Document k6MmvYwO8brxXDxgKY2jZ1O8q

ORIGINAL SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------x ALAN HARVEY et al., : Plaintiffs, v. No. 312112 ABB LUMMUS GLOBAL, INC., et al . , Defendants. x Washington, D.C. Thursday, May 2, 2002 Deposition of RICHARD THOMAS a witness, c ailed for examination by counsel for Plaintiffs, pursuant to notice and agreement of counsel, beg inning at approximately 1:05 p.m., at the law offi ces of Jones Day Reavis & Pogue, 51 Louisiana Av enue, Northwest, Washington, D.C., before Shari R. Broussard of Beta Reporting & Videography Services, notary public in and for the District of Columbia, when were present on behalf of the respe ctive parties: (202) 638-2400 Nationwide Court Reporting & Videography Services There is No Substitute for Quality 1-ftnn-W-RFTA (703) 684-BETA 1 APPEARANCES: 2 2 On behalf of Plaintiffs: 3 GILBERT L. PURCELL, ESQUIRE Brayton Purcell 4 222 Rush Landing Road Novato, California 94945 5 (415) 898-1555 6 On behalf of Defendant R.J. Reynolds: 7 DENNIS L. MURPHY, ESQUIRE Jones Day Reavis & Pogue 8 North Point, 901 Lakeside Avenue Cleveland, Ohio 44114 9 (216) 586-3939 10 PAUL S. REYERSON, ESQUIRE Jones Day Reavis & Pogue 11 51 Louisiana Avenue, Northwest Washington, D.C. 20001-2113 12 (202) 879-3939 13 On behalf of Defendant Philip Morris: 14 CHRIS A. JOHNSON, ESQUIRE Shook Hardy & Bacon, L.L.P. 15 333 Bush Street, Suite 600 San Francisco, California 91104-2828 16 (415) 544-1900 17 18 * * * * * 19 20 21 22 (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 3 1 CONTENTS 2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE 3 Counsel for Plaintiffs 4 4 THOMAS DEPOSITION EXHIBITS: 5 No. 1 - Disclosure of Expert Witnesses 12 6 No. 2 - Curriculum Vitae 12 7 8 ***** 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 4 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 Whereupon, 3 RICHARD THOMAS 4 was called as a witness and, having been 5 first duly sworn, was examined and testified 6 as foilows: 7 EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS 8 BY MR. PURCELL: 9 Q Would you state your full name for 10 the record, please? 11 A It's Richard Dean Thomas. 12 Q What's your current business 13 address? 14 A 1307 Dolly Madison Boulevard, 15 McLean, Virginia. 16 Q Your business phone? 17 A (703) 734-1454 . 18 Q I take it that you are you 19 familiar with the deposition format; is that 20 fair to say? 21 A Yes . 22 Q I believe that to be the case and (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 5 1 so I'm going to dispense with the typical 2 admonitions. Dr. Thomas, except just to 3 remind you that even though we are 4 informally gathered here at the Jones Day 5 office in Washington, D.C., the oath that 6 you just had administered to you by the 7 reporter to tell the truth, the whole truth 8 and nothing but the truth in response to all 9 of my questions here today has the same 10 force and effect as the oath you would give 11 in a court of law to do the exact same 12 thing. You fully appreciate all of that, do 13 you not? 14 A Yes . 15 Q Dr. Thomas, when were you retained 16 in the Alan Harvey matter? 17 A The beginning of this year in 18 January. 19 Q Who retained you? 20 A It was Jones Day, Ithink Dennis 21 Murphy actually was the contact with me and 22 Paul Reyerson also talked with me about it. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 6 1 Q Did you understand both of them to 2 be calling on behalf of a particular 3 company? 4 A Yes, I did. 5 Q What company? 6 A R.J. ReynoldsTobacco. 7 Q Do you have any understanding that 8 any other company has retained you in this 9 case ? 10 A I don't have any understanding of 11 any other company that maybe retained me. 12 My understanding is I work for Jones Day 13 through -- through their contract or the 14 work they're doing for R.J. Reynolds. 15 Q To your knowledge, for example, 16 you are not here on behalf of attorneys who 17 represent Philip Morris in any way, correct? 18 A As far as I know, that's correct. 19 Q Do you have a current CV handy? 20 A I actually turned one in. I think 2 1 it was transmitted. I didn't bring it with 22 me . (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 7 1 MR. MURPHY: Gil, I have copies of 2 that that I brought and I also have a copy 3 of the transmittal of the CV to your office. 4 MR . PURCELL: Yeah, I didn't 5 MR . MURPHY: That's the same 6 letter that had the 12:30 start time 7 confirmation, 8 MR. PURCELL: I didn't receive 9 this, but may I have a copy of this at some 10 point today? 11 MR. MURPHY: Yeah, I think you can 12 actually keep that one. We've got, you 13 know, the faxed copy that was sent to your 14 office and I think if you need us to work 15 off of that, we can probably do that. 16 BY MR. PURCELL: 17 Q Doctor, counsel has been kind 18 enough to hand me a 20-page document 19 entitled, "Dr. Richard Thomas Curriculum 20 Vitae." I'm going to hand that to you for a 21 moment. Is that a true and correct and 22 accurate copy as of April of this year? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 A Yes, as far as I'm aware. 8 2 Q Have you prepared any written 3 reports in the Harvey matter? 4 A No, I have not. 5 Q Do you have any handwritten notes 6 that you've taken when you've reviewed any 7 materials in the case? 8 A No. 9 Q Have you brought with you a file 10 in the case? 11 A Yes, I have. 12 Q Is that what's before you? 13 A That's what I have here. 14 Q May I see that? 15 A Sure. That's just a blank piece 16 of paper. 17 Q You've handed me a manilla folder 18 about a quarter inch thick titled, "Harvey 19 deposition, Jones Day office, WDC, 2002." 20 Is this your complete file in the so-called 2 1 Harvey matter? 22 A Yes, it is. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 9 1 MR. MURPHY: I mean to be clear, 2 we've got some other materials that we 3 brought in response to the deposition 4 notice, so I just want to make sure that 5 whatever the definition of file is, there 6 are other materials here. 7 MR. PURCELL: Sure. 8 BY MR. PURCELL: 9 Q This file contains the disclosure 10 of expert witnesses from the Shook Hardy 11 firm in this case, the pages specific to 12 Dr. Thomas pages 18 and 19, the Notice of 13 Deposition in our case, an invoice dated 14 April 8, 2002 directed to Mr. Reyerson at 15 Jones Day, a summary of testimony. I take 16 it this would be a summary of depositions 17 and trials you've testified in? 18 MR. MURPHY: I'm going to object 19 at that point because you listed a lot of 20 things and you made a characterization about 21 the disclosure of experts being from the 22 Shook Hardy firm. It's my understanding (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 10 1 that's on behalf of Philip Morris and R.J. 2 Reynolds. 3 MR. PURCELL: Yes, it is. It's on 4 the Shook Hardy letterhead. 5 MR. MURPHY: I just wanted to make 6 sure it was clear that was just a Philip 7 Morris disclosure. 8 BY MR. PURCELL: 9 Q This page here, "Richard D. Thomas 10 Trial Deposition Testimony," is that a 11 complete list of the depositions and trials 12 you've given in tobacco? 13 A That's a recent list. It looks 14 like that's '98 through 2002. 15 Q Then a document entitled, "Expert 16 Witness Report References," which is 14 17 pages long. What is this part of your file, 18 doctor? 19 A That's a list of references that I 20 had put together recently of -- that cover 21 many of the topics that we'll be talking 22 about in this particular case. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 11 1 MR. MURPHY: Gil, I don't want to 2 jump in and offer too much, but maybe it 3 will help out that in response to the 4 deposition notice it had asked for some 5 things that Dr. Thomas didn't have 6 necessarily for this case, but he has done 7 federal reports in the past that called for 8 both lists of testimony and somewhat lists 9 of reliance materials and so we actually 10 helped him take that information and get it 11 to you for this case since you asked for it. 12 In other words, there was no existing lists 13 simply listing testimony. We pulled it out 14 of a federal report. 15 MR. PURCELL: That's fine and 16 thank you. What I'd like to do is mark this 17 entire file as Exhibit 1 and attach a copy 18 of it to the deposition and mark his CV as 19 Exhibit 2, attach a copy of it to the 2 0 deposition. I'm sure we can make 2 1 arrangements for that later. 22 (Thomas Deposition Exhibit (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 12 1 Nos. 1 and 2 were marked for 2 identification.) 3 BY MR. PURCELL: 4 Q Let me ask you, doctor, about your 5 invoices, part of Exhibit 1 there appears to 6 be an invoice number 7281 for $49,050.40 7 dated in March of this year and a second 8 invoice 7282 for 40,660.67. Are these your 9 only invoices, these two, generated in the 10 case thus far? 11 A Yes . 12 Q You'vereviewed your designation 13 of the areas you would likely testify in 14 this case? 15 A Yes . 16 Q Is itaccurate? 17 A Yes . 18 Q Is there any area generally that 19 is not mentioned in the designation that you 20 believe you will also testify to? 21 A Why don't Ilook at the 22 designation out of the folder and -- I (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 13 1 don't -- I think the designation pretty well 2 describes the general areas that I would 3 expect to testify in. I don't see -- I 4 can't think of any additional areas that are 5 not included in here. 6 Q Put that back in there if you 7 would. 8 A Okay. 9 Q If I understand your background 10 correctly, you began testifying or working 11 with attorneys for R.J. Reynolds 12 approximately 1985? 13 MR. MURPHY: Objection. Vague and 14 compound. 15 THE WITNESS: I actually started 16 working in answering some questions for 17 attorneys that worked for Jones Day 18 about '84, possibly even '83, so it's - 19 it's approximately the right time frame, but 20 it's a little bit earlier. 21 BY MR. PURCELL: 22 Q Could you indicate for me exactly (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 how that came about, that type of work? 14 2 A I was approached by Mr. J.C. 3 McElveen, who worked for Jones Day here in 4 the Washington office, who asked me if I 5 would be willing to review some scientific 6 papers for him that dealt with lung cancer 7 and experimental issues involving toxicology 8 and pathology and provide him some opinions 9 about how well the studies were done and so 10 forth. 11 Q Had you worked with him 12 previously? 13 A No. 14 Q What's your understanding of how 15 he came to knowof you? 16 A Well,he indicated in the 17 conversation that he had been looking for 18 experts or an expert in this area, that he 19 had talked with several other scientists 20 that he knew both in the Federal Government 2 1 and outside the Federal Government, at 22 universities, for example, and my name had (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 been repeatedly recommended to him. 15 2 Q Did he enumerate more specifically 3 what exactly he wanted you to do in any kind 4 of writing? 5 MR. MURPHY: Let me just object 6 and it's more a caution. I mean I think 7 this question is fine, but I don't want to 8 go too far into matters that might be, and I 9 don't think we're there yet, but matters 10 that might be consulting and not testimonial 11 expert work, so I just want to caution that 12 we may be getting there and at some point 13 we'll cut it off. But I tink the question 14 is okay. 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q You may respond. 17 A Can you ask the questionagain? 18 What was your question? 19 Q Did he ever enumerate more exactly 20 what he wanted you to do in writing? 21 A It's been some years ago, but not 22 that I remember. In the '84 time frame that (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 16 1 we're talking about he would typically call 2 and say that he wanted me to take a look at 3 a reference, did I have a copy of it and 4 often I did, so I would take a look at the 5 reference and then talk with him further. 6 Q In that first discussion did he 7 broach the topic of going through a 8 historical review of literature in any way? 9 A No . 10 Q When did that task first arise? 11 A Well, I don't -- again, I don't 12 know the exact dates. My best estimate 13 would be probably around 1987 that rather 14 than looking at one or a few individual 15 scientific references, I was asked to look 16 at a whole field of research. 17 Q How did he communicate the field 18 of research he wanted you to review? 19 A As I remember right, it was, 2 0 again, verbally by telephone or possibly in 21 a meeting. 22 Q How did he describe the field to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 you? 17 2 A I don't know how he described the 3 field. It's been too long ago. We're 4 talking about over, certainly over 15 years 5 ago. I specialize in cancer research and in 6 not only understanding ways of treating 7 cancers to try to cure the cancers, but 8 mechanisms that may cause cancer and so 9 usually his questions were in those areas of 10 my current research. 11 Q Was he in any way more particular 12 to your recollection? 13 A Not to my recollection. Like I 14 say, there -- the area of research involves 15 use of laboratory animals, it involves the 16 use of humans in epidemiologic and clinical 17 studies and to the best of my recollection 18 there was a discussion and we looked at 19 several of those. 20 Q Do you regard yourself to be 2 1 expert in the field of epidemiology? 22 A Yes, I do. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 18 1 Q More specifically would that 2 include cancer epidemiology? 3 A Yes . 4 Q More specifically still would that 5 include the epidemiology of asbestos - related 6 diseases to occupationally exposed workers? 7 A I haven't done as much work on - 8 for several years on asbestos as I have on 9 some other substances such as tobacco and 10 then metal and air pollution and some of 11 those types of materials, but I'm familiar 12 with the asbestos literature and some of the 13 issues surrounding asbestos. 14 Q Do you believe there to be a 15 synergistic effect in terms of cancer risk 16 between occupational exposure to asbestos 17 and cigarette smoking? 18 A From the research studies that 19 I've examined, this has been an area that 20 has been debated, but it appears there is 2 1 not a synergistic effect between the two. 22 Q What article or research do you (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 base that view on? 19 2 A Well, they -- the asbestos 3 literature goes back some time, certainly 4 back to Irving Selikoff, back to some of the 5 work that was done in Europe, so there is a 6 long history of -- of research in this area. 7 Specifically on synergism, I believe that 8 Selikoff was the first one in his 1968 9 publication that proposed there may be a 10 synergistic effect between cigarette smoke 11 and asbestos exposure from an occupational 12 standpoint. 13 There was some difficulty in 14 replicating those studies and in about 1978 15 Hammond and Selikoff were able to replicate 16 most of the findings in Selikoff's earlier 1 7 study, however, many of the studies such as 18 the Lindde study and several of the more 19 recent studies that have looked at this 20 issue, including the National Academy of 2 1 Sciences, have found that, from an 22 epidemiological standpoint looking at (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 20 1 relative risks, that the effects are either 2 additive or at most multiplicative but not 3 synergistic. 4 Q What National Academy of Sciences 5 article or publication are you referencing 6 that would say that? 7 A Well, the National Academy has 8 done several. The one that I worked on, was 9 most involved in was the one that's called, 10 "Nonasbestos Form Fibers." It was published 11 in about 1994, as I remember. It's in the 12 list of publications on my CV. 13 Q Could you locate that on 14 Exhibit 2? 15 A Sure. I don't see it right off in 16 here. The other one that dealt with the 17 same issues as the carcinogenic mixtures, 18 which deals with exposure to mixtures and 19 materials and also references the 2 0 nonasbestos form document, and that 1s 2 1 in 1992 and that was also done at the 22 National Academy of Sciences. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 21 1 Q Could you give me an entry number 2 or page where that's referenced? 3 A I'll give you a page number. It's 4 on page 18, or page 19, I'm sorry, and it's 5 called, "Carcinogenic Mixtures." 6 Q Do you remember anything about the 7 National Academy of Sciences' reference, 8 title, anything that would help us locate 9 it? 10 A Oh, it's -- like I say, it's 11 probably in this list here. If not, it's - 12 it may be in this other list that's in here. 13 Like I say, it's called, "Nonasbestos Form 14 Fibers." That's the title of it. 15 The first reference as to complex 16 mixtures is actually on page 17 and that's 17 the one that specifically deals with 18 asbestos and there's a discussion of 19 cigarette smoking in there and that's 1988. 2 0 Q To be clear, I'm interested in the 21 references that would tell me that there are 22 additive and multiplicative effects not (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 22 1 exponential synergistic effects as between 2 occupational exposure to asbestos, clinical 3 asbestosis and/or cigarette smoking. 4 MR. MURPHY: I just have an 5 objection because I think it's vague from 6 where we started. Do you mean any article 7 or the article on his CV or the articles in 8 his disclosure? 9 BY MR. PURCELL: 10 Q The articles he's relying upon for 11 his testimony in that regard. 12 A I would say a good representative 13 article is, "Complex Mixtures: Methods for 14 In Vivo Toxicity Testing," page 17, halfway 15 down the page. 16 Q For the record that's page 17 of 17 Exhibit 2? 18 A Uh-huh. 19 Q Doctor, you've taken a few minutes 20 to continue looking. Are you able to find 2 1 anything else? 22 A Well, several of these deal with (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 that conclusion in that that's a pretty 23 2 widely-accepted conclusion in the scientific 3 community now, but I think one of the best 4 analysis that have been done is in the 5 "Nonasbestos Form Fibers" document or in 6 this "Complex Mixtures" document that I've 7 mentioned on page 17. 8 Q Are there any other articles that 9 come to mind that will tell me that? 10 A Well, I didn't really prepare on 11 asbestos to discuss those types of 12 interactions today, but like I mentioned 13 the 1999, I believe it's the Lindde article 14 that's been published deals with it in some 15 detail. There have been several authors 16 that have looked at the interactions over 1 7 the years, particularly in the last few 18 years, and have come to the same conclusion. 19 Q Name three authors that you 20 believe come to the same conclusion. 21 A Well, besides the National Academy 22 of Sciences, Lindde is another one, I (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 24 1 believe Hans Peter Weitchi has published in 2 this area as well. 3 Q Again, the question is more 4 specific. Not that someone has published in 5 the area, but someone who has published data 6 or the opinion that you just articulated. 7 A Well, like I say, there have - 8 there have been -- put down Hans Peter 9 Weitchi, David Rimsky. You had asked for 1 0 three. I think that's three. National 11 Academy of Sciences. The Environmental 12 Protection Agency is another agency that's 13 reviewed it and has come to the same 14 conclus ions. 15 Q Where does the EPA indicate 16 there 1s not synergy? 17 A I'd have to go back and look at 18 their report. I can't tell you right now 19 off the top of my head. It's probably in 20 the regulatory recommendations for the 21 standard. 22 Q What standard? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 25 1 A Well, EPA has tried to come up 2 with a standard and -- and basically has 3 come to the conclusion that no -- their 4 recommendation is that no level of asbestos 5 exposure is safe and they have justification 6 for that. 7 Q When you say "the standard" 8 though, what are you referencing 9 specifically? 10 A I'm referencing the publication of 11 federal registry that EPA has discussed 12 asbestos. 13 Q What do they describe the standard 14 as that you're referencing? 15 A They say that no exposure to 16 asbestos is safe. I guess you can say that 17 that standard is zero, if that's what you're 1 8 asking. 19 Q Is that your opinion? 2 0 A But that's not -- that's not 21 exactly what they said. 22 Q Do you agree with that? Is that (202) 633-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 your opinion? 26 2 A No, I don't agree with that. 3 Q What level of exposure to asbestos 4 occupationally is safe? 5 A I don't think we know what level 6 is safe, as -- as you put it. I do know 7 that we're all exposed on a day-to-day basis 8 to small amounts of asbestos and we're not 9 going to either have the effects of the 10 asbestos such as the fibrosis occur in our 11 lungs or are we going to get cancer from it. 12 So the way EPA deals with a standard where 13 they figure no level is safe, then the level 14 is based on limited detection of the 15 instrumentation and so that's how they said 16 it. If the level of detection is set at, 17 say it's set at .01 fibers per cubic 18 centimeter, then that would be the level 19 that they would measure to. 20 Q Getting back to my question, do 21 you have an understanding that the EPA 22 believes .01 fiber per cc is a safe level of (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 exposure of asbestos in the work place? 27 2 A That's not what I said, no. 3 Q Do you believe .01 fibers per cc 4 poses any significant risk to 5 occupationa1ly-exposed workers? 6 A I don't know that I could answer 7 your question. Like I say, I haven't 8 reviewed asbestos in sufficient detail for 9 this deposition to try to -- to address 10 occupational exposures per se. 11 Q Do you know what the Federal OSHA 12 position on that is? 13 A From memory I believe Federal OSHA 14 position is .1 fibers per cubic centimeter. 15 Q If that's the case, what do they 16 say about exposures at that level in terms 17 of risk? 18 A Well, that's the level that they 19 have set for an 8-hour day for a 40-hour 20 week and they're saying that that level is 2 1 safe or acceptable. 22 Q Do they say that it poses a (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 significant risk to workers? 28 2 A I don't know. I'd have to go back 3 and look at the -- like I say,, I haven't 4 done that before this deposition. That's 5 just based on my memory. It may be .01, but 6 I think it's .1. 7 Q Whether it's .1 or .01 fibers per 8 cc, do you subscribe to that view, that 9 exposures at that level poses a significant 10 risk to workers? 11 A I don't know. I haven't looked at 12 it for some time. I would have to think -- 13 Q Well - 14 A I'm sorry. If I could finish. 15 I'd have to think about what the actual 16 levels are that were exposed on a day-to-day 17 basis and then look at the epidemiologic 18 studies to determine whether I see an 19 increase in the risk of either fibri11olytic 20 changes in the lung or the development of 2 1 cancer and -- and decide for myself what I 22 think is safe and I haven't done that. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 29 1 Q I thought you had finished your 2 answer. You lowered your voice. I 3 apologize. 4 A Okay. 5 Q Is that an aspect of risk 6 assessment in the Harvey case as to which 7 you're not going to be offering opinions? 8 A I'm going to be talking about the 9 risks that Mr. Harvey would have from 10 asbestos exposure occupationally based on 11 the epidemiologic studies that I've reviewed 12 in addition to other types of risk factors. 13 Q Focusing on that, then, I presume 14 you're prepared to talk about that in 15 Harvey's case, correct? 16 A Yeah, about the risk factors that 17 Mr. Harvey would have. 18 Q What's the incidence of idiopathic 19 malignant mesothelioma in the United States? 2 0 A I don't know, not off the top of 21 my head. Like I say, I haven't reviewed 22 that before this. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 30 1 Q In your earlier answer where you 2 believed everybody suffers some background 3 level of exposure to asbestos and none of us 4 are going to get cancer from it, did you 5 include in that mesothelioma? 6 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 7 of the question. 8 THE WITNESS: I don't think I even 9 understand your question. If you want to 10 restate it. It seemed like to me you're 11 going from a very vague answer to a very 12 specific conclusion and I don't understand 13 what you're trying to ask. 14 BY MR. PURCELL: 15 Q I'm trying to ask you if you 16 intended to include mesothelioma in your 17 opinion that nobody is going to suffer 18 cancer from background exposure levels to 19 asbestos that you believe everyone suffers. 2 0 A You know, again, that's a very 21 vague question and you're mixing 22 mesothelioma and cancer and those are (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 31 1 actually two different diseases. We do have 2 a certain amount of spontaneous disease in 3 the population, although diseases such as 4 mesothelioma are fairly rare. 5 Q Doctor, I assure you I'm not 6 mixing up anything about those diseases. 7 What I want to know is did you include 8 malignant mesothelioma in your prior answer, 9 yes or no? 10 A I don't know what -- what you're 11 referring to now. What prior answer? That 12 people in the United States have a risk of 13 developing lung cancer? 14 Q I'll try and be very clear again. 15 Earlier you allowed as how in your view 16 everybody suffers a background level of 17 exposure to asbestos and yet in your view 18 none of us, I believe was your phrase, will 19 ever get cancer from it. Do you recall 2 0 that ? 21 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 22 form. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 {103) 684-2382 32 1 THE WITNESS: What I said was that 2 statistically, based on a very low level of 3 background exposure, that, statistically, 4 none of us will get lung cancer from 5 asbestos. That doesn't mean that there 6 isn't a small proportion that may develop 7 some spontaneous disease, which may have 8 been tied either indirectly or directly to 9 the asbestos. So generally we're exposed to 10 a lot of different substances that are 11 carcinogenic, including asbestos, including 12 chemicals such as vinyl chloride even in 13 this room, and we're not statistically going 14 to develop disease from that. 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q If I understood you now, you were 17 intending to address your earlier remark 18 just to lung cancer and not toward malignant 19 me sothe1ioma; is that correct? 20 A I'm talking about the development 2 1 of lung cancer, yes. 22 Q Thank you. Would that be true for (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 33 1 all major histologic types of lung cancer? 2 A Would what be true? 3 Q Your view about risk of lung 4 cancer from background exposures. 5 A I don't know what view you're 6 zing other than we know that 7 there's a background exposure to a lot of 8 different substances and we have a, 9 generally, small background of people who 10 get lung cancer but most people don't. 11 That's my view. I don't know what you're 12 characterizing, if you're characterizing 13 that different than that, but that's what my 14 view is. 15 Q Do you believe that secondhand 16 smoke has been demonstrated to be a risk 17 factor for lung cancer? 18 A No. 19 Q What's the highest relative risk 20 or SMR you've seenreported? 2 1 A For SMR? 22 Q For secondhand smoking. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 A For secondhand smoking. 34 2 Q Lung cancer risk. 3 A The typical levels that I see 4 reported are between 1.1 and 1.4. The 5 higher levels tend to be around 1.4. 6 Q What levels would you need to see 7 for you to believe a risk has been 8 established? 9 A I typically like to see levels 10 that are twice backgrounds, so until I see 11 risks that are approaching at least two, 12 which is twice background, I'm not convinced 13 that they're not simply a statistical 14 anomaly. 15 Q Do you get a magazine called 16 "Chemical Week"? 17 A Yeah, I think that's one that I 18 receive. 1 9 Q For how long have you received 2 0 that ? 2 1 A I couldn't tell you, it's. Been 22 for several years. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 35 1 Q What trade organization is behind 2 that journal, if you know? 3 A I think that that's American 4 Chemical Society, but I'm not sure. 5 Q Are you a member of that society? 6 A Yes . 7 Q Your Ph.D. is in chemistry, 8 correct ? 9 A That 1s correct. 10 Q In your assessment what are the 11 top five most hazardous chemicals in R.J. 12 Reynolds products, tobacco products? 13 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 14 form . 15 THE WITNESS: The top five 16 hazardous products? 17 BY MR. PURCELL: 18 Q Most hazardous chemicals. 19 A I don't know how you're defining 20 "hazardous" because it's defined differently 21 depending on which agency we're talking 22 about. I think I'll take my jacket off. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 36 1 Q How do you define "hazardous," 2 doctor? 3 A Well, I define it differently 4 depending on whether I was doing project 5 work for EPA or for Food & Drug 6 Administration or the World Health 7 Organization to try to answer your question. 8 Q Well, let's use the WHO 9 definition. 10 A Well, typically "hazardous" is 11 where a material is tested first in 12 laboratory animals and shows an increase of 13 either one or several diseases in what's 14 called a dose response curve that supports 15 that increase. If that occurs, then that 16 material is called hazardous and it can be 17 ranked based on its relative hazard compared 18 with other materials. 19 Q Using the WHO definition of 2 0 hazardous, what are the five most hazardous 21 chemicals in R.J. Reynolds tobacco products? 22 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 form . 37 2 THE WITNESS: You'd have to tell 3 me which definition you want to use in WHO. 4 WHO actually has different ones as well. 5 BY MR. PURCELL: 6 Q Would that change which of the 7 chemicals would be the top five? 8 A Yes, it would. 9 Q Give me an example. 10 A Well, isoflavones, for example. 11 are found in plant material and are found in 12 tobacco. Isoflavones may or may not produce 13 tumors in laboratory animals. For example. 14 in one test you may get tumors produced, in 15 another test renal tumors especially, in 16 another test you may not. So if the 17 definition is that two animal species are 18 required to show hazard, then one would say 19 it was not hazardous and then if another one 2 0 says only one animal species is required. 21 then they would define it as being 22 hazardous So you need to -- you need to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 38 1 have a definition and also the ranking of 2 relative hazard. You know, are we talking 3 about the most hazardous, the least 4 hazardous. Water is hazardous, but it's not 5 a high hazard. 6 Q Can you give me an example, as you 7 understand it, of working WHO definitions of 8 hazardous that would take a chemical out of 9 the top five most hazardous chemicals in 10 R.J. Reynolds products? 11 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 12 of the question. 13 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I don't --do 14 you want to restate that? I think you've 15 got two double negatives -- you've got two 16 negatives. I don't understand what you're 17 asking me now. 18 BY MR. PURCELL: 19 Q Let me ask it this way then so 20 it's clear: Give me the top five most 2 1 hazardous chemicals in R.J. Reynolds 22 tobacco products under any WHO definition. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 39 1 MR. MURPHY: I have the same 2 objection to the form. 3 THE WITNESS: You want to be more 4 specific as to what you're referring to as 5 "products"? 6 BY MR. PURCELL: 7 Q Cigaret tes. 8 A So you're going tocall all 9 cigarettes products? 10 Q Sure. 11 A You're -- it'sverydifficult to 12 try to answer your question. I'm trying to 13 answer it because hazard doesn't tell you 14 anything about whether it's going to produce 15 a toxic effect. That's based, again, on the 16 dose and -- because, generally, in 17 cigarettes, it varies from cigarette to 18 cigarette, there are several hundred to, in 19 fact, several thousand substances, many of 20 which have been classified, for example mas 21 carcinogens, but they're at very low 22 concentration. So from the hazard (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 standpoint they're carcinogens, but the 40 2 exposure is very low. So it's -- it's 3 actually quite hard to answer your question 4 because I'm -- without combining hazard with 5 exposure, you don't really have a risk, so 6 you typically don't judge things based on 7 hazard, you judge them based on what risk 8 they pose. 9 Q Let me ask you then to enumerate 10 the top five in terms of risk. 11 MR. MURPHY: I object if that's 12 the end of the question and it's vague and 13 ambiguous. 14 THE WITNESS: Yeah, could you tell 15 me which risk you're talking about? 16 BY MR. PURCELL: 17 Q Relative risk for lung cancer. 18 A Well, the problem with cigarettes, 19 and I'd like to answer your question, but 20 the problem with cigarettes is we don't know 21 the answer to that as yet and that's why, 22 for example, it's very difficult if -- to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 design a safer cigarette because we don't 2 know quite what to reduce in a cigarette. 3 If you use common sense and you say, well, 4 the amount of tar in the cigarette is in 5 some way related to the level of lung 6 cancer, then by reducing the tar, common 7 sense would tell you that you're reducing 8 the risks, but since we don't know what in 9 cigarette smoke may be causing an increase 10 in lung cancer in humans, I don't know how 11 to answer your question because that's not 12 known, 13 Q Is tar a chemical? 14 A Tar is a mixture of chemicals. 15 Q My question asked for chemicals. 16 Does that help you in your ability to answer 17 my question? 18 A No, it doesn't help because, 19 again, it's based on the concentrations of 20 the chemical to understand risk and in 21 cigarette smoke we haven't been able to 22 identify a specific chemical or five (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 42 1 chemicals that explain an increase in lung 2 cancer in humans. 3 Q When did R.J. Reynolds first try 4 to reduce any chemical in their cigarette 5 products? 6 A Yeah, X don't know the answer to 7 that. I don't know the internal workings of 8 how RJR designed their products and when 9 they decided to, say, try to reduce tar in 10 cigarettes. 11 Q Is nicotine a chemical? 12 A Yes . 13 Q When did R.J. Reynolds first try 14 to reduce nicotine in their products? 15 A I don't know. 16 Q In April of 1999 you were asked 17 about whether or not you had requested that 18 you be provided with internal company 19 documents and in the Engle case you 20 testified that you had not been provided any 21 internal Reynolds company documents nor had 22 you asked to be provided any internal R.J. (202) 38-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703} 684-2382 43 1 Reynolds company documents, what I'd like to 2 ask you is have you since asked to be 3 provided those or been provided those? 4 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 5 form. 6 THE WITNESS: First of all, you're 7 characterizing something that I may have 8 said in testifying in Engle and I'm not sure 9 that that's accurate. I think - 10 BY MR. PURCELL: 11 Q Is there some doubt in your mind 12 about that? 13 A No, I think, though, the way to 14 answer your question, and I assume the 15 context that that was in was I for the Engle 16 case or did I during the Engle case ask to 17 see internal company documents and the 18 answer is no. 19 Q Have you since then? 20 A I have not seen internal company 21 documents except as part of trial exhibits 22 that were being used by plaintiffs in a (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 trial that I was testifying in, but I 44 2 haven't received company documents separate 3 f rom that, 4 Q I understand. I appreciate that 5 clarification. Other than what documents 6 you may have been shown during trials, have 7 you ever asked to have access to all 8 in-house or internal company documents from 9 R.J. Reynolds concerning risks of tobacco 10 smoke ? 11 A No, I've not. 12 Q Do you have any intentions of 13 doing that as you sit here today? 14 A No. 15 Q What have you reviewed in the 16 Harvey matter? 17 A The materials that are in the box 18 that I brought based on the request that you 19 provided. 20 Q What is included in the box? 2 1 A These are medical records, 22 depositions, some associated records. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 45 1 There's some insurance records, there are 2 some expert reports. That's pretty well 3 what's in the box. 4 Q Is everything in the box 5 everything that you reviewed specific to the 6 Harvey case? 7 A Everything that I received to 8 review specific to the Harvey case is in the 9 box . 10 Q Are there any notes on any of the 11 documents in the box? 12 A Not from me, 13 Q Do you dispute any of the medical 14 diagnoses in the case? 15 A Again, that's kind of vague. I'm 16 not quite sure how to answer that in that 17 there were somewhat different diagnosis that 18 were given from time to time. I mean 19 there's -- there's some inconsistencies in 2 0 the medical records themselves, so I have 21 looked at the pathology myself on Harvey and 22 come to the conclusion as to what I think (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 pathology describes and I think it's 46 2 consistent with what most of the physicians 3 that treated him, you know, diagnosed him as 4 having. 5 Q What would that be? 6 A Adenocarcinoma of the lung. 7 Q Have you formed any opinion as to 8 the causes of his adenocarcinoma of the 9 lung? 10 A Well, I tend to talk less about 11 causes and what the risks are or the things 12 that may have been a cause statistically, 13 but I have come to a conclusion about things 14 that he was exposed to that would be a risk 15 for him developing adenocarcinoma of the 16 lung. 17 Q I want to be clear. Is it true or 18 is it not true as to whether you are going 19 to be offering an opinion as to the causes 2 0 of his adenocarcinoma of the lung? 21 MR. MURPHY: Object to the form. 22 THE WITNESS: I think as stated in (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 47 1 the disclosure, all the things I'm going to 2 describe are the risk factors associated 3 with the development of the disease. 4 Whether you want to define that as cause or 5 not, that's up to you, but those are 6 typically how scientists refer to this 7 information and that's how I'll be 8 t e s tifying. 9 BY MR. PURCELL: 10 Q Actually the first enumerated 11 numerical item in your designation says, 12 "Causation of cancer," et cetera. Are you 13 going to be speaking about the causation of 14 Mr. Harvey's cancer? 15 A To what -- to whatever extent we 16 understand it. I'm just looking for - 17 here's the disclosure. 18 Yes, as indicated in the 19 disclosure, I'll be talking about the 20 causation of cancer, mechanisms by which 21 cancer develops, that scenario that I 2 2 specialized in for over 25 years. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 Q What were the causes of 48 2 Mr. Harvey's adenocarcinoma of the lung in 3 your opinion? 4 A Well, as indicated in the 5 disclosure, the general risk factors 6 associated with the development of disease 7 including lung cancer include the 8 occupational exposures and environmental 9 exposures, lifestyles, family history, and 10 those are the types of areas that I will be 11 talking about for Mr. Harvey and will be 12 describing the risk factors associated with 13 those. 14 Q Risk factors are different than 15 causation, correct? 16 A Well, yeah, causation is a very - 17 that's true, causation is a very vague term 18 that means a lot of different things. Risk 19 factor is a statistical term that relates it 20 more directly to a compilation. 21 Q I'll be happy to move on if you 22 indicate you are not going to be testifying (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 about causation or the causes of 49 2 Mr. Harvey's adenocarcinoma of the lung 3 recognizing you intend to speak about risk 4 factors for his lung cancer. 5 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 6 of the question. 7 THE WITNESS; The way you have 8 stated it risk factors describe for us the 9 various aspects of how a disease may have 10 been caused, so from that standpoint I will 11 talk about Mr. Harvey about how his disease 12 may have been caused. 13 BY MR. PURCELL: 14 Q What were the causes of 15 Mr. Harvey's lung cancer in your opinion? 16 A Well, again, 1 -- I will describe 17 his occupational exposures. 18 Q To what? 19 A He -- well, he -- first he had 20 various positions, but he worked on a 2 1 diesel-powered submarine in the engine room 22 for approximately two years, of which he had (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 50 1 asbestos exposure, had probably exposure to 2 diesel and some other fumes as well. In 3 fact, it's noted in the depositions that he 4 had those exposures. Then he worked for 5 more than 37 years as a mill right and 6 during that time would have had occupational 7 exposures to several materials that may have 8 led to the development of his adenocarcinoma 9 and those are the main ones that I would 1 0 focus on in that that's most of his working 11 life. 12 Q Doctor, I'm looking for material 13 substances. Are you saying diesel fumes and 14 asbestos and nothing else? Are you 15 intending to include other items, other 16 materials, other compounds, other chemicals? 17 That's what I'm trying to determine. 18 A To answer your question about 19 specific substances that he would have been 2 0 exposed to in these occupations, asbestos is 21 one , 22 Q Again, I don't mean to interrupt (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 you, but I am not interested in an 51 2 articulation in what he may have been 3 exposed to. My question is farther down the 4 road. I'm asking in your considered 5 professional opinion what were the causes of 6 his lung cancer? That's all I'm asking. 7 MR. MURPHY: Let me object to the 8 form of the question. 9 THE WITNESS: Well, all I can do 10 is tell you what he was exposed to and what 11 his risks were of developing lung cancer and 12 that I don't know how his lung cancer 13 specifically developed, but I do know that 14 he had high risks for the development of 15 adenocarcinoma from his occupational 16 exposures and from other potential risks 17 that -- that should be considered in 18 considering how he may have developed or how 19 he developed adenocarcinoma. 20 BY MR. PURCELL: 21 Q Exposures to what? 22 A Well, I tried to answer the (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 question and you cut me off, so -- 52 2 Q Doctor, you know, I haven't cut 3 you off. I've been very cordial, as have 4 you, and I suggest we keep it on that level. 5 MR. MURPHY: I think we can keep 6 it cordial, but he did start to mention 7 substances and you indicated that that's not 8 the answer you were looking for and you went 9 on . 10 BY MR. PURCELL: 11 Q Substances. 12 A We have mentioned diesel, we have 13 mentioned asbestos. He would have been 14 exposed as well to chromium from welding, 15 mill rights, he was a certified industrial 16 welder and he would have been welding 17 stainless steel, so he would have been 18 exposed to chromium, exposed to nickel and 19 nickel compounds, he was supposed to acid 20 aerosols from the welding flux, welding 2 1 materials, he was exposed to silica from 22 grinding and sandblasting. That, again, is (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 53 1 done by mill rights or that mill rights are 2 involved in. He was exposed to various 3 solvents from paints, degreasing agents that 4 are used in degreasing such things as 5 turbines and grinding agents. 6 Let me think for just a moment. 7 He had been, of course, exposed to 8 combustion products from the welding and 9 from grinding. He would be exposed to metal 10 fibers and in addition to the diesel from 11 the submarine, he would have been exposed to 12 diesel fumes. Often diesel equipment was 13 used to move heavy pieces of equipment for 14 mill rights, so he would have had exposures 15 to that. I think those are the main things 16 that -- that I would pick out of his 17 occupational exposure. 18 Q Do you believe each were 19 contributing causes of his lung cancer? 2 0 A Each of those can contribute to 21 the development of lung cancer and are - - we 22 know that mill rights, as a group of (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 54 1 workers, have a much higher level of lung 2 cancer, including adenocarcinoma, and that 3 his risks would have been elevated based on 4 his long -- his 37 plus years working as a 5 mill right in that he would have been 6 exposed to these materials during that time 7 period. We also know that some of the 8 things that I mentioned that mill rights do 9 such as welding, we know that welders as a 10 class of people also have an increased level 11 of lung cancer, which are thought to be 12 related to their exposure to any of those 13 individual chemicals. 14 Q Getting back to my question, do 15 you believe that each were contributing 16 causes of Mr. Harvey's lung cancer? 17 A They were certainly contributing 18 factors . 19 Q The question is causes. 20 A Well, again, causes doesn't -- is 2 1 pretty vague and I'm not quite sure what 22 you're referring to. If you're equating (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 55 1 cause with risk factor, I guess you could 2 use it that way, it's used pretty broadly, 3 but the way I would describe those is those 4 are risk factors in that we know that cancer 5 is -- is a multi factorial disease, which 6 means it's caused by many different things, 7 not by one thing. 8 Q In your opinion are each 9 substantial factors in producing his lung 10 cancer? 11 MR. MURPHY: Object to the form of 12 the question. 13 THE WITNESS: Well, we know that 14 each of these materials, based on the 15 earlier question, would be termed hazardous 16 and many of these are highly hazardous 17 materials. We know that within that 18 profession that after a long exposure to 19 those materials, that they have an increase 2 0 in lung cancer. I don't think that 2 1 scientifically and certainly 22 epidemiologically that we can separate out (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 56 1 those individual materials to say that it 2 was only chromium or it was only combustion 3 products, but it appears that it was a 4 combination of those, not individual 5 substances. 6 Q What definition of hazardous were 7 you just using? 8 A The same one that you had 9 suggested that, you know, if we just use a 10 general definition, that, you know, let's 11 take, for example, chromium. If animals are 12 exposed to chromium, do they develop lung 13 cancer? The answer is yes. Is there a dose 14 response? Yes, there's a dose response. So 15 in a vague definition of hazardous, if you 16 accept that as showing a hazard, then you 17 would say that chromium was hazardous. 18 Now, if -- the chromium has 19 actually been shown to do that in several 20 different animal species, so that's accepted 2 1 by the World Health Organization as being 22 carcinogenic and that's the definition I was (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 using. 57 2 Q Are there any other substances or 3 materials that you implicate as substantial 4 risk factors for his lung cancer? 5 A I didn't say those were 6 substantial risk factors. I just said that 7 those are risk factors and I don't know what 8 substantial means the way you're using it, 9 but we do know that those are risk factors, 10 are part of developing the overall risk 11 factor for mill rights. I was just thinking 12 if there were some others. I think I 13 mentioned the main ones. Others don't come 14 to mind right now. For example, mill rights 15 do use x-ray equipment and they do use 16 radioactive sources in doing measurements 17 and making sure that they have proper 18 clearances on metals that are being cut. I 19 could list also radiation in that that has 20 been a concern in some of these industries, 2 1 but I think the ones that I gave you 22 represent the most important ones. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1 -800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 58 1 MR. MURPHY: Just so I'm clear, 2 we're still within the occupational realm? 3 I mean I know that's that area where we've 4 started, but I don't know if we've moved out 5 of that or not. 6 MR. PURCELL: We've never been so 7 1imited. 8 MR. MURPHY: Okay. It's late, but 9 I'll pose an objection to the question then 10 because it was vague and I understood that 11 we had started in the occupational realm and 12 may not have moved out of it. 13 BY MR. PURCELL: 14 Q Do you believe that animal 15 modeling and testing has shown each of these 16 substances or materials to be causes of 17 cancer? 18 A Some of them have been shown to be causes of cancer. Some have not been shown specifically to be causes but to pose a risk for developing cancer and since for one reason or another the studies were not as (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 59 1 good, we have not been able to label those 2 as causes, but we know that people exposed 3 to those have an increased risk, but we 4 don't quite understand why yet. 5 Q Do each satisfy causes Koch's 6 postulates for causation for lung cancer? 7 A No, not each one of those 8 satisfies Koch's postulate. 9 Q You're pronouncing it Koch? 10 A Well, it's Koch or Koch. 11 Q K-O-C-H? 12 A Yeah. If your German it's Koch. 13 Q The fellow who did the 14 tuberculosus work? 15 A Yes . 16 Q Do you implicate his cigarette 17 smoking history as a risk factor for his 18 lung cancer? 19 A Yes . 20 Q Have you ranked any of these risk 21 factors in terms of their significance in 22 his specific case and his specific cancer? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 60 1 A Have I -- I'm not quite sure what 2 you mean by "ranked." I've gone through and 3 read the information in the medical records 4 and so forth that is contained in the box 5 that I brought in and I've come to an 6 understanding as to what I feel his 7 exposures are and what many of the risks are 8 that he was exposed to. 9 Q What have you concluded? 10 A Well, we've mentioned cigarette 11 smoke as being a risk factor, mentioned the 12 occupational exposure to the various 13 materials that I gave you as being a risk 14 factor, we haven't as yet talked about 15 environmental exposures, which are also risk 16 factors, we haven't talked about some life 17 style issues, for example, his alcohol 18 consumption is a risk factor, and another 19 one that I think is important for him is the 2 0 family relationship to others that may have 2 1 developed cancer. We know that cancer tends 22 to run in families. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 61 1 Now, in addition there are some 2 chronic developing diseases that themselves 3 could be listed as risk factors, but are 4 more consistent with his exposures to some 5 of the materials that we've talked about 6 from his occupational exposures and from the 7 environmental exposures and possibly based 8 on his family genetics. 9 Q As amongst his history of 10 cigarette smoking, do you implicate his 11 entire dose or do you disregard aspects of 12 his total dose? 13 A Well, when I initially read 14 through this, I tried to understand what his 15 total dose would have been, in other words, 16 his total cigarette consumption was 17 typically measured in pack years, and he had 18 approximately a 40-pack year history, which 19 is an indication of his dose. That's the 20 main thing that I considered for his risks 2 1 from cigarette smoking or developing 22 adenocarcinoma. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 62 1 Q Have you made any calculation or 2 formed any opinion as to implicating any 3 subsets of his total cigarette history as 4 dose in contributing to his lung cancer 5 outcome ? 6 A Well, there are some other issues 7 that come out of this case and I had been 8 asked, and these, again, relate to 9 individual products, the fact that he has 10 smoked for a short time period an R.J. 11 Reynolds for less than five years, probably 12 around two to three, maybe four years he 13 smoked Camels when he first started smoking 14 and then switched over to another company's 15 product later. I had been asked what his 16 risks would have been from that first three 17 or four years worth of smoking. So that's 18 one issue. 19 In addition, he actually quit 2 0 smoking, I believe, based on the records on 2 1 three different occasions for approximately 2 2 a year and-a-half, so his smoking was (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 interrupted for a time period at three 63 2 different times. I thought about well, 3 suppose he had, when he stopped smoking, for 4 example, in the '80s, when he moved, if he 5 hadn't smoked anything further and continued 6 not to smoke, what would his risks be, I 7 thought about those types of issues, so we 8 call that diminishing risk. 9 Q What conclusions specific in this 1 0 case have you drawn on those issues you've 11 just stated? 12 A Well, first of all, if we were to 13 separate out one product versus another 14 product and we were to focus, as I did, 15 which was focused in this disclosure 16 statement, on Camel brand cigarettes, which 17 were the ones that were manufactured by R.J. 18 Reynolds, he only smoked those when he first 19 started smoking for about, let's say, 20 approximately three years. If he hadn't 2 1 smoked anything else other than those three, 22 his risk of developing lung cancer at (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 64 1 age 61, when he was diagnosed, would be the 2 same as a person who never smoked and thats 3 what was referred to here as diminimus. If 4 he had not -- if he had stopped smoking and 5 had not started back to smoke at any of the 6 other time periods, we know that as a person 7 stops smoking, within 5, usually 10 years, 8 their risk starts to drop rather rapidly by 9 the first 5 years and by 10 years it's 1 0 dropped considerably, so by about 15 years 11 it's nearly back to a person who has not 12 smoked. That's referred to as diminishing 13 risk. So if he had stopped smoking and 14 hadn't continued in those other time 15 periods, he would be back similar to or at 16 the same level as a person who never smoked. 17 MR. MURPHY: When you get a good 18 chance - 19 BY MR. PURCELL: 20 Q I appreciate all of that. I'm 2 1 interested in not somebody else and someone 22 else's smoking history that could have (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 65 1 tracked portions or aspects of Mr. Harvey's. 2 I'm interested specifically in Mr. Harvey's 3 actual dose and history. 4 Is there anything about the 5 analysis that you just mentioned that allows 6 you to back in Mr. Harvey's specific case 7 and disregard the dose he received from 8 Camel as being contributing to his risk 9 factors for lung cancer? 10 MR. MURPHY: I object to the form 11 of the question. 12 BY MR. PURCELL: 13 Q You may respond. 14 A Yeah, I'm trying to think what 15 your question -- what you're asking. If 16 you're asking that when he stopped smoking 17 Camels, if he didn't smoke any other 18 cigarettes, the smoking of Camels would not 19 have contributed statistically to him 2 0 developing cancer at age 61. 21 BY MR. PURCELL: 22 Q No, that's not what I'm asking you (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 at all. 66 2 A Then I don't understand your 3 que s tion. 4 Q Do you view prospective risk 5 analysis for cancer to be the same 6 analytical construct as retrospective 7 causation analysis? 8 A I don1t know what 9 causation analysis is. I know what 10 prospective and retrospective epidemiologic 11 studies are and they don't have anything to 12 do with causation. They -- so I don't - 13 I'm not quite sure I understand what your 14 question is. There are different constructs 15 for prospective and retrospective 16 epidemiologic studies if that's what the 17 question is. 18 Q I'm interested to know is there 19 anything about the disciplines with which 20 you are very familiar and well trained 2 1 regarding risk analysis that allows you to 22 in any way disregard the dose from Camel (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 67 1 smoking as being a risk factor specific in 2 Mr. Harvey with all that you know about him? 3 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 4 of the question. 5 THE WITNESS: I think what you 1 re 6 asking -- I'm trying to answer your 7 question -- is that if we segment dose into 8 various parts and even into different 9 factors, do we do that in epidemiologic 10 studies, the answer is yes. That is the 11 process that we go through in trying to 12 illuminate Nate confounding factors, that's 13 the process that we use to try to understand 14 risks of various ages and to even try to 15 understand such things as adaptivity and 16 synergism and so forth. So we do segment 17 does and say, you know, suppose this had 18 happened or let's take -- if we're looking 19 at lung cancer, let's take cigarette smoking 20 out or let's take asbestos exposure out and 21 see what the risks are. So we do that all 22 the time. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 68 1 MR. PURCELL: I guess we could 2 take a break if you would like to. 3 MR. MURPHY: Thanks. 4 (Recess) 5 BY MR. PURCELL: 6 Q Back on the record, doctor. Have 7 you formed any opinion that any aspect of 8 Mr. Harvey specifically, his smoking dose 9 were not risk factors for his lung cancer 10 development ? 11 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 12 of the question. It's vague. 13 THE WITNESS: I'm trying to think 14 how to answer your question. Like I say, 15 before I broke I talked about segmenting 16 dose into various parts. It is possible, we 17 do it in epidemiologic studies, in trying to 18 eliminate or consider various factors. I 19 started out with the initial basis that he 20 was approximately a 40-pack per year smoker 21 and, as I indicated, if he had only smoked 22 for, say, approximately three years and (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 69 1 never smoked again when he was young, then 2 he would not have had any risk at all at 3 age 61 of developing lung cancer based on 4 that three years of exposure earlier. If 5 that answers your question, I'm trying to 6 answer it the best I can. 7 BY MR. PURCELL: 8 Q Actually it doesn't, but I 9 appreciate your effort. I'm not trying to 10 talk at all about someone other than 11 Mr. Harvey and what their risks might or 12 might not have been from a smoking history 13 that would in some way parallel pieces of 14 Mr. Harvey's smoking history. I'm intending 15 to ask you specific to Mr. Harvey and his 16 development of lung cancer. Have you formed 17 any opinion about his dose of cigarette 18 smoking and his history where you have 19 implicated some periods of smoking history 20 as risk factors for his lung cancer that he 21 developed and excluded others or are you 22 taking his total approximate 40-pack year (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 -- 1 dose ? 70 2 A Well, for comparison with other 3 risk factors I would take his total 40-pack 4 year dose. 5 Q Do you believe that occupational 6 exposure to asbestos causes mesothelioma? 7 A Yes . 8 Q Do you believe that cigarette 9 smoking has not been identified as a cause 10 or risk factor for mesothelioma? 11 A Yes, it has not been identified as 12 a risk factor or a cause for mesothelioma. 13 Q Are you aware of any animal models 14 that have shown asbestos to cause 15 mesothelioma? 16 A Yes . 17 Q Which ones? 18 A Well, like I say, X didn't prepare 19 to discuss asbestos in that much detail, but 20 they have been able to produce in the 2 1 interstitial fibrosis that you see in 22 mesothelioma in rats, they've actually been (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 71 1 able to produce it in some strains of mice. 2 Q When you say "they" - 3 A These are researchers. 4 Q Do you have a name or - - 5 A No, I didn't go through it in that 6 detail. I just know that laboratory animal 7 studies have been done and they have been 8 successful of producing the interstitial 9 fibrosis that we see in humans that are 10 exposed in asbestos, in animals that are 11 exposed to asbestos. 12 Q My question was focusing on the 13 specific response of malignant mesothelioma. 14 Do you know of any animal experiments or 15 studies that have shown inhalation of 16 asbestos to produce malignant mesothelioma? 17 A Like I say, the laboratory animal 18 studies have produced mesothelioma and they 19 have produced lung cancer in animals, so the 20 answer is yes. 21 Q Can you give me a name or a 22 citation to any of them? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 72 1 A No, not at this point. Like I 2 say, I didn't prepare to go into asbestos in 3 that kind of detail. 4 Q Do you understand these to be 5 inhalation studies or other types of animal 6 modeling ? 7 A There have been inhalation 8 studies, but many of the studies have, and 9 this is just based on my memory, have 10 actually been done where the fibers have 11 been introduced in the body through 12 injection, for example, injection in the 13 peritoneal cavity of the animal. So it's 14 been introduced in different ways in 15 addition to inhalation. However, if you 16 look at the inhalation, the models have 17 shown fibrosis in animals. 18 Q Do you believe a fibrotic response 19 has anything whatsoever to do with a 2 0 malignant mesothelioma response? 21 A I believe the fibrotic response 22 that we see in humans exposed to asbestos (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 73 1 does usually precede the development of lung 2 cancer. 3 Q Do you consider it to be an 4 obligate precursor for an asbestos-induced 5 lung cancer? 6 A That's been a debate for several 7 years and I first a few years ago thought 8 that we'd almost have to see fibrotic 9 changes, pleural thickening and so forth 10 that you see first before the cancer 11 developed. In the most recent studies they 12 actually have seen lung cancer in 13 individuals that have not shown the 14 fibrosis. But I think they're more commonly 15 linked, but we do see it from time to time 16 it appears. So one is not necessarily 17 absolutely a precursor for the other one. 18 Q If I understand you correctly, you 19 recognize that it's more common for there to 2 0 be both fibrotic changes in someone who 21 developed an asbestos-induced lung cancer 22 but that it is not a biologic obligate (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 precursor; is that your current view? 74 2 A Yes, that's correct. 3 Q I've read a little about your 4 inhalation studies on dogs involving tobacco 5 smoke. 6 A Yes . 7 Q Again, what years were you doing 8 those studies? 