Document evNJ9QmvBnEKRJ3ORZJQajVB9

Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. Condenselt T WILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE PROTECTED MATERIAL - CONFIDENTIAL - - PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER - UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BEFORE THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION ------------------------------- X in the Matter of: Docket Nos. RP91-203-000 TENNESSEE GAS PIPELINE RP92-132-000 COMPANY (Phase II - PCB Issues) Wednesday, January 18, 1995 St. Louis, Missouri Deposition of William B. Papageorge, a witness herein, called for examination by counsel for Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company, pursuant to subpoena, at the law offices o Thompson 6 Mitchell, One Mercantile Center, St. Louis, MO 63101, commencing at 10:00 a.m., before Debra M. Musielak, a certified court reporter in and for the State of Missouri. Page 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PROCEEDINGS Page 4 MR. KERN: would you please swear the witness? (Witness sworn.) MR. kern: Mr. Papageorge, my name is Robot Kern and I'm representing Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company. This deposition is being taken pursuant to a subpoena issued by Judge Silverstein in the matter styled Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company, Docket Nos. rp-91-203 and RP-92-132, Phase n pcb issues. This proceeding is pending before the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. In that proceeding, Tennessee is seeking to recover from its customers die costs associated with the assessment and remediation of pcbs at its national gas compressor station sites arising from its historic use of pcb containing Pydraul, and in starting air compressors. In the proceeding today certain Tennessee customers have introduced Monsanto form letters as exhibits to their testimony, and a letter from a Monsanto attorney Mr. Bistline? MR. CARNEY: Bistline. MR kern: Assistant General Counsel in litigation contending that these general form letters were APPEARANCES ON BEHALF OF TENNESSEE GAS PIPELINE: Wright 6 Talisman, P.C. By: Mr. Robert G. Kern ( Ms. Staci Leonard, Paralegal 1200 G Street, N.W.. Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 2u05 ON BEHALF OF THE WITNESS: Husch ( Eppenberger By: Mr. Thomas R. Carne C Ms. Kathleen M. Arndt 100 N. Broadway. Suite 1300 St. Louis, MO vb3102 ON BEHALF OF THE JOINT PCB INTERVENORS' GROUP: Schiff, Hardin 6 Waite By: Mr. Edward J. Finn 1101 Connecticut Avenue. N.W. Washington, D.C., 20036 ON BEHALF OF TENNESSEE PCB GROUP: Crowell ( Moring By: Ms. Ann H, Kim 1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20004 ON BEHALF OF PENSYLVANIA OFFICE OF CONSUMER ADVOCATE: Ms. Denise Goulet 1425 Shawberry Sguare Harrisburg, PA 17120 ON BEHALF OF OHIO OFFICE OF THE CONSUMERS' COUNSEL Mr. Joseph P. Seriod 77 South High Street, 15th Floor Columbus, OH 43266 Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Page 5 send to Pydraul customers, including Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company. The subject matter of the deposition today is directed to the issues upon which you may be requested to testify at the hearing before the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Those issues specifically are Monsanto's business practices concerning the issue of whether Monsanto actually mailed the letters that were provided by Mr. Bistline, whether Monsanto may not have actually mailed those letters to Tennessee but rather to Tennessee's middleman supplier Petroleum Distributing Company, and various related issues. I do not intend to focus my questions today on information that was provided to Tennessee by various intervenors or other participants in the ferc proceeding that relate to the issue of letters. But, out of an abundance of caution, and given our agreement and the desire that certain information that may come out today be protected, I'm directing the reporter to designate the deposition as protected material pursuant to the protective order that was issued in the ferc proceeding on November 25,1991, and I am making that order Exhibit 1 to the deposition. We don't have copies. We'll make this Deposition Exhibit No. 2. MR. CARNEY: Okay. ALSO PRESENT: Hedlund, Hanley ( Johns By: Mr. Steven J. Roeder Seats Tower, Suite 5700 Chicago, IL 60606 INDEX Direct Examination by Mr. Kern Cross Examination by Mr. Finn Cross Examination by Ms. Goulet ' E X H I B-I T S 1 - ' Protective Order 2 Protective Order 3 9-9-69 memo * IT 4 2-4-70 memo 5 7-30-73 memo 6 2-9-70 letter 7 6-22-70 letter 8 8-27-70 letter 9 2-1-71 letter 10 4-15-71 letter 11 April. 1972 letter 12 8-3-73 letter J 13 3-4-70 letter and customer list 5 5 17 22 49 82 82 S3 84 84 85 95 (Exhibits attached. Exhibit 13 confidential) Page 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ,10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Page 6 MR. kern: This is a copy of the ferc protective order, and I wanted you to have a copy of it. MR. CARNEY: This is Exhibit 1? MR. kern: Yes, that's correct. I'm also marking as Deposition Exhibit 2 an agreement that was entered into between Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company and Miss Denise Goulet, attorney for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Office of Consumer Advocate and Monsanto Company, non-party to the ferc proceeding. This agreement will be adhered to, however, it is subject to the overriding authority of the Judge to assess any claims of confidentiality. ' MR. carney: with regard to Exhibit 2,1 assume there's no objection by any of the attorneys here to being bound by the protective order? I think I just had listed the attorney for Tennessee Gas, Miss Goulet the attorney for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Office of Consumer Advocate, and Jennifer Waters, Counsel for Tennessee pcb customer Group. But, those people I think have signed Exhibit 2, or attorneys representing those entities. But, I assume everybody else that's here is in accord with that. mr. roeder: well, I've never seen it. For the record, I mean, I'm appearing here as an also present, Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 1 - Page 6 WATER PCB-SD0000075746 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 7 Page 10 1 but, obviously we understand that there is initial litigation 1 you would have an opportunity at any hearing where that was 2 pending between Tennessee Gas and Monsanto, and there is - 2 at issue to make any argument you would want to make. 3 MR. carnev: who are you appearing at this 3 MR. CARNEY: And I think the understanding is 4 deposition on behalf of? 4 that if any of you become aware that that's going to be the 5 MR. roeder: well. I'm here on behalf of 5 subject matter of a hearing, that I'll be notified so that I 6 Tennessee Gas, but I'm not appearing in that proceeding. 6 can make my argument. 7 MR. carney: in the ferc proceeding? 7 MR. KERN: Yes, that's correct. 8 MR. roeder: That's correct. I'm not 8 Q. Okay. Can you state your full name? 9 appearing in the ferc proceeding. My only question is, is 9 MR. CARNEY: I guess one other thing that I 10 some of the information that you now want to have designated 10 think you covered, but I think there is an understanding, and 11 confidential in this proceeding, has it already been provided 11 there's been an exchange of correspondence with regard to the 12 in other proceedings where it's not designated confidential? 12 scope of this deposition. It's been limited --1 didn't 13 And what I don't want to have happen is that we've got 13 check the transcript of the hearing with what you read, 14 conflicting confidentiality orders when something is in fact 14 although it seemed to be consistent, but I think I certainly 15 not confidential. There is no protective order in the 15 have an understanding this will be limited to a fairly narrow 16 Kentucky proceeding that is in effect, as I understand it. 16 subject area that was mentioned in the transcript of the 17 And, if this is information which is already produced in that 17 hearing with Judge Silverstein. 18 proceeding, I don't want to get caught up in inconsistent 18 MR. KERN: That is a correct statement. 19 protective orders. You understand my position? 19 20 MR. carney: I do understand it. I'm not 20 WILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE 21 entirely up to speed on the discussions that people in our 21 of lawful age, being first duly sworn to tell the truth, the 22 respective offices have had with regard to confidentiality 22 whole truth and nothing but the truth, deposes and says as Page 8 Page 11 1 agreements in the litigation in Kentucky, although I know 1 follows: 2 that any customer list Monsanto's policy is to seek 2 DIRECT EXAMINATION 3 confidentiality with regard to those. So, I'm confident that 3 BY MR. KERN: 4 that's been done in the past. Often times, or sometimes, in 4 Q. Could you state your full name for the record, Mr. 5 the past these customer lists have been excised so that only 5 Papageorge? 6 the particular customer at issue is on the list, and all the 6 A. William B. Papageorge. 7 other customers are off. And that's a little different 7 Q. And can you provide your home address, please? 8 situation than an entire customer list which is maybe a half 8 A. Yes, 321 Pebble Valley Drive, St. Louis, Missouri 9 an inch thick. But, I am confident that we have asked these 9 63141. 10 lists in a format of the entire list be confidential in all 10 Q. Are you being represented today by Miss Arndt, is 11 cases including the one we have in Kentucky. 11 that how you pronounce that? 12 MR. roeder: As I understand - 12 MS. ARNDT: well, actually I'm - 13 MR. CARNEY: Just to make it clear, there may 13 Q. And Mr. Carney? 14 be other documents, for example, the letters that went out 14 MS. ARNDT: Correct. 15 would be a clear example of something that we're not 15 Q. Can I get a verbal response from that? Are you 16 contending is confidential, they went to hundreds or maybe 16 being represented today by Mr. Carney? 17 even thousands of customers. 17 A. Yes. 18 MR. roeder: Can I propose as that relates to 18 Q. Of Hersch & Eppenberger? 19 that proceeding, we can agree to agree? I mean, because I 19 A. Yes. 20 don't know where the position -- where we are with respect to 20 Q. Are you appearing on behalf of Monsanto or in an 21 the documentary production, and neither do you, and I just 21 individual capacity? 22 don't want this to somehow inhibit or affect that 22 A. Monsanto. Page 9 1 proceeding. As long was we have that agreement. 1 2 MR. CARNEY: Yeah. What I want to make sure 2 3 is in this deposition any documents in the form of customer 3 4 lists are protected. If there's a contrary agreement in the 4 5 Kentucky case, that would take precedence. I don't think it 5 6 will, but. . . 6 7 . MR. ROEDER: Fine. 7 8 MR. CARNEY: You're not going to be bound by 8 9. what you've agreed to here in the Kentucky case if there's a 9 10 contrary understanding or agreement there. 10 11 ' MR. ROEDER: All right. Let me get to a 11 12 ` break, I'll have an opportunity to look at the protective 12 13 order. Rather than belabor the record anymore, let's get to 13 14 it. 14 15 MR. FINN: Just to make the record on behalf 15 16 of the Joint PCB intervenor Group, we don't have any problem 16 17 with this protective order, provided as Mr. Kern noted, that 17 18 it is overall subject to the terms of the protective order in 18 19 this proceeding in FERC, such that if the Presiding 19 20 Administrative Law Judge determines that this material is not 20 21 properly protected, that obviously we would not be continued 21 22 to be bound by this protective order. We would expect that 22 Page 12 Q. Okay. Can you - mr. carney: well, I would just object. That may be a question that would call for a legal conclusion as to who he's appearing in behalf of. He was subpoenaed as an individual, and so I would just object for the record that it may call for a legal conclusion by a lay witness as to how he came to be here. Q. (by Mr. Kern) Okay. Let me ask him some facts. Did you converse with Monsanto attorneys when you received the subpoena from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission? A. I conversed with attorneys who are not Monsanto employees but they were working with Monsanto. Q. And those attorneys, are they with the firm of Hersch & Eppenberger? MR. ROEDER: HUSCh. Q. Husch. Excuse me, I'm a southern boy. A. Some of them. Q. Did you have any discussions regarding whether you should require Tennessee to obtain a subpoena to obtain your testimony as opposed to appearing voluntarily? A. I was not involved with subpoenas. Q. So, you were just advised as to when to appear? Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 7 - Page 12 WATER PCB-SD0000075747 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 13 Page 16 1 A. I received a subpoena, and the subpoena informed 1 MR. carney: as you know, yes. 2 me as to the date and place at which I was expected to 2 MR. KERN: Okay. 3 appear. 3 mr. carney: Not in this case, because 4 Q. I see.And then you communicated with attorneys 4 Monsanto is not a party to it. 5 from Husch & Eppenberger, is that correct? 5 Q. Let me ask this question and then I'll drop this. 6 A. Yes. 6 Who are paying for your attorneys? 7 Q. And, did they -- did you have any communications 7 A. I don't know. 8 with any Monsanto employees or with any Monsanto employees 8 MR. carney: I'm going to object. Calls for 9 prior to your receipt of the subpoena as to whether you would 9 speculation. 10 voluntarily appear and provide testimony in this proceeding? 10 Q. Okay. Well, can you answer the question without 11 A. Yes. 11 speculating? Do you know who is paying your attorneys fees? 12 Q. And were you instructed to wait until a subpoena 12 A No, I do not know. No. 13 was obtained prior to testifying? 13 Q. Okay. Let me ask this question, do you own stock 14 A. No, I was not given that type of instruction. 14 in Monsanto Company? 15 ms. goulet: rin going to lodge an objection. 15 A. I do. 16 I think you're inquiring into an area of communications 16 Q. When did you commence your employment with 17 between me and Monsanto's attorneys. I'm not sure he's the 17 Monsanto Company? 18 proper person to answer these questions. 18 A. November 1951. 19 MR. kern: rm just trying to establish- 19 Q. Okay. Were you continuously employed with 20 ms. goulet: what he knows about the 20 Monsanto until your retirement? 21 situation, 1 don't have a problem with you establishing what 21 A. Yes. 22 he knows. 22 Q. Whendid you retire from Monsanto? Page 14 Page 17 1 Q. (by Mr. Kern) I haven't asked him for the 1 A. My last working day wasDecember 31,1986. 2 specifics of any attorney-client communications. I'm just 2 Q. Okay. Can you brieflydescribe for me the 3 trying to establish some facts, Counsel. So, you did 3 positions you have held at Monsanto, and I'm not asking for 4 converse with Monsanto employees prior to the receipt of a 4 specifics, but just in a general sense, can you describe for 5 subpoena, is that correct? 5 me roughly the positions that you've held? 6 A. That's correct. 6 A. I'll try. 7 Q. Okay. And did those individuals advise you not to 7 Q. Okay. 8 voluntarily testify? 8 A. I wiU try to do this in chronological sequence. 9 MR. CARNEY: rm going to object. I think 9 I went from Design Engineering to Manufacturing Supervision, 10 it's been asked and answered. I think it's beyond the scope 10 to Maintenance and Construction Supervision, back to 11 of the deposition. It may invade attorney-client privilege. 11 supervising the engineering function. Then I was in charge 12 I tried to give you some latitude on this, but I think you're 12 of a multi function department at a plant which included 13 now straying off the reservation in terms of what we're here 13 shipping, receiving, waste removal, power distribution, steam 14 for. 14 generation, those -- that kind of service. I then became 15 Q. Okay. I accept the objection on the grounds of 15 a -- went back to manufacturing supervision at a higher 16 privilege, so I'll ask another question. Do you receive any 16 level. I was a plant manager at one of Monsanto's plants. I 17 compensation from Monsanto in any form today? 17 then became involved with environmental issues and as time 18 A. No. 18 went on, I also picked up employee workplace health issues 19 Q. Okay. You receive no monetary compensation from 19 until I retired. 20 Monsanto? 20 Q. Okay. When did you begin work in the 21 A. If I understand you, you used the word 21 environmental area? 22 compensation, that means a payment for a service performed or 22 A. January 1970. Page 15 1 duty performed? 