Document jy4vkonQZmMvGN5NwKyQMLY19

FILE NAME: Union Carbide (UC) DATE: 1939 DOC#: UC004 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Transactions of the 28th National Safety Congress Occupational Disease Control X V Foreword T H E Transactions of the 2h>tli National S afely Congress and F..\|iosition of the National Safety Council, October 1<'>'20, 19.V.I, arc published in two volumes. Volume I con tains the general and subject sessions and the sessions of the various Industrial Sections. Volume If contains (lie Street and Iligliwav Traffic, the Commercial Vehicle, the Transit, the Child education, and the Home Safety sessions. Volume I is distributed automatically to all industrial mem bers of the Council. Volume II is sent to members who arc believed to be interested chiefly in tile sessions it contains. However, other Council members may obtain Volume II upon ret|uest. .Many members have found it of benefit to distribute copies of the Transactions volumes to both executives, foremen and supervisors, who have used the practical information they contain in safety programs and for general reference pu r poses. E xtra copies of the Transactions may be obtained as follows: O ne to 10 copies of Vol. I. at $2 each; 11 or more copies, SI.75 each. Extra copies of Vol. II cost 75 cents each. THE Transactions are a condensed record of the pro ceedings of the Congress. The papers and addresses have been edited to delete extraneous matter, abbreviate the less important portions, and emphasize what may be of particular usefulness in promoting effective safety organization and other accident prevention measures. These volumes, there fore, are a somewhat abridged version, compact, practical and of particular value to the student and executive inter ested in achieving more thorough accident prevention suc cess, T he original manuscripts arc available for additional reference, if desired, in the files of the National Safetv Council. T H E National Safety Council, at its Cmgrcsses, seeks to eliminate from discussion matters which are not pertinent to the aims of the Congress or which may be contrary to the Council's policies. It cannot accept responsibility, however, for all views expressed either in the papers which have been delivered or in the discussions hased upon these papers. N A T IO N A L S A F E T Y C O U N C IL , Inc. 20 North ^X^acl<er Drive Chicago \ Contents Council Officers and Directors.................................... 4 Council Purposes and Program.................................. 9 Annual Meeting of Members........................................ 11 Annual Banquet ....................... ........................... 27 Special Subject Sessions-- Eliminating Mechanical Causes of A ccidents... 29 Fire Control and Prevention................................ 43 Fumes, Gases and Vapors...................................... 55 Governmental Safety Service in Industry.......... 69 .. Ifealth Service in Industry.................................... 93 Industrial N u rsin g ....................... .........................109 Maintaining Interest in Safety..............................123 Occupational Disease Control................................133 Off-the-Job Accidents .......................................... 149 " Safety Inspectors ...................................................163 The Human Side of Safety............. 181 Welding and Cutting.............................................. 203 Aeronautical Section ..................... ....225 A. S. S. E.--Engineering Section................................. 239 Automotive and Machine'Shop Section......................245 Cement and Quarry Section..........j ..............................259 Chemical Section ........................... i ..............................273 Construction Section .................................................... 299 Food S ectio n .................................... 319 Marine Section ................................................................339 Meat Packing, Tanning and Leather Industries Section ......................................................................... 391 Metals Section ................ ' ............................................. 407 Mining Section . . .......................................................... 449 Paper and Pulp Section.................................................. 477 Petroleum Section .......................................................... 531 Power Press Section........................................................ 567 Public Utilities Section.................................................. 581 Refrigeration Section .................................................... 607 Rubber Section ................................................................623 Steam Railroad Section.................................................. 645 Textile Section ................................................................677 Wood Products Section.................................................. 693 Safety Exposition Exhibitors.......................................715 Index .................................................................................719 u National Safety Council, Inc. H O N O RARY MEMBERS Association of I kon ano S ieei. E soinkkrs RoRFKT W. Camitiki.f Lew R. P.vi.mkr OFFICERS (1939-1940) Coi.. J ohn S iiiaveie. Presuhm H. J. Ai.nim 11, Vice-President lor Safety Councils I. . C. Camitif.fi , \'ico-President for Industrial Safety Wet. C. K noi i K. \'icc-President for Education Du. Mn.i i.it McCi.iniock, Vice-President for Puldic Safety I. \V. Mii i ari), Vice-President for Finance and Treasurer W ai.tf.r S. P aine, Vice-President for Engineering L fav R. P ai.mf.r, Vice-President for Public Relations A. V. Roiiwi:ni:it, Vice-President for Home Safety R. T. Soi i nsten, Vice-President for Membership W. If. C ameron. Managing Director and Secretary EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE (1939-1940) II. J. Ai.nim.Ti. Spencer Kellogg & Sons. Inc. I. I. 11\ Nash, Past President C. W. Bf.kcoitst. Past President H. W. r.or.r.Kss, Sinclair Prairie Oil Co. If. 1C. Ibii.T, South Pend (Civic Safety Council F. \V. Itiivrx, ASSE-Enginvei ing Section W. II. C ameron. National Safety Council L. C. Camitieu, The Koppcrs Coal Company R. W. Camititt, Past President Roiii.ht I. Cati.in, Aetna Casually &; Surety Co. f). B. Chant. Paper and Pulp Section Lewis A. D eBi.ois. Past President C. VV. Dr.Mi r.sv, The Liquid Carbonic Corp C. R. Dooi.ev. Sorony -Vacuum Oil Co. Inc. M \Rit;s A. Dow, Past President IIakoih F. Knt.ows, American National Red Cross 0. D. IT.nnit.i, Past President II. J. Griffith, Metals Section E. E. Grover, Coltimhn- & Southern Ohio Electric Co. Maruv Gt.Ti.iu.RT. The Pullman Co. G. T. H fi i.mutii, Chicago Rapid Transit Co. Haroio G. H offman, Unemployment Compensation Comm, o f N. J. S. It. IIomiiT.i, The Carey Salt Co. W. Fi.<vn J a c k s o n . Delaw a ic Safely Covucil 4 O FFICER S A N D D IR EC TO R S, Continued W alter G. K ing, Past President VVm. C. K kof.lk, Milwaukee Safety Commission John E. Long, Past President Titos. H. MacDo.vai.u, Federal Public Roads Administration R. A. McA rtiiuk. Piililic Service Coordinated Transport I)k. Miller McCuntock, Yale University I. VV. Millard, Industrial (.loves Co. H arold L. M iner, E. I. dtt Pont de Xcnionrs & Co. H on. E uot N ess, Director o f Public Safely. Cleveland C. J. Noiimann, Petroleum Section E. J. O 'Brien, J r., Louisville Safety Council * W alter S. P aine. Aetna Life & Affiliated Cos. L ew R. P almer, Past President C. E. PrrniioNE, Past President 13. O. P ickard, Marine Section ` Albert S. Regula, Industrial Relations Counselors, Inc. R. J. Reigeluth, Construction Section I. t. Coe. H enry A. liHNiNin.it, Past President E. A. Roberts, Textile Section A. V. Roiiweokr, Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range Ry. Co. Ciiari.es B. Scott, P a s t President ' F rank T. S heets, P ortland Cement Association Gen. John H. S herburne, Massachusetts Safety Council Carl L. S mith, Cleveland Safety'Council C. R. S mith, American A ir Linesl Inc. R. T. S oi.knsten, Elliott Service ;Co. Leslie J. S orenson, City Traffic'Engineer, Chicago Col. J ohn Stiiavell, Consolidated Edison Company of New York. Inc. ' J ohn M. S ylvester, Lehigh Valley Safety Council C. P. T oi.man, Past President 1 George G. T raver, Greater Chicago Safety Council Dr. C. H. W atson, P a st President A. W. W hitney, Na'ional Conservation Bureau R. V. W right, Railway Age A rthur H. Young, Past President DIRECTORS (1939-1940) H. J. Ai.drioi, Spencer Kellogg & Sons, Inc. A. L. Armstrong, Eastm an K odak Company Vern VV. Aubei, Safety Div., Syracuse Chamber o f J. 1. Banash, Past President D. A. Barrett, Carnegic-lllinois Steel Corp. L eo H. Beaulac, Blackstone Valley Safety Council E rnest VV. Beck, United States Rubber Co. C. VV'. Bercijuist, Past President E. F. Blank, Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp. H. VV. Boggess, Sinclair P rairie Oil Co. H E. Bolt, South I}end Civic Safety Council Commerce 5 O FFIC ER S A N D D IR E C T O R S. Continued <'. It. lini i l i . \Visc>muii l 'ulilie Service Curp. I. C. Hmvi nt ,\utoiiHitive amt Machine Shop Section )'. V . I'iKaun, A S S E -Engineering Section Jostj'ii ,\. Itiiofiiv, Elizabeth Safety Council I". S. Ilitnuv, Stamlaril Acciilcnt Insurance Co. IV X. lirsiiM i l.. Cement Section \V. H. ( \ mi K<i\. Wi l l (mat Safely Council A. 11. CAMniia i,, Minin;; Section !.. C. Camtiii i.i.. The Koppers Coal Co. Roman- \V. C ami i:i i.i . Past 1'resilient If ivmiimi A. ( , \Kl v, Evanston Safety Council If av C nixiY , Keno-ha Safely Council Pom in I. Cvn.i.v, Aetna Casually & Surety Co. IP 1!. C i i w r , Paper anil Pulp Section \ \ it. M. t'i \ kk*. St. JoM-pIt Safety Council K i vni