Document baVwNGR64K96MaxGkkMeMovvg

1 1 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS 2 SUMMIT COUNTY. OHIO 3 GENCORP, 4 Plaintiff, JUDGE CAMPBELL 5 - vs - CASE CV 89 04 1208 6 AETNA CASUALTY AND SURETY COMPANY, et al. , 7 Defendants. 8 9 10 Deposition of PAUL GANN, taken as if upon 1 1 direct-examination before Pamela S. Greenfield, a 12 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary 13 Public within and for the State of Ohio, at the 14 Sheraton Harbor Place, 2500 Edwards Drive, Fort 15 Myers, Florida, at 12:17 p.m. on Friday, October 16 23, 1992, pursuant to notice and/or stipulations 17 of counsel, on behalf of the Defendants in this 18 cause . 19 20 MEHLER & HAGESTROM 2 1 Court Reporters 1750 Midland Building 22 Cleveland, Ohio 44115 216.621.4984 23 FAX 621.0050 800.822.0650 24 25 WATER PCB-00038623 2 1 APPEARANCES: 2 Frank S. Occhipinti, Esq. Anderson, Kill, Olick & Oshinsky 3 666 Third Avenue New York, New York 10017 4 (212) 850-0700, 5 On behalf of Plaintiff; 6 Jerome J. Duchowicz, Esq. 7 Haskell & Perrin 200 West Adams Street, Suite 2600 8 Chicago, Illinois 60606 ( 3 12 ) 78 1-9 39 3 , 9 On behalf of Defendant Continental 10 Casualty Company; 11 Debra L. Reusze, Esq. Kitch, Saurbier, Drutchas, Wagner & Kenney 12 Tenth Floor - One Woodward Avenue Detroit, Michigan 48226 13 (313) 965-7533, 14 On behalf of Defendant St. Paul Fire & Marine; 15 Roily L. Chambers, Esq. 16 Smith, Helms Mulliss & Moore 227 North Tryon Street 17 Charlotte, North Carolina 28202 (704) 343-2050, 18 On behalf of the witness. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 WATER PCB-00038624 3 1 PAUL GANN, of lawful age, called by the 2 Defendants for the purpose of direct examination, 3 as provided by the Rules of Civil Procedure, 4 being by me first duly sworn, as hereinafter 5 certified, deposed and said as follows: 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION OF PAUL GANN 7 BY MR. DUCHOWICZ: 8 Q. Mr. Gann, would you state your full name for the 9 record? 10 A. Paul William Gann. 1 1 Q. Let the record reflect this is the deposition of 12 Mr. Paul William Gann which is being taken 13 pursuant to notice and that Mr. Gann is appearing 14 here today voluntarily. 15 A . Yes, sir. 16 Q. And not under a subpoena and that we are taking 17 his deposition in accordance with the Ohio Rules 18 of Civil Procedure and any stipulations as to 19 objections which have been incorporated 20 apparently into the case management order. 2 1 'Mr. Gann, as you know, I'm going to be 22 asking you a series of questions about your 2 3 involvement with General Tire & Rubber with 24 respect to a product called FR-1 heat transfer 25 oil and any either sales or withdrawal of WATER PCB-00038625 4 1 material from the marketplace or conversion of 2 the product from other plants. 3 If at any time you do not understand what 4 I'm asking you or Mr. Occhipinti or anyone else 5 here, please so indicate and I'll try to either 6 rephrase the question or ask it in a different 7 manner so that at all times you understand what I 8 or anyone else here is asking you, and answer out 9 loud so we know how you're responding, yes, no. 10 Also ask you to answer orally. If you mean 11 yes, say yes instead of uh-huh or hu-huh. It's 12 kind of hard to translate or read back when 13 you're reading it later on in a transcript. 14 Okay? 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. Sir, where do you currently reside? 17 A. Address? 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. 1006 Southwest 18 Terrace, Cape Coral, Florida. 20 Q. And what is your telephone number? 2 1 A. Area code 813-458-4704. 22 Q. How about your Social Security number, 23 if you can remember it? 24 A. I can give you my Army serial number better than 25 I can give you my Social Security number. WATER PCB-00038626 1 299-26-7926. Let me verify it. That's correct. 2 Q. 299? 3 A. 299-26-7926. 4 Q. And how old are you? 5 A. 69 . 6 Q. What is the highest level of formal education 7 that you have? 8 A. BS in chemical engineering. 9 Q. Approximately when did you receive that? 10 A. 194 7 . 11 Q. Any formal education in chemistry or formal 12 training in chemistry after receiving the BS in 13 chemical engineering? 14 A. No. You're referring to academic training? 15 Q . Yes . 16 A . No . 17 Q. How about on-the-job training? When did you 18 first become employed at Monsanto? 19 A. By my recollection, July the 14th, 1947. 20 Q. And during the course of your employment at 2 1 Monsanto, did you become familiar with a product 22 known as FR-1 heat transfer oil? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. When did you first, approximately when did you 25 first learn about that particular product? WATER PCB-00038627 6 1 A. I needed help in recollecting. I had to go by 2 analysis of when we moved to Pensacola, Florida, 3 so I knew it had to be before 1973 and it had to 4 be after 1968 when I moved to St. Louis and then 5 I deciphered by reasoning that it had to be in 6 the latter part of that period and it wasn't 7 until I saw some documents that I realized the 8 specific dates. 9 Q. And did those documents help refresh your 10 recollection as to when you first had any 11 involvement at all with a product called FR-1? 12 A. It depends on how precise you want to be on when 13 I had the first recollection. 14 My involvement was, X can't give you, from 15 the memos, I have to go by that and they say, I 16 had a date on one of them where my name appeared 17 and that was in 1971. I do not recollect from my 18 own brain that that was the date that I was 19 involved in it. 20 Now, I may have heard of FR-1 before, but 2 1 not in conjunction with my involvement with it. 22 Q. Let's go just generally into some of the products 23 which we may be discussing here today. 24 What was FR-1? What is it? 25 A. Well, it's an aerochlore, it's a polychlorinated WATER PCB-00038628 7 1 biphenyl. 2 Q. Do you know the approximate content, does that 3 product contain PCBs? 4 A. That is a PCB, polychlorinated biphenyl is a PCB. 5 Q. Is FR-1 100 percent PCB? 6 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 7 A . I don't know. 8 Q. Do you know what is contained in, what comprises 9 FR-1 chemically? 10 A. Carbon, hydrogen and chlorine. 11 Q. And what is, if you know, a PCB, I mean a 12 polychlorinated biphenyl? Is that -- is. FR-1 and 13 PCB synonymous? 14 A. That, I don't know. I think people, I think 15 there are many PCBs in people's mind. I do not 16 know what people call a PCB. I know that 17 specifically whether it's got one chlorine on it 18 or multiple chlorines on it, I don't know at what 19 point it has to be a polychlorinated. I presume 20 that means more than one, but how many chlorines 2 1 are on there before it defines the PCB, I haven't 22 the foggiest idea. Is that -- I'm not sure I'm 2 3 answering your question. 24 Q. Do you know what the components of FR-1 - 25 A. Not specifically. WATER PCB-00038629 8 1 Q. Is PCB or polychlorinated biphenyl one of the 2 components of FR-1? 3 A. That's my understanding. 4 Q. Do you have any understanding as to the 5 approximate percentage that - 6 A. Not today. I can't recall any composition in my 7 mind. I can't give you a number of percentage of 8 chlorination in there. I can't give you a number 9 of, whether there is other materials other than 10 the polychlorinated biphenyls in there, I do not 11 know. 12 Q. Do you recall ever seeing FR-1? 13 A. Yes . 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm going to object 15 to the form. You mean the letters FR and 16 the Number 1? 17 MR. DUCHOWICZ: No. I said the 18 chemical. The product. 19 A. The material? 20 Q. The material. 2 1 A. The material, yes, I've seen it. 22 Q. Okay. Oh, by the way, to your knowledge, does 2 3 FR-1 stand for anything? Is it an acronym for 24 anything? Strike that. 25 Does FR-1 stand for anything? WATER PCB-00038630 9 1 A. Well, the PCBs were nonflammable material, 2 relatively speaking and the FR, I interpret as 3 meaning flame resistant. 4 Q. With respect to the chemical itself, do you 5 recall what color it was? 6 A. The material that I saw was dark, but I'm not, I 7 do not know if it was used material or new 8 material. 9 Q. So as you sit here today, you don't, well, okay, 10 when you say dark, what do you mean? 11 A. I won't say black, but it was very, very dark in 12 color. You could not see, if you had a bottle a 13 couple inches in diameter, it's pretty, you 14 couldn't see through it directly. 15 Q. You indicated that you don't recall whether you 16 saw clean or used? 17 A. Yes. I don't know if it was virgin material or 18 well-used material. 19 Q. Do you know what years Monsanto sold a product 20 called FR-1? 2 1 A. I do not know when they went into production on 22 it . 23 Q. Do you know approximately when it was being sold? 24 A. Approximately? 25 Q. Yes, approximately. WATER PCB-00038631 10 1 A. The aerochlores, which FR-1 is one of the 2 family. I don't -- wait a minute. No, I do not 3 know when FR-1, because that's a heat exchange 4 aerochlore, I do not know when they went into 5 production on that. 6 Q. Do you know when, was that -- strike that. 7 Did Monsanto ever cease to sell FR-1? 8 A. Yes. They took it off the market. 9 Q. Well, when did they take it off the market? 10 A. By looking at the memos, it was around during the 11 period of 1972. 12 Q. Do you recall, do you know why or the reason that 13 was given for it being withdrawn from the 14 market? 15 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 16 A. Now, it's a question what did I know. 17 Yes, there was some contamination of the 18 product in materials that was causing an 19 environmental, I guess we would classify it as an 20 environmental, that it was affecting some life 21 forms. 22 Q. Contamination of other products with FR-1 that 23 you're referring to? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. During the, at the time that the product, FR-1, WATER PCB-00038632 11 1 was withdrawn from the market -- strike that. 2 The potential environmental problems 3 associated with FR-1, do you know if those 4 dangers were ever communicated to any customers 5 of Monsanto? 6 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm going to object 7 to the form and you're building testimony 8 into your question that isn't in the 9 record. I think it's just probably the way 10 you put the question together more than 11 anything else. 12 Q. Were there environmental dangers associated with 13 the product FR-1, to your knowledge? 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: When? 15 Q. Back in 19 -- at the time that it was withdrawn 16 from the market? 17 A. There are reports of environmental problems. 18 Q. To your knowledge, were any of those reports of 19 environmental problems communicated to customers 20 of Monsanto at that-time, again, in the period 2 1 that it was being withdrawn from the market? 22 A. Dealing with the heat exchange fluids? 23 Q. Yes . 24 A . Yes . 25 Q. How was that, those environmental problems, how WATER PCB-00038633 12 1 were those environmental problems communicated to 2 customers of Monsanto at that time? 3 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 4 Reports of environmental problems was your 5 previous question. 6 Q. Well, let me rephrase it, then, using that 7 language. How were the reports of environmental 8 problems communicated to customers of Monsanto? 9 A. I cannot state all communications. I know in 10 some of my communications, I think there was a 11 government report that was attached to some of my 12 letters and Monsanto had prepared a report or 13 brochure or a letter that I believe was sent to 14 all the known users of the Therminols. 15 Q. You said, you used the term Therminol. 16 What do you mean by Therminol? 17 A. Well, Therminol, FR-1 is one of the Therminols. 18 It's a, Therminol, I believe, was the general 19 term used for the family of products that would 20 be used in heat exchange systems. Therminol 2 1 being, reflecting the temperature, so I believe 22 it was a part of the family of Therminols. 23 Q. Who at Monsanto during the period that FR-1 was 24 being withdrawn had any responsibility with 25 respect to communicating this report, brochure or WATER PCB-00038634 13 1 2 3 A. 4 5 Q. 6 A. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q. 21 22 23 24 25 letter regarding reported environmental problems of FR-1 to customers of Monsanto? I for one, but your question was who is responsible? Well, who did it? Quite a few. In the course of my work on this issue, I would communicate and Cumming Paton, who I worked for, I know he communicated; and possibly prior to my time, other communications may have gone out. I don't know. Now, you recall communicating the reported environmental problems of FR-1 to various customers of Monsanto, is that correct? Yes. I recall sending, but I had to have my mind refreshed. This is not an automatic recall, that there were reports that would be attached to some of my communications, depending upon the nature of the communication, to give further background as to why Monsanto was taking the action. Other than these reports, do you recall whether there-was a, you used three terms altogether and I don't know if you meant one. You said Monsanto communicated either a report, brochure or letter regarding the reported environmental problems with FR-1. What do you WATER PCB-00038635 14 1 mean? 2 A. Okay. I can't say if this is my recollection or 3 my understanding. I'm sorry, I have a little 4 problem being sure where my thought processes are 5 on that time. 6 This is 20 years ago and I'll admit, I don't 7 have a hundred percent recall. 8 There was, again, I'm refreshed by looking 9 at some of the material, memos and all, the, 10 apparently there was a report that was either 11 published in a journal or received from the 12 government or something, but dealing with the PCB 13 environmental question or toxicity question. I 14 can't recall what the detail of that report was, 15 but it was a report that would give background to 16 people as to, that would help get them to 17 understand why Monsanto was taking the action 18 they did. 19 I, number two, would be memos or letters 20 that were issued by me and others that would 2 1 contain commentary relative to the environment 22 would not be detailed but it would reflect that 2 3 this material needs to be, that we're 24 discontinuing it and needs to be returned and 25 Monsanto had a brochure on conversion that was WATER PCB-00038636 15 1 sent out. 2 Whether they had a brochure or a document 3 dealing with the environmental issue, it's not 4 surfacing. It just isn't surfacing. 5 6 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 1, 14-page 7 Therminol Conversion Bulletin, was marked for 8 purposes of identification.) 9 10 Q. Mr. Gann, handing you what's been marked as 11 Exhibit 1, would you please take a look at that 12 document and then tell us if that is a copy of 13 the Therminol conversion bulletin which you 14 believe was sent out? 15 A. It appears to be a copy of the conversion 16 bulletin. 17 Q. Was there more than one conversion bulletin which 18 was distributed? 19 A. I don't recall. I know they had prepared a 20 conversion bulletin that was used by the 2 1 engineers and by the customers that had to 22 remove, and you can see the word Therminol FR-1, 23 FR-1 is one of the Therminols. 24 This is on Page 3. 25 Q. Of Exhibit 1? WATER PCB-00038637 16 1 A. Yes . 2 Q. Okay. We'll come back to that. But since you 3 brought it up, I just wanted to show you that. 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. Other than the brochure, the memos or letters 6 issued by you and others commenting on the 7 discontinuance of this product and a government 8 report, were any other written materials, to your 9 knowledge, supplied to Monsanto's customers 10 regarding the withdrawal of FR-1 from the market? 11 A. Anything other than memos, letters, brochures as 12 far as what we handled? I'm not, I don't recall 13 anything. I think that's pretty broad brush. 14 Q. Were you familiar at all with a product known as 15 Therminol 55? . 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What was Therminol 55? 18 A. Chemically, I don't recall. Use-wise, it was 19 used as a flushing agent in heat exchange systems 20 to flush out the heat exchange system to remove 2 1 the PCB Therminols. 22 Q. Was that, did it have any other functions other 23 than that, to your knowledge? 24 A. It could, just from reading the bulletin, you're 25 saying from my knowledge, from recall? WATER PCB-00038638 17 1 Q. Well, if the bulletin will help refresh your 2 recollection, use it. 3 A. It was sold as a Therminol and therefore, it 4 could be used as a heat transfer fluid; but 5 Therminol 66 was a preferred replacement. 6 Q. So the product Therminol 55 or Therminol 66 could 7 be used as a replacement for the FR-1? 8 A. . I don't want to say that. Therminol 66 could 9 be. I do not know about Therminol 55. Therminol 10 55 was used, sold, to my understanding primarily 1 1 to aid in the flushing out of the equipment. 12 Therminol 66 was a replacement flui-d, 13 nonPCB. 14 Q. To your knowledge, did Therminol 55 contain PCBs? 15 A. Not as a virgin material. Only when it's used. 16 Q. When it was used to flush out other material? 17 A. Yes. When it got through flushing, it would have 18 PCBs in it. But it itself was a nonPCB product. 19 Q. Are you familiar with one other product, and you 20 may have seen this somewhere in some of the 2 1 documents, called MCS-681? 22 A. That is not ringing a bell. I haven't seen any 23 document with that on it. 24 Q. Back during the period of, let's start with 1970, 25 approximately. I know you worked at Monsanto for WATER PCB-00038639 18 1 quite a few years before then, but in 1970, what 2 was your position with Monsanto, if you recall, 3 approximately 1970; '69, '70? 4 A. I never worked on the same job more than a couple 5 years, which was to my liking, too. It was 6 exciting. 7 In 1970, I could have been working on the 8 Vican project. That's a Nylon-6 polymer that was 9 used for making furniture for Disney World. 10 Again, I'm not positive of the exact time, but 11 that was probably about where I was. 12 Q. Did you ever become involved in the withdrawal of 13 FR-1 from the market? 14 A. Yes. 15 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Asked and 16 answered. 17 Q. Approximately when did you first have any direct 18 involvement in the withdrawal of the product? 19 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object. Asked and 20 answered. 2 1 Q. Go ahead, you can answer it unless your attorney 22 instructs you not to. 2 3 MR. CHAMBERS: No, go ahead. 24 MR. OCCHIPINTI: If I say something, 25 it's just for the record. WATER PCB-00038640 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 A. 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Yes. Your attorney will tell you if you should not say anything. - MR. CHAMBERS: Okay. Off the record. (Thereupon, a discussion was had off the record.) I could not recollect clearly without the help of seeing some of the correspondence and so it appears that I was on the project of t h e~ assignment for aiding in the withdrawal of the FR from heat exchange systems, late 1971 and into a good chunk of 1972. What were, as of late 1971, what were your responsibilities with respect to the withdrawal of that product from the market? I was assigned as I guess a coordinator-type job to contact all users and to find out all users we may not have knowledge of, if we could, in other words, lead up, follow up any leads we get from anywhere as to who may be using FR products and advise them that Monsanto was withdrawing the product and that we recommended their sending the WATER PCB-00038641 20 1 product back to Monsanto and cleaning out their 2 equipment and that we would work with them 3 technically in their accomplishing the job; and 4 in the performance of that, I would send them 5 some of the bulletins relative to PCBs' 6 environmental concern. 7 Q. At that time, was anyone else, did anyone else at 8 Monsanto have the same responsibilities as you 9 have just described? 10 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object. Asked and 11 answered. 12 Q. 13 In other words, were there other people doing the same thing that you have just described? 14 A. Not doing, not to my knowledge doing the same 15 thing. 16 Q. There were other people that reported under you 17 who did -- 18 A. No. They didn't report to me. They reported 19 more or less to Cumming Paton as I reported to 20 Cumming Paton. 2 1 Q. Who was Cumming Paton? 22 A. Other than my boss, I looked at him as the man 23 who was directing the program to withdraw this 24 fluid from the market. 25 Q. Okay. I guess what I'm getting at is you've WATER PCB-00038642 21 1 indicated contacting users and identifying other 2 users from leads. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. My question is was there anyone else at Monsanto 5 who was also contacting customers and following 6 up on leads just like you were? In other words, 7 was there a room of three or four people doing 8 basically the same thing or were you the only 9 person? 10 A. No. I would get information from field people. 11 If the salesmen ran into people using the 12 material, yes, they would alert me who was using 13 it. Our engineers, there were a group of 14 engineers assigned to work with customers to aid, 15 if they could, in the how to remove the PCBs from 16 their system or if they were having mechanical 17 problems, they might have some recommendations. 18 Q. To your knowledge, did you then make contact with 19 all of the at least known customers of Monsanto 20 who had been using FR-1 with respect to the 2 1 withdrawal of that product? 22 A. I attempted to make contact either by mail or by 23 phone to all the customers or users of PCB. 24 Q. And you - 25 A. -- of the Therminol FR, excuse me. WATER PCB-00038643 22 1 Q. You described five or six, possibly more, things 2 which you did with the withdrawal of the product 3 from the market, including advising them of the 4 withdrawal and recommending the return of FR-1, 5 recommending the cleaning out of their systems. 6 To your knowledge, did you advise all the 7 customers that you made contact with as to those 8 particular items? 9 A. That was my job and my intention was to advise 10 everybody and therefore, all I can say is I hope 11 I advised everybody because that's exactly what I 12 was to do. 13 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Let me just note my 14 objection to the form and a point of 15 clarification. I mean, one of the things he 16 mentioned was identify all users. Is your 17 question whether or not he notified all 18 customers that he was identifying all 19 users ? 20 Q. No. My question is to your knowledge, did you 2 1 advise all users or recommend to all users that 22 they clean out their equipment as a part of the 23 withdrawal of FR-1? 24 A. Let me put this in a little different light. 25 The, what I call the project which I was on, WATER PCB-00038644 23 1 whether I did it personally or other people sent 2 out information or contacted customers would be 3 people other than myself, yes, I was one. I was, 4 and I was a contact. It was my phone that people 5 would call about returning material or anything 6 to this sort, but I expect that there were other, 7 even before I got on the project, perhaps letters 8 may have gone out to their customers. I'm not 9 sure I'm answering your question. 10 Q. I think that doesn't. Again we're talking about 11 generally for all the customers which you had 12 contact with. _ 13 At the time that they were advised of the 14 withdrawal of FR-1, did Monsanto provide them 15 with possible alternative Therminols or heat 16 transfer oils that could be used; in other words, 17 suggestions as to what to do now that we're no 18 longer going to sell you FR-1? 19 A. Yes. We advised them that we had Therminol 66 20 available. 21 Q. Anyth-ing else? 22 A. No. That was a replacement fluid. I think it 23 was the only replacement fluid that I was aware 24 of that we had. 25 Q. Okay. To your knowledge, were they also advised WATER PCB-00038645 24 1 that there were other nonMonsanto products which 2 could be substituted for FR-1? 3 A. I'm not sure what I said to them relative to 4 that. We know that some customers were 5 converting over to nonMonsanto products. Whether 6 that came up in conversation, whether or not I or 7 anybody else advised them, yes, there are other 8 products out there other than Therminol 66. If 9 you're i-n that business, you're going to know. I 10 mean, if you're a purchasing agent for heat 1 1 exchange fluids, it's your job to know other 12 products, but I can't say what I told them 13 because I don't recall that kind of specifics. 14 Q. Were there, was there something called a 15 conversion team? 16 A. Yes . 17 Q. What was a conversion team? 18 A. A group of engineers who had the technical 19 capability of either advising or working with 20 customers on specific heat exchange conversion 21 problems. 22 Q. Was there - 2 3 A. I'm referring to mechanical problems, not 24 economical problems or political problems. 25 Q. Was there a conversion team? How many conversion WATER PCB-00038646 25 1 teams were there? 2 I'm only aware of one conversion team, a group of 3 engineers. 4 Q. What individuals, if you recall, were members of 5 this conversion team? 6 By name? 7 Q. Yes . 8 I've got a problem. I can see faces. I can't 9 see names. Now, I have been made aware of one 10 name because I saw some documents, but I don't 11 think I would have come up with any names without 12 seeing some documents. - 13 Q. What name do you recall? 14 A. Well, Danzer is the only name I've seen on a 15 document and he's the only one I can. 16 Q. What was his first name, do you recall? 17 A. No . 18 Q. Are you familiar with a gentleman by the name of 19 Robert Roder, R-o-d-e-r? 20 A. Bob Roder? 2 1 Q. Bob Roder? 22 A. Jim Roder. Am I lying? Is it Jim? 23 Q. I don't know. Hold on a second. 24 MS. REUS Z E: I think it's James. 25 MR. OCCHIPINTI: It is James. WATER PCB-00038647 26 1 Q. Let's assume it's James. Do you recall a James 2 Roder? 3 A . Yes , sir. 4 Q. Who was he? First of all, was he a member, was 5 he part of the conversion team? 6 A. I don't consider, in my ball game, I didn't 7 consider him part of the conversion team in the 8 same sense that the engineers and myself were on 9 the conversion team. 10 Jim, I believe, was a salesman and I didn't 11 look to him as a member of the conversion team. 12 I looked at him as a hell of a good salesman. 13 Q. You didn't rely on him for any technical 14 expertise in the field, correct? Strike that. 15 Let's withdraw that. 16 Were you a member of the conversion team? 17 A. My, I interpreted myself as being part of the 18 conversion team as a coordinator, if you wish. 19 Q. Did you ever observe or see any of the 20 conversions of any customers' systems actually 2 1 taking place? 22 A . No . 23 Q. Did you ever go out to any of the customers' 24 facilities during when the conversion was taking 25 place? WATER PCB-00038648 27 1 No . 2 Q. How about prior to conversions taking place? 3 No . 4 Did anyone at Monsanto have any responsibility to 5 go out -- strike that. 6 Did anyone at Monsanto have any 7 responsibility to actually be at a site while a 8 conversion was taking place just generally? I 9 mean, I know there could have been exceptions. 10 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Did you say have 11 occasion to? 12 MR. CHAMBERS: I think you phrased 13 that have responsibility to and if you 14 wouldn't object to rephrasing it to have 15 occasion to, I think that's a little 16 better. Well, maybe not. Maybe you want to 17 start with responsibility. 18 Let me ask you this: With respect to any 19 conversions which took place with FR-1 to another 20 product, let's assume that a Monsanto product, 2 1 the conversion material, being T-66, Therminol 66 22 or something else, did anyone in those situations 2 3 at Monsanto have the responsibility to be present 24 during the conversion process? 25 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Note my objection WATER PCB-00038649 28 1 to form. 2 A. The word responsibility is what I'm hung up on. 3 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Me, too. 4 A. I believe -5 Q. Well, let me withdraw it, then. 6 To your knowledge, did anyone from Monsanto 7 go out to the site during - 8 A. A conversion? 9 Q. -- a conversion? 10 A. I think so . 11 Q. Do you know if that was done on more than one 12 occasion or do you think it might have been more 13 than one occasion? 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: More than one 15 occasion per conversion, per customer or, 16 I'm not sure what you're asking. 17 A. I'm having a problem of knowing whether these 18 engineers went out before the conversion to aid 19 in discussions of any problems that the customer 2 0 might want to discuss on the mechanical set-up 21 that they have or whether they were out there 2 2 during the conversion. I cannot recall the 23 differential conditions there. I can't say. 24 Q. Okay. Let's talk with respect to the general 25 procedure of how Monsanto conducted or oversaw WATER PCB-00038650 29 1 the withdrawal of its product from the market but 2 particularly with respect to conversions. 3 In the normal course of events, did someone 4 from Monsanto, in particular an engineer, visit 5 the site where the conversion was going to take 6 place ? 7 A. My recollection is the customer initiated the 8 request for an engineer to come out. I don't 9 recall, I just simply don't recall us initiating 10 a request. We may in a conversation or in a 11 letter might say that we have engineers available 12 that you can, you know, talk things over,with, 13 but I can't in my mind come out with a specific 14 where an engineer was there at the conversion. 15 Q. Do you know if engineers ever went out to 16 conversion sites -- strike that. 17 I think you indicated that engineers, and 18 correct me if I'm wrong, that engineers on 19 occasion would go out to the site prior to the 20 initiation of the conversion, correct? 2 1 A. That's my recollection. 22 Q. To your knowledge, what was the purpose of those 23 visits to the site? 24 A. Oh, I thought I had stated that. To aid in 25 answering questions relative to some mechanical WATER PCB-00038651 30 1 circumstance that that particular site was 2 facing. 3 Well, let me just, I'd like to go through a list 4 of a few names of people who may or may not be 5 associated with Monsanto and see if you can place 6 them in perspective as to where they are in this 7 whole chain. 8 Okay . 9 Q. A Mr. E.L. Shimley? 10 A. That name does not ring a bell. 11 Q. C. Paton is Cumming Paton? 12 Yes . 13 Q. D. Roush? 14 Don Roush. 15 Q. Who was he and again, if you know, with respect 16 to the conversion process? 17 A. I'm only oriented on conversion. 18 During the time, and I'm only oriented 19 during the time that I was involved in the 20 conversion process. 2 1 Q. All right. 