Document jy58vqd1y3pV4qYJyEv9GjoM9

FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 WJ. >1 OR_L VT_LWJ. JTXJnJ.RXJM. 'I T1VTXTLJQJ.TIVR1TVr'JT. OV_/F JA. \Tl J!41_RL LAi_AL /T1Ai. 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 WALTER OWENS, et al., ) 6 Plaintiffs, ) 7 8 vs. ) ) CIVIL ACTION NO. 9 ) CV-P-440-E 10 MONSANTO COMPANY, ) 11 Defendant. ) 12 13 fASvIf/Xpoqtxtxtvoyi'm- -o- -f OFT ART FQ OFTATA/T AM 14 15 In accordance with Rule 5 (d) of The 16 Alabama Rules of Civil Procedure, as Amended, 17 effective May 15, 1988,1, TAMMY JENNINGS 18 GREGORY, am hereby delivering to MS. LAURA RUTH 19 the original transcript of the oral testimony 20 taken on the 4th day of November, 1999, along ADAD21-007469 HARTOLDMON0035591 21 with exhibits. 22 Please be advised that this is the same and 23 not retained by the court reporter, nor filed 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007470 HARTOLDMON0035592 2 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 with the Court. 2 Txtwn=v> Au^vm^/nvcjin+iivrmu rv\fi* viiuiivj Pv^lvnaututnncumii ^.*..v7...u0..0o.. lUlWll 3 before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, commencing at 4 10:10 A.M. on the 4th day ofNovember, 1999, by 5 the Plaintiffs, at the law offices of Fite & 6 Miller, Anniston, Alabama pursuant to the 7 stipulations set forth herein. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ADAD21 -007471 HARTOLDMON0035593 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007472 HARTOLDMON0035594 3 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 APPEARANCES 2 A nnpQrma Th r\r T'h^ PlainFiffe- J. 111^ -L VI 111V J. lUlllUllkJ. 3 MITHOFF & JACKS, LLP 4 By: Laura Ruth, Esquire 5 and Drew Wright, Esquire 6 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 1010 7 Austin, Texas 78701 8 9 Appearing For The Defendant: 10 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 11 By: Adam Peck, Esquire 12 The Clark Building 13 Ann on+h -qftaaf I \J \J ^vui VU Wk 1 1 VI 1.1.X 14 Birmingham, Alabama 35203-3200 15 16 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS & MOORE 17 By: Michael E. Kelly Esquire 18 300 North Greene Street 19 Suite 1400 20 Greensboro, North Carolina 27401 ADAD21-007473 HARTOLDMON0035595 21 22 Court Reporter: 23 Tammy R. Jennings Gregory 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007474 HARTOLDMON0035596 4 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 INDEX 2 3 Witness: Charles Chatman 4 Stipulations............................page 5 5 Examination by Ms. Ruth................page 7 6 Reporter's Certificate................. page 90 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 EXHIBITS 14 15 Plaintiffs' No. 29.................. page 65 16 Plaintiffs' No. 30.................. page 71 17 18 19 20 ADAD21-007475 HARTOLDMON0035597 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007476 HARTOLDMON0035598 5 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STIPULATIONS 2 3 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and 4 between the parties through their respective 5 counsel that the deposition of Charles Chatman 6 may be taken before Tammy R. Jennings Gregory, at 7 the law offices of Fite & Miller, Anniston, 8 Alabama on the 4th day ofNovember, 1999. 9 10 11 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 12 the signature to and the reading of the 13 rw1^vrytru\ojii+utvrmu Ur mv W.....li.t.m.n...^.v..Q o*Oo to .\.\..7.v.C..u..\.ii..\.v.7..v...u...,.....fu.h...i.Av. 14 deposition to have the same force and effect as 15 if full compliance had been had with ail laws and 16 rules of court relating to the taking of 17 depositions. 18 19 20 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that ADAD21-007477 HARTOLDMON0035599 21 it shall not be necessary for any objections to 22 be made by counsel to any questions, except as to 23 form or leading questions, and that counsel for 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007478 HARTOLDMON0035600 6 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 the parties may make objections and assign 2 err.ri rvvunniiruloj mat tuViiv> tiimmipv \_/j. turiiauli rv\ir uati tuViiv^ tuimmpv oouaiivrlt 3 deposition is offered in evidence or prior 4 thereto. 5 6 7 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that 8 the notice of filing ofthe deposition is waived. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ADAD21-007479 HARTOLDMON0035601 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007480 HARTOLDMON0035602 7 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 STATE OF ALABAMA, CITY OF ANNISTON, 2 Mj. 'imv_//Tt 7 1j i\/TR*F/R v Ai ^ 1i Q^ Qy Q^ j 3 10:10 A.M., 4 5 CHARLES CHATMAN, 6 having been first duly sworn, was examined and 7 testified as follows: 8 9 COURT REPORTER: Usual stipulations 10 okay? 11 MS. RUTH: That's right. 12 MR. KELLY: Yes. 13 14 EXAMINATION BY MS. RUTH: 15 Q. Mr. Chatman, have you ever given a deposition 16 before? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. You have? 19 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 20 Q. In the context of being a Monsanto -- ADAD21-007481 HARTOLDMON0035603 21 A. No. 22 Q. -- or Solutia employee? 23 A. No. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007482 HARTOLDMON0035604 8 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. What reason did you give a deposition? 2 a n, Arrxrr'A L 1. I V VI VV. 3 Q. A divorce? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Is that the only time you've ever given a 6 deposition? 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. Well, nonetheless, you still understand the 9 ground rules are the same and that by taking 10 the oath, you swear to tell the truth just as 11 though you were sitting in a court of law? 12 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 13 Ov^. vC^Wivrau\7j . iiiv v\v\7uf3Tj 7 c\\v7v& jvvui rfvr\ iruunn +uhnioo iieo rrA+fmrr 14 to be a little bit formula, but we're going 15 to run through your work history at Monsanto 16 as an overview, probably pick an area or two 17 to ask you a little more questions about, and 18 then some follow-up questions at the end. 19 And we should have you out of here hopefully 20 no later than noon or 12:30. ADAD21-007483 HARTOLDMON0035605 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Are you presently still an employee? 23 A. Yes. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007484 HARTOLDMON0035606 9 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. And it's now Solutia? 2 A Qr\1nfid L 1. LJV1UUU. 3 Q. But purposes -- Monsanto for purposes of this 4 deposition. 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. When did you start working for Monsanto? 7 A. 1965. May of 1965. 8 Q. May of 1965. 9 A. Yeah. 10 Q. Was that your first job out of high school or 11 college? 12 A. No, second. 13 n ir\h9 V^. UVW11W JVL/i 14 A. Out of high school. 15 Q. Okay. What was your first job? 16 A. Union Foundry. 17 Q. Union Foundry. And how long were you at 18 Union Foundry? 19 A. About twenty months. 20 Q. What did you do? We're not going to spend a ADAD21-007485 HARTOLDMON0035607 21 lot of time on Union Foundry, but -- 22 A. Well, I was a pipe grinder. 23 Q. Pipe grinder? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007486 HARTOLDMON0035608 10 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Yeah. 2 O . Tahn. Aj_ >/Tiuqaj7 rv\-if 1i y vv Avuvtuhovr'i*i -J\17vrw\n ioj lfuoirfi^wrl Av*v7mi+hi 3 Monsanto, what capacity did you start? 4 A. Laborer in the shipping department. 5 Q. A laborer in the shipping department? 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. And how long did you do that for? 8 A. Eleven months. 9 Q. And then what did you do? 10 A. Went to the operator laborer department. 11 Q. Operator laborer department? 12 A. Yeah. Operator laborer in aroclor 13 ruiAv^nyouHi m-tYivipinnf. 14 Q. Operator and laborer in the aroclor 15 department. And how long did you do that? 16 A. About six or seven months. 17 Q. What did you do next? 18 A. Then I went to operator in the P2S5 19 department. 20 Q. How long did you do that for? ADAD21-007487 HARTOLDMON0035609 21 A. Probably eight years. Seven, eight years 22 from '66 to -- through 74. 23 Q. You're really going to be short. What did 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007488 HARTOLDMON0035610 11 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 you do after that? 2 xAx. Tx 'Viiiv^-un Tx Av*v7vitHrl- +rvr\ rv\^nvpiruortrv\ir iinn mv Ki/iin^Vni^vnii^j/li 3 department. 4 Q. That would be around 1974? 5 A. 75. Started January 1st of 75. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. To mid'81. About June of'81, and then I 8 went to chief operator in the biphenyl 9 department. 10 Q. Okay. And then -- 11 A. Until -- I stayed operator, chief operator, 12 until March of '87 is when the plant 13 i '7&A cmrl T rrrd- rr\l 1 r\n+ r\-P mv UV VVIIJIXjVU^ U11U X 1UUVU C/Uk C/i lllj V111V1 14 job. Then I went back to operator in the 15 biphenyl department. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Until April'98. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Then I went to chief operator, plant chief 20 operator. ADAD21-007489 HARTOLDMON0035611 21 Q. What does that mean? 22 A. Plant wide chief operator. We don't have 23 department chiefs. We have plant wide 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007490 HARTOLDMON0035612 12 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 chiefs. 2 n Qr\ -wrvii q11 Hi-pTiar^-nf__ V^. j1 VW V VI UVV Ull U1V U111V1 V1U 3 A. On the off shift and weekend. On day shift, 4 we have three chiefs, sometime four chiefs 5 for each department for the warehouse, PNP, 6 and polyphenol, but on off shift and weekend, 7 we have plant wide chief. That chief is 8 over -- 9 Q. Just one chief -- 10 A. One chief. 11 Q. -- and he oversees everything? 12 A. Right. 13 nv^. Quvr\ fuhicui+i'ej hown-n fioXir uclh/vruuifi ua Ty /vAucjir ucmnurl ua nVvualn-P 14 now you've been doing that? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. You spent the vast majority ofyour time it 17 looks like in the biphenyl department? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. More than twenty years. Almost twenty-three 20 years. ADAD21-007491 HARTOLDMON0035613 21 Okay. Well, let's focus on your 22 early days with Monsanto. 23 A. Okay. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007492 HARTOLDMON0035614 13 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. When you came in as a laborer in the laborer 2 cVnrvrvmrr rul^vr^^auritmuiivniu+; vviiui Av^uAuAytrv\nu ru1rv\9: 3 A. We did the loading of all the chemicals, 4 aroclor, biphenyl, niran, whatever they're 5 loading. 6 Q. Loading them where? Loading them to go to 7 customers or -- 8 A. Customers, tank cars, and all the packaging 9 -- not really the packaging. We did the 10 loading of the packages and the drums to the 11 trucks and tank cars to go to the different 12 customers. 13 nv^. ni^iiHu \j7ur\1u1 ua1uovr\ kuivv \n7Co+a vvujiv iiiuiviiuij^ ivnuv7v<*ir 14 materials? 15 A. Right. We did the waste from different 16 departments and take it to the landfill. 17 Q. You did? What was your procedure for 18 bringing that up to the landfill? How did 19 that work? 20 A. We'd load it on the back of the truck and ADAD21-007493 HARTOLDMON0035615 21 took it up to the landfill. 22 Q. You loaded? 23 A. Drums. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007494 HARTOLDMON0035616 14 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. It was drums? 2 A ririiiYio L A.. J-/i UiliL>. 3 Q. What other form would it be in? What 4 other -- 5 A. Well, I guess -- we hauled all the trash up 6 there, so sometimes it may have been loose 7 wood or cardboard or paper, just whatever. 8 Everything went to the landfill. 9 Q. Where would loose wood come from? 10 A. We had a carpenter department. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. And they used it for pouring form for 13 pvurunirvriAvfiAv ucmimrl AuiiAu Ke/muiliurlmmgrr__ftvmrr Ke,',uiUiiui mnrgr 14 repairs and stuff like that, and they did the 15 cabinet making and stuff like that. 16 Q. And you would get that in a loose form rather 17 than bagged, or would that normally be 18 bagged? 