Document jyYzXv4XEGBQRYMm4YK3Oj2GQ

file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 0001 1 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS 2 CUYAHOGA COUNTY, OHIO 3 JUDGE HANNA 4 CV-588713 5 6 LOWELL WAYNE REESE; et al., 7 Plaintiffs, 8 9 V. 10 11 A. C. Delco; et al., 12 Defendants. 13 14 15 16 DEPOSITION TESTIMONY OF: 17 LOWELL WAYNE REESE 18 OCTOBER 10, 2006 19 9:00 A.M. EST 20 21 22 23 REPORTED BY: LORI S. SIZEMORE, CSR, RPR 0002 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION INDEX 3 EXAMINATION OF LOWELL WAYNE REESE 4 BY MR. DIMUZIO .............. 10 5 BY MS. MASCIO ............. 2044 6 BY MR. MARTUCCI ........ 205 7 8 EXHIBIT INDEX 9 Plaintiff's 10 2 Color photo 11 3 Color photo 12 4 Drum Brake diagram 13 5 Color photo 65 67 68 71 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (1 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 14 6 Color photo 72 15 7 Color photo 96 16 9 Color photo 98 17 11 Wear indicator diagram 100 18 12 Brochure 131 19 13 Handwritten notes - 5 pages 174 20 14 EPA Information on Guidance 176 for Preventing Asbestos 21 Disease Among Auto Mechanics 22 15 EPA Information on Guidance 195 for Preventing Asbestos 23 Exposure Among Brake and 0003 1 APPEARANCES 2 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF: 3 4 Gary M. DiMuzio 5 LAW OFFICES OF GARY DIMUZIO 6 P. O. Box 272909 7 Houston, Texas 77277 8 9 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANTS: 10 11 For Daimler Chrysler Corp., 12 Volkswagen of America, Inc., 13 Rexnord Corp, Stearns Division, 14 Matthew C. O'Connell 15 SUTTER, O'CONNELL & FARCHIONE 16 3600 Erieview Tower 17 1301 East 9th Street 18 Cleveland, Ohio 44114 19 20 For Maremont Corp., 21 Jeffrey L. Larson 22 KASOWITZ, BENSON, 23 TORRES & FRIEDMAN, LLP 0004 1 700 Louisiana Street, Suite 2200 2 Houston, Texas 77002 3 4 For Genuine Parts Company, incorrectly 5 identified as NAPA Auto Parts, 6 Carmen A. Martucci file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (2 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 7 RILEY, HEWITT, WITTE & ROMANO 8 650 Washington Road, Suite 300 9 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15228 10 11 For GM, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Ford, Toyota, 12 Nissan, Subaru, 13 Elizabeth Nocera Davis 14 ROETZEL & ANDRESS 15 222 South Main Street 16 Akron, Ohio 44308 17 18 For Hennessy Industries, 19 Robert Lewis 20 THOMPSON HINE LLP 21 3900 Key Center 22 127 Public Square 23 Cleveland, Ohio 44114-1291 0005 1 For American Honda Motor Company, 2 Inc., 3 Stacey Palmer 4 THOMPSON HINE LLP 5 3900 Key Center 6 127 Public Square 7 Cleveland, Ohio 44114-1291 8 For AlliedSignal Inc., 9 Karen L. Mascio 10 WILLMAN & ARNOLD, LLP 11 705 McKnight Park Drive 12 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15237 13 14 For Abex, The Welding Group, 15 Carter E. Strang 16 TUCKER, ELLIS & WEST, LLP 17 1150 Huntington Building 18 925 Euclid Avenue file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (3 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 19 Cleveland, Ohio 44115-1475 20 For Carlisle, Inc., 21 John A. Valenti 22 GALLAGHER SHARP 23 0006 1 1501 Euclid Avenue 2 Cleveland, Ohio 44115 3 4 For Eaton Corporation, 5 Matthew Snyder 6 BRZYTWA, QUICK &MCCRYSTAL, LLC 7 1660 West 2nd Street, Suite 900 8 Cleveland, Ohio 44113 9 For Borg Warner, 10 Linda Glassman 11 ULMER & BERNE, LLP 12 1660 West 2nd Street 13 Suite 1100 14 Cleveland, Ohio 44113 15 16 ALSO PRESENT: 17 Torey Lindsey 18 Becky Reese 19 20 21 22 23 0007 1 I, Lori S. Sizemore, a Registered 2 Professional Reporter, acting as file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (4 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 3 Commissioner, certify that on this date, 4 pursuant to the Ohio Rules of Civil 5 Procedure, and the foregoing stipulation 6 of counsel, there came before me at The 7 Marriott, Cincinnati, Ohio, commencing at 8 approximately 9:00 A.M. EST on OCTOBER 10, 9 2006, LOWELL WAYNE REESE, witness in the 10 above cause, for oral examination, 11 whereupon the following proceedings were 12 had: 13 14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This begins 15 videotape number one in the deposition of 16 Lowell Wayne Reese, in the matter of 17 Lowell Wayne Reese; et al. vs. A.C. Delco; 18 et al. Defendant Case No. CV-588713. 19 We're on the record at 9:14 a.m. Today is 20 Tuesday, October 10, 2006. My name is 21 Paul Brewer. Will counsel please identify 22 yourself and state whom you represent. 23 MR. DIMUZIO: My name is Gary 0008 1 DiMuzio, and I am here for the plaintiffs. 2 MR. LEWIS: Robert Lewis, and I am 3 here for Hennessy Industries. And I'd 4 like to note for the record that Hennessy 5 has not yet been served and by appearing 6 today we're not waiving proper serving. 7 MR. DIMUZIO: Off the record. 8 9 (Whereupon, a brief discussion was 10 held off the record.) 11 12 MR. DIMUZIO: Back on the record. 13 14 LOWELL WAYNE REESE, 15 being first duly sworn, was examined 16 and testified as follows: 17 18 COURT REPORTER: And you stated 19 your stipulations. Do you want them on 20 the record? 21 MR. DIMUZIO: Yeah, I guess we do file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (5 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 22 want them on the record. One objection by 23 one party present is good for all, going 0009 1 by the Ohio rules, waiving objections 2 except as to form. Any other housekeeping 3 matters? 4 (No response.) 5 6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. DIMUZIO: 8 Q. Good morning, Mr. Reese. 9 A. Good morning. 10 Q. Mr. Reese, could you please state 11 your full name for the record? 12 A. Lowell Wayne Reese. 13 Q. And, Mr. Reese, how old a man are 14 you? 15 A. I'm sixty-two. 16 Q. Starting with the easy ones. And 17 where were you born? 18 A. I was born in the state of 19 Kentucky, Lee County. 20 Q. And do you have any brothers and 21 sisters? 22 A. I have four sisters and I have 23 eight brothers. 0010 1 Q. And where did you fall in the mix? 2 What child were you? 3 A. I'm the caboose. I'm the last 4 one. I'm the youngest one. 5 Q. And what sort of line of work was 6 your family engaged in back then? 7 A. My dad done farming and logging. 8 Just farming and logging is about all he 9 ever done. 10 Q. Now, I heard you mention previously 11 something about your father being a 12 sharecropper. First of all, exactly what 13 is a sharecropper? 14 A. Well, a sharecropper -- I was born 15 on a sharecropper's farm. That's where my 16 dad and mom moved to. And they tended file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (6 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 17 hemp after World War II. And then they 18 had hay and corn, and you get a part of it 19 for tending it. You know, for the crop, 20 you get a part of the crop. 21 Q. I see. And were you living in your 22 own house or were you living in a house 23 that the landowner owned, or how did that 0011 1 work? 2 A. We lived in the house the landowner 3 owned. 4 Q. Was it a pretty nice place? 5 A. Well, that's where I was born at. 6 We survived. I guess back at that time it 7 was a normal sharecropper's house to live 8 in. 9 Q. Did you have electricity and that 10 sort of thing and plumbing? 11 A. No. 12 Q. No electricity? 13 A. No electricity. 14 Q. No plumbing? 15 A. No plumbing. 16 Q. And did you ever help out around 17 the farm? Did you ever do anything 18 yourself? 19 A. Not there. No, I was born there. 20 I was little at that sharecropper farm. 21 Q. Did eventually your family move 22 away from a sharecropping home and get 23 into their own home? 0012 1 A. They did. 2 Q. About how old were you when that 3 happened? 4 A. We moved back to the old farm when 5 I was seven. 6 Q. And what kind of work was your 7 father engaged in at that time? 8 A. At that time, he was in the sawmill 9 business. He was a logger. 10 Q. And did he do any farming or 11 ranching as well? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (7 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 12 A. He done some farming. He had a 13 tobacco crop and hay and corn. 14 Q. Now, were you living on your own 15 property at this time? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Was this your own house that your 18 family owned? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Did that house have any kind of 21 electricity or running water or anything 22 like that? 23 A. It did not. 0013 1 Q. First of all, what sort of chores 2 would you do working around the house or 3 the farm when you were a boy growing up at 4 that house? 5 A. Well, just whatever you could do. 6 Most of the time, I was the water boy. I 7 carried the others water and helped feed 8 the livestock. 9 Q. Did you ever work on any of the 10 equipment there, by any chance? 11 A. We didn't have but just a mowing 12 machine and a rake with the horses. We 13 didn't -- at that farm, we didn't even 14 have any tractors or anything, combustion 15 engines or anything on it. 16 Q. Now, it's my understanding at some 17 point your father died when you were a 18 boy; is that correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How old were you when that 21 happened? 22 A. I was eleven. 23 Q. Did you have to kind of step up 0014 1 your responsibilities about what you were 2 doing around the house and the farm after 3 that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What sort of things were you doing 6 from the time you were eleven on? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (8 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 7 A. I would milk the cows and feed the 8 hogs, feed the horses. Just work 9 around -- anything that I could do that I 10 was big enough to do. 11 Q. I see. I understand from your 12 prior testimony that at some point your 13 family managed to get enough money 14 together to buy a tractor of some sort is 15 that correct? 16 A. My brother bought a tractor when he 17 got enough money, yes. 18 Q. And did you ever help out working 19 on that tractor at all? Was that some of 20 the first mechanic-type work you did as a 21 boy? 22 A. That is the first, yes, sir. 23 Q. And how old were you, for example, 0015 1 when you did your first brake job, for 2 example? 3 A. Well, the first brake job, I was 4 probably twelve or thirteen year old then. 5 Q. I gotcha. And when did you leave 6 the farm, so to speak? How old were you 7 when you finally got off the farm or went 8 to do some other work? 9 A. Well, really we done farming work 10 till I was about seventeen year old. 11 Q. And it's my understanding that at 12 some point you began to work at some sort 13 of a service station up here in 14 Cincinnati; is that correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And what was the name of the shop 17 that you first started working at? 18 A. The first place I worked was Tyson 19 Senoco. 20 Q. And that was about what year? 21 A. 1961. 22 Q. I do want to just go back to your 23 family before we start talking about some 0016 1 of these other things. First of all, you file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (9 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 2 mentioned your brothers and sisters. How 3 many of them are still surviving, by the 4 way? 5 A. I've got two brothers still alive 6 and three sisters. 7 Q. And you're the baby of the family; 8 correct? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Now, what about your current 11 family? Are you a married man? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. How long have you been married? 14 A. This time -- my first wife died in 15 19 -- well, she died in '90, and I married 16 this lady here in '92. 17 Q. And you say this lady. She's here 18 present in the room today; is that 19 correct? 20 A. She is. 21 Q. And what's her name? 22 A. Becky. 23 Q. And now what about children? Do 0017 1 you have any children yourself? 2 A. I have four girls with my first 3 wife. 4 Q. And what's the age range on those 5 girls right now? 6 A. The oldest one is forty-five, the 7 next one is forty and thirty-eight and 8 thirty-three. 9 Q. And what about grandkids? Do you 10 have any grandkids at this point? 11 A. By my kids, I have ten. 12 Q. Ten grandkids. And I don't want 13 you to list them all for us, but what kind 14 of age range are we talking about? 15 A. The oldest one is twenty-three and 16 the youngest one is probably -- she's 17 about two and a half now. 18 Q. And do you get a chance to see 19 them? Are they in the Cincinnati area, or 20 how often do you get to see your family? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (10 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 21 A. Every week. 22 Q. When's the last time you saw most 23 of your grandkids, for example? 0018 1 A. Sunday. 2 Q. Good enough. Now, in terms of -- I 3 know you work a lot. It's my 4 understanding, and I believe you testified 5 before, that you've been working like, 6 what, sixty-hour weeks since the time you 7 were eighteen, nineteen years old; is that 8 correct? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. What do you do when you want to 11 have some fun when you're not working at 12 the service station? 13 A. Well, we usually get together and 14 go down -- we've got a farm in Kentucky. 15 We go down there and ride four-wheelers 16 and just camp out when we get time. But 17 usually they all go when I go, if they 18 can. 19 Q. Do you and your wife do any of this 20 four-wheeling yourselves? 21 A. Oh, yes. 22 Q. Like what kind of things would you 23 and your wife do on four-wheelers? 0019 1 A. Well, we usually ride and -- I take 2 the front and she takes the back and put 3 the grandkids between us. They've got 4 four-wheelers also, the ones that are big 5 enough to ride. 6 Q. Now, I also understand that 7 recently you bought some sort of a large 8 -- like travel bus or trailer; is that 9 correct? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. What is that, exactly? 12 A. I've got a forty-foot American 13 Eagle motor coach. 14 Q. Is that like one of those buses 15 like country and western bands or rock file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (11 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 16 bands will buy and travel around in? Is 17 that what that is? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. And what was the basic plan with 20 that piece of equipment? What were you 21 going to do that? 22 A. I'm trying to slow down a little 23 bit and enjoy it before I get too old to 0020 1 drive it. 2 Q. And when did you buy that thing? 3 A. In February of '04. 4 Q. Have you got a chance to take that 5 out on the road at all with your wife? 6 A. Well, we did -- I've had it out a 7 couple of times before I got sick. But I 8 can't go much with it now. We haven't 9 been out but once this year. 10 Q. I gotcha. I also understand in 11 addition to four-wheelers and hanging out 12 with the family for fun and then your work 13 with automobiles, you actually have a 14 personal interest in auto racing; is that 15 correct? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And I don't need all of your 18 involvement. If you'd just give us a 19 thumbnail sketch of what sort of things 20 you like to do that involve racing and 21 what your activities have been. 22 A. Well, for the last -- about the 23 last six year, we went with a ASA team. 0021 1 And I would take the motor home -- I had a 2 motor home, a little one, before I got the 3 one I have now. And I would pull a 4 trailer. And it had a golf cart in it. 5 And my main job was to haul the fuel tanks 6 in. The small tracks where you can't get 7 the big trucks in, haul the fuel tanks in 8 with the golf cart or take the driver to 9 wherever he needs to go in the golf cart. 10 Q. I don't know much about this area. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (12 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 11 Are we talking about drag strips or where 12 they go around in circles or on streets? 13 What kind of racing is this exactly? 14 A. No. It was what you call the 15 roundy round. You know, the -- they were 16 small tracks like a quarter-of-a-mile 17 track or half-a-mile track, not the super 18 speedways. 19 Q. I gotcha. Okay. And where would 20 you go to do this sort of activity? 21 A. Well, all over -- I never did go 22 out west with them, but eastern states: 23 Kentucky, Florida, Michigan and Indiana. 0022 1 Q. When I visited your shop, I noticed 2 you had a bunch of like metals and 3 trophies and that sort of things. Is that 4 what those awards were for? 5 A. No. Them are back when I was young 6 drag racing. That was a quarter-mile 7 straight line. 8 Q. I gotcha. 9 A. I had my own car back when I was - 10 first went into business. I built me a 11 race car. And after I got kids, I 12 couldn't afford the car and afford the 13 kids so the car had to go. 14 Q. Fair enough, fair enough. Now, 15 also -- I know we just very quickly 16 touched on you starting to work in the 17 auto business, but before we get into the 18 details of that, when you began working, 19 it was part-time, and you were working for 20 another service station owner; is that 21 correct? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. And then finally, about 1966 or so, 0023 1 you managed to open your own station; is 2 that correct? 3 A. 1967. 4 Q. 1967. Can you just sort of give us 5 a thumbnail sketch of what other file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (13 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 6 businesses you eventually started becoming 7 involved in over time? 8 A. Well, after I got my own service 9 station, then I went into the towing 10 business and then later went into the body 11 shop and -- you know, body shop business. 12 And I bought some property, you know, 13 housing, and had that developed. And I 14 bought a farm. You know, I've always had 15 two or three things going at the same 16 time, if I could, you know, in the last 17 few years. 18 Q. I see. And in terms of these 19 businesses now -- well, first of all, one 20 other question I had, at one point I 21 understand that you had a dealer's 22 license, and you actually sold cars; is 23 that right? 0024 1 A. I still do. 2 Q. Are you doing a lot of that right 3 now? 4 A. I haven't done any this year. 5 Q. And why is that? 6 A. Well, I haven't been able. 7 Q. I gotcha. Now, right now, of the 8 businesses there at your service station 9 on Montgomery Road, what businesses there 10 do you still currently own? 11 A. I still own -- I'm over everything, 12 but the tow I've got and the service, and 13 the rental property. 14 Q. What about the quick store in 15 there? Do you still own that? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Who did you sell that to? 18 A. I sold that to my daughter and 19 son-in-law. 20 Q. And you still have management 21 responsibilities for those stores; is that 22 correct? 23 A. Well, yes. 0025 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (14 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 1 Q. Now, have you had to cut back on 2 the amount of work you've done in the last 3 year or so? 4 A. I haven't done any work in the last 5 year. 6 Q. And again, I think you mentioned it 7 before, but why is that? 8 A. Well, I've been under that chemo 9 and then in and out of the hospital so 10 many times, I haven't felt like working. 11 Q. Now, I understand your wife also 12 did some work in conjunction with your 13 businesses; is that correct? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Has she been able to keep up the 16 sort of work schedule she did prior to you 17 getting sick? 18 A. No. 19 Q. And why is that? 20 A. She's been taking care of me. 21 Q. In terms of your businesses over 22 the year, have you ever had any really 23 long-term employees? People who would 0026 1 stay with you for a number of years? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Can you just name a few people and 4 approximately how long they stayed with 5 you? 6 A. Kenny Wilson has been with me over 7 twenty-five year. 8 Q. Is he still with you? 9 A. He's still with me today. And I 10 have had -- Cooley Miller was with me 11 probably fifteen year, and Mergenthal was 12 with me -- Dave Mergenthal was with me 13 probably a good ten, twelve year. A lot 14 of them break off on their own. They 15 learn the business, and they go out and 16 start their own. And I have helped them 17 do so, if they leave on good terms, you 18 know. 19 Q. Well, let's talk about some of file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (15 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 20 these long-term guys. What about Cooley 21 Miller? Did he actually work with you 22 doing auto repair work at your station 23 over the years? 0027 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And for how long did he do that? 3 A. He was with me at Tyson's too. We 4 worked together part-time there together. 5 And then when I bought my station, he 6 come -- or leased it the first -- he come 7 to work for me then. And he stayed with 8 me for about -- I want to say probably 9 fifteen year. 10 Q. And would he be familiar with your 11 basic work practices and the products that 12 were being worked on in the shop and that 13 sort of thing? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Now, what about Dave Mergenthal? 16 How long did he stay with you? 17 A. Dave was probably with me for about 18 ten year. 19 Q. And was he also doing automotive 20 repair work with you? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And would he also be familiar with 23 your basic work practices and the kind of 0028 1 products you'd be working on? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Are both of those fellows still 4 alive? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Are they both in the Cincinnati 7 area? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Right now, including the quick 10 store and your service station, your 11 towing business and the lot and all those 12 things, approximately how many employees 13 do you have? 14 A. I'd say about twelve. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (16 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 15 Q. And has that been much fluctuation 16 over the years? Have you ever had a lot 17 more or a lot less since, say, the early 18 '70s? 19 A. That's been about average. 20 Q. Now, I don't want to get into a lot 21 of this, Mr. Reese. I know it's a little 22 unpleasant for you. But I understand that 23 you've come down with a pretty serious 0029 1 illness; is that correct? 2 A. Yes, that's correct. 3 Q. How did you start realizing that 4 something was wrong? 5 A. Well, I was working, and I started 6 running out of air, which I'm still out of 7 air. I apologize for my voice, but that's 8 the best I've got. And I would get to the 9 point where I would go out to work -- and 10 then I started hauling the cars where I 11 could sit down a lot in the last year, and 12 I would get out on my truck and bend over 13 and hook up my car, and I would get 14 dizzy. I would have to hold onto the 15 car. And then one Sunday morning, I 16 couldn't breathe. So my wife took me to 17 the hospital, and that's where they 18 diagnosed me with having cancer, Christ 19 Hospital. 