1 2 Q. That's one way to view that. 2 3 A. I do not receive any from Monsanto. 3 4 Q. Okay. Are you a retired employee of Monsanto? 4 5 A. I am. 5 6 Q. So, you receive retirement benefits? 6 7 A. Yes. 7 8 ' Q. But you're not a consultant or - you|re not 8 9 acting in a consultant capacity at this time, is that 9 lo* correct? " 10 11 A. I do serve as a consultant, but not to Monsanto. 11 12 . Q. Okay. Well, I guess what I'm really trying to get 12 13 at here, is whether Monsanto is representing -- Monsanto's 13 14 attorneys are representing you in their capacity as Monsanto 14 15 attorneys, or whether they are representing you in your 15 16 individual capacity as Mr. William B. Papageorge? 16 17 MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object to that. I 17 18 think that would call for speculation of this witness. I 18 19 think the witness has indicated I am representing him in this 19 20 deposition. 20 21 MR. KERN: okay. Do you also represent 21 22 Monsanto? 22 Page 18 Q. I'd like to show you a document that I'm going to mark as Deposition Exhibit No. 3, can you take a moment and review that, please? mr. carney: Let me just object for the record that I think this memo goes beyond the scope of this deposition. I haven't read it. I've just glanced through it. But I don't think it is within the scope of the agreed upon areas of inquiry. MR. KERN: well, I want to establish a background for the letters which were subsequently sent out, and I believe that this is foundational material, and I , believe I'm entitled to inquire about it. MR. CARNEY: I don't follow your logic. MR. KERN: well, there's a policy that's stated here. The policy states, "Make the Government, States and Universities prove their case, but avoid as much confrontation as possible." Does that mean that you provide letters one way or another, I mean, the basic -- the letters flow from the basic policies that was established in 1969, and I believe I'm entitled to inquire about it, Counsel. Certainly intend to. MR. carney: well, I disagree that this letter Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 13 - Page 18 WATER PCB-SD0000075748 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. Condenselt TM WILLIAM B. PAPAGEORG1 Page 19 Page 22 1 is dated at a time period prior to when Mr. Papageorge has 1 anyone at Monsanto Company that is not an attorney? 2 indicated that he became involved in the environmental 2 A. No, sir. 3 function. He is not shown as being copied on the letter. 3 Q. Okay. Just want to state on the record that to 4 Yet, it does not pertain to the issues that are the subject 4 the extent that Mr. Papageorge is instructed not to answer 5 matter of inquiry in this deposition, so, I'm going to 5 and is accepting the instruction of his counsel to that 6 instruct the witness not to answer. 6 regard, that we're reserving our right to quash any subpoena 7 ms. goulet: rd like to inquire as to where 7 that he be required to testify at the FERC proceeding. 8 you got this. This is not a document that any of us on the 8 MS. GOULET: Can you say that again? 9 customer side have seen in this proceeding. 9 (Statement reread by the Reporter.) 10 MR. kern: I believe - 10 Q. (by Mr. Kem) Mr. Papageorge, I have marked as 11 Ms. goulet: it's not been produced in 11 Deposition Exhibit 4 a document, and I'd ask you to review 12 discovery to our side. 12 that, sir. 13 MR. ROEDER: I believe it was produced in 13 A. I have reviewed the document. 14 other litigation. 14 Q. Mr. Papageorge, have you ever seenthis document 15 MR. FINN: To Tennessee. 15 before, sir? 16 ms. goulet: But hasn't been - 16 A. Yes. 17 MR. carney: it's got a Bate numbers tran, 17 Q. Did you see this document on or aboutthe time 18 which is Transwestern. That's a case that was out in 18 that it was prepared? 19 California, as I recall. I was not involved in that case. 19 A. As best as I recall, I did, yes, sir. 20 But, I just know from how documents are marked I assume that 20 Q. Did you participate in discussions regarding the 21 this document came from that case. 21 wording in this document? 22 mr. roeder: For die record, I believe it was 22 A. I saw a rough draft and was in a position to make Page 20 Page 23 1 also marked as an exhibit in that trial. If you look at the 1 some comments. Today I don't recall what my comments were. 2 top right comer, says Transwestem 95. 2 Q. Did you edit the letter in any way, shape or form? 3 MR. CARNEY: That could very well be. I was 3 A. Well, that was the purpose of my comments to the 4 not involved in that case, so I'm not familiar with how 4 author of the report. 5 exhibits were marked. I am familiar with how Monsanto 5 Q. Did you make your comments to the author of the 6 generally marks the Bate stamp number. 6 report in writing? Did you write on a draft? 7 MR. FINN: We're going to lodge an objection 7 A. No, sir. 8 in addition to Tennessee inquiring ana presenting documents 8 Q. So, you communicated orally with the -- with Mr. 9 in this deposition that have not been produced in the FERC 9 N. T. Johnson, is that correct? 10 proceeding and made available to the intervenors in that 10 A. That's correct. 11 case. 11 Q. Now, Mr. N. T. Johnson is -- is that Norman 12 MR. KERN: As you well know, we objected to 12 Johnson? 13 providing documents that are in the public files, you made 13 A. Yes. 14 the same type of objections to our data request. This 14 Q. Okay. Was Mr. Johnson responsible for insuring 15 document is from the public files. It's a public document. 15 that the letter that's referenced here on February 9 was 16 So, I disagree with your objection. I'm certainly going to 16 mailed out to Pydraul customers? 17 attempt to inquire of the witness about this document. 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. (by Mr. Kem) Mr. Papageorge, are you going to 18 Q. Can I turn your attention to the second paragraph 19 accept the instruction of counsel and refuse to answer 19 of the letter, sir? It says, "Our fluids mailing list is 20 questions about this document? 20 inadequate, and since we are required to send this letter to 21 A. Yes, sir. 21 all customers, a mail list was generated here from our 22 Q. Okay. Did you review any documents prior to this 22 accounts receivable customer list. By using this list, we Page 21 1 deposition? 1 2 A. You mean for this purpose? 2 3 Q. Yes. 3 4 A. Because I reviewed - 4 5 Q. Yes. 5 6 A. - many many documents, sir. 6 7 Q. Let me make it a little clearer. I apologize. 7 8 Did you review documents in preparation for the deposition 8 9 today? 9 10 A. Yes, sir. 10 ll' Q. Okay. What documents did you review? .11 12 AT As I remember, there were copies of Monsanto 12 13 letters that were sent to its customers of PCB products. 13 14 There were copies of mailing lists associated with those 14 15 letters, and there were some Monsanto memoranda at which 15 16 individuals conveyed information to each other within 16 17 Monsanto regarding those mailing lists and the letters. 17 18 Q. Okay. Is there anything else in addition to that 18 19 that you can recall? 19 20 A. No. 20 21 Q. Okay. And, did you have any discussions about 21 22 those documents in preparation for this deposition with 22 Page 24 avoid sending a letter to each "shipped to location" of the gas transmission companies for example." And that's the end of the paragraph. My question, sir, is were you aware that the fluid mailing list for Pydraul customers was inadequate? A. I was aware of a list that existed in January of 1970 used by that marketing group for their normal business communications. It was inadequate in terms of covering pcb customers current and past. Q. Thank you, Mr. Papageorge. It says here the list was generated from our accounts receivable customer list. If a customer, sir, had ceased purchases from Monsanto, for example, in 1968, and did not have accounts receivable existing with Monsanto Company, is it possible, sir, that that company would not be on the list that you identified? A. Anything is possible, sir. It's highly unlikely for this purpose. Q. Well, let me just be more specific then, because I want to extract what specific knowledge you have. Were there discussions about the inadequacy of the mailing list at the time that this internal memoranda was generated? A. There were discussions about a list that existed at the beginning of this program. This does not mean that Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 19 - Page 24 WATER PCB-SD0000075749 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 25 Page 28 1 the list finally used was the same list. 1 are you aware? 2 Q. And that's fme. But let me ask you a different 2 MR. CARNEY: Well, I'm going to object. It 3 question. You sav a mail list was generated from our 3 may cause this witness to speculate wnat was inside the mind 4 accounts receivable customer list. Did you review the 4 of Mr. Johnson as to what he thought the inadequacy meant 5 accounts receivable customer list? 5 other than what's in the letter. 6 A. I personally did not. 6 Q. Okay. Let me just ask Mr. Papageorge if he has an 7 Q. Okay. Did you inquire as to anyone about what 7 understanding independent of what Mr. Johnson - 8 accounts receivables were being used in order to generate the 8 MR. CARNEY: He may. I'm just calling his 9 memoranda -- memorandum, excuse me. 9 attention -- it may cause him to speculate as to what 10 MR. CARNEY: I may be able to cut this short, 10 somebody else meant by a word. 11 because I have the list that was used. If you want to 11 MR. KERN: certainly don't want any 12 eliminate any doubt about what the list contained and who is 12 speculation. 13 on the list, I do have it. 13 MR. CARNEY: if he knows, that's fme. 14 mr. kern: I'd like to -- would you produce 14 Q. Mr. Papageorge, did you have discussions with Mr. 15 it? 15 Johnson about why the mailing list was inadequate? 16 MR. CARNEY: I have it here. I've got one 16 A. Yes, I did. 17 copy that's in blank, and I've got one copy that's got a 17 Q. Okay. Can you please explain, or please tell me, 18 cover memo and the rest -- it's a one-page memo dated March 18 sir, what the substance of those conversations was? 19 4, 1970, and the rest of it is just a listing. 19 A. I'll try to recall them. 20 MR. KERN: Could you read my original question 20 Q. Thank you, sir. 21 to Mr. Papageorge? I want to make sure I get an answer to 21 A. The inadequacies described to me by Mr. Johnson 22 that. 22 included such things as it did not include past purchasers of Page 26 Page 29 1 (Question reread by the Reporter.) 1 pcb products. And he wanted to make sure he picked those up. 2 A. Will you help me with the definition of what 2 It included customers that had yet to buy pcbs -- let me 3 accounts receivable were reviewed? 3 correct that, potential customers, people on a mailing list 4 Q. Let me try and be more specific. If I was 4 that would receive brochures and literature regarding our 5 generating a list, and I was using my accounts receivables to 5 products in hopes they would try them and eventually become 6 do that, I would go to accounting and say give me a list of 6 customers. So, we had those two extremes, old customers 7 all of our accounts receivable, identify all the people that 7 inactive and potential new customers, along with current 8 owe us money for Pydraul AC, did you do anything like that? 8 customers for the year 1969, 1970, so, for the purposes of 9 A. It was done. I didn't do it, it was done. 9 this mailing, that list was considered to be inadequate. 10 Q. Now, what specifically do you know about that? 10 Q. So, it might not have picked up some past 11 Did Mr. Johnson tell you I went down to the Accounting 11 purchasers. Would it have picked up purchasers in 1968? 12 Department and asked them to provide me with a list of 12 mr. carney: which list are you talking about 13 accounts receivables? 13 now? 14 A. Mr. Johnson informed me that he used all of the 14 Q. I'm talking about the list that's referenced in 15 services available within Monsanto to get together an 15 this document, fluids mailing list? 16 up-to-date customer list. That included individuals, and I 16 A. This list and this memorandum of February 4,1970 17 don't know whether it's accounting people or customer service 17 did not go back to '68, '67. 18 people who looked at accounts receivable, the "bill to" 18 Q. Thank you, Mr. Papageorge. 19 address. They looked at "shipped to" addresses and tried to 19 mr. carney: rm going to object to the 20 consolidate the two, so there is no needless repetition. 20 question because I think it -- it's unclear as to what list 21 Those two major lists available in the home office of 21 you're talking about, and it may call for this witness to 22 Monsanto served as the basis for what I'm going to call a 22 speculate as to what list Mr. Johnson was referring to. Page 27 1 first draft mailing list, and it was tied in to products that 1 2 contained pcbs. 2 3 Q. And my specific question, and maybe you've already 3 4 answered this, but let me just make sure I'm getting an 4 5 accurate answer. The accounts receivable customer list would 5 6 reflect in my view current accounts, people that owed the 6 7 company money, is that correct? 7 8 -oA. No, not in my definition. No, sir. 8 9 Q. Okay. Let's reach a meeting of the minds here on 9 10' what we're talking about here. How do you interpret the .10 11 words accounts receivable? What does that mean to you? 11 12 A. That means to me an entity and a mailing address 12 13 to which an invoice was mailed for the payment of a shipment 13 14 of material. 14 15 Q. Okay. 15 16 A. And, this would go back to the beginning of time 16 17 to the earliest period when Monsanto first started invoicing 17 18 its customers. In this instance, it went back three years, 18 19 which is the time period that the Accounts Receivable 19 20 Department kept records, so that would cover the years '67, 20 21 '68 and '69, and pick up a few shipments in January of 1970. 21 22 Q. Okay. Now, why was the mailing list inadequate, 22 Page 30 Because I think the witness mentioned earlier in his testimony that the accounts receivable list did go back three years. mr. KERN: Well, you're testifying now for Mr. Papageorge, and the record will be what the record will be. Your objection is noted on the record. mr. carney: well, it's because your question was deficient. mr. kern: You didn't object to form, now you're objecting to form, and I accept that. . MR. carney: it was vague and ambiguous and misleading, also irrelevant, because I don't think this list that's referred to was ever used in a mailing. MR. KERN: well, that's argumentative. I mean, we can argue about this all day. I'm trying to get facts here. I understand that you're a pro, let me just converse with the witness and you can make your objections as you deem it appropriate. MR. carney: That's what I plan on doing. mr. kern: You're certainly entitled to do that, and that's fine. Q. (by Mr. Kern) Okay. Mr. Papageorge, could you Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 25 - Page 30 WATER PCB-SD0000075750 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 31 Page 34 1 turn your attention to the fourth paragraph of the letter, 1 think you should cure it in your question and ask a single 2 sir? 2 question one at a time. 3 A. I have it. 3 MR. KERN: You're objecting because it's a - . 4 Q. Okay. Could you review that paragraph, sir? 4 compound question? 5 A. I've reviewed it. 5 MR. FINN: Yes. , 6 Q. Okay. Let me ask a question first about the 6 Q. All right. Now, do you have the question in mind,? 7 individuals that are listed as being recipients of the 7 or do we have to go back through this again? 8 letter. Were these individuals marketing individuals? 8 A. I believe I nave it in mind. 9 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. Can you answer the question, Mr. 10 Q. Um, it says in the fourth paragraph, Mr. 10 Papageorge? 11 Papageorge, "We realize that most of your contacts will not 11 A. I could give you an answer, sir, but at this point 12 receive the letter. This is both good and bad. 12 in time, I am not -- I do not recall die reference there 13 Unfortunately we have no alternative. Complete lists will be 13 about most of your contacts will not receive die letter. I 14 retained of all companies receiving the letter and should you 14 just -- it doesn't make sense to me at this point in time 15 decide you want to send this letter," and that's underscored, 15 when I know the purposes of all this, so I cannot help you 16 "to certain specific people, you must send us a list of 16 with that particular reference. 