Document gL2GOgggjxJKgwG2L0ovgQ83

^ - 3 #>- 1 ' 2 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY 3 LAW DIVISION: MIDDLESEX COUNTY 4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------;-X 5 DEBBIE ACCETURO, individually and as 6 Administratrix and Administratrix ad 7 Prosequendum of the Estate of Vincent 8 Acceturo, 9 Plaintiff, 10 -against- Index No. L-6601-99 11 ABEX CORPORATION, et al. 12 Defendants. 13 -x `14 15 16 DEPOSITION OF BRUCE KETCHAM 17 New York, New York 18 Tuesday, February 20, 2007 19 20 21 BRODY DEPOSITION SERVICES Certified Shorthand Reporters and Videographers 22 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 Woodbridge, New Jersey 07095 23 (732) 283-5737 24 25 Page 1 L Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 2 1 Ketcham 2 Ketcham APPEARANCES: 3 PICIU.0 CARUSO & OTOOLE, ESQS. 4 5 6 February 20, 2007 Attorneys for Peter Paul Auto 371 Franklin Avenue 7 10:05 a.m. 8 98 10 Deposition of BRUCE KETCHAM, held at the 9 11 offices of Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman, 1633 10 11 12 Broadway, New York, New York, pursuant to notice, 12 13 before Judith A. Frost, a Shorthand Reporter and 14 Notary Public of the State of New York. 13 14 15 15 16 16 17 Nutley, NJ. D7110 BY: CLAUDIO STANZILA, ESQ. (by telephone) SMITH ABBOTT, LLP Attorneys for Pneumo-Abex, LLC 115 Broadway New York, New York 10006 BY: ILEA MANISOJLCO, ESQ.(by telephone) McGIVNEY & KLUGER, PC Attorneys for Cambria Automotive 23B Vreeland Road 18 17 19 Florham Park, New Jersey 07932 IB 20 BY: WILLIAM SANDER, ESQ. (by telephone) 21 19 20 KELLEY JASONS McGOWAN SPINELU & HANNA, LLP 22 21 Attorneys for Carlyle Corporation 23 22 5D South 19th Street 23 Two Liberty Place 24 24 Philadelphia, PA 19102 25 25 BY: JOSEPH W. McGUIRE, ESQ. (by telephone) Page 4 Page 3 Page 5 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 22 3 APPEARANCES: 4 5 KEEFE BARTELS, ESQS. 6 Attorneys for Plaintiff 7 830 Broad Street 8 Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 9 BY: PATRICK J. BARTELS, ESQ. 10 11 kasowttz benson Torres & friedman, llp 12 Attorneys for the witness 13 1633 Broadway 14 New York, New York 07702 15 BY: JOHN C. CANONI, ESQ. 16 17 BRZYTWA QUICK & McCRYSTAL, ESQS. 18 Attorneys for Defendant Eaton Corporation 19 1660 W. 2nd Street 20 Cleveland, Ohio 44113 21 BY: HARRY T. QUICK, ESQ. 3 INDEX 4 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE 5 Bruce Ketcham Mr. Bartels 6 EXHIBITS 7 8 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE 9 Exhibit 1 Flow charts 51 10 Exhibit 2 Memo re asbestos labeling 68 11 Exhibit 3 International engineering report 75 12 Exhibit 4 Memo re asbestos labeling 76 13 Exhibit 5 Service parts book 95 14 Exhibit 6 Slide presentation 101 15 Exhibit 7 One page document 115 16 Exhibits 8-11 Technical service aids 121 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 2 (Pages 2 to 5) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 6 Page 8 I i Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 U IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED 2 Q When was that? 3 by and between the attorneys for the 3 A It was last November, I believe. , respective parties herein, that filing and 4 Q Do you know what state it was in? 5 sealing be the same and are hereby waived. 5 A Where the suit was filed? 6 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED 6 Q Yes. 7 that ail objections, except as to the form 7 A Kentucky. 8 are reserved until the time of the trial. 8 Q I'm going to give you some preliminary 9 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED 9 instructions. You have had your deposition taken 10 that the within deposition may be sworn to 10 before, and if you have any questions further you II and signed before any officer authorized to 11 can ask me, but obviously you know that you are 12 administer as oath, with the same force 12 under oath now. 13 and effect as it signed and sworn to 13 Do you understand that? 14 before the Court. 14 A Yes. 15 15 Q You understand that the court reporter 16 16 is taking down everything we say? 17 17 A Yes, I do. 18 18 Q I'm going to ask you a series of 19 19 questions and I would ask you to listen to the 20 20 following instructions. Number one, it is listen 21 21 carefully to my questions. If you don't understand 22 22 my question it's okay for you to say I don't 23 23 understand the question and I will repeat it until 24 24 you do understand. 25 25 Do you understand that instruction? Page 7 Page 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 BRUCE KETCHAM, called as a 2 A Yes. 3 witness, having been duly sworn by a 3 Q Once you do understand the question 4 Notary Public, was examined and testified 4 answer as accurately as you can. 5 as follows: 5 Do you understand that? 6 EXAMINATION BY 6 A Yes. 7 MR. BARTELS: 8 Q Would you state your full name for the 7 Q If I ask you a question and you answer 8 I'm going to presume that you understood the 9 record. 9 question and you answered it to the best of your 10 A Bruce Ketcham. 10 ability. 11 Q Mr, Ketcham, have you ever had your 11 Do you understand that? 12 deposition taken before? 12 A Yes. 13 A Yes, I have. 13 Q If you need any time for a break, it's 14 Q Can you give me an approximation of 14 okay to ask for a break. My only instruction is 15 how many times? 15 under the rules you are not supposed to ask for a 16 A Approximately 20 times. 16 break while a question is pending. 17 Q I don't want the specifics, but can 17 Do you understand that? 18 you kind of estimate for me how many of those 20 18 A Yes. 19 times had anything to do with an asbestos case? 20 A Perhaps five. I think there may be 19 20 Q Are you presently employed? A Yes, I am. 21 some information in the discovery response. 21 Q How are you employed? 22 Q Do you remember the last time you 22 A By whom you mean? 23 appeared for a deposition relating to an asbestos 23 Q By whom are you employed? 24 case, a personal injury asbestos case? 24 A Iam employed by Exponent, 25 A Yes. 25 Incorporated. Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 3 (Pages 6 to 9) 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 10 ' 1 Ketcham 1 2 Q How long have been employed by . 2 3 * Exponent? 3 4 A Since 2000. 4 5 Q What is your business with Exponent? 5 6 A I'm a senior managing engineer. 6 7 Q Where is Exponent located? 7 8 A My office is located in Farmington 8 9 Hills, Michigan. 9 10 Q What is the business of Exponent? 10 11 A Exponent is an engineering and 11 12 scientific consulting firm. 12 13 Q What kinds of things do you do? 13 14 A Most of my work is involved in 14 15 investigating heavy truck accidents and fires, and 15 16 occasionally dealing with product safety 16 17 investigations and the litigation consulting that I 17 18 do. 18 19 Q Is that the capacity you are appearing 19 20 in here today as a litigation consultant for Arvin 20 21 Meritor? 21 22 A That is correct. 22 23 Q Prior to working for Exponent what was 23 24 your job just prior to that? 24 25 A I worked for Meritor Automotive. 25 Page 12 Ketcham assisting in? A It could range from accident crashes investigations to asbestos claims. Those types of matters. Q Prior to starting with the automotive section in 1997, where were you employed? A Prior to working for Meritor Automotive? Q Yes. A I was employed by Rockwell International. j Q How long were you employed by Rockwell International? A For approximately 19 years. Q When did you first start working for Rockwell? ; A In 1978. Q Then again how long did you work with Rockwell? A Until the automotive business became : Meritor Automotive, so up to September of 1997. i Q Prior to beginning your work with j Rockwell in 1997, were you employed? 1 A Yes, I was. j Page 11 Page 13 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham \ 2 Q How long did you work for Meritor 2 Q Who were you employed with? 1 3 Automotive prior to joining Exponent? 4 A Approximately three years. 5 Q Where was your office located while 6 you were working for Meritor? 3 A I was employed by the General Electric 4 Company. 5 Q For how long? 6 A Approximately six years. : 7 A In Troy, Michigan. 8 Q What was your job with Meritor during 9 those three years? 10 A I was the manager in product analysis. 11 Q So I can get the dates right, when did 12 you first start working for Meritor at that 13 location? 14 A It was in October 1997. 7 Q So that would mean you started in 8 approximately 1972? 9 A That is correct. 10 Q During the time that you worked for GE 11 what was your job with them? 12 A I had multiple jobs. 13 Q Can you just generally tell me, were 14 they all the same type of jobs with just different ; \ ' : ] 15 Q So then you worked until about 2000; 16 is that right? 15 job titles, or were they different job titles in 16 different locations? 17 A Correct. 17 A Prior to 1997? 18 Q What was your job with Meritor while 18 Q When you were employed in any ; 19 you were there for that period of time? 20 A When I was with Meritor Automotive? 21 Q Yes, I'm sorry. 22 A I was the manager of product analysis 23 and I had responsibilities for assisting inside and 19 capacity. 20 A I was a full-time student. 21 Q Where were you a full-time student? 22 A At Union College. 23 Q I assume you graduated from Union j 1 i j ! 24 outside local counsel in product litigation claims. 25 Q What kinds of product claims were you 24 College? 25 A Yes, I did. ... ,, r ! j . -3 4 (Pages 10 to 13) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 14 Page 16 '1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q What kind of degree did you graduate 2 line. 3 with? 3 Q What was being made there? 4 A I had an undergraduate degree in 4 A Electrical ranges. 5 electrical engineering and industrial economics. 6 Q When you first started working with 5 Q Then what was your next position? 6 A Then I was in advanced purchasing in 7 the GE company what was your job title? 7 refrigeration products. 8 A I was in their manufacturing, 8 Q Again did you have another position 9 management training program which consisted of four 9 after that? 10 different jobs in two different company locations. 10 A I came off the program then and went 11 Q Were you training for any particular 11 to Chicago and I was the systems analyst that I 12 area within GE, any particular product? 12 described before. 13 A It was a manufacturing manager. 13 Q Was that your last position with GE? 14 Q What other positions did you have with 14 A No. 15 GE after you went through the training program? 15 Q What was your next position? 16 A After the training program I came off 16 A It was inventory control manager in 17 the program and was, I believe it was a systems 17 that particular business. 18 analyst or a manufacturing systems analyst I believe 18 Q What did you do as an inventory 19 the title was. It's a ways back. 19 control manager? 20 Q Can you tell me each of the jobs you 20 A The people that worked for me ordered 21 had with GE during the six years you were there? 21 material into the factory. 22 A Certainly. My first job was a methods 22 Q What kinds of material? 23 specialist in Schenectady, New York in the utilities 23 A Material that was used to manufacture 24 operation, which was basically the department that 24 commercial cooking equipment. 25 took care of all of the common utilities that were 25 Q Did you have another position after Page 15 Page 17 , 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 being used at the factory site which was fairly 2 that? 3 large. 3 A No. 4 My second job there was as a 5 production control specialist, 4 Q That was your last position? 5 A The last position with General 6 Q What did you do as a production 6 Electric, that's correct. 7 control specialist? 7 Q Do you recall the reason for your 8 A I scheduled valve production in large 8 moving from General Electric to Rockwell? 9 steam turbines. 9 A Better opportunity. 10 Q What was your next position? 10 Q Prior to moving to Rockwell, had you 11 A I think I took a break, if my 11 ever had any experience working in the automotive 12 recollection is correct, and I was in active duty in 12 industry? 13 the U.S. Army reserves for six months. 13 A No. 14 Q When you came back what did you do? 14 Q Prior to moving to Rockwell, did you 15 A Let me correct one thing. I believe 15 ever have any experience in the truck industry? 16 the production, I had the methods specialist job and 16 A No. 17 then went into the Army for six months and then came 17 Q Your first position with Rockwell, can 18 back to Schenectady as a production control 18 you describe what it was? 19 specialist. 19 A Sales order manager. 20 Q What were you doing? Did you already 20 Q Where was your office at that time? 21 describe that? 21 A In Florence, Kentucky. 22 A I already described that. 22 Q How long did you remain as a sales 23 Q What was your next position? 23 order manager? 24 A My next position was in Louisville, 24 A Approximately six months. 25 Kentucky where I was a foreman in the range assembly 25 Q What was your next position after Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 5 (Pages 14 to 17) 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 18 Page 20 ^ 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham j 2 sales order manager? 2 position? i 3 A Purchasing manager. 3 A In Troy, Michigan. ; 4 Q Again where were you located as a 4 Q How long did you stay as a manager of i 5 purchasing manager? 5 product compliance? 6 A In Florence, Kentucky. 6 A To 1993. 7 Q How long did you stay as a purchasing 7 Q What was your next position with : 8 manager? 8 Rockwell? | 9 A Approximately three to four years. 9 A I.was a manager of product analysis. i 10 Q After you completed your time as a 10 Q Again, In Troy, Michigan? 11 purchasing manager what was your next position? 11 A That's correct. | 12 A Production control manager. 12 Q For how long did you remain in that 13 Q Again where was your office located 13 position? ; 14 when you were a production control manager? 14 A Until 1997. 15 A Florence, Kentucky. 15 Q So what was the time frame again, it j 16 Q How long did you remain as a 16 was about 1983 to 1997 in that position? 1 17 production control manager? 17 A That's correct. j 18 A For approximately two to three years. 18 Q What happened In 1997? 19 I left that position at the end of 1984. 19 A Rockwell International spun off the i 20 Q What happened in 1984 approximately? 20 automotive business of Rockwell and it became a 1 21 A I transferred to the automotive 21 separate company which was called Meritor 22 headquarters in Troy, Michigan and changed job 22 Automotive. i 23 assignments. 23 Q Did you go with Meritor Automotive? j 24 Q What was the name of your title at 24 A Yes, I mentioned that earlier. j 25 that point, what was your title when you moved? 25 Q In automotive did that include heavy j Page 19 1 Ketcham 1 2 A The last job in Florence? 2 3 Q No, the first job in Troy. 3 4 A The first job I was the division 4 5 materials manager for the on-highway axle division. 5 6 Q You were in Troy, Michigan? 6 7 A That's correct. 7 8 Q How long did you stay in the highway 8 9 axle division? 9 10 A The division materials manager? 10 11 Q Yes. How long were you in that 11 12 position? 12 13 A Approximately three plus years I 13 14 believe. 14 15 Q So approximately in 1987? 15 16 A I believe it was 1988. 16 17 Q What was your next position with 17 18 Rockwell after that? 18 19 A I was the manager of production 19 20 compliance. 20 21 Q By the way, do you happen to have a CV 21 22 with you? 22 23 A No, I don't. 23 24 Q When production compliance began where 24 25 was your office located when you were in that 25 6 (Pages 18 to 21) Page 21 Ketcham ! trucks? | A That Included the manufacture of components that were used in heavy trucks, that's : correct. ; Q What I want to do is go back now and : discuss starting with your time as a purchasing j sales order manager at Florence, but before I do ; that can you describe what facilities were at ; Florence during the time that you worked there? ; A Florence was an after-market distribution center. i \ Q Describe what that is. j A It distributes after-market parts, j replacement parts and service parts to the various j original equipment manufacturers that Rockwell sold, 1 heavy vehicle and medium truck and off-highway vehicle components, as well as the after-market j ] distributors of Rockwell's products. Q Is that a factory or merely a supplier 1 j where these products were being shipped out across ] the country? ] A It was primarily a distribution center I in which products came in and were packaged and in ] some instances boxed and shipped. i --, __ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - 1 Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 22 Page 24 | 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham : 2 There were limited assembly operations 2 the early days and in that period of time when I was . 3 and that changed a little bit over time. 3 the sales order manager. j '4 Q You were there in this position for 4 Q How did the after-market division 5 approximately six months in 1978? 5 differ from Rockwell at that time when you first 6 A That is correct. 6 started a division that was solely responsible for I 7 Q Did you have any sales 7 off the OEM's? j 8 responsibilities? Did you have any customers while 8 A They had multiple divisions for OEM j 9 you were in the six month period or, in other words, 9 production. ; 10 describe what you did. 10 Q Specifically brakes assemblies and 11 A I managed the sales order function at 11 kits and things like that? 12 Florence which basically was handling the customer 12 A Brake assemblies, that's correct. ; 13 calls, inquiries and orders for services parts for 13 Q Describe what a brake assembly is. I 14 the various customers that we had. 14 A Brake assembly, it varies by the 15 Q Were you assigned to any particular 15 particular type of brake that it is, but if I can ; 16 customers? 16 generalize and just talk about an Ascam brake, : 17 A No, my people had responsibility for 17 certainly there are a bunch of different brake i 18 all the customers. 18 assemblies from disk brakes and things of that ! 19 Q Do you recall who the customers were 19 nature. \ 20 when you were working as a sales order manager? 20 From the Ascam brake, the brake 1 21 A There were literally hundreds of them. 21 assembly would typically consist of the shoes, the j 22 Q Let me ask you this. This 22 line shoes, the springs the mounting plates that it \ 23 after-market distribution center, did it also 23 was attached to, brake speeders, rollers, springs, ; 24 include the distribution of truck brakes? 24 camshafts, slack adjusters. Sometimes it included 25 A Truck brake products, yes. 25 brake chambers. ; Page 23 Page 25 : l Ketcham 1 Ketcham i 2 Q When you say truck brake products, 2 Q Prior to your deposition today, did ; 3 what do you mean? 3 you review any written documents to help prepare for 4 A It could be anything from the 4 the deposition? ; 5 completed foundation brake assembly to individual 5 A Yes, I did. ; 6 components that were used on the medium and heavy 6 Q Can you describe for me what you ; 7 truck brakes. It could include the shoes. It could 7 looked at? 8 include linings and aligned shoes and it could 8 A I looked at some of our matters, past 9 include kits and individual parts that were used in 9 discovery depositions in the case. I scanned 10 the foundation brake assemblies. So a diverse group 10 through a few depositions from the cases. ; 11 of components. 11 I looked at a few new maintenance i 12 Q Do you recall the names of any of the 12 manuals and other documents. ; 13 OEM truck companies that you serviced as a customer 13 Q Do you remember what kinds of 14 when you were in that six month period or the whole 14 documents they were? j 15 session during that six month period? 