Document g2V5vVM9LDeJj772dvxeRedBN
FILE NAME: Square D(SQD) DATE: 2014 July 2 DOC#: SQD006 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Redfield for Square D
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS STATE OF MISSOURI
TWENTY-SECOND JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
JEFF KOVAR,
)
) Plaintiff, )
)
-vs-
) No. 1322-CC01123
) SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC USA, )
et al.,
)
) Defendants. )
VIDEOTAPED DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OF MICHELLE REDFIELD
Taken on behalf o f the Plaintiff July 2, 2014
Reported by Allison D. Weber, CSR Illinois License No. 084-002238
1
INDEX
2 WITNESS
PAGE
3 MICHELLE REDFIELD
4 Exam by Mr. Baumstark
8
Exam by Mr. Beshore
188
56 Exam by Ms. Newton
189
7
EXHIBITS
8 NUMBER
MARKED FOR ID
9 Plaintiff's Exhibit
10 No. 1 (Notice of Corporate Video
Deposition: Defendant
11
Square D Company)
9
No. 2 (Defendant Schneider
12
Electric USA, Inc.'s,
formerly known as Square D
13
Company, Second Supplemental
Responses to Plaintiffs
14
Interrogatories)
18
No. 3 (General information of
15
Schneider Electric)
39
No. 4 (Excerpt of general information
16
of Schneider Electric) 40
No. 5 (Letter dated 6/3/14 from
17
Foley & Mansfield with
attachments)
57
18 No. 6 (Inter-Office memo from
WM to DM, March 29,173) 64
19 No. 7 (Letter from C.E. Noll to
John Katzbeck, February 21,
20
1991; Letter from John Katzbeck
to Durez Division,
21
February 4,1991)
71
No. 8 (Defendant Rogers Corporation's
2 2
Answers to Plaintiffs
Interrogatories)
73
23
24
Page 2
Page 3
1
E X H I B I T S (Continued)
2 Number
MARKED FOR ID
3 Plaintiffs Exhibit
4 No. 9 (Inter-Office memo from
ME to DM, January 9,1980) 78
5 No. 10 (Internal memo from Rich
,
Niccolls to Jim Dutton,
6
January 22, 1991)
82
No. 11 (Inter-Office from Missouri
7
to Cedar Rapids, October 5,
1979)
86
8 No.12 (Use of Asbestos in Square D
Company Operations)
89
9 No. 13 (Results: Asbestos survey) 98
No. 14 (EPA Reporting Commercial and
10
Industrial Uses of Asbestos,
signed April 27, 1983)
101
11 No. 15 (Inter-Office memo from
Lexington to See Below,
12
September 16, 1985)
105
No. 16 (Safety Standards, Asbestos:
13
Airborne danger)
130
No. 17 (Report of Investigation) 148
14 No. 18 (Inter-Office from WM to DM,
April 5, 1973)
156
15 No.19 (Airborne Asbestos/Fiberglas) 161
No. 20 (U.S. Department of Labor
16
notice of proposed penalty,
June 4, 1973)
169
17 No. 21 (Schneider Electric USA,
Inc.'s, formerly known as
18
Square D Company, Objections
to Plaintiffs Notice of
19
Corporate Video Deposition) (marked after
dep)
20
21
22
23
(Whereupon, Mr. Baumstark
retained Exhibit No. 5.)
24
25
Page 4
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS
STATE OF MISSOURI
2
TWENTY-SECOND JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
3
JEFF KOVAR,
)
4
)
Plaintiff,
)
5
)
-vs-
) No. 1322-CC01123
6
)
SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC USA, )
7 et al.,
)
)
8
Defendants. )
9
10
The videotaped discovery deposition of
1 1 MICHELLE REDFIELD produced, sworn, and examined on
1 2 behalf o f the Plaintiff, on July 2, 2014, between
1 3 the hours o f 10:01 in the morning and 2:53 in the
1 4 afternoon on that day at 70 West Madison, Suite 3000,
1 5 Chicago, Illinois, before Allison D. Weber, a
1 6 Certified Shorthand Reporter, and a Notary Public.
17
18 19
20
21 22
23
24
25
1 (Pages 1 to 4)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
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APPEARANCES:
O'BRIEN LAW FIRM, P.C. BY: MR. BARTHOLOMEW! BAUMSTARK 815 Geyer Avenue St. Louis, MO 63104 Appearing on behalf of Plaintiff;
FOLEY &MANSFIELD, PLLP
BY: MS. LISE ALEXA NEWTON 1001 Highlands Plaza Drive West Suite 400 St. Louis, MO 63110 Appearing on behalf of Plastics Engineering Company;
HAWKINS PARNELL THACKSTON &YOUNG, LLP
BY: MR. RENO R. COVA m 10 South Broadway Suite 1300 St. Louis, MO 63102-1708 Appearing telephonically on behalf of Reichhold, Inc.;
HEYL, ROYSTER, VOELKER & ALLEN BY: MS. DOMINIQUE D. DE VASTEY 105 West Vandalia Suite 100 Edwardsville, IL 62025 Appearing telephonically on behalf of McKesson Corporation;
HUSCH BLACKWELL LLP BY: MR. STEVEN B. BESHORE 190 Carondelet Plaza Suite 600 St. Louis, MO 63105 Appearing on behalf of Cytec Engineered Materials Inc.;
Page 5
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Page 6
K&L GATES, LLP
1
BY: MR. MICHAEL ZUKOWSKI
210 Sixth Avenue
2
Pittsburgh, PA 15222
3
Appearing on behalf of Schneider
Electric USA, Inc., f/k/a Square D Company;
4
NELSON MULLINS RILEY & SCARBOROUGH, LLP 5
BY: MR. JACK SLOSSON
6
100 North Tryon Street
7
42nd Floor
Charlotte, NC 28202
8
Appearing on behalf of Occidental Chemical;
9
POLSINELLI, PC
10
BY: MR. ANTHONY L. SPRINGFIELD
11
900 W. 48th Place
Suite 900
12
Kansas City, MO 64112
13
Appearing on behalf of Schneider
Electric USA, Inc., f/k/a Square D Company;
14
15
SEGAL, MCCAMBRIDGE, SINGER & MAHONEY, LTD.
BY: MR. CHRISTOPHER TRISKA
16
233 South Wacker Drive
17
Suite 5500
Chicago, IL 60606
18
Appearing on behalf of Rogers Corporation.
19
20
21
ALSO PRESENT:
22
Scot Ziarko, Videographer
23
24
25
Page 7
It is hereby stipulated and agreed by and between Counsel for the Plaintiff and Counsel for the Defendants, that this deposition may be taken in shorthand by A llison D. W eber, a Certified Shorthand Reporter, and Notary Public, and afterwards transcribed into typewriting, and the signature o f the w itness is not w aived by agreem ent o f counsel and the witness.
oOo THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. W e are now on the record. This the videotaped deposition o f M ichelle Redfield. Today's date is July 2nd, 2014. The tim e is now 10:01 a.m.
This is the case o f Jeff Kovar versus Union Carbide Corporation, et al., C ase N o. 1322-CC01123. This deposition is being held at 70 W est M adison Street, Chicago, Illinois.
M y nam e is Scot Ziarko. I'm the videographer for Pohlm anUSA Court Reporting located at 10 South B roadw ay Suite 1400, St. Louis, M issouri. The court reporter is Allison W eber, also with PohlmanUSA Court Reporting.
Counsel will be reflected in the
Page 8
w ritten record. W ill the court reporter please sw ear
in the w itness? (W itness sw orn.)
T H E V ID E O G R A PH E R : Y ou m ay begin. M IC H ELLE R ED FIELD ,
called as a w itness herein, having been first duly sw orn, w as exam ined and testified as follow s:
EX A M IN A TIO N BY MR. BAUM STARK:
Q. M iss R edfield, good m orning. A . G ood m orning. Q. M y nam e is B art B aum stark, and I represent the K ovar fam ily in this law suit.
Just state your nam e for the record and quickly, please.
A . M ichelle R edfield. Q . A nd you and I ju st m et about five m inutes ago; is th at right? A . Yes. Q. H ave you ever been deposed before? A . I have not. Q. T his is y o u r first tim e? A. Yes. Q. L et m e go over ju st a few ground rules
2 (Pages 5 to 8)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 9
Page 11
1 then. I f you answ er m y question, w e're going to
2 assum e th at yo u understood the question; is th at
3 fair?
4
A. Okay.
5
Q. If you do not understand the question,
6 p lease let m e know and I'll do m y b est to rephrase
7 it so that you do understand.
8
A. Okay.
9
Q. D o you understand the answ ers you give
1 0 today w ill bind Schneider Electric U SA also know n
1 1 as Square D for the purposes o f this law suit?
12
A. I do.
13
(W hereupon, P la in tiffs E xhibit
14
No. 1 w as m arked for
15
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
16 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
17
Q. M iss R edfield, I have handed you w hat's
1 8 b e e n m ark ed as E x h ib it 1. C an y o u tell m e w hat
1 9 E xhibit 1 is?
20
A . It is a N otice o f C orporate V ideo
2 1 D eposition, D efendant Square D C om pany.
22
Q. H ave you had an opportunity to look at
2 3 and review that notice prior to this m orning?
24
A. Y es, I have review ed this before.
25
Q. A re you prepared to discuss all the
1
Q. Tell m e about your educational background
2 if you would. Do you have a college degree, I
3 assume?
4
A. I have a college degree from Northw estern
5 U niversity.
6
Q. W hat w as your degree in?
7
A. I had a B.S. in environm ental
8 engineering.
9
Q. A ny postgraduate work?
10
A. No.
11
Q. A re you a certified industrial hygienist?
12
A. I am not.
13
Q. If som eone w ere to ask you w hat you do
14 for a living, w hat w ould your response be?
15
A. I'm the D irector for E nvironm ent and
1 6 Safety for Schneider E lectric N orth A m erica.
17
Q. H ow long have you w orked for
18 Schneider Electric U SA?
19
A. Four years.
20
Q. A nd tell m e a little bit about your job
2 1 responsibilities for Schneider.
22
A. A s the D irector for Environm ent, H ealth
2 3 and S afety fo r N orth A m erica, it's -- m y team is
2 4 responsible for all the environm ental program s
2 5 prim arily associated w ith the m anufacturing
Page 10
Page 12
1 topics listed, A through H , on Exhibit 1?
1 facilities. I also support a group o f about eight
2
A. Yes.
2 sites in a particular business unit for environm ent
3
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Just we filed some
3 and safety.
4
objections yesterday. I think they're pretty
4
Q. W here are those eight units?
5
standard. W e'll get a copy o f that and m ake
5
A. T hey're in N orth A m erica, so there are
6
an exhibit if w e can.
6 tw o in M exico, and th e rem ainin g ones are in the
7
M R . B A U M S T A R K : I'll object to your
7 U.S.
8
objections.
8
Q. A re one o f those units the C edar R apids
9
M S. N EW TO N : Fair enough.
9 plant?
10
M R. BA U M STA RK : Someone can throw in a 1 0
A. I don't directly support the C edar Rapids
11
third objection.
1 1 plant.
12 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
12
Q. Do you directly support the Colum bia,
13
Q. M iss Redfield, you are a m em ber o f the
1 3 M issouri plant?
14 N ational A ssociation for Environm ental M anagem ent; 14
A. I do not.
15 is that right?
15
Q. D o you indirectly support either o f those
16
A. NAEM?
1 6 plants?
17
Q. Right.
17
A. Y es, through the oversight o f the
18
A. It's the N ational A ssociation for EH S
18 environm ental program s.
19 m anagers.
19
Q. This is kind o f a personal question. I
20
Q. D o you have a copy o f your CV w ith you
2 0 don't usually ask this o f w itnesses. B ut can you
2 1 today?
2 1 tell m e how old you are?
22
A. I do not.
22
A. I'm 49.
23
Q. Do you have a CV?
23
Q. W ould it be right to say that your
24
A. I have a resum e. I'm not sure how
2 4 personal know ledge o f the facts in this case are
2 5 up-to-date it is. 1______
2 5 lim ited to any docum ents you have review ed and any
3 (Pages 9 to 12)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
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1 interview s w ith w itnesses you m ay have conducted,
1 electrical circuit breakers?
2 anything anyone m ay have told you about w hat has
2
A. No.
3 happened in this case?
3
Q. D o either o f the plants continue to
4
A. T hat is correct.
4 m anufacture circuit breakers?
5
Q. Y ou did not w ork w ith M r. K ovar
5
A. C edar R apids does not, and I'm not sure
6 obviously, correct?
7
A. I did not w ork w ith M r. K ovar.
6 about M issouri.
7
Q. W hat does the plant in C edar R apids
8
Q. I have been referring to your em ployer
8 m anufacture?
9 so far as Schneider Electric USA. The form er nam e
9
A. C urrently they m anufacture contacts that
10 o f Schneider E lectric U SA w as Square D ; is th at
10 go into breakers.
11 right?
11
Q. A nd w hat's a contact?
12
A. Square D w as acquired by
12
A. It's a very sm all m etal thing.
13 Schneider Electric. I'm not sure about the legal
13
Q. D o you know w hat the purpose o f a contact
14 entities.
14 is?
15
M R. ZU K O W SK I: If you w ant, for ease o f
15
A. I'm not that fam iliar w ith the purpose o f
16
reference, w e can call it Square D.
16 a contact.
17
M R . B A U M ST A R K : That's w hat I w ant to do. 17
Q. O kay. That's fair.
18
M R. ZUKO W SKI: If it m akes it easier for
18
M R . Z U K O W SK I: B eyond th e scope. It's
19
everybody, let's ju st call it S quare D.
19
not w hat she's here for.
20 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
20 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
21
Q. So you understand w hen I refer to
21
Q. A nd w hat does the Square D plant in
22 Square D , I'm talking about Schneider E lectric U SA 2 2 C olum bia, M issouri do today? W hat do they
23 and the form er Square D?
23 m anufacture?
24
A. I do.
24
A . L et m e th ink for a m inute. T hey are in a
25
Q. Fair enough?
25 cluster that is our -- I can't recall w hich cluster
Page 14
Page 16
1
A. Ido.
1 they're in, they're in either in the equipm ent to
2
Q. Okay. Thank you.
2 order cluster or the m anufacture to order. I'm not
3
Do you have any idea how many people
3 sure w hich cluster they're in.
4 Square D employs today?
4
Q. Okay. Fair enough.
5
A. I'm sorry, that actual reference does
5
W hat have you brought with you today,
6 confuse me because I'm more fam iliar with what, you
6 if anything?
7 know, Schneider Electric North America --so I
7
A. I brought the Supplem ental Responses to
8 apologize. W e're at approxim ately 25,000 people in
8 the P lain tiffs Interrogatories, and I brought a
9 the North America region.
9 notebook in case I needed to take som e notes or
10
Q. Okay. You understand that Mr. Lyle Kovar
10 w rite som ething down.
11 worked at Square D plants in Cedar Rapids, Iowa; a
11
Q. D o you have any notes in the notebook
12 training facility in the Columbia, M issouri area
12 right now pertaining to this case?
13 and the Columbia, Missouri plant, correct?
13
A . N ot pertaining to this case. T his is
14
A. 1 understand that he worked at the
14 just a general notebook.
15 Cedar Rapids plant, and I understand that he worked 15
Q. Okay. A nd the supplem ental rogs, did you
1 6 in the M issouri plant.
1 6 sign those? D id you verily those?
17
Q. You do not understand he worked at a
17
A. I have not signed this one yet.
18 training facility between 1978 and 1979?
18
Q. Have you reviewed them?
19
A. I have not heard of that.
19
A. I did.
20
Q. That would be news to you this morning?
20
Q. A re those answ ers com plete and correct in
21
A. That would be news to me this morning.
21 your opinion?
22
Q. Do the plants in Cedar Rapids, Iowa and
22
A. Yes.
23 Columbia, Missouri still operate today?
23
Q. So you would stand by those today?
| 24
A. Yes, they do.
24
A. W ell, I have to say that because I
25 1______
Q. Do they both continue to manufacture
25 didn't --I wasn't able to identify these exact
4 (Pages 13 to 16)
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docum ents that were referenced on here, there were
1
A. I was not aware of some of the regulatory
these Bates numbers, but the general responses are
2 history involved in this case, and I took some
correct.
3 notes about some regulatory developments on OSHA
Q. You would agree with the general
4 and EPA about when certain things cam e into place.
responses in the second supplemental rog answers,
5
Q. W hat were the notes that you made
correct?
6 specifically?
A. Yes.
7
A. I noted that in, let's see, June o f 1972
Q. Y ou're not sure if the docum ents are
8 there was an OSHA standard that came out related to
100 percent responsive; is th at fair?
9 asbestos.
A. I did not go back and try to find each
10
I noted that in M arch o f 1971 there
one o f these docum ents that w as referenced in here. 11 was an EPA listing o f hazardous air pollutants.
Q. D o you know w ho did that?
12
And in A pril o f 1973 is when the
A. I don't. I think it was some -- som eone
13 asbestos NESHAPS were promulgated.
from the attorneys.
14
And then in 1985 that's w hen H AZCO M
M R. BAUM STARK: Can w e go o ff the record 15 came out, little chronology o f regulatory
for a second?
16 developments.
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Sure.
17
Q. Fair enough. Thank you for that
TH E V ID EO G R A PH ER : T he tim e is 10; 11.
18 explanation.
W e're o ff the record.
19
Do you have any other notes on
(Discussion o ff the record.)
20 Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 2?
TH E V ID EO G RA PH ER: T he tim e is 10:11.
21
A. It has been -- there have been some
W e're back on the record.
22 things that have been highlighted with a
MR. BAUM STARK: For the record, the
23 highlighter.
deponent arrived w ith a notebook. Y ou have --
24
Q. Did you highlight those?
both the deponent and counsel for Square D has
25
A. I did.
Page 18
Page 20
said there's noth in g to do w ith the case in
1
Q. W hat w as the purpose for your highlights?
th e n o teb o o k . I'm accep tin g that. She's
2
A. I think it ju st helps m e rem em ber w hen I
going to p u t it on th e flo o r and w e're gonna
3 highlight.
forget ab o u t it. F air?
4
Q' Okay. Could I see Plaintiffs No. 2
M R . ZU K O W SK I: Fair.
5 again?
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
6
A. Sure.
Q. M iss R edfield, can you hand m e the
7
Q. T hank you, m a'am .
answ ers to the rogs, please?
8
L et m e ask you about the answ er to
Thank you very much.
9 Interrogatory N o. 2. Y ou have highlighted the last
(W hereupon, P laintiffs Exhibit
10 sentence o f that answ er, correct?
N o. 2 w as m arked for
11
A. T he last sentence is highlighted.
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
12
Q. Could you read to m e w hat you
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
13 highlighted?
Q. A nd the answ ers to the rogs that w e have
14
A . "It is presently unknow n w hether
been discussing have now been m arked as
15 M r. K ovar w as exposed to, or otherw ise inhaled,
P lain tiffs E xhibit 2, correct?
16 respirable asbestos fibers in his various positions
A. Yes.
17 at Square D."
Q. C ould you hand that back to m e quickly?
18
Q. Do you agree w ith that answ er?
T h an k yo u , m a'am .
19
A. Ido.
T here are som e notes I notice on the
20
Q. H ave you read any o f the depositions
back o f the last page. A re those your notes?
21 taken in this case?
A . T hose are m y notes.
22
A. T here w ere three depositions, and I
Q. C an you ju st tell m e briefly w hy you m ade
23 didn't review them thoroughly. It w as a lot o f
th o se notes and w h y y o u b elieve th ey're relev an t to 24 pages, but I did review a few , you know , I kind o f
this case?
25 did an overview o f som e o f the pages.
5 (Pages 17 to 20)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
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1
Q. W hy didn't you review them thoroughly?
2
A. I received them just, I don't know, maybe
1 11:00 and finished up around 4:00.
2
Q. D id you m eet with them this m orning?
3 a w eek ago, and I was travelling at the tim e, and I
3
A. Yes.
4 didn't have the time.
4
Q. D id you have any phone conversations with
5
Q. Y ou understand that M r. K ovar died o f
5 them ?
6 m esotheliom a, correct?
6
A. Yes.
7
A. I understand that.
7
Q. H ow m any phone conversations did you have
8
Q. Can I have No. 2 back, please?
8 w ith them , if you can recall?
9
Do you know whether the three
9
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Just to be clear, the
10 witnesses who were deposed in this case,
10
substance o f the conversations are obviously
11 Mr. Anderson, Mr. Em anuel and M r. Ogden, described 11
privileged.
12 scenarios at both the Square D plant in
12
M R. BA U M STA R K : Right.
13 Cedar Rapids, the Square D plant in Columbia,
13
TH E W ITNESS: R elative to the m atter?
14 M issouri and also the training facility in
14 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
15 Columbia, M issouri instances w here M r. Kovar was
15
Q. R elative to this case.
16 w orking w ith and around asbestos-containing m olding 16
A. Too. R elative to logistics and things
17 compounds?
17 like that, you know , perhaps five or ten m ore.
18
MR. ZUKOW SKI: Object to the form.
18
Q. The first tim e you received the
19
Go ahead.
1 9 depositions o f M r. K ovar's co-w orkers w as last
20
TH E W ITNESS: Could you m aybe shorten
2 0 week. W as that your testim ony?
21
that question for me?
21
A. T he first tim e I w as able to review them
22 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
22 w as last week.
23
Q. Sure. D id the three witnesses who were
23
Q. Okay. Fair enough. H ave you spoken with
2 4 deposed in this case talk about M r. K ovar's
24 any nonlaw yers in preparation for this case?
25 exposures at the Square D w ork sites?
25
A. Yes.
Page 22
Page 24
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
L ii_
A . I'm not sure. Q. Is th at because you didn't review all the depositions thoroughly? A. Yes. Q. F air enough. I'm going to h old o n to No. 2, okay?
H ow m uch tim e have you spent preparing for this deposition, if you know ?
A. O n the order o f som ew here between 20 and 40 hours.
Q. H ow m any tim es have you m et w ith lawyers for Square D?
A . A bout this m atter? Q. Correct. A . O kay. T hree, fou r tim es. Q. D o you rem em ber w hen the first tim e w as? A . I don't recall the date. Q. W as it last m onth? A . I'm sorry, I w ould have to look back at m y calendar. I can't recall. Q. D id you m eet w ith them yesterday? A. Yes. Q. H ow m uch tim e did you spend w ith them yesterday? A . Let's see, w e started around 10:30 or
1
Q. W ho have you spoken with?
2
A . Rich W iddow son and Bill V osdingh.
3
Q. A nd w ho is R ich W iddow son?
4
A . R ich W iddow son is a current em ployee o f
5 Schneider Electric, and he form erly w orked at the
6 M issouri plant.
7
Q. W hat w as his position at the M issouri
8 plant, if you know?
9
A . I'm not sure, but I believe he w orked in
10 the plating departm ent.
11
Q. W hat occurred in the plating departm ent,
12 if you know?
13
A . I'm not sure o f the specific process.
14 T hey did som e plating o f m etal parts.
15
Q. D id anything he tell you help you form -
16 strike that.
17
D id anything he tell you form the
18 factual basis for any answ ers you're prepared to
19 give today?
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. D id you take notes on your conversation
22 w ith M r. W iddow son?
23
A. Yes.
24
Q. W here are those notes?
25
A . T hey're back in m y office.
6 (Pages 21 to 24)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 25
Page 27
1
M R . B A U M ST A R K : I'll m ake a req u est for
1
Q. Did he tell you whether or not the
2
those notes.
2 com pany m ade any form al or official warnings to its
3 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
3 em ployees about w orking with asbestos?
4
Q. D id you m eet w ith him in person?
4
A. H e did not.
5
A. Yes.
5
Q. D id you ask him that question?
6
Q. W here did you m eet him ?
6
A. I think my question w as m ore general.
7
A. W e w ere travelling together last w eek,
7
Q. Y ou understand that this is a law suit
8 and w e m et in our N ashville A irp ark office.
8 about exposure to asbestos, correct?
9
Q. N ow you said you w ere travelling together
9
A. Yes.
10 last week. Could you tell m e exactly w hy you were
10
Q. A nd he did not tell you anything about
11 travelling together?
11 any warnings that were given to the employees o f
12
A . W e w ere attending a sta ff m eeting dow n in 12 Square D at the Columbia, M issouri plant during the
13 our N ashville A irpark facility.
13 tim e he w orked with M r. Kovar?
14
Q. D id that have anything to do w ith this
14
A. H e did not.
15 case?
15
Q. Did he tell you about any warnings about
16
A. No.
16 any hazardous m aterials that were given to Square D
17
Q. M r. W iddow son is som eone w ho you w ork
17 employees at the Columbia, M issouri plant?
18 w ith currently --
18
A. H e said that those warnings generally
19
A. Yes.
19 w ere provided by the departm ent supervisors and it
20
Q. --on m atters having nothing to do with
20 w as m anaged at that level.
21 this law suit?
21
Q. W as there a health or safety m anager or
22
A. Correct.
22 supervisor at the M issouri plant during this tim e
23
Q. W hat did M r. W iddow son tell you that you
23 with Mr. Kovar?
