Document g2rjdGB1J23Rp91RbvpL8vdKJ

Brandon Reporting Service * 1 APPEARANCES: 2 For the Plaintiff: 3 BRADLEY & MERRELL c/o JONES, JONES, CLOSE & BROWN, CHARTERED 4 700 Bank of America Plaza 300 South Fourth Street 5 Las Vegas, Nevada 89101-6026 By: DAVID E. SCHALK, ESQ. 6 For the Defendant General Electric: 7 WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY 8 725 Twelfth Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 9 By: ROBERT J. SHAUGHNESSY, ESQ. 10 For the Defendant Westinghouse : 11 WESTINGHOUSE ELECTRIC CORPORATION 11 Stanwix Street 12 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222 By: FRANCES L. GARRY, ESQ. 13 For the Defendant Monsanto Company: 14 KIRKLAND & ELLIS 15 1999 Broadway - Suite 4000 Denver, Colorado 80202 16 ** By: BLAKE RHODES, ESQ. 17 18 ** Present by telephone. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 Brandon Reporting Service I # fr 1 S T I P U L A T IONS 3 2 3 4 It is stipulated by counsel for the parties 5 that the deposition may be signed before any Notary 6 Public. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Brandon Reporting Service 4 * 1 (The deposition commenced at 9:05 a.m.) 2 3 RICHARD J. BIERNACKI, Deponent, of 129 4 Birch Grove Drive, Pittsfield, Massachusetts 5 01201, being first duly sworn, was examined, 6 and testified on his oath as follows: 7 8 DIRECT EXAMINATION 9 10 BY MR. SCHALK: 11 Q Mr. Biernacki, would you state your full name 12 for the record. 13 A Richard Joseph Biernacki. 14 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I just want to make a 15 statement for the record. Mr. Biernacki is tendered 16 here as the corporate designee on the subject of 17 document retention policies at General Electric as they 18 relate to documents relating to PCBs. 19 I know that this is not a 30(b)(6) 20 deposition that Nevada Power has noticed, it's one that 21 we've proffered in lieu of Mansfield Neal's deposition. 22 And I know, David, that Nevada Power reserves the right 23 to revisit the issue of whether they want to take Mr. 24 Neal's deposition, but that's an issue that we can discuss after Mr. Biernacki has testified. Brandon Reporting Service cCri^/> /uj/c-fu-ftO v ^ tu 5/7n.lsu^ A ^ J\JLj?-^jZs*jjCt&kMi */o C_je_^"fo (A 5 Jr 1 MR. SCHALK: Okay. So this is one that 2 isn't noticed at all. I just want to see what notices 3 we have, see what we're doing here. 4 Okay. We need to speak with someone 5 about all warnings and representations to everybody. 6 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Right. That's Mr. 7 Biernacki's other hat today. 8 MR. SCHALK: Okay. 9 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: And then tomorrow we 10 have the 30(b)(6) on hazards, which will be Dr. Stephen 11 Hamilton, and then Dr. John Brown will be appearing in 12 his personal capacity. 13 MR. SCHALK: So Dr. Hamilton and Brown 14 will both be here tomorrow? 15 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Right. 16 MR. SCHALK: Since this is a 30(b)(6) 17 deposition, let's get straight exactly what we're asking 18 Mr. Biernacki to testify about. Did you just state for 19 the record what your understanding is? 20 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Right. The document 21 retention policies at General Electric, as they relate 22 to retention of documents concerning PCBs. 23 MR. SCHALK: What about just the overall 24 policies? I understand that there is a formal policy at 25 General Electric for the retention and destruction of Brandon Reporting Service t various types of documents. 6 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Mr. Biernacki is prepared to address that, if the question is asked. i MR. SCHALK: Okay. I BY MR. SCHALK: ! Q Let's just take care of a few preliminaries here. Mr. Biernacki, where do you live? A 129 Birch Grove Drive, in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. l Q Okay. Now, if during this deposition you l don't understand a question, be sure to ask me, let me l know. You can take a break when you feel like it. This l is a formal court proceeding and you are under oath, but l it's a lot less formal than trial. You may consult with l your attorney if you want to. l Have you ever been deposed before? l A Yes, I have. l Q How many times? l A Probably half a dozen. 2 Q What kind of cases were those? 2 A They were product liability cases. 2 Q Were you a 30(b)(6) witness in those 2 depositions? 2 A I'm not sure what 30(b)(6) means. 2 Q Okay. That's when you speak for the Brandon Reporting Service 7 1 corporation. But anyway, if you don't know, that means 2 we don't need to go into that. 3 What kind of things did you testify about? 4 A Primarily my function is to coordinate 5 response to discovery in litigation for our large 6 transformer operation. And therefore, I would be -- my 7 deposition would include records, people who I have 8 contacted, that kind of thing. 9 Q Okay. Where did you go to school? 10 A I graduated from North Adams State College, 11 business degree. 12 Q Do you remember when that was? 13 A That was in 1975. 14 Q Okay. And what did you do after that? 15 A Well, I was working for GE at the time. I was 16 taking -- that was all at night. I initially was on the 17 General Electric apprentice drafting program, and 18 completed that, and then following that I was a 19 draftsman for a while, and at the same time started 20 taking evening courses. 21 Q Okay. And what was your position with General 22 Electric while you were taking the business courses? 23 A It was a bit while I was still in drafting, 24 but shortly after I moved to quality assurance. 25 Q What were your duties in quality assurance? Brandon Reporting Service 8 1 A The title was process control specialist. My 2 area of responsibility was what we call finishing and 3 shipping operation, which meant taking a transformer 4 from final test through the shipment operation. 5 Q So were you involved in testing the fluids 6 that were put in the transformers? 7 A No, I was not. 8 Q Okay. Well, you obviously have been climbing 9 the corporate ladder of success. What was your next 10 position? 11 A Well, in 1971, I started working for a 12 customer service operation, which at that time was a 13 marketing responsibility. And the title of that job was 14 customer service administration specialist. 15 Q What years did you work in that capacity? 16 A From 1971 to 1977. 17 Q So then you were doing that while you were 18 working on your business degree? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q Okay. And how did your job change in 1977? 21 A At that time, my title became manager of 22 claims administration, and essentially the 23 responsibility turned more towards our preparation for 24 litigation. 25 Q Is that your positionright now? Brandon Reporting Service 9 1 A Yes, it is. 2 Q So that has been your position since '78 until 3 the present? 4 A Yes. 5 Q You're here to testify about your corporation 6 in two separate capacities today, and I want to ask you 7 about your capacity as the spokesman on document 8 retention policies. And my question is: How did you 9 prepare to testify on document retention? 10 A I reviewed some of my own files. Also, met 11 with counsel to review some policies. 12 Q Did you speak with anybody else? 13 A I talked with mydivisioncounsel, also. 14 Q Maybe another attorney. Did you speak with 15 non-attorneys? 16 A I didn't -- I did. I talked on the phone with 17 a nurse in the health area over in Hudson Falls, our 18 capacitor department. 