Document e562JD8LL35JR7GKvJmGoYk24

12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 2 17TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND 3 FOR BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA 4 5 GENERAL JURISDICTION DIVISION 6 7 CASE NO. 02-11900 (27) 8 9 MONA BENTLEY, individually and ) 10 as Personal Representative of the ) 11 Estate of CLARENCE E. BENTLEY, ) 12 Deceased, ) 13 Plaintiff, ) 14 vs. ) 15 UNION CARBIDE CORP., et al., ) 16 Defendants. ) 17 18 The telephonic discovery deposition of Carlo 19 Martino, taken in the above-entitled cause on the 20 7th day of December, 2004, at Suite 3900, 190 South 21 LaSalle Street, Chicago, Illinois, at 11:00 a.m. 22 23 REPORTED BY ELVIRA M. KOKOTT 24 CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER LICENSE NO. 84-3309 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B< 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 FERRARO & ASSOCIATES 4 MR. DAVID JAGOLINZER 5 4000 Ponce DeLeon Boulevard 6 Miami, Florida 33146 7 305-375-0111 8 appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff 9 10 MAYER, BROWN, ROWE & MAW, LLP 11 MS. KATHERINE CLARK 12 190 South LaSalle Street 13 Chicago, Illinois 60603 14 312-782-0600 15 appeared on behalf of the Deponent; 16 17 PIERCE, HERNS, SLOAN & McLEOD, LLC 18 MR. DAVID YARBOROUGH 19 321 East Bay Street 20 P.O. Box 22437 21 Charleston, South Carolina 29413 22 843-722-7733 23 appeared telephonically on behalf of 24 Union Carbide Corporation; 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 RUMBERGER, KIRK & CALDWELL 4 MR. MICHAEL CRIST 5 80 SW 8th Street 6 Miami, Florida 33130 7 305-995-5404 8 appeared telephonically on behalf of 9 Rockbestos Corporation; 10 11 MS. DAWN MARSHALL 12 appeared telephonically on behalf of 13 Union Carbide Corporation and 14 Defendants et al. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 INDEX 2 WITNESS 3 Carlo Martino 4 By Mr. Jagolinzer 5 6 EXHIBITS 7 NUMBER 8 Plaintiff Deposition 9A B 10 C D 11 E F 12 G H 13 I J 14 K L 15 M N 16 O P 17 Q R 18 S T 19 20 21 22 23 24 EXAMINATION 5 MARKED FOR ID 97 124 125 126 127 131 131 142 147 147 148 150 150 151 151 153 153 155 156 157 2 3 4 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 (Whereupon, the witness was duly 2 sworn.) 3 Carlo Martino, 4 called as a witness herein, having been first duly 5 sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 8 Q. Good morning, Mr. Martino. 9 A. Good morning. 10 Q. Could you, please, state your full name 11 for the record. 12 A. Carlo F. Martino. 13 Q. And, what is your current address? 14 A. 125 River Road, Somerville, 15 S-O-M-E-R-V-I-L-L-E, New Jersey, 08876. 16 Q. What is your current date of birth? 17 A. March 27, 1927. 18 Q. Mr. Martino, are you presently taking any 19 medications that would affect your ability to 20 remember things? 21 A. No. 22 Q. I understand you have had your deposition 23 taken before, but I just want to go over just some 24 basic ground rules. And, I am sure you heard them 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Be n tl 1 before, so I'll cut to the chase. 2 If I ask you any questions that you don't 3 understand, or I am unclear for any reason, please 4 just ask me to rephrase my questions. I will be 5 happy to do so. Is that okay? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Also, if I ask you a question and you 8 don't know the answer to it, just tell me you don't 9 know, and I'll be happy to move on and get to some 10 other area; is that fair? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. You are presently retired from where, sir? 13 A. Union Carbide. 14 Q. And, you're presently here today at the 15 request of Union Carbide, correct? 16 A. Attorneys for Union Carbide. 17 Q. Okay. I understand that you live in 18 New Jersey. How is it that we came to take the 19 deposition in Chicago? 20 A. Because - 21 MS. CLARK: I would just like to place an 22 objection to the extent that's more properly asked 23 of counsel, but he can go ahead, if he knows. 24 THE WITNESS: It was scheduled here. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. Did you request to come to Chicago to take 3 a deposition? 4 A. I didn't, no. 5 Q. You have previously testified on behalf of 6 Union Carbide or their lawyers on other occasions, 7 correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And, today, you and your -- you and the 10 attorney for Union Carbide were kind enough to 11 bring with you today some prior testimony, is that 12 correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you know if the copies of the 15 depositions and the trial transcripts that you have 16 brought here today, do these represent all of the 17 testimony you have given with respect to Bakelite 18 or asbestos containing litigation on behalf of 19 Union Carbide? 20 A. No, they donot. 21 Q. Do yourecall how many times you have 22 testified at trial? 23 A. Twice. 24 Q. And, I see that, I guess I have one in 5 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentl 1 front of me, that says In Re: Asbestos 2 Litigation -- that is not a trial transcript. 3 Excuse me. Let me go back. 4 Actually, okay. So, everything that I 5 have in front of me today, these are depositions 6 that you have given, not trial transcripts, is that 7 your understanding? 8 A. That is correct. 9 Q. In terms of trial, I understand that you 10 had one trial in California, is that correct? 11 A. Two. 12 Q. So, both trials were in California? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. One of those trials was in a case in which 15 I believe a gentleman had alleged that he was 16 suffering from mesothelioma as a result of exposure 17 to Union Carbide Bakelite. That individual, was 18 that named Trinkazie (phonetic)? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you recall the name of the other 21 individual plaintiff who was bringing the lawsuit 22 in California at trial? 23 A. Yeager. 24 Q. Okay. And, I understand you have brought 6 7 8 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 with you today the deposition that was taken in the 2 Yeager case? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was there a deposition also taken in the 5 Trinkazie case, if you recall? 6 A. No. 7 Q. No, you don't recall or, no, there wasn't? 8 A. No, there wasn't. 9 Q. The first time that you began testifying 10 for Union Carbide or their lawyers in these 11 matters, that was the deposition that you gave in 12 the Yeager case in May of 2001, is that correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. In terms of depositions that you have 15 given with respect to asbestos cases or asbestos 16 litigation, I have five here, five depositions. 17 Are there more than five times that you have given 18 depositions? 19 A. You have three there. 20 Q. I have three? 21 MS. CLARK: I believe one of those is a 22 multi-volume. 23 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 24 Q. Okay. I have three here. I'll figure 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 that out later. 2 I see. There was one case in Virginia in 3 which, let's see, you were deposed -- you were 4 deposed in New Jersey, and that one looks like, 5 wow, that one took two days or three days? 6 A. Three days. 7 Q. Okay. So, that's you. Is this all of the 8 depositions that you have given, or have you given 9 additional depositions? 10 A. I have given additional depositions. 11 Q. Do you recall approximately how many more? 12 A. Two more. 13 Q. And, how recent were those depositions? 14 A. In September, early September. 15 Q. Of this year? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. Was that both of those depositions 18 were in September of this year? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Were those depositions with respect to 21 different cases, or was it just a continuation of 22 one of the other? 23 A. Different cases. 24 Q. Do you recall the names of the individuals 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 who were alleging that they had an asbestos related 2 disease? 3 A. White, and the second one is Allgood 4 (phonetic). 5 Q. Do you recall the diseases that either 6 Mr. White or Mr. Allgood were alleging they were 7 suffering from in those cases? 8 A. In the case of Allgood, mesothelioma. I 9 can't pronounce that. 10 Q. Mesothelioma? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. How about in the case of Mr. White? 13 A. Mr. White, I don't recall what the health 14 problem was there. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. I think it was cancer. 17 Q. Where were those depositions taken? Where 18 did that take place? 19 A. In San Francisco. 20 Q. Both of them were in San Francisco? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. So, you went to San Francisco for the 23 depositions? 24 A. Yes. 9 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Do you recall by any chance the name of 2 the plaintiff's attorney in either one of those two 3 cases? 4 A. No, I don't. 5 Q. Do you currently have anyother 6 depositions scheduled that you know of? 7 A. The Allgood case deposition has not been 8 completed. 9 Q. So, that has to be continued at some time? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Are you currently scheduled to go to any 12 trials or to attend any trials at the request of 13 Union Carbide or their lawyers in any cases? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. Let'stalk about acouple of 16 things. 17 How were you first contacted after your 18 retirement in, I believe it was, 2001, to become 19 involved in these cases? 20 A. I was actually contacted while I was still 21 working. 22 Q. That was in 1996 you retired? 23 A. 1995. 24 Q. And, whathappened in 1995? How were you 10 11 12 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 contacted? 2 A. I was contacted by Allan Gershon from 3 Kelly, Drye & Warren. 4 Q. Did you get involved -- strike that. 5 The first deposition and the first 6 testimony that you would have given, that was in 7 2001, though, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. After being contacted in 1995, did you do 10 any work for either Allan Gershon, or any other 11 lawyers on behalf of Union Carbide, up until 2001? 12 A. Yes, I did. 13 Q. What type of work? 14 A. Primarily answering their questions with 15 regard to depositions that they had received. 16 Q. Were these written -- first I'll strike 17 that. 18 Do you know what answers to 19 interrogatories are? Do you know what 20 interrogatories are? 21 A. Not exactly, no. 22 Q. The questions that you would have been 23 answering back in 1995 and thereafter up until 24 2001, was this just an informal kind of meeting, or 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 were they trying to respond to let's say somebody's 2 -- a plaintiff's allegations in a lawsuit, if you 3 know? 4 MS. CLARK: I am just going to caution the 5 witness not to reveal any attorney-client 6 privileged communications. So, to the extent you 7 were being consulted while you were an employee 8 there, that may be privileged. And, if you have 9 concerns about that, we should discuss that. 10 THE WITNESS: I was there only one year, and I 11 retired in '96, and up till 2001, it was primarily 12 phone conversations, meetings, for clarification. 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. So, for example, if they had questions 15 about certain technical aspects or other issues, 16 they would be calling you to try and understand 17 what's going on? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. That's an interesting question. I should 20 back up. As we sit here today, are you currently 21 represented by counsel? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. So, you have retained this law firm to 24 represent you in these cases? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. When did that first come about that you 3 retained, and I'm sorry, is it the entire firm? 4 And, I don't even know the firm's name. I 5 apologize. 6 MS. CLARK: It's Mayer, Brown. That's fine. 7 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 8 Q. The Mayer, Brown firm, is that the firm 9 you retained? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. When is the first time you retained 12 Mayer, Brown? 13 A. In, I think it was, 2002. 14 Wait a minute. Let me think about that 15 again. 16 Could have been 2001 maybe. 17 Q. Do you know if it was before or after that 18 first deposition that you gave in May of 2001? 19 A. It was after. 20 Q. In May of 2001, that first deposition that 21 you gave, you weren't represented by counsel then, 22 is that correct? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 24 MS. MARSHALL: I will join in any objections. 13 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. You can answer it, if you know. 3 A. I am not sure whether I was being 4 represented or not. 5 Q. Fair enough. Good answer. Fair enough. 6 Let's do it this way. How did it come 7 about that you retained Mayer, Brown, or any other 8 lawyers, to represent you with respect to your 9 testimony? 10 A. Well, in this particular case, I was 11 subpoenaed. 12 Q. Let's go back to after 1996, when you 13 stopped working at Union Carbide, were you still 14 being contacted by lawyers from Union Carbide with 15 respect to Bakelite or asbestos containing 16 products? 17 A. On occasion, yes. 18 Q. How would that come about? 19 A. Telephone calls. 20 Q. Aside from Mr. Gershon, were there any 21 other individuals who were calling you? 22 A. Yes. He was replaced by Jonathan -23 Q. Schwartz? 24 A. What was that? 14 15 16 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 Q. Is it Schwartz? 2 A. No, not Schwartz. I don't recall the last 3 name. 4 Q. Glasser? 5 A. Glasser. 6 Q. Okay. So, from 1996 and thereafter, 7 either Allan Gershon or Jonathan Glasser, two 8 lawyers for Union Carbide, would have contacted 9 you? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Any other attorneys from 1996 to 2001 for 12 Union Carbide call you that you can recall? 13 A. None, no. 14 Q. You stated that it was after the first 15 deposition that you gave in 2001 that you retained 16 counsel? 17 A. I'm a little confused by retaining 18 counsel. I didn't ask for an attorney. I 19 responded to request to, you know, to provide 20 technical opinions. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. So, I don't regard that as retaining an 23 attorney. 24 Q. As you sit here today, do you believe you 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 have retained the law firm of Mayer, Brown? 2 MS. CLARK: I just want to object to the extent 3 that calls for a legal conclusion. As a lay 4 witness and not a lawyer, I don't know that he is 5 fully able to answer that, but go ahead. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. I'll ask it a different way that maybe - 8 I won't use the word retained. 9 Are you under the understanding that you 10 have employed Mayer, Brown to represent you in this 11 case? 12 A. I have asked them to. 13 Q. You have asked them to represent you? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Is there, first off, is there a charge for 16 them doing that? Does Mayer, Brown charge you for 17 doing that? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Has any law firm or any lawyers from 20 Union Carbide ever charged you for their 21 representation of you in any of these depositions 22 or testimony? 23 A. No. 24 I am still unclear about retention of a 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 lawyer. I am being asked to provide a service by a 2 lawyer. That doesn't mean I have retained a 3 lawyer. I mean, other than this particular case, 4 where I was subpoenaed. 5 Q. Okay. So, it's your understanding that 6 you were working for lawyers who represented 7 Union Carbide, not that they were working for you? 8 A. That's right. 9 Q. How would you classify that work that you 10 were doing for these lawyers? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection,vague, ambiguous. 12 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. If you can answer it, you can. If you 15 can't, you tell me to rephrase it. 16 A. I was providing my technical expertise. 17 Q. Okay. And, have you charged Union Carbide 18 or their lawyers for your time involved with that 19 work? 20 A. If it required follow-up, yes. 21 Q. When you say if it required follow-up, 22 what do you mean? 23 A. Telephone conversation I didn't charge, 24 unless it was telephone conference that went on for 17 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 a long time, and I still don't. If I am asked to 2 look into some matter for the attorney, then I 3 charge by the hour. 4 Q. And, if you're asked to look into 5 something for an attorney, what would be that 6 hourly charge? 7 A. $150 an hour. 8 Q. Has that beenyour charge since you first 9 started getting involved in this in 2001? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you also charge for any time prior to 12 2001 from 1996, when you stopped employment there, 13 to 2001? 14 A. I didnot, no. 15 Q. Do you also charge for your time for 16 coming to depositions such as this? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. The fee that you would charge 19 Union Carbide, would that be $150 an hour again? 20 A. For deposition, $200 anhour. 21 Q. So, if it's a deposition, it would be 22 $200 an hour. If it was other work reviewing 23 whatever it is or having conversations, that would 24 be 150 an hour? 18 19 20 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 A. That's right. 2 Q. How about if you had to come to trial to 3 testify, what's the charge for that? 4 A. For the trial also $200 an hour. 5 Q. Now, I understand, obviously, we are here 6 in Chicago today. How did you get to Chicago? 7 A. I flew out from Newark. 8 Q. Did you pay for that flight? 9 A. No. 10 Q. So, your expenses and your travel time and 11 things of that nature, that would also be - 12 Union Carbide would be paying for that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You were also kind enough to bring or your 15 attorney here provided this. I guess it's part of 16 an invoice, and it's got your name at the top, and 17 at the bottom it says one affidavit for Kate Clark 18 $150. 19 Does that represent one hours worth of 20 work? Is that what that means? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. I assume this is something that you 23 prepare in terms of a bill to be submitting to the 24 lawyers for Union Carbide to get paid? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. At some point in time, I understand there 3 was other information on this sheet, as well? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Would that have been work related to other 6 cases? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you have an idea as to how much money 9 you have charged or how many hours, if there is 10 some way you can do that, that you have charged 11 Union Carbide for your assistance in these matters 12 since you started in 2001? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, relevance. 14 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. You can answer, Mr. Martino, unless she 17 instructs you. 18 A. It's averaged about a week and a half of 19 work a year. 20 Q. When you say a week and a half, should I 21 do that in terms of 40 hours a week? 22 A. Yes. It would average roughly eight, 23 $10,000. 24 Q. $10,000 a year roughly? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. That would be starting in 2001 until 3 present? 4 A. Yes. Some years more, some years less. 5 Q. With respect tothis case, and you 6 understand we are here for the estate of 7 Clarence Bentley andhis wife, MonaBentley? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. For thiscase, do youhavean idea aside 10 from the $150 that you charged for that affidavit, 11 have there been any other charges billed to 12 Union Carbide? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you have any plans to submit additional 15 bills to Union Carbide for your time? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. That wouldinclude your time for today's 18 deposition, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Would that alsoincludeyour time 21 yesterday? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. How much time would you chargefor 24 yesterday? 21 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous. 2 THE WITNESS: I haven't figured it out yet. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. Would you charge for the time that it took 5 you to leave your house until you got here to 6 Chicago? 7 A. Yes. Travel time, yes. 8 Q. The travel time would be charged at the 9 same amount? 10 A. No, $75 an hour. 11 Q. 75 for the travel time. 12 And, yesterday, did you have the 13 opportunity to meet with and speak to any of the 14 lawyers at Mayer, Brown? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. I apologize. Ihaveto keep looking at 17 the mug. And, did you meet with Ms. Clark 18 yesterday? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How long did youspend with Ms. Clark 21 yesterday? 22 MS. CLARK: Objection, calls for revealing 23 privileged and work product communications. 