Document k9N01yazvV9qO4n9MnwMLE8kE

FILE NAME Cape Asbestos CAPE DATE 1984 Aug 22 DOC CAPE107 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Legal - Deposition of Anthony John Wyndham Owsten Legal - Tibbs Case Exhibit 5 10 11 12 13 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 H. CLACR LAK RK < SURT REPORTER -_ OF 3216959 3216959 CTRONICALLY IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF ALLEGHENY COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA CIVIL DIVISION ANTHONY A BARBER et al ee? Plaintiffs See Set ee et PITTSBURGH CORNING CORPORATION ee et al et Defendants ee V. et eet COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA Se et al ge Additional Defendants Se et CTRONICALY SKALC FILED - rdf 2023 Oct 18 10:31 AM - Set et ee LOUISE CAULKINS GLADYS A HASKINS et Plaintiffs et ee V. ee PITTSBURGH CORNING CORPORATION ee et al te Defendants ee RICHLAND G.D. Nos 79-21544 81-20381 81-20383 - COMON PLEAS - et ee CASE ee DARLENE SMITH Executrix of the et Estate of Raymond D Smith eet 2023CP4001759 203CP41759 Deceasec Me Plaintiff ee v Me et PITTSBURGH CORNING CORPORATION ee et al ee Defendants ) ee Deposition of Mr ANTHONY JOHN WYNDHAM OWSTON produced sworn and examined the Messrs Linklater 22nd day & Paine of August 1984 at the 59-67 Gresham Street offices London of England Marion Thompson deputising for Walter H Clark of 24 Chancery Lane London WC2A 1LS England acted as reporter 1 2 4 6 2 1 7 2 15 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 25 ef 24 L 25 26 L 27 L 28 W. H. CLARK COURT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y on behalf of Anglo American of South Africa North America ELECTRONICALY Inc. - did I get that right A I think so yes ELCTRONIAY MISS JACOBY Either Inc. or Ltd. FILED MR MCGRANN -- did you conduct any business on behalf - 2023 of Charter while you were in the United States Oct A No I can't recall it I may have done We were 18 an office that was available to anybody in the broader 10:31 AM group I hope it is understood as to what we mean by - the broader group I mean it is Anglo Minorco or it may be Q Why don't you give us the parameters of that group A It is any company that is effectively within overall control of the Anglo American Corporation whatever RICHLAND - broader | COMON the PLEAS We PLEAS - were there as a representative office and I am quite sure there would have been occasions when something would 203CP41759 have been asked of a very trivial nature just getting an annual report for somebody or something like that I can't recall anything we did that was important to the business of Charter Almost everything was important to the business of Anglo American Q Let me go back to what you were talking about before I go on about the broader group Could you list for me what you consider to be the companies which would be contained within that broader group MR POLAK Now or then MR MCGRANN Let us start with then and then we will move 30 2 [ | [ 10 11 12 13 1 14 [ 15 16 [ 17 i 18 1 19 20 21 [ ts 22 * 25 os 24 [ 25 26 1 28 W. H. CLARK URT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y on to now ELECTRONICALY A Then the Anglo American Corporation De Beers and Charter Consolidated were the three essential companies ELCTRONIAY and the significant point about Charter was that it was FRED outside South Africa and therefore it was the base by which I think - 2023 they hoped that they would develop their international Oct business i.e. external to South Africa Since then 18 a number of things have changed They have established 10:31 a very large holding company in Bermuda Minorco which AM - now actually conrols their interest in Charter RICHLAND Q Whose interest Anglo American's - A Well it is Anglo and De Beers I can't answer COM ON who actually controls If you ask me who controls Anglo American Is it De Beers or Anglo American I don't PLEAS know the answer to that I think Minorco is undoubtedly PLEAS - the new constituent in what I would regard as the broader group and the Anglo American end of it through Minorco 203CP41759 in North America is something that I am simply not aware of these days It is a territory unto itself They have also developed a major business in Brazil which we don't participate in Q What is the name of that business A Ambraz is the name by which I know it but it may have a fuller corporate name Q So you would consider today that the major constituent companies of the broader group would be Minorco Angio American De Beers and Ambraz A I think that is right 31 [ 10 11 av . 