Document mEQ0maxdRnOaJ6qZJggMo57k

FILE NAME: Phenolic Resins (PHR) DATE: 1989 DOC#: PHR081 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Notes on Deposition of Dernehl um 4-15 20-25 1-11 12-16 20-24 6- 9 18-25 'I-7 EFfiCFTpTIQiL , s dust was Admitted ^ a ^ o n c ^ e d ab^utastestoeu at hazardous and was to Ring city, the time of fltst _ ,,.,,.s ixom day one King city began t a k i n g o{ Dr. Hale. Of plant on nloVees by outside X-rays Meie ^ " ' c n y T a ^ 0""10" Carbllle 314 n<>t t al 8tuay ao,,e at ,11 any epidemiological study Did not recall any w King City. reviewing a Recalled a s p e c i a l ^ ^ J ^ r . that the local large number of doctor did not mi anything. ^ ^radiologist. Thought specialist was a E rea ^ ^ medlcal^epartment^in 5 5 " ? * . 1- 7 *" " ke3dIc b X department'll 8-24 mining asbestos. studies did "idicaTkdtpaartmKt h ^ r e p U e i k n e v T ofsel ikoi 16-21 6-17 S .- a s s s - * - ; t r -- toxicology at ics Pittsburgh. included other . I t ,,^trVal^oxicology at Chemical J ^ in 18-25 1- 4 c_11 Union Carbide J O * p ^ i V and headed by Dr. r f * U S h 5i0S S ,? o S 2 " i - caroil veil. p. carpenter, ..... ,t ,,ellon - 1m 4nn carbide / t " PAGE LINE DESCRIPTION 43 17-24 Policy of Union Carbide to have chest x-rays at -- all plants began in early 1940s. 44 10-21 Did not recall any Union Carbide directive to customers telling them to get annual chest x-rays but said that sale or marketing people may have told them to do so. 46 11-25 Before OSHA standards were set in 1972, did not believe Union Carbide issued literature to customers regarding how customers' employees should be protected but on what the workers should be protected against. This was done in the form of product bulletins and material safety data sheets if there were any on asbestos. 48 20-24 Reiterated customers were not told how to protect but what should be protected from. 49 1-4 Exhibit 10, Material Safety Data Sheet - "Effects of Over Exposure" containing "Prolonged over exposure may result in lung disease." 55 9-12 Union Carbide did work on toxicology of Coalinga;. or calridia fiber. . 56 7-22 Ex. 45, article written by Danger, Wolff, Rohl and Selikoff in Journal of Toxicology and Environ mental Health. 57 6-17 Published in 1978 about study being done of Union Carbide Calridia RG 144 fiber. 58 1-11 Did not know of article. Knew that study was done^ at Mellon on toxicity of Calidria asbestos fibers./ 59 7-11 Above calidria study was done in 1966. 60 5-25 Reason for the study - In 1960s, it was thought 61 1-11 that long fibers caused asbestosis, and it was long fibers that a person needed to be protected against. Then a form of silicosis, a disease similar to asbestosis, produced by ultra fine particles of silica and silica powder developed in a groups of workers. Since these particles were so small and yet caused a similar disease, it was then thought that perhaps the small y/ asbestos fibers could possibly cause asbestosis. 17-24 Was concerned in -1960s that calridia asbestos iX could have same effect as silica in humans. 3 Yi page 64 66 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 LINg 9-23 1-25 5-22 20-24 11-16 23-25 1 5-14 15-17 18-25 1- 5 6-13 14-21 15-24 2- 7 16-20 DESCRIPTION In 1960s not all Union Carbide technical reports concerning asbestos that were sent to customers were sent to the medical department but if made reference to any health problem it would be re viewed by the medical department. Discussion of Ex. 4 "Asbestos Toxicology Report" by deponent and Dr. Lane. While at Union Carbide asbestos reports were filed in files under "asbestos" along with anything picked up concerning asbestos. Did not know when Asbestos Toxicology Report (Ex. 4) was published. Stated usually was dated. Agreed that Ex. 32, dated 1-12-65, suggests report ^ above was in 1964. Agreed that report was based on medical litera ture at the time. Discussion of 3rd paragraph of report concerning waste control asbestos dust exposure and partic ular use of the wet processes when possible. Stated paper making process is a wet system. Admitted at beginning of wet system when fiber is dumped, dust would be released. Stated Union Carbide tried to handle by reducing