24 You don't have to answer that. 22 23 24 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 MR. JAGOLINZER: You're instructing the witness 2 not to answer how long he spent with you yesterday? 3 MS. CLARK: You just strictly want to know the 4 amount of time he met with me? 5 MR. JAGOLINZER: That's exactly what I just 6 asked. 7 MS. CLARK: You can answer only that, sir. 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. The question, Mr. Martino, is how long did 10 you spend with Ms. Clark yesterday? How many 11 hours? 12 A. About four hours. 13 Q. Thank you. 14 A. That included lunch. 15 Q. Did she pay for lunch? 16 A. Yes, she did. 17 Q. Okay. Good. You worked for 18 Union Carbide, Mr. Martino, for over 47 years, is 19 that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you currently receive a pension from 22 Union Carbide? 23 A. Yes, I do. 24 Q. What is the amount of that pension? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 MS. CLARK: Objection, relevance. 2 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 3 THE WITNESS: I would prefer not to reveal my 4 personal finances. 5 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 6 Q. What I am looking for, and I'll tell you 7 what I am trying to do, Mr. Martino, so you 8 understand, and I can explain the objection. I am 9 trying to figure out how much money that you're 10 receiving from Union Carbide from any source, and 11 in terms of what that will be used for, that will 12 only be used for in terms of this case and in cases 13 that involve your testimony. And, if you do not 14 want to tell me that, you have that right, but that 15 is what I am asking for. 16 MS. CLARK: Same objection on that. We can 17 possibly re-visit that at a break, but I think the 18 witness has stated his preference, and I agree 19 that's not relevant to this matter. 20 MR. JAGOLINZER: I will tell you, and I don't 21 know, Kate, if you are licensed in the state of 22 Florida, in Florida all objections are preserved 23 until trial, except as to the form of the question. 24 And, all matters, whether or not you believe they 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 are relevant or not, are not proper grounds for 2 instructing the witness not to answer. 3 Whether or not they will be admitted at 4 trial will be another issue that the judge will 5 have to decide, but that is relevant and it is 6 discoverable information. I understand, if 7 Mr. Martino doesn't want to answer that, he can 8 certainly tell me he doesn't want to answer that. 9 I just wanted to explain to him what I was trying 10 to ask. And, if he tells me he doesn't want to 11 answer it, he can certainly do that. So, I'll just 12 ask it again. 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. Mr. Martino, would you mind telling me how 15 much of a pension you get from Union Carbide? 16 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 17 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 18 THE WITNESS: I would prefer not to answer 19 that. 20 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 21 Q. Mr. Martino, you were also kind enough to 22 bring with you today I guess this is a copy of your 23 resume? 24 A. Yes. 25 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentl 1 Q. Thank you. What I wanted to do was, and I 2 guess this will be pretty easy now, if you need 3 this, I am sure you don't. 4 A. No, I have another copy. 5 Q. What I wanted to do is I wanted to start 6 first with your educational career. I understand 7 that you graduated high school in Pennsylvania in 8 1944? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Thereafter, did you go to college? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Where did you go? 13 A. Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh. 14 Q. Did you receive a degree from 15 Carnegie Mellon? A. Yes. Q. What was the degree in? A. Chemical engineering. Q. Was that in 1948? A. Yes. 21 Q. In 1948, after you graduated from 22 Carnegie Mellon, what did you do next in terms of 23 your employment history? 24 A. I went directly to what was then called 26 27 28 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 the Bakelite Corporation. 2 (Whereupon, there was a 3 short interruption.) 4 THE WITNESS: I was hired by the Bakelite 5 Corporation. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. And, from -- that was in 1948, sir? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did you stay working for Union Carbide the 10 entire time up until your retirement in 1996? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you have any other employment aside 13 from Union Carbide during that time period? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Could you tell me briefly when you first 16 started working at you said it -- first of all, was 17 it Union Carbide when you first started working, or 18 was it the Bakelite Company? 19 A. It was called the Bakelite Corporation, 20 but it was owned, I think, by Union Carbide at that 21 time. 22 Q. Actually, let me back up. How did you 23 first come about getting that job in 1948? 24 A. Job interviews at the college. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Was it someone from the company was out at 2 the college? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And, then, I was asked to come to 6 Bound Brook for additional interviews. 7 Q. Your first position at Union Carbide or 8 the Bakelite Corporation in 1948, what was that? 9 A. Trainee in production. 10 Q. Trainee in production of what? 11 A. The production of many of their plastics. 12 Q. How long did you stay as a trainee? 13 A. Oh, almost a year. 14 Q. What types of things did you do as a 15 trainee for that one year period? 16 A. We were assigned to each department in 17 production for a short period of time to learn what 18 was done there. 19 Q. After that one year or so period, after 20 your trainee period was over, what was your next 21 position? 22 A. Research and development in polystyrene. 23 Q. First off, what is polystyrene? 24 A. It's a thermoplastic, plastic that will 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 melt if you heat it up, and it's what these 2 Styrofoam cups are made of. 3 Q. I'm sorry. Did you have an actual title 4 there, or were you just in the department? How did 5 they do that? Did they classify it at all? 6 A. There were various classification of 7 engineers. I think I came in at the lowest level. 8 Q. How long did you stay in that division, 9 the polystyrene division? 10 A. I'd have to refer to that. 11 MS. CLARK: I have one. 12 THE WITNESS: About nine years. 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. Would that be approximately from 19, and I 15 am trying to figure this out, too, 1949 to 1959, 16 that time frame? 17 A. Yes. I was transferred to the 18 polyethylene group. 19 Q. Okay. In '58? 20 A. In '58. 21 Q. So, from - 22 A. Then, in '59, I was moved again. 23 Q. Okay. Let's take from 19 -- well, 1948 to 24 let's just stop right now at '58, before we get to 29 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 the polyethylene group. 2 Did any of your work there involve 3 asbestos containing Bakelite? 4 A. No. 5 Q. 1958, I see you were promoted to project 6 scientist, and that's when you got into the 7 polyethylene group? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What was the projectscientist? What does 10 that mean? 11 A. It was a grade level. It's the first 12 significant promotion in the technical ladder. 13 Q. What did your duties entail in the 14 polyethylene group? 15 A. To develop new products for the customers 16 and provide technical service for those customers. 17 Q. Were you in 1958 asprojectscientist in 18 the polyethylene group, were you involved in 19 meeting with and speaking to customers? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Was there a specific geographic area that 22 you would meet customers or speak to customers? 23 A. Wherever they were located in the U.S. 24 Q. That would be with respect to any of the 30 31 32 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 polyethylene resins that were being manufactured? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. As part of that work in that group, did 4 that involve anything having to do with asbestos 5 containing Bakelite? 6 A. No. 7 Q. 1959, there is another change in your 8 employment. Can you tell me what that was? 9 A. I was -- became a group manager and had - 10 and it was a newly formed group or technical 11 service for all of the plastics work that were 12 being sold out of the Bound Brook area. 13 Q. Am I correct to assume that that is when 14 the first time you became involved with in any way 15 with respect to asbestos containing Bakelite at 16 Union Carbide? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Could you tell me what your job duties 19 were as manager of that group? 20 A. It was to manage the technical service for 21 all of the plastics that we were making at that 22 time in the Bound Brook area, and I had specialists 23 reporting to me who were skilled in each of those 24 areas. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 Q. When we are talking about technical 2 service, what types of things are we talking about? 3 What would technical service consist of? 4 A. Solving customer problems in regard to the 5 use of those plastics. 6 Q. What type of customer problems, if you 7 recall, would come up? Just a general idea. 8 A. Whether or not the product would meet the 9 customer's requirements in terms of how it 10 processed and in terms of whether it was -- had the 11 properties that they were looking for. 12 Q. You said you had specialists that you 13 oversaw as part of that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. How many specialists would you have or did 16 you have, excuse me? 17 A. At that time, 11 engineers, and each of 18 them had laboratory assistants. 19 Q. First off, the 11 engineers and these 20 laboratory assistants that we are talking about, 21 was this all at the Bound Brook facility? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Backing up, when you first started from 24 '48, and let's go to where we are now in '59, was 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 your career at Union Carbide always at the 2 Bound Brook facility? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. The 11 engineers and their laboratory 5 assistants who you said were specialists in terms 6 of this technical service, would they have contact 7 with any of Union Carbide's customers, or would 8 that have been your responsibility? 9 A. No, they had direct contact. 10 Q. Do you recall the names of any of those 11 engineers that you were overseeing in 1959? 12 A. Yes. Fred Ducca. 13 Q. Could you spell that? 14 A. D-U-C-C-A. 15 Q. I'm sorry a D or B? 16 A. D, D-U-C-C-A. 17 Q. Anybody else? 18 A. Vern Schroeder. 19 Q. Could you spell Schroeder? 20 A. S-C-H-R-O-E-D-E-R. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Bill Joyce. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. Joe Groel, G-R-O-E-L. 33 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. John Misko, M-I-S-K-O. Gus Fischer. 3 Q. I can spell that one. 4 A. F-I-S-C-H-E-R. 5 That's all I can remember right now. 6 Q. Do you know if Mr. Ducca is still alive? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. Do you know if Mr. Schroeder is still 9 alive? 10 A. No, he isn't. 11 Q. Do you know if Mr. Joyce is still alive? 12 A. Yes, he is. 13 Q. Do you know where Mr. Joyce lives? 14 A. Not presently, no. 15 Q. The last address or the last state and 16 city that you knew he was living in, do you know 17 where that was? Was that - 18 A. Reason I am smiling is he became the CEO 19 of Union Carbide, and he has since left, so I don't 20 know where he is now. 21 Q. But you do know he is still living? 22 A. He is still living, yes. 23 Q. When is the last time you would have 24 spoken to Mr. Joyce? 34 35 36 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 A. The year I retired. 2 Q. How about Mr. Groel? 3 A. He is dead. 4 Q. How about Mr. Misko? 5 A. He is dead. 6 Q. How about Mr. Fisher? 7 A. I don't know where he is. 8 Q. Do you know if he is alive? 9 A. I think he is. 10 Q. Do you know what Mr. Schroeder passed away 11 from? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. You can answer any question. She is 15 making legal objections, unless she tells you not 16 to. 17 A. All I can say he had multitude of health 18 problems, diabetes primarily. 19 Q. Do you know if he had any lung related 20 problems? 21 A. No, he had not. 22 Q. Mr. Groel, do you know what he passed away 23 from? 24 A. Heart attack. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Do you know what Mr. Misko passed away 2 from? 3 MS. CLARK: Same objection. You can answer. 4 THE WITNESS: That I don't know. 5 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 6 Q. Do you know if Mr. Misko had any lung 7 related problems? 8 A. No. 9 MS. CLARK: Same objection, foundation. You 10 can answer. 11 THE WITNESS: No. 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. Let's go back here. 1960 something 14 changed in your employment, as well, correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. Can you tell us about that? 17 A. Pardon? 18 Q. Could you tell us what that was what 19 happened in 1960? 20 A. I was transferred to group manager of the 21 Bakelite molding and laminating resonance group. 22 Q. What were your duties or job 23 responsibilities when you were transferred there in 24 1960? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Similar to what I had before, except that 2 it was related to that group of products and 3 included the development of new products. 4 Q. And, the group of products that you're 5 referring to, that's the Bakelite molding and 6 laminating resins? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. You remained in that position for 9 approximately ten years, is that correct? 10 A. 14 years. 11 Q. Okay. I see. 1970 you were promoted in 12 the same group, but you were promoted? 13 A. That's right. And, I moved in 1974. 14 Q. From 1960 to 1974, were you also located 15 in the Bound Brook facility? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. We'll get back to 1960 to 1974 in a 18 second, but just jumping ahead, you said something 19 changed in 1974 in terms of your employment. What 20 did you do next? 21 A. I was transferred again to group manager 22 of the low density polyethylene product development 23 group. 24 Q. How did that transfer come about? What 37 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 was the reason for that, do you know? 2 A. I asked for it. 3 Q. Okay. Why is that, if you recall? 4 A. I had 14 years in one area, and I wanted 5 to change. 6 Q. As part of that change in 1974, '74 and 7 after, when you did change that position, is it 8 fair to say that your responsibilities no longer 9 included anything having to do with any asbestos 10 containing Bakelite that Union Carbide may have 11 manufactured? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. 1980, Mr. Martino, you became involved in 14 wiring cable specialty plastics, is that correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What did that entail? 17 A. A group of thermo -- a family of 18 thermoplastic materials that were used to insulate 19 wire and cables. 20 Q. Any of that involve the use of asbestos? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Was this something that was being 23 developed at Union Carbide, or was this something 24 that was around for a while, should I say, this 38 39 40 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 type of thermoplastic? 2 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous. Go 3 ahead. 4 THE WITNESS: It was around for a while. 5 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 6 Q. Okay. Let's see. And, then, the last 7 position you held at Union Carbide, what was that, 8 sir? 9 A. Associate director. 10 Q. What did that involve? 11 A. It involved an expansion of my 12 responsibilities to the development of new products 13 and service for a lot more polyethylene products, 14 different applications. 15 Q. In 1996, you retired. Why was that? 16 A. I was getting old. I was 69. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. And decided that it was time. 19 Q. It was time. Okay. As part of your work 20 from 1959, and we'll go up through 1974, when you 21 switched out of that group, did any of your 22 responsibilities include marketing of your Bakelite 23 product? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 THE WITNESS: Assistance to marketing, but not 2 direct marketing. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. Did you ever make any decisions with 5 respect to during that time frame with respect to 6 how asbestos containing Bakelite would be marketed? 7 A. No. 8 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 9 THE WITNESS: No. 10 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 11 Q. Did you ever have responsibility from that 12 time period for purchasing any of the asbestos used 13 in Union Carbide asbestos containing Bakelite? 14 A. Not for the direct purchasing, no. 15 Q. When you said not for the direct 16 purchasing, is there -- was there any other 17 responsibility for the purchasing of the asbestos? 18 A. We would have to approve any new materials 19 or any new source. 20 Q. Did you -- first off, Union Carbide had 21 been using asbestos in some of their Bakelite 22 products prior to the time you started in that 23 group, correct? 24 A. Yes. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. From the time you were involved there from 2 '58 through '74, did you ever have the opportunity 3 or did you ever approve a new source of asbestos to 4 be used? 5 A. A different supplier, yes. 6 Q. When was that and who was the supplier, if 7 you recall? 8 A. I think it was -- I don't recall. 9 Q. Do you recall approximately the year or 10 no? 11 A. Only in roughly it was in the '60s. 12 Q. Okay. Some time in the '60s? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You do not recall the name of the supplier 15 of the asbestos that it was switched to, is that 16 correct? 17 A. I can only tell you the name of somebody I 18 didn't approve. 19 Q. Who didn't you approve? 20 A. Calidria. 21 Q. Calidria would be Union Carbide asbestos 22 from their mine in California, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. At some point in time, while you were 41 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 working there from '59 to '74, was Calidria ever 2 used in any of the asbestos containing Bakelite? 3 A. Only for evaluation purposes. 4 Q. So, there was a test run done on that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What happened and why did you not approve 7 that fiber? 8 A. It had -- it changed the product enough so 9 that we would have to reformulate, and it was - 10 and we would -- that would have involved a lot of 11 work. 12 Q. Do you know why it changed the product? 13 A. Not in terms of what, you know, the 14 chemistry part, no, just that it did. 15 Q. How about in terms of what it actually did 16 to the final product? 17 A. In terms of -18 Q. In terms of why it wouldn't work or be 19 acceptable for you. 20 A. We would have had to change the resin 21 contents to get the right flow. 22 Q. Would you have had to use more resin or 23 less resin to get the right flow? 24 A. More. 42 43 44 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 Q. Had you ever, and while we are speaking 2 about Calidria, had you ever been out to 3 Union Carbide's mine in California? 4 A. No. 5 Q. How did come about that the idea of 6 switching to Calidria asbestos from whatever 7 supplier was being used, how did that come about? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. Go ahead. 9 THE WITNESS: As any other supplier, they 10 approached us. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. When you say, "they approached us," do you 13 recall who at Union Carbide approached you to - 14 A. Not at Union Carbide. From Calidria. 15 Q. Do you recall who that was? 16 A. Just a sales manager. 17 Q. Was that John Meyers? 18 A. I don't remember. 19 Q. Do you know who John Meyers is? 20 A. I think I met him. 21 Q. Okay. Do you recall whose asbestos you 22 were using during that time when you had considered 23 switching to Calidria or you did that test run? 24 A. Carry Mines (phonetic). 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Was that true for the entire period that 2 you were working in that group from '59 through 3 '74? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Do you also, and first off, the asbestos 6 that you were getting from Carry Mines or 7 Union Carbide was getting from Carry Mines, excuse 8 me, was that short or long fiber? 9 A. Short. 10 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, foundation. Go 11 ahead. 12 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 13 MS. CLARK: You can answer. 14 THE WITNESS: Short. 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. You're aware that at some point in time 17 Union Carbide was using long fiber for some of 18 their asbestos containing Bakelite, correct? