Document baDR6bxrXnQ113anQMGebm7Kk

FILE NAME: Johnson & Johnson (JAJ) DATE: 2019 Oct DOC#: JAJ209 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Testim ony o f Barry Castleman [Pg. 552 o f tria l day 3 through day 4 pg. 712] In the Matter Of: M ELODY LEWIS and ROBERT LEWIS -vBMW CONSTRUCTORS, INC., ETAL. Trial Day 3 October 11, 2019 1 STATE OF INDIANA 2 COUNTY OF MARION ) ) SS: ) 3 IN THE MARION COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT 4 CIVIL DIVISION, ROOM NO. 12 5 MELODY LEWIS and 6 ROBERT LEWIS, 7 Plaintiffs, 8 -v- 9 BMW CONSTRUCTORS, INC., et al., 10 Defendants. 11 ) ) ) ) ) ) CAUSE NO. ) 49D12-1811-MI-045368 ) ) ) ) 12 13 14 TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL PROCEEDINGS 15 DAY 3 16 O C T O B E R 17, 2019 17 BEFORE THE HONORABLE THERESE A. HANNAH 18 19 20 21 22 STEWART RICHARDSON DEPOSITION SERVICES 23 Registered Professional Reporters One Indiana Square 24 Suite 2425 Indianapolis, IN 46204 25 (317)237-3773 1 APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 3 Kathy Musgrave Farinas, Esq. Todd Barnes, Esq. 4 Sarah Broderick, Esq. GEORGE & FARINAS, LLP 5 151 North Delaware Street, Suite 1700 Indianapolis, IN 46204 6 Nat h a n D. Finch, Esq. 7 MOTLEY RICE, LLC 401 9th Street NW, Suite 1001 8 Washington, D.C. 20004 9 Vincent L. Greene, IV, Esq. MOTLEY RICE, LLC 10 55 Cedar Street, Suite 100 Providence, RI 02903 11 12 FOR THE DEFENDANT KERR CORPORATION: 13 Michael W. Drumke, Esq. Bryan E. Rogers, Esq. 14 R i c h a r d P. Tauras, Esq. SWANSON MARTIN & BELL, LLP 15 330 North Wabash, Suite 3300 Chicago, IL 60611 16 17 FOR THE DEFENDANT BMW CONSTRUCTORS: 18 Edward F. Harney, Jr., Esq. HUME SMITH GEDDES GREEN & SIMMONS , LLP 19 54 Monument Circle, Fourth Floor Indianapolis, IN 46204 20 Claire C. Weglarz, Esq. 21 HAWKINS PARNELL & YOUNG, LLP 445 South Figueroa, Suite 3200 22 Los Angeles, CA 90071 23 24 25 Page 310 1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED) 2 FOR THE DEFENDANT JOHNSON & JOHNSON: 3 Peter A. Bicks, Esq. ORRICK HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE, LLP 4 51 West 52nd Street New York, NY 10019 5 C. Anne Malik, Esq. 6 ORRICK HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE, LLP 1152 15th Street, N.W. 7 Washington, D.C. 20005 8 M a t t h e w L. Bush, Esq. Olivia Clements, Esq. 9 ORRICK HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE, LLP 51 West 52nd Street 10 New York, NY 10019 11 J.T. Larson, Jr., Esq. Joseph G. Eaton, Esq. 12 BARNES & THORNBURG 11 South M e r i d i a n Street, Fifth Floor 13 Indianapolis, IN 46204 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 311 Page 312 1 INDEX OF WITNESSES 2 PAGE 3 A R N O L D R. BRODY, Ph.D. 4 Direct .......................................... 442 Cross ........................................... 500 5 Cross ........................................... 526 Redirect ....................................... 535 6 Recross .........................................544 7 8 BARRY CASTLEMAN, Ph.D. 9 Direct ......................................... 552 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 PLAINTIFF 3 Exhibit 1 4 Exhibit 2 5 Exhibit 122 6 Exhibit 295 7 Exhibit 296 8 Exhibit 306 9 Exhibit 308 10 Exhibit 317 11 Exhibit 361 12 Exhibit 578 13 Exhibit 829 14 15 16 17 DEFENDANT 18 Exhibit 9471 19 Exhibit 9476 20 Exhibit 10037 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX OF EXHIBITS IDENTIFIED ADMITTED 444 444 552 553 591 592 587 588 587 588 587 588 587 588 587 588 591 592 591 592 514 515 IDENTIFIED 508 513 521 ADMITTED 508 513 Page 313 NOT ADMITTED NOT ADMITTED 521 Page 314 1 THE BAILIFF: All rise. (18:30:4 2 THE COURT: Please be seated. 3 Well, good morning and welcome back. This is 4 a good sign. We have everybody here. Today, as I 08:30:5 08:31:0 5 said, we'll begin with opening statements. The 6 Court has allotted each side 90 minutes for 7 opening, and we'll take a break in between, just so 8 you know what our morning will look like. After 9 they've finished opening, we'll break for lunch. 10 So is everybody ready? All right, thank you, 08:31:2 11 we'll begin. 12 MS. FARINAS: Thank you, Your Honor. 13 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the 08:31:3 08:31:4 14 jury. I'm Kathy Farinas. I had an opportunity to 15 speak to you all yesterday morning, and I first off 16 want to start by saying thank you. That was a long 17 process, a two-day process. Everybody in this room 18 appreciates your patience and endurance through 19 that whole process. And I'm sorry it took a little 20 bit longer than we anticipated, but we're going to 21 try to efficiently move through this case for you 22 to give you the evidence of the case and to make it 23 understandable for you in the best way that we 24 possibly can. 25 So over the next few weeks, my co-counsel, 08:32:1 Page 315 1 Nate Finch and Vin Greene, and I will be presenting 2 evidence to you in this case on behalf of Melody 3 Lewis and Robert Lewis, who goes by Chuck. So 4 you're going to see on papers, perhaps even on your 5 juror instructions you got yesterday, that say 6 Robert Lewis. This is Chuck Lewis. And so we are 7 going to do our best efforts to make sure that you 8 understand the case that Melody and Chuck have 9 brought before you and are going to be ultimately 10 asking for you to make a decision in this case. 11 Technology is not my friend, sorry. This is ( 12 Melody and Chuck. This is probably the first time 13 you're going to get to see a picture of Melody. 14 This is when she was healthy and very happy with 15 Chuck. 16 I think it's important before we get started ( 17 really diving into who Melody and Chuck Lewis are 18 to talk about the job that you all have been tasked 19 to do. And all of you were carefully selected. 20 You know that there were 75 people in this room, 21 and you are the nine that are here to listen to the 22 case. 23 As Judge Hannah told you yesterday, we all ( 24 stand up when you enter the courtroom, and that is 25 for a very important purpose. We do this to show Page 316 1 you respect and also respect for our legal system 2 and the fact that you are going to be the triers of 3 fact in this case. It's not something to be taken 4 lightly. It's something to be taken very seriously 5 and to do the job that the Court asks you to do. 6 You will be expected to follow the law, and ( 7 the law in this case isn't coming from myself. 8 It's not coming from my co-counsel. It's not 9 coming from the defendants. It's coming from the 10 bench, from Judge Hannah. And you will be asked to 11 render a verdict in this case after listening to 12 all the evidence over the next two or three weeks 13 and then applying the law that Judge Hannah tells 14 to you apply. 15 So this morning, Mr. Finch and I are going to ( 16 try and give you a road map. This is going to be a 17 little bit longer of a trial, but like I said, 18 we're going to try to move through it efficiently. 19 So he and I are going to try and lay a road map for 20 you this morning of what we intend to show you in 21 this case. 22 As I said yesterday, Mrs. Lewis is not going ( 23 to be able to be here. Her cancer has progressed 24 to the point where she is not able to leave the 25 home much, and she wouldn't be able to endure Page 317 1 sitting here for the entire trial. So Chuck is 2 here on their behalf. He will not be here through 3 much of the trial either, as he is her primary 4 caretaker. He will be here for his testimony and 5 events like this morning and closing arguments. 6 But Melody and Chuck found each other a little ( 7 bit later in life. Both of them had had other 8 families before they found each other, and they 9 were married in 2012. And you will hear that they 10 are soulmates. They found each other at the right 11 time, in their retirement, and had big plans for 12 what they were going to do as they both retired and 13 entered some years, their golden years, so to 14 speak. 15 This is Melody's daughter Maci, and Chuck's ( 16 stepdaughter Maci. She was here yesterday. She 17 had come in from -- she lives in Arizona. She had 18 come in for opening statements that we didn't get 19 to yesterday afternoon. Unfortunately, she had to 20 fly back early this morning for work. But she will 21 also be here to talk to you. And you will hear 22 from Melody via her video testimony that was taken 23 in January and updated last week. 24 In addition, Chuck's going to talk to you ( 25 about their life. He's also witnessed some of Page 318 1 Melody's exposures to what we believe was 2 asbestos-containing baby powder. Maci has been 3 with her mother obviously since birth, and she will 4 testify for you as well about exposures she has 5 witnessed for her mother as well and how this 6 disease is impacting Chuck, her mother, and 7 herself. 8 This is Melody as of last week. Melody, you ( 9 will hear, we're going to talk about some of her 10 medical condition and what she is going through and 11 what she's been through here in just a few minutes 12 when I get into the medicine side of the case. But 13 this is Melody. Obviously she's changed quite a 14 bit in a short period of time. And you will hear 15 testimony about her medical condition. You're also 16 going to hear from Chuck and Maci, as I said, about 17 how this disease has impacted Melody. 18 The story: The defendants in this case are ( 19 going to be Kerr dental tape, BMW Constructors, and 20 Johnson & Johnson. And you will hear us refer 21 to -- there's actually two companies, Johnson & 22 Johnson, Inc., and Johnson & Johnson Consumer, Inc. 23 And you will hear us reference them just 24 collectively as Johnson & Johnson throughout the 25 case, so I don't want that to be confusing, but Page 319 1 they are essentially the entity that we are going 2 to be talking about, we will reference as Johnson & 3 Johnson. 4 We will show you through the course of this ( 5 trial that Melody was exposed to asbestos, we 6 believe, through actions or inactions of these 7 companies. 8 The concept that's going to be important for ( 9 you to grasp, and we talked about this a bit 10 yesterday, is that in the eyes of the law, 11 corporations are seen as people. If a person 12 recklessly or carelessly hurts somebody, they're 13 responsible. If a person isn't truthful and 14 somebody else is hurt because of the untruths that 15 they're either covering or saying, then they are 16 responsible for the injury to that person. 17 Companies are the same. 18 We all understand that corporations exist to ( 19 make a profit. That's our capitalistic system that 20 we live in here in the United States. We're not 21 here to tell you there's anything wrong with that. 22 But it is inappropriate to manufacture and sell 23 products that are dangerous to make money if you're 24 not going to warn the public or the consumers about 25 the dangers of that product. And I want you to Page 320 1 think about things like Drano. When we all buy a 2 bottle of Drano to unclog a sink, there's warning 3 labels on the back of that as to how you should use 4 it, how you shouldn't use it, if you get it in your 5 eye, do this. Baby cribs, baby strollers, baby 6 seats, those kinds of things all come with 7 instructions and warnings to make sure that people 8 know of the dangers if they're not properly used. 9 So we're not here to say that you can't even ( 10 sell a dangerous product. I think Drano is kind of 11 dangerous. It's not something you would drink or 12 ingest. But what we're here to say is that if 13 you're going to sell a product to the public to 14 make a profit, that you also have to abide by the 15 rules that say you have to adequately warn the 16 people who are going to be the end users of those 17 products. 18 If the danger is hidden, if the danger is ( 19 invisible, if it's deadly, you need to make the 20 public aware of that. 21 I'm going to show you some examples of some ( 22 things that we automatically think of. When we see 23 a railroad crossing, everybody knows that there's a 24 potential train could come through there and we 25 need to drive our cars or walk carefully. Page 321 1 Everybody knows this one, Mr. Yuck warns us (18:39:4 2 that there is a danger of poison and tells us who 3 to call if we ingest something we shouldn't. 4 Skull and cross bones, probably the most (18:39:5 5 common or relatable danger sign. 6 Danger -- or warnings have to be something 08 : 4 0 : C 7 that the public can understand. It can't be a in 8 minuscule print and hidden on the bottom of a box 9 or a bottle. They need to be visible. They need 10 to be understandable. You need to be able to tell 11 people how to protect themselves if you know you're 12 putting something into the stream of commerce that 13 could be dangerous. 14 And just because a company chooses to put (18:40:2 15 asbestos in their product doesn't mean that they 16 did anything wrong if they properly warned and told 17 people how to protect themselves or how to use it. 18 Same holds true if they thought there was a 08:40:4 19 possibility that asbestos could be in their 20 product. If they had adequate information to 21 inform them that there is a potential that asbestos 22 is in your product, you need to let the 23 companies -- or the company needs to let the 24 consumers know that there is a potential our 25 product could have something in it that could be Page 322 1 dangerous to your health, and it's then putting a 2 warning on it that gives the consumers a choice. 3 It gives us an informed choice to either use that 4 product or not, or if we're going to use it, use 5 certain precautions to protect ourselves. 6 For example, if there is a product that has a ( 7 known asbestos content and it's put into the stream 8 of commerce, if there is a warning on it, then 9 somebody could potentially take a precaution such 10 as wearing a mask or a respirator if they have to 11 use it. 12 With respect to the defendants Johnson & ( 13 Johnson and Kerr Corporation, we will show that the 14 products that they -- we believe Melody was exposed 15 to and that they manufactured and sold contained 16 asbestos and neither one of these companies put 17 warnings on their products to inform Melody Lewis 18 that she was being exposed to asbestos. 19 In addition to putting warnings on products, ( 20 we as consumers are expected to be able to believe 21 that the products that we are buying are free of 22 manufacturing defects. And what a manufacturing 23 defect is is that if you know that your product was 24 never supposed to contain a certain chemical or 25 element, then you have a duty to manufacture a Page 323 1 product that is free of contaminants. 2 Classic example of this kind of thing is a 3 mouse in a Coke or something like that. It's not 4 supposed to be there. And that's kind of a gross 5 example. I saw some faces. But with respect to 6 Johnson's baby powder, it was never a product 7 ingredient that Johnson & Johnson specified 8 asbestos for its baby powder. It is a product 9 defect. It was a defect that we will show you they 10 knew about, that it was in their product, and they 11 did not then warn the consumers. 12 You will see evidence that J & J had the 13 ability, instead of selling this baby powder, they 14 could have easily sold this baby powder. It's 15 cornstarch. There was never a need to continue to 16 put talc that was contaminated with asbestos in a 17 product that was sold to the public. This was the 18 alternative. This was the answer, and it was right 19 in front of them. 20 Another defendant in the case is BMW 21 Constructors. BMW occasionally performed worked at 22 Melody's place of work where she worked for 23 numerous years. There was a time period, a short 24 time period, where we have testimony from Melody 25 that BMW Constructors was present performing work Page 324 1 on some piping and equipment that was in her work 2 area, and we believe that their failure to use good 3 judgment and reasonable care caused Melody to also 4 be exposed to some limited amounts of asbestos at 5 her job. 6 And those are the reasons these three ( 7 defendants are here, and we ask you to hold them to 8 the same standards you would hold a person. If a 9 person was irresponsible and did these things, they 10 would be held liable. We ask you to do the same 11 for the corporations. 12 I want to tell you the medical story here. ( 13 Ironically, there are some things in this case that 14 are not going to be in dispute. The one thing that 15 we all can agree on is Melody Lewis has 16 mesothelioma. You will not hear any evidence that 17 there is some other exposure to a chemical or 18 something of that nature that caused her 19 mesothelioma. As discussed yesterday, we all 20 agree, smoking does not cause mesothelioma. 21 Somebody could have smoked four packs a day for 22 50 years and not get this disease. 23 It's important that you understand that ( 24 mesothelioma is not lung cancer. It's commonly 25 misperceived as lung cancer. Pleural mesothelioma Page 325 1 is a cancer that grows on the lining of our lungs. 2 We have a very thin lining called our pleura, and 3 you're going to hear this from experts in the case. 4 It's almost like a piece of Saran wrap that 5 surrounds our lungs, and it allows our lungs to 6 move against our ribcage and our diaphragm when we 7 breathe. The cancer that Melody has attacks this 8 pleural lining and constricts her breathing. 9 It also is not curable. There is no known ( 10 present cure for mesothelioma. It is a death 11 sentence, unfortunately. It is something that we 12 all can agree will take her life, and typically it 13 does that between a year and 18 months from 14 diagnosis. 15 The other issue that I think is important and ( 16 you will hear about from our experts is that 17 mesothelioma is caused from asbestos exposures that 18 occurred quite a while ago. And there's a period 19 called the latency period here, and that is the 20 time from exposure to the time somebody is 21 diagnosed. And that latency period with asbestos 22 can be a minimum of ten years, up to 50, 60, 70 23 years. It goes far back in time. And what you'll 24 hear is it's the body's inability finally to not be 25 able to kill off these cells that are impacted by Page 326 1 asbestos. And when that ability ends, the cancer 2 takes over. 3 Mesothelioma is what they also call a ( 4 signature disease for asbestos exposure. When 5 someone is diagnosed with mesothelioma, the first 6 question doctors often ask them is, how were you 7 exposed to asbestos, what ways or methods do you 8 believe you were exposed to asbestos, because 9 the -- it is a signature disease, meaning it is the 10 disease that will appear when people have been 11 diagnosed with -- or have been exposed to asbestos. 12 It's also a disease that's so insidious that ( 13 it's eating away at Melody's body. The medical 14 evidence in this case will show that her disease 15 has spread. It is right now not under control. 16 She has at least six tumors that are pressing on 17 nerves and bones in her body. She wears a pain 18 patch 24 hours a day to control that pain. This 19 caused her to lose over 30 pounds just since 20 January and about 50 pounds since her diagnosis. 21 She's endured six rounds of initial chemotherapy 22 earlier this year and is presently between her 23 fourth and fifth rounds of her second cycle of 24 chemotherapy right now. There are two tumors they 25 can't get to respond to the chemotherapy, and so Page 327 1 she's recently completed rounds of radiation on 2 those two tumors in an attempt to slow their 3 growth. 4 Her weeks are made up of treatments, 5 medications, fatigue, nausea, pain, and she fights (18:48:3 6 to do it all over again the next week. She won't 7 quit. She is a fighter, and you will hear that. 8 Somebody yesterday wanted proof, proof that 9 Melody Lewis has mesothelioma. This is the path (18:48:5 10 report from her diagnosis when she had a biopsy 11 taken in July of 2018. Melody's passed that 12 one-year mark. 13 As I said as well, it's a signature disease, 14 so Melody, when seeing a doctor, was asked, how (18:49:1 15 were you exposed to asbestos, "She worked for a 16 dentist who used asbestos tape and we question 17 exposure to asbestos from baby powder." 18 With a signature disease like mesothelioma, 19 doctors immediately start looking for how this (18:49:3 20 person was exposed. So I want to tell you the 21 story of these ways that we believe Melody was 22 exposed to asbestos. 23 When Melody Lewis was in high school, her last 24 year, her senior year, she started in sort of a (18:49:5 25 work program where she would go out and potentially Page 328 1 work for an individual in the community that she 2 thought she might want to be that one day. So she 3 went to a dentist office and began working for a 4 dentist. 5 This is the Kerr strip asbestos tape. There's ( 6 not going to be a dispute this product has 7 asbestos. It's right on the box. Melody would cut 8 this into three-inch strips to prepare for the 9 dentist in different trays that he would use in his 10 laboratory to make crowns and bridges and things 11 like that. There was a little oven, so to speak, 12 or a kiln-type device where then the dentist would 13 come in and use that tape to put into the tray and 14 make those molds. And so Melody's job was to take 15 this out of a cabinet, cut it into three-inch 16 strips, as many as needed for each tray for the 17 dentist so he could come in and immediately start 18 making the molds for the types of dental pieces for 19 his patients. 20 Melody would then clean up. When you cut ( 21 this, it frays, so she would clean up the area 22 after she would get finished preparing the dentist 23 trays. She worked with this product while she was 24 still in high school, and then she continued to 25 work there after she left high school until she got Page 329 1 a different job. 2 It is undisputed, like I said, that it has 3 asbestos. The other thing you're going to hear, 4 it's also undisputed, this box never had a warning. 5 Never had a warning that asbestos was dangerous. 6 And as someone in high school in the 1960s, Melody 7 had no idea that asbestos was dangerous. 8 You heard us talk a lot about baby powder. 9 And in addition, it is undisputed that Melody Lewis 10 used baby powder for over 50 years every day of her 11 life, sometimes more than once a day. If she were 12 to shower twice in a day due to some activity that 13 got her sweaty or dirty, Melody would apply lotion 14 and then apply the baby powder. This is what she 15 was taught to do when she was a young girl and 16 continued to do it up until the day she was 17 diagnosed with mesothelioma with the Johnson's baby 18 powder. 19 Melody has -- it's kind of a coveted thing, 20 and I'm actually kind of scared to pick it up in 21 the event I might drop it. Melody was gifted this 22 crystal box because she had used the baby powder so 23 much. The powder sits in the bottom. This does 24 not contain Johnson's baby powder at this point in 25 time, this is a cornstarch powder. But she would Page 330 1 use this puff to apply it to her body every day 2 since she was a young lady. 3 In addition, she used it on her children, like ( 4 many people do. She had two daughters, both of 5 them she used it on until they were approximately 6 two, two and a half. 7 And the other thing is, you'll hear, Melody ( 8 hates socks. She doesn't like socks. So she would 9 use baby powder in her shoes to keep them from 10 rubbing or slipping or getting sweaty or sticky. 11 And so Melody would use the baby powder also in her 12 shoes in lieu of socks. 13 There's no dispute that Melody Lewis used this ( 14 baby powder. What Johnson & Johnson, you will 15 hear, disputes is that asbestos was in their baby 16 powder. But what you won't hear is anybody saying 17 Melody didn't use this product. That is for sure. 18 The other thing you will hear that is not disputed 19 is Johnson & Johnson never placed a warning on this 20 product, even if they thought their product could 21 contain asbestos. There has never been a warning 22 on the baby powder. 23 Finally, BMW Constructors, we talked briefly ( 24 with them. Nobody is going to dispute Melody's 25 testimony that she was present when these workers Page 331 1 were around. You might hear argument that they 2 don't think it was sufficient or they don't think 3 it was enough exposure. But one thing you will not 4 hear disputed is that they never warned Melody or 5 the other people working next to her that there was 6 potential that they were disturbing asbestos. So 7 again, not telling. Not warning. Hiding that 8 information. 9 We talked a little bit about this yesterday, ( 10 and I want to stress that, as I said earlier, I'm 11 not the individual who will tell you the law or 12 instruct you on the law. But today I want to tell 13 you what I think the law is going to ask you to do. 14 Judge Hannah will always instruct you on the law. 15 You've been told in your instructions already ( 16 that you were given yesterday that we have the duty 17 to show you our case, to prove to you our case by 18 the greater weight of the evidence. Greater weight 19 of the evidence is something that convinces you 20 more strongly of its truthfulness. It convinces 21 you that something is more probably true than not. 22 That's what we are expected to do. That's what 23 Mr. Finch, Mr. Greene, and I are going to attempt 24 to do in this case. 25 And we will present you evidence to show you ( Page 332 1 that Melody Lewis has mesothelioma, as you've seen. 2 We will present evidence that shows you that 3 asbestos fibers in these products helped to cause 4 her disease. We will prove to you that it is more 5 probably true than not that Melody's disease came 6 from these sources. We do not have to prove to you 7 this by a reasonable doubt or the CSI standard that 8 you see on TV. It is the greater weight of the 9 evidence. 10 And similarly, the judge will instruct you ( 11 about a reasonable cause. Reasonable cause is not 12 the only cause. We are not asking you to pick from 13 these three and find the responsible party. The 14 law is that there can be more than one responsible 15 cause. You will hear testimony in this case from 16 the doctors who will say that asbestos exposure is 17 a cumulative issue, that we can't get into Melody's 18 body and pull out a fiber and say, this fiber came 19 from this company, this fiber came from this 20 company. But what you can do is use common sense. 21 You're not asked to leave that at the courthouse 22 doors when you walk in here. You use common sense 23 and find that there can be more than one 24 responsible cause, a cumulative effect of various 25 exposures to asbestos caused Melody's disease. Page 333 1 I'm going to give you some examples of that. ( 2 These are three potential pollutant companies. And 3 this is a healthy fish in a pond. This company is 4 dumping some sort of chemical in and the fish is 5 starting to get a little sick. Company 2 pollutes 6 the pond. Company 3 pollutes the pond. We have 7 three entities contributing to the disease in this 8 fish and we can't separate them out. And so that 9 is why the law stands for the proposition that 10 there can be more than one responsible cause. And 11 at the end of this case, we're going to ask you to 12 determine if you believe that the defendants in 13 this case are one of these responsible causes. 14 Another one that, instead of a hypothetical ( 15 fish, here's a pileup, right, and trying to figure 16 out who caused this or were there more than one 17 cause, did two people or three people not pay 18 attention, were on their cell phones, were texting, 19 doing whatever to cause this accident. Again, 20 multiple responsible causes can combine to create 21 an injury. 22 And I believe with that, I would like to thank ( 23 you for your time, and I'm going to pass the rest 24 of our time to Mr. Finch to explain the rest of the 25 case to you. Thank you. Page 334 1 MR. FINCH: May it please this honorable 2 Court, counsel for defendants, Mr. Lewis. 3 My name is Nate Finch, and it is my great 4 privilege and honor to represent Chuck and Melody. 5 I didn't get a chance to talk to you before. A 6 couple things you might want to know about me. I 7 grew up in central Virginia. You might be 8 wondering why my eye is watering and red. I was a 9 track runner and a lifeguard in college. I spent a 10 lot of time out in the sun without sunglasses all 11 the time, and it sometimes make my eye red, so I 12 apologize. I'm not trying to wear a Halloween 13 costume, and I'm not, you know, having any kind of 14 scratch on my eye. It's just sometimes it gets 15 red, and I hope you don't get distracted by that. 16 I grew up in Virginia. I live with my wife 17 and our two children in Maryland right outside of 18 Washington, D.C. My kids, they're teenagers, they 19 call me Dad or Daddy, and my wife calls me Nate 20 even though my name is Nathan because my track 21 coach in college decided to call me Nate because he 22 didn't want to learn the name of a new person. He 23 had had somebody he coached before was named Nate. 24 So I'm going to talk to you about three 25 things. I'm going to talk to you about the hazards Page 335 1 of asbestos, what is it, how dangerous is it. I'm 2 going to explain to you who knew what, when, what 3 did people know, what did Johnson & Johnson know, 4 what did the scientific community know, what did 5 they know about the hazards of asbestos, and what 6 did they do with that knowledge or fail to do with 7 that knowledge. And finally, I'm going to outline 8 for you what I think some of the defenses you're 9 going to hear in the case are and what the evidence 10 will show about that. 11 So asbestos ultimately is a mineral. It's put ( 12 in the ground by God. It's been in the crust of 13 the earth, and it was man that figured out over a 14 hundred years ago you could dig it out of the 15 ground and put it into a lot of useful products. 16 It's gone into brakes. It's gone into insulation. 17 The World Trade Center was insulated with asbestos 18 that came from Libby, Montana. It's in floor 19 tiles. It's in dental tape, or was in dental tape. 20 It's in gaskets and joint compounds, a lot of 21 useful products. 22 The problem is that asbestos is dangerous. ( 23 It's very dangerous. It's dangerous in part 24 because it's so tiny. You could fit a billion 25 asbestos fibers in this thimble. An individual Page 336 1 asbestos fiber is no more than a couple of microns 2 long, which is a tiny -- one-one-thousandth of a 3 millimeter. If you think about a millimeter, it's 4 like the thickness of a hair. You can't see an 5 asbestos fiber. You can't even see a million 6 asbestos fibers. If you put a billion asbestos 7 fibers, you know, you crunch them together, it 8 would fill up this thimble. 9 It's also a known carcinogen. The ( 10 International Agency for Research on Cancer, or 11 IARC, has called asbestos a carcinogen ever since 12 IARC was created back in the early '70s. But it's 13 been known that asbestos is a carcinogen for far 14 longer than that, and I'll tell you about that in a 15 minute. 16 Another thing that makes asbestos so dangerous ( 17 is it doesn't have what we call onion properties. 18 You know if you're cutting an onion, slicing an 19 onion, and when you slice an onion, your eyes might 20 get red like mine and water. You might sniff a 21 little bit. You might -- even if you're not 22 allergic to the onion, you're going to know there's 23 something about the onion in the air that is doing 24 something to your body. 25 Asbestos, you don't know you're inhaling it. ( Page 337 1 You don't know you're breathing it. It doesn't 2 cause any adverse reaction immediately. You can be 3 exposed to a ton of asbestos and not know it. You 4 can be exposed to over a million fibers and not 5 even be able to see it in the air. There's no way 6 to see it or smell it or taste it or know that 7 you're being exposed to it. And that's why it is 8 so important to warn people of the hazards of it. 9 So with all these manmade asbestos-containing ( 10 products, there are manmade diseases. There are 11 two kinds of what's called nonmalignant diseases. 12 Asbestosis, is a scarring of the lungs that can be 13 fatal. Pleural plaque is a scarring on the pleura 14 of the lungs, which is the lining around the lungs, 15 which is the same place that mesothelioma occurs. 16 Pleural plaques can be -- usually is not fatal. 17 It's usually more of a marker of asbestos exposure, 18 but not everyone who is exposed to asbestos has 19 asbestosis or pleural plaques. 20 It also causes two different kinds of cancer. ( 21 It causes lung cancer, which is the same kind of 22 cancer you get if you smoke a lot of cigarettes. 23 But asbestos combined with cigarette smoking is 24 like throwing gasoline on a fire. It makes -- for 25 lung cancer at least, asbestos makes smoking much Page 338 1 worse. For pleural mesothelioma, asbestos is 2 called a signature disease of pleural mesothelioma. 3 It's been known as a signature disease. 4 Mesothelioma is a signature disease of asbestos 5 exposure. It's been known that since 1960. 6 Pleural mesothelioma, like I said before and ( 7 as Kathy pointed out, is a cancer of the lining 8 around the lung. Not the tissue in the lung. 9 Every doctor who's going to testify in this case on 10 both sides agrees, smoking does not cause 11 mesothelioma. 12 But the thing about mesothelioma is it's the ( 13 worst disease, one of the worst cancers known to 14 man. I hate to say in front of Chuck, but it's - 15 Melody's not going to survive this. It is -- you 16 know, you hear from doctors, what's the five-year 17 survival rate for various kinds of cancers. For 18 mesothelioma, the five-year survival rate is 19 1 percent. And most people die within a year or 20 two of developing it, and they die a very horrible, 21 painful death, because what literally happens is 22 the cancer creates this rind around your lungs and 23 it squeezes your lungs, and you can't breathe 24 anymore. It's a truly horrible way to die. There 25 will be no dispute from any of the defendants about Page 339 1 that. 2 The other thing that's terrible about 3 mesothelioma, it's the worst disease, but it's 4 caused by the least amount of asbestos exposure. 5 One day of asbestos exposure has been demonstrated 6 to cause mesothelioma in the medical and scientific 7 literature. 8 Asbestos fibers are so tiny, they are 9 microscopic. They get into the breathing system 10 and they get out to the pleura of the lungs. 11 There's five different types of asbestos fibers 12 that you may hear about in this case. There is 13 amosite and crocidolite and chrysotile, which were 14 intentionally added to many types of products. 15 Chrysotile was in something like 95 to 98 percent 16 of the asbestos products ever made, including 17 Kerr's dental tape. 18 Then there are what's called the asbestos 19 contaminant minerals, which is actinolite and 20 tremolite and anthophyllite. Those typically 21 aren't intended to be in products, but they can be 22 contaminants. Tremolite is a well-known 23 contaminant in chrysotile asbestos. It's also a 24 well-known contaminant of talc. Anthophyllite 25 asbestos is a well-known contaminant of talc. Page 340 1 All of these asbestos fibers can be deadly if 2 inhaled. All of these scientific agencies all 3 around the world, the Occupational Safety and 4 Health Administration has said there's no safe 5 level of asbestos exposure. There are 10,000 6 articles in the medical literature. They've looked 7 and looked and looked for what is the lowest level 8 you can get to to find a safe level of asbestos 9 exposure, and OSHA says, we'll permit a certain 10 amount of asbestos exposure because it will keep 11 people from getting disease asbestosis. But even 12 at the permissible exposure limit, people are still 13 going to get mesothelioma. Our government doesn't 14 protect us from everything. You're allowed to go 15 out and drive 55 miles an hour on the highway, but 16 we know people are going to get hurt doing that. 17 But there is no safe level of asbestos 18 exposure. The National Institute for Occupational 19 Safety and Health has stated that. I told you 20 about IARC, the International Agency for Research 21 on Cancer. Again, no safe level of exposure to 22 asbestos. The U.S. Surgeon General has said that. 23 The National Cancer Institute, the World Health 24 Organization, the United States EPA, even the EPA 25 today still states there is no safe level of Page 341 1 exposure to asbestos. And the British Thoracic 2 Society. 3 This isn't scientific organizations or ( 4 regulatory bodies just being overly cautious or 5 overly safe. There is medical literature that 6 shows a few hours of asbestos exposure has caused 7 mesothelioma in some people. Luckily it's a rare 8 disease. It's a huge risk for a tiny percentage of 9 the people who were exposed to it. Maybe 3,000 10 people total in the United States will develop 11 mesothelioma from past asbestos exposure. But if 12 there is mesothelioma, it's almost certainly an 13 asbestos exposure that was a cause of it. 14 Johnson & Johnson outside the courtroom agrees ( 15 and knows that there is no known safe level of 16 asbestos exposure when it comes to the disease 17 mesothelioma. They have put out literature to that 18 effect, I don't think -- they may bring doctors in 19 here to testify that might dispute that, but in the 20 real world, outside the courtroom, they agree, 21 there is no safe level of asbestos exposure. 22 Kerr, by contrast, will say, we didn't know ( 23 asbestos was bad. We didn't know it was bad when 24 Melody was working with it in the 1960s. I think 25 you're going to have to listen to the evidence, and Page 342 1 whether it was known or knowable, I find that hard 2 to believe, but we'll let them tell their story. 3 Johnson & Johnson agrees that any amount of ( 4 asbestos in baby powder is a health risk. Their 5 position in the courtroom may be different, but 6 their position is there has never been asbestos in 7 baby powder, not one fiber ever, ever, ever, from 8 beginning of time, ever, never one single asbestos 9 fiber. That's what their position is. I think 10 that the evidence is going to be different than 11 that. 12 So in its most recent publication on causes of ( 13 mesothelioma and asbestos-related disease -- and 14 this came out seven years ago. And I told you IARC 15 has been calling asbestos a carcinogen since it was 16 first created. One of the very first chemicals 17 they said was a carcinogen was asbestos in the 18 early '70s. Scientists and doctors have known that 19 asbestos caused cancer for 30 years before that, 20 but IARC wasn't even created until the late '60s. 21 It said asbestos fibers cause mesothelioma and talc 22 that contains asbestos fibers, asbestiform fibers, 23 causes mesothelioma. 24 One of the very first witnesses, one of the ( 25 first or second witnesses you'll hear from is Page 343 1 Arnold Brody. Arnold Brody is not going to talk to 2 you about the specifics of Melody's case and 3 Melody's disease. He is a cell biologist who has 4 for 40 years gotten funding from the government to 5 study the causes of cancer at the molecular and 6 biological level, and he has studied asbestos. 7 He's got over 150 peer-reviewed papers in the 8 literature, many of them having to do with 9 asbestos. He's been funded repeatedly by the 10 National Institutes of Health. And I think you 11 will enjoy learning from him about how it is that 12 asbestos fibers cause cancer and disease. 13 This is a picture that Dr. Brody has that ( 14 shows a chrysotile asbestos fiber, a single fiber, 15 causing the genetic damage to a cell. And 16 ultimately that genetic damage leads to other 17 genetic damages, which can ultimately, through an 18 unbroken chain of events, lead to mesothelioma in a 19 person. 20 The way cancer works is the damage occurs, ( 21 then you might get exposed to another fiber of 22 asbestos and more damage occurs. And then over 23 time, at some point a tumor develops. Usually a 24 tumor develops maybe 15 years before it's 25 detectable in a human being. So the last 15 years, Page 344 1 if you're exposed to asbestos before you're 2 diagnosed with mesothelioma, usually you don't 3 really contribute to the disease. But any exposure 4 that happened more than 15 years ago, you'll hear 5 from Melody when you hear her by video, she started 6 using -- she worked with Kerr dental tape in the 7 mid '60s, and she started using baby powder in 8 the -- around the same time frame. And you'll hear 9 that those exposures, long ago, can add up and 10 cause mesothelioma. 11 So all the asbestos fibers are toxic. I ( 12 showed you the picture of the fiber types. They 13 all can damage chromosomes. They can all cause 14 cancer. They can all get to the parts of the lung 15 where mesothelioma occurs. They can all interfere 16 with your cancer defense mechanisms. I don't think 17 you'll hear a lot of dispute about that. 18 But what you may be thinking is, you know, ( 19 Mr. Finch, you're telling us about what -- how bad 20 asbestos it. I mean, it's clearly one of the most 21 dangerous minerals and chemicals ever known to man. 22 But is it really fair to judge their conduct based 23 on what we know today? And you know what, you're 24 exactly right. I'm not asking you to judge their 25 conduct based on what we know about asbestos today. Page 345 1 I'm not asking you to do that at all. 2 When I was a kid, you remember the Back to the 3 Future movies, the time machine, the DeLorean that 4 you could get into and take you back into the 5 1950s? I'd like us to hop in this time machine and 6 go back into the last century, but not to the last 7 century meaning the 20th century. I want to go 8 back all the way to 1898. In 1898, there was a 9 British Inspector of Factories publication that 10 stated asbestos is harmful. 11 By 1924, the medical and scientific community 12 had concluded that asbestosis was a disease caused 13 by asbestos exposure and that asbestosis could be 14 fatal. 15 In 1930, there was a big, what's called 16 epidemiology study, to study a population of 17 people, not just a medical report, where they 18 studied a group of people, stated clearly that 19 breathing asbestos can cause fatal disease, that a 20 key to preventing at least asbestosis is to reduce 21 the amount of asbestos exposure hopefully to zero 22 and to educate the workers about the potential 23 dangers. That's been known since the 1930s. 24 That's just a basic good industrial hygiene 25 practice is always tell the people that might be Page 346 1 exposed to something dangerous that there's a 2 danger out there. 3 In the 1940s and 1950s, the scientific ( 4 community figured out that asbestos causes lung 5 cancer. Once something is a carcinogen, then there 6 isn't a safe level of exposure to it. And this 7 wasn't hidden in some drawer somewhere. This was 8 in the journal of the American Medical Association. 9 The same doctor who proved the linking between 10 cigarette smoking and lung cancer in the same year, 11 Dr. Sir Richard Doll, proved that asbestos caused 12 lung cancer. So this was 11, 12 years before 13 Melody Lewis ever came in contact with Kerr dental 14 tape. It was known to anybody who could go to the 15 library and look that asbestos caused cancer. 16 Now, you have to have some kind of -- I ( 17 wouldn't expect a ten-year-old or 12-year-old or 18 high school kid to be able to figure that out, but 19 certainly a corporation which has any kind of 20 researchers should know that and figure that out. 21 Johnson & Johnson clearly knew that. 22 By 1960, the disease mesothelioma, the ( 23 specific disease that Melody has, was linked 24 conclusively to asbestos exposure. It was a big 25 study out of South Africa, 33 patients with Page 347 1 asbestos exposure, ranging from just washing their 2 husband's clothes to living a few miles away from 3 an asbestos mine. 4 And in 1964, this gentleman, Irving Selikoff, ( 5 you'll hear a lot about him, he was a famous 6 researcher in New York City, Mount Sinai School of 7 Medicine, put out -- put together a big conference 8 where doctors from all over the world came 9 together. It was held in New York City, it was 10 widely publicized in the papers. This is a reprint 11 of that book. This book was published in 1965. 12 This is a reprint from a few years later. But all 13 these scientific doctors and medical researchers 14 came together and said that asbestos caused 15 mesothelioma, there's no safe level of exposure to 16 it, it's harmful, and people should be aware of 17 this. 18 And specifically there's a chapter in here -- ( 19 this book was published in 1965; the conference 20 article was published in '64 -- that talked about 21 how asbestos cancer hazards could be applicable to 22 dental technicians, laboratory technicians. 23 "Asbestosis and asbestos cancer hazards related to 24 an inhalatory exposure to asbestos exists not only 25 for asbestos workers proper, engaged in the direct Page 348 1 and regular production, processing, handling, and 2 using of asbestos-containing materials, but also 3 for a large number of individuals who may sustain 4 such contacts on an incidental basis. Such persons 5 may be employed permanently or temporarily in or 6 near operations where asbestos and asbestos 7 products are produced or handled and where they 8 inhale, therefore, air polluted with asbestos 9 dust." 10 And they have a list of people that are at ( 11 risk in that. One of them includes laboratory 12 technicians, like Melody Lewis who was a part-time 13 lab technician in a dental lab. 1964. 14 So Kerr strip asbestos tape. Kerr Corporation ( 15 has been around for over a hundred years. 16 Throughout its history it sold dental products. 17 Like Kathy said, there's no dispute that it sold a 18 product called Kerr strip asbestos that was used to 19 help make crown moldings in a process called the 20 cristobalite technique. In contrast to Johnson & 21 Johnson, Kerr doesn't deny that there's asbestos in 22 the dental tape. They just say that there wasn't 23 enough asbestos to cause disease or that they 24 didn't know asbestos was hazardous when they were 25 putting -- selling this to the market. Page 349 1 They never researched the health hazards of ( 2 asbestos before selling this product. They never 3 tested how many asbestos fibers would get in the 4 air if you handled or cut or just touched a piece 5 of asbestos dental tape. They never did any 6 testing like that at any time that would have done 7 Melody any good. And they never warned about the 8 cancer hazard from asbestos. You would think that 9 two years after this big well-publicized conference 10 in New York in 1964 that any company in the world 11 that sold something with asbestos in it would have 12 given people the choice to warn themselves. I 13 mean, baseball tickets have had warnings on the 14 back for 50 or 60 years. How many people get hit 15 with a foul ball? Every ticket you ever buy to any 16 baseball game, from the '50s on, has a warning. So 17 I believe the evidence will show that Kerr never 18 put a warning on its asbestos dental tape. We 19 believe that's negligent conduct, ladies and 20 gentlemen, and that's what the evidence will show. 21 Kerr may defend itself with a variety of ( 22 arguments. They may say, well, Melody's 23 mesothelioma wasn't caused by asbestos. It was 24 idiopathic; we don't know what caused it. I think 25 the evidence will be that for treating doctors who Page 350 1 were asking about asbestos exposure and the 2 pathologist who looked at her tissue certainly will 3 conclude that it was asbestos that caused it. 4 They may argue that, well, chrysotile is like ( 5 asbestos light, it's not as dangerous as the 6 amphibole asbestos. You remember I showed you the 7 five different types of asbestos. The one 8 chrysotile was the one that went into 95 percent of 9 the products. Sometimes companies that make 10 products that are primarily chrysotile or only 11 chrysotile will say, well, chrysotile is asbestos 12 light, it doesn't cause mesothelioma or it can only 13 cause mesothelioma at hugely high doses. Well, the 14 fact of the matter is, the scientific agencies 15 around the world don't agree with that, and I think 16 that even their experts will concede that there's 17 no safe level of exposure to asbestos, even for 18 chrysotile. 19 They may say, well -- there's something called ( 20 a threshold limit value, or a TLV. There was not 21 enough asbestos to reach this threshold limit 22 value. The fact of the matter is, they never 23 tested the tape to see how much it was. And like I 24 said, there's no safe level when it comes to 25 asbestos and it comes to cancer. Page 351 1 TLV, I think the way TLV or permissible ( 2 exposure limit, if there is really such a thing, 3 you put it right there on the bottle. I had a 4 little bit of a cough yesterday and so I took 5 Robitussin. And on the bottle, it says you can 6 have this much Robitussin, if you're an adult, you 7 can have one of these; if you're a kid, you can 8 have half. That's a real threshold limit value. 9 This is exactly how much. It's been tested, we 10 know how much you can take and not be harmed. But 11 there's never been a threshold limit value that 12 says some doctor says this is how much asbestos is 13 safe for you. You may hear that argument. 14 You may hear an argument that there are no ( 15 asbestos markers in the lungs, meaning there's no 16 asbestosis or pleural plaques. And both their 17 expert and our expert, who is a doctor named 18 Richard Kradin, who is one of the foremost experts 19 in the world on asbestos disease. He is not only a 20 pathologist, he's a pulmonologist. He wrote this 21 textbook on pulmonary pathology that deals with, 22 among other things, mesothelioma. He's published 23 multiple peer-reviewed articles specific to 24 asbestos disease. 25 And he will tell you this idea that chrysotile ( Page 352 1 is safe, that there's a safe level of exposure to 2 asbestos or that some kind of asbestos exposure 3 doesn't count or doesn't cause mesothelioma is 4 just -- I don't know how he would say it in the 5 courtroom, but in the real world, he'd say that's 6 hogwash. So he will demonstrate to you that this 7 mesothelioma is asbestos-related and the asbestos 8 exposures that Melody experienced were causes of 9 her mesothelioma. 10 They may take the argument, either Johnson & ( 11 Johnson or Kerr, that, well, there's never been an 12 epidemiology study of asbestos dental tape. And 13 what that means is they've never taken up - 14 they've never gone out and found enough people who 15 used asbestos dental tape and exposed them to 16 asbestos in the tape and followed them up. They 17 said, well, there's no study specific to that. 18 Well, the fact of the matter is, there's been ( 19 3,000 products that had asbestos in it. You don't 20 need an epidemiology study to know, once you know 21 there's asbestos in the product, to know that that 22 product that has asbestos in it is dangerous. It's 23 like saying with a cupcake, if you know that 24 there's rat poison in the cupcake, you don't need a 25 study of rat poison in a cookie or rat poison in a Page 353 1 doughnut or rat poison in a -- any other kind of 2 food to know that it's dangerous. 3 I'm sure that the defendants will blame ( 4 Melody's employer, Delco Electronics, for not 5 protecting her from asbestos. It's possible there 6 may have been incidental asbestos exposure that we 7 don't know about, but that doesn't mean that the 8 others are off the hook. You will hear that there 9 wasn't any kind of identifiable asbestos exposure 10 for Melody other than what we are talking about 11 here in the court. There may be other places where 12 people were working with asbestos in and around 13 Delco, but, you know, while asbestos can travel 14 some distance in the air, it can't travel from this 15 room to the next unless there's somebody actively 16 disturbing it. So we're not saying that there's no 17 possibility she might have breathed some asbestos 18 fibers at Delco. What we're saying is that their 19 asbestos exposures were causes too. 20 And finally, there may be an argument, well, ( 21 women who get mesothelioma, it's not caused by 22 asbestos exposure because they -- in men, it's much 23 easier to document a past asbestos exposure than 24 women. The medical literature is that 90 percent 25 of men, they can find some past asbestos exposure. Page 354 1 Sometimes the person dies before you can interview 2 them. Sometimes they don't remember or know about 3 asbestos exposure. The perfect example is cosmetic 4 talc. Nobody knew there was a possibility of 5 asbestos exposure in Johnson's baby powder, at 6 least in modern times, until very recently. There 7 were some publications back in the '70s, which I'll 8 talk to you about, but the fact of the matter is is 9 that, yes, men get more mesothelioma than women 10 because they're more likely asbestos exposed to 11 asbestos. Just because women can't recall asbestos 12 exposure in their past doesn't mean they weren't 13 exposed to asbestos. It doesn't mean that a woman 14 who is exposed to asbestos, that her mesothelioma 15 is not asbestos-related. 16 So I talked about Dr. Kradin. We talked about ( 17 where chrysotile and asbestos fibers get to. 18 Again, there is no safe level of asbestos exposure. 19 They may bring in an industrial hygienist and say 20 it says, well, this is a tiny amount of asbestos 21 exposure compared to ambient air. 22 The fact of the matter is, any amount of ( 23 asbestos exposure -- yes, there might be one 24 asbestos fiber floating around in a cubic meter of 25 air in a building because there might be asbestos Page 355 1 floor tiles in the building. But in general, the 2 types of exposures you get from working with an 3 asbestos product, cutting it and handling it, using 4 baby powder are tens to hundreds of thousands of 5 times higher than the amount of asbestos you might 6 find in ambient air, background air. And all of 7 these scientific agencies just say, there's no safe 8 level when it comes to asbestos. 9 So we talked about Kerr. BMW Constructors, ( 10 they are going to say there's no evidence that 11 Melody was around when they were doing something to 12 disturb asbestos. Her testimony is that she 13 remembers them being on the work site and she 14 remembers what she calls a white chalky dust. And 15 you'll have to decide for yourself whether that was 16 more likely than not disturbing asbestos insulation 17 or not. This is a potential asbestos exposure. 18 You are the triers of the fact. You have to decide 19 what caused this woman's asbestos cancer. They're 20 one of the potential causes. 21 Finally, we come to Johnson & Johnson. ( 22 Johnson & Johnson agrees that there is no known 23 safe level of asbestos exposure to asbestos. They 24 have put out documents that say the mesothelioma is 25 exclusively caused by asbestos exposure. But their Page 356 1 position is that there has never been, ever, any 2 asbestos fibers found in any of their baby powder. 3 But here's the thing, talc, like asbestos, is ( 4 a rock that's mined out of the ground. It's kind 5 of like geological first cousins to asbestos. In a 6 lot of parts of the world, talc can be intermingled 7 with and contaminated with asbestos. In fact, the 8 chemical formula for talc is very, very similar, if 9 not identical, to the chemical formula for 10 anthophyllite asbestos, which is why if you have a 11 talc mine, you have to be very careful to either 12 warn people that there might be asbestos in the 13 talc or not use it or do everything you possibly 14 can to find the asbestos that's there. 15 So Johnson & Johnson had -- if you think of ( 16 them as the pharmaceutical company, the baby 17 products company, over a significant period of 18 time, from the late '60s up until the late '80s, 19 they were a mining company. They owned a mine in 20 Vermont. This is the state of Vermont. Up near 21 Ludlow, Vermont, Johnson & Johnson, from 1967 to 22 1989, owned a talc mine there called the -- it's 23 owned by a Johnson & Johnson subsidiary called 24 Windsor Minerals, but it's part of Johnson & 25 Johnson. 1989, they sold it to another company, Page 357 1 but they kept getting their talc from that mine 2 until the year 2003. 3 So from 1967ish to 2003, Johnson & Johnson got ( 4 its asbestos -- excuse me, got its talc from this 5 mine in Vermont. And the reason I misspoke and 6 said the word asbestos is because this graphic 7 actually comes from a geological summary that says 8 regions of the United States, shaded area, reported 9 by the Environmental Protection Agency to contain 10 asbestiform minerals in the bedrocks, which is the 11 entire state of Vermont. 12 And if you go on to the U.S. Geological ( 13 Survey, these little yellow dots are where there 14 were confirmed asbestos mines or asbestos deposits 15 in Vermont. They stopped mining asbestos in 16 Vermont, thank goodness, a long time ago back in 17 the 20th century, but these are what we know 18 about now. And Ludlow and Chester, Vermont, where 19 Johnson & Johnson's talc mines are, are right about 20 there. 21 So there's always been a potential for ( 22 asbestos to be in the talc that Johnson & Johnson 23 produced. Before 1967, they got their talc from a 24 mine in Italy. And you may hear some testimony 25 about Cashmere Bouquet, which is another talcum Page 358 1 powder company that got talc from the same Italian 2 mine for a while from Johnson & Johnson. And there 3 were reports to Johnson & Johnson about tremolite, 4 which is a type of asbestos, being in the Italian 5 rock, the Italian talc. But the vast majority of 6 the potential asbestos exposure that Melody 7 experienced from Johnson & Johnson came from 8 Vermont. 9 Remember I said earlier because mesothelioma ( 10 is a latency period of, like, 60 years sometimes, 11 and that the last 10 to 15 years, your tumors are 12 already in your body, even though you don't know 13 it. For the past 15 years, Johnson & Johnson has 14 gotten its talc from China. And usually when I 15 think of China, I think of things that tend to be 16 less safe than maybe perhaps things that come from 17 America. But actually, the percentage chance that 18 you have asbestos in talc from a Chinese mine is 19 much, much lower than the Vermont mine. 20 We're not saying that every bottle that Melody ( 21 used had asbestos in it or even that the majority 22 of it did. But some of it did. We even tested a 23 recent bottle we got from Chuck that was -- she had 24 used some the past couple of years, and it came 25 back negative. But that's from the China mines. Page 359 1 That's not what we're talking about. We're talking 2 about the bottles that she would have used in the 3 '60s and '70s and '80s and the '90s. And we didn't 4 have a time machine. You know, I showed you the 5 DeLorean. I couldn't get back in that time machine 6 and go back. I could go back and show you the 7 medical literature that was available. I couldn't 8 go back and get a bottle from the '50s or '60s or 9 '70s. So how are we going to prove to you that 10 there was asbestos in the baby powder and the 11 Vermont talc if we don't have a time machine? 12 So the man who trained me how to try cases ( 13 once said, documents, you go back and you look at 14 the documents that existed from long ago, documents 15 that people wrote to their bosses or people that 16 were working on a problem. There's an old saying, 17 documents don't lie, documents don't die, documents 18 don't forget things, and documents don't 19 misremember. Anybody can come in and put their own 20 spin on a document or what it means today. But the 21 people who were making decisions at Johnson & 22 Johnson in 1971 when they figured out for real that 23 they had an asbestos problem with their Vermont 24 talc, they're all dead, and we can't go and talk to 25 them. But we've got some of their documents. Page 360 1 We've also had some of the historical talcum 2 powder that was sold by Johnson & Johnson and came 3 from its repository tested by modern-day 4 techniques. I want to tell you a little bit of 5 what the documents show and show you a couple of 6 them, because this is a road map. You're going to 7 hear a lot of evidence over the next three weeks, 8 and I can't begin to tell you all of it now. So 9 this is just sort of a teaser, if you will. 10 So in 1971, this man, Dr. Selikoff, his lab 11 reported finding asbestos in Johnson's baby powder. 12 And the FDA reported finding asbestos in Johnson's 13 baby powder. And Johnson & Johnson is like, no 14 way, nohow, you're all wrong. And they went and 15 met with the FDA, they met with Mount Sinai, they 16 met with other scientists, and there was a big 17 scare around 1971, '72, and the world outside of 18 Johnson & Johnson became convinced that, yeah, 19 maybe Johnson & Johnson was right. 20 So in 1971, Johnson & Johnson had some 21 choices, and you're going to see documents where 22 they tried to remove the asbestos from the talc. 23 They talk about ways to remove asbestos from talc. 24 They talk about ways to destroy asbestos in talc. 25 They talk about ways to suppress asbestos in talc. Page 361 1 And none of those ways ever made the talc totally 2 asbestos free. 3 So again, as Kathy said, you don't check your ( 4 common sense at the door. If you don't have 5 asbestos in your talc, don't have a possibility of 6 asbestos in your talc, why are you testing for it, 7 why are you trying to suppress it or remove it. 8 McDonald's doesn't test hamburgers for asbestos. 9 There's no way there's going to be hamburgers with 10 asbestos in it. 11 The other choice that Johnson & Johnson had ( 12 is, like Kathy said, it's cornstarch. Instead of 13 taking asbestos out of the talc, take the talc out 14 of the baby powder and replace it with cornstarch. 