the amount of dusting by pelletizing the product so there were no loose fibers in the bag so when dumped "less dust" and local exhaust ventilation at point of dumping could pick up and carry away dust more readily. Agreed that there was still dust with pellets. Stated that a paper board when cut, drilled or ground will not get dust to his knowledge. In paragraph 3 of report, recomendations he made for dust control were a closed flow system, a wet process when possible, and adequate exhaust ventilation when openings were necessary. Stated recommended use of respirators also. Agreed with paragraph 3 and said it was "state of the art protection of that day and time." 4 PAGE 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 tJNE 21-25 1- 9 10-21 22-25 1- 2 3-13 25 1- 2 2-12 13-24 1- 7 8-10 19-25 1-17 1-15 DESCRIPTION Stated It would be desirable to know dust con centrations where asbestos is dumped from bags into the pulp slurry. It would be desirable because this is where person ^ could be exposed to asbestos dust when taken out of bag and where asbestos is exposed to outside -- air and can escape to said air. This included pelletized asbestos as well. Stated "concentrations should also be determined where dusting occurs in finishing products." ~ Knew of no dust studies done by Union Carbide. -- Stated that responsibility of testing was rcustomers and paragraph 3 told customers to test, and Union Carbide did not test in customers' plants. Stated would be surprised to hear of Union Carbide sampling at the point where bags are dumped and products finished. Pg 2 of report stated physical exams were "desirable" and should include chest x-rays. Stated it was known that breathing excessive quantities of asbestos would produce changes within the lung that would show on an x-ray. Did not recall if at time of report, he or Union Carbide knew mesothelioma could be caused by asbestos but admitted in earlier paragraphs of said report increases of incidents of cancerous tumors, especially of the lung, were discussed. Agreed mesothelioma is a cancerous tumor of the lining of the lung. Did not remember Ex. 5 which was report by Dr. I. " C. Sayers with Union Carbide U. K. Limited. Remembered only request for analytical assistance from Union Carbide which was to define the para meters of fibers that were to be used in testing. Discussion of UICC, organization set up to d e t e r m i n e characteristics of fibers to be tested to determine effects of asbestos in animals. 5 PAGE 83 84 85 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 LINE 7-14 15-25 1 14-23 24-25 1- 5 DESCRIPTION Stated that Pg 4 of Ex. 5 raised questions about hazards, and some of concerns were addressed by materials sent for New York office and the report mentioned above (Ex.32). Agreed based on the contents, Ex. 5 had some thing to say about the hazards of asbestos. . .Did not recall what "Carbide's replies have been"7 /. based upon 2 communications set by New York office | on March 22, 1966, and October 7, 1966" were and i had no recollection of work of Newhouse and^ 1 Thompson at London hospital. Did not recall hearing of problems of London dock workers handling Union Carbide asbestos and their refusal to unload shipments. 25 1- 4 Agreed that in Sayers' report (Ex. 5) that Southall, Charles Turner Mill and Tullis Paper Mill raised questions to Sayers about the use of Union Carbide's asbestos in the mills. 13-21 Discussion of Pg 8 entitled "Literature Surveys" but did not recall who made surveys. 22-25 1- 6 7-24 Stated medical department of Union Carbide did survey literature of material in U. S. on .asbestos. Stated did not see reports in 1960s about South African asbestos mines concerning diseases. 25 . 1 6-25 1-14 Saw reports on Canadian chrysotile mine workers. Stated that in Sayers' report, some of cases cited were those in Canada which he had read. Discussion of Dernehl's desire to know the dust concentrations when asbestos is dumped from bag. 15-25 9-16 Discussion of type of bag used. Did not recall Union Carbide doing a dust count -- in a region of a freshly opened bag of pelletized and open products as was recommended in report. 