Document e7kzrQMErnVQ83M0p316EM6re

MAYASKY STATE OF ALABAMA IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF CALHOUN COUNTY MARS HILL MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH, et al . , versus Piaintiffs, CIVIL ACTION NUMBER CV-96-243 MONSANTO COMPANY, et al., Defendants. / DEPOSITION OF JACK MAYAUSKY The deposition of JACK MAYAUSKY, was taken before Deborah Salers Garrett, Certified Shorthand Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, as Commissioner, commencing at 10:15 a.m. on April 7, 1998, by the Plaintiffs, at the law offices of Merrill, Porch, Dillon & Fite, Suite 500, 1000 Quintard Avenue, Anniston, Alabama, pursuant to the stipulations set forth herein. Regional Reporting Service, Inc. 755 Walnut Street Gadsden, Alabama 35901-0755 1 APPEARANCES 2 For the Plaintiffs: 3 CHARLES CUNNINGHAM, Esq. Morrissey Building, Suite 200 4 304 West Liberty Street Page 1 MAYASKY Louisville, Kentucky 40202 5 DONALD W. STEWART, Esq. 6 STEWART & SMITH 1131 Leighton Avenue 7 Anniston, Alabama 36201 8 For the Defendants: 9 ADAM PECK, Esq. LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 10 300 Financial Center 505 North 20th Street 11 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 12 13 INDEX 14 15 Stipulations 16 Reporter's Certificate 17 EXAMINATIONS 18 Witness: JACK MAYAUSKY 19 By Mr. Stewart 20 21 22 23 Page 4 327 Page 5 1 2 Pl aintiffs' 3 One 4 Two 5 Three 6 Four 7 Five 8 Six 9 Seven 10 Eight EXHIBITS Marked 90 158 183 191 232 233 247 294 Page 2 Offered 193 193 193 193 WATER PCB-SD0000013174 MAYASKY 11 Ni ne 303 12 13 No other exhibits were marked for 14 identification, offered or attached as exhibits hereto. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 4 1 STIPULATIONS 2 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by the 3 parties, through their respective counsel, 4 that the deposition of JACK MAYAUSKY, may be 5 taken before Deborah Salers Garrett, CSR, RPR, 6 as Commissioner and Notary Public, Alabama at 7 Large, at Anniston, Alabama, on April 7, 1998, 8 at 10:15 a.m. 9 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED that the 10 signature to and reading of the deposition by 11 the witness is waived, the deposition to have 12 the same force and effect as if full 13 compliance were had with all laws and rules of 14 Court relating to the taking of depositions. 15 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED that it 16 shall not be necessary for any objections to Page 3 WATER PCB-SD0000013175 MAYASKY 17 be made by counsel to any questions except as 18 to form or leading questions and that counsel 19 may make objections and assign grounds at the 20 time of trial or at the time said deposition 21 is offered in evidence or prior thereto. 22 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED that notice 23 of filing by the Commissioner is waived. 5 1 STATE OF ALABAMA, ANNISTON, APRIL 7, 1998 2 3 JACK MAYAUSKY, 4 after having been first duly sworn, was 5 examined and testified as follows: 6 7 BY MR. STEWART: 8 Q. Tell me your name, please, sir, if you 9 would. 10 A. Officially, it's John S. Mayausky, but I 11 go by Jack. 12 Q. John what? 13 A. S. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Mayausky. 16 Q. But you are known as Jack? 17 A. Jack, please. 18 Q. And where do you presently live? 19 A. In Longmeadow, Massachusetts, one word. 20 Q. And how long have you lived in 21 Longmeadow? 22 A. Since May of 1997. Page 4 WATER PCB-SD0000013176 23 Q. MAYASKY And is that the time you left Anniston, 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 Q. 6 in May of '97? Yes, sir. Okay. And for whom did you work when you left Anniston in May? I worked for Monsanto. And for whom do you work now? Solutia. Solutia? S-o-1-u-t-i-a. Now, tell me a little bit about Solutia. Is that a spinoff company - Yes, sir. -- from Monsanto? It was a spinoff from Monsanto which occurred on September 1st, 1997. Okay. And what basically does Solutia manufacture, what kind of products? Solutia is basically the chemical operations of prior -- former Monsanto. So basically the same product lines that were produced when we were a part of Monsanto. Okay. Now, when Solutia was spun off, 7 1 did they assume the responsibility for, 2 say, the operations that had previously Page 5 WATER PCB-SD0000013177 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 MAYASKY been run by Monsanto, such as the Anniston plant here? Yes, sir. Do you know how that transfer or swap took place? Are you familiar with it? I'm not familiar with the details, Donald. No, I'm not. What about the liabilities, such as the present liability here? I was told and I read in the annual report, as a shareholder, that Solutia assumed the liabilities. When you say Solutia assumed the liabilities, all the liabilities of Monsanto? For those operations which they took with them, yes. In other words, if there was a problem which was presently existing, legally or otherwise, at the Anniston plant, then they agreed to take that responsibility? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 It was my understanding. Solutia did? Yes. And I'd like to add I only know that from reading the spinoff report. The annual report? Who at the company, if you would venture a guess, would we ask who could tell us what that circumstance was or Page 6 WATER PCB-SD0000013178 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY the circumstances surrounding that? I would direct you to somebody in our attorney's or legal department. Well, who as an officer would know? The officer, I would assume, probably best to talk to is Mike Pearly. And who is Mr. Pearly? He is vice president of environmental safety and health. MR. STEWART: off the record. (Discussion held off record.) But Mr. Pearly wouldbe aware and familiar with - I believe so. Ibelieve that would be correct. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. Is there any indemnification that would be made or participation that would be made by Monsanto in any potential liabilities that might exist that you know of that was reflected in the annual report? In other words, did Solutia assume the responsibility up to a certain level and then after that it would be - I don't know, sir. I'm sorry. I don't know. Okay. Would Mr. Pearly know that? I would assume he would. I'll come back to that in a minute. Page 7 WATER PCB-SD0000013179 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 MAYASKY Let' s go on to some of these biographical things. Do you have any relatives, Mr. Mayausky, in the Anniston area? One distant cousin that I discovered wheni I lived here. Who is that? And her name is Bonnie Harris,. And I'm not even sure if she is still here since 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 10 I moved. Where did Ms. Harris live, if you know, at the time? Near the high school. I can't recall the name of that street. Woodstock, that ran in front of the high school. And do you know what her age was? Late thirties. And do you know what she did, what kind of work, kind of employment? I do not recall. I'm sorry. How did you become acquainted with her; do you know? She was -- It was serendipity that I was back home for a funeral back where I was born and raised and was talking with her mother and chatting about where I lived. She said, "Oh, my daughter'smoved there." Is she married? Page 8 WATER PCB-SD0000013180 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. She is divorced. MAYASKY Was her husband in this area? Not that I know of. 1 Q2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 11 Did she have any children? She had a daughter, thirteen-year-old daughter. And did she go to the -- go to school here, the daughter? Yeah. I believe she went to one of the Christian schools over on the other side of the mountain. Faith, I believe. Do you know the name of the daughter? No. I don't recall, sir. Any other children? None I'm aware of. When you lived in Anniston, where did you live? I lived on Hi1 Iyer High. And how long did you -- When did you first come here? August of 1994. And while you were here, while we are on this particular subject, what clubs did you belong to? Social clubs, the Rotary -- the noon Rotary, the Anniston Country Club. 1 Q- Okay. Page 9 12 WATER PCB-SD0000013181 MAYASKY And that's really about it. Okay. Did you go to church at First Methodist? Yes, I did. And did you participate in the Chamber of Commerce? Yes, I did, on some subcommittees. Did you hold any positions in any of these organizations? No officer positions, no. With whom did you socialize while you were here? Can you tell me some of your close friends that you - The Newmans, Dottie and Mike Newman; a lot of activities with our children, in associations they had. I have reached an age I don't remember names real well. I apologize. The veterinarian on the main Quintard Drive. Anybody else? Mostly people I worked with, associated with at work. A regular golfing partner 13 of mine was Ken Dill from Alabama Power. Did y'all play in some foursome? Generally we would play just a twosome. The other name I would offer up was Chris Wright. I played with him until he left. He was the director of the museum. Page 10 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY When you moved here to Anniston, were you -- Well, before I leave that, any other clubs or activities or positions you held while you were - I was a board director of the United Cerebral Palsy Center. I was on the board of the United Way. Various school committees focusing on school systems, three or four of those, mainly with the Anniston City School. And I was on a committee appointed by the local legislative delegation to look at museums in the greater Calhoun County area. Who was on the delegation when that happened? 1 A. 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 Larry Sims, Doug Ghee, Barbara Boyd, the legislator from the north part -- up near Piedmont. His name escapes me right now. Gerald Willis? Gerald Willis. Thank you. Mike Rogers. Who was it out of the delegation that picked you to serve? Doug Ghee. Okay. Were you social acquaintances with him? Not really, no. Did you deal with him about matters that Page 11 WATER PCB-SD0000013183 14 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY might have pertained to Monsanto when you dealt with the legislative delegation? Would you generally go to Doug? I would talk to Doug about some issues, yeah. What issues would you talk to him about? He and I talked about the issues around the plant withPCBs. Ikept him apprised ofwhat wasgoingon there. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 19 15 How often did you do that? I can remember one lunch meeting and a phone call at least to talk specifically about that. Okay. When did the lunch meeting take place? It was early on. That was shortly after I got here, early '95. Who initiated that meeting? I called him up and wanted to get to know him, being new to the area. And I called him up, and we had a lunch meeting. I remember it was down at the place down in Oxford. When you say place down in Oxford, a restaurant in Oxford? Yeah, a restaurant in Oxford. We talked about that. He also - He asked me to speak with Pete Conroy Page 12 WATER PCB-SD0000013184 MAYASKY 20 about it. I guess he knew Pete was 21 aware of these kinds of issues. At that 22 time, that's when he asked me about 23 being on the legislative committee to 16 1 look at the museums. He was looking for 2 a person to do that. That's about most 3 of what I remember about it. 4 When you spoke to Doug Ghee on that 5 date, what did you tell him about PCBs? 6 I remember telling him that we had -- we 7 had -- At that time -- Again, the timing 8 of the meeting was iffy, but we had made 9 a discovery of finding some in water, 10 and we were trying -- in surface water 11 -- and we were trying to figure out 12 where it came from and talked to him 13 about working with the state to reach 14 the closure of the west end landfill. 15 That was mainly the things I 16 remember us talking about. That's when 17 he said, "Talk to Pete. Pete's aware of 18 these kinds of issues." 19 So you talked to him about finding it in 20 surface water, PCBs? 21 Right. And we were trying to understand 22 it. We were going to be doing more 23 sampling. We didn't know exactly at Page 13 WATER PCB-SD0000013185 MAYASKY 17 1 that time where it was going to go, but 2 we were trying to figure it out. And 3 then we also talked about the west end 4 landfill, because it seems to me he had 5 been aware of the west end landfill 6 before I came on board. And you know, 7 with the reacquiring land from Alabama 8 Power and getting the closure of that, 9 he was aware of the issues around that 10 landfill. 11 When you say closure, what do you mean 12 by that? What are you talking about? 13 The closure was part -- It was a plan 14 worked out with the Alabama Department 15 of Environmental Management to cap the 16 landfill. 17 And were you seeking Doug Ghee's 18 assistance to help get that done? Is 19 that what you were asking him to do? 20 No. I think my approach, again -- I was 21 new to the area and wanted to get to 22 know him and always just to keep him 23 apprised. I think maybe during a 18 1 transition from Bill Difur, the prior 2 plant manager, he mentioned that Doug 3 was aware of those issues and I should 4 keep him apprised. I was just following 5 up on that. Page 14 WATER PCB-SD0000013186 MAYASKY 6 At any point in time did you talk about 7 Monsanto becoming a part of the city? 8 No. But we did have conversations about 9 that later. 10 Well, what were those? 11 It was after a meeting of this 12 legislative delegation, the same one I 13 talked about looking at museums. Our 14 proposal was -- We had the legislative 15 delegation come in, and we made our 16 proposal to them. And our proposal was 17 more or less to do a combined 18 advertising of all the museums there 19 were in this area. And at that time we 20 were trying to solicit their support to 21 help us with that. 22 MR. PECK: I think you are 23 answering a different 19 1 question. 2 THE WITNESS: I'm getting to it. 3 I'm giving the context of the 4 meeting. 5 At the end of that meeting, Doug pulled 6 me aside, as we were having coffee and 7 chatting, and he said, "I would like to 8 talk with you about the possible 9 annexation of your property from the 10 City of Anniston. Anniston would like 11 to annex the plant." Page 15 WATER PCB-SD0000013187 MAYASKY 12 I had had a conversation with Tom 13 Wright shortly after I got there. 14 Again, it was just that I went down to 15 meet Tom, to get to know him. And Tom 16 had mentioned to me they were interested 17 in annexing us. I mentioned to Doug 18 that I had spoken with Tom, but I didn't 19 understand what annexation meant. I 20 didn't know what it would mean to the 21 company, that I would go back and work 22 with Tom Wright about that. And that's 23 pretty much where that particular 20 1 conversation went. He said, "Well, 2 you need" -- He encouraged me to go talk 3 with Tom Wright. 4 Did you go talk to Tom Wright? 5 No. What actually happened, I found out 6 that we were annexed when an article 7 appeared in the newspaper announcing the 8 annexation plans that were approved by 9 the legislative delegation. And I never 10 closed -- never had the opportunity to 11 close the loop with Tom Wright about 12 what annexation meant. 13 Did you later have conversations with 14 the city about the annexation? 15 Yes. Then I went back and talked with 16 Tom Wright and also initiated an 17 understanding within our plant of what Page 16 WATER PCB-SD0000013188 MAYASKY 18 did it mean. And what we quantified it 19 to mean was it meant somewhere in the 20 neighborhood of fifty thousand to one 21 hundred thousand dollars per year in 22 extra expenses because of the higher tax 23 rate being incorporated in the city. 21 1 So the conversation with Tom 2 Wright of basically trying to understand 3 what annexation meant to us, what city 4 services would we get, what other things 5 could we expect to have by being 6 annexed. And also, quite frankly, I was 7 concerned that this happened before I 8 had a chance to talk with him about it. 9 I wanted to understand how does 10 somebody, even if it's an industrial 11 property owner, get annexed without 12 really being consulted about annexation. 13 Did y'all have any conversations at that 14 time or even later about some things 15 that y'all were going to do about 16 remediation - 17 We -18 -- with the city? 19 Tom Wright would be one person we would 20 keep apprised of what we were doing with 21 our efforts of remediation, he and the 22 city engineer, Johnson. 23 Dale Garrett? Page 17 WATER PCB-SD0000013189 MAYASKY 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 22 No. Charlie Johnson? Charlie Johnson. Thank you. We would meet with them periodically and tell them what our plans were. Where did you meet with them? The particular meeting about annexation, I met in a conference room outside of Tom Wright's office. And if you remember, that is when they restructured, and Tom was not actually city manager at that time. He was in a different role. That was after the restructuring. I believe Charlie Johnson might have been at that meeting al so. Why was Charlie Johnson there? I think at Tom's request, that I went down to meet with Tom, and he said, "Well, we need to get Charlie involved in this." So Charlie was there. Why would Charlie be involved in the meeting about annexation? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 23 I don't know. Did he make any contribution to the meeting at all? We were looking at some property lines Page 18 WATER PCB-SD0000013190 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY of where the old city line was and where the new city line would be. And I think he rounded those prints up. You said you had some subsequent meetings with city officials and kept them apprised of the remediation efforts. Who was it that you met with? Personally I met with -- I remember talking with Tom Wright and Charlie Johnson. How many times did you talk to him? MR. PECK: On remediation? MR. STEWART: Yeah. Once, that I specifically recall. There may have been more. Tell me, if you would, when that meeting took place. The best I can do is probably springtime of '95. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 24 What was the purpose of the meeting? Again, at that time we were just updating people on the west end landfill, what we were planning on doing with that, and then any further sampling we might be doing, to try to understand the water findings we had of PCBs. Tell me, if you would, what was the substance of what you said to Mr. Wright and Mr. Johnson. Page 19 WATER PCB-SD0000013191 MAYASKY 11 I remember taking a photograph of the 12 plant, an aerial photograph of the 13 plant, and showing them where the west 14 end landfill was and describing to him 15 what the cap would look like -- at least 16 my understanding that it would be a clay 17 cap, a synthetic liner, and then a 18 further clay cap and that it would be 19 bermed -- and talking them through some 20 idea of what that would look like and 21 then showing him some of the drainage 22 ditches that came off the west end 23 landfill and some of the drainage 25 1 ditches that came off the south end 2 landfill and talking with him about 3 that. 4 MR. PECK: Was it just Tom Wright 5 at this meeting? 6 THE WITNESS: I don't recall. It 7 may have been just Tom, 8 because he was city manager 9 at that time. 10 MR. PECK: I just asked that 11 because Mr. Stewart's 12 question suggested somebody 13 else was there. 14 I thought you had previously indicated 15 at this second meeting - 16 At the second meeting I remember Charlie Page 20 WATER PCB-SD0000013192 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY Johnson being there, and that was specifically about the annexation issues. But the first meeting that you had before the annexation meeting, it was just Tom Wright? Yes, as far as I recall. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 22 26 Did he initiate that meeting, or did you? I did. Is that all you told him, just about the west end landfill? I think so. I think at that point in time I may have talked about the fact that we had had the findings in water and we were going to do further sampling to try to understand that. You keep saying findings in water. What do you mean by that? What findings were there? We found -- We tested some ditch water off the west end landfill and off the south landfill and found PCBs in the water. Do you remember what the findings showed, what levels they showed? Less than ten parts per billion. I remember a number of six parts per bill ion. Page 21 WATER PCB-SD0000013193 23 Q. MAYASKY Well, when did you do that testing, now? 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 A. 27 My recollection was early -- late winter or early spring of 1995, February time frame. And that's what you were talking to - Yes. -- Tom Wright about? And again, I think the meeting was springish, springtime. Of '95? Yeah. I can't nail it any better than that. Did you tell him at that point in time, Mr. Mayausky, about any other testing that y'all had done? Not that I recall, sir. So - I may have suggested that we were going to do further testing, but - No. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about did you tell him at that point in time that y'all had done other testing and give him those test results? No, sir. 1 Q2 28 So I'm to understand that what you did was you talked with Mr. Wright at that Page 22 WATER PCB-SD0000013194 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY point in time, in the spring of '95, about the capping of the west end landfill and some findings that you are stating here to us today y'all found in surface water? Uh-huh (indicating yes). And that was about six parts per billion? Uh-huh (indicating yes). And can you remember where that was found? The six, the best of my recollection, was off the south landfill, somewhere sampled one of the ditches coming off what's known as the south landfill. Am I to understand that in 1995 the only testing that y'all had done as of February or March or, you know, early spring of 1995 was just surface water sampling? MR. PECK: Object to the form of 29 1 the question. 2 You know, I can't -- I really can't 3 recall if we had done soil sampling or 4 sediment sampling at that point in time. 5 But as a practical matter, the only 6 thing you talked to Mr. Wright about was 7 the surface water sampling? 8 To the best of my recollection. Page 23 WATER PCB-SD0000013195 MAYASKY 9 Wouldn't you think it would be important 10 for you as the plant manager here at 11 Monsanto to talk to him about all you 12 had done? 13 I don't recall at that point in time 14 whether we had done the sediment 15 sampling or not. 16 No, sir. I'm not asking you that 17 question. I've changed my question. 18 MR. PECK: I think you are asking 19 that question. 20 MR. STEWART: Well, let me 21 clarify. And then if you 22 want to make an objection, 23 Adam, make one. if you want 30 1 to take him outside and talk 2 to him, do that. 3 MR. PECK: I don't want to take 4 him outside and talk to him. 5 MR. STEWART: Well, just make an 6 objection. 7 MR. PECK: I want him to be able 8 to answer the question you 9 asked. 10 MR. STEWART: Just make an 11 objection. 12 MR. PECK: Let him answer the 13 question you asked, if you 14 don't like it, you can ask Page 24 WATER PCB-SD0000013196 MAYASKY 15 him another question. 16 MR. STEWART: Well, if we have to 17 fix it up so both you and 18 Mr. Mayausky understand it, 19 like we did last time, we 20 might be here for a long 21 period of time. We won't get 22 through with the deposition. 23 MR. PECK: I don't recall what you 31 1 are talking about. 2 MR. STEWART: Well, I'm just 3 trying to ask the witness a 4 question. 5 MR. STEWART: I am just asking the 6 witness a question, if you 7 want to make an objection, 8 make one. 9 MR. PECK: And I want you to let 10 him answer your questions. 11 MR. STEWART: Well, if you want to 12 tell him what to say and you 13 want to consult with him - 14 MR. PECK: I haven't even 15 suggested an answer. All I'm 16 asking is you let him answer 17 the questions like lawyers 18 are supposed to let witnesses 19 answer questions. That's 20 all . Page 25 WATER PCB-SD0000013197 MAYASKY 21 Mr. Mayausky, what I was asking you is 22 wouldn't you think it would be important 23 for you as the plant manager of Monsanto 32 1 to let Mr. Wright know all of the tests 2 that you had taken in addition to these 3 water tests? 4 Well, those results were -- if we had 5 results. And I'm saying I don't know at 6 that time whether we had done 7 sedimentation sampling. I'm trying to 8 put the sequence correctly in my mind. 9 Those results would have gone to ADEM. 10 I was trying to apprise Mr. Wright 11 of current plan for the west end 12 landfill, some findings we saw, and, if 13 I remember correctly, that we were going 14 to be doing more sampling. I don't 15 remember if we had results or not. 16 I understand. But let me make my 17 question as clear as a bell to you. 18 I'll try. Maybe I'm just phrasing it 19 wrong. Adam may have been right. 20 But had you done soil sampling or 21 sediment sampling at that time, would 22 you not think that you as the plant 23 manager here at Monsanto had a 33 1 responsibility, when you sat down and Page 26 WATER PCB-SD0000013198 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 MAYASKY talked with the city manager of the City of Anniston, to tell him about that? I think I have a responsibility to tell him that we have reported those results to ADEM andwe are working with ADEM and if he needs anything further, he should talk to ADEM about those results. I must tell him that. But you don't - I remember telling him that we were working with ADEM on all of our plans. But you don't take the position here today that y'all have a responsibility to talk to someone like Mr. Wright, who is the city manager, or the mayor and let them know what y'all have found out there at Monsanto in the sediment or the soil? I thought I was doing that by telling him we found results and that we were working with ADEM to try to figure out what to do about it. 34 1 Did you talk to any other officials 2 other than Mr. Wright? Did you ever 3 talk to the city council and tell them 4 what y'all had found either in the 5 surface or in any other tests that you 6 did? 7 No, sir. Page 27 WATER PCB-SD0000013199 MAYASKY Did you talk to county officials? Eli Henderson came to visit the plant one time. When did Eli Henderson come visit the pi ant? Again, I remember it being springtime '95. Tell us what you talked to Mr. Henderson about in the springtime of '95. Essentially the same sort of thing, telling him about the activities we had planned for the west end landfill, that we were sampling, trying to understand where we were with the PCBs we found in water; we would be doing more sampling; I'm not sure of where it was going to 35 lead, working with ADEM in all the plans, and if he had any further questions, to feel free to contact me. Did you tell Mr. Eli Henderson at that time about anything other than the surface water tests that y'all had performed? I honestly do not recall telling him. Not to say I didn't, but I don't recall telling him. Am I to understand your answer to be that you just told him about the surface water sampling? Page 28 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. I'm saying I don't recall. You don't recall what you told him? No, no. I asked him to come to the plant just to meet about the west end landfill and working with ADEM and trying to understand this problem. I don't recall telling him that we had done any other sampling or any other 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 36 results at that time. I just don't recal1. All right. Did you ever talk to anybody in the legislative delegation other than Doug Ghee? Yes. I had -- Larry Sims came to visit the plant. Okay. When did Mr. Sims come to visit the plant? Again, my recollection being the spring. I tried to do these sort of meetings when -- as we were rolling out the work on the west end landfill and doing the sampling. Mr. Sims came to the plant, and Dr. Barbara Boyd came to the plant. And what did you tell them? Essentially the same thing. I recall telling them essentially the same thing, as I've said, we are going to begin the Page 29 WATER PCB-SD0000013201 MAYASKY 20 work on the west end landfill, telling 21 them we are capping that, working with 22 ADEM on an approved plan, that we had 23 this finding of water and that we were 37 1 going to be doing more sampling, trying 2 to understand that, and again working 3 with ADEM on that, getting to know them 4 -- I mean, I'm new to the area - 5 getting to know them and giving me as a 6 contact if they have any questions, or 7 if any of their constituents have 8 questions, to have them call me or they 9 can filter the questions and have them 10 call me, one way or the other. 11 Mr. Mayausky, at any point in time did 12 you tell Mr. Wright, Mr. Henderson, or 13 Mr. Wright and Charlie Johnson, Doug 14 Ghee, Barbara Boyd, Larry Sims, any of 15 those people that you have mentioned you 16 talked to, anything at all about PCBs? 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 18 the question. 19 Well, we talked about PCBs. I mean, 20 that is what we found in the water. 21 What did you tell them about PCBs? 22 Told them we found it in water and that 23 it was a chemical that we used to Page 30 WATER PCB-SD0000013202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY 38 produce at the plant several years ago, back in the '70s, and that we were trying to understand how we found this water. We were at that time very unclear of where it came from, that we had plans, working with ADEM, trying to understand it and to sample; and then if we needed to do any remediation, to do any remediation we had to do on it, working with ADEM. And that is what you told them about PCBs? You just mentioned that it was a chemical that you had previously manufactured at the plant? Yes, yes. Now, did you ever say at any point in time during your conversations with any of these officials, Tom or any of them, that anybody else was responsible for the problem out there other than Monsanto? No. Did you ever indicate to them that there 1 2 3 4 5 A. 39 was a third party who should be brought into any conversationsthat you might have had with thosepeople about this particular problem? No, sir. Page 31 WATER PCB-SD0000013203 MAYASKY 6 Did you indicate to them that Monsanto 7 was assuming the responsibility for what 8 damage had been done because of the 9 contamination coming off your property 10 and onto - 11 We told them we were working with ADEM, 12 trying to understand it, and that we 13 would work with ADEM and whatever 14 guidance they gave us, to assume 15 responsibility for it. 16 Monsanto would assume the responsibility 17 for it? 18 To do as ADEM directed us to do, yes, 19 sir. 20 Was there any doubt in your mind that 21 the PCBs came from anywhere other than 22 your landfill, even west of the southern 23 landfill? 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 40 I can't say for certain it came from the landfill. Where would you say it came from? I don't know. To this day I can't say for certain it came from the landfill. It's there. We manufactured PCBs. I assume that it must have come somewhere from our operations. Are you saying in answering the question in that fashion that itpossibly came from someplace other than thesesolid Page 32 WATER PCB-SD0000013204 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY waste management units that y'all have buried waste in? I'm just saying with absolute one hundred percent certainty I can't say that it did, but it's likely that it did. Can you tell me, Mr. Mayausky, if y'all have got PCBs buried anywhere other than in the landfill? Not that I'm aware of. Okay. Give me some idea, Mr. Mayausky, of your educational background. 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 41 I have a BS in chemistry from the University of Pittsburgh. When didyou get that? 1977. Okay. And I have a Ph.D. in analytical chemistry from Ohio State University, 1982. Did you specialize in any particular field when you went through and got your BS or your Ph.D.? As a doctoral student, my dissertation was on the reactions of a commonly used neurotransmitter -- antipsychotic agent known as chlorpromazine. And how is it that you went from that to working for Monsanto? What was your Page 33 WATER PCB-SD0000013205 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY first job experience? I wanted to work for a drug company. But when I came out of school , drug companies were not hiring. So I had interviewed with general industrial chemical companies. And then Monsanto 1 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. 