15 Corn is grown out of the ground. It's not a rock. 16 It's impossible to have asbestos in cornstarch. 17 Johnson & Johnson had market surveys that showed a 18 majority of the consumers preferred cornstarch to 19 talc. Why not just make the easy switch. There 20 are reasons for that, which we will show you 21 documents and let you decide how that might happen. 22 But there is no asbestos in corn. Cornstarch is 23 not toxic. 24 Here is what I regard as one of the most ( 25 important documents in the case. It's going to Page 362 1 come into evidence as Plaintiffs' 122. And it's a 2 memorandum between and among various Johnson & 3 Johnson executives. 4 And can you all see that? I need these to see 5 up close. There are advantages to getting older, 6 but there are also disadvantages too. 7 What -- this is to D.D. Johnson from -- it's 8 copied by William Ashton and Roger Miller. Ashton 9 was Mr. Talc at Johnson & Johnson, and Roger Miller 10 was the president of the mine subsidiary. "It's 11 our joint conclusion that we should not rely on the 12 clean mine approach as a protective device for baby 13 powder in the current asbestos or asbestiform 14 controversy. We believe this mine to be very 15 clean; however, we're also confident that fiber 16 forming or fiber-type materials could be found. 17 The usefulness of the clean mine approach for 18 asbestos only is over." 19 Then they go on talking specifically about 20 baby powder. "As for baby powder, the entire 21 thrust of our communication with the FDA is 22 concentrated on asbestos as harmful fiber-like 23 materials. 24 "Our baby powder contains talc fragments 25 classified as fiber. Occasionally subtrace Page 363 1 quantities of tremolite or actinolite are 2 identifiable on optical microscope and these might 3 be classified as asbestos fibers. 4 "A program for investigating two different ( 5 ways of removing large portion of the very fine 6 particles presently found in talc. It should be 7 cautioned, however, that no final product will ever 8 be made which will be totally free from respirable 9 particles. We are talking about a significant 10 reduction in fine particles but not a hundred 11 percent cleanup. Cornstarch is obviously another 12 answer." 13 So they knew they had a potential asbestos ( 14 problem in this time frame back in '71, '72. This 15 memorandum is actually from 1973. They knew they 16 couldn't get the asbestos out of the talc. They 17 talked about the possibility of cornstarch. Why 18 didn't they just replace the baby powder talc with 19 baby powder cornstarch. I think you all will have 20 to figure out that for yourself. 21 The evidence that you will view, I think there ( 22 is an enormous problem sometimes -- corporations 23 are people under the eyes of the law, but they're a 24 collective group of people. Corporations can 25 sometimes do things that no human being would ever, Page 364 1 ever consider doing. They'll get invested in a 2 product or they'll get invested in a mine and they 3 just say, well, this is such a tiny, tiny, tiny, 4 tiny amount of potential asbestos here, it's not 5 going to be a problem. I can't get back into their 6 heads. You're going to have to figure out why they 7 did this by looking at the documents and hearing 8 the rest of the story. 9 They went out and they persuaded Mount ( 10 Sinai -- persuaded is sort of a loaded term. Let's 11 say five executives from Johnson & Johnson show up 12 at Mount Sinai and say, we would like you to 13 retract your statements that there's asbestos in 14 baby powder. You'll see a memorandum from 1976 15 where they did explicitly that, and people at Mount 16 Sinai told them, well, hey, we just found asbestos 17 in six more bottles, and yet a press release went 18 out the next day about Mount Sinai did not publish 19 that it found asbestos in six more bottles. 20 You might hear testimony from this gentleman. ( 21 His name is Barry Castleman. He is an expert 22 researcher on the hazards of asbestos, what was 23 known or knowable in the medical and scientific 24 literature. You may hear from him today or 25 tomorrow. Dr. Castleman, when he was a young Page 365 1 researcher at Johns Hopkins in the early '70s, 2 actually wrote to Johnson & Johnson and asked them, 3 is there -- you know, I've read this stuff that 4 there could be asbestos in talc. Is there a 5 problem with your talc? And they wrote him back 6 and explained, no, there isn't. And he believed 7 them. And he believed them for the next 40 years 8 until some of the other documents that I'm going to 9 show you, that we're going to show you, came out in 10 the public domain. 11 Multiple organizations at various points in ( 12 time tested Johnson's talc that went into baby 13 powder or tested Johnson's baby powder itself and 14 found that there was fibrous asbestos or fibrous 15 amphibole, which is a term -- amphibole is a type 16 of asbestos, in the talc. You'll see documents 17 from all of these groups where there was the issue 18 of asbestos raised at various points in time. Some 19 of these were in the '70s, some of these were in 20 the '80s. 21 The Rutgers is significant because this was an ( 22 article published in 1991 by Alice Blount. Alice 23 Blount was a scientist at Rutgers University, a 24 geologist, who figured out and thought she was the 25 first person to figure out a way to prepare talc to Page 366 1 look for asbestos in it. Unlike products where 2 asbestos is intentionally added to the product, 3 when you're talking about asbestos as a 4 contaminant, it's a low level. It doesn't mean 5 it's not dangerous, but it's at a trace level. 6 There's a way you have to prepare the talc in order 7 to essentially have enough time to look at enough 8 fields in a microscope to find fibers. 9 And Dr. Blount figured this out. She ( 10 published an article in 1991 that says, I've 11 developed this method where it's essentially 12 like -- it's called a heavy liquid density 13 separation method. That's a mouthful, and I'm 14 going to botch it when I talk to the expert who's 15 going to describe sort of what it is. But 16 basically, it's like oil and vinegar. One, because 17 some minerals are heavier than others, you put this 18 liquid density that's the same density as talc, 19 make a wet slurry, swirl it around in a centrifuge, 20 and the heavier metals, which would include 21 amphibole asbestos, and other heavy metals drop to 22 the bottom and you can analyze that and see if 23 there's asbestos fibers present. 24 Anyway, Dr. Blount published an article and ( 25 said, one of the things I tested had asbestos Page 367 1 needles and fibers in it. What the published 2 article, which was actually cited by the 3 International Agency for Research on Cancer, the 4 published article said one of these cosmetic talcs 5 had asbestos in it. They didn't tell you which 6 one. What we found out when we got Johnson's 7 documents in what's called discovery in a lawsuit 8 is that it was Johnson's baby powder. There's a 9 key on the back of the article in Johnson & 10 Johnson's file, but more importantly there's this 11 letter. In 1998 Johnson & Johnson hired Dr. Blount 12 as its expert. And she wrote, on behalf of whoever 13 was Johnson & Johnson's lawyers in a lawsuit, and 14 she wrote them a letter that says, "I have enclosed 15 copies of my 1990 and 1991 papers, one of which I'm 16 sure you already have. The 1991 paper was written 17 because I became aware it was a common opinion 18 among industrial hygienists that industrial talcs 19 are better than pharmaceutical and cosmetic talcs 20 because there was a regulation for the former and 21 not for the latter. I knew that this was not the 22 case and I wanted to set the record straight." 23 She then goes on to say, "Although my papers ( 24 report an improved method for analysis, the 25 determination for the sample labeled I, Johnson & Page 368 1 Johnson's Vermont talc, have been done by 2 traditional methods as well, in Table 2 of my 1990 3 paper. As I told you, I believe that Johnson & 4 Johnson's Vermont talc contains trace amounts of 5 asbestos which are well below those specified by 6 OSHA. It should be noted that the proposed FDA 7 regulation, which was never finalized, also 8 specified the same .1 percent for amphibole 9 asbestos as OSHA." 10 So this was a scientist -- Rutgers is in the ( 11 same city as the headquarters of Johnson & Johnson. 12 The scientist is right down the street telling 13 them, there is asbestos in your baby powder. 14 Like I said before, we hired an expert ( 15 material scientist named Mark Rigler. He's 16 worked -- he just retired actually, this summer. I 17 was a little bit worried that he was just going to 18 pack it in because he has a young granddaughter and 19 he wanted to stop spending as much time at the lab. 20 He and his senior partner at the lab, a lab called 21 Material Analysis Services, have tested hundreds of 22 materials for asbestos over 30 years. Dr. Rigler 23 is published in peer-reviewed journals about how to 24 identify asbestos in various types of things, 25 including, believe or not, there's a cigarette Page 369 1 company that put asbestos in a cigarette filter. 2 You talk about a time bomb waiting to go off. 3 He and his colleague Bill Longo published a ( 4 paper some 25 years ago that showed how you look 5 for asbestos in a cigarette filter. Using those 6 same techniques, except for they started using the 7 Blount preparation method on talc in the past few 8 years, they identified asbestos fibers. And they 9 identified asbestos fibers in some of the Johnson's 10 baby powder containers that they got from Johnson & 11 Johnson that came from places, you know, like 12 museums from long ago. Did they find asbestos in 13 every container, no. But a significant portion of 14 them, they did, and that when that is used as 15 intended, there is a real and sustainable asbestos 16 exposure from someone who used a Johnson's baby 17 powder contaminated with asbestos. You will see 18 documents from these companies that indicate that 19 they also found asbestos in Johnson's baby powder. 20 There are different ways to test for asbestos, ( 21 and this is probably the most complicated part of 22 the case, but I like to think of it as if you're 23 going to look for microbes on your hand, would you 24 use a magnifying glass to do it or would you use a 25 microscope? Those are three different ways to look Page 370 1 for asbestos in substances. 2 XRD is called x-ray diffraction, and that's a 3 way that they use x-rays to determine by weight if 4 there's the minerals that make up asbestos by a 5 certain percentage. That can only detect asbestos 6 if they're -- if by weight it's at least .2 to 7 .5 percent. The percentage of asbestos we're 8 talking about in talc is much, much lower than 9 that. It doesn't mean it's not dangerous, but it's 10 just not detectable. If you set the line at 11 .2 percent, you could test the talc for a hundred 12 years, a thousand times a day it, you'd never find 13 it. 14 A polarized light microscope can sometimes see 15 slightly higher -- lower concentrations than that. 16 The transmission electron microscope can get down 17 to parts per million, but only if you prepare the 18 talc in a way that allows you to have adequate time 19 to look for it. And that's the Blount heavy 20 liquid -- I knew I was going to mess this up -- the 21 heavy liquid density separation method. And that 22 method, although Dr. Blount published it in the 23 peer-reviewed literature so all the world could see 24 it, apparently we found that scientists and 25 companies that were working on behalf of Johnson & Page 371 1 Johnson told them about this method in the early 2 '70s. So the transmission electron microscope has 3 been around since the early '70s, as has this 4 preparation method. 5 So when Johnson & Johnson talks about all the 6 times that its talc was tested by all these 7 different agencies and companies, ask yourself, 8 what was the method they were using, and were they 9 using the Blount preparation method every time they 10 tested it. And the answer is, you'll find it's no. 11 The only time asbestos really shows up is when you 12 use the Blount preparation method. 13 This is a document from Johnson & Johnson's 14 files. Dartmouth College was writing about this 15 method in 1974, and there you see Dr. Blount using 16 the centrifuge in 1991. 17 The FDA. You're going to hear a lot of 18 discussion about, well, geez, you know, the FDA 19 never banned cosmetic talc. The FDA, there's even 20 a citizens petition in 1986, and citizens said, 21 hey, maybe there should be a warning on talc. The 22 FDA said, no, we don't think there's evidence - 23 they said there might have been asbestos in 24 cosmetic talc before, but we don't think the 25 evidence rises to the level that it requires a Page 372 1 warning. 2 So two responses to that. Number 1, Johnson & 3 Johnson never gave the FDA's internal testing from 4 1973 forward. The FDA has tested some cosmetic 5 talc more recently, the China talc, and they don't 6 use the Blount preparation method. They have 7 tested it using electron microscope with a limited 8 detection much higher than would be used for the 9 Blount method, and they have said, you know, 10 there's asbestos in some kinds of makeup, but not 11 in Johnson's baby powder. And that's not 12 surprising. I'm not surprised by that at all. 13 What I am surprised by is that Johnson & Johnson 14 didn't provide the FDA with all of the documents 15 that you're going to see in this trial. 16 So I'm running short on time. Johnson & 17 Johnson, they'll talk about epidemiology. They'll 18 say there's no mesotheliomas in the miners that 19 mine talc around the world. Well, the problem with 20 that argument is the Vermont mine, there was a 21 cohort of 392 people. There was either one or two 22 mesotheliomas out of the Vermont talc mines. 23 There's a paper published -- I don't know if their 24 expert will talk about it, but there was a paper 25 published in the past two months that talks about Page 373 1 those two miners. There's a paper published 2 40 years ago almost that talks about mesothelioma 3 in that cohort. 4 I'm sure that Johnson & Johnson will say, ( 5 look, there had to have been other asbestos 6 exposure in Melody Lewis' life. We don't dispute 7 that. But that doesn't let them off the hook any 8 more than if a bunch of kindergartners run across a 9 playground and all do something wrong just because 10 other people are doing something wrong doesn't let 11 your kid off the hook, does it? That's the basic 12 idea. 13 Their biggest defense is going to be what ( 14 Alice Blount, what Mark Rigler, what these other 15 people found is not asbestos. They'll say, oh, 16 it's not really asbestos. Even though it says 17 tremolite or even though the memo might be about 18 asbestos, what they're finding is cleavage 19 fragments. And the person that they will bring to 20 make this argument is a gentleman by the name of 21 Matt Sanchez, who works for something called the 22 RG Lee Group. Dr. Sanchez was hired out of 23 graduate school by the RG Lee Group. They paid for 24 him to go to school. 25 The RG Lee Group is kind of the go-to group Page 374 1 for companies that are defendants in asbestos 2 litigation when they want to try to say that 3 asbestos is something else. The Libby vermiculite 4 that went into the World Trade Center, that has 5 asbestos in it. RG Lee was an expert witness for 6 the company that made that insulation. They said 7 that is not really asbestos, not enough asbestos. 8 So take everything Dr. Sanchez says with a ( 9 grain of salt. And remember, he can't get in a 10 time machine any more than I can. He can't go back 11 and test whatever it was the people who were 12 writing this memo, 1973, some of the documents in 13 the '70s, he can't go back and test the positive 14 test results that they got from these outside labs 15 because Johnson & Johnson never saved all the 16 samples to back up the tests nor did they save all 17 the work product. 18 When there's a test done, there's pictures ( 19 sometimes of fibers and there's count sheets, and 20 for the vast majority of testing done by Johnson & 21 Johnson, that doesn't exist. The one example that 22 we do have, the test result, the memo says no 23 asbestos detected. If you turn to the worksheets, 24 it talks about anthophyllite asbestos. So keep 25 your eye on the ball when you're looking at the Page 375 1 evidence. 2 So our time is about up. I tried to, in as 3 succinct a way I could, give you a road map of what 4 the evidence will show at the end of this case, but 5 I never want you to lose sight of the fact that 6 there's a real human being here whose wife is 7 dying, and the damages here are enormous. She has 8 gone through multiple rounds of chemotherapy. She 9 is doing everything she can to stay alive for 10 another month or two. 11 I hate to say this in front of Chuck, but he 12 is going to lose the love of his life right at a 13 time when people -- you know, kids are grown up, 14 have their own lives, get a chance to travel. 15 Believe me, I'm looking forward to that kind of 16 future. Everyone should have that kind of future. 17 You can travel with your soulmate, do things with 18 your soulmate. They got to take a vacation to the 19 beach very recently. That's probably the last 20 vacation they'll ever get. How do you put a value 21 on that? We will come back at the end of this case 22 and ask for a verdict that weighs a value on that. 23 Kathy and I and Vin thank you for your time, 24 thank you for your attention, and I want you to 25 just pay as good attention to the lawyers for the Page 376 1 defendants. But look, we believe we will prove an 2 overwhelming case to you and we believe that the 3 law will justify an enormous verdict. 4 Thank you, Your Honor, may it please the 5 Court. 6 THE COURT: Thank you. That concludes the 7 plaintiffs' opening statements, so we're going to 09 :56 : C 09 :56 : C 8 take a break now, and the Court's going to 9 reconvene at 10:15. So let's get Bridget in here. 10 And she'll take you back to the jury room, and you 11 have till 10:15 to call your own. 12 Now, the admonishment that we talked about 13 before, let me go ahead and just review that (19:56:2 14 briefly. You're not to discuss the case until all 15 the evidence is in and neither are you to do any 16 research or to talk with any of the parties or 17 witnesses. 18 Thank you. We're ready for a break. They're (19:56:4 19 to be back at 10:15. 20 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 21 (Whereupon, the jury exited the courtroom.) 22 THE COURT: And then just a brief scheduling 23 matter with counsel, please. 24 (A brief recess was taken.) 25 THE BAILIFF: All rise. (19:56:4 (19:56:4 09 :57 : C (19:57:2 (.0 : 10:2 Page 377 1 THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated. 0 :10 :3 2 Before we bring the jury back in, I'd like an 3 indication of how late we think we'll go today, 4 because I'd like to tell the jury before I release 5 them for lunch. 6 MR. FINCH: If we could go till 5:30 today, 0 :10 :4 7 Your Honor? 8 MR. DRUMKE: Is that just with Brody or is 10 :10 :5 9 that -- 10 MR. FINCH: No, no, no, we'll be -- that's 10 :10 :5 11 both of them. 12 MR. BICKS: Well, we won't get the cross in. 10 :10 :5 13 MR. GREENE: Well, we'll get as far as we can 10 :11 :C 14 is the point. So we'd like to get Dr. Brody up and 15 down, Your Honor, and then start with Dr. Castleman 16 and get as far as we can is really the key. 17 THE COURT: So you want to complete direct and 10 :11:1 18 cross of Dr. Brody? 19 MR. FINCH: Yes, Your Honor. 10 :11:1 20 THE COURT: And then you want to do direct of 10 :11:1 21 Castleman? 22 MR. GREENE: Yes. 10: 11:1 23 THE COURT: And defendants. 10 :11:1 24 MR. BICKS: That's fine. I don't think we'll 10 :11:2 25 get to the cross, but whatever works. Page 378 1 THE COURT: With Castleman. 0 :11:2 2 MR. BICKS: Yeah. ?0: 11:2 3 THE COURT: All right. I'll ask them. ? 0 :11:2 4 MR. BICKS: I just don't want them to get too ?0: 11:3 5 tired. 6 THE COURT: Well, we started early. I'd like 0: 11:3 7 to give them an hour and 15 minutes for lunch 8 because security. 9 Oh, as to the attorney IDs, if you're still 0: 11:3 10 interested, there's a fee of $60 per pass, and I 11 did e-mail the list, and you need to go down and 12 pay them, send somebody down to court 13 administration, pay them. They'll prepare them. 14 They'll send you a link. You go -- or no, you just 15 go to the sheriff's office on 1 and then they make 16 the pass and give it to you. 17 THE BAILIFF: It's 101. CO :12 :C 18 MR. BICKS: Great. Thank you for doing that. CO :12 :C 19 THE COURT: So you need to talk to Paige Bova. :.0 : 12 : 1 20 MR. GREENE: Thank you, Your Honor. CO :12 :1 21 THE COURT: And if you let me know when you're CO :12 :1 22 going, I'll e-mail her to make sure she's going to 23 be there. 24 MR. BICKS: Got it. CO :12 :2 25 THE COURT: Or could you e-mail her? CO :12 :2 Page 379 1 THE BAILIFF: Sure. 2 THE COURT: Because I should listen. 3 THE BAILIFF: Are you ready for me to get the 4 jury? 5 THE COURT: Yeah. 6 (A discussion was held off the record.) 7 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 8 (Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.) 9 THE COURT: Welcome back, and please be 10 seated. 11 As I said earlier this morning, plaintiffs 12 have completed their opening, and now it's time for 13 defendants to begin. 14 So Mr. Bicks. 15 MR. BICKS: Thank you, Your Honor, yes. 16 So good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 17 JURORS: Good morning. 18 MR. BICKS: Peter Bicks for Johnson & Johnson 19 and Anne Malik. I told you in voir dire I was 20 going to be anxious to get up. I was anxious to 21 get up. And I'm excited to get up. I'm excited 22 because I have to defend Johnson & Johnson. What 23 you've heard over the last hour plus was an attack 24 on the men and women who work there. The evidence 25 will show in this case that the allegations are not Page 380 1 true. In fact, most of what was said is actually 2 false. 3 One thing we agree on here is sympathy. We 4 talked about it so much in voir dire. All of us 5 have had cancer touch our lives, every single one 6 of us. We have to set that aside. We are as 7 sympathetic as anyone can be for the Lewis family. 8 But Judge Hannah will tell you in this case that 9 you have to set that aside and make a decision 10 based on the evidence, based on the evidence. You, 11 ladies and gentlemen, are the jury we selected to 12 hear the evidence. 13 What will the evidence show? Johnson & 14 Johnson's talc products did not cause Mrs. Lewis' 15 mesothelioma. Full stop. And I'm going to talk 16 about how that's the case. You've heard the saying 17 and I mentioned it in voir dire that there are two 18 sides to every story. Now it's our turn to tell 19 our side. 20 And I have it divided up into a story with six 21 chapters. The first three are going to be about 22 Johnson & Johnson and how things developed, the 23 fourth about Mrs. Lewis and things she was exposed 24 to, the fifth about some of the things that will 25 actually happen in this case. I call them Page 381 1 misdirection. I'm going to ask you to keep your 2 eye on the ball. And chapter 6 is this courtroom 3 and where we go from here. 4 So let's start from the beginning. Chapter 1. ] 5 A company called Johnson & Johnson, founded in 6 Brunswick, New Jersey, been in business for over 7 120 years. The company's first products were 8 actually first aid products, sterilized bandages 9 and sutures used to stitch up people who were 10 wounded, including people who came back from war. 11 Johnson's baby powder was a product that came ] 12 into being initially at the end of the 1890s, and 13 it was used to put inside medicated casts to make 14 it less irritating. That was one of the things 15 Johnson & Johnson made. That's how baby powder was 16 born. 17 It grew to become a product that was used by ] 18 millions and millions of people. And to be clear, 19 let's say this right now, Johnson & Johnson is not 20 an asbestos company. Johnson & Johnson doesn't 21 make products with asbestos. Johnson & Johnson is 22 a healthcare company, a consumer products 23 company -- many of you know their products -- and a 24 medical device company. They are not an asbestos 25 company. Page 382 1 Judge Hannah told you, and I wrote this down, 2 that in deciding what or whom you believe, you 3 should use your own knowledge, experience, and 4 common sense gained from day-to-day living. And 5 you're going to hear me use common sense during my 6 opening statement because I think that's the most 7 valuable thing for folks like you, all different 8 backgrounds, all different knowledge, but we all 9 have common sense. 10 So there are 325 million people in the United 11 States, give or take. There are hundreds of 12 millions of people who have used Johnson & 13 Johnson's baby powder since 1894. There are just 14 over 700 cases of mesothelioma in women. It's 15 very, very rare. So on common sense, if what 16 plaintiffs told you was true, that there's been 17 harmful amounts of asbestos in Johnson & Johnson's 18 baby powder going back to 1894, it completely 19 defies common sense that there would be so few 20 women with mesothelioma. Hundreds of millions of 21 people have used this product for 120 years. 22 What is it made of? It's made of talc. And 23 you may be saying to yourself, what is talc? It's 24 a soft, platy mineral. It is not asbestos. 25 Johnson & Johnson had specifications that asbestos Page 383 1 should not be in its product. Johnson & Johnson 2 does not want asbestos in its product, and talc is 3 not asbestos. 4 There are two kinds of talc which will be : 5 important in this case, industrial grade talc and 6 cosmetic grade talc. Only 5 percent of talc 7 qualifies at cosmetic grade. And you can see some 8 of the products that cosmetic grade talc is used 9 in, everything from olive oil to pills to Tums. 10 It's used everywhere, thousands of products talc is 11 used in for cosmetic grade. Industrial grade talc, 12 things used in rubber, things used in plastics, is 13 not as pure as the cosmetic grade talc. That will 14 be important as you hear the evidence in the case. 15 There are three sources that Johnson & Johnson : 16 used, you'll learn about in the case: Italy, going 17 back to the late 1920s; Vermont, starting in the 18 mid '60s; and then China from 2003 forward. So 19 that's the last 15 to 16 years that Mrs. Lewis said 20 she used Johnson's baby powder, it came from China. 21 Johnson & Johnson tested its talc at five : 22 important steps. One, when it got high quality 23 mines. Before Johnson & Johnson went to any mine, 24 they made sure it was good talc. They also did 25 something called selective mining, and you'll learn Page 384 1 a little bit about mining. Talc comes out of the 2 earth in big mines, large mines. And people who 3 know this business, they go to different parts of 4 the mine to find the pure places to get the talc 5 from. That's called selective mining. That's 6 going to be important. 7 The talc is then taken to a mill where it's : 8 processed, and Johnson & Johnson processes talc 9 through a more than 30-step washing and floating 10 process to make sure it was pure as possible. And 11 then there was testing of the talc at the final 12 product stage. So there's multiple times where 13 Johnson & Johnson's talc was tested, and you'll 14 learn about that in the case. 15 This is very important, because I am going to : 16 talk to you in this case about real world evidence. 17 This is evidence outside of the courtroom with 18 people who don't have any skin in the game. 19 Harvard School of Public Health, NIOSH, N-I-O-S-H, 20 the National Institute for Occupational Safety and 21 Health, they wrote a paper in 1979. Geologic 22 studies dating from early 1900s have shown that 23 Vermont talc deposits contain no asbestos. These 24 were the deposits that Johnson & Johnson used. 25 You heard from plaintiffs' counsel about IARC, : Page 385 1 the International Agency for Research on Cancer, 2 part of the World Health Organization. They wrote 3 about Italy where Johnson & Johnson first got its 4 talc. These mines were described as pure. This is 5 the International Agency for the Research of 6 Cancer. This isn't Johnson & Johnson. 7 So let's talk about Chapter 2 of the story, : 8 because this is a very important chapter. And I 9 like the time capsule idea, and I put up here a car 10 that I'm embarrassed to say was a car I used to be 11 in as a kid with three of my siblings. And I know 12 that telephone also over there. Today is very, 13 very different. Many folks are glued to their cell 14 phones. Everyone's got seat belts and airbags in 15 cars. Things were different during this time 16 frame. So let's go back in time a little bit and 17 try to put ourselves in what was going on then. 18 Asbestos is everywhere, as plaintiff's counsel : 19 said. It's in floor tiles, ceilings, cement pipes. 20 It was everywhere. And to be clear, not Johnson & 21 Johnson. This is not their business. It's not 22 only just in products, in hundreds of products, if 23 not more, as plaintiff's counsel described, it's in 24 the atmosphere, it's in the soil, it's in water 25 that we drink. And why do I say that? Page 386 1 You will hear from plaintiffs' first witness, : 2 Dr. Arnold Brody, that all of us will have billions 3 of asbestos fibers in our lungs. And he will say, 4 that's just not a lot. And I guess he will answer 5 the question, when you see that amount of 6 background fiber, of whether or not there's any 7 really serious risk of injury. And I think he's 8 going to say that there isn't. This is background 9 asbestos that Johnson & Johnson has nothing to do 10 with, but it's just a fact of life. It's 11 everywhere. 12 The story starts in the early '70s, around : 13 June of 1971, with these two doctors at Mount 14 Sinai, Dr. Langer and Dr. Irving Selikoff. 15 Plaintiff's counsel spoke about them. One of these 16 scientists thought, had done some preliminary 17 research and thought that they had seen asbestos in 18 cosmetic talc. And it got on the front page of the 19 papers. 20 So when plaintiffs' counsel told you that it's : 21 only recent that this asbestos in talc question was 22 raised, ladies and gentlemen, that's not true. 23 This was raised almost 50 years ago on the front 24 page of the papers. And you see a statement over 25 there to the left which was Johnson & Johnson's Page 387 1 statement, in 1971, "Our 50 years of research 2 knowledge in this area indicates that there's no 3 asbestos in the powder made by Johnson & Johnson." 4 That's research that was done. I showed you 5 IARC. I showed you Harvard, NIOSH. There's a lot 6 of research that you're going to see. This is a 7 company that cared and was responsible in what it 8 did. It wouldn't be in business for 130 years if 9 it wasn't. 10 So here was the false alarm, the media, and we 11 all know the media today, somebody picked up a 12 story, and it ran like wildfire. It then turned 13 out that the scientists who thought that they found 14 asbestos realized that they were mistaken. Wall 15 Street Journal article, "I wish to make a 16 correction. There's no evidence of asbestos." New 17 York Times on Saturday, 1972, June 17th, "It's 18 absolutely untrue. No detectable contents of 19 asbestos." 20 And I don't fault these men. They were trying 21 to do the best they could. But science was 22 developing, and not everybody knew how to test talc 23 in the right way. They admitted they made a 24 mistake, which I give them credit for. But 25 Johnson & Johnson then took action. Somebody had Page 388 1 accused the company of having asbestos in its talc. 2 What would a responsible company do? They brought 3 in the best. 4 These are some of the people they brought in : 5 to test their talc. Cardiff University over in 6 Wales, famous for asbestos research. The McCrone 7 Group you'll hear about. Colorado School of Mines, 8 all they do is teach people how to mine and what's 9 in mines. University of Turin in Italy, where the 10 Italy deposit was. Dartmouth, MIT, Princeton, and 11 Mount Sinai. Researchers at all of those places 12 came together at Johnson & Johnson's request, 13 please look at our talc, confirm what we know based 14 on our 50 years of research. Ladies and gentlemen, 15 all of them confirmed that Johnson & Johnson talc 16 did not contain asbestos. No skin in the game, not 17 coming into a courtroom to help a party. Helping a 18 great company to make sure they were doing things 19 right. 20 Who tested it? I mentioned Walter McCrone. : 21 Walter McCrone was the leader in microscopy. When 22 there was a question about the shroud of Turin that 23 Jesus was supposedly buried in, they brought in 24 Walter McCrone to figure out if it was true. A 25 hair they thought was Beethoven's, the man they Page 389 1 brought in was Walter McCrone to decide whether or 2 not that was true. Everyone in the case will say 3 that Johnson & Johnson brought in the best 4 microscopist in the world to make sure that their 5 talc was safe. 6 You'll hear about somebody named Fred Pooley I : 7 mentioned prior. Johnson & Johnson turned to him. 8 He went to Italy and Vermont, to the mines himself, 9 and wrote detailed reports about what was there, 10 and he confirmed what everybody else was saying, 11 that those mines were safe and that those mines did 12 not contain asbestos. And you'll see the reports. 13 Very, very detailed reports. One of the best 14 geologists in the world was who Johnson & Johnson 15 turned to. And he confirmed there was no asbestos 16 in the talc. 17 The FDA got involved. They did a four-year : 18 intensive investigation testing talc, including 19 Johnson & Johnson. Four years, ladies and 20 gentlemen. This question that plaintiffs' counsel 21 told you was suddenly something new, that's not 22 what the evidence will show. The FDA was looking 23 at this with all of these other scientists for four 24 years. And what did they conclude? There was no 25 asbestos found in any of Johnson & Johnson's Page 390 1 samples. And you'll see that evidence. 2 Even Mount Sinai and Dr. Selikoff, who the 3 plaintiffs and their expert will tell you was a 4 luminary, one of the most important people in 5 protecting workers, they told the world that the 6 most commonly used baby talc has been consistently 7 free of asbestos -- that's Johnson & Johnson's baby 8 powder -- and that the opinion of the Mount Sinai 9 department of pediatrics is that that baby powder 10 is useful and safe. That's Johnson & Johnson's 11 product, and these were some of the top scientists 12 in the world. 13 How were they testing? They were using the 14 three microscopes that plaintiffs' counsel told you 15 about, and you'll learn in the case for those of 16 you who are interested in science, it can be 17 challenging, but it's kind of cool, because a lot 18 of knowledge went into this. And Johnson & Johnson 19 used all of these microscopes. You'll see each of 20 them do different things, but they worked together 21 as a team. 22 What was going on in the 1970s were that the 23 top scientists were trying to get together and 24 determine what was the best way to test for talc. 25 And that TEM microscope at the bottom was hugely Page 391 1 expensive. There were a few in the world, and they 2 were very, very hard to get good people to use it 3 right. They were kind of rare. So the method that 4 was adopted by the industry at this time was 5 something called J4-1. And J4-1 suggested that you 6 use XRD and PLM, two of the three microscopes. And 7 you'll learn about these microscopes. 8 The evidence will show that Johnson & Johnson ] 9 surpassed industry standards. They were using TEM 10 microscopes right from the beginning, going back to 11 1971. They went above and beyond the standard. So 12 you can imagine when I hear them attacked that I 13 don't feel that's right when a company goes beyond 14 what everybody else is doing, and that's what the 15 evidence will be. 16 You heard about the concentration method. ] 17 Mr. Finch had some trouble saying it, so I'm going 18 to call it concentration method. I'd have trouble 19 too. But what he didn't tell you is that the FDA 20 looked at the concentration method and said they 21 discontinued looking at it, because it doesn't work 22 on chrysotile asbestos, which was the one 23 plaintiffs' counsel said is used in 95 percent of 24 products because it was the same weight as talc, so 25 it couldn't be separated. So the FDA actually Page 392 1 looked at this concentration method and 2 discontinued research into it. Dr. Pooley himself, 3 the expert, said that this method was inaccurate 4 and an unsuitable technique to adopt. 5 So we're being criticized for not following a 6 method that the FDA said wasn't good and that an 7 expert said was inaccurate and unsuitable. That's 8 what was happening at the time. The method that 9 Johnson & Johnson did use was the one that was 10 described by McCrone and others as the best 11 analytical tools for determination of fine asbestos 12 minerals. Those were the three microscopes that I 13 showed you, including the transmission electron 14 microscope. This is what was in the science. And 15 Johnson & Johnson was using the best analytical 16 tools. 17 So this is where I am back to common sense. 18 The FDA performs an investigation. They conclude 19 that Johnson & Johnson's talc is safe. Johnson & 20 Johnson brings in the best microscopist in the 21 world, who published their test methods and used 22 the best analytical tools, but now the plaintiffs 23 are saying, everyone in the world didn't know what 24 they were doing and hid the presence of asbestos. 25 Ladies and gentlemen, that does not make common Page 393 1 sense. And Judge Hannah has said, let's keep our 2 common sense. The evidence will be, and common 3 sense will show, that the concern over asbestos in 4 Johnson & Johnson's talc in the '70s was a false 5 alarm. It is a claim that has been debunked many 6 times over, and we will ask you in this courtroom 7 to debunk that same claim. 8 Chapter 3. Science confirms J & J's talc is : 9 safe, 1971 up to today. So I'm going to review 10 with you 50 years of some of the science that 11 you're going to hear. Johnson & Johnson goes into 12 the mid '70s with every top institution saying that 13 that talc is safe and without asbestos, and they've 14 got test methods that exceed the industry standards 15 that they're going forward with. So let's see what 16 unfolds. 17 We're turning a little bit to Vermont. It's : 18 true, Johnson & Johnson owned through another 19 company several deposits in Vermont and then China. 20 NIOSH and Harvard came in in 1979 and did a joint 21 study. They wanted to see what was happening to 22 people in talc mines at the time and were they 23 getting disease from talc. So they chose the 24 Johnson & Johnson mine because it was pure, but 25 they wanted to test ahead of time to make sure that Page 394 1 it was pure. So they went ahead, they first got 2 the XRD, the PLM, and the TEM microscopes, and they 3 went and took samples from Johnson & Johnson's 4 mines. 5 And they published a report, again, no skin in : 6 the game, people not coming into a courtroom to 7 favor either side, real world evidence. This is a 8 picture of Maryann Boundy, famous geologist from 9 down south. You'll hear some of these names. John 10 Dement. These are all well-respected scientists. 11 They say that the Vermont talc deposits contain no 12 asbestos, and they do further analysis which 13 include all the microscopes, and they say there's 14 no asbestos in these samples. This is evidence 15 from 1979, ladies and gentlemen. 16 The FDA did get involved, starting in 1983. : 17 The way the FDA works, if any citizens, any of us, 18 feel that something should be added to a product, a 19 warning, we're concerned, we can petition the FDA. 20 That happened here. Two years an assessment was 21 done by the FDA where they looked at the evidence. 22 They responded after looking at all the evidence, 23 and they said three important things. One, there's 24 no basis that there is a health hazard attributable 25 to asbestos in cosmetic talc. This is from the Page 395 1 FDA, ladies and gentlemen. 2 Two, there's no need to require a warning 3 label on the cosmetic talc. The plaintiffs' 4 counsel said we should have put a warning label. 5 Ladies and gentlemen, you don't warn for a hazard 6 that doesn't exist. The FDA said that there was no 7 need for a warning label. 8 And then most significantly, the FDA looked 9 at, what would be a worst-case scenario. Let's say 10 there is a trace amount, and you'll learn about 11 trace. Trace is an infinitesimal amount of 12 something. What happens if there's a trace amount? 13 The FDA said that a risk from a worst-case estimate 14 of exposure to asbestos from cosmetic talc would be 15 less than the risk from environmental background 16 levels of exposure. Remember I showed you the 17 billions that all of us are exposed to it. The FDA 18 said the risk of anything in talc would be less 19 than that. Not Johnson & Johnson's words, the 20 FDA's words. 21 The FDA also tested Johnson & Johnson's talc 22 in China. This isn't Johnson & Johnson testing. 23 This is the FDA. From time to time, they've tested 24 Johnson & Johnson's talc. They went and hired an 25 independent laboratory to do it. These are the Page 396 1 test results. At the end of the day, there was no 2 asbestos detected in any of Johnson & Johnson's 3 products, and no asbestos detected in the mines 4 that Johnson & Johnson was using. They tested the 5 source mine, and they tested finished product. 6 This is what the FDA did. 7 And even today, the FDA will say that the : 8 techniques that were used to test that China mine 9 were the most sensitive techniques available. And 10 those were very similar to the techniques that 11 Johnson & Johnson had used when they exceeded the 12 industry standards going back to 1971. 13 What was Johnson & Johnson doing? Ladies and : 14 gentlemen, they were taking hourly samples from 15 their production area, every hour, every shift, 16 every day, and putting them together as composites 17 so that they could be then sent off and tested by 18 McCrone laboratory using TEM microscopes. 19 What did McCrone say? Very important report, : 20 ladies and gentlemen, you'll see in the case. 21 1987, a 15-year look back to 1971. And what do 22 they say? We've continuously monitored these 23 samples. Windsor's product is free of asbestos. 24 Windsor is Windsor, Vermont. That was the company. 25 A n d t h e y said, t h a t is o u r o p i n i o n b a s e d o n Page 397 1 15 years of closely examining the product. Best 2 microscopist in the world Johnson & Johnson looked 3 to. And you'll see that the Illinois EPA also 4 confirmed the same thing. Real world testing, not 5 for litigation. 6 Johnson & Johnson was receiving certifications : 7 when it sold Vermont, it did in about 1989. And it 8 received certifications from the supplier who was 9 also testing the talc, and those certifications 10 said, does not contain asbestos. Thousands of 11 certifications, and you'll see those 12 certifications. Testing was done and this is what 13 Johnson & Johnson received. 14 You'll hear from Dr. John Hopkins, most likely : 15 by video. He lives over in England, and he's had 16 his video testimony taken in this case. They're 17 going to go first, and remember I told you, listen 18 carefully when it's our turn. They're going to ask 19 him questions. Then it's our turn. He'll testify 20 about all the issues that I was talking about. And 21 I hope it will be helpful to you. 22 You'll see a couple things that actually I'll : 23 say right now, plaintiffs' counsel said you can 24 spin documents. What you heard was spinning 25 documents. When you see a document, please, read Page 398 1 the whole document. We've all had e-mails taken 2 out of context, snippets. Please look at the whole 3 document. Johnson & Johnson authorized McCrone to 4 give their testing to the FDA. It was said to you 5 that Johnson & Johnson didn't give testing over. 6 Johnson & Johnson said to McCrone, give to the FDA 7 all of our testing of the cosmetic talc, please. 8 You'll hear that from Dr. Hopkins. 9 Epidemiology, very important science. Study 10 of groups. Study of groups. The miners and 11 millers of these deposits have been studied, ladies 12 and gentlemen. These are the people who are there 13 every day, every working day. Use your common 14 sense. You put baby powder on ten seconds, 15 15 second, five seconds a day. These are people who 16 live and work in those mines eight hours, nine 17 hours a day. They were studied. Massive 18 exposures, four studies from 1976 to 2017, no 19 increased risk of mesothelioma, among men who lived 20 in that talc every day. Use your common sense, 21 please, and compare the talc exposure that somebody 22 would have in the mine when they're there all day 23 to using baby powder. 24 There's also studies of people who are 25 barbers, hair dressers, cosmetologists, people who Page 399 1 are putting talc all over the place. If you go to 2 a barber, at least if they cut your hair in the 3 back, they put talc on it. These people who are 4 working with those products have been studied, no 5 increased risk of mesothelioma among people, real 6 world testing of people who are around talc. 7 Wagner and Pooley animal study. They actually : 8 took Italian talc and injected it into rats to see 9 if it would cause mesothelioma. Group with 10 saltwater, group with asbestos, not talc, but 11 asbestos, and then Johnson & Johnson's Italian 12 talc. There was a study, Wagner and Pooley. I 13 mentioned Pooley, famous scientist. No 14 mesothelioma in the saltwater. It's kind of a 15 control group in an experiment. 18 when there was 16 asbestos. And when they injected them with 17 Johnson & Johnson's talc, no mesothelioma. Real 18 world science, ladies and gentlemen, and common 19 sense science. 20 So that's the common sense. People using the : 21 products all over the world, many different 22 environments, barbers, miners, millers. Johnson & 23 Johnson testing using the best methods. Nobody's 24 saying there's any concern. The science is showing 25 the exact opposite. Page 400 1 So that brings us to Chapter 4. As I said 2 before, a very kind woman from our perspective, I 3 don't know her personally, but I've seen her 4 deposition in Kokomo. By all measures, really a 5 lovely person. But I just want to focus on the 6 evidence here, because this is important. She 7 worked for 42 years at the Delco plant in Kokomo, 8 Indiana. 42 years. And the claim in the case from 9 the plaintiff, not us, but the plaintiff, is she 10 was exposed to asbestos at that plant. It's not 11 clear for how many years. Sometimes I hear them 12 say it was five years that there was pipe work 13 going on. Sometimes I see nine years. We'll have 14 to wait for the evidence on that. 15 But that's where she worked, 42 years at that 16 plant. And I want you to hear her testimony. This 17 is very important. It'll come up at the end of her 18 deposition. 19 (Video played at this time.) 20 MR. BICKS: Pipes being cut, plaster worked on 21 at where she worked. That's what the evidence is 22 going to show. And what the evidence is also going 23 to show is what some of these products were. Pipe 24 insulations, gaskets, spray insulations. You'll 25 hear the evidence on that. These are products that Page 401 1 intentionally had asbestos in them. And some of 2 them had lots of asbestos. And some of them had 3 commercial asbestos called amphibole asbestos, 4 which was crocidolite or amosite, which can be some 5 of the most dangerous. And you don't have to 6 accept my words. This is from the plaintiffs' own 7 expert in this case who they've hired, and he said, 8 "She was highly likely exposed to asbestos at Delco 9 when she worked there. She would have inhaled air, 10 exposed to airborne asbestos. Each time that 11 happened, it would have been well above background 12 levels." 13 Remember I said the background, background in ] 14 the air, well above. This is what the plaintiffs 15 are saying in the case, not Johnson & Johnson. 16 This is important evidence, ladies and ] 17 gentlemen. It's what I call the fingerprint. We 18 talked a little bit about CSI. There's something 19 called an asbestos body. A test was done on 20 Ms. Lewis and an asbestos body was found. It's 21 down there to the bottom. It's kind of got that 22 orangey feel on that. It's a consequence of iron 23 being found in certain staining. That will be 24 evidence, according to at least some of the 25 experts, that suggests that commercial asbestos got Page 402 1 to her lung. And that's commercial asbestos most 2 likely from the Delco facility, because her 3 expert -- the plaintiffs' expert, will say that she 4 was most likely exposed to amphibole commercial 5 asbestos at that facility, and here at least is a 6 fingerprint of that. You'll hear about that 7 evidence. 8 You will also hear that one of the really : 9 interesting things is that cancer can occur from 10 naturally occurring genetic errors. We all know 11 that we don't know all the things about cancer. We 12 wish we did, but we don't. And many occur 13 naturally because of genetic errors in our bodies. 14 The data will be and the science will say that more 15 than 50 percent of mesotheliomas in women are 16 naturally occurring. That means not related to 17 asbestos or any specific cause. So that's kind of 18 the two paths, I think, we're looking at, naturally 19 occurring or something at Delco where she was 20 working for 42 years, and some portion of that, 21 we'll have to see how long, five, six, seven, she 22 was around people who were working on commercial 23 pipe removal and things like that. 24 Common sense. That's what common sense. The : 25 evidence in this case will show that talc is not Page 403 1 the culprit here. Talc is the scapegoat. And 2 you'll listen to all the evidence on that. But 3 that's what common sense will be. 4 Chapter 5 is misdirection. What's going to : 5 happen in the courtroom based on the evidence. 6 You've heard all of these independent scientists 7 who have looked at Johnson & Johnson's talc and say 8 it's clean. And there are a lot over time. 9 Government entities, labs, scientists from major 10 universities, good scientists have looked at that. 11 In fact, in this case, two of the plaintiffs' 12 bottles, the only two that she had -- we don't 13 criticize her for that, people don't keep talc 14 bottles their whole life. 15 But she had two and they were tested. They : 16 were tested by an expert that the plaintiffs hired. 17 He used the three microscopes that Johnson & 18 Johnson used, XRD, PLM, TEM, and I believe he even 19 used the concentration method, that liquid density 20 separation method, no asbestos in those two 21 bottles. 22 All of these entities, including somebody : 23 hired by them to test her bottles, say that there's 24 no asbestos. So who do they turn to? Dr. Rigler. 25 He'll be here maybe this week. He only talks about Page 404 1 talc in the courtroom when he gets hired to come in 2 and tell you that he finds asbestos, when all these 3 entities who have no skin in the game say that 4 there is no asbestos. And I'm going to ask him 5 some questions: Have you ever personally tested a 6 talc sample, did you visit a mine, have you 7 published a paper or done a study, are you really a 8 geologist or a mineralogist, and did you actually 9 do the testing yourself in this case, did you get 10 under the microscope. And I think these will all 11 be the answers, but we'll have to see. I can tell 12 you I'm going to ask him those questions, and 13 you're going to compare him to all these other 14 folks. 15 And it's also important to remember what he : 16 says that he found. The FDA, when they did that 17 test of a worst-case assumption, they were assuming 18 .1 percent of something called amphibole asbestos. 19 .1 percent. That's not a hazard, so says the FDA. 20 What is Dr. Rigler looking at? .001 percent. : 21 Thousands of times less than what the FDA said 22 wasn't a problem is what he says he found. Hundred 23 times lower. Hundred times. And that includes 24 only things where he said he saw something. Many 25 of the bottles he says he didn't see any asbestos. Page 405 1 So we're talking about infinitesimal amounts. 2 To give you a sense of what .001 percent is, 3 it's like a dime on a football field. That's the 4 infinitesimal amount that we're talking about here. 5 It's really important to keep that in mind. A dime 6 on a football field. That's what .001 percent - 7 and we're going to disagree with them. We're going 8 to side with all those other institutions who have 9 looked at the talc and said there's no asbestos in 10 it. We're going to look at all the epidemiology 11 and say, if there was a problem, it would be in all 12 the science, not in a courtroom science, but real 13 science, where people had to get it right. 14 This is going to be interesting, I hope, if 15 you like science. I find it a little complicated, 16 but I've learned it. Asbestos is a generic term 17 for certain subgroups of minerals. And just 18 because you see the word fiber, it doesn't mean 19 it's asbestos. And when you say amphibole, that's 20 not always asbestos. Talc is not asbestos. So 21 important. Talc doesn't cause mesothelioma. The 22 experts will say that. And talc doesn't suddenly 23 magically change into asbestos. In fact, it 24 doesn't turn into asbestos. Asbestos never turns 25 into talc either. Page 406 1 So this is a lot, but it's kind of important. 2 You will see amphibole family, three different 3 types, actinolite, anthophyllite, and tremolite. 4 There's two forms of it, very important, an 5 asbestiform and a nonasbestiform. Very important 6 to keep that in mind. And you'll learn more about 7 it. So if you're looking at it now saying, whoa, 8 that's a lot, stay with us. We have really good 9 people who will walk you through it. 10 Just a picture, because it's a thousand words. 11 Tremolite to the right, actually jade jewelry comes 12 from tremolite. Tremolite asbestos is to the left. 13 One isn't asbestos, the one to the right. One is. 14 And you can see it right here. And when you take 15 that common tremolite, the green, and you hit it 16 with a hammer, it doesn't make it asbestos. You'll 17 see that in the United States, there is amphibole 18 in the soil everywhere, that tremolite, everywhere 19 in the United States. And you will hear it and see 20 from all the agencies that asbestiform variety is 21 very different from asbestos and nonasbestos. And 22 when they say asbestos, they're talking about the 23 asbestiform. OSHA amends the revised asbestos 24 standard to remove nonasbestiform tremolite. MSHA, 25 it's a mining body, does not include nonfibrous or Page 407 1 nonasbestiform minerals. Same thing with NIOSH. 2 You'll learn these definitions, but they're going 3 to be very, very important. 4 Kind of like this, I thought it would be : 5 helpful to understand it. Cranberries and holly. 6 Similar. One is harmless. One isn't. Mushrooms, 7 most mushrooms are fine. Occasionally, in some far 8 off places, I gather, there are poisonous ones. A 9 house plant can be fine, but it can also be poison 10 ivy. These names and distinctions matter, ladies 11 and gentlemen. In science, precision is important. 12 So please bear with us on that. 13 You'll hear from Dr. Sanchez. He's been to : 14 these mines and he's taken samples and he hasn't 15 found asbestos. And you'll hear from him. 16 This is before and after breaking up that : 17 rock. It doesn't take something that's not 18 asbestos and make it into asbestos. And you'll 19 hear Dr. Rigler call things asbestos that are not. 20 All of the agencies who have looked at the : 21 question of this nonasbestiform fragment, is it a 22 health issue, they say, no, it's not. Of course, 23 if it was a health issue, it would be reflected in 24 all the studies of all the talc miners and all the 25 folks who have been around this. Page 408 1 So here is what I say the five things to watch : 2 out for, what I call the misdirections. Is it the 3 right product? Is it the right mine? Is it the 4 right material? Is it spiked? Is it actually 5 asbestos? All of these differences, when you look 6 at documents from 50 years ago, you're going to 7 have to kind of keep your feelers up when you start 8 seeing things. 9 The reason is you heard about Dr. Blount. The : 10 interesting thing about her, and you'll hear her 11 testimony, is that the actual little handwritten 12 chart doesn't match up to the table in the art. 13 And she actually had her deposition taken, and she 14 said, I didn't make good enough record, and I think 15 some of these things got mixed up. So listen very 16 carefully to that evidence about Dr. Blount and her 17 samples and sample I. Very important evidence. 18 Different mines were used in Vermont. Some : 19 were industrial, and some were cosmetic. Johnson & 20 Johnson only used cosmetic mines for baby powder, 21 but there was also industrial mining going on for a 22 short period of time. So when you see a document 23 that somebody goes into an industrial mine and goes 24 300 feet into the ground to take out a core sample 25 in some far off area, and they said, oh, we think Page 409 1 we could have found some spec of asbestos, be 2 careful. The question is, did it come from the 3 right mine and was it actually used in a product. 4 You'll see this HC, Hammondsville cosmetic. : 5 Sometimes that was used to refer to industrial 6 talc. So be on the lookout when you see HC. 7 Sometimes it's industrial. And here are examples. 8 There's roofing material, it can be used there. So 9 you have to be very careful about what mines and 10 what talc. 11 Sometimes they spiked samples to see if their : 12 testing procedures were working well. So they put 13 asbestos in it to make sure that they were picking 14 it up, so you'll see something where they spiked. 15 Be careful about people who take documents out of 16 context. 17 You see the word tremolite. Tremolite doesn't : 18 mean asbestos, just like a mushroom doesn't mean 19 it's poisonous. It should say tremolite asbestos. 20 So if you see a document that says tremolite, watch 21 out. Does it say asbestos, or does it just say 22 tremolite? 23 I put this up because I kind of thought it was : 24 cool. Cherry-picking. It's very easy to take one 25 document out of context, but I want you to hear and Page 410 1 see the whole document and hear the whole story. 2 And that's what common sense is going to do. 3 Decades of testing, the world's best experts can't 4 be wrong. Everybody in the world can't be wrong. 5 Chapter 6, this courtroom. Where do we go : 6 from here? The Lewises bear the burden of proof. 7 We don't have to put on any evidence if we don't 8 want to. And you need to put sympathy aside. I 9 know it's tough, particularly when you start 10 with -- that's why we talked about it and Judge 11 Hannah will instruct on that. She will say what 12 the law is. 13 And so at the end of the day, the evidence : 14 will show three things: Johnson & Johnson's baby 15 powder was not contaminated with asbestos, 16 Johnson & Johnson's baby powder does not cause 17 mesothelioma, and Ms. Lewis' mesothelioma was not 18 caused by Johnson & Johnson's baby powder. 19 Thank you. On behalf of Ms. Malik and : 20 everybody at Johnson & Johnson, we really 21 appreciate it. Thank you very much. 22 THE COURT: Thank you. Now defendants need a : 23 minute to get set up for the next speaker, and so 24 you're welcome to stand up while they're doing 25 that, if you're tired of sitting down. And the Page 411 1 other thing is, I wanted to give you just a little 2 bit of information about the day. 3 You heard yesterday that -- you know, we went 4 long, we left early yesterday, and then I said we 5 might go a little bit late today to get caught up. 6 The Court would like to go until 5:30 today, and I 7 wondered if you all would like to make arrangements 8 so that you could stay late today. And that would 9 get us back on track. 10 Is that something that everybody -- I don't 11 see anybody shaking no. So okay. And I wanted to 12 tell you as early in the day as I could so that you 13 could make arrangements. 14 The other thing, is, Ms. Sundt, you had 15 mentioned an interview at 4:00 on Friday. 16 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, ma'am. 17 THE COURT: And I've also told counsel that 18 the Court will make arrangements for you to be able 19 to do that here. And we'll finish -- at least 20 we'll stop before 4:00 so you can do that. 21 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thank you. 22 THE COURT: We appreciate the sacrifice you're 23 making, but it doesn't have to be all of your 24 livelihood. 25 (A discussion was held off the record.) Page 412 1 THE COURT: Mr. Drumke, are you ready? 2 MR. DRUMKE: I think so, Your Honor. 3 THE COURT: Then you may begin. 4 MR. DRUMKE: May it please the Court. 5 THE COURT: You may begin. 6 MR. DRUMKE: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. 8 JURORS: Good morning. 9 MR. DRUMKE: We met before very briefly. I'm 10 Mike Drumke. I represent Kerr Corporation. Kerr 11 Corporation was founded in 1891 by two brothers in 12 Detroit. It is a company that supplies dental 13 materials to retailers who sell the stuff to 14 dentists. We did not make the product in question 15 in this case. We didn't manufacture it. We 16 packaged it and we sold it to somebody else. 17 I want to thank you for your time this morning 18 on behalf of Kerr Corporation. I know it's not 19 convenient to serve on a jury. I know people have 20 other obligations, professional and otherwise, to 21 attend to, and we appreciate your time. We will 22 try to be as respectful as we possibly can, 23 although you saw yesterday that sometimes the best 24 laid plans go awry and we can't always control the 25 schedule. But we'll do our very best. Page 413 1 Let me talk about the key points in the case : 2 from my client's perspective, and there are three 3 of them. I'll try not to walk in front of the 4 screen. 