Document dYD1R21aawvmd9ED22xjJpGZB

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA NEVADA POWER COMPANY, ) ) Plaintiff, ) -vs- ) ) # CV-S-89-555-LDG MONSANTOCOMPANY, et al., ) ) ) Defendants. ) 30(b)(6) DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OF JOHN H. CRADDOCK On the part of the Plaintiff July 21, 1993 Concamon & Jaeger General Court Reporters 705 Olive Street, Suite 604 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 (314) 421-1000 WATER PCB-00049973 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OP NEVADA 2 NEVADA POWER COMPANY, ) 3) Plaintiff, ) 4 vs- ) # CV-S-89-555-LDG (LRL) ) 5 MONSANTO COMPANY, et al., 6 Defendants 7 8 9 *** 10 INDEX 11 WITNESS ; Pagej 12 JOHN G. CRADDOCK 13 Direct Examination by Mr. Bradley ........ 4 14 EXHIBITS 15 Plaintiff ' s Deposition Exhibit # 1220. e 0 a 0 a 0 a a 75 Plaintiff ' & Deposition Exhibit f 1232. 9 & 0 a * 74 f 76 16 Plaintiff 1 s Deposition Exhibit # 1224. a 0 a 0 0 78 Plaintif ' s Deposition Exhibit # 2816. 0m a a 54 17 Plaintiff ' s Deposition Exhibit # 2846. a 0 0 0 0 a a 78 Plaintiff ' s Deposition Exhibit 1 2914. 9 0 a a a 0 a a 74 18 Plaintiff * 8 Deposition Exhibit # 2915. 0 a 0 & 0 a a 64 Plaintiff ' S Deposition Exhibit f 2916 * 9 0 a a 0 e a 64 19 Plaintiff ' S Deposition Exhibit # 2917. % 0 0 0 a a 60 Plaintiff ' S Deposition Exhibit $ 2918. f * * a 0 0 & a 59 20 Plaintiff ' e Deposition Exhibit f 2919. 9 0 0 # a a 0 56 Plaintiff s Deposition Exhibit # 2920. 9 e 0 0 0 a 9 9 54 21 Plaintiff *s Deposition Exhibit # 3066. e 0 @ 0 0 .64, 65 22 23 24 25 -2- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049974 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA 2 3 NEVADA POWERCOMPANY, ) ) 4 Plaintiff, ) -VS- 5) MONSANTOCOMPANY, St ll.f ) 6) Defendants, ) 7 ) f CV-S-89-555-LDG(LRL) e 30(b)(6) DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OP WITNESS, to be used 9 in an action pending in the District Court of the United 10 States, for the District of Nevada, wherein NEVADA POWER 11 COMPANY is Plaintiff, and MONSANTO COMPANY, et al. are 12 Defendants, pursuant to Notice, under the provisions of 13 Rule 26 of the Rules of Civil Procedure, taken on July 21, 14 1993, at the law offices of Messrs * Husch, Eppenberger, 15 Donohue, Cornfeld & Jenkins, 100 N. Broadway, STe. 1300, 16 St. Louis, Missouri 63102, before Mark D. Concannon, a 17 Notary Public within and for the State of Missouri. 18 APPEARANCES 19 The Plaintiff was represented by Attorney Ralph A. Bradley of the law firm of Jones# Jone^, Close & Brown, 20 Chartered, 700 Bank of America Plaza# 300 South Fourth Street, STe. 700, Las Vegas# Nevada 89101 21 The Defendant, Monsanto# was represented by Attorney 22 Scott R. Bauer of the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis# 1999 Broadway, Ste. 4000, Denver, Colorado 70202. 23 The Defendant, Westinghouse, was represented by 24 Robert P. Morgan, In-House Counsel, Westinghouse Electric Corporation, Westinghouse Building, Gateway Center, 25 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222 . CONCANNON L JAEGER WATER PCB-00049975 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 JOHN H. CRADDOCK, 2 of lawful age, being first duly sworn to tell the truth, 3 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, deposes and 4 says on behalf of the Plaintiff, as follows: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 QUESTIONS BY MR. BRADLEY * 7 Q. Would you please state your name. 8 A. John H. Craddock. o Q. And would you spell your lastname? 10 A. C-r-a-d-d-o-c-k. 11 Q. Dr. Craddock, you're here today as a person 12 designated by Monsanto Company to give testimony in the 13 case of Nevada Power Company versus Monsanto, General 14 Electric, and Westinghouse, as the corporate designee, to 15 discuss those topics contained in Attachment A, subject to 16 a time limitation, as I understand it, and I have had 17 marked for identification as Deposition Exhibit 1 the 18 notice, along with the attachment, that has the topic for 19 today's deposition. 20 You're here today represented by Scott Bauer; 21 is that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 MR. BRADLEYr Mr. Bauer, will you indicate for 24 the record what areas the witness is being tendered on and 25 for what time periods. -4- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049976 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BAUER: Attachment A for the time period 2 from the beginning of 1976 essentially through the present, 3 although I believe Dr. Craddock's official retirement date 4 is in January of 1993. 5 MR. BRADLEYi It is my understanding that Mr. 6 Papageorge just testified to 1976 , not through 1976. Am I 7 incorrect in that? 8 MR * BAUER: Yes, I think so. Sometime in 9 January or February of 1976 -- Mr. Papageorge's testimony 10 is whatever it was. Sometime in that time period he left 11 his responsibility as being directly responsible for PCB 12 matters, and it's our intention to have Dr. Craddock to 13 pick up from that time period. Whether it's January or 14 February of ' 76, it's that basic time period. 15 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Dr. Craddock, you received 1C your doctorate in 1961 from Vanderbilt University; is that 17 correct? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. And did you receive your doctorate in inor 20 ganic chemistry? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Is inorganic chemistrychemistry primarily of 23 mostly noncarbon atoms? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And following completion of your doctorate - 5- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049977 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 degree, you worked for M.W. Kellogg Company in New York 2 City; is that correct? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. You worked there from1961 to1965? 5 A Yes 6 Q. And while you were there you worked in their 7 corporate research department as a research chemist, 8 research specialist; is that correct? 9 A. Right. Varioustitles atthat time. 10 Q. While at M.W. Kellogg Company you were study 11 ing exploratory chemistry of precious metals as a liquid- 12 based catalyst for petrochemical reactions? 13 A. That's correct. 14 MR. BAUER: Excuse me, Mr. Bradley. Mr. 15 Fapageorge was designated with a cutoff date. As we 16 discussed, there is an opening issue about whether he was 17 also covering health hazards to humans during that time 18 period. He was originally designated and then withdrawn, 19 and Dr. Craddock is picking up at that time period, S\. ' 20 covering human health hazards as well as environmental 21 matters. Do you understand what Is saying? 22 MR. BRADLEY: 1 understand what Dr. Craddock's 23 testimony covers on Attachment A, 24 MR. BAUER: All topics on Attachment A for the 2 5 time period January, February of '76 forward, -6- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049978 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BRADLEY: That's correct. 2 When you left the Kellogg Company you began 3 employment with Monsanto Company? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. (by Hr. Bradley) And the work you did at the 6 Kellogg Company did not involve any products containing 7 polychlorinated biphenyls? 8 A. No, it did not, 9 Q, And you began your work with Monsanto Company 10 in 1965? 11 A. Yes. 12 0. And at that time you were in the central 13 research department as a research chemist or research 14 specialist? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And in that kind ofwork you were doing 17 exploratory catalytic reactions of the precious metals for IB synthesis with petrochemicals? 19 A. That's true. 20 Q. And that work involvedpolychlorinated 21 biphenyls only as a tool in the laboratory in a high- 22 temperature heating vat? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. And when you worked with PCB1s in the lab as a 25 research specialist, you used a fume hood; is that correct? -7- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049979 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q, What is a fume hood? 3 A. It's a standard piece of laboratory apparatus 4 that's like a cover that you can close the doors or 5 restrict the access. It has negative pressure so that any 6 fumes from reactions to vapors would be kept within the 7 fume cover. So if you do any type of reactions that 8 involve volatile chemicals, they will not get into the 9 whole laboratory or office part of the facility. They're 10 vented separately from the building. 11 Q. Did the fume hood when you used it in the lab 12 prevent the vapors from the chemicals from entering your 13 system? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q, Is the purpose of a fume hood -- Was the 16 purpose of the fume hood to protect you from breathing the 17 vapors and to prevent the vapors from entering the work 18 place? 19 A. Yes. it's a standard piece of operating 20 equipment in a lab, *> ' 21 Q. You then began working as a senior chemist, 22 research -- Excuse me. In your career at central research 23 you were a senior chemist research specialist and a 24 research group leader? is that correct? 25 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049980 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. And you stayed in the central research depart- 2 merit unti 1 roughly the 1971 time frame? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And during that period of time you were either 5 managing or doing exploratory research? 6 A. That's true. 7 0. And the research you were doing related to 8 precious metals catalysts? 9 A. Yes. That's correct. 10 Q. In 1971 you became a supervisor of commercial 11 development? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And in that job are yourfunctions to transfer 14 successful research projects to one of the operating units 15 of the Monsanto Company? 16 A. That1scorrect. 17 Q. And none of thoseresearchprojects involved 18 products containing PCB's? 19 A. That's true. 20 Q. You then transferred to the Monsanto 21 Industrial Chemicals Company as a manager of commercial 22 development, in the food and fine chemicals division, 23 primarily dealing with food preservatives; is that correct? 24 A. That's true. 25 Q. And that occurred in roughly the '74 time -9- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049981 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 frame? 2 A. That's true. 3 Q. And in that job you were not working with 4 products that contained PCB's? 5 A. That's correct 6 Q. In 1977 you then moved into the environmental 7 operations, which was a newly-formed operations department 8 of the Monsanto Industrial Chemicals Company; is that 9 correct? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. And in that job you did have contact with 12 Monsanto products containing PCB's? 13 A. Yes. 14 0. in that job were you responsible with com 15 pliance with regulations which were promulgated under the 16 Toxic Substances Control Act? 17 A. Yes. Those regulations came into affect from 18 '78 forward. 19 Q, During the time that you had that job did all 20 of Monsanto's plant operations have large amounts of 21 electrical equipment which primarily contained PCB's as a 22 dielectric fluid component of the electric power distribu 23 tion system? 24 A. Yes. 25 0. And you had that jobuntil 1980? - 10 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049982 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. In 1980 did you become the corporate focal 3 point for PCB issues at Monsanto where you answered PCB 4 questions, monitored PCB regulations# provided corporate S responses to regulatory agencies# including questions in 6 the Federal Register# and answered customer questions and 7 calls and so forth? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And you had that job until your retirement in 10 January of 1993? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. And the job that you had between 1980 and 1983 13 did not exist before you got that job in 1980? 14 A. Not in that form, no. 15 Q. And the title of the job you had in 1980 was 16 manager of product and environmental safety? 17 A. I believe that is correct, yes. 18 Q. Did you review any documents in preparation 19 for today's deposition? 20 A. Yes. sf ' 21 Q. What documents did you review? 22 A. I reviewed some of the health effects studies, 23 roughly the time frame, some of the same material that I 24 viewed prior, for my prior deposition, just to refresh my 25 memory on the chronology of when papers were published, and - 11 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049983 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION so forth. Q, So you reviewed the prior depositions you have 3 given in this lawsuit? 