Document jyoeoQnKQQkLrpQp8MEL2MDwy

FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 WALTER OWENS, et al., ) 6 Plaintiffs, ) 7 8 vs. 9 ) ) CIVIL ACTION NO. ) CV-P-440-E 10 MONSANTO COMPANY, ) 11 Defendant. ) 12 13 DEPOSITION OF: JESSE ABERNATHY 14 15 In accordance with Rule 5 (d) of The 16 Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure, as Amended, 17 effective May 15,1988,1, TAMMY JENNINGS 18 GREGORY, am hereby delivering to MR. LARRY WRIGHT 19 the original transcript of the oral testimony 20 taken on the 27th day of October, 1999, along 21 with exhibits. 22 Please be advised that this is the same and 23 not retained by the court reporter, nor filed OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034932 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 2 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 with the Court. 2 The deposition of Jesse Abernathy was taken 3 before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, commencing at 4 1:20 P.M. on the 27th day of October, 1999, by 5 the Plaintiffs, at the law offices of Fite & 6 Miller, Anniston, Alabama pursuant to the 7 stipulations set forth herein. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034933 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 3 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 Appearing For The Plaintiffs: 4 MITHOFF & JACKS, LLP 5 By: Larry Wright, Esquire 6 and Laura Ruth, Esquire 7 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 1010 8 Austin, Texas 78701 9 10 Appearing For The Defendant: 11 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 12 By: Adam Peck, Esquire 13 TheClark Building 14 400 20th Street North 15 Birmingham, Alabama 35203-3200 16 17 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & MOORE 18 By: Michael E. Kelly, Esquire 19 300 North Greene Street, Suite 1400 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034934 20 Greensboro, North Carolina 27401 21 22 Court Reporter: 23 Tammy R. Jennings Gregory 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 4 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 INDEX 2 3 Witness: Jesse Abernathy 4 Stipulations...........................page 5 5 Examination by Mr. Wright............. page 7 6 Reporter's Certificate................ page 45 7 8 9 10 11 12 EXHIBITS 13 14 (No exhibits were offered for identification, 15 admitted, or attached as exhibits hereto.) 16 17 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034935 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 5 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STIPULATIONS 2 3 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and 4 between the parties through their respective 5 counsel that the deposition of Jesse Abernathy 6 may be taken before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, at 7 the law offices of Fite & Miller, Anniston, 8 Alabama on the 27th day of October, 1999. 9 10 11 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 12 the signature to and the reading of the 13 deposition by the witness is waived, the 14 deposition to have the same force and effect as 15 if full compliance had been had with all laws and OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034936 16 rules of court relating to the taking of 17 depositions. 18 19 20 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 21 it shall not be necessary for any objections to 22 be made by counsel to any questions, except as to 23 form or leading questions, and that counsel for 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 6 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 the parties may make objections and assign 2 grounds at the time of trial or at the time said 3 deposition is offered in evidence or prior 4 thereto. 5 6 7 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 8 the notice of filing of the deposition is waived. 9 10 11 12 13 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034937 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 7 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STATE OF ALABAMA, CITY OF ANNISTON, 2 OCTOBER 27, 1999, 3 1:20 PM., 4 5 JESSE ABERNATHY, 6 having been first duly sworn, was examined and 7 testified as follows: 8 9 COURT REPORTER: Usual stipulations 10 okay? 11 MR. WRIGHT: Yes. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034938 12 MR. PECK: Yes. 13 14 EXAMINATION BY MR. WRIGHT: 15 Q. Okay. Before we really get started with the 16 deposition, I asked you to look over the same 17 list that I've had the other aroclor workers 18 look over, and it's most recently been marked 19 as Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 11. 20 And you added some names, and I'm 21 going to read them out. I asked you to go 22 over the list and see if there are people 23 that you remember that worked in the aroclor 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 8 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 department that were not already on the list. 2 And you came up with some, and so 3 let me just read out their names. Charlie 4 Gunnells? 5 A. Gunnells. 6 Q. G-u-n-n-e-14-s? 7 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 8 Q. And he's deceased? 9 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034939 10 MR. PECK: You have to answer out 11 loud yes. 12 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Number forty-seven is Ray 13 Kimbrell. And is that spelled 14 K-i-m-b-r-e-1-1? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And you don't think he's deceased? 17 A. I don't think so. I hadn't heard if he is. 18 Q. Forty-eight is Tommy Patterson, and you don't 19 think he's deceased? 20 A. I don't believe so. As far as I know, he's 21 not. 22 Q. Forty-nine is Barker Curry, and he was a 23 foreman in the department? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 9 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Right. 2 Q. And he is not deceased either? 3 A. He's ninety-eight. He's not in the best of 4 health, but he's still hanging in. 5 Q. Number fifty is Henry Smith who is deceased? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Number fifty-one is Aaron Taylor, and you OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034940 8 don't believe he's deceased? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Are you pretty sure about him? 11 A. I'm real sure. 12 Q. Fifty-two is Pete Vaughn, V-a-u-g-h-n, and he 13 is deceased? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Fifty-three is Charles Norton, and you don't 16 believe he's deceased? 17 A. No, he's not. 18 Q. Number fifty-four is "Granny" Norton. Granny 19 was his nickname? 20 A. Right. 21 Q. You can't remember his realname? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. But it was not Charles Norton. He's 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 10 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 different from Charles Norton? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. And he is deceased? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034941 6 MR. PECK: Just for the record, you 7 might want to ask him his name. 8 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah, although I guess 9 she'll put it on there but -- 10 Q . Mr. Abernathy, my name is Larry Wright, and 11 I'm representing a group of people in a 12 lawsuit against Monsanto. You understand 13 that; right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q . Are you still working out at the plant? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q . Okay. All right. Well, we'll get into all 18 that in just a minute. Let me ask you about 19 a few other people and see if this rings any 20 bells. 21 I'll tell you what -- 22 MR. WRIGHT: Off the record. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 11 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Thank you for going through 2 that before we started the deposition. I 3 appreciate it. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034942 4 Have you ever given a deposition 5 before? 6 A. Well, describe deposition. What do you mean 7 by deposition? 8 Q. What we're doing here today with a lawyer 9 asking you questions and a court reporter 10 writing down theanswers.Have you ever done 11 that before? 12 A. I've talked to the attorneys, really not a 13 court reporter. 14 Q. Talked to Monsanto's attorneys or other 15 attorneys? 16 A. Other attorneys. Personal business. 17 Q. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, I'm not interested in 18 that. So as far as you recall, you've never 19 been in a room with a court reporter writing 20 down everythingthat you say andsomebody 21 asking you questions? 22 A. No, I haven't. 23 Q. Okay. Let me explain what a deposition is 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 12 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 and make sure you understand it. I think you OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034943 2 probably do, but if I put it on the record 3 then we all know that. 4 So you understood that she's 5 writing down everything -- every question 6 that I ask you and every answer you give? 7 A. (Witness nods head.) 8 Q. You understand that? 9 A. Yes, uh-huh (indicating yes). 10 Q. Would you be sure to answer out loud because 11 she's writing down the answers, and they 12 don't like to write down head nods and head 13 shakes and things like that? 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. Okay? 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. Do you need a piece of paper? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. Did you just think of another name? 20 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Is this good or bad me adding all these 23 names? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 13 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034944 1 MR. PECK: It's fine. They're not 2 going to be real happy with you when they all 3 get deposed, but we won't tell them that's 4 where their name came from. 5 Q. (By Mr. Wright) We'll probably run out of 6 gas before we depose them all. Paul Gray. 7 A. That's something we didn't cover. 8 Q. Paul Gray and Tommy Whaley. Is that 9 W-h-a-l-e-y? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Are either of them deceased? 12 A. Both of them are. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. That was names I just remembered I didn't 15 think was on there. 16 Q. Okay. So fifty-five will be Paul Gray, and 17 he's deceased. And then fifty-six will be 18 Tommy Whaley, and he's deceased also. 19 Q. I'm going to leave this here in front of you 20 in case anymore come to mind. 21 A. I think I'm going to quit thinking. 