22 A. Don was a, oh, what do you call him? A 23 technical, I don't want to call him a technical 24 salesman, but he was a technical support to the 25 sales people. WATER PCB-00038652 31 1 Q. What does that mean? 2 A. If you have technical questions relative to 3 characteristics of the product, how that product 4 is -functioning in your particular system, he 5 would be, I would think, the first person i 6 technically you would call. 7 Q. That would be before you'd go a level up to some 8 engineer? 9 A. This would be in the normal course of events. I 10 think this is what he was doing basically before 11 I got there, so he had this background. 12 During the conversion, he was one ojf our 13 technical resources. 14 Q. How was he a technical resource? What did he do 15 as a technical resource? 16 A. He knew many of the installations, knew of many 17 of the installations, may have visited some of 18 these installations and as a result, as these 19 installations came to a conversion situation, he 20 knew either the people there, which would help 2 1 us, or he could tell the engineers involved in 22 the conversion what they might expect if they go 2 3 up there to look at the equipment. 24 Q. P.L. Slayton. Do you know who that was? 25 A. Paul. Paul Slayton. My God, I hope I'm on the WATER PCB-00038653 32 1 right guy. If it is Paul, if it's the Paul 2 Slayton who I'm thinking of, he was involved in 3 the Therminol -- I'm sorry, not Therminols. The 4 polychlorinated biphenyls, the products that went 5 into the dielectric applications. 6 Q . Dielectrics? 7 A. Dielectric, transformers, electrical use. 8 Q. Did he have any involvement as far as you know, 9 with respect to heat transfer oil? 10 A. Not to my knowledge. 11 Q. How about a J.S. Pulman? 12 A. I think I've heard the name but he doesn't, I 13 can't help you on him. 14 Q. How about C.F. Seger or Seger, S-e-g-e-r? 15 A. That doesn't ring a bell at all. 16 Q. In the early 1970s when the withdrawal was taking 17 place, and I'll try not to keep on restating that 18 for every question but that's the area I'm really 19 concentrating on for the purposes of these 20 questions right here, were there different 21 procedures that were available -- strike that. 22 Were there different procedures which could 23 be followed to convert a heat transfer oil system 24 which had been using FR-1 to some other nonFR-1 25 product ? WATER PCB-00038654 33 1 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Just note my 2 objection to the form of the question 3 insofar as you qualified when the conversion 4 . was taking place. I'm not sure that came 5 from this witness. In fact I'm sure it 6 didn't come from this witness, the way you 7 described it . 8 Well, in the 19, early 1970s? 9 Yes . 10 Were there different procedures which could be 11 followed to convert from the FR-l-based heat 12 transfer oil system? _ 13 I'm having a problem with your concept of 14 procedure. I'm not aware of different 15 procedures. 16 Well, were there different chemicals or compounds 17 used in the conversion process? 18 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to the 19 f orm . 20 Can I answer? 21 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Of course. 22 There again I had to be reminded when I saw some 23 documents that in certain, some cases, in some 24 heat exchange systems where it was necessary to 25 clean out further, more than just flushing out WATER PCB-00038655 34 1 with Therminol 55, draining and flushing out and 2 trying to get it all out that way, that they, I 3 think it was an acid treatment or some other kind 4 of treatment to help clean the equipment of 5 perhaps sludge or scale that might have developed 6 over the process of operation, so, yes, that 7 would be a different procedure that I think was 8 used in some cases. 9 Okay. Let's back up to the first procedure or 10 process which you described earlier. You 11 indicated drain and flush out with Therminol 55? 12 You drain out all of the FR that you can. This 13 is generally speaking. I was never at a site, so 14 I don't know specifically what, how they 15 operated; but generally you drain, remove all the 16 fluid that you can remove and then you flush it 17 out with Therminol 55, collecting all of that, of 18 the 55, all of the flushings and then Monsanto 19 would have it all returned. 20 All of the FR-1 would be removed from the system 2 1 and the system completely refilled with Therminol 22 55? 23 However the flushing was done. I don't want to 24 say it was refilled. They would flush it. How 25 they flush it, I cannot help you on that. WATER PCB-00038656 35 1 Q. But you -2 A. Because I was never there. 3 2. You have no knowledge as to how long the 4 Therminol 55 would remain in the system or if it 5 would just go straight through the system? 6 A. No. No. No. No. I'd have to read the 7 conversion bulletin and, but I was not involved 8 in that specific aspect of the conversion. 9 2- What was the purpose of flushing the system? 10 A. To aid the removal of PCBs, any PCBs that is 11 retained after draining. 12 . And while any of the flushing material remained 13 in the system, flushing material would contain 14 the residual PCB, whatever would have been left 15 in the system, correct? 16 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Note my objection 17 to the form. Are you talking about what's 18 in the - 19 I know of no analysis to know what the PCB level 20 of the material was that was left behind. I'm 2 1 sure there was a molecule. I don't mean to be 22 facetious, excuse me. I have no idea how much 23 fluid would be retained in any system. 24 But the purpose of the flushing material was to 2 5 remove the residual PCB? WATER PCB-00038657 36 1 To remove it, the residual, to a level to where 2 it would be reasonable, I guess not reasonable, 3 it would be satisfactory for operation. 4 Q. Again just general procedure, the FR-1 which had 5 been removed from the system, was that returned 6 to Monsanto? 7 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Again generally 8 speaking? 9 Q. Generally speaking? 10 Our request was to have all FR-1 drainings, any 1 1 FR-1 that they have on their premises and all 12 spent flushings returned to Monsanto. 13 Q. Why was that? 14 Because we had a facility to where we could 15 dispose of the material in a high-temperature 16 incinerator. 17 Q. Were the flushings to be, well, were flushings 18 returned to Monsanto also because they might 19 contain PCB, residual PCBs? 20 A. Yes . 2 1 Q. You indicated flushing material was placed into 22 the system as one of the ways it was converted? 2 3 A. If you're asking me, I was never at a system, so 2 4 I do not, have never observed and I do not know 25 with precision how a flush was operated. WATER PCB-00038658 37 1 Q. My question, though, is once the flushing 2 material had cleared the system, was the system 3 then refilled with other heat transfer oil? 4 A. I do not know. I could only assume. We would 5 recommend refill with Therminol 66. I hope I'm 6 answering. 7 Q. Yes. If you aren't, it's my job to come back 8 some other way; so assume that you have if we 9 keep on going. 10 Directing your attention to the, again the 11 period that you were involved in the withdrawal, 12 '71, late '71 at least through sometime in 1972, 13 when did you first become aware of a conversion 14 to take place with respect to the General Tire 15 Toledo facility, conversion from FR-1 to some 16 other material? 17 A. I could, I cannot recall anything from my brain. 18 I have to go to the memoranda to, and I don't, I 19 have to rely completely on the written document. 20 I don't, it does not stand out. 2 1 Q. Approximately, maybe we can get some 22 perspective. 23 Approximately how many conversions from FR-1 24 to some other material were you involved with? 25 A. My recollection it was hundreds, more than one. WATER PCB-00038659 38 1 Less than a million. 2 3 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 2, one-page 4 December 28, 1971 Paton letter to Grubaugh, was 5 marked for purposes of identification.) 6 7 Q. Mr. Gann, handing you what's been marked Exhibit 8 2, I'd ask you first of all if you'd take a look 9 at that document and tell us whether you recall 10 ever receiving a copy of it? 11 A. I can't say that I can physically or mentally 12 remember seeing this document. It is a document 13 similar to, I won't say exactly this kind of 14 document, but I can't remember individual 15 documents. 16 Q. Okay. There is a P.W. Gann listed at the upper 17 right-hand corner? 18 A. I have to assume that's me. 19 Q. Okay. Now, there is a checkmark or something 20 immediately to the left of that name? 21 A. Right. It looks to me like this came from my 22 files . 23 Q. Was that checkmark something that you would 24 normally place on anything which had been copied 25 or distributed to you? WATER PCB-00038660 39 1 My expectation is that this checkmark was made by 2 the secretary to mark who this copy went to. I 3 think it's a routing mark. Rooting you do to a 4 sewer. It's a routing mark. 5 Q. Does this document at all help refresh your 6 recollection as to approximately when you were, 7 became aware of the Monsanto - 8 I have to rely a hundred percent on this date. 9 I'm, the fact it was December, 1971, I guess 10 that's true because this is what it says here. I 11 really can't give you from my own recollection as 12 to a timing any better than this . _ 13 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that you did 14 not receive a copy of what's been marked 15 Deposition Exhibit 2? 16 A. Oh, no, I have no reason to believe that I didn't 17 get it. I'm sure I got it. 18 Q. Are you familiar with a gentleman by the name of 19 Wayne Grubaugh from General Tire? 20 A. Not offhand. 21 22 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 3, two-page 23 Conversion Action, was marked for purposes of 24 identification.) 25 WATER PCB-00038661 40 1 Mr. Gann, handing you what's been marked Exhibit 2 3, I'd first of all ask you if you'd take a look 3 at that document and tell us if you recognize 4 what this is a photocopy of? 5 I recognize it. It's got my handwriting on it. 6 What is it? 7 It looks like a kind of log sheet following the 8 progress of communication with a company. It 9 doesn't say who. 10 11 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 4, two-page 12 September 21, 1972 Gann letter to Ransford, was 13 marked for purposes of identification.) 14 15 Q. Would you take a look at Exhibit 4, briefly 16 review it and let us know when you've completed 17 tha t ? 18 A. Oh, there is where your MCS-681. Okay. 19 Q. First of all, with respect to Exhibit 4, do you 20 recognize what that document is, the one that's 2 1 in your hand right now? 22 A. It appears it's a document that I sent out. I 23 cannot, again I can't recall, I can't put myself 24 back 20 years ago and say yes, I remember doing 25 this. I can't do that, but I would say that this WATER PCB-00038662 41 1 is certainly in line with what I was doing. 2 With respect to, there is a gentleman listed at 3 the top, it seems to be addressed to a Mr. R. 4 Rans ford. 5 Do you see that? 6 |A. Right. 7 Q. First of all, do you recall having any direct 8 contact through either telephone calls or other 9 communications with anyone at General Tire with 10 respect to their conversion at the Toledo plant? 11 A. The only recall would be based upon my notations 12 here. I do not have any recall without -the help 13 of this. 14 Q. You're indicating the Exhibit 3? 15 A. Exhibit 3, yes, where his, I think his name is 16 listed here, yes, on March 16th, called Ransford 17 to alert him on, yes. 18 Q. Let's go through some of the entries because 19 unfortunately, I had a hard time deciphering some 20 of the handwriting. 21 A. Well,-most people do and I was fortunate to have 22 secretaries that could decipher me. 23 Q. On Exhibit 3, the first entry at 3/16/72, is that 24 your handwriting? 25 A. It sure looks like my handwriting and that's the WATER PCB-00038663 42 1 way I initial things, or did at that time. 2 Q. Could you read that into the record so we're 3 certain what it specifically says? 4 A. Okay. Under Item 3, progress of conversion, date 5 March or 3/16/72. "Called Ransford to alert him 6 on need for five day or more lead time on 3,000 7 gallon tank --" 8 Q. It says TT? 9 A. It says TT. I can't believe we'd send a tank 10 truck, but maybe we did. "Delivery. He will 11 issue order next week." ... 12 Next item is, next entry is 3/16/72. This 13 is written apparently by an engineer called 14 Danzer. 15 Q. I'm not going to ask you to read other people's 16 handwriting. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. What is the next entry that you recognize as 19 being yours? 20 A. September 6, '72 and I'm not sure that's my 2 1 handwriting. 22 Q. Is that September 6th or June 9th? 23 A. I'm sorry, June 9th. I'm sorry, my eyes 24 flipped. I apologize. 25 I do not know who, the name ends in Y. I WATER PCB-00038664 43 1 don't know who that is and I don't believe that's 2 my handwriting. The next item is August 7th, 3 '72. "Called Jordan, COP." That probably is 4 within Monsanto. 5 . Did COP mean something? 6 . Well, I had some help on that. It could be 7 central order or something. I'm not quite, I 8 can't recall how this organization was set up. I 9 need more help. 10 "Called saying they were expecting." 11 . Is that expecting or expediting? 12 . That could be expediting, yes. That they "called 13 saying they were expediting the MCS-6," and I 14 don't know what the next number is, and a one. 15 "Shipment but needed 10 drums of T-55 16 immediately for top-up." 17 . What was a top-up? 18 . Well, a top-up would be where the fluid level in 19 their exchange, heat exchange system was below 20 their recommended operating level and they needed 2 1 to increase the fluid level within the heat 22 exchange system for it to operate effectively and 23 so apparently they were adding some Therminol 55 24 to their system for that purpose. 25 (2 . Okay. WATER PCB-00038665 44 1 I can't get the next word, slash "Jordan" and I 2 have something with an arrow and it says, 3 "Uniroyal at Port Clinton bought 64 drums of 4 T-55 in June. Carol to check Shimley." My God, 5 that's the guy. Lousy memory. 6 "To see if can put 10 from them rather than 7 out of Chicago." 8 Apparently they're trying to get some 9 Therminol there quickly and they were trying to 10 figure out where to get it from. 11 That last statement was not written here. 12 September 18, '72. I'm going to say that's 13 Sipes, but that doesn't make sense. 14 We don't want you to guess. It's deciphering of 15 your own handwriting and a bad copy. 16 Well, it's lousy writing and a lousy copy. 17 Trailer T-55 over loading sample indicated, 18 are loading sample indicated flakes of rust and 19 something high in boiling point. Maybe a 10, one 20 degree high in boiling point, parentheses, "Paton 2 1 said boiling point no issue," end of 22 parentheses. 23 "Customer had started unloading Monday," 24 that's September 18th, when, sure looks like 25 Sipes , called. WATER PCB-00038666 45 1 "Customer not notified of possible scale 2 problem. Assume his system," I don't know what 3 that word is. "Customer has 1,000 gallon more of 4 Therminol 55 than needed." 5 Could you read the handwriting under the date of 6 9/18? 7 Oh, on the right? Discussed between Sipes and 8 Roder, Sipes and Roder. I can't say that's 9 Roder. And I can't figure out the last two, the 10 last word looks like night. Friday night, that's 11 what that says. Discussed between Sipes and 12 somebody Friday night. - 13 Q. Okay. Let's stop right there with respect to 14 trying to go through your notes. We'll probably 15 get back to it and pick up. 16 Backing up, does Exhibit 3 help at all 17 refresh your recollection as to whether you were 18 directly involved in the conversion of the system 19 at the Toledo plant as of March of 1972? 20 A. Is that where Clinton is? Port Clinton? Is that 2 1 Toledo? No. I don't know that this was the 22 Toledo plant. I can't, see, I can't recall any 2 3 company specifically, is the problem that I have 24 with you. 25 I have to rely completely as to what WATER PCB-00038667 46 1 verbiage is available and I can only vouch for 2 the fact that I think this verbiage is correct. 3 Q. Does this document help refresh your recollection 4 that you were dealing with a Mr. Ransford with 5 respect to the conversion of some heat transfer 6 oil system in March of '72? 7 A. In March, I called a fellow by the name of 8 Ransford. This document doesn't tell me where he 9 was or who he worked for. 10 Q. Directing your attention to Exhibit 4, which is 11 the letter next to you, does that help refresh 12 your recollection as to who Mr. Ransford was? 13 A. Well, it doesn't affect my recollection because I 14 don't recollect. It's just that this Ransford 15 here obviously, well, not obviously, I assume is 16 the same Ransford. 17 Q. After, earlier I had asked you a few questions 18 about a product by the name of MCS-681? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Do either of these two documents. Exhibits 3 or 2 1 4, help refresh your recollection as to what that 22 chemical or product was? 23 A. No. The number looks familiar but the product 24 identity has not surfaced yet in my brain. I 25 just can't help you. WATER PCB-00038668 47 1 . Do you recall whether that particular product, 2 even though you don't know the identity, was used 3 in any of the conversion processes? 4 A. I can't say for certain whether it was or was 5 not. I can't even say for certain whether it was 6 a Monsanto product. The way it's presented here, 7 it appears to be a Monsanto product but I don't 8 know that for certain. 9 . Do you recall what product General Tire used as a 10 substitute for the FR-1? 11 A. What they finally converted to? 12 Q. Yes. . - 13 A. I have no recollection of what any individual 14 company converted to. 15 Q. Okay. Do either of these two documents, Exhibits 16 3 or 4, help refresh your recollection as to what 17 product they eventually converted to? 18 . No. No. Well, unless it says that they actually 19 converted to this product, and I'd have to, it 20 wouldn't be recollection, it would be what I 2 1 read . - 22 Q. Okay. Exhibit 4, was that document, was that 23 letter of yours accurate at the time that you 24 wrote it? 25 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Objection. Does he WATER PCB-00038669 48 1 remember writing it? 2 Q. Well, I think -- strike that. 3 Exhibit 4 I believe you've already 4 testified, and correct me if I'm wrong, is a copy 5 of a letter that you believe you wrote or sent? 6 That's true. I believe I wrote this. I do not 7 recollect physically writing it. 8 Q. At the time that you wrote this letter, do you 9 have any reason to believe that it was not 10 accurate? 11 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Does he have any 12 reason to believe today that what's in here 13 is not accurate? Is that what you're 14 asking? 15 MR. DUCHOWICZ: That was not 16 accurate at the time that it was written. 17 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Just note my 18 objection to the form of the question. 19 A. I have every reason to believe that at the time I 20 wrote this, I wrote this as accurate as I 2 1 possibly could. 22 Q. And as you sit here today, you do not recall any 23 of the contents, any of the facts which are set 24 forth in Exhibit 4 from personal recollection? 25 A. No, sir, I do not recall anything in personal WATER PCB-00038670 49 1 recollection. 2 Q. And having reviewed Exhibit 4, do you have any, 3 does Exhibit 4 help refresh your recollection as 4 to any of the facts set forth therein? 5 A. It does not aid in my recollection. It helps aid 6 my understanding of what was going on, but not on 7 recollection of a specific. 8 Q. Let me ask you some specific references in that 9 letter, see if it, as opposed to you generally 10 looking at a blanket letter. 11 Okay. 12 Q. On the second page of Exhibit 4, there is a 13 reference under blind note to carbonees. Do you 14 see that? 15 A. Yes . 16 Q. The first one says. Number 1, "Late July, '72, 17 the Toledo Plant lost about 1,000 gallons of 18 FR . " 19 Do you see that? 20 A Yep . 21 Q 22 Do you recall that event? Do you recall being informed of that event? 23 A. Not in my mind. 24 Q. Other than what's set forth in this exhibit - 25 strike that. WATER PCB-00038671 50 1 Number 2 says, "The system conversion 2 requires shutdown of a major production unit. 3 This is the prime reason for the extended 4 emergency top-up." 5 Do you see that? 6 Yes . 7 Q. Do you recall there be being any - 8 I recall emergency circumstances. I do not 9 recall General Tire being one of them. 10 Do you recall anyone from General Tire telling 11 you that there had been a loss of a thousand 12 gallons of FR in July or at any point in time 13 during the conversion process? 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Asked and 15 answered. 16 Q. You can answer. 17 I can answer? 18 Q Yes . 19 I cannot recall the conversation. I only can 20 infer a conversation based upon the documents. I 2 1 can't recall a conversation on this. 22 Q. I'm not asking you, though, if you recall 23 specifically what you said but do you recall 24 being advised of there having been a loss of a 25 thousand gallons of FR from the General Tire WATER PCB-00038672 51 1 plant? 2 A. I do not recall being advised. All I can say is 3 I must have been advised by someone to make that 4 statement. 5 Q. Did General Tire receive a copy of the conversion 6 bulletin, the Therminol conversion bulletin from 7 Monsanto, and again directing you to, 8 specifically to the reference to the enclosure on 9 Exhibit 4? 10 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I object. This 1 1 witness is in no position to testify as to 12 what GenCorp received. 13 Q. General Tire was supplied with? 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 15 A. Can I answer? 16 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Yes. 17 Q. Yes. 18 A. I only can say that based upon the 19 correspondence, that it would have been attached 20 to it. This one, yes, it says, wait a minute, 21 does it say that it included? 22 Q. Under enclosures? 2 3 A. Yes. Therminol enclosure bulletin. I'm 24 confident that it went out. Do I know that it 25 went out for sure, I can't recall. WATER PCB-00038673 52 1 Q. And as Mr. Occhipinti has pointed out, you have 2 no knowledge as to whether General Tire or 3 GenCorp, the successor, ever actually physically 4 received that conversion bulletin. All you know 5 is it went out with your letter, correct? 6 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. He 7 didn't say that. 8 A. I only can say that I am confident it went out. 9 I can't say that it went out. I don't physically 10 recall . 11 Q. You didn't physically put it in the envelope and 12 drop it -- _ 13 A. I can't physically recall. I don't know whether, 14 it's very possible I could have put it in the 15 envelope. I can't physically recall doing it, 16 mentally recall. 17 Q. When Monsanto withdrew FR-1 from the market, it 18 had another product that could be substituted for 19 it called Therminol 66, correct? 20 A. Yes, sir . - 2 1 Q. To your knowledge, could Therminol 66 be mixed 22 with FR-1? 23 A. You could mix it, but it would be an 24 unsatisfactory mixer. It would not perform 25 right. You're liable to get corrosion problems WATER PCB-00038674 53 1 and that defeated the purpose of a conversion. 2 Q. To your knowledge were there any other fluids 3 available after the withdrawal of FR-1 from the 4 market ? 5 A. From Monsanto? 6 Q. Well, first of all from Monsanto which could be 7 mixed with FR-1 and still provide, mixed with 8 FR-1 for use in a heat transfer oil system? 9 A. I have no knowledge. 10 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 11 A. Excuse me. 12 MR. OCCHIPINTI: That's all right. 13 A. I have no idea . 14 Q. You have no knowledge if there is anything else 15 from Monsanto? 16 A. For the application as you're describing it? 17 Q. Yes. Do you have any knowledge as to whether 18 there were any other manufacturers who provided, 19 who sold other products which could be mixed with 20 FR-1 in a heat transfer oil system? 2 1 A. I have no knowledge of that at all, no. 22 23 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 5, one-page 24 April 4, 1972 Roder letter to Ransford, was 25 marked for purposes of identification.) WATER PCB-00038675 54 1 2 Q. Handing you, Mr. Gann, what's been marked Exhibit 3 5, I would ask you if you'd take a look at that 4 document and also direct your attention to the 5 upper right-hand corner after the bcc indication 6 .up there. 7 First of all, do you recall ever receiving a 8 copy of this document? 9 A. Not specifically. 10 Q. The letters at the top appear to be PWG? 11 A . I agree. 12 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that you did 13 not receive a copy of this document? 14 A. I agree with your statement. I have no reason 15 not . 16 Q. There is a reference in here to a product we've 17 talked about several times. MCS-681? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. Does this at all help refresh your recollection 20 as to what that product was? 2 1 A. All I-can say is you're educating me. I could 22 not have come up with that alone. 23 Q. I'm not trying to educate you. I'm trying to jog 24 your memory. 25 A. I would not have come up with this and I had WATER PCB-00038676 55 1 forgotten all about this. 2 Q. Well, does that mean you've now remembered it? 3 A. I had not remembered MCS-681 until you brought 4 the subject up. Used as a heat transfer as an 5 alternate to Therminol 55, I would not have 6 remembered that at all. I don't remember that. 7 Q. Oh, you don't remember it? 8 A. No. I just don't remember that at all. 9 Q. Okay. 10 11 (Thereupon, a recess was had.) 12 13 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Pam has reminded me 14 that we have not entered into an out-of-town 15 court reporter stipulation. 16 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Pam and her court 17 reporting firm are welcome at any of my 18 depositions in this case anywhere. 19 MR. CHAMBERS: We don't object to 20 the use of an out-of-state court reporter. 2 1 MR. DUCHOWICZ: We can all agree. 22 MR. OCCHIPINTI: That's fine. 23 Q. Mr. Gann, as of September 21st of '72 and again 24 directing your attention to Exhibit 4, which 25 you've already I believe reviewed and if you want WATER PCB-00038677 56 1 to take a look at it again, please do; but as of 2 that date, had, to your knowledge, had the 3 conversion of the system at the Toledo plant been 4 completed? 5 A. I have no way of knowing that. 6 2. Why don't you take a look at Exhibit 4 and see if 7 that helps refresh your recollection as to 8 whether there was anything yet to be done with 9 respect to the conversion of that system as of 10 September 21st of '72. 11 A. Can you repeat your question? 12 Q. Okay. As of the date of your letter, September 13 21st of '72, had the heat transfer oil system at 14 the Toledo plant, had the conversion of that 15 system been completed? 16 A. This letter indicates it had not been completed. 17 Q. Is that your best recollection as you sit here 18 today having reviewed -- 19 A. I can't, I have to review the letter. I cannot 20 recollect the occasion. 2 1 . What -in that letter indicates to you that the 22 conversion had not been completed as of that 23 date ? 24 A. The statement, "I suggest immediate and complete 25 drain of your system, a thorough flush with a WATER PCB-00038678 1 nonPCB fluid i.e. (Therminol 55) and a refill 2 with fresh, nonPCB heat transfer fluid (rather 3 than diluting on the fly)." 4 What did you mean when you said diluting on the 5 fly, if you recall? 6 Adding a nonPCB fluid as he is operating, which 7 we've discussed that although the fluids may be 8 compatible and as a later sentence indicates, I, 9 well, the previous indicates, too, that you can 10 get acids forming in sludge and fouling up the 11 heat exchange system, so he was trying to 12 apparently add fluid to maintain operating level 13 of heat transfer agent. 14 To your knowledge, could the mixing of fluids as 15 described in your letter also result in increased 16 leakage from the system? 17 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 18 Object on the basis there is no foundation 19 for that question. 20 A. May I answer? 2 1 Yes, sir. And again I'm referring to the top 22 paragraph of Page 2? 23 It is, it would be, topping off is not the way to 24 go. We do not recommend adding any fluid to FR, 25 at that time. It was done in an emergency WATER PCB-00038679 58 1 situation, but as we explained in the letter, it 2 can cause acid forming problems. 3 Q. Did it also form - 4 A . Sealing. 5 Q. Could it also result in seal and rotary joint 6 leaks as referred to in the top paragraph of Page 7 2? 8 A. Apparently so, yes. 9 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm going to 10 object. You're mixing two different things 11 there. One you're talking about mixing of 12 the two oils as resulting in an experience 13 of seal and rotary joint leaks and the other 14 one is the existence of chloride, iron 15 chloride salts in the system as causing seal 16 and rotary joint leaks. 17 Now, unless those two things are 18 synonymous, I mean your question implies 19 that and I don't think that's proper, but 20 perhaps you should ask the witness. 2 1 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Okay. Maybe we can 22 clarify it. 23 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Do you see what my 24 concern is? 25 Yes. I can see your concern. WATER PCB-00038680 59 1 Let's look at that top paragraph on Page 2, 2 first where it indicates or where the letter 3 states, "As discussed, you may have considerable 4 iron chloride salts in your system." 5 What would be the source of iron chloride 6 salts ? 7 A. Probably from the breakdown of the PCB in the 8 system particularly in the presence of another 9 fluid in there. 10 Q. Another fluid such as? 11 A. Therminol 55. That's a supposition on my part. 12 I can't say exactly where these iron chlorides 13 would come from, but the iron chlorides would be 14 present in a long-run operation with PCBs . The 15 extent, I wouldn't know the extent of them. 16 Q. Okay. Maybe you've got two different things 17 here . 18 One, is it your testimony that the mixing of 19 FR-1, a PCB heat transfer oil, with Therminol 55 20 could result in there being iron chloride salts? 2 1 A. No, I don't think I could say that. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I'm not that knowledgeable today. I can't recall 24 the conditions in which the chloride salts form, 25 whether it's from materials like 55 being in the WATER PCB-00038681 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. 