19 Q Did you tell her that you were going to be 20 deposed today? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Or about this deposition? You might not have 23 known the date. 24 And what did you discuss with her? 25 A I was a bit more unfamiliar with the capacitor Brandon Reporting Service 10 a 1 in Hudson Falls, so I asked, and her name was given to 2 me by Mansfield Neal, our division counsel. 3 Q Do you recall her name? 4 A I can't recall it right now. 5 Q That's fine. And where is shelocated? 6 A In Hudson Falls. 7 Q Okay. Now, continue telling me what you 8 discussed with the nurse in Hudson Falls. 9 A Just a bit about the retention of their 10 records, particularly with the PCB-type records. 11 Q And what did she tell you? 12 A She told me that she had records that went 13 back to 1975, and there had been sort of a stop hold at 14 some point relative to these records put on by a 15 division counsel. What this did really was suspended 16 the normal policy on retention of records. 17 Q And that deviation from the policy, if I 18 understand you, and tell me if I'm correct, was to 19 destroy nothing? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q And is that, in fact,whathappened atHudson 22 Falls since 1975? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Do you know that through any meansother than 25 your discussion with the nurse? Brandon Reporting Service d? * 1 A In Hudson Falls you mean? 11 2 Q Yes. 3 A Also Mr. Neal told me about the same thing. 4 Q Did he say that was a policy initiated by him? 5 A No, he didn't. 6 Q Do you know who made the decision to deviate o 7 from the normal policy with respect to PCBs? 8 A It would have been a division counsel probably 9 at that point, but I don't know who that was at that 10 time. 11 Q Would that besomething that thedivision 12 counsel would have discussed with an administrator in 13 the organization? 14 A I would say that would be likely. 15 Q I'm going to ask you a few questions about how 16 General Electric is organized. I think that will help 17 things go more smoothly. 18 Who is the chief executive officer? 19 A John Welch. 20 , Q Now, who would you say are the people directly 21 under him? 22 A There are variousorganizations. I'm pretty 23 much familiar with our own, but not the others. 24 Q Okay. How does your organization go up to the 25 top levels of administration in GE? Brandon Reporting Service 12 O 1 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Just to clarify, you 2 mean today? I mean, with the recognition this has 3 changed very possibly over the period at issue in this 4 case, but you just want him to comment on today? 5 MR. SCHALK: Yes. I recognize that. 6 BY MR. SCHALK: 7 Q And right now my question is: What's the 8 chain of command today? 9 A Okay. Let's start by, reporting to Welch 10 would have been an individual called David 11 Geneva-Watling, and his operation is industrial power 12 systems. 13 Q Okay. 14 A Now, there are various other divisions 15 reporting to Mr. Watling, but the one I work for is 16 power delivery and control. 17 Q Do you know what the other ones are that 18 report to David Watling? 19 A They would be dealing with power generation 20 and field service, et cetera. But I don't know all the 21 names. 22 Q Okay. Do you know about how many there are? 23 A Probably about a dozen. 24 Q Okay. All right. Now, tell me about the line 25 leading to you. Brandon Reporting Service 13 1 A Okay. Reporting to Mr. Watling would be our 2 power delivery and control division, and that would be 3 headed up by Jack Lavin, L-a-v-i-n. 4 Q ' Okay. 5 A And next step would be medium transformer 6 department. 7 Q Okay. 8 A And the manager there is Tom Curley, 9 C-u-r-l-e-y. 10 Q Got it. 11 A And then we get to the large transformer 12 support operation, which I work for, and I report to a John Perry. Q Now, is large transformer support under the medium transformer division? A Yes. That's arecent change. Q Does thatstrike you as being odd? A' Well, we went out of the large transformer business back in '86, and what was left in Pittsfield was several people to handle various items as they come up on equipment that's been shipped. Q Who's the head of large transformer? A Oh, support operation. Right now it's John Perry, P-e-r-r-y. Q And who reports to John Perry? Brandon Reporting Service 14 S 1 A I do. And another individual in the office is 2 Ned Alibozek and a Ray Tuggey. 3 Q Do you know how to spell those names? 4 A Yes. Alibozek is A-l-i-b-o-z-e-k. 5 Q Okay. 6 A Tuggey, I believe it's T-u-g-g-e-y. 7 Q What's Mr. Alibozek's responsibility? 8 A He assists Mr. Perry on some of the questions 9 that come up on fuel problems, and also has 10 responsibility for our file, print file, drawing file 11 type of thing in Pittsfield. 12 Q What kind of file does he keep in Pittsfield? 13 A Well, the drawings and microfilm of the 14 products that were built in Pittsfield. 15 Q And would those be large transformers? 16 A It would be some large and other equipment, 17 also. Parts for transformers. 18 Q Okay. Why did GE get out of the large 19 transformer business? 20 A As I understand it, it was market conditions. 21 Q Who's got the lion's share of the market now? 22 A I don't know. 23 Q Is Westinghouse still involved in that? 24 A Westinghouse, I understand, sold the business 25 to Asea Brown Boviere. Brandon Reporting Service 15 4 1 Q Now, you've mentioned Pittsfield. Did you 2 call that the Pittsfield division or -3 A Currently what we work in is large support, 4 transformer support operation. 5 Q What I'm trying to understand is how many 6 other operations you have that would be maybe on the 7 same level as the Pittsfield operation around the United 8 States, or maybe even in foreign countries. 9 A Well, Pittsfield, of course, is not building 10 transformers at this point, so the people in Pittsfield 11 are just a few. We also have transformer plants in 12 Rome, Georgia, which would be medium transformers; in 13 Hickory, North Carolina, which is distribution 14 transformer; and Shreveport, which I believe reports to 15 Hickory, but builds some products there. 16 Q In preparing for this deposition, did you speak with people in Rome, Hickory or Shreveport? A No. Q How did you go about finding out the document retention and destruction policies in Rome? A I was given a copy to review and look at. Q A copy of what? A Of the operating instruction orretention policy. Q Did you bring that with you? Brandon Reporting Service J ] A No, I did not. 16 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I'll just state for the record it's been produced. That was among the documents A that we sent you on Monday. c MR. SCHALK: I'm going to want to know every document that Mr. Biernacki reviewed in preparing for this deposition, and if they have already been i produced, I wonder if there is any way you can give me C your stamp numbers, your -- some information that would 1( help me to identify them. 1 : MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I don't think that's 1: really our obligation. I mean, our obligation at best 1: is to produce to you the documents that the witness has l- reviewed. If you wish to ask him questions about those 1! documents, you're free to do so. li MR. SCHALK: Yes. I just suggested that 1 to save time. Otherwise, I can write down a description 1 of every document. 