Document g1evvQzwbKVpkYkrbnZYg433

( Medical Department December 14, 1970 National 811o Aaaoclatlon Meeting--Bous ton M. B. Papageorge VPAPA e DEC 15 1970 J. N. Nagner, JMAON J. Naaon, JMA30 F. 8. Park, FPAIOCt/ Marah Magner and X talked to Dr. Phil Santayer today to learn what he picked up at the Silo Aaaoclatlon Meeting In Houaton on Vedneeday. Phil'a early eomnenta of a general nature lndloated that the meeting wea a "waeh out". There were 42 people In attendance at the beginning of the moralrvK eeealon and 48 before It flnlahed. The only paper relating to PCS waa that preeented by Dr. Bill. Santnyer'e evaluation waa that Hlll'e data were aketcly and that Hill felt that he waa "walking on thin Ice" and knew it (Phil further aaid, "Hill feela he may have atirred up a ret'a neat that may eoat him hla Job"). Hill pointed out that thenrwae a lot of talk in Ohio concerning contaminated milk and he wanted to emphaalae that "not all milk in Ohio waa contaminated." He then pointed out that the State Department of Agri culture nonitora all milk for peatloidea. Milk rren 34 berda ahowed reaiduea whioh did not fit into the typical DDT in peatlolde chromatograma. Hill'a depart ment finally identified the onknowna aa Aroelore. He did any that aa far aa ha knew there waa only one formulation Involved and that thla waa Identified or labeled "Ohio Cunar". He pointed out that Ohio milk lawe were more atrlet than federal lawa and were more eaeily enforced. He returned to the aabject of Cunar coatinge etatlag that aaaplea they had ieated indicated the Ohio Cunar contained 264 of Aroolar. Pleaka of the coating ahowed 64 ppm; enallage ahowed 0.2 ppm in the oenter of the alio; and 20 ppm in the allege againet the coated wall. Taking an unrevealed number or randon aaaplea from the enallage ahoweg an average of 1,3 ppm. Meat from one f. MONS 099543 Np. V. B. Papageorge December 14, 1970 Page Two When Hill's department drilled Into the concrete of a silo, they found at a depth up to 1/2" 2,400 ppm of Aroclor. There was no mention made as to whether the sample might or might not have included the coated surface Itself or whether this actually represented solely penetration of the Aroclor Into the Interior of the concrete. Hill showed a slide indicating data from eight herds which had been checked. The data were as follows) ppm PCB In Herd Silo Coating Ensilage Milk A 5,100 B-- C -D 2,500 B 3.500 F 13,500 0 6,400 H 6,400 115 25 33 2.2 5.6 125 -- See comments In paragraph below There wasn't an opportunity for Phil to get the ppm indi cated in mllk for each herd, but ha said the concentrations ranged from 1 to 2 ppm. Dr. Hill oontlnued by pointing out that milk had been rejected If It contained more than 0.2 ppm PCB. He men tioned that they had attempted a study on how long It took a herd to rid Itself of PCB. A nerd which had 2.0 ppm PCB In milk In April took until September to produce milk with 0.1 ppm. This was demonstrated In a slide which nay have been made from sketchy dsta but showed long "residence time". Sr. Hill pointed out that it took longer to get rid of PCB than DDT. He said the PCB had been Identified by gas chromatograms as Aroclor 1254 and showed chromatograms demonstrating the early confusion with DOT peaks. Santmyer thought there still could be confusion beeruse of the proximity of the 1254 peaks with the position of the DOT metabolites. MOMS 099594 Mr. W. B. fapageorge December 14, 1970 Page Three Hill aald that the PCB had flrat been found laat February and that the Ohio department flrat publlahed a "paper" on the subject In September (I presume this may have been Hill's reference to the fact that he pointed out to you that they had made some notification to dairymen of the problem about that time). Hill emphasized again that the coatings were not epoxy coatings and that It was not "Cumar" but was "Ohio Cumar". He mentioned that the silos had been treated In 1967. This pretty much concluded his prepared remarks which Santmyer classified as "not well prepared and with data that were not clear cut". In the next paper Ton Vadlkln presented nothing but an advertising message for his company. He emphasised that he can clean silos of all oontaminants and put on non contaminating surfaces. Wally Haoeman then presented what Santmyer classified as a "good paper" although it waa not of a technical nature. It dealt principally with customer complaints and oarrled the message that suppliers of coating Ingredients do not provide enough information to people applying alio coatings. He mentioned that the majority of complaints related to penetration of moisture through the coating; cases of applicator employees becoming ill when applying the coat ings, etc. and no reference to KB's or Aroclora. He suggested that the PDA should develop an approved list of coating materials and components for silo use. He recognized that this would probably require a great deal of experimentation. He thought the suppliers should provide test data to lead to PDA approval and he pointed out that in his opinion "suppliers should assume liability for any problems arising rrom tne use of coatings.* e asked Santmyer specifically If this related tothe silo eoatlng applicator who Is "supplying the coating" or to the basic manufacturers who supply Ingredients. Santmyer responded that there was the clear implication that the suppliers of the baste materials should assume liability. Haoeman did point out that there were three types of coatings that have not presented any difficulty. These Included cured cement (t), epoxy coatings and urethane MONS 099545 Nr. V. B. Fapageorge December 14, 1970 Pag* Poor coating*. Santtayar wondered personally whether there was evidence that there were no problem* with the urethane coating*. The fourth panel participant was Oeorge Whitesides and he waa recommended by Santnyer as on* with whom we might try to cooperate. Whitesides msntlonsd that there were more then 1,000,000 silos In the United Ststss constructed st a cost of $1,000,000,000. Be pointed out that silos do hey* to be coated and he classified the problems Into two categories. On* related to the original construction of a silo whoa, 1.) curing coating compounds esn bs used to impregnate the surface and, 2.) surface coatings can be applied to the original silo which should last for eight to nine years If proper materials and proper methods for application are used. The second category related to the maintenance of coatings and the replacement of deteriorated coatings after eight to ten years. He pointed out some of the problems with maintenance and the logistics of having silos empty for maintenance and resurfacing purposes, etc. Whitesides expressed the opinion that silo manufacturers MSt eeemie some ^onslbilLty_ror_coatlMt grobisme. te pointed out that with some 30 years experience, silo manu facturers are saddled with the> i.d..e..a....t..h..a...t...c..o..s..t.ing prob' lems "could be swept under tha mg" t Be proposed that the ' Industry set up subcommittees on the prdblen ofbuilding, maintenance and treatment of ellas. Xn the question and answer period, there were only three questions. The first one, dlreoted te Dr. Bill, was "Bow do you know POP's are poisonous"! Bill replied that tbs PM guidelines established this fact and the limit of allowable eontamln- atlcn. . ' ` ' The second question related M the difference #f coefficient of expansion between epoay destines and ooneret*. The answer suggested that this was not a serious problem. The third question, again addressed to Or. Rill, was "flea legal action been taken in Ohio because of the KB In . milk, and if so, against wbearf Bill replied that there were two suits which had been ftlOd.br two herd owners, . sue for $105,000 and the other for 41900,000.. Bs did ; not answer tn* second part of the question.' . MUNS 099546 Nr. V. B. Papageorge December 11, 1970 Page Five He finished with comment* that the Ohio Department of Agriculture haa worked very aatlefaotorlly and coopera tively with Union Carbide, Dow, Wyandotte and Monsanto Companies. Phil Santmyer Is to send me an invoice for his expenses which X will forward to you. BPWtju Blmer P. Wheeler HONS 099547