15 A I believe they were primarily 1 16 A I can recall the major ones, yes. 16 documents that were produced as part of the | 17 Q Who were the major ones? 17 discovery. j 18 A Basically all of the major heavy truck 18 Q So, in other words, are you familiar I 19 manufacturers that were in business at that point in 19 with the fact that Rockwell has approximately 10 to j 20 time, such as Freightliner, White, General Motors, 20 12 boxes of documents that they produced in 21 Ford, Kenworth, Peterbilt and MACK. 21 discovery in these type of cases. 1 22 Did I mention Ford? 22 Did you know that? 23 Q You did. 23 A I have no idea how many boxes were [ 24 How about International? 25 A International, yes, I would see it in J24 produced. I saw some documents that were shown 'to I 25 me. Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 7 (Pages 22 to 25) 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 26 Page 28 ; 1' Ketcham 1 Ketcham = 2 Q Have you had an opportunity to look at 2 A Product compliance manager? ] 3 the Rockwell documents that I just described? 3 Q Yes. | 4 To my understanding there are about 10 4 A From 1988 through or into 1993. \ 5 to 12 or maybe 13 documents that Rockwell has 5 Q How did you come to be involved in the = 6 produced to me in this case for review. 6 warning/caution statement process that Rockwell was ; 7 Have you had a chance, have you ever 7 considering during that time frame? j 8 reviewed documents like that prior to today? 8 A In a couple of ways. One was in the j 9 A I have looked at some documents out of 9 review of the maintenance manuals that Rockwell 1 10 that category, yes. 10 published once they had been written. I typically i 11 Q Do you recall, did you keep any notes 11 reviewed for consistency and accuracy of the manual, ] 12 when you were looking at the documents in 12 as well as a comparison of that manual against other j 13 preparation for today's testimony? 13 manuals. ] 14 A No, I did not. 14 I was aiso involved in, I believe it j 15 Q Do you recall if any of those 15 was in 1996, in the mid-nineties let's call it, in j 16 documents were technical bulletins that were 17 published by Rockwell? 16 the rewrite of the full-page warning and caution 17 that appears in the front of the maintenance 1 \ 18 A Yes, maintenance manuals and that type 18 manuals. 1 19 of item. 19 Q That was approximately in the ' 20 Q At any time while you worked for 20 mid-1990's? : 21 Rockwell did you have any input at all into any 21 A The mid-1990's. j 22 caution or warning statements that were ultimately 22 Q When you were the products compliance j 23 placed? 23 manager during that time frame did you have any 24 A On asbestos-containing products placed 24 input into the language that was ultimately picked i 25 on the products? 25 to appear in the caution/warning statements used by Page 27 Page 29 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham j 2 Q Yes. 2 Rockwell regarding asbestos products? ; 3 A I do not believe so. 3 A What I said as a product compliance ^ 4 Q Is there a distinction in your mind 4 manager? 5 when I say placed on? 5 Q Yes. 1 6 Have you ever been consulted at all 7 whether it was placed on a product regarding 6 A No, only to ensure what was being ; 7 presented in the manual complied and was the latest \ 8 warnings or caution statements Rockwell was 8 warnings and cautions for the company. 9 considering for use regarding its asbestos products? 9 Q Were you the only person doing that or ; 10 A Yes. 10 were there other people in Rockwell that were doing 11 Q What position were you in when you 11 the same kinds of things that you were doing that i 12 were consulted for that? 12 you just described? j 13 A Product manager analysis and perhaps 13 A I was one of the final reviewers, and j 14 as a manager of product compliance. 14 obviously other people had input into the manuals. j 15 Q Products analysis, and what was the 15 Other people drafted the manuals. j 16 other position? 16 Q Do you recall who the final reviewers j 17 A Perhaps the position prior to that. 17 were like yourself during that time frame 1988 to f 18 The manager of product compliance perhaps. 18 1993? 19 Q At the time you were the manager of 19 A Assuming that I reviewed those during j 20 product compliance did Rockwell still utilize in 20 that period of time, I believe that it also would \ 21 some of its products asbestos-containing brake 21 have been passed by legal counsel, inside legal 22 linings? 22 counsel. j 23 A Yes. 23 Q I guess what I am looking for is were 1 24 Q During what time frame were you the 24 there any other employee, other than legal counsel, j 25 products manager? 25 that you were aware of during that time that you j 8 (Pages 26 to 29) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 30 Page 32 ' `1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 were the product compliance manager that did what 2 turbines did you become aware whether or not GE j , 3 you just described which is review manuals to make 3 used asbestos products in conjunction with the GE i '' 4 sure that the language was accurate? 4 turbines? : 5 A Legal counsel was an employee of the 5 A Not that I recall. I 6 firm, but as far as what I was doing, no, I was the 6 Q Is it fair to say that your first i 7 last one to read that. 7 working knowledge of asbestos came when you were | 8 Q When you were reviewing the 8 working with Rockwell? i 9 information within these manuals to make sure, I 9 A It may have been. i 10 assume one of the things you were looking for was to 10 Q You just don't have a recollection at I 11 make sure it accurately reflected Rockwell's belief 11 this point? : 12 at that time regarding the use of asbestos products? 12 A I don't recall if it was with Rockwell 13 MR. CAINONI: Objection as to form. 13 and I don't recall if it was with General Electric. j 14 A It was to ensure that they were 14 I don't recall when my first recollection was. j 15 consistent with the current warnings and cautions 15 Q Do you recall being present during a 16 that were to be published in manuals. 16 meeting at Rockwell where the hazards of asbestos 17 Q What information were you relying upon 17 were actually discussed? 18 when you were judging or checking the language to 18 A Certainly as I put together some of i 19 make sure the information was being accurately 19 the warnings particularly in the mid-90's those 20 portrayed in the manuals or the bullets? 20 types of items were discussed. : 21 In other words, what was it that you 21 Q Prior to your position as products : 22 were using to make sure when you read the warning 22 compliance officer that you had from 1980 to 1993, : 23 that it was accurate? 23 did you have any role at all or any participation in : 24 A My best recollection at this point in 24 reviewing proposed language to be used by Rockwell : 25 time is there was standard language that was 25 regarding the hazards of asbestos? ; Page 31 Page 33 ; - 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 supposed to be used as far as warnings and cautions 2 A I don't believe so. i 3 in the manuals basically dealing with asbestos. 3 Q So based on your recollection today, j 4 Basically I was just checking to make 4 the first position you had where you had any ; 5 certain the writer, in fact, used the proper ones, 5 responsibility for reviewing the accuracy of 1 6 and if the manual was going to be reprinted or 6 warnings/caution as it related to asbestos is when 7 updated that the latest warnings and cautions were 7 you were the project compliance officer beginning in ; 8 included in that manual. 8 1998? 1 9 iQ When did you first became aware that 9 A As the product compliance manager I ; 10 breathing asbestos dust might be hazardous to your 10 may have had the responsibility for reviewing the j 11 health? . 11 language that was included in the maintenance ! 12 -A I really don't know when I first 12 manuals for consistency. 13 became aware of that. 13 Q That position you began in 1988? 14 Q Do you know if you had any opinions 14 A That is the position I began in 1988. 15 about that prior to working for Rockwell? 15 Q Is it your recollection that prior to | 16 A I really don't know. 16 that you never had that kind of responsibility? 17 Q When you were working with GE, did 17 A I did not. ; 18 your job ever require you to become knowledgeable 18 Q Did you recall prior to 1988 while you | 19 regarding the use of asbestos products with respect 19 were working for Rockwell reviewing, did Rockwell 20 to GE products? 20 prior to 1998 to your knowledge require any type of 21 A No. 21 warning label on any product it manufactured and/or 22 Q Did you ever have any work on GE 22 distributed that contained asbestos? ! 23 turbines while you were there? 23 A Yes. j 24 A Yes. 24 Q What is your understanding of what j 25 Q During the time that you worked for GE 25 that label was? ,, .......... 1 1 9 (Pages 30 to 33) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 34 1 Ketcham 1 2 A It is probably better disclosed in 2 3 some of the discovery responses that we provided to 3 4 you as opposed to what I recollect as I sit here 4 5 with no documents in front of me. 5 6 Q Do you recall how the caution labels 6 7 or the warning labels were being used by Rockwell 7 8 prior to 1988? 8 9 A They were used in a variety of 9 10 manners. 10 11 Q Can you describe what they were. 11 12 A Again it is probably better described 12 13 in the discovery responses that we provided to you. 13 14 However, I will mention a few as I can recall them 14 15 off my memory, and I will certainly defer to the 15 16 responses in discovery as far as perhaps being more 16 17 accurate than my memory as I sit here. 17 18 Q Okay. 18 19 A There were certainly warnings and 19 20 cautions that appeared in product maintenance 20 21 manuals back into the mid-70's. In the later 21 22 seventies I believe there were labels that were 22 23 attached to boxes of asbestos-containing service 23 24 parts. 24 25 There were also developed some 25 Page 35 1 Ketcham 1 2 technical service aids that provided warnings and 2 3 instructions that were included as package inserts 3 4 in some of the after market asbestos containing 4 5 products that were described. 5 6 In the mid-80's there was the 6 7 development of safety data sheets for dissemination 7 8 to customers that requested them, and there was also 8 9 a labeling program for lined shoes, and labels were 9 10 placed on the shoes as well as labels that appeared 10 11 on pallets of brake assemblies. 11 12 Then there were also the full page 12 13 warnings and cautions that were included in the 13 14 maintenance manuals besides just the small 14 15 individual warnings and cautions. 15 16 Again that is what I can recall as I 16 17 sit across from you today. As I said, there is 17 18 probably more precise information in the discovery 18 19 documents. 19 20 MR. QUICK: Off the record. 20 21 (Discussion off the record.) 21 22 MR. STANZILA: We did not have any 22 23 notice of this deposition until this morning 23 24 and we would like to reserve our right to 24 25 redepose the witness because we haven't 25 10 (Pages 34 to 37) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 Page 36 : Ketcham i prepared for this deposition and we don't ! have counsel present who are prepared to i take this deposition. : MS. MANISCULCO: Let me join in that. We were unaware of this deposition until two 1 minutes ago. ! Who is the witness? i MR. BARTELS: Bruce Ketcham. MR. SANDERS: I just got cut off for a 1 second and I join in the objection. MR. McGUIRE: I also join in the i objection. , i (Discussion off the record.) j MR. BARTELS: Mr. Ketcham, you ] graduated from Union College in 1972? THE WITNESS: I had two degrees, and can I correct that? MR. BARTELS: Yes. THE WITNESS: My undergraduate degrees j are in electrical engineering and industrial ! economics. ! MR. BARTELS: His first job after : college was working with General Electric i from about 1972 until 1978. He had no ; Page 37 : Ketcham contact with automotive products during the : ; time he worked for GE. He then began working for Rockwell from 1978 until 1997. He then worked for 1 j Meritor Automotive, which was a spinoff from j Rockwell at that time, and he worked there j until 2000. MR. BARTELS; Then in 2000 he began working for his present company Exponent as a consultant, and he has consulted in \ various capacities both for litigation and j otherwise. j He is appearing today as a consultant j for Arvin Meritor, and we went through some 1 of his background with Rockwell, and I'll j have him do that briefly one more time j because I am sure I will mess up and he will have to jump in. ] He began talking about some of his j knowledge regarding some of the warnings and j that is where we stopped. We started at j about 10:05 and stopped at about 10:40 to ] get everybody in on the call. j Q Just with respect to Rockwell, again j --- - . .. . __________1 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 3B Page 40 ` 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 for the benefit of counsel who have just joined us, 2 Rockwell? ; 3 can you walk us through each position you had with 3 A I don't believe so. | 4 Rockwell and the approximate time frames that you 4 Q Did there come a time while you were j 5 held each position? 5 working for Rockwell where you became familiar with ; 6 A Certainly. I started with Rockwell in 6 who supplied the brake linings that were used in j 7 1978. My first job was as a station auto manager at 7 Rockwell brake assembles at any time while you were 8 the Florence, Kentucky facility which was an 8 working for Rockwell? j 9 after-market distribution center. I held that job 9 A Yes, I know some of them but I don't | 10 for approximately six months. I then became the 10 necessarily know all of them. ! 11 purchasing manager at that facility. I held that 11 Q What position did you hold when you 12 job for approximately three or four years. 12 first became familiar with the suppliers of the 1 13 I then became the product control 13 brake linings used by Rockwell? ; 14 manager at that facility and I had that job for 14 A Probably as the purchasing manager. ] 15 approximately two or three years. 15 Q That was while you were at Florence, I 16 I left that location in 1984 and I 16 Kentucky? { 17 transferred to Rockwell's automotive vehicle 18 headquarters in Troy, Michigan, and my first 17 A That's correct. I 18 Q That would be approximately the time j 19 position there was as a division materials manager 19 frame 1978 through 1984? j 20 for the on-highway axle division and I held that 21 position to 1988. 20 A No, I was the purchasing manager from 21 late 73 to either 1981 or 1982. j 22 From 1988 I changed positions and 22 Q How did you become aware of who the ] 23 became the manager of product compliance. I held 23 suppliers of the brake linings were to Rockwell? j 24 that position until 1993 when I became the manager 24 A From the receipt into the Florence, a 25 of product analysis which I held up until the end of 25 Kentucky facility of those products I cannot recall 1 Page 39 Page 41 j . 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 1 2 September of 1997, which is the date when Rockwell 2 offhand if the buyers who worked for me were, in j 3 International spun off the automotive business which 3 fact, buying them from some of the linings j 4 became Meritor Automotive on October 1st, 1995. 4 manufacturers or if those parts came In through i 5 I remained in the position as the 5 inter-plant sources. 6 manager of product analysis up until the time that I 6 Q What does that mean, Inter-plant : 7 departed Meritor Automotive in 2000. 7 sources? 8 Q Thank you, sir. 8 A For Instance, the brake manufacturing 9 I'm going to go back to your first 9 plant would ship a product to Florence for use in i 10 position at Rockwell as a sales order manager. 10 after-market sales, and I can't recall as I sit here 11 Can you describe just generally again 11 whether they may have shipped lining to us from the 12 what the after-market distribution was at that 12 brake plant for redistribution in the after market. i 13 facility? Describe what you mean by after-market 13 Q When you were acting as the purchasing : 14 distribution. 14 manager did Rockwell manufacture brake linings? 15 A Out of Florence, Kentucky, the 15 A When I was sales order manager or 16 facility distributed after-market parts for the 16 purchasing manager? 17 medium and heavy truck business, as well as the 17 Q Yes. ; 18 off-highway equipment business to the various OEMs 18 A Rockwell did not manufacture brake 19 and Rockwell authorized distributors. 19 linings. 20 Q With respect to truck brake . 20 Q So you would agree any brake linings 21 assemblies, which would include in that definition 21 used in a Rockwell brake assembly was purchased from J 22 the brake linings, are you familiar with during the 22 another source? j 23 time that you were the sales order manager at 23 A During the period of time that we 1 24 Florence, Kentucky the suppliers of the brake lines 25 used in the after-market brake assemblies sold by 24 specifically discussed, yes, so from 1978 up until 25 1981 or 1982 Rockwell did not manufacture brake | \ 3 11 (Pages 38 to 41) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 42 Page 44 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 linings. 2 Pennsylvania. Kenton, Ohio and Marysville, Ohio. 3 Q During that time frame do you know 3 Those are the ones that I recall off 4 whether or not the brake linings that were purchased 4 the top of my head. There may have been other ones. 5 by Rockwell for use in its brake assemblies for 5 Iam sorry, Winchester, Kentucky. 6 medium and heavy trucks contained asbestos? 6 Q Can you describe generally what the : 7 A Some of them did, yes. 7 business of Rockwell was when you started working 8 Q When you say some of them, do you know 8 for them in 1978? ; 9 what percent? 9 A Rockwell International or the 1 10 A No, I don't know what percentage. 10 automotive business of Rockwell International? : 11 Q Do you recall the sources from which 11 Q I want to focus on the truck industry 12 Rockwell obtained its brake linings? 12 and the truck business. 13 A At what period of time? 13 What was the business of Rockwell as ; 14 Q During the period of time that you 14 it related to the heavy truck industry? j 15 were the sales order manager and a purchasing 15 A Okay. Rockwell manufactured axles, 16 manager. 16 front axles, rear driver axles and trailer axles, ' 17 A The names that I can recall, and I am 17 and Rockwell manufactured foundation brake ; 18 sure there are other ones that I cannot recall, as I 18 components in assemblies that were used in front 19 recall sitting here today, were Carlisle, Abex and I 19 axles, rear driver axles and trailer axles, : 20 believe also Bendix, and I am sure as I said there 20 Rockwell manufactured driver brake | 21 were others also. 21 line components and Rockwell manufactured plastic 22 Q Of the three you can recall, Carlisle 22 components, such as hoods, et cetera. Those are the 23 Abex and Bendix, can you recall if Rockwell 23 primary ones that I can recall. i 24 purchased more from one than the other during the 24 Q During this first period that you were 25 time frame from 1978 to 1981 or 1982? 25 working for Rockwell, between 1978 and 1981 or 1992, Page 43 Page 45 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 A I don't recall the percentage of a 2 who were Rockwell's competitors in the axle business ; 3 particular vendor we might have had. 3 with respect to heavy duty trucks? 4 Q Did you have any specific 4 A I recall Eaton and Dana. There may : 5 responsibilities as either a sales order manager or 5 have been other minor players. 6 the purchasing manager with respect to the sale of 6 Q How about the foundation brake ; 7 brake assemblies which would use brake linings? 7 business, who were Rockwell's competitors In the i 8 A Well, as I said, as a sales manager my 8 truck foundation brake business? 9 people were responsible for taking orders from OEM's 9 A Eaton, Dana, and I believe that Mack j 10 and distributors and entering their orders into the 10 may have made some of their own brake assemblies for 11 shipment of products to the OEM's or distributors. 