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CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF CHESAPEAKE, VIRGINIA WILLIAM STACEY OVERBY, versus GARLOCK INC. Plaintiff, Docket No. 20555-M Defendant. Deposition of GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON, held at 516 West Main Street, Palmyra, New York on December 4, 1986, commen cing at 10:00 a.m. APPEARANCES: GLASSER and GLASSER, ESQS. Suite 400 125 St. Paul Boulevard Norfolk, Virginia 23510 Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff By: RICHARD S. GLASSER, ESQ., of Counsel DUANE and SHANNON, ESQS. The Joynes House 209 West Franklin Street Richmond, Virginia 23220 Appearing on behalf of the Defendant By: JAMES C. SHANNON, ESQ., of Counsel ALSO PRESENT: BERNARD L. LEVINTHAL, ESQ. HELEN ZORNOW REPORTED BY: CAROL P. RAES Midtown Reporting Service 1100 Times Square Building Rochester, New York 14614 (716) 325-2130 ciMidtoum (^Reporting (Service 50/ Uinze: cStfuttte 'BuifJmq ijiocfici/ei, aVetv `7/oif 14614 2 INDEXTO________________WIT NESSES GEORGE ELWOOD HOUGHTON Examination by Mr. Glasser Examination by Mr. Shannon 3 -- 106 106 - 107 I NDEX TO EXHIBITS EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION MARKED 1 Four-page document; first page reading "Mr. Bristol" and "Important" 49 2 Asbestos Textile Institute minutes of June 19, 1946 meeting 59 3 March 13, 1946 Dust Control Meeting minutes 64 4 June 13, 1946 Dust Control Committee minutes 67 5 85 pages of documents; first document being "Report Preliminary Dust Investi gation For Asbestos Textile Institute, June 1947" 75 6 Minutes of March 8, 1956 meeting of Asbestos Textile Institute 81 7 Minutes of March 7, 1956 meeting of Asbestos Textile Institute 81 t't, r. ^1*1* /J>r!f t Ptf-i 3 T 1 MR. SHANNON: cn. 3 4 5 6 7 il B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 There is one stipulation. I'll read it from a letter of September 5 to me from Robert Hatton. Paragraph 4 of that letter states, "The deposition of George Elwood Houghton will proceed at a time and place convenient to Garlock and the witness, within three weeks of this date and, of course, we have by agreement abrogated that particular date requirement. And upon completion of such deposition, it shall be placed under seal and not be used under evidence except in cases in which the law firms of Glasser and Glasser or Patten, Wornom and Watkins are counsel of record. This deposition will be noticed in a case in which Garlock is the only defendant and no defense counsel shall attend the deposition other than Garlock'3 counsel. However, in the event that such deposition reveals information which would be relevant and material to the liability of other defendants in asbestos products liability litigation, then in that event, Garlock agrees that the deposition may be czMidtoum czRepoztinq cSezaice SO/ tzRockotci. cStfujtzc `Buildiny 14614 5 i MR . GLASSER: nc. 3 rAt 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 If I may make a preliminary comment, as Jim Shannon is well aware, I am associated with Bobby Hatton, and I am aware of both Bobby's letter of September 5, 1986 and Jim Shannon's response of September 18, 1986, both of which you have accurately reported to the record, I do want to make sure that my feelings are known that the letter of September 5, 1986 confirmed a settlement that was made in ten cases in which Garlock was a defendant. These ten cases were either handled by my office or by Bobby Hatton's office or by our offices jointly, and they were pending either in the state of Virginia or in the state of Texas. The provision concerning Mr. Houghton's deposition and that it be placed under seal and other provisions calling for basically a temporary moritorium in discovery were requested by Garlock, were a part and parcel of the settlement procedure, and as Jim has consented to so that we could in fact resolve the differences for the ten plaintiffs that we were csMiJtoum czRepoztinq cSezuice 50/ Dimes cSyunzc (l>ui[Jing szRocficitez, <zNcw *~l/oz( 14 614 8 1 Houghton, H-o-u-g-h-t-o-n. I go by my second name, 2 Elwood. 3Q And today is December 4th, 1986? 4A Correct. 5Q And we are at your home at 516 West Main Street in 6 Palmyra, New York. 7A Yes, 14522. 8Q Mr. Houghton, have you given anypast sworn testimony 9 in any asbestos-related matter? 10 A Yes, we have had the investigations. 11 Q And what type of investigations were they? 12 A I'd say similar to what you're going to carry out. 13 Q And can you tell me about how many times you have had 14 testimony like this that you have given? 15 A I'd say similar. I've been askedquestions. 16 Q Have they been with the presence of a court reporter? 17 A I don't recall any of that being done. 18 Q Were they involving only attorneys from Garlock or did 19 they also involve attorneys like myself who -- 20 A It would be both. 21 MR. GLASSER: Off the record. 22 (Whereupon a dicsussion was held off the record.) 23 Q Have you ever been called upon to give any statements c:Midtoum cRejioztinq cSczvlce SOI `Dimes <]ua~c `Buifding cRocfseslee. cJVeur `TjotC 14614 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7Q 8A 9 10 11 A 12 Q 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 A IS 19 Q 20 21 22 23 attended Philadelphia Textile -- Philadelphia Textile-- no, it was called -- Yes, Philadelphia Textile School was the name of it. Tt was located at Sroad and Pine in Philadelphia at that time. It has been changed from Philadelphia Textile to Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science now. How long did you attend there? That was a three-year course. Did you learn anything during that schooling period about the use of asbestos as a textile? No. Did you graduate from the Philadelphia Textile School approximately 1927? 