Document bgmYgRYypw7wYymbEz7a6rRo

1 IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE STATE OF TEXAS 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF BRAZORIA 3 23rd JUDICIAL DISTRICT 4 5 CHARLES R. LATHAM, et al., 6 Plaintiffs, 7 vs. 8 GARLOCK, INC., et al., 9 Defendants. 10 ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) No. 15137*BH01 11 12 13 14 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JOHN L. MYERS 15 16 17 Date: Thursday, November 29, 2001 18 Time: 9:59 A.M. 19 20 Location: Monterey Marriott 350 Calle Principal 21 Monterey, California 22 23 24 25 HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 DUPLICATE FILE COPY UCAREF00023213 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 For the Plaintiffs: 4 LANIER/ PARKER & SULLIVAN, P.C. BY: W- MARK LANIER, 5 Attorney at Law 1331 Lamar, Suite 1550 6 Houston, TX 77010 (713) 659-5200 7 8 9 For Defendant Union Carbide Corporation and the Deponent: 10 POWERS & FROST, LLP 11 BY: JAMES H. POWERS, Attorney at Law 12 909 Fannin, Suite 2600 Houston, TX 77010-1009 13 (713) 767-1555 and 14 FOLEY & LARDNER BY: TREVOR J. WILL, 15 - Attorney at Law Firstar Center 16 777 East Wisconsin Avenue Milwaukee, WI 53202 17 (414) 297-5536 18 19 For Defendant Kelly-Moore Paint Company: 20 BROWN McCARROLL, LLP 21 BY: SCOTT SHEPHERD, Attorney at Law 22 111 Congress Avenue Suite 1400 23 Austin, TX 78701-4043 (512) 479-9705 24 25 HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 2 UCAREF00023214 John L. Mysrs {11-29-01) 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 The Videographer: 4 BILL KRONE Deja View Video 5 417 S. El Dorado Street San Mateo, CA 94402 6 (650) 343-8899 7 8 Reported By: 9 JANET T. OREB, CSR No. 5198 10 Hartsell & Olivieri 621-A Water Street 11 Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (831) 423-5911 12 (831) 423-7189 (Fax) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 3 UCAREF00023215 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 INDEX 2 3 EXAMINATIONS: 4 By Mr. Lanier 5 Further Further 6 7 8 By Mr. Powers Further 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PAGE: 7 70 75 65 74 HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 4 UGAREF00023216 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Monterey, California November 29, 2001 2 PROCEEDINGS 3 MR. LANIER: I understand under California 4 rules the court reporter is going to maintain the 5 original until the reading and signing period is passed. 6 I don't have any problem with that, Jim, so long as you 7 and I have an agreement that an unsigned copy can be 8 used in lieu of the original at the trial of the case 9 MR. POWERS: If the original is not -- 10 MR. LANIER: Available. 11 MR. POWERS: well, my only qualification, I 12 want to make sure we understand, if Mr. Myers has 13 reviewed and signed it and returned it to the court 14 reporter by the date of trial, then I want the reviewed 15 and signed and possibly corrected version to be used as 16 opposed to the uncorrected version. 17 MR. LANIER: I should not be using an 18 uncorrected version if a corrected version is available 19 MR. POWERS: Correct. 20 MR. LANIER: And I don't have any problem with 21 that. 22 I would ask in addition to sending the 23 corrections to the court reporter that you send them to 24 me so that I get them as quickly as possible. 25 MR. POWERS: Okay. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 5 John L. Myers (11-29-01) MR. LANIER: Thanks. (Off the record.) THE VTDEOGRAPHER: This marks the beginning of tape A. My name is Bill Krone. I am with Deja View Video at 417 South El Dorado Street in San Mateo, California. This deposition is taking place at 350 Calle Principal in Monterey, California, where today's date is November the 29th, 2001, and the current time is 9:59 A.M. The caption is Charles R. Latham, et al. versus Union Carbide, et al., and the deponent's name i3 John Myers. This deposition is being taken on behalf of the plaintiffs in the matter. Will counsel please identify themselves verbally, stating who they are and whom they represent. MR. LANIER: This is Mark Lanier. I'll be asking the beginning questions at least, and I represent the plaintiffs. MR. POWERS: Jim Powers. I represent Union Carbide. MR. WILL: Trevor Will, and I'm here also for Union Carbide and Mr. Myers. MR. SHEPHERD: Scott Shepherd on behalf of HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 6 UCAREF00023218 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Kelly-Moore. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Madam court reporter, can 3 you please swear in the witness. 4 5 JOHN L. MYERS, 6 being duly sworn by the Certified Shorthand Reporter 7 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 8 the truth, testified as follows: 9 10 EXAMINATION BY MR. LANIER 11 Q. Your name is John Myers, am I right? 12 A. Right. 13 Q. And I understand you live out in California? 14 A. Yes. IS Q. And we've come out here to take your deposition 16 today. We're videotaping it for the jury. Right? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. You know you're welcome to come to Texas, but I 19 can't make you come. Do you understand that? But this 20 testimony will have the same force and effect under the 21 law as if you actually come and testify live. All 22 right? 23 A. All right. 24 Q. My intention is to play this video if you 25 choose not to come to trial, which is certainly your HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (B31) 423-5911 !E John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 t. Okay? 2 A. Yes. X 3 Q- I understand you're retired at this point? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. When did you retire from Union Carbide? 6 A. At the end of 1993. 7 MR. POWERS: Excuse me. Just so we don't have a an unclear record, ask your question again if you don't 9 mind, Mark. 10 And Mr. Myers, listen carefully to what he n asked you. 12 BY MR. LANIER: 13 Q. Yeah. I may have assumed something. Let's do 14 it this way. Why don't you tell me when you worked for 15 Union Carbide? 16 A. From 1951 till 1985. 17 Q. And when Union Carbide sold the Calidria Mine 18 in 1985, did you go with the Calidria Mine? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Who did you go work for then? 21 A. KCAC, Incorporated. 22 Q. Is that who bought the mine? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And when did you retire from KCAC, 25 Incorporated? HARTSBLL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 8 UCAREF00023220 John L. Myers (11-29-01) A. December 31st, 1993. Q. During the 34 years that you worked for Union Carbide, I want you to give me an idea of what kind of work you did. A. Well, in 1951 I started in the Oakridge, Tennessee, atomic energy facility which was operated by Union Carbide. Q. Did you know Newell Bolton there? A. No. Q. This is the K-25 plant? A. Yes. Q. Go ahead. A. And in 1952 I transferred to Paducah, Kentucky, to a similar operation operated by Union Carbide for AEC. Q. ABC. Atomic Energy Commission. A. And in 1966 I transferred to the metals division of Union Carbide in Niagara Falls, New York. In 1967 I transferred to the King City asbestos mine and mill. In 1970 -- as technical superintendent at that time. In 1970 I transferred back to Niagara Falls as marketing manager for the Calidria asbestos business. In 1981 I transferred back to King City as product and production manager for the Calidria asbestos business. And in 1985 the business was sold, and then I retired in HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 9 UGAREF00023221 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 1993. 2 Q. Tell me what you did in 1967 as a technical 3 supervisor at the King City mine. 4 A. Technical superintendent -5 Q. I'm sorry. 6 A. -- is the correct title. 7 My main responsibility was to start up a 8 production operation which was part of the plant but was 9 a separate operation for the production of a product 10 called RG-244. And I was also then supervisor of the 11 laboratory and other functions that would be of a 12 technical nature to operate the plant. 13 Q. You did that for a year. No. You did that for 14 three years? 15 A. Three years, yes. 16 Q. Then you went back to Niagara Falls where you 17 worked as a marketing manager for the Calidria? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And tell me in that job -- which X guess you 20 held for almost 11 years? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. -- what you did. 23 A. I was responsible for sales activities, 24 generate sales for Calidria asbestos, preparing price 25 schedules, technical literature. Training the salesmen, HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 10 John I*. Myers (11-29-01) we -- in dealing with the hazards of asbestos and providing them -- them with information regarding the attributes of our product and the potential hazards of asbestos for customers. That's basically it. Regular marketing -- advertising, we did pretty much our own advertising. Q. What is your educational background? A. Bachelor's of Science degree in Chemical Engineering from Purdue University. Q. Boilermaker? A. Boilermaker, yep. Q. And when did you get your Bachelor of Science degree? A. In January of 1951. Q. What particular qualifications did you have to become a marketing manager? A. Really no -- no formal education in marketing. Just, it was something that it seemed I was adept at doing it, and I was chosen for the -- when I was in the plant from 1967 to '70, I did introductory sales efforts on the RG-244 product since I had helped develop it and run the pilot plant in Niagara Palls and then the production in King City. I was well aware of its products applications, and so I did a lot of sales efforts in part of the three years I was out there. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (031) 423-5911 11 UCAREF00023223 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Q. RG-244, tell me what that is, please. A. It's a very highly refined asbestos that is then treated to put a silicate coating on the fibers so that it was able to perform in applications in which Cabosil was used. Cabosil is a pyrogenic silica that is used to provide thixotropy and polyester and epoxy resins and other resin systems. Q. When you were the marketing manager, you were not just a marketing manager for RG-244 but you were the marketing manager for all of the Calidria asbestos products? A. Yes. Q. And you brought to that job not a marketing degree; right? A. Right. Q. You brought a chemical engineering degree? A. Right. Q. You --we know that there are such things as marketing degrees and people who have specialties in marketing itself; right? A. Yes. Q. And those folks may know how to make pretty pictures or how to make pretty slogans or how to put together -- I apologize -- how to put together -- let me start that out because I'll probably excise that part of HARTSBLL & OLIVIERI (B31) 423-5911 12 UCAREF00023224 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 this deposition. 