Document koY2vj4wvkdB9v6pzj9Kjok0

FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 WALTER OWENS, et al., ) 6 Plaintiffs, ) 7 8 vs. ) ) CIVIL ACTION NO. 9 ) CV-P-440-E 10 MONSANTO COMPANY, ) 11 Defendant. ) 12 13 DEPOSITION OF: WILLIE FRANCIS BYRD 14 15 In accordance with Rule 5 (d) of The 16 Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure, as Amended, 17 effective May 15,1988,1, TAMMY JENNINGS 18 GREGORY, am hereby delivering to MR. LARRY WRIGHT 19 the original transcript of the oral testimony 20 taken on the 27th day of October, 1999, along 21 with exhibits. 22 Please be advised that this is the same and 23 not retained by the court reporter, nor filed OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035325 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 2 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 with the Court. 2 The deposition of Willie Francis Byrd was 3 taken before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, 4 commencing at 9:25 A.M. on the 27th day of 5 October, 1999, by the Plaintiffs, at the law 6 offices of Fite & Miller, Anniston, Alabama 7 pursuant to the stipulations set forth herein. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035326 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 3 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 Appearing For The Plaintiffs: 4 MITHOFF & JACKS, LLP 5 By: Larry Wright, Esquire 6 and Laura Ruth, Esquire 7 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 1010 8 Austin, Texas 78701 9 10 Appearing For The Defendant: 11 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 12 By: Adam Peck, Esquire 13 TheClark Building 14 400 20th Street North 15 Birmingham, Alabama 35203-3200 16 17 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & MOORE 18 By: Michael E. Kelly, Esquire 19 300 North Greene Street, Suite 1400 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035327 20 Greensboro, North Carolina, 27401 21 22 Court Reporter: 23 Tammy R. Jennings Gregory 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 4 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 INDEX 2 3 Witness: Willie Francis Byrd 4 Stipulations...........................page 5 5 Examination by Mr. Wright............. page 7 6 Reporter's Certificate................ page 98 7 8 9 10 11 EXHIBITS 12 13 Plaintiffs'No. 12....................... page16 14 Plaintiffs'No. 13....................... page17 15 Plaintiffs'No. 14....................... page26 16 Plaintiffs'No. 15....................... page32 17 Plaintiffs'No. 16....................... page42 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035328 18 Plaintiffs'No. 17 19 20 21 22 23 page 54 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 5 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STIPULATIONS 2 3 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and 4 between the parties through their respective 5 counsel that the deposition of Willie Francis 6 Byrd may be taken before Tammy R. Jennings 7 Gregory, at the law offices of Fite & Miller, 8 Anniston, Alabama on the 27th day of October, 9 1999. 10 11 12 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 13 the signature to and the reading of the 14 deposition by the witness is waived, the 15 deposition to have the same force and effect as OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035329 16 if full compliance had been had with all laws and 17 rules of court relating to the taking of 18 depositions. 19 20 21 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 22 it shall not be necessary for any objections to 23 be made by counsel to any questions, except as to 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 6 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 form or leading questions, and that counsel for 2 the parties may make objections and assign 3 grounds at the time of trial or at the time said 4 deposition is offered in evidence or prior 5 thereto. 6 7 8 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 9 the notice of filing of the deposition is waived. 10 11 12 13 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035330 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 7 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STATE OF ALABAMA, CITY OF ANNISTON, 2 OCTOBER 27, 1999, 3 9:25 PM., 4 5 WILLIE FRANCIS BYRD, 6 having been first duly sworn, was examined and 7 testified as follows: 8 9 COURT REPORTER: Usual stipulations 10 okay? 11 MR. PECK: Yes. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035331 12 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. 13 14 EXAMINATION BY MR. WRIGHT: 15 Q. Good morning, Mr. Byrd. Again, thank you for 16 coming in. Have you ever given a deposition 17 before? 18 A. No. 19 Q. I think you know this, but I want to say it 20 on the record so that we're clear that you 21 understand these things. You understand that 22 a deposition is testimony under oath, and 23 it's the same oath you would take if you were 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 8 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 in the courtroom in front of a Judge and a 2 jury? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And that all of the same force and effect of 5 the oath applies, for example, perjury and 6 all of that applies toyour testimony today 7 just like it would if you were in front of a 8 Judge and jury? 9 A. Correct. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035332 10 Q. And under certain circumstances, you 11 understand that this testimony could actually 12 be read to a Judge and a jury in this case? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. Let me ask you to do a couple things. 15 One, you're doing a pretty good job of -- 16 actually better than most witnesses -- 17 speaking out loud because our court reporter 18 is writing down the words we say, and she 19 can't -- well, she can -- but it's awkward 20 for her to write down nods head or shakes 21 head. 22 A. All right. 23 Q. Secondly, if I ask you a question that you 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 9 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 don't understand, if you would stop me and 2 say Larry, I just don't understand what 3 you're asking me; can you ask it a different 4 way, I'll try to ask it a different way. 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. And don't answer a question that you don't 7 understand, that way when we get through with OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035333 8 the deposition, we'll know that every answer 9 you gave was to a question you understood at 10 the time. Okay? 11 A. Certainly. 12 Q. Can you tell me when you started with 13 Monsanto? 14 A. May the 10th, 1965. 15 Q. And what was your first job with Monsanto? 16 A. Process operator in the chlorine department. 17 Q. How long did you stay in that job? 18 A. Somewhere around 1979 -- I'm sorry -- '69 19 probably. I'm not good on dates as far as 20 remembering exact dates. 21 Q. Were you there until the chlorine plant shut 22 down? 23 A. Yes. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 10 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. I want to come back and talk to you about 2 that, but I want to trace through your career 3 if we can. 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. Where did you go after the chlorine plant? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035334 6 A. From chlorine plant, I went to the aroclor 7 department as a process operator. 8 Q. And how long were you there? 9 A. I'm not sure. 10 Q. Until it shut down? 11 A. I think until it shut down. 12 Q. Okay. You just killed all those departments, 13 didn't you? 14 A. Well, yeah. 15 Q. Where did you go after that? 16 A. To the parathion department as a process 17 operator. 18 Q. And how long were you there? 19 A. I'm not sure. 20 Q. Until it shut down? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you have a ballpark? Was it months or 23 years? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 11 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. It was a few years. I made chief operator at 2 that time in the parathion department. 3 Q. Okay. Where did you go after parathion? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035335 4 A. To -- do you want me to abbreviate it or say 5 it -- paranitrophenol department, PNP 6 department. 7 Q. And how long were you there? 8 A. I'm not sure. Like I said. I'm not good on 9 lengths of time and dates. I would have to 10 go back through my employment record. 11 Q. Several years? 12 A. Few years. 13 Q. Okay. Then where did you go? 14 A. I went and shut down P2S5. 15 Q. Okay. Then where did you go? Well, how long 16 were you at P2S5? 17 A. Very short term. Months. 18 Q. Then where did you go? 19 A. I went to maintenance as an instrument 20 electrician. 21 Q. And how long were you there? 22 A. For some years. Again, I don't remember how 23 many years. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 12 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Then where did you go? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035336 2 A. To chief operator, plant chief operator. 3 Several years. 4 Q. Then where did you go? 5 A. To trainer resource person. 6 Q. And how long were you there? 7 A. Two to three years there. 8 Q. Okay. Then where? 9 A. Then promoted into -- as safety and health 10 technician. 11 Q. And how long there? 12 A. Until retirement. 13 Q. And when did you retire? 14 A. October 1st, 1998. 15 Q. Okay. Fairly recently. 16 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 17 Q. Going back to the chlorine -- 18 A. Wait a minute. Hang on. Let's see. This is 19 '99. I told you I wasn't good with dates. 20 '97. 21 Q. '97? 22 A. '97. 23 Q. Okay. If we could, I'd like for you to walk 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 13 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035337 1 me through the chlorine operation and give us 2 an overview of how the chlorine operation 3 worked. And I'd like to -- 4 A. From the start? 5 Q. Yeah. I'd like -- and I'd like to kind of 6 draw a diagram if we can. 7 A. I flunked art school also. 8 Q. Draw us the outline of the building and then 9 we'll just -- 10 A. Okay. Let's see if I can do-- 11 Q. You might want to make it bigger than that 12 because we may have a lot of stuff to put in 13 there. 14 A. Let me have the legal size. (Witness 15 drawing.) Back a few years. This is not 16 going to be exactly accurate. 17 Q. That's all right. We know it's not to scale, 18 but it will give us a feel of the layout of 19 the situation there. 20 A. Pretty much ground level. That's it. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. This is railroad tracks. 23 Q. Okay. Let's go ahead and label some of these 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 14 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035338 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 things. Put RR there. 2 A. Okay. ST will stand for storage tanks. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. I'm going to put PT for process tanks. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. And again, this is not correct on the amount 7 or exact locations. 8 Q. You mean on the numbers of tanks? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. Yeah. 11 A. I'm going to put SAT for a saturator. 12 Q. Okay. On the big -- 13 A. -- which is a large storage tank, large 14 tank. And I don't remember what these were 15 called. I call them BT for brine tanks, 16 b-r-i-n-e tanks. 17 Q. And then were the cells lined up in this 18 building? 19 A. Right. This was the cell -- pretty much the 20 cell house in here. 21 Q. How were they oriented? 22 A. They were in this type direction. 23 Q. Two rows? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035339 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 15 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Two rows. 2 Q. Okay. Somebody else told me there were 3 thirty-six of them. 4 A. There were thirty-six cells. Eighteen to a 5 side. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. And8 Q. And then what else was in here besides the 9 cells? 10 A. This was -- the cells were on the top floor. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. It was two-story wooden floor top floor. 13 Q. What was on the bottom floor? 14 A. The bottom floor was the pump tanks and part 15 of the -- I think we called them decomposers. 16 I can't remember. 17 But each cell also had -- for lack 18 of a better term, we'll call them 19 "decomposers." I'm not sure that's correct. 20 Q. Okay. What did decomposer do? 21 A. That's where the hydrogen -- they were filled 22 with carbon granules. This is where the OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035340 23return from the flow from the cell went back 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 16 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 into. 2 This is where we mixed the water 3 with the caustic to make a certain percent 4 caustic, either KOH or NAOH sodium hydroxide 5 or potassium hydroxide, depending on what 6 brine we were using on that particular cell. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. And then also downstairs was the pump tanks 9 for mercury. So the decomposers actually 10 stuck through the floor from the bottom to 11 the second floor. 12 Q. Okay. Can you draw what a pump tank looked 13 like, just your best attempt? 14 A. (Witness drawing.) Top view. 15 Q. Just a big round tank. 16 MR. WRIGHT: Which number are we 17 on? 18 COURT REPORTER: Should be 12. 19 20 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 12 was OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035341 21 marked for identification and 22 copy of same is attached 23 hereto.) 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 17 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Let's see. And I remember we had inlets and 2 outlets, but I'm not sure. There's a pipe. 3 There's a pipe. A motor. 4 Q. Motor? 5 A. Electric motor. And to the best of my 6 recollection, that's what they looked like. 7 This is a side view; that's top view. 8 Q. Okay. Was it covered? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q . Okay. And then my understanding is that 11 water circulated in the tank? 12 A. Water and mercury. This was a mercury pump 13 tank. 14 MR. PECK: These are the pump 15 tanks? 16 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh (indicating 17 yes). 18 MR. PECK: We need to write pump OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035342 19 tank. 20 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Pump tank diagram will be 21 Number 13. 22 23 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 13 was 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 18 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 marked for identification and 2 copy of same is attached 3 hereto.) 4 MR. PECK: And your chlorine 5 diagram was Number 12? 6 MR. WRIGHT: Number 12. 7 Q. This pipe is what the mercury ran through? 8 A. Somehow the mercury got into the pump tank by 9 pipe, and it was pumped out by a pipe. 10 Q. Okay. Was there a separate pipe for the 11 water? 12 A. I don't recall. 13 Q. Okay. One fellow last week -- and I can't 14 remember exactly who it was. I think it may 15 have been Mr. Hughes -- told me that the -- 16 that there was a layer of water over the OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035343 17 mercury inside the pump tank. 18 A. Yes, that's correct. 19 Q. And that the water came into the tank and 20 then came out of the tank into a drainage 21 ditch that ran, I guess, the length of the 22 building on the ground floor? 23 A. There was drainage ditches on the ground 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 19 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 floor, but again, I don't recall how the 2 water got into it. 3 Q. Okay. Was there always water in the ditch? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. Let's sketch the ground floor. 6 MR. PECK: Do you want legal or -- 7 THE WITNESS: I think I can get it 8 on this. (Witness drawing.) Okay. This is 9 pretty much the ground floor. 10 Q. Slope down to the drainage? 11 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 12 Q. Okay. And then where were the--where were 13 the pumps situated? 14 A. Best of my recollection, they were back on -- OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035344 15 Q. Again, eighteen in a row? 16 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), eighteen. Do you 17 want me to go ahead and put eighteen in 18 here? 19 Q. No. You might just write eighteen pumps. 20 Was there anything else down there 21 except for the eighteen pumps, I mean the 22 thirty-six pumps, and drainage ditch? 23 A. The pump tanks, the bottom half of the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 20 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 decomposers, the drainage ditch. 2 Part of what we call the buss bar 3 was right underneath the bottom aroclor, and 4 that's what carried the current. 5 MR. PECK: What did you call that? 6 THE WITNESS: A buss bar. B-u-s-s. 7 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Tell me again what the 8 decomposers did. 9 A. As the material flowed into the decomposers, 10 we added water to them, and that is -- we 11 kept a check on the material coming out, 12 which is what we adjusted the water to to OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035345 13 keep it at a certain hydromoter reading to 14 make the percent caustic we needed to make. 15 And they also striped the mercury 16 -- I say striped the mercury. Probably not 17 a good term, but anyway, they separated the 18 mercury, and to the best of my recollection, 19 it went from the decomposer back into the 20 pump tank. 21 Q. Okay. So it separated the mercury from the 22 caustic? 23 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 21 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. And sent the mercury back to the pump tank? 2 A. (Witness nods head.) 3 Q. Did any water come off of that operation and 4 go into the drainage ditches? 5 A. I don't remember. 6 Q. Where did the caustic come from? Was there 7 one big tank that fed all of the cells? 8 A. The caustic was a result of the -- 9 Q. -- of the reaction? 10 A. Of the reaction in the cells. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035346 11 Q. I got you. Where did the brine come from, I 12 guess, is what I'm asking? 13 A. Okay. The brine come from the brine area, 14 what we call the brine area. 15 Q. These tanks that you put BTs on? 16 A. Right. In this area. It was pumped in 17 through the cells or pumped up to a head tank 18 and then ran into the cells. 19 Q. Okay. What went into these storage tanks 20 here? Did the chlorine go into those? 21 A. No, this was our caustic. 22 Q. Okay. Can you write caustic ST there? 23 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 22 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. What happened to the caustic after it -- 2 what's in this added section over here? 3 A. We had a control room -- 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. -- and an office and what we call the dryers, 6 which were actually sulfuric acid 7 compressors. I'm just going to put dryers. 8 Q. This is all on the second floor? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035347 9 A. First floor. 10 Q. First floor. Okay. Let's put-- 11 A. Brine area? 12 Q. Well, is that what you called it? 13 A. That's what we called that area. 14 Q. Oh, that area. Yeah, put brine area over 15 here. 16 A. (Witness complies.) 17 Q. And then put -- because I put second floor 18 showing that the cells were in the second 19 floor, so you better put first floor and a 20 little arrow showing that's where the control 21 room and that added in area was. 22 A. (Witness complies.) 23 MR. PECK: What's the CR for? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 THE WITNESS: CR stands for control 2 room. 3 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Yeah. And what was the 4 dryer for again? 5 A. Not being a chemist, from what I understood, 6 it was where we took the moisture from the OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035348 7 chlorine. 8 Q. Okay. So the chlorine gas would go into the 9 dryer -- 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. -- and then come out of the dryer and go into 12 the -- some storage tank -- go directly into 13 some storage tank somewhere? Or did 14 something else happen to itafter that? 15 A. We sent the chlorine, again best of my 16 remembrance, to aroclor. 17 Q. Okay. So chlorine went directly from the 18 chlorine plant to aroclor without having to 19 sit in storage tanks in the chlorine area? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Well, then what was in these tanks that you 22 marked SAT? 23 A. Okay. The saturators? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 24 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Yes. 2 A. This is where we received the salts, either 3 sodium chloride, potassium chloride, those 4 two systems, and we would unload the tank OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035349 5 cars into the saturators, and that's where 6 we'd make the brine solution up. 7 Q. Okay. Where did the water off of the dryer 8 go, do you know? 9 A. There was no water. 10 Q. When you took the moisture out of the 11 chlorine -- 12 A. It was in the sulfuric acid. 13 Q. I got you. Where did the sulfuric acid go? 14 A. Storage tanks. 15 Q. And did you sell that? 16 A. I don't remember. 17 Q. Okay. What were these, process tanks? 18 A. Just process tanks. 19 Q. What happened in them? 20 A. I don't recall. I can't even remember the 21 names of them. 22 MR. PECK: Which tanks are y'all 23 talking about? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 25 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 THE WITNESS: These. 2 MR. PECK: ThePTs? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035350 3 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Some of the 4 process tanks. 5 Q. (By Mr. Wright) What's in this area down in 6 the bottom left-hand comer of Exhibit Number 7 12? 8 A. This was the electrical transformers. 9 Q. Let's write that. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. Electrical area. 12 A. (Witness complies.) 13 Q. And then this room here? 14 A. That was the -- where we changed the AC to 15 DC, and I can't remember what we called it. 16 Q. Another electrical area? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. Let's just write electrical there. 19 A. (Witness complies.) 20 Q. Okay. I'm going to -- well, going back to 21 what we're going to mark as Exhibit Number 22 14, which is the ground floor of the chlorine 23 plant, and I'm going to label it right now 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 26 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035351 1 ground floor and mark it Exhibit Number 14. 2 3 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 14 was 4 marked for identification and 5 copy of same is attached 6 hereto.) 7 Q. You have a slope sloping from the edges of 8 the building down to the drainage ditch? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. By the way, is that what y'all called it, 11 drainage ditch? Mr. Hughes couldn't remember 12 what y'all called it. 13 A. I think we just called it the ditch. 14 Q. Okay. And you have two of them running the 15 length of the building -- 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. -- and the pumps sitting close to the 18 drainage ditches in a line, or actually two 19 lines. And Iassume that the drainage went 20 this way? 21 A. Right. I'll put an arrow indicating flow. 22 Q. Okay. What are these boxes that you've drawn 23 at the -- 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 27 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035352 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Sumps. Would you like me to label those? 2 Q. Yes. 3 A. (Witness complies.) 4 Q. Can you describe those? 