4 A. Or the material that was used in those deposi 5 tions , yes. Not the depositions, per ae? but the material 6 that was used in preparation. 7 Q, Did you review the depositions? as well? 8 though? in addition to the materials? 9 A. No. 10 Q. In March of 1976 did you have any responsi 11 bility for any Monsanto products containing PCB'o? 12 A. No, 13 Q. Your first responsibility for working with any 14 products containing PCB's began in 1977? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q, Okay. During your employment at Monsanto, did 17 you ever review any compilation of studies, reports, and 18 other similar kinds of information? that cataloged? as of 19 March of 1976? the dates and substance of Monsanto's *. * 20 acquisition of notice and/or knowledge concerning any and 21 all alleged potential or actual hazards of RGB's or mono- 22 chlorinated biphenyls? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do you know whether in March of 1976 such a 25 compilation of studies or reports existed? - 12 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049984 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. It did not/ to my knowledge. 2 Q, Are you able to tell us what information or 3 studies regarding any and all alleged potential or actual 4 hazards of PCB's or monochlorinated biphenyls Monsanto 5 learned between March of 1976 and 19777 6 A. I can recall the landmark papers and review 7 studies/ I think/ that have been published/ that I read/ 8 that were available., 9 Q. As I understand your testimony, some studies 10 became available during that time and you are able to talk 11 about the studies that you know of that were published 12 between March of 1976 and 1977; is that correct? 13 A. Well/ I can recall/ as I saidf the landmark 14 studies/ and I can probably tell you the gist of some of 15 the information without having the paper in front of me, 16 but I can't discuss the complete study in detail. 17 Q. All right. And it wasn't until 1980, was it, 13 that you made an effort to collect information which sum 19 marized Monsanto's known information about PCB's and PCB 20 issues? f-K ' ' 21 A. That's correct 22 Q. Why did you collect information in 1980 which 23 summarized Monsanto's known Information about PCB'e and PCB 24 issues? 25 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques- - 13 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049985 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tion. Vague, 2 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) You can go ahead and answer 3 now, 4 A. I was newly appointed to a new position# and 5 one of the first tasks that I deemed that was important to 6 do was to review all of the information that I could find 7 from the published literature# from Monsanto files# from 8 anywhere# to learn about PCB's* 9 Q, And did you present that information in a 10 summary report that was provided to Senator Ekhart's 11 committee? 12 A. I did not do that. That information was put 13 together -- I think that testimony was probably presented 14 to the Ekhart Committee in 179# but that was the -- the 15 body of information that bad been assembled was one of the 16 files of information that was at my disposal to review the 17 history of PCB health effects and the history of Monsanto's 18 activities with PCB, 19 Q. I want you to be as specific as you can be in 20 recounting for me where within Monsanto you turned to 21 gather information which summarized Monsanto's known 22 information about PCB's and PCB issues, 23 A, The first thing I did was# I went to the 24 Monsanto library and did a chemical abstract search for 25 published reviews and surveys and summaries of PCB ** 14 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049986 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 articles. 2 Q. is the Monsanto library different from the 3 library in Monsanto's medical department? 4 A. Well, Monsanto medical library is part of the 5 Monsanto's library system. Sometimes they call it the 6 Monsanto Library System, sometimes they call it the 7 Monsanto Information System; but it1s all one library, just 8 different parts are located in different buildings. 9 Q, When you did the chemical abstract search, was 10 that in Monsanto*s Information Center or Monsanto's medical 11 department library? 12 A. This was done at the Information Center, which 13 is the master library, has the master catalogues. 14 Q, what did you receive as a result of your 15 access to the chemical abstract search? 16 A. A couple of the major documents that I recall, 17 which are the standards, one is the very recent 1979 mono 18 graphed by the National Academy of Sciences, entitled 19 "Polychlorinated Biphenyls,* which detailed the significant f-0 * 20 published environmental health effects in animal testing up 21 until its publication. Another document that turned up was 22 a document called -- I think it was called the "Report of 23 the Interagency Task Force on PCB's, which was published 24 in May of 1972. This was the earliest summary of history, 25 usee, known health effects and environmental effects and so - 15 - CONCAMNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049987 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 forth of PCB's. Those were the two major documents that 2 turned up at that time. 3 In addition, I was able to through reading 4 just some of the files and information, I learned of the 5 Bkhart Committee submission and was able to get a copy of 6 that, which was available. 7 Q. 1 am not familiar with the chemical abstract 8 search system, is that a system that allows you to make 9 entries on a computer systems by topic? 10 A, It is today, yes. You can -- It's a very 11 sophisticated search. You can put together chemicals, 12 words in a title, authors, dates and so forth. 13 Q, And how did it function when you used it in 14 1980? 15 A, In 1980 it was a computerized data base, 16 Q. And did you punch in, then, the topic, 17 "PCB's"? 18 A. I did not do that; I had this done. I called 19 the information center. We have information specialists, 20 and you sort of give them a summary of what you're looking 21 for, articles on PCB's related to health effects, and so 22 forth. Primarily summaries and review articles is what I 23 asked for rather than dozens and dozens of individual 24 articles, I was looking for surveys, and particularly the 2 5 moot current surveys that had the latest information and - 16 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049988 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 covered the broadest period of time, up to the latest* 2 Q. In response to your request to the Information 3 Center, did you receive the two reports that you mentioned, 4 the National Academy of Science's report and the Inter 5 agency Task Force report, or did you receive a printout 6 that listed different documents, or did you receive some 7 thing entirely different? 8 A* I don't recall specifically, but many times 9 this comes back as a printout, and then you can circle 10 articles that you want, and if they have them in the stacks 11 or in the reference books, they will provide you with 12 copies of articles, or else you can have them ordered. So 13 I probably used some of all of the techniques above to 14 obtain the information. 15 Q. And you indicated that you also went into the 16 files and other information to learn about the Ekhart 17 Committee submission. Which files did you locate that 18 submission in? 19 A. 1 don't recall how that turned up, whether it 20 turned up on the list or whether it was a -- it was a pub 21 lished document. There were a lot of government documents 22 and public domain documents that turned up. For instance, 23 another major document that turned up was a document known 24 as the Versar Study, which was -- Versar was a contract 25 research organization which had been commissioned by EPA to - 17 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049989 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 essentially do a total history of what is known about 2 PCB's, everything from uses to health effects and 3 environmental effects and so forth. 4 Q. Including information regarding imports and 5 exports? 6 A I don * t know what they had about imports or 7 exports, but Monsanto contributed to the Versar document, 8 For instance# Monsanto made available its production and 9 sales figures. Those numbers in the Versar study come 10 directly from Monsanto. If you compare that with the 11 Ekhart thing, you might not get the curves and graphs and 12 such, but that was available. 13 0. Did you request any information from 14 Monsanto's medical department in your effort to collect 15 information which summarized Monsanto known information 16 about PCB`s and PCB issues? 17 A. Not at that stage# no. I was looking for 18 published information# reviews# summaries of PCB informa 19 tion. 20 Q. Did you ever request that 'anyone within the 21 medical department of Monsanto provide to you information 22 which summarized Monsanto 1 a known information about PC31s 23 and PCB issues? 24 MR. BAUER: Objection. Vague as to the use of 25 the term "information which summarizes information." - 18 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049990 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 But you can answer. 2 A. I don't recall specifically. Some of this 3 information that you are talking about was summarized in 4 the Ekhart Report. There was a summary document in the 5 Ekhart Report that Monsanto subsequently published. It was 6 referred to as the white paper, because it was a white, 7 sort of plastic-covered, booklet with black letters, of 8 Monsanto * s PCB uses, I've forgotten the exact title. This 9 document, which was an overview summary to the Eckart 10 report had this information summarized $ What tests had 11 been done, what types of feeding tests had been done by 12 Monsanto, what significant tests had been published in the 13 literature. And I guess probably the publications went 14 from about '77 or '78. At this time it included what was 15 known about scientific studies that were in progress but 16 not yet published, and so on and so forth. This informa 17 tion was already summarized. I guess it had been done for 18 the Ekhart thing. 19 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I appreciate the depth of 20 your response. I am not certain, though, that I got an 21 answer to my specific question, which was intended to be, 22 between 1980, when you began collecting information, and 23 your retirement, did you ever request anyone within 24 Monsanto's corporate medical department to provide you with 25 any information regarding Monsanto`s knowledge about PCB1s - 19 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049991 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 and FCB issues? 2 A. I guess I don11 understand the question, 3 still. I thought you asked me if anybody had --- if I had 4 asked anybody to provide a summary of information. I asked 5 for specific information from time to time, yes, but I 6 didn't ask for any summary of all information 7 Q. All right. Then between 1980 and your retire 8 ment you did not request a summary from the medical depart 9 ment of the information that was known to Monsanto about 10 the actual or alleged or potential hazards of PCB's? 11 A. Again/ I guess I don't understand the ques 12 tion. There were specific things that I asked fori and 13 when l would ask for information, then they would provide, 14 or answer the questions. 15 Q. Well, then let me try to make the question a 16 little clearer to you. 17 A. Break it down or something. 18 Q. In 1980 you collected information which sum 19 marized Monsanto * s known information about PCB's and PCB 20 issues, correct? ' 21 A. Yes, along with everybody else's. 22 Q. As part of that effort did you request that 23 Monsanto * s corporate medical department provide you with 24 summaries about what was known about the potential or 25 alleged hazards of PCB's and PCB issues? - 20 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049992 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. In 1980 I did not. 2 Q. Did you request that information ever from 3 Monsanto's corporate medical department? The summary, I'm 4 talking about. 5 MR. BAUER* I think it's still vague. I mean, 6 I don't understand the use of the word "summary in this 7 context. 8 THE WITNESSi Can I say something. 9 MR. BAUERj No. Because any -- 10 Well, is this like a bibliography, a purported 11 summary of everything that is was known, or an abstract of 12 a particular paper, all of which would fit easily within 13 the definition of the word "summary." 14 MR. BRADLEYt Well, I don't think I'm pre 15 pared to define "summary." I am entitled to know whether 16 he views himself as requesting a summary, and then, if he 17 did, I'll ask about it. But I appreciate your effort to 18 narrow any confusion, or eliminate any confusion about my 19 question. 