1 BY MR. SCHALK: 2 Q How many documents did you review preparing 2 for this? 2 A Well, the policies, I recall looking at four. 2 Q And is it your understanding that those were 2 produced to Nevada Power on Monday? 2 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I mean, I object. The Brandon Reporting Service 4 1 witness has not suggested he's involved in document 17 2 production. I mean, I can represent to you, as I 3 represented to you on the phone on Monday, I believe, 4 that those were on the way, and I think Bradley & 5 Merrell can confirm if they looked at the documents that 6 they were sent and received. 7 MR. SCHALK: Okay. Were all the other 8 documents that Mr. Biernacki reviewed sent on Monday? 9 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Yes. A smaller number 10 were sent on Tuesday. 11 MR. SCHALK: Okay. 12 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: But everything he's 13 reviewed has been produced. 14 MR. SCHALK: Were they identified in the 15 production as the documents that Mr. Biernacki reviewed? 16 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: No, they weren't. They 17 were responsive to discovery requests, and that's why we 18 produced them. 19 BY MR. SCHALK: 20 Q Well, we can begin with the four policy 21 documents. 22 Mr. Biernacki, if you could pick one and tell 23 me what it says? 24 A Well, I'll pick the one that was used in Pittsfield. I'm a bit more familiar with that one. Brandon Reporting Service 18 1 It's an operating instruction on document retention, and 2 was put together by our finance section as a guide for 3 the balance of the department to use. And it's a fairly 4 lengthy document which itemizes various documents, 5 primarily financial, but also others and gives the years 6 of retention. 7 Q How long are financial records retained? 8 A It does vary depending on the type of record. 9 Q Which kind are kept the longest? 10 A I don't know, but I would believe that we do 11 at taxes. 12 Q Would you describe for me all parts of the 13 Pittsfield operating instruction document retention 14 destruction policy that would apply to PCBs, 15 polychlorinated biphenyls, or chlorinated dibenzofurans, 16 or dioxins? And that three-part question is confusing. 17 We could do each part separately. In fact, why don't we 18 do it that way. 19 Maybe we can do it all together if you tell me 20 is there anything in that policy that would distinguish 21 -- is there anything that would apply to dibenzofurans but not PCBs? A I don't recall seeing anything like that. Q You don't recall seeing the words polychlorinated dibenzofurans? Brandon Reporting Service 19 1 A Right. 2 Q Or PCDFs ? 3 A Right. I don't recall that. 4 Q Okay. But you have seen PCB? 5 A Yes . 6 Q All right. Well, describe for me in detail -7 A Not on that policy, I'm sorry, just in 8 general. Not on that policy. 9 Q Well, even though it doesn't mention PCBs, 10 there is undoubtedly sections that would apply to PCBs; 11 is that correct? 12 A There could, over the years. I'll give one 13 example. Someone's letter book. 14 Q What's a letter book? 15 A This would be an individual, probably 16 personnel , have their own copies of letters they issue, 17 and I believe in that case it was like a two-year 18 retention policy. 19 Q These are letters that are kept in the 20 personnel file? 21 A No, individuals. Individual personnel would 22 have their own letter books. That's quite common. And 23 that would be throughout the department, not just the 24 finance. 25 Q You describe it as a book. Is it actually Brandon Reporting Service A bound up into a book? 20 A I suppose some people have a folder. Depends how many letters they write. I used to have a book, I L recall. IQ All right. Would that be the only keep of the ( letter, or is there a central location for correspondence? ! MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I object. I mean, I you're just asking in general about any piece of 1 correspondence, or about specific categories of 1 correspondence? 1 MR. SCHALK: Well, I'm asking about 1 correspondence at Pittsfield, and I'm asking about all 1 correspondence. And I understand that the individuals 1 who generated and receive correspondence keep their own 1 correspondence book or file. 1 BY MR. SCHALK: 1 Q And my question regarding all of that is: Is 1 there a place where copies or the originals are kept, 2 other than in the personal books of the individuals? 2 A I believe the originator would have the 2 original copy, and copies would be sent out to whoever 2 -- whatever the distribution list said. 2 Q Would it go anywhere other than to the people 2 on the distribution list? Brandon Reporting Service 21 1 1 A Some of the letters may have gone into a 2 particular booklet, like a requisition file. Not one 3 individual but a -- just to keep in one file for the 4 particular production order we're talking about. Not in 5 all cases, but it depends on what the letter is all 6 about. 7 Q Could there be a case where a letter referring 8 to PCBs would go into that central location like that? 9 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Objection. Calls for 10 speculation. You can answer, Mr. Biernacki. 11 A I'm not sure what you mean by central location 12 again. There's not one central location. The 13 particular folder. Just one folder. 14 BY MR. SCHALK: 15 Q What kind of folders are you talking about? I 16 need to understand that more clearly. 17 A One example would be a requisition folder for 18 a particular job order where all documents would go in 19 that would apply to the marketing and engineering 20 portion of it. 21 Q And is there a requisition folder like that at 22 Pittsfield? 23 A There is more than one folder. Each job would 24 have its own folder. 25 Q And what are the categories of jobs that would Brandon Reporting Service 4 1 have their own folders? 22 2 A Well, Pittsfield we made large transformers 3 primarily, and they're individual orders, so it would be 4 an individual folder for the particular order. It may 5 be more than one transformer on the order, but in one 6 folder would be called a requisition, and it would be 7 one folder for each requisition. 8 Q Who maintains the large transformer 9 requisition folder? 10 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: You mean now? 11 BY MR. SCHALK: 12 Q Yes. Just right now. 13 A As I recall, they are in a file. I believe 14 the overall responsibility for it would come under Mr. 15 Perry. 16 Q Did you speak with Mr. Perry about the large 17 transformer requisition folder? 18 A No. 19 Q How long are documents retained in that? 20 A I don't know. 21 Q What sorts of documents go into that folder? 22 A There would be letters from -- back and forth 23 from customers to our salespeople in the districts. 24 There would be instructions to our -- probably our 25 factory, engineering notices, probably references to Brandon Reporting Service 1 1 instruction books, things of that nature. 23 2 Q Now, the document retention destruction policy 3 for Pittsfield is called the Pittsfield operating 4 instruction; is that correct or -- 5 A I believe it's called an operating 6 instruction. 7 Q Do you know if it has a number designation? 8 A I believe Pittsfield is 20.7. 9 Q Would it be correct to call that policy 20.7? 