11 their own product. There may have been other ones, 1 12 Q Between 1978 and 1982, which is about 12 as well. | 13 the time you were the sales order manager and the 13 Q As I understand it, and correct me if I 14 purchasing manager of Florence, did Rockwell have a 14 I am wrong, with respect to for Instance the i 15 manufacturing facility where axles were 15 manufacture of truck axles, whether they are rear or | 16 manufactured? 16 front, It's my understanding that a company such as j 17 A They had multiple manufacturing 17 International would actually enter into a contract j 18 facilities where axles were manufactured. 18 with Rockwell to produce axles for specific types of i 19 Q Do you recall the locations during 19 trucks; is that correct? -j 20 that time frame? 20 A There may be contracts and/or j 21 A I recall some of the locations. 21 agreements to supply axles. I don't know if they f 22 Q What were some of the locations that 22 were written specifically for specific trucks. { 23 you recall? 23 Q Describe what you mean by that. j 24 A The ones that I can recall were 24 A Well, I am thinking that there may j 25 Newark, Ohio. Osh Kosh, Wisconsin. New Castle, 25 have been an agreement that either talked about axle j 12 (Pages 42 to 45) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Wood bridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Wood bridge, NJ 07095 Page 46 Page 48 j '1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham i 2 models or groups of axles or some other manner of 2 MR. CANONI: Objection as to the form. j 3 describing that product. I don't think that it 3 Q Do you understand the question? j 4 described that we are selling you this axle for this 4 A I think it's a little more complex i 5 truck or this truck model. 5 than what you were describing. j 6 Q But your understanding was they would 6 Q In other words, if I'm International j 7 purchase axles manufactured by Rockwell for use In 7 truck and I have a Rockwell axle on there and I need 8 their trucks? 8 to replace a brake assembly or the axle, I could | 9 A Yes, if they so desired, that's 9 call Rockwell and that's where you would come In as j 10 correct. 10 the after-market salesman and you could sell 11 Q It's also my understanding with 11 directly the pieces that were needed to replace the j 12 respect to the brake assemblies Rockwell would work 12 part on the truck? 13 with the truck company to make sure that the needs 13 A Rockwell, as far as dealing with OEM's ] 14 of the truck company were met with respect to brake 14 was to ship and sell to OEM replacement parts. So j 15 performance? 15 if they needed a replacement brake assembly or if j 16 A The responsibilities that Rockwell had 16 they needed a replacement camshaft or a replacement 17 was a shared responsibility between Rockwell or any 17 spring, whatever component or assembly that they 18 component manufacturer and the truck OEM's who had 18 needed for a truck that had Rockwell components on, 19 the ultimate responsibility for certifying the 19 it could be sold to an OEM. 20 vehicle. 20 Q Describe just for the record your 21 Q In other words, what you are saying is 21 definition of an OEM. 22 the truck company would say I need to have certain 22 A It's an original equipment | 23 performance levels met on my trucks and my braking 23 manufacturer. They are the manufacturers of things 24 performance, and Rockwell would work with the truck 24 that we are talking about here, the medium and heavy : 25 company as well as the brake lining supplier to make 25 trucks. j Page 47 Page 49 : 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 sure those requirements were met? 2 Q Do you know if at any time while you 3 A That is correct, in general terms. 3 worked for Rockwell did Rockwell enter into : 4 Q Now, during the time that you were 4 contracts with OEMs for the supply of truck axles i 5 there between 1978 and 1981 or 1982 did Rockwell 5 and brake assemblies? 6 have any OEM agreements with any particular 6 A I believe they did. 7 companies to supply truck axles? 7 Q Was there a particular section or 8 A We may have. 8 division within the company that was responsible for 9 Q Do you know for a fact whether or not 9 negotiating those deals? ' 10 they did? 10 A To the best of my knowledge, that 11 A I don't know as I sit here today. 11 would have been the sales department ; 12 Q Did anything that you did while you 12 Q At any time while you worked for 13 were In Florence between 1978 and 1981 or 1982 have 13 Rockwell, did you have any responsibilities for : 14 anything to do with the contracts with trucking 14 negotiating any of these OEM contracts involving the i 15 companies for purchase of axles and brake assemblies 15 purchase of the axles or the sale of axles and brake ; 16 specifically? 16 assemblies to any particular OEM? i 17 Do you understand the question? 17 A No. j 18 A Only in the general sense that we had 18 Q During the time that you were there, 19 purchase orders from OEM's and shipped product 19 do you know who was in charge of that sales division 20 against purchase orders. 20 that would enter into those deals? i 21 Q The average markets, as I understand 21 A You are going back so many years now. 22 it, would be a situation where a company already has 22 I don't think that I can answer that. 23 purchased or already has a truck with a Rockwell 23 Q I will come back to that. 24 axle and needs to order replacement parts for that 24 If I showed you an organizational j 25 particular truck; is that accurate? 25 chart from 1985, might that refresh your Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 13 (Pages 46 to 49) 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 50 Page 52 ; 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham I 2 recollection? 2 processing those orders into the system. ; 3 A It may. 3 Q Do you recall the names of any of 1 4 Q So again just so I understand the 4 those dealers or distributers? ! 5 process, Rockwell would sell axles and brake 5 A No, not as I sit here. 6 assemblies which were attached to the axles to 6 Q Sir, in 1985 what was your position 7 OEM's, correct? 7 with Rockwell? 8 A Sometimes. 8 A I was the division sales manager for j 9 Q What else? When you say sometimes, 9 the on-highway axle division. I 10 when would they not do that? 10 Q Was that located in Troy, Michigan? | 11 A Sometimes they would sell axle 11 A Out of Troy, Michigan. 1 12 assemblies and brake assemblies that were not 12 Q Just for the record, how do you spell 13 attached to axles. Sometimes they would sell axles 13 your last name? ; 14 assemblies without brake assemblies, et cetera. 14 A K-e-t-c-h-a-m. 15 Q The after-market division was 15 (Ketcham Exhibit 1, flow charts, I 16 responsible for supplying the OEM's with replacement 16 marked for identification, as of this date.) i 17 parts? 17 MR. BARTELS: For the record. I'll 18 A That was part of its function, that's 18 describe it. It's a document that I will 19 correct. 19 tell you I got from reviewing documents that : 20 Q What else was their function? 20 were made available by Rockwell. : 21 A They also supplied Rockwell authorized 21 It is an eight page document and it ; 22 distributors with certain Rockwell components. 22 purports to be flow charts in various plants ; 23 Q Did Rockwell between 1978 and 1981 23 and you might be able to tell me better. \ 24 have any nationally authorized distributors that it 24 I'm going to show this to you and I'm going ! 25 would sell its products to? 25 to ask you questions. Page 51 1 Ketcham 1 2 A What dates? 2 3 Q 1978 to 1981 or 1982? 3 4 A Rockwell authorized distributors that 4 5 they sold product to, correct. 5 6 Q Do you recall generally the names and 6 7 any national distribution chains that you sold to or 7 8 were they regional or can you describe how that 8 9 worked? 9 10 A To the best of my recollection they 10 11 were local concerns and ranged anywhere from one 11 12 shop to multiple shops to a local shop or to a state 12 13 or several states. 13 14 Q Do you recall having any customers 14 15 that were considered authorized local dealers during 15 16 the time that you were there? 16 17 A Do I recall them? 17 18 Q Yes. 18 19 A No. 19 20 Q Did you have any specific 20 21 responsibility for any such distributors, regional 21 22 or local distributors? 22 23 A My people when I was in this job, the 23 24 people that worked for me were responsible for 24 25 taking orders from those distributors and for 25 14 (Pages 50 to 53) Page 53 ] Ketcham ' MR. QUICK: Are there Bate stamps? i MR. BARTELS: No, they are not yet 1 Bate stamped. j Q Have you had a chance to look at the exhibit? j 1 A I glanced at it, yes. Q Have you seen it before today? \ i A No. i Q Can you describe generally what we are l looking at in Exhibit 1? j A It's an organizational chart for the Winchester, Kentucky plant. j j Q Only the Winchester plant? 1 A That's correct. Q You said there were other plants, as well? A That is correct. Q I guess my question is did each plant j have its own sales division regarding the monitoring ] of the sales of its products? 1 MR. CANONI; Don't look at the document unless you need to. | j A I do not believe so. Q Do you know what a sales order j 1 j Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 54 Page 56 ; 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham ; 2 expeditor is? 2 your responsibilities were. i 3 A Somebody that would expedite material 3 A My responsibilities were to supervise l !4 for shipment to the customer. 4 the buyers and expeditors who were procuring I 5 Q Do you know what the role of the 5 complete components for redistribution out of the ; 6 purchasing supervisor was in a plant, in a 6 Florence, Kentucky distribution center, as well as | 7 particular plant? 7 the purchase of nonproductive suppliers such as ! 8 A In general? 8 packaging and labels as well as for contracts for ; 9 Q In general. 9 the construction and maintenance sold in general. 10 A In general responsible for purchasing 10 Q At any time while you were the i 11 of the materials. 11 purchasing manager, did you ever recall seeing on 12 Q Within Rockwell do you know if the 12 any product leaving the plant with either a caution 13 specific individual plants had the authority to make 13 label or a warning regarding asbestos? 14 sales directly on the OEM's? - 14 A Yes. i 15 A Material was shipped from that plant 15 Q Can you describe on what product you j 16 to the OEM plant, that is correct. 16 recall seeing such labels? ; 17 Q To your knowledge, were there 17 A As I was at Florence I recall seeing 18 individuals at each individual plant that would 18 it on boxes of asbestos-containing products that ; 19 negotiate directly with an OEM for the purchase of 19 were being shipped from the Florence distribution 20 materials? 20 center. j 21 A Negotiate? 21 Q Other than boxes, do you recall seeing j 22 Q Yes. 22 it on any other labels leaving the plant? j 23 A Typically not. 23 A I believe they also may have been on ; 24 Q Where within Rockwell, if you know, or 24 the outside of pallets and any shrink made pallets ; 25 who within Rockwell during the time that you were 25 that were shipped from the facility. ; Page 55 Page 57 ; .1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham i 2 there was responsible for negotiating directly with 2 Q At Rockwell while you were the 1 3 the OEM's for the purchase of materials such as 3 purchasing manager did it ever place its own warning ; 4 axles and brake assemblies? 4 label or caution label on any product that is 5 A That was in response to the prior 5 shipped out from the plant? i 6 question that you asked that I could not recall the 6 MR. CANONI: You mean the product j 7 names of the individuals. 7 itself? ; 8 Q Do you recall the names of any of 8 Q The product itself. ^ 9 them? .9 In other words, did Rockwell at the 10 A lam drawing a blank right now. 10 Florence facility before an item was shipped out : 11 Q Those individuals that were 11 ever itself place on the product any caution or 12 responsible for negotiating on behalf of Rockwell, i 12 warning label? ; 13 do you know where their offices were located? 13 A I have described where it was on boxes ! 14 A Those people as best I know would be 14 and pallets. 15 located in the Troy offices. 15 Q That's right. 16 Q Do you know what that title was for 16 A Are you differentiating or can you 1 17 that department? 17 clarify that? 18 A It would change over time and that's 18 Q Let me ask you this. i 19 part of the issue that I'm trying to understand who 19 The labels, the caution/warning ] 20 might have been where and when at a particular point 20 statements that you saw on the boxes, who put those j 21 in time. It would have been within the sales 21 on the boxes? j 22 function, the centralized sales function or the 22 A The packaging personnel of Florence. j 23 divisional sales function in Troy. 23 Q Do you know if when those boxes or ] 24 Q As the purchasing manager while you 24 packages came in whether or not they already had \ 25 were in Florence, Kentucky, describe generally what 25 such warning statements or caution statements? j i 15 (Pages 54 to 57) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 58 1 Ketcham 1 2 A On the boxes they were receiving from 2 3 the supplier? 3 4 Q Yes. 4 5 A I don't recall. 5 6 Q It's your recollection that while you 6 7 were the purchasing manager at the Florence facility 7 8 Rockwell employees would take boxes of in this case 8 9 asbestos-containing brake linings and place on the 9 10 outside of the box a warning or a caution statement? 10 11 A That was done as part of the packaging 11 12 process at Florence, that is correct. 12 13 Q During the time frame 1978 through 13 14 1982? 14 15 A During some portion of the time frame. 15 16 I don't know that it was a full time frame. 16 17 Q Do you know what these caution or 17 18 warning labels were made of? Were they labels that 18 19 you stuck on or were they stamped on or do you 19 20 recall? 20 21 A Yes. 21 22 Q What were they? 22 23 A They were labels that were adhesive 23 24 labels that were affixed to the boxes. 24 25 Q Where did Rockwell obtain these 25 Page 59 1 Ketcham 1 2 labels, If you know? 2 3 A From their labels' supplier. 3 4 Q Do you know who the label supplier was 4 5 at that time? 5 6 A Not as I sit here. 6 7 Q Do you recall the language of these 7 8 label that was being used during the time frame 1978 8 9 to 1982 by Rockwell employees at the Rockwell plant? 9 10 A What were the dates you mentioned? I 10 11 am sorry. 11 12 Q I'm specifically talking about the 12 13 time that you worked as a sales order manager and 13 14 then the purchasing manager between 1978 and 1981 or 14 15 1982 I guess. 15 16 A During a portion of that time when 16 17 labels were applied I don't recall the specific 17 18 language that was on them. It may be disclosed in 18 19 some of the discovery responses that we provided to 19 20 you. 20 21 Q I'm asking you do you specifically 21 22 have a memory in those two positions of seeing 22 23 labels being placed by Rockwell employees on for 23 24 instance boxes of brake shoes that had asbestos 24 25 iining attached to them? 25 16 (Pages 58 to 61) Page 60 ; Ketcham i A During a portion of that period of time, yes. j Q Do you have a recollection of when Rockwell started doing that, placing labels on boxes i of products supplied by other companies? | MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. j Q Do you understand the question? 1 A No. Could you either repeat it or i clarify it? I Q Do you know when Rockwell first j started placing those types of labels on the \ products of other companies? ; A We placed those labels on boxes where : we packaged the asbestos-containing components and i that time period would have been sometime during j that period of time. I don't recall specifically. ; Q With respect to your last statement, did Rockwell ship these asbestos-containing products in the boxes that they originally came in? j For instance, I am going to use an : example. They have a brake assembly with asbestos ] lining purchased from Abex and Abex sends it to the ; plant. Does Rockwell as it comes in simply send it j off with a label on it or do they do their own ] . . . ... j i Page 61 j Ketcham ! packaging?. i Do you understand the question? \ A I understand your question but I don't ] think your description is correct as I understood j your question. j Q What is wrong with the question? \ A I think you said Rockwell received j brake assemblies from Abex. Rockwell did not receive break assemblies from Abex. 1 ] Q What did they receive from Abex? A The products that they would have 1 \ received from Abex would have been brake linings. 1 Q Let me ask you this. You don't deal j with any manufacturing facility? j A lam getting confused here. Typically 1 we do not do manufacturing. Typically it was a j distribution center that was in manufacturing or 1 remanufacturing later on. j Q How did the after-market brake j assemblies at the Florence facility move? I A The brake assemblies? j Q Yes. | A By truck. 1 Q How were they packaged? j I Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 62 Page 64 j 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham | 2 A The assemblies? 2 Q Now -- \ 3 Q Yes. 3 A And obviously after I departed. = ; 4 A Assemblies for ones that were required 4 Q At the distribution center in j 5 were typically in most cases shrink-wrapped. 5 Florence, did you ever receive brake linings? i 6 Q The brake assemblies, I assume the 6 A Yes. ! 7 brake assemblies had as a component part an asbestos 7 Q When the brake linings were received j 8 brake lining when it came to your distribution 8 at the facility, how did they come packaged? j 9 center. 9 A I believe that they came in cardboard j 10 Was there any label on it at that 10 boxes. j 11 point regarding asbestos? 11 Q Could you tell from looking at the j 12 A At what point in time? 12 cardboard boxes from what source the brake linings j 13 Q When it arrives at your Florence 13 came from? \ 14 facility. 14 A I may have been able to. I don't i 15 MR. BARTELS: What years? 15 recall as I sit here. ? 16 Q During the time you were sales order 16 Q Do you recall the names of any of the i 17 manufacturer and purchasing manager at Florence, 17 brake linings manufacturers that you recall? | 18 Kentucky. 18 A Well, as I stated earlier I recalled \ 19 A I don't believe so. 19 Abex, Carlisle and Bendix, and like I said I am sure | 20 Q Once it gets there and now an order is 20 there were others. 1 21 placed and you are shrinking it, does a Rockwell 21 Q The packages which Rockwell received 1 22 employee add to it a label regarding asbestos during 22 these brake linings in during the time that you were 23 that time frame? 23 there, did the packaging have any statements 24 A During a portion of that time frame 24 regarding asbestos on those boxes? 25 the material would have been boxed and placed into a 25 A It may have. I don't recall. j Page 63 Page 65 j 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham \ 2 box with a label on the box, and that label would 2 Q What would you then do once you j 3 contain an asbestos warning for the assembly. 3 received the brake linings at the Florence facility i 4 Q The box itself would say what, if 4 during that time that you were there, if you know? j 5 anything? 5 A We would repackage them in multiple j 6 A The box would say Rockwell and it 6 different ways. ] 7 would have a Rockwell logo on the side and it would 7 Q Can you describe how you would ] 8 have a label, and on that label would be the 8 generally repackage them? j 9 Rockwell part number and the quantity of that 9 A They could be repackaged into kits j 10 component contained within that box, and for 10 which would be just the number of linings required j 11 asbestos-containing components on the lower portion 11 to line the brakes on the axle. It could be lining j 12 of that label would have been the warning or caution 12 kits together with rivets that would attach linings j 13 on it. 13 to a shoe. 1 14 Q Your testimony is that label is 14 It could be linings with rivets with | 15 already on the box or is it placed on the box like a 15 springs and with rollers as an overhaul kit. It j 16 sticky? 