2 Those marketing people know how to put together 3 pretty pictures, know how to put together nice slogans. 4 things that appeal to folks for purchasing purposes. 5 That's not really your area of training; fair to say? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. I assume that somewhere in the depths of the 8 Union Carbide employment ranks there were folks who 9 could do that kind of stuff and do it well? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. But the person that, at least in 1970, that 12 Union Carbide chose to make their marketing manager was 13 someone who had chemical knowledge and awareness of the 14 technical attributes of the asbestos? fair? 15 A. Yes. IS Q. You had not only awareness of the chemical 17 nature of it, but evidently you had awareness of safety 18 aspects of asbestos as well? 19 A. I gained that through the years, yes. 20 Q. Is it fair to say that by 1970 there was a 21 marketing concern of asbestos that said we've got to 22 make sure folks know that this product is safe and can 23 be used safely? 24 A. Yes. Although most of our customers were 25 asbestos users already and would have been aware of the HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 13 UCAREF00023225 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 hazards or the problems with asbestos. 2 Q. So you assume? You didn't personally deal with 3 all those customers, did you? 4 A. No. 5 Q. For example, there's one customer you had named 6 Kelly-Moore. Are you familiar with Kelly-Moore? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q- Kelly-Moore leaned on Union Carbide for that 9 knowledge and Johns Manville, I believe, did you know 10 that? 11 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 12 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. 13 (Off the record.) 14 BY MR. LANIER: 15 Q- Union Carbide had an extensive medical 16 department, hygiene department, safety department back 17 then; true? 18 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 19 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't know how -- what 20 you mean by extensive. They had -- had those 21 departments. 22 BY MR. LANIER: 23 Q. And they didn't have like one guy in the whole 24 in charge of safety, medical hygiene? 25 A. No. 0o 1 3 HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 14 UGAREF00023226 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Q. Or many people worked there? 2 A. I don't know how many. 3 Q. And Union Carbide belonged to a number of 4 groups that studied and dealt with issues of asbestos 5 and asbestos safety; true? 6 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: I -- I don't know how many groups 8 or what groups. Our asbestos business was very small in 9 the Union Carbide hierarchy of businesses. 10 BY MR. LANIER: 11 Q. So you didn't know that Union Carbide was a 12 member oo:f the Asbestos Information Association? 13 A. Oh, yes, I knew that. 14 Q. Did you not know that Union Carbide was a 15 founding member of the Industrial Hygiene Foundation? 16 A. No, I didn't know that. 17 Q-. You didn't know of Union Carbide's affiliation 18 with the Mallon Institute and sponsors of research 19 there? 20 A. I know they had -- we had asbestos work done 21 there,, yyies. 22 Q. Did you know of Union Carbide's affiliation 23 with the Canadian Asbestos Information Center? 24 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 25 THE WITNESS: No. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 15 UCAREF00023227 John L. Myers (11-29-01) BY MR. LANIER: Q. Did you know about Union Carbide's asbestos safety work done over in the United Kingdom over in Britain? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Were you even familiar with Union Carbide U.K., Limited? A. Yes. I've heard of that. Q. Tell me what your knowledge is of that company. A. Very limited. Just that it was one of the subsidiaries of Union Carbide. Q. Did it surprise you that Union Carbide chose as their marketing manager someone who wasn't trained in marketing, but someone who was well-versed in being able to talk about and how to use asbestos without getting hurt? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I don't remember being surprised at being chosen as marketing manager, no. BY MR. LANIER: Q. You certainly in that role started writing some booklets and some information and seeing that word got out about how to, quote, safely use asbestos, close HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 16 UCAREF00023228 John L. Myers (11-29-01) quote; correct? A. We tried to keep our customers informed, yes. Q. Well, when you say you tried to keep them informed, do you believe that Union Carbide tried to tell them the whole truth? A. Yes. Q. So you think Union Carbide in the '60s and '70s was imparting to its clients, its customers all that Union Carbide knew about the hazards of asbestos and how to use it safely if possible? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: From the late '70s, yeah. I mean late '60s. Yeah, I do. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Did you ever read the paper prepared by Dr. Sayers in 1967 from Union Carbide U.K., Limited entitled "Asbestos as a Health Hazard in the United Kingdom1'? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I read it many years ago, yes. BY MR. LANIER: Q. When do you think you read it? A. I -- I don't remember. Q. It was written in 1967, if that helps you. A. I don't remember when I read it. Q. Did you read it as part of your job, or did you HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 17 UCAREF00023229 John L. Myers (11-29-01) read it after you quit working for Union Carbide? A. I read it before I left Union Carbide, yes. Q. And do you think the information that Dr. Sayers had was properly passed on to the consumers of Union Carbide's asbestos? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I don't know that the information -- I don't know what the information was, I don't remember the contents of the paper. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Let me take a couple steps back, and we'll get back to the paper in a little bit. Why don't you tell me what -- when you first became aware of the fact that asbestos was something that could kill you? MR. POWERS: object to the form. THE WITNESS: I missed -- what was the question? BY MR. LANIER: Q. When did you, John Myers, first become aware of the fact that asbestos could kill someone? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I don't remember. I just gained the knowledge over -- over several years probably. BY MR. LANIER: HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 18 UCAREF00023230 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Q. Can you give me a range? A. Probably in the late '60s. Q. And it's well-known that asbestos -- strike that. There are a number of different ways asbestos can hurt the human body, you know that as well as I do; right? A. Yes. Q. I'd like to break down a couple of those and see when you think your knowledge may have come about. First there's this scarring of the lungs called asbestosis, you're familiar with that? A. Yes. Q. When did you first become aware of the fact that breathing asbestos dust can cause this scarring of the lungs, asbestosis? A. See, I don't remember a year or -- I'd say late 60s is the best I can do. Q. Fair enough. There is recognition that asbestos can cause a cancer of the lung itself. This is not the mesothelioma. This is just plain lung cancer. When did you become aware of that, the same time period? A. I think generally the same time period, yes. Q. The third disease I'd ask you about is the HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 19 UCAREF00023231 John D. Myers (11-29-01) 1 mesothelioma cancer, the cancer of the lining of the 2 lungs or of the peritoneal area. When did you first 3 become aware of the fact that asbestos could cause that 4 cancer? 5 A. Well, first I would, in my opinion, anyway, you 6 can't include all asbestos as causing mesothelioma. I 7 don't believe that all asbestos does. And again X don't 8 -- I don't remember. Probably the early '70s. 9 Q. When did you -- what kind of asbestos do you 10 think won't cause it? 11 A. Chrysotile. Pure chrysotile. 12 Q. And when did you come up with that opinion? 13 A. Through the years. Reading -14 Q. I'm sorry. 15 A. -- papers and reading about what workers that 16 were, had mesothelioma what kind of asbestos they -- to 17 what kinds they were exposed. 18 Q. This is a video and the jury will hear you talk 19 about chrysotile, we frequently call it chrysotile 20 asbestos. I just want to make sure since people can 21 hear this as well as read it, we're talking about the 22 same kind of asbestos, aren't we? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. You'll excuse me if I call it chrysotile. It 25 may just be the Texas in me. But at least you and X HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 20 UCAREF00023232 John L. Myers (11-29-01) know that we're talking about the same thing? A. Yes. Q. And when you say you became aware or formed this opinion that chrysotile does not cause mesothelioma over the years reading studies, are you talking about reading the studies that have been put out by the chrysotile miners up in Canada? A. No. No. MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: No. No. Any studies by Selikof or anyone else. I don't know of any study which show that pure chrysotile exposure caused, caused mesothelioma. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Well, do you know -- so you just decided - well, let's take a step back. First of all, are you arguing that or do you believe that the Calidria Mine produced only pure chrysotile asbestos? A. Yes. Q. It never had anything else there? A. No. No, never. Q. Do you knovTyour -- that that viewpoint is not shared by everybody? A. I didn't know that. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 21 r UCAREF00023233 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Q. Okay. So you still think that someone can breathe all of the onion Carbide asbestos they want to, they won't get mesothelioma? A. That's my personal opinion, yes. Q. You wouldn't want to do it yourself, or have any of your family do it, would you? A. Well, I don't plan on breathing pure asbestos. I don't have any occasion to do that. Q. You got grandkids, don't you? A. Pardon? Q. You have grandkids? A. What do you mean? Q. Do you have grandchildren? A. Oh, yes. Q. You don't want them breathing it either, do you? A. It all depends on the situation, on the amount that they breathe and the length of time that they breathe it. Q. So you wouldn't mind them breathing asbestos, pure chrysotile Union Carbide asbestos, if they only breathed it every now and then? * MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I wouldn't see any problem with that, no. We haven't had any problem with any of our HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 22 UCAREF00023234 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 workers who are exposed every day to that. 2 BY MR. LANIER: 3 Q. You're not aware of that? 4 A. Aware of what? 5 Q. Are you saying that there has never been a 6 Union Carbide worker that has filed an asbestos claim? 7 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 8 THE WITNESS: I'm saying that there has never 9 been a Calidria asbestos employee who has filed a claim. 10 BY MR. LANIER: 11 Q-. I mean Union Carbide's had a lot of workers 12 file assbbiestos claims because of breathing asbestos at 13 Union Ca:rbide; right? 14 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. IS THE WITNESS: I -- I'm not a -- I'm not privy 16 to that :information. 17 BY MR. LANIER: 18 QQ-. Okay. So you don't know one way or the other. 19 A. I'm talking about workers at the Calidria 20 asbestos mine and mill have been exposed and have never 21 -- we've never had any claims of any asbestos related 22 disease. 23 Q. That you're aware of? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. I mean you haven't followed up with HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 23 UCAREF00023235 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 everybody who has ever worked there and has left, have 2 you? 3 A. No. 4 Q. That's not even your area, is it? 5 A. What do you mean "my area"? 6 Q- Well, I mean you haven't even been working for 7 Union Carbide for the last 16 years, have you? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. You understand mesothelioma has what is called 10 a latency period, don't you? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And a latency period it can take 30 or 40 years 13 for that cancer to develop, can't it? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q- So folks who are working and mining your 16 asbestos in 1970 when you're the manager may not know 17 until 2000 or 2010 if there going to get mesothelioma; 18 right? 19 A. Right. 20 Q- And you haven't had anything to do with it 21 since 1985; correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 24 BY MR. LANIER: 25 Q. Okay. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 24 UCAREF00023236 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 A. I retired in 1993. Sorry. 2 Q. Well, not with Onion Carbide, though. You left 3 Union Carbide in 185. 4 A. Right. 5 Q. Or even 1993 when you left Calidria that still 6 doesn't have all that latency period built in to see 7 whether or not these people are going to die, does it? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. All right. Let's go back to the knowledge you 10 have. You said you became aware in the late '60s that 11 asbestos is bad -- can be bad for you. You became aware 12 in the early '70s of the mesothelioma. Tell me about 13 TLV. What does that mean to you? 14 A. Threshold limit value. 15 Q. Back in the '60s and into the early '70s what 16 was the threshold limit value for breathing asbestos? 17 MR. POWERS: Excuse me. Could we have the 18 question again. 19 BY MR. LANIER: 20 Q. Yeah. 21 Back in the early '60s -- or back in the '60s 22 going into the early '70s, do you remember what the 23 threshold limit value was for breathing asbestos? 24 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 25 THE WITNESS: No. My memory -- I can't HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 25 UCAREF00023237 John X.. Myers (11-29-01) remember for sure, no. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Did you believe -- let me ask it this way. id you have an idea of what a safe breathing level of asbestos was back in the '60s or early '70s? A. I believe it was 5 -Q. 5 million parts per cubic foot. 5 MPPCF? A. Yeah, I can't even remember the term. That sounds right, yes. Q. I think that's what the document show it was. Show that at least the Union Carbide's position on it was. That's why I was guessing that. MR. POWERS: I'll object to that side bar for whatever purpose it might serve. MR. LANIER: Yeah, I couldn't play it, I just wanted him to know that this wasn't like trick question time. I save trick questions for the end. BY MR. LANIER: Q. I want to talk about duty. What was Union Carbide's duty when it came to its marketing and selling of its asbestos product? Are you familiar with the subject I want to cover? A. No. Q. Okay. Let me flush it out a little bit. One of the questions I have is what was Union Carbide's HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 26 UCAREF00023238 John L. Myers (11-29-01) responsibility to the folks that bought its asbestos for use in products and ultimately to the people that then used those products? What was Union Carbide's responsibility toward those folks when it came to telling them about asbestos and its safety? That's the subject. Okay. Now, would you agree with me? MR. POWERS: Excuse me. Let me object to all of the preamble before "Would you agree with me." I appreciate the elaboration, but X think the question should begin with "Would you agree with me." BY MR. LANIER: Q. Would you agree with me that Union Carbide had a responsibility to the companies like Kelly-Moore that were buying the asbestos to inform those companies of the hazards that Union Carbide knew went along with the asbestos? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Again I think it would depend on the customer. And whether you say Union Carbide had the responsibility, X think it would have to come down to the Calidria asbestos group. Yes, we had --we made it a practice to inform our customers of whatever we were aware of, whatever we knew. BY MR. LANIER: HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 27 UCAREF00023239 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Q. And you all ought to, shouldn't you? 2 A. And it depends again on the customer. If the 3 customer is a long-term user of asbestos, they may not 4 need as much information as somebody that's relatively 5 new to using asbestos. 6 Q. Yeah. And I'm not talking about the Johns 7 Manville if you decide to sell some asbestos to Johns 8 Manville. I'm talking about a company that -- like 9 Kelly-Moore that buys a drywall business in 1963 and has 10 never had any prior experience with asbestos and doesn't 11 have a hygiene department, they make paint, a small 12 private-owned company that now makes asbestos drywall 13 products. Your company is selling the asbestos to them. 14 Your company Onion Carbide is doing their hygiene work 15 on the asbestos. Your company Union Carbide is testing 16 their products and their plans to see if the asbestos i3 17 used safely. In a situation like that wouldn't you 18 agree with me Union Carbide has a responsibility to tell 19 that company about dangers with asbestos, at least the 20 dangers that Union Carbide knows about? 21 MR. POWERS: Wait. I'm going to object to the 22 form of that question because it's argumentative, and 23 not allow the witness to answer the way it's phrased. 24 THE WITNESS: I would agree - 25 MR. POWERS: Don't answer the question. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 28 UCAREF00023240 John L. Myers (11-29-01) THE WITNESS: Sorry. ay MR. LANIER: Q. You would agree with me in a situation where you've got a company that doesn't know about asbestos beyond what they rely on the sellers of the asbestos to tell them, that the sellers ought to be forthright and honest and tell them the whole truth about the safety of the product; right? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. You can answer it though. THE WITNESS: The, again the -- I don't know when Kelly-Moore started using asbestos. BY MR. LANIER: Q. 1963. A. And I don't know when they started using Calidria asbestos. Q. Mid '60s. A. But we would --it would be the Calidria asbestos responsibility, salesmen, our technical people in our group to inform our customers like that, yes, of any knowledge that we have. Q. And it wouldn't be right for Union Carbide to hide knowledge of the dangers just to sell more of the product; right? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 29 UCAREF00023241 John L. Myers (11-29-01) THE WITNESS: I wouldn't think that would be true -- right for any company, no. BY MR. LANIER: Q. By the same token the duty to inform the folks buying the asbestos is important because those folks are going to be breathing it; right? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: If there is any dust generated, yes. BY MR. LANIER: Q. And that importance goes down the line because that1s also the company that is going to make a product that some end-user somewhere is going to be using and he might be breathing the dust, the end-user; right? A. I don't know. It would depend on the form of the product. Q. If the product is one that's form that has got dust and asbestos is in the dust and it's going to be breathed, it's important that Union Carbide give its knowledge because you can foresee there's going to be an end-user that is going to need to be made aware of this; right? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Repeat the question. BY MR. LANIER: HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 30 UCAREF00023242 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Q. Okay. A. Repeat the question. Q. Union Carbide knew that it was not selling its asbestos to end-users; true? A. True. Q. Union Carbide knew it was selling its asbestos to companies to put into products and those products would then get sold to end-users; true? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. LANIER: Q. The duty that you and I have been talking about it was important for Union Carbide to pass Union Carbide*s knowledge of asbestos to the companies that made the products because those companies would need to pass that information down to the fellows that are ultimately using it; right? A. Yes. MR. POWERS: Object to the form. Sorry. BY MR. LANIER: Q. And most normal everyday people that were using these products back in the '60s and '70s didn't really understand the hazards of asbestos, would you agree with me? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 31 UCAREF00023243 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 MR. POWERS: Well, object to the form. 2 THE WITNESS: I would have no knowledge of 3 their --of their knowledge. 4 BY MR. LANIER: 5 Q. Okay. You at least -- you told me that you 6 didn't feel like maybe Union Carbide had to give 7 asbestos knowledge to companies that were already aware B of asbestos hazards, sophisticated companies? 9 A. No. I said that they would not need the same 10 degree of knowledge if they already were familiar with 11 asbestos. 12 Q. But you didn't have any knowledge to think that 13 the ultimate guy that is drywalling his home had any 14 knowledge about the hazards of asbestos; you don't know 15 anything about that, do you? IS A. No. 17 Q. That's why it's important to make sure that the 18 information you've got goes to the folks making that 19 drywall product so it can go to the ultimate fellow that 20 is spackling his wall; right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. If I find a company that knows their product is 23 hazardous and can kill people, and the company fails to 24 tell folks who are unaware of that fact, the company's 25 doing something wrong, isn't it? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 32 UCAREF00023244 (' John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 2 Don't answer it. 3 MR. LANIER: What is form of the objection? 4 MR. POWERS: It1s argumentative, and that1s why 5 I'm not going to let him answer it. 6 MR. LANIER: What part of it is argumentative? 7 MR. POWERS: The entirety of it. 8 MR. LANIER: He's an adverse witness. 9 MR. POWERS: It's not that it's a leading 10 question, Mark. It's an argumentative question. I 11 would make that objection to the judge, and I think he 12 would ask you to rephrase the question. 13 MR. LANIER: There are some jurisdictions and 14 some judges who argue -- who say that an argumentative 15 question to an adverse witness is not a form objection. 16 MR. POWERS: And I don't think Judge Harden is 17 one of them. 18 MR. LANIER: Okay.What portion of it do you 19 consider argumentative and how? 20 MR. POWERS: Could you read it back for us. 21 (Record read.) 22 MR. POWERS: Specifically the -- if I find a 23 company that can kill -- that has a product that can 24 kill people. 25 MR. LANIER: Well, why is that argumentative? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 33 UCAREF00023245 John L. Myers (11-29-01) MR. POWERS: Well, I think it is. That's my objection. If you don't - MR. LANIER: Well, how? How am I supposed to say that without -- I mean is it because kill is a bad word? MR. POWERS: Well, that's one. MR. LANIER: I didn't use murder. MR. POWERS: That's an argumentative word. MR. LANIER: Kill -MR. POWERS: I'm not going to let him answer it the way you phrased it. BY MR. LANIER: Q. All right. I'll try and ask it real vanilla. MR. POWERS: Thank you. BY MR. LANIER: Q. If the company has a product and the company knows that that product can cause people to die if it's ingested in a certain way, and the company doesn't tell the folks that are going to be ingesting it that the product can cause people to die, the company is aware of the fact that the folks who are ingesting it have no clue it can cause them to die, that company is doing something wrong, isn't it? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Well, you used the wrong word HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 34 UGAREF00023246 John L. Myers (11-29-01) there. Ingestion is not a problem with asbestos. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Inhalation. Let me ask that same question with inhalation. Okay. If a company has asbestos and knows the asbestos can cause folks to die, and the company sells that product to people who are unaware that the asbestos can cause them to die, and the company chooses not to share this private knowledge that the asbestos can cause people to die, the company is doing something wrong, isn't it? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: That company should do its best to inform its customers of the hazards of the product that they're selling, yes. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Did you know in the 1960s that Union Carbide knew that TLV 5 was not a safe TLV? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. LANIER: Q. If Union Carbide in fact knew that in the 1960s Union Carbide ought to be telling people, shouldn't they? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 35 UCAREF00023247 John L. Myers (11-29-01) THE WITNESS: Well, as I said, I don't know that they didn't or that thev didn't believe that it was safe. BY MR. LANIER: Q. I'm going to show you Section 4.4 of Dr. Sayers Union Carbide report on asbestos as a health hazard in 1967 and ask you to look at it with me. It deals with mesothelioma. And under this section where it says occurrence of disease, it says mesothelioma is the most disturbing of the three diseases attributable to asbestos for how many reasons? A. Two. MR. POWERS: Wait. Wait. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. MR. POWERS: I didn't realize you were finished with your question. I object to the form of the question. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Firstly -- and help me make sure I'm reading this right -- in contrast to bronchial carcinoma, it can occur in people with minimal fibrosis, in other words, only after a brief exposure which may be as little as three months. Did I read that right? A. Yes. Q. And look at this next statement. Some HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 36 UCAREF00023248 John L. Myers (11-29-01) authorities even believe a single brief exposure might 2 be sufficient. Did 1 read that right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. You didn't have that kind of information in the 5 mid '60s yourself, did you? 6 A. Not that X recall. 7 Q. By the same token if we look at the moral 8 issues discussed by Dr. Sayers, Dr. Sayers writes there 9 seems little doubt that toxic effects of our Coalinga 10 product are still largely unknown. The Coalinga 11 product, that's Union Carbide1s pure chrysotile 12 asbestos, isn't it? 13 A. I can only assume that. I don't know what Mr. 14 Sayers knew about Coalinga. 15 Q. He says there is a general reference 16 chrysolite - 17 A. Inference. 18 Q. I'm sorry. Thank you. 19 -- inference chrysolite is more liable to 20 produce mesothelioma. Exoneration of chrysotile has not 21 been made, however. Did X read that correctly? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. That discussion with Dr. Taylor of the 24 Department of Social Medicine in Queens College Dundee two days ago revealed concern over asbestosis is still HARTSEXiL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 37 UCAREF00023249 John L. Myers (11-29-01) increasing and that chrysotile is definitely implicated along with the other types of asbestos. Did I read that right? A. Yes. Q. He continues, it therefore seems that on the basis of present evidence we are not entitled under any circumstances to state that our material is not a health hazard. Did I read that right? A. Yes. Q. Did you know that your folks at Union Carbide during this same time period were telling Kelly-Moore and other people that the Calidria asbestos was not a health hazard? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. BY MR. LANIER: Q. What is more, if it's believed that a potential customer would use our material dangerously and he's unaware of the toxicity question, it must surely be our duty to caution him and point out means whereby he can hold the asbestos air flow concentration to a minimum. Did I read that correctly? A. Yes. Q. Do you agree with that? A. Yes, I think I would agree with that. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 38 UCAREF00023250 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Q. That's certainly a moral obligation as well as 2 a legal one; right? 3 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 4 MR. LANIER: I can't ask that question. He's S right. It's his first objection he's been right on all 6 day. I object to ray side bar. 7 MR. POWERS: Sustained. 8 MR. LANIER: Thank you. 9 BY MR. LANIER: 10 Q. I'd like to now direct your attention to what 11 Dr. Sayers wrote about the threshold limit value. This 12 is 1967, sir. It's understood that the maximum dust 13 level of 5 million particles per cubic foot was -- and I 14 left out the parentheses here -- was proposed by an 15 engineer in 1938 as an interim guide. This figure was 16 an arbitrary choice and had no experimental foundation. 17 Did I read that right? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you know that when you were telling people 20 that that 5 million particles was safe? 21 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 22 THE WITNESS: I don't know that I told people 23 that 5 million particles was safe. That's what the OSHA 24 came up with in their first draft as far as I remember. 25 BY MR. LANIER: HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (B31) 423-5911 39 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Q. Sir, you all were telling folks -- your company 2 was telling folks that 5 million particles per cubic 3 foot was safe. Even after Dr. Sayers said this is just 4 some arbitrary choice, an interim guide proposed by some 5 engineer in the '30s. 6 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 7 BY MR. LANIER: 8 Q. Did you know that? 9 MR. POWERS: object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: Did I know what? 11 BY MR. LANIER: 12 Q. Did you know your company after Dr. Sayers had 13 written this and let everybody who read it know in your 14 company the truth, did you know your company was still 15 telling people 5 million particles was safe? 16 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 17 Don1t answer that. 18 BY MR. LANIER: 19 Q. Did you know your company after 1967, in spite 20 of this knowledge, was still telling people 5 million 21 particles was safe? 22 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know that Mr. Sayers has 24 the background or the scientific evidence to make a 25 statement like that. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 40 UCAREF00023252 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 BY MR. LANIER: 2 Q. Do you understand that's Dr. Sayers and that he 3 works for your company? Or the company you work for, 4 Union Carbide? 5 A. Yes. 6 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 7 BY MR. LANIER: 8 Q. Do you understand he took thi3 and sent it not 9 only to Union Carbide, but to the Canadian Asbestos 10 Information Center? Did you know that? 11 A. No. 12 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 13 BY MR. LANIER: 14 Q. Did you know that this paper was read by people 15 including Dr. Demehl. Do you know Dr. Demehl? 16 A. I've heard the name, yes. 17 Q. Have you read his depositions? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Dr. Demehl gave a deposition in 1989 where Dr. 20 Demehl testified about Union Carbide's knowledge of 21 this paper. Have you been made aware of that testimony 22 in any way? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Have you read, for example. Bill Harford's 25 letter about Dr. Demehl's deposition dated March 22, HARTSELL * OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 41 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1989 where he talked about Dr. Demehl giving testimony in this case? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: No, I haven't read that. MR. LANIER: I will let your lawyer know that the deposition of Dr. Demehl that's referenced here is one of the documents we've not yet been produced in this litigation that we think we're entitled to. MR. POWERS: Well, number one, if you don't have it yet. I'll get it to you. MR. LANIER: Thanks. MR. POWERS: Number two, I know that Dr. Egilman has it. MR. LANIER: Good. The '89 one? MR. POWERS: Yes. Your expert witness Dr. Egilman just so people who are reading this later don't know that. MR. LANIER: What is hi3 first name? MR. POWERS: David. MR. LANIER: Is he the guy on the East Coast? BY MR. LANIER: Q. Have you seen any of Dr. Demehl's letters and memos pertaining to what Dr. Sayers has -- says here? A. Not that I recall. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 42 UCAREF00023254 John L. Myers (11-29-01) MR. LANIER: I'm going to wait until the sirens pass because o the video. MR. POWERS: Do you mind if I take 30 seconds. One of my children called me. MR. LANIER: Absolutely. THE VIDEO OPERATOR: We're going off the record at 10:44 A.M. (Recess.) ` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record at 10:50 A.M. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Sir, as we continue to look at this threshold limit value issue, you will see a reference to Dr. Taylor in his report of August -- I mean of 1964 saying the maximum allowable concentration of 5 million is not now acceptable. Industry should aim at 1 million particles and accept this figure with reservations until our knowledge in this field is extended. Did I read that right? A. Yes. Q. That knowledge that Union Carbide had in 1967 of Dr. Taylor saying 5 million is not acceptable, industry ought to shoot for 1 and do that with reservation, was that knowledge being passed on to your customers? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 43 UCAREF00023255 John L. Myers (11-29-01) MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I ha-^e no idea. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Well, it should have been, shouldn't it? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Not necessarily. This is one person's opinion. I don't know that he's qualified to or what his source is for saying that. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Well, sir, it was someone who was viewed authoritative enough by Dr. Sayers to put it into a report that was circulated throughout the higher levels of Union Carbide. That tells you something, doesn't it? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Not necessarily. BY MR. LANIER: Q. I mean, you don't see him quoting from the National Enquirer in there, do you? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: 'No. BY MR. LANIER: Q. And you don't see any memos or letters saying, hey, we got Dr. Sayers' report and it's got a bunch of garbage in it, that that guy ought to be fired for writing. You don't see any of that anywhere, do you? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 44 UCAREF00023256 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 2 3 that. THE WITNESS: I haven't seen anything like 4 BY MR. LANIER: 5 Q. In fact, what I do see is a letter from the 6 associate medical director, Mr. Dernehl, that -- or at 7 leaBt copied to Mr. Dernehl, a letter from the Union 8 Carbide associate medical director dated June of 1967 to 9 a Dr. Hall. Do you see that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Dr. Hall is with Union Carbide Europa; right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And if you look he says. Dear Tom, I've 14 reviewed the report, asbestos as a -- can you read that 15 -- health -- it's whatever Sayers' report is. Asbestos 16 as a health hazard in the United Kingdom prepared by Dr. 17 Sayers, and in general, I find it's reasonably accurate. 18 Did I read that right? 19 A. Yes. 20 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 21 BY MR. LANIER: 22 Q. So being written from Union Carbide Corporation 23 off Park Avenue in New York by the associate medical 24 director and sent to the Union Carbide Europa man over 25 in Geneva, Switzerland, Dr. Hall, we find Dr. Sayers' HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 45 UCAREF00023257 John L. Myers (11-29-01) paper being referenced as being reasonably accurate, don't we? ' MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. LANIER: Q. So now that we know it's reasonably accurate, don't you figure this knowledge that industry ought to aim at 1 million particles ought to be passed on to the folks using this product? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I don't know that it wasn't. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Okay. A. I have no knowledge of -- and so. Q. And so that's not the question. The question wasn't -- is not was it passed on. The question is it should have been passed on. Whether it was or was not, we'll discuss later. MR. POWERS: Object to the form. BY MR. LANIER: Q. It should have been passed on, shouldn't it? A. Again I'm not sure that one person's opinion is what you would base TLVs on. Q. Sir, it wasn't just one person's opinion. It's something that not only Dr. Sayers saw reasonably fit to HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 46 UCAREF00023258 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 write up, it's something the Union Carbide Corporation 2 found reasonably accurate in New York City and something 3 that they were writing to their Dr. Hall in Union 4 Carbide Europe and Switzerland. We have more than 5 person here, don't we? 6 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. Two. 8 BY MR. LANIER: 9 Q. Well, at this point -- well, three if you count 10 Dr. Sayers for including the quotation. Dr. Taylor who 11 originally said it, and this fellow with Union Carbide 12 who i3 the associate medical director. Don't you figure 13 at some point if all these people seem to know this 14 within Union Carbide you all ought to be telling the 15 people buying your product? 16 MR. POWERS: Object -17 THE WITNESS: Again I don't know that it wasn't 18 told. 19 BY MR. LANIER: 20 Q. Okay. We'll figure that out later. It should 21 have been told. At least you and I can agree to that; 22 right? 23 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 24 THE WITNESS: Again I would say not 25 necessarily. I mean the TLVs were established after -- HARTSELL &. OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 47 UCAREF00023259 John L. Myers (11-29-01) by OSHA were established after lots of discussion and hearings, and that's basically what --as far as I can remember, what we depended on for what we would tell our customers, and give them copies of. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Sir, did you understand in 19S7 there wasn't even an OSHA? A. Right. Q. Okay. So in 1967 when you all had this knowledge and chose not to pass it on, there wasn't an OSHA at that time, was there? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. Don't answer the question the way it's phrased. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Sir, do you understand in 1967 when you all had this knowledge there wasn't an OSHA? A. Yes. Q. So using OSHA as an excuse for not passing on the knowledge doesn't work, does it? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I'm telling you what we used in our information provided to customers. BY MR. LANIER: Q. And that's my point. I think in 1967 you should have told customers what you all knew internally HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 48 UCAREF00023260 John L. Myers (11-29-01) about this 5 million not being accurate. Do you agree or disagree? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: X don't necessarily agree because I don't know that it's established on good scientific evidence. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Well, sir, look at page 2 of this associate medical director's letter. Because he here gets into specifically what Dr. Sayers said about the 5 million particles. He says, I maintain that value as still correct in terms of preventing the disease asbestosis. There is no evidence of asbestosis among people who have worked. Do you see that? Now, drop down here, though, and look. It is -- what is that word? A. "Probable." Q. Probable that S million particles per cubic foot will not be acceptable for the prevention of mesothelioma. Did I read that right? A. Yes. Q. That's the disease that the plaintiffs in this case either have died or are dying from. Did you know that? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 49 UCAREF00023261 John L. Myers (11-29-01) THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Did you know that your company was telling the Kelly-Moores of the world that that TLV was a safe level in 1967? MR. POWERS: object to the form. THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Did you know that your company was telling them it was a safe level for mesothelioma? A. No. Q. If your company was in fact telling the Kelly-Moores of the world that 5 MPPCF was a safe level in 1967 for mesothelioma, your company was doing something wrong, wasn't it? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I still don't agree that -- that the threshold levels are usually established by years of scientific evidence, and I don't know whether this is based on that or not. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Sir - A. I don't know where Dr. Sayers got his information, or Dr. Taylor, what studies he -- he did. Q. Sir, you understand this wasn't years of HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 50 UCAREF00023262 John L. Myers (11-29-01) scientific evidence, even Dr. Sayers himself says it's understood that it was just -- proposed by an engineer in 1938 as an interim guide as an arbitrary choice, it had no experimental foundation. Do you understand that? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Yeah, I read the first part. He understood that. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Okay. Now, the associate medical director for the entire company is telling everybody that it's probable 5 million particles per cubic foot will not be acceptable for the prevention of mesothelioma. If your associate medical director for the whole company believes that in addition to Dr. Sayers and everybody else, don't you think your company ought to be being honest about that point? MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I don't -- again, I just don't agree with -- he said it's probable. Again that leaves room for doubt. BY MR. LANIER: Q. So unless it's 100 percent -- all right. A. I don't know whether we told Kelly-Moore or what we told Kelly-Moore or didn't tell them. Q. Okay. Did you know back then in the '60s while HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 51 UCAREF00023263 John Ii. Myers (11-29-01) 1 you all were selling your Calidria and in the '70s - 2 you all sold it in the "60s and '70s; right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. You started in 1963 selling it? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did you know back then that there was a concern 7 about whether or not your Calidria had the same degree 8 of danger as other asbestos? 9 A. I didn't know that, no, not then. 10 Q. Did you know the concern was that your Calidria 11 which had, what, short fibers -- it's a short fiber; 12 right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. There was a concern that your Calidria was even 15 more dangerous than the other kinds of chrysotile, did 16 you know that? 17 A. No. 18 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 19 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. 20 BY MR. LANIER: 21 Q. That would be important to know, wouldn't it? 22 A. Well, perhaps. I don't know. What's the 23 question? 24 Q. Look at this June 7th, 1967 letter from your 25 associate medical director to the Dr. Hall with the HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 52 UCAREF00023264 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Union Carbide Europe. The second paragraph he says, we had been interested in the possibility that the short fiber Coalinga product might have a greater hazard than the more conventional form of -- I can't read that on this copy. Upside down. Can you read it? A. It looks like "asbestos." Q. Asbestos something submicron silica has been known to cause. In other words, the shorter fiber might be more dangerous. Did you know about that concern? MR. POWERS: Wait. Object to the form. I just objected. Don't answer the way it's asked.' MR. LANIER: Why? MR. POWERS: Because you quoted -- the reason I'm not going to let him answer is because you were quoting a document, and as best as I was able to follow along, you then added a question which appears to be a S quote but it's not. It's just your question. MR. LANIER: Oh, well, I don't want to mislead. I was saying is he aware of the concern that I read about in the question. MR. POWERS: I understand what you were trying to ask, but the way you asked it your question comes across as a quotation from that document, which it isn't. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 53 UCAREF00023265 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 MR. LANIER: Well, I hope to be showing the 2 document to the jury while I ask it, but I'll be more 3 clear because I know this is a deposition that can be 4 used in other cases. 5 BY MR. LANIER: 6 Q. Sir, I want you to read this first sentence 7 with me. I think we can do all but one word. Let me 8 look at that word. I think that word is going to be 9 "because." Let's see if that doesn't make sense. 10 We've been interested in the possibility that 11 the short fiber Coalinga product might have a greater 12 hazard than the more conventional forms of asbestos 13 because submicron silica has been known to cause rather 14 -- is that rather? 15 A. Rapidly. 18 Q. -- rapidly progressive silicosis after 17 exceedingly brief exposure. Did I read that right? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you know about this concern that your short 20 form Coalinga asbestos was going to be more hazardous? 21 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 22 THE WITNESS: It wasn't going to be more. He 23 said the possibility and - 24 BY MR. LANIER: 25 Q. We will get to the rest of it. You don't know HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 54 UCAREF00023266 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 about the tests that were done to see? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Have you ever heard of Sterling Forest? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Where is Sterling Forest? 6 A. In New York somewhere. 7 Q. Did you know that in 1966 Union Carbide had the 8 Mallon Institute do a special study to see what the 9 potential for different asbestos products is for causing 10 a fibrogenic reaction in the body? 11 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 12 THE WITNESS: I have seen those reports, yes. 13 BY MR. LANIER: 14 Q. Well, I think they're referenced here in Dr. - IS the associate medical director's letter in June of '67. 16 MR. POWERS: Excuse me. Just so we have a nice 17 record. Could you identify who -- the date and who the 18 associate medical director is. 19 BY MR. LANIER: 20 Q. Yeah. The date of this letter is June 7, 1967. 21 It's on Union Carbide Corporation letterhead with the 22 Park Avenue, New York City address. It's addressed to 23 Dr. T.J. Hall with Union Carbide Europa with the Geneva, 24 Switzerland address. It's copied to Dr. Dernehl the 25 M.D. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 55 John L. Myers (1X-29-01) I cannot read this fellow's signature, can you? Do you know who that associate medical director was? A. It looks like C.U. Demehl to me. Q. Except it keeps going kind of long. Maybe it's C.TJ. Dernehl, M.D.? A. M.D. Q. Okay. I guess that would be instead of copied that would be C.U. Dernehl, M.D. down at the bottom, and e.d. it must be who typed it. All right. Sufficiently -- good. So if we look at Dr. Dernehl's letter of June 7th 1967 Dr. Demehl continues, he says, we were concerned about whether the Coalinga material with its exceedingly fine fiber diameter might have a similar effect in causation of asbestosis. We therefore made some preliminary studies in which the material was injected into the body cavity of guinea pigs, rats and rabbits and also was injected intravenously by a method which distributes the asbestos throughout the lungs of rats. The materials injected were the standard fiber, a refined fiber and a long fiber obtained from Johns Manville for the purpose of comparison. In the injection study the Coalinga refined fiber produced the -- what? A. Most severe reaction. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 56 UCAREF00023268 John L. Myers (11-29-01) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Just one second, please. 2 BY MR. LANIER: 3 Q. Your Coalings refined fiber produced the most 4 severe reaction in the belly cavity whereas the standard 5 fiber in the Johns Manville fiber were essentially the 6 same and less severe. Did I read that right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did you know about that concern, about your 9 Coalings fiber being more dangerous than the others? 10 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 11 THE WITNESS: As I said, I have read the 12 studies, yes. 13 MR. LANIER: I want the transcript to show so 14 that when we're reading it that I've a lengthy delay in 15 here that I should not be playing to the jury. That 16 will remind me not to, as I'm reading this and cutting 17 it. 18 BY MR. LANIER: 19 Q. Did you know that the associate medical 20 director. Dr. Dernehl has already testified under oath 21 that chrysotile asbestos could cause mesothelioma? 22 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 23 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. 24 BY MR. LANIER: 25 Q. And you don't have a medical doctor's degree. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 57 UCAREF00023269 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 do you? 2 A. No. 3 Q. You don11 have any medical training that would 4 allow you to cast a personal opinion one way or the 5 other on that issue? 6 A. Not a medical training reason, no. 7 Q. You don't have a toxicology degree either, do 8 you? 9 A. No. 10 Q. when did Union Carbide start selling their 11 asbestos in pellets? 12 A. I believe in 1963. 13 Q. Why? 14 A. Well, the main reason was that the pellets are 15 produced in the drying operation. The -- I don't know 16 whether you want to get into the production system, but 17 all the product is -- it's all a wet process, and one of 18 the final stages is to remove the water from the 19 asbestos which becomes filter cake, which is the 20 consistency of Playdough and that is fed through 21 extruders into a dryer, and it's pelletized so that's 22 it's easy to dry in a tumbling dryer. 23 Q. So making pellets out of the asbestos was a 24 handy, economical thing that was going to happen anyway, 25 so you just sold it as pellets as opposed to regrinding HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 58 John L. Myers {11-29-01) 1 it afterwards; is that fair to say? 2 A. That's much cheaper to produce or to sell as 3 pellets than to grind it. 4 Q. And then the folks that ultimately need to use 5 it, if they need to use it as the powder asbestos, they 6 just grind the pellets; is that right? 7 A. No. In most cases if they couldn't use 8 pellets, we would provide them with the open fiber or 9 ground product. 