21-25 Discussion of industrial hygiene studies conducted at Charleston, West Virginia in plants 511 and 512 in 1962 and 1963. 6 PAGE 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 LINE 3-15 20-21 3-24 1-17 18-21 22-25 1-11 12-25 4-25 1-13 14-20 23-25 1- 4 10-18 19-25 DESCRIPTION Agreed these studies were done to determine quantity of dust that was developed in sawing Insulation that was applied to pipes. Reason done was to see how much dust was produced by process. .. ... Discussion of Ex. 24 which was memo of 7-20-62 on said study and received by deponent. Discussion of Ex. 25 which was memo of 12-3-62 from medical department of Plant 512 at Institute/ West Virginia stating dust problems of sawing blocks and Johns-Manvilie's complaints that results from said Union Carbide studies did not match their observations. Manville's representative suggested supervisor of insulation department and industrial hygienist visit Manville to determine reason for discrepancy. Ex. 26/ memo of 12-4-62 from Sexton who was medical director to Giambruno who was a supervisor telling him not to send anyone to Manville to .supervise and not to study Manville report but to continue own studies. Ex. 27, letter dated 10-23-63 from Sexton to Giambruno submitting report that indicated that 2 kinds of asbestos-containing insulation blocks cannot be processed, with reasonable dust con centration that one other type can. fjsx. 33, letter from deponent dated 6-7-67, to -- fC /Dr. Hall which indicated that deponent did readj Sayers' report. ^ Stated Union Carbide did do studies in which material was injected into the belly cavities of guinea pigs, rats and rabbits. Threshold limit value - "5 million particles per cubic foot will not be acceptable for the prevention of mesotheiToma." Stated that by 6-7-67, he was aware of mesothelioma and questioned that the threshold limit value was sufficient to prevent it. Thought it possible that 1 million particles pa cubic foot (1/5 of threshold limit value at that time) might not be enough to prevent mesothelioma. 7 PAGE 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 LINE 1- 6 7-25 1-16 17-22 23- 25 1- 2 24- 25 1-20 21 1- 2 19-25 2-12 4-10 22-25 DESCRIPTION Thought this concern was not passed on to customers. Did not recall Ex. 34, letter of 6-13-67 (with toxicology report attached) from T. J. Hall to Frank Dexter, but remembered hearing of problems _ from badly damaged bags of asbestos and refusal of dock workers to unload. Recalled shipments were in England but not if asbestos was in pellets or in what type of bags. Ex. 34 stated Dr. Dernehl followed very closely the areas of possible toxicity and carcinogenic properties of asbestos. Deponent objected to the very" but said he did follow these areas closely. Agreed following closely meant reviewing medical ^ literature on the topic. Admitted following also might mean going out and ^ searching rather than just keeping abreast of materials in hand. Ex. 35, letter of 8-1-67 from Thomas Hall to Frank Dexter with copy sent to deponent. Ex. 36, letter of 11-30-67 from Hall to Dexter. Paragraph 2 of letter stated, "Perhaps it would be better to have this sort of publication ... first approved by Carl Dernehl before we finally agree." Deponent stated that "publication did m - reallv refer to Sayers' report. In said letter "Ian" wanted permission to publish Union Carbide data which deponent believed have to do with asbestos data done by Union Carbide Belgium. Handwritten notes of Sayers included in letter included the following, "Chrysotile fibers, being curved, are less likely to go deep into l u n g s . Injected chrysotile does cause cancer in rats, so the fact that in practice it is less responsible for tumor production is probably due to a greater eiimfnai-ion rate as well as it's geom." Stated now agrees with Sayers so probably did so in 1967. 