19 A. Well, that would normally be loose -- 20 Q. Okay. ADAD21-007495 HARTOLDMON0035617 21 A. --the wood and stuff, but the bags and all 22 that would be in trash drums. All the waste 23 went in trash drums, sawdust and stuff like 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007496 HARTOLDMON0035618 15 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 that. 2O V^. . A XT /1h1aUtI aV\rvii+ UVVUl Ay tVAUi1ir r\her\1 +> VU/kJVXV'l.V' r\J\1r r\1 A VIV* r\r VI 3 broken plant equipment, would you ever deal 4 with old plant equipment from any department 5 if you were getting rid of, I don't know, 6 some piece of equipment or piping? 7 A. Well, all the piping went up there too. I 8 guess old broken piping. Well, not all went 9 up there. 10 We had -- at that time at the niran 11 department, we had a contamination pit, so 12 all the pipes out of niran went into a 13 pnnr'rAfA Kooin VUUVIVIV WllkUllllllUUVll VUOiil VV1V1 V uivj 14 and then they sold them for scrap after they 15 was treated, the piping and stuff. 16 Q. Only the stuff from the niran department? 17 A. Only the stuff from the niran. 18 Q. What about other piping? 19 A. It was sold as scrap. 20 Q. It was sold as scrap? ADAD21-007497 HARTOLDMON0035619 21 A. Anything that was contaminated went in there. 22 I'm not sure what they -- all the 23 contaminated pipe they considered 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007498 HARTOLDMON0035620 16 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 contaminated went into the contamination pit. 2 ucmiiHu Tj. rulrvxtiVi it- ri ^voulnKjr Vmnirvvv**v7 AwTinzVuioif mvj hwco pvHu tirv\ 3 decontaminate it. 4 As laborers, we used to all haul 5 pipes and all into that. 6 Q. From the niran department to the 7 decontamination pit? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. But if you've got - I guess you wouldn't 10 know, and correct me if I'm wrong -- would 11 you know how a pipe was characterized as 12 contaminated or not? Who made the 13 rUlVnI V cl AimfitlWrUvVnOll UllVUlVl rV\fAr niiruvfi ninimt eohnrv\n/u1riuJ Vi/wva 14 considered contaminated? 15 A. I guess the niran department, their foreman, 16 and the maintenance department. All we did 17 was just the transporting. 18 Q. So any piping from any other part of the 19 plant other than niran as far as you know 20 would not be considered contaminated? ADAD21-007499 HARTOLDMON0035621 21 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. Go 22 ahead. 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007500 HARTOLDMON0035622 17 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Did you ever pick up piping 2 frr*m arm rxth^r r\at*f r\-f r\1 ant +r\ hrinrr nn 11 Vlll KA.ilJ VU1V1 pui l. VI 111V IV Ollll^ U|^ 3 to the landfill? 4 A. Well -- 5 Q. Would you ever swing by the aroclor 6 department and they'd have some old pipes 7 sitting out on their dock and ask you to pick 8 it up as trash? Did that ever happen? 9 A. I'm not sure. We picked up everything in the 10 plant. When they called on the shipping, 11 they said, hey, we got material to take to 12 the landfill, and we picked it up, you know. 13 Ov^. TwTxxh-nhuunh fyixnxrJxiurxav+uui nnrgr j voy. 14 A. Whether it was contaminated or not. I'm not 15 aware of it. But I know they had a 16 contamination pit that they put all the 17 contaminated material in. 18 Q. But your -- at the time, as the person who 19 would pick up the trash, would you have 20 assumed that ifyou were asked to pick it up. ADAD21-007501 HARTOLDMON0035623 21 it was either not contaminated or it would be 22 in a drum? 23 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007502 HARTOLDMON0035624 18 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) It's still okay to answer. 2 A WaII T rlrvn't__ XX. V T Vli, X UVU l 3 Q. If you saw pipe sitting out -- let me just 4 ask you: If you went to a department, even 5 niran, ifyou went to any department, 6 aroclor, biphenyl, and there were pipes or 7 some kind of metal equipment, pans, anything, 8 and it was sitting out on the dock and you 9 were supposed to pick it up and bring it up 10 to the landfill -- you'd been called and said 11 we've got some stuff out on our dock, please 12 come pick it up and take it up to the 13 Icmrl-ftll i+'o __-M/rui1 r1 fliArA Ka cmw lUliUliii, 11 J UUJ11 VWM1U U1V1 V C/V Ullj 14 procedure or method of characterizing whether 15 that trash was contaminated or not? 16 A. I don't know. 17 Q. As far as you knew -- you didn't make any 18 judgment whether or not -- 19 A. We didn't make any judgment. Only thing we 20 required to have the safety equipment -- ADAD21-007503 HARTOLDMON0035625 21 gloves, shoes, steel-toe shoes, etcetera, and 22 we took it up to the landfill. 23 Q. What's etcetera? Was there anything other 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007504 HARTOLDMON0035626 19 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 than gloves and shoes you were required to 2 Av*v7v<u^air9; 3 A. Glasses and all. All the basic safety 4 equipment. 5 Q. Basic safety equipment would include glasses? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. Would it include a hard hat? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. Would it include any kind of a breathing 10 mask? 11 A. No, no. 12 Q. No. Would it include -- what would be the -- 13 vvnw7r\un1iwr1 iifi mnirv^iluuurlv^ u> iuiniru-Piur\ri-imu;9 14 A. Yeah, we had standard company uniforms, yes. 15 Q. That was laundered at the -- 16 A. Right. At the plant. 17 Q. Okay. So now that we've driven around the 18 plant and picked up trash and loaded on it on 19 the - how did you load it, on the back of 20 the truck; is that what you said? ADAD21-007505 HARTOLDMON0035627 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q. So let's go to the landfill. What do you do 23 when you get up to the landfill? What do you 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007506 HARTOLDMON0035628 20 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 see, and what do you do? 2 XAX. W* T7cV* h11aUVA( Ua mf 3 Q. A pit. Just one pit? 4 A. Well, as far as I remember, there's just one. 5 That's a long time ago. 6 Q. I understand. 7 A. I was new then. We rolled the dmms and 8 whatever off into the pit, the contamination 9 pit. 10 Q. And the stuff like the wood or the pipes or 11 the bags of paper, regular trash, what would 12 you do with that? 13 xAx. jT_h/ vtvipi hy mmn-<,r tvxv/vpinHf urnu+ur\ ni+*jo oKwaanii ocvr/\ivIr/vnngrr 14 ago. Maybe been more than one pit that we 15 separated. 16 Like I say, that's been a long time 17 ago. I don't remember exactly, but I know we 18 took it up to the landfill and put it in -- 19 Q. -- and put it in the pit? 20 A. Put it in the pit, yeah. ADAD21-007507 HARTOLDMON0035629 21 Q. Was the landfill -- did the landfill have 22 liquid in it, or was it like a big hole? 23 What did it look like? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007508 HARTOLDMON0035630 21 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Just a hole. I don't know what the -- you 2 hnrv\ti7__vxThaf if a*7QO metric r\nf r\f* All I knowVV11UI 11 VVUJ 111UUV VUl VI. 3 we roll it up there and we roll -- I don't 4 remember ever putting in liquid oft in it. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. It was all -- 7 Q. Do you remember there ever being like an 8 accumulation, you know? Like if there was a 9 heavy rain, would it fill like a little bit 10 of a pool or lake or anything like that? Do 11 you remember anything? 12 A. May have been a little water sometime when it 13 rcim^rl 1 UlllVU^ hi if VUl. cpa JVV? we* VV rlirliVf U1U11 U rX&VaUIUhyr rrr\ n-n fh^rv* U|7 U1V1V 14 when it rained. 15 Q. Oh, okay. 16 A. Because, you know, the truck had to back up 17 there, and it wasn't -- 18 Q. Was it a dirt road? 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. Made it a little slippery? ADAD21-007509 HARTOLDMON0035631 21 A. Yeah, so we couldn't go up there when it was 22 raining. Later years, you know, they put 23 gravel on the road and all like that, but at 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007510 HARTOLDMON0035632 22 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 that time, we had to, you know, wait until 2 Av\T U1 J VVVUU1V1. 3 Q. Do you ever remember there being any kind of 4 an incinerator up near the landfill? 5 A. No, not to my knowledge. 6 Q. Was there any kind of a fence, I mean, any 7 kind of a fence around the landfill? Or at 8 that time, was there a fence yet? 9 A. I know there was a fence around the landfill, 10 but I can't tell you exactly when they put it 11 around there. But I believe it's always had 12 a gate to keep, you know, other peoples from 13 frAcno ccmrr T tt.ir.L- \\re> VxctA ct U X U11111V VVV U1 wujl iJ 11UU U ^Ul.v 14 around it. 15 Q. Yeah. 16 A. So I guess it had to be a fence. 17 Q. Yeah. You remember that? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. Let me just ask you briefly about the 20 decontamination pit that you were talking ADAD21-007511 HARTOLDMON0035633 21 about that was associated with niran plant. 22 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 23 Q. Did you ever put anything in the 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007512 HARTOLDMON0035634 23 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 decontamination pit? 2 L A.. J. VU11; y VUll. 3 Q. There was just one pit? 4 A. There may have been more. I know everything 5 went into that pit, and it was decontaminated 6 and sold for scrap pipe. May have been 7 another one there. 8 Like I said, that's a long time 9 ago, and I was new there, and I didn't really 10 -- like I say, we was on a time schedule. 11 We didn't have the luxury to look around. 12 We took it to the dump and had to 13 rroF harL- TAi-PParo-nF flicm i+ io gvi l/UVIV. .........1....V....1....V.....1...U........U....1...U.....1...1......1..U......I..O.... X...X...V..../..v...v... 14 Q. Sure. Did you ever actually take it when 15 something was decontaminated, at least you 16 were told it was decontaminated? 17 A. No, never happened. 18 Q. That never happened? You never handled it-- 19 you never handled the moving it from the pit? 20 A. No. All we did was just -- ADAD21-007513 HARTOLDMON0035635 21 Q. How did you put something in it? I mean, 22 what would be the process for putting 23 something in the pit? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007514 HARTOLDMON0035636 24 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Well, if it was something small that we could 2 iiuimiv, uivii riTi iut Av**u/aoc__tVU1i^Vn11w/cV*Vh1a1UAUtrI\VA*7ar 3 rubber shoes. If you went in the mran 4 department, you had to wear rubber shoes or 5 rubber gloves. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. And sometimes we had a rubber apron if we was 8 gonna be physically handling it, but most of 9 the piping was done by the crane and stuff 10 like that. 11 They bundle it up and take it over 12 there, and then -- so it wasn't much hands-on 13 AvavPvvA^nit irvauq1i ejmmuaiiil. 14 Q. Then would you just put it in there? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. Did it look just - how did it look? What 17 did the pit look like? 18 A. I don't know. I know it didn't look as clear 19 as water cause I don't know what kind of 20 decontamination, you know, product it had in ADAD21-007515 HARTOLDMON0035637 21 there. 22 Q. It didn't look like water, or it did look 23 like water? I'm sorry. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007516 HARTOLDMON0035638 25 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Well, it's -- it had a different color 2 tkmr iie*r1 enmp kinrl r\-F arrmrf in OVVWWJV Uivj UOVU UV111V 1\111U VI U^Vlll^ 111 3 there -- but I don't know what it was -- to 4 decontaminate it. They had to have something 5 to decontaminate it, but I don't know what 6 they used. 7 Q. Did you ever see the pit drained for any 8 reason? 