5 You heard Mr. Bicks talk about Ms. Lewis' : 6 employment at the Delphi/Delco plant in Kokomo. 7 She was there for decades, and you heard Mrs. Lewis 8 testify on video about her exposure to asbestos at 9 that facility. And you'll hear some more about 10 commercial amphiboles and types of asbestos and 11 things like that, and I'll talk a little bit more 12 about those, and Mr. Bicks alluded to them before. 13 But that's the type of thing that she would have 14 been exposed to at Delphi/Delco. 15 You'll also hear her talk about her work at a : 16 dentist's office for seven or eight months in 1966. 17 What that amounted to was cutting dental tape for a 18 few seconds, maybe as many as 25 seconds in a busy 19 week, once a week. Once a week, zero to 25 seconds 20 of just cutting a couple strips of dental tape. 21 That's it. She wasn't a lab technician. She 22 didn't manipulate the tape. She didn't build 23 crowns. She didn't break crowns apart. She cut 24 the tape. She put it in a tray for the dentist to 25 use. He came in, he did the work. There's some Page 414 1 testimony that she might have wiped something down 2 or picked something up off the floor. We really 3 don't know the extent of that. There's also 4 testimony that the dentist had a cleaning service 5 come in at night to clean things up. So really 6 what we're talking about is a few snips for a few 7 seconds of dental tape. 8 The other thing to keep in mind, the other key : 9 point is that Kerr acted safely and reasonably in 10 1966. You heard Mr. Finch say he's not going to 11 hold us responsible for what was known or knowable 12 today. That wouldn't be fair. What's known or 13 knowable about dental tape and the hazards of 14 asbestos used by dentists in 1966 is where we have 15 to focus and what was known and knowable back then. 16 I don't know much about what was known or knowable 17 in 1966 personally because I was born that year, 18 during the Johnson administration. It was a long 19 time ago. 20 Before I go any further, though, I said it in : 21 voir dire. I'll say it again. Mesothelioma is a 22 horrible, tragic disease. It is painful. It is a 23 terrible way for someone to die. 24 And we at Kerr extend our deepest sympathies : 25 to you, sir, to your family, to your beautiful Page 415 1 daughter, and to your lovely wife. We're very 2 sorry, and all of our sympathies to you, sir. 3 But we're here because we don't think we : 4 caused Mrs. Lewis' disease, and I want to explain 5 to you why that is. 6 Years of asbestos exposure at Delphi/Delco, I : 7 won't go over what Mr. Bicks said, I'll try and 8 shorten that up a little bit, but what does that 9 look like if we just sort of plot that out? 10 Ms. Kerr -- or Ms. Lewis is talking about seven to 11 eight months working for a dentist in 1966. She 12 was at Delphi/Delco for a much longer period of 13 time, decades working in that facility, doing 14 different jobs. May have been working directly 15 around people manipulating industrial asbestos, 16 maybe not. But she had, by her own testimony and 17 by her expert's own admission, substantial asbestos 18 exposure to asbestos at that facility. When she 19 was deposed 53 years after having left the 20 dentist's office, she was shown a wide array of 21 pictures of dental products and singled out Kerr as 22 the one. 23 Now, you'll have to use your common sense and : 24 think about what you can remember from 53 years ago 25 and whether her memory might, in fact, be accurate. Page 416 1 But we have no way of knowing anything about what 2 happened there other than Mrs. Lewis' testimony. 3 There's nobody else from the dental office that's 4 going to come in and tell you that Kerr was there. 5 There's no receipts from the practice. We wouldn't 6 expect that there might be. But there's no other 7 objective evidence about what Mrs. Kerr did other 8 than -- Mrs. Kerr, I'm sorry, what Mrs. Lewis did 9 other than what Mrs. Lewis says she did, all right. 10 So let's see what Mrs. Lewis said. 11 Mrs. Lewis started working for Dr. Maxwell the : 12 second semester of her senior year, all right. Not 13 her senior year, the second semester of her senior 14 year. For most of us, that means January, right. 15 Mrs. Lewis continued to work for him through the 16 summer of 1966 until she left to start the job at 17 Delphi/Delco. So by the fall of 1966, either in 18 August or September of 1966, she had left the 19 dentist's office and was working at Delphi/Delco. 20 What happened was, she was laid off after a : 21 couple of months at Delphi/Delco. So she went back 22 to Dr. Maxwell -- that was the name of the dentist 23 she worked for -- for a period of time, until the 24 middle of 1967. However, this is important for you 25 to remember. When she went back to Dr. Maxwell the Page 417 1 second time, he had moved his practice to a 2 different location, and he had outsourced the crown 3 work that he had been doing himself, all right. 4 Today, many dentists will send stuff offsite. It's 5 cheaper, it's more efficient, they don't mess with 6 it, okay. Back then, Dr. Maxwell had been doing 7 some lab work at his first office. When she came 8 back, and Mrs. Lewis told us this, she was no 9 longer helping cut the strips of asbestos to 10 prepare the trays to make the crowns in his lab. 11 So the only period of time -- there wasn't 12 even a lab in the second office. The only period 13 of time that Mrs. Lewis did anything with Kerr 14 dental tape was during this period of January to 15 August or September -- July or August of 1966. 16 Eight months. That's it. 17 And what did she do? She would make setups 18 for the dentist. I will explain to you in a 19 minute, as best I can, how crowns were made back in 20 the day. But what was necessary was there was a 21 tray, a red tray, she called it a lab tray. And 22 she would lay out all the materials in the tray for 23 him to put the crown together. So that included 24 strips of dental tape, would have been a casting 25 mold, a rubber base, wax, things like that. That Page 418 1 was all laid out for him to work with in the tray. 2 She would just set that up, and then that was it. 3 She had no further involvement. All the other work 4 with the material was by Dr. Maxwell. He made the 5 crowns. She just set it up. 6 And you heard Mr. Finch talk about this book : 7 here by Dr. Selikoff, and it talked about medical 8 technicians or lab technicians, okay. Mrs. Lewis 9 is not a lab technician, all right. She was a 10 dental assistant who laid some stuff out on trays 11 for a couple afternoons a month so the doctor could 12 make his crowns. To say that she was a lab 13 technician would be -- and I don't mean to 14 disparage Mrs. Lewis. That's not what she did at 15 all. 16 So this is from Mrs. Lewis' testimony. She : 17 talks about her responsibilities to set up the 18 products, that the tray was like a bread pan, and 19 that she would add whatever she was supposed to add 20 to the tray. And sometimes she would set up one 21 tray. Sometimes she would set up three or four. 22 Sometimes she would set up none. If he didn't have 23 lab work to do that week, there was no cutting of 24 asbestos dental tape. There was no anything. She 25 didn't mix anything or set anything up. There was Page 419 1 no powder or anything else. She just put the wax 2 and the dental tape on the trays and put it on his 3 workbench. 4 You'll hear that the dental tape came in a : 5 roll, and she would cut the strips from the roll 6 and place them in each container on the tray and 7 that when she -- after she cut those strips, she 8 didn't do anything else with them. And you will 9 hear that she was not tearing or manipulating the 10 strips, simply making cuts with a pair of scissors, 11 one, two, three. Three-inch lengths, just like 12 Ms. Farinas said. Some weeks Dr. Maxwell didn't do 13 any lab work. He never did more than four or five 14 crowns in a week. And it was always once a week. 15 He would set aside -- she didn't remember if it was 16 Tuesdays or Thursdays, but either Tuesday or 17 Thursday afternoons, he would do lab work, once a 18 week. We'll call it Thursdays for our purposes, as 19 it's only once a week. It took her a second to 20 make a cut for the dental tape. It would take her 21 five seconds to cut three pieces she said. 22 So working with Dr. Maxwell, Mrs. Lewis made : 23 one -- made zero and 15 cuts of tape a week. 24 That's it. So she didn't manipulate it in any 25 other way. Page 420 1 So what does that look like? This is her work 2 history in the lab for Dr. Maxwell. A maximum of 3 34 days. If she is doing what she said she's 4 doing, some of these days are blank. Some of these 5 Thursdays have no lab work at all. Some of these 6 Thursdays may have a crown to do, so five seconds 7 of cutting tape. Some of these days may have as 8 many as five crowns, so 25 seconds. So you're 9 looking at perhaps a hundred seconds a month, 10 maximum. Maximum. That's not a lot of time, 11 ladies and gentlemen. It's nothing. 12 This is what rolls of dental tape look like. 13 It's a material. She described it about one inch 14 wide. That's what she would cut. So zero to 15 15 pieces of this material is being cut once a week. 16 Zero to 15 seconds of cutting, maybe as many as 25, 17 but on average, zero to 15. 18 Asbestos was in our -- was in the product that 19 we distributed. We don't dispute that, okay. But 20 going back in time, and as Mr. Bicks said and as 21 Mr. Finch said, asbestos was used in a lot of 22 materials. It was considered a strategic mineral 23 during the second world war. It was used 24 extensively in ships to control fire in ships. 25 Part of the ship got hit or something caught fire, Page 421 1 the sailors were in danger, there was insulation up 2 and down Navy ships throughout the war and into the 3 '60s and even into the '70s. It was considered a 4 critical war material back in the time. 5 When the troops came home after the second ] 6 world war, it was in building materials. I think 7 one of the prospective jurors yesterday talked 8 about a house that she walked away from because she 9 didn't want to deal with it, but there's asbestos 10 siding, there's asbestos tiles. There may be 11 asbestos tiles in this courtroom for all we know. 12 It's a pretty common material. And it was durable, 13 and that's why it was used. And it was used in a 14 lot of consumer products. It was incorporated in 15 things from ironing board covers to paints to roof 16 coatings, you name it. 17 We have all been exposed to asbestos. There's ] 18 asbestos in car brakes, or at least there has been 19 for a long time. In the ambient air, in cities 20 like Indianapolis or Chicago, Cleveland, there's 21 asbestos in the ambient air that we all breathe. 22 This is a number that you're going to hear a lot or 23 a figure you're going to hear a lot about in the 24 trial. We'll be talking about fibers per cc. What 25 does that mean? It's a technical term that Page 422 1 industrial hygienists use to measure exposure, 2 okay. But for our purposes, what that means is 3 that each of us, at all times are being exposed to 4 asbestos at about this level. .0008 fibers per 5 cubic centimeter of air over an eight-hour average 6 period, okay. 7 And as Mr. Bicks said, there's 325 million : 8 people in the United States. There's about 3,000 9 cases of mesothelioma a year that are diagnosed. 10 So we're all being exposed, and while Mr. Finch 11 likes to repeat over and over again that there's no 12 safe level, all of the experts in this case will 13 tell you that this level does not cause disease. 14 Dr. Brody's going to tell that you this afternoon 15 when he comes. He's going to tell you, this is not 16 a problem, all right. And that equals billions of 17 asbestos fibers in an average life span. 18 How does that calculate over a 71-year period? : 19 Mrs. Lewis is 71 years old. If she's being exposed 20 or if a 71-year-old person is being exposed at .008 21 fibers, at that level, that equals what industrial 22 hygienists call a fiber year, .25, a quarter of a 23 fiber year, all right. How does that compare to 24 her exposure to dental tape? You will hear one of 25 our experts come in and talk about a study that was Page 423 1 done in terms of cutting. The number is .005. 2 That is her exposure from cutting dental tape on a 3 time-weighted average over an eight-hour period. 4 Remember she only did it for 25 seconds a week, if 5 at all. 6 Even assuming she was exposed at that level : 7 for her entire lifetime, that number comes out to 8 .0003. This is lifetime and walking around the 9 streets of Indianapolis. This is what she was 10 potentially exposed to working for the dentist for 11 eight months in 1966. And that's what that looks 12 like. That's the comparison. On the left is your 13 lifetime exposure to asbestos fibers. On the right 14 is her potential exposure from cutting her 15 asbestos-containing tape. 16 A few seconds of snips of dental tape. Kerr : 17 acted responsibly. How can I stand up and tell you 18 that? Let me explain a little bit about Kerr. As 19 I told you, it's a company that distributes dental 20 supplies, all kinds of things. These lovely vests 21 you all wear when you get x-rayed at the dental 22 office that weigh 40-pounds, right, really not very 23 comfortable, mixes, all kinds of things that are 24 used to help dentists do their work. 25 For those of you who have never had the : Page 424 1 enjoyment of having a crown or inlay, you flossed 2 every day, you brushed your teeth every day, that's 3 what a crown looks like. That is a gold crown. It 4 was actually a tremendous material, very well 5 suited to replace decaying teeth. This is an 6 inlay. I know what an inlay is because I have a 7 bunch of them because I was not a good boy when I 8 grew up. I did not brush my teeth like my mother 9 told me. I have a lot of inlays. They're not 10 gold. 11 How is a crown made? It's kind of an : 12 interesting process. I won't go into too much 13 detail, but there is something -- it is cast, and 14 it is cast using what is called a lost wax method, 15 all right. There is a pattern of a tooth made in 16 wax from a die. For anybody who's ever had braces 17 or has ever had a crown made, they take a tray that 18 looks like a mouth guard. They put it full of this 19 stuff, they stick it in your mouth, and they jam it 20 up top, right. It's a lot of fun. And you sit 21 there until it solidifies, and then they pry it out 22 and they pull out again. And that's how they make 23 an impression of your tooth. They pour what's 24 called dental stone into that to model the tooth. 25 And that's what the die is, okay. Page 425 1 So now they have a model of the tooth they're : 2 going to replace, and they put wax over the top of 3 that to make a mold. That mold is then attached to 4 what's called a sprue, just a stem, and it's put 5 inside a casting ring. The casting ring is about 6 yea big. Some are a little bit bigger, some are a 7 little bit smaller, but about yea. And that 8 casting ring is lined with dental tape. Why is it 9 lined with dental tape? Because the material that 10 goes -- that gets poured inside this mold is made 11 from silicone. It expands as it dries. It has a 12 thermal component. In order not to screw this part 13 up when the dentist is making his crown, you had to 14 allow for expansion on the outside, and the casting 15 ring is solid metal, so it doesn't give. Asbestos 16 was the perfect state of the art material at the 17 time to make gold crowns because it allowed for 18 that expansion inside the casting. That's why it 19 was used. 20 After the material, the investment or : 21 investing hardens, it's put into a furnace. The 22 wax is melted out, and you've got a perfect mold. 23 You then pour the gold inside, and that makes your 24 casting or your crown. You take it out, you break 25 off the stem, and you've got your crown. Page 426 1 So these are the materials that I was telling : 2 you about. That's the impression that originally 3 makes -- gets stuck in your mouth. These are 4 casting rings. This is a casting ring with the wax 5 mold with the sprue inside, and you can see here 6 that is the dental tape. That's what allows this 7 material to expand and contract properly for proper 8 fitting crowns. 9 Why is that important? Well, and then that's : 10 the heating process that melts the wax out, and 11 then you get your perfect cast that you can pour 12 your gold into. 13 Why was this important? Back in the 1920s and : 14 1930s, people had really lousy crowns. They were 15 having problems. They weren't fitting properly. 16 They would get infected. People would develop 17 serious medical problems because the crowns weren't 18 working and weren't being fitted right. So in the 19 1930s, the American Dental Association, working 20 with the Commerce Department and the Bureau of 21 Standards, developed a standardized method, this 22 one, for making crowns. 23 So working with the government, the ADA, the : 24 professional association for all dentists in 25 America, developed this method to make crowns. And Page 427 1 that's why there was asbestos in the product. It 2 worked better than anything. It was the perfect 3 material to control that heating and expansion. 4 As I mentioned to you, Kerr did not make this : 5 product. Dental tape that Kerr distributed to 6 dental supply companies was manufactured by one of 7 two companies, either a company called Nicolet or 8 Celotex. Kerr got the material, boxed it. It went 9 to the dental supply companies. It went to the 10 dentists. 11 What's known or knowable in 1966 is not much. : 12 It's all fine and well to talk about Dr. Selikoff 13 in 1965, which is the year Mrs. Lewis started her 14 senior year of high school. But he's talking about 15 insulators, and he's not telling anybody at that 16 time to ban asbestos. What he's telling people 17 actually, one of his recommendations was that 18 insulators should stop smoking, because there's a 19 synergistic effect of smoking and asbestos 20 diseases. That was one of his recommendations at 21 the time. There's nothing in anything that 22 Mr. Finch showed you that talked about dentists or 23 dental technicians or dental lab technicians in 24 1966 or before. 25 This process that I just showed you was being : Page 428 1 used in the 1930s, '40s, '50s, '60s. There isn't a 2 single case report of dentists developing 3 mesothelioma, dentists who worked full-time with 4 this material, or lab technicians or dental 5 technicians who did that job day in and day out. 6 Not for eight months, for 25 seconds a day, once a 7 week. Talking people, full-time professionals in 8 the industry, there isn't a single case report that 9 the plaintiffs are going to be able to show you 10 from 1966 or before that identifies asbestos as a 11 hazard in dentistry or that dentists were getting 12 sick or that dentists were developing mesothelioma. 13 Full-time people. Mrs. Lewis had seconds of 14 exposure. 15 Mr. Finch talked to you about one day of : 16 exposure is enough to cause mesothelioma. 17 Mrs. Lewis didn't have one day of exposure to Kerr 18 dental tape. Then he moved the goal post a little 19 bit and he said a few hours. Mrs. Lewis did not 20 have a few hours of exposure to Kerr dental tape. 21 Mrs. Kerr didn't have half an hour of exposure to 22 Kerr dental tape. She didn't have 15 minutes. 23 Seconds per week for seven or eight months at most. 24 That was her exposure to our product, and the graph 25 with the dots explains what that means in terms of Page 429 1 what you and I are exposed to every day. 2 That's why Kerr acted responsibly. There was 11:30:4 3 no reason to believe in 1966 that that product, 4 particularly in the way that Mrs. Lewis was using 5 it, would cause a problem for anybody. There was 6 no alerts, hey, dentists, you're getting sick, 7 nothing. And they won't be able to show you any. 8 So these are the key points I want you to 9 remember, please, as to Kerr. It was Mrs. Lewis' 11:31:1 10 years of exposure at the Delphi/Delco that caused 11 her mesothelioma, not a few seconds of snips of 12 dental tape over a few months in 1966 when she was 13 setting up trays for Dr. Maxwell. My client acted 14 safely and reasonably in providing dental tape to 15 dentists to make dental prosthetics because there 16 was no reason to believe at that time that that 17 product could potentially cause a hazard to 18 anybody. 19 Thank you very much for your time. 20 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Drumke. 21 Well, we have one more defendant to hear from. 22 So thanks for your continued attention. 23 MS. WEGLARZ: And Your Honor, we just need to 24 switch the PowerPoints really fast, so if you can 11:31:4 11:31:5 11:31:5 11:32 : C 25 give us a few minutes. Page 430 1 (A discussion was held off the record.) 2 MS. WEGLARZ: May I begin? 3 THE COURT: You may, thank you. 4 MS. WEGLARZ: Good almost afternoon, ladies 5 and gentlemen. My name is Claire Weglarz, and I 6 along with my colleague, who you had met yesterday, 7 Edd Harney, have the privilege of representing BMW 8 Constructors in this case. And as Edd told you 9 yesterday, BMW Constructors has no relationship to 10 BMW the car company. It's a totally different 11 company. 12 BMW Constructors is an Indiana company. It 13 was founded in 1955 by Mr. Baker, and its 14 headquarters are still housed in the same building 15 where it began in 1955, which is only about two and 16 a half miles down the street on West Michigan 17 Street. 18 And I want to make it clear at the outset that 19 BMW Constructors never designed, never 20 manufactured, and never sold any products, and that 21 includes asbestos-containing products. What BMW 22 Constructors is, it's a company that provides 23 services to -- services such as they're called 24 mechanical contractor services. So what they will 25 do is they will go into commercial and industrial Page 431 1 buildings and they'll do work on pipes. They'll 2 do -- working on valves and pipe fittings. They'll 3 do HVAC work. They'll do plumbing work on the pipe 4 side. 5 BMW is here -- and you haven't heard that much ] 6 about BMW. I'm sure you noticed that when 7 plaintiffs were asking you questions in voir dire, 8 they did not mention anything about BMW. Opening 9 statement, there might have been maybe two slides 10 of our logo. But BMW's here because it takes issue 11 with the very serious claim that's being made 12 against it by plaintiffs, and that claim is that 13 BMW somehow conducted itself in a way that caused 14 Ms. Lewis' cancer. Blaming someone or in the case 15 of BMW, a group of people, for giving someone 16 cancer is a very serious accusation. And if you're 17 going to accuse a company of causing someone's 18 cancer, even if you're not going to say that much 19 about the company, you better have some facts to 20 back that up. And those facts are not here. 21 You haven't heard that much about BMW, and the ] 22 reason why you haven't heard that much about BMW, 23 because in this case, there are not that many facts 24 about it. But all the same, they're blaming BMW, 25 so I'm going to take the next hopefully maybe ten Page 432 1 minutes to tell you about why BMW has nothing to do 2 with Ms. Lewis' mesothelioma. 3 You've heard about Ms. Lewis' work at Delco a : 4 little bit, and it's true, BMW did do some 5 occasional work at Delco. Delco in Kokomo is a 6 large facility. There's several plants. And 7 throughout the years, BMW was at the facility. And 8 at some of those plants, they did some construction 9 remodeling work. 10 Plaintiffs said in their opening statement : 11 that there's not going to be any dispute that BMW 12 Constructor employees worked around Ms. Lewis. 13 There is going to be a dispute about that, and 14 you'll hear her talk about that when you see her 15 testimony. 16 So what did Ms. Lewis tell us in her : 17 deposition about her work at Delco? Well, she told 18 us that she had several different jobs at Delco. 19 In August of 1967 through 1969, she worked in 20 plant 1, which they called the radio plant. This 21 is where they made radio parts. And she worked at 22 one of those long assembly lines. And she'd sit 23 there working on the same kind of component day in 24 and day out. She did that for about almost two 25 years. Page 433 1 In 1970, she moved to a different location. 2 She moved to plant 7, and that's a plastics 3 department. In plant 7, she was a clerk. She's no 4 longer working on the assembly lines. She's having 5 this clerk kind of job. 6 In 1979, she moved to plant 9, which is the 7 speakers department, and she moves into a different 8 job. Now she's an administrative assistant. It's 9 more of an office job. And she also then moves to 10 plant 10 and still continues to be this 11 administrative assistant office kind of job. What 12 she told us when we had the opportunity to depose 13 her is that when she worked in plant 7, 9, and 10, 14 she never saw any remodel or construction work 15 going on around her. None. 16 Now, you did hear when Johnson & Johnson was 17 giving their opening statement, you heard a clip of 18 her talking about BMW. And I think that was a 19 little out of context, so let me try to put that 20 into context, which is important in this case to 21 keep things in context. 22 So what Ms. Lewis talked about with regards to 23 her work at Delco, she said -- she had three days 24 of deposition. On the first day of her deposition, 25 she told us that she saw some kind of people Page 434 1 working on some pipes near her assembly line that 2 she was working on. And she saw them wrapping and 3 unwrapping something. And she was asked, "Do you 4 know who these contractors were that were doing 5 that work?" 6 And she said, "I don't know." : 7 On day two, the next day, she's asked again : 8 about outside contractors coming in to do the work 9 around her, and she said that it didn't matter what 10 company the contractors worked for. They all -- if 11 you were not a Delco employee and you were someone 12 who just came in as an outside contractor to do 13 work, you wore these navy blue kind of -- she 14 called them overvests. And they all had the same 15 kind of vests. This is how you could tell if 16 someone was a Delco employee or not a Delco 17 employee. So whether or not you were a BMW or 18 maybe you were an insulator contractor or maybe you 19 were some other kind of contractor, you all are 20 wearing the same navy blue vest. 21 Now, on day two, she was also asked a very : 22 important question about BMW. The question was, 23 "Do you know if you were exposed to any 24 asbestos-containing products or asbestos from 25 projects or work done by BMW Constructors?" Page 435 1 Her answer, "No." 2 Now, four days later, she has a third day of 3 her deposition. And on this third day, she is 4 being asked questions by her own attorneys. And on 5 day three, she's asked again about -- by her own 6 attorneys -- the kind of work she saw in plant 1 on 7 these -- they're air hoses that go underneath the 8 assembly line tables when she was in plant 1. And 9 she says, yeah, I did see BMW work with tape, 10 unwrapping some tape from the pipes on the air 11 hoses. This is tape. This is what she apparently 12 saw. BMW now -- BMW Constructors now wrapping and 13 unwrapping on the air pipes, this. 14 You heard plaintiff's counsel in opening 15 statement talk about her seeing some kind of white, 16 chalky, dust material. I've read all three 17 depositions. You're going to see Ms. -- I'm 18 pointing to the screen, but it might be here or 19 there. You're going to see the video of her 20 talking about what she actually saw at Delco. She 21 not once says anything about a white, dusty, chalky 22 material. 23 And the evidence that the lawyers -- or the 24 evidence that the lawyers talk about, that's not 25 evidence. That's just words we're saying. The Page 436 1 real evidence is what is going to come out of 2 Mrs. Lewis' mouth, and you're going to see that. 3 We're going to have an expert come in to talk : 4 a little bit about BMW, and we have Mr. Kyle Dotson 5 who's going to come and talk to you. He has a lot 6 of letters after his name. He'll explain to you 7 what all those letters mean. But in general, CIH 8 means he is a certified industrial hygienist. CSP 9 means he is a certified safety professional. BCEE 10 means he is a board certified environmental 11 engineer. 12 And out of an abundance of caution, BMW gave : 13 him all the materials that they had in this case to 14 figure out if there was any sort of responsibility 15 on the part of BMW. And when he looked at 16 everything, his opinions are that, based on what 17 Ms. Lewis said with regards to air hoses that she 18 saw work being done, if that was BMW doing that 19 work, there would have been no reason to have any 20 sort of asbestos-containing materials on those 21 hoses. 22 So with regards to, if she really did see BMW : 23 Constructors working with tape, there's not going 24 to be any evidence in this case that this tape even 25 contained asbestos. It might have been just this Page 437 1 tape, which is a Teflon tape. This might have been 2 all that she saw them doing. And he's going to 3 say, with regards to what he looked at, that the 4 exposure of Ms. Lewis associated with BMW 5 Constructors with regard to asbestos is zero. 6 There's nothing there. 7 I told you I'd be short. I probably said too : 8 much already, based on what has already been said 9 about BMW in this case. But regardless, I want to 10 thank you very much for taking the time out of your 11 lives to serve as jurors. This is our last time to 12 directly talk to you until closing arguments in a 13 few weeks. 14 So thank you again for your time. Again, : 15 evidence hasn't started yet. As soon as I sit 16 down, that's when the actual evidence in this case 17 will start. And with that, I am going to sit down. 18 Thank you, everyone. 19 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Weglarz. : 20 We're going to break for lunch now, and before : 21 we do that, the Court is going to read an 22 admonishment again. I've told you not to discuss 23 the case and to keep an open mind concerning it. 24 Now you're jurors. You're here. We've not heard 25 evidence yet. But you're not to discuss any Page 438 1 evidence or the case with anyone and not to permit 2 anyone to talk to you or in your presence on any 3 subject matter connected with the trial. 4 It's your duty to keep an open mind about the : 5 case until it is submitted to you for deliberation. 6 If anyone tries to discuss the case with you, get 7 their name and report it to the Court. 8 Furthermore, during a recess, you should not : 9 talk with any of the attorneys, any of the lawyers, 10 none of those people, not even to pass the time of 11 day, because you don't want to give anyone the 12 appearance of impropriety. You must be and appear 13 to be impartial at all times. 14 Now, in addition, and this would be for the : 15 jury as well -- or I'm sorry, for the gallery as 16 well, the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct 17 prohibits broadcasting, televising, recording, and 18 taking photographs in a courtroom and areas 19 immediately adjacent to sessions of court or during 20 any recesses of the trial. 21 No still or video photography or audio : 22 recordings shall be permitted in the courtroom or 23 adjacent areas. And the only thing you can do with 24 your phones while you're in a courtroom is take 25 notes. So there's not to be any recording or Page 439 1 anything else. 2 So thank you, and we'll recess until 1:00. 3 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 4 (Whereupon, the jury exited the courtroom.) 5 THE COURT: All right. We are still on the 11:46:4 11 :46:4 11 :46:5 11:47:1 6 record. Are there any matters that should come 7 before the Court before we resume at 1:00? 8 MR. DRUMKE: No, Your Honor. 9 MR. GREENE: No, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: All right, then. Have a good 11 lunch. 11 :47:2 11 :47:2 11 :47:2 12 COUNSEL: Thank you, Your Honor. 11 :47:2 13 (A lunch recess was taken.) 11 :47:2 14 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 11 :47:2 15 THE COURT: Good afternoon, please be seated. 13 :02 :4 16 Now, are there any matters that we'd like to 17 discuss before we bring the jury in? 1 3 :02:4 18 MS. FARINAS: Your Honor, we had an idea. I 19 believe that we are still trying to work out some 20 things with the Melody Lewis deposition and some 1 3 :02:5 21 other depositions to get those teed up, likely for 22 next week. We are still working through that 23 process, and I think there's a meet and confer 24 scheduled for tonight, or it's being scheduled for 25 tonight on that issue. Page 440 1 We were thinking any issues that we couldn't 2 come to an agreement on in our meet and confer, 3 because we are ending a little early tomorrow, 4 maybe we could have your ear for 30 minutes, 45 5 minutes, to do anything that we don't agree on. So 6 those videos could be made -- that video at least 7 of Melody Lewis could be made over the weekend. 8 THE COURT: Do you want those in the morning 9 or in the afternoon? 10 MS. FARINAS: I was thinking -- well, it 11 sounds like we would probably stop at 3:45ish to 12 let her get to her 4:00, so then that leaves us a 13 little bit of a window at the end of the day 14 tomorrow to take up any issues we can't resolve 15 tonight. If we can resolve them, we don't need the 16 time. If we can't, I think there are going to be 17 some issues we can't - 18 THE COURT: Certainly. 19 MS. FARINAS: -- we're going to need your help 20 to help resolve those. 21 THE COURT: I did bring the note from the 22 Lewis video. I said that the parties need to 23 delete from page 12, line 12, to page 13, line 12. 24 And they can begin again on page 13, line 13. 25 MS. FARINAS: Okay. I don't know what that Page 441 1 is, but we'll take a look at it. 2 THE COURT: Well, they had -- when I watched 3 it, they had the video here and they had the 4 transcript right next to it. 5 MS. FARINAS: Right. I just I don't have it 6 in front of me. But thank you, Your Honor. 7 THE COURT: It's deleting the part about the 8 letter from the little girls at church. 9 MS. FARINAS: The picture that she made her. 10 Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. 11 THE BAILIFF: Are you ready for the jury? 12 THE COURT: Are we ready for the jury? 13 MR. GREENE: Yes, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: The Court gave its copy of all of 15 the PowerPoints to Scott, and he'll keep them for 16 the record. But I only -- we only had one. We had 17 two of plaintiffs but one of all the other ones. 18 And I've given it to him. 19 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 20 (Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.) 21 THE COURT: Please be seated. 22 Welcome back. I hope everybody had a good 23 lunch and is ready for a busy afternoon. So that's 24 really all the instructions I have, and it's just 25 more a well wish. So why don't we begin. Page 442 1 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, the plaintiffs call 2 their first witness, Dr. Arnold Brody, to the 3 stand. 4 THE COURT: Dr. Brody, you can have a seat 5 right up here next to our court reporter. Sir, 6 could you please raise your right hand. 7 ARNOLD R. BRODY, PH.D., 8 a witness called on behalf of the Plaintiffs, having 9 been first duly sworn by the Court, took the stand and 10 testified as follows: 11 THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated. 12 THE WITNESS: Thanks. 13 DIRECT EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. GREENE: 15 Q Good morning. 16 A Good morning. 17 Q I'm sorry, good afternoon. 18 A Yes, I was going to correct you. 19 Q I'm sure that won't be the only thing you correct 20 me on today, Doctor. 21 Could you state your name for the record. 22 A Arnold R. Brody, B-R-O-D-Y. 23 Q And Dr. Brody, where are you from? 24 A Well, originally from Boston, but I now live in 25 Florida. Page 443 1 Q And what is your address? 2 A My address is 1 North Ocean Boulevard in 3 Boca Raton, Florida. 4 Q Doctor, are you married? 5 A 50 -- let me see, 52 years, six grandkids, yes, 6 absolutely. 7 Q Congratulations. 8 A Thanks. 9 Q It is appropriate to call you doctor; correct? 10 A I'm a Ph.D. I have a doctorate, yes, sure. You 11 can call me what you'd like, but that's what people 12 typically use professionally. 13 Q Doctor, I'd like to hand you a document, and I'm 14 going to ask you if you recognize it. 15 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, may I approach? 16 THE COURT: You may. 17 Q Doctor, can you tell me if you recognize that 18 document. 19 A Sure. 20 Q Can you tell me what it is. 21 A Yeah, this is my CV, curriculum vitae. It's a 22 resume. It has a list of all of my academic 23 positions and where -- papers I've written and 24 where I've been invited to speak at various places 25 around the world. Page 444 1 MR. GREENE: And Your Honor, if we could mark 2 that as the first exhibit, I'd like to move that 3 into evidence. 4 THE COURT: And any objection? 5 MR. BICKS: No, Your Honor. 6 MS. MALIK: No, none. 7 THE COURT: All right. The Court shows 8 Exhibit 1 admitted without objection. And it's 9 P-1, I guess. 10 BY MR. GREENE: 11 Q Doctor, could you give me a sense, first, of what 12 your life's work has been. 13 A Uh-huh. Well, professionally, I've been professor 14 in medical school for years, decades. I was the 15 vice chairman of the pathology department at the 16 Tulane Medical School for many years. Taught 17 medical students, graduate students, physicians, 18 and scientists, mainly about how asbestos causes 19 disease. That's been the focus of my career since 20 the early 1970s. And as I say, I've been a 21 scientist and carried out experiments, written 22 hundreds of scientific papers that are in the open 23 medical literature. 24 Q We're going to talk about some of those in a couple 25 of minutes. I want to go back a little bit. Could Page 445 1 you tell the jury a little bit about your 2 educational background. 3 A Uh-huh. So after high school in New Hampshire, I 4 went out to Colorado to do a Bachelor of Science 1.3 :09:5 5 degree in zoology. That's the study of animals. 6 Then I went to the University of Illinois, 7 downstate Illinois, where I received a Master of 8 Science degree in anatomy. That was human anatomy, 9 animal anatomy. That's where we learn how all of 10 our parts fit together and function, muscles, 11 bones, nerves, joints, that sort of thing. 12 Then I went back to Colorado to do a Ph.D., :.3 :10 :1 13 the doctorate that I explained, in what's called 14 cell biology. Every living thing is made of cells. 15 We need to understand how cells function. And 16 every disease has a target cell, the cell type from 17 which that disease develops. My focus has been on 18 lung cells over the decades. 19 After the doctorate, Ph.D., I did three years 33:10:4 20 of post-doctoral study at Ohio State University in 21 Columbus and then started my academic career. 22 Q From there, could you just walk us through your 1 3 : 10:5 23 academic career. Where did you go from there? 24 A So my first position was as an assistant professor, 1 3 : 11:0 25 that's a beginning professor, in the medical school Page 446 1 at the University of Vermont. Pathology is the 2 study of disease. I was in the pathology 3 department. I was teaching graduate students and 4 medical students about anatomy and cell biology. 5 And while I was there, I had the opportunity : 6 to meet Dr. Chris Wagner. It looks like Wagner, 7 but he was from South Africa. He pronounced his 8 name Wagner. Dr. Wagner was a visitor to the 9 department, and he invited me -- he saw the work I 10 was doing with human lungs, and he invited me to 11 come and work with him in Wales, in the United 12 Kingdom, which is where he was at the time. And he 13 showed me that all the asbestos varieties caused 14 all the asbestos diseases. He showed me that you 15 could use animals, like rats, to understand part of 16 the human disease process. He showed that if he 17 exposed rats to asbestos, they get all the diseases 18 that people do, asbestosis, lung cancer, 19 mesothelioma. 20 And so I took that model back from the United : 21 Kingdom where I was working with him and have used 22 that model, along with a number of other ways to 23 study asbestos, in my laboratory. So I was at 24 Vermont for six years. And then I went to the 25 National Institutes of Health, and I was the head Page 447 1 of the lung pathology laboratory. Pathology is the 2 study of disease. I was the head of the lung 3 pathology laboratory for 15 years. In 1993 -- and 4 while I was there, I published a series of papers 5 on how asbestos causes lung injury and affects lung 6 cells. 7 In 1993, I accepted a position as a full 8 professor in the medical school at Tulane 9 University in New Orleans, and I was there for, 10 again, almost 15 years. Retired in 2011. In 1999, 11 I was promoted to vice chairman of the pathology 12 department. I retired in 2011. I've been trying 13 to retire since then and continue my academic 14 association with Tulane because, in 2012, I was 15 honored with the position of emeritus professor. 16 So I'm professor emeritus in the pathology 17 department at Tulane University Medical School. I 18 just met last week with my colleagues there, 19 talking about some projects that we have ongoing. 20 And that brings us to today. 21 Q So you've more or less retired from Tulane; 22 correct? 23 A I have. 24 Q But as a result of your work with Dr. Wagner, you 25 started doing your own research in asbestos-related Page 448 1 diseases and how they're caused; is that correct? 2 A That's right. 3 Q And based on that, did you publish any papers? 4 A Oh, sure. I mean, you can't be successful as a 5 professor in medical school unless you publish your 6 work in the open medical literature so anyone who's 7 interested can see that work and critique it and 8 add to that field of science. 9 So the issue, of course, is how do you pay for 10 that work, because the universities provide a place 11 for you to do your work, but they don't pay for the 12 very expensive equipment, materials, supplies, the 13 students who do a lot of the work. So it's 14 incumbent upon the professor to find that support. 15 And so I've been competing with professors in these 16 great schools across the country, whether Indiana 17 or California or Boston or Florida, for the limited 18 resources available to fund this research. 19 So we do this by sending applications to the 20 National Institutes of Health. And out of the tens 21 of thousands of applications they receive, only 10 22 to 15 percent of those get funded. So it's a very 23 competitive environment. The work that you just 24 asked me about has been funded without interruption 25 in my laboratory throughout my career. Page 449 1 Q Doctor, is there such a thing as peer review in the 2 medical literature? 3 A Sure. 4 Q What does that mean? 5 A So this is an essential component of science where 6 your peers, scientists like yourself, anonymously 7 review your work. So all of the peer-reviewed 8 papers, I listed 154 of them in my CV here, have 9 been reviewed anonymously by other scientists like 10 myself. And that's part of what's necessary to get 11 this work done. 12 Q And have you also yourself been what's called a 13 peer reviewer? 14 A I do that regularly. I have several papers sitting 15 on my desk right now waiting for me to review. 16 Q Doctor, I've had a chance obviously to look at your 17 CV. Have you received any awards during your 18 career? 19 A Well, you know, I would say the most -- I have 20 received some awards, but the most prominent awards 21 that I received are the grants, the grant awards 22 from the National Institutes of Health, because 23 they're so hard to get and because they provide 24 such an important structural component for the 25 research that's done in this country across from Page 450 1 coast to coast. If you have the opportunity to be 2 supported by the National Institutes of Health, 3 that's a great reward. That's the most significant 4 award that I've received. I've received others, 5 but that's the most important one. 6 Q Doctor, have you also testified in courts as a 7 witness giving your medical opinions? 8 A Many times, sure. 9 Q And how long have you been doing that for? 10 A Well, let's see. So I started my interest in 11 asbestos disease in 1974. Fifteen years after 12 that, in 1989, I had one case. An attorney from 13 your firm, actually, asked me to provide testimony 14 in a case like this. And so I had a few cases in 15 the early '90s, a few more in the late '90s. And 16 in the 2000s and particularly since I retired, I've 17 had many more of these cases. 18 Q Doctor, that was -- I was going to ask you, have 19 you testified before at the request of my firm? 20 A Yes, I have. 21 Q And have you testified in courts all around the 22 country before? 23 A Many times, yes. 24 Q And have you actually testified -- you and I have 25 had this conversation before, haven't we? Page 451 1 A Oh, sure. 2 Q And you've testified in Indiana before? 3 A I have, yeah. 4 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, at this time I know 5 it's not required, but we would offer Dr. Brody as 6 an expert in cell biology, anatomical pathology, 7 and the physiology of asbestos-related diseases. 8 MS. MALIK: No objection, Your Honor. 9 MS. WEGLARZ: No objection. 10 THE COURT: All right. You may proceed. 11 MR. GREENE: Thank you, Your Honor. 12 BY MR. GREENE: 13 Q Dr. Brody, did I ask you to come here today to 14 explain how asbestos causes diseases? 15 A Yes, you did. 16 Q And did you bring a slide presentation with you for 17 that purpose? 18 A Yes. I have a series of slides that I -- most of 19 them are pictures that I've taken with different 20 kinds of microscopes. They -- I set this up 21 particularly to show the medical students how 22 asbestos causes disease. I gave a talk a couple 23 weeks ago in San Francisco and used some of these 24 slides. So that's what this slide presentation is. 25 It's to explain how asbestos causes disease. Page 452 1 Q And Doctor, will it be helpful for the jury to walk .3:18 2 through that slide presentation to explain how 3 asbestos causes disease? 4 A I hope so. .3:18 5 Q Doctor, would it be helpful if you got up and kind .3:18 6 of walked through this with us? 7 A If I could, yeah. .3:18 8 MR. GREENE: May we do that, Your Honor? .3:18 9 THE COURT: You may. .3:18 10 MR. GREENE: Doctor, what might be helpful is .3:18 11 if I go over here. 12 Your Honor, may I do that? .3:18 13 BY MR. GREENE: .3:18 14 Q Doctor, as you're walking through -- .3:18 15 A I haven't seen one of these for a while. .3:19 16 Q Are you going to hit me with that if I ask a wrong .3:19 17 question? 18 A Yes, go ahead, please. .3:19 19 Q Doctor, as you're walking through this, can you, as .3:19 20 you're giving your opinions, can we agree that 21 you're giving them to a reasonable degree of 22 medical certainty? 23 A Yes, or scientific certainty. .3:19 24 Q Scientific certainty. .3:19 25 A And medical certainty, yes. .3:19 Page 453 1 Q Can you tell us first, what is this first slide 2 that we're looking at? 3 A Well, this is obviously a diagram from a textbook. 4 I know you know where your lungs are, but I just 5 want to remind you that when you take a breath, the 6 air comes down this tube right here that we call 7 the trachea or windpipe. You can feel the top of 8 that in your Adam's apple right here. And you take 9 a breath, and the air goes down into this series of 10 tubes called conducting airways because they 11 conduct air down into the lungs. 12 This also acts as a map that shows you where 13 the different asbestos diseases develop. So, for 14 example, the disease asbestosis develops in among 15 the tubes. The disease lung cancer develops in the 16 walls of the tubes. And then you see this black 17 line that runs around the outside the lung. That 18 black line represents the pleura, P-L-E-U-R-A. The 19 pleura is a very thin, Saran Wrap thin, membrane 20 that wraps around the outside of the lungs, makes 21 the lungs airtight like balloons. 22 There's a single layer of cells that runs 23 around the outside of the pleura. Those cells are 24 called mesothelial cells. Somebody has a cancer of 25 the mesothelial cells, it's called mesothelioma. Page 454 1 There's also a thin layer of mesothelial cells on 2 the inside lining of the chest wall. And as you're 3 sitting here and you're breathing, your lungs are 4 rubbing up and down against the inside of your 5 chest, but you don't feel that because the 6 mesothelial cells secrete a slippery substance that 7 allows the lungs to move against the inside of the 8 chest wall. And that's one of the functions of the 9 mesothelia cells. 10 So I want to explain how asbestos gets from 11 the environment, doesn't matter the source. The 12 lung doesn't discriminate among the various sources 13 of asbestos. I'm going to show you how the fibers 14 get into the lung, where they go, how they then are 15 transported to the pleura, to the mesothelial 16 cells, and then once they get there, I'll explain 17 how asbestos causes this disease, mesothelioma. 18 Q So Doctor, you're going to take us on a journey 19 essentially from the breathing zone through the 20 lungs and how to the pleura? 21 A That's it. 22 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, if I can pause just a 23 second. Is it possible to shut off half the lights 24 so we can see? 25 THE COURT: Yes, we can turn off a couple of Page 455 1 them here. 2 MR. GREENE: Thank you. 3 A So while we're doing that, I can tell you that in 4 order to see these things, like -- that's great. A :.3 :21:4 :.3 :21:5 5 lot better. Thank you. 6 THE COURT: Thank you. 7 A So in order -- these things that we're talking 8 about, cells and asbestos fibers, they're much :.3 :21:5 :.3 :21:5 9 smaller than can be seen with the naked eye. So we 10 need different kinds of microscopes. I have a 11 picture of a microscope that I used for many years. 12 This microscope actually was a victim of Hurricane 13 Katrina when I was at Tulane in New Orleans. 14 But I can take a piece of tissue as small as a :.3 :22 :2 15 period at the end of a sentence or as big as this 16 device I have in my hand and put that tissue into 17 this door right here in front of me and enter it 18 into the column. And the column is evacuated. It 19 has a vacuum in the column. And at the top of the 20 column, there is an electron gun that generates 21 trillions of electrons that come down through that 22 vacuum and strike whatever sample I put in there. 23 The electrons then run over the surface of the :.3 : 2 2 :5 24 sample very rapidly and recreate at the highest 25 ultrastructural level the details of whatever I put Page 456 1 into the microscope. And then we collect those 2 electrons and then there's an electron image in 3 front of me, and then just off of the screen 4 there's a camera so I can take a permanent image of 5 whatever it is we're looking at. 6 So, for example, if I cut a piece of tissue : 7 out of the lung, and you can see the pleura running 8 here and you can see the conducting airways going 9 up, and I cut this out and I put it in the 10 microscope and I take a picture of it, you can see 11 that your lung looks like a sponge. It's a sponge 12 for air, obviously, rather than water. You can see 13 how thin the pleura is. When I cut across the 14 pleura, you can see how thin that is. 15 And then on the outside lining of the pleura : 16 are the mesothelial cells. Here are a couple of 17 those conducting airways I was telling you about. 18 And you can also see the gas exchange area, where 19 we exchange oxygen and carbon dioxide. 20 So when you take a breath, the air comes into : 21 our nose and our mouth and we have these nose hairs 22 and moisture in our throats and our nose that 23 capture a lot of particles. We're always faced 24 with particles in the air, bacteria, viruses, a few 25 asbestos fibers, and those things typically get Page 457 1 trapped. Most of them get trapped. But a lot of 2 them go right past those early -- those initial 3 defenses and get down into the lung. 4 So I want to show you then on the surface of : 5 our airways, we have a very effective defense 6 mechanism. So I'm going to focus the microscope 7 right down here on the airway. It could be 8 anywhere along the airway. It could be in you, me, 9 a rat, cat, dog, giraffe, elephant, we all have 10 these same defenses. So I'm going to focus the 11 microscope right here and fill the screen with 12 what's at the tip of the pointer. So I'm going to 13 focus the microscope, take a picture, and now you 14 can see what the surface of our airways looks like. 15 And it says human bronchiole. A bronchiole is : 16 a small airway, and our airways are lined by 17 millions of these little hair-like structures. 18 They're not hairs at all. They're extensions of 19 the cell surface called cilia, C-I-L-I-A. And 20 these cilia are constantly beating in a synchronous 21 wave-like fashion, so if you inhale any of these 22 particles I'm telling you about, they get swept up 23 to your mouth and you swallow them or spit them 24 out. That's, again, going on all the time. 25 Now, you can also see that there are some : Page 458 1 cells that don't have cilia, and those cilia make 2 mucous. And you don't think much about mucous 3 unless you're a smoker or you have a cold, then you 4 can feel that mucous getting swept up to your mouth 5 and you might cough. But then typically you 6 swallow it or spit it out. And this very important 7 defense mechanism is called a muco, for mucous, 8 mucociliary, the cilia, mucociliary escalator, 9 because it escalates things up to our mouth. So 10 the mucociliary escalator is working all the time. 11 Now, that escalator lines all of our airways, : 12 but a lot of things that we inhale go zipping right 13 past that defense mechanism and get out into the 14 air spaces. And that's a requirement for asbestos 15 to get to the target cell for mesothelioma, those 16 mesothelial cells on the outside lining of the 17 pleura. 18 So I'm going to show you what happens when the : 19 fibers get out into the air spaces and then how 20 they get to the pleura. We actually discovered in 21 my laboratory the pathway that asbestos fibers take 22 when they get into the air spaces of the lung. 23 So I'm going to take us out to the end of the : 24 airway, where it opens out into the gas exchange of 25 the lung. Page 459 1 Q Doctor, can we pause for one moment just on that 1.3:26:5 2 picture. 3 A Of course we can. 4 Q Just one quick question, because the jury has heard 1.3:26:5 1.3:26:5 5 the term a couple times. That previous slide, that 6 material where the gas exchanges, is that what's 7 called the parenchyma? 8 A Yes. So this whole area, this gas exchange area of 1.3 :2 7 :C 9 the lung, is the parenchyma of the lung, that's 10 correct. Okay. And also, while we're paused, let 11 me point out this marker down here, because I'm 12 talking about things that are too small to be seen 13 with the naked eye, which is why we take pictures 14 of them magnified many tens of thousands of times 15 with the microscope. And this is a bar that 16 represents ten what are called microns. So that's 17 the marker for microns. The measurement we use is 18 microns. 19 So it's easy for you here to see 10 microns. 1.3:27:3 20 The question, of course, is how big is a micron, 21 right. So if you take your thumb and your 22 forefinger and you make a little space, you can 23 just barely see it with your naked eye, you've made 24 about a millimeter. And now take that millimeter 25 and divide it a thousand times. What you've done Page 460 1 then is you've made a thousand microns. So the 2 human eye, the naked eye, no magnifying glass or 3 microscope, the human eye can see about a 4 millimeter, a thousand microns. 5 Now, obviously you can't see one micron. You : 6 can't see a hundred microns. You can barely see a 7 thousand. But with the electron microscope, it's 8 easy to see 10 microns. And if you took this bar 9 in your mind's eye and stood it up next to these 10 cilia, you'd see they're about 8 to 10 microns 11 long. And so this marker will be on most of the 12 pictures that we see throughout. 13 Q Now, are we going deeper intothe lung? : 14 A We are. We're going to go --so I'm going to cut a : 15 piece of the lung out here at the end of the airway 16 where it opens out into some of these air spaces, 17 because I want you to think about sitting in an air 18 space if you will. Take off the ceiling and look 19 down at the carpet. I think there are some carpet 20 squares there. So let's look at the air space 21 surface. 22 So here we are now at the end of the airway : 23 where it opens out into the gas exchange, and here 24 are a few of the hundreds of millions of air spaces 25 that we have in our lungs. And you take a breath, Page 461 1 and the room air comes rushing into the air space, 2 like we're sitting in right now. And we're sitting 3 on a carpet, and this carpet represents the kind of 4 cells that we have that allow the oxygen in the 5 room air to move -- to diffuse through it into the 6 blood that's running underneath it. I don't know 7 if you can see when I cut this lung open, I cut 8 open some holes in the walls. You might be able to 9 see some holes in the walls that I left here. And 10 those holes in the walls are where the blood is 11 running. 12 So we have to get the oxygen and the room air ] 13 to our brain and our muscles, and we do that in the 14 air spaces. So you take a breath, it's 20 percent 15 oxygen in the room air, diffuses through the 16 carpet. The blood picks it up, carries it to the 17 brain. You use up that oxygen. Those red blood 18 cells pick up the carbon dioxide that you make, 19 come back to the lung, and you go whew, like that. 20 Because the carbon dioxide is being released into 21 the air spaces, so now you have the exit. And 22 that's what's just going on in our lungs all the 23 time. That's how we get the oxygen that we use. 24 Now, it turns out that this carpet that allows ] 25 the movement of the fibers, asbestos fibers, is the Page 462 1 pathway to get the fibers through to the pleura, so 2 we're going to -- that's where we're going to go. 3 Q So we're going to go deeper and you're going to 4 tell us where we go from here. 5 A Right. I'm going to take us into a single human 6 air space. So let's go there. And this is a 7 single human air space. So I took the ceiling off, 8 remember. I perched the microscope right over 9 the -- we're looking down on the carpet, and I'm 10 outlining one of the carpet cells. And I called 11 them carpet squares, but nature doesn't make 12 squares very well. You just look around, you'll 13 see smooth surfaces. And that's the nature of 14 these naturally occurring surfaces. So this is a 15 carpet oval, and there's another oddly shaped cell 16 over here. 17 And so we have these big flat cells. I'll 18 give you the big name for them. They're called 19 epithelial cells. So epithelial cells cover 20 surfaces. Your skin is an epithelium, we call it 21 epidermis. The epithelial cells that cover our 22 airspace surfaces have very special names. We call 23 them Type 1 epithelial cells, and then there are 24 these round, kind of smaller round ones that we 25 call unfortunately Type 2 epithelial cells. Page 463 1 So the Type 1 epithelial cells allow the : 2 movement of oxygen and carbon dioxide. If the Type 3 1 cells get injured by infection or asbestos, the 4 Type 2 cells very quickly start to divide and take 5 their place. So we all have a repair mechanism in 6 every one of our air spaces should -- because we 7 have to have an intact carpet to move oxygen and 8 carbon dioxide. 9 Okay. We have one more line of defense. I'm : 10 going to take us down there right on the carpet. 11 You'll be able to -- I've magnified it so that if 12 you're interested you can actually count the number 13 of bumps on these little cells. And it's important 14 to know things like that because these cells are 15 very -- are essential to life. They produce a 16 substance that keeps the air spaces from 17 collapsing. So, I mean, these are very important 18 cells. 19 Let's go down now onto the carpet here, and so : 20 there's the cell with the bumps all over it. Like 21 I said, you can even count the bumps because I 22 magnified this many thousands of times. And there 23 are two other actors that you haven't seen before. 24 There's this cell kind of sitting there ruffled, 25 not going anywhere. And then there's this cell Page 464 1 that has a tail end and a couple of what are called 2 false feet out in front of it. And I caught this 3 cell in the act as it was heading in this direction 4 towards me, actually, and it was going, when I 5 caught it, it was going after this pollen grain 6 right here. 7 So this lung once belonged to somebody who was : 8 killed in a motorcycle accident. I was on the 9 medical examiner's autopsy call, and I went in and 10 prepared this person's lung within a few hours 11 after death. And we have these chemicals that fix 12 the lung in a very lifelike condition. And as this 13 person was riding along on his motorcycle, I'm sure 14 he was inhaling a lot of different things. One 15 thing we know he inhaled was this pollen grain 16 right here, and it went zipping right past his 17 mouth and nose and the cilia and landed on the 18 carpet. 