9 A Late 1970s, early 19&0s. 10 Q My understanding is that as your 11 studies ran their course, you were not able 12 to get cancer in the lungs of the dogs; is 13 that right? 14 A That 1s correct. 15 Q For how long did you follow the 16 exposed dogs? 17 A So this is a folder that has been 18 copied -- 19 Q Yeah. 20 A So that's the exhibit. I don't 2 1 remember the exact time and we also had what 22 are called serial sacrifices where dogs were (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 killed at various intervals and then the 75 2 lungs were examined. I believe the longest 3 dogs, again, to try to answer your question, 4 were a little over three years. 5 Q Did you publish any of the data? 6 A I didn't publish the data. These 7 were put together in reports and submitted 8 to the National Cancer Institute. 9 Q What are those reports entitled 10 generally so X could find them? 11 A Well, generally, they're titled 12 tobacco inhalation studies of beagle dogs. 13 They were done at both Battelle and Boriston 14 Laboratories. 15 Q Why weren't you able to get cancer 16 in the lungs of the beagle dogs? 17 A I don't know the answer to that. 18 We -- part of the reason those studies were 19 conducted was to try to replicate 2 0 Dr. Auerbach's studies he had done in beagle 2 1 dogs where he felt that he had an increase 22 in tumors and so we were asked to try to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 76 1 replicate those studies, in other words, to 2 try to produce tumors as well, and we were 3 unsuccessful. 4 Q Have you ever expressed any view 5 as to why? 6 A Have I ever -- I was trying to 7 figure out -- not to my recollection. I 8 think the -- I basically said I don't know 9 why we were not able to produce tumors. We 10 and others were not -- were never able to 11 replicate the studies that were done by 12 Auerbach, so we actually weren't the only 13 one. Others had tried the same thing but 14 were unsuccessful. 15 Q Do you believe your studies 16 support the view that tobacco smoke does not 17 cause lung cancer? 18 A It supports that fact from the 19 standpoint of not understanding the 20 mechanism of lung cancer. That's not to say 21 that there aren't a lot of human studies 22 that show consistent increases in lung (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 77 1 cancer based on cigarette smoking, but we 2 have been unsuccessful at developing a 3 laboratory animal model, of which the beagle 4 dogs were a part of that attempt. 5 Q Do you believe cigarette smoking 6 to cause lung cancer? 7 A Well, again, it depends on how you 8 describe cause and there's a lot of 9 different ways. If we were to say well, 10 cause is based on the fact that we have 11 repeated epidemiologic studies and clear 12 statistical studies in humans to show that 13 there's an association between cigarette 14 smoke and developing lung cancer, I would 15 say yes. As a scientist, we try to develop 16 a laboratory animal model and understand how 17 it's developed and so from the Koch's 18 postulates that you referred to earlier we 19 would say no because we don't under the 20 mechanism and, in fact, we don't have the 21 laboratory animals yet we that can use to 22 understand it, so we're at a clear (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 disadvantage. 78 2 Q Do you agree or disagree with the 3 statement, "There is an overwhelming medical 4 and scientific consensus that cigarette 5 smoking causes lung cancer, heart disease, 6 emphysema and other serious diseases in 7 smokers"? 8 A I don't know what that's from. If 9 that's from the Surgeon General's report, 10 the Surgeon General gave the definition that 11 I would call a public health definition that 12 there are epidemiologic studies that clearly 13 link cigarette smoking with lung cancer. X 14 would agree that that's true, but we don't 15 have laboratory animal studies even as yet 16 that helps us understand what that link is. 1 7 Q If I'm reading from a tobacco 18 company publication, does that affect 19 whether you would agree with it or not? 20 A No, it doesn't affect whether I 21 agree with it. It's just, like I say, based 22 on what that was -- how cause was defined. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1 -800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 79 1 Q Do you understand that to be R.J. 2 Reynolds 1 current position and thinking? 3 A I don't know what R.J. Reynolds' 4 current position and thinking is regarding 5 cigarette smoking. 6 Q Have you been asked to go back and 7 historically review that? 8 A Not in R.J. Reynolds. As I 9 indicated, I haven't gone back and tried to 10 review R.J. Reynolds' documents. 11 Q Have you done that regarding any 12 manufacturer of tobacco products? 13 A I have gone back and reviewed the 14 scientific literature, how cancer research 15 has been done over the years, including how 16 cigarette studies have been conducted and 17 what laboratory animal studies, what human 18 studies have been published, and I've 19 gone -- I've reviewed tens of thousands of 20 articles in that area, and I think I have a 21 pretty clear understanding as to how the 22 science has developed over the years. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 80 1 Q Do you have any opinion specific 2 to R.J. Reynolds or Philip Morris and when 3 they actually knew of the propensity of 4 cigarette smoke to cause lung cancer? 5 MR. MURPHY: Objection. Vague and 6 ambiguous. 7 THE WITNESS: Well, I can't speak 8 as to when, "a company" knew about anything 9 and the company is made up of a lot of 10 different people and researchers that are 11 active. I have over the years seen 12 researchers in R.J. Reynolds and Philip 13 Morris and Lorilard and other companies that 14 have published in the scientific literature 15 studies and, as I indicated earlier, I 16 haven't reviewed internal documents in these 17 companies to try to understand what their 18 thought processes were at a particular time 19 period, but in comparison with what was 20 being published in the literature, I assume 2 1 that their scientists were keeping up and 22 had their own opinions about what was being (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 stated in the literature. 81 2 BY MR. PURCELL: 3 Q Other than that, would it be fair 4 to say you're not going to be offering any 5 company-specific opinions or views; is that 6 correct ? 7 A Only to the state that it deals 8 with the science at the time that maybe a 9 statement was made. Just as you read me a 10 statement, somebody could read me a 11 statement that was written by R.J. Reynolds 12 or by the Surgeon General and say, you know, 13 in 1960, based on the science, that this 14 makes sense to state that, I can say yes or 15 no. Only from that standpoint. 1 wouldn't 16 testify about internal documents. 17 Q Let me ask you what opinions you 18 have formed and intend to express in the 19 Harvey trial. 20 MR. MURPHY; If that's the end of 2 1 the question, I object as vague, overbroad, 22 overwhelming. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 BY MR. PURCELL: 82 2 Q You may respond. 3 A It would be a lot easier to answer 4 that if you were a little more specific 5 about which you would like me to address. 6 Q Rather than my going through it in 7 another way, my preference is to just have 8 you indicate for me the opinions that you 9 have formed and are prepared to testify 10 about here today that you will be giving in 11 the defendants' case in chief and my intent 12 is to have a list of them so that I can know 13 what you're going to say at trial. 14 A I understand. 15 MR. MURPHY: Same objection. 16 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I understand 17 what you're -- I think you're trying to do. 18 BY MR. PURCELL: 19 Q In fairness, doctor, you know, I'm 2 0 not going to quibble about minutia or 21 detail, I want the big topic opinion 22 details, if you will. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 A Well, just looking at the 83 2 disclosure that I provided, and there are - 3 I think I could probably summarize it, and, 4 again, this is just a summary, is that 5 first, and this is the first bullet in here, 6 number one, that I probably would be asked, 7 and, again, I don't know what the attorneys 8 are going to ask me to do, but I could very 9 well testify about this research in cancer 10 and how it 1s been carried out and 11 specifically for lung cancer and exposure to 12 cigarette smoke both in laboratory animals 13 and in humans starting, say, back in 14 the 1930s even up to today. Then, secondly, 15 I could testify about Mr. Harvey's risk 16 factors for developing adenocarcinoma of the 17 lung. We have talked in some detail about 18 the occupational exposures that he had, his 19 mill right and his submariner, and I would 2 0 also describe his environmental factors, his 21 lifestyle factors, such as the consumption 22 of alcohol, the risks related to his family, (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 84 1 for example, that his father had also not 2 only had lung cancer but died of lung 3 cancer, and when they xeroxed this, they cut 4 this off. Sorry. 5 Q I have another copy if you would 6 like to see - - 7 A Yeah, I was just looking to see if 8 I was consistent with this disclosure. 9 Yeah, it's got this next page on it. 10 Mr. Harvey also had a progressive 11 development of interstitial fibrosis, which 12 appears to have started fairly early. It 13 may have started based on the initial 14 asbestos exposure, but was certainly seen 15 before the cancer was diagnosed, for 16 example, in 1995, the fibrotic lesion, 17 pleural thickening, scar formation were 18 seen, and that is an important basis 19 biologically for the development of 20 especially adenocarcinoma and so I would 2 1 testify about the potential links between 22 the scarring of the lung and the development (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 of adenocarcinoma. 85 2 BY MR. PURCELL: 3 Q Do you believe his exposure to 4 asbestos in the work place played any role 5 in developing his pleural thickening and 6 pleural scarring? 7 A I think that was one of the 8 risk -- the risk factories for him 9 developing it, but I don't think it's the 10 only risk factor. There were others as well 11 that I mentioned before, all of which 12 produce scarring of the lungs and could have 13 contributed to development of the 14 adenocarcinoma. 15 Q Anything else? 16 A What I tried to do is summarize 17 the, probably three areas then: First is 18 history of cancer research; second, the 19 individual risk factors for Mr. Harvey; and 20 then probably third, the mechanisms of the 21 damage that we see in the lung associated 22 with these various exposures and how those (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 can lead to the development of 86 2 adenocarcinoma, which is the mechanistic 3 aspects . 4 Q Would any of your opinions change, 5 as you describe them in these three areas, 6 if you were asked to assume that Mr. Harvey 7 had a nonsmall cell carcinoma? 8 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 9 form. 10 THE WITNESS: Well, adenocarcinoma 11 is a nonsmall cell. Nonsmall cell is a 12 designation given to anything but small 13 cell, so in some of his early diagnoses that 14 were given were simply nonsmall cell. 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q So the answer is no? 1 7 A Well, it -- the fact he had 18 adenocarcinoma is more specific to scarring. 19 Nonsmall cell could be several different 2 0 types and so the scarring may have been less 21 important if it was nonsmall cell, although 22 what I would try to do is simply not leave (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 87 1 it as nonstuall cell but try to get a better 2 understanding of what it actually was rather 3 than just a vague description of the 4 pathology. 5 Q Would it in any way change your 6 evaluation of the significance of pleural 7 thickening and pleural scarring as important 8 factors for his cancer? 9 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 10 form, vague and unintelligible. 11 THE WITNESS: Again, that's 12 difficult to answer. To try to respond, if 13 it was simply diagnosed as nonsmall cell, 14 because that's a broader set of tumors, of 15 potential cell type tumors, that would put a 16 little more uncertainty into it than the 17 fact that it was an adenocarcinoma and we 18 know that adenocarcinomas are often 19 associated with scarring. 20 BY MR. PURCELL: 2 1 Q Would you still associate or 22 implicate his optional exposure history to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 asbestos as a risk factor? 88 2 A Yes . 3 Q Would the same be true if this was 4 described pathologically as a nonsmall cell 5 carcinoma with squamous cell features? 6 A Again, you're actually asking two 7 different questions. Nonsmall cell is a 8 group which includes adenocarcinoma. It's 9 not uncommon to find some mixed cell types 10 in a tumor and if it were an adenocarcinoma 11 predominantly with some squamous cell cancer 12 as well associated with it, that wouldn't 13 change my analysis. 14 Q Do you believe there to be any 15 health benefit to smoking light or low tar 16 cigare11 e s ? 1 7 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 18 of the question. I think it's vague and I 19 think it's unintelligible. 20 THE WITNESS: I mentioned earlier 21 that one of the things the cigarette 22 companies could do just based on common (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 sense is to reduce the amount of tar in 89 2 cigarettes and, in fact, that's been done 3 over the years. Because we don't have a lot 4 of laboratory animal models to test that, 5 we're not quite sure whether that really 6 reduces the risks or not, but there have 7 been the introduction of low tar cigarettes 8 and so forth into the market partly with the 9 intention of trying to reduce the risks 10 associated with cigarette smoking. Like I 11 say, the problem is that we don't have 12 laboratory animal models to test that, so we 13 don't know if that assumption is correct or 14 not . 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q So do you believe there are health 17 benefits to smoking light and low tar 18 cigarettes ? 19 A Well - 20 MR. MURPHY: Same objection as I 21 had before. 22 THE WITNESS: Like I say, I don't (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 know because I have no way of testing it. 90 2 My common sense would say that there are, 3 but that's not what I usually do my analysis 4 based on, common sense. 5 BY MR. PURCELL: 6 Q Are you familiar with any medical 7 data that would suggest tar for light 8 cigarettes to be much worse than regular 9 cigarettes? 10 A I have seen studies. Again, I 11 read the scientific literature. I've seen 12 studies that have proposed that cigarettes 13 that are lighter tar cigarettes for one 14 reason or another may actually introduce tar 15 deeper in the lung than cigarettes that are 16 not light cigarettes. I don't think that's 17 been proven yet, but that's one of the 18 speculations that I see particularly in the 19 epidemiologic literature, but it's never 20 been shown in the laboratory. So based on 21 that, then you would say well, these 22 cigarettes are not less hazardous, but may, (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 in fact, be more risky. 91 2 Q You have no view on that currently 3 because of your understanding of the state 4 of the science; is that correct? 5 A Yeah, based on the state of the 6 science, we don't know how to test that, 7 so -- and any attempts to test it have been 8 unsuccessful. So at this point it remains 9 speculat ion. 10 Q Are filtered cigarettes more 11 mutagenic than regular unfiltered 12 cigarettes? 13 A Well, mutagenic means a lot 14 different things. You have to tell me what 15 you mean by mutagenic. For example, do you 16 mean based on Ames test or -- 17 Q Exactly, yes. 18 A Well, many years ago when Ames 19 testing was more popular and used more 20 extensively, there were some filtered 21 cigarettes that tended to show some 22 increases in mutagenicity over those that (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 92 1 were not filtered cigarettes, however, later 2 studies weren't able to show that to be 3 true. In fact, when they examined it in 4 detail, they found that, in fact, 5 cigarettes -- filtered cigarettes tended to 6 be less mutagenic than those that were - 7 didn't have filters, so in a repeat of those 8 studies the Ames test have not been used as 9 much lately because we have found out that 10 they're -- they're not really that useful in 11 anything but be a preliminary screening. 12 Q Where are those results published? 13 A Which results? 14 Q The results you were just 15 referencing regarding the Ames? 16 A The Ames testing, the most recent 17 analysis was done by the National Institute 18 for Environmental Health Sciences 19 and 1996 -- I can't remember the author, but 20 it's available actually on line -- discusses 21 the weaknesses of the Ames and other in 22 vitro tests as a way to actually show that (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 93 1 something is carcinogenic as -- as opposed 2 to other types of tests such as whole animal 3 tests and those -- that discusses what I 4 just mentioned. 5 Q Getting back to your areas of 6 opinion in the case, could you be more 7 specific about the specific opinions that 8 you formed and intend to express in those 9 areas in the Harvey case? 10 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 11 form, overbroad. 12 THE WITNESS: Would you like to 13 mention one of the areas and I'll try to be 14 explain it? 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q Sure, we can take them in order. 17 The first category was research on cancer 18 from cigarette smoke spanning from the 1930s 19 to date on both enveloping animal and human 20 studies, the history of that research, and 2 1 let me try, and out of deference of 22 counsel's objection, make this a more (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 manageable area and say that if you have 94 2 previously articulated your views in this 3 area, for example, in the Engle direct 4 testimony you provided in April of 1999, you 5 don't have to repeat that now. I'm happy to 6 just incorporate that by reference. I'm 7 interested to just know what the opinions 8 are so that I'm not surprised at trial by 9 them. 10 MR. MURPHY: Just for 11 clarification, are you limiting it to Engle? 12 MR. PURCELL: Well, if there's a 13 difference, I'm happy to incorporate other 14 transcript so that the doctor is comfortable 15 that it covers the universe of his first 16 category. In other words, in Exhibit 1 if 17 he wanted to point out other trials and say, 18 you know, if you read the testimony I gave 19 in this trial, this trial and this trial, 2 0 that's going to do it, that would be fine. 21 THE WITNESS: Engle was one of the 22 more complete descriptions that I did of - (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703} 684-2382 95 1 of the historical development of the science 2 and I think reflects a lot of what I would 3 refer to here probably in less detail than 4 in Engle, but in some of these others I have 5 given various aspects of that such as in the 6 Kenyon case, a most recent case, and in the 7 Mehlman case, I gave less detail but 8 sometimes more specific information on the 9 development and how it may have referred to 10 that specific case, and I think those - 11 those three, Kenyon, Mehlman and Engle, 12 probably would cover everything that I would 13 cover in this for the first area. 14 BY MR. PURCELL: 15 Q Can you think of anything that you 16 would be offering as an opinion in this area 1 7 in the Harvey case that isn't stated in 18 those three transcripts? 19 MR. MURPHY: Again, just so it's 2 0 clear, because I got burned on this earlier 2 1 in a deposition, you're limiting that 22 question to this one subject area? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 96 1 MR. PURCELL: Yes, this is the 2 first category, research on cancer from 3 cigarette smoke historically from - 4 MR. MURPHY: Because I think it 5 gets confusing when it's eliminated and then 6 you get down to one and I think that 7 happened earlier. 8 MR. PURCELL: No, this has to do 9 with the first category of opinions. 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah, based on the 11 first category I think those three years 12 would describe my testimony with the 13 exception of any newly-published references 14 that may become available since I testified 15 in Kenyon that deal specifically with such 16 issues as animal studies and so forth, and 17 this is an evolving science, it's a 18 developing science, and there's still a lot 19 of publication that's being done. But I 2 0 don't think it will substantially contribute 21 to that, that may be offered as an 22 additional reference for support. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 BY MR. PURCELL: 97 2 Q Do you have any in mind right now? 3 A No. 4 Q Taking that representation, and I 5 thank you for it, doctor, I'm happy to move 6 to the second category overall of your 7 opinion areas in the Harvey case that was 8 described by you as a general topic category 9 of Mr. Harvey's risk factors for 10 adenocarcinoma of the lung. You've already 11 discussed considerations regarding his being 12 mill right, on a submarine. Could you 13 expand and give me, without revisiting what 14 you've already stated, what opinions you 15 formed in this category that you intend to 16 express specific in the Harvey case? 17 MR. MURPHY: You don't want him to 18 go over the mill right and sub? 19 MR. PURCELL: I think he's covered 20 those okay for my purposes. I'm interested 2 1 in the environmental factors, the lifestyle 22 factors, family risk areas or what other (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 areas he hasn't yet mentioned. 2 MR. MURPHY: Well, I don't want to 3 cut you off, but he mentioned smoking. Do 4 you want to do that or do you want to make a 5 list? I don 1 t want to leave - - 6 MR . PURCELL: Smoking is fine. 7 This is the opportunity to - 8 MR. MURPHY: Well, he did talk 9 about it. I just don't know, given your 10 qualifications of some things he talked 11 about before, I just want to - 12 BY MR. PURCELL: 13 Q You need not repeat what you've 14 already talked about here this afternoon, 15 doctor. 16 MR. MURPHY: Okay. 17 THE WITNESS: Yeah, we've -- we've 18 talked about the mill right, we've talked 19 about the submariner, we've talked about the 20 various exposures during those occupational 2 1 activities, so we'll set those aside. 22 In the environmental, if we take a (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 99 1 new area that we actually haven't discussed 2 in detail, Mr. Harvey lived in Middlesex, 3 New Jersey, in an area that had considerable 4 pollution. Not only was there a on the lot 5 of pollution, but he lived for over 21 years 6 within a mile -- three different addresses 7 South Lincoln, his address there, his Cook 8 address and also when he lived on 2nd 9 Street. He lived at those addresses for 1 0 over 21 years and those are all three within 11 a mile of a major Superfund site which was 12 well known in the area and had extensive 13 radioactive waste, such things as radium, 14 thorium, plutonium, that led that to be a 15 major Superfund site and has currently been 16 taken over by the Department of Energy to 17 clean it up. So that should be considered 18 in his -- the analysis of his potential 19 exposures to materials that may cause 2 0 pulmonary fibrosis and lung cancer. 2 1 A couple of the other 2 2 environmental areas that I would mention is (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 the radon. He lived on the edge of the 100 2 Reading Prong, where radon is released from 3 the rocks, and he lived right -- he was in a 4 medium to a high area of radon exposure and 5 we know that radon is a risk for developing 6 lung cancer. 7 Probably the other environmental 8 one that I think may be important and I, 9 frankly, have not quite decided how to 10 classify these with the other risks, is the 11 area of ozone exposure. Ozone is a common 12 air pollutant particularly in the New York, 13 New Jersey area. There are many days of 14 exceedence in the ozone standards and we 15 know that ozone causes pulmonary fibrosis 16 through a free-radical mechanism in the 17 lung. So that's one that probably ought to 18 be considered since he had extensive 1 9 interstitial fibrosis. 2 0 I think those are probably the 2 1 major environmental areas that I've been 22 able to identify so far. There may be (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 101 1 others, but those are the ones I can think 2 about and I think those probably constitute 3 the most important. 4 BY MR. PURCELL: 5 Q You then also mentioned lifestyle 6 factors, family risk and smoking as other 7 risk factor categories for his lung canner. 8 Can you tell me what opinions you formed and 9 intend to express in those areas? 10 MR. MURPHY: Again, if we covered 11 it before, we're going to assume it's 12 covered. 13 MR. PURCELL: Yes. 14 THE WITNESS: The lifestyle area, 15 when I typically look at potential factors 16 for developing disease, especially cancer, 17 lifestyle typically includes such things as 18 diet, I usually include in lifestyle alcohol 19 consumption. I don't really have any 2 0 information that his diet was an issue, but 21 his alcohol consumption was high. He was, 22 according to the medical records and other (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 102 1 depositions, consumed three to six beers a 2 night on a daily basis and based on 3 scientific studies, that would be a risk 4 factor for developing lung cancer, that 5 level of alcohol consumption. Like I say, 6 diet probably was not -- I don't see 7 evidence of a particularly bad diet, so that 8 probably would not be one that I would 9 consider. But I think the alcohol is an 10 important one and we know that the risks of 11 alcohol consumption do add or contribute to 12 the risk of developing lung cancer. 13 Q You may continue now with the 14 family risk and smoking if there's anything 15 additional than what you already mentioned 16 that you would like to add. 17 A Well, I mentioned his father -- as 18 you know, cancer runs in families, so if you 19 have a family that has an increased level of 20 cancer, then we typically refer to that as a 21 cancer burden and we know that offspring 22 have a higher risk of developing cancer. We (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 103 1 also look to see if it's a cancer that is 2 the same type of cancer in, say, a parent, 3 an offspring. So the fact that his father 4 developed lung cancer and that he died of 5 lung cancer increased his risks of 6 developing lung cancer as well. So that's 7 an important point. 8 He did have some other cancer in 9 the family as well, but I think probably the 10 most important would be the fact that his 11 own father had developed lung cancer and 12 died of it. Now, he had a grandmother that 13 had cancer and even his wife, I believe, had 14 breast cancer, but -- and she wouldn't be 15 directly generically related to him, but I 16 think probably the most important was the 17 fact that his father had developed it 18 statistically. 19 Q Anything else? 20 A Well, I think those are the major 21 areas. For example, in the environmental I 22 didn't mention some of the other areas of (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 104 1 air pollution, I just mentioned ozone and - 2 in Middlesex we pull out before the trial 3 and bring some of the other areas of air 4 pollution in. For example, polycyclic 5 aromatic hydrocarbons are found in air 6 pollution. But at this point I think simply 7 the ozone is the one that is of most concern 8 from the standpoint of interstitial fibrosis 9 and I would try to focus on those factors 10 that were -- that are known to develop 11 interstitial fibrosis in humans and we know 12 also that do that in animals. 13 Q Was there anything else you wanted 14 to add regarding smoking as a risk factor 15 for Mr. Harvey's lung cancer? 16 A Well, as I mentioned with 17 the 40-pack year history, that 18 adenocarcinoma is one of the forms of lung 1 9 cancer that is less related to cigarette 20 smoking. Someone said it's not related to 2 1 cigarette smoking, although we do tend to 22 see an increase in risk for, say, a 40-pack (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 year per year smoker of about 4.5 to 4.7 105 2 relative risk. So if you simply took the 3 fact that he was approximately a 40-year 4 pack user, then that would give him a risk 5 from smoking as developing adenocarcinoma of 6 about 4.5. So depending on what I'm asked 7 to do by the attorneys that are involved in 8 this, it would be impossible to make 9 comparisons between that and the 10 occupational exposure, environmental 11 exposure, and then the lifestyle types of 12 factors like the alcohol consumption and the 13 relative risks from those. 14 Q Have you done that? 15 A I have not done that as yet. 16 Q As you sit here? 17 A As I sit here. 18 Q As you sit here, are you able to 19 give me some rough ballparks in comparison 20 to let's assume a 4.5 relative risk from the 21 smoking history of 40-pack years? 22 A Well, I can give you some ballpark (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 106 1 numbers for these. The -- we talked about 2 the in fact that he was mill right. Those 3 that are mill rights have relative risks - 4 you know, one study mentioned 3.7, so 5 somewhere between, say, 3 and 4 relative 6 risk for a mill right. 7 Q Now, are you referencing studies 8 that control for cigarette smoking? 9 A Yes, these are studies that 10 control for cigarette smoking. 11 Q In the mill right population? 12 A In the mill right population, so 13 they've taken that out and are simply 14 describing the risk associated with being a 15 mill right but not a smoker. 16 Q Does it leave in, if you will, 17 potential asbestos exposures as a mill 18 right ? 19 A Yes . 2 0 Q Okay. 21 A It leaves in exposures to 22 asbestos, chromium, welding, these other (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 107 1 types of things that we've already talked 2 about. 3 Q Any other ballparks? 4 A Let me think. We've talked about 5 the occupational. We could separate out the 6 individual risk factors. For example, we 7 could talk about the risks from thorium, 8 from asbestos and so forth, and each one of 9 those within populations have risk factors, 10 again, ranging from, oh, approximately two 11 and-a-half up to five or six depending on 12 which one we're talking about and what the 13 exposures were, but I think right now the 14 easiest is simply to say well as a mill 15 right, it's approximately four. 16 The environmental exposures, 17 radon, radon runs from a relative risk of 18 about three and-a-half up to about six 19 depending on, again, the exposure. 20 Q Which do you believe would most 2 1 correspond to Mr. Harvey's situation? 22 A Well, let's see. He lived there (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 108 1 over 25 years. Right now I tend to think of 2 his exposure as being not up around the 3 level of six, but more like four to five 4 relative risk from radon. It's moderate to 5 high. But it was not -- he was not actually 6 in the area of the highest exposures, which 7 would be up around five and six. Those were 8 four to five. Again, these are just 9 ballpark numbers. 