9 A. No. 10 Q. It always had some liquid in it as far as 11 you -- 12 A. You have to understand then -- no, I never 13 it R..+ T \i7Cio kmnrr crv\nnr1 i + u. i^ui -i vvuj iiiiiiivu vviii^ ui vuim n. 14 Q. Right. 15 A. I may haul some stuff over there on one 16 month, and it may be another month or two 17 before I even seen the pit again, you know, 18 from a standpoint of what we had to do. 19 We was on a very tight schedule. 20 We didn't have the luxury like we have now ADAD21-007517 HARTOLDMON0035639 21 just riding around through the plant. You 22 had to do what you had to do and then get 23 back to the warehouse and load a truck or 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007518 HARTOLDMON0035640 26 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 something. 2 O T i lnrl^re+cmrl CWra\T XX/^11 T'm rrrxiricr fr\ v^. j. uiiuviomnu. v_ri\uj . ? vii, i m iv 3 we can leave the shipping department now -- 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. -- and move into your time in the aroclor 6 department, which was -- seems like not very 7 long. 8 A. Not very long. 9 Q. Probably won't take us too long get through 10 it. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. What did you do in the aroclor department? 13 A T rlri nrnnprl cmrJ r\ar'\.r^A crr\r*1rr r>r\A hit^h^trwlc I 1. A U1 U111111VU U11U yuvivvu U1UV1U1 U11U 1J 14 and different products, whatever. 15 Q. Drumming and packaging? 16 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 17 Q. So what floor did you work on? 18 A. The bottom floor. 19 Q. The bottom floor? 20 A. Yeah, that's where the packing machine was. ADAD21-007519 HARTOLDMON0035641 21 Q. Okay. Did you work with liquid or solid? 22 A. Solid and liquid. We drummed the liquid in 23 drums and bagged the solid in bags. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007520 HARTOLDMON0035642 27 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. So you worked in the drumming and 2 ilfll UaVUirIltgrr,- iIkeJ +UhlcUi+l flcunllr9. 3 A. Right. Drumming and flaking. 4 Q. Okay. When you were working -- let's first 5 talk about flaking, and then we'll talk about 6 drumming if that's okay. 7 A. Okay. 8 Q. Wlien you worked with flaking, what did you 9 wear at that time? 10 A. Your regular work clothes, hard hat, safety 11 glasses, uniform, gloves, and the safety 12 shoes. 13 Ov^. CwWivrau\7j . Mi n Ki/riAvdu+uVuir-ungrr mmcuk+v^iriiau1i9; 14 A. No. 15 Q. When you're bagging, this is just out of 16 curiosity, is it coming down from over your 17 head? Are you looking up, or are you looking 18 down? 19 A. Wrell, the material came out in a hopper. 20 Q. Okay. ADAD21-007521 HARTOLDMON0035643 21 A. And the bags we had had an open chute on it. 22 You slipped it over the nozzle then hit the 23 vibrator, and you fill it from the hopper by 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007522 HARTOLDMON0035644 28 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 vibrating the material in the bag. And then 2 Atmi j vw if r\ti fh^k cmrl rrh^rl u uii uiv jvuiv uiiu rvvignvu. 3 And then we had a waste drum, I 4 guess an extra drum with material in it. If 5 it was over -- more than a hundred pounds, 6 we'd take some out -- if we needed it -- and 7 we adjusted by that. Then stick another bag 8 on it and push the vibrator and fill it up. 9 Q. Did the vibrator automatically vibrate for a 10 certain amount of time? 11 A. No, we had to manually -- 12 Q. Manually turn it off and on? 13 A T? i rrh+ Tf it \\7dG fl/'vntTi-nrr \\7i fhr\i if fh a I 1. 11 11 VVUJ llUVVlll^ VVU11UUI UIV 14 vibrator, we wouldn't need it, but most of 15 the time, we had to touch the vibrator to get 16 it started flowing out of the hopper into the 17 bag. 18 Q. And, like, I guess my initial question so you 19 stick that sleeve over the hopper? 20 A. Right. ADAD21-007523 HARTOLDMON0035645 21 Q. As you're looking up, holding the sleeve like 22 this -- 23 A. Probably right here (indicating). 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007524 HARTOLDMON0035646 29 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Right here (indicating)? 2 A 'TVia TM7cr\7 if A*7Qe rl^ci rrnArl on vnn L i.. -L VU11. -L 11V VVKA-J 11^ VVUkJ UVJl^llVU LV J VU 3 wouldn't have to be reaching up over your 4 head, everything was designed about -- 5 Q. Right here (indicating)? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. I guess your arms would get tired by the end 8 of the day if you were holding it up like 9 that? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. You guesstimate about -- I assume you do this 12 for two or three or four days, you sort of 13 rrAF d cnncn r\-f dhrmf Iru-irr__ gvi. U JVI1JV VI UOUUl UV VV IVllg 14 A. Right. Well, you had to pat the bag too and 15 feel the bag, so you get a feel what a bag 16 level was by the right poundage. 17 Q. Right. After a while, it sort of becomes-- 18 you're within a few pounds - 19 A. Right. 20 Q. - I assume of a hundred pounds? ADAD21-007525 HARTOLDMON0035647 21 A. A pound or two. 22 Q. Is that right? 23 A. Yeah. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007526 HARTOLDMON0035648 30 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Turn off the vibrator; is that right -- 2 A TTVi-VinVi finrlir'Q+itirr XX. Vll null yniuivuun^ j1 VO 3 Q. -- when you're done? Do you pull the sleeve 4 oft at that point? 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. When you pull off the sleeve, do some little 7 extraneous flakes -- 8 A. Yeah, uh-huh (indicating yes). 9 Q. -- pop out? Do they get on you, your shoes, 10 the ground, any part? Where do they go? 11 A. Well, some of it got on you, but it got on 12 the floor around the hopper. 13 Ov^. Tn1-iiva iiwi rirrVi+ uarivmuiunrul fuViivA uuypvi ; 14 A. Yeah. So at that point, you take your bag 15 and you weigh it? 16 A. Right, and palletize. 17 Q. Palletize? 18 A. On a pallet. There's probably twenty bags to 19 a pallet, something like that. 20 Q. Did you ever get some of the flakes on your ADAD21-007527 HARTOLDMON0035649 21 skin? Did you ever touch them? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. Or did you ever breath some in? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007528 HARTOLDMON0035650 31 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Well, sometimes some of it would get down in 2 y\7rVv1U11r rr1rv\7e ^1V V VU; cmrl U11U -\7r\11 Viqa7> fr\ 111V11 j VW 11U Y V- IV IU1Y.V Ay 7VrU\n1r 3 glove off and get if off your skin, but it 4 didn't cause -- 5 Q. Didn't hurt? 6 A. No. 7 Q. And how would you get it off? Would you just 8 take your gloves off and (indicating), like 9 this? 10 A. Yeah. 11 MS. RUTH: That was totally 12 inaudible. 13 Ov^. \X?i7vr\iui1iruJ -j\7vr\un rv*i\uo|n; ^j7vAuiiir hcmrle uuuuj Fivr-\grri=vMuhi<v=*ir rv hl/miuouhii 14 it off of your -- the material off ofyour 15 hands? 16 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 17 THE WITNESS: Something like that 18 or rub it off, or shake it out ofyour 19 gloves. 20 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Shake it out ofyou gloves? ADAD21-007529 HARTOLDMON0035651 21 A. Yeah. Because we had a waste drum there that 22 it would do that because the more we shake 23 off in the waste drum, the less we have to 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007530 HARTOLDMON0035652 32 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 clean up at the end ofthe shift. 2 O T litirl^rctcmrl Th v^. j. uiiuviomnu. j_//ij/vuivin.. 3 A. Yeah. 4 Q. Okay. Do you think you ever -- I'm just 5 thinking of being out camping and there's a 6 bunch of gnats flying around and occasionally 7 you might breath in a gnat. Do you think 8 occasionally some of the flakes would be 9 flying around and you might breath in a flake 10 or two? 11 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 12 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) It's still okay. 13 A T+ AHfdciVf fl-vaf1. 1.. Al VVUJ11 U UlUU At Art*iU1V Uc\lrUr\Vr*l\Or\lr IIUIVV U1U11 k 14 have that type of flakes. It wasn't powdery. 15 Q. Was it heavier? 16 A. Yeah, it was heavier. 17 Q. Would it fall to the ground pretty 18 immediately -- 19 A. Right. 20 Q. -- rather than -- ADAD21-007531 HARTOLDMONOQ35653 21 A. Rather than dissipate in the air. It 22 wouldn't do that. It would just fall to the 23 ground. They was heavy flakes. It wasn't 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007532 HARTOLDMON0035654 33 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 the powdery material. 2 O Olrcnr *7V + A*7r\n1r1v^. a q. iAmnuri vvnui vvuwiu w -jiwvrwvnir nrrw\nrvur1unrirv i-vfr\ir 3 cleaning up the flakes? When did you clean 4 them up, and how did you clean them up? 5 A. If we're between hoppers -- see, the operator 6 upstairs, he fills the hopper, and if he was 7 between batches, then we clean up around the 8 area because we have to always be doing 9 something, so we either clean up then or 10 cleaned up -- and we had a waste drum, and we 11 used a shovel and a broom to put it in the 12 waste drum. 13 Ov^. CwWivrau\7j . Tj^Airurl \y7vA/uii pv*\vrpv>ir Vir\eA iiujv uiv ui vu ru1vrvv\iv7xnx9; 14 A. Not the area I worked in, no. 15 Q. So did you ever sweep flakes into a sewer 16 system or anything like that? 17 A. No, all that was just concrete floor and 18 swept it in. 19 Q. Okay. And so the gloves that you would shake 20 out and that you expressed you shook out and ADAD21-007533 HARTOLDMON0035655 21 the clothes that you brushed off at the end 22 of the day, what did you -- what did you do 23 with them at the end of the day? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007534 HARTOLDMON0035656 34 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Well, we reused the gloves if it wasn't too 2 )r\ciA XhJe* inQt7 iicp FVia rrlrvtTAC frvr a aazaaV r\r UUU. V T V lliuj1 UOV U1V V V VO 1V1 U VVV1\ VI 3 longer. As long as they was good, we didn't 4 get any other gloves, but if they got so bad, 5 you know, then we would change them out. But 6 normally we reuse them daily. 7 Q. Daily? 8 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 9 Q. How about the clothes? 10 A. Clothes, they went into the laundry when they 11 was too soiled to use. We didn't put them in 12 there every day because some days you didn't 13 grrAvFi Ucmlltj/UfhmlllrlgT rOmil tytnvnu. 14 But, you know, I guess about twice 15 a week we put them in. But if we got -- if 16 they got dirty for some other reason, you 17 know, we put them in there daily. 18 We had enough to rotate that week, 19 so we had enough to rotate that week, so it 20 wasn't a problem with the clothes. ADAD21-007535 HARTOLDMON0035657 21 Q. Do you know if you had to keep your laundry 22 separate from laundry that came from the 23 niran plant? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007536 HARTOLDMON0035658 35 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. No. 2 O Vnu AiAr\H r\r \7r\n rlrxtVf I'-nrwji?*? V^. -L VW UlUil I.J \JL y VW UV11 K. 1\11V vv ; 3 A. As far as I know, it all went into the -- at 4 that time -- 5 Q. Was there one big laundry room? 6 A. Well, at that time this was in 1966, and the 7 plant was not integrated. So all the blacks 8 was laborers, operator laborers, and 9 everybody in that part of the bathhouse we 10 was in, they all went into the same hopper. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. And nobody at that time -- 13 n T^Trvr\r\Ar V^. HUpj7Vl. xvj1 -\7r\n triAcm . 7 WV j V/U 111VUU 14 A. -- dirty clothes hamper. 15 Q. Laundry basket, okay. 16 A. And nobody worked in the niran department 17 because the niran was the operators. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. And so we had a separate laborers' and 20 operators' bathhouse. ADAD21 -007537 HARTOLDMON0035659 21 Q. Okay. So what about the guys from 22 shipping -- 23 A. They all went into -- 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007538 HARTOLDMON0035660 36 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. -- and the maintenance? 2 A __ocrnip Vir\r\r\<ar XX. U1V JU111V liv|^pvi; j VU11. 