5 A. They were a weir, w-e-i-r, type sump, so any 6 of the materials that would flow would go 7 into a -- the heavy material would go into a 8 catch pan here. 9 Then if that should fail, it would 10 overflow into the bottom of this sump, and 11 then the lighter material would go over a dam 12 and go out to the ditch. 13 Q. Okay. Mr. Hughes said that mercury got 14 caught in that, and that y'all would 15 periodically take the mercury out and put it 16 back into the pumps, I guess? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. How often did you have to clean 19 mercury out of the sumps? 20 A. We had to check it each shift, and when we 21 got mercury in there, then we'd have to clean 22 it out. 23 Q. How frequently was that? Was it a daily 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035353 1-800-888-DEPO 28 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 occurrence or weekly occurrence? 2 A. It vary so much, you couldn't really say it 3 was a particular set occurrence. 4 Q. Okay. On average, would it be daily, bidaily 5 -- by "bidaily," I mean every two days -- 6 weekly, monthly, biweekly? 7 A. Again, it would depend on the circumstances. 8 It was not -- it was not that common. I 9 couldn't really say as to, you know, put a 10 specific set of times on it. 11 Q. All right. Would you have to do it at least 12 once every month? 13 A. I just can't recall. 14 Q. You still can't say? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Now, when you say, "checked it every shift," 17 there's three shifts a day; right? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Would you necessarily know if one of the 20 other shift operators had cleaned out the 21 sumps? Was there a record kept of it or 22 anything like that? 23 A. We had to notate it on our operating sheet. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035354 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 29 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. What else did you note on the operating 2 sheet? 3 A. Oh, gosh. The readings of each cell that we 4 were supposed to take readings on that 5 particular time. 6 Q. Once each shift? 7 A. We would take -- they were divided -- the 8 thirty-six pumps were divided so that each 9 shift had responsibility for taking the 10 readings on their particular set of cells. 11 There was another reading we would 12 have to take twice a shift and another 13 reading we would have to take every hour, so 14 there were various readings we had to take at 15 particular intervals. 16 Q. Did you ever have to change the filter on the 17 -- what did you call that thing that 18 separated the mercury from the -- 19 MR. PECK: Decomposer. 20 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Decomposer. Yeah. Did you 21 ever have to change out the filters in the OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035355 22 decomposers? 23 A. The filter was carbon, and yes, the carbon 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 30 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 was changed. 2 Q. How frequently did you have to change the 3 carbon in the decomposers? 4 A. Rarely. I don't recall it happening. But as 5 I said, the time I was there, just rarely. 6 Q. When you did change the carbon in the 7 decomposers, what did you do with the old 8 carbon? 9 A. That, I couldn't tell you. 10 Q. Okay. These drainage ditches, how deep were 11 they? 12 A. The ditch itself? They were curved. The 13 deepest point was approximately eight inches. 14 Q. Okay. So it was kind of like a half moon 15 shape? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Rounded bottom, I guess, would be a better 18 way to say it. 19 A. There you go. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035356 20 Q. How deep was the water that normally ran 21 through them? I mean, was it a stream, or 22 was it just a little trickle? 23 A. It was a continual flow. I would just -- if 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 31 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 I gave a depth, I would have to guess. I 2 know it covered the bottom, but as far as -- 3 Q. Covered the bottom, but it didn't go all the 4 way to the top, I assume? 5 A. No. 6 Q. And how big were the sumps? 7 A. The -- I know a man could get down there and 8 stand in the sump and move around a little 9 bit, so just a guess, looked like about four 10 foot. 11 MR. PECK: Four foot wide? Is that 12 what you're saying, four foot wide? 13 THE WITNESS: I'd say probably four 14 and a half feet by four and a half feet on 15 this particular part. 16 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. 17 A. On the front part. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035357 18 Q. About a four and a half foot square, and then 19 how deep would they be? 20 A. Again, I don't recall ever measuring it. It 21 would have to be a guess. 22 Q. When somebody stood in there, was it over 23 their head for example? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 32 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. No. 2 Q. Waist high? 3 A. I would say waist high. 4 Q. Okay. And I assume that's the deepest part? 5 A. That's the deepest part. 6 Q. All right. I got one more drafting job for 7 you. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. The cells. Can you do a sample cell for us? 10 And I guess we'll need two views, maybe a top 11 view and then a side view. 12 A. Okay. (Witness drawing.) The rectangle I 13 can do. I told you I flunked art school. 14 Q. That's pretty good. Okay. You labeled it 15 Dendra? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035358 16 A. Denora. 17 Q. Denora cells. Okay. We're going to mark 18 this drawing as Number 15, and then let's 19 talk about it a little bit. 20 21 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 15 was 22 marked for identification and 23 copy of same is attached 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 33 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 hereto.) 2 Q. Let's start with the top view, I guess, 3 because that's the easiest to understand. 4 What have you drawn? 5 A. Okay. This is the front. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. This is where the mercury would come in. 8 Q. Okay. And by "front," you're talking about 9 that side would be closest to the middle of 10 the building? 11 A. To the decomposer, yeah. 12 The mercury could come in here 13 under the water. We had water flowing in OWENS 05- 15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035359 14 here. It would go under what we called a 15 weir, which is sort of like an underflow dam. 16 Q. Okay. Now, that was water, not brine in this 17 area? 18 A. I think. Again, I think we put the brine in 19 right here on the weir. 20 Q. Let's write water and mercury there then. 21 A. Can I use those? 22 Q. Yes. H20 for water and HG for mercury. And 23 then what happened? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 34 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Mercury would flow under the weir and form a 2 film all the way down through the cell. We 3 would add the brine right here in this top 4 part. 5 Again, this was a plate coming 6 across. And I'll draw a pipe and label it 7 brine. 8 Q. Okay. So the mercury went in first, then the 9 brine came on top of it? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Did the brine spread out? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035360 12 A. The brine spread out also. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. These long -- two long rectangles are the 15 support beams that supported the carbon 16 plates that were inside the cell. There was 17 a rubber cover-- 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. -- all the way over the cell except for the 20 two end openings. And this is where the 21 electricity went in to actually do the 22 separation of the brine. 23 Q. Okay. Were these support plates on -- well, 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 35 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 maybe the side view will show it. 2 A. Sort of like "I" beams. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And then they have stands that come out. 5 Q. So they sit up above the mercury? 6 A. Correct. They were on the outside. 7 Q. On the outside of the cell? 8 A. Right. Of the rubber cover. 9 Q. Okay. So the rubber cover was actually OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035361 10 underneath -- 11 A. -- this support plate, but it was across the 12 top of the cell. 13 Q. Okay. I'm puzzled. 14 A. Let me see if I can give you sort of a 15 breakdown. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. This is the cell bottom. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. We had mercury flowing across that 20 (indicating). 21 Q. Right. 22 A. And then brine across the top of that 23 (indicating). 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 36 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Right. 2 A. Then we had -- I'm left-handed. I'm sitting 3 on the wrong side of you -- 4 MR. PECK: That's all right. 5 THE WITNESS: Then we had the 6 carbon plates that stuck through. And then 7 over that, we had a rubber cover. And these OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035362 8 rods went down through a seal in the cover. 9 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. 10 A. And these rods were-- 11 Q. What were they attached to? 12 A. They were attached to a metal arm that comes 13 off -- that's these metal arms that come off 14 the support beam, which the support beam 15 rested on the sides of the cell. 16 So I guess actually I should have 17 done it this way - 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. -- put the support beams there. 20 Q. Okay. So it goes all the way to the side of 21 the box basically? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. Okay. Did you ever take the rubber cover 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 37 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 off? 2 A. Maintenance would take it off. 3 Q. When they took the rubber cover off, how did 4 they do it? Did they just have to -- 5 A. They had to undo all the bolts down the sides OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035363 6 and on the front and back and take a crane 7 and lift it up. 8 Q. Okay. What were the dimensions of the cells 9 generally? 10 A. Oh, gosh. 11 Q. Mr. Hughes said he thought they were about 12 thirty feet long; does that sound right? 13 A. And four to five feet wide. They were long, 14 and that sounds pretty close. 15 Q. Okay. Actually, let's write that down. You 16 can do your -- okay. Yeah. Do your 17 approximately sign. 18 A. Okay. 19 Q. Okay. Now, going back to the way the-- 20 everything flowed, did water circulate here, 21 and by "circulate," I mean new water come in 22 and old water go out? 23 A. We kept a continual flow on there because 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 38 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 some of the water would go underneath this. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. So we kept a -- let's see. So approximately OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035364 4 six inches of water. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Over the mercury. 7 Q. So there would be a pipe bringing water -- 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. -- into it, bringing new water in? Was there 10 a drain taking old water off? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. So that water just got added to the 13 brine mixture? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. And then what happened down here at 16 the other end? 17 A. Okay. This was where we had the solution 18 coming out that would come from the cells. 19 Of course we kept water on it also. And the 20 mercury would come out and go through a -- 21 into a -- I guess collection point. 22 The materials from here would go 23 out of the cell would come from here and then 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 39 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 go back down to the decomposer. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035365 2 Q. Okay. So there would be a pipe coming out 3 the bottom of the cell to take the -- 4 A. -- materials back to the decomposer. 5 Q. To the decomposer. And then I assume there 6 was some place to take the chlorine gas off? 7 A. Right. There was a collector, and this part 8 of the rubber cover that would go over to 9 what we called the header which was a 10 collector part. 11 Q. Okay. Let's write chlorine gas. 12 A. CL2 stands for chlorine. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. I'll put the collector. 15 Q. Okay. So everything would go down this hole 16 to the decomposer, brine, mercury? 17 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), to the best of my 18 memory. And I've got this messed up. I'm 19 changing that. 20 Q. The collector was closer to the front? 21 A. It was closer to the front. 22 Q. Okay. Now, tell me again what came off of 23 the -- well, on the decomposer, how big was 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 40 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035366 1 the decomposer? 2 A. That big (indicating). 3 Q. Just for the record, you've got your arms out 4 like you're putting your arms around a tree, 5 and your hands don't quite touch? 6 A. Yeah. I don't know what you would call that. 7 Q. So you could almost hug it all the way 8 around? 9 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 10 Q. Was it round? 11 A. Round, right. 12 Q. How tall was it then? 13 A. I'm not sure because it stood off the bottom 14 floor some on legs, and it stuck through the 15 second floor, so-16 Q. Would it have been taller than a man? 17 A. I don't think so. I would say approximately 18 the same height. 19 Q. Okay. So around six feet tall? 20 A. Approximately. 21 Q. And did the materials coming from the cell go 22 into the top of the decomposer? 23 A. Close to the top. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 41 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035367 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. And then what came out of the 2 decomposer? You said mercury came out of -i 4 A. The caustic that we made and hydrogen gas. 5 Q. So mercury, caustic, and hydrogen gas? 6 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 7 Q. Any water come off of that? 8 A. The water would come off as part of the 9 caustic. 10 Q. Okay. What happened to the caustic then? 11 A. It ended up in the storage tanks. 12 Q. And what happened to it after that? Was it 13 sold? 14 A. The majority of it was sold. 15 Q. What happened to what wasn't sold? 16 A. It was used at the plant. 17 Q. Just out of curiosity, what would you use it 18 for? 19 A. Some of the other processes had to have 20 caustic. 21 Q. Okay. Why don't we take a break? We've 1 22 going about an hour. 23 MR. PECK: Okay. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035368 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 42 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 (Short recess.) 2 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. Now that we've had a 3 break, I promised you before the break that 4 you'd get to walk through your memory of the 5 parathion operation. And so let's try that 6 next. 7 I'm giving you another sheet of 8 paper, and there's a pen. And, again, let's 9 just do a bird's eye view of the layout of 10 the parathion area. 11 12 (Plaintiffs Exhibit Number 16 was 13 marked for identification and 14 copy of same is attached 15 hereto.) 16 A. Okay. I was -- they had what they called two 17 sides to the parathion department, and I'm 18 very unfamiliar with the oneside. I only 19 worked on one side. 20 Q. Let's just do the one side that you remember 21 then. What were the twosides?What was the 22 distinction? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035369 23 A. You sat in the control room. When I first 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 43 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 went over there, you worked your way up on 2 the jobs by seniority, and I never got enough 3 seniority to get above one side. 4 And seriously, that's the way it 5 was. One panel board for one side and one 6 panel board for another side. 7 Q. I mean, were they the same operation? 8 A. They were the same operation. It was just 9 the steps in the process that you would go 10 along. 11 Q. So you handled some steps in the process, and 12 you never did handle the other steps? 13 A. I never did handle the other steps. 14 Q. Okay. Well, do you -- did you understand 15 enough to know just generally what the other 16 steps in the process were? 17 A. Very very general. 18 Q. Let's do that then because it's going to be 19 awkward if we only talk about one half of it. 20 We can go into detail about the OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035370 21 part you remember, but I'd at least like to 22 generally talk about the whole process to the 23 extent you can. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 44 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. And you can just tell us as we go along this 3 is what you remember well and this is what 4 you don't remember very well. 5 A. The ones I'm not familiar with started with 6 the thio acid step, t-h-i-o, and it has a 7 chemical name I can't remember. 8 This was where some of the raw 9 products were brought together to first start 10 in one part of the step to make the 11 parathion. 12 Q. To make the thio acid? 13 A. To make the thio acid. The alcohol, the 14 phosphorus pentasulfide P2S5, and probably 15 some more materials. 16 From that, it went to a 17 chlorination step where they used chlorine to 18 put in what they ended up with thio acid OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035371 19 step. 20 Then from there, it went to another 21 step where they added what we called soda ash 22 into that. And that's in a PNP slurry that 23 had PNP and acetone in it. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 45 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 That was added, and then that's 2 where I really came into being at that time. 3 Q. Okay. I guess what we can do then is let's 4 just draw a box for thio acid. 5 A. Okay. (Witness complies.) 6 Q. And kind of generally lay out where it was in 7 the plant. And we'll just -- we'll just call 8 that the thio acid area, and we won't go into 9 detail on that. 10 A. (Witness complies.) Okay. That's thio acid. 11 I'm putting CL2 for what we call 12 chlorinators. I'm marking four hundred area. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. And again, this is a rough drawing. Four 15 hundred area which was downstairs. 16 Q. Okay. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035372 17 A. Where we done the drumming. 18 Q. Another multilevel building? 19 A. Right. This was a two-and three-story 20 structure. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Primarily, the operating area was open 23 structure. The control room was closed. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 46 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Are you drawing -- is this drawing the ground 2 floor, the second floor? 3 A. This is primarily the second floor. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. Which was the main operating floor. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. As I said, and I don't remember what these -- 8 what we called cubicles. On bottom of the 9 second floor was concrete walls separating 10 three sides with one side -- this side is 11 open. 12 Q. Okay. So the thio acid part of the process 13 was in a cubicle with three sides and then 14 open? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035373 15 A. Right. 16 Q. Okay. And then chiorinators -- 17 A. -- were essentially the same way. We had 18 cubicles on the -- this we called the 19 backside which is on the west side. 20 Q. Okay. Were the chlorinators the same, the 21 two chlorinators, or did theydo different 22 things? 23 A. They were essentially the same. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 47 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. And we had, I think, five of them, but I 3 don't know what the arrangements were in the 4 cubicles. 5 Q. Okay. Were there only three cubicles? 6 A. No, no, there was several. 7 Q. There were a bunch of cubicles? 8 A. There were several cubicles down there. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. I don't recall how many. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. Then this--again, the floors here, the OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035374 13 three floors, these were open, and there was 14 tanks, process tanks, just scattered all 15 through the three levels down through here. 16 Q. You don't remember which process tanks were 17 where? 18 A. Gosh, no. 19 Q. Okay. What part of the process were you 20 mostly involved in then? 21 A. I was involved in the finished goods side. 22 Q. What does that mean? 23 A. That is where we -- the parathion was made, 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 48 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 and we washed it and dried it and drummed it. 2 Q. How did you wash it? 3 A. Very carefully. 4 Q. Little tiny sponges? 5 A. With water. 6 Q. And can you describe that? I mean, was there 7 one machine that did it, and if so, what did 8 you call that machine? And then let's try to 9 describe it. 10 A. I can't remember the name of the tank. There OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035375 11 was a couple of tanks that we would put it 12 through. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Of course we would use water to wash it. 15 Q. Was it a solid by the way? 16 A. It was a liquid. 17 Q. Liquid? 18 A. Right. We're probably skipping around in the 19 process, but as we would receive it from the 20 other part of the process, we would let it -- 21 let the heavy materials settle out. 22 And then we would take it -- we 23 would wash it and dry it in a type of a 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 49 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 horizontal vacuum tank. And from there, it 2 would go to a collection tank, which we would 3 then put it in another storage tank and drum 4 from that storage tank. 5 That's pretty much the process I 6 was involved in. 7 Q. So it got washed in one tank or two tanks? 8 A. A combination of two tanks where we would let OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035376 9 it settle. 10 Q. So it would go into one tank and get washed 11 somewhat in that tank, and then it'd go into 12 another tank -- 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. -- and get washed some more? When you said 15 the solids settled out or the heavier things 16 settled out, what would that be? 17 A. We called it rag, r-a-g. But it was some of 18 the suspended solids that would be in the 19 material left over fromother processes. 20 Q. What solids could it have been? I mean, was 21 itPNPor -- 22 A. I wouldn't even hazard to guess. 23 Q. All right. What did you do with those 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 50 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 solids? 2 A. We'd drain those off to waste treatment. 3 Q. So you'd drain the bottom portion of the 4 tank? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Every -- now, was this a continuous OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035377 7 operation, or was it a batch operation? 8 A. It was both. Parts of it was batch 9 operation; parts of it was continuous 10 operation. For the most part, ours was 11 continuous. 12 Q. How often did you drain the bottoms off of 13 the - 14 A. Once a shift. 15 Q. Once a shift? 16 A. Right. 17 Q. You were there'72 and after, but you don't 18 remember how long? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Do you remember when parathion shut down, 21 what year? 22 A. No, not exactly. 