10 A Yes. Q Is there any special provision in policy 20.7 for the preservation of records relating to polychlorinated biphenyls, or as I call it, PCBs? A Not in that particular document. We did have, when we moved the business to -- or sold the business to Westinghouse, around that time, there was a letter put out by division counsel not to destroy any PCB documents. Q When was the large transformer business sold to Westinghouse? A It was in 1986, I believe. Q Were you involved in the negotiations for that sale at all? MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I object. That's way beyond the scope of the subject matter of this Brandon Reporting Service t 1 deposition. 24 2 Mr. Biernacki, you can answer if you can. 3 A No, I was not. 4 BY MR. SCHALK: 5 Q Did the instruction not to destroy PCB-related 6 documents originate at Westinghouse? 7 A No. 8 Q Do you know who was responsible for 9 formulating that policy with respect to PCBs? 10 A It was Mansfield Neal, our division counsel. 11 Q Do you know why he wanted to turn all PCB- 12 related documents over to Westinghouse? 13 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Objection. I don't 14 think that's what's been said at all. You can go ahead 15 and answer, Mr. Biernacki. 16 A No. 17 BY MR. SCHALK: 18 Q I didn't mean to mischaracterize your 19 testimony. As I understood it, Westinghouse bought the 20 business, and at that time, Mr. Neal said to make sure 21 not to destroy any PCB-related documents; is that your 22 testimony? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Okay. My next question, then, is: Do you 25 know why Manny Neal gave that instruction? Brandon Reporting Service 25 i 1 A Yes. At the time, of course we were building 2 transformers in Pittsfield since the turn of the 3 century, so there were many documents in Pittsfield. 4 And with the transfer of the business, sale of the 5 business, there would be people leaving, changing jobs, 6 et cetera, and I believe Mr. Neal wanted to just put a 7 hold on everything at that point relative to PCBs. 8 Q Was a search of the documents made to make 9 sure that there weren't any trade secrets regarding 10 capacitors? 11 A I don't know. 12 Q Was there any searches to make sure that no 13 trade secrets were given over to Westinghouse? 14 A I don't know. 15 Q Was an inventory taken of the documents prior 16 to the sale? In other words, were lists made of 17 documents in various categories? 18 A There were -- theagreement categorized 19 various documents, I understand, although I was not 20 involved in that, but there were categories of documents 21 that did go to Westinghouse, and we maintained copies in Pittsfield, if they got the original. Q Are you referring only tocorrespondence between GE and Westinghouse? A No. We essentially sold the technology to Brandon Reporting Service 26 Westinghouse, so Westinghouse got some documents such as engineering folders, what we call calculations folders, in some cases they got drawings, that kind of thing. It L was all set up in the agreement. c Q Was GE ahead of Westinghouse in large ( transformer technology? MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I object as beyond the I scope. You can try to answer, Mr. Biernacki. ( A I don't know. II BY MR. SCHALK: 1 Q Do you know if documents relating to the 1 : negotiations between General Electric and Westinghouse l are still maintained? l- A I believe so. 1! Q Over what period of time did those 1 negotiations take place? 1 A I don't know. 1 Q Do you know when an agreement in principal was 1 reached? 2 A No, I do not. 2 Q Do you know whether or not there was a period 2 of time, prior to 1986, during which General Electric 2 and Westinghouse cooperated in sharing technology? 2 A I don't know. 2 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I belatedly object as Brandon Reporting Service d 1 beyond the scope. 27 2 BY MR. SCHALK: 3 Q Are there any other policies at Pittsfield 4 other than policy 20.7 that would apply to PCBs? 5 A I don't know of any. 6 Q Is there an overall corporate policy that 7 applies to PCB-related documents at Pittsfield? 8 A I don't know. 9 Q Do you have files at Pittsfield relating to 10 hazards that are associated or allegedly associated with 11 PCBs? 12 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Object to the vagueness 13 of "hazards." You can try and answer that, Mr. 14 Biernacki. 15 A Well, there are various files in Pittsfield 16 covering a long period of time, and any environmental 17 issue is involved in that. 18 BY MR. SCHALK: 19 Q Would environmental issues include possible 20 adverse health effects on individual humans? 21 A I would say published literature along those 22 lines would be filed. 23 Q Would adverse health effects and effects on 24 the general ecology of the earth be filed together, or 25 would there be two separate files maintained? Brandon Reporting Service 28 A I believe those type issues would be handled by our environmental and facilities operation in Pitts field. i Q It's environmental and facilities? I A And facilities. I Q Let's take a short break. (Recess: 9:50 to 9:55 a.m.) 1 BY MR. SCHALK: 1 Q Mr. Biernacki, you were telling me about files 1 pertaining to environmental and health effects of PCBs, 1 and I assume related compounds such as dibenzofurans? 1 A I don't know that. 1 Q But you do know they pertain to PCBs? 1 A Yes. 1 Q How are those files broken down? 1 A In the environmental andfacilities operation, 1 they actually have a little office or a library type. 2 I'm not so sure how they broke them down. 2 Q Have you ever had occasion to look at those 2 files? 2 A Yes. 2 Q Did you look at those files in preparation for 2 today's deposition? Brandon Reporting Service 29 1 A No. 2 Q Do you have occasion to look at those files 3 while you're performing your responsibilities? 4 A Yes. 5 Q In what use do you make of those files? 6 A It would depend on the request -- the 7 discovery request. 8 Q Does it have oldarticles, old published 9 medical articles and things like that? 10 A We have a lot of published material. I don't 11 know how old they are. 12 Q Is there a librarian responsiblefor that 13 collection? 14 A I'm not sure if there is a librarian or not. 15 There are several people in that office, but -16 Q Would one of Mr. Perry's assistants be in 17 charge of it? 18 A No. The environmental and facilities 19 operation is really separate from our large transformer 20 support operation. 21 Q Okay. Who's responsible for it? 22 A Ron Desgroseiliers.I believe it's spelled 23 D-e-s-g-r-o-s-e-i-l-i-e-r-s. 24 Q Are any medical files on individual GE 25 employees maintained in Pittsfield? Brandon Reporting Service & 1 A I believe they are. 30 2 Q Is there a nurse at that facility? 3 A I'm sure there is. I believe they have been 4 moved over to our plastics -- GE plastics department in 5 Pittsfield. 6 Q Is a medical doctor employed in Pittsfield? 7 A I believe so. 8 Q I take it you don't know his name? 9 A I do not. 10 Q So far you've mentioned large transformers and 11 plastics in Pittsfield, and also environmental and 12 facilities operation? 13 A That's right. 14 Q Are there anyoperations or divisions in 15 Pittsfield other than those three? 16 A No. 17 Q Is there one person in Pittsfield who's over 18 all three? 19 A I don't believe so. 20 Q How many buildings are in Pittsfield? I mean, 21 you know, how many buildings owned by General Electric? A I don't know. Q Are all the General Electric buildings in one area, or do you have to drive across town to get from one to the other? Brandon Reporting Service 31 D 1 A You have to drive a distance of perhaps a mile 2 or two. 3 Q To get from the large transformers to 4 plastics? 