20 MR. BAUERj Obviously, anything that you can 21 think of falling under the word "summary" is included in 22 that answer. 1 guess. 23 MR. BRADLEY* That's correct. 24 A. I guess I'm not quite sure what the question 25 is, but I will give you an answer about what summaries I - 21 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049993 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 asked for. I can tell you I asked for specific summaries 2 of specific information at various times, but I didn't ask 3 for summaries for all information at all times, 4 Q. (by Mr* Bradley) All right. So you did make 5 a request for summaries of some information from Monsanto's 6 corporate medical department in I960 until the time you 7 retired? 8 A. Yes1 testified to that previously. 9 0. On what topics did you request summaries from 10 Monsanto's corporate medical department between 1980 and 11 the time of your retirement? 12 A. The first summary that 1 asked for was probab 13 ly in the fall of 1980, about that time frame. After I had 14 been in the job a few months, I asked Dr. Gaffey, who was 15 the director of our epidemiology department, to provide me 16 with a summary of all of the known human health effect 17 studies that, had been published. 18 Q. Did you request summaries on any other topics 19 from Monsanto's corporate medical department? 20 A. Yes. In 1981, I asked the director of our 21 toxicology department to provide me with summaries of our 22 chronic animal-feeding studies that had been performed at 23 IBT Laboratories, a summary of the data, and a summary of 24 information related to other animals' feeding studies - 25 PCB's. - 22 - COMCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049994 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Any other topics? 2 A, From the corporate medical department? 3 Q. Yes, 4 A. Those are the two major topics that come to 5 mind. 6 Q. Between i960 and until the time of your 7 retirement did Monsanto's corporate medical department 8 Include the industrial hygiene section? 9 A. Yes, it did. 10 Q. Between 1980 and the time of your retirement 11 did Monsanto's medical department include a toxicology 12 section or department? 13 A, Yes. 14 Q. Who was the head of toxicology within 15 Monsanto *s medical department in 1981? 16 A. I believe it was Dr. George Levinskas, 17 Q. Did Dr. Gaffey provide you with a summary of 18 all of the known human health affect studies that had been 19 published? 20 A. What Dr. Gaffey provided me with was a sum21 mary of the significant literature of human epidemiological 22 studies and some clinical studies which had been published 23 primarily in the Peer Review Journal, and he prepared this 24 in a format suitable for a presentation in a Peer Review 25 Journal, because it hadn't been done, to our knowledge, ^ 23 -- CONCANNOII & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049995 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 before. 2 MR. BRADLEY 1 Off the record. 3 (Thereupon, a short colloquy was had.) 4 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Back on the record. Dr. 5 Craddock, does the document prepared by Dr. Gaffey have 6 your name on it? 7 A. Not to my knowledge, no. 8 C. How do you spell Gaffey? 9 A. G-a-f-f-e-y. 10 Q. Between 1980 and Let me start all over 11 again. Between March of 1976 and today, did you request 12 any other information from Monsanto * s corporate medical 13 department regarding any and all alleged potential or 14 actual hazards of PCB's or roonochlorinated biphenyls? 15 A. Again, I guess the breadth of the question 16 throws me, but yes, I did ask for specific information from 17 Monsanto1s medical department. 18 0. Tel1 me what you can recall regarding your 19 requests to the corporate medical department for informa- 20 tion on that topic. a, ' ' 21 A In 1980 one of the first tasks that I per 22 formed was to published a generic material safety data 23 sheet on polychlorinated biphenyls. 24 Q. Did the published generic material safety data 25 sheet have any information on it other than What I 'm - 24 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049996 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 trying to figure out is, did the material safety data sheet 2 -- which are also known as MSDS`s; is that correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did the MSDS'e that youpublished in generic 5 form in 1980 indicate known toxicologicalinformation 6 regarding PCB1s? 7 A. Yes, they did. 8 MR. BRADLEYi Okay. Would you now go back 9 about three questions. I want to hear the question to 10 which he responded, "In 1980, I published the generic 11 material safety data sheet... 12 (Thereupon, the reporter read back the question and 13 answer) 14 Q. (by Mr, Bradley) What else, if anything, can 15 you recall about requests that you made to Monsanto's 16 corporate medical department regarding any and all alleged 17 potential or actual hazards of polychlorinated biphenyls, 18 or monochlorinated biphenyls? 19 A. Prom time to time various studies would appear 20 in the Peer Review literature that was 'identified in our 21 search. I would have the head of the particular department 22 that had a particular expertise look at these documents in 23 particular and give me their opinion as to what they 24 thought about the document, what it said, since I'm a lay 2 5 man in these terms, to make sure that I understood what the - 25- CON CANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049997 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 author was saying and what their evaluation was of the 2 study, and so forth. 3 Q. Anything else? 4 A, No. That's roughly it. That's about as broad 5 as 1 can make it. 6 Q. All right. And did you make those requests to 7 Monsanto1s corporate medical department regarding those 8 Peer Review Journal articles -- were your requests made in 9 writing? 10 A. Sometimes they may have been; sometimes it may 11 have been as casual as a phone call. 12 Q, And were the responses of the corporate 13 medical department to your requests for reviews of journal 14 articles given to you in written form? 15 A. Sometimes they may have been, and sometimes it 16 would be a phone call back, or whatever, 17 Q. In March of 1976, or at any time later, did 18 Monsanto gain knowledge that exposure to PCB*s on one's 19 skin could lead to the PCB's being absorbed into one's * 20 body? 21 A. In what time period? 22 Q, From March of 1976 to today's date. 23 A. We certainly knew that in 1976, yes. 24 Q. I am going to refer to March, 1976 to today's 25 date as the period. - 26 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049998 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Okay. If we knew It before that? I mean, 2 does that -- you know. I don * t know how you want me to 3 answer that question. 4 MR. BAUERi His question was, "acquired." 5 Listen to the question, and you've got to answer the 6 question as it's posed. 7 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And 1 am going to refer to 8 that time period either as "the date, or "during that 9 period of time," or something similar. 10 During that period of time, did Monsanto know 11 that if PCB's enter the skin, it could cause a condition 12 known as chloracne? 13 A. Under certainconditions, yes. 14 Q, And during that period of time, did Monsanto 15 know that if PCB's entered the body through the skin in 16 sufficient quantities to cause chloracne, that it could be 17 a sign of more systemic poisoning? 18 A. I guess I don't know what you mean by the term 19 "systemic poisoning." 20 Q. Did Monsanto know that during that time that, 21 if PCB's entered the body through the skin and chloracne 22 was formed, that it could be an indication of damage to 23 one's liver, or to -- 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. During that period of time, did Monsanto learn - 27 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00049999 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 that any of its PCB products contained polychlorinated 2 dibenzofurans? 3 A Did it learn during this time period? We 4 certainly knew during the time period, whether we had 5 learned it during that time period -- I will say yes 6 0 So in March of 1976 Monsanto knew that some of 7 its PCB products contained polychlorinated dibenzofurans, 8 correct? 9 MR. BAUERi Object to the form. I think what 10 he just testified to was that it knew it during the time 11 period -- Monsanto knew that during this time period, but 12 he wasn't sure when it learn it. So I don't know how he 13 could answer the next question, when did it know it in 14 1976, when he has testified he didn't know when it learned 15 it. 16 But go ahead, if you can answer. 17 0. (by Mr. Bradley) As I understand your answer, 18 you don't know the specific date that Monsanto learned that 19 some of its PCB products contained polychlorinated dibenzo20 furans, but it knew that information by at least March of 21 1976; is that correct? 22 A. I believe that is correct 23 Q. During this time period, did Monsanto learn 24 anything about the alleged or potential or actual hazards 2 5 of the polychlorinated dibenzofurans which were part of the - 28 - CONCANHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050000 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PCB mixtures manufactured by Monsanto? 2 MR* BAUERi Objection* Vague as to whether 3 you are talking about knowledge of furans, generally; in 4 any dose, or knowledge in the dosage that they were being 5 found in the Arodors. 6 MR* BRADLEYi Read the question back* 7 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 8 question.) 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. (by Mr* Bradley) When did it learn that 11 information? 12 A. I don't think that there is a specific date. 13 During that time period they knew that information. 14 0* Did Monsanto -- Do you know whether Monsanto 15 knew that information -- and by "that information," I'm 16 talking about the alleged or real hazard of the poly 17 chlorinated dibenzofurans -- before March of 1976? 18 MR. BAUER: Same objection. Vague as to 19 whether we're talking about any dose versus, for instance, 20 the dose in the Aroclors. ' 21 A. What Monsanto knew was that the testing result 22 of the Aroclor polychlorinated biphenyls gave a certain re 23 sult, whether that result was based on the testing of these 24 materials as manufactured, as they came from the plant, as 25 they were shipped, as they were used. So whatever the re - 29 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050001 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 salt was was the result of the commercial material with 2 whatever it contained, so the test results that were 3 obtained would show no chronic effects, had no chronic 4 effects, or the PCB, ae they had no effects. So what they 5 knew is that the material, ae tested, gave whatever result 6 it gave, and whatever it contained contributed to that or 7 did not contribute to that So that is what they knew. 8 Q. Did Monsanto learn anything during this time o period about any specific health effects associated with 10 polychlorinated dibenzofurans of the type that were found 11 in Monsanto's PCB products? 12 A. I guess I don't know bow to answer that ques 13 tion, either. It's very broad and vague. I'm not sure 14 what you're looking for. 15 Q. Well, I'm less interested in you're knowing 16 what I'm looking for than in your answering my question. 17 But if they go hand in hand, then I can make an effort to 18 make my question better understood. I'm interested in 19 knowing whether, during this time period, Monsanto learned 20 any distinct information regarding the ''health hazards of 21 polychlorinated dibenzofurans of the type that were found 22 in Monsanto's PCB products. 23 A. To my knowledge, there has been no direct 24 testing of PCDP, per se, to determine health effects of 25 animals or humans or anything else, So I would say the - 30 - CONCANNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00050002 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 answer is no. I don * t know of any direct testing of PCB's 2 at any time. 3 Q. Are you aware of any papers that have dis 4 cussed the relative toxicity of polychlorinated dibenzo- 5 furans, comparing their toxicity to the toxicity, for 6 example, of PCB's? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. When did Monsanto learn that information? 9 MR. BADERt object to the form, it's beyond 10 the scope in terms of time frame. 11 But you can answer to the extent that you know 12 the answer. 13 A. The relative comparisons of toxicities was 14 first discussed in the scientific literature in about the 15 1982-*83 time frame. 