8 PAGE 109 110 112 113 114 115 116 LINE 12-17 1-18 19-21 25 1- 9 14-15 16-25 4-10 11-16 12-17 16-21 22-25 1-6 DESCRIPTION Agreed that around 1967 he was concerned with? Calridia asbestos fibers because they are/ ^ short, fine and had a greater possibility of/ getting into the airways of the lungs. _A Did not recall if Sayers' report was published but ^ stated he viewed his role as that of a reviewer and not a final authority on whether to publish .. or not. Ex. 33, document dated 4-28-67, from Bert Murray, an industrial hygienist, to D. C. Willard on studies of employees installing Kaylo insula tion and the recommendation for continuation o f the study. Per deponent, air studies were being done in 1967 in Charleston and Institute (Texas City was later) to determine if Union Carbide workers were being exposed to excessive amounts of asbestos. Declared Union Carbide had a concern about em- ^ ployees' exposure to asbestos long before 1967. Stated first concerned when first started using asbestos including insulators applying and re moving insulation and the way they were doing it and trying to see to it that they used appropriate respiratory protection while they were doing the work. Air sampling began in early 1960s when industrial hygienists were used. ./i Annual chest x-rays were started about 1941 at South Charleston; 1947 in Institute and Texas City; and all other plants when they were started v Ex. 39, memo of 9-29-75 from H. B. Rhoades to R. E. Byrne, Jr. Stated after OSHA standards went into effect in 1972, Union Carbide did not offer air testing to customer plants. V/ Discussion of John L. Myers, marketing manager fory V Calridia asbestos division. Stated Union Carbide analyzing of air samples from customer plants was not being done because Union Carbide did not want to intrude on customers' operations. 9 EASE116 LIME*7-10 p^pr-RTPTIOti - in iQ70s air sampling was being ^ S e T i ^ a r X e t l n , too! to alleviate fears. Cross Examination by Mr. Polk: Agreed that ^ M 1 - asbestos whence6rived*iif 1947, and probably had/ >/ some knowledge in 1930s. 21-25 Agreed basis of knowledge was review of aedlcal v/ literature. union carbide had ability and 11.8 13-21 on outside organizations to c ln-dep?h ^ to 1947 the Mellon Institute. llteratu re thI0U 9h 119 120 122 123 125 25 1- 2 3- 8 18-25 3-10 13-25 1- 3 4- 8 9- 19 17-20 expanded^to^he SS? / on this kind of search. ^faftr,en\nsO W t o 9Lbe0stoS"n harardrbine ^ solely based on literature. Stated first time Union b i d . t & v at Mellon Institute. - anlM l stodles Stated Union Carbidenhp?ant pe?icn?e ^i^West 1962 by virtue of ^"eitration during certain Virginia on dust co ce operations, manufacturing and maintenance op _ When he went to he personally knew a t atal disease from his, medical*educationSat University of Wisconsin. ^ Stated asbestos Is is In part related to the dosage one inhales. ^ SSSA 3 2 ' a r t r ^ ' s s ,^ ",/ unl0,, carbide flrstn established It industrial hygiene department in 1953. 126 10- 13 ! ? * . t U * in"tandem lft"h m ^ l c a V deptmePnt. PAGE 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 134 136 137 138 141 142 LINE 24-25 1- 3 10-19 20-24 3- 7 11-15 4- 8 20-24 8-18 15-18 20-22 18-21 9-16 18-25 10 5-20 DESCRIPTION Believed that in 1967, medical <aepartme: aObUl4.yJ knew that- t-h-e-re was a relationship between J asbestos and mesothelioma. Believed incontrovertibly that asbestos can cause] mesothelioma. Stated formulated this opinion in the early 1970s. This opinion was based on reliable studies on various work groups which showed a .. statistical association between asbestos exposure and mesothelioma. Believed absence of valid studies before early 1970s on this subject. Stated did not believe any studies existed prior to 1967 because most were just ountin9 mesothelioma and making an association which might not be valid. in 1947, when he joined Union Carbide he lanfl- ^ stood chrysotile asbestos fiber could cause asbestosis. Was not aware, prior to 1979, of any study Union Carbide did or commissioned for determining toxicity of chrysotile asbestos fiber as compared to another type of fiber or HC_JICoesrnln9 carcinogenicity of chrysotile asbestos. . Recalled cases of alleged asbestosis at Institute in Charleston from 1970 to this retirement. Did not know that bakelite contained asbestos. ^ Stated purpose of toxicology report was a request]) by marketing people for such a statement. Stated Union Carbide toxicology reports were not reviewed on a regular basis. Stated that In 1967 believed Sayers' report to b e > reasonably accurate. Was a member of Union Carbide label committee from .1955 until 1978. Made recommendations from a medical ^ xlol2 V' standpoint on labeling of asbestos which was adopted by committee with possible minor revisions. 