5 A Yes. 6 Q How about to get to environmental and 7 facilities? 8 A Environmental area is located fairly close to 9 the large transformer office. 10 Q If you wanted to go there, would you walk or 11 drive? 12 A To the environmental? 13 Q Yes. 14 A You just walk. It's the next building over. 15 Q Are the basements connected? 16 A What basements? 17 Q Okay. Never mind. That's also outside the 18 scope of this deposition. 19 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I was indulging you. 20 BY MR. SCHALK: 21 Q How is policy 20.7 broken down into 22 categories? 23 A As I recall, it describes various documents, 24 financial-type documents, and it would commonly occur 25 that an individual section would take that and make Brandon Reporting Service @0 1 their own individual policy for a particular area. 32 2 Q Do you recall how many pages there are in 3 policy 20.7? 4 A No, I don't. 5 Q Is it more than 10? 6 A I believe so. 7 Q Does it specifically address the three -- I'm 8 going to call them divisions in Pittsfield -- would you 9 please tell me the right way to -- 10 A Division is not the word for large transformer 11 or environmental. They would be, I would say. 12 operations. 13 Q Operations. Okay. Is plastics an operation? 14 A I'm sorry? 15 Q Would you call plastics an operation? 16 A No. 17 Q What would you call that? 18 A I'm not sure what the current terminology is. 19 It's the world headquarters for plastics, I can tell you 20 that. 21 Q Does policy 20.7 specifically address 22 plastics, large transformers, or environmental and 23 facilities? 24 A No. It would -- as far as I recall, it was 25 large transformer operating policy. Brandon Reporting Service GD 1 Q So it does not address plastics and 33 2 environmental and facilities? 3 A The environmental and facilities at one time 4 was, I believe, part of transformer. I'm not so sure 5 who they report to right now. They may have their own 6 policy. 7 Q It's my understanding that you reviewed four 8 policies in preparation for today's deposition; is that 9 correct? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q Would one of those four policies cover 12 environmental and facilities? 13 A I'm not sure if they adhered to the 14 transformer policy or not, currently. 15 Q If they don't, are they outside of those four 16 policies? 17 A Yes. I would say they would be outside 18 somehow. 19 Q Okay. If there is a written policy pertaining 20 to environmental facilities, assuming that the large 21 transformer policy does not apply, who would have that 22 policy? 23 A I'd say overall responsibility is Mr. 24 Desgroseiliers. 25 MR. SCHALK: Mr. Shaughnessy, would you Brandon Reporting Service <3D 1 want to provide another 30(b)(6) witness to answer 34 2 questions about policies in environmental and 3 facilities, or could you prepare Mr. Biernacki to maybe 4 continue his deposition later this afternoon? 5 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: We'll take that under 6 advisement. 7 MR. SCHALK: Okay. 8 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I mean, I'm not saying 9 we will, or that we believe Mr. Biernacki is inadequate, 10 but we simply can revisit the issue. 11 BY MR. SCHALK: 12 Q Let's go on to one of the other four policies 13 that you reviewed. Can you tell me about another one, 14 please. 15 A Actually, they were all quite similar. All 16 put out by a finance function. 17 Q Put out by finance function you said? 18 A Finance function inthe operation itself. 19 Q Which operation? 20 A Well, we'll take Rome, that would be the 21 medium transformer. 22 Q So in Rome, Georgia, which produces medium transformers, the finance function is responsible for the document retention and destruction policy? A Yes. Brandon Reporting Service 35 SB 1 Q Well, could you tell me about the Rome policy? 2 A It was similar in nature to the large 3 transformer policy, and it described various documents. 4 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Let's go off the record 5 a second. GO 7 (Off-the-record discussion.) 8 9 BY MR. SCHALK: 10 Q You were telling me about the Rome, Georgia 11 policy. Does it have a number? 12 A I believe it did, but I don't know what it is. 13 Q Okay. In what ways does it differ from the 14 large transformer policy? 15 A I couldn't say exactly how it differed. It 16 was similar in nature, but I don't know of any 17 particular difference. 18 19 (Recess: 10:10 to 10:14 a.m.) 20 21 BY MR. SCHALK: 22 Q Mr. Biernacki, you recall telling me about the 23 policy for Rome, Georgia, and -- 24 MR. SCHALK: Was there a question 25 pending? Brandon Reporting Service  36 1 2 (The last question and answer were read.) 3 4 BY MR. SCHALK: 5 Q Does it address documents other than financial 6 documents? 7 A I believe the policy is a guide for all 8 documents. 9 Q What kind of documents are maintained in Rome, 10 Georgia? 11 A Well, the brunt of them would have been 12 financial records, but the balance would be 13 manufacturing, engineering-type records, production-type 14 records. 15 Q Would there be correspondence with customers 16 there? 17 A I assume there would be, sure. 18 Q Would there be documents similar to those that 19 are maintained in Pittsfield under environmental and 20 facilities? 21 A I believe they would have also an 22 environmental group. I don't think it's the size of 23 Pittsfield, but I understand there is a nurse there, 24 also, and an environmental engineer. Q Do you know the environmental engineer's name? Brandon Reporting Service  ] A I believe his last name is Lester. 37 Q Do you know what Mr. Lester's job responsibilities are? L A No, I don't. c Q Do you know if the Rome document retention and ( destruction policy would apply to documents maintained by Mr. Lester? I A I believe in that case it would be. < Q Could you please tell me why you believe that? 11 A Well, because Rome is still manufacturing 1 transformers, so Mr. Lester would report directly to -- 1 : I don't know about directly, but to the general manager, l. eventually, in Rome. i' Q Do you know for a fact whether or not the 1: general manager's document retention and destruction 1 policy identifies Mr. Lester? 1 A No. 1 Q What is thepolicy in Rome, Georgia regarding 1 document retention and destruction? 2 A I don't know thenumber. 2 Q I mean -- 2 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: You mean with respect 2 to PCB-related documents? 2 BY MR. SCHALK: Q No. Just in general, how long does it say the Brandon Reporting Service 38 1 document should be kept, what documents should be kept, 2 and what discarded? 3 A Again, it would vary depending on the type 4 document, just like the large transformer document. 5 6 (Off-the-record.) 7 8 BY MR. SCHALK: 9 Q Mr. Biernacki, you were telling me that the 10 policy for retaining documents in Rome, Georgia varies 11 according to the category of document. And I'd just 12 like you to continue with that. Tell me how it varies. 13 A Well, as I recall, it was, again, similar to 14 the large transformer policy in that it would list a 15 particular document, and over on the right-hand side it 16 would give the retention. 17 Q You mean it would give you -18 A Yes, how many years to hold. 19 Q Are there numerous pages in that policy? 20 A It was similar in size, yes, to the 21 transformer, large transformer. 22 Q Is that because there are so many categories 23 of documents? 