10 Q. Did the pellets have a coating? 11 A. No. 12 Q. At some point you all started putting some 13 silica coating around some of your asbestos? 14 A. That was the RG-244 which we spoke about 15 earlier. 16 Q. Earlier. And when did that come about? 17 A. In 1967 or '68. 18 Q. Why did your company start putting that silica 19 coating around the pellets? 20 A. Well, as I told you before -- do you want to 21 hear it again? 22 Q. Yeah. It might not have clicked in my brain. 23 I'm sorry. 24 A. Okay. We were trying to develop a product 25 which would compete with material known as Cabosil, HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 59 UCAREF00023271 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 which is a pyrogenic silica. 2 Q. Okay. You got a time out. She's got to type 3 that word, and I don't know what it is. She may, but 4 A. Cabosil. 5 Q. Can you spell that for us. 6 A. C-a-b-o-s-i-1. 7 Q. Okay. What is Cabosil? 8 A. It's a pyrogenic silica. 9 Q- Pyrogenic means -- pyro is fire. Genic means 10 causes? 11 A. Produced in a heat process, by a heat process. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. I think. I mean I'm not familiar with that at 14 all. 15 Q. Okay. So you all wanted to compete with that 16 product. So who made that product? 17 A. The Cabot Corporation. 18 Q. Next question. Tell me about Calidria 19 Corporation. What was that company? 20 A. It was set up, and I can't remember the dates. 21 It had a very brief history, a few months or even weeks 22 maybe. :It was set up to facilitate the sale of the 23 business 24 Q- So that would have been somewhere in the mid 25 ' 80s? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 60 UCAREF00023272 John L. Myers (11-29-01) A. I can't remember that at all. Q. okay. A. Well, I left in >8- -Q. You left in '85? A. They sold the business in '85, so it was before that. Q. So it had to be somewhere mid '80s or something like that. Or the '80s. MR. POWERS: Object to the form. BY MR. LANIER: Q. When you had the Calidria mine and you all were selling this Calidria, was it all sold out of California, or did you ship it other places to sell it from? MR. POWERS: Let me just ask you to clarify, Mark. Your last question referred to after Union Carbide sold the mine and now you're talking about us. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Good point. Union Carbide -- let me use proper names instead of personal nouns. When Union Carbide was selling its asbestos, I gues3 in a sense all over the world -- you all sold it in England; right? A. Yes. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 61 UCAREF00023273 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Q. Would it all get shipped and sold out of 2 California, or did you have other processing places and 3 other distribution places? 4 A. No other processing places. We had warehouses 5 in the United States. 6 Q. Did you have any warehouses in Texas? 7 A. 1 think so, yes. 8 Q. Because X think Kelly-Moore was buying it for 9 use in their Texas plants. 10 In that situation would they have bought it out 11 of -- come from the Texas warehouse or California or 12 could it change -- 13 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 14 BY MR. LANIER: 15 Q. -- load to load? 16 A. It would depend on how much they ordered. If 17 they ordered a complete carload or truckload, it would 18 be shipped from King City. 19 Q. Okay. And was there any other business entity 20 or corporation, a subsidiary corporation or anything 21 that was ever set up around the mine itself in 22 California that you know of? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. I've read in interrogatory answers that 25 Union Carbide sold its asbestos through not only itself HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 62 UCAREF00023274 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 but to other companies to be packaged and sold by those 2 companies. Are you aware of that? 3 A. No. To be packaged by somebody else? 4 Q. Yeah. Like Arco bought your asbestos and 5 re-packaged it and sold it as an Arco asbestos. Did you 6 know about that? 7 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 8 THE WITNESS: It was packaged in King City in 9 Arco bags. 10 BY MR. LANIER: 11 Q. Okay. And then Arco would just -- it would be 12 sold as an Arco asbestos even though you all did the 13 packaging and everything else? 14 A. Yeah. I'm not sure what was on the bags 15 identifying them, the manufacturer. 16 Q- What is magnetite? 17 A. It's a iron-based -- I'm not sure if it's Fe203 18 or Fe304 , but it's an ingredient in asbestos are that is 19 not desirable. 20 Q. So you get the magnetite out of the asbestos? 21 A. A3 much as possible. 22 Q. As much as possible. 23 Sterling Forest, you said, was in New York? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q- Do you know who owned the asbestos mines there? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 63 UCAREF00023275 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Were there asbestos mines in Sterling Forest? A. No. Q. Was there a Union Carbide plant or distribution center in Sterling Forest? A. I don't know. Q. Here's the reason I'm asking. I read this study that supposedly had Union Carbide asbestos as part of it. This is the Mallon Institute report that is shown received by you all July 18, 1966. It looks like it was put out July 8th. And this is the fibrogenic potential of asbestos products in the injection process that we've talked about. In the summary it says the results of intraperitoneal administration indicates the asbestos products studied produced fibrotic lesions of the viseral organs in rats, guinea pigs, regardless of their fiber length. Then of the three products, there's a CMS-100 refined fiber that produces the most severe reaction. That is what we were talking about. But if you look down here, designation of asbestos products, this refined fiber. CTS-100, here it is, shows the source Sterling Forest. I guess that's just where it was sent out from? I'm not getting how your fiber got to Sterling Forest as a source. MR. POWERS: Object to the form. BY MR. LANIER: HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 64 UGAREF00023276 John L. Myers (11-23-01) 1 Q. Can you help me? 2 A. Well, I think that was a laboratory and maybe 3 they did -- I don't know. 4 Q. Okay. In other words. Sterling Forest may have 5 been the laboratory that sent out the 8 ounces of 6 refined fiber? 7 A. That's possible, yes. B Q. Okay. I just -- that I needed. Thank you. 9 What I'd like to do is take about a five-minute 10 break. I don't have a lot more. 11 MR. POWERS: Good. 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 13 11:17 A.,M. 14 (Recess.) 15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going back on the 16 record at 11:36 A.M. 17 MR. LANIER: Pass the witness. IB MR. POWERS: I'm going to go change seats and 19 ask him a few questions. 20 21 EXAMINATION BY MR. POWERS 22 Q. Mr. Myers, good morning. 23 A. Good morning. 24 Q. Mr. Myers, you were retired from Union Carbide 25 -- or you didn't retire from Union Carbide. You left HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 65 UCAREF00023277 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 your employment with Union Carbide in 1985; correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 MR. LANIER: Objection. Leading. 4 BY MR. POWERS: 5 Q. When did you leave your employment with Union 6 Carbide? 7 A. In 1985. 8 Q. When you left your employment in 1985 what did 9 you do next? 10 A. I went with KCAC. All employees were allowed 11 the opportunity to stay with the operation, and I chose 12 to stay. \ 13 Q. Did KCAC continue to operate the mine in King 14 City that was formerly owned by Union Carbide? 15 A. Yes. The mine is actually in San Benito 16 County, the mill operation is in King City. 17 Q. What was your position with KCAC after 1985? 18 A. I was president with the company. 19 Q. Are you still working for KCAC? 20 A. No. I retired in 1993. 21 Q. Where do you live now? 22 A. In King City. 23 Q. What do you do in King City? 24 A. I'm retired. I'm mayor of King City for the 25 last nine years, been on the City Council for 12 years. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 66 UCAREF00023278 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Very active in community service. Q. Mr. Myers, I want to direct your attention back to the time when you did work for Union Carbide and ask you a question, first of all, about something known as the TLV. Do you know what that is? A. Yes. Q. What is it? A. It's the threshold limit value. Q. Before OSHA came into existence in 1970 or '71 do you know whether other organizations, whether they be state agencies or federal agencies or private organizations, proposed standards for exposure to asbestos? A. Yes. Q. Do you know what some of those agencies or organizations were? A. The -- I can't remember the name for sure. The Industrial Hygiene Association or -- MR. LANIER: Foundation. THE WITNESS: -- Foundation. I don't think - anyway. An industrial hygiene group established the - as far as I know the original TLVs for asbestos. BY MR. POWERS: Q. Have you ever heard of an organization called the American Conference of Governmental Industrial HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (B31) 423-5911 67 UCAREF00023279 John L. Myers (11-29-01) Hygienists? A. That's the group X was trying to think of, yeah. ACGIH. Q. In an earlier part of this deposition you were asked some questions about a report prepared by an individual named I.C. Sayers. Do you recall those questions? A. Yes. Q. There were references throughout the earlier part of the deposition to Dr. Sayers. Do you know whether Sayers was a doctor? A. No, I don't. Q. Do you know whether he was a medical doctor? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Or perhaps an engineer who had the title of doctor? A. That could be. I really don't know. Q. You just don't know one way or the other? A. No. Q. X want to direct your attention now to the time that you worked both for Union Carbide and KCAC in King City. Where was your office in relation to the plant that processed the Calidria asbestos fiber? A. It was in a building above the maintenance shop that is within 50 feet or so of the mill. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 68 UCAREF00023280 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Q. Hov^ often were you there in your office 50 feet 2 or so from the mill? 3 A. Every day. 4 Q- Is this -- is this the mill that was processing 5 the Calidria asbestos fiber? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q- Did you wear a respirator? 8 A. Only if I was going to be out in a location in 9 the mill where a respirator was required. 10 Q- Were respirators required in every part of the 11 mill? 12 A. No. 13 Q- Do you have any concerns about your health from 14 having worked 50 feet from the mill that processed 15 Calidria asbestos fiber? 16 A. No, I don't. 17 Q. Do you have friends who worked there? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q- Do you have friends who still work there? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you have concerns about their health? 22 A. No. Not from an asbestos related problem. 23 Q. Mr. Lanier asked you and showed -- asked you 24 about some documents that he showed you. Do you know, 25 were you -- let me back up and start that question over. HARTSELL OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 69 REI John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 Were you involved during your employment at 2 Union Carbide with investigating what the hazards of 3 asbestos were and what to do about them? 4 A. Only as it was necessary to keep informed so - 5 and when I was marketing manager to be able to pass that 6 information on to my salespeople. 7 Q. Were there others in Union Carbide who had 8 medical training and industrial hygiene training whose 9 principal job it was to investigate those hazards? 10 A. Not that I know of. 11 MR. POWERS: Okay. All right. Thank you, isir. 12 That's all the questions I have. 13 14 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. LANIER 15 Q. I got a couple more. 16 KCAC I'm assuming that's King City Asbestos 17 Company? 18 A. No. 19 Q. What -- where did those initials come from? 20 A. I don't know. I don't remember anyway, but it 21 does not stand for anything. 22 Q- Did you have any ownership in KCAC? 23 A. At one point I had a few shares of stock in the 24 company. 25 Q- And when was that? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 70 UCAREF00023282 John L. Myers (11-29-01) A. In the mid '80s. Q. When you were president? A. Yes. Q. Did you have anything to do with the buy-out of the Calidria Mine from Union Carbide? A. No. Q. Did you know when that buy-out -- who owned KCAC? A. It was a group of private investors from San Francisco, Q. Did you know them personally before they bought the company, the mine? A. I only got to know them when they were negotiating with Union Carbide. Q. And you got some ownership of that company when you became president? A. I can't remember if that was at the same time or shortly thereafter, and then I -- they wanted me -- they required me to sell it back in a couple of years. Q. Next issue. Your office was in a building close to the mill. A. Yes. Q. Well, whenever you were around asbestos being processed. I'll bet you you did wear a respirator, didn't you? HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 71 UCAREF00023283 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 A. No. Only in certain areas, because as I said 2 before, it was a wet process, so there was very little 3 or no dust in the air except in the packaging area. 4 Q. But wherever you all had asbestos dust in the 5 air, you were wearing a respirator, weren't you? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Okay. Where were you breathing asbestos dust 8 and not wearing a respirator? 9 A. Well, in the mill in general. There is some 10 dust in the mill, in the general part of the mill, but 11 the only place a respirator is required in the operation 12 is in the packaging area which is a closed off 13 ventilated area. 14 Q. So you wouldn't wear a respirator around 15 asbestos dust? 16 A. If I was in that area, I would, yes. 17 Q. Why? 18 A. Because the levels were below what I thought 19 was safe. 20 Q. So you think that chrysotile asbestos can hurt 21 you? 22 A. No, I mean my personal opinion Calidria 23 chrysotile asbestos, well, does not -- I think it may 24 cause -- if you had exceeding a lot of inhalation over a 25 long period of time you might get the asbestosis which HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-59X1 72 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 you could get from --a similar disease from any dust 2 over a long period of time. 3 Q. So the chrysotile asbestos can hurt you and you 4 would wear a respirator? 5 A. No. I said I didn't wear a respirator except 6 in one area. 7 Q. There were areas where you wore respirators 8 because the chrysotile asbestos can hurt you; right? 9 A. Yes. It can cause asbestosis, or I think it 10 can. We have -- like I say, we haven't had any -- 11 Q. Are you all still selling, or are you all --is 12 KCAC still selling asbestos in the year 2001? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. They sell it overseas? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Third world countries, places like that? 17 A. No. 18 Q. X mean you know it's been banned in Europe; 19 right? 20 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 21 THE WITNESS: I'm not familiar with the latest 22 rules in Europe. 23 BY MR. LANIER: 24 Q. You didn't know it had been banned in Europe? 25 A. I know there were proposals. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 73 UCAREF00023285 John L. Myers (11-29-01) MR. POWERS: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: But 1 haven't kept up with whether that was ever accomplished or not. BY MR. LANIER: Q. Well, what countries do you think are buying asbestos these days? A. Primarily Japan. Q. Is that who you all were selling it to back when you were president? A. We sold to Japan, yes. Q. Do you sell any to Brazil or to any countries like that? A. Yes. MR. LANIER: Okay. I'll pass the witness. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. POWERS Q. Mr. Myers, when you were at King City employed by Union Carbide did you receive correspondence or other written information from Union Carbide's medical department or toxicology department? A. Some, yes. Q. Did it relate to asbestos and the hazards of asbestos? A. Yes. MR. POWERS: Okay. Thank you, sir. HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 74 UGAREF00023286 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 That's all X have. 2 3 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. LANIER 4 Q. So the Union Carbide medical department sent 5 you some of their knowledge -- 6 MR. POWERS: object to the form. 7 BY MR. LANIER: 8 Q. -- is that right? 9 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure whether it was some 11 or whether they sent me all of it. Or what they had. 12 BY MR. LANIER: 13 Q. For example, did you get that Dr. Demehl 14 letter talking about 5 threshold limits not sufficient 15 to keep people from dying from mesothelioma? 16 A. Not that I remember. 17 Q. Okay. So somehow some of the information was IB filtered down to you, but you don't think you got all of 19 the information that they knew about asbestos, do you? 20 A. I -21 MR. POWERS: Object to the form. 22 THE WITNESS: I -- I really don't have any idea 23 what they knew except for what you've shown me today. 24 BY MR. LANIER: 25 Q. And I've shown you some things that you didn't HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 75 UCAREF00023287 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 know about before, haven't X? 2 A. Yes. 3 MR. LANIER: I'll pass the witness. 4 MR. POWERS: Nothing further. 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Anybody else? 6 All right. Stand by and I'll close this up. 7 This marks the end of tape A. It also marks 8 the end of today's deposition of John Myers in the 9 caption Charles R. Latham, et al. versus Union Carbide, 10 et al. Deja View Video will retain the original 11 videotape. 12 We are off the record at 11:49 A.M. on today's 13 date of November the 29th, 2001. 14 (The deposition was concluded at 11:49 A.M.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 76 UCAREF00023288 John L. Myers (11-29-01) DECLARATION OF WITNESS I, JOHN L. MYERS, declare under penalty of perjury that I have reviewed the foregoing transcript; that I have made any corrections, additions, or deletions in my testimony that I deemed necessary; and that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my testimony in this matter. Dated this 2001, at day of , JOHN L. MYERS HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 77 UCAREF00023289 John L. Myers (11-29-01) 1 2 CERTIFICATE 3 4 I, JANET T. OREB, a Certified Shorthand Reporter, 5 License No. 5198, do hereby certify: 6 That I am the reporter who reported the above and 7 foregoing proceedings; that said proceedings were taken 8 down by me in shorthand at the time and place therein 9 named and were thereafter transcribed; and the same is a 10 true, correct and complete transcript of the said 11 proceedings to the best of my ability. 12 I further certify that I am not of counsel or 13 attorney for any of the parties hereto, or in any way 14 interested in the events of this cause, and that I am 15 not related to any party hereto. 16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed my 17 name on this day of , 2001. 18 19 20 21 22 JANET T. OREB Certified Shorthand Reporter 23 24 25 HARTSELL &. OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 1 HARTSELL & OLIVIERI CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS 2 621-A Water Street Santa Cruz, CA 95060 3 (831) 423-5911 4 December 7, 2001 5 JOHN L. MYERS 102 River Drive 6 King City, CA 93930 7 Re: LATHAM vs. GARLOCK, et al. 8 Deposition Date: November 29, 2001 9 Dear Mr. Myers: 10 The transcript of your deposition taken in the above 11 matter has been prepared. If you are represented by an attorney and wish to read and sign the transcript, you 12 should contact your counsel. 13 You may also review your transcript in our office, which is located at 621-A Water Street in Santa Cruz, 14 California. Our office is open weekdays 9:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M. 15 The transcript will be available in our office for 16 review for 30 days from the date of this letter, unless counsel have stipulated to another method. 17 After the 30-day period, the transcript will be sealed 18 and sent for safekeeping to the attorney who noticed the deposition. 19 If you have any questions, please feel free to call our 20 office, (831) 423-5911. 21 Sincerely, 22 23 Kay Hartsell 24 25 cc: Counsel HARTSELL & OLIVIERI (831) 423-5911 79 REI