1927. And following yotir graduation, what was the first type of employment that you had? I moved from school right to Johns-Manvi1le Corporation in Manville, New Jersey. What was the nature of your employment at Johns-Manville or field? I was in the asbestos textile manufacturing which involved fiber preparation, spinning and twisting and weaving asbestos cloths and yarns. ____________________________________ cMidtoum uReportiny (Service 50/ cDtmci ^Square 'BuifJiny uRocfkette*, cflew 146/4 11 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 That was your specific responsibility? Yes, I was there for 12 years, and so I moved from learning the trade and then up to you might say an engineer of various operations. I had exposure to all of the operations from the fiber preparation where fibers were sold as such and spinning into asbestos yarn, carding and twisting, weaving. I became acquainted with braiding, which was in the neighboring department, so I had a pretty broad education; also in safety clothing manufacturing. Primarily, if I understand you correctly, your experience at Johns-Marivi 1 le was with the manufacturing of asbestos cloth and asbestos yarns? That's right. How much occasion did you have to see and be around the machines where the fibers were prepared, spun and twisted in the manufacturirig process? I'd say complete knowledge of the mechanical processes. I was sent to set up textile and instruct people on the handling of the equipment. And did your job responsibility relate to the equipment itself and how it should be set up from an engineering standpoint? czMiJtoian czRepoztinq J^tzvice SOI 'Jimet <S<jua:c 'jSuifJinj cJtcc&Cite', cAta- `IJaiH 14614 15 8Q 9 10 11 A 12 13 Q 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 And they had a standard that they tried to stay within when they were dealing with asbestos dust? Yes. Why was there a standard for asbestos dust in the 1927 to 1939 time frame? That was in the hands of the insurance company and it was not discussed with us. Do you know whether the insurance company that handled and studied Johns-Manvilie was the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company? I can't answer that accurately. It may have been, but it was not my knowledge. Did you ever have occasion to meet Dr. Anthony Lanza? I don't remember that name. You do recall, however, that the insurance companies came into Manville arid made studies and dust counts concerning the asbestos textile operation? I think my answer would be I know they have come in. Do you know, Mr. Houghton, whether the results of those studies were ever published and made available in the literature? Not that I could -- not that I was exposed to, no. Folks up the ladder may have heard it, but I was down Aiidtourn izRcpoztmcj cSezuicc 501 yquase 'Huii'Jtny afiec/ieiiei, cJYeu' T/otf 14 0/4 16 8 9Q 10 11 12 13 A 14 15 16 O 17 18 A 19 20 Q 21 22 23 A low. Your work was primarily at the level where the manufacturing machines were being designed, developed and used? I was associated with the machines producing the material, but I was not connected with the designing of cards or fiber preparation. I did do some design work on looms. Did your design work on the looms take into consideration how to control the du3t that could be cut out by the asbestos fibers that were being spun in looms? Any equipment designed would be to act like a vacuum cleaner but not get in the way of the manufacturing operation of the equipment. And by vacuum cleaner, they had vacuum cleaners in the 1927-1939 period, is that correct? Yes, they had fans and hoods connected with the vacuum, yes. And the vacuum cleaner effect was to remove the excess dust without interfering with the manufacturing process? Yes. We realized that to pick up dust, you had to crMidtown czRepoztinq cSczaice 50/ 'Dimes cSquazc (J$uifding ^.Rocfcetter, <zNeu? Djozt 146/4 17 1 approach as closely as possible to the movements that 2 were taking place to be effective. 3Q And you wanted to remove the asbestos dust from the 4 work environment to avoid any hazards associated with 5 breathing too much asbestos dust? 6 MR. SHANNON: I object to the leading questions, 7 Richard. He hasn't said anything about 8 asbestos dust. He's talked about dust. If 0 you're going to ask why, ask him. Don't tell 10 him. 13 MR. GLASSER: I want to make it very clear that I I 2 have a right to lead this witness, and that I 13 don't think an objection as to leading is 14 appropriate, and I feel that my questions are 15 proper as structured. I understand your 16 objection, and you may object as to form if 17 you feel it's appropriate, and obvioulsy, I 18 would want to have an chance to rephrase it, 19 but I do feel that leading is permissible 20 here . 21 MR. SHANNON: I understand that under the conditions 22 we're working under today. I feel you might 23 be advised to be very circumspect in your cz-Midtoiun czR.epoztincj cSezuice 50/ 'Dima cSquaze cfiochatc', Djoilt 146/4 18 1 leading questions considering Mr. Houghton's 2 age and considering his hearing difficulties. 3 MR. GLASSER: I'm trying but I feel my questions are 4 proper in terms that he is a long-term 5 Garlock employee. 6Q Don't you concern yourself with the lawyers talking. 7 We're talking to the judge who didn't want to come up 8 and brave the snow with us. 9 (Whereupon the reporter read back the pending 30 question.) 31 Q Do you remember my question that I asked before I 12 talked with Jim Shannon? 13 A I didn't have a machine like that, I know. 14 Q bet me repeat ray question as best I can. We were 15 talking about the vacuum effect that was used on the 16 machines. The looms and the spinners were making 17 asbestos cloth, am I correct? 18 A The looms were making asbestos cloth. 19 Q And asbestos cloth was generally about 75 percent or 20 more asbestos fiber by weight, am I correct? 21 A Yes, that's correct. 22 Q And even higher running to 80 percent or 90 percent 23 asbestos percentage by weight. zMiJtown czRcportiny (Service 50/ 'Uima cSatsuze `BuilJUi nj cJZecftcitex. cNcur T/ozi /46I4 19 1A Sometimes 95 percent. 