19 We don't want any kind of foreign particles : 20 sitting on these epithelial cells that allow our 21 oxygen and carbon dioxide, so we have these cells 22 called -- they're called macrophages. Macro means 23 big and phage means eater. These cells patrol our 24 airspace surfaces, and they can detect the presence 25 of foreign particles. They're covered with Page 465 1 chemical receptors that allow them to recognize 2 things that don't belong there. In my laboratory, 3 we discovered the chemical signal that attracts 4 these macrophages to asbestos. Part of the 5 asbestos story. How do the macrophages find the 6 asbestos so they can get the fibers out of the 7 lung. That's the story there. It only took five 8 years to figure it out, but that's what we - 9 Okay. So now you've seen all the cells you : 10 need to see to understand what happens when 11 asbestos gets into the air, so we can talk about 12 asbestos. 13 Q That was where I was going to go next, Doctor. Can : 14 you tell the jury first, what is asbestos? 15 A Sure. So this is one of the asbestos varieties, : 16 chrysotile asbestos. It's one of the six different 17 asbestos varieties. Asbestos is a naturally 18 occurring mineral that's been mined in various 19 places around the world. All of the asbestos 20 varieties cause all of the asbestos diseases. 21 Chrysotile is the most used asbestos : 22 commercially, about 95 percent of the world's use. 23 Chrysotile comes from a mineral group called 24 serpentine mineral. And you can actually see why 25 it's called serpentine just by noticing that some Page 466 1 of these fibers are kind of curly. And when you 2 look at the ore as it comes out of the ground, the 3 rock, the asbestos has a serpent-like quality in 4 the rock, and so it was named serpentine. So 5 that's the mineral. That's one kind of asbestos. 6 Now, the other five asbestos varieties are in : 7 a mineral group called amphibole, 8 A-M-P-H-I-B-O-L-E. Now, the amphibole varieties, 9 there are five of them. The most commercially 10 useful were crocidolite and amosite, but there's 11 also anthophyllite, tremolite, and actinolite. So 12 those are the five of the amphibole bracket. 13 What makes them asbestos is that they have an : 14 elemental signature. They have a certain 15 combination of elements like magnesium and silicon 16 and iron and sodium in a specific pattern that a 17 mineralogist or a scientist like myself can look at 18 the array of elements and look at the structure and 19 tell you what kind of asbestos it is. 20 All of the asbestos varieties are fibers by : 21 definition. A fiber is a structure three times 22 longer than it is wide. That makes it a fiber. If 23 it's a fiber with the elemental construction, the 24 elemental content of asbestos, as has been defined 25 by mineralogists for decades, we call it asbestos. Page 467 1 All of the asbestos varieties, as well as a number 2 of other fibers that are persistent in the lung, 3 cause the diseases, all of the diseases that we 4 know of as asbestos diseases. 5 Q Now, we've talked about asbestos. Is there 6 something called asbestiform? 7 A Sure. 8 Q What is that? 9 A Well, asbestiform means it's a fiber with the 10 elemental content of asbestos. I mean, that's what 1.3:37:2 1.3:37:2 1.3:37:3 1.3:37:3 11 asbestiform means. 12 Q And all the types of asbestos fibers cause all the 13 types of disease; correct? 14 A Yes, that's correct. 15 Q Does that mean that the asbestiform fibers can 1.3:37:4 1.3:37:4 1.3:37:4 16 cause all those diseases? 17 A Yeah, absolutely, that's correct. 18 Q So where do we go next, Doctor? 19 A Okay. So this is an example of chrysotile. As I 20 told you, we'll see an amphibole fiber in a picture 1.3:37:4 1.3:37:5 1.3:37:5 21 coming up later on. But one of the things that I 22 learned from Dr. Wagner was how to set up the 23 animal experiments where we could ask what sound 24 like simple questions, but took a long time to sort 25 out. Page 468 1 So, for example, if I wanted -- we knew the :.3 :3 8 :1 2 fibers went in going to the lung and caused 3 disease, but I just showed you that the lung is a 4 very complex organ. So where in the asbestos - 5 where in the lung did those fibers go? Well, we 6 couldn't go to the library and get that answer. 7 Then the question was, well, once they get into the 8 lung, how do they interact and cause injury to all 9 those different cells that I was just showing you? 10 You couldn't go to the library and find that out. 11 So I started a series of experiments that helps to 12 explain that. 13 Q Is there a particular animal that you used in the 14 animal model? 15 A Yeah, we used rats and mice typically. 16 Q Why is that? 17 A Well, they're easy to procure. Their genetics are 18 well established. So the animals can be more or :.3 :38 :4 :.3 :38 :4 :.3 :38 :4 :.3 :3 8 :5 19 less susceptible to developing disease. It depends 20 on the questions you want to ask. 21 But understand that you can't learn everything :.3 :3 9 : C 22 you want to know by using animal studies. But if 23 you ask the right questions, there's a lot to be 24 learned. You have to understand what you can learn 25 and what you cannot. We know that the animals, Page 469 1 that rats and mice get the same asbestos diseases 2 as people from the same cells, but the time frames 3 are different. The animals live two to three 4 years. You know, in people the diseases don't show 5 up for decades after exposure. We'll talk some 6 more about that, I'm sure. 7 So, for example, I'm not going to be able to 1.3:39:3 8 tell you how much asbestos it takes to cause 9 disease in a person by using animals. You can't do 10 that. They don't live long enough. You can't give 11 them the same kind of exposures that people get 12 necessarily. So you have to know what the limits 13 are to the animals when you're using them. 14 Now, take any human disease, we have animal 15 models of the disease, whether it's all the 1.3:39:5 16 asbestos diseases or tuberculosis or a whole series 17 of viral disease, diabetes. We have animal models 18 that help us understand human disease. This is a 19 classic method that scientists use. 20 Q Are we going to talk now about the work you've done 21 in that regard? 22 A Well, I have a few slides to show you how asbestos 1.3:40:2 1.3:40:2 23 moves through the lung, and then we'll talk about 24 cancer. 25 Q E x c e l l e n t . 1.3:40:3 Page 470 1 A So we may -- aerosols, we made a dust. We have 2 these chambers about six feet high and four feet 3 wide, and you put the rats or mice in the chambers 4 and you make it very dusty in the chamber. And if 5 I expose the animals for an hour and then at the 6 end of that hour I take them out of the chamber and 7 I give them an overdose of anesthetic, overdose 8 means they don't wake up from that, and any 9 asbestos that I find in the -- I see in the lung 10 must have landed there during that first hour, and 11 then I can tell you where the fibers land. And 12 then if I look at a group animals an hour later or 13 two hours later or a week later, months, years, 14 depends on, again, what you want to know, you can 15 sort out a lot about the diseases that are going on 16 in people. 17 Now, I did not attempt to produce a 18 mesothelioma in these animals because that had 19 already been done. Dr. Wagner had already done 20 that. Other scientists like Dr. McConnell had 21 already done that. And so -- and that takes years 22 of exposure, and just like in people, only a small 23 percentage of the animals get the disease, get the 24 mesothelioma at the end of their life span. It's 25 very much like the humans in that regard. But I Page 471 1 didn't need to do that all over again. I wanted to 2 focus on the early events, what are the kinds of 3 changes that we know will lead to mesothelioma and 4 other asbestos diseases. 5 Q Will you walk us through what you learned in doing 6 that? 7 A Here we go. 8 Q Great. 9 A All right. So this is the lung. This is from the 10 lung of a rat. It looks familiar to you, I'm sure. :.3 :41:5 :.3 :42 : C :.3 :42 : C :.3 :42 : C 11 The end of the airway where it opens out into the 12 gas exchange and you can see some of the small 13 airspaces as we've described earlier. And I'm 14 going to focus on this spot right here. You see 15 this black hole actually is this black hole. I 16 want to back up for a second because that means 17 we're looking at this surface immediately after a 18 single hour of exposure. And this is one of 19 millions of spots like this around the lung. I'm 20 just giving you an example of one of these. And in 21 our papers that we wrote, we showed -- you know, we 22 had to count thousands of spots like this to prove 23 what we're -- what we're saying. 24 So I'm going to focus on this spot right here. :.3 : 4 2 :5 25 And so you can see this fiber here is -- this is a Page 472 1 10-micron bar. Remember, we saw the 10-micron bar 2 earlier. So this is a 10-micron bar. That makes 3 this fiber about 10 microns long. We have some 4 long, curly fibers here. We have some short, 5 straight fibers. The key to this picture is that 6 you can see a lot of the asbestos, but some of the 7 asbestos you can't see. You see how this is -- you 8 can see the fibers here, but you can't see them 9 here. And you can see the fibers here, but you 10 can't see them here. 11 It turns out that these carpet cells, these : 12 epithelial cells, react very quickly to the 13 presence of this toxic asbestos and come up over 14 the top of the fibers and shove them under the 15 carpet. Now, it took us a while to figure that 16 out, but that's what's going on here. And the 17 fibers are getting shoved under the carpet. The 18 problem is that under the carpet, there is a space, 19 a storage space, but that's also where the fluid 20 flow of the lung is carried through. So the fluid 21 flow of the lung, as I'm going to show you in a 22 second, goes to the pleura. So if asbestos fibers 23 get into that space, they then have access to the 24 pleura. 25 So that's where we're going to go in the next : Page 473 1 slide. I'm going to show you another example, 2 again, from one of our experiments, one out of 3 thousands of places like this around the lung. 4 There's an airspace here. There's another airspace 5 here. And you can see there's actually a -- some 6 asbestos here, but it's covered over here. I don't 7 know if you can see this. Yeah, there's actually a 8 fiber right here that's completely covered. All 9 you can see is its electron shadow underneath the 10 epithelial carpet. And maybe -- and actually 11 here's a fiber bundle that's landed on the lung. 12 And you see these characters here that look : 13 like doughnuts. Well, this is what our red blood 14 cells look like. Our red blood cells look like 15 doughnuts because they have a depression, not a 16 hole, but they have a depression in the center, and 17 you can see how they're lined up in the 18 capillaries, in the small capillary blood spaces. 19 And this is the capillary flow of blood. Now, I 20 said this is what our red blood cells look like. 21 This is the lung of a rat. This is exactly the 22 same size and shape of our red blood cells. And 23 they're passing through the capillaries here, the 24 small blood spaces, and you see that some of the 25 asbestos is covered by the carpet. And so we're Page 474 1 going to talk now about the fluid flow of the lung. 2 Q One quick question before you do that, Doctor. You 3 said that was a fiber bundle. What's a fiber 4 bundle? 5 A It just means that there are a bunch of fibers 6 stuck together, and that's actually -- what I 7 showed you earlier, when I showed you the asbestos, 8 I showed you a fiber bundle with a bunch of fibers 9 stuck together. And these fibers that are in 10 bundle tend to come apart, and it's the individual 11 fibers that get inhaled, and a few fibers at a time 12 in small bundles can also be inhaled obviously, as 13 you see here, this is a fiber bundle. 14 So what we're going to do then is we're going 15 to talk about what's called the fluid flow of the 16 lung. Now, this is called a Netter diagram, 17 N-E-T-T-E-R. Dr. Netter has given us atlases of 18 the human body in health and disease. So we use 19 Dr. Netter's diagrams to help understand the 20 anatomy of the lung. Here Dr. Netter is showing us 21 the pattern of lymph flow in the lung. And you can 22 see Dr. Netter's given us these small vessels, many 23 of which end at the pleura. And these are lymph 24 vessels. 25 So you've probably all heard of lymph and Page 475 1 lymph nodes. Lymph is clear fluid that runs in our 2 bodies from head to toe, and it flows wherever 3 blood flows. If I were to take a blood vessel from 4 your body and cut across and you looked at the cut 5 end, you'd see a cuff around the outside of the 6 blood vessel where the lymph is flowing along with 7 the blood. Lymph has two major functions. One is 8 to carry cells of the immune system around the body 9 and to help us control pressure in our blood 10 vessels. 11 Now, we also have what are called lymph nodes. : 12 Lymph nodes are small bundles of tissue that filter 13 the lymph wherever it goes. We have lymph nodes, 14 again, from head to toe, in our neck, in our 15 armpits, throughout our body. And here Dr. Netter 16 is showing us some lymph nodes around the lung. So 17 these are called thoracic because they're in the 18 thorax, in the chest. And some investigators - 19 this is not my work, but some investigators looked 20 at the content of lymph nodes around the lung and 21 found that in people exposed to asbestos, there is 22 an increase in the number of fibers in these lymph 23 nodes. 24 Now, the way lymph nodes in the lung, around : 25 the lung get asbestos fibers is by inhaling the Page 476 1 asbestos, the asbestos lands on the carpet, get 2 transported through the carpet, as I showed you, 3 and get picked up by the lymph flow in the lung. 4 It I were to pull back the carpet, you'd see that 5 it's moist underneath the carpet. That moisture is 6 lymph. So it's not -- the lymph in our lungs is 7 not in vessels at the airspace floor, but that 8 fluid collects in these small vessels. So there's 9 a flow through the lung, and if there's asbestos in 10 that compartment, some proportion of those fibers 11 get picked up, carried in the lymph vessels to the 12 pleura. 13 Q And the pleura, is that where mesothelioma occurs? : 14 A Yeah, see on the outside lining of the lung, you : 15 can see a couple different things. You'd see a 16 layer of mesothelial cells. And also you can see 17 the pattern of lymph vessels as they are 18 distributed around the surface of the pleura. 19 Q So can you tell us, Doctor, once fibers are carried : 20 through the lymph system out to the mesothelial 21 lining, how they cause disease? 22 A That's where we're going. All of the asbestos : 23 fibers can get into this flow. All the asbestos 24 fiber types have been found in the pleura and in 25 the lymph nodes. Page 477 1 Okay. So I'm going to cut a piece of the lung :.3:49:1 2 out, and you'll see the pleura on the right. And 3 the artist is enhancing this issue of the lymph 4 flow, so let's look at that. So here's the normal 5 pleura over here. And then you can see the artist 6 has some fibers floating into the lung, like you 7 saw actually happens. And the fibers land down in 8 the airspaces. And here the artist says, lymphatic 9 fiber transport to the pleura. 10 So here you can see this fiber going in here 1.3:49:5 11 and getting -- the artist didn't know that I had 12 taken this picture earlier. It shows that very 13 thing. You see that little fiber poking its way - 14 let me see this. This little fiber right here, 15 poking its way into the flow, just like -- just 16 like the artist is showing here, okay. And so if 17 it flows into the flow, it reaches the normal 18 mesothelial cells and once it reaches this target 19 cell, can cause that cell to become a cancer cell, 20 which is exactly what we're going to talk about. 21 Q So can you walk us through, once it gets there, how 22 it causes those cells to be cancerous? 23 A Okay. 24 Q What happens first? 25 A Exactly. Okay. So here's what a normal pleura 1.3 :50 :3 1.3 :50 :3 1.3 :50 :3 1.3 :50 :4 Page 478 1 should look like, thin and shiny, because it has a 2 moist surface on the outside. Remember, I showed 3 you about -- told you about the secretions, and 4 there's also lymph out in the -- in that space, 5 just outside the pleura. So it's moist, shiny, and 6 compare that to a mesothelioma, where the pleura is 7 dramatically thickened, not only around the lung, 8 but against the chest wall as well. And it can 9 spread into the lung and underneath the lung, and 10 that's a mesothelioma. 11 And then, of course, the question is, how does 12 asbestos cause those mesothelial cells to become 13 cancer cells. So I have a few slides to go there. 14 Q I'd like to walk through that so the jury 15 understands how the asbestos actually causes the 16 disease. 17 A Okay. So this slide is the cover of a proceedings 18 of a conference I was at a few years ago. And 19 the -- and I gave a talk at this conference, and 20 the focus was how fibers cause cancer. You see 21 carcinocancer genesis, formation, how do fibers 22 cause cancer to form. That was the focus of the 23 meeting. 24 I've been talking to you today about cells, 25 and I showed you some cells. I showed you some Page 479 1 lung cells and a variety of different kinds of 2 cells. And you saw how those cells interact with 3 asbestos. But you cannot talk about cancer unless 4 you talk about the molecular aspects. 5 Molecular biology is the study of genes and : 6 genetics. Cancer is a genetic disease. Cancer 7 develops when there are mistakes, errors, 8 mutations, pretty much the same thing, in a set of 9 genes that controls cell growth. So I'm going to 10 give you the simplest definition of cancer, and 11 I'll come back to what I just said, okay. 12 Cancer is the loss of control of cell growth. : 13 I'll say that again, and then I'll explain. Cancer 14 is the loss of control of cell growth. If I took a 15 piece of your skin and I put it under a microscope, 16 I can show you that about 10 percent of your skin 17 cells are dividing. You're always losing skin. 18 You always have to replace it. And we do that at a 19 rate of about 10 percent. 20 Your lung and your liver, you shouldn't have : 21 to be replacing a lot of lung and liver cells. We 22 do that at a rate of about 1 percent. The 23 mesothelial surfaces, a half of 1 percent. Very 24 low background rate of replacement for mesothelial 25 cells. These rates of growth are tightly Page 480 1 controlled by specific genes. 2 Now, genes are short segments of DNA. Our DNA 3 is our genetic material. We'll talk more about 4 that. Humans have about 20,000 or so genes that 5 make us who we are. You can see what a few of 6 those genes do. Look around, you see different eye 7 color, skin color, different sized people, 8 different metabolic rates. That's what a few of 9 our 20,000 or so genes do. 10 About a hundred of those 20,000 genes are 11 called growth control genes. Now, what did I tell 12 you was the definition of cancer? The loss of 13 control of cell growth. That means that you have 14 to have a series of errors in genes that control 15 cell growth. That's what carcinogens do. 16 Carcinogens, cancer causing agents, cause loss of 17 control -- I'm sorry, cancer causing agents cause 18 damage to genes that control cell growth leading to 19 cancer. 20 Asbestos is a carcinogen. All the asbestos 21 varieties are carcinogens, cancer causing agents. 22 And they're complete carcinogens. That's all you 23 need. You don't need anything else along with the 24 asbestos to cause the genetic errors that lead to 25 cancer. Page 481 1 So there are a number of ways to study these ] 2 things, the molecular biology and the genetics of 3 these diseases. One of the ways to do it is by 4 taking cells out of the body, out of animals, out 5 of people, and put the cells in a dish, put 6 millions of cells in very special dishes and give 7 them the right nutrients, and those cells will 8 continue to grow. And you can add the agents 9 you're interested in studying, it could be asbestos 10 or other kinds of fibers or other agents, and 11 actually watch how that happens and study the 12 chemistry and the molecular biology. 13 And on the cover of this proceedings is an ] 14 example of that, what I'm just telling you about. 15 And there are two cells here. I'm outlining one of 16 the cells over here and I'm outlining the other one 17 over here on. And you can see that some fibers 18 have been added to these cells. There's kind of a 19 long fiber over here and some bunch of short 20 fibers. And those fibers are collected around the 21 center circle in the cell. And the center circle 22 in the cell is called the nucleus. And the nucleus 23 of our cells contains all of our DNA. All of our 24 20,000 or so genes are crammed up inside this 25 center circle, and this center circle is about Page 482 1 10 microns across, okay. So there's no way -- you 2 need a microscope to see the nucleus, of course. 3 Now, you can see how most of the -- or 13 :56 :1 4 actually, in this situation, all of the fibers are 5 excluded from the DNA in the nucleus. That's 6 because we have a very effective membrane that 7 surrounds the nucleus and protects the DNA. Well, 8 one of the things that scientists have known for a 9 long time is that when cells divide, when cells are 10 dividing, they lose that protective membrane around 11 the DNA. So that means that a cell that's dividing 12 is more likely to become a cancer cell. 13 So in my laboratory with other collaborating 3 :56 :4 14 laboratories, we carried out some experiments 15 asking what would happen if we added asbestos and 16 other agents to cells that were dividing. So we 17 can see. 18 Q Can I go back to one thing you said? 19 A Of course. 20 Q You said asbestos is a complete carcinogen. 21 A Right. 22 Q Does that mean that asbestos by itself can cause 23 uncontrolled growth in mesothelial cells? 24 A Yeah. So if you have asbestos as a carcinogen and 13:57:0 13:57:0 13 :57 : C 13 :57 : C 13 :57 : C 33: 57:1 25 do exactly that, if you have enough -- but you have Page 483 1 to have enough errors. In other words, a single 2 error in a gene is not enough. And let me -- so 3 you reminded me of something. So these genes that 4 I told you were growth control genes, some of them 5 that I'm going to talk about are called tumor 6 suppressor genes. A little something about that. 7 Some of them are called DNA repair genes. 8 You see, I told you about our -- some of our 9 defense mechanisms that protect our airways, nose 10 and cilia and things like that. Those are 11 structural defenses. We have a whole series of 12 molecular defenses, and those are actually even 13 more important when it gets down to taking care of 14 cells that are affected by these carcinogens. So 15 the molecular defenses are the reason that most of 16 us, no matter how much asbestos we're exposed to, 17 don't get mesothelioma. 18 What happens to these genes creates a 19 situation called susceptibility, how susceptible is 20 one to getting mesothelioma. Well, most of us, not 21 very. In fact, most of us, not at all. So we'll 22 go into the genetic basis for susceptibility as we 23 go along here. But basically, it's all related to 24 this set of growth control genes that we all have. 25 So this is what is supposed to happen when Page 484 1 cells divide. So in order to understand what 2 happens -- what's not supposed to happen, you have 3 to understand what happens. 4 So here's what happens when cells divide. 5 There are three cells, one, two, and three. The 6 two cells on the outside are not dividing. The DNA 7 is staying blue, so you can see it, and all 8 contained in the nucleus with a nuclear membrane. 9 But the cell in the center has received a signal to 10 divide. Now, that could mean that I treated it 11 with a growth hormone or that could mean there's a 12 skin cell and you got your skin scraped away that 13 you got the signal to divide because you need to 14 replace that injured skin. 15 Whatever the reason, what we do is we condense 16 the DNA in the nucleus into these white threads 17 called chromosomes. Chromosomes are bands of 18 condensed DNA. And all of our 20,000 or so genes 19 are lined up on these chromosomes. And let me show 20 you those chromosomes. 21 So humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes. 22 You've got one from your mother and one from your 23 father. And you see those light and dark bands. 24 That's where the 20,000 or so genes are 25 distributed. And one of the National Institutes of Page 485 1 Health is called the National Human Genome 2 Institute. And the Human Genome Institute is in 3 the process of sorting out where on the chromosomes 4 are every one of our 20,000 or so genes because if 5 a gene is not where it's supposed to be, on the 6 correct chromosome and in the exact spot where it's 7 supposed to be on that chromosome, it will not 8 function. So we have to know where those genes 9 are, on which chromosome, and exactly where on the 10 chromosome. So then you can know if it's where 11 it's supposed to be, and if it's not working, you 12 can measure that. 13 So I'm going to tell you about one of those 14 hundred growth control genes. I'm going to tell 15 you about one. And I'm telling you about one of 16 them because we've studied them in my laboratory, 17 we've published papers about this gene, and it's 18 called p53. Now, it turns out that p53 was the 19 molecule of the year in 1993. It had its own cover 20 on Science magazine. And it also has a couple of 21 nicknames. One is it's a tumor suppressor gene. 22 And another one is it's called the guardian of the 23 genome. This is a very important gene that 24 protects most of us from getting cancer. 25 Now, the way it does that is if, for example, Page 486 1 one of the other -- a piece of a chromosome or 2 other genes get damaged by a carcinogen, p53 gets 3 activated and stops the cell from dividing. It 4 stops that process so the mistakes can't get passed 5 on to the new cells. Not only that, but p53 6 organizes what's called a death pathway. Most 7 cells with genetic damage die. You never hear from 8 them again. And that is a very important molecular 9 defense that we all have, and p53 is essential, 10 along with other genes. We have a number of 11 backups. Most of us are not going to get cancer. 12 Even cigarette smokers, which cigarette smoking has 13 nothing to do with mesothelioma, but it has a lot 14 to do with lung cancers from smokers, even most 15 smokers don't get lung cancer because of our 16 molecular defenses. 17 So let's finish this process of cell division. 18 Here the chromosomes have been stained purple so 19 you can see them. Now if they go through what's 20 called faithful replication with every gene in the 21 right place on the right chromosome, then you get 22 two normal what are called daughter cells. Now, 23 the daughter cells can form even if everything's 24 not where it's supposed to be, but that's when the 25 problems occur if all the genes aren't in the right Page 487 1 place. 2 So let's go ahead and look at some of the 3 experiments we did to understand what's happening 4 as the cells are dividing. I have two more slides. 5 Q No. Tell me what this one is, Doctor. 6 A So in Panel A -- now, this is one of millions of 7 cells in the experiment. I'm showing you one. And 8 in this one, there's no asbestos. Half of the 9 chromosomes go to one side, half to the other, and 10 we'll have two normal daughter cells. 11 Over here, these cells have been treated with 12 an amphibole asbestos. And you can see there's 13 kind of a long fiber here. Actually, the cell's 14 about 40 microns across. That makes this fiber 15 30 microns and this fiber 20 microns and these 16 fibers 10 microns and 5 microns. So some -- there 17 are long fibers and short fibers. Most of the DNA 18 has gone where it's supposed to go, but some of the 19 DNA is bound to the surface of the fibers resulting 20 in this condition called aneuploidy. 21 Now, aneuploidy just simply means abnormal 22 chromosome separation. And I want to show you one 23 more example of that. And these are now 24 mesothelial cells treated with chrysotile producing 25 the same thing where some of the DNA is bound to Page 488 1 the surface of the chrysotile fiber, again, 2 producing this condition, aneuploidy. Now, these 3 are not cancer cells, but the door has been opened. 4 And if you've been listening to anything I'm saying 5 today, you'll know that any DNA, any genes that are 6 in this DNA that bound to the asbestos, any genes 7 in that DNA are not where they're supposed to be. 8 That means that those genes will not function. 9 Now, I can't tell you which genes are in there. 10 I'd have to collect that DNA and do the sequences 11 to know, but we know whatever genes are there are 12 not going to function. 13 So if in this DNA are genes that protect us, : 14 like p53, we have a whole series of what are called 15 DNA repair genes, because they make enzymes that 16 can actually knit back together damaged DNA. So if 17 somebody's DNA repair genes are working better or 18 less likely to be damaged, they'll be less 19 susceptible than the next person. If somebody's 20 p53 genes are more robust and more likely to 21 function, they'll be less susceptible. 22 Susceptibility is all based on what happens to your 23 genes, how well protected they are and what happens 24 to those individual genes. 25 Q And so when cells divide, the asbestos causes that : Page 489 1 genetic damage? 2 A That's correct, yeah. Now, you just reminded me of 3 something else, if I can say. 4 Not only does asbestos bind DNA, as I can show 5 you, asbestos, all the asbestos varieties generate 6 what's called -- what are called oxygen radicals. 7 Reactive oxygen species is another name for them. 8 We make them all the time actually in our body as 9 we metabolize food, as we fight infection. We make 10 reactive oxygen species. But we've known for a 11 long time that reactive oxygen species cause 12 genetic damage. Typically they're not doing that 13 when they're doing what they're supposed to do in 14 their normal amounts because flowing in our blood 15 are antioxidants, and that keeps a balance. So the 16 reactive oxygen species are not causing genetic 17 damage because they're -- they are in the right 18 balance. 19 Now, you go out in the sun and you have UV 20 radiation on your skin, that sets up oxygen 21 radicals and causes genetic damage in your skin. 22 And typically those skin cells with reactive oxygen 23 damage die, and they die and don't cause cancer 24 because the genes that protect us kick in and kill 25 those cells. Page 490 1 You walk by somebody else's cigarette smoke, 2 you get some genetic damage in your airway, and 3 those cells can become aneuploid, but they die. 4 And so they never become a cancer because of our 5 genetic defenses. That's going on in all of us all 6 the time. 7 Q Now, Doctor, this doesn't happen just because one 8 cell divides once, does it? 9 A Absolutely not. And this is the last slide and 10 goes into exactly what you're asking me. Okay. 11 Q And what is this slide? 12 A So I want -- with this slide, I want to kind of 13 reiterate a bit about this very complex topic of 14 cancer formation, and I also want to have you 15 understand what's going on during this process 16 called latency. Latency, time from first exposure 17 till the time the person comes to the clinic, 18 typically decades, many decades. And I want you to 19 understand what's going on in that time period, and 20 then I'll be done. 21 Okay. So the artist has given us here a layer 22 of perfectly good mesothelial cells. Single cell 23 layer, cells tightly opposed to one another, a 24 single nucleus with all the DNA that it contains. 25 And then the artist gives us a couple lightning Page 491 1 bolts and says DNA damage. As far as I know, 2 lightning doesn't cause DNA damage. What he's 3 talking about is something coming from the 4 environment, and we're talking about the -- about a 5 mesothelioma, very rare cancer, caused by asbestos. 6 So the artist in this case -- think about asbestos 7 coming in and causing DNA damage by the mechanisms 8 that I showed you. You need DNA binding and/or 9 oxygen radical generation. 10 And the cell's dividing. We know it's ] 11 dividing because we can see the chromosomes. 12 That's the only time you really can see the 13 chromosomes. And the artist has one of the 14 daughter cells going up into the upper left-hand 15 corner and dying because the artist knows very well 16 that cells with DNA damage typically die and you 17 never hear from them again. You can see the DNA is 18 clumped up. The surface of the cell is bubbled up, 19 and there's actually a macrophage coming in here to 20 clean up the mess. That's what macrophages do. 21 But we're talking about a cancer. And the ] 22 artist is giving us a tumor over here. I'll tell 23 about that funny green color in just a minute. But 24 the artist says, tumor genesis or tumor formation, 25 and that means that one of the daughter cells must Page 492 1 have survived. One of the daughter cells with 2 genetic damage must have survived, and that's this 3 one right here, has survived. And -- but the 4 artist hasn't given me much space to talk about the 5 latency. So between this first daughter cell and 6 the generation of this first malignant cell in the 7 tumor, you've got to give me about 50 years. 8 Latencies can be anywhere from -- I've seen a : 9 brief latency of 10 years, very few latencies of 20 10 years. I've seen a couple at 80. 70 is long. 11 Somewhere between 30 and 60 years are most 12 mesothelioma -- most latencies of mesothelioma. 13 Somewhere between 30 and 60 years. You wouldn't 14 exclude an asbestos if it were -- asbestos cause if 15 it were more than 60 or less than 20, but most of 16 them fall in that range. 17 Okay. So what's happening in those 60 years, : 18 let's say? So think about this layer of 19 mesothelial cells now sitting on the outside lining 20 of the wall. And you have now a mesothelial cell 21 with genetic damage. This cell has an error, has 22 DNA damage. It could be an error in one of the 23 genes that I told you about, a DNA repair gene or a 24 p53 gene, something like that. And there are a 25 whole series of genes. I mean, some scientists Page 493 1 have taken tumors from people with mesotheliomas 2 and they've made a complete array of what errors, 3 what genes have been damaged in those tumors. 4 So we have lists of dozens of different genes. : 5 There are some that show up every time, so we have 6 lists of genes that we expect to be damaged. What 7 we don't have, which some very influential 8 scientists are working on right now, is just which 9 genes must be damaged for a mesothelioma to 10 develop. 11 But understanding that scientists are getting : 12 closer to that and that we have an array of genetic 13 damage, think about that single cell sitting on the 14 mesothelial surface with an error in a gene that 15 controls cell growth like the ones I was telling 16 you about. And that cell sits there looking and 17 acting like a normal mesothelial cell for months. 18 No one would ever know it was there. One error is 19 not enough, two is not enough, three is not enough, 20 four is not enough, five is probably not enough. 21 As you start getting more than five or six errors, 22 it increases the likelihood that the cell is going 23 to lose control of growth and develop into a tumor. 24 But let's go back to now that cell with one : 25 error. And it's sitting there for months, but Page 494 1 eventually it has to divide, two cells, four, 2 eight, 16, 32, 64, all with that error. Making 3 what's called a field, a separate field of cells, 4 just like the original, a microscopic field now 5 sitting on the surface of the wall. And one or 6 more of those cells has to get hit again. Another 7 fiber causes a second error in one or more of those 8 cells in the field. And that cell now with one - 9 with more than one error sits there looking and 10 acting like a normal cell for months in its own 11 field, right. And then eventually it has to 12 divide, two, four -- two cells, four cells, eight, 13 16, 32, making a separate field, all with cells 14 with the same two errors or four errors or six 15 errors, whatever it happens to be for that time. 16 Now, think about that process for decades. : 17 And during those decades, our molecular defenses 18 are constantly killing those potential cancer cells 19 and we're constantly repairing DNA. In a person 20 with a cancer, a mesothelioma, what you know is 21 that in a single cell with sufficient errors and in 22 the right combination of errors for that person has 23 grown out into a tumor, and that's why the artist 24 made these all the same green color, because the 25 artist knows very well that this tumor is a clone Page 495 1 from a single cell with sufficient errors in the 2 right combination for that person that grew out 3 decades after that person first started being 4 exposed to asbestos. 5 And then eventually that tumor grows and 6 brings that person to the clinic, and then you know 7 the rest of that story. 8 Q Doctor, I had all these other questions for you 9 that I've now crossed off, but I have a few 10 follow-ups, if I may. 11 A Yeah, of course. 12 Q I'm just going to change position here. 13 Doctor, you've now walked us through 14 essentially from the moment that someone inhales 15 asbestos fibers through the lung to the pleura and 16 then through the cause of the damage that develops 17 in the mesothelioma; is that correct? 18 A That's right, yes. 19 Q I just want to come back out and talk about a 20 couple of concepts at a 30,000-foot level that I 21 believe you understand because of your work in this 22 regard. 23 First, is there something in the scientific 24 literature known as a signal or sentinel tumor? 25 A Sure. Page 496 1 Q What is that? 2 A Yes. So this is the kind of tumor that signals to 3 the physician a kind of exposure. So, for example, 4 if somebody comes into the clinic with a lung 5 cancer, the doctor typically asks, how long did you 6 smoke, because 90 percent of people with lung 7 cancers were cigarette smokers. 8 Mesothelioma is a signal tumor. The question 9 typically asked is, where were you exposed to 10 asbestos. 11 Q So mesothelioma is a signal or sentinel tumor for 12 asbestos exposure? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q Now, Doctor, is there also something in the 15 asbestos scientific literature known as a dose 16 response? 17 A Yeah, of course. That simply means the more you're 18 exposed to it, the more likely you are to get the 19 disease. 20 Q Now, the last concept I want to ask you about, is 21 there something known as a cumulative exposure or 22 cumulative disease process? 23 A Yeah, sure. 24 Q What does that mean? 25 A So this is very important, particularly for the Page 497 1 asbestos diseases and basically any kind of cancer, 2 because I just told you about dose response, the 3 more you're exposed to it, the more likely you are 4 to get disease. The disease is based on the 5 person's dose. How much did they get? Was it 6 enough for that person? If they got a dose and 7 then they got the disease, obviously it was enough 8 for that person. 9 But how did they get that dose is based upon 10 their background. Where were they exposed. 11 Wherever the person was exposed to asbestos and the 12 asbestos got into the air and they inhaled it 13 contributed to that -- produced that person's dose. 14 Q Doctor, if I give you an analogy for that, will you 15 tell me whether I've got it right as it relates to 16 asbestos and causing disease? 17 A Okay. 18 Q If I put a glass in the sink and the glass is empty 19 and the faucet is dripping and the drops fill the 20 glass and the overflow essentially is cancer, is 21 the process you're describing essentially all of 22 those drops coming together to cause that overflow? 23 A Yes. 24 one. I mean, that's fair, except I have a better 25 Q I w o u l d l o v e y o u r b e t t e r one, p l e a s e . Page 498 1 A So it's okay, except that a drop of water is no big 2 deal, right. But a better analogy would be a 3 cigarette smoker. And remember, cigarette smoking 4 has nothing to do with mesothelioma, but 5 understand -- so a person starts smoking as a 6 youngster, okay, in their teenage years and they 7 start smoking Camels or Lucky Strikes or whatever 8 it was. And then they switch a few years later and 9 they go to Marlboros or Parliaments or whatever 10 people smoked. And they buy cartons and they buy 11 packs and they borrow some cigarettes and they're 12 smoking through the decades, and then they show up 13 one day with a lung cancer. 14 What caused the lung cancer? Which brand? 15 Okay. Which pack? Which carton? Every one of 16 them added a carcinogen to that person's target 17 cell, and ended up -- and the process is the same 18 as I just described. The main carcinogen in 19 tobacco produces these oxygen radicals I was 20 telling you about. So it's really more of an 21 oxygen radical mediated cancer, but the concepts 22 are exactly the same. The more you're exposed to, 23 the more likely you are to get these changes. And 24 that's what dose response is all about, and that's 25 why it's a cumulative exposure. Page 499 1 Q And does that mean that mesothelioma is a disease :.4 :18 :4 2 of cumulative exposure to asbestos? 3 A Exactly. 4 MR. GREENE: Doctor, those are all the 5 questions I have. Thank you so much. 6 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 7 MR. GREENE: I'm sure someone else will have 8 some questions for you. 9 THE WITNESS: Sure. 10 MR. GREENE: Thank you. 11 MR. HARNEY: You're welcome. 12 THE COURT: Thank you. 13 I was going to give the jury just a few 14 seconds to stand up and stretch if you'd like :.4 :18 :5 :.4 :18 :5 :.4 :18 :5 :.4 :18 :5 :.4 :18 :5 :.4 :18 :5 :.4 :19 : C :.4 :19 : C :.4 :19 : C 15 before cross-examination begins. We're not going 16 to go anywhere. I just thought you might want 17 to ... 18 MS. MALIK: And Your Honor, would it be all :.4 :19:1 19 right if I moved the flip chart up there? 20 THE COURT: Certainly. :.4 :19:1 21 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, will it be okay if at :.4 :2 0 :1 22 whatever point this is used, if I can just get up 23 and go over there. 24 MS. MALIK: And I'll read out anything. 25 THE COURT: Would you like to position :.4 :2 0 :1 :.4 :2 0 :1 Page 500 1 yourself now so you can see? 2 MR. GREENE: Sure, that's fine. 3 (A discussion was held off the record.) 4 CROSS-EXAMINATION 5 BY MS. MALIK: 6 Q Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, 7 Dr. Brody. 8 I've got a flip chart up here. I had two 9 professors who liked to write on the board, because 1.4:20:2 1.4:20:5 1.4:20:5 1.4:20:5 1.4:20:5 :.4 :21 : C 10 I think subconsciously I wanted to be one too. So 11 I'll write -- probably take a few notes just to 12 orient the jury if that's all right. 13 A I'll see what you write. 14 Q Before I get started writing anything, I think you 15 said that you were first retained as an expert :.4 :21:1 :.4 :21:1 16 witness in an asbestos case in 1989. 17 A That's right. 18 Q That's 30 years ago? 19 A I guess so. 20 Q But since 1989, is it fair to say you've testified 21 in front of hundreds of juries? 22 A I'm sure. 23 Q And 99 percent of the time, about, you testified 24 for plaintiffs' firms? :.4 :21:2 :.4 :21:2 :.4 :21:2 :.4 :21:3 :.4 :21:3 :.4 :21:3 25 A R i g h t . A n d t h e o t h e r t i m e I t e s t i f i e d f o r :.4 : 2 1 :4 Page 501 1 product -- asbestos product manufacturers who asked 2 me to give exactly the same testimony that I gave 3 here today. That's right. 4 Q And you just mentioned asbestos products. You've 5 testified on a number of different asbestos 14:21:5 6 products over the years; is that right? 7 A Sure. 8 Q That would include things like asbestos insulation? 9 A Yeah. 10 Q Pipe covering? 11 A Right. 12 Q Spray fireproofing? 13 A Sure. 14 Q And so you would agree that those products can 15 cause exposure to asbestos? 16 A No question. 17 Q And if those products are installed somewhere, they 18 can create exposures long after that installation; 14:21:5 1.4 :2 2 : C 1.4 :2 2 : C 1.4 :2 2 : C 1.4 :2 2 : C 1.4 :2 2 : C 1.4 :2 2 : C 1.4 :2 2 : C 14:22:1 14:22:1 19 right? 20 A Of course. 21 Q And the first time that you were retained to give 22 an opinion about cosmetic talc would be 2016 or 1.4:22:2 1.4:22:2 23 thereabouts? 24 A I think that's right. 25 Q And the 154 articles that you mentioned earlier 1.4:22:3 1.4:22:3 Page 502 1 that are on your CV, none of those pertain to 2 cosmetic talc, do they? 3 A Well, none of them pertain to products actually, so 4 certainly not talc. I mean, my work has been 1.4:22:4 5 basically asbestos. It doesn't matter where it 6 comes from. The lung doesn't discriminate. So of 7 course, it has nothing to do with a specific 8 product. It has to do with any product that 9 releases asbestos. 10 Q And to that point, nothing in that slide show was 11 specific to Johnson's baby powder? 12 A No, it's specific to what asbestos does, regardless 13 of the source. 14 Q So likewise, you are not here to give any 15 particular opinions about any of Ms. Lewis' 1.4 :2 3 : C 1.4 :2 3 : C :.4 :2 3 :1 16 exposures; correct? 17 A That's right. 18 Q And you haven't reviewed any of her medical 1.4:23:2 1.4:23:2 19 records? 20 A True. 21 Q And you're also not here to give any particular 22 opinions about the dose of asbestos that she may or 1.4:23:2 1.4:23:2 23 may not have been exposed to? 24 A No. None of that would affect the opinions that I 25 gave you today about how asbestos causes disease. 1.4:23:3 Page 503 1 You'll, I'm sure, learn about all those other 2 things from other people. 3 Q Sure. And you had mentioned that asbestos is a 4 dose-response disease -- or mesothelioma is a 1.4:23:4 5 dose-response disease; right? 6 A That's right. 7 Q And that means that the greater the dose of 8 asbestos, the greater the risk? 9 A As I said, right. 10 Q And the lower the dose, the lower the risk; fair? 11 A Of course. 12 Q Everyone is exposed to asbestos all the time from 13 the air around us; is that fair? 14 A Yes, so this is what we call background. It's - 15 Q And if it's all right with you, I'm just going to 1.4:23:5 1.4:23:5 1.4:23:5 1.4:23:5 1.4 :24 : C 1.4 :24 : C 1.4 :24 : C :.4 :24 :1 16 write that word up here, background. 17 A Background, right. So background means that it's :.4 :24 :1 18 what's in the ambient air. There are a few fibers 19 in the air as we walk around the city, and it's not 20 enough asbestos to cause disease. It's very, very 21 low, thousands of fiber per cubic centimeter. Very 22 low. 23 Q So you just said that it's not enough to cause 24 disease. Background, then, would be a safe level 1.4:24:3 25 of exposure? Page 504 1 A Well, in that sense, you know, the problem is that 1.4:24:4 2 there is no safe level above background. But if 3 you're below -- at background or below, there's no 4 evidence that it causes disease. 5 Q So background would be a safe level? 6 A It's hard to use the word safe because you don't 7 know if it's safe for everybody. I mean, there are 1.4:24:5 1.4:24:5 8 some cases where you don't know just what the 9 exposure is and the person gets a mesothelioma. 10 Maybe they were so highly susceptible, they got it 11 from the background. But I can't -- there's no 12 proof for that. 13 MS. MALIK: Just one second. 14 A If you're going to drag out something that says I L4:2 5 :1 1.4:25:2 15 said it was safe, then fine. It's as safe as you 16 can get it. 17 Q All right. Maybe I don't. So I'm going to write 18 safe level here. 19 And you have also said before that there - 20 you can get a billion asbestos fibers into a 21 thimble; right? 22 A True. 23 Q And so that's not a lot of fibers, is it, it's 24 really small? 1.4:25:3 1.4:25:5 1.4:25:5 1.4:25:5 25 A T h a t ' s r i gh t. T h a t ' s rig ht. 1.4 :2 6 : C Page 505 1 Q And those -- it's true, is it not, that all of us 1.4 :2 6 : C 2 generally accumulate billions of fibers in our 3 lungs just from the background air? 4 A Well, I don't think it's necessarily true that we :.4 :2 6 :1 5 all accumulate billions. There are some people 6 that have accumulated billions of fibers in their 7 lungs, but again, that's not a lot because, as you 8 pointed out, you can get a billion fibers into a 9 thimble. If you took my lungs and stretched them 10 out so they're not all crumbled up in my chest, the 11 surface area would cover this courtroom. We have a 12 huge surface area. So taking the thimblefuls and 13 sprinkling them around is not a lot. 14 Q Is not a lot. So I'm going to say that within the 1.4:26:4 15 background, there are billions of fibers; fair? 16 A Over time, yeah. I mean, it takes a lifetime. And 1.4:26:5 17 billions is high. It's more like millions with an 18 M that most people accumulate over time, not 19 billions. 20 Q I will put billions or millions. 21 A That's fine. That's over a lifetime. 22 Q Over a lifetime. 23 And another way to express a background level 1.4 :27 : C 1.4 :27 : C :.4 :27 :1 1.4:27:2 24 is in fibers per cc; is that right? 25 A Right. 1.4:27:2 Page 506 1 Q And a cc is a cubic centimeter? 2 A Correct. 3 Q That's about a size of a sugar cube? 4 A Correct. 5 Q And you said before that the background level of 6 asbestos can be as high as 0.001 fibers per cc? 7 A Right. That's correct. That's a thousandth of it 8 a fiber. What that means is -- if I could explain. 9 Q Of course. 10 A If you take a sugar cube, that's a cubic centimeter 11 of volume. Now, if you have .001 or a thousandth 1.4:27:2 1.4:27:2 1.4:27:2 1.4:27:3 1.4:27:3 1.4:27:4 1.4:27:4 1.4:27:4 12 of a fiber per cubic centimeter, that means in a 13 room like this, you'd need the volume of a thousand 14 sugar cubes or however many sugar cubes it would 15 take to fill that -- however volume you need to 16 put -- to fit a thousand sugar cubes to find a 17 single fiber, okay. So that's a very low number, 18 very low concentration of fibers. But that's high. 19 That's a high background. 20 Q Sure. And whether or not you say background is 21 this millions or billions over a lifetime - 22 A I'm sorry, I hate to interrupt you. 23 Q No, of course. 24 A But let's not confuse the billions and millions 1.4:28:3 1.4:28:3 1.4:28:3 1.4:28:4 25 with the .001. The billions and millions is what Page 507 1 you get over the lifetime of the person, 2 accumulating over time, okay, which at .001 I don't 3 know how long it would take to collect all those 4 fibers. I'm sorry I interrupted you. 5 Q That is fair enough. And this millions or billions 6 over a lifetime, you've said previously, is not 7 enough to cause mesothelioma; is that fair? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q And the high background level of 0.001 fibers per 10 cubic centimeter is also not enough to cause 1.4:28:5 1.4:29:0 1.4:29:0 11 mesothelioma? 12 A Correct. 13 Q Okay. So I'm going to just save a little space, 14 write enough to -- I'm going to abbreviate 14:29:1 14:29:1 15 mesothelioma as meso, because it's a really long 16 word. 17 So changing gears just a little bit, you 1.4:29:4 18 talked about animal studies when Mr. Greene was 19 speaking to you earlier. And you understand that 20 animal studies have produced mesotheliomas in 21 animals that have been exposed to asbestos? 22 A Sure. If you do the experiments, they're not easy 23 experiments to do. You have to expose a number of 24 animals over their lifespan to get a few cases. 14:30:0 25 Q A n d a w e l l - c o n d u c t e d a n i m a l s t u d y w o u l d b e 1 4 :3 0 : 1 Page 508 1 something that would be valuable to look at if 2 you're trying to determine what substances can 3 cause mesothelioma? 4 A They can be very helpful. 5 Q And you understand that those kinds of studies can 6 be done using talcum powder and applying that to 1.4:30:2 1.4:30:2 7 the animals? 8 A Well, they can, but they're unlikely to work in 9 producing mesotheliomas. 10 Q And that's fair, we can get to that in just a 11 second. 12 I'm going to show you now what's been 13 previously marked as Defense Exhibit No. 9471. I 1.4:30:3 1.4:30:3 1.4:30:4 14 have copies for everybody. 15 THE COURT: Thank you. And did the parties L4 :31: 1 16 stipulate to this exhibit? 17 MS. MALIK: This document has been stipulated L4 : 3 1 : 1 18 to. 19 THE COURT: Then the Court shows it admitted. L4 : 3 1 : 1 20 MS. MALIK: And permission to publish, Your :.4 :31:2 21 Honor. 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 BY MS. MALIK: 24 Q All right. You've seen this article before, :.4 :31:2 :.4 :3 1:2 :.4 :31:2 25 haven't you? Page 509 1A 2Q 3 Sure. And this is a study by Dr. Wagner? right? Did I say it :.4 :31:3 :.4 :31:3 4 A Wagner, yes. :.4 :31:3 5 Q And a number of other authors as well; right? :.4 :31:3 6 A That's right. :.4 :31:4 7 Q Including Dr. Pooley? 8 A That's right. :.4 :31:4 :.4 :31:4 9 Q And this was presented at the International :.4 :31:4 10 Symposium for the British Occupational Hygiene 11 Society, is that it? 12 A Right, exactly. So this is not a peer-reviewed :.4 :31:5 13 scientific paper. This is a presentation at a 14 conference that Dr. Wagner gave. 15 Q And you were actually at that conference, were you 1.4 :3 2 : C 16 not? 17 A Yes. People keep telling me I was. It was a long 1.4 :3 2 : C 18 time ago. I may very well have been there. I 19 don't deny I was there. But I can't prove I was 20 there either. 21 Q I wasn't there, so I can't either. :.4 :3 2 :1 22 A That's for sure. :.4 :3 2 :1 23 Q And you've heard of Dr. Pooley before, haven't you? :.4:32:1 24 A I've worked with Dr. Pooley, sure. :.4 :3 2 :1 25 Q And he's a well-respected scientist? 1.4:32:2 Page 510 1 A He's a mineralogist, that's correct. 2 Q And of course Dr. Wagner was a mentor of yours? 3 A He was, yeah. 4 Q So this study here is of animals exposed to three 5 different substances; is that right? 6 A Let's see, it's talc. I don't know if it's three 7 different substances. I thought it was talc and 8 asbestos. Italian talc, chrysotile, and then they 9 have a control of saline. On page 649, it shows 10 the -- what they were exposed to. 11 Q And if you look over on page 648, the first line of 12 that says, "This particular talc is referred to in 13 the talc trade as Italian," and then there's five 14 zeros, right? Do you see that? 15 A Yeah. 16 Q You're aware that that's the talc used in Johnson's 17 baby powder for a period of time? 18 A Well, I'd heard that, but I can't testify to that. 19 I don't know that. 20 Q But you've heard that before? 21 A Sure. 22 Q And it says in that second paragraph a little - 23 sort of middle way down, "No asbestos minerals of 24 either the tremolite or chrysotile varieties have 25 been detected in the many samples of this powder Page 511 1 examined." 2 You see that; right? 3 A That's what it says. 4 Q Then going over to the table that you were 5 mentioning on page 649, this study mentions that 1.4:33:4 1.4:33:5 1.4:33:5 6 there's these three substances, and in the fourth 7 column there, it says, "Number with mesothelioma." 8 Is that the number of animals that developed 9 mesothelioma in this experiment? 10 A Right. And that's what's called intrapleural 11 inoculation. In other words, the fibers were 1.4 :3 4 : C 34 :3 4 :1 12 injected directly into the pleural cavity right 13 onto the lung, bypassing all of the defenses, 14 and -- so go ahead. Do you have another question 15 about that? 16 Q So the first column there -- and I'm just writing 17 animal studies, and I'm going to put this study, 1.4:34:3 18 which is Wagner and Pooley. And we established 19 that that was Italian talc. 20 And could you tell the jury how many of these 1.4:34:5 21 animals developed mesothelioma when exposed to that 22 Italian talc? 23 A Well, it says zero, but you see there were only 18 24 of the animals with pure asbestos injected on it. 1.4:34:5 25 So I certainly wouldn't expect any from the talc, Page 512 1 which is -- which you'd like to say there's not a 2 lot of asbestos in there, so I wouldn't -- you 3 know, I don't know that you'd expect any, because 4 you get so few with the pure asbestos. Now, what 5 about inhaling it? I mean, that's in this paper 6 too. 7 Q And you did just mention the fact that the 8 chrysotile exposed animals got -- there were 18 of 1.4:35:2 9 them. 10 A Yeah, 18 out of 48 with a direct injection on 11 there. That means not very many. Less than half. 12 Q And the animals that were injected with that saline 13 control, they also got no mesotheliomas; fair? 14 A Of course. 15 Q There is also a study that you're familiar with, 16 another animal study conducted on Vermont talc. 1.4:35:3 1.4:35:5 1.4 :3 6 : C 14:36:1 17 Are you aware of that? 18 A Well, I don't know about that, but there's another 1.4:36:2 19 table in this paper that's very important. You 20 don't want to talk about that? 21 Q I'm sure your attorneys can talk about anything 22 they'd like to speak to you about. 23 A Okay, fine. 24 Q But you're aware that there's another study of 25 animals done on Vermont talc? You've seen that 1.4:36:2 1.4:36:3 1.4:36:3 Page 513 1 before? 2 A I'm not sure which one you're talking about. 3 Q All right. I'll show it to you. 4 MS. MALIK: This is what's been previously 5 marked as Defense Exhibit 9476. 6 THE COURT: And has this exhibit also been 7 stipulated to? 8 MS. MALIK: I believe it has. 9 MR. FINCH: Yes, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: All right, thank you. The Court 11 shows it admitted. 12 MS. WEGLARZ: And Your Honor, just for the 13 record, I haven't seen these, so I haven't 14 stipulated to them. But if there's an objection, 1.4:36:3 1.4:36:3 1.4:39:5 1.4 :3 7 : C 1.4 :3 7 : C 1.4 :3 7 : C 1.4 :3 7 : C :.4 :37 :1 15 I'll make it as -- in due course. But no objection 16 right now. 17 THE COURT: All right, thank you. 18 And as to Kerr? 19 MR. DRUMKE: No objection, Your Honor. 20 THE COURT: All right, thank you. 21 BY MS. MALIK: 22 Q You've seen this study before, haven't you, Doctor? 23 A I certainly have. 24 Q And this is also an animal study. This is an 25 inhalation study; correct? 1.4:37:2 1.4:37:2 1.4:37:2 1.4:37:2 1.4:37:2 1.4:37:2 1.4:37:2 1.4:37:3 Page 514 1 A That is right. 2 Q So if you go to the second page of this study, in 3 that second column, there is a paragraph with the 4 italicized words "talc powder." And that says, 1.4:37:3 1.4:37:3 5 "The talc aerosol was generated from Johnson's baby 6 powder, Lot 228P, provided by Johnson & Johnson." 7 Do you see that? 8 A Right. 9 Q So just like the study that we've just looked at by 10 Dr. Wagner, the authors of this study follow these 1.4 :3 8 : C 1.4 :3 8 : C 1.4 :3 8 : C 11 animals to see whether any of the ones exposed to 12 this Vermont talc developed mesothelioma; right? 13 A Right. 14 Q And none of the animals exposed to this talc 15 developed any mesotheliomas? 16 A Right. And we shouldn't be surprised, right, 17 because it's 228P. It's been prescreened to make :.4 :3 8 :1 :.4 :3 8 :1 1.4:38:2 18 sure it had no asbestos in it, so why would we be 19 surprised? 20 Q Let's talk about that actually. So hang on, just 21 to keep us oriented. This is a study by Wagner. 1.4:38:3 22 This is Vermont talc. I'm going to show you now - 23 now, we won't put it up on the screen yet because I 24 want to make sure that you have, in fact, seen it 25 before. This is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 829. Here, Page 515 1 and a copy for Your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Mine's not marked. Is yours? 3 COURT REPORTER: No. 4 THE COURT: Oh, okay. And is there any 5 objection to this? 6 MR. GREENE: No, Your Honor. 7 MR. DRUMKE: No, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: And are you moving to admit it as 9 well? 10 MS. MALIK: If there is no objection, I would 11 like to. 12 THE COURT: The Court shows 829 admitted, 13 plaintiffs'. 14 BY MS. MALIK: 15 Q You've seen this document before, haven't you, 16 Doctor? 17 A I have, yes. 18 Q Is this the document that you're relying on for 19 your statement that this talc lot 228P was 1.4:39:3 1.4:39:4 1.4:39:4 1.4:39:4 1.4:39:4 1.4:39:5 1.4:39:5 1.4:39:5 1.4:39:5 1.4:39:5 1.4 :40 : C 1.4 :40 : C 20 prescreened? 21 A Yes. 22 Q And this document says here in the third paragraph, 23 "Within the detection limits of x-ray" - 24 A Goniometer. 25 Q -- "goniometer" -- thank you -- "scanning and x-ray 1.4 :40 : C 1.4 :40 : C :.4 :40 :1 :.4 :40 :1 Page 516 1 powder camera analysis methods, no amphibole or 2 serpentine phases could be detected." 3 Did I read that right? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And when you say that this talc lot was 1.4:40:2 1.4:40:2 1.4:40:2 6 prescreened, is it that testing that you're 7 8 A referring to? Well, I think so. I mean, that's what the note on 1.4:40:4 9 the back says. 10 Q And the note on the back, just so we can take a 11 look at what you're referring to, is from Bill 1.4:40:4 12 Ashton to Mr. Shelley. And it says, "It is the lot 13 of 1,000 cans set aside for everybody to do 14 everything on it." 15 A Correct. 16 Q And so the prescreening that you mentioned earlier 17 was this x-ray diffraction testing that's 14:41:0 14:41:0 18 referenced in this letter; correct? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q And you've stated previously that if a talc sample 21 was tested in this fashion and was shown not to 14:41:1 14:41:2 22 have any asbestos, that you wouldn't expect it to 23 be capable of causing mesothelioma? 24 A Well, it depends on how much asbestos. 25 it has I mean, if 14:41:3 Page 517 1 Q But I think my question is a little different, sir. :.4:41:3 2 A Okay. :.4 :41:3 3 Q If a talc sample was, as you say, prescreened using 4 this method described here, and it showed to not :.4 :41:3 5 have any asbestos in it by this method, then you 6 would not expect that talc to be capable of causing 7 mesothelioma? 