier for that line?
16 A. No.
17 Q, Was it the major supplier dr the predominant
18. supplier for that line, the ES line?
..
19. A.' No. .
'
'"
'
20 Q. Who supplied that line?
2.1 A. Allied-Signal, Hemisphere, FDP, Cann Parts,
22 Certified Urake, DiscTex. That's alt 1 can recall.
'23 Q. All right. What was the reason that you
24 turned to other suppliers for that particular line as '
25 opposed to the other line?
.
..
Page 171
1 as Stopper 2 before it became economy. It was under the
' 2 AB flag.
.
-
'
3 Q. 1 apologize if t asked you this, all right;
4 1 think 1 have: When was the professional, standard,
5 and economy designations first put out there?
-
6 A. That had to be in the late '70s, early '80s.
7 . Q. All right. Now, with respect to the AB, we
8 know that was American Brakeblok/Bendix - I'm sorry -
9 Abex, that was the main supplier or that?
10 MR. RILEY: Start over again, because you
II . sure messed it up. ' . '
12
MR. DUMLER: Sure.
13 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) The AB, American Brakeblok
14 Abex, were they the exclusive supplier for the AB line?
15 A., AB line and S line and MAS. '
-
16 Q. But there was no written agreement that made
17 them the exclusive supplier or any joint venture
18 agreement with respect to the production of those?
'
. 19 A No, '
. '
20 Q. All right. What about the B between I960 and '
21 1980, American Brakcblok/Abex? Were they the exclusive
22 supplier for that line?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. What about the AS between I960 and 1980? Was
25 American Brakcblolf/Abex the exclusive supplier for that '
' ' Page I7>
1 A. Economy.
2 Q. They were cheaper?
.
3 A. They were price competitive. .
.
4 Q. What about the AS line? Who was the supplier?
5 Was there an exclusive supplier for that line?
6 A. What line? . ' '
7 Q. AS.
'
8. A. AS? Yes.
-
9 Q. Who was that?
'
10 A. What time period?
...
11 Q. 1960 to 1980? .
'
12 A. Abex.
.
13 (Witness conferred with counsel.)
14 THE WITNESS: 1 want to make a statement.
15 Q. (By Mr. Dumler) Co ahead. You've conferred 16 with your conusd. and you need to make a statement?
17 X. Right.
18 Q. Co ahead.
,
19 A. When MS's first came out, Abex did not have
20 a good semi-inrtallic friction maierialfor the disc
21 pads. So w( used what was known as Friction King 2,
22 which was manufactured and made by Bendix initially. 23 And then when they did gd their formula correct, we '
24 switched over to Abex.
.
'
25 . Q. Thank you.
'
.'
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404-351-4577
44 (Pages 170 to 173)
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al. .
.
.
' 6/1/01.-Paul L. LeCour
.
Page 174
',
. Page 176
1 If! could lake you then to the professional,. .
1 Q. Who would the notification go to? <
2 standard, and economy lines, the Stopper 2, was Abex the ' 2
A. Central manager.
.'
3 exclusive manufacturer of the friction material in the
3 Q. To your knowledge, did the general managers
4 Stopper 2?
. . . .'
' ' 4 receive those notifications? '
.
5 A. No.
`
5 A. Yes.
..
6 . Q. Who else supplied? Was Abex the major or
6 Q. And to your knowledge, if corrective ,action
7 predominant supplier for the friction material in the
.7 ' was required, was it taken?
8 . Stopper 2? . 9 A. No.
8
A. Yes, it was.
'
,.
9 Q. With respect to whether or not a particular
' 10 Q. Who supplied that material?
.
10 application was ineiulllc or organic, asbestos,
.'
' /I , 12
A. I just told yuu. That's the ones that we touk . and turned into economy. ,
.
11 non-asbestos. would lUylue makethe decision as to what 12 to use. or would you rely upon what the original
13 Q. Okay. So ES, you just continued on with
13 equipment manufacturer was supplying?
14 Allied. And the'others you mentioned under the name
14
A. We would rely un uur friction material
15 economy? 16 A. Yes.
'.
. ' ..
15 supplier to tell us what they recommended for. that
16' application. .
.