2Q And the concern about the vacuum effect was to remove 3 as much of the asbestos dust as could be done so as to 4 reduce any hazard to the workers who would be breathing 5 the dust? 6A Yes. 7Q And that's because it was known that the breathing of 8 asbestos dust could be harmful fo those who breathed 9 it? 10 MR. SHANNON: I object to that. I think it was 11 known that the breathing of any dust could be 12 harmful to those breathing it, as we know 13 that people who worked in cotton mills today 14 have brown lung and other diseases. I object 15 to your question as it implies special 16 knowledge that this man has about the hazard 17 of asbestos dust, and no such knowledge has 18 been established. 19 Q Mr. Houghton, wasn't it known by you in the 1930's that 20 it was important to limit the amount of asbestos dust 21 that a person breathed? 22 A You're looking at history where people have been 23 learning. We look back and we can see some things we c^^UJtoiun czRepoztinq cSezuice 5 0/ \Jimci cSyuij xe *J}uifJiag szRcc&estez, xzNcu? 146/4 20 1 have been learning over the years; in other words, 2 we've made some sort of progress. We have not been 3 aware all that time of everything that we now know. 4Q I understand, but they knew in the 1930's when you were 5 at Johns-Manvi1le that it was important to try to 6 control and limit the amount of asbestos dust that the 7 manufacturing process was generating? 8A Yes. 9Q And part of your job as an engineer working in the 10 asbestos textile manufacturing was to help with the 11 design to limit the dust. 12 MR. hEVINTHAL: I object to that. It mischaracterizes 13 his prior testimony as to what involvement he 14 had with it. 15 MR. GIiASSER: Jim and I are nodding at each other 16 If we can have one, it will make the sides 17 fair and conform to oxir court rules. 18 MR. SHANNON: That's right. I will have to make 19 the objections. I will make that my 20 objection and we'll proceed. 21 (Whereupon the reporter read back the pending 22 question.) 23 Is that correct? c:'Miatoten czRepoitiny cSezcice 501 'Dimes cStjuaze iBvifJiay cRoc&csleT' cAtew 14614 21 1A 2Q 3 4 5 6A 7 8 9Q 10 11 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 15 16 17 A 18 19 Q 20 21 22 A 23 That's one of the duties, yes. What progress can you describe to me that was made in limiting dust while you were at Johns-Manville? Did you play any role in helping to reduce the dust of the workers? I get confused with knowing that I did more actively work here, but at Johns-Manville, my job was not designing particularly for dust control. And you say when you became more active "here," you mean once you became an employee at Oarlock? I was a superintendent here. And "here" is the Garlock plant at Palmyra, New York? Yes. While you were at Manville, was there any discussion that you can recall concerning the hazard that could occur to a person who breathed too much asbestos? To my position there, I think I did not get in on those engineering discussions. Can you tell me how you learned that there was a standard that you should strive to stay within when dealing with the quality of asbestos dust? I can't give you a good answer when I learned that it would be best to keep it at a certain level. I think cMidtotun <s/Zepoztinc] cSezuice 501 'Jirnes cSquaze `IBuiiJipq ^/ioc/ieiter, czUcu' T/o:/ 14614 22 1 2 3Q 4A 5Q 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q 18 A 19 Q 20 A 21 22 23 probably casual discussions would be the best I could say. While you were at Manville? Johns--Manville. While you were at Manville, did you have any occasion to attend any meetings or educational seminars concerning your engineering expertise relative to asbestos textile manufacturing? No seminars. Practical experience on the job was probably the major -- where I picked up information. Who were, in your opinion, the most knowledgeable people at Manville concerning the need to control dust while you were there? I think Mr. Cannon, Phil Cannon was probably the closest. I don't think you'd have much information from him now. He's deceased? Yes . Did you know Clifford Sheckler? I think I know the name, but I don't think I associated with him any. Did they have a medical department at the Manville plant? cAlidtoum <zRejioztiny cSezuice 501 ^imei cSyuate 'JBuifJmj z-Rocficitct. cNtm n/otl 14014 23 A Later they worked into a need for a nurse, but when I was there, they had a doctor, but most of the medical treatments were made in the office of the factory; very limited medical service at the beginning. Q Were you aware as to whether there had been any Workmen's Compensation suits filed against Manville in the 1930's for asbestos disease? A I was not aware of suits at that time. Q You're aware now that they had suits in the 1930's? A Yes. Q Did you have occasion while you were working at Manville to travel around to any other Manville plant other than the textile manufacturing facility at Manville, New Jersey? A I only picked up equipment at the Waukegan factory when -- This is 1933. I was asked to move equipment from both Manville and Waukegan to the asbestos factory at Asbestos, Quebec. Factory at Asbestos, Quebec was a plant with a number of departments making similar products to those at Manville. Q They also had some mining facilities that Manville owned in Asbestos? A That was the major. What was going on there was there cMidtourn ^Reporting cSczoice SOI \Jtrrzcs cSijua?e `JBuifdmij *iRocfie:Ut, tztfew T/aff 24 mining, but they had set up a production plant there, too, for Canadian product and I was sent up there when they wanted to set up a textile plant, and so I went up there with equipment from Manville and Waukegan, but I saw very little of Waukegan's production. I was just taking some machinery away. Did you help in setting up the layout for the asbestos textile manufacturing facility that was being set up in Asbestos, Quebec? Yes. And you were aware at that time it was important how to lay it out and also to lay it out so that you could control the dust that would be generated? Yes. We -- the cards already had hooding on them. The carding machines? Yes, the carding machines had hooding, so I had them lay out a dust recovery department with fans exhausting the hoods of the cards and blowing into a recovery system so that you weren't