17 names. We would prefer you not send additional copies--one 17 Q. Do you remember any conversations at all about 18 is enough." Now, did you realize -- did you have discussions 18 whether particular customers of Monsanto might not receive 19 at the time this letter was being developed in which you 19 these letters in this time frame? 20 consciously determined that most of the marketing 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 individuals' contacts would not receive this letter? 21 MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object to that. 22 MR. CARNEY: i'm going to object because I 22 That mischaracterizes totally his testimony. Page 32 Page 35 1 think the question is vague and ambiguous. May call for 1 MR. KERN: He just answered the question. 2 speculation. And, I don't know what you mean by the word 2 MR. CARNEY: He said all the customers going 3 contacts. Are you talking about the individual within the 3 back three years did get the - 4 company in terms of the person, the individual marketing 4 MR. KERN: That's your version of what your 5 person had a specific contact within the company, is that 5 story is. I understand that. I'm asking Mr. Papageorge what 6 what you're using the word contact to mean? 6 the facts are. 7 Q. Let's make that a standard. You've been deposed a 7 MR. CARNEY: That's not my version, that's Mr. 8 number of times, I'm sure you've heard this many times. If 8 Papageorge's testimony that he's clearly stated on the 9 you don't understand my question, you'll tell me, right, so I 9 record. So you're mischaracterizing his testimony by saying 10 can clarify it? 10 did you have an understanding that customers didn't get it. 11 A. Well, yes, but keep in mind that I may have an 11 They all got it. Every single one of them. And that's what 12 understanding that may not match your understanding because 12 he said. 13 of word definitions and so on, so... 13 MR. KERN: That's your testimony. 14 Q. Okay, well -- 14 MR. CARNEY: That's not my testimony. I 15 A. We could still be far apart. 15 haven't testified. I'm not under oath, and--just a minute, 16 Q. If you and I are talking and you don't understand 16 let me finish. I am not testifying in this case. I'm not 17 something that I'm saying, would you please let me know so 17 under oath. I'm not testifying. I am making objections 18 that I can try to clarify the record and my question? 18 where I think they are appropriate. 19 A. I'll try, yes. 19 MR. KERN: well, it's very clear to me that 20 mr. kern: now read back the original 20 you're coaching the witness and you're trying to shape his 21 question. 21 testimony, and I think that's grossly inappropriate. And I 22 (Question reread by the Reporter.) 22 want the record to reflect that is, as it obviously will. Page 33 Page 36 1 MR. carney: rm going to make the same 1 And, we'll just see where we wind up today. I mean obviously 2 objection I did to the question when it was proffered the 2 I can't stop you from doing this, so I'm going to go ahead 3 first time, and, again, you're taking some words from a memo 3 and try to continue to ask questions of Mr. Papageorge. You 4 that wasn't written by this witness, and then you're asking a 4 can continue to object. We'll let the record reflect what 5 question using the word contacts, and I still would say that 5 it's going to reflect. But, you know, we may have to have -- 6 your question is vague and ambiguous as to what you mean by 6 we might have to do the deposition again after I take it to 7 the word contacts in your question. 7 the Judge and show him what's going on. And I will 8 . - MR. kern: Are we going to have a long 8 resubpoena him if it's necessary. Because it's clear that 9 colloquy back and forth on every question that I ask? I 9 you're coaching him. 10 mean, I understand that objections to form are appropriate. 10 MR. carney: i don't think it's useful for me 11 I understand that sometimes questions are vague and we need T1 to get into a dialogue concerning your accusations about my 12 to have a discussion on the record. But, are we going to 12 objections and my conduct. I don't think that serves any 13 have a continuing colloquy, because if we are I'm going to 13 purpose, other than just to delay this deposition. I'm going 14 have to lean ova- the table and have very serious disputes 14 to make the objection as I see fit, and you can ask your 15 with you, because I think it's very inappropriate for you to 15 questions. If you ask good questions, there won't be 16 engage in colloquy during the deposition. If Mr. Papageorge 16 objections. If I think they are defective, and many of them 17 doesn't understand my question, he can tell me that, and I 17 have been, then I will continue to make those objections. 18 will rephrase my question. I mean, basically you're coaching 18 MR. KERN: I have no problem with you 19 the witness. It's very clear. 19 objecting as to the form of my questions. 20 MR. FINN: rm going to add an objection that 20 mr. carney: why don't you ask a question? 21 the question is complex. There are at least two or three 21 mr. kern: I'm going to, but I want to have a 22 questions embedded in it. That's an objection as to form. I 22 two-minute break. Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 31 - Page 36 WATER PCB-SD0000075751 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 37 Page 40 1 MR. ROEDER: Let's take a two-minute break. 1 Q. Well, you sent the letter to the Director of 2 (Following a break, proceedings 2 Purchases, did you get many responses when you sent the 3 continued as follows.) 3 letter out? 4 A. Can I try to clarify some of the comments I made 4 A. What kinds of responses, sir? 5 previously, because I sense when we talked earlier about 5 Q. Well, there's a reference here to a letter dated 6 understandings, I sense, for example, the use of the word 6 February 9th, when you sent that letter out, did you get a 7 contacts may well be interpreted as customers, and that could 7 lot of responses back from the Directors of Purchases of 8 be two different things entirely. There could be one 8 these various companies? 9 customer with 15 contacts related to that customer. Now, 9 A. We got many. I don't have any comment. We got a to when we talk about lists, keep in mind, this letter or 10 lot of inquiry. 11 memorandum we're looking at is attempting to describe the 11 Q. Did you get an inquiry from Tennessee Gas Pipeline 12 ongoing process of putting together a new list to take care 12 Company? 13 of a special mailing that hadn't been done before. So, when 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 Mr. Johnson refers to our fluids mailing list, he's talking 14 Q. You have no personal knowledge whether Tennessee 15 about the day-to-day current business mailing list, not the 15 Gas Pipeline Company inquired or sent you a response to the 16 special mailing list that was being worked on. To put 16 February 9, 1970 letter that's referenced here? 17 together that list, he starts with his initial list and went 17 A. Tnat is correct. 18 to accounts receivable, and as you note there he talks about 18 Q. Now, why is it both good and bad that most - 19 two women working two weeks to put a list together. Still, 19 well, strike that. Explain to me how you define the term 20 that list wasn't perceived to be a complete list. The field 20 contacts in this paragraph. 21 people that are listed as recipients during this memorandum 21 MR. CARNEY: You want his understanding? 22 were then pulled in to have an opportunity to review the list 22 Q. Yes. I want your understanding of the term Page 38 Page 41 1 as it existed on February 4, and add to that any others that 1 contacts. 2 they had on their list back at their district office. So -- 2 A. I think the best way I can describe that is to use 3 Q. Mr. Papageorge, did you discuss this testimony 3 an example, if I may. For example, a local power company has 4 with your counsel during the break we just took? 4 transformers that use pcb containing fluids, and our field 5 MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object. That would 5 representative has them on his list, an entity to call upon 6 call for invasion of the attorney-client privilege. 6 every now and then. The transformers of that power company 7 MR. KERN: The fact that he communicated with 7 could be serviced by the manufacturers of those transformers, 8 you is not attorney-client privilege. I'm not asking him to 8 be it a Westinghouse or General Electric or any -- any of the 9 disclose the substance of any conversations that you had, I'm 9 other transformer manufacturers. So, the General Electrics 10 asking him whether he communicated with you about this 10 of the power distribution world order the pcb containing 11 document. 11 product and ship it to this power distribution entity, and 12 MR. CARNEY: I'm going to stand on that 12 General Electric sends a crew to service that transformer, so 13 instruction. 13 we have a situation where General Electric is a customer and 14 MR. KERN: Are you instructing the witness not 14 the power company is a contact for our sales representative 15 to answer? 15 to encourage buying more transformers that use Monsanto's 16 MR. CARNEY: Yes, I am. 16 product. That's his objective. 17 Q. Are you going to accept the advice of your 17 Q. So, the contacts that would not receive the letter 18 attorney and not answer the question? 18 would be customers of the utility that you just described, 19 A. Yes. 19 or - 20 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you again, did you have any 20 A. That's an example. 21 communications with your attorney during the break we just 21 MR. carney: i would object. That 22 took? 22 mischaracterizes the testimony. Page 39 1 A. We had communications. 1 2 Q. Okay. Let me ask you a simple question. On the 2 3 second paragraph of this letter you say, "By using this list, 3 4 we avoid sending a letter to each "Shipped to Location" of 4 5 the gas transmission companies for example." Why did you not 5 6 want to send a letter to the "Shipped to Locations," isn't 6 7 that where the people were that needed the information? 7 8 ... ' MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object to the 8 9 question as to form. I think it's vague and ambiguous. May 9 10' call for speculation. 10 11 A: The intent of this particular letter was to get it 'll 12 as high up in the customer's organization as we could so that 12 13 it would receive the proper attention. We were hesitant to 13 14 send it out to many many locations, and this reference to gas 14 15 transmission companies is only one of many many examples 15 16 where the "Shipped to Location" would not have been in any 16 17 position to understand the seriousness of the subject, 17 18 ordinary workers that work on transformers, for example, and 18 19 so on, and we wanted to make sure that the right people in 19 20 each company got the information so that they, if necessary, 20 21 asked more questions of us or put the right resources to work 21 22 to cope with the problem. 22 Page 42 Q. That would be an example, is that correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. Now, what about General Electric, for example, as a recipient of a letter, would General Electric be a contact behind which there would be other individuals that might not receive the information? Am I being clear in my question? mr. carney: well, I'm not clear in your question. Q. Strike that question. MR. CARNEY: Okay. ' Q. I'll withdraw it. Start over. You state that most of your contacts will not receive the letter, so, that would be a utility company that buys a product, a transformer, from a direct customer of yours like General Electric or Westinghouse? A. That's an example. mr. carney: I'm going to object because you did - I don't think maybe intentionally, but you say "you say," and, you know, I think the memo was not written by Mr. Papageorge. Q. And I understand your position. I'm just saying, Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 37 - Page 42 WATER PCB-SD0000075752 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 43 Page 46 1 Mr. Papageorge, what his understanding is of the facts. You 1 who actually stuck it in the mail, and you haven't defined 2 say -- or, excuse me, strike that. In the same fourth 2 what you mean when you say responsibility, and that's I think 3 paragraph it says, "Unfortunately we have no alternative." 3 what the witness is having trouble with. 4 Do you know what -- why that particular language is in this 4 Q. Let me ask the question a different way. What is 5 document? Did you have any discussions regarding that? 5 your understanding, Mr. Papageorge, of Mr. Johnson's 6 A. We had discussions, of course, but I don't recall 6 involvement with mailing of letters relating to Pydraul? 7 the specifics as it relates to that sentence. I don't know 7 MR. carney: You're saying the actual putting 8 what Mr. Johnson had in mind today. I don't know. 8 it in the mail? What do you mean by mailing of letters? 9 Q. Okay. So you have no independent recollection 9 Q. Mailing either in a supervisory capacity, i.e. 10 today as to what the substance of the discussions were around 10 supervising secretaries, or -- 11 the time this letter was developed as regards to the meaning 11 MR. carney: setting up the procedure, or, you 12 of the term "We have no alternative"? 12 know, your question is vague. 13 A. That is correct. 13 Q. Let's take it one at a time then. Overseeing the 14 Q. And you say, "This is both good and bad." Why 14 secretaries in terms of insuring that the letters get out? 15 would it be both good and bad that most of the contacts would 15 mr. carney: well, I'm going to object because 16 not receive the letter? Do you have any independent 16 you're assuming there were secretaries that were doing it. 17 knowledge of that? 17 MR. kern: well, let me - let's ask Mr. 18 A. No, there again, you'd have to ask Mr. Johnson. 18 Papageorge. Let me ask him a question. 19 Q. So, you don't recall any specific discussions with 19 MR. CARNEY: I wish yOU Would. 20 Mr. Johnson or others at that time period about why it would 20 Q. (by Mr. Kern) Mr. Papageorge, are you aware of 21 be both good and bad that most contacts would not receive the 21 who mailed out the Pydraul letters, who actually physically 22 letter? 22 mailed than out, do you know? Page 44 Page 47 1 A. I do not. 1 MR. carney: which letters are you talking 2 Q. Okay. Do you know where Mr. Johnson is today? 2 about now? You said letters. 3 A. No, I don't. 3 Q. Letters from the period January 1970 through 4 Q. Have you had any communications with him since the 4 December 1973. 5 early 1970s? 5 MR. carney: well, now it's compound because 6 A. No, I didn't have any. 6 you're talking about a period of time, numerous letters. 7 Q. Do you know when he left the company? 7 Q. Let's take one letter, the February 9th, 1970 8 A. Some time in the '70s. Middle or late '70s, I 8 letter, who was responsible -- or, strike that. You're 9 don't know exactly when. 9 having trouble with that. What is your understanding of Mr. 10 Q. Have you had any discussions with anybody at 10 Johnson's involvement in the mailing of the February 9th, 11 Monsanto about the circumstances of his departure from 11 1970 letter that references various substances containing 12 Monsanto? 12 Aroclors? 13 A. No. 13 MR. carney: same objection. 14 Q. Okay. So, you're not aware of any facts or you've 14 A. Mr. Johnson was assigned by his supervisor the 15 not heard any communications about why he left the company? 15 task of making certain that the customers that were buying 16 A. That is correct. 16 the products that Mr. Johnson represented in Monsanto in the 17 Q. Were you close friends with Mr. Johnson? 17 marketing function received a copy of this letter. He was 18 MR. carney: objection to the form of the 18 also responsible to see that the necessary resources were 19 question, contains undefined terms as to what you mean by 19 pulled together, and by that I have in mind such things as 20 close friends. 20 the regular secretaries supplemented by temporary help, if 21 MR. FINN: I'm going to object. We're getting 21 necessary; scheduling, whether it was weekend work or evening 22 well beyond the scope specified in the subpoena, as well. 22 work. Making certain that all of this was done was Mr. Page 45 1 Q. Let me establish a foundation, please. Who was 1 2 responsible for sending out the Pydraul Ac letters to 2 3 customers in the early 1970s? 3 4 MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object to the form 4 5 of that question. I think it contains undefined terms as to 5 6 what you mean by responsible. 