16 Q* (by Mr. Bradley) So is that roughly the 17 period, then, when Monsanto learned the information? 18 A. About the relative toxicities? 19 Q. Yes 20 A. Or -- I'd say it's when Monsanto learned that 21 there were relative comparisons of toxicities being made. 22 This is without testing data This is based on other -- 23 Q. So Monsanto learned of the information about 24 the time that the comparisons were made in the published 25 1iterature? - 31 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050003 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BAUER: Objection. Vague as to how the 2 term, "the information, is now being used in the question. 3 Q, (by Mr. Bradley) All right. And Monsanto 4 learned about the comparative toxicities of PCDP's with 5 PCB's at or about the time that the comparisons were pub 6 lished in the literature? 7 MR. BAUER * Objection Still vague. We have 8 designated him from *76 forward. So he is not familiar 9 with everything Monsanto knew prior to 176. 10 MR. BRADLEY: But he already indicated that 11 literature came out in "82. 12 MR. BAUER: That's a specific piece of litera 13 ture he's talking about. 14 MR. BRADLEY: You are the one who designated 15 him on this topic. He's given an answer that indicates his 16 knowledge within the period for which he's been presented. 17 I'm not interested in any answer regarding in 18 formation that predates March of '76* You're here to give 19 testimony regarding the period of time, March of '76 to 20 today, July 21, 1993. 21 THE WITNESS: Is that today? 22 MR. BRADLEY: I'll ask that question again. 23 THE WITNESS: I thought I answered with 24 reference to 1982. That is within that time frame, right? 25 MR. BRADLEY: Yes. - 32 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050004 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken) 2 Q. (by Mr Bradley) Has Monsanto received during 3 this period of time any information indicating that PCB's 4 may be harmful to human health? 5 A Yes. 6 Q. And what information did Monsanto learn during 7 this period that indicates that PCB's may be harmful to 8 human health? 9 MR. BAUER* Objection, Overbroad. 10 But you can answer. 11 MR. BRADLEY: It's intended to be broad. 12 I'm really interested in all that you know on 13 that topic, as beet you are able to recall. 14 A. There have been various publications from 15 newspapers to preambles in legislative history of regula 16 tions , scientific articles, pseudoscience, that made all 17 sorts of statements about PCB health effects, some of it 18 based on good hard science, some of it based on not so good 19 science. So there are be publications that have come to 20 opposite conclusions using similar data". 21 Q, (by Mr, Bradley) Well, did Monsanto, during 22 this period of time, know of any hazards to human health 23 from exposure to polychlorinated biphenyls? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What did Monsanto learn during this period - 33 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050005 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 about real hazards to human health from exposure to poly 2 chlorinated biphenyls? 3 MR. BAUERt Object to the form. Use of the 4 word "real.* I take it what you mean is things that 5 Monsanto thought was good science or agreed with the 6 conclusions on? 7 MR, BRADLEYi That's fine. 8 Not pseudoscience, that you referred to in the 9 prior answer. 10 A. As far as clinical effects, Monsanto knew that 11 PCD'st like other chlorinated organic compounds, would 12 cause dermatological reactions. Monsanto also knew that 13 PCB*s, like other chlorinated organic chemicals? could 14 cause liver injuries, Those are well known and well 15 established. 16 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Anything else? 17 A. It was known that if you got PCB * s in your 18 eyes, the same as these other chlorinated chemicals, it 19 could cause a burning sensation to the eyes. 20 Q. Anything else? 21 A, Depending on the dose and the species, other 22 effects from PCB1s, like other chemicals, could occur. 23 Q. What other effects did Monsanto know during 24 this period could occur from exposure to PCB`s? 25 MR. BAUER: Object to the form. I thought the w 34 ^ CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050006 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 2 previous question was talking about human health effects, 2 and now I think you are following up on species, and it's 3 unclear to me whether we * re talking human health effects or 4 for animals. 5 Q. (by Mr, Bradley) What other human health 6 effects did Monsanto know one could have if they were 7 exposed to PCB's? 8 A. Clinical manifestations. Those are the major 9 known health effects. 10 Q. Did Monsanto ever gain knowledge during this 11 period of time of studies showing a relationship between 12 malignant melanoma and exposure to PCB'c? 13 A. Showing a relationship? 14 A. Yes * 15 Q. I don't recall ever having seen a paper that 16 shows a statistical relationship between statistically 17 significant malignant melanoma and exposure to PCB's. 18 Q. Did Monsanto ever learn during this period of 19 time of any increased incidences of brain tumors in people 20 exposed to PCB'a? ' 21 A. Againr there have been reports in the news 22 media and in the published literature that there is an 23 elevated increase of brain tumors, but, again* I don't 24 think this has been reported to be statistically signifi 25 cant . - 35 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050007 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 2 that exposure to PCB1s could result in a statistically 3 significant increase in adverse reproductive abilities in 4 humans? 5 MR* BAUERi Object to the form of the ques 6 tion * 7 MR. BRADLEYi What's wrong with the form? 8 MR* BAUERi The use of the word "could." Does 9 that mean it would, does, or has anyone alleged in any pub 10 lication ever that it does? 11 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) During this period of time 12 did Monsanto learn of any studies indicating a relationship 13 between exposure of PCB'a and adverse reproductive effects 14 in human beings? 15 A, I don't recall any statistically significant 16 correlation between PCB1s and human reproduction. 17 Q, I appreciate the answer, but that really 18 wasn't my question. My question was, during this period of 19 time did Monsanto learn of any -- No matter what my ques 20 tion was, my question now iar during this period of time 21 did Monsanto learn that there is an increased incidence of 22 adverse reproductive effects in humans exposed to PCB1s? 23 A* There have been literature reports of in 24 creased adverse reproductive effects. I don't think these 25 have been shown to be statistically significant. - 36 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050008 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 2 that there was an increased incidence in reproductive fail 3 ure of women who were exposed to PCB's? 4 MR* BAUERi Object, Asked and answered. 5 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) 1 asked on humans before/ 6 now I am specifically asking relative to women. 7 A. I don't think there is any information that 8 shows a statistical significance in reproductive ill 9 effects in women. 10 Q. During this period of tiro did Monsanto learn 11 any information that reported an increase in breast cancer 12 in women exposed to PCB's? 13 A. There have been newspaper accounts alleging 14 this/ but there is no statistically-significant scientific 15 information that links PCB's as a causal agent in breast 16 cancer in women. 17 Q. Do you know whether polychlorinated dibenzo- 18 furans are formed when PCB * s are heated to low tempera 19 tures? 20 A f^ ' The U.S. EPA has published data on the forma 21 tion of polychlorinated dibenzofurans from PCB*s. The pub 22 lished EPA data indicates that the PCDF's are formed in the 23 presence of oxygen/ excessive oxygen/ when the temperature 24 exceeds about six hundred degrees centigrade, which is a 25 fairly high temperature. - 37 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050009 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Do you know whether transformers or capacitors 2 containing PCS dielectric fluid blended by Monsanto ever 3 reach temperatures that would result in the formation of 4 polychlorinated dibenzofurans? 5 MR. BAUERi Object to the form of the ques 6 tion. Lacks foundation and outside of the copy of the 7 30(b)(6) Notice. 8 MR. BRADLEY* The rules are, you answer unless 9 you're instructed not to. 10 A. I guess the question is unclear. Are you 11 talking about normal1y-functioning equipment, or malfunc 12 tioning equipment, or catastrophic conditions, or how? 13 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Under anyconditions, par 14 ticularly conditions of failure. 15 A. There have been reports that under cata 16 strophic conditions, fire, that PCDP9s could be generated 17 from PCB's and dielectric fluid, and -- 18 Q. And what? 19 . A. I was trying to think. From PCB's or PCB * 20 blended fluids? Is that correct? You 'asked about PCB 21 blended fluids? 22 Q. Isn't there a different in your answer if I 23 said PCB's or PCB blended fluids? 24 A. Well, yes, there is. 25 0. How would the answer be different if we were - 38 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050010 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 discussing PCDP's and PCB's versus PCB fluids? 2 A. PCDF*s have been shown to be generated from 3 PCB fluids under catastrophic fire conditions PCDF * s have 4 also been shown to come from trichlorobenzenes under cata 5 strophic fire conditions. Trichlorobenzenes in some cases 6 can be part of an askarel blended fluid. 7 Q, Are they scavengers? 8 A. Are what a scavenger? 9 Q. Is trichlorobenzene a scavenger? 10 MR. BAUERt Object to the form. Lacks founda 11 tion and is outside of the scope. 12 But you can give him your understanding. 13 A. Trichlorobenzene is part of the blended fluid 14 and functions as a dielectric purpose. 15 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Prom 1980 to today's date, 16 as opposed to the prior period of time we have been talking 17 aboutt has there been someone within Monsanto responsible 18 for keeping current on the alleged potential or actual 19 hazards of polychlorinated biphenyls? /^ 1 20 A. Yes. ' 21 Q. Who was that person or who were those people? 22 A. Prom June, 1980, until January 29th or 30th, 23 1993, it was me. Prom the date I retired, I guese it was 24 the next Monday, it would have been February 1st to the 25 present, it would be Dr. Gary Mappes, M-a-p-p-e-s. - 39 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050011 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. During this period of time as we previously 2 defined it, March, *76 to today's date, did Monsanto gain 3 any information that PCB's from leaking transformers caused 4 any adverse human health effects? 5 A* Again, it's a broad question. 1 don't know 6 how to answer that. There have been reports that PCB fluid 7 that had leaked from equipment had caused health effects. 8 0. And what health effects were reported? 9 A. Skin rashes, liver damage. The news media 10 reported things such as breast cancer - a litany of things 11 which were not necessarily clinically significant. 12 Q. During this period of time was Monsanto ever 13 sued relative to adverse human health effects resulting 14 from leaking transformers that were discharging PCB 15 dielectric fluid? 16 MR. BAUERi Objection. Lack of foundation 17 that the witness would know whether particular lawsuits 18 were for health effects related to transformer leaks. 19 But if you know, tell him. 20 A. I don't know specifically, no. 21 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Do you know whether, during 22 this period of time, Monsanto was ever sued regarding ad 23 verse health effects resulting from capacitors that leaked 24 PCB dielectric fluid? 25 MR. BAUER: Same objection. - 40 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050012 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I don't know specifically. 2 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Do you know whether, during 3 this period of time, Monsanto was ever sued for any adverse 4 health affect resulting from an exposure to any PCB 5 material manufactured by Monsanto? 6 A. Yes, there have been 7 Q. How frequently -- Roughly, how frequently does 8 Monsanto get sudden regarding adverse health effects from 9 exposure to any of its PCB's? 10 MR. BADER* objection. Irrelevant and outside 11 of the scope. 