42 offered me a position, and I accepted. And where was that position? Where did you first go to - Pensacola, Florida. What did you do in Pensacola, Florida for Monsanto? I was a bench chemist, a bench chemist working both on quality assurance and research -- documenting research work by some of the people who were doing fundamental research on the products that were produced there. And that was in 1982? Yes, sir. What products in particular did you work with? Mainly the chemical products that were produced at Pensacola, adipic acid and maleic anhydride, m-a-l-e-i-c, anhydride, a-n-h-y-d-r-i-d-e. And who did you work with there? Who was your immediate supervisor? A gentleman by the name of Larry Smith. Page 34 WATER PCB-SD0000013206 MAYASKY 1 Q2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 43 What else did you do there, anything? Some what's known as methods development, working on new analytical methods to be applied. That was part of the quality work. When you produce products, you want to check their quality, so I worked on developing new analytical methods that were faster and more efficient, better able to detect. Detect what, whether or not the product was what you expected it to be, the quality of it? Right. Comparing it to quality standards, yes. Did you develop some analytical standards or new type things yourself? When I was there, there was an emerging field in chromatography, which is a technique. There was an emerging growth of what's known as capillary chromatography. So I spent a great deal of my time switching over some of our 1 2 3 4 Q. 44 chromatography from the pack, what is known as pack column, to this capillary column technology. Now, did you work with any products Page 35 WATER PCB-SD0000013207 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY other than those you have mentioned while you were there in Pensacola? There is a laundry list of them, hexamethylene diamine, h-e-x-a, methylene, 1-e-n-e, diamine. What was that? The one I referred to early, adipic acid, and hexamethylene diamine are combined together to make a product called nylon salt. Nylon salt is the feed stock that goes to producing nylon. It's the raw material for nylon. That's the main product coming out of Pensacola, was nylon for carpeting, tires, seat belts, parachutes, things like that. Did you ever work while you were at Pensacola with anything that was like PCBs or -- 1 A. 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 45 No, sir. -- polybiphenyls or anything like that, biphenyls? No, sir, not at Pensacola. All right. Did you receive any promotions -- How long did you stay there? I was in Pensacola for ten years. And you left there, then, in 1992? Yes, sir. Page 36 WATER PCB-SD0000013208 MAYASKY And where did you go after you left Pensacola in 1992? I went to another Monsanto plant in Nitro, West Virginia, N-i-t-r-o, West Virginia. And did you receive any promotions -- I asked you, but I don't know whether I got an answer or not. Yes. -- while you were in Pensacola? Yes. I moved from a bench chemist to a quality assurance supervisor to a laboratory supervisor to a business unit 46 leader producing adipic acid and then eventually left there. Okay. When you went to the plant in Nitro, West Virginia, what did you go there as? A position known as general superintendent of hodgepodge. And I use that term lightly, because I had responsibilities for warehousing, traffic, distribution, quality assurance, and one small manufacturing operation. Like a middle level manager? Yeah. I reported to a plant manager. And what did they make at the Nitro plant in West Virginia? Page 37 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY They made accelerators, which are chemicals used in rubbers, rubber compounds for tires. They accelerated the vulcanization process. They also made a chicken feed supplement called santa -- I'm sorry -- alimet, a-l-i-m-e-t (sic). They also made 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 47 another product we had that was a vulcanization inhibitor. Which as the accelerators assured vulcanization, there was also a chemical that was added that if you didn't want the vulcanization to go too far, you wanted a soft rubber, we made a compound that was used for that. Mainly rubber chemicals. What was the product that you participated in supervising the manufacturing of? The vulcanization inhibitor. Did you -- How long did you stay there, until '94? Until '94, yes, sir. Did you receive any promotions while you were there at the West Virginia plant? No, sir. Did you receive any training at all, outside of, say, your formal educational training, after you went with Monsanto Page 38 WATER PCB-SD0000013210 MAYASKY 23 in 1982, any seminars or 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 48 Quality training, management training techniques. Those come to mind, yes, sir. Okay. Were you a part of the company when a Mr. Mahoney was involved as the CEO of the corporation? Yes, sir. Dick Mahoney, yes, sir. Are you familiar with or did you become familiar with a -- what was known in the industry as the Monsanto -- I'm trying to think of the exact terminology - Pledge - Yes, sir. -- as it relates to the environment? Yes, sir. Tell us, if you would, Mr. Mayausky, how you became familiar with that particular - It was a pledge that was signed off on by Monsanto to reduce its emissions by X percent -- I honestly don't remember the exact percentage -- by 1997, I think was the target date they were shooting for. 1 Q. 2 49 Do you remember when that particular pledge was signed and put into effect? Page 39 WATER PCB-SD0000013211 MAYASKY Early '90s. It may have been late '80s. I don't recall the exact date. And how is it that you became aware of the Monsanto Pledge? Did you have -- As a superintendent at the plant in West Virginia, were you given any kind of special training on that particular pi edge? No, not that I recall. Did you have any seminars just as an employee? No. It was communicated through electronic mail or company mailings. And I did not receive any special training on it that I recall. Did you receive a copy of that, though, as a superintendent or the position that you held either in Pensacola or in West Virginia? When is it that you recall, if you do - I believe it was Pensacola. 50 In Pensacola? Yeah. I believe it was. Were there any discussions that took place at the Pensacola plant in connection with that particular pledge that Mr. Mahoney had made? No, sir. Were there any? I don't know. Did I attend any? No, I don't remember MAYASKY 9 attending any. 10 So did you understand this to obligate 11 you as an official or a manager of 12 Monsanto to adhere to what Mr. Mahoney 13 had to say? 14 I understood that, and I looked to our 15 environmental department at Pensacola to 16 give us guidance on what we needed to do 17 to meet the pledge. 18 Okay. And tell us, if you would, what 19 you did, if anything, at Pensacola or 20 what you did, if anything, at West 21 Virginia to meet the pledge. 22 I remember one project that I was 23 involved with in Pensacola where we put 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 13 14 51 in a compressor to collect fugitive emissions off of our tank and take it over to a thermo-reduction unit. But that was part of -- to capture all of that and take it over to the unit where it would be reduced. And they were nox emissions, if you are familiar with those. No, I'm not. Nitrous oxide. Nitrous oxides are general nitrogen oxygen compounds that are sometimes made by the incomplete combustion of nitrogen. So what y'all chose to do at that Page 41 WATER PCB-SD0000013213 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY particular instance, in order to reduce that emission, was to take it, capture it, and then - Capture it off the tanks and off the vessels and take it over to a compressor and compress it and feed it to a reduction furnace we had, which was designed to complete that combustion and turn it into nitrogen, C02, and items 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 52 like that. So what y'all did was basically kept that particular substance from being emitted from the plant - Yes, sir. -- and turned it into an energy? We did use the energy. We had a steam boiler off of that reduction unit and made some steam, yes, sir. And did you see that as a part your responsibility as a middle level manager at that point in order to carry out your commitment to - My responsibility working with the engineers that worked for me was to ensure we obtained the capital to do that project, design the project, present it to upper manager, have that capital approved, and then see the unit through installation and start-up of Page 42 WATER PCB-SD0000013214 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY that modification unit. Now, did you ever understand that a part of the pledge that you all took as a 1 2 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 23 53 company -- and it was signed off on, I assume, by Mr. Mahoney in the late '80s or early '90s -- also included the involvement of the community - Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- that yousurrounded? Yes, sir. Or that surrounded your plant, rather? Yes, sir. Was the purpose of that, the involvement of those communities, the residents of those communities, to protect the health and welfare of those people who might be around your plant and subjected to the emissions that y'all were trying to reduce? No. I wouldn't agree that was the focus of it. The focus of it was to provide information to the public about the operations of the plants, to understand what we made, to have dialogue with them, to understand, if there were emissions, what they were. 1 Q. Well, it wasn't just a big PR deal, Page 43 54 WATER PCB-SD0000013215 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY though. Y'all had a purpose in making an attempt to reduce the emissions, which was to protect the environment, which was in effect to protect those residents, wasn't it, that lived around your plants? Again, I didn't sign it. Mr. Mahoney signed it, but I assume that he was looking at reducing the overall emissions in the interest of the environment, yes, sir. And then in turn that environment, if it was free of those emissions, would be a better place for the residents that lived around your plant to live? Yes, sir. I agree with that statement. And wasn't a part of what y'all's effort was aimed towards then, Mr. Mayausky, and what Mr. Mahoney was aiming for and expected y'all to aim for, to make sure that you did those things that would in turn not only protect the environment 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 55 but the health and welfare of the people who lived around the plant? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question, calls for speculation. I would -- Again, I can only speculate. But my focus, the way I understood it, Page 44 WATER PCB-SD0000013216 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY was to establish open dialogue with the community, to get a representative group of the community to understand our operations and what we did, and for them to serve as a vehicle for us to communicate with the community. And ultimately resolve whatever problem might exist? if there was a problem. if there was a problem? if there was a problem, yes, sir, to get their input, and to be of help too. if they needed funding for civic type things, that may be a vehicle to do that. Since you've mentioned that -- Well, 1 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 12 13 56 I'll get to that in a minute. Okay. When you came to Anniston, what did you come to Anniston as? Plant manager. And how were you chosen as plant manager to come here, Mr. Mayausky? What selection criteria? What process took place that brought you here to Anniston? Who picked you? The corporation picked four candidates that might be successful people to serve as plant manager. All four candidates came down and were interviewed by teams Page 45 WATER PCB-SD0000013217 MAYASKY 14 of people from the plant, both hourly 15 and salary, including union officers. 16 They then -- if a consensus was reached 17 amongst that group of who the next 18 manager would be, that was it, it was 19 done, if there wasn't a consensus and 20 two candidates were found to be equal, 21 it went back to St. Louis for the 22 ultimate decision. I was one of the 23 four candidates interviewed by teams of 57 1 people from the plant, and I was 2 successfully selected. 3 So you didn't take that second step. 4 You just met with the people down here, 5 and they selected you? 6 Yeah. 7 Before you came down here, were you 8 briefed about the plant itself? 9 I was told of the products that were 10 made here, and I did some research on my 11 own to understand some of the people and 12 asked for -- I called down and talked to 13 -- At that time Bill Difur had already 14 left, and I had Dale Kline, who was 15 operating in his absence, to send me 16 some organization charts and basic 17 product literature, information about 18 the area, that sort of thing. 19 Tell me who briefed you on the products Page 46 WATER PCB-SD0000013218 20 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY that were produced here at the plant. Other than that reading that I had prior to coming here, once I was in place, then I would have tours and discussions 1 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 23 58 about the products with the operations people. Again, this is Dale Kline, who was the operations manager at the plant, and - Dale Kline? Yes, sir. How do you spell that last name? K-l-i-n-e. Is he still there? No. He has moved on. Where is he now? He is -- He lives in Oxford. But he is now a national sales representative for Monsanto, selling products. All right. At least I still believe he lives in Oxford. I haven't talked to Dale in a long time. How many other people did you talk to other than Mr. Kline? Some of the -- we call them front line supervisors, with the guys who are actually directly over the hourly Page 47 WATER PCB-SD0000013219 MAYASKY 59 personnel. And some names that come to mind are Andy Nelson, Sandy Smith. Those are two I remember taking me on tours and showing me the process. When you say showing you the process, you mean the manufacturing process - Yes, sir. -- that was going on at the plant at that time? Yes, sir. Had you ever been around a plant that manufactured the type of products that were being manufactured here at the local plant in Anniston? No, sir. And at the time that you came here, what product was the plant producing? The main product from the plant was a product called Therminol, which is a heat transfer agent. The other secondary product is para-nitrophenol which is a feed stock to acetaminophen, which we know as Tylenol. 60 Anything else? Those are really the main products coming out of the plant. There was a product called -- which the trade name is known as VPl, which was a mixture of 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 MAYASKY a product produced at our Chocolate Bayou plant in Texas -- called DPO, and then biphenyl. Biphenyl was the feed stock to Therminol. Tell me, if you would, did anybody brief you on that process other than these people who were involved in the manufacturing process? Well, I had conversations with engineers as I went along to try to understand what their roles were in supporting the products. But those are -- Nobody outside the plant I don't remember ever having conversations with about the products. Did - One another name that comes to mind is Jerry Brown. 61 1 What conversations did you have with 2 Mr. Brown? 3 Jerry Brown is just -- he's the 4 technology manager at the plant. He's 5 been there a long time. He really 6 understands the products. He really 7 helped me understand some of the uses of 8 Therminol, what it was being used for in 9 the industry, gave me some examples of 10 people buying it, what it was used for. 11 So that's basically what your role was Page 49 WATER PCB-SD0000013221 MAYASKY -- what your briefing was at the time you assumed the role of plant manager here? Yes, sir. Did anyone ever give you any information at all about the history of the plant? Jerry Brown, quite a bit, because he had been around, plus some of the other operators, the front line supervisors I talked about, had been around for a long time. Generally for us a front line supervisor is somebody who was in the 62 hourly ranks who promoted to the salary ranks, and they tended to be long-term employees. Did anybody tell you anything about the solid waste management units that were located on the plant property before you came down to Monsanto? Before I came down, no, sir. After you got to the Monsanto plant in Anniston, did anybody tell you about that? Yes. Then we discussed with Robert Jones, our environmental superintendent, some of our environmental systems. We talked about the west end landfill, the closure plan. Excuse me? Go ahead. I'm sorry. MAYASKY Just talked about the -- At that time he was working with ADEM to develop a plan to close the west end landfill. I believe you indicated, Mr. Mayausky, that you came here in '92, was it? No. '94, August of '94. 63 '94? Yes, sir. Okay. What did Mr. Brown tell you prompted the problem or created the problem for Monsanto at the west end landfill? And I don't recall if it was Mr. Brown who told me or Mr. Jones - I may have misspoken. I think you did say Jones. I apologize. What was conveyed to me was that the west end landfill - Go ahead. That the west end landfill was land that was used historically for a landfill by the plant in the '60s and '70s, was eventually deeded to Alabama Power to build a switchyard on, and that there was discovery of some tar material on the surface of that landfill, and the land was reacquired, I guess, from Alabama Power, and we were moving forward, trying to close it, cap it, as MAYASKY 64 1 it should be, with ADEM. 2 Now, did Mr. Jones tell you what the 3 chemical compound was that had been 4 buried in the west end landfill? 5 Just in general terms. And the records 6 were very poor. But some of the - 7 known as steel bottoms from the PCB 8 operations, some of the heavy ends from 9 the distillation operations were in 10 there, other things from the plant that 11 the plant produced over history. 12 What were those other things, 13 Mr. Mayausky? 14 I don't remember specific conversations 15 about what they were. I just remember 16 it was very difficult to ascertain 17 exactly what was in there, because it 18 had been used back in the '60s and '70s 19 and records were poor. 20 Are you telling me here today that you 21 have no idea what was buried in the west 22 end landfill other than the steel 23 bottoms from the distillation and steel 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 65 bottoms from PCB production? Yes, sir. And did you talk to Mr. Brown about what might have been buried there? Page 52 WATER PCB-SD0000013224 6 7 8 9 10 Q 11 A 12 Q 13 14 15 16 17 A 18 Q 19 20 21 22 A 23 MAYASKY Yes, sir. Basically I was given the same answer, that because of poor record keeping and that it was -- there was very little knowledge of exactly what was in there. It wasn't documented. So no one knew? No one knew. Did you know or have any idea or receive any information from Mr. Brown or Mr. Jones as to how much in terms of amounts of PCBs were buried in the west end landfill? No, sir. Did you find out or did they tell you what the readings were on the testing that was done in and around the -- Was it drainage ditches off the landfill? The water, yeah. That's when I found out that it was -- as I said earlier, 1 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 10 Q. 66 the findings in water were less than ten parts per billion. Who told you that? Mr. Jones. And how did he tell you that he knew that? Did y'all do the testing there yourself, or did you hire somebody to - We used a contract laboratory, if I remember, it was Garrity and Miller. So Mr. Jones' statement to you is that Page 53 WATER PCB-SD0000013225 MAYASKY 11 all the testing that was done in 12 connection with the PCB problem that 13 came about through the Alabama Power 14 Company thing showed that there were 15 findings of ten -- less than ten parts 16 per billion in the surface water? 17 Yes, sir. 18 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 19 the question. 20 And that was it? That is what he told 21 you as the plant manager? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 23 the question. 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 67 And he told me about the finding of a tar material that Alabama Power discovered. And I believe Alabama Power analyzed thatand found that it contained PCBs. Did he tell you what that reading was? He told me it was at percent levels in the tar, as an element -- part of the tar that was found was a percent level of PCBs. Well, just assume I'm sort of a dumb lay person and don't know anything about that. Was the finding that he told you about that had been discovered by the Alabama Power Company a higher level of contaminationthan whatyou have Page 54 WATER PCB-SD0000013226 17 18 19 A. 20 21 Q22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY indicated to us you all found in the water? Water levels were parts per billion, and the tar was percentile. Yes, sir. So it was higher? Yes, sir. Well , did he tell you how much of that 1 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Q. 68 was found, or did you ever know how much of that was found? No. Just that some was found and that it was analyzed. Mr. Mayausky, I'm not trying to belabor this point, but in view of the pledge that you have previously talked to us about that Mr. Mahoney made in the late '80s and early '90s, you as plant manager had a responsibility, didn't you, to find out a little bit more than you have told us you discovered from either Jerry Brown or Mr. Jones? I had a responsibility to report it to ADEM and work with ADEM on what we were going to do about it, yes, sir. To report what to ADEM? That we had found these tars, we had found some in water, and to work with them on what we were going to do about it. We'll get to that in just a minute. But Page 55 WATER PCB-SD0000013227 MAYASKY would it not be important for you as 69 plant manager, Mr. Mayausky, to know exactly what was buried there - No, sir. -- and the amount? Because again, I have to turn it over to the environmental and working with ADEM -- and work with them to develop a plan on what we are going to do about it. But isn't the long-term situation, Mr. Mayausky, as far as your responsibilities are concerned as the plant manager -- Doesn't the buck stop at your desk? Aren't you held accountable by St. Louis for what happens here, whether it's done by the technologist, Mr. Brown, or the environmental person - And it did. And we went straight to ADEM and talked to ADEM about it. But my question was isn't it your responsibility to be on top of things as well as this environmental person since you're the person who is ultimately held 70 accountable? And I was. And we went directly to ADEM 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY and talked to ADEM about what we found and worked with them to try to figure out how we were going to manage it. So you actually went to ADEM with Mr. Brown or Mr. Jones or a combination of those people or other people and talked to them about what you were going to do about the west end landfill? Eventually, yes. During the transfer, yes. During my transition period, Robert was doing a lot of those direct conversations, but I did make trips down to ADEM to talk to them about the situation. Tell me, if you would, Mr. Mayausky, when is the first time you personally went to Montgomery and talked to the people of ADEM. I remember spring of '95. So in the spring of 1995 is the first trip you made down to ADEM - 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 71 That's what I recall. -- and you came here in August of '94? That's what I recall. It may have been winter, but I don't recall exactly. It may have been winter of - Of '94. Of '94? Yeah. Page 57 WATER PCB-SD0000013229 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY Had Mr. Jones been making trips, as you have indicated, before that time? Yes, sir. And was that related to the west end landfill? Yes, sir. And that particular problem solely? No. We also reported to them the water findings we had. Now, the water findings were not only around the west end landfill, but they were also around the south landfill? Yes, sir. And had you engaged in 1994 Garrity and Miller to take the tests both at the 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 72 west end landfill and also at the south? I think it was Garrity and Miller we were using at that time, yes, sir. Can you tell us, Mr. Mayausky, with some specificity, where you understood those tests were made or done at the west end landfill by Garrity and Miller? They were on the surface of the landfill and then also in the water, the ditch that ran off the landfill. All right. Now, when you say the water in the ditch that ran off the landfill, can you tell us where that ditch went to? Page 58 WATER PCB-SD0000013230 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY To my recollection, it went down along what would be immediately west of that landfill, curved down along the set of railroad tracks that were on the north side of the plant, eventually wound along that railroad track, crossed under the railroad track about -- before Clydesdale, and then ran again along the railroad track to eventually go down to 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 73 Snow Creek. So you understood in 1994, when you came here, whether you went to ADEM or not, that you had a problem from that landfill with some contaminant -- And would that be PCBs? Yes, sir. -- that was coming out of the landfill and going down that ditch that you've just described ultimately into Snow Creek? MR. PECK: Object to form of the question. At that time, in early 1994, all we knew was we had the tar finding on the landfill and found some in water and we needed to do sampling to figure out where it was coming from. Let me see, now. I'm from Munford, not a big city south of here. But I thought Page 59 WATER PCB-SD0000013231 MAYASKY you just got through telling me, Mr. Mayausky, that what you all had discovered was a tar-like substance on 74 the landfill, which I believe you told us the power company found, that had a percentile -- or a percentage of it was PCBs? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Which is a pretty highly contaminated product, wouldn't you agree? Yes. Are you saying yes? I would say it is tar material containing percentile levels of PCBs. Which is pretty highly contaminated? MR. PECK: Object to the form. I can't speculate what you mean by that. There was surface water running off that landfill into the ditch - Correct. -- and it was going ultimately into Snow Creek; is that right? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. There was surface water that came off of that landfill that eventually went to Snow Creek. That's correct. Page 60 75 2Q 3 4A 5 6 7Q 8 9 10 11 12 13 A 14 Q 15 16 17 A 18 Q 19 A 20 21 Q 22 23 MAYASKY And so the PCBs were coming from your landfill and contaminating the water? I can't draw that conclusion. I don't know. We needed to sample to understand that. Tell me, if you would, what intervening set of circumstances or institutions or anything else of land or facility was there between that landfill and that tarry substance that you found in the ditch. There wasn't any, was there? There wasn't any. So would it be logical to assume that the PCB contamination in the ditch would have come from Monsanto's landfill? It's likely, yes. And that's what y'all assumed, isn't it? That's what we started to analyze for, yes, sir. Now, you were talking at this point in time, were you not, Mr. Mayausky, to Jerry Brown? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 76 Uh-huh (indicating yes). Who had been here for, what, some twenty years at that time? At least. Maybe more? Maybe more. And he had held Mr. Jones' position Page 61 WATER PCB-SD0000013233 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY before that time? Yes, sir. Did you ask him anything about the history of this problem that you found when you came here to the Anniston plant? We talked about what the landfill was used for. And it was used, as I said, during the '60s and '70s as a general plant landfill. Did Mr. Brown tell you anything in any of those conversations that you had with him, Mr. Mayausky, about any testing that had been done of the tributary known as Snow Creek by your company before the summer and fall and winter of 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 77 1994? MR. PECK: At this time or any time in his life? MR. STEWART: During that conversation he had with him. We discussed - I'm referring to the time in '94 when y'all discovered this problem that you had. Did Mr. Brown tell you anything about some historical testing that had been done by your company? And I can't remember if it was Mr. Brown or Mr. Jones that told me, but I was Page 62 WATER PCB-SD0000013234 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY told that there was some sampling done in Snow Creek and some sediment removal from Snow Creek. Did he tell you when that was done? I want to -- My recollection was late '80s. Late '80s? Yes, sir. Well, did he tell you what kind of chemical was involved? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 78 PCBS . PCBS? Yes, sir. Did he tell you about any testing that had been done in Choccolocco Creek or Logan Martin Lake? The only testing I was aware of at that time in Choccolocco Creek was some fish samples. Fish samples? Yes, sir. And who told you about the fish samples? Either Mr. Jones or Mr. Brown. I'm not sure, but one of those two. What did either one of those two gentlemen tell you about the fish samples? What they told me was there was a contractor doing dredging operations on Page 63 WATER PCB-SD0000013235 20 21 22 23 Q. MAYASKY Choccolocco, gathered up some fish, had them analyzed, and found that they contained PCBs. And did they tell you when that 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 79 happened? '91, '92. I don't remember the exact date. '91 or '92? Yes, sir. And how is it that Mr. Brown or Mr. Jones told you that they became aware as employees of Monsanto about that testing? I believe it was communicated to them by ADEM. So ADEM told Mr. Jones or Mr. Brown or both of them in 1991 that there was some fish in Choccolocco Creek that had PCBs in it? MR. PECK: It may have been November of '93. I don't want Donald to send me off searching for stuff that doesn't exist and I know it's November of '93. So I don't want the record to be unclear about this. Page 64 WATER PCB-SD0000013236 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY 80 THE WITNESS: I was going to say I don't know if it was '91 or not. MR. STEWART: Thank you for your help, Adam. This incident, be it '91 or '93 -- My recollection fails me. They were communicated to by ADEM. Did anybody here at this local plant or anybody in St. Louis ever tell you, Mr. Mayausky, that there had been some testing done before '93 by your company in Snow Creek and before the mid '80s in Snow Creek? As I said earlier, they told me there were some samplings in Snow Creek, some was found in sediment. I don't remember the amount, but a large amount of sediment was dredged from Snow Creek and hauled off for disposal at Emelle. And I believe you have indicated previously -- and if I'm wrong, please don't let me put words in your mouth -- 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 81 that that was done sometime in the '80s, mid'80s. To the best of myrecollection, yeah. My question to you was did they tell you about any testing that had been done Page 65 WATER PCB-SD0000013237 MAYASKY before that time, before the '80s? Not that I recall. And not by a person who was a contractor, but by Monsanto itself? Not that I recall, no, sir. Did anybody at St. Louis tell you anything about any testing that had been done of either Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek, or Logan Martin Lake for PCBs before the mid '80s? No, sir. So it was your understanding as the plant manager of the Monsanto Chemical Company plant here in Anniston that the first time a problem had been discovered by Monsanto about PCB contamination in some of the tributaries that were contiguous to the plant was in the mid 82 '80s? That was your understanding as you sit here today? Yes, sir. No one told you any different? No, sir. Would it not be correct, Mr. Mayausky, that as the plant manager it would have been beneficial to you to have that information had this been a problem before the mid '80s? MR. PECK: Object to the form of MAYASKY 12 the question, calls for 13 speculation. 14 I don't know what advantage it would 15 have been to me, because I knew we had 16 this situation on the west landfill, and 17 we needed to be about working to fix 18 that with ADEM. 19 What I'm asking you, Mr. Mayausky, is 20 wouldn't you want to know, as the plant 21 manager for Monsanto, that the PCBs that 22 came from your landfill had migrated as 23 far away as Logan Martin Lake? 83 1 Again, I can't make the conclusion that 2 the PCBs necessarily came from there. I 3 knew we had a situation on our landfill 4 current, and I needed to work with ADEM 5 on that situation. That's where my 6 efforts needed to go. 7 Well, Mr. Mayausky, let's say for the 8 sake of a hypothetical, as plant manager 9 here, if you had known that the problem 10 existed before the '80s and that the 11 PCBs were such a problem that they had 12 migrated all the way down to Logan 13 Martin Lake, wouldn't that bit of 14 information have been highly important 15 to you as the plant manager here in 16 Anniston? 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of Page 67 WATER PCB-SD0000013239 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY the question, calls for speculation. It's an inaccurate summary of the testimony in this case to date. Go ahead. I knew that there was a finding of fish 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. 