10 11 12 13 14 A. 15 16 17 18 19 Q. 20 2 1 A. 22 Q. 23 24 25 system with this or whether it's from the use of PCB and something else gets in there. I can't come out and say today. I don't recall what it is that causes a formation of the salts. See, what I knew back then, I'm pretty positive about; but what I know today, I'm having a hard time recalling what I knew back then, if that makes sense. Right. You also said something relating to - strike that. You indicated that somehow a breakdown of PCBs in the system could result in iron chloride salts? I'm, that's a speculation. I don't know. I'm not qualified today really to say what, where the iron salts could come from. I'm, I think I was reasonably qualified back 20 years ago, but by God, I can't put that together right now. There is a reference in this letter to a sludge condition? Yes. To your knowledge, what could cause a sludge condition in a heat transfer oil system? MR. OCCHIPINTI: Jerry, could you tell me where that reference is, please? WATER PCB-00038682 61 1 MR. DUCHOWICZ: The third paragraph 2 down there? 3 MR. OCCHIPINTI: On the first page? 4 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Yes. Where it says, 5 "you may find additional cleaning 6 necessary." 7 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Okay. I'm sorry, I 8 got it. Go ahead. 9 I'm the wrong guy for you to nail on this. I 10 cannot say for certainty what causes sludge. 11 . MR. OCCHIPINTI: Well, is your 12 question how is it used here or generally 13 how can a sludge condition be caused in a 14 system like this? 15 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Generally.. 16 A. Generally, I don't think I'm qualified to answer 17 that. It's not that I don't want to answer it, I 18 don't think I'm qualified. It would be 19 speculation today as to how sludge formed. 20 Q. Or how sludge can form in a heat transfer oil 21 system? 22 A. Or how sludge can form. I don't know, for 23 example, if water gets into the system whether 24 that would help cause sludge, whether air got in 25 the system, whether that helps cause sludge or WATER PCB-00038683 62 1 whether some other heat transfer fluid got into 2 the system, if that helped cause sludge. I'm not 3 able to or qualified to comment on that. 4 5 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 6, 6 three-page October 9, 1972 Gann letter to Captain 7 of the Port Office, was marked for purposes of 8 identification.) 9 10 Mr. Gann, handing you what's been marked Exhibit 11 6, first of all I'd ask if you would review that 12 document and ask if you recall ever seeing it 13 before? 14 I think this was one of the documents I reviewed 15 with -- . 16 Other than what you may have seen as documents in 17 the last several days. Do you recall seeing it 18 before then? 19 I can't recall writing the document, but I would 20 have expected, since it's got my name on here and 2 1 the nature of the document, that I must have 22 written it. 23 There is certain handwriting on the bottom of the 24 second page and the third page of this document? 25 That looks like my handwriting. WATER PCB-00038684 63 1 Q. First of all, would you review this document and 2 I'd ask you if it helps refresh your recollection 3 as to being made aware ever of a spill or release 4 of any Therminol at the Toledo plant during the 5 conversion process? 6 A. I cannot recall the phone call specifically. 7 Q. The question, though, is does this help refresh 8 your recollection of having been informed in any 9 way that there had been a spill or a release of 10 Therminol at the plant during the conversion 11 process ? 12 A. Was this during it? 13 Q. Well, you have to review the entire thing to be 14 able to determine it. I don't want to tell you 15 whether it is or it isn't. 16 A. It's a spill. I do not know when, what the 17 occasion was except by reading the letter and 18 maybe it will help, but I don't recall. This is 19 my problem. I can't recall the specifics. 20 Q. Why don't you read the letter and then, in full 2 1 and then let me see if it refreshes your 22 recollection. And just to interrupt you a 23 second, it might be more helpful for us all if 24 once you would get to the handwritten portion, 25 you would read that out loud to us because we all WATER PCB-00038685 64 1 might want to know what is written. 2 . My note on Page 2, Item 2, B and C, I believe it 3 reads, "sounds like," I can't read the next two 4 words, but "must be T-55." 5 2. Would that be fluid? 6 k. I think that word is must. 7 2. No. The second line? 8 k. Oh, it could be fluid, yes, that second line 9 could be fluid. I can't figure that out. I sure 10 can't figure out the next. 11 2. Okay. Why don't you go down to the bottom? 12 k. Okay. Well, it could be, this is speculation, 13 received. Speculation, "Sounds like fluid 14 received must be T-55." 15 2- Okay. Let's go down to the bottom. 16 k. Dated 10/10/72. "Richard," I can't figure out 17 the name, "called General," which I -- "General 18 Tire to confirm which fluid was involved in the 19 spill. He confirmed it was T-55 and that PCB was 20 probably not involved. He appreciated our 21 follow-up," signed P. Gann, 10/10/72. 22 2. How about the next page? 23 A. Dated, the next page noted is dated 10/11/72. 24 "Mr. Edward Noble," phone number given. "EPA, 25 Ohio District called for description." I can't WATER PCB-00038686 65 1 see the next word. "Toxicity info on T-55, which 2 is what General Tire spilled. I read off data 3 from T-55 bulletin and medical department 4 toxicity," and I can't figure out the next word. 5 "Told Noble to call Papa George for any 6 other information. Noble felt no real problem on 7 spill. " 8 The next words are illegible. 9 "Both sides of bank coated and some may 10 have sunk." Parentheses, "looks like PCBs," end 11 of parentheses. And I can't figure out the rest 12 of the sentence. Although the word decision 13 appears present and then, "Coast Guard reported 14 spill to EPA Cleveland." 15 . The entry you read where it said parentheses 16 PCBs, do you know what that is in reference to, 17 or do you recall what that was in reference to? 18 . No. No. I wish I could read the rest. And some 19 may have sunk, some may have sunk. Well, see, 20 PCB is apparent, but can you figure out if that 21 is a B or not, BS? I don't know and I do not 22 recall and this doesn't help me at all as to 23 where that arrived or that thought came from. 24 . Okay. Let's go back to Exhibit 3, which was the 25 original log notes or whatever you referred to WATER PCB-00038687 66 1 them as? 2 Yes, sir. 3 And go on to the second page of that document 4 starting with the date entry there. 5 First of all, is that your handwriting? 6 It looks like my handwriting. I didn't put my 7 signature on it. It looks like my handwriting. 8 Could you read that into the record for me? 9 10/17/72. Item one, "per Paton's suggestion, 10 Gann called General Tire (Bob Ransford) to advise 11 them the coast guard had contacted us. I read 12 the letter portion of my October," and I_ can't 13 figure the date, "1972 letter to captain of the 14 Port Office." 15 Item 2, Ransford said they were trying to 16 keep the flush sludge out of the storage tank and 17 were filling drums. Some fluid spilled on the 18 floor which ran into sump. Unfortunately, sump 19 pump went directly to the sewer. Modification 20 now made to prevent-sump from direct dump to the 21 sewer: "to sewer. " The word the is not in 22 there. 23 Item 3, "Therminol spill was actually flush 24 fluid and therefore probably contained some 25 PCB . " WATER PCB-00038688 67 1 . First of all, does that refresh your recollection 2 of ever having been informed as to the course of 3 any oil release or spill at the Toledo plant? 4 A. You're asking me can I recall a conversation with 5 someone on this issue? 6 . Right. Not necessarily identifying who told you 7 or - 8 A. I can't recall, I'm sorry, I cannot recall 9 conversations or communications on this issue. 10 It's well documented, but I can't recall mentally 11 specific, you know, what happened back at that 12 time . 13 Q. But at least Page 2 of Exhibit 3 is a note 14 written by you, correct? 15 A. I believe it's a note written by me, correct. 16 Q. And written by you on or about the date that it 17 bears, October 17th of '72? 18 . I would think it would have been written almost, 19 well, it's written on that date. 20 Q. And was that, was what you wrote there accurate 2 1 to the best of your knowledge at the time that it 22 was written? 23 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Objection. 24 A. Yes. Excuse me. 25 Q. That's okay. He's just making his objection for WATER PCB-00038689 68 1 the record. 2 Yes . I think it was as accurate as I knew at the 3 t ime . 4 And as you sit here today, is there anything, as 5 you sit here today and having read that 6 statement, that has not helped refresh your 7 recollection as to the events stated therein, has 8 it? 9 You're correct. I cannot recall a communication 10 involving this. 11 Let me just ask, I'd like to ask you a few 12 questions about some of the comments there just 13 to be more specific, as opposed to a general 14 blanket you don't recall anything. 15 There is a reference to a modification being 16 made to prevent the sump from direct dump into 17 sewer. Do you see that? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Just above the Number 3 entry? 20 A. Yes, right. 21 Q. Do you recall ever being told about any 22 modifications being made in the sump system at 23 the Toledo plant? 24 A. I cannot recall the 1972 involvement of myself 25 there. I only can read what I had written there. WATER PCB-00038690 69 1 Okay. And do you have any recollection of 2 Mr. Ransford relating to you as set forth in this 3 document the manner in which a spill purportedly 4 took place? 5 MR. CHAMBERS: You'll need to speak 6 up for the benefit of the court reporter. 7 I'm sorry. 8 That's okay. We're all waiting for the words. 9 I'm not on TV. 10 I do not recall the actual conversation with 11 Mr. Rans ford. 12 Q. This Exhibit 3, was this listed as conversion 13 action, in the normal course of your role in the 14 withdrawal of FR-1 and conversions of systems, 15 was a document such as a conversion action, I'll 16 call it a memo, prepared in the ordinary course 17 of your business? 18 A. Yes. Yes . 19 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Objection. Object 20 to form. 2 1 A. Yes. This was a standard procedure that we used 22 to communicate, to log our commentary. 23 Q. And at the time that documents such as Exhibit 3 24 were prepared, was it the -- strike that. 25 Was Exhibit 3 or at least the entries in WATER PCB-00038691 70 1 Exhibit 3 which bear your signature, was that 2 prepared in the ordinary course of business of 3 Monsanto with respect to your role in the 4 conversion process? 5 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 6 Objection on the basis that's been asked and 7 answered. And I also object to those 8 entries that have not been written by this 9 witne s s. 10 Q. You can answer. 1 1 A. I can answer? 12 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Yes. . 13 Q. He's your attorney here. 14 MR. CHAMBERS: Unless I tell you or 15 instruct you not to answer something, you 16 should go ahead and answer if you're able. 17 Q. Yes. Allow the person making the objection to 18 finish their objection and then go ahead. 19 Do you recall what the question was? 20 A. You're asking is this typical of the way we 2 1 operated, this kind of form, did we use this kind 22 of form? 23 Q. No. My question is was Exhibit 3 prepared in the 24 ordinary course of your employment at Monsanto? 25 A. I believe so. WATER PCB-00038692 71 1 . And I believe you've already stated this; but at 2 the time this was prepared, it was the custom and 3 practice of Monsanto to have documents such as 4 Exhibit 3, the conversion action, prepared as 5 part of the process of doing these conversions, 6 correct? 7 . Yes . 8 MR. OCCHIPINTI: \ Object to form. 9 Asked and answered. 10 ." As you sit here today, do you have any 11 recollection or knowledge as to what General Tire 12 did with the FR-1 material which was drained from 13 its heat transfer oil system? 14 . I have no recollection of that specific. 15 . Same question with respect to any flushing 16 material which may or may not have been used in 17 the system. 18 Are you aware of what General Tire did with 19 any flushing material which was used to clean the 20 system? 21 . I have no recollection of that. The only thing I 22 can do is refer back to the documents we've 23 looked at to help, but I don't recall. I can't 24 recall a specific incident. 25 . Okay. From the documents at least that you've WATER PCB-00038693 72 1 reviewed so far today, did you see anything in 2 there which memorializes what was done with the 3 FR-1 or flushing material which was removed from 4 the- heat transfer oil system? 5 MR. OCCHIPINTI: The exhibits he's 6 looked at today or the documents he looked 7 at before the deposition? 8 MR. DUCHOWICZ: The documents either 9 that he's looked at today or prior. 10 A. I don't know if I've seen documents that shows a 11 return of the fluids to Monsanto. 12 Q. Do you recall seeing any documents referring to 13 any other disposition of the fluids from the heat 14 transfer oil system at the Toledo plant other 15 than a return to Monsanto? 16 A. I don't know that I've seen those documents 17 today. I've seen some documents that look like 18 documents referring to a return of fluids. I 19 don't know if they were from, I guess they were 20 from General Tire, but that would be the, I'd 2 1 have to go by documents to tell me whether or not 22 they had returned it. 23 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Just for the record, 24 Mr. Chambers, has Mr. Gann been provided 25 with any documents other than copies of WATER PCB-00038694 73 1 documents which have already been produced 2 to all parties in this case. 3 MR. CHAMBERS: No. And that's a 4 good point. We can clear that up. 5 The record should reflect that I was able to 6 meet with Mr. Gann prior to his deposition 7 and provide him with some copies of 8 documents that have been produced to all the 9 parties in this case to give him an 10 opportunity to refresh his recollection. 11 The statements that he's made earlier about 12 seeing documents relate to his review of 13 those items -- 14 . Yes . 15 MR. CHAMBERS: -- in my 16 understanding. . 17 A. That is correct. 18 MR. CHAMBERS: But he has not been 19 provided with anything by me that has not 20 also been provided to all the lawyers here 2 1 at the deposition. 22 Q. Let's go back to Exhibit 6, the letter dated 23 October 9th of '72. 24 A. Yes . 25 Q. The section under, first of all, with respect to WATER PCB-00038695 74 1 the entire document, was this letter, was the 2 information contained in this letter true and 3 accurate to the best of your knowledge at the 4 time you wrote this letter? 5 I have no way, I don't know how to answer that. 6 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Same objection as 7 before. 8 I only try to write what is true and accurate 9 whenever I do it and I'm sure it was, my concept 10 of truth and accuracy at that time was as it is 11 today. I try to be as truthful as I can and 12 accurate. - 13 Q. So the answer is yes? 14 A. I guess it's yes; but I, again, I can't recall 15 physically writing the letter. That's my 16 problem. 17 Q. I understand that. I think we all do. I wish I 18 could remember letters I wrote last week, let 19 alone 20 years ago. 20 Under note carbonees. Paragraph 4? 2 1 A . Yes. - 22 Q. Under C, there is reference to September 18, '72 23 shipped one, looks like one 3 , 000-ga11on? 24 A. One 3,000-gallon trailer of Therminol 55. 25 Conversion targeted for October. WATER PCB-00038696 75 1 Q. Does that at all help refresh your recollection 2 as to whether the conversion of the system had 3 been completed as of, before October of 1972? 4 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Now you're asking 5 6 7 8 9 10 A. 11 12 13 him a different date. MR. DUCHOWICZ: I know, because the other letter had a specific date on it. This says the conversion targeted for October. I'm asking him as of October 1st. I can only go with what it says here. Again, I can't recall the conversations. I only can go by what we documented and it says conversion is targeted for October. 14 15 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 7, one-page 16 handwritten Conversion Action, was marked for 17 purposes of identification.) 18 19 Q. Mr. Gann, handing you what's been marked Exhibit 20 7, first of all, do you recognize that as being 2 1 your handwriting under Section 3, progress of 22 conversion? 23 A. It looks like my handwriting. 24 Q. And where it says initiated by, is that your 25 signature or initial? WATER PCB-00038697 76 1 A . That's not my signature. I wrote just my last 2 name . 3 Q Directing your attention to under the first date, 4 I c-an't tell if that's 1/18? 5 A . 1/19/72 is the way I'd read it. It looks like a 6 9 to me rather than an 8. 7 Q I wasn't sure if that was a 10/18 as opposed to a 8 1 as to the other dates, but irrespective - 9 A . Are you referring to the top entry? 10 Q. Yes . 11 A . It sure looks like a 1/19 to me and that's all I 12 can go by. - 13 Q. Okay. Directing your attention to the second 14 entry, the Number 2, could you read that for us? 15 A . Their Toledo and -- 16 Q. Bolta? 17 A . And then I have in a circle, arrow to it, is it, 18 looks like Lawrence, Massachusetts plant 19 contaminated their FR with T-55. Therefore he 20 does not want to use their FR drain as originally 21 plann ed. You want me to read the whole thing? 22 Q. No. That's all. With respect to that, does that 23 help refresh your recollection as to whether the 24 heat transfer fluid in the heat transfer oil 25 system at Toledo was ever contaminated by a mix WATER PCB-00038698 77 1 of FR with T-5 5 ? 2 Not recollection of. I have to rely a hundred 3 percent on this memo. 4 Q. Now, Exhibit 7 is on a document at least labeled 5 conversion action. Was this document prepared in 6 the ordinary course of Monsanto's business? 7 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to form. 8 I would expect so. 9 Q. It was prepared by you as part of the - 10 It appears that I wrote this, yes, sir. 11 Q. Let me finish the question. 12 Excuse me. 13 Q. So we don't have it sort of broken up. 14 Okay . 15 Q. Was this document prepared by you as part of the 16 conversion process of whatever plant or facility 17 this involves? 18 A . Yes . 19 Q. And to your knowledge, was Entry Number 2 made by 20 you true and accurate at the time that you made 2 1 it? 22 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Again, I object. 23 The witness said he doesn't remember making 24 the entry. 25 A. As far as I know. WATER PCB-00038699 78 1 Q. And having sat here and read through that, you 2 have no recollection of that event or those 3 facts, do you? 4 A. Not as a specific in my mind, no, sir. 5 Q. During the conversion process, did your 6 responsibilities involve the review or handling 7 of the sales documents for either the replacement 8 heat transfer oil fluids or original heat 9 transfer oil fluids from Monsanto? 10 A. I'm not sure I follow you. 11 Q. Okay. If someone was making a conversion? 12 A. Yes . 13 Q. And Monsanto was providing the materials for the 14 conversion, since you were overseeing the 15 conversion process, did you have, as part of your 16 responsibilities, did you review or see the sales 17 documentation, invoices? 18 A. I believe I did. Whether I saw all of them, I do 19 not know. 20 Q. Prior to the conversion process taking place, 2 1 prior"to your involvement with the conversion 22 process, did you have, did your responsibilities 2 3 at Monsanto at all involve heat transfer oil 24 fluids? 25 A. No. You're referring to prior to my assignment WATER PCB-00038700 79 1 to this conversion project. No. 2 3 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 8, one-page 4 September 18, 1972 Monsanto invoice to 5 Textileather, was marked for purposes of 6 identification.) 7 8 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 9, one-page 9 April 5, 1982 Monsanto invoice to Textileather, 10 was marked for purposes of identification.) 11 12 13 14 Handing you, Mr. Gann, documents which have been marked as Exhibits 8 and 9, asking you first of all, if you recognize what those documents are? 15 I recognize these as invoices that Monsanto 16 issues on their sales of Therminol. 17 Q. Are these invoices for sales of Therminol 55 to 18 the Toledo facility for General Tire? 19 I would interpret these as being sold to General 20 Tire, Toledo. 2 1 Q. Are these documents, to your knowledge, prepared 22 by Monsanto in the ordinary course of its 23 busines s ? 24 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm going to 25 object. This is an inappropriate question WATER PCB-00038701 80 1 for this witness. He said he wasn't 2 involved with the sale of this stuff or 3 involved with heat transfer oil at all prior 4 to this special project. 5 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Well, this is during 6 the special project. The dates I believe 7 will so bear. 8 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Well, you didn't 9 ask him though if he was involved in the 10 sale though during that period. 11 MR. DUCHOWICZ: I've already asked 12 him if during the course of his involvement 13 in the conversion process, if he would 14 receive and review copies of the sales 15 documents for the materials being sold by 16 Monsanto for the conversion. 17 MR. OCCHIPINTI: That's not your 18 question, though. Your question was whether 19 these were prepared in the ordinary course 20 of business; and unless I hear an answer 2 1 that this witness prepared invoices, that's 22 an inappropriate question for this witness. 23 MR. DUCHOWICZ: I don't think so, 24 but your objection is noted. 25 MR. OCCHIPINTI: But you're wrong. WATER PCB-00038702 81 1 You don't think so. Of course it's an 2 improper question. You're asking him about 3 the preparation of a document. Review and 4 receive is not the same thing, so that's an 5 inappropriate question and I'm not going to 6 allow you to authenticate these invoices 7 through this witness. 8 Q. Fine. Can you answer the question, Mr. Gann? 9 A.. Are these typical Monsanto invoices? 10 Q. Yes, are these documents which were prepared in 11 the ordinary course of Monsanto's business? 12 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Same objection. 13 A. I do not know whether they're prepared in the 14 ordinary course. These appear to me to be 15 documents that were used or copies of documents 16 for, that Monsanto would use. I'm not sure I'm 17 answering your question. 18 Q. Well, to your knowledge, did Monsanto prepare 19 documents such as Exhibits 8 and 9 in the 20 ordinary course of its business? 21 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Again same 22 objection. Now you're asking him generally 23 not specifically about these two specific 24 exhibits, but it's the same objection as 25 before, anyway, just noting that WATER PCB-00038703 82 1 dif ference. 2 This is what I recollect as being typical of 3 Monsanto's invoices. 4 You don't specifically recall ever seeing these 5 documents, do you? 6 No, not specific. 7 Q. Earlier you indicated, much earlier that there 8 were a couple of different means, I believe, of 9 communicating with customers with respect to the 10 withdrawal of a product from the, withdrawal of 11 FR-1 from the market. Do you recall that general 12 testimony? 13 A. Meetings? 14 Q. No. Various different means? 15 A. Oh, means, excuse me. . 16 Q. By which Monsanto communicated with its customers 17 with respect to this withdrawal, correct? 18 |A. Yes. 19 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Object to the 20 form. I think he mentioned two. 21 Q. Let me hand you what would be marked as Exhibit 22 10 . 23 24 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 10, 25 one-page May 25, 1972 Paton letter to Dear Sir, WATER PCB-00038704 83 1 was marked for purposes of identification.) 2 3 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 11, eight 4 pages December 15, 1971 Bergen letter to Dear Sir 5 with attachments, was marked for purposes of 6 identification.) 7 8 Q. Mr. Gann, I'm going to first refer to Exhibit 11, 9 if you will. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. The larger of the two in quantity of pages. 12 First of all, do you recognize what Exhibit 13 11 is? 14 A. It appears to be a notification on Monsanto 15 letterhead that Howard Bergen sent out to 16 Monsanto Therminol FR customers. 17 Q. To your knowledge, when the conversion process - 18 strike that . 19 When the withdrawal of the product, of FR-1 20 from the market was taking place, was Monsanto 2 1 using a form letter to all of its customers with 22 respect to the decision to withdraw that product? 23 A. I don't know that I have any knowledge of that 24 kind of statement. 25 This letter -- WATER PCB-00038705 84 1 . Exhibit 11? 2 . Exhibit 11 is, it appears to me the type of 3 letter, if not the letter that was sent out to 4 all known Monsanto FR customers. 5 Q. To your knowledge, who was Howard Bergen? Strike 6 that . 7 What was Mr. Bergen's role, if any, with 8 respect to the withdrawal of FR-1 from the 9 market ? 10 I really don't know. I reported to Cumming Paton 11 and my contacts with Mr. Bergen were very 12 infrequent.. I think I knew who he was but I 13 don't think I was in, I'm not even sure I was in 14 the meeting with him. 15 MR. OCCHIPINTI: He's got quite a 16 signature, too. 17 A. Oh, I like his signature. I'm impressed with 18 Cumming. 19 Q. To your knowledge, was a copy of Exhibit 11 sent 20 to all Monsanto's customers who had been using 2 1 FR-1? ~ 22 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm going to 23 object . 24 A. I can now recollect something. 25 Q. Please tell us what you recollect. WATER PCB-00038706 85 1 A. Relative to the mailings of this kind of 2 information, I can't say it was to this specific 3 but -- 4 MR. CHAMBERS: Let the record show 5 he's referring to Exhibit 11. 6 Exhibit 11, referring to Exhibit 11, this is, I 7 recollect mailings going out by either return 8 receipt or registered. There was some logging 9 procedure that we would receive back from the 10 addressee that that had been received. 11 These went out, and I do not recollect the 12 exact post office form that we were using, but it 13 was a form to which we had a registered, I won't 14 say a registered letter because I do not know 15 this, but I do recall, I can recall this: That 16 these letters were sent out in a method that we 17 could track whether or not that person had 18 received the letter. 19 Okay. Going back to Exhibit 11, and I don't want 20 to mischaracterize your testimony. I'm sure 2 1 Mr. Occhipinti will jump in if I have; or if you 22 recognize it as being inaccurate, please so 23 state, but is it your testimony that you recall 24 that a copy of what has been marked Exhibit 11 25 was sent to all customers of Monsanto who had WATER PCB-00038707 86 1 used FR-1? 2 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm going to 3 object, as you anticipated. I'm going to 4 - object for several reasons. First of all, 5 the question has been asked and answered. 6 He said it was the type of letter sent. He 7 couldn't say if this was the letter sent. 8 Second- of all, I don't know if you've 9 brought this to the witness' attention, that 10 there is an article attached to this letter 11 and you've made it a part of the exhibit so 12 I think you should be clear on that-and 13 that's a different question. So are you 14 referring just to the first two pages of it 15 or everything that you've made as one 16 17 |Q . exhibit ? Okay. For the purposes of this question, 18 Mr. Gann, I am just referring to the two-page 19 text, the first two pages of Exhibit 11, not 20 21 |A . what's been attached. At the bottom of the second page, it does have 22 the word attachment, but it does not identify 23 what was attached. 24 2. Right. Back to the original question, is it your 25 recollection that a copy of what has been marked WATER PCB-00038708 87 1 Exhibit 11 was sent to all customers of Monsanto 2 3 |A. who had used FR-1? I cannot recollect this specific letter. I do 4 recollect that this kind of communication, this 5 kind of letter went out to all the customers. 6 |Q. When you say this kind of letter, what do you 7 mean? 8 |A. Alerting the customer to, now this one here, on 9 Item 11, Exhibit 11, is a formal notification to 10 the customer that Monsanto will no longer sell 11 Therminol FR series of heat transfer and it goes 12 on as to why. 13 I just can't mentally recall that this 14 specific letter was the one that I saw sent out 15 but I know we sent notification letters out. 16 Q. Setting forth the reasons why FR-1 was being 17 withdrawn? 18 A. Yes, sir. That Monsanto was withdrawing it and 19 giving a reason for it. 20 Q. And that reason being the possible -- strike 21 that. That reason being the presence of PCBs in 22 the material? 23 A. Therminol FR series. I'll, let me read this 24 sentence. Therminol FR series of fluids contain 25 polychlorinated biphenyls, PCBs, as we have WATER PCB-00038709 88 1 previously advised you. Previously, I do not 2 know the previously, studies indicate PCBs may be 3 accumulating in the environment, so this is part 4 of the explanation as to why. 5 Q. And that was the explanation which was provided, 6 to your knowledge, to all customers of Monsanto? 7 Yes, sir. 8 Q. Directing your attention back to Exhibit Number 9 10, Mr. Cumming Paton's signature. 10 To your knowledge, was a copy, first of all, 11 do you recognize what this document is? 12 A. Yes. I recognize it. I'm not saying I can 13 recall my time in 20 years ago of reading this, 14 but I sure recognize it. And it is alerting the 15 customers after July 1, '72 we will, until 16 further notice, continue to make, to, well, make 17 it available, the incineration service. Up until 18 that time, Monsanto was covering all costs for 19 return and incineration and they're putting our 20 customers on notice that if they haven't 2 1 converted, that the offer of Monsanto to 22 incinerate at Monsanto's cost was terminated. 23 Q. I'm going to try one, I won't guarantee one last 24 time, but I want to direct your attention to the 25 paragraph marked Number 1 in the center there, WATER PCB-00038710 89 1 Section C? 2 Yes . 3 Does that help refresh your recollection as to 4 that particular product, MCS-681? 5 No, it doesn't., darn it. It should. It is not 6 there. 7 That's okay. I just noticed it and I figured why 8 not. 9 MR. OCCHIPINTI: You'll be thinking 10 about it for days. 11 2. You can call somebody up after the deposition. 12 This is going to regurgitate and regurgitate. 13 The number now looks very familiar. I'll try to 14 work on the composition of it and I had obviously 15 forgotten all about its existence. 16 17 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 12, 18 two-page February 24, 1972 Roder letter to Paton, 19 was marked for purposes of identification.) 20 2 1 Q. Mr. Gann, we've handed you what's been marked 22 Exhibit 12 and you've had the opportunity to at 23 least review that document. First of all, I'd 24 like to ask you after you've reviewed it if you 25 recall ever seeing it? WATER PCB-00038711 90 1 I do not recall specifically having received this 2 but it has my name on the distribution. 