12 A. I couldn't answer that. I have no way of 13 knowing that. 14 0. (by Mr. Bradley) You don't know how frequent 15 ly. 16 MR. BAUER: Same objection, 17 A. No. 18 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Did Monsanto learn during 19 this period of time that greatest personal hygiene is of 20 paramount important for workers exposed to PCB1s? 21 A. What kind of personal hygiene? 22 Q. Greatest. G-r-e-a-t-e-s-t. Greatest personal 23 hygiene. 24 A. I guece I don't understand the question. 25 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time - 41 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050013 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 that careful personal hygiene is of paramount importance 2 for workers exposed to PCB * s? 3 MR. BAUERi Object to the form of the ques 4 tion . 5 A. Monsanto knew during this period of time that 6 personal hygiene was important, yes. 7 Q,, (by Mr * Bradley) Did Monsanto know during 8 this period of time that workers handling PCB's, or with 9 frequent exposure to its vapors, should undergo periodic 10 medical examinations? 11 MR. BAUERi Object to the form of the ques 12 tion. 13 MR. BRADLEYi What's wrong with the form? 14 MR. BAUER Well, I don't know what you mean 15 by the word, "should.* 16 MR. BRADLEYt Pine. 17 Go ahead and answer the question. 18 MR. BAUERs Medically advisable? A good prac 19 tice of workers? A good practice of employers? Good moral 20 responsibility of employers to employees? 21 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Do you recall the question? 22 Let me ask it again: Did Monsanto learn during this period 23 of time that workers handling PCB1s or with frequent 24 exposure to its vapors should undergo periodic medical 25 examinations? - 42 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050014 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Monsanto knew during this period of time that 2 workers handling PCB's, like any other industrial chemi 3 cals , should practice good hygiene and have annual periodic 4 medical checkups,, 5 Q, Did Monsanto acquire that information -- Let 6 me ask it this way: Had Monsanto already acquired that 7 information by March of 1976? 8 A Yes. 9 Q, Did Monsanto know during this period of time 10 that repeated exposures to PCB vapor may produce internal 11 bodily injury which may be disabling or could be fatal? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did Monsanto learnduring this period of time 14 that ingestion of one ounce of polychlorinated dibenzo- 15 furans would be enough to harm ten thousand people? 16 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques 17 tion . Vague use of the word "harm." 18 A. 1 guess 1 would have to put that into concen 19 tration and dosage. That is an awfully large quantity of f^ * 20 dibenzofurans. 21 Q, (by Mr. Bradley) During this period of time 22 did Monsanto learn that if an ounce of polychlorinated 23 dibenzofuran was divided into equal portions and given to 24 ten thousand people, that that would be enough to cause 25 harmful adverse human health effects in those ten thousand - 43 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050015 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 people? 2 MR. BADERi Object to the form of the ques 3 tion. Calls for speculation. 4 A. I guess in that form I don't know what the 5 dose would be. Monsanto did know that there were signifi 6 cant dose levels of polychlorinated dibenzofurans which 7 were repotted to cause human health effects 8 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 9 that preplacement periodic physical examinations should be 10 conducted by medical personnel on workers exposed to PCB's? 11 MR. BADERi Object to the form of the ques 12 tion . 13 A. As I stated previously, Monsanto knew during 14 this period of time that workers that manufactured chemi 15 cals including PCB's should have a routine medical monitor 16 ing program. 17 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Would that routine medical 18 monitoring program that you referred to include preplace 19 ment physical examinations? 20 , MR. BAUERi Object to the%orm of the ques 21 tion. 22 A. I*m not sure what you mean by the term "pre 23 placement ." 24 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Examination of a worker 25 before that worker was allowed to be exposed to PCB's. - 44 - CONCANHON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050016 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BAUERi Same objection. 2 A. 1 guess the answer is the same, that PCB's are 3 like any other industrial chemicals. Workers are subjected 4 to preemployment physicals and periodic medical monitoring. 5 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) During your work at Monsanto 6 did you know a gentleman by the name of Dr. Emmett Kelly? 7 A. Yes, 1 did 8 Q. Was Dr. Kelly anemployee of Monsanto during 9 any period of time that you worked there? 10 A. Yes, he was. 11 Q. During your work at Monsanto, did you ever 12 learn that Dr. Kelly had stated that furans have one of the 13 most extreme toxicities of any compound since the beginning 14 of chemistry? 15 A. No, I had not heard that. 16 Q. Do you agree with that statement? 17 A. I don't know if Iagree with it totally. I do 18 believe that polychlorinated dibenzofurans can probably be 19 toxic. I don't know what the relative toxicity is. I have 20 seen no data. ' 21 Q. During this period of time, did Monsanto know 22 that PCB9 s had entered the human food chain? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. During thisperiod of time did Monsanto know 2 5 that fish were detected with PCB1s at levels higher than -45- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050017 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 The Pood and Drug Administration limit for human consump 2 tion? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did Monsanto know during this period of time 5 that chlorinated naphthelenes had been identified as trace 6 constituents of commercial PCS mixtures? 7 A. Are we talking about the time frame from 1976 8 to '93? 9 0. March of 1976 to July 21, 1993 at 2 10 P. K., 10 central standard time. 11 A* During this time period Monsanto knew that 12 chlorinated naphthelenes had been reported as impurities 13 produced in the early 1930's time frame, or thereabouts. 14 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 15 that chlorinated naphthelenes are combustion by-products 16 formed during transformer fires? 17 A. Monsanto knew that chlorinated naphthelenes 18 were reported to be combustion products of fires involving 19 dielectric fluids, whether it was transformers or capaci 20 tors or what, I don't know, ' 21 0. Did Monsanto know during this period of time 22 that the manufacture of chlorinated naphthelenes was phased 23 out after World War I because they could rapidly destroy 24 the liver? 25 MR. BAUER t Object to the form. - 46 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050018 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Monsanto knew that chlorinated naphthelenes 2 could cause liver damage. I don*t know about the rapid 3 phase-out afterward Word War I 4 Q. (by Mr Bradley) Did Monsanto learn during 5 this period of time that chlorinated dibenzodioxins are 6 formed in transformer fires in transformers containing PCB 7 dielectric fluid? 8 A. Under certain conditions, yes. 9 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 10 that chlorinated dibenzodioxine are one of the most toxic 11 forms of chemicals ever manufactured? 12 A To certain species at certain doses, yes 13 Q. Would that include the species, homo sapiens? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 15 that ninety-nine percent of all Americans reportedly have 17 over five hundred parts per billion PCB in their adipose 18 tissue? 19 A. Five hundred parts per billion? 20 Q. Yes. ^ 21 A. I am not sure of the concentration units, but 22 Monsanto learned during this period of time that a large 23 portion of the U. S. population had it, yes 24 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 25 that over ten percent of the population had over one part - 47 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050019 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 per million PCB in their adipose tissue? 2 A. During a portion of that time that is true, 3 Monsanto also learned during this period of time that these 4 levels have dropped significantly since '81. 5 Q. And the lowest levels they ever dropped to and 6 been measured at is nine percent of the population contain 7 one part per million PCB's in their adipose tissue; is that 8 correct? 9 MR. BAUERt Object to the form. 10 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) All right. Well, let me re 11 ask the question#- then. Is the lowest percentage of humans 12 reported to have one part per million PCB in their adipose 13 tissue nine percent during this period of time? 14 A. There is a paper that discusses that that 15 comes out of the U.S. EPA*s National -- NBAT's Study # 16 National Human Adipose Tissue Study. There are trends that 17 are published periodically as the data comes out. It's 18 been declining since the eighties. 19 Q. Do you recall# though, whether the lowest per 20 centage reported is nine percent. ^ 21 MR. BAUER* Objection. Asked and answered. 22 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Go ahead and answer. 23 A, I guess we have discussed so many units that, 24 without having the paper in front of me# I can't correctly 25 state which of these we're talking about now. But there - 48 - CONCANNON JAEGER WATER PCB-00050020 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 are papers that are published periodically by the U. S. EPA 2 which detail these numbers. 3 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 4 that over one million pounds of PCB's which were produced 5 by Monsanto between 1929 and 1979 were released to the 6 environment and are still present out in the environment? 7 A. Monsanto is aware that PCB' have been 8 released to the environment I don't know what level of 9 PCB`e or what poundages are in the environment. I don't 10 think we have any data on that; but PCB's have been 11 released to the environment, yes. 12 Q. You have never seen any data that shows the 13 amount of PCB's that have been released to the environment 14 during that period of time? 15 A. I have seen several reports of what the data 16 is. In 1979 the EPA reported seven hundred and fifty 17 million pounds had been released to the environment. The 18 number keeps changing. Monsanto has seen information that 19 PCB's have been released to the environment, but I don't 20 know how to put a verification as to your number, the 21 accuracy of your number. 22 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 23 that PCB's had been found in human mothers* milk? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn - 49 CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050021 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 that PCBs had been found in human fetuses? 2 A. Petal tissue? I think that's probably true. 3 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 4 that PCB * s pass through the mother's placenta to the fetus 5 in humans? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 8 that PCB * s are likely to remain a feature of our planet for 9 centuries because they are slow to biodegrade? 10 MR. BAUERi Object to the form. How someone 11 can state what's going to -- 12 You can answer# if you are able. 13 A. I can't forecast the future. PCB's do biode 14 grade# some of them at perceptibly slow rates. 15 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Well, are you able to tell 16 us during this period of time whether Monsanto learned that 17 PCB'8 will be in our environment for at least another hun 18 dred years? 19 A. No. I don't think I can make that statement. 20 0. Okay. 'f 21 A. That's speculation. 22 Q. Well# Monsanto has employees, does it not# 23 that have determined rates of biodegradation of different 24 isomers and homologs of its Aroclor products? 25 A. Yes. And the biodegradation rate depends on -- 50 -- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050022 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 ambient conditions and whatever populations are present. 2 There are a lot of factors that have to be taken into 3 account. 4 Q. At least you're not familiar with any report 5 or opinion of anyone, for that natter# about whether PCB 'a 6 will be in our environment for the next hundred years? 7 A. I have seen no scientific report that says 8 PCB * s will be in the environment for any specific time 9 period, no. 10 G. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 11 that PCB's biomagnify in the human food chain? 12 A. Yes * 13 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 14 that PCB's biomagnify in human beings? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 17 that PCB*s biomagnifloation rates in the human species for 18 PCB's could be as high as two hundred thousand times? 19 MR. BAUERi Object to the form of the ques 20 tion. I don't know how you could learn about something 21 that could be. 22 But you can answer the question about whether 23 we learned that could have happened? 24 A. There are biomagnification factors that have 25 been reported. I don't know what the upper limits are. I CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050023 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 know they have been reported in the forty or fifty thousand 2 range. I don't know about two hundred thousand. 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Did Monsanto learn during 4 this period of time that changes in liver chemistry were 5 observed in humans exposed to PCB's? 6 A. Yes, 7 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time e that PCB8s can work synergistically with other compounds to 9 impair the human immune system? 10 A. I don't know how to answer that question. 11 MR. BAUER: Objection, Assumes a fact not in 12 evidence. 13 MR. BRADLEY: Okay. 14 A. Monsanto learned during this time that PCB's 15 can work synergistically with other chemicals and change 16 the effects on the chemicals on the species and on the 17 organ. 18 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) And did Monsanto learn 19 during this period of time that PCB's work synergistically fr * 20 with other compounds and impair the human immune system? 21 A. I guess I don't know of any scientific data 22 that is a statistically significant report that shows that, 23 Q. During this period of time did Monsanto learn 24 that any agency of the United States Government considered 25 and labeled PCB's as probable carcinogens? - 52 - CONCANNON 6 JAEGER WATER PCB-00050024 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Do you know whether Dr. Kelly, Monsanto' s 3 former medical director, ever calculated that one ounce of 4 furans would be enough to poison ten thousand people? 5 A. No, I do not. 6 Q. Did Monsanto learn during this period of time 7 that incineration of PCB materials in open-dump burning was 8 a source of PCB's in the environment? 9 A. Yes. 10 MR. BRADLEY: Let1s take a break. 11 (Thereupon, a short recess was taken.) 12 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) All right. Dr. Craddock, 13 you are not a medical doctor? 14 A. No. 15 Q. You are not a toxicologist? 16 A. NO, 17 Q. You are not an epidemiologist? 18 A. No. 19 Q. You are not a gentleman who has gone to a 20 university and taken any courses in toxicology? 21 A. I think I'm a gentleman. I have taken 22 advanced continuing education courses in toxicology at 23 Jefferson Medical University in Philadelphia, but I have 24 not taken formal toxicologycourses. 25 Q. You have nottaken any formal epidemiological - 53 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050025 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 courses? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Nor any formal studies in medicine? 4 A. Noi sir. 5 Q. I am going to show you what is marked for 6 identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2816. Is that a 7 document you have seen before? 8 A, No. I don't think I have seen that. 9 Q. I am going to show you 2920. Is that a docu 10 ment you have seen before? 11 A. Yes. I have, 12 Q. What is that document? 13 A. This is a chapter out of an internal document 14 that Monsanto publishes and sends to its plants called the 15 Workplace Exposure Control Guideline." 16 Q. Is theintended reader of thatdocument a 17 Monsanto employee? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. It's not intended for reading by Monsanto 20 customers? 21 A. It's not developed for that purpose, no. 22 Q. Are you able to tell the date that the docu 23 ment was prepared? 24 A. Yes. This one was prepared in November of 25 1986. - 54 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050026 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. Do you know who the author is? 2 A Yes. Albert E Peterson 3 Q And what is the subject matter discussed or 4 contained in the exhibit? 5 A The title is *PCB Handling Guideline,* and 6 it's to provide -- Well# that's it 7 Q. Okay Is that exhibit a true and accurate 8 copy of the "PCB Handling Guideline prepared in November 9 of '86 by Albert Peterson? 10 A. It appears to be 11 Q. Is the information that is contain in that 12 exhibit -- Let me ask it this way -- 13 MR. BAUERi Well, hold on a second. 14 A It's not a complete copy I gueas it's page 15 one of fifty-five, and then it stopped somewhere else, 16 G. (by Mr. Bradley) Is this a true and accurate 17 copy of the first forty-three pages of the fifty-five-page 18 document that was prepared by Mr. Peterson? 19 A I have not examined very page of this docu- 20 roent. Looking at the title page# as 1 'said earlier# it 21 looks like the document that we're discussing I don't 22 know if all of the pages -- It's got every other page 23 It's a two-sided document# and somehow they have gotten 24 every other one for the first bunch. It's really messed 25 up. 55 * CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050027 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 MR. BRADLEYi I note that we copied it in the 2 same order that it was provided to us, according to the 3 numbering system that Monsanto uses. 4 MR. BAUER* Then the bad photocopy job hap 5 pened before we produced it, obviously 6 MR. BRADLEY* Right. But that doesn't stop it 7 from being a bad photo, so I would request that Monsanto 8 provide us with a complete copy of that document. 9 MR. BAUER* We 'll endeavor to find out if we 10 can do that. I will endeavor to find out if we can do 11 that. 12 MR. BRADLEY* Okay. 13 I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 14 2919, which unfortunately doesn't have a complete date on 15 it, and I am hoping that you will recall the date, if you 16 have seen the document before. 17 Is Plaintiff's Exhibit 2919 a document you 18 have seen before today? 19 A. I have Been this type of document, whether 20 it'8 this particular one, and I don't have the date, but 21 most probably 1 have seen this document, yes. 22 0. Is it a true and accurate copy of a document 23 you saw before today that was entitled, "Monsanto Back 24 grounder*? 25 MR. BAUER * Object to the form of the ques- -- 56 *" CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050028 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tlon. He testified that he saw some kind of documents of 2 that type but he couldn't recall if it was this one, so I 3 don't know how he could answer that question. 4 But if you can, go ahead* 5 A* I don't know if this is the exact true and 6 accurate copy* I presume it is* I see nothing wrong with 7 this. 8 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Are you able from your re 9 view of the document to tell us what date it was authored? 10 A. Well, September 19 -- the year was left off. 11 It was after '87 because it has 1987 references in it* 12 Q. So it was minimally in the last six years? 13 A* This -- I could speculate and say this may 14 have been about 19 -- 15 Q. Before you speculate, Dr* Craddock, the law 16 doesn't allow you to speculate, but the law does allow you 17 to make a best estimate* Are you able to do that? 18 A* I would say sometime after 1987, based on what 19 is there, then. 20 Q. Did Monsanto routinely produce a document 21 entitled "Monsanto Backgrounder, PCB Backgrounder"? 22 A* Yes* 23 Q. Over what period of time did Monsanto produce 24 that type of document? 25 A. The PCB Backgrounder was produced from about - 57 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050029 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 1980 up until the present. 2 Q. And was the purpose of that document to relate 3 new information that became available regarding PCB's? 4 A. The purpose of this document was to provide a 5 historical background on Monsanto's involvement with PCB's. 6 This document starts from when PCB'e were first manufac 7 tured in 1929 and goes up to the date of the document. 8 Q. And did the document contain information that 9 was available to the author when the author wrote the docu 10 ment? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did the author of that document prepare the 13 document as part of Monsanto's regular business activities? 14 MR. BAUERt object to the form. Lacks founda 15 tion. 16 A. I would assume so. 17 Q. Monsanto regularly prepared those types of 18 documents as part of its regular business activities 19 involving PCB'Sf is that not true? 20 A. Yes A similar type document# yes. 21 Q. Did Monsanto maintain a copy of that document 22 in its files as part of its regularly-conducted business? 23 A* Monsanto maintained a copy of the current 24 draft or edition of the document in its files. Older ones 25 were discarded. - 58 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050030 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. So whichever document was current was main 2 feained in Monsanto's files as part of its regularly3 conducted business? 4 A. Yes. 5 G. I am now going to she you Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 2918 and ask you if you have seen that document before. 7 A. Yes, 1 have seen that document 8 Q What is the document? 9 A. The document is a letter by me to a Mr. S.H. 10 Brand at Monsanto. 11 Q. What is the date of it? 12 A. January 25th, 1984. 13 0 * Is Exhibit 2918 a true and accurate copy of 14 the January 25th, 1984 letter you wrote? 15 A. It appears to be. 16 0. Did you write that letter at or about the time 17 you obtained the information that is referred to in the IB exhibit? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q* Did you write that letter ^as part of 21 Monsanto's regularly-conducted business activities? 22 A. As part of my function in carrying out 23 Monsanto's business, yes. 24 Q. And during January of 1984 did Monsanto gene 25 rate documents of that type as part of its regularly- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050031 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 conducted business activity? 2 A. Yes. This was in answer to an inquiry, and we 3 answered inquiries 4 Q. Was a copy of that document maintained within 5 Monsanto's files as part of its regularly-conducted busi 6 ness? 7 A, Monsanto has a records retention policy on 8 current correspondence and so forth, and it would probably 9 be maintained along that line. Some PCB documents are kept 10 longer, but yes, it would be maintained for the time period 11 that is specified. 12 Q. I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 2917 13 and ask you to review that document. 14 A. Yes, I have seen that document. 15 Q. What is it? 16 A. it's a note that was written to me during an 17 EPA meeting and workshop that the industry consensus group 10 attended with EPA managers and staff at Washington's Water 19 side Mall to work on development of the new PCB cleanup 20 policy. '* ` 21 Q. Who authored the note? 22 A. Dr, Ellen Silvergeld. 23 Q. is that a true and accurate copy of the note 24 authored to you by Dr. Silvergeld? 25 MR. BAUER: Object to the form of the ques- - 60 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050032 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 tion. Are you talking about the top part or the whole 2 page? 3 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Does the exhibit contain 4 both a note to you and a note from you? 5 A. I don't know who the bottom note is by. That 6 is not my writing. 7 Q. And is the bottom half of that exhibit not the 8 note that was given to you by Dr. Silvergeld? 9 A. The top portion of the note was given to me by 10 Dr. silvergeld. Let me read the bottom half. 11 I don't know who -- 12 Q. That is the form that we got it in. Would you 13 take this pen, please, and mark on this exhibit the point 14 at which the note to you from Dr. Silvergeld ends. 15 A. The point at which it ends? 16 Q. Yes. And you have done that, and you have 17 written "END, and drawn an arrow? 18 A Correct. 19 Q. Is the portion of that exhibit that was the 20 note from Dr. Silvergeld to you a true ^and accurate copy of 21 the note provided to you by Dr. Silvergeld? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q Did Monsanto maintain a copy of that note in 24 its files as part of its regularly-conducted business? 25 A. Yes. This came out of my files. - 61 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050033 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 0. Dogs the information in the top portion of 2 that exhibit related **- is it information that was related 3 at or about the time that the note was written? 