16 could be aligned shoes. It could be lined shoes \ 17 A It's an adhesive label that is placed 18 on the box by the employees or by mechanized 17 with some of those components that I just described j 18 such as springs and rollers and such as a major j 19 equipment that we had. 19 overhaul kit. \ 20 Q How long did that process continue at 21 Florence during the time that you were there? 20 There may be other ones that I don't 21 recall offhand but those are typically sold in 1 ] 22 A For asbestos-containing product it 22 multiple different types of configurations. 23 continued up until the time of my departure. 23 Q Those items would have been boxed at J 24 Q When was that again? 24 the Florence facility? ] 25 A I left in 1984. 25 A That is correct. --------------S----S--------- ----------- ------------_ | il 17 (Pages 62 to 65) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 66 Page 6B 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q Describe generally the boxes that you 2 sit here. It was not something that was really 3 are now putting these linings in whatever form you 3 apparent to me. 4 just described. 4 Q Do you recall at any time while you 5 What did those boxes look like? 5 were at Florence whether or not Rockwell conducted 6 A The boxes are sized to the particular 6 asbestos studies to determine whether or not OSHA 7 kit and they are white outside typically. They have 7 regulations were being complied with in the handling 8 the Rockwell logo and Rockwell name on the side of 8 of the asbestos materials? 9 the box that is in blue. 9 A They may have. It was something that : 10 Then there were the adhesive labels 10 was done in our plants. I don't recall if it was : 11 that were affixed to the box, as I described 11 done during my tenure at Florence, though, I was not 12 earlier, that had the part number and quantity or 12 specifically involved in that. 13 the kit number that was inside the box together with 13 Q Do you know if, in fact, the Florence 14 the warning, and at some point in time we were also 14 facility had a program In effect during the time 15 inserting technical service aids that further 15 that you were there that dealt with safety concerns 16 described some of the warnings and cautions for 16 and the handling of asbestos by its employees? 17 asbestos-containing product. 17 A They may have but I don't know. ; 18 Q Do you recall if there was any 18 Q Do you recall seeing any signs posted 19 particular place on these boxes that these adhesive 19 in any of the places within the facility where 20 warnings were supposed to be placed? 20 asbestos was being handled regarding the possible ! 21 A The warning was part of the part 21 hazards of breathing asbestos dust? 22 number label so it would go on what was considered 22 A They may have but I don't recall. i 23 the front of the box. 23 Q Did they have a plant safety manager | 24 Q In other words, this warning included 24 at the time that you were there? : 25 not just a warning regarding the contents of the 25 A Not titled as such, no. i Page 67 Page 69 ' 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham i 2 product but also part numbers and other information; 2 Q During the time that you were at 3 is that correct? 3 Florence, at any time and not limiting it to the 1 \ 4 A That's correct. 4 sales or the purchasing manufacturer, did you ever ; 5 Q In other words, you didn't have a 5 become aware that breathing asbestos dust may be ; 6 separate warning that was put on these boxes at the 6 hazardous to your health? ; 7 Florence plant which contained other information as 7 A Yes. In general, yes. : 8 well? 8 Q Do you know what kinds of diseases 9 A The label was a single piece label 9 were associated with asbestos at that time? ; 10 that contained other information together with the 10 A I don't recall from 20 years ago what j 11 warning. 11 my recollection was. 1 12 Q Did you ever have any input into the 12 Q Do you know if at that time you were i 13 language of the warnings that were on these adhesive 13 aware that asbestos was considered a cancer hazard? 14 labels that were being used at the Florence plant 14 A I really can't recall. 15 during the time that you were the sales order 15 MR. BARTELS: I am going to take a . 16 manager and the purchasing manager? 16 five minute breather here. 17 A The language of the label? 17 (Recess taken.) 18 Q Yes, 18 (Ketcham Exhibit 2, memo, marked for 19 A No. 19 identification, as of this date.) 20 Q Did the plant at Florence, not the 20 Q Mr. Ketcham, I am going to show you j 21 plant but the facility at Florence have any 21 what I marked as Exhibit 2 for identification and 1 22 precautions in place for the handling of asbestos 22 ask you to look at it and then I'll describe it for \ 23 materials that were coming into the plant and being 23 the record once you have had a chance to look at it. \ 24 shipped out of the plant to your knowledge? 24 MR. SANDER: First I want to place an j 25 A They may have but I don't recall as I 25 objection on the record. 1 18 (Pages 66 to 69) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 70 Page 72 ' 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham ; 2- Other counsel were objecting earlier, 2 Q Have you had a chance to look at the : 3 and I had dropped off the call as I 3 document? I :4 explained, and I wanted to object to the 4 A I have glanced at it. j 5 timeliness of the notice. 5 Q It's titled "Rockwell International ! 6 I understand sometimes technical 6 dated September 8, 1987" and the subject is the ; 7 things go awry that we think were sent. In 7 asbestos labeling program, and it consists of three 8 an asbestos litigation we tend to get 8 pages. The final two pages are copies of various 9 noticed late, but the witness is being shown 9 warnings. : 10 documents that none of us can see, and I 10 Are you familiar with Ms. Barbara : 11 understand that counsel may want to 11 Boroughf, the author of this particular memo? : 12 represent they do not implicate the 12 A Yes, I am. j 13 defendants and therefore we shouldn't worry 13 Q Who was Mr. Boroughf? ; 14 about them or whatever, but I think with 14 A She was a regional safety manager. 15 respect to documents, as I indicated before 15 Q Where was her office located? 1 16 we got on the record, we should be given an 16 A In Troy, Michigan. 17 opportunity to look at them. 17 Q Did you work with her when you moved j 18 I don't know how extensive they are or 18 to Troy, work in the same facility? ; 19 what they concern, but in order to 19 A We were in the same facility, yes. 20 accommodate everyone's interest here I think 20 Q Are you familiar with the form of this 21 we ought to investigate that possibility. 21 particular document? 22 MR. CANONI: Obviously it can be done. 22 In other words, it's entitled 23 MR. BARTELS: I don't have any 23 International, and are you familiar with such 24 objection. It is going to fall on your 24 documents while you were at Rockwell? 25 shoulders. 25 A Yes, ids an internal Rockwell \ Page 71 Page 73 ; 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 What we can do, I am guessing we are 2 International letterhead. 3 going to take a brief intermission for lunch 3 Q It appears to be a document that you I 4 and maybe we can put them out for everybody 4 saw when you were working at Rockwell? 5 then so we will you have them available. 5 A The form of the letter, yes. { 6 There are not going to be too many. 6 Q Does it appear to be genuine? j 7 Q Sir, have you had a chance to look at 7 A Yes. : 8 Exhibit 2? 8 Q Do you recognize any of the 9 A Yes, I have. . 9 individuals who were copied on this document? : 10 MR. BARTELS: For the record, lam 10 A Yes, I do. i 11 going to describe it. 11 Q Which names are you familiar with? i 12 MR. SANDER: We are going to ask if the 12 A lam familiar with the names perhaps 13 witness is going to be asked questions about 13 but I would not recognize them if I saw them today, i 14 the documents that we have a chance to see 14 the people that are noted on the distributions list, 15 them. 15 as well as the two people that are under the j 16 MR. BARTELS: Your objection is noted. 16 component plant. : 17 MR. SANDER: I am going to pick up my 17 Q Do you recall seeing this particular 18 cellphone and call Agatha. 18 memo while you were working at Rockwell? 19 MR. BARTELS: You have the right to do 19 A I don't know. I don't recall that I 20 that. 20 did. 21 MR. SANDER: I think this deposition 21 Q Earlier you testified that while you 22 ought to be adjourned until we resolve this. 22 were working at Florence between the time frame 1978 23 MR. BARTELS: I'm going to continue 23 and 1984, you recall labels, warning labels being 24 with this and if you get Agatha on the phone 24 placed on products that were leaving the Florence .25 we will stop and deal with it at that point. 25 facility; is that correct? J ; 19 (Pages 70 to 73) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 i Page 74 Page 76 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 A Right, being placed on the boxes. 2 A I understand the question. They may 3 Q You would agree with me that this 3 have, I'm uncertain. 4 particular document seems to be discussing the 4 Q Do you know if such a program took 5 asbestos labeling program that took place in the 5 place during the time frame 1978 to 1982? 6 latter part of 1986? 6 A I do not know as I sit here. 7 A That is what the first sentence says. 7 Q Do you recall ever seeing any 8 Q In other words it says, and I will 8 documents at any time from Rockwell documenting a 9 read it into the record "During the latter part of 9 testing program prior to 1982, a program testing of 10 1986, an asbestos label program was implemented for 10 a proposed warning label? 11 Automotive Operations." 11 MR. CANONI: You mean affixing them? 12 Did I read that correctly? 12 MR. BARTELS: Yes. 13 A Yes. 13 A Affixing them? Not that I recall. 14 Q Is it fair to say that based on the 14 (Ketcham Exhibit 3, International 15 language of that letter that this was the first such 15 engineering report, marked for 16 labeling program in effect in the automotive 16 identification, as of this date.) 17 division? 17 Q I'm going to show you what has been 18 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 18 marked as Exhibit 3, which is a Rockwell 19 Q Do you understand the question? 19 International engineering report dated 10/10/86, and 20 A Yes, I do. 20 ask you to look at that. 21 Q Do you agree with that? 21 MR. BARTELS: Just for the record, 22 A No. 22 this is a four page document. It's entitled 23 Q Why not? 23 "Asbestos Label Warning Testing" and it 24 A Because I know for a feet that there 24 describes a test set up for the testing of a 25 were asbestos labels being put on boxes at Florence 25 particular type of label and its strength. Page 75 1 Ketcham 2 prior to this date. 3 Q So this does not refresh your memory 4 as to when the asbestos labeling program went into 5 effect at Rockwell? 6 A It is talking about the program that 7 was instituted in 1986. It does not state that 8 there was no program prior to that point in time. 9 Q Do you recall ever seeing any 10 documentation in your review of the depositions 11 regarding asbestos litigation that actually 12 discussed an asbestos labeling program that was in 13 effect during the time frame 1978 to 1982? 14 MR. CANONI: I object to the form of 15 the question. 16 A As I sit here today I don't recall. I 17 may have. 18 Q Do you know if, in fact, prior to the 19 asbestos labels being placed on any of these 20 products whether or not Rockwell instituted a 21 testing program to determine whether the labels 22 would stay on the surfaces that they were being 23 . affixed to? 24 MR. CANONI: At any point in time? 25 MR. BARTELS: Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 77 Ketcham Q Have you ever seen this document before, Exhibit 3? A I may have, I really don't recall. Q Does this refresh your recollection at all regarding whether or not Rockwell ever instituted an asbestos warning testing program? MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. A They ran a test on asbestos labels. That is what that document is telling me. Q Do you know if prior to these tests whether or not Rockwell ever did similar tests? This is 1986. Are you familiar with whether or not they ran a similar test regarding asbestos labeling warnings prior to 1986? A I don't know as I sit here. Q Do you recall ever seeing any document prior to 1986 that described this type of testing for an asbestos label? A Not that I recall. MR. BARTELS: I have another document and this will be Exhibit 4. (Ketcham Exhibit 4, memo re asbestos labels, marked for identification, as of Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 78 Page 80 ] 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham ! 2 this date.) 2 A Safety manager. j .3 Q Sir, I am going to show you what has 3 Q The safety manager? 1 4 been marked as Exhibit 4 and it is dated 4 A Yes. 5 December 3rd, 1986. The subject is asbestos labels. 5 Q How long had he been the safety 6 Would you look at that? 6 manager during the time you were there? ; 7 A Okay. 7 A At the time I was at working at 8 Q Do you recognize that document? 8 Rockwell. I believe he predated my joining the 9 A As far as the document itself? 9 company. 10 Q Yes. 10 Q How long after you joined the company 11 A No. 11 did he continue as the safety director if you know? ; 12 Q Have you ever seen it before today? 12 A If I were to estimate I would say 13 A Not that I recall. 13 about 1990. 1 14 Q Does it appear to be an internal 14 Q What happened in 1990? i 15 letter from Rockwell International? 15 A I believe that he retired ; 16 A Yes, it does. 16 approximately in that area. 1 17 Q Does it appear to be genuine? 17 Q Do you know if Mr. Long is still 1 18 A It does. 18 alive? 19 Q Are you familiar with the name of the 19 A Yes, I do. 20 person who wrote the letter? 20 Q Do you know where he is? 1 21 A Yes, I am. 21 A Yes. j 22 Q Again, who is it for the record? 23 A Barbara Borroughf. 22 Q Where is he? j 23 A Unfortunately, he is no longer alive. j 24 Q I'll read the first paragraph and then 24 Q My first question was do you know if i 25 I'll have a question for you. 25 he was still alive? : Page 79 Page 81 j 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 It says "To insure consistency 2 A Yes, I do know. 3 throughout Rockwell Automotive Operations, the 3 Q When did he pass away? 4 enclosed asbestos warning labeling is to be used by 4 A I'm uncertain. ! 5 ail plants for labeling." 6 It lists out different containers, 5 Q There is a gentleman out of the Troy 6 facility named S. Jeffries. j i 7 asbestos containers, laundry bags containing 7 Do you know who S. Jefferies is? 8 protective work clothing used in regulated areas, 8 A Not as I sit here. ! 9 palletized assemblies and boxes of bulk linings? 9 Q Barbara Borroughf, how much longer 10 A Yes. 10 after 1986, if you know, did she continue to work j 11 Q Again does this information refresh 11 for Rockwell International as the regional safety j 12 your recollection as to when Rockwell Automotive 12 manager? 1 1 13 Operations began using asbestos warning labels? 13 A Up until sometime in the nineties. 1 14 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 15 A No. 14 Q What happened at that time? 15 A She left Rockwell. j j 16 Q Why not? 17 A Because I know that they were used 16 Q Do you know where Ms. Borroughf is 17 today? j i 18 prior to this date. 18 A I knew where he was the fast time I 1 19 Q With respect to, I am going to read 19 knew where she was. j 20 off some of the names of the people who appear in 21 the distribution list. 20 21 Q Where was that? A Lear Corporation. 1 3 22 The CC for this particular document is 22 Q When was that? 1 23 a gentleman named W. Long? Do you know who that is? 23 A Probably in the early 2000's. I 24 A Yes. 24 Q Have you had any contact with her 1 25 Q Who is that? 25 since that time? jj 21 (Pages 78 to 81) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 82 Page 84 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 A No. 2 responsibilities were in that position? 3 Q Attached to this particular document 3 A My job was to coordinate activities ; 4 four, the second page is a copy of a warning label. 4 between the various on-highway axle division plants, I 5 Do you recognize that warning label? 5 and primarily purchasing. ; 6 A No. 6 This was during a period of j 7 Q Do you recall ever seeing that warning 7 consolidation and centralization of the purchasing ; 8 label at any time while you were working at 8 function in Troy as well as after that I undertook | 9 Rockwell? 9 special projects. i 10 A Not that I recall. 10 Q What kinds of special projects? 1 11 Q Apparently this warning label at least 11 A Projects for various customers. There 12 as of the date of this letter was being used which 12 were probably other ones in there but I don't i 13 would be sometime in 1986, 13 recall. 14 Did you ever hold a position after 14 Q It's my understanding that you were in 15 1986 that would have allowed you to examine products 15 the position until about 1997? 16 being shipped from Rockwell with this label on it? 16 A 1998. 17 A It's possible. 17 Q All right. ' 18 Q You don't have any specific 18 Your office was located in Troy, i 19 recollection as you sit here today? 19 Michigan? 20 A No, I don't. Again I want to make a 20 A Yes, it was. 21 point here. It's the label used on asbestos waste 21 Q During this time that you were in this ' 22 containers and laundry bags. 22 position, did you become familiar with the suppliers 23 Q Are you able to tell from anything in 23 of the brake linings used in the axies manufactured ; 24 the photocopy of the warning how that was affixed to 24 by Rockwell? ; 25 the product? 25 A lam familiar with some of them. Page 83 1 Ketcham 1 2 Was it adhesive, can you tell me? 2 3 MR. QUICK: Objection to the 3 4 characterization. 4 5 A I cannot tell from looking at this. 5 6 Let me see. No. 6 7 Q Ms. Borroughf, just to clarify for the 7 8 record, was she the person from Rockwell responsible 8 9 for implementing this kind of program to your 9 10 knowledge? 10 11 A Yes. 11 12 Q Was she the regional safety manager 12 13 during the time frame 1978 to 1982? 13 14 A She may have been. I don't know 14 15 exactly when she started that job. 15 16 Q I want to talk a little bit about your 16 17 job when you first moved to Troy. 17 18 I understand that you were In the 18 19 automotive division and you were the manager of the 19 20 highway axie division; is that correct? 20 21 A No. 21 22 Q What was your position? 22 23 A I was the division materials manager 23 24 for the on highway axle division. 24 25 Q Can you describe what your job 25 22 (Pages 82 to 85) Page 85 ; Ketcham Q During this time frame who did f Rockwell purchase brake linings from? When I say 1 brake linings I am going to specify by saying j asbestos. j Are you familiar with who Rockwell purchased its asbestos brake linings from during the j time frame of 1984 to 2000? j A I'm familiar with some of them. i Q Are you familiar with the suppliers of i the brake linings used in Rockwell products? j A The ones I recall were Abex and I Carlisle during this period of time. \ Q Between the two companies, do you j recall whether or not one company was a bigger j customer than the other? ! MR. CANONI: Objection to form. ] Q Do you understand the question? j A They were a big customer. j Q Between the two companies, Abex and j Carlisle, was one company a bigger client than the other? : MR. CANONI: You mean a supplier? MR. BARTELS: A supplier, yes. \ A ... , ... They may have been, I don't know. ] 1.......................... sr-- . ............ -- .------JJ: Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 86 Page 88 j 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham ; 2 Q How was it that you became familiar 2 on, but did Rockwell have a greater market share to ! , 3 with Abex and Carlisle as suppliers of asbestos 3 your knowledge of any particular truck line as j 4 containing brake linings? 