23 MR. WRIGHT: Do you remember, Adam, 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 51 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 was it '84? 2 MR. PECK: Middle'80s. Either'84 3 or '86. I'm not sure which. 4 THE WITNESS: I know in'85 is when OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035378 5 we were told the plant was shutting down. 6 Q. (By Mr. Wright) So it must have been in '86 7 then. But you weren't there at that time? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did they have the parathion incinerator when 10 you were there? Was there an incinerator for 11 parathion plant? 12 A. Yes, we had an incinerator. 13 Q. Can you describe it for me? 14 A. No. That was not part of my job in that 15 area. 16 Q. Did you ever put anything in the incinerator? 17 A. Now, the incinerator that you're talking 18 about -- I'm not sure we're talking about the 19 same incinerator. 20 Q. I know there was one in the parathion area, 21 and then I know there was one up at the 22 landfill, the TP incinerator. 23 A. Okay. I don't know anything about the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 52 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 landfill. 2 Q. Okay. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035379 3 MR. PECK: I think what's throwing 4 him is you said putting into it, and it's a 5 process incinerator, not an open the door -- 6 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't put 7 anything in the incinerator. 8 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. Is the incinerator 9 one that -- well, can you describe the 10 parathion incinerator at all? 11 A. It was round and tall and had a stack. That 12 was really on the other side, so I had very 13 little dealings with the incinerator. 14 Q. Okay. What other incinerators are you aware 15 of that were ever at the Anniston plant? 16 A. It was my background when we talk about 17 incinerators -- I think we may be talking 18 about two different type things. Explain to 19 me what you're talking about. 20 Q. Something where you burn stuff. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Just something that burns things. 23 A. I want to say no with the reservation I can 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 53 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035380 1 change my mind. 2 Q. You don't remember any other incinerators 3 right now? 4 A. No. 5 Q. What about bum pits or bum areas or waste 6 burning or anything like that? 7 A. No. 8 Q. You don't remember? 9 A. The only burn pit I'm familiar with is one I 10 used on the fire training ground. 11 Q. But I assume trash wasn't regularly burned at 12 your burn pit- 13 A. No. 14 Q. -- on the fire training ground? 15 A. No. 16 Q. You never went to the landfill at all? 17 A. One time for about fifteen minutes just to 18 see where it was and what it looked like. 19 Q. Do you remember around what year that was? 20 Was it '60s or '70s or '80s? 21 A. Late '60s, early '70s. 22 Q. What did you see when you went up there? 23 A. Not much really. Just trees and -- I do 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 54 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035381 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 remember seeing a hole, but I didn't go see 2 what was in the hole. That's about it. 3 Q. Was there water in the bottom of the hole? 4 A. I didn't even look in the hole. 5 Q. Okay. Was there anything around the hole 6 other than dirt? 7 A. I don't remember. Like I said, I was there 8 probably not for more than fifteen minutes. 9 Q. Did y'all use therminol in the P2S5 10 operation? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. How -- well, let's walk through the P2S5 13 operation if we can. Can you do that? 14 A. I was there just long enough to shut it down, 15 and it's really going to be sketchy, I'm here 16 to tell you. 17 Q. Well, let's just do the best we can with the 18 understanding that it's going to be sketchy. 19 And let's go ahead and mark the parathion 20 sketch as 17,1 guess. 21 22 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 17 was 23 marked for identification and 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035382 1-800-888-DEPO 55 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 copy of same is attached 2 hereto.) 3 MR. PECK: Yeah. 4 THE WITNESS: Let me back up. When 5 you asked if we used therminol in P2S5. 6 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Uh-huh (indicating yes). 7 A. I want to change that to I'm not sure. 8 Q. Okay. I know they used it at Krumrich 9 because I've seen documents that talk about 10 draining the therminol in the P2S5 operation 11 at Krumrich, and that's why I asked you 12 that. 13 A. Well, I said yes because most times for heat 14 we use it, but then when I get to thinking 15 about it, I don't remember a therminol 16 furnace, and we would have had to have one in 17 P2S5. And I don't recall one being over 18 there. So-- 19 Q. So maybe; maybe not? 20 A. Yeah, maybe; maybe not. I'm not sure. 21 Q. Let's walk through the process, and that may 22 jog the memory some more. 23 A. Okay. Let's see. (Witness drawing.) Okay. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035383 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 56 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 As I say this is going to be very very 2 sketchy. 3 We had a ground unit out here. 4 This is on the south. ThisisP2S5. This is 5 south. 6 Q. Okay. 7 MR. PECK: Good job writing upside 8 down. 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah, if you couldn't 10 see any better that I can. 11 There was a system out here on the 12 ground, and I cannot really remember what all 13 that did do. I know it had a furnace in it 14 or a heater, but I can't remember what it was 15 for. Seems to me it was for the sulfur part. 16 We had a control room. This is the 17 department itself. We had a control room, 18 and we had the reactor over here. 19 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. 20 A. The reactor was -- covered all three stories. 21 And this is where we actually mixed the OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035384 22 sulfur and the phosphorus. 23 Q. So you spent most of your time on the second 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 57 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 floor? 2 A. Most of my time on the second floor. 3 Q. And then how did you mix the sulfur and the 4 phosphorus? 5 A. That was very very carefully. I don't 6 remember. All this is so long ago that when 7 I left, I put everything out of my mind. I 8 lost all that memory. 9 Q. I understand. 10 A. I knew I wouldn't need that especially. 11 Q. Okay. Going back to my original question 12 then on whether you used therminol. You say 13 there was a heat unit of some sort in this 14 ground area? 15 A. Yeah, in the ground area. 16 Q. And you just don't remember whether it used 17 it? 18 A. Again, I think that used natural gas. 19 Q. Okay. What other units used therminol that OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035385 20 you remember? 21 MR. PECK: Throughout the plant, 22 you mean? 23 MR. WRIGHT: Uh-huh (indicating 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 58 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 yes). 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah, the polyphenols 3 area, what we called HB40, uses therminol. 4 Q. (By Mr. Wright) How did it use the 5 therminol? 6 A. We used it on a jacket of one of the reactors 7 to heat the material as we needed to. 8 Q. Did you ever drain the therminol out of that? 9 A. No, I didn't. 10 Q. Do you know if it was drained? 11 A. Yes, it was drained. 12 Q. Do you have any feel for how frequently it 13 was drained? 14 A. No, but I would say rarely. 15 Q. By "rarely," are you talking about monthly or 16 every six months or every year? 17 A. I would probably say three to four years. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035386 18 Something like that. 19 Q. Okay. Did it ever leak? 20 A. Yeah, there were leaks. 21 Q. What part of the plant was that located in? 22 A. That was located in the -- what we call the 23 polyphenol department or biphenyl department. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 59 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. Near the aroclor department? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. Did you work in that area? 4 A. In aroclor? 5 Q. No, in the biphenyl. No, you did not. 6 A. Only as when I was chief. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. But yes, I did work. I was -- while I was 9 shut back, I was trained in the HB40 10 department. 11 Q. Okay. Was that area concreted, the HB40 12 area? 13 A. For the most part. 14 Q. Did it15 A. Or concrete or asphalt. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035387 16 Q. Okay. Did it have drains like we've been 17 talking about, the drainage ditches like the 18 chlorinator area had or like the -- 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And those ran through the sewer system 21 that went on down to the limestone pits? 22 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), yes. 23 Q. Did that area get washed down like the 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 60 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 chlorinator area? 2 A. I didn't. It would get cleaned, and -- yes, 3 it got washed down. I had to stop and think 4 how they did that. 5 Q. Okay. Now, I know the chlorinator area got 6 washed down every shift. 7 A. Now, when we're talking about chlorinator, 8 we're -- at aroclor? 9 Q. Yes, yes. I'm sorry. I forgot y'all had 10 chlorinators in other places. I'm talking 11 about the chlorinator area in the aroclor 12 department. 13 A. Okay. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035388 14 Q. Did the HB40 area get washed down every shift 15 or less frequently than that? 16 A. I couldn't say. 17 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any involvement with 18 testing or sampling waste water for PCBs? 19 A. I sampled waste water from waste treatment 20 area. I would sample that, but I took the 21 samples to the lab. 22 Q. Now, when you say, "the waste treatment 23 area," is that where the parathion waste 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 61 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 water went? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. Did they sample that for PCBs, do you know? 4 A. I don't know. 5 Q. So you drew samples from the waste water 6 treatment area for the PCB waste water, took 7 those to the lab, and you don't know what 8 kind of analysis they ran on it? 9 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 10 the question. I don't think that's what he 11 said, but go ahead. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035389 12 THE WITNESS: Ask me again. 13 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. You took samples from 14 the parathion waste water treatment area? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Took those samples to the lab? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And the lab did whatever the lab does, but 19 you don't know what they were testing for? 20 A. You're right. That's correct. 21 Q. And you did not do something similar to that 22 from the aroclor exposed waste water? 23 A. Personally, I didn't, no. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 62 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Do you know who did, if anybody? 2 A. I remember lab personnel coming over and 3 taking samples, but as to what they were 4 taking samples of and what for, I don't know. 5 Q. Did they do it on a routine basis in your 6 recollection, or do you just remember them 7 every now and then coming to take samples? 