'
17 Q. The standard line, was there a particular `
17
And we, in turn, would buy a sample set from
16 manufacturer that was the exclusive manufacturer for
.18 a car dealership to make sure that we agreed with what
19 that line?
..
19 they told us, that it was semi-mel versus not metallic.
20 A. Yea.
'
20 you know, non-mttallic versus metallic But we relied
21 ` Q. Who was that?
. 21 on our supplier to say so.
'
22 A. Abex. ' . .
22 . Let's say it was a semi-met. We would then
.
. 23 Q. And the professional line, was there
23 say -- if it was a jenw'-met and they said, wc/i,
24 a manufacturer that was the exclusive manufacturer
24 organics trill work nn that application, we say it's
25 for that line?
.. 25 semi-met, we want to put semi-met on it; and we would
Page 175
'
Page 177
1 A. Abex.
.
2 Q. So am I correcnhat when you got into
3 professional standard and economy designations, Abex
4 was your exclusive supplier, except for (he economy '
5 designations; and that's because other manufacturers
6 were more price coinpetitive? .
7 A. Yes.
. 8 . v ' MR. DUMLER: That's all the questions
9. 1 have. Thank you for your time.
"
10 '
MR. RJLEY: Anybody on the phone have
11 questions?
'
.
12 . MR. ERRANTE: No questions.'
13 MR. LIPSHULTZ: No questions.
14 . MR. RILEY: I just have a couple of
15 points.
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT
18
. GENUINE PARTSCOMPANY
'
19 BY MR. RILEY:
20 Q. Paul, you were asked a series of questions
21 about the insurance company inspections and whether
22- or not you received notification of those.
23 In your job capacity, would you normally
24 receive notification of those kind of reports?
'
25 A. No, 1 will not.
1 not accept the non-tnciallic.
.
2 MR. RILEY: Okay. Thai's all 1 have.
3.' MR. DUMLER: Read and sign?
4 MR. RILEY: Read arul sign. '
5.
{Signature reserved.)
6 (Whereupon, at 2:10 p.m.. ihe taking of the
7 instant deposition was concluded.). .s
9
10- (Signature of (he Witness)
II
12 SUBSCRIBED and SWORN TO before me this
13 davof
.
14
15
14
NOTARY PUBLIC '
'
17 My Commission Expires:
_
18
19
20
21
22
-
'
23
2
25
. . ,,
' '
. . . WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. rN'C.'. 404-351-4577 .
45 (Pages 174 io 177) . ' .
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
6/1/01.- Paul L. leCour
Page 178
1 ERR'ATa sheet
2
3 RE: Hickj, el al., n. ACandS. Inc., el al. '
4 DEPOSmON OF: PAUL L LECOUR
'.
5 ' Please read this oriyiiul.deposition with
6 care; and if you find any corrections or changes you
-
7 wish made, fist them by page and line number beta*.
8 DO NOT WRITE fN THE DEPOSITION ITSELF. Return the
9 deposition to this office after it is signed. We
10 would appreciate your prompt anention to this miner.
11 . To assist you in making any such corrections.
-
12 please use the form below. If supplemental or
13 additional pages are necessary, please furnish same
14 and attach them to this errata sheet.
..
-
15 PageLine"should read:
17 Page_____ Line
should.read
IS
19 Page_____ Line^
should read
20
21 P?ge___ Line - should read:
22
23 Page_____ Line
should read
24 .
23 NLH
I
DISCLOSURE.
STATE OF GEORGIA COUNTY OF FULTON
DEPONENT: FA ULL. LECOUR
PunuMi to Aftklt S.6. of ihe Rules ind
Refutations of die Board ofCoun Reporting of
the/udicial Council orCcorgis, f note the
following disclosure
--
I im Georgia Certified Court Repener.
I am here as an independent eonirxtor for
Wheeler Reporting Company, Inc. . - Winter Reporting Company, tne. was
.
' conucied by dw Pttbgr, Dwuicr Kfcly.lLP.
u> provitle court reporting services for this
deposition. Wheeler Reporting Company, Inc.
will to* he taking this deposition under any
coonct (hat it prohibited by O.C.Cvt ($(* 3?
(aland | b).
.
Wheeler Repotting Company. Inc., has no eontnctrayreemmi to provide feporting services with any party to die case, any
-
counsel in the case, or any reporter or
._
' frportjng agency front whom a referral might
have been made to cover this deposition.