3 Q. What about the guys who put contaminated pipe 4 into the decontamination pit, those guys? 5 I'm thinking of them as being the laborer 6 shipping department because I think you said 7 you did some of that? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. When you were doing that, would you put your 10 laundry in the same - 11 A. Everybody went in the same. 12 Q. Everybody went in the same? 13 A V<=>ah L X. X VU11. 14 Q. And how did you identify what was your 15 laundry when you got it back? Did you put 16 your name on it? 17 A. By the locker number and your name. 18 Q. Locker number and name. You put it on a tag, 19 or was it embroidered in your shirt? 20 A. It was embroidered in your shirt collar and ADAD21-007539 HARTOLDMON0035661 21 then in your pants. 22 Q. Does the -- do the laundry people put the 23 laundry back into your locker for you? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007540 HARTOLDMON0035662 37 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2 O Qr\ -\7r\n in npvt Aci\t A/r\n nn V^. rviivil j VW VV111V 111 UIV HV/Vl uujl ; y \-> VJ7V11 up 3 you locker, and there's your -- 4 A. They ran about twice a week, I think, or 5 three times a week, and they'd pick up the 6 old dirty laundry and put the fresh clean 7 laundry in your locker. 8 Q. And how many uniforms did you have -- did the 9 average person have? 10 A. Well, over a period of time, you was issued 11 three, and you was issued three every year. 12 Q. Okay. 13 IA1.. UQVr\ Ul UlUl. flilmlliAv, TA pi VL/UL/lj ]r1\1cU\AU dUhOrvVnUfl cJilv/1. 14 Q. Okay. So the very first day you start -- 15 A. You get at least three. 16 Q. So that you've got something to wear if you 17 need to have something else laundered? 18 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 19 Q. Okay. Now, let's switch gears and go back 20 now to drumming. ADAD21 -007541 HARTOLDMON0035663 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. I think we've talked a lot about some of the 23 specific mechanics of drumming, but just real 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007542 HARTOLDMON0035664 38 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 quickly, ifyou want to sum up for me what it 2 mpQnt 1L1VU1U. 3 A. Drumming where we drum the liquid aroclor in 4 different size drums, fifty-five gallon, 5 thirty gallon, different -- whatever the 6 customer had ordered. 7 Q. What were you -- where were you getting the 8 product from? Was it from a hold tank? 9 A. Well, from a hold tank. 10 Q. From a hold tank? 11 A. But as far as my job was, the operators 12 upstairs set everything up. 13 n. nV/izl\auvj . 14 A. And when they told me the tank was ready, I 15 used a -- just a piece of pipe cut out with a 16 nozzle on it, and you inserted it in the 17 drum, put the drum on the scale. 18 Q. So you inserted it in the drum. Does that 19 mean the drum is not otherwise -- 20 A. -- open. It's just - ADAD21-007543 HARTOLDMON0035665 21 Q. Only has a hole big enough to stick the pipe 22 in? 23 A. Right. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007544 HARTOLDMON0035666 39 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. I'm sorry. How did you say you got 2 1 imnrl fr\ cforf9 uiv nv|ui>a iv juu 3 A. We just open the valve. They tell us when 4 they're ready, and then we open the valve and 5 fill the drum on the scale and then move it 6 off the scale and on a pallet. 7 Q. I think that answers my question, which was 8 since you couldn't see inside, how did you 9 know it was full? 10 A. By the weight. 11 Q. By the weight. So you're watching the scale? 12 A. Right. 13 O Tl-iAn of fh<=* fi triA ttrm cpp fhof if hife fl-IA V^. 111V11 Ul UIV U111V j VU JVV U1UI XV lino UIV 14 level, the poundage, I guess, that you want 15 it to be, do you then turn off the valve? 16 A. Turn off the valve. 17 Q. Do you - 18 A. Raise the lance -- 19 Q. Go ahead. 20 A. -- cut off the valve. The valve was closer ADAD21-007545 HARTOLDMON0035667 21 to the nozzle than to the tank, so you only 22 had a small amount to drip out. And then you 23 raise the lance. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007546 HARTOLDMON0035668 40 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 We always used a cloth to catch any 2 r1nr\r\itirr that pomp mif uiui vumv vui. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And then we capped the drum and moved it off. 5 And when the cloth gets saturated, we put it 6 in a waste drum. 7 Q. What did you do with the cloth when it wasn't 8 saturated? Do you stick it in your pocket? 9 A. No. It was always laying on another drum or 10 somewhere in the area close by. 11 Q. Okay. What is your average workday attire 12 when you're doing drumming? 13 A T Tm-fXrin ncin+c cmrl ohirt harA licit oafhti; 1 1.. WlUiUllll, U11U Ollll IIUIU 11UI, JUlVlj 14 glasses, and safety shoes and gloves. 15 Q. Okay. I'm speculating here, so I need to ask 16 you: Do you get more of the liquid aroclor 17 on your gloves than you would the solid? 18 MR. KELLY: During which operation? 19 MS. RUTH: The equivalent, the 20 bagging versus the drumming. ADAD21 -007547 HARTOLDMON0035669 21 THE WITNESS: Maybe a little. If 22 it gets on your gloves, it's going to stay on 23 it. 2001 PARK PLACE SLTTE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007548 HARTOLDMON0035670 41 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 But the key to that is making sure 2 11 cic Arcrnrtt^A Vw^frvtv* t/rtn to\r( if mif uiv U.HW io uiuuivu uvivi v j vu luiw n vur 3 of there, the drum. 4 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Was that a problem maybe for 5 new guys or some people or some people -- I 6 mean did you ever feel too rushed or -- 7 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 8 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) That's okay when he objects to 9 the form. 10 A. Wrell, we had a quota to get. 11 Q. You had a quota? 12 A. Yeah. 13 n xx/t. of T\7r\n1rl Viorm^-n i-PT/r\n HirliVf t-n^=*f wrxirr V^. T T 11UI. VVUU1U XX j VJU U1VU1 k lllVVk y C/Ul 14 quota? 15 A. The boss want to -- you had to explain what 16 happened. If you had a valid excuse, you 17 know, like say the operator didn't get the 18 material ready on time or you was out of 19 drums or something like that, but he did want 20 an explanation on what happened. ADAD21-007549 HARTOLDMON0035671 21 Q. Was it a reasonable quota? 22 A. Yeah, it was reasonable. 23 Q. It was reasonable? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007550 HARTOLDMON0035672 42 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Yeah. 2 O T'lirl cnrnp npnnltrrvi mciVinrr mmtci V^. 1V1U JV111V pVV|^IV HUT V U VUU1V lliuivill^ V^UV 3 regularly? 4 A. No. 5 Q. No? 6 A. No. But just if we didn't get it, you have 7 to have a reason why we didn't get the quota 8 that week. 9 And you had to be careful about 10 waste too, so that's why we were very careful 11 not to generate any waste because, you know, 12 they didn't -- they explained to us the 13 mofpnol rmoo i-n Am lt-n not An -fl r\r\-r 111UIV11U1 XXX U1V UX UXX.....1....1...U.....I.....V...J..1...1.....l...i..i..v.. 1....1....W.......X... . 14 So they was very particular back during that 15 time. 16 Q. Okay. Basically because they didn't want to 17 waste product they could otherwise sell? 18 A. Right. 19 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 20 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) At the end -- at the end of ADAD21-007551 HARTOLDMON0035673 21 the day, is there any -- despite your best 22 efforts -- is there still a certain amount of 23 liquid aroclor that gets on the ground or on 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007552 HARTOLDMON0035674 43 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 the scale, I guess? 2 A Amr ctvi 11 harl fr\ pIpqh if nn of fhr rmrl r\-F xx. x xnjr vvv iiuvx iv vivuii n ui uiv vnu vi 3 the day. We took rags and wiped everything 4 down and put those in the waste drum. I 5 mean, we had to clean the area up at the end 6 of each shift. 7 Q. Was it a wet rag or dry rag that you'd use? 8 A. Dry rag. 9 Q. Dry rag? 10 A. Yeah. And if we get any liquid material on 11 it, it went in waste drums. See, we had two 12 drums that we always, you know, put all the 13 __-fXr fhr> flalri-no- tvicif<ario1 \\7<* harl o rim 1m iVI UIV 11U1V1110 UlUlVUUi, VVV 11UU U Ul Ulll 14 for that and then other drum for all that 15 stuff. 16 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). Did you ever use 17 water or a hose to clean that area? 18 A. Not in the area where I worked at, we didn't. 19 Q. So neither the flaking area nor the drumming 20 area, did you? ADAD21-007553 HARTOLDMON0035675 21 A. No. 22 Q. Were they adjacent to one another? 23 A. Right, they was all in an open area. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007554 HARTOLDMON0035676 44 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. Was this the ground floor; right? 2 A Ttw=> rrrr\iinr1 fl r\r\r t*irrh+ x x. x iiv vunu iiwi ? n^in. 3 Q. Would you say that -- how often would you 4 change your gloves when you worked in the 5 liquid aroclor as opposed to -- 6 A. When the gloves get saturated -- if they get 7 material on it and it made a mark on the 8 drums -- 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. -- then we would have to because we had to 11 stencil the product. We had to stencil 12 whatever the product was on the drum, and we 13 ha A __wzhi+A 11UU IV UUV V M1V Will IV +r\r\ r\-F fliA U1V V/1 U1V 14 drum was white where we put the black stencil 15 on. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. And we had to make sure it was clean. So if 18 we start handling the drum and we've left 19 some mark or something on it, then we changed 20 and got a fresh glove. ADAD21-007555 HARTOLDMON0035677 21 Q. What was that process like changing out your 22 gloves? 23 A. Well, we went to the chief operator and told 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007556 HARTOLDMON0035678 45 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 them -- basically, what we had, we had a 2 fl dVl nrr r\ait* r\-F rr1rv\rkc cmrl a rlriltnmirm noir r\-f jyuil VI ^1W U1IV U U1 UllUlllllg ^Ull VI 3 gloves. 4 Q. So you kept two separate pair of gloves? 5 A. Right. Because you didn't want to -- because 6 sometime we did both in the same day. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. So you didn't want to get the oily material 9 on the flaking bag and, you know, get it all 10 soiled up. 11 Q. So normally you would end up with some oily 12 material on your gloves? 13 iAi.. 1j.?vi ic^t)irn\+? a-vwviau-nutncui1n1-\jr . 14 Q. Eventually. 15 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 16 Q. Would you change -- if it was a -- what would 17 it take for you to decide you needed a new 18 pair of gloves? 19 A. Well, sometimes they get tore. 20 Q. Tore. ADAD21-007557 HARTOLDMON0035679 21 A. And then after they get so soiled that, you 22 know -- they was cloth gloves because you 23 didn't use leather for handling the material 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007558 HARTOLDMON0035680 46 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 because most of it was hot. 2 n TTVi-Vmli finrlir'Q+itirr vii nuii yniuivuun^ J1 y. 3 A. So- 4 Q. Okay. I want to just talk briefly about your 5 time in the biphenyl department. 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. I know it seems silly to talk briefly about 8 twenty-five years of your life or whatever it 9 was, but to the extent that we can, what did 10 do you in the biphenyl department? 11 A. Well, when I first went to the biphenyl 12 department, I went to the therminol 13 AA-nf ie frcmcfiar -flinrl UV|/U1 VV111V11 liJ 11VUI UUllJXVl 11U1U, 14 where we took the santowax that was produced 15 in another part of the department and 16 hydrogenated it into therminol 66 or the 17 different therminol brand. 18 Q. Okay. Do you use aroclor at all in the 19 production at that time of therminol? 