24 feel is o f relevance to the K ovar m atter?
24
A. There was.
25
A. I w as -- I asked -- had tw o kind o f lines
25
Q. W ho was that?
Page 26
Page 28
1 o f questions for him , one w as about w hen did our
1
A . I don't recall her nam e.
2 safety organization begin and w hat did it sort o f
2
Q. It was a fem ale?
3 look like generally and at the M issouri plant
3
A . Yes.
4 because he was there.
4
Q. W as she a certified industrial hygienist,
5
Q. Okay. And what was the second line o f
5 if you know?
6 questioning?
6
A . I don't know .
7
A. It was about Item No. F on the Notice o f
7
Q. D o you know anything about her education?
8 Deposition.
8
A . I don't.
9
Q. W hat is that item?
9
Q. D o you know anything about the training
10
A. About w arnings, cautions, notifications,
1 0 that Square D provided her regarding asbestos?
11 guidelines and so on.
11
A. I don't.
12
Q. And what did he tell you about Item F?
12
Q. The first line o f questioning that you
13 Let's do it backw ards. W hat did he tell you about
13 had from M r. W iddow son, I believe --correct m e if
14 Item F?
1 4 I'm w rong -- w as to do w ith w hen th e safety
15
A. H e said that the process for doing
15 organization or w hen the safety program began at
16 w arnings and com m unications related to health and 1 6 C olum bia; is th at fair?
17 safety environm ental issues was an inform al process 17
I f I butchered it, you tell m e again
18 at that tim e, and there weren't necessarily
18 w hat the first line o f questioning was.
19 documented training sessions, and that that would
19
A . I asked the question generally, but he
20 have been conducted prim arily by the area or
2 0 responded generally and ab out C olum bia.
21 departm ent supervisors.
21
Q. A nd w hat did he respond first to
22
Q. A nd this is during M r. W iddow son's work
22 generally?
23 with M r. Kovar at the Colum bia, M issouri plant,
23
A . H e said that there w as a corporate
^ 24 correct?
24 responsibility for health and safety starting
i_L
A. Correct.
2 5 around th e late 1960s th at w as part o f loss
7 (Pages 25 to 28)
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lI L
Page 29
control.
1
And in the early 1970s the loss
2
control m anager hired a safety m anager, a corporate
3
safety manager. His name w as Tom Cimino.
4
Q. A nd Mr. Cimino was out o f Palatine? Is
5
it Palatine, Illinois?
6
A. Yes.
7
Q. Mr. Cimino did not w ork at the
8
Cedar Rapids plant, did he?
9
A. I'm not sure. I know he was at
10
corporate.
11
Q. And the corporate offices for Square D
12
at all times relevant to this lawsuit w ere in
13
Palatine, Illinois; is that fair?
14
A. The corporate offices w ere in Palatine.
15
Q. A re they still there?
16
A. For North America, yes.
17
Q. W as Mr. Kovar ever a member o f the
18
loss control team at Cedar Rapids to your
19
k n ow ledge?
20
A. N ot to m y knowledge.
21
Q. W as he ever a mem ber o f the loss
22
control team at any time?
23
A. N ot to m y knowledge.
24
Q. Do you know if M r. W iddow son is going to
25
Page 30
appear as a w itness in this case?
1
A. I do not know.
2
Q. D id he discuss that w ith you?
3
A . H e did not.
4
Q . H e d id n 't ask you, "A m I going to be
5
called as a w itn ess in th e K ovar law suit?"
6
A . H e did not.
7
Q. A nd you did not ask him ?
8
A . I did not.
9
Q. Fair enough.
10
The second person you spoke w ith w as
11
a M r. V osdingh?
12
A . B ill V osdingh.
13
Q. I think I have seen a few prior
14
depositions o f M r. V osdingh. H ave you seen any
15
prior depositions o f M r. V osdingh?
16
A . I have not.
17
Q. W hat does M r. V osdingh do today for
18
Square D , if anything?
19
A . H e still w orks for Square D . I'm not
20
su re w h a t h is cu rren t role is.
21
Q. Is he a consultant? Is he a full-tim e
22
em ployee?
23
A . H e's a full-tim e em ployee.
24
Q . Y o u ju s t d on't k now w h a t h e does?
25
Page 31
A . R ight. Q. A nd w hen did you talk to M r. V osdingh? A. Last w eek. Q. W as that in person or over the phone? A . O ver the phone. Q . W here does he live, if you know ? A . Som ew here near C edar R apids. Q. O kay. A nd w hat w as the substance o f your conversation w ith M r. V osdingh? A . L et m e recall. I asked him a little bit ab ou t his role. I'm th ink in g back. I'm sorry.
I asked him ab ou t ~ th e sam e q u estion ab ou t n o tification s and w a rn in g s in C edar R apids.
Q. D id he ever w ork at the C olum bia, M issouri plant if you know ?
A . I d on 't th in k h e did. Q. D id he w ork at the C edar R apids plant? A . H e did. Q. W hen did he w ork there? A . H e started in th e 50s. Q. Do you know w hen he --do you know how long he w orked there? A . I'm n ot su re o f his h istory o f em ploym ent.
Page 32
Q. Did you take notes about your conversation with Mr. Vosdingh?
A. I did. MR. BAUM STARK: I'll make a request for
those as well. BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. W hat did he tell you about the warnings at the Cedar Rapids plant?
A. W ell, he's a manufacturing --plastics m anufacturing engineer, and he did not really have fam iliarity with that at Cedar Rapids from the engineering department. That would have been more a manufacturing thing.
Q. Could you tell me exactly what your understanding o f that jo b role was that Mr. Vosdingh did?
A. A t the tim e that w e w ere discussing, his role was to research and test molding compounds that were asbestos free, so he had an objective of identifying and replacing molding compounds that had asbestos in them .
Q. W hen did he start that objective? A. I would have to look back in the documents to find the exact date. I don't think the exact date is in the docum ents, but it was
8 (Pages 29 to 32) POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
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'
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 , 25
Page 33
Page 35
som etim e in the early 70s.
1
Q. W hen did Square D, if you know,
2
achieve that objective?
3
A . T he objective w as achieved at different
4
tim es at different plants.
5
Q. W hen was it achieved at C edar R apids?
6
A. A t C edar R apids it w as about 1980,1981.
7
Q. W hen was it achieved at the Colum bia,
8
M issouri plant?
9
A . T he date is unclear, b u t it's som ew here
10
betw een 1981 and 1985.
11
Q. Have you seen a docum ent produced by
12
Square D in this case indicating that the M issouri
13
plant was not asbestos free until 1985?
14
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
15
Go ahead and answer.
16
T H E W IT N E SS: Y es, that's - could you
17
restate that question, please?
18
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
19
Q. Sure.
20
Square D has produced quite a bit o f
21
docum entation as to this.
22
A . R ight.
23
Q. T hat's fair, correct?
24
A. Yes.
25
Page 34
subset o f docum ents that were provided to you, do you rem em ber w hat those docum ents were?
A. I don't rem em ber each and every docum ent. Q. How many docum ents were provided for you w ith that subset? A. Som ething about, w hat, four inches thick, som ething like that. Q. Do you have those anywhere that are segregated from the docum ents in total? A. Ido. Q. W here are those docum ents? A. T hey're in m y office.
M R. B A U M STA R K : I'll m ake a request ju st that those be identified. I don't need to see them again. I have got them all. I do w ant to know w hich ones were provided to her as a subset.
M R. ZU K O W SK I: W e'll talk about it after. MR. BAUM STARK: Okay. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. Getting back to M r. Vosdingh. M r. V osdingh was not able to give you any inform ation about asbestos warnings at Cedar Rapids; is that fair? A. T hat is fair.
Page 36
Q. H ave you review ed som e o f those docum ents?
A. I have review ed som e o f those docum ents. Q. Is there a list anyw here o f the docum ents you have review ed? A. No. Q. H ow did you choose the docum ents to review ? A. I looked at docum ents that seem ed relevant to these A through H questions. Q. W ere these docum ents provided to you by the attorneys for Square D ? A. A ll o f the docum ents w ere provided to m e by the attorneys for Square D. Q. D id they provide you w ith the sum total o f the docum ents produced, or did they provide you w ith a subset? A. Both. Q. Y ou haven't review ed all o f the docum ents produced, have you? A . I actually flipped through every docum ent. Q. H ow m uch tim e did that take you? A. It was over a day. Q. Do you rem em ber w hat docum ents, sm aller
1
Q. W hat information did he give you that you
2 found useful in this case, if any?
3
A. H e talked a little bit about --oh,
4 another topic that w e did talk is I wanted to learn
5 about w hat Lyle Kovar's roles w ere at the facility.
6
Q. D id Mr. Vosdingh know M r. Kovar?
7
A. H e did.
8
Q. W hat did he tell you about his roles at
9 Cedar Rapids?
10
A. He said when Mr. Vosdingh started
11 Lyle K ovar w as an hourly w orker who worked in the
12 assem bly area, and later on he was promoted to
13 salary, and he was in a supervisory role, I don't
14 rem em ber the exact title, over the fabrication
15 area.
16
Q. W hat else did he tell you, if anything?
17
A. H e talked a little bit about w hat his
18 role m ight have been in the fabrication area.
19
Q. And was he speculating w hen he gave you
20 that information, or was he speaking due to his own
21 personal knowledge?
22
A. I didn't ask if he was speculating. He
23 presented the answers as facts.
24
Q. Okay. And what were the answers he
25 presented to you?
9 (Pages 33 to 36)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 37
Page 39
1
A . H e said th at it w ou ld have been his role
1
Q. D id you do any research on your ow n?
2 to oversee the operations in the fabrication area.
2
A . I did do som e regulatory research.
3 H e w ould have been a personnel m anager. H e
3
Q. R ight. O ther than w hat w e have already
4 w ouldn't have w orked on the lines in the
4 discussed.
5 fabrication area.
5
A. No.
6
Q. W hy do you find that inform ation
6
Q. M iss R edfield, I w ant to talk to you now
7 relevant?
7 about Square D a little bit then now .
8
A . It w as an answ er that he provided.
8
D o you know w hen Square D w as first
9
Q. D id M r. V osdingh tell you that M r. K ovar
9 open for business and w here?
10 w ould on a w eekly basis as supervisor o f the
10
A . I'm sorry, I don't.
1 1 fabrication departm ent be in the actual fabrication
11
Q. A re you fam iliar w ith their w ebsite?
12 departm ent?
12
A . E xternal, not very.
13
A . H e didn't state that.
13
Q. H ave y o u ev er h ad o ccasion to visit it?
14
Q. A nything else he told you about
14
A. Y es.
15 M r. K ovar?
15
Q . L et m e h and y o u w h a t I'll m ark as
16
A . N ot specifically about M r. K ovar.
16 P laintiffs E xhibit 3.
17
Q. O f the docum ents that you review ed, are
17
(W hereupon, P laintiffs E xhibit
18 there any that you found particularly or relevant
18
N o. 3 w as m arked for
1 9 to the facts in this case?
19
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
20
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
20 BY MR. BAUM STARK:
21
Go ahead.
21
Q. T ake a m inute to review that, if you
22
TH E W ITN ESS: I think there w ere a lot
2 2 w ould. I f y o u feel you need to --
23
o f docum ents that respond to A through H, so I
23
A . T he w h ole thing?
24
can't p o in t to one or five. I think there
24
Q. D o you recognize P lain tiffs 3?
25
w ere m any docum ents that are relevant.
25
A . I have seen this docum ent before.
Page 38
Page 40
1 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
1
Q. A nd w hat's yo u r understanding o f w hat
2
Q. Let me ask it a different way.
2 th at d o cu m en t is?
3
A. Okay.
3
A . A general history o f the com pany.
4
Q. I'll tell you h ow I work. I f som eone
4
Q. A nd th is is available to th e public on
5 gives m e a stack that's 12 inches high, I'm gonna
5 the S chneider --o r the Square D w ebsite; is that
6 look th ro u g h all 12. B u t i f I th in k a d ocum ent is
6 fair?
7 relevant, I'm going to put it to the side, okay?
7
A . I don't know .
8
D id you engage in an activity sim ilar
8
Q . Y ou're n o t sure.
9 to w hat I just described?
9
I'll m ark -- th ere are a few specific
10
A. I tabbed ~ w hen I looked at the big set
10 pages that I w ant to go over w ith you,
11 o f docum ents, I put som e tabs on them to organize 11 M iss R edfield, rather th an the entire docum ent,
12 them by C edar R apids or M issouri. I tabbed ones 12 okay? L et m e m ark th at as P la in tiffs 4.
13 that seem ed relevant to the facts, and there w ere a 13
A. Thank you.
14 lot o f other docum ents that didn't seem as, to me,
14
(W hereupon, P la in tiffs E xhibit
15 as relevant.
15
N o. 4 w as m arked for
16
Q. There w ere a lot m ore docum ents
16
Id en tification , 07/02/2014.)
17 regarding C edar R apids than C olum bia, M issouri; is
17
M R . Z U K O W S K I: I'm ju s t going to p u t a
18 that fair?
18
b rie f objection. S he's n o t h ere to talk about
19
A. There w ere m ore docum ents for
19
the corporate history. T hat w asn't one o f the
20 C edar R apids than there w ere for M issouri.
20
topics. She can answ er to the extent she
21
Q. D id that strike you as strange in any way
21
know s, b u t ju s t so w e're clear.
22 w hen you w ent through the docum ents?
22
T his is N o. 4?
23
A. No.
23
M R . B A U M ST A R K : This is N o. 4.
24
Q. W hy not?
24 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
25
A . It didn't strike m e as strange.
25
Q . A n d o n P ag e 14 o f P la in tiff s 4, it's
10 (Pages 37 to 40)
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> 24 , 25
Page 41
Page 43
entitled Square D key dates, correct?
1
A. Yes.
2
Q . U n d er 1917, see w h ere th e y ea r 1917 is
3
listed?
4
A. Yes.
5
Q. A pparently this is w hen S quare D changed
6
its nam e to Square D , correct?
7
A. Yes.
8
Q . A n d in 1919 th e com pany's to tal sales
9
w ere already $1 m illion.
10
A . Y e s , t h a t 's w h a t th e d o c u m e n t sa y s.
11
Q . O n the next page, Page 15, by 1948
12
Square D had 7000 em ployees and 10 plants in
13
N orth A m erica as w ell as 43 regional offices that
14
produced h a lf o f th e circuit breakers u sed in
15
aviation; is that correct?
16
A . T hat's w h at it says.
17
Q. A nd on the sam e page, by 1955 Square D
18
had 72 sales offices, several hundred distributors
19
and had E uropean operations in L ondon, G erm any, 2 0
France and Italy, correct?
21
A . T hat's w h at it says.
22
Q. W hen did M r. K ovar start w orking for
23
Square D , if you rem em ber?
24
A . I th ink '56 or '58, som ething along that
25
Page 42
T H E W ITN ESS: I don't know o f the quantity. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. W e'll talk about that a little later.
A ttached at the end o f P laintiffs 4 is a N ew Y ork Tim es article that talks about w hen Schneider Electric or G roup Schneider, the French com pany, purchased Square D.
W ere you aw are that --w hen this purchase went through Square D was purchased for over $2 billion?
M R. ZUKOW SKI: O bject to the same form .
T H E W ITN ESS: That's w hat the docum ent says.
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Beyond the scope. BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. Y ou have no reason to dispute the accuracy o f that report, do you.
A. No. Q. W hen did M r. K ovar die? A. I don't know the answ er to that question. Q. D o you know how long he suffered from m esotheliom a? A. I don't.
Page 44
tim e fram e.
1
Q. D o you know how long he suffered the
Q. O n the sam e page in 1964, Square D had
2 effects o f m esotheliom a before his death?
10,000 em ployees in 22 plants, correct?
3
A. I don't.
A. T hat's w hat it says.
4
Q. W hat level o f education did M r. K ovar
Q. O n the next page, Page 16, by 1972
5 have?
Square D had expanded to South A frica and Ireland,
6
A. I don't know.
had an international netw ork that included 400
7
Q. H ave you seen his personnel file at
distributors in 75 countries and had three plants
8 Square D?
outside o f the U nited States em ploying som e 3,000
9
A. It's m y understanding that w e have not
people, correct?
1 0 been able to find the personnel file.
A. Yes.
11
Q. D oes that strike you as strange?
Q. B y 1977 Square D had agencies in
12
A. W e have docum ent retention policies, and
Singapore, B angkok and M anila and their sales
1 3 it's not -- no.
exceeded $500 m illion, correct?
14
Q. H ow long did he w ork for Square D ?
A. Yes.
15
A. H e started in '56 or '58, and I think he
Q. B ased upon your review o f the docum ents,
1 6 left in ab ou t - - 1 can't rem em ber. I can't
as o f the end o f 1977, Square D w as still using
17 rem em ber w hen he left. I don't know.
m illions o f pounds o f asbestos m olding com pounds at 18
Q. L et's talk about the positions th a t he
its C edar R apids plant on a yearly basis, correct?
1 9 held w ithin Square D. I think you already
A . I can't com m ent on the quantity. It is
2 0 discussed that you had talked to M r. V osdingh about
m y understanding that C edar R apids w as using
2 1 this issue and possibly M r. W iddow son; is that
asbestos m olding pow ders in 1977.
2 2 fair?
Q. W ere they using them extensively in your
23
A. Yes.
opinion, or in your understanding?
24
Q. H ave you seen any docum ents that discuss
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
2 5 the actual jo b responsibilities o f M r. K ovar?
11 (Pages 41 to 44)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 45
Page 47
1
A. I have seen an org chart that show s his
2 name, but I haven't seen any docum ents that specify
3 what that meant.
4
Q. Fair enough.
5
Can we agree that betw een 1958
6 and 1960 M r. Kovar was a move m an on the assembly
7 side?
8
A. I have not heard the term m ove man. I
9 understand he w as w orking on the assem bly side in
10 Cedar Rapids.
11
Q. Do you know what he was doing on the
12 assem bly side?
13
A. I do not.
14
Q. Do you know whether between 1960 and
15 1963 he was a lead m an on the assem bly side?
16
A. I have not heard that term. I have not
17 seen it in a docum ent that I have reviewed.
18
Q. At any point did he become the assembly
19 foreman?
20
A. I haven't heard that either. I haven't
21 seen that in a docum ent either.
22
Q. A t some point he did becom e the general
23 forem an o f assem bly and fabrication; is that right?
24
A. It's my understanding that he was a
25 forem an over the fabrication departm ent, not over
1
Q. W hat did they tell you?
2
A. Bill V osdingh -- I asked him the
3 question -- the training facility w as m entioned in
4 one o f the depositions, the other depositions, and
5 I asked him the question o f w hether he knew o f this
6 training facility.
7
H e did not know specifically o f that
8 training facility, but said that w ould have been a
9 com m on practice for Square D to do at the time
10 before opening up a new plant, that w e w ould have
11 set up a training facility, sent em ployees there to
12 learn at this training facility before the plant
13 opened up.
14
Q. Do you know if Mr. Vosdingh was provided
15 w ith any deposition testim ony in this case?
16
A. I don't know.
17
Q. D id he tell you he was provided with
18 anything?
19
A. H e did not.
20
Q. Okay. D id he express any doubt or any
21 criticism about any testim ony adduced in this case
22 regarding M r. K ovar's w ork responsibilities at this
2 3 training facility?
24
A. I'm not sure I understand your question.
25
Q. A t least one o f the witnesses in this
Page 46
Page 48
1 the assem bly.
2
Q. Okay. D o you know w hat his jo b
3 responsibilities w ere w hen he becam e the general
4 forem an?
5
A . N ot specifically.
6
Q. W hen did he leave the C edar R apids
7 plant?
8
A. I think it w as about 1978.
9
Q. A nd why did he leave?
10
A . H e w as transferred to the M issouri plant
11 is m y understanding.
12
Q. D id he go directly to the C olum bia plant
13 that exists today?
14
A . T hat's w h at I have heard, yeah , from
15 interview s.
16
Q. N o one you have talked to has discussed
17 the existence o f this tem porary training facility
18 that was open before the C olum bia, M issouri plant?
19
A . I have heard o f the existence o f a
2 0 tem porary training facility.
21
Q. H ow have you heard o f that?
22
A . I can 't recall if it w as R ich o r Bill.
23
Q. O ne o f them told you about a training
2 4 facility p rio r to the C olum bia plant's opening?
25
A. Yeah.
1 case has testified that he was present with
2 M r. K ovar at the training facility. Y ou're aware
3 o f that, correct?
4
A. No.
5
Q. Y ou're not aw are o f that.
6
Mr. Vosdingh did not say to you at
7 any tim e, "I review ed the testim ony o f M r. Kovar's
8 co-w orker at the training facility and I disagree
9 w ith w hat he said?"
10
A. No.
11
Q. W hat w ere M r. Kovar's responsibilities
12 at the M issouri plant based on your understanding?
13
A. He started o ff as a plant superintendent,
14 and then he w as promoted to plant manager.
15
Q. W hat's your understanding o f the
16 difference between those tw o jobs?
17
A. M y understanding is the plant m anager at
18 the time. The plant m anager w as king o f the plant.
19 H e w as responsible for everything, purchasing, you
20 know, everything.
21
The plant superintendent would have
22 had a night forem an and a day forem an w ho would
23 have been reporting to him on the m anufacturing
24 operations.
25
Q. W hat are those understandings based
12 (Pages 45 to 48)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 49
Page 51
1 upon?
2
A . Interview s w ith R ich W iddow son and
3 B ill V osdingh.
4
Q. Is that the sole source o f your
5 inform ation on the difference betw een those tw o
6 jobs?
7
A . It is.
8
Q. D o you know w hen M r. K ovar becam e
9 plant m anager?
10
A . I don't know the year.
11
Q. Previously you discussed the fact that
12 there w as a safety officer at the M issouri plant
13 w hen M r. K ovar w as there.
14
A . Y es.
15
Q . It's a fem ale. Y o u ju s t d o n 't rem em b er
16 the nam e?
17
A. Correct.
18
Q. H ave you seen any correspondence
19 betw een that safety personnel individual and
2 0 M r. K ovar?
21
A . I don't think so.
22
Q . T o your know ledge none exist, correct?
23
A. I have not seen it in the documents
24 produced.
25
Q. D o you know w hat M r. K ovar did after he
1 prior to this m orning?
2
A. No.
3
Q. To your know ledge, w as M r. K ovar a
4 m edical doctor?
5
A. N ot to m y know ledge.
6
Q. W as he a scientist?
7
A. N ot to m y know ledge.
8
Q. D id he have a degree in engineering?
9
A. I don't know.
10
Q. W as he an industrial hygienist?
11
A. I don't know.
12
Q. N othing to indicate he was a
13 m ineralogist, correct?
14
A. I have not seen any docum ents that depict
1 5 him as a m ineralogist.
16
Q. L et's talk about T opic A in the
17 deposition notice.
18
A. Okay.
19
Q. T hat's th e use o f asbestos at th e plants.
20
B ased upon your review o f m aterials
21 in this case, w ould you agree that asbestos m olding
22 com pounds w ere used by Square D for decades to
23 m anufacture, at a m inim um , electrical circuit
24 breakers?
25
A. T hat's a general question. I can respond
Page 50
Page 52
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 i______
left the Colum bia plant? A. I do not. Q. D o you know when he left the Columbia
plant? A. I can't recall. Q. Did he ever come back to the Columbia
plant in a professional capacity, m eaning a job at the M issouri plant?
A. I don't know. Q. Y ou have indicated that you kind o f skim m ed through the three co-w orker depos in this case, correct? A. Yes. Q. W ould you agree that these depositions describe M r. Kovar as a hands-on employee? A. I did not com e to that conclusion m yself. Q. W hat conclusion did you com e to? A. I didn't see that m uch in there about M r. K ovar. I saw m ore in there about other topics. Q. D id you see any testim ony at all describing Mr. Kovar him self taking bags o f asbestos m olding com pounds at the training facility him self and dum ping them into hoppers? A. I did not. Q. Has anyone told you about that testimony
1 to C edar Rapids and M issouri, but I'm not fam iliar
2 w ith w hat occurred in other places.
3
Q. All I w ant to know about are Cedar Rapids
4 and M issouri. Sorry. I should have m ade the
5 question clearer.
6
If w e lim it that question to
7 Cedar Rapids and M issouri, what would your answer
8 be?
9
A. It's my understanding that C edar Rapids
10 used asbestos m olding m aterials as early as the
11 1950s; and w e have established that they stopped
12 using asbestos m aterials in about 1980, 1981 tim e
13 frame.
14
And C olum bia, M issouri, it's a little
15 less clear. They started the plant asbestos free.
16 A t som e point in tim e they introduced asbestos, and
17 then it w as then phased out betw een '81 and '85.
18
Q. W hy do you believe that the M issouri
19 plant was started asbestos free?
20
A. In the docum ents that I reviewed,
21 there -- as they w ere preparing, setting up the
22 plant, it w as stated that the plant would be opened
23 up as an asbestos free plant; and then there was
24 som e later docum ents that said that they needed to
25 use an asbestos ~ a m olding com pound that used
13 (Pages 49 to 52)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 25
Page 53
Page 55
asbestos because the asbestos free one was not
1 o f asbestos?
meeting som e technical specifications.