6 7 Q. Okay. Can you answer the question, please? 7 8 "A. I'm having problems with.the responsibility 8 9 . assigned. The responsibility rested with the Director of the 9 10 Business Group, and Mr. Johnson was a member of that group, JO 11 but two levels below that director. 11 12 ' Q. TJh-huh. So, he went directly--he didn't have 12 13 overall responsibility for insuring the letters went out. 13 14 Did he have - 14 15 mr. carney: rm going to object to the 15 16 mischaracterization of the testimony, and you continue to not 16 17 define the word responsibility. You talking about the top 17 18 guy in the company with responsibility, the secretary who 18 19 actually did the mailing, Mr. -- Just a minute, Mr. 19 20 Papageorge's role in making sure these letters got out? 20 21 There were lots of people involved in it, from the top person 21 22 with the responsibility to maybe a staff person or secretary 22 Page 48 Johnson's responsibility as it related to the Pydraul products containing PCBs. Q. All right. Tnank you, Mr. Papageorge. Now, it states in this letter that -- again, I'm in the fourth paragraph on the first page, Mr. Papageorge. A. I see it. Q. That, "should you decide you want to send this letter to certain specific people, you must send us a list of names." Do you recall any discussions as to the reason why that language is in this document? _ A. I don't know about the language specifically, but the intent was to make certain that the customers in the opinion of the field representatives who were involved with PCBs, whether they were still buying or were past customers, with PCBs on their property would be on a mailing list and receive a copy of this letter. Q. Okay. And then there's a follow-up, "We would prefer you not send additional copies--one is enough." Do you have an understanding, sir, as you sit here today of the reason or the purpose behind that language? MR. CARNEY: Well, I'm going to object. You asking what his understanding is, or, you asking what Mr. Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 43 - Page 48 WATER PCB-SD0000075753 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 49 Page 52 1 Johnson's understanding was? 1 MR. carney: You may be right. All I can tell 2 MR. KERN: would you reread the question? 2 you is that 95 percent plus of the documents in the Kentucky 3 (Question reread by the Reporter.) 3 litigation we produced were produced two or three months ago. 4 Q. Would you answer that question, please? 4 We did have a small production yesterday. I don't know what 5 A. I'm speaking for myself at the time. I understood 5 was produced yesterday, so I can't speak to that. 6 this to mean that after the field marketing representative 6 MR. roeder: My understanding is my associate 7 looked over the list and saw that one of his customers 7 went through the box we got yesterday, and if you notice, the 8 received the letter, that he was discouraged from sending 8 fax legend shows it was faxed at 10:40 last night, so that's 9 them a second letter, and the intent there was to avoid 9 why I'm pretty confident these documents we just received our 10 confusion with multiple letters going to the same customer. 10 copies of them yesterday. 11 Q. Okay. Is this a language that you added into the 11 MR. FINN: Mr. Roeder, is the Bates number on 12 letter? I believe you stated earlier that you edited this or 12 the bottom, the tngs and a sores of numbers, is that from 13 provided comments, is this some language that you might have 13 the Kentucky litigation? 14 recommended for insertion? 14 MR. roeder: Monsanto did that Bate stamping. 15 A. No, that's not -- no, that would not be something 15 I don't know. There are the people that can tell you. 16 that I would be involved with, no. 16 MR. FINN: Mr. Carney, do you know that the 17 Q. Do you recall any specifics of what language you 17 Bates number on the bottom -- 18 suggested be edited or added or deleted from this letter? 18 mr. carney: My understanding is that means it 19 A. No, at this point in time, I just--nothing comes 19 was produced in the Kentucky litigation. 20 to mind, no, I just cannot remember. 20 MR. FINN: Thank you. 21 Q. Okay. Let me introduce another exhibit. Iam 21 ms. goulet: You believe it was late November 22 marking as Deposition Exhibit 5 internal Monsanto memorandum 22 that the bulk of the material had been produced? Page 50 Page 53 1 dated July 30,1973, and I'd ask you, sir, to review that. 1 ms. arndt: The production is ongoing at this 2 MR. carney: Before you answer, let me take 2 point. We're in early discovery in that case. 3 time to read it. 3 MR. carney: But we produced - 4 ms. goulet: Bob, this document and Deposition 4 MS. ARNDT: Hundreds of boxes earlier. 5 Exhibit No. 4 both bear a marking at the bottom tngs and then 5 MR. carney: we had a small production 6 a series of numbers, can you tell me what tngs stands for? 6 yesterday. 7 MR. kern: I have no idea. 7 mr. roeder: so the record is very clear, the 8 Ms. goulet: Do you know where you got the 8 hundreds of boxes I came down and looked in your offices in 9 document from? 9 November, almost all of them related to production in prior 10 mr. kern: Yes, it was provided by Monsanto. 10 cases, and I don't think I saw one document when I was in 11 MS. goulet: okay. In connection with the 11 your office in November that had a tngs Bate stamp on it. It 12 Kentucky proceeding? 12 was my understanding those documents were not available at 13 MR. kern: rd like to confer with Mr. Roeder, 13 that time, so all we looked at were production in prior 14 please. 14 cases, so I want the record to be very clear. 15 MR. roeder: ibelieve that's correct. I'm 15 mr. kern: Let me make a statement on the 16 not 100 percent up to date on all of the Monsanto production. 16 record, too, to the extent there's any suggestion of 17 I do know that we just received some documents from Monsanto 17 impropriety, because that's really upsetting me, quite 18 yesterday, and some of the documents which we received 18 frankly. As you well know, we have objected and you have 19 yesterday we've tried to use now, if they are appropriate, at 19 objected to providing public documents in other cases. 20 least bring to Mr. Kern's attention, and this could be one of 20 ms. goulet: Bob, I'm not suggesting it's 21 the documents we got just yesterday. 21 impropriety, I'm trying to understand - this is the first 22 MR. FINN: was this document, or No. 4, 22 time we've seen these documents. We're trying to understand Page 51 1 provided to the intervenors in discovery in the ferc 1 2 proceeding, Mr. Kern? 2 3 MR. kern: This document was provided by 3 4 Monsanto yesterday, I believe. 4 5 MR. roeder: I don't know. I don't want to 5 6 make that representation, I just know - 6 7 MR. CARNEY: I doubt it was yesterday. I 7 8 -would say we produced in my office hundreds of boxes of 8 9 documents in the Kentucky litigation. I think we had a very 9 10 small production yesterday. I can't say with any certainty, 10 lT but my guess would be this was produced months ago in 1994, ,11 12 towards the end of '94. 12 13 MR. roeder: so the record is clear, this we 13 14 received a copy of yesterday because it was faxed down to you 14 15 by my office, if you notice the fax legend on the top. The 15 16 same is true of the previous exhibit, if it has a fax legend 16 17 on the top, 1-17-95, we received a copy of it yesterday from 17 18 Monsanto. 18 19 MR. carney: which one was that, Exhibit 4? 19 20 MR. roeder: i believe so. 20 21 MR. kern: And it does have the same notation. 21 22 I mean, that's my understanding. 22 Page 54 where they came from. MR. FINN: I would just add that the fact that a document is produced in discovery in another case doesn't make it a publicly available document, and I'm trying to figure out as well where these documents are from. As well, this is the first time we've seen them. MR. ROEDER: i'll state on the record those two documents I saw for the first time this morning. MR. KERN: Same here. So, we're all looking at them fresh. MR. ROEDER: Except these guys. They probably saw them before us. Q. (by Mr. Kern) I gather, Mr. Papageorge, that you've had the opportunity to review this document, sir? A. I have, yes, sir. MR. CARNEY: if you would just give me a minute, since I have not. MR. KERN: Certainly. Take your time. MR. CARNEY: For the record, I just want to note an objection that the attachment, the August 3, 1973 letter relates to Therminols. There is an August 3, 1973 letter relating to Pydrauls, and I don't know whether there's Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 49 - Page 54 WATER PCB-SD0000075754 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGI Page 55 Page 58 1 been a mistake in the production, whether somebody else 1 Q. Were there a number of individuals that had input 2 stapled that particular letter there, and I'm not accusing 2 into the development of this particular internal Monsanto 3 anybody of stapling something that was inappropriate, all I'm 3 memorandum dated July 30, 1973? 4 pointing out is that there is an August 3, 19/3 letter that 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 relates to Pydrauls, and the letter, the August 3, 1973 5 Q. Okay. Who do you recall? Can you identify for me 6 letter that's attached on Exhibit 5 is not relating to 6 the individuals who would review or have input into the 7 Pydrauls but Therminols. 7 language that ultimately is reflected in this July 30,1973 8 MR. ROEDER: Just for the record, since this 8 memorandum? 9 came from our office, if you'll notice, the tngs Bates number 9 A. Did I hear you correctly say the individual 10 is sequential from 8613 to 8615. I think the letter you're 10 singular? 11 saying does not belong there. It is in fact sequential to 11 Q. The individuals. 12 the memorandum. 12 A. Oh, plural. Yes, the individuals listed under cc 13 MR. CARNEY: I see it is sequential, but I 13 at the upper right-hand comer. 14 don't remember whether it was stapled or not, and just 14 Q. What position did J. F. Stapleton hold? 15 because it's sequential there may have been the next letter 15 A. He's a Monsanto director. 16 in the sequence the Pydraul August 3, 1973 letter, and at 16 Q. T. L. Gossage? 17 this point I just want to note that for the record so there's 17 A. Director of Marketing. 18 no confusion. 18 Q. W. N. Maddox, his position? 19 MR. KERN: Let me ask Mr. Papageoige, maybe he 19 A. He was --1 don't recall his official title, but 20 can clarify this for us. 20 he was a representative in Monsanto's Customer Services 21 MR. CARNEY: In fact, the memo actually says 21 Department. 22 attached are copies of three types of letters that were sent 22 Q. Okay. The individuals that are reflected in the Page 56 Page 59 1 out, so that I think is some clarification. 1 "TO:" section of the memorandum, beginning with J. Armentor 2 MR. ROEDER: That could very well be. 2 and ending with E. Treffner, can you identify those 3 MR. CARNEY: Obviously there was more than one 3 individuals for me by position? 4 letter. I just don't want the witness to be confused, or 4 mr. carney: one at a time or by category, if 5 anybody else to be confused, and it could be there would be a 5 you can do it generally. 6 substitution. 6 Q. Were these individuals marketing individuals? 7 MR. ROEDER: I presume we're going to take a 7 A. Yes. 8 break at lunch. I will call up and see ifthey can fax the 8 Q. So, this memoranda was related to Monsanto's 9 additional documents here that follow this in sequence that 9 decisions regarding notifying customers who bought pcb or 10 would go from 8616 and 8617, and perhaps that will clear up 10 PCT-containing Pydrauls of the fda regulations that are 11 the confusion. 11 reflected, is that correct? 12 MR. CARNEY: Well, it may or may not. All -- 12 MR. carney: Are you saying just Pydrauls? 13 Q. (by Mr. Kern) Let me ask some questions of Mr. 13 Q. Yes, I am saying Pydrauls now. 14 Papageorge, maybe ne can clarify what nis understanding of 14 mr. carney: so, marketing people on Pydrauls? 15 the document is, since he's identified as being a recipient 15 A. It does refer to Pydrauls and Therminols. 16 of it. Mr. Papageorge, have you had an opportunity, sir, to 16 Q. Let me be more specific. I'm certain I'm not 17 review this document? 17 asking a particularly articulate question, and I apologize. 18 A.Just now, yes. 18 Can you identify for me which individual in the referenced 19 Q. Yes.Okay. Have you ever seen this document 19 "TO:" section of the memorandum who had responsibility for 20 before, sir? 20 insuring that any of the proposed memorandum regarding pcb or 21 A. Yes. 21 PCT-containing Pydrauls would be sent to Tennessee? 22 Q. Okay. Do you recall seeing this document at the 22 mr. carney: Read that question back, please. Page 57 1 time -- at or about the time of July 30, 1973? 1 2 A. As best as I can recall, yes, I vaguely remember 2 3 it, uh-huh. 3 4 Q. Yes, sir. Did you have any editing or review 4 5 functions with respect to this particular letter? 5 6 A. Well, I was in a position to see the rough drafts 6 7 that were initially prepared, so I was involved as it was 7 8 being developed and put together. 8 9 (iQ. Were these letters developed with the input of a 9 10 number of different people. 10 llx MR. carney: Letters or memos? 11 12 Qr I apologize, excuse me. Withdraw that question. 12 13. That was incorrectly stated. Were there a number of 13 14 different individuals that were involved in the generation of 14 15 these internal Monsanto memoranda? 15 16 MR. carney: rm going to object to the 16 17 question because you're saying these memos. We're looking at 17 18 a memo dated July 30,1973. I think it's vague as to what 18 19 other memos might be included in the question. 19 20 Q. Okay. Would you reread the question and then I'll 20 21 clarify it to being just this particular memoranda? 21 22 (Question reread by the Reporter.) 22 Page 60 (Question reread by the Reporter.) MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object to the question on several grounds. One, I think it contains undefined terms. It's vague and ambiguous in terms of who had responsibility. Are you limiting Km to the people on the list of people that the memo went to? Q. Let me re-ask the question. Mr. Papageorge, is there any individual here that's listed here in the "TO:" section of tKs document that had responsibility for insuring that a PCB or PCT-containing Pydraul letter as proposed in tKs memorandum would be sent to Tennessee? MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object on the ' grounds it contains undefined terms in terms of what's meant By responsibility. There could be a number of different people that would have responsibility in the chain. Q. Okay. Let me ask you tKs, Mr. Papageorge, can you define responsibility for me? MR. CARNEY: No, I'm going to object to that, instruct him not to answer. MR. ROEDER: Why? MR. KERN: Do we have to get a dictionary? He can answer and tell me what Ks understanding of the word Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 55 - Page 60 WATER PCB-SD0000075755 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 61 Page 64 1 responsibility is, and then we'll have a meeting of the minds 1 of letters involved. 2 and we can move forward. Are you instructing the witness not 2 Q. With respect to the letters on heat transfer, were 3 to answer my question? 3 those sent out by registered or certified mail? 4 mr. carney: well, I think the deposition will 4 A. I believe some of them were, as best I recall, but 5 go faster if you'd just be a little more precise in your 5 not all of them. 6 questioning so that we would understand and have a clear 6 Q. How did you determine whether to send a letter out 7 understanding of what you are asking. 7 as a registered or certified mail letter? 8 mr. kern: I'm not a big billed lawyer like 8 A. I didn't determine - 9 you, takes me a little longer to get where I want to be. 9 MR. CARNEY: I'm going to object to that. 10 I'll try as hard as I can to ask die questions as best I can 10 That's overbroad. 11 and we'll see where we can come out. 11 Q. Did you have any involvement in determining the 12 Q. (by Mr. Kern) Can we reach an understanding as to 12 type of mail service that any particular letter relating to 13 what responsibility means? Do you have a general 13 Pydrauls would receive? 14 understanding as a layman of what that term means? 14 A. No. 15 mr. carney: well. I'm going to object to that 15 Q. And, do you know, sir, who would have had an 16 question and instruct him not to answer. You can -- you're 16 involvement, an oversight involvement in that particular 17 getting - it's your responsibility to ask an intelligible 17 decision? 