tii It. Cot.man, Seattle Trafile i t Safety Council I. E. t a i l im a . Bethlehem Steel Co. I.favis A Di lii.ois. Past President W. I hnei.sv, The Liquid Carbonic Corp. M ii.tox VV. Doiiiizkssky, East Bay Safety Council C. R. Uooi.i:y, Socoiiy-Vactnim Oil Co. Inc. J aMrs 1!. I fiu.x.t.AS, The Philadelphia Gas Works Co. M a r c s A. Iline. Past President H aiioi li | \ E ni.ous, American National Red Cross D . I ) . I T n m i.i. Past President Donami A. l:iNKiti iNi.K. Toledo Safety Council I tu. I (aim l'isinai. (Iiiengo Rapid Transit Co. Vienili 1!. E n /.ru iticK , Richmond Safety Council llow.Mio IV P u m i a , Burroughs W-cllcome & Co. (U S A ) h i e . \ \ M. II. I'niisv a li, S uperior }v I )oii;;las ( anility S a fe ty faniiii-il A iu n ri! t I 'kv, W o rcester S a fe ly Council J ohn 1!. tiinso.v, W estern Electric Car. I. vi.K II. t i n i , Pi-nria Association of Commerce Safely Council Ranhoii ii L. Gil.man. Railway Safety Council W. A. ( `n a n in, American Telephone & Telegraph Co. II. .1. Ciiiiiaaiir, Metals Section E. I-.. (univi a, Colinnlms Jfc Southern Ohio Electric Co D arky Cu ii.iii rt. The Pullman Company D. T. 11AiiiiiNOTON, U. S. Bureau of Mines P rank II. H aruison, International Harvester Co. G. T. I h i i Meni, Chicago Rapid Tr.ansit Co. E. L. Ili v ia , Si. am Railroad Section J. C. U nita kt, (renter Cos Angeles Safet} Council C n \s. K. Mii.i., New York Central System II.xKOU) C. H oitmxn, I 'nemplovment Compensation Coinmi>*<t<m% New Jcr>cy P ali. H oi i \ nd, Uahimore Safety Council J. Andui w H o u .kv, CliiM Education Section S. n. H okiu.u ,, The Carey Salt Co. Major Xokmw* A. I\um:( Safety Council of Columlm* Chamln-r oi Commerce 6 O FFICER S A N D D IR E C T O R S , Continued M kkkick J ackson-, Employees' Publication Section W. I to v n J ackson, Delaware Safety Council Wit. I*. J ames, Philadelphia Safety Council J aseek It. J ohnson, Madison County Safety Council T. ft. J ohnson, Commercial Vehicle Section F rank I.. J ones, Greater New York Safety Council T homas P. K earns, Ohio Industrial Commission f\At.l'll (). K eefer, Chemical Section It. II. K i.u a -, U. S. Interstate Commerce Coumiission W aiter ( i. K ino, Past President W m. C. K.nou.k, Milwaukee Safety ( 'onunissioti W m. S. K numsi.n, Detroit Industrial Safely Council O r r o C. K uiikt, Greater Spring held Safety Council C. I - I .AFountain!'., Great Northern Knilu-av Co. Rov L ee, Contra Costa County Safety Council ' \knoi.u Lockeuuv, Grand Rapids Safety Council J ohn E. Long, Past President Tnos. H. M acDonai.o, Federal Puldic Roads Administration Hon. A rthur W . M acke, New Jersey Commissioner o f Motor V e hicles Dennis J. M aley, Safety Bureau. Buffalo Chamber o f Cotnnieret- R. A. M cA rthur, Public Service Coordinated Transport H. X. McCi.e u .an, Berkeley Traffic Safety Commission l)u. Mtt.1.1: M cC i.intock, Yale University David L. M iu .ar, St. Louis Safety Council I. VV. Miu .arh, Industrial Globes Company I I ahoi.h L. M iner, Is. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co. H arry S. Moony, Rochester Safety Council R. 1!. Moitu-.v, Industrial Accident Prevention Associations R. VV'. Mouse, Rubber Section 0. L. Murray, Mason City-i'erro Gordo Comity Safety Conned 1Ion. Euot N ess, Director of Public Safety. Cleveland C. J. Noi-aiann, Petroleum Section K. J. O 'B rien, J r., Louisville Safety Council George C. A. O f f , The Detroit Edison Company VVai.tek S. P aine, Aetna Life f t Affiliated Companies Lew R. P aemer, Past President Daviii A. P atton, Newark Safety Council C. K. P eacock, Chattanooga Safety Council Ciiauucs W. P endock, Safety Division, Milwaukee Association of (.Commerce C. K. P i tthione. Past President B. <). P ickaru, Marine Section Itaier. H arry H. P orter, Street & Highway Traffic Section 11. A. P toi.emv, Public Utilities Section A. A. Ram, Refrigeration Seetion Ai.nr.RT S. Rrnut.A , Industrial Relations Counselors, Inc. R. J. Knic.n.uTH. Ccmstruetion Section 1. t. Cot- H enry A. U enincck, Past President M aiiinus Ritf.r, Paterson Safety Council E. A. UotiERTS. Textile Section t 7 OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS, Contmued Section ` U,AI' I`NKK' - leaf I'ackinj;. Tanning & Leather Industrie* D r a cH ` S h k r"1;k`ne- -Massachusetts Safety Council - p 1NELST^ ; S ou,'y- Steel Con,pane ' , Aiiorrn I ? vc" < W il ' Carl L. S.Mmt, Cleveland Safet'v Counc''* ,, ~ " M1T" ' American Air Lines, Inc f Con,mew I FsusS r'T STEN'' Elli 0tt Scryicc Company p . ^ S i S p f cE~ ' Cl"" E dmundC Stone^ W Cton'!0p,ila,t,`l ^ <lisoi` Company o N. Y. ln C Turnt M. roDR, Consulting .Marine Engineer C. P. T olman, Past President D ? T \ G- J r ^ GAca,Cr Ch'c^ ^ `fetv Council S ' r T w "UKr'" 'nGc,,Cral El * n c Company Pa,t Pridcn. F red A. \ \ E, Pood Section T.' < S f m ' "*' o i Itim i, s. ev w 0. , i ; , v si, , , S Cta,ntar of .'1l 'Cc \\Vv UV.nSOnNtt.rW?oNoda,lPornoadI uCcotsnsSeercvtaiotinon liurcati A. iV WoomiKAi), All,any Safety Council KK. VVW. W r,,TigI1h'ti,,,R1fa!rinlwalaiyw'AalpeH arvester Co. A rthur H. Young. Past President M anc M. R. Z TM . ? o w e r Press S o e b e n '" f Commerw .1 The .YadoruJ rrot. cooperati? "ve is the eJirr a ch ie this obje the following pr( T cr ea tin g ** People Will nly u hen ,h<v . loines: (a) that ; us prol-lejn. thrr; i-'dustnaj rider, r 9> * t accident? toa; each oce } ; tc) that a ; *** m jtiirr 1 ihfTtiori *" < rcrsew aiic- and more people. - rlNDLVG . Acoden: cutset stwo plants. ia a c schools. Tbcy are t;g c lo ^sK her. cr" T y - nwj *, ~ ^ c oc pease = s t a n the n C* B Srocj*. so , ar* W3 he & ; rs`r o o t l e te r r a i:. - i l A L Y T A a M F m -. ft,* * - f T c rx oca 3 3 n^35?.T r.'Bi *- Be5=e scou. e cedar < a o c a a i , *V Bar c i t a a t u ea w c ;aae.- *riejn min -aoanu suti dan ^ataa c Seiaoer a * aftt- *Cm im iiiiiB jij; 'Q tia k , aam-.nnie ' i u 7^ ss eafcfc f ' ' d e fBg* i < c - -- fj n r \ i t .TOfcOpjjjy h , "k *.* a sound unit /operating i a strip film projector. or may not be autouzed to the sound record, wbinations of. the forc. ^ J T h e opaque projector -s a slide unit and the u- may be readily adapted - slides. rnjector, the basic govern- to be presented. Pictures, is. ' the audience or the size m in which it is to he lamp housing and suh- of items 1 and 2 usually and type projector ncccsses a combination unit is merest of greater flcxibil be necessary to procure lifTcrent focal length for ticularly if a variety of encountered. The shorter ecn the projector and the r the focal length of the or the average projector, jeetion lenses are usually if portability is more or ' >ry and is governed almost al situation. Too much in tility and projection power aerificcd to portability. I wer of a projector lamp cd below 200 watt. "TR-cr, my preference is for a projector bulb of from A size larger than this .1 power circuit which may here needed. In projectors bulbs larger than .100 wattf forced draft ventilation Otherwise damage to the - being projected is almost 'I too, the bulb itself may \ocssive heat. Occupational Disease Control ~ THURSDAY MORNING SESSION October 19, 1939 The session planned :or the discussion m problems in industrial occupational disease control was called to order by ,ohnsoi| ; Assistant to the Manager tuaf'l DIePartn' e,U' American Mu- inn Ela u k , -v Insurance Companv, Bos ton. Mass., who presided. The problems -erCrPresented as a panel discussion, and Chairman Johnson introduced the mem bers oi the panel, as follows: their health. On the left base is the medi cal side. 1 hey are the group employed to carry out the medicai part of industrial management's responsibility. And cn. the lower right is the third base of this tri- a n g l c where we find the engineers or in dustrial hygienists, who have to develop and prepare for the operating group the controls ot occupational disease, as far as e ,Rj' V Chief Safety Inspector - tandard Oil Company of Xew Jersey New Ti ork City. J Hv^r/n!" A' D.ivisio1' of Industrial 7urTeh r i .E,'.IJ" ' cer,ne Research, /-uriUi General Accident & Liability In surance Company, Chicago. li,!nr,V;V G- Cri1,"ch- industrial Toxicology Vow v " , ; h C itJi: m 0" Carbide Company'. them eennS ' 5 C0,,cerred controlling -Now there is a strong tie between the medical and the engineering phases t lrough that base kne of the triangle. What we hope to do in discussing each topic is to develop that tie. which we will call the balance oi opinion between the medical phases developed by the doctors on my lett. and the engineering phases det eloped hv the engineers on my right. Dr. I-eonard Grcenlntrg, Executive Di rector Division of Industrial Hygiene New Yo7 k V i t y m ' D c p a n n 'Cnt of Owens-1 Ilinois CJlass' Company^ To^cd'ol'o. E- p - Reiter. Director, Industrial I i ,D!TVC` r ra,0 ry ' R,nPloyers Mutual I-i._tb.lity Insurance Company, Wausau. <\ Dr- O. A. Sander. Milwaukee. Wis. The' Discussion Plan CII.M UMAX JO H X S O X : We have agreed to have a working base from which Which'! t a lm 1,1,8 ' vorkil,ff base from wInr ' try ,0 dcVclop 0l,r l>i" ionS S 'W,n.'.,` c|u w to call a triangle of re- r , ; ; s ,v T ^ fwh mayi,e ca,ied an,,jc * *. s an equilateral tri At tne top of this triangle is managewho i " ,ndus,r,ial enterprise, the man hhiirree-- th"en,la5b*orP,a>th,' e"m,Canbiw" hS'o ,wbeorrmieas"ab' vo'buot I would like to ask this panel n ion. For a great many years occupational hazards have been sttteiierl in one indnstrj or another. \ \ oi.id this pa,, c| feel let us say. sanguine that any industrial enter prise I- now ready, by employing proper personnel, by searching out the answers wherever they may lie found, to solve an occupational disease problem if thev have Tthhee'ssaaf.ec!ty >yan"d.:eh, eparlft*h?crof' otlhme inc"mpmka.vineteasi-n- .'ut ano.ner w .n , i l c s ! ;;; >n the nark on some o: these hazards b t reason oi cormic; of m inion. eomhVi of i xperuuental data a:;.