84 in Choccolocco Creek of PCBs. I knew we had a situation at the plant with the west end landfill. I needed to spend my time and energy working on that. At that time I still don't know if there was a conclusion or a direct link between those two. All right. Mr. Mayausky, you knew, of course, there were neighbors who lived north of this plant, didn't you? There were neighbors on the north side of the plant, yes, sir. And you knew that there were neighbors who lived to the west and to the east of your plant, did you not? Yes, sir. And you knew that there were neighbors who lived north of that landfill that was located south of 202, didn't you, across 202 in Cobb Town and Sweet Valley? You knew there were people who lived there? Yes. I think of them more of the east Page 68 WATER PCB-SD0000013240 MAYASKY 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 85 end neighbors, east of the plant. Let's say east of the plant. You knew that there were people who were there, didn't you? Yes, sir. Don't you think it would be important, in light of the fact that you had residents who lived around this plant, for you to know that this particular material, PCBs -- which is a regulated chemical compound, isn't it? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Wouldn't you think it would be important for you to know in connection with your responsibilities, under this pledge that we have previously mentioned, to those people how far this stuff had migrated in the '70s and in the -- maybe even the '60s? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. And I think for those nearby residents -- I think we found it in the water. We 1 2 3 4 Q. went immediately to ADEM and started talking to them and started proposing samples - We will get to that in a few minutes. Page 69 WATER PCB-SD0000013241 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 MAYASKY But what I want you to tell me is if you would consider that to be important in light of what your responsibilities are under that pledge to the neighbors? MR. PECK: He's asking whether or not it would be important to know what happened thirty years before, in light of the responsibility of the pledge to date. I will go back to what I said earlier. I knew we had situations we had to deal with right now, and I threw my efforts and energy into trying to correct those situations , not what may have occurred thirty years ago. Do you know what bio magnification is? No. I don't even know what that term i s. 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 87 Do you know or have any idea what passageways or pathways of PCBs might get into a person's blood? I'm not a medical expert, but I have been told that it can be transferred by eating fatty foods, fatty meats and fishes, yes, sir. Did you know anything about the makeup of the community or ask anybody about the makeup of the community that existed Page 70 WATER PCB-SD0000013242 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY to the east and to the north and to the west of that plant, Mr. Mayausky? When? in '94. I -- Notin '94, no, sir. Well, didn't you consider it important, in light of what you knewabout this regulated chemicalcompound and what effects it could have on people, Mr. Mayausky, in '94, to find out those kinds of things? I did in '95. I started door-to-door contacts in 1995. 88 1 But I'm talking about before 1995, 2 Mr. Mayausky. 3 In 1994, if you're asking should I have 4 spent the time to do that, perhaps I 5 should have. But I did in 1995, started 6 door-to-door contacts. 7 Now, Mr. Mayausky, what did you do -- I 8 want to go back to these questions. 9 What did you do in preparation for your 10 deposition here today? 11 I met with Adam yesterday just to talk 12 about some of the issues - 13 MR. PECK: Don't - 14 I'm not asking you what you talked to 15 Adam about. 16 MR. PECK: He's not asking or Page 71 WATER PCB-SD0000013243 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY entitled to know about that. That would be privileged. Let me just ask you. What documents did you review? Some of my communications that I had, some notes I had written with the church, some of the churches, some of 1 2 3 4Q 5A 6Q 7A 8Q 9 10 A 11 Q 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q 18 A 19 20 21 22 Q 89 the access agreements that we obtained from the residents as I went door to door. Those are things I remember. Did you look at any depositions? My own from previous. Your own from previous? Uh-huh (indicating yes). What did you look at in connection with your previous deposition? The record of my deposition. In what case? THE WITNESS: What case was that? MR. PECK: I think he was deposed in Wilson versus Monsanto, one of the lake cases. I don't even know which one. Anything else? No. That's really about it. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number One was marked for identification.) Let me show you Exhibit One to your Page 72 WATER PCB-SD0000013244 MAYASKY 23 deposition and ask you if you have ever 90 1 seen that, Mr. Mayausky, the deposition 2 notice. 3 Yes. This is what was sent to me. I 4 have seen this. 5 And did you make any efforts, 6 Mr. Mayausky, in connection with your 7 deposition here today, to secure any of 8 the documents that were referred to in 9 this request, deposition notice? 10 I did, but I don't have any -- I didn't 11 take any of this paperwork with me to 12 Massachusetts. 13 Okay. The plans and documents that 14 relate to the remediation work, where 15 were those located when you left the 16 pi ant? 17 They would be in probably Robert Jones' 18 files. 19 Okay. And the documents that you filed 20 or copies of documents that you filed or 21 submitted to the regulatory agency or 22 state or federal in connection with the 23 remediation work, the same place? 1 A. 2 Q. 91 Robert Jones' files, yes, sir. And the testing and sampling that you Page 73 WATER PCB-SD0000013245 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 Q. MAYASKY did in connection with the remediation work, would that be in Mr. Jones' file? Yes, sir. At the plant site? Yes, sir. MR. PECK: Are you talking about the last time he knew? THE WITNESS: The last as far as I know, until May of '97. Okay. Now, the results of medical tests that were done in connection with remediation -- Y'all did medical tests, didn't you, Mr. Mayausky, on a regular basis, some kind of testing of the people from Monsanto and the contractors and employees who worked out there? Yes, sir. Who did that testing? The contract physician we used was Dr. Gehi. Okay. And how often did he do it? 92 It was -- I believe it was recommended 2 for anybody over forty. 3 MR. PECK: Are you talking about 4 testing done in connection 5 with radiation, which is what 6 this paragraph four talks 7 about, or are you talking 8 about general testing? Page 74 WATER PCB-SD0000013246 MAYASKY 9 THE WITNESS: I'm talking about 10 general testing. 11 Well, let's first talk about testing, 12 because that's what I was asking the 13 question about, with regard to 14 remediation. Did you do any testing, 15 blood tests or anything else, of people 16 who worked at the plant site? We have 17 been informed that you did. 18 Yes, yes. We offered blood testing to 19 employees at the plant site, done by 20 Dr. Gehi. 21 Were those people who worked on 22 remediation or just people who worked at 23 the plant? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 93 Just anybody who worked at the plant. We had general meetings for anybody who was interested. When did you all do that, if you recall? When did you first do that? My best recollection is that was done early '96. We had the meetings and offered it to the people. What were you tested for? PCBs in blood. Who recommended that you do the testing? We talked about it, both myself and Dr. Kaley. Who is Dr. Kaley? Page 75 WATER PCB-SD0000013247 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY A person who works in St. Louis in our environmental department. Is he the medical director? Is that what he's called? No. He is not the medical director. He is a scientist, I guess, would be the best word to describe him. He has worked with a lot of PCB-related issues for Monsanto. 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 A. 94 So he recommended that you take blood tests of your employees who worked at the plant? We talked about it. I don't know if he recommended it, but we reached an agreement that we should offer it to our employees. Yes, sir. Because of the possibility that they might have PCBs in their blood? Yes, sir. How many people were tested? I don't remember the exact number. My recollection was twenty, twenty-five, because I never saw the individual results. Okay. Were you aware of what the individual results showed? No. Did anybody have PCBs in their blood? Yes, sir. Page 76 WATER PCB-SD0000013248 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY And were they sent to a doctor after that? They were -- Dr. Gehi did all the 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. 95 communications. He delivered the results. Was there any continuing program to work with those people who had PCBs? There were some suggested people, I think, at the -- some Birmingham hospitals who they could talk with if they wanted to. The name escapes me. Dr. Mueller? Yeah, Dr. Mueller. So you all hired Dr. Mueller? I'm not sure if we hired him, but he was offered up as somebody they could talk to. Who offered him up? Dr. Gehi and Dr. Kaley. So the employee scientist, Dr. Kaley, and Dr. Gehi, who was y'all's regular physician who treated your people, suggested they go talk to Dr. Mueller? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. Right. And if I remember correctly, we 96 1 also talked to the -- they could talk to Page 77 WATER PCB-SD0000013249 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY the Alabama Department of Public Health through Dr. - Brian Hughes? -- Hughes. Thank you. And this was all done in '96? To the best of my recollection. Was Dr. Mueller paid for any consultation that he gave to an employee by Monsanto? I don't know the details of that. I don't know. Who would know the details of that, Mr. Mayausky? Dr. Kaley, probably. So that was handled out of St. Louis? Yes, sir. Do you know if any of these people went over and saw him? No, I don't. Now, y'all gave out material safety data sheets and training materials to people in the remediation work, didn't you? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 97 I assume, yes, we would have. Who was responsible for that? Either Robert Jones or Alan Faust. What did they relate to, if you know, Mr. Mayausky? They would relate to any substance they may come in contact with. Usually there Page 78 WATER PCB-SD0000013250 MAYASKY 8 are MSDSs that are made available to 9 people who might be working with 10 anything. 11 Again, maybe I'm just a little old 12 fellow from Munford, Mr. Mayausky, but 13 I'm having trouble understanding how 14 y'all would make a determination as to 15 what material safety data sheets to give 16 these people who were, I assume, people 17 working on the west end landfill and 18 subsequently on the south -- southern 19 landfill. How would you know what 20 material safety data sheets to give them 21 if you didn't know what was buried 22 there? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 98 1 the question. It calls for 2 speculation. This witness 3 wasn't involved in that. 4 I wasn't involved in that at all. 5 MR. STEWART: I don't mind you 6 making objections, if you 7 want to consult with him - 8 Of course, if you want to do 9 it on the record, you can. 10 But why don't you just let 11 the witness answer the 12 questions. 13 MR. PECK: The witness is Page 79 WATER PCB-SD0000013251 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY answering the questions. I was not involved in those decisions. Well, let me just ask you. Intellectually how would you have made it -- You couldn't have told them what material safety data sheets to use, could you? I would have directed them to the reams of material safety datasheets we have on file in the plant. 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 A 13 Q 14 15 16 A 17 Q 18 A 19 Q 99 So there are material safety data sheets that reflect what was stored in those landfills? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. I don't know if everything that could be in that landfill would be in those material safety data sheets, no. But there are some things other than PCBs that are buried there that you know about; is that correct? No, I don't know. I don't know. So other than PCBs, you don't know of anything else that's buried in the landfill that you can tell us today? No, sir. And didn't know it in '94? No, sir. Didn't know it in '95? Page 80 WATER PCB-SD0000013252 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY No, sir. And didn't know it in '96? No, sir. Well, you did notconsider it, then, a 1 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 23 Q. 100 part of your responsibility as a plant manager and representative of Monsanto here in this community to know that? I knew that we were monitoring ground water for any potential -- The plant is ringed by ground water monitoring wells that capture that, send it to our waste treatment plant. And I knew we had the situation and we had to work with ADEM to close that landfill. And that's all you knew? Yes, sir. Now, were there documents that -- if you will take a look at paragraph seven of this notice -- that have to do with correspondence, notes, records of memorandum that relate to communications that you might have had with employees of the City of Anniston or city offi cial s? Did I have any of these with me? No, I did not in Massachusetts. Let me ask you this: Do they exist? Page 81 WATER PCB-SD0000013253 1 A. 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 MAYASKY 101 I -- The ones I - MR. PECK: if you know. The ones I remember, I reviewed yesterday, the notes from the church and the notes from -- the signature pages for people who signed. But that's all I remember. I'm talking about here copies of correspondence that you might have written yourself to some -- like Doug Ghee or Eli Henderson. No, sir. Now, what about the waterworks and sewer board? Did you have any correspondence with them, conversations with them during the time you were working on the west end landfill orthe southern landfill? Not that I recall, sir, no. Do you know anything at all, as you sit here today, Mr. Mayausky,from what you have been told by either people in St. Louis or peoplehere at the plant -- 1 2 3 4 A. 5 102 like Jerry Brown or Robert Jones or any of those operators that you talked about -- about the hydrology of this area? Yes. In talking with Robert Jones or Jerry Brown about -- if you are talking Page 82 WATER PCB-SD0000013254 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 19 A 20 Q 21 22 A 23 Q MAYASKY about general ground water flows, yes. We talked about how generally the plant's ground water flows and moves in a northwesterly direction. And then we had the ground water monitoring wells that were around that end of the plant to capture that ground water flow. When did you have those conversations with Mr. Brown and - Again, late '94, as I was in transition. Did they ever indicate to you that they had any kind of conversations with the Anniston Waterworks and Sewer Board? No, not that I remember them telling me. Did you ever have any conversations with them? No. Did you ever have any concerns about how 1 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 103 this problem that you all have at the plant might affect the water supply in the City of Anniston? No. Because the water supply from the City of Anniston came from Coldwater Mountain, which was the opposite direction. And I knew the ground water was being captured by the monitoring wells, by the perimeter wells. So you were told by Mr. Jones and Mr. Brown that that was just not a Page 83 WATER PCB-SD0000013255 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY problem? Is that what you're telling us? Yes, sir; yes, sir. But you did consider the possibility that it could be; is that correct? But I felt that what we had in place was controlling it, yes, sir. Did you ever talk to anybody at ADEM about that at the time that you discovered this problem in 1994, Mr. Mayausky? No, sir. That the ground water and the 1 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 104 drinking water -- Is that what you are asking particularly about? Yes. No, sir. Did they ever talk to you about it? No, sir, no. Did Mr. Jones or Mr. Brown ever indicate to you that there had been some concern expressed by ADEM about how your plant's landfills and the contaminants that were located there might affect the city water here? That ADEM was concerned? Or the ground water. MR. PECK: Let me object to the form of the question, because I don't understand the Page 84 WATER PCB-SD0000013256 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 MAYASKY question, if you do, go ahead. Again, we talked earlier that we had discussions, Jones, Brown, that the ground water monitoring wells captured the ground water. The source of 1 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 23 105 drinking water for Anniston came from someplace else. But if you're saying did ADEM bring that up, no, I don't remember ADEM bringing that up. My question to you was did Mr. Jones or Mr. Brown ever indicate to you that ADEM might have brought that up previously? No, sir; no, sir. if they had, Mr. Mayausky, don't you think that would have been important for you to know as plant manager in dealing with this particular problem? MR. PECK: Object to the form. For instance, when you had conversations with somebody like Tom Wright, who was the city manager, about this problem and brought him up to date? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the questions, calls for speculation. I can't -- I don't know what ADEM told those guys, so I can't speculate if they ever told them anything. I felt Page 85 WATER PCB-SD0000013257 MAYASKY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7Q 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 A 13 Q 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 A 22 23 Q 106 comfortable with what they told me, that the ground -- drinking water supply for Anniston was away from any concern of the plant because it was on Coldwater Mountain, hydraulically away from the pi ant. That's what Mr. Jones told you and Mr. Brown told you? Yes, sir. So you never had any conversations with the water department about that? No, sir. Never felt it necessary to have any conversation with them about that? No, sir. Never felt it necessary to check with them about that? No, sir. Other than Garrity and Miller, who did your testing out there? That's the only contractor I'm aware of that did some. There was - Who in particular did you have do the 1 2 A. 3 4 sampling? Who was the person? There was a young man who was kind of their supervisor, but I do not recall his name right now. I'm sorry. I can Page 86 WATER PCB-SD0000013258 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY see his face, but I don't recall his name. Who were the people who put together your plan of remediation? Worked with Golder and Associates on that. Golder? MR. PECK: Are you talking about the west end landfill, the whole - MR. STEWART: First the west end landfill. The west end landfill, the actual contractor who did the work was Westinghouse. Who did the plan itself? I believe it was Golder and Associates, but I may be mistaken. Y'all hired a company to do the plan? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 A. 108 Yes, sir. What involvement, ifyou know, did the Monsanto employees have inputting that plan together? I know that things were generally run by Robert Jones for review and approval. Okay. Anything done by anybody outside of the plant, or was it just up to Mr. Jones? Well, then later on Alan Faust or Jo Page 87 WATER PCB-SD0000013259 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY Hanson. Alan Faustor Jo Hanson? Yes. Who worked out of the St. Louis office? Right. Now, who above them was involved in the process, the decision-making process in the plant? Those people reported to a gentleman by the name of Mike Foresman. And Mr. Foresman, would he have the final say-so about what was done here locally at the site? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 15 16 109 Yes, sir. And you say you looked at documents that had to do with memorandum or correspondence you might have had with the residents down in Cobb Town and Sweet Valley in connection with preparation for your deposition here today? Yes, sir. Any other documents you might have sent to ADEM or anything like that by yourself? We looked at the consent orders that were signed, the first one signed in March of '95 and the second one in, I believe, April of '96. Page 88 WATER PCB-SD0000013260 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY Okay. So there was one signed in March of '95? Yes, sir. And one signed in April of '96? Yes, sir. Now, let's go back from those consent orders, if we can, Mr. Mayausky, and ask 1 2 MR. PECK: At some point I need a 3 break, Donald, when you reach 4 a good point. 5 MR. STEWART: Well, we have about 6 ten minutes before twelve. 7 Why don't we go as far as we 8 can, if that's all right with 9 everybody and get -- Or do 10 you need to take one now? 11 MR. PECK: No. I don't need to go 12 that bad. I just didn't know 13 what we were going to do 14 about lunch, whether we can 15 keep going and get done. 16 MR. STEWART: My preference is 17 today, if you don't mind, 18 since he is here today, 19 finish him today. What I 20 would like to do is take a 21 short -- Off the record. 22 (Discussion held off record.) Page 89 WATER PCB-SD0000013261 23 Q. MAYASKY What did you understand had been done on 1 2 3 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 111 the west end landfill site, Mr. Mayausky, as far as planning and testing were concerned at the time you got here in August of '94? I know at that point in time they were still interviewing contractors to come in to do the work and trying to figure out who exactly would do the work and looking at some of the proposals that they would perhaps come up with to cap that landfill. Okay. Had the decision been made at that time as to exactly what y'all were going to do? No, I don't believe so. I believe that was made after I got here. So the decision had not been made as to what you were going to do to remediate it? NO. You had interviewed contractors and looked at some proposals;. What were some of the proposals that had been 1 2 A. looked at, if you know, Mr. -I don't know. Page 90 112 WATER PCB-SD0000013262 3 Q. 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY Well, after you got here, did you learn that there was more than one proposal that was looked at? No, sir. Well, what proposal did you understand when you got here was being talked about by either Mr. Jones, Mr. Brown, a combination of both, and the other people you have mentioned? And ADEM. And ADEM. It would be a capping of the landfill with a clay cap, a synthetic 1ine cap, and then a dirt cap on top of that. And that's the only proposal that you know of that was ever considered? Yes, sir. Tell me what you know or what you knew at that time, Mr. Mayausky, about remediation. Actually very little. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 113 Okay. I never had worked in that area. Weren't you the onewho ultimately had to sign off on what was done here locally? Yes, sir. And did you consider -- or if youknow, did the people who were involved in the Page 91 WATER PCB-SD0000013263 9 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY planning, the Monsanto folks, Golder and Associates, ever consider any other possibility? Not that I was aware of, no, sir. Are you aware as you sit here today of other possibilities that Monsanto has said could be used in situations like this? For PCB contamination? Well, first for contamination itself, but then, yes, for PCB contamination. Just take them both, combine them both. There are other alternative technologies for other types of contaminations, like incineration or a technique that 114 1 actually Monsanto developed known as the 2 lasagna technique, where you put 3 electrical poles into the ground and 4 migrate chemicals from one cathode or 5 anode. Those are distinct possibilities 6 for general contaminations. But for 7 PCBs, I'm not aware of any. 8 So it's your statement here to us today 9 that as the plant manager of this 10 particular facility, the Monsanto plant, 11 you know of no other procedure that 12 could be used for contamination such as 13 this, PCBs? 14 PCBs? You can bake them out of soil, Page 92 WATER PCB-SD0000013264 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY but it's not very -- From what I have been told, it's very difficult to do. Tell me who told you about the baking Dr. Kaley. And when did Dr. Kaley tell you about the baking? I don't remember exactly when, but I remember looking at some other possibilities. I would guess '94. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 115 Okay. And who brought up the baking process? I think I asked the question are there other technologies you might use, and he said there was a baking, in ground incineration, but it was not practical for what we were doing. Why did he tell you it was not practical? Because of the amount of material, the mounds of dirt that we had, and it was not -- in the end that it was not very efficient in removal of PCBs. Not very efficient? Yes, sir. Wasn't very practical, did not work wel1. And why is it that he told you that it did not work well? What were the reasons that he gave to you as the plant manager here that the baking in the Page 93 WATER PCB-SD0000013265 21 22 k. 23 ground - MAYASKY It wasn't effective in removing entirely. it 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 23 116 Was not effective? No, sir. But isn't that a form, Mr. Mayausky, of incineration? Well, it is a form of incineration, as the soil was baked, in my understanding, the way he described it to me, in large kiln ovens, rotating kiln ovens. And that would be a form of incineration? Yes, sir. And you would do it on-site? I think when he told me there were some people who weretrying to dothat at sites around the United States, yes, sir. And who were the people he told you were trying to do it? I don't remember him telling me who they were. Was there any discussion in your conversation with Dr.Kaley about the cost of doing that? 1 A. 117 There was discussion about because of Page 94 WATER PCB-SD0000013266 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 MAYASKY the magnitude of soil we had it would be very difficult to get enough of it through and it would probably be very costly to do that, yes. Did he give you any estimation as to the cost? No. Did he tell you whether or not what you ultimately did would be cheaper or more expensive than what you talked about when you talked about baking it? No.He never said that. Did you ever talk to anybody in Monsanto who had had experience with other methods of removal of this type of contaminant from the soil other than Dr. Kaley? No. Wereyou ever told that y'all had someone who was a, quote, expert in this field who had specific thoughts about how you dealt with PCB contaminant? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 A. 118 NO. Do you know sitting here today and did you know then that there was a suggested method or approach that Monsanto had for doing away with contamination that was better than what y'all did? No. Page 95 WATER PCB-SD0000013267 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY Have you ever heard of detoxifying or taking some biological kind of treatment and really taking the poison out of a substance, changing or transforming that substance? In 1996 I saw a little blurb in some scientific article -- I think it was Chemical and Engineering News -- about an approach somebody was taking -- I didn't understand it to be Monsanto doing it -- of a biological treatment of PCBs. Of PCBS? Uh-huh (indicating yes). What did you understand the biological treatment of PCBs would do? 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 119 That it would detoxify it, break it down. Detoxify it? Yeah. Break it downto - MR. PECK: You are not saying there is such an approach. I just saw this blurb about it in C and E News. That's all I know about it. if -- Let's just say any contaminant, not just PCBs. But if you can detoxify it, that's a better approach than what you'vedone here; isn't it? Page 96 WATER PCB-SD0000013268 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY MR. PECK: Object to the form. I'm not a scientist to make that conclusion. Well, as you sit here today, the cap is on top of stuff -- Do you know anything about the shelf life of PCBs? I know it lasts a very long time. And you know that it is a toxic or regulated chemical, do you not? Yes, sir. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 120 And that it stays in that state during that long time that exists, does it not? Yes, sir. So if you detoxified it, wouldn't it be logical to say that you had basically removed the problem from - I don't know what the products of detoxification are, are they better or worse than the material we had. I don't know. Did you even look at that at the time you made the determination? No. The next one would be incineration. You've indicated to us you talked about baking it in the ground. Did you talk about actually at any point in time with Dr. Kaley burning the substance, the dirt and the other substances? Page 97 WATER PCB-SD0000013269 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY No, sir. You nevertalked about doing that? No. Did you know for afact that that could 1 2 3A 4Q 5 6 7 8A 9 10 11 Q 12 A 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q 19 20 A 21 Q 22 A 23 Q 121 or could not be done at the time that you were - No, sir. Tell me, if you would, if you talked about removing the substance from the area and taking it to someplace like Emel1e. Yeah. We talked about moving some of it to Emelle, yes, sir. And we did some of that. Tell me about that. I mean, when we first started to work on the landfill and we were digging the toe, the bottom basin of the landfill, the edge, to build a pipe drainage system, that dirt was removed and taken to Emelle. When is that, now? Are you talking about the western landfill? The west end landfill. So you took that to Emelle? Yes, sir. And do you know how much you took to Page 98 WATER PCB-SD0000013270 1 2A 3 4 5Q 6 7A 8 9 10 Q 11 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 19 A 20 Q 21 22 23 MAYASKY 122 Emel1e? I want to say it was around four hundred thousand pounds. It was quite a substantial amount of material. How much did that cost you, Mr. Mayausky? The number -- my recollection could be wrong -- was approaching nine hundred thousand dollars. Did y'all make any estimation as to what it would cost to remove the PCB contaminated soil from the west end landfill? Not that I'm aware of, no, sir. Do you have any idea sitting here today if anybody, Mr. Kaley -- or Dr. Kaley or Robert Jones or any of those people ever talked about doing that? No, sir. Would you not admit sitting here today, Mr. Mayausky, that that would remove the problem from this area here? MR. PECK: Object to the form of 1 2 A. 3 4 5 123 the question. It would remove the contaminated material from the site here, yes, sir. MR. STEWART: I'm going to stop right there. I've got some Page 99 WATER PCB-SD0000013271 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY other questions to ask, but I will start back at twelve thirty. (A break was taken from 12:00 noon to 12:30 p.m.) You were talking about the different methods of doing away with the materials that y'all had in the western landfill that you discussed with Mr. Kaley, and you talked about the baking. And I believe we had gotten to the point where I had asked you about excavating the material itself, similar to what you had done with some of it. You told me that y'all had actually done that with four hundred thousand pounds of that. To my recollection. Can you give me some idea sitting here 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 11 Q. 124 today how much of that material that would constitute, what percentage of the material that was located in the western landfill, that four hundred thousand pounds y'all removed? No. Would that be a very small amount? No. I could only speculate. I wouldn't -- It was very little compared to the overall amount that was there. Would it be less than ten percent of the Page 100 WATER PCB-SD0000013272 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 materi al ? MAYASKY MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. You don't have to speculate. Would it be less than ten percent? You can give a judgment. My judgment, and strictly judgment, would be less than ten percent. Less than five? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. You don't have to speculate. 125 1 A. I don't know. I'd say less than ten. 2 Q. And nine hundred thousand dollars, is 3 that just an approximation of what it 4 cost y'all to remove that? 5 A. Yes, sir. That's my recollection. 6 Q. Now, I assume the four hundred thousand 7 pounds that you removed y'all put on 8 trucks and took down to -- Was it buried 9 or - 10 A. It was put on trucks and transported to 11 Emelle, yes, sir. 12 Q. Was there a cost per truck? 13 A. Yes. Each truck was weighed and a cost 14 per truck was determined. 