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, assumes 20 facts not in evidence, vague, ambiguous. 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 23 Q. Do you know where that long fiber was 24 purchased from? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Vermont. 2 Q. I'm sorry. Vermont? 3 A. Vermont. I think that was the name of the 4 company. 5 Q. I understand you hold six U.S. patents? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What are those patents in? 8 A. I have to really think back now. 9 One was on the use of a cured thermolic 10 molding compound granules in polystyrene used for 11 wall tile. 12 I think I'll start with the most recent 13 and go back. It's easier to remember. 14 Another is the addition of mineral oil to 15 polyethylene in the unipole reactor. 16 Another was on the development of a 17 polyethylene thermal setting compound, could it be 18 injection molded. 19 I can't remember the others. 20 Q. Were they in the area of polyethylene 21 products? Is that a fair way to characterize them? 22 A. There was one another one in polystyrene 23 where we added another plastic styrene equivalent 24 co-polymer that made the material stampable, and 45 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 you could use it in the punch press, but they were 2 primarily in the thermoplastic area. 3 Q. Mr. Martino, when is the first time that 4 you had heard that asbestos could cause disease? 5 A. The latter part of the '60s through the 6 publicity that occurred around Johns Manville. 7 Q. Did you hear in the latter part of the 8 '60s any information about potential healthhazards 9 of asbestos from Union Carbide? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous. 11 THE WITNESS: I can't recall any specific 12 letter or directive, you know, from within the 13 organization. There was a lot of literature being 14 passed around. 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. Were you ever, while you were working from 17 1959 to 1974 in the Bakelite group, were you ever 18 sent to any training programs with respect to 19 health hazards or potential health hazards of 20 asbestos? 21 A. Not formal training programs, no. 22 Q. When you say not formal training programs, 23 was there any other sort of training programs 24 during that time frame? 46 47 48 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 A. We had weekly or monthly safety meetings 2 at which all safety related issues would be 3 discussed. 4 Q. From 1959 to 1974, that would include 5 asbestos? 6 A. During the latter part of those years, 7 yes. 8 Q. And, were employees who were working in 9 the production of Bakelite that would have involved 10 the use of asbestos, were they provided with any 11 type of protection or -- protection? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous. Go 13 ahead. 14 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 15 THE WITNESS: I was not managing the production 16 area. To answer that, I would only have to say 17 what I observed. 18 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 19 Q. Okay. Thank you. So, you have never 20 observed the manufacturing process of asbestos 21 containing Bakelite? 22 A. Oh, yes. 23 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes his 24 testimony. Go ahead. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Be 1 THE WITNESS: What I am trying to say is I 2 observed what was happening in the manufacture, and 3 I did observe the process. I can't go into 4 specific details as to what the production people 5 were told and what they were wearing. I know they 6 were told, given information, they were provided 7 with protective equipment. 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. I am just trying to get this clear, as 10 well. So, it's based on your personal knowledge of 11 seeing the manufacturing process? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You had observed individuals working in 14 that process or that procedure who were taking 15 precautions, is that fair? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And, as part of your work during that time 18 frame in the Bakelite group, you also are aware 19 that those individuals were given information about 20 how to protect themselves from potential dangers of 21 asbestos? 22 A. Specifically what they were told, I don't 23 know. All I know is that they were given 24 information. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. So, with respect to not what specifically 2 was told to those employees, leaving that aside, 3 you are under the impression and you do believe 4 that they were told about the potential hazards of 5 asbestos? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Mr. Martino, when is the first time you 8 heard that asbestos exposure could cause the 9 disease mesothelioma? 10 A. During one of those depositions. I don't 11 recall which one. 12 Q. So, the first time --is it correct to 13 assume that the first time you heard the word or 14 the disease mesothelioma would have been some time 15 in 2001 or after? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. I know we spoke about this briefly earlier 18 about an affidavit that you signed in this case. 19 Do you recall that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. I understand that currently, when you're 22 asked to, you do give depositions or trial 23 testimony on behalf of Union Carbide, correct? 24 A. Yes. 49 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. You, also, obviously, from time to time, 2 fill out affidavits for Union Carbide? 3 A. I sign them. 4 Q. Sign affidavits. 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. Okay. Are there any other written work 7 that you do for Union Carbide with respect to these 8 types of cases? 9 A. Other than the affidavits? 10 Q. Yes, sir. 11 A. I don't recall any. 12 Q. Since you -- since your first deposition 13 in 2001, have you reviewed any Union Carbide 14 documents or internal correspondence that would 15 have dated back to the time frame in which you were 16 working in the Bakelite group? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you recall approximately when you did 19 that? 20 A. Well, many of the documents came up in the 21 depositions. 22 Q. The first time that you would have seen 23 these documents, aside from whether or not you saw 24 them back in the time frame you were working, would 50 51 52 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 have been in 2001 and after? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Who provided you with those documents? 4 Was it, in other words, someone like myself, the 5 plaintiff's attorney, asking questions about 6 documents, or attorneys for Union Carbide at Mayer, 7 Brown, or any other law firm? 8 A. Both. 9 Q. Do you keep copies of any of those 10 documents? 11 A. Well, copies, I have the copies of the 12 depositions, which contain the ones that are 13 relevant. Beyond that, I may have some other 14 documents, but nothing -- those are the most 15 relevant. 16 Q. Okay. First off, the copies of the 17 depositions that I have, are these your copies or 18 are these counsel's copies? 19 A. They are copies of what I have. Mayer, 20 Brown was kind enough -- well, Ms. Clark was kind 21 enough to do it for me, so I don't have to carry it 22 out. 23 Q. The copies of the depositions that you 24 have, they have actual exhibits or documents 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Be 1 attached to them? 2 A. Yes, and so do those. 3 Q. Well, I don't know about that. 4 A. Well, they should. 5 Q. They should. That's what I am trying to 6 get at, so at least I can know what we are talking 7 about. I don't think these do have any documents 8 in the back of them. 9 MR. JAGOLINZER: Ms. Clark, do you have a 10 problem getting me those documents that were 11 attached to Mr. Martino's depositions? 12 MS. CLARK: We can talk about that at the 13 break. I didn't realize they were attached or not. 14 Shouldn't be a problem. 15 MR. JAGOLINZER: That's okay. 16 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 17 Q. When you retired from Union Carbide in 18 1996, did you have in your possession any, I don't 19 know, any documents that would pertain to any 20 Bakelite products? 21 A. I only had the 1973 phenolic molding 22 material product guide. 23 Q. Do you still have that in your possession? 24 A. Yes. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Have you looked through that guide since 2 2001? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Does that guide mention asbestos 5 containing molding compound for Bakelite? 6 MS.CLARK: Objection, foundation. 7 THE WITNESS: I would have to take another look 8 at it. 9 MR. JAGOLINZER: I got an idea. Do you mind if 10 we take a quick break? I might beable tospeed 11 this up, and I would like to use therestroom. Do 12 you mind? 13 (Whereupon, there 14 was a short break.) 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. Mr. Martino, the 1973 phenolic molding 17 guide that you have at your home, how big is that? 18 How thick isthat? 19 A. About that size. I would say eight and a 20 half inches by five and a half. 21 MR. JAGOLINZER: Counsel, do you have a problem 22 of getting me a copy of that one? 23 THE WITNESS: You have it. 24 MS. CLARK: Yes, I believe. 53 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley I MR. JAGOLINZER: I don't need it today, but - 2 MS. CLARK: That's fine. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. I didn't ask you back when we were on our 5 questions of pension and those things. Do you 6 currently own stock in Dow Chemical or 7 Union Carbide? 8 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 9 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 10 THE WITNESS: In Dow Chemical, yes. II BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. From 19 -- if we can do it this way, 13 Mr. Martino, from 1959 until 1974, whileyou were 14 part of the we'll call it the Bakelitegroup, is 15 that okay? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. While you were part of that group, how 18 many employees, Union Carbide employees, were there 19 in that group, just in that group? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 21 THE WITNESS: What was that time period again? 22 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 23 Q. Just when you were in that group from '59 24 to '74. If you want to break it up, we can do 54 55 56 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 that, as well. 2 A. I think if you break it up, it will be 3 better. 4 Q. Okay. How should we break it up? Should 5 we do -6 A. Five years at a time. 7 Q. Let's do when you first started in '59 and 8 let's go to '64. How is that? 9 A. My first years -- first five years was 10 about 11 or 12 employees. 11 Q. As long as we are on that first five 12 years, do you have -- do you know in terms of 13 volume or in terms of revenue how the sales were 14 for Union Carbide's Bakelite? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague. 16 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 17 THE WITNESS: Now, you say how the sales were, 18 you mean how much we were selling? 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. Correct. We'll start with that. 21 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 22 THE WITNESS: I would have to look at the 23 records again. I could only give you an 24 approximate figure. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. First off, have you seen records in the 3 past four years that would show the amount of sales 4 in terms of volume that Union Carbide was doing 5 back in that time period? 6 A. In the early '60s? 7 Q. Yes, sir. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. In terms of right now, because we may be 10 lucky enough to get those documents, maybe they are 11 in there, and I'll look in my own stack, as well, 12 but what I want to do is just in terms of 13 approximation, is there a way you can approximate 14 for me the first five years in terms of the volume? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague, 16 ambiguous. 17 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 18 THE WITNESS: Well, without having the records 19 in front of me, I could only say that it was in the 20 45 million to 55 million pound a year category. It 21 would vary year by year. I would have to look at 22 the records to give you more specific than that. 23 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 24 Q. Okay. And, I understand that's just an 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 approximate number. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Would that have been true the entire time, 4 or was that just in the five-year period, the 5 entire five-year period, you were there? 6 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 7 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 8 THE WITNESS: It went down to roughly 45, 48. 9 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 10 Q. Would that have been at the end of your - 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. I want to focus again on that just 13 the first five-year period from '59 to '64. 14 How many sales offices did Union Carbide 15 or the Bakelite group have for selling its 16 Bakelite? 17 A. I can't give you the exact number. 18 Q. Werethese salesoffices located in one 19 geographic area, or were they spread out throughout 20 the country? 21 A. Spread out throughoutthe country. 22 Q. Do you know if it was more than five sales 23 offices during that time period? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 57 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 THE WITNESS: In that area, yes. 2 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Again, I -- you know, I don't have -- I am 5 trying to remember back 40 years, but I am giving 6 you a ballpark figure about half a dozen. 7 Q. Thank you. I understand these are all 8 ballpark numbers, and I am just asking you to do 9 your best approximation. 10 From 1959 to 1964, was there any other 11 facility manufacturing Bakelite aside from the 12 Bound Brook facility? 13 A. In the U.S.? 14 Q. Yes, sir. 15 A. Phenolic resins, yes. 16 Q. Where was that being manufactured? 17 A. In California, the plant, and in 18 Merriette, Ohio. 19 Q. In terms of molding compound, the answer 20 would be no? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Why is that, if you know? Why would those 23 plants only be manufacturing the resins and not the 24 molding compound? 58 59 60 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. You can 2 answer. 3 THE WITNESS: They were located near large 4 customers, and those large customers used - 5 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 6 Q. Resin products? 7 A. They used resins. The plywood industry 8 out in California. 9 Q. So, then, is it fair to assume that the 10 Bound Brook, New Jersey facility was supplying 11 Bakelite to the entire country? 12 A. Yes. 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. Let's take the next five-year period, if 16 we could. Let's go from '65 to '70. 17 In terms of employees in that Bakelite 18 group, how many employees were there? 19 A. Actually, I think the number -- number of 20 people stayed the same. There were organizational 21 changes. The number of people stayed the same. 22 Q. And, from 1970 to 1974, how about the 23 number of employees, then, in that group? 24 A. Towards the end of that period, we were 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 down to maybe -- let's see. I gave you the figure 2 maybe ten -- what did I give you before? 3 Q. 11. 4 A. And, I am giving you a ballpark figure. 5 We were probably down to eight or nine. 6 Q. I guess the last question that I was 7 asking with respect to where the phenolic molding 8 compounds were being manufactured only focused on 9 '59 to '64. 10 How about from '65 through '74, were those 11 also only being manufactured at the Bound Brook 12 facility? 13 A. '65 through -14 Q. Through '74. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Prior to you starting in this group in 17 1959, were the Bakelite molding compounds being 18 manufactured anywhere else aside from the 19 Bound Brook facility? 20 A. Prior? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. In the U.S.? 23 Q. Yes, sir. 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 THE WITNESS: No. 2 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. I understand that the phenolic molding 5 compounds also were being manufactured in Mexico, 6 is that correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What time frame were they being 9 manufactured in Mexico? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 11 THE WITNESS: I can't give you the exact years. 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. Was it during the 1970s? 14 A. It was during the '60s. 15 Q. Do you know if it was also during the 16 '50s? 17 A. I don't remember the date that plant was 18 opened. 19 Q. Did you ever have the opportunity to visit 20 that plant? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. On how many occasions? 23 A. Two or three. 24 Q. Those two or three visits to the plant in 61 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Mexico, what was the purpose of you going there? 2 A. To determine how they could improve their 3 business. 4 Q. Would that be to determine how they could 5 improve their business in terms of manufacturing or 6 in terms of selling? 7 A. Both. 8 Q. In terms of -- in terms of selling, the 9 plant in Mexico, what was the geographic area that 10 it serviced? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 12 THE WITNESS: Just for Mexico? I don't know if 13 there were exports. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. How many employees were -- did you observe 16 working at the Mexico plant when you visited? 17 A. I didn't have the occasion to see all of 18 them. I only dealt with a certain number. 19 Q. Do you have any idea as to the amount of 20 pounds per year that Mexico plant was 21 manufacturing? 22 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 23 THEWITNESS: Not exactly, no. 24 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 62 63 64 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 Q. Do you know if it would have been more or 2 less than what the Bound Brook facility was 3 producing? 4 A. Oh, less. 5 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. Would that be less than half of what the 8 Bound Brook facility - 9 A. Yes. 10 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 11 You have to give me a chance to object, before 12 you answer. 13 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. Let's get some of these easy ones out of 16 the way. You never met Dr. Leo Bakelite, is that 17 correct? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Never met his son, either? 20 A. No. I assume you have heard about the 21 son. 22 Q. You are aware that Bakelite is a 23 registered trademark of Union Carbide? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, assumes 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 facts not in evidence. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 MR. JAGOLINZER: Well, gee, now they are in 4 evidence. 5 MS. CLARK: That's incorrect, counsel, but that 6 will come out later. 7 MR. JAGOLINZER: Okay. 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. Let's see. Union Carbide -- or you are 10 aware that Union Carbide was selling, let's see, 11 phenolic resins and molding compounds until 1975, 12 is that correct? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. Is it your understanding, Mr. Martino, 17 that asbestos containing Bakelite would be widely 18 used in the electrical field in the 1950s, '60s and 19 '70s? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous, 21 foundation. 22 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 23 THE WITNESS: It would be used. Widely used, 24 that I would have a problem with. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. It would be used. Is it fair to say that 3 asbestos containing Bakelite would have been used 4 in electrical applications in the '50s, '60s and 5 '70s? 6 A. Yes. 7 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague,ambiguous. 8 MR. JAGOLINZER: Dawn, you want to join in your 9 co-counsel's objection, whichyou really don't have 10 to do, but - 11 MS. MARSHALL: Sure. 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. Did you ever, Mr. Martino, work in the 14 electrical field yourself? 15 A. Only during the period of time I was in 16 the navy. 17 Q. During that time period in the navy, you 18 never worked with asbestos containing Bakelite, is 19 that correct? 20 A. At that time, I didn't know what Bakelite 21 was. 22 Q. To your knowledge, did you ever work with 23 asbestos containing Bakelite, while you were in the 24 navy? 65 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Knowing after I knew more about it, yes. 2 Q. Did you ever have the opportunity to 3 drill, saw or cut into a piece of molded asbestos 4 containing Bakelite? 