| theoretical e x p re m o l by iollts who fad the theoretical b a r - ard in exposure because it is suggested in the book: \ \ ,,1 Dr. E. G. Crancl, talk briefly along this line of suggestion? b ro a l ' CRArX C H : TM i s dues,ion is a road one: Is any industry satisfied that diissee.a'ss"e "onl'0Sh,,"e "oasis50o1f4 6praensenctutiMnftolromnaa-l tionr I would sav. absolutely ves. for th*. majority of occupational disease problems are suihcicntlv understood to adopt PfiJ. cient measures for control. -- l.tf I.U V ' 2'th National Safely Congress < It AI tt MA \ J O H N S O N : I*roineittfy ft hear it said, "Well, why should I do .invilirne about this until you folks conic l> i n i u s ui whether ft ought to have two (.tils per million o r tu n thousand parts l**r million?" l.ct ns develop this fat(her and ash; the it*n of Or. I*.. I. Meiler, on the engineering siile. I iKV M ICITKlv : I a rm - will Hi. < t.tin tv th .,1 Ilu re is cnoti*-;b hn.-wn l.. solve dies; occupational disease hazards. Il some employers arc not willing to do anything at all until all possible intornia* lion is available, I would say that dtcy are never j!*w'sr to start. In. -d\ii* tlu'.c net np.i Ii<<n.t I di a I>rAmmi<. n r Iiave a progressive Mdiitioii. In the same way that the PMtl automobile could not h a w been Iniilt in just so tie vve progressing in all tli* branches <d engineering. ventilation, ventilation equip ment. and respiratory protective devices, and so ft think adequate information is available. A Basis for Truth f f iA I R M A N JO H N S O N : f think we li:*vc a balance of opinion there. If yon have an occupational disease hazard, there is enough knowledge stored somewhere in the boohs and brains to tackle it or solve it in progressive fashion. But we are clut tered up. I think, by a In; of crack-brained notions. I have read any quantity of liter ature in whicli somebody lias ventured the (pinion dint because such and siieh ma terials are used, we must have a hazard that is just ah*ut ready to kill oil the population of the plant. I >** we know enough about the hazards ami control of benzol, silicosis, arsenic, phosphorus, radium, x-ray. and so forth, to sort out die truth and build upon solid fact an effective safety program? Will Dr. Leonard Greenhurg develop that for a r/.uplc of minutes? DR. CiUrCEXBURG: It seems to me that there is a definite body of evidence which is avaitafdc on the more important occupational poisons and for the more important occupational diseases, that lu.ikcs it possible to prevent and control these poisonings and these hazard with a great deal of certainty. That holds for substances such as car bon ttumovidc and lead and chromium and arsenic and benzol. Tin* c h id reason, it seems to me. why we still mlmm- to have poisonings in industry is because the employer and the worker do not realize the gravity of these hazards and do not take tin* pro!) in seriously enough t* in stihite the necessary and proper means of prevention. CHAIRMAN* JO H N S O N : Now I am going |n switch to the engineering Adr and ask the saute question. Lei iu vi-.ual i/c an industrial enterprise that is tearful, that has a notion that some expo .on- is a serious one. and w ants to know it th e n is anything from an industrial eirpiireriug standpoint that will make it mpo-..Mh(c <a ditto nil to dvvi-a- the propm in*.ti ninetit I) measure the quantity of e\p o - ,u n \ whether it he dust, gas nr tunic. f am going to turn that over to Warren Cook. M I L C n O K : Today we have mote methods available for finding out how much of (lie injurious materials a man i> being exposed to than we have ever had in tlie past. Formerly it was a very labori ous procedure in most cases to analyze the atmosphere inhaled by the worker. Today in connection with more and more of the injurious materials, we arc having placed in our hands and are having de veloped methods ivliich will quickly tell us how much of the injurious material is in the atm osphere breathed by the worker. W e liave devices which will determine the concentration of carbon monoxide merely by reading a gauge. Similar equip ment is being developed for other injuri ous materials. For vapors, about the host device is tin. Iiiik rpernnietcr. and we hope we will he aide to got equipment of this kind manufactured in this country one of these days, hut at the present time it is rather difficult to obtain. Practically all of the injurious materialin industrial atmospheres can he d eter mined. Some of the met hods arc more simple than others, but methods arc being simplified all of the time so the safety en gineer in the plant can avail himself of these methods. C H A I KM AN J O H N S O N : Now I am going to ask Roy Bousih a rather critical question. In cases of doubt, where fear has to he balanced with knowledge, waul I he think it advisable to attempt to dchi a hazard in a plant without technical Occupational Disease Control 135 liH'.'iMimiicnt5 Tlial is. I>y visual o b se rv a tion. (Jr does be fvvl dial it is heyond all question desirable to liavc the survey made technically by industrial hygienists or by men trained to sample properly with proper instruments? Mli. I'.O N S I 15: I think (lie g reatest trouble in industry today is that there lias lieeu too uuieti guess work. In d eal ing u ilh insidious problems sueli as Ihe m u Mibstaiii es and some of the old sub stanees which have been introduced, it is pretty bard to hang your hat on everythiui;. and the average executive today wants to know exactly uliat is what, and you eauuol Know that without eonerele evidence. Vi,tu h a re got to gel dclitiilc il>foriiialiintaud data. W h e n unee yon l.nnw the fai ls, whieli van only be nhiauied 111roiiyrIt technical means and by experienced people, you can give them somethin}? definite on which they eau base definite conclusions and on which von can hasc vonr preventive measures. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : Now I feel assured that we can discuss some detailed problems. W e have our base. \Vc are in agreement that there is no ordinary occu pational disease hazard that cannot be coped with, that there is sufficient evi dence to sort fact from fancy, that there are instruments sufficient in quantity and kind for proper engineering analysis, and that there is no need of guessing. I.et ns start now an occupational dis ease control program. W e have Plant X. The management at the top says, "Find my hazard, if any. Control it, if need he. I am setting tip a medical department: 1 am setting up engineering occupational hygienists. 1 want you fellows to w orkout a program so that my operating depart ment can install the necessary safeguards, whatever they may he, and assure me that there will be no emergence of disability by reason of these exposures." The Medical Program I.et iis build first flic medical half of that program. Of wliat docs it generally consist, IJr. O. A. Sander? UK. S A N D E R : I am glad you em pha sized (lie need of a medical program in an occupational disease control program, along with the engineering control An initial examination of all workers exposed to a particular occupational hazard is as necessary as is the exact determination of a hazard by engineering methods. The appearance or the findings in'any group of workers exposed to a particular dust, or wliat have you, gives an accurate pivtine of the lia/aid which lias existed over a period of years. T h a t picture is our which the cii;*.iuccrs cannot give von, because their dn.-.t co un ts or oilier deter- iniiialioiis may be only Icm pniuiy may vary from day today. It may have changed considerably in tho past feu years; the hazard may have been for example, ten titties as great two y ears before a-, it was on the day the dust eoiiul- were made So no occupational di-case c o n tro l is a d e quate willnuil initial {xauiination all employees. CHAIRM AN JO H N S O N : Ur. Sander has developed the need lor the medical examination as a survey.question to deter mine whether conditions as they have ex isted have produced any pathology in the men. Let us assume that, and install our program of control. Dr. Grccnburg. wliat do you feel about the need for periodicity in the examination program ? UR. G R E E N B U R G : I bat' would largely depend on wliat particular hazards were present in the plant itself. In certain cases it would be desirable to examine workers very frequently, perhaps even as often as once a mouth: and in other in stances it might he very satisfactory to examine them once a year, depending on just what particular substances the work ers were exposed to in their daily occupa tion and how satisfactory the technical means (>f control were. F o r example, in the case o f benzol, it might he satisfactory to examine workers every three months. I believe in the case of tetraethyl lead, the dtt P o n t Company examines its employees about once a month, though 1 ain not quite sutc about that. In the case of sand blasters, it might he desirable to examine them and x-ray them every six months; whereas in the case of foundryiucn it might be perfectly satisfactory if tbc men arc engaged in ordinary foundry work to examine them ourc a year and x-ray them once a year or onec every year and a ball. It would be largely a question of jiub. niciil. depending on the particular occu- \ Kit. _\\7/< National S a fe ty ( uni/resi paiioii .iml tin* particular substances cml>1. >t-l. t IIA IK M A N J O H N S O N : I would like to ask llr. ( oceiilmi g to amplify just otir point.. II tlic survey aliout tvliitli Dr. Sander sp o k r discloses no specific occtfpatioual tliscasc hazard as having caused any pathology--and that is the situation that obtains in