18 question, and I think you need to focus on that. 18 mr. carney: object to the form of 19 MR KERN: I'm trying to be really nice about 19 the question. 20 this. You know, we can do this one of two ways. You can 20 mr. KERN: Reread that. 21 continue this and we'll subpoena Mr. Papageorge and take his 21 (Question reread by the Reporter.) 22 deposition before a Judge, or, I'll try to continue forward 22 Q. Did you understand my question, Mr. Papageorge? Page 62 Page 65 1 with the deposition and we'll see how we do. Let me try a 1 A. I believe I do. 2 different tact. 2 Q. Okay, could you answer it, sir? 3 mr. carney: Let me say this, I don't think 3 mr. carney: Let me make my objection, because 4 your threats are going to get us anywhere. You can do what 4 I didn't have time to make it. I'm going to object on 5 you want to do. 5 several grounds. The question contains undefined terms. 6 MR. KERN: Not a threat, obviously. 6 It's compound, so I object to it as to form, and it's vague 7 MR. CARNEY: And I'm going to handle this 7 and ambiguous. 8 deposition in terms of my role in it the way I do. 8 Q. Would you please answer the question, sir? Do you 9 MR KERN: Of Course. 9 have it in mind? Could you go back and read the question? 10 mr. carney: And rather than make these 10 mr. carney: one part just to help you along, 11 comments back and forth between us, I think it would be more 11 I'm not sure -- you're referencing some prior testimony as to 12 productive, and we would all get out of here sooner, if you 12 some decision. I'm not clear in your question as to what 13 just ask your questions. 13 decision you're referencing. 14 Q. (by Mr. Kern) Okay. Let me try again. Are you 14 mr. kern: okay. Reread the question. 15 going to accept your attorney's instruction not to answer the 15 (Question reread by the Reporter.) 16 question? 16 Q. And I'm talking, sir, about the decision what 17 A. Yes. 17 particular type of mailing service would be utilized for 18 Q. Okay. On Page 2 of this memorandum, Mr. 18 Pydraul letters. 19 Papageorge, there's a statement in the third, or the second 19 A. Pydraul letters, that would rest, of course, with 20 full paragraph, says, "We realize that this letter may reopen 20 the author of the particular letter. 21 old wounds. On the other hand, we don't want any customers 21 mr. carney: That's why I objected, because 22 caught unawares by the fda regulations. We never really sent 22 you say Pydraul letters and you haven't defined what Pydraul Page 63 1 out as many letters on PCBs to all Pydraul customers as we 1 2 did on heat transfer." Now, you previously stated, I 2 3 believe, that you reviewed this memorandum as it was being 3 4 developed, is that correct? 4 5 A. Yes, sir. 5 6 Q. Okay. Do you have an understanding, sir, as to 6 7 what is meant by the sentence, "We never really sent out as 7 8 many letters on PCBs to all Pydraul customers as we did on 8 9 heat transfer"? - 9 10 A. I believe I do. 10 11 Q. Can you please explain for me your understanding 11 12 , of that sentence? 12 13 A. The heat transfer application as it related to 13 14 food processing was a high priority issue with Monsanto. As 14 15 a result of that high priority, there were many many letters 15 16 sent to the customer using PCBs in his potato chip fryer or 16 17 his animal feed sterilizer and so on. And, most of those 17 18 letters had to do with the steps taken to drain the system, 18 19 flush it, replace it with other materials, and to convert 19 20 from a PCB fluid to a non- PCB. As a result of all that 20 21 activity, there was a lot of correspondence to the heat 21 22 transfer people, and that's why the difference in the number 22 Page 66 letters, what type of Pydraul letters. There's, I'm sure, thousands of different Pydraul letters that went out. That's why your question has the defect of not being clear. Q. Okay. Let me just make it clear. Can you tell me, Mr. Papageorge, can you identify for me one particular letter that was sent out that related to Pydraul that -- for example, stated that Pydraul contained pcbs or polychlorinated biphenyls in the early 1970s period? Are you aware of any particular letter like that? mr. carney: well, I'm going to object. I think it's overbroad. I think you ought to show the witness a letter, and then he can answer it. mr. kern: Give me the February 9 letter. Q. (by Mr. Kern) Let me back up a minute before I do this. We talked earlier, as I recall, and you said that Mr. Johnson had some involvement in determining who would receive Pydraul letters, or to insure that the letters that were being sent out to Pydraul customers actually were sent out, is that correct? mr. carney: objection. It's been asked and answered. A. Well, it's correct to the extent you mentioned Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 61 - Page 66 WATER PCB-SD0000075756 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 67 Page 70 1 Pydraul, but, I think further what I think you mean is pcb 1 MR. carney: That's why I wanted to clarify 2 containing Pydrauls. 2 it. I think you can ask him for what his understanding of 3 Q. Yes. With that clarification? 3 what those words are, but asking what Mr. Paton's ~ *v 4 A. Yes, sir. 4 understanding, that would have him speculate inside Mr. 5 Q. Okay. Now, did you have any conversations with 5 Paton's mind. I think that's rank speculation. I don't , 6 Mr. Johnson about what type of mailing service would be 6 think you really want that. Doesn't have a lot of probative 7 utilized for the Pydraul letters that we just discussed? 7 value. 8 A. No. 8 Q. 9 mr. CARNEY: Are you talking about the 9 understanding of what that language means? 10 February 9,1970 letter? 10 A. Some of the customers of pcb containing Pydrauls 11 Q. Or any letter referencing the fact that Pydraul 11 were very upset when Monsanto chose to reformulate. They 12 contained pcbs in the period from January 1970 to December 12 disagreed with Monsanto's actions. They interpreted them as 13 31,1973? 13 being an overreaction, and in some ways they woe angry at 14 mr. carney: well, I'm going to object that 14 Monsanto, disappointed in Monsanto. And those are the kinds 15 that question is overbroad, because I think you need to -- 15 of old wounds that I pictured would be opened. 16 the letters are the best evidence of what's said, and to ask 16 Q. Okay. Did you have any discussions with Mr. Paton 17 him a question - 17 regarding what he intended by that sentence? 18 MR. kern: I'm not asking him what was said, 18 A. Yes. 19 I'm asking him what type of mailing service was utilized with 19 Q. Can youplease tell me what that was? 20 the letter. 20 A. I could tell you the understanding I was left 21 mr. carney: with a letter that mentions pcb? 21 with. It kind of matched my interpretation of that sentence. 22 mr. kern: pydraul containing pcbs in a 22 Q. Okay. Was there anything that deviated from your Page 68 Page 71 1 limited period of time. Mr. Papageorge is intimately 1 interpretation or understanding? 2 familiar with those letters. 2 A. I don't recall any. 3 MR. CARNEY: I don't know what letters you're 3 Q. Okay. Who was Mr. Paton? 4 talking about. If you'd be more specific then we won't have 4 A. He's a Monsanto employee, and in 1973, he was 5 a problem. If you don't want to be specific, I'm going to 5 working on the PCB environmental issues, assisting Mr. 6 continue to object. 6 Gossage in Marketing. 7 MR. KERN: Are you instructing the witness not 7 Q. Did he take over the position that Mr. Johnson had 8 to answer? 8 previously held? 9 MR. CARNEY: NO, I'm not. 9 A. I just don't remember his exact title. I don't 10 (Question reread by the Reporter.) 10 know. 11 A. The reason I'm hesitating, it seems to me that 11 Q. Did he have involvement with the mailing of 12 some of the Pydraul letters that we've discussed thus far 12 letters regarding PCB containing Pydrauls in the period 13 occurred at a time when Mr. Johnson wasn't involved. 13 around July 30, 1973? 14 Q. Okay. 14 A. Yes, he did. 15 A. So-- 15 Q. Okay. Did he have an involvement with respect to 16 Q. Let's limit it to the period of time when Mr. 16 the issues involving the mailing of letters regarding PCB 17 Johnson was involved. 17 containing Pydrauls earlier to that time? 18 A. Yes. 18 MR. CARNEY: Earlier than July 30, 1973? 19 Q. With that clarification, can you answer the 19 MR. KERN: Yes, counsel. 20 question? 20 A. I believe he was involved in '72, but I'm not real 21 MR. CARNEY: Same objection as before. 21 certain. I'd have to see some documents to refresh my 22 A. He is the one that would make the decision on the 22 memory. Page 69 1 type of mailing service to be used. 1 2 Q. And did you have any discussions with him about 2 3 what type of mailing service would be used? 3 4 A. And as I indicated earlier, I did not. 4 5 Q. Thank you. Mr. Papageorge, do you have an 5 6 understanding, sir, of what the sentence, and, again, sir, 6 7 I'm on Page 2, the second full paragraph, says, "We realize 7 8 that letter may reopen old wounds." Do you have an 8 9 understanding as to what thaHanguage meant at the time that 9 10' this memorandum was drafted? 10 11 A. I have an understanding. 11 12 . Q. Could you please tell me what your understanding 12 13 is, sir? 13 14 MR. CARNEY: what his understanding is of what 14 15 Mr. Paton meant, or his understanding of his own 15 16 understanding of what those words meant? 16 17 Q. I want to ask it both ways, because you said you 17 18 were involved in the development of the letter, so let me ask 18 19 you, what do you think Mr. Paton meant? 19 20 mr. CARNEY: I'm going to object to that. I 20 21 think you're asking for speculation. 21 22 MR. KERN: You opened the door to it, Counsel. 22 Page 72 Q. Can you identify for me any - mr. carney: I'd like to, while we're at this point, let the record reflect that the attorney for Tennessee Gas has just written a question out for the Tennessee Gas lawyer doing the questioning and, you know, it kind of confirms my concern about this deposition, that there's another purpose to the deposition other than the proceeding that we're involved in, and that's the ferc proceeding, and that is to get discovery for the Tennessee Gas case in Kentucky. And that concerns me that we're using this, or you're using this opportunity to get discovery of an ' important Monsanto witness in the Kentucky case when there's been no discovery -- deposition discovery permitted in that case. In fact, there was a status conference on that case at one o'clock today where there may be a discovery schedule. I think it is improper to utilize this deposition for that purpose rather than the purpose of the ferc proceeding, which I think is what we should be doing in this deposition. MR. ROEDER: Let me state for the record that this is not intended to be a discovery deposition with regard to the Kentucky case. You are counsel for Monsanto in the Kentucky case. Monsanto, as I understand it, has not been Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 67 - Page 72 WATER PCB-SD0000075757 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. Condenselt TM WILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 73 Page 76 1 subpoenaed, yet you are defending Mr. Papageorge at this 1 never really sent out as many letters on PCBs to all Pydraul 2 deposition. Miss Arndt is an attorney on behalf of Monsanto 2 customers as we did on heat transfer." That clearly bears on 3 in the Kentucky case. It is not, as I understand it, 3 whether these letters that you allege that Tennessee Gas 4 Tennessee's desire that Mr. Papageorge testify at all in the 4 Pipeline Company received were actually received. Okay? 5 FERC proceeding, but based upon the representation that they 5 So, it's clearly within the scope of what we're here to talk 6 wanted him to testify orally, the subpoena issued. Now, to 6 about. 7 the extent you are suggesting that this is intended to 7 MS. GOULET: I want to clarify something you 8 subplant any other testimony or discovery in the Tennessee 8 said. I don't think we've ever alleged, letters have been 9 case, I can assure you that we do not intend it to be that 9 received. We have alleged the letters were sent. And, that 10 way. And, I want the record to be very clear. Now, if I 10 is the scope. My understanding -- 11 give counsel a note, not a question, it's intented to 11 MR. KERN: Are you going to stipulate for the 12 accelerate the proceedings so that we can get everything done 12 record Tennessee received those? 13 real quickly. 13 MS. GOULET: I have no ability to inquire of 14 MR. CARNEY: Well, this is the first time that 14 Tennessee as to whether they received or not. We've asked 15 you've written out a question and handed it to the Tennessee 15 Tennessee. Never said they did not receive. Tennessee has 16 Gas lawyer in the FERC proceeding who's doing the 16 said we have no record of having received. I think there's a 17 questioning, and I only surmise that the fact that you're 17 lot to be read into these words. Our point was to show 18 here is for tnat purpose, and that's been confirmed now for 18 whether or not the letters were ever sent, and that is why 19 me. We're getting beyond the scope in several instances of 19 we're here today. I would suggest -- 20 what was, I thought, a very narrow and limited scope for this 20 MR. KERN: You're contending this is not 21 deposition. And, I think it is improper for this to go on. 21 relevant to that point, Counsel? 22 Just lengthening the deposition. And, it's obvious in my 22 MS. GOULET: I haven't said that, but I think Page 74 Page 77 1 judgment that that's what's happening here, and -- 1 there's a more direct way of getting there. You have been 2 MR. roeder: if I may make one more comment. 2 provided with a mailing list, and I think that we can inquire 3 The only thing that's lengthened this deposition are 3 of Mr. Papageorge whether or not these letters were ever sent 4 objections that I think are clearly intended to coach the 4 by Monsanto to Tennessee, and we can cut through a lot of 5 witness, and are obfuscating and interrupting legitimate 5 this. 6 inquiry. 6 MR. KERN: You're not - 7 MR. KERN: And I think that's absolutely 7 MS. GOULET: That's what I would recommend we 8 clear, and we're certainly resaving our right to resubpoena 8 do. 9 Mr. Papageorge before a Judge so that we can stop this. Let 9 MR. KERN: You're not conducting this 10 me just say that this deposition is going to be used in the 10 deposition, Counsel, I am. I'm going to conduct it for 11 ferc proceeding subject to a protective order, presumably, at 11 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company my way. 12 least to some extent. If that's the case, I'm not certain 12 MS. GOULET: Mr. Kern, you can, and I'm not 13 that it would be used anywhere else. 13 suggesting that you do anything other than what you want to 14 MR. carneY: will you represent it will not be 14 do. What I am suggesting is that the parties are concerned 15 used? 15 about how long this is going, that we can cut through some of 16 MR. kern: of course not. Of course not. 16 the length and go right to the core of the issue. 17 MR. carney: well, because you know it's going 17 MR. KERN: Mr. Papageorge already testified he 18 to be used. Happens to be somewhat disingenuous of you to 18 had no involvement in the actual involvement of the Pydraul 19 make this comment. 19 letters. So, do we want to - 20 Let me make this comment, I think, number one, 20 MS. GOULET: I'm - 21 there ought to be one spokesmen for Tennessee Gas, and I 21 MR. CARNEY: You've totally mischaracterized. 22 think I've made my comment on the record. I do object to the 22 Q. (by Mr. Kern) Did you put these letters in the Page 75 1 characterization of my objections and the personal nature of 1 2 that, and I don't think that serves any purpose other than to 2 3 delay the deposition. I think you've gone beyond the scope 3 4 and you've asked improper questions and now it appears that 4 5 there's at least a dual purpose for this deposition. 5 6 MR. KERN: Are you going to pull Mr. 6 7 Papageorge out of the deposition, or can we proceed? 7 8 MR. CARNEY: Well, you know, I may do that in 8 9 the future, I'll just wait and see what happens, 9 io" MR. kern: i'll just again state for the .10 11 record that to the extent that happens, and to the extent Mr. 11 12 Papageorge is subpoenaed to appear at the FERC proceeding, 12 13 that we reserve our right to strike his -- move to strike or 13 14 quash the subpoena. 