24 A There is a large number of documents. I'm not so sure of categories. Brandon Reporting Service 39 % Q In other words, you know, are all the pages or most of them due to the fact that there is just document after document with a time for retention next to it? L A Yes. I Q Is there also some text just describing what the document is? A Yes. I recall reading a sort of a foreword j type of thing about what the policy does. I Q Do you know how long that policy has been in li effect? 1 A No, I don't. As long as I've worked in GE, 1 : though, I think I've seen retention policies of one type l or another. l Q Do they get revised from time to time? l A Yes, they do. l Q All right. So far we've covered two of them. l Could you tell me about a third? l A Distribution transformer department. l Q Where is that located? 2 A It's at Hickory, North Carolina. 2 Q Okay. How did that policy differ from the 2 other two? 2 A Again, they were very similar in nature, and I didn't compare one to the other to determine any differences. Brandon Reporting Service * Q What's a distribution transformer? 40 A Well, I guess the best way to describe it, it's a smaller transformer than medium and large. L Q Are there any other operations or divisions, or whatever, under a similar name in Hickory, North ! Carolina other than distribution transformers? A I don't believe so. I Q What categories of documents are maintained in \ Hickory, North Carolina? ii A Again, there would be production records, i engineering, finance, marketing i Q Is there an environmental operation there? i A I believe there is. i Q I take it you don't know who's in charge of i it? i A I don't. i Q Okay. Do you know for a fact whether or not i the document retention policy for distribution i transformers applies to the environmental operation? 2 A I don't know it for a fact. 2 Q What's the fourth policy that you looked at? 2 A It was from Hudson Falls, our capacitor and 2 protection department Q Capacitor protection department? A Capacitor and protection department, I believe Brandon Reporting Service *> 1 it's called. 41 2 Q Why is it named protection? 3 A They also sell arresters, which are used for 4 protecting transformers. 5 Q Other than capacitors and arresters, is 6 anything else produced at Hudson Falls? 7 A Not that I'm aware of. 8 Q Who did you speak with at Hudson Falls? 9 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I believe he's answered 10 that, but you can say it again. 11 A I still don't recall the name, but it was with 12 the nurse. 13 BY MR. SCHALK: 14 Q Did the policy in Hudson Falls originate with 15 finance? 16 A Yes, it did. 17 Q How do you knowthat? 18 A I recall reading the block that indicated 19 where it was published, who published it. 20 Q I'm handing you what's marked as Plaintiff's 21 Exhibit 1739. And my first question to you is: Do you 22 recognize that document? 23 A Yes, I do. 24 Q When did you first see that document? 25 A I wrote it. Brandon Reporting Service fp 1 Q Oh, okay. And what's the date on it? 42 2 A March 17th, 1987. 3 Q Is that a true and accurate copy of the 4 original? 5 A I believe there is another page. 6 Q Other than that, is there any -- other than 7 that and the exhibit marked on it, is there anything 8 else that's different from the original? 9 A I don't believe so. 10 Q Would you please tell me the circumstances 11 that prompted you to write that memo? 12 A Yes. This was shortly after the exit of the 13 business was announced. It followed up some discussions 14 with our division counsel, Mr. Neal, and it was to get 15 the message out to the various people who were in 16 Pittsfield to maintain the records per the letter. 17 Q When you wrote, "In order to take advantage of 18 the service opportunities and to minimize our liability 19 exposure, a careful consideration must be given now," 20 underlined, "to records disposal and retention." What 21 did you mean? 22 A I meant that since the business was exiting, 23 steps had to be taken by the various people who were 24 there at that time to be sure that the records were kept 25 in accordance with -- well, the letter states it as you Brandon Reporting Service 43 go on. Can I look at that? Q Sure. Yes. Go ahead. In fact, you can read whatever portion you want. i A We had three particular areas that we were I concerned with. One was the agreement with Westinghouse f to provide them various documents, and so they had to be retained, and Mr. Neal had previously written an order j on that. And we had to make copies ourselves. I The second was the area of PCBs. Mr. Neal had 11 written another instruction on that to be sure that all 1 PCB records were kept. l: And finally, if there was any current 1 litigation that was going on, it was my job to mark or 1 to warn -- I would say just advise them to hold those l records in the normal course of doing business. I'm not l sure what's on the next page. l Q Probably your signature. That would have 1 reminded me that you wrote it. That indicates that some 1 records should be destroyed. What kind of records were 2 you recommending GE should destroy? 2 A Anything that would go beyond the scope of the 2 items I listed. 2 Q Now, surely you don't mean anything? In other 2 words, you didn't list financial records there. 2 A Well, I say in my letter that the retention is Brandon Reporting Service 44 1 still to be in accordance with the operating policy 2 G-20.7, which was in effect at the time of the exit 3 announcement. 4 Q Mr. Biernacki, I'm going to hand you the copy 5 with both pages and substitute that for this one. 6 Did you write this memo -- I'm still talking 7 about Plaintiff's Exhibit 1739 -- did you write that on 8 your own initiative, or did someone ask you to write 9 that? 10 A This is a joint decision between Mr. Neal and 11 myself. 12 Q It begins by saying, "Warranty obligations, 13 out of warranty repair and service and products claims/ 14 liability will be facts of life after the last large 15 transformer and bushing is shipped from Pittsfield." 16 Then goes on to say just that "Now is the time to 17 dispose of some records." 18 And my question to you is -19 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Well, in fairness it 20 also says retention. 21 BY MR. SCHALK: 22 Q In fact, the very precise words are, "Careful 23 consideration must be given now to records disposal and 24 retention." And what I'm curious about is just what kind of things should be thrown away, according to yours Brandon Reporting Service  1 and Mr. Neal's instructions? 45 2 A Well, you would have to go back to the 3 operating policy covering retention, as stated right up 4 above. Right above, the number 1, I'll just read it 5 again. Essentially decisions relative to retention of 6 documents ought to be made in operating policy 20.7, 7 which was in effect at the time of the exit 8 announcement. And thus far, the only exceptions were 9 those three exceptions that I gave. 10 Q So your testimony is that the plan was just to 11 make sure that operating policy G-20.7 was thoroughly 12 implemented? 13 A Yes. 14 Q With these exceptions that are listed? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q And it was yours and Mr. Neal's understanding, 17 I take it, that by fully implementing policy G-20.7, you 18 would reduce your claims and liability exposure? 