4 A* Yes. 5 Q, And was -- I'm going to show you -- 6 A. Are we through with this? 7 Q. Do you know the date of the exhibit? 8 A. Not off the top of my head, no. 9 Q. Do you know whether -- As I understand it, 10 this note was written to you during an EPA meeting at an 11 industry consensus group? 12 A, This was a meeting of the industry consensus 13 group with EPA staff members, convened by Lee Thomas, the 14 administrator of the EPA, and it was prior to the new spill 15 cleanup rule. We were developing the final standards in 16 1987, so this note was probably written within six months 17 of that meeting where we developed the final standards for 18 the regulations. 19 0. 20 of 1987? So it was probably written within six months ^ 21 A. whatever time it took for the rule to go in 22 and come out 23 Q, Did Monsanto learn during the period of time 24 we have been discussing, referring again to March, '76 to 25 July 21, 1993, whether dibenzofurans in Aroclors manu- - 62 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050034 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 factured by it were as high as ten parts per million? 2 A. Did we learn from *76 to -- 3 Q. Between March of 676 and today's date, that 4 the highest values seen for polychlorinated dibenzofurans 5 in Aroclore manufactured by Monsanto was ten parts per 6 million. 7 A. The highest number that I have seen was the 8 number published in the National Academy of Science Report, 9 and it was less than that. The report said that it was in 10 the order of two, the highest number reported. 11 That was a hypothetical number that Dr. 12 Silvergeid was using. We were calculating to see what a 13 suitable cleanup level would be. And she assumed that -- 14 She just picked a number and assumed, if it were as high as 15 that number, it would be inconsequential, because, if PCB'e 16 were fifty parts per million and polychlorinated dibenzo- 17 furans were as high as ten, then the concentration left in 18 the residuals of the leaky electrical piece of apparatus 19 would be less than a half a part per trillion, which was 20 significantly less than the regulatory ^cutoff level, and 21 that it would be toxicologlcally insignificant. 22 0. Do you know whether, by the reference to 23 dibenzofurans in this exhibit, Dr. Silvergeld -- 24 A. That's her statement. She said she saw that 25 level. I didn't see that level. 63 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050035 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. I understand that, but by the term "dibenzo- 2 furans," did you understand that to be chlorinated dibenzo- 3 furans? 4 A. PCDP`8, yes That was what the discussion was 5 about. 6 Q. I am now going to she you what has been marked 7 for identification as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2916 and ask you 8 if you have seen that document before? 9 A. I don't know if I have or not. 10 Q. All right, I am now going to show you Plain- 11 tiff's Exhibit 2915 and ask if you have seen that document 12 before. 13 A. 1 don't think I have seen this document be- 14 f ore, no. 15 Q. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 16 3066 and ask if you have seen that document before. 17 A. I don't think I ever saw this. I wish I had. 18 0 Do you know whether Dr. Throdahl is still 19 living? 20 A. I believe he is still alive. 21 o. Is he retired? 22 A Yes. 23 Q. Do you know if be resides in the St. Louis 24 area? 25 A & He used to live in the St. Louis area. I - 64 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050036 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 believe he does, yes. 2 Q. Do you recall the name Dr. Louis Fernandez? 3 A, Yes. 4 Q. What position if any did Dr, Fernandez have at 5 Monsanto? 6 A At one point in time he was as high as chair 7 man of Monsanto, .president, CEO, and that may have been 8 about that time frame. 9 Q. On Exhibit 3066 do you see the section that 10 says reference, colon, LF/MCT 12/13/79? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Does that mean anything to you? 13 A. It's the initials of the two gentlemen the 14 memo is about, and the date, and I don't know what else it 15 means. 16 Q. Who is the memo about, the two gentlemen? 17 A. Well, the memo is to Dr. Louis Fernandez, L. 18 F., and it's from M,C, Throdahl, and those are the ini 19 tials . 20 Q. * What was EPS at Monsanto in 1979? 21 A. EPS was the Environmental Policy Staff. That 22 was the beginning of the environmental organization that I 23 mentioned when I became involved. The Environmental Policy 24 Staff was corporate, and they provided the general direc 25 tion of each operating company who had people at lower - 65 - CON CAN NON S> JAEGER WATER PCB-00050037 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 levels who implemented the corporate policy of the organi 2 zation 3 Q. Were you part of the corporation portion of 4 EPS? 5 A At what point in time? *79? 6 0 * Yes* 7 A. No. in '79 I was MIC. 8 Q. in '80 were you part of the corporate function 9 Of EPS? 10 A. In June of 1980 I assumed part of the cor 11 porate portion of EPS and assumed the job similar to what 12 is described there. 13 Q. And in -- Were there other corporate members 14 of EPS that included members of Monsanto's board of direc 15 tors? 16 A. The Environmental Policy Staff was primarily a 17 working group that didn't include the board of directors. 18 Mr. Throdahl was the vice-president of environmental 19 affairs, and he was also simultaneously a board member,, /* ' 20 an internal board member, an EPS board member. Other 21 members of the EPS were lower-level working staff, if 22 that's clear. 23 Q. When you began your job in June of 1980 with 24 EPS -- First of all, am I correct that you began a job in 25 June of '80 with EPS? - 66 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050038 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. I guess I might have misspoke I began my job 2 in 1980 as the corporate focal point for PCB, and that 3 remained in the industrial chemical company for a period of 4 time, and at some point in time that moved over to the cor 5 porate staff department, which is EPS# but my initial 6 assignment was to keep up with what was done within the 7 operating company The environmental staff in the operat 8 ing company# as an ad hoc member of the BPS# it was not 9 corporate* It was more or less a bookkeeping type of 10 thing, 11 Q. During the period of time for which you're 12 giving testimony here today -- 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. -- did Monsantotake theposition that# rela 15 tive to health or environmental effects, alleged or real, 16 for PCB's# that Monsanto1e involvement with those issues 17 and effects would not cease until there were no further 18 problems? 19 A Yes 20 Q. During the period oftime "for which you have 21 been tendered as a witness for this deposition# did 22 Monsanto take the position that PCB's were a learning model 23 for determining the most effective corporate action in the 24 event that other products or by-products are at some future 25 time deleted from the product line? - 67 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050039 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A, Yes. 2 Q. Relative to PCB's, did by-products include 3 polychlorinated dibenzofurans? 4 A. l assume so 5 Q. Do you know whether any form of dioxin# in 6 cluding polychlorinated dibenzodioxin# has been found in 7 any PCB manufactured by Monsanto? 8 A There has not 9 Q, Do you know whether any form of dioxin# 10 including chlorinated dibenzodioxin, has been found in any 11 PCB blend manufactured by Monsanto? 12 MR. BAUERi Object to the form. By "PCB 13 blend#* do you mean to include dielectric fluids that con 14 tain compounds other than PCB * e? 15 MR, BRADLEYj I mean PCB blends. 16 MR. BAUERt Objection. Vague. 17 MR. BRADLEY! I mean PCB dielectric fluid 18 blends. 19 MR. BAUERt PCB's blended with PCB's? 20 MR. BRADLEYi Different witnesses have 21 requested that I refer to the different Aroclor products in 22 different ways. 23 MR. BAUERi Correct. 24 MR. BRADLEY? I was during one deposition 25 asking a question about PCB * s manufactured by Monsanto and - 68 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050040 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 was told that a better phrase would be PCB's blended by 2 Monsanto. 3 MR. BAUERs Be said dielectric fluids blended, 4 not PCB*b blended. 5 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Well, whatever he said. 6 Did Monsanto ever, during the period of time 7 that you have been designated as a witness for today's 8 deposition, learn that any form of dioxin, including 9 chlorinated dibenzodioxin, were found in any PCB dielectric 10 fluid blends manufactured by Monsanto? 11 A. As manufactured and sold by Monsanto? Is that 12 what you mean? 13 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Yes. 14 A. The answer is no. Dioxins have not been found 15 in any PCB'b or PCB blende used as dielectrics sold by 16 Monsanto, to my knowledge. 17 Q. In 1980 when you became the focal point for 18 responding to PCB issues at Monsanto, was there a potential 19 unresolved issue involving contaminated hot spots, example, f^ ' 20 at the Hudson River in Waukegan Harbor?' 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Was there a potential unresolved issueregard 23 ing poly -- possible chlorinated dibenzofurans in aged or 24 incinerated PCB`s? 25 MR. BAUERi Can I hear that back? - 69 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050041 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 (Thereupon, the reporter propounded the previous 2 question.) 3 MR. BAUERi object to the form. Vague about 4 what a "possible unresolved" --* Vague as to what a poten 5 tial unresolved issue about something possible means. 6 But you can answer if you are able. 7 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I meant when you became the 8 focal point. 9 A. There was an unresolved issue# yes. 10 Q. What was that potential unresolved issue? 11 A. There was a question as to whether PCDP's were 12 generated during incineration of PCB's in an EPA-approved 13 type incinerator. The question of -- EPA was looking for 14 incinerators with .999999# or bo, so the measurement of 15 this was very -- That is one potential problem. 16 Q. When you began your work as the focal point 17 for PCB's at Monsanto was there a potential unresolved 18 issue regarding reduction of body levels of PCB's by 19 absorbent drugs? 20 A. Yes. ' 21 Q, What was that unresolved issue? 22 A. There had been published literature to the 23 effect that you could treat persons who had high body bur 24 dens of PCB's in their adipose tissue or blood serum with 25 certain compounds which were designated drugs# not necesfln ^ Q CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050042 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 sarily drugs in the classical sense, and that they would 2 remove these PCE'b from the human body 3 Q. When you began your work as the focal point of 4 Monsanto, was there a potential unresolved issue regarding 5 PCB's being possible carcinogens? 6 A fes 7 Q. Was that issue ever resolved for Monsanto? 8 A it's still ongoing 9 Q. Does Monsanto take the position that PCB's are 10 possible carcinogens? 11 A. Monsanto takes the position that PCB's lower 12 than sixty percent chlorination are not carcinogenic in 13 animal studies, and Monsanto takes the position that PCB's, 14 per se, have not been shown to be human carcinogens. 15 Q Does Monsanto take the position that pcb*s 16 with chlorination of sixty percent or greater are possible 17 carcinogens? 18 A. Monsanto takes the position that PCB1s with 19 sixty percent chlorine or greater could be possible car- fa f 20 cinogens in certain animal species at certain doses, 21 rodents, for example. 22 Q. But not in humans 23 A. Correct. Not in humans. 24 Q. Does Monsanto take the position that PCB's in 25 the food chain including mothers' milk is a resolved issue? - 71 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050043 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. NO. 2 Q. In 1980 when you were the focal point for 3 Monsanto on issues involving PCB's, was there a potential 4 unresolved issue of PCB'e in the food chain including 5 mothers* milk? 6 A Yes. 7 Q. What was thatpotential unresolved issue? 8 A. The potential unresolved issue was, is there 9 sufficient PCB in the food change to provide a dose level 10 sufficient that it will cause human health effects. 11 Q. And does Monsantotake theposition that there 12 is a level of PCB's in the food chain including mothers' 13 milk which would cause adverse health effects? 14 MR. BAUERi Object to the form. What do you 15 mean, "would?" 