10 Q I understand. Thank you. 11 A Now, ozone is an environmental 12 risk and it runs about two and-a-half to 13 three. Particulates, I didn't separate a 14 lot of those out, but in a, say in a 15 polluted area in New York City or in New 16 Jersey, relative risks run from about 1.5 17 to 2.5. Sometimes as high as 3 and-a-half. 18 Again, what I would try to do is pull those 19 out and make these specific to his 2 0 situation, his address and number of years 21 he 1ived there. 22 The final area that I mentioned, (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 109 1 the alcoholic consumption, he would be at 2 the high end of alcoholic consumption. 3 There are several studies that show that his 4 relative risk would be, and, again, it 5 depends on which study you pick, somewhere 6 between, I would say 3 and 4.7. For 7 example, the DeStafanie article, which you 8 may be familiar with, shows a 4.7 for a 9 heavier consumption of beer. So as 10 ballpark, those are the kind of values I 11 would be focusing on. 12 Q Thank you. Can you think of 13 anything else in terms of his general 14 category of Mr. Harvey's risk factors for 15 lung cancer that you haven't mentioned? 16 A Well, I can say I've tried to pick 17 the most important ones that I thought right 18 now are the most important. The one 19 caution, I am still receiving records and 20 depositions. Because I've gotten most of 21 the information that I think that I'll use, 22 I don't anticipate that my opinion will (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 110 1 change that much, but there may be some new 2 information that would come in that may help 3 to support my opinions rather than change 4 them. 5 Q I understand, doctor. The 6 practical realty of the situation and such 7 that things like that do occur, however, if 8 you do any additional work or review any 9 additional materials here after that in any 10 way affect or cause you to have additional 1 1 or different opinions, we would expect to be 12 timely notified and you would need to be 13 made available for a subsequent additional 14 deposition, but that may or may not present 15 later, so I'm sure you're aware of that and 16 I know your counsel is as well. I'm 17 interested in what you've prepared for today 18 and are prepared to testify to at this time. 19 Let me move on to the third 20 general area having to do with his 2 1 progressive development of interstitial 22 fibrosis documented in the medical records (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 since approximately 1995. 111 2 You mentioned mechanisms of 3 damages in the lung and pleura, these being 4 important factors in your view for 5 adenocarcinoma. Other than what you've 6 mentioned about those, have you formed any 7 other opinions as of today in that general 8 category that you intend to express at 9 trial? 10 A I think generally, as I indicated, 11 just to kind of summarize in my own mind, 12 I've talked about the fact that a lot of the 13 materials he was exposed to throughout his 14 occupational career, including the asbestos 15 and silica and so forth, were materials that 16 would cause pulmonary fibrosis and the 17 notice that we see as development of 18 fibrosis we often see the development of 19 lung cancer. I think I've testified about 2 0 that link today and so I'm not going to go 21 into that any more, but that's something 22 I've worked in for many years. I tend -- I (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 112 1 specialize in understanding mechanisms of 2 disease and I probably talked about that as 3 well . 4 Q Could you be more specific about 5 what mechanisms? 6 A Well, the mechanisms for, like I 7 say, we consistently see pulmonary fibrosis 8 associated with an increase in lung cancer 9 regardless of whether the interstitial 10 fibrosis was caused by asbestos or caused by 11 silica or caused by chromium or something, 12 ozone. When we see the scarring in the lung 13 or even hydrofluoric acid, which scars the 14 lung, and to my knowledge he wasn't exposed 15 to, but these are the types of materials 16 that once the lung is scarred, we see an 17 increase in tumor formation. 18 Now, the tumors, just from the 19 research I've done, either tend to be 20 directly associated with the scarring - 2 1 there's been a debate in the past whether 22 the scars came first or the cancer came (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 113 1 first and caused the scarring, but, in fact, 2 when we see the scarring first, we're not 3 surprised then to see cancer develop later. 4 There have been a lot of like biological 5 studies, genetic studies to try to 6 understand what the relationship is between 7 that fiber formation in the tissues and the 8 development of the subsequent tumor. I 9 probably talk less about the molecular 10 biology than about the fact that simply when 11 we see it, that there's a relationship, but 12 there have been attempts to try to 13 understand that relationship. 14 Q Do you believe in phenomena of 15 so-called scar carcinoma or do you believe 16 that the presence of fibrosis from whatever 17 agent, including asbestos, is more 18 indicative of the dose of the carcinogen 19 involved? 20 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 2 1 form, restrictive. 22 THE WITNESS: Let me try and (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 114 1 answer your question. You actually asked 2 two questions. The first question is about 3 what we've over the years and more in the 4 past and present call scar cancer. I 5 believe that there is scar cancer. I have 6 seen in pathology tumors grow out of scars 7 and directly associated with the scar tissue 8 and I think other pathologists have seen the 9 same thing, so that's pretty well accepted 10 among pathologists. 11 Second, and I'm -- the second 12 question is the one I'm having a little 13 difficulty understanding what you're asking. 14 Maybe you could ask it again and see if I 15 could answer it. The relationship between 16 dose and scarring; is that what you're 1 7 asking? 18 Q You're familiar with the 19 literature that observes that the presence 2 0 and extent of fibrotic responses someone may 21 present with after an exposure to a 22 carcinogen may only be an indicator of dose (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 as a dose issue more than a molecular 115 2 biologic precursor in a sequence of biologic 3 response steps between fiber deposition and 4 tumor formation? Are you familiar with 5 those general subjects? 6 A Yes, I am. 7 Q I'm interested to know your 8 thoughts on whether or not the presence and 9 extent of fibrosis is more a dose indicative 10 of a dose to a carcinogen than it is 11 involved in scar cancer biologically. 12 A Well, let me try to answer the 13 first part. What you're actually referring 14 to is what we call a biological marker and 15 you can say that the formation of scar 16 tissue in the lung is a biological marker of 17 exposure to a material that is damaging the 18 lung whether it's a carcinogen or not. So 19 let's take an example. Let's take silica. 2 0 If there's exposure to silica, a biological 21 marker in the silica exposure is a formation 22 of the silicotic nodule because they're (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 fibrotic nodules. Does that mean that 116 2 cancer will develop out of those nodules? 3 No, it doesn't. It simply is one step or 4 two steps, maybe even three steps down the 5 road towards the cancer development, but 6 cancer may never develop. 7 The worst that a person may 8 develop is simply a consolidation of the 9 lung and -- and the fibrosis and lose that 10 ability to exchange oxygen but yet never get 11 cancer. 12 Q In Mr. Harvey's case do you 13 believe he has asbestosis? 14 A Yes, I do. He has pleural 15 thickening that begins fairly early and he 16 has indications of asbestos exposure. Like 17 I say, that's my own -- my own opinion based 18 on the extent of the pleural thickening he 19 has and his exposure and it seems to be 20 progressive. As we were just saying, that 2 1 could be a biologic marker of the asbestos 22 exposure. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 117 1 Now, it may also be a marker of 2 some of the other exposures that also cause 3 fibrosis, but I think it's interesting that 4 it appears to have started early and it 5 appears to be progressive and worsening with 6 time. That will be consistent with 7 mesothelioma. 8 MR. MURPHY: You misstated that 9 last word. I do not want to but in. 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah, okay. 11 Consistent with lung scarring. I think 12 that's what we were talking about. 13 BY MR. PURCELL: 14 Q Yeah. Do you believe Mr. Harvey 15 has any other diseases associated with his 16 prior history of cigarette smoking? 17 A There were indications in '95 of 18 emphysema in the x-ray readings that were 19 done by Dr, Eugene Ong. Emphysema is 20 associated with cigarette smoking. However, 21 in x-rays that were examined by Dr. Ong 22 in 1999, he did not see the emphysema, so in (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 118 1 my mind I have to assume that emphysema was 2 not present and it was not seen later. It 3 is not the type of thing that goes away. 4 The other major health problem 5 that he had was a circulatory problem and 6 the fact that he had lost part of his limb 7 because of that and I haven't decided in my 8 own mind where that peripheral vascular 9 disease that he was exhibiting in the 10 gangrene that he developed in his foot 11 was -- had anything to do with cigarette 12 smoking or not, so I haven't been able to 13 do -- come to any conclusion about that. I 14 haven't really thought that much about it. 15 I think it's interesting, but there are 16 other things that also contribute to 17 peripheral vascular disease. 18 Q Have you seen reports that 19 describe his loss of or his amputation to be 2 0 a consequent to his smoking through his 21 lobectomy procedure? 22 A Like I say, I haven't focused on (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 119 1 that and haven't tried to really consider 2 whether that was associated with cigarette 3 smoking. You had asked me about other 4 diseases and that's just not one that I've 5 analyzed. 6 Q Do you intend to offer an opinion 7 that the only disease in Mr. Harvey that is 8 related to his cigarette smoking history is 9 lung cancer? 10 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 11 form. 12 THE WITNESS: The one that I was 13 asked to specifically examine was the lung 14 cancer that he had and the opinions that 15 I've developed have been based on the 16 assignment that I had received, as a second 17 part of what we've discussed earlier, is to 18 look at the risk factors for developing that 19 lung cancer. I wasn't asked to look at 20 peripheral vascular disease. I wasn't asked 2 1 to look at emphysema, but, as I said, I did 22 note it in the medical records and then note (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 1 that it wasn't seen later. So you have 12 0 2 asked me a broad question about diseases and 3 I tried to answer you. 4 BY MR. PURCELL: 5 Q As you sit here now, would it be 6 fair that based upon your tasking that you 7 were given, you're not intending to offer 8 opinions about other medical conditions in 9 Mr. Harvey related to his prior history of 10 cigarette smoking other than his lung 11 cancer, correct? 12 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 13 form . 14 THE WITNESS: I just was going to 15 look at the disclosure again. 16 MR. PURCELL: Sure. Can we can 17 take another five-minute break at my request 18 and that will give you time to look at that, 19 we can go off the record for a few minutes. 20 Thank you. 21 (Recess) 22 (The reporter read the record as (202) 38-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 121 1 requested.) 2 THE WITNESS: I took just a moment 3 and looked through the disclosure again. 4 Based on the disclosure and what I 5 understand my assignment to be, I would 6 expect to offer opinions on lung diseases, 7 including lung cancer, and their mechanisms 8 of development and also I may, as we have 9 discussed earlier today, indicate not only 10 the risk factors associated with the 11 development of those diseases, but how those 12 would decline if a person had stopped 13 smoking at various intervals. 14 Q Other than that would there be 15 anything else? 16 A No. 17 Q Then as to that could you tell me 18 what your opinions are in that respect? 19 MR. MURPHY: Is this aside from 20 what we've already talked about today? 21 BY MR. PURCELL: 22 Q Yes, you need not repeat anything (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 you've already mentioned, doctor. 122 2 A Yeah, I think we've already talked 3 about various risk factors. I've given you 4 some broad approximate figures for risks 5 associated with his other exposures, whether 6 they those are occupational, environmental. 7 Beyond those and lifestyle factors, I think 8 those would be the main ones that I would 9 testify about at trial and, again, 10 associated with pulmonary diseases. 11 Q Do you believe Mr. Harvey has 12 emphysema ? 13 A No, I don't . 14 Q Does he have emphysematous changes 15 to his lungs? 16 A When I looked at his lung tissue, 17 I did not see emphysematous changes in the 18 alveoli that I looked at. They appeared to 19 be normal. 20 Q Are you familiar with others who 2 1 have looked at pathology or other clinical 22 information regarding Mr. Harvey who had (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 described emphysematous changes? 123 2 MR. MURPHY: Aside from what we 3 talked about already or - 4 MR. PURCELL: Well, that would 5 include everything. 6 MR . MURPHY: You want him to 7 answer, bring back information that we 8 talked about ? 9 MR . PURCELL: Yes. 10 THE WITNESS: Well, I think 11 most important one that I mentioned was the 12 x-ray work that was done in '95, which 13 indicated that Dr. Ong felt that there was 14 emphysema in the lung and then later on he 15 did not feel there was emphysema and myself, 16 in looking at the tissues, I didn't see 17 emphysematous changes either. 18 Q Have you read the deposition from 19 him? 20 A From Dr. Ong? 21 Q Yes . 22 A No, I have not. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 124 1 Q Have you been asked to be provided 2 copies of all the depositions of medical 3 witnesses that have been taken in the case? 4 A Yeah, I would expect I would be 5 provided those and I've asked that I be 6 given those. 7 Q Is it your understanding that 8 you've received them comprehensively? 9 A My understanding is I've received 10 everything that's available, but I'm still 11 receiving records. In fact, we just got 12 some records a couple of days ago. 1 3 Q What methods do you use to review 14 records and let me be more specific if I 15 can. The record should indicate that during 16 one of the breaks I looked the files in the 17 box, as we've referenced them. They're in 18 Redwells and individual folders and they're 19 probably at least two and a half feet lineal 20 in length, extensive documents, and as best 2 1 I could quickly look at them, you are 22 correct, I didn't see any Post-Its or {202) 38-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 125 1 notations or any kind of handwriting that I 2 would understand to be from you. 3 A Uh-huh. 4 Q I understand that you have not 5 prepared any handwritten notes or a 6 typewritten report. What I want to ask you 7 now is how do you go about going through 8 such a volume of material and considering it 9 in arriving at your opinions in a case like 10 Harvey? 11 A In a pretty similar way to how I 12 go through all medical records and records 13 that I'm provided. I'm used to going 14 through large amounts of records. I've done 15 it for years. It's just a matter of sitting 16 down and - - and reading through the records. 17 Sometimes I'll go to the index if they're 18 indexed and see what -- what the index shows 19 and I'll go to specific pages and then I'll 20 read the whole thing and usually I can read 2 1 these things fairly quickly. 22 So even though there appears to be (202) 628-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 a lot, it doesn't take that long to read 126 2 through it. A lot of it is a matter of 3 simply being acquainted with the document. 4 For example, if it's an insurance document, 5 it may be interesting that he had applied 6 for disability insurance, but beyond that 7 I'm not interested in the rest of the 8 document, so it doesn't take me very long to 9 read through or glance through a document 10 like that. What I try to do is I do that to 11 draw in my own mind a picture of what this 12 individual's lifestyle is like, what his 13 occupational history was like and so forth, 14 and that's what I've done in this case. So 15 I've described for you today that picture 16 that I have in my own mind as to what his 17 exposures may have been to materials that 18 may have led to his lung cancer and lungs 19 disease. 2 0 Q It would appear from the invoices 21 in Exhibit 1 that your record review, even 22 though they were invoiced to the Jones Day (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 1 firm in March and April, correspond to a 127 2 period of review of the records that spans 3 January and February of this year; is that 4 right ? 5 A That's correct . 6 Q Who is Mr. Chad McMullan? 7 A Mr. McMullan is a scientist that 8 works for me in the office. 9 Q What's his particular background 10 or specialty? 11 A He has a background in molecular 12 biology, environmental sciences, disease 13 development. 14 Q Have you spoken to any other 15 expert witness in this case about the Harvey 16 matter? 17 A No, I've not. 18 Q How does Mr. McMullan communicate 19 the results of his review of records to you? 20 A In a meeting typically where we 21 will sit down and have a discussion on 22 Harvey. We may have a discussion every two (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 weeks that's been scheduled and I'll sit 128 2 down with him and he'll say I've read such 3 and such record and I'll remember .that 4 record and we'll discuss that. So it's 5 another set of eyes. 6 Q Do you break down the materials by 7 any category that you yourself would review 8 and he would review others or how does that 9 work? 10 A No. In fact -- well, it depends 11 on how many materials that we have. In the 12 case of Harvey that's not a lot of 13 materials, so I would expect that he would 14 read through these, I read through all the 15 materials as well, and then we discuss them. 16 I may have an assignment for him on, you 17 know, to look and see if -- if we have 18 information on a particular risk factor, for 19 example, for welders, and he'll check and 20 see if we do. But those are discussions 21 that we have within a meeting. 22 Q Do you or he take notes during any (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 of the meetings? 129 2 A No. No, we typically discuss 3 these directly. We'll review them. There 4 have been times I have been asked to prepare 5 expert reports, that's not the case here, 6 and so I haven't written a report. If I'm 7 working on a report, typically what I'll do 8 is do an outline while we're going through 9 this, but I haven't done that here. 10 Q How much time do you believe you 11 and Mr. McMullan have spent meeting about 12 the Harvey matter together? 13 A Well, let's see. We began in 14 January and -- let me get the invoices 15 myself. We began in January and probably 16 met once or twice a month to discuss these. 17 Q Can you tell me any estimate of 18 how much of the total hours in consulting 19 time would be time where you and 20 Mr. McMullan were meeting about Harvey? 2 1 A I can't tell you a specific amount 22 of time in that -- and it really depends on (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 130 1 even how you -- you define meetings. I may 2 walk over to the desk and talk with him 3 about some issue that I've read. I don't 4 know if you would describe that as a meeting 5 or not. If you would assume that we meet 6 once or twice a month and the meeting is two 7 or three hours, then it may be, say, six 8 hours a month just as a rough estimate. 9 Q Who is the research assistant 10 identified in the invoices as part of 11 Exhibit 1? 12 A In this particular case that's 13 probably two people that are just simply 14 their hours are combined. 15 Q Okay. 16 A DebbieWilliams is the one person, 17 and Christina Burnett is the second person 18 and I believe both of these people have done 19 work on Harvey. 20 Q Did theyprepare any notes or any 2 1 writings ? 22 A No. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 131 1 Q Are any of the meetings recorded 2 in any way? 3 A No . 4 Q Does your office have a system of 5 assignment tracking? 6 A No, we don't. People submit the 7 amount of time that they worked on a project 8 and that's what you see in front of you. 9 We're a small enough group that we don't 10 have a spreadsheet or something that says, 11 you know, this person is working on this and 12 that one on that. 13 Q Are any of your colleagues Thomas 14 Sc Thomas told not to prepare notes? 15 A No. 16 Q If there were notes prepared, 17 would they be incorporated in your file 18 typically? 19 A By whom? Q By yourself or your office. A If I hadprepared notes, and like I say, I haven't on this case, if I had done (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 132 1 an outline, I was preparing a report, they 2 would be incorporated in my file. If others 3 had assignments and the assignments were to 4 prepare a set of notes on such and such, 5 they would also be on my file, but they 6 weren't assigned that. 7 Q How many clients does Thomas & 8 Thomas have? 9 A Currently? 10 Q Yes, sir. 11 A I'm not sure of the exact number, 12 but approximately a dozen. 13 Q Who are they? 14 MR. MURPHY: I'm going to object. 15 I don't know where we're going with this, 16 but it seems to be far afield and -- I mean 17 maybe if you can explain the reason why you 18 need it, but if we start to get into this 19 here, I think we're going to see it in every 20 deposition. I just want to make sure we're 21 going down the right track. 22 MR. PURCELL: I understand and if (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 133 1 the witness wants to refuse to respond, he 2 can do that. This was the subject of 3 several questions by your colleague 4 Mr. Crist in New York City earlier in the 5 week in deposing Dr. Whelan. 6 MR. MURPHY: I understand that 7 some things may be more public than others 8 and some things may be more publicized in 9 the past than others. That's all I sort of, 10 you know, get into. If I ask, you know, I 11 mean if we're saying it's good for 12 Dr. Whelan, then it's good for Dr. Thomas, 13 then it's good for Dr. Hammer or, you know, 14 good for Dr. Ong - 15 MR. PURCELL: It's not that, it's 1 6 more an area that we want to be prepared on 17 depending on how it's handled subsequently 18 and this is my discovery opportunity to 19 learn who are the clients of Thomas & 20 Thomas. 2 1 MR. MURPHY: Well, I guess if the 22 witness wants to answer, I certainly won't (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 interfere from him answering. I can't 134 2 really see where it's leading and I'm not 3 sure you told me. I think I know where it 4 leads with regard to Dr. Whelan. 5 MR. PURCELL: So maybe it leads in 6 the same direction. 7 MR. MURPHY: Well, I mean it's 8 clear when you look at the past at what 9 Dr. Whelan has done, where it leads. I 10 don't think there's any evidence that it's 11 going to lead anywhere here, but if 12 Dr. Thomas wants to answer in some way - 13 THE WITNESS: I've tried to answer 14 your questions and I'll try to answer this 15 one the best I can. Some clients I can't 16 disclose because I have confidentiality 17 agreements with them. 18 I do work in Thomas & Thomas 19 Technologies with foreign governments such 20 as the Government of Thailand, China, the 21 World Health Organization, United Nations 22 Development Program, with the Federal f 2 021 639-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 Government. Let's see. I was trying to 135 2 think if we have any current Federal 3 contracts. I have a current Federal 4 contract with the Department of Defense. We 5 don't currently had one with EPA. We've 6 done work with EPA. Food & Drug 7 Administration, Department of 8 Transportation, Coast Guard, and Department 9 of Energy. The ones that -- we've also done 10 work for local and state governments and 11 individual groups such as Northern Virginia 12 Health Alliance, which is a group of 13 hospitals and so forth, and dealing with 14 such things as terrorism and bioterrorism, 15 The ones that are most sensitive 16 about disclosure are industrial clients, but 17 I can indicate that we've done work for 18 pharmaceutical companies, for pesticide 19 companies, for, I guess you'd say cigarette 20 companies through the law firms associated 2 1 with them, and other types of companies that 22 have specialized types of materials they (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 136 1 make such as electronic companies and -- and 2 microchips and transistors, so that kinds of 3 gives you an overview of the types of work 4 we do . 5 BY MR. PURCELL: 6 Q What cigarette companies other 7 than Reynolds? 8 MR. MURPHY: Again, objection to 9 the form. I think through attorneys, I 10 believe, was his qualification. 11 THE WITNESS: The work that I have 12 done I think mostly has been with Jones Day 13 and that's been, I believe, mostly supported 14 by R.J. Reynolds. I don't believe there's 15 been other work with Thomas & Thomas. There 16 may have been some payments made by other 17 law firms through some of the testimony that 18 I've done, but I'm just not aware of those. 19 BY MR. PURCELL: 20 Q Which of these clients that you've 2 1 just enumerated other than the cigarette 22 companies have hired Thomas & Thomas or (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 yourself regarding tobacco and/or cancer 137 2 issues? 3 A So excluding the work I've done 4 for Jones Day, most of the companies that 5 I've worked for are organizations such as 6 the United Nations and World Bank and so 7 forth involve some aspects of cancer in that 8 that's one of the areas I specialize in, or 9 pulmonary diseases, sometimes such things as 10 emphysema and COPD. Some are more 11 specialized towards the development of drugs 12 and pharmaceuticals for specific products 13 and those may or may not be directly related 14 to cancer, they may be related to kidney 15 effects or something of that nature wich are 16 not cancer based. 17 Q Other than the cigarette 18 companies, which of these clients have had 19 you do work regarding tobacco? 20 MR. MURPHY: Again, objection to 21 the form. I believe he stated he worked for 22 attorneys on behalf of the cigarette (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 companies. 138 2 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure I 3 understand your question. As I understand 4 what you just asked, is if you eliminate the 5 tobacco companies what are the companies I 6 have worked for on tobacco; is that it? 7 BY MR. PURCELL: 8 Q For example, the work you've done 9 for the Thailand Government or China, did 10 any of that work have anything to do with 11 tobacco ? 12 A The work in Thailand, some of the 13 early work dealt with air pollution and 14 there was a very small tobacco component to 15 that, although that was actually eliminated 16 further on from consideration in looking at 17 the overall public health risk and the focus 18 of air pollution. 19 The work in China has not directly 2 0 dealt with tobacco or indirectly that I can 21 think of. It may be other than I've given 22 some lectures and I may have included some (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 information on tobacco in the lectures. 13 9 2 Q Same question as to the World 3 Health Organization. 4 A I haven't worked in the World 5 Health Organization on cigarette issues. 6 Q Same question with the United 7 Nations. 8 A No, not the United Nations. 9 Q Can you think of any others from 10 the list you enumerated other than tobacco 11 companies or their associated law firms or 12 some aspect of the air pollution work for 13 Thailand, any of those others that would 14 deal with tobacco? 15 A Well, tobacco is typically not the 16 main issue. They are usually interested in 17 developing a product. For example, the 18 product may be a product to treat pulmonary 19 diseases and without disclosing confidential 2 0 information, to assess that type of product, 21 I would also have to assess whether there 22 may be some confounding problems with (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 140 1 smokers. So it's not a major part of the 2 work, but it could be, while it could be a 3 minor part of the work. 4 Q Are any of the efforts of Thomas & 5 Thomas that you described for these clients 6 typically reduced to a report? 7 A It varies from client to client. 8 Depends on what the client wants. The most 9 common response is to review materials and 10 either go into their offices or have them 11 come to our offices and discuss the 12 materials, which then does not involve a 13 report. There are times that I have been 14 asked to produce reports, although that's 15 more rare than simply going through them and 16 analyzing the information and providing 17 input. 18 Q Who owns the results of the 19 efforts of Thomas & Thomas for these 2 0 clients? 21 A If a report is produced, and it's 22 paid for by the company, the company owns (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 141 1 the results. If it's simply a consulting 2 activity and input is provided, I guess 3 there's nothing to own. 4 Q Do you have a standard letter of 5 engagement or contract that Thomas & Thomas 6 enters into with any of your clients? 7 A Although we have different 8 contracts, depending on what's needed, 9 whether it's a few hours consulting or 10 whether it's a two- or three-year activity, 11 they vary from agency to agency and group to 12 group. I mean they vary widely. 13 Q Do you have copies of those in 14 your possession that you've entered into 15 with the tobacco companies or their 16 affiliated law firms? 17 MR. MURPHY: Object to the form. 18 I'm not sure "affiliated law firms" is the 19 proper way to describe the relationship and 20 it's also vague. 2 1 THE WITNESS: We have long-term 22 clients we've been involved with for years. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 Thomas & Thomas Technologies has been in 142 2 this business for over 20 years and there 3 are various types of agreements. In the 4 past I'm sure that we've received letters of 5 request. Sometimes their cover letters to 6 materials such as those that are sent saying 7 these are the medical records for your 8 analysis. That constitutes an agreement for 9 us because we have an ongoing relationship. 10 Some of the agreements are more a typical 11 contract where it's a two-year contract for 12 half a million dollars and we're supposed to 13 provide so many hours of consulting and may 14 or may not produce a report. 15 Like I say, it's very difficult to 16 respond because they vary tremendously and 1 7 we've received written assignments from the 18 law firms just as we have from others and 19 the - - 20 BY MR. PURCELL: 2 1 Q Did you - - 22 A We've -- we've discussed rates and (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 143 1 so forth and come to an agreement and that's 2 kind of where we stand. Specific to Harvey 3 we've been asked to do certain things. 