2
A . C an you state that again, please?
Q. Do the docum ents you reviewed actually
3
Q. Sure.
indicate that at one point in the late 1970s,
4
H ave you seen any docum ents in your
specifically 1979, that the plant actually was
5 review o f this case that indicate that the m olding
asbestos free, or do the docum ents indicate that
6 com pounds used by Square D at C edar Rapids and in
the intention was to m ake the plant asbestos free?
7 M issouri contained differing fiber types in the
A. The docum ents clearly state the intention
8 com pounds them selves?
was to be asbestos free. And there w as a
9
A. I'm not sure. I saw references to
subsequent docum ent that said w e need to introduce 10 d ifferent fiber types, and I did not m ake the
asbestos.
11 com parison.
Q. Have you seen any docum ents this morning
12
Q. D o you agree that if a com pany is asking
that w ould indicate that asbestos m olding com pounds
13 its em ployees to w ork w ith and around asbestos
were delivered to the Square D Columbia, M issouri
14 m olding pow ders and asbestos m olding com pounds it
plant in 1978?
15 has a duty to protect its em ployees from asbestos
A. I have not.
1 6 inhalation to the m axim um extent possible?
Q. W e'll get to that later.
17
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
D oes Square D agree th at asbestos is
18
TH E W ITNESS: So I agree that as an
a recognized carcinogen?
19
em ployer w e're required to provide a safe and
A. Um , I'm sure Square D agrees with
20
healthy workplace to the fullest extent
w hatever is in the regulations. I'm not sure how
21
possible.
it's categorized in the regulations as a
22 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
carcinogen. I'm not sure.
23
Q. Thank you.
Q. W hat is a carcinogen?
24
Y ou're an environm ental health and
A. Som ething that is known or suspected o f
2 5 safety m anager, correct?
Page 54
Page 56
causing cancer, I believe. I'm not a toxicologist. Q. O kay. D o you feel th at asbestos is a
recognized cancer-causing agent as a health professional?
A . I am not a m edical doctor, and I know th at it causes certain diseases, and I d on't know if those are considered cancer.
Q. Is m esotheliom a cancer to your know ledge?
A. I don't know . Q . Y ou d on't know . O kay.
D oes Square D agree that all asbestos fiber types are dangerous and can cause cancer, if you know?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form . Go ahead.
T H E W IT N E S S: I'm n o t sure S quare D h as tak en a stance on that. I'm n o t sure if Square D know s about all asbestos fibers. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. D o you know w hat asbestos - strike that.
H ave you seen any docum ents to indicate that the m olding com pounds used at the C ed ar R apids facility and th e facilities in C olum bia, M issouri contained different fiber types
1
A. Correct.
2
Q. Do you think the duty that we just
3 discussed rises to the level o f a m oral obligation?
4
MR. ZUKOW SKI: Object to the form.
5
Beyond the scope.
6
TH E W ITNESS: I'm not sure I can
7
answer.
8
MR. ZUKOW SKI: You go ahead. You can
9
answer.
10
THE W ITNESS: I think a m oral obligation
11
is not a factual --I'm not sure w hat a moral
12
obligation is. Y our m orals and m y m orals,
13
other people have different morals, but I
14
agree that as an employer we need to provide
15
our w orkers w ith a health and safe --healthy
16
and safe work environment.
17 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
18
Q. Do you have an appreciation for the
19 amount by weight o f asbestos molding compounds used
20 by Square D at the Cedar Rapids plant from 1958
21 through 1978?
22
A. I'm not aw are o f the quantities used.
23
MR. BAUM STARK: M ike, I think you already
24
have w hat I'm going to m ark as Exhibit 5 to
25
the depo.
14 (Pages 53 to 56) POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ^ 24 1 25
Page 57
Page 59
(W hereupon, P lain tiffs E xhibit
1
N o. 5 w as m arked for
2
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
3
M S. N E W T O N : T his is A lex a N ew ton. I'm
4
gonna go ahead and place an objection on the
5
reco rd as to fo u ndation, hearsay, and th is is
6
a confidential docum ent sent to plain tiffs
7
counsel and expected to be kept confidential.
8
M R. B A U M STA R K : A nd our response for
9
th e reco rd is th at th is is a letter from
10
P lenco's counsel, and it w as sent in receipt
11
or in answ er to our attem pt to resolve letter
12
and our m otion to com pel; and th at Plenco w as 1 3
supposed to have answ ers to these --our
14
discovery responses last Friday. T hey have
15
not done that.
16
I h av e g o t no ch o ice bu t to use it.
17
It is n o t a settlem en t discussion. W e're n o t
18
w a iv in g an y th in g b y u sin g it.
19
M S. N EW TO N : T he letter speaks for
20
itself w ith regards to w hat you say.
21
C an I have a running objection to
22
the -- or do you w ant m e to object to every
23
q u e stio n ?
24
M R . B A U M S T A R K : D o n 't o b ject to every 2 5
Page 58
Let m e direct your attention to P laintiffs 5, and the third page, if you could look at the third page?
A . C an I go get m y glasses? Q. A bsolutely.
M R. BA U M STA RK : D o you w ant to take a quick break?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: Take a quick break. M R . B A U M S T A R K : T hat's fine. T H E V ID E O G R A P H E R : T he tim e is 11:03. W e're o ff th e record.
(A short break was taken.) T H E V ID E O G R A P H E R : T he tim e is approxim ately 11:11 a.m . W e're back on the record. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. M iss R edfield, we took a quick break. L et m e restate m y question.
Y ou have got in front o f you w hat's been m arked as P lain tiffs 5; is th at right?
A. Yes. Q . A nd th at is a letter dated June 3rd to m e from counsel for Plastics E ngineering Com pany. Is that w hat it appears to be? A. A ssu m ing that's w h o D an iel D on oh ue is.
Page 60
question. I'll give you a running objection.
1
Q. R ight.
M S. NEW TON: Thank you.
2
A . R ight.
M R . Z U K O W S K I: I'll th ro w in an objection
3
Q. A nd do you see on the first page o f the
th at it's n o t one o f o u r docum ents to the
4 letter w here it says Interrogatories, L etter A,
extent she can answer.
5 Interrogatory N o. 5?
M R. BAUM STARK: Okay.
6
A. U h-hum . Y es.
M R . Z U K O W SK I: I'm no t sure w h at you're
7
Q. Thank you.
going to use it for. Probably sim ilar
8
It says, "See enclosed sales charts.
foundation objections, bu t I'll ju s t throw in
9 T he enclosed sales charts reflect all Plenco sales
m y objection as well.
1 0 to Square D in C edar R apids, Iow a from 1958 to
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
1 1 1978;" is th at correct?
Q. Before we talk about Plaintiffs 5, have
12
A. Yes.
you seen any docum ents before looking at
13
Q. A nd it attaches a chart.
Plaintiffs 4 indicating that a m olding com pound
14
A. Yes.
identified as Plenco 509 or Plenco 509 B lack w ere
15
Q . A n d th at's m arked in th e bottom ,
used at C edar Rapids?
1 6 rig h t-h an d c o m e r B a te s stam p ed K o v a r 1, tru e ?
A . I have seen in our docum ents I have seen
17
A . C orrect.
references to Plenco 509 products. T here is m ore 1 8
Q . A nd at th e to p o f th e chart, there's a
than one.
1 9 listing for the product, and it says
Q. Do you recall looking at a docum ent that
2 0 asbestos-containing 509 Black.
stood for the proposition that at one point
21
A. U h-hum . Y es.
Square D was using in the neighborhood o f 190,000 2 2
Q . A nd it goes from 1958 to 1978, fair?
pounds a m onth o f Plenco 509 at C edar R apids?
23
A . It does w ith a gap in '61.
A. I don't recall that docum ent.
24
Q . A ccording to P lenco's records and based
Q. Fair enough.
2 5 upon this chart, no asbestos-containing com pounds
15 (Pages 57 to 60)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 61
Page 63
1 w ere delivered or provided to S quare D in
2 C edar R apids in 1958 or 1961, fair?
3
M R . ZU K O W SK I: A gain objection. It
4
calls for h er to speculate on w hat the records
5
are.
6
M R . B A U M S T A R K : I'm ju s t asking her
7
w hat the chart says.
8
TH E W ITN ESS: The chart does not
9
indicate anything in -- from Plenco to
10
S quare D C ed ar R ap id s in '58 o r '61.
11
M R . ZU K O W SK I: A nd ju st another
12
objection on th e foundation. I th in k -- I'm
13
assum ing this chart is sum m arizing the
14
d o cu m en ts, b u t I'm n o t sure w h a t th is is
15
sum m arizing. I realize it's n o t y o u r chart.
16
M R . B A U M S T A R K : It's not.
17 BY M R. BAUM STARK:
18
Q. Just looking at the chart,
1 9 M iss R edfield --
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. --for m any o f the years betw een 1964
2 2 and 1978, according to Plenco, P lenco delivered
2 3 asbestos-containing 509 B lack on a yearly basis in
24 excess o f 1 m illion pounds.
25
A . I'm sorry. I'm an engineer. I don't see
1 preparation for this case.
2
A. Correct.
3
Q. I f m y m ath is also correct, this m eans
4 that Plenco delivered in this 20-year period just
5 under 15,000 tons o f asbestos-containing m olding
6 compounds, correct?
7
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Object to the form to
8
the extent it calls for assum ptions and
9
speculations o f counsel.
10
M S. N EW TO N : I'll join.
11
MR. ZUKOW SKI: Y ou can answer.
12
TH E W ITN ESS: I'm sorry, you said
13
w h at?
14 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
15
Q. 29 m illion pounds, or just under
16 30 m illion pounds is ju st under 15,000 tons.
17
A. Okay.
18
Q. Does that sound accurate to you?
19
A. Yes.
20
Q. Y ou don't have a problem w ith that?
21
A. No.
22
Q. I f that's accurate, does that quantity o f
23 asbestos-containing m olding com pounds surprise you?
24
A. No.
25
Q. H ave you read any prior depositions in
Page 62
Pa ge 64
1 units on the chart. D oes it indicate it's pounds?
1 cases other than M r. K ovar's taken o f Square D
2 I'm a units person.
2 workers or employees who described the Cedar Rapids
3
Q. I don't know if it dose.
3 plant as the largest asbestos m olding com pound
4
A. It doesn't say the units so --there are
4 plant in the nation?
5 num bers here.
5
A. No.
6
Q . Let's assum e it's pounds for the purposes
6
Q. That would be news to you.
7 o f m y question.
7
A. Yes.
8
A. Okay.
8
Q. M iss Redfield, I'm going to m ark as
9
Q. A re you able to do that? I added up the
9 Plaintiffs Exhibit 6. For the record, the Bates
1 0 num bers. Y ou don't have a calculator. I'm not
10 stam p is Square D K ovar 13069.
1 1 expecting you to do that.
11
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
12
I f m y calculator is correct and the
12
No. 6 was m arked for
1 3 sales chart that w e're discussing is correct and
13
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
14 the unit is pounds, it appears to m e that Plenco
14 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
15 for this 20-year period delivered ju st under
15
Q. Could you identify that docum ent?
16 30 m illion pounds o f asbestos m olding com pounds to 16
A. It's a docum ent from -- I get these
17 the Square D facility in C edar Rapids.
17 confused in these mem os. I think it's from
18
D oes that appear to be w hat's
18 H itchcock to Denny about the use o f -- about
19 reflected in this sales chart?
19 em ission standards for pollutants, asbestos,
20
A. If the units on this chart are pounds
20 beryllium and M ercury dated M arch 29,1973.
2 1 and your addition is correct, then it adds up to
21
Q. Have you seen this docum ent before this
2 2 30 m illion.
22 morning?
23
Q. A nd Plenco is one supplier o f
23
A. Yes, I have.
24 asbestos-containing m olding com pounds that you saw 24
Q. Y ou recognize it as a Square D document?
2 5 m entioned in the records you review ed in
25
A. I do.
16 (Pages 61 to 64)
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 25
Page 65
Page 67
Q. A few questions for you. A t the top of
1
the memo it says, "To DM ." Do you see that?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. Do you know what D M stands for?
4
A. I would be speculating.
5
Q. It says, "From W M ," Any idea what W M
6
means?
7
A. I don't know what W M means.
8
Q. The memo indicates, "Attention
9
C.W . Denny III."
10
A. Correct.
11
Q. W ho was Mr. Denny III, if you know?
12
A. I would have to check the org charts. I
13
think he m ay have been a plant m anager, but I'm not 14
sure.
15
Q. W as he the plant manager at Cedar Rapids
16
at that time if you know?
17
A. That sounds correct.
18
Q. Do you know if Mr. Denny eventually
19
became the CEO o f Square D?
20
A. I m ay have heard that.
21
Q. He did become the CEO o f Square D,
22
didn't he?
23
A. Yeah, I think I heard that. I don't --I
24
don't know when that was.
25
Page 66
A. Yes. Q. It's not exact, but w ould this m em o seem to support the sales chart that we discussed in Plaintiffs No. 5? A. Okay.
M R. ZUKOW SKI: O bject to form. Go ahead.
THE W ITNESS: Okay. I have not done the m ath. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. B ut it looks in the ballpark, doesn't it?
M S. NEW TO N : O bject to form. Speculation. Foundation.
TH E W ITN ESS: This is one year. BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. Right. A. So, I m ean, I w ould w ant to do som e m ath to see if it m atches up w ith w hat --and this is use versus sales, so there can som etim es be a difference there, but I don't know . I haven't done the m ath, so I don't know if it supports it or not. I haven't seen anything, you know , converting this to that. Q. 12 m onths in a year? A. Right.
Page 68
Q. W ho w as M r. H itchcock, if you know ? A . I don't know . Q. N o idea? A . I don't know . Q. Is it fair to say that P lain tiffs N o. 6 lists four asbestos-containing m olds and their respective use on a pounds-per-m onth basis, correct? A. Yes. Q . A nd four are listed.
M R . ZU K O W SK I: Is that a question? BY MR. BAUM STARK:
Q. A re four listed in the m em o? A . F ou r are listed.
M R. BAUM STARK: Thank you. BY MR. BAUM STARK:
Q . D urez 23639, correct? A . Yes. Q. A t 30,000 pounds a m onth? A . Yes. Q. R ogers 368 at 22,000 pounds per m onth? A . Yes. Q . Plenco 509 at 190,000 pounds per m onth?
1
Q. Correct?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. 12 tim es 190,000 by m y calculator is
4 2,280,000. Does that sound fair?
5
A. That looks about right then.
6
Q. So Plaintiffs 6 does tend to support the
7 accuracy o f the sales chart in Plaintiffs 5, at
8 least as to the year 1973?
9
A. Correct.
10
Q. Thank you.
11
The paragraph right after the
12 com pound designation o f m onthly usage by pounds
13 indicates that --
14
A. There's a typo.
15
Q. There is a typo. I w anted to talk to you
1 6 about that. That's m y question. Y ou anticipated
17 m y question.
18
It refers to Rogers 468, correct?
19
A. Correct.
20
Q. Do you know if there was a compound
2 1 Rogers 368?
22
A. I don't know if there was a compound
2 3 R ogers 368, but that's the only place in the
24 docum ents that I reviewed that I saw the reference
2 5 to 368.
17 (Pages 65 to 68)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 69
Page 71
1
Q. Y ou have seen several references in the
1 that, "The com pounds containing encapsulated
2 docum ents to Rogers 468?
2 asbestos fibers probably w ould not release exposed
3
A. Correct.
3 asbestos fibers into the atm osphere during norm al
4
Q. Looking at this m em o, it seem s apparent
4 handling procedures. B ut w hen parts o f these
5 to you that the typo is with Rogers 368.
5 materials are machined, filed or abraded in any
6
A. It seem s like there's a typo.
6 w ay, th en there is a potential o f releasing exposed
7
Q. I w anted to know w hat the com pany's
7 asbestos fibers into the atm osphere."
8 position is on a com m ent here. I'm going to read
8
D id I read that correctly?
9 it to you, and tell m e, please, if I read it
9
A . T hat's w h at it says.
10 correctly.
10
Q. L et m e show you w hat I have --or I will
11
"The first tw o o f the above
1 1 m ark as P la in tiffs 7.
12 m aterials, D urez 23639 and Rogers 468, are term ed
12
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
13 long fiber m aterial. The fibers o f these are
13
N o. 7 was m arked for
14 basically not encapsulated. The other tw o
14
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
15 m aterials contain B akelite short fibers w hich are
15 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
16 considered to be encapsulated. There is a
16
Q. A n d I'll ask yo u if you recognize that.
17 reasonable degree o f certainty that the handling
17
A. Okay. Thank you.
18 and m achining o f the long fiber m aterials w ill
18
Q. Y ou're w elcom e.
1 9 release uncapsulated asbestos fibers into the
19
D o you recognize the docum ent?
2 0 atm osphere."
20
A. I d on 't recognize this one, b ut it
21
D id I read that correctly?
21 appears that it w as produced as part o f our
22
A. Yes.
22 docum ent production.
23
Q. W hat is the significance o f this phrase
23
Q. It has a B ates stam p in the lower,
24 long fiber m aterial, if you know ?
2 4 right-hand com er o f 9135.
25
A. I w ould be m aking an assum ption because 2 5
A. Correct.
Page 70
Page 72
1 in the regulations there w as a designation betw een
1
2 fibers that w ere five m icrons in length and fibers
2
3 that were shorter than that. That would be my
3
4 assum ption, but I shouldn't be assum ing.
4
5
Q. Y ou're talking about regulations in
5
6 effect at the tim e o f the memo?
6
7
A. Correct.
7
8
Q. A nd w hat is your feeling on w hat those
8
9 regulations said, if any?
9
10
A. It's my understanding that w hen these
10
11 asbestos regulations first cam e out there was a
11
12 focus on fibers that w ere 5 m icrons in length or
12
13 greater.
13
14
Q. Do you know whether or not D urez 23639
14
15 contained crocidolite asbestos fibers?
15
16
A. I don't know w hat fibers w ere in the
16
17 various products.
17
18
Q. So if I asked you about any o f the fiber
18
19 types in any o f these products, you w ould not want
19
20 to com m ent on that?
20
21
A. I w ouldn't. I would have to go back to,
21
22 you know, docum ents, if there were any documents. 2 2
2 3 I can't recall specifically w hat fibers w ere in
23
- l 24 w hat products.
24
25
Q. That sam e paragraph goes on to state
25
1_____
Q. A nd this appears to be a m em o dated February 21st, 1991.
A. Yes. Q. To a gentlem an nam ed John K atzbeck at S quare D 's office in C olum bia, S outh C arolina. A. Y es. Q. In the m iddle o f the docum ent D urez 23639 is listed, correct? A. Yes. Q. A nd according to O xyC hem , or D urez, that particular com pound contains 36 percent crocidolite, 18 percent chrysotile, fair? A. Yes. Q. I m ay have asked you this question already, b u t I'm going to ask it again because I can 't rem em b er if I did.
D oes Square D contend or believe th at crocidolite is a m ore potent carcinogen than c h ry s o tile ?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form . B eyond the scope.
G o ahead and answ er. T H E W IT N E SS: Square D is not know ledgeable as to the various effects o f the different types o f asbestos fibers.
18 (Pages 69 to 72)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ' 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Page 73
Page 75
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
1
Q. They w eren't know ledgeable back then,
2
or they w eren't --or they aren't know ledgeable
3
today?
4
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Same objections.
5
TH E W ITN ESS: I can't speculate w hat
6
they knew.
7
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
8
Q. I'll show you w hat I'll m ark as
9
P lain tiffs 8.
10
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
11
No. 8 was m arked for
12
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
13
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Is this m y copy?
14
M R. BAUM STARK: Yes. I gave A nthony a
15
copy o f this earlier.
16
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Can I w rite on this?
17
MR. BAUM STARK: Y ou m ay do anything you 18
w ish w ith that.
19
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Okay.
20
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
21
Q. P laintiffs 8, Je ff K ovar versus Rogers
22
Corporation in the upper, left-hand com er,
23
correct?
24
A. Yes.
25
Page 74
Q. A nd these are D efendant R ogers
1
C orp o ratio n 's A n sw ers to P la in tiffs
2
Interrogatories?
3
A. Yes.
4
Q. C ould you turn to Page 7 o f 17? I think
5
I red tabbed it for you.
6
A. Yes.
7
Q. A nd th en the question is, "B etw een 1958
8
and 1978, did you or any predecessor entity sell or
9
deliver any m aterial or products to the Square D
10
facility located in C edar R apids, Iow a? "
11
Is that the question?
12
A . Q uestion N o. 10?
13
Q . R ight.
14
A. Y es.
15
Q. A n d on P age 9 o f 17 th ere is a chart,
16
c o rre c t?
17
A . T h e r e 's a c h a r t o n P a g e 9 .
18
Q. R ight. A g ain y o u d o n 't h av e a
19
calculator, right?
20
A . C orrect. I do not have a calculator.
21
Q. I'll represent to you th at I w en t thro u g h
22
the chart w ith m y calculator ~
23
A. Okay.
24
Q. -- and did som e m ath.
25
A ccording to this chart, Rogers supplied to the C edar R apids facility a com pound know n as R X -462 betw een the years 1960 and 1978 in the am ount o f 1,052,050 pounds.
M R . Z U K O W SK I: I'm ju st going to object. I don't see th at reference to R X -462.
T H E W ITN ESS: C an you state that again? M R. B A U M STA R K : It started in 1971 if you look at the chart. It starts in 1971, '72, '73, '74, '75, 7 6 , 7 7 and 7 8 all have R X -462. TH E W ITN ESS: Yes. M R . Z U K O W S K I: Y o u r q u e stio n w as '60. T hat's w hat confused m e. M R. BAUM STARK: Okay. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q . A gain I'll rep resen t to y o u th a t I have done the m ath. A nd if this chart is accurate, Rogers supplied over a 1 m illion pounds o f RX -462 to the C edar R apids plant. W ould you agree? A. Yes. M R. ZU K O W SK I: Just object to the extent you're asking h er to agree w ith your m ath. T H E W IT N E SS: Y es, this is the pounds
Page 76
sold. I like it. It has units. BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. A nd if w e did the m ath, that w ould com e out to 526 tons.
A. I f -- okay. Q. I f I'm rig h t w ith m y m ath -- A. Okay. Q . -- it's 526 tons. D o es th a t look in the ballpark to you? A . U m , 1,000 poun d s did you say -- I m ean, a 1 m illion pounds? Q. R ight. It com es out to 526 tons w hen I use m y calculator. A. A bout 500 tons. Q. R ight. D o you know w hether or not R X -462 w as a crocidolite-containing asbestos o f m olding com pound? A . I do not. Q . A n d again, at least as far as y ou're concerned, Square D does not take a position on w hether or not crocidolite is m ore harm ful, m ore dangerous or a m ore potent carcinogen than c h ry s o tile ?
M R . Z U K O W SK I: O bjection. B eyond the scope.
19 (Pages 73 to 76)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ^ 24 , 25
Page 77
Page 79
T H E W IT N E S S : I d id n 't s e e a n y th in g . I
1
didn't see anything in o u r docum ents th at had
2
descriptions o f specific asbestos fibers and
3
w hether or not they had different effects on
4
hum an health or the environm ent.
5
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
6
Q. A nd R ogers' asbestos-containing com pound
7
discussed in P la in tiffs 6 is a different num ber as
8
R ogers 468, correct?
9
A . C orrect. R ogers 468. 468.
10
Q . A n d y o u d on't k n o w w h eth er o r n o t
11
R X -468 contained 54 percent chiysotile fibers?
12
A . I do not know that.
13
Q. D id Square D ever use raw asbestos fiber
14
at th e C ed ar R apids plant, th e train in g facility in
15
M issouri or the C olum bia, M issouri plant?
16
A . I am not aw are o f that.
17
Q. A re you aw are that Square D at one tim e
18
o r at one o r m ore plants didn't use raw asbestos
19
fiber in its m anufacturing process?
20
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection, beyond the
21
scope.
22
Go ahead.
23
T H E W IT N E S S : I'm n o t aw are o f that.
24
25
Page 78
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
1
No. 9 was m arked for
2
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
3
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
4
Q. I'll show you w hat I have m arked as
5
P la in tiffs E xhibit N o. 9.
6
I'll ask y ou to identify th at
7
docum ent.
8
A. O kay. T his is a m em o from B. W oito to
9
C .W . D enny III from January 9th, 1980; subject, 10
asbestos in m olding pow der.
11
Q. A nd it's B ates stam ped?
12
A. A nd it ccd A shley -- C. A shley,
13
C. Junttila and B. V osdingh.
14
Q. W e have already talked about the fact
15
that you have talked to M r. V osdingh --
16
A. Yes.
17
Q. --in preparation for this case,
18
correct?
19
A. Yes.
20
Q. This is B ates stam ped 12822, right?
21
A. 12822, yes.
22
Q. This is a Square D docum ent?
23
A . It is.
24
Q . It's b een p ro d u ced in this case?