20 A. No. ADAD21-007559 HARTOLDMON0035681 21 Q. No. Can you just briefly draw for me a 22 picture of what the biphenyl department 23 looked like? You can use circles and squares 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007560 HARTOLDMON0035682 47 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 to say this was here, you know, this is where 2 A\A fhprmmnl met cn T VVV U1U UlVlUUUVlj J WJl Lv J. 1V11VV* VV11UI 3 different operations were going on and 4 where. 5 A. (Witness drawing.) This is the tube unit 6 area. And these the biphenyl santowax 7 columns, and it goes down to the therminol 8 T-66 area. 9 Q. Would you call that what it is? 10 A. This is the biphenyl column, and that's 11 santowax column. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A T1-ia +iiKa linif lr^c cmrl hirxVi^-mrl I 1. 111V kUL/V Ulllk J-/1 OWUVVJ V1UUV CXI XV* L/ipilVllj 1 14 which it goes to -- 15 Q. Can you write those things? I'm sorry. It 16 will help though later. 17 A. This is crude and biphenyl. Crude and 18 biphenyl produce off the tube unit, goes 19 through these sump tanks, which is the 20 storage tank for the crude and biphenyl. ADAD21-007561 HARTOLDMON0035683 21 We pumped the material to the 22 biphenyl column, which we take the biphenyl 23 material off. The biphenyl they used as a 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007562 HARTOLDMON0035684 48 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 dye carrier and stuff like that. 2 O Ac o -vx/Viaf*? Ac q . u u vviiwi ; i w u \*y r*om vui nvi ; 3 A. Yeah, that's one. Anyway, it would go to the 4 santowax column -- 5 Q. Would the biphenyl column always go to the 6 santowax column or -- 7 A. Yeah, it would have to because you separate 8 these two materials. Crude and biphenyl is 9 biphenyl and santowax. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. You separated biphenyl. 12 Q. What have you put into the tube units? What 13 ttAiir mifidl Atrfo? ui v jf vui niuiui iiigi vuiviwu ; 14 A. Benzene. 15 Q. Just benzene? 16 A. Benzene. 17 Q. Can you do a little arrow that says benzene 18 in or something like that? 19 A. Okay. Through the tubes. It goes through 20 the tubes. ADAD21-007563 HARTOLDMON0035685 21 Q. And these are sump tanks? Would you identify 22 those as sump tanks? 23 A. (Witness drawing.) 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007564 HARTOLDMON0035686 49 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Just it makes a lot of sense while we're 2 rlicr'iieeinrr if cmrl +t> if T rrr\ cmH 1r\r\V UlOVUOOlll^ J.l? U11U 111V11 11 -L VWV1\ U11U 1W1\ 3 at it in a week, it's not going to mean 4 anything to me. 5 A. (Witness drawing.) 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. And this santowax column is -- 8 Q. What's happening in these columns? 9 A. Just separating the - by temperature and 10 reflux, which is reflux, that's just liquid 11 biphenyl from -- you're separating the crude 12 and biphenyl. The -- 13 O Anri fhi=k-\r fAm-n^rafilr^ fr\ fl-iA v^. i inu uivj uovei ivm^/viuiui v iv uu mv 14 separation? 15 A. Right. 16 Q. How are you heating then? Is it heating or 17 cooling? 18 A. You have a furnace -- you have a furnace that 19 goes -- that material that circulates through 20 the furnace coil where it heat. ADAD21-007565 HARTOLDMON0035687 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. And then the vapor is cooled by flowing 23 through a condenser which is cooled by a 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007566 HARTOLDMON0035688 50 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 tower water. 2 O To 11")o f'Mn/liMicr'r r\n +r\r\9 v^. xj iiiv wimviwvi uii ; 3 A. Condenser is setting on the very top of the 4 column. 5 And then from there it flows to a 6 receiver, and from there it goes to the 7 loading dock. I'm sorry. Receiver to the 8 storage tanks and from storage tank to the 9 loading dock. 10 Q. Okay. Where does the santowax column come 11 into play then if it comes off the condenser? 12 A. All right. The bottom -- 13 v^. nrr \X/Tva+ are* mr^7inrr9 t t nui j ^vum^ luivvu ; ctuui ui v vvv inuviiig: 14 A. Biphenyl. You take the biphenyl off. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. And the bottom - what's left is santowax. 17 See crude biphenyl is biphenyl and santowax. 18 So crude santowax -- 19 Q. - stays in the system? 20 A. Crude santowax goes to the santowax column. ADAD21-007567 HARTOLDMON0035689 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. And that's where the -- 23 Q. Can we call this a condenser just so I know? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007568 HARTOLDMON0035690 51 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. (Witness drawing.) Goes to the santowax 2 nr\1ntnn contmirov P TTirhiz-'h io cotna qc V..V....1...U.....1...1....U....1...............n.....v.i.v. o...u.....i..n.....u.......v............. _L VV111V11 1J JU111V UO 3 refined santowax. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And then the bottom of the santowax column is 6 santotar/9. 7 Q. Okay. You've got your crude. Does your 8 crude go into this column? 9 A. Crude goes into this column. 10 Q. What happens in that column? 11 A. By pressure and temperature, the santowax R 12 is taken off. 13 nv;- (~\lr ct\T w ivuj . T-Irv\i7 r1r\ vah__to T7r\irr nrAcciita A A\_/ VV WV JUU VV11UU IO j UW1 piL 'VJ..O.....U....1.....V. 14 source? 15 A. The -- it goes through a furnace. We use a 16 vacuum. 17 Q. Use a vacuum and a furnace? 18 A. Right. The furnace heats it, and the vacuum 19 pulls the light material over the column -- 20 Q. Okay. ADAD21-007569 HARTOLDMON0035691 21 A. -- and down to a receiver. 22 Q. And the light material is this -- 23 A. Right. This santowax R. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007570 HARTOLDMON0035692 52 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. 2 A -n A cnnpr mo+pncil ATizViir'Vi ic L11U U1V 11VU V 1V1 111UIV1 1U1, .......1...1...1...V....1..1......I..t..J.......U....1...V. 3 bottom, is santotar/9. 4 Q. Okay. Which goes where now? 5 A. Santowax R go to T-66 where it's 6 hydrogenated. The santowax R is hydrogenated 7 to the finished product which is therminol 8 66. 9 Q. Okay. What happens to santotar/9? 10 A. Now or then? What I'm doing now? 11 Q. Well, tell me then. This is in the mid '70s. 12 Then is the mid '70s? 13 1?irrl^f VxctA +\x7r\ r\r\nr1c r\n oi+a hn+ t I V 11UU IVW ^/UllUO V/ll J...l.k....V.....,......L.../..U.....l. 14 santotar/9 went to the santotar/9 pond. And 15 at that time, we was taking that S9, and it 16 was going to another process which was a Q 17 still. 18 Q. Back then - now it goes to this pond; is 19 that right? 20 A. No, it doesn't go anywhere on site now. ADAD21 -007571 HARTOLDMON0035693 21 Q. Anywhere on site? 22 A. I thought you wanted me to explain then. 23 Q. I did. I'm sorry. I don't understand the 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007572 HARTOLDMON0035694 53 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 ponds then if it goes to the Q still. 2 A Ttw=> ccm+r\+ar/Q vji7*m+ +r\ rAit XX. X LIV OUlllVlUl/ S VVVlll IV U1V llivn ^11. 3 Q. A melt? 4 A. Yeah. This is then. Okay? 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Okay. The santotar/9 bottom went to melt pit 7 or went to the S9 pump. 8 Q. Where are these in relation to the biphenyl 9 building? Are they inside? 10 A. No, they're way across the road from it. 11 This is a long way from the building. 12 Q. How does it get from -- in a second. I'm 13 rrrunrT ach- \;ah ohrv\\7 r\n mcm ^Vlll^ IV 1X0XV j vu I.V J11VVV 111V VVUV1V Vll U1UI 14 it is -- but how does it get from your 15 biphenyl building to the pond or the melt 16 pit? 17 A. It's pumped. 18 Q. It's pumped? 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. Is it pumped above ground or below ground. ADAD21-007573 HARTOLDMON0035695 21 A. Above ground. 22 Q. Above ground. 23 A. Yeah. Everything above ground. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007574 HARTOLDMON0035696 54 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. 2 A Anri th^n -\7rvn vx7cm+ fr\ 1rnrv\ai ciKmit A*7ha+ -\\7& rlirl L i.. L11U U1V11 J WCt VVU1U. IU 1Y11V VV UUVUl VVllWt V*V U1U 3 in the '70s. We made another product then 4 called WEM then, and we took the 6y trom the 5 melt pit and -- 6 Q. Or the pond? If it went to the pond did it 7 stay in the pond for all eternity? 8 A. No. 9 Q. So what went -- 10 A. When the melt pit couldn't handle it, it went 11 to the pond. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Anri -\Ti7(=k +r\r\L- if cmrl r1iofi11=*r1 if fr'v ecmfrwt7civ i 111U VV V IUU1V 1U UilU U1JU11VU U l.w juinwvu/v 14 Q, and we hydrogenated the santowax Q to WCM, 15 which is another product we sold. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. At that time, the bottom was so valuable that 18 even the England plant would need -- because 19 England plant needed all S9 they could. This 20 was a good seller then. ADAD21-007575 HARTOLDMON0035697 21 When these -- okay. Another 22 question. It went to the S9. This was the 23 S10, santotar/10. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007576 HARTOLDMON0035698 55 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Do you have two different types of bottom 2 at vx7r\n Irl r'rxm^ rU'IV uiur vvuuiu vvmv vn; 3 A. Yeah, because we didn't have no use for 4 this. When you distill it here, then it went 5 to there. That was waste. 6 Q. Okay. That was actually going to be my 7 question -- 8 A. That was waste. 9 Q. -- was did you have any waste from this 10 distillation process, and you did. It was 11 S10? 12 A. Santotar/10. 13 O Qlfl oa-ntr\tar/1 v^. u i juiikurui/ i v : 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. But now you've got a melt pit and an S9 pond? 16 A. Right. We had then. 17 Q. I'm sorry. Then, in 1975. How did you get 18 your S9 from either the melt pit or the S9 19 pond to the still? 20 A. We got it from the melt pit with a pump. ADAD21 -007577 HARTOLDMON0035699 21 pumped it to the still. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. And when the process was down and we needed 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007578 HARTOLDMON0035700 56 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 some S9, we contracted a guy at that came out 2 cmH tr\r\lr hie cmrl rJurr mcti&n a) r\n+ r\-F uiiu iwiv uij 1,/uviviiw uiiu uu^ murviiui vwi vi 3 S9 and put it back into the melt pit and 4 melted it up. So we could use it even when 5 this process was -- 6 Q. So the S9 is then a solid and not a liquid; 7 is that right? 8 A. It was a liquid when it went in, but it 9 solidified pretty quick. It was a solid when 10 he removed it here. 11 Q. Okay. Is this a lined pond? Is it a lined 12 pond? Is there any lining? Is it a hole? 13 To a hr\1#^9 u uiv yunw u nuiv: 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Earthen hole? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Is there any cement or any lining? 18 A. I don't know. I don't remember. It was 19 already there when I came to the department. 20 Q. And so you'd contract -- do you remember who ADAD21-007579 HARTOLDMON0035701 21 you contracted to? 22 A. Bill Hall. 23 Q. Bill Hall? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007580 HARTOLDMON0035702 57 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Yeah. 2 O T'hat'e th#* ncitnp rxf*rm? r\1 A hr\ec T'm cnrp V^. X 11UI J HIV 11U111V VI llij VIV* 1 111 JU1 V 3 it's not the same guy. 4 Bill Hail would come in with a 5 backhoe. Pardon my ignorance on this. Is a 6 backhoe a big -- 7 A. -- bucket on a tractor like. 8 Q. Bucket on a tractor? 9 A. Yeah. Scoop on one end and a bucket on that 10 end. 11 Q. What would he - what would he -- I guess my 12 question is: Is he scooping out this S9 from 13 uiv yviiw ; 14 A. Right. It's crystallized. I mean, it's 15 solid. 16 Q. Does he keep it in his little scooper and 17 truck on over to the melt pit? 18 A. It's right next to it. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. It's a short distance. ADAD21-007581 HARTOLDMON0035703 21 Q. So you just kind of U-turn around? 