22 Q. As I was saying, if you answer verbally, she 23 can write it down, so try to remember to do 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 14 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034945 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 that, and sometimes we'll have to remind you. 2 Sometimes the way I remind you is 3 I'll just point to the court reporter, and -- 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. -- that will remind you to give out a verbal 6 answer. 7 You understand that this testimony 8 is being taken under oath; right? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And that the oath is the same oath you would 11 take if you were to testify in front of a 12 Judge and jury in a courtroom? 13 A. Right. 14 Q. You understand that? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And that the testimony carries the same force 17 and effect as if you were sitting in front of 18 a Judge and j ury? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Let me ask you just a couple of things. If I 21 ask you a question that you don't understand, 22 stop me, and I'll try to rephrase it in a way 23 that you do understand. Okay? OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034946 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 15 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. You've been pretty good about doing that so 3 far, so I assume that won't be a problem. 4 Only answer a question that you 5 understand though. Okay? 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. Don't try to answer it if you don't 8 understand it. We've got plenty of time, and 9 we'll work it around to both of us are on the 10 same page. Okay? 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. When did you start work for Monsanto? 13 A. May the 8th, 1961. 14 Q. And what was your first job? 15 A. Operation in chlorine plant. 16 Q. In the chlorine plant? 17 A. Chlorine department. 18 Q. How long did you stay in that job? 19 A. Somewhere around three months. I was hired 20 as temporary as vacation relief, and then 21 when vacation was over, there was an opening 22 in the aroclor department, so I transferred OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034947 23over there. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 16 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. How old were you when you started work? 2 A. Around twenty-two. 3 Q. So you would have started working the aroclor 4 department in 1961? 5 A. About August of'61. Somewhere around 6 August. 7 Q. And how long did you work in the aroclor 8 department? 9 A. I don't remember exactly. I could have 10 checked some records Iguess, but somewhere 11 around maybe nine years.Something like 12 that. 13 Q. So you left the aroclor department around 14 1970? 15 A. Something like that. Somewhere around there. 16 Q. Where did you go then? 17 A. Well, I transferred to shipping department 18 warehouse for the day jobs and off most 19 weekends. I never did like shift work too 20 much. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034948 21 Q. Was it the aroclor shipping department? 22 A. Yes. We shipped everything out of the -- at 23 that time, we only had one warehouse. We 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 17 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 shipped everything out of it. 2 Q. And how long did you stay in the shipping 3 department? 4 A. At that time, around five years. I don't 5 remember exact dates or exactly how long. 6 Q. So that would have been from about 1970 to 7 about 1975? 8 A. Something like that. 9 Q. And then where did you go? 10 A. I went to maintenance electrician. 11 Q. And were you working in the south shop or the 12 north shop? 13 A. Most of the time electricians had our own 14 shop, you know, centrally located. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Most of the time out of that shop. But most 17 of the time, I workedaround the north area, 18 niran department. I'd worked some in aroclor OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034949 19 department as maintenance electrician but 20 mostly in the niran area. 21 Q. Okay. Then where did you go? 22 A. I went back to shipping and receiving 23 warehouse. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 18 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Do you remember what year that was? 2 A. Not exactly. I don't remember exactly. 3 About'85. Something like that,'84. I 4 don't rememberexactly. 5 Q. And how long did you stay in that job? 6 A. I'm still there. 7 Q. Okay. All right. In the shipping 8 department, were you involved in taking stuff 9 to the landfill? 10 A. Yes, that was part of our job sometime. 11 Q. When did they put the TP incinerator over 12 there? 13 A. I don't remember -- 14 Q. Was it there when you -- 15 A. -- exact date. 16 Q. -- started in '70? OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034950 17 A. No, it came later. When I went the second 18 time, they had it, but the exact date, I 19 don't remember. 20 Q. About how long after you started on the 21 shipping department did they put the TP 22 incinerator up? 23 A. If I remember correctly, they installed that 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 19 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 while I was at instrument electrician during 2 the time I was out of the shipping 3 department. And when I came back to the 4 shipping department, they had it up, you 5 know. 6 But the exact year, I don't 7 remember exact dates. 