8 A Correct, that's correct. 9 Q But you're not aware of whether Johnson & Johnson 10 tested its talc by this method, are you? 11 A I don't know. 12 Q We can set that aside. 13 I want to go back to some of the animal 14 studies that you've conducted. You have done 14 : 4 1 : 5 14:41:5 14 :42 :C 14 :42 :C 14 :42:1 15 animal studies where you exposed some rats and 16 mice, I believe, to chrysotile asbestos? 17 A Chrysotile, crocidolite, amosite, yes. 18 Q And when you were performing those studies, you 14 :42 :2 14 :42 :2 19 tested the chrysotile asbestos to see if it had any 20 contaminants in it; is that right? 21 A Sure. 22 Q And you found some tremolite asbestos when you 23 tested it? 24 A We did. 25 Q And the amount of tremolite asbestos that you found 14 :42 :3 14 :42 :3 14 :42 :4 14 :42 :4 Page 518 1 was less than 1 percent; is that right? 2 A True. 3 Q And you did not report that in your published paper 4 about these studies; correct? 5 A No. I mean, there are a few other kinds of fibers 6 too, but they're not significant. In the face of 7 trillions of pure asbestos fibers, 1 percent of 8 anything else really isn't going to matter. 9 Q I'm just going to write tremolite asbestos. 10 And that less than 1 percent level you 11 wouldn't expect to be capable of causing 12 mesothelioma? 13 A In the face of pure asbestos, that's correct. 14 Q So I'm just going to write less than 1 percent 1.4:42:4 1.4:42:4 1.4:42:5 1.4:43:2 1.4:43:3 1.4:43:3 1.4:43:4 15 would not cause meso. 16 Moving away from animal studies, there are 17 also studies that can be done in populations of 1.4 :44 : C 18 people; correct? 19 A Sure, by epidemiologists, right. 20 Q And epidemiology is the best way to establish 21 causation of diseases in human populations? 22 A Correct. 23 Q And you've described it as the gold standard for 24 causation in human populations? 25 A Sure. 34 :44 :1 34 :44 :1 1.4:44:2 1.4:44:2 1.4:44:2 Page 519 1 Q To study whether talcum powder causes mesothelioma, 1.4:44:2 2 you would want to look at people who were the most 3 exposed to that powder; right? 4 A I agree. 5 Q And you would agree that the people who are the 6 most exposed to cosmetic talc are the people who 1.4:44:3 1.4:44:3 7 work in the mines and mills; true? 8 A Well, I would think so, but you'd need to talk to 1.4:44:4 9 an epidemiologist about studies like that, whom 10 they would want to study, yeah. 11 Q That's fair. But it's common sense that talc 12 miners and millers have a higher dose than people 1.4:44:5 13 who use baby powder for some sort of - 14 A I would think so, but you need to know how they 15 were exposed, what kind of precautions were taken 1.4 :4 5 : C 16 for their exposure, sure. 17 Q And you're aware that there have been 18 epidemiological studies of cosmetic talc miners and 34:4 5 :1 19 millers in Italy, France, Norway, Austria, and 20 Vermont; correct? 21 A That's what I understand, but you'd need to ask an 22 epidemiologist about those studies. 23 Q Sure. But you are aware that there's -- none of 24 those studies have shown any increased risk of 1.4:45:2 1.4:45:2 25 mesothelioma in any of those workers? Page 520 1 A That's what I understand. 2 Q And you mentioned with Mr. Greene the word 3 asbestiform, I think; right? 4 A Yep. 5 Q You are not a mineralogist; correct? 6 A True. 7 Q But you're aware that there are asbestiform and 8 nonasbestiform varieties of amphibole minerals; 1.4:45:3 1.4:45:4 1.4:45:4 1.4:45:4 1.4:45:5 1.4:45:5 9 right? 10 A That's right. 11 Q And it's your opinion that regardless of which one 12 of those it is, whether it's asbestiform or 1.4 :4 6 : C 1.4 :4 6 : C 13 nonasbestiform, if it's three times longer than it 14 is wide, it has parallel sides, it can cause 15 disease; is that fair? 16 A It wouldn't be nonasbestiform, then. If it's a 17 fiber and it has the mineral content of asbestos, 1.4:46:2 18 then it can cause disease. 19 Q Right. And I understand. And we'll talk to a 20 mineralogist about those distinctions. 21 A You don't need to talk to a mineralogist about 22 those distinctions. I can explain that. If it's a 1.4:46:3 1.4:46:3 23 fiber, if it's a biopersistent fiber, it can cause 24 disease. And if it has the mineral elemental 25 content of asbestos, it's asbestiform. If it Page 521 1 doesn't, if it's not a fiber, then you wouldn't 2 call it asbestiform. 3 Q And you are familiar with the term called cleavage 4 fragment; is that right? 5 A Sure. 6 Q Can you tell the jury what that is? 7 A Well, this is when a material has a structure 8 cleaved off of it, some of them may be fibers. The 1.4:46:5 1.4 :47 : C 1.4 :47 : C 1.4 :47 : C 9 cleavage fragments may have a fiber form and can 10 cause disease if they're inhaled. 11 Q And you've heard of Dr. Victor Roggli; right? 12 A Of course. 13 Q I think co-counsel might have some of his books on 14 the table there. 15 A And I might be an author on one of them as well. 16 Q All right. Some of your books. And he's a 17 pathologist like you; right? 18 A Well, he's a medical doctor, obviously. But yes, 19 we have interests in lung pathology, yes. 20 Q And you publish articles together? 21 A I have, several. 22 Q And I'm going to show you this. We won't publish 1.4:47:2 1.4:47:2 1.4:47:2 1.4:47:2 1.4:47:3 1.4:47:3 1.4:47:4 1.4:47:4 1.4:47:4 23 it yet. This has been marked for identification as 24 Defense Exhibit 10037. Dr. Brody, you're familiar 25 with this article; correct? Page 522 1 A Yes, I am. 2 Q And you've testified about this article previously? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And you stated before that both you and Dr. Roggli 5 published on the area of asbestos minerals? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And their capacity to cause diseases? 8 A That's right. 9 MS. MALIK: And so Your Honor, I would like to 10 publish this to the jury. 11 THE COURT: So are you asking that it first be 12 admitted or has it been stipulated to? 13 MS. MALIK: It has not been stipulated to. 14 MR. FINCH: It's not admissible. It's just 15 for cross-examination purposes. 16 MS. MALIK: So the jury can follow along. 17 THE COURT: And is there any objection? 18 MR. FINCH: No, not to that. 19 THE COURT: All right. Then you may show it 20 to the jury. 21 BY MS. MALIK: 22 Q All right. If we could just pull up the title of 23 this just to orient us. This is, as we said, by 24 Dr. Victor Roggli. 25 A Right. 1.4:48:2 1.4:48:3 1.4:48:3 1.4:48:3 1.4:48:3 1.4:48:3 1.4:48:4 1.4:48:4 1.4:48:4 1.4:48:5 1.4:48:5 1.4 :49 : C 1.4 :49 : C 1.4 :49 : C 1.4 :49 : C 1.4 :49 : C 1.4 :49 : C :.4 :49:1 Page 523 1 Q And it's called "Measuring EMPs in the lung what :.4 :49:1 2 can be measured in the lung: Asbestiform minerals 3 and cleavage fragments"; right? 4 A Right. 5 Q It's in a journal called Toxicology and Applied 1.4:49:2 1.4:49:2 6 Pharmacology; right? 7 A Yes. 8 Q You're a peer reviewer on that journal; correct? 9 A I have reviewed papers for this journal. 10 Q And if we turn over to -- actually, just on this 11 first page in that second column, first full 12 paragraph here, Dr. Roggli says, "In addition, the 1.4:49:2 1.4:49:2 1.4:49:3 1.4:49:3 13 asbestos minerals also occur in a nonfibrous habit. 14 And these can fragment into cleavage fragments that 15 meet the criteria for a fiber, i.e., an aspect 16 ratio of at least three to one and roughly parallel 17 sides. Cleavage fragments of nonasbestiform 18 minerals have not been associated with 19 asbestos-induced diseases." 20 Do you see that? 21 A Right. Nonasbestiform minerals, right. 22 Q Okay. And you mentioned when you were speaking to 23 the jury earlier that asbestos to cause disease has 24 to be able to persist in the lungs? :.4 :50 :1 :.4 :50 :1 :.4 :50 :1 25 A B i o p e r s i s t e n c e , rig ht. 1.4 :50 :3 Page 524 1 Q And so I want to just make this the last point that 1.4 :50 :3 2 I'll ask you about, which is we can call it 3 properties of asbestos, is that -- is 4 biopersistence the property of asbestos? 5 A That's right. 1.4 : 5 0 :4 6 Q So for any fiber to be capable of causing disease, 7 it has to be biopersistent. Let's see if I spelled 1.4 : 5 0 :5 8 it right. 9 What is biopersistence? 10 A Well, that means it stays in the lung for extended 11 periods of time for all of the asbestos varieties, 12 and that means through the life of the individual. :.4 :51:1 :.4 :51:1 13 So that's what that means. 14 Q And you also mentioned that another property of O4 :51:2 15 asbestos is that it binds to DNA and creates those 16 reactive oxygen species that you were talking 17 about; right? 18 A That's right. 19 Q And that's because asbestos has particular surface 20 characteristics; is that fair? 21 A True. 22 Q And you can't tell us as you sit here today what 23 the biopersistence of nonasbestiform amphiboles is? 24 A I'm not sure. 25 Q A n d y o u c a n ' t t e l l u s l i k e w i s e w h a t t h e s u r f a c e 14:51:3 14:51:3 14:51:4 14:52:0 14:52:0 1 4 : 52:0 Page 525 1 characteristics of nonasbestiform amphiboles are? 2 A I haven't studied that. I don't know. 3 Q We've been talking and you've talked with me now 4 for a couple hours almost, right? 5 A Well, it's now a couple hours. 6 Q Do you charge an hourly rate for your testimony? 7 A Yes. 8 Q What is that rate? 9 A $625 per hour. 10 Q And over the course of your testifying career, 11 you've earned almost $5 million testifying? 12 A Yes. 13 MS. MALIK: I don't have any further questions 14 at this time, but someone else may. Thank you :.4 :52 :1 1.4:52:2 1.4:52:2 1.4:52:3 1.4:52:3 1.4:52:3 1.4:52:3 1.4:52:3 1.4:52:4 1.4:52:4 15 Dr. Brody. 16 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 1.4:52:5 17 THE COURT: And are you going to take the 1.4:52:5 18 chart with you or leave it up here? 19 MS. MALIK: I am happy to -- I will move it so 1.4:52:5 20 it's not in anybody's way. 21 THE COURT: Thank you. 1.4 :53 : C 22 Ms. Weglarz. 1.4:53:2 23 MS. WEGLARZ: Thank you, Your Honor. 1.4:53:2 24 25 Page 526 1 CROSS-EXAMINATION 2 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 3 Q Hello, Dr. Brody. 4 A Hi. 5 Q I just have a few more questions. I'm not going to 1.4:53:2 1.4:53:2 1.4:53:2 1.4:53:3 1.4:53:3 6 cover anything that was just covered hopefully. 7 Just to make clear, Dr. Brody, you're not the 1.4:53:3 8 kind of medical doctor that diagnoses disease; is 9 that right? 10 A I'm not a medical doctor. I'm still a Ph.D. 11 Q Right. 12 A That's right. 13 Q So you don't treat patients, that sort of thing? 14 A Of course not. Of course not. 15 Q And you've never spoken to Ms. Lewis or to any of 16 her family members; is that right? 17 A No. This wouldn't change or influence my testimony 18 in any way. 19 Q But you agree with me; right? 20 A Of course. 21 Q And before -- we had the chance to take your 22 deposition and get your opinions in this case; is 1.4:53:4 1.4:53:4 1.4:53:4 1.4:53:4 1.4:53:5 1.4:53:5 1.4:53:5 1.4 :54 : C 1.4 :54 : C 1.4 :54 : C 23 that right? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And before that deposition, you had done no work on 1.4 :54 : C :.4 :54 :1 Page 527 1 this case; is that right? 2 A Right. 3 Q And you spoke to Mr. Greene before your deposition 4 and he gave you a hypothetical about talc; is that :.4 :54 :1 :.4 :54 :1 5 right? 6 A I think so. 7 Q He didn't give you any other information about 8 products; is that right? 9 MR. GREENE: Just, Your Honor, may I object. 10 My hypothetical was about asbestos. It wasn't 1.4:54:2 1.4:54:2 1.4:54:3 11 specific to talc. 12 THE COURT: And do you have a response? 13 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 14 Q Did he give you a hypothetical about talc products? 15 A You know, we'd have to look at what it was. I 1.4:54:3 1.4:54:3 1.4:54:3 1.4:54:4 16 don't remember specifically what the hypothetical 17 was. It's probably, as Mr. Greene says, related to 18 asbestos, since that's all I talked about today. 19 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, my hypothetical was 1.4 :55 : C 20 about asbestos exposure, not specific to talc. 21 MS. WEGLARZ: I'm going to pass the transcript 1.4 :55 : C 22 around just so we can read it. Here you go. 23 MR. GREENE: Are you talking about his :.4 :55 :1 24 deposition or today? 25 MS. WEGLARZ: At the deposition. :.4 :55 :1 Page 528 1 MR. GREENE: Okay, I apologize. I thought you 14 :55 :1 2 were talking about today. Okay. 3 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 4 Q Do you want to see your deposition? 5 A Only if I have to. 6 Q It's page 5. It'll make it go easier. 7 MS. WEGLARZ: Do you want a copy? 8 MS. MALIK: Sure. 9 A Where are we? 10 MR. GREENE: I apologize, which page? 11 MS. WEGLARZ: Page 5. 12 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 13 Q I'll just let you review that and then we can go 14 back to the questioning. 15 Let's see here, around line 6 through 15. Let 14 :55 :1 14 :55 :1 1.4 :55 :2 1.4 :55 :2 1.4 :55 :2 1.4 :55 :2 1.4 :55 :3 1.4 :55 :3 1.4 :55 :3 1.4 :55 :3 1.4 :55 :4 1.4 :55 :4 16 me know when you've had a chance to look at that. 17 A Okay. 18 Q So you were asked to assume a hypothetical about 19 talc; right? 20 A I was asked to assume that Ms. Lewis has been 21 diagnosed with a pleural mesothelioma. She was a 14 :56 :1 14 :56 :1 1.4 :56 :2 22 long-term decades user of a talc product. That's 23 what this says. 24 Q Right. Were you asked to assume anything else, 25 anything about Delco? 1.4 :56 :3 Page 529 1 A Not that I recall. 2 Q Any other - 3 A I'm sorry. If it's not in here, obviously no. 4 Q So nothing else other than the talc; right? 5 A I believe that's correct. 6 Q And you haven't read Ms. Lewis' deposition 7 testimony; is that correct? 8 A Correct. 9 Q And I just asked you about Delco, but you have no 10 idea about any of her work at Delco; right? 11 A You are right. 12 Q Before you -- you've seen this slide before; 13 correct? 14 A Sure. 15 MS. WEGLARZ: And Your Honor, I am, just for 16 illustrative purposes, publishing the slide that 1.4 :56 :4 1.4 :56 :4 1.4 :56 :4 1.4 :56 :4 1.4 :56 :4 1.4 :56 :5 1.4 :56 :5 1.4 :56 :5 1.4 :57 : C :.4 :57 :1 :.4 :57 :1 :.4 :57 :1 17 Dr. Brody is familiar with. And I believe counsel 18 is familiar with it too. 19 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 20 Q There's a number of things that have to occur 21 before a person is what we call exposed to 1.4 :57 :2 1.4 :57 :2 22 asbestos; is that right? 23 A Right. 24 Q And again, you've seen this slide before? 25 A Sure. It's a fine slide. 1.4 :57 :3 1.4 :57 :3 1.4 :57 :3 Page 530 1 Q And you agree that all of these nine steps on this 1.4 :57 :4 2 slide are required before we call a person exposed 3 to asbestos; is that right? 4 A Well, when you get down, you know, fibers cause 1.4 :57 :5 5 disease, the exposure part goes up to worker 6 breathes fibers. And that's the exposure. 7 Q And the fibers that we're concerned about with the 1.4 :58 : C 8 exposure are the ones that actually get into the 9 lungs; is that right? 10 A Well, yeah, it says he's breathing the fibers, so 1.4 :58 : C 11 obviously they're going in and out of the lungs, 12 yeah. 13 Q And let's start with the first step. Obviously the :.4 :58 :1 14 product has to contain asbestos; right? 15 A Right. 16 Q And you're not here to tell this jury about whether 1.4 :58 :2 1.4 :58 :2 17 or not any of the products in this -- that are at 18 issue in this case contained asbestos; is that 19 right? 20 A Well, I've seen evidence that talc contains 1.4 :58 :2 21 asbestos, but any of the other products I know 22 nothing about. 23 Q And you're not here to tell the jury how -- if the 1.4 :58 :3 24 products really -- if the products did contain 25 asbestos, how that asbestos is released into the Page 531 1 air from the products? 2 A The technical details of how it might be released, 1.4 :58 :4 3 you're right. 4 Q And you're not here to say if and how the fibers, 1.4 : 5 8 :5 5 if they're released, become airborne; is that 6 right? 7 A I think if asbestos is released into the 8 environment where it's floating in the air, it's 1.4 : 5 8 :5 9 available for inhalation. You don't have to be a 10 scientist to even know that. 11 Q But you're not here to talk about the aerodynamics 12 and that sort of thing? 13 A Well, yeah, but I could. 14 Q Right, right. Let's go on. And you're not here to 15 say whether or not any individual particles are the :.4 :59:1 :.4 :59:1 :.4 :59:1 16 right size or the right dynamics to actually get 17 into the breathing zone; correct? 18 A Well, if it's asbestos, it certainly has all of 1.4 :59:3 19 those features which would allow it to get deep 20 into the lung. 21 Q Sometimes particles can be too big and they can't 1.4 :59:3 22 actually get into the nose and past the defense 23 mechanisms; correct? 24 A That's true, sometimes, yeah. 1. 4 : 59: 4 25 Q And you said this before, we all have some kind of 1.4 : 59: 4 Page 532 1 background level of asbestos in our lungs. 2 A That's right. 1.4 :59:5 3 Q The average person does not get mesothelioma, no 4 matter how much asbestos they breathe? 5 A Does that sound familiar? Yes, I said that to the 6 jury. Of course. 7 Q And although asbestos is the only known 8 environmental cause of mesothelioma, you'll agree, 1.4 :59:5 1.5 :00 : C 1.5:00:0 9 it's not the only cause of mesothelioma? 10 A Well, it's the only environmental cause. I mean, 11 you can get a few cases from high energy radiation :.5 :00 :1 12 to the chest wall. There are a few cases from 13 inflammation, but, I mean, that's really the only 14 environmental cause. 15 Q Right, but that doesn't mean it's the only cause. 1.5 :00 :3 16 Like you just said, radiation can cause 17 mesothelioma? 18 A Well, what I said was high energy culminated 1.5 :00 :3 19 radiation directed to the chest wall, not just 20 radiation. 21 Q Right. It's a specific kind of radiation? 1.5 :00 :4 22 A That's right. 1.5 :00 :5 23 Q A very specific kind? 24 A That's right. 1.5 :00 :5 1.5 :00 :5 25 Q Inflammation, specific inflammation can cause it? 1.5 :00 :5 Page 533 1 A I said that, that's right. 2 Q And - 3 A Very few -- I'm sorry, very few cases. 4 Q And there are even some mesotheliomas that just 5 happen spontaneously? 6 A That can happen, but if there's an established 7 asbestos exposure, it's a waste of time to be .5:00:5 .5:00:5 .5:00:5 .5:01:0 15:01:0 8 talking about spontaneous mesothelioma. 9 Q And when we talk about spontaneous mesothelioma, 10 that means it just happens; right? 11 A Well, it happens because we accumulate genetic 12 errors naturally over time. We all do. But very .5:01:1 .5:01:1 13 few people get any kind of cancer from that 14 mechanism. 15 Q But it happens sometimes? 16 A It does happen, right. 17 Q And in addition to asbestos, there's other kinds of 18 fibers that can cause mesothelioma; is that right? 19 A Oh, sure. 20 Q Erionite can cause mesothelioma? 21 MR. GREENE: Objection, Your Honor. There's 22 no evidence of any of that in this case and we had .5:01:3 .5:01:3 .5:01:3 .5:01:3 .5:01:4 .5:01:4 23 a pretrial motion on this. 24 THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection. 25 MR. GREENE: Thank you. .5:01:4 .5:01:5 Page 534 1 MS. WEGLARZ: Okay. I'll move on. .5:01:5 2 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 3 Q Two more questions. They're easy ones. 4 familiar with the term friable? You're .5:01:5 .5:01:5 5 A Sure. 6 Q What does friable mean? 7 A Well, it means that a material -- if a material is 8 friable, it comes apart easily and you can crumble .5:01:5 .5:01:5 .5:02:0 9 it in your hand, basically. 10 Q It means basically you can use your own hand 11 pressure and pulverize something to dust in your .5:02:0 12 hand; correct? 13 A I just said that, yes, absolutely right. 14 MS. WEGLARZ: Right. You probably said it .5:02:1 .5:02:1 15 better too. 16 Thank you, Dr. Brody. I have no further 15:02:1 17 questions. 18 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. .5:02:2 19 MS. WEGLARZ: I'll pass the witness. .5:02:2 20 THE COURT: Thank you. .5:02:2 21 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, I have just a handful . 5 : 0 2 : 2 22 of follow-up, if I may. 23 MR. DRUMKE: No questions. 24 THE COURT: You have no questions for 25 Dr. Brody? .5:02:3 .5:02:3 Page 535 1 MR. DRUMKE: No questions. 2 THE COURT: All right, then, Counsel, you may 3 redirect. 4 MR. GREENE: Thank you, Your Honor. 5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. GREENE: 7 Q Hello again, Dr. Brody. I have just some follow-up 8 on some of the questions that you were just asked. 9 First of all, you've been asked about 10 background. Do you recall those questions? 11 A Yes. 12 Q If someone is exposed to asbestos from a product 13 and fibers become friable, is it fair to describe 14 that as background? 15 A No, that wouldn't be background. That would be in 16 addition to background. 17 Q And you were asked some questions about fibers and 18 volume of fibers. Are you familiar with what's 19 known as a fiber per cc quantification? 20 A Sure. We talked about that, yeah. 21 Q If someone is exposed to one fiber per cc over the 22 course of a day, wouldn't that amount to millions 23 of fibers? 24 A Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a very high 25 concentration, actually. That's significantly -- Page 536 1 that's orders -- several orders of magnitude above 2 background, sure. 3 Q Is that because when we're talking about one fiber 4 per cc, is a cc a squared centimeter? 5 A That's right. That's the sugar cube size, one 6 cubic centimeter, that's right. 7 Q So if you're breathing in one fiber per cc, you're 8 not just breathing in one fiber; is that correct? 9 A No. Everybody time you take a breath, you're 10 inhaling thousands of cubic centimeters through the 11 day. So you're -- so every time, if there's a 12 fiber per cubic centimeter, that's going to be 13 thousands, many thousands of fibers over the day 14 easily. 15 Q Would that -- could that amount to millions of 16 fibers over the day? 17 A That's correct. That's the industrial hygienists 18 who actually figure out the actual numbers of those 19 things. 20 Q And we're going to hear from hopefully an 21 industrial hygienist later on, but I just wanted to 22 follow up on some of those questions. 23 In regards to what I asked you to assume at 24 your deposition, did I ask you to come here today 25 to offer an opinion on any particular product? Page 537 1 A No. 2 Q Did I ask you to come here today to offer any 3 opinion specific to Mrs. Lewis? 4 A No. But you can be sure that this is our 5 scientific understanding of what happened to 6 Mrs. Lewis. There's no reason to think that what 7 happened in her lungs is any different than what's 8 happened to anybody who develops the disease 9 mesothelioma. 10 Q Now, counsel for Johnson & Johnson started off 11 asking you about in-place asbestos products. Do 12 you recall those questions? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Is asbestos only hazardous if it's friable? 15 A Well, it's hazardous only if it gets aerosolized. 16 Q Fair enough. 17 A Now, it doesn't necessarily have to be friable, 18 which means break up in your hand. There are 19 different degrees of availability to -- or 20 different degrees through which that can be 21 released. Some of it's tough to get out of a 22 product and some of it would be very easy. 23 Q Now, you were also asked some questions about some 24 of the many rat studies performed with talc and 25 asbestos. Do you recall those questions? Page 538 1 A Yes. 2 Q And you touched on this earlier when I was asking 3 you questions. Didn't you say that not every rat 4 that you exposed to asbestos develops disease? 5 A Well, I -- talking about mesothelioma, it's like in 6 people, only a few of the animals at the end of 7 their lifespan get the disease mesothelioma. So 8 they're hard experiments to do. They're very 9 expensive. They take the lifetime of the animal. 10 And that's been done. There are a number of 11 examples of scientists who have done those 12 experiments. I didn't need to. 13 Q Now, you were also asked some questions about 14 miners. Do you recall those questions? 15 A Yes. 16 Q If one miner out of 392 gets mesothelioma, wouldn't 17 that be a sign of an increased risk of disease? 18 A Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sure an epidemiologist can 19 explain this better, but one in 400 people, that's 20 a high rate, actually. I mean, there are only 21 3,000 cases in this whole country of billions of 22 people. 23 Q Now, I know you said this earlier, but I just want 24 to -- I know you said this earlier, but I just want 25 to clarify. Among the asbestos fibers, all of them Page 539 1 are capable of causing disease; is that correct? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q And does that include chrysotile? 4 A Oh, sure. 5 Q Doctor, you were also shown a document that's 6 Defendants' Exhibit 9471, this inhaled particles 7 document. Do you have that in front of you? 8 A I do, yes. 9 Q Good. Could you grab that for me, please. 10 A Yeah. 11 Q Doctor, do you know what tremolite is? 12 A Sure. 13 Q What's tremolite? 14 A So it's a kind of amphibole asbestos. I told you, - 5:06:4 - 5:06:4 - 5:06:5 - 5:06:5 - 5:07:0 - 5:07:0 - 5:07:0 - 5:07:0 - 5:07:1 - 5:07:1 - 5:07:1 15 remember, the chrysotile is in the serpentine 16 group, then there's the amphibole group that has 17 five varieties of asbestos. Tremolite is one of 18 those. 19 Q Now, could you turn to page 648 in that document 20 for me. 21 A Okay. 22 Q Right in the middle of that document, you see in 23 the middle of the second paragraph that starts, "A 24 mineralogical study ..." It reads, "A -1 5 : 0 7 : 2 - 5:07:3 - 5:07:3 25 mineralogical study of talc mine itself showed Page 540 1 tremolite can be found in isolated sections of the 2 mine but this cannot be traced into the final 3 product." 4 What does that tell you? 5 A Well, in other words, there's tremolite has been 6 shown to be in there, this mineral, but when they 7 looked at the final product, they didn't find the 8 tremolite. That's what that means to me. 9 Q But is tremolite a carcinogenic fiber? 10 A No question. 11 Q And can tremolite cause mesothelioma? 12 A Oh, yes. That's been shown. There are populations 13 who have been exposed to tremolite who have 14 mesothelioma. 15 Q Does this say that tremolite was found in the talc 16 mine? 17 A That's what it says. 18 Q Doctor, when you were being asked questions by 19 Johnson & Johnson, you mentioned the table that's 20 on page 650. Could you turn to that for me. 21 A All right. 22 Q What were you going to say about the table when you 23 took a look at that? 24 A Well, this is the result of the inhalation 25 experiment. So down at the bottom, you can see Page 541 1 that they were looking at different kinds of 2 tumors. They didn't even look at mesotheliomas, 3 but obviously they didn't find any or they would 4 have reported them. But the Italian talc, even the 5 superfine chrysotile, after 12 months of exposure, 6 they only found one case of adenocarcinomas, 7 apparently no mesotheliomas. 8 So the bottom line is they really don't -- you . 5 : 0 9 : 1 9 can't say anything about whether or not talc -- if 10 the high concentrations of pure asbestos don't 11 cause mesothelioma, then you can't say anything 12 about anything else. And that's one of the 13 problems with looking at these kinds of studies. 14 And this wasn't a peer-reviewed paper and I'm not 15 surprised. 16 Q Now, Doctor, the last question I wanted to ask you 17 is you were also shown a document that's Exhibit 15:09:4 18 No. DX-9476, "Inhalation of talc baby powder by 19 hamsters." 20 Do you have that in front of you? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Do you -- have you seen that study before? 23 A Sure. 24 Q Do you have an understanding of how the talc in 25 that study was prescreened? .5:10:0 .5:10:0 .5:10:0 .5:10:0 .5:10:0 Page 542 1 A Well, that's the document that the young lady 2 showed me, the attorney showed me earlier, where :.5 :10: 1 3 she pulled this out and asked me if I had seen 4 this. I said yes. And they're looking at some 5 analysis, x-ray diffraction on sample 228P. Now, 6 228P is the asbestos identified in this paper you 7 showed me. 8 MS. MALIK: Objection, Your Honor. Misstates 5 :10 :3 9 the document. It's talc, not asbestos. 10 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, the document speaks 11 for itself. 12 MS. MALIK: It does not say that. 13 THE COURT: So where does the document say 14 asbestos? 15 MR. BICKS: He misspoke. 16 BY MR. GREENE: 17 Q Could you tell us what the document says, Doctor? 18 A I misspoke. What did I say? 19 THE COURT: Thank you. 20 Q Why don't we just start over. 21 THE COURT: The Court sustains your objection. 22 A All right. So the hamsters were exposed to baby 23 powder, talc. And the exhibit, the plaintiffs' 15:10:4 15:10:4 15:10:4 15:10:5 15:10:5 15:10:5 15:10:5 15:10:5 15:10:5 15:11:0 15:11:0 24 exhibit that was shown to me, is related to 25 identification of talc. And they used x-ray Page 543 1 diffraction looking for asbestos, and it says they 2 didn't find any in this 228P, which is the lot that 3 was used in the inhalation studies with the 4 hamsters. And they didn't find anything, and I'm 5 not surprised because it was prescreened and 6 they -- the note on the back said, "This lot of 7 thousand cans is set aside for everybody to do 8 everything on." 9 Now, it's good that they could prescreen talc 5 :11:4 10 and find no asbestos in it, fine. But then they 11 went ahead and used it in the animal experiments 12 and didn't find any tumors. Well, of course not. 13 Q Doctor, can I also turn your attention in 14 Exhibit 9476, the "Inhalation of talc baby powder 15:11:5 15 by hamsters" study. Can you turn to the last page, 16 page -- well, I guess it's second-to-last page, 17 page 11 of 12. 18 A Okay. 19 Q And there's a series of footnotes at the end of the 20 document. And do you see in the left column at the 21 top of page 11 of 12, or 128, where it says, "The 15:12:1 15:12:1 22 most plausible ..." 23 Do you see that? 24 A The most plausible explanation, yes. 15:12:2 15:12:2 25 Q A n d d o e s t h a t say, "The m o s t p l a u s i b l e e x p l a n a t i o n 15:12:2 Page 544 1 for the absence of talc-induced lesions in our 2 hamsters appears to lie in the nature of the talc. 3 It was cosmetic grade talc in which no asbestos 4 fibers were found." 5 Did I read that correctly? 6 A Yeah, no kidding. 7 Q And is that what you're talking about it being 8 prescreened? 9 A Yeah, sure. They were not found. These were the 10 lots that were prescreened and found to not have 11 asbestos. 12 MR. GREENE: Thank you, Doctor. Those are all 13 the questions I have. 14 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 15 MS. MALIK: Just a couple of questions on 16 follow-up. 17 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 18 BY MS. MALIK: 19 Q Mr. Greene just asked you if exposures that a 20 person might get from products would be in addition 21 to background. 22 Do you recall that? 23 A Right. 24 Q But you would agree that if someone's cumulative 25 exposure stays below -- at or below background, Page 545 1 that wouldn't be capable of causing mesothelioma? 2 A I agree. 3 Q You were also -- you also mentioned the animal 4 studies are expensive; is that right? 5 A True. 6 Q I'd like to point you to the exhibit we were just 7 talking about, DX-9476, the Wagner hamster study. 8 A Okay. 9 Q And if you look at page 11 of 12, same page we were 10 just speaking of. Down in the acknowledgments 11 section, it says, "This work was performed by 12 Battelle Pacific Northwest Laboratories for the 13 Johnson & Johnson Research Foundation under," and 14 then it lists a contract number. 15 So does that indicate to you that Johnson & 16 Johnson sponsored this study? 17 A Well, it sounds like it, yes. 18 Q I believe you testified in the past that that's a 19 good thing for companies to do, to conduct studies 20 on their products. 21 A Yeah, it can be, sure, if it it's done correctly 22 and all the appropriate points are made about the 23 products that are used and materials and the 24 science, of course. 25 MS. MALIK: Okay. That's all my questions. Page 546 1 Thank you. 2 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 3 MR. GREENE: No further questions, Your Honor. 4 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 5 We're going to take a break before our next 6 witness. I assume, are we finished with Dr. Brody? 7 MR. GREENE: Yes, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: In the sense that you don't have 9 to testify anymore. Thank you. All right, then. 10 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, if we could just 11 clarify, is it my understanding that the Court 12 doesn't allow the jury to ask questions of a 13 witness? 14 THE COURT: Oh, yes. Do the jurors have any 15 questions of Dr. Brody? And if so, remember we had 16 that procedure where you write it down and give it 17 to the Court, and Bridget can accept it for if you 18 have a question. 19 THE WITNESS: I'm ready. 20 THE COURT: So I take it back. 21 MR. GREENE: Can't let you go yet, Doctor. 22 THE COURT: And then if counsel could 23 approach. 24 (A bench conference was held outside the 25 hearing of the jury.) Page 547 1 MR. GREENE: This question has been answered. :.5 :17 :1 2 This question I think is relevant. 3 MS. MALIK: I don't think a foundation has 4 been laid that he knows anything about that. 5 MR. GREENE: I think he knows the scientific :.5 :17 :4 :.5 :17 :4 6 literature. 7 MS. MALIK: He says he doesn't. He's not an 8 epidemiologist. 9 MR. FINCH: It has nothing to do with 10 epidemiology. They're asking about the sex of the :.5 :17 :5 :.5 :17 :5 11 animals. 12 MS. MALIK: Is it sex of the animals? 13 MR. FINCH: It just says sex of -- they're 14 asking about his experience. It's what effect does :.5 :17 :5 :.5 :17 :5 15 sex have, if any - 16 THE COURT: In the basic research models. 17 MR. FINCH: In the basic research models, :.5 :18 : C :.5 :18 : C 18 that's what he's talking about. 19 THE COURT: I think test subjects. So then 20 there's no objection? 21 MR. GREENE: That's well within his expertise, 22 Your Honor. 23 MR. FINCH: We think he should be able to 24 answer that. :.5 :18 : C :.5 :18 :1 :.5 :18 :2 25 THE COURT: Any objection from defendants? :.5 :18 :2 Page 548 1 MS. MALIK: If it is limited to animal 2 research models, then that is fine. 3 MR. GREENE: I have no problem with that 4 limitation, no. 5 THE COURT: And then as to the other question? 6 MS. MALIK: It's been answered. 7 MR. FINCH: He's already answered it. 8 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 9 (Resumption of live trial proceedings.) 10 THE COURT: Well, first, I'm going to review 11 the rule as to asking questions just so everybody 12 knows. You write them down. You give them to the 13 Court. I show them to the lawyers. We discuss it. 14 And then the Court decides. And it says, "I'll 15 decide if your questions are permitted by law. And 16 if it is permitted, I will ask the witness each 17 question. If it is not permitted, do not speculate 18 why a question was not asked or what the answer 19 might have been." 20 Okay, so I'm just saying, no hurt feelings, 21 all right. 22 So the question is, what effect does sex have, 23 if any, in the basic research models? Does sex 24 condition the effect at asbestos? And this would 25 be limited to the research subjects. Page 549 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, of course. Well, we've :19:2 2 used both male and female animals in all of our 3 experiments, and we can't find any difference, and 4 I don't know any scientist, using asbestos, who's 5 found any difference in the response of males and 6 females at the structural level or genetic level. 7 So sex does not seem to play a role in the :19:4 8 development of mesothelioma. Males and females get 9 the disease at essentially the same rates based on 10 the exposures. If the exposures are the same, then 11 it doesn't matter if it's a male or a female. 12 THE COURT: Thank you, Dr. Brody. :2 0 :C 13 All right, now the Court will release you for :2 0 :C 14 a break. The admonishment, which I've got up on 15 the computer. 16 Before we recess, I have told you not to talk : 2 0 :2 17 about the case. Keep an open mind concerning it. 18 Do not discuss the evidence or the case with anyone 19 else, and you are not permitted to talk -- no one 20 else is permitted to talk to you about the case. 21 Keep an open mind, and keep an open mind about the 22 case until it is submitted to you for deliberation. 23 And that would include among yourselves as well. 24 During a recess, you should not talk also to : 2 0 :5 25 the attorneys, staff, witnesses about anything. In Page 550 1 addition, no research. And lastly, no photo taking 2 or recording in the courtroom. Cell phones should 3 only be used for taking notes. 4 Thank you. With that admonishment, enjoy your 5 break. We'll be back in court in 15 minutes. 6 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 7 (Whereupon, the jury exited the courtroom.) 8 THE COURT: And we are off the record. 9 MR. DRUMKE: We have one matter, Your Honor. 10 MR. GREENE: May we approach? 11 THE COURT: Yes. 12 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, we have reached a 13 settlement with Defendant Kerr, even though it's 15 :21 : C 15:21:1 15:21:1 15:21:3 15:21:3 15:21:4 15:21:4 1.5 :2 2 : C 14 confidential, but we are all in agreement. 15 MR. DRUMKE: That's correct, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: All right, then. So Kerr 17 Corporation has responded by Mr. Drumke that they 15:22:1 15:22:1 18 have reached a settlement? 19 MR. DRUMKE: Yes, sir. 20 THE COURT: All right, then. The Court has 21 made a record of this event and you are released. 22 MR. DRUMKE: We'll submit the proper 1.5:22:2 1.5:22:2 1.5:22:2 23 stipulations in the due course. 24 THE COURT: Now, the Court doesn't rule on any 1.5:22:3 25 p e n d i n g m o t i o n s u n til it recei v e s the Page 551 1 documentation. But we'll just leave everything 2 shown as pending. 3 MR. DRUMKE: Thank you, Your Honor. 4 THE COURT: Thank you. 5 (A brief recess was taken.) 6 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 7 (Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.) 8 THE COURT: Welcome back, and we are ready to 9 begin our next witness. Oh, you may be seated. 1.5:22:4 1.5:22:4 1.5:22:5 1.5:48:2 1.5:48:2 1.5:48:3 10 Everyone maybe be seated. 11 Before we do so, the Court would like to 12 inform the jury that Kerr Corporation is no longer 1.5:48:4 13 a party to the lawsuit, and you should not 14 speculate as to the reason why they are no longer a 15 party to the lawsuit. 16 So thank you very much. And I think we're 17 ready to begin with our next witness. Would 1.5 :4 9 : C 18 plaintiff like to call them. 19 MR. FINCH: Yes. Good afternoon, ladies and 20 gentlemen. May it please the Court, counsel, 1.5 :4 9 : C 21 ladies and gentlemen, our next witness is Dr. Barry 22 Castleman. 23 THE COURT: Sir, would you please raise your 24 right hand. 1.5:49:2 25 Page 552 1 BARRY CASTLEMAN, PH.D., 2 a witness called on behalf of the Plaintiffs, having 1.5:49:2 1.5:49:2 3 been first duly sworn by the Court, took the stand and 4 testified as follows: 5 THE COURT: Thank you. You may be seated. 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. FINCH: 8 Q Good afternoon, Dr. Castleman. 9 A Good afternoon, Mr. Finch. 10 Q Could you state and spell your name for the jury. 11 A My name is Barry Castleman, C-A-S-T-L-E-M-A-N. 12 Q And where do you work and where do you live? 13 A I live in Maryland. 14 Q I have a document here in my hand, and I believe 1.5:49:2 1.5:49:3 1.5:49:3 1.5:49:3 1.5:49:3 35:49:4 35:49:4 35:49:4 35:49:4 35:49:5 15 you can see it on the screen in front of you, in 16 front of you, which is your curriculum vitae. Did 17 you put together a curriculum vitae for us, Doctor? 18 A 19 That's right. background. This is a summary of my professional 35:50:C 20 Q And is it appropriate to call you a doctor? 21 A Yes, I think so, because I'm testifying about the 22 subject of my doctoral thesis. 23 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, we would offer at this 24 time as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2 Dr. Castleman's CV. 25 THE COURT: Any objection? 35:50: C 35:50:1 35:50:1 35:50:2 Page 553 1 MR. BICKS: No objection. 1 5 : 50:2 2 THE COURT: Court shows it admitted without 15:50:2 3 objection. And could the Court have a copy of it. 4 MR. FINCH: Sure. My copy has my notes on it, 1 5 : 5 0 : 3 5 but ... 6 THE COURT: Thank you. 7 BY MR. FINCH: 8 Q Your CV has your education right there, but could 15:50:3 15:50:4 15:50:4 9 you give the jury a brief rundown of your 10 educational background. 11 A I originally was trained as a chemical engineer, 12 and then I went back to school after working 15:50:5 13 briefly for the chemical industry and got master's 14 training in environmental engineering and air 15 pollution control. And my master's thesis was 16 about the health effects of asbestos since I became 17 interested in asbestos at that time, in 1970 and 18 1971. 19 And then I went back to school about ten years 1 5 : 5 1 : 1 20 later at the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and 21 Public Health in Baltimore, where I grew up, and 22 graduated in 1985 with a Doctor of Science from the 23 school of public health. And my doctoral thesis 24 was called "Asbestos: An historical case study of 25 corporate response to an industrial health hazard," Page 554 1 which is basically a case study of public health 2 failure to prevent preventable disease on a very 3 large scale. 4 Q And you got all of your degrees from Johns Hopkins? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Is it fair to say that for over 40 years you've 7 studied and practiced in the area of asbestos and 5 :51:4 15:51:5 15:51:5 8 other occupational and environmental health 9 problems? 10 A Yes, ever since really the early '70s. 11 Q You said your dissertation was on asbestos as a 12 health hazard; is that right? 15:52 : C 15:52 : C 13 A Yes. 14 Q Have you also published a book that's been widely 15 circulated about that issue? 16 A Yes, yes. 17 Q Can you tell the jury, what's this -- what is this 15:52 : C 15:52 : C 15:52:1 15:52:1 18 book and what's it about? 19 A Well, the book is called Asbestos: Medical and 20 Legal Aspects. The first edition was published in 15:52:1 21 1984, and it was largely identical to my doctoral 22 thesis. It contained some additional material. 23 And it's been expanded four times. So the fifth 24 edition, it's now twice the size of my doctoral 25 thesis, and the fifth edition was published in Page 555 1 2005. 2 Q And does this book in general collect information 3 both in the scientific literature and in the files 4 of corporations about what was known or knowable 5 about the hazards of asbestos at various points in 6 time? 7 A Yes. It's about the public health and corporate 8 history of knowledge about asbestos as a health 9 hazard. 10 Q We'll talk a little more about that book later, but 11 as part of your work, do you consult around the 12 world on asbestos-related health issues? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Have you been involved in world trade issues as 15 they relate to asbestos? 16 A Well, I've been involved in a case that went before 17 the World Trade Organization. I've been involved 18 with people in over two dozen countries where I've 19 gone to those countries and worked with people on 20 the problem of asbestos and public health. 21 Q Have you testified before the United States 22 Congress on issues related to public health and 23 asbestos? 24 A Yes. The first time was in 1973 when I was a local 25 health official talking about community exposure to Page 556 1 asbestos. 2 Q Have you done that, testified, by invitation to 1.5:53:4 3 labor organizations on issues of asbestos? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Are you a member of -- I see on your CV you 1.5:53:4 1.5:53:4 6 provided consulting to the U.S. Council on 7 Environmental Quality, the National Science 8 Foundation, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission. 9 Without going through in detail, what is the 10 consulting assignment you have you're most proud 11 of? 12 A Well, the World Bank and the World Health 13 Organization are fairly recent. I'm pleased with 15 :54 :1 14 them that I was able to write documents about 15 substitutes for asbestos that they published and 16 that contributed to their efforts to ban asbestos 17 worldwide. 18 Q What is the Collegium Ramazzini? 19 A The Collegium Ramazzini is named after the author 20 of the first book on occupational diseases 1.5:54:2 1.5:54:3 21 published in 1700. And so this is a group that was 22 organized in 1982 and has experts on occupational 23 and environmental health from all over the world. 24 They're editors of journals, chairmen of 25 departments in universities, and they're limited to Page 557 1 180 people from around the world who are members of 2 this group. Occasionally they issue statements or 3 documents that are helpful in dealing with toxic 4 substance control around the world. 5 Q Are you a member of the Collegium Ramazzini? 6 A Yes. 7 Q How long have you been such a member? 8 A Since 2004. 9 Q And one of only 180 scientists in the world are 10 members of that organization? 11 A That is right. 12 Q Have you testified in criminal cases involving 13 asbestos? 15:55:1 15:55:1 15:55:1 15:55:1 15:55:1 15 :55 :2 15 :55 :2 14 A Yes. 15 :55 :3 15 Q Could you tell the jury a little bit about that? 15 :55 :3 16 A Well, in Italy, they've actually prosecuted 17 businessmen for not protecting workers who 15 :55 :3 18 subsequently developed occupational cancer. And in 19 this one case, the defendant was a multibillionaire 20 Swiss asbestos magnate who owned asbestos factories 21 all over the world and had operated as the chief 22 executive officer of this enterprise from the time 23 he was 29 years old in 1976 for 15 more years. He 24 was being prosecuted for creating an environmental 25 disaster in Italy. Page 558 1 And I testified at the invitation of the 1 5 : 56:1 2 community most grievously affected by the operation 3 of their biggest factory in Italy, in northern 4 Italy and talking about the sharing of information 5 between the big asbestos companies at the time that 6 he took over and in the years before and slightly 7 after the time that he took over as the chief 8 officer of this family-owned enterprise. 9 Q And you have plans to go back to Italy to work on 15 :56 :4 10 asbestos health-related issues in the near future? 11 A Yes. 12 Q As part of your background and gaining knowledge 13 about asbestos and asbestos diseases, have you 15 :56 :4 15 :56 :5 14 researched the publicly available published 15 literature on asbestos diseases? 16 A Yes. 17 Q We heard from Dr. Brody earlier that the disease, 15:57:0 15:57:0 18 asbestosis and lung cancer and mesothelioma are all 19 associated with asbestos exposure. You have 20 researched when it became known or knowable in the 21 scientific literature that that happened, that 22 those diseases were caused by asbestos? 23 A Yes, I basically tried to find everything that was 24 ever published about the hazards of asbestos up 15 :57 :2 25 through around 1965, anywhere in the world. Page 559 1 Q Part of that information went into this big fat 1.5 :57 :2 2 book? 3 A Right. That's the background, and the rest of it 4 is the corporate knowledge documents that have been 1.5 :57 :3 5 unearthed in legal discovery and putting it 6 together to try and analyze what happened in terms 7 of the history of asbestos and what went wrong in 8 terms of not preventing more preventable disease. 9 Q So what was outside and publicly available to 10 scientists and researchers, you examined, but you 1.5 :57 :5 11 also, through discovery in lawsuits like this, were 12 able to look at the files inside of companies and 13 see what they were talking about at various points 14 in time; is that fair? 15 A Right. Legal discovery is the greatest research 16 tool I've ever seen. 17 Q In addition to your reviewing documents, did you 18 have opportunities to interview some of the real 1.5 :58 : C :.5 :58 :1 19 pioneers when it came to asbestos disease research? 20 A Yes. That was one of the things that I did in 21 doing this historical research, I tracked down a 1.5 :58 :2 22 bunch of old-timers who published some of them back 23 as far as 1931 about asbestosis and interviewed 24 them. 25 Q I s h o w e d t h e j u r y a p i c t u r e of t h i s m a n in o p e n i n g 1.5 :58 :3 Page 560 1 statement. Can you just tell us who he is and how 2 you knew him and what interactions you had with 3 him? 4 A This is Dr. Irving Selikoff. He was a medical 5 doctor in New York. In 1964, he published a very 6 widely cited study on the mortality experience of 7 asbestos insulation workers. There had been many 8 reported insulation workers dying from asbestosis 9 and cancers associated with asbestos, but no one 10 had ever taken a look at a population of these 11 people and tracked down what their study of their 12 mortality experience would show. 13 You don't pick up the cancers when you do 14 surveys of people who are actively employed. 15 That's -- that story only comes out in a mortality 16 study, not a morbidity study. So in constructing 17 this study, with the cooperation of the union, who 18 provided the names of all its members in New York 19 and New Jersey in 1942, he was able to see how many 20 of them had died by 1962 and then showed that there 21 was this extraordinary excess of deaths from lung 22 cancer, mesothelioma, asbestosis, and other forms 23 of cancer above what would have been expected based 24 on the vital statistics of New York and New Jersey 25 for males of that age and in that number. So Page 561 1 that's an epidemiology study he did on the 2 mortality experience of these workers. 3 Selikoff then remained very prominent in .6 : 00:1 4 pressing for the creation of government regulatory 5 agencies; OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health 6 Administration, created in 1971; and the 7 Environmental Protection Agency; and other -- and 8 then the regulations these agencies would come out 9 with, using their new authority to protect public 10 health from things like asbestos, certainly 11 including asbestos. 12 Q And have you attended scientific conferences where 13 Dr. Selikoff and others were present to discuss .6:00:4 14 various asbestos-related diseases? 15 A Yes. I think the earliest one I went to where 16 Dr. Selikoff was there was 1973. 17 Q Have you also been at a conference where Johnson & 18 Johnson employees were there relating to asbestos 16:00:5 16:01:0 19 and talc issues? 20 A Yes. There was one in 1977 where I spoke about the .6 : 01:1 21 export of hazardous industries in developing 22 countries, but there was a section on talc as a 23 dust hazard in the conference. 24 Q We'll get to that in a little bit later. 25 Now, Doctor, have you come and talked to .6 : 01:2 .6:01:3 Page 562 1 juries in courtrooms in other places about your 2 testimony as an occupational and environmental 3 health policy expert and the public health history 4 as it relates to asbestos? 5 A Yeah. 6 Q And you've actually testified in this very 7 courtroom to juries in Indiana about that subject? 8 A Yes. 9 Q You have testified at my law firm's request on 10 occasion in cases involving people with .6:01:5 .6:01:5 .6:01:5 .6:01:5 11 asbestos-related diseases; is that fair? 12 A Yes, I have. .6 : 02:0 13 Q I assume you get compensated for your time? .6 : 02:0 14 A Yes. 15 Q What was your testimony before the World Bank and .6 : 02:0 .6 : 02:1 16 the World Health Organization about, just briefly? 17 A Well, with the World Health Organization, I was 16:02:1 18 mostly writing about substitutes for asbestos 19 cement sheets and pipes which are the -- that 20 accounts for 95 percent of all the asbestos use in 21 the world today, almost all of it in developing 22 countries. 23 And so the emphasis was on the care that needs . 6 : 0 2 : 3 24 to be taken when you're dealing with these kinds of 25 materials, if they're already in place, and the Page 563 1 need to find substitute materials, wherever 2 possible, in new construction and replacement. 3 So, you know, I did research. I contacted : 4 people, companies that I had known that had made 5 asbestos products that had been former adversaries, 6 and then when they went to nonasbestos products, 7 suddenly they flipped and wanted to see asbestos 8 banned so they wouldn't have to compete against 9 asbestos. And they could tell me valuable 10 information on the comparative costs of production 11 with the asbestos and the nonasbestos products that 12 they converted to. 13 So interviews with companies like that in : 14 Brazil and South Africa were very helpful in 15 assembling the information I needed for these 16 reports. 17 Q Have you applied the knowledge you have gained : 18 through your work in learning about asbestos 19 medical and legal aspects to help people in the 20 third world and around the world to help them 21 reduce their potential exposures to asbestos? 22 A Yes. Almost from the beginning of my work, I saw : 23 that there was a dramatic increase of imports of 24 asbestos products into the United States, 25 subsequent to the creation of these new regulatory Page 564 1 agencies. And I thought, well, if we stopped at 2 the border and declare the problem solved, we might 3 kill more people than we save. So I started 4 working with people in Mexico and lots of other 5 countries. 6 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, at this time I'd offer 7 Dr. Castleman as an expert in occupational and 8 environmental health policy and public health 9 history as it relates to asbestos. 10 MS. WEGLARZ: No objection. 11 MR. BICKS: No objection, Your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Thank you. You may proceed. 13 BY MR. FINCH: 14 Q Doctor, have I asked you to come here and talk to 15 the jury today about your research about asbestos 16 and its role in public health? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Is that sometimes known by lawyers as state of the 19 art? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Is that -- what does that really boil down to is 22 what was known or knowable at any particular point 23 in time? 24 A Right. 25 Q I showed this chart to the jury in opening Page 565 1 statement. Would you take a minute to look at it, 2 and then I'm going to get into details of it. 3 First of all, is it generally accurate? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Could you walk the jury through some of the major 6 studies and articles over the years that show that 7 the medical and scientific community and community 8 of asbestos producers learned these things at 9 various points in time about asbestos? 10 A Sure. Just by way of hitting the highlights, the 11 first English language publication about the 12 hazards of breathing asbestos dust was a government 13 report from Great Britain, the Annual Report of the 14 Chief Inspector of Factories and Workshops for the 15 year 1898. So they were way ahead of us in terms 16 of their response. They had a medical inspector of 17 factories, and they published these annual reports. 18 And the annual report of the year 1898 noted 19 that the lady inspectors of factories, as they were 20 called, had identified lung disease in factories 21 where asbestos was being processed, and they said 22 that the dust needs to be controlled and that it 23 was a serious hazard. So that was the beginning of 24 recognition of this. 25 In 1924 -- well, between 1898 and 1924, in Page 566 1 1918, there were the first publications in the 2 United States, 1917 and 1918, in radiology 3 journals. So doctors were beginning to use the 4 chest x-ray as a diagnostic tool, and they showed 5 the chest x-ray films of people exposed to 6 different types of dusts, including asbestos, to 7 show the different types of abnormal films, chest 8 x-ray films these people had. 9 And also in 1918, there was a U.S. government : 10 report published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics 11 on mortality in dusty trades. It was a report 12 about 400 pages long. And it had several pages on 13 asbestos and its hazards. 14 It was written by an actuary for the : 15 Prudential Insurance Company, Frederick Hoffman, 16 and it noted that there had been reports of death 17 in Britain reported by the Annual Reports of the 18 Chief inspector in 1906, 1907, 1911, and that it 19 was generally -- the report said it was the general 20 practice to decline people for life insurance by 21 American and Canadian life insurance companies on 22 account of the assumed health injurious nature of 23 their occupation. 24 So the word "asbestosis" hadn't yet appeared : 25 in the medical literature. The statistics Hoffman Page 567 1 presented related to deaths attributed to pneumonia 2 and tuberculosis, but the insurance companies had 3 already identified asbestos workers as bad risks 4 for life insurance even so. 5 Q That was a hundred years ago you're talking about? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Could you continue, in the 1920s and '30s, what 8 became known or knowable about asbestos? 9 A In 1924, there was a case reported in the British 10 Medical Journal, which is in every medical library 11 I've ever walked into. The British Medical Journal 12 report described a woman who had died at the age of 13 33 with what the pathologists writing the report 14 called fibrosis of the lung due to asbestos dust. 15 She had started working in an asbestos factory at 16 the age of 13. She had become disabled by the time 17 she was 26, and she died at 33. 18 And so he published about the abnormal chest 19 x-rays, about the abnormal pathology of her lungs 20 at autopsy, and described that. And within the 21 next couple of years, the word "asbestosis" was 22 used to describe this lung scarring condition, and 23 additional cases were reported in the British 24 Medical Journal and in other journals. 25 The Journal of the American Medical Page 568 1 Association subsequent to the publication of three 2 reports in the British Medical Journal at the end 3 of 1927, in the next month, January of 1928, the 4 Journal of the American Medical Association had an 5 editorial called "Pulmonary Asbestosis," warning 6 doctors in the United States that with a large and 7 growing asbestos industry here, surely there were 8 also going to be cases of this disease in the 9 United States, and citing the British articles. 10 And then again in the 1930s, the Journal of : 11 the American Medical Association had another 12 editorial on asbestos, and in this case noting that 13 the British authorities were moving toward making 14 asbestosis a compensable occupational disease under 15 their workers' compensation law. 16 Also in 1930, the first epidemiology study was : 17 published where a factory inspector in Britain 18 conducted a survey of over 300 people who worked in 19 asbestos factories, examined them, and found that 20 26 percent of them had asbestosis. These are 21 people who are actively employed. And the report 22 found that none of the 89 people with less than 23 five years in the industry had asbestosis yet. 24 And Meriwether, the author of the report, : 25 described this as a maturation period, that you Page 569 1 don't get sick within the first months or years of 2 exposure, no matter how massive the dust exposure 3 is; but over time, the interaction of the mineral 4 fibers with your lung tissues, it's going to cause 5 this lung scarring disease. And you will 6 eventually start to become short of breath upon 7 exertion, reduce chest expansion when you take a 8 deep breath, those kinds of clinical signs. 9 Q And this -- you mentioned Meriwether. Is this the 10 cover page from that 1930 report, "Report on 11 Effects of Asbestos Dust on the Lungs, Dust 12 Suppression in the Asbestos Industry"? 13 A Right. And this is a report that was submitted to 14 the Parliament by the factory inspectorate and was 15 the subject of editorials in the British Medical 16 Journal and The Lancet when it was published. So 17 these are -- this was a report that received a 18 great deal of prominence at the time of its 19 publication. 20 Q And The Lancet is a medical journal published in 21 what country? 22 A The Lancet is like the British Medical Journal. It 23 covers the full range of medical subjects. It's a 24 general medical journal. It's the world's oldest 25 medical journal. Page 570 1 Q And it's published here in the United States of .6:11:4 2 America? 3 A Well, it's available in every medical library I've 4 ever walked into, like the British Medical Journal. 5 Q And in this 1930s study, was there a discussion 6 about the importance of educating people who were .6:11:4 16:11:5 7 potentially exposed to asbestos about the danger? 8 A Yes. Meriwether emphasized that workers needed to .6:12:0 9 be educated to a sane appreciation of the risk, 10 given this delayed effect that this dust has and 11 the fact that it had no warning properties at all. 12 You know, it just seemed like ordinary dust might 13 be in the air after vacuuming the courtroom. It 14 was like that. 15 Q As a public health scientist, why is it so 16:12:2 16 important to warn people who might be exposed to 17 unseen -- or hazards they don't know are there? 18 A Well, because otherwise how are they supposed to 19 know? I mean, if the dust has no warning 16:12:4 20 properties. If it was like a paint solvent that 21 made you gag or chlorine gas that would burn when 22 you breathe it, you'd know the stuff is bad for 23 you, at least in terms of its immediate effects. 