20 Q. Christ Hospital here in Cincinnati? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. And about when was that? When did 23 the symptoms get so bad you felt like you 0030 1 had to get some medical attention? 2 A. It was in November of '05. 3 Q. Do you remember any of the names of 4 the doctors who helped out with diagnosing 5 you? 6 A. Well, the only one that I really 7 know is Dr. Lemming. And of course, he 8 had other -- there was other people - 9 staff doctors at the hospital, but I don't file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (17 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 10 recall their names. I mean, I could 11 probably get it. I've got bills from all 12 of them. 13 Q. What did the doctor tell you about 14 your illness once he figured out what was 15 wrong with you? 16 A. He said I had lung cancer. 17 Q. Did he have any particular name of 18 the disease? The particular form of 19 cancer that you have? 20 A. Yeah, but I can't pronounce it. 21 I've got a card with it wrote on it. 22 Q. Do you have that card with you? 23 A. I do. 0031 1 Q. Why don't you pull that out just so 2 we can get on the record what it is. You 3 can read it. 4 A. His name is Dr. Lemming, and it's 5 M-E-S-O-T-H-E-L-I-O-M-A, mesoloma (sic). 6 Q. Mesothelioma. 7 A. Mesothelioma. 8 Q. And why did you have that written 9 on a card like that, actually? 10 A. Because I couldn't remember what I 11 had. 12 Q. Fair enough, fair enough. Let me 13 ask you first of all, was that the first 14 time that you'd ever heard of 15 mesothelioma? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Did the doctor discuss your work 18 history or come to any kind of conclusions 19 about what might have caused this? 20 A. He said it's caused by asbestos. 21 Q. And did he ask you about your work 22 history? 23 A. He did. 0032 1 Q. Did he point anything out to you 2 about your work history? 3 A. After I told him what I did and 4 then we talked about it, he said it was file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (18 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 5 probably in brakes, where I got it from. 6 Q. I think you may have already 7 answered this, but just to be clear, when 8 did you first realize that working with 9 asbestos in the automotive industry could 10 give you cancer? 11 A. Well, I've known about it for 12 probably five, six, seven, eight year 13 that -- on things to look for. But in 14 talking with -- nobody has ever told me 15 what or when, you know, any particular 16 thing. I knew that anything that had 17 asbestos in it in the last few years, you 18 know, was not good for you. 19 Q. When did you first realize that 20 actually working around automotive 21 products and that sort of thing could 22 actually give you a disease like 23 mesothelioma? 0033 1 A. I didn't know that until the doctor 2 told me. 3 Q. I just want to know -- and I know 4 you're not a medical doctor and you 5 probably don't understand a lot of what 6 they did to you, but could you just 7 basically tell me what the doctors have 8 tried to do for you? First of all, what 9 did they have to do to figure out that it 10 was mesothelioma? 11 A. Well, the first I went in into the 12 emergency room because I couldn't 13 breathe. And my regular family doctor had 14 me admitted, and had some tests run. And 15 the right lung was totally collapsed. It 16 was flat when I went in the hospital. And 17 then once they admitted me, you know, they 18 done several things to me in the emergency 19 room. I was in there for about probably 20 four hours. Then they sent me up to a 21 room. And then another doctor come in, 22 the lung doctor, and checked me. And it 23 was on a Sunday night. And he said, We've file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (19 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 0034 1 got to do an operation on you to get that 2 fluid off of your lung tonight. And I 3 said, On a Sunday night? And he said, 4 Yeah, I'm afraid if we wait until 5 tomorrow, we won't have a patient. So 6 they went in my back and got two liters of 7 fluid off the right lung. And then they 8 come back -- I think it was Tuesday or 9 Wednesday of the following week -- that 10 was on a Sunday, and on a Tuesday or 11 Wednesday they got another liter and a 12 half of fluid off that lung. At which 13 time the -- whatever they do in that lung, 14 they got it back up and operating. Then 15 they cleaned it all out, and then they 16 glued it -- they call it talc. They glued 17 that lung in my right side, and it's still 18 glued in. And I'll have to keep that in 19 as long as I live. 20 Q. And did they give you any kind of 21 medications or chemotherapy after this? 22 A. Oh, yeah, I had another operation 23 after that in the lung -- with another 0035 1 lung doctor, and then I went on chemo. I 2 was on chemo for six months. 3 Q. And when did that start and end, 4 approximately? 5 A. They started the chemo in December 6 and went one treatment a month. 7 Q. What was the impact on that 8 treatment on you? Did you suffer any kind 9 of side effects from that treatment? 10 A. Well, yeah. Chemo makes you so 11 sick you just want to die. 12 Q. Fair enough. What about today? 13 Are you on any particular sorts of 14 medications or ongoing treatment plan or 15 anything else? 16 A. Well, I'm still on my blood 17 pressure medicine, and I have just a 18 little pill I take for sugar. I'm file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (20 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 19 watching my sugar. But then I'm on 20 Oxycodone for pain. 21 Q. Are you having to take Oxycodone 22 on -- what, a daily, weekly basis? How 23 often do you have to take it? 0036 1 A. Just when you get in a bad pain. 2 And sometimes I take three or four a day, 3 and then I might go a day that I don't 4 have to take any. It's just whenever I 5 need it, I can take it if I want to. I'm 6 the judge on that. He don't tell me when 7 to take it or when not to take it on 8 that. He said, the pain -- you know, when 9 it hurts, you'll know when to take it. 10 Q. Do you feel like -- even though you 11 may be on some medications, do you feel 12 like you're in good shape to testify 13 today? 14 A. Oh, I think so. 15 Q. Now, you've already given prior 16 days' of deposition testimony in this 17 case; correct? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Do you feel like when you gave 20 those depositions that you were in pretty 21 good shape and were clear enough to give 22 good testimony? 23 A. I think so. 0037 1 Q. Now, there was a lot of 2 conversation -- that I don't want to 3 duplicate, but there was a lot of 4 conversation about how often you did 5 certain types of work and what percentages 6 of various companies' products that you 7 worked with. Do you remember all that 8 testimony, sir? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Do you think your estimations for 11 the various amounts of time that you did 12 certain types of work was reasonably 13 accurate? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (21 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 14 A. To the best of my knowledge, I give 15 the best that I could recall and remember 16 to doing it, yes, sir. 17 Q. And what about the various 18 percentages of one brand from another? Do 19 you think that was about the best 20 approximation you could come up with off 21 the top of your head? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. Do you think those numbers are 0038 1 exact numbers, for example? 2 A. It wouldn't be exact, but it's as 3 close as I could remember. 4 Q. Fair enough, fair enough. Now, 5 given this diagnosis of mesothelioma, let 6 me just point blank ask you: Are you 7 worried about it? 8 A. Well, sure, I'm worried about it. 9 Q. And why are you worried about it? 10 A. Well, they told me I only had 11 twelve to eighteen months to live. 12 Q. What sort of things are you 13 concerned about other than obviously the 14 fact that they've given you a bad 15 prognosis? 16 A. Well, I'm just -- I mean, until you 17 sit where I sit, I don't know how to 18 explain it to you. You just see the whole 19 world shut down in front of you. I mean, 20 it's hard -- you can't work, and I can't 21 take the grandkids and my wife or nothing. 22 Q. You okay? 23 A. Yeah. 0039 1 Q. Let's get on to another subject. 2 Other than working as an auto mechanic, do 3 you have any knowledge that you were 4 exposed to asbestos in any other way? 5 A. Not to my knowledge. 6 Q. Okay. Are you okay to keep going? 7 A. Oh, yeah, I'm fine. 8 Q. I want to kind of start talking file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (22 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 9 about your work history now as a mechanic, 10 if we can. Okay? 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. Approximately what year did you 13 start working as a mechanic? 14 A. 1961. 15 Q. Now, was that full or part-time 16 work at that time? 17 A. At that time, it was part-time. 18 Q. And who was the gentleman that you 19 were working with? 20 A. That I worked for? 21 Q. Right. 22 A. I worked for a guy by the name of 23 Ed Tyson. 0040 1 Q. Was Ed Tyson a pretty good 2 mechanic? 3 A. He was an excellent mechanic. 4 Q. How did he get his training, if you 5 know? 6 A. He was a mechanic and -- supervisor 7 working mechanic for Anchor Motor 8 Freight. They hauled new cars. 9 Q. And what kind of cars was he 10 working on when he was trained as a 11 mechanic for Anchor? 12 A. Basically, trucks. He worked 13 for -- Anchor was the carrier that hauls 14 the trucks. 15 Q. And what sort of work would he do 16 on those trucks, if you know? 17 A. Anything that went wrong. They had 18 like -- it was a big company. Anchor 19 Motor Freight is a big company. And 20 whatever needed to be done to their trucks 21 in the Cincinnati terminal. They run the 22 terminal out of Cincinnati, and he was the 23 worker supervisor. I think maybe he might 0041 1 have started out as a mechanic, and then 2 he became supervisor for Anchor Motor 3 Freight working on the trucks' motors, file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (23 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 4 transmissions, clutches, brakes or 5 anything that they would need done. I 6 mean, he could do anything. 7 Q. Now, in addition to being trained 8 by Mr. Tyson, have you ever had any 9 opportunity to train under any other 10 mechanics or take any sort of course work 11 or anything like that? 12 A. Well, when I went in business for 13 Sun Oil Company, I went to Sun Oil Company 14 school and took their training. And I've 15 had -- over the years since then, I've had 16 training from a lot of the -- like Delco 17 school, General Motors. Which Delco and 18 General Motors are the same thing. But 19 went through their training and through 20 their schools and took seminars where they 21 would be putting them on at my parts house 22 where I bought most of the parts. So I've 23 been in a lot of training schools. 0042 1 Q. When you talk about these training 2 schools, are we talking about like 3 fifteen, twenty minutes or an hour 4 presentation, or was this a more in-depth 5 sort of presentation? 6 A. Well, Sun Oil Company was six 7 weeks, forty hours a week. And then the 8 Delco, where we went at General Motors 9 training center, that could be a one-day 10 or a two-day seminar. It was -- you know, 11 it depends on what you were going for. It 12 could be -- one or two-day, normally, 13 would take care of that. I don't ever 14 remember going to them more than three 15 days in a row. 16 Q. Was this an actual structure that 17 was being operated by Delco to do these 18 courses, to your knowledge? 19 A. General Motors training center, 20 yes, sir. 21 Q. And where was that located? 22 A. Out on Reading Road in file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (24 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 23 Sherrodsville. 0043 1 Q. Let me get on to a little bit of a 2 different subject. Did you ever have 3 contact with, say, salespeople at these 4 various parts stores? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Like -- obviously, they were trying 7 to sell you products; right? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. You know, would they have 10 presentations they would actually make to 11 you as well? 12 A. They did. 13 Q. And where would these generally 14 occur, these presentations? 15 A. It depends on what it was. Some of 16 them could be -- if it was a large piece 17 of equipment or something, they would come 18 to your shop and teach you how to use it. 19 Or in most cases, they would have it in 20 the parts house that was selling the 21 part. And they would have more than just 22 you there. They would invite in maybe as 23 high as ten people at a time to put on the 0044 1 seminar in the parts house. 2 Q. And what were some of the parts 3 houses that you purchased parts from in 4 the Cincinnati area? 5 A. Well, the biggest one that I 6 always -- was Staggy Auto Parts, and then 7 there was a Wilcox Auto Parts that we 8 bought from and NAPA. Staggy was our big 9 supplier. 10 Q. Where was the NAPA store that you 11 purchased items from? 12 A. It was in Norwood. 13 Q. Do you remember, by any chance, the 14 actual location in Norwood? 15 A. I don't remember the address. I 16 know where it's at. 17 Q. Fair enough. And when did you file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (25 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:48 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 18 first start doing business with that NAPA 19 dealer? 20 A. In 1961. 21 Q. And when did you stop doing 22 business with them? 23 A. I still -- I haven't. I still buy 0045 1 from them. 2 Q. What kind of parts would you be 3 purchasing from this NAPA dealership in 4 Norwood? 5 A. Well, normally, whatever we - 6 basically, with Staggy, but NAPA had a lot 7 bigger supply. Anything that the other 8 parts house maybe didn't have, you would 9 get from the NAPA. And then they had a 10 machine shop in NAPA where if you was 11 doing valve jobs -- back in those days, 12 cars going up to forty thousand miles, 13 they needed a valve job. And then we 14 would take the heads off the cars and then 15 take them to NAPA, or they would come and 16 get them and resurface the heads and bring 17 them back. 18 Q. Now, I believe you got into a 19 fairly extended conversation about that in 20 one of the other days of your deposition; 21 is that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. All that testimony, to your 0046 1 knowledge, was accurate? 2 A. To the best I could do. 3 Q. Sure. Now, did you also buy any 4 parts from, say, any of the local car 5 dealers? 6 A. We bought parts from all the car 7 dealers if the parts house didn't have 8 it. And a lot of times, if it was -- like 9 brakes, we would buy brakes from the car 10 company. You know, Ford or Chevrolet or 11 whatever the car was, if the people would 12 let us buy there. If they want to pay it, file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (26 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 13 it was always higher. So we would go 14 there to get the parts if they wanted 15 premium parts. 16 Q. I see. And again, in your prior 17 deposition testimony, you got into a 18 pretty extensive conversation about what 19 dealers you went to around town; is that 20 correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Was all that testimony accurate, to 23 your recollection? 0047 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And again, I don't want to belabor 3 it and go through all those, but as you 4 sit here today, what are some of the 5 locations of the dealers that you remember 6 going to? 7 A. Well, the biggest one we used to go 8 to was Economy Chevrolet in Norwood. It 9 was a Chevrolet dealership. And Norwood 10 Ford was -- the guy that owned it was 11 Joseph Leonard, Norwood Ford. And then we 12 had Kim Ott Dodge. We'd go to Kim Ott 13 Dodge. And another Ford dealer we used 14 was Rocky Fill over on Vine Street. And 15 Hassen's VW was in Norwood. And then just 16 about -- you know, any of the -- the 17 Cadillac dealer was in Montgomery. That 18 was CaMargo Cadillac. It wasn't called 19 CaMargo then. It was a different name, 20 but that's who owns it now. It's still in 21 business you can get parts from. 22 Q. Any others that you can remember 23 buying auto parts from just as we sit here 0048 1 today? 2 A. Well, I mean -- like I say, all the 3 dealers, I've bought parts from over the 4 years. 5 Q. Now, in all the time where you were 6 having training or salesmen were talking 7 to you about selling their products, did file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (27 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 8 anyone -- over all those years, did anyone 9 ever warn you that asbestos was dangerous 10 and could cause cancer? 11 A. No, sir. 12 Q. Do you think if somebody had warned 13 you about that and gotten your attention, 14 you'd remember that kind of a warning? 15 A. I certainly would. 16 Q. Going a little bit further, do you 17 recall anybody -- any of these salespeople 18 or any of these dealers or anyone at any 19 of the training sessions you ever had, did 20 any of them ever warn you about doing 21 specific work on a car, that it could be 22 dangerous and give you cancer? 23 A. No, sir. 0049 1 Q. I want to ask you a little bit 2 about some of the work that you did. And 3 I think we're going to take a short break 4 here in just a minute, but what sort of 5 repair work did your shop do over the 6 years? 7 A. Over the years, we did everything, 8 you know, that there was to do to a car 9 from bumper to bumper at one time or 10 another, you know. But then as time went 11 on, we got away from the engine overhauls, 12 because they don't need that today like 13 they used to. And valve jobs, they don't 14 need that. But we would do anything to an 15 automobile that -- whatever the problem it 16 would have. 17 Q. Now, would you actually be doing 18 this work hands-on yourself? 19 A. A lot of it, yes, sir. 20 Q. And for example -- I just want to 21 sort of go decade by decade. In the '60s, 22 how often were you actually doing hands-on 23 work at the garage? 0050 1 A. In the '60s, all the time. 2 Q. Are we talking three days a week, file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (28 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 3 four days a week, five days? 4 A. Seven, a lot of times. Either six 5 or seven. Sometimes I didn't have to work 6 on a Sunday if I could get somebody. 7 Q. What about in the '70s? How often 8 were you doing hands-on work where you 9 were actively repairing a car? 10 A. All of the '70s. 11 Q. What about the '80s? 12 A. '80s, I started to slack off a 13 little bit and be more of a manager and 14 helper. 15 Q. Were you still doing hands-on auto 16 mechanic work in the 1980s. 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Were you doing all the different 19 sorts of repairs that were being done in 20 the shop at that time? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And again, I think you've given 23 extensive testimony about this in the 0051 1 prior days' deposition. To the best of 2 your knowledge, all that testimony was 3 accurate? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. Now, were you the only person doing 6 work at the garage at this time? 7 A. No, I've always had helpers. 8 Q. And a lot of these repairs, could 9 you do them by yourself, or did you need 10 somebody to actually assist you? 11 A. Well, it depends on what the job 12 was. If you were doing motor work, you 13 had to have help. You couldn't lift it by 14 yourself. And if you were doing brakes, 15 you could do that by yourself. If you 16 were doing -- basically, anything to the 17 car you could basically do by yourself if 18 you had the right jacks and stuff to do 19 it, but a lot of the work we helped each 20 other on. So we didn't have to fool 21 around with a jack, we'd lift it out and file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (29 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 22 set it on the floor. 23 Q. Now, were there other mechanics 0052 1 that sometimes would be doing work on 2 projects that you had no involvement with? 3 A. They'd just doit on their own? 4 Q. Right. 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. In fact, starting in about 1967, 7 typically how many mechanics would be 8 working during your busy shift? 9 A. Well, up to '70, there was only two 10 mechanics. That was me, and I had one 11 more. We had gas pumpers, but actual 12 mechanics -- we was in a two-bay at that 13 time, and we worked one bay per man, and 14 then we'd help each other if we needed to. 15 Q. You said that was a two-bay garage? 16 A. In the '70s, yes, sir. 17 Q. And about how -- what were the - 18 A. Well, now, in '67 up to '70. Until 19 we built the new colonial style, we only 20 had two bays. 21 Q. Just talking about the '60s before 22 you built the newer style, about what were 23 the dimensions of that two-bay garage? 0053 I A. You mean - 2 Q. How long, how wide? 3 A. I think they were -- the stalls 4 were thirty foot deep and fifteen foot, 5 each, wide. But there was no divider or 6 anything in it, so the two-bay was 7 probably thirty by thirty back in those 8 days. 9 Q. And what about in the '70s? What 10 were the dimensions of the area where you II were doing most of your garage work? 12 A. Well, that was -- they still today 13 have the thirty-foot depth. So three 14 bays, that'd be forty-five foot from one 15 side to the other. 16 Q. And how many mechanics were you file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (30 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 17 working with at that point in time? 18 A. We normally had three then. 19 Q. Three, and yourself on top of that; 20 right? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. So two teams of two? 23 A. Well, a lot of times I was the 0054 1 helper and let them do their own work. 2 You know, I'd just help them out where 3 they needed work at in the garage. 4 Q. And when did that -- when did the 5 dimensions change in a significant way 6 from that? When did the garage get bigger 7 or smaller, approximately? 8 A. In the service station, they 9 didn't -- well, in the type that we had, 10 it didn't. Some places built what's 11 called a car care center where they had 12 like six bays or something, and they were 13 all open. But the regular service station 14 like we had, I don't think they've changed 15 it today, if it was a three-bay. 16 Q. So you've never had more than three 17 bays at a time; is that correct? 18 A. Well, I built four on till I had 19 seven at one time on the shop when it was 20 finished. 21 Q. And what was the most mechanics you 22 ever had working, typically, on a shift 23 period? 