25
A. Y es. Q. W e have already talked about the fact th a t y o u do n 't k now w h at D M stands for. A. C orrect. Q. W hat about M E? A . I w ould be speculating. Q. W ho w as M r. W oito, if you know ? A . 1 am not sure. Q. D o you know M r. or M rs. A shley? A . I do n ot know A sh ley or Junttila. Q. D o you know w hat PS stands for other th an p o st script, w h ich I do n 't th in k is th e m eaning in this m em o? A . I w ou ld speculate that it stands for plant superintendent. Q. W h at is th at speculation based on? A . T hese initials seem to be relating to the titles o f th e individuals involved. Q. Is P lain tiffs 9 your -- strike that.
Is P lain tiffs 9 the basis for your opinion or b elief that the C edar R apids plant w ent quote-unquote asbestos free in 1980?
A . It is. Q. Is it the sole support for th at b elief or opinion?
Page 80
A. I think there may be another document in the file that indicates --I can't rem em ber if this was a Square D document - - 1 mean, a Cedar Rapids document or a M issouri document, but there m ight be one in the file that indicates that in 1981 there was no asbestos in Cedar Rapids.
Q. So it could have been '80, it could have been '81?
A. Correct. Q. W hat is an inline press? A. I'm not sure. Q. Do you recall a discussion or description o f an inline press in any o f the depositions taken in this case? A. I d on't know w h at an inline press is. Q. Do you know what a manual press is? A. I'm not sure. Q. Do you know what an automatic press is? A. No. Q. Do you know what a preform --sorry.
Was the answer no? A. Yes, the answer was no. Q. Do you know what a preform machine is or was? A. Not exactly.
20 (Pages 77 to 80)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 81
Page 83
1
Q. D o you know if inline presses w ere used
2 at the C olum bia, M issouri plant w hen it opened?
3
A. I do not know.
4
Q. I w ant you to assum e that they w ere for
5 the purposes o f m y question.
6
D o you know o f any reason w hy a
7 G E m olding pow der or m olding com pound th at is
8 asbestos free w ould w ork in an inline press in the
9 C edar R apids plant but not w ork in an inline press
1 0 in that C olum bia, M issouri plant?
11
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form . It
12
assum es facts.
13
Go ahead.
14
TH E W ITN ESS: I do not know w hy
15
som ething that w orked at C edar R apids w ould
16
not w ork in M issouri.
17 BY M R. BAUM STARK:
18
Q . M r. V o sd in g h d id n 't enlight- -- strike
19 that.
20
M r. V osdingh did not tell you
2 1 anything in his discussions w ith you th at w ould
22 help you answ er that question?
23
A . H e did not.
24
Q. M r. W iddow son did not tell you anything
25 in his discussions w ith you about this case that
1 Lexington?
2
A. I don't know.
3
Q. H ave you seen any docum ents referring to
4 M r. D utton as the product liability person w ithin
5 Square D?
6
A. I don't recall seeing those.
7
Q. P aragraph 4 I'm going to read it to you,
8 and let m e know if I have m isread it or
9 m isrep re sen ted it.
10
"There is precious little
11 docum entation on w hen w e w ere asbestos free in our
12 m olding com pounds. I am sending a lab procedure
13 for C edar R apids that has som e guidelines for
14 return m aterials. The M issouri plant reports the
15 elim ination program w as com pleted in 1985.
1 6 C edar R apids beat th em a few years. L incoln is
17 still checking as I write."
18
D id I read that correctly?
19
A. Yes.
20
Q. D oes this docum ent serve as the factual
21 basis for your earlier testim ony that the M issouri
22 plant w ent asbestos free in 1985?
23
A. T his is one o f at least tw o docum ents
24 th at indicate that it w as asbestos free in 1985.
25
Q. Do you have any reason to disagree with
Page 82
Page 84
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
lL
would help you answer that question? A. H e did not. Q. I'm g oing to m ark P la in tiffs E x h ib it 10. (W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit N o. 10 w as m arked for Identification, 07/02/2014.) M R. B A U M STA R K : I'll give you a copy. MR. ZUKOW SKI: Thank you.
BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. I'll ask you to identify that docum ent if
you're able. A. This is an internal Square D m em o dated
January 22nd, 1991 to Jim D utton, Lexington from R ich NiccoIIs, C edar R apids ccing three people; subject, asbestos reinforced m olding com pounds.
Q. D o you know any o f the three individuals --pardon m e. Strike that.
Do you know any o f the five individuals who are referenced in this docum ent at the top o f the document?
A. I have seen R ich NiccoIIs on several other Cedar Rapids docum ents.
Q. D o you know who he was at Cedar Rapids? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know who Jim Dutton was at
1 that date as you sit here today?
2
A . I don't.
3
Q. Y ou haven't seen anything th at m akes you
4 think th at date is incorrect?
5
A . I have not.
6
Q. A re you able to tell us why today based,
7 upon the things you have review ed in this case, why
8 it took M issouri five years m ore than it took
9 C edar R apids -- or four years if C edar R apids did
1 0 n o t get rid o f asb esto s co m p o u n d s un til '81, w hy
1 1 did it take M issouri five or four years longer than
12 C edar Rapids?
13
A. I don't know.
14
Q. Y ou have no explanation for that?
15
A . I do not.
16
Q. H ave you seen any docum ents that
17 discuss or describe the am ount o f asbestos m olding
18 com pounds used at the C olum bia training facility in
19 1978 or 1979?
20
A. I have not seen docum ents that --
21 about that.
22
Q. Okay. Y ou understand that
2 3 M r. R onald A nderson did testify to that in this
24 case?
25
A . I w as not aw are o f that.
21 (Pages 81 to 84)
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 4, 2 4 i 25
Page 85
Page 87
Q. Y ou haven't review ed his testim ony
1
A. I'm not sure w ho he was.
regarding the training facility in Columbia?
2
Q. A nd the B ates stam p o f this letter is
A. Correct.
3 Square D 705 and 706, fair?
Q. Does Square D have any idea how many
4
A. Yes.
pounds or tons o f asbestos molding powders or
5
Q. Thank you.
compounds were used at the Colum bia plant from 1979
6
In R o m an N u m eral II, S u b p arag rap h 1,
to 1985?
7 it talks about Rogers 468.
A. I --there m ay be som e docum ents in the
8
A. It does.
file sim ilar to the ones that w e have produced for
9
Q. Fair?
Cedar Rapids, but I'm not sure w hat those num bers 10
A. Yes.
are.
11
Q. A nd the general gist o f this m em o in
Q. Okay. Y ou remem ber Plaintiffs 5, which
12 R om an N um eral I and R om an N um eral II is that as
is the letter from Plenco's attorney?
13 o f October 5th, 1979 the M issouri plant --the
M S. N EW TO N : I'll renew m y objections.
14 Colum bia, M issouri plant is not asbestos free.
MR. BAUMSTARK: You have got a
15
A. That's correct.
standing objection.
16
Q. Does this m em o indicate the problem s that
THE W ITNESS: The Plenco chart?
17 the M issouri plant is facing trying to go asbestos
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
18 free?
Q. The Plenco chart.
19
A. Yes. They're undergoing testing.
A. Yes.
20
Q. A nd again you're not sure w hy
Q. I believe the last page o f that, or the
21 asbestos-free com pounds would w ork in Cedar Rapids
second --the page after the chart on Cedar Rapids
22 and not in Columbia, M issouri?
talks about Colum bia, M issouri.
23
A. I do not know why.
A. Correct.
24
M R. ZU K O W SK I: I'll object. The
Q. A nd is that --is the Bates stam p K ovar 2
25
docum ent speaks for itself.
Page 86
Page 88
in the low er, right-hand corner? A. K ovar 2, yes. Q. Thank you. A ccording to Plenco, they delivered
455,100 pounds, if the m easurem ent listed in the ch art is pounds, betw een th e years o f 1979 and 1980, correct?
A . Y es. C orrect. Q . A gain if m y m ath is correct, th at w ould be 227 tons o f Plenco 509 B lack? A. T hat could be 227 tons.
M R. B A U M STA R K : Let m e m ark as P la in tif f s 11 a n o th e r d o c u m e n t a n d a sk y o u i f y ou're able to identify th a t for m e.
(W hereupon, P lain tiffs E xhibit N o . 11 w a s m a rk e d fo r Identification, 07/02/2014.) T H E W IT N E SS: See, this is a S quare D interoffice m em o from R .D . B oley in M issouri to C .W . D enny in C edar R apids dated O ctober 5th, 1979; subject, asbestos-free m olding m aterial. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. D o you know w ho M r. B oley w as at that tim e?
1 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
2
Q. Do you have any idea how long Rogers
3 Corporation asbestos m olding com pound RX-468 was
4 used in M issouri?
5
A. 468?
6
Q. Right.
7
A. Is it in here?
8
Q. It's not in the interrogatory response
9 from R ogers, I'll tell you that.
10
A. O kay. No, I'm not sure how long that
11 particular m olding material was used.
12
Q. Have you seen any docum ents in the
13 Square D docum ent production that discussed how
14 long that particular com pound was in use in
15 Columbia?
16
A. I'm sorry, can you repeat?
17
Q. Do you recall looking at any documents
18 that indicate how long that particular com pound was
19 used in Columbia?
20
A. In Colum bia?
21
Q. Right.
22
A. No.
23
Q. I'll hand you w hat I'm going to m ark as
24 P la in tiffs 12.
25
22 (Pages 85 to 88)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 89
Page 91
1
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
1 question?
2
N o. 12 was m arked for
2
A . "N o."
3
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
3
Q. N o. 3, the question was, "In w hat
4 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
4 operations are these m aterials being used?"
5
Q. I'll ask you if you're able to identify
5
A nd the answ er was, "M olding."
6 that docum ent.
6
A . Yes.
7
A. Y es. This is a single page that is --
7
Q. Okay. N o. 6 talks about, "M edical
8 a t th e title o f it is called U se o f A sb estos in
8 surveillance activities carried out regarding these
9 Square D C om pany O perations.
9 operations."
10
Q. W hat's th e date on it?
10
T he answ er w as, "No."
11
A. M ay 8th, 1981.
11
A . T he an sw er is no.
12
Q. A nd does that indicate that -- is that
12
Q. A nd N o. 7 is, "H ow are these w astes
1 3 a file stam p from corporate risk m anagem ent, is
1 3 disposed of?"
14 that w hat that looks like to you in the upper
14
A nd the answ er w as, "In a local
1 5 center --
1 5 landfill," correct?
16
A. Yes. I don't know if it's -- oh, yeah,
16
A. Yes.
17 risk m anagem ent. It says Square D C orporation, 1 7
Q. U nder the com m ents section --I w ant to
18 risk m anagem ent, correct.
18 read you the com m ents section, and you can tell m e
19
Q. Y ou previously indicated you w ere aw are
1 9 if I have read it correctly.
2 0 o f who M r. Cim ino was.
20
"I called M r. R obert R. Lee, m anager
21
A. Yes.
2 1 o f environm ental engineering w ith Rogers
22
Q. W hat w as his role again?
2 2 C orporation. H e inform ed m e that EPA did not
23
A. I believe he w as the corporate safety
2 3 consider this product as generating hazardous
2 4 officer for Square D.
2 4 w aste, and th at because the asbestos fiber is bound
25
Q. This docum ent --and this is Bates
2 5 airborne concentrations o f the fiber is
Page 90
Page 92
1 stam ped 8628 w as prepared by a Jean G am bino.
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. Do you know who
4 M r. or M rs. Jean G am bino w as?
5
A . So I believe Jean w as the safety
6 o fficer at th e p la n t a t M isso u ri. T h a t n am e is
7 w h at I recall from the conversations w ith
8 R ich W iddow son.
9
Q. So is th at the person w ho you previously
10 could not rem em ber their nam e?
11
A. Yes.
12
Q. T here are --w ell, th ere is a ch art on
13 this docum ent.
14
A . T h ere is a chart.
15
Q . A n d it's got 1 th ro u g h 7A , fair?
16
A . C orrect.
17
Q. A n d u n d er 1 th e question is, "H as
18 substitute m aterial been considered and
1 9 investigated," true?
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. A nd the answ er w as, "Yes?"
22
A. Yes.
23
Q. N o. 2, "H ave levels o f airborne
24 concentrations been scientifically m easured?"
25
A nd w hat w as the answ er to that
1 negligible."
2
A . T hat's w h at it w as.
3
Q. T his w ould b e in conflict --direct
4 conflict w ith the Square D internal m em orandum
5 dated M arch 29th o f 1973, fair?
6
A. I w ould have to check back --
7
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form .
8
T H E W ITN ESS: - and look at that.
9 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
10
Q. C an you find that for m e?
11
A . W h ich exh ib it w a s it?
12
Q. U nfo rtu n ately I d on't rem em ber.
13
M R. B ESH O R E: 6 ,1 believe.
14
TH E W ITN ESS: 6? Thank you.
15 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
16
Q. D o you have 6 in front o f you?
17
A. Y es.
18
Q. A nd 6 discusses the fact that
1 9 R ogers 468 is a long fiber unencapsulated product,
2 0 true?
21
A. It does at that tim e.
22
Q . D o you know w hat M s. G am bino did, or
2 3 w hat M r. C im ino did to investigate the truth o f the
2 4 statem ent that w as apparently m ade by
2 5 M r. R obert Lee?
23 (Pages 89 to 92)
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Page 93
Page 95
A. I don't know . Q. A s an environm ental health and safety professional, do you think it is good practice for a com pany using a potentially hazardous m aterial to sim ply rely on the products, m anufacturer or product salesm an in giving you accurate inform ation?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection, assum es facts.
Go ahead. T H E W ITN ESS: I think it is very com m on for us to rely on a supplier o f a m aterial to provide us inform ation about that m aterial. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. N o w I didn't ask you if it w as com m on. I asked you if you think that that is the best practice considering the fact that the com pound contains a know n and recognized carcinogen. M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form, assum es facts.
Go ahead. TH E W ITNESS: I think as far as a best practice goes, there are kind o f m ultiple ways to collect inform ation about a com pound in our
1
A. R elying on M aterial Safety D ata Sheets is
2 a com mon practice for us to use when w e're trying
3 to understand w hat is in a particular com pound that
4 is being supplied to us by a vendor.
5
Q. Should the inquiry end there in your
6 opinion?
7
A. I think that's kind o f a judgm ental call.
8
Q. Square D had inform ation indicating
9 previously that this product was not an
10 encapsulated product, correct?
11
A. There w as inform ation from --w hat is
12 it --eight years priorthat Jean may or may not
13 have had access to, I don't know. It could be that
14 there w ere changes in the product in eight years as
15 well. You know, I don't - - 1 can't speculate.
16
Q. You're not going to offer an opinion or a
17 feeling on w hether or not M iss Gam bino or
18 M r. Cimino should have done som ething further?
19
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Object, assum es facts.
20
Go ahead.
21
THE W ITNESS: I can't --at the tim e
22
this appears to be appropriate.
23 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
24
Q. In Item 2, "Have levels o f airborne
25 concentrations been scientifically m easured?" The
Page 94
Page 96
facilities. Som etim es w e'll interview suppliers,
som etim es w e'll collect M aterial Safety D ata Sheets. T his is before H A Z C O M , so H A Z C O M cam e into place in 1985 w hen it w ould have been m uch m ore com m on to have access to M aterial Safety D ata Sheets, so I think this w ould have probably been pretty close to best practice at the tim e. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. D o you think it w as best practice to sim ply rely on a M aterial Safety D ata Sheet in determ ining w hether o r n o t this p ro d u ct th at you're bringing in to your plant and exposing your w orkforce to is hazardous or not?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: Sam e objections. TH E W ITNESS: C an you say the question again? I'm sorry. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. Sure.
D o you think it is appropriate or best practice for a com pany like Square D to rely on a M aterial Safety D ata Sheet --
A . R elying on -- Q. -- w ithout further investigation?
1 an sw er is, "N o."
2
If O SH A at the tim e o f this m em o
3 knew that, w ould that be grounds for an O SH A
4 violation?
5
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bjection. C alls for
6
speculation.
7
Go ahead.
8
T H E W ITN ESS: So let m e ju st look at
9
this. So w e're saying th a t R ogers R X -468 ~
10 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
11
Q . W e k n o w it's an asbesto s-co n tain in g
12 compound --
13
A . R ight.
14
Q. -- ju st by virtue o f the --
15
A . R ight.
16
Q. - - o f th e docum ent, correct?
17
A . R ight. A nd by putting it on here w e're
1 8 saying th at it's still in use at th e tim e.
19
Q. A t the M issouri plant?
20
A. In 1981.
21
Q. O SH A required levels o f airborne
2 2 concentrations to be m easured, true?
23
A. Yes.
24
Q. A nd this m em o indicates they w ere not.
25
A. It does.
24 (Pages 93 to 96)
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Page 97
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Q. O SH A required in 1981 that m edical
1
surveillance activities be carried out regarding
2
these operations, correct?
3
A. That's my understanding.
4
Q. And they were not according to this
5
docum ent?
6
A. According to this document.
7
Q. Do you have any reason to believe that
8
this document is inaccurate as to Items 2 and 7?
9
A. I would want to go back and look more
10
carefully at the documents because I did review a
11
lot o f documents that had asbestos sampling
12
conducted, and I can't remember whether or not they 13
were Cedar Rapids or Missouri.
14
Q. Let m e represent to you I haven't seen
15
one dust measurement regarding anything occurring
16
in M issouri.
17
Have you, as you sit here today,
18
can you recall one document talking about a dust
19
measurement at the Columbia plant?
20
A. You know, I did review a lot of
21
documents. I had a lot o f samples collected, and I
22
can't recall whether or not they were all from one
23
o f the plants.
24
Q. As you sit here right now you can't
25
Page 98
A. A nd it has --yeah, it says M AC. Q. D o you have any idea w ho M A C is? A. I don't. Q. That's fine.
A nd this appears to be --I guess w e can call it a chart o f an asbestos survey co n d u c te d a t 11 S q u are D p lan ts, fair?
A. Yes. Q. Two o f the plants are Cedar Rapids and the M issouri plant. A. Yes. Q. Let's turn to P age 2, the top. That's w here the M issouri plant asbestos survey results -- A. Yes. Q. --are found, correct? A. Yes. Q. A nd the description I'm going to read to you --and you can tell m e if I have read it correctly. A. Yes. Q. "Asbestos in m olding o f breakers. M anufacturer states EPA does not consider hazardous w aste as generated. N o airborne level check. Yes, PPE and ventilation. W astes disposed o f in local landfill. U nclear as to w hether o r n o t it's
Page 100
recall? A . C orrect. Q . I'll hand y o u w hat I have m arked -- or
w h a t I w ill m ark as P la in tiffs 13 an d ag ain I'll ask you if you can identify the docum ent.
A. Thank you. (W hereupon, P la in tiffs E xhibit N o. 13 w as m arked for Id en tification , 07/02/2014.)
T H E W IT N E SS: T his docu m en t is not fam iliar to m e, bu t it looks like it w as p roduced. It's go t one o f o u r B ates nu m b ers on it. BY MR. BAUM STARK: Q. A n d th e B ates num bers th at you see in the upper, right-hand com er in this instance are 8655, 8666 and 8667, true? A. Yes. Q . A nd this docum ent is entitled R esults, A sbestos Survey. A. Yes. Q . A nd the last page o f the docum ent in the low er left com er says 8 o f 81, does it not? A. It does. Q. O kay. A n d M A C is the initial?
1 approved site."
2
H ave I read that correctly?
3
A. Yes.
4
Q. D oes this seem to generally jell or
5 conform to w hat w e ju st review ed in Plaintiffs 12?
6
A. It does. In fact --yes.
7
Q. T he one w ay it does not is that w hoever
8 w rote this asbestos survey results seem s to
9 indicate that it is not clear as to w hether or not
10 this w aste, this asbestos w aste, is getting dum ped
11 in an approved landfill?
12
A . A n d th e o th er ch art in d icates th a t it is
13 an approved w aste disposal site. T he first chart
14 indicates that the w astes are disposed o f at a
15 local landfill and it is an approved w aste disposal
16 site.
17
Q. A nd P lain tiffs 12 is dated?
18
A . M ay o f '81.
19
Q. A n d P la in tiffs 13 is dated A ugust o f
2 0 '81?
21
A. Correct.
22
Q. I w ant to show you w hat I'm going to
2 3 m ark as E xhibit 14.
24
A. Thank you.
25
25 (Pages 97 to 100)
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Page 101
Page 103
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
1
N o. 14 w as m arked for
2
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
3
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
4
Q. Y ou're w elcom e. C an you identify that
5
docum ent for me?
6
A. This is a form , U.S. E PA form titled
7
R eporting C om m ercial and Industrial U ses o f
8
A sbestos, and it appears that it is for the
9
C olum bia, M issouri plant com pleted by
10
R ich W iddow son, signed by R obert Boley
11
on A pril 27th, 1983.
12
Q. A nd M r. W iddowson, you had discussions
13
w ith him in this case, fair?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. W e have discussed those?
16
A. Yes.
17
Q. D o you know w hat a process engineer is
18
or w as at Square D at the tim e?
19
A . It's m y understanding he w orked in the
20
plating departm ent, but I don't know exactly w hat 2 1
a process engineer is.
22
Q. A nd in P aragraph 5, w hich is in
23
S ectio n A 1, R e sp o n d e n t Id e n tific a tio n , i f I'm
24
reading it correctly, is, "Record the total num ber
25
Page 102
Q. -- in January o f 1979, and this docum ent indicates asbestos has been in use for 4 1/2 years --
A. R ight. Q. - that w ould put us halfw ay through 1983, true, give or take? A. T rue, but if the plant opened in January o f '78 I don't know w hen it opened. Q. I'll rep resen t to you th at th e testim ony in this case is that the plant opened for business at the beginning o f 1979, okay? T hat's based upon the testim ony in the case.
I f that's true, if m y representation is correct, this docum ent w ould indicate that the M issouri plant w as never asbestos free, at least up and until 1983.
A. T his docum ent indicates that they're saying that either m anufacturing or processing o f asbestos has been in place for 4.5 years.
Q. A nd that w ould take us back to the beginning o f 1979, right?
A. It w ould. Q. Thank you.
M R . B A U M ST A R K : W e're going to change the tape, take a quick break.
Page 104
o f years during w hich the m anufacturers and/or
1
p ro c e ssin g
2
o f asbestos has been conducted at the reporting
3
site."
4
D oes that look like I read that
5
c o rre c tly ?
6
A . Yes.
7
Q . A n d th e an sw er is, "4.5 years," tru e?
8
A . Yes.
9
Q . So if w e look at w hen this w as signed,
10
w e look at the num ber o f years that asbestos has
11
been used at the plant --
12
A . U h-hum .
13
Q. --this docum ent w ould tend to indicate
14
th at the M issouri plant, w hen it opened in 1979,
15
w as never asbestos free, fair?
16
A . I d on't know --
17
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form .
18
Go ahead.
19
T H E W ITN ESS: --the date that the
20
p lan t opened. I d o n 't k n o w th e date th e p lan t
21
opened.
22
BY MR. BAUM STARK:
23
Q. If the plant opened for business --
24
A . R ight.
25
T H E V ID E O G R A P H E R : T he tim e is now 12:06 p .m . T h is is th e end o f M e d ia 1. W e are o ff the record.
(W hereupon, the deposition in the above-entitled cause w as continued to July 2, 2014 at 12:45 o 'clock p.m .)
26 (Pages 101 to 104)
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Page 105
Page 107
AFTERNOON SESSION
1 BY MR. BAUM STARK:
TH E V ID EO G RA PH ER: The tim e is now
2
Q. O kay. W ell, again, M iss R edfield, these
12:49 p.m . This is the beginning o f M edia 2.
3 docum ents are -- one is 9036 and one is 9035,
W e're back on the record.
4 correct?
M ICHELLE REDFIELD,
5
A. Y es.
having been previously duly sworn, was exam ined and
6
Q. A nd 9035 refers to an attached letter by
testified further as follows:
7 C harlie Q uentel, correct?
EXAM INATIO N (Continued)
8
A . I'm sorry, th e -- can you say that
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
9 again?
Q. M iss Redfield, w e took a brief lunch
10
Q. Y eah, the Septem ber 16th, 1985 m em o
break. W e're back.
11 references a letter from C harlie Q uentel,
I'm going to hand you w hat I'm
12 correct?
going to m ark as P la in tiffs 15 and ask you i f you
13
A. Y es.
can identify th is docum ent, i f y o u have seen it
14
Q. A nd 9036 is a letter from
before.
1 5 C harlie Q uentel, correct?
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
16
A . It is.
N o . 15 w as m a rk e d for
17
Q . It's d ated Ju ly 2 3 rd o f '85, w h ich is
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
1 8 p rev io u s to S eptem ber 16th o f '85, correct?
TH E W ITNESS: Yes, I have seen this
19
A . It is.
docum ent before.
20
Q. A n d the subject is elim ination o f
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
2 1 asbestos m aterials.
Q. A nd it's B ates stam ped 9035 through 36,
22
A. Y es.
correct?
23
Q. I'm ju st gonna read the letter.
A. Yes.
24
"Dear Tom
Q. Okay. A nd the subject m atter is
25
T his is to M r. C im ino's attention.