3 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm sorry, Exhibit 4 - 12? 5 It's a trip report from Jim Roder. 6 Q. Was it normal practice back in February of '72 7 while this withdrawal was going on, to receive \ 8 trip reports from people involved directly in the 9 withdrawal? 10 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm going to object 11 to the form of the question. 12 A. I believe -- ~ 13 MR. DUCHOWICZ: So will I. 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Is that a 15 withdrawal of the question? 16 Q. That's a withdrawal of the question. 17 Back in February of '72, was it the custom 18 and practice for you to receive copies of trip 19 reports from people in the field who were 20 involved in the withdrawal of FR-1? 2 1 A. I believe I received trip reports from the field 22 if the FR issue was involved. 23 Q. And back in that period of time, back in February 24 of '72, were you working on any projects other 25 than the withdrawal of FR-1 from the market? WATER PCB-00038712 91 1 No. I was assigned a hundred percent on this one 2 job . 3 Q. Back at that period of time, were you familiar 4 with the different types of circulating pumps 5 which were used in heat transfer oil systems? 6 No. No, not specifically. 7 Q. Do you recall ever having any discussions with 8 Mr. Roder with respect to the conversion of FR-1 9 to a different material at the Toledo plant? 10 A. I do, excuse me, I do not recall conversations 11 with Jim. I can't recall any of my conversations 12 with Jim, and we talked a lot. 13 14 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 13, 15 one-page handwritten notes, was marked for 16 purposes of identification.) 17 18 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 14, 19 one-page "Status", was marked for purposes of 20 identification.) 21 22 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 15, 23 four-page September 13, 1972 handwritten notes, 24 was marked for purposes of identification.) 25 WATER PCB-00038713 92 1 . Let's start with Exhibit 13, Mr. Gann. 2 First of all, do you recognize any of the 3 handwriting on Exhibit 13? 4 . It "appears that all of this handwriting could be 5 mine . 6 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Are we talking 7 about 13 now? 8 A. Yes. Number 13 . X 9 2. Directing your attention to the lower portion of 10 that under the line - 11 A . Yes, sir. 12 2. -- which is right below Toledo, Ohio? 13 A. Yes. 14 2- Could you read that for us? 15 A. Someone reported spill. Good spot, is what it 16 appears to be, Ottawa River, I can't read the 17 next term. Little peninsula caught it in an 18 inlet. That's peculiar, a lousy way of spelling 19 soaked but, I think that says soaked up with, and 20 I recollect seeing someplace else, corn cobs. 2 1 Coast guard, I can't make out the rest, 22 something about pollution control. Who, looks 23 like, watched over the cleanup. 24 Disposition of corn cobs. General Tire 25 taking care of clean, and I cannot make out the WATER PCB-00038714 93 1 rest of the sentence. 2 2. Would you take a look at the top portion of the 3 first five lines? 4 A. Yes. 5 2. Looks like there is a reference there to a seal 6 went out? 7 A. Seal went out. The word looks close to pump. It 8 looks, I interpret this as meaning a pump seal 9 failure. 10 Q Do you recall being told at all about a pump seal 11 failure at the Toledo plant? 12 A I can't recall still, I can't recall any 13 conversations . 14 Let's look at Exhibit 14. 15 Do you recognize first of all what that 16 document is? 17 This is another form of a customer report that I 18 believe sales people make out. I'm not positive 19 about this . 20 2- Was this, did you in your job responsibilities 21 involving the withdrawal of FR-1 from the market, 22 did you, did that involve the reviewing or 23 preparation of reports such as Exhibit 14? 24 A. I don't recall preparing this kind of report. 25 2. Do you recall -- WATER PCB-00038715 94 1 A. But I just don't recall. 2 2. Do you recall if you received this type of 3 report ? 4 . I believe I would receive this kind of report. 5 Whether I received this specific report, I can't 6 recall. It strikes me as a field report. 7 2- Why is that? 8 A. Because it describes the system and it's got 9 sales history information on it. This is why, it 10 doesn't strike me as a report that I would 11 generate. 12 2- Do you recognize whose handwriting that -is? 13 A. No, I don't. 14 2. Let's go on to Number 15. 15 Do you recognize first of all what 15 is, 16 Exhibit 15? 17 This looks like my handwriting. 18 The entire document or just portions of it? 19 Well, let's see. Page 1 looks like my 20 handwriting. Page 2 looks like my handwriting. 21 Page -3 looks like my handwriting. Where in the 22 hell did you find these? 23 Page 4 looks like my handwriting. 24 Okay. Four pages of your handwriting. Okay. Do 25 you recall, do you recognize-- strike that. WATER PCB-00038716 95 1 2 A. Do you recall ever preparing - I don't recall writing this document. 3 Q. Could you take time and review that document and 4 I'll have a few hopefully guick questions for 5 you . 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. Did you look at all fours pages? 8 A. Okay. I've seen it. 9 Q. Does this, having reviewed this document, does 10 that help ref re sh your recollection as to any 11 12 A. leaks of heat transfer fluids at the Toledo site? I cannot recollect the occasion or the 13 conversation. 14 Q. Is this a, are these notes from a conversation 15 that you had? 16 A. It appears to me that the nature of my 17 handwriting and the number of pages involved 18 here, it strikes me that this is probably from a 19 conversation, presumably by phone with Bob 20 Rans ford. 2 1 Q. Do you know what Tolex refers to, when it says 22 General Tire Tolex at the top? 23 A. I want to say that's Toledo. 24 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Yes, I do, too. 25 Q. Okay. You're probably right. WATER PCB-00038717 96 1 |A . I am the type of person that leaves off letters 2 and verbs and sometimes adjectives in his 3 writing. That is why I had good secretaries to 4 complete that and this is not her writing. This 5 is mine. 6 Q. Does this document at all help refresh your 7 recollection of being informed of any leak of 8 heat transfer fluids in February of '72 at the 9 Toledo plant? 10 MR. OCCHIPINTI: When? 11 MR. DUCHOWICZ: September of '72. 12 . MR. OCCHIPINTI: You said something 13 else before . 14 Q. Okay. Let's start all over again. I'll withdraw 15 that. . 16 Does this document help refresh your 17 recollection of there, of having been informed of 18 any leak of any heat transfer fluids at the 19 Toledo plant in September of 1972? 20 A. It doesn't help my recollection. I cannot 2 1 remember the phone call, which I'm assuming this 22 is . 23 Q. This is the normal form that you would have kept 24 notes for phone calls? Is that it? 25 A. This is, I think, typical of, certainly at that WATER PCB-00038718 97 1 period of time, in September, that I would make 2 notes as I had the phone call. 3 Q. Okay. As you sit here today, have you -- strike 4 that. . 5 A. I'm impressed that my notes were kept. 6 Q. They must have thought it was important. 7 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'll ask you about \ 8 that . 9 A. They didn't throw anything I way, I guess. Gee, 10 I'm surprised. 11 Q. Was this document, were these, was this document 12 accurate at the time that it was prepared by, 13 were the facts supported in this document 14 accurate to the best of your knowledge at the 15 time you prepared it? . 16 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Objection. 17 A. To the best of my knowledge, this was what was in 18 my mind or what I heard, what I interpreted as 19 being said. 20 Q. And having reviewed Exhibit 15, you have no 2 1 recollection as to the facts set forth in Exhibit 22 15 as written by you? 23 A. I do not recall the conversation. 24 25 (Thereupon, a discussion was had off WATER PCB-00038719 98 1 the record.) 2 3 Q. During the withdrawal of FR-1, were customers 4 supplied with labels to place on material which 5 was being returned to Monsanto? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. In other words, used FR-1 - 8 A. We sent them labels. 9 10 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 16, 11 one-page label to Monsanto, was marked for 12 purposes of identification.) - 13 14 Q. Mr. Gann, handing you what's been marked Exhibit 15 16, I'd ask you if you recognize what that 16 document is? 17 A. The color is different. I don't recognize the 18 color. It's a Xerox, apparently, but this, I 19 20 21 could not sit down and draw what the labels looked like. All I know is that we sent them return" labels and this could be the, a copy of 22 one of those . 23 Q. So you can ' t - 24 A. I can't recall that specific of what those labels 25 looked like. WATER PCB-00038720 99 1 Q. To the best of your recollection, directing your 2 attention to the section on Exhibit 16 under the 3 words disposal only, where it says this product 4 contains polychlorinated biphenyls, did the 5 labels which were supplied to customers of 6 Monsanto for the return of FR-1 contain that 7 statement? 8 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I'm sorry. Can I 9 have the question back? 10 11 - (Thereupon, the requested portion of 12 the record was read by the Notary.) 13 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Well, didn't he 15 just say this was - 16 MR. DUCHOWICZ: He's already 17 indicated that he cannot specifically say 18 _ that this is a copy of the particular label 19 which was supplied to customers. 20 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Okay. 21 MR. DUCHOWICZ: I'm asking him 22 whether this particular statement on this 23 thing possibly in some other form, but those 24 words, that statement was on the return that 25 was - - WATER PCB-00038721 100 1 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Okay. 2 A. I cannot recall what information was on the 3 1abel . 4 Q. Do you recall ever seeing drums or containers of 5 virgin FR-1 at Monsanto? 6 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Asked and 7 answered. 8 MR. DUCHOWICZ: I'm talking about 9 the drums. I'm not talking about the fluid 10 itself. 11 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Oh, you're asking 12 about drums? - 13 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Right. 14 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Well, then I object 15 to the form, but go ahead. 16 A. Have I seen, can you repeat the question? 17 Q. Okay. Do you recall ever seeing drums of virgin 18 FR-1 while you were at Monsanto? 19 A. I don't believe I have. 20 Q. Do you recall ever seeing the labels, if any, 2 1 that were on the drums of FR-1? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. I'm a going to hand you what's to be marked 24 Exhibit 17. 25 WATER PCB-00038722 101 1 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 17, 2 one-page Therminol FR-1 label, was marked for 3 purposes of identification.) 4 5 Q. Handing you what's been marked Exhibit 17, and 6 other than possibly the color being different, do 7 you recognize that document? 8 I do not recognize this, no. I've seen the 9 label. I do not recall the label. 10 Q. Were customers of Monsanto -- were you going to 11 say something? 12 This says waste disposal. I'm not sure this is a 13 label that was put on. 14 Q. Exhibit 17? 15 A.. That's right. Okay. This must be -- well, I 16 remember seeing labels, but I sure can't recall 17 whether this specific one was a label. 18 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Okay. I will yield 19 the floor right now. I may have one or two more, 20 2 1 C R0~S S-EXAMINATION OF PAUL GANN 22 BY MS. REUSZE: 23 Q. Mr. Gann, my name is Debra Reusze and I represent 24 St. Paul in this matter. I have some follow-up 25 questions that I'd like to begin with. WATER PCB-00038723 102 1 Where did you receive your Bachelor of 2 Science degree from? 3 . Bachelor of Science in chemical engineering from 4 the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Michigan, 5 USA. Hopefully going to the Rose Bowl. 6 . And I think I'd like to delve a little more 7 deeply into your employment history within 8 Monsanto, if I may. 9 A. Yes. 10 2. Do you recall the first position that you had or 11 the title you were hired in with? 12 A. I was hired in at Dayton, Ohio as a research 13 engineer in 1947. 14 2. And can you tell me what types of assignments - 15 A. The very first assignment I had, this is not 16 confidential information, I don't think, was to 17 evaluate the catalyst from the styrene converters 18 of the Texas City plant that was involved in the 19 explosion in 1946, whenever they had the big 20 disaster down there. We were evaluating the 2 1 catalyst and my first assignment was involved in 22 evaluating the activity whether the catalyst had 23 the activity to do the job. 24 Q. I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you 25 mean by evaluating the activity? WATER PCB-00038724 103 1 A. Okay. To make styrene, you take ethyl benzene 2 and you dehydrogenate the hydrogen from the ethyl 3 group and you do that by having the material go 4 across a catalyst, a metal, a special formulated 5 metal that will cause the dehydrogenation to 6 occur. The yield from the ethyl benzene to the 7 dehydrogenated product at the conditions of 8 operation would indicate whether or not the 9 catalyst was doing its job and that's what I call 10 activity. If it was not doing its job, in other 11 words, if the yield was low, the catalyst would 12 not be very active. 13 If the yield was at expected figures, then 14 the catalyst was probably active. 15 Q. How long did you work on that project? 16 A. Probably a few months. 17 Q. Did you continue to be a research engineer? 18 A. I was a research engineer -- you don't want to 19 hear all the assignments. 20 MR. CHAMBERS: And I guess I would 2 1 like to interject at this point because, as 22 Mr. Gann has previously testified, his 23 involvement with the products at issue in 24 this case, as I understand it, the Therminol 25 line, was in the period that we've WATER PCB-00038725 104 1 discussed. 2 I don't guess I have any problem if you 3 want to explore in some general terms what 4 - his work experience is, but I would prefer 5 that we not take the time to wander through 6 in any detail what he did that didn't have 7 anything to do with PCB products. 8 Q. That would be my goal, to determine essentially 9 what positions or titles you generally held. 10 A. In -- 11 MR. CHAMBERS: In a general sense, 12 why don't you just run through them? 13 A. Okay. In Dayton, Ohio, I was basically a 14 research engineer on various kinds of projects. 15 Then I transferred to Springfield, Massachusetts 16 and I was a, oh, we were in a pilot operation, 17 small works operation, making polymer for the 18 Acrinal plant. 19 Q. Excuse me, could you please give me time periods 20 for this, if you recall, to the best of your - 2 1 A. Yes. "Dayton was '47 through '49. Springfield, 22 Massachusetts was from '49 through early '52. I 23 was in, and this was as a engineer making polymer 2 4 from Acrinal and then from '53, '52, it would be 25 1952 to '68 -- wait a minute. That's wrong. '52 WATER PCB-00038726 105 1 to '63, I'm in Decatur, Alabama on various jobs. 2 Who knows what the titles were. 3 Q. That's okay. 4 A. And technical, if you wish, technical liaison 5 between research development in the Acrinal 6 plant. I was quality control manager for the 7 Acrinal plant. I was purchasing agent, these are 8 different periods of time, not simultaneously, 9 purchasing agent doing, if you wish, long-range 10 purchasing primarily with the research 11 development people on products that we were 12 trying to, materials that we might want to use 13 for future materials for the fiber business. 14 From Decatur, I went to New York City which 15 was the headquarters of Chemstrand. Chemstrand, 16 I trust you know is a jointly-owned operation 17 between Monsanto and American Bristol at this 18 point, and in New York, I was, I don't recall the 19 title, I was involved in long-range planning and 20 eventually had a, I guess a manager title on a 2 1 coordinating effort between research, engineering 22 development and what we call applications 23 research which would be like a tech sales 24 capacity in other organizations. Then I became 25 director of nylon technology. WATER PCB-00038727 106 1 At what time? 2 Oh, let's see. In, we were in New York from '73 3 to '78 and therefore this should have been right 4 around '78. And there was a major reorganization 5 and I then was in St. Louis in '68, that same 6 year . 7 MR. CHAMBERS: Let me correct just 8 for a second. I think you may have mistaken 9 and talked about being in New York from '73 10 to '78. 11 Yes . 12 MR. CHAMBERS: Would that have been 13 '63 to '68? 14 A. You are correct. '63 to '68. Thank you, sir. 15 MR. CHAMBERS: You're doing real 16 well. Keep going. 17 A. Okay. '63 to '68 in New York. '68 to '73 I'm in 18 St. Louis on various assignments, the first being 19 with the astroturf program. I got involved in 20 quality control efforts there of the product. 21 Then a special task force assignment which I was 22 I guess manager of or something making a product 23 called Chemgrass which was a polyethylene rolled 24 product which you now see as doormats all 25 around. That was in the early development stages WATER PCB-00038728 107 1 of that product. 2 Then I was assigned as a task force manager 3 of the Disney Vican furniture product project 4 which made the plastic furniture for the Disney 5 World down here at Orlando. That was for the 6 rooms, not the restaurants. This was strictly in 7 the guest rooms. I believe I'm still in St. 8 Louis. 9 I believe it was after that that I was 10 pulled into the Therminol conversion or the 11 withdrawal of the Therminol FR products from the 12 market for which these documents were generated. 13 After my assignment there, I was transferred 14 back to a textiles company at my request and they 15 put me in Pensacola, Florida and I took over the 16 library and technical information for Chemstrand 17 worldwide. I retired then in 1981 from 18 Pensacola. 19 Q. Thank you. 20 A. When you type that up, send me a copy and I'll 21 use it as a resume. 22 Q. Mr. Gann, other than your degree from the 23 University of Michigan, do you hold any 24 professional licenses? 25 A . No . WATER PCB-00038729 108 1 Are you familiar with anything at Monsanto called 2 a PCB panel? 3 MR. DUCHOWICZ: You mean like a 4 group of people? 5 MS. REUSZE: I believe that's what 6 it means. 7A That exists today or that existed then? 82 I'm not sure. At any point in time? 9A I don't recollect that terminology. 10 2 Do you recognize the name Jay Craddock? 11 h No. Jay who ? 12 2 Craddock, it's C-r-a-d-d-o-c-k. - 13 A That does not register. 14 2 Have you ever heard of a company called 15 Metallurgical International, Inc.? 16 A I don't know. The name doesn't, if my name is 17 associated with it, then obviously I did, but I 18 don't. 19 2 That ' s fine. 20 Okay. - 2 1 2- Are you familiar with a company called Aerojet 22 General? 23 A . Aerojet General? 24 2- Aerojet General? 25 I think I've heard the company name. I don't WATER PCB-00038730 109 1 know that I've heard it in respect to my work at 2 Monsanto. 3 2. During the time period that you were employed as 4 a research engineer with Monsanto in, I'm sorry, 5 was that in Toledo? 6 A. Dayton. 7 2. In Dayton, do you recall ever technology sharing 8 or technological information shared with General 9 Tire or GenCorp? 10 A. From Dayton? 11 2. Yes. 12 A. No . 13 2. Do you recall whether anyone at Monsanto, who was 14 associated with or involved with the conversion 15 project, ever told you that they had visited any 16 of the customers' plants? 17 A. I can't come up with a recollection of specific 18 conversations with specific either marketing tech 19 sales or engineers. I do know that I talked with 20 these people at times after they, before or after 21 they visited a plant, but I can't recall a 22 specific conversation. 23 Q. I'd like to go through a few names of what the 24 documents have indicated are Monsanto employees, 25 and if you would, please tell me whether or not WATER PCB-00038731 110 1 you understood them to be involved in the 2 conversion project. 3 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Just note my 4 objection to the characterization of what 5 the inclusion of a name on some of these 6 exhibits might be. You're assuming that if 7 somebody is cc'd on a letter that it's a 8 Monsanto employee? Is that the premise for 9 your statement? 10 MS. REUSZE: I couldn't say 11 specifically with respect to each of the 12 names. That may be possible. . 13 MR. OCCHIPINTI: All right. Well 14 then just note my objection. 15 Q. G.T. Fague, F-a-g-u-e? 16 A. That name is familiar but I don't know why it's 17 familiar. 18 Q. Then I presume you probably would not know 19 whether Mr. Fague is still alive? 20 A. That is true. I'm not sure why the name is 21 familiar. 22 Q. J.R. Fallon, F-a-l-l-o-n. 23 A. Yes. I think I remember him. I think he is a 24 Monsanto or I'm going back to '72, was a Monsanto 25 employee. I think I remember him. WATER PCB-00038732 111 1 Q. Do you believe that you remember him from the 2 conversion project? 3 A. I remember me being involved in the conversion 4 project at that time. I don't think he was 5 involved, I do not recollect that he was involved 6 in the actual conversion project people that I 7 was working with. 8 Q. R.L. Meary, M-e-a-r-y? 9 A. I want to say his name is Dick, but I'm not 10 positive. I think he is an engineer that was on 11 the project conversion team. 12 Q. Would you recall when he was employed by 13 Monsanto? 14 A. I do not know when he was employed with 15 Monsanto. He was a few years, that may be a 16 lie. I think he's a few years younger than I 17 am. 18 Q. Larry, I believe the name may be Russe, 19 R-u-s-s-e . 20 A . That name i s f ami1iar. I cannot place him . 21 Q22 I believe Mr Danzer ' s name has come up with respect to documents? 23 A. Yes, he was an engineer, he was a project 24 engineer on the FR project. 25 Q. Would his name, first name possibly have been WATER PCB-00038733 112 1 Denny Danzer? 2 Yes, but I would not come up with Denny until you 3 brought it up. 4 Q. John Mason? 5 I should know him but I can't recall. That's 6 terrible. 7 Q. Would you recall a title group director, 8 functional products? 9 I don't recall it as a title, but it would be, if 10 that was his title, I probably had very little 11 contact with him. 12 Q. Based upon that title, do you believe that he 13 would have been involved in the conversion at 14 all? 15 A. Organizationally, he probably was; but 16 specifically, because I don't recall really any 17 contact with him, I don't know to what degree you 18 would say a person is involved, like they're 19 president of the company, would he be involved. 20 I have a hard time with that word involvement. 2 1 Q. That's a tricky one. 22 N . T. Johnson? 23 A. N.T. Johnson. That does not register. 24 Q. Do you recognize the name A.D. Jeffrey? 25 A. No, that does not register. WATER PCB-00038734 113 1 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Note my continuing 2 objection to the suggestion you placed in 3 the record that some of these people, that 4 all of these people are Monsanto's 5 employees. 6 Q. All right. Well, to clarify, I am not 7 representing that Mr. Jeffrey is a Monsanto 8 employee. I do believe that the previously- 9 mentioned names are of Monsanto personnel. 10 A. The ones that I recognize, I recognize them as 11 Monsanto employees. The ones whose names are 12 familiar, I have no idea where, why they're 13 f amiliar. 14 Q. I don't believe that this question directly has 15 been asked of the witness, but if it has, I am 16 sure someone will let me know. 17 Do you recall ever having contact with 18 someone that you understood to be an employee of 19 General Tire or GenCorp? 20 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Asked and 21 answered. 22 A. I cannot recall specific conversations with 23 anyone from General Tire or with General Tire. 24 Only the documents that I see. 25 Q. Now I'd like to ask you if you would recognize WATER PCB-00038735 114 1 another list of names. I'm not representing 2 these to be employees of any particular company. 3 Doug Bulson? 4 A. Does not register. 5 Q. Frank Sherry? 6 A. Does not register. 7 Q. James Townhill? 8 A. Not familiar. 9 Q. James Weaver? 10 A. James Weaver, no. 11 Q. Frank Tompkins? 12 A. I don't know him. - 13 Q. Ken Beckmann? 14 A. Gad, no, those names are not familiar to me. 15 A. I'm not saying I've never met the guys or 16 conversed with them. They just don't register. 17 Q. Fred Eastman. 18 A. Fred Eastman, no. 19 Q. Don Johnson? 20 A. These are common names. No, that doesn't. 2 1 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Do you watch Miami 22 Vice ? 23 A. No. I don't watch much TV. 24 Q. John Crozier? 25 A . No . WATER PCB-00038736 115 1 Q. Jay Millward? 2 No . 3 Q. Al Arold, A-r-o-l-d? 4 No . 5 Q. During the time that you were employed by 6 Monsanto, did you belong to any professional 7 organizations? 8 American Chemical -- I'm sorry. I belonged to 9 the American Chemical Society for a few years. 10 Then I belonged to the American Institute of 11 Chemical Engineers for essentially my entire 12 period with Monsanto. I belong to no 13 organizations now and I belonged to the 14 Association of Purchasing Agents, whatever they 15 used to call themselves, and for a period there 16 was some small groups, I don't know if they would 17 be called professional societies, but I got into 18 purchasing research activities, so that's part of 19 what I was doing in the last assignment in 20 Decatur. There was a group in Texas that we met 2 1 trying to figure out what cyclohexane pricing was 22 going to do. 23 Did you ever belong to the Chemical Manufacturers 24 Association? 25 I don't think I was a member of that. WATER PCB-00038737 116 1 Q. Do you recognize the name, I'm not sure if it's 2 male or female, the last name Kawecki, 3 K-a-w-e-c-k-i? 4 A. That does not register. 5 MS. REUSZE: I believe that I have 6 no further questions for you. Thank you. 7 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Has anything else 8 occurred to you that you want to ask him? 9 MR. DUCHOWICZ: No. Why don't you 10 go ahead? 11 MR. OCCHIPINTI: No, I'll go last. 12 You finish up. - 13 MR. DUCHOWICZ: If we finish up, you 14 can't go last. 15 MR. OCCHIPINTI: You noticed the 16 deposition of the witness. 17 MR. DUCHOWICZ: I'm just making a 18 point. 19 20 RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION OF PAUL GANN 2 1 BY MR-. DUCHOWICZ: 22 Q. Mr. Gann, directing your attention back to 23 Exhibit 12, there was a question earlier about a 24 Mr. Fague whose name apparently appears at the 25 top of that document on the February 24, '72 memo WATER PCB-00038738 117 1 trip report? 2 A. Okay. 12, got you. 3 Q. You see the 1320 G.F. Fague at the top right-hand 4 corner? 5 A. Yes, that name is familiar. 6 Q. Do you recall who he was or what department he 7 worked in or anything about him at all? Excuse 8 the compound question. 9 A. No. No. The name is very familiar but I cannot 10 place him. 11 Q. Earlier you were handed Exhibit 1 which was a 12 Therminol conversion bulletin. 13 Were you at all involved in the drafting of 14 that bulletin? 15 A. No. No. 16 Q. Who at Monsanto, if you know? 17 A. I do not know who put this together. 18 Q. Were you at all familiar with the contents of 19 that bulletin at the time that you were involved 20 in the withdrawal of -- 21 A. Superficially. 22 Q. Not the minute detail of this entry? 23 A. Not in minute detail. 24 25 MR. DUCHOWICZ: I've not nothing further, unless there is follow-up after Mr. WATER PCB-00038739 118 1 Occhipinti. 2 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I have a couple of 3 questions for you. 4 5 CROSS-EXAMINATION OF PAUL GANN 6 BY MR. OCCHIPINTI: 7 Q. I want to ask you about the incineration that 8 Monsanto was offering to its customers. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And you mentioned before, and I don't want to 11 recharacterize your testimony. It is in the 12 record. There it is what it is, but I think you 13 used the term it was the company's request, it 14 was Monsanto's request that customers return FR-1 15 and any flushings for incineration, is that 16 accurate ? 17 A. That is accurate relative to the way I 18 interpreted Monsanto's operation. 19 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 1, the conversion 20 bulletin which I think you have in the packet 21 before you? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. I'm going to try to find a page reference for you 24 in a second. Take a look at Page 11 of the 25 bulletin? WATER PCB-00038740 119 1 Al 1 right. 2 Q. You see under subsection A there, fluid flush 3 cleaning? 4 Yes . 5 Q. Down at the end of that subsection, I'll just, 6 it's short. I'll read it into the record. "Both 7 the drain Therminol FR and the Therminol 55 or 66 \ 8 used to flush the system may then be returned to 9 Monsanto for disposal"? 10 11 Q. 12 13 Yes . You don't interpret that as a request, do you? MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection. I interpret that, you want to know how I 14 interpret it? 15 Q. Yes. My question is if you interpret that as a 16 request? 17 A. Well, when you complete this, you may return it 18 to Monsanto. This is next step you do. 19 Q. But you don't interpret that as a request to do 20 it. Is that more like an offer that you'll take 2 1 it back? 22 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection. 23 A. No, I interpret that as a statement of the next 24 step to do. 25 . Okay. Let me direct your attention to I think WATER PCB-00038741 120 1 it's Exhibit 4. It's not Exhibit 4. Exhibit 10, 2 which is Mr. Paton's letter dated May 25, 1972? 3 Yes . 4 Q. Again, I'm not going to read the whole letter, 5 but I'll read part of the first paragraph picking 6 up with, "at that time, we offered to pay freight 7 costs incurred in returning the Therminol FR to 8 us and costs for proper disposal of the material, 9 (by high temperature incineration.)" It says, 10 "Many companies have taken advantage of this 11 offer." 12 And down at the end of the letter, -the last 13 full paragraph, it says, "If you desire this 14 service, please call," and there is a telephone 15 number and an address to write for information. 16 Again, do you interpret this as a request or 1 7 just another possible next step after the 18 materials are removed from the system? 19 A. I interpret this - 20 MR. DUGHOWICZ: Objection to this 2 1 person's interpretation of what Mr. Cumming 22 Paton wrote in his letter. 