14 15 MR. FINN: Let me state that if you're -- to 15 16 the extent you're asking proper questions, which I don't 16 17 think you've been doing, I think you've been going well 17 18 beyond the scope and use that as some kind of pretext to 18 19 attempt to prevent Mr. Papageorge from appearing at the 19 20 hearing subject to a subpoena, that would be strongly 20 21 opposed, and is - 21 22 MR. KERN: Mr. Finn, the letter says, "We 22 Page 78 mail, Mr. Papageorge? A. No, sir. But you said no involvement, there are many types of involvement involved. Q. What involvement did you have, sir? MR. CARNEY: In what? MR. KERN: See. mr. carney: just tell me involvement in what. mr. kern: what we're just talking about. r* MR. carney: You're talking about a specific , letter, or -- mr. KERN: see. We know what the letters are, I mean... MR. FINN: No, we don't, Mr. Kern. Your questions - I object to the question as being vague, as not having a proper foundation. The record is not going to be clear, as you continually say you like it, unless you ask appropriate questions, and your suggestions that you're going to attempt to bar Mr. Papageorge from the hearing based on the fact that you can't get the answers you want to muddled and compound questions, I'm suggesting that would be opposed by the intervenors in this case. I think we've had enough Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 73 - Page 78 WATER PCB-SD0000075758 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. Condenselt TM WILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 79| Page 82 1 colloquy. I advise you to ask good questions of the witness. 1 continued as follows.) 2 mr. kern: The Judge is going to decide 2 MR. ROEDER: Before we start, I just want to 3 whether Mr. Papageorge appears at the hearing, and you can 3 make a statement. Before we broke, counsel stated on the 4 object to the form of my questions all you want. But the 4 record that I had supplied notes of questions to Mr. Kern, 5 continual colloquy - what this is doing is it's going to 5 and to the extent I aid it I was attempting to cure 6 disable Tennessee from having an effective deposition of Mr. 6 objections that had been raised. But, beyond that, it's his 7 Papageorge prior to the hearing, and we'll move to quash a 7 deposition. 8 subpoena to have him attend, or we'll subpoena him before a 8 MR. CARNEY: Okay. 9 Judge and we'll depose him before a Judge. We'll let the 9 Q. (by Mr. Kern) Mr. Papageorge, I'd like to show 10 Judge rule on Mr. Carney's objections. 10 you a document, sir, and ask you if you can review it? 11 mr. carney: obviously you see some tactic in 11 A. I have scanned the document. 12 doing it the hard way. You have never asked this witness 12 Q. Mr. Papageorge, are you familiar with this 13 what his involvement is with regard to the mailing of any 13 document? 14 letter that I've heard today. 14 A. Yes, I am. 15 mr. kern: I'm asking - 15 9. Is this oneof the documents that you contend was 16 MR. carney: we have the lists that woe 16 mailed out in the February 1970period? 17 actually used for the mailing of some of these letters, the 17 A. Yes. 18 majority of than, with regard to Pydraul, and you have not 18 Q. Did you personally put this letter in an envelope 19 asked him a question about that, which I think would be what 19 marked with a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address and 20 would be in the scope of this deposition. You've been 20 personally place it in the mailbox? 21 beating around the bush, and I guess you have some reason for 21 MR. CARNEY: Objection to form. 22 not being clear and not trying to find out what this witness 22 A. You mean did I fold it and put it in an envelope Page 80] Page 83 1 does know. I can't ask your questions for you, but so far 1 and take it to the mailbox? 2 you really haven't gotten to the questions that are very 2 Q. With a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address on 3 simple and very easy to ask and germane and within the scope. 3 it? 4 Most of them I think have been without the scope. 4 A. Not I personally, no. 5 MR. KERN: in your opinion, right? 5 Q. Put it in the mailbox? 6 mr. carney: in my opinion. And I've been 6 A. I did not. 7 trying to be very lenient and tolerant of what's going on. 7 Q. Okay. Going to mark as Deposition Exhibit 7 a 8 My patience is wearing a little bit thin on it because your 8 document and ask you to review that, please, sir? 9 questions are unintelligible sometimes. They are compound. 9 A. I have read the document. 10 They are vague. 10 Q. Are you familiar with this document, Mr. 11 MR. kern: All you have to do is object to 11 Papageorge? 12 form, and Mr. Papageorge can answer it or not, as he 12 A. Yes, I am. 13 pleases. Can ask me for a clarification. It's clear you're 13 Q. Is this a document that Monsanto contends was 14 engaged in obfuscat--can't even say the word. I think 14 mailed to customers in the June 11th, 1970 time period? 15 that's inappropriate. I mean it's going to be clearly 15 A. Yes. 16 reflected on the record. 16 Q. Did you personally put this letter in an envelope 17 ms. goulet: why don't we have a break for 17 marked with a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address and 18 lunch? 18 personally place that letter in the mailbox? 19 MR. kern: can we have a break for lunch? 19 A. Ipersonally, no. 20 ms. GOULET: i was going to suggest we take a 20 Q. Tnank you. I'm marking as Deposition Exhibit 8 a 21 lunch break. Perhaps you can go over the question and look 21 document. Can you please review that? 22 at the nature of what you have. My interest here is in 22 A. I have read the document. Page 81 1 making sure that whatever record is developed is a record 1 2 that reflects truth in reality, and I think that that is 2 3 actually the interest. I think there is a concern and a 3 4 problem with respect to the way that the questions are 4 5 phrased, and maybe by taking a lunch break we can just maybe 5 6 hone in on those questions and we can get like foundations 6 7 and definitions and all get on the same wave length. 7 8 - MR. kern: it's interesting to me that these 8 9 letters, which I contend, suggest that these letters were not 9 10, sent, or at least some of the letters were not sent, this is 10 11 my opinion, are so troubling to you. You seem to want me not 11 12 to question Mr. Papageorge about them. You want me to 12 13 question him about the mailing list. That seems the simple 13 14 kind of way to do this, let's go to the mailing list, look 14 15 for Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company, and it's your opinion 15 16 magically that Tennessee got this letter. That's not the way 16 17 this case is going to play out, Counsel. 17 18 ms. goulet: I didn't suggest that Tennessee 18 19 magically got a letter. I'm suggesting letters were mailed. 19 20 MR. kern: Let's take a break for lunch, 20 21 please. 21 22 (Following a break, proceedings 22 Page 84 Q. Is this a document that you contend was mailed by Monsanto in the August 27th, 1970 time period to customers of Monsanto? A. Yes. Q. Did you personally put this letter in an envelope marked with a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address and personally place that letter in the mailbox? A. I did not. Q. Thank you. I'm marking a document as Deposition Exhibit No. 9. Can you review that, sir? A. I have read the document. Q. Is this a document that you contend was mailed by Monsanto to its customers in the February 1, 1971 time period? A. Yes. Q. Did you personally put this letter in an envelope marked with a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address and personally place it in the mailbox? A. I did not. Q. I'm marking a document as Deposition Exhibit No. 10, sir. I'd ask you to review it, please. A. I have read the document. Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 79 - Page 84 WATER PCB-SD0000075759 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. CondenseltTM WILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 85 Page 88 1 Q. Is this a document that you contend was mailed to 1 Q. Could you tell me what they are? 2 Monsanto customers in the period of April 15th, 1971? 2 A. They were attached to the February 9, 1970 3 A. Yes. 3 letter. It's Exhibit 6,1 think. 4 Q. Did you personally put this letter in an envelope 4 A. Yes, it's attached to Exhibit 6. 5 marked with a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address and 5 Q. Is Chemical Week a publication, do you know? 6 personally place that letter in the mailbox? 6 A. Yes, it is. 7 A. I did not. 7 Q. Okay. Are you familiar at all with the - could 8 Q. Thank you. I'm marking this document as 8 you tell me what tne date of the Chemical Week reprint is? 9 Deposition Exhibit No. 11, could you please review it, sir? 9 A. As I remember, it's October 1969. I don't recall 10 A. I have read the document. 10 the exact -- there, it's on the copy of the article, October 11 Q. Mr. Papageorge, is this a letter that you contend 11 -- it's hard to read. It's either 28 or 29. Okay, 29, 12 was mailed by you to Monsanto's customers in the period April 12 1969. 13 1972, or mailed - strike that. Do you contend that this 13 Q. Are you familiar with the publication Chemical 14 letter is a letter that was mailed by Monsanto to its 14 Week? 15 customers in the period around April 1972? 15 A. Yes. 16 A. To its pcb customers, yes. 16 Q. Could you tell me what its general audience is? 17 Q. Did you personally put this letter in an envelope 17 MR. KERN: I object, this is outside the scope 18 marked with a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address and 18 of the deposition. 19 personally place that letter in the mailbox? 19 MR. FINN; it's a question about one of the 20 A. I did not. 20 exhibits that you marked and had Mr. Papageorge identify. 21 Q. Okay. I'm marking this as Deposition Exhibit No. 21 MR. KERN: You're asking whether he knows who 22 12, can you please review this, please, sir? 22 subscribed to the Chemical Week reprints or chemical Page 86 Page 89 1 A. I have reviewed the document. 1 magazine, what does that have to do with the letters? 2 Q. Mr. Papageorge, is this a document that you 2 MR. FINN: I'm asking him if he's aware of the 3 contend Monsanto sent to its PCB customers in the period 3 general Chemical Week audience. 4 around August 3rd, 1973? 4 MR. KERN: I'm asking you what does that have 5 A. Its pcb pydraul customers, yes. 5 to do with anything that's relevant or at issue here? 6 Q. Did you personally put this letter in an envelope 6 Q. (by Mr. Finn) My question, stands, Mr. 7 marked with a Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company address and 7 Papageorge. 8 personally place that letter in the mailbox? 8 MR. KERN: I subpoenaed the deposition and I'm 9 A. I dia not. 9 not going to let it go very far afield. I'll terminate the 10 Q. Thank you. Mr. Papageorge, there have been, in 10 deposition. If you want to tie it in very quickly, I'll 11 the FERC proceeding Tennessee has made statements that it 11 allow you to continue. 12 purchased PCB containing Pydrauls from a company called 12 MR. FINN: I already have. It's a general 13 Petroleum Distributing Company, a company which was a 13 question about the foundation concerning a document in a 14 distributor of PCB, of products, some of which contained 14 document that you marked as an exhibit. 15 pcbs. Did you ever personally contact anyone at Petroleum 15 MR. KERN: But the issues are very clear here, 16 Distributing Company and ask them if any of the letters that 16 Mr. Finn, the issues of whether the letters were mailed. You 17 have been identified as Exhibits 6 through 12, and those are 17 made that point repeatedly. Now, what does what you're 18 the letters that I've just shown you, were mailed to 18 asking him have to do with whether the letters were mailed? 19 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Company? 19 MR. FINN: The issues -- First of all, you 20 A. I personally did not. 20 went well beyond the issues that are raised. My question 21 mr. kern: Okay. I have no further questions. 21 stands. I think it goes -- it is relevant to the exhibits 22 Pass the witness. 22 that you entered in this deposition. Page 87 Page 90 1 1 MR. CARNEY: since I gave --1 think this 2 CROSS EXAMINATION 2 deposition has gone beyond the scope. I think this question 3 BY MR. FINN: 3 probably is beyond the scope, but I'm not going to instruct 4 Q. Mr. Papageorge, my name is Edward Finn, I 4 at this point. 5 represent a number of local distribution companies on the 5 A. I don't claim to know Chemical Week's customer 6 Tennessee system. I just have a couple of brief questions 6 list or who subscribes. I can share with you my general 7 for you. Could you refer to what's been marked as Papageorge 7 understanding of the weekly news magazine that relates to the 8 Deposition Exhibit No. 4, please? 8 chemicals and chemical industry. The people who are 9 "A. I have it. _ 9 interested in chemicals and chemical industry would appear to 10 Q. My questions just concern the first paragraph of 10 me to be the type of people who would subscribe. I have no 11 that document. On the first line there's a reference to 41 other information to offer you. - 12 Aroclors and what looked in the copy like pcgs, could you 12 mr. FINN: okay. Thank you. I don't have any 13 tell me what pcgs are in that line? Is that a typo? 13 other questions. 14 A. That's a typo. 14 15 Q. Should that be pcbs? 15 CROSS EXAMINATION 16 A. Yes, sir. 16 BY MS. GOULET: 17 Q. Or do you know? 17 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Papageorge. My name is Denise 18 A. It's my opinion itshould be, yes. 18 Goulet, and I represent the Pennsylvania Office of Consumer 19 Q. Okay. Downin the next sentence there's a 19 Advocate. We are part of the Intervenor Group at the ferc 20 reference to the Chemical Week reprints, do you know what the 20 proceeding and represent the retail consumers who ultimately 21 Chemical Week reprints are that are referred to there? 21 pay for the gas that's moved on Tennessee Gas' pipeline. 22 A. Yes, I do. 22 Early on in your deposition you indicated that your position Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 85 - Page 90 WATER PCB-SD0000075760 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. Condenselt TM WILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 91 Page 94 1 with Monsanto in 1970 had something to do with an area of 1 MR. carney: Pm going to object to the 2 environmental issues. Do you recall what your exact title 2 question. I think it's overbroad. 3 was at that point in time? 3 mr. kern: second the objection. Object to 4 A. Manager-Environmental Control. 4 form. 5 Q. Was this a position that existed prior to 1970? 5 Q. What is the nature of your interaction with Mr. 6 A. It did not. 6 Johnson in the context of the job duties that you have 7 Q. Monsanto created this position in 1970? 7 described to me in the record here today? 8 A. Yes. 8 mr. carney: same objection. 9 Q. And you were the first manager? 9 MR. KERN: Object. 10 A. With that title, yes. 10 A. It was my responsibility to see to it that Mr. 11 Q. Did you have any subordinates that worked for you? 11 Johnson knew as much about the pcb issue as I did. And in 12 A. Other than I shared a secretary. She didn't 12 turn, I encouraged him to pass it on to his team and his 13 report to me administratively, but she did perform duties for 13 Marketing Department. In turn, I expected from Mr. Johnson 14 me. Other than that, no one else. 14 any feedback, any information that be and his team would pick 15 Q. What were your job responsibilities, your criteria 15 up to form more information or put more information in my, 16 for which your employment was concerned, what did you do in 16 what I call, data bank regarding pcbs. So, I looked upon it 17 that context? 17 as a two-way communications relationship. 18 A. I'll try to summarize it. I was given the 18 Q. One of the topics of discussion from this February 19 responsibility for keeping up to date on any information 19 4th, 1970 memo concerned the issue of a mailing list, and I 20 relating to pcbs and die environment. This included 20 believe on the record you have described it as a first draft 21 analytical methods, analysis of samples, presence in samples 21 mailing list. Can you tell me how many drafts of this 22 in the environment, the uses of pcbs, the handling and 22 mailing list ultimately came into existence? Page 92 Page 95 1 mishandling of pcbs, the risks involved compared to the 1 A. I don't know the exact number really. Initially 2 benefits, to communicate worldwide with governmental 2 there were at least three, and later on there were -- that 3 entities, university laboratories, governmental -- I 3 list was in turn appended two or three more times, I would 4 mentioned governmental agencies, industry, customers, anybody 4 say, and this is an estimate right now because I don't 5 who had any interest at all in pcbs. It was my job to keep 5 remember exactly, about a half a dozen times over a, say, 6 in touch and kind of let the left hand know what the right 6 two- or three-year period. 