Page 106
Page 108
elim ination o f asbestos m aterials? A . Yes. Q . A n d one o f th e peo p le its to is
M r. L yle K ovar in M issouri, correct? A . Yes. Q . A n d C .W . D enny in 1985. D o you know
w hat his position w ith the com pany w as at that tim e?
A . I'm n ot su re w h a t h is p o sition w a s in 1985.
Q . Y o u do n 't k now if h e w as an executive vice president at that tim e?
A . I d o n 't k n ow w h a t his p osition w as. Q. A nd the first page says, "G entlem en: T he attached letter from C harlie Q uentel is self explanatory. Please reply to m e by O ctober 1st if th e proposed policy contained in C harlie's letter w ill cause you problem s."
T he nex t page is th e letter from M r. Q uentel, correct?
A. Y es. M R . Z U K O W S K I: I'm go in g to object. I'm
n o t sure th at's th e letter, but... I f th is is th e ord er, it's n o t m y
u n d erstan d in g o f w h a t th e n ex t p ag e is.
1
A. Correct.
2
Q. "Dear Tom: Some o f the chief engineers
3 have been asking for clarification o f our policy
4 regarding the elim ination o f asbestos m aterials. I
5 have review ed Paul G oudy's files, and I have
6 discussed this w ith Bob K ing and the plan to send
7 the follow ing statem ent to them:
8
W hile we prefer that m aterials
9 containing asbestos n o t be used, use o f asbestos is
10 perm issible if the asbestos is contained w ithin a
11 binding m aterial, such as a m olding com pound,
12 provided no m achining, drilling, et cetera need be
13 perform ed on the part, either by Square D or by
14 the users o f the product containing the part.
15
B ob asked that I check this proposed
1 6 w ording w ith you to be sure that it is consistent
17 w ith governm ent agency requirem ents. Please let me
18 know if this is satisfactory from your standpoint,
1 9 Tom ."
20
D id I read that correctly?
21
A. T hat's w hat it says.
22
Q. Okay. Do you know, based upon what you
2 3 have review ed and the w ork you have done to prepare
24 yourself for this deposition in this case, w hen
2 5 w ould an asbestos m olding pow der or asbestos
27 (Pages 105 to 108)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 109
Page 111
1 m olding com pound before it becomes a circuit
1
Go ahead.
2 breaker be m achined or drilled?
2
T H E W ITN ESS: So m y understanding is
3
A. Um, I think there may have been a
3
that O SH A regulates asbestos fibers, so I
4 process in C edar Rapids based on the conversations
4
don't know if the dust form s are different,
5 I had with Bill Vosdingh w here the asbestos molding
5
bu t it's th e fibers th at are regulated.
6 powder would be put into like a pellet or a -- and
6 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
7 then processed or m olded that way.
7
Q. A re they the sam e fibers?
8
Q. Okay. So is that m achining in your m ind
8
A. I don't know if one is larger or
9 or...
9 sm aller. W e have gotten this --you know , this
10
A. I don't know how the process occurred. I
10 fiber question. I'm not sure w hat the difference
11 don't know w hat the process w as, if it w as heating.
11 is betw een the fibers.
12 I have no idea.
12
Q. W ould anything about a m achining or
13
Q. Let m e put it another way. As an
13 drilling process m ake a short fiber long?
14 environm ental, health and safety professional,
14
A. I don't know.
15 what's the difference betw een dust from asbestos
15
Q. W hat m essage do you th in k this m em o is
16 m olding powders or com pounds that is created in the
1 6 sending to the recipients o f the Septem ber 16th,
17 dum ping o f these bags into hoppers before they
17 1985 m em o from M r. Denny?
18 become the circuit breaker and dust created by
18
A. So I'm fam iliar w ith both o f these
19 drilling the finished circuit breaker product?
19 docum ents. I looked at them in the file. And
20
MR. ZUKOW SKI: Object to the form.
20 there w ere a series o f m em os that w ent back and
21
Beyond the scope.
21 forth between som e personnel at Square D.
22
Go ahead.
22
I actually don't think this July 23rd
23
THE W ITNESS: I really -- I'm not an
23 m em o w as the one that's referenced in the
24
industrial hygienist, I don't know i f there's
24 Septem ber 16th because there w as som e back and
25
a difference in those tw o dusts.
2 5 forth about the w ording.
Page 110
Page 112
1 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
1
The July 23rd m em o is from Q uentel
2
Q. Okay. If the dust created from drilling
2 to Tom Cim ino saying w hat do you think about the
3 a product is potentially harm ful, do you have any
3 w ording, right?
4 idea w hy the dust created from the com pound itself
4
Q. Right.
5 w ould not be harm ful?
5
A. Then there w as a final memo that came
6
M R . Z U K O W SK I: O bjection. A ssum es
6 out that had som e other w ording in it, so this was
7
facts.
7 part o f a process to say how do w e w ant to, you
8
Go ahead.
8 know, how do w e w ant to talk about this and how
9
T H E W ITN ESS: C an you restate the
9 are w e going to distribute this to the team?
10
question for m e?
10
M y understanding o f this is, you
11 BY MR. BAUM STARK:
11 know , as far as I'm aw are, in '85 w e had gotten
12
Q. Sure.
12 the asbestos out, right? A nd so this w as, like,
13
I w ant you to assum e that w orkers
13 hey, guys, w e don't w ant to have asbestos in our
14 at these plants are taking 50-pound bags o f
14 com pany any more, let's send out a com m unication
1 5 th ese asb esto s m o ld in g co m p o u n d s in p o w d er form 15 to the team that says asbestos is not acceptable,
1 6 or in granular form and they are dum ping them
16 w e don't w ant to bring asbestos back into our
17 into hoppers and this process is creating dust,
17 facility, let's stay asbestos free.
18 okay? So th at's one kin d o f asbestos dust.
18
And that kind o f is w hat the final
19
D o you have any reason to believe
19 memo that w as distributed, not only to
2 0 th at th at dust is safe w hereas the dust created
2 0 N orth A m erica, but globally had discussed.
21 from drilling or m achining the finished circuit
21
Q. Okay. So you think that 9036 is not w hat
22 breaker product w ould be unsafe?
22 is referenced in 9035.
23
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form ,
23
A. I think it is not.
24
m ischaracterizes the evidence th at w e have
24
Q. A nd it differs from the memo that in your
25
had today and assum es facts.
2 5 m ind should be attached to th e Septem ber 16th, '85
28 (Pages 109 to 112)
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Page 113
Page 115
in what material respects?
1 m onitor?
A. Yes. The distribution list was
2
A. I have not seen any docum ents that
different. There w ere other countries involved.
3 indicated he w ore a personal air m onitor.
It was a memo that was sent out to a global group
4
Q. N either in C edar R apids or in Colum bia,
at Square D that, you know, was about how w e w ant
5 correct?
to keep asbestos out o f our facilities.
6
A. T hat's correct.
Q. Okay. W ell, let m e ask this then, do
7
Q. A nd if Square D had any records
you know if the policy contained in 9036 was ever
8 concerning the personal air m onitoring on
adopted by Square D?
9 M r. K ovar, you w ould have produced them , true?
A. It's my understanding that yes, it was.
10
A. Correct.
Asbestos is a banned substance in our organization. 1 1
Q. Is it S quare D 's p osition and b e lie f th at
W e have a list o f som e banned substances, and that 1 2 it had provided M r. K ovar and its co-w orkers w ith a
is one o f them .
1 3 safe place to work?
I believe that is - it w as that w ay
14
A . Y es, it is.
when I started, and I don't know how long it had
15
Q. A t all three locations discussed in the
been in place, but it had been in place for quite
1 6 depositions in this case?
a number of years.
17
A. I'm fam iliar w ith C edar R apids and
Q. Okay. But 9036 seems to indicate that
1 8 C olum bia. I'm n ot fam iliar w ith this training
as o f July 23rd o f '85 asbestos w as not banned,
1 9 facility, if that's w h a t you're referring to w hen
correct?
2 0 you said th e three facilities.
A. The w ording --yes, that's w hat this
21
Q. T h at is w hat I'm referring to. Okay.
one --the memo between Quentel and Cim ino --
22
So it's S quare D 's p o sitio n th a t at
Q. Right.
2 3 least at the C edar R apids plant and the Colum bia,
A. --is about trying to tw eak the
2 4 M issouri plant he was provided a safe place to
w ording. This is the initial w ording that was
2 5 work?
Page 114
Page 116
proposed.
1
A. T hat is correct.
Q. Okay. And do w e know - do you have
2
Q. Okay. Free o f the risk o f asbestos
the docum ent that you believe is properly
3 inhalation and asbestos disease?
attached to 9035?
4
M R. ZUKOW SKI: O bject to form.
A . I do. I don't know the B ates num ber,
5
Go ahead.
but it's in th e files. I th in k it's tw o pages
6
TH E W ITNESS: W e - w e did w hat the
long. It w asn't ju st a paragraph.
7
regulations required. W e did w hat was
Q. So is it y our understanding th at this
8
com m only done, you know, w e provided the
policy regarding the elim ination o f asbestos
9
ventilation and respiratory protection and
m aterials in 9036 w as not adopted?
10
dust m itigation techniques that w ere com m on
A . T his w as n ot a policy. T his is a m em o
11
at the time.
betw een tw o individuals.
12 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. Okay. A nd this w as never the policy at
13
Q. Is that a w ay o f saying that the w ork
Square D?
14 environm ents at C edar R apids and M issouri w ere not
A. I can't say w h eth er it w as ever the
1 5 free o f the risk o f asbestos inhalation and
policy o f S quare D , but th at's w h a t this m em o is 1 6 asbestos disease?
about.
17
M R. ZUKOW SKI: O bject to the form.
Q. Okay. Okay. Fair enough.
18
T H E W ITN ESS: There is a potential for
I w ant to turn now to Topics B and E
19
risk w hen you're w orking w ith hazardous
o f th e d eposition n o tice b ecau se I th in k they're
20
chem icals.
v ery --they're som ew hat sim ilar, okay, exposures
21 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
that M r. K ovar and Square D em ployees had to
22
Q. A nd M r. K ovar w as put to that risk, was
asbestos?
2 3 he not?
H ave you seen any docum ents to
24
A. I do not know that.
indicate that M r. K ovar ever w ore a personal air
25
Q. Okay. H ow m any o f M r. K ovar's co-w orkers
29 (Pages 113 to 116)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 117
Page 119
1 at C edar R apids and C olum bia have died from
1
A. I have not heard that nam e.
2 m esotheliom a?
2
Q. D id you know she w orked at the
3
A. I do not know that.
3 C edar R apids plant from 1966 to 1968?
4
Q. D o you know M r. R ay A tw ood?
4
A . I did not know that.
5
A. 1 do not.
5
Q. D o you know that she died o f
6
Q. D id you know that he died o f
6 m esotheliom a?
7 m esotheliom a and w orked at th e Square D p lan t in
7
M R. ZU K O W SK I: Sam e objections.
8 C edar R apids?
8
T H E W ITN ESS: I did not know that.
9
M R. Z U K O W SK I: O bjection. B eyond the
9 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
10
scope.
10
Q . W hat about M arilyn H oyt, H -o-y-t?
11
T H E W ITN ESS: I did not know that.
11
A. I have not heard o f that nam e.
12 BY MR. BAUM STARK:
12
Q. Y ou did not know that she w orked for
13
Q. D o you know M r. W ayne D avis?
13 Square D , and, likew ise, died from m esotheliom a?
14
A. I do not.
14
A. No.
15
Q. D o you know that he died o f m esotheliom a 15
M R . ZU K O W SK I: Sam e objection.
16 after w orking at the Square D plant?
16 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
17
M R. ZU K O W SK I: The sam e objection.
17
Q. W hat about M r. R ichard H. Long, have you
18
T H E W ITN ESS: I did no t know that.
18 ever heard o f that nam e?
19 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
19
A. I have not heard that nam e.
20
Q. H ow about M r. Jam ie Tedrow , have you
20
Q . Y o u didn't know th at he died o f
21 ever heard that nam e?
2 1 m esotheliom a after w orking for Square D ?
22
A . I have not heard o f him .
22
M R. ZU K O W SK I: Sam e objections.
23
Q. D id you know that M r. T edrow also died o f 23
T H E W ITN ESS: I did not.
24 m esotheliom a after w orking at Square D ?
24 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
25
A . I did not know that.
25
Q. W hat about the nam e K athleen Fisher,
Page 118
Page 120
1
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Sam e objection. A ssum es
2
facts.
3 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
4
Q. W hat about M r. Roy D uncan?
5
A. I do not know that name.
6
Q. Y ou w ere not a w itness in his law suit?
7
A . I w as not a w itness.
8
Q. Y ou did not know that M r. D uncan w orked
9 at C edar R apids and Colum bia, M issouri, and,
10 likew ise, died o f m esotheliom a?
11
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Sam e objections.
12
TH E W ITN ESS: I did not know that.
13 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
14
Q. W hat about K athryn D ehnig,
15 D -e-h-n-i-g, have you ever heard o f her?
16
A. I have not heard o f K atherine D ehnig.
17
Q. Do you know that she died o f m esotheliom a
18 after w orking at the C edar R apids plant from 1968
19 to 1976?
20
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Same objection. Beyond
21
the scope and assum es facts.
22
TH E W ITNESS: I did not know that.
23 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
24
Q. W hat about M ary Lee Evans, had you ever
25 heard o f that nam e?
1 have you ever heard that nam e?
2
A. I don't know that nam e.
3
Q. Y ou didn't know th at she w orked for
4 Square D plants and died o f m esotheliom a?
5
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Sam e objections. Beyond
6
the scope. A ssum es facts.
7
TH E W ITNESS: I did not know.
8 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
9
Q. W hat about the nam e D on Stuber,
10 S-t-u-b-e-r, have you ever heard o f that nam e
11 before?
12
A. I have not heard o f that name.
13
Q. Y ou don't know if he w orked for S quare D,
14 correct?
15
A. I do not know w ho he w orked for.
16
Q. Y ou w ere not aw are that he died o f
17 m esotheliom a as w ell?
18
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Sam e objections.
19
TH E W ITNESS: N o, I do not.
20 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
21
Q. W hat about Jim Peresie, P-e-r-e-s-i-e,
22 have you ever heard o f that nam e before?
23
A. I have not heard that name.
24
Q. D id you know that he w orked for
2 5 Square D at the plants w here M r. K ovar worked and
30 (Pages 117 to 120)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 121
Page 123
1 he died o f m esotheliom a as w ell?
1
A. I have not -- I don't know all those
2
M R. ZU K O W SK I: Sam e objections.
2 facts.
3
T H E W ITN ESS: I did not.
3
Q. B ut the facts you do know you do not
4 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
4 dispute?
5
Q. W hat about K enneth Copland, is that nam e
5
A. T he facts that I do know I do not
6 fam iliar to you?
6 dispute.
7
A. It is not.
7
Q . L et's go to T opic C , "W hen did Square D
8
Q. Y ou didn't know th at he died o f
8 first becom e aw are o f the hazards associated with
9 m esotheliom a after w orking for Square D ?
9 exposure to asbestos dust."
10
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Sam e objections.
10
W hen did Square D first becom e
11
TH E W ITN ESS: I did not.
11 aw are that asbestos inhalation could cause disease
12 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
12 or injury?
13
Q. A re you aw are that there have been at
13
A . T he first docum entation I'm aw are o f
14 least 20 diagnosed m esotheliom as and as m any as
14 indicates that w e becam e aw are o f upcom ing
15 three dozen diagnosed m esotheliom as in form er
15 regulations related to asbestos in the early
16 Square D em ployees w ho w orked at C edar R apids
16 1970s.
17 and/or the Colum bia, M issouri plants?
17
Q. W ould that be true for all the diseases,
18
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection. B eyond the
18 m eaning asbestosis, lung cancer and m esotheliom a?
19
scope. A ssum es facts. Lacks foundation.
19
A. I can't com m ent on that. I don't know .
20
Go ahead.
2 0 It w as about asbestos. It w asn't specific to
21
TH E W ITN ESS: I did not.
2 1 diseases.
22 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
22
Q. A nd this is based on your review o f the
23
Q. If those facts are true, do you believe
2 3 docum ents?
24 that Square D provided its em ployees w ho w orked at 2 4
A. Correct.
25 these tw o plants w ith these asbestos m olding
25
Q. A n d that's all it's based on?
Page 122
Page 124
1 com pounds a safe place to work?
1
2
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Object to form. Beyond
2
3
the scope. A ssum es facts.
3
4
THE W ITNESS: I'm sorry, can you
4
5
repeat that?
5
6 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
6
7
Q. If the facts that I have advised you o f
7
8 are true, do you believe that Square D provided
8
9 these people, including m y client, with a safe
9
10 place to work?
10
11
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Same objections.
11
12
THE WITNESS: Id o .
12
13 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
13
14
Q. Thank you.
14
15
W hen you skim med the depositions
15
16 o f Barry Em anuel, Ronald O gden and Ronald A nderson 16
17 following your review, do you have any reason to
17
18 doubt their sincerity?
18
19
A. I don't have any reason to doubt their
19
20 testim onies.
20
21
Q. Do you have any reason to doubt the
21
22 accuracy o f their testimony?
22
23
A. I have no reason one way or another.
23
24
Q. Y ou have no reason to doubt the facts
24
25 that they attest to in those sworn depositions?
25
1______
A. Correct. Q. Okay. N o conversations with anyone have com e into your answ er to that question? A. Correct. Q. W as Square D a m em ber o f the N ational Safety C ouncil? A . I'm sorry, w hat?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection, beyond the scope.
I'm so n y . G o ahead. BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. W as Square D was a m em ber o f the N ational Safety C ouncil?
A . I d id n 't h ear if you said w as or is. Q. Both. A re they today? A. W e are today. Q. Okay. H ow long have they been a m em ber? A. I am not sure. Q. The interrogatory response that I saw does not list th e date. Y ou're not aw are o f the date, a beginning date for the N ational Safety C ouncil? A . I'm not. Q. D id the N ational Safety C ouncil begin
31 (Pages 121 to 124)
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
lI L
Page 125
Page 127
to w arn its m em bers in the 1930s about the hazards o f asbestos exposure to your know ledge?
A . I'm not aw are o f that. Q. Specifically did the N ational Safety C ouncil w arn its m em bers in 1931 about asbestosis and its causes? A. I can't speak to that. I don't know w hat th ey w ere doing. Q. D id the N ational Safety C ouncil publish no less than eight --strike the w hole question. L et m e start again.
D id the N ational Safety C ouncil publish no less than eight articles in the 1930s alone in the N ational Safety N ew s on asbestosis and the hazards o f asbestos exposure?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection. B eyond the scope.
Go ahead. T H E W ITN ESS: I can't com m ent on w hat the N ational Safety C ouncil did in th at tim e. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. W hat responsibility did Square D have to be right at the cutting edge o f the state o f the art on asbestos disease and hazards by 1964 in your opinion?
1 regulations, at that time w e had to go out to our
2 suppliers and ask them what compounds may or may
3 not contain asbestos.
4
So based on that review o f those
5 documents, it was not clear to me that we were
6 aware whether there was asbestos in molding
7 compounds w e were using.
8
Q. Square D had no idea what was in these
9 compounds it was asking its employees to work
10 around on a daily basis?
11
A. The specifications for the molding
12 compounds were not --did not include, you know,
13 what the content was. It was more technical
14 specifications as far as, you know, what can we
15 make our molds from. That's my understanding based
16 on review o f the documents.
17
Q. Is that based on solely your review o f
18 the documents or did someone tell you that?
19
A. That is based on the review o f the
20 documents.
21
Q. It's not based on --
22
A. I did not discuss this with Bill or
23 Rich W iddowson.
24
Q. Do you find it strange that a company
25 that is using so much o f a particular compound does
Page 126
Page 128
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
1 not know that it contains hazardous m aterial?
Beyond the scope.
2
A. I don't find it strange that at the tim e
T H E W ITN ESS: I'm sorry, could you
3 w e did not --w ere not aw are o f w h at w as in those
repeat that?
4 com pounds.
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
5
Q. Square D was a com pany that was
Q. Sure. L et m e rephrase.
6 com pletely ignorant o f the fact that the m olding
Square D, beginning in the late 50s
7 com pounds that he used for years contained
and all through the 60s at the C edar R apids plant
8 asbestos. That's your testim ony today?
w as using tons and tons o f asbestos containing
9
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
m olding com pounds, true?
10
M ischaracterizes her testim ony.
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject. A ssum es facts.
11
TH E W ITNESS: So based on m y review
Go ahead.
12
o f the docum ents w hen we becam e aw are that
THE W ITNESS: So Square D in the 60s
13
asbestos was being regulated, w e had to go out
w as using tons and tons o f m olding com pounds.
14
and identify and w ork w ith our suppliers to
Square D did not know at the tim e w hether or
15
determ ine w hether or not there w as asbestos in
not those com pounds contained asbestos.
16
these m olding com pounds.
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
17
B ased on that review , it appears to
Q. A re you serious?
18
m e that w e w ere not aw are w hether or not there
A. A s far as the docum ents that I have
19
was asbestos in the m olding com pounds.
review ed, that is correct.
20 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. It's y o u r co ntention today th a t S quare D
21
Q. A nd they first realized there was
had no idea that these m olding com pounds contained 22 asbestos in the m olding com pounds w hen?
asbestos?
23
A . I th ink it w as d urin g a period o f tim e in
A. Based on the docum ents that I have
24 the 70s.
review ed w hen w e realized and heard about these 25
Q. W hen in the 70s if you know?
32 (Pages 125 to 128)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 129
Page 131
1
A. Som etim e after 1972.
1 Danger.
2
Q. So, accordingly, Square D did nothing
2
A. Correct.
3 to educate itself about the hazards and dangers o f
3
Q. O n Page 9 0 7 0 1 have highlighted som e
4 asbestos exposure in the 1960s, correct?
4 portions, have I not?
5
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection. A ssum es
5
A . Y es, there are som e pink highlights on
6
facts.
6 here.
7
T H E W ITN ESS: I can't speculate on
7
Q. Okay. The first highlighted section
8
w hat occurred in the different departm ents
8 says, "The em phasis is on five hazardous w orkplace
9
th at I didn't have docum ents for, b u t I
9 substances." T he first listed is asbestos, true?
10
did not see any docum ents before that tim e
10
A. Yes.
11
fram e.
11
Q. It says, "O nce highly regarded as a
12 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
12 m ineral w ith rem arkable qualities, asbestos is now
13
Q. Y ou had over 13,000 pages o f docum ents,
13 w idely recognized as one o f the m ost hazardous o f
14 true?
14 air contam inants;" is that correct?
15
A. I don't know the num ber, but there w ere
15
A . T hat's w h at it says.
16 a lot o f docum ents.
16
Q. O n 9072 is the first page o f an article,
17
Q. It was a stack yay high?
17 A sbestos: A irborne D anger, true?
18
A. It w as a couple boxes.
18
A. Yes.
19
Q. A nd is it your testim ony that now here in
19
Q. A nd first highlighted section says, "No
2 0 those docum ents is asbestos discussed at all before
2 0 cure now exists for the diseases caused by inhaling
21 1972?
2 1 asbestos fibers. O nce established, these
22
A. It could be som ew here in those docum ents, 2 2 disorders, too, have so far proved to be
23 but, you know , the ones that I gleaned from , I
2 3 inextinguishable."
24 didn't see som ething before about the 1970s --
24
Is that w hat it says?
25 before 1972 that indicated that w e had an
25
A. Yes.
Page 130
Page 132
1 understanding o f what was in our m olding compounds. 1
Q. "In the last few years, asbestos has
2
Q. So the design engineers or the process
2 been recognized as one o f the m ost hazardous o f
3 engineers who worked for Square D who decided
3 air contam inants in the w orkplace," correct?
4 which compounds worked and which circuit breakers
4
A . T hat's w h a t it says.
5 had no clue that asbestos was in these m olding
5
Q. A nd it says, "Em ployees exposed to
6 compounds in the 1960s?
6 asbestos include an estim ated 100,000 insulation
7
A. I don't know w hat the design engineers
7 w orkers and 50,000 w orkers in m anufacturing
8 knew.
8 products," true?
9
Q. Okay. Let m e show you what I have marked
9
A . T hat's w h at it says.
10 as 16.
10
Q . O n the right-hand side, the article goes
11
(W hereupon, P laintiffs Exhibit
11 on to state, "W hat disturbs researchers about
12
N o. 16 was marked for
12 diseases linked to asbestos is in th at m any cases
13
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
13 they are presently encountering results from
14 B Y MR. BAUMSTARK:
14 exposures dating back to the 1930s w hen asbestos
15
Q. Have you seen this document before?
15 w as not used as extensively as it is today."
16
A. It's not familiar to me.
16
Is th at w hat th at said?
17
Q. It's got a Square D B ates stamp in this
17
A . Yes.
18 case, correct?
18
Q . A n d th a t statem en t is reflectin g th e
19
A. It does, yes.
19 reality that asbestos diseases have a very long
20
Q. Begins on Page 9069?
2 0 latency period, correct?
21
A. Correct.
21
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form .