11 PAGE 142 143 144 145 148 149 151 152 156 157 LINE 21-25 1- 6 4- 5 8- 9 13-24 8-24 1-10 1-10 11-15 1-15 25 1- 5 11-14 10-12 16-25 7-12 DESCRIPTION Discussion by medical department of possible labeling to Include potential cancer was had but not adopted. , Use of word "cancer" was rejected by committee. In 1947, knew that inhaled asbestos in excessive quantities could produce asbestosis. Excessive quantities to him was anything in excess of 10 particles per cubic foot greater than 10 microns in length. When asked if he personally felt it did any good to warn users of Union Carbide asbestos not to breathe dust they could not see, he said yes and/ likened it to warning people not to breathe gas.j As of 1960, Union Carbide had experts who could test and evaluate air levels for asbestos and the equipment to do so at some locations if desired. Between 1960 and 1972, the expertise for this testing would have increased. Reiterated that in 1940s his concern in asbestos relating to insulators using asbestos and manipu lating it in pipe insulation and block insulation. Knew that asbestos was in some gaskets. Believed asbestos-containing material was not a hazard unless disturbed or unless asbestos was released into air. . ^Believed sufficient valid epidemiological studies^ that indicated chrysotile asbestos can cause mesothelioma and lung cancer; and more conclusive ** evidence that this probability is 10 times greater .if person smokes. ^ Pointed out the fact that evidence shows asbestos picks up carcinogenic materials from cigarettes, binds and carries them wherever it travels. In early 1970s knew of the effect between asbestos and cigarette smoking. First asbestos labels were applied to bags in early 1960s when Union Carbide began shipping. Admitted that may be possible that early shipments of first year may have been without 12 ^ label committee's 4. nnt- done without la&ei labels b u t * Val knowledge or app PAGE. 158 159 IdM5-13 14-21 14-24 \,:"PFffCFTPTIQM- breathing dust." Early i b be\s5 would bey -DoAVnot breathe dust." . . ; ater 1 L a t ( l ^ lt T i n ^ e exposure toS L/ Istabllshefl assoclatio^ and lunJ cancer. j asbestos and me beiieved long 1960s or early l97 different than In lateol9c6hrysotile type w*r ^ t h a t they d o Vaehior ca9ea T -- ^ f diseases. le-cross Examination by Mr- po1 :ross Examination by Mr. GoXaber,: ^ e.tea^unaer 165 cause mesothelioma, exposures. STATE OF MINNESOTA DISTRICT COURT COUNTY OF CARLTON SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 7 PERSONAL INJURY/CAREY Arthur A. Frehse and Helen J Frehse, husband and wife. Plaintiffs vs. Anchor Packing Company, . et al , Defendants VOL. II - TELEPHONIC DEPOSITION OF CARL DEKNEHL, M. D. - 3-15-89 n W o r t Evaml nation bV Mt t HflEVaid-i PAGE. 180 181 186 I.INE 23-25 1 3-14 description Union carbide began issuing toxlcologlca1 or toxicology reports to customers in 1956. Reiterates that when he joined Union Carbide in 1S47 knew from medical studies that asbestos lltl i n s u l a t i o n activities and in asbestos mining could cause asbestosis. 15-25 in late '60s he knew of the association between asbestos and lung cancer. 187 10-16 When learned of association he ^ l i e ^ a that asbestosis would UTlelo. thresholdSlimlt value in his working lifetime. 22-25 ... ft, H n e he believed there had to be a concentration sufficient to produce bestosis before you could have any evidence of cancer. Recalls threshold limit value being reduced 188 9-19 -during the '60s. 195 2-14 5 K - & TM ' 1" ........... 15-24 prudent to keep an open mind and to x ray find out. Union Carbide Ex. A entitled -calidria 197 23-25 198 1- 3 PAGE 200 201 .202 203 205 LINE 14-25 1-7 16-20 13t 25 6-16 nPSCRIPTION E x . 47 identif ied fibrotic nodules within the irogt the aust and the Importance of k 9level below threshold*or"at ^r* lJelow the threshold limit value. Reason for marketing caUldia asbestos in pellet form was to reduce dusting. E*. . identified aa - c a m r "Asbestos Toxicology Report u Asbestos some^uggested^associations not yet proven. 