8 Q. So you think they put it up after '75? 9 A. I don't remember exact dates, but seemed like 10 -- I just don't remember exactly when they 11 put that up. 12 Q. Are you sure that it was not there when you 13 started in shipping the first time? 14 A. I just don't believe it was. I don't believe OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034951 15 it was. 16 Q. When did they stop using the TP incinerator? 17 A. I don't remember exact dates. I don't 18 remember these dates. 19 Q. Was it in the'80s, in the 1980s? 20 A. I believe it was cause seemed like when I 21 went back to the warehouse, we didn't keep it 22 long after that. I just don't remember exact 23 dates. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 20 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. You do remember using it in your 2 second tour in the shipping department? 3 A. I believe that's the only time I used it, 4 that second year. 5 Q. Okay. Can you describe the landfills in 1970 6 when you first started in the shipping 7 department? 8 A. Can I describe it? 9 Q. Yes, sir. 10 A. Well, what they would do is go up there and 11 dig out a trench, pick a good spot and line 12 it and keep it lined best way they could to OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034952 13 contain everything we put in there. And the 14 drums we took up were, you know, sealed, 15 fastened up good. 16 And they did all they could to 17 contain the material. And we would take it 18 up and unload it. And the contractor would 19 keep it buried, you know, and cleaned up. 20 Q. Who was the contractor? 21 A. I don't remember those names. 22 Q. Did y'all have any role in burying it, or did 23 you just haul it up there and dump it up out? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 21 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. We just hauled it up and unload it, and it 2 was somebody else's then. 3 Q. When you first started going, did everything 4 go to one hole? 5 A. What they would do is fix one place -- they 6 had different places for different things, 7 and they'd use that one place until it got 8 kind of full, and they'd seal it off and make 9 another one. But they had different areas 10 for different things. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034953 11 Q. In 1970, they did? 12 A. Seemed to me like they did, always had 13 different places for different things, you 14 know. 15 Q. Okay. Which things went together? 16 A. Well, they kept -- best I remember, they kept 17 the sulfur separate, you know, from the other 18 things. 19 Q. Kept the sulfur separate? 20 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 21 Q. What else? 22 A. I don't remember exactly how they had that 23 laid out. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 22 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Do you remember when the land -- the south 2 landfill had to be moved, the old south 3 landfill had to be moved for the road? 4 A. Huh-uh (indicating no), that was before my 5 time. 6 Q. That was before 1970? 7 A. I don't remember anything about having to 8 move alandfill. I wasn't involved with all OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034954 9 that. 10 Q. How would y'all take stuff up to the 11 landfill? 12 A. Well, we had a truck called a stake truck, 13 ton and a half, and we hauled some drums up 14 on it, and then we had another truck called 15 dumpster we took the paper containers, paper, 16 you know, skips, paper skips on. That's 17 mostly the way we did it. 18 Q. What's a skip? I've heard that expression 19 used, and I'm not real clear on it. 20 A. You've probably seen these blue ones that 21 BFI's got sitting around. That's one type 22 skip. 23 We had different types. We have 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 some similar to that we used and some just 2 open top, you know, maybe half that size that 3 we use. 4 Q. By skip, are you talking about a dumpster? 5 A. Dumpster, yeah, dumpster. 6 Q. And those would be filled with what? OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034955 7 A. Mostly the paper and paper and things from 8 the offices and all went in the skips, you 9 know, in most of the skips that we used. 10 Q. Would rags go in there? 11 A. Usually the rags -- if they were not 12 contaminated they would go in there, but 13 anything that was contaminated we usually 14 kept drums for this, and then we got the drum 15 full, we'd just seal it up to contain these 16 items, you know. 17 Q. What jobs did you have in the aroclor 18 department? 19 A. I ran chlorinators, aroclor stills, HB40, 20 load, unloaded, made muriatic acid. 21 Q. There was a question came up in the last 22 deposition, you may be able to answer. Do 23 you remember using therminol in the HB40 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 24 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 process? 2 A. Using therminol in HB40 process? 3 Q. Yeah, I don't mean as an ingredient. I mean 4 in the heat exchanger or heat exchanging OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034956 5 process? 6 A. We had these -- I think we had these items to 7 heat and cool, you know, that we used to heat 8 systems, tanks and things. 