Wbeder Repotting Company, Inc* wilt charge
ha usual and customary rates to all panics
> n (he case, and a hruntrial diseotmt will not
be given to any party to this litigation.
Page 180
Nancy 1. Holloway Oaw: June M.'iOOl Ccnitird Court Kcponct
.CCR-B*J0*9
Page 179
Page 181
.1 Page_____ . Line 7
should read <
3 Page______Line_____ should read 4
s' Paae 6.
Line . should read:
7 Pase
Line
should read:
8
9 Page_____ Line
should read:
10
II Page______ Line
shoo'ld read:
12
13 Pace 14
Line
should read
15 Page______ Line 16
should read:
17 Page
Line_____ should read:
18 19 Page______ Line
should read:
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21 Page______ Line
should read
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23 ' Pace
Line
should read:
24
.25 PAUL L. LECOUR
'
*'
* -
, NLH
' 1 CERTIFICATE2
3 GEORGIA:
4 FULTON COUNTY: '
'
5 1 hereby certify that the foregoing
6 deposition was taken down, as stated in the caption, .
7 and the colloquies, questions, and answers were reduced
8 to typewriting-under my direction; that the foregoing
9 transcript is a true and correct record of the evidence
10 given.
.
11 The above certification is expressly withdrawn
12 and denied upon the disassembly br photocopying of the
'
1? foregoing transcript, unless said disassembly or
-
14 photocopying is done under the auspices of Wheeler
15 Reporting Company. Inc.. Certified Court Reporters, 16 and the signature and original seal is attached thereto.
' 17
I further certify that I am not a relative or
'
IS employee or attorney of any party, nor am I financially
19 interested in the outcome of the action.
20 This, the 20tlt day of June, 2001.
.
' 21
22
23 Nancy L. Holloway 24 Certified Couri Reporter
25 CCR-B-1049
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY,.INC.. 404-3-51-4577
46 (Pages 17S to IS!)
Hicks, et al. v. ACan'dS, Inc., etal.
' .6/1/01-Paul L. LeCour Page 182
.-
A'
149:9 155:2,7,11- advised 97:19 113:2 alerting 160:17 . . answered 40:19
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.
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'
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'
WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404-351-4577
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, inc.,.et al.
6/1/01- - Paul L. LeCour Page 183
96:22 , ' 122:5 126:2,5,6 attached 88:23
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' 110:3,24 113:19
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127:3 130:6
114:3,24 116:25
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benefits 20:25
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became 16:9 23:11 -157:10,12
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, WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY; INC./404-351-4577 "
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et a).
6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour Page 184
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WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. INC.. 404-351-4577
Hicks, et al. v, ACandS, Inc., et al.
6/1/01.'- Paul L. LeCour ' Page 185
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WHfELER REPORTING COMPANY, INC., 404-,t51-4577
Hicks, et al. v, ACandS, Inc., et al.
,'
6/1/01- Paul L. LeCour Page 186
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VVH! : LER REPORTING COMPANY. INC.. 404.: 3.51.4477
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
.
" . 6/1/01 - Paul L. LeCour Page 187
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WH: :.ER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.. 404-?51-4577
Hicks, et al. v..ACandS, Inc., et a!.
6/1/01, - Paul L. LeCour Page 188
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Pamela 3.-4 - pamphlet 4:18
WHEIM.ER REPORTING COMPANY/INC..
1-4577
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
. 6/1/01 - .Paul L. LeCour Page 195
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6/1/0) - Paul L. LeCour. ' Page 197
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6/1/01Paul L; LeCour Page 198
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WHEELER REPORTING COMPANY. INC.. -!IU..'o 1.4577
Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, IncM et al.
' 6/1/01, Paul L, LeCour Page 199
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6/1/01. - Paul L. LeCour . Page 200
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' .WHEELER. REPORTING COMPANY. INC.,- 404-351-4577 i
Hicks, et a), v. ACandS, Inc., et al.
.
' 6/1/01Paul L. LeCour Page 201
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Hicks, et al. v. ACandS, Inc., 'et al. ' .
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6/1/01 - Paul l. LeCow
Page 203
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