22 A. Well, no, he had about, I guess, twenty-five 23 or thirty feet. Somewhere like that. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007582 HARTOLDMON0035704 58 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Is the melt pit open? Is it an open pit? 2 A TVTrx if harl a \^A r\n if h^^anc#* if ha A h^afinrr x x. x iVj u nuu u nu vn n l/vvuuov u nuu uvuuii^ 3 coils in it because we had to melt it back 4 up. 5 Q. So that it could continue to be pumped? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. Okay. And is it being heated by the same 8 furnace that's heating -- 9 A. No, it's heated by steam. 10 Q. Heated by steam? 11 A. Steam coils. 12 Q. Steam coils. 13 A V<=>ah XX. X VU11. 14 Q. Okay. Now, if we could just look at 15 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 27. It's a tough one to 16 mark, but if we can just look at Plaintiffs' 17 Exhibit 27 and you could tell me -- well, two 18 things. Where is the biphenyl department, 19 and where is the - where are these -- was 20 the melt pit and the pond? This was took in ADAD21-007583 HARTOLDMON0035705 21 1969, this map, this picture, and -- 22 A. Wait a minute. Let me find where I am. 23 MR. PECK: There's the aroclor 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007584 HARTOLDMON0035706 59 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 unit. 2 TTTP WTTXTFQS- Ttiic ic L111J 1 l_> I^UllUil 3 twenty-eight here. 4 IVLK. PhCK: t hat's the warehouse. 5 That big white building's the warehouse. 6 THE WITNESS: Let's see if I'm in 7 the right place. 8 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Well, let's figure out. Where 9 are you coming in from the morning? 10 MR. KELLY: This is what is now 11 Clydesdale here (indicating). 12 MR. PECK: Before 202. 13 THF \X/T I \TTh QQ nircn; T*m -\n7i+h trnii X. _t_ I I / Mill U-/UU . VyiVUJ . X 111 VV1U1 j UU 14 I just had to find out where I was. This is 15 the railroad tracks. 16 MR. KELLY: North side. 17 THE WITNESS: Come in here. And 18 biphenyl department is right in here 19 (indicating). That's one of the storage 20 tanks. This part is biphenyl. ADAD21-007585 HARTOLDMON0035707 21 MS. RUTH: I'm going to ask Adam to 22 help me with my direction. Is that the 23 southeast? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007586 HARTOLDMON0035708 60 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 MR. PECK: Yeah, that's southeast. 2 mu. R-Lx_T\_yTxTjH.j.'. Rjurv\iru^pvri manrgmiulitvru\n OOO 3 southeast comer? 4 MR. PECK: Old Highway 78 - yeah. 5 THE WITNESS: This is the tube unit 6 furnace here (indicating). 7 Q. You want to use -- I don't know what the best 8 way to mark that thing is. You want to use a 9 dot like a round dot because we put an "X" 10 on -- 11 MR. PECK: Circle it. 12 THE WITNESS: This is building 13 hi/pnh/.AirrR+ Thie io +iiK^ nmf -PumcK^A i vv vnrj vigil' ..m..o. x- u- .i..i..i...v.........k....u....u.....v.......u......n.....u........x.....u.....i...i..i..u.....v...v 14 (Witness drawing.) 15 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Draw an arrow off to the side 16 and just say it's the biphenyl unit. That 17 might be the best way. 18 A. (Witness drawing.) 19 Q. Okay. And then from there, where are your S9 20 S10 pits and your melt pit or ponds and pits? ADAD21-007587 HARTOLDMON0035709 21 A. Right here (indicating). 22 MR. PECK: Highlighted in yellow? 23 THE WITNESS: Yeah, they're right 2001 PARK PLACE SLTTE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007588 HARTOLDMON0035710 61 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 in here straight across the road. 2O v^. A/To "Rn+VA A t*A+Va\7 n\ve*ciA\T -\7a11 rvtx7AH* ic irj.o. -xx-x*xxiy i xi v ixxvj un vuuj j vxxu vr vw, 10 3 that right? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Would you have ever heard it called Clegorn 6 Lake? 7 A. Yeah, that's what I -- I heard that phrase 8 when I first come to work over there. 9 Basically the same what they call -- 10 Q. Is Clegorn Lake S10 or S9? 11 A. Well, I don't know because I don't know which 12 one was there first, and I don't know what 13 nh-aoA ^/llUOV -nrh An e+cj-rt-Arl ncinrr +hie QQ fr\r VVllVXl uxvjl JlUX IVU Uk7XXXg UXXO u-/ xux 14 QC may have been later, and then they found 15 out they needed another pond to put the 16 bottom off there, but all I know both of 17 these was here. 18 Q. Okay. So you're not sure if Clegorn Lake was 19 S10 or S9? 20 A. No, I don't. ADAD21-007589 HARTOLDMON0035711 21 Q. Okay. But Clegorn Lake is one of the two 22 pits? 23 A. Yeah, that's what I heard it called when I 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007590 HARTOLDMON0035712 62 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 first went over there. 2 O All nrrht r*cm mot nnt v^. i in ii^in. nxu^1 w vvv vuii j ulm. uiiuvinvuui 3 here Clegom Lake and then just put AKA S9 4 and S10. 5 MR. PECK: S9orS10. 6 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Okay. Thanks. All right. 7 Now we'll finish this up. And what do you do 8 now with your S9? Do you even have S10 9 anymore? Do you get SI0 anymore? 10 A. No. 11 Q. So you just get the -- 12 A. Well, we get -- we don't make Q anymore, 13 n nii/vauvj . 14 A. What we do with S9 now? 15 Q. Yeah. 16 A. S9 now go into a storage tank instead of you 17 go from the santowax column -- 18 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 19 A. - to a storage tank. S9 storage tank. 20 Q. We probably need to date these somehow or ADAD21-007591 HARTOLDMONOQ35713 21 write present and past. Let me do that here. 22 Current practice. S9 storage tank. 23 Past practice. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007592 HARTOLDMON0035714 63 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Do you know what year you switched 2 frr*m maVirirr Atrviir tr\ nr\+9 T'lrx -t/rvii V-nry!*? ii win muivui^ y vui v t wm iv nvi: -is v j vu miv v v 3 when you shut down? 4 A. We lost customers probably -- quit making 5 that probably about in the '80s, the late 6 '80s. 7 Q. Late '80s? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. Okay. I cut you off a little before. You 10 were saying S9 was such a hot commodity that 11 the guys in England couldn't get enough of 12 it. 13 A* - .............KU....a.V...^VoUhUoJVa W--T/^Am/T \\v7vCcioo u> nhrv\Fi ovnvtiniiirminwrlihii?j .oU...1.f....fU.V...1.v..U.a..1.f 14 time. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. We were saving all the S9 we could. That's 17 why we take it out of this pit and melt it up 18 and reuse it because we needed the product. 19 Q. Would you ever ship some of the S9 that you 20 had to your England facility? ADAD21-007593 HARTOLDMON0035715 21 A. No. 22 Q. All of it stayed on site at the time? 23 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007594 HARTOLDMON0035716 64 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. What happens with the S9 now that goes 2 tr\ q c+r\rarrk forth-9 iv u oivi u^v i-uiii\ : 3 A. It's used as a mix for boiler fuel. 4 Q. Actually, let me fully circle this so we can 5 separate out -- 6 A. For right now what we have is the boiler is 7 moved up to steam boiler. It's moved up to 8 polyphenol area from across the plant. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. And because we use -- natural gas is one 11 resource, but all the waste -- this S9, and 12 I'm going to -- 13 O Anri io rvtl"iAr ti/ciofp v^. i viu xij uiviv vuivi vvukjrv 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. - in addition to the S9? Is it ail stored 16 in the same storage tank? 17 A. You got a mix tank, and you got a feed tank. 18 Let me put the S9 storage tank here. I'll do 19 it better. What we doing with the S9 now. 20 Q. Okay. Would we be better with a clean sheet ADAD21-007595 HARTOLDMON0035717 21 of paper? 22 A. To do the boiler on? 23 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). I'm afraid we're 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007596 HARTOLDMON0035718 65 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 going to get confused. And I can't keep 2 r-xarfiPirminrr fViinrrc r\-pp anrl Virvr\i-nrr if mal/ac uiiii^o on uiiu ..........1..1..U...1.VVO 3 sense. 4 MR. WRIGHT: Do you want to mark 5 that one? 6 MS. RUTH: Yeah, I'm just titling 7 it. 8 Q. This says past and present overview of the 9 biphenyl department. Are you comfortable 10 with that as the tile? 11 A. Well, that's partly, but it's, I guess, 12 basically the process from the tube unit to 13 onmn fcmL-e +r\ hir\h<^-nx/1 r*rJn-mn U1V IU1UYJ l.vy U1V L/iyilVllj X W1W11U1 IV 14 santowax column. 15 Q. So you want to put process on the bottom of 16 that? Should I identify that -- we're 17 identifying a process? Would that make you 18 happy? 19 A. It's fine like it is. 20 Q. We'll mark it as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 29. ADAD21-007597 HARTOLDMON0035719 21 22 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 29 was 23 marked for identification and 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007598 HARTOLDMON0035720 66 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 copy of same is attached 2 11V1 viv.y 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. So what you want on here is what happens to 5 the S9? 6 Q. What happens to S9 now from your storage 7 tank? 8 A. (Witness drawing.) Can I do it this way? 9 The S9 from santowax column either go to the 10 S9 storage tank or down to the C storage 11 tank, which is a larger S9 storage tank. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A* A..L...1..r...1\..A.1..V...1...-..Pi...l.r.U..r..k...t.v.l..l.t..l.....U.....1....V....1V. i- f- rmc^c +rur\ uiv imiiii/vi +moiunvl/. 14 Q. Do you have a mix tank that's also attached 15 to the C storage tank? 16 A. All it's attached together on this line. 17 Q. So it would come back up the same -- so -- 18 A. It would come back up to this tank. 19 Q. First? 20 A. First. And then go to the mix tank. ADAD21-007599 HARTOLDMON0035721 21 Q. So it would come back up from the C storage 22 tank into the S9 storage tank to go to the 23 mix tank? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007600 HARTOLDMON0035722 67 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Right. 2 n Tf* if harl k^r-i r\iltnna^ -fr/'vm cantm^-ov AX 11 11UU I^VVll I^UllL^VU .1...1....V.......l..l...l.....U.....1...V... J.U.....1...1....1...V......V....V....U..../.1. 3 column to the C storage tank? 4 A. Right. 5 Q. And can go to either storage tank? 6 A. Right. All right. It goes to a mix tank 7 and -- 8 Q. What's happening in the mix tank? 9 A. That's where we're taking the S9, and I'll 10 have to do another tank here. The end 11 storage tank. Any liquid waste that we have 12 from any of the product and return fluid -- 13 O Tn +h<=* r\rr*rJi ir+e r\r cirwr v^. -in uiv i_/i|^n^/iijr i vuuvu vi unj 14 A. Any of the liquid product -- 15 Q. Could be outside biphenyl department? 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. It goes into the end tanks. 19 Q. And just gets mixed? They all get mix - 20 A. And from the end tanks -- ADAD21-007601 HARTOLDMON0035723 21 Q. Is that right, sir? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. It all just gets mixed together? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007602 HARTOLDMON0035724 68 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Yeah. 2 n oVcia; 3 A. This is the feed tank. Okay. Because we 4 have to have the same viscosity in the mix 5 tank where we can feed the boiler that 6 blended fuel. 7 Q. Where is your end storage tank? 8 A. Next to 202. The last tank -- the three 9 biggest tanks near 202, it's the last tank. 10 It had a loading dock -- I don't know where 11 you've been -- have you been by the plant? 12 Q. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 13 A T1-ia 1qo+ r\np -\i7i+h ] r\ciAvnrr Ar\r*Vr npvf I 1.. 111V lUOU V11V VY1U1 U1V lUUUill^ UWIV 11V/VI uv 14 202, that's the end tank. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. And also when we don't have any ends, we use 17 fuel oil. 18 Q. Okay. Do you keep fuel oil in the same 19 storage tank you keep the ends in? 20 A. Yeah. And also return T-66 that the customer ADAD21-007603 HARTOLDMON0035725 21 done used. 22 Q. Yeah. 23 A. And -- 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007604 HARTOLDMON0035726 69 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. If you get returned T-66 from 2A L 1. r\n+ that in miv ictr\]r cmrl mol-p a vvv pur UlUl ill U1V llll/l IU111\ UUU 111U1VV u 3 blend. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And then from the feed tank to the boiler. 6 The boiler couldn't burn S9 by itself. 7 Q. I see. 8 A. So we used you all the end, so there's no -- 9 there's really no residue kept on the plant. 10 Everything is burned for fuel oil except 11 for - 12 Q. What do you use your boiler for? 13 A Qtpom 1 1.. UlVUlll. 14 Q. Steam? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. So is the boiler the same thing as the 17 furnace? 18 A. Not the same as the furnace. Boiler is 19 separate. 20 Q. Okay. ADAD21-007605 HARTOLDMON0035727 21 A. It's to generate the steam for the plant. 22 Q. Okay. Let's identify this as the present 23 process for S9. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007606 HARTOLDMON0035728 70 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. These ponds no longer on site anymore nor the 2 m^lf r\i + '\Tr\-n> r\-Fthat io rm oit^ om/mnrp 111V11 JJU, 1 1V11V VI U1UI IO Vll ijl IV Uilj 111V1 V. 3 Q. What happened to those, do you know? 4 A. All the material that was left in it was 5 taken out of it. 6 Q. And put where? Do you know where it was put? 7 A. In the landfill. 8 Q. In the landfill? 9 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 10 Q. Do you know what year that was? 11 A. In the '80s. The same time the boiler moved 12 up there, late '80s or '90. Probably '90 13 rwv\hahhr thlaet timp wre* noArl th<=* lanrlftll VL/UL/lj U1V 1UOI U111V VV V UOW U1V 1U11U1111. 14 '89 or '90 last time we had those on site. 15 Q. Okay. Just for the record -- 16 A. When we moved the boiler so we could start - 17 when we moved the boiler that used all the S9 18 and all for blended fuel, and all of that was 19 taken out -- 20 Q. Okay. ADAD21-007607 HARTOLDMON0035729 21 A. --and covered up or dug out and everything 22 was hauled up to the landfill, and new 23 gravels and dirt and all was put in. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007608 HARTOLDMON0035730 71 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. For the record, let's say that Mr. Chatman's 2 r1t*cmi7irwT r\f* nrpeptit nrnnpec fr\r liomrr QQ UlUVVlll^ VI U1V VOV1K |^1 WVJU 1V1 UOlll^ 3 is marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 30. 4 5 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 30 was 6 marked for identification and 7 copy of same is attached 8 hereto.) 9 Q. Okay. Do you remember you talked about the 10 fact that you sometimes get returned product 11 for the T-66? Sometime customers will return 12 products? 13 A V<=>ah I 1. X VU11. 14 Q. Do you remember when you were working in the 15 aroclor department -- and this may have been 16 beyond the scope of what you did, but you 17 might have seen it -- whether or not there 18 was ever any return aroclor product? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Did anybody ever return product? ADAD21-007609 HARTOLDMON0035731 21 A. Not that I know of. 22 Q. Not that you know of. Did you ever in your, 23 maybe in your working with the landfill 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007610 HARTOLDMON0035732 72 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 before going to the aroclor department, did 2 Atmi Vrirw\7 r\-F civr\c*\r\r r\rr\r1i tr\ j VU V V VI 1Y11WV VI Vll 0|^VV1\ W1 VV1V1 pi WUVl rv 3 be brought to the landfill, whether it be 4 solid or drummed? 5 A. Now, we did haul stuff from the aroclor 6 department. Any waste we was called, you 7 know, to take it to the landfill, and that's 8 what we did from different departments, so -- 9 Q. But you don't know at that time whether or 10 not it was off speck product that might have 11 been dmmmed or bagged, you just know -- 12 A. No, all I knew whether it was waste or 13 \\7<* mo+ w/e* v\7ao nckW&A fr\ ir\ir\r if V V11UIV V V-X ? VVV J UO V VVV VVUO VU11W IV piviv X l. 14 up and take it to the landfill, and that's 15 what we did. That was our job. 16 Q. When you were -- I guess when you were 17 working particularly in the drumming 18 department and possibly you had some window 19 in the chlorinator area, did you ever see a 20 time where they hosed or sewered off speck -- ADAD21 -007611 HARTOLDMONOQ35733 21 A. No, I'm sorry. I didn't. 22 Q. -- aroclor? Okay. 23 A. This was a solid floor. Like I say, we swept 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007612 HARTOLDMON0035734 73 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 up the flaking, and we wiped up. In my area, 2 t'l/'Ywz T rlrm't I'-nrwji/A*7Via+ __ 11V VV . i UVU l 1U1VV* VV11UI uivj 3 Q. Didn't know what they did in the chlorinator 4 area? 5 A. (Witness shakes head.) 6 Q. Okay. I think we're in our final -- and part 7 of the reason I asked you to go through the 8 biphenyl is -- actually, it was Doug Rich who 9 volunteered you. So if you want to give him 10 a hard time. He said it was you that could 11 explain that the best. 12 Real quick I've just got some tying 13 ivr\ niiAcfmnc U|y V|UVJ UU11C. Wl&rc* T T VI V vaii j VU wVVVrVo-.X.r......L..../...1....W......W...........I..ViJ....l..V....U........-X..f..X.V....Ir 14 PCBs? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. You were. What prompted that? 17 A. I don't know whether the -- I came to work 18 one day, and they said -- somebody had 19 requested it. I don't know whether some of 20 the employees or in light of the PCBs in the ADAD21-007613 HARTOLDMON0035735 21 area somebody got concerned. 22 All I know is it was a request to 23 have employees and ex-employees tested that 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007614 HARTOLDMON0035736 74 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 worked in that area. Ifyou wanted to, you 2 f'/'Ml 1A \rr\n Vnntu/ tr\ vvuiu, ^ vu n.nw, v viuiuvvi iv ivoivvt. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And so I did because I worked in there doing 5 that, the bagging and flaking. 6 Q. Do you remember how you were notified that 7 they would be doing tests? 8 A. I've been on the union committee. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. And it was brought up in the union management 11 meeting, so I had firsthand knowledge of it. 12 Q. Okay. That way? 13 iAi. T a uuia i, luiovv vviv/hiinu r\rr\-mrvfiar1 Tj /vm/ui iL\~.nnru\vv*7*? Au&vvr'tiAu&vAu 14 to do the testing, but I know we was 15 notified. And being the secretary and posted 16 in the minutes, you know, I had firsthand 17 knowledge of it or when it was available. 18 Q. Do you remember how the rest of the plant 19 would have been notified? 20 A. I don't -- ADAD21-007615 HARTOLDMON0035737 21 Q. Other guys who might not have been in "the 22 know" the way you were? 23 A. In fact, I know from word of mouth. I'm not 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007616 HARTOLDMON0035738 75 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 sure. There may have been a letter sent 2 3 But I know when -- I know telling 4 some of the employees if anybody wanted to be 5 tested that Solutia is doing a -- 6 Solutia-Monsanto -- doing a PCB testing of 7 any of the ex-employees or present or current 8 employees wanted to be test, just give them a 9 call and they would. 10 I fact, I think they went through 11 two different times. 12 Q. Do you remember if there was a mailing that 13 r\n+ r^+ir=rl mrvr\1rvw^^o9 vvviu uui lw ivuivu vni|/ivj( vvj ; 14 A. I'm not sure. I'll have to check on that. 15 Q. Would the union have taken care -- would the 16 union have been who notified the employees, 17 or would it have been Solutia management or 18 somebody else? Do you remember who would 19 have actually been the organization that 20 notified -- ADAD21-007617 HARTOLDMON0035739 21 A. Yeah, we was asked in the union management 22 meeting if, you know, that if, you know, if 23 we -- anybody get in contact with any of 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007618 HARTOLDMON0035740 76 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 them. 2 T rlrm't AxrArxrhrxrhr a*7QC -L UV11 l 1Y11V V VV11VUIV1 V Y VI j WUJ V Y UJ 3 notified by letter, but I know in the union 4 management meeting, we was asked to, you 5 know, given a date when it was going to 6 happen so if anybody wanted to and we see 7 them or call them if anybody's interested to 8 be sure to let them know. 9 So we sort of passed it on ourself 10 if we saw some of the employee, ex-employees. 11 Q. Do you remember being told, if you were told, 12 what the reason for being tested would be? I 13 1A Ka r\-ftrnrki\7inrr rF invuii, vvnui vvvwiu w uiv i/viivin vi n 14 you had PCB in your blood? 15 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 16 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) If any benefit? 17 A. Well, I guess just curious because the people 18 in the area across the plant, some of them 19 was tested, and they never would have found 20 out and had some counts of PCBs. ADAD21-007619 HARTOLDMONOQ35741 21 The reason I test, I just wanted to 22 see since I worked in it, you know, what was 23 my count. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007620 HARTOLDMON0035742 77 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Okay. 2A * Vnn mo+ narcr\rial ......V.....W.........1*Y11 V V* V J UJ l ^/V'L JV11U-1 r1--a-V---o-U--ck*^A..V...n.l....c.... Fr\ L't'irYtTir .v...c...x...x....u...v...'.v...t.....i...v........i.u.......i..v......*..... 3 what it was. 4 Q. Were you concerned? 5 A. No. 6 Q. You weren't? 7 A. No, but I was just interested in knowing -- I 8 probably -- if that hadn't of come up, I 9 probably never would have requested it. 10 Q. Would you have known that you could be blood 11 tested the for PCBs if that hadn't come up? 12 A. I guess being the type of company it is, if 13 if T miacc tup vn7r\n u VVV V 11U V V X VY|UVJIVU n, x guvoo VVV VVVU1U 14 have. 15 Q. I mean, I guess I wonder if you would have 16 known that there was such a -- whether or not 17 there was such a test as a blood test for 18 PCBs? 19 A. We had a guy come in from St. Louis, I guess, 20 during that time, and I don't know. I don't ADAD21-007621 HARTOLDMON0035743 21 remember what time it was if it was before we 22 was checked. 23 I know -- I'm not sure whether I'm 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007622 HARTOLDMON0035744 78 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 answering the question right, but I don't 2 pyqp+K; rn/Viaf__ QCV +tlf> mipctmn iviuviuuvi v/mvuj vvnui UJ1\ U1V V|UVOUVll 3 again. I'm sorry. 4 Q. That's fair. 5 A. I'm a little bit confused myself. 6 Q. I think that what you said to me before was 7 you'd heard that people who didn't work at 8 the plant had been blood tested and had PCBs 9 in their blood? 10 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 11 Q. And so you're not sure what the source was, 12 whether it be employees or union or who, but 13 +hie pmnlnr/AAC vxzlirv iiiui lino inuuv ui ivuji mv vmpiv/j wo vvnv 14 worked in the aroclor department curious as 15 to whether or not they would have -- 16 A. Some of them wasn't tested. They didn't 17 care. Some of them was that worked in that 18 area. 19 Q. Would you have known about the ability to be 20 blood tested for PCBs had you not heard that ADAD21-007623 HARTOLDMON0035745 21 other people had been blood tested for PCBs? 22 Would you have known that that would be a way 23 to gauge PCB exposure? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007624 HARTOLDMON0035746 79 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 2 I I--I |h IATF Q Q T m i j. J. i ; j. j. i . J- o T Vi o A tli r\i i rrVif J. nuu uivugm 3 about it when they -- the first thing that 4 came about PCB since I worked there. 