23 Well, that's fair enough; but to you does this 24 represent the type of -- withdrawn. Does this 25 represent a request to you that the material be WATER PCB-00038742 12 1 1 returned or is this merely an offer that 2 customers may take advantage of? 3 A. A request versus offer. Well, certainly it's an 4 offer. The nature of the fact that Monsanto, my 5 interpretation is that the nature of Monsanto's 6 representation that we are willing to pay these 7 costs, I interpret that as in the framework of a 8 request. 9 Q. Let me ask you this - 10 A. But I am not him. 11 Q. Yes, I understand. I'm not asking you to get 12 into Mr. Paton's mind. 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. I'm just looking for in the exhibits that we have 15 in front of us any type of request that it be 16 returned. 17 As anybody that was in charge of some 18 elements of this conversion project, and that 19 being you, did you ever see a demand that a 20 particular customer return its FR fluid and 2 1 flushings - 22 A. Demand? 23 MR. DUCHOWICZ: From Monsanto? 24 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Can I finish the 25 question. WATER PCB-00038743 122 1 MR. DUCHOWICZ: I thought you were 2 done. I'm sorry. 3 Q. Mr. Gann, as someone who was involved in this 4 conversion project, did you ever see someone from 5 Monsanto demand that a particular customer return 6 the fluids to them? 7 A. Demand means there is consequences if you don't? 8 Q. Yes. We insist or demand that you return the 9 fluids to us? 10 A. I, the word demand means there is a consequence 11 and I don't recall that there were consequences 12 that Monsanto would lay out on a customer for not 13 returning it. I may not be interpreting your 14 word demand correctly, but that's the way it 15 af fects me. 16 Q. Fair enough. I'll ask you another question, 17 then . 18 If a particular customer was going to be 19 involved in a conversion and if Monsanto were to 20 lend technical or other assistance to the 2 1 customer in the manner you've talked about today, 22 would that assistance by Monsanto be conditioned 23 upon the customer returning the spent fluid and 24 flushings to you? 25 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection. Calls WATER PCB-00038744 123 1 for speculation totally. 2 MR. OCCHIPINTI: It's really not 3 speculation. Is he aware of any instance in 4 which that occurred. 5 Am I aware of instances where an engineer of ours 6 went out to the customer and came back and the 7 customer did not return the fluid to us? 8 Q. No. Are you aware of any instance in which 9 Monsanto lent technical or other assistance to a 10 customer who was undergoing a conversion where 11 that assistance was conditioned upon the customer 12 returning the spent fluid and the flushings to 13 you ? 14 No, I am not aware of any modus operandi that way 15 at al1 . . 16 Q. Okay. Now, I think you indicated earlier that 17 Monsanto had an incineration operation somewhere? 18 A . Yes . 19 Q. Where it could take these fluids that were 20 returned and it could incinerate them? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Where was that facility? 2 3 A. Sauget, Illinois. 2 4 Was that the only incinerator Monsanto had for 25 that purpose? WATER PCB-00038745 124 1 A. That's my understanding. 2 Q. Are you aware of any other incinerators in 3 operation anywhere in the country? 4 A. At that time? 5 Q. During that period of time to be used for that 6 purpose? 7 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Are you referring to 8 Monsanto or anyone? 9 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Anyone. 10 A. There were some other incinerators in the country 11 or being considered for the purpose similar to 12 what Monsanto was doing. I think I had read 13 something like this in Chemical Engineering News 14 or some journal like this. I believe that was a 15 kind of a hot topic at that time. 16 Q. It was under consideration at that time? Is that 17 what you're saying? 18 A. I'm saying it was either under consideration or 19 some were being built somewhere in the country. 20 Q. Did Monsanto ever send FR fluid or flushings from 21 a conversion to any other facility for 22 incineration? 23 A. Not to my knowledge. 24 Q. It used its own facility exclusively? 25 A. My knowledge is they used only their own facility WATER PCB-00038746 125 1 and I do not know that any other facility was in 2 operation at that time. 3 Q. Okay. Let me ask the next exhibit be marked in 4 line. 5 6 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 18, 7 four-page March 10, 1972 Therminol FR Conversion 8 Project Week of March 7, 1972, was marked for 9 purposes of identification.) 10 1 1 Q. Mr. Gann, would you take a look at Exhibit 18 for 12 a moment and tell me when you're ready? 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. For the record. Exhibit 18 is a March 10, 1972 15 memorandum on the subject of Therminol FR 16 Conversion Project, week of March 7, 1972. 17 Mr. Gann, your name appears at the top of 18 this memorandum and I can't tell from this copy 19 if that's a to you or from you. Do you have any 20 insight on that? 2 1 A. Well, there is, looking at the last page, the 22 last page has me and therefore, I'm interpreting 23 this that I initiated this document. 24 Q. Okay. And this, is it a fair statement that this 25 is a progress report on the conversion project? WATER PCB-00038747 126 1 It appears that this is a summary of progress of 2 that particular week. 3 Before your name on Page 1, the letter B followed 4 by 2 and then the letters SD appears. What's the 5 significance of those numbers and letters? 6 That is a mail code within the Monsanto 7 organization at St. Louis. 8 Q. And that followed you everywhere, that code. 9 That was your code? 10 . No. That's a mail drop code. Billing B, second 11 floor, I don't know where the S and D, but the 12 mailman knows where to drop the mail. _ 13 Q. So there might be other names with that prefix 14 below or before it? 15 A. Probably. 16 Q. It would be anybody else who worked in the same 17 building as you or the same location? 18 A. Well, probably the same location. I don't know 19 that it went to a specific desk. 20 Q. When you started toget involved in this 2 1 conversion project, was a file already created 22 for each customer to deposit documents such as 23 the memos we've been looking at and other things 24 that were generated in connection with a 25 particular client's conversion? WATER PCB-00038748 127 1 A. I can't recall the actual set-up that existed 2 when I walked in. They had set up an office, I 3 think they had set up an office for me, file 4 cabinets and then secretarial resource. I don't 5 recall whether there was anything in those file 6 cabinets and if there were, what they were. I 7 don't know whether it was all a hundred percent 8 generated by me or that I inherited stuff. I 9 don't recall. 10 Q. You don't know, then, if files for the purpose of 11 collecting and keeping documents, for example, 12 updates on conversion status of a particular 13 client were created by client or whether there 14 was a master file for all clients? 15 A. I kept a file. I don't recall whether it was the 16 central file for the conversion team. I kept a 17 file and attempted to record and keep all of my 18 notes, as you can tell, in that file and that had 19 to be organized by company by site because I had 20 to be able to get to them; but I don't know if 21 they were a central file, I just don't. 22 Q. In looking at Number 18, for example, Exhibit 18, 23 are there any markings on the top of this exhibit 24 or anywhere in the exhibit which would ensure, 25 for example, that a copy of this was kept in a WATER PCB-00038749 128 1 particular client's file if there was a reference 2 to a particular client in the status report? 3 A. I don't see that this report would be filed by 4 clients and I don't see that a central file is 5 indicated here. 6 Q. Now, I think you indicated earlier that counsel, 7 that is your attorney, provided to you sometime 8 prior to today a set of documents which he may 9 have indicated to you were provided to both sides 10 in this litigation? 11 Yes . 12 Q. And I can tell you on the record that those 13 documents were in fact produced to both sides 14 pursuant to a subpoena issued by Mr. Duchowicz to 15 Monsanto. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. Earlier you made reference to a mechanism which 18 Monsanto placed into effect to try to keep tabs 19 on which companies had received its December 15, 20 1971 letter? - 2 1 A . Yes. - 22 Q. And I think you referred to it as some kind of a 23 backlog or return? 24 A. It was a mailing and it was a return receipt. 25 What I said I didn't know whether it went out by WATER PCB-00038750 129 1 registered mail. I strongly suspect it did 2 because I know it cost so many bucks per mailing 3 and, but it was a return receipt and we kept a 4 log and I may have kept a log. I'm not quite 5 sure at this sitting, but a log was kept of who 6 it was sent out to and then the letters that 7 returned. 8 2- And during the - 9 A. Or the cards returned. 10 2. I'm sorry. 11 A . Excuse me. 12 2. And during the time that you were involved in 13 this conversion project, can you recall getting 14 back the post office's return receipt cards in 15 the mail? 16 ft.. I can recall seeing the return receipt cards, 17 yes . 18 Q. At the time ? 19 A. At the time, yes. 20 Q. In looking through the documents furnished to you 21 prior to the deposition, furnished to you by 22 counsel, your lawyer, did you see either a return 23 receipt card from the United States Post Office 24 or the log that you referred to that you kept? 25 A. No. And, I'm not positive I was the one that WATER PCB-00038751 130 1 kept the log. 2 Q. But you -3 But there was some check-off that we knew and I 4 think it was me, but I can't swear to it. 5 Q. Okay. You made a reference earlier and, again, 6 not repeating your words, I'm not going to try 7 to; but just to orient you, that you were aware \ 8 of emergency situations where top-up might be 9 required but you didn't know if GenCorp fell into 10 the category of a client that had such 11 circumstances? 12 A. None of the customers that I dealt with flash out 13 to me in this extent and General Tire does not 14 flash out as a specific organization in my mind. 15 Q. Okay. What type of situations were you referring 16 to generally as those in which maybe an emergency 17 where top-up was required? And I think I could 18 probably direct you to an exhibit to help 19 reorient you to what I'm talking about, although 20 maybe I c an't. - 21 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Off the record. 22 23 (Off the record.) 24 25 A. You might refer to Exhibit 4. WATER PCB-00038752 131 1 Q. I am looking at it now and I think this was the 2 one I meant to ask you about . 3 Towards the end of the second paragraph, 4 there is a reference to an emergency top-up with 5 MCS-68. 6 Are you aware, as you sit here today, can 7 you recall any of the circumstances that may have 8 given rise to an emergency top-up? 9 MR. DUCHOWICZ: At the Toledo plant, 10 you're talking about? 11 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Well, right now 12 generally, because he said he couldn't 13 remember any specific customer that had it. 14 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Okay. 15 A. I can't remember specifics. Sorry about that. 16 An emergency would be a major production 17 operation that they couldn't in their point of 18 view shut down and convert right this second and 19 therefore, they needed fluid to continue 20 operation. That would be an emergency, an 21 example of an emergency. 22 Q. Okay. Can you think of any other examples other 23 than that one? I'm not saying that's a bad one 24 or a good one, just are there any others that 25 come to mind? WATER PCB-00038753 1 32 1 A. No. No. That's a generalized situation. 2 Q. During the conversion process and by that, I mean 3 in between the time when you first notified 4 clients that you were going to withdraw the 5 product FR-1 from the market and the time when 6 any particular client would have actually carried 7 out the conversion, was Monsanto providing some 8 form of heat transfer fluid to clients who had 9 not yet completed a conversion on an emergency 10 11 A. 12 13 14 15 top-up basis as you just described? Based on these memos here, we had sent them nonPCB fluids, heat transfer fluids for top-off, that they used for top-off. Whether or not we knew it was going to be used for top-off, I'd have to go back and look at the memos. Again, I 16 don't recall specifics. 17 Q. Earlier you identified Mr. Danzer as an 18 individual who was part of the conversion team, 19 is that correct? 20 A . Y e s . - 2 1 Q. And you said he was an engineer? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Is he the individual who would have -- 24 withdrawn. 25 Is he one individual who may have lent WATER PCB-00038754 133 1 technical assistance to clients in connection 2 with their efforts of completing the conversion? 3 A. My interpretation of what he did, yes. 4 Q. Does his name used in connection with either 5 correspondence to a particular client or in notes 6 regarding a particular client's status in the 7 conversion project indicate to you that there was \ 8 some type of technical assistance being lent to a 9 particular client? 10 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection to form. 11 A. I'm not sure how to interpret what you have just 12 asked me. 13 Q. Okay. Let me see if I could help you out there, 14 then . 15 Again with respect to I think it's Exhibit 16 4, the third full paragraph on the first page? 17 A. Mechanical seal problem. 18 Q. "The mechanical seal problem bulletin sent to you 19 on March 17, 1972 by Mr. Danzer may give you 20 leads in solving your current problems." Does 2 1 that indicate to you that this particular client 22 was having some technical difficulty with respect 23 to a particular conversion? 24 A. Not necessarily with a conversion. He may have 25 had some operating difficulty, pump seals or WATER PCB-00038755 134 1 something of this sort. 2 Q. And would that kind of difficulty affect the 3 completion of a conversion as far as you know? 4 A. I don't know that it would affect the completion 5 of the conversion or the conversion itself. 6 Q. Can you explain what you mean by that? 7 A. I don't know the problem they're talking about 8 here or what was in the, Mr. Ransford's mind at 9 that time, what he was facing, I do not know if 10 that was an operating problem or a conversion 11 problem or that it would affect the conversion. 12 Q. So you don't know whether -- _ 13 A. I can't judge that. I don't have that detail. 14 Q. Sitting here today, you can't tell whether or not 15 an operating problem would have affected the 16 completion of a conversion one way or the other? 17 A. No, I would not know this. 18 Q. If I could ask you to refer to Exhibit 3, if you 19 can take a look at the notes on the progress of 20 conversion initiated by Mr. Danzer, which is the 21 second paragraph on the page? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. It indicates discussed engineering problems with 2 4 Ransford and sent, I can't read the next thing, 25 maybe him, info on blank discs? WATER PCB-00038756 135 1 A. I think that is rupture disc. 2 Q. Steam snuff, and there is something else 3 procedures ? 4 A. Analytical procedures and mechanical, I think 5 that's analytical procedures and mechanical 6 seals . 7 Q. Let me ask you whether or not the presence of 8 that entry indicates to you sitting here now 9 whether or not there were engineering problems in 10 connection with completing the conversion for 11 this particular client? 12 |A. I cannot interpret that as saying that this is a 13 comment reflecting actual conversion or an 14 operational issue. In other words, I don't know 15 that this is related to him actually physically 16 getting ready to convert or whether he was 17 operating the equipment and there were some 18 questions that Danzer could suggest some answers 19 to . 20 Q. FR-1 was the only fire resistant heat transfer 2 1 fluid on the market during that period of time, 22 isn't that correct? 23 A. I do not know if it was the only one. I don't 24 know, there was a family of PCBs. Some of them 25 went into the heat, I'm sorry, heat transfer. WATER PCB-00038757 136 1 Some into electrical use. Some as plasticizers. 2 I do not know if FR-1 was the only heat transfer 3 fluid, PCB heat transfer fluid. 4 2. Is it true that the Therminol 55 and Therminol 66 5 products were not fire resistant, were not as 6 fire resistant as the FR-1? 7 A. That is correct. 8 2. And is it also true that in connection with the 9 conversion of, the conversion project, Monsanto 10 had recommended the installation of steam 11 snuffers to handle the fact or to deal with the 12 fact that the new oil was not as flame resistant 13 as the old material? 14 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection. Are we 15 talking about generally or are you asking 16 him specifically with respect to General 17 Tire in Toledo? 18 MR. OCCHIPINTI: I have accepted 19 this witness' representation that he can't 20 remember anything specific about this 21 . -client . 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. So I'm asking you generally. 24 A. That's right. That I cannot remember. 25 MR. DUCHOWICZ: All right. WATER PCB-00038758 137 1 That specific question, I cannot recall that 2 Monsanto said we recommend the use of snuffers. 3 I would have to look at the conversion bulletin. 4 . Okay. 5 . It makes sense, but I can't say what Monsanto's 6 policy was without -- I do not recollect their 7 policy. 8 . Take a look at the conversion bulletin. Page 7. 9 . That's Item 1, correct. 10 . I'll read some of this into the record. "As 11 stated in the introduction to this bulletin," I'm 12 reading under fire resistance now? 13 . Yes . 14 . "The Therminol FR fluids were unique in their 15 inherit fire resistance. No other commonly used 16 heat transfer medium could be so classified." 17 I'm going to skip to the next paragraph now. "It 18 is important to realize that Therminol 55 and 66 19 are less fire resistant than Therminol FR-1 and 20 to modify the heat transfer system accordingly," 21 and then I'm not going to read it, but it 22 continues. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. I just wanted to orient to you that section of 25 the bulletin. Having looked at that now, does WATER PCB-00038759 138 1 that help refresh your recollection as to whether 2 or not Monsanto recommended the installation of 3 some type of fire protection measures in the area 4 where the heat transfer oil was going to be used? 5 I cannot recall specifically what Monsanto 6 recommended. 7 Okay. And again having looked at that now and 8 listened to me for the past few minutes and 9 looking back at Mr. Danzer's notes in Exhibit 3? 10 Yes . 11 Does the inclusion of the reference to a steam 12 snuffer or steam snuffs, at it appears there, 13 indicate to you that there were some engineering 14 or technical problems in completing the 15 conversion? 16 It does not indicate to me that there is a 17 technical problem of completing the conversion. 18 This is an advice as to when you go away from the 19 PCBs, you should have, this is a suggestion on 20 how to handle a fire precaution. 2 1 Q. Okay.- Looking back at Exhibit 18, which is the 22 one that I marked, on Page 3 of that exhibit, at 23 the bottom, under Roman Numeral 2 for activity, 24 Subsection D, this indicates, and I'll read it, 25 "Sauget incinerator expected on stream during WATER PCB-00038760 139 1 the day of March 17th, 1972 after being down most 2 of past five to six weeks. 14,000 gallon storage 3 currently available for tank truck unloading. 4 Railcars on hold until incinerator on stream, 5 reliability okayed and storage tank level 6 sufficiently low." 7 Do you remember the incinerator in Sauget \ 8 going down for five to six weeks in or around 9 March of 1972? 10 I cannot recall that specifically. 11 Q. Would the incinerator being out of operation for 12 a five to six-week period of time have affected 13 the paths by which Monsanto would be able to 14 receive shipments of spent FR and flushings for 15 incineration? 16 A. I do not recall delaying, that being a cause of 17 delay of any conversion. I do recall there was a 18 time that availabilities of the tank cars, there 19 was a logistic problem, but I don't know that it 20 was related to the incinerator being down. 2 1 Q. Okay. Monsanto had dedicated a railcar to this 22 process? 23 A. More than one railcar. 24 Q. Okay. And if the railcars were on hold until the 25 incinerator were on stream, as this indicates, WATER PCB-00038761 14 0 1 would that have affected the paths by which 2 Monsanto could receive flushings of FR fluid - 3 It depends on -- 4 Q. -- for incineration? 5 MR. DUCHOWICZ: You want to ask the 6 question again? I won't object in the 7 middle. \ 8 Q. Let me repeat the question and you may anticipate 9 the question; but for the benefit of the court 10 reporter, let me finish it. It helps if we don't 11 talk over each other. 12 You indicated that several railcars .were 13 dedicated to this process? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. This exhibits indicates that railcars were placed 16 on hold until incinerator on stream? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you know if the railcars were placed on hold 19 for five to six weeks while the incinerator was 20 not on stream? 2 1 A. I have no idea. 22 Q. And if those rails cars were not, well, if they 23 had been placed on hold, would that have affected 24 the paths by which Monsanto could have received 25 FR and flushings for incineration? WATER PCB-00038762 14 1 1 . I do not know. I do not know the number of 2 railcars involved in these. The storage tank was 3 low so they could have received material. 4 . Up to 14,000 gallons? 5 . Uh-huh. 6 . Is that a yes? 7 . Just a second. Just a second. I'm reading. I 8 do not know in reading this, whether the 14,000 9 gallon storage currently available for tank truck 10 unloading is related to the term storage tank 11 level sufficiently low. We may be talking about 12 apples and oranges. I do not know. 13 Q. Okay. Have you ever been to the Sauget, is that 14 Sauget, Illinois? 15 A. Yes. I had a little problem initially because I 16 was calling it Saugatuck; but only because I 17 lived in West Point for a while. It's Sauget. 18 Q. Sauget? 19 A. Yes, I've been there. 20 Q. And did you ever have occasion to observe that 2 1 14,000 gallon storage tank? 22 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection. 23 Q. Well, let me withdraw that because that's not 24 what the exhibit says. Let me ask you how were 25 materials slated for incineration stored at that WATER PCB-00038763 14 2 1 facility? 2 MR. DUCHOWICZ: And we're talking -- 3 . What I recall - 4 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Excuse me. Let me 5 get an objection in. I want to make sure 6 we're talking about the 1972 period because 7 in case he was there after that period, it 8 may have been different. 9 . Let me go back. How many times were you there? 10 . Twice that I recall. 11 . Was it during the period of time that you were in 12 charge of this? - 13 . Only during that period of time. 14 . During that period of time, then, can you recall 15 the manner in which washings and FR fluid were 16 17 (A. stored before incineration? What I recall seeing was a storage tank, a bunch 18 of drums and railroad cars. That's all I recall 19 seeing, and the incinerators. 20 Q. Sitting here today, can you estimate whether or 21 not this 14,000 gallon reference is to the tank, 22 a storage car, drums or some combination of those 23 three things ? 24 A. No. I'd have a hard time today interpreting what 25 that says. WATER PCB-00038764 143 1 Q. Okay. Turn the page, please. 2 Continuing, Subsection 2 now Subdivision E, 3 there is a reference here to, "T-55 availability 4 is in critical short supply." 5 My question is as follows: Since T-55 was 6 used as a flushing agent in the manner you 7 described earlier, would the fact that it was in 8 critical short supply affect your clients' paths 9 of conversion? 10 A. I am not aware, excuse me, I do not recall any 11 delay in conversion due to our inability to 12 supply T-55, but I don't recall a lot of stuff, 13 so . 14 Q. That's okay. Exhibit 17 is a label that 15 Mr. Duchowicz marked? 16 A. Yes . 17 Q. I'm sorry. It's Exhibit 16 I want to draw your 18 attention to. 19 On the bottom left-hand corner of that 20 exhibit, the following words appear: "Extreme 21 care should be taken to prevent any entry into 22 the environment through spills, leakage, use, 23 disposal, vaporization or otherwise." 24 In the lower right-hand corner of this 25 document, the following words appear: "If skin WATER PCB-00038765 144 1 contact occurs, remove by washing with soap and 2 water. Following eye contact, flush with water. 3 If clothing becomes soaked with fluid, launder 4 before wearing again." 5 Do those two statements seem inconsistent to 6 you ? 7 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection. 8 It depends whether you're dealing in parts per 9 trillion or gallons per hour. They do not strike 10 me as inconsistent from the standpoint of one, 11 the bulk material and second, human safety. 12 I see. When you make reference to parts.per 13 billion or parts per million -- 14 Whatever. 15 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Parts per trillion. 16 I just wanted to round it off. I don't know that 17 we can analyze to trillion. 18 Q. When you say you don't think these two things are 19 inconsistent, are you saying that because the 20 items referenced on the right-hand side of the 2 1 exhibit encompass some kind of mixing with water 22 or soap and other materials, that may have 23 diluted the PCB content? 24 No. I make, this is a judgment on my part. One, 25 is the safety aspect of the human being and if WATER PCB-00038766 145 1 you get this on you, what they're recommending is 2 get the material off your skin as quickly as 3 possible. If it's on your clothes, they're 4 basically saying, you know, get the damn clothes 5 off from you and go wash them. 6 And the primary concern being safety to human 7 health? \ 8 Yes, to the human being, yes. The only thing in 9 this world that counts. 10 I agree with you. 11 Take a look at Number 17 now. 12 Yes . 13 Can you date this document? 14 No. No. I can't date it. It appears this would 15 be a label that was used during the conversion 16 program, but I cannot mentally recall this 17 specific document. 18 Was Monsanto selling Therminol FR-1 heat transfer 19 medium during the conversion process? 20 To my recollection, I am not aware of Monsanto 21 selling it. I'm sure not aware of me saying 22 anything other than not available. 23 By that, do you mean it was still being produced 24 by the company but they were not making it 25 available to customers? WATER PCB-00038767 14 6 1 A. We still may have had some on hand. I do not 2 recall the timing of production shutdown. 3 Q. Do you know why a label like this would be 4 prepared by the company and what if anything it 5 would be affixed to? 6 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Objection. No 7 foundation. 8 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Well, I asked him 9 if he knew. 10 A. I only can speculate. 11 Q. I don't want you to speculate. 12 A. Okay. I just don't recall how things were 13 specifically labeled, whether this label went on 14 to a drum, whether it went, you know, what kind 15 of container. 16 Q. I see. 17 A. Well, it's obviously a drum, this is for a 18 55-gallon drum and this appears to be a label 19 that would be used on virgin Therminol. Whether 20 it was used during the time of conversion or 21 before the time of conversion, I have no idea. 22 Q. Okay. On this exhibit, there is a reference to 23 waste disposal and there is a, I don't want to 24 call it an offer or a request, but the following 25 words appear: "Used polychlorinated biphenyl WATER PCB-00038768 147 1 fluids may be returned freight prepaid for proper 2 incineration at the rate of 3 cents per pound"? 3 A. Yes . 4 Q. Did Monsanto offer to accept used PCB fluids for 5 proper incineration at 3 cents per pound at any 6 time other than during the conversion? 7 A. 8 Q. I'm only aware of during the conversion. Okay. Take a look at Gann 11. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. There is an article attached to this letter on my 11 copy. I would suspect your copy has the same? 12 A. Exactly. 13 Q. This is an article entitled "PCBs prevalent and 14 persistent." It's authored by Carl J. Gustafson, 15 and if I'm not mistaken - 16 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Excuse me. 17 A. Published in the Environmental Science & 18 Technology, apparently, based on the statement 19 right at the bottom. 20 Q. There is a date that appears on every other page 21 of this article, if I'm not mistaken. Is that 22 October, 1970? 23 A. That's what it says. 24 Q. And forgive me if you were asked this, I cannot 25 remember and in fact I think I instigated some WATER PCB-00038769 148 1 discussion about this but I don't remember what 2 they decided. Do you know if this article was 3 attached to this letter when sent to any 4 particular customer? 5 A. I believe it was attached. The letter says 6 attachment. 7 Q. Okay. In between October, 1970 and December 15, 8 1971, which is the date of the cover letter, do 9 you know if Monsanto was selling Therminol FR-1? 10 A. I do not know. 11 Q. Okay. Let me go back and ask you one more 12 question about Gann 11 and Gann 17. _ 13 A. 14 Q. Yes . Does the inclusion of the language quote, "This 15 product contains polychlorinated biphenyls which 16 some studies have shown may be persistent," and 17 then it continues, suggest to you that this label 18 was prepared sometime after October, 1970 when 19 this article was - 20 A. It suggests to me, yes, I interpreted it that 2 1 way. - 22 Q. -- published? 23 A. Yes. But I don't know when this label was made. 24 Q. Incidentally at the bottom of the label there are 25 some numbers, 811.01-245.11/53. WATER PCB-00038770 149 1 Does that aid in any way in your estimating 2 when this document was prepared? 3 A. No. I suspect, speculation, that there is a code 4 system on Monsanto labeling. 5 Q. You don't know that for sure, do you? 6 MR. CHAMBERS: Don't guess. 7 Q. I don't want you to speculate or guess. 8 A. Okay. I have no idea. 9 Q. And now finally, if I can find one more exhibit 10 to ask you about. I know you indicated earlier 11 that the arrow on some of the exhibits where your 12 name was included was someone's attempt at 13 routing the exhibit to you. On two of the 14 exhibits, Gann 12 and Gann 5, your name is 15 crossed out, on 12 it's crossed out. On 5 your 16 initials are crossed out. 17 First of all, does the fact that the 18 initials on 5 and the name on 12 are crossed out 19 have any particular significance to you? 20 A . No . 