22
Q. And this is a publication by the United
22 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
23 States Department o f Labor?
23
Q. If you know.
24
A. Yes.
24
A . I'm not sure w h at this statem ent --
25
Q. A nd it's entitled A sbestos: Airborne
2 5 ju st it says it results from exposures th at dated
33 (Pages 129 to 132)
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back to the 30s.
1
Q. A re you fam iliar w ith this idea o f
2
laten cy w h e n it's related to asb esto s disease?
3
A . Y es, I'm fam iliar.
4
Q. W hat does it m ean to you?
5
A . It m eans it takes aw h ile for it to show
6
up.
7
Q. H ow long, if you know ?
8
A . I don't know .
9
Q . I d o n 't know . O n P age 9073, th e n ex t
10
page, the highlighted section indicates that
11
asbestosis w as recognized 72 years ago, true?
12
A . Y es.
13
Q . It goes on to state that, "A lthough
14
four varieties o f asbestos are used com m ercially,
15
chrysotile asbestos, m ined prim arily in Q uebec,
16
accounts for 95 percent o f w orld production,"
17
true?
18
A . T hat's w h at it says.
19
Q. T his docum ent also states, "Chrysotile,
20
how ever, is dangerous m edically," true?
21
A . T hat's w h at it says.
22
Q. B ased upon the docum ents w e have looked 23
at today, by 1972 Square D had incorporated m ore 24
th an 18 m illion pounds o f chrysotile containing
25
Page 134
died of, to your know ledge? A. Yes. Q. Okay. This docum ent states that,
"M esotheliom a, form erly a rare cancer afflicting only 1 out o f 10,000 people is now appearing at an unprecedented rate. R esearchers are linking it to asbestos exposure, how ever slight. This fatal cancer attacks the pleura, the m em brane lining the lung and chest cavity, or the peritoneum , the lining o f the abdom inal cavity," correct?
A . T hat's w h at it says. Q. A nd, lastly, on Page 9076, the top right-hand colum n, "A sbestos contam ination holds an increasing threat to the general public. B oth the dusty m anufacturing processes and the spraying o f structural steel em it vast am ounts o f asbestos fibers into the atm osphere, threatening those living near asbestos factories," correct? A . T hat's w h at it says. Q. T hat particular passage o f this article is concerned about neighbors o f plants, not the w orkers, right? A . It says that the general public -- they're referring to the general public. Q. N ot the people w ho are actually w orking
Page 136
P lenco 509 B lack at a m inim um into its circuit breakers, true?
M R . Z U K O W SK I: A ssum es facts. O bjection.
Go ahead. T H E W IT N E S S : I do n 't k n o w the quantity. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. T he quantity w as very large, right? A . T here w as -- there w ere m any pounds that w ere used, yes. Q. O n Page 9074, the first highlighted portion, "R ecent studies indicate that asbestos also m ay be a potent carcinogenic or cancer-producing agent. A m ajor stum bling block to researchers in establishing the connection betw een asbestos and cancer has been the length o f tim e betw een exposure to the substance and the appearance o f cancer sym ptom s."
Is that w hat that docum ent says? A . Y es, it says that. Q . O n th at sam e page it talks about the disease m esotheliom a, correct? A . Y es, it... Q . A n d that's th e disease th at M r. K ovar
1 in those conditions, but the people outside the
2 plants w here those conditions exist?
3
A. Yes.
4
Q. Does Square D accept that com panies
5 that actually m ade asbestos products ow ed it to
6 their em ployees w ho w orked w ith or around these
7 products to know all there w as to know about
8 asbestos w hen their em ployees w ere w orking w ith
9 asbestos at their plants?
10
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
11
T H E W IT N E S S : S o y o u 're a sk in g
12
Square D to com m ent on w hat other asbestos
13
m illers w ere doing or m ine --w hat are you
14
asking?
15 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
16
Q. I'm asking Square D to com m ent on
17 w hether or not it ow ed it to its em ployees to know
18 everything there w as to know about asbestos given
19 the fact that their em ployees w ere w orking w ith and
2 0 around it every day. T hat's m y question.
21
A. So as an em ployer, again I'll say, you
22 know , it's our responsibility to provide a safe and
23 healthy w orkplace for our em ployees.
24
Q. A nd that w ould include, num ber one,
2 5 know ing w hat's actually in the com pounds they're
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w orking with, right? A . It w ould include -- at the tim e
provid in g, you k n ow , the safe w ork p lace for ou r em ployees to w o rk in.
Q. M a'am , how can you provide a safe w orkplace for your em ployees w hen you don't even know w hat's in th e com pounds your em ployees are using?
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form. A ssum es facts.
M R . B A U M ST A R K : It doesn't assum e facts. T hat's w hat she testified to this afternoon.
M R . Z U K O W SK I: Y ou're assum ing they w eren't providing a safe w orkplace.
TH E W ITN ESS: W e had a lot o f safety initiatives and concerns in the organization, and things like noise, things like dust in general, you know, hand protection, so w e were providing and focusing on, you know , all the different areas o f providing safe and healthy w orking environm ent for our em ployees.
M R . B A U M S T A R K : I'll object to the nonresponsive answer.
1 w hen w e learned that it w as regulated, w e w ent
2 out to our suppliers, w e asked an industrial --
3 w e ask ed in d u strial h ygien ists to com e in and
4 conduct studies. W e conducted m onitoring. W e
5 have people putting m asks on. W e did w hat a
6 responsible em ployer should be doing at the tim e.
7
Q. 14 years after you started using
8 asbestos-containing m olding com pounds, according
9 to your testim ony today, you first discovered that
10 they contained asbestos, right?
11
A. I'm sorry, can you --
12
Q. W hen did Square D start incorporating
13 asbestos m olding com pounds into its products?
14
A. I don't know w hen w e began incorporating
15 asbestos m olding com pounds into our products.
16
Q. The docum ents you have seen today tend
17 to indicate that occurred at least by 1958, true?
18
A. Yes.
19
Q. Okay. Y our testim ony earlier today was
20 th at Square D did not know that asbestos w as in
21 these com pounds until 1972, correct?
22
A. W e did not begin learning th at until
23 1972 based on the docum ents that I read.
24
Q. Perhaps you didn't even know it by 1972,
25 it m ay have taken you a few m ore years to discover
Page 138
Page 140
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
1 that these products contained asbestos, is that
Q . It is im possible for a com pany to provide
2 w hat you're saying now ?
a safe place to w ork to its em ployees if the
3
A. W hen w e learned about the regulations,
com pany does not know w hat the em ployees are
4 w e started inquiring w ith our suppliers to
w orking with, true?
5 determ ine w h at contained asbestos and w h at did
A. To the best o f our abilities, you know,
6 not.
w e provide a safe and healthy w orkplace based on
7
Q , It took you at least 14 years before it
what w e do know.
8 daw ned on you that the com pounds your em ployees
Q. A nd part o f that w ould be to know w hat
9 w ere w orking w ith every day contained asbestos?
these people are w orking with.
10
M R. ZUKOW SKI: O bject to the form.
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to form . A gain
11
A rgum entative. A ssum es facts. A sked and
assum es facts.
12
answ ered.
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
13 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Q. Right?
14
Q. A m I right? It took you 14 years,
A. I'm sorry, w hat's the question?
15 according to your testim ony today? A m I right?
Q. I m ean, you have to know w hat's in
16
A. So the question is --
these com pounds that you are asking your
17
Q. The question is how long did it take
em ployees to w ork w ith every day, don't you?
18 Square D to realize that its m olding com pounds it
D on't you ow e it to them to find out w hat's in
19 was using at the Cedar Rapids plant in Iow a
these com pounds?
20 contained asbestos?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject.
21
A. From w hen w e started the inquiries in
TH E W ITN ESS: A nd w e did.
22 the early 70s, I don't know , a few years, m aybe a
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
23 year or --I don't know exactly w hen w e m ade that
Q. W hen?
24 final determ ination for all o f our m olding
A. W hen w e learned that it w as a hazard,
25 com pounds. I don't know that date.
35 (Pages 137 to 140)
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Page 141
Page 143
Q. Y ou started using m olding com pounds by
1
1958?
2
A . W e started using m olding com pounds in
3
the 1950s and did not know w hether or n ot they
4
contained asbestos at that tim e.
5
Q. Okay. Thank you.
6
A nd if you did not know that your
7
com pounds contained asbestos until 1974 or so,
8
there was no possible way you could have advised
9
any o f your em ployees that they w ere w orking w ith
10
asbestos, right?
11
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
12
TH E W ITNESS: Y ou know, I have not
13
found in the docum ents any docum entation o f
14
those types o f notifications.
15
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
16
Q. Y ou can't tell anyone they're w orking
17
w ith asbestos if you don't know , correct?
18
A . Correct.
19
Q . Y ou can't w arn them about th e hazards o f
20
asbestos exposure, correct?
21
A. I'm sorry, w hat's the question?
22
Q . If you don't know your em ployees are
23
w orking w ith asbestos, you're n o t going to let them
24
know about the hazards o f asbestos, are you?
25
Page 142
trying to get asbestos out and replacem ents. H e w as at the m anagem ent level
in M issouri, and he w as privy to that inform ation, yes.
Q. Can you point me to the docum ent that is sent or copied to M r. K ovar that w arned that inhalation o f asbestos can cause cancer and death?
A. I can't point to that docum ent. Q. It doesn't exist, does it? A. I have not seen that docum ent. Q. A nd you have review ed thousands o f pages o f docum ents? A. I have review ed the docum ents that w ere provided. Q. Is asking an em ployee to w ear a paper m ask the sam e as telling them that the product they are w orking with, if inhaled in sufficient quantity, w ill cause serious injury and death?
M R. ZUKOW SKI: O bject to the form. Go ahead.
THE W ITNESS: Those are tw o different things. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. D o you agree that instructing an em ployee
Page 144
A. I f w e're not aw are th at there is
1
asbestos in our factories, w e can't provide
2
inform ation about that to our em ployees.
3
Q. Okay. A nd you can't provide them any
4
training?
5
A. W e provided training.
6
Q. N ot regarding asbestos.
7
A. W e did provide training about dust in
8
general.
9
Q. But not asbestos dust?
10
A. N ot specifically.
11
Q. O kay. Let's go to T opic F, w hich is
12
education and warnings regarding asbestos given to
13
Lyle K ovar and his employees.
14
D id Lyle Kovar have a high school
15
education?
16
A. I don't know w hat Lyle Kovar's education
17
level was.
18
Q. A re there any docum ents to indicate that
19
he received any training at all at Square D
20
regarding asbestos specifically?
21
A. There are docum ents in the file that I
22
have seen w here he has been ccd and he has been in 2 3
the com m unications around the use o f hazardous -- 2 4
the use o f asbestos in our facilities and about
25
to w ear a m ask w ithout fully explaining w hy the m ask needs to be w orn constitutes an infective in s tru c tio n ?
A . I'm sorry, can you say th at again? Q. Sure.
D o you agree that instructing an em ployee to w ear a m ask w ithout fully explaining w hy the m ask needs to be w arn constitutes an infective instruction on b eh alf o f the em ployer?
A. Yes. Q. Y ou agree? A . W e w ould -- w hen providing a m ask, w e w ould explain w hy w e're providing the m ask. Q . Y o u w ould explain it fully? A . T o the best o f ou r abilities. Q. In order to fully accept or buy into any safety instruction or precaution, the em ployee needs to know all th at it is at stake, correct? A . I'm sorry, I'm getting tired. C an you please repeat that? Q. Sure.
In order to fully accept or buy into any safety instruction or precaution, an em ployee needs to know w hat is at stake?
A . I can't com m ent on w h at m akes an
36 (Pages 141 to 144)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 145
1 em ployee buy in or accept things. A ll they can --
1
2 you know , w e can provide inform ation. W e can't
2
3 say how th e em ployee buys in or accepts that.
3
4
Q. I f l asked you to w ear a m ask and I
4
5 didn't tell you w hy and I didn't tell you th at the
5
6 substance you're w orking around i f you breathe it
6
7 in will kill you, have I properly advised you and
7
8 educated you as to w hy that m ask should be w arn?
8
9
M R. ZUKO W SKI: O bject to the form.
9
10
Go ahead.
10
11
TH E W ITN ESS: If you tell me to wear
11
12
a m ask and you don't tell m e why, I w ould ask
12
13
the question, "W hy am I w earing a m ask?"
13
14 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
14
15
Q. A nd if th e an sw er is it's dusty, is th at
15
16 an adequate explanation?
16
17
A . I don't know w hy you're telling m e to
17
18 w ear a m ask, so if it's because ~ and this is a
18
19 hypothetical you're giving you and me.
19
20
Q. H ave you seen a docum ent anyw here here
20
21 that indicates that the em ployees, w hen perform ing
21
22 one or tw o tasks in the m olding portions o f the
22
2 3 plant, the fabrication side o f the plant, are
23
24 sim ply to w ear a m ask w ith no further explanation?
24
25
A. I have not seen a docum ent to that
25
Page 146
1 effect.
1
2
Q . O kay. Y o u 're n o t aw are th a t in y o u r
2
3 A nsw ers to Interrogatories in this case you have
3
4 specifically cited that docum ent and suggested the
4
5 p lain tiff --that that constituted a proper w arning
5
6 regarding th e dangers o f asbestos.
6
7
M R . Z U K O W S K I: I'm going to object.
7
8
Y o u ask ed - th at's n o t th e q u estio n you
8
9
asked if th ere is a d ocum ent th at references
9
10
m asks. I d o n 't th in k th at's th e question y o u
10
11
asked.
11
12
M R . B A U M S T A R K : W e ll, th a t's th e
12
13
question I'll ask rig h t now .
13
14 BY M R. BAUM STARK:
14
15
Q. H ave you seen a docum ent, the pages and
15
16 pages o f docum ents produced by Square D w here
16
17 em ployees are sim ply told to w ear a m ask w ith no 17
18 explanation o f w hy they should w ear a m ask or the 18
1 9 hazards o f th e p ro d u ct th ey 're w o rk in g w ith?
19
20
M R . Z U K O W SK I: Sam e objection.
20
21
M ischaracterizing the docum ent.
21
22
T H E W IT N E S S : I d o n 't recall seeing
22
23
such docum ent.
23
24 BY M R. BAUM STARK:
24
25
Q . O kay. D o you th in k th at sim ply
25
i______
Page 147
describing a substance or m aterial as hazardous gets the jo b done as far as letting an em ployee know w hat the dangers are o f w orking w ith that substance are?
A . I'm n ot sure w h at you m ean by gets the job done.
Q. Is it an effective w arning? A . W hen w e are --w hen w e are instructing ou r em ployees to w ear P PE -Q. W hat's PPE ? A . P ersonal protective equipm ent. Q. Okay. A. -- a m ask w ould fall under that category.
T hey're provided a reasonable explanation as to w hy. A nd they w ould have d em an d ed th at, esp ecially in th e unions. B oth o f these facilities w ere unions. T hey w eren't going to do anything w ith ou t clear instructions and guidelines and acceptance.
Q. W hat if the em ployee w asn't in a union? A. W e w ould have done it the sam e w ay. Q. W hen did Square D first realize it had an asbestos contam ination problem at the C edar R apids plant?
Page 148
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection. A ssum es facts.
TH E W ITNESS: A n asbestos contam ination problem ? BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. They're not m y w ords - they are m y w ords, b u t I didn't pick them out o f thin air. H ave you seen any docum ent that indicates that there was an asbestos contam ination problem at the C edar Rapids plant? A. W ell, I recognize this docum ent that you have ju st pulled out. Q. Okay. A. So shortly after w e learned o f the regulations around asbestos, w e had an industrial hygienist com e into the C edar R apids plant and conduct a -- I think it w as an evaluation.
(W hereupon, P la in tiffs E xhibit No. 17 w as m arked for Identification, 07/02/2014.) BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. Let's talk about it. That's N o. 17, correct, P laintiffs E xhibit 17? This is a report o f an investigation, Square D Com pany, C edar Rapids,
37 (Pages 145 to 148)
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Page 151
Iow a; is it not?
1
A. Yes, it is.
2
Q . It's d ated Jan u ary 16th o f 1973; is th at
3
right? P age 13074 by the B ates stam p.
4
A . T h an k you . T h at is th e d ate o f the air
5
analysis table.
6
Q. Som etim e after that date --the report,
7
w e can assum e, som etim e after that date, true?
8
A . Y eah. T here's a 6-72 on the front page,
9
I don't know if that's a date or not.
10
Q . Y eah , I d o n 't th in k it is. O kay.
11
W e're go in g to look at an other
12
docum ent in a few m inutes that I think w ill give
13
us the proper tim e fram e.
14
B ut I w ant you to assum e that this
15
report w as authored som etim e betw een January
16
o f '73 an d M a rc h o f '7 3 , okay?
17
T he investigator in this report w as
18
not asked to look at an asbestos exposure issue,
19
w as he?
20
A . T he docum ent states that, "The purpose 21
o f the visit w as to evaluate the possible causes
22
o f reported cases o f derm atitis in th e p lan t
23
w orkers."
24
Q. So Square D did not bring this
25
Page 150
A . T hat's w h a t it looks like. Q. Okay. A nd Page 13072 under discussion, he was there to investigate derm atitis, but quote-unquote, "W hile considering this, the author observed w hat he considered represented a far m ore serious potential problem , and that w as the use o f asbestos fiber," correct? A. I don't -- does it say that? Q. U nder discussion on Page 13072. A. O h, sorry, I w as on the w rong page. Q. T hat's okay. A. Y es, that's w h at it says. Q. O n the page before 13072, his recom m endations, as far as asbestos go, is that, "If at all possible, a less toxic substitute should be found for asbestos," correct? A. T hat w as the recom m endation. Q . O kay. A nd this is a recom m endation m ade to your com pany in 1973? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Is it your testim ony today that if it w ere not for this investigation to derm atitis that Square D w ould n o t have know n its com pounds contained asbestos?
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject. M ischaracterizes
Page 152
investigator in to evaluate asbestos issues at
1
the testim ony.
th eir plant, correct?
2
T H E W IT N E SS: I'm sorry, th ere w ere a
A . N ot this one.
3
couple negatives. C an you restate that for
Q. A nd under purpose on Page 13071 o f
4
m e?
the B ates stam p, it says, "H ow ever, during the
5 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
visit another occupational disease exposure
6
Q. D id Square D at the tim e o f this report
(asbestos) w as discovered w hich w ill also be
7 realize that its com pounds contained asbestos, if
evaluated," true?
8 you know?
A . T hat's w h at it says.
9
A . I th ink that realization process and
Q. A nd w ithout going in to w ho the
10 the inquiry w as ongoing at the tim e o f this
investigator w orked for, he did not w ork for
11 report.
Square D ?
12
Q . A nd w hat is that based on?
A . It doesn't appear that this w as a
13
A . T he review o f the docum ents w here w e
Square D docum ent.
14 w ere talking back and forth w ith our vendors to
Q. W ell, let m e rephrase. T his gentlem an
15 learn ab ou t w h eth er or not there w as asbestos in
w ho is doing this rep o rt and doing this
16 our m olding pow ders.
investigation w as not a Square D em ployee?
17
Q. The docum ents that I have seen that I
A . I assum e not. It says A m erican M utual
18 believe you are describing are letters to Plenco,
L iability Insurance C om pany.
1 9 Durez, a few other m anufacturers w here they are
M R . B A U M S T A R K : I'll m ove to strike
2 0 saying, "W hat sort o f asbestos do you have in your
that answ er.
2 1 com pounds?" A nd, "Is it possible for you to have
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
22 an asbestos-free com pound?"
Q . Ju st from th e first page, it's very
23
A re those the correspondence
ap p aren t th e g en tlem an d id n o t w o rk fo r S q u are D , 2 4 you're talking about do you think?
he w orked for another com pany, right?
25
A . I th ink w e're talking about the sam e
38 (Pages 149 to 152)
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Page 153
Page 155
correspondences, but I m ight characterize them
1
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
differently.
2
T H E W IT N E SS: I can't com m ent to the
Q. Okay. Y ou believe those occurred prior
3
investigator's interests.
to this report?
4 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
A. I can't remember the exact date order.
5
Q. H e certainly m arked them as excessive,
Q. Is it possible that this exhibit --is
6 according to the --
it Plaintiffs 18?
7
A. T here are asterisks next to the tw o
M R. ZU K O W SK I: 17.
8 num bers th at indicate -- it says excessive. T hat's
M R . SPR IN G FIELD : 17.
9 w h a t th e asterisk is.
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
10
Q. So despite the fact that Square D had
Q. T hat P laintiffs 17 represents apparently
1 1 been using asbestos m olds since at least 1958, the
the first tim e that Square D w as aw are th at its
1 2 first tim e it becam e aw are o f an asbestos problem
products contained asbestos?
1 3 w as in 1973?
A. I don't know . I'd have to really go back
14
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection.
and look very carefully at the chronology. I'm not 1 5
M ischaracterizes testim ony.
sure w h at th e first point in tim e w as.
16
T H E W IT N E SS: A gain I'm not sure --
Q. A t the top o f 13073, the investigator
17
you know , w e answ ered this before. I'm not
m akes this com m ent, "Even though the asbestos is
18
sure w hat the exact date was, if there was
m ixed w ith other com pounds, apparently significant
19
som e prior --I'd have to look back at the
am ounts do becom e airborne at both these locations
20
chronology. I don't know the exact date.
as revealed by personal air sam ples taken at both
21
T his m ay be th e date. I'm not sure if there's
these locations on a day w hen asbestos w as being
22
a prior know ledge. I don't know .
used."
23 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
Is that his finding?
24
Q. B ut you have had an opportunity to review
A . T hat's w hat it says.
2 5 those docum ents, true?
Page 154
Page 156
Q. A nd the air concentration --or the asbestos concentration levels that are reflected on the last page o f this exhibit, they far exceed the threshold lim it value, do they not?
A. So this is an air asbestos concentration level o f 8.9.
Q. A nd w hat's the -- A . I think E m eans it's fibers per m illiliter. So that's the -- how m any fibers w ere in a m illiliter o f air th at w as collected. I'm not sure that m aking that com parison directly to this T L V is a d irect com parison. I th ink there's a calculation that goes into that. Q . So you don't know w hether o r not these are excessive asbestos concentration m easurem ents? A. I don't know w hether they exceed the regulatory levels. Q. The investigator certainly felt that way, didn't he? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And based upon what we know about the investigator, he w ould have a vested interest, w ould he not, in m aking sure that these levels w ere not excessive?
1
A. I have.
2
Q. A nd sitting here right now you can't
3 think o f an earlier docum ent indicating that
4 Square D was on notice there was an asbestos
5 problem ?
6
A. W as that a question?
7
Q. It was.
8
M R. BAUM STARK: Could you read it back?
9
(W hereupon, the record was read.)
10
TH E W ITNESS: N o, not a specific
11
docum ent.
12
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
13
N o. 18 w as m arked for
14
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
15 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
16
Q. I'm going to hand you w hat I have m arked
17 as Plaintiffs Exhibit 18. Are you able to
18 identify that docum ent for us?
19
A. This is a Square D interoffice m emo
2 0 from F.J. H itchcock to C.W . Denny dated April 5th,
21 1973.
22
Q. A nd the subject is m olding area
23 atm osphere, correct?
24
A. Correct.
25
Q. A nd it talks about the fact that a
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Frank A ngelos cam e to look at the m olding operation on A pril 4th.
A. Correct. Q. O f 1973. A. Correct. Q. A nd this is kind o f a sum m ary o f his recom m endations or findings, correct? A . It is. Q. T he second paragraph I think is able to give us a m ore exact idea o f w hen the report, w hich is P laintiff's 17, w as published because he refers to that report in the second paragraph, does he not, M r. A ngelos -- or, I'm sorry, M r. H itchcock does? A . M r. A ngelos evidently review ed the sam ples that w ere provided in E xhibit 17. Q. Okay. D o you know w hy -- w ell, let m e strike that.
W as M r. A ngelos an industrial hygienist if you know?
A. I am not sure. H e w orked for a com pany t h a t 's c a lle d I n d u s tr ia l H y g ie n e S e r v ic e s.
Q. F or Johns M anville Corporation? A. Correct. Q. D o you know w hy Square D is bringing in
1
Is that w hat that Paragraph 5
2 says?
3
A. T hat's w hat it says.
4
Q. If I were a cynical reader after reading
5 Paragraph 5 ,1 m ight think that the industrial
6 hygiene services em ployee o f Johns M anville is
7 instructing Square D how to avoid dust m easurem ents
8 by O SH A . D o you think that's a fair or possible
9 reading o f that paragraph?
10
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to the form.
11
Calls for speculation.
12
Go ahead.
13
TH E W ITN ESS: I would not know.
14 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
15
Q. That paragraph says if the w ork area
1 6 looks clean, they're not gonna actually do dust
17 m easurem ents, doesn't it?
18
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Same objection.
19
TH E W ITNESS: It says if O SHA comes
20
in and it looks clean, they w ill be im pressed;
21
and if they think there's a problem , they'll
22
call in an industrial hygienist.
23
So it's im portant to m aintain a clean
24
w ork area.
25
Page 158
Page 160
an industrial hygiene services person from , o f all com panies, Johns M anville to evaluate their plant?