206 9-21 market ing^epartme'nt who^requeste^orRequired said reports. . *.r0a as "Union Carbide Internal 208 12-25 Ex. 49 identified a Correspondence, Mar 91 1970. Subject 'os,, with typed name Toxicity of Calldria As Associate Medical of "C.U. Dernehl, M. v . , * * D i r e c t o r ." , r - T f . . m vam in stln n bV HIT. P ^ ! TjINE description >17 1-13 Reiterates there isanJn effect13 relationship betweeiScigarStte smoking and lung cancer. * , ,0 c* subject "Asbestos > pv 32 - Memo of 1-12-65, su / !18 9-15 T*xox*icJology Report bDvy Thomas Hall. 19 13-25 20 1- 7 cancer and exposure to asbestos. . 19 1965# admits there was :23 14-19 AisnfoorfmatJiaonnuatrhyat1s2u#^9 ' a.sshocidaitdionnobtetawgereene asbestos and lung cancer but ne oi with it. 7-25 States basis for ior? n : " u r t i n , was learned fees, -- one who 2 conducted him at plant visits to King City, California. PAGE LINE DESCRIPTION 227 23-25 States if assumed asbestos being sold to Conwed 228 1- 3 was in open fiber form, it would be more hazardous than pelletized form. ="~ 229 10-25 His definitions of the terms "association" and 230 1- 4 "causal relationship" are given. 233 4- 5 2-8-66 letter from Bud Pufahl to Peter R. Cheston. 21-25 Does not recall telling Mr. Pufahl that papers 234 1-11 reviewed "Do not by any means present incontrovertible proof nor do they profess to do so", and Union Carbide's "position should remain that in the U.S. experience there has been no increased incidence of lung cancer when the threshold limit has not been exceeded," but agrees with it in the time frame of 1966. **** Page 238 is missing. Recross by Brownson is to begin here. 239 V 1-14 Reference to Ex. 49, letter of 3-31-70 from witness in which he writes, "Some people believe there is an association between exposure to asbestos dust and the development of lung cancer and mesothelioma. There is no information regarding Calridia asbestos in this respect as yet. It would be prudent to assume that Calridia asbestos will behave like other/ asbestos in this regard." 21-24 Agrees that thought above statements could be , possibilities. 241 2- 6 Did not believe as of 3-31-70 that mesothelioma could be caused by exposure to any type of asbestos at levels below the threshold limit value. 7-25 Ex. 48, an asbestos toxicology report dated 5 242 1- 8 8-69, states,"From the data available it appears that the TLV of 5 million particles per cubic foot may not be low enough to protect against mesothelioma." 3 .fn **- 4 ' PAGE LINE 243 , 3-13 DESCRIPTION Ex. 33, letter from witness to Dr. Hall dated 6-7-67, witness wrote, "It is probable that the 5 million particles per cubic foot will not be acceptable for the prevention of mesothelioma. I have no idea what concentration might be effective in preventing this disease and I am wondering whether a level of 1 million particles per cubic foot would be acceptable." 244 14-16 Believed 5 million particles per cubic foot was probably too high to prevent mesothelioma since it was reduced to two. 245 16-25 Thinks as of August of 1972, Union Carbide had 246 1- 2 the right to inform its customers that on the basis of current knowledge, which was threshold limit value, they could expect their employees to be protected against the hazard. 3- 6 Hazard of mesothelioma would have b$en considered in this setting of the threshold limit value. .- 249 16-19 Believed if Union Carbide had done surveys on 3 ir samplings at Conwed, Union Carbide would have informed the Conwed that they were within the threshold limit value. Cross Examination bv Mr. Thorns j.P.* Redirect hv Mr. Harvard: page 260 fclNE 15-24 DESCRIPTION * Evidence is that the short fiber (Calridia) is cleared from the lungs more rapidly than is the long fibers because they are small enough to be readily moved out of lung. Also the short fiber is less in diameter which gives it different characteristics from the long fiber. 261 12-16. States that asbestos is a chemical entity, and the length does not matter because it still remains asbestos. Recross Examination bv Mr ,_PoljL PAGE 263 LINE 4- 7 DESCRIPTION: States first knew cigarette smoking was hazardous to health in '80s. 1