9 Q. Okay. Did you ever drain that therminol or 10 add to it? 11 A. Usually I think the maintenance did a lot of 12 that. 13 Q. Do you remember them doing it? 14 A. I'll be around, and sometimes we would assist 15 and help with it, you know, and things. 16 Q. What kind of therminol did they put in there? 17 A. It was a liquid therminol, something that 18 would heat good and circulate good. 19 Q. Was it one that was made out of aroclors? 20 A. I don't remember just what all ingredients 21 was in this material. 22 Q. Where would you get the therminol to put in 23 there? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 25 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. There would be some that was made in the 2 plant, some we had in drums or some kind of OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034957 3 containers there. 4 Q. What kind of therminol did you make at the 5 plant? 6 A. What kind? 7 Q. Yes, sir. 8 A. We had different kind they called 1248, 1142, 9 1160, 1154. I don't remember just everything 10 that we -- 11 Q. Now, is that the therminol or the aroclor? I 12 was asking you what kind of therminol you 13 made at the plant. 14 A. I've heard it called therminol and about 15 everything. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. About what I heard it called. 18 Q. So for your purposes, therminol and aroclor 19 mean basically the same thing? 20 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 21 the question. 22 Q. (By Mr. Wright) You can answer. 23 MR. PECK: You can answer. I'm 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 26 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034958 1 just objecting to the form of the question. 2 I don't think that's what you said, but go 3 ahead. 4 You can have her read it back if 5 I've messed you up entirely or something. 6 When I object to the form of the 7 question, it's just because I think there's 8 something wrong with it, but you still have 9 to answer. Okay? 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. 11 MR. PECK: Try the question again, 12 Larry. 13 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Yeah. In your mind, 14 therminol and aroclors mean basically the 15 same thing and you can use the words 16 interchangeably? 17 A. Well, are you thinking aroclor is solid 18 or -- 19 Q. No. Well, I mean, I know that there are 20 solid aroclors, but that's not what I'm 21 thinking for this question. 22 The only reason I asked that is 23 because you said you've heard it called both 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 27 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034959 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 things, therminol and aroclor and other 2 things as well. And I assumed you were 3 talking about the stuff you would make in the 4 chlorinators there in the aroclor department. 5 Is that what you were talking about? 6 A. Well, you mentioned therminol. 7 Q. Right. I'm just -- right now I'm just trying 8 to figure out what y'all put in the heat 9 exchangers in the HB40 process. 10 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). It was a liquid 11 material, the liquid, and you called it 12 therminol or -- 13 Q. Right. Was it an aroclor is what I'm asking? 14 A. Was it an aroclor? 15 Q. Yes, sir. 16 A. I don't know what all they called it. You 17 have to talk to a lab specialist, somebody 18 that knows. I don't know what all they 19 called it. 20 MR. PECK: I don't think he knows, 21 Larry. 22 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Well, when you got it to put 23 it in there, either to top it off or switch 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034960 1-800-888-DEPO 28 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 it out, what did you put in there? 2 A. But really back in the older days, I didn't 3 hear much about therminol. We just mostly, 4 you know, aroclor. 5 Q. Okay. That's all I'm asking is was the stuff 6 that you put that heat exchanger in the HB40 7 area an aroclor or an aroclor mixture? 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 9 the question. No foundation. 10 THE WITNESS: Well, like I say, we 11 didn't hear much about therminol back in the 12 early days. Most all we ever heard was 13 aroclor, you know. 14 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Okay. So when it was time 15 to either add some fluid or replace the fluid 16 in the heat exchangers, you would get some of 17 the aroclor that you made at the plant to put 18 in there? 19 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 20 the question. No foundation. 21 THE WITNESS: Well, one thing back 22 in those days, we didn't have many of the 23 heat exchanges like we got now. We just OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034961 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 29 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 didn't have many, so we didn't need much 2 replacement or anything. 3 Usually when they installed it, it 4 just run. And I don't remember draining the 5 system or adding anything to it really. 6 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Well, earlier on, you told 7 me that you would help the maintenance guys 8 do that. 9 A. We didn't do much. We didn't do much. 10 Wasn't much to be done. Just wasn't much to 11 be done. 12 But anything the maintenance did in 13 our department, we helped if we could if they 14 needed us, but I don't know the details about 15 all this. I just don't know. 16 MR. WRIGHT: Let's go off the 17 record for a second. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 Q. (By Mr. Wright) We got these names from a 20 fellow a week or two ago of people that he 21 remembered had worked in the aroclor OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034962 22 department, and there are a few names that 23 are not on this list that's Plaintiffs' 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 30 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Exhibit Number 11. 2 I'm going to read the names off, 3 and if you could, I'd like for you to tell me 4 first of all if you remember that they did 5 work in the aroclor department, and then 6 second, of course, if they're deceased. 7 A. Okay. 8 Q. Okay. The first name is William Kennerly. 9 Do you remember him? 10 A. William Kennerly. I believe so. I believe 11 he did work in the aroclor department. 12 Q. Okay. Fred Lackey? 13 A. Fred Lackey? 14 Q. Yeah, Fred Lackey? 15 MR. PECK: Do you want to make sure 16 Kennerly is alive or deceased? 17 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Is Kennerly alive or dead? 18 A. I think he's dead. And Fred Lackey did work 19 there. He was chief operator when I was OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034963 20 there. 21 Q. Is he alive or dead? 22 A. He is still alive, but he's in pretty bad 23 health. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 31 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Now, there's an L. D. Lackey. Is that the 2 same person? 3 A. L. D. is a nephew, I think, of Fred's. 4 MR. PECK: Is Fred alive or dead? 5 I'm sorry.I missed it. 6 MR. WRIGHT: Fred is alive, but 7 he's in real poor health. 8 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh (indicating 9 yes), he's getting on up pretty old. 10 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Do you know what health 11 problem he's got? 12 A. No. He's getting pretty old. I really don't 13 know. 14 Q. Bill Hughes. 15 MR. WRIGHT: That's the guy we 16 deposed. But he's not on the list, is he? 17 MR. PECK: He wrote the list. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034964 18 MR. WRIGHT: We better put him on 19 the list. 20 THE WITNESS: Bill Hughes did 21 work in aroclor. 22 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Yeah, and he is still alive. 23 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 32 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Neil Steen? 2 A. He's dead. 3 Q. Did he work in the aroclor department? 4 A. He did work there. 5 Q. Okay. And the note I have says he died of 6 cancer. Is that your understanding? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. Don Robertson? 9 A. Donald Robertson? 10 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 11 A. Don is still working. I don't think he ever 12 worked in the aroclor department much. 13 Q. This says he worked in the flaking 14 operation. 15 A. He may have. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034965 16 Q. Does that ring a bell? 17 A. He may have. I don't know. 18 Q. Okay. 19 MR. PECK: Say he's still working 20 at the plant? 21 THE WITNESS: Still working, yes. 22 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Thomas Bell in the biphenyl 23 department? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 33 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Bell. Thomas did work. I think he passed 2 away. 3 MR. PECK: Is that Toby or is that 4 different, Thomas Bell? 5 MR. WRIGHT: That's different. 6 Q. Thomas Bell, did he work in the aroclor 7 department? 8 A. I think he did. 9 Q. Okay. And he's passed away? 10 A. I think so. 11 Q. Then J. T. Bell, which I think is Toby, did 12 he work in the aroclor department? 13 A. Toby Bell? OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034966 14 Q. Yeah. 15 A. I don't remember him. 16 Q. Okay. I don't think these guys are aroclor 17 because the next guy on the list is J. L. 18 Brown. 19 Jesse Corder. That's probably 20 Jesse Corder, C-o-r-d-e-r. Do you remember 21 Jesse Corder by any chance? 22 A. Corder? 23 Q. Yeah. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 34 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. I don't remember Jesse Corder. 2 Q. Fred Turner? 3 A. He was a laborer. Fred Turner, I remember 4 him. I think he's deceased. I'm not sure. 5 MR. PECK: Was he in aroclor? 6 THE WITNESS: He did work in 7 aroclor some. 8 Q. (By Mr. Wright) Aroclor laborer, and he's 9 deceased, you believe? 10 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 11 Q. Right? You believe he's deceased? OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034967 12 A. I think so. I believe so. 13 Q. Okay. Thank you. 14 MR. PECK: Did you-I'm not 15 telling you how to do things, but -- 16 MR. WRIGHT: Tell me how to do it. 17 MR. PECK: Were you going to add 18 the names that we determined were in the 19 aroclor to that list so we have a master 20 list? 21 MS. RUTH: Yeah. 22 MR. WRIGHT: What she's gonna do 23 MS. RUTH: I'm going to bring it up 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 35 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 to Latrice and let her type it allin 2 alphabetical order for us, but I'll leave 3 this here. 4 MR. PECK: I'm sorry. What I 5 meant, are we just going to go ahead and add 6 the five or so new names right now to this? 7 MR. WRIGHT: Do you want to add 8 them to that right now? We're about out of 9 room is the problem. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034968 10 MS. RUTH: Plus they're not really 11 from his memory, but you can. 12 MR. WRIGHT: Yeah, let's do them. 13 I'll write them down. I guess we can go off 14 the record. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 Q. (By Mr. Wright) I think I know what you're 17 going to say to this, but let me ask it 18 anyway. What kind of spills and leaks do you 19 remember around the aroclor department? 20 A. Well, one thing about spills and leaks, we 21 tried to keep those as small as we could and 22 get them up as quick as we could. So that's 23 what we always did any kind of spill or leak. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 36 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. Well, let me show you something and 2 see if you remember this. Do you remember in 3 November of 1969 a spill of fifteen hundred 4 gallons? 5 A. Goodness. '69? 6 Q. Yeah, I believe it was November the 6th of 7 1969. Does that ring a bell? OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034969 8 A. No, it don't. How did this get spilled? 9 Q. I believe they said a pipe busted. Let's 10 see. 11 MR. PECK: He wasn't there. 12 Q. (By Mr. Wright) I wasn't there. 13 A. Where was it? 14 Q. Yeah. The line on the bottom of the number 15 three aroclor still receiver failed. 16 A. Goodness. 17 Q. And fifteen hundred gallons of aroclor 1242 18 went to the sewer. I take it you weren't on 19 duty that day or on that shift in any event? 20 A. I don't remember that. 21 Q. Okay. Just for the record, that's a memo 22 from Bunkey Wright to Bill Papageorge, and 23 it's DSW014093. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 37 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Do you remember any other spills 2 like that? 3 A. No, I don't. 4 Q. Okay. I've seen reference in the documents 5 around -- well, actually I think it was on up OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034970 6 in 1970 of a four-hundred-gallon spill and 7 then a two-hundred-gallon spill. Do you 8 remember any of those? 9 A. No, I don't. Does it say what it was or when 10 it was? 11 Q. They were aroclors, and I don't have those 12 documents in front of me, so -- I just 13 remember seeing them. 14 A. I don't remember those. 15 Q. So you're saying you don't remember a single 16 big spill in your nine years in aroclor 17 department? 18 A. I don't. 19 Q. Okay. Did you ever examine Snow Creek? 20 A. No, I didn't. I -- no, I didn't. 21 Q. What were you going to say? 22 A. I don't know just who did that, whose j ob 23 that was to do that. That wasn't, you know, 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 38 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 part of ours. 2 Q. Did you ever have anything to do with the 3 drainage ditch that ran down to the limestone OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034971 4 ponds, limestone pits? 5 A. (Witness shakes head.) That wasn't part of 6 ourjob. 7 Q. Which aroclor, aroclors, do you remember 8 making when you left the aroclor department 9 in 1970? 10 A. We had a solids aroclor we called 5460. I 11 made that. And we had some liquid material 12 1160,1154,1142,1148. 13 Then we had some blends that we 14 made. But exactly all of the names of those, 15 I don't remember just everything. 16 Q. Do you remember any of the blends? 17 A. I don't remember what they called them. I 18 just don't remember. 19 Q. Do you remember what they were blends of? 20 A. They would mix the materials that we had to 21 make different things. 22 Q. Which materials? 23 A. The materials that were made there. Some -- 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 39 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. They'd mix the different aroclors, you're OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034972 2 saying? 3 A. Right, and make blends, and sometime they 4 would add, you know, just according to 5 whatever they wanted to make, you know. 6 Q. This is one question that I should have asked 7 before, but I don't think I have. What did 8 the aroclors look like, the different 9 aroclors? 10 A. Well, the solids once it got finished and 11 cool, it was kind of a bright dark red color 12 or something like that. 13 Then most of your liquids that were 14 made was dark, maybe towards black, you know. 15 Different colors.All of them wasn't the 16 same thing. Some darker than others; some 17 lighter. 18 Q. That's what I'm asking. Which ones -- for 19 example, what did 1242 look like? 20 A. It was kind of one of the thinner materials 21 that wasn't so very dark, but it still had 22 some coloring in it, you know. 23 Q. What color was it? I mean, what tint? I 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 40 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034973 1 guess you're saying it was kind of tinted? 2 A. Right. 3 Q. What tint did it have? Was it yellow or 4 brown or red or green? 5 A. Kind of brown. 6 Q. Okay. Was it kind of like whiskey colored? 7 A. Maybe a little darker than whiskey I've seen. 8 Q. Kind of like ice tea, maybe? 9 A. Maybe. 10 Q. What about 1148? 