5 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. You can answer. 8 A. In the laboratory, yes. 9 Q. How would you go about doing that? 10 A. Just with a typical drill. 11 Q. What would be the purpose of you doing 12 that in the laboratory? 13 A. To measure the wear on the drill. 14 Q. During any of that work, did you ever have 15 the opportunity to measure the amount of asbestos 16 fibers being released from that drilling? 17 A. When we became aware of asbestos becoming 18 a problem, I think some tests were run in the area. 19 It was not common practice to drill. 20 Q. When you first -- you said when we became 21 aware of the problems with asbestos. Who is the we 22 that you're referring to? 23 A. My group in general. You know, the people 24 in my group. 66 67 68 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 Q. You're not here to tell us what 2 Union Carbide as a corporation knew about the 3 hazards of asbestos or when they knew it; is that 4 fair? 5 A. I am only here - 6 MS. CLARK: I am just -- objection to the 7 extent the witness is a lay witness, doesn't know 8 the difference between corporate representative and 9 an individual notice, but go ahead. 10 THE WITNESS: I can only tell you what I knew. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. That's all I was getting at. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Thank you. You mentioned that at some 15 point in time someone may have run tests on the 16 asbestos containing Bakelite, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. The testing that you're talking about, 19 would that be testing that was done in terms of the 20 manufacturing process? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous. 22 THE WITNESS: What tests are you referring to? 23 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 24 Q. Well, actually, that's what I am trying to 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 get out. Let me rephrase that. Let's do this a 2 different way. First off, do you know if there 3 were any tests run at any point in time while you 4 were working in the Bakelite group on asbestos 5 containing Bakelite on the compound itself to 6 determine how much asbestos fibers may be released 7 into the air? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Tell me about that testing what was that 10 like. 11 A. We took a drum of phenolic compound that 12 contained 30 percent asbestos and poured it into 13 another drum under the worst possible conditions, 14 no ventilation, and then measured the fibers in the 15 air. 16 Q. Who measured -- I'm sorry. 17 A. We also did that with products containing 18 less asbestos. 19 Q. Who measured the asbestos in the air? 20 A. We had a safety engineer who was 21 knowledgeable in that area. 22 Q. And, what was that safety engineer's name? 23 A. Doug Neal. 24 Q. Do you know if Doug is still alive? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Do you know where Mr. Neal is currently 3 living? 4 A. North Plainfield. 5 Q. New Jersey? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did you ever run any tests on any end 8 products that would contain the asbestos containing 9 Bakelite to determine whether or not asbestos 10 fibers were released? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, ambiguous foundation. 12 THE WITNESS: This is on the molded product? 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. Yes, sir. 15 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 16 THE WITNESS: Under what condition? How used? 17 Just rubbing it, or what? 18 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 19 Q. Let's take that -- write that down, break 20 that down, and let's first start in any way 21 whatsoever. 22 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 23 THE WITNESS: The molded parts are not drilled 24 or sanded, so there is no reason to do that. They 69 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 are molded with the holes in it into shape and 2 size, so I can't say that there was no reason to 3 run any tests. 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. Regardless of whether or not there was any 6 reason to run any tests, do you know if any tests 7 were run on any of the molded compounds -- the 8 asbestos containing molded compounds being 9 manipulated, being drilled into orsawed or 10 anything of that nature? 11 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 12 THE WITNESS: I haven't found any documentation 13 that shows that that was done. I vaguely recall we 14 might have done it. 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. What type of documents have you been 17 looking through to try and determine that? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes his 19 testimony. 20 THE WITNESS: Only what I have seen in, you 21 know, in depositions and been shown in discussions. 22 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 23 Q. So, the only documents that you would be 24 able to look to to determine or to confirm whether 70 71 72 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 or not any tests were done on finished products 2 would be documents that were given to you either by 3 through a plaintiff's lawyer or by lawyers for 4 Union Carbide? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. During the time from 1959 to 1974, while 7 you were working in the Bakelite group, did you 8 have a sales department? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. The sales departments were responsible for 11 directly dealing with customers? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. At some point in time, there was an 14 individual by the name of Peter Potter, who was the 15 marketing manager, is that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And, do you know if Mr. Potter is still 18 living? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. When is the last time you spoke with 21 Mr. Potter? 22 A. Couple of years ago. 23 Q. Was the purpose of that conversation 24 anything having to do with any of the issues in 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 this case? 2 A. In your case? 3 Q. In asbestos case in general. 4 A. Indirectly, yes. 5 Q. When you say indirectly yes, did that 6 conversation involve you asking Mr. Potter if he 7 has a recollection of certain things or something 8 of that nature? 9 A. I was interested in where he got his 10 volumes of sales and percentage market share. 11 Q. When you say where he got his, are you 12 talking about documentation or - 13 A. Yes, whether he had any documentation. 14 Q. Did Mr. Potter have any documentation 15 about sales? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did Mr. Potter have any other 18 documentation from that time period? 19 A. No. He said he threw it all -- it all got 20 wet in his basement, and he threw it out. 21 Q. Now, Mr. Potter, he was working in the 22 Bakelite group before you started in that group, is 23 that correct? 24 A. He never worked in that group. He became 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 market manager. 2 Q. Was he the marketing manager before you 3 got into the group? 4 A. About the same time. 5 Q. Aside from Mr. Potter, are there any other 6 former Union Carbide employees that you have spoken 7 with since 2001 aside from lawyers? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection, over broad, ambiguous. 9 THE WITNESS: I socialize with a lot of 10 ex-employees, so -- and I play Bridge every week - 11 every month. 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. I knew that. 14 A. So... 15 Q. I may ask a better question, then. Are 16 there any other individuals or ex-employees -- ex 17 Union Carbide employees, like Mr. Potter, who you 18 discussed anything concerning the Bakelite group or 19 asbestos in the past three or four years since you 20 started doing this? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection, over broad, vague. Go 22 ahead. 23 THE WITNESS: I have talked to Doug Neal. I 24 had one conversation with Dawn Gould. 73 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. Anybody else? 3 A. That's about it. 4 Q. When did you speak to Doug Neal? 5 A. About two years ago. 6 Q. Do you recall what you discussed with 7 Mr. Neal? 8 A. He was being deposed the same time I was 9 for Newport News. 10 Q. Aside from the fact that he was being 11 deposed along the same time that you were, do you 12 recall what you discussed with Mr. Neal? 13 MS. CLARK: I am just going to object and 14 caution the witness to the extent you were acting 15 at the direction of attorneys, if you were, that 16 may be work product or privileged communications. 17 THE WITNESS: The only thing was timing of the 18 deposition, nothing specific. 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. You don't recall discussing or asking 21 Mr. Neal if he had any documents from that era or 22 anything of that nature? No? 23 A. I think I did ask him at one time. I 24 mentioned earlier about the drilling tests and that 74 75 76 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 we had to run -- that I thought we had run the air 2 sampling, and I asked him if he could recall doing 3 it and whereit was. 4 Q. Didherecall doing that? 5 A. No,hedidn't recall. 6 Q. After that you also said you spoke to 7 someone Don - 8 A. Gould. 9 Q. -- Gould? 10 A. G-O-U-L-D. 11 Q. Who is Don Gould or who was Don Gould? 12 Who is he, if he is still here? 13 A. He was involved in the packaging area. 14 Q. Where does Mr. Gould live? 15 A. I think he is -- I don't have exact 16 location. 17 Q. Do you know the state? 18 A. In New England. 19 Q. How long ago did you speak to Mr. Gould? 20 A. That was about two years ago, also. 21 Q. So, all these conversations, they were 22 more or less around the same time period? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do you recall what you discussed with 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 Mr. Gould? 2 A. I asked him about when we had started 3 labeling our products with regard to containing 4 asbestos. 5 Q. What did Mr. Gould tell you? 6 A. He didn't have any -- he didn't recall the 7 exact date. 8 Q. Did Mr. Gould have any package -- I'm 9 sorry. Any documents from that era? 10 A. I think he mentioned that anything he had 11 was turned over to the attorneys. 12 Q. Do you know if Mr. Gould was deposed, as 13 well? Did they take a deposition of Mr. Gould, as 14 well, if you know? 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. In terms of packaging, the Union Carbide's 17 phenolic Bakelite molding compound, that would come 18 in a variety of different packaging, is that 19 correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. It came in paper bags? 22 A. Up to -- the paper bags were eliminated at 23 some point in time. Exactly when, I don't recall. 24 I'm sorry. I'll go back. Let's go back to paper 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 bag. Yes, paper bags. They were not eliminated. 2 Well, they were changed to plastic bags at one 3 point. 4 Q. Just talking about the paper bags for a 5 minute, do you recall the approximate weight of 6 those bags, how big they were? 7 A. 50 pounds. 8 Q. Do you recall when they switched over to 9 plastic? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay. In terms of plastic bags, what was 12 the size of those bags? 13 A. Same. 14 Q. 50 pounds, as well? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. They also came in something called gaylord 17 containers? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What is a gaylord container? 20 A. About a thousand pounds. 21 Q. Could you describe for me what a gaylord 22 container would look like? 23 A. It is a big box on a skid, and it's about 24 the same size as a typical wooden pellet. 77 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Approximately six feet or - 2 A. Five feet by five feet, and about the same 3 depth. I don't know if that's exact dimension, but 4 it's in that ballpark. 5 Q. They also came in, or should I say 6 Union Carbide also packaged them in cardboard 7 drums? 8 A. Yes, but those were eliminated some time 9 in the, you know, during the period of time I was 10 there. 11 Q. Do you know if that was in the '60s or in 12 the '70s that those were -- those carbide drums 13 were eliminated? 14 A. I don't remember. 15 Q. Do you know a Kenneth Atkins? 16 A. Yes. Kenneth or Keith? 17 Q. I thought it was Kenneth. It could be 18 Keith. 19 Is there somebody by the name of 20 Mr. Atkins that you know? 21 A. There is a Keith Atkins, yes. 22 Q. Keith Atkins, did he work for 23 Union Carbide? 24 A. Yes. 78 79 80 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 Q. In what department? 2 A. Oh, he had a variety of jobs. He was in 3 sales, marketing, production, polyethylene. He was 4 in charge of a business group in Danbury, 5 polyethylene. 6 Q. Do you know if he currently resides in 7 Danbury? 8 A. No. 9 Q. No you don't know or no he doesn't? 10 A. He doesn't. 11 Q. Do you know where he resides? 12 A. No. 13 Q. When is the last time you spoke to 14 Keith Atkins? 15 A. At my retirement party. 16 Q. March 31st, 1996? 17 A. Well, it was a few days before that, but 18 it was at the end of March. 19 Q. Regardless of how those molding materials 20 came packaged, whether it was the gaylord 21 containers or the paper bags or the cardboard 22 drums, the name Bakelite would always be printed on 23 any of those containers, is that correct? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, ambiguous, 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 vague. 2 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 3 Q. You can answer. 4 A. It would be printed, not necessarily on, 5 you know, it would be on labels put on, and 6 sometimes it's printed on the back. 7 Q. During the time from 1959 to 1974, who was 8 the marketing manager responsible for advertising 9 of the Bakelite phenolic compound? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. If you know. 13 A. Who was in charge of advertising? 14 Q. Yes. 15 A. Marketing manager made those decisions. 16 Q. Who was the marketing manager back then? 17 A. During the '60s? 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. Peter Potter. 20 Q. Was Peter Potter the marketing manager 21 during your entire time in the Bakelite group? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you recall, Mr. Martino, a little 24 earlier I was asking you about long fiber asbestos 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 in some of the Bakelite products? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What type of application would that have 4 been used for? 5 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, ambiguous. 6 MS. MARSHALL: Join. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't know the specific 8 applications. 9 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 10 Q. Long fiber asbestos, that would have been 11 used in Bakelite products, would that have been 12 used for high voltage switch gear? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered, 14 foundation. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 16 MS. CLARK: Foundation. Let me finish. 17 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Jumping the gun. 18 MS. CLARK: Asked andanswered, foundation, 19 ambiguous. Go ahead. 20 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 21 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 22 Q. I want to just do something here. I want 23 to show you, Mr. Martino, the deposition that was 24 taken in the Yeager case, the first deposition that 81 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 you gave in 2001, and I just want to show you a 2 question that was asked to you and your answer and 3 see if that refreshes your recollection as to what 4 type of product or what type of application the 5 long fiber asbestos would be used in. And, it 6 starts on Page 64. And, if you go look at 7 Line 7, sir, through the end of the page, if you 8 could. 9 MS. CLARK: Don't answer that. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, I see that. 11 MS. CLARK: I am going to object to the 12 improper attempt to refresh his recollection. 13 What's the question? 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. Actually, all I asked was does that 16 refresh your recollection as to what type of 17 application the long fiber asbestos would be used 18 in. 19 MS. CLARK: Same objection and 20 mischaracterizing the testimony. 21 THE WITNESS: Since this deposition, I have 22 tried to find more information on that product, and 23 I have had difficulty finding more information on 24 where it was used. 82 83 84 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 This was my -- at the time what I thought 2 it was used for. Since then, I am not sure whether 3 it was actually used for that purpose. 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. At that point in time, before you looked 6 at any information or searched for any other 7 documentation that might back that up, what was 8 your understanding of the type of application for 9 the long fiber? 10 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 11 THE WITNESS: I made the assumption that since 12 it had a high impact strength, that it would be 13 used where switch gear required high impact 14 strength. 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. In some of those places, that was power 17 houses, is that correct? 18 A. Yes, which is where they do need the 19 impact strength. But I have learned since then to 20 be more careful about what I know and don't know. 21 In this case I thought I knew. 22 Q. In 2001, that was before -- that was the 23 first deposition you gave, correct? 24 A. Yes. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. In 2001, you were asked a question with 2 respect to -- can I see that for a second? 3 Thank you. 4 You were asked -- let's see -- what type 5 of application the long fiber asbestos was good 6 for, and at that point in time it was you were 7 talking about the high voltage switch gear, right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. That was your understanding back in 2001? 10 A. That was my best guess, yes. 11 Q. Okay. And, since 2001, you have looked 12 around through documents at whatever was provided 13 for you to try and either confirm or deny that, is 14 that correct? 15 A. Yes, I looked for data sheets, and I 16 didn't find any. 17 Q. Because you didn't find any data sheets 18 that confirmed that, you now believe that that is 19 incorrect? 20 A. Not that it's incorrect. I can't back it 21 up. 22 Q. You just after looking -- I'm sorry. 23 A. I just don't have the proof. 24 Q. Okay. So, after this deposition, what you 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 tried to do is you tried to look for documentation 2 that would back that up? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. You weren't able to find and you weren't 5 provided with any documentation that backed that 6 up? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Before this deposition, actually, and look 9 at this, I already put it in the wrong way, in 10 2001, you spoke to a former Union Carbide employee 11 by the name of Phil Thomas, is that correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Mr. Thomas, he was your boss at some point 14 in time, is that correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What period of time was Mr. Thomas your 17 boss? 18 A. From 1960 to approximately 1970. 19 Q. Mr. Thomas is still living? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And, do you know -- he lives in 22 New Jersey? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do you know if Mr. Thomas has ever been 85 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 deposed? 2 A. No. No, he hasn't. 3 Q. Okay. Have you regularly spoken to 4 Mr. Thomas since the deposition in 2001? 5 A. Socially, yes. 6 Q. So, you see Mr. Thomas on a social basis? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did Mr. Thomas provide you with any 9 information as to what documents may exist today? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Did Mr. Thomas have any documents in his 12 possession? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you know if Mr. Thomas has spoken to 15 any attorneys for Union Carbide? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 17 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 18 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 19 Q. During your time in the Bakelite group, 20 Mr. Martino, from 1959 through 1974, did you have 21 any responsibility for determining what would go on 22 the label or the logo of any of the Bakelite 23 products that were being manufactured? 24 A. No. 86 87 88 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 Q. Who would have that? Who would have had 2 that responsibility? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. Go ahead. 4 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't recall the 5 name of the person. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. Now, Mr. Martino, with respect to this 8 case, you were provided with the deposition of 9 Mr. Clarence Bentley, correct? 