4 opposed to any other company during this time frame? 1 5 A During this period of time? 5 A Are you talking about axles? j 6 Q During this period of time. 6 Q Yes. | 7 A During this period of time is when the 7 A In the on highway segment Rockwell j 8 major transition from asbestos-containing brake 8 made axles for medium and heavy trucks. 1 9 linings to non-asbestos-containing brake linings 9 Q lam talking about the truck business. j 10 occurred. 10 A Rockwell did not make axles for light ] 11 Q That's how you became familiar? 11 duty trucks within the segment that Rockwell made s 12 A That's how I became aware of who they 12 axles for medium and heavy duty. I don't know the : 13 were and what the issues were, that's correct. 13 particular market shares that Rockwell had. j 14 Obviously I knew of those companies as I have 14 Q During the time frame 1984 through j 15 testified to from my prior job. 15 1998, who were the OEM's that did business with ; 16 Q During this time between 1978 and 1984 16 Rockwell in the axle business? ; 17 when you were in the on-highway axle division, who 17 A There were a significant number of ; 18 were Rockwell's major competitors in that field? 18 that were major OEM's and there were minor ones. : 19 A As far as axles? 19 Q Who were the major OEM's during the 20 Q Yes. 20 time frame of 1984 through 1998? : 21 A Eaton and Dana. 21 A The major OEM's I am referring to are ; 22 Q How about -- 22 the OEM's in the truck market and not necessarily \ 23 A And there were probably other smaller 23 major to Rockwell, or are you looking at major to 24 ones that I don't recall. 24 Rockwell? j 25 Q How about brake assemblies? 25 Q Yes, from 1984 to 1998. j Page 87 Page 89 ; .1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 A The same. 2 A The significant customers at that i 3 Q Are you familiar at all during this 3 point in time were Ford, Freightliner and GMC. : 4 time frame with the market share and how the market 4 Those were probably the most significant ones. 5 share fell together? Strike that. 5 Q When you say significant, can you 6 Are you familiar with what the market 6 describe what you mean by that? i 7 share of Rockwell was in the brake assembly area 7 A The ones where we sold significant i 8 during the time 1984 to 1998? 8 portions of axles. Again I can't give you the 1 9 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 9 percentage or a market share or anything of that 10 A No. 10 type or nature. 11 Q How about Eaton? 11 Q Did you ever get involved in the ; 12 A No. 12 testing of brake systems for the customers of j 13 Q How about Dana? 13 Rockwell? i 14 A No. 14 A No, I did not. 15 Q Were you ever present during any of 15 Q Which division was responsible for 1 16 presentations within Rockwell where Rockwell 16 testing of the brakes for customers? 17 employees described the various market shares 17 A The primary responsibility, and again 18 between Rockwell, Eaton and Dana? 18 this varied over time, but the primary 1 19 A It is conceivable that I may have 19 responsibility would be the brake business or the 20 been. However, I don't recall at this juncture. 20 brake division. `i 21 Q To your knowledge, was Rockwell 21 Q Where were they located? | 22 stronger in any particular field within the axle 22 A In Troy, Michigan. The division was ] 23 business? 23 located in Troy, Michigan. 1 24 I understand there are different 24 Obviously the plant and manufacturing 1 25 variations based on the weight of the trucks and so 25 facilities were elsewhere. j !___ _ ,,----...----- ------------ .......... --Jl 23 (Pages 86 to 89) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 90 Page 92 I 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 1 2 Q I may have asked you this earlier but 2 that time? I 3 I want to ask it in a different way to jog your 3 A No, I don't. 4 memory. 4 MR. BARTELS; Let's do this. I do | 5 Between 1984 and 1998, which 5 have probably another hour or so at least. ] 6 department within Rockwell was responsible for 6 Let's take a half hour and come back \ 7 negotiating the contracts between the major OEM's 7 at one o'clock and I'll finish, try to j 8 with regard to the supply of brake assemblies and 8 finish this by three at least. 1 9 axles? 9 MR. CANONI: I would hope so. = 10 A To the extent there may have been 10 MR. BARTELS: I think I can do that, j 11 contracts it would have been the sales department. 11 but I'm going to need time to organize. I \ 12 Q During that time frame between 1984 12 can give you the exhibits and we can scan j 13 and 1998 who, if you can recall, was in charge of 13 them and circulate them to counsel. 14 the sales department at Rockwell in the Troy, 14 MR. CANONI: I did try to reach Agatha 15 Michigan facility? 16 A I can't recall as I sit here today. 15 and she had left for lunch before I called 16 and, in fact, I just now finished composing ] 17 Q Do you recall how big the sales 17 an e-mail to her to flesh this out, and if 1 18 department was? 18 you represent to me that you are going to do j 19 A No. 19 that now during the break the e-mail will be j 20 Q Do you recall the names of any of the 21 individuals in sales during that time frame out of 22 the Troy, Michigan facility? 20 21 22 withdrawn and I will tell her it's not our intention that she respond. MR. BARTELS: If counsel does not j j i 23 A Yes. 23 object, where do you want us to send this? 24 Q Can you give me some names that you 24 MR, CANONI: Hold on one second. : 25 can recall? 25 Whoever wants a copy of that documentation : Page 91 1 Ketcham 1 2 A Jim Price, Bob Settler and Larry 2 3 Dowers. There were others, but I don't recall. 3 4 Q Do you know if any of those 4 5 individuals stiil work for Rockwell today, or work 5 6 for what was Rockwell prior to today? 6 7 A Larry Dowers. 7 8 Q Have you been in touch with him at all 8 9 over the last six years or so? 9 10 A Yes. 10 11 Q When was the last time you spoke to 11 12 him, if you can remember? 12 13 A I don't recall. 13 14 Q Do you recall what his position was at 14 15 this time you spoke with him? 15 16 A No, I don't. 16 17 Q Do you know if he was employed by 17 18 either Rockwell or Arvin Meritor? 18 19 A When I last spoke with him, yes. 19 20 Q Which one? 20 21 A Arvin Meritor. 21 22 Q Do you recall where his office was 22 23 located at the time you spoke with him? 23 24 A In Troy, Michigan. 24 25 Q Do you recall what his position was at 25 24 (Pages 90 to 93) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 Ketcham send your e-mail Information to me. (Discussion off the record.) Page 93 ! [ j 1 : 1 * AFTERNOON SESSION 1 f J 3? 1 J 5 3 1 1 13 1 i I ! iz | I 3s | J i 3 j 3 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 94 Page 96 I i Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 mark, we are not going to talk about the j 3 (Time noted: 12:45 p.m.) 3 whole thing but the next exhibit I think is i 4 BRUCE KETCHAM, 4 Exhibit 5. ] 5 resumed and testified as follows: 5 (Ketcham Exhibit 5, service parts I 6 CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY 6 book, marked for identification, as of this j 7 MR. BARTELS: 7 date.) \ 8 Q During the time that you were at 8 MR. BARTELS: Just for the record, it 1 9 Rockwell, were you aware that Rockwell had a 9 is a brochure titled "P" and "T Series j 10 warranty program offered to its customers in 10 Cam-Master Brakes Service Parts Book" issued | 11 general? 11 February of 1980, and it's multiple pages, j 12 A That they offered a warranty, yes. 12 approximately 61 or 62. I am going to ask j 13 Q What is your knowledge regarding the 13 about one page of questions and I would like j 14 warranty or warranties offered by Rockwell to its 14 the witness to look at it now. It's a 15 customers during the time that you were there? I 15 brochure. ] 16 mean the entire time. 16 THE WITNESS: If I could correct that, 17 You would agree there was a warranty 17 it's a service parts book. That's the j 18 program the entire time you were there at Rockwell? 18 proper terminology. j 19 A Yes, 19 MR. CANONI: You want him to look at j 20 Q That warranty program Included the 20 specific pages? j 21 replacement brakes? 21 MR. BARTELS: I will, but I want him j 22 MR. CANONI: Was there a warranty 22 to look generally at it and then I will have j 23 offered on replacement brake products? 23 a question. j 24 MR. BARTELS: Yes. 24 A I have looked at it pretty briefly, j 25 A The warranty, yes, I believe that's 25 yes. ! Page 95 Page 97 j -1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham j 2 correct yes. 2 Q You just looked at it, and do you j 3 Q Warranty program on the original 3 recognize it? j 4 brakes? 4 A I have seen that type of publication 5 In other words, on the OEM brakes that 5 before. | 6 were out sold to the customers there was a warranty 6 Q Does it appear to be a Rockwell ] 7 offered on those products, as well? 7 publication? ] 8 A That's correct. 8 A Yes, it does. j 9 Q Can you describe your understanding of 9 Q The date at the top says issued ] 10 what that warranty program was generally, if you 10 February of 1980. Do you mean it was issued in j 11 know? 11 February of 1980? j 12 A The warranty program over the years 12 A Right, issued February of 1980. I 13 that I was there changed as one might expect. 13 Q What is a service parts book? jj 14 If I recall correctly, originally 14 A A service parts book is a book that j 15 there was a one year warranty on the product as far 15 people could look at to determine what part numbers 1 16 as replacement due to --1 forget what terminology 16 that they needed to order. 1 17 they used. That changed in about 1985 to an 17 Q Who published this book? ] 18 extended warranty which ran up to like five years 18 A Rockwell. 1 19 and 500,000 miles. Later on I think that got 19 Q Just for the record, on the front page j 20 extended beyond five years and to 750,000 miles on 20 of the description it says "Front and rear j 21 the products. 21 applications for trucks, tractors and buses," and it i 22 Obviously that is just the nutshell of 22 shows two designs. j 23 the language in the warranty and the warranty 23 One says P series and one says T j 24 statement obviously speaks for itself. 24 series; is that correct? I 25 MR. BARTELS: What I want to do is 25 A That's correct. \ lj 25 (Pages 94 to 97) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 9B Page 100 I 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q Are you familiar with the P series 2 that was the case as of the date of this publication i 3 that is on the document? 3 in February of 1980? | 4 A In general, yes. 4 A That's what it says. Beyond that I 5 Q What is that? 5 really don't know. ] 6 A It's an old foundation brake typically 6 Q Then at the bottom here it says the I 7 used on rear driver axles on trucks or tractors and 7 following: "All brake linings contain asbestos i 8 possibly buses. 8 fiber. Avoid creating dust. Breathing dust causes j 9 Q How about the T series? 9 serious bodily injury." i 10 A The T series is an older front brake, 10 With respect to this - i 11 foundation brake. 11 A Excuse me, it says may cause serious ; 12 Q The front page, the first full page, 12 bodily harm. : 13 what I want to do is I am going to read some of this 13 Q I'm sorry, I will read it again to - 14 to you and I am going to ask you if you are able to 14 make the record clear. 15 comment one way or another on it. 15 "All brake linings contain asbestos i 16 The first page, actually page number 16 fibers. Avoid creating dust. Breathing asbestos 17 two starts out with "Genuine Rockwell replacement 17 dust may cause serious boldly harm." ; 18 parts are manufactured under the same exacting 18 Did I read that correctly? 19 standards as original equipment brake components". 19 A Yes, you did. j 20 Did I read that correctly? 20 Q With respect to the first statement j 21 A As best I can tell. 21 all brake linings contain asbestos fibers, do you j 22 Q I will come to you and read that 22 have any reason to dispute that as of the date of | 23 again. 23 this publication February of 1980? j 24 "Genuine Rockwell replacement parts 24 A As far as Rockwell no, I don't. ] 25 are manufactured under the same exact standards as 25 Q The labels that you recall being used j Page 99 Page 101 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 3 2 original equipment brake components." 2 at Florence during the time you were there between j 3 Did I read that correctly? 3 1978 and 1982, you were actually there longer but : 4 A Yes, you did. 4 during that time frame, does it compare at ail to 5 Q Do you have any reason to disagree 5 what is in this particular brochure? 6 with that statement based on your knowledge of 6 A I don't recall. 7 Rockwell? 7 Q Do you recall if those labels used the j 8 A No. 8 words caution or warning or anything like that? 1 9 Q Down to the second full paragraph. 9 A I don't recall as I sit here. I j 10 I says "When you buy genuine Rockwell 10 believe some of it is covered in our discovery ] 11 parts you get parts made by the world's largest 11 response. j 12 independent supplier of brake components for heavy 12 Q When you say that, are you talking 13 trucks and commercial vehicles." 13 about the answers to the interrogatories? 14 Did I read that correctly? 14 A I believe so. j 15 A Yes, you did. 15 Q Did you help in putting those answers | 16 Q Do you have any reason to dispute what 16 together? f 17 is written there? 17 A I reviewed them. j 18 A I don't know one way or the other, but 18 Q When they were first put them together j 19 I don't really dispute it. 19 were you asked to help provide information that j 20 Q The last sentence says "Approximately 20 would be but into the interrogatories? j 21 75 percent of all highway tractors have Rockwell 21 A Clarify. I 22 brakes." 22 Q When Rockwell was first or at any time j 23 Did I read that correctly? 23 in any cases where Rockwell was named as a defendant j 24 A Yes, you did. 24 in asbestos cases, were you asked by Rockwell or j 25 Q Do you have any reason to dispute that 25 attorneys for Rockwell to help put together any ! 26 (Pages 98 to 101) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 102 Page 104 ' 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 response to any of those questions as opposed to 2 MR. BARTELS: About anything. 3 just reviewing them after the fact? 3 A Yes. 4 A Yes, 4 Q Did you ever sit through a slide 5 Q With respect to justreviewing them 5 presentation regarding the Q plus Q plus brake? 6 after the fact or did you actually help provide 6 A This is presentation? 7 information? 7 Q Generally Q and Q plus brakes? Not 8 A Yes to both. 8 necessarily this one. 9 Q Yes to both, okay.I wanted to 9 A Not that I recall. 10 clarify. 10 Q What I want to do is there's 11 The next exhibit, again it's a large 11 information contained here that I want to ask you 12 exhibit but I don't intend to ask a lot of questions 12 about and see if you agree with me. I can tell you 13 on it. 13 that we got this document from Rockwell. That's all 14 MR. BARTELS: Exhibit 6. 14 I can say about it. 15 (Ketcham Exhibit 6, slide 15 I'm going to read to you on page two 16 presentation, marked for identification, as 16 titled background the following. 17 of this date.) 17 "Rockwell is a major truck/trailer 18 Q I'm going to show you what I marked as 18 industry in North America. Brakes. Automatic 19 6 for identification. Again you could just look at 19 adjusters, clutches, transmissions, anti-lock 20 it. 20 systems (Rockwell WABCO) hubs, trucks, drums and 21 Before I do that, there's probably 21 other components. 22 between 50 or 60 pages to this document. It's 22 Rockwell offers a complete line of 23 entitled "Slide presentation AV-91109, Rockwell 23 foundation air brakes, cam brakes (Cam-Master) air 24 International, Q and Q Pius brakes, 15 Inch and 16.5 24 disk brakes(Dura-Master) and wedge 25 Inch Series Brakes," and I am handing it to you and 25 brakes(Shopmaster)," Page 103 Page IDS il Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 I would ask you to review it. 2 Did I read that correctly? 3 Have you had a chance to review that 3 A Yes, you did. 4 quickly? 5 A I glanced at it. 4 Q Do you agree during your time with 5 Rockwell that Rockwell is a major truck industry 6 Q Prior to today, have you ever seen 6 supplier of brakes? 7 this document before? 7 A Yes. 8 A Yes, I have. 8 MR. CANONI: Objection. 9 Q You have? 9 Q And clutches? 10 A Yes. 10 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 11 Q Under what circumstances? 11 A No. 12 A I saw it yesterday and I may have seen 13 it sometime before that. 12 13 Q Just brakes? A No, you asked me two questions so far. 14 Q What is your understanding of what 15 this is, this Exhibit 6? 14 Q Do you agree that Rockwell is a major 15 truck/trailer industry supplier of brakes? 16 A I know nothing more than what is 16 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 17 described on the cover sheet there. 18 Q It appears to be a presentation to 17 Q While you were there? 18 A Yes. 19 someone prepared by Rockwell, do you agree? 20 A Yes. 19 Q Do you agree that Rockwell was a major 20 truck tractor and trailer supplier of North America 21 Q Slide presentation on the first page? 21 of clutches during the time at Rockwell while you 22 A That is correct. 22 were there? 23 Q Did you ever sit through a slide 23 A No. 24 presentation while you were at Rockwell? 24 Q Why do you say that? 25 MR. CANONI: About anything? 25 A Because they weren't. Brody Deposition Sen/ices, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 27 (Pages 102 to 105) 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 106 Page 10B 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q What basis do you have to state that 2 when I was there attempted to maintain good working 3 they were not? 3 relationships with the original equipment 4 A I was there. Clutches were made by 4 manufacturer who manufactured the trucks and 5 the Rockwell clutch company which was a joint 5 trailers, and they also attempted to maintain a very 6 venture. Clutches did not enter the marketplace 6 good relationship with the end-users, the fleets 7 until approximately 1987, and when they did enter 7 that were purchasing the trucks, tractors and 8 the marketplace there were no asbestos-containing 8 trailers from the OEM's. 9 components on them. The market share was extremely 9 Q During the time that you were with 10 small. 10 Rockwell do you recall whether or not Hertz was a 11 Q I'm going to turn to the next page, 11 fleet customer? 12 the very next page. At the top it says Rockwell 12 A I don't recall Hertz. They may have 13 International Q and Q Plus Series Brakes, and then 13 been. 14 in parens CONT. 14 Q How about Hertz Penske? 15 It reads as follows. "Rockwell is the 15 A I don't know about Hertz Penske. They 16 leading foundation air brake supplier. Three out of 16 may have been. 17 four vehicles stop with Rockwell brakes. 17 Q Finally just Penske? 18 "Rockwell's strength lies at both the 18 A I have heard the name Penske. 19 end-users and the OEM levels. 19 Q The next statement is "End-user 20 "End-user pull-through efforts by 20 puli-through efforts by Rockwell field sales and 21 Rockwell field sales and service organization. 21 service organization." 22 Standard databook position at all OEMs but one in 22 Do you know what that is referring to? 23 the truck/tractor." 23 A Yes, I do. 24 Did I read that correctly? 24 Q What is that? 25 A Yes. 25 A OEM's typically do not specify Page 107 Page 109 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q Do you agree that Rockwell was the 2 acceptable product that can be used on their 3 leading supplier of air brakes prior at this time? 3 vehicles whether it be Rockwell or a competitor's 4 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 4 product. The OEM's, or rather, I'm sorry, the 5 A That's what it says. 5 end-user has the ability to specify what type of 6 Q Do you agree with that? 6 product they want on the truck or trailer that they 7 A I really don't know. 7 are buying in most cases, especially when you get 8 Q Do you agree with the statement that 8 into the medium and heavy duty trucks, and 9 three out of four vehicles stop with Rockwell 9 therefore, an end user can specify I want Rockwell 10 brakes? 