15 Q. Those special trucks thatyou had to use 16 to haul waste material suchas this? 17 A. It was a trucking concern who was used Page 101 WATER PCB-SD0000013273 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY to handling -- moving industrial waste. The name of the trucking concern? I do not recall. Those records should be available. I don't recall. Was the decision made not to use -- not to move the rest of the material to 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 A. 126 Emelle based on the amount of material that you had there and the cost? Yes. We went back to ADEM and asked ADEM -- Number one, there was a concern about, as we moved it, that you would lose some of it going down the highway. You are disturbing it. You had the risk of potentially -- any transportation event could occur, and you could have a problem. And then we had a contact with ADEM and said, "Can we just -- This is just dirt we are digging out from the toe of the landfill. Would it be possible for us to put that back on the landfill that we are going to cap anyway?" And the decision was by ADEM that that would be okay, that would be okay to handle the material. Let me see if I understand. Were y'all at that particular point in time planning on taking all of the material - No. Page 102 WATER PCB-SD0000013274 MAYASKY 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 127 -- that had the contaminant in it to Erne'lle and you stopped at midstream and said, "Lord, this is costing too much, so let's see if we can't get ADEM to let us do otherwise"? No. There was never an intention to move the entire landfill. They were digging around the toe and with that dirt decided that they were going to move it to Emelle. Why? That's a good question. We did not quite understand why ourselves. When nobody really asked ADEM, given the concern of potentially spreading that material around and a traffic incident, we went back to them and said, "Could we possibly put this back on the landfill? We are going to cap the landfill anyway." They said, "Yes, you can do that." Y'all had made the decision at that point in time yourself, though -- ADEM 1 2 3 A. 4 128 didn't require that. Y'all had made the decision to move it? We had made the decision internally, and I think when other people got involved Page 103 WATER PCB-SD0000013275 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY in that decision and decided they wanted to go back to ADEM and ask - Who made -- Excuse me. Who made the decision? I believe at that time the engineer in charge of that project was Jo Hanson. So Jo Hanson had made the decision that y'all would move the stuff to Emelle? Yes, sir, as I recall. Who is it that got involved, Mr. Mayausky,and decided that you wouldn't? I think it was Robert Jones who first brought up the question of should we approach ADEM about putting it on the landfill. Robert Jones.And why is it that he decided to do that, because of the cost? No. Because of the concerns that it's 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 129 probably better, that we had the potential of spreading it around, loading it in trucks and an event down the highway. And I'm sure the cost weighed in also. Well, it would be cheaper to do it the way you ultimately did it, wouldn't it? I would say it would be cheaper. Would you say that was a major factor in Mr. Jones' decision? Page 104 WATER PCB-SD0000013276 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY I would say it was a factor, between that and transportation concerns. How much of the material -- You moved four hundred thousand pounds to Emelle. How much of the material did you dig around the toe of this thing and put back in the landfill? I don't remember. Did it exceed four hundred thousand pounds? I don't know. I couldn't even venture a guess. All right. Now, you were telling me 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 130 that when y'all got there -- or when you got there in August of 1994, contractors had been talked to and a proposal had been put together. When did y'all finally get your proposal together? MR. PECK: Talking about the west end landfill? MR. STEWART: The west end landfill is where we are. I'm sorry. It seems to me the best recollection is late '94, early '95. In late '94 or early '95 -Yes. -- y'all got it together? You then went to ADEM with the proposal? Page 105 WATER PCB-SD0000013277 17 A. 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY We went to ADEM for them to look over the proposal to see if they concurred with it. What did the proposal consist of? What were y'all going to do? Cap the landfill, improve drainage around the landfill, cap the landfill. 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 A 11 Q 12 13 A 14 15 16 17 Q 18 A 19 20 Q 21 22 A 131 And the way I understand the capping process, was put a layer of clay over it and a synthetic membrane and then a layer of dirt on top of that for vegetation. Now, y'all took that by way of a plan and then got ADEM to approve it. What major changes, if any, did they make in it? I don't recall any. Okay. So they took it, basically, as you took it down there? I can't say that for certain. I'd say I can't recall that they made any changes. Robert Jones would have been involved in those negotiations or discussions. But you were too, weren't you? No. I don't remember being there to discuss the west end landfill, no, sir. But the approval came after you got there in August of '94? Yes, sir. Page 106 WATER PCB-SD0000013278 23 Q. MAYASKY Did he report to you about his trips 1 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 A 11 Q 12 13 14 A 15 16 17 18 Q 19 20 A 21 Q 22 23 A 132 that he made down there? He would tell me he was in the process of taking the plan down to ADEM for approval. if there was any back and forth in between him and ADEM, he didn't make me aware of those. Did he ever tell you at any point in time, "They have approved what we have proposed"? Yes, yes. Did he tell you during that conversation at any point in time that they have made us change this or this or this - Not that I recall - MR. PECK: You are doing it again. You have to wait until he finishes. -- this or this or this, that would be a major component of that plan? No, I don't recal1. Are you telling me that he didn't tell you that? I'm telling you I do not recall if he 1 2 Q. 133 did. Okay. Wouldn't that be something you Page 107 WATER PCB-SD0000013279 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY would remember, Mr. Mayausky, if they told y'all, "Well, we don't think you ought to do this or that or the other," that was a major component of it, say, like put the cap on it, take it to Emelle, something like that? They didn't do any of those things, did they? They pretty well bought the proposal that you told me about a few minutes ago, didn't they? I don't recall if he told me anything. Well, let me ask you this way, Mr. Mayausky: You have indicated to me that y'all's plan consisted of putting the dirt cap on there and then this plastic cover and then - MR. PECK: Synthetic. -- synthetic cover and then some more dirt. Yes. None of that changed, did it? 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 134 I don't recall that he said it did. I don't. That's what you actually did to the landfill? That's what we actually did to the landfill. So as a practical matter, none of that changed, did it? Page 108 WATER PCB-SD0000013280 MAYASKY 9 if that was in the original proposal. I 10 can assume it was, but I don't know if 11 it changed from the original proposal, 12 and I don't even know if the original 13 proposal changed. I just don't recall. 14 What testing, if any that you know of, 15 was done by anybody other than Garrity 16 and Miller up there before y'all 17 presented your proposal to ADEM? 18 MR. PECK: West end landfill? 19 MR. STEWART: On the west end 20 landfill. 21 The only testing I'm aware of is what 22 Alabama Power did. 23 So Alabama Power did it, and they 1 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 135 reported it. Y'all took the property back, and then y'all did testing? Yes, to my knowledge, yes. And nobody else did? To my knowledge, I don't think anybody else did. So would it be fair to say, then, that ADEM did not do any testing at the west end landfill before y'all's proposal was accepted by - I do not recall ADEM coming out for testing, no, sir. So they basically took your test results, didn't they? Page 109 WATER PCB-SD0000013281 15 A. 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 Q. 23 A. MAYASKY The only testing I remember was as we actually began the work they came out and sampled some samples out there as the work was in progress. Who did that and - Somebody at ADEM. I do not recall the individual's name. How often did they come? I remember one time they came. 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 136 So during the whole time that y'all were involved in capping the west end landfill, ADEM came one time? That I recall, yes, sir. MR. PECK: One time to sample or one time? THE WITNESS: One time to sample, but I do not recall -- They visited the plant many times. How many times did they visit the plant -- How frequently -- let me ask it that way -- did they visit the plant and monitor your activities during the time you were doing the work on the west end landfill? I can think of -- Besides the one sampling incident where one engineer of theirs came out, I can remember at least one other time that engineers and then a next level person came out. I don't Page 110 WATER PCB-SD0000013282 MAYASKY 21 recall his name right now. But the 22 engineers would have reported to him. 23 Like a Gerald Hardy is one name I 1 2 3Q 4A 5 6 7Q 8 9 10 A 11 Q 12 A 13 Q 14 15 A 16 17 18 19 Q 20 A 21 Q 22 23 137 remember, but I don't remember Gerald Hardy's level. How long did that project take? I think that project was completed in early '96, was actually wrapped up and completed. So during the time frame from -- Would it be sometime in -- When did you begin it? Spring, early summer of '95. Spring or early summer of '95? Yeah. Well, didn't you get a consent order in March of 1995? The consent -- Yes. The consent order in March of 1995 was with ADEM to complete that project. That was part of the consent order. The project? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Was there any other aspect of that order that dealt with anything other than the west end landfill? 1 A. Yes. 138 That order talked about sampling Page 111 WATER PCB-SD0000013283 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY in the drainage areas around the plant. On the -- Below the south - Below the south landfill and on properties that we owned on the east end of the plant. Across Clydesdale? Yes, sir. And over north of the Mars Hill Church? Some along -- Yeah, in that general area, north, yeah, just north of that piece of property we own, just north of Mars Hill Church. And am I to understand that y'all got that consent order and got the approval of the work that y'all were going to do on the west end landfill as a result of y'all's presentation --Monsanto's presentation of the proposal, your sampling results that you had done, the one sampling that you have told us about, and the one visit by an engineer during the project -- is that correct -- 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 A. 139 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. -- by ADEM? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. I think he's testified he doesn't know. I remember the meeting where we had - Page 112 WATER PCB-SD0000013284 8 9 10 11 Q 12 A 13 Q 14 A 15 Q 16 A 17 Q 18 A 19 Q 20 A 21 22 23 MAYASKY The discussion of the consent order was when we went down and talked to them about the water findings. When was that? March. In March? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Did that take place here in Oxford? No. That took place in Montgomery. In Montgomery? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Who all was at that meeting? A whole group of ADEM people. Some names I remember are Jimmy Coles, Amy Gray, Gerald Hardy, Barbara Jones, myself, and kind of the section head of 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 140 ADEM. His name escapes me now. Poole? Poole, John Poole. Thank you. Anybody else? That's all that I recall. A Dan Cooper. So am I to understand that at this point in time there had been one visit by ADEM people to the site that you know about? I don't know -- When I talked about the engineer coming out for sampling while the work was progressing, I do not remember whether that was before that meeting or after that meeting. I just Page 113 WATER PCB-SD0000013285 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY remember being told by Mr. Jones that there was an ADEM engineer in the plant and she was going to look at the progress on the west end landfill and pull some samples of what was going on. There certainly wasn't anybody on site up there from ADEM from the time y'all discovered it with Alabama Power until y'all got your proposal ready, was there? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 19 141 Was there anybody on-site? From ADEM. Did anybody stay there the whole time while y'all were involved in the construction project? People working on the construction? No. I'm talking about from ADEM. No, sir. Did an ADEM representative stay there until y'all got your proposal ready and then through the construction period? No. Just these visits. And the only two visits you can remember are the two you mentioned? That's the only two I remember, yes, sir. So would it be fair to say that they basically took y'all's proposal and basically took your sampling results to Page 114 WATER PCB-SD0000013286 MAYASKY 20 make their decision as to what should be 21 done up there on that landfill? Didn't 22 they, Mr. Mayausky? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 Q. 23 142 the question, calls for speculation. I can tell you I wasn't involved in those discussions, and I don't know what give and take was going on between Robert Jones and ADEM, what sampling they requested. I don't know. Maybe I misunderstood you, but I thought you were involved in the discussions that you just mentioned when you finally got your consent order. And you told me what you knew about who came up there. And you have also indicated to me that they didn't make any major changes in your proposal. What's different about what I said and what actually happened? Can I ask one question? Certai nly. What's one question? I mean, you have asked me a lot of different things there. What I'm saying to you -- What I'm asking you is this, and let me ask Page 115 WATER PCB-SD0000013287 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 22 23 Q. MAYASKY 143 you this way: It is fair to say that they didn't have someone on-site watching what y'all were doing, testing or anything else, before y'all began your work. That's fair, isn't it? They had people visiting the site and in discussions with us on what we were going to - But you don't know how often they would visit? You don't know anything about that? No. But you onlyremember theone time that they came up before y'all went down in March? I don't even remember ifthatwas before March. So you don't remember anyvisits as plant manager? No. MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. And you all put theproposal together, 1 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 144 and there weren't any major changes in it? Again, I don't know what changes were made particularly in it. But you know that what y'all had Page 116 WATER PCB-SD0000013288 MAYASKY 6 originally proposed that Robert Jones 7 told you about is what you ultimately 8 did. We have gone through that before, 9 haven't we? 10 I knew that we were proposing to cap the 11 landfill in place, and that's what we 12 ultimately did. 13 Okay. And as a practical matter, y'all 14 met down there to get basically approved 15 what y'all had decided to do in 16 Monsanto; is that not correct? 17 That is not correct. What we went down 18 there to do is to tell them about the 19 water sampling and some of the results 20 that we found at that point in time. 21 And you got a consent order to go ahead 22 and do what you ultimately did, didn't 23 you, in March? 145 1 But you asked if that's what we went 2 down there with the intention of doing, 3 and no, that's not. We went down to 4 tell them about the water sampling 5 results. 6 Didn't you also give them the plan at 7 that time? Didn't y'all discuss what 8 y'all planned to do? 9 I think they already had the plan in 10 hand by the time we got down there. 11 And do you remember exactly when that Page 117 WATER PCB-SD0000013289 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY was in March that y'all went down and had the meeting? No. Went was it in relation to when you got the consent order signed? Did y'all get it signed that day? I think it was very shortly after that we got it signed, within a week. Within aweek? Or two. And did they indicate on that occasion that they would approve it? 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 146 I don't remember when the exact approval came. Time-wise I can't remember if it was before that meeting or during that meeting or after that meeting. I'm sorry. I don't remember. During the meeting did anybody from ADEM raise any serious questions that you can recall sitting here today about either your proposal or your test results? No, sir. Was there any discussion that you had with them, with the representatives from ADEM, on behalf of Monsanto, about the incineration process that you had talked about to Dr. Kaley? No, sir, not that I had. Did anybody else sitting in the meeting Page 118 WATER PCB-SD0000013290 MAYASKY 18 say, "Well, fellows, we have got an 19 alternative proposal, may be a little 20 more expensive, but it will be better 21 for us and for the community if we bake 22 it in the soil"? Did you talk about 23 that? Did you bring it up at all? 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 147 No, I did not bring it up. And I don't know if it would be better necessarily for the community. Did you bring up? No, I did not bring it up. But I - MR. PECK: Please let him answer your questions. He is trying to make sure he lets you finish your questions. Please let him finish his answer. I'm not sure if that particular burning technique, kiln technique, would be necessarily better for the community. Did you bring it up while you were down there? No, I did not bring it up. I think with the kiln technique you may be exchanging a ground problem for an air problem. I don't know. I'm not a scientist. Let me ask you a question while we are talking about that. How many air samples did you take? Page 119 WATER PCB-SD0000013291 MAYASKY 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 Q22 23 148 None. So it's my understanding, sitting here today, as plant manager you didn't have any air sampling done around the plant in connection with PCBs from the time you came here in August of '94 until you left in -- what time? May of 1997. So in May of 1997 you didn't see any benefit in doing air testing? For PCBs? Right. No, sir. Well, what if it was in the air, Mr. Mayausky? Wouldn't you want to know? I would like to know. But I talked with Dr. Kaley, and he did not believe it would have air transmission routes to necessarily require sampling. Tell me exactly what Dr. Kaley said that you are referring to. What did he tell you? 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. He told me the PCBs did not have a transport mechanism through air, so sampling would not be required. And when did he tell you that? Page 120 149 WATER PCB-SD0000013292 MAYASKY 5 I don't remember the exact time of that 6 conversation. 7 Isn't it a fact, Mr. Mayausky, that 8 there is -- that you have now learned 9 that there is a method to test the air 10 to determine if PCBs are present? 11 I'm sure --No, I have not learned that. 12 But as a chemist I know that you can 13 sample for many compounds in the air. I 14 would assume there would be one for 15 PCBs. 16 But you are telling me that PCBs don't 17 travel by air is what Dr. Kaley told 18 you? 19 Sampling for it in the air and 20 determining if it's there is two 21 entirely different things to me. I 22 would assume there is a technique to 23 sample for chemicals in the air, yes. 150 1 But you're saying that Dr. Kaley told 2 you that it just didn't travel by air? 3 Yes, sir, that in his opinion he didn't 4 think that it was necessary to do air 5 sampling. 6 Well, why is it, if you can tell me, 7 Mr. Mayausky -- and maybe you can't - 8 why is it that there are air samplers 9 located all around this site now, the 10 remediation site now? Page 121 WATER PCB-SD0000013293 MAYASKY That may have occurred after I left. It was not during the time that I was there, for PCBs. Do you have any idea what the air samplers are located on your property for now? For PCBs? I'm asking you, Mr. Mayausky, do you have any idea why Monsanto has seen fit to, since you left, place air samplers around the south end landfill and the catchment basin and behind Mars Hill Missionary Baptist Church. 151 No, I do not know. Is Dr. Kaley still working for Monsanto? Yes. Would you think that he would still be advising Monsanto about those air samplers? MR. PECK: I object to the form of the question. It's asking for gross speculation. I -- You would have to ask Dr. Kaley that question. Would he be the person one would talk to in your position if he wanted to find out about air sampling, as you did? MR. PECK: About air sampling for the Monsanto plant right now? Page 122 MAYASKY 17 You know darn well that's 18 being done by litigation 19 driven concerns, Donald, and 20 you are trying to mislead the 21 witness by discussing it with 22 him. 23 MR. STEWART: No, I'm not trying 152 1 to mislead the witness. Why 2 don't you just make an 3 objection? 4 I'm just asking you if Dr. Kaley would 5 be the one you could check with. 6 MR. PECK: About what? 7 MR. STEWART: About use of air 8 samplers. I'm not asking you 9 the questions, Adam. 10 MR. PECK: I think we need to get 11 a clear question. Your 12 questions aren't clear. 13 MR. STEWART: Let me just state 14 for the record, Adam, that if 15 you want to make an objection 16 or if you want to advise by 17 some speaking objection your 18 client what to say so that he 19 says what y'all have got on a 20 little written piece of paper 21 somewhere, then you can do 22 that. Page 123 WATER PCB-SD0000013295 MAYASKY 23 MR. PECK: I would instruct you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 Q 13 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 A 22 Q 23 A 153 when he asks you an unclear question that doesn't have a finish to it, like ask Dr. Kaley about that, I will instruct you to ask him what that is. Mr. Mayausky, if you understand it - Adam is having trouble with it. Let's speed up the process. I will try to make it as clear as I can. MR. PECK: Thank you. Sometimes, though, you may catch a question and have a perfect right to answer it even if Adam doesn't. Okay. Were there any people from the community in the meeting? Which meeting is that, please? The meeting that you had in March of 1995 about the west end landfill. The meeting that we had with ADEM? Yeah. No. 1 Q. 2 154 Had any of them been informed about the problem y'all had out there? Page 124 WATER PCB-SD0000013296 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. MAYASKY At the time of that meeting? Yes. No. But very soon thereafter we started to have some community meetings to let people know what we had found. Well, I'm asking you, though, if before the meeting in March of '95 with ADEM, where y'all sought and subsequently got approval for your plan, was there anybody from the community informed. And I believe your answer to that is no. Not at the time of that meeting; but very shortly thereafter, we did. Well, Mr. Mayausky, after y'all got that consent order -Uh-huh (indicating yes). -- you later got another consent order; is that correct? In April -- I think it was April 1996. '96? Yes. 1 Q2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 Q. 155 Now, where were those meetings held and what was that consent order related to, the south end landfill? Those meetings were held at -- I believe they were at the Ramada Inn in Anniston, and -- What was the second part of your question, please? Well , were they related to the south end Page 125 WATER PCB-SD0000013297 MAYASKY 9 landfill? Was that consent order 10 related to the south end - 11 They were related to the sampling work 12 of both ours and the Alabama Department 13 of Public Health around the east end 14 neighborhood. 15 And was the consent order related, 16 though -- subsequent consent order that 17 came about as a result of those meetings 18 related to the remediation work you did 19 to the south end landfill? 20 The consent order was a request to do 21 additional sampling around the east end 22 neighborhood, to expand that to the 23 north end neighborhood, a small amount 156 1 on the west end, and another extension 2 of the east end neighborhood, to sample 3 in those areas. 4 And that's what your conversations were 5 about at the Ramada Inn in Anniston? 6 Who all was in those meetings? 7 Attending that meeting was myself -- I 8 think at that time Alan Faust was there. 9 I can't recall exactly who else was 10 there from Monsanto. But EPA Region 11 Four was there, a representatives of EPA 12 Region Four; representatives of Alabama 13 Department of Public health; ADSTAR, the 14 agencies for toxic substances and Page 126 WATER PCB-SD0000013298 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 MAYASKY disease registry, and ADEM were there. Now, those meetings were meetings held at the Ramada Inn. There was more than one meeting. Y'all had two meetings at least, didn't you? That's the one I remember. And that was at the Ramadain Anniston? The Ramada at the crest ofthe hill there. Isn't that a Ramada Inn? 1 Q2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 A. 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 157 Yeah. Yes. And after that did y'all get the consent order? After that the consent order was signed. By the director of ADEM? I think the director of ADEM signed it. For us Mike Foresman signed it. Okay. And what you have indicated to me is that y'all would -- that related to sampling that y'all were going to do; is that correct? Related to sampling. It also related to, at their suggestion, expanding the property purchase program to Montrose Avenue. Expanding it to Montrose Avenue? Yes. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number Two was marked for Page 127 WATER PCB-SD0000013299 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY identification.) Can you tell me what had taken place - First, let he ask you to identify 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 158 Plaintiffs' Exhibit Two to your deposition. Is that the consent order that was entered in April of '96 -- or March of '96, rather? It says 8 March, I believe - It does say 8 March of '96. So rather than April, as you have previously stated, it wasin March of 1996? March of 1996, yes. Can you tell me what events had taken place that led up to this consent order being entered? At this time we had done sampling of the east end neighborhood and the ditches there in that area and the areas prone to flooding. The Alabama Department of Public Health had come in and done some sampling themselves. And they were working in conjunction with bothADEM and ADSTAR. And they -- Based on the results that they had of soil and dust and blood samplings of residents, they 159 1 had this meeting.They called this Page 128 WATER PCB-SD0000013300 MAYASKY meeting. The EPA, I guess, was really the driver of calling this meeting in Anniston. The EPA was? I believe so. I believe it was the EPA. Now, would you take a look at page two, paragraphs six, seven, and eight, and read over those, please. I want to ask you some questions about those. Okay. Six, seven, and eight? Yes. Now, that indicates that -- in paragraph six -- that according to the Code of Alabama, the department takes certain steps when they find there has been a release of hazardous waste into the environment from a facility; is that correct? That's what it says here, yes, sir. In paragraph seven, it indicates that there were PCBs found in the west end landfill, the east drainage ditch, and the northern drainage ditch; is that 160 correct? Yes, sir. Now, you previously mentioned to us, Mr. Mayausky, that all you had found in water was less than ten parts per billion. It indicated that there were six parts per billion, was the figure Page 129 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 MAYASKY that sticks in your mind. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Mayausky, that y'all had found and also perhaps even the Department of Health had found some fairly high levels of PCB contamination in the soil and the sediment in the east drainage ditch, the northern drainage ditch, and around the west end landfill at this time? In March of 1996 -- by March of '96 we had characterized that there was soil - sedimentation soil in the ditches that contained PCBs, yes, sir. Of fairly high levels; is that correct? Levels. I don't know how you want to define high, but yes, there were levels. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 161 As much as a thousand parts per million? Well, there were some that were about a thousand parts per million, yes, sir. In addition to that, you had also found out that the area that you initially thought was affected was a little more widespread than what y'all had originally discovered; isn't that correct? I'm not sure why you are referring to what we originally discovered. Well, you indicated you originally talked to Tom Wright about some things Page 130 WATER PCB-SD0000013302 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY that y'all had discovered out there at the west end landfill after Alabama Power Company turned up these PCBs and y'all had found some fairly low levels in the surface water and y'all tended to that. These are much higher levels and are of much more concern, are they not, Mr. Mayausky, what y'all are now finding? When I was talking to Tom Wright, I was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 162 talking about water samples, and they were very low levels. And it was in March of 1995 when we subsequently did sedimentation samples all along the north ditch, the east ditch through areas around the plant, and we found some in the sedimentation. Which were much higher than what y'all had originally thought was present; is that not correct, Mr. Mayausky? When I talked to Mr. Wright, at that time the only piece of data I had was some numbers in water, yes. The only thing you knew about? The only thing I knew about. But then you go on over to the order - And would you look at paragraph A under the order itself? Read that, and I want to ask you - Page 131 WATER PCB-SD0000013303 MAYASKY 20 MR. PECK: Paragraph A, did you 21 say? 22 MR. STEWART: Under the order. 23 THE WITNESS: And the numbered 163 1 items underneath? 2 MR. STEWART: Well, just read A. 3 MR. PECK: Well, you can read 4 anything you want, if you 5 want to read the rest, you 6 are welcome to. 7 MR. STEWART: There won't be any 8 trick questions, Adam, so if 9 you want him to read that, 10 that's fine. 11 MR. PECK: I haven't heard one 12 that isn't yet. 13 MR. STEWART: Well, they sound 14 pretty straightforward to me. 15 Okay. The purpose of this order was to 16 minimize the risk of exposure to PCBs to 17 the people who lived in the contaminated 18 area, wasn't it? 19 That was one of the proposals, yes, and 20 also to do additional sampling of the 21 areas we talked about, A, B, C, and D. 22 Which were places where people lived? 23 Some of them were industrialized areas Page 132 WATER PCB-SD0000013304 1 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY 164 where nobody lived, and some were places where people lived. The third part of the order was also to complete anything around the west end landfill. Okay. But the purpose of this consent order was to protect -- The basic purpose of it and the thrust of it was to protect the people who lived in the area? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. It was part of the thrust of it, yes, to take steps to -- as they say, mitigate, minimize the risk of exposure. Is it not a fact, Mr. Mayausky, that when y'all first started dealing with this problem in 1994 you dealt with ADEM? Yes. Our initial discussions were with ADEM, that's correct. And the initial consent order was entered into with the ADEM people only? Yes, sir. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 165 Then all of a sudden you got involved with the health department? Yes, sir. And they did a study. You are familiar with that study, are you not? Page 133 WATER PCB-SD0000013305 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY Which study are you referring to? The health consultation study. Yes. Didn't you get a copy of it? Yes. I did see a copy of it. And that came between the time that you all worked with ADEM on the first consent order and then the time that y'all had this meeting in March of 1996 - Yes, sir. -- and the second consent order? Yes, sir. My recollection of that is that the Alabama Department of Public Health was asked to come into this by ADEM to look at the situation. It's your understanding that ADEM asked the health department to come in? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 166 Yes, sir. Who exactly did you understand at ADEM asked the health department or the State of Alabama to come into this situation, Mr. - Who at ADEM asked? Yes. It might have been John Poole, but I don't know. It's your understanding, then, that John Poole, the head of the land division, Page 134 WATER PCB-SD0000013306 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY asked the health department to come in and do a health consultation? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. I don't know if they asked for a health consultation, but they asked for a consultation from the Alabama Department of Public Health. For what purpose? Because there was a -- they are not, I guess, health experts. They wanted to look for the agency that's the 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 167 recognized health agency for Alabama and ask them to become involved in this situation. To determine if there was a risk to the health of the people who lived around the Monsanto plant? To determine if there was any risk, yes. Now, what is it, Mr. Mayausky, that prevented Monsanto Chemical Company from doing the very same thing when this problem was discovered by Monsanto in 1993? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question, calls for speculation. We went to the Alabama Department of Environmental Management, and they Page 135 WATER PCB-SD0000013307 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY consulted with the Alabama Department of Public Health, the right agency to handle this. No, sir. What I'm asking you, Mr. Mayausky, is what prevented you as plant manager or Mr. Jones or Monsanto 1 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 A. 168 itself from assessing the potential risks to residents of the area in 1993? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question, calls for speculation. 1993? Yeah, when y'all discovered this in 1993. I wasn't there in 1993. I can't speak to that. The water samples were discovered in 1994, was when I first became - After you got back -- After you got here in 1994, what prevented you from doing it, Mr. Mayausky? We went directly to ADEM and talked with them and brought them into it. Mr. Mayausky, is there not some point in time when y'all got consent forms from people who were residents of the Cobb Town and Sweet Valley area and did some testing on property? Yes. Page 136 WATER PCB-SD0000013308 MAYASKY 2 3 4 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 A 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 A 17 Q 18 19 20 A 21 Q 22 A 23 169 That's just a simple piece of paper that gives you the right to go on someone's property and to check that property, isn't it, Mr. Mayausky? To pull samples from that property, yes, sir. And that's something that you could have done in 1993 or Monsanto could have done in 1993 just as easily as you did it in 1996 as a result of this consent order? We did it - MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. It was done in March of 1994. It was done in March of 1994? Yes. Okay. And what did do you about notifying the residents about having blood tests in March of 1994? What did I do then? I did not do - What did Monsanto do? We talked to the Alabama Department of Environmental Management, and they in 1 2 3 Q. 4 170 turn talked to the Alabama Department of Public Health. Did you ask them to talk to the Alabama Department of Public Health? Page 137 WATER PCB-SD0000013309 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY I don't remember specifically asking them. Did you or anybody from Monsanto indicate that there was a health risk and you felt there was a health risk in that area and that they ought to call in the Department of Public Health? We are not medically trained. We are not a medical company, so we asked the Alabama Department of Environmental Management to consult with the health experts of the state, which is the Alabama Department of Public Health. Is it your testimony here today that y'all do not know the dangers of PCBs and what problems it could cause for people? Our own internal people and some external medical consultants we have 1 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 171 consulted with did notsee a reason for concern. Tell me who those people where. Dr. Kaley, Dr. Kimbrough, and Dr. Forrester. And when did y'all contact those people? Well, Kaley right away, absolutely. What did you tell him? Kaley visited the site, looked over the site, looked over the data, and was in Page 138 WATER PCB-SD0000013310 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY regular communications about the situation. The data you're talking about is the data that y'all got from those little health samples; is that right? No. The data referring to - MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. You asked when I first contacted him or when he was first asked, and that was early on. I would assume he was involved right from 1993. He was involved when I came on board in 1994. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 172 Now, who were the other key people involved? Dr. Ranada Kimbrough. And where is Dr. Ranada Kimbrough located? Washington, D.C. Who contacted Dr. Kimbrough? Dr. Kaley. What did you understand was provided to - Sampling results. At that time when we talked with her, we had some soil sample results and sedimentation results, some of the surface water results. Those were shared with her. She actually came to visit the site and walk the Page 139 WATER PCB-SD0000013311 17 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 22 23 Q. MAYASKY neighborhood to see what the site looked like. And she made a determination from that? That there were minimal routes of exposure for the people who lived there and she wasn't concerned about it. Okay. Had any blood tests been 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 A. 19 20 21 Q. 22 173 performed on any people as of that day? No, sir. Had any dust or soil samples been taken from the property at that date? Not to my knowledge, no, sir. Had any air sampling been done as of that date? Not to my knowledge, no, sir. So she had none of that information? No, sir. When you later got that information, did you ever provide it to her? I did not. I don't know if it was, but I did not. Do you have any idea as to whether or not any of that information was passed on to Dr. Kaley? I know Dr. Kaley has seen some of the blood results from the residents next to the plant, yes, sir. Has he changed his opinion since that time? Page 140 WATER PCB-SD0000013312 23 A. No, sir. MAYASKY 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 174 He is an employee of Monsanto, and he is standing pat on what he originally told you? Yes, sir. Who is the other person that you talked to? Dr. Forrester from the University of Alabama. Dr. Forrester? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Is that the University of Alabama in Birmingham? Yes, sir. Now, did y'all hire Dr. Forrester from the University of Alabama in Birmingham? Did Monsanto hire him? Yes. I do not know the details, if he's a consultant or not. I know he did come out to visit the plant. He basically did the same tour that Dr. Kimbrough did, where he had data, walked the neighborhood, looked at the situation. 1 Q. 2 A. 175 Now, when exactly did this take place? Kimbrough, I would say, would be May Page 141 WATER PCB-SD0000013313 MAYASKY time frame of '94 -- MR. PECK: '95, you mean? THE WITNESS: '95. Sorry. Thank you. '95. '94 is when I got there. And Forrester was more fall of '95. Fall of '95? Yes. And what department did Dr. Forrester work in? I think it was industrial health, but I'm not sure. Industrial health? I think it was. Did he make any affidavits for Monsanto Chemical Company in connection with any litigation that had been filed against Monsanto as a result - Not to my knowledge. I'm not aware of any. Did he make any trips to talk to any 176 medical personnel who were treating patients in the Anniston Area? Not to my knowledge. Who was it that Monsanto got to go to the Calhoun County Medical Association and talk to them about PCBs? When you say this right now, it's the first time I've known that was done. I 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. MAYASKY did not know that was done. Okay. I'm just asking you. Let me ask you this: Was it done to your knowledge? No, it was not done to my knowledge. Was it done during the time you were here to your knowledge? No. Tell me, if you would, if ADEM or the health department tested in any area outside of what Monsanto suggested that they test in? ADEM? Uh-huh (indicating yes). Or the Alabama Department of Public 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 13 14 Q. 177 Health? Right. We never suggested that they sample anywhere. They basically told us where they were going to sample. All right. Was that the information that was attached to this - No. That was --- attached to this -- attachment one to the - These attachments to this consent order were the areas they suggested we do additional samplings on. They suggested you do additional Page 143 WATER PCB-SD0000013315 15 16 A. 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 sampling? MAYASKY Yes. But we never suggested to them that they sample anybody or anything. So did y'all test on Boynton Avenue? Boynton? Which page are you on? Attachment one to the consent order. Let me just ask you. Did y'all test on all the streets that they have indicated here, West Eighth Street, 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 178 Ferron, Montrose, West Sixth Street, and Cobb Town Road? I can't refer to this attachment. But if you refer to the tables, the general areas that are in the tables, I know that we sampled in those areas. My colleague here said attachment one is where y'all have already had positive hits. And then attachment two apparently is the area they want y'all to test further. MR. PECK: I would not assume that's correct. I don't know that's correct. I believe it's correct. The reason I'm hesitant to answer about attachment one is I get confused on some of the street names. And I'm a little clearer if you'll look at a map. I know that we sampled north of the railroad Page 144 WATER PCB-SD0000013316 MAYASKY 21 tracks, which is what that area is, or 22 this area along Zinn Parkway or this 23 area -- I'm more aware -- 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. 179 All of the areas that are marked to the attachments to the order is where y'all tested? Yes. MR. PECK: The maps? The maps that are attached? Yes. Did y'all find -- Did y'all get positive hits for PCBs in all of those areas? We had some negative readings and some positive hits, yes. And can you tell me what the readings were generally? No. I don't remember the details or the numbers, but some were -- There was - The way the sampling was done was there was a screening test of plus or minus ten percent that was based on an ami noacid analysis. So some of them were just merely screening tests, plus or minus ten parts per million, and some were actual quantitative results. Can you give me the highest reading that 1 you got? Page 145 180 WATER PCB-SD0000013317 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 MAYASKY MR. PECK: Object to the form. In these fourareas? Yes. No. I don't recall what the highest reading was. I could only speculate. Did Garrity and Miller do those tests for you? Yes, sir. As a result of the test results that you got, did you do the remediation? We movedforward with remediation of some of these areas and also expanded - to help us with the remediation, expanded the property purchase program to some of these areas. Okay. Now, tell me about this property purchase program. Who came up with the property purchase program, Mr. Mayausky? It was -- The idea originated as something from our remediation department. They had seen other companies do these sorts of programs. 181 1 So we contracted with a firm known as 2 Prudential to help us to develop the 3 program. And they have a lot of 4 experience in these types of programs, 5 and they came in and scoped it for us 6 and helped us to define a property 7 purchase program. Page 146 WATER PCB-SD0000013318 MAYASKY Who at Prudential worked with you on that? The main contact was a gentleman by the name of John Mitchell. And Prudential handled the relocation program for Monsanto and put a person here? Yes. They had -- They had two people here, actually. Now, is it not fair to say that the property purchase program was basically moved by the areas that y'all needed to remediate? The property purchase program, if I understand your question correctly, was originally proposed so that we could 182 acquire land to do remediation of the east end neighborhood. Basically why you put it in place? Yes, sir. And also to avoid EPA coming in here and taking over the site? We were working with ADEM to develop a remediation plan, and we were building our plan so that whatever land we could acquire we could move forward with that. I don't recall any discussions about EPA taking over the site, no, sir. Don't you recall, say, earlier -- And Page 147 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY maybe I misunderstood -- that EPA for the first time was involved in the meeting in March of 1996? In March of 1996, they were involved, yes, sir. MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. And they were concerned about, apparently, thepeople who lived in the area? 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 183 They asked for the meeting. I don't know if that was the driving concern for them, but they asked for the meeting, yes, sir. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number Three was marked for identification.) This is Plaintiffs' Exhibit Three. This is a letter. And if you would, Mr. Mayausky, if you will read it. It is from a Myron D. Lair, with the EPA, Region Four, to Mr. Cooper, Dan Cooper, who works at ADEM. Have you read the letter, Mr. Mayausky? I'm almost done. Okay. It indicates in the second paragraph, does it not, that the EPA was concerned about PCB contamination, widespread PCB Page 148 WATER PCB-SD0000013320 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY contamination in the residential areas around this Anniston plant -- Weren't they? Yes, sir. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 184 They had asked y'all to relocate citizens in that area, otherwise EPA would come in and take over the site; isn't that correct? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. The document speaks for itself. What it says is that they would -- the Alabama Department of Environment Management Program would take the lead and order Monsanto to relocate the affected residents and conduct additional sampling. To relocate the residents? (Witness nods head affirmatively.) Because of PCB contamination? It says that they would -- that ADEM should take the lead and ask us to relocate the residents and to conduct additional sampling. if you didn't take that action, what did you understand from reading this letter, Mr. Mayausky, would happen? Page 149 WATER PCB-SD0000013321 MAYASKY 185 1 It says that the EPA agrees that this 2 should be a state lead if we agree to 3 this; however, if we don't, then they 4 would likely initiate the appropriate 5 actions to protect the public health and 6 the environment. I don't know what 7 those -- what those appropriate actions 8 would be. 9 That means at the very least, 10 Mr. Mayausky, that the EPA would step in 11 to a situation where y'all had otherwise 12 been dealing with ADEM? 13 You would have to ask EPA what they 14 thought appropriate actions were. I 15 don't know. 16 Let me ask you this, Mr. Mayausky: Does 17 this site -- Does the relocation program 18 referred to in Mr. Lair's letter to 19 Mr. Cooper say, "Buy property on which 20 you remediate the land only," or does it 21 say, "Relocate residents who might be in 22 danger of health and safety"? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 186 1 the question. The document 2 speaks for itself. 3 What it says is it says that they should 4 order Monsanto to relocate the affected 5 residents. Page 150 WATER PCB-SD0000013322 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY So if someone was affected on an area where y'all didn't plan to build a catchment basin, one would take from that, just reading the letter, that y'all should relocate that person? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. The document speaks for itself. I don't know what they mean by affected residents. But you all didn't do that, did you, Mr. Mayausky? What y'all did is what you previously told me. Y'all bought property you needed for your purposes, which was to build a catchment basin and to remediate some of the property east of Monsanto's plant around that drainage ditch. That's exactly what you did, 1 2 A. 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 Q. 187 isn't it,Mr. Mayausky? We bought property in the east end neighborhood and the north side neighborhood. And unless someone would sell their property to you, you wouldn't relocate a soul, would you, Mr. Mayausky? In the property purchase program where we were buying property, we offered to relocate people. No, sir, Mr. Mayausky. Listen to my Page 151 WATER PCB-SD0000013323 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY question. Unless they sold their property to you, you never relocated a person, unless it was in the little demolition phase. That's the only time you ever did it; isn't that right, Mr. Mayausky? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. I'm trying to understand the question. The question is very simple, Mr. Mayausky. I'm asking you a very simple question. Unless they sold their 1 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 188 property to you, you didn't relocate anybody, did you, unless it was just in that little demolition phase? We had people we temporarily relocated. Who? I do not remember their names, but I was told that there were people that accepted temporary relocation. Who told you that? Alan Faust. Can you tell me a person, sitting here today, that y'all relocated, who refused to sell you their property and had a suit against you? I don't understandthe question. if someone refusedto sell their property that they lived in to Monsanto Page 152 WATER PCB-SD0000013324 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY and filed a lawsuit against you, tell me one of those people., Mr. Mayausky, sitting here today, that under this grand relocation program y'all relocated. I'm sorry. Can you be a little more 189 1 succinct in your question? I'm very 2 unclear. I'm sorry. 3 Q. That's all right, sir. 4 A. I'm from a little coal mining town in 5 Pennsylvania. I'm sorry. I'm a little 6 slow on this sort of thing. 7 Q. I may be phrasing the questions wrong. 8 And I will be glad to rephrase it. Can 9 you tell me sitting here today - 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. -- any person out of theseresidents, in 12 the area around the plant, that refused 13 to sell their property to Monsanto that 14 y'all relocated temporarily? 15 A. No, I cannot tell you. I do not know 16 the residents' names that were offered 17 temporary relocation or ultimately 18 whether they sold to us or not. I was 19 only told that there were some residents 20 that took us up on the offer of 21 temporary location. I do not know the 22 outcome of the eventual sale of their 23 property to us. Page 153 WATER PCB-SD0000013325 MAYASKY 1 Q- 2 3 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. 190 Do you know, Mr. Mayausky, sitting here today, that the program of relocation was tied to the ultimate sale of the property to Monsanto? The program was designed that when a person sold property to us that we would take possession of that property and they would move out. And in the time frame, say, when they didn't have a permanent residence, y'all would temporarily relocate them? That was my understanding, yes. What if they didn't sell? if they didn't sell, we then moved to offering them to clean their residence. Clean their residence? Yes. And how many people do you know of, Mr. Mayausky, was the cleaning program offered to residents? How many was it offered to? Yes. I can't say how many it was offered to. 1 Q- 2 A. 3 4 191 There was a cleaning program offered? Yes. MR. STEWART: Okay. Mark this. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number Page 154 WATER PCB-SD0000013326 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY Four was marked for identification.) Let me show you Plaintiffs' Exhibit Four. Is that the cleaning program you are talking about? Sir, this is the first time I've seen this document. That's the first time you have seen the document? Yes, sir. So you don't know whether it's a cleaning program you offered or not? Well, it says Cleaning Guidelines for Residents, so I assume we did offer it, but this is the first time I've seen it. So as the plant manager during the time -- Was it offered during the time you were here? Yes. 1 Q- 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 A. 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 192 Who was to do the cleaning? I don't know. I don't know who we contracted with. Who would have handled that at the pi ant? Alan Faust. Okay. Would Robert Jones have had any involvement in it at all? I can't say for certain. MR. STEWART: Okay. I'm going to Page 155 WATER PCB-SD0000013327 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY take that back, then. Does Exhibit Four look consistent with what you understood the cleaning program was? For what I understood, yeah. This is what they were talking about, going in and cleaning a person's residence. MR. STEWART: We will offer all those exhibits so far. (Plaintiffs' Exhibits Numbers One, Two, Three, and Four were offered and attached as exhibits hereto.) 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 10 A. 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 193 Now, Mr. Mayausky - MR. PECK: Let's take a quick bathroom break. (A break was taken.) Now, you were telling me about site work -- I mean, visits around this area that you may -- When did you start those? Visits to - MR. CUNNINGHAM: Door to door. Oh, door-to-door visits. The first time I remember going out was March, late February or early March of 1995. Tell me -- At that point in time you all had the first consent order? No. The first consent order was March of 1995. It may have been around the Page 156 WATER PCB-SD0000013328 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY same time, but I don't know when I actually went out if I had them in hand or not. Where did you go? Two general areas. One was the east end neighborhood, out in that neighborhood, and one was the houses that faced 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 194 immediately the west end landfill along -- I believe it's called Adams Street. And did you visit every house on the street or just - Went door to door knocking. And if I found somebody home, I tried to talk with them, if I didn't, I'd stick a business card, usually with a note, that they could call me if they wanted to. And what exactly did you tell the people when you got there? The west end neighbors, the ones along Adams Street -- I knew that the work was going to be beginning on the west end landfill. I wanted to go tell them that they would be seeing lots of heavy equipment and what that was all about, that we were closing the landfill, that they would see activities, if they had any concerns about noise, dust, or anything like that, to give me a call. Okay. And did you visit in this time Page 157 WATER PCB-SD0000013329 MAYASKY 23 frame the Mars Hill Missionary Baptist 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 195 Church? In this approximate time frame, yes, sir. And who did you visit with there? Rev. Weatherly, Deacon Bowie, and Deacon Freeman. And how is it that you recall that you visited with them? I remember the first one -- the first visit I actually wrote some notes, when I returned to my office, of the subject of theconversation. Did you do that contemporaneously, Mr. Mayausky, withyour visit? Yes. Are you in the habit of doing that? I deal with lots of information, and sometimes it's better if I write things down so that I have a record of it and capture it. And Iwrote down that meeting, I remember. And how many other people's meetings did you write down, where you went by and 1 2 A. 196 talked to other people? The only other one I remember formally Page 158 WATER PCB-SD0000013330 MAYASKY documenting was the meeting with Mars Hill -- Not Mars Hill. Bethel Baptist Church, Rev. Fields. So you also wrote down about your meeting with Rev. Fields? Yes, sir. Exactly when did that meeting take pi ace? About the same time. I remember the Mars Hill meeting was on a Sunday. I believe we met after services. And the Rev. Fields meeting was in the evening, because he worked, and he met me after his other job. Besides being a reverend, he also worked, and he met me after work at his office at the church. Can you remember what you told the people at Mars Hill? I remember two meetings with them. You remember two? Yes. And the first one -- 197 MR. PECK: He said two meetings in March? THE WITNESS: Two meetings in March. Introducing myself, telling them who I was, telling them that we were doing some sampling in the area, we had found the water readings for PCBs, told them MAYASKY 9 that we had made PCBs in the past time 10 of the plant, '60s and '70s time frame, 11 that we would be doing more sampling, 12 trying to understand that, and that we 13 didn't know exactly where things were 14 going to go, but the sampling would help 15 us decide what we were going to do, that 16 we were working with the Alabama 17 Department of Environmental Management 18 on the whole issue. 19 And that's the substance of what you 20 told them on the first meeting? 21 First or second meeting. They kind of 22 run together. I think that's the 23 essence in the first meeting, yeah. 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 198 I want to be clear about what you told them, because it's my understanding that this consent order, the first consent order was signed sometime in March - Uh-huh (indicating yes). Was that fairly -- signed fairly early in March? Right. The consent order? The consent order was signed the first week of March, to my recollection. And there is a possibility that you perhaps did not discuss on the first occasion all that you just mentioned; Page 160 WATER PCB-SD0000013332 MAYASKY 15 you might have covered it in the second 16 meeting with the folks at Mars Hill? 17 I think in the first meeting I covered 18 pretty much what I just said, and in the 19 second meeting I went back and asked - 20 and sought permission to go onto the 21 church property to do sampling and 22 actually took a sampling agreement with 23 me. And that was more like the third 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 199 week of March. That's in March? That's also in March, yes. And it would be your testimony here today that Garrity and Miller or whoever y'all had doing your testing did that testing sometime in March or thereabouts of 1995? Yeah. It could have been -- Yeah, March, March or April, sometime in - Of '95? Yeah. For sedimentation samples. And you told the people at Mars Hill that you meet with on that date, Zeb Freeman and Andrew Bowie and Rev. Weatherly, that y'all had manufactured PCBs and you found PCBs in the water samples that you've previously mentioned? Yes. Page 161 WATER PCB-SD0000013333 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY Is that about the same thing you were telling Mr. Wright? Yes, about the same information I was 1 2Q 3 4A 5 6 7Q 8 9 10 A 11 Q 12 A 13 Q 14 15 16 A 17 18 Q 19 A 20 21 22 Q 23 200 sharing. Are you familiar with a Mr. Cheatwood with ADEM? Now that you have mentioned his name, what comes to mind is that he was an engineer that worked for ADEM. Okay. And is it -- Did you have any contact with him, Mr. Mayausky, before you met with these people at the church? Not that I recall. Not that you - I may have, but I don't recall. Okay. Did you have any more information than you've just mentioned to us at the time you met with these people? At the first meeting at the church or the second meeting at the church? The first. At the first meeting I think that's all the information I think I had at that point in time. At the second meeting of the church, where you got the content form, what was 1 the purpose in that meeting, Page 162 201 WATER PCB-SD0000013334 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY Mr. Mayausky? At that time, after meeting with ADEM, they requested that we sample the water as it -- basically on our property down on the -- what would be the north side of the church, and we found some PCBs in water there. So it became apparent to us that we had to do some sampling for sedimentation in soils all along on that east end property that was ours, plus perhaps would have to go into some of the neighborhoods. So I was there to specifically get permission from the church to do some sampling on their properties. And is it your distinct recollection that you had told these people at the church, before you got that consent form, that y'all were looking for PCBs? Yes, sir. And that's because you got this memo? 1 A. 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 202 No. I remember other details of the conversation too. Okay. Tell me about it. I remember Rev. Weatherly -- I said - It may have been in the second meeting, but I remember talking with him about that we would be sampling the ditch; if Page 163 WATER PCB-SD0000013335 MAYASKY 8 we found material in the ditch, we would 9 move to remediate, that remediation 10 might include picking up the soil and 11 moving it. I remember Rev. Weatherly 12 saying, "Does that mean there is a 13 possibility of covering up the ditch and 14 closing it?" I remember saying that 15 that would be a distinct possibility. 16 He was very grateful that we would close 17 the ditch because it had always been an 18 eyesore for them. At the church there 19 was a concern because there was such a 20 deep ditch. 21 I remember discussions somewhat 22 about we didn't know where this was 23 going, but if we needed to do something 203 1 to the church property, that we would 2 work with them on the church property. 3 I remember, "Would that include perhaps 4 relocation of the church," and we 5 discussed that, yeah, that would be a 6 possibility, somewhere we may want to 7 relocate the church. 8 Is that in the second meeting or the 9 first meeting? 10 I believe it was the second meeting when 11 we talked about that. 12 Is it the second meeting you made notes 13 of - Page 164 WATER PCB-SD0000013336 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY The first. I remember in the discussions of the relocation that there was, you know, just, you know, very high levels. What else -- I remember that Rev. Weatherly thanked us -- it was either in the first meeting or the second meeting -- for his relationship with Monsanto and allowing us to use - us allowing them to use our property for their annual Easter egg hunt. 1 Q- 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 204 Y'all's property for the Easter - Yeah. At the time I thought it was the piece of property next door, but I subsequently found out that when they actually used our property at one incident it was the property immediately adjacent to the plant on our side of Clydesdale. In Easter of '96 they were out there using that property for their Easter egg hunt. In those conversations I always thought it was the clay pit immediately next to their plant. But it came up that they -- that some of our operators observed them using the property right next to the plant on Clydesdale. Okay. Easter of '96, that was. Was that all in your notes? Page 165 WATER PCB-SD0000013337 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY NO, no. It's just my recall. Well, Mr. Mayausky, at this time were you relocating people? No. At that time we weren't relocating 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 205 people. We were just trying to get access agreements to sample and trying to understand the problem. Okay. Now, Mr. Mayausky, you've talked about trying to make an assessment of it and trying to make a determination as to what the problem was and what y'all wanted to do. I assume from your statements that you had no other information at this point in time other than what you have previously told Mr. Cunningham and me here today - I think so. -- and the Court here today. Just those little samples that y'all had taken of the water and the drainage ditch and the western landfill over there and - I honestly can struggle to remember if we had sediment results at that point in time. MR. PECK: Are you talking about the first meeting now or the second meeting? Page 166 WATER PCB-SD0000013338 MAYASKY 206 1 THE WITNESS: At the second 2 meeting. I can't remember - 3 But you all had made a determination at 4 some point in time during the '80s that 5 you had a problem, hadn't you? 6 I just remember that we had -- we had 7 sedimentation samples, because I also 8 talked with them at the second meeting 9 about there was a -- there was -- in the 10 ditch on our property there was a 11 sedimentation that had relatively high 12 levels - 13 About two hundred and twenty thousand 14 parts per million? 15 -- that we wanted to go in and do 16 something about. And I remember telling 17 them that I thought we could get our 18 equipment in there to do that by going 19 down the road in front of the church, up 20 through the field that was beside them, 21 and back in through the woods so that we 22 wouldn't have to disturb the church 23 property to do that. I told them that 207 1 was back there and we wanted to get into 2 that site. We wanted to get that soil 3 dug up and put down a polyethylene 4 liner, which was the action that we 5 agreed to with the Alabama Department of Page 167 WATER PCB-SD0000013339 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY Environmental Management. Actually, that's the proposal that y'all made to the Alabama Department of Environmental Management, and they really didn't make any change in that any more than they made any change to your western landfill and your southern? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. To my recollection they did not make any major changes to what we proposed to do. That's just what Monsanto proposed to do? Right. When is the next time you met with the church? I remember a meeting in July. Of what year? 208 1 A. 1995. 2 Q. And who all was at that meeting? By the 3 way, who was at the second meeting? You 4 mentioned Mr. Bowie and Mr. Freeman 5 and - 6 A. Mr. Weatherly. 7 Q. -- Mr. Weatherly at the first. 8 A. The second meeting was afterservices 9 again, because I distinctly remember 10 Rev. Weatherly had a habit that 11 surprised me, quite frankly, being Page 168 WATER PCB-SD0000013340 MAYASKY 12 around ministers, some as I grew up and 13 whatnot. I remember going to his 14 office, and he would take off his 15 vespers as quickly as he could and 16 immediately start to smoke like crazy, 17 because he was a very heavy smoker. I 18 just remember that it was after 19 services, and I remember him taking off 20 his vespers. 21 Did that offend you, Mr. Mayausky? 22 No, not necessarily. It's just that I 23 have not had a lot of time with -- 209 1 personal relationships with reverends, 2 to see that side of somebody. Usually 3 it's a very professional type role. 4 Then the second meeting was again 5 after church, because I remember that 6 same exact thing happening. And at that 7 meeting we talked about setting up a 8 meeting for later on with a larger 9 deacon body. And to my recollection 10 that larger deacon meeting occurred in 11 July. And I believe it was right around 12 the 4th of July, very soon after that. 13 Now, it was an evening meeting, because 14 Rev. Weatherly wasn't there, and only 15 the deacons were there. 16 What did you discuss at that meeting? 17 At that meeting -- It was in July, and Page 169 WATER PCB-SD0000013341 MAYASKY 18 we were all ready to -- doing some 19 sampling, had some sedimentation 20 results. We had already begun to 21 discuss offering the property purchase 22 program. We hadn't formalized the plan 23 at that point in time, but we had 210 1 already begun to talk about we would be 2 making offers to the residents in that 3 area for possible relocation. 4 I remember specifically that 5 wanted they to -- they offered to go out 6 and begin communication on behalf of us 7 to the residents. And I said, "No. I 8 think that should come from us when the 9 time comes." And I sort of let them - 10 To use a phrase, I sort of left them 11 peek under the kimono a little bit and 12 told them we were thinking about this 13 property purchase program but asked them 14 to keep it quiet because we hadn't 15 formalized the program yet, the details 16 of it yet, but I knew it would be a 17 program of appraisals on properties and 18 then some premiums offered on top of 19 those appraisals, and I'm sure we can 20 talk about the details of the program. 21 So at that point in time you all had 22 your plans made about what you were 23 going to do to the property, is that Page 170 WATER PCB-SD0000013342 MAYASKY 1 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. 211 right, in July? We were formulating the plan, as I would say, at that point. Didn't you have boards that you showed to the deacons at the meeting that you had with the -- the third meeting you had with them? No. In the third meeting I remember telling them that we were talking about build a sedimentation pond. I did not show them anything at that meeting. It was a fall meeting in which I remember Reverend -- or Deacon Bowie saying that the Reverend wanted to meet and talk about what might be some of the plans. It was more of a fall meeting that I took in some definitive plans of some potential sedimentation ponds that we might build. I took over three proposals. Wasn't one of them going to be at the church site there? There were three potentials, yes, sir. 212 1 One was -- They were full-size drawings 2 that I carried in. And one was a 3 drawing that showed a pond on what 4 was now -- We call it the clay pit. if Page 171 WATER PCB-SD0000013343 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY you will bear with me, the clay pit was the area right next to the plant -- a large pond on the clay pit with a smaller pond a little bit downstream of that. One opportunity was a very large pond that basically did cover the area where the church was. And the third one was a smaller pond on the clay pit and then a larger pond over on our side of Clydesdale in the lot -- the same lot we were talking about earlier that they used for the Easter egg hunt. When you didn't get the church, you went to another plan; is that correct? That was our intention all along, that we would modify the plan based on what properties we could obtain, yes, sir. And that's really the purpose, as I stated earlier or asked you earlier, of 1 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 10 213 the relocation program, to acquire property that you wanted to remediate as part of the remediation process. Yes, sir. The cheapest way to go, wasn't it, Mr. Mayausky? I don't know if it was the cheapest way to go, but we would adjust our plans. I didn't see all the analyses to say, "if we acquired this piece of land, it would Page 172 WATER PCB-SD0000013344 MAYASKY 11 be cheaper; or if we acquired that piece 12 of land, it would be cheaper." It was 13 just what land we could acquire and what 14 can we do that would help us in our 15 pians. 16 When, if ever, did you or anybody from 17 Monsanto explain to the people who were 18 the residents -- first explain to the 19 people who were the residents of the 20 neighborhood that surrounded the plant 21 of the dangers that PCBs might present 22 to those people? 23 When I went out in March to obtain 214 1 access agreements, we talked about PCBs. 2 I wouldn't say necessarily talked about 3 dangers at that point in time, but - 4 When did you ever? 5 I definitively remember talking about 6 that at the community meetings we held 7 on October 4th, 5th. We had community 8 meetings, one at Mars Hill and one at 9 Bethel Baptist, in which we talked about 10 we had consulted with internal and 11 external medical experts and made 12 available -- if anybody had concerns 13 about health, we gave them a contact 14 list that listed Dr. Forrester, 15 Dr. Kimbrough, and Dr. Hughes from the 16 Alabama Department of Public Health. Page 173 WATER PCB-SD0000013345 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY Did you pay Dr. Forrester for the trip down here? DidMonsanto? Again, I don't know. I really don't know. This plant didn't pay it. It would have come - It would have come from the remediation. 1 Q- 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 215 Would the same thing be true of Dr. Kimbrough? Yes. MR. PECK: if any payment was made. THE WITNESS: if any payment was made. You mean, they got on a plane and flew down here just out of the goodness of their hearts, or do you think, Mr. Mayausky, sitting here today that they were probably paid? I can only speculate, but I would assume as professionals that their per diems were paid. Okay. And those are the people that you basically referred these people to for the first time for health reasons and risks in October of 1995? Yes, sir. And that's after y'all had done fairly extensive testing beginning as far back, Page 174 WATER PCB-SD0000013346 MAYASKY 23 perhaps, maybe, as 1993 -- 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 216 Wei 1, I'd like --- to your knowledge? Yes, sir. I'd like to qualify that, though. As I went around to residents and as they asked questions, I would try to answer the questions as best I could, if an individual person brought up an issue about medical concerns, I would try to get their questions answered or provide them with -- At that time Dr. Hughes was not involved, but I provided them with Dr. Kimbrough's phone number. I don't even think Dr. Forrester was. But as they came on line, each of those individuals came on line, I would give them as a contact that a resident or a minister or anybody could talk to. To your knowledge is your trip in the neighborhood beginning in March, if it began there, beginning in March of 1995, the first time anybody from Monsanto went to the neighborhoods and told the 1 2 A. 217 neighbors what the problems were? It began in March of 1995 because of the Page 175 WATER PCB-SD0000013347 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY access agreements. I know that's when I went out. And it was probably the first attempt during my tenure there that somebody was out in the community. But as I was going around, I was told by people that they had contact with prior Monsanto people. And PCBs? Well, about any issue. They didn't specify PCB. Rev. Weatherly knew the prior plant manager at Monsanto and said he talked with them about using the property, so I assumed he must have talked with somebody. What I'm asking you specifically about, Mr. Mayausky, as you sit here today, if you know of anybody in your category as a plant manager or in Dr. Kaley's category or a hired employee like Dr. Kimbrough who went out and visited the neighbors and talked to them about 1 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 218 PCB contamination or the need to go get health checks and things like that. No, sir, I do not. I do not know of anybody doing that, no. Before you did it? Before I did it, no, sir. Tell me, if you would, exactly what the remediation plan was for the south end Page 176 WATER PCB-SD0000013348 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. landfill. MAYASKY I can't answer that question. You don't know? I don't know. Were you not here when the plan was formulated? No, sir. It may have been in formulation as I was transitioning, but I have no knowledge. Do you have any idea about what the problem was? No, sir. I mean - Do you know the contaminants that are buried there? No, sir. 1 Q- 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 12 13 14 219 You don't even know that PCBs are buried there, whether it's buried there or not? No, sir. Well, how it is, Mr. Mayausky, that you were skilled enough to go out and talk to these people about the problem if you don't even know what it was? if you recall what I said while I was talking to them, I was telling them we were trying to do sampling, the need to do sampling, and offering them medical assistance if they had medical-related questions. I was not proposing to be a medical expert. Page 177 WATER PCB-SD0000013349 MAYASKY 15 So what you were basically out there for 16 was to get access permits so that you 17 could get Garrity and Miller onto their 18 property to do testing? 19 And then to give them a name and a face 20 and a business card, if they had further 21 questions, of somebody within Monsanto 22 they could cal 1. 23 You were just doing PR, then, weren't 220 1 you, basically, for Monsanto? 2 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 3 I was doing what I would call community 4 outreach, yes, sir. 5 In an effort to get their cooperation so 6 you could get on their property and do 7 the testing? 8 And to provide a service for them and a 9 face and name and a number that they 10 could contact if they had any questions. 11 And then try to get this problem sort of 12 swept under the rug as cheaply as you 13 could. Isn't that basically what you 14 were doing, Mr. Mayausky? 15 No. I was trying to give them a name 16 and number if they had further questions 17 and to get access to their property to 18 do some sampling. 19 Now, Mr. Mayausky, can you name me one 20 piece of property that y'all got an Page 178 WATER PCB-SD0000013350 MAYASKY 21 access agreement to that y'all didn't 22 contemplate needing for remediation or 23 to meet EPA's requirements? 1 A. 2 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 221 Is there any property that we eventually -- Can you ask the question differently? Can you name one piece of property sitting here today, Mr. Mayausky, that you got an agreement, an access agreement, signed by the owner of the property, that y'all didn't either need for reclamation purposes or to meet the requirements that were set out for y'all by ADEM or EPA? Yes. I would say some of the properties that were closer up to the commercial properties on the far end, some of the residential properties up there. Which properties were they? When you say far end, are you talking east, west? Up near where the pawn shop is at, those properties on that end. Why is it that you got access agreements there? We wanted to sample to understand the situation, to see if there was a need to 1 do anything up there. Page 179 222 WATER PCB-SD0000013351 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY And what did you determine? I recall very low levels, if any, that were ever found there. And you made a determination there wasn't anything you were going to do? We eventually bought some of those properties, because we went with the approach that in the residential property purchase program we didn't feel like we should exclude those properties, that they were within a boundary bounded by Clydesdale and Tenth Street. So we couldn't concentrate on this low ground that we needed, that we would like to have. We needed to offer it to all of the residents in that area, including some that were more upgrade. Now, back to the south landfill. So you're telling me you didn't even know what the ultimate determination was going to be that was going to be done? No, sir. Because at the time during my 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 223 tenure there we were still dealing with building the sedimentation pond and doing the work on the east end, and the south landfill only started after I 1 eft. Okay. So on the east end, what did you all -- in addition to building the Page 180 WATER PCB-SD0000013352 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 MAYASKY catchment basin that you subsequently built, what else did you understand y'all were going to do? Try to purchase as much of the property as we could, and then based on that we would work with the remaining residents who were there or facilities that were there; and any required remediation that ADEM directed us to do, we would take care of. Okay. On the east end? On the east end. And does that extend on over to Zinn Drive or Montrose or any of that area over there? We did sampling on Zinn Drive and only 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 12 13 224 found a few readings of PCBs in soil. What about - Generally most of them were negative or non-detects. What about Montrose? Montrose, in soil we found very low levels there also. When you say low levels, what were the levels that you found on Zinn Drive? As I recall, less than ten parts per million. But there were a couple of hits on Zinn Drive. I don't remember what they were. Page 181 WATER PCB-SD0000013353 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY Fairly significant hits? I don't remember the exact numbers. And on Montrose what did you find? Again, my recollection is most were: less than ten parts per million. Well, do you understand actionable parts per million in soil to be ten? Is that what you understand? My understanding -- And this is a source of contention with ADEM, and I never 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 225 have gotten a clear definitive answer of what it should be. But yes, my understanding is it is ten. From whom? ADEM. ADEM tells you ten? Yes. Have y'all pushed for the ten yourself? No, sir. What's the figure you all have pushed for? I didn't push for any figure. We asked them what should be the level. And the best they were able to tell us was ten. There was some discussions about fifty on industrial property, but ten on residential property. Okay. General use property, is I think how Page 182 WATER PCB-SD0000013354 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY they actually put it. And where did ADEM indicate they got that particular standard? I'm sorry. I don't recal1. I just 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 23 226 remember somebody saying that. Do you know at all if there were any fairly significant levels of PCB found in the blood of people who lived either on Montrose or on Zinn Drive? Yes. Only from what I've read in the newspaper. But I remember one particular person who was quoted in the newspaper saying he had two hundred parts per billion in his blood. And you understood that was a fairly significant level of PCBs? Yes. MR. PECK: Parts per billion? THE WITNESS: I said parts per billion. Did that cause you any concern? I was confused about how it got there. I certainly didn't understand it. I can only go back to the Alabama Department of Public Health, again, told us that generally the concern was less than fifty parts per billion and was not a Page 183 WATER PCB-SD0000013355 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. MAYASKY 227 necessary cause for concern. But they were concerned about anything above fifty parts per billion. When did they tell you that? It seems I read that or heard that in some conversation. And who exactly at the department told you that? I'm very fuzzy on who told me that. I would guess, speculate that it would be Dr. Hughes. Okay. You all have provided us with a consent form and with some notes that you had made at some point in time. Were those the notes that you made at the -- provided it in discovery, and it has got your signature on it. It talks about a meeting, the notes do -- about meeting with Rev. Weatherly and Zeb Freeman andAndrew Bowie. Yes. That was the first meeting. That's the very first meeting you had? Yes. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. Andthe consent form that was signed after that was signed - Two Sundays after that. Two Sundays after that? Yes, sir. Page 184 228 WATER PCB-SD0000013356 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY And that's your testimony here today. It didn't happen in the fall of the year; it happened in the March - The consent order was signed - MR. PECK: Do you mean the access agreement? The access agreement was signed in March. And those notes were made about a meeting that took place about two weeks before? Two weeks prior to that, yes, sir. And the testing was done in that time frame? I do remember -- This is where I get a little fuzzy. But I do remember talking to them at one point in time -- I thought it was the second meeting -- 229 1 about access to their property, that we 2 wanted to get in there and clean that 3 up. And I thought we could come in from 4 the back side. And I think it was in 5 that second meeting, so I must have 6 known about the higher level spot that 7 was on our property but right 8 immediately behind the church. 9 So you wanted to -- When you went in 10 there to test, did the people park their 11 vehicles on the property of the church? Page 185 WATER PCB-SD0000013357 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY I remember that they parked the vehicles -- We went through the gate up under the clay pit and then came in back through the woods, dug a path back through the woods, from the clay pit back to the area. I wanted to make sure I understood you when you answered a question just a few minutes ago so that I'm clear about it. I don't want to have any mistake in the record about it. Are you telling me sitting here today that you really don't 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 A. 16 17 230 know what is buried in those cells that are south of 202? Yes. I'm telling you I do not know in detail what is buried in these cells on 202. Generally what do you know about it? It was a landfill that was used for years at the plant, and plant waste, plant construction materials, plant materials of any kind may have been placed up there. Did anyone ever tell you, who was located at the plant, of any particular material that was buried up there? In general terms, that there were waste materials from the parathion operation back when the parathion was in Page 186 WATER PCB-SD0000013358 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY production at the plant, perhaps some material from the feed stream, the parathion. But that was all I've ever been told was up there. So just parathion is what you understood was up there? 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 Q. 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 Q. 23 231 Parathion materials, materials related to the production of parathion. And I remember there was some PCB equipment that might have been up there, equipment used in PCB that was decontaminated and decommissioned, cleaned, and placed up there. So that's all you understood was up there as far as PCB? To my knowledge, yes, sir. Just contaminated equipment? Well, cleaned equipment. Cleaned equipment after it was taken out of service? Yes, sir. When did you understand that was done? When was it put up there? Yes. Well, my understanding was the PCB operation was dismantled in the late '70s. So you understood that just the PCB production equipment was all that was Page 187 WATER PCB-SD0000013359 MAYASKY 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 22 23 Q. 232 related to PCBs that were stored up there in the south landfill? That was my understanding, yes, sir. MR. STEWART: I want to make sure -- tell me just for the record -- that we have that particular area located. I will get the map here and have it marked. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number Five was marked for identification.) Let me show you Plaintiffs' Exhibit Five. And this purports to be those cells or solid waste management units on the south of 202. We have previously offered this to Mr. Faust's deposition. Let me just ask you if that's where you are saying the parathion was located. In some of these cells -- and I'm not certain which ones -- were wastes from the parathion operation. You don't know which one it is? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 233 No, sir. And do you know where the PCB -- Can you point with a pen anywhere the PCBs are? No. Page 188 WATER PCB-SD0000013360 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number Six was marked for identification.) Let me show you Plaintiffs' Exhibit Six. Thi s is the eastern -- This purports to show the remediated area for the eastern si de of -- east of the plant, area east of the plant? Yes, sir. And there is a church building located on there. And I'm going to mark it with an X. Let's see. Thi s is 202 (indicating). Okay. Right there. I couldn't see it from here. That purports to be Mars Hill . Now, can you show me the area that y'all -- Let me give you a pen, please, sir. And show me the area that y'all 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 234 tested in, as best you can, near Mars Hill. (Executed by the witness.) MR. PECK: Just for the record, you placed an X on PX Six behind Mars Hill? THE WITNESS: Yes. That would be just about where we sampled, just behind Mars Hill, if you are referring -- Let me make sure I'm Page 189 WATER PCB-SD0000013361 11 12 13 Q. 14 15 A. 16 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY clear. You are referring to when I talked to Mars Hill about -Absolutely. That's what I'm tal ki ng about, in March. It would be in a ditch area that ran just behind Mars Hill on our property. Now, where did the ditch come from? The ditch came from -- collected from -Could you just make a mark on that and show us where the ditch came from? Yes. To the best of my understanding there were drainage ditches that came off the south end landfill, went under 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 235 202, and meandered down through a wooded area back behind the church and then alongside the church. It was approximately in thisregion that we sampled (indicating). Now, Mr. Mayausky, there was a spot along that ditch -- And of course this was something that I read in the newspaper and have heard just bandied about in this case -- where there was a hit of some two hundred twenty thousand parts per million in the soil. Is that correct? That's the number I recall, yes, sir. Is it your testimony -- And that was a PCB level? Page 190 WATER PCB-SD0000013362 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY That was a PCB level, yes, sir. Is it your testimony here today that that particular kind of level of PCB contamination came off equipment that was taken down and -I cannot speculate where that level came from. I have no idea. 1 Q. 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 236 You're a chemist. I'm not. I'm a lawyer and have not ever taken a chemistry course in my life. But would that be a fairly high figure in your opinion? In my opinion it was a high figure, yes, sir. And a high level to come off just equipment that had been cleaned and stored in one of those cells? Yes. I would say that was very, very high, and it was a puzzlement to me personally as a chemist to understand where that came from. Did you ask anybody, either Robert Jones or Jerry Brown or anybody who historically worked for Monsanto and had been involved with this plant, where such a level could have come from during this time? Right. Robert Jones and Jerry Brown and I talked about it, and it was a Page 191 WATER PCB-SD0000013363 MAYASKY 23 puzzlement to all of us where it came 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 A. 14 15 Q. 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 23 237 from. Would it be logical to assume, based on what you tell me or have told me and Mr. Cunningham and the Court today about what y'all were checking, the surface water coming off that landfill, that it certainly came off the south end landfill? I can't conclude that, because that is such a high level that it was very much a surprise to me that it was that high. Well - To conclude that it came from the south landfill, I can't make that conclusion. Well, if you checked in the ditch and the ditch carried water that came - surface water that came off the ditch, wasn't the purpose of your remediation work to catch the surface water that came off the landfill? Yes, sir. That was the purpose of the sedimentation pond, to collect any sedimentation that may be bearing PCBs. 1 Q. 2 238 And the PCBs would have come off that landfill? Page 192 WATER PCB-SD0000013364 3A 4 5Q 6A 7Q 8 9 10 A 11 Q 12 A 13 14 15 Q 16 17 A 18 19 20 Q 21 A 22 Q 23 MAYASKY I can't -- I can't definitively say that the PCBs came off that landfill. Where else would they have come from? I don't know. Well, I would assume, based on y'all's efforts there, that y'all are taking the responsibility for it, are you not? Yes, we are. Monsanto is? Building a sedimentation pond to capture the sediment to keep it from moving further downstream. From moving further downstream. What happens to it when it settles there? It's captured in the pond, and it's not going to go anyplace. The sediment falls out. Not going to go anyplace? It stays in the pond. To your knowledge does it vaporize at any point in time or become a part of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 239 the air? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. This witness has already testified he doesn't know what the south landfill remediation program was, calls for speculation. I don't know if it would volatilize or Page 193 WATER PCB-SD0000013365 9 not. MAYASKY 10 Don't you think that would have been 11 important for you as plant manager to 12 know when you were down there talking to 13 Rev. Weatherly and to -- certainly to 14 those residents as you were walking 15 around, that y'all might have been 16 building a time bomb there, something 17 that would have continued to contaminate 18 that area? 19 When I was out talking to the residents, 20 my approach was to tell them that we 21 wanted to go in and clean up the area we 22 found, get the soil removed. 23 But you left PCBs in the sediment pond, 240 1 Mr. Mayausky. And let's just say - 2 assume for the sake of a hypothetical 3 they did vaporize and became a part of 4 the air that the people breathe. All 5 y'all are doing is just leaving the 6 contamination there, aren't you? 7 MR. PECK: Wait, wait, wait, wait. 8 I object to the form of the 9 question. The hypothetical 10 also assumes there is PCBs in 11 the sediment basin, and there 12 is no evidence to support 13 that. 14 MR. STEWART: Y'all haven't Page 194 WATER PCB-SD0000013366 MAYASKY 15 tested, Adam, for the record, 16 to see if there is. 17 MR. PECK: Alan Faust testified 18 about -- He was the right 19 witness to discuss that 20 issue. His record speaks for 21 itself. 22 You can go ahead and answer the 23 question, Mr. Mayausky. 241 1 I can't hypothesize whether it was 2 volatilized or not. 3 Wouldn't you want to know as plant 4 manager when you were talking to - 5 That's my question. Wouldn't you want 6 to know when you were talking as the 7 plant manager to Rev. Weatherly and 8 Andrew Bowie and Zebedia Freeman -- if 9 you were creating this situation there, 10 wouldn't you want to know that? 11 My approach was to clean up the 12 situation that we had, to get in and get 13 the sedimentation that we had already 14 identified as a problem. 15 Well, I understand just based on -- And 16 let me mark this area off for you. And 17 let me just ask you a question about it. 18 This dark, lined area here, y'all have 19 put down another type substance. It's 20 not the polyurethane substance. But Page 195 WATER PCB-SD0000013367 MAYASKY 21 y'all put down, in a large portion of 22 that area, clay and then a substance, 23 and then you put clay on top of that. 242 1 if we have 2 MR. PECK: Wait a minute. Let me 3 object to the form of the 4 question. I think it's a 5 gross mischaracterization of 6 the remediation plan. But go 7 ahead. 8 if we have, it was done -- I don't 9 recall that work being done while I was 10 there. 11 Do you recall any contemplated -- doing 12 any work to cover any area east of the 13 plant and north of those cells on the 14 north side of 202? 15 My only involvement when I was there was 16 to build the sedimentation pond, and 17 that construction project started when I 18 was there and as I was leaving. I don't 19 know what the finalized plan was for 20 this area (indicating). I do not know. 21 MR. PECK: When you point -- By 22 this area, you mean the east 23 side area? 243 1 THE WITNESS: The east side area. Page 196 WATER PCB-SD0000013368 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY Why don't you just mark on that? Just sort of put red there. In this area (indicating). So if there is some form of material put down, a cover put down and dirt put over it, do you know what purpose that would be based on what you understood the problem was on the eastern side of the pi ant? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question, calls for speculation. I would assume that it was like the west end landfill. It would be a capping exercise where you would cap the soil in pi ace. Okay. To your knowledge were PCBs buried anywhere on the east side of the plant across Clydesdale over there and north of Mars Hill? No, sir. I have no knowledge of that. Are you telling me that there are no 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 7 Q. 244 PCBs buried there? I have no knowledge of it. Do y'all have a permit that would allow you to bury PCBs in that area? No, sir. We did not have a permit to bury any PCBs. What would be your standard operational Page 197 WATER PCB-SD0000013369 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY procedure, Mr. Mayausky, if you discovered PCBs in that area? What would you be required to do? To remove it to Emelle or to cap it in pi ace. Who gave you the right to cap it in pi ace? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. He has already told you he doesn't know anything about what was done in that area, so he can't testify about what happened. Who would give you the right to cap it in pi ace? We would talk with ADEM. 1 Q. 2 3 4 A. 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 245 But you would have to report it, would you not, Mr. Mayausky, to some regulator? To the Alabama Department of Environmental Management. What would happen if you did not report that, Mr. Mayausky? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question, calls for speculation. I don't know. I have never been involved in a situation where we haven't reported it. Page 198 WATER PCB-SD0000013370 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY Well, do you not understand that the plant manager has the responsibility to report the finding of contaminants that are outside a regulatedlandfill? if we found it, it would be my obligation to report it, yes, sir. And if you did not report it, do you understand that couldpossibly be a criminal activity? Yes, sir. 2 3 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 19 246 And would you expect under those particular rules and regulations that anyone who was a plant manager here would be the one who would be responsible for doing that? You're asking me to speculate about past environmental law and how it applied to past plant managers. I can't do that. I don't know when the law took effect that would place a person in criminal liability if they didn't report something. I honestly don't know when that law took effect. But you're saying during the remediation process, that you know anything about, nothing like that happened? To my knowledge, no. MR. PECK: I have no idea what "nothing like that" is. Page 199 WATER PCB-SD0000013371 MAYASKY 20 Burying contaminated materials without 21 reporting it to regulators outside of 22 regulated landfills. 23 To my knowledge, no. 247 1 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 2 Seven was marked for 3 identification.) 