10 A. The relevant testimony, not the whole one. 11 Q. Okay. You weren't given the entire 12 deposition? 13 A. No. 14 Q. How many pages of testimony were you 15 given, if you recall? 16 A. It was either two or three. 17 Q. Were you provided with any other 18 information as to Mr. Bentley's health condition? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Were you given the opportunity to look at 21 the video deposition, the videotaped testimony? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Were you given any information or did you 24 review any information, rather, of as to 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Mr. Bentley's job sites, the jobs he actually 2 worked on? 3 A. Nothing beyond what was in the deposition. 4 Q. Nothing what was beyond the two pages or 5 so of deposition testimony? 6 A. Yes. You have it there. 7 Q. Oh, I do? Do you have that, or do I have 8 it? 9 MS. CLARK: No. We didn't give him the 10 deposition. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. So, nothing aside from the two pages? 13 A. It was two or three. I don't remember the 14 number. 15 Q. Do you recall the names of any of the 16 power houses or substations that Mr. Bentley worked 17 at? 18 A. I think the name of the company was 19 mentioned in that deposition. I don't remember 20 what it was, though. 21 Q. First off, how long ago did you read the 22 deposition, if you recall? Would it have been - 23 A. It was in April. 24 Q. In April of this year? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. I think it was April -- I believe it 2 was April this year. 3 Q. When you read the two or three pages of 4 Mr. Bentley's deposition that you were provided, do 5 you recall if any of the job sites or the employer 6 of Mr. Bentley sounded familiar to you? 7 A. I don't recall job sites being mentioned 8 other than the company. 9 Q. The City of Springfield Light, Water and 10 Power in Springfield, Illinois, have you ever had 11 the opportunity to deal with that company in any 12 way? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did you ever have any responsibility of 15 calling on any customers in Springfield, Illinois? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Have you ever been to any power houses or 18 substations in the City of Springfield, Illinois? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Have you ever been to any power houses or 21 substations in Illinois? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Have you ever visited any customers of 24 Union Carbide Bakelite in Illinois? 89 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Who did you call on? 3 A. It was Chicago Molded Products, and that's 4 the only one thatcomes to mindin Illinois right 5 now. 6 Q. Do you recall, more or less, when you 7 would have been toChicago Molded Products? 8 A. Exact dates, no. 9 Q. Do you know if that would be in the '60s 10 or the '70s? 11 A. Probably the '60s. 12 Q. Do you recall any of the individuals who 13 you may have met with or dealt with at Chicago 14 Molded Products? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Union Carbide had a sales office for its 17 Bakelite group in Chicago, Illinois, did they not? 18 A. They had a sales office, yes. It 19 wasn't -- I don't think it was primarily devoted to 20 just phenolic compounds. I think was all plastics. 21 Q. Aside from plastics, do you know if that 22 Chicago sales office had any responsibility for, 23 let's say, sales of Calidria or anything of that 24 nature? 90 91 92 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 2 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. And, I'm sorry if I asked you this before, 5 but did you ever visit the sales office in Chicago? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And, how many times did you visit that 8 sales office? 9 A. Oh, you're really testing my memory. 10 Q. Approximately, if you recall. 11 A. Oh, in that period of time, probably at 12 least a dozen. 13 Q. Do you - 14 A. Let me go back on that. 15 Q. Sure. 16 A. I would meet people from the sales office. 17 I didn't necessarily go to the sales office. They 18 would pick me up at the airport. 19 Q. Do you recall any of the individuals' 20 names in the sales office in Chicago that you would 21 have met during that time frame? 22 A. Now, this is with regard to just Bakelite 23 or -24 Q. Anybody in the Chicago sales office. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 A. Forman, Ernie Forman. 2 Q. F-O-R-M-A-N? 3 A. F-O-R-M-A-N, I think. Bob Sherman. 4 Charlie Naylor. 5 Q. Naylor? 6 A. N-A-Y-L-O-R. When he was out here. He 7 was moved. That's about all I can remember right 8 now. 9 Q. Do you know if Ernie Forman is still 10 alive? 11 A. He was as of three, four years ago. 12 Q. How about Bob Sherman? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. How about Mr. Naylor? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you know where Mr. Foreman lives or did 17 live the last time you knew? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. Do you know if it was in Illinois or 20 another state? 21 A. I don't think he is in Illinois, but I 22 don't recall the state. 23 Q. How about Bob Sherman? 24 A. He moved to one of the southern states, 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 but I don't rememberwhich. 2 Q. How about Charlie Naylor? 3 A. He was in Florida. I don't know if he is 4 still there. 5 Q. Have you spoken to any of those three 6 individuals in thepast four, five years? 7 A. I talked to Bob Sherman once. 8 Q. Did that have anything to do with the 9 Bakelite group? 10 A. No. 11 Back on Sherman, we did talk about the 12 good old days and the business in that regard. So, 13 there was discussion about Bakelite. 14 Q. In terms of the good old days meaning 15 sales? 16 A. Sales, customer problems, and that sort of 17 thing. They weren't that good, but that's how I 18 refer to them. 19 Q. Okay. Prior to your retirement in 1996, 20 did you ever become aware of any worker's 21 compensation claims filed against Union Carbide 22 employees who worked at the Bound Brook facility? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Since you retired in 1996, have you become 93 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 aware of any workers compensation claims or 2 lawsuits filed against Union Carbide by employees 3 of the Bound Brook or previous employees of the 4 Bound Brook facility? 5 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. It's a different question. You can 8 answer it. 9 MS. CLARK: Go ahead. 10 THE WITNESS: No. 11 MS. CLARK: Let's go off for a second, please. 12 (Whereupon, a discussion 13 was had off the record.) 14 (Whereupon, there 15 was a lunch break.) 16 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 17 Q. I am going to switch gears, Mr. Martino. 18 I am going to hand you the affidavit that 19 Union Carbide's lawyers filed in this case, show 20 you that, and ask you first if you recognize it. 21 A. Yes. 22 MR. JAGOLINZER: This one actually we will 23 mark. We'll mark this one as Plaintiff's Exhibit 24 whatever you want, 1 or A. 94 95 96 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 2 Exhibit A was marked for 3 identification as of 12/7/04.) 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. Mr. Martino, we talked a little bit 6 earlier about affidavits, and the affidavit in 7 particular in this case. And, is this the 8 affidavit that we discussed that you charged $150 9 in April? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. And, with respect to this 12 affidavit, you did not draft this affidavit, 13 correct? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 15 THE WITNESS: I didn't write it, no. 16 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 17 Q. First off, let's take this line by line, I 18 guess. We'll skip over the first one, because we 19 know you were employed from '48 to '96 for 20 Union Carbide, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. From 1960 until 1974, it says that you 23 were the group manager for R & D. That's research 24 and development, correct? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. For the Bakelite phenolic molding compound 3 and laminating resins group, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. In terms of responsibilities, it states 6 that some of your responsibilities included 7 customer service on technical matters, and I think 8 we discussed what the technical matters were 9 earlier, is that correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. All right. Formulating new products. I 12 am not so sure we talked about that. Formulating 13 new products from '60 to '74, what type of products 14 or what type of applications were those products 15 being developed for? 16 A. It depended on the application the 17 salesman found in the field, what new opportunity. 18 If the existing product line didn't fit, then he 19 would request that we develop something that would 20 fit. 21 Q. Okay. 22 (Whereupon, there was a 23 short interruption.) 24 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Mr. Martino, from 1960 to 1974, could you 2 tell me, I am focusing really on Paragraph 2 of 3 your affidavit, could you tell me which -- let's 4 see -- if more of your time was spent on customer 5 service on technical matters, formulating new 6 products, or modifying old products to fit new 7 applications? Is there a way you can do that? 8 A. I would have to give you a very rough 9 approximation. Formulating new products, entirely 10 new products, would probably be 25 percent. And, 11 then, split the other two half and half. 12 Q. Okay. Let's jump down to Paragraph 3 of 13 your affidavit. And, it states -- we are talking 14 about your position as a group manager. I assume 15 that's from 1960 to 1974, is that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. It talks about that you became familiar 18 with Bakelite phenolic molding compound and 19 phenolic resins manufactured and sold by 20 Union Carbide, and then it says and had access to 21 records regarding those products. Do you see that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. The next sentencesays, based upon my 24 knowledge and review of company records, I am able 97 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 to make the following statements. With respect to 2 this affidavit and the review of company records 3 that we are talking about here, when did the review 4 of those company records take place? 5 A. This is at a time I was working there, and 6 I had access to formulation sheets, manufacturing 7 instructions, sales records. I have had to refresh 8 my memory since then, so I have looked at records 9 since that time, as well. 10 Q. What types of records have you looked at 11 since your work in the Bakelite group? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, over broad. 13 THE WITNESS: Could you be morespecific what 14 records you're looking for? 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. Sure. What I am trying to figure out is 17 in terms of when you started first working for 18 Union Carbide's lawyers or Union Carbide in 2001 or 19 so, what types of documents were you provided to 20 look at to refresh your recollection with regard to 21 some of the statements of fact that may be 22 contained in this affidavit? 23 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 24 THE WITNESS: None, actually. There was 98 99 100 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 nothing available. It was since then, in other 2 depositions, that I was shown records that helped 3 refresh my memory. 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. In those documents that we are talking 6 about from those depositions and from meetings with 7 Union Carbide lawyers, that happened before you 8 signed this affidavit, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. If we go to the second page of your 11 affidavit. The second sentence in the Paragraph 4, 12 where it says, The phenolic resins sold by 13 Union Carbide did not contain any fillers and never 14 contained asbestos. That sentence there in that 15 statement, is that based upon anything that you 16 would have reviewed during these depositions or any 17 documents to back that up? 18 A. No. That's something I knew from my 19 previous experience in the area. 20 Q. Have you seen since you started looking at 21 documents or were shown documents in these 22 depositions any Union Carbide documents that show 23 or make mention that phenolic resins sold by 24 Union Carbide did contain asbestos at some point in 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 time? 2 A. No. 3 Q. If we can go to Paragraph 5. It's in the 4 last sentence, Mr. Martino says, Many of the 5 phenolic molding compounds did not use asbestos 6 fillers, but instead used other materials. 7 Do you see that? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. As of at the end of 1972, is it not true 10 that at least 60 percent of the current mix of 11 phenolic molding compounds that Union Carbide 12 manufactured contained asbestos? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague, 14 ambiguous. 15 THE WITNESS: Are you asking the pounds sold? 16 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 17 Q. I am talking about out of all -- if we 18 were to take 100 percent of the phenolic compounds 19 that Union Carbide was manufacturing - 20 A. In pounds? 21 Q. Sure, in pounds or whatever, that's fine. 22 Over 60 percent of that would have contained 23 asbestos up at the end of 1972? 24 A. No. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 MS. CLARK: Same objections. Got to give me a 2 chance to get my objection out, Mr. Martino. 3 THE WITNESS: I can answer that? 4 MS. CLARK: Yes. 5 THE WITNESS: No, I don't support that at all. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. I want to show you what was premarked at 8 one of your other depositions as Exhibit 7, and it 9 is a letter dated November 22nd, 1972, and the 10 subject is asbestos fillers used in phenolic 11 molding compounds. And, this was a letter that was 12 written by a D.R. Allbright, and it was sent to a 13 Mr. R.E. Nicholson. And, you are carbon copied on 14 this. And, I want to hand this to you and direct 15 your attention to the third page on the second 16 number, if I may. 17 A. Third page and which - 18 Q. It is, if I may lean over here a little 19 bit, direct yourself to under some alternatives in 20 number two, first, could you read that allowed to 21 me? 22 A. Yes. Find a substitute for asbestos. 23 Discontinue manufacture of all products containing 24 asbestos, 60 percent of the current product mix. 101 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. What does that mean to you? 2 A. As written, I am interpreting that as 3 60 percent of the number formulations. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. My statements are based on pounds sold, 6 not formulations. 7 Q. Fair enough. So, in order for me to 8 properly ask that question, I should have asked or 9 I should ask you that is it true that 60 percent of 10 the product mix at the end of 1972 were asbestos? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague. 12 THE WITNESS: That I can't answer, because I 13 have not looked at individual formulations as to 14 what percent contained asbestos and what didn't. 15 What I did look at wasthe pounds sold, and what 16 the percentage was of the total, andthat's what my 17 statement is based on. 18 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 19 Q. Is it your understanding that the writer 20 of that letter, Mr. Allbright, made the statement 21 that 60 percent of all of the products -- out of 22 all the product formulations were asbestos 23 containing? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague, 102 103 104 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 calling for speculation. 2 THE WITNESS: I have seen this before. I don't 3 know how he arrived at that figure. 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. Okay. But that is a figure he arrived at? 6 A. He arrived at. 7 Q. That document there, that's something that 8 was sent to you back at the time it was written? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. It's probably me just asking a bad 11 question in terms of how I phrased it. 12 Let's go back to your affidavit, if we 13 can. 14 Okay. Paragraph 6, if we go to the second 15 full sentence, Mr. Martino. It begins with, I have 16 reviewed. See where it says, I have reviewed the 17 testimony of plaintiff regarding Bakelite? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. First off, is this a generic affidavit? 20 Have you signed this same affidavit in other cases? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, ambiguous. 22 THE WITNESS: It's not exactly the same, no. 23 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 24 Q. Okay. For example, it says, I reviewed 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 the testimony of the plaintiff regarding Bakelite. 2 Any reason that this doesn't say I have reviewed 3 the testimony of Mr. Bentley regarding Bakelite? 4 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, calls for 5 speculation. 6 THE WITNESS: I interpret that sentence as 7 Mr. Bentley's testimony. 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. Okay. And, the reason, when I asked 10 you -- let me ask it to you this way. 11 You would be speculating as to why certain 12 sentences were written certain ways, because you 13 didn't write this, is that correct? 14 A. If I didn't agree with it, I would ask 15 that it be changed, which I have done. 16 Q. And, you can't speculate as to why things 17 were written certain ways in here, because you 18 didn't write this, correct? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. Go ahead. 20 THE WITNESS: With regard to legal aspects, I 21 am not an expert, but with regard to the technical 22 content, that's either I agree or I have it 23 changed. 24 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. And, I guess my question is this. First 2 off, these are not your words, and you didn't 3 select the words to be used in this affidavit, 4 right? 5 MS. CLARK: Object to form. 6 THE WITNESS: As long as the words said what I 7 want them to say, I mean, I don't know if you would 8 say that's selecting or, you know. I agreed with 9 -- they said what I wanted to say. 10 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 11 Q. Okay. That's, I guess, what I am trying 12 to get at. Somebody else wrote this for you, not 13 you, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. You did not tell somebody what to write in 16 here or select what was written. You were given 17 this. And, if you wanted to, you could have made 18 corrections to it, is that correct? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes his 20 testimony. 21 THE WITNESS: It was a product of what we 22 agreed should go in there. 23 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 24 Q. Did you have a conversation with any of 105 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 the attorneys for Union Carbide with respect to 2 deciding what would go in this affidavit? 3 A. In this particular one, after reviewing 4 the testimony that I was sent, I agreed. So, I 5 signed it, and I had itnotarized. 6 Q. Did you make any changes to this affidavit 7 at all? 8 A. No. 9 Q. When it says, "I have reviewed the 10 testimony of the plaintiff regarding Bakelite," you 11 have already stated you haven't reviewed the entire 12 testimony ofthe plaintiff, is that correct? 13 A. I had reviewed the testimony, and then I 14 read the deposition, agreed with it, and then 15 proceeded to process it. 16 Q. Okay. Here is my question. You were only 17 provided with two or three pages of Mr. Bentley's 18 testimony, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. So, you do not know from your own personal 21 knowledge whether or not Mr. Bentley testified 22 further about Bakelite, other than what was given 23 to you? 24 A. That's correct. 106 107 108 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. In technical matters, I make up my own 3 mind, and I will not sign anything that I don't 4 agree with, regardless of how it's written. 5 Q. As you sit here today, do you know if 6 Mr. Bentley testified more about Bakelite than what 7 you were provided? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Have you reviewed any other testimony or 10 any other information concerning the work that 11 Mr. Bentley may or may not have done with Bakelite 12 aside from the two or three pages provided to you? 13 A. No, I have not. 14 Q. Similarly, have you ever had the 15 opportunity to talk to any of Mr. Bentley's 16 co-workers who worked with and around Mr. Bentley, 17 while he was an electrician during these years? 18 A. I did not. 19 Q. This next statement in here, Mr. Martino, 20 that says, "Union Carbide did not make sheets for 21 use in mounting electrical fixtures such as the 22 product described by plaintiff and never sold any 23 such products under the name Bakelite." 24 Do you see that? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Isn't it true that Union Carbide actually 3 didn't make any finished products from Bakelite? 4 A. During the period of time I was there, 5 that's correct. 6 Q. So, it doesn't matter if it was sheets for 7 electrical fixtures or switch box covers or any 8 other type of product made from Bakelite, because 9 Union Carbide didn't make them, is that correct? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. That's not to say, Mr. Martino, that other 12 manufacturers who bought Union Carbide Bakelite 13 didn't mold products such as sheets or switch gears 14 or other types of equipment, correct? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, 16 mischaracterizes the testimony. 17 THE WITNESS: I don't quite understand. Mold 18 sheets? 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. Sure. 21 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 22 THE WITNESS: I know both processes, the 23 laminating process and the molding process. The 24 molding process is not used to make a laminated 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 sheet of different thicknesses. The molding 2 process is used to make shaped articles. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. You're not saying, Mr. Martino, that a 5 purchaser of Union Carbide Bakelite never used or 6 never made a molded sheet product, are you? 7 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, calls for 8 speculation. Go ahead. 9 THE WITNESS: I have never seen it done. 10 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 11 Q. Understanding that you have never seen it 12 done, you're not saying that it was not done by 13 other purchasers of Bakelite, is that correct? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered, and 15 the characterization of the question. 16 THE WITNESS: There are good reasons why it 17 isn't done, and based on those reasons, that's why 18 I make this statement. 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. What you're doing, Mr. Martino, is you're 21 making a conclusion based upon your knowledge; is 22 that fair? 23 A. That is correct. 24 Q. Okay. You're not saying for a fact that 109 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 purchasers of Union Carbide Bakelite never made a 2 molded sheet out of the Bakelite, is that correct? 3 A. I am saying - 4 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered. 5 THE WITNESS: I amsaying that is not common 6 practice. 7 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 8 Q. And, you have never been to any of 9 Mr. Bentley's job sites and seen what types of 10 Bakelite products were or were not at his job site, 11 correct? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. And, similarly, haveyou been provided 14 with any information as to who would have been the 15 seller of the finished Bakelite product that 16 Mr. Bentley may have worked with at any of his job 17 sites? 18 A. No. 19 Q. What would be thepurpose of using an 20 asbestos filler in a phenolic molding compound? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection, over broad, vague. You 22 can answer, if you can. 23 THE WITNESS: Primaryreasonis heat 24 resistance. Second reason would be arc resistance. 110 111 112 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 And, there are other benefits, but those are the 2 primary ones. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. You would agree with me that Union 5 Carbide's asbestos containing Bakelite was sold and 6 marketed for use in the electrical field, is that 7 correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. Mr. Martino, do you recall if during 13 Mr. Bentley's deposition any lawyers asked 14 Mr. Bentley if the sheet products that he was 15 working with were laminated or not? 16 A. It was in the deposition I saw. It was 17 layered is the term that was used. 18 Q. Was the term used in the deposition or in 19 the portion of the deposition that you read 20 laminated? Was that asked by any individual? 21 A. No. 22 Q. In Paragraph 7 of your affidavit, 23 Mr. Martino, it's on Page 3, you reference other 24 companies who were competitors of Union Carbide in 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 the field of phenolic molding compounds, correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. For example, you mention Durez. Durez 4 made a phenolic molding compound that it called 5 Durite, is that correct? 6 A. I think they call it Durite. 7 Q. D-U-R-I-T-E? 8 A. I think so. 9 Q. Do you know what Fiberite called their 10 phenolic molding compound? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. Mr. Martino, from your review of the two 13 or three pages of Mr. Bentley's deposition, did you 14 note whether or not Mr. Bentley was ever 15 responsible for purchasing any of the Bakelite 16 products he said he worked with? 17 A. As I recall, he said that somebody else 18 did the purchasing. 19 Q. Do you know from any of the sections that 20 you read of Mr. Bentley's deposition whether or not 21 he had any responsibility concerning the purchase 22 of Bakelite? 23 A. I got the impression that he did not. 24 Q. And, the impression that you got was based 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 upon the two or three pages that was provided to 2 you. 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. The last section of youraffidavit, 5 Mr. Martino, it states it would be impossible to 6 tell from looking at a finished product made from 7 phenolic molding compounds whether or not the 8 products contained asbestos. Do you see that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. I believe you have testified to this 11 before, and correct me if I am wrong, but visually 12 from looking at an asbestos containing Bakelite 13 versus a non-asbestos containing Bakelite, the 14 color of the asbestos containing Bakelite would be 15 greenish, is that correct? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, 17 mischaracterizes previous testimony. 18 THE WITNESS: Greenish? 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. A greenish color. The asbestos containing 21 Bakelite. 22 A. I said that today? 23 Q. No, no. I am asking -- first of all, let 24 me back up. Let me ask it this way. First off, do 113 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 you have an understanding as to the color of 2 asbestos containing Bakelite manufactured by 3 Union Carbide? 4 MS. CLARK: Objection, over broad, vague. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. What color would that have been? 8 A. Green was only one product that was made 9 that way. Most of them were black and some browns. 10 Q. That green product, did that contain 11 asbestos? 12 A. Yes. 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. Go ahead. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. I guess we are just jumping the gun for 16 her. 17 That green asbestos containing Bakelite, 18 do you know if that was long fiber or short fiber? 19 A. Short. 20 MS. CLARK: Object -- Carlo. 21 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, Kate. 22 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague and 23 ambiguous. 24 THE WITNESS: It was short fiber. And, I am 114 115 116 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 making the assumption that it's 3700 that you're 2 talking about. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. What makes you say it was short fiber 5 rather than long fiber? 6 A. Because all of the products we were making 7 along those lines were short fiber asbestos. 8 Q. Since your deposition in -- your first 9 deposition in 2001, were you given product 10 formulations of asbestos containing Bakelite to 11 review? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection, over broad, vague. 13 THE WITNESS: Not to -- no, no. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. Since your first deposition in 2001, did 16 you review any documents or product formulations 17 that talked about the type of fiber or the length 18 of fiber that would have been used in asbestos 19 containing Bakelite? 20 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 21 THE WITNESS: I am not quite sure what you want 22 on that. 23 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 24 Q. Okay. Here is what I am trying to get at. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 If in 2001, your first deposition, you had 2 testified that the greenish asbestos containing 3 Bakelite would have been the long fiber and not the 4 short fiber, did you do anything since then to 5 review information to show that that's incorrect? 6 A. Oh, now I - 7 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, compound and 8 ambiguous. 9 THE WITNESS: Now I understand. You're talking 10 about the color of a long fiber asbestos product in 11 the first deposition? 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. Correct. 14 A. That was not made in our typical molding 15 material facility, and I don't recall exact way I 16 described the color. It was probably a grayish 17 color. 18 I misinterpreted. I thought you were 19 referring to a 3700 green that we made, which also 20 contained asbestos, and it was short fiber. 21 Q. The long fiber that Union Carbide 22 manufactured, you said that wasn't -- I didn't 23 catch that. It wasn't manufactured at the 24 Bound Brook facility? Is that -- 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 MS. CLARK: Wait, Carlo. 2 Are you done? 3 MR. JAGOLINZER: Sure. 4 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous as to 5 the long fiber product. 6 Go ahead. 7 THE WITNESS: It was manufactured at 8 Bound Brook, but in a different facility. 9 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 10 Q. So, there were different facilities of the 11 Bound Brook plant that would manufacture Bakelite 12 products, is that correct? 13 A. No. Same location, different process. 14 Different way of manufacturing the products. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Long fiber could not be fed in our typical 17 phenolic molding material process. 18 Q. So, you had a separate process to 19 manufacture asbestos containinglong fiber 20 Bakelite? 21 A. Yes. And, it was a small facility, 22 because this was not a large volume product. 23 Q. That product was being manufactured during 24 the same time period that the other asbestos 117 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 containing Bakelite was being manufactured? 2 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous. 3 THE WITNESS: When it was made, it was a 4 product that was being obsoleted during the period 5 of time I was there. It was pretty much a made to 6 order product for people who couldn't find a 7 substitute. 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. Do you recall the last time that the 10 Bound Brook plant was manufacturing the long fiber 11 product that we're discussing? 12 A. I think I saw a document asking the plant 13 to make some -- the end of 1960, probably '68, '69, 14 and there were some, as I recall, there were 15 objections to doing it, and they finally had to do 16 it. 17 Q. They finally had to manufacture it? 18 A. Yes, because of the customer. 19 Q. Do you recall who that customer was at 20 that time frame? 21 A. As I recall, it was the government. 22 Q. And, when you say it was the government, 23 would that be for use in navy applications? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 118 119 120 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 THE WITNESS: I don't know the application, 2 but, you know, this I got second hand, because I 3 was not in the manufacturing department at the 4 time. I just happen to see the correspondence. 5 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 6 Q. Do you know who was in the manufacturing 7 department at that time, who may still be alive 8 today? 9 A. Dale Allbright. 10 Q. When is the last time you spoke to 11 Dale Allbright? 12 A. A month ago. 13 Q. Was that at a social occasion, or was that 14 having something to do with these cases? 15 A. Social. 16 Q. Mr. Allbright, does he live in New Jersey, 17 as well? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Have you discussed or asked Mr. Allbright 20 any questions concerning the production of asbestos 21 containing Bakelite recently? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Mr. Martino, from the point in time you 24 were working in the Bakelite group, what was the 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 highest percent of asbestos contents for the 2 asbestos containing Bakelite? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous, 4 foundation. 5 THE WITNESS: The products made on the -- the 6 highest containing product made on the standard 7 facilities where most of our, you know, products 8 are made, is 3700, and I don't recall the exact 9 amount, but it was over 30 percent. I would have 10 to look at the formulation to give you the 11 information. 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. Have you seen the formulations for 3700 or 14 any of the other products in the past five years? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Those product formulations, were they 17 given to you to review by a plaintiff's counsel or 18 by lawyers for Union Carbide? 19 A. I have seen them both. I don't remember 20 3700 where -- which the source was. 21 Q. I want to hand you -- I am going to go 22 through a series of documents, Mr. Martino, and I 23 want to hand you documents, and I'll ask similar 24 questions about each of them. I want to give that 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 to your counsel first. 2 My first question, Mr. Martino, is going 3 to be while you're looking through that, is have 4 you seen that document before? 5 A. Is there a date on this? Oh, here. 6 August. 7 Q. If you go to the third page the bottom 8 left-hand corner, you see the copyright date is 9 1967, 1968, Union Carbide Corporation, if that 10 helps. If not, the next page on the bottom 11 left-hand corner it says August of 1968. 12 A. Okay. I probably would have seen it. I 13 haven't seen this recently. 14 Q. Does that appear to be a true and correct 15 copy of a document, of a Union Carbide document, 16 from the time period that is indicated? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. He just 18 testified he doesn't know for sure. 19 MR. JAGOLINZER: That's not what he said, but 20 you can certainly make speaking objections, and we 21 can bring that up with the Court. I let you do it 22 all day so far. 23 MS. CLARK: I disagree with that, counsel. I 24 have not been making speaking objections. 121 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 THE WITNESS: I see no reason to doubt that it 2 isn't a Union Carbide document. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. You have not been provided this, let's 5 say, in the last five years to review by anybody at 6 Union Carbide Corporation? 7 A. No. 8 MR. JAGOLINZER: I am going to mark that one as 9 Plaintiff's Exhibit B. 10 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 11 Exhibit B was marked for 12 identification as of 12/7/04.) 13 MR. CRIST: Would you be kind enough to 14 identify the document for those of us who are - 15 MR. JAGOLINZER: No problem. The cover page 16 indicates Plaintiff's Exhibit UC-163. It states on 17 the top, Bakelite. It says, Phenolics for 18 compression plunger and injection molding. 19 MR. CRIST: Thank you. 20 MR. JAGOLINZER: You're welcome. 21 THE WITNESS: I don't - 22 MS. CLARK: There is no question, Carlo. 23 THE WITNESS: I want to make sure that what I 24 did answer is correct. 122 123 124 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. Take your time. 3 A. I don't recall seeing this document in the 4 last five years. 5 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 6 Exhibit C was marked for 7 identification as of 12/7/04.) 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. Let's hand you another one, if I may. 10 This one says in the top right-hand corner 11 Plaintiff's Exhibit UC-165. It says, Greatest 12 variety, largest sources, Bakelite trademark for 13 plastics key to your needs. 14 And, if you can take a look at that and 15 tell me if you have ever seen that one before. 16 A. I could have seen it while I was working 17 there, but I don't recall. Was that your question, 18 did I see it? 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. I guess that was my question, but my 21 question is now have you seen that in the last five 22 years? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. So, Union Carbide's lawyers have 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 not shown you that document, correct? 2 A. That's - 3 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered. 4 THE WITNESS: I don't remember seeing it. 5 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 6 Exhibit D was marked for 7 identification as of 12/7/04.) 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. Let's go to another brochure. This one on 10 the top is a copy of a booklet entitled 11 Bakelite Molded, and we'll make this Plaintiff's D. 12 And, my question is, have you ever seen that 13 before. And, that's a copy, obviously, but - 14 A. This must be an old one. 15 Q. If you go to the second page, Mr. Martino, 16 it says copy write 1936. 17 MS. CLARK: Actually, counsel, I think we might 18 be missing a page. What's your second page? 19 MR. JAGOLINZER: Do you have that? 20 THE WITNESS: I don't recall seeing this 21 especially in the last five years. 22 MS. CLARK: Are you going to mark his copy? 23 MR. JAGOLINZER: Yes. 24 MS. CLARK: Because I don't think we have any 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 of that. 2 MR. JAGOLINZER: That's interesting. We'll 3 mark this one. 4 MS. CLARK: We should mark this, because this 5 is the one he looked at, and we don't have the 6 same. 7 MR. JAGOLINZER: Sure. That's not a problem. 8 Let me just do one thing. We'll leave that alone. 9 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 10 Q. This next one will be Plaintiff's Exhibit 11 E. And, this is entitled, Union Carbide 1965 12 plastics data guide, and it says Bakelite on the 13 bottom right-hand corner. I'll ask you to take a 14 look at that, if you could, please, sir. 15 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 16 Exhibit E was marked for 17 identification as of 12/7/04.) 18 THE WITNESS: What's your question on this? 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. Have you ever seen that before? 21 A. Some of these look familiar to 22 advertisements I saw in the Modern Plastics 23 Encyclopedia, which I looked at in the last five 24 years. But whether they are actually those that I 125 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 saw there, I can't tell without making a 2 comparison, but they look very familiar. 3 Q. Is that in the -- are you referring to the 4 1973 book that you have at your home? 5 A. No. I went to the library and looked up 6 plastics in the encyclopedia. 7 Q. When did you do that? When did you go to 8 the library to do that? 9 A. 2002. 10 Q. Did you do that at the request of the 11 lawyers for Union Carbide? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Why did you do that? 14 A. To refresh my memory. All this other 15 information was not available to me at that time, 16 and I am amazed at how much is showing up now. 17 And, that was one way for me to go back and review 18 what was happening during that period of time I was 19 there. And, Rutkers library happened to have - 20 didn't have them all, but had quite a few of them 21 there. So, that's where - 22 Q. Mr. Martino, what's polypropylene? 23 A. It's a thermoplastic made similar to 24 polyethylene. It's a material that will melt. 126 127 128 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 It's waxy looking. It's used for containers, 2 automotive parts, sheets, extruded sheets that are 3 formed into containers. 4 Q. To your knowledge, did polypropylene 5 manufactured by Union Carbide contain asbestos in 6 1965? 7 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 8 THE WITNESS: I am not aware of any asbestos 9 put in polypropylene. 10 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 11 Q. Did you have any responsibilities for 12 polypropylene at Union Carbide? 13 A. I didn't, no. 14 Q. Ask you turn to the I guess it's the third 15 last page. I am looking under molding continued 16 under polypropylene. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And, it says, asbestos filled grades are 19 outstanding in both resistance to (inaudible) and 20 heat resistance. 21 Do you see that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to what 24 asbestos filled grades of polypropylene would be 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 used for? 2 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. Calls for 3 speculation. 4 THE WITNESS: I was not in that area, so I 5 don't know what the markets were for that 6 particular product or whether we actually made it. 7 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 8 Q. Actually, looks like I can answer my own 9 question. Under the typical uses, you see at the 10 bottom, looks like there is a column, it says 11 polypropylene. It's the second to last column. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. To your understanding, could polypropylene 14 be used for, and I am looking at the very bottom, 15 the typical uses, for electrical housings? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered, 17 foundation, calls for speculation. 18 THE WITNESS: Electrical housings? Now, this 19 is not a filled polypropylene. 20 Wait a minute. Where is the -- I am 21 looking at the wrong thing. 22 And, what was your question again? 23 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 24 Q. To your knowledge, could polypropylene be 12/7/2004Martino, Carlo inBentley 1 used -- asbestos containingpolypropylene be used 2 for electrical housings? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered, 4 foundation, calling for speculation. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I wasn't in that 6 area. 7 MR. JAGOLINZER: We are done with that one for 8 right now. 9 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 10 Exhibit F was marked for 11 identification as of 12/7/04.) 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. I am going to hand you now what we can 14 mark as Plaintiff's Exhibit F. And, this is a 15 product data sheet dated February, 1960, for 16 Bakelite brands fibrous resins for specialty paper 17 and ask you to take a look at that, if you could, 18 please. 19 A. What was your question? 20 Q. Question is have you ever seen that 21 before, that document. 22 A. Not the document, no. 23 Q. Did you have any responsibility during 24 your career at Union Carbide for fibrous resin, 129 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 asbestos papers, and laminates? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Were you aware that Union Carbide at one 4 point in time made a fibrous resin, asbestos paper, 5 and/or laminate? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection, compound, ambiguous, 7 foundation. 8 THE WITNESS: This does not say that they made 9 it. This says that they could make it. 10 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 11 Q. Were you aware that Union Carbide as of 12 1960 could have made a fibrous resin, asbestos 13 paper, and/or laminate? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, inadequate hypothetical, 15 calling for speculation. 16 THE WITNESS: I never saw any facility where 17 this was done, and this product I don't think was 18 -- they tried to commercialize it. It was not a 19 success. 20 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 21 Q. So, you are aware that at some point in 22 time Union Carbide attempted to commercialize 23 fibrous resin, asbestos paper, and/or laminate? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, compound, ambiguous. 130 131 132 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 THE WITNESS: No, I am not aware that they 2 commercialized that finished product. I do not 3 in -- I have not seen any finished products made 4 and sold. Just because it's here doesn't mean that 5 that's what they were doing. 6 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 7 Q. Sure. Is it correct to also state that 8 you are not aware of what Union Carbide was or was 9 not doing with respect to fibrous resin, asbestos 10 papers and/or laminates? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes the 12 witness' testimony. 13 THE WITNESS: I am only aware that this was an 14 experimental product that they were working with in 15 the laboratory and trying to find uses for it. I 16 had never seen them make commercial products and 17 sell them, nor did I see any promotion to do that. 18 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 19 Q. How were you aware that they were 20 attempting to make fibrous resin, asbestos paper, 21 and/or laminates? 22 MS. CLARK: Same objection, mischaracterizes 23 his testimony. Go ahead. 24 THE WITNESS: I am aware that they were making 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 these fibrous resins, and that's what they were 2 trying to sell. These are applications for those 3 fibrous resins, and I interpreted this as this is 4 where they can be used by customers. We were not 5 doing it, and I don't think you'll find any 6 evidence that we did sell such products, other than 7 implying that that's what you could use it for. I 8 never saw any manufacturing facilities. 9 Q. The first time that you saw this product 10 data sheet would have been today, is that correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. So, prior to today, you were not aware 13 that this document existed that mentions that 14 Union Carbide could or maybe suggested that fibrous 15 resin asbestos be used in paper or laminates? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes the 17 documents. 18 THE WITNESS: Reword that question again, 19 please. 20 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 21 Q. Sure. The first time that you were aware 22 or that you had any knowledge whatsoever about 23 Union Carbide and fibrous resin, asbestos paper, 24 and/or laminates would be just right now, is that 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 correct? 2 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes his 3 testimony, asked andanswered and compound. 4 THE WITNESS: All I can do is rephrase what I 5 told you before. I am aware that they did this 6 work. I even saw them doing it. It was at a very 7 small facility in my molding laboratory, and I am 8 not aware of the various uses they were promoting 9 it for. So, when you say that it could be used in 10 this application, if it says they could be used in 11 here, then that's what they found. That doesn't 12 mean that they manufacturedthatproduct. 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. Do you know whether or not for a fact 15 Union Carbide did or did not manufacture fibrous 16 resin? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered. 18 THE WITNESS: On a laboratory scale, I am aware 19 of it. I did not see any production facility. 20 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 21 Q. The fact that you did not see any 22 production facility for the manufacture of these 23 fibrous resins, does that mean that they did not 24 exist? Is that what you're saying, or just that 133 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 you did not see it? 2 MS. CLARK: Objection. Asked and answered, 3 mischaracterizes his testimony and ambiguous. 4 THE WITNESS: I am giving you my own 5 observations and my own experience with what I know 6 the company was doing at the time, and we were 7 working close together in the laboratory. Beyond 8 that, I can't tell you any more. 9 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 10 Q. That's exactly where I am trying to get 11 at, and that's why I guess we are on different 12 pages right now. I am asking you if you know for a 13 fact whether or not Union Carbide did manufacture 14 these fibrous resins, or is it just that you did 15 not see them manufacture the resins. That's the 16 difference I am trying to get at. 17 MS. CLARK: Objection, asked and answered and 18 to the form of the question. You're asking him to 19 prove a negative, counsel. 20 MR. JAGOLINZER: I am not, counsel. My 21 question stands. 22 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 23 Q. Do you understand my question? Do you 24 understand the difference I am trying to ask to 134 135 136 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B< 1 find out? 2 A. I am not quite sure. 3 Q. Okay. Do you know for a fact whether or 4 not Union Carbide did or did not manufacture the 5 fibrous resins? 6 MS. CLARK: Same objections, asked and 7 answered. 8 THE WITNESS: I am not aware of these being 9 advanced to the commercial stage where a new 10 production facility would have been built. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. Would you be aware of every product that 13 would be advanced to that stage? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, over broad, vague. 15 THE WITNESS: Something of this new and this 16 promising, at least it sounds promising, if it had 17 gone to commercial stage, I would have heard about 18 it. It would have been advertised within the 19 company. 20 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 21 Q. Okay. 22 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 23 Exhibit G was marked for 24 identification as of 12/7/04.) 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. Let me show you now what we'll mark as 3 Plaintiff's Exhibit G. And, on the top right 4 corner, it says, Union Carbide Business 5 Confidential plaintiff's Exhibit UC 162, and it's 6 entitled, History of Bakelite. Let me show you 7 that and ask you if you have seen that before. 8 MS. CLARK: Can we go off for a second? 9 (Whereupon, a discussion 10 was had off the record.) 11 THE WITNESS: What's the dates on this? 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. There is no date on it that I see. Have 14 you ever seen that before? 15 A. No, I haven't. 16 Q. You were never provided that through the 17 course of the depositions or in your employment at 18 Union Carbide? 19 A. No. It's the first time I have seen it. 20 I don't recall ever seeing it before. 21 Q. If you go to the page that's marked three 22 on the bottom. Do you see that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. I am starting at the paragraph where it 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 says, Asbestos was used as a filler by Union 2 Carbide and its plastics, which are to be used as 3 electrical switch boxes, plug-in receptacles, and 4 radio components. 5 Do you see that sentence? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. It says, Phenolic molding materials 8 produced by Union Carbide, which contain asbestos 9 filler, were, and then it lists a number of 10 designations. Do you see that? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Are you familiar with those designations? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. If you turn to the next page, Mr. Martino. 15 See where it says, The customers who have been 16 identified as purchasers of phenolic molding 17 materials, which contained asbestos filler, 18 include, see the list there? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you know where Controls Corporation is 21 located? 22 A. I don't remember. 23 Q. Did you have any dealings with 24 Controls Corporation? 137 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentl 1 A. I don't recall. 2 Q. Kuhn & Jacobs, do you know where they are 3 located? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Have you ever heard of Kuhn & Jacobs? 6 A. I have heard of them, but I don't recall 7 where they are located. 8 Q. Hydromanic division of GM, did you ever 9 have any dealings with that division of GM? 10 A. I could have. I visited GM several times. 11 Q. Chicago Molded Products, we discussed that 12 a little earlier. You actually called on them 13 once, is that correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Square D, do you know what Square D is? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What is Square D? 18 A. Electrical parts manufacturer. 19 Q. Where are they located? 20 A. Lexington, Kentucky. 21 Q. Dimco Gray, are you familiar with them? 22 A. I am familiar with them, yes. They 23 sound -- I remember seeing them on a lot of 24 reports. 138 139 140 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 Q. Do you recall where they are located? 2 A. No. 3 Q. How about Harry Davis, do you have any 4 idea what that is? 5 A. Don't recall that one. 6 Is this going to be attached to the 7 deposition? 8 Q. Yes. 9 If you go to Page 9 on the bottom. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. See where it says -- actually, I am at the 12 first full paragraph, and I am at the last sentence 13 of that paragraph. 14 In order to combat the commercial pressure 15 for a substitute for asbestos in the phenolics, 16 Union Carbide began development of a suitable 17 alternative. Do you see that? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Do you recall what year it was that 20 Union Carbide began developing an alternative to 21 asbestos and phenolic compound? 22 A. 1972 or '73. 23 Q. The next sentence says, in October of 24 1974, the company was successful in developing an 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Be 1 asbestos free phenolic molding material. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you recall any other asbestos-free 4 phenolic molding material prior to 1974? 5 A. We had a program that started in 1970 of 6 removing asbestos. So, we did end up with 7 asbestos-free products as early as 1970 and 8 continued that program on into this period of time. 9 Q. Do you know if the company was successful 10 in developing an asbestos free phenolic compound in 11 1970? 12 A. Those products that contained less than 13 ten percent asbestos, we were successful, yes. 14 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 15 Exhibit H was marked for 16 identification as of 12/7/04.) 17 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 18 Q. Let me show you what we'll mark as 19 Plaintiff's H, and ask you -- it's a little hard to 20 read, but ask you if you have seen that document 21 before. And, it's entitled handbook -- it's 22 actually some pages. It's Pages 106 through looks 23 like 115 of the Handbook of Plastics, American 24 Plastics Corporation and Commercial Materials. In 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 the right-hand corner, it says, Bakelite 2 Corporation Unit of Union Carbide and Carbon 3 Corporation Bakelite Brand Plastics. 4 I just ask you if you have seen that 5 before. 6 A. This must be back in '48. What is the 7 date on it? 8 Q. Let's see if this is dated, too. I do not 9 see the date on that. The only question I have for 10 you right now is have you seen that before? 11 A. I don'trecall seeing it, no. 12 Q. If you go to the first page of that. You 13 see on Page 107? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Second full paragraph, it says, There are 16 Bakelite molding materials and powdered sheet in 17 granular form. 18 You see that? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. WhatwouldBakelite molding materials be 21 in sheet form? How would you describe that? 22 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, calls for 23 speculation. 24 THE WITNESS: There was an association with 141 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Rogers Corporation, and I would haveto go back to 2 the records to, you know, really get all the facts 3 on that. Rogers Corporation made sheet material 4 that could be softened and formed in the press into 5 various shapes. That goes way back. 6 And, then, Rogers Corporation was spun off 7 as an individual company. So, again, it may be 8 speculation, but I think I am pretty sure on this. 9 Going back in the records, we could sort it out. 10 But that's what is being referred to here. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. So, Rogers Corporation, they were a 13 purchaser of Union Carbide Bakelite? 14 A. They have bought resin, yes, but they had 15 a different process for making molding material. 16 It was a wet process. And, I saw references in 17 some documents to their sheet products that again I 18 am really pushing my memory on this, but that's 19 about all I can -- I never saw sheet molding 20 product made in the Bound Brook facilities. 21 Q. The sheet molded products that Rogers 22 Corporation would have made, what year are we 23 talking about? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes his 142 143 144 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 testimony. Foundation. 2 THE WITNESS: I would have to go back and, you 3 know -- I am not sure with what I have I can do it, 4 but I would have to try to sort it out. I may even 5 have to go back to some of the encyclopedias as to 6 what happened. I know there was an association 7 with Rogers, and then there was a spin off of the 8 Rogers Corporation, and for that, when they were 9 associated together, both companies sold some 10 products at that time, but it was way back. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. Okay. So, the association that 13 Union Carbide had with Rogers Corporation -- strike 14 that. 15 At some point in time, Union Carbide had 16 an association with Rogers Corporation? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Which would have involved the manufacture 19 of a sheet product? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, ambiguous, 21 foundation. 22 THE WITNESS: It would have involved a 23 manufacture of a sheet product by Rogers, not by 24 Union Carbide. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. That sheet product that would have been 3 manufactured by Rogers would have contained 4 Union Carbide's phenolic compounds? 5 A. Resin. 6 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. Go ahead. 7 THE WITNESS: Resin. 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. Okay. Do you know if that association 10 with Rogers was before or after you first started 11 in the Bakelite group? 12 A. Oh, before, quite long before. In fact, 13 before I was even hired, I believe. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. Mr. Martino, since you started testifying 16 in 2001, have you ever seen the Federal Register 17 that outlines Union Carbide's asbestos containing 18 products? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 20 THE WITNESS: I would have to look at the 21 document to refresh my memory. 22 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 23 Q. Sure. And, really, the only question that 24 I am going to have for you on this document is have 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 you seen this before, Mr. Martino? 2 A. I have seen reference to it, but I have 3 not seen it in this detail. 4 MR. JAGOLINZER: Okay. We'll attach that one 5 as I. 6 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 7 Exhibit I was marked for 8 identification as of 12/7/04.) 9 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 10 Q. The next document that I am going to hand 11 you, Mr. Martino, we are going to mark Plaintiff's 12 J, and it's a letter from Harrison B. Rhodes at the 13 Calidria Asbestos Division of Union Carbide, dated 14 date November 22nd, 1977, and just ask you to take 15 a look at it, and have you seen that before. 16 A. No, I have not. 17 Q. Okay. Mr. Martino,do you know who 18 Harrison B. Rhodes is? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Mr. Martino, were you ever amember of the 21 Society of Plastic Engineers? 22 A. I could have been some years. I was not a 23 regular member. 24 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 145 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Exhibit J was marked for 2 identification as of 12/7/04.) 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. Next one I am going to hand you is going 5 to be marked Plaintiff's K, and this is aUnion 6 Carbide Internal Correspondencedated April 6, 7 1973. The originating department is Calidria 8 Asbestos Marketing. And, I just want to ask you to 9 take a look at that, please, Mr. Martino, and the 10 attached plastics technology letter, and just tell 11 me -- tell me if you have ever seen that before, 12 please. 13 A. No, I did not. 14 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 15 Exhibit K was marked for 16 identification as of 12/7/04.) 17 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 18 Q. The next one I hand to you, Mr. Martino, 19 is going to be marked Plaintiff's L, and this is 20 another Union Carbide internal correspondence dated 21 September 30th, 1982. The subject is, Calidria 22 asbestos potential liability chemicals and plastics 23 operations, Bound Brook, New Jersey, and just ask 24 you if you have ever seen that before, sir. 146 147 148 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 A. No, I haven't. 2 Q. If you just take a look on the last page 3 of that just quickly. And, that says, table one 4 UCC metals division shipments to UCC plastics 5 division at Bound Brook. And, I guess if you look 6 at the top, the first entry, it says, 7 May 4th, 1964, 110,000 pounds, filter grade open, 8 end use Bakelite Phenolics? 9 MS. CLARK: I think it was 1965, just for the 10 record. 11 MR. JAGOLINZER: What did I say? 12 MS. CLARK: 1964. 13 MR. JAGOLINZER: I apologize. May 4, '65. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. And, would this be consistent with what 16 you testified to earlier that there were times in 17 which your group was looking at using 18 Union Carbide's Calidria asbestos for potentially 19 using in Bakelite phenolics? 20 A. Yes. 21 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 22 THE WITNESS: Yes. That '65 is about the time 23 that they were trying to get approval. 24 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. Okay. Do you know if they attempted to 2 get approval on more than one occasion? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 4 THE WITNESS: They may have higher in the 5 organization. With me, only once. 6 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 7 Exhibit L was marked for 8 identification as of 12/7/04.) 9 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 10 Q. The next document I want to hand to you, 11 Mr. Martino, is going to be identified as 12 Plaintiff's Exhibit M, and this is dated July 8, 13 1966. It is a special report from the Mellon 14 Institute created for the Union Carbide 15 Corporation, and it's entitled the fibrogenic 16 potential of asbestos products, and it continues 17 on. 18 If you just look at that and tell me if 19 you have ever seen that before. 20 A. No. 21 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 22 Exhibit M was marked for 23 identification as of 12/7/04.) 24 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. The next one I am going to hand you, 2 Mr. Martino, is going to be Plaintiff's Exhibit N, 3 and this is another report issued by the Mellon 4 Institute. This one is dated September 3rd, 1971, 5 and is entitled Calidria Asbestos Resin Grade RG 6 244, and just ask you again if you have ever seen 7 that document before. 8 A. No. 9 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 10 Exhibit N was marked for 11 identification as of 12/7/04.) 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. The next one I am going to hand you, 14 Mr. Martino, is going to be Plaintiff's Exhibit O. 15 And, this one is entitledAsbestos as aHealth 16 Hazard in the United Kingdom by IC Sayres from the 17 Union Carbide UK Limited Branch. And, if you look 18 at the last page, you'll see it's dated 19 May 12 of 1967. And, my question is have you ever 20 seen that. 21 A. No, I did not. 22 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 23 Exhibit O was marked for 24 identification as of 12/7/04.) 149 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 2 Q. The next document I want to hand you is 3 going to be marked Plaintiff's Exhibit P. And, 4 this is a letter from a Mr. William Bradley & 5 Associates dated November 28, 1972. The subject is 6 Environmental Health Consultation, and this was 7 sent to Mr. Allbright and carbon copied to a 8 C.F. Martino, and I want to askyou if you have 9 ever seen this before. 10 A. If I was copied, I saw it. 11 Q. Did you have the opportunity to at least 12 flip through here and see if you recognize this 13 conversation or ever receiving this at all? 14 A. Conversation? 15 Q. I apologize. Did you have an opportunity 16 now to just flip through this to see if you 17 recognize or remember ever receiving this letter? 18 A. It was a letter of correspondence I was 19 receiving at the time, but if I was on the 20 distribution list, I did receive it. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. But it was concerning manufacturing, so 23 there was nothing that I saw in quickly reading it 24 that required my follow-up. 150 151 152 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 Q. And, if you were on a carbon copy list, 2 would you have read a document, that document, or 3 any such document, at or around the time you would 4 have received it? 5 MS. CLARK: Object to form. 6 THE WITNESS: I would probably have read it 7 within a week. 8 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 9 Exhibit P was marked for 10 identification as of 12/7/04.) 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. Next one I want to hand you, Mr. Martino, 13 is a Union Carbide internal correspondence dated 14 October 17, 1974. The subject is Phenolic Molding 15 Materials BMNA-5440 Asbestos Free, and it is 16 written by a P.B. Potter. 17 Let me just ask you if you have seen that 18 before, please? 19 A. No. I was no longer in the area. 20 Q. You were no longer in the area as of that 21 date of the letter, which is October 6, '74? 22 A. As I recall, my transfer was earlier than 23 that. 24 Q. Okay. Have you seen that document since 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 you began -- since after your first deposition in 2 October of 2001? 3 A. No. 4 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 5 Exhibit Q was marked for 6 identification as of 12/7/04.) 7 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 8 Q. Okay. The next document I want to show 9 you, Mr. Martino, is a Union Carbide correspondence 10 from an F.A. Schillinger to a C.F. Martino, and 11 it's dated May 29, 1973, and the subject is Molding 12 Material Meeting. And, I ask you if, first, is 13 that Martino referenced there, is that you, sir? 14 A. My name, yes, that's me. 15 I am sorry. Were there any other 16 questions on this? 17 Q. Yes, sir. Is that a document that you 18 would have received at the time that letter was 19 written? 20 And, I'm sorry. I don't have it in front 21 of me. The date? 22 A. Yes, May 29, 1973. 23 Q. Do you recall the contents of that letter 24 or the subject matter that was being discussed? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 2 THE WITNESS: I would have to re-read it. 3 There are a number of subjects here. 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this. Have you seen 6 that document -- when is the last time you saw that 7 document? 8 A. In 1973. 9 Q. So, you haven't seen that since your first 10 deposition in 2001? 11 A. I don't recall. I have seen documents 12 like this, but I am not sure whether this was one 13 of them. 14 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 15 Exhibit R was marked for 16 identification as of 12/7/04.) 17 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 18 Q. Okay. The next one I want to hand you, 19 Mr. Martino, is dated October 5th, 1972, and it is 20 a Union Carbide letter from an S.B. Nelson to 21 P.B. Potter, and this is -- the subject is General 22 Electric Company elimination of molding material 23 using asbestos, and just ask you if you have seen 24 that document before. 153 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. Yes, I have. 2 Q. When is the last time you saw that 3 document? Would that have been more or less at the 4 time it was written, or since you have been - 5 since your first deposition. 6 A. Since my first dep. I saw it when it was 7 first written, but since my first deposition I saw 8 it again. 9 Q. And, in fact, you are carbon copied on 10 that? 11 A. Yes. Oh, wait a minute. Yes, I am. 12 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 13 Exhibit S was marked for 14 identification as of 12/7/04.) 15 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 16 Q. The next document is Plaintiff's T, and 17 this one is dated February 29, 1972. This is from 18 F.W. Duka to Mr. Allbright, and it appears to be to 19 yourself, as well as Mr. Potter. And, let me ask 20 you, first off, is that you that this letter is 21 referring to being carbon copied to? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you recall having seen that letter? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 154 155 156 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 THE WITNESS: I would have seen it, since it 2 was addressed to me. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. Have you seen that since you gave your 5 first deposition in 2001? 6 A. I don't recall it coming up in any of 7 the -- anything I have seen since 2001. 8 (Whereupon, Plaintiff Deposition 9 Exhibit T was marked for 10 identification as of 12/7/04.) 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. Okay. And, let me see if we can go 13 through some quick questions, and, then, maybe 14 that's it for now. How is that? 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. Mr. Martino, do you know whether or not 17 Union Carbide did anything to advise anybody about 18 the potential health hazards of an exposure to 19 asbestos from the time 1959 to 1974? 20 MS. CLARK: Objection, ambiguous, vague, 21 foundation. 22 THE WITNESS: I am aware of some -- there were 23 communications, but I don't know the details. 24 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Be 1 Q. When you say there were communications, 2 Mr. Martino, were you referring to communications 3 between Union Carbide employees? 4 A. No. Your first question was between 5 Union Carbide and customers, is that right? 6 Q. Well, it was actually about anybody, so, 7 okay. 8 A. I was aware there were communications, but 9 I don't know specifically what they were. 10 Q. Do you know when those communications 11 would have first started? 12 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 13 THE WITNESS: No. 14 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 15 Q. Do you know whether or not Union Carbide 16 placed a warning concerning the potential health 17 hazards of asbestos on any of its asbestos 18 containing Bakelite materials from the time 1959 to 19 1974, while you were working in the Bakelite group? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. When did they first put labels warning 22 about the potential hazard of asbestos? 23 A. As I recall, it was in 1973 earlier part. 24 Q. Do you recall what that labeling would 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 have said? 2 A. I don't remember all of it, but something 3 to the effect that it could be hazardous to your 4 health, and it did say contains asbestos. 5 Q. When is the last time you saw a label that 6 would have been warning about the hazards of 7 asbestos on aBakeliteproduct? 8 A. When is the last time? 9 Q. Yes, sir. 10 A. I didn't specifically go looking for 11 labels, so I don't know. 12 Q. Have you seen any documentation, since you 13 started testifying in 2001, that would indicate if 14 and when Union Carbide placed a warning concerning 15 the potential health hazards of asbestos on 16 Bakelite products? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you recall what that -- first of all, 19 strike that. 20 What was it that you looked at since that 21 deposition? 22 A. It was a letter instructing manufacturing 23 to place warning labels on the bags. 24 Q. And, who wrote that letter, if you recall? 157 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. I don't remember the name. 2 Q. Were you -- did you receive that letter 3 that you're talking about back when you were 4 working at Union Carbide in the Bakelite group, or 5 is that something that you saw for the first time 6 in a setting such as this? 7 A. I don't remember if I was on the 8 distribution list. 9 Q. Feel lucky. We are not going to go ahead 10 and read through all the documents. 11 Do you know, Mr. Martino, if the Bakelite 12 group at Union Carbide ever had a medical director? 13 A. Yes. Oh, the -- let's go back. Bakelite 14 group or plant? 15 Q. Just the Bakelite group right now. A. Not just forBakelite group, no. Q. But Union Carbide did have a medical director for - A. The plant. Q. For the company we can say, the entire 21 company, is that fair? 22 A. Well, they had a medical director at the 23 plant. 24 Q. Okay. 158 159 160 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 A. But by that I mean a doctor. And, then, 2 they had medical directors in Danbury. 3 Q. And, Danbury was the headquarters? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. So, the Bakelite group itself didn't have 6 a separate medical director or person? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did the Bakelite group ever have a 9 separate industrial hygienist from Union Carbide 10 Corporation itself? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 12 THE WITNESS: That I don't know. 13 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 14 Q. Did the Bakelite group ever maintain a 15 library that dealt with safety separate from that 16 of the corporation? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 18 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 19 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 20 Q. Did the Bakelite group ever maintain any 21 sort of library dealing with safety issues outside 22 of Union Carbide Corporation? 23 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 24 THE WITNESS: I have seen correspondence that 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 there were meetings with other companies, but I am 2 not familiar with the details. 3 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 4 Q. Did the Bakelite group -- strike that. 5 Could the Bakelite group rely or utilize 6 any of the other services that may have been 7 available to them through the corporation, or were 8 they a separate entity? 9 MS. CLARK: Objection, ambiguous. 10 THE WITNESS: They were not a separate entity. 11 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 12 Q. So, the Bakelite group was part of the 13 Union Carbide Corporation? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. So, when you received your 16 paychecks, while you were working for the Bakelite 17 group, they came from Union Carbide, right? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you have a health plan, while you were 20 working in the Bakelite group? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And, when that health plan, was that from 23 Union Carbide Corporation? 24 A. Yes. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 Q. So, that wasn't something separate to the 2 Bakelite group? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Mr. Martino, are you familiar with the 5 AIA? 6 A. I have seen that. I don't -- I don't 7 recall what it stands for. 8 Q. Have you ever heard of the Asbestos 9 Information Association of North America? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Mr. Martino, you were never, while you 12 were working at the Bakelite group, you were never 13 a part of the distribution list for any other 14 groups in Union Carbide aside from the Bakelite 15 group, is that correct? 16 A. I was on the list, if it was relevant. I 17 was not limited to just the area I was working in. 18 Q. For example, if there wasa distribution 19 list that related to Union Carbide's Calidria 20 asbestos business, you wouldn't have been part of 21 that distribution list, is that correct? 22 A. No, no. That's a separate division. 23 Q. Mr. Martino, you don't consider yourself 24 an expert in electrical work, do you? 161 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 A. No. 2 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 3 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, Kate. I jumped the 4 gun again. 5 MS. CLARK: That's okay. 6 THE WITNESS: Let's go back to that one. By 7 electrical work, do you meanI am anelectrician? 8 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. No, I am not. 11 Q. You don't consider yourself trained in the 12 electrical field in terms of applications, splicing 13 cables, and things of that nature, do you? 14 A. That'scorrect. 15 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 16 THE WITNESS: I am not an electrician. 17 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 18 Q. In terms of the steps necessary in the 19 electrical trade that an electrician might undergo 20 in order to make a connection or to otherwise work 21 with wire and cable and similar products, you're 22 not an expert in that area, correct? 23 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 24 THE WITNESS: Now, by saying I am not an 162 163 164 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 expert, is that implying to you that I am not aware 2 of anything that's being done in that part of the 3 industry? 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. No. Here is what I am getting at. You 6 don't hold yourself out, you don't consider 7 yourself to be an expert in what an electrician 8 needs to do to make connections or to run cable or 9 to splice cable or things of that nature? 10 A. That's right. 11 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 12 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 13 Q. I'm sorry. Did you say - 14 A. No, I am not an expert in that area. 15 Q. Mr. Martino, do you know a John Moalli, 16 M-O-A-L-L-I? 17 A. Doesn't ring a bell right now. 18 Q. Do you know a Victorio Argento? 19 A. That doesn't -- I am not familiar with 20 that name, either. At least not now. 21 Q. Mr. Martino, do you know if Union Carbide 22 ever instructed any distributor of a finished 23 Bakelite product to place a warning on that 24 product? 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation, vague, 2 ambiguous. 3 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 4 BY MR. JAGOLINZER: 5 Q. Mr. Martino, do you have anything in your 6 personal life right now that would prevent you from 7 coming to testify in Mr. Bentley's case in the 8 first, second or third week of January? Tougher 9 question. 10 A. You threw me a curve. I would have to 11 look at my calendar. 12 Q. Okay. Have you been asked to come to 13 Broward County Florida to testify in this case some 14 time in January? 15 A. Have I been asked? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. No. 18 Q. If you were asked, would you be able to 19 come, to your knowledge today? 20 A. If I did not have any commitments and my 21 wife didn't object, I probably would. 22 Q. I appreciate your time, Mr. Martino. It 23 was a pleasure meeting you. That's really all the 24 questions I have for right now. 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 MS. CLARK: Can we go off for a moment? 2 (Whereupon, a discussion 3 was had off the record.) 4 MS. CLARK: I don't have any questions. We'll 5 ;rve. 6 (FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT.) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 165 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 2 17TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND 3 FOR BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA 4 5 MONA BENTLEY, 6 Plaintiff 7 -v- ) ) )No. 02-11900 (27) 8 UNION CARBIDE CORP., et al., ) 9 Defendants. ) 10 11 This is to certify that I have read 12 the transcript of my deposition taken in the 13 above-entitled cause by Elvira M. Kokott, 14 Certified Shorthand Reporter, on December 7, 2004, 15 and that the foregoing transcript accurately states 16 the questions asked of me and the answers given by 17 me as they now appear. 18 19 Carlo Martino 20 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO 21 before me this day 22 of , A.D. 20 . 23 24 Notary Public 166 167 168 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo In Bentley 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) 2 ) SS: 3 COUNTY OF L A K E ) 4 I, Elvira M. Kokott, a Notary Public 5 within and for the County of Lake, State of 6 Illinois, and a Certified Shorthand Reporter of 7 said state, do hereby certify: 8 That previous to the commencement of the 9 examination of the witness, the witness was duly 10 sworn to testify the whole truth concerning the 11 matters herein; 12 That the foregoing deposition transcript 13 was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter 14 reduced to typewriting under my personal direction 15 and constitutes a true record of the testimony 16 given and the proceedings had; 17 That the said deposition was taken before 18 me at the time and place specified; 19 That the reading and signing by the 20 witness of the deposition transcript was agreed 21 upon as stated herein; 22 That I am not a relative or employee or 23 attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of 24 such attorney or counsel for any of the parties 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in 2 the outcome of this action. 3 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I do hereunto set my 4 hand and affix my seal of office at Chicago, 5 Illinois, this 10th day of December, 2004. 6 7 Notary Public, Lake County, Illinois. 8 My commission expires June 3, 2008. 9 10 11 C.S.R. Certificate No. 84-3309. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 12/7/2004 Martino, Carlo in Bentley 1 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. 200 North LaSalle Street, Suite 300 2 Chicago, Illinois 60601-1014 (312) 263-0052 3 December 13, 2004 4 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw, LLP 5 Ms. Katherine Clark 190 South LaSalle Street 6 Chicago, IL 60603 7 IN RE: Bentley -v- Union Carbide COURT NUMBER: 02-11900 (27) 8 DATE TAKEN: 12/7/04 DEPONENT: Mr. Carlo Martino 9 Dear Ms. Clark: 10 Enclosed is the deposition transcript for the 11 aforementioned deponent in the above-entitled cause. Also enclosed are additional signature 12 pages, if applicable, and errata sheets. 13 Per your agreement to secure signature, please submit the transcript to the deponent for review 14 and signature. All changes or corrections must be made on the errata sheets, not on the transcript 15 itself. All errata sheets should be signed and all signature pages need to be signed and notarized. 16 After the deponent has completed the above, please 17 return all signature pages and errata sheets to me at the above address, and I will handle 18 distribution to the respective parties. 19 If you have any questions, please call me at the above telephone number. 20 Sincerely, 21 22 Ms. Margaret Setina Ms. Elvira M. Kokott Signature Department Court Reporter 23 cc: All Counsel of Record 24 169 170 171