4 We've talked about the time period, the 5 payment, and there's been an agreement to go 6 ahead with it. 7 Q Have you produced all of the 8 documents that would be responsive to the 9 Notice of Taking Deposition and Request for 10 Production of Documents and Things at 11 Deposition which is part of Exhibit 1 in 12 this case? 13 A X tried to produce everything that 14 was physically possible to produce. For 15 example, I brought these documents in. It 16 requested a copy of my CV, which I provided 17 to the attorneys, billing records which I 18 provided to you. There are some documents 19 that are so expansive such as all of the 20 scientific publications that I've reviewed 21 over the years that are tens of thousands of 22 articles and it would be impossible to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 144 1 provide to you, so what I've tried to do is 2 provide to you some of the main references 3 that I would use. I've tried to be 4 responsive to this as much as I could. 5 Q Have you produced all notes, 6 memoranda, correspondence, reports e-mails 7 or faxes sent between you and anyone else in 8 the case? 9 A Yes, what I have provided is in 10 that box and I guess in this folder. 11 Q Are there any correspondence, 12 memoranda from Thomas & Thomas in the box 13 because there doesn't appear to be any in 14 Exhibit 1? 15 A I think the only thing that, we 16 had started working this in January, and 17 we've got the billing records and those are 18 the only things that have been provided 19 back. We have not done a report for this. 20 Q Was your assignment communicated 21 to you and/or Thomas & Thomas only orally by 22 Jones Day in this case? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 A Yes. . 145 2 Q Do you have a letter of engagement 3 or retainer that you're operating under in 4 the Harvey case with either R.J. Reynolds or 5 Jones Day? 6 A We were given a very specific 7 assignment which I think is described in the 8 disclosure and discussed that in January 9 when we started this and since that time 10 we've been provided information and have 11 billed based on that information. That's 12 consistent with how we've -- we do work with 13 clients that are ongoing clients and have 14 been for years. 15 Q Getting back to my question, is 16 there a retainer or letter of engagement 17 with Jones Day or Reynolds in the Harvey 18 case ? 19 A No, that's not typically how we do 20 that - 21 Q What information do you need to 22 know to get involved in a tobacco case for (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 Jones Day or Reynolds? 146 2 A I typically request all the 3 medical records and depositions and expert 4 reports that may be associated with the 5 disease and I will do a preliminary review 6 of those and then we will discuss the extent 7 to which we'll continue our review. There 8 have been times when I've been sent even a 9 selected set of medical records. I've 10 glanced through them and said well, this is 11 something that looks interesting for me to 12 review this, however, if you so want me to 13 review it, I'll have to have a complete set 14 and they will send me a complete set. So I 15 try to get a preliminary indication as to 16 what some of the issues are and whether it's 17 something I'm interested in. 18 Q Have you been asked in your 19 tasking with Jones Day to communicate with 20 them only orally about the case? 2 1 A No. 22 Q Is that your understanding of how (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 they wish you to proceed? 147 2 A Well, with any client, whether 3 it's Jones Day or Dow Chemical or Pfizer 4 Pharmaceutical, we would not go outside of 5 the analysis that we were doing and discuss 6 our review with anybody outside of our 7 company without prior permission from the 8 client. Same thing would be true actually 9 with the Environmental Protection Agency or 10 with others. We would seek their approval 11 in that they're paying for the analysis and 12 they have concerns about some of the 13 information being released before they have 14 seen it. 15 Q That's not my question. 16 A I'm sorry. I thought that was. 17 Q My question was do you have an 18 understanding that you are to communicate 19 with Jones Day in the Harvey matter only 2 0 orally? 21 MR. MURPHY: Do you want him to 22 answer that new question? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 14 8 1 MR. PURCELL: Or we can read back 2 the prior one. 3 MR. MURPHY: You've switched the 4 words and I'm just objecting to your 5 preface. It's a different question and I 6 think your other question was vague and 7 that 1s fine. 8 MR. PURCELL: We can go back and 9 read back the prior one. That's fine. 10 MR. MURPHY: I'm prewarning you 11 that it's vague and he already gave an 12 answer to the one, interpretations of it. 13 (The reporter read the record as 14 requested.) 15 THE WITNESS: Yeah, and I think I 16 answered that. That 1s my understanding of 17 how they or any client would wish me to 18 proceed. 19 BY MR. PURCELL: 2 0 Q That you were to communicate with 21 them only orally, not in writing unless 22 asked; is that correct? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 A No . 149 2 MR. MURPHY: Objection. That's 3 what goes back to there was a vague question 4 which was only with Jones Day and that's the 5 one X thought you wanted read back and 6 that's why the answer was as it was. 7 THE WITNESS: No, that's not what 8 I said. 9 BY MR. PURCELL: 10 Q I know it's not what you said. 11 I'm trying to find out what the answer is to 12 my question. 13 Do you have an understanding that 14 you are to communicate the results of your 15 consulting work in the Harvey matter only 16 orally to Jones Day? 17 A Do I have an understanding? I 18 don't know what you mean by that. I think 19 what I've described is how we do our work 20 for various clients, including Jones Day, 21 and based on the specific assignment that we 22 received from them, we're working to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 complete that assignment. They have not 150 2 told me not to take notes or those types of 3 things, so that's -- if that's what you're 4 trying to get at, but what we're doing for 5 them is I think my answer is consistent with 6 what we do for any client based on the 7 assignment. 8 Q Have you sent any letters to Jones 9 Day regarding Harvey? 10 A No. 11 Q Have you or your office prepared 12 any writings whatsoever in connection with 13 the Harvey matter other than the two 14 invoices attached as part of Exhibit 1? 15 MR. MURPHY: If I could just 16 interject, you can squabble over who 17 prepared it, but those other list of cases 18 and the other list was, in a sense, prepared 19 for this matter. 2 0 BY MR. PURCELL: 2 1 Q Yeah, setting aside anything in 22 Exhibit 1, anything else? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 151 1 A No, I haven't prepared anything 2 other than what we have here. 3 Q Nor has anyone at Thomas & Thomas? 4 A No. 5 Q Why don't you take any notes when 6 you review extensive documents in a case 7 like this? 8 A That's not how I work. I haven't 9 worked that way for years. It may be that 10 I'm used to reading these types of 11 documents, but unless, like I say, I have to 12 produce a report, of which I will actually 13 start an outline while I read, I don't take 14 notes. 15 Q How did you know when you were 16 originally contacted in Harvey that you were 1 7 not expected to prepare a written report? 18 A Like I say, the description of - 19 of what I was asked to do is right here and 2 0 it didn't indicate that I had to prepare a 21 written report. I don't know in Harvey if I 22 had asked, but one of the questions that I _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ (202) 63S-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 152 1 typically do ask is if I need to prepare a 2 written report and I may have asked that on 3 Harvey. I actually don't remember. But 4 there was a disclosure which was prepared 5 which I actually reviewed but didn't write. 6 Q By the way, in your prior 7 reference you're referencing the expert from 8 the disclosure of expert witnesses submitted 9 by Philip Morris and Reynolds in the Harvey 10 case. When did you review the language 11 first? 12 A I'm not sure. I've got to assume 13 that it was some time in February, but I'm 14 not sure when I reviewed it first. I'd have 15 to look and see when this was actually 16 submitted. It was probably shortly before 17 this was submitted. 18 Q Is it your testimony that you 19 reviewed this specific language in this 2 0 designation about your testimony prior to 21 receiving any information to review in the 22 Harvey case? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 153 1 MR. MURPHY: Objection. I think 2 that misstates what he said. 3 THE WITNESS: No, that's not 4 correct. In fact, much of what is in that 5 box. we had already received when I reviewed 6 that statement. 7 BY MR. PURCELL: 8 Q When did you receive the materials 9 that are in the box? 10 MR. MURPHY: Objection. Asked and 11 answered probably within the first ten 12 minutes this morning. 13 THE WITNESS: Most of those 14 materials were sent in January. They may 15 not have been sent over at the same time, 16 but most of them were delivered in January. 17 BY MR. PURCELL: 18 Q How did you know that you weren1t 19 to prepare a written report at the time you 2 0 received those materials first and started 21 reviewing them? 22 A Like I say, I was basically asked (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 154 1 to review these and I probably asked at the 2 beginning whether there was going to be any 3 written report produced. 4 Q What were you told? 5 A What was I told? I don't know. I 6 assume that I was told it was simply a 7 disclosure and at some point I would be able 8 to review, but that's just supposition 9 because I don't -- I wasn't asked to prepare 10 a report and I haven't done one. 11 Q Have you formed any opinion as to 12 whether or not Mr. Harvey was ever addicted 13 to cigarette smoking? 14 A No, I haven'treally formed an 15 opinion about that. That wasn't one of the 16 issues I was asked to look at. 17 Q In 1994 did you consider nicotine 18 to be addictive? 19 A In 1994? 2 0 Q Yes . 21 MR. MURPHY: I'm going to object 22 on the grounds of relevance. My (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 155 X understanding is that's within a time period 2 that's not relevant to the case, but subject 3 to that you can go ahead and answer. 4 THE WITNESS: Depends on -- again, 5 these are terms such as, we used cause 6 earlier, addiction is a term that's widely 7 used, improperly used. There are scientific 8 descriptions of addiction. I mean there are 9 other terms that, such as habituation that 10 are actually closer to what Mr. Harvey's 11 situation was. 12 He stopped smoking for -- three 13 different times for about a year and-a-half. 14 That would indicate to me that he was not 15 "addicted" depending on how that's defined 16 to cigarettes, that he could give it up as 17 he wished and then pick it back up again, 18 BY MR. PURCELL: 19 Q Is it your view that anyone who is 20 successful in quitting smoking was never 2 1 addicted to nicotine? 22 A No, that's -- that's not what I (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 156 1 said. What I said was that, is that in his 2 particular case he seemed to be able to stop 3 for an extended time period cold turkey, if 4 you will, without continuing to smoke and so 5 he did not seem to have what we would 6 consider the classical addiction that you 7 find in some drugs that are addictive such 8 as heroin and so forth. So, no, I didn't 9 widen that to other people in that some 10 people have a lot of difficulty stopping 11 their smoking and some people seem to have 12 less difficulty and -- but it's not an area 13 that I focused on in my analysis, it's not 14 an area that I particularly dealt with 15 before. All I'm responding to you is based 16 on my scientific knowledge having studied 17 this in school and having been involved in 18 pharmacological studies. 19 Q In 1994 did you believe nicotine 20 was not addictive? 21 MR. MURPHY: Same objection. 22 Relevance. I think the plaintiffs' (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 157 1 pleadings suggest that that's a time period 2 that's not at issue in this case. 3 THE WITNESS: I don't know what 4 the focus is of 1994 on nicotine, but 5 nicotine does not appear to follow the 6 classical types of addictive responses that 7 other materials are highly addictive. Like 8 I say, if it were, people that smoked would 9 have a very difficult time giving up smoking 10 and some people are able to stop smoking 11 without too much difficulty. So it just 12 doesn't follow the classical level of 13 addictive response. 14 BY MR. PURCELL: 15 Q Today do you believe nicotine is 16 not addictive? 17 A Well, like I say - 18 MR. MURPHY: Objection on 19 relevance. 20 THE WITNESS: It's not something 21 I've looked at, but from what I know, 22 certainly from the studies I've read on the (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 behavior of people that have stopped 158 2 smoking, it doesn't appear to be the 3 classical addictive material. It falls more 4 in what we call habitual rather than 5 addictive, where the people develop habits 6 in using it. 7 BY MR. PURCELL: 8 Q Name three substances that you 9 believe are addictive. 10 A Well, heroin is addictive, 11 morphine is addictive, several of the 12 painkillers can be addictive, Percocet is 13 addictive, and people become addicted to 14 those and have difficulty stopping. 15 Q In the same sense that you used 16 the term "addictive" regarding heroin, 17 morphine, painki11ers/Percocet, do you 18 believe nicotine to be addictive? 19 A No, it doesn't fit the classical 2 0 addiction that these others are. Now, that 2 1 doesn't mean that some people have 22 difficulty in stop smoking and that some (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 159 1 people have to use such things as nicotine 2 patches, again, this is outside of my 3 expertise, but that's common knowledge, that 4 some people need to use nicotine patches to 5 stop smoking and some people are able to 6 stop cold turkey. 7 Q What diseases do you acknowledge 8 cigarettes cause? 9 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 10 form . 11 THE WITNESS: Well, again there 12 are a lot of diseases that have risks 13 related to cigarette smoking. We've talked 14 about cancer, lung cancers. Depending on 15 the type of lung cancer, some have a higher 16 risk, some have a lower risk. 17 Cardiovascular disease is -- has a risk 18 related to lung -- or cigarette smoking, 19 emphysema is another one. There are 20 reproductive effects that are related to 21 cigarette smoking such as low birth rate in 22 children, there are some other cancers that (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 depending on the study may or may not be 160 2 related to cigarette smoking such as kidney 3 cancer. Depends on the study and whether 4 you believe the statistical relationship. I 5 think those are some of the main ones that 6 people associate with cigarette smoking. 7 BY MR. PURCELL: 8 Q I'm interested to know 9 specifically what diseases you. Dr. Thomas, 10 acknowledge cigarettes cause. Would those 11 that you've just indicated fit into that 12 category? 13 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 14 form. 15 THE WITNESS: Well, if you mean by 16 cause that there is a consistent statistical 17 association between these diseases and 18 cigarette smoking, then you can say there's 19 a causal relationship, but, again, we don't 2 0 know the relationship biologically between a 21 lot of these that appear to be increased 22 levels of disease associated statistically (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 161 1 with cigarette smoking because we don't have 2 any laboratory animal models to study as we 3 do for probably asbestos and some of the 4 other ones we mentioned earlier. 5 Q Of the clients that you have at 6 Thomas & Thomas, which is the largest in 7 revenue in the last three years? 8 A I'm just trying to think back. 9 This past year I'm not sure, but if I go 10 back the two previous years, I'd probably 11 have to say the Federal Government is the 12 largest revenue producer, the World Health 13 Organization, maybe not the World Health, 14 the World Bank. 15 Q How does tobacco companies 16 compare ? 17 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 18 form. We've gone over this. He works for 19 attorneys in these cases. 20 THE WITNESS: I'm trying to think 21 of an approximate figure. It's hard to 22 separate out the tobacco litigation from (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 162 1 other types of -- of work that we do with 2 attorneys because tobacco is not the only 3 area that we do some legal work in. I would 4 say over the last few years for the most 5 part it represented less than 25 percent of 6 our work, maybe less than 20 percent as just 7 a guestimate. 8 Q In terms revenue? 9 A In terms of revenue. 10 Q In the Engle matter in April 11 of 1999 you were asked about how much you 12 had billed in that case and it was in the 13 neighborhood of 360 or 370,000 to Reynolds 14 and there is a discussion about total and 15 it's unclear to me whether Mr. Rosenblatt 16 was accurate or inaccurate in describing it 17 to be in the neighborhood of 5 million or 18 closer to 3 million. Without subscribing to 19 any of my observations, just to alert you to 20 the issue, what I'd like to ask you today is 2 1 what is the accurate figure in the ballpark 22 total that Thomas & Thomas and/or yourself (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 have received from tobacco companies 163 2 directly or through lawyers like Jones Day? 3 MR. MURPHY: Over the whole course 4 of time he's done work for lawyers? 5 MR. PURCELL: Since his initial 6 tasking in this area and in the mid 1980s. 7 THE WITNESS: First of all, I 8 receive a salary. I don't receive separate 9 revenue based on who the clients are. If 10 there's money left over at the end of the 11 year after we finished our work, I get a 12 bonus, so my amount that I get doesn't 13 really vary that much. What he asked me 14 about -- Thomas & Thomas and -- and any 15 associated groups, about the best we could 16 come up with in Engle was we tried to go 17 back some 18 years or so, 17 years at that 18 point. Again, the 3 to $4 million figure 19 seemed to be approximately correct. That's 20 about the best we could do. I mean you have 2 1 to realize we've had hundreds of clients 22 over that time period and trying to separate (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 164 1 one set of clients out from the others when 2 that does not represent a majority of the 3 work that we do is difficult. 4 BY MR. PURCELL: 5 Q How much have you received in 6 revenue, Thomas & Thomas, from tobacco or 7 related law firms since April of 1999? 8 A I have no idea. 9 Q How many tobacco-related matters 10 do you presently have open at Thomas & 11 Thomas ? 12 A I don't know how many there's 13 actually being examined. At any one time, I 14 guess the best way I can answer that 15 there's, in the last two or three years, 16 which is what you're asking about, there may 17 be three or four that are fairly active, 18 Harvey being one of those. We have other 19 work we have to do, too. 2 0 Q What is the approximate average 21 billing from Thomas & Thomas in an active 2 2 tobacco matter such as Harvey? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 165 1 A Well, I think that's represented 2 in those invoices that you've got in front 3 of you. 4 Q Do you or your wife own any 5 tobacco stock? 6 A Not to my knowledge. I don't 7 think we do unless some of the mutual funds 8 that we may own in our retirement plan owns 9 some tobacco stock, but we don't own any 10 directly. 11 Q Have you received any stock in any 12 way from Reynolds or another tobacco firm as 13 compensation for any work that you've done 14 at Thomas & Thomas for them? 15 A No . 16 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 17 form. I think it misstated his relationship 18 in how he gets compensated. 1 9 BY MR. PURCELL: 2 0 Q Have you ever determined or had 2 1 the opinion that smoking assists digestion? 22 A That smoking does what? I didn't (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTXNG 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 understand your question. 166 2 Q That smoking assists digestion. 3 MR. MURPHY: Objection on the 4 grounds of relevance. 5 THE WITNESS: Again, this is not 6 an area that I've looked at recently, but if 7 you go back to some of the older studies, 8 there are indications in some of the older 9 studies that tobacco and tobacco products 10 may assist in digestion not only in humans 11 but in animals. One of the first uses of 12 tobacco was in farm animals to help farm 13 animals in digesting crops and so forth. 14 That 1s been something that's been around 15 for 50 years or so. 16 BY MR. PURCELL: 17 Q Do you believe that smoking 18 cigarettes has ever been shown to assist 19 human digestion? 2 0 A Not that I'm aware of. 2 1 Q Do you know what Star Cure tobacco 22 is? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 167 1 A I've heard the term. I don't 2 remember what it refers to. 3 Q Have you been involved in any 4 testing of that product? 5 A Like I say, I -- since I don't 6 remember what it refers to, I'm not sure. 7 In the testing that we were involved in with 8 beagle dogs we had standardized tobacco that 9 was supplied to us, but I'm not sure what 10 the term -- I don't remember what the term 11 "Star" means. 12 Q You said you had heard the term. 13 What do you recall the context being where 14 you had heard the term? 15 A I don't. 16 Q Have you ever been involved in the 17 research of any additives to any Reynolds 18 products ? 19 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 2 0 form. 2 1 BY MR. PURCELL: 22 Q Additives to any of their tobacco (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 product s. 168 2 A No, I have not been involved in 3 research on additives for any Reynolds 4 tobacco products. 5 BY MR. PURCELL: 6 Q Have you ever been provided a 7 memorandum from Jones Day regarding 8 strategies in defending tobacco - related 9 personal injury cases? 10 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 11 form. I think that mischaracterizes the 12 nature of any document that exists and I 13 think if I know the document that you're 14 talking about, it's an attorney/client and 15 work-product privilege document, so we 16 obviously wouldn't provide it outside of our 17 law firm and clients and those in a joint 18 defense with us and we're not going to 19 answer questions about it. 20 If you want him to answer that 21 question, he can, but we're not going to 22 talk about privileged and protected (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 documents at this deposition. 169 2 THE WITNESS: What was the 3 question again? 4 BY MR. PURCELL: 5 Q Have you ever been provided or 6 seen a memoranda from Jones Day detailing 7 the strategy for defending tobacco-related 8 personal injury cases? 9 MR. MURPHY: Same objection and, 10 again, mischaracterization. 11 THE WITNESS: No, not to my 12 knowledge. 13 BY MR. PURCELL: 14 Q Have you ever been provided any 15 memoranda from Jones Day? 16 A Concerning what? 17 Q Anything. 18 A You mean transmittal of records 19 or - - 20 Q Anything. 21 A Yeah, I could very well have been 22 given memoranda transmitting records or (202} 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 describing a set of medical records or 170 2 something of that nature that were provided 3 to me. I'm sure that I've gotten some of 4 those. 5 Q Is it your business practice to 6 keep or retain them? 7 A Usually we retain records for - 8 on active projects we retain records usually 9 for three years and then they're destroyed, 10 so if materials are transmitted to us with a 11 memorandum, we usually keep them so we know 12 what materials were transmitted. 13 Q Who established your document 14 retention policy? 15 A That's been a document retention 16 policy we've had for at least 15 years and 17 it was established based on what most 18 scientific firms do that handle large 19 amounts of scientific literature. 2 0 Q Getting back to my question, who 2 1 established it at Thomas & Thomas? 22 A Well, I'm the chief executive (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 officer for Thomas & Thomas, so I was 171 2 probably the one who signed it and it was 3 reviewed by other staff and agreed upon and, 4 like I said, it's -- my guess is it's 5 about 15 years ago. 6 Q Is it your testimony that you 7 established it? 8 A I would assume that I did. I 9 haven't looked at it for years. We simply 10 have a policy that we follow and -- and we 11 have for years that covers everybody that we 12 do work for. 13 Q What's your recollection of the 14 source of the three-year period? 15 A That's consistent with what most 16 scientific organizations do the type of 17 review that we do. I think the National 18 Academy of Sciences had a three-year policy 19 and I believe EPA may have a three-year 20 policy as well of disposing of documents and 2 1 then financial documents are usually 22 maintained a bit longer for tax purposes. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 It's based on tax codes and so forth. 172 2 Q To your recollection did Reynolds 3 or any other tobacco company or affiliated 4 law firm have any input in establishing the 5 Thomas & Thomas document retention policy? 6 A No, they would not. 7 Q When you've conducted your review 8 of literature, historically, in connection 9 with forming the opinions you intend to 10 express regarding historical research on 11 cancer from cigarette smoke, have you 12 reviewed documents and studies that came 13 from any tobacco company? 14 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 15 form. 16 THE WITNESS: I don't believe so. 17 The documents that we reviewed are documents 18 that are published in the scientific 19 literature and that's what we focused on 20 and -- and those are documents that we 21 obtained ourselves through or own literature 22 searches, through our own sending people to (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 the library and so forth. 173 2 BY MR. PURCELL: 3 Q In your review of these historical 4 documents have you come across any instance 5 where you believed a misrepresentation about 6 the state of medicine or science was made? 7 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 8 on many levels. Vague, ambiguous. 9 THE WITNESS: I don't even know 10 how to answer your question. It seems like 11 you're asking me to make a judgment call on 12 tens of thousands of articles as to what one 13 specific one may have said versus another 14 one. Is that what you're asking? 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q In your review of historical 17 articles, medical and scientific, have you 18 come across any instance of 19 misrepresentation? 20 MR. MURPHY: Same objection. 21 THE WITNESS: Let me answer it 22 this way: The articles that I have reviewed (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 174 1 are published in the peer review literature 2 and have been through peer review. The 3 intention of the peer review is to eliminate 4 misrepresentations in the appropriate 5 analyses or incomplete analyses and other 6 flaws in these articles before they were 7 published. I assume that -- that they have 8 been successful in doing that. That doesn't 9 mean that one article -- that every article 10 is consistent with the other article. 11 That's not how science is done. In fact, 12 scientists debate and so there will be 13 inconsistencies and I have to accept the 14 fact that the peer review process has been 15 very -- fairly successful in taking out 16 misrepresentations. But that doesn't mean 17 I'd even agree with every conclusion that 18 article reached because I'm a scientist. 19 I'll do my own analysis. 2 0 Q In 1954 was there any proof that 2 1 cigarette smoking was one of the causes of 22 lung cancer? (202; 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 175 1 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 2 of the question. 3 THE WITNESS: Was there any proof? 4 If you're referring to skin-painting 5 studies, there were indications in 6 skin-painting studies that there may be an 7 association and that was shortly after the 8 publication of the five epidemiologic 9 studies in 1950, but that's about it. There 10 was an attempt to reproduce one of those 11 studies and those were are mainly ongoing 12 about '54. 13 BY MR. PURCELL: 14 Q In 1954 was there proof that 15 cigarette smoking was one of the causes of 16 lung cancer? 17 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 18 of the question. I think that proof in both 19 of these questions is somewhat vague. 2 0 THE WITNESS: Let me put it this 21 way: In 1954 there was no agreement among 22 scientists that I've seen that we knew what (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 the cause of lung cancer associated with 176 2 cigarette smoking was, including the author 3 that published the skin-paining studies. 4 BY MR. PURCELL: 5 Q In your opinion is it accurate to 6 say in 1954 that there was no proof that 7 cigarette smoking is one of the causes of 8 lung cancer? 9 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 10 form. Vague. 11 THE WITNESS: I think I've already 12 answered that. I just got through answering 13 that question. 14 BY MR. PURCELL: 15 Q In 1954 was it accurate to say 16 that there is no proof that cigarette 17 smoking is one of the causes of lung cancer? 18 Yes or no? 19 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 20 form. Objection to the direction on how to 21 answer the question. 22 THE WITNESS: Like I said, I (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 177 1 answered your question, probably answered it 2 twice. In 1954 the main things that we have 3 were the skin-painting studies and the 4 epidemiologic studies that were published. 5 Those were initial indications that there 6 may be a statistical association, although 7 the skin-painting studies did not get us any 8 closer to that association. Those were 9 indications that there may be an 10 association. That's about the best I can 11 tell you in 154. 12 BY MR. PURCELL: 13 Q In your view there was some proof? 14 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 15 form. I think using proof in that way is 16 vague and misleading. 1 7 THE WITNESS: From a scientific 18 standpoint -- I don't know how you're going 19 to define proof, but from a scientific 20 standpoint, we did not have any biological 21 supporting information to show that there 22 was a relationship. If you're calling that (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 178 1 proof, then I would have to say that there 2 was not proof in 1954, but there certainly 3 was not a biological basis to be able to tie 4 the two together. 5 BY MR. PURCELL: 6 Q In your opinion was Reynolds 7 correct in asserting in 1954 that there was 8 no proof that cigarette smoking is one of 9 the causes of lung cancer? 10 MR. MURPHY: Object to the form of 11 the question. That assertion was made by 12 not Reynolds, but an entity that Reynolds 13 belonged to, as well as many other entities 14 that belonged to it. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't know what 16 you're reading from. 17 BY MR, PURCELL: 18 Q It doesn't matter. What I'm 19 interested to know is your view on the 20 statement. Can you answer that? 2 1 A Well, again, those are not - 22 proof is not the word that I would use. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 That was the initial stage of trying to 179 " 2 understand whether, in fact, there was a 3 statistical association between smoking and 4 lung cancer and there was no biological 5 "proof" that there was in 1954. So if 6 somebody wanted to pull that statement out 7 and make that statement, that probably would 8 be consistent with the science at the time 9 the statement was made. 10 Q In your - 11 A It's not a scientific statement. 12 It's more of a policy type statement. 13 Q In your assessment as a scientist 14 is it misleading in any way to make that 15 assertion in 1954? 16 A No, it's not misleading. 17 Q Was there any evidence suggesting 18 that tobacco products manufactured by 19 Reynolds in 1954 were in any way injurious 20 to health? 21 MR. MURPHY: I'm sorry. Can I get 22 at least the first part of the question read (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 back? 180 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I don't -- I 3 don't think I understand how this all ties 4 together. 5 (The reporter read the record as 6 requested.) 7 THE WITNESS: Well, that requires 8 a bit of a leap in that I've already 9 mentioned the epidemiologic studies that 10 were conducted on cigarettes, how those 11 related to R.J. Reynolds products I don't 12 know, just the fact that they were 13 cigarettes, and that was initial 14 epidemiologic evidence that there may be a 15 statistical association. That's about the 16 best I can answer your question. 17 BY MR. PURCELL: 18 Q Do you believe that Reynolds has 19 cooperated closely with those whose task it 20 is to safeguard the public health 21 consistently? 22 A I have no way of -- of answering (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 181 1 that. I don't know -- I don't know all the 2 interactions that Reynolds had over the 3 years with -- with the public or federal 4 agencies and so I have no way of answering 5 that . 6 BY MR. PURCELL: 7 Q You have seen advertisements from 8 tobacco companies, have you not? 9 A Uh-huh. 10 Q Is that yes? 11 A Yes . 12 Q As a scientist,have you ever seen 13 an ad from Philip Morris or Reynolds about 14 cigarettes and smoking that you felt 15 misrepresented any facts? 16 A Mot to my knowledge. I am not an 17 expert in advertising and, frankly, I don't 18 look very much to advertisements and haven't 19 for years, so I wouldn't pay much attention 2 0 to cigarette ads from either company, so 21 it's -- it's outside of my expertise. 22 Q I was more askingfor your (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 experience as someone who 1s seen 182 2 advertisement from those companies. Have 3 you ever seen one that struck you as 4 misrepresenting facts? 5 A Well, like I say, not that I 6 remember. I don't pay a lot of attention to 7 advertisements. 8 Q When did the World Health 9 Organization issue a report stating that 10 cigarette smoke was a cause of lung cancer? 11 A The most complete report that was 12 done by the World Health Organization was 13 published by the International Cancer 14 Research Association, which is referred to 15 as IARC, and I believe that was published 16 in 1986 and that was another serial analysis 1 7 of cigarette smoking and epidemiologic 18 studies and laboratory animal studies and so 19 forth had been conducted. I think that's 20 probably the best response to your question. 2 1 Q Is it your testimony that the 1986 22 IARC paper is the first report issued by the (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 World Health Organization stating that 183 2 cigarette smoke was a cause of lung cancer? 3 A No, that's not what I said. 4 Q Getting back to my question, then, 5 when did the World Health Organization first 6 issue a report stating that cigarette smoke 7 was a cause of lung cancer? 8 A Well, again, we have the same 9 debate about cause that we have had previous 10 today as to how cause is defined. The World 11 Health Organization -- first ones I remember 12 seeing are back in the late 1970s and there 13 may have been one towards the end of 14 the '60s, but I'm -- I haven't looked at it 15 for a while. But in the 1970s the World 16 Health Organization and particularly relying 17 on some of the advice of Richard Doll 18 published reports to the effect that there 19 was an association between cigarette smoking 20 and that there was also a dose response. 21 The more a person smoked, the more 22 likelihood they were of developing cancer. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 184 1 Now, these epidemiologists over 2 that time period have all made it clear that 3 these were statistical associations of risk 4 factors and have often not used cause and 5 effect. Peto in his work for the World 6 Health Organization made it clear that 7 epidemiology cannot alone establish cause. 8 Q Is the answer is you don't know 9 when the World Health Organization first 10 issued a report? 11 A I think I just got through telling 12 you. When they issued their first report? 13 Q Yes . 14 A Well, right now I don't know when 15 they issued their first report. I'd have to 16 go back and look. 17 Q Is it your recollection that it 18 was - - 19 A Can we take a break for a minute 20 so I can stretch? 21 MR. PURCELL: Sure. 22 (Recess) (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 BY MR. PURCELL: 185 2 Q Back on the record, doctor. Do 3 you believe the first report from the World 4 Health Organization stating that cigarette 5 smoke was a cause of lung cancer was before 6 or after 1957? 7 A I think it was after 1957. 8 Q What year was it that in your view 9 science accepted that cigarette smoking 10 causes lung cancer? 11 A Again, it's based on how cause is 12 defined. I think that there was a consensus 13 surrounding the Surgeon General's report 14 in '64 that there was sufficient 15 epidemiologic evidence to say from a, 16 certainly from a public health standpoint, 17 that cigarettes do cause lung cancer and I 18 would agree that that's true, that those 19 epidemiologic studies are strong. We 2 0 certainly saw that in '64. However, the '64 2 1 report still made it clear that they weren't 22 using cause in the absolute sense of the (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 word and explained that we did need to 186 2 develop laboratory animal models and did 3 need to try to understand what was causing 4 the increase if -- accepting that the 5 statistical increase was being caused by 6 cigarette smoking. 7 Q You're well familiar with Sir 8 Richard Doll, epidemiologist from England? 9 A Yes . 10 Q You respect hisabilities as an 11 epidemiologist ? 12 A Yes . 13 Q When didSir Richard Doll say that 14 science accepted that cigarette smoked 15 caused lung cancer? 16 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 17 form. I think it depends on when you asked 18 him . 19 THE WITNESS: I don't even know 20 how to answer that question. Sir Richard 21 Doll has published numerous articles on 22 these issues. In fact, Doll and Peto have (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 187 1 published together and my understanding of 2 those articles in reading Doll and Peto is 3 that they've made it pretty clear that there 4 are epidemiological and, as we approached 5 the '60s, growing statistical evidence that 6 there was an association between cigarette 7 smoking and lung cancer, but that that was 8 insufficient, inadequate. So that's my 9 understanding of what both of them had to 10 say. 11 Q I'm looking for a year. 12 A Well, I don't know what year 13 you're looking for. 14 MR. MURPHY: I object to the form 15 of the question because it implies that 16 there is only one year and I believe that 17 Sir Richard Doll has varied in his responses 18 to those questions both in writings and 19 under oath. 2 0 BY MR. PURCELL: 2 1 Q The year that Dr. Doll, Sir 22 Richard Doll said science had accepted (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 188 1 cigarette smoking as a cause of lung cancer. 2 A I don't know which statement 3 you're referring to. If you want to give me 4 the statement, I'd be happy to read it. 5 Q "Science accepts that cigarette 6 smoking causes lung cancer." When did Sir 7 Richard Doll say that occurred? 8 A I have no idea. 9 MR. MURPHY: It sounds like a 10 jeopardy question. 11 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I have 12 no idea. If you want to show me a 13 publication of his where he says that, then 14 maybe we can discuss what he's saying. 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q Do you know? 17 A Do I know what? 18 Q When he says, "Science accepted 19 that cigarette smoking caused lung cancer." 2 0 A Out of all of the articles he's 21 published over the years, I couldn't tell 22 you when he made that statement. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 Q It's not when he made the 18 9 2 statement, it's when he said science made 3 that acceptance. Do you know what year? 4 A I can say I have no idea. 5 MR. MURPHY: Same objections. I 6 think that Sir Richard Doll has said that 7 that has occurred at different times in 8 different statements that he's said in 9 different places. So to the extent that 10 you're implying that there's only one time 11 he has said science has made that 12 acceptance, I object and X think that that's 13 misleading. 14 BY MR. PURCELL: 15 Q Do you have anything else to say? 16 A No . 17 Q Who is Dr . Alan Rodgman? 18 A Let ' s see. Rodgman was a 19 researcher. I don't know very much about 20 Rodgman, but I guess he was a researcher at 2 1 R.J. Reynolds at one point. 22 Q Has he ever published anything in (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 the medical and scientific community 190 2 regarding tobacco and cancer? 3 A You mean in peer review scientific 4 literature? 5 Q Anywhere in public. 6 A When I took a look for 7 Dr. Rodgman's publications in peer-reviewed 8 scientific literature, I didn't find any. 9 He has made statements in more popular press 10 and so forth, but in peer-reviewed 11 scientific literature, when I looked to see 12 what he had published, I didn't see any 13 publications. 14 Q How did you first learn of him? 15 A His name has come up from time to 16 in certainly tobacco litigation and 17 newspaper and, like I said, he's made a lot 18 of public standpoints. 19 Q What's your understanding - 20 A But I don't know a lot about 2 1 Mr. or Dr. Rodgman though other than he was 22 simply a researcher. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-23 82 (703) 684-2382 191 1 Q What is your understanding of when 2 he at the Reynolds Research Department told 3 Reynolds that cigarettes and tobacco caused 4 cancer ? 5 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 6 form. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't know what 8 you're referring to. Again, that would be 9 internal company discussions. It's not 10 peer-reviewed scientific literature, which 11 is what I've reviewed. 12 BY MR. PURCELL: 13 Q When did R.J. Reynolds first 14 publicly indicate that cigarettes caused 15 lung cancer? 16 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 17 form. I think it's vague, ambiguous and 18 misleading. 19 THE WITNESS: I don't know. Like 20 I say, that's not my area of expertise. I 21 haven't followed that company's public 22 statements or any other company -- public (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 192 1 statements by companies on products. That's 2 not the area that I work in. I do research. 3 BY MR. PURCELL: 4 Q Have you ever been asked to do 5 work with IARC? 6 A Yes . 7 Q Did that involvetobacco? 8 A I wasnot involved in the 1986 9 report that IARC produced. I'm trying to 10 remember back the work I've done with them. 11 I did some work on mixtures AND one of the 12 mixtures that was discussed was tobacco 13 smoke, but that was a minor part of the 14 whole project. 15 Q When was that? 16 A In the early '80s,mid '80s best I 17 can remember. 18 Q Who did you deal with at IARC in 19 that respect? 20 A I have no idea. 21 Q Who asked you tobecome involved 22 from IARC? (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 A I don't remember. 193 2 Q What was his or her position? 3 A Like I said, I don't remember. I 4 assume it was one of the staff people at 5 IARC that had asked me. 6 Q Dr. Thomas, I understand that 7 you've never smoked; is that correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q Has your wife? 10 A No. 11 Q Did your parents? 12 A Not to my knowledge. 13 MR. MURPHY: I understand all 14 these questions are fair game. 15 BY MR. PURCELL: 16 Q Do you tell people not to smoke? 17 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 18 form. I think it's vague. 19 THE WITNESS: I don't go out and 2 0 tell people not to smoke, but I do not 2 1 recommend that people smoke. 22 BY MR. PURCELL: (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 194 1 Q When did you first do that? 2 A Well, the most obvious time is 3 with my own children, I recommended that 4 they not smoke. 5 Q What year would that have first 6 been? 7 A I don't know which year. Probably 8 in the early or mid to late '70s. 9 Q Why did you tell them that? 10 A Because I think from a public 11 health standpoint that smoking is a -- is a 12 risky behavior, there's risks associated 13 with it, and I'd prefer not to see my 14 children smoke. 15 Q Have you read any of your former 16 testimony in tobacco - related litigation? 17 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the 18 form. At what point in time I guess is one 19 of my - - 2 0 BY MR. PURCELL: 21 Q Ever. 22 MR. MURPHY: I mean I just don't (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 want it to get confused and I think the 195 2 question is confusing, but I think he's 3 reviewed transcripts for mistakes, et 4 cetera, after they've come through. Are you 5 including that in your question? 6 MR. PURCELL: That's my exact 7 question. 8 MR. MURPHY: Okay. 9 MR. PURCELL: I think Dr. Thomas 10 can handle it. 11 MR. MURPHY: Well, it could be 12 misunderstood with have you gone back and 13 read the Engle testimony that we referred 14 to, which was years ago, have you gone ba ck 15 and read that recently. as opposed to he did 16 a deposition and within 30 days it come s to 17 you and you look at it. 18 BY MR. PURCELL: 19 Q You may respond. 2 0 A I have read, as indicated, I have 21 read previous depositions and testimony that 22 I've given to correct that. I have actually (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 196 1 looked at previous depositions I've given 2 from time to time just to see what types of 3 questions were asked. I haven't lately. I 4 haven't read Engle. It's a very long set of 5 documents I understand and I testified over 6 several days, so it would be fairly 7 voluminous. I don't specifically remember 8 going back and reading my testimony in 9 previous cases. I may have at some point 10 looked to see how I responded to some 11 question that was asked or something, but 12 other than that, I don't remember going back 13 and actually reading them. 14 Q As you sit here today, do you 15 recall a specific glaring change that you 16 felt was necessary in testimony of yours you 17 have reviewed? 18 A No. 19 Q As a scientist, do you believe 20 there are any benefits to cigarette smoking? 21 A Well, again, the best that we have 22 are the epidemiologic studies and the (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 197 1 epidemiologic studies do show that cigarette 2 smoking actually does have some beneficial 3 effects in reducing some types of cancer 4 such as breast cancer in women. We were 5 talking about silica earlier, that people 6 that work around silica and mining and so 7 forth, it will actually reduce the level of 8 silicosis as opposed to a nonsmoker. So I 9 guess you could say those are beneficial 10 effects that one could pick out of the 11 epidemiologic studies, but I would still not 12 recommend that people smoke. 13 Q Do you believe that those benefits 14 in total, whatever they may be, outweigh the 15 risks you believe are indicated by the 16 studies? 17 MR. MURPHY: Objection to the form 18 and I think that that's somewhat using legal 19 language and Dr. Thomas isn't here to 20 testify to a legal standard, but subject to 2 1 that, I mean I think he can answer. 22 THE WITNESS: I haven't done a (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 198 1 benefit analysis to look at that, the issue 2 of whether they -- the benefits outweigh the 3 risks. Like I say, my own personal opinion 4 is that I don't think that people should 5 smoke and I certainly don't recommend that 6 they start smoking and -- but that's not 7 based on my scientific analysis of benefits B and risks because I haven't done that. 9 BY MR. PURCELL: 10 Q Have you ever been asked to do 11 that and refused? 12 A No, I've never been asked to do 13 that . 14 Q In the epidemiologic literature 15 what is the difference between a Type I and 16 a Type II error in interpreting data? 17 A A Type I error is usually the type 18 of error that's based on no hypothesis and 19 that we try to control for. These are 20 conflicting variables and conflicting risks. 21 We've talked about some of these before. 22 For example, in looking at silicosis in f202; 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 controlling for smoking and asbestos in 199 2 controlling for smoking. Type II errors 3 tends to mean more variable errors, 4 statistically variable errors. They're more 5 difficult to control for and they often 6 involve individual variability. We can 7 sometimes try to correct for Type II errors, 8 but those are much more difficult to control 9 for. 10 Q In cancer epidemiology, when 11 evaluating data, you're familiar with the 12 concept of competence interval? 13 A Uh-huh. 14 Q Is that yes? 15 A Yes . 16 Q You're familiar with the concept 17 of strength of association? 18 A Yes . 19 Q You're familiar with the concept 2 0 of margin of error? 21 A Yes . 22 Q You're familiar with the concept (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 of goodness of fit? 200 2 A Yes . 3 Q Would you agree those are 4 relatively fundamental notions in 5 epidemiology? 6 A Those are relatively fundamental 7 notions. 8 Q Of those four, which are least 9 affected by increased degrees of freedom of 10 da t a ? 11 A Of which four? 12 Q Confidence interval, margin of 13 error, strength of association, goodness of 14 fit . 15 A I have to write them down. I 16 didn't realize I was going to have a quiz 17 today. So there's goodness of fit -- what 18 were the others? Confidence interval? 19 Q Margin of error, strength of 2 0 association. 21 A Now, what was the question? 22 MR. PURCELL: Would you read it (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 back? 201 2 (The reporter read the record as 3 requested.) 4 THE WITNESS: Degrees of freedom, 5 okay, and least affected, right? 6 BY MR. PURCELL: 7 Q Yes. 8 A Well, just to answer this in a 9 general way, and it depends on how these are 10 being modeled as to how to answer this, but 11 if I were in an epidemiology class and this 12 was a general question, the degrees of 13 freedom would least affect the confidence 14 interval and the margin of error. The 15 goodness of fit would be the most associated 16 and the strength of association, again, 17 depends on how that was determined. That's 18 why we figure out degrees of freedom, is to 19 get a better understanding of goodness of 20 fit of a curve for modelling. 21 Q Do you know who Robert H. Fletcher 22 is, F-L-E-T-C-H-E-R. (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 2 02 1 A 1 recognize the name, but I don't 2 remember offhand. 3 Q Do you consider yourself to be 4 expert on the pathogenesis of lung cancer? 5 A Yes . 6 Q Does that include genetic aspects? 7 A Yes. It doesin my case. 8 Q Have you read any of the 9 literature regarding the p53 gene? 10 A Yes, I have. 11 Q Is it your understanding that 12 exposure to asbestos and exposure to 13 carcinogens from tobacco smoke have the same 14 or different effect on the p53 gene? 15 A That -- that's -- the way you 16 phrase it is very difficult to answer. 1 7 Asbestos is, for the most part, when we're 18 talking about one, you know, there's 19 different forms of asbestos, but when we're 20 talking about one that may induce fibrosis 2 1 and then subsequently cancer, the p53 gene 22 is mutation that's usually not seen or it's (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 most seen at very late stage. 203 2 For the constituents in tobacco 3 smoke a few years ago, three or four years 4 ago, the thought was, was that some of those 5 constituents, especially something like 6 benzpyrene may be affecting the p53 gene. 7 More recent indications are that they are 8 not and it's inconsistent, so we're not 9 seeing a consistent change in people that 10 smoke. I hope that answers your question, 11 but that's the best I can do to answer it. 12 Q What type of gene is the p53 gene? 13 A It's a tumor suppressor gene. 14 Q Is it a transcriptional activator? 15 A It can act as a transcriptional 16 activator. 17 Q How does exposure to asbestos 18 and/or cigarettes affect it? 19 A Well, like I say, it's a 2 0 late-stage gene, as it's name implies, it's 21 a suppressor and we don't know what effect 22 cigarette smoke has on it and the studies (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 204 1 are inconsistent and, as far as asbestos is 2 concerned -- like I say, I haven't reviewed 3 asbestos or even looked at the genetics 4 behind that for some time, but as I 5 remember, as I mentioned just a few minutes 6 ago, it's a late-stage gene involved in 7 transcription such as having a similar 8 withdrawal to the LOH, loss of 9 heterozygosity. 10 Q What is the most common genetic 11 event in human lung cancers? 12 A I don't think we know the answer 13 to that. At one point, like I say, there 14 was a thought that maybe p53 was, but that's 15 been dismissed. We've looked at several 16 genes and there does not seem to be a common 17 set of genetic changes that we can relate to 18 cigarette smoke. 19 MR. PURCELL: I think we're 20 approaching 6:00 o'clock and at this point I 2 1 don't have any further questions of the 22 witness, however, I want to emphasize that (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684 2382 205 1 if the witness is provided further documents 2 or any other information that in any way 3 does further work or review or preparation 4 of the case, we need to be notified of it 5 forthwith so that the appropriate motions 6 and/or relief from the court can be obtained 7 or addressed. 8 MR. MURPHY: I want to make sure 9 we're clear, he is going to prepare for 10 trial, as I'm sure plaintiffs' witnesses 11 will, and - - 12 MR. PURCELL: Well, we don't need 13 to spend a lot of time talking about it, 14 but - - 15 MR. MURPHY: But ordinary 16 preparation for trial. I just want to make 17 sure I was clear. 18 MR. PURCELL: The code is very 19 clear under BCP 2034 what this is about and 20 I think the judges that interpret that and 2 1 apply that are going to adhere to it and if 22 there is further work done, you need to let f 2 021 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 207 1 MR. PURCELL: I'm not . I'm j ust 2 trying to see if there's a cover fax. 3 MR. MURPHY: There's a cover fax, 4 but I don't have it. It's a letter from 5 Marty Springman. I have another letter that 6 we sent to your office with Dr. Thomas's CV 7 that acknowledges the timing and I started 8 to pack up because I didn't think this would 9 be an issue. I hope it's not an issue. 10 MR. PURCELL: You know what, we 11 won't make it an issue. If we told 12 you 12:30, I'd just like a chance to confirm 13 that, if it's the case. 14 MR. MURPHY: Frankly, your office 15 asked for more time is all I'm saying. 16 Here's another letter. 17 MR. PURCELL: If that's the case, 18 we will pay the doctor from 12:30 to 6:00. 19 MR. MURPHY: Are you impugning my 20 credibility when I tell you that this is 2 1 from your office? 22 MR. PURCELL: No, I just don't (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703} 684-2382 1 know. I need to go look. 208 2 MR. MURPHY: No, you just don't 3 trust me. I don't know which it is, but 4 that 1s fine. 5 MR. PURCELL: I didn't say that. 6 MR. MURPHY: Okay. 7 MR. PURCELL: Just lack of 8 foundation. 9 MR. MURPHY: It's f rom your 10 office 11 MR . PURCELL: I want to say that I 12 only have a c heck for $400 today for one 13 hour . Your r ate is $400 an hour/ is that 14 correct, doct or ? 15 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 16 MR . PURCELL: I'll hand you that 17 one check for one hour now. 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 MR. PURCELL: I don't have the 20 other check w ith me, but on the record I'm 2 1 committing th at we will pay you the balance 22 of the time. you need not be concerned, and (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 1 X appreciate your time and patience here 2 09 2 today. 3 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 4 MR. PURCELL: Thank you. We can 5 go off the record now. 6 (Discussion off the record) 7 MR. JOHNSON: On behalf of Philip 8 Morris I just want to make it clear that we 9 are joining in on the objections made by 10 defense counsel and also that Dr. Thomas is 11 listed as an expert to my client as well as 12 defense counsel that was defending this 13 deposition. 14 (Whereupon, at 5:54 p.m., the 15 deposition of RICHARD THOMAS was 16 adj ourned.) 17 ***** 18 19 20 21 22 (202) 638-2400 BETA REPORTING 1-800-522-2382 (703) 684-2382 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA I, SHARI R. BROUSSARD, the officer before whom the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition was duly sworn; that the foregoing transcript is a true and accurate record of the testimony given by said witness. I further certify that I am not related to any of the parties to this action by blood or marriage and I am in no way interested in the outcome of this matter. ]oax OtxOOCZA-O My Commission Expires: July 14, 2005 \ c o -i--oo--z x m 1 * S4 FROM. ID > "AGE 8/4 1 Lucy . Mason, SEN 196810 Mordecai D. Boone, SBN196811 2 Annie Y. S. Chuang, SBN 196307 SHOOK, HARDY & BACON L.L.P. 3 333 Bush Street, Suite 600 San Francisco, CA $4104-2828 4 Telephone; (415) 544-1900 Facsimile: (415)391-0281 5 CALENDARfD-HOWARD RICE 6 Attorneys for Defendant PHILIP MORRIS INCORPORATED 7 and on behalfofAttorney* for Defendant RJ. REYNOLDS TOBACCO COMPANY 8 9 SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA 10 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 11 ALAN HARVEY and MADELINE HARVEY 12 13 v. Plaintiffs, 14 ABB LUMMUS GLOBAL, INC., et al,, 15 Defendants. 16 CASE NO. 312112 ATION OF ANNIE Y.S, CHUANG DEPOSnotf EXHIBIT /fj Ultimo $ 17 18 Pursuantto 2034oftheC&iionuaCode ofCivil Procedure, Philip Morris Incorporated 19 ("Philip Moms"), on behalf of itself and RJ. Reynolds Tobacco Company ("Reynolds"), designates 20 the following individual* as expert witnesses and reserves the right to call them to trial in the above- 21 entitled ease. 22 1. David Barcay,M.D.; Board certified internist practicingemergency and critical 23 care medicine with training and specialty interest in pulmonology, Cedars Sinai Medical Center, 8700 24 Beverly Boulevard, Los Angeles, California 90048. 25 2. Edwin Bradley, Pb.D,: Quantitative Research Associates, Birmingham, Alabama. 3. Martin J. Cline, M.D.: ProfessorofOncology, University ofCalifonu* at Los Angeles, School of Medicine. l MMJ-l DISCLOSURE OF EXPERT WITNESSES AND DECLARATION OF ANNIE Y. s. CHUANG A , * ivwa-i - l popularslang usage; historical polling and survey data; network television news and programs; movies, 2 film strips and other sources of entertainment; public service announcements broadcast on television 3 and radio; publications and activities of regional and national anti-smoking organizations; union 4 publications; and other sources ofinformation, including sources in five areas where Alan D. Harvey 5 resided. 6 Dr. Schaller is expected to testify, based upon his examination of multiple sources of 7 public information, that for over a century there has existed widespread, common knowledge that 8 cigarette smoking could be hazardous to health and lead to serious injury and premature death, and that 9 it could be difficult to quit He is expected to testify that the health and addiction risks ofsmoking have 10 been common knowledge in the United States. Dr, Schaller is also expected to testify about the 11 dissemination ofinformation about, and awareness of, the risk oflung cancer among smokers exposed 12 to asbestos. Dr. Schaller may also offer opinions and testimony in response to related issues raised by 13 plaintiffs. ', , 14 Dr. Schaller has agreed to testify at trial and will be sufficiently familiar with the IS pending action to submit to an oral deposition concerning his testimony, including any opinion and 16 basis thereofthat he may render at trial. 17 Dr. Schatler's hourly and daily fee for providing consultation and deposition testimony 18 is $200 per hour. 19 23. Richard D. Thomas, FhJ).i Dr. Thomas is currently the Director of the 20 International Centerfor the Environment and Health inMcLean, Virginia. Previously, Dr. Thomas was 21 the Director ofHuman Toxicology and RiskAssessment at theNational AcademyofScieoces/National 22 Research Council. Dr. Thomas' areas of expertise include pathology, toxicology and risk assessment 23 techniques. 24 Dr. Thomas is expected to provide expert opinion testimony In the following areas, 25 including as they apply to Mr. Harvey; (1) causation of cancer and toe mechanisms by which cancer 26 develops; (2) the molecular biology of disease and the role of environmental and occupational 27 exposures and lifestyle factors in the developmentofdisease, including lung cancer, (3) the general risk 28 factors asfoHateti with the development of relevant occupationally and/or environmentally related 18 jm3A DfSOXJSURB OF EXPERT WITNESSES AND DECLARATION OF ANNIE Y.S.CHUANO C SD IKm I ao /run t 1is !/!! 1 diseases, including lung cancer; (4) the multifactorial etiology of lung cancer; (5) the role of non 2 tobacco related risk factors, including occupational and environmental risk factors, in the development 3 of lung cancer, including PlaintiffAlan Harvey's cancer; (6) the historical development ofmedical and 4 scientific knowledge regarding the health risks and diseases associated with occupational and S environmental exposures, including asbestos; (7) the relevant published studies or literature that discuss 61 pertinent diseases and/or risk factors; (8) the decline in smokers' risks of smoking related disease 7 following smoking cessation; and (9) the state ofmedical and scientific knowledge from the 1930s to 8 present with respect to identification of cigarette smoking as a cause of lung cancer in humans. Dr. 9 Thomas may also testify regarding Mr. Harvey's de minimis use of Camel brand cigarettes 10 manufactured by RJ. Reynolds Tobacco Company and the relationship ofhis use of Camel to his risk 11 ofdeveloping lung cancer attributable to cigarette smoking. 12 Dr, Thomas has agreed to testilyat trial and will be sufficiently familiar with the pending 13 action to submit to an oral deposition concerning his testimony, including any opinion and basis thereof 14 that he may render at trial 1$ Dr. Thomas' hourly fee for consultations and providing deposition testimony is S400 16 per hour. 17 24. Doug Tucker, M.D.: Dr. Tucker is board certified in Psychiatry, with added 18 certifications in Addiction and Forensic Psychiatry by the American Board of Psychiatry and 19 Neurology. Dr. Tucker is also certified by examination in alcoholism and other drug dependencies by 20 the American Society ofAddiction Medicine. Dr. Tucker is Assistant Clinical ProfessorofPsychiatry 21 at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine. Dr. Tucker obtained his medical 22 degree from the University ofMichigan School ofMedicine, and completedhis postgraduate residency 23 and fellowship training in psychiatry and consultation-liaisonpsychiatry at the University ofCalifornia, 24 Los Angeles Neuropsychiatric Institute. Additionally, hecompleted afellowship in forensic psychiatry 25 at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center. 