blowing the dust over the countryside. And in that fashion, you were able to remove much of the asbestos dust from the work environment and then capture it so it would not, like you say, be blown cz'Uiafotvn <cRepozting cSezvice SOI ^imei cStjuazc 'BuifJmj ^Rochstcz, cA'eu? I$014 25 1 2A 3Q 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 A 22 Q 23 outside the plant to the neighborhood? Yes, it was filtered. How advanced was the thinking at Manville concerning the need to control asbestos dust in the 1930's? They had made good advances. The old system was fans on top of the building, not down where the dust are generated. The dust was in the room. Then when I got there, they had just installed 48 sets of cards with dust recovery systems blowing into a filter house on the roof. And the dust recovery system on the cards was close to the source where the dust was being generated? Yes, completely covering the hooding and the machine; also drawing out from underneath the card, too. Now, while you were at Manville, did you have occasion to see any of their asbestos product manufacturing facilities other than textiles, like the pipe covering? Ye3 . And they also had a pipe covering facility right at Manville? Yes. And were they also using engineering devices for dust control in the other operations, other than textile tZ.fy\idtou.w (zftepozting cSezuice 501 (Dimct cS cATae T/orjf 14614 26 1 3 4 5 6Q 7 8 9A 10 Q 11 A 12 13 Q 14 A 15 16 17 Q 18 19 A 20 21 22 Q 23 A manufacturing? There was some hooding where dry asbestos was handled to feed into mixers. There was hoods over that area. Mostly, though, the recovery systems were connected with the cards and the looms. Did you have occasion during your time at Miinville ever to 3ee the manufacturing processus at another manufacturer's plant? Yes . Can you tell me whose plants you had occasion to visit? Keasbey St Mattison. That was I think at north -- or it was in Pennsylvania, yes. Was that Ambler, Pennsylvania? Yes. And it became -- They were purchased by American Asbestos, so Keasbey St Mattison disappeared and American Asbestos took it over. Do you know whether Nicolet also purchased some of Keasbey St Mattison? I never went to any Nicolet plant in Pennsylvania. I went by the Nicolet mines in Canada, but I didn't visit it. You did not go into the Nicolet mines? No. cMidtoivn tcRepoztiny Service 501 ^Jimea cSqujze ^BuifJiny aRccHes tc~, cNeur ryoz 14614 27 When you went to the Keasbey & Mattison textile plant, how up to date as compared to Manville -- The date? No, how up to date, how advanced were they as compared to Manville in their efforts to control asbestos dust? Keasbey & Mattison were not as advanced as Johns-Manvi lie. What was the purpose of your going to Keasbey 5Mat tison? They wanted me to take a job there as supervisor. I didn't go. Did you have occasion to go to any other asbestos companies other than Keasbey & Mattison while you were at Manville? There's one other I visited, may have been a Raybestos division. I think it's a Raybestos factory but it was owned -- it was a different name. It was in about central Pennsylvania. It was an asbestos textile facility? Yes . How advanced, from what you could observe, was the Raybestos-Manhattan facility? I think they were somewhat similar to Johns-Manvi1le. czMidtoivn cSexaice 5 Of Cftmei eSquate HuitJiay <zR^cfseite~, cWeu: T/ot/ I46f4 28 1 2 3A 4Q 5 6 7 8 9Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A 20 Q 21 22 23 By similar, you mean that they had made some of the same advances to control dust? Hooding and so forth, yes. Did you ever have contact while you were at Manville with anyone from Raybe3tos concerning asbestos or engineering dust control measures? No. It was more observation of the unit. That's all. Not dust control or problems. Why did you go to the Raybestos-Manhattan facility? Was that in the 1930's? It was in the 30's. I'm hazy on that. I was sent there by Johns-Manvilie for some purpose. It may have been for picking up cylinders or equipment. They may have had something for sale, and so other than that, I can't give you an answer. Other than Keasbey & Mattison and Raybestos, do you recall seeing any other asbestos manufacturer's operation? I've seen several after being here, not at Manville. Still at Johns-Manvi1le, another question, did you ever have a chance to see the gasket manufacturing operation at the Manville facility? Yes. cMiatown (^Reporting cSetvice 50/ <D,imei uaz `JZut tJifig czRccbt:tc~m c/tcw 146/4 1Q 2 3A 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 Can you tell us what you observed concerning the gasket manufacturing operation at Manville? Cloth from asbestos textile was shipped to them. There were more than one operation. One was dipping, passing the cloth through a gasoline rubber shamoy and then passing it up through a drying towel to remove the gasoline fumes, so fully impregnated asbestos cloth was made as one of the products that's particularly used in frictioning where two pieces of cloth are pressed together in making a gasket. Then the other method was frictioning and skimming by colander, and a large percentage of the cloth was used that way making slabs. These slabs were used in cutting packing rings for gaskets. They were a punch press type of operation. More cloth was used in either impregnating or in frictioning than used as dry cloth. Dry cloth was used in their clothing manufacturing for safety clothing. They had a plant at Johns-Manville for making gloves and coats and pants for firefighting, working in steel mills, where you were exposed to high temperatures, that they made them. (Whereupon a brief recess was taken.) c^Midtoiun i-Refioztincj cSeu'ict: SOI 'Jimti cSijuu te Building >zRocfie)tcT, cNtio `1/ozC 14 6/4 30 1 3Y MR. GLASSER: (Continued) 2Q Do you recall the names of any of the people you met at 3 the Raybestos facility? 4A No. I might remember it if the names were recited to 5 me, but no, I wasn't particularly familiar with those 6 folks. 7Q Do you remember any names from Keasbey & Mattison? 