most plains--hut still there may he some moderate exposures to tins or to that, and the management wants to he perfectly sure, how often as a general thing should those men come up for re examination? Understand, this survey has disclosed no pathology, no damage, nothing you can put your teeth in or hang your hat on as indicating a great need for engineering changes in'current methods of control. Re-examination Periods DU. GRl-IENRURG: That would largely depend on whether there were any hazardous materials being used in the plain. If the condition of the men at the time ot the initial examination was quite negative and no hazardous material is liv ing used in the plant, ! should say the de cision as to whether or not you are going to have physical examinations is largely an open one. anil a matter of wide judg ment l o r example, ill the case of a d ep art ment store's employees, wdicre young women act as salesladies, under ordinary conditions, it might not he necessary or desirable to give them physical examina tions more th a n once in five years, p er haps not even then. If, on the other hand, the physical ex aminations were rpiite negative, and yet toxic materials are being employed, the decision would depend on how toxic those materials are an d what the analysis ot the plant atmosphere shows. It seems to me that the answer to the question is a matter of judgm ent which must he based on a comparison of the relative hazards of the exposure as com pared with the cost and desirability of continuing intensive physical examination, and only by knowing the detailed facts can one arrive at a sound decision in a particular given instance. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : I think that it is very important for you all to consider carciullt the opinion c.vpn ssed there. Vou will observe that he haplaced the burden upon his own piolvssion, by careful discussion, of course, with the management that is to pay the hill: Iml the decision must rest with the doc tor upon the evidence as presented by tinconditions of the plant and the employeethemselves. There is no cook hook formula which says you must put employees through the mill at standard intervals. Rut the making nt medical examinations is ano ther thing. It always presents problems, becan-c men frequently are frightened when tlu-y know they are being examined to sec ii there is an yth in g the m atter with t-hciu. not just being examined to see if they arc all right. They arc always fearful that some dire calamity may overtake them soon. It is a real personnel prob lem, ottc that has to he handled with judgment. I am going to ask Dr. Crauch if, in his long experience of examining a great many employees for operating exposures that might not he hazardous, lie has al ways been able to keep those ciuplui res calm and collected and quiet and quite content with what things were found. DR. CRA N CH : Physical examination programs for occupational disease con trol can hardly be divorced from a physi cal examination program aimed at general health conservation. W here it is possible to have a medical service, where the physi cian is in daily contact with the man. physical examination presents tar fewer difficulties than where it is done only for the sake of occupational disease control. If an outside physical! comes in to ex amine certain groups of men at intervals of from one month to two years, men logically have a right to expect that flier may he something going wrong with those who arc called in frequently, and that leads to considerable nervousness on their part as to what will he found. There is a matter of psychology and practice in carrying out such a pro g ram of examinations. It is much simpler, where it is possible to arran g e it, to have reason ably frequent examinations for general bcaltli conservation, and these x.iuiiii:tions. then, will be included in tin- regular procedure and help to determine the ctfertc of ait occupational disease exposure. Occupational Disease Control 1.17 A? Dr. tire e n b u rg said. rvc do not a t tempt as a rule a routine examination at a tixe.d interval of a year, we will say. Tire periodicity of o u r re-examination is determined largely liy several factors: first, tin: possilile exposure to oecupatioual disease hazards; second, w hat we notice in connection with that man's health as the days go by. Our supervisory force is usually in structed to send in any' man who seems a little under the weather, who docs not seem to he doing well, who seems to he slipping a little. From their recommenda tions often we pick up cases that certainly require examination which otherwise would easily, have been overlooked. Another thing which we have to remem ber is that many symptoms are common not only to occupational disease expo sures incident to life in general; and the medical program for the control of occu pational disease is therefore extremely important in that the contact must be es tablished with the men to determine what changes are going on and what is their origin. CHAIRMAN JO H N SO N : The im portant point to me is that you cannot drag in a physician from the outside who is a total stranger to your problem, merely because lie is ail expert toxicologist or ex pert something else, and ask him to set up a medical examination or control program for about a week, and then depart. Hire him to consult with your own physician, hut let your own physician so fold the occupational disease program in to the general health conservation pro gram, that the findings of the one serve to augment and support the findings of the other. Now I am going to talk to the engineers, and assume that a survey has been made in which we have discovered a hazard sufficiently dangerous so that, in the doc tor's opinion, som ething o u g h t to he done about it. I am not assuming that it has gone so far as to kill men, but it has mani fested itself either in moderate early sym p toms or some actual demonstrable pa thology in a few, I want to ask this group of engineers what they want the medical men to tell them which they may use to utmost ad vantage in their men work in connection with surveying to locate and lutd the hazard that they want to control. Will Willis Hazard discuss that one: MR. HAZARD: It seems to me that the most important thing that the doctor ran tell the engineer is wlint his findings arc from the physical examination. That more or less determines how serious the hazard is; it often isolates it to certain in dividuals in the plant, and that points the way to places that should come under en gineering control in that regard. , C H A I R M A N J O H N S O N : I'erhaps you have already visualized what I am loading to. I w ant Mr. I'onsih to develop that a little farther. Here wc have the medical examination installed to disclose what is wrong- ii anything. I want him to develop the e iginccring control method. W hat fact and what d ata does lie need to go about his business? Engineering Control MR. R O N S IB : Since the amount of damage to flic hum an m echanism depends upon the exposure and the eon cent rat ion the engineer should k n o w the niaxiiiiiiMi allowable concentration to which lie would have to maintain the working atmosphere or (he working condition, and as an en gineer that is something that the medical profession must give so that the engineer will have som ething to w hich to work. i think the answer to the question, then, is that it is very essential that the thresh old or maximum allowable concentration permissible he known. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : I do not think wc will quarrel about that. I am certain no engineering group will stick out its neck far enough to define for the medical profession w hat constitutes the safe threshold limit. It is not quite the answer to the question f had in mind, however. For a great many years, you know, the medical profession has been conducting its work successfully in industry, main taining tbe greatest degree of confidence between tlic employees and the doctor through the fact that the doctor never revealed what was the m atter with the man if there was anything wrong. He grades the men in a general w ay --employ able. or employable subject to mcdiral \$i> 28th National S afety Congress ser. hi . .ini'ilovaWc in limited expo .sure-. I ,|,,,.i I li:tvv- blown open a question . ___i hr doctor inform the engineer !('*> *.<() * " number of facts ationt the i'. j |.. ..h u ll those men have licen cx- ' ' '.V , ,.*.->< weakening that professional l" '>!-'i" . oliicli lie has established in tlu* v\. * kX^,0,n *u* '* - W lm 1 l,,i: ot ci'S'Hccrs ,u <1 vcl >r 1 *" l' u ' ^rIc(|Mnti-l\- mass n i o r o ' >I'li '" ,....r.....i..n..formation about tlie group. ' having to k n o w t i n t Mike Uainl"*"' L ahou! one month Iroin Hier .lh a li>abilitv? Will toil rlr- \ clop : \Uit . 11.1. . m l ' M K .-mir '' 11*.e . \ K I > : l ! ii r c m s i > in* 1 is tl-k- I-o v lh n e i i n c r t* C ' l l l t - i n a j * : : r d y s t a t i s t i a l !.* n o t h ;iv t t o k n o w w h o is :* r >o:v nv.t '* who ' the t*:: he U n; k know 1 *cc !oe;:x * .Xtci know ci h*r it > M:k.* I )atn!>r>\\ s k i It i- e x t r e m e l y itnj*>r- k n o w tl:* ri'. m i l n w o f jM tlc w i n e t h r ?a m e a i lm e n t a m i i* wi::o a r e w o r k i n g in u o r th e p iau t as a w h o le. S U : . ! K-. n o t s e e h o w v o n ciaint; unless you < coin;.: to i!o; and I do not can I'toviiie necessary pro- . :vc> without knowing to whttl .tve to 0 on them. Vo uui<t ,,MioM limit to which the suh- . materia:. whether it is gas. **. U eausinc the trouble. If \*w what the toxic limit is. :::: it take? to make people . u:c!i the :..:~:an mechanism .tkivc :;:<? allowance for the * si rt:ccptiblc, I do not v c n c i'v r f c.