19 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Objection. I don't 20 think that's been said. 21 BY MR. SCHALK: 22 Q Actually, what I'm just trying to understand 23 is this first sentence. It says -- has a reference to 24 "Product claims/liability being a fact of life long 25 after the last large transformer and bushing is shipped Brandon Reporting Service 46 * 1 from Pittsfield. And in order to take advantage of the 2 service opportunities and to minimize our liability 3 exposure, careful consideration must be given now to 4 records disposal and retention." 5 And my understanding now is that your 6 testimony is that in order to minimize liability 7 exposure, you and Mr. Neal were instructing people to 8 fully implement policy G-20.7? 9 A Yes, with the exceptions. 10 Q Of course. Yes. And there are a list of 11 exceptions on this exhibit. 12 Would you please tell me what categories of 13 documents were destroyed which, in your opinion, would 14 help minimize liability exposure? 15 A I don't understand your question. 16 Q Well, I take it from this memo that if policy 17 G-20.7 were to be fully implemented, some documents 18 would be destroyed, and that process would minimize GE's 19 liability exposure. And my question is: What kinds of 20 documents would be destroyed which would have that 21 effect? 22 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I object to counsel's 23 interpretation of Mr. Biernacki's testimony. You can 24 answer without -- with the presumptions delivered by 25 counsel. Brandon Reporting Service 47 4 1 A Sure. I don't interpret it that way either. 2 BY MR. SCHALK: 3 Q Tell me in your own words how you interpret 4 it. I take from this that something would be destroyed 5 that would minimize liability exposure, but if I'm 6 wrong, just explain to me how I'm misunderstanding it. 7 A The liability exposure pretty much deals with 8 the exceptions. And service opportunities would 9 primarily relate to production-type records that you 10 might want to use later on when you get a repair job, 11 for example. 12 Q Now, the exceptions don't involve disposal; is 13 that correct? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q So when you answered that, the reduction and 16 liability exposure involving disposal pertaining to the exceptions, I think you must have misunderstood my question. All I'm trying to get at is what would be disposed of that would reduce liability exposure. MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I don't think he's suggested that that's the interpretation of that sentence, but try to answer, Mr. Biernacki. A The records -- you know, the policy covers -it's a retention policy. And I'll try to give one example, although I don't know what the retention date Brandon Reporting Service _______________________________________________________ 48 9 1 might be, but say a letter book, like we discussed 2 before, is strictly an individual keeps that document 3 until, say, two years, and then he can dispose of it. 4 That's what the retention policy means. If it fell into 5 -- in the liability sense if it fell into one of the 6 categories such as number 2 or 3, we would not be -- the 7 retention policy would be superseded and we would hold 8 it. 9 BY MR. SCHALK: 10 Q Do you know why PCBs were singled out as an 11 exception? 12 A Well, Mr. Neal wrote a specific directive on 13 that. I think primarily because of the litigation that 14 was going on at the time. 15 Q Well, we've been through this a few times. I 16 just want to make sure I get your testimony clear on the 17 record. 18 Are you saying that this memo does not say 19 that disposing of some records would help minimize GE's 20 liability exposure? 21 A If someone disposed of something not in 22 accordance with the policy, it could affect the 23 liability. I would give you an example of that. A 24 contract document. 25 Q Just to elaborate on that example, you might Brandon Reporting Service 49 1 have the original contract and somebody might sue you 2 with an altered version, it would help minimize your 3 liability exposure to produce the original? 4 A That's correct, in accordance with the policy. 5 Q Right. So that's -- if the policy says 6 maintain contracts at least until they expire, I can 7 understand why that should be enforced. That makes 8 sense to me. But going from the retention aspect of it 9 to the disposal, I wonder if you could answer that -- my 10 same question, could disposing of things minimize 11 liability exposure? 12 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Objection as 13 speculative. You can answer, Mr. Biernacki, if that 14 question makes any sense. 15 A It really doesn't make any sense to me. 16 BY MR. SCHALK: 17 Q Okay. I withdraw it. I don't want to ask any 18 senseless questions today. 19 What I'm trying to do is understand -20 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: May I try to cut 21 through this? Your question is whether minimizing 22 liability exposure can be furthered by disposal, as well 23 as retention, those two concepts are used conjunctively 24 at the end, and it's -- it appears obviously from the document it's talking about both concepts together. But Brandon Reporting Service 50 1 your question, I guess, is: Does Mr. Biernacki believe 2 that liability could be minimized through records 3 disposal as opposed to records retention? 4 MR. SCHALK: That's the question I've 5 been asking. 6 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: You can try to answer 7 that, Mr. Biernacki. 8 A Well, I'll try again. Our retention policy 9 tells you to keep a record for a certain amount of time. 10 If it doesn't fall into one of the other exceptions, it 11 can be destroyed. And I don't see an effect on 12 liability exposure there. 13 BY MR. SCHALK: 14 Q Well, you've been involved in litigation and, 15 I gather, documents for litigation. Have you never in 16 your experience had a document that you produced to a 17 plaintiff in a lawsuit used against you? 18 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Object. Certainly 19 outside the scope of his experience and knowledge and 20 the scope of the subject matter of this deposition, but 21 you're free to answer, Mr. Biernacki, if you can. 22 A I would say the opposition has used some 23 documents from time to time to try to make their case. 24 BY MR. SCHALK: 25 Q So you can, then, conceive of situations in L Brandon Reporting Service 51 1 which disposing of documents would minimize liability? 2 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Objection. 3 Speculative. You can try to answer. 4 A I suppose that could happen. 5 BY MR. SCHALK: 6 Q Is that something you and Mr. Neal were 7 anticipating when you decided to write this memo? 8 A No, I don't think in that context. 9 Q Then, as I understand it, the second sentence 10 would express your intent better if it just said, In 11 order to take advantage of the service opportunities and 12 to minimize our liability exposure, careful 13 consideration must be given now, underlined, to records 14 retention, and that disposal in there just doesn't mean 15 anything; is that right? 16 A I think once it's not retained, it's disposed. 17 Q Did you review any Westinghouse documents in 18 preparing for this deposition? 19 A No, I did not. 20 Q Have you seen a draft memorandum, 22 pages in 21 length, with the names Bair and Bickerstaff, B-a-i-r and B-i-c-k-e-r-s-t-a-f-f at the end? A No. Q Did GE and Westinghouse trade ideas regarding document retention and disposal? Brandon Reporting Service * 1 A Not to my knowledge. 