8 A. Because we worked shift work, you know, they 9 might have been over there taking samples and OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035390 10 I didn't see them. So as far as whether it 11 was routine or not, I can't say. 12 Q. All I'm asking is: Do you know whether they 13 took samples at 8:00 o'clock every morning or 14 something like that? 15 A. No, I wouldn't have any idea. 16 Q. Okay. You would just remember seeing them 17 from time to time, but you don't remember 18 seeing them do the same thing at the same 19 time every day? 20 A. No -- I wouldn't have been able to do that 21 because I was not always in the same area. 22 Q. Okay. When you saw them taking samples, 23 where were they taking them from in your 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 63 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 recollection? 2 A. That, I don't know. What they had to do was 3 come through the control room and check in 4 with us to let us know they were in the area. 5 Q. Just out of curiosity, why did they have to 6 do that? Was it just safety? 7 A. Safety reasons. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035391 8 Q. So you, as the operator, would know who all 9 was where? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. So really, what you're saying is you knew 12 they came to take samples because they 13 stopped in and told you hey, we're going to 14 be in the area, but then you don't know 15 exactly where they went and what samples they 16 took? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. And you don't remember any of the 19 samples being drawn -- I'm sorry -- and you 20 don't remember seeing any of the samples 21 being drawn? 22 A. No. Ordinarily, I wouldn't have, you know, 23 went -- gone with them to where they were 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 64 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 going or anything. 2 Q. Yeah, I was just wondering if there was an 3 occasion for whatever reason that you recall 4 that you did see them? 5 A. No, I don't recall. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035392 6 Q. Okay. Is HB40 still going? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do they still use therminol in the heat 9 exchanger? 10 A. They did when I retired. 11 Q. As of'98? 12 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 13 Q. Okay. Is it the same therminol, or is it a 14 new and improved no PCB therminol? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 16 the question. 17 Q. (By Mr. Wright) I'm just wondering if it's 18 the same -- if you're using the same stuff 19 that you used back when therminol had PCBs in 20 it? 21 A. This is a different therminol. 22 Q. Okay. Do you know when they quit using the 23 PCB therminol and started using adifferent 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 65 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 therminol? 2 A. No. 3 MR. PECK: Object to the form of OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035393 4 the question. I'm only objecting because I'm 5 not sure if there was non PCB therminols as 6 well as PCB therminols, and so your question 7 assumes that the therminol that was being 8 used originally was PCB therminol. It may 9 not have been. I don't know, and I don't 10 know if this witness knows. 11 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Do you know? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Who would know that? 14 A. If the therminols had PCBs in them? 15 Q. I guess. I would have assumed they did back 16 in the '60s and '70s when PCB -- PCBs were 17 widely used, but, you know, just to satisfy 18 Adam, I guess I probably better figure out 19 somebody to ask. 20 A. It would be someone in a position much higher 21 than what I had. 22 Q. Okay. How do you know today that the 23 therminol does not have PCBs? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 66 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. How do I know? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035394 2 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 3 A. Good question. Knowing the company that I 4 worked for, Monsanto Company, and their track 5 record, I would assume, and I know what 6 assume does -- 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. -- that they had tested it. 9 Q. Okay. So you assume that they don't use PCB 10 therminol anymore, but you don't know that 11 for sure, I guess? 12 A. No. I don't know where they would get it 13 from, but - 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. I mean, I've not seen any tests on the 16 therminol they use in there. 17 Q. I understand. You feel pretty confident they 18 don't use it anymore, and I'll j oin you in 19 your confidence that they don't use it 20 anymore. But neither one of us knows for 21 sure. 22 A. (Witness nods head.) 23 Q. Okay. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 67 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035395 1 MR. PECK: That was a yes? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Tell me about your job as 4 safety and health technician. 5 A. Kept me busy. 6 Q. What kind of stuff did you do? 7 A. Primarily, I was responsible for safety at 8 the plant and the industrial hygiene parts 9 for the employees of the plant. 10 Q. Were you the main man for those two points? 11 A. Yes. I did have a supervisor. 12 Q. Is that Ish Ransaw? 13 A. No, Robert Jones. 14 Q. Okay. Yeah, Ish Ransaw was old days, wasn't 15 he? 16 A. He was a long time ago. 17 Q. Okay. I had a mind block there for a minute. 18 I want to talk about the industrial 19 hygiene part. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. What exactly did you do regarding industrial 22 hygiene? 23 A. The samples, the routine samples, the setup 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 68 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035396 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 of the sampling schedule for industrial 2 hygiene, the making sure that the employees 3 were protected as far as what we knew. 4 Q. By "samples," you mean the tags they would 5 wear? 6 A. The badges, the air samples. 7 Q. What did you air sample for? 8 A. Just about everything in there. Welding 9 fumes, benzene, PNP, PNCB. Now, I lost my 10 train of thought. 11 Q. PNP, PNCB? 12 A. I would have to get the list, but we -- the 13 corporate industrial hygienist and I set down 14 every year and go over the -- our plan for 15 sampling as to how many samples we need, what 16 type samples we need, and then that's what 17 I'd base my sampling on was our plan. 18 Q. Who was the corporate industrial hygienist? 19 A. I was going to tell you until you asked me 20 that. 21 Q. I know how that works. That's all right. If 22 it comes to you, tell me. 23 MR. PECK: What time period are we OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035397 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 69 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 at? 2 THE WITNESS: Within the last three 3 years. 4 Q. (By Mr. Wright) This is pretty current. 5 It's my understanding that Monsanto 6 has a database regarding employee health 7 status. Do you know anything about that? 8 A. I know the -- I know databases. 9 Q. Let me ask a broader question then. That's a 10 good point. 11 What kind of records did Monsanto 12 keep regarding the health status of its 13 employees at the Anniston plant? 14 A. Now, I'm not privilege to look at their 15 health records, medical records, so I know 16 there is a database as far as their medical 17 records are concerned, but I don't know 18 what's in there. 19 Q. I understand. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. Where is the database kept? I assume if s 22 computerized now? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035398 23 A. The records are kept -- hard copies are kept 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 70 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 at the plant doctor's office, and at Monsanto 2 corporate. 3 Q. St. Louis? 4 A. St. Louis. 5 Q. How long have those records been maintained? 6 A. Long as I can remember. 7 Q. Including the '60s and '70s and '80s? 8 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), yes. 9 Q. Do you have any idea when they first started 10 being computerized? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Has St. Louis always had a copy? 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 14 the question. 15 Q. (By Mr. Wright) You can answer. 16 A. Yeah, I have no way of knowing. 17 Q. What's the earliest that you know St. Louis 18 had a copy or St. Louis got a copy of the 19 data? 20 A. Of my records? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035399 21 Q. Yeah, the health records of the people in the 22 plant? 23 A. I was told when I went to work that they kept 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 71 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 copies. 2 Q. That Monsanto Anniston kept copies. Was it 3 your understanding that St. Louis also kept 4 copies? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. So it was your understanding that 7 there would be one set of records there at 8 the plant and a duplicate set sent to St. 9 Louis? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any interaction -- 12 well, is there still a medical department at 13 Monsanto? 14 A. Contract. 15 Q. Okay. You're answering a different -- you're 16 answering -- 17 A. Okay. When you talk medical-- 18 Q. I know. That's what I'm saying. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035400 19 A. -- I'm talking about a doctor and a nurse. 20 Q. I know. Okay. We're talking -- I'm asking a 21 question, and you're answering it right, but 22 that's not the question that I intended. 23 So there's a doctor and a nurse 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 72 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 which is the local Anniston medical 2 department, so to speak? 3 A. Right, and they're contract. 4 Q. Okay. What I'm asking about is the corporate 5 medical department. I mean, they used to 6 call it the medical department. They may 7 call it something else now. It may just be 8 called industrial hygiene. I don't know. 9 That's why I'm asking if there's 10 still a separate medical department and an 11 industrial hygiene department or if y'all 12 call it something else? 13 A. At? 14 Q. St. Louis corporate. 15 A. St. Louis? 16 Q. Yes. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035401 17 A. There was a -- right before I retired, they 18 brought a new physician on board for the 19 medical department. 20 Q. For the corporate medical department? 21 A. For the corporate medical department. 22 Q. Who was that physician? 23 A. Gosh, I can't remember. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 73 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Was George -- did you ever -- George Rousch 2 was the doctor there for a while. Did you 3 ever have any dealings with him? 4 A. No. That name's totally unfamiliar. 5 Q. Okay. Off the record. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Last week, I was provided a 8 report that somebody in St. Louis did 9 evaluating the -- or analyzing the health 10 status of people who worked there from '79 to 11 '89. And it carried a date of 1995, so I 12 assume that would have come down when you 13 were in your safety and health job; right? 14 A. No, that would have been before. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035402 15 Q. Okay. In any event, do you remember that 16 report coming down and being talked about? 17 A. Yes, Ido. 18 Q. How was it presented, if it was presented to 19 the workers? I mean, did y'all have a 20 meeting or slide show or what? 21 A. I'm trying to remember. I think we had a 22 meeting, and I know I've read a copy of it. 23 Q. Have there been any -- well, I was going to 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 74 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 say follow-up studies, but it may not have 2 been necessarily a follow-up study. 3 Have there been any other studies 4 of the health status of workers at the 5 Anniston plant other than that one that came 6 down in '95? 7 A. When you say "health study," is that the one 8 that included the PCB report? 9 Q. Well, I don't know about the PCB report. 