` :i provide the %otre* * iv.iintaiii that the tie thing for to knew. That gives him -Vco: I:: other winds, .. : r*r,: cv.c-vvuratimi t* the .hich :t w \: r.ot make nnv- , *he hvtgif! c: exposure ncees- e-t that per?er. must he cx- V ..fv . u-- y.x.: An ix.-:ancc might he ther factors than threshold vtrn utilized. For example, . ..it industry. :a certain plants . :# known as a sanded plaster g oi'ct.'itic'n "ahere there is much dust. It had been slimin that gypsum dust itself does not cause silim-is o r injury to the lungs. W here there is silica sand, ivc look for that injury to the lungs and the development of tihro.is and silicosis where the exposure is high and continued over a long period of time. Consequently, where about half of tinmaterial used in this operation was silica sand, it was the guess of the engineer that here was a condition which had to he con trolled effectively to keep the du-t coin n i tration down to very low levels. To everyone's surprise, the x-ray exami nations of workers who had liven expo.ml to llivsv operations lor a nmiihi i of y en showed that there was no de\elopiiiyiit oi lilirosis. Further engineering data was collected, and it was found that two things hap pencil. Ill the first plaee. the i;rain si.-, of the sand was rather uniformly la m and well washed. There was no abra-iraction to produce a groat number of fun particles. In the air itself, the concentra tion of free silica was not 50 per cent, or what it was in the main material, hut onh one or two per cent. Finally, laboratory examination showed that where you Ret quartz dust falling, or where you would get gypsum dust settling out of the air fairly rapidly, the quartz dust settled out more rapidly: and the continuation of quartz and gypsum settled out even more rapidly than cither one alone, due to tinfact that the gypsum dust caused agglom erations with the silica dust, and you had largo groups of particles which caused tliimore rapid settling. Now. the data obtained through the medical examination and the x-ray was what gave the hint that the cost and the completeness of the contiol at that i.peratiou was not as great as it would norma lit he thought to he by the engineer walking into the situation C H A I R M A N " J O H N S O N ' : I tliiul: that illustration hinds together these cati-uis points. I have watched that particular study de veloped with a great deal of interest, and. for a fact, the engineers did not know, or did not have to know, anything about the men as individuals: the doctor kept that in his files completely. Now let us summarize for just a mo nient. to sec where we have arrived. .We Occupational Disease Control 13*.) have the doctors and the engineers as the two liases of onr triangle. Our panel feels sanguine that hazards can he controlled. We (enow enough, there is enough knowl edge in the aggregate to control them. We say that the need for a medical pro gram is as vital as the need for an en gineering program; that the doctor ought, to he the plant doctor, augmented hy such specialists as he needs to employ to couti sel with him; that they have a certain amount of tactual information that they must turn over to the hygienist or en gineer for his use as a check for his per formances, ami that the medieal crowd should tell the engineering rrowil how low the hazard must he taken to consider it reasonably safe; that the engineers are perfectly willing and aide to tackle the hazard in some fashion if they know those things; and the periodicity of the exami nation to liml out whether the engineers did a jol> or not depends upon the rondilioos as the doctor finds the record written in the men themselves. Of course, the engineers are going to continue to use the instruments of survey to check their own results. Now I am going down to our printed program and explore some of the ques tions suggested there. T he panel will dis cuss phases of exhaust systems. Arc there in the engineering catalogues, data de scribing machinery of one kind or another to make it possible *for the engineer to design an exhaust system if he wants it. or thinks he needs it? Arc there enough high grade, glorified vacuum cleaners on the market to pick one out of the catalogue ami install it in the plant, and expect it to produce results? Dr. Xfoitcr. will you develop your thoughts on present market conditions of tailor-made exhaust systems as against engineering design of exhaust systems to lit tin- individual plant rircm n-lam V '.' Exhaust Systems DR. M E f T F .R : In my opinion, there is not available ready-made exhaust ventila tion equipment. The assumption that you can select from a catalogue and ventilate your problems has been a great drawback in the progress of this work. Hy that T mean this: O ftentim es a co n cern will have, say, a local tin worker. They call him in and he. without know ing what the requirements arc o f 'th e State Code, without knowing the limns to which the gas, dust or fume lias to be exhausted, immediately sets about and de signs a bond. Then, without even knowing how much air can lie handled hy th at hood, lie looks into the classified section of the telephone hook and calls tip the fan company. The tan company has a salesman, Imt lie is not in. so the office girl looks up the technical data, and the company ships the fan. W hen this ventilating system is finally installed, the sheet metal worker says. "Well, the sheet metal w ork portion of it is all right, ami that is all I guarantee." Then the fan company, oil the other hand, says that the fan delivers a certain volume of air at the speed shown ill their catalogue, so they wash their hands of it. And finally. when the whole th in g is in. it does not work and a job has been poorly done.1 So the point I wish to make is that ventilation, no matter how simple, requires technical knowledge and technical instru ments to determine when the sy-tetn is really working. C H A IR M A N J O H N S O N : I think Dr. Mcitfr has put his linger on a very critical point. When I speak about engineering control. I mean engineering control, and i! do not mean tinsm ith control, i.et me illustrate. Sander talked about the metal limit fever, zinc shakes. Visualize, if von will, the problem of a shipyard building de stroyers for the L'nited State.s Navy of galvanized sheet plate, with a great deal of electrical welding w ork to lie lone in confined spaces, in the little tanks ami cells of which the ship is constructed. T here is a plant set up in the field, you might say. lying for nearly a year at its fitliiig-ont liasin, a little plant a b o u t .'25 feet long and .10 feet wide, 25 t.> .>0 feet molded depth and heaven only know; how many tanks in it (they get down to pretty small sizes) with welding to lie lone in most. In those confined spaces welding, steam-fitting and electrical work m ust lie done. Can you imagine a tailor-made ven tilating system being used there? Now let us go to the next question, pro tective cream s and lotions. T.rt us have clearly in mind that a cream or a lotion is smeared on the skin for a purpose, and Mu National Safety Cooyress a*uall> the purpose is to prevent the m<derate am ounts of som ething or other from coining into contact with the shin. These creams and lotions are of two kinds, those that arc water soluble for use in oily exposures, and those which arc oil M'hihlc for use in aqueous exposure. This u>c n i cream. 1 declare arbitrarily. C hairm an of this party, is not in lien of any oilier control* These creams are n-ed because controls cannot he made ilbitlm c. and because there arc .sensitive kin* to he taken care of. Dr. ('ranch, would you like to dNeuv* the effectiveness and the use of creams, iroin the viewpoint of the doctor who lias i cnl;-cy< d purchasing agent who buy* in oil soluble when he wants a water -duble, and vice versa? Protective Creams and Lotions DU. C H A X t.ll: I think you have larted somethin}'. Protective creams cer tainly have a field in the protection of `kin from various irritant .substances. I would put far ahead of the use of protec;ive creams, however, good personal hygiene and thorough cleanliness on the part of the worker. W here that is ob tained. the <(iu'*tioti of protective creams is ot le-M-r importance: sometimes uegativ o importance. There are certain exposures, however, where no amount of personal hygiene or cleanliness is enough to protect from pos sible harm. Therefore. we do have a place to. protective cream* of the two classes Mr Jo h n so n has just mention 'd. lYimnry in the consideration and "elecion ol any cream, of course, is tile nature u the exposure. If it is on an oily suh*r;.nct\ wc must use a water soluble `ream which will form a coating over tin *kiit and resist the penetration of the oilv man rial And. on the other hand, if it i- a watei 'o h d d e Mihstaiuv from which we must have protection, we must have an ol> ha* in the protective cream. T h e lir-*t consideration, then, is (li.it tin c u a m itself shall not contain an irritant. T h a t incidentally opens up the whole field if allergy. There arc many people sen sitive to certain of the common ingredients used in many of these protective coatings. They can probably only he discovered by means of a patch test 01 by actual vxptri cnee in the use of the cream. In that east, some other m eans of protection must he adopted, nr the man assigned to other work. 'Hie great proportion of creams now on the market appear to he reasonably free from any irritants or substances that are particularly likely to bring about an al lergic traction. T h e main thing is to "t ha t the one designed for the type of protec tion required. These cream?