7 was doing. 7 Q. Okay. Earlier today your counsel indicated that 8 Q. Within the company or also in the context - 8 Monsanto had brought with them today a mailing list. That 9 A. Worldwide, within and without. 9 list was handed to counsel for Tennessee. Do we still have 10 Q. What was your involvement, your direct 10 that here on the table somewhere? Can I see that document? 11 involvement, with respect to the mailing of the letters 11 Are you familiar with this document which purports to be a 12 designated as Deposition Exhibit Nos. 6, 7, 8, 9,10, 11 and 12 list of numerous addresses that bears a cover memo dated 13 12? 13 March 4th, 1970? 14 A. Direct involvement? I participated in the 14 A. I'm familiar with the document as a whole, not 15 drafting of the letters. I participated in discussions 15 with each detailed item in it. 16 regarding the suitabilities of existing mailing lists and the 16 Q. Okay. This document as a whole, is this the 17 updating of these lists. I encouraged early action, as soon 17 mailing-- the ultimate form of the mailing list that came to 18 as possible. I was present nights and weekends when the 18 be from this first draft that was discussed in Mr. Johnson's 19 activity was ongoing. I was able to in essence look over the 19 memo? 20 shoulder of the people doing the typing and the stuffing of 20 MR. CARNEY: In terms of at this period of 21 envelopes and the placing of the envelopes in boxes that were 21 time? 22 sent to the mail room. That's the kind of activity that I 22 Q. Yes. Page 93 Page 96 1 got involved in. 1 A. Yes. This was the list that was finally developed 2 Q. What was your understanding of why Monsanto 2 for the February 1970 mailing list. 3 created this new Job position or title for yourself? 3 Q. Okay. Is this the first draft, or do you know if 4 A. Well, the information relating to pcbs in the 4 this is the first draft or a subsequent draft of the mailing 5 environment was being generated so rapidly, and that in turn 5 list? 6 created a lot of confusion in terms of communicating between 6 A. This is the final listing from which the mailings 7 laboratories, between governmental agencies. Even within 7 were made. 8 Monsanto there were two business groups involved, two 8 Q. I'd like to have this marked as Deposition Exhibit 9 research groups. They had a hard time themselves knowing, 9 No. 13. Do you know whether or not that list reflects an 10 again, to use the expression the left hand didn't know what 10 address for Tennessee Gas pipeline? 11 the right might be doing. And it was felt that someone ought 11 A. I believe I recall it's listed in there, yes. ' 12 to help coordinate all this, the job was created and I 12 Q. You indicated that this was the list mat was used 13 eventually ended up being assigned that task. 13 for, I believe, the February 1970 -- February 9th, 1970 14 Q. A lot of discussion was reflected in the record 14 letter, do you know whether this is the same list that was 15 today concerning a Mr. N. T. Johnson and a memo that Mr. 15 used to mail the other letters that are marked Deposition 16 Johnson wrote in February of 1970. Did Mr. Johnson ever 16 Exhibit Nos. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12? 17 report to you in any formal fashion in the sense of being 17 A. The list was used for, and I'm certain, for the 18 someone, an employee over which you had supervision? 18 letters 6, 7, 8. Hmm, I'm not certain about the Exhibits 9 19 A. No. 19 and 10. It could have been, but there was a change in 20 Q. Did Mr. Johnson work with you in any fashion in 20 listing at about that time, and No. 11 was from an expanded 21 the context of your job responsibilities as you've described 21 list, an appended list, as well as No. 12 came from the same 22 them on the record? 22 list that No. 11 came from. That's my best recollection. Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 91 - Page 96 WATER PCB-SD0000075761 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMWILLIAM B. PAPAGEORGE Page 97 Page 100 1 I'd have to see -- 1 CITY OF ST. LOUIS ) . 2 mr. carney: Just for the record, there are 2 ) SS 3 some exhibits that might refresh the witness' memory as to, 3 STATE OF MISSOURI ) 4 you know, what -- to answer that question. I think all the 4 5 witness is doing is doing the best job he can from memory. 5 6 Q. Okay. Do you know whether there woe any names 6 I, WILLIAM b. PAPAGEORGE, do hereby state that the 7 that were deleted from this list when the expanded list, or 7 foregoing statements are true and correct to the best of my 8 possibly 9 and 10 and definitely 11 and 12 were put together? 8 knowledge and belief. 9 A. Yeah. There were some deletions, yes. 9 10 Q. Do you know what the basis for those deletions 10 11 were, why were they deleted? 11 12 A. No. 12 13 MR. carney: Talking about a general policy, 13 14 because - 14 15 Q. Whether or not there was a general policy that 15 Subscribed and sworn to before me this dav of 16 certain names were to be deleted for some reason? 16 , 1995. 17 A. I can share with you what I recall. There were 17 18 some cases where companies went out of business, they didn't 18 19 exist any longer as an entity to which you could mail 19 20 anything to. Some companies changed their names and 20 21 addresses. Some were bought out by other companies and gave 21 NOTARY PUBLIC 22 us a new address for contacts. I'm sure that's not a 22 Page 98 Page 101 1 complete list of reasons, but it's a typical kind of thing 1 STATE OF MISSOURI ) 2 that nappens when you review mailing lists and want to be 2 ) SS 3 sure that they are relevant and helpful. 3 CITY OF ST. LOUIS ) 4 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not Tennessee was 4 5 deleted from these lists, the additional -- I'm sorry, the 5 I, Debra M. Musielak, Certified Shorthand Reporter 6 expanded list? 6 within and for the States of Missouri and Illinois, do hereby 7 A. You're saying Tennessee Gas Pipeline as a title? 7 certify that pursuant to agreement between the parties, the 8 Q. Yes. 8 aforementioned witness came before me at the time and place 9 A. I recall, I forget just which list it was, there 9 hereinbefore mentioned, and having been duly sworn to tell 10 was a list in which instead of Tennessee Gas Pipeline 10 the whole truth of his knowledge touching upon the matter in 11 Company, there was a reference to the Teneco Company. 11 controversy aforesaid; that he was examined on the day, and 12 MR. CARNEY: I'm just going to, for the 12 his examination was taken in shorthand and later reduced to 13 record, object. I think the lists are the best evidence of 13 printing; that signature by the witness is not waived and 14 what happened. I think the witness, since I've looked at the 14 said deposition is herewith returned and filed with the 15 lists, I think there was a change, or Tennessee Gas wasn't on 15 court. 16 subsequent lists, and Teneco was, but I think just to be 16 in witness whereof, i have hereunto subscribed my name 17 precise, I think the documents are the best evidence. 17 this day of January, 1995. 18 MS. GOULET: could Monsanto provide those? I 18 19 guess there was subsequent maybe one, maybe two lists from 19 20 what I'm understanding from what the witness has said. 20 21 MR. CARNEY: I'm willing to do that. Debra M. Musielak, rpr, cm 22 Q. Okay. You indicated that you were working late 21 22 1 2 3 4 5 Page 99 many nights in which you kind of stood over people's shoulders, watching a lot of processing of the stuffing of the envelopes, is it your understanding that after those envelopes were stuffed that they were put in the mail? A. Yes. 1, 2 4635,,, In the MaFttEeDrEoRPfARLOETNEECRTEGDYMREAGTEURLAIATLOJaRnYuCarOyM2M0,IS19S9IO5N TENNN.oER.SPRS9PE29E-II-O3220A3S PIPELINE CO. (A.TJTKoeciniunyduAti.)PPGPPCaCEBsB((AERTPRGn.,iTpArtrfCoeuNfvulcmCiepnrEnn:e))So:CrWsro:,rwSigech,lhltiff 6 MS. GOULET: I have no other questions. I 7 7 don't know if anyone else does. 8" ms. KIM: I have no questions. 9> MR. KERN: okay, the deposition is over. 10 Thank you Mr. Papageorge. 11 . ' DEPOSITION ADJOURNED: 12' 19A0 D1T$oeTtpaholosnmiutipomsnbooenrf&owfMfplaLitgcLehswe: llIB,C.SQPtALPoAuGisE,OMRGoEota3kl0en1 Jammy 18, 1995 11 Name *nd address of tl*person haying custody of the original 12 <k'"'UO" "H'&O 600 13 14 15 1.1.54 16 TaATTExtOrtxeaiThnnqAifdbMoLaitrrnTiecpcOoetaipoBtotyqoEfinrlfTngeeeApecyXo/hoEtaiatrDraikgg1iern.aN:gnFddA.e1nVpocOotoasRpriytyOi:ofPne:Te:ENN1,.J13PS_.25I,5P145E.3.L00I0NE:JM7.W 16 17 Tax info re attorneys ordering a copy: _ _ _ 17 18 19 18 19 20 TTTHTOOOOTTTaTAAAAULLLLTTTTtOOOOtSBBBBEEEESTTTTAAAAfXXXXfEiEEEmDDDD IIIINNN:N FFFFAAAAVVVVOOOORRRR OOOOPFFF TJMPoceoSipnnnnn1tas.7Ia.nPnAtlCet,odBr:vvCeourcoo.:urap5S:S11S2I228I828.8. g.88884444 20 21 21 22 pineUetphpoepnnaoiddre.mlivIatelircsyoaounrfsttiercaiopnafsbtceurdispilntisce,istdsa.iellacbhoavregecshawrgiletsbehapdaipdot yet 22 Page 102 ' Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Page 97 - Page 102 WATER PCB-SD0000075762 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. S [13 102:14 $117.30 [i] $128.84 [3] 102:19 102:19 $387.84 [i] '67 [2] 27:20 '68 [2] 27:21 '69 [l] 27:21 '70s [2] 44:8 '72 [X] 71:20 '94 [l] 51:12 00 [i] 1:20 1 [5] 3:10 6:3 84:13 1-17-95 [i] 10 [8] 1:20 52:8 84:21 96:16 96:19 100 [2] 2:8 1001 [i] 2:15 102 [i] 102:10 11 [7] 3:15 92:12 96:16 96:22 97:8 11.54 [2] 102:18 1101 [i] 2:12 llth[i] 83:14 12 [7j 86:17 96:21 3:15 92:13 97:8 1200 [2] 2:4 13 [3] 3:16 96:9 1300 [i] 2:8 1425 [l] 2:18 15 [i] 37:9 15ih[2] 2:21 102:17 102:18 102:16 29:17 29:17 44:8 5:20 102:15 51:17 3:14 92:12 97:8 50:16 85:9 96:20 102:15 85:22 96:16 102:12 3:17 85:2 71:13 71:18 1985 [l] 102:8 1986 [i] 17:1 1991 [i] 5:19 1994 [l] 51:11 1995 [5j 1:13 101:17 102:2 2 [8] 6:5 62:18 3:10 6:12 69:7 2-1-71 [i] 2-4-70 [i] 2-9-70 [i] 20 [i] 102:2 20004 [i] 20005 [i] 20036 [i] 2005 [i] 2:5 22 [i] 3:11 25 [i] 5:19 27th [i] 84:2 28 [i] 88:11 29 [2] 88:11 3 [7] 3:11 54:20 54:21 55:5 55:16 3-4-70 [i] 30 [7] 50:1 57:18 58:3 71:13 71:18 31 [2] 17:1 321 [l] 11:8 321.30 [i] 3rd [i] 86:4 4 [10] 22:11 38:1 51:19 3:6 25:19 50:5 87:8 17 [i] 3:11 4-15-71 [i] 17120 [i] 18 p] 1:13 1951 [i] 16:18 1968 [2] 24:12 1969 [4] 18:19 88:9 88:12 1970 [25] 24:6 25:19 29:8 29:16 47:3 47:7 67:10 67:12 83:14 84:2 91:1 91:5 93:16 .94:19 96:2 96:13 1970s [3] 45:3 66:8 1971 [2] 84:13 1972 [3] 3:15 85:15 1973 [i6] 50:1 54:20 55:4 55:5 57:1 57:18 58:7 67:13 2:19 102:9 29:11 29:8 17:22 27:21 40:16 47:11 82:16 88:2 91:7 95:13 96:13 44:5 85:2 85:13 47:4 54:21 55:16 58:3 71:4 40 [l] 52:8 43266 [i] 49 [i] 3:12 492.590 m 4th [2] 94:19 5 [5] 3:12 3:10 49:22 55.00 [i] 57.03 [i] 5700 [i] 3:3 6 [6] _ 3:12 88:3 88:4 96:18 6-22-70m 600 [2] 2:4 60606 [i] 63101m 102:9 63102 m 63141m 7 [S] 3:13 92:12 96:16 7-30-73 m 86:4 100:16 102:9 5:21 6:19 102:8 3:14 3:11 3:12 2:16 102:12 2:12 88:11 18:2 55:4 3:16 57:1 58:7 67:13 102:15 3:11 29:16 50:22 3:14 2:22 102:8 95:13 3:10 55:6 102:14 102:8 86:17 92:12 3:13 102:12 3:3 1:20 2:9 11:9 83:7 96:18 3:12 Condenselt1 77 [i] 2:21 8[J] 3:13 83:20 92:12 96:16 96:18 8-27-70m 3:13 8-3-73 m 3:15 82 m 3:12 3:13 83 m 3:13 84 m 3:14 3:14 3:15 85 m 3:15 86 m 3:6 8613 m 55:10 8615 m 55:10 8616 m 56:10 8617 m 56:10 9 mi 40:16 84:10 96:16 3:14 66:13 88:2 96:18 23:15 67:10 92:12 97:8 9-9-69m 3:11 90 m 3:7 95 pi 3:16 20:2 52:2 [] 40:6 47:7 47:10 96:13 a [496] 2:1 4:7 6:1 8:8 9:4 10:5 11:6 11:17 12:3 12:6 12:17 13:1 13:11 13:21 14:18 14:22 15:5 15:9 16:4 16:15 17:1 17:8 17:15 17:22 18:9 19:8 20:15 21:4 21:10 22:2 22:16 22:22 23:6 23:13 24:1 24:11 24:21 25:6 25:19 26:6 26:14 27:9 27:13 1:16 2:1 4:18 6:2 8:10 9:9 10:15 11:8 11:19 12:3 12:11 12:19 13:1 13:12 14:4 14:21 15:3 15:7 15:11 16:7 16:18 17:4 17:12 17:15 18:1 18:14 19:17 20:21 21:6 21:12 22:11 22:1-9 22:22 23:7 23:17 24:5 24:15 25:2 25:17 26:2 26:9 26:22 27:12 27:16 1:20 2:1 4:18 8:7 8:15 9:11 10:18 11:15 11:22 12:6 12:16 12:21 13:6 13:14 14:6 14:22 15:4 15:8 15:11 16:12 16:21 17:6 17:12 17:16 18:2 19:1 19:18 21:2 21:7 21:20 22:13 22:22 23:3 23:10 23:21 24:5 24:21 25:3 25:18 26:5 26:12 27:8 27:12 27:21 Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 28:10 28:21 30:13 31:5 31:16 32:7 32:19 33:8 34:1 34:8 35:15 36:21 37:4 37:19 39:1 39:6 40:5 40:9 40:15 41:3 41:13 41:20 42:4 42:14 42:17 43:18 44:6 44:16 45:10 46:4 46:18 47:17 48:11 48:17 49:11 50:5 51:14 52:4 53:11 54:4 55:1 56:15 57:2 57:9 58:1 58:12 58:17 59:4 59:17 60:21 61:6 61:13 62:1 62:19 63:13 63:20 63:21 64:7 65:1 66:14 67:8 67:22 68:13 68:22 70:6 70:20 71:4 71:20 72:15 73:11 74:9 75:20 77:2 78:10 28:16 29:3 30:16 31:6 32:5 32:11 33:3 33:12 34:2 34:11 36:11 37:1 37:12 37:20 39:2 39:11 40:5 40:9 40:17 41:8 41:13 42:2 42:5 42:14 43:6 44:1 44:8 45:1 45:19 46:9 47:6 48:6 48:15 49:5 49:15 50:6 51:16 52:12 53:15 54:15 56:5 56:18 57:6 57:13 58:4 58:15 58:19 59:7 60:10 61:1 61:8 61:14 62:6 63:5 63:14 63:20 64:4 64:8 65:19 66:22 67:17 68:5 68:15 69:4 70:10 71:2 71:9 72:4 72:20 73:15 74:11 76:16 77:4 78:16 28:19 29:16 31:3 31:9 32:7 32:15 33:4 33:13 34:3 34:20 36:20 37:2 37:13 38:19 39:4 40:4 40:6 40:13 41:2 41:12 41:14 42:4 42:14 42:15 43:13 44:3 44:13 45:8 45:22 46:13 47:14 48:8 48:16 49:9 49:19 51:9 51:17 53:5 54:3 54:16 56:7 56:21 57:6 57:18 58:9 58:15 58:20 59:15 60:14 61:5 61:9 61:22 62:17 63:10 63:15 63:20 64:6 64:14 66:12 67:4 67:21 68:11 68:18 69:11 70:18 71:4 71:14 72:14 73:11 73:20 75:5 77:1 78:2 79:7 $ - 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Aroclors pj 87:12 47:12 article [i] 88:10 articulate [i] 59:17 assess [i] 6:11 assessment [i] 4:13 assigned p] 45:9 47:14 93:13 Assistant [i] 4:21 assisting [i] 71:5 associate [i] 52:6 associated p] 4:12 21:14 assume p] 6:13 6:20 19:20 assuming [i] 46:16 assure [i] 73:9 attached pj 55:6 55:22 88:4 3:17 88:2 attachment [i] 54:20 attempt p] 20:17 75:19 78:19 attempting pj 37:11 82:5 attend [i] 79:8 Attendance pj 102:14 attention [S] 28:9 31:1 50:20 23:18 39:13 Avenue p] 2:15 2:12 avoid [4] 18:16 24:1 39:4 49:9 aware [8] 24:3 24:5 44:14 46:20 89:2 10:4 28:1 66:9 |Bp] 1:16 3:9 10:20 11:6 15:16 100:6 102:9 [background [i] 18:10 bad [5] 31:12 40:18 43:14 43:15 43:21 bankp] 94:16 [barp] 78:19 based p] 78:19 73:5 [basic p] 18:18 18:19 basically p] 33:18 basis [2] 26:22 [Bate [4] 19:17 52:14 53:11 97:10 20:6 Bates p] 52:11 52:17 55:9 bearp] 50:5 bears p] 76:2 95:12 beating p] 79:21 became p] 17:17 19:2 17:14 become p] 29:5 [begin p] 17:20 10:4 beginning p] 24:22 27:16 59:1 behalf p2] 2:6 2:10 2:17 2:20 7:5 9:15 12:4 73:2 2:2 2:13 7:4 11:20 behind p] 48:20 42:5 attorney [io] 6:7 6:15 22:1 38:18 72:3 73:2 4:18 6:16 38:21 102:14 attorney's [i] 62:15 attorney-client [4] 14:2 14:11 38:6 38:8 attorneys p2] 6:19 12:9 12:13 13:4 15:14 15:15 16:11 102:17 6:13 12:11 13:17 16:6 audience p] 88:16 belabor p] belief p] believe po] ' 18:12 18:20 19:13 19:22 49:12 50:15 51:20 52:21 63:10 64:4 71:20 94:20 96:13 [belong pi below [i] benefits p] 92:2 9:13 100:8 18:11 19:10 34:8 51:4 63:3 65:1 96:11 55:11 45:11 15:6 Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Index Page 2 WATER PCB-SD0000075764 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. best [ii] 22:19 57:2 61:10 67:16 96:22 98:13 98:17 between m 7:2 13:17 93:6 93:7 beyond [10] 18:5 44:22 75:3 75:18 89:20 90:2 big [i] 61:8 bill [i] 26:18 billed [i] biphenyls [i] Bistline m 4:20 5:8 bit [i] 80:8 blank [i] Bob [2] 50:4 both [7] 31:12 43:14 43:15 50:5 69:17 bottom [3] 52:12 52:17 bought P] 97:21 bound m 9:8 9:22 box[i] 52:7 boxes [4] 53:4 53:8 boy [i] 12:16 break 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102:8 102:21 102:21 check [i] 10:13 chemical [nj 87:21 88:5 88:13 88:22 89:3 90:5 90:9 87:20 88:8 88:22 90:8 chemicals [2] 90:8 90:9 Chicago [i] 3:3 chipti] 63:16 chose [i] 70:11 chronological [i] 17:8 circumstances [i] 44:11 CITY [2] 101:3 100:1 claim [i] 90:5 claims [i] 6:11 clarification [4] 56:1 67:3 68:19 80:13 clarify [8] 32:18 37:4 56:14 57:21 76:7 32:10 55:20 70:1 clear [2i] 8:15 33:19 36:8 42:6 51:13 53:7 56:10 61:6 66:3 66:4 74:8 78:17 80:13 89:15 8:13 35:19 42:8 53:14 65:12 73:10 79:22 clearer [i] 21:7 clearly [5] 74:4 76:2 80:15 35:8 76:5 close [2] 44:17 44:20 CM[i] 101:20 CO [l] 102:3 coach [i] 74:4 coaching [3] 35:20 36:9 33:18 colloquy [5] 33:13 33:16 79:5 33:9 79:1 Columbus [i] 2:22 commence [i] 16:16 commencing [i] 1.20 comment p] 40:9 Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 74:2 74:19 74:20 74:22 comments [7] 23:1 23:1 23:3 23:5 37:4 49:13 62:11 Commission [sj 1:6 4:11 5:5 12:10 102:1 Commonwealth [2] 6:7 6:16 communicate [i] 92:2 communicated [4] 13:4 23:8 38:7 38:10 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conflicting [i] 7:14 confrontation [i] 18:17 confused [2] 56:5 56:4 confusion [4] 49:10 55:18 56:11 93:6 Connecticut [i] 2:12 connection [i] 50:11 consciously [i] 31:20 considered [i] 29:9 consistent [i] 10:14 consolidate [i] 26:20 Construction [i] 17:10 consultant [3] 15:8 15:9 15:11 Consumer [4] 2:17 6:8 6:17 90:18 consumers [i] 90:20 CONSUMERS '[X] 2:20 contact [5] 32:6 41:14 86:15 32:5 42:5 contacts [is] 31:21 32:3 33:7 34:13 37:9 40:20 41:17 42:13 43:21 97:22 31:11 33:5 37:7 41:1 43:15 contained [S] 27:2 66:7 86:14 25:12 67:12 containing [ii] 4:15 41:4 41:10 47:11 48:2 67:2 67:22 70:10 71:12 71:17 86:12 contains [S] 45:5 60:3 65:5 44:19 60:13 contend [8] 82:15 84:1 85:1 85:11 86:3 81:9 84:12 85:13 contending [3] 4:22 8:16 76:20 contends [i] context [4] 92:8 93:21 83:13 91:17 94:6 continual [i] 79:5 continually [i] 78:17 continue [8] 36:4 36:17 61:21 61:22 36:3 45:16 68:6 Index Page 3 WATER PCB-SD0000075765 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co.CondenseltTMcontinued - Edward 89:11 continued [3] 9:21 37:3 82:1 continuing [i] 33:13 continuously [i] 16:19 contrary [2] 9:10 9:4 Control [i] 91:4 controversy [i] 101:11 conversations [4] 28:18 34:17 38:9 67:5 converse [3] 12:9 14:4 30:17 conversed [i] 12:11 convert [i] 63:19 conveyed [i] 21:16 coordinate [i] 93:12 cope[i] 39:22 copied [l] 19:3 copies [7] 5:21 21:12 21:14 31:17 48:18 52:10 55:22 copy [13] 6:1 6:2 25:17 25:17 47:17 48:16 51:14 51:17 87:12 88:10 102:15 102:17 102:17 copying [2] 102:18 102:15 corem 77:16 corner [2] 58:13 20:2 correct [23] 7:8 10:7 11:14 13:5 14:6 15:10 23:10 27:7 40:17 42:1 44:16 50:15 63:4 66:19 100:7 6:4 10:18 14:5 23:9 29:3 43:13 59:11 66:22 correctly [i] 58:9 correspondence [2] 10:11 63:21 costs [i] 4:12 counsel [19] 1:17 2:20 4:21 6:17 14:3 18:20 20:19 22:5 38:4 69:22 71:49 72:21 73:11 76:21" 77:10 81:17 82:3 95:7 - 95:9 couple^] 87:6 course [] 43:6 62:9 65:19 74:16 74:16 102:22 court [2] 1:21 101:15 cover [3] 25:18 27:20 95:12 covered [i] 10:10 covering [i] 24:7 created [4] 91:7 93:3 93:6 93:12 crew[i] 41:12 criteria [i] Cross [4] 3:7 87:2 Crowell [2] 102:5 cure [2] 34:1 current [4] 27:6 29:7 custody [l] customer [24] 6:18 8:2 8:6 8:8 19:9 23:22 24:11 25:4 26:16 26:17 37:9 37:9 42:15 49:10 63:16 90:5 customer's [i] customers [44] 4:16 5:1 8:17 21:13 23:21 24:4 27:18 29:2 29:6 29:6 29:8 34:18 35:10 37:7 45:3 47:15 48:14 49:7 62:21 63:1 66:18 70:10 83:14 84:2 85:2 85:12 85:16 86:3 92:4 cut [3] 25:10 77:15 D [3] 3:5 102:7 D.C[4] 2:5 2:16 102:12 data [2] 20:14 date [4] 13:2 88:8 91:19 dated [7] 19:1 40:5 50:1 58:3 95:12 day [3] 17:1 100:15 101:11 day-to-day [i] Debra [3] 101:5 101:20 December [3] 47:4 67:12 decidep] 48:7 79:2 decision p] 65:12 65:13 68:22 decisions [i] deemm 30:18 defect [i] defective [i] defending [i] deficient [i] define [3] 45:17 60:17 91:15 3:6 90:15 2:14 82:5 24:8 37:15 102:11 3:16 8:5 9:3 24:10 25:5 27:5 41:13 58:20 39:12 4:12 8:7 23:16 24:8 29:3 29:7 35:2 41:18 48:12 59:9 63:8 76:2 84:13 85:15 86:5 77:4 4:1 2:12 94:16 50:16 25:18 57:18 30:15 101:17 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49:12 66:15 69:4' 71:18 95:7 30:1 53:4 71:17 earliest [i] 27:17 early [6] 44:5 53:2 66:8 92:17 45:3 90:22 easyp] 80:3 edit [i] 23:2 edited [2] 49:18 49:12 editing [i] 57:4 Edward [2] 2:11 Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Index Page L WATER PCB-SD0000075766 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. 87:4 93:13 effect [i] effective [i] either [2] 88:11 Electric [6] 41:12 41:13 42:4 42:16 7:16 79:6 46:9 41:8 42:3 everybody [i] evidence p] 98:13 98:17 exact [4] 71:9 91:2 95:1 exactly p] 95:5 6:20 67:16 88:10 44:9 Electrics [i] 41:9 eliminate [i] 25:12 embedded [l] 33:22 employed [i] 16:19 employee [4] 15:4 17:18 71:4 93:18 employees [4] 12:12 13:8 13:8 14:4 employment [2] 16:16 91:16 examination pj 1:17 3:6 3:6 3:7 11:2 87:2 90:15 101:12 examined [i] 101:11 example [i4] 8:15 24:2 37:6 39:5 41:3 41:3 42:1 42:4 66:7 8:14 24:12 39:18 41:20 42:17 encourage [i] 41:15 examples [i] 39:15 encouraged [2] 92:17 94:12 end [2] 24:2 51:12 ended [i] 93:13 ending [i] 59:2 Except [i] exchange [i] excised [i] 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90:16 99:6 Government [i] 18:15 governmental p] 92:2 92:3 92:4 93:7 grossly [i] grounds pj 60:3 60:13 group [io] 2:13 6:18 24:6 45:10 90:19 102:5 35:21 14:15 65:5 2:10 9:16 45:10 102:19 groups [2] 93:9 93:8 guess [5] 10:9 15:12 51:11 79:21 98:19 guy [i] 45:18 guys [i] 54:11 H [2] 2:15 3:9 half p] 8:8 95:5 hand p] 62:21 92:6 93:10 handed PI 73:15 Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Index Page 5 WATER PCB-SD0000075767 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. 95:9 handle [i] handling [i] Hanley [i] happening [i] hard [4i 61:10 88:11 93:9 Hardin [i] Harrisburg [i] health [i] hear[i] 58:9 heard [3] 32:8 79:14 62:7 91:22 3:2 74:1 79:12 2:11 2:19 17:18 44:15 73:21 75:4 impropriety [2] 53:17 53:21 inactive [l] 29:7 inadequacies [i] 28:21 inadequacy [2] 24:19 28:4 inadequate [6] 23:20 24:4 24:7 27:22 28:15 29:9 inappropriate pj 33:15 35:21 55:3 80:15 hearing [9] 10:1 10:5 10:17 75:20 79:3 79:7 5:4 10:13 78:19 heat[] 63:2 63:13 63:21 76:2 63:9 64:2 Hedlund [i] 3:2 held [3] 17:3 71:8 17:5 help [5] 26:2 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80:5 80:6 81:11 81:15 87:18 opportunity [6] 9:12 10:1 37:22 54:14 56:16 72:11 opposed [3] 12:20 75:21 78:21 orally [2] 73:6 23:8 order [is] 3:10 3:10 5:20 6:2 7:15 9:13 9:18 9:22 41:10 74:11 jorderingm 1:3 5:18 6:14 9:17 25:8 102:17 orders [2] 7:19 7:14 ordinary [i] 39:18 organization [i] 39:12 orig[i] 102:15 original [3] 32:20 102:11 ought [3] 74:21 93:11 25:20 66:11 outside^] overall [2] 45:13 overbroad [4] 66:11 67:15 88:17 9:18 64:10 94:2 overreaction [i] 70:13 overriding [i] 6:10 Overseeing [i] 46:13 oversight [i] 64:16 owe [i] 26:8 owed [i] 27:6 own [2] 16:13 |P [4] 2:21 2:1 4:1 69:15 2:1 P.C [i] 2:3 page [3] 48:5 69:7 pages [i] 62:18 102:10 paid [2] 102:21 102:21 Papageorge [72] 1:16 4:5 10:20 11:5 11:6 15:16 19:1 20:18 22:4 22:10 22:14 24:9 25:21 28:6 28:14 29:18 30:5 30:22 31:11 33:16 34:10 35:5 36:3 38:3 42:21 43:1 46:5 46:18 Condenselt TM 46:20 54:13 56:16 61:21 66:5 70:8 74:9 75:19 78:1 79:7 82:9 85:11 87:4 89:7 48:3 55:19 60:7 62:19 68:1 73:1 75:7 77:3 78:19 80:12 82:12 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56:7 Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 Index Page 9 WATER PCB-SD0000075771 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. pretext [i] pretty [i] prevent [i] previous [i] previously [3] 63:2 71:8 printing [i] priority p] 63:15 privilege p] 14:16 38:6 prop] 30:16 75:18 52:9 75:19 51:16 37:5 101:13 63:14 14:11 38:8 6:2 6:14 7:19 9:12 9:18 9:22 prove [i] provide pj 13:10 18:17 98:18 provided m 5:12 7:11 49:13 50:10 51:3 77:2 providing p] 53:19 7:15 9:17 74:11 18:16 11:7 26:12 5:7 9:17 51:1 20:13 probative [i] 70:6 problem [6] 13:21 36:18 68:5 81:4 9:16 39:22 problems [i] 45:8 procedure [i] 46:11 proceed [i] 75:7 proceeding po] 4:10 4:11 4:16 5:13 5:19 6:9 7:6 7:7 7:9 7:11 7:16 7:18 8:19 9:1 9:19 13:10 19:9 20:10 22:7 50:12 51:2 72:7 72:8 72:17 73:5 73:16 74:11 75:12 86:11 90:20 proceedings [4] 7:12 37:2 73:12 81:22 process [i] 37:12 processing p] 63:14 99:2 produce [i] 25:14 produced [i3] 19:11 19:13 51:8 51:11 52:3 52:5 52:22 53:3 7:17 20:9 52:3 52:19 54:3 product [3] 41:11 41:16 42:14 production p] 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87:18 Index Page 11 WATER PCB-SD0000075773 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. shoulder [i] shoulders [i] show [5] 18:1 66:11 76:17 shown [2] 86:18 shows [i] side [2] 19:9 signature [2] 102:13 signed [i] Silverstein m 10:17 simple [3] 80:3 81:13 since m 23:20 54:17 55:8 90:1 98:14 single [2] 35:11 singular [X] 92:20 99:2 36:7 82:9 19:3 52:8 19:12 101:13 6:18 4:8 39:2 44:4 56:15 34:1 58:10 48:1:8 59:16 68:4 68:1:5 78:10 specifically [3] 5:5 26:10 48:11 specifics [4] 17:4 43:7 14:2 49:17 specified [i] 44:22 speculate [4] 28:3 28:9 29:22 70:4 speculating [i] 16:11 speculation [7] 15:18 16:9 28:12 32:2 39:10 69:21 70:5 speed [i] 7:21 spokesmen [i] 74:21 Square [i] 2:18 Sreet[i] 102:12 ss [2] 100:2 101:2 St [7] 1:14 2:9 11:8 101:3 102:9 1:19 100:1 sir [so] 21:10 22:15 23:17 24:11 27:8 31:2 34:20 48:19 54:15 57:4 20:21 22:2 22:19 23:19 24:13 28:18 31:4 40:4 50:1 56:16 58:4 63:6 64:15 65:8 65:16 69:6 69:6 78:2 78:4 83:8 84:10 85:9 85:22 sit [i] 48:19 sites [i] 4:14 situation [3] 13:21 41:13 53:5 somehow [i] someone [2] 93:18 something [7] 8:15 32:17 55:3 76:7 sometimes [3] 33:11 80:9 somewhat [i] 21:6 22:12 23:7 24:3 24:15 28:20 34:11 42:2 54:14 56:20 63:5 65:2 67:4 69:13 82:10 84:21 87:16 8:8 52:4 8:22 93:11 7:14 49:15 91:1 8:4 74:18 Staci [i] 2:4 Staff [i] 45:22 stamp [2] 53:11 stamping [i] stand [i] 38:12 standard [i] stands [3] 89:6 89:21 stapled [2] 55:14 Stapleton [i] stapling [i] start [2] 42:12 started [i] starting [i] Starts [i] 37:17 state [i2] 1:21 11:4 22:3 54:7 72:19 75:15 100:3 101:1 stated m 35:8 49:12 63:2 66:7 statement [6] 22:9 53:15 82:3 102:8 statements [2] 100:7 20:6 52:14 32:7 50:6 55:2 58:14 55:3 82:2 27:17 4:15 10:8 42:12 75:10 100:6 18:15 57:13 82:3 10:18 62:19 86:11 somewhere [i] soon[i] 92:17 soonerfi] sorry [X] 98:5 | South [i] southern [i] speak [i] speaking [i] special [2] 37:16 specific [i2] 24:18 26:4 31:16 32:5 95:10 62:12 2:21 12:16 52:5 49:5 37:13 24:17 27:3 43:19 states [5] 18:15 18:15 101:6 station [i] status [i] steam [i] steps [i] 63:18 sterilizer [i] Steven [ij Still [5] 32:15 37:19 48:14 stipulate [X] stock [i] 16:13 1:4 48:4 4:14 72:14 17:13 63:17 3:2 33:5 95:9 76:11 CondenseltTM Stood [i] 99:1 stop [2] 36:2 Story [i] 35:5 straying [i] 74:9 14:13 Street [2] 2:21 2:4 strike m 42:10 43:2 75:13 75:13 strongly [i] 40:19 47:8 85:13 75:20 stuck [i] 46:1 stuffed [i] 99:4 stuffing [2] 99:2 92:20 styled [i] 4:8 subject m 6:10 9:18 10:16 19:4 74:11 75:20 5:2 10:5 39:17 subordinates [i] 91:11 subplant [i] 73:8 subpoena [i7j 4:7 -1-2-:-1--0 13:1 13:1 13:12 14:5 44:22 61:21 75:14 75:20 79:8 1:18 12:19 13:9 22:6 73:6 79:8 subpoenaed [4] 12:4 73:1 75:12 B89O:B8 subpoenas [i] 12:21 subscribe [i] 90:10 subscribed [3] 88:22 100:15 101:16 subscribes [i] 90:6 subsequent [3] 96:4 98:16 98:19 subsequently [i] 18:10 substance [3] 28:18 38:9 43:10 substances [i] 47:11 substitution [i] 56:6 such [3] 9:19 28:22 47:19 suggest [4] 80:20 81:9 76:19 81:18 suggested [i] suggesting [6] 73:7 77:13 78:21 81:19 49:18 53:20 77:14 suggestion [i] 53:16 suggestions [i] 78:18 suitabilities [i] 92:16 Suite [4j 2:4 2:8 3:3 102:12 summarize [i] 91:18 supervising [2] 17:11 46:10 supervision [4] 17:9 17:10 17:15 93:18 supervisor [i] 47:14 supervisory [i] 46:9 Rankin Reporting & Legal Video 231-2202 shoulder - think supplemented M 47:20 supplied [i] 82:4 supplier [i] 5:10 sure [i3] 9:2 25:21 27:4 32:8 39:19 65:11 66:1 97:22 98:3 13:17 29:1 45:20 81:1 surmise m swear [i] 73:17 4:3 sworn [4] 4:4 10:21 100:15 101:9 V ~ -- 87:6 63:18 T[5] 3:9 23:9 23:11 58:16 93:15 table [2] 33:14 95:10 tact [i] 62:2 tactic [i] 79:11 take [is] 9:5 36:6 37:1 46:13 47:7 54:18 56:7 71:7 80:20 83:1 18:2 37:12 50:2 61:21 81:20 taken [4] 4:7 63:18 101:12 102:9 takes [X] 61:9 12:19 40:11 60:11 72:9 74:21 76:14 77:4 81:15 82:19 84:6 85:18 86:19 95:9 98:7 102:3 19:15 40:14 72:3 73:8 76:3 76:15 77:11 81:16 83:2 84:17 86:7 87:6 96:10 98:10 20:8 59:21 72:4 73:15 76:12 76:15 79:6 81:18 83:17 85:5 86:11 90:21 98:4 98:15 Tennessee's [2] 5:9 73:4 term [4] 40:19 40:22 43:12 61:14 terminate [i] 89:9 terms [is] 14:13 24:7 44:19 45:5 60:4 60:4 60:13 62:8 93:6 95:20 9:18 32:4 46:14 60:13 65:5 testified [2] 77:17 35:15 testify [5] 14:8 22:7 73:6 5:4 73:4 taking [3] 33:3 81:5 102:14 testifying [4] 13:13 30:4 35:16 35:17 Talisman [2] 102:11 talk [2] 37:10 talked [2] 66:15 talking [ie] 29:12 29:14 32:3 32:16 45:17 47:1 65:16 67:9 78:9 78:10 talks [i] 37:18 task [2] 47:15 Tax [2] 102:14 TAXED [5] 102:18 102:19 102:20 team [2] 94:12 tell [20] 28:17 50:6 60:22 70:19 87:13 88:16 10:21 32:9 52:1 66:4 70:20 88:1 94:21 Itemporary [i] Tenecop] 98:16 Tenn[4] 102:3 102:16 102:19 Tennessee [59] 1:17 2:2 4:6 4:8 4:16 5:1 5:12 6:6 6:17 7:2 2:3 76:5 37:5 27:10 29:21 37:14 47:6 68:4 97:13 93:13 102:17 102:16 102:19 94:14 26:11 33:17 52:15 69:12 78:7 88:8 101:9 47:20 98:11 102:5 1:9 2:13 4:11 5:9 6:15 7:6 I testimony [isj 14 /2S :. 2*0/I 11 3:.11 A0 34:22 35:8 35:13 35:14 38:3 41:22 65:11 73:8 4:18 30:2 35:9 35:21 45:16 Thank [i2] 28:20 29:18 52:20 69:5 84:9 85:8 90:12 99:10 24:9 48:3 83:20 86:10 themselves [i] 93:9 Therminols [3] 54:21 55:7 59:15 thick [X] 8:9 thin [i] 80:8 thing [3] 10:9 74:3 98:1 things [3] 28:22 37:8 47:19 think [84] 6:18` 9:5 10:10 10:10 13:16 14:9 14:12 15:18 18:5 18:7 30:1 30:12 33:15 34:1 35:21 36:10 36:16 39:9 42:19 42:20 46:2 51:9 55:10 56:1 60:3 61:4 62:3 62:11 66:11 67:1 67:15 69:19 6:14 10:3 10:14 14:10 15:19 29:20 32:1 35:18 36:12 41:2 45:5 53:10 57:18 61:18 66:11 67:1 69:21 Index Page 12 WATER PCB-SD0000075774 Tennessee Gas Pipeline Co. 70:2 72:16 74:4 74:22 75:17 76:16 78:22 80:14 70:5 72:18 74:7 75:2 75:17 76:22 79:19 81:2 88:3 90:2 98:13 98:16 89:21 94:2 98:14 98:17 third [l] 62:19 Thomas [i] Thompson p] 102:9 thought p] 73:20 thousands p] 66:2 threat [i] threats [i] three p] 27:18 33:21 35:3 55:22 95:2 I three-year [i] 34:7 77:4 tie [i] tied [i] 47:3 77:15 89:10 27:1 70:6 73:21 74:20 75:3 76:8 77:2 80:4 81:3 90:1 97:4 98:15 2:7 1:19 28:4 8:17 62:6 62:4 30:2 52:3 95:3 95:6 18:6 52:7 86:17 top [5] 20:2 45:17 45:21 51:15 51:17 [topics [i] 94:18 Total [] 102:10 102:16 102:18 102:19 102:19 102:20 totally p] 77:21 34:22 touch [i] 92:6 | touching [i] 101:10 towards [i] 51:12 Tower pi 3:3 TRAN [i] 19:17 transcript [4] 10:13 10:16 102:11 102:17 Transcription [i] 102:15 transcripts [i] 102:21 transfer [6] 63:2 63:9 63:13 63:22 64:2 76:2 transformer p] 41:9 41:12 42:15 transformers pj 39:18 41:4 41:6 41:7 41:15 transmission [3] 24:2 39:5 39:15 Transwestern p] 19:18 20:2 time [44] 15:9 19:1 22:17 27:16 27:19 33:3 34:2 34:14 34:19 43:20 44:8 47:6 49:5 50:3 53:13 54:6 54:8 57:1 57:1 65:4 68:1 68:16 69:9 73:14 83:14 84:13 91:3 95:21 96:20 [times [S] 8:4 32:8 95:3 title [6] 58:19 91:2 91:10 98:7 TNGS[5] 50:6 52:12 55:9 Itoday pi]5:2 " 5:11 14:10 11:16 21:9 -23:1 43:8 43:10 48:19 72:15 79:14 93:15 95:7 95:8 together p] 37:12 37:17 47:19 57:8 :tolerant [i] tOO[i] 53:16 took [2] 38:4 17:17 24:20 31:19 34:12 43:11 46:13 49:19 53:22 54:18 59:4 68:13 71:17 84:2 93:9 101:8 32:8 95:5 71:9 93:3 50:5 53:11 4:16 5:16 14:17 36:1 44:2 76:19 94:7 26:15 37:19 97:8 80:7 38:22 Treffnerp] 59:2 trial [i] 20:1 tried [3] 14:12 26:19 50:19 trouble p] 47:9 46:3 troubling [i] 81:11 true p] 51:16 100:7 truth pj 10:21 10:22 10:22 81:2 101:10 try [i4] 26:4 32:18 37:4 62:1 17:6 28:19 32:19 61:10 62:14 17:8 29:5 36:3 61:22 91:18 trying pi] 14:3 *15:12 35:20 53:21 54:4 61:19 80:7 13:19 30:15 53:22 79:22 turn [6] 23:18 93:5 94:12 95:3 31:1 94:13 two [16] 26:20 29:6 3--3-:-2--1 37:19 37:19 52:3 54:8 93:8 93:8 95:6 98:19 26:21 37:8 45:11 61:20 95:3 two-minute p] 36:22 37:1 two-way [i] 94:17 type [io] 13:14 64:12 65:17 67:6 67:19 69:3 90:10 20:14 66:1 69:1 Condenselt TM types pj 55:22 78:3 typical [i] 98:1 [typing [i] 92:20 typo p] 87:13 87:14 [uh-huhp] 45:12 57:3 ultimate [i] 95:17 ultimately pj 58:7 90:20 94:22 unawares [i] 62:22 unclear [i] 29:20 undefined [5] 44:19 45:5 60:4 60:13 65:5 underpj 35:15 35:17 58:12 underscored [i] 31:15 7:16 8:12 32:9 33:11 39:17 53:22 72:22 7:19 14:21 32:16 33:17 42:22 61:6 73:3 7:20 30:16 33:10 35:5 53:21 64:22 understanding [44] Q9:.110A 1lA0.:o3 1in0.:10 10:15 28:7 32:12 32:12 35:10 40:21 40:22 43:1 46:5 47:9 48:19 48:22 49:1 51:22 52:6 52:18 53:12 56:14 60:22 61:7 61:12 61:14 63:6 63:11 69:6 69:9 69:11 69:12 69:14 69:15 69:16 70:2 70:4 70:9 70:20 71:1 76:10 90:7 93:2 98:20 99:3 understandings [i] 37:6 understood [i] 49:5 Unfortunately p] 31:13 43:3 unintelligible [i] 80:9 UNITED pj 1:4 Universities [i] 18:16 university [i] 92:3 unless [i] unlikely [i] 78:17 24:15 until p] 13:12 16:20 17:19 Up [17] 17:18 29:10 39:12 56:8 91:19 7:1& 27:21 29:11 46:11 56:10 93:13 7:21 29:1 36:1 50:16 66:14 94:15 up-to-date [i] 26:16 pdating [i] 92:17 upper [i] 58:13 upset [l] 70:11 upsetting [i] 53:17 _________third - work used [17] 14:21 25:1 25:8 26:14 30:13 69:3 74:10 74:15 74:18 96:12 96:15 useful [i] usesp] 91:22 using p] 23:22 32:6 33:5 63:16 72:10 utility p] 42:14 utilize [i] utilized pj 67:7 67:19 vague [ii] 32:1 33:6 39:9 46:12 60:4 65:6 80:10 vaguely [i] Valley [i] value [i] 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