0055 1 A. On the shift, just me and two 2 more. Now, that's in the garage part. 3 Then the body part was totally different. 4 It had its own crew over there. Normally, 5 two people worked there. 6 Q. I see. Okay. Good. I want to ask 7 you some questions here -- I think we're 8 going to take a break in just a moment, 9 but first of all, you gave a lot of 10 testimony in the first four days here 11 regarding how to do various brake jobs. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (31 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 12 Do you recall that, sir? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. Is there any kind of real 15 difference between how you change brakes 16 on one brand of car versus another brand 17 of car? 18 A. Very little. 19 Q. So all drum brakes, it's a pretty 20 similar process; correct? 21 A. Except for the Chrysler. You have 22 to use a puller to take the rear wheel off 23 of a Chrysler because it's on a spline. 0056 1 Q. But all other aspects would be very 2 similar; correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What about disc brakes? Is that 5 very similar from manufacturer to 6 manufacturer? 7 A. Yes, they're basically the same 8 thing. 9 Q. What about clutches? 10 A. Clutches are still the same. 11 Q. What about doing gasket work? 12 A. That's all the same. 13 Q. Now, prior to the widespread use of 14 catalytic converters, what about 15 mufflers? Was that work pretty much the 16 same from car to car? 17 A. Same thing from car to car. 18 Q. Good. Now, I notice that you 19 brought a few things to the depo today. A 20 few items that you actually worked with. 21 First of all, you brought some sort of a 22 long elaborate tool. Could you pick that 23 up and hold that and explain what that is 0057 1 to the jury? 2 A. This is called the slap hammer. 3 It's made by Snap-On. And this part here 4 screws off of it, this here does 5 (indicating). They make all kind of 6 different -- this piece here is the file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (32 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 7 actual -- the axle puller that's on there, 8 that was what was on it. But then you can 9 also pull the drum. It's got different 10 settings on it. And you -- if you get one 11 that's stuck, what you do, you take this 12 and put it on the tool, and you hit it 13 like that, and it jerks the axle out or 14 jerks the brake drum off or whatever 15 you've got it hooked to. 16 Q. And how often would you have to use 17 a tool like that? 18 A. Every time on a Chrysler, 19 normally. And then if you got one that 20 hadn't had the brakes changed on it for a 21 while -- it comes in very handy on all of 22 them. But most of the time you can take a 23 hammer and beat them with a hammer, and 0058 1 it'll come off. It's a lot easier with a 2 hammer than it does this. 3 Q. And I think you actually have 4 brought a hammer that you used when you 5 were doing brake work; correct? 6 A. Yeah. I've had this hammer 7 probably for forty years. 8 Q. It's not going to wear out anytime 9 soon, I guess. What exactly would you do 10 with that when you were doing - 11 A. On your brakes, when they're rusty 12 and stuck, you just hit the drum where it 13 goes over the flange on the axle and break 14 the rust loose and pound it with this, and 15 you turn it and pound it, turn it and 16 pound it, and it'll pop off in a little 17 bit. 18 Q. Now, let me just ask you a 19 question. When you would hit those brake 20 assemblies with that hammer would that 21 affect the air around you in any way? 22 A. I don't understand what you mean 23 "affect the air". 0059 1 Q. Was it a clean process? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (33 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 2 A. No. The dust would come out of the 3 drum. You know, when you'd hit it, all 4 that dust would come out of there when 5 you're pounding on it, especially when it 6 pops off. 7 Q. What about that slap hammer? Was 8 that a clean process? 9 A. Not when the drum -- when the drum 10 would come off, it was not. 11 Q. And would that affect the air 12 around you in any way? 13 A. Well, it got dust in the air from 14 the brake. 15 Q. And in both those instances, with 16 the slap hammer and the kind of little 17 small sledge hammer you were using there, 18 could you actually see that dust in the 19 air? 20 A. Oh, yeah, it was very visible. 21 Q. Now, I understand that you actually 22 brought a new brake pad and -- you didn't 23 have a lot around the shop, but you 0060 1 actually did have one used brake shoe; is 2 that right? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Why don't we start with the brake 5 shoe first. 6 A. This is the primary shoe. And 7 you've got a primary and a secondary shoe 8 on each car, each drum. And the 9 difference is that -- this is the long 10 shoe. The one that goes in the front 11 would be a short shoe. And you bring 12 those in here. And your emergency brake 13 adjuster goes up here. This is the 14 spring-hold here that holds it on the 15 car. There is a spring that goes in here 16 to the other shoe. And you flip it back 17 and put your adjuster in there. See, 18 that's where the adjuster goes, right 19 there. 20 Q. What part of that actually stops file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (34 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 21 the car? 22 A. This part right here. 23 Q. Now, that's a used one. Would it 0061 1 have looked that same thickness when it 2 was brand new? 3 A. No. This brake shoe here is about 4 wore out. See the rivets. It's probably 5 eighth of an inch thicker when it's new. 6 Q. And what is that actually pressing 7 up against to slow the car down or stop 8 the car? 9 A. When you put the brake on, it goes 10 agin the drum. The drum sets out here 11 like this, and this goes up agin the drum. 12 And the harder you push on your brake 13 pedal, the harder that pushes on the drum 14 to stop it. 15 Q. Good deal. We may come back to 16 that a little bit later, but I want to see 17 what else you've got in your box there. 18 You brought a brake pad as well; is that 19 right? 20 A. This is a brake pad. And the 21 pad -- what it does, you have a rotor that 22 goes in the center. This pad goes on the 23 top or the front or the back, depending on 0062 1 which car it goes on. And what it does is 2 you apply your brakes. And you've got one 3 of these on the front of the rotor, and 4 you've got one of these on the back of the 5 rotor. And what it does, it actually 6 squeezes together off the pressure. And 7 the brake -- the master cylinder, when 8 push your foot pedal down, squeezes this, 9 and it goes into the rotor on each side. 10 Where the shoe, you've got a front and 11 rear. This you've got a back and a front 12 because they fit together like this. 13 Q. I see. Now, the brake shoe that 14 was used, was that used in drum brakes? 15 Is that right? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (35 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 16 A. The shoe, yes. 17 Q. And what kind of brakes was that 18 used on? 19 A. That goes on one with the rotor on 20 it, disc brake. 21 Q. A disc brake? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And you were mentioning that they 0063 1 both pinched into the disc; is that 2 correct? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Is that a lot like the way, say, a 5 bicycle brake works? 6 A. Basically, the same thing. Like 7 where you squeeze your handle, it goes in 8 on it. 9 Q. I gotcha. We may come back to that 10 a little bit later, but I want to go over 11 some diagrams here in just a minute. 12 A. This shoe here -- this is new. See 13 how thick that is? 14 Q. Um-hum. 15 A. That wouldn't hardly be that thick, 16 but it would be almost that thick when it 17 was new. And this is riveted. See, it's 18 riveted on. 19 MR. DIMUZIO: Off the record. 20 21 (Whereupon, a brief discussion was 22 held off the record.) 23 0064 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 2 record. The time is 10:22 a.m. 3 4 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit Two 5 was marked for identification and 6 copy of same is attached hereto.) 7 8 Q. (BY MR. DIMUZIO:) Mr. Reese, we're 9 back after a short break. Just as sort of 10 a prelude here, I want to go through some file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (36 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 11 of the operations that you did at the 12 service station. And I've got some 13 pictures here that I'm hoping will be a 14 little bit helpful. I want to kind of 15 march through a few of them and then have 16 you just tell me what you did with all 17 these parts. First of all, we have on the 18 screen right there what's been marked as 19 Exhibit Number Two. Can you explain to 20 the jury what we're looking at right 21 there? 22 A. This is the drum, brake drum, and 23 that's the axle, and that's where you put 0065 1 your lug nuts on that holds the wheel onto 2 this part. And that's a balance right 3 there to balance the drum. 4 Q. Okay. And we may come back to some 5 of these pictures if you need them, but 6 let's just kind of -- go ahead. Do you 7 want to point something else out? 8 A. That's the one that you use the 9 hammer on. Right here is where that -- it 10 gets stuck at on the axle. And if you hit 11 this right out here with the hammer, 12 that'll make this pop off here, the lug 13 nuts. And right here on the axle on the 14 flange where that goes up on the axle, 15 that's where it always gets stuck right 16 there. And you hit it with the hammer. 17 And most of the time, if you hit it a few 18 times and turn it, it'll pop it off. 19 Q. Okay. I gotcha. And that was a 20 drum brake; right? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 23 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 0066 1 Three was marked for identification 2 and copy of same is attached 3 hereto.) 4 5 Q. And what do we have a picture of file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (37 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 6 right there? In fact, what do we have 7 there, sir? 8 A. Well, that is the vacuum plate, the 9 back part of -- that's what the shoes goes 10 onto. And there is the axle and the studs 11 that the wheel goes on and the flange 12 where the drum goes onto this part. 13 Q. Okay. Now, this is still the same 14 drum brake; right? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. And the drum has been removed; 17 right? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Now, where would the actual brake 20 pads that press up against the drum be in 21 this photograph? 22 A. This is your brake pad here. This 23 is your secondary, and that's your primary 0067 1 back here. 2 3 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 Four was marked for identification 5 and copy of same is attached 6 hereto.) 7 8 Q. Okay. I'm hoping that's showing up 9 on the video there. I'm not sure how well 10 that's coming across, but we've got some 11 other diagrams we can use a little bit 12 later. In fact, right now I want to put 13 on the screen this diagram that's been 14 marked Exhibit Number Four. Could you 15 tell the jury what this is? 16 A. That's the assembly, the brakes. 17 This up here is your wheel cylinder that 18 pushes the brakes out agin the drum. And 19 this is your emergency brake here that - 20 you push your emergency brake on and it 21 pushes against the drum. This is the 22 spring that goes into this self-adjuster 23 here. You've got two springs up here to 0068 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (38 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 1 pull the shoes back when they've been 2 out. You put the brake on, and the 3 springs make it return. And this yellow 4 here is your self-adjuster. When you back 5 up, this arm here adjusts that brake to 6 keep your brakes adjusted up so you'll 7 have a good brake pedal. And it just 8 stops it from -- the brake pedal from 9 rubbing again this drum. 10 Q. So just to be clear, when you put 11 your foot on the pedal, what happens to 12 that little piston there? 13 A. That piston has got fluid and a 14 line that comes from what's called the 15 master cylinder down to that. When you 16 put your brakes on, that pushes both these 17 shoes out against the drum. 18 Q. Okay. Fair enough. Now, to your 19 knowledge, what part of this assembly 20 contains asbestos? 21 A. The only part I can see would be 22 the lining that's on the shoe. 23 Q. I gotcha. Now, do you have one of 0069 1 those brake shoes? Is that what you 2 brought here with us earlier today? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. Could you -- let's see if we could 5 put that on the diagram. If you could 6 show me that and show me where that same 7 part would be on that diagram, that would 8 just be great. You can just hold it up 9 and - 10 A. This here? 11 Q. Right. 12 A. This is the lining right here. 13 This is the brake lining. This is called 14 the hardware for the brake where all your 15 springs and your adjusters go. And this 16 is the lining right here that's riveted on 17 there. 18 Q. And excuse me for being a little 19 slow on this, but could you point on that file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (39 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 20 diagram where exactly that brake shoe is? 21 A. It's right here and right there. 22 Q. So there are two of them on that 23 drum brake; right? 0070 1 A. Yeah. You have a front and a rear. 2 Q. Now, when you first started 3 practicing in the '60s, what kind of 4 brakes were the most common brakes on 5 cars? 6 A. About all drum brakes, all four 7 wheels. 8 Q. All four wheels had drum brakes? 9 A. Yeah. 10 11 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 12 Five was marked for identification 13 and copy of same is attached 14 hereto.) 15 16 Q. Fair enough, fair enough. You can 17 set that down for a minute. This may be a 18 little redundant here, but I want to show 19 you what's been marked as Exhibit Number 20 Five. And could you explain to the jury 21 what that is? 22 A. That's a brake shoe. This is the 23 lining on it. And this is the hardware 0071 1 that the lining is either bonded or 2 riveted to. 3 Q. And that looks like a brand new 4 version of what you were just holding in 5 your hand; is that correct? 6 A. That's correct. 7 8 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit Six 9 was marked for identification and 10 copy of same is attached hereto.) 11 12 Q. And let me show what has been 13 marked Exhibit Number Six. What is that? 14 A. I can't see it that well. Let me file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (40 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 15 see it up here for a minute. That's a 16 drum. 17 Q. That's a brake drum? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. And I know they call them drum 20 brakes, but why do they call them that? 21 How does that drum help stop the car? 22 A. Well, the shoe comes out and rubs 23 again the outside, pushing that wheel 0072 1 cylinder. When you apply your foot brake, 2 it makes the shoe go out and rub agin the 3 drum to stop it. 4 Q. Fair enough. Now, that's all the 5 slides that I've got on a drum brake. So 6 I want to talk about that now. If you 7 feel like any of these will be extremely 8 helpful, let me know. For right now, I'm 9 going to put back up on the screen Exhibit 10 Number Four. Could you just -- I know 11 there is probably a lot to it, but could 12 you just basically give me a little lesson 13 on how is it that you change a brake 14 drum? What do you do? 15 A. You mean from taking it off -- from 16 the time you start? 17 Q. Right. They bring it into your 18 shop and they need new drum brakes. What 19 do you do? 20 A. Well, the first thing you do is you 21 take the wheel off the car, and then you 22 take the drum off to where you can see all 23 these inner parts in there. 0073 1 Q. How do you take the drum off? 2 A. Well, you use that hammer that I 3 showed you before or this slap hammer, one 4 of the two. 5 Q. Now, when you do that on those 6 brake drums, does that affect the air 7 around you in any way? 8 A. Yeah, it'd be -- when you hit it, 9 rust and dust and everything flies out of file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (41 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 10 there when you're hitting it. 11 Q. Okay. What is that dust from 12 that's inside the drum? 13 A. That's inside the drum, that's from 14 where the shoe wore out, the pad. 15 Q. Do you think there would be any 16 like just road mud and that sort of thing 17 inside there? 18 A. No, there shouldn't be, because it 19 wouldn't work on stopping if it got full 20 of mud. You only have one little hole 21 right here in the back of this adjuster. 22 And it's got a rubber plug in the back of 23 it normally that -- unless somebody left 0074 1 it out -- would keep the water and the mud 2 from getting in there. 3 Q. All right. So you've pulled the 4 drum off. What's the next stage? 5 A. Well, you either show the customer 6 or they've told you already they want the 7 job done. Then you just break this - 8 well, the first thing you do is blow it 9 off good. 10 Q. Well, do you just blow it off with 11 your mouth? 12 A. No. You use the air hose on it. 13 Q. You're talking about a compressed 14 air hose? 15 A. Compressed air hose. Blow it all 16 off and clean it off, and then you can see 17 where your holes are at. And then you pop 18 them two springs on top first. Then you 19 take this one out here and this one out 20 here. And the others will fold together, 21 and then you can do them on the ground. 22 It's hard to get them apart and them on 23 there. You have to put the bottom part 0075 1 together to put it back on. And you take 2 these off first, and you bend it together 3 to get them off. 4 Q. Now, when you said you had to clean file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (42 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 5 them off first with this compressed air 6 hose, what were you talking about "it"? 7 What are you cleaning out of there? 8 A. The dust from where the brake shoe 9 wore out. 10 Q. Now, when you would hit that with 11 that compressed air, would that affect the 12 air around you in any way? 13 A. Oh, yeah, it goes everywhere. 14 Q. Are you talking about a little bit 15 of dust, a lot of dust? Could you just 16 describe for the jury what that would look 17 like when you did something like that. 18 A. Well, you blow the wheel off, the 19 brake shoe off. And you get you a red rag 20 or a handkerchief to put over your mouth 21 while you're blowing it, and run outside 22 as soon as you're done to get air. 23 Q. You could see this dust? 0076 1 A. Oh, yeah. 2 Q. Now you've cleaned off the - 3 you've pulled off the drum, you've cleaned 4 out the insides of that. And I know 5 you've explained it, and I'm sure a 6 mechanic would understand it, but I didn't 7 quite understand exactly what happened. 8 So we've taken the drum off. You've 9 cleaned it out with a compressed air 10 hose. What's the next step? Would you 11 remove those old ones? 12 A. You would take these off 13 (indicating), these shoes off. Then 14 you've got to clean all these parts that's 15 in there to make them work good when you 16 put them back together. This here gets 17 grease put in this. This comes apart 18 right here, this adjuster. And then these 19 here, you would normally take them to a 20 grinding wheel that's got a wire brush on 21 it. You know, a table with a wire brush 22 on it. And you clean these up so they 23 slide good right here at this part. If file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (43 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 0077 1 that don't slide, the brakes will stick 2 and wear them out. Then this right here, 3 you have to clean it with a wire brush 4 also so it can slide. That's a moving 5 part. That's a moving part, that's a 6 moving part and that's a moving part and 7 that's a moving part, and this down here's 8 moving part. So a lot of them, you should 9 clean them. And we usually do it with a 10 wire brush and a bench grinder. Just take 11 and hit them on that and that will clean 12 your tool. Clean that up. And you can 13 put just a drop of grease on each one of 14 them when we put it back together so that 15 it works good. 16 Q. You mentioned something about a 17 table grinder and a wire brush. First of 18 all, so I can be clear, are we talking 19 about some kind of hand-held wire brush 20 that you would clean the stuff with? 21 A. No, not normally. On that, you've 22 got a bench grinder. You've got a 23 grinding wheel on one end. You always 0078 1 have a wire brush on the other end of that 2 grinder. And it's got, you know, probably 3 a five-inch wire brush, and that's what 4 you clean them parts with. 5 Q. Now, when you would do that, clean 6 those things with that power wire brush, 7 would that affect the air around you in 8 any way? 9 A. It'd get some dust, but most of the 10 time you'll have about all of that blowed 11 off with the air hose that you were 12 blowing with and have it pretty well 13 cleaned up at that point. 14 Q. Now, were you doing all this 15 work -- by the way, was this inside or 16 outside the station when you were doing 17 most of this work? 18 A. No, it's inside. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (44 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 19 Q. All right. Fair enough. So we're 20 to the point where you've taken those pads 21 off and you've cleaned those parts. So 22 far we've taken off the brake drum, we've 23 cleaned it out. You've cleaned the parts, 0079 1 and you've taken out the old brake shoes. 2 What do you do next? 3 A. Well, they pound your drum on the 4 floor and blow it out, clean it. Then if 5 you turn it, then you've got to take it 6 and put it on the lathe and true it up to 7 where -- you know, if this part -- this 8 has got rivets. If them wears all the way 9 down, them rivets will make lines in this 10 drum. Then you put that drum on a lathe, 11 a drum lathe. And then you take the 12 pieces out, you know, by cutting it. You 13 put it on there and just let it cut out 14 like ten thousand at a time. This is 15 turning. The tool is not turning. This 16 is solid here. And as that drum turns - 17 you fold it up through the center. And as 18 that drum turns, you can go in there and 19 you cut out ever how much you need to 20 clean it up. And then you do what's 21 called a finish cut on it. But there is 22 specs on that drum too. If it goes beyond 23 certain specs, you've got to throw it away 0080 1 and get a new one. It's got it wrote 2 right on the drum. All drums have it 3 wrote on there about what the specs are 4 and how big you're allowed to turn it out 5 to. 6 Q. Let's kind of break this down 7 because I've never really done this work. 8 I'll be honest with you. The first thing 9 you do with the drum is you say you put 10 the drum on the floor; is that right? 