26 Dr. Tucker has an active private practice ofaddiction psychiatry in the San Francisco 27 area, and docs frequent work as independent medical examiner. Dr. Tucker has extensive experience 28 in the field of substance dependence treatment, and currently serves on the Addiction Psychiatry ______________ 19_________________________________ UM2.I DISCLOSURE OF EXPERT WITNESSES AND DECLARATION OF ANNIE Y. S. CHUANG tgoifrezaw APR-23-02 IB:11 FROM: IO = PAGE 2./B 1 ALAN R. BRAYTON, ESQ., S.B. #73685 GILBERT L. PURCELL, ESQ. S.B. #113603 2 BRAYTON*>PURCELL Attorneys at Law 3 222 Rush Landing Road P.O. Box 2109 4 Novato, California 94948 (415)898-1555 5 Attorneys for Plaintiffs 6 HOWARD RICE /CAUUMfUH) BY; O. C APR 01 2002 mtes to be imm Qa 7 8 SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA 9 COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO a^ 0321 tgtuSgi<laK g|** = tpsoa S=Si $ 10 11 ALAN HARVEY and MADELINE HARVEY, 12 Plaintiffs, 13 vs. 14 ABB LUMMUS GLOBAL, INC., et al., 15 Defendants. 16 ) No. 312112 NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION AND REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS AND THINGS AT DEPOSITION (C.C.P. 2Q25(c),(d)] ) Trial Date: June 17,2002 17 TO ALL DEFENDANTS HEREIN AND THEIR ATTORNEYS OF RECORD: 18 PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that on the following dates and times, at the offices of 19 TOOKER & ANTZ, 818 Mission Street, 5th Floor, San Francisco, California, the attorneys for 20 plaintiffs in the above-titled action will take the depositions of the Mowing individuals upon 21 oral examination, before a duly qualified deposition officer; said depositions to continue from 22 day to day until completed. 23 NOTICE IS FURTHER GIVEN that said expert witnesses shall bring to and produce at 24 their deposition, and make available for inspection and/or photocopying, the originals ofthe 25 following: . 26 1. AH documents, literature or data that were referred to or reviewed in the course of the 27 investigation or in forming any opinion with respect to this case; 28 til t CtlEinSQWTlUUUPH *Pt NotK&wpd 1 AFH-23-02 1G = 11 FROM: ID : PAGE 2, All documents which were relied upon in forming any opinion with respect to this case; 3. A copy ofthe current resume or curriculum vitae of said expert including the identify 4 ofany grantors or any grants received by or awarded to the expert; 5 4. A list of all publications of said expert; 61 5. All notes, memoranda, correspondence, email or faxes sent to or received by or from 71 anyone, phone message notes, reports, draft reports, and the like, which relate to any work done 8 on this matter, including communications with defense counsel who retained said expert and all 9 materials received from defendants' attorneys (including Berry & Bcny); 10 6, All billing records and/or invoices for work done on this matter; 111 7. All time records reflecting time spent on this matter; 121 8. All photographs, tape recordings, motion pictures, calculations, computer printouts, 131 data stored in a computer, data stored on a computer disc, and any other recording of any kind of 14 8 any communication or representation that relates to any work done by said expert with regard to 15 this matter; 16 9. A listing, ifavailable, of all other matters in which said expert has rendered an expert 17 opinion, either in court or in a deposition or in a declaration; 18 10. Ail other documents which constitute any part of said expert's file for this matter not 19 previously produced in response to any ofthe above categories. 20 11. Any specific scientific publication each expert relies upon to form his opinion 21 pertaining to this case, or any unpublished data upon which he or she intends to rely on to form 22 his or her opinions in this case. 231 12. All notes, memoranda, correspondence, reports, emails or faxes sent between the 241 expert and his or her assistants pertaining to this case. 251 13. All notes, memoranda, correspondence, reports, emails or foxes sent between the 26 expert, his or her assistants and any employee ofdefendant or defense counsel. 27 14. All documents relating to work, testing, reports, notes, summaries, studies or research 28 done by or at the request of the expert pertaining to this case. K CUENTS34077RJ([*PH E*pcn Muuxwpd BBISaiUOM APR-23-02 16=12 FROM: ID = PAGE 4/a 1 15. All lecture notes, outlines and/or course materials that the expert has used in any 2 teaching capacity concerning tobacco, nicotine, addiction, cigarettes, cigarette smoking and 3 asbestos. 4 16. A listing ofprior deposition, trial, congressional, governmental and other testimony 5 (including affidavits) of the expert. 6 17. An inventory of all medical records including pathology and radiology pertaining to 7 Alan Harvey that the expert relied upon in order to form his or her opinion in the case. 8 18. All forms, written procedures, diagnostic materials and questionnaires used at the 91 expert's institution, department, clinic or private office for obtaining and analyzing information 10 0 for diagnosing (1) chronic disease including lung cancer or other respiratory disease and (2) 111 substance dependence, including nicotine dependence, addiction and substance-use disorders. 12 19. All articles, books, or book chapters written by or contributed to by the expert that are 13 in press or not otherwise publically available. * 14 20. All presentations and public statements, including those made for the media and 15 legislative/regulatory purposes, that in any way address Philip Morris, Inc., RJ. Reynolds 16 Tobacco Co. or smoking cessation programs. 17 DEpOhPJI BATE TIME 18 DAVID BARCAY,M.D. April 12,2002 9:00 am 19 EDWIN BRADLEY, Ph.D 20 MARTIN J. CLINE, M.D. . April 12,2002 April 15,2002 1:00 pm 9:00am 21 LAWRENCE COHEN, M.D. April 15,2002 1:00pm 22 MARK I. GREENE, Ph-D. 23 LUCY HENKE April 16,2002 April 16,2002 9:00 am 1:00pm 24 JAMES P.KORNBERG.M.D. 25 JAMES LANGENFELD, Ph.D, 26 MARK S. LIPIAN, M.D. April 17,2002 April 17,2002 April 18,2002 9:00am 1:00pm 9:00 am 27 /// 28 III K.tCUEKraiWITXJItePK E*<*n NuUM-wpd APR-23-02 IBs 12 FROM = 1 DEPONENT KENNETH M. LUDMERER, M.D, 3 JAMES KIRBY MARTIN, Ph.D. 4 harmon McAllister, PhD. 5 MONA F. MELHEM, M.D. 6 GITA MOAREFT, M.D. 7 LAWRENCE NATHAN, D.O. 8 1 EUGENE ONG.M.D, 9 JOHN L. PETERMAN, Ph.D. 10 PETER P. ROWELL, Ph,D. 11 ANTOINE SAMMAN.M.D. 12 MICHAEL SCHALLER, PhD. 13 RICHARD D. THOMAS, Ph.D. 14 DOUG TUCKER, M.D. 15 W,KIPVISCUSI,Ph.D. 16 RUDOLPH VON BERG, PhD. n WILLIAM E. WECKER, Ph.D. 181 RICHARD A. CARCHMAN, Pb.D. 19 JERRY F. WHJDBY PhD. 20 THOMAS RICHARD ADAMS, CPA 21 J. DONALD deBETHIZY, PhD. 22 JEFFREY S. GENTRY, Ph-D. 23 DAVID N.IAUCO 241 ARNOLD T. MOSBERG, PhD. 251 DAVID E. TOWNSEND, Ph.D. 26 | /// 271 lit 281 /// ' DAIE April 18.2002 April 19.2002 April 19,2002 April 22,2002 April 22,2002 April 23,2002 April 23.2002 April 24,2002 April 24,2002 April 25,2002 Aipril 25,2002 April 26,2002 April 26,2002 April 29,2002 April 29,2002 April 30,2002 April 30,2002 May 1,2002 May 1,2002 May 2,2002 May 2,2002 May 3,2002 May 3,2002 May 6,2002 I K CUErirsmomURAPH Expert NMKewpd 4 PAGE TIME 1:00 pm 9:00am l:0Qpm 9:00 am 1:00pm 9:00am 1:00pm 9:00 am 1:00 pm 9:00am 1:00pm 9:00 am l;00pm 9:00am 1:00pm 9:00 am 1:00 pm 9:00am 1:00pm 9:00 am 1:00pm 9;00am 1:00pm 9:00 am 8Bt6BW(ViA = l: FROM = ID : PAGE B/8 l Plaintiffs tender witness fees to said deponents at commencement ofthe respective 2 depositions. 3 Dated: BRAYTQN*PURCELL /">v 4 5 Rvr Gilbert L. Purcell, Esq. 6 Attorneys for Plaintiffs 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 K-XllEMTSOnwuPH Eiftit NcMe wpd 5 een 16 = 2 FROM = ID: PAGE 7/Q l PROOF OF SERVICE BY MAIL 2 I am employed in the County of Marin, State of California. 1 am over the age of 18 years and am not a party to the within action. My business address is 222 Rush Unding Road. 3 Novato, California; 94945. 4 On . I served the within: 5 NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION AND REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS AND THINGS AT DEPOSITION 6 on the interested parties in this action by transmitting a true copy thereof in the following 7 manner. 8 I caused each of the above documents) to be placed in a sealed envelope, postage thereon prepaid, addressed and served as follows: 9 SEE ATTACHED LIST 10 11 BY MAIL SERVICE; I am readily familiar with the business practice at my place of 12 business for collection and processing of correspondence for delivery by mail. Correspondence so collected and processed is 13 deposited with the United States Postal Service on the same day in the ordinary course ofbusiness. On the above date the said 14 envelope was collected for the United States Postal Service following ordinary business practices. 15 Executed . at Novato, California. 16 I declare under penalty ofperjury under the laws ofthe State ofCalifornia that the 17 foregoing is true and correct. 18 19 20 211 221 231 241 251 26 j 27 ine Harvev__y. Asbestos Defendants San Francisco Superior Court Case Nb.312112 28 _________________________ PROOF OF SERVICE BY MAIL 1 3 ftPR~,23''02 1G= 13 FROM* 'f t ID* PAGE eye FSINTE9: S3S 8 E 55RT BY: Attsrney CLIENTS: Alin D. Harvey BRaYTON PURCSU. SERVICE LIST pjujg. . OSCAR E. ERICKSON, INCORPORATES Adams. wye. sinunu t alter One Jac-tson Place 11 Battery street, 5th Finer San franciaeo. CA 94111 (41S;9J3-99SS IlS;s! -2042 OARLOCK, INC, flarooian w firm 301 EetC Colorado Blvd. suite 41t Pasadena. CA 91101 'I5oS.<)M4 {(3()4<9-4SSI BEAST A BERRY Berry a Barry P.O- Box 1(470 2930 Lakcenore Avenue Oakland. CA 94io (SI4JS1S-JJ30 (5101(35-5117 J,T, THORPE i SOM, INCBishop, Barry, et al, Watergate Tovsr tit 2060 Powell Street. Suite iu-. Emeryville, CA 94Oa (510)S9*0889 *SI0`5 -4(9* GIALQCK, INCGlaipy t GUtpy ;h,C. ' Out walftut Creek Center 100 Pringle Avenue, suite 750 walnut Creek. CA 445* (iiSitol-HtO (935)347-15 U R.J. REYNOLDS TOBACCO COMPANY Howard, Rice, Nencrovski et *1 3 UWrcadero Center, 1260 Seventh Floor san Francisco. Ca peili-toss <4lS)434-1(00 *415*312-5910 ALIA BUI LCIMG MATERIALS COMPANY Jaekeon 4 Wallace 55 Frartciies street Sixth Floor san Francisco, CA 94113 (414)942-4300 (415)902-8700 PLANT IHSVUTIOH 00MPAHY .FORME) Jeekson a Hall ace 55 Francisco Street Sixth Floor San Francisco, CA 94131 (41S19I1-430C :415H82-670( COMBUStww SNQIMEERlNG. INC. Knox Bicksen LLP JAoi Metetcr street suite ssO Oakland, a ufit-ion (510)2*5-2500 *510*1(5-2505 emu for CLAIMS RESOLUTION CERTAINTIES CORPORATION UNION CARBIDE CORPORATION McKenna a Cuneo (SP) Hcxetma s cuneo i$l) Merenna A Cuneo !SF) one Market, Steuerc street rw Ate Market, Sieuarr Street Tvr - One Market. Stewart Street Twi Lite Oberj, Erq., 37th Floor Lisa 0ber$, Esq-, 27th Fleer Lisa Oderg, esq.. 27th Floor San Francisce, CA 94IDS sal) Fraactfco, CA 941 os San Franelice. CA 94105 (41SJ267-4640 (41513(7-4191 (415)3(7-4060 (415)2(7-4193 (415)2(7.4000 (415)287-4191 PHILIP MORRIS. INCORPORATED Shook. Hardy A Bacon 3)1 Bush street, St*. (00 Sen Francisco, CA 94164 U15)5<*-1300 (415)391-02(1 ACAJOU, INC. The St. Peter Lav Group 20 California St. 7 th Floor San FranOiKO, CA 94111 1415)955-0100 *416*955-0711 RAPID-AMIRICAN CORPORATION Thclen Mid A Priest, llF 101 Second St-, ste 1909 San Francisco, CA 94105-3(61 (415)171-1300 *41S*(44-(S1J <<SWD OF REPORT*? No. INVOICE April 8, 2002 7282 TO: Paul S. Ryerson, Esq. JONES, DAY, REAVIS & POGUE 51 Louisiana Avenue, N.W. Washington, . D.C, 20001 Consulting Services of Dr. R. Thomas (Unless otherwise stated, work was research and development.) Account under which work was completed: Re: Alan Harvey v. R. J. Reynolds et al. Examine the medical records for Alan Harvey. Review epidemiologic data on lifestyle, occupational and environmental exposures, and associated diseases. Review adenocarcinoma of the lung and pleural scarring. Examine medical and scientific literature for adenocarcinoma associated risk factors. Meeting to discuss medical and scientific issues. and CONSULTING TIME: Total Hours Dr. Richard Thomas Mr. Chad McMullin Research Assistant 21.5 36.5 43.0 101.0 Invoice February 1 through February 28, 2002 Total Consulting Time (hours): 101.0 Cost at $400.00/hour $ 40,400.00 $ 40,400.00 OTHER EXPENSES: Telephone Fed. Express Computer Search Copying Literature Retrieval Supplies Parking 44.27 13.32 32.51 54.30 57.38 46.89 12.00 $ 260.67 $ 260.67 TOTAL INVOICE $ 40,660.67 Make check payable to: Thomas & Thomas Technologies, Inc. 1307 Dolley Madison Blvd., Suite 4A McLean, Virginia 22101-3913 No. 7281 INVOICE March 20, 2002 TO: Paul S. Ryerson, Esq. JONES, DAY, REAVIS & POGUE 51 Louisiana Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20001 Consulting Services of Dr. R. Thomas (Unless otherwise stated, work was research and development.) Account under which work was completed: Re: Alan Harvey v. R. J. Reynolds et al. Examine the medical records for Alan Harvey. Review epidemiologic data on lifestyle, occupational and environmental exposures, and associated diseases. Review adenocarcinoma of the lung and pleural scarring. Examine medical and scientific literature for adenocarcinoma associated risk factors. Meeting to discuss medical and scientific issues. and CONSULTING TIME: Total Hours Dr. Richard Thomas Mr. Chad McMullin Research Assistant 32.0 42.5 47.5 122.0 Invoice January 1 through January 31, 2002 Total Consulting Time (hours): 122.0 Cost at $400.00/hour $ 48,800.00 $ 48,800.00 OTHER EXPENSES: Telephone Fed. Express Computer Search Copying Literature Retrieval Supplies Parking 41.52 13.32 31.87 52.40 64.70 34.59 12.00 $ 250.40 $ 250.40 TOTAL INVOICE $ 49,050.40 Make check payable to: Thomas & Thomas Technologies, Inc. 1307 Dolley Madison Blvd., Suite 4A McLean, Virginia 22101-3913 RICHARD D. THOMAS, Ph. D. May 2, 2002 TRIAL TESTIMONY (1998 - 2002) Kenvon v. R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company. No. 00-5401 (13th Judicial Circuit, Hillsborough County, Fla.) (November 30,2001). Mehlman v. Philip Morris. Inc., et al.. No. L-l 141-99 (Sup. Ct., Middlesex County, N.J.) (May 1,2001). Gilboy v. American Tobacco Company, et al.. No. 314,002 (19th Judicial District, Baton Rouge, La.) (July 6,1999). Engle et al. v. R.J. Reynolds. Tobacco Company, et al.. No. 94-08273 CA (20) (11th Judicial Circuit, Dade County, Fla.) (April 5-6 and 12-14,1999). Newcomb v. R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, et al.. No. 889-13-8 (T.D.) (Cir. Ct., Shelby County, Tenn.) (March 30,1999). DEPOSITION TESTIMONY (1998-2002) Engle, et. al. v. R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, et. al.. Case No. 94-08273 CA (20) (11th Judicial Circuit, Dade County, Florida) (April 29,1998). Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance Fund, et. al, v. Philip Morris. Inc., et. al.. No. 1: 97CV1422 (N.D. Ohio) (December 17, 1998). Whitelev v. Ravbestos-Manhattan. et al.. No. 303184 (Super. Ct, San Francisco, Cal.) (November 19,1999). 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Vol. 230, (April 30, 1971). "Animal Experiment" Congressional Record. Vol. 115, Part 5, (March 15, 1971). Dansi A., Zanini C.,"Sul Significato Pratico Della Presenza Di Idrocaiburi Policiclici Nel Caffe; Torrefatto" (Practical Meaning of the Polycyclic Hydrocarbons in Roasted Coffee), Tumori. Vol. 45, (1959). Dom, H.F., Cutler, S.J., Morbidity From Cancer In the United States. U.S. Public Health Service Monograph No. 56, (1958). Van Duuren, B.L., et al., "Cigarette Smoke Carcinogenesis: Importance of Tumor Promoters," Journal of the National Cancer Institute. Vol. 47, No. 1, (July, 1971). LeBeau, M.M., "Chromosomal Fragile Sites and Cancer-Specific Rearrangements," Blood. Vol. 67, No. 4, (April, 1986). Madri, J. A. and D. Carter, "Scar Cancers of the Lung, Origin and Significance," Human Pathology. Vol. 15 (7), pp. 625-631 (1984). Bakris, G. L., et al., "Pulmonary Scar Carcinoma, A Clinicopathologic Analysis," Cancer. Vol. 52, pp. 493-497 (1983). Shimosato, Y., et al., "Morphogenesis of Peripheral Type Adenocarcinoma of the Lung," in: "Morphogenesis of Lung Cancer". Y. Shimosato, M. R. Melamed, and P. Nettesheim, eds., Chapter 3, pp. 66-89, CRC Press, 1982. Auerbach, O., et al., "Scar Cancer ofthe Lung, Increase Over a 21 Year Period," Cancer. Vol. 43, pp. 636-642 (1979). Lippman, M., Yeates, D.B., Albert, R.E.: Deposition, retention, and clearance of inhaled particles. Brit J Ind Med 1980:337-362. Du YX, Zhou B, Wu JM, "Lifestyle Factors and Human Lung Cancer: An Overview ofrecent advances (Review)", International Journal of Oncology,(1998). Nyberg F, Agrenius V, Svartengren K, Svensson, Pershagen G, "Dietary Factors and Risk of Lung Cancer in Never-Smokers", International Journal of Cancer. (1998) WA: 1279396v1 13 Anderson KE, Woo C, Olson JE, Sellers TA, Zheng W, Kushi LH, Folsom AR, "Association ofFamily History of Cervical, Ovarian, and Uterine Cancer with Histological Categories of Lung Cancer: The Iowa Women's Health Study", Cancer Epidemiology. Biomarkers & Prevention, (June 1997) "Reducing Tobacco Use: A Report of the Surgeon General," US Dept, of Health and Human Services, CDC, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Office on Smoking and Health (2000), WA: 1279396vl 14 2 * Dr. Richard Thomas Curriculum Vitae PERSON AT,: Birth date: February 14, 1947 Citizenship: U.S.A. Married: Cameron Mary Jacquelyn Thomas Birthplace: Payson, Utah Children: Austin, Sterling, Joel, Carmen, EDUCATION: 1979 - 1980 Pathology and Forensic Toxicology, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Walter Reed Medical Center and George Washington University. 1971 - 1974 Ph.D, in Chemistry, Colorado State University 1969 - 1971 1965 -1967 B.S. in Chemistry, Utah State University. CERTIFICATIONS: Diplomate of the American Board of Toxicology (DABT), 2002-2007 (Current Terms) Diplomate of the American Board of Forensic Medicine (BCFM) 1996-2002 Board Certified Forensic Examiner (BCFF) 1996-2003 Certified Environmental Inspector (CEI), 1993-2002 Certified Professional Chemist (CPC), 1995-2001 ACADEMIC APPOINTMENTS: Adjunct Professor, Uniformed Service University of the Health Sciences, F. Edward Herbert School of Medicine, Bethesda, MD Adjunct Professor, Department of Toxicology, School of Medicine, University of Maryland, Baltimore, MD 1307 Dolley Madison Blvd., Suite 4A, McLean, VA 22101 Tel (703) 734-1454 Fax (703) 734-3241 Dr. Richard D. Thomas. Manaeimi Director. DABT. BCFM. BCFE. CEI. CPC SAMPLE COURSES TAUGHT: Use of Biologic Markers in Monitoring Public Health, International Public Health, United Nations University, 1990, 1992 Toxicology and Risk Assessment Methods, John Hopkins University, 1988-89 Principles of Quantitative Pathology and Toxicology, Uniformed Service University of the Health Sciences, 1989-95 Animal Testing Practices, Toxicology Course, George Washington University, 1986-87 Use of Toxicologic and Risk Assessment Techniques for Public Health Decisions, University of Maryland, 1991-95 New Methods in Risk Assessment for Regulation, Howard University, Washington, D.C., 1994-96 Biomedical Ethics Issues in U.S. Research Laboratories, National Institute of Health, Bethesda, MD, 1993-94 Use of Risk Assessment Methods for Public Health Development, The World Bank, 1994-97. Assessment of Environmental Contamination and Emergency Response Planning, World Health Organization, 1995. New Scientific Development in the use of Biologic Markers, American College of Toxicology 1996 SUMMARY OF PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES: Dr. Thomas is CEO and Managing Director of the International Center for Environmental Technology (INTERCET) since February 1997. He also serves as Director of the International Center for Environmental Health, now part of the INTERCET Group of companies. Previously he was Director of Human Toxicology and Risk Assessment at the National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council (NAS/NRC). His research interests concern the mechanisms of toxic action of chemicals and the related ultrastructural changes in tissues. He has directed studies at NAS for more than ten years on the testing of complex mixtures, the assessment of contaminants in drinking water, the development of biological markers, the use of pharmacokinetics in risk assessment, acceptable exposure levels of environmental contaminants in spacecraft and submarines, the recommendation of acceptable levels of chemical exposure for military personnel, and the development of new methods for risk assessment. He was responsible for development of the basic mechanistic studies at the NAS/NRC that resulted in the five volume series on the use of biologic markers in toxicology. He has directed toxicologic studies at Borriston Laboratories, the MITRE Corporation, SRI International, and CIBA-GEIGY Corporation. He has chaired or served on several committees dealing with the review and validation of toxicity studies, the development of new test protocols, and the emergency response to chemical accidents. Besides his extensive involvement in national scientific programs, he has had wide international experience in programs on toxicity testing, emergency response, standard setting, and regulatory affairs including work with the United Nations, U.S. Agency for International Development, the World Health Organization, and the World Bank. He is a Diplomate of the American Board of Toxicology (D.A.B.T.) and a member of over 25 scientific organizations. He is the author or co-author of approximately 100 publications and research studies. He has had continuing involvement in Society of 2 April 24, 2002 Toxicology activities and has been a member of two program committees. He is Past-President of the American College of Toxicology. 3 April 24, 2002 APPENDIX I PROFESSIONAL APPOINTMENTS February 1997 - Current International Center for Environmental Technology (INTERCET, Ltd.) CEO and Managing Director Responsible for the development of an international center to apply integrated approaches to the assessment of human and ecological risk. Monitors day-to-day planning, resource allocation, and program development. He is also the senior scientist for all technical programs. The center provides leadership and technical expertise in dealing with health-related concerns involving the environmental impacts of chemicals and radiation, hazardous waste, public awareness, perception, and environmental training. The center has a comprehensive data repository, conducts computer modeling, and analysis of health and environmental issues. Areas of expertise include Toxicology/Pathology, Computer Modeling/Data Base Development, Risk Assessment, and Occupational and Environmental Health. INTERCET advises industry and government through risk assessments, research and analysis, litigation support, environmental site assessments and environmental management systems. May 1994 - Current International Center for the Environment and Health (1CEH) Director (Part of the INTERCET Group of Companies) In addition to conducting risk assessments, ICEH develops action plans using the risk management process for policy development. ICEH defines attainable objectives, designs specialized studies and programs, monitors and evaluates on-going activities, suggests practical interventions, and serves as a credible, neutral, third party organization evaluating the environmental factors that may influence human health. The Center brings together scientists, physicians, engineers, and educators to provide public service from the local, regional, and national to the international level. September 1982 - May 1994 94) Environmental Studies and Toxicology, Associate Director (1991 - National Research Council National Academy of Sciences Director, Human Toxicology and Risk Assessment (1986 - 1994) Principal Staff Officer Director, Human Toxicology and Risk Assessment (Formerly Toxicology, Epidemiology, and Risk Assessment). Responsible for approximately 25 committees and subcommittees examining issues in toxicology dealing with the testing of complex mixtures, the assessment of contaminants in drinking water and in air, the development of biological markers, the use of pharmacokinetics in risk assessment, the development of acceptable exposure levels of environmental contaminants in closed spaces, the recommendation of acceptable levels of chemical exposure for military personnel, workers, and the public, and the development of new methods for risk assessment. Responsible for the review and validation of toxicity studies, the development of new test protocols, and the emergency response to chemical accidents. Responsible for international programs in toxicity testing, emergency response, standard setting, and regulatory affairs, including work with the United Nations and the World Health Organization. Director, Committee on Toxicology. The Committee on Toxicology (COT) is one of the oldest standing committees of the NRC. It was established in 1947 to enhance the professions of toxicology and industrial hygiene in national and international affairs and provide advice and assistance to the Armed Forces in solving toxicologic problems. Over the years the Committee's activities have grown and it now advises other federal agencies such as the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), the Coast Guard, the Office of Research and Development and the Office of Drinking Water of 4 April 24, 2002 the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the Department of Energy (DOE), and the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) on toxicology and risk assessment issues. Dr. Thomas interacts with sponsors, monitors budgets, plans, organizes, and coordinates all committee programs. He is responsible for responding to frequent questions on toxicology, risk assessment, and potential health effects from military operations and from other National and International programs. He is also Director of the COT Emergency Response Team, which provides rapid response to military questions and crises. The COT is organized in approximately 15 subcommittees, all examining different issues. Program Director, Committee on Risk Assessment of Hazardous Air Pollutants. Concerns over air and its contamination by toxic pollution have led to a body of legislation about clean air. The most recent of these pieces of legislation is the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990. As part of that legislation, the Congress directed the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to engage the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) in a review of the methods that EPA uses to ensure that Americans have appropriately clean air. This report provides advice to enable EPA to carry out the mandates of the Clean Air Act and to satisfy Congress's concerns about the implementation of the act and its 1990 amendments. Specifically, the committee was charged with reviewing the risk-assessment methods used by EPA "to determine the carcinogenic risk associated with exposure to hazardous air pollutants" and to suggest improvements in such methods. The elements to be studied by the committee included "the techniques used for estimating and describing the carcinogenic potency to humans of hazardous air pollutants, as well as methods for estimating exposure to these materials." The legislation instructed NAS to "evaluate and report on the methodology for assessing the risk of adverse health effects" for hazardous air pollutants. Scientific Director, Committee on Pesticides in the Diets of Infants and Children. The Committee examined science and policy issues faced by regulatory agencies, particularly EPA, in the regulation of exposure to pesticide residues in the diets of infants and children. Toxicological issues of general and unique relevance to infants and children were examined, and current methods for setting safety factors and determining acceptable levels of exposure to pesticides through consumption of food and water were reviewed. The Committee prepared a final report that identified toxicological issues of greatest concern; clarified what is known about exposure to pesticide residues in the diets of infants and children; made recommendations on ways to improve the current risk assessment process; and identified research priorities. Program Director, Committee on Measuring Lead Exposure in Critical Populations. The Committee identified and evaluated methods for measuring environmental exposures to lead in critical populations, e.g., children under two years of age, and pregnant women. The study especially emphasized techniques for measuring very low lead body burdens, e.g., blood lead levels below 25-30 I Jg/dL, and particularly those techniques that are suitable for screening and diagnostic purposes. Techniques such as x-ray fluorescence, isotope dilution, and enzyme-specific assays, among others, were considered and evaluated. The Committee produced a report that recommended options for research strategies to refine techniques for measuring lead in biological matrices. Program Director, Committee on Biologic Markers. The Board on Environmental Studies and Toxicology conducted a three-year study to consider the use of biologic markers in environmental health research. The objectives were to clarify the concepts and definitions surrounding biologic markers, to propose guidelines for the validation of methods, to recommend promising areas for future research on markers, to review the potential of existing specimen banks for archiving and retrospective analysis of markers, and to evaluate potential markers as measures of exposure, indicators of preclinical health effects, or individual susceptibility in three systems or body functions. These systems were selected from a list that included the respiratory, nervous, reproductive, immune, and endocrine systems. 5 April 24, 2002 Selection was based on the availability of sufficient data on the biochemical or cellular effects of toxicants on these systems, and the overall potential for the elucidation of biological markers. Project Director, Committee on Complex Mixtures. Most toxicity studies are performed to evaluate the potential human health hazards of single chemicals. Humans however are exposed to many mixtures of chemicals, many of which contain toxic components. The testing methods used to evaluate the toxicity of single compounds may be inappropriate in the case of complex mixtures. The validity of such methods needs to be evaluated for the case of chemical mixtures. Toward this end, a Complex Mixtures Committee was established to provide information to the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS) regarding in vivo toxicity testing methods for complex mixtures. The Committee considered and proposed research and development that was needed to improve the existing methods and devise new methods for testing and evaluation of chemical mixtures where such methods did not exist. The complex mixtures examined were those that occur in the human environment. A classification of such mixtures was attempted, and all routes of exposure were considered. Sampling problems such as heterogeneity and instability were addressed, as were problems of multiple and interfering endpoints. The design of experimental testing protocols was examined, and guidance was developed for conducting such tests, including selections of doses, duration of observations, and establishment of dose-response curves. Problems associated with synergistic interactions, low-dose extrapolation, and inter-species comparisons were also considered. Project Director, Trauma Research Committee. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, acting on a Congressional directive, asked the National Research Council's Commission on Life Sciences and the Institute of Medicine to establish a joint committee to assess the current state of trauma research. The Committee of biological and medical scientists investigated the mechanisms of injury, prevention, treatment, and rehabilitation, and recommended research into the reduction of injury and death from trauma. Project Director, Safe Drinking Water Committee. The Committee evaluated the toxicological literature on 14 compounds that are of regulatory interest to EPA because of their occurrence in water supplies. Estimates of safe exposure levels for these compounds were devised by methodologies and procedures developed in this and previous studies. Of equal importance to the Committee's charge was an examination of the scientific bases for standard setting in two particular areas: extrapolation of inhalation data on animals to determine human health effects from drinking water, and safety factors for estimating safe exposure levels for various toxic endpoints. Senior Staff Officer, Committee on Protection against Mycotoxins. This Committee examined the toxicity of "yellow rain." The Committee considered methods for specific, sensitive, and rapid detection of tricothecene toxins under battlefield conditions; means for their destruction, disposal, and environmental decontamination; possible prophylaxes to prevent their toxic action in humans; and treatments for tricothecene-induced adverse effects. Sept. 1975 - Current Consultant Consultant in the Washington Metropolitan Area specializing in toxicology, health assessment, and environmental studies. Projects include the health assessment of economically important chemicals such as pesticides, petroleum solvents, plastics and food, and cigarette and tobacco additives; evaluation of the potential risks from the occupational exposure to industrial chemicals; design and evaluation of toxicologic protocols for laboratory bioassays; evaluation, review and validation of toxicologic protocols for laboratory bioassays and of completed toxicologic studies; preparation of reports presenting industrial test data for submission to governmental agencies; and development of research plans to fulfill testing requirements for new chemicals and new applications of existing chemical products. 6 April 24, 2002 April 1981 - Sept. 1982 Borriston Laboratories, Inc. Director, Division of Biochemical Toxicology Managed a professional scientific staff of approximately 12 researchers. Responsible for design, implementation and evaluation of toxicologic studies with special emphasis on pharmacokinetics/metabolism studies and systemic toxicity studies. Project included a variety of acute toxicity studies, liver enzyme induction studies, and cholinesterase inhibition studies. In some projects, the pharmacokinetics of test materials was determined. Other projects involved the elucidation of metabolic pathways through the isolation and identification of metabolites. Provided scientific input into cardiovascular and pulmonary monitoring studies, skin painting studies and subchronic and chronic toxicity studies. Responsible for the smooth conduct of laboratory work and the preparation and presentation of experimental results. Review and validation of toxicologic studies on important industrial chemicals in preparation for submission to governmental agencies or that had previously been submitted to fulfill registration requirements. Preparation of research reports presenting the results of toxicologic studies including hazard and risk analysis. Sept. 1978 - April 1981 METREK Division, The MITRE Corporation Environmental Chemistry and Biology Senior Toxicologist and Department Staff Responsible for providing technical guidance for toxicological projects including a review of the testing techniques used in animals to assess damage to the pulmonary, cardiovascular, hepatic and renal systems resulting from exposure to toxic substances; development of a management plan for in vitro testing laboratory; review of in vitro mutagenicity and carcinogenicity testing techniques; health hazard evaluations of benzyl alcohol, benzaldehyde and benzyl chloride; assessment of the health effects paraquat; and a review of the techniques used to assess the potential health effects of the byproducts of advanced coal combustion techniques. April 1976 - Sept. 1978 SRI International Center of Occupational and Environmental Safety and Health Manager and Toxicologist Managed a diverse professional staff in the conduct of various research programs dealing with the health effects produced by toxic substances. Directed the preparation of the Alkanes and Vinyl Compounds Criteria Documents for the recommendation of safe occupational and environmental exposure levels. July 1974 - April 1976 CIBA-GEIGY Corporation Biochemistry Department Senior Metabolism Scientist Responsible for studies dealing with biochemistry, metabolism, toxicology, and environmental impact. Work included the development of both laboratory and field protocols for studies in both animals and plants. The key responsibility of this position was the elucidation and identification of significant metabolites using sophisticated analytical techniques. Some of the techniques used were gas chromatography (GC), gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS), high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) infrared (IR) and FT-IR spectroscopy, electrophoresis, nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy and radiolabel techniques. Responsible for the smooth conduct of complex field and laboratory studies and coordination of effort to meet project deadlines. Analysis of laboratory results, preparation of reports and presentation of technical information to government agencies. June 1969 - Sept. 1971 U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) 7 April 24, 2002 Poison Plants Division and Sugar Industries Division Research Biochemist and Toxicologist Responsible for development of bioanalytical methods and animal testing of naturally occurring toxic substances found in plants using various animal species. Development of computer bioanalytical models. 8 April 24, 2002 APPENDIX II PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES Continuing Education International Harmonization: Update on Scientific and Regulatory Issues, Part I: Foods, Drugs, Cosmetics, and Devices, Society of Toxicology, March, 1994 International Harmonization: Update on Scientific and Regulatory Issues, Part II: Toxic Substances and Environmental Issues, Society of Toxicology, March, 1994 New Approaches to Risk Assessment, Society of Toxicology, February 1993. Statistical Methods in Toxicology, American College of Toxicology, October 1993. Development and Safety Evaluation of Recombinant Products for Pharmaceutical and Agricultural Use, Society of Toxicology, February 1992. Molecular Control of Cell Proliferation, Society of Toxicology, February 1992. Advanced Molecular Toxicology: Application of Molecular Biology in Toxicology, Society of Toxicology, February 1991. Risk Communication: Problems, Perceptions and Practice, Society of Toxicology, February 1991. Health Effect of HCL in Ambient Air, Institute for Environmental Health, October 1990. Concepts in Cell Biology, Society of Toxicology, February 1990. Free Radical Toxicology, Society of Toxicology, February 1990. A Rational Approach for Protecting Fetuses, International Life Sciences Institute, March 1989, Commentary of Carcinogens, International Life Sciences Institute, April 1989. Concepts in Molecular Biology, Society of Toxicology, February 1989. Statistics for Toxicologists, Society of Toxicology, February 1989. Risk of Immunotoxicology, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, December 1988. Risk Assessment: First 15 Years; Next 15 Years, International Life Sciences Institute, November 1988. Senior Management Training, University of Virginia, October 1988. Respiratory Tract Toxicology, Society of Toxicology, March 1988. Immunotoxicology, Society of Toxicology, March 1988. Hepatotoxicity, Society of Toxicology, February 1987. 9 April 24, 2002 Clinical Chemistry of Laboratory Animals, Society of Toxicology, February 1987, Use of Innovative Methodology in Toxicology, Society of Toxicology, March 1986. Quantitative Methodology for Cancer Risk Assessment, Society of Toxicology, March 1986. Selection of Tests for Assessment of Hepatotoxicity in Animals, Society of Toxicology, March 1984. Neurotoxicology Training Course, Society of Toxicology, March 1984. Biomechanics of Trauma, Institute for Medical Education, San Diego, Calif., October 1983. Management Techniques, George Washington University, October 1983. Toxicology in the Laboratory, American Chemical Society, April 1983. Inhalation Toxicology, Society of Toxicology, March 1981. Writing and Editing in Technical Fields, George Washington University, March - April 1980. Post-Doctoral studies in pathology, George Washington University and the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, 1979-1980. Advanced Forensic Toxicology, George Washington University, Fall Semester, 1979. Management Theory and Practice, George Mason University, Spring Semester, 1979. Toxicology for Chemist (Organizer), American Chemical Society, April 1977. Industrial Toxicology, Wayne State University, November 1976. In vitro Mutagenesis Testing, University of North Carolina, February 1976. Laboratory Management, North Carolina State University, June 1975. Recent Presentations Risk Assessment Approaches to Lung Disease, R.D. Thomas, Fifth International Conference on Environmental and Occupational Lung Disease, American College of Chest Physicians, Orlando, Florida, March 1995. Risk Assessment and Risk Management in International Environmental Development, R.D. Thomas, Training of Trainers Workshop on Political Economy of the Environment for Anglophone Africa, Economic Development Institute of the World Bank. June 1995. Markers Relevant to Effects on the Immune System, R.D. Thomas, International Searle Foundation Workshop, International Institute for Scientific Cooperation, Schloss Reisensburg, Ulm, Germany,September 1994. 10 April 24, 2002 Uncertainty and Variability in Risk Assessment, Annual Summer Toxicology Forum, The Given Institute of Pathobiology, Aspen, Colorado, July 1994. Use of Risk Assessment and Risk Management Techniques for Public Health Policy, The World Bank, Washington, D. C., September 1994; February 1995. "National Academy of Sciences ReportscPesticides in the Diets of Infants and Children and Comparative Toxicity of Naturally Occurring Carcinogens", The Toxicology Forum, 1993 Annual Summer Meeting, Aspen, CO, July 1993, Session Chair, "Conference on the Risk Assessment Paradigm After Ten Years: Policy and Practice Then, Now, and in the Future," Wright-Patterson AFB, OH, April 1993. "Toxicology and Risk Assessment of Complex Mixtures, National Institute of Health, Bethesda, MD, October 1992. "Communicating Risk to the Public," USUHS, Bethesda, MD, May 1992. "Short-Term Occupational Exposure Guidelines," American Industrial Hygiene Conference and Exposition, Boston, MA, May 1992. "Future Directions in Risk Assessment Research," University of Maryland, Baltimore, MD, April 1992. Participant, Panel Discussion, "Symposium on Respiratory Exposure: Effects and Protection from Hazardous Chemicals," American Chemical Society, Annual Meeting, Washington, DC, August 1992. "The Development of Acceptable Exposure Levels for Spacecraft," NASA Space Station Science and Applications Advisory Subcommittee, Sunnyvale, CA, February 1992. Session Chair, "Methods for Detecting Early Pulmonary Damage," Symposium on Animal Test Alternatives, Aberdeen, MD, February 1992. Session Chair, "Aggregate Risk," Society for Risk Analysis, Annual Meeting, Baltimore, MD, December 1991. "Risk Assessment - Public Health Consequences," USUHS, Bethesda, MD, July 1991. "National Academy of Sciences Report on Pesticide Exposure in the Diets of Infants and Children," ILSI, Food, Nutrition, and Safety Committee, Washington, DC, June 1991. "Current Developments in the Risk Sciences," Risk Science Workshop, Pittsburgh, PA, May 1991. Session Chair, "Principles of Risk Assessment," Conference on Chemical Risk Assessment in the DoD: Science, Policy, and Practice, Dayton, OH, May 1991. Conference Chair, Conference on Chemical Risk Assessment in the DoD: Science, Policy, and Practice, Dayton, OH, May 1991. "Risk Assessment Practices for Infants and Children," NACA Spring Conference, 1991, Arlington, VA, April 1991. % "Risk Assessment New Techniques and Applications," USUHS, Bethesda, MD, April 1991. 11 April 24, 2002 "Advanced Molecular Toxicology: Application of Molecular Biology in Toxicology," Society of Toxicology 30th Annual Meeting, Dallas, TX, February 1991. "Risk Communication: Problems, Perceptions and Practice," Society of Toxicology 30th Annual Meeting, Dallas, TX, February 1991. "National Academy of Sciences1 Infants and Children Study,1' Food Industry Pesticide Forum Meeting, GMA, Washington, DC, December 1990. Biomarkers in Toxicology, ACT Annual Meeting, October 1990. Gordon Research Conference, Risk Assessment of Toxic Chemicals, June 1988. Managing Conduct and Data Quality of Toxicology Studies, NIEHS, November 1985. Gordon Research Conference, Mechanisms of Toxicity, June 1985. 12 April 24, 2002 APPENDIX III PROFESSIONAL AFFILIATIONS American Association of the Advancement of Science American Board of Forensic Examiners American Chemical Society Member, Chemical Safety Committee, 1978-1984 Member, Executive Committee, Division of Chemical Health and Safety, 1978-1981 Chairman, Nominations and Elections Committee, 1978-1981 Chairman, Constitution and By-Laws Committee, 1978-1984 Chairman, Task Force on Food Safety Amendments 1983-1984 Technical Advisor, National Chemical Health and Safety Referral Service, 1979-1981 American College of Toxicology Council, 1988-1991 Chairman, Education Committee, 1990-1991 Member, Finance Committee, 1991-1992 Vice-President, 1991-1992 President-Elect, 1992-1993 President, 1993-1994 American Industrial Hygiene Association Member, Committee on Emergency Response Planning, 1987-1995 American Institute of Chemists Fellow, 1990 American Public Health Association American Society for Applied Spectroscopy American Society for Testing and Materials Member, Committee on Biological Effects and Environmental Fate (E-47), 1990-1995 American Water Works Association, Health Effects Committee Member, 1986-1988 Chairman, 1988-1991 Delta Phi Kappa Honorary Society Chairman, Committee on Occupational Development Environmental Health Institute Environmental Mutagen Society Genetic Toxicology Association National Capital Region Chapter, Society of Toxicology Member, Nominations Committee Member, Program Committee New York Academy of Sciences Society for Occupational and Environmental Health Society for Risk Analysis Member, Program Committee Society for Technical Communication Society of Toxicology United States and Canadian Academy of Pathology Who=sWho, Science and Engineering, 1984-date Who=s Who, U.S. Registry, 1986-date Who's Who Worldwide, 1992/1993 Platinum Edition of Worldwide Registry Member, Outstanding Achievement and Leadership in Science 13 April 24, 2002 APPENDIX IV BIBLIOGRAPHY Separation of Furocoumarins by High Pressure Liquid Chromatography. F.R. Stermitz and R.D. Thomas, Journal of Chromatography, 77:431-433, 1973. Analytical and Chemical Methods for the Isolation and Characterization of Toxic Plant Metabolites. R.D. Thomas (Doctoral Thesis), Colorado State University, Fort Collins, 1974. Preparation Scale Purification of Natural Products. Technical Bulletin #AN127, Water Associates, Inc., Milford, MA, 1974. Isolation of Nitro Compounds from Astragalus Species. M.C. Harlow, F.R. Stermitz and R.D. Thomas, Phytochemistry, 14:1421-1421, 1975. Furocoumarins of Cvmopterus Watsomii. F.R. Stermitz and R.D. Thomas, Phytochemistry, 14:1681, 1975. Nitro Compounds in Astragalus Species. M.C. Williams, F.R. Stermitz and R.D. Thomas, Phytochemistry, 14:2306-2308, 1975. Book Review: Biochemistry Problems and Calculations by A.H. Mehler and R.D. Thomas, AAAS Science Books and Films, November 1976. Occupational Exposure to Alkanes: Criteria for A Recommended Standard. R.D. Thomas, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, Washington, DC, March 1977. Book Review: Mechanisms and Theory in Organic Chemistry by T.H. Lowry, K.S. Richardson, and R.D, Thomas, AAAS Science Books and Films, March 1977. Occupational Exposure to Refined Petroleum Solvents: Criteria for a Recommended Standard. J.C. Warrick, E.M., Yuhas, R.D. Thomas, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, Washington, DC, July 1977. Occupational Exposure to Vinyl Compounds: Criteria for a Recommended Standard. G.N. McEwen, R.D. Thomas, R.S. Baloyi, R.L. Joiner, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, Washington, DC, April 1978. Occupational Exposure to Vinyl Acetate: Criteria for a Recommended Standard. K.R. Ockermann, R.D. Thomas, R.S. Baloyi, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, Washington, DC, September 1978. R.D. Thomas, MITRE Corporation Publication MTR-7799, Metrek Division, the MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, November 1978. 14 April 24, 2002 Management Plan for a Short-Term Bioassav Toxicology Testing Laboratory. J. Golden and R. D. Thomas, Environmental, Energy, Resources Division, Metrek Division, The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, December 1978. Review of Short-Term Bioassav Toxicologic Testing Techniques. R.D. Thomas and L.W. Thomas, Environmental, Energy, Resources Division, Metrek Division, The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, January 1979. Book Review: A Consumer's Dictionary of Food Additives by R. Winter and R.D. Thomas, AAAS Science Books and Films, February 1979. Narcotics Control in Mexico: Environmental Impacts Statement. D. Aurand, R. Thomas, S. Hoffman, M. McNamara, W. Tyndall, A. Platt, Bureau of International Narcotics Matters, U.S. Department of State, Washington, DC, April 1979. Narcotics Control in Mexico: Environmental Analysis of Effects in Mexico. J. Pratt, S. Hoffman, W, Tyndall, M. McNamara, R, Thomas, Bureau for International Narcotics Matters, U.S. Department of State, Washington, DC, April 1979. Health Effects Research Program, Fiscal Years 1974-1978 Summary Federal Interagency Energy/Environmental Research and Development Program. R.D. Thomas, A.D. Taylor, J.G. Gordon, Office of Research and Development, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, DC, May 1979. The Health and Safety Risks of Advanced Coal Combustion Technologies: Review of Toxicology and the Development of Health Effects Research Program. J. Hushon, R. Thomas, A. Singh, R. Brown, Interagency Committee on Advanced Fuels Technology, U.S. Department of Energy, Washington, DC, May 1979. Environmental Sources of Nitrate Exposure: Source Contribution Factors. R.D. Thomas, MITRE Corporation Publication WP-7900182, Metrek Division, The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, June 1979. Issue Papers on Selected Aspects of the United States-Mexico Narcotics Eradication Program. M. McNamara, W. Tyndally, R. Thomas, J. Bendall, D. Aurand, Bureau for International Narcotics Matters, U.S. Department of State, Washington, DC, July 1979. Directory of Institutions/Individuals Involved in Utilization/Development of Cardiovascular Bioassavs in Laboratory Animals. R. Thomas, P. Greenaway, Environmental Protection Research Division, U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command, Fort Detrick, MD, August 1980. Directory of Institutions/Individuais Involved in Utilization/Development of Pulmonary Bioassavs in Laboratory Animals. S. Drill, R. Thomas, T. Zimmerman, Environmental Protection Research Division, U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command, Fort Detrick, MD, August 1980. Directory of Institutions/Individuals Involved in Utilization/Development of Hepatic Bioassavs in Laboratory Animals. P. Greenaway, J. Konz, R. Thomas, Environmental Protection Research Division, U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command, Fort Detrick, MD, August 1980. 15 April 24, 2002 Evaluation of Short-Term Bioassavs to Predict Functional Impairment: Selection Short-Term Cardiovascular Toxicity Tests, R. D. Thomas, Environmental Protection Research Division, U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command, Fort Detrick, MD, October 1980, Evaluation of Short-Term Bioassavs to Predict Functional Impairment: Selection Short-Term Pulmonary Toxicity Tests. R.D, Thomas, Environmental Protection Division, U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command, Fort Detrick, MD, October 1980. Evaluation of Short-Term Bioassavs to Predict Functional Impairment: Selection Short-Term Renal Toxicity Tests, B. Fuller, R. Thomas, J. Konz, and L. Thomas, Environmental Protection Division, U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command, Fort Detrick, MD, October 1980. Evaluation of Short-Term Bioassavs to Predict Functional Impairment: Selection Short-Term Hepatic Toxicity Tests. R. Thomas, R. Wands, A. Singh, and L. Thomas, Environmental Protection Division, U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command, Fort Detrick, MD, October 1980. Health Evaluation of Benzyl Alcohol. R.D. Thomas, MITRE Corporation, Publication WP-80W00950, Metrek Division, The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, December 1980. Health Evaluation of Benzaldehvde, S. Krop and R. Thomas, MITRE Corporation Publication WP-80W00952, Metrek Division, The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, December 1980. Health Evaluation of Benzyl Chloride. P.D. Greenaway and R.D. Thomas, MITRE Corporation Publication WP-80W00951, Metrek Division, The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, December 1980. Recommendations of Safety. Industrial Hygiene and Major Disaster Plan for The Industrial Fuel Gas Demonstration Plant (IFGDP) Project. D. Cox, R. Thomas, H. Williams, MITRE Corporation Publication WP-81W00105, Metrek Division, The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, January 1981. Human Response from Exposure to Toxic Substances. R.D. Thomas, Health and Safety in the Laboratory - Assessing the Risks Conference, American Chemical Society Division of Chemical Health and Safety, Chemical Society of Washington and George Mason Institute, Arlington, VA, April 29, 1982. Animals in Toxicologic Testing-A Review. R,D. Thomas, Clinical Chemistry, 6:3-8, 1981. Health Hazard Evaluation of Eoichlorohydrin. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Research Triangle Park, NC, September 1982. Protection of Civilian and Military Populations Against Mvcotoxins. R.D. Thomas, Senior Staff Officer, National Academy of Sciences/Nattonal Research Council, Washington, DC, September 1983. Protection of Civilians and Military Populations. Richard D. Thomas, Lifelines, 9(4):2-4, 1983. Drinking Water and Health: A New Study. Richard D. Thomas, Lifelines, 10(2): 1-2, 1984. 16 April 24, 2002 Evaluation of Canabis on Federal Lands in the Continental United States. U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, September 1984. Evaluating the Toxicity of Complex Mixtures. Richard D. Thomas, Lifelines, 10(3): 1-3, 1984. Injury in America: A Continuing Public Health Problem. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, May 1985. Canabis Evaluation on Non-Federal and Indian Lands in the Continental United States and Hawaii, U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, May 1985. Drinking Water and Health, Volume 6. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1986. Drinking Water and Health. Volume 7-Disinfectants and Disinfectant By-Products. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1987. Drinking Water and Health. Volume 8--Pharmacokinetics. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1987. Risk Assessment for Additives to Drinking Water, American Waterworks Association, Annual Meeting, June 1987. Drinking Water and Health, Volume 9-Selected Issues in Risk Assessment. Richard D. Thomas, Scientific Advisor, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1987. Complex Mixtures: Methods for In Vivo Toxicity Testing. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1988. Toxicity of Candidate Arthropod Repellents: Appraisal of the Armed Forces Topical Hazard Evaluation Program, Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1987. Emergency and Continuous Exposure Guidance Levels for Selected Airborne Contaminants. Vol. 7. Ammonia. Hydrogen Chloride, Lithium Bromide, and Toluene. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1987. Letter Report to the U.S. Army on Dibromochloropropane. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, August 1987. Letter Report to the U.S. Army on Sarin (Agent GB), Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, March 1988. Emergency and Continuous Exposure Guidance Levels for Selected Airborne Contaminants. Vol. 8, Lithium Chromate and Trichloroethylene. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1988. Monitoring the Air in Submarines. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1988. 17 April 24, 2002 Health Effects in Divers of Breathing Submarine Air under Hyperbaric Conditions. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1988. Acceptable Levels of Dioxin Contamination in an Office Building following a Transformer Fire. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1988. Epidemiology and Toxicology of the Skin Penetration of Environmental Chemicals in Water. American College of Toxicology Annual Meeting, Baltimore, MD, October 31, 1988. Data Needs for the Risk Assessment of Chemical Mixtures. American College of Toxicology Annual Meeting, Baltimore, MD, October 31, 1988. Risk Assessment Methods for Children. American College of Toxicology Annual Meeting, Baltimore, MD, November 1, 1988. Use of Laboratory Animal Models in Investigating Emphysema and Cigarette Smoking in Humans. Richard D. Thomas and Torgny J. Vigerstad, Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology, 10:264-271, 1989. Epidemiology and Toxicology of Volatile Organic Chemical Contaminants in Water Absorbed Through the Skin. Richard D. Thomas, Journal of the American College of Toxicology, 8(5):779-795, 1989. Biologic Markers in Reproductive Toxicology. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC, 1989. Biologic Markers in Pulmonary Toxicology, Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1989. Chromium Contamination in Army Face Masks. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1989. Precursors of Munition Chemicals: Permissible Exposure Limits (PELS). Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1990. Significance and Treatment of Volatile Organic Compounds in Water Supplies, Chapter 18, Lewis Publishers, 1990. Review of the U.S. Army Environmental Hygiene Agency Toxicology Program. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1991. Permissible Exposure Levels and Emergency Exposure Guidance Levels for Selected Airborne Contaminants, Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1991. Frontiers in Assessing Human Exposures to Environmental Toxicants, Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1991. 18 April 24, 2002 Environmental Neurotoxicologv. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1992. Biologic Markers in Immunotoxicology. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1992. Guidelines for Developing Spacecraft Maximum Allowable Concentrations fSMACs) for Space Station Contaminants. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1992. Carcinogenic Mixtures. Daniel Krewski and Richard D. Thomas, Risk Analysis, 12(1): 105-113, 1992. Four Decades of Scientific Service. Richard D. Thomas, Director, Committee on Toxicology, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1992, Toxicologic Risk Assessment Issues for Drinking Water Safety. Richard D. Thomas, Journal of American College of Toxicology, 11(3):311-319, 1992. Ascertaining Human Health Risks from Exposure to Water Contaminants. Chapter in "Drinking Water Contamination and Health," Marcel Dekker Inc. Publishers, 1993. Strategies for the Prevention of Environmental Neurotoxic Illness. Philip J. Landrigan, Doyle G. Graham, and Richard D. Thomas, Environmental Research (In Press). Guidelines for Developing Community Emergency Exposure Levels for Hazardous Substances. Richard D. Thomas, Director, Committee on Toxicology, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1993. Health Effects of Ingested Fluoride. Richard D. Thomas, Director, Committee on Toxicology, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1993. The Structure and Performance of the Health Effects Institute. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, Committee to Review the Health Effects Institute, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1993. Issues in Risk Assessment. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, Committee on Risk Assessment Methodology, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1993. Measuring Lead Exposure in Infants. Children, and Other Sensitive Populations. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, Committee on Measuring Lead Exposure in Critical Populations, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1993. Pesticides in the Diets of Infants and Children. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, Committee on Pesticides in the Diets of Infants and Children, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1993. Science and Judgment in Risk Assessment. Richard D. Thomas, Project Director, Committee on Risk Assessment of Hazardous Air Pollutants, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1994. 19 April 24, 2002 Review of the U.S. Naval Medical Research Institute's Toxicology Program. Kulber S. Bakski and Richard D. Thomas, Project Directors, Committee on Toxicology, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1994. Health Effects of Permethrin-Impregnated Army Battle-Dress Uniforms. Kulber S. Bakski and Richard D. Thomas, Program Directors, Committee on Toxicology, National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council, Washington, DC, 1994. Monitoring Biologic Markers of Cellular and Biochemical Response. R.D. Thomas, In Vitro and Other Alternatives in Inhalation Toxicology, 221-231, 1995. Ed. Harry Salem. Marcel Dekker, Inc., New York. Risk Assessment. An Introduction and Source Book. Richard D. Thomas and Gerald H. Fuller, 1995, World Bank, Washington, D. C. Age-Specific Carcinogenesis: Environmental Exposure and Susceptibility. Richard D. Thomas, Environ. Health Pers. 103, 45-48, 1995. Environmental Review. Ukraine Agriculture Commodities Credit Finance Program. Lane Krahl, John Russell, and Richard D. Thomas. In Press. Assessment of Human Health Effects. Richard D. Thomas, Dermatotoxicology, 5th Ed., 545-555, 1996. Eds. F. N. Marzulli and H. I. Maiback, Taylor and Francis, Washington, D. C. Biologic Markers in the Immune System from Exposure to Ionizing Radiation, Richard D. Thomas. In Press. Methods for Environmental Risk Assessment. Richard D. Thomas. Comprehensive Toxicology, Volume 2, 1996. Elsevier Scientific. In Press. Over two hundred laboratory research reports concerning toxicology, biochemistry, pharmacology, metabolism, analytical chemistry, exposure and risk assessment. 20 April 24, 2002