A. I w ould -- could speculate, but I w on't. T here's no docum entation that says specifically w h y they called in Johns M anville.
Q. A t this tim e was there a certified industrial hygienist em ployed at C edar R apids?
A. I don't know. Q. W as there a certified industrial hygienist em ployed at Square D anyw here? A. I don't know. Q. D o you know w hen Square D first em ployed a certified industrial hygienist? A. I'm sorry, I don't know. Q. L et m e read to you Paragraph 5. These are regarding M r. A ngelos' recom m endations. "He com m ended us on the cleanup action w e had taken and stated O SH A w as im pressed by a clean location. In exam ining areas, such as our m olding operation, O SH A first looks at the cleanliness. If the O SH A inspector feels a problem exists, he will then call in an industrial hygiene specialist to conduct tests. Therefore, it is im portant for us to m aintain a clean w ork area."
1 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
2
Q. On the second page, or Bates stamp
3 13066, there's a Paragraph 7 at the end o f that
4 page. I'm going to read it to you.
5
"Dum ping bags o f m aterial into
6 hoppers --there's nothing w rong w ith this practice
7 since the dust settles quite rapidly and it is not
8 a continuous operation."
9
If that dust contains asbestos
10 fibers, w here do the fibers go? Do you know?
11
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Object to the form.
12
Beyond the scope.
13
Go ahead.
14
TH E W ITNESS: I don't know w here this
15
dust w ould go in this room.
16 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
17
Q. Is there anything to suggest that it
18 leaves the plant?
19
A. I don't know w here the dust is going
20 from this operation. You know, I w asn't there. I
21 don't know what's happening w ith this dust.
22
Q. D o you think that's good advice contained
23 in Paragraph 7?
24
A. The second sentence talks about putting
2 5 an exhaust hose in. A nd it's my understanding that
40 (Pages 157 to 160)
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Page 163
w e took these recom m endations and did a lot o f
1
activities to im prove the dust collection and
2
dust m itigation and cleanliness o f the area.
3
Q. If there's nothing w rong w ith the
4
practice, you w ouldn't need to change it, w ould
5
you?
6
A. I f there's nothing w rong w ith the
7
practice, w e m ay not change it, but w e also -- I
8
know w e did do som e additional w ork in the area.
9
M R. ZUKO W SKI: W e have been going
10
another hour. Do you ju st w ant to take
11
another quick break?
12
M R . B A U M STA R K : Y eah. I'm getting to
13
the end believe --
14
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Okay.
15
M R. BA U M STA RK : - i t or not.
16
M R. ZUKOW SKI: Fair enough.
17
T H E V ID E O G R A PH E R : It is 1:55. W e're
18
off the record.
19
(D iscussion o ff the record.)
20
T H E V ID E O G R A PH E R : T he tim e is 2:11.
21
W e're back on the record.
22
(W hereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit
23
N o. 19 w as m arked for
24
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
25
Page 162
and there's som e texts in parentheses, correct? A. Yes. Q. Okay. The m aterial in the parentheses
states, "This indicates w e have a problem w ith dust filtering dow n from overhead due to the extrem ely heavy accum ulation o f dust overhead, on the equipm ent and the w alls. R ecom m end com plete area cleaning before next test January o f 75."
D id I read that correctly? A. Yes. Q. So at least as o f N ovem ber 21 st o f '74 S quare D w as ex periencing a p roblem w ith dust? A. Y es. T here w as dust in this m olding area in 1974. I don't know w here this is. I don't know w h at plant. It's not clear to m e the context o f this docum ent. Q. W ell, w e know it w asn't the M issouri plant, right, ju st based on the year? A. R ight. Q. A nd w hat w ould m ake you th in k it's a plant other than C edar R apids? A. I don't know. I'm ju st not seeing the context, so it is -- and the docum ent doesn't state som ew here w h at it is.
Page 164
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
1
M R. B A U M STA R K : I'd be shocked if
Q. M iss R edfield, I'll hand you w hat I hope
2
Square D w ould give m e inform ation from other
is the second-to-last exhibit. D o you recognize
3
plants, but that's another issue.
this docum ent?
4 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
A. I do. I don't rem em ber w hat it w as part
5
Q. O kay. I think I'm done w ith that.
of. I do recognize this.
6
W e know that asbestos m olds were
Q. I have m arked that as E xhibit 19 in the
7 used at the Colum bia, M issouri plant, correct? W e
upper, right-hand com er, have I not?
8 have established that today?
A. Yes.
9
A. A sbestos m olding m aterials?
M R. ZUKO W SKI: D o you just w ant to get a
10
Q. Right.
Bates num ber real quick too?
11
A. Yeah.
M R. BA U M STA RK : Yes. The Bates num bers 12
Q. Okay. Y ou have not been able to locate
are 12675 and 12677.
1 3 any dust m easurem ents at that plant, correct, you
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
14 being Square D?
Q. Do I have that right?
15
A. I don't recall any dust m easurem ents,
A. Yes. Are there three pages? Oh, yeah.
1 6 but there is references to dust m easurem ents being
Q. Do w e know who typed this up?
17 collected in the area in the docum ents.
A. I don't. This is -- I think there w ere
18
Q. W here are those references?
som e pages that preceded these in this docum ent
19
A. O ne o f them is in one o f these docum ents
that m ight give it m ore context, but I don't
2 0 here. I think on this one.
recall.
21
Q. Okay. The EPA form?
Q. A nd I have highlighted one entry on
22
A. Uh-hum .
N ovem ber 21st o f '74, correct?
23
Q. W hich --w hat does it say on those
A. Yes.
2 4 m easurem ents, by the way?
Q. A nd there's som e dust m easurem ents
25
A. W hat does it say?
41 (Pages 161 to 164)
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Page 165
Page 167
1
Q. Right.
1 say in w hich m olds are used to actually m ake the
2
A. It says --it's in a chart, an 8 hour
2 circuit breakers? T hat w ould be a decision for
3 tim e weighted average chart.
3 the design engineers?
4
Q. Do I have that m arked as an exhibit?
4
A. I have not seen that testimony.
5
A. Yeah.
5
Q. O kay. M r. K ovar w as not a plastics
6
M R . ZU K O W SK I: It's N o. 14.
6 scientist, w as he?
7
M R. BAUM STARK: 14. Thank you.
7
A . I don't believe he w as.
8 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
8
Q. T hat w as not his area o f expertise?
9
Q. Go ahead, m a'am .
9
A . T h at w a s not his area o f expertise.
10
A. And there is just --it's under Section H
10
Q. D ecisions on w hether or not a product
11 o f the form that was com pleted by Rich W iddowson, 1 1 passes th e tests, failed th e tests, should have
12 if I rem em ber. Section H is about sum m ary o f
12 asbestos, should not, those w ere decisions that
13 current worker exposures.
1 3 w ere m ade in the testing labs, true?
14
And there's a Colum n 8 in there
14
A . I'm sorry, can w e go on e b y on e in
15 that says number o f non-detectable measurements;
15 those?
16 and down there it's populated with the No. 3,
16
Q. Sure.
17 so that indicates to me that there w ere --at som e
17
If a product passes the test that
18 point in tim e there w ere at least three
18 are kind o f discussed in these docum ents, these
19 measurements that w ere conducted.
19 tests are conducted in a laboratory, are they
20
Q. W hat is the last colum n in that indicate
2 0 not?
21 to you? Do you see after it starts from left to
21
A . C orrect.
22 right 1 through 9, correct?
22
Q. O kay. B y scientists?
23
A. Yes.
23
A . B y engineers.
24
Q. And the last one does not have a number;
24
Q. O kay. B y engineers. M r. K ovar w as
25 is that right?
2 5 not an engineer?
Page 166
Page 168
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 i______
A . Yes. Q. A ll right. D oes that say confidential? Confidential, m ark X. A . It does look like that. It's not very legible, but it m ight say confidential, m ark X. Q. A n X is there? A . A n X is there. Q. Is that the only docum ent you have that seem s to indicate som e air m easurem ents w ere done in M issouri? A . T hat's the only one that I could specifically point to right now . Q. W ould you agree that Lyle K ovar had no say in the decision w hether particular circuit breakers w ould be m ade o f asbestos m olds or asbestos-free m olds? T hat w asn't his responsibility for the com pany? A . Y ou know , I'm not sure. H e w as in a very sen ior role in C olu m b ia, so I th in k he m ay have been able to have th at sort o f decision-m aking, but I'm not sure. I m ean, if he w as the p lan t m anager... Q. H ave you seen testim ony from the co-w orkers in this case indicating that the plant m anager or the plant superintendent w ould have no
1
A . I don't know w hat he w as.
2
Q. O kay. I'll ask you --w ell, I'm not
3 going to ask you.
4
These sam e people in the
5 laboratory, these design engineers w ere the ones
6 w ho decided w hether or not a particular com pound
7 passed Square D 's m u ster for use in a circuit
8 breaker?
9
A. It's m y understanding that the engineers
10 w ould determ ine w hether or not a vendor m et
11 specifications.
12
Q. O kay. Let's go to T opic H on m edical
13 m onitoring.
14
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Y ou said Topic H?
15
M R. BAUM STARK: Yes.
16
M R. ZU K O W SK I: Is that abatem ent?
17
M R. BA UM STARK: Can I see the notice?
18
N o, that's not the notice I don't think.
19
M R. ZU K O W SK I: The notice says Corporate
20
V ideo D eposition, D efendant Square D.
21
THE W ITNESS: A re there tw o different --
22
M R. ZU K O W SK I: This w as the first. Y ou
23
changed them , I take it, apparently.
24
M R. BA U M STA RK : I gave A nthony one.
25
I don't rem em ber w hen I first gave it
42 (Pages 165 to 168)
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to you A nthony, but then I served one --the
1 stam p 12693.
one that --
2
A. 12 w hat?
I gave him one so that he could get
3
Q. 12693.
m e som e objections in a tim ely fashion, w hich
4
A . T h a n k you . Y es, I th in k this w as related
n ev er cam e until yesterday, so th at's the
5 to a d ifferen t citation. T his is a d ifferen t date
actual notice.
6 that predates the other one.
M R. ZU K O W SK I: Okay.
7
Q. O kay. B u t it's a n O S H A v iolation
M R . B A U M ST A R K : C an I ju s t see it ju st
8 nonetheless, true?
real quick? A ll right. Sorry about that.
9
A . It is.
BY MR. BAUM STARK:
10
Q. Okay. F or no w ritten procedure for
Q. N ew question. In 1973 Square D w as
11 the selection and use o f respirators?
cited by O S H A for failure to m edically screen its
12
A . It is.
asbestos exposed em ployees and provide annual
13
Q. Okay. They w ere also cited for failure
m edical exam s; is th at correct?
14 to take air sam ples for asbestos fibers properly
A . I have seen th at citation.
1 5 for em ployees in the preform and m olding areas. Is
Q. O kay. T hey w ere also cited for failure
1 6 that true? 12703.
to keep m edical records for a prescribed am ount o f 17
A. T hank you. Yes.
tim e, true?
18
Q. D id Square D ever have a m edical
A . I d on't recall th at citation.
1 9 m onitoring file on M r. K ovar?
Q . I'll h an d y o u w h a t I'm g o ing to m ark
20
A. I have not seen one produced.
as 20.
21
Q. O kay. W e have asked for it, right?
(W hereupon, P lain tiffs E xhibit
22
A . Yes.
N o. 20 w as m arked for
23
Q. A nd Square D cannot produce it, fair?
Identification, 07/02/2014.)
24
A . W e have n ot been able to identify one.
25
Q. Likew ise, Square D does not have
Page 170
Page 172
BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
1 Lyle K ovar's em ploym ent or personnel file?
Q. A nd I'll ju st ask you to turn --I'll
2
A. Correct.
ask you to identify the docum ent first.
3
Q . A nd w e have asked fo r it.
A. This is a docum ent, U.S. D epartm ent o f
4
A. I assume.
Labor, O SH A notification o f proposed penalty dated
5
Q. A nd Square D cannot produce it or you
June 4th, 1973.
6 would have?
Q. And, just for the record, these are
7
A. Correct.
Bates stam ped 12683 through 12704. Do I have that
8
Q. Do you have any docum entary evidence
right?
9 indicating that M r. K ovar w as educated about the
A. Yes.
10 hazards o f asbestos exposure?
Q. Take your time.
11
A. T he only docum entation I have that
A. Yes. I'm not counting each page, but
12 relates M r. K ovar to asbestos and the hazards o f
that's where it starts and ends.
13 asbestos are m em os in th e file w h ere w e're talking
Q. On the last page o f Plaintiffs 20,
14 about asbestos as it relates to the M issouri
there's a violation description. The em ployer did
15 facility. That's the docum entation that w e have.
not m aintain com plete and accurate records o f all
16
Q. A nd these are the docum ents w here
m edical exams. These records shall be maintained
17 M r. K ovar w as copied on, correct?
for at least 20 years, correct?
18
A. Correct.
A. Correct.
19
Q. W e have discussed these docum ents
Q. So that's w hat I w as referring to.
20 today?
A. Okay.
21
A. Correct.
Q. Square D was also cited for failure
22
Q. Y ou spoke to M r. W iddow son?
to have a w ritten procedure for the selection
23
A . I did.
and use o f respirators in the plant and no
24
Q. M r. W iddow son was unable to tell you
m aintenance o f the same; is that fair? Bates
2 5 about any training regarding asbestos hazards
43 (Pages 169 to 172)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 173
Page 175
1 that M r. K ovar received?
2
A . So as M r. W iddow son described training
3 in th e area, training in a particular area, w h eth er
4 it's the fab area or the assem bly area or the
5 plating area w ould have been conducted by the
6 supervisor or the area leader, w hatever it w ould
7 be called at that tim e, and that training w ould be
8 all encom passing.
9
It w ould be, "H ere's how you make
10 your thing." O r, "H ere's how you do you r thing."
11 A nd, "H ere's the proper, you know , protective
12 equipm ent or procedures or ventilation," or
13 w hatever to be provided.
14
It w ould have been kind o f an
15 integrated training. T here w ouldn't have been
1 6 necessarily at that tim e like a separate training
17 that w ould say, "H ere's the safety training versus
18 here's the operational training."
19
Q. W as there any safety training on
2 0 asbestos in particular that he described to you?
21
A. H e didn't specifically describe an
2 2 asbestos safety training. A t that tim e w e w ould
2 3 have, you know , training integrated w ith the
2 4 operations.
25
So, for instance if you're in the
1
A. I have N o. 1.
2
Q. Let m e hand you w hat w e previously
3 m arked as No. 2, all right?
4
A. Oh. Okay.
5
Q. Sorry to go out o f order.
6
A. Yes. This is No. 1 --No. 2.
7
Q. A nd these are D efendant Schneider
8 Electric, U SA form erly know n as Square D Company,
9 Second Supplem ental Responses to Plaintiffs
10 Interrogatories, correct?
11
A. This is the one m ore recently provided,
12 yes.
13
Q. A nd you're okay w ith the answ ers that
14 are provided in here; is that correct?
15
A. I have read these, and I agree with the
16 answers.
17
Q. Interrogatory 2 asks with respect to the
18 em ploym ent o f M r. Kovar, identify the work
19 perform ed --
20
A. H ang on. I'm still on objections.
21
Q. Sorry about that.
22
A. Okay. No. 2.
23
Q. There's no page num ber, so I can't --
24
A. No page numbers.
25
Q. W ith respect to your em ploym ent o f
Page 174
Page 176
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Li!
plating area you're not gonna get any training ab out necessarily som ethin g that's not related to w orking in the plating area.
Q. D id he tell you there was any training at all reg ard in g asbestos in M issouri, w h eth er it's general training, specific training, any kind o f training?
A . So he w orked in the plating area, so, you know , he couldn't speak specifically to the training th at w ou ld have been provided in the fabrication or the m olding area, but that's how he described it w ould be conducted.
Q. A nd he did not describe asbestos training in the plating area?
A . H e did n ot describe it to m e. Q. D id M r. V osdingh describe any asbestos training at C edar R apids or M issouri? A . N o. H e w as not able to describe that. Q. Som e o f these rog answ ers I w ant to go over and then I'm done.
M R. B A U M STA R K : H ave I m arked the Second Set o f Supplem ental R esponses? BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. D o you have N o. 2, M iss Redfield, or do I?
1 Lyle C. Kovar, identify C, the jo b titles; and D,
2 the w ork perform ed on w hich M r. K ovar was expected
3 to perform while at each o f the facilities on the
4 dates identified.
5
A nd w e're talking about the
6 Cedar Rapids plant, the training facility and the
7 C olum bia plant; is th at fair?
8
A. W ell, again just that training facility.
9
Q. You're right. Okay.
10
So w e're talking about, at least
11 in your m ind --
12
A. Cedar Rapids.
13
Q. - the Cedar Rapids plant and the
14 Columbia, M issouri plant, right?
15
A. Yes.
16
Q. Okay. So part o f the answer here at
17 the very bottom o f the page w here num ber --the
18 second interrogatory is posed --again they're not
19 num bered -- this is the answer, "In his positions
2 0 in m anagem ent, Mr. K ovar was responsible for, among
2 1 other things, supervising em ployees, identifying
2 2 potential w orkplace hazards and ensuring the safety
2 3 o f em ployees. M r. K ovar's responsibilities also
2 4 included the developm ent and im plem entation o f
2 5 w orkplace safety practices."
44 (Pages 173 to 176)
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Page 177
Page 179
A . M y paging is d ifferen t from you r paging. Sorry. M ine actually starts on the other page, so can you do that again?
Q. Sure. A . I'm at the top o f this page. G o ahead. I'm listening. Q. It starts at the bottom on m y copy. A. O n m y copy it starts up here. Q. Okay. B ut have you read that answ er, or do I need to read it again? A . I h ave read it. I can read it again to rem ind m yself. Q . O kay. W hy d on't y o u go ahead and do th at th en I'll pose a question. A. Yes. Q. If M r. K ovar is no t educated about the hazards o f asbestos exposure, how can he identify the potential w orkplace hazards o f asbestos exposure in the plants w here he w orked?
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to form . A ssum es facts.
Go ahead. T H E W IT N E S S: Y eah, so I didn't say he w as n o t educated. I said w e didn't have any docum entation o f that.
1
M R. BAUM STARK: Oh. I'm sorry about
2
that. Okay.
3 BY MR. BAUMSTARK:
4
Q. In your discussions w ith M r. Vosdingh and
5 M r. W iddowson, they did not tell you that Mr. Kovar
6 was educated about the hazards o f asbestos
7 exposure?
8
A. They did not know w hether or not he was
9 educated or not educated.
10
Q. Okay. So you have no evidence --
11
A. One w ay or the other.
12
Q. Y ou have no evidence that it occurred,
13 do you?
14
A. W e have no evidence one w ay or the other
15 whether or not he would have been specifically
16 educated, how ever, I m ean, he did w ork his w ay up
17 through the organization, and he worked in som e o f
18 these areas and so he would have picked up that
19 training and that education through on-the-job
20 training.
21
Q. This com ing from a com pany who did not
22 even know asbestos was in its com pounds until 1972
2 3 to '74, is that w hat you're asking us to believe
24 today?
25
A. I'm saying that the training that's
Page 178
Page 180
BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q . Y ou don't have any w itness testim ony to
support that, do you? A . I do not. B ut I w ouldn't m ake the
assum ption that he is not educated. Q. W ell, again there is no docum ents to
prove he w as educated, correct? A. T here are no docum ents that w ere found. Q . T here is no testim ony, sw orn testim ony
to indicated he w as educated, correct? A . T hat's correct. Q. Y ou had conversations w ith Square D
em ployees, form er em ployees, and they haven't provided you any inform ation on that, correct?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bject to form. M ischaracterizes. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. R egarding asbestos specifically they w ere not able to tell you that M r. K ovar was educated about the hazards o f asbestos, w ere they? A . I d on't know . I didn't review those. Q. W ait a m inute.
M R . Z U K O W SK I: Y ou said form er. That's the problem .
1 provided to our em ployees was done at the
2 production level and through w orking at the
3 production level. And if you w ork at the Square D
4 organization and you worked up, you take that
5 know ledge w ith you and you --you know, there's a
6 significant am ount o f on-the-job training that
7 occurs in our organization and others.
8
Q. A nd you can't point m e to one single
9 docum ent --
10
A. I cannot point to a document.
11
Q. -- that would reflect any o f that
12 training regarding asbestos?
13
A. I cannot point to a document.
14
Q. That inform ation m ight be in a personnel
15 file, w ouldn't it?
16
A. I can't speculate on that.
17
Q. W hat docum ents have you seen indicating
18 precautions, advisories or warnings regarding
19 asbestos w ere provided to Square D employees at
20 the Cedar Rapids facility?
21
A. I have not seen any documents
22 specifically to that effect as that type o f thing
23 would have been inform al, especially prior to 1985
2 4 w hen H A ZC O M w as put into place.
25
Q. W hat is H A ZCO M ?
45 (Pages 177 to 180)
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Page 181
Page 183
A . The hazardous com m unication rule w as a
1
rule around --specifically around requiring
2
em ployers to inform and provide inform ation
3
related to chem icals that they're w orking w ith.
4
So in 1985 things becam e m uch m ore
5
form alized and docum ented. Prior to 1985, things
6
w ere m ore inform al. T hat type o f training w as
7
m uch m ore inform al.
8
Q. I'm a little confused here. A re you
9
saying that - and if I'm m isquoting you, you're
10
gonna let me know I know.
11
B ut are you saying that until 1985
12
an em ployer w as not required to post and give
13
w ritten w arnings regarding asbestos exposure in
14
the w orkplace?
15
A . N o, prior to 1985 it's not required to be
16
a docum ented program , so you're still required to 17
do it, but you're not required to m aintain that
18
docum entation.
19
Q. W ell, w e have seen docum ents in this case
20
that go back to the late 50s, haven't w e?
21
A. I don't think I have review ed docum ents
22
prior to the 1970s.
23
Q. Y ou don't rem em ber looking at docum ents
24
in the late 50s that discussed the sorts o f m olding
25
Page 182
Q. Do you know w hen they em ployed a m edical director?
A. I do not know if we did employ a medical
director. Q. D o you have a m edical director today? A. W e do not have a m edical director today. Q. W hy not? A. I can't answ er that question. Q. D o you think a com pany the size that
Square D was in the 70s ought to have em ployed a m edical director?
M R. ZU K O W SK I: O bjection, beyond the scope. Calls for speculation.
But go ahead. T H E W ITN ESS: I can't com m ent on the appropriateness o f a m edical director being part o f our o rgan ization in th e 1 9 7 0 s. I'm not sure that was com m on practice. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. O ne final question, in an answ er to Interrogatory 58, w hich is --w ell, I don't know , w e're dealing w ith different copies. C ould you turn to - strike all that. A. 58. Yep. Q. M iss Redfield, are you looking at
Page 184
presses that w ere being purchased for use at the
1 Interrogatory 58 right now?
C edar R apids plant?
2
A. I am.
A. I did not review those in depth. I m ay
3
Q. A nd the question is did you provide
have flipped through those, but I did not review
4 Lyle K ovar w ith any w arning or caution or like
those.
5 inform ation concerning any o f the following:
Q. W hy w ould Square D keep docum ents
6 A sbestos m aterials, possible health effects,
regarding the purchase o f equipm ent and the sorts
7 hazards, TLV s and recom m endations relating to
o f docum ents w e have seen today and not keep
8 w orking around or w ith asbestos products, right?
w ritten w arnings about the dangers and hazards
9 T hat's th e question.
o f asbestos that w ere provided to their
10
A . It is.
em ployees?
11
Q. Okay. A nd part o f the answ er eight
A. I'm sorry, I can't answ er that question.
12 or nine lines down, "As a supervisory em ployee and
Q. I think m y previous question only
1 3 later as a plant m anager, M r. K ovar's know ledge
addressed C edar Rapids, so I w ant to pose the sam e
14 and aw areness regarding these issues was consistent
question about M issouri.
1 5 w ith S quare D 's know ledge and aw areness," true?
A gain you have seen nothing in
16
A . T hat's w h at it says.
w riting indicating that w ritten w arnings were
17
Q. D o you agree w ith that?
provided to em ployees o f C olum bia or that they were 18
A. I do.
w arned about the hazards o f asbestos exposure other 1 9
Q. W hat is your support for that?
than the m em os w here M r. K ovar was copied?
20
A . K now ing how our organization w orks
A. No. I have not seen any specific
21 and --
docum ents, and that's, you know ...
22
Q. Today or back then?
Q. Okay. Y ou don't know w hen Square D first
23
A . -- seeing th e d ocum ents th at had his
em ployed a certified industrial hygienist?
24 name
A . I'm not sure w hen that w as.
2 5 on them that w ere discussing asbestos.
46 (Pages 181 to 184)
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l L
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Page 187
Q. So you're --the only docum entary
1 about asbestos?
evidence you have in support for this answ er are
2
A. I didn't ask that question.
the docum ents that he w as copied on in the late
3
Q. Y ou didn't ask that question o f those
70s?
4 tw o witnesses?
A . I don't recall the specific dates. I'm
5
A. I did not.
not good w ith dates.