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. And then you said you cleaned it 13 out. How did you clean that drum out? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (45 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 14 A. Well, you just take your air hose 15 and blow it out. 16 Q. Would that affect the air around 17 you in any way? 18 A. Yeah. You've got -- that dust goes 19 everywhere when you do that. 20 Q. Do you think you were breathing 21 that dust? 22 A. I know that I was. 23 Q. Why do you know that? 0081 1 A. Well, because you can blow your 2 nose on a white handkerchief, and you've 3 got a handkerchief full of black stuff on 4 your handkerchief when you do. 5 Q. Fair enough. Now, sometimes is 6 just blowing out good enough or -- you 7 mentioned sometimes you have to use some 8 other kind of tool; right? 9 A. Well, if you turn it -- you have to 10 blow it out before you can turn it. 11 You've got to see what you're doing. You 12 have to do that. And then -- now we wash 13 that. We wash all that. You know, today 14 we've got a solvent that goes under that 15 that we do that with. Since we found out 16 about asbestos, we've got a tank that we 17 wash them in today, but we didn't always 18 have that. 19 Q. You mentioned doing some sort of a 20 tool and turning it. What tool do you 21 use, and exactly how do you do that 22 turning? 23 A. Okay. This drum, this part here, 0082 1 all this is gone. It's just a drum. You 2 take the drum and put it on your lathe. 3 And it bolts up through the center. 4 You've got flanges, aluminum, that goes 5 against each side of that and rubber -- a 6 nut that's about this long that's got 7 rubber in the center of it to keep the 8 chatter out of it. You tighten that up file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (46 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 9 against that. And then you got a band 10 that goes around there, a rubber band 11 about a half inch wide that's got lead 12 every inch on that band. And it seals it, 13 and that keeps the chatter out of it. 14 Otherwise, it'll bounce when you turn it. 15 And the tool is on the lathe. It's 16 actually sitting on its side like this. 17 And then when it comes in to get the 18 tool -- you start at the inside. And when 19 it touches, you know that's that. And 20 then you've got a dial on your lathe. 21 Each little notch is graduated to two: 22 two thousand, four thousand, six 23 thousand. And you take out like six or 0083 1 eight thousand, and you turn the machine 2 on and it automatically feeds that out to 3 turn it. And then when you get done, then 4 you take like a two-thousand cut, 5 different speed -- you've got different 6 speeds on the machine that's called a 7 finish cut. That's what you do on the 8 last cut is you take your finish cut, and 9 then you take it back and you put it on 10 the car. 11 Q. Now, when you do this, is the 12 purpose to clean it and make it the right 13 smoothness and consistency of the drum? 14 Is that what - 15 A. Yes. That could be -- the drum can 16 be from heat, it could be warped. Or most 17 of the time what happens is these shoes 18 where they're riveted on, the shoe wears 19 out, and then the rivet hits that drum and 20 makes grooves in it. And so that's what 21 you have to turn out is where the rivet 22 hits the drum and makes the grooves. 23 Otherwise, you put your new shoe on, it 0084 1 won't adjust right. It won't brake right, 2 because it's got to seat itself down in 3 them holes where it was wore. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (47 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 4 Q. What's the name of the product of 5 the lathe that you have? Do you know what 6 the brand name is? 7 A. Yeah, I've got an Ammco. 8 Q. You've got an Ammco. When did you 9 buy that? 10 A. I think around '70. 11 Q. And did you just go into a store 12 and buy this and take it back to the shop 13 and start working with it? 14 A. No. This is a heavy piece of 15 equipment. And you go and buy it, and 16 then the people that -- the rep from 17 Ammco, they bring it out in a van, 18 normally, and set it up for you and teach 19 you how to use it, if you don't know. 20 They show you the right way to use it so 21 you don't get hurt with it, because you 22 could get hurt with that. 23 Q. Anywhere on that machine, did you 0085 1 ever notice if there were any kind of 2 warnings about asbestos exposure from 3 using that product? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. Anybody from Ammco -- when they 6 gave you the training, did they ever talk 7 to you about asbestos hazards when you 8 were doing auto mechanic work? 9 A. No. 10 Q. So we've pulled the drum off, we've 11 blown it out, we've cleaned off the parts, 12 we've removed the old brake pads that need 13 to be replaced, and if we needed to, we've 14 put the brake drum on the lathe and got 15 that in good shape. Now what do we do? 16 A. Well, you always try to sell 17 turning the drum, regardless, because it 18 can -- makes your brake job so much 19 better, unless somebody has got an old car 20 or something and they don't want to put a 21 lot of money into, and then you explain 22 that to them. And then you just put it file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (48 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 23 all back together and adjust it up. And 0086 1 we have a mike that we'd adjust from here 2 to here that goes in and out. And the 3 outside, you put in the drum and it comes 4 out. And then you take that and put it on 5 the shoe and adjust the shoe then. The 6 inside OD versus the outside OD, where the 7 mike is made, it's like a gauge. And then 8 you adjust that up and then put your drum 9 on it put your wheel back on it, and 10 that's about all there are to that part of 11 it. 12 Q. Now, did you just take these brake 13 shoes out of a box and just plop them on 14 the brake assembly, or did you have to 15 prepare them in any way? 16 A. Well, it depends on if -- when you 17 mike it up here -- see, if your shoe is 18 not on perfect, this part up here at the 19 top and down here at the top, we would 20 take sandpaper and sand that so that the 21 drum would slide over it. If the drum 22 won't slide over it and you loosen the 23 shoe back down, in just a little while, as 0087 1 soon as that seeps off, that'll wear off 2 if you don't sand it down a little bit on 3 the top of them corners, then you lose 4 your pedal. You know, your brake pedal 5 will go down, and the people will bring it 6 back and tell you that it's not right, 7 which it's not. And then you've got to 8 take it and then redo the job by adjusting 9 it. Don't have to disassemble it and 10 everything, but then you've got to get 11 back in there and adjust the brakes to 12 where they've got good pedal. Then you've 13 got to get them all even again. 14 Q. And what were you using to prepare 15 the surface so that it would fit correctly 16 in there? 17 A. Well, on this here, after you got file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (49 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 18 everything ready, you just use rough 19 sandpaper. Take and fold it like a sheet 20 of sandpaper. And what you would do with 21 it is you fold it so that the rough is on 22 the outside. Then you take that shoe and 23 you just rub that shoe, you know, knock 0088 1 the rough off the four corners. And 2 that's all you have to do to get the drum 3 back on. 4 Q. Did that produce dust when you did 5 that? 6 A. Yes, some, just from sanding it. 7 Q. Did you do anything else to prepare 8 the surface of the brake shoes so that it 9 would do a good job for the customer? 10 A. The only thing we ever did was cut 11 grooves in them if they squeaked. And you 12 usually knew what car squeaked and what 13 car didn't. So they were known for what 14 they do. But a lot of times you would 15 just groove your brake shoes back then to 16 let the dust get out and go to the 17 bottom. See, there is a lot of room down 18 here. And that dust, if it can get to the 19 bottom, it normally runs off and it don't 20 get in there and start to squeaking. 21 Q. Let me hand you your -- that brake 22 shoe. And that is a brake shoe; right? 23 A. Yes, sir. 0089 1 Q. And could you just turn that so 2 that it's facing the camera there so the 3 jury can see it? Can you show the jury 4 about where you would cut these grooves in 5 the brake shoe? 6 A. Well, in this shoe here you would 7 cut -- it would go on the car this way. 8 Okay? But you would cut the groove 9 downward. See, this is the top part of 10 the shoe. You would cut the groove down 11 this way, and then you would come down 12 here and cut another groove. You'd file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (50 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 13 normally only put two in it, because 14 you've got to be careful. You can damage 15 the lining, you know, where the brake - 16 there's two linings in it. And as that 17 dust goes down, goes down the road, you 18 know, hitting bumps, it can get in that 19 lining and go off down here to the bottom 20 and catches down here on this, on that, 21 and keeps it from squeaking, because the 22 dust is what's making it squeak most of 23 the time. 0090 1 Q. And what tool did you use -- or 2 tools did you use to grind those grooves 3 into the brake pads? 4 A. You've got an air grinder that 5 hooks onto your air hose, and we've got a 6 wheel that goes on that. And you just put 7 this in a vise. This ain't on the car 8 when you're doing it. You put this in the 9 vise and you just grind it down through 10 there free hand. 11 Q. And is there air coming out of 12 that -- the bit that you're using to grind 13 on the surface? 14 A. Coming out of the tool. It's an 15 air tool, yeah. The air comes out all the 16 way around it. It's -- push a button and 17 the air is what turns the wheel. And as 18 you grind this out, the air comes out of 19 that tool. It's only about -- well, you 20 get all different sizes. The one we use 21 is about five inches long or six. And you 22 can use different -- it's about like a 23 drill. You can use different kinds of 0091 1 tools in it. But we usually just use the 2 one cutter that we use to go down, which 3 is sandpaper, to cut that groove in there 4 with to get your squeak out. 5 Q. And about how deep would you go 6 when you cut those grooves? 7 A. Well, you never go beyond the depth file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (51 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 8 of the -- where the lining is on. You 9 check that and see how deep the lining is 10 to that rivet. And then when you cut this 11 groove in, you don't want to go no deeper 12 than that because if you do, you'll weaken 13 the lining and it could get hot and pop 14 apart. 15 Q. Now, you've got a brake shoe in 16 your hand. And I believe you testified 17 earlier there would be two per brake drum; 18 is that correct? 19 A. Usually you only want two in it. 20 That's enough. 21 Q. And in the early days, most of the 22 cars -- all four of the wheels had brake 23 drums; is that correct? 0092 1 A. When? 2 Q. In the early days, the '60s and the 3 '70s. 4 A. Yeah. They all had drum brakes on 5 all four wheels. 6 Q. Okay. Good. How often would you 7 have to change -- how often on a car would 8 you have to change the brakes back in the 9 '60s and '70s? 10 A. It was good for -- if you had good 11 luck out of them, the lining -- it would 12 last about twelve thousand miles with 13 normal driving, you know, like city and 14 road both. You could drive all city, you 15 might not get twelve thousand. If you 16 drive all road, you'd get more. But an 17 average was twelve to fifteen thousand 18 miles on a set of brakes. 19 Q. And would you have repeat 20 customers, by the way? 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q. And what percentage of your 23 business do you think was repeat 0093 1 customers? 2 A. Probably ninety percent of it. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (52 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 3 Q. Would you typically do all the work 4 on an individual's car whenever they 5 needed help? 6 A. You mean the brake job or - 7 Q. All the work on a car. 8 A. Whatever they needed? 9 Q. Right. 10 A. Once it gets out of warranty, yes. 11 Q. I got you. Good. Fair enough. 12 Was changing brake drums like that -- was 13 that something that happened like once a 14 year or once a month, or was that a 15 frequent occurrence at the shop? 16 A. Oh, we did it like on a daily 17 basis, but not to the same car. You know, 18 different cars. 19 Q. Okay. I want to talk a little bit 20 about a different kind of brake. You 21 mentioned disc brakes before; right? 22 A. Yes, later. Just about all the 23 cars now have disc brakes in the front. 0094 1 Q. In fact, that's a good question. 2 When did disc brakes first start 3 occurring? 4 A. They probably come out in the mid 5 '80s, maybe '90, where about all the cars 6 had them on the front. 7 Q. And I take it from your answer that 8 in at least the early days, you'd have 9 like disc brakes in the front and drum 10 brakes on the rear; correct? 11 A. In the early days - 12 Q. Disc brakes - 13 A. -- of them coming out? 14 Q. Yeah. 15 A. Yeah, you'd have drum rear and disc 16 front, yes, sir. 17 Q. And nowadays, are some of the cars 18 all disc brakes? 19 A. Yeah, some of them are all four 20 wheel disc now. 21 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (53 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 22 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 23 Seven was marked for identification 0095 1 and copy of same is attached 2 hereto.) 3 4 Q. Let me show you what has been 5 marked Exhibit Number Seven. And what do 6 we have up there, sir? 7 A. That's a vacuum plate, that's the 8 rotor, and that's your caliper that your 9 disc pads go in. That's what stops the 10 car when you put the pads in there. 11 Q. And I'm going to hand you the brake 12 pad that you were doing before. Where 13 would that piece of equipment -- where 14 would that be in that diagram? 15 A. This would be the inner shoe here. 16 See the way it's cut there? That would be 17 the inner shoe, only it would be sitting 18 this way turned up. It would be one 19 inside and one outside. 20 Q. Can you just do that a little bit 21 further to the center here so we could get 22 that on the screen okay? So that's the 23 part we're talking about; right? 0096 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And how would it actually be 3 sitting in there? 4 A. Well, your wheel is set up and 5 down. 6 Q. Fair enough. And this is -- just 7 to be clear, we're not talking drum brakes 8 now. What kind of brake assembly is this? 9 A. That's a disc brake. 10 Q. Disc brake assembly? 11 A. And you've got one in the back and 12 you've got one in the front. 13 Q. In fact, we have a little diagram 14 here that may be a little easier to see, I 15 hope . First of all, is this a disc brake? 16 A. Yes, it is. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (54 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 17 Q. Can you just sort of explain to the 18 jury, you know, how this disc brake works 19 and how it stops the car? 20 A. Well, this is your rotor, and this 21 is your caliper, the green part here, the 22 caliper. And then when you put your foot 23 on the pedal, brake fluid comes in here 0097 1 and it squeezes again this rotor, and 2 that's the way it stops it. And there's 3 your pads. The blue that you've got here 4 is your pad. 5 Q. And what part in that diagram, to 6 your understanding, contains asbestos? 7 A. From what I understand now, it 8 would be the pad itself, the lining on it. 9 Q. And just so I'm clear, this what 10 you're pointing to here as these blue 11 parts, is that the part that you brought 12 with you today? Is that what that is? 13 A. Yes, that would be that. It's not 14 the exact kind of that. This is different 15 than that one, but it's the same thing. 16 That's a round one, and this here's a 17 longer one. 18 19 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 20 Nine was marked for identification 21 and copy of same is attached 22 hereto.) 23 0098 1 Q. Okay. And we may need to come back 2 to some of these diagrams a little bit 3 later, but I want to just pop a few more 4 of these up. This has been marked as 5 Exhibit Number Nine. And can you explain 6 to the jury what that is, what we have a 7 picture of right there? 8 A. That's your caliper. That's where 9 the pads go, and that's where this goes. 10 See, this would go in there like this 11 (indicating). This cut-out part always file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (55 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 12 goes towards the center. That would go 13 inside. And that's it right there. 14 That's your pad -- shoe. Well, it's not a 15 shoe. It's a pad. And then this is your 16 rotor. And them holes that are in here is 17 to cool that so that it don't get too 18 hot. And then each one of them holes in 19 there are for cooling. And this is your 20 wheel bearing here inside that. It's 21 showing the wheel bearing is still in the 22 car. That's the nuts. And this comes 23 off, that part there. 0099 1 2 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit 3 Eleven was marked for 4 identification and copy of same is 5 attached hereto.) 6 7 Q. Okay. Good. I think this is very 8 similar to what you actually brought 9 today. This has been marked Plaintiffs 10 Exhibit Number Eleven. And just to make 11 sure we're clear here, what is that a 12 picture of, Mr. Reese? 13 A. That is the pad. That's the same 14 as this here. The holes that you see in 15 here are where the pad is riveted onto the 16 metal. And this up here is -- when the 17 pad wears out down to where these 18 rivets -- they'll hit your rotor. That's 19 supposed to hit where it wears out this 20 wheel so that you'll know that they're 21 wore out. 22 Q. And just to be clear, this sort of 23 gray color, that's what actually presses 0100 1 up against the rotor; is that correct? 2 A. Yeah, this part here is what rubs 3 agin the rotor. 4 Q. And that's what stops the car? 5 A. Yes, sir. This is just hardware 6 here. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (56 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 7 Q. What would you -- would you have 8 cut these like you did the brake shoes 9 that we were discussing earlier and brake 10 drums? 11 A. Well, you can, but you don't do it 12 as much as you did the drum brakes. I 13 have done it. And you just put normally 14 one V in that, because this is sitting out 15 to where it can get air on it and it 16 cleans itself a lot. But if you run into 17 a squealing problem with the dust, you 18 would only put one line in this brake on 19 that shoe -- pad. 20 Q. Now, are you doing all right? 21 A. Yeah, I'm fine. 22 Q. I want to have you do sort of 23 exactly what we did with drum brakes. I 0101 1 want you to explain to me how you would 2 change a disc brake if a customer came in 3 and was having a problem. 4 A. Well, with a disc brake, as soon as 5 you take the wheel off you can see whether 6 it's wore out or not because you can look 7 at the top of it. It's got a hole that 8 you can look in and see this where it's 9 wore out. And then that determines that 10 he needs new pads. Okay. It's got a bolt 11 that goes in here, one on this end and one 12 on this end. You take them out. And then 13 you take that hammer like I had there and 14 you just pound that and it'll loosen up, 15 and you pop the caliper off. 16 Q. Now, what are you actually hitting 17 with the hammer? 18 A. The caliper. The shoes are on the 19 inside. You can't hit them. You hit the 20 caliper. 21 Q. And the calipers are attached to 22 those brake pads? 23 A. Yeah, that's what holds them in 0102 1 there. And then you just pound it, and file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (57 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 2 it'll come off and you've got in your 3 hand. It's still got your line hooked to 4 it. And then you take the pads out, and 5 you blow the caliper off. And then you've 6 got a C-clamp made especially that you 7 push on that to put -- make the caliper go 8 back in, because with new pads that stays 9 out, and it will not let you put -- when 10 you get your new parts on there, it won't 11 go back over the rotor. So you've got to 12 use a C-clamp to push it back to let the 13 fluid go back so you can run it back in 14 the caliper. 15 Q. First of all, what are you cleaning 16 that brake assembly area with? Was it the 17 compressed air that you were talking 18 about? 19 A. That's when you start, yes. 20 Q. And when you hit the caliper with a 21 hammer, did that affect the air around you 22 in any way? 23 A. Well, yeah, you've got dust, but 0103 1 not as much as the drum. But you've got 2 dust going the same way where this is 3 laying down in there. 4 Q. Could you actually see the dust 5 when you pound it - 6 A. Oh, yeah, it's enough to where you 7 can see it. 8 Q. Okay. I think we've gotten to the 9 point where we've taken the wheel off, and 10 you've decided you need to replace the 11 brake pad and you've taken it off. What's 12 the next step? 13 A. Well, you just blow it off good 14 after you get done. The way we do it now 15 is wash it with a solvent that's made for 16 brakes and just put it back together. 17 You've got to put grease on all these 18 moving parts so that they -- you know, 19 lithium grease. It's a white grease. You 20 put it on here so that they slide good on file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (58 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 21 where they go on there and don't get 22 stuck. 23 Q. When did you first start using this 0104 1 solvent that you were talking about? 2 A. Probably -- well, I know in the 3 90's. 4 Q. And what company did you buy that 5 equipment and solvent products from? 6 A. It's called Safety-Kleen. 7 Q. And would they provide you with 8 advice on how to comply with, you know, 9 what the regulations were in terms of 10 doing this kind of work? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And you bought this in order to 13 comply with what you understood the 14 regulations were for doing that sort of 15 work? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. What did you do before you started 18 using that solvent in the '90s? How did 19 you clean them? 20 A. We'd just blow it off with the air 21 hose and then take a -- like a wire brush 22 and hand wire brush it or take it and put 23 it back in that grinder. It depends on 0105 1 what -- if you can get to it. Take the 2 wire brush and just grind all the parts 3 off, because where that slide has to be - 4 take the old shoe off where it sticks to 5 that. And rust and everything is in 6 there, you know. Then you can grind that 7 off so that your new shoe fits good. 8 Q. Now, how would you actually grind 9 the shoe so that it would fit well? What 10 tools were you using? 11 A. On disc brakes? 12 Q. Right, on disc brakes. 