8A That was 30 years ago. I'm poor on remembering names. 9Q I'm going to shift over now, Mr. Houghton, to Garlock, 10 and I want to ask you first how did you come to be 11 employed by Garlock? 12 A In 1938, the superintendent of the textile plant was 13 Harry Elder and he died. I'm not sure why he died but 14 he died in '38, and they were in need of someone to 1 5 operate the department. They had at least a couple of 16 years of doing the best they could with what they had 17 or Owen Burns was one of the workers and he was in 18 charge when I came here, but Mr. Hubbard, Cecil Hubbard 19 was factory manager. He was later promoted to vice 20 president. George Abbott was president of the company, 21 and I came up here in March of that year and they told 22 me to -- I came in February and they told me to come up 23 in March, so I've been in here, made a good impression cJWidtoivn 'spotting cSetuicc 501 Climei eSquate HuilJiny cRocUnte*. c.Ncuj djoxi 14614 31 1 2Q 3A 4 5Q 6 7A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 on. That was February, 1938 or 1939? It was '39 when I was called in February to examine the place and I came to work in March the 13th. How did you know about Garlock or how did Garlock know about you? There was a fairly good relationship between Garlock and Johns Manville. There was an interchange. There was some people that went from here to work at Johns-Manville and some folks from Johns-Manvi1le had come here, so the companies knew each other. This was in '39, tail end of the depression, and when I told my superintendent, Mr. Cannon, that I had accepted a position here as superintendent, Phil Cannon said to me if there was anyplace other than Garlock, I'd advise you not to go. This was a backside way of a compliment of Garlock, so he didn't stand in my way, but I had already told him I had accepted because I had had a couple of other opportunities to leave and they told me they were glad I stayed at Johns-Manville, so I didn't like -- Usually, when something like that happens, you got a little increase in pay, so I didn't like to keep edging myself up by the saying I got another chance, czWidtotun czRepoztiny cSezuice SOI 'Jimrs cSqua'r 'BuiiJma izRoc&eitt-, cNciv <~lfoxle 14 614 32 -- 1 2 3Q 4 5 6 7A 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q 14 15 16 17 A 18 19 20 21 Q 22 A 23 Q but anyway, he said if there was anyplace besides Garlock, that I'd advise you not to go. You mentioned that some of the people from Manville had come to Garlock and some from Garlock to Manville. Can you help me with any names of people who transferred from one to the other? I know that there was a Bavis whose brother works here, had gone from here to John Manville. He worked in the packing department, then there was another mechanic that moved down there. His name was -- Oh, nuts. He was a very good mechanic. When I'm not thinking. I'll remember it for you. If you remember it, you just advise vis of the name but we'll keep going in the meantime. Had you ever visited any facility owned by Garlock while you were at Manvi1le? No, I didn't know of Garlock until I heard that there was an opportunity here. I may have heard the word but I didn't really know much about it, but I never 3aw Garlock until I came here to visit. You started with Garlock in March 1939? Yes . And that was * in Palmyra, New York, where your home is? cMidtowti ^Reboztina cSczince 501 'Jimei cSquaic CBuifJing cRocHetteT, cTJo~ft 14 cl 4 33 1A 2Q 3 4A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q 16 17 18 A 19 Q 20 A 21 22 23 That's right. What type of facility did Garlock have in existence in 1939? What did they produce in Palmyra? Well, they have about a dozen departments. They make gaskets, folded gaskets, make gasket rings, had panholed gaskets for boilers and then they made varieties of packings, rings and compressed asbestos sheet gaskets. They sell sheeting, but they also punch out millions of disk rings for valve stems or they make felt packings for ball bearings. They make large variety of molded parts in high temperature molding for vulcanizing rubber. They make rubber sheets for sale. They furnish cloth to others to make safety clothing. They now make Teflon products. If we can, going back to the 1939 time frame when you came, were the gasket materials that you described asbestos-containing gasket materials? Some. The folded gaskets, did they contain asbestos? The folded gaskets were rubberized asbestos and then folded together to make multiple-plied products, but most of them were rubberized either by dipping or frictioning, and then they might be made into cJVl'ultotxm czffepoztlnj cSezuice 50/ 'Dime4 c5qtia-.e 'SuifJing <-Rocheii~, cAfav T/orjf 146/4 34 I 'ini nations. And the compressed asbestos sheets, are they the sheets from which gar-si i ' 1` _ if!.- :zo? Yes, most of them in single sheet from a 64 on up to maybe os f r as -in 3, nd l lien l-hoy laminate if they want to go thicker than 8. And the folded gaskets and the compressed asbestos sheets and the packings, did those contain or do you V new the percentage of asbestos by weight in ihose products, the general range? Well, most of time used the commercial blind, which is the 75 percent, and then there would be a good 50 or 60 percent rubber on top of that, so we1 re down now to maybe 30 percent asbestos in some of these rubberized products. And the ones that did not have the rubber, then, would more or less be like the commercial grade of asbestos cloth, roughly about 75 percent asbestos by weight? -SHANNON: I object. I don't think that he said there were any that didn't have the rubber that were used for gasket3. Well, others dipped in maybe Teflon. Again, they're coated. A small percentage might be used in a dry czMidtotvn czRepozttn^ c^czvice SOI `Uime: <Syuazc 'Huifdtny czRoc&eiteT. cNtiv *7/orf 14614 35 1 2Q 3 4A 5 6Q 7A 9 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q 15 16 A 17 19 Q 19 20 21 A 22 23 cloth, but mostly they're coated or impregnated. Am I correct that Garlock Packing Company had been in business for a good while before you came here in 1939? Yes, I guess Garlock was probably about 1990 or somewhere around there. 