10 axles or Rockwell brakes or the end-user can 11 A Again I don't know the basis for 11 typically specify that I want brand X axles or brand 12 saying that. I will say that this particular visual 12 X brakes on a vehicle. 13 right here is discussing air brakes and that 13 Q Now, if the end-user wanted to use 14 statement applies to air brake vehicles. 14 asbestos brakes, would Rockwell make an effort to 15 Q Having said that, do you agree with 15 satisfy the end-user? 16 that statement? 16 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 17 A I don't agree or disagree, I have no 17 Q Do you understand the question? 18 basis for either. 18 A Could you repeat it again. 19 Q The next statement reads "Rockewell's 19 Q If the end-user specified the use of 20 strength lies both at the end-user and the OEM 20 asbestos brakes on its trucks, did Rockwell attempt 21 level." 21 to comply with that request? 22 Do you know what that means? 22 MR. CANONI: Objection to the form. 23 A Yes. 23 Q During the time that asbestos brakes 24 Q Can you describe what that means? 24 were available? 25 A Rockwell through its course at least 25 MR. CANONI: Same objection. 28 (Pages 106 to 109) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 110 Page 112 I '1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham I 2 A I don't know that I can answer that. 2 that if the end-user does not choose something other j 3 I don't think an end-user would specify asbestos 3 than Rockwell that it will be a Rockwell component i '4 brakes. 4 that is put on to a Rockwell brake. 1 5 Q Why not? 5 In this particular case, since it's j 6 A In the form that you are asking for. 6 dealing with a brake presentation, that would be put i 7 Q How would it be that the end user 7 on to that vehicle. The fleet could choose to put a \ 8 would indicate to Rockwell they preferred a brake 8 different manufacturer's brake on to that vehicle if j 9 that met certain specifications and that brake that 9 they so choose and if it was offered that way by the \ 10 met those specifications had to be an asbestos 10 OEM. ] 11 brake? 11 Q This is considered a good thing? \ 12. MR. CANON!: Objection to form. 12 MR. CANONI: What is? j 13 A The end-user would not specify to 13; MR, BARTELS: Standard databook j 14 Rockwell what they wanted. The end-user would go to 14 position at all of the OEM's but one. ] 15 the OEM for what they wanted on a particular truck 15 A Standard databook position is a good j 16 and they would make the choice based upon what the 16 thing, yes. j 17 OEM has set up as being available, typically 17 Q Can you explain why that is? \ 18 available on that truck. 18 A I think I just did. Do you want me to j 19 Occasionally if they have some special 19 restate it? \ 20 request they can make internal requests to the OEM 20 Q Yes. 1 21 which the OEM can investigate and determine if they 21 A Maybe it could be read back, but I 1 22 want to put it on to a particular truck which may be 22 will try to restate it. There is the databook, and \ 23 a dealer special order situation. 23 in that databook it lists what manufacturers' j 24 Q Then I guess my next question is if 24 components go on to a particular model truck. If i 25 the OEM went to Rockwell and said we need an 25 the end-user does not specify something different, Page 111 Page 113 ] *1 Ketcham 2 asbestos brake on this truck, would Rockwell under 3 those circumstances comply assuming that one was 4 available? 5 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 1 Ketcham 2 it will be in this particular case here a Rockwell 3 brake. 4 If the end-user specifies something 5 different, if they have brand X available and they ] j j 6 A I don't know that the OEM would come 6 want brand Y and brand X is set up for that truck, 7 to Rockwell and state anything in the manner ih 7 the OEM will put that brake on that particular truck | 8 which you have just stated here. 9 Q You don't know of any instance where 8 or trucks for that particular fleet. 9 Q As I understand it, unless a request . j 10 that happened? 10 was made otherwise, it would be a Rockwell product 11 A It is not what I'm familiar with and I 11 that went on to that truck under this idea of 12 don't know of an instance where that would have 13 happened. 12 standard databook position of all OEM's but one? 13 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. j 14 Q The final standard databook position 15 at all OEM's but one, do you know what that is 16 referring to? What is the standard databook 14 Q What you are describing with respect \ 15 to the standard databook is with respect to all ] 16 OEM's but one, we don't know which one it is unless 1 17 position at all OEM's but one? 18 A Standard databook position refers to 17 the end-user specified a different brake and a 18 Rockwell brake would go on to that truck. j 1 19 the OEM databook. 19 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. I 20 Q What is that? 20 A At this particular point in time that j 21 A That is their configuration of 21 was talked about here. \ 22 particular vehicles. So for a particular model you 22 Q Do you know or do you have any f 23 would have these types of axles available and these 23 information to suggest how long Rockwell was in this j 24 types of brakes available and these type of engines 24 position as described here, that they were in a j 25 that are on that. Standard databook position means 25 standard databook position at all OEM's but one? i 29 (Pages 110 to 113) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 0709r , Page 114 Page 116 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 A It varied substantially. I cannot say 2 databook position, but for the ones that are listed 3 when this happened or when it did not happen. 3 as standard alongside of those names, no, I do not. 4 Through the course of 2000 when I was employed there 4 Q You mentioned earlier during the time 5 were various points In time where we were standard 5 frame of 1984 to 1988, you recalled three 6 databook position on OEM vehicles and other there 6 significant customers. Three significant OEM's. 7 were times when we were not. 7 During the time frame of 1984 to 1998 you recalled 8 Q Do you know typically once you got 8 Ford, Freightiiner and GMC. 9 into this position that it stayed that way 9 Does this list refresh your 10 generally? 10 recollection as to any other major OEM's that may 11 A I wouldn't be able to hazard a guess. 11 have been in existence during that same time frame 12 That's a better question for the OEM. 12 1984 to 1998? 13 Q The next page of this Exhibit as 13 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 14 Rockwell international Q and Q Plus series brakes 14 A Those certainly are the major OEM's 15 Rockwell airbrake market positions truck/tractors, 15 that were in existence at various points in time or 16 and then it reads as follows. 16 their predecessor's name, but I believe my response 17 "Rockwell has standard databook 17 I gave you earlier was different from the one you 18 release position with all the OEM's but one and 18 just asked. 19 there's a chart. In the left-hand side it says 19 MR. BARTELS: Let's mark this as 20 Ford, actually I will read across. Ford, STD and it 20 Exhibit 7. 21 says here STD. 21 (Ketcham Exhibit 7, one page document, 22 I assume that stands for standards? 22 marked for identification, as of this date.) 23 A I would presume so. 23 Q Mr. Ketcham, I am going to show you 24 Q Next page says "Ford Std and Std. GMC 24 what is marked as Exhibit 7 for identification. 25 Std. and Std. Freightline Std, and Std. Navistar 25 It's a one page document, and I would ask you to Page 115 Page 117 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Std. and Std. Mack Std. and Std. Volvo Std. and 2 look at that. 3 Std. Kenworth Option and Option and Peterbilt is 3 A Okay. 4 Option and Option." 4 Q Do you recognize that document? 5 Did I read that chart correctly? 5 A I don't know that I have seen It 6 A You read it correctly. 6 before but I'm generally familiar with the document 7 Q Does that refresh your recollection as 7 type. 8 to when this was in effect with Rockwell? In other 8 Q Can you describe the document type? 9 words, where they were the standard book release 9 A It's a technical publication. It is , 10 position with all of these OEM's as they described 10 in the form of a chart with various steps. It talks 11 on this particular chart? 11 about the preventive maintenance guide for the P 12 A What you just read doesn't refresh my 12 series Cam-Master brakes. 13 recollection. However, I believe the front page of 13 Q Can you tell the date of that 14 the chart is dated so my presumption is that it 14 particular document anywhere on the document? What 15 would be something in 1991. 15 date appears on the document? 16 Q When you say 1991, what are you 16 A September 1985. 17 referring to? 17 Q Who would get something like this? 18 A The AV9111. 18 A Somebody that was concerned or 19 Q Does it give amore specific date 19 Involved with the maintenance of the P series 20 other than '91? Do the other numbers have a date? 20 Cam-Master brakes. 21 A No. 21 Q Would that be a mechanic, for 22 Q You don't recall prior to 1991 if 22 instance, possibly? 23 Rockwell had the standard databook release position 23 A It could be a technician, yes. 24 with all the OEM's listed? 24 Q How would they get such a document? 25 A Some of it doesn't have the standard 25 A Documents like this could be 30 (Pages 114 to 117) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 070?' Page 118 Page 120 ; '1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 distributed by our field service organization. They 2 into the language that appears in that particular I 3 could be typically ordered from Rockwell through our 3 box on this document? i `4 publication distribution. They could be provided 4 MR. CANONI: When he was in Florence? j 5 through OEM's. There are various ways at this 5 MR. BARTELS: This appears to be 1985. 6 particular date and time. 6 A In 1985, no, I would not. 7 Q Would Rockwell send those documents 7 Q Do you know if at this time in 1985 8 out without having a request pending? Do you 8 Rockwell was publishing any other warnings that were : 9 understand what I mean by that? 9 worded differently than what appears on this ! 10 In other words, would this be 10 particular document? i 11 something they would send out or would someone 11 A Perhaps. As I said stated earlier, I 12 request it before they would send it out? 12 think some of the our discovery responses probably , 13 A At this particular point in time the 13 responded to that better than I can as I sit here. 14 answer to that is yes to both questions. 14 Q You agree with me that the wording 15 Q Do you recall under what circumstances 15 doesn't appear anywhere in that box? 16 they would simply send this document out as opposed 16 A The warning does not appear within the 17 to waiting for someone to request it? 17 box. j 18 A I believe at this particular point in 18 Q Do you have any reason why Rockwell ; 19 time there were distribution lists for publications, 19 chose to put this language on this document as < 20 and when new publications were issued that documents 20 opposed to something else that may have had the word 21 such as this would be sent to the person on the 21 warning in it? ` 22 distribution list, 22 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 23 Q Who would that be generally? 23 A I was not involved in It at that point 24 A That would be to people requesting It 24 in time so I don't know. 25 or that the field organization handed out. 25 MR. QUICK: May I see it, please. j Page 119 Page 121 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q Would OEM's be on the distribution 2 MR. BARTELS: Yes. 3 list? 3 Q Can you describe what a technical ; 4 A They could be, yes. 5 Q How about end-users? 4 service TSA is? 5 A TSA is a type of publication that goes : 6 A They could be. 6 out to provide specific information, and I guess I 7 Q Do you have a recollection of an OEM 7 would distinguish technical service from say a 8 or an end-user being on such a distribution list as 8 maintenance manual which would include general and 9 the document like you are holding? 10 A I have a recollection, yes. 11 Q At the top of this document in a 9 complete information on the maintenance of a 10 particular product. 11 Q Who would receive a technical service i i 12 square the following is presented. 12 aid from Rockwell? 1 13 It says "Important. Brake lining 13 A Technical service aids could go to 1 14 contains asbestos fibers. Caution should be 14 OEM's or could go to fleets. They could go with 15 exercised in handling and maintenance in described 15 other end-users. j 16 OSHA regulation," and in parens between CFR part 16 Q Was there any policy in place during | 17 1910 1001. 17 the time that you worked at Rockwell regarding the ; 18 That particular language in that box, 18 submission of a technical service aid to any 19 does that refresh your recollection as to what may 19 end-user? 20 have been placed on boxes of products going out of 20 Let me try again. Was there any ; 21 the plant in Florence during the time that you were 21 policy in place about distributing technical service 22 there? 22 aids during the time that you were at Rockwell? 23 A No, this is what this is on this chart 23 A Again, to my recollection, the | 24 and it's not necessarily what is on the boxes. 25 Q At that time did you have any input 24 technical service aids could be generally 25 distributed off of a distribution list or handed out l I .................................... ........... _ _ i 31 (Pages 118 to 121) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 122 lPage 124 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 1 2 by the field service representatives or requested by 2 Q "Exposure to airborn asbestos dust can i 3 parties. 3 cause serious and possibly fatal diseases, namely: i 4 Q What I want to do now is there's a 4 asbestosis, a chronic lung disease, cancer, | 5 series of technical services aids that I'm going to 5 principally lung cancer and mesothelioma in parens. 6 show you. 6 cancer of the lining of the chest or abdominal i 7 First I'll have them marked as 7 cavity." 8 Exhibits 8, 9,10 and 11. 8 Did I read that correctly. j 9 (Ketcham Exhibits 8,9,10 and 11, 9 A Yes. | 10 technical service aids, marked for 10 Q The risk of lung cancers of asbestos ; 11 identification, as of this date.) 11 workers is much greater than nonsmokers? ; 12 A If I could say just before we continue 12 A Yes. 13 with this, technical service aids could also be 13 Q "Symptoms of these diseases are not \ 14 distributed with product. 14 usually seen until 15 to 20 or more years after the i 15 Q lam going to show you Exhibit 8 for 15 first exposure of asbestos." 16 identification and have you look at that. 16 Did I read that correctly? ; 17 A Okay. 17 A Yes. j 18 Q What are you looking at, can you 19 describe it for the record? 18 Q What is the date of this particular 19 technical service aid? : \ 20 A This is actually two documents here. 20 A The date when it was first published j 21 They are both technical service aids. They both 21 or the date it was printed? i 22 carry the subject heading "Recommended Procedures 22 Q The date it was first published if you i 23 for Reducing Asbestos Dust, Cancer and Lung Disease 23 can tell. j 24 Hazard," and "Models All Rockwell Brake Linings With 24 A 1984. 25 Asbestos." 25 Q What is the date 8/86? = Page 123 1 Ketcham 1 2 Q This is prepared by Rockwell? 2 3 A Yes. 3 4 Q Had you seen these documents while you 4 5 were working for Rockwell? 5 6 A Yes. 6 7 MR. CANONI: I'm sorry, these types of 7 8 documents or these particular documents? 8 9 MR. BARTELS: Generally the technical 9 10 service aids. 10 11 A Yes. 11 12 Q Exhibit 8 appears to be a genuine 12 13 Rockwell technical service aid? 13 14 A Yes. 14 15 Q Do you recall ever seeing that 15 16 particular one prior to today? 16 17 A I don't know but I may have. 17 18 Q You would agree that it begins in 18 19 paragraph one, and I'll read this into the record, 19 20 "Because most brake linings contain asbestos, it is 20 21 important that people who handle brake linings know 21 22 the potential hazards of asbestos and the 22 23 precautions to be taken." 23 24 Did I read that correctly? 24 25 A Yes. 25 32 (Pages 122 to 125) Page 125 ' Ketcham 1 A That would have been the date it would ' have been printed. j Q If any changes had been made between ; 1984 and 1986, would you be able to tell what ; changes, if any, were made there? ; A Assuming that changes were made you ; would not know. However, typically as I would look at the publication here I would say that there were : no changes, ; Q So your testimony is that the original technical service aid, as we see it in Exhibit 8, i was first published in 1984? A That's correct. : MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. . This version, this is TSA that we are looking at? j ] MR. BARTELS: Yes. j Q What would be the reason for publishing it in August of 1986? A You had run out of your printings and i 1 1 it needed to be preprinted. j Q lam going to show you Exhibit 9 for f identification and ask you to look at that. A Okay. f j r--------------------r :-------------.g................................ . . 1.-------rrrr^r--r~ Hr=--------- Brady Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 126 Page 12B | 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham j 2 Q Do you recall this document? 2 implemented a warning program for labeling of i ,3 A As a technical service aid, yes. 3 non-asbestos brake linings? 1 '4 Q Again does it appear to be a genuine 4 A Yes. | 5 Rockwell technical service aid? 5 Q What information or knowledge do you j 6 A Yes, it does. 6 recall about that particular program? ! 7 Q Do you recall ever seeing that Exhibit 7 A That the decision was reached to j 8 9 for identification before today? 8 create a warning for non-asbestos brake linings. I 9 A I may very well have. 9 Q Do you know what was the basis for j 10 Q Do you have a recollection of that? 10 implementing that kind of program? j 11 A I don't recall specifically but it's 11 A It was something that was proposed by j 12 something that I may very well have seen before. 12 our legal counsel I believe. j 13 Q What is the date of this particular 13 Q What was your understanding as of 14 publication? 14 November of 1998 about the percentage of brake j 15 A This was printed on 11/19/98. 15 linings that were still being manufactured with j 16 Q When was it published? 16 asbestos, do you know? j 17 A It was published in 1988. 17 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 1 18 Q I will read it into the record. 18 A As far as what linings Rockwell was j 19 The subject is "Recommended Brake 19 purchasing from its suppliers, it was substantially j 20 Service Procedures to Reduce Exposure to 20 non-asbestos linings. 21 Non-asbestos Fiber Dust, Cancer and Lung Disease 21 Q How do you know that? 22 Hazard. Model: All Rockwell Non-asbestos Brake 22 A There was a significant changeover j 23 Linings." 23 between asbestos and non-asbestos linings at j 24 Did I read that correctly? 24 Rockwell. j 25 A Yes, you did. 25 Q lam going to show you Exhibit 10 for j Page 127 Page 129 j -.1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham I 2 Q The first paragraph it starts by 2 identification and ask you to describe what this is. 3 reading "Most brake linings no longer contain 3 A Okay. 4 asbestos fibers." 4 Q Do you recognize that document? ; 5 Did I read that correctly? 