13 A. You normally don't have -- you mean 14 to sand them to get them on? 15 Q. Correct. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (59 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 16 A. You've just got to push it back. 17 You very seldom ever have to sand these 18 shoes. 19 Q. What about cutting the grooves in 20 them that you described before? What 21 tools would you use to cut the tools in 22 those? 23 A. Just the same air grinder with the 0106 1 wheel on it. We call it a buzz wheel. I 2 don't know if that's the right name or 3 not. 4 Q. Use the same basic process that you 5 do on brake shoes; is that right? 6 A. Oh, yes, same thing. 7 Q. When you did that, would that 8 produce dust? 9 A. Sure. 10 Q. Could you see that dust in the air 11 when you did that? 12 A. This has got as much dust on it as 13 the shoe does as far as when you grind the 14 groove in it. But you don't have to do 15 that as much as you did when they had all 16 the old shoes on there. 17 Q. Are some of the newer brakes that 18 are coming out in recent years -- do they 19 actually have these grooves precut in 20 them? 21 A. They do. 22 Q. And why do they do that, to your 23 knowledge? 0107 1 A. To get rid of the dust and the 2 squeak. 3 Q. And I think you got into this 4 before, but who actually taught you how to 5 do this sort of cutting the groove into 6 the brake pads? Who taught you how to do 7 that? 8 A. The first guy -- you know, the guy 9 that showed me was Ed Tyson because he 10 done it on big trucks back when he was a file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (60 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 11 truck mechanic. So people would come back 12 in with their brakes squeaking, and then 13 he knew how to do that to take the squeak 14 out. So we just started doing it to all 15 of them to take the squeak out before they 16 left and wouldn't even have to do it 17 twice. 18 Q. Just a way to keep the customer 19 happy? 20 A. Yes. Now, this shoe you see here 21 is the new one. That's got holes in it. 22 You can see all the way through that. 23 That lets the dust out. See, that's got 0108 1 holes in it. This shoe here, that don't 2 have no holes in it. The rivet that's in 3 that is out here turned, and it's back 4 from this side over here. This rivet here 5 is made to show the dust. So you can see 6 plumb through that brake shoe. And 7 they've started doing that now, and we 8 don't have the problem we did back years 9 ago. 10 Q. And again, when did you start 11 seeing these disc-type brakes showing up 12 in the more popular cars in the United 13 States? When did you start seeing them in 14 the front? 15 A. Well, they've been around for a 16 while, but the most popular one probably 17 was around the '90's. '80's to '90's, 18 they started coming out with a lot of 19 them. 20 Q. And when did you start seeing a 21 trend toward phasing out the using all 22 disc brakes and no drum brakes? 23 A. Oh, they still use drum brakes on 0109 1 probably -- I'm going to say eighty 2 percent of the cars still have got drum 3 brakes on the rear. You've got to get 4 into a sports car or expensive car, 5 normally, to get four-wheel discs. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (61 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 6 Q. Now, I don't have any diagrams of a 7 clutch or any pictures of them, but can 8 you just describe for me what does a 9 clutch do on a car? 10 A. The clutch is what -- it's a 11 round -- and it can come nine-inch, 12 ten-inch, eleven-inch, twelve-inch, 13 depending on -- normally, if it's got a 14 V-8 in it, four-cylinder in it or whatever 15 determines the size of the clutch. The 16 clutch is bolted onto the fly wheel with a 17 pressure plate. And the pressure plate 18 goes with the clutch, and it goes on the 19 front of the transmission. The 20 transmission has a spline that has teeth 21 on it that that clutch goes in. Okay. 22 You've got what's called a throw-out 23 bearing. The throw-out bearing, when you 0110 1 push your clutch in, takes the clutch from 2 the pressure plate and gives you air space 3 in between the two and stops the car from 4 rolling. And when you take off, you let 5 out on your clutch. You let out on that, 6 and it goes into it slow. And then it 7 starts rubbing on that fly wheel and on 8 that pressure plate, and that's when you 9 get your friction to get your car to move. 10 Q. Is there something on a clutch 11 that's similar to the brake pad that you 12 had? 13 A. I think they're the same thing. 14 Most of them. 15 Q. And just kind of quickly, if you 16 could just sort of give me sort of a 17 sixty-second overview of how -- what did 18 you actually do to change the clutch in a 19 car? 20 A. Well, today you've got to take 21 the -- well, you've got to take the 22 transmission out, first thing. And then 23 you take the bell housing off. The clutch 0111 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (62 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 1 is in this bell housing. And then when 2 you take the bell housing off, you've got 3 one, two, three, four -- you've got six 4 bolts that holds the pressure plate to the 5 fly wheel. 6 Q. Okay. Did you have to clean the 7 bell housing out at all? 8 A. Yeah. It's full of the stuffjust 9 like a brake drum, the bell housing is. 10 Q. And what did you clean that out 11 with? 12 A. I usually just take the air hose 13 and blow it out. 14 Q. All right. So after you've taken 15 the bell housing out and you've cleaned it 16 out, what would be the next step? 17 A. Reassemble it. Put your clutch and 18 pressure plate on. We use what's called a 19 spline. That spline goes in the back of 20 the crankshaft. And we'd have them for 21 all different cars. And we line it up and 22 then tighten it up in there. And then 23 when you put your transmission up there, 0112 1 that spline in the transmission will go in 2 that clutch. If you don't have it lined 3 up, you can't get the transmission back in 4 the car. 5 Q. Did you typically have to alter or 6 prepare the surface of the clutch before 7 you installed it? 8 A. Not really. 9 Q. Not typically? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And where would you be in relation 12 to the car when you were actually doing 13 this work? Were you on the top of the 14 car, on the side, underneath it or some 15 combination? 16 A. No. You always put the clutch in 17 from the bottom, unless you're working on 18 a VW. And you can take the motor out and 19 do it. But all cars, you have to take the file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (63 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 20 transmission out. It's on the bottom. 21 Q. So would the car would be lifted up 22 in the air and you'd be underneath it 23 doing this work? 0113 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Would you be wearing any type of 3 protective equipment at all? 4 A. Nothing but safety glasses, you 5 know, to keep the dust from falling out 6 and getting in your eyes. I mean, no 7 uniform or nothing like that. Just use 8 your regular clothes. The only safety you 9 use is to keep the dust from getting in 10 your eyes is all. 11 Q. Now, when you would use this 12 compressed air and clear out the bell 13 housing in that area, would that affect 14 the air around you in any way? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. How would it do that? 17 A. It just blows it everywhere. 18 Q. Was that something you could see? 19 A. Yeah, you could see it. 20 Q. Do you think you breathed that 21 dust? 22 A. I know I did. 23 Q. Fair enough. Let's talk about some 0114 1 different kinds of parts here for a 2 minute. Can you just -- thirty-second 3 overview, what's a muffler on a car? 4 A. A muffler is on a car to keep the 5 noise down from the engine, combustion 6 engine. 7 Q. And is -- I see tailpipes in the 8 back of cars. Is a muffler attached to 9 that tailpipe? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And did you guys ever do any work 12 on those mufflers? 13 A. We did a lot of muffler work. 14 Q. Why would you have to replace a file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (64 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 15 muffler? 16 A. Well, you burn a hole in it and get 17 loud and people didn't want to get a 18 ticket, so they'd come in and get a new 19 muffler. 20 Q. And why would they -- why would a 21 hole develop in a muffler? Was it just 22 they hit something on the road? 23 A. No. It burns out from the heat 0115 1 from the engine over a period of time. 2 Gets moisture in it and rusts up inside. 3 And then you start it back up and it's got 4 like condensation in the muffler, and then 5 it gets hot. It just burns holes in them. 6 Q. Again, I know there is probably a 7 lot to it and it probably takes a lot 8 time, but I don't want you to take a long 9 time here. Just give me kind of a brief 10 overview of how you would change a muffler 11 if their muffler had a hole in it or if it 12 was breaking. 13 A. Well, if you sell them the whole 14 exhaust system, then you take it, cut it 15 off. But if they just want a muffler and 16 you've got to save the parts, you've got 17 to cut the muffler off the front pipe and 18 off the tailpipe to save that. Normally, 19 that front pipe will last for two 20 mufflers. And then the back one, 21 sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. 22 But if it don't, you've got to take it 23 apart. You've got the front of the 0116 1 muffler and the back of the muffler. 2 You've got a front pipe and a tailpipe. 3 And you usually take the air chisel and go 4 down -- the muffler is on the outside of 5 the pipe. You go down the pipe -- muffler 6 and cut it, then you can peel it off. 7 Peel off the pipe. 8 Q. So you're actually cutting through 9 the bigger muffler down to the exhaust file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (65 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 10 pipe inside - 11 A. Not cutting through the muffler. 12 You're cutting the front pipe where it 13 bolts on, where it goes on. Then there is 14 a U-clamp that goes on that with two bolts 15 on it that tightens the muffler and the 16 pipe together. When you get it all put 17 together, it's got two clamps on it, one 18 in the front and one in the rear that 19 holds it. Holds your front pipe in and 20 holds your tailpipe in. 21 Q. Was it pretty easy to get these 22 mufflers off once they've been on a car, 23 say, for twelve thousand miles or so? 0117 1 A. Well, we can get them off pretty 2 easy if you want to lay the chisel to it 3 and get it off. You know, take -- or fast 4 to get it off, if you don't care to get 5 dirty. 6 Q. In your prior deposition, you 7 mentioned something about just actually 8 breaking mufflers periodically to get them 9 off. Do you recall that testimony? 10 A. We've got a stand that we put under 11 them when we try to save the pipes. You 12 know, you don't want to take them all the 13 way off the car, you want to slip the 14 muffler out without taking the pipes off 15 the car, you take the back part off first 16 and then you take the front part off, then 17 you can get them out. Or you can just 18 pull the muffler down and it'll bend, 19 because it's usually got a hole in it, and 20 it bends down to where you can save the 21 pipe. 22 Q. Now, when you did that work, when 23 you were removing these mufflers from the 0118 1 cars, generally, was that a dusty process? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you think you breathed that 4 dust? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (66 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 5 A. I know I did. 6 Q. Could you see the dust? 7 A. Sure. 8 Q. What about when you actually broke 9 these mufflers in half? Was that a dusty 10 process? 11 A. Well, I think it was everywhere 12 then. 13 Q. You saw that dust? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you think you breathed that 16 dust? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Fair enough. Now, you had quite a 19 bit of testimony about drum brakes and 20 disc brakes and the lathe that you and 21 clutches and mufflers and even gaskets, 22 for that matter, in your prior four days 23 of deposition testimony. Do you recall 0119 1 all that? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. Now that you've had a chance to 4 think about it, do you stand by your 5 testimony? Was that the best -- most 6 truthful answers you could give regarding 7 your work on all that equipment? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. Got a couple more things I want to 10 talk to you about here. Gaskets. Are 11 there any kind of gaskets in cars? 12 A. You've got gaskets all throughout 13 the car. 14 Q. What kind of gaskets would you 15 actually have to go in as a mechanic and 16 repair or replace or do maintenance on? 17 A. Well, sticking with the muffler, if 18 you put the front pipe on, you've got a 19 manifold -- or a gasket that goes on. 20 It's called the donut gasket. And you 21 have to put that on. If it's a V-8, 22 you've got them, one on each side of the 23 engine. And you have to chisel that off, file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (67 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 0120 1 again, with the chisel to get it off to 2 put your new gasket on. And then the new 3 one will go right on there, but the old 4 one is been there so long that's it's 5 burnt, and you can't get it off except - 6 if you want to cut a hole all the way 7 through it, then you can flip it, and 8 it'll come right off, after you take your 9 air chisel and cut a hole in it or hammer, 10 chisel, whatever you can get to it with. 11 Q. You mentioned a hammer or an air 12 chisel. Are there any other tools that 13 you would remove this or other gaskets on 14 the car with? 15 A. Well, it depends on what gasket it 16 is. If you're working on a head gasket, 17 then you'd take like a putty knife, a 18 scraper, and scrape the old gasket off all 19 you can and then you use the wire brush 20 and the air wheel to clean it off down to 21 bear metal so it's really shiny again. 22 Q. I see. And when you would do this 23 sort of work removing these gaskets, would 0121 1 that ever affect the air around you? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And how would it affect the air? 4 A. Well, you've got dust coming off 5 that. That's what you're grinding off is 6 the gasket, and the gasket has got dust on 7 it when you're grinding it off. 8 Q. And could you actually see this 9 dust in the shop when you were doing the 10 work? 11 A. Yeah, but nothing like a brake or 12 nothing like that, but you could see the 13 dust. 14 Q. And do you think you were breathing 15 that dust? 16 A. Yeah, because you're always over 17 top of it just about every time you're 18 doing it. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (68 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 19 Q. You mentioned something to me one 20 time, and I'm not sure if I understand 21 what this is. Something about a 22 thermostat gasket. What is that? 23 A. A thermostat gasket goes in your 0122 1 intake manifold. It's where the top 2 radiator hose out of the car comes and 3 goes into the intake manifold. That's 4 where -- the water goes through to cool 5 the engine. And the thermostat goes in a 6 little housing up there, and it's got two 7 bolts in it. And you take your radiator 8 hose off and drain your water or 9 antifreeze -- most of them -- all of them 10 now has got antifreeze in them. But you 11 drain that out. And your thermostat sits 12 down in that little housing. And you 13 always put a new gasket, you have to, 14 because it tears when you take that 15 housing off of it. And then you've got to 16 scrape it off, and you take your wire 17 brush and grind it down good and smooth 18 again. 19 Q. Now, I know you're not -- you 20 don't -- you're not a real expert in what 21 does and doesn't have asbestos in it and 22 that sort of thing. But to your 23 understanding, what are some of the 0123 1 gaskets in a car that, to your 2 understanding, have asbestos in them? 3 A. I really don't know. 4 Q. You're not sure? 5 A. I would assume the head gasket 6 would be the biggest one because -- and 7 that's assuming -- the way that it goes on 8 would be the head gasket. But I don't 9 know about asbestos, whether -- I still 10 don't know if it's got asbestos in it or 11 not. 12 Q. Fair enough. Which of these 13 gaskets, to your knowledge, would have a file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (69 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 14 lot of heat being applied to them? 15 A. The head gaskets would have the 16 most, and your manifold gaskets, because 17 they're running in the heat. 18 Q. What about water pump gaskets? 19 A. Water pump gaskets -- your car 20 usually runs at 210 degrees, and the water 21 pump gasket is not in the heat like the 22 exhaust manifold gasket. I know it goes 23 red hot, and the head gasket gets real 0124 1 hot. But the water pump itself, the 2 water, if it's working right, should run 3 around 210 degrees in that. 4 Q. Fair enough. Now, you mentioned to 5 me sometime ago about cars having some 6 sort of insulation or firewall materials. 7 First of all, just so we're clear, to your 8 knowledge, do cars have insulation or 9 firewalls in them? 10 A. Oh, yes. All of them -- all cars 11 do, as far as I know, in case you get on 12 fire, to keep that heat -- it's basically 13 to keep the heat from the engine coming 14 back on the driver through the firewall so 15 it don't burn you up in there. The 16 heat -- used to they didn't have an air 17 conditioner in every car like they do 18 today, and you had like Sheetrock that 19 would go in there with like real shiny 20 aluminum foil on the outside of it, and it 21 would be about an inch thick, that would 22 protect the heat from coming back on the 23 firewall to get into the car where it'd 0125 1 make you hot in there. 2 Q. Now, was this material that you're 3 talking about -- was it your understanding 4 that this was part of the original 5 equipment on the car? 6 A. Oh, yes, all original equipment. 7 Q. Did you ever have to, due to some 8 of the repair work that you were doing, file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (70 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 9 ever have to get in there and mess with 10 any of these firewalls? 11 A. Yeah, if you have to put a heater 12 core in, you've got to remove part of that 13 to get the heater core in. 14 Q. Now, when you would remove that 15 material, would that affect the air around 16 you in any way? 17 A. Not as much as the other stuff. I 18 mean, you'd get dust out of it, but not 19 like brakes or clutch or nothing like 20 that. 21 Q. Fair enough. Was there enough dust 22 that you could actually see it in the air? 23 A. Probably not. 0126 1 Q. Fair enough. All right. Just a 2 couple more things here, and I think we'll 3 take a break here fairly shortly. It's my 4 understanding you have a welding machine 5 on the premises; is that correct? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And what brand is that? 8 A. Lincoln. 9 Q. And when did you buy that? 10 A. Probably early '70s. 11 Q. And let me ask you something. When 12 you first bought that, did you ever have 13 opportunity to actually do a little 14 welding on your own with it? 15 A. Oh, yeah, sure. 16 Q. And how much did you do? Was it a 17 lot or just a little bit, or could you 18 describe that? 19 A. Well, when I first got it, I wanted 20 to learn how to use it and play with it so 21 I welded quite a bit with it. Not -- you 22 know, nothing like a welder, but I would 23 use it may be a couple times a week just 0127 1 to do something with or weld something up 2 on a part. But you use it when you have a 3 shock -- they would -- used to break off file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (71 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 4 the bracket that holds the shock on, and 5 the only thing you could do -- that's one 6 of the main reasons I bought that. You 7 have got to take the shock off because 8 it's full of fluid and it'll blow up if 9 you don't. Then you get that stud and put 10 it back up there and weld it back in. And 11 we would do that, or get a bad part on a 12 frame or something, somebody would come in 13 with rust and you'd grind it off and put a 14 little plate on it for them to save the 15 frame. 16 Q. Now, I understand when you weld, 17 you have to use something called a welding 18 rod; is that right? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. And do you know what kind of models 21 and brands of welding rods you were 22 typically using? 23 A. Well, basically I think they were a 0128 1 Lincoln. 2 Q. Do you remember any model numbers 3 or anything like that, or were there a 4 variety of them? 5 A. Well, there was a variety of them, 6 but the 6013 is normally an all-purpose 7 rod unless you're welding aluminum or 8 stainless steel, and that won't weld 9 aluminum. 10 Q. Did you do most of the welding at 11 the shop, or did you have other people 12 around that were better welders? 13 A. I had other people that were really 14 better welders. 15 Q. So any of the serious welding would 16 be done by other people? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Now, would you ever assist when 19 this was being done? 20 A. I usually got to hold it till they 21 got it welded together to get it started. 22 Q. So how far away were you from these file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (72 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 23 fellows who were actually doing the 0129 1 welding as you were holding things? 2 A. Sometimes I was right over the part 3 they was welding. You take two pieces and 4 hold it together like that, you know, with 5 pliers and hold it there until he gets his 6 arc struck. And then once he gets it 7 going, you can back off on it then. But 8 you hold it right there when they first 9 start. You've got to hold it together. 10 You're closer to it than he is sometimes. 11 Q. Now, were you doing this welding 12 inside or outside, typically? 13 A. All inside. 14 MR. DIMUZIO: All inside. I think 15 we'll go ahead and take about a ten-minute 16 break now. 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record. 18 The time is 11:16 a.m. 19 20 (Break.) 21 22 MR. VALENTI: Gary, I want to 23 object -- this is John Valenti. I want to 0130 1 object to the introduction to the brochure 2 as an exhibit to the deposition. 3 MR. DIMUZIO: And it'll be Exhibit 4 Twelve. 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 6 record. The time is 11:34 a.m. 7 8 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 9 Twelve was marked for 10 identification and copy of same is 11 attached hereto.) 12 13 Q. (BY MR. DIMUZIO:) Mr. Reese, we're 14 back after a brief break. I did want to 15 just revisit one issue here. In the prior 16 four days of discovery deposition, you 17 were asked some questions about Lincoln file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (73 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 18 Electric welding equipment; is that right? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Was all that testimony, as far as 21 you can recall and remember, accurate 22 information that you gave? 23 A. Yes. 0131 1 Q. Now, before, we were talking about 2 how often you used it, and I think we 3 established that when you first bought the 4 welder, you actually did do some welding 5 on your own just to learn how it worked 6 and to fix a few things; right? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Was that a process -- did you 9 continue using that welder on a regular 10 basis for years and years, or did you turn 11 that over to other people in the shop? 12 A. Well, I basically turned it over to 13 other people, but occasionally I would use 14 it but not on a -- we didn't have that 15 much welding to do, and I had a better 16 welder than me. 17 Q. Fair enough. Mr. Reese, I want you 18 to take a look at what's been marked as 19 Exhibit Number Twelve. And that, I'll 20 represent to you, is one of the things we 21 submitted on your behalf when we were 22 doing the interrogatory responses to your 23 case. Do you remember helping put that 0132 1 table together, sir? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Now, when you were helping put this 4 information together, was that the same 5 time frame you were undergoing 6 chemotherapy? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Was that really affecting your 9 energy and your ability to concentrate for 10 long periods of time? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Fair enough. And you and I have file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (74 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 13 had a discussion, and you pointed out to 14 me that you believe that the information 15 about Suzuki on that particular exhibit 16 needs really to be changed; right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. At this point, do you ever recall 19 working on any brake pads or clutches or 20 other asbestos-containing materials on 21 Suzuki cars? 22 A. Not really. That's why I didn't 23 remember, and I didn't say I did. 0133 1 Q. Fair enough, sir. And in your last 2 deposition -- in the discovery deposition, 3 you did testify that you have no 4 recollection of working on asbestos5 containing materials on Suzuki; correct? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. But you do own a Suzuki vehicle; 8 right? 9 A. Not now. I have. I did own one. 10 Q. Fair enough, fair enough. Sir, I 11 have some questions -- in fact, if you 12 want to refer to that, you certainly can, 13 but I just want to ask you about some of 14 the companies on that list here. Before I 15 do that, both today and in the prior 16 depositions, you talked about how to 17 change brakes and clutches and gaskets and 18 mufflers and that sort of equipment; 19 correct? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. And you've testified that generally 22 that work would be the same regardless of 23 the brand of the vehicle; correct? 0134 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Now, I'm going to talk to you about 3 this, and I think -- I'm going to assume, 4 unless you tell me differently, that the 5 brake jobs and the clutch work and the 6 gasket work and the muffler work was the 7 same. If it's not the same, will you let file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (75 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 8 me know that it's different than the other 9 brands? 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. For example, I think you mentioned 12 that Chrysler was different about one 13 aspect on clutches; correct? Or maybe 14 not. 15 A. No. The Volkswagen was the one 16 that was most different because you had to 17 pull the engine out to put a clutch in a 18 Volkswagen. 19 Q. Exactly. So if there is something 20 different, a particular brand in your 21 general testimony, you're going to let the 22 jury and me know? 23 A. Right. 0135 1 Q. First of all, let's talk about 2 General Motors cars and parts. Did you 3 ever -- when you were working from 1961 4 until you stopped working as a mechanic, 5 did you ever have occasion to work on 6 General Motors automobiles? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. As we sit here today, do you 9 remember any of the general brands of 10 General Motors cars that you worked on? 11 A. Well, I worked on all of them for 12 General Motors. 13 Q. Was that one of the major brands 14 that you worked on over the years? 15 A. Yeah, the Chevrolet, you know, the 16 Buick, Oldsmobile. And all of them back 17 in them days. You know, the Impalas. Is 18 that what you want, the brand? 19 Q. Right. In fact, last night I asked 20 you if you could just sit down and write 21 sort of off the top of your head some of 22 the main models of cars that you remember 23 working on; is that correct? 0136 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And could you just read for me the file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (76 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 3 main General Motors cars that you could 4 just recall off the top of your head last 5 night that you've actually done a lot of 6 work on? 7 A. Well, the Buick -- the name -- they 8 have Impala, Century, Electra, Grand 9 Sports, the LeSabre, Regal, Riviera, 10 Skylark and what's called a special wagon 11 that had that wood on it and Wildcat and 12 Skyhawk. 13 Q. What about other General Motors 14 brands? 15 A. General Motors -- well, you've got 16 Cadillac. Cadillac -- back -- Cadillac 17 was Cadillac. They had different names 18 only they was all about the same. And 19 then you had -- the Chevrolet, you had the 20 Bel Air, Biscayne, Camaro, Caprice, 21 Chevelle, Impala, Monte Carlo, Nova, Monza 22 and a Vega. I worked on all those. 23 Q. Any other General Motors cars that 0137 1 you just recalled off the top of your head 2 last night? 3 A. Well, Corvette, but not -- you 4 know, that was a very rare, Corvette. 5 Q. And that's all you can recall right 6 now as we're sitting here and what you 7 could put together just quickly last night 8 for General Motors cars? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What about General Motors parts? 11 Would you ever use General Motors parts to 12 work on those cars? 13 A. Sure, yes. 14 Q. And where would you get those 15 General Motors parts? 16 A. Either at the dealer or parts 17 house. 18 Q. And how often -- what percentage of 19 time would you actually go to the dealer? 20 A. Probably less than fifty percent of 21 the time. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (77 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 22 Q. And when you would have to go for 23 parts for GM cars, what dealers would you 0138 1 typically go to? 2 A. Well, if it was a Chevrolet, I 3 would go to the Chevrolet dealer. And if 4 it was a Cadillac, you go to the Cadillac 5 dealer. If it's a Buick, you go to the 6 Buick dealer. Oldsmobile, Oldsmobile. 7 Q. Now, let me ask you, on the models 8 of cars that you were discussing there, do 9 you recall doing brake work on all those 10 basic models of General Motors cars? 11 A. I would say yes on that, over the 12 years. 13 Q. And what about clutch work? Do you 14 remember doing clutch work on all those 15 general models of cars? 16 A. Well, it depends. Earlier days you 17 would do clutch work, but a lot of these 18 cars that I've got listed here now come 19 out with automatics in them. 20 Q. Certainly. 21 A. But everyone of the ones that would 22 have a clutch in them, we'd probably, over 23 the years, would have done them. 0139 1 Q. And how often would you have to 2 replace a clutch on a car, by the way? 3 A. That depends on the driver. I 4 mean, a clutch could go, you know, for - 5 back in the olden days up to fifty 6 thousand miles, if you had a good driver 7 on the clutch. 8 Q. Now, the brake work on all those 9 cars, was that similar to the brake work 10 on drum and disc brakes as you described 11 earlier in the deposition? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What about the clutch work? The 14 clutch work on those cars similar to the 15 description you gave earlier in today's 16 deposition and the other depositions file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (78 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 17 you've given? 18 A. Well, likewise. It would be the 19 same, the work that would be done on 20 them. Regardless of which one it would 21 be, they were basically the same thing. 22 Q. What about gasket work? First of 23 all, did you do gasket work on those 0140 1 models of cars? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. And would that gasket work be 4 similar to the description of the gasket 5 work you've given in your prior testimony? 6 A. It would be the same. 7 Q. What about mufflers? Did you do 8 muffler work on these brands? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. And again, would that muffler be 11 similar to what you described earlier in 12 your testimony? 13 A. It would be the same. 14 Q. Did these GM cars -- did they also 15 have this firewall heat insulation 16 material you discussed earlier? 17 A. They did. 18 Q. Did you have to manipulate that on 19 any of these cars? 20 A. If you put a heater core in it, you 21 did. 22 Q. Do you believe that you actually 23 put heater coils on some of those General 0141 1 Motors cars? 2 A. Yes. You know, it's a little 3 radiator that goes in the heater. It's in 4 the firewall. 5 Q. And again, I believe in your prior 6 testimony, you've given descriptions of 7 how often you did this sort of brake work 8 and what percentage of the time it would 9 have been General Motors products. Do you 10 recall that testimony? 11 A. Yes. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (79 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 12 Q. To the best of your knowledge, 13 that's about as accurate information as 14 you can give at this point; is that 15 correct? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. And just to kind of generally cover 18 it, when it comes to working on General 19 Motors brakes, did you do that a lot or 20 just a few times over the course of your 21 career? 22 A. We done General Motors a lot. 23 Q. What about clutches? Did you do a 0142 1 lot of General Motors clutches over the 2 course of your career? 3 A. Yes, over the course of it, yes. 4 Q. And what about mufflers? Did you 5 do a lot of muffler work on General Motors 6 cars over the course of your career? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. And I have another question here. 9 When you would do the work on any of these 10 cars, could you tell whether or not it was 11 the original part or a replacement part 12 that you were working on? 13 A. Most generally we could, yes. We 14 could tell whether it was original or 15 after market. 16 Q. Now, with regard to GM cars, how 17 could you tell whether it was an original 18 part or an after market? 19 A. Well, you just learn over the years 20 the way that it's put on there. And it's 21 normally a much better muffler than an 22 after market. If somebody went to the 23 dealer and bought a new muffler in a 0143 1 General Motors box, it would be hard to 2 tell. It would still be a General Motors, 3 but you couldn't tell whether it had been 4 replaced or not before, if they bought it 5 from General Motors, from the parts - 6 Q. What about brakes? Could you ever file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (80 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 7 tell anything about the brake whether it 8 was the original brake or not? 9 A. Yeah, you could always tell on the 10 drum brakes if they were original by the 11 stars that was on the nuts where the wheel 12 goes on. They would put like a little 13 clip on that to hold the drum on while it 14 was going down the assembly line to keep 15 the drum from falling off. 16 Q. And do you know whether or not you 17 ever worked on the original brake 18 equipment on some of these GM cars? 19 A. Oh, sure. 20 Q. What exactly is A.C. Delco? 21 A. A.C. Delco is normally the parts. 22 Q. Is that a part division for General 23 Motors, is your understanding? 0144 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Fair enough. Let's move on to 3 Chrysler. I guess first of all -- the 4 first question would be: What brands of 5 Chrysler cars can you recall having worked 6 on over the years? 7 A. The Newport, the 300, Town and 8 Country, Cordova, Dart, Imperial, Charger, 9 Challenger, Super Bee. It had a Dodge 10 Coronet and a Polara and a Monaco. 11 Q. And did you have repeat customers 12 who owned some of these vehicles that you 13 were doing virtually all the maintenance 14 on them? 15 A. I did after they were out of 16 warranty. 17 Q. Same question with General Motors, 18 by the way. Did you have repeat customers 19 that you would have been doing virtually 20 all the work on those cars? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. And same series of questions. I 23 don't really want to belabor this. But 0145 1 first of all, was the brake work on these file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (81 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 2 vehicles similar to the brake work you 3 described in your prior testimony? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Do you remember doing brake work on 6 those models of cars? 7 A. I do. 8 Q. What about clutch work? Was the 9 clutch work on those vehicles similar to 10 the clutch work you described in your 11 prior testimony? 12 A. No. 13 Q. What was different about them? 14 A. Chrysler was different. They had 15 what was called a fluid drive, and a fluid 16 drive was before the automatic. And you 17 didn't have as much clutch trouble with 18 them as you did with the clutches in the 19 Chevrolets and Fords and Dodges. But the 20 Chrysler itself -- the Chrysler, now, not 21 Dodge or Plymouth -- had the fluid drive 22 in it, which was almost an automatic. You 23 didn't have much trouble out of the 0146 1 Chrysler. 2 Q. When you actually did the work, did 3 you have to replace it in a fairly similar 4 manner to the clutch work that you did on 5 the other vehicles? 6 A. No, it come out different. You 7 took the transmission out, and then the 8 fluid drive was different. 9 Q. Fair enough. Thank you for 10 pointing that out. What about gasket 11 work? Do you recall doing gasket work on 12 those types of vehicles? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And was that gasket work any 15 different than what you've described in 16 your prior testimony? 17 A. The gasket work was the same on all 18 of them. 19 Q. Fair enough. What about muffler 20 work? Did you ever do muffler work on the file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (82 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 21 series of Chrysler cars you were talking 22 about? 23 A. Yes, sir. 0147 1 Q. And was that similar to the muffler 2 work that you described in your prior 3 testimony? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Fair enough. What about Ford? 6 What models of Ford cars do you recall 7 working on regularly over the years at 8 your shop? 9 A. Well, the early shop, it was the 10 Customs then the Galaxy, LTD, Elite, 11 Fairlane, Falcon, Granada, Maverick, 12 Mustang, Torino and a Pinto. 13 Q. What about any of the related 14 companies like Mercurys or Lincolns and 15 that sort of thing? Did you also work on 16 those vehicles? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Do you remember just off -- I don't 19 think you wrote those down, but do you 20 remember offhand any of the particular 21 brands or models that you worked on on 22 those particular cars? 23 A. On the Lincoln -- or the Mercury - 0148 1 did you ask me Mercury? 2 Q. Yes. 3 A. A Monarch and a Montego were the 4 big Mercurys. And the Lincoln -- you only 5 had like the two in the Lincoln, and it 6 was a Mark III and a Mark V. Then you go 7 into different kinds of body styles and 8 that, but that was the name of them. 9 Q. Now, did you have regular customers 10 who would come in for virtually all their 11 maintenance with those vehicles we've been 12 discussing? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. Again, let's just kind of quickly 15 go through this. Do you recall doing file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (83 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 16 brake work on these various Ford or Ford17 related cars? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Do you recall -- was that brake 20 work similar to the brake work you 21 described in your prior testimony? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you recall -- did you do clutch 0149 1 work on these various Ford or Ford-related 2 cars that you've been discussing? 3 A. On the Ford, yes, but the Lincoln, 4 no. 5 Q. And why would that be? 6 A. Well, I think -- about all the 7 Lincolns were automatic then. 8 Q. Right. Fair enough. And was the 9 clutch work that you did do on these Ford 10 family cars -- was that performed in a 11 similar manner that you've described in 12 your earlier testimony? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What about gasket work? Do you 15 recall doing gasket work on this Ford 16 group of automobiles that we're discussing 17 now? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Was that similar to the gasket work 20 that you've described in your prior 21 testimony? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What about mufflers?Did you do 0150 1 muffler work on this Ford-related group of 2 cars? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And was that similar to the muffler 5 work that you described earlier in your 6 testimony? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What is Motor Craft? 9 A. Motor Craft is a division of Ford 10 Motor Company just like A.C. is a division file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (84 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 11 of Delco. Motor Craft -- if you get spark 12 plugs or parts, it says Motor Craft on 13 it. But as far as I know, Ford Motor 14 Company owns it. 15 Q. And if you would go to a Ford 16 dealer to buy an original part, would it 17 say Ford or Motor Craft or both of them? 18 How did that work? 19 A. It depends on the part. Spark 20 plugs would be Motor Craft. And a lot 21 of -- the part says Motor Craft on it just 22 like General Motors says A.C. on it. 23 Q. Fair enough, fair enough. I want 0151 1 to talk about some other car here. 2 Manufacturers we've already talked about 3 Suzuki at the beginning; correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What about Mazda? Do you remember 6 ever working on any Mazda cars? 7 A. Not much on a Mazda. 8 Q. Do you remember any particular 9 models of Mazda that you worked on? 10 A. Not right off. 11 Q. Not offhand. Did you have any 12 customers that owned any Mazda cars? 13 A. Not many. 14 Q. And do you recall at this point 15 whether you did any brake work on any of 16 those cars? 17 A. On the Mazda? 18 Q. Correct. 19 A. I don't think so. 20 Q. Do you recall whether or not you 21 did any clutch work on any of those cars? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Do you recall whether or not you 0152 1 used any gaskets on any of those cars? 2 A. That could be very questionable on 3 that. I'm not sure. 4 Q. Just give me your best and most 5 honest answer. That's fine. What about file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (85 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 6 mufflers? Do you ever recall doing any 7 muffler work on Mazdas? 8 A. Not right off. 9 Q. Fair enough. Do you ever remember 10 working on any Mitsubishi cars? 11 A. Mitsubishi, yeah, we worked some on 12 it, but that was not one of our main cars 13 that we did. 14 Q. Okay. Fair enough. As we sit here 15 today, do you have any recollection of 16 doing any kind of brake work on any 17 Mitsubishi vehicles? 18 A. That would be hard to say over 19 forty years. 20 Q. Right now, as you sit here today, 21 you don't recall? 22 A. Right now I'm not recalling it. 23 Q. Fair enough. What about clutches? 0153 1 Do you recall doing any clutch work on any 2 Mitsubishi vehicles? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you recall doing any gasket work 5 on any Mitsubishi vehicles? 6 A. No. 7 Q. As we sit here today, you don't? 8 That's fine. What about the Nissan 9 company? Have you ever worked on any 10 Nissan vehicles? 11 A. Yeah. Nissan -- we had some 12 customers we done Nissan. 13 Q. Were these repeat customers of 14 yours? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. You would have been doing virtually 17 all the maintenance work on their cars? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Given that -- well, first of all, 20 do you remember the specific models of 21 Nissan cars that your customers would 22 bring to you? 23 A. I'm thinking that Nissan changed 0154 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (86 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 1 names somewhere in the midstream there. 2 Nissan -- I'm trying to think, and it's 3 not coming to me -- was another name 4 before they changed it to Nissan. I'm 5 going to say no on that because I'm not 6 sure. 7 Q. All right. You're not sure what 8 the model numbers were? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. On the cars that you did work on 11 that were Nissan-related cars, again, 12 first of all, these were repeat customers 13 of yours? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And you would have been doing 16 virtually all the maintenance on the cars? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. Would you have done the 19 brake work on those cars? 20 A. Once it was out of warranty, yes. 21 Q. And was that brake work similar to 22 the brake work that you described earlier 23 in your testimony? 0155 1 A. It would be the same. 2 Q. What about clutch work? Would you 3 have done the clutch work for your 4 customers? 5 A. Yeah. The clutches -- they had a 6 lot of clutches in the Nissans. 7 Q. And was that clutch work similar to 8 the clutch work that you've described 9 earlier in your deposition? 10 A. Same, yes. 11 Q. What about gaskets? Would you have 12 done the gasket work for your customers on 13 those Nissan vehicles? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And would that gasket work be 16 similar to what you designed earlier in 17 your deposition? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And did the Nissans also have any file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (87 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 20 kind of firewall or heat insulation? 21 A. I'm not sure. 22 Q. You're not sure. Fair enough. 23 Toyotas. Did any of your customers that 0156 1 were regular customers of yours ever drive 2 Toyota vehicles? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And do you recall any specific 5 models of Toyotas that they were driving? 6 A. Yes. Toyotas -- we had a lot of 7 Toyota customers. They were Camry, 8 Corolla and the pick-up trucks. The pick9 up trucks was the -- what we done a lot of 10 work on. 11 Q. Fair enough. And again I just want 12 to sort of quickly go through these 13 things. Would you have done the brake 14 work for your customers on those cars? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Was the brake work similar to the 17 brake work you've described earlier in 18 your testimony? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Would you have done the clutch work 21 on those cars? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And was that clutch work similar to 0157 1 the testimony you've given about clutch 2 work earlier in your deposition? 3 A. Yes. The same on all of them 4 except the little pickups, the four-wheel 5 drives. Most of them, it was a different 6 procedure. But once you got into the 7 clutch, it was the same. 8 Q. I see. So it was different getting 9 to the clutch? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. But once you got to the clutch - 12 A. Once you got to it, it was the 13 same. 14 Q. Were you still under the car when file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (88 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 15 you were doing this clutch work? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What about gasket work? Would you 18 have done the gasket work for your 19 customers' Toyota cars? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And was that gasket work -- was 22 that similar to the gasket work you 23 described earlier in your testimony? 0158 1 A. The same, yes. 2 Q. What about mufflers? Would you 3 have done the muffler work on your 4 customers' Toyota cars? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And was that muffler work similar 7 to the muffler work you described earlier 8 in your deposition? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you know whether or not the 11 Toyota cars had heat insulation or 12 firewalls in them? 13 A. I don't recall it. 14 Q. Okay. Fair enough. Did any of 15 your customers ever bring in Volkswagens 16 for you to work on? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Was that a fairly common car for 19 you to work on at any point in time? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What models of Volkswagen did you 22 work on over the years? 23 A. The Beetle. Then they come up to 0159 1 the Rabbit. And we worked on the Beetles 2 and the Rabbits the most. 3 Q. And let me ask you some questions 4 about that. Now, I understand some of the 5 work on the Volkswagens was a bit 6 different than some of the American cars; 7 right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. So you keep me straight here. If I file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (89 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 10 ask you about something, you let me know 11 if it's different. Okay? First of all, 12 would you have done any of the work on the 13 Volkswagen cars that your customers would 14 bring to you? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Was that brake work similar to the 17 brake work you described earlier in your 18 testimony? 19 A. Basically, yes. 20 Q. What was different about it? 21 You're saying "basically". 22 A. Well, the Volkswagen don't have a 23 primary and secondary shoe on the Beetle. 0160 1 Both shoes are the same size. You've got 2 two adjustments on the Volkswagen. You've 3 got two holes in the vacuum plate where 4 you adjust them. And they've got 5 different hardware on them. They stop the 6 car by rubbing agin the drum, but they go 7 on different than the others. 8 Q. Would you treat the brake pad that 9 was in the drum brake in a same similar 10 manner to the brake drum work that you 11 described earlier in your deposition? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What about clutches on the 14 Volkswagen? Would you have done any of 15 the clutch work on your customers' 16 Volkswagens? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And was that similar to the clutch 19 work that you described earlier in the 20 deposition? 21 A. No. 22 Q. What wasdifferent about it? 23 A. On a Volkswagen, you have to take 0161 1 the total engine out because the clutch is 2 on the backside of the engine. And you 3 take it out of the car, and then you take 4 the clutch off of it. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (90 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 5 Q. Did the clutch itself still have 6 that same sort of friction material that 7 we were discussing earlier on other 8 clutches? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And how would you clean that area 11 out? 12 A. You just take the air hose and blow 13 that out. 14 Q. Fair enough. Would you have done 15 gasket work on the Volkswagen cars that 16 your customers brought to you? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And was that gasket work similar to 19 the gasket work you described earlier in 20 your deposition? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What about mufflers? Would you 23 have done any muffler work on the 0162 1 Volkswagen cars that your customers would 2 bring in to you? 3 A. Volkswagen don't have mufflers. 4 They have heat exchangers. 5 Q. Good point. So the answer would be 6 no? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Fair enough. 9 A. We changed the heat exchanger when 10 it got a hole burned in it. But it's not 11 like a muffler. That's what you get - 12 your heat inside the car is off the 13 muffler on a Volkswagen. 14 Q. And how often would you have to do 15 this sort of work doing -- working on the 16 heat exchanger on a Volkswagen, typically? 17 A. They usually were good to about 18 sixty to eighty thousand miles with the 19 heat exchangers. 20 Q. I'm not sure if I asked you this. 21 Did you ever work on -- have I asked you 22 about Subarus? 23 A. I don't think so. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (91 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 0163 1 Q. Do you ever work on any Subaru 2 cars? 3 A. Very little. 4 Q. Very, very little? Do you remember 5 any particular models that you worked on? 6 A. No, I don't. 7 Q. As we sit here today, can you 8 remember any particular work that was done 9 on any Subaru vehicles? 10 A. Not right off. 11 Q. That's fine. 12 A. Subaru. 13 Q. I do want to ask you about a few 14 parts, some of the after-market things 15 that you used. What were the main 16 replacement brakes other than the original 17 manufacturer when you would go to a 18 dealer? What were the main replacement 19 brakes that you would use for your 20 customers? 21 A. When I went to a dealer or - 22 Q. At the parts house. 23 A. Parts house. If they would let me, 0164 1 I always tried to use Bendix because it 2 was a premium brake. 3 Q. Well, let's talk about that. First 4 of all, did Bendix make drum-type brake 5 products? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did they also make disc-type 8 brakes? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And did you use both of those? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And did you use those products in a 13 manner similar to what you described 14 earlier in your testimony? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Where were you buying most of the 17 Bendix brakes, by the way? 18 A. Staggy Auto Parts. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (92 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 19 Q. I think you mentioned Borg Warner 20 at one time as a brake company? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. How often did you use Borg Warner 23 brakes? 0165 1 A. Not as much as the others. 2 Percentage, I just can't - 3 Q. And were you using Borg Warner on 4 any particular kinds of vehicles: 5 domestic or foreign or brands? 6 A. Borg Warner was good for foreign 7 cars. 8 Q. So what brands were you typically 9 using the Borg Warners on? 10 A. We would use it on the Volkswagen 11 some, and you would use it on the Nissans. 12 Q. The use of these Borg Warner 13 brakes, was it similar to what you've 14 described generally and for the work that 15 you've done on Volkswagens and Nissans? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What about a company called 18 Grizzly? Did they make any sort of 19 products that you would have used in your 20 shop? 21 A. They made the brake shoes. 22 Q. Did you ever use those brake shoes 23 in your practice? 0166 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. I believe you got into a bit of 3 discussion in your prior testimony about 4 the Grizzly products; is that correct? 5 A. We used them a lot. 6 Q. Is all that testimony in your prior 7 deposition -- is that still consistent 8 with your best recollection of how those 9 products were used? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Were those brakes put on or taken 12 off in a way that was in any way different 13 than your general testimony about how file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (93 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 14 brakes were used? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Fair enough. And again, I think 17 you may have mentioned this. I apologize 18 if it's repetitive. But where did you buy 19 a lot of your Grizzly products from? 20 A. From Staggy Auto Parts. 21 Q. Any other distributors that you're 22 aware of that carried those as well? 23 A. Not that I can recall offhand. 0167 1 Q. Fair enough. There was another 2 company -- Maremont Corporation. I 3 believe you testified earlier that they 4 made mufflers; is that correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did you use those mufflers? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Now, we've just gotten -- in your 9 past days' deposition, and even today, we 10 got into a bit of discussion about how 11 mufflers were used. Is there anything 12 different about the Maremont mufflers than 13 the general testimony that you've given me 14 before? 15 A. No. 16 Q. And did you ever meet with any 17 Maremont individuals? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who did you meet with, if you 20 recall? 21 A. Well, when they would have deals - 22 they had like a route man that would come 23 around once a week and take your stock 0168 1 order. And when they had a big deal on 2 them, like Maremont mufflers, he would 3 have the factory man ride with the sales 4 rep. 5 Q. And what would they talk to you 6 about? 7 A. How many mufflers they could sell 8 you. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (94 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 9 Q. Fair enough. At any time, did 10 anyone from Maremont or any of the other 11 sales reps ever mention to you anything 12 about the dangers of asbestos? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Fair enough. Do you remember 15 working with any products by a company 16 called Abex or PneumoAbex? 17 A. I don't recall. What is it? 18 Q. Just that question -- you don't 19 recall as we sit here today? 20 A. No, I do not. 21 Q. You never would go out and buy an 22 Abex part that you were aware Abex made 23 the product itself; is that correct? 0169 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Fair enough. I'm not sure if we 3 talked about this before. Honda. Did you 4 ever work on any Honda automobiles? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did some of your repeat customers 7 own Hondas? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What were the main brands of Honda 10 or models of Honda that you remember 11 working on? 12 A. Honda Civics and -- we had several 13 of them. 14 Q. And let's just kind of break it 15 down. Did you ever do any brake work on 16 any of these Honda products? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Would that brake work be any 19 different than your prior testimony on 20 brakes? 21 A. No. 22 Q. What about clutch work? Would you 23 have done the clutch work for your 0170 1 customers? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And would that clutch work have file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (95 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 4 been done any differently than your 5 general testimony about clutches? 6 A. No. 7 Q. What about gaskets? Would you have 8 done the gasket work for your Honda 9 customers? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And would that gasket workhave 12 been any different than the general 13 testimony you've given thus far? 14 A. No. 15 Q. What about mufflers? Would you 16 have done the muffler work on these 17 Hondas? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Would that havebeen different than 20 the muffler work that you were describing 21 earlier in your testimony? 22 A. No. 23 Q. And toyour knowledge, were there 0171 1 any firewalls or heat insulation materials 2 in those cars, that you're aware of? 3 A. Not -- I'm not sure. I don't know. 4 Q. Okay. Fair enough. Any cars that 5 you could recall last night that we 6 haven't already discussed that you've 7 jotted down? 8 A. Did we talk about -- the Mazda a 9 little bit. We had done a little work on 10 the Mazda. 11 Q. Right. Okay. What kind of work do 12 you recall doing on a Mazda? 13 A. Probably the same as we do on the 14 others, you know. If they come in, 15 whatever it might need. 16 Q. Did you have any repeat customers 17 for Mazda? 18 A. Not very much. 19 Q. Fair enough. Any other brands 20 there? 21 A. Well, Oldsmobile. I guess we 22 covered that under General Motors, didn't file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (96 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 23 we? 0172 1 Q. What models of Oldsmobiles do you 2 remember working on? 3 A. Oldsmobile was the Cutlass, the 4 Delta 88, the 442, the 98 and Omega. 5 Q. Okay. Fair enough. 6 A. They have the Dodges. That's in 7 the Chrysler family. Demons and Swingers. 8 Q. Any other cars that was listed? 9 A. Did we go to Pontiac? 10 Q. I don't think we discussed that one 11 what yet. What models of Pontiac do you 12 remember working on? 13 A. The Firebird and the Grand Am and 14 the regular Pontiac. That's it. 15 Q. How many pages did you manage to 16 kind of jot down last night? How many 17 pages in your notebook there? 18 A. Well, one, two, three, four, five. 19 Q. Okay. And I tell you what I'd like 20 for you to do. If you could tear those 21 out, or we'll do it on a break, and I'm 22 going to mark that Exhibit Thirteen. And 23 when did you put that list together, sir? 0173 1 2 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 Thirteen was marked for 4 identification and copy of same is 5 attached hereto.) 6 7 A. Last night. 8 Q. Okay. And how much time were you 9 able to spend on that? 10 A. Probably a couple or three hours. 11 Q. And these were brands of cars that 12 you had repeat customers for that you 13 would have worked on regularly at your 14 service station over the years; is that 15 correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 MR. DIMUZIO: All right. I think file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (97 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 18 we're ready to take a break. 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record. 20 Time at 12:11 p.m. 21 22 (Break.) 23 0174 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 2 record. The time is 12:30 p.m. 3 Q. (BY MR. DIMUZIO:) Good afternoon, 4 Mr. Reese. We're back after a short 5 break. I just want to talk a little 6 bit -- I believe in your earlier 7 testimony, the discovery deposition that 8 has been done over the past month, you 9 discussed something about getting some 10 information about asbestos off the 11 internet and trying to give that to some 12 of your employees. Am I remembering that 13 correctly? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. And why did you do that? 16 A. Well, first, I got it for myself. 17 Then after I got it off, I felt that they 18 should know about the danger same as me. 19 So I wanted to give them the information 20 that I have, you know, to protect them. 21 Q. I see. Okay. And you recently 22 asked me if I might have anything that was 23 better; is that correct? 0175 1 A. That is correct. 2 3 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 Fourteen was marked for 5 identification and copy of same is 6 attached hereto.) 7 8 Q. Mr. Reese, I want to show you what 9 has been marked Exhibit Number Fourteen. 10 Have you ever seen that document before, 11 sir? 12 A. Sunday, when you brought it up, I file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (98 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 13 seen it. 14 Q. And just for the record - 15 MR. O'CONNELL: Would you mind 16 showing that to us, please? Did you show 17 that to us before the depo? 18 MR. DIMUZIO: No. 19 MR. O'CONNELL: May I see it? 20 MR. DIMUZIO: Sure. It's the gold 21 book. 22 MR. O'CONNELL: I was asking for a 23 copy. 0176 1 MR. DIMUZIO: Hang on. I have an 2 extra copy here. 3 MR. O'CONNELL: We'll do it the 4 next break. 5 MR. DIMUZIO: Off the record for a 6 moment. 7 8 (Break.) 9 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 11 record at 12:34 p.m. 12 Q. (BY MR. DIMUZIO:) Mr. Reese, 13 what's been marked as Exhibit Number 14 Fourteen, you saw on Sunday; is that 15 correct? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And just to recap before we had to 18 take a short break there, you had 19 requested information to give your 20 employees in the garage; is that correct? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. First of all, are they doing as 23 much brake work now as they used to do at 0177 1 all? 2 A. No. 3 Q. And why is that? 4 A. Well, the brakes last so much 5 longer today, and you've got more people 6 doing them. 7 Q. You had a lot of competition in the file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (99 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 8 brake world? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Like who? 11 A. Car-X, the muffler people and 12 Midas. About all of them now are in the 13 brake business. 14 Q. I see. So basically your shop 15 doesn't find itself doing a whole lot of 16 brake or muffler or clutch-type work; is 17 that correct? 18 A. Not like we used to, no. 19 Q. Well, first of all, just so the 20 record is clear, what's been marked 21 Exhibit Number Fourteen is an EPA 22 document, and it's entitled Guidance for 23 Preventing Asbestos Disease Among Auto 0178 1 Mechanics, and it's dated 1986. 2 Mr. Reese, could I possibly have that 3 exhibit? And I want to put it up on 4 the -- that is Exhibit Number Fourteen as 5 the front cover page of that particular 6 document. And you and I went over this a 7 little bit on Sunday; is that right? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. I want to discuss, actually, a 10 little bit some of the comments in that. 11 On Page One let me read the -- under 12 Section I, mechanics' exposure to 13 asbestos, I want to read the first 14 sentence: Friction materials, such as 15 brake linings and clutch facings often 16 contain asbestos. Mr. Reese, you now know 17 that a lot of these friction materials 18 like the brake linings and clutches that 19 you worked on -- it's your understanding 20 that most of those materials contained 21 asbestos; is that right? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. So that wasn't a surprise to you 0179 1 now; right? 2 A. No. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (100 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 3 Q. Let me read the next sentence to 4 you. Had anyone ever told you this? 5 Millions of asbestos fibers can be 6 released during brake and clutch 7 servicing. Anybody ever tell you that at 8 any time? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. Any of the training, any of the 11 sales presentations, any of the documents 12 that you can recall actually seeing and 13 being conscious of, did they ever warn you 14 that you could be exposed to millions of 15 asbestos fibers? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. The next sentence: Grinding and 18 beveling friction products can cause even 19 higher exposures. Did anyone at any time 20 ever warn you that grinding or beveling 21 any kind of a friction could cause higher 22 exposures to asbestos? 23 A. No, sir. 0180 1 Q. First of all, what do you think 2 they mean here -- you're sort of the auto 3 mechanic expert here. What do they mean 4 by grinding friction products? 5 DEFENSE ATTORNEYS: Objection to 6 form. 7 Q. You can answer. 8 A. The grinding -- well, I guess 9 they're meaning when -- back when we were 10 back doing so much brake work, we would 11 cut that V in it. That would be grinding 12 on it. And then using a sander, probably, 13 to make it fit the drum. 14 Q. And you did that work; right? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. Did you do that work on most of the 17 brake jobs that you did over your career? 18 A. On most of them, yes. 19 Q. And in all the brands that we were 20 talking about before, when you would 21 service those cars, would you typically do file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (101 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 22 grinding or beveling on those products? 23 A. Yes. 0181 1 Q. What do you think they mean here by 2 beveling, by the way? 3 MR. VALENTI: Can I have a 4 continuing objection to this line of 5 questioning? 6 MR. DIMUZIO: That's fine. 7 Q. Who do you think they mean by 8 beveling in this? What does beveling mean 9 to you as an auto mechanic? 10 A. Beveling would probably be where 11 you sand on the corners or grind it down, 12 to bevel something. That's where -- the 13 end of each shoe. 14 Q. And did you do that sort of work? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. Did you do that sort of work 17 frequently when you were doing brake jobs? 18 A. Yes, on just about every one. 19 Q. Going a little further down. When 20 you see a dust cloud doing -- during brake 21 work, you are seeing clumps containing 22 thousands of fibers. First of all, when 23 you were doing this work on brakes and 0182 1 clutches, did you actually see visible 2 dust in the air when you were doing that 3 work? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did anybody ever warn you that 6 those clumps that you could see were 7 actually clumps of thousands of asbestos 8 fibers? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Going down to the second paragraph 11 here. Asbestos released into the air 12 lingers around a garage long after a brake 13 job is done and can be breathed in by 14 everyone inside that garage, including 15 customers. Did anybody ever tell you that 16 before you read this document? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (102 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 17 A. No, sir. 18 Q. Going a little further down. There 19 is no known level of exposure to asbestos 20 below which health effects do not occur. 