1997 sound about right? That's somewhere around when it started. I think it started with rubberized fabric using somebody's rubber boots for strings for making packing power plant. The fella was using anything he could get. Finally he used this and it worked, so he moved from the power plant over to making rubber slabs like rubber boots, and from there he progressed into using other materials. When you came to Palmyra, Mr. Houghton, can you tell me overall about how many people were employed? Oh, I don't know, maybe less than 200. 200 . Maybe around Approximately how many of those 200 would have been involved in manufacturing items that contained asbestos? That's kind of a broad figure you're asking. I could say maybe 35 to 39 making the asbestos parts, then the other parts like high-pressure manufacturing and the czAlidtoum szRepoztiny cSezvicc 50/ tSquazt `JhiifJtrtj tiRafieitcT. zzA'euj njozl 14614 36 1 2 3 4 aQ 6 7A 8Q 9 10 A 11 12 13 Q 14 A 15 16 Q 17 18 A 19 20 21 Q 22 A 23 mill and colander, they all handled the products, maybe another hundred there. You're now reaching out into a range of products, so to give you an exact figure, I couldn't do it. The type of asbestos that was used was primarily the chrysutile or the white asbestos? Mostly, yes. And you also had some of the blue asbestos or the crocidolite? A certain percentage of the crocidolite was used. We didn't do any weaving or spinning of crocidolite. That was purchased maybe from Germany. Or Rhodesia? The Rhodesian would be the source but the spinning was done maybe in Germany. The crocidolite, was that used in products other than gaskets or was it strictly used in gaskets? I think it was used where chemical resistance was a major factor because crocidolite is better against acids than the chrysotile. Less corrosive when it comes in contact with -- Yes, it would resist corrosion or resistdecomposition better than the crocidolite. czAlidtoiun 'Repoztinj cSezaice 501 'Dimes cSijuare ^BuifJinq cRocficste*, cNcus Dfoxi 14614 37 1Q 2A 3 4 5Q 6 7 8A 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q 22 23 A Than the chrysotile? Chrysoite. That would be damaged. The blue, which is harsher and not as easy to handle, does resist chemical action better than the -- From the engineering standpoint, what efforts did you observe that Garlock was taking to control dust when you first came aboard in 1939? Quite a lot of work had been done by Harry Elder in improving the dust control over the carding machines. He had done a major job of constructing hooding, but then by the time I came here, Whiten Machine Works had fabricated hoods, wooden hoods that fitted tightly against the cards so the Whiten Machine Works had done a lot of work in improving dust control for cards. In removing dust, you take a lot of vacuum and that actually removes a fairly high percentage of your product, so in manufacturing, you do have to remove quite a percentage. I believe 20, 25 percent has to go up to the filterhouse just as a means of keeping it clean. And then you can recapture what you've got in the fi1terhouse? The filter bags are shaken every day so that material Mtolo/1 czRc^oxtin^ cS exvice SO! imei cStiUiize ^RuiLlin^ cRocficitcz, cJVcur rj/ozU 14614 38 2Q 3 4 5 6A 7Q 8 A 10 Q 31 A 12 13 14 Q 15 16 A 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q 23 falls and is removed once a week. . And Hi I--: i ' he vijr.uu;;: .! tinl ion system that you've described was basically to remove the asbestos dust that was being generated in the manufacturing process? That's right. And you used the same type of engineering both for the chrysotile and for the crocidolite? We did not process any crocidolite. Through carding and through the looms. That's right. We didn't make any fabrics. We bought some yarns for braiding, but those were dipped in oils or greases and then braided. What was your specific job responsibility as superintendent when you started with Garlock in 1939? Run the plant, which included fiber preparation, carding, spinning, twisting, weaving and upkeep of the equipment, purchasing equipment to make repairs when all of these machines subject to wear or breakdown, lubrications, and so forth; you worked up schedules for maintenance. When you came to Garlock in 1939, was Garlock also aware of the need to keep asbestos dust to a certain aMidtoam cRepozting cSezuicc 50/ \Jima cStjuaic "Bui/Jiny aRocfiet/ti, cAtea) T/or/f 14614 39 1 2A 3 4Q 5 6 7A 8Q 9 10 11 A 12 13 Q 14 15 16 A 17 18 19 20 21 Q 22 23 A level? I think the federal requirement was in existence at that time. Were there any laws that you were aware of from the State of New York that related to the work site and dust? I don't recall any New York State law. How would you compare the knowledge concerning the importance of controlling asbestos dust at Garlock to what you had observed at Hanville? I think we were? better here than Manville. I think the dust recovery system was functioning more efficiently. Did your responsibilities as plant manager, superintendent, include keeping an eye over how well the dust control system was operating? I was probably the only one that was closely related to these jobs. I would call the maintenance department for cleaning up once a week or coming in to do any of those operations to keep place working right. It was iny job. Did Garlock have any respirators available for the men who wore working with and around the asbestos? Yes. Those people that worked for the maintenance ///'(//m il K?ep"rtnuf Sr itoo /sJJ. kLLit,~. )}n. Ip, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q 12 13 A 14 15 Q 16 A 17 18 19 Q 20 A 21 22 Q 23 department had to wear the improved mine respirators when they were cleaning up at the end of the week, when they were removing dust from the filterhouses or from cleaning up around the machinery. We used respirators for those men that carried stock. We'd have those box trucks and they would bring the material