10 What are you thinking of? 11 A. I know we had a meeting a few years ago, may 12 have been several years ago, but where they OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035403 13 came -- we had the opportunity to hear 14 someone from St. Louis come down and give us 15 a report on PCBs, what they found in people, 16 what the median PPM was, parts per million, 17 was in people. 18 Q. PCB levels? 19 A. Yeah, PCB levels. 20 Q. Well, let me ask you about that, but that's 21 not really what I'm asking about, but I do 22 want to ask about that. 23 Did everybody get their blood 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 75 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 tested, everybody at the plant for PCBs, I 2 mean? 3 A. Now that, I don't know. Everyone gets their 4 blood tested. 5 Q. Do you know if they've ever systematically 6 tested blood levels of PCBs ever at the 7 plant? 8 A. I don't know what all they did run on the 9 blood, but I know I've had the opportunity to 10 have mine tested for PCBs. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035404 11 Q. Okay. Just out of curiosity, did you take 12 them up on it? 13 A. Sure. 14 Q. What was your level? 15 A. I don't know. It wasn't anything that 16 concerned me. 17 Q. Was it single digits, do you remember? 18 A. No, it was double digits, but, again, I don't 19 really recall. 20 Q. You don't remember whether it was teens or 21 twenties or thirties? 22 A. No. 23 Q. When did you get yours tested? Do you 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 76 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 remember just ballpark? 2 A. Somewhere in the '90s. 3 Q. Was it after -- Adam may object to this, but 4 I don't think he will. 5 I think you'll agree that in recent 6 years there's been kind of a fire storm of 7 discussion about PCBs in and near the 8 Monsanto plant in Anniston? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035405 9 A. Yes, I'm aware of that. 10 Q. Was the blood testing that you volunteered 11 for done before or after the fire storm hit? 12 A. In that period, but I can't remember before 13 or after. 14 Q. All right. But it was near the time that it 15 all started bubbling up? 16 A. (Witness nods head.) 17 Q. Okay. Now, I want to ask you about the 18 meeting. When was the meeting that you were 19 talking about where the guys came from St. 20 Louis and talked about blood levels? 21 A. We had one guy, and as to when it was, I 22 cannot remember. 23 Q. Was it after you had your blood tested? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 77 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. No, I think it was before. 2 Q. Did he -- well, do you remember who the guy 3 was? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do you remember what department he was from? 6 A. No. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035406 7 Q. Do you remember how old he was? 8 A. Not really. 9 Q. Were there materials handed out at that 10 meeting? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What kind of materials were handed out? 13 A. Materials on studies of PCB levels in people. 14 Q. You don't still have one by any chance, do 15 you? 16 A. If s possible. 17 Q. Do you still live in Anniston? 18 A. Jacksonville. 19 Q. Okay. Would you mindchecking, if it's not 20 too much trouble, and seeing if you have 21 either the materials that were handed out at 22 the PCB meeting or this health study that 23 we've been talking about? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 78 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 I think I have a copy of the health 2 study, but if yours is different, I'd like to 3 know that. 4 A. Boy, if you could only see my place. No, I OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035407 5 don't mind checking. 6 Q. Okay. 7 MR. KELLY: Can we go off the 8 record for a minute? 9 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Yeah, Mr. Byrd, if you 12 wouldn't mind just checking your materials, 13 and you can either call the court reporter or 14 Adam may rather you call him. 15 MR. PECK: I gave you my card. 16 THE WITNESS: Right. 17 MR. PECK: There's a direct dial 18 number on there. Just call and let me know 19 what you found. 20 THE WITNESS: Okay. 21 MR. PECK: If you find something, 22 maybe drop it here at Arthur Fite's office. 23 MR. WRIGHT: You can put it in a 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 79 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 manila envelope. 2 MR. PECK: Give it to Jessica, and OWENS 05- 15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035408 3 then we'll deal with it, and I'll send you 4 back yours when we're done. 5 MR. WRIGHT: Just make a Xerox here 6 and he can take his original back. 7 MR. PECK: You can actually get 8 Jessica to copy it in there and then take 9 yours back and leave it with us. 10 Q. (By Mr. Wright) All right. The way we got 11 into that is I was asking you if there have 12 ever been any other health studies other than 13 this one that I think you and I are both 14 talking about that was presented in '95. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. To your knowledge, have there ever been any 17 other health studies or analysis or anything 18 of the worker health status or mortality 19 status at the Anniston plant? 20 A. I have not seen any. 21 Q. Have you heard of any? 22 A. I have heard of some. 23 Q. Where and how did you hear about them? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 80 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035409 1 A. Talking with some of the personnel in St. 2 Louis where they said the database was being 3 used to track, you know, how people were 4 doing. 5 Q. What did they tell you about the results? 6 A. We're a pretty safe healthy plant. 7 Q. Do you remember what they were looking at, I 8 mean, what kind of things they were measuring 9 or counting up or anything? I mean, I know 10 y'all keep tracks of accidents, slips and 11 falls and things like that? 12 A. What I understood from the conversation is 13 that they were looking for anything that was 14 setting trends, and they'd not found any 15 trends for any of the materials. 16 Q. Is it your understanding they were looking 17 specifically at Anniston when they were 18 talking about that, or was this company wide? 19 A. Company wide. 20 Q. Do you know if there's ever been any analysis 21 focussing on Anniston other than this '95 22 study that we talked about? 23 A. Not company wide that I'm aware of as far as 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 81 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035410 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 looking at Anniston as a single plant. 2 Q. Okay. I'm confused by your answer. It may 3 make perfect sense, but I'm confused by it. 4 Can you rephrase your answer? 5 THE WITNESS: Could you read back 6 my answer? 7 (Record read.) 8 Q. (By Mr. Wright) What threw me was the "not 9 company wide." 10 A. Okay. Because I was safety and industrial 11 hygiene, I did set down and look myself. 12 Just took the company employees records and 13 looked into -- and it was not scientific or 14 anything, but I was looking at people I knew 15 that had died, people that I knew were 16 working that I have a knowledge of their 17 health problems and seeing if I could put 18 anything together, which I couldn't, so I 19 just dropped it. 20 Q. Did you write any of that down? 21 A. No. I mean, I made notes and stuff, but I 22 threw everything in the garbage. 23 Q. So you don't have any of those notes? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035411 1-800-888-DEPO 82 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. No. 2 Q. And you're saying nobody asked you to do 3 that, you just -- 4 A. No, just something that I pursued on my own. 5 Q. Were you thinking -- when you were doing 6 that, were you including people that had 7 worked there back in the aroclor days? 8 A. The ones I was familiar with, yes. 9 Q. Okay. Let me show you -- because frankly, 10 I've been trying to do something similar to 11 that myself. Let me show you a list that -- 12 this is something I needed to do with you any 13 way. 14 This is a list that we've been 15 putting together of people that worked in the 16 aroclor area. And we're up to forty-two 17 people now. And you're on there I believe. 18 Yeah, here you are. You're number sixteen. 19 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 20 Q. And what they've done is, of course, it's 21 pretty self-explanatory. They've listed the 22 people that they remember. A"D" means that 23 they know they're deceased. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035412 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 83 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2 Q. These "Ls" mean they were laborers in the 3 aroclor plant, and there's a couple other 4 notations that are kind of hit and miss, 5 foreman, supervisor. 6 So can you take a little while to 7 look at this list, and if there are any 8 people that you canthink of thatshould be 9 added, let's add them, and if there are any 10 people that are deceased that aren't marked 11 as deceased, let's add those too. 12 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. We can go off 13 the record for this. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 Q. (By Mr. Wright) You mentioned when we were 16 off the record that you thought of at least 17 one more guy? 18 A. I have Sam Caffee who no longer works at the 19 plant. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. Buster Ford who worked there, and he was OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035413 22 killed in a car wreck, and then a supervisor 23 from Louisiana with big feet. I can't 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 84 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 remember his name. 2 MR. PECK: I have an idea. Why 3 don't you write his new names in red? 4 MR. WRIGHT: All right. Let's do 5 that then. 6 Q. On Exhibit Number 11, we're going to go ahead 7 and put forty-three, let him be Sam Caffee. 8 And I'll let you write it. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. Does he still live in the Anniston area? 11 A. Last I heard, he was in the Anniston area. 12 Q. And then Buster Ford? 13 A. And Buster, of course, was his nickname. 14 don't know his true name. He was the one 15 that was killed in an automobile accident. 16 Q. When did that happen? 17 A. 70s. 18 Q. Oh, long time ago. 19 A. Yeah. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035414 20 Q. Okay. And we won't put the supervisor with 21 big feet. 22 A. That's all I can remember. 23 Q. Did you see anybody else that is deceased 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 85 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 that's not noted as deceased? 2 A. None that I'm aware of. 3 Q. Okay. Do you know of anybody that's on this 4 list that has had cancer, either somebody 5 who's still alive or somebody who's deceased? 6 A. Specifically, no. I don't know what they 7 died from. 8 Q. Okay. But I'm talking about even the guys 9 that are still alive or the guys who are dead 10 and you don't know what they died from. Are 11 you aware of anybody that has any form of 12 cancer? 13 MR. PECK: From the list? 14 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Yeah. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Which ones? 17 A. I'm sorry. I can't tell you. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035415 18 Q. Do you know that because of seeing their 19 medical records? 20 A. And personal confidence. 21 Q. They've told you in confidence? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. Can you tell me how many there are? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 86 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Two. 2 Q. I want to go back real quickly to your time 3 in aroclor department. What kind of leaks 4 and spills do you recall there being in the 5 aroclor department? 6 A. Piping leaks and two overfilled vessels. 