24 But if you have something that has such a long 1 6 : 1 2 : 5 25 delay, immortal danger, that's clearly something Page 571 1 that people need to have explained to them, if 2 they're going to take precautions seriously. And I 3 basically recognized this as a 22-year-old engineer 4 before I had any training in public health. 5 When I worked in the chemical industry and I ] 6 had guys 40 years older than me working for me, I 7 figured I couldn't just stand there like Napoleon 8 and order them to do this and do that without 9 telling them why. So I always tried to look up 10 what I could about the health effects of the 11 chemicals that we were handling at the research 12 center, which changed from month to month, so that 13 they could be warned about the particular types of 14 effects that each of those substances might cause 15 and so that they'd be on guard if they were 16 starting to observe some of those effects, to 17 attribute it to the chemical exposure and to, 18 therefore, be more careful about limiting their 19 exposure. 20 Q When in time did the first reports first surface ] 21 that asbestos caused cancer, specifically lung 22 cancer, and when was it conclusively established 23 that asbestos caused lung cancer? 24 A The first case reports were published in the United ] 25 States and in England in 1935. And again in 1936, Page 572 1 more in Britain. And in 1938, a German doctor 2 published a couple more cases of -- lung cancer and 3 asbestosis is what I'm talking about, case reports 4 where the individual died with both of these 5 diseases. And lung cancer was far less common then 6 than it's since become. 7 So it struck these doctors as alarming. And 8 the German paper was titled "The Occupational 9 Cancer of Asbestos Workers." He noted that in all 10 of the six cases, just six cases in the literature, 11 his two and four earlier ones, that there was 12 always 15 to 21 years between the beginning of 13 exposure and the time that the person died, that - 14 and so there was some of these people dying at the 15 normal age of lung cancer, 71. But others were 16 dying in their 40s, which was unusual for lung 17 cancer. But there was that consistency about the 18 latent period. 19 And that there were -- the fractional number 20 of people who were known to have died with lung 21 cancer as a fraction of the total number in -- who 22 had died with asbestos was two out of 12 in both 23 Britain and in Germany. And so again, this is way 24 above -- one out of six is way above the 2 to 25 6 percent that was the normal rate of lung cancer Page 573 1 in general autopsies. And so this Nordenham also 2 pointed out. 3 And he also noted that in one case there were 4 two primary cancers of the lung in the same 5 individual. They weren't metastases. They were 6 separate primary cancers. He said, this is a 7 carcinogen acting here. And immediately Germany 8 made lung cancer a compensable occupational 9 disease, and this was announced in an editorial in 10 the most prominent medical journal in Germany, the 11 German Medical Weekly in the beginning of 1939 in 12 an editorial on asbestosis. 13 Q And when did -- in the United States did the 14 conclusion become reached among the medical and 15 scientific community that asbestos caused lung 16 cancer? 17 A Well, there were case reports appearing in the 18 literature around the world. And by 1944, the 19 Journal of the American Medical Association had an 20 editorial on environmental cancer listing asbestos 21 as one of about 10 or 12 substances that were known 22 and suspected of causing occupational cancer. 23 And in 1949, the Journal of the American 24 Medical Association had another editorial, this 25 time using as the news peg the report from the Page 574 1 British Factory Inspectorate, that of the 235 2 deaths they were aware of over a 22-year period 3 involving asbestosis, 13 percent of these people 4 had cancers of the lung and pleura. 5 Now, the normal rate of lung cancer or cancers 6 of the lung in pleura in the general population, in 7 the U.S. at that time was 1 percent. And so the 8 editorial in the Journal of the American Medical 9 Association said this is quite striking, that 10 there's such a great excess of pulmonary cancer. 11 And they were talking about cancers of the 12 lung and pleura, that pleural cancers were being 13 counted with the lung cancers in the British 14 statistics. And so this was highlighted and 15 emphasized in this editorial in the most widely 16 available medical journal in the United States. 17 Q Are you familiar with a scientist called Sir 18 Richard Doll? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Who was Sir Richard Doll, and how does he play into 21 the story of asbestos and lung cancer generally? 22 A Well, Doll was an epidemiologist. He was a medical 23 doctor also, but he did statistical studies on 24 human populations. And he published very prominent 25 papers on lung cancer and smoking in 1950 and 1952, Page 575 1 which went a long way to establishing the 2 connection. 3 And so in 1955, Doll published a study on lung . 6 : 1 8 : 1 4 cancer in a population of asbestos workers, found 5 that there were more than ten times the expected 6 rate of lung cancer in these workers. Even though 7 he didn't have smoking histories, these people were 8 all gone by the time he's doing the study. 9 And interviewing relatives for smoking .6:18:3 10 histories is very unreliable. There was no reason 11 to expect that smoking could possibly expect - 12 explain that -- these men didn't smoke ten times as 13 much as men in the general population, and there's 14 no reason to think that they would -- that smoking 15 could explain such a high excess risk as Doll 16 found. 17 Q Let's talk specifically about the disease 16 :19 : C 18 mesothelioma. When were there first reports of 19 mesothelioma as a separate cancer in the medical 20 literature, and when was it conclusively 21 established that asbestos was the culprit? 22 A Well, the first doctor to attribute the pleural 23 mesothelioma to asbestos exposure was a German .6:19:1 24 doctor, Dr. Wedler, W-E-D-L-E-R. 25 Q A n d y o u r e f e r e n c e t h i s in y o u r b o o k ? 16:19:2 Page 576 1 A I did. :19:3 2 Q And it's on page 105. The book doesn't go back :19:3 3 into evidence, but just so the jury can see it. 4 This is talking about cases reported of 5 mesothelioma? 6 A Right. And what I'm noting in the table is that :19:4 7 Wedler's report, he notes two cases of pleural 8 mesothelioma, and among the people who have been 9 autopsied in Germany who had died with asbestosis, 10 and that was enough to convince Wedler that this 11 very rare cancer was an occupational cancer of 12 asbestos workers. 13 And even though this was published in the :2 0 :C 14 middle of World War II, it was abstracted in 15 Britain eight months after it was published. And 16 it was then republished in the United States after 17 that. So Wedler's report, even though it appeared 18 in 1943, was still carried over here within a short 19 time. 20 So he was the first one to say that asbestos : 2 0 :2 21 causes mesothelioma. There would be cases 22 reported, including Richard Doll reported one that 23 he counted in with the lung cancers in his 1955 24 report that we talked about. And now in 1960 came 25 a report from South Africa of 33 cases of pleural Page 577 1 mesothelioma. 2 Q Is this the Wagner you're -- the jury's heard a 1.6:20:4 3 little bit about Chris Wagner before. This is that 4 study you're talking about? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Describe what that was. 7 A In 32 of these 33, he was able to track down a 8 history of asbestos exposure, and half of them an 1.6:20:5 1.6:20:5 1.6:20:5 9 environmental exposure, not an occupational 10 exposure. It wasn't from their work that they got 11 exposed. It was just from living in an area where 12 a particular type of asbestos was mined. 13 Q And between 1960 and 1964, did more and more C6:21:1 14 articles get published in the medical literature 15 linking mesothelioma to asbestos exposure? 16 A Yes. And one of the things that the doctors noted 17 in the British Medical Journal and letters, for :.6 :21:2 18 example, was that a lot of these people didn't have 19 asbestosis. They had an occupational exposure to 20 asbestos, but they hadn't had a real heavy 21 exposure. We're not talking about people who had 22 extensive asbestosis. In many cases, they had 23 little or no evidence of asbestosis, and yet they 24 were dying of this very rare cancer that was 25 increasingly being attributed to asbestos exposure. Page 578 1 In 1962, from Belfast, 15 cases were reported, .6 :2 1 :! 2 and they were occurring throughout the shipyard 3 trades, not just the insulation workers who had the 4 most exposure with asbestos. So the dust was just 5 around in this environment and a lot of the workers 6 were exposed to it and were getting this cancer. 7 And then there was this big conference in the 1 6 : 2 2 : 1 8 United States in 1964 which - 9 Q I don't know if the jury has heard in great detail, .6 : 22:2 10 can you tell the jury about what happened in 1964 11 in New York City and who sponsored that conference 12 and what was -- who generally attended it and what 13 they talked about as it related to asbestos? 14 A This was a three-day conference. It was held at 15 the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York. 16:22:3 16 Dr. Selikoff organized the conference through the 17 New York Academy of Sciences. He brought experts 18 in from all over the world, appeared from 19 Australia, South Africa, Britain, European 20 countries, and made presentations about studies 21 that they had done on the lethality of asbestos. 22 This is one of the first things I came across . 6 : 2 3 : 0 23 when I started reading about asbestos in 1970, 24 which really shocked me, the scale of this as a 25 public health hazard that was so evident from this Page 579 1 volume of all these papers. 2 And so in this conference, among other things, 3 new information was presented showing that a 4 mortality study in Britain found that not only was 5 mesothelioma a disease that you could get from 6 occupational exposure to asbestos -- what they did 7 was they identified 76 cases of mesothelioma from a 8 London hospital, and they went and interviewed all 9 the survivors -- they interviewed the survivors of 10 all these people, all the people that died, and 11 then they picked a population of 76 people who were 12 still living in a nursing home or something who 13 could also be interviewed as a control group, a 14 comparison group. And they asked them about every 15 job they'd ever had that could have exposed them to 16 asbestos, neighborhood exposure, household contact. 17 And what they found was it showed us a lot more 18 occupational asbestos exposure in the mesothelioma 19 group than in the equal number of controls. 20 But putting that aside, there was also quite 21 an excess of household contact cases, people whose 22 exposure only came from living in the same 23 household as somebody that worked with asbestos and 24 came home with the dust on their clothes, hair, 25 shoes, car, lunch box, and contaminated the living Page 580 1 environment with these virtually indestructible 2 mineral fibers by coming home with the dust every 3 day from work. 4 And then they excluded the occupational and : 5 the household contact cases and they said, what 6 about living within a half mile radius of an 7 asbestos air pollution point source, and they found 8 still it was statistically significant excess of 9 mesothelioma cases which met that criteria. 10 So this was a very powerful study that Muriel : 11 Newhouse and Hilda Thompson published at this 12 conference in identifying in a very powerful way 13 that it didn't take much asbestos exposure to get 14 mesothelioma. You didn't need to have a job that 15 exposed you to it for years in order to be at risk 16 of this occupational cancer or environmental 17 cancer. 18 Q Was this conference widely publicized, both not : 19 only in the medical press, but in the popular 20 press, like the newspapers? 21 A Yes. I mean, there was an article in the New York : 22 Times a couple weeks before it occurred. There 23 would have probably been more publicity if some of 24 the companies hadn't raised Cain about Selikoff 25 handing out press releases. The press releases Page 581 1 weren't handed out, but they came up in legal 2 discovery of Asbestos Textile Institute trade 3 association minutes where the people were bragging 4 about how they had suppressed release of press 5 releases and copies were in the files of the trade 6 association. 7 Q Were there articles in that conference, later ] 8 published in a book the next year, the New York 9 Academy of Sciences put them all in a book that 10 anybody could go to a medical library and get -- I 11 mean, this is a reprint, but this was available by 12 1965? 13 A Yes. I mean, I've got -- my original copy was a ] 14 paperbound cover that's kind of not in as good 15 condition. But it was published -- it was 16 Volume 132 of the annals of the New York Academy of 17 Sciences. So you could just look it up in the 18 medical library, and that's how I found it. 19 Q Who is W.C. Hueper of the National Cancer ] 20 Institute? 21 A Well, Dr. Hueper was the leading author of articles ] 22 on occupational and environmental cancer in the 23 world in the 1940s and '50s and '60s. He published 24 about 350 articles, books, chapters in books, and 25 editorials, and he was the author of the unsigned Page 582 1 editorials in the Journal of the American Medical 2 Association I mentioned in 1944 and 1949 who was 3 invited to contribute them by the editor. 4 And Hueper was one of the people that I 16 :2 7 : C 5 interviewed in doing this research. He was still 6 around when I started this investigation in 1976. 7 He died in 1978. 8 Q And this is from Hueper's article in 1965? 9 A I'm sorry, he was at the conference, and he made a 16:27:1 16 :2 7 :2 10 presentation emphasizing nonoccupational as well as 11 occupational exposure. 12 Q "Asbestosis and asbestos cancer hazards related to 13 inhalation to asbestos exists not only for 16 :2 7 :3 14 asbestosis workers proper engaged in the direct and 15 regular production, processing, handling, and using 16 of asbestos-containing materials, but also for the 17 large number of individuals who may sustain such 18 contacts on incidental basis." 19 Was that the thrust of a lot of the literature 1 6 : 2 7 : 5 20 at this conference, how dangerous asbestos was when 21 it comes to mesothelioma? 22 A Yes. People were starting to pay real attention to 23 environmental exposures as well as occupational 24 exposures. And when you consider that the 16 :2 8 : C 25 occupational exposures involved at least millions Page 583 1 of construction workers and mechanics, then you 2 start throwing in the nonoccupational and 3 environmental exposures of anybody that lived near 4 a shipyard or an asbestos plant or went to a 5 hardware store to buy products that contained 6 asbestos, it became obvious that probably the 7 majority of the general population was at risk. 8 Q Are you familiar with the paper in 1967 by Lieben : 9 and Pistamka entitled "Mesothelioma and asbestos 10 exposure"? 11 A Yes. : 12 Q And that is a series of case reports about people : 13 getting mesothelioma from different types of 14 exposure circumstances? 15 A Well, I wouldn't quite call it that. But they were : 16 government officials in Pennsylvania and they 17 thought, well, let's take a look and see what we 18 can find out here if we identify cases of 19 mesothelioma and then take a look at what kind of 20 asbestos exposure these people had. And they also 21 documented a number of cases of neighborhood 22 exposure and household contact exposure, 23 neighborhood exposure like a minister whose church 24 was, you know, near an asbestos factory. People 25 like that were among the victims of mesothelioma Page 584 1 reported in this study. 2 Q One of the patients they're talking about is a 3 mesothelioma patient, right? Patient 4Q is 4 employed in industrial sales, never had any .6:29:3 5 occupational or asbestos exposure. "Extensive 6 questioning revealed that on two occasions several 7 years before he had applied asbestos insulation to 8 boilers in his home, mixing asbestos cement 9 himself. His total exposure during these 10 applications was only a matter of hours." 11 Was that something that was published in the 12 medical literature and publicly available to any 13 corporation that chose to look for it in 1967? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Would it have been available to Johnson & Johnson, 16 for example? 17 A Sure. 18 Q Now, you mentioned regulation. When did the United .6:29:! .6:30:0 .6:30:0 .6:30:0 .6:30:2 19 States government first start putting regulations 20 in place to try to deal with asbestos exposure, 21 what were the government entities involved in that, 22 and to this day, is there the regulated level of 23 exposure considered to be safe when it comes to 24 cancer? 25 A Wel l, t h e r e g u l a t i o n s w e r e i s s u e d b y t h e 1.6:30:5 Page 585 1 Environmental Protection Agency, which was created 2 in 1970 and immediately started regulating asbestos 3 in 1971; and by OSHA, the Occupational Safety and 4 Health Administration and the Department of Labor, 5 which opened its doors this April of 1971 and 6 published an emergency temporary standard for 7 asbestos in December of 1971. So it was a high 8 priority for both of these agencies. 9 Also, the Consumer Product Safety Commission 10 was created in 1972, and after receiving a petition 11 to ban asbestos in drywall patching compounds in 12 1976, banned asbestos in those products which had 13 been widely used in the United States and had 14 accounted for about 10,000 tons a year of asbestos 15 being sold to consumers in these products. 16 Q And to this day, is the permissible exposure limit, 17 does OSHA say there's still a risk of cancer from 18 that? 19 A The second part of your question, yes. OSHA - 20 first of all, the answer is no. What OSHA has to 21 do is -- the standards OSHA publishes have to be 22 technologically feasible, that's what the law says. 23 So that means OSHA has to weigh economics against 24 worker protection in the setting of its 25 exposures -- exposure limits. Page 586 1 And so, for example, in the first exposure 2 limit they set, in the first standard they set in 3 1972, they gave industry four years to get the 4 exposures down to a lower level of exposure than 5 the level that would take effect in 1972. That was 6 an obvious manifestation of this effort by OSHA to 7 publish a regulation that would survive a legal 8 challenge on this issue of technological 9 feasibility. 10 But even the current standard, they have 11 acknowledged the exposure limit is -- several 12 people in OSHA have said three people out of a 13 thousand who have a lifetime of exposure are going 14 to get occupational cancer from that level of 15 exposure that they do still permit. 16 Q Has any reputable scientific agency said that 17 there's a level of asbestos exposure that's safe? 18 A No. Many of them have said the opposite, the World 19 Health Organization, the International Agency for 20 Research on Cancer, EPA, OSHA, the National 21 Institute for Occupational Safety and Health in 22 this country. 23 Q Where were you living and working in 1971, 24 Dr. Castleman? 25 A I was living in Baltimore. I was writing my Page 587 1 master's thesis. I was reading about the health 2 effects of asbestos. 3 Q Did you have occasion to write to Johnson & Johnson 4 about its talc or its baby powder in the early 1.6:33:4 5 1970s? 6 A I did. 7 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, at this time we would 8 offer Plaintiffs ' Exhibit 306, 308, 295, 296, and 9 317. These are -- 10 MR. BICKS: I know. Let me quickly see it. 11 I'm sure it's fine. 12 THE COURT: Also, the Court would like you to 13 repeat the numbers please. 14 MR. FINCH: Sure. 15 THE COURT: And has defendant received those? 16 MR. BICKS: I think so. 17 MR. FINCH: Yes, they were part of the, I 1.6:33:5 1.6:33:5 :.6 :3 4 : C :.6 :3 4 :1 1.6 :3 4 :2 1.6:34:2 1.6:34:2 1.6:34:2 18 believe, stipulated exhibits. 19 MR. BICKS: There's so many exhibits that the 1.6:34:3 20 numbers are -- 21 MR. FINCH: The numbers can be -- 1.6:34:3 22 THE COURT: So 306. 1.6:35:3 23 MR. FINCH: 306, 308, 295, 296, and 317. 1.6:35:3 24 MR. BICKS: No objection. 1.6:36:2 25 THE COURT: No objection to any of these, all 1.6:36:2 Page 588 1 right. And the Court sees that they're all marked, 2 so the Court orders them admitted without 3 objection. 4 MR. FINCH: Thank you, Your Honor. May I 5 proceed? 6 THE COURT: You may. 7 BY MR. FINCH: 8 Q Dr. Castleman, I'm going to put what's been marked 9 as Exhibit 306. Is this a letter in your 1.6:36:3 1.6:36:3 1.6:36:3 1.6:36:3 10 handwriting in 1971 to Johnson & Johnson? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And what are you writing them about here? 13 A Well, I tell them that I'm a graduate student at 14 Hopkins and I'm writing a literature review that 1.6:36:5 1.6:36:5 1.6:36:5 15 was the subject of my master's thesis on the health 16 effects of asbestos. And I noted a concern about 17 asbestos in talcum powders, and I asked them some 18 questions. 19 Q And did they write you back? 20 A They did. 21 MR. FINCH: This is Exhibit 308, Your Honor. 22 It's a letter on Johnson & Johnson letterhead dated 3.6 :3 7 :1 1.6:37:2 1.6:37:2 23 July -- excuse me, August 2, 1971, in response to 24 Dr. Castleman's letter. 25 Q W h a t g e n e r a l l y d i d J o h n s o n & J o h n s o n t e l l y o u w h e n 1.6:37:4 Page 589 1 you wrote them in 1971? 2 A Well, the most important thing is the beginning of 1.6:37:4 3 Item 2, "We have no asbestos in our baby powder." 4 And then they proceed to describe some tests that 5 they said they had done to confirm that. 6 Q And is Exhibit 295 another letter you received the 7 following spring from Johnson & Johnson? 16 :3 8 : C 8 A Yes. 9 Q What did Johnson & Johnson write to you in the 16:38:1 16:38:1 10 spring of 1972? What did they tell you? 11 A Well, I was continuing to be concerned because I 16 :3 8 :2 12 thought the talc itself might also be even capable 13 of causing cancer. But in the course of answering 14 me, I think they said in this letter too that 15 there's no asbestos in their baby powder. I don't 16 see that sentence right offhand. 17 Q Maybe you're thinking about the prior letter. "We 16 :3 8 :4 18 have no asbestos in our baby powder." 19 A That was first, but I think there were two letters 20 in which they stated that, and maybe it's one of 16:38:5 21 the others. Because I would write to them from 22 time to time and ask them questions because I was 23 pursuing these questions about talc itself. 24 Q Oh, I see. This comes from me getting old and 25 needing reading glasses. 16 :3 9 : C Page 590 1 "But to answer your question, Johnson & 2 Johnson takes great care in the formulation and :.6 :3 9:1 3 production of all its products. In the case of 4 Johnson's baby powder, the talc comes from our own 5 mines, specifically selected for the quality of 6 their talc. The high grade talc is processed 7 through repeated washings, in order to free it of 8 impurities. Under careful analysis by independent 9 experts, the finished product has been shown to be 10 free of asbestos." 11 Is that what you're thinking of? 12 A Right, it was that last sentence I was trying to 1.6:39:3 1.6:39:4 13 recall. 14 Q And did you believe Johnson & Johnson? 15 A Sure. 16 Q This is Exhibit Plaintiffs' 296. This is -- who 1.6:39:4 1.6:39:4 1.6:39:4 17 was Thomas Shelley? Apparently he was someone at 18 Johnson & Johnson? 19 A Right. He was somebody who had written back to me, 20 and so I knew his title as well as his name. And 1.6:39:5 21 so when I followed up, I sent one of these letters 22 to him. 23 Q What did you write to him? 24 A Well, I noted that I'd been writing to him 25 previously when I was at Hopkins, and I asked him 1.6 :4 0 : C 1.6 :4 0 : C Page 591 1 some questions and noted that they'd been kind 2 about sending a nice reply. And I said also that 3 it is apparent that Johnson's talc is free of 4 asbestos. I simply accepted them at their word, 5 what they had told me. 6 Q Did that remain your opinion for many years? 7 A Yes. 8 Q How long did you continue to believe that Johnson's 9 baby powder was asbestos free? 10 A Well, I forget, quite a while longer than that. I 11 really didn't know anything -- I didn't have any 1.6:40:3 1.6:40:3 1.6:40:3 1.6:40:3 12 reason to question it. 13 Q Within the past several years, have you received 14 some documents that were obtained in discovery from 36:40:5 15 lawsuits against Johnson & Johnson that caused you 16 to maybe question that belief? 17 A Yes. 18 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, at this time we would 19 offer Plaintiffs' 122, 578, and 361 into evidence, 16:41:0 16:41:0 20 which I believe are stipulated as admissible. 21 MR. BICKS: Can I just have an objection, Your 1 6 : 4 1 : 1 22 Honor, to the -- this testimony on the grounds of 23 nondisclosure and, in fact, kind of a different 24 disclosure than at the deposition. I'm happy to 25 discuss it with you. Page 592 1 THE COURT: So you're not objecting to the 2 exhibits, you're objecting - :.6 :4 1 : 3 3 MR. BICKS: I think the exhibits are already 4 stipped in. :.6 :41:3 5 THE COURT: That's what he said. You're 6 objecting to the questioning? :.6 :41:3 7 MR. FINCH: Can we take that up at a sidebar, 8 the questioning? 1 6 :41:4 9 THE COURT: Yes. 10 MR. FINCH: So per -- let me get the documents 11 into evidence first. Then we'll approach. 1 6 :41:4 1 6 :41:4 12 Do you have copies of these? They're 122, 13 578, and 361. They were on the list that we 1 6 :42:1 14 stipulated and agreed. 15 MR. BICKS: Yes, I have them. 16 MR. FINCH: May I approach, Your Honor, to 1 6 :42:1 1.6:42:2 17 hand the clerk? 18 THE COURT: You may. And is this 122, 578, 1.6:42:2 19 and 361? 20 MR. FINCH: Yes, yes, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Which the Court admits without 1.6:42:2 1.6:42:2 22 objection, as they've already been stipulated to. 23 Thank you. 24 (A bench conference was held outside the 16 :42 :4 25 hearing of the jury.) Page 593 1 MR. FINCH: I asked Mr. Greene to come up 1.6:42:4 2 because he was at the deposition. So it's 3 appropriate for him to address this issue. 4 MR. BICKS: I have the -- this is what was 5 said at the deposition when he was asked what he 1.6:42:5 6 was going to testify about. 7 THE COURT: So is this the only part about the 8 letters? 9 MR. BICKS: My objection is it's fine, he can 10 communicate with his back and forth with Johnson & 11 Johnson. Now they want to start getting into 1.6:43:4 1.6:43:4 12 showing him documents from 20 years later, asking 13 to look at internal documents. He's not an expert 14 on talc testing, and he's a state of the art 15 witness. He says this was known. This was 16 knowable. We don't have any problem in him talking 17 about that, but now they're going to get into a 18 couple documents, saying you didn't know about 19 this, this means -- there's indication that there's 20 asbestos in the talc 20 years later. He's not - 21 that's not an expert qualified to talk about that. 22 I can voir dire him right now and show he's not 23 qualified. He doesn't know anything about testing, 24 mineralogy. 25 In fact, he's said that, and he'll say that if 1.6:44:2 Page 594 1 I ask. They just want to use him as a mouthpiece 2 to say, oh, look at this document 25 years later, 3 what does this show. He's not qualified to be a 4 mouthpiece for corporate documents, particularly 5 when he says it here, he's not going to do that. 6 THE COURT: So you're objecting that -- on the 7 basis that he's testifying outside his area of 1.6:44:4 8 competency? 9 MR. BICKS: Exactly. And disclosure here, 10 both, but competency as well. And I can voir dire 1.6:44:5 11 him and show that. 12 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, with respect to 13 disclosure, these documents were part of his 1.6:44:5 14 reliance materials, and he talked extensively about 15 them at his deposition. If you want to take a 16 look, he was asked and talked about the fact that 17 he - 18 THE COURT: What page are you on? 19 MR. GREENE: I'm on page 14 of his deposition, 20 Your Honor. :.6 :45 :1 :.6 :45 :1 21 THE COURT: I've got 14 here. 22 MR. GREENE: He was asked, "Similarly, do you 23 have any questions about whether Johnson's baby 24 powder contained asbestos?" And he goes on to talk :.6 :45 :1 :.6 :45 :1 25 about the fact that he's received documents, Page 595 1 they're internal documents, from Johnson & Johnson. 2 He's asked extensively throughout the deposition 3 about those documents. 4 Did you receive them -- one second. 5 With respect to his qualifications, Your 6 Honor - 7 THE COURT: Okay. 14 talks about right here. 8 I can see that, what you just said. 9 MR. GREENE: This is page 14. 10 THE COURT: Okay. 11 MR. GREENE: "It seems to me from looking at 12 all the documentation I've seen, that they were 1.6:45:3 1.6:45:3 1.6:45:3 36:45:4 36:45:4 36:45:4 13 getting positive reports." 14 THE COURT: Right. 15 MR. GREENE: "Johnson and Johnson was getting 16 positive reports," and he goes on to talk about the 36:45:5 36:45:5 17 documents. With respect to disclosure, those are 18 the documents that were provided prior to his 19 deposition. 20 THE COURT: And are those the documents that 21 were just admitted? 3 6 : 4 6 :C 22 MR. FINCH: Those were notice to Johnson & 23 Johnson. 24 MR. GREENE: Again, he's not testifying 25 whether those documents are right or wrong. He's 36:46 :C 36:46 :C Page 596 1 testifying about what those documents tell 2 Johnson & Johnson. 3 MR. FINCH: The notice. 4 MR. BICKS: He's not competent to say that, 5 Your Honor. 6 THE COURT: And he says that. He says, "that 7 there's asbestos in the talc or established that 36 :46 :1 36 :46 :1 36 :46 :1 8 there was not asbestos in the talc, that's beyond 9 the scope of my testimony." 10 MR. BICKS: How can he then look at a 11 document - 12 THE COURT: So what is the scope, then? 13 They're arguing this is outside the scope. 14 MR. BICKS: Yes. 15 MR. GREENE: But that's no different, Your 16 Honor, than any other document that he's already 1.6:46:2 1.6:46:3 1.6:46:3 1.6:46:3 17 testified about. He's talking about what the 18 knowledge is that - 19 THE COURT: So we're -- it sounds like we're 20 splitting a hair here. What are you - 21 MR. BICKS: If he's got no expertise to 22 evaluate something, it's outside his area of 36:46:4 36:46:4 23 expertise, how can he look at the document that 24 says, oh, they had notice of something. He's not 25 an expert on it. Page 597 1 THE COURT: No, he's just testifying that 1.6:46:5 2 there were positive reports. 3 MR. GREENE: And that's - 4 THE COURT: I mean, I'll permit that because 5 it was in the deposition. But not as to whether - 1.6 :4 7 : C 1.6 :4 7 : C 6 not as to any of the underlying facts concerning 7 the testing. 8 MR. BICKS: That he's testifying about that, :.6 :47 :1 9 we've already -- we already -- it's like redundant. 10 We've already agreed. I already talked about 11 Blount. Blount's testifying. It's just piling on 12 something that they like. 13 MR. GREENE: This is no different than any 14 other document that he's testified about. 15 THE COURT: You can ask him a question as to 16 the response that he received from his letters, but 1.6:47:2 1.6:47:3 17 we're not going to get into anything considering 18 the underlying tests. 19 MR. BICKS: Because he's not an expert on it. 1.6:47:4 20 Then I'll have to cross him for two hours. I can 21 do that. 22 MR. FINCH: Understood. 23 MR. GREENE: Okay. 24 MR. FINCH: Can I ask him the question, are 25 these the same documents that cause him to question 1.6:47:4 1.6:47:4 1.6:47:5 Page 598 1 whether Johnson & Johnson was telling him the truth 2 40 years ago? 3 MR. BICKS: That's 20 years later. 4 THE COURT: You can ask him about - 5 MR. FINCH: These are documents that he's 6 received in discovery from - 7 MR. GREENE: That were disclosed as part of 8 his deposition. 9 THE COURT: You can ask him about the 10 responses that he received. 1.6:47:5 1.6 :4 8 : C 1.6 :4 8 : C 1.6 :4 8 : C 1.6 :4 8 : C 11 MR. BICKS: The letters, right. 12 THE COURT: Right, from the letters. 13 MR. FINCH: But I've already asked him about 14 that. I'm talking about now the documents they :.6:48:1 :.6 :48:1 :.6 :48 :1 15 didn't give him back then that have become publicly 16 available, does that cause you to question - 17 THE COURT: You mean concerning his own 1.6:48:2 18 research? 19 MR. GREENE: Yes, Your Honor. 20 MR. BICKS: He corresponded with them in 1972, 21 '73, '74, when he's a graduate student. Now they 1.6:48:2 1.6:48:2 22 want to say, oh, we want to show you something that 23 happened 20 years later. 24 THE COURT: Well, it sounds like - 1.6:48:4 25 MR. BICKS: What's the relevance of that? 1.6:48:4 Page 599 1 THE COURT: It sounds like they want to 1.6:48:4 2 question him, and correct me, because I want to be 3 right about this, as to his own research. Is that 4 what you're - 5 MR. GREENE: Yes. These are documents that 6 he's received as part of his state of the art 7 research over the course of his career. 8 THE COURT: So how is that outside the scope 9 of his competency? 10 MR. BICKS: Because his competency is not on 11 testing for asbestos and talc. He's already said 12 it. 13 MR. GREENE: Your Honor, if he - 14 THE COURT: I thought it was a study about 1.6:48:5 1.6 :4 9 : C 1.6 :4 9 : C 1.6 :4 9 : C :.6 :49:1 15 asbestos. 16 MR. BICKS: Right. He talked about what's :.6 :49 :1 17 publicly known. Now he wants to say, well, 18 Johnson & Johnson knew this. 19 THE COURT: Well, I think - 20 MR. GREENE: It goes to Johnson & Johnson's 21 knowledge. 22 THE COURT: Are you asking him about the :.6 :49 :1 :.6 :49:1 1.6:49:2 23 studies? 24 MR. GREENE: We're asking him about what's - 25 MR. FINCH: We're asking him about three 1.6:49:2 1.6:49:2 Page 600 1 documents, three internal documents. 2 THE COURT: From Johnson & Johnson? 3 MR. FINCH: Yes, one from 1973, the same time 4 he was corresponding with them, they didn't give 1.6:49:2 1.6:49:3 5 him, and then two later documents, one from 1976 6 from Mount Sinai. It was about a meeting between 7 Johnson & Johnson and Mount Sinai. And the third 8 document is a letter from Alice Blount. These are 9 documents that they have never provided. 10 THE COURT: Those are all in the same time 11 frame as the Johnson & Johnson? 12 MR. BICKS: Not the Blount stuff. It was 13 15 years later. 14 THE COURT: All right, not the Blount stuff. 15 Restrict it to the time frame. 16 MR. FINCH: Thank you Your Honor. 17 MR. BICKS: Thank you, Your Honor 18 (Resumption of live trial proceedings.) 19 THE COURT: You know, I mentioned earlier that 20 we would on occasion have these little sidebars. 1.6:49:4 1.6:49:5 1.6:49:5 1.6 :50 : C 1.6:50:0 1.6:50:0 1.6:50:0 21 And again, as I said in the thing, you're not to 22 speculate as to -- you're not to speculate as to 23 the reason for the sidebars either. So we 24 appreciate your understanding. 25 And with that, Counsel, you may continue. :.6 :50 :1 Page 601 1 MR. FINCH: Just so I'm crystal clear, the 1.6 :50 :2 2 three exhibits, Plaintiffs' 122, 578, and 361, are 3 admitted, but I can only question Dr. Castleman 4 about the two -- the one from 1973 and the one from 5 1976? 6 THE COURT: The two that are within the time 7 frame of his correspondence with Johnson & Johnson. 8 MR. FINCH: Okay. 9 BY MR. FINCH: 10 Q Dr. Castleman, you basically correspond with 11 Johnson & Johnson back and forth for several years 1.6 :50 :3 1.6 :50 :4 1.6 :50 :4 1.6 :50 :4 12 in the early to mid '70s; right? 13 A Yes. 14 Q I want to show you a document that's been marked 1.6 :50 :4 1.6 :50 :5 15 P-122 in evidence. And this is a document you 16 received relatively recently in discovery from 17 Johnson & Johnson's files? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Was this document provided to you in the early '70s 20 when you were corresponding with Johnson & Johnson? :.6 :51 : C :.6 :51 : C 21 A No. :.6 :51:1 22 Q This is an internal memorandum from D.R. Peterson, 6 :51:2 23 and it copies W. Ashton and R. Miller. Do you have 24 any understanding as to who these people are? 25 A Ashton's the only one I recognize from my 16:51:4 Page 602 1 correspondence with them. I don't really know what 2 their job titles were. 3 Q But these were people that worked with or for 4 Johnson & Johnson? 5 A Sure. 6 MR. BICKS: Can I just ask for the foundation, 7 how he knows who worked for Johnson & Johnson and 6 :51:4 16:51:5 16:51:5 8 have him explain who these people are, if that's 9 going to be his testimony. 10 MR. FINCH: Sure. 11 THE COURT: The Court will sustain that 12 objection. 16:52 : C 16:52 : C 13 BY MR. FINCH: 14 Q How do you know who Bill Ashton is? 15 A Well, from his correspondence with me, he indicated 16 that he was a Johnson & Johnson official when he 16:52 : C 16:52 : C 16:52 : C 17 answered me. Otherwise, why would he be the author 18 of those letters? 19 These other guys, this is -- this one document 1 6 : 5 2 : 1 20 is on the letterhead of Johnson & Johnson. And 21 from the content, it appears to be an internal 22 document of the company describing one of the mines 23 that they got their talc from. 24 MR. BICKS: Again, Your Honor, I would just 16:52:4 25 object on speculation. He corresponded with Page 603 1 Ashton, great, but these other people he would be 2 interpreting this. He doesn't have a foundation. 3 MR. FINCH: I'm not asking him to interpret 4 what they thought or what they meant. I'm just 5 asking him - 6 THE COURT: Well, I'll sustain the objection, 7 then. As of yet, there's no foundation. 8 BY MR. FINCH: 9 Q Dr. Castleman, did you review this document in its 10 entirety when you got it? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And what conclusion did you draw from it? 13 MR. BICKS: He's not -- Your Honor, I object 14 to that on foundation and expertise grounds. Can I 15 voir dire him for just a moment? 16 THE COURT: On expertise grounds? 17 MR. BICKS: On expertise grounds. 18 THE COURT: And you want to voir dire as - 19 MR. BICKS: Yes, on his competence to talk 20 about the topics in these documents. 21 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, I'll - 22 THE COURT: I don't understand -- okay. So 23 that objection, you're saying that these documents 24 are outside his area of competency? 25 MR. BICKS: And he would say that he's not an Page 604 1 expert in testing for talc. So that's my 2 objection. 3 THE COURT: Well, the Court -- are you going 4 to withdraw the question? 5 MR. FINCH: I'm going to withdraw the question 6 and ask a different question. 7 THE COURT: Okay. 8 BY MR. FINCH: 9 Q Dr. Castleman, the author of the document writes, 10 referring to, "Now as for baby powder, the entire 1.6:53:5 1.6 :54 : C 1.6 :54 : C 1.6 :54 : C 1.6 :54 : C 11 thrust of our communication with the FDA has 12 concentrated on asbestos as a harmful fiber-like 13 material." 14 In your communications with the government on 1.6:54:2 15 asbestos back in 1970s, did you talk about asbestos 16 as a harmful fiber-like material? 17 A Yes. 18 Q The author of the memorandum writes, "These talcs 19 contain widely varying amounts of tremolite or 1.6:54:3 1.6:54:3 20 fibrous talc. Our baby powder contains talc 21 fragments classifiable as fiber. Occasionally 22 subtrace quantities of tremolite or actinolite are 23 identifiable optical microscope and these might be 24 classified as asbestos fiber." 25 What do you conclude based on that? 1.6:55:0 Page 605 1 MR. BICKS: Your Honor, objection, expertise 1.6 :55 : C 2 and speculation. 3 MR. FINCH: I'm not asking for his expertise 1.6 :55 : C 4 as a microscopist. I'm just asking for his 5 expertise in reading corporate documents. 6 BY MR. FINCH: 16:55:1 7 Q In your opinion, Doctor, does this put Johnson & 8 Johnson on notice that there's a possibility 16:55:1 9 that - 10 THE COURT: Wait a minute. 16 :55 :2 11 I'll sustain the objection as to expertise, 16 :55 :2 12 but you can question him in his area of expertise 13 as an epidemiologist. 14 BY MR. FINCH: 16 :55 :2 15 Q In your opinion as a public health scientist, would 16 :55 :3 16 this put a corporation on notice of the possibility 17 of asbestos being in its talc? 18 A Sure. 19 Q Mount Sinai was the institution that Dr. Selikoff 16 :55 :3 16 :55 :4 20 was a member of? 21 A Right, the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in 16 :55 :5 22 New York. 23 Q This March 31, 1976, internal Johnson & Johnson 24 memorandum, did they ever send that to you? 16 :55 :5 25 A No. 16:56:0 Page 606 1 MR. BICKS: Again, I would just, Your Honor, 2 object on foundation grounds and the assert -- the 3 implication that there's a responsibility for a 4 company to be sending internal communications to a 5 graduate student in this context. There's no 6 foundation. 7 THE COURT: There's no question before the 8 witness yet. And you're objecting to a document 9 that you stipulated to? 10 MR. BICKS: There was a question, I think. 11 THE COURT: Okay. What's the question? 12 MR. FINCH: I don't remember asking a 13 question, but if there is a question, the question 14 was, have you seen this document recently, Doctor. 15 A Yes. 16 Q And the Mount Sinai group is the group that Irving 17 Selikoff was head of? 18 A Right. 19 Q And this document relates to a meeting between 20 people from Johnson & Johnson and people at Mount 21 Sinai? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And the Mount Sinai group indicated that over the 24 weekend, the Selikoff group had been studying six 25 new samples of talc and reported that all of them Page 607 1 contained minimal amounts of asbestos. 2 In your opinion as a public health scientist, :.6 :57 :1 3 would that put a company on notice there was 4 potentially asbestos in talc? 5 A Sure. 1.6 : 5 7 :2 6 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, I don't have any 7 further questions. 8 THE COURT: Now, could counsel approach, 1.6 : 5 7 :2 1.6 : 5 7 :3 9 please. 10 (A bench conference was held outside the 1.6 : 5 7 :4 11 hearing of the jury.) 12 THE COURT: We had told the jury that they 13 would be here till 5:30. But I'm assuming cross 14 will take longer than half an hour. 1.6 : 5 7 :5 15 MS. WEGLARZ: Yes. 1.6 : 5 8 : C 16 THE COURT: So do we want to let them go and 1.6 : 5 8 : C 17 begin again in the morning? 18 MR. FINCH: Early in the morning, if we could, 1.6 :58 : C 19 Your Honor. 20 MS. WEGLARZ: Maybe that same time. 21 MR. FINCH: 8:30? 22 MR. BICKS: That's fine with me. 1.6 : 5 8 : C 1.6 : 5 8 : C 1.6 : 5 8 : C 23 THE COURT: Okay. Since we are -- tomorrow is 1.6 :58 : C 24 Friday. 25 MR. FINCH: Yes. And we're stopping early. :.6 :58 :1 Page 608 1 THE COURT: Yes, we're stopping at 3:45, so :.6 :58 :1 2 yes. 3 All right. Thank you. 4 (Resumption of live trial proceedings.) :.6 :58 :1 1.6 : 5 8 :2 5 THE COURT: So plaintiff has done their direct 1.6 : 5 8 :2 6 examination of Dr. Castleman, and now it's 7 defendants' time to do cross-examination, which we 8 had spoken earlier about keeping you until 5:30, 9 but their cross-examination, of course, will take 10 longer than 30 minutes. So we're going to let you 11 go, with the request that you come back again 12 tomorrow morning at 8:30, because we're going to be 13 stopping early tomorrow. 14 So now we have the admonishment, which you'll 1.6 : 5 8 :5 15 all have memorized before the trial is over. 16 When you are together in the jury room, during 1.6:59:0 17 any recess, you may discuss the evidence among 18 yourselves, so long as you reserve your final 19 opinion in this case until you have heard all of 20 the evidence and the case is submitted to you for 21 your decision and verdict. 22 You must not permit anyone other than your 1.6 :59:2 23 fellow jurors to discuss the case with you. And if 24 anyone attempts to discuss the case with you or in 25 your presence, report that fact immediately to the Page 609 1 Court's bailiff, and this would include family 2 members when you go home. 3 Furthermore, during any recess or adjournment, 4 you must not talk to any of the attorneys, parties, 1.6 :59:3 5 or witnesses about anything. You should not even 6 pass the time of day with them in the courthouse or 7 elsewhere. And in addition, the Court also has the 8 admonition, no research about any of the parties, 9 products, or people involved in the trial. 10 And with that, you are released and we'll see 11 you again tomorrow morning at 8:30. Thank you very 1.7 :00 : C 12 much. 13 (Whereupon, the jury exited the courtroom.) 14 THE COURT: Now, were there some scheduling 15 matters that the parties wanted to discuss before :.7 :00 :1 :.7 :01 : C 16 we leave today? No, that's tomorrow. There are 17 other -- I thought I heard Ms. Farinas say there 18 was something. 19 MS. FARINAS: This evening we're going to meet 20 on Mrs. Lewis' deposition. Any matters that we 17:01:1 21 can't resolve in a meet and confer we would like to 22 take up when we close early tomorrow. 23 THE COURT: All right. 24 MR. FINCH: And just for highlight, I've 25 already given them the exhibits, the actual 17:01:2 17:01:2 Page 610 1 exhibits that we plan to use for Dr. Rigler . We 2 sent you an e-mail. 3 MR. BICKS: Yeah, we got them. 4 MR. FINCH: And I 'll get you the slide deck 5 tomorrow morning first thing. It shouldn't be any 6 real -- 7 MR. BICKS: Is it the same, modified? 8 MR. FINCH: Basically. Modified. And so if 9 they have any issues, they can take those up after 10 Dr. Castleman's off the stand. It's my 11 anticipation that the direct of Dr. Rigler is an 12 hour and a half to two hours. And they - 13 hopefully they would finish his cross tomorrow 14 afternoon. But if not, Dr. Rigler is available to 15 come -- to stay over the weekend and finish on 16 Monday. We'd obviously prefer not to have to, you 17 know, deal with that. 18 THE COURT: How much time -- well, thank you, 19 Dr. Castleman. 20 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 21 THE COURT: I'm just trying to get a feel for 22 our schedule tomorrow. 23 MR. FINCH: What do you have, an hour and a 24 half cross? 25 MR. BICKS: Probably a little longer than Page 611 1 that. I should be able to do it in two, but if 2 he -- 3 MR. FINCH: He's -- 4 MR. BICKS: I know. 5 THE COURT: And then BMW? 6 MS. WEGLARZ : Does he have opinions , does 7 Rigler have any BMW opinions? 8 MR. FINCH: Oh, I was asking about Castleman, - 7:02:3 - 7:02:3 - 7:02:3 - 7:02:3 - 7:02:4 9 not -- 10 MS. WEGLARZ : Castleman, yeah, I'll have -- 11 MR. BICKS: I thought you meant Rigler. 12 THE COURT: We're beginning with 13 Dr. Castleman. 14 MS. WEGLARZ : Oh, on Castleman, we' re going - 7:02:4 - 7:02:4 - 7:02:4 -1. 7: 02: 4 15 to -- 16 MR. FINCH: No, no, no, Castleman. Let's take 17 them one at a time. 18 MR. BICKS: No, not two hours. 19 THE COURT: I'm trying to get a feel for when 20 to schedule breaks. I like to kind of let the jury -1. 7: 02: 5 - 7:02:5 - 7:02:5 21 know. 22 MS. WEGLARZ : Cross on Castleman. 23 THE COURT: So if we begin at 8:30 -- 24 MR. FINCH: We'll be done by 9:30. 25 MR. BICKS: Definitely by 10. - 7:03:0 - 7:03:0 - 7:03:0 " 7:03:0 Page 612 1 MS. WEGLARZ: Yeah, definitely by 10. 2 MR. FINCH: And then we'll probably take a 3 break then. Then put Rigler on. My direct will 4 probably run to the lunch hour. And if -- I'm not 5 going to jam you. If you don't get done, we'll - 6 THE COURT: Do we have anybody besides 7 Dr. Rigler and Dr. Castleman tomorrow? 8 MR. FINCH: No, Your Honor, we don't. We 9 have -- the next order of batting order of stuff, 10 we would have at some point Melody Lewis' 11 deposition, which would need some rulings - 12 possibly need some rulings from Your Honor on. 13 That's what we're meeting and conferring on. 14 There are two depositions related to Johnson & 15 Johnson, one of them is relatively short, that I 16 don't know if we've had a meet and confer yet. 17 We're going to try and meet and confer sooner 18 rather than later on Alice Blount. 19 And then the Hopkins, we've agreed on the 20 transcript. I haven't looked at the page/lines to 21 see if there's any significant disagreement on 22 that. 23 THE COURT: Well, I saw a lot of page and line 24 designations and the objections. Do the parties 25 want a ruling on those tomorrow? Page 613 1 MR. FINCH: For which witness? 2 THE COURT: Well, I saw Hopkins, and there was 3 somebody else I just looked at the - 4 MS. FARINAS: Melody's is part of the meet and 5 confer tonight, and we'll bring the issues that we 6 can't resolve to the Court tomorrow afternoon. On 7 Hopkins, I don't know that we've had a -- we just 8 got it last night. 9 THE COURT: There weren't very many as to 10 Dr. Hopkins from Johnson & Johnson. Most of them 11 were Kerr, I think. 12 MS. FARINAS: Well, they're counter 13 designations we haven't looked at to make an 14 objection yet. And given the fact that they're 15 limited -- they're the doctrine of completeness. 16 But there's an agreement in place, so we're working 17 through that. 18 THE COURT: So you don't need anything from 19 the Court? 20 MS. FARINAS: Until tomorrow afternoon, 21 possibly. 22 THE COURT: All right, thanks. 23 MR. HARNEY: The question about going Rigler 24 over to Monday, isn't Dr. Ellenbecker's deposition 25 on Monday? Page 614 1 MR. GREENE: It is. 2 MS. WEGLARZ: So let's -- we can talk on the 3 side about this. 4 THE COURT: All right, then. 5 (The proceedings concluded at 5:05 p.m.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 615 1 STATE OF INDIANA 2 COUNTY OF HENDRICKS 3 4 I, Debbi S. Austin, a Notary Public in and for 5 said county and state, do hereby certify that on the 6 17th day of October, 2019, I took down in stenograph 7 notes the foregoing proceedings in the aforementioned 8 matter; 9 That said proceedings were taken down in 10 stenograph notes and afterwards reduced to typewriting 11 under my direction; and that the typewritten 12 transcript is a true record of the proceedings; 13 I do further certify that I am a disinterested 14 p e r son in this cause of action; that I am not a 15 relative of the attorneys for any of the parties. 16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 17 hand and affixed my notarial seal this 17th day of 18 19 20 21 22 My Commission Expires: 23 July 13, 2023 24 25 $ $5 525:11 $60 378:10 $625 525:9 0 0.001 506:6 507:9 0003 423:8 0008 422:4 001 404:20 405:2,6 506:11,25 507:2 005 423:1 008 422:20 1 I 338:19 368:8 372:2 378:15 381:4 404:18,19 432:20 435:6,8 443:2 444:8 462:23 463:1,3 479:22,23 518:1,7,10,14 574:7 1.000 516:13 10 358:11 433:10,13 448:21 459:19 460:8,10 472:3 479:16, 19 482:1 487:16 492:9 573:21 611:25 612:1 10.000 340:5 585:14 10-micron 472:1,2 10037 521:24 101 378:17 105 576:2 10:15 376:9,11,19 I I 346:12 543:17,21 545:9 12 346:12 440:23 541:5 543:17, 21 545:9 572:22 573:21 12-year-old 346:17 120 381:7 382:21 122 362:1 591:19 592:12,18 601:2 128 543:21 13 440:23,24 567:16 574:3 130 387:8 132 581:16 14 594:19,21 595:7,9 15 343:24,25 344:4 358:11,13 378:7 383:19 397:1 398:14 419:23 420:14,16,17 428:22 447:3,10 448:22 528:15 550:5 557:23 572:12 578:1 600:13 15-year 396:21 150 343:7 154 449:8 501:25 16 383:19 494:2,13 1700 556:21 17th 387:17 18 325:13 399:15 511:23 512:8, 10 180 557:1,9 1890s 381:12 1891 412:11 1894 382:13,18 1898 345:8 565:15,18,25 1900s 384:22 1906 566:18 1907 566:18 1911 566:18 1917 566:2 1918 566:1,2,9 1920s 383:17 426:13 567:7 1924 345:11 565:25 567:9 1927 568:3 1928 568:3 1930 345:15 568:16 569:10 1930s 345:23 426:14,19 428:1 568:10 570:5 1931 559:23 1935 571:25 1936 571:25 1938 572:1 Index: $5..1977 1939 573:11 1940s 346:3 581:23 1942 560:19 1943 576:18 1944 573:18 582:2 1949 573:23 582:2 1950 574:25 1950s 345:5 346:3 1952 574:25 1955 430:13,15 575:3 576:23 1960 338:5 346:22 576:24 577:13 1960s 329:6 341:24 1962 560:20 578:1 1964 347:4 348:13 349:10 560:5 577:13 578:8,10 1965 347:11,19 427:13 558:25 581:12 582:8 1966 413:16 414:10,14,17 415:11 416:16,17,18417:15 423:11 427:11,24 428:10 429:3, 12 1967 356:21 357:23 416:24 432:19 583:8 584:13 1967ish 357:3 1969 432:19 1970 433:1 553:17 578:23 585:2 1970s 390:22 444:20 587:5 604:15 1971 359:22 360:10,17,20 386:13 387:1 391:11 393:9 396:12,21 553:18 561:6 585:3,5, 7 586:23 588:10,23 589:1 1972 387:17 585:10 586:3,5 589:10 598:20 1973 363:15 372:4 374:12 555:24 561:16 600:3 601:4 1974 371:15 450:11 1976 364:14 398:18 557:23 582:6 585:12 600:5 601:5 605:23 1977 561:20 1978 582:7 1979 384:21 393:20 394:15 433:6 1982 556:22 1983 394:16 1984 554:21 1985 553:22 1986 371:20 1987 396:21 1989 356:22,25 397:7 450:12 500:16,20 1990 367:15 368:2 1991 365:22 366:10 367:15,16 371:16 1993 447:3,7 485:19 1998 367:11 1999 447:10 1:00 439:2,7 2 2 333:5 368:2 370:6,11 385:7 462:25 463:4 552:24 572:24 588:23 589:3 20 461:14 487:15 492:9,15 593: 12,20 598:3,23 20,000 480:4,9,10 481 484: 18,24 485:4 2000s 450:16 2003 357:2,3 383:18 2004 557:8 2005 555:1 2011 447:10,12 2012 317:9 447:14 2016 501:22 2017 398:18 2018 327:11 20th 345:7 357:17 21 572:12 22-year 574:2 22-year-old 571:3 228P 514:6,17 515:19 542:5,6 543:2 23 484:21 235 574:1 24 326:18 25 369:4 413:18,19 420:8,16 422:22 423:4 428:6 594:2 26 567:17 568:20 29 557:23 295 587:8,23 589:6 296 587:8,23 590:16 3 3 333:6 393:8 3,000 341:9 352:19 422:8 538:21 30 326:19 342:19 368:22 440:4 487:15 492:11,13 500:18 608:10 30,000-foot 495:20 30-step 384:9 300 408:24 568:18 306 587:8,22,23 588:9 308 587:8,23 588:21 30s 567:7 31 605:23 317 587:9,23 32 494:2,13 577:7 325 382:10 422:7 33 346:25 567:13,17 576:25 577:7 34 420:3 350 581:24 361 591:19 592:13,19 601:2 392 372:21 538:16 3:45 608:1 3:45ish 440:11 Index: 1978..650 4 4 400:1 40 343:4 365:7 373:2 487:14 554:6 571:6 598:2 40-pounds 423:22 400 538:19 566:12 40s 428:1 572:16 42 400:7,8,15 402:20 45 440:4 48 512:10 4:00 411:15,20 440:12 4Q 584:3 5 5 370:7 383:6 403:4 487:16 528:6,11 50 324:22 325:22 326:20 329:10 349:14 386:23 387:1 388:14 393:10 402:15 408:6 443:5 492:7 50s 349:16 359:8 428:1 581:23 52 443:5 53 415:19,24 55 340:15 578 591:19 592:13,18 601:2 5:05 614:5 5:30 377:6 411:6 607:13 608:8 6 6 381:2 410:5 528:15 572:25 60 325:22 349:14 358:10 492:11, 13,15,17 60s 342:20 344:7 356:18 359:3, 8 383:18 421:3 428:1 581:23 64 347:20 494:2 648 510:11 539:19 649 510:9 511:5 650 540:20 7 7 433:2,3,13 70 325:22 492:10 700 382:14 70s 336:12 342:18 354:7 359:3, 9 365:1,19 371:2,3 374:13 386:12 393:4,12 421:3 554:10 601:12,19 71 363:14 422:19 572:15 71-year 422:18 71-year-old 422:20 72 360:17 363:14 73 598:21 74 598:21 75 315:20 76 579:7,11 8 8 460:10 80 492:10 80s 356:18 359:3 365:20 829 514:25 515:12 89 568:22 8:30 607:21 608:12 609:11 611:23 9 9 433:6,13 90 314:6 353:24 496:6 90s 359:3 450:15 9471 508:13 539:6 9476 513:5 543:14 95 339:15 350:8 391:23 465:22 562:20 98 339:15 99 500:23 9:30 611:24 A A-M-P-H-l-B-O-L-E 466:8 abbreviate 507:14 abide 320:14 ability 323:13 326:1 abnormal 487:21 566:7 567:18, 19 absence 544:1 absolutely 387:18 443:6 467:17 490:9 534:13 abstracted 576:14 abundance 436:12 academic 443:22 445:21,23 447:13 Academy 578:17 581:9,16 accept 401:6 546:17 accepted 447:7 591:4 access 472:23 accident 333:19 464:8 account 566:22 accounted 585:14 accounts 562:20 accumulate 505:2,5,18 533:11 accumulated 505:6 accumulating 507:2 accurate 415:25 565:3 accusation 431:16 accuse 431:17 accused 388:1 acknowledged 586:11 acknowledgments 545:10 act 464:3 acted 414:9 423:17 429:2,13 acting 493:17 494:10 573:7 actinolite 339:19 363:1 406:3 466:11 604:22 action 387:25 Index: 7..adopted actions 319:6 activated 486:3 actively 353:15 560:14 568:21 activity 329:12 actors 463:23 acts 453:12 actual 408:11 437:16 536:18 609:25 actuary 566:14 ADA 426:23 Adam's 453:8 add 344:9 418:19 448:8 481:8 added 339:14 366:2 394:18 481:18 482:15 498:16 addition 317:24 322:19 329:9 330:3 438:14 523:12 533:17 535:16 544:20 550:1 559:17 609:7 additional 554:22 567:23 address 443:1,2 593:3 adenocarcinomas 541:6 adequate 321:20 370:18 adequately 320:15 adjacent 438:19,23 adjournment 609:3 administration 340:4 378:13 414:18 561:6 585:4 administrative 433:8,11 admissible 522:14 591:20 admission 415:17 admit 515:8 admits 592:21 admitted 387:23 444:8 508:19 513:11 515:12 522:12 553:2 588:2 595:21 601:3 admonishment 376:12 437:22 549:14 550:4 608:14 admonition 609:8 adopt 392:4 adopted 391:4 adult 351:6 advantages 362:5 adversaries 563:5 adverse 337:2 aerodynamics 531:11 aerosol 514:5 aerosolized 537:15 aerosols 470:1 affect 502:24 affected 483:14 558:2 affects 447:5 Africa 346:25 446:7 563:14 576:25 578:19 afternoon 317:19 422:14 430:4 439:15 440:9 441:23 442:17 551:19 552:8,9 610:14 613:6,20 afternoons 418:11419:17 age 560:25 567:12,16 572:15 agencies 340:2 350:14 355:7 371:7 406:20 407:20 561:5,8 564:1 585:8 agency 336:10 340:20 357:9 367:3 385:1,5 561:7 585:1 586:16,19 agents 480:16,17,21 481:8,10 482:16 agree 324:15,20 325:12 341:20 350:15 380:3 440:5 452:20 501:14 519:4,5 526:19 530:1 532:8 544:24 545:2 agreed 592:14 597:10 612:19 agreement 440:2 550:14 613:16 agrees 338:10 341:14 342:3 355:22 ahead 376:13 393:25 394:1 452:18 487:2 511:14 543:11 565:15 aid 381:8 air 336:23 337:5 348:8 349:4 353:14 354:21,25 355:6 401:9, 14 421:19,21 422:5 435:7,10,13 436:17 453:6,9,11 456:12,20,24 458:14,19,22 460:16,17,20,24 461:1,5,12,14,15,21 462:6,7 463:6,16 465:11 497:12 503:13, 18,19 505:3 531:1,8 553:14 570:13 580:7 airbags 385:14 airborne 401:10 531:5 airspace 462:22 464:24 473:4 476:7 airspaces 471:13 477:8 airtight 453:21 airway 457:7,8,16 458:24 460:15,22 471:11 490:2 airways 453:10 456:8,17 457:5, 14,16 458:11 483:9 alarm 387:10 393:5 alarming 572:7 alerts 429:6 Alice 365:22 373:14 600:8 612:18 alive 375:9 allegations 379:25 allergic 336:22 allotted 314:6 allowed 340:14 425:17 alluded 413:12 alternative 323:18 ambient 354:21 355:6 421:19, 21 503:18 amends 406:23 America 358:17 426:25 570:2 American 346:8 426:19 566:21 567:25 568:4,11 573:19,23 574:8 582:1 amosite 339:13 401:4 466:10 517:17 amount 339:4 340:10 342:3 345:21 354:20,22 355:5 364:4 386:5 395:10,11,12 405:4 517:25 535:22 536:15 amounted 413:17 amounts 324:4 368:4 382:17 Index: adult..anxious 405:1 489:14 604:19 607:1 amphibole 350:6 365:15 366:21 368:8 401:3 402:4 404:18 405:19 406:2,17 466:7,8, 12 467:20 487:12 516:1 520:8 539:14,16 amphiboles 413:10 524:23 525:1 analogy 497:14 498:2 analysis 367:24 368:21 394:12 516:1 542:5 590:8 analytical 392:11,15,22 analyze 366:22 559:6 anatomical 451:6 anatomy 445:8,9 446:4 474:20 and/or 491:8 anesthetic 470:7 aneuploid 490:3 aneuploidy 487:20,21 488:2 animal 399:7 445:9 467:23 468:13,14,22 469:14,17 507:18, 20,25 511:17 512:16 513:24 517:13,15 518:16 538:9 543:11 545:3 548:1 animals 445:5 446:15 468:18, 25 469:3,9,13 470:5,12,18,23 481:4 507:21,24 508:7 510:4 511:8,21,24 512:8,12,25 514:11, 14 538:6 547:11,12 549:2 annals 581:16 Anne 379:19 announced 573:9 annual 565:13,17,18 566:17 anonymously 449:6,9 answering 589:13 answers 404:11 anthophyllite 339:20,24 356:10 374:24 406:3 466:11 anticipated 314:20 anticipation 610:11 antioxidants 489:15 anxious 379:20 anybody's 525:20 anymore 338:24 546:9 apologize 334:12 528:1,10 apparent 591:3 apparently 370:24 435:11 541:7 590:17 appearance 438:12 appeared 566:24 576:17 578:18 appearing 573:17 appears 544:2 602:21 apple 453:8 applicable 347:21 applications 448:19,21 584:10 applied 523:5 563:17 584:7 apply 316:14 329:13,14 330:1 applying 316:13 508:6 appreciates 314:18 appreciation 570:9 approach 362:12,17 443:15 546:23 550:10 592:11,16 607:8 approximately 330:5 April 585:5 area 324:2 328:21 357:8 387:2 396:15 408:25 456:18 459:8 505:11,12 522:5 554:7 577:11 594:7 596:22 603:24 605:12 areas 438:18,23 argue 350:4 arguing 596:13 argument 331:1 351:13,14 352:10 353:20 372:20 373:20 arguments 317:5 349:22 437:12 Arizona 317:17 armpits 475:15 Arnold 343:1 386:2 442:2,7,22 arrangements 411:7,13,18 array 415:20 466:18 493:2,12 Index: anybody's..asbestos-containing art 408:12 425:16 564:19 593:14 599:6 article 347:20 365:22 366:10,24 367:2,4,9 387:15 508:24 521:25 522:2 580:21 582:8 articles 340:6 351:23 501:25 521:20 565:6 568:9 577:14 581:7,21,24 artist 477:3,5,8,11,16 490:21,25 491:6,13,15,22,24 492:4 494:23, 25 asbestiform 342:22 357:10 362:13 406:5,20,23 467:6,9,11, 15 520:3,7,12,25 521:2 523:2 asbestos 319:5 321:15,19,21 322:7,16,18 323:8,16 324:4 325:17,21 326:1,4,7,8,11 327:15,16,17,22 328:5,7 329:3, 5,7 330:15,21 331:6 332:3,16,25 335:1,5,11,17,22,25 336:1,5,6, 11.13.16.25 337:3,17,18,23,25 338:1,4 339:4,5,8,11,16,18,23, 25 340:1,5,8,10,17,22 341:1,6, 11,13,16,21,23 342:4,6,8,15,17, 19.21.22 343:6,9,12,14,22 344:1,11,20,25 345:10,13,19,21 346:4,11,15,24 347:1,3,14,21, 23.24.25 348:6,8,14,18,21,23,24 349:2,3,5,8,11,18,23 350:1,3,5, 6.7.11.17.21.25 351:12,15,19,24 352:2,7,12,15,16,19,21,22 353:5,6,9,12,13,17,19,22,23,25 354:3,5,10,11,13,14,17,18,20, 23.24.25 355:3,5,8,12,16,17,19, 23.25 356:2,3,5,7,10,12,14 357:4,6,14,15,22 358:4,6,18,21 359:10,23 360:11,12,22,23,24, 25 361:2,5,6,8,10,13,16,22 362:13,18,22 363:3,13,16 364:4, 13.16.19.22 365:4,14,16,18 366:1,2,3,21,23,25 367:5 368:5, 9.13.22.24 369:1,5,8,9,12,15,17, 19,20 370:1,4,5,7 371:11,23 372:10 373:5,15,16,18 374:1,3, 5.7.23.24 381:20,21,24 382:17, 24.25 383:2,3 384:23 385:18 386:3,9,17,21 387:3,14,16,19 388:1,6,16 389:12,15,25 390:7 391:22 392:11,24 393:3,13 394:12,14,25 395:14 396:2,3,23 397:10 399:10,11,16400:10 401:1,2,3,8,10,19,20,25 402:1,5, 17 403:20,24 404:2,4,18,25 405:9,16,19,20,23,24 406:12,13, 16.21.22.23 407:15,18,19 408:5 409:1,13,18,19,21 410:15413:8, 10414:14415:6,15,17,18417:9 418:24 420:18,21 421:9,10,11, 17.18.21 422:4,17 423:13 425:15 427:1,16,19 428:10 434:24 436:25 437:5 444:18 446:13,14,17,23 447:5 450:11 451:14,22,25 452:3 453:13 454:10,13,17 455:8 456:25 458:14,21 461:25 463:3 465:4,5, 6.11.12.14.15.16.17.19.20.21 466:3,5,6,13,19,20,24,25 467:1, 4,5,10,12 468:4 469:1,8,16,22 470:9 471:4 472:6,7,13,22 473:6,25 474:7 475:21,25 476:1, 9.22.23 478:12,15 479:3 480:20, 24 481:9 482:15,20,22,24 483:16 487:8,12 488:6,25 489:4, 5 491:5,6 492:14 