that had been blended. Rayon and asbestos was loaded into these trucks and brought up the elevator and then brought to feed into the cards, so those men were required to wear respirators during handling of stock by hand. How much textiles were produced, asbestos textiles were produced at the Palmyra plant of Garlock? Oh, I guess it was probably about two million pounds a year. And that was sold commercially? The highest percentage was used within the factory, either in the dipping machines or in the high- pressure manufacturing where they coated it with rubber. So some of it - Host of it was that way. Then we shipped some rolls, but the most of it was internally used. And was any of the textiles that you have described also used to make further products like the Garlock. jtJitlhm'H mu 'titty ,\n'd 1J~ II f-itr'J I gaskgi s? 2A Yes. That was after the coating process. There is 3 very little requirement for asbestos just as a dry 4 cloth. 5 Once* you had made a compressed asbestos sheet out of 6 which gaskets could be cut, you were able to print on 7 that compressed asbestos sheet, am I correct? 8A They would put a label on it, yes. 9Q 10 A And you could put Garlock's name on it? It might be a label, the brand, and a style number 11 might be on there, so it could be identified as a 12 Garlock product. 13 Q And that would be right on the product itself? 14 A That would be printed right on the sheet. 15 Q And Garlock made gaskets iri various light and dark 1 6 colors? 17 MR. SHANNON: You're talking about compressed- 18 19 Q Compressed-asbestos sheet gaskets, what colors did they 20 come in? 21 A Color? 22 Q 23 A Yes, sir. Oh, might be in a black, one a dark gray. They had HUmu tuj . A'lTM/ WW fJimy kLL>i~ i/m tU 42 1 some in the white. 2Q Would that be a white or a 1ight gray? 3A Ii would be off color white. Once you start using 4 white rubber on white asbostoo, you come up with a 5 dirty gray, and they might have a t think they may 6 have used none blue anrl some red. 7Q Now, the style number, does the number 70r'5 ring boll 8 for you from the gasket materials? 9A I was not majorly connected with that, so -- 700`s, I 10 heard those numbers, but I didn't handle them enough to 11 be a good answer for you. 12 Q Am I correct that many of the gaskets produced by 13 Oarlock, but not all, had the name of Oarlock on the 14 mater.icil itself? 15 MR. SHANNON: Again, compressed--asbestos sheet 16 gaskets. 17 A Well, many of the products might have a number and then 18 be boxed in a Oarlock- labeled box. I don't think the 19 word "Garlock" would show on everything that they made. 20 Q I understand, but the name was put on some of the 21 compressed -asbestos sheet gasket material? 22 A Oh, I guess the word "Garlock" showed on some of the 23 sheet, yes. cjViidtoum czftepoztincj cSczoice 50/ \Jimej tSijuazc ^BuifJinq cRcscfiatez, *zNcio (yoi 14614 In the mid to late 40* s, would it be fair to state that Garlock's employees that were exposed to dust, asbestos dust, were aware that asbestos could possibly be harmful to them if they breathed it without necessary protection? Most people do not live in a state of awareness of danger hanging over their head all the time. We had probably more long-term workers .in textile than in most of the other plants. There was no sense of fear in the plant. Was there awareness that it was important to keep the ventilation and exhaust equipment working and to use respirators when you were around asbestos dust? When you were working in a dusty area, yes. Generally, we had a pretty clean department, so the respirators were not worn by everybody. It was only where you were handling dusty material like feeding a card or laying a batch. Were there any programs that you recall, Mr. Houghton, at Palmyra to advise the employees of the importance of keeping the ventilation and vacuum equipment working so that the asbestos dust level in the air could be kept low? - ---- ~~ " " " I cc^/liatouin czRepoztinq (Service 50/ 'Dime* cSquazc cJZoctieitez, cNexo rZ/oz/t 146/4 44 That was responsibility of the supervision. And what did the sxipervision do to make sure that the men were aware of the importance of keeping the asbestos content low? I don't think that generally people are aware of details like that. They depend on their supervision to keep things up to date and keep adjustments right. Now, you make improvements, then it's up to us to see that the improvements are kept in the proper shape, and that was the foreman's job. The superintendent might be checking by casual moving through the department to see that it was being done, but you had foremen that were also responsible. How many buildings were there at Palmyra? Oh, the numbers were something like up to 25. Numbers of buildings is kind of a hard thing to do because here's a shed and it's given a number, so roughly, there were around 25 different types of manufacturing going on. Who was Mr. Bristol? Bristol? Yes, sir. He was in charge of the machine shop, and I guess he cJ\\i<itoum czRepoztiruj c^ezuice 501 CJimet `SuifJina cRvc&titc:. c-Vcur 'TJoxt 14614 1 had yard gang for maintenance of the whole factory 2 outside as well as the tinsmith and the electrical department were all under Bristol. In some of the buildings, for example, Building 35, are 5 you able to identify what Building 15 was or what 6 service was performed there, do you recall, in the 1942 7 time frame? 8A 15? I was in Building 7. 15 I don't think is clear 9 enough in my mind just which it was. 10 In Building 8 or Building 15, in June of 1942, I have a 11 paper which I will share with you, but I want to ask a 1 2 clarification first. A comment was made of the need to 13 remove fumes and impurities on the second floor that 14 were created, generated or released by filling bins 15 with powdered materials. Would the powdered materials 16 being referred to be asbestos? 17 MR. SHANNON: Why don't you let him see the 18 document? It might help. Are you talking 19 about Building 8 or 15? You said both at the 20 beginning of the question. 