7 Q. Where were the overfilled vessels? 8 A. They were in aroclor department. They 9 were -- 10 Q. I just wondered specifically were they 11 draining the still bottoms or -- 12 A. No. They--one a valve was left open, and 13 the other was pumped into a tank that was 14 supposed to have been empty but wasn't. 15 Q. Do you have any feel for what year those OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035416 16 were? 17 A. They would have been in the'70s. 18 Q. Okay. Not too long before the plant shut 19 down? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. You mentioned pipes leaking. I know the 22 pumps leaked at the packing glands. 23 A. Correct. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 87 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. What else? 2 A. Occasionally, you would get a leak around the 3 threads on a pipe. 4 Q. Okay. Anything else you recall specifically? 5 A. On the solid aroclor, we were trying to make 6 a clear solid aroclor, and a couple times 7 they, what we called, burped out. 8 Q. What did that mean? 9 A. They reacted with the caustic we were adding 10 to them, and they just burped out. Some of 11 the material -- 12 Q. Where did it burp out from I guess is what -- 13 A. Where we were adding the caustic too, an OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035417 14 opening in the vesselitself on top of the 15 vessel. 16 Q. Okay. Anything else? 17 A. No, that's it. 18 Q. Were you ever involved in the loading 19 operations, loading the tank carsor the 20 trucks? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What kind of spills do you remember from 23 those operations? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 88 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Did you just remember somebody 2 else? 3 A. Yes, I wanted to check on this and see. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. I don't see a Dan Childs on here. Also 6 there's another name on here. 7 Q. Let's use the red pen. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. Is he alive or dead? 10 A. Alive. 11 Q. Still in the area? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035418 12 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes), yes. I'm sorry. 13 Q. That's all right. No, I'm glad you did that. 14 The question I was asking related 15 to the loading area, loading the cars or 16 tanker trucks. Do you remember spills or 17 leaks in that area or during that process? 18 A. No spills; a leak I remember, and that's it. 19 Q. Where was that leak? 20 A. That leak was on the loading line going into 21 the tank car. 22 Q. Now, it's my understanding those tank cars 23 were washed down at least on the outside from 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 89 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 time to time. Do you recall that? 2 A. I don't recall washing them down on the 3 outside. 4 Q. And they were cleaned on the inside? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. How were they cleaned? 7 A. With -- the laborers would go in and use rags 8 to clean them out. Mop them out and then 9 swab them out. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035419 10 Q. Would they use mops or just rags? 11 A. Rags. 12 Q. What happened to the rags after they used 13 them, if you recall? 14 A. It would just be supposition on my part. I 15 don't recall what they did with them. 16 Q. All right. When you were a trainer, who did 17 you train? 18 A. Primarily all the employees in the plant. 19 Q. What did you train them? 20 A. Most of my training had to do with OSHA 21 regulations, DOT regulations. Some of the 22 operating procedures. 23 Q. Do you remember when the sump was put in on 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 90 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 the sewer system? 2 A. In3 MR. PECK: In the aroclor? 4 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Yeah. There's a little bit 5 of confusion in my mind. One witness said 6 that he thought the sump was down by the 7 limestone pits, and the other witness thought OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035420 8 the sump was closer to the aroclor department 9 itself? 10 A. We had a sump close to the aroclor 11 department. 12 Q. Do you remember when that was put in? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you remember who put it in? 15 A. No. 16 MR. PECK: Off the record. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 Q. (By Mr. Wright) What PCB products were you 19 making in -- well, when the liquid part of 20 the plant shut down, what kind of product -- 21 what products were you making? Was it the 22 whole range of the aroclor that you'd always 23 made? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 91 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. The ones I remember making was 1242, 1246, 2 and, again, long time ago, but that's what I 3 remember right offhand those two. That was 4 the numbers. 5 Q. 1242, 1246? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035421 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. Do you remember making 1221? 8 A. I remember the number, but I don't remember 9 if I made 1221. 10 Q. What about 1254? 11 A. Yeah, made 1254. 12 Q. 1260? 13 A. I remember the 1260, but I can't remember-- 14 if that was the one that used a melting 15 point, then I made it, but I can't remember 16 which one that was. 17 Q. Okay. Same for 1268? Would the answer be 18 the same? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Okay. Now, again, I was asking you which 21 ones you were making in -- at the time the 22 aroclor plant shut down -- I'm sorry -- at 23 the time the liquid part of the aroclor plant 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 92 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 shut down. 2 A. The only ones I recall is the 42 -- and what 3 did I say -- 42 and 46,1 think. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035422 4 Q. Was it 46 and not 48? Because to be honest, 5 I don't remember 46. 6 A. Could have been 48. 7 Q. And then the solid, y'all called that 5460? 8 A. Correct. But I didn't make the solids. I 9 was just on the liquid chlorinators. 10 Q. What was your understanding of why the 11 aroclor plant was shutting down? 12 A. I understood that aroclor was shutting down 13 because it had been determined that it was an 14 environmental hazard. 15 Q. When did you understand that, at the time it 16 was shutting down? 17 A. In that time frame. 18 Q. Okay. When is the first you heard about 19 aroclors or PCBs being outside the Monsanto 20 Anniston plant boundaries? 21 A. This is a guess on my part, but I'm going to 22 say late '80s. 23 Q. When you heard about it, how did you hear 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 93 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 about it? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035423 2 A. That, I don't recall. 3 Q. How did you hear what you heard about the 4 reasons for the aroclor plant shutting down? 5 A. Rumor mill at first, and if I remember 6 correctly, we had plant wide meeting. 7 Q. Do you remember the plant wide meeting, or 8 are you just kind of thinking that you 9 probably did? 10 A. That's what I say. Best of my recollection, 11 we had a plant wide meeting. 12 Q. But you don't remember the meeting? 13 A. No, I don't remember the meeting. I don't 14 remember who the plant manager was at that 15 time. 16 Q. Are you sure there was a plant meeting? 17 A. No, not positive. That's why I say best of 18 my recollection. 19 Q. And if there was a plant meeting, you don't 20 remember anything that was said in it? 21 A. No, and it may have been a department 22 meeting. 23 Q. Do you ever remember the aroclor operation 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 94 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035424 1 changing significantly in any respect? 2 A. I remember we had some new chlorinators put 3 in. 4 Q. Do you remember when that was? 5 A. It was while I was there, but I don't really 6 recall the years. 7 Q. Other than new chlorinators, did the way 8 y'all did business ever changesignificantly 9 from when you startedtowhen you finished? 10 A. As to how we made the aroclor? 11 Q. Yeah. 12 A. No. 13 Q. In any way? 14 A. Other than the -- when I was talking about we 15 lost some of the solid aroclor over the top 16 when we was trying to make the clear aroclor. 17 I remember that. 18 Also remember that we had to stop 19 using some type of a soap. 20 Q. Some type of a soap? 21 A. Yeah, when we were cleaning up. Dew Jet 22 (phonetic), and I'm not sure about the 23 spelling of that. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 95 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035425 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Anything else? 2 A. No, that's the changes I remember, some of 3 the things -- 4 Q. Just out of curiosity, why did they change 5 you from using one soap to a different soap? 6 A. Well, in fact we couldn't use soap. 7 Q. Oh. Why was that, just out of curiosity? 8 A. Environmental from what I understand, from 9 what I remember. 10 Q. How did the soap affect the environment? 11 MR. PECK: Object to the form. You 12 can answer. 13 Q. (By Mr. Wright) You can answer. 14 A. I assumed, and, of course, I'm just making an 15 assumption, it was carrying the aroclor out 16 with it. 17 Q. When was that? When was that change made? 18 A. Late'70s. 19 Q. You mean late '60s? You said late '70s. 20 A. Yeah, I think--it had to have been in the 21 '70s because I remember using thatstuff. 22 Q. Was it while the aroclor plant was still in 23 operation? OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035426 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 96 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. But it was in your second go round in 3 aroclor? 4 A. No, first time in aroclor. 5 Q. That's right. You were in aroclor '69 to 6 '72. I'm sorry. 7 A. It was during that time frame. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Early '70s. 10 Q. Okay. Where was the soap used again? 11 A. We used it in a steam wand. 12 Q. Oh, to wash the area down? 13 A. Yeah, wash the area down. 14 Q. I got you now. 15 A. I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. It was used for 16 cleanup purposes. 17 Q. So you still steam cleaned; you just didn't 18 use soap anymore? 19 A. Right. 20 Q. Had they always been using soap as far as 21 know? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form. OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035427 23 THE WITNESS: When I got over 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 97 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 there, they'd been using soap, and then we 2 stopped. 3 Q. Okay. Any other changes that you recall? 4 A. No, that's the only ones I recall. 5 Q. Okay. Thank you very much for your time, 6 sir. Sorry it went a little longer than I 7 thought it would. 8 (Deposition concluded at 12:10 p.m.) 9 FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035428 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 98 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA ) 4 CALHOUN COUNTY ) 5 6 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the above and 7 foregoing transcript was taken down by me in 8 stenotype, and the questions and answers thereto 9 were transcribed by means of computer-aided 10 transcription, and that the foregoing represents 11 a true and correct transcript of the testimony 12 given by said witness. 13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither 14 of counsel, nor of any relation to the parties to 15 the action, nor am I anywise interested in the 16 result of said cause. 17 18 OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035429 19 20 21 TAMMY R. JENNINGS GREGORY Notary Public, State of Alabama 22 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: 9-12-2001 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO OWENS 05-15-1988 Byrd, Willie Francis.txt[8/22/2017 3:37:23 PM] HARTOLDMON0035430