6
Q. They didn't tell you that M r. K ovar was
Q. These were the docum ents w here it was
7 ever educated?
being --strike that.
8
A. They did not.
These are the docum ents regarding
9
Q. Y ou understood going in that M r. Kovar
the efforts to get asbestos out o f the m olding
10 died o f an asbestos disease, right?
com pound in use at the M issouri plant, right?
11
A. I know that he died o f m esotheliom a.
A. Right.
12
Q. And you had an opportunity to talk to two
Q. That's your only docum entary support
13 people who either knew Mr. Kovar or worked with him
for this answer?
14 back in the day, right?
A . W ell, I go back to how w e described the
15
A. Y es, I did.
training that w ould occur in the m anufacturing
16
Q. A nd you did not ask either o f them if
process and having it integrated w ith the, you
17 Square D educated them about the dangers and risks
know , the overall safety and environm ent training. 18 associated w ith asbestos exposure at the tim e?
A s the m anager over the fabrication departm ent in C edar R apids, he should have been
19
A. I did not ask them . This m atter is not
20 in relation to them.
aw are o f those things. T hat w ould have been part 21
Q. That's one w ay to look at it.
o f his, you know , his responsibilities in that
22
Okay. I'm done, guys.
capacity.
23
M R. ZUKOW SKI: A nybody else? Anybody
Q. A gain he can't fulfill any
24
on the phone?
responsibilities he has if he has not been
25
M R. BESHORE: I'm ju st gonna ask a
Page 186
Page 188
educated, true? A . I'm sorry, can you state th at again? Q. H e cannot fulfill any responsibilities
he m ay or m ay not have as plant m anager, plant superintendent regarding the risks o f asbestos exposure if he has not been educated about those risks?
M R . ZU K O W SK I: O bject to form . It assum es facts.
Go ahead. TH E W ITN ESS: H e w ould have had on-the-job training. BY MR. BAUMSTARK: Q. A nd you base that upon w hat, the conversations you had w ith M r. V osdingh and M r. W iddow son? A . T hat's correct. Q . A n d that's th e o n ly th in g y o u base th at on? A . T hat's correct. Q. A nd neither o f them told you that they w ere ever educated about asbestos, right? A . I don't think w e asked - - 1 don't think w e discussed that. Q. D id they tell you they w ere educated
1
couple.
2
T H E V ID EO G R A PH ER : It's 2:43. W e're
3
o ff the record.
4
(Discussion o ff the record.)
5
TH E V ID EO G RA PH ER: The tim e is 2:44.
6
W e're back on the record.
7
EXAM INATION
8 BY MR. BESHORE:
9
Q . H i, M iss R ed field . I'm S teve B esh o re. I
10 represent one o f the defendants, Cytec Engineered
11 M aterials, w hich if you looked through docum ents
12 w ould have been associated w ith A m erican Cyanamid.
13
A nd it's your testim ony that you only
14 skim m ed the three depositions o f M r. K ovar's
15 co-workers, correct?
16
A. That's correct.
17
Q. A nd Mr. Baum stark asked you if you had
18 any reason to doubt the truthfulness o f the
19 testim ony o f those three co-workers, and you
20 replied you had no reason to doubt their
21 truthfulness.
22
A. I had no reason to doubt them.
23
Q. Is it your understanding that there were
24 asbestos m olding com pounds as w ell as non-asbestos
25 m olding compounds used at Square D throughout their
47 (Pages 185 to 188)
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history?
1
A. Yes.
2
Q. So if a w itness testified that he
3
believed all m olding com pounds used at Square D
4
w ere asbestos containing, th at w ould be
5
incorrect?
6
A. I'm sorry, state that again, please.
7
Q. If a w itness testified that he believed
8
all the m olding com pounds used at Square D w ere
9
asbestos containing, th at w ould be incorrect?
10
M R . B A U M S T A R K : I'll o b ject to the
11
form .
12
T H E W IT N E SS: I w ould say th at is his
13
belief.
14
BY MR. BESHORE:
15
Q . C orrect. Y ou have no reason --
16
A. But that fact I would not agree with.
17
Q . O kay. A n d th a t w as m y q uestion. T hat's
18
all I have.
19
M R. BAUM STARK: Okay.
20
EX A M IN A TIO N
21
BY MS. NEW TON:
22
Q . G ood m o rn in g , m a'am . M y n am e is
23
A lexa N ew ton, and I am an attorney representing
24
Plastics E ngineering C om pany. I have som e
25
Page 190
questions about M r. Kovar's jo b duties.
1
Do you know w hat his job duties
2
are with regard to enforcing corporate policies
3
when he was in the assembly departm ent at
4
Cedar Rapids?
5
A. A t Cedar Rapids in the assem bly
6
departm ent he was an hourly em ployee, so he would
7
have been responsible for com plying, not
8
necessarily for enforcing.
9
Q. Do you know --and he was a member of
10
the union at that tim e, correct?
11
A. He was.
12
Q. W hat about when he became a lead man,
13
w hat were his responsibilities as to enforcing
14
policies o f Square D?
15
A. I'm sorry, I don't know w hat a lead man
16
would have done.
17
Q. Do you know if that was a union
18
position?
19
A . I d on 't.
20
Q. Do you know if he had any
21
responsibilities regarding the safety o f his
22
co-w orkers?
23
A. As a lead man?
24
Q. Correct.
25
A. I can't comment on that.
Q. W hen M r. K ovar becam e an assem bly forem an o r th e su p erv iso r assem bly -- it's been referred to as a couple different ways -- do you know if he had any responsibilities w ith regard to enforcing corporate policies?
M R. B A U M STA R K : O bject to the form. F oundation. B ased o n h er testim o n y it's com plete and utter speculation.
T H E W IT N E SS: Y eah, I really can't com m ent on w hat that position w ould have been back then. Today certainly. BY MS. NEW TON: Q. A nd do you know w hat those responsibilities are today?
M R. B A U M STA R K : Sam e objection. T H E W ITN ESS: So it is an area supervisor's responsibility to fully enforce our safety and environm ental procedures and practices in addition to the operational ones, right. BY MS. NEW TON: Q. D oes an assem bly forem an belong to the union --did an assem bly forem an belong to the union in the 1960s?
Page 192
M R . B A U M S T A R K : I'll o b ject to th e form . F oundation. C alls for speculation.
T H E W IT N E S S : It's m y u n d erstan d in g that w hen L yle K ovar w as a forem an in the assem bly area at C edar R apids, that he w as a salaried position and that w ould have not been a union position. BY MS. NEW TON: Q. A nd w hen he becam e a general forem an then at C edar R apids, he w ould not have been a union person again?
A. He would not have been in the union.
Q . A s a general forem an at C edar R apids, w hat w ere his responsibilities regarding corporate policies?
M R . B A U M ST A R K : O bjection. Form . M R . Z U K O W SK I: O bjection. A sked and answ ered. M R . B A U M STA R K : I object to the form . Foundation. B ased on h er testim ony, calls for speculation. TH E W ITN ESS: A ll right. C ould you repeat that, please? BY MS. NEW TON: Q . I could.
48 (Pages 189 to 192)
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 21 2 2 23 2 4 I 25
Page 193
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Subject to these objections that
1
have ju st been m ade, w hen M r. Kovar was the general
2
forem an at C edar R apids, w hat w ere his
3
responsibilities regarding safety policies at the
4
C edar Rapids plant?
5
A. The sam e answ er, that I can't really
6
com m ent on exactly w h at his responsibilities w ere
7
then. I have asked, and I have not been able to
8
determ ine that.
9
B ut today that level o f
10
responsibility w ould be expected to enforce all
11
the safety and op erational procedures in his area. 1 2
M S. N EW TO N : Those are all m y questions.
13
Thank you.
14
M R. ZUKO W SKI: A nybody else?
15
Anybody on the phone?
16
W e will read and sign.
17
TH E V ID EO G R A PH ER : The tim e is now
18
2:49 p.m . This is the end o f M edia 2. This
19
concludes this deposition. W e're o ff the
20
record.
21
(D iscussion o ff the record.)
22
(W H EREU PO N , the following
23
proceedings w ere had o ff the
24
video record:)
25
it, that's all right. MS. NEW TON: Thank you. M R . B A U M S T A R K : I f you're okay w ith it.
That's up to you. M R . Z U K O W SK I: I'm sorry? M S. N EW TO N : W ithdraw E xhibit 5 from the
official transcript until w e talk to the judge about the confidentiality.
M R. ZUKO W SKI: Sure. A nd F urther D eponent Saith N ot...
Page 194
Page 196
M R . Z U K O W S K I: W e're ju s t going b ack on
1
2
DEPONENTS CERTIFICATE
the record real quick.
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS
W e are going to go back on the
3
STATE OF MISSOURI
TWENTY-SECOND JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
record. W e are going to attach -- A nthony w ill provide them to you -- M r. Springfield
4
JEFF KOVAR,
5
Plaintiff,
) )
w ill provide them to you, the objections that w ere filed yesterday to the deposition
-vs-
) No. I322-CC01123
6 SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC USA, et )
at,
)
notice. I think they could be the last
7
Defendants.
)
8
exhibit, w hich I think is 2 1 .
I, MICHELLE REDFIELD, having been first
j
M R . B A U M S T A R K : A n d , f o r th e r e c o r d , 9 dfourleygsowinogrntr,aonnscoraiptht,osftathtee ttheasttiImhoanvyegrievaedntbhye me j
w e'll o b ject to th e objections th a t w ere filed, I believe, yesterday.
10 at my deposition on July 2,2014, and that said transcript constitutes a true and correct record of
11 the testimony given by me at said deposition except
C ounsel for Square D has had this deposition notice, if n o t in the exact form it
as I have so indicated on the errata sheets 12 provided herein for such. 13
w as filed, in substantially th e sam e form for
14
w eeks and th ey w aited 'til th e last day to file it, so I'll o b ject to th e o bjections, how ever she did answ er the questions. I think it's essen tially m oot, hopefully.
M S. N E W T O N : I know you disagree that it's co n fid en tial, b u t can w e w ith d raw it until w e talk to the court about it?
M R . B A U M S T A R K : O kay. T h at's fine. I'm
15
MICHELLE REDFIELD
16
17
No corrections (please initial):
18 Number of errata sheets submitted:
pgs.
19
20
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO
21 before me this
dav
of
2014.
22
23
n o t co n ced in g th a t I b eliev e it's co n fid en tial b ecau se I don't; b u t i f y o u w an t to w ith d raw
2 4
Notary Public
25
49 (Pages 193 to 196)
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 197
1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
2
) SS:
3 COUNTY O F C O O K )
4
I, Allison D. Weber, a notary public within
5 and for the County o f Cook County and State o f
6 Illinois, do hereby certify that heretofore,
7 to-wit, on July 2,2014, personally appeared before
8 me, at 70 West Madison, Suite 3000, Chicago,
9 Illinois, MICHELLE REDFIELD, in a cause now pending
10 and undetermined in the Circuit Court for the City
11 o f St. Louis, State o f Missouri, wherein
12 JEFF KOVAR, is the Plaintiff, and SCHNEIDER
13 ELECTRIC USA, et al., are the Defendants.
14
I further certify that the said witness was
15 first duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole
16 truth and nothing but the truth in the cause
17 aforesaid; that the testimony then given by said
18 witness was reported stenographically by me in the
1 9 presence o f the said witness, and afterwards
2 0 reduced to typewriting by Computer-Aided
2 1 Transcription, and the foregoing is a true and
2 2 correct transcript o f the testimony so given by
2 3 said witness as aforesaid.
24
I further certify that the signature to the
2 5 foregoing deposition was reserved by counsel for
Page 198
1 the respective parties.
2
I further certify that the taking o f this
3 deposition was pursuant to notice, and that there
4 were present at the deposition the attorneys
5 hereinbefore mentioned.
6
I further certify that I am not counsel for
7 nor in any way related to the parties to this suit,
8 nor am I in any way interested in the outcome
9 thereof.
10
IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF: I have hereunto set my
11 hand and affixed my notarial seal this 6th day o f
12 July, 2014.
13
14
15
16
17
_________________________________________
18
NOTARY PUBLIC, COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS
19
20
21
22
23
24
I 25_______________________________________________________
50 (P ag es 197 t o 198)
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Page 199
A
abatement 168:16 abdominal 135:10 a b ilit ie s 138:6
144 1 R abl o1(5*9S ?1
*?? 4 4 1 n 62:9 82:11 84:6 R6 1 4 R9 186*17 1679 164 1 ? 1 6 6 ?D 171*24 174 1fi 17R19 1 9?R
a b o v e e n title d 104 :5
ab solu tely 59:5 accept 136:4
144:16,?? 145:1 acceptable 112:15 acceptance 147:20 accepting 18:2 accepts 145:3 a c c e ss 94: 6 95:13
accum ulation 163:6 accuracy 43:19
68:7 122:22 accurate 63:18,22
75:18 93:6 170:16 achieve 33:3 achieved 33:4,6,8 acquired 13:12 action 158:18 a c t iv it ie s 91:8 97:2 161:2 a c tiv ity 38:8 actu al 14:5 37:11 44:25 169:6 added 62:9 ad d ition 62:21 191:20 ad d ition al 161:9 addressed 182:14 adds 62:21 adduced 47:21 adequate 145:16 adopted 113:9 114:10 advice 160:22 advised 122:7 141:9 145:7 a d v iso ries 180:18 a ffix e d 198:11 a f f lic t in g 135:4 aforesaid 197:17 197:23 a frica 42:6 afternoon 4:14 105:1 137:13 agencies 42:12 agency 108:17 agent 54:3 134:15 ago 8:19 21:3 133:12 agree 17: 4 20:18 45:5 50:14
51:21 53:18 54:12 55:12,18 56:14 75:20,23 143:25 144:6,11
166:13 175:15 184:17 189:17
agreed 7:1 agreem ent 7: 7 agrees 53:20 ahead 21:19 33:16
37:21 54:16 56:8 57:5 67:7 72:22 77:23 81:13 93:10,22 95:20 96:7 102:19 109:22 110:8 111:1 116:5 121:20 124:10 125:18 126:12 134:5 143:21 145:10 159:12 160:13 165:9 177:5,13 177:22 183:14
186:10 a ir 19:11 114:25
115:3,8 131:14 132:3 148:7 149:5 153:21 154:1,5,10
166:9 171:14 airborne 3:13,15
90:23 91:25 95:24 96:21
99:23 130:25 131:17 153:20 airpark 25:8,13 al 1:7 4:7 7:15 196:6 197:13 alexa 5:6 57:4 189:24 a lien 5:15 a lliso n 1:15 4:15 7:4,23 197:4 am erica 11:16,23 12:5 14:7,9 29:17 41:14
112:20 am erican 150:18
188:12 amount 56:19 75:4
84:17 169:17 180:6 amounts 135:16
153:20 a n a l y s i s 14 9 :6 anderson 21:11
84:23 122:16 a n g elo s 157 :1,1 3
157:15,19 158:17 annual 169:13 answer 9:1 20:8,10 20:18 33:16 37:8 40:20 43:22 52:7 56:7 56:9 57:12 58:5 63:11 72:22
80:21,22 81:22 82:1 90:21,25 91:5,10,11,14 96:1 102:8
124:3 137:24 145:15 150:21
176:16,19 177:9 182:12 183:8,20 184:11 185:2,14 193:6 194:18 answered 140:12 155:17 192:18 answers 2:22 9:9
16:20 17:5 18:8 18:14 24:18 36:23,24 57:14 74:2 146:3 174:19 175:13 175:16 anthony 6:9 73:15 168:24 169:1 194:4 a n ticip a ted 68:16 anybody 187 : 23,23
193:15,16 ap ologize 14:8 apparent 69:4
150:24 apparently 41:6
92:24 153:11,19 168:23 appear 30:1 62:18 150:13
appearance 134:19 appeared 197:7 appearing 5 :4 ,8 ,1 3
5:17,22 6:3,7
6:11,16 135:5 appears 59:24
62:14 71:21 72:1 95:22 99:5 101:9 128:17 appreciation 56:18 appropriate 94:21 95:22 a p p r o p r ia te n e ss 183:16 approved 100:1,11 100:13,15 approxim ately 14:8 59:14 a p ril 3:10,14 19:12 101:12 156:20 157:2
area 14:12 26:20 36:12,15,18 37:2,5 156:22 158:25 159:15 159:24 161:3,9 163:8,15 164:17 167:8,9 173:3,3 173:4,4,5,6 174:1,3,8,11,14 191:17 192:5 193:12
areas 137:21
158:20 171:15 179:18
arent 73:3 argum entative
140 : 11 arrived 17:24 art 125:24 a r tic le 43:6
131 : 16 132:10 135 :20 a r tic le s 125:13 asbestos 3:8,9,10 3:12,15 19:9,13 20: 16 2 7 : 3 ,8
28: 10 3 2:19,21
33: 14 35: 23 42: 18,22 50:22 51: 19,21 52:10 52: 1 2 , 1 5 ,1 6 ,1 9 52: 23,25 5 3 :1 ,1 53: 6 , 7 , 9 , 1 1 , 1 3 53: 18 5 4 : 2 , 1 3 54: 19,21 55:1 55: 1 3 ,1 4 ,1 5 56: 19 62:16 64: 3 ,1 9 69:19
70: 11,15 7 1 :2 ,3 71: 7 72:25 76: 16 77:3,14 77: 19 78:11 79: 22 80:6 81:8 82: 15 83:11,22 83: 24 84:10,17 85: 5 87:14,17
88: 3 89:8 91:24
97: 12 98:20 99: 6 , 1 3 , 2 1 100 :8,10 101:9 102 : 3 , 1 1 , 1 6
103 : 2 , 1 5 , 1 9 106 :1 107:21 108 : 4 , 9 , 9 , 1 0 , 2 5 108 :25 1 09:5,15 110 :15,18 111:3 112 : 1 2 , 1 3 , 1 5 , 1 6 112 :17 113:6,11 113 :19 114:9,23 116 : 2 , 3 , 1 5 , 1 6 121 :25 123:9,11 123 :1 5,20 125:2 125 :15,24 126:9 126 :16,23 127:3 127 :6 1 2 8 : 8 , 1 3 128 :1 5 ,1 9 ,2 2 129 :4,20 130:5 130 :25 131:9,12 131 :17,21 132:1 132 : 6 , 1 2 ,1 4 ,1 9 133 : 3 , 1 5 , 1 6 134 : 13,17 135:7 135 :1 3 ,1 6 ,1 8 136 : 5 , 8 ,9 ,1 2 ,1 8 139 : 1 0 , 1 3 , 1 5 , 2 0 140 : 1 , 5 , 9 , 2 0 141 : 5 , 8 , 1 1 , 1 8 141 : 2 1 ,2 4 ,2 5 142 '.2 , 1 , 1 0 , 1 3 142 :2 1,25 143:1 143 : 7 146:6 147 : 24 1 4 8 : 3 , 9
148:15 149:19 150:1,7 151:7 151:14,16,24
152:7,15,20 153:13,18,22 154:2,5,15 155:11,12 156:4
160:9 164:6,9 166:15 167:12 169:13 171:14 172:10,12,13,14 172:25 173:20
173:22 174:5,13 174:16 177:17 177:18 178:18 178:20 179:6,22 180:12,19 181:14 182:10
182:19 184:6,8 184:25 185:10 186:5,22 187:1 187:10,18 188:24 189:5,10 asb estoscon tai.. .
21:16 60:20,25 61:23 62:24 63:5,23 66:6 77:7 96:11 139:8 a s b e s to s fr e e 86:21
87:21 152:22 166:16 a s b e s t o s is 123:18
125:5,14 133:12
a s h l e y 78:13,13 79:9,10
asked 25:25 28:19 31:10,12 47:2,5 70:18 72:14 93:17 108:15 139:2,3 140:11 145:4 146:8,9 146:11 149:19 171:21 172:3 186:23 188:17 192:17 193:8
asking 55:12 61:6 75:23 108:3 127:9 136:11,14 136:16 138:17 143:16 179:23
asks 175:17 assem bly 36:12
45:6,9,12,15,18 45:23 46:1 173:4 190:4,6 191:2,3,23,24 192:5 associated 11:25 123:8 187:18 188:12 a sso cia tio n 10:14 10:18 assume 9:2 11:3 62:6 81:4 110:13 137:11
149:8,15 150:18 172:4
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
Page 200
assumes 81:12 93:8 93:21 95:19 110:6,25 118:1 118:21 120:6 121:19 122:3 126:11 129:5 134:3 137:10 138:12 140:11 148:1 177:21 186:9
assum ing 59:25 61:13 70:4 137:14
assum ption 69:25 70:4 178:5
assum ptions 63:8 a sterisk 155:9 a ste r isk s 155:7 atmosphere 69:20
71:3,7 135:17 156:23 attach 194:4 attached 43:5 106:15 107:6 112:25 114:4 attach es 60:13 attachm ents 2:17 attacks 135:8 attem pt 57:12 attending 25:12 a tten tio n 59:1 65:9 107:25 a tte s t 122:25 attorney 85:13 189:24 attorneys 17:14 34:12,14 198:4 atwood 117:4 august 100:19 author 151:4 authored 149:16 autom atic 80:18 a v a ila b le 40:4 avenue 5:3 6:2 average 165:3 av ia tio n 41:16 avoid 159:7 aware 19:1 43:9 48:2,5 56:22 77:17,18,24 84:25 89:19 112:11 120:16 121:13 123:8,11 123:13,14 124:21 125:3 127:6 128:3,12 128:18 142:1 146:2 153:12 155:12 185:21 awareness 184:14 184:15 aw hile 133:6
________ B_____
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POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
37:10 173:6
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POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
G7:14 7 2: 2 3
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________ Z_______
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146:7,20 148:1 151:25 153:8 155:1,14 159:10 159:18 160:11 161:10,15,17 162:10 165:6 168:14,16,19,22 169:7 177:20 178:15,24 183:12 186:8 187:23 192:17 193:15 194:1 195:5,9
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10 3 : 5 4 : 1 3 5 : 11 7:13,21 17:18 17:21 22:25 41:13 42:3 74:13 82:3,5 135:5
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POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
1955 41:18 1958 45:5 56:20
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3 2 : 1 4 , 1 6 3 9 : 1 6 , 18 39:24 42:9 91:3 165:16
3022:25 62:16,22 63:16 66:19
30004:14 197:8 3 0 s 133:1 3672:11 105:22 368 66:21 68:21,23
68:25 69:5 39 2:15 3rd 59: 22
__________4_________
42:15,21 3:16 23:1 40:12,15 40:22,23,25 43:6 58:14 83:7 102:8 103:3,19
40 2:16 22:10
400 5:7 42:7 42nd 6: 6 4341:14 188:2 44 188:5 45 104:7 455 86:5 468 68:18 69:2,12
77:9,10,10 87:7 88:5 92:19 48th 6:10 49 12:22 105:3 193:19 4 th 157:2 170:6
_________ 5__________
5 2:16 3:7,14,23 56:24 57:2 58:12 59:2,20 60:5 67:4 68:7 70:12 85:12 101:23 102:8 103:19 158:16 159:1,5 195:6
50 132:7 500 42:14 76:14 509 58:15,15,18,23
60:20 61:23 66:24 86:10 134:1 50pound 110:14 50s 31:21 126:7 181:21,25 52676:4,8,12 53 4:13 54 77:12 55161:18 5500 6:15 5641:25 44:15 57 2:17 58 41:25 44:15 61:10 183:21,24 184:1 5th 86:21 87:13 156:20
_____ 6
6 2 : 1 6 , 18 6 4 : 9 , 12 66:5 68:6 77:8 91:7 92:13,14 92:16,18
60 75:13 600 5:21 60606 6:15 60s 126:8,13 61 60:23 61:10 62025 5:17 631021708 5:12 63104 5:4 63105 5:21 63110 5:8 64 2:18 64112 6:11 672149:9 6 t h 198:11
__________7
7 2:19 71:11,13
74:5 91:12 97:9 160:3,23 70 4:14 7:17 197:8 7000 4 1 : 1 3 705 87:3 706 87:3 70s 33:1 128:24,25 140:22 183:10 185:4 712:21 72 41:19 75:10 133:12 732:22 75:10 149:17,17 74 75:10 162:23 163:12 179:23 75 42:8 75:10 163:8 7675:10 77 75:10 78 3:4 75:10 103:8 7a 9 0 : 1 5
_______ 8_______
8 2:4,21 73:10,12 73:22 98:23 154:6 165:2,14
80 80:7 81 52:17 80:8
84:10 98:23 100:18,20 815 5:3 82 3:6 85 52:17 107:17,18 112:11,25 113:19 86 3:7 8628 90:1 8655 98:17 8666 98:17 8667 98:17 89 3:8 8th 89:11
__________9__________
92:11 3:4,4 74:16 74:18 78:2,6 79:19,20 154:6 165:22
900 6:10,10 9035105:22 107:3
107:6 112:22 114:4 9036 107:3,14 112:21 113:8,18 114:10 9069130:20 9070131:3 9072 131:16 9073 133:10 9074 134:12 9076135:12 9135 71:24 95 133:17 98 3:9 9th 78:10
POHLMANUSA COURT REPORTING (877) 421-0099
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