495:4,15 496:10,12,15 497:1,11,12,16 499:2 500:16 501:1,4,5,8,15 502:5,9,12,22,25 503:3,8,12,20 504:20 506:6 507:21 510:8,23 511:24 512:2,4 514:18 516:22, 24 517:5,16,19,22,25 518:7,9,13 520:17,25 522:5 523:13,23 524:3,4,11,15,19 527:10,18,20 529:22 530:3,14,18,21,25 531:7, 18 532:1,4,7 533:7,17 535:12 537:11,14,25 538:4,25 539:14, 17 541:10 542:6,9,14 543:1,10 544:3,11 548:24 549:4 553:16, 17,24 554:7,11,19 555:5,8,15, 20.23 556:1,3,15,16 557:13,20 558:5,10,13,15,19,22,24 559:7, 19 560:7,9 561:10,11,18 562:4, 18.20 563:5,7,9,11,18,21,24 564:9,15 565:8,9,12,21 566:6,13 567:3,8,14,15 568:7,12,19 569:11,12 570:7 571:21,23 572:9,22 573:15,20 574:21 575:4,21,23 576:12,20 577:8,12, 15,20,25 578:4,13,21,23 579:6, 16.18.23 580:7,13 581:2 582:12, 13.20 583:4,6,9,20,24 584:5,7,8, 20 585:2,7,11,12,14 586:17 587:2 588:16,17 589:3,15,18 590:10 591:4,9 593:20 594:24 596:7,8 599:11,15 604:12,15,24 605:17 607:1,4 asbestos-containing 318:2 337:9 348:2 423:15 430:21 434:24 436:20 582:16 asbestos-induced 523:19 asbestos-related 342:13 352:7 354:15 447:25 451:7 555:12 561:14 562:11 asbestosis 337:12,19 340:11 345:12,13,20 347:23 351:16 446:18 453:14 558:18 559:23 560:8,22 566:24 567:21 568:5, 14,20,23 572:3 573:12 574:3 576:9 577:19,22,23 582:12,14 Ashton 362:8 516:12 601:23 602:14 603:1 Ashton's 601:25 asks 316:5 496:5 aspect 523:15 aspects 479:4 554:20 563:19 assembling 563:15 assembly 432:22 433:4 434:1 435:8 assert 606:2 assessment 394:20 assignment 556:10 assistant 418:10 433:8,11 445:24 association 346:8 426:19,24 447:14 568:1,4,11 573:19,24 574:9 581:3,6 582:2 assume 528:18,20,24 536:23 546:6 562:13 assumed 566:22 assuming 404:17 423:6 607:13 assumption 404:17 Astoria 578:15 atlases 474:17 atmosphere 385:24 attached 425:3 attack 379:23 attacked 391:12 attacks 325:7 attempt 327:2 331:23 470:17 attempts 608:24 attend 412:21 attended 561:12 578:12 attention 333:18 375:24,25 429:22 543:13 582:22 attorney 378:9 450:12 542:2 attorneys 435:4,6 438:9 512:21 549:25 609:4 attracts 465:3 attributable 394:24 attribute 571:17 575:22 attributed 567:1 577:25 audio 438:21 August 416:18 417:15 432:19 588:23 Australia 578:19 Austria 519:19 author 521:15 556:19 568:24 581:21,25 602:17 604:9,18 authorities 568:13 authority 561:9 authorized 398:3 authors 509:5 514:10 automatically 320:22 autopsied 576:9 autopsies 573:1 autopsy 464:9 567:20 availability 537:19 average 420:17 422:5,17 423:3 532:3 award 450:4 awards 449:17,20,21 aware 320:20 347:16 367:17 510:16 512:17,24 517:9 519:17, 23 520:7 574:2 awry 412:24 B B-R-O-D-Y 442:22 baby 318:2 320:5 323:6,8,13,14 327:17 329:8,10,14,17,22,24 Index: asbestos-induced..balloons 330:9,11,14,15,22 342:4,7 344:7 354:5 355:4 356:2,16 359:10 360:11,13 361:14 362:12,20,24 363:18,19 364:14 365:12,13 367:8 368:13 369:10,16,19 372:11 381:11,15 382:13,18 383:20 390:6,7,9 398:14,23 408:20 410:14,16,18 502:11 510:17 514:5 519:13 541:18 542:22 543:14 587:4 589:3,15, 18 590:4 591:9 594:23 604:10, 20 Bachelor 445:4 back 314:3 317:20 320:3 325:23 336:12 345:2,4,6,8 349:14 354:7 357:16 358:25 359:5,6,8,13 363:14 364:5 365:5 367:9 374:10,13,16 375:21 376:10,19 377:2 379:9 381:10 382:18 383:17 385:16 391:10 392:17 396:12,21 399:3 411:9 414:15 416:21,25 417:6,8,19 420:20 421:4 426:13 431:20 441:22 444:25 445:12 446:20 461:19 471:16 476:4 479:11 482:18 488:16 493:24 495:19 516:9,10 517:13 528:14 543:6 546:20 550:5 551:8 553:12,19 558:9 559:22 576:2 588:19 590:19 593:10 598:15 601:11 604:15 608:11 background 355:6 386:6,8 395:15 401:11,13 445:2 479:24 497:10 503:14,16,17,24 504:2,3, 5,11 505:3,15,23 506:5,19,20 507:9 532:1 535:10,14,15,16 536:2 544:21,25 552:19 553:10 558:12 559:3 backgrounds 382:8 backups 486:11 bacteria 456:24 bad 341:23 344:19 567:3 570:22 bailiff 314:1 376:20,25 378:17 379:1,3,7 439:3,14 441:11,19 550:6 551:6 609:1 Baker 430:13 balance 489:15,18 ball 349:15 374:25 381:2 balloons 453:21 Baltimore 553:21 586:25 ban 427:16 556:16 585:11 bandages 381:8 bands 484:17,23 Bank 556:12 562:15 banned 371:19 563:8 585:12 bar 459:15 460:8 472:1,2 barber 399:2 barbers 398:25 399:22 barely 459:23 460:6 Barry 364:21 551:21 552:1,11 base 417:25 baseball 349:13,16 based 344:22,25 380:10 388:13 396:25 403:5 436:16 437:8 448:3 488:22 497:4,9 549:9 560:23 604:25 basic 345:24 373:11 547:16,17 548:23 basically 366:16 483:23 497:1 502:5 534:9,10 554:1 558:23 571:3 601:10 610:8 basis 348:4 394:24 483:22 582:18 594:7 Battelle 545:12 batting 612:9 BCEE 436:9 beach 375:19 bear 407:12 410:6 beating 457:20 beautiful 414:25 bedrocks 357:10 Beethoven's 388:25 began 328:3 430:15 begin 314:5,11 360:8 379:13 412:3,5 430:2 440:24 441:25 551:9,17607:17611:23 beginning 342:8 381:4 391:10 445:25 563:22 565:23 566:3 572:12 573:11 589:2 611:12 begins 499:15 behalf 315:2 317:2 367:12 370 25 41019 41218 442 8 552:2 Belfast 578:1 belief 591:16 believed 365:6,7 belong 465:2 belonged 464:7 belts 385:14 bench 316:10 546:24 592:24 607:10 Bicks 377:12,24 378:2,4,18,24 379:14,15,18 400:20 413:5,12 415:7 420:20 422:7 444:5 542:15 553:1 564:11 587:10,16, 19,24 591:21 592:3,15 593:4,9 594:9 596:4,10,14,21 597:8,19 598:3,11,20,25 599:10,16 600:12,17 602:6,24 603:13,17, 19,25 605:1 606:1,10 607:22 610:3,7,25 611:4,11,18,25 big 317:11 345:15 346:24 347:7 349:9 360:16 384:2 425:6 455:15 459:20 462:17,18 464:23 498:1 531:21 558:5 559:1 578:7 bigger 425:6 biggest 373:13 558:3 Bill 369:3 516:11 602:14 billion 335:24 336:6 504:20 505:8 billions 386:2 395:17 422:16 505:2,5,6,15,17,19,20 506:21, 24,25 507:5 538:21 bind 489:4 binding 491:8 binds 524:15 biological 343:6 biologist 343:3 biology 445:14 446:4 451:6 479:5 481:2,12 biopersistence 523:25 524:4, 9,23 Index: Baltimore..bones biopersistent 520:23 524:7 biopsy 327:10 birth 318:3 bit 314:20 316:17 317:7 318:14 319:9 331:9 336:21 351:4 360:4 368:17 384:1 385:16 393:17 401:18411:2,5413:11 415:8 423:18 425:6,7 428:19 432:4 436:4 440:13 444:25 445:1 490:13 507:17 557:15 561:24 577:3 black 453:16,18 471:15 blame 353:3 blaming 431:14,24 blank 420:4 blood 461:6,10,16,17 473:13, 14,18,19,20,22,24 475:3,6,7,9 489:14 Blount 365:22,23 366:9,24 367:11 369:7 370:19,22 371:9, 12,15 372:6,9 373:14 408:9,16 597:11 600:8,12,14 612:18 Blount's 597:11 blue 434:13,20 484:7 BMW 318:19 323:20,21,25 330:23 355:9 430:7,9,10,12,19, 21 431:5,6,8,13,15,21,22,24 432:1,4,7,11 433:18 434:17,22, 25 435:9,12 436:4,12,15,18,22 437:4,9 611:5,7 BMW'S 431:10 board 421:15 436:10 500:9 Boca 443:3 bodies 341:4 402:13 475:2 body 326:13,17 330:1 332:18 336:24 358:12 401:19,20 406:25 474:18 475:4,8,15 481:4 489:8 body's 325:24 boil 564:21 boilers 584:8 bolts 491:1 bomb 369:2 bones 321:4 326:17 445:11 book 347:11,19 418:6 554:14, 18,19 555:2,10 556:20 559:2 575:25 576:2 581:8,9 books 521:13,16 581:24 border 564:2 born 381:16 414:17 borrow 498:11 bosses 359:15 Boston 442:24 448:17 botch 366:14 bottle 320:2 321:9 351:3,5 358:20,23 359:8 bottles 359:2 364:17,19 403:12, 14,21,23 404:25 bottom 321:8 329:23 366:22 390:25 401:21 540:25 541:8 Boulevard 443:2 bound 487:19,25 488:6 Boundy 394:8 Bouquet 357:25 Bova 378:19 box 321:8 328:7 329:4,22 579:25 boxed 427:8 boy 424:7 braces 424:16 bracket 466:12 bragging 581:3 brain 461:13,17 brakes 335:16 421:18 brand 498:14 Brazil 563:14 bread 418:18 break 314:7,9 376:8,18 413:23 425:24 437:20 537:18 546:5 549:14 550:5 612:3 breaking 407:16 breaks 611:20 breath 453:5,9 456:20 460:25 461:14 536:9 569:6,8 breathe 325:7 338:23 421:21 532:4 570:22 breathed 353:17 breathes 530:6 breathing 325:8 337:1 339:9 345:19 454:3,19 530:10 531:17 536:7,8 565:12 bridges 328:10 Bridget 376:9 546:17 briefly 330:23 376:14 412:9 553:13 562:16 bring 341:18 354:19 373:19 377:2 439:17 440:21 451:16 613:5 brings 392:20 400:1 447:20 495:6 Britain 565:13 566:17 568:17 572:1,23 576:15 578:19 579:4 British 341:1 345:9 509:10 567:9,11,23 568:2,9,13 569:15, 22 570:4 574:1,13 577:17 broadcasting 438:17 Brody 343:1,13 377:8,14,18 386:2 442:2,4,7,22,23 451:5,13 500:7 521:24 525:15 526:3,7 529:17 534:16,25 535:7 546:6, 15 549:12 558:17 Brody's 422:14 bronchiole 457:15 brothers 412:11 brought 315:9 388:2,4,23 389:1,3 578:17 Brunswick 381:6 brush 424:8 brushed 424:2 bubbled 491:18 build 413:22 building 354:25 355:1 421:6 430:14 buildings 431:1 bumps 463:13,20,21 bunch 373:8 424:7 474:5,8 481:19 559:22 Index: book..called bundle 473:11 474:3,4,8,10,13 bundles 474:12 475:12 burden 410:6 Bureau 426:20 566:10 buried 388:23 burn 570:21 business 381:6 384:3 385:21 387:8 businessmen 557:17 busy 413:18 441:23 buy 320:1 349:15 498:10 583:5 buying 322:21 bypassing 511:13 C C-A-S-T-L-E-M-A-N 552:11 C-l-L-l-A 457:19 cabinet 328:15 Cain 580:24 calculate 422:18 California 448:17 call 321:3 326:3 334:19,21 336:17 376:11 380:25 391:18 401:17 407:19 408:2 419:18 422:22 442:1 443:9,11 453:6 462:20,22,25 464:9 466:25 503:14 521:2 524:2 529:21 530:2 551:18 552:20 583:15 called 325:2,19 336:11 337:11 338:2 339:18 345:15 348:18,19 350:19 356:22,23 366:12 367:7 368:20 370:2 373:21 381:5 383:25 384:5 391:5 401:3,19 404:18 417:21 424:14,24 425:4 427:7 430:23 432:20 434:14 442:8 445:13 449:12 453:10,24, 25 457:19 458:7 459:7,16 462:10,18 464:1,22 465:23,25 466:7 467:6 474:15,16 475:11, 17 480:11 481:22 483:5,7,19 484:17 485:1,18,22 486:6,20,22 487:20 488:14 489:6 490:16 494:3 511:10 521:3 523:1,5 552:2 553:24 554:19 565:20 567:14 568:5 574:17 calling 342:15 calls 334:19 355:14 C am els 498:7 cam era 456:4 516:1 C anadian 566:21 c an cer 316:23 324:24,25 325:1, 7 326:1 336:10 337:20,21,22,25 338:7,22 340:21,23 342:19 343:5,12,20 344:14,16 346:5,10, 12,15 347:21,23 349:8 350:25 355:19 367:3 380:5 385:1,6 402:9,11 431:14,16,18446:18 453:15,24 469:24 477:19 478:13,20,22 479:3,6,10,12,13 480:12,16,17,19,21,25 482:12 485:24 486:11,15 488:3 489:23 490:4,14 491:5,21 494:18,20 496:5 497:1,20 498:13,14,21 533:13 557:18 558:18 560:22,23 571:21,22,23 572:2,5,9,15,17, 21.25 573:8,16,20,22 574:5,10, 21.25 575:4,6,19 576:11 577:24 578:6 580:16,17 581:19,22 582:12 584:24 585:17 586:14,20 589:13 cancerous 477:22 cancers 338:13,17 486:14 496:7 560:9,13 573:4,6 574:4,5, 11,12,13 576:23 cans 516:13 543:7 capable 516:23 517:6 518:11 524:6 539:1 545:1 589:12 cap acity 522:7 cap illaries 473:18,23 cap illary 473:18,19 capitalistic 319:19 capsule 385:9 capture 456:23 car 385:9,10 421:18 430:10 579:25 carbon 456:19 461:18,20 463:2, 8 464:21 c arc in o can cer 478:21 carcin o g en 336:9,11,13 342:15,17 346:5 480:20 482:20, 24 486:2 498:16,18 573:7 carcin o g en ic 540:9 carcin o g en s 480:15,16,21,22 483:14 C ard iff 388:5 care 324:3 483:13 562:23 590:2 cared 387:7 care er 444:19 445:21,23 448:25 449:18 525:10 599:7 careful 356:11 409:2,9,15 571:18 590:8 carefully 315:19 320:25 397:18 408:16 carelessly 319:12 care ta ke r 317:4 carpet 460:19 461:3,16,24 462:9,10,11,15463:7,10,19 464:18 472:11,15,17,18473:10, 25 476:1,2,4,5 carried 444:21 472:20 476:11, 19 482:14 576:18 carries 461:16 carry 475:8 cars 320:25 385:15 carton 498:15 cartons 498:10 case 314:21,22 315:2,8,10,22 316:3,7,11,21 318:12,18,25 323:20 324:13 325:3 326:14 331:17,24 332:15 333:11,13,25 335:9 338:9 339:12 343:2 361:25 367:22 369:22 375:4,21 376:2,14 379:25 380:8,16,25 383:5,14,16 384:14,16 389:2 390:15 396:20 397:16 400:8 401:7,15 402:25 403:11 404:9 412:15 413:1 422:12 428:2,8 430:8 431:14,23 433:20 436:13, 24 437:9,16,23 438:1,5,6 450:12,14 491:6 500:16 526:22 527:1 530:18 533:22 541:6 549:17,18,20,22 553:24 554:1 555:16 557:19 567:9 568:12 571:24 572:3 573:3,17 583:12 590:3 608:19,20,23,24 cases 359:12 382:14 422:9 450:14,17 504:8 507:24 532:11, 12 533:3 538:21 557:12 562:10 Index: calling..cell's 567:23 568:8 572:2,10 576:4,7, 21,25 577:22 578:1 579:7,21 580:5,9 583:18,21 C ashm ere 357:25 cast 424:13,14 426:11 casting 417:24 425:5,8,14,18, 24 426:4 C astlem an 364:21,25 377:15, 21 378:1 551:22 552:1,8,11 564:7 586:24 588:8 601:3,10 603:9 604:9 608:6 610:19 611:8, 10,13,14,16,22 612:7 C astlem an 's 552:24 588:24 610:10 casts 381:13 cat 457:9 cau g h t 411:5 420:25 464:2,5 causation 518:21,24 caused 324:3,18 325:17 326:19 332:25 333:16 339:4 341:6 342:19 345:12 346:11,15 347:14 349:23,24 350:3 353:21 355:19, 25410:18415:4429:10431:13 446:13 448:1 468:2 491:5 498:14 558:22 571:21,23 573:15 591:15 causing 343:15 431:17 480:16, 17,21 489:16 491:7 497:16 516:23 517:6 518:11 524:6 539:1 545:1 573:22 589:13 caution 436:12 cautioned 363:7 cautious 341:4 cavity 511:12 ceiling 460:18 462:7 ceilings 385:19 cell 333:18 343:3,15 385:13 445:14,16 446:4 451:6 457:19 458:15 462:15 463:20,24,25 464:3 477:19 479:9,12,14 480:13,15,18 481:21,22 482:11, 12 484:9,12 486:3,17 490:8,22 491:18 492:5,6,20,21 493:13,15, 16,17,22,24 494:8,10,21 495:1 498:17 550:2 cell's 487:13 491:10 cells 325:25 445:14,15,18 447:6 453:22,23,24,25 454:1,6,9,16 455:8 456:16 458:1,16 461:4,18 462:10,17,19,21,23,25 463:1,3, 4.13.14.18 464:20,21,23 465:9 468:9 469:2 472:11,12 473:14, 20,22 475:8 476:16 477:18,22 478:12,13,24,25 479:1,2,17,21, 25 481:4,5,6,7,15,16,18,23 482:9,16,23 483:14 484:1,4,5,6 486:5,7,22,23 487:4,7,10,11,24 488:3,25 489:22,25 490:3,22,23 491:14,16,25 492:1,19 494:1,3, 6.8.12.13.18 Celotex 427:8 cement 385:19 562:19 584:8 center 335:17 374:4 473:16 481:21,25 484:9 571:12 centimeter 422:5 503:21 506:1, 10,12 507:10 536:4,6,12 centimeters 536:10 central 334:7 centrifuge 366:19 371:16 century 345:6,7 357:17 certainty 452:22,23,24,25 certifications 397:6,8,9,11,12 certified 436:8,9,10 chain 343:18 chairman 444:15 447:11 chairmen 556:24 chalky 355:14 435:16,21 challenge 586:8 challenging 390:17 chamber 470:4,6 chambers 470:2,3 chance 334:5 358:17 375:14 449:16 526:21 528:16 Change 405:23 495:12 526:17 changed 318:13 571:12 changing 507:17 Chapter 347:18 381:2,4 385:7,8 393:8 400:1 403:4 410:5 chapters 380:21 581:24 characteristics 524:20 525:1 characters 473:12 charge 525:6 Chart 408:12 499:19 500:8 525:18 564:25 cheaper 417:5 check 361:3 chemical 322:24 324:17 333:4 356:8,9 465:1,3 553:11,13 571:5,17 chemicals 342:16 344:21 464:11 571:11 chemistry 481:12 chemotherapy 326:21,24,25 375:8 Cherry-picking 409:24 Chest 454:2,5,8 475:18 478:8 505:10 532:12,19 566:4,5,7 567:18 569:7 Chester 357:18 Chicago 421:20 chief 557:21 558:7 565:14 566:18 children 330:3 334:17 China 358:14,15,25 372:5 383:18,20 393:19 395:22 396:8 Chinese 358:18 chlorine 570:21 Choice 322:2,3 349:12 361:11 choices 360:21 chooses 321:14 Chose 393:23 584:13 Chris 446:6 577:3 chromosome 485:6,7,9,10 486:1,21 487:22 chromosomes 344:13 484:17, 19,20,21 485:3 486:18 487:9 491:11,13 chrysotile 339:13,15,23 343:14 350:4,8,10,11,18 351:25 354:17 391:22 465:16,21,23 467:19 Index: cells..Cleveland 487:24 488:1 510:8,24 512:8 517:16,17,19 539:3,15 541:5 Chuck 315:3,6,8,12,15,17 317:1,6 318:6,16 334:4 338:14 358:23 375:11 Chuck's 317:15,24 Church 441:8 583:23 Cigarette 337:23 346:10 368:25 369:1,5 486:12 490:1 496:7 498:3 cigarettes 337:22 498:11 CIH 436:7 Cilia 457:19,20 458:1,8 460:10 464:17 483:10 circle 481:21,25 circulated 554:15 circumstances 583:14 Cited 367:2 560:6 cities 421:19 citing 568:9 citizens 371:20 394:17 City 347:6,9 368:11 503:19 578:11 Claim 393:5,7 400:8 431:11,12 Claire 430:5 clarify 538:25 546:11 classic 323:2 469:19 classifiable 604:21 classified 362:25 363:3 604:24 Clean 328:20,21 362:12,15,17 403:8 414:5 491:20 cleaning 414:4 cleanup 363:11 Clear 381:18 385:20 400:11 430:18 475:1 526:7 601:1 cleavage 373:18 521:3,9 523:3, 14,17 cleaved 521:8 Clerk 433:3,5 592:17 Cleveland 421:20 client 429:13 client's 413:2 Clinic 490:17 495:6 496:4 clinical 569:8 Clip 433:17 clone 494:25 Close 362:5 609:22 closely 397:1 closer 493:12 Closing 317:5 437:12 Clothes 347:2 579:24 clumped 491:18 co-counsel 314:25 316:8 521:13 coach 334:21 coached 334:23 coast 450:1 coatings 421:16 Code 438:16 cohort 372:21 373:3 Coke 323:3 cold 458:3 collaborating 482:13 collapsing 463:17 colleague 369:3 430:6 colleagues 447:18 collect 456:1 488:10 507:3 555:2 collected 481:20 collective 363:24 collectively 318:24 collects 476:8 college 334:9,21 371:14 Collegium 556:18,19 557:5 color 480:7 491:23 494:24 Colorado 388:7 445:4,12 Columbus 445:21 column 455:18,19,20 511:7,16 514:3 523:11 543:20 combination 466:15 494:22 495:2 combine 333:20 combined 337:23 comfortable 423:23 commerce 321:12 322:8 426:20 commercial 401:3,25 402:1,4, 22 413:10 430:25 commercially 465:22 466:9 Commission 556:8 585:9 common 321:5 332:20,22 361:4 367:17 382:4,5,9,15,19 392:17,25 393:2 398:13,20 399:18,20 402:24 403:3 406:15 410:2 415:23 421:12 519:11 572:5 commonly 324:24 390:6 communicate 593:10 communication 362:21 604:11 communications 604:14 606:4 community 328:1 335:4 345:11 346:4 555:25 558:2 565:7 573:15 companies 318:21 319:7,17 321:23 322:16 333:2 350:9 369:18 370:25 371:7 374:1 427:6,7,9 545:19 558:5 559:12 563:4,13 566:21 567:2 580:24 company 321:14,23 332:19,20 333:3,5,6 349:10 356:16,17,19, 25 358:1 369:1 374:6 381:5,20, 22,23,24,25 387:7 388:1,2,18 391:13 393:19 396:24 412:12 423:19 427:7 430:10,11,12,22 431:17,19 434:10 566:15 602:22 606:4 607:3 company's 381:7 comparative 563:10 compare 398:21 404:13 422:23 478:6 com pared 354:21 Index: client..conclusion comparison 423:12 579:14 compartment 476:10 compensable 568:14 573:8 compensated 562:13 compensation 568:15 compete 563:8 competence 603:19 competency 594:8,10 599:9,10 603:24 competent 596:4 competing 448:15 competitive 448:23 complete 377:17 480:22 482:20 493:2 completed 327:1 379:12 completely 382:18 473:8 completeness 613:15 complex 468:4 490:13 complicated 369:21 405:15 component 425:12 432:23 449:5,24 composites 396:16 compounds 335:20 585:11 computer 549:15 concede 350:16 concentrated 362:22 604:12 concentration 391:16,18,20 392:1 403:19 506:18 535:25 concentrations 370:15 541:10 concept 319:8 496:20 concepts 495:20 498:21 concern 393:3 399:24 588:16 concerned 394:19 530:7 589:11 conclude 350:3 389:24 392:18 604:25 concluded 345:12 614:5 concludes 376:6 conclusion 362:11 573:14 603:12 conclusively 346:24 571:22 575:20 condense 484:15 condensed 484:18 condition 318:10,15 464:12 487:20 488:2 548:24 567:22 581:15 conduct 344:22,25 349:19 438:16 453:11 545:19 conducted 431:13 512:16 517:14 568:18 conducting 453:10 456:8,17 confer 439:23 440:2 609:21 612:16,17 613:5 conference 347:7,19 349:9 478:18,19 509:14,15 546:24 561:17,23 578:7,11,14,16 579:2 580:12,18 581:7 582:9,20 592:24 607:10 conferences 561:12 conferring 612:13 confident 362:15 confidential 550:14 confirm 388:13 589:5 confirmed 357:14 388:15 389:10,15 397:4 confirms 393:8 confuse 506:24 confusing 318:25 Congratulations 443:7 Congress 555:22 connected 438:3 connection 575:2 consequence 401:22 considered 420:22 421:3 584:23 consistency 572:17 consistently 390:6 constantly 457:20 494:18,19 constricts 325:8 constructing 560:16 construction 432:8 433:14 466:23 563:2 583:1 Constructor 432:12 Constructors 318:19 323:21, 25 330:23 355:9 430:8,9,12,19, 22 434:25 435:12 436:23 437:5 consult 555:11 consulting 556:6,10 consumer 318:22 381:22 421:14 585:9 consumers 319:24 321:24 322:2,20 323:11 361:18 585:15 contact 346:13 579:16,21 580:5 583:22 contacted 563:3 contacts 348:4 582:18 contained 322:15 436:25 484:8 530:18 554:22 583:5 594:24 607:1 container 369:13 419:6 containers 369:10 contaminant 339:19,23,24,25 366:4 contaminants 323:1 339:22 517:20 contaminated 323:16 356:7 369:17 410:15 579:25 content 322:7 466:24 467:10 475:20 520:17,25 602:21 contents 387:18 context 398:2 409:16,25 433:19,20,21 606:5 continue 323:15 447:13 481:8 567:7 591:8 600:25 continued 328:24 329:16 416:15 429:22 continues 433:10 continuing 589:11 continuously 396:22 contract 426:7 545:14 contractor 430:24 434:12,18, Index: conclusively..corporations 19 contractors 434:4,8,10 contrast 341:22 348:20 contribute 344:3 582:3 contributed 497:13 556:16 contributing 333:7 control 326:15,18 399:15 412:24 420:24 427:3 475:9 479:12,14 480:11,13,14,17,18 483:4,24 485:14 493:23 510:9 512:13 553:15 557:4 579:13 controlled 480:1 565:22 controls 479:9 493:15 579:19 controversy 362:14 convenient 412:19 conversation 450:25 converted 563:12 convince 576:10 convinced 360:18 convinces 331:19,20 cookie 352:25 cool 390:17 409:24 cooperation 560:17 copied 362:8 copies 367:15 508:14 581:5 592:12 601:23 copy 441:14 515:1 528:7 553:3, 4 581:13 core 408:24 corn 361:15,22 corner 491:15 cornstarch 323:15 329:25 361:12,14,16,18,22 363:11,17, 19 corporate 553:25 555:7 559:4 594:4 605:5 corporation 322:13 346:19 348:14 412:10,11,18 550:17 551:12 584:13 605:16 corporations 319:11,18 324:11 363:22,24 555:4 correct 442:18,19 443:9 447:22 448:1 459:10 467:13,14,17 485:6 489:2 495:17 496:13 502:16 506:2,4,7 507:8,12 510:1 513:25 516:15,18,19 517:8 518:4,13,18,22 519:20 520:5 521:25 523:8 529:5,7,8,13 531:17,23 534:12 536:8,17 539:1,2 550:15 599:2 correction 387:16 correctly 544:5 545:21 correspond 601:10 corresponded 598:20 602:25 correspondence 601:7 602:1, 15 cosmetic 354:3 367:4,19 371:19,24 372:4 383:6,7,8,11,13 386:18 394:25 395:3,14 398:7 408:19,20 409:4 501:22 502:2 519:6,18 544:3 cosmetologists 398:25 costs 563:10 costume 334:13 cough 351:4 458:5 Council 556:6 counsel 334:2 376:23 384:25 385:18,23 386:15,20 389:20 390:14 391:23 395:4 397:23 411:17 435:14 439:12 529:17 535:2 537:10 546:22 551:20 600:25 607:8 count 352:3 374:19 463:12,21 471:22 counted 574:13 576:23 counter 613:12 countries 555:18,19 561:22 562:22 564:5 578:20 country 448:16 449:25 450:22 538:21 569:21 586:22 couple 334:6 336:1 358:24 360:5 397:22 413:20 416:21 418:11 444:24 451:22 454:25 456:16 459:5 464:1 476:15 485:20 490:25 492:10 495:20 525:4,5 544:15 567:21 572:2 580:22 593:18 court 314:2,6 316:5 334:2 353:11 376:5,6,22 377:1,17,20, 23 378:1,3,6,12,19,21,25 379:2, 5,9 410:22 411:6,17,18,22 412:1,3,4,5 429:20 430:3 437:19,21 438:7,19 439:5,7,10, 15 440:8,18,21 441:2,7,12,14,21 442:4,5,9,11 443:16 444:4,7 451:10 452:9 454:25 455:6 499:12,20,25 508:15,19,22 513:6,10,17,20 515:2,3,4,8,12 522:11,17,19 525:17,21 527:12 533:24 534:20,24 535:2 542:13, 19,21 546:4,8,11,14,17,20,22 547:16,19,25 548:5,8,10,13,14 549:12,13 550:5,8,11,16,20,24 551:4,8,11,20,23 552:3,5,25 553:2,3,6 564:12 587:12,15,22, 25 588:1,2,6 592:1,5,9,18,21 593:7 594:6,18,21 595:7,10,14, 20 596:6,12,19 597:1,4,15 598:4,9,12,17,24 599:1,8,14,19, 22 600:2,10,14,19 601:6 602:11 603:6,16,18,22 604:3,7 605:10 606:7,11 607:8,12,16,23 608:1,5 609:7,14,23 610:18,21 611:5,12, 19,23 612:6,23 613:2,6,9,18,19, 22 614:4 Court's 376:8 609:1 courthouse 332:21 609:6 courtroom 315:24 341:14,20 342:5 352:5 376:21 379:8 381:2 384:17 388:17 393:6 394:6 403:5 404:1 405:12 410:5 421:11 438:18,22,24 439:4 441:20 505:11 550:2,7 551:7 562:7 570:13 609:13 courtrooms 562:1 courts 450:6,21 cousins 356:5 cover 462:19,21 478:17 481:13 485:19 505:11 526:6 569:10 581:14 covered 464:25 473:6,8,25 526:6 covering 319:15 501:10 covers 421:15 569:23 coveted 329:19 crammed 481:24 Index: correct..cubic Cranberries 407:5 create 333:20 501:18 created 336:12 342:16,20 561:6 585:1,10 creates 338:22 483:18 524:15 creating 557:24 creation 561:4 563:25 credit 387:24 cribs 320:5 criminal 557:12 cristobalite 348:20 criteria 523:15 580:9 critical 421:4 criticize 403:13 criticized 392:5 critique 448:7 crocidolite 339:13 401:4 466:10 517:17 cross 321:4 377:12,18,25 597:20 607:13 610:13,24 611:22 cross-examination 499:15 500:4 522:15 526:1 608:7,9 crossed 495:9 crossing 320:23 crown 348:19 417:2,23 420:6 424:1,3,11,17 425:13,24,25 crowns 328:10 413:23 417:10, 19 418:5,12 419:14 420:8 425:17 426:8,14,17,22,25 crumble 534:8 crumbled 505:10 crunch 336:7 crust 335:12 crystal 329:22 601:1 CSI 332:7 401:18 CSP 436:8 cube 506:3,10 536:5 cubes 506:14,16 cubic 354:24 422:5 503:21 506:1,10,12 507:10 536:6,10,12 cuff 475:5 culminated 532:18 culprit 403:1 575:21 cumulative 332:17,24 496:21, 22 498:25 499:2 544:24 cupcake 352:23,24 curable 325:9 cure 325:10 curly 466:1 472:4 current 362:13 586:10 curriculum 443:21 552:16,17 cut 328:7,15,20 349:4 399:2 400:20 413:23 417:9 419:5,7,20, 21 420:14,15 456:6,9,13 460:14 461:7 475:4 477:1 cuts 419:10,23 cutting 336:18 355:3 413:17,20 418:23 420:7,16 423:1,2,14 CV 443:21 449:8,17 502:1 552:24 553:8 556:5 cycle 326:23 D D.C. 334:18 D.D. 362:7 D.R. 601:22 Dad 334:19 Daddy 334:19 damage 343:15,16,20,22 344:13 480:18 486:7 489:1,12, 17,21,23 490:2 491:1,2,7,16 492:2,21,22 493:13 495:16 damaged 486:2 488:16,18 493:3,6,9 damages 343:17 375:7 danger 320:18 321:2,5,6 346:2 421:1 570:7,25 dangerous 319:23 320:10,11 321:13 322:1 329:5,7 335:1,22, 23 336:16 344:21 346:1 350:5 352:22 353:2 366:5 370:9 401:5 582:20 dangers 319:25 320:8 345:23 dark 484:23 Dartmouth 371:14 388:10 data 402:14 dated 588:22 dating 384:22 daughter 317:15 415:1 486:22, 23 487:10 491:14,25 492:1,5 daughters 330:4 day 324:21 326:18 328:2 329:10,11,12,16 330:1 339:5 364:18 370:12 396:1,16 398:13, 15,17,20,22 410:13411:2,12 417:20 424:2 428:5,6,15,17 429:1 432:23,24 433:24 434:7, 21 435:2,3,5 438:11 440:13 498:13 535:22 536:11,13,16 580:3 584:22 585:16 609:6 day-to-day 382:4 days 420:3,4,7 433:23 435:2 dead 359:24 deadly 320:19 340:1 deal 421:9 498:2 569:18 584:20 610:17 dealing 557:3 562:24 deals 351:21 death 325:10 338:21 464:11 486:6 566:16 deaths 560:21 567:1 574:2 debunk 393:7 debunked 393:5 decades 410:3 413:7 415:13 444:14 445:18 466:25 469:5 490:18 494:16,17 495:3 498:12 528:22 decaying 424:5 December 585:7 decide 355:15,18 361:21 389:1 548:15 decided 334:21 decides 548:14 deciding 382:2 Index: cuff..Delorean decision 315:10 380:9 608:21 decisions 359:21 deck 610:4 declare 564:2 decline 566:20 deep 531:19 569:8 deeper 460:13 462:3 deepest 414:24 defect 322:23 323:9 defects 322:22 defend 349:21 379:22 defendant 323:20 429:21 550:13 557:19 587:15 defendants 316:9 318:18 322:12 324:7 333:12 334:2 338:25 353:3 374:1 376:1 377:23 379:13 410:22 547:25 defendants' 539:6 608:7 defense 344:16 373:13 457:5 458:7,13 463:9 483:9 486:9 508:13 513:5 521:24 531:22 defenses 335:8 457:3,10 483:11,12,15 486:16 490:5 494:17 511:13 defies 382:19 defined 466:24 definition 466:21 479:10 480:12 definitions 407:2 degree 445:5,8 452:21 degrees 537:19,20 554:4 delay 570:25 delayed 570:10 Delco 353:4,13,18 400:7 401:8 402:2,19 432:3,5,17,18 433:23 434:11,16 435:20 528:25 529:9, 10 delete 440:23 deleting 441:7 deliberation 438:5 549:22 Delorean 345:3 359:5 Delphi/delco 413:6,14 415:6, 12 416:17,19,21 429:10 Dement 394:10 demonstrate 352:6 demonstrated 339:5 density 366:12,18 370:21 403:19 dental 318:19 328:18 335:19 339:17 344:6 346:13 347:22 348:13,16,22 349:5,18 352:12, 15412:12 413:17,20414:7,13 415:21 416:3 417:14,24 418:10, 24 419:2,4,20 420:12 422:24 423:2,16,19,21 424:24 425:8,9 426:6,19 427:5,6,9,23 428:4,18, 20,22 429:12,14,15 dentist 327:16 328:3,4,9,12,17, 22 413:24 414:4 415:11 416:22 417:18 423:10 425:13 dentist's 413:16 415:20 416:19 dentistry 428:11 dentists 412:14 414:14 417:4 423:24 426:24 427:10,22 428:2, 3,11,12429:6,15 deny 348:21 509:19 department 390:9 426:20 433:3,7 444:15 446:3,9 447:12, 17 585:4 departments 556:25 depends 468:19 470:14 516:24 depose 433:12 deposed 415:19 deposit 388:10 deposition 400:4,18 408:13 432:17 433:24 435:3 439:20 526:22,25 527:3,24,25 528:4 529:6 536:24 591:24 593:2,5 594:15,19 595:2,19 597:5 598:8 609:20 612:11 613:24 depositions 435:17 439:21 612:14 deposits 357:14 384:23,24 393:19 394:11 398:11 depression 473:15,16 d escribe 366:15 535:13 567:22 577:6 589:4 describing 497:21 602:22 designations 612:24 613:13 designed 430:19 desk 449:15 destroy 360:24 detail 424:13 556:9 578:9 detailed 389:9,13 details 455:25 531:2 565:2 detect 370:5 464:24 detectable 343:25 370:10 387:18 detected 374:23 396:2,3 510:25 516:2 detection 372:8 515:23 determination 367:25 392:11 determine 333:12 370:3 390:24 508:2 Detroit 412:12 develop 341:10 426:16 453:13 493:10,23 developed 366:11 380:22 426:21,25 511:8,21 514:12,15 557:18 developing 338:20 387:22 428:2,12 468:19 561:21 562:21 development 549:8 develops 343:23,24 445:17 453:14,15 479:7 495:16 537:8 538:4 device 328:12 362:12 381:24 455:16 diabetes 469:17 diagnosed 325:21 326:5,11 329:17 344:2 422:9 528:21 diagnoses 526:8 diagnosis 325:14 326:20 327:10 diagnostic 566:4 diagram 453:3 474:16 diagrams 474:19 Index: Delphi/delco..discuss diaphragm 325:6 die 338:19,20,24 359:17 414:23 424:16,25 486:7 489:23 490:3 491:16 died 560:20 567:12,17 572:4,13, 20,22 576:9 579:10 582:7 dies 354:1 difference 549:3,5 differences 408:5 diffraction 370:2 516:17 542:5 543:1 diffuse 461:5 diffuses 461:15 dig 335:14 dime 405:3,5 dioxide 456:19 461:18,20 463:2,8 464:21 dire 379:19 380:4,17 414:21 431:7 593:22 594:10 603:15,18 direct 347:25 377:17,20 442:13 512:10 552:6 582:14 608:5 610:11 612:3 directed 532:19 direction 464:3 directly 415:14 437:12 511:12 dirty 329:13 disabled 567:16 disadvantages 362:6 disagree 405:7 disagreement 612:21 disaster 557:25 disclosed 598:7 disclosure 591:24 594:9,13 595:17 discontinued 391:21 392:2 discovered 458:20 465:3 discovery 367:7 559:5,11,15 581:2 591:14 598:6 601:16 discriminate 454:12 502:6 discuss 376:14 437:22,25 438:6 439:17 548:13 549:18 561:13 591:25 608:17,23,24 609:15 discussed 324:19 discussion 371:18 379:6 411:25 430:1 500:3 570:5 disease 318:6,17 324:22 326:4, 9,10,12,14 327:13,18 332:4,5,25 333:7 338:2,3,4,13 339:3 340:11 341:8,16 342:13 343:3,12 344:3 345:12,19 346:22,23 348:23 351:19,24 393:23 414:22 415:4 422:13 444:19 445:16,17 446:2, 16 447:2 450:11 451:22,25 452:3 453:14,15 454:17 467:13 468:3,19 469:9,14,15,17,18 470:23 474:18 476:21 478:16 479:6 496:19,22 497:4,7,16 499:1 502:25 503:4,5,20,24 504:4 520:15,18,24 521:10 523:23 524:6 526:8 530:5 537:8 538:4,7,17 539:1 549:9 554:2 558:17 559:8,19 565:20 568:8, 14 569:5 573:9 575:17 579:5 diseases 337:10,11 427:20 446:14,17 448:1 451:7,14 453:13 465:20 467:3,4,16 469:1, 4,16 470:15 471:4 481:3 497:1 518:21 522:7 523:19 556:20 558:13,15,22 561:14 562:11 572:5 dish 481:5 dishes 481:6 disparage 418:14 dispute 324:14 328:6 330:13,24 338:25 341:19 344:17 348:17 373:6 420:19 432:11,13 disputed 330:18 331:4 disputes 330:15 dissertation 554:11 distance 353:14 distinctions 407:10 520:20,22 distracted 334:15 distributed 420:19 427:5 476:18 484:25 distributes 423:19 d isturb 355:12 disturbing 331:6 353:16 355:16 divide 459:25 463:4 482:9 484:1,4,10,13 488:25 494:1,12 divided 380:20 divides 490:8 dividing 479:17 482:10,11,16 484:6 486:3 487:4 491:10,11 diving 315:17 division 486:17 DNA 480:2 481:23 482:5,7,11 483:7 484:6,16,18 487:17,19,25 488:5,6,7,10,13,15,16,17 489:4 490:24 491:1,2,7,8,16,17 492:22,23 494:19 524:15 doctor 327:14 338:9 346:9 351:12,17 418:11 442:20 443:4, 9,13,17 444:11 449:1,16 450:6, 18 452:1,5,10,14,19454:18 459:1 465:13 467:18 474:2 476:19 487:5 490:7 495:8,13 496:5,14 497:14 499:4 513:22 515:16 521:18 526:8,10 539:5, 11 540:18 541:16 542:17 543:13 544:12 546:21 552:17,20 553:22 560:5 561:25 564:14 572:1 574:23 575:22,24 605:7 606:14 doctoral 552:22 553:23 554:21, 24 doctorate 443:10 445:13,19 doctors 326:6 327:19 332:16 338:16 341:18 342:18 347:8,13 349:25 386:13 566:3 568:6 572:7 577:16 doctrine 613:15 document 353:23 359:20 371:13 397:25 398:1,3 408:22 409:20,25 410:1 443:13,18 508:17 515:15,18,22 539:5,7,19, 22 541:17 542:1,9,10,13,17 543:20 552:14 594:2 596:11,16, 23 597:14 600:8 601:14,15,19 602:19,22 603:9 604:9 606:8,14, 19 documentation 551:1 595:12 documented 583:21 documents 355:24 359:13,14, 17,18,25 360:5,21 361:21,25 364:7 365:8,16 367:7 369:18 Index: discussed..Drumke 372:14 374:12 397:24,25 408:6 409:15 556:14 557:3 559:4,17 591:14 592:10 593:12,13,18 594:4,13,25 595:1,3,17,18,20,25 596:1 597:25 598:5,14 599:5 600:1,5,9 603:20,23 605:5 dog 457:9 Doll 346:11 574:18,20,22 575:3, 15 576:22 domain 365:10 door 361:4 455:17 488:3 doors 332:22 585:5 dose 496:15 497:2,5,6,9,13 498:24 502:22 503:7,10 519:12 dose-response 503:4,5 doses 350:13 dots 357:13 428:25 Dotson 436:4 doubt 332:7 doughnut 353:1 doughnuts 473:13,15 downstate 445:7 dozen 555:18 dozens 493:4 drag 504:14 dramatic 563:23 dramatically 478:7 Drano 320:1,2,10 draw 603:12 drawer 346:7 dressers 398:25 dries 425:11 drink 320:11 385:25 dripping 497:19 drive 320:25 340:15 drop 329:21 366:21 498:1 drops 497:19,22 Drumke 377:8 412:1,2,4,6,9,10 429:20 439:8 513:19 515:7 534:23 535:1 550:9,15,17,19,22 551:3 drywall 585:11 due 329:12 513:15 550:23 567:14 duly 442:9 552:3 dumping 333:4 durable 421:12 dust 348:9 355:14 435:16 470:1 534:11 561:23 565:12,22 567:14 569:2,11 570:10,12,19 578:4 579:24 580:2 dusts 566:6 dusty 435:21 470:4 566:11 duty 322:25 331:16 438:4 DX-9476 541:18 545:7 dying 375:7 491:15 560:8 572:14,16 577:24 dynamics 531:16 E e-mail 378:11,22,25 610:2 e-mails 398:1 ear 440:4 earlier 326:22 331:10 358:9 379:11 471:13 472:2 474:7 477:12 501:25 507:19 516:16 523:23 538:2,23,24 542:2 558:17 572:11 600:19 608:8 earliest 561:15 early 317:20 336:12 342:18 365:1 371:1,3 378:6 384:22 386:12 411:4,12 440:3 444:20 450:15 457:2 471:2 554:10 587:4 601:12,19 607:18,25 608:13 609:22 earned 525:11 earth 335:13 384:2 easier 353:23 528:6 easily 323:14 534:8 536:14 easy 361:19 409:24 459:19 460:8 468:17 507:22 534:3 537:22 eater 464:23 eating 326:13 economics 585:23 Edd 430:7,8 edition 554:20,24,25 editor 582:3 editorial 568:5,12 573:9,12,20, 24 574:8,15 editorials 569:15 581:25 582:1 editors 556:24 educate 345:22 educated 570:9 educating 570:6 education 553:8 educational 445:2 553:10 effect 332:24 341:18 427:19 547:14 548:22,24 570:10 586:5 effective 457:5 482:6 effects 553:16 569:11 570:23 571:10,14,16 587:2 588:16 efficient 417:5 efficiently 314:21 316:18 effort 586:6 efforts 315:7 556:16 eight-hour 422:5 423:3 electron 370:16 371:2 372:7 392:13 455:20 456:2 460:7 473:9 Electronics 353:4 electrons 455:21,23 456:2 element 322:25 elemental 466:14,23,24 467:10 520:24 elements 466:15,18 elephant 457:9 Ellenbecker's 613:24 else's 490:1 embarrassed 385:10 emergency 585:6 Index: drywall..entire emeritus 447:15,16 emphasis 562:23 emphasized 570:8 574:15 emphasizing 582:10 employed 348:5 560:14 568:21 584:4 employee 434:11,16,17 employees 432:12 561:18 employer 353:4 employment 413:6 EMPS 523:1 empty 497:18 enclosed 367:14 end 320:16 333:11 375:4,21 381:12 396:1 400:17 410:13 440:13 455:15 458:23 460:15,22 464:1 470:6,24 471:11 474:23 475:5 538:6 543:19 568:2 ended 498:17 ending 440:3 ends 326:1 endurance 314:18 endure 316:25 endured 326:21 energy 532:11,18 engaged 347:25 582:14 engineer 436:11 553:11 571:3 engineering 553:14 England 397:15 571:25 English 565:11 enhancing 477:3 enjoy 343:11 550:4 enjoyment 424:1 enormous 363:22 375:7 376:3 enter 315:24 455:17 entered 317:13 379:8 441:20 551:7 enterprise 557:22 558:8 entire 317:1 357:11 362:20 423:7 604:10 entirety 603:10 entities 333:7 403:9,22 404:3 584:21 entitled 583:9 entity 319:1 environment 448:23 454:11 491- 4 531 8 578 5 580-1 environmental 357:9 395:15 436:10 532:8,10,14 553:14 554:8 556:7,23 557:24 561:7 562:2 564:8 573:20 577:9 580:16 581:22 582:23 583:3 585:1 environments 399:22 enzymes 488:15 EPA 340:24 397:3 586:20 epidemiological 519:18 epidemiologist 519:9,22 538:18 547:8 574:22 605:13 epidemiologists 518:19 epidemiology 345:16 352:12, 20 372:17 398:9 405:10 518:20 547:10 561:1 568:16 epidermis 462:21 epithelial 462:19,21,23,25 463:1 464:20 472:12 473:10 epithelium 462:20 equal 579:19 equals 422:16,21 equipment 324:1 448:12 Erionite 533:20 error 483:2 492:21,22 493:14, 18,25 494:2,7,9 errors 402:10,13 479:7 480:14, 24 483:1 493:2,21 494:14,15,21, 22 495:1 533:12 escalates 458:9 escalator 458:8,10,11 essential 449:5 463:15 486:9 essentially 319:1 366:7,11 454:19 495:14 497:20,21 549:9 establish 518:20 established 468:18 511:18 533:6 571:22 575:21 596:7 establishing 575:1 estimate 395:13 European 578:19 evacuated 455:18 evaluate 596:22 evening 609:19 event 329:21 550:21 events 317:5 343:18 471:2 eventually 494:1,11 495:5 569:6 Everyone's 385:14 everything's 486:23 evidence 314:22 315:2 316:12 323:12 324:16 326:14 331:18, 19,25 332:2,9 335:9 341:25 342:10 349:17,20,25 355:10 360:7 362:1 363:21 371:22,25 375:1,4 376:15 379:24 380:10, 12,13 383:14 384:16,17 387:16 389:22 390:1 391:8,15 393:2 394:7,14,21,22 400:6,14,21,22, 25 401:16,24 402:7,25 403:2,5 408:16,17 410:7,13416:7 435:23,24,25 436:1,24 437:15, 16,25 438:1 444:3 504:4 530:20 533:22 549:18 576:3 577:23 591:19 592:11 601:15 608:17,20 evident 578:25 exact 399:25 485:6 examination 442:13 535:5 552:6 608:6 examined 511:1 559:10 568:19 examiner's 464:9 examining 397:1 examples 320:21 333:1 409:7 538:11 exceed 393:14 exceeded 396:11 Excellent 469:25 excess 560:21 574:10 575:15 Index: entirety..experiment 579:21 580:8 exchange 456:18,19 458:24 459:8 460:23 471:12 exchanges 459:6 excited 379:21 exclude 492:14 excluded 482:5 580:4 ... exclusively 355:25 excuse 357:4 588:23 executive 557:22 executives 362:3 364:11 exertion 569:7 exhibit 444:2,8 508:13,16 513:5,6 514:25 521:24 539:6 541:17 542:23,24 543:14 545:6 552:24 587:8 588:9,21 589:6 590:16 exhibits 587:18,19 592:2,3 601:2 609:25 610:1 exist 319:18 374:21 395:6 existed 359:14 exists 347:24 582:13 exit 461:21 exited 376:21 439:4 550:7 609:13 expand 426:7 expanded 554:23 expands 425:11 expansion 425:14,18 427:3 569:7 expect 346:17 416:6 493:6 511:25 512:3 516:22 517:6 518:11 575:11 expected 316:6 322:20 331:22 560:23 575:5 expensive 391:1 448:12 538:9 545:4 experience 382:3 547:14 560:6,12 561:2 experienced 352:8 358:7 experiment 399:15 487:7 511:9 540:25 experiments 444:21 467:23 468:11 473:2 482:14 487:3 507:22,23 538:8,12 543:11 549:3 expert 351:17 364:21 366:14 367:12 368:14 372:24 374:5 390:3 392:3,7 401:7 402:3 403:16 436:3 451:6 500:15 562:3 564:7 593:13,21 596:25 597:19 604:1 expert's 415:17 expertise 547:21 596:21,23 603:14,16,17 605:1,3,5,11,12 experts 325:3,16 350:16 351:18 401:25 405:22 410:3 422:12,25 556:22 578:17 590:9 explain 333:24 335:2 415:4 417:18 423:18 436:6 451:14,25 452:2 454:10,16 468:12 479:13 506:8 520:22 538:19 575:12,15 602:8 explained 365:6 445:13 571:1 explains 428:25 explanation 543:24,25 explicitly 364:15 export 561:21 expose 470:5 507:23 exposed 319:5 322:14,18 324:4 326:7,8,11 327:15,20,22 337:3, 4,7,18 341:9 343:21 344:1 346:1 352:15 354:10,13,14 380:23 395:17 400:10 401:8,10 402:4 413:14 421:17 422:3,10,19,20 423:6,10 429:1 434:23 446:17 475:21 483:16 495:4 496:9,18 497:3,10,11 498:22 502:23 503:12 507:21 510:4,10 511:21 512:8 514:11,14 517:15 519:3,6, 15 529:21 530:2 535:12,21 538:4 540:13 542:22 566:5 570:7,16 577:11 578:6 579:15 580:15 exposure 324:17 325:20 326:4 327:17 331:3 332:16 337:17 338:5 339:4,5 340:5,9,10,12,18, 21 341:1,6,11,13,16,21 344:3 345:13,21 346:6,24 347:1,15,24 350:1,17 351:2 352:1,2 353:6,9, 22,23,25 354:3,5,12,18,21,23 355:17,23,25 358:6 369:16 373:6 395:14,16 398:21 413:8 415:6,18 422:1,24 423:2,13,14 428:14,16,17,20,21,24 429:10 437:4 469:5 470:22 471:18 490:16 496:3,12,21 498:25 499:2 501:15 503:25 504:9 519:16 527:20 530:5,6,8 533:7 541:5 544:25 555:25 558:19 569:2 571:17,19 572:13 575:23 577:8,9,10,15,19,21,25 578:4 579:6,16,18,22 580:13 582:11 583:10,14,20,22,23 584:5,9,20, 23 585:16,25 586:1,4,11,13,15, 17 exposures 318:1,4 325:17 332:25 344:9 352:8 353:19 355:2 398:18 469:11 501:18 502:16 544:19 549:10 563:21 582:23,24,25 583:3 585:25 586:4 express 505:23 extend 414:24 extended 524:10 extensions 457:18 extensive 577:22 584:5 extensively 420:24 594:14 595:2 extent 414:3 extraordinary 560:21 eye 320:5 334:8,11,14 374:25 381:2 455:9 459:13,23 460:2,3,9 480:6 eyes 319:10 336:19 363:23 F face 518:6,13 faced 456:23 faces 323:5 facility 402:2,5 413:9 415:13,18 432:6,7 fact 316:2,3 350:14,22 352:18 354:8,22 355:18 356:7 375:5 380:1 386:10 403:11 405:23 415:25 483:21 512:7 514:24 570:11 591:23 593:25 594:16,25 Index: experiments..FDA 608:25 613:14 factories 345:9 557:20 565:14, 17,19,20 568:19 factory 558:3 567:15 568:17 569:14 574:1 583:24 facts 431:19,20,23 597:6 fail 335:6 failure 324:2 554:2 fair 344:22 414:12 497:23 500:20 503:10,13 505:15 507:5, 7 508:10 512:13 519:11 520:15 524:20 535:13 537:16 554:6 559:14 562:11 fairly 556:13 faithful 486:20 fall 416:17 492:16 false 380:2 387:10 393:4 464:2 familiar 471:10 512:15 521:3,24 529:17,18 532:5 534:4 535:18 574:17 583:8 families 317:8 family 380:7 406:2 414:25 526:16 609:1 family-owned 558:8 famous 347:5 388:6 394:8 399:13 Farinas 314:12,14 419:12 439:18 440:10,19,25 441:5,9 609:17,19 613:4,12,20 fashion 457:21 516:21 fast 429:24 fat 559:1 fatal 337:13,16 345:14,19 father 484:23 fatigue 327:5 faucet 497:19 fault 387:20 favor 394:7 FDA 360:12,15 362:21 368:6 371:17,18,19,22 372:4,14 389:17,22 391:19,25 392:6,18 394:16,17,19,21 395:1,6,8,13, 17,21,23 396:6,7 398:4,6 404-16 19 21 604-11 FDA's 372-3 395 20 feasibility 586:9 feasible 585:22 features 531:19 Federal 556:8 fee 378:10 feel 391:13 394:18 401:22 453:7 454:5 458:4 610:21 611:19 feelers 408:7 feelings 548:20 feet 408:24 464:2 470:2 fellow 608:23 female 549:2,11 females 54Q R1ft fiber 332:18,19 336:1,5 342:7,9 343:14,21 344:12 354:24 362:15,25 386:6 405:18 422:22, 23 466:21,22,23 467:9,20 471:25 472:3 473:8,11 474:3,8, 13 476:24 477:9,10,13,14 481:19 487:13,14,15488:1 494:7 503:21 506:8,12,17 520:17,23 521:1,9 523:15 524:6 535:19,21 536:3,7,8,12 540:9 604:21,24 fiber-like 362:22 604:12,16 fiber-type 362:16 fibers 332:3 335:25 336:6,7 337:4 339:8,11 340:1 342:21,22 343:12 344:11 349:3 353:18 354:17 356:2 363:3 366:8,23 367:1 369:8,9 374:19 386:3 421:24 422:4,17,21 423:13 454:13 455:8 456:25 458:19,21 461:25 462:1 465:6 466:1,20 467:2,12,15 468:2,5 470:11 472:4,5,8,9,14,17,22 474:5,8,9, 11 475:22,25 476:10,19,23 477:6,7 478:20,21 481:10,17,20 482:4 487:16,17,19 495:15 503:18 504:20,23 505:2,6,8,15, 24 506:6,18 507:4,9 511:11 518:5,7 521:8 530:4,6,7,10 531:4 533:18 535:13,17,18,23 536:13,16 538:25 544:4 569:4 580:2 ... . fibrosis 567:14 ... fibrous 365:14 604:20 field 405:3,6 448:8 494:3,4,8,11, 13 fields 366:8 Fifteen 450:11 fight 489:9 fighter 327:7 fights 327:5 figure 333:15 346:18,20 363:20 364:6 365:25 388:24 421:23 436:14 465:8 472:15 536:18 figured 335:13 346:4 359:22 365:24 366:9 571:7 file 367:10 files 371:14 555:3 559:12 581:5 601:17 fill 336:8 457:11 497:19 506:15 films 566:5,7,8 filter 369:1,5 475:12 final 363:7 384:11 540:2,7 608:18 finalized 368:7 finally 325:24 330:23 335:7 353:20 355:21 Finch 315:1 316:15 331:23 333:24 334:1,3 344:19 377:6,10, 19 391:17 414:10 418:6 420:21 422:10 427:22 428:15 513:9 522:14,18 547:9,13,17,23 548:7 550:12 551:19 552:7,9,23 553:4, 7 564:6,13 587:7,14,17,21,23 588:4,7,21 591:18 592:7,10,16, 20 593:1 595:22 596:3 597:22, 24 598:5,13 599:25 600:3,16 601:1,8,9 602:10,13 603:3,8,21 604:5,8 605:3,6,14 606:12 607:6,18,21,25 609:24 610:4,8, 23 611:3,8,16,24 612:2,8 613:1 find 332:13,23 340:8 342:1 353:25 355:6 356:14 366:8 369:12 370:12 371:10 384:4 405:15 448:14 465:5 468:10 470:9 506:16 540:7 541:3 543:2, 4,10,12 549:3 558:23 563:1 Index: Fda's..fly 583:18 .. .. finding 360:11,12 373:18 .. . finds 404:2 fine 363:5,10 377:24 392:11 407:7,9 427:12 500:2 504:15 505 21 512 23 529 25 543 10 548:2 587:11 593:9 607:22 fingerprint 401:17 402:6 finish 411:19486:17610:13,15 finished 314:9 328:22 396:5 546:6 590:9 fire 337:24 420:24,25 fireproofing 501:12 firm 450:13,19 firm's 562:9 firms 500:24 fish 333:3,4,8,15 fit 335:24 445:10 506:16 fitted 426:18 fitting 426:8,15 fittings 431:2 five-year 338:16,18 fix 464:11 flat 462:17 flip 499:19 500:8 flipped 563:7 floating 354:24 384:9 477:6 531:8 floor 335:18 355:1 385:19 414:2 476:7 Florida 442:25 443:3 448:17 flossed 424:1 flow 472:20,21 473:19 474:1,15, 21 476:3,9,23 477:4,15,17 flowing 475:6 489:14 flows 475:2,3 477:17 fluid 472:19,20 474:1,15 475:1 476:8 fly 317:20 focus 400:5 414:15 444:19 445:17 457:6,10,13 471:2,14,24 478:20,22 folks 382:7 385:13 404:14 407:25 follow 316:6 514:10 522:16 536:22 follow-up 534:22 535:7 544:16 follow-ups 495:10 food 353:2 489:9 football 405:3,6 footnotes 543:19 forefinger 459:22 foreign 464:19,25 foremost 351:18 forget 359:18 591:10 form 478:22 486:23 521:9 formation 478:21 490:14 491:24 forming 362:16 forms 406:4 560:22 formula 356:8,9 formulation 590:2 forward 372:4 375:15 383:18 393:15 foul 349:15 found 317:6,8,10 352:14 356:2 362:16 363:6 364:16,19 365:14 367:6 369:19 370:24 373:15 387:13 389:25 401:20,23 404:16,22 407:15 409:1 475:21 476:24 517:22,25 540:1,15 541:6 544:4,9,10 549:5 568:19, 22 575:4,16 579:4,17 580:7 581:18 foundation 545:13 547:3 556:8 602:6 603:2,7,14 606:2,6 founded 381:5 412:11 430:13 four-year 389:17 fourth 326:23 380:23 511:6 fraction 572:21 fractional 572:19 fragment 407:21 521:4 523:14 fragments 362:24 373:19 521:9 523:3,14,17 604:21 frame 344:8 363:14 385:16 600:11,15 601:7 frames 469:2 France 519:19 Francisco 451:23 frays 328:21 Fred 389:6 Frederick 566:15 free 322:21 323:1 361:2 363:8 390:7 396:23 590:7,10 591:3,9 friable 534:4,6,8 535:13 537:14, 17 Friday 411:15 607:24 friend 315:11 front 323:19 338:14 375:11 386:18,23 413:3 441:6 455:17 456:3 464:2 500:21 539:7 541:20 552:15,16 full 380:15 424:18 447:7 523:11 569:23 full-time 428:3,7,13 fun 424:20 function 445:10,15 485:8 488:8,12,21 functions 454:8 475:7 fund 448:18 funded 343:9 448:22,24 funding 343:4 funny 491:23 furnace 425:21 future 345:3 375:16 558:10 G gag 570:21 gained 382:4 563:17 gaining 558:12 gallery 438:15 Index: focus..gentlemen game 349:16 384:18 388:16 394:6 404:3 gas 456:18 458:24 459:6,8 460:23 471:12 570:21 gaskets 335:20 400:24 gasoline 337:24 gather 407:8 gave 372:3 436:12 441:14 451:22 478:19 501:2 502:25 509:14 527:4 586:3 gears 507:17 geez 371:18 gene 483:2 485:5,17,21,23 486:20 492:23,24 493:14 general 340:22 355:1 436:7 555:2 566:19 569:24 573:1 574:6 575:13 583:7 generally 505:2 565:3 566:19 574:21 578:12 588:25 generate 489:5 generated 514:5 generates 455:20 generation 491:9 492:6 generic 405:16 genes 479:5,9 480:1,2,4,6,9,10, 11,14,18 481:24 483:3,4,6,7,18, 24 484:18,24 485:4,8,14 486:2, 10,25 488:5,6,8,9,11,13,15,17, 20,23,24 489:24 492:23,25 493:3,4,6,9 genesis 478:21 491:24 genetic 343:15,16,17 402:10,13 479:6 480:3,24 483:22 486:7 489:1,12,16,21 490:2,5 492:2,21 493:12 533:11 549:6 genetics 468:17 479:6 481:2 genome 485:1,2,23 gentleman 347:4 364:20 373:20 gentlemen 314:13 349:20 379:16 380:11 386:22 388:14 389:20 392:25 394:15 395:1,5 396:14,20 398:12 399:18 401:17 407:11 412:7 420:11 430:5 500:6 551:20,21 Geologic 384:21 geological 356:5 357:7,12 geologist 365:24 394:8 404:8 geologists 389:14 German 572:1,8 573:11 575:23 Germany 572:23 573:7,10 576:9 get all 446:17 gifted 329:21 giraffe 457:9 girl 329:15 girls 441:8 give 314:22 316:16 333:1 375:3 378:7,16 382:11 387:24 398:4,5, 6 405:2 411:1 425:15 429:25 438:11 444:11 462:18 469:10 470:7 479:10 481:6 492:7 497:14 499:13 501:2,21 502:14, 21 527:7,14 546:16 548:12 553:9 598:15 600:4 giving 431:15 433:17 450:7 452:20,21 471:20 491:22 glass 369:24 460:2 497:18,20 glasses 589:25 glued 385:13 go-to 373:25 goal 428:18 God 335:12 gold 424:3,10 425:17,23 426:12 518:23 golden 317:13 goniometer 515:24,25 good 314:3,4,13 324:2 345:24 349:7 375:25 379:16,17 383:24 391:2 392:6 403:10 406:8 408:14 412:6,8 424:7 430:4 439:10,15 441:22 442:15,16,17 490:22 539:9 543:9 545:19 551:19 552:8,9 581:14 goodness 357:16 g o vern m en t 340:13 343:4 403:9 426:23 561:4 565:12 566:9 583:16 584:19,21 604:14 grab 539:9 grade 383:5,6,7,8,11,13 544:3 590:6 graduate 373:23 444:17 446:3 588:13 598:21 606:5 graduated 553:22 grain 374:9 464:5,15 granddaughter 368:18 grandkids 443:5 grant 449:21 grants 449:21 graph 428:24 graphic 357:6 grasp 319:9 great 334:3 378:18 388:18 448:16 450:3 455:4 471:8 565:13 569:18 574:10 578:9 590:2 603:1 greater 331:18 332:8 503:7,8 greatest 559:15 green 406:15 491:23 494:24 Greene 315:1 331:23 377:13,22 378:20 439:9 441:13 442:1,14 443:15444:1,10451:4,11,12 452:8,10,13 454:22 455:2 499:4, 7,10,21 500:2 507:18 515:6 520:2 527:3,9,17,19,23 528:1,10 533:21,25 534:21 535:4,6 542:10,16 544:12,19 546:3,7,10, 21 547:1,5,21 548:3 550:10 593:1 594:12,19,22 595:9,11,15, 24 596:15 597:3,13,23 598:7,19 599:5,13,20,24 614:1 grew 334:7,16 381:17 424:8 495:2 553:21 grievously 558:2 gross 323:4 ground 335:12,15 356:4 361:15 408:24 466:2 grounds 591:22 603:14,16,17 606:2 group 345:18 363:24 373:22,23, 25 388:7 399:9,10,15 431:15 Index: Geologic..handful 465:23 466:7 470:12 539:16 556:21 557:2 579:13,14,19 606:16,23,24 groups 365:17 398:10 grow 481:8 growing 568:7 grown 361:15 375:13 494:23 grows 325:1 495:5 growth 327:3 479:9,12,14,25 480:11,13,15,18 482:23 483:4, 24 484:11 485:14 493:15,23 guard 424:18 571:15 guardian 485:22 guess 386:4 444:9 500:19 543:16 gun 455:20 guys 571:6 602:19 H habit 523:13 hair 336:4 388:25 398:25 399:2 579:24 596:20 hair-like 457:17 hairs 456:21 457:18 half 330:6 351:8 428:21 430:16 454:23 479:23 487:8,9 512:11 577:8 580:6 607:14 610:12,24 Halloween 334:12 hamburgers 361:8,9 hammer 406:16 Hammondsville 409:4 Hampshire 445:3 hamster 545:7 hamsters 541:19 542:22 543:4, 15 544:2 hand 369:23 442:6 443:13 455:16 534:9,10,12 537:18 551:24 552:14 592:17 handed 581:1 handful 534:21 handing 580:25 handled 348:7 349:4 handling 348:1 355:3 571:11 582:15 handwriting 588:10 handwritten 408:11 hang 514:20 Hannah 315:23 316:10,13 331:14 380:8 382:1 393:1 410:11 happen 361:21 380:25 403:5 482:15 483:25 484:2 490:7 533:5,6,16 happened 344:4 394:20 401:11 416:2,20 537:5,7,8 558:21 559:6 578:10 598:23 happening 392:8 393:21 487:3 492:17 happy 315:14 525:19 591:24 hard 342:1 391:2 449:23 504:6 538:8 hardens 425:21 hardware 583:5 harmed 351:10 harmful 345:10 347:16 362:22 382:17 604:12,16 harmless 407:6 Harney 430:7 499:11 613:23 Harvard 384:19 387:5 393:20 hate 338:14 375:11 506:22 hates 330:8 hazard 349:8 394:24 395:5 404:19 428:11 429:17 553:25 554:12 555:9 561:23 565:23 578:25 hazardous 348:24 537:14,15 561:21 hazards 334:25 335:5 337:8 347:21,23 349:1 364:22 414:13 555:5 558:24 565:12 566:13 570:17 582:12 HC 409:4,6 he'll 397:19 403:25 436:6 441:15 593:25 head 446:25 447:2 475:2,14 606:17 heading 464:3 headquarters 368:11 430:14 heads 364:6 health 322:1 340:4,19,23 342:4 343:10 349:1 384:19,21 385:2 394:24 407:22,23 446:25 448:20 449:22 450:2 474:18 485:1 553:16,21,23,25 554:1,8,12 555:7,8,12,20,22,25 556:12,23 561:5,10 562:3,16,17 564:8,16 566:22 570:15 571:4,10 578:25 585:4 586:19,21 587:1 588:15 605:15 607:2 health-related 558:10 healthcare 381:22 healthy 315:14 333:3 hear 317:9,21 318:9,14,16,20,23 324:16 325:3,16,24 327:7 329:3 330:7,15,16,18 331:1,4 332:15 335:9 338:16 339:12 342:25 344:4,5,8,17 347:5 351:13,14 353:8 357:24 360:7 364:20,24 371:17 380:12 382:5 383:14 386:1 388:7 389:6 391:12 393:11 394:9 397:14 398:8 400:11,16,25 402:6,8 406:19 407:13,15,19 408:10 409:25 410:1 413:9,15 419:4,9 421:22, 23 422:24 429:21 432:14 433:16 486:7 491:17 536:20 heard 329:8 379:23 380:16 384:25 391:16 397:24 403:6 408:9 411:3413:5,7 414:10 418:6 431:5,21,22 432:3 433:17 435:14 437:24 459:4 474:25 509:23 510:18,20 521:11 558:17 577:2 578:9 608:19 609:17 hearing 364:7 546:25 592:25 607:11 heating 426:10 427:3 heavier 366:17,20 heavy 366:12,21 370:19,21 577:20 held 324:10 347:9 379:6 411:25 Index: handing..holes 430:1 500:3 546:24 578:14 592:24 607:10 helped 332:3 helpful 397:21 407:5 452:1,5,10 508:4 557:3 563:14 helping 388:17 417:9 helps 468:11 hey 364:16 371:21 429:6 hid 392:24 hidden 320:18 321:8 346:7 Hiding 331:7 high 327:23 328:24,25 329:6 346:18 350:13 383:22 427:14 445:3 470:2 505:17 506:6,18,19 507:9 532:11,18 535:24 538:20 541:10 575:15 585:7 590:6 higher 355:5 370:15 372:8 519:12 highest 455:24 highlight 609:24 highlighted 574:14 highlights 565:10 highly 401:8 504:10 highway 340:15 Hilda 580:11 hired 367:11 368:14 373:22 395:24 401:7 403:16,23 404:1 historical 360:1 553:24 559:21 histories 575:7,10 history 348:16 420:2 555:8 559:7 562:3 564:9 577:8 hit 349:14 406:15 420:25 452:16 494:6 hitting 565:10 Hoffman 566:15,25 hogwash 352:6 hold 324:7,8 414:11 holds 321:18 hole 471:15 473:16 holes 461:8,9,10 holly 407:5 home 316:25 421:5 579:12,24 580:2 584:8 609:2 honor 314:12 334:4 376:4 377:7,15,19 378:20 379:15 412:2 429:23 439:8,9,12,18 441:6,10,13 442:1 443:15 444:1, 5 451:4,8,11 452:8,12 454:22 499:18,21 508:21 513:9,12,19 515:1,6,7 522:9 525:23 527:9,19 529:15 533:21 534:21 535:4 542:8,10 546:3,7,10 547:22 550:9,12,15 551:3 552:23 564:6, 11 587:7 588:4,21 591:18,22 592:16,20 594:12,20 595:6 596:5,16 598:19 599:13 600:16, 17 602:24 603:13,21 605:1 606:1 607:6,19 612:8,12 honorable 334:1 honored 447:15 hook 353:8 373:7,11 hop 345:5 hope 334:15 397:21 405:14 441:22 452:4 Hopkins 365:1 397:14 398:8 553:20 554:4 588:14 590:25 612:19 613:2,7,10 hormone 484:11 horrible 338:20,24 414:22 hoses 435:7,11 436:17,21 hospital 579:8 Hotel 578:15 hour 340:15 378:7 379:23 396:15 428:21 470:5,6,10,12 471:18 525:9 607:14 610:12,23 612:4 hourly 396:14 525:6 hours 326:18 341:6 398:16,17 428:19,20 464:10 470:13 525:4, 5 584:10 597:20 610:12611:18 house 407:9 421:8 housed 430:14 household 579:16,21,23 580:5 583:22 Hueper 581:19,21 582:4 Hueper's 582:8 huge 341:8 505:12 hugely 350:13 390:25 human 343:25 363:25 375:6 445:8 446:10,16 457:15 460:2,3 462:5,7 469:14,18 474:18 485:1, 2 518:21,24 574:24 humans 470:25 480:4 484:21 hundred 335:14 348:15 363:10 370:11 404:22,23 420:9 460:6 480:10 485:14 567:5 hundreds 355:4 368:21 382:11, 20 385:22 444:22 460:24 500:21 Hurricane 455:12 hurt 319:14 340:16 548:20 hurts 319:12 husband's 347:2 HVAC 431:3 hygiene 345:24 509:10 553:20 hygienist 354:19 436:8 536:21 hygienists 367:18 422:1,22 536:17 hypothetical 333:14 527:4,10, 14,16,19 528:18 I i.e. 523:15 IARC 336:11,12 340:20 342:14, 20 384:25 387:5 idea 329:7 351:25 373:12 385:9 439:18 529:10 identical 356:9 554:21 identifiable 353:9 363:2 604:23 identification 521:23 542:25 identified 369:8,9 542:6 565:20 567:3 579:7 identifies 428:10 identify 368:24 583:18 identifying 580:12 idiopathic 349:24 Index: holly..incidental IDS 378:9 II 576:14 Illinois 397:3 445:6,7 illustrative 529:16 image 456:2,4 imagine 391:12 immediately 327:19 328:17 337:2 438:19 471:17 573:7 585:2 608:25 immortal 570:25 immune 475:8 impacted 318:17 325:25 impacting 318:6 impartial 438:13 implication 606:3 importance 570:6 important 315:16,25 319:8 324:23 325:15 337:8 361:25 383:5,14,22 384:6,15 385:8 390:4 394:23 396:19 398:9 400:6,17 401:16 404:15 405:5, 21 406:1,4,5 407:3,11 408:17 416:24 426:9,13 433:20 434:22 449:24 450:5 458:6 463:13,17 483:13 485:23 486:8 496:25 512:19 570:16 589:2 importantly 367:10 imports 563:23 impossible 361:16 impression 424:23 426:2 impropriety 438:12 improved 367:24 impurities 590:8 in-place 537:11 inability 325:24 inaccurate 392:3,7 inactions 319:6 inappropriate 319:22 inch 420:13 incidental 348:4 353:6 582:18 include 366:20 394:13 406:25 501:8 539:3 549:23 609:1 included 417:23 includes 348:11 404:23 430:21 including 339:16 368:25 381:10 389:18 392:13 403:22 509:7 561:11 566:6 576:22 incorporated 421:14 increase 475:22 563:23 increased 398:19 399:5 519:24 538:17 increases 493:22 increasingly 577:25 incumbent 448:14 independent 395:25 403:6 590:8 indestructible 580:1 Indiana 400:8 430:12 438:16 448:16 451:2 562:7 Indianapolis 421:20 423:9 indication 377:3 593:19 individual 328:1 331:11 335:25 474:10 488:24 524:12 531:15 572:4 573:5 individuals 348:3 582:17 industrial 345:24 354:19 367:18 383:5,11 408:19,21,23 409:5,7 415:15 422:1,21 430:25 436:8 536:17,21 553:25 584:4 industries 561:21 industry 391:4,9 393:14 396:12 428:8 553:13 568:7,23 569:12 571:5 586:3 infected 426:16 infection 463:3 489:9 infinitesimal 395:11 405:1,4 inflammation 532:13,25 influence 526:17 influential 493:7 inform 321:21 322:17 551:12 information 321:20 331:8 411:2 527:7 555:2 558:4 559:1 563:10,15 579:3 informed 322:3 ingest 320:12 321:3 ingredient 323:7 inhalation 513:25 531:9 540:24 541:18 543:3,14 582:13 inhalatory 347:24 inhale 348:8 457:21 458:12 inhaled 340:2 401:9 464:15 474:11,12 497:12 521:10 539:6 inhales 495:14 inhaling 336:25 464:14 475:25 512:5 536:10 initial 326:21 457:2 initially 381:12 injected 399:8,16 511:12,24 512:12 injection 512:10 injured 463:3 484:14 injurious 566:22 injury 319:16 333:21 386:7 447:5 468:8 inlay 424:1,6 inlays 424:9 inoculation 511:11 inside 381:13 425:5,10,18,23 426:5 454:2,4,7 481:24 559:12 insidious 326:12 inspector 345:9 565:14,16 566:18 568:17 inspectorate 569:14 574:1 inspectors 565:19 installation 501:18 installed 501:17 Institute 340:18,23 384:20 485:2 581:2,20 586:21 Institutes 343:10 446:25 448:20 449:22 450:2 484:25 institution 393:12 605:19 institutions 405:8 Index: include..interview instruct 331:12,14 332:10 410:11 instructions 315:5 320:7 331:15 441:24 insulated 335:17 insulation 335:16 355:16 374:6 421:1 501:8 560:7,8 578:3 584:7 insulations 400:24 insulator 434:18 insulators 427:15,18 insurance 566:15,20,21 567:2, 4 intact 463:7 intend 316:20 intended 339:21 369:15 intensive 389:18 intentionally 339:14 366:2 401:1 interact 468:8 479:2 interaction 569:3 interactions 560:2 interest 450:10 interested 378:10 390:16 448:7 463:12 481:9 553:17 interesting 402:9 405:14 408:10 424:12 interests 521:19 interfere 344:15 intermingled 356:6 internal 372:3 593:13 595:1 600:1 601:22 602:21 605:23 606:4 International 336:10 340:20 367:3 385:1,5 509:9 586:19 interpret 603:3 interpreting 603:2 interrupt 506:22 interrupted 507:4 interruption 448:24 in terview 354:1 411:15 559:18 interviewed 559:23 579:8,9,13 582:5 interviewing 575:9 interviews 563:13 intrapleural 511:10 invested 364:1,2 investigating 363:4 investigation 389:18 392:18 582:6 investigators 475:18,19 investing 425:21 investment 425:20 invisible 320:19 invitation 556:2 558:1 invited 443:24 446:9,10 582:3 involved 389:17 394:16 555:14, 16,17 582:25 584:21 609:9 involvement 418:3 involving 557:12 562:10 574:3 iron 401:22 466:16 Ironically 324:13 ironing 421:15 irresponsible 324:9 irritating 381:14 Irving 347:4 386:14 560:4 606:16 isolated 540:1 issue 325:15 332:17 365:17 407:22,23 431:10 439:25 448:9 477:3 530:18 554:15 557:2 586:8 593:3 issued 584:25 issues 397:20 440:1,14,17 555:12,14,22 556:3 558:10 561:19 610:9 613:5 Italian 358:1,4,5 399:8,11 510:8, 13 511:19,22 541:4 italicized 514:4 Italy 357:24 383:16 385:3 388:9, 10 389:8 519:19 557:16,25 558:3,4,9 Item 589:3 ivy 407:10 J J'S 393:8 J4-1 391:5 jade 406:11 jam 424:19 612:5 January 317:23 326:20 416:14 417:14 568:3 Jersey 381:6 560:19,24 Jesus 388:23 jewelry 406:11 job 315:18 316:5 324:5 328:14 329:1 416:16 428:5 433:5,8,9,11 579:15 580:14 602:2 jobs 415:14 432:18 John 394:9 397:14 Johns 365:1 553:20 554:4 Johnson 318:20,21,22,24 319:2,3 322:12,13 323:7 330:14, 19 335:3 341:14 342:3 346:21 348:20,21 352:10,11 355:21,22 356:15,21,23,24,25 357:3,19,22 358:2,3,7,13 359:21,22 360:2, 13.18.19.20 361:11,17 362:2,3, 7,9 364:11 365:2 367:9,11,13,25 368:3,11 369:10,11 370:25 371:1,5,13 372:2,3,13,16,17 373:4 374:15,20,21 379:18,22 380:13,22 381:5,15,19,20,21 382:12,17,25 383:1,15,21,23 384:8,13,24 385:3,6,20,21 386:9,25 387:3,25 388:12,15 389:3,7,14,19,25 390:7,10,18 391:8 392:9,15,19,20 393:4,11, 18,24 394:3 395:19,21,22,24 396:2,4,11,13 397:2,6,13 398:3, 5,6 399:11,17,22,23 401:15 403:7,17,18 408:19,20 410:14, 16.18.20 414:18 433:16 514:6 517:9 537:10 540:19 545:13,15, 16 561:17,18 584:15 587:3 588:10,22,25 589:7,9 590:1,2, 14,18 591:15 593:10,11 595:1, 15,22,23 596:2 598:1 599:18,20 600:2,7,11 601:7,11,17,20 Index: interviewed..justify 602:4,7,16,20 605:7,8,23 606:20 612:14,15 613:10 Johnson's 323:6 329:17,24 354:5 357:19 360:11,12 365:12, 13 367:6,8,10,13 368:1,4 369:9, 16,19 371:13 372:11 380:14 381:11 382:13,17 383:20 384:13 386:25 388:12 389:25 390:7,10 392:19 393:4 394:3 395:19,21, 24 396:2 399:11,17 403:7 410:14,16,18 502:11 510:16 514:5 590:4 591:3,8 594:23 599:20 601:17 joint 335:20 362:11 393:20 joints 445:11 journal 346:8 387:15 523:5,8,9 567:10,11,24,25 568:2,4,10 569:16,20,22,24,25 570:4 573:10,19,23 574:8,16 577:17 582:1 journals 368:23 556:24 566:3 567:24 journey 454:18 judge 315:23 316:10,13 331:14 332:10 344:22,24 380:8 382:1 393:1 410:10 judgment 324:3 Judicial 438:16 July 327:11 417:15 588:23 June 386:13 387:17 juries 500:21 562:1,7 juror 315:5 411:16,21 jurors 379:17 412:8 421:7 437:11,24 546:14 608:23 jury 314:14 376:10,21 377:2,4 379:4,8 380:11 412:19 438:15 439:4,17 441:11,12,20 445:1 452:1 459:4 465:14 478:14 499:13 500:12 511:20 521:6 522:10,16,20 523:23 530:16,23 532:6 546:12,25 550:7 551:7,12 552:10 553:9 554:17 557:15 559:25 564:15,25 565:5 576:3 578:9,10 592:25 607:11,12 608:16 609:13 611:20 jury's 577:2 justify 376:3 K Kathy 314:14 338:7 348:17 361:3,12 375:23 Katrina 455:13 keeping 608:8 Kerr 318:19 322:13 328:5 341:22 344:6 346:13 348:14,18, 21 349:17,21 352:11 355:9 412:10,18 414:9,24 415:10,21 416:4,7,8 417:13 423:16,18 427:4,5,8 428:17,20,21,22 429:2,9 513:18 550:13,16 551:12 613:11 Kerr's 339:17 key 345:20 367:9 377:16 413:1 414:8 429:8 472:5 kick 489:24 kid 345:2 346:18 351:7 373:11 385:11 kidding 544:6 kids 334:18 375:13 kill 325:25 489:24 564:3 killed 464:8 killing 494:18 kiln-type 328:12 kind 320:10 323:2,4 329:19,20 334:13 337:21 346:16,19 352:2 353:1,9 356:4 373:25 375:15,16 390:17 391:3 399:14 400:2 401:21 402:17 406:1 407:4 408:7 409:23 424:11 432:23 433:5,11,25 434:13,15,19 435:6, 15 452:5 461:3 462:24 463:24 464:19 466:1,5,19 469:11 481:18 487:13 490:12 496:2,3 497:1 519:15 526:8 531:25 532:21,23 533:13 539:14 581:14 583:19 591:1,23 611:20 kindergartners 373:8 kinds 320:6 337:11,20 338:17 372:10 383:4 423:20,23 451:20 455:10 471:2 479:1 481:10 508:5 518:5 533:17 541:1,13 562:24 569:8 Kingdom 446:12,21 knew 323:10 335:2 346:21 354:4 363:13,15 367:21 370:20 387:22 468:1 560:2 590:20 599:18 knit 488:16 knowable 342:1 364:23 414:11, 13,15,16 427:11 555:4 558:20 564:22 567:8 593:16 knowing 416:1 knowledge 335:6,7 382:3,8 387:2 390:18 555:8 558:12 559:4 563:17 596:18 599:21 Kokomo 400:4,7 413:6 432:5 Kradin 351:18 354:16 Kyle 436:4 L lab 348:13 360:10 368:19,20 413:21 417:7,10,12,21 418:8,9, 12,23 419:13,17 420:2,5 427:23 428:4 label 395:3,4,7 labeled 367:25 labels 320:3 labor 556:3 566:10 585:4 laboratories 482:14 545:12 laboratory 328:10 347:22 348:11 395:25 396:18 446:23 447:1,3 448:25 458:21 465:2 482:13 485:16 labs 374:14 403:9 ladies 314:13 349:19 379:16 380:11 386:22 388:14 389:19 392:25 394:15 395:1,5 396:13, 20 398:11 399:18 401:16 407:10 412:6 420:11 430:4 500:6 551:19,21 lady 330:2 542:1 565:19 laid 412:24 416:20 418:1,10 547:4 Lancet 569:16,20,22 land 470:11 477:7 Index: Kathy..left landed 464:17 470:10 473:11 lands 476:1 Langer 386:14 language 565:11 large 348:3 363:5 384:2 432:6 554:3 568:6 582:17 largely 554:21 lastly 550:1 late 342:20 356:18 377:3 383:17 411:5,8450:15 latencies 492:8,9,12 latency 325:19,21 358:10 490:16 492:5,9 latent 572:18 law 316:6,7,13 319:10 331:11, 12,13,14 332:14 333:9 363:23 376:3 410:12 548:15 562:9 568:15 585:22 lawsuit 367:7,13 551:13,15 lawsuits 559:11 591:15 lawyers 367:13 375:25 435:23, 24 