2 peu 3 4 15 16 : 17 18 19 er 20 nl 21 | 22 25 = 24 L 25 26 1 27 28 W. H. CLARK * RT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y Q Is there anything else that you can think of within ELECTRONICALY that broader group A Obviously inside South Africa there are dozens of ELCTRONIAY subsidiaries in all kinds of activities I am very far remFILo ED - from it so I am really not the person to answer those 2023 questions The only other area we have not touched on Oct is Australia where the Anglo American have got an exploration exploration activity which has cost a great deal of money over the 10:31 AM years I think that is it - RICHLAND Q Each of these companies that you have been mentioning as members of the broder group would have considerably - numbers of subsidaries of their own would they not much as Charter does COMON MISS JACOBY If you know PLEAS PLEAS A I just don't know I can speak for Charter - CASE obviously I can't speak for Ambraz I can't give you the answer 2023CP40 1759 203CP401759 MR MCGRANN through the course of your career you have been at least with Charter and Anglo American at 203CP401759 different times Is that correct A Yes 0 Isn't it true from your personal knowledge of your employment with those two companies that each had a considerable number of subsidaries in which the business was internally run A Yes Q I take it what you are saying is you are not sure whether De Beers Minorco and Ambraz are run the same 32 2 1 [ 5 1 10 11 12 13 [ WO | WO ON ON | 18 - 19 20 21 22 v 23 24 25 26 27 28 W. H. CLARK OURT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y way Is that right ELECTRONICALY A Yes Q If I can focus your attention back to the 1966-69 EFLCITRLONIEADY period again could you tell me what the principal interests of Anglo American were in the United States at that time - A The outstanding interest was the Hudson Bay mining 2023 Oct and smelting investment which was bought from the Witney 18 trustees and ultimately was transferred to Canada but 10:31 at the time I went out there it was still the New York AM - based investment because it was acquired from the Witney family RICHLAND While I was there there was a very long negotiation - for the acquisition of what added up to a controlling COM ON interest in Englehard Minerals and Chemicals That had started as a private transaction between the two individuals Charlie Englehard and Harry Oppenheimer on a personal PLEAS - basis but it had reached by the time I got to New York a point where they were bringing the public companies 203CP41759 into it That took up a fair amount of my time Apart from that as I said earlier it was very much a Jack- trades job You did what you were told and it could be important or it could be meaningless I couldn't predict what it would be from day to day There were a very great number of people passing through the office on general business for the group One would help them if one could 0 What would be the business of the Hudson Bay Mining investment A I would say mining and smelting It operated a 33 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ae 18 | 19 20 21 22 25 24 L 25 26 | 27 1 28 H. CLARK 3. IT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y RECROSS EXAMINATION by MR MCGRANN ELECTRONICAL Y Q Mining How could you evaluate the Cape investment of witbout analysis of its subsidaries in 1965 Central ELCTRONIAY A Because Cape had a market quotation It was that FILED - superficial We were simply asked to look at the basic 2023 concept of putting these companies together and as far Oct as Cape was concerned it was straightforward you just 18 took the market price 10:31 Q All you did was take the quoted market price A-M A Yes nothing further and that was the same with RICHLAND all the other assets It was that rudimentary - A short recess was taken CROSS EXAMINATION by MISS JACOBY COMON Q Mr Owston in your testimony you spoke about the broader group PLEAS Could you give us a background description - of the involvement of Anglo American in mining syndicates 203CP41759 over the years A That is about the toughest question I have had to answer all day I think the answer to your question 203CP401759 is that the South African mining industry has always been on a syndicate basis They have spread the risk by getting together even if they don't like one another to open a new mine and that has been transported around the world in the activities of the Anglo American Corporation They have taken stakes in almost all the continents that I can think of not necessarily with a view to control but simply spreading risk in the belief that something is going to come up trumps one day Certainly so far 65 l 6 ww [ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ic 18 19 20 21 22 24 L 25 [. 