-*, we have found, are often ctm ddcraldv abiiM-d. Men seem to think, in many places, that the cream has to Inapplied in a coating that by its mechanical thickness to the naked eye wrll protect the skin. I have seen a man put on a quarter of a pound where half an inch squeezed out of a tube would probably have answ ered the* purpose. In that case, they often run into other difficulties. Many of these creams which protect from oil substances, arc cream* which have a soap base: the men arc simply running around in a soap poultice, and they work* up an irritation which is as great or in some cases greater than that which would have resulted from the ex posure they sought to pre vent. In the oily cream preparations which protect from water soluble substances, they offer us very queer mixtures. Lamline as a base, I think, is the thing of choice for that type of protection, rather than a p<-trolaimu. It works a lit11 fu r ther into the skin. I believe, and will p ro tect in a more thorough manner than the petrolatum base preparations which jum Miiear over the surface and aie more easily rubbed off and fail in their prole*lion. \m*ther thing to consider i". that the la**! word ha-* 'eilaitlly no! hern "aid o il In o| eel i\ e cream*: they are in (he pin"* ot rather rapid development. I helieva tin re are coiiim<*rcial!y available main suitable types ol protr'tive cream-., ami. n il tin* other hand, they e.ni he made up for a -pecilic purpose very satisfactorily >n ih- advice of yom physician. Vmi can get a very satisfactory cream that can Inproduced in bulk for your own ikc. Respiratory Protection l D A I U M AX J O H N S O N ', w e w;* continue with the discussion of respira- 1 *t W c, I ft,-. lory protection. In connection with the examination of thousands of fotmdrymcn. Dr. Sander lias explored the opera tions which they conduct so that lie knows what they all mean. lie of course has found that sonic of the men arc pro tected hy exhaust systems, and some of the men are protected hy personal body protection, cither filters or the airline type of respiration. 1 interpret respirator)- protection to mean the kind of respiratory protection that you stick onto the man. O f course, it is all respiratory protection, hut f wonder if l)r. Sander would like to discuss whether or not he has found hy the actual examination of men that the satisfactory type of respirator has been found which will actually protect the men. DR;*'S.\NDKR: Ucginning with sand blasters, undoubtedly the modern air hel met affords almost 100 per cent protection for the prevention of silicosis, provided the helmet is kept in pood workitip condition. atu|-.provided the air pressure coming; into the helmet is satisfactory. In tlic observation of about .Kill sand blasters in a seven-year period I have yet to see the first one develop silicosis who had worked only with the modern hel met. Also, I have seen no so-called firststape cases develop a second stage sili cosis during that interval. A first-stage case has been kept at work; he has not been shifted. W e feel that a 's a n d blaster with a m odem helmet is hleallliug less dust than anyone else in tlw foundry as a matter of fact, and there is certainly no point in shifting him out onto the floor, removing his piece of respiratory protection and giving him more dn-t than In- i- getting at his -and blasting job. As far as the other foundry operations are roueerned. of course it is always a d visable to exhaust when possible. There are a few oe< npati.ms that cannot be ex hausted salislaeloril)-. One of these is sand chipping, and where sand chipping must he done, it is advisable for the cliippers to wear the litter respirators. H o w ever. even there it is advisable to try some other method of cleaning the casting if that is all that is feasible--for instance, washing with high pressure combined water and sand, and so forth. With ..rdinari stand grinding, there is no need of respiratory protection, provided an exhaust system is used and is in proper working condition. The exhaust ventilation for swing grinders is a little more' difficult, (mt it lias been accomplished. There are very few swing grinders in Wisconsin that arc exhausted, however. It has been our ex perience that swing grinders have not de veloped as much silicosis as was at first hclirved. and the reason prohahly is that ly the time they get tile castings there iuo more molding sand on them. It has al! Iieen removed first in the grinding wheels with all the artificial abrasive, so the only silica the sw ing grin d er is breath ing is generally plant dust. Mulders and core makers need no spe cial respiratory protection, in m y opinion. A molder just could not do the job very well if lie were required to wear a respira tor from morning until night. I do not think I would depend on a respirator for the protection of the man with -the tuberculous scar. I would rather move him to some other job. or move bis job som ewhere else, o r localize liis job in a -eparale room and ventilate it. I see no reason why we should u o rr\ about a sand blaster today, even with a tuberculous sear. W e feel they are not going to develop silicosis, ami therefore we think that what little du-l there mat lie will have no effect on such a tuh. rrtiloiis sear. We have not permitted sand Masters with tuberculous ears to continue working on that job, Imt I think we should permit them to do so today, knowing that the hazard of sand blasting is controlled provided, of course, the equipm ent is kept in working condition. fl lA I H A l A . V J O I I X S O . V ; That dis-ertatiou answers beautifully the question of n spii alory proteeiioii a- far a- it ap plies to the foundry, and I think direct ana logy will e a r n that opinion over into almost any other exposure th at you choose to carry it into. In Older to play absolutely fait uitli everyone in the audience, 1 am going to start on tile questions that have come to me. and there are quite a number. Here is the first question : Assuming that the development of adequate engin- wring an*l i' I departments is essen- ti.il to control dust hazards, I;,u can flic smaller plants, those having 11Hi or -'Oil cinplo; ccs, cope with this p ro b lem an.I U-tvriuiue whether or not they l.iivo a hazardous dust condition or any other neenpalioii.il disease condition? It would he impossible ill many cases for these small plants to set up elaborate and expensive control departments. T > !e. -I the ails',er in a detinue direeI .on going to suggest that perhaps ;.e a is u .r lies in the recent development auiii.st -very imlustriil state, divisions : . e. upalunial disease hygiene. cither in tlie Department of l abor or the Departn .- - oi II..dill I am sure Dr. Leonard tireentuiie ..mild like to answer that <;::es:ion. The Small Plant Problem DK li R I iK N I U 'RG: T here are ttvo l ::--s that the smaller plant may do: one is to make use of its insurance company to the fullest extent: and the second is to make use of such facilities as the state has at its disposal, either the Departm ent of Labor or the Department of Health. In ipprnxiinately JO states in the Union, ' ere are divisions of industrial hygiene in either the I epartment of Labor or the Department -t Health, and in a few eases In both, and they are always prepared and va-ef t<> help the smaller plant, particu- y with such problems as this. Many of the insurance companies have iie->."'oped divisions of hygiene ami have esp-.rt- on their staff who arc also pre pared and aide to render service along ;v lines. It seems to me that the bige'-- problem is to pet the small plant --.'."...lenient to recognize that the slum- block is management itself. Once that recognitivui has been achieved, it is a relatively simple thing to obtain prnctic.i!!' tree service from either of these ;wy oreanizations in an effort to really d o c -ii-tr-tvlivv preventive work. CH.\1 K M .\X J O H N S O N : Let me add or.e thought to that answer, I am familiar with mo-1 of those divisions. In none of is there anybody carrying a big slick to browbeat or to hammer into shape she small plants that waul help. They aie already giving hell) in an advisory la-hiou. " here has been fear, al limes, that >on eoifld not let a state man into the plant without expecting him to change a recom mendation into an order overnight. I hav. not seen that in this treatment of the occu pational disease problem. I am not telling you that it does not exist; I say I have not seen it. I have here a question for our engineers. Yesterday they were talking about weld ing metal and fume fever, and so forth. Here is the question: Does an exhaust system from electrical welding auVct tin type of weld? As 1 view this question, it means this: \\ lieu yon weld with an eleetrie welding process using a coated electrode, the t'.uxing of the coating produces an umbrella or tent over tbc weld are itself and thereby excludes tbc air from the arc ami prevents oxidation of the steel which is living east into the hole being filled up. and prevents oxidation of any of tile material or metal that is in the fused state. N ow the question is. if you stick a heavy exhaust there and pull away that vapor which provides the protection, do you ruin your weld? Is the control for health at the expense of the weld, or would it he better to forget that and limit the time of the welding? Does anybody here want to answer that ? Mix. H O N S IU ; I think that if you have general ventilation there would he very little danger of destroying that umbrella that Mr. -Johnson has mentioned. Of course, it is advisable to remove those fumes as near the source of origin as pos sible. You have to get within eight inches, and not more than that, to really get rfiieient results, and being that close you do not require more than 100 or 200 lineal feet per million. I do not think there is enough cooling action to do damage. As a matter of fact, some tests we were interested in making seemed to indicate that there was no d am age done. However, you come where the damage would he done* if you exceed that, hut I do not think you need to exceeil 100 or 200 lineal feet per million. If you have general ample ventilation, then you do not have any danger, in my opinion. C HA IRM A N JO H N S O N : That seems to he a logical conclusion. It is ecitainly ;,u opinion based upon ohsei v.ition of that mil t>i.i.ti.M' C .'