5 A I recognize it as a technical 6 A Yes, you did. 6 bulletin. : 7 Q That was a statement on this technical 7 Q Can you describe what a technical 8 service aid as of November of 1998, correct? 8 bulletin is? 9 A That is correct. 9 A A technical bulletin is very similar 10 Q Are you aware of the non-asbestos 10 to a technical service aid. 11 brake, linings program by Rockwell? 11 Q How is it different, if at all? j 12 A Certain areas of it, yes. 12 A I don't know that it is different. 13 Q What familiarity do you have with the 13 Q Again who would have access to the 14 Rockwell non-asbestos brake lining program as 14 technical bulletin? 15 described by this technical service aid? 15 A Again I am not quite sure. The title ; 16 A Well, if I can just clarify, this 16 of the document may have changed from time to time. : 17 technical service aid doesn't describe the 17 I'm sorry, your last question is? 18 changeover from asbestos to non-asbestos linings. 18 Q Who would have access to this 19 It does not discuss the program, so to speak. 19 technical bulletin? j 20 Q Tell me what your familiarity with the 20 A The same type of folks that had the ; 21 warnings regarding the Rockwell non-asbestos brake 21 technical service aid. It could be OEM's or off of 22 linings is, if you have any. 22 mailing lists or distributed by a field personnel or : 23 A Can you clarify or rephrase? 23 could be included in the product. 24 Q Sure. 24 Q Again do you know, does this appear to : 25 Were you aware that Rockwell 25 be a genuine Rockwell technical bulletin? : i 33 (Pages 126 to 129) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 130 1 Ketcham 1 2 A Yes, it does. 2 3 Q What is the date of this particular .3 4 bulletin? ' 4' 5 A It has a revision date of March 1991 5 6 or 3/91. 6 7 Q When was it published? 7 8 A It was published in 1991. 8 9 Q At the bottom of the right-hand corner 9 10 there's some language about superseding. 10 11 Does that indicate which technical 11 12 bulletin was superseded by this particular bulletin? 12 13 A Yes, it supersedes TSA8712. 13 14 Q I notice on the side here there are 14 15 two areas where there is an arrow pointing, and it 15 16 says denotes changes. 16 17 Do you see that? 17 18 A Yes. 18 19 Q What does that mean based on your 19 20 experience with these bulletins? 20 21 A That denotes a change from the prior 21 22 bulletin. 22 23 Q So, in other words, somebody has 23 24 reviewed this, added language and showed which 24 25 language was added by the little arrows? 25 Page 132 Ketcham j Make your objection. I understand you j are preserving the record but I'm trying to j move this along. MR. SANDER: We can't deal with it as i you move along if you go piecemeal. I'm not trying to be obstreperous. I'm \ 1 trying to preserve my client's rights. I can't tell if you are reading them \ correctly because I can't see the documents. 1 MR. BARTELS: I understand. 1 MR. SANDER: I have e-mailed Agatha a j couple of times and I have got the addresses j that I knew, and I advised her as I said on ] the record earlier that we were told that j the documents would be sent to us and that 1 seems for the moment to resolve the problem, j Now I'm going to have to get back to j her and say we don't have all the documents j here. This is perhaps much ado about j nothing but we don't know that. We are sitting here in ignorance, and we have been courteous to allow the j j deposition to proceed by telephone with no notice, and now we are being whipsworded j Page 131 Page 133 j 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 1 2 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 2 between these documents, some of which we ; 3 A Which language was changed, yes. 3 get and some we don't. 4 Q You will see at the top of paragraph 4 If you going to proceed, I'm going to j 5 one, again I'm going to read along, it begins 5 keep notifying the court. i 6 "Because most brake linings contain asbestos it's 6 MR. BARTELS: I understand. i 7 important that people who handle brake linings note 7 Q Exhibit 11, do you recognize that? : 8 the potential hazards of asbestos and the 8 A The format is a technical bulletin, : 9 precautions to be taken." 9 yes. ; 10 Did I read that correctly? 10 Q Again do you recognize that as a 11 A You read it correctly. It is 11 genuine Rockwell technical bulletin? 12 incorrect, but you read it incorrectly. 12 A Yes, it appears to be. 13 Q Now, Exhibit 11 for identification. 13 Q Again, who would have access to this j 14 MR. SANDER: I would interject that I 14 Rockwell technical bulletin? 15 have received from one of the other defense 15 A The same categories of people that we 16 counsel the e-mails that were forwarded 16 talked about before from the OEM's to the end-user : 17 earlier with exhibits, and in terms of 17 and it could be distributed by the distribution list 1 18 numbering or the type of documents that have 18 or it could be distributed by the field organization 19 been marked I am wondering whether 19 and it could appear with product that this 20 everything has been scanned. 20 particular bulletin could apply to. j 21 MR. BARTELS: No, not everything has 21 Q It's titled "Recommended Brake Service j 22 been scanned. 22 Procedures to Reduce Exposure to Non-asbestos Fiber 1 23 MR. SANDER: Silly question. Why not? 23 . Dust, a Cancer and Lung Disease Hazard. For All \ 24 MR. BARTELS: Bill, I haven't got to 24 Rockwell Non-Asbestos Brake Linings." j 25 tell you. 25 It says "Riveting Linings on "P" and j 34 (Pages 130 to 133) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 134 Page 136 i ' 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham ] 2 "Q: Series Cam Brake Shoes." 2 A Typically on the width of the shoe. j 3 Is that correct? 3 Q What is the width of the shoe? j 4 A Correct. 4 A The width of the shoe is the metal j 5 Q Again the first paragraph I am going 5 component that is attached to the shoe. j 6 to read. 6 Q How do you know that? j 7 Is says; "Most recently manufactured 7 MR. CANONI: How does he know where 8 brake linings no longer contain asbestos fibers. In 8 the label was affixed or how does he know | 9 place of asbestos, these linings contain a variety 9 what the width is? 10 of ingredients," 11 Did I read that correctly? 10 Q How do you know there was such a 11 warning based on the width of the assembly? 1 12 A Yes, you did. 12 A Because I have seen it. I 13 MR. QUICK: Is there a date on Exhibit 13 Q For what time frame did Rockwell do 14 11? 14 that? 15 Q If you can tell the date of that 15 A From at least 1986 and perhaps ; 16 particular document? 16 earlier. 17 A This document was printed in 18 January 1992 and it supersedes TSA 6-83. 17 Q When you say perhaps earlier, how 18 earlier? I 19 Q Thank you. 19 A I don't recall offhand. There may be j 20 Did you ever have any responsibilities 20 some information in some discovery responses. 21 for preparing any of these technical service aids or 21 Q So, in other words, your recollection 1 22 technical service bulletins? 22 is that at least as of 1986 Rockwell placed warnings j 23 MR. CANONI: The ones you just showed 23 on Rockwell brake assemblies? : 24 him or any one? 24 A Yes, on Rockwell brake shoes that had 25 MR. BARTELS: Any one. 25 asbestos lining on them. Page 135 Page 137 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham : 2 A I may have reviewed them. I did not 2 Q A brake shoe is actually the metal ; 3 prepare them. 3 part of the brake that the lining is attached to? j 4 Q Any of the ones you just saw, did you 4 A That is correct. The lined brake shoe i 5 have anything to do with the actual preparation of 5 would be the metal portion with the lining attached j 6 those actual either technical aids or technical 6 to it. 7 bulletins? 8 A I really don't recall. It's possible 7 Q How would this have been attached to 8 the brake shoe? 1 ; 9 I may have. j 9 A It was an adhesive label. i 10 Q At any time while you were at 10 MR. CANONI: I think we already saw it \ 11 Rockwell, do you know whether or not Rockwell ever 11 in one of these documents. ; 12 actually placed a warning on thd actual housing 13 itself, or the brake housing itself on an axle 12 Q The adhesive label was supposed to 13 last how long, if you know? : ; 14 regarding potential hazards of asbestos? 14 A I don't know. ; 15 A I don't know what you mean by brake 15 Q As counsel pointed out, there may have 16 housing. 16 been a document that you looked at that describes 17 Q In other words, on the actual product 17 this labeling process; is that correct? 18 itself, the actual axle, at any time while you were 18 A Yes. 19 at Rockwell did Rockwell take and place a warning on 19 Q Have I showed that to you? I 20 that particular axle, any particular axle regarding 20 A Oh, yes. 21 the warnings of exposure to asbestos? 21 Q Do you know which exhibit it was? 1 22 A Rockwell would have placed a warning 22 A Not off the top of my head. : 23 label on brake shoes that contained asbestos 24 containing-brake lining. 25 Q Where would they place it? 23 MR. CANONI: It might have been number 24 3. i 1 25 MR. BARTELS: I'm looking at 2, and | .- . ...................................................... 1 35 (Pages 134 to 137) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 138 Page 140 i 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 this is 3, okay. 2 were going to stop the production of asbestos ; 3 Q lam going to show you Exhibit 3. 3 linings? j 4 That's what you are referring to as a 4 A No, I don't. 5 description of where the warnings would be placed on 5 Q As a result of that announcement what, 6 the brake shoe? 6 if anything, did Rockwell do with respect to the ! 7 A No, this is a description of the 7 changeover? i 8 testing that was done with the label attached to the 8 A It planned for the changeover as best j 9 brake shoe. 9 it could. The lining manufacturers had to shut 10 Q How about Exhibit 2? Let me show you 10 their plants down for a period of time to permit the | 11 that. Maybe that describes it a little. 11 change within their plants, and Rockwell had to do j 12 A Yes. 12 some advanced planning and by lining in advance so | 13 Q So, in other words, what you are 13 that Rockwell could continue production of brake : 14 saying is those labels were actually being placed on 14 shoes and assemblies during the period of time in 15 the brake shoe of a brake that contained asbestos? 15 which the lining manufacturer were not manufacturing 16 A No, any label that is shown on here 16 at all. ; 17 was of the type that was placed on the brake. 17 Rockwell had to continue its testing j 18 Q Do you recall the language of the 18 and development of non-asbestos linings for products ] 19 label that was placed on the brake? 19 when there was not a suitable non-asbestos lining j 20 A I believe, based upon my recollection, 20 available and identified previously. j 21 that it would have been either label one or label 21 Q So as I understand your answer, when j 22 two of Exhibit 2. 22 the announcement came from the two major suppliers 23 Q What position did you have with the 23 Rockwell in anticipation of the changeover purchased i 24 company in 1986, in September of 1986? 24 asbestos linings in advance to continue to be used ] 25 A What business did I have? 25 while the changeover was taking place? \ Page 139 Page 141 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q Yes, with the company. 2 A In general that is what I said. 3 A I was the division materials manager 3 Q They also had to then again do testing 4 for the on-highway axle division. 4 on none asbestos brakes for use going forward on the i 5 Q Did you ever take part at all in the 5 trucks that they serviced? 6 asbestos-labeling program as defined In Exhibit 2? 6 A For linings and brakes that had not 7 A No, obviously in some of the plants 7 been previously tested and approved for use. 8 that I was involved were named in here. 8 Q In fact, isn't it true there were some : 9 MR. CANONI: He wants to know you 9 difficulties early on with the non-asbestos linings 10 personally. 10 that were available in regards to performance? 1 11 Q You described before that during the 11 A There may have been. I don't have any 1 12 time frame 1984 to 1988 Rockwell began to implement 12 specific recollection of them. j 13 a changeover from asbestos to non-asbestos; is that 13 Q Prior to the announcement, prior to 5 14 correct? 14 the announcement of these two brake linings \ 15 A There was a significant changeover 15 suppliers that they were no longer going to be j 16 during that period of time. 16 manufacturing asbestos-containing brakes, would you j 17 Q Can you describe for me what that 17 agree that trucks that used asbestos brakes were j 18 significant change was? 18 actually told to use asbestos brakes because of the j 19 A Two of the major lining suppliers that 19 performance of the asbestos brakes? 20 manufactured asbestos lining changed to the 20 MR. CANONI: Objection to the form. ! 21 production of non-asbestos lining. 21 A Obviously when you inspect a brake the i 22 Q Can you recall who those manufacturers 22 brake is inspected in order to meet certain specific 23 were? 23 performance criteria, whether that lining material 24 A Carlisle and Abex. 24 was asbestos or whether it was non-asbestos or j 25 Q Do you recall when they announced they 25 whether it was some other type of formula. - . .. .. . i 36 (Pages 138 to 141) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 . Page 142 Page 144 ' 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 Q You would agree up to a certain point 2 development and testing. : 3 the majority, if not at all, product brake linings 3 Q When these two brake linings suppliers | 4 were asbestos? 4 made the announcement they were not going to make : 5 A To a point, yes. 5 any more asbestos linings, did Rockwell have to I 6 Q The performance requirements of the 6 begin the process of testing the new non-asbestos 7 braking systems on those trucks were met for 7 linings with the changeover going into the future? 8 asbestos and not non-asbestos? 8 MR. CANONI: Objection. ] 9 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 9 A On some of them yes and on some of I 10 A I disagree with that. 10 them no. Certain linings had already been through 11 Q Why? 11 the development and testing process by Rockwell. 12 A The performance that was required was 12 The lining manufacturer and my presumption is also : 13 there in order to meet the federal government 13 the vehicle OEM's and others had not been. 14 regulations pertaining to either distance and/or the 14 Q Prior to the announcement what ! 15 holding capacity if you are dealing with brakes. 15 percentage of brakes used by Rockwell contained i 16 Q Up to that point asbestos was meeting 16 asbestos versus non-asbestos, if you know? 17 those requirements because that's ail they would 17 A Prior to the announcement? I 18 use, whatever that point was? 18 Q Do you know when brake lining I 19 MR. CANONI: Objection do form. 19 suppliers would no longer be manufacturing asbestos : 20 A I don't know if I understand your 20 brake linings? j 21 question. Maybe you can clarify it. 21 A I don't recall specifically when that j 22 Q In other words, up to a certain point 22 announcement was and if I did I would not know the i 23 in time the trucks were reaching those federal 23 percentage that was asbestos versus non-asbestos. j 24 requirements by using asbestos brakes that had 24 Q Do you know how many asbestos linings \ 25 previously been tested and passed? 25 Rockwell purchased in advance to meet demands during : Page 143 Page 145 . 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham j 2 MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 2 the time that these two brake lining suppliers were : 3 A Of course, otherwise it would not have 3 not going to their plant? j 4 been specified by the truck manufacturer and by 4 A It varied. 5 Rockwell as being a suitable brake for a certain 5 Q Can you give me an estimate? 6 performance characteristics. 6 A I can give you some general criteria. 7 Q In order to change to non-asbestos 7 I can't give an estimate. I can give you some 8 brakes you had to do testing to ensure the 8 general criteria. 9 non-asbestos brake complied with the very same 9 If a suitable non-asbestos brake 10 federal standards? 10 lining formula had been developed, approved and : 11 A Those standards as well any other 11 tested, a minimal amount of lining would have been 12 internal standards, yes. 12 ordered and stocked to provide for the transition 13 Q Rockwell began the process of doing 13 from asbestos to non-asbestos linings because when 14 that at/or near the time that these brake lining 14 the lining manufacturers would start back on up they j 15 suppliers announced they would no longer be working 15 would have the capability of manufacturing suitable j 16 with asbestos brakes or making asbestos linings? 16 approved tested lining materials on particular f 17 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 17 linings for which there was no approved and tested l 18 A I don't believe so. 18 non-asbestos lining substitute. ! 19 Q Why not? 19 Greater quantities of those linings j 20 A Because I believe it started earlier 20 would have been, greater quantities of those j 21 than that. 21 asbestos linings would have been procured and j 22 Q Do you know how much earlier? 22 stocked in order to allow not only for the 1 23 A If my recollection is correct, I 23 changeover of the lining manufacturer but also for \ 24 believe it was perhaps in the early eighties that 24 development, testing and approval of a suitable i 25 some initial non-asbestos brake linings were in 25 non-asbestos lining substitute. j -------------. . ---- ... 1 ----_iti .. i ------------ --SJ 37 (Pages 142 to 145) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 146 1 Ketcham 1 2 Q It's my understanding that the problem 2 3 with the non-asbestos linings concerned the heavier 3 4 trucks trucks versus the lighter trucks; is that 4 5 correct? 5 6 MR. SANDER: Objection to form. 6 7 A In general it related to heavier 7 8 linings which are typically used in heavier 8 9 vehicles. 9 10 Q Do you recall the general weight of 10 11 the vehicles in question and whether there was 11 12 concern about an adequate non-asbestos lining 12 13 replacement? 13 14 A I cannot as I sit here today. I don't 14 15 know that. 15 16 Q But in any event the trucks that had 16 17 suitable non-asbestos linings available were the 17 18 lighter duty trucks at that time. 18 19 Do you agree with that? 19 20 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 20 21 A It all depends on what you mean by 21 22 lighter duty. They were stili heavy trucks, but the 22 23 lining requirements were in general for the lower 23 24 co-efficient of friction linings as opposed to 24 25 higher co-efficient linings. 25 Page 147 1 Ketcham 1 2 Q So at that time during this changeover 2 3 the higher co-efficient replacement brakes had to 3 4 undergo additional testing before an approved 4 5 non-asbestos lining? Let me start again. 5 6 How long, if you recall, how long was 6 7 this period where the plants were being retooled? 7 8 Do you remember how long this period was before they 8 9 started manufacturing solely non-asbestos linings? 9 10 A I can give an estimate which is 10 11 approximately three months. 11 12 Q Do you recall specifically any 12 13 customers of Rockwell that tended to use the 13 14 asbestos linings beyond this three month period that 14 15 you just described? 15 16 A Do I know of any specifically, no. 16 17 Q Do you know how long before? 17 18 A But obviously they would have, 18 19 Q Do you know how long before Rockwell 19 20 approved a high co-efficient non-asbestos brake for 20 21 use in the high co-efficient trucks? I am going to 21 22 call them trucks. 