26 27 1 28 H. CLACR LAK RK URT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y ELECTRONICALY as Charter Consolidated is concerned they have been ELCTRONIAY a partner in most of the exploration activities we do We run it ourselves but they would take for example in Spain a quarter of the total cost they take half of what is going on in Yorkshire Cleveland They have been involved in Cornwall -- how wise they are -- and FILED - not 2023 Oct there is a pattern across the whole scene 18 Q What call a partnership -- am I right -- between 10:31 AM Charter and Anglo American - RICHLAND A There is a partnership in Cleveland which is a 50:50 partnership There is a partnership in Spain - which is 75:25 Q Any others COMON PLEAS A I can't think of any others Q At the time Charter was formed were there more - or fewer partnerships than those A There would have been more Don't ask me how many please but there would have been more I mean Charter at that point in 1965 was very much to be the international arm of the Anglo American Corporation and 203CP41759 for various reasons that I don't think we need dwell on here that role has dissolved Minorco now effectively performs that role Q Are there any other respects besides these partnerships we have been talking about in which the relationship between Anglo American Corporation and Charter has changed over the years during which you have been associated with those entities 66 pee, g tmn ecet senme-. eemmpectarcmmm. . eman- eats Uanarse fi mi dontt iee\.% at erin. AZU eee ee pte. 2 3 4 1 [ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 2 Tre 1 2 L 25 26 27 L 28 -- W. H. CLARK DJURT DJURT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y A Yes I would think that 1979 was a watershed in ELECTRONICALY ELCTRONIAY the sense that every five or so years they throw all the cards up in the air and we get a new deal Undoubtedly FILED in 1979 with the divestiture by Charter of its strategic FILED - 2023 holdings in Anglo American De Beers and Anglo American Oct Investment Trust which in turn has an interest in De Beers I think that was a very major step and I think 18 that since sitting on then it is absolutely clear the board and the executive to me anyway committee that 10:31 AM Angloi RICHLAND American interest interference whichever word you want to use in the activities of Charter is minimal I am not - saying they don't care but what they are effectively saying is You run your own show That is a great departure COMON PLEAS because I think prior to that it was clearer You can see that evidence by the chief executive The chief - executives prior to 1979 have all been South Africans I am not saying that is good or it is bad but Mr Clarke 203CP41759 is entirely English and is doing his own thing so I think it is a very different ballgame Q Are there any employees today of Anglo American at 40 Holborn Viaduct A I don't think so Q Is it a fair statement to say to summarise your testimony this morning about 40 Holborn Viaduct and Anglo American that 40 Holborn Viaduct is only a registered office for Anglo American MR MCGRANN I object to the form of the question A Yes I think that is fair 67 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 N N N 23 24 L 25 26 1 27 [ 28 W. H. CLARK CIRT REPORTER ELECTRONICAL Y MISS JACOBY Does Anglo American pay a fee to Charter ELECTRONICALY for the services which you testified Charter renders to it ELCTRONIAY A Yes it does FILED Q I believe it is unclear from your earlier testimony - 2023 do you know what percentage of Rand Mines CMF owned in Oct 1965 18 A I don't know the answer to that 10:31 AM Q Do you know whether Charter owns any interest - in Rand Mines today RICHLAND A I don't think they own anything at the moment - MISS JACOBY I have no further questions FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION by MR PETRAMALO COMON Q What was the motivation for the divestiture and the Watershed in 1979 PLEAS - A The straight answer is I don't know because it was way above my head 203CP41759 Q What have you heard A I think -- or can I put it this way my speculation would be -- MR POLAK Don't speculate A Well I don't know is the answer MR PETRAMALO Well go ahead and speculate MR POLAK No there are to be no guesses here MR PETRAMALO Why not MR POLAK Because we don't guess on the record MR PETRAMALO The scope of the inquiry is anything that might lead to the discovery of admissible evidence and 68