21 Q. Does that suggest to you that maybe someone 22 decided not to route it to you? 23 24 A. It does not suggest it to me. I'm just wondering `whether I'd cross -- no, I don't know why that 25 is . WATER PCB-00038771 150 1 . But it wasn't your practice to cross off your 2 name once you had received something like this, 3 either of these exhibits, would it have been? 4 A. No,.1 don't think it was my practice. 5 2- At the bottom of 12, there is some handwritten 6 notes ? 7 A . Yes. . 8 2. Followed by what appears to be DED and a date? 9 A. Yes. 10 2. Do you know what DED stands for? 11 A. I assume, I'm sorry, I guess those are the 12 initials of Danzer. _ 13 2- Okay. 14 A. I don't know what his middle initial is. 15 Q. Do you recognize the handwriting? 16 His handwriting, that's not my handwriting. 17 Q. You don't recognize the handwriting on this? 18 A. No, I don't recognize the handwriting. 19 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Thank you very 20 much, Mr. Gann,- I have no further 2 1 questions. 22 23 REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF PAUL GANN 24 BY MR. DUCHOWICZ: 25 Mr. Gann, back to Exhibit 18, the one Mr. WATER PCB-00038772 15 1 1 Occhipinti provided to you earlier, reference on 2 the third page of that document under Roman 3 Numeral 2C, it says, "Effective March 7th, '72, a 4 Xerox copy of the Wall Street Journal, March 16, 5 1972 article on FDA's proposal for PCB limitation 6 in the food industry is enclosed in all initial 7 team letters to customers." 8 Do you see that? N. 9 Yes . 10 MR. DUCHOWICZ: Would you mark this 11 Number 19? 12 13 (Thereupon, Gann Exhibit 19, 14 one-page Monday, March 6, 1972 photocopy of an 15 article from the The Wall Street Journal, was 16 marked for purposes of identification.) 17 18 Q. Handing you what's been marked as Exhibit 19, is 19 Exhibit 19 a copy of the article from The Wall 20 Street Journal which was, according to Exhibit 21 18, enclosed in all initial team letters to 22 customers ? 23 A. I have, my recollection cannot put that 24 together. 25 You cannot? WATER PCB-00038773 152 1 I can't say that this was the specific article 2 that was used. 3 Q. Directing your attention to the date on that 4 article, does that at all help refresh your 5 recollection as to -- 6 No . 7 Q. -- whether that was the article? 8 A. I would think it would be the article but I don't 9 recollect specifically the article. Until you 10 showed me this, I had forgotten all about the 11 existence of the article; but, no, this doesn't, 12 I can't put that together. - 13 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Okay. That's all I 14 have . 15 MR. OCCHIPINTI: One last question. 16 17 RECROSS CROSS-EXAMINATION OF PAUL GANN 18 BY MR. OCCHIPINTI: 19 Q. If an initial team letter to customers had been 20 already initiated or sent, would there have been 2 1 any effort to send this as a follow-up letter to 22 customers? This being the March 6, 1972 23 article? 24 A. In my correspondence with customers, I recall 25 clipping many things to my letters to aid them in WATER PCB-00038774 153 1 understanding the issue. I would have expected 2 me to have included this article in much of my 3 correspondence where appropriate. I hung on to 4 this kind of material for that. 5 Q. For that purpose? 6 For that purpose, to keep them aware; but, again, 7 specifically I can recall putting some packages 8 together on a certain mailing but I don't know to 9 whom or anything like that. 10 Q. Is it a fair statement that if any information 11 existed which would have motivated Monsanto to 12 withdraw the product from the market, it would 13 have been included in the December 15, 1971 14 letter to customers? 15 A. Run that by once more. 16 Q. Sure. Is it a fair statement that if any 17 information existed that Monsanto was aware of 18 that had motivated it to withdraw the product 19 from the market, it would have been included in 20 this December 15, 1971 letter? 2 1 A. Well, there may have been more information than 22 just that. I don't know what information was 23 available at the time they sent this out. 2 4 Q. I'm not talking about information that's 25 available outside of the company. I'm just WATER PCB-00038775 154 1 talking about the motivation for Monsanto's 2 withdrawal. I think you said earlier that you 3 wanted to explain to customers the reason for the 4 withdrawal? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Is it a fair statement that everything Monsanto 7 knew about PCBs which had motivated it to \ 8 withdraw the product from the market was 9 contained in this letter or the attachment? 10 A. I have no way of judging that. 11 MR. OCCHIPINTI: Okay. Thank you 12 very much for your time, sir. I appreciate 13 it. 14 MR. DUCHOWICZ: We're done. Thank 15 you very much. I'm sure your attorney has 16 explained signature to you. 17 MR. CHAMBERS: Actually, I haven't, 18 but we will want to read and sign. 19 20 PAUL GANN 21 22 23 24 25 WATER PCB-00038776 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE The State of Ohio, ) County of Cuyahoga.) SS: I, Pamela S. Greenfield, a Notary Public within and for the State of Ohio, authorized to administer oaths and to take and certify depositions, do hereby certify that the above-named PAUL GANN, was by me, before the giving of his deposition, first duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; that the deposition as above-set forth was reduced to writing by me by means of stenotypy, and was later transcribed into typewriting under my direction; that this is a true record of the testimony given by the witness, and was subscribed by said witness in my presence; that said deposition was taken at the aforementioned time, date and place, pursuant to notice or stipulations of counsel; that I am not a relative or employee or attorney of any of the parties, or a relative or employee of such attorney or financially interested in this action. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, hand and seal of office, _________ day of , A. D . I have hereunto set at Cleveland, Ohio, 19 ____. my this Pamela Greenfield, Notary Public, State 1750 Midland Building, Cleveland, Ohio My commission expires June 30, 1993 of Ohio 44115 WATER PCB-00038777 156 1 WITNESS INDEX 2 PAGE 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION 3 PAUL GANN 4 BY MR. DUCHOWICZ 5 CROSS-EXAMINATION PAUL GANN 6 BY MS. REUS Z E 101 7 RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION PAUL GANN 8 BY MR. DUCHOWICZ 116 - 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION PAUL GANN 10 BY MR. OCCHIPINTI 118 11 REDIRECT EXAMINATION PAUL GANN 12 BY MR. DUCHOWICZ 150 - 13 RECROSS CROSS-EXAMINATION PAUL GANN 14 BY MR. OCCHIPINTI 152 15 EXHIBIT INDEX 16 EXHIBIT MARKED 17 Gann Exhibit 1 14-page Therminol Conversion 18 Bulletin 15 19 20 Gann Exhibit 2 one-page December 28, 1971 Paton letter to Grubaugh 38 21 22 23 24 25 Gann Exhibit 3 two-page Conversion Action Gann Exhibit 4 two-page September 21, 1972 Gann letter to Ransford Gann Exhibit 5 one-page April 4, 1972 letter to Ransford Roder 39 40 53 WATER PCB-00038778 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gann Exhibit 6 three-page October 9, 1972 Gann letter to Captain of the Port Office Gann Exhibit 7 one-page handwritten Action Conversion Gann Exhibit 8 one-page September 18, 1972 Monsanto invoice to Textileather Gann Exhibit 9 one-page April 5, 1982 Monsanto invoice to Textileather Gann Exhibit 10 one-page May 25, 1972 letter to Dear Sir Paton Gann Exhibit 11 eight-page December 15, 1971 Bergen letter to Dear Sir with attachments - Gann Exhibit 12 two-page February 24, Roder letter to Paton 1972 Gann Exhibit 13 one-page handwritten notes Gann Exhibit 14 one-page"Status" Gann Exhibit 15 four-page September handwritten notes 13, 1972 Gann Exhibit 16 one-page label to Monsanto Gann Exhibit 17 one-page Therminol FR-1 label 157 62 75 79 79 82 83 89 91 91 91 98 101. WATER PCB-00038779 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gann Exhibit 18 four-page March 10, 1972 Therminol FR Conversion Project Week of March 7, 1972 Gann Exhibit 19 one-page Monday, March 6, 1972 photocopy of an article from the The Wall Street Journal 158 125 151 WATER PCB-00038780 THERMINOr CONVERSION BULLETIN SP/TC-1 Monsanto liEN oooio? WATER PCB-00038781 THERM1N0L CONVERSION BULLETIN SP/TC-1 "Nothing contained herein is to b construed es a recommendation to use any product in conflict with any patent. MONSANTO MAKES NO WARRANTIES AS TO THE FITNESS OR MERCHANTABILITY OF ANY PRODUCT REFERRED TO, no guarantee of satisfactory results from reliance upon contained information or recommendations, and disclaims all liability for any resulting loss or damage." Monsanto Industrial Chemicals Co. A Unit of Monsanto Company 800 N. Lindbergh Blvd., St. Louis. Mo. 63166 -----------------------------i--------------------------- GEN 0001G6 WATER PCB-00038782 INTRODUCTION Therminol FR1*1 fne-resistant heat transfer fluids have long provided safe, dependable, economical performance for hundreds of users in dozens of applications. The presence of poly-chlorinated biphenyl (PCB) in the Therminol FR formulation provided fire-resistance, giving Therminol FR an added margin of safety which was especially desirable in hazardous applications. Most recently, PCB has been identified as a potential hazard to the environment. Monsanto has accordingly elected to discontinue the manufacture and sale of Therminol FR fluids for heat transfer appli cations. This bulletin is to inform you about two alternative products sold by Monsanto which do not contain PCB, namely Therminol 55 and Therminol 66. These products offer most of the excellent heat transfer characteristics of Therminol FR fluids, and even a few additional advantages, such as a lower specific gravity for improved pumpability requiring less horsepower. We would point out that Therminol 55 and 66 are not fire-resistant to the extent the Therminol FR fluids were, and due consideration must be given this fact in converting to these newer Therminol fluids. You may wish to consult with your insurers on any conversion from Therminol FR. Conversion from a Therminol FR fluid to a Therminol 55 or 66 fluid will be a relatively simple, low-cost procedure in the majority of cases. Incorporation of proper fire protection equipment will be the only consideration of major consequence in most cases. But even this modification becomes academic, for with the discontinuation of Therminol FR fluids, fire protection equipment becomes necessary for any and all low pressure heat transfer media available today, since the Therminol FR fluids were unique in their fire-resistance. Should questions arise with respect to the conversion from Therminol FR fluid, Monsanto's Specialty Products Group invites you to call upon its staff or qualified systems engineers for consultation at any time. Call . . . (314) 694-2514 and ask for a Monsanto Heat Transfer Specialist. GEN 000109 WATER PCB-00038783 V c Therminol 55 and 66 and Your Heat Transfer System Table 1 shows the typical physical, chemical and thermal properties of Therminol FR-1, Therminol 55 and Therminol 66. As you will note, Therminol 55 and 66 are quite similar except with regard to AIT, Fire Point and density. The substantially lower density of Therminol 55 and 66 means that pumps used in a Therminol FR-1 system should be adequate for a Therminol 55 and 66 system. In most cases, pumping rates will be increased with a resultant saving in horsepower require ments. TABLE 1 TYPICAL PHYSICAL, CHEMICAL ft THERMAL PROPERTIES Composition Maximum Bulk Temperature Rating (F.) Recommended Use Range (F.) Pour Point (F.) Pounds/Gallon (75F.) Flash Point (F.) Fire Point (F.) AIT (F.) Boiling Range (F.) Molecular Weight Expansion Coefficient cc/cc/F. Thrmlml FR-1 Polychlorinated Biphenyl 600F. Thtrmlnol 66Thfmlnal 85 Modified Terphenyl Alkylated Aromatic 650 F. 600 F. 45 - 575F. 2 11.55 350 None to Boiling 1206F. 620 - 680 265 0.00031 45 - 635F. -15 8.35 355 374 - 392 705 644 - 745 240 0.00039 20 - 575f. -10 7.4 355 410 670 635 - 734 340 0.00047 Therminol 55 and 66 have outstanding heat transfer properties, so heating and cooling performance will not be sacrificed in a change from Therminol FR-1. The specific heat and thermal conductivity of Therminol 55 and 66 are shown, along with other physical properties, in Tables 2, 3 and 4, and in Figures 1, 2 and 3. The lower pour points of Therminol 55 and 66 will provide easier cold startup of the system. 3 WATER PCB-00038784 TtmoKtlurt F C 50 10 100 38 150 66 200 93 250 121 300 149 350 177 400 204 450 232 500 260 550 288 600 316 650 343 700 371 TABLE 2 THERMINOL FR-1 VARIATION OF PROPERTIES WITH TEMPERATURE Oinilty lb/0*4 11.68 11.46 11.22 10.99 10.76 10.53 10.30 10.07 9.83 9.60 9.37 9.14 8.91 8.68 Kj/W 1399.6 1372.7 1343.7 1316.7 1289.1 1261.3 1233.5 1205.8 1178.0 1150.2 1122.5 1094.7 1066.9 1039.3 SBiflo Hut Th*rm*l Conduetlvlty BTU/lb Kul/Kg BTU/H KMl/m F "C hr F hr "C 0.272 0.282 0.291 0.3047 0.3151 03255 0.3359 0.3464 0.3568 0.3672 0.3776 0.3880 0.3985 0.4089 0.272 0.282 0.291 0.3047 0.3151 0.3255 0.3359 0.3464 0.3568 0.3672 0.3776 0.3880 0.3985 0.4089 0.06098 0.06060 0.06021 0.05976 0.05927 0.05875 0.05819 0.05760 0.05697 0.05630 0.05560 0.05487 0.05409 0.05329 0.0907 0.0902 0.08% 0.0889 0.0882 0.0874 0.0866 0.0857 0.0848 0.0838 0.0827 0.0817 0.0805 0.0793 Vlieoiity Vipor Pmiur* Cp 308 23.2 6.6 3.4 2.3 1.4 1.0 0.8 0.6 0.5 0.4 0.4 0.3 0.3 Ci 220 16.9 4.9 2.6 1.8 1.1 0.8 0.7 0.5 0.4 0.4 0.3 0.3 0.3 mmHg obsolutB Kg/W _ --_ --_ __ __ ---- - 10 0.0136 27 0.0367 65 0.0884 143 0.1945 291 0.3958 550 0.7480 18.8psia 1.3218 31.9psia 2.2429 Timpifitun "F C 0 50 10 100 38 150 66 200 93 250 121 300 149 350 177 400 204 450 232 500 260 550 288 600 316 650 343 700 371 TABLE 3 THERMINOL M VARIATION OF PROPERTIES WITH TEMPERATURE Dindty lb/* 8.67 8.51 8.34 8.14 7.91 7.77 7.59 7.39 7.17 7.04 6.75 6.62 6.42 6.24 6.09 K|/mJ 1040 1020 1000 975 950 930 910 885 860 840 810 793 770 750 730 SpMlfli Hut nvsrmil Cenduetlvlty Vlteetlty BTU/lb Keal/K| BTU/H Kwi/m F c hr F hr "C Cp Cl 0.320 0.350 0.380 0.405 0.430 0.455 0.480 0.505 0.530 0.555 0.580 0.605 0.630 0.655 0.680 0.320 0.350 0.380 0.405 0.430 0.455 0.480 0.505 0.530 0.555 0.580 0 605 0.630 0.655 0.680 0.0720 0.0711 0.0703 0.0695 0.0687 0.0678 0.0670 0.0662 0.0653 0.0645 0.0637 0.0628 0.0620 0.0613 0.0605 0.1072 0.1058 0.1046 0.1034 0.1022 0.1008 0.0997 0.0985 0.0972 0.0959 0.0948 0.0935 0.0923 0.0912 0.0900 62000 255 28.0 9.75 4.18 2.42 1.55 1.06 0.77 0.58 0.45 0.36 0.34 0.27 0.20 50000 250 28.0 10.0 4.40 2.60 1.70 1.20 0.90 0.69 0.55 0.46 0.44 0.36 0.28 Vtpor Prwuu mmHg ibwluta Kj/omJ ------ --_--0.1 -- --2.0 0.003 20.0 50.0 100.0 200.0 350.0 760.0 1000 0.027 0.068 0.136 0.272 0.476 1.034 1.360 6N OOOiU 4 WATER PCB-00038785 W A TE R PC B-00038786 e Timperiture T c 0 -18 100 38 200 93 300 149 400 204 500 260 600 316 TABLE 4 THERMINOL 56 VARIATION OF PROPERTIES WITH TEMPERATURE Derwlty Ib/gil 7.62 7.31 7.00 5.69 5.39 5.07 5.76 Kg/m' 915 878 840 803 766 729 691 Specific Heil Thermal Conductivity BTU/lb KmI/K| BTU/ft Koel/m F " c hr F hr C 0.420 0.472 0.522 0.572 0.620 0.670 0.718 0.420 0.472 0.522 0.572 0.620 0.670 0.718 0.0813 0.0784 0.0753 0.0724 0.0692 0.0661 0.0630 0.1210 0.1167 0.1121 0.1077 0.1030 0.0984 0.0938 Vlioeiity c 1472 25.4 4.20 1.69 0.904 0.583 0.415 Cl 1610 30.1 5.0 2.10 1.18 0.80 0.60 _ Vaper Pmiure mmHg absolute K|/W _ 0.5 3.0 10 40 100 250 0.001 0.004 0.014 0.054 0.136 0.330 FIGURE 1 THERMINOL FR-1 PHYSICAL PROPERTIES . fc TEMPERATURE -- *F. * r ooo^z VISCOSITY -- CENTISTOKES FIGURE 2 THERMINOL 66 PHYSICAL PROPERTIES 9 SPECIFIC HEAT -- 8TU/LB. --50 0 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 TEMPERATURE-"F. 40 35 30 25 20 15 10 5 0 FIGURE 3 THERMINOL 55 VISCOSITY -- CENTISTOKES SPECIFIC HEAT-- BTU/LB. *F. v.m' ---------- --50 0 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 tt TEMPERATURE -- "F. gen 000113 I Generally speaking, then, a well designed system currently operating on Therminol FR-1 can be converted to Therminol 55 and 66 with few. if any, basic changes in design -- and without sacrifice to heat transfer efficiency. With the similarity of the heat transfer properties of the three fluids thus established, let us turn to the important differences between Therminol FR-1 and Therminol 55 and 66: namely, fireresistance and oxidation-resistance. Fire-Resistance As stated in the Introduction to this bulletin, the Therminol FR fluids were unique in their inherent fire-resistance. No other commonly used heat transfer medium could be so classified. Even so. the Therminol FR fluids could be made to burn under certain conditions, as indicated by their AIT of about 1200F. It is important to realize that Therminol 55 and 66 are less fire-resistant than Therminol FR-1, and to modify the heat transfer system accord ingly; it is equally important to understand that Therminol 55 and 66 are not volatile, highly flammable fluids, but rather combustible as defined by FM and NFPA (NFPA No. 321). Protecting the System There are two major fire protection considerations in changing to Therminol 55 or 66 -- system leakage and possible tube rupture (in the heater). The former is actually part of the larger subject of good system maintenance, and should be considered regardless of the heat transfer medium employed. A tight, well-maintained system is usually a good, safe system! Following are some suggestions to prevent leakage when you convert to Therminol 55 or 66. First, if your system has rotary mechanical seals, you should provide a spray shield and a drip pan with a drain to a collection sump. Canned and seal-less pumps offer excellent protection against leakage. The best way to prevent piping leakage is to weld all connections. Where you must have access, use raised-face flanges with appropriate gasketing and high-temperature bolting. Control of piping leaks is especially important, since fluid-soaked insulation poses a more serious hazard than the leaking fluid, itself. Organic compounds such as Therminol 55 and 66 exhibit a slow oxidation reaction with the air trapped inside the voids of the in sulating material when system temperatures reach about 500F. Saturated insulation offers a large fuel surface in the face of poor heat dissipation conditions, and this, along with possible catalysis from the insulating material (magnesia, silicate-bonded asbestos or calcium silicate) can cause a temperature build-up in the mass. This temperature build-up can result in ignition of the fluid when the space between the piping and the saturated insulation is exposed to air (i.e., should the insulation be broken for repair, etc.). This phenomenon is not fully understood, but appears to occur less with closed cell insulation than with the insulating materials mentioned GEN 000114 l WATER PCB-00038788 above. Closed cell materials, then, are preferred, especially where leakage is a possibility despite all precautions. The principle problem areas are near instrument connections, valve packing glands, flanges, and where cracks develop in relatively im permeable insulation cement adjacent to oil soaked insulation. To obviate this problem, eliminate any source of leakage promptly. Replace leaky gaskets, oil soaked insulation, and re-pack valve stems. Cover insulation where leaks might occur with a hydraulic setting, oil-resistant cement. Install valves, where possible, with the stems in a horizontal position so that leaks will drip away from the insulation. And again, use closed cell insulating materials on suspect piping areas. Tuba Rupturs in Fired Heaters Generally speaking, where fire protection is concerned, it is best to consult your insurance underwriter for guidance and counsel. Likewise, you will want to discuss your fire safety equipment requirements with qualified suppliers of fire protection equipment. Selection and sizing of fire protection equipment is important to safeguard the installation. A commonly used method of preventing fire in the event of tube rupture in fired heaters is piping steam or CO. as a snuffer into the combustion chamber of the heater. Usually a properly-sized line with a remote manual valve for activation is the preferred arrangement. This snuffer system could be-automated by the use of an exhaust stack temperature switch. This switch would then energize a solenoid valve and alarm upon excessive temperature rise, automatically flooding the chamber with a fire extinguishing agent. _ In practice the temperature switch is often set about 100F. over the normal exhaust temperature to prevent nuisance shutdowns. Where steam snuffer systems are used, it is a good idea to employ a steam trap to avoid slugging the combustion chamber with water when the system activates, or is activated manually. You can obtain a basic guideline in the selection of COs protection equipment (again, it is best to consult your insurance underwriter) from the National Fire Protection Assn., GO Batterymarch Street, Boston, Mass. 02110 AC 617-482-8755. NFPA Bulletin No. 12 dated 1968 should be requested. This bulletin should be helpful in determining the amount of COi and the concentration of CO, needed to extinguish a fire based on your specific application. CO, cylinders are available from Cardox Division of Chemetron, Chicago, 111. as well as other suppliers. Some standard sizes are 50, 75, 100 and 150 pound cylinders. Prices usually include drawings of the units, fully charged cylinders, flexible piping connectors, spray nozzle, pressure switch, alarm and automatic control, provided CO,, release signal is supplied by customer device. Piping, wiring, and installa tion labor to be provided by the customer. Recharging of spent cylinders is available at an additional cost from a variety of "Fire & Safety Equipment Suppliers" listed in the Yellow Pages of your phone book. GEN OOOU^ WATER PCB-00038789 Selection of all equipment and installation recommendations should be obtained from qualified suppliers; however, it is important to insure that sufficient COj is available to prevent re-ignition while the heater is - cooling. The Halon Fire Suppression System is a possible alternative to a CO, arrangement because it can be used in closed spaces with personnel in the area. One supplier of Halon systems is the Cardox Division of Chemetron Corporation, Chicago, III. 60611. Again, we strongly recommend that the advice of fire protection companies be solicited in either case to insure proper equipment selection and installation. If steam is to be used rather than the other alternatives suggested above, please refer to the NFPA Volume I, Section 86A (1970-1971) to obtain the volume of steam required. Oxidation-Rflsistancs With a Therminol 55 or 66 system, some provision should be made to prevent oxidation caused by air contact at fluid temperatures exceeding 200F. This was not the case with Therminol FR fluids, but must be observed for Therminol 55 and Therminol 66. Oxidation can result in sludge formation, eventually leading to carbonaceous deposits on heat transfer surfaces and at mechanical seal faces. Oxidation of fluid can develop by air contact in an open, vented expan sion tank. Therefore, we recommended that the expansion tank be blanketed with an inert gas (such as nitrogen) as shown in Figure 4. If this is not possible, air contact can be minimized by a cold seal arrange ment as shown in Figure 5. An inert gas pressure of one to two psi is adequate, as Therminol 55 and 66 do not require pressurization to maintain liquid phase. FIGURE 4 SUGGESTED INERT GAS ARRANGEMENT FOR EXPANSION TANK 000116 0 WATER PCB-00038790 FIGURE S SUGGESTED COLD SEAL TRAP ARRANGEMENT FOR EXPANSION TANK FILL B VENT PUMP You can design the cold seal arrangement quite simply by piping the expansion tank vent to a second tank where the vent line projects subsurface and can be flooded with additional Therminol 55 or 66 to minimize air contact in the expansion tank vapor space. In converting from Therminol FR to Therminol 55 or CG, it is important to remember that many Therminol FR systems were designed with a hot bleed line into the expansion tank to eliminate moisture accumula tion. Moisture accumulation in the presence of hydrogen chloride gas released during the decomposition of the FR fluids could contribute to acidity problems. This is not the case with Therminol 55 or 66; there fore, this bleed line should not be used during normal operation of a Therminol 55 or 66 system. This line should be valved off during opera tion but it could be retained as a convenient means of venting the system during initial startup after conversion. Further protection against a hot expansion tank occurrence would be the removal of any expansion tank insulation and feeder line insulation. Carbonaceous deposits can also occur at the pump seal face due to leakage at high temperatures. The use of a seal flush system or a double mechanical seal is helpful in preventing excessive seal wear. Converting to Therminol 55 and 66 With fire-protection and oxidation-resistance procedures well in mind, let us turn to the matter of preparing the Therminoi FR system for Therminol 55 or 66. Accumulation of debris over the years in the system could cause serious problems, especially to mechanical seals, rotary joints, etc. All heat transfer systems should be cleaned from time to time as a part of normal preventive maintenance. Since a fluid change is neces- GEN 000117 WATER PCB-00038791 sary at this time, it would seem practical to use the downtime to thoroughly clean the system prior to startup on a fresh charge of fluid. We strongly advise you not to simply drain and change, but to take this opportunity to clean your system. Many potential problems will be prevented by so doing. Another reason for cleaning your system at this time is to assure com plete removal of the Therminol FR fluid. A system cleanout is the only sure way to do so. How to go about the cleanout is a matter of choice, but here are some alternatives for your consideration: A. Fluid Flush Cleaning This method is probably the fastest and most effective where heating surfaces are not heavily fouled. It also offers the advantage of not having to introduce foreign chemicals into the system. With this method, the system is drained of Therminol FR, re-filled with Therminol 55 or 66, operated for a reasonable period of time, drained once again, and finally, recharged with fresh Therminol 55 or CG. Both the drained Therminol FR and the Therminol 55 or 66 used to flush the system may then be returned to Monsanto for disposal. B. Solvent. Cleaning This method is satisfactory for cleaning a slightly soiled system, but chlorinated solvents must be avoided. Typical solvents used are benzene, and xylol (caution should be used with low flash point solvents). Do not use trichlorobenzene or perchloroethylene. (CAUTION: ALL SOLVENTS SHOULD BE COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM THE SYSTEM PRIOR TO OPERATING AT HIGH TEMPERATURES). Normally this is accomplished by drying the residual with warm air or by operating the refilled Therminol system at a temperature slightly above the boiling point of the solvent until the residual is vented from the system. Some caution should be used in drying the system to prevent flashing of the solvent with resultant discharge of Therminol from the system. Both the drained Therminol FR and the flushing solvent may then be returned to Monsanto for disposal. Fluid Disposal Monsanto offers an incineration service for the disposal of PCB heat transfer fluids and the flushing fluids mentioned above. For details of this service and how to return fluids to Monsanto for disposal, please write: Monsanto Company P.O. Box 14617 St. Louis, Missouri 63178 ... or call (314) 694-2514 and ask for a Monsanto Heat Transfer Specialist. GEN OOOlla WATER PCB-00038792 Handling: General Information Heat transfer fluids are intended only for indirect heating'purposes. Under no circumstances should any Therminol heat transfer fluid be allowed to come in contact with or in any way contaminate food, animal feed, food products, food packaging materials, food handling equipment, pharmaceuticals or any food-related items. Therminol 55 and Therminol 66: Safety of Handling According to the definitions of the U.S. Federal Hazardous Substances Labeling Act, Therminol 55 and 66 are not toxic substances since the oral and dermal lethal doses in animals are greater than 5 grams per kilogram of body weight. Additional animal studies indicate that they do not have significant skin or eye irritation potential. It is suggested however, that good industrial practice relating to the avoidance of repeated and prolonged skin contact to any industrial chemical, heat transfer fluids, or petroleum product be followed. Therminol 55 and 66 have such low vapor pressures at ambient temper ature that inhalation of vapors during transfer of fluid from shipping containers to a heat transfer system presents no hazard. Vapors emitted by either fluid at elevated temperatures may be irritating as would be the case with excessively heated petroleum oils. In heat transfer installations, the fluids are used in a closed, unpressurized system free from leaks and with the expansion tank vent trapped so as to condense any vapors and thus prevent their escape to the work environment. Consequently, there should be little or no opportunity for workers to experience any contact or exposure. While it is believed that Therminol 55 and 66 pose no serious problems with respect to the environment, as a concerned supplier to industry, Monsanto urges the user to maintain a tight system, to correct leakage promptly, and to exercise care in the handling and disposal of this and all other such products. A tight maintenance program not only protects the environment, but keeps employes comfortable, the working area clean, and the system running smoothly. G6N OOOI19 WATER PCB-00038793 r-----------------------------------------------------------------\ CUSTOMER SERVICE CENTERS AKRON. OHIO 44313 260 Springside Drive Montrose Development Park Tel. (216) 666-4111 ATLANTA. GEORGIA 30339 320 Interstate North Parkway Suite 500 Tel. (404) 432-7111 BOSTON. MASSACHUSETTS 02149 Everett Station Tel. (617) 387-5010 CHICAGO. ILLINOIS 3158 Des Plaines Ave. Des Plaines. Illinois 60018 Tel. (312) 296-6688 CINCINNATI. OHIO 45206 1501 Madison Road Tel. (513) 751-6707 DETROIT. MICHIGAN 500 Northland Towers lVest Southfield. Michigan 48075 Tel. (313) 357-0910 HOUSTON. TEXAS 77027 1301 Post Oak Tower 5051 Westheimer Road Tel. (713) 621-9550 LOS ANGELES. CALIFORNIA 90022 6670 E. Flotilla Sr. Tel. (213) 723-2492 NEW YORK. NEW YORK 10036 1114 A venue of the Americas Tel. (212) 764-5000 ST. LOUIS. MISSOURI 63166 800 N. Lindbergh Blvd. Tel. (314) 694-1000 SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA 2710 Lelayctle Santa Clara. California 95052 Tel. (408) 243-0414 SEATTLE. WASHINGTON 98121 2112 Third Avenue Tel. (206) 622-4203 WILMINGTON. DELAWARE 19810 Suite 204. Bancroft Bldg. 3411 Silversrde Road lei. (302) 478-4600 Monsanto Industrial Chemicals Co. A Unit of Monsanto Company 800 N. Lindbergh Blvd.. St. Louis. Mo. 63166 12/71 Monsanto GEN 000120 WATER PCB-00038794 ) i i GEN 000121 Monsanto 800 N. LINDBERGH BLVD.. ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63186 < WATER PCB-00038795 *r bcc 1010 E. L. Shimley B2Sa John Mason jy?. W. Gann J. J. Rcder/D. E. Rous 1070 H. R. Ford 1650 P. L. Slayton December 28, 1971 1 Mr. Wayne N. Qrubaugh Divisional Purchasing Director Chemical fr. Plastics Generul Tire 5: Rubber Co. 1708 Englewood Avenue Akron, Ohio ' Dear Mr. Qrubaughj We apologize for the delay In sending you the attached notifi cation on the discontinuation of TherminolR FR heat transfer fluid, Mr. John Mason, cur Group Director, Functional Products has been trying to reach you to inform you personally of this decision but due to vacations at General Tire & Rubber has been unsuccessful In doing so. . IP we can be of assistance to you in conversions to a non-PCB fluid please do not hesitate to contact us. Very truly yours. C8 Attachment Cumming Paton Product Manager Heat Transfer, Dieleotrlcs and Process Fluids 6EN 000046 WATER PCB-00038796 CONVERSION ACTION 1. Conversion Target Date 2. Monsanto Help Needed 3 Progress of Conversion Date 3 /(, -? t Action J> Initiated by 3t>cOj t~ 3-4:-?? A S*.:?r?n F*C cm > r /fcv<3 z^t.r I* f Tw Rnt s f^nn Fbo /'*7 Da^ipi F jF'l^K D`SC'j/ 5 >>* m $JV>TF/ /?*// ' /V-* /> L ^ (KOvcvrs f\\'Q hfTbffAMUto' SOUS, 7' 3oo. c*At "/-Si rv^r 5> -v'. ^ A^ryi;^ '*.&`uzy ^ rr** ,v'. **..*/&/ ,<* */'* ' /. \ ; 7 ' ) "L <^v*^$vVtJ^V*- A' ^-z*cj *fC. as/+<{.<*,\,,<y / -TyZ**/^*s*Ul~ / #-/._ .. * A-y/r 6 K>V* r. >2r ,* <**++*+ T- *^ -*C~~4tr -/ xs'o- fv?o u '++.&* r-j.-aT ^ * C * Aao^il/,,., - 7*. ^ j* r* ly" t*' 0 / /iy<y r^sy 7^tWf~ <**+** Ca~~/htfTA/c. Te-ec**^**-*. - __ /f>C , GEN 000511 WATER PCB-00038797 .. i .. ^ -v^4k/ _____ <y-&v> ^ /?! " --____ / ..^j^^O urSin~^ ^ 7- t -<<t ^ ....................................................... . AfrfAfa+^r -^4 ^Ji/v~'^' -/tHv /Uv^. szCt^e^Af-' --**+**' ' --'>* Sfc- ^ ,4tf<^^**^> .^6*+^- ^6<C+// WATER PCB-00038798 boc: 1010 - E. L. Shlmley C. Paton/D. E. Roush 'u?v September 21, 1972 Mr. R. Hansford General Tire A Rubber Company Taxtileather Division Po 0. Box 875 , ,, Toledo, Ohio 43601 -i i1 exhibit y u n| Dear Mr. Ranafordi i As agreed in our September 13# 1972 phone eonveraatlon, enoloaed la a oopy of a svuaaary artiole of the Pederal Government'a Task Foroe on POBa. It la unfortunate that you had a ayatem leak and lost consider able Therminol" FR fluid, Aa Jim Roder stated In hla Feb. 22, 1972 letter, we do not recommend top-up with Therminol 55 or Therminol 60 fluids (and MCS-681 has chemistry and properties similar to Therminol 55), Some customers have had to top-up on an emergency basis - with varying auooess. Without an Inert gas blanket on the expansion tank (to keep out oxygen and mois ture from the air), fluid life can be very short. Also, a signi ficant aoid level In the FR la conducive to fluid degradation of the srijcture. The conditions you described of no inert gas blan ket on the expansion tank and operating over 4 weeks under an emergenoy top-up with MCS-681 are all conditions conducive to sludge formation. The Meohanloal Seal Problem Bulletin sent you on Naroh 17, 1972 by Mr. Dancer may give you leads in resolving your current prob lems. I suggest Immediate and oomplete drain of your ayatem, a thorough flush with a non-PGB fluid (l.e. Therminol 55) end a refill with fresh non-PCB heat transfer fluid (rather than dilu ting on the fly). You may find additional cleaning (l.e. ehemloal) Is neoessary If your eludgt condition Is exoesslve and not cor rected by a thorough system flush (operating 2-5 days with Therminol 55 at your normal 450*7 temperature). GEN 000430 WATER PCB-00038799 Hr. X. Hansford Otntrtl TIn * Rubber Oowpany September 21* 1978 rc 2. As discussed, you may hsva considerable iron chloride salts in your system. Tbs sslts are hard and may be a souree of your reoently experienced aeal and rotary Joint leaks. Spot flushing ,these areas and plaoea of equipment is suggested in addition to a oowplete aystea flush. Jtaolosed Is a eopy of our moat recent publication of the Therain1 Conversion Bulletin. Please note the suggestions on page 9 for inerting your expansion tank. As to the disposal of used PR and PR containing fluids* please refer to fir. Paton's May 23* 1978 letter (oopy attached) for our inoineration eosts. If desired by you* we oan work out arrange- ants for bulk return of the fluids, be prefer using a rail tankoar whioh we have dedicated to this eervioe rather than a tank trail*?. - . Please feel free to eontaot mm at (314) 694.2514 if there are questions. Sincerely, . Paul V. denn Project Coordinator Beat Transfer Fluids Boolosurest Therwlnol Conversion Bulletin PSA Task Fere# on PCBa fir. Baton's May 23* 1978 letter . PVOtkl Blind note to earboneest * . 1. Late July* 1972 the Toledo Plant lost about 1000gilions of FR. 2. Systea conversion requires shutdown of a autjor production unit. This is the prism reason for the extended eaMrgenoy top-up. 3. Couplet# conversion la now targeted for Ootober. P.V.Q. gen 000431 WATER PCB-00038800 bee CP/DER April 4, 1972 (hmtml Tir lb Rubber Co. Textlleather Mv. P.0. Box 875 Toledo, Ohio 43601 x Attention Mr. Bob Ranefords Mr Bobs Confirming our telephone conversation of laat week we wleh to Inelide e bulletin deeorlblng our RC8 681 heet trenefer fluid aa an alternate for Therwlnol 35* KCS 68l eould be uaed aa an emergency top up for your FR-1 ayatew and we are alao suggesting it aa the flushing fluid beeauae of a temporary availability altuation with Theralnol 33, Very truly yours. J. Roder ea Attachment NCS 681 Bulletin Produet Supervisor Heat Trenefer Pluida REC'D APR GEN 000557 WATER PCB-00038801 boot VB Fsptgeorga Kffi J Stapleton - B2SA SL Shialof 1010 C Paten Oetobar 9# 1972 Captain of tha Port Offie Room 501 Federal Building 834 Susaait Stmt Toledo* Ohio 436ot Dear Slrx This lottar oonflru nr phona oonvareatlon of Ootobar 9, 1972 with jour Hr. Richard/4(ittalawlar. - nrscr/*~ e>/r'c,e Wa appreciate jour advising us of the Bunrinol spill of Oetobar 6 (about 50 gallons) which fluid uas ovantuallj ontroppod on tha Ottawa Croak, it is aj understanding froa tha oanvorsation that rooovary oporatioas proseeded swoothly and that jou boliava tha problen la undar control. We wars suable to aaka oontaot with jour offioa until Oatobar 9, as tha masher wa wars glvon to sail was 419-859-6372 (no answer). Wa finally obtainad masher 419-859-6446 and war* abla to auks oontaot. It Is ay wndaratandlng that you hava not idantifiad tha opaoiflo Thaminol produet lnvolvadj that is, whathar a tbamlnol JR aarias fluid or a fluid Ilka Rwrsinol 55 w 66. Tha JR aarias wars ooBposad of tha polyahlorlnatad biphinyla (rCBS). Tha Thervdaol 55 and 66 fluids oontain no dataetabla PCS natarlala. Zt is tha VR aarias whloh has rasalvod unfavorable attention as a potential eavlronawntal haaard. in tha avent tha above nantionod spill involved PCS eontalnlng fluids* bha enolosed artlolea nay be of interest. As I stated to Nr. Attains lor Monsanto has responded to tha linrosslnc eeneern about KBa by onlee be ssrtain United end wood* as indiaatad in tha PDA --inrg;>minnit hgd by anphtslying users to return the fluids for priyw dlninoal by. high Iliaraters ineinaratian. GEN 000515 WATER PCB-00038802 Captain of the Port Offloe Toledo* Ohio -2- October 9, 19;72 If thr r further question* you 117 wish to contact our Hr. W. B. Papageorge* Manager* Environmental Protection. Sincerely* Paul w. aann Project Coordinator Heat Transfer Flulda PWOliJ ncloaureat . Wall Street Journal Article* 3/20/T2 Summary, Fed. Qov't. Task Foroe on PCBa Note to Carboneeei 1. Phonet ^19-259-6372# Marina Inspection 419-259-6448* Coast Quard Station 2. M,v/' / _ /.u^ u ' 3. 4. Notes froai phono cell with Mr. Wittlemeiert General Tire notified local environmental department of spill. The CPA nearest office Is Cleveland* so Coast Quard was called In to supervise oleanup. With favorable winds* the fluid was entrapped in a small Inlet on Ottawa Creek. Qeneral Tire hired someone to soak up fluid with oorn co|s. The Coast Quard doee not know disposition of the saturated cobs. d. Break area around the inlet has boom Therminol fluid as wefcer level at time of spill wss high* then dropped during cleanup. e. Qeneral Tlra reported the cause due to a pump seal failure. No followup with Qeneral Tire by conversion team. General Tire has not oontaoted the conversion team as of Oot. 9* 1972. I did not advise Coaat Quard on the status of Qeneral Tire's oonverslo a. LaJuly* 1972 the plant lost 500 - 1000 gal. FB. b. Has bean using T-55 and NCS-681 for top up since April* 19;72. c. Sept. 18# 1972 we shipped 1 x 3000 gal. trailer of T-55. Conversion targeted for Ootober. No free Incineration; customer notified 9/13/72 (9/21/T2 letter) that he pays freight and Incineration. (In June oustoaer wee planning to ship PR to another Qen. Tire plant) but decision may have changed). 9 T5000 N9f) I O-/a'V WATER PCB-00038803 -71 y , ^,L - J 7 ;" ?'90 & */t- -- c>/*k- &~r--^^`- -- '. Tzts x/+u + -jy' ' lj4*iy-in&/^ <**-* tv^gj^cv^U^ SEN 000517 WATER_PCB-00038804 CONVERSION ACTION 1. Conversion Target Date 2. Monsanto Help Needed 3. Progress or Conversion Date / --* Action ***'**' fa**/ ^e A 2--A* A/i-/ ... F O. 7~- sFy -***-' ^L~f- /=-/L ^ F/l -4.. 1*67 . t^r-\ f Sf$c> *&*+. ^ ,~^- >' flap Syy, _I_n__it_iated by * (OMJ'^ ++4^^*iF*Zr ~T- i S'^ry^C, , X'" ^t*-**^ <s>-r*^'~ 2, oe>o<^+/, T' -i /*o> /*"TO y/S^f, ^ 3- Z*ry(r~f^ ^,uv^v^ /^-'^1^r' cA*y- *S.. ___ Z'- Zcr^^Z' J C /<? v?- > -v S'. , f<f3.T? * . ^CTjr S~ty 4*-, p/ T~J~S GEN 0003B7 WATER PCB-00038805 MONSANTO COMPANY DIVISION SALES TEXT1LEATHER OIVISICN GENERAL TIRE i RUBBER COMPANY P.0. BOX 875 TCLEOG, EH E 0 43601 TEXTUEATHER DIVISION GENERAL TIRE & RUBBER COMPANY 3729 TWINNING STREET TOLEDO, OHIO WHSE BOOKED THRU 0046 n-3e S Oiv ICRMS TT '/OOE 02 020 02 ACCTS REC NO 285256 DT CITY-STATE C 815"34 LUCK BOX CUSTOMER l 0 10033187 12 PPD OR COL DELIVERY FOB TERMS OF PAYMENT COL INIPPFD FROM AS INDICATED BELOW NET 30 DAYS ____ CAR NO IT CARRIER CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE CHOC BAYCU TXI TRL66B0 JL-JJ3RDAN SHIPPER NO 5168661 CM DESCRIPTION. PRICE ft UNIT 1 1 3000 GL TANK TRUCK ; THERN1N0L 55 AT | 84l8-035-10-r0046-47-01-S-01338A : FOB ALVIN TX 3,323.51 GL 8250 24,520.CC LB AMOUNT 2,733.65 i I I ! - EXHIBIT PAGE 1 2,733.65 REC'D SEP 26197Z INTERNAL COPIES DISTRIBUTION AND SPECIAL INVOICE INSTRUCTIG GEN 000521 WATER PCB-00038806 Monsanto MONSANTO COMPANY ST, IQUIS, ftussoun 6SJ46 lUSTOMER * OROER NO. OATE ENTERED DATE SHIPPED 45644____________________________ = c=. --0.47 05-72 INVOICE DATE 1 04-05-72 1 TEXT1LEATHER IGENERAL TIRE P.O. BOX 075 rroLEOo* ohio DIVISION C RUBBER 4360 1 COMPANY TEXTILEATHER DIVISION JENERAL TIRE C RUBBER COMPANY DAYTON AND ST1CKNEY STREETS TOLEDO* OHIO -2=2-1 WHSE BOOKED THRU t DtV TERMS TYPE ImoDE 1446 11 -- 53: 02 02 ACCTS. REC. NO. CITY-STATE CUSTOMER I D. 285258 DT 0815-34 10033187 LOCK BOX 02 PO OR COL. DELIVERY F.O.8. TERMS OF PAYMENT AS INDICATED BELOW jMIPPCD FROM CAR NO/TT CARRIER -HQU1LQN- _LX. CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE ___ JORDAN________ SHIPPER NO. 4891 6? '(M! DESCRIPTION. PRICE a UNIT CREDIT TC CORRECT PRICE ON INV 140440459 OTO 4-5-72 FROM :1.05 TO .975 GL f \\ 2 54 GL METAL DRUM V. T. I THERMINOL 55 AT 8418-055-10-0046-47-01------ 01338A FOB ALVIN TX AMOUNT 108.00 GL .0750 NO WGT 8.10 _^ -r^ f0 ^ ' - EXHIBIT /a -j-i >/9/7/7 PAGE 1 8.10 c GEN 000555 na'fl MR2 71972 INTERNAL COPIES DISTRIBUTION AND SPECIAL INVOICE INSTRUCTIONS AS INDICATED ABOVE. WATER PCB-00038807 Monsanto Dear Sir MONSANTO INDUSTRIAL CHEMICALS CO. 800 N. Undftargh Boulevard SI. Louil. Missouri 83168 Phone: (314) 894-1000 May 25i 1972 t EXHIBIT 1 EXHIBIT /6 z1 On December 15, 1971 Monsanto Company advised your company of the termination of the sale of its TherminolS) FR series heat transfer fluids. At that time, we offered to pay freight costs incurred in returning the Therminol FR to us and costs for proper disposal of the material (by high temperature incineration). Many companies have taken advantage of this offer. ' We are now writing to advise you that, effective July 1, 1972, Monsanto will terminate this offer because we anticipate the majority of conversions will be completed by that time. . After July 1, 1972 however, we will, until further notice, continue to make available our high temperature incineration service for proper disposal of any Therminol FR fluid or fluids contaminated with PCB's*, which your company may have on hand, on the following basis: 1. We will charge 3^/pound to incinerate fluids sent freight prepaid to our Sauget, Illinois plant for: a} Therminol FR series fluids. . b) Therminol 55 or 66 fluids which may contain PCB's formerly in . your system. c) Monsanto's MCS-681 flush fluid used for flushing a PCB heat exchange system. 2. We will charge 5^/pound to incinerate non-aqueous, non-Monsanto fluids contaminated with PCB if sent freight prepaid to our Sauget, Illinois plant. If you desire this service, please call (31^) 694-2514 or write to Dr. Cumming Paton, Monsanto Company, P. 0. Box 14617, St. Louis, Mo. 63178. Thank you for your cooperation. Sincerely, Cumming Paton Product Manager Heat Transfer, Dielectrics and Process Fluids Polychlorinated Biphenyls CP: kl 8 unit o( Monnio Compny GEN 000456 WATER PCB-00038808 J Monsanto MON8ANTO INDUSTRIAL CHEMICALS CO. 600 H. Lindbargh Boulovord St. Louia. Miatouri 63166 Phona: (314) 894-1000 Dear Sir: We are writing to advise you that, effective this date, Monsanto will no longer Bell the Therminol FR series of heat transfer fluids. ThiB important decision by Monsanto's management has been carefully considered. The Therminol FR series of fluids contain polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs). Ab we have previously advised you, studies indicate PCBs may be accumulating in the environment. In some instances, PCBs have been found in food or in the food chain. An article by Carl Q. QustafBon of the Federal Water Quality Administration appearing in "Environmental Science & Technology" and dealing with this subject is attached for your information. Because of Monsanto's concern over this problem, we have discon tinued sales of PCBs where the usage was in so-called "open systems." We have discontinued sales of Therminol FR materials where the usage would be in food processing applications. In addition, we have encouraged Therminol FR fluid customers to switch to other materials. As a result of these efforts, many of our heat transfer fluid customers have switched from Therminol FR series fluids to other materials or systems. . Our action in discontinuing sales for use in heat transfer systems has been taken because of the problems which may arise should there occur accidental leakage of PCBs from Buch systems. We believe this action is in the best interest of all our customers who have continued using these materials in heat transfer applications. a unil ot Monsanto Company GEN 000446 WATER PCB-00038809 2- In order to help you accomplish a change-over from Therminol PR to another heat transfer fluid with the least difficulty, Monsanto will offer you the following special services: 1) We have assembled a team of experienced engineers who will be available to visit your plant on request to oonsult with you on available alternatives. Of course, the decision is and will be yours as to how you elect to proceed. If you consider suoh a servioe would be of assistance to you, please telephone (31^) 694-2514, or write directly to Dr. Cumming Paton, Monsanto Company, P. 0. Box 14617, St. Louis, Missouri 63178. 2) We will pay freight costs incurred in returning the Therminol FR to us and will properly dispose of the material (by high temperature incineration) at our oost. We will contact you concerning instructions about drainage, drumming and shipping of material to our facility in St. Louis. 3) We will accept return of any unopened drums of Therminol FR series products which may be in your possession and credit you for this material at full purchase price if returned to us prior to March 1, 1972. We sincerely regret any hardship that this decision may cause you, but feel you will agree Monsanto has made the correct decision. Yours.sincerely Attachments Howard Bergen, Director Specialty Products Group Monsanto Industrial Chemicals Company GEN 000447 WATER PCB-00038810 feature PCB's-prevalent and persistent - Intensified research is needed to minimize their dangers Carl Q. Qustafson, Federal Water Quality Administration, Athens, Ga. During the past three years, a special clast of compound*. called polychlorinated biphenyls (rci's), ha* claimed the attention of ecologist* and pesticide analysts in this country. These compounds were not discovered in the environment until 1966 in Swe den and 1967 in the U.S., despite the fact that they have been available com mercially for 40 years. Interest in pcb's has arisen because they are freque*ly found in fish. bird, water, sediment, and other environmental samples when such samples are examined for chlori nated pesticide residues. That a wide variety of samples containing pcb's has been collected from England. Scandi navia. The Netherlands. Antarctica, C~cntr.it America, and many different l>.;of the U S. makes them truly ubiquitous pollutants. Polychlorobiphenyls are made by substituting chlorine atoms for one or more of the hydrogen atoms at the The Monsanto Co. stated recently in a letter to Congressman William F. Ryan of New York that as of AugUst 30. It would no longer sell rev's to , customers for use In general plasticiser operations where disposal of the endproducts cannot be controlled. After some lag period--the time It takes to eventually dispose of the products made from rev's and currently in processor's Inventories--the quantity of rev's getting into the environment may be substantially reduced. If Monsanto's former customers look for pc* substitutes, rather than purchasing rev's from manufacturers In Japan and Europe, the projected decrease could become a reality. Carl G. Gustafson 114 Ejvriroftmcr.tftl Sctaot A T#c numbered position* of the biphenyl structure. In the process of replacing hydrogen atoms with chlorine atoms, a large number of substitution combination* arise. For example, three monochtorobiphenyl isomers are possible, 12 dichlorobiphenyl isomers. 21 trichlorobiphenyl isomers, and so on. Theoreti cally. 210 compounds can be prepared by this substitution process; a typical example would be 2.4,6.2'4' pentachlorobiphenyl. Whenever aronjatic hydrocarbons such as biphenyls are chlorinated, the product i* a mixture of compounds, in cluding isomer*. It is quite difficult to synthesize single, specific chlorobiphenyl compounds in the laboratory unless involved procedures are em ployed. Consequently few of the indi vidual compounds have been prepired in the pure form for study. In the commercial process for pcs manufacture, biphenyl it chlorinated with anhydrous chlorine in tall cy lindrical towers with either iron filings or ferric chloride as the catalyst. The by-product is hydrogen chloride; the product is a mixture of several pcb's. The degree of chlorination is deter mined by measuring the specific gravity of the mixture or, when the product is more viscous, the ball-and-ring soft ening-point test is used. The whole pro cess takes from 12 to 36 hours. In the U.S.. the sole manufacturer of pcb's is the Monsanto Co., which markets them uoder tbe trade name Aroclor. pea's are also manufactured in Europe and Japan, under trade name* such as Pbenochlor and Clophen. The various Aroclors are dif ferentiated by a four-digit number, with the last two digit* indicating the percentage of chlorine in the mixture. PrepartlM The three most important physical properties of the pcb's are low vapor pressure* (they have high boiling points), low water solubility, and high dielectric constant*. They are mis cible with most organic solvents and compatible with many types of poly mers. Although some individual polychlorobiphenyl compounds are crys talline, the Aroclor mixtures are either liquids or resins. The chemical properties that make pcb's desirable industrial materials are their excellent thermal stability, their strong resistance to both acidic and basic hydrolysis, and their general in ertness. They are quite resistant to oxidation. Monsanto reports, in a tech nical bulletin on pcb's, that they can be heated to 140 C. under 260 p.s.i. of oxygen pressure "without showing any evidence of oxidation as judged by de velopment of acidity or formation of sludge." The physiological propertie* of the pcb's make them potentially significant contaminants of the environment. For any pollutant, two factor* are involved: acute toxicity, which is immediately evident because of a high death rate or other maiming effect; and chronic tox icity, which is the result of a slow ac cumulation of the poison in the body and is a sublethai effect. Whenever acute toxicity is high, a pollutant will be readily recognized and appropriate remedial actions will be introduced. If, on the other hand, acute toxicity is low, GEN 000448 WATER PCB-00038811 the physiological effect* will go un* bo!iced until the chronic effect! mike themselves evident. When this happens, the problem may hive advanced be yond immediate or easy correction. Aetrte teslctty All itudles of rca'a in aaimali indi cate that acute toxicity is not a signifi cant factor. Their acute toxidties are on the order of those of other chlori nated aromatic compounds. Monsanto hu sponsored two investigation* of the acute toxicilie* of Aroclor mix ture*. In the first, at the Kettering Laboratory at the University of Cin cinnati. Dr. J. F. Treon and hi* co workers investigated the toxicity of Aroclor vapors for guinea pigs, mice, rabbits, and rata. Ail animals survived a 24-day exposure to 0.83 p.p.m. of Aroclor 1242 for 7 hour* per day on 17 of those days. Even after more pro longed tests, there were no severe ef fects from Aroclor 1242. lo the second investigation, still in process, three groups of beagles sre fed Aroclor 1242, 1254, and 1260, respectively, at a rate of 100 p.p.m. in their diets. After three months no significant abnormalities have been noted. Similar studies on fish have been per formed in several laboratories. Dr. Richard Schoettger of the Sport Fish eries and Wildlife Fish-Peaticide Re- aearch Laboratory in Columbia. Mo., reports that 96 hour-n.60 toxidties of he Aroclors to trout range from 1.17 to 60 p.p.m. Compared to dot, whose 96 hour-TL^ toxicity is 0.002 to 0.009 p.p.m. for trout, the rcB'i have a rela tively low acute toxicity. With the more aenaitive bluegill, the 96 hour-Ttw for Aroclor 1248 la 0.278 p.p.m., while that of dot it 0.008 p.p.m. Aroclor tox- icities appear to be inversely propor tional to tha chlorine content of the mixture. .. Shellfish, oysters, and shrimp are more aenaitive to bci'i. Dr. Tom Duke, at the Bureau of Commerdal Fuheriea Pesticide Field Station, re ports 100% mortality of juvenile pink shrimp exposed to 0.10 p.p.m. of Aro- clor 1254 in water for 48 hours. This concentration of Arodor 1254 will cause a 100% decrease In ihell growth of oysters after 96 hours. To achieve the safne effects with DDT in three ex periments, only 0.0006 p.pjn. and 0.01 p.p.m.. respectively, were required. There is very little evidence that pci's are toxic to insects. Studies to date show that they art lew toxic than dieldrin or dot. Aa with fish, their tox icity appears to be inversely propor tional to the chlorine content of the mixture. Baaed on the above data, it la un derstandable why the poiychlorobiphenyla, commercially available for 40 years, have only recently attracted attention as toxic environmental con taminants. Chreola tsilafty The chronic toxidties of pci'i pre sent a more disturbing situation; several chronic effects have been observed. It wu discovered, quite by accident, that pci'i have a toxic effect on chickens. Professor B. L. McCune and his co workers at the University of Missouri found their chickens dying after they were placed in a feeding bouse, parts of which had been freshly painted with an epory paint. Careful investigation revealed that the toxic factor wu Aro clor 1242, a binder in the paint. When Aroclor 1242 wu fed to the chick* it produced the same charaeteriitie effects u chick edema factor. McCune re ported; "Grots pathology induded hy dropericardium, bydroperitonium. en larged heart, liver, and kidneys, and hemorrhage of internal organa. Mi croscopically the kidneys showed marked tubular dilation and numerous cuts." Another chronic effect of rca'a ie related in wildfowl. The accumulation of high concentrations of chlorinated hydrocarbons in birth resulted in dis ruption of normal breeding behavior and in the formation of thin-shelled eggs. A dramatic example of this effect hu been observed In the case of the brown pelican. On the Anacape Islands off the California ebut, no young were hatched lut year from 300 pair* of netting birds. The shell* of moat egp laid were so thin that a dent occurred when the egg wu picked up. There are two poatlbU cause* for the laying of thin-aheUed egp by wild fowl. One it a low calcium reserve in the bird; the other ia the inability of the bird to deliver the needed calcium to its oviduct, where the eggshell ia forming. The caJcium level in the avian bioeystem and the calcium reserve in the secondary bone structure or medul lary bone, found only in female birds when they are breeding, are controlled by the hormone estrogen. A high es trogen level ia associated with the for mation of this calcium reserve. Chlo rinated hydrocarbons, such u dot. VafaM 4, Naekar 10. OetaW 1*78 tit GEN 0 0 0 4 4 9 WATER PCB-00038812 chlordane, dieldrin, and Pca'a, activate enzyme* in the liver which tranaform estrogen into a more water-aotuble compound that i* readily eliminated from the bird'* body. Thi* mean* that when estrogen level* are low, calcium reierve* will also be low, and there fore very little calcium will be avail able for strong eggshell production. Dieldrin and Fca'* are more effective than ddt in thi* type of enzyme-induc tion activity. Aroclor 1262 hu an es tradiol degrading potential four to five times that of p,p'-ddh or technical grade dot. The ability of the female bird to deliver calcium to her oviduct during the last 20 hours, when the eggshell is being formed, is related to the func tioning of the enzyme carbonic anhydrase. When bird* that have ex hibited the ability to lay normal eggs are injected with a metabolite of dot (doe) just prior to the formation of the eggshell, they will lay thin-shelled eggs. This indicate* that dot also in hibits the activity of carbonic anhydrase, the enzyme that controls the flow of calcium from the blood stream of the bird into iu oviduct. Since dieldrin seems to have no effect on carbonic anhydrase, we may assume that neither do the PCB'i. How ever. these compounds delay breeding time significantly. Many ornithologists feel that late breeding has a stronger influence on the reduction of bird populations than does the laying of thin-shelled eggs. If this is true, pea's are a more potent threat than ddt to our declining bird populations, es pecially for predatory bird* that ac cumulate fairly high levels of rca's be cause they eat smaller animali that al ready have concentrated pcb's in their own tiasuea. Other investigators have .produced evidence to show that pci's are simi lar to dot in their activity. Dr. Joseph Street at Utah Slate University hu shown that when pci's accumulate in the liver, they induce microsomal en zyme activity by bringing about more rapid metabolism of drugs, insecticides, and other foreign compounds. He fed rats a diet containing SO p.p.m. of Aroclor 1254 or Aroclor 1260. After 10 days on this diet, the test animals were administered hexobarbitol at a dose of 100 p.p.m. to induce sleep. In comparison with a control group, the sleeping time for these rats wu reduced by 65 to 80%. Street also found that Aroclor, when fed at the same level, will reduce dieldrin stor age in adipose tissue by 90 lo 95%; incresse aniline oxidation by 200 to 300%; and increase EPN detoxication by 430 to 470%. In addition, the pci'a cause activation of organothiopho*phate compounds, which advenely af fect the system. This latter effect coun terbalances the detoxification of diel drin. Normally, when a substrate activates an enzyme, it is convened to a watersoluble form that will be eliminated from the system; however, this is not the case with pea's. Because they re main in the system for prolonged pe riods of time, their enzyme induction activity is always present. In this way the normal concentration of important body chemicals may be lowered to the point of bringing about malfunctions in the system. For example, Street be lieve* that the pca'a bring about steroid degradation, which can lead to altered endocrine relationship!. The chronic toxicity to man is u follows: Like the chlorinated naphthalenes, the chlorinated diphenyla have two distinct actions on the body, namely, a akin effect and a toxic action on the liver. The lesion produced in the liver is an acute yellow atrophy. Thi* hepato-toxic action of the chlorinated di phenyls appears to be increased if there is exposure to carbon tetrachloride at the same time. The higher the chlorine content of the diphenyl compound, the more toxic it is liable to be. Oxides of chlorinated diphenyls are more lit gait--mUl Science A Techno*or osvooo Ngg WATER PCB-00038813 toxic than the unoxidized ma terial*. The nkin lesion it known as chloracne, and consul* of small pimplet and dark pigmentation of the exposed areas, initially. Later, comedones and pustulei develop. In persons who have suffered systemic intoxication, the usual signs and symptoms are nausea, vomiting, loss of weight, jaundice, edema, and abdominal pain. Where the liver damage has been severe, the patient may pas* into coma and die. Sat. N Irving, "Dangerous Prop erties of Industrial Materials." 3rd eiI'tin Nostrand-Reinhold, New York. 196*. The ubiquity of PCS'* is related to the wide spectrum of applications that have been found for them. The largest single use of era's is related to their electrical properties--as coolant-insu lation fluids in transformers. For this purpose the Aroclors are also sold under such trade names as Chlorcxtol (Allis-Chalmers Mfg. Co.), Dykanol (Federal Pacific Electric Co.). Iner- teen (Westinghouse Electric Co.). Noftamol (Wagner Electric Co.). Pyranol (General Electric Co.), and Therminol (Monsanto Co.). Other uses of pea's include formula tion into ballasts for fluorescent fix tures; impregnation of cotton and as bestos for braided insulation of elec trical wiring; a plasticizer in wire and e.ihic coatings: capacitors and askareltspe transformers: and plasticizers of vinyl ch'oride polymer films. Because of their thermal stability and fire re sistance, the Pet's also find application in high-pressure hydraulic fluids, spe cialized lubricants and gasket scalers, heat transfer agents, and machine tool cutting oils. Miscellaneous uses in clude: formulation into some epoxy paints: protective coalings for wood, metal, and concrete: adhesives; and in carbonless reproducing piper. One of the primary manufacturers of carbon less reproducing paper also sella Aro clors in an encapsulated form. Generally the kinds of applications described above mean that the pcb'i will be in many types of products that eventually find their way to the domes tic market. When used in manufacture of ballasts for fluorescem fixtures they will be found in kitchens, bathrooms, stores, and offices throughout the coun try. Wherever office forms are used that do not use carbon paper, one may find pet's formulated into the microcapsulcs of dye that comprise (he re 12 16 20 24 Gas chromatogram A la of a standard pesticide mixture. B It typical of Aroelor 1254. and A + B is tha chromatogram of a 50 : 50 mixture of both. Tha concentration of Aroelor 1254 It approximately 10 times those of tha pastieldet in A. hence it it un derstandable why PCB't were not readily recognized In pesticide chromatograms. Gat chromatograph (Packard 7620) conditions: gas flow BO ml./min. nitrogen; tem peratures--oven. 210* C.. inlet, 230" C., detector. 