4 Now, let me show you Plaintiffs' Exhibit 5 Seven. Now, this is the western 6 landfill, and I want you just to tell me 7 where y'all did the testing or show me 8 where y'all did the testing in 9 connection with that, Mr. Mayausky. 10 Can you draw where y'all did the 11 testing with a red pen on that one? 12 Which testing are you referring to, 13 pi ease? 14 The original testing that y'all did when 15 Alabama Power Company notified the 16 Department of Environmental Management 17 that they had found this material on 18 your property. 19 MR. PECK: The original testing 20 Alabama Power did? Is that 21 what - 22 MR. STEWART: No. I'm talking 23 about the original testing -- Page 200 WATER PCB-SD0000013372 1Q 2 3 4 5 6A 7Q 8A 9 10 11 12 13 Q 14 A 15 16 Q 17 18 19 20 A 21 Q 22 A 23 MAYASKY 248 I understood that Monsanto did some testing around the western landfill that you talked to Mr. Wright about, and you were describing where y'all did the testing and where you found the PCBs. In water, the water testing? Yes. That would have been a ditch that ran along here. And I'm not sure where the sample point was, but the ditch ran along there, where I have just marked. (Indicating.) And it ultimately went into Snow Creek? Yes. It ultimately worked down and went into Snow Creek. Okay. Now, the landfill that was capped is marked in fairly dark lines; is that right? Is that the landfill area that y'all capped? No. Show me what y'all capped. The landfill area is this light area right here (indicating). 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 249 So the light areais the landfill area that you capped? Yes. And you are certain that PCBs are buried there? Page 201 WATER PCB-SD0000013373 MAYASKY 6 We found it in tars on top of the 7 landfill before we began the capping 8 process, so I would conclude that PCBs 9 are there, yes, sir. 10 Okay. Now, did you understand anything 11 at all about the nature of a remediation 12 program that should be put in place 13 being different for landfills that might 14 affect streams or water supplies as 15 opposed to just a landfill that might 16 not affect -- or at least from a 17 landfill that might not affect water 18 supply? 19 No. I'm not aware of any differences in 20 the way you would handle it. I know - 21 What I do know is that we had storm 22 water discharge permits for this storm 23 water that came off our plant that we 250 1 worked with ADEM on. But I don't know 2 if you would -- I don't know if you 3 would handle a landfill differently that 4 would impact a waterway and not impact a 5 waterway. In fact, there would be - 6 With storm water, it's going to 7 eventually all end up in some waterway 8 someplace. 9 Well, what we're talking about here, 10 though, are we not, Mr. Mayausky, is a 11 facility that's located in such a Page 202 WATER PCB-SD0000013374 MAYASKY 12 position where the storm water that 13 comes off Coldwater Mountain and the 14 water that -- and goes in the ditch that 15 goes beyond the church there. And on 16 Plaintiffs' Exhibit Seven there is a 17 meandering little trail over there. And 18 I will mark it in red, on the east side 19 of the plant, and ask you - 20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Do you want to do 21 that one in blue? 22 MR. STEWART: Okay. I will do 23 that one in blue. 251 1 -- and ask you if in fact that's a 2 ditch, that represents a ditch that goes 3 into Snow Creek eventually and comes off 4 your landfill on the south side. Then I 5 will go back to the question I was about 6 to ask you. 7 It's labeled east end drainage ditch, 8 yes, sir. 9 So as a practical matter, you know or 10 did know at the time we originally 11 talked about -- when you first learned 12 about this and you first started talking 13 about how to remediate the problem out 14 there, beginning with the west end 15 landfill, that both the drainage ditch 16 on the eastern side and the drainage 17 ditch along the west landfill affected Page 203 WATER PCB-SD0000013375 MAYASKY 18 -- eventually affected Snow Creek, which 19 made its way down to Choccolocco Creek 20 and Logan Martin Lake. You knew that it 21 affected a water type system, didn't 22 you? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 252 1 the question. 2 I know that the east drainage ditch, the 3 one we marked here in blue, and I know 4 the west drainage ditch that I marked in 5 red eventually found their way into Snow 6 Creek. 7 But didn't you know that Snow Creek 8 ultimately emptied into Choccolocco and 9 then ultimately into Logan Martin Lake? 10 Yes. I know that Snow Creek eventually 11 goes into Choccolocco Creek and 12 eventually goes into Lake Logan Martin. 13 Therefore the contamination that we're 14 talking about, whether it came off the 15 western landfill or off the southern 16 landfill, ultimately affected those 17 streams, either Snow Creek, Choccolocco 18 Creek, Logan Martin, or a combination of 19 all three? 20 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 21 the question, lack of 22 qualification. 23 I can't speculate whether the Page 204 WATER PCB-SD0000013376 MAYASKY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 253 contaminants that were in the west stream or east ditch, these two ditches, would impact the water quality or "affect," is the word you used, Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek, or Lake Logan Martin. Weren't you aware, Mr. Mayausky, from conversations you had had with Mr. Jones and Mr. Brown that the Alabama Department of Conservation had issued a fish advisory to people who were residents along Logan Martin Lake because of PCB contamination? I'm aware that there was a fish advisory on Lake Logan Martin and Choccolocco Creek, yes, sir. And it actually preceded your coming. It took place before you came here, didn't it? Yes. And they told you about it? Yes. MR. PECK: Object to the form of 1 2 Q. 3 4 254 the question, improper facts. Did you seek anybody's assistance in making a determination when y'all were formulating this remediation plan - Page 205 WATER PCB-SD0000013377 5 6 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 22 Q. 23 A. MAYASKY Which really ultimately is your responsibility as the plant manager here, isn't it? Yes. It's part of my responsibility. Did you seek the advice of anybody in Monsanto who might have told you that they would have done something different than what you did here, by capping the landfill, as opposed to maybe incinerating it or taking thematerial away from the site, because of the effect it had on those streams that I mentioned? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. I can't say that it affected the streams. Why is that, Mr. Mayausky? PCBs are generally industrial chemicals 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 10 255 that were used widely, both around the world and particularly in Anniston. The PCBs in Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin could have come from anywhere. I couldn't definitively say they came from us. I know that's a party line, Mr. Mayausky, but can you tell me why Monsanto chose to remove the large size amounts of materials from Snow Creek? Page 206 WATER PCB-SD0000013378 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY Because there was discovered sedimentation containing PCBs in Snow Creek, and working with ADEM the decision was made to remove that material. Because it came from your plant, didn't it? I can't say. I never saw a document that said it definitively came from our plant. But it was working with ADEM that we decided to remove it. Mr. Mayausky, what plant is located between the site where the materials 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 Q. 256 were removed and your landfill, either the western or the southern landfill? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. It's not been established this witness knows where the material was removed. And I don't. I don't knowwhere the material was removed. Well, it certainly was beyond the drainage ditch that drainedthe landfill on the south side or the west side? MR. PECK: I object to the form of the question. I don't know. Tell me, if you would, Mr. Mayausky - Page 207 WATER PCB-SD0000013379 MAYASKY 17 Well, let me let you take a look at -18 MR. PECK: Are you ready for a 19 break? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am. 21 MR. PECK: While you read that 22 document, Donald, let's take 23 a quick break. 1 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 22 257 (A break was taken.) Let me go to a series of questions about public relations in the community. Who handled that when you were here? Pretty much I did most of it myself. And what about contributions to charitable organizations? Myself also. Who all did y'all contribute to, and can you give us some idea about kinds of contributions y'all would make during the time that you were here? Civic organizations? Yeah. Well, any kind of organizations. United Way, the Cerebral Palsy Center, various schools in the area,Wellborn, Anniston, Oxford. What kind of contributions were you making to those schools? To Wellborn, it was a -- They were our Adopt-A-School, so it was a standard donation we made to be used for whatever Page 208 WATER PCB-SD0000013380 MAYASKY 23 discretion they chose to use it for, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 23 258 scientific equipment or whatever they wanted to buy. What kind of donation would you make? Money. Annually? Yes, annually. How much? I don't remember the exact amount. It was in the ballpark of three or four thousand dollars a year. The same to Anniston? Anniston, it was usually we would work with them if they needed a particular piece of equipment, and we would buy it for them. I can remember us purchasing some materials for their tech prep curriculum. What was the amount of money you spent? Two thousand dollars. We also sponsored teachers in the area to the National Science Teachers Convention. How much would you spend on that per year? 1 A. 2 259 Two thousand per school system, and we did basically every school in the Page 209 WATER PCB-SD0000013381 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 A. 23 Q. county. MAYASKY When did you start that, when you came here, or had y'all been doing that before you came here? We were doing that before I came here, but I expanded it to include every school system in the county. When did you expand it? The first year we did that was 1995. Was that after you discovered the PCB problem? The timing was, yes. And was the two thousand dollars what you gave each school in the county? Yes. What other charitable organizations besides the school did - The Anniston Museum of Natural History. You made an annual contribution? Yes. How much? 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 260 That was a specific three-year program we set up where we would sponsor a teacher who would do a traveling science road show to every school in Calhoun County. And it was on terms of we basically underwrote her salary in terms of twenty thousand dollars per year, in that ballpark. Page 210 WATER PCB-SD0000013382 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. At the museum? MAYASKY Yes. What other contributions -- Did you make that determination, or had they been doing that before you came here? No. That was a specific determination I made after I came here. After you came here? Yes, sir. And was thatalso in '95? I think the first year that might have been '95, yes. Whatother kind of contributions did you make? Those arethe only ones I canrecall. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 13 14 261 There may have been others, but those are the ones I recall. Did y'all ever hire anybody in the public relations area during the time that y'all first discovered this PCB problem? No. We have -- We were supported by the public relations staff in corporate. Tell me who that is. It was a series of people while I was there because they kept transitioning. It was originally Beth Rusert, R-u-s-e-r-t. Then it transferred to a Diane Herndon. And then now more Page 211 WATER PCB-SD0000013383 15 16 Q. 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 A. 22 23 Q. MAYASKY recently it is now Kevin Cahill. Kevin Cahill? Uh-huh (indicating yes). What did Beth Rusert do for you in connection with this problem that you found? Beth, really very little about the problem that we found. Did you have any communication with her? 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 262 She was aware of the issue. She knew that we were having these issues. She made suggestions of approaches we might make to the community, going door to door, type things we might deliver. She helped us to develop a brochure that we used about general information about the plant. Somewhere in transition that brochure transitioned from her to Diane Herndon, in helping us to develop that brochure. When you say brochure, was that a brochure that y'all developed to tell people in this community about the Monsanto plant because of the PCB problem? No. It was an update of a general information brochure the plant had had long before. In fact, it had -- the one that was being used when I went there Page 212 WATER PCB-SD0000013384 MAYASKY 21 had the photograph of a plant manager 22 two plant managers ago in it. So it did 23 need updating. So we just updated it. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 23 263 So what you'vetold me -- Isit Rusert? Beth Rusert. What you've told me Ms. Rusert did had to do with door-to-door programs? She suggested that? She just worked with me on -- And I don't remember if she suggested it or I suggested it, but we talked about it. Did she suggest to you what you should say? Not really. What about othersuggestionsshe made about how you would approach the community? Is she the one that recommendedthat y'all go to make speeches to civic clubs? No. That was pretty much my decision, that we needed to go out and talk to civic clubs and talk to organizations. It was my decision to go door to door, but she helped me. if I needed material, she would help me to develop that. She served -- Every year we 264 1 prepared a budget for our philanthropic Page 213 WATER PCB-SD0000013385 MAYASKY 2 giving that we talked about. She would 3 look that over and help me to decide if 4 we were meeting community needs with 5 some of that giving. 6 When did that increase? 7 Actually it had decreased prior to my 8 coming here, and then I was successful 9 in landing the special grant to the 10 Anniston Museum of Natural History for 11 the outreach teacher. So that was my - 12 I wanted to do something for the 13 community. I felt frustrated that there 14 was no one school system that I could 15 reach out to here. And if you live 16 here, you understand that the school 17 systems are a problem in this community. 18 I wanted to be able to do something that 19 would reach out to all schools in 20 greater Calhoun County without 21 particularly funding one school yet 22 impact the education of students across 23 the county system. And we worked with 265 1 the Anniston Museum of Natural History 2 for this program. 3 Other than that, did your general 4 contributions go up as a result of her 5 suggestions to you? 6 No. That was the only increase we saw, 7 was that special one-time grant -- well, Page 214 WATER PCB-SD0000013386 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY three-year grant. I'm sorry. We funded that position for three years. So the twenty thousand dollars came for three years, for a total of sixty thousand dollars? Yes. Y'all didn't make any additional contributions during the time that you were here than you had previously - I don't remember more monies, Mr. Stewart. I remember, if anything, maybe shuffling some of the monies down, giving less to the United Way and more to the schools. Did she have something to do with that suggestion? 266 1 No. Again, that was probably my own 2 suggestion. Because my assessment of 3 what was needed in the community was 4 that we wanted to help the schools. It 5 was something I personally believed in, 6 and I wanted to see our philanthropic 7 efforts going in that direction. I 8 consulted with her on it, talked about 9 it. 10 Did you have anything to do with the 11 fifteen hundred dollar contribution to 12 the science department out at Wellborn? 13 That's not the number I recall. I don't Page 215 WATER PCB-SD0000013387 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 A. 23 Q. MAYASKY think it was fifteen hundred dollars. I think it was more like a couple thousand dollars. But that was an ongoing - again, a part of the Chamber of Commerce Adopt-A-School program. They have long been our Adopt-A-School. So you generally gave to an educational program? Yeah. Who would have made the determination to 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 Q. 9 10 A. 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 267 pave the parking lot out there? Pave the parking lot at Wellborn school? Yes. I would have nothing to do with that. Are you familiar with the fact that that was done? No. Is that something out of the ordinary for y'all to do? We may have doneit. I have no knowledge of doing it. We would donate equipment to the school, excess equipment, things like computers, faxes, scientific equipment. So it's not out of the ordinary. What other assistance did they give you? Did they help you in preparing the speeches that y'all might make to the civic clubs, giving you suggestions as Page 216 WATER PCB-SD0000013388 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 A. MAYASKY to what you might say? Yes. Did they help you write those speeches? I would generally draft something up and 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 A. 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 268 then run it by them, and they would maybe modify it or change it, add to it, clarify it. Do you have copies of those somewhere? The only copy of the talking points I have -- and I don't have now -- are the talking points that were used in the community meetings. Okay. Who would have those? MR. PECK: You have them. MR. STEWART: We have them? Yeah. Those were produced. Did they have anything to do with those? Yes. The public relations people? Yes. Did your in-house legal people go over any of those at any point in time? Yes. So each time you would make a talk to the civic clubs or the community groups, your in-house legal people would look at -- I don't want to know what they told Page 217 WATER PCB-SD0000013389 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 A. 22 23 MAYASKY 269 you -- but your in-house legal people would look at it and your public relations people would look at it? No, they would not. I would say that they helped me to develop those general talking points, which were -- I then was able to use these -- if I talked to a civic organization, I would use those general talking points. Was there a point in time when you all made available to the Department of Public Health, Brian Hughes and those folks, the Prudential relocation program number? I believe we gave them copies of the program. I know we gave ADEM copies of the program. Since Alabama Department of Public Health is a subset agency of ADEM - Is that your understanding? That was my understanding. I remember ADEM telling us that they paid part of Brian Hughes' salary. So I would assume 1 2 3 4 Q. 5 270 by giving things to ADEM they also made their way to the Alabama Department of Public Health. Did y'all work with them closely on trying to relocate people, Dr. Hughes? Page 218 WATER PCB-SD0000013390 6 A. 7 8 Q. 9 10 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY No. Generally that was handled between the residents and Prudential. Okay. Was that particular person who handled the sale -- or the purchase of property, rather, the relocation program, located in the facility on-site at the plant? Yes, sir. A Prudential person? Yes, sir. For a while there was a trailer on the plant that was manned or personed by a Prudential employee. And then after that person was no longer there, then there was an 800 number they could call and talk to basically that same person. So if someone at ADEM or someone at the public health department had the 800 271 1 number, y'all would have given it to 2 them? 3 if they received our materials, they got 4 the number also. 5 Now, let me ask you. What did the other 6 two people -- You mentioned what this 7 other woman did for you. What did the 8 other two people with the public 9 relations thing do specifically for you 10 in connection with the PCB problem? 11 Diane Herndon, when she came into the Page 219 WATER PCB-SD0000013391 MAYASKY 12 role, basically did the same sort of 13 thing. I would consult with her about 14 -- if I had any speeches to give or 15 discussions or anything, that she just 16 -- probably because Beth had set up so 17 much that Diane really didn't have much 18 involvement. And then Kevin Cahill, the 19 last person I talked about 20 transitioning, was coming in just as I 21 was leaving, so I didn't have a whole 22 lot of interaction with him. 23 What about dealing with the press? Did 272 1 they assist you in dealing with the 2 press and formulating a plan to deal 3 with the press about this particular 4 problem, help you prepare press releases 5 and things like that? 6 if there was a press release to be 7 prepared, they would help me to prepare 8 that. But I have been trained in media 9 relations early on in my career, back at 10 Nitro, West Virginia. 11 Who did you contact -- First, what did 12 that training consist of? 13 It was done by Ryan and Associates, 14 which is a consulting firm in 15 Charleston, West Virginia. It consisted 16 of practice and presentation in front of 17 a camera, understanding different media, Page 220 WATER PCB-SD0000013392 MAYASKY 18 in that you understand timetables, that 19 an afternoon paper needed to have any 20 statements they needed by noon to make 21 the afternoon paper; a television 22 station makes the six o'clock news, and 23 you needed to have your quote by two 273 1 o'clock; the difference in context, the 2 way they approach things. The newspaper 3 would require generally more detail, 4 better to give them information than ask 5 them to follow up with questions. A 6 television station was more interested 7 in the sound bites, so to speak, looking 8 for that one impact of the sound bite. 9 Who was it that came up with the 10 proposal, Mr. Mayausky, or the 11 statement, Mr. Mayausky, that these 12 people should be moved out of the area 13 if they didn't want to be affected by 14 PCBs? Did that come from you, or did 15 that come from somebody -- sort of a 16 Monsanto resident -- I mean, a Monsanto 17 employee quoted as saying that the 18 residents that wanted to avoid the 19 problem should have moved out long ago. 20 You are talking about a newspaper 21 article? 22 Yes. 23 That was not a quote from me. Page 221 WATER PCB-SD0000013393 MAYASKY 1 Q2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 23 A. 274 Was that a quote from somebody with Monsanto? if I recall correctly, it was a quote from our attorneys. Oh, your attorney? I believe so. MR. PECK: I don't remember saying that. Are you talking about an in-house attorney? When you say in-house, a Monsanto attorney? Yes. No, I don't think it was. Did you ever make such a statement, Mr. Mayausky? Absolutely not. Did you ever see in writing from the company any such position that y'all took in connection with -- that was released to the press other than that statement from the attorney? May I ask a question? Are you saying 1 2 3 Q. 4 A. 275 did I see anything that said that the residents should have moved out? Other than in the newspaper. No. Page 222 WATER PCB-SD0000013394 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 A. 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY I'm talking about in a written document that Monsanto prepared that said that the residents should have moved out, if they didn't want to be contaminated, a long time ago? No, sir. I never saw anything from Monsanto on that. And that's a rough paraphrase of what they said in the newspaper article. I remember the statement vaguely. Who is it that you dealt with personally at the press here in the local area? It was a number of people. Again, at The Anniston Star it was -- The first reporter we had lots of contact with was Shawn Riley. Then he moved on. And then we talked with Elizabeth Bazulo and Tom Spencer, were two other reporters. And then from The Birmingham News was 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 A. 276 Rose Livingston. From the newspapers (sic), I don't remember. There was a reporter from TV 40, and there was a reporter that came out from the Birmingham station, 13. Did you ever have an occasion to sit down and talk to the folks who editorialized at The Star, Chris Waddell, Brandy Ayers? Chris Waddell was in a presentation that Page 223 WATER PCB-SD0000013395 MAYASKY 11 I talked with a group called CUL, 12 Committee of Unified Leadership. Chris 13 Waddell was a member of that group. And 14 sometime in 1995, probably the best I 15 can pin it down, I met with that group 16 and talked about the sampling and the 17 community issues of PCBs. 18 Okay. And did you ever go to The Star 19 or go to the TV stations and sit down 20 and talk with people other than the 21 regular work reporters? 22 I talked with Randolph Murray when he 23 was the editor there, but it was totally 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 277 unrelated to PCB issues. It was just he and I talking. I also had a relationship from knowing and talking with Pat -- He has since left The Anniston Star too. I can't remember Pat's last name. I talked with him. About PCBs? No. Just general issues. What general issues did you talk with him about? I can remember having a conversation with Randolph Murray about what it took the run a newspaper, how he had a talent side of running a newspaper and the reporters were temperamental. It wasn't about PCBs on Monsanto Page 224 WATER PCB-SD0000013396 17 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY property? NO. Did you ever provide any background material to The Star or background material to any of the local radio stations or TV stations? To the reporters, the ones we talked 1 2 3 Q. 4 A. 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 278 about, Tom Spencer, Shawn Riley, and Elizabeth Bazulo, yes. What form did that take? Shawn Riley actually came out to the plant and had a detailed tour of the plant, took him through processes, took him to the landfill. When did you do that? That was -- I believe that was late 1994 or early '95. Okay. And who suggested that you do that? The public relations people suggested it, plus it was a good turnover for him. I remember the prior plant manager, Bill Difur, came over from his new job. It was a good turnover since Shawn knew Bill, for him to meet me and also to visit the plant. Now, did you -- At the time that you talked to him, did you talk to him specifically about PCBs and about the Page 225 WATER PCB-SD0000013397 landfills and -- MAYASKY 279 Yes. -- their effect on the area? Yes. The main thing we talked to him about at that time was the west end landfill, because that was - Did you take him to the south end landfill? MR. PECK: West end landfill? You said west end landfill. I was asking did you take him to the landfill that was south of 202? Yes. We took him up on top of the south end landfill. And did you talk about any findings that you had at that point in time that indicated that there might be a problem there? I don't think we had a finding then. In fact, if I remember correctly, he wrote an article, and the photograph for that article was taken from the south end landfill, back towards the plant. Did he write an article after y'all went up there? Yes, sir. Page 226 280 WATER PCB-SD0000013398 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY Was that in fact before you talked to residents in the area? Yes, sir, as far as I remember, it was. Did the public relations people tell you that it would be wise for you to do that so you could get the paper on your side, Mr. Mayausky? Generally, again, through my media training, I understood that you wanted an effective presentation of your story. So, yeah. We took that upon bringing them in so they could understand our side of the issues. Now, what about Ms. Bazulo? Did you ever provide her any background information? The background -- I believe it was either her or Tom Spencer who received copies of the property purchase plan. Ms. Bazulo also -- I can remember giving her our contact list, the same list that 281 1 we would give to anybody who asked about 2 health consultations, the list of names 3 and numbers on that. She got that from 4 us. She was also at the community 5 meetings that we held, so she picked up 6 some of those materials there. She 7 visited the plant -- I don't remember 8 her having a detailed tour -- as did Tom Page 227 WATER PCB-SD0000013399 9 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY Spencer. He was at the plant. When she visited the plant, who did she talk to? Myself, Robert Jones. Mainly myself. Okay. And what was the purpose of that conversation, the PCB problem and the situation that y'all had? Yeah. We were -- At the time I remember that, we were already moving into the property purchase program. And where we used to have one reporter to talk to, Shawn Riley, they seemed totag-team us, with Tom Spencer looking at the -- He was based in Montgomery,and he would look at the state side of the issues and 282 1 the regulatory aspects; and Bazulo was 2 actually tagged as their health 3 reporter, but she would look at the more 4 human side of the issues and the health 5 results of the issues. 6 In addition to contacting the press and 7 the TV and radio and newspaper, did you 8 all also contact community leaders as a 9 result of the public relations folks' 10 suggestion? 11 I wouldn't say it was as a result of 12 public relations' suggestions, but we 13 began what we call a road show, for lack 14 of a better term, where we would present Page 228 WATER PCB-SD0000013400 MAYASKY 15 to the noon Rotary of Anniston, the 16 Lion's Club, the Historical Society, 17 basically any group we could get on 18 their docket. We would meet with them 19 and talk about the program and what we 20 were trying to do. This was well into 21 the property purchase program and 22 beginning to develop some plans for the 23 sedimentation pond. 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 18 19 20 283 And that was in '94 and '95? That would have been after the property purchase plan was already started up, so it would have been '95, late '95. Prior to that I made some individual contacts to people like the president of the Chamber of Commerce, who was acting president at the time, the ex-FBI agent. Larry Sylvester? Larry Sylvester -- thank you -- who was the acting president of the Chamber of Commerce. He was one person I talked to. Did y'all ever brief the chamber or any group in the chamber? Yes. Later on in that same time frame, when we were talking to the Lion's Club and folks like that, wetalked to the board of directors at the Chamber of Commerce. Page 229 WATER PCB-SD0000013401 MAYASKY 21 What was the substance of your 22 conversation with them? 23 We came in and explained the elements of 284 1 the property purchase program, the 2 sedimentation pond we would be building, 3 what we had done at the west end 4 landfill, and at that time any future 5 activities we might have with the 6 remediation efforts. 7 Did you talk in that time frame about 8 the PCBs, to those people about PCBs and 9 the problems that it might create for 10 the environment? 11 All the conversations dealt with talking 12 about PCBs. And if health concerns or 13 health questions came up, we were always 14 prepared to give them the list of 15 contacts. 16 No. I mean in the course of your 17 conversations that you had with the 18 chamber or the press or anything, did 19 you ever say anything about the problems 20 it might create for people being exposed 21 to them at the level that these people 22 had been exposed to out there? 23 MR. PECK: Wait a minute. Object 285 1 to the form of the question. Page 230 WATER PCB-SD0000013402 MAYASKY 2 We would -- Again, if health related 3 questions came up, we would say what we 4 knew, that we consulted with the 5 internal and external experts and they 6 didn't feel like we had a problem, if a 7 particular person in the audience had a 8 concern, we had this list of people they 9 could cal 1. 10 And they basically told them the same 11 thing you just got through telling me? 12 I don't know. I never called them. I 13 know what they told me is they didn't - 14 Which is the same you just got through 15 telling me? 16 But bear in mind, one of those contacts 17 is Brian Hughes, and he has never told 18 me his official position. 19 What relationship, if you know, did 20 Dr. Mueller have with -- is it 21 Dr. Foresman? 22 MR. PECK: Forrester. 23 Were they colleagues? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 286 I believe they are. What relationship is there between Dr. Hughes and the department that you talked to? Dr. Hughes? Brian Hughes. None that I'm aware of. Page 231 WATER PCB-SD0000013403 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY Isn't he being trained there? I don't know. I don't know where Dr. Hughes did his training. Tell me, if you would, if y'all had any other agents that represented you in the property purchase program other than Prudential. Well, in terms of agents, there were appraisers that people could choose from to have their properties appraised that were selected by Prudential. Who were those appraisers? I don't know. Did y'all have any Realtors that you dealt with? No, sir. 1 Q. 2 3 A. 4 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 13 287 Did you ever deal with Harris McKay Realty? No, sir. Yes, yes, I did. That's the one that Walt Frazier worked for, correct? You tell me. I think so. I think so. And how did you deal with WaltFrazier? Mr. Frazier was a son of one of the residents who we were trying to purchase the property, that's DorothyHammock. And I remember atthe community meeting Mr. Frazier spoke up and offered his Page 232 WATER PCB-SD0000013404 14 15 16 17 18 Q. 19 A. 20 21 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY services to the residents who were involved -- who might be thinking of participating in the property purchase program. So y'all began to deal with him? No. I never dealt with Mr. Frazier. In fact, later onhe and I had an altercation. And what was that altercation about, Mr. Mayausky? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 A. 16 Q. 17 18 19 288 Mr. Frazier threatened me. Where was that? Called me on the telephone. And threatened you? Absolutely. What about, the property purchase program? It was at the time we were demolishing buildings in the area, and he was very concerned about his mother and basically told me if we continued to show up down there to demolish buildings that he would shoot my ass. Walt Frazier told you that? Yes. Did y'all ever have Walt asking people to sell their houses to you? No. I had no business relationship with Mr. Frazier. Page 233 WATER PCB-SD0000013405 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY Did you ever pay him any money? Absolutely not to my knowledge. Okay. What about conversations with people who were members of Mars Hill 1 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 7 8 A. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Q. 289 Missionary Baptist Church? Did you ever have any while you were here? I'm sorry. Could you ask the question again? Conversations, other than the ones we have mentioned with Mars Hill Missionary Baptist Church. It was very unclear to me who were members of the church and who were not numbers of the church. I found out later, I believe, some of the residents that I knocked on doors were members of the church, like -- Well, I didn't knock on her door. But Cassandra Roberts, her mother, Mrs. Meeling, and her sister, Mrs. Meeling's sister who lived next door, I think, was also a member of that church. It was difficult for me to distinguish who was a member of that church and who wasn't. I met with the deacon board and those recognized as officers of the church. When exactly did you meet with or talk Page 234 WATER PCB-SD0000013406 MAYASKY 290 1 to Cassandra Roberts or Mrs. Meeling? 2 My first approach to Mrs. Meeling was 3 whenever we started to get access 4 agreements down around Bethel Baptist 5 Church and the residents around Bethel 6 Baptist Church. I would have to go back 7 and see when I actually first received 8 those. I would say the April time 9 frame. 10 MR. PECK: '95? 11 THE WITNESS: '95. 12 Okay. 13 And Cassandra owned some property in 14 that area. So I remember her talking 15 with me maybe on the phone or in person 16 about that property. She also showed up 17 at some of the community meetings we 18 had, and I talked with Cassandra. I've 19 talked with both Mrs. Meeling, on her 20 doorstep, and her sister. I remember 21 when we talked with Cassandra Roberts we 22 talked about the fact they used to run a 23 beauty salon out of the house next door, 291 1 that that business is now defunct, that 2 Mrs. Meeling used to be a beautician, 3 and they actually had a shop there. 4 When did you have a conversation with 5 them about the church, Mars Hill? Page 235 WATER PCB-SD0000013407 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY Oh, I don't remember -- if your question was did I talk with them about Mars Hill, I don't ever recall talking with them about Mars Hill. Oh, I stand corrected. I remember mentioning to Mrs. Meeling that I was talking with the church across the street, Bethel, and talking with Rev. Fields. And I remember her mentioning to me that she sometimes attended that church, although she was a member of Mars Hill Church. But you never talked to Cassandra, and you never talked to Mrs. Meeling or any group of people out at the church? No. What did you understand your responsibility was if a person was 292 1 represented by a lawyer and was a member 2 of that church? 3 My understanding was that any person who 4 showed up on the list that began to 5 appear in late 1995 and '96, that I 6 should not talk with them. 7 Okay. And why is that, Mr. Mayausky? 8 Why did you understand that? 9 The list said, "You should have no 10 further contacts with these people." 11 Did you comply with that? Page 236 WATER PCB-SD0000013408 MAYASKY 12 To the best of my knowledge, I did. It 13 was very difficult, because the list was 14 getting to be hundreds of people, and I 15 didn't know who they were. So in 16 essence, I stopped going door to door, 17 because I didn't know whose door I was 18 knocking on and who was on the list and 19 who wasn't on the list. So I basically 20 stopped doing direct community contacts 21 unless I could distinguish that somebody 22 was on the list. 23 And that's because they were represented 1 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 Q. 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 Q. 16 17 293 by an attorney, and you understood that was improper to do? Well, you in particular, Mr. Stewart. There were other attorneys that we could talk with who had clients, that I could talk with their clients. Who was that? Grover Hankins. Is that by some special permission by him? I just never received any correspondence from him telling me I couldn't talk with them, and he never seemed to stop me from talking to them. So your understanding was if they were represented by a lawyer, unless they told you not to contact a client, you Page 237 WATER PCB-SD0000013409 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 MAYASKY could contact them, and you did? Yes, sir. Okay. Now, did you do that on advice of counsel, Mr. Mayausky? MR. PECK: Objection. You can' t answer that question. He 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 22 23 294 can't answer that question. It is privileged. Mr. Mayausky -- Well, let me ask it this way: Did you do that after talking to a 1awyer? MR. PECK: You can answer that. I don't think it gets him anywhere. I made that decision after talking with a 1awyer, yes, sir. Okay. Tell me, if you would, Mr. Mayausky, if you have ever seen this letter right here. MR. STEWART: Mark that as Plaintiffs' Exhibit Eight. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number Eight was marked for identification.) Okay. Now, this is from Mr. Jones, the environmental supervisor, dated July the 11th, 1994, Exhibit Eight is, a letter to Mr. Phillip Davis, industrial branch, Page 238 WATER PCB-SD0000013410 MAYASKY 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 295 water division of ADEM in Montgomery. Uh-huh (indicating yes). It refers to, does it not, Mr. Mayausky, some work that was going on on the landfill across Highway 202 -- that plant site; is that correct? Yes. It talks about some work in the old Monsanto landfill located across 202 from the plant site. Would that not be what we have briefly described in Plaintiffs' Exhibit Five where that work was taking place? Yes, sir. And that would be in the cells that are located south of 202. Let me ask you to mark north on this map as being generally in this -- Is that right? North is generally that direction, yes, sir. Now, on Plaintiffs' Exhibit Five. So what do you know about the work that was done over there on the south end? This was about the time you came 1 2 3 A. 4 296 to the plant as the plant manager, wasn't it? Yeah. I was still in transition and didn't officially show up until August. Page 239 WATER PCB-SD0000013411 5 Q. 6 7 A. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY This is what, three weeks before you got here? Yes. This was -- We talked earlier about the clean decontaminated equipment that was placed up in the landfill. This was removing some of that equipment and transporting it to Emelle. And then to reseed, revegetate the area where it was taken from. And the second paragraph talks about some additional sampling that was to be done. Well, the additional sampling I will get to in just a minute. But the capping and reseeding of the area where the equipment was removed was where in connection with Exhibit Five? Can you show us on that where it would come? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. 1 A. 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 297 I don't recall exactly where it was. It would be hard for me to place on that map. I know as you drove up the access road that it was somewhere in this general vicinity (indicating). Can you just make a little circle mark there and put equipment, just e-q-u-i-p there? (Executed by the witness.) And that's where you understand the old Page 240 WATER PCB-SD0000013412 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY PCB equipment was buried - Yes. -- that they removed? Yes, sir. Is that the equipment that you previously discussed was part of the production facility that had been taken down and cleaned and then buried in that area? Yes, sir. Now, Mr. Mayausky, it also talks in this letter from Mr. Jones to Mr.Davis, Mr. Phillip Davis, Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 16 298 Eight, about once the work on the landfill has been completed and additional samples were taken, just before that it says, "In conjunction with this effort we will be sampling storm water discharge from the landfill at its outfall." Where is that? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question, lack of qualification. if I remember correctly -- and I don't know exactly where the samples were pulled -- I would say it was in the drainage ditches that came off of here and somewhere along this site, because they tended to run along this side of Page 241 WATER PCB-SD0000013413 17 18 Q. 19 20 21 22 A. 23 MAYASKY 202 (indicating). Along the south side of 202? Can you just draw a littlepicket fence type thing where you think those samples were taken? I don't know where the samples -- I'm only drawing where the ditch ran. 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 A. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q. 299 And that would be the outfall in your opinion that he was referring to in his 1etter? I would think so, yes. And tell me, if you would, Mr. Mayausky, if it would be fair to say that those samples were performed or taken sometime in July or August of 1994. MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question, calls for speculation. No. My recollection is they weren't taken at that time because we had to wait for a significant rain event. And what was described to me as a significant rain event is a certain dry spell period followed by a certain amount of rain in a given time before you could pull the samples. So we had to wait for nature to tell us when we could sample for these. When did that happen? Page 242 WATER PCB-SD0000013414 MAYASKY I don't recall exactly when the samples 300 were taken. Well, it was in '94, wasn't it? It was probably late '94, yes. What did you find when you did the sampling in late '94? if I remember correctly, these results -- And it may have been early '95. I don't remember. But these results were found to be clean, very undetectable parts of PCBs from this ditch area. That's my recollection of it. And who performed those tests? Garrity and Miller, I would assume. So they were clean tests that were performed in '94 in connection with this test here? MR. PECK: Or early '95, I think he said. And again, I'm fuzzy on the timetable. But late '94 or early '95, from this ditch area right here (indicating). Would you call those grab samples, Mr. -- if I remember correctly, there were grabs and some composites. 301 MAYASKY 3 Q. And did y'all report those to ADEM - 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. --as you have indicated? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And those indicated basically no problem 8 at that time? 9 A. In that ditch, that's true, yes, sir. 10 Q. Okay. Now, y'all were -- had some 11 wells, did you not, that were located 12 near that landfill? 13 A. There were wells, ground water wells 14 around that landfill, yes, sir. 15 Q. What were you testing for? 16 A. In those ground water samples we 17 generally tested for parathion. 18 Q. Why would you be testing for parathion, 19 because it was buried there? 20 A. It was used for parathion storage, yes, 21 sir. 22 Q. What else did you test for? 23 A. I don't recall exactly what else. But 302 1 that was the one main thing that I 2 remember that we tested for. Those were 3 wells which captured that ground water 4 and sent it to our waste treatment plant 5 for treatment. 6 Did you ever check in that general area 7 during the time frame that you were 8 here, from August of '94 until you left, Page 244 WATER PCB-SD0000013416 9 10 A. 11 12 13 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. 23 for PCBs? MAYASKY Yes. There were tests of the ground water for PCBs. And if I recall correctly, there was none detected in the ground water monitoring wells. That was your recollection of how it was? Yes. And that was for the full time that you were here? That I recall, yes, sir. Who told you that? Robert Jones. And that was also true of the Western landfill? 1 A. 2 3 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 303 There were no ground water monitoring wells right up against the western landfill. There were some further north of there, and those were tested also. And you never found any PCBs? Not to my knowledge, that I remember, no. (Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number Nine was marked for identification.) Let me show you what is Plaintiffs' Exhibit Nine. This is a letter from Bruce Mathews, who is an investigator with the Office of the Attorney General Page 245 WATER PCB-SD0000013417 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY in the State of Alabama. And it refers to opening of case files which pertain to Monsanto Chemical Company in connection with PCB contamination of the Choccolocco Creek area. Are you familiar or did someone make you familiar with thatparticular problem, Mr. Mayausky? No. I was not aware that the attorney 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 304 general asked for the case to be opened again. This is the first time I have ever seen this. I was aware that Tull Chemical had had some -- may have been even action by the state as a result of some PCB release that they had to Snow Creek. I was told about that. Who told you about that? Jerry Brown or Barbara Jones. I can't remember the specific conversation. When did they tell you that took place, in this time frame or some earlier time frame or later than this? Well, in February -- I was still in West Virginia. So no, it wasn't in this frame. It would have been after I came. Tull Chemical Company - MR. PECK: I think he is asking you when the Tull Chemical incident occurred, not when Page 246 WATER PCB-SD0000013418 21 22 23 A. MAYASKY you knew about it. MR. STEWART: Right. Oh, I don't know the date it occurred. 1 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 A. 14 15 16 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 22 A. 23 305 I never nailed the date down. Was it before you came here? Yes. And did you understand at that time that the problem at Tull Chemical Company that was actioned for by the attorney general had to do with PCB contamination? Yes, sir. And do you know how big Tull Chemical Company is? Are you familiar with the company? I have only seen it from driving along the road and what I was told by Robert Jones and Jerry Brown, that it's not a very big facility. Okay. And it's my understanding, then, that this action took place before you came here and it dealt only with Tull Chemical Company. Is that what you understand? My understanding is that Tull Chemical was cited -- and they may not even have 306 1 been cited -- but asked to clean up by Page 247 WATER PCB-SD0000013419 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 MAYASKY the state for some PCB material they released to Snow Creek. Okay. Do you know or did Robert or Jerry Brown tell you if Monsanto was involved in any way, shape, form, or fashion with that particular problem. The Monsanto connection came up that - I don't even recall how the PCBs were discovered. But there was a finding of PCBs in the creek. And in tracing it back, it was traced back to Tull Chemical. And they did approach us - they knew we used to manufacture it - and ask us questions, but that the ultimate finding was that it was Tull Chemical who released that material. And either Robert or Jerry told you that? Yes, sir. When you say they approached us, who was it that you understood approached Monsanto? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 5 6 7 A. 307 ADEM. Okay. And so did ADEM indicate -- Did Monsanto or Robert and them indicate that Monsanto had told them that they didn't have any involvement in it and ADEM agreed with that? I don't remember the details. I just Page 248 WATER PCB-SD0000013420 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 14 15 16 17 A. 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 MAYASKY know that the ultimate finding was it was a release from Tull Chemical. That went into Snow Creek? Yes, sir. And ultimately -- Did you understand that came about because of some problem with Choccolocco Creek or Logan Martin? Is that how you understood that came about? I would hate to speculate, but it must have been. Logic says it would have to be. Okay. Then let me understand, Mr. Mayausky. You are saying that Tull Chemical Company, which is a smaller company than Monsanto, can release 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 11 12 13 Q. 308 chemicals into Snow Creek and that could eventually find its way into Choccolocco or Logan Martin, but y'all couldn and it wouldn't make its way down there. Is that what you are telling me? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. It calls for speculation. I only speculated that there was something found in Snow Creek that caused ADEM to start looking and found a release from Tull Chemical. And Robert Jones and Jerry Brown told Page 249 WATER PCB-SD0000013421 MAYASKY 14 you -- never told you that there was 15 some concern expressed about y'all's 16 involvement in it? 17 I was told that they talked to us about 18 it, yes, sir. 19 But that was resolved, and y'all were 20 found faultless, blameless, or whatever? 21 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 22 the question. 23 I would assume that was the outcome, 1 2 3 Q. 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 Q. 309 because I don't remember any specific action that came out of this. Who did Mr. Brown or Mr. Jonesindicate that they dealt with from the state, from ADEM, in connection with this? What particular individual? Did they mention the name of anindividual they dealt with? No, sir. Who did -- You have indicated earlier who y'all dealt with on the western landfill. Who did y'all deal with on the catchment basin at ADEM? Was it a different person or the sameperson? Generally it was the same people. But by that time it was pretty much Jo Hanson or Alan Faust who was doing the direct dealings. You did not -- You didn't deal with Page 250 WATER PCB-SD0000013422 20 21 A. 22 Q. 23 MAYASKY those people? No, sir. Let me ask you if you know anything about the Monsanto Defense Group. 1 2 3 4 A. 5 Q. 6 7 8 9 A. 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Q. 23 310 MR. PECK: What? MR. STEWART: Monsanto Defense Group. I have never heard of that group. Do you know of a group of insurance companies known at the Monsanto Defense Group that provided coverage to Monsanto down through the years? No, sir. Okay. Do you know whether or not, Mr. Mayausky, that group or a group of insurance companies has been involved in anything that has to do with this particular problem that y'all are experiencing here? No, sir. And in particular the Anniston plant. I have never heard of that group, and I know of no involvement in that group, the Monsanto Defense Fund, with any of the issues we had at the Anniston plant. It's Monsanto Defense Group, not Monsanto Defense Fund. Have you ever Page 251 WATER PCB-SD0000013423 1 2A 3Q 4 5 6A 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q 13 14 A 15 Q 16 A 17 18 19 Q 20 A 21 22 23 Q MAYASKY 311 heard of that group of people before? No, sir, never heard of that group. Anybody at St. Louis ever told you y'all had some kind of relationship with that group or any of those people? No, sir. MR. STEWART: if y'all would give me a few minutes, I want to talk to Charlie. I may be close to winding up. (A break was taken.) (By Mr. Stewart) Who was the previous manager here at the plant? William Difur. How long had he been here? I don't know when he started, but he left in June of 1994. I think he came about 1992. Where did he go? He went to Monsanto's Augusta plant that produces Nutrasweet, actually a division of Monsanto. Why was he moved from this plant? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. Promotional opportunity. Okay. And where were you moved to? Indian Orchard, Massachusetts. What kind of plant is that? It's a Solutia plant. Is that your Page 252 312 WATER PCB-SD0000013424 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 12 A. 13 Q. 14 A. 15 Q. 16 A. 17 Q. 18 A. 19 Q. 20 21 22 A. 23 question? MAYASKY What kind of product does it produce? It produces inner liner for safety windshields of automobiles. What is your position there at the Indian Orchard plant? Plant manager. Was that a promotion for you? Yes, sir. Larger plant? Yes, sir. More employees? Yes, sir. Okay. Have you ever been told about a historical health study for the Anniston plant workers? Yes. We had a presentation from -- I don't remember the name of the gentleman 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 Q. 10 A. 11 Q. 313 from our corporate public health group -- talking about generally health studies of Monsanto workers, chemical workers, including Anniston chemical workers. When was that done? When was the presentation done? I want to say it was fall of '95. When was the health study done? I don't recal1. Did Monsanto conduct the study or have Page 253 WATER PCB-SD0000013425 MAYASKY 12 someone conduct the study? 13 Monsanto gathered the data and analyzed 14 the data ourselves. 15 And was that related to exposure to 16 chemicals that these workers might have 17 had while they worked for Monsanto? 18 There were questions of where the people 19 may have worked, yeah. But it was in 20 general just our normal -- We have a 21 physical program we do with people to 22 study their health as they work for us. 23 Where would that study be located? 1 A. 2 Q. 3 4 A. 5 6 7 Q. 8 9 A. 10 11 12 Q. 13 14 A. 15 16 17 314 Somewhere in the corporate offices. How is it -- What's the title of it? How would you ask for it? I don't know. A health study of Monsanto chemical workers. I really don't remember the title of it. And do you know the general time frame in which it was done, have any idea? Oh, it was from the early '70s, when the data started being collected, to present. And were they looking for particular diseases that people might have had? I don't remember particular diseases, but it did heart attack rates, high blood pressure, cancer rates, anything like that. I don't remember diabetes, Page 254 WATER PCB-SD0000013426 18 19 Q. 20 A. 21 Q. 22 23 A. MAYASKY but those things I do remember. So cancer, heart, high blood pressure? High blood pressure. Any kind of liver problems or anything like that? I don't remember liver enzyme problems 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q. 22 A. 23 315 or anything like that. And did it give any findings -- When the presentation was made, did they indicate what the findings were? I clearly remember the general findings were that as a population our workers were healthier than the general population. Was this a study that was conducted in-house? I believe I've asked you who did it. But was it conducted in-house, or did y'all farm this out? My understanding, the way the study was done was we collected the information from the annual physicals we do, and it was analyzed and compiled in-house. Was Dr. Kaley involved in the presentation that was made here? Dr. Kaley was down for that presentation, yes, sir. And would he be familiar with the study? Yes, sir. Dr. Kaley would be familiar with the study. Page 255 WATER PCB-SD0000013427 MAYASKY 1 Q- 2 3 A. 4 Q. 5 A. 6 Q. 7 A. 8 9 10 Q. 11 A. 12 Q. 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 17 18 A. 19 20 21 Q. 22 23 A. 316 Do you have regular medical testing done by Monsanto? Do I personally? Yes. Yes. What have you been tested for? Annual testing for general health, hearing, sight, health history. I fill out questionnaires on health history. Do they do a prostate test for cancer? Yes, sir. Did Monsanto pay for that? Yes, sir. Have you had any particular testing that's different from what you normally had since you have been here at the Anniston plant? No, sir. Every plant I have worked at has had pretty much the same protocol of testing. Was the Anniston plant profitable when you were here? Yes, sir. We had two product lines, two 317 1 major product lines. Therminol was very 2 profitable, one of the better profitable 3 products for Monsanto. And PNP 4 para-nitrophenol was basically a Page 256 WATER PCB-SD0000013428 5 6 7 Q. 8 A. 9 10 Q. 11 12 13 14 15 A. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MAYASKY break-even product, but it was a -- it fed acetaminophen, and that was - Which was profitable? Which was profitable. It fed -- a name of Rhone Poulenc. Let me ask you this: Would the remediation here or the cost of the remediation here come out of the profits of this local plant, or is that something the company assumes? No. What we have here is we send forward a gross profit number, and then from that are taken corporate items. Any of the remediation work would come out of those corporate items above the -- We talk in terms of above the line, above the plant line those would come out. So the cost of remediation would not impact -- 1 Q. 2 A. 3 4 Q. 5 6 7 A. 8 9 10 318 The profitability? -- the profitability of this site, no, sir. Are you familiar with the cost of the proposed remediation of at least the western landfill? I know that the western landfill cost approximately fivemillion dollars. I have no idea of the cost for where we have been since we have built the basin. Page 257 WATER PCB-SD0000013429 11 Q. 12 13 A. 14 Q. 15 16 A. 17 Q. 18 19 20 21 A. 22 23 Q. MAYASKY What were the basins? Do you know what they were? No, sir, I don't. Was that for the total project over there, capping that west end landfill? Yes, sir. Westinghouse did that project. Do you know the contractor that did the catchment basins? Are you familiar with those people? No. I don't remember who was used. I'm sorry. That escapes me. You dealt with Rev. Fields at the Bethel 1 2 A. 3 Q. 4 5 A. 6 7 8 Q. 9 A. 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q. 16 319 Church? Yes, sir. Are you the one that negotiated with Rev. Fields about that? When you say negotiation, for the construction of their church? Is that what you are talking about? Yeah. Did you handle all that? No, sir. I did not do any of the direct negotiations. I began the initial conversations. And then when it came time to start working with them on the construction of their church, it came to either Jo Hanson or Alan Faust. Was anybody hired out of that church as a consultant? Page 258 WATER PCB-SD0000013430 MAYASKY 17 Not that I'm aware of, no, sir. 18 MR. STEWART: I believe that's 19 all . 20 MR. PECK: Let me ask you. I 21 didn't get clear. Y'all are 22 going to take -- You are 23 taking Pearly. So can we 320 1 just moot our motion for 2 protective order? 3 MR. STEWART: Let me see your 4 protective order, but I think 5 that's correct. Let me see 6 your protective order. We've 7 just got to have -- It is my 8 impression, yes, that's what 9 we are going to do. 10 The other thing is the 11 dates that y'all have set for 12 a couple of depositions, that 13 particular person on the 14 dates that you have offered 15 -- I have got to clear that 16 with Don Barrett. That's not 17 my deposition. 18 MR. PECK: Have we set a date for 19 that? 20 MR. STEWART: I believe there's a 21 date that Buddy has 22 indicated. Page 259 WATER PCB-SD0000013431 MAYASKY 23 MR. PECK: I don't know if that's 321 1 clear or not. 2 MR. STEWART: I'd have to check, 3 and let's get a date for 4 that. And then y'all have 5 noticed the 30(b)(6) 6 representative of the church 7 for the 15th. 8 MR. PECK: Yeah. 9 MR. STEWART: There's a good bit 10 of the information that y'all 11 already have, that you have 12 asked for in connection with 13 that. And in addition to 14 that, there's a good bit of 15 information y'all will have 16 by the time you get there. 17 Plus I'm going be talking 18 over the next couple of days 19 with the deacons, the 20 remaining deacons, and the 21 former pastors, and we'll set 22 those depositions. So I 23 don't really know what you 322 1 want to do. But if you want 2 a 30(b)(6) representative, we Page 260 WATER PCB-SD0000013432 MAYASKY 3 will be glad to sit down and 4 talk about these. 5 MR. PECK: Well, we just want to 6 make sure we have got it. 7 MR. STEWART: Huh? 8 MR. PECK: We filed it, so we want 9 to make sure we have got it. 10 MR. STEWART: You have most of it. 11 MR. PECK: We haven't taken 12 somebody -- You know, we have 13 taken a few depositions in 14 this case, is about all we 15 have done. But we haven't 16 taken anybody who clearly 17 speaks for the church. And 18 we wanted to make sure we got 19 it. 20 MR. STEWART: You have taken the 21 pastor and the chairman of 22 the deacon board. 23 MR. PECK: Right. We did that, 323 1 right. 2 MR. STEWART: Both of those people 3 speak for the church fairly 4 effectively. And plus, 5 you've got every scrap of 6 paper that I can find that - 7 In other words, y'all have 8 been in the church with an Page 261 WATER PCB-SD0000013433 MAYASKY 9 architect and you've gone 10 through every single - 11 frankly every single piece of 12 property that they have got 13 there. Of course, you've got 14 all the bank notes and 15 everything else. I really 16 don't know what else you will 17 find out about the church, 18 but we will be more than 19 happy to give you whatever 20 little bit of information - 21 I've talked to Buddy. 22 The spreadsheet is basically 23 what we are going to give you 324 1 on those members. I'll try 2 to get that to you in the 3 next couple of days. I've 4 just got to catch up with 5 some depositions I've got to 6 do. And then Charlie has got 7 some sampling information 8 that we have been working on. 9 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Byron is supposed 10 to be mailing that. 11 MR. STEWART: And we will get it 12 to you. I don't know a whole 13 lot about -- much more that 14 you would need. Page 262 WATER PCB-SD0000013434 MAYASKY 15 MR. PECK: So you are going to get 16 that? You are going to try 17 to get up with the deacons 18 and see whether or not we can 19 get dates maybe next week, 20 the week of the 13th? 21 MR. STEWART: I'm going to try my 22 best to get those people. 23 Some of those people work, 325 1 and their availability - 2 MR. PECK: We will work around 3 their schedules. Are you 4 doing -- I think Buddy gave 5 you that, did he not, Jerry 6 Brown and maybe - 7 MR. STEWART: Yeah. We are going 8 to take Jerry Brown and - 9 MR. PECK: On the 21st? 10 MR. STEWART: Yeah. We're going 11 to take those dates. And I'm 12 going to send him a letter 13 and send all this 14 information. 15 Now, I am not going to 16 sit up here for Andrew to be 17 the representative. I'm not 18 going to sit up here with 19 Andrew Bowie and have him go 20 through the same questions Page 263 WATER PCB-SD0000013435 MAYASKY 21 that y'all asked him on the 22 first shot. 23 MR. PECK: I don't have any 326 1 interest in that either. 2 MR. STEWART: That won't happen. 3 He will be our 30(b)(6) 4 representative. He will give 5 you the information. And if 6 you have it already -- We say 7 in our response to your 8 discovery requests that 9 you've got it. Because he 10 works, and it's awfully 11 difficult for him to get off 12 and come back. And 13 y'all already had him one 14 time. 15 16 (The deposition concluded at 17 4:35 p.m.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 327 1 I do hereby certify that the witness Page 264 WATER PCB-SD0000013436 MAYASKY 2 whose attached deposition was taken before me 3 was by me first duly cautioned and sworn to 4 tell nothing but the truth in the cause 5 aforesaid; that the testimony contained herein 6 was by me reduced to writing in the presence 7 of said witnesses by means of stenography and 8 afterwards transcribed by means of computer 9 aided transcription. The foregoing is a true 10 and accurate transcript of the whole of the 11 testimony given by said witness, as aforesaid. 12 I do further certify that I am not 13 connected by blood or marriage with any of the 14 parties or their attorneys or agents and that 15 I am not an employee of any of them, nor 16 interested in the matter of controversy. 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 18 my hand and affixed my notarial seal at 19 Gadsden, Alabama, County of Etowah, this 24th 20 day of April 1998. 21 Deborah Salers Garrett 22 Certified Shorthand Reporter Registered Professional Reporter 23 Notary Public, Alabama-at-Large My Commission expires: 3-7-2001 Page 265 WATER PCB-SD0000013437