5 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Okay. 6 A. But I really wouldn't have been concerned 7 enough to asked because, you know, I didn't 8 seem to have any problem from it. 9 Q. You would have known that you could be blood 10 tested? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. Okay. When was the first time you heard that 13 it.,* rv^eirJ^rvhcil ar&a n^vl +r\ r\r aAicm&ni U1V IVOlUVllUUl U1 VU 11V/W IV VI UUJUVVlll. IV 14 the plant was contaminated with PCBs? 15 A. I really don't know exactly on that. I 16 really don't. I can't -- because I don't 17 remember when the first time it came out. I 18 can't say exactly. 19 Q. Do you remember what year you were blood 20 tested in? ADAD21-007625 HARTOLDMON0035747 21 A. Probably'95,'96. Somewhere in there. It 22 hasn't been that many years ago. 23 Q. So would it probably have been right around 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007626 HARTOLDMON0035748 80 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 then? 2A 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. I'm not sure what the exact year, but it was 5 in the '90s. 6 Q. Had you ever heard of a problem, a possible 7 problem, with PCBs going off-site into that 8 neighborhood prior to 1995, '96 time frame? 9 A. No, no. 10 Q. Okay. I'm not sure that I have anything 11 else. I just want to visit with Drew for a 12 second and see if he's got any questions, and 13 fh A-n vx7A mdtr Ka qVJa +r\ urrcm nn uivii vvv inuj uuiv lw vviu^ 14 (Short recess.) 15 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) Just a couple follow-ups. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. You talked about a gentleman coming from St. 18 Louis for a meeting? 19 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 20 Q. I just want to talk about that meeting ADAD21-007627 HARTOLDMON0035749 21 briefly. Did you attend the meeting? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. Do you remember the name of the gentleman who 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007628 HARTOLDMON0035750 81 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 came from St. Louis? 2 A TVTrx T'm onmi T /^r\n*+L A.. -L ^V. i 111 LV11 j . J. UV11 l. 3 Q. Do you remember his title? 4 A. I don't. 5 Q. Do you remember what he looked like? 6 A. I'm sorry. 7 Q. Was he tall, short, fat, skinny, bald, young, 8 old, anything at all? 9 A. (Witness shakes head.) 10 Q. Just walked in there and closed your eyes and 11 listened? 12 A. Well, we was told -- being on the committee. 13 x\i& -\i700 -fMre+lionrJ \7r\n L~nr\vn7 VVV VVUJ IU1U 1110U1U11U U1UI, j UU 1V11V vv? 14 somebody was going to come down and he was 15 going to talk about, you know, the PCBs and 16 stuff like that in front of the employees, 17 but I really can't. I don't remember his 18 name. 19 Q. Do you remember if anybody from your plant 20 helped run the meeting from the Anniston ADAD21-007629 HARTOLDMON0035751 21 plant? 22 A. No, I can't. 23 Q. You don't remember if anybody -- 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007630 HARTOLDMON0035752 82 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. No. 2O V^. T^r\ \7r\n rpmptnKpr J-/V j VU 1 VlllVlllOVl VfllUl aV*7YQUOO taWs&A lUliVVU ciV\rvii+ Uk/VUt of Uk U1V 3 meeting? 4 A. Well, I guess PCBs basically and the pending 5 litigation about the plant over there just to 6 inform the employees about what's, you know, 7 bring us up to date on the PCBs and all that. 8 Q. What kind of stuff would they tell you about 9 PCBs? 10 A. Well, that it was -- it had been proven to 11 cause cancer in rats, but it nowhere been 12 proven that it caused any harm to humans. 13 O Amz ioohao vnzt+h v^. i iiij uuivi nvunii iojuvj uuvujjvu vuiii 14 respect to PCBs? 15 A. Well, I don't -- I don't know whether this 16 was at the same time, but they did a survey 17 at one time about ex-employees in comparison 18 with other areas about -- see if there was a 19 bigger health risk, you know, with employees 20 that worked at the plant or have worked at ADAD21-007631 HARTOLDMON0035753 21 the plant in comparing to other areas that 22 people wasn't exposed to PCBs. And it wasn't 23 from the survey. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007632 HARTOLDMON0035754 83 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. Were the ex-workers only aroclor employees. 2 -\7rvii b'-nrwx/ r\r atw WV j VW lUJWVj VI V*V1 V UIV V/l VVV11W1L7 Ullj wwj 3 who would have worked -- 4 A. Ex-workers in the plant. 5 Q. In the plant generally? 6 A. Basically they keyed on aroclor workers. 7 They did that survey and then the entire 8 plant, I think, but it wasn't -- 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. - it wasn't found to be any, you know, any 11 different. 12 Q. Were you ever questioned in the context of 13 oi iiiui jui v vj ; 14 A. Yeah, I think I was. 15 Q. Did you answer questions? 16 A. Uh-huh (indicating yes). 17 Q. So six or seven months constituted an aroclor 18 employee in terms of that survey for purposes 19 of that survey? Were you interviewed as an 20 ex-aroclor employee, do you recall? ADAD21-007633 HARTOLDMON0035755 21 A. No. 22 Q. I'm sorry. The way I understood what you 23 said, and maybe I misunderstood it, was a 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007634 HARTOLDMON0035756 84 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 survey was done of ex-Monsanto employees to 2 rjpfprminp r\r rir\t a*7QC q VtVlVl 1 V11V111V1 VI UVl UIVIV 3 higher -- 4 A. Well, they had your -- my medical records -- 5 they had your medical records of other 6 employees that were there, and I was asked 7 personally to contact somebody that I knew, 8 and I did, so they could come talk with 9 someone and follow up and see what their 10 health was in. 11 Q. Did anybody follow up with you about your 12 health? 13 Ka<^ciiio^ i+ vn7oe r\n -L'lW, VVVUUJV It VVUJ Vll if -\i7QO a\re*CkA\T__ It VVUk) un vuuj 14 Q. Because they had your health records? 15 A. Yeah, they had my health records. 16 Q. Do you know for purposes of the survey 17 whether you were included as an ex-aroclor 18 employee? 19 A. Well, in the testing it was. 20 Q. Yeah. ADAD21-007635 HARTOLDMON0035757 21 A. When we was tested. 22 Q. When you were blood tested, you were? 23 A. Right. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007636 HARTOLDMON0035758 85 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 Q. But you don't know if that's how you -- you 2 .IU..1..1.\..U..W....U..t...U..ll.iOc...oO..nU.r1.-.w.`A` x~r V..I..aV..v/.l._..M.T..ni.v.n.i.cu..cu..mm...t.vn. 3 employees? 4 A. Current and anybody that worked there. 5 Q. You don't know - and I think what you said 6 was they did this general look at ex-Monsanto 7 employees, and then within that, they looked 8 at ex-aroclor employees; is that right, or 9 did they only look at the plant? 10 A. Probably at the plant, but when they did the 11 PCBs, they basically looked at the ex -- they 12 looked at the whole plant, but the people 13 fViof in arr\r*1r\r ft, at7 Ir^nt-Arl cti a lllUl VVOllVVW 111 U1 W1V1? Uivj 1W1VVW Ul U1VJV 14 too. And it wasn't a big difference. 15 Q. Okay. And when they looked at people who 16 worked in aroclor, you would be one of the 17 people they looked at? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So six months constituted -- of employment 20 constituted -- ADAD21-007637 HARTOLDMON0035759 21 MR. KELLY: Object to the form. 22 Q. (By Ms. Ruth) - would constitute an 23 ex-aroclor employee? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007638 HARTOLDMON0035760 86 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 2 nv^. MR. KELLY: Object to the form. A/To "Rn+VA mipctinn io* Wqc fliprp ifj.o. -xx-x*xxiy mj v|uvonvii i>j. ? f uo uiviv 3 you said they looked at ex-aroclor employees 4 for the purposes of this health survey? 5 A. They looked at the whole plant, anybody that 6 worked at the plant. 7 Q. And then after they looked at the whole 8 plant, you said that they looked at aroclor 9 employees. 10 A. Probably when they PCB tested, they -- 11 Q. Are you telling me that they -- 12 A. I'm confused. Go ahead. 13 n Qr\ cim T cr\ vxzaVa At/A-n A ra fa1 11 nrr ma V^. UV Ulll JU V V V X V V Vll. I XI V j V/U IVXlXXXg, 111V 14 that they looked at aroclor employees to 15 decide who to blood testY 16 A. No, no. 17 Q. So when you say they looked at everybody who 18 used to work for the plant and worked for the 19 plant -- 20 A. Right. ADAD21-007639 HARTOLDMON0035761 21 Q-- and then you're telling me they looked at 22 people who worked at aroclor? Did that 23 happen? 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007640 HARTOLDMON0035762 87 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 A. Well, when they did -- they wanted to compare 2 a r\*r\r\1 that ni7rvrl,'Ar1 ai A/Trvnccm+r\ ujv ^w|yiv uiui vwin.vu ui. i*xvnouinv; nu v 3 worked at Monsanto, to possibly could have 4 been exposed to PCBs in compared to other 5 areas. 6 Q. To you know what "possibly could have been 7 exposed" means? 8 A. I mean, the only thing I got from that, 9 anybody who ever worked in a plant that PCBs 10 have been in a plant, that was in the plant, 11 you know. 12 Q. That was it? 13 A Thai \17QO 1 + I 1. 1UUI VVUk) XL. 14 Q. That's the only criteria that you know of? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. I'm sorry if I -18 Q. No, no, no. I think we're kind of on the 19 same page at this point. We'll stop now 20 anyway. ADAD21-007641 HARTOLDMON0035763 21 Did you ever hear of West End 22 Landfill? 23 A. West End Landfill? Now, the only time I had 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007642 HARTOLDMON0035764 88 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 -- when I came -- I didn't know anything 2 ciKmit thie r\A T cmrlfill T r'Qmp +r\ UUVWl U11J VT V'kJI. XJU11U1111 VV11V11 -L VU111V IV 3 work out there. And it was -- I guess, to be 4 honest with you, the only time I've been out 5 there wasn't until the Alabama Power property 6 and it was discovered PCB on that area that I 7 was aware that that used to be a landfill. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. That's the only -- 10 Q. So was that property -- that was property 11 already -- had that property already been 12 sold to Alabama Power -- 13 A 1? i rrh+ 14 Q. -- when you started in -- 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. But you didn't -- 17 A. I don't ever remember a landfill being over 18 there. 19 Q. So when you were bringing things to a 20 landfill, you never brought things to that? ADAD21-007643 HARTOLDMON0035765 21 A. No, I don't remember a landfill being there. 22 Q. Okay. I think that's it. 23 A. Okay. 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007644 HARTOLDMON0035766 89 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 (Deposition concluded at 11:30 a.m.) 2 FI [RTHFR TFTF nFPONFMT ^ A ITU NOTJ. \_/ X V J. J. V X X XI-/ IVI ' VI 1 X Ui XX X X X J. 'I v X . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ADAD21-007645 HARTOLDMON0035767 21 22 23 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007646 HARTOLDMON0035768 90 FOSHEE & TURNER COURT REPORTERS 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA ) 4 ETOWAH COUNTY ) 5 6 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the above and 7 foregoing transcript was taken down by me in 8 stenotype, and the questions and answers thereto 9 were transcribed by means of computer-aided 10 transcription, and that the foregoing represents 11 a true and correct transcript of the testimony 12 given by said witness. 13 T FT rRTFTFT? PFTJTTFV +Fct T amA A WAVA AAJ-/AV W I A AA A kllUl. A Ulll 11V1U1V1 14 of counsel, nor of any relation to the parties to 15 the action, nor am I anywise interested in the 16 result of said cause. 17 18 19 20 ADAD21-007647 HARTOLDMON0035769 21 TAMMY R. JENNINGS GREGORY Notary Public, State of Alabama 22 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES: 9-12-2001 23 2001 PARK PLACE SUITE 220 BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA 35203 1 -800-888-DEPO ADAD21-007648 HARTOLDMON0035770