11 A. It was a little -- well, the higher it got in 12 numbers, the thicker it got and the darker it 13 got, you know. 14 Q. I'm calling it 1148, but what I really want 15 to really ask about is the 1248, the finished 16 aroclors. You understand that; right, even 17 though I said it wrong? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. Was your answer for 1242 the ice tea color? 20 A. Yeah. Now 48 would have been a little 21 darker, you know, the way I remember it, the 22 darker or thicker. The higher number you 23 got, the thicker it got. 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 41 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034974 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Did it also get darker the higher you went? 2 A. I believe so. 3 Q. What did 1221 look like? 4 A. It was kind of thin. I remember we made that 5 stuff. It would work off pretty quick, you 6 know, kind of thin and lighter. 7 Q. What did biphenyl look like just out of 8 curiosity? 9 A. Biphenyl? 10 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 11 A. Well, biphenyl once it got finished was a 12 white, kind of white product, you know. You 13 flaked it and everything, and it was white 14 crystal like. 15 Q. Like sugar maybe? 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. Okay. And then the solid aroclors, you said 18 were dark red -- 19 A. (Witness nods head.) 20 Q. -- colored? 21 A. Yes, yes it was. 22 Q. And you remember making which ones in 1970? 23 I'm sorry. I missed that. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034975 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 42 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. We made all the different types of material 2 on a chlorinator. 3 Q. Okay. Up until you left -- 4 A. Right. 5 Q. -- you were still making the full range of 6 them? 7 A. Right. 8 Q. Okay. What was your understanding of why the 9 aroclor plant shut down? 10 A. Well, I was on vacation. I think I'd -- 11 after I'd left the aroclor department, I went 12 to shipping department. 13 And I saw some of the fellows that 14 lived out near us, and they said they heard 15 they'd found some PCBs in turkey food 16 somewhere and they're going to shut it down. 17 That's the first I heard. 18 And they were fixing to expand the 19 department, already had the trailers in and 20 contractors and all. Sothat was very 21 disheartening. 22 Q. Had they already started the expansion OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034976 23 process? 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 43 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Well, not -- they just, I think, had the 2 plans and the trailers in to get prepared. I 3 don't believe they'd really started on 4 anything as far as the ground work and all. 5 Best I remember they had not. 6 Q. Do you remember what the expansion was going 7 to be? 8 A. One statement I heard was they was going to 9 double the size of the aroclor department. 10 Q. How long after you hearing that about the 11 PCBs in the turkey food was it before the 12 plant actually shut down? And it's my 13 understanding they shut down on liquids first 14 and solids later; is that your understanding? 15 A. I believe that's the way it was. 16 Q. How long was it until they shut down on the 17 liquids from the time you heard that 18 statement until the time they shut it down? 19 A. I don't remember exactly. I don't remember. 20 Just seemed like it wasn't very long though, OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034977 21 but I don't remember exactly. 22 Q. Were you involved in taking the plant 23 apart -- 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 44 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. No. 2 Q. -- the aroclor plant? 3 A. Seemed like they contracted that. They came 4 in and a contractor did most of that. 5 Q. Do you know which contractor it was? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Do you know what they did with the -- 8 A. No. 9 Q. -- old pieces of the plant? 10 A. No. See, that was nothing to do with my job. 11 Q. I believe that's all I have. Thank you very 12 much. 13 A. Thank you. 14 15 (Deposition concluded at 2:40 p.m.) 16FURTHER THE DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 17 18 OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034978 19 20 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO 45 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA ) 4 CALHOUN COUNTY ) 5 6 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the above and 7 foregoing transcript was taken down by me in 8 stenotype, and the questions and answers thereto 9 were transcribed by means of computer-aided 10 transcription, and that the foregoing represents 11 a true and correct transcript of the testimony 12 given by said witness. 13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither 14 of counsel, nor of any relation to the parties to 15 the action, nor am I anywise interested in the 16 result of said cause. OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034979 17 18 19 20 21 TAMMY R. JENNINGS GREGORY Notary Public, State of Alabama 22 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: 9-12-2001 23 2001 PARK PLACE, SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1-800-888-DEPO OWENS 10-27-1999 Abernathy, Jesse.txt[8/22/2017 3:30:47 PM] HARTOLDMON0034980