21 Did anyone ever inform you of that before 22 you read this document? 23 A. Say that again. 0183 1 Q. There is no known level of exposure 2 to asbestos below which health effects do 3 not occur. Did anybody ever inform you of 4 that previously? 5 A. No. 6 Q. And I believe we talked about this 7 before. One thing I pointed out to you is 8 this document came out in June 1986; is 9 that correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you've never seen this document 12 before? 13 A. Not before Sunday. 14 MR. VALENTI: Objection. 15 Q. Never heard of this document 16 before? 17 A. Not before Sunday. 18 Q. Going down to the next paragraph, 19 sir. This is another thing we discussed. 20 Asbestos can be carried on work clothing, 21 contaminating the family, car and home. 22 Had anybody ever warned you that you could 23 bring home asbestos from your job and 0184 1 contaminate your car and your home? 2 A. No, sir. 3 Q. Is that the first time you've ever 4 heard of it? 5 A. It is. 6 Q. Going on to Page Two of this 7 document. There is a section called 8 Cancer. Do you see that there, sir? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. And did your doctor tell you that 11 you have a form of cancer? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (103 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 12 A. He did. 13 Q. And I believe you said before, you 14 had written on your card the word 15 mesothelioma; is that right? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. I want to read the second sentence 18 from that, in this 1986 document: It 19 could be caused by very low exposures to 20 asbestos. Anybody ever warn you in all 21 your time as an auto mechanic that 22 exposure to very low doses of asbestos 23 could give you mesothelioma? 0185 1 A. No. I never even knowed that word 2 until I got cancer. 3 Q. The next sentence: This cancer has 4 occurred among brake mechanics, their 5 wives and their children. First of all, 6 has anyone ever told you that mesothelioma 7 has occurred around mechanics, their wives 8 or their children? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. What was your reaction when you 11 found out that this was out in the EPA for 12 people to read back in 1986? What was 13 your reaction to reading that sentence? 14 A. I was very upset for myself, number 15 one, and number two, that I could take 16 something home to my wife and my kids that 17 I didn't know that I was even taking home 18 with me. I didn't know about it. I mean, 19 I've already got it. Sure, it upset me, 20 but I didn't want to give them a chance in 21 any way to maybe come up with it. So I 22 was upset that nobody told me that, if 23 they knew that. 0186 1 Q. Well, first of all, let me ask you 2 a question: Did you leave your uniform - 3 work uniform at the shop and take a 4 shower, or did you bring that stuff home 5 with you? 6 A. I took it home with me. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (104 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 7 Q. Were you -- did you pop it in a 8 sack and take a shower before you played 9 with your kids or anything like that? 10 A. No. The kids would always meet you 11 out in the driveway. You didn't even get 12 in the house. 13 Q. And would you come in contact with 14 the kids at that time? 15 A. Sure. 16 Q. How? 17 A. Well, they'd run up to the car or 18 truck or whatever you're driving to meet 19 you and want to play or something, you 20 know, with the kids. 21 Q. Fair enough. I'm turning to Page 22 Three here. There is a section called 23 Latency Period, Mr. Reese. I want to read 0187 1 something here to you about halfway down 2 that paragraph: With asbestos, the damage 3 isn't obvious until many years later. 4 This false sense of security can easily 5 lead a worker and/or supervisor to follow 6 work practices which can cause harmful 7 exposures since they are not aware that 8 the disease may develop later. Let me ask 9 you something about that, sir. First of 10 all, were you aware when you were being 11 exposed to these asbestos dusts -- were 12 you aware in any sense that these dusts 13 could hurt you in a serious way? 14 A. Not in a serious way, no, sir. 15 Q. Did you feel the need to take any 16 precautions to prevent cancer or any other 17 fatal disease when you were doing this 18 work? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Fair enough. I want to turn to the 21 next page, Page Four of this document. 22 There is a section -- a Roman numeral four 23 called Extent of Exposure During Brake and 0188 1 Clutch Maintenance. I want to read some file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (105 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 2 of these sentences here and ask you your 3 opinions about that if you did some of 4 this in the workplace. Using a compressed 5 air hose to clean brake drums can release 6 up to sixteen million asbestos fibers in a 7 cubic meter of air around a mechanic's 8 space. First of all, has anyone in your 9 entire career as a mechanic ever warned 10 you that using a compressed air hose could 11 put something like sixteen million 12 asbestos fibers right around your face? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Now, there is an asterisk there. 15 At the bottom it says, these are the 16 larger fibers measured by common methods 17 for counting asbestos fibers. The very 18 small ones are far more numerous, but can 19 only be seen with an electronic 20 microscope. Anybody ever tell you that a 21 lot of these fibers are so small you 22 couldn't see them with the naked eye or 23 even a high-school-style microscope? 0189 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Let me ask you a question: Did you 3 ever use the compressed air hose in your 4 work? 5 A. All the time. 6 Q. Did you use it on just a few of 7 your brake jobs or all of them or most of 8 them? How would you use describe your use 9 of the compressed air hose? 10 A. Just about a hundred percent of the 11 time. 12 Q. And eventually, you did start using 13 some sort of solvent when there was an 14 issue of keeping dust down, was your 15 understanding? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Let me ask about the next sentence: 18 Even hitting a brake drum with a hammer 19 can release over a million asbestos 20 fibers. Had anyone ever told you in all file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (106 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 21 your years as an auto mechanic that 22 hitting a brake drum with a hammer can 23 release over a million asbestos fibers? 0190 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. And I believe we talked about this 3 earlier, but you testified that's exactly 4 what you did; is that right? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. In fact, can you show me the hammer 7 that you used to hit the brake drum with? 8 A. This one right here. 9 Q. And that was the same hammer that 10 we were talking about before? 11 A. Same hammer. I've had it forever. 12 Q. Let me ask you about the next 13 sentence here: The asbestos fibers 14 released from brake and clutch work can be 15 scattered throughout a garage. Anybody 16 ever tell you that these particles could 17 spread throughout your whole garage area? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Fair enough. Turning to Page Five 20 of this document. First of all, we talked 21 about the dimensions of your shop 22 earlier. All your bays and that sort of 23 thing. Do you recall that testimony, sir? 0191 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Would you have ever been seventy3 five feet or more away from someone when 4 they were working on a car if you were 5 both working in your various bays? 6 A. No, because the shop wasn't that 7 big. 8 Q. Let me read something to you here 9 on Page Five, last sentence there -- part 10 of the sentence: Asbestos from brake work 11 can be spread seventy-five feet away from 12 the mechanic. Anybody ever tell you that 13 working with asbestos doing brake work 14 could spread the asbestos at least 15 seventy-five feet away? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (107 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. Going down to page -- a little 18 further down on Page Five there's a 19 sentence that says, beveling new linings 20 can release concentrations of up to 21 seventy-two million fibers and light 22 grinding of new linings up to 4.8 million 23 fibers. My only question about that - 0192 1 couple questions. First of all, were you 2 aware that you could release millions of 3 fibers by doing those activities? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you do those activities on 6 brakes? 7 A. I did. 8 Q. I want to turn now to a little 9 different subject from the brakes. We 10 talked about doing clutch work. You've 11 done clutch work throughout your career; 12 is that true, sir? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And on Page Seven of this document 15 there is a section at the bottom that 16 says, clutch repair. And let me read that 17 to you: Significant exposure can also 18 occur during clutch repair. My first 19 question is: Did anyone ever warn you 20 that doing clutch work could expose you to 21 significant amounts of asbestos? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. Next sentence: Since a mechanic's 0193 1 head is typically under the clutch 2 assembly during clutch repair, asbestos 3 often falls on a mechanic's face and 4 clothing. In all your years as a 5 mechanic, with all the workshops and 6 training you've been to, did anybody ever 7 communicate to you that working on a 8 clutch could mean that asbestos was 9 falling into your face? 10 A. No, sir. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (108 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 11 Q. Were you actually under the car 12 when you were doing a lot of your clutch 13 work? 14 A. All the time, except for a 15 Volkswagen. 16 Q. Did you ever notice that dust was 17 actually falling down when you did that 18 work? 19 A. Sure. 20 Q. Did you ever have to do anything to 21 protect yourself in any way from that 22 dust? 23 A. Like before. Just put on -- we had 0194 1 safety glasses in the shop. Put it on to 2 keep the dust out of your eyes. 3 4 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 Fifteen was marked for 6 identification and copy of same is 7 attached hereto.) 8 9 Q. Fair enough. Okay, sir. I want to 10 turn now to what has been marked Exhibit 11 Number Fifteen, I believe. 12 COURT REPORTER: That's right. 13 Q. There is the front page of that, 14 sir. And, sir, I'll represent to you that 15 I gave you that document for the first 16 time on Sunday. Is that consistent with 17 your recollection? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. And just for the record, what 20 Exhibit Number Fifteen is is the current 21 draft proposal for, quote, Current Best 22 Practices for Preventing Asbestos Exposure 23 Among Brake and Clutch Workers. Just want 0195 1 to ask you about a few things about this, 2 sir, if I could, kind of along a similar 3 line of questions -- the last one. 4 Actually, it would appear that this is 5 sort of a folded-up sort of document. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (109 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 6 Does it look that way to you, sir? There 7 are three columns there; right? 8 A. Here, yes. 9 Q. And there is three columns on the 10 next page; right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. So we're just going to take these 13 as Page One and Page Two, although the 14 booklet may ultimately have them in a bit 15 of a separate order. 16 MR. VALENTI: I just want to renew 17 my objection. Same objection I had to 18 Exhibit Fourteen. 19 MR. DIMUZIO: Okay. 20 Q. First of all, I want to note that 21 the date on this document -- do you see 22 that down underneath that picture of that 23 brake assembly there, sir -- is August 0196 1 2006? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. So the first one I gave you was 4 '86. This is 2006. I want to go over to 5 some of these work practices over here on 6 the far left side of the document. Work 7 practice don't's. I just want to go 8 through these and see what you did and 9 didn't do. Now, in order to prevent 10 exposure to -- asbestos exposure to brake 11 and clutch repair workers, the whole 12 purpose of this document -- here is what 13 they're saying you should not do. Do not 14 use compressed air for cleaning. 15 Compressed air blows brake and clutch dust 16 into the air. We've already 17 established -- did you use compressed air 18 when you were doing this work? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. No one ever warned you not to do 21 that? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. The next point: Do not clean 0197 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (110 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 1 brakes or clutches with a dry rag, brush, 2 wet or dry, or a garden hose. First of 3 all, sir, did you ever do any of that? 4 Did you ever clean brakes or clutches with 5 a dry rag or brush? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did anybody ever warn you not to do 8 that? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Next point: Do not use an ordinary 11 shop vac to pick these things up. Anybody 12 ever warn you not to use your ordinary 13 shop vac when you were doing this sort of 14 work? 15 A. No. 16 Q. And here's something that we talked 17 about a little bit earlier from the 1986 18 document. Avoid taking work clothing home 19 after performing brake and clutch work to 20 prevent exposing your family to dust 21 particles that may contain asbestos. 22 First of all, we've established you wore 23 your work clothes home; right? 0198 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Who cleaned those clothes? 3 A. Well, I took them -- after -- when 4 I changed clothes, I would take them back 5 to the shop, and we would send them to the 6 laundry, the route man -- Cintas uniform 7 people. 8 Q. And would you pick up more uniforms 9 at the shop at a later date? 10 A. Well, they'd bring you in clean 11 ones and take out the dirty ones. 12 Q. Now, here is some work practice 13 do's I want to go to. It's the very next 14 section on that same page: Use preground 15 ready-to-install parts. For most of your 16 career, were you using preground ready-to- 17 install brake and clutch parts? 18 A. Was I? 19 Q. Right. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (111 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 20 A. I don't understand. 21 Q. Let me ask that again. For most of 22 your career, were the brakes and clutches 23 that you were using -- were they already 0199 1 preground and ready to install without you 2 doing any other surface preparation? 3 A. Well, some were, but sometimes you 4 still had to do a little work on them. 5 Q. And through the '60s and '70s and 6 '80s, would you generally, more often than 7 not, have to prepare the surface of the 8 brakes and the clutches? 9 A. Yes, during then. 10 Q. Let me ask you this next work 11 practice do: If a brake or clutch lining 12 must be drilled, grooved, cut, beveled or 13 lathe-turned, use low speeds to keep down 14 the amount of dust created. Did anybody 15 in your entire career ever warn you that 16 if you had to do this work, you should use 17 low speeds to keep down the dust being 18 created? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. In fact, what did you use to 21 actually do this type of work? 22 A. A lot of sanding, we sanded by 23 hand. But then when we cut the grooves in 0200 1 the shoes, we would use a high speed 2 cutter. Air, you know, chuck. 3 Q. And did anybody ever warn you to 4 use any sort of collection or exhaust 5 system when you were doing this work? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. I want to go to the second page of 8 what's been marked Exhibit Number 9 Fifteen. I'm going to ask you about a few 10 of those things. First of all, you notice 11 there's a picture there in the middle of 12 the document, sir? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. What is that a picture of? file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (112 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 15 A. It's the picture of a axle and a 16 vacuum plate and brake shoes. 17 Q. What's on the ground there? 18 A. That's the drum. 19 Q. And what's that fellow holding in 20 his hand there? 21 A. He's holding an air chuck that you 22 blow with. The end of an air hose. 23 Q. And there is a circle with a red 0201 1 line through it indicating you shouldn't 2 do that; right? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Did you ever see any picture like 5 that with a circle over it saying, don't 6 do this, before, in your life? 7 A. Not before Sunday. 8 Q. Did you actually do exactly that? 9 Did you actually take a compressed air 10 hose and blow the brake dust out of the 11 drums? 12 A. I did. 13 Q. Fair enough. Going over to the far 14 left side of that document, sir. I just 15 have a question -- it talks about what is 16 asbestos and how it can cause health 17 problems? I just want to read one 18 sentence from the bottom of that 19 paragraph: Fibers imbedded in the lung 20 tissue over time may result in lung 21 diseases such as asbestosis, lung cancer 22 or mesothelioma. Anybody in your entire 23 career as a mechanic ever warn you that 0202 1 the asbestos fibers could imbed in your 2 lungs and cause asbestosis, lung cancer or 3 mesothelioma? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. And your doctor told you that you 6 have asbestos-related mesothelioma; is 7 that correct? 8 A. That is correct. 9 MR. DIMUZIO: Off the record. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (113 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record 11 at 12:56. 12 13 (Break.) 14 15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 16 record. The time is 12:56 p.m. 17 Q. (BY MR. DIMUZIO:) Mr. Reese, I 18 believe that is all the questions that I 19 have at this time. Some of the other 20 attorneys may have some questions, and I 21 may have some followup. Otherwise, I'll 22 reserve my questions till time of trial. 23 Thank you for your time. 0203 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record 2 at 12:57 p.m. 3 4 (Break.) 5 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 7 record at 12:58 p.m. 8 EXAMINATION 9 BY MS. MASCIO: 10 Q. Mr. Reese, my name is Karen Mascio. 11 Your counsel asked you today several 12 questions about different brands of after13 market brake products that you used. And 14 there are a few I believe you mentioned in 15 your prior deposition that were not 16 covered today. You used brake products 17 manufactured by Gray Rock; isn't that 18 correct? 19 A. Yes, ma'am. 20 Q. And you used brake products 21 manufactured by Raybestos; isn't that 22 correct? 23 A. Yes. 0204 1 Q. Did you use those brands of brakes 2 beginning in the '60s when you started 3 doing automotive work? 4 A. I'm not sure on that. file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (114 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 5 Q. You recall using those brands of 6 brakes throughout your career; is that 7 correct? 8 A. I remember using them. I don't 9 know exactly when I started using them. 10 MS. MASCIO: Thank you, sir. 11 That's all my questions. 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record 13 at 12:58. 14 15 (Brief break.) 16 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 18 record at 12:59. 19 EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. MARTUCCI: 21 Q. Mr. Reese, my name is Carmen 22 Martucci. We met prior during your four 23 days of your discovery deposition. 0205 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. I don't have too many questions to 3 ask you, mainly because your counsel, 4 Mr. DiMuzio, has asked you if you stand by 5 the testimony you gave during those 6 discovery depositions. And your answers 7 have been that you have stood by those 8 answers; is that correct? 9 A. That is correct, sir. 10 Q. Okay. Now, today, Mr. DiMuzio did 11 ask you some questions about parts houses 12 that you would have made purchases from or 13 that Tysons would have made purchases 14 from. Today you mentioned Staggy's, 15 Wilcox and NAPA; is that correct? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Now, during your discovery 18 deposition, you mentioned a number of 19 other parts houses. And I don't want to 20 get into the particulars of each one again 21 because we already did that, but I do want 22 to have you confirm that you already 23 testified about these various other parts file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (115 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 0206 1 houses. So did you testify already about 2 Kentucky Motors? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Did you testify already about KOI? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Did you testify already about 7 AutoZone? 8 A. Later than -- now, yes. They exist 9 don't in the first. 10 Q. But you did cover that testimony - 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. -- during your discovery 13 deposition? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Did you testify already about 16 Advantage? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Did you testify already about 19 CARQUEST? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Did you testify already about Pep 22 Boys? 23 A. Yes, sir. 0207 1 Q. And did you testify already about 2 Sebrings or Sebrings? 3 A. Sebrooks. 4 Q. Sebrooks. I apologize. 5 A. No problem. Yes. 6 MR. MARTUCCI: Okay. Thank you, 7 sir. That's all the questions I have. 8 MR. DIMUZIO: Mr. Reese, I believe 9 that is it. Thank you very much for your 10 time. 11 A. Okay. 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record. 13 Time is 1:01 p.m. This concludes the 14 deposition. 15 16 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT. 17 18 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (116 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM] file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt 19 20 21 22 23 0208 1 CE RTIFICATE 2 3 I hereby certify that the above and 4 foregoing deposition was taken down by me 5 in stenotype and the questions and answers 6 thereto were transcribed by means of 7 computer-aided transcription, and that the 8 foregoing represents a true and correct 9 transcript of the testimony given by said 10 witness upon said hearing. 11 I further certify that I am neither 12 of counsel, nor of kin to the parties to 13 the action, nor am I in anywise interested 14 in the result of said cause. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Lori S. Sizemore, CSR, RPR 23 file:///C|/Users/MadeK42/Desktop/Reese%20Depo%2010-10-06.txt (117 of 117) [5/17/2011 9:55:49 AM]