21 MR. GLASSER: There's a reference, Jim, and I think 22 I'll need his help to clarify it, but I have 23 extra copies of the same document. czMidtotun d'Zepoztinq cSezuice 501 'Jimes cScjtiare `IBuifdinq cJZocfiatet, zNeio 'l/czC- !4 o 14 46 1 2 3 4 5 6A 7Q 8 9 10 A 11 12 13 14 Q 15 A 16 Q 17 A 18 Q 19 20 21 22 23 This is the document, Mr. Houghton, I'm showing to you. At the same time I've got another copy here for your counsel. Let me turn to the first page. I'm going to move back just for a second and it is marked June 5, 1942. Do you see that, 6-5-42? Yes . And it has "Hr. Bristol" then the word "important" and it has some initials. Do you know whose initials those are? I can see a C there, but that number 8 doesn't tell me much. Let's see, I don't know whether that might be D. R. Hubbard. C. R. Hubbard was the vice president in charge of the factory, the molding department. If you will turn to the next page -- It like3 like Frisboe Walborth. That looks like who? This looks like Walborth. This might be a signature from the indtistrial commissioner. What I wa3 questioning, if you look at the paragraph numbered 1, it talks about the need to "Provide an exhaust system to remove fumes or other impurities from your factory on second floor, created generated or released by filling bins with powdered czMiatoion <zRepoztiny cSczutce 501 \Jimet tSqvaie HuitJing cJixkcitc-. c/Jcw <7/orv !o!4 47 1 materials." Do you see where I read that? 2A Yes. 3Q Is the powdered material that they're referring to 4 there asbestos? 5A It sounds like it may be where they were making up 6 compounds, second floor. 7 MR GLASSER: Jim, to answer your question, it says 8 Building 8 and 15. 9 Manufacturing didn't do much blending on the second 10 floor. That was blending in the basement. 11 Q Nov;, with regard to that on the basement, look with me 12 at paragraph marked number 2. Here the direction is to 13 "Construct and locate hood so that dust from grinding 1 4 gaskets will fall or be drawn into the hood," and then 15 it has a parenthesis, "(gasket grinding machine - 16 basement - building 8 and 15.)" 17 A They had a mill in the basement for re-- well, they 18 would chop up gasket trimmings to be reprocessed in the 19 mixing, gasket grinding. There might be some type of a 20 gasket tolerance that required a certain thickness, and 21 then they would put it through a grinder which would 22 have a surface grinding operation. That could make a 23 rubber dust and be a nuisance and it could be a fire cZ Miatown c^Repoztinq cSezuicc 501 'Jtmci cSauate iBuifJinq <^Rocfiesie~t tzNcu? 14614 48 1 2Q 3 4 5A 6 7Q 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 A 19 20 21 22 23 hazard if you didn't keep your machinery clean. Do you have any recollection of a document such as this being delivered to the Garlock Packing Company by the Department of Labor? No. I being not connected with maintenance, I would not see any report like this. Can you Identify the writing that appears on the lefthand margin of page 2 of this exhibit? No. If any direction ororder were given tothe plant to collect certain fumes or grindings that were escaping into the 'work environment, would those have generally been brought to your attention? No. Areyou aware that in the 1942 timeframe, there were documents such as this received by the Garlock Packing Company at its Palmyra plant? They wouldn't have come to me. I was not in the health department. The problems of textiles would come to me. In fact, only to me because it was -- if I needed any help, I'd go to maybe Bristol for electrical or other upkeep business, but for the maintenance of dust control was mine, designing was mine. c^MidtoLvn czRepozting cSezaice 501 Jimes cSquaze Building czRocticiitt, cNzuj n/ozt f46f4 49 1Q 2 3 4 'RJ 6 7 e 9Q 10 11 12 13 14 A 15 16 17 .18 Q 19 A 20 Q 21 22 23 A Thank you, Mr. Houghton. I'm going to give this to the court reporter and ask her to identify that please as Houghton Number 1 so they can see what you and I were sharing and talking about. (WHEREUPON HOUGHTON EXHIBIT 1 - Fourpage document; first page reading "Mr. Bristol" and "Important" - WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) When problems were brought to your attention that needed correcting as it related to the vacuum system or the need to keep asbestos dust low? What sources of information did you have to turn to in addition to your own past experience? We had a very good man, a John Kattenack, who was a big help in designing dust recovery systems like a cyclone, and he was the one I would go to, and he was very helpful. Is he available today? No, he's also in the ground. Was there anyone at or available to you at Garlock who kept up with industrial hygiene or medicine as it related to the asbestos hazard? I think not. czA/lidtoiun czRepoztinp (Service 501 'Dima ^BuifJing czRcc&atez. uNeio HJazC 14614 50 1Q My question is had you any time, say, in the 1930's, 2 while you were at Manville or in the early part of your 3 career at Garlock heard of Dr. Merewether over in 4 England and the studies that he had done on asbestos 5 textile plants over there? 6A I think my answer is no. 7Q I'm going to show you, and it's a thick document 8 consisting of 34 pages, biit I'm showing it to you just 9 to 3ee whether or not that in any way refreshes your 10 recollection. This is only a photocopy of what the 11 document was. 12 MR. SHANNON: Can we identified it for the record? 13 MR . GLASSER: For the record, I 'm showing hint the 14 "Report on the Effect of Asbestos Dust on the 15 Lungs and Dust Suppression in the Asbestos 16 Industry." It is a two-part paper by E.R.A. 17 Merewether and W.C. Price. It is dated 1930. 18 A One shilling, three pence. No, I did not know of him, 19 and the report that this covers did not come to me. 20 Q I thank you, and I will show you another report and ask 21 you whether you have seen or heard of this. 22 MR. GLASSER: For the record, this is an United 23 States Treasury Department Public Health cMidtown cz.Repoztina cSezaice 501 'Junes cSejuaze ^BuiUinj (^RocficaUz, cNcu? <ri]ozC` I4&/4