22 23 . MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 23 24 A I do not. 24 25 Q Do you have a recollection of when 25 38 (Pages 146 to 149) Ketcham Page 148 \ | such a brake was approved by Rockwell, the j approximate date that it was suitable for a ] non-asbestos lining brake for high co-efficient 1 trucks that we are talking about? MR. CANONI: Objection as to form. 1 | A I don't know specifically. It I certainly took beyond three months, and I don't know i where it was in the continuum of the time after that j it was that suitable linings were available. Q Do you know when Rockwell last sold, i or supplied a brake lining that contained asbestos? ; A In any market? Q In any market. -\ A The late nineties, i Q When you say any market, are you ! talking about International as well? ] A No, I am talking about on highway versus off highway. 1 Q Let's talk about on highway. When was i the last time offered in the United States there was j an on-highway asbestos brake lining? j A I can give an estimate. It would be | probably in the early nineties. j Q Do you recall under what circumstances | 1 i Page 149 f Ketcham | they were offering that lining? j A That was part of the carry-over f production of brake using the asbestos brake linings that had been set aside as part of the conversion 1 program. = Q Who were the customers at that time j who were actual purchasers using these asbestos linings? j A Again to my recollection those most : likely were some of the brakes that were used in vehicles that had a need for the high co-efficient : of friction. I Q Do you recall who the customers were? i Was it International or Mack? A I really can't recall. 1 Q Have you seen documents describing the ! uses of asbestos linings with a specific customer j that went into the nineties? j A Not that I recall. 1 Q How do you remember that was the case? j A From talking with various people over j time. j Q Do you know whoithe manufacturers of j the brake linings were that were still being used in 1 J Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 150 Page 152 1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 the nineties that were being sold to these 2 Q Let's go back to the warranty program 3 customers? 3 that is being offered by Rockwell. ;4 A I do not. 4 A Could we take a three minute break? i 5 Q When Rockwell made the purchase of 5 Q Absolutely. 6 asbestos linings after hiring an expert to go to 6 (Recess taken.) ; 7 non-asbestos, who did they purchase these asbestos 7 Q Back on the record. 8 linings from if you know? 8 Sir, I want to talk again about the 9 A The ones that I recall were Abex and 9 Rockwell warranty program as it related to brakes 10 Carlisle. 10 during the time that you worked for Rockwell. 11 Q Have you ever seen documents, Rockwell 11 Can you describe generally how the 12 documents describing the purchase of these advanced 12 warranty program worked, if you know? 13 purchases of asbestos brake linings? 13 A Probably not. It would be best if I l 14 A I may have. 14 didn't. 15 Q Do you know if these were documents 15 Q Do you know if there was somebody 16 that you saw while you were working there or when 16 within Rockwell during the time that you worked 17 you were working as a consultant? 17 there that actually was in charge of the warranty ; 18 A It would have been when I was working 18 program? 19 there. 19 A Yes. 20 Q Was there somebody in charge of the 20 Q Do you recall who that person or 21 program? By program, was someone in charge of 21 persons were? 22 actually making these advanced purchases of asbestos 22 A During what period of time? 23 linings? 23 Q From 1978 through the time that you 24 A lam sure there was. 24 left. I am actually more interested in 1978 to i 25 Q You just don't know who it was? 25 1988. Page 151 Page 153 .1 Ketcham 1 Ketcham 2 A I don't recall who it was at this 2 A I believe his name was John Marshall 3 time. 3 for a portion of those years, and I want to say that ; 4 Q What department would have been 4 that would be between like '85 and '95 but those i 5 responsible for that? 5 dates may not be correct. I 6 A It probably would have been, as far as 6 Q Do you know if Mr. Marshall still 7 the purchases themselves it would have been 7 works for Rockwell and Arvin Meritor? 8 purchasing. 8 A He does not. 9 Q You mentioned an off-highway, and what 9 Q Do you know where he is? 10 do you mean by off-highway? 10 A No, I don't. 11 A For vehicles that are used off 11 MR. BARTELS: Let me check real quick, : 12 highways, such as front-end loaders and large lift 12 I may be done. ;i 13 trucks and scrapers and those types of vehicles, as 13 Thank you, sir. That's all the 14 opposed to tractors or tractor-trailers that would 14 questions I have at this time. ! 15 be used to transport on the highway. Basically 15 Does anybody have any questions? I am | 16 construction type or industrial type of equipment. 16 taking that as a no and we will end this. i 17 Q Do you know who was in charge of the 17 MR. CANONI: Thank you very much. i 18 testing undertaken by Rockwell to come up with 18 MR. McGUIRE: This is Joe McGuire. Is 1 19 suitable non-asbestos linings for use by its OEM's? 19 the court reporter there? I want a 20 MR. CANONI: Objection to form. 20 transcript sent to us and we would also like 21 A Testing would have been done by a 21 the transcript exhibits. 22 lining manufacturer and testing the development 22 (Time noted: 2:38 p.m.) 23 would have been done by the brake engineering within 23 24 Rockwell and then testing undoubtedly was also done 25 by truck and trailer OEM's. 24 25 . 4 1 1 ..... .............. ...........................--------- --------Ji 39 (Pages 150 to 153) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Wood bridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 156 1 Ketcham 2 3 CERTIFICATE 4 STATE OF NEW YORK ) ) ss.: 5 COUNTY OF NEW YORK ) 6 I, JUDITH A. FROST, a Shorthand Reporter 7 and Notary Public within and for the State of New 8 York, do hereby certify; 9 That BRUCE KETCHAM, the witness whose 10 deposition is hereinbefore set forth, was duly sworn 11 by me, and that this transcript of such deposition 12 is a true record of the testimony given by the 13 witness. 14 I further certify that I am not related to 15 any of the parties to this action by blood or 16 marriage, and that I am in no way interested in the 17 outcome of this matter. IB IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 19 hand this 5th day of March, 2007. 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 (Page 156) Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 1 ABBOTT 4;9 abdominal 124:6 kbex 1:1142:19,23 60:23,23 61:9,10,11 61:13 64:19 85:12,20 86:3 139:24 150:9 ability 9:10 109:5 able 52:23 64:14 82:23 98:14114:11 125:5 Absolutely 152:5 acceptable 109:2 access 129:13,18 133:13 Acceturo 1:5,8 accident 12:3 accidents 10:15 accommodate 70:20 accuracy 28:11 33:5 accurate 30:4,23 34:17 47:25 accurately 9:4 30:11 30:19 acting 41:13 action 156:15 active 15:12 activities 84:3 actual 135:5,6,12,17,18 149:8 ad 1:6 kd 62:22 added 130:24,25 additional 147:4 addresses 132:13 adequate 146:12 adhesive 58:23 63:17 66:10,19 67:13 83:2 137:9,12 adjourned 71:22 adjusters 24:24 104:19 administer 6:12 Administratrix 1:6,6 ado 132:20 advance 140:12,24 144:25 advanced 16:6 140:12 150:12,22 advised 132:14 affixed 58:24 66:11 75:23 82:24 136:8 affixing 76:11,13 AFTERNOON 94:2 after-market 21:11,14 21:18 22:23 24:4 38:9 39:12,13,16,25 41:10 48:10 50:15 61:20 Agatha 71:18,24 92:14 132:12 ago 36:7 69:10 agree 41:20 74:3,21 94:17 103:19 104:12 105:4,14,19 107:2,6 107:8,15,17 120:14 123:18 141:17 142:2 146:19 AGREED 6:2,6,9 agreement 45:25 agreements 45:21 47:6 aid 121:12,18 123:13 124:19 125:12 126:3 126:5 127:8,15,17 129:10,21 aids 5:16 35:2 66:15 121:13,22,24 122:5 122:10,13,21 123:10 134:21 135:6 air 104:23,23 106:16 107:3,13,14 airborn 124:2 airbrake 114:15 al 1:11 aligned 23:8 65:16 alive 80:18,23,25 allow 132:23 145:22 allowed 82:15 alongside 116:3 America 104:18 105:20 amount 145:11 analysis 11:10,22 20:9 27:13,15 38:25 39:6 analyst 14:18,18 16:11 and/or 33:21 45:20 142:14 announced 139:25 143:15 announcement 140:5 140:22 141:13,14 144:4,14,17,22 answer 9:4,7 49:22 110:2 118:14 140:21 answered 9:9 answers 101:13,15 anticipation 140:23 anti-lock 104:19 anybody 153:15 apparent 68:3 Apparently 82:11 appear 28:25 73:6 78:14,17 79:20 97:6 120:15,16 126:4 129:24 133:19 appeared 7:23 34:20 35:10 appearing 10:19 37:14 appears 28:17 73:3 103:18 117:15 120:2 120:5,9 123:12 133:12 applications 97:21 applied 59:17 applies 107:14 apply 133:20 approval 145:24 approved 141:7 145:10 145:16,17 147:4,20 148:2 approximate 38:4 148:3 approximately 7:16 11:4 12:15 13:6,8 17:2418:9,18,20 19:13,15 22:5 25:19 28:19 38:10,12,15 40:18 80:16 96:12 99:20 106:7 147:11 approximation 7:14 area 14:12 80:16 87:7 areas 79:8 127:12 130:15 Army 15:13,17 arrives 62:13 arrow 130:15 arrows 130:25 Arvin 10:20 37:15 91:18,21 153:7 asbestos 5:10,12 7:19 7:23,24 12:4 27:9 29:2 30:12 31:3,10 31:19 32:3,7,16,25 33:6,22 35:4 42:6 56:13 59:24 60:22 62:7,11,22 63:3 64:24 67:22 68:6,8 68:16,20,21 69:5,9 69:13 70:8 72:7 74:5 74:10,25 75:4,11,12 75:19 76:23 77:7,9 77:15,20,24 78:5 79:4,7,13 82:21 85:5 85:7 86:3 100:7,15 100:16,21 101:24 109:14,20,23 110:3 110:10 111:2 119:14 122:23,25 123:20,22 124:2,10,15 127:4,18 128:16,23 131:6,8 134:8,9 135:14,21,23 136:25 138:15 139:13,20 140:2,24 141:4,17,18,19,24 142:4,8,16,24 143:16 143:16 144:5,16,19 144:23,24 145:13,21 147:14 148:12,22 149:4,8,18 150:6,7 150:13,22 asbestos is 124:4 asbestos-containing 26:2427:21 34:23 56:18 58:9 60:15,19 63:11,22 66:17 86:8 106:8 141:16 asbestos-labeling 139:6 Ascam 24:16,20 aside 149:5 asked 55:6 71:13 90:2 101:19,24 105:13 116:18 asking 59:21 110:6 assembles 40:7 assemblies 23:10 24:10 24:12,18 35:11 39:21 39:25 42:5 43:7 44:18 45:10 46:12 47:15 49:5,16 50:6 50:12,12,14,14 55:4 61:9,10,21,22 62:2,4 62:6,7 79:9 86:25 90:8 136:23 140:14 assembly 15:25 22:2 23:5 24:13,14,21 41:2148:8,15,17 60:22 63:3 87:7 136:11 assigned 22:15 assignments 18:23 assisting 11:23 12:2 associated 69:9 assume 13:23 30:10 62:6 114:22 assuming 29:19 111:3 125:7 attach 65:12 attached 24:23 34:23 50:6,13 59:25 82:3 136:5 137:3,5,7 138:8 attempt 109:20 attempted 108:2,5 attorneys 3:6,12,18 4:4 4:10,15,21 6:3 101:25 at/or 143:14 August 125:20 author 72:11 authority 54:13 authorized 6:11 39:19 50:21,24 51:4,15 auto 4:4 38:7 Automatic 104:18 automotive 4:15 10:25 11:3,20 12:6,9,21,22 17:11 18:2120:20,22 20:23,25 37:2,6 38:1.7 39:3,4,7 44:10 74:11,16 79:3,12 83:19 available 52:20 71:5 109:24 110:17,18 111:4,23,24113:5 140:20 141:10 146:17 148:10 Avenue 4:5 average 47:21 Avoid 100:8,16 AV-91109 102:23 AV9111 115:18 aware 29:25 31:9,13 32:2 40:22 69:5,13 86:12 94:9 127:10,25 awry 70:7 axle 19:5,9 38:20 45:2 45:25 46:4 47:24 48:7,8 50:11 52:9 65:11 83:20,24 84:4 86:17 87:22 88:16 135:13,18,20,20 139:4 axles 43:15,18 44:15,16 44:16,16,19,19,19 45:15,18,2146:2,7 47:7,15 49:4,15,15 50:5,6,13,13 55:4 84:23 86:19 88:5,8 88:10,12 89:8 90:9 98:7 109:10,11 111:23 a.m2:7 B B 5:6 7:2 94:4 back 14:19 15:14,18 21:6 34:21 39:9 49:21,23 92:6 112:21 132:18 145:14 152:2 152:7 background 37:16 104:16 bags 79:7 82:22 Barbara 72:10 78:23 81:9 Bartels 3:5,9 5:5 7:7 36:9,15,19,23 37:9 52:17 53:3 62:15 69:15 70:23 71:10,16 71:19,23 75:25 76:12 76:21 77:22 85:24 92:4,10,22 94:7,24 95:25 96:8,21 102:14 Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 3age 2_______________ 104:2 112:13 116:19 120:5121:2 123:9 125:18 131:21,24 132:11 133:6 134:25 137:25 153:11 based 33:3 74:14 87:25 99:6 110:16 130:19 136:11 138:20 basically 14:24 22:12 23:18 31:3,4 151:15 basis 106:2 107:11,18 128:9 Bate 53:2,4 began 19:24 33:13,14 37:4,9,20 79:13 139:12 143:13 beginning 12:23 33:7 begins 123:18 131:5 behalf 55:12 belief 30:11 believe 8:3 14:17,18 15:15 19:14,16 25:15 27:3 28:14 29-20 33:2 34:22 40:3 42:20 45:9 49:6 53:24 56:23 62:19 64:9 80:8,15 94:25 101:10,14 115:13 116:16 118:18 128:12 138:20 143:18,20,24 153:2 Bendix 42:20,23 64:19 benefit 3 8:2 Benson 2:11 3:11 best 9:9 30:24 49:10 51:10 55:14 98:21 140:8 152:13 better 17:9 34:2,12 52:23 114:12 120:13 beyond 95:20 100:4 147:14 148:8 big 85:19 90:17 bigger 85:15,21 Bill 131:24 bit22:3 83:16 blank 55:10 blood 156:15 blue 66:9 Bob 91:2 bodily 100:9,12 boldly 100:17 book5:13 96:6,10,17 97:13,14,14,17 115:9 Boroughf 72:11,13 Borroughf 78:23 81:9 81:16 83:7 bottom 100:6 130:9 box 58:10 63:2,2,4,6,10 63:15,15,18 66:9,11 66:13,23 119:18 120:3,15,17 boxed 21:25 62:25 65:23 boxes 25:20,23 34:23 56:18,21 57:13,20,21 57:23 58:2,8,24 59:24 60:5,14,20 64:10,12,24 66:2,5,6 66:19 67:6 74:2,25 79:9 119:20,24 brake 22:25 23:2,5,10 24:12,13,14,15,16,17 24:20,20,23,25 27:21 35:11 39:20,22,24,25 40:6,7,13,23 41:8,12 41:14,18,20,21,25 42:4,5,12 43:7,7 44:17,20 45:6,8,10 46:12,14,25 47:15 48:8,15 49:5,15 50:5 50:12,14 55:4 58:9 59:24 60:22 61:9,13 61:20,22 62:6,7,8 64:5,7,12,17,22 65:3 84:23 85:3,4,7,11 86:4,8,9,25 87:7 89:12,19,20 90:8 94:23 98:6,10,11,19 99:2,12 100:7,15,21 104:5 106:16 107:14 110:8,9,11 111:2 112:4,6,8 113:3,7,17 113:18 119:13 122:24 123:20,21 126:19,22 127:3,11 127:14,21 128:3,8,14 131:6,7 133:21,24 134:2,8 135:13,15,23 136:23,24 137:2,3,4 137:8 138:6,9,15,15 138:17,19 140:13 141:14,21,22 142:3 143:5,9,14,25 144:3 144:18,20 145:2,9 147:20 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Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 67:7,14,20,21 68:5 68:11,13 69:3 73:22 73:24 74:25 101:2 i 119:21 120:4 FIorham4:17 flow 5:9 52:15,22 focus 44:11 folks 129:20 following 8:20 100:7 104:16 119:12 follows 7:5 94:5 106:15 114:16 force 6:12 Ford 23:21,22 89:3 114:20,20,24116:8 foreman 15:25 forget 95:16 form 6:7 30:13 48:2 60:7 66:3 72:20 73:5 74:18 75:14 77:8 79:14 85:17 87:9 105:10,16 107:4 109:16,22 110:6,12 111:5 113:13,19 116:13 117:10 120:22 125:15 128:17 131:2 141:20 142:9,19 143:2,17 146:6,20 147:23 148:6 151:20 format 133:8 formula 141:25 145:10 forth 156:10 forward 141:4 forwarded 131:16 foundation 23:5,10 44:17 45:6,8 98:6,11 104:23 106:16 four 14:9 18:9 38:12 76:22 82:4 106:17 107:9 frame 20:15 27:24 28:7 28:23 29:17 40:19 42:3,25 43:20 58:13 58:15,16 59:8 62:23 62:24 73:22 75:13 76:5 83:13 85:2,8 87:4 88:4,14,20 90:12,21 101:4 116:5 116:7,11 136:13 139:12 frames 3 8:4 Franklin 4:5 Freightline 114:25 Freightliner 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69:22,23 70:17 71:7 Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 jHi aC 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 72:2 76:20 78:6 96:14,19,22 97:15 102:19 117:2 122:16 : 125:8,24 looked 25:7,8,11 26:9 96:24 97:2 137:16 looking 26:12 29:23 30:10 53:11 64:11 83:5 88:23 122:18 125:17 137:25 lot 102:12 Louisville 15:24 lower 63:11 146:23 lunch 71:3 92:15 lung 122:23 124:4,5,10 126:21 133:23 L-6601-99 1:10 _________ M_________ M 7:2 94:4 Mack 23:21 45:9 115:2 149:15 mailing 129:22 maintain 108:2,5 maintenance 25:11 26:18 28:9,17 33:11 34:20 35:14 56:9 117:11,19 119:15 121:8,9 major 23:16,17,18 65:18 86:8,18 88:18 88:19,21,23,23 90:7 104:17 105:5,14,19 116:10,14 139:19 140:22 majority 142:3 making 143:16 150:22 managed 22:11 management 14:9 manager 11:10,22 14:13 16:16,19 17:19 17:23 18:2,3,5,8,11 18:12,14,17 19:5,10 19:19 20:4,9 21:8 22:20 24:3 27:13,14 27:18,19,25 28:2,23 29:4 30:2 33:9 38:7 38:11,14,19,23,24 39:6,10,23 40:14,20 41:14,15,16 42:15,16 43:5,6,8,13,14 52:8 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116:9 119:19 ------------------ B Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Page 10 refrigeration 16:7 142:6,17,24 146:23 regard 90:8 reserve 35:24 regarding 27:7,9 29:2 reserved 6:8 30:12 31:19 32:25 reserves 15:13 37:21 53:20 56:13 resolve 71:22 132:17 62:11,22 64:24 66:25 respect 31:19 37:25 68:20 75:11 77:6,15 39:20 43:6 45:3,14 94:13 104:5 121:17 46:12,14 60:18 70:15 127:21 135:14,20 79:19 100:10,20 regards 141:10 102:5 113:14,15 regional 51:8,21 72:14 140:6 81:11 83:12 respective 6:4 regulated 79:8 respond 92:21 regulation 119:16 responded 120:13 regulations 68:7 response 7:21 55:5 142:14 101:11 102:2 116:16 related 33:6 44:14 responses 34:3,13,16 146:7 152:9 156:14 59:19 120:12 136:20 relating 7:23 responsibilities 11:23 relationship 108:6 22:8 43:5 46:16 relationships 108:3 49:13 56:2,3 84:2 release 114:18 115:9 134:20 115:23 responsibility 22:17 relying 30:17 33:5,10,16 46:17,19 remain 17:22 18:16 51:21 89:17,19 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Rockewell's 107:19 142:12 Rockwell 12:11,13,17 requirements 47:2 L :W;PSfcii3feUWri 12:20,24 17:8,10,14 Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 17:17 19:18 20:8,19 20:20 21:16 24:5 25:19 26:3,5,17,21 27:8,20 28:6,9 29:2 29:10 31:15 32:8,12 32:16,24 33:19,19 34:7 37:4,7,16,25 38:4,6 39:2,10,19 40:2,5,7,8,13,23 41:14,18,21,25 42:5 42:12,23 43:1444:7 44:9,10,13,15,17,20 44:21,25 45:18 46:7 46:12,16,17,24 47:5 47:23 48:7,9,13,18 49:3,3,13 50:5,21,22 50:23 51:4 52:7,20 54:12,24,25 55:12 57:2,9 58:8,25 59:9,9 59:23 60:5,11,19,24 61:8,9 62:21 63:6,7,9 64:21 66:8,8 68:5 72:5,24,25 73:4,18 75:5,20 76:8,18 77:6 77:12 78:15 79:3,12 80:8 81:11,15 82:9 82:16 83:8 84:24 85:3,6,11 87:7,16,16 87:18,21 88:2,7,10 88:11,13,16,23,24 89:13 90:6,14 91:5,6 91:18 94:9,9,14,18 97:6,18 98:17,24 99:7,10,21 100:24 101:22,23,24,25 102:23 103:19,24 104:13,17,20,22 105:5,5,14,19,21 106:5,12,15,17,21 107:2,9,25 108:10,20 109:3,9,10,14,20 110:8,14,25 111:2,7 112:3,3,4 113:2,10 113:18,23 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i three 11:4,9 18:9,18 _..._.. ....I Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, N3 07095 3age 12 19:13 38:12,15 42:22 72:7 92:8 106:16 107:9 116:5,6 147:11 147:14 148:8 152:4 time 6:8 7:22 9:13 11:19 13:10 17:20 18:10 20:15 21:7,10 22:3 23:20 24:2,5 26:20 27:19,2428:7 28:23 29:17,20,25 30:12,25 31:25 37:3 37:7,17 38:4 39:6,23 40:4,7,18 41:23 42:3 42:13,14,25 43:13,20 47:4 49:2,12,18 51:16 54:25 55:18,21 56:10 58:13,15,16 59:5,8,13,16 60:3,16 60:17 62:12,16,23,24 63:21,23 64:22 65:4 66:14 67:15 68:4,14 68:24 69:2,3,9,12 73:22 75:8,13,24 76:5,8 80:6,7 81:14 81:18,25 82:8 83:13 84:21 85:2,8,13 86:5 86:6,7,16 87:4,8 88:4 88:14,20 89:3,18 90:12,21 91:11,15,23 92:2,11 94:3,8,15,16 94:18 101:2,4,22 105:4,21 107:3 108:9 109:23 113:20 114:5 116:4,7,11,15 118:6 118:13,19 119:21,25 120:7,24 121:17,22 129:16,16 135:10,18 136:13 139:12,16 140:10,14 142:23 143:14145:2 146:18 147:2 148:9,21 149:7 149:23 151:3 152:10 152:16,22,23 153:14 153:22 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Winchester 44:5 53:13 ! 53:14 Wisconsin 43:25 withdrawn 92:20 I witness 3:12 5:4 7:3 35:25 36:8,17,20 70:9 71:13 96:14,16 156:9,13,18 wondering 131:19 Woodbridge 1:22,22 ___________________ _ | Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 732-283-5737 Woodbridge, NJ 07095 word 120:20 worded 120:9 fording 120:14 words 22:9 25:18 30:21 46:21 48:6 57:9 66:24 67:5 72:22 74:8 95:5 101:8 115:9 118:10 130:23 135:17 136:21 138:13 142:22 work 10:14 11:2 12:19 12:23 31:22 46:12,24 72:17,18 79:8 81:10 91:5,5 worked 10:25 11:15 13:10 16:20 21:10 26:20 31:25 37:3,5,7 41:2 49:3,12 51:9,24 59:13 121:17 152:10 152:12,16 workers 124:11 working 10:23 11:6,12 12:8,16 14:6 17:11 22:20 31:15,17 32:7 32:8 33:19 36:24 37:4,10 40:5,8 44:7 44:25 73:4,18,22 80:7 82:8 108:2 123:5 143:15 150:16 150:17,18 works 153:7 world's 99:11 worry 70:13 wouldn't 114:11 writer 31:5 written 25:3 28:10 45:22 99:17 wrong 45:14 61:7 wrote 78:20 X x 1:4,13 5:3,6 109:11 109:12 113:5,6 Y Y 113:6 year 95:15 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139:12 198549:25 52:6 95:17 Brody Deposition Services, Inc. 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 117:16 120:5,6,7 198674:6,10 75:7 77:13,16,19 78:5 81:10 82:13,15 125:5 125:20 136:15,22 138:24,24 1987 19:15 72:6 106:7 198819:16 28:4 29:17 33:13,14,18 34:8 38:21,22 116:5 126:17 139:12 152:25 1990 80:13,14 1991115:15,16,22 130:5,8 199244:25 134:18 1993 20:6 28:4 29:18 32:22 38:24 199539:4 199628:15 199711:14 12:7,22,24 13:17 20:14,16,18 37:5 39:2 84:15 1998 33:8,20 84:16 87:8 88:15,20,25 90:5,13 116:7,12 127:8 128:14 2 2 5:10 69:18,21 71:8 137:25 138:10,22 139:6 2nd3:19 2:38 153:22 20 1:18 2:6 7:16,18 69:10 124:14 200010:4 11:15 37:8,9 39:7 85:8 114:4 2000's 81:23 2007 1:18 2:6 156:19 220 1:22 23B4:16 283-5737 1:23 3 3 5:11 76:14,18 77:3 137:24 138:2,3 3rd 78:5 3/91 130:6 3714:5 4 4 5:12 77:23,24 78:4 44113 3:20 5 5 5:13 96:4,5 5th 156:19 50 4:22 102:22 500,00095:19 515:9 6 6 5:5,14102:14,15,19 103:15 6-83 134:18 60 102:22 61 96:12 62 96:12 68 5:10 7 75:15 116:20,21,24 73 40:21 732 1:23 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