16 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) Let me rephrase it, then. 17 Does Monsanto take the position that there is a dose level 18 of PCB's in the food chain including mothers' milk which 19 results in adverse human health effects? 20 MR. BAUERi I still object to the form. I 21 understand dose level*, I understand food chain, but you put 22 the two together and 1 think the question is vague. 23 But you can answer 24 Q. (by Mr. Bradley) I'll try one more time. 25 Does Monsanto take the position that there is any level of CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050044 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 PCB's in the food chain including human mothers' milk, which 2 could cause adverse health effects? 3 A, Monsanto takes the position that the dose 4 level is critical in determining human health effects, not 5 absolute concentration So you would have to know the 6 dose, which is the consumption per unit of tine per kilo 7 gram of human body weight. 8 0, is there a dose level in which PCB's in the 9 food chain including human mothers' milk could cause 10 adverse human health effects? 11 MR. BAUER r Object to the form of the ques 12 tion. He just explained -- Are you asking whether we know 13 that there is a dose level in some particular species? 14 That if someone -- 1 mean# a concentration, 1 think, is the 15 problem. Never mind. I am not going to argue. Asked and 16 answered. Object to the form, and asked and answered. 17 You can answer the question. 18 A. I am not sure I can answer the question. I 19 guess I'm not sure what the question is now. 20 Monsanto has not taken the position that we 21 know that there is a level of PCB's that causes an adverse 22 human health affect. 23 Q, (by Mr * Bradley) in 1980 when you became the 2 4 focal point for Monsanto's PCB questions and problems and 25 issues, were you made aware of the known claims and law -- 73 -- CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050045 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 suits involving PCB6s that were brought then against 2 Monsanto? 3 A. No. Not necessarily. 4 Q. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 2914 and askyou to review that document. 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. Is that a document that you have seen before? 8 A. 1 may have seen this before, but I am not 9 sure. 10 Q. Are you able to tell us whether it's a true 11 and accurate copy of a document you have seen before? 12 A. No, I am not. 13 Q. I am going to show you plaintiff's Exhibit 14 1232 and ask you to review that document. 15 MR. BAUERi Mr. Bradley, you just put that 16 document on the floor. 17 MR. BRADLEYs You want this on the record? 18 MR. BAUERi Yes. 19 You told us that documents above twenty-six ' 20 hundred are documents we have not seen 'before, and it was 21 just shown to the witness and used in bis deposition, and I 22 have understood before, when you're putting documents on 23 the floor, that they're not going into the court room. 24 MR. BRADLEY: Mr. Bauer, if this is your way 25 of requesting the document so that you can have a copy of - 74 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050046 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 it, I would be happy to make certain that one is provided 2 to you. Does that answer your inquiry? 3 MR6 BAUERi I have two requests, I guess i 4 One, any document shown to the witness, if it's not a docu 5 ment that has already been provided to everybody, it should 6 be given to the court reporter; and I also request that I 7 get a copy before the end of the day 8 MR BRADLEYi Since we're not in my office, I 9 can't guarantee you'll get a copy before the end of the 10 day, but -- 11 MR. BAUERj If you will give it to me, I will 12 copy it. 13 MR. BRADLEY? That's fine All you have to do 14 is ask. 15 I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit 16 1232 and ask you to review that document for me 17 Mr * Bauer, I am now handing you all of the 18 exhibits that I have that are above Plaintiff's Exhibit 19 2600 bo that you can make copies 20 MR. BAUERi I will get that started right now 21 while he is looking at that. 22 Q. (by Mr Bradley) You have in front of you 23 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1220. Is that a document entitled, 24 "Polychlorinated Biphenyls," that you authored? 25 A. Yes. - 75 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050047 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q. When did you do that? 2 A* 1981. 3 Q. Is that a true and accurate copy of the docu 4 ment you authored in 1981? 5 A. It appears to be. 6 0 Does that exhibit contain information that was 7 made available to you at or about the time you authored the 8 exhibit? 9 A. yes. 10 Q. Did you author that document as part of your 11 regular employee responsibilities at Monsanto? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Was it Monsanto's regular practice as part of 14 its business activity in 1981 to generate documents of that 15 sort? 16 A. This document was in response to an inquiry 17 from the Dayton Chamber of Commerce to participate in a 18 workshop they had, and responses like that were honored, I 19 would say, as a public service. 20 Q. Did Monsanto maintain a cbpy of that exhibit 21 as part of its regularly-conducted business? 22 A. According to the record retention policies, 23 yes. 24 Q. And I am now showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 25 1232. Is that a document you have seen before? - 76 CONCANNON JAEGER WATER PCB-00050048 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What is it? 3 A. It's a copy of a Monsanto Material Safety Data 4 Sheet for generic PCB's. 5 Q. Is there a date on the document? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q What is the date? 8 A. This document is dated October 15th, 1985. 9 Q Is that document the same as the generic MSD5 10 that you indicated that you prepared in 1980? 11 A. It's similar to it. It's a six-page document; 12 the 1980 document was four pages. It was revised and up- 13 dated. 14 0. Did you do that? 15 A, Yes. 16 Q. Is that a true and accurate copy of the MSDS 17 for PCB's in October of '85? 18 A. It appears to be. 19 0. Does that document contain information that / ( 20 was current as of the date that it was 'written? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Was it based upon information that was made 23 available to its author on or about the date it was 24 written? 25 A. Yes. - 77 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050049 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 Q Was it generated and authored as part of 2 Monsanto's regular business activities? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. was a copy maintained in Monsanto's files as 5 part of Monsanto's regularly-conducted business? 6 A* Yes, 7 Q. I am now going to show you Plaintiff's Exhibit e 1224 and ask you if you have seen that document before 9 today? 10 A. Yes, n Q. What is it? 12 A, It's a memo from David ForsythZoll. At this 13 time he was Assistant General Counsel for the Chemical 14 Manufacturers Association, to CMA members, all caps. 15 Q. Is that a document that Monsanto maintained in 16 its records as part of its regularly-conducted business? 17 A, Yes. According to its recordsretention 18 policy, yes. 19 Q. I am now handing youPlaintiff's Exhibit 2846, 20 Have you seen that document before today? 21 A. No. 22 MR, BRADLEY* Okay. I have nothing further, 23 Do you have questions of the witness? 24 MR, MORGAN: No, I have no questions, 25 MR. BAUERt I have no questions. This wit - 78 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050050 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 ness's portion of the 30(B)(6) deposition is therefore 2 concluded * 3 4 5 JOHN H. CRADDOCK 6 Subscribed and sworn to before roe this __________ day 7 of . A. D./ 19936 8 m COMMISSION EXPIRES ___________ . 9 10 Notary Public, within and 11 for the State of Missouri 12 13 14 15 16 17 10 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 79 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050051 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 STATE OP MISSOURI ) ) ss 2 COUNTY OF ST. LOUIS ) 3 I, Mark D. Concannon, a Notary Public within and for 4 the State of Missouri, duly commissioned,, qualified and 5 authorized to administer oaths and to take and certify to 6 depositions, do hereby certify that pursuant to Notice in 7 the civil cause now pending and undetermined in the 8 District Court of the United States, within and for the 9 District of Nevada, entitled NEVADA POWER COMPANY, 10 Plaintiff, -vs- MONSANTO COMPANY, et al., Defendants, to be 11 used in the trial of said cause in said Court, I was 12 attended at the law offices of Messrs. Husch, Eppenberger, 13 Donohue, Cornfeld & Jenkins, 100 N. Broadway, Ste. 1300, in 14 the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri, by Ralph A, 15 Bradley, attorney for the Plaintiff? by Scott R. Bauer, 16 attorney for the Defendant Monsanto; by Robert P, Morgan, 17 In-House Counsel for the Defendant Westinghouse; and by 18 JOHN H. CRADDOCK, the witness, in said office on July 21, 19 1993. 20 The said witness, JOHN H. CRADDOCK, being of sound 21 mind and being by me first carefully examined and duly 22 cautioned and sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth 23 and nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, thereupon 24 testified as is shown in the foregoing tran- script, said 25 testimony being by me reported in shorthand and caused to - 80 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050052 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 be transcribed into typewriting, and that the foregoing 2 pages correctly set out the testimony of the aforementioned 3 witness, JOHN H. CRADDOCK, together with the questions 4 propounded by counsel and the remarks and objections of 5 counsel thereto, and is in all respects a full, true and 6 complete transcript of the questions propounded to and the 7 answers given by said witness; and that said testimony, so 8 transcribed, wag subscribed to by the witness on the______ _ 9 day of .__ _______ . A.D., 1993 , 10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not of counsel nor 11 attorney for any of the parties to said suit, nor related, 12 ncr interested in any of the parties or their attorneys 13 WITNESS MY HAND and Notarial Seal, given this 14 day of , A D., 1993, at St Louis, Missouri. 15 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES MARCH 21, 1994. 16 17 18 MARK D. CONCANNON, 19 Notary, Public, within and for tfye State of Missouri 20 21 22 23 24 25 - 81 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050053 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 2 Concannon and Jaeger General Court Reporters 3 705 Olive Street, Ste. 604 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 4 August 10, 1993 5 6 7 Mr. Scott R. Bauer Kirkland & Ellis 8 1999 Broadway Denver, Colorado 80202 9 Rei Nevada Power Vs. Monsanto 10 Dear Mr. Bauer t 11 This letter, incorporated as the last page of Mr. 12 Craddock's deposition, taken on July 20 and 21, 1993, will serve as notice to you that Mr. Craddock1s testimony is now 13 ready for his reading and signing of same 14 Enclosed, please find your copy of the deposition, along with the original signature page, (pg.79), and errata 15 sheets. Please have Mr. Craddock read his deposition at his earliest possible convenience, making whatever changes 16 he feels necessary on the errata sheets, along with his reason for making same. Have him sign the original 17 signature page and eratta sheets before any notary, and return the original signature page and eratta sheets to me 18 at the above address so that I may file the original transcript in Court and notify opposing counsel of the 19 changes. j^ ` 20 Thank you for your cooperation in this regard. 21 Sincerely, 22 23 MARK D. CONCANNON 24 MDCtmk end s. 25 - 82 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050054 COMPUTER AIDED TRANSCRIPTION 1 JOHN H. CRADDOCK 2 3 ~ DEPOSITION CORRECTION SHEET - 4 In Ret NEVADA POWER Vb. MONSANTO 5 Upon reading his deposition transcript and before subscrib ing thereto, the deponent indicated the followings 6 7 Page Line should read s 8 Reason assigned for changes 9 Page Line should reads 10 Reason assigned for changes 11 Page Line should read s 12 Reason assigned for changes 13 Page Line should reads 14 Reason assigned for changes 15 Page Line should readi 16 Reason assigned for changes . 17 Page Line should reads 18 Reason assigned for changes 19 Page Line should reads 20 Reason assigned for changes fa ' ' 21 Page Line should read* 22 Reason assigned for changes 23 Page Line should read? 24 25 JOHN H. CRADDOCK - 83 - CONCANNON & JAEGER WATER PCB-00050055