.i . ' i t . 1- sort of problem. The next question is: run of tire clays; but 1 am not giving-the "Is tin-re enough silica in the average fire brick to affect workers seriously?" In other words, if we explore clay for its refractory property on the one hand, and its plasticity on the other, is then* a descending order of silicosis hazard from the fire brick on the one side, down through plastic china clay or paper clay on the other? Mr. H azard, the questioner want; you to tall: about the amount of hazard in the (ire clay, and for want of a better defini tion let us leave out the Canister brick wliich is a brick the sand of which we know to be pretty close to 100 p e r 'c e n t i ilica. MR. H A Z A R D : I think this is really . medical question. Hut there are certain tire bricks which arc very high in silica. ;nd rertain others which have practically none or a negligible amount in them. You have a range there from what might be called a dangerous condition, down to one where you are practically sure no danger exists. medical answer. It is niy thought, 'that the hazard p rodu ced in the clay products is not an inherent one. hut one thrown in by violent agitation due to dry grinding operations. Let us go on to another interesting ques tion: "To what extent arc the industries with which this panel arc iainiliar pro viding washing facilities, and what arc tile advantages of w ashing in showers, and so forth, accruing to the employees on the one hand, and the employer on the other, and how is the thing paid for?" Well, we know that in some states, washing facilities arc required by law in certain types o f industries, and in others they arc put in. I can visualize the need to develop this question in tw o ways: one tor the con trol of a serious occupational disease ex posure such as lead: and the other, the general industrial hygiene, to get folks to wash on the developed fact that hv care ful w ashing a g reat m an y of the dermatitis problems solve themselves. It seems to me that if you had a fire brick with very high silica content, with Will Dr. Cranch talk about the pro vision of washing facilities? the chipping and knocking of the brick DR. C R A X C II: W ashing facilities are layer against the brick, it might stir up most desirable things in any plant, large considerable dust and might he a silicosis f or small. As the C hairm an has said, it is hazard, but I would like to hear the medi the most im portant factor in the preven cal side on that question. tion of occupational dermatitis, to say C H A IR M A N ' J O H N S O N : Will either nothing of general hygiene to the work-- of the doctors discuss the inherent toxicil; men. of the (ire clays as they arc normally handled in the manufacture of brick? The vicissitudes of trying to c-tiblish any adequate washing facilities in in DR. OiRKI'.Nl'tlKG : It seems to me dustry arc great. My first experience the Chairman ought to tell us what the occurred over forty years ago as a work pel rentage of free silica is in the fire clay. man. In that plant th ere was no water He has talked around the question, hut .available, although it was a large plant, he has not told us the erux of the whole and unless you sneaked from the job and problem. went around to a faucet which was used CHAIRM AN JO H N SO N : The prob lem seems to me to be related to the notion that maybe these mixtures arc so mixed that other things beside the silica produce an alleviating or an ameliorat ing effect to prevent what silica there is for sprinkling the front lawn, you had no water available. It was not expected that hands should he washed. A man worked at his job, ate his lunch, worked all day and went home so black as a rule you could not tell his race. from causing silicosis. I.atcr I became much interested in the Clays do not seem to produce silicosis. development of w ashing facilities. I re It is the dry-pan grinding of all kinds of mem ber in one very large plant we put things that produces enorm ous quantities in excellent w ashin g facilities, and it was of dust some of which contain silica, and surprising to sec bow they were abused I cannot rem em ber at this moment just even to tbc point w here ill some eases we what the am ount of silica is in the ordinary had to discontinue service. In other or- 111 2&'lh Valiamil S a fety (. oiujnss gniiizati.wn, an a(tcui|it on the part ol the management to furnish good washing facilities met with consistent refusal on tin part of the wot kitten to cooperate with them in the use of these things: even where the workmen were given time out at full pay oil company time to wash, they wotiltl not do it. I'ortmintcly. these conditions have changed, and the men tlieinsclecs now a p preciate those facilities where they arc pill in. and they generally demand them w here they are not pm in. I think washing facilities are a most im portant feature in the control of occupa tional diseases, and a number of occupa tional conditions aside from dermatitis. There are a number of occupations where complete showers arc furnished and those facilities arc very largely a measure of prevention of occupational disease: and at tlie beginning of the day's work the men change to working clothes where previously that was not done. Oil Dermatitis ; CHAIRMAN' JOHNSON: another question: Here i- `Is it not an accepted fact that oil dermatitis is more of a mechanical break down of th e skin than it is a toxic p rob lem? How would you overcome the de sire of the employees to use abrasive cleansers on the hands?" Cutting oils and other oils produce dermatitis. and represent three hazards. O ne produces a plucking of the hair follicles, which is largely a mechanical thing of rubbing oil and ilirl. er what have you. into the skin. T hen we have vvliat I think the doctor?, cell hclcrnthcnia. which is probable a chemical burn, an irritation of the skin which is another type of dermatitis Then there is a third one. which produces blood poisoning o r boils where the oil has been supporting an infective medium bacteria of some sort. Can we solve that oil contact problem by handling the washing of men in a satis factory m anner through washing facilities, and the discouragement of the 11sc of harsh abrasive soaps, or doesn't it make any difference? May we have a development ol that piestion from Dr. Grcctiburgr DR. G R E liN H U R G : In dealing with the whole problem of dermatitis due to the use of cutting oil, you arc dealing with several different factors which may produce different types of skin lesions. The cure for all of these, it seems to me. lies in the use of proper protective oint m ent before the men start work in tile morning, and the washing up at the end of each shift wit It the proper type of non irritating soap. The easiest way to get the men to use a nou-irritatiug soap is to supply one so they will not purchase an irritating soap themselves. If you leave it to them, they may purchase one which seems to work rapidly, hut which may have irritating properties. On the other hand, if the management supplies it. they can purchase one of suit able. qualify which in general may he of a more satisfactory type. The whole problem of oil folliculitis and oil dermatitis can he handled and is handled in many plants on a very satis factory basis, by these simple means, and so tar as I can see does not present any insurmountable difficulties whatsoever. The usual defect in the system seems to lie that the plant docs not pay any a tte n tion to the problem until many of the men become infected and many of them have skins which arc more or less ruined hv an accumulation of oil and foreign matter in the pores of the skin At that time, preventive measures are no longer sufficient. It then becomes necessary really to cleanse the skin thor oughly and repeatedly so as to once again bring it hack to its normal d ean comfitiou. C H A I R M A N J O H N S O N : l et nover to the engineering side and talk on the industrialist who manufactures oils to provide himself a meal' ticket and tries to prevent just this hazard from causing trouble. MR. UOXSIM: I agree with much that the doctor has said about getting good nil in the first place. I think that one of the big causes (and I have studied this problem a lot (or the reason that you hear many stories of iniuries due to cutting oils) is that the oil Occupational Disease Control If. is not kept clean. In the cases we have checked the trouble has been due to the use of dirty oil, or using oil over and over again that is filled with small particles of metal. These cause small injuries to the skin, and (hat in turn brings about fu r ther damage. So if yon keep the oil clean, f do not think you will have much trouble. I think the practice of men spitting in the oil and using the oil over and over again has caused much more damage than the so-called paraffin acne. CHA IRM A N JO H N SO N : The next question is this: "Should employees working in departments subject to, occu pational disease hazard lie acquainted with and informed of these hazards, or kept in ignorance of them?" I>k. S A N D IiR : Undoubtedly, e m ployees should he informed of every hazard to which they arc exposed, and they should he informed also of the findings on exami nation. Anyone going to his doctor, for any reason whatsoever, wants to know what was found. In the same way, an em ployee going to a plant doctor wants to know what was found. He is not paying for the examination, but that makes no difference, he is still a human being who is interested in his own health and his future r ears of gainful employment. ( The practice in Wisconsin with physical examinations lias been to give employees a duplicate copy of the report which tieemployer receives. The Wisconsin Indus trial Commissi, in recently published a drill ration of principles on physical ex aminations in industry which everyone in terested in this problem should sec. In that it i- specifically requested th at e m ployees he given a copy of the report which the employer receives. That is not a complete record o r report: it is merely a statem ent or listing of the imp,.riant detects. I believe that it is as wrong to give employees complete re ports as it is to give them nothing at all. A worker is not interested in what his blood pressure reading was yesterday or is today: lie is merely interested in k n o w ing whether or not it is significantly high, and that is all he cares about. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : Is there anybody else on the panel who would like to disru.es the question? MR. RONSIH: I think you can cause more unrest through fear, by failure to tell tbc man. than in any other w a v lie m ay imagine lie lias smut-thing and he worries and worries, and (iiialli become a victim of what is known as autoli) piiosis. w h atev er that is. 1 think by relieving bis mind and telling liitn exactly what is what, yon lilt that worry front him and you ease bis mind, all of which makes a better man of him. C H A I R M A N J O H N S O N : N ow let 11 tackle another question: "fro cessin g of a certain cellulose product involves over night soaking in a solution of .5 per cent formaldehyde, and subsequently consider able formaldehyde odor is given off during the drying of which those ill the vicinity often complain. How much formalde hyde would represent toxic proportion? And how could the quantity present in the air best lie determ ined?'' I >r. Mciter, w ould you like to tackle that problem? I)R. MIvlTKR: In my n u n experience, fo rm aldehyde is irritating enough .o that you would not require refined technical instruments to make determinations, be cause it is very easily noticeable in low concentrations. I think proper engineer ing methods could be devised for elimi nating the fumes without using technical instruments, because it is necessary to keep the fumes down to very low concentration, otherwise a dermatitis may develop and also sore eves. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : Do. th. medical side of our panel wish to develop that any farther? DR. ( RANCH: I think that question illustrates one of the phases where it i< not neeesary to have engineering lu lp in order to determine whether or not yon have reached a point of safely. I-'ormaldehydc vapors are not likely to he toxie. since in a eonrentrated form it is so irritating that just for comfort some relief would he demanded, so that we need not he particularly concerned about what concentration is obtained. T here are a num ber of chemicals of that sort, where the immediate effects are so irritating that toxic exposure would usually he avoided in the course of ordi nary good practice in handling the m a terial. C H A I R M A N .. J O H N S O N : Cook says he has another idea. Warren i . W / . tutill .><// / % l i 'j j MR. C O t . . : The literature does conl.iin some ininrmatiou concerning the de velopment ol irritative actions, and we are wondering in Connecticut whether the Concentrations which were listed in the literature and the irritative action was as sociated with a tolerable am ount of irrita tion, or whether it was in the higher d e crees of irritation. W e ran some analyses on some form al dehyde gas in an operation where form al dehyde was being used in the manufacture of synthetic resin. The method we used was the bubbling of the air of the plant through water, with two bubbling* in a series, and tested with Shift's reagent, the regular method for the determination of formaldehyde; and we got results that were in the area of the breathin g 7.011c of less th an -W parts per million, which is Usually suggested as a satisfactory con centration. At one point we ran it up to 90 or '100 parts per million, and at that point I found I could keep my nose there for thirty sec onds before I decided to hack away from it. lint I do agree with Dr. Crancli and Dr. Mciter that where the irritation does get excessive, then the irritative gas can he taken as the determining factor even though with most of the materials the irritation is not the safe wav to determine w hether a gas coilrlition is o r is not safe. Cl IAI U MAN' JO H N S O N ' ; H ere is am.ther ipiestiou: "I- sulphur dioxide gas in eoiuvntratioiis as tow as 10 parts per million lor p r o longed exposure considered hazardous to I IO' heallh r" I "d u e to the llledieal side, will either Hr tireeuhnr; or Dr Ciaueli lell us if -ulphur dioxide in such low concentration represents a hazard for continuous e x p o sure ? Ills, t I t K If N UIJ K ( i : I cannot sav otfhand. It is just about on the borderline. I think. C: 11AI lxid A N J O H N S O N : Now, if an employee upon examination shows a veryslight increase of lead content above n o r mal after sixteen years of exposure, would you change his occupation? I do not know what a "very slight" amount of lead is. 1 think presumable' this means a few stipple cells, or some thing like that. If an employee upon ex amination shows a very slight increase of lead content above normal after sixteen years' exposure, would you change his occupation? DR. GKEliND DK G: I would want to know where lie showed it, and how. CHAIRMAN' JO H N S O N : If I may answer the question, it seems logical that if there is lead showing up, it came from somewhere, and having explored that you can determine the engineering phase of the control, and perhaps he can stay on the job after you have controlled the lead fumes. Mr. Cook, won't you answer the follow ing question? 'AVliat instruments are there on the market which arc reasonable in cost for small shops to purchase which can be used to check atmosphere's in metal spray work for zinc, iron and other harm ful fumes? Must several instruments he used where many types of metals are sprayed during a working day?" Metal Spraying Equipment MU. COON: On metal spraying, there are several angles. No. 1, a booth, a ven tilated booth should be used where pos sible. Secondly, the man should iu most cases be given a positive pressure air supply. Now, assuming that the particular operation is one in which the man may he spraying brass, there are various methods using the ventilated booth. I .el us assume for the moment that lie is provided with no respiratory protection. If a mail is spray ing zinc and the booth is proi iding ade(|iiate exhaust so there is not much of a 1 loud of /me and he does not gel metal tunic fever, it is probable that it is not necessary to make any deteriuinalion for zinc. If during the course of the dae the man is spraying some lead ami some cad inittin. I would feel very deliniteli that it would lie well to run an cleetriv.il p re cipitator sample, analyze the sample, and obtain the electric precipitation for lead and also for cadmium which would be a routine chemical procedure, and the con centration of both of those should lie kept below the suggested toxic limit in order to assure that you are on the safe side. I would feel that it would not lie neces sary to analyze for zinc under those coil- ililions. or lor oilier of the metals unless there is some additional one that is p a r ticularly toxic. Hut particularly ivhcrc you do have lead or radmiuni, the deter mination should he made for those, and based upon those determinations you can gel an idea on the basis of the relative ditratiou of spraying; of those particular metals what the exposure is. DR. M F IT K R : I atree with Mr. Cook, and I believe the solution of this problem is lim . the use of a properly ventilated booth so as to eliminate the exposure to the oilier workmen in the vicinity. T he second item is the use of a positive pressure airline respirator to protect the operator. I Ihink that condiictin;; nictali/ing operations all over the shop and without adequate equipment. especially w(niFe such metals as lead are sprayed, are going to produce occupational diseases. I believe the proper tiling; to do is to start right with the proper type of equipment, lie providing; the booth and protecting the man, and von will then not need the sampling; devices. C H A IR M A N JO H N S O N : Then the specific answer to the question seems to be the lead precipitator as the one gadg that will he m o s t useful, and the san.tp should lie analyzed qnan'itatit cly iiu tl chemical laboratory. f want to ask the doctor a question i connection with pre-employincut tin : examinations. T h e exposure is somethin that may cause dermatitis. I take it iroi the question th at the problem of allerg; arises. Ho you recommend patch test- ; conjunction with pre-employment exam nations to determine an employee's p. sihlc allergiy to the exposure? DR. C RA N 'CH : In general. I woui say you would hardly be w arranted iu coi ducting patch tests on all applicants t. employment. W here we have a know material to which the employee is Inin exposed th at very comm only produces .-u allergy reaction, it might he advisable l use sttcli a filter. I'atcli tests are not l 1 per cent infallible, and they are not :ill gether simple. T h e y have to lie very carfully given and very carefully inlet pretcFor that reason, they are not ail iiilcgr: part of an average preliminary agrcciiicn upon examination. They might he qmi misleading. 1 ADJOURNM ENT