52 2 Q So you don't know if General Electric has ever 3 supplied Westinghouse with your policies just as a 4 courtesy to help them devise their own retention and 5 disposal policies? 6 A N o . I wouldsay no. 7 Q Was it part of your duty when you wrote this 8 memo to -- part of your duty as a GE employee to write 9 this memo? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Just doing itduring the course of your job? 12 A Yes. 13 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I don't know if this is 14 the beginning of a long line, but I believe this was 15 proffered to us to authenticate it, and we did. 16 MR. SCHALK: That was the litany of 17 the 18 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: The signature is 19 genuine, and it's dated on or about the time it 20 reflects. 21 MR. SCHALK: So this is a business record 22 of General Electric? 23 M R . SHAUGHNESSY: Yes. 24 MR. SCHALK: Thanks for sparing me. 25 BY MR. SCHALK: Brandon Reporting Service 53 1 Q Other than the four policies, what else did 2 you -- what other documents did you review in 3 preparation for this deposition? 4 A I had a file which included a number of 5 documents that either were written to me, or copied to 6 me, or authored by me, relative to the retention, pretty 7 much following this letter of March 17th, 1987. 8 Q Did any of them precede this letter? I 9 mean 10 A I don't recall. Well, Mr. Neal's, of course, 11 did, because I referred to them in this letter and they 12 both preceded it. It included those. 13 Q You gave me an example of how retaining a 14 document could minimize GE's liability exposure. And 15 you gave the example of a contract. Could you give me 16 an example of how it could minimize exposure to a 17 product claim? And I'm looking at the first sentence of 18 the memorandum, March 17th, 1987 memorandum that we've 19 been discussing. 20 A Well, I'll try. We have -- every transformer, 21 for example, undergoes factory tests; therefore, you 22 keep the test records for a certain amount of time. And 23 if we had a field complaint where there is a question of 24 whether the unit was properly tested, you'd want to look 25 at those records. That would minimize your claim Brandon Reporting Service  1 exposure there. 54 2 Q Is there any way a document could help you on 3 a personal injury lawsuit? 4 A I would say quality control documents 5 covering, for example, preparing the unit for shipment, 6 again, testing, and if someone got hurt then we had to 7 show that we did, indeed, again, test it or prepare it 8 for shipment properly, or whatever. I think that would 9 be another type liability. 10 Q Okay. How many documents all together did you 11 review in preparation for this deposition? 12 A Probably around 20, including the policies. 13 Q Okay. So other than the four policies, that 14 leaves 16? 15 A Approximately. 16 Q Yes, approximately. Were all those memoranda 17 and letters that you either received or sent? 18 A I'm sorry, were they all -- 19 Q Yes, were they all in that category, or was 20 there anything else that you reviewed other than 21 correspondence? 22 A No, I think that was it. 23 Q Did you tell me every person who you spoke 24 with about this deposition? 25 A Relative to retention? Brandon Reporting Service 55 1 Q Right. 2 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I believe that question 3 was asked and answered. If you want to -4 MR. SCHALK: I know he gave me some 5 names, but I wasn't sure we had exhausted everybody. 6 A I believe we have. 7 BY MR. SCHALK: 8 Q Okay. 9 MR. SCHALK: Well, I'd like to suspend 10 this deposition for the time being and possibly resume 11 it later, or possibly go ahead and end it later. 12 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: We object. I mean, Mr. 13 Biernacki is here to answer questions, and we're not 14 planning to bring him back. So I would say, you know, 15 we will consider it closed, we can fight about that 16 afterwards, but if you want to draw the line here on 17 document retention, that's fine. 18 MR. SCHALK: Just for the time being I 19 do, and I hope that if we need to resume that, we can do 20 that this afternoon for a brief period and get some 21 questions answered that we didn't have answers to. 22 So, I mean, I don't want to have to bring 23 him back. I'm primarily curious about documents that 24 would come under the category of adverse health effects, 25 adverse effects on the environment, and hazards in Brandon Reporting Service  general associated with PCBs and related compounds. 56 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Well, I mean, I think you are free to ask him questions about that. I don't L think we, by any means, exhausted the scope of Mr. c Biernacki's awareness. I think perhaps if we broke down ( the concept of hazards that was something less vague and more concrete, he would be able to comment on that. i MR. SCHALK: Well, the problem was, ( though, we weren't sure what policies applied to li environmental and facilities operation in Pittsfield, 1 and similar operations in the other divisions. And I l; just want to talk to somebody who can be a 30(b)(6) l witness for GE regarding those areas. l MR. SHAUGHNESSY: I just don't think Mr. l Biernacki's deposition testimony so far should lead you l to believe that the only place those documents -- such l documents and those subjects are located are in those l facilities. l Obviously Mr. Biernacki is here also in a 2 different capacity, to talk about warnings. And if you 2 want to ask him about retention of warnings, and similar 2 subjects, I think he's prepared to address those. I 2 mean, I obviously can't take the deposition for you, but 2 I think you're being premature in declaring that you have come to a dry well here. Brandon Reporting Service 57 * 1 MR. SCHALK: Well, we both made our 2 statements for the record, and we both agree that we 3 will now go on to the next deposition; is that correct? 4 MR. SHAUGHNESSY: Okay. That's fine. I 5 mean, for the record, we object to the continuation of 6 this deposition. Why don't we take a break and I'll 7 talk to Mr. Biernacki for a second and we can put on his 8 different hat and come back into the room. 9 10 (The deposition adjourned at 11:02 a.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Brandon Reporting Service JURAT 58 Richard J Biernacki Subscribed to and sworn before me on this day of _____________________ 1993. My Commission Expires: Brandon Reporting Service *9* # * STATE OF CONNECTICUT 59 I, BETHANY A. CARRIER, a Notary Public, duly commissioned and qualified in and for the State of Connecticut, do hereby certify that pursuant to notice there came before me on the 15th day of July, 1993, the following-named person, to wit: Richard J. Biernacki, who was by me duly sworn to testify to the truth and nothing but the truth; that he was thereupon carefully examined upon his oath and his examination reduced to writing under my supervision; that this deposition is a true record of the testimony given by the witness. I further certify that I am neither attorney nor counsel for nor related to nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition is taken, and further that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto, or financially interested in this action. IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this _____ day of ____________________ , 1993. My Commission Expires: October 31, 1998 Bethany A. Carrier Notary Public Brandon Reporting Service