218* C.: Ni" electron capture detector: 5' x V4" glass column pickad with 8r; SE-30 on Chromoaorb Q 80-90 mesh. producing layer of the business form, pet's have also been found on the transparent receipts used in credit card charge forms. As plasticizers they can be expected to appear in many con sumer plastics. Since the chronic toxicities are so significant, it becomes important to know just how extensively the pet's ire distributed in the ecosystem, tnd just how they find their way into the environment. Rainwater in En gland, brown seals off the coast of Scotland, white-tailed eagles in Swe den. cod in the Baltic Sea, mussels in The Netherlands, adelie penguin eggs in the Antarctica, brown pelican eggs in Panama. Arctic terns, shrimp in Florida, river water in Japan, waters in the Great Lakes, human hair, and human adipose tissue--samples of all these have been found to contain pet's. Volume 4. NunWt It. OooW 1*70 IIP GEN 000451 WATER PCB-00038814 (bus miring ibem a cilia of widely dispersed pollutants. Readily sbiarbed The propertie* of ret'i that mai* them indunrially useful are the ume properties that caiue them to persist in the environment These in clude thermal itabiiity, resistance to oxidation and hydrolysis. aolubility in a wide range of organic solvent*, water iiuoiubility, high dielectric constant, and compatibility with many type* of macromolecule*. Their resistance to oxidation and hydrolyiia also makes pca'a more stable and persistent than out. Consequently, they could even tually accumulate lo a higher concen tration than dot, especially if the use of dot is sharply curtailed in the U.S. The solubility of pcb's in nonpolar solvents explains why they are readily absorbed into fatty tissue and into the liver. Their resistance to oxidation or other types of chemical degradation explains their persistence in the en vironment and accumulation in animal tissue. The latter effect is enhanced both by their insolubility in water and solubility in organic solvents. Their chemical inertness and resistance to metabolism account for their low acute toxicity. But as they (lowly build up in a living system their con centration approaches toxicity levels, at which point chronic effects make themselves evident. It has been established that flsh-eating birds will accumulate large concen trations of pcb's, as in the case of the white-tailed eagle, which has been found to have as much as 14,000 p.p.m. of pcb's. Peregrine falcons, taken off the coast of California, were found to have as much as 2000 p.p.m. In their lipid tissue. When shrimp were exposed to 10 p.p.b. of Aroclor 1254 for 48 hour*, they accumulated 1300 p.p.b. of pcb's, which represents a 130-fold con centration in a very short time. Oysters, exposed to an identical concentration of Aroclor 1254 for 96 hours and then placed in pea-free water for four days, still had a concentration of 33,000 p.p.b. of pea's, which constitute* a 3300-fold concentration. This meins that even though the concentrations of pea's are in the parts-per-billion range in the environment, their high lipid aolubility causes them to collect in fatty tissues of lower animals and marine life. Therefore, species at the top of a food chain will also accumulate pea's in their bodies, particularly in their lipid tissue and liver, in much the same way as they accumulate dot and other chlorinated pesticide*. Because of the low solubility of pcs'* in water, when a solution or dispersion of them is discharged into a river or lake, they will accumulate on the sedi ment in relatively high concentration*. Subsequently, they will redissolve very slowly in the water as condition* change. Therefore, it will usually tike a long time to flush out a contaminated area. Accidental occurrence The reason that pea's have not been found in the ecosystem as extensively as dot, and are not present in environ mental aamples at as high a concen tration as dot, it that pcb's find tbeir way into the environment accidentally. dot is deliberately spread because this it tbe only way its insecticidal proper ties can be utilized, pcb's are not in tended to get into the environment, but they do because their unique chemical properties prevent them from being de stroyed by our usual waste disposal methods. Thus, they inadvertently es cape and become widely dispersed. In Sweden, where the use of dot has been banned, and where the main power source is hydroelectric, investi gators And that the concentration of pci's in the environment is as high u that of ddt. There are sever*! ways by which pea's get into tbe ecosystem. One of these is by incineration. Products con taining pci's, such as carbonless re producing paper in business forms, plastic* (especially polymer film and sheeting that contain Pea's as plasticizen). spent ballasts from fluorescent light fixtures, and objects coated with pea-formulated coatings, all find their way to the city dump or incinerstor for burning. The pca'a do not bum but are vaporized. They are then carried into the atmosphere, where they collect cm psrticulste miner and ire subse quently returned to the surface of the earth, into the riven, lake*, and oceans. In this way they become widely dis tributed throughout the global environ ment. Another source is probably land run-off from industrial wastes and dump*. A third source is the point of manufacture and tbe plants where pcb's are processed into other products. They can escape through the plant veatilition and exhaust systems into the atmosphere and through its waste treat ment aystem into sewen or directly into waterway*. ft a botranramal Sdsnca * Tdiolo*j' GEN 000^52 WATER PCB-00038815 . It is intereating to note that the incifeRC of pcs'* in environmental sam ple, it highest in induatrialized and ur banized area*. Birda whose primary habitat ia the San Francitco Bay area have a larger concentration of pci'a per unit of body weight than those lo cated in Baja, Calif., which ia com pletely rural. Aquatic life in the Archi pelago of Stockholm, the most indui trialized area of Sweden, were found to have a higher concentration of pcb's than fish samples taken from the west ern coast of Sweden, a less developed area. Sediment samples taken from southern portions of Lake Michigan have a higher concentration of pcb's than those from other parts of the lake. Monsanto states that until a recent change in marketing policy (see inset, page 814), tales of Aroclor* were in creasing at the rate of 8% per year. While this increase does not seem sig nificant, it may be important if the in creased consumption was in consumer products and thus would find their way into our normal solid waste disposal lystems. Such an occurrence would mean a definite increase of res residues in the environment, and therefore a marked increase in their chronic tox icity effects. Detect!ess rcB's were not discovered in environ mental samples until very recently for several reasons. First, as indicated above, they have not been deliberately distributed about the ecosystem. Sec ondly, because of their relatively low acute toxicities, their presence was not immediately evident. Finally, they are difficult to delect analytically. The rca'a were first detected as in terfering peaki in the gas chromato graphic analysia (oc) of environmental samples being analyzed for chlorinated pesticide residues. When pcb's are pres ent in a sample they give a pattern of several oc peaks, whose retention times are similar to those of dieldrin, dot, doe, aldrin, and heptachlor oxide. Be cause the peaks were not large or sharp, investigators tended to ignore them until S. Jensen, in Sweden, and R. Risebrough, at the University of California at Berkeley, identified them as corresponding to common constitu ents of environmental samples being analyzed for persiitent pesticides. The problem of the interferences of pcb's with the analysia of other chlori nated pesticides has been largely over come by prior treatment of the sam ple. Several investigators have used column chromatography to separata pcb's from chlorinated pesticides. At a recent meeting, sponsored by the pwqa's National Water Quality Lab oratory, Duluth, Minn., a general pro cedure was recommended for separa tion of pen's from pesticides. In this procedure for biosamples, the sample ia extracted with hexane as In regular pesticide analysis. It ia then partitioned with acetonitrile to remove fats, the cleaned-up extract ia passed through a Fluorisil column and then through a silicic acid column. Finally, the sample is analyzed by gas chromatography, with a chloride-specific detector. In thii way the pesticides are retained on the aillcic acid column for later elution and identification. Research neede To assess fully the significance of pcb's as environmental pollutants, ad ditional research is needed. No one really knows the extent of the chronic effects of these chlorinated hydrocar bons. Some problem* that need to be considered are: Although pcb's are known to ac cumulate in human organa we do not know at what concentration they will begin to exhibit toxic effects. Will these chronic effects be similar to those shown in animals--microsomal en zyme activity, calcium metabolism in hibition, and so on? What are other possible chronic effects? Which of the many pcb com pounds in the commercially available mixtures are responsible for their tox icity? Can commercial pcb mixtures be modified to eliminate the toxic com ponents? Pure samples are required to answer these questions. At the present time work is continuing at the pwqa's Southeast Water Laboratory to sep arate each of the Aroclor mixtures into its many components, and to identify each component. We need to know ail the uses for the pcb's. What is the annual produc tion of pcb's? Our knowledge of these facts is limited and needs to be ex panded. These facts should be known if we are to accurately determine how they get into the environment, and lake steps to prevent further environmental contamination by them. In view of the complexity of the isolation and accurate quantitative analysis of pcb's in chlorinated resi dues, a straightforward, unambiguous measurement of them needs to be de veloped. " What ia the fate of pcb's in nat ural waters? More needs to be known of their partition coefficients between bottom sediments and water. This ia vital if we are to estimate how long it will take for a river bed to clean itself of contamination. It will also be useful when assessing the effects of pcb's on marine life that feed on the bottoms of lakes, rivers, and estuaries. We should also leant more about pc> solubility in water of various ionic strengths. Are present waste treatment sys tems adequate to handle pcb's? Do spe cial measures need to be taken when pcb's are part of the waste effluent be ing treated? By trying to get some of these an swers now. we may find that we are in a position to control the escape of rca'a into the environment before ad ditional damage it done. So frequently, action it taken only after it is evident that massive damage has resulted from a particular pollutant. In the case of the pcb's we may have an opportunity to resolve the situation before that happens. AMItlassal Reading Hubbard. H. L. "Chlorlnatad Biphenyt and Related Compounds," Encyclo pedia of Chamlcal Technology, 2nd ed,, 3, Interscience PubJ., New York. N.Y.. 1964, pp. 289-298. Reynolds. L. M.. Bull. Environ. Contam. Toxicol. 4, 128 (1969). Rlsebrougn, R. N,, et. at.. Nature 220 (1968). Cart C. Gustafson, chairman of the Department of Chemistry of King's College, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y., re ceived a Ph.D. in organic chemistry from the University of Delaware in 1957. During the 1969-70 academic year, he was on leave at the fwqa Southeast Water Laboratory in Athens, Ga., where he studied trace organic analysis In waste effluents. Asa mem ber of the National Water Contami nants Characterisation Research Pro gram, he worked with PCB's and pulp and paper mill effluents. Veim 4. Nwnbsr 10. Oetotar 1970 It* GEN 0 0 0 4 5 3 WATER PCB-00038816 B2SC J. J. Roder B*ia February 2h, 1972 MtiaiNct Trip Report TO : C. PATON cc B2SC D. E. Roush B2SD Pi W| ffllHU 1010 E. L. Shimley 1320 G. F. Fague COMPANY CONTACTED: PERSONS CONTACTED: DATE OP CALL: General Tire & Rubber Company Toledo, Ohio Doug Bulson, Plant Engineer Bob Ransford, Maint. Supt. William Lang, Central Eng. Akron John Crozier, Central Eng. Akron Summary The purpose of this visit was to discuss in detail all the events surrounding the PCB problems and also to give advice regarding conversion of their FR system to a non PCB material. This location has a large Union Iron V/orks heater which is tiRed to heat about eight separate zones most of which are heating calendar rolls used in the production of vinyl mate rials used for automobile interiors. This system originally was filled with a Ucon heat transfer fluid and some years ago was converted to Therminol FR because of a fire at this lo cation. - The heater basically supplies hot fluid to a large storage L.if, tank within its own individual pump. From the large storage ' tank they have another system pump which circulates the fluid to the eight zones throughout the plant. Each zone also has 1tb own circulating pump and modulating control valve to in dividually control temperature in each of these zones. The pumps for these zones are all located in the basement and there will be some problem with drainage at this point. How ever the feeling was that they could cut the lines to more ade quately drain the material. This area appeared to have quite a large amount of leakage and they were cautioned to try to tighten up the piping to prevent leaks with a non fire resistant fluid. Most of these pumps were typical centrifugal Dean Brothers pumps. However, they do have three Eastern Industries can pumps which are sealless and the tendency would be to go to additional can pumps in the future. f)iT0 REC'D FEB i*5 1372 GEN 000380 WATER PCB-00038817 General Tire 2- - Another area of concern regarding fire hazard is in the vicinity of calendars where the large rotary Joints and flexible hoses have a tendency to leak. This would not be a particular problem. However, each of the calendar rolls appears to be equipped with radiant heat located beneath the rolls which could be a source of Ignition should either a hose or a rotary Joint fail, steam snuffers have already been installed at these locations and hopefully this would extinguish a fire should it occur. Normal operating temperature at this location is in the area of 410 to ^50F. The total system has about 2500 to 3000 gallons in the system and I am sure that they will use Therminol 55. They expect to order about 2500 to 3000 gallons in bulk to flush the system and after operation for a couple of weeks they will then redrain and refill with clean material. They will probably save some of their used FR material to act as makeup for their other General Tire locations. The other lo- rbns arer^frttx-, Mass.; Jeanette, Pa.; and Columbus, Miss. These systems will be converted at a later date; however, one of the systems at -iMmmmae was .designed for Therminol FR and will be more difficult to convert than the other systems which were designed around(combustible fluids. Action Required Roder to confirm by letter to Bob Ransford with copy to John Crozier regarding the details of our meeting including pricing information on Therminol 55. J. J. Roder cs GEN 000381 WATER PCB-00038818 .DMC 0U9J8CT ,OHI B2SC J. J. Roder February 24, 1972 Trip Report TO : C. PATON B2SC *3^ B2SD 1010 1320 D. E. Roush Pi If r Quin E. L. Shimley G. F. Fague COMPANY CONTACTED: ' PERSONS CONTACTED: DATE OF CALL: General Tire & Rubber Company Toledo, Ohio Doug Bulson, Plant Engineer Bob Ransford, Maint. Supt. William Lang, Central Eng. Akron John Crozier, Central Eng. Akron Summary The purpose of this visit was to discuss in detail all the events surrounding the PC3 problems and also to give advice regarding conversion of their FR system to a non PCB material. This location has a large Union Iron Works heater which is used to heat about eight separate zones most of which are hoating calendar rolls used In the production of vinyl mate rials used for automobile interiors. This system originally was filled with a Ucon heat transfer fluid and some years ago was converted to Therminol FR because of a fire at this lo cation. -- W(lt The heater basically supplies hot fluid to a large storage tank within its own individual pump. From the large storage tank they have another system pump which circulates the fluid to the eight zones throughout the plant. Each zone also has its own circulating pump and modulating control valve to in dividually control temperature in each of these zones. The pumps for these zones are all located in the basement and there will be some problem with drainage at this point. How ever the feeling was that they could cut the lines to more ade quately drain the material. This area appeared to have quite a large amount of leakage and they were cautioned to try to tighten up the piping to prevent leaks with a non fire resistant fluid. Most of these pumps were typical centrifugal Dean Brothers pumps. However, they do have three Eastern Industries can pumps which are sealless and the tendency would be to go to additional can pumps in the future. . !)& - REC'O FEB L'5 1372 GEN 000380 WATER PCB-00038819 General Tire 2- - Another area of concern regarding fire hazard is in the vicinity of calendars where the large rotary Joints and flexible hoses have a tendency to leak. This would not be a particular problem. However, each of the calendar rolls appears to be equipped with radiant heat located beneath the rolls which could be a source of ignition should either a hose or a rotary Joint fail. Steam snuffers have already been installed at these locations and hopefully this would extinguish a fire should it occur. Normal operating temperature at this location is in the area of 410 to ^50P. The total system has about 2500 to 3000 gallons in the system and I am sure that they will use Therminol 55. They expect to order about 2500 to 3000 gallons in bulk to flush the system and after operation for a couple of weeks they will then redrain and refill with clean material. - They will probably save some of their used FR material to act . as makeup for their other General Tire locations. The other lo- ^---cations arerkfcwr, Mass.; Jeanette, Pa.; and Columbus, Miss. These systems will be converted at a later date; however, one of the systems at inwune was .designed for Therminol FR and will be more difficult to convert than the other systems which were designed around(combustible fluids. Action Required Roder to confirm by letter to Bob Ransford with copy to John Crozier regarding the details of our -.neeting Including pricing information on Therminol 55. J. J. Roder cs GEN 000381 WATER PCB-00038820 /Sot- {J- --r~C<-*~^*W- -Mv 4> / +*-*- s * / WATER_PCB-00038821 STATUS 1, Customer GENERAL TIRE & RUBBER 2.. Address . Toledo, Ohio (PR Location) Major PR User MlCC Bus. Qrp. 6tner MC 3. Other Locations Using PR: Yes | No czi 4. Prior Experience: T-55 | | T-66 1 Other | | 3. Other Locations Converted from PR: Yes 1 \^\ No | 1 6. Any Conversion Attempts by Monsanto: Yes f~^1 No C3 7. Any Conversion Inducements: Yes Komi 8. If Yes to 6 or 7, give details and status _______ 9. Applications for PR (Details) < tn' 'r t /,*./? /(/ V- Ifr.CtSiiA * * >0 i ((.><rr IrrC *' : ' ^ .10 FR System(s) Volume (gal.) Max. Op. Temp (F) pT(^_| 1 sw -- bo*F fits. f<AS i/r.t :/)L II. Any System Peculiarities norr PPrroemcanurti1onnr<s* L s-To tk) r .12 Likely Replacement: T-55 1 V* I T-66 j' ) Other CD 33. Sales History 1968 Total Volume Orders/Year 1969 1970 1971 ~72 rl00 2430 ' Date of last order &0\/. rt 71 Volume of laBt order 2.4<0v 14. Key Personnel (address/title/phone) fy .v j ro.-a Cj p~, - W GEN 000510 WATER PCB-00038822 , / I- EXHIBIT Ar I /FT \(-y/9/7/7 tfVC, I /<?<>*es /--O' r/ <^Zr- ^ Sk<A t / **$& /U*/1 /# -*r" ^ ... . S^'As w~ ^V ^r\ -s jfS* s>*Si^ ytS>'Si> e>< ~Qy~*rtc-\Jt.<\ . "-- *&&'}*** --r<->^.: <(<o.<^* <^/^-^,'<--t. "^f ~S~ Cs-rt1\T - / A&fY , ??&/&& & <. " * .* > : SS *"f rSy, e' '-V^S-^VJ/' yr+'+*<"y - C r -- i> **/ ... . S- szA^'*^+7 /zAj ^ 3/ AsAA-/ *.. GEN 000526 WATER PCB-00038823 t&&t'x`*~~ /><ST>0^.^/ s^cj- <*S/ I^Jii^v'^ . . '"T'T*y > -/ \. e><4*~'*+*^' y^-i^C -J%> / fc./''^''c WATER PCB-00038824 s^f C u & / / s^ot..' / r / ^ y/-<---' j^t+<*t ^ ^jJ^- ,.............. 'tf/jZ' A~" '. .................. . -. GEN 000528 '--&yA` jar'* ...r^?J' WATER PCB-00038825 WATER PCB-00038826 WATER PCB-00038827 WATER PCB-00038828 e co --E GO CO 03 C CO -- "O a> co "O CL to = 03 o CO a. o 03 --03 a> . 2- <o CL |= a> O CL Q3 CO CO g-B'5 c5 gCOr co O -p *C "O P o CO .E ,t= -o 03 -C3 ^ O CL i o 2 5 g S ECO = S ec =co CO n J= o .a o CO t= .22 -- 03 o O -a 3=* to TO c c ra a> -C ra C3 o) O) ro > 03 _d TX E o -03 = CO CO Eo o OO 03 W--. O O o CO t< .E .2 CO a> -- cd *-- c co f- 5 ra .E -- CD =3 _CJ .= >* 2 CO a> < E .5 CO .s 0C3L O 7^ CO >> Q- Q} O JO LxJ I-- CO "o -S3 -S *Caw0>L CL < -2 GO "5c <W o- ~ 1a ~m O CD > C\J Z CNJ < CLCD 5.0 0) 0 -- ?o-=l 0" .12 e h& c7?SS 2 a < ? CD CC Z z: 0 f- 3 < 0 X CQ I QC 0< CD O ZO CC IS O > z 0 X 0 kt/_1 o rao > 00 c TO <U X 00)0 c 0 i 8S aE 0 V_ 00 > < T3 Q) 00 c o ok_ a i. o w a> *= sz = *X 5 4-* . Is O O0 > < t/1 k_ 3 o (D +/ o '3 x X ---C . '1 s TJ 0> 00 -* c ro 8 ro t/i 5 0) s E2 8 0) <u XX 00 l! si C3 CO it: ic r1--^.^ cCDo *--< co CNJ CD CNJ CO co ___I --I CO CO ^s C/0 UJ </? cc. O s I-- o ro LO LO X9CM CO o CO to co ro CO S3 s CQ 00' =3 o --i C/S >-- c o cs cj 5 a> a3 5 > r|s| Monsanto r B2SD - P. W. Gann March 10, 1972 B2SL - T. L. Oossage - B2NK - W. B. Papageorge Thermlnol FR Converalon Project B2SP - N. T. Johnson Week of March 7* 1972 B2SC - J. J. Roder B25C - D. E. Roush 1070 - H. R, Ford C. Paton 1800 - D. R. Hansen 1010 - E. L. Shlmley 1650 - P. L. Slayton 1460 - D. W. Stegen FMC/DED/RLN/OSR I. Project StatuB A. Commitments to Convert 1. 1972 This Week Cumulative B. Actual Conversions C. Customers Lost 1. D. New Potential Losses for 1972 1. 2. GEN 000417 WATER PCB-00038829 Therminol PR Conversion Project ,,Week of Maroh 7, 1972 Page 2. E. New Refusals (Continued) 5. Metalurigloal Int'l., Ino., New Shrewsbury, N. J. Urgent request for 2 drums PR-1 was refused. Customer claims needed to start-up $1.5 AT facility. Customer called Kawecki Berylco In an attempt to recall 2 drums from our Eliza beth warehouse which Kawecki had shipped March 3 1972. . Kawecki's request was also refused. 6 7. - P. New Delays None. 0. Major Complaints 1. 2. ' H. Old Unreported Losses None. 1. Once Through Situations "No Conversion Potential" 1. ' 2. 3. 4. J. Special Situations 1. GEN 000418 3. 4. 5. WATER PCB-00038830 Therminol FR Conversion Projeot Week of March 1, 1972 -- -Page 3. J. Special Situations (Continued) 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. .11 C 12 II. Activity A. Conversion Team, this week's new contacts at 50. C. Effective Maroh 7> 1972 a xerox copy of the Wall Street Journal (March 6, 1972) article on FDA's proposal for PCB limitation In the food industry Is enolosed In all initial team letters to ous tomers D. Sauget inolnerator expeoted on stream during day of 3-10-72 after being down most of past 5-6 weeks. 14,000 gallon storage currently available for tanktruck unloading. Rail cars on hold until incinera tor on stream , reliability ok'd and storage tank level sufficiently low &N 000419 WATER PCB-00038831 Therminol FR Conversion Project Week of March 7> 1972 Page 4. Activity (Continued) E. T-55 availability is in critical short supply. The 5 Mg. to Cona. A1 and 20 Mg. to Stewart Fetro wipes out bulk availability for balance of month. The Maroh 1 drum inveatory of 200,000 pounds in the warehouses is all that la available until about April 1C-15 when theae warehouses are expected to reoelve new stock. At present, the conversion team continues to operate on the basis that T-55 will be made available to meet customer conversion requirements. .. Note: Many customers are in the process of conversion and if they run into an emergency, needing additional T-55 (as flush or refill), it 1b imperative that Monsanto makes delivery. F. A special registered mailing completed on March 6, 1972 of C. Paton's 3-6-72 survey letter, addressed to the "Office of the President" of food related customers (copy attaohed). . 1. U.S. customers 130 mailed a. Status as of 3-10-72. Signed survey letters retd 10 Oreen registered receipts signed and returned 71 b. The following are not being mailed: East Coast Terminal, Wilmington, N. C. West Bend, West Bend, Wis. . 2. Canadian customers. Dave Ooodwillie will handle mailings to Canadian customers. Attachment A1 P. W. Qann qQO^0 WATER PCB-00038832 THU WALL STREET JOURNAL Mender. M.rch 6.1972 FDA to Propose Tighter Limits on PCBs In Effort to Cat Potential Health Hazard By Jonathan Spivak packaging materials don't allow any PCBs. But Staff Iteiarttrof Tms Will Strut Joumul this standard was set before the problem was WASHINGTON - The Food nd Drug Ad-, known and hasn't been enforced. FDA officials ministration soon will propose significant re-1 thus were faced wltn either enforcing the exist atrletfoni en polychlorinated blphenvla, or ing total ban or establishing i new limit. PCBs. an Important Industrial chemical The proposed limit can be met by more care deemed to pose potential health dangers. ful manufacturing control and by eliminating The agency, worried about PCBs contami use ot some contaminated paper for recycling. nating food and food packaging, Intends to es FDA experts insist. The packaging limit would tablish new limits on the amount ol PCBs these keep possible contamination of contained foooa products may contain Moreover, to prevent lo a fraction of a part per million, they say. such contamination, the FDA also will propose The agency Is expected to also propose a banning most industrial uses ol the chemical In limit of 0.1 part per million In Infant food. "In plants that process or make food, feed or pack fanta take in more food per unit of weight and aging materials. are also more sensitive." argues one official. PCBs are made In the U.S. only by Mon Tougher Poultry Ruling santo Co. They are used widely in electrical An existing administrative restriction of equipment as heat transfer agents and In var five parts per million for poultry will be tight lous other industrial applications because of ened to make it five parts pcr-million in the fat their conducting properties and lack ol flam-(rather than the whole bird. This change effec-l mablilty. However, the chemical persists in the tlvely would deereaae the permitted levels as environment after use. and high doses have much as 10 times, agency experts explain. It' damaged lesi animals' livers. Scientists are would mean tnai when accidental commune-1 unsure ol its nsxs to humans at low levels and lion ol turxeya ana cmckens occurs, usually with long term exposure, but are eager to mini through FCBs finding their way into feeds mise any possible hazard. many more birds would be seised and de The new FDA proposal probably will call stroyed by federal officials. for limits on PCBs In baby foods and poultry, Existing administrative restrictions of five as well as packaging, and reaffirm existing re parts per million In fish and 0.3 parts in eggs strictions In other foods. The ban on food-re would be continued as formal regulations, lated factory use would formalise restrictions while a limit of 0.2 parts per million In milk Monsanto is applying voluntarily, so It proba-1 be'ioucne'ned. bly won't reduce further the company's PCB 1 sales. The restrictions would rule out the chem These propcsals atill need final review by icals' use in heat exchangers, as a lubricant, in Charles Edward*. FDA Commissioner, but the hydraulic fluids and fer other purposes except agenrv'e course appear* clear. The nmnnaeii In electrical systems where PCBs can't leak restrictlona would be lasued Initially lor a 60- out and contaminate other materials. day comment period and then would be repub Limits on Paekaelng ~ lished. probably to take effect Immediately. One of the chief issues is the restrictions on When concern with PCB contamination i packaging mt'erlali and packaged food. Cast mounted. Monsanto voluntarily restricted Its! fall. PCB levels rtnging up to 133 parts per million were"found in food packaging maoe use. The company no longer sells It for appitca-l lions wnere tl can escape into the environment.! from recycled paper. Much of the contamina But the FDA Insists Monsanto a TCB sales mi tion waa found to reiull from the chemicals' the U.S. already have been reduced about aa ue In carbonless carbon paper, which then much as they will be. was recycled Into packaging materials. rThls use has been discontinued. But FDA exoerts The regulations primarily would sffect ms-1 say PCB levels ranging up to 10 parts per mil kers and user* of packaging materials. FDA of- | lion have been found in virgin pulp. ficiala argue the packaging industry can meet I The FDA (carea the chemical might mi the five-part-per-miilion restriction with su/lt-l grate from the packaging into the foods. While cient care, ana it will provide adequate public I the contamination level lound Iasi fall in dried i protection. "When people are watching It IFCB | foods, particularly cereals, was far lower tnan contaminnioni it can be kept below five partsi that in the package. FDA officials announced per million." arruet one federal official. The I they would eonsioer regulatory action. agency msiats that If the restriction were sell The new propoaalt are expected to limit below five part* per million the packaging | PCB* to live parts per million In any food companies couldn't meet It. Moreover. IF* at I packaging material, recycled or otherwise. that level that the problem of transfer to foods Current regulations for reclaimed fibers snd first becomes apparent. GEN 000464 WATER PCB-00038833 i < Page Line LAWYER'S NOTES UTTERS PAPER a U P O . C O ., L O U IS V IL L E , WATER PCB-00038834