438:9 548:13 564:18 lay 316:19 417:22 layer 453:22 454:1 476:16 490:21,23 492:18 lead 343:18 471:3 480:24 leader 388:21 leading 480:18 581:21 leads 343:16 learn 334:22 383:16,25 384:14 390:15 391:7 395:10 406:6 407:2 445:9 468:21,24 503:1 learned 405:16 467:22 468:24 471:5 565:8 learning 343:11 563:18 leave 316:24 332:21 525:18 551:1 609:16 leaves 440:12 Lee 373:22,23,25 374:5 left 328:25 386:25 406:12 411:4 415:19416:16,18423:12461:9 543:20 left-hand 491:14 legal 316:1 554:20 559:5,15 563:19 581:1 586:7 lengths 419:11 lesions 544:1 lethality 578:21 letter 367:11,14 441:8 516:18 588:9,22,24 589:6,14,17 600:8 letterhead 588:22 602:20 letters 436:6,7 577:17 589:19 590:21 593:8 597:16 598:11,12 602:18 level 340:5,7,8,17,21,25 341:15, 21 343:6 346:6 347:15 350:17, 24 352:1 354:18 355:8,23 366:4, 5 371:25 422:4,12,13,21 423:6 455:25 495:20 503:24 504:2,5, 18 505:23 506:5 507:9 518:10 532:1 549:6 584:22 586:4,5,14, 17 levels 395:16 401:12 Lewis 315:3,6,17 316:22 322:17 324:15 327:9,23 329:9 330:13 332:1 334:2 346:13 348:12 380:7,23 383:19 401:20 413:7 415:10 416:8,9,10,11,15417:8, 13 418:8,14 419:22 422:19 427:13 428:13,17,19 429:4 432:12,16 433:22 436:17 437:4 439:20 440:7,22 526:15 528:20 537:3,6 Lewis' 373:6 380:14 410:17 413:5 415:4 416:2 418:16 429:9 431:14 432:2,3 436:2 502:15 529:6 609:20 612:10 Lewises 410:6 liable 324:10 Libby 335:18 374:3 library 346:15 468:6,10 567:10 570:3 581:10,18 lie 359:17 544:2 Lieben 583:8 lieu 330:12 life 317:7,25 325:12 329:11 373:6 375:12 386:10 403:14 422:17 463:15 470:24 524:12 566:20,21 567:4 life's 444:12 lifeguard 334:9 lifelike 464:12 lifespan 507:24 538:7 lifetime 423:7,8,13 505:16,21, 22 506:21 507:1,6 538:9 586:13 light 350:5,12 370:14 484:23 lightly 316:4 lightning 490:25 491:2 lights 454:23 likelihood 493:22 likes 422:11 likewise 502:14 524:25 limit 340:12 350:20,21 351:2,8, 11 585:16 586:2,11 limitation 548:4 limited 324:4 372:7 448:17 548:1,25 556:25 613:15 limiting 571:18 limits 469:12 515:23 585:25 lined 425:8,9 457:16 473:17 484:19 lines 432:22 433:4 458:11 lining 325:1,2,8 337:14 338:7 454:2 456:15 458:16 476:14,21 492:19 link 378:14 linked 346:23 linking 346:9 577:15 liquid 366:12,18 370:20,21 403:19 list 348:10 378:11 443:22 592:13 listed 449:8 listen 315:21 341:25 379:2 397:17 403:2 408:15 listening 316:11 488:4 listing 573:20 lists 493:4,6 545:14 Index: left-hand..lookout literally 338:21 literature 339:7 340:6 341:5,17 343:8 353:24 359:7 364:24 370:23 444:23 448:6 449:2 495:24 496:15 547:6 555:3 558:15,21 566:25 572:10 573:18 575:20 577:14 582:19 584:12 588:14 litigation 374:2 397:5 live 319:20 334:16 398:16 442:24 469:3,10 548:9 552:12, 13 600:18 608:4 lived 398:19 583:3 livelihood 411:24 liver 479:20,21 lives 317:17 375:14 380:5 397:15 437:11 living 347:2 382:4 445:14 577:11 579:12,22,25 580:6 586:23,25 loaded 364:10 local 555:24 location 417:2 433:1 logo 431:10 London 579:8 long 314:16 336:2 344:9 357:16 359:14 369:12 402:21 411:4 414:18 421:19 432:22 450:9 460:11 467:24 469:10 472:3,4 481:19 482:9 487:13,17 489:11 492:10 496:5 501:18 507:3,15 509:17 557:7 566:12 570:24 575:1 591:8 608:18 long-term 528:22 longer 314:20 316:17 336:14 415:12 417:9 433:4 466:22 520:13 551:12,14 591:10607:14 608:10 610:25 Longo 369:3 looked 340:6,7 350:2 391:20 392:1 394:21 395:8 397:2 403:7, 10 405:9 407:20 436:15 437:3 475:4,19 514:9 540:7 612:20 613:3,13 lo okout 409:6 lose 326:19 375:5,12 482:10 493:23 losing 479:17 loss 479:12,14 480:12,16 lost 424:14 lot 329:8 334:10 335:15,20 337:22 344:17 347:5 356:6 360:7 371:17 386:4 387:5 390:17 403:8 406:1,8 420:10,21 421:14,22,23 424:9,20 436:5 448:13 455:5 456:23 457:1 458:12 464:14 468:23 470:15 472:6 479:21 486:13 504:23 505:7,13,14 512:2 514:6 515:19 516:5,12 543:2,6 577:18 578:5 579:17 582:19 612:23 lotion 329:13 lots 401:2 544:10 564:4 lousy 426:14 love 375:12 497:25 lovely 400:5 415:1 423:20 low 366:4 479:24 503:21,22 506:17,18 lower 358:19 370:8,15 404:23 503:10 586:4 lowest 340:7 Luckily 341:7 Lucky 498:7 Ludlow 356:21 357:18 luminary 390:4 lunch 314:9 377:5 378:7 437:20 439:11,13 441:23 579:25 612:4 lung 324:24,25 337:21,25 338:8 344:14 346:4,10,12 402:1 445:18 446:18 447:1,2,5 453:15, 17 454:12,14 456:7,11 457:3 458:22,25 459:9 460:13,15 461:7,19 464:7,10,12 465:7 467:2 468:2,3,5,8 469:23 470:9 471:9,10,19 472:20,21 473:3,11, 21 474:1,16,20,21 475:16,20,24, 25 476:3,9,14 477:1,6 478:7,9 479:1,20,21 486:14,15 495:15 496:4,6 498:13,14 502:6 511:13 521:19 523:1,2 524:10 531:20 558:18 560:21 565:20 567:14,22 569:4,5 571:21,23 572:2,5,15, 16.20.25 573:4,8,15 574:4,5,6, 12.13.21.25 575:3,6 576:23 lungs 325:1,5 337:12,14 338:22,23 339:10 351:15 386:3 446:10 453:4,11,20,21 454:3,7, 20 460:25 461:22 476:6 505:3,7, 9 523:24 530:9,11 532:1 537:7 567:19 569:11 lymph 474:21,23,25 475:1,6,7, 11,12,13,16,20,22,24 476:3,6, 11.17.20.25 477:3 478:4 lymphatic 477:8 M machine 345:3,5 359:4,5,11 374:10 Maci 317:15,16 318:2,16 Macro 464:22 macrophage 491:19 macrophages 464:22 465:4,5 491:20 made 327:4 339:16 361:1 363:8 374:6 381:15 382:22 383:24 387:3,23 417:19 418:4 419:22, 23 424:11,15,17425:10431:11 432:21 440:6,7 441:9 445:14 459:23 460:1 470:1 493:2 494:24 545:22 550:21 563:4 570:21 573:8 578:20 582:9 magazine 485:20 magically 405:23 magnate 557:20 magnesium 466:15 magnified 459:14 463:11,22 magnifying 369:24 460:2 magnitude 536:1 main 498:18 major 403:9 475:7 565:5 majority 358:5,21 361:18 374:20 583:7 make 314:22 315:7,10 319:19, 23 320:7,14,19 328:10,14 334:11 348:19 350:9 361:19 366:19 370:4 373:20 378:15,22 Index: lose..marked 380:9 381:13,21 384:10 387:15 388:18 389:4 392:25 393:25 406:16 407:18 408:14 409:13 411:7,13,18412:14417:10,17 418:12 419:20 424:22 425:3,17 426:25 427:4 429:15 430:18 458:1 459:22 461:18 462:11 470:4 480:5 488:15 489:8,9 513:15 514:17,24 524:1 526:7 528:6 613:13 makes 336:16 337:24,25 425:23 426:3 453:20 466:13,22 472:2 487:14 makeup 372:10 making 328:18 359:21 411:23 419:10 425:13 426:22 494:2,13 568:13 male 549:2,11 males 549:5,8 560:25 malignant 492:6 Malik 379:19 410:19 444:6 451:8 499:18,24 500:5 504:13 508:17,20,23 513:4,8,21 515:10, 14 522:9,13,16,21 525:13,19 528:8 542:8,12 544:15,18 545:25 547:3,7,12 548:1,6 man 335:13 338:14 344:21 359:12 360:10 388:25 559:25 manifestation 586:6 manipulate 413:22 419:24 manipulating 415:15 419:9 manmade 337:9,10 manufacture 319:22 322:25 412:15 manufactured 322:15 427:6 430:20 manufacturers 501:1 manufacturing 322:22 map 316:16,19 360:6 375:3 453:12 March 605:23 mark 327:12 368:15 373:14 444:1 m arked 508:13 513:5 515:2 521:23 588:1,8 601:14 marker 337:17 459:11,17 460:11 markers 351:15 market 348:25 361:17 Marlboros 498:9 married 317:9 443:4 Maryann 394:8 Maryland 334:17 552:13 mask 322:10 massive 398:17 569:2 Master 445:7 master's 553:13,15 587:1 588:15 match 408:12 material 368:15,21 408:4 409:8 418:4 420:13,15 421:4,12 424:4 425:9,16,20 426:7 427:3,8 428:4 435:16,22 459:6 480:3 521:7 534:7 554:22 604:13,16 materials 348:2 362:16,23 368:22 412:13 417:22 420:22 421:6 426:1 436:13,20 448:12 545:23 562:25 563:1 582:16 594:14 Matt 373:21 matter 350:14,22 352:18 354:8, 22 376:23 407:10 434:9 438:3 454:11 483:16 502:5 518:8 532:4 549:11 550:9 569:2 584:10 matters 439:6,16 609:15,20 maturation 568:25 maximum 420:2,10 Maxwell 416:11,22,25 417:6 418:4 419:12,22 420:2 429:13 Mcconnell 470:20 Mccrone 388:6,20,21,24 389:1 392:10 396:18,19 398:3,6 Mcdonald's 361:8 meaning 326:9 345:7 351:15 means 352:13 359:20 402:16 416:14 422:2 428:25 436:8,9,10 464:22,23 467:9,11 470:8 471:16 474:5 480:13 482:11 487:21 488:8 491:25 496:17 503:7,17 506:8,12 512:11 524:10,12,13 533:10 534:7,10 537:18 540:8 585:23 593:19 meant 603:4 611:11 measure 422:1 485:12 measured 523:2 measurement 459:17 measures 400:4 Measuring 523:1 mechanical 430:24 mechanics 583:1 mechanism 457:6 458:7,13 463:5 533:14 mechanisms 344:16 483:9 491:7 531:23 media 387:10,11 mediated 498:21 medical 318:10,15 324:12 326:13 339:6 340:6 341:5 345:11,17 346:8 347:13 353:24 359:7 364:23 381:24 418:7 426:17 444:14,16,17,23 445:25 446:4 447:8,17 448:5,6 449:2 450:7 451:21 452:22,25 464:9 502:18 521:18 526:8,10 554:19 560:4 563:19 565:7,16 566:25 567:10,11,24,25 568:2,4,11 569:15,20,22,23,24,25 570:3,4 573:10,11,14,19,24 574:8,16,22 575:19 577:14,17 580:19 581:10,18 582:1 584:12 medicated 381:13 medications 327:5 medicine 318:12 347:7 605:21 meet 439:23 440:2 446:6 523:15 609:19,21 612:16,17 613:4 meeting 478:23 600:6 606:19 612:13 Melody 315:2,8,12,13,17 317:6, 22 318:8,13,17 319:5 322:14,17 323:24 324:3,15 325:7 327:9,14, 21,23 328:7,20 329:6,9,13,19,21 330:7,11,13,17 331:4 332:1 334:4 341:24 344:5 346:13,23 Index: marker..mesothelioma 348:12 349:7 352:8 353:10 355:11 358:6,20 373:6 439:20 440:7 612:10 Melody's 317:15 318:1 323:22 326:13 327:11 328:14 330:24 332:5,17,25 338:15 343:2,3 349:22 353:4 613:4 melted 425:22 melts 426:10 member 556:5 557:5,7 605:20 members 526:16 557:1,10 560:18 609:2 membrane 453:19 482:6,10 484:8 memo 373:17 374:12,22 memorandum 362:2 363:15 364:14 601:22 604:18 605:24 memorized 608:15 memory 415:25 men 353:22,25 354:9 379:24 387:20 398:19 575:12,13 mention 431:8 512:7 mentioned 380:17 388:20 389:7 399:13 411:15 427:4 501:4,25 503:3 516:16 520:2 523:22 524:14 540:19 545:3 569:9 582:2 584:18 600:19 mentioning 511:5 mentions 511:5 mentor 510:2 Meriwether 568:24 569:9 570:8 meso 507:15 518:15 msothlia 454:9 msothlial 453:24,25 454:1,6, 15 456:16 458:16 476:16,20 477:18 478:12 479:23,24 482:23 487:24 490:22 492:19,20 493:14,17 mesothelioma 324:16,19,20, 24,25 325:10,17 326:3,5 327:9, 18 329:17 332:1 337:15 338:1,2, 4,6,11,12,18 339:3,6 340:13 341:7,11,12,17 342:13,21,23 343:18 344:2,10,15 346:22 347:15 349:23 350:12,13 351:22 352:3,7,9 353:21 354:9,14 355:24 358:9 373:2 380:15 382:14,20 398:19 399:5,9,14,17 405:21 410:17 414:21 422:9 428:3,12,16 429:11 432:2 446:19 453:25 454:17 458:15 470:18,24 471:3 476:13 478:6, 10 483:17,20 486:13 491:5 492:12 493:9 494:20 495:17 496:8,11 498:4 499:1 503:4 504:9 507:7,11,15 508:3 511:7, 9,21 514:12 516:23 517:7 518:12 519:1,25 528:21 532:3,8, 9,17 533:8,9,18,20 537:9 538:5, 7,16 540:11,14 541:11 545:1 549:8 558:18 560:22 575:18,19, 23 576:5,8,21 577:1,15 579:5,7, 18 580:9,14 582:21 583:9,13,19, 25 584:3 mesotheliomas 372:18,22 402:15 493:1 507:20 508:9 512:13 514:15 533:4 541:2,7 mess 370:20 417:5 491:20 met 360:15,16 412:9 430:6 447:18 580:9 metabolic 480:8 metabolize 489:9 metal 425:15 metals 366:20,21 mtastass 573:5 meter 354:24 method 366:11,13 367:24 369:7 370:21,22 371:1,4,8,9,12,15 372:6,9 391:3,16,18,20 392:1,3, 6,8 403:19,20 424:14 426:21,25 469:19 517:4,5,10 methods 326:7 368:2 392:21 393:14 399:23 516:1 Mexico 564:4 mice 468:15 469:1 470:3 517:16 Michigan 430:16 microbes 369:23 micron 459:20 460:5 microns 336:1 459:16,17,18,19 460:1,4,6,8,10 472:3 482:1 487:14,15,16 microscope 363:2 366:8 369:25 370:14,16 371:2 372:7 390:25 392:14 404:10 455:11,12 456:1,10457:6,11,13459:15 460:3,7 462:8 479:15 482:2 604:23 microscopes 390:14,19 391:6, 7,10 392:12 394:2,13 396:18 403:17 451:20 455:10 microscopic 339:9 494:4 microscopist 389:4 392:20 397:2 605:4 microscopy 388:21 mid 344:7 383:18 393:12 601:12 middle 416:24 510:23 539:22, 23 576:14 Mike 412:10 mile 580:6 miles 340:15 347:2 430:16 mill 384:7 Miller 362:8,9 601:23 millers 398:11 399:22 519:12, 19 millimeter 336:3 459:24 460:4 million 336:5 337:4 370:17 382:10 422:7 525:11 millions 381:18 382:12,20 457:17 460:24 471:19 481:6 487:6 505:17,20 506:21,24,25 507:5 535:22 536:15 582:25 mills 519:7 mind 405:5 406:6 414:8 437:23 438:4 549:17,21 mind's 460:9 mine 336:20 347:3 356:11,19,22 357:1,5,24 358:2,18,19 362:10, 12,14,17 364:2 372:19,20 383:23 384:4 388:8 393:24 396:5,8 398:22 404:6 408:3,23 409:3 539:25 540:2,16 Mine's 515:2 mined 356:4 465:18 577:12 miner 538:16 Index: mesotheliomas..mixed mineral 335:11 382:24 420:22 465:18,23,24 466:5,7 520:17,24 540:6 569:3 580:2 mineralogical 539:24,25 mineralogist 404:8 466:17 510:1 520:5,20,21 mineralogists 466:25 mineralogy 593:24 minerals 339:19 344:21 356:24 357:10 366:17 370:4 392:12 405:17 407:1 510:23 520:8 522:5 523:2,13,18,21 miners 372:18 373:1 398:10 399:22 407:24 519:12,18 538:14 mines 357:14,19 358:25 372:22 383:23 384:2 385:4 388:7,9 389:8,11 393:22 394:4 396:3 398:16 407:14 408:18,20 409:9 519:7 590:5 602:22 minimal 607:1 minimum 325:22 mining 356:19 357:15 383:25 384:1,5 406:25 408:21 minister 583:23 minuscule 321:8 minute 336:15 410:23 417:19 491:23 565:1 605:10 minutes 314:6 318:11 378:7 428:22 429:25 432:1 440:4,5 444:25 550:5 581:3 608:10 misdirection 381:1 403:4 misdirections 408:2 misperceived 324:25 misremember 359:19 misspoke 357:5 542:15,18 Misstates 542:8 mistake 387:24 mistaken 387:14 mistakes 479:7 486:4 MIT 388:10 mix 418:25 m ixed 408:15 mixes 423:23 mixing 584:8 model 424:24 425:1 446:20,22 468:14 models 469:15,17 547:16,17 548:2,23 modern 354:6 modern-day 360:3 modified 610:7,8 moist 476:5 478:2,5 moisture 456:22 476:5 mold 417:25 425:3,10,22 426:5 moldings 348:19 molds 328:14,18 molecular 343:5 479:4,5 481:2, 12 483:12,15 486:8,16 494:17 molecule 485:19 moment 459:1 495:14 603:15 Monday 610:16 613:24,25 money 319:23 monitored 396:22 Montana 335:18 month 375:10 418:11 420:9 568:3 571:12 months 325:13 372:25 413:16 415:11 416:21 417:16 423:11 428:6,23 429:12 470:13 493:17, 25 494:10 541:5 569:1 576:15 morbidity 560:16 morning 314:3,8,13,15 316:15, 20 317:5,20 379:11,16,17 412:6, 8,17 440:8 442:15,16 607:17,18 608:12 609:11 610:5 mortality 560:6,12,15 561:2 566:11 579:4 mother 318:3,5,6 424:8 484:22 motion 533:23 motions 550:25 motorcycle 464:8,13 Mount 347:6 360:15 364:9,12, 15,18 386:13 388:11 390:2,8 600:6,7 605:19,21 606:16,20,23 mouse 323:3 mouth 424:18,19 426:3 436:2 456:21 457:23 458:4,9 464:17 mouthful 366:13 mouthpiece 594:1,4 move 314:21 316:18 325:6 444:2 454:7 461:5 463:7 525:19 534:1 moved 417:1 428:18 433:1,2,6 499:19 movement 461:25 463:2 moves 433:7,9 469:23 movies 345:3 moving 515:8 518:16 568:13 MSHA 406:24 muco 458:7 mucociliary 458:8,10 mucous 458:2,4,7 multibillionaire 557:19 multiple 333:20 351:23 365:11 375:8 384:12 Muriel 580:10 muscles 445:10 461:13 museums 369:12 mushroom 409:18 mushrooms 407:6,7 mutations 479:8 N N-E-T-T-E-R 474:17 N-l-O-S-H 384:19 naked 455:9 459:13,23 460:2 named 334:23 351:17 368:15 389:6 466:4 556:19 names 394:9 407:10 462:22 560:18 Napoleon 571:7 Nate 315:1 334:3,19,21,23 Index: mixes..nonasbestiform Nathan 334:20 National 340:18,23 343:10 384:20 446:25 448:20 449:22 450:2 484:25 485:1 556:7 581:19 586:20 naturally 402:10,13,16,18 462:14 465:17 533:12 nature 324:18 462:11,13 544:2 566:22 nausea 327:5 navy 421:2 434:13,20 necessarily 469:12 505:4 537:17 neck 475:14 needed 328:16 563:15 570:8 needing 589:25 needles 367:1 negative 358:25 negligent 349:19 neighborhood 579:16 583:21, 23 nerves 326:17 445:11 Netter 474:16,17,20 475:15 Netter's 474:19,22 Newhouse 580:11 news 573:25 newspapers 580:20 nice 591:2 nicknames 485:21 Nicolet 427:7 night 414:5 613:8 NIOSH 384:19 387:5 393:20 407:1 Nobody's 399:23 nodes 475:1,11,12,13,16,20,23, 24 476:25 nohow 360:14 nonasbestiform 406:5,24 407:1,21 520:8,13,16 523:17,21 524:23 525:1 nonasbestos 406:21 563:6,11 nondisclosure 591:23 nonfibrous 406:25 523:13 nonmalignant 337:11 nonoccupational 582:10 583:2 Nordenham 573:1 normal 477:4,17,25 486:22 487:10 489:14 493:17 494:10 572:15,25 574:5 North 443:2 northern 558:3 Northwest 545:12 Norway 519:19 nose 456:21,22 464:17 483:9 531:22 note 440:21 516:8,10 543:6 noted 368:6 565:18 566:16 572:9 573:3 577:16 588:16 590:24 591:1 notes 438:25 500:11 550:3 553:4 576:7 notice 595:22 596:3,24 605:8, 16 607:3 noticed 431:6 noticing 465:25 noting 568:12 576:6 nuclear 484:8 nucleus 481:22 482:2,5,7 484:8,16 490:24 number 348:3 372:2 421:22 423:1,7 446:22 463:12 467:1 475:22 481:1 486:10 501:5 506:17 507:23 509:5 511:7,8 529:20 538:10 545:14 560:25 572:19,21 579:19 582:17 583:21 numbers 536:18 587:13,20,21 numerous 323:23 nursing 579:12 nutrients 481:7 O Object 527:9 602:25 603:13 606:2 objecting 592:1,2,6 594:6 606:8 objection 444:4,8 451:8,9 513:14,15,19 515:5,10 522:17 533:21,24 542:8,21 547:20,25 552:25 553:1,3 564:10,11 587:24,25 588:3 591:21 592:22 593:9 602:12 603:6,23 604:2 605:1,11 613:14 objections 612:24 objective 416:7 obligations 412:20 observe 571:16 obtained 591:14 obvious 583:6 586:6 occasion 562:10 587:3 600:20 occasional 432:5 occasionally 323:21 362:25 407:7 557:2 604:21 occasions 584:6 occupation 566:23 occupational 340:3,18 384:20 509:10 554:8 556:20,22 557:18 561:5 562:2 564:7 568:14 572:8 573:8,22 576:11 577:9,19 579:6, 18 580:4,16 581:22 582:11,23, 25 584:5 585:3 586:14,21 occur 402:9,12 486:25 523:13 529:20 occurred 325:18 580:22 occurring 402:10,16,19 462:14 465:18 578:2 occurs 337:15 343:20,22 344:15 476:13 Ocean 443:2 oddly 462:15 Offer 451:5 536:25 537:2 552:23 564:6 587:8 591:19 offhand 589:16 Index: nonasbestos..order Office 328:3 378:15 413:16 415:20 416:3,19 417:7,12 423:22 433:9,11 Officer 557:22 558:8 Official 555:25 602:16 officials 583:16 offsite 417:4 Ohio 445:20 Oil 366:16 383:9 old-timers 559:22 Older 362:5 571:6 Oldest 569:24 olive 383:9 one-one-thousandth 336:2 one-year 327:12 ongoing 447:19 onion 336:17,18,19,22,23 open 437:23 438:4 444:22 448:6 461:7,8 549:17,21 opened 488:3 585:5 opening 314:5,7,9 317:18 376:7 379:12 382:6 431:8 432:10 433:17 435:14 559:25 564:25 opens 458:24 460:16,23 471:11 operated 557:21 operation 558:2 operations 348:6 opinion 367:17 390:8 396:25 501:22 520:11 536:25 537:3 591:6 605:7,15 607:2 608:19 opinions 436:16 450:7 452:20 502:15,22,24 526:22 611:6,7 opportunities 559:18 opportunity 314:14 433:12 446:5 450:1 opposed 490:23 opposite 399:25 586:18 optical 363:2 604:23 orangey 401:22 order 366:6 425:12 455:4,7 484:1 571:8 580:15 590:7 612:9 orders 536:1 588:2 ordinary 570:12 ore 466:2 organ 468:4 organization 340:24 385:2 555:17 556:13 557:10 562:16,17 586:19 organizations 341:3 365:11 556:3 organized 556:22 578:16 organizes 486:6 orient 500:12 522:23 oriented 514:21 original 494:4 581:13 originally 426:2 442:24 553:11 Orleans 447:9 455:13 OSHA 340:9 368:6,9 406:23 561:5 585:3,17,19,20,21,23 586:6,12,20 outline 335:7 outlining 462:10 481:15,16 outset 430:18 outsourced 417:2 oval 462:15 oven 328:11 overdose 470:7 overflow 497:20,22 overly 341:4,5 overvests 434:14 overwhelming 376:2 owned 356:19,22,23 393:18 557:20 oxygen 456:19 461:4,12,15,17, 23 463:2,7 464:21 489:6,7,10, 11,16,20,22 491:9 498:19,21 524:16 P P-1 444:9 P-122 601:15 P-L-E-U-R-A 453:18 p.m. 614:5 p53 485:18 486:2,5,9 488:14,20 492:24 Pacific 545:12 pack 368:18 498:15 packaged 412:16 packs 324:21 498:11 page/lines 612:20 pages 566:12 paid 373:23 Paige 378:19 pain 326:17,18 327:5 painful 338:21 414:22 paint 570:20 paints 421:15 pair 419:10 pairs 484:21 pan 418:18 Panel 487:6 paper 367:16 368:3 369:4 372:23,24 373:1 384:21 404:7 509:13 512:5,19 518:3 541:14 542:6 572:8 583:8 paperbound 581:14 papers 315:4 343:7 347:10 367:15,23 386:19,24 443:23 444:22 447:4 448:3 449:8,14 471:21 485:17 523:9 574:25 579:1 paragraph 510:22 514:3 515:22 523:12 539:23 parallel 520:14 523:16 parenchyma 459:7,9 Parliament 569:14 Parliaments 498:9 part 335:23 356:24 369:21 385:2 420:25 425:12 436:15 441:7 446:15 449:10 465:4 530:5 555:11 558:12 559:1 585:19 Index: orders..pay 587:17 593:7 594:13 598:7 599:6 613:4 part-time 348:12 particles 363:6,9,10 456:23,24 457:22 464:19,25 531:15,21 539:6 parties 376:16 440:22 508:15 609:4,8,15 612:24 partner 368:20 parts 344:14 356:6 370:17 384:3 432:21 445:10 party 332:13 388:17 551:13,15 pass 333:23 378:10,16 438:10 527:21 534:19 609:6 passed 327:11 486:4 passing 473:23 past 341:11 353:23,25 354:12 358:13,24 369:7 372:25 457:2 458:13 464:16 531:22 545:18 591:13 patch 326:18 patching 585:11 path 327:9 pathologist 350:2 351:20 521:17 pathologists 567:13 pathology 351:21 444:15 446:1,2 447:1,3,11,16 451:6 521:19 567:19 paths 402:18 pathway 458:21 462:1 486:6 patience 314:18 patient 584:3 patients 328:19 346:25 526:13 584:2 patrol 464:23 pattern 424:15 466:16 474:21 476:17 pause 454:22 459:1 paused 459:10 pay 333:17 375:25 378:12,13 448:9,11 582:22 pediatrics 390:9 peer 449:1,13 523:8 peer-reviewed 343:7 351:23 368:23 370:23 449:7 509:12 541:14 peers 449:6 peg 573:25 pending 550:25 551:2 Pennsylvania 583:16 people 315:20 319:11 320:7,16 321:11,17 326:10 330:4 331:5 333:17 335:3 337:8 338:19 340:11,12,16 341:7,9,10 345:17, 18,25 347:16 348:10 349:12,14 352:14 353:12 356:12 359:15,21 363:23,24 364:15 372:21 373:10,15 374:11 375:13 381:9, 10,18 382:10,12,21 384:2,18 388:4,8 390:4 391:2 393:22 394:6 398:12,15,24,25 399:3,5, 6,20 402:22 403:13 405:13 406:9 409:15 412:19 415:15 422:8 426:14,16 427:16 428:7, 13 431:15 433:25 438:10 443:11 446:18 469:2,4,11 470:16,22 475:21 480:7 481:5 493:1 496:6 498:10 503:2 505:5,18 509:17 518:18 519:2,5,6,12 533:13 538:6,19,22 555:18,19 557:1 560:11,14 562:10 563:4,19 564:3,4 566:5,8,20 568:18,21,22 570:6,16 571:1 572:14,20 574:3 575:7 576:8 577:18,21 579:10, 11,21 581:3 582:4,22 583:12,20, 24 586:12 601:24 602:3,8 603:1 606:20 609:9 percent 338:19 339:15 350:8 353:24 363:11 368:8 370:7,11 383:6 391:23 402:15 404:18,19, 20 405:2,6 448:22 461:14 465:22 479:16,19,22,23 496:6 500:23 518:1,7,10,14 562:20 568:20 572:25 574:3,7 percentage 341:8 358:17 370:5,7 470:23 perched 462:8 perfect 354:3 425:16,22 426:11 427:2 perfectly 490:22 performed 323:21 537:24 545:11 performing 323:25 517:18 performs 392:18 period 318:14 323:23,24 325:18,19,21 356:17 358:10 408:22 415:12 416:23 417:11, 12,14 422:6,18 423:3 455:15 490:19 510:17 568:25 572:18 574:2 periods 524:11 permanent 456:4 permanently 348:5 permissible 340:12 351:1 585:16 permission 508:20 permit 340:9 438:1 586:15 597:4 608:22 permitted 438:22 548:15,16,17 549:19,20 persist 523:24 persistent 467:2 person 319:11,13,16 324:8,9 327:20 334:22 343:19 354:1 365:25 373:19 400:5 422:20 464:13 469:9 488:19 490:17 494:19,22 495:2,3,6 497:6,8,11 498:5 504:9 507:1 529:21 530:2 532:3 544:20 572:13 person's 464:10 497:5,13 498:16 personally 400:3 404:5 414:17 persons 348:4 perspective 400:2 413:2 persuaded 364:9,10 pertain 502:1,3 Peter 379:18 Peterson 601:22 petition 371:20 394:19 585:10 Ph.d. 442:7 443:10 445:12,19 526:10 552:1 phage 464:23 Index: pediatrics..places pharmaceutical 356:16 367:19 Pharmacology 523:6 phases 516:2 phones 333:18 385:14 438:24 550:2 photo 550:1 photographs 438:18 photography 438:21 physician 496:3 physicians 444:17 physiology 451:7 pick 329:20 332:12 461:18 560:13 picked 387:11 414:2 476:3,11 579:11 picking 409:13 picks 461:16 picture 315:13 343:13 344:12 394:8 406:10 441:9 455:11 456:10 457:13 459:2 467:20 472:5 477:12 559:25 pictures 374:18415:21 451:19 459:13 460:12 piece 325:4 349:4 455:14 456:6 460:15 477:1 479:15 486:1 pieces 328:18 419:21 420:15 pileup 333:15 piling 597:11 pills 383:9 pioneers 559:19 pipe 400:12,23 402:23 431:2,3 501:10 pipes 385:19 400:20 431:1 434:1 435:10,13 562:19 piping 324:1 Pistamka 583:9 place 323:22 337:15 399:1 419:6 448:10 463:5 486:21 487:1 562:25 584:20 613:16 places 353:11 369:11 384:4 388:11 407:8 443:24 465:19 473:3 562:1 plaintiff 400:9 551:18 608:5 plaintiffs 385:18,23 386:15 435:14 plaintiffs 379:11 382:16 390:3 392:22 401:14 403:16 428:9 431:7,12 432:10 441:17 442:1,8 552:2 plaintiffs' 362:1 376:7 384:25 386:1,20 389:20 390:14 391:23 395:3 397:23 401:6 402:3 403:11 500:24 514:25 515:13 542:23 552:24 587:8 590:16 591:19 601:2 plan 610:1 plans 317:11 412:24 558:9 plant 400:7,10,16 407:9 413:6 432:20 433:2,3,6,10,13 435:6,8 583:4 plants 432:6,8 plaque 337:13 plaques 337:16,19 351:16 plaster 400:20 plastics 383:12 433:2 platy 382:24 plausible 543:22,24,25 play 549:7 574:20 played 400:19 playground 373:9 pleased 556:13 pleura 325:2 337:13 339:10 453:18,19,23 454:15,20 456:7, 13,14,15 458:17,20 462:1 472:22,24 474:23 476:12,13,18, 24 477:2,5,9,25 478:5,6 495:15 574:4,6,12 pleural 324:25 325:8 337:13,16, 19 338:1,2,6 351:16 511:12 528:21 574:12 575:22 576:7,25 PLM 391:6 394:2 403:18 plot 415:9 plumbing 431:3 pneumonia 567:1 point 316:24 329:24 343:23 377:14 414:9 459:11 499:22 502:10 524:1 545:6 564:22 580:7 612:10 pointed 338:7 505:8 573:2 pointer 457:12 pointing 435:18 points 365:11,18 413:1 429:8 545:22 555:5 559:13 565:9 poison 321:2 352:24,25 353:1 407:9 poisonous 407:8 409:19 poking 477:13,15 polarized 370:14 policy 562:3 564:8 pollen 464:5,15 pollutant 333:2 polluted 348:8 pollutes 333:5,6 pollution 553:15 580:7 pond 333:3,6 Pooley 389:6 392:2 399:7,12,13 509:7,23,24 511:18 popular 580:19 population 345:16 560:10 574:6 575:4,13 579:11 583:7 populations 518:17,21,24 540:12 574:24 portion 363:5 369:13 402:20 position 342:5,6,9 356:1 445:24 447:7,15 495:12 499:25 positions 443:23 positive 374:13 595:13,16 597:2 possibility 321:19 353:17 354:4 361:5 363:17 605:8,16 possibly 314:24 356:13 412:22 575:11 612:12 613:21 post 428:18 post-doctoral 445:20 potential 320:24 321:21,24 331:6 333:2 345:22 355:17,20 Index: plaintiff..prescreened 357:21 358:6 363:13 364:4 423:14 494:18 563:21 potentially 322:9 327:25 423:10 429:17 570:7 607:4 pounds 326:19,20 pour 424:23 425:23 426:11 poured 425:10 powder 318:2 323:6,8,13,14 327:17 329:8,10,14,18,22,23,24, 25 330:9,11,14,16,22 342:4,7 344:7 354:5 355:4 356:2 358:1 359:10 360:2,11,13 361:14 362:13,20,24 363:18,19 364:14 365:13 367:8 368:13 369:10,17, 19 372:11 381:11,15 382:13,18 383:20 387:3 390:8,9 398:14,23 408:20 410:15,16,18 419:1 502:11 508:6 510:17,25 514:4,6 516:1 519:1,3,13 541:18 542:23 543:14 587:4 589:3,15,18 590:4 591:9 594:24 604:10,20 powders 588:17 powerful 580:10,12 Powerpoints 429:24 441:15 practice 345:25 416:5 417:1 566:20 practiced 554:7 precaution 322:9 precautions 322:5 519:15 571:2 precision 407:11 prefer 610:16 preferred 361:18 preliminary 386:16 preparation 369:7 371:4,9,12 372:6 prepare 328:8 365:25 366:6 370:17 378:13 417:10 prepared 464:10 preparing 328:22 prescreen 543:9 prescreened 514:17 515:20 516:6 517:3 541:25 543:5 544:8, 10 prescreening 516:16 presence 392:24 438:2 464:24 472:13 608:25 present 323:25 325:10 330:25 331:25 332:2 366:23 561:13 presentation 451:16,24 452:2 509:13 582:10 presentations 578:20 presented 509:9 567:1 579:3 presenting 315:1 presently 326:22 363:6 president 362:10 press 364:17 580:19,20,25 581:4 pressing 326:16 561:4 pressure 475:9 534:11 pretrial 533:23 pretty 421:12 479:8 prevent 554:2 preventable 554:2 559:8 preventing 345:20 559:8 previous 459:5 previously 507:6 508:13 513:4 516:20 522:2 590:25 primarily 350:10 primary 317:3 573:4,6 Princeton 388:10 print 321:8 prior 389:7 589:17 595:18 priority 585:8 privilege 334:4 430:7 problem 335:22 359:16,23 363:14,22 364:5 365:5 372:19 404:22 405:11 422:16 429:5 472:18 504:1 548:3 555:20 564:2 593:16 problems 426:15,17 486:25 541:13 554:9 procedure 546:16 procedures 409:12 proceed 451:10 564:12 588:5 589:4 proceedings 478:17 481:13 548:9 600:18 608:4 614:5 process 314:17,19 348:19 384:10 424:12 426:10 427:25 439:23 446:16 485:3 486:4,17 490:15 494:16 496:22 497:21 498:17 processed 384:8 565:21 590:6 processes 384:8 processing 348:1 582:15 procure 468:17 produce 463:15 470:17 produced 348:7 357:23 497:13 507:20 producers 565:8 produces 498:19 producing 487:24 488:2 508:9 product 319:25 320:10,13 321:15,20,22,25 322:4,6,23 323:1,6,8,10,17 328:6,23 330:17,20 348:18 349:2 352:21, 22 355:3 363:7 364:2 366:2 374:17 381:11,17 382:21 383:1, 2 384:12 390:11 394:18 396:5, 23 397:1 408:3 409:3 412:14 420:18 427:1,5 428:24 429:3,17 501:1 502:8 528:22 530:14 535:12 536:25 537:22 540:3,7 585:9 590:9 production 348:1 396:15 563:10 582:15 590:3 products 319:23 320:17 322:14,17,19,21 332:3 335:15, 21 337:10 339:14,16,21 348:7, 16 350:9,10 352:19 356:17 366:1 380:14 381:7,8,21,22,23 383:8,10 385:22 391:24 396:3 399:4,21 400:23,25 415:21 418:18 421:14 430:20,21 434:24 501:4,6,14,17 502:3 527:8,14 530:17,21,24 531:1 537:11 544:20 545:20,23 563:5,6,11,24 583:5 585:12,15 590:3 609:9 professional 412:20 426:24 436:9 552:18 Index: p re s c re e n in g ..p ro v e professionally 443:12 444:13 professionals 428:7 professor 444:13 445:24,25 447:8,15,16 448:5,14 professors 448:15 500:9 profit 319:19 320:14 program 327:25 363:4 progressed 316:23 prohibits 438:17 projects 434:25 447:19 prominence 569:18 prominent 449:20 561:3 573:10 574:24 promoted 447:11 pronounced 446:7 proof 327:8 410:6 504:12 proper 347:25 426:7 550:22 582:14 properly 320:8 321:16 426:7,15 properties 336:17 524:3 570:11,20 property 524:4,14 proportion 476:10 proposed 368:6 proposition 333:9 prosecuted 557:16,24 prospective 411:16,21 421:7 prosthetics 429:15 protect 321:11,17 322:5 340:14 483:9 488:13 489:24 561:9 protected 488:23 protecting 353:5 390:5 557:17 protection 357:9 561:7 585:1, 24 protective 362:12 482:10 protects 482:7 485:24 proud 556:10 prove 331:17 332:4,6 359:9 376:1 471:22 509:19 proved 346:9,11 provide 372:14 448:10 449:23 450:13 provided 514:6 556:6 560:18 595:18 600:9 601:19 providing 429:14 Prudential 566:15 pry 424:21 public 319:24 320:13,20 321:7 323:17 365:10 384:19 553:21,23 554:1 555:7,20,22 561:9 562:3 564:8,16 570:15 571:4 578:25 605:15 607:2 publication 342:12 345:9 565:11 568:1 569:19 publications 354:7 566:1 publicity 580:23 publicized 347:10 580:18 publicly 558:14 559:9 584:12 598:15 599:17 publish 364:18 448:3,5 508:20 521:20,22 522:10 586:7 published 347:11,19,20 351:22 365:22 366:10,24 367:1,4 368:23 369:3 370:22 372:23,25 373:1 392:21 394:5 404:7 447:4 485:17 518:3 522:5 554:14,20, 25 556:15,21 558:14,24 559:22 560:5 565:17 566:10 567:18 568:17 569:16,20 570:1 571:24 572:2 574:24 575:3 576:13,15 577:14 580:11 581:8,15,23 584:11 585:6 publishes 585:21 publishing 529:16 puff 330:1 pull 332:18 424:22 476:4 522:22 pulled 542:3 pulmonary 351:21 568:5 574:10 pulmonologist 351:20 pulverize 534:11 pure 383:13 384:4,10 385:4 393:24 394:1 511:24 512:4 518:7,13 541:10 purple 486:18 purpose 315:25 451:17 purposes 419:18 422:2 522:15 529:16 pursuing 589:23 put 321:14 322:7,16 323:16 328:13 335:11,15 336:6 341:17 347:7 349:18 351:3 355:24 359:19 366:17 369:1 375:20 381:13 385:9,17 395:4 398:14 399:3 409:12,23 410:7,8 413:24 417:23 419:1,2 424:18 425:2,4, 21 433:19 455:16,22,25 456:9 470:3 479:15 481:5 497:18 505:20 506:16 511:17 514:23 552:17 581:9 588:8 605:7,16 607:3 612:3 putting 321:12 322:1,19 348:25 396:16 399:1 559:5 579:20 584:19 Q qualifications 595:5 qualified 593:21,23 594:3 qualifies 383:7 quality 383:22 466:3 556:7 590:5 quantification 535:19 quantities 363:1 604:22 quarter 422:22 question 326:6 327:16 386:5, 21 388:22 389:20 407:21 409:2 412:14 434:22 452:17 459:4,20 468:7 474:2 478:11 496:8 501:16 511:14 517:1 540:10 541:16 546:18 547:1,2 548:5,17, 18,22 585:19 590:1 591:12,16 597:15,24,25 598:16 599:2 601:3 604:4,5,6 605:12 606:7, 10,11,13613:23 questioning 528:14 584:6 592:6,8 questions 397:19 404:5,12 431:7 435:4 467:24 468:20,23 495:8 499:5,8 525:13 526:5 Index: proved..reaches 534:3,17,23,24 535:1,8,10,17 536:22 537:12,23,25 538:3,13, 14 540:18 544:13,15 545:25 546:3,12,15 548:11,15 588:18 589:22,23 591:1 594:23 607:7 quick 459:4 474:2 quickly 463:4 472:12 587:10 quit 327:7 R radiation 327:1 489:20 532:11, 16,19,20,21 radical 491:9 498:21 radicals 489:6,21 498:19 radio 432:20,21 radiology 566:2 radius 580:6 railroad 320:23 raise 442:6 551:23 raised 365:18 386:22,23 580:24 Ramazzini 556:18,19 557:5 ran 387:12 range 492:16 569:23 ranging 347:1 rapidly 455:24 rare 341:7 382:15 391:3 491:5 576:11 577:24 rat 352:24,25 353:1 457:9 471:10 473:21 537:24 538:3 rate 338:17,18 479:19,22,24 525:6,8 538:20 572:25 574:5 575:6 rates 479:25 480:8 549:9 ratio 523:16 Raton 443:3 rats 399:8 446:15,17 468:15 469:1 470:3 517:15 reach 350:21 reached 550:12,18 573:14 reaches 477:17,18 react 472:12 reaction 337:2 reactive 489:7,10,11,16,22 524:16 read 365:3 397:25 435:16 437:21 499:24 516:3 527:22 529:6 544:5 reading 578:23 587:1 589:25 605:5 reads 539:24 ready 314:10 376:18 379:3 412:1 441:11,12,23 546:19 551:8,17 real 341:20 351:8 352:5 359:22 369:15 375:6 384:16 394:7 397:4 399:5,17 405:12 436:1 559:18 577:20 582:22 610:6 realized 387:14 reason 357:5 408:9 429:3,16 431:22 436:19 483:15 484:15 537:6 551:14 575:10,14 591:12 600:23 reasonable 324:3 332:7,11 452:21 reasons 324:6 361:20 recall 354:11 529:1 535:10 537:12,25 538:14 544:22 590:13 receipts 416:5 receive 448:21 595:4 received 397:8,13 445:7 449:17,20,21 450:4 484:9 569:17 587:15 589:6 591:13 594:25 597:16 598:6,10 599:6 601:16 receives 550:25 receiving 397:6 585:10 recent 342:12 358:23 386:21 556:13 recently 327:1 354:6 372:5 375:19 601:16 606:14 receptors 465:1 recess 376:24 438:8 439:2,13 549:16,24 551:5 608:17 609:3 recesses 438:20 recklessly 319:12 recognition 565:24 recognize 443:14,17 465:1 601:25 recognized 571:3 recommendations 427:17,20 reconvene 376:9 record 367:22 379:6 408:14 411:25 430:1 439:6 441:16 442:21 500:3 513:13 550:8,21 recording 438:17,25 550:2 recordings 438:22 records 502:19 recreate 455:24 R E C R O S S -E X A M IN A T IO N 544:17 red 334:8,11,15 336:20 417:21 461:17 473:13,14,20,22 redirect 535:3,5 reduce 345:20 563:21 569:7 reduction 363:10 redundant 597:9 refer 318:20 409:5 reference 318:23 319:2 575:25 referenced 516:18 referred 510:12 referring 516:7,11 604:10 reflected 407:23 regard 361:24 437:5 469:21 470:25 495:22 regions 357:8 regular 348:1 582:15 regularly 449:14 regulated 584:22 regulating 585:2 regulation 367:20 368:7 584:18 586:7 regulations 561:8 584:19,25 regulatory 341:4 561:4 563:25 Index: react..repair reiterate 490:13 relatable 321:5 relate 555:15 related 347:23 402:16 483:23 527:17 542:24 555:22 567:1 578:13 582:12 612:14 relates 497:15 562:4 564:9 606:19 relating 561:18 relationship 430:9 relatives 575:9 release 364:17 377:4 549:13 581:4 released 461:20 530:25 531:2, 5,7 537:21 550:21 609:10 releases 502:9 580:25 581:5 relevance 598:25 relevant 547:2 reliance 594:14 rely 362:11 relying 515:18 remain 591:6 remained 561:3 remember 345:2 350:6 354:2 358:9 374:9 395:16 397:17 401:13 404:15 415:24 416:25 419:15 423:4 429:9 462:8 472:1 478:2 498:3 527:16 539:15 546:15 606:12 remembers 355:13,14 remind 453:5 reminded 483:3 489:2 remodel 433:14 remodeling 432:9 removal 402:23 remove 360:22,23 361:7 406:24 removing 363:5 render 316:11 rep air 463:5 483:7 488:15,17 492:23 repairing 494:19 repeat 422:11 587:13 repeated 590:7 repeatedly 343:9 replace 361:14 363:18 424:5 425:2 479:18 484:14 replacement 479:24 563:2 replacing 479:21 replication 486:20 reply 591:2 report 327:10 345:17 367:24 394:5 396:19 428:2,8 438:7 518:3 565:13,18 566:10,11,19 567:12,13 568:21,24 569:10,13, 17 573:25 576:7,17,24,25 608:25 reported 357:8 360:11,12 541:4 560:8 566:17 567:9,23 576:4,22 578:1 584:1 606:25 reporter 442:5 515:3 reports 358:3 389:9,12,13 563:16 565:17 566:16,17 568:2 571:20,24 572:3 573:17 575:18 583:12 595:13,16 597:2 repository 360:3 represent 334:4 412:10 representing 430:7 represents 453:18 459:16 461:3 reprint 347:10,12 581:11 republished 576:16 reputable 586:16 request 388:12 450:19 562:9 608:11 require 395:2 required 451:5 530:2 requirement 458:14 requires 371:25 research 336:10 340:20 367:3 376:16 385:1,5 386:17 387:1,4,6 388:6,14 392:2 447:25 448:18 449:25 545:13 547:16,17 548:2, 23,25 550:1 559:15,19,21 563:3 564:15 571:11 582:5 586:20 598:18 599:3,7 609:8 researched 349:1 558:14,20 researcher 347:6 364:22 365:1 researchers 346:20 347:13 388:11 559:10 reserve 608:18 resolve 440:14,15,20 609:21 613:6 resources 448:18 respect 316:1 322:12 323:5 594:12 595:5,17 respectful 412:22 respirable 363:8 respirator 322:10 respond 326:25 responded 394:22 550:17 response 496:16 497:2 498:24 527:12 549:5 553:25 565:16 588:23 597:16 responses 372:2 598:10 responsibilities 418:17 responsibility 436:14 606:3 responsible 319:13,16 332:13, 14,24 333:10,13,20 387:7 388:2 414:11 responsibly 423:17 429:2 rest 333:23,24 364:8 495:7 559:3 Restrict 600:15 result 374:22 447:24 540:24 resulting 487:19 results 374:14 396:1 resume 439:7 resumption 548:9 600:18 608:4 retailers 412:13 retained 500:15 501:21 retire 447:13 retired 317:12 368:16 447:10, 12,21 450:16 Index: repairing..rolls retirement 317:11 retract 364:13 revealed 584:6 review 376:13 393:9 449:1,7,15 528:13 548:10 588:14 603:9 reviewed 449:9 502:18 523:9 reviewer 449:13 523:8 reviewing 559:17 revised 406:23 reward 450:3 RG 373:22,23,25 374:5 ribcage 325:6 Richard 346:11 351:18 574:18, 20 576:22 riding 464:13 Rigler 368:15,22 373:14 403:24 404:20 407:19 610:1,11,14 611:7,11 612:3,7 613:23 rind 338:22 ring 425:5,8,15 426:4 rings 426:4 rise 314:1 376:20,25 379:7 439:3,14 441:19 550:6 551:6 rises 371:25 risk 341:8 342:4 348:11 386:7 395:13,15,18 398:19 399:5 503:8,10 519:24 538:17 570:9 575:15 580:15 583:7 585:17 risks 567:3 road 316:16,19 360:6 375:3 Robert 315:3,6 Robitussin 351:5,6 robust 488:20 rock 356:4 358:5 361:15 407:17 466:3,4 Roger 362:8,9 Roggli 521:11 522:4,24 523:12 role 549:7 564:16 roll 419:5 rolls 420:12 roof 421:15 roofing 409:8 room 314:17 315:20 353:15 376:10 461:1,5,12,15 506:13 608:16 roughly 523:16 round 462:24 rounds 326:21,23 327:1 375:8 rubber 383:12 417:25 rubbing 330:10 454:4 ruffled 463:24 rule 548:11 550:24 rules 320:15 ruling 612:25 rulings 612:11,12 run 373:8 455:23 612:4 rundown 553:9 runner 334:9 running 372:16 456:7 461:6,11 runs 453:17,22 475:1 rushing 461:1 Rutgers 365:21,23 368:10 resume 443:22 S sacrifice 411:22 safe 340:4,8,17,21,25 341:5,15, 21 346:6 347:15 350:17,24 351:13 352:1 354:18 355:7,23 358:16 389:5,11 390:10 392:19 393:9,13 422:12 503:24 504:2,5, 6,7,15,18 584:23 586:17 safely 414:9 429:14 safety 340:3,19 384:20 436:9 561:5 585:3,9 586:21 sailors 421:1 sales 584:4 saline 510:9 512:12 salt 374:9 saltwater 399:10,14 sample 367:25 404:6 408:17,24 455:22,24 516:20 517:3 542:5 samples 374:16 390:1 394:3,14 396:14,23 407:14 408:17 409:11 510:25 606:25 San 451:23 Sanchez 373:21,22 374:8 407:13 sane 570:9 Saran 325:4 453:19 Saturday 387:17 save 374:16 507:13 564:3 saved 374:15 scale 554:3 578:24 scanning 515:25 scapegoat 403:1 scare 360:17 scared 329:20 scarring 337:12,13 567:22 569:5 scenario 395:9 schedule 412:25 610:22 611:20 scheduled 439:24 scheduling 376:22 609:14 school 327:23 328:24,25 329:6 346:18 347:6 373:23,24 384:19 388:7 427:14 444:14,16 445:3, 25 447:8,17 448:5 553:12,19,20, 23 605:21 schools 448:16 science 387:21 390:16 392:14 393:8,10 398:9 399:18,19,24 402:14 405:12,13,15 407:11 445:4,8 448:8 449:5 485:20 545:24 553:22 556:7 Sciences 578:17 581:9,17 scientific 335:4 339:6 340:2 341:3 345:11 346:3 347:13 350:14 355:7 364:23 444:22 452:23,24 495:23 496:15 509:13 537:5 547:5 555:3 558:21 561:12 565:7 573:15 586:16 Index: roof.sell scientist 365:23 368:10,12,15 399:13 444:21 466:17 509:25 531:10 549:4 570:15 574:17 605:15 607:2 scientists 342:18 360:16 370:24 386:16 387:13 389:23 390:11,23 394:10 403:6,9,10 444:18 449:6,9 469:19 470:20 482:8 492:25 493:8,11 538:11 557:9 559:10 scissors 419:10 scope 596:9,12,13 599:8 Scott 441:15 scraped 484:12 scratch 334:14 screen 413:4 435:18 456:3 457:11 514:23 552:15 screw 425:12 seat 385:14 442:4 seated 314:2 377:1 379:10 439:15 441:21 442:11 551:9,10 552:5 seats 320:6 second-to-last 543:16 seconds 398:14,15 413:18,19 414:7 419:21 420:6,8,9,16 423:4,16 428:6,13,23 429:11 499:14 secrete 454:6 secretions 478:3 section 545:11 561:22 sections 540:1 security 378:8 sees 588:1 segments 480:2 selected 315:19 380:11 590:5 selective 383:25 384:5 Selikoff 347:4 360:10 386:14 390:2 418:7 427:12 560:4 561:3, 13,16 578:16 580:24 605:19 606:17,24 sell 319:22 320:10,13 412:13 selling 323:13 348:25 349:2 semester 416:12,13 send 378:12,14 417:4 605:24 sending 448:19 591:2 606:4 senior 327:24 368:20 416:12,13 427:14 sense 332:20,22 361:4 382:4,5, 9,15,19 392:17 393:1,2,3 398:14,20 399:19,20 402:24 403:3 405:2 410:2 415:23 444:11 504:1 519:11 546:8 sensitive 396:9 sentence 325:11 455:15 589:16 590:12 sentinel 495:24 496:11 separate 333:8 494:3,13 573:6 575:19 separated 391:25 separation 366:13 370:21 403:20 487:22 September 416:18 417:15 sequences 488:10 series 447:4 451:18 453:9 468:11 469:16 480:14 483:11 488:14 492:25 543:19 583:12 serpent-like 466:3 serpentine 465:24,25 466:4 516:2 539:15 serve 412:19 437:11 service 414:4 services 368:21 430:23,24 sessions 438:19 set 367:22 370:10 380:6,9 410:23 418:2,5,17,20,21,22,25 419:15 451:20 467:22 479:8 483:24 516:13 517:12 543:7 586:2 sets 489:20 setting 429:13 585:24 settlement 550:13,18 setups 417:17 sex 547:10,12,13,15 548:22,23 549:7 shaded 357:8 shadow 473:9 shaking 411:11 shape 473:22 shaped 462:15 sharing 558:4 she'd 432:22 she'll 376:10 sheets 374:19 562:19 Shelley 516:12 590:17 sheriff's 378:15 Shift 396:15 shiny 478:1,5 Ship 420:25 Ships 420:24 421:2 shipyard 578:2 583:4 shocked 578:24 Shoes 330:9,12 579:25 Short 318:14 323:23 372:16 408:22 437:7 472:4 480:2 481:19 487:17 569:6 576:18 612:15 shorten 415:8 shove 472:14 shoved 472:17 Show 315:25 316:20 319:4 320:21 322:13 323:9 326:14 331:17,25 335:10 349:17,20 359:6 360:5 361:20 364:11 365:9 375:4 379:25 380:13 389:22 391:8 393:3 400:22,23 402:25 410:14 428:9 429:7 451:21 454:13 457:4 458:18 469:4,22 472:21 473:1 479:16 484:19 487:22 489:4 493:5 498:12 502:10 508:12 513:3 514:22 521:22 522:19 548:13 560:12 565:6 566:7 593:22 594:3,11 598:22 601:14 Showed 344:12 350:6 359:4 361:17 369:4 387:4,5 392:13 395:16 427:22,25 446:13,14,16 Index: selling..similarly 468:3 471:21 474:7,8 476:2 478:2,25 491:8 517:4 539:25 542:2,7 559:25 560:20 564:25 566:4 579:17 shower 329:12 showing 399:24 468:9 474:20 475:16 477:16 487:7 579:3 593:12 Shown 384:22 415:20 516:21 519:24 539:5 540:6,12 541:17 542:24 551:2 590:9 Shows 332:2 341:6 343:14 371:11 444:7 453:12 477:12 508:19 510:9 513:11 515:12 553:2 shroud 388:22 shut 454:23 siblings 385:11 Sick 333:5 428:12 429:6 569:1 Side 314:6 318:12 380:19 394:7 405:8 431:4 487:9 614:3 sidebar 592:7 sidebars 600:20,23 Sides 338:10 380:18 520:14 523:17 siding 421:10 sight 375:5 Sign 314:4 321:5 538:17 Signal 465:3 484:9,13 495:24 496:8,11 signals 496:2 signature 326:4,9 327:13,18 338:2,3,4 466:14 significant 356:17 363:9 365:21 369:13 450:3 518:6 580:8 612:21 significantly 395:8 535:25 signs 569:8 silicon 466:15 silicone 425:11 Similar 356:8 396:10 407:6 similarly 332:10 594:22 simple 467:24 simplest 479:10 simply 419:10 487:21 496:17 591:4 Sinai 347:6 360:15 364:10,12, 16,18 386:14 388:11 390:2,8 600:6,7 605:19,21 606:16,21,23 Single 342:8 343:14 380:5 428:2,8 453:22 462:5,7 471:18 483:1 490:22,24 493:13 494:21 495:1 506:17 singled 415:21 Sink 320:2 497:18 Sir 346:11 414:25 415:2 442:5 517:1 550:19 551:23 574:17,20 Sit 424:20 432:22 437:15,17 524:22 Site 355:13 Sits 329:23 493:16 494:9 Sitting 317:1 410:25 449:14 454:3 460:17 461:2 463:24 464:20 492:19 493:13,25 494:5 situation 482:4 483:19 Size 473:22 506:3 531:16 536:5 554:24 sized 480:7 Skin 384:18 388:16 394:5 404:3 462:20 479:15,16,17 480:7 484:12,14 489:20,21,22 Skull 321:4 Slice 336:19 slicing 336:18 Slide 451:16,24 452:2 453:1 459:5 473:1 478:17 490:9,11,12 502:10 529:12,16,24,25 530:2 610:4 Slides 431:9 451:18,24 469:22 478:13 487:4 Slightly 370:15 558:6 slippery 454:6 slipping 330:10 slow 327:2 slurry 366:19 small 455:14 457:16 459:12 470:22 471:12 473:18,24 474:12,22 475:12 476:8 504:24 smaller 425:7 455:9 462:24 smell 337:6 smoke 337:22 490:1 496:6 575:12 smoked 324:21 498:10 smoker 458:3 498:3 smokers 486:12,14,15 496:7 smoking 324:20 337:23,25 338:10 346:10 427:18,19 486:12 498:3,5,7,12 574:25 575:7,9,11, 14 smooth 462:13 sniff 336:20 snippets 398:2 snips 414:6 423:16 429:11 Society 341:2 509:11 socks 330:8,12 sodium 466:16 soft 382:24 soil 385:24 406:18 sold 322:15 323:14,17 348:16, 17 349:11 356:25 360:2 397:7 412:16 430:20 585:15 solid 425:15 solidifies 424:21 solved 564:2 solvent 570:20 somebody's 488:17,19 someone's 431:17 544:24 sooner 612:17 sort 327:24 333:4 360:9 364:10 366:15 415:9 436:14,20 445:11 467:24 470:15 510:23 519:13 526:13 531:12 sorting 485:3 soulmate 375:17,18 Index: simple..spin soulmates 317:10 sound 467:23 532:5 sounds 440:11 545:17 596:19 598:24 599:1 source 396:5 454:11 502:13 580:7 sources 332:6 383:15 454:12 south 346:25 394:9 446:7 563:14 576:25 578:19 space 459:22 460:18,20 461:1 462:6,7 472:18,19,23 478:4 492:4 507:13 spaces 458:14,19,22 460:16,24 461:14,21 463:6,16 473:18,24 span 422:17 470:24 speak 314:15 317:14 328:11 443:24 512:22 speaker 410:23 speakers 433:7 speaking 507:19 523:22 545:10 speaks 542:10 spec 409:1 special 462:22 481:6 species 489:7,10,11,16 524:16 specific 346:23 351:23 352:17 402:17 466:16 480:1 502:7,11, 12 527:11,20 532:21,23,25 537:3 specifically 347:18 362:19 527:16 571:21 575:17 590:5 specifications 382:25 specifics 343:2 speculate 548:17 551:14 600:22 speculation 602:25 605:2 spell 552:10 spelled 524:7 spending 368:19 spent 334:9 spiked 408:4 409:11,14 spin 359:20 397:24 spinning 397:24 spit 457:23 458:6 splitting 596:20 spoke 386:15 527:3 561:20 spoken 526:15 608:8 sponge 456:11 sponsored 545:16 578:11 spontaneous 533:8,9 spontaneously 533:5 spot 471:14,24 485:6 spots 471:19,22 spray 400:24 501:12 spread 326:15 478:9 spring 589:7,10 sprinkling 505:13 sprue 425:4 426:5 squared 536:4 squares 460:20 462:11,12 squeezes 338:23 Staff 549:25 stage 384:12 stained 486:18 staining 401:23 Stand 315:24 410:24 423:17 442:3,9 499:14 552:3 571:7 610:10 standard 332:7 391:11 406:24 518:23 585:6 586:2,10 standardized 426:21 standards 324:8 391:9 393:14 396:12 426:21 585:21 stands 333:9 start 314:16 327:19 328:17 377:15 381:4 408:7 410:9 416:16 437:17 463:4 493:21 498:7 530:13 542:20 569:6 583:2 584:19 593:11 Started 315:16 327:24 344:5,7 369:6 378:6 416:11 427:13 437:15 445:21 447:25 450:10 468:11 495:3 500:14 537:10 564:3 567:15 578:23 582:6 585:2 Starting 333:5 383:17 394:16 571:16 582:22 Starts 386:12 498:5 539:23 state 356:20 357:11 425:16 442:21 445:20 552:10 564:18 593:14 599:6 Stated 340:19 345:10,18 516:20 522:4 589:20 statement 382:6 386:24 387:1 431:9 432:10 433:17 435:15 515:19 560:1 565:1 statements 314:5 317:18 364:13 376:7 557:2 States 319:20 340:24,25 341:10 357:8 382:11 406:17,19 422:8 555:21 563:24 566:2 568:6,9 570:1 571:25 573:13 574:16 576:16 578:8 584:19 585:13 statistical 574:23 statistically 580:8 statistics 560:24 566:10,25 574:14 Stay 375:9 406:8 411:8 610:15 staying 484:7 stays 524:10 544:25 Stem 425:4,25 Step 530:13 stepdaughter 317:16 Steps 383:22 530:1 sterilized 381:8 Stick 424:19 Sticky 330:10 stipped 592:4 stipulate 508:16 stipulated 508:17 513:7,14 522:12,13 587:18 591:20 592:14,22 606:9 stipulations 550:23 stitch 381:9 stone 424:24 Index: spinning..studies stood 460:9 stop 368:19 380:15 411:20 427:18 440:11 Stopped 357:15 564:1 Stopping 607:25 608:1,13 Stops 486:3,4 storage 472:19 store 583:5 story 318:18 324:12 327:21 342:2 364:8 380:18,20 385:7 386:12 387:12 410:1 465:5,7 495:7 560:15 574:21 straight 367:22 472:5 strategic 420:22 stream 321:12 322:7 Street 368:12 387:15 430:16,17 streets 423:9 stress 331:10 stretch 499:14 stretched 505:9 strike 455:22 Strikes 498:7 striking 574:9 Strip 328:5 348:14,18 Strips 328:8,16 413:20 417:9,24 419:5,7,10 strollers 320:5 strongly 331:20 struck 572:7 structural 449:24 483:11 549:6 structure 466:18,21 521:7 structures 457:17 Stuck 426:3 474:6,9 Student 588:13 598:21 606:5 students 444:17 446:3,4 448:13 451:21 Studied 343:6 345:18 398:11,17 399:4 485:16 525:2 554:7 Studies 384:22 398:18,24 407:24 468:22 507:18,20 508:5 511:17 517:14,15,18 518:4,16, 17 519:9,18,22,24 537:24 541:13 543:3 545:4,19 565:6 574:23 578:20 599:23 Study 343:5 345:16 346:25 352:12,17,20,25 393:21 398:9, 10 399:7,12 404:7 422:25 445:5, 20 446:2,23 447:2 479:5 481:1, 11 507:25 509:2 510:4 511:5,17 512:15,16,24 513:22,24,25 514:2,9,10,21 519:1,10 539:24, 25 541:22,25 543:15 545:7,16 553:24 554:1 560:6,11,16,17 561:1 568:16 570:5 575:3,8 577:4 579:4 580:10 584:1 599:14 Studying 481:9 606:24 stuff 365:3 412:13 417:4 418:10 424:19 570:22 600:12,14 612:9 subconsciously 500:10 subgroups 405:17 subject 438:3 552:22 562:7 569:15 588:15 subjects 547:19 548:25 569:23 submit 550:22 submitted 438:5 549:22 569:13 608:20 subsequent 563:25 568:1 subsequently 557:18 subsidiary 356:23 362:10 substance 454:6 463:16 557:4 substances 370:1 508:2 510:5, 7 511:6 571:14 573:21 substantial 415:17 substitute 563:1 substitutes 556:15 562:18 subtrace 362:25 604:22 successful 448:4 succinct 375:3 suddenly 389:21 405:22 563:7 sufficient 331:2 494:21 495:1 sugar 506:3,10,14,16 536:5 suggested 391:5 suggests 401:25 suited 424:5 summary 357:7 552:18 summer 368:16 416:16 sun 334:10 489:19 Sundt 411:14 sunglasses 334:10 superfine 541:5 supplier 397:8 supplies 412:12 423:20 448:12 supply 427:6,9 support 448:14 supported 450:2 supposed 322:24 323:4 418:19 483:25 484:2 485:5,7,11 486:24 487:18 488:7 489:13 570:18 supposedly 388:23 suppress 360:25 361:7 suppressed 581:4 Suppression 569:12 suppressor 483:6 485:21 surely 568:7 surface 455:23 457:4,14,19 460:21 471:17 476:18 478:2 487:19 488:1 491:18 493:14 494:5 505:11,12 524:19,25 571:20 surfaces 462:13,14,20,22 464:24 479:23 Surgeon 340:22 surpassed 391:9 surprised 372:12,13 514:16,19 541:15 543:5 surprising 372:12 surrounds 325:5 482:7 survey 357:13 568:18 surveys 361:17 560:14 survival 338:17,18 survive 338:15 586:7 Index: study..talc survived 492:1,2,3 survivors 579:9 susceptibility 483:19,22 488:22 susceptible 468:19 483:19 488:19,21 504:10 suspected 573:22 sustain 348:3 533:24 582:17 602:11 603:6 605:11 sustainable 369:15 sustains 542:21 sutures 381:9 swallow 457:23 458:6 sweaty 329:13 330:10 swept 457:22 458:4 swirl 366:19 Swiss 557:20 switch 361:19 429:24 498:8 sworn 442:9 552:3 sympathetic 380:7 sympathies 414:24 415:2 sympathy 380:3 410:8 Symposium 509:10 synchronous 457:20 synergistic 427:19 system 316:1 319:19 339:9 475:8 476:20 T table 368:2 408:12 511:4 512:19 521:14 540:19,22 576:6 tables 435:8 tail 464:1 takes 326:2 431:10 469:8 470:21 505:16 590:2 taking 361:13 396:14 437:10 438:18 481:4 483:13 505:12 550:1,3 talc 323:16 339:24,25 342:21 354:4 356:3,6,8,11,13,22 357:1, 4.19.22.23 358:1,5,14,18 talking 319:2 353:10 359:1 359:11,24 360:22,23,24,25 362:19 363:9 366:3 370:8 361:1,5,6,13,19 362:9,24 363:6, 397:20 405:1,4 406:22 414:6 16,18 365:4,5,12,16,25 366:6,18 415:10 421:24 427:14 428:7 368:1,4 369:7 370:8,11,18 433:18 435:20 447:19 455:7 371:6,19,21,24 372:5,19,22 459:12 478:24 491:3,4,21 513:2 380:14 382:22,23 383:2,4,5,6,8, 524:16 525:3 527:23 528:2 10.11.13.21.24 384:1,4,7,8,11, 533:8 536:3 538:5 544:7 545:7 13.23 385:4 386:18,21 387:22 547:18 555:25 558:4 559:13 388:1,5,13,15 389:5,16,18 567:5 572:3 574:11 576:4 577:4, 390:6,24 391:24 392:19 393:4,8, 21 584:2 593:16 596:17 598:14 13.22.23 394:11,25 395:3,14,18, talks 371:5 372:25 373:2 374:24 21.24 397:9 398:7,20,21 399:1, 3,6,8,10,12,17 402:25 403:1,7, 403:25 418:17 595:7 13 404:1,6 405:9,20,21,22,25 tape 318:19 327:16 328:5,13 407:24 409:6,10 501:22 502:2,4 335:19 339:17 344:6 346:14 510:6,7,8,12,13,16 511:19,22,25 348:14,22 349:5,18 350:23 512:16,25 514:4,5,12,14,22 352:12,15,16 413:17,20,22,24 515:19 516:5,20 517:3,6,10 414:7,13 417:14,24 418:24 519:6,11,18 527:4,11,14,20 419:2,4,20,23 420:7,12 422:24 528:19,22 529:4 530:20 537:24 423:2,15,16 425:8,9 426:6 427:5 539:25 540:15 541:4,9,18,24 428:18,20,22 429:12,14 435:9, 542:9,23,25 543:9,14 544:2,3 10,11 436:23,24 437:1 561:19,22 587:4 589:12,23 590:4,6 591:3 593:14,20 596:7,8 599:11 602:23 604:1,20 605:17 target 445:16 458:15 477:18 498:16 606:25 607:4 tasked 315:18 talc-induced 544:1 taste 337:6 talcs 367:4,18,19 604:18 taught 329:15 444:16 talcum 357:25 360:1 508:6 519:1 588:17 talk 315:18 317:21,24 318:9 329:8 334:5,24,25 343:1 354:8 359:24 360:23,24,25 366:14 369:2 372:17,24 376:16 378:19 380:15 384:16 385:7 413:1,5,11, 15 418:6 422:25 427:12 432:14 435:15,24 436:3,5 437:12 438:2, 9 444:24 451:22 465:11 469:5, 20.23 474:1,15 477:20 478:19 479:3,4 480:3 483:5 492:4 495:19 512:20,21 514:20 519:8 520:19,21 531:11 533:9 549:16, 19.20.24 555:10 564:14 575:17 593:21 594:24 595:16 603:19 604:15 609:4 614:2 talked 319:9 330:23 331:9 347:20 354:16 355:9 363:17 376:12 380:4 401:18 410:10 418:7 421:7 427:22 428:15 433:22 467:5 507:18 525:3 527:18 535:20 561:25 576:24 578:13 594:14,16 597:10 599:16 teach 388:8 teaching 446:3 team 390:21 tearing 419:9 teaser 360:9 technical 421:25 531:2 technician 348:13 413:21 418:9,13 technicians 347:22 348:12 418:8 427:23 428:4,5 technique 348:20 392:4 techniques 360:4 369:6 396:8, 9,10 technological 586:8 technologically 585:22 Technology 315:11 teed 439:21 teenage 498:6 Index: talc-induced..testifying teenagers 334:18 teeth 424:2,5,8 Teflon 437:1 telephone 385:12 televising 438:17 telling 331:7 344:19 368:12 426:1 427:15,16 456:17 457:22 481:14 485:15 493:15 498:20 509:17 571:9 598:1 tells 316:13 321:2 TEM 390:25 391:9 394:2 396:18 403:18 temporarily 348:5 temporary 585:6 ten 325:22 398:14 431:25 459:16 553:19 575:5,12 ten-year-old 346:17 tend 358:15 474:10 tens 355:4 448:20 459:14 term 364:10 365:15 405:16 421:25 459:5 521:3 534:4 terms 423:1 428:25 559:6,8 565:15 570:23 terrible 339:2 414:23 test 361:8 369:20 370:11 374:11,13,14,18,22 387:22 388:5 390:24 392:21 393:14,25 396:1,8 401:19 403:23 404:17 547:19 tested 349:3 350:23 351:9 358:22 360:3 365:12,13 366:25 368:21 371:6,10 372:4,7 383:21 384:13 388:20 395:21,23 396:4, 5,17 403:15,16 404:5 516:21 517:10,19,23 testified 442:10 450:6,19,21,24 451:2 500:20,23,25 501:5 522:2 545:18 552:4 555:21 556:2 557:12 558:1 562:6,9 596:17 597:14 testify 318:4 338:9 341:19 397:19 413:8 510:18 546:9 593:6 testifying 525:10,11 552:21 594:7 595:24 596:1 597:1,8,11 testimony 317:4,22 318:15 323:24 330:25 332:15 355:12 357:24 364:20 397:16 400:16 408:11 414:1,4415:16416:2 418:16 432:15 450:13 501:2 525:6 526:17 529:7 562:2,15 591:22 596:9 602:9 testing 349:6 361:6 372:3 374:20 384:11 389:18 390:13 395 22 397 4 9 12 398 4 5 7 399:6,23 404:9 409:12 410:3 516:6,17 593:14,23 597:7 599:11 604:1 tests 374:16 589:4 597:18 textbook 351:21 453:3 Textile 581:2 texting 333:18 thereabouts 501:23 thermal 425:12 thesis 552:22 553:15,23 554:22, 25 587:1 588:15 thickened 478:7 thickness 336:4 thimble 335:25 336:8 504:21 505:9 thimblefuls 505:12 thin 325:2 453:19 454:1 456:13, 14 478:1 thing 323:2 324:14 329:3,19 330:7,18 331:3 336:16 338:12 339:2 351:2 356:3 380:3 382:7 397:4 407:1 408:10 411:1,14 413:13 414:8 438:23 442:19 445:11,14 449:1 464:15 477:13 479:8 482:18 487:25 526:13 531:12 545:19 589:2 600:21 610:5 things 320:1,6,22 324:9,13 328:10 334:6,25 351:22 358:15, 16 359:18 363:25 366:25 368:24 375:17 380:22,23,24 381:14 383:12 385:15 388:18 390:20 394:23 397:22 402:9,11,23 404:24 407:19 408:1,8,15 410:14413:11 414:5417:25 421:15 423:20,23 433:21 439:20 455:4,7 456:25 458:9,12 459:12 463:14 464:14 465:2 467:21 476:15 481:2 482:8 483:10 501:8 503:2 529:20 536:19 559:20 561:10 565:8 577:16 578:22 579:2 thinking 344:18 440:1,10 589:17 590:11 Thomas 590:17 Thompson 580:11 thoracic 341:1 475:17 thorax 475:18 thought 321:18 328:2 330:20 365:24 386:16,17 387:13 388:25 407:4 409:23 499:16 510:7 528:1 564:1 583:17 589:12 599:14 603:4 609:17 611:11 thousand 370:12 406:10 459:25 460:1,4,7 506:13,16 543:7 586:13 thousands 355:4 383:10 397:10 404:21 448:21 459:14 463:22 471:22 473:3 503:21 536:10,13 thousandth 506:7,11 threads 484:16 three-day 578:14 three-inch 328:8,15 419:11 threshold 350:20,21 351:8,11 throats 456:22 throwing 337:24 583:2 thrust 362:21 582:19 604:11 thumb 459:21 Thursday 419:17 Thursdays 419:16,18 420:5,6 ticket 349:15 tickets 349:13 tightly 479:25 490:23 tiles 335:19 355:1 385:19 421:10,11 till 376:11 377:6 490:17 607:13 time 315:12 317:11 318:14 323:23,24 325:20,23 329:25 333:23,24 334:10,11 342:8 343:23 344:8 345:3,5 349:6 Index: testimony..today 356:18 357:16 359:4,5,11 363:14 365:12,18 366:7 368:19 369:2 370:18 371:9,11 372:16 374:10 375:2,13,23 379:12 385:9,15,16 391:4 392:8 393:22, 25 395:23 400:19 401:10 403:8 408:22 412:17,21 414:19 415:13 416:23417:1,11,13420:10,20 421:4,19 425:17 427:16,21 429:16,19 437:10,11,14438:10 440:16 446:12 451:4 457:24 458:10 461:23 467:24 469:2 474:11 482:9 489:8,11 490:6,16, 17,19 491:12 493:5 494:15 500:23,25 501:21 503:12 505:16,18 507:2 509:18 510:17 524:11 525:14 533:7,12 536:9, 11 552:24 553:17 555:6,24 557:22 558:5,7 559:14 562:13 564:6,23 565:9 567:16 569:3,18 571:20 572:13 573:25 574:7 575:8 576:19 587:7 589:22 591:18 600:3,10,15601:6 607:20 608:7 609:6 610:18 611:17 time-weighted 423:3 times 354:6 355:5 370:12 371:6 384:12 387:17 393:6 404:21,23 422:3 438:13 450:8,23 459:5,14, 25 463:22 466:21 520:13 554:23 575:5,12 580:22 tiny 335:24 336:2 339:8 341:8 354:20 364:3,4 tip 457:12 tired 378:5 410:25 tissue 338:8 350:2 455:14,16 456:6 475:12 tissues 569:4 title 522:22 590:20 titled 572:8 titles 602:2 TLV 350:20 351:1 tobacco 498:19 today 314:4 331:12 340:25 344:23,25 359:20 364:24 377:3, 6 385:12 387:11 393:9 396:7 411:5,6,8 414:12 417:4 442:20 447:20 451:13 478:24 488:5 501:3 502:25 524:22 527:18,24 528:2 536:24 537:2 562:21 564:15 609:16 toe 475:2,14 told 315:23 321:16 331:15 340:19 342:14 364:16 368:3 371:1 379:19 382:1,16 386:20 389:21 390:5,14 397:17 411:17 417:8 423:19 424:9 430:8 432:17 433:12,25 437:7,22 467:20 478:3 483:4,8 492:23 497:2 539:14 549:16 591:5 607 12 tomorrow 364:25 440:3,14 607:23 608:12,13 609:11,16,22 610:5,13,22 612:7,25 613:6,20 ton 337:3 tonight 439:24,25 440:15 613:5 tons 585:14 tool 559:16 566:4 tools 392:11,16,22 tooth 424:15,23,24 425:1 top 390:11,23 393:12 424:20 425:2 453:7 455:19 472:14 543:21 topic 490:13 topics 603:20 total 341:10 572:21 584:9 totally 361:1 363:8 430:10 touch 380:5 touched 349:4 538:2 tough 410:9 537:21 toxic 344:11 361:23 472:13 557:3 Toxicology 523:5 trace 366:5 368:4 395:10,11,12 traced 540:2 trachea 453:7 track 334:9,20 411:9 577:7 tracked 559:21 560:11 trade 335:17 374:4 510:13 555:14,17 556:8 581:2,5 trades 566:11 578:3 traditional 368:2 tragic 414:22 train 320:24 trained 359:12 553:11 training 553:14 571:4 transcript 441:4 527:21 612:20 transmission 370:16 371:2 392:13 transport 477:9 transported 454:15 476:2 trapped 457:1 travel 353:13,14 375:14,17 tray 328:13,16 413:24 417:21,22 418:1,18,20,21 419:6 424:17 trays 328:9,23 417:10 418:10 419:2 429:13 treat 526:13 treated 484:10 487:11,24 treating 349:25 treatments 327:4 tremendous 424:4 tremolite 339:20,22 358:3 363:1 373:17 406:3,11,12,15,18, 24 409:17,19,20,22 466:11 510:24 517:22,25 518:9 539:11, 13,17 540:1,5,8,9,11,13,15 604:19,22 trial 316:17 317:1,3 319:5 372:15 421:24 438:3,20 548:9 600:18 608:4,15 609:9 triers 316:2 355:18 trillions 455:21 518:7 troops 421:5 trouble 391:17,18 true 321:18 331:21 332:5 380:1 382:16 386:22 388:24 389:2 393:18 432:4 502:20 504:22 505:1,4 518:2 519:7 520:6 524:21 531:24 545:5 truth 598:1 truthful 319:13 Index: toe..ultrastructural truthfulness 331:20 tube 453:6 tuberculosis 469:16 567:2 tubes 453:10,15,16 Tuesday 419:16 Tuesdays 419:16 Tulane 444:16 447:8,14,17,21 455:13 tumor 343:23,24 483:5 485:21 491:22,24 492:7 493:23 494:23, 25 495:5,24 496:2,8,11 tumors 326:16,24 327:2 358:11 493:1,3 541:2 543:12 Turns 383:9 Turin 388:9,22 turn 374:23 380:18 397:18,19 403:24 405:24 454:25 523:10 539:19 540:20 543:13,15 turned 387:12 389:7,15 turning 393:17 turns 405:24 461:24 472:11 485:18 TV 332:8 two-day 314:17 type 358:4 365:15 413:13 445:16 462:23,25 463:1,2,4 577:12 types 328:18 339:11,14 344:12 350:7 355:2 368:24 406:3 413:10 467:12,13 476:24 566:6, 7 571:13 583:13 typically 325:12 339:20 443:12 456:25 458:5 468:15 489:12,22 490:18 491:16 496:5,9 U U.S. 340:22 357:12 556:6,8 566:9 574:7 Uh-huh 444:13 445:3 ultimately 315:9 335:11 343:16,17 ultrastructural 455:25 unbroken 343:18 unclog 320:2 uncontrolled 482:23 underlying 597:6,18 underneath 435:7 461:6 473:9 476:5 478:9 understand 315:8 319:18 321:7 324:23 407:5 445:15 446:15 465:10 468:21,24 469:18 474:19 484:1,3 487:3 490:15,19 495:21 498:5 507:19 508:5 519:21 520:1,19 603:22 understandable 314:23 321:10 understanding 493:11 537:5 541:24 546:11 600:24 601:24 understands 478:15 Understood 597:22 undisputed 329:2,4,9 unearthed 559:5 unfolds 393:16 union 560:17 United 319:20 340:24 341:10 357:8 382:10 406:17,19 422:8 446:11,20 555:21 563:24 566:2 568:6,9 570:1 571:24 573:13 574:16 576:16 578:8 584:18 585:13 universities 403:10 448:10 556:25 University 365:23 388:5,9 445:6,20 446:1 447:9,17 Unlike 366:1 unreliable 575:10 unseen 570:17 unsigned 581:25 unsuitable 392:4,7 untrue 387:18 untruths 319:14 unusual 572:16 unwrapping 434:3 435:10,13 updated 317:23 upper 491:14 usefulness 362:17 user 528:22 users 320:16 UV 489:19 V vacation 375:18,20 vacuum 455:19,22 vacuuming 570:13 valuable 382:7 508:1 563:9 valves 431:2 varieties 446:13 465:15,17,20 466:6,8,20 467:1 480:21 489:5 510:24 520:8 524:11 539:17 variety 349:21 406:20 479:1 varying 604:19 vast 358:5 374:20 verdict 316:11 375:22 376:3 608:21 vermiculite 374:3 Vermont 356:20,21 357:5,11, 15,16,18 358:8,19 359:11,23 368:1,4 372:20,22 383:17 384:23 389:8 393:17,19 394:11 396:24 397:7 408:18 446:1,24 512:16,25 514:12,22 519:20 vessel 475:3,6 vessels 474:22,24 475:10 476:7,8,11,17 vest 434:20 vests 423:20 434:15 vice 444:15 447:11 victim 455:12 victims 583:25 Victor 521:11 522:24 video 317:22 344:5 397:15,16 400:19 413:8 435:19 438:21 440:6,22 441:3 videos 440:6 Index: unbroken..wanted view 363:21 Vin 315:1 375:23 vinegar 366:16 viral 469:17 Virginia 334:7,16 virtually 580:1 viruses 456:24 visible 321:9 visit 404:6 visitor 446:8 vitae 443:21 552:16,17 vital 560:24 VOir 379:19 380:4,17 414:21 431:7 593:22 594:10 603:15,18 volume 506:11,13,15 535:18 579:1 581:16 W W-E-D-L-E-R 575:24 W.C. 581:19 Wagner 399:7,12 446:6,8 447:24 467:22 470:19 509:2,4, 14 510:2 511:18 514:10,21 545:7 577:2,3 wait 400:14 605:10 waiting 369:2 449:15 wake 470:8 Waldorf 578:15 Wales 388:6 446:11 walk 320:25 332:22 406:9 413:3 445:22 452:1 471:5 477:21 478:14 490:1 503:19 565:5 walked 421:8 452:6 495:13 567:11 570:4 walking 423:8 452:14,19 wall 387:14 454:2,8 478:8 492:20 494:5 532:12,19 walls 453:16 461:8,9,10 Walter 388:20,21,24 389:1 wanted 327:8 367:22 368:19 393:21,25 411:1,11 468:1 471:1 500:10 536:21 541:16 563:7 609:15 w a r 381:10 420:23 421:2,4,6 576:14 w arn 319:24 320:15 323:11 337:8 349:12 356:12 395:5 570:16 w arn ed 321:16 331:4 349:7 571:13 w arn in g 320:2 322:2,8 329:4,5 330:19,21 331:7 349:16,18 371:21 372:1 394:19 395:2,4,7 568:5 570:11,19 w arn in g s 320:7 321:6 322:17, 19 349:13 w arn s 321:1 w ash in g 347:1 384:9 w ash in g s 590:7 W ashing to n 334:18 w aste 533:7 w atch 408:1 409:20 481:11 w atch ed 441:2 w a te r 336:20 385:24 456:12 498:1 w aterin g 334:8 w ave-like 457:21 w a x 417:25 419:1 424:14,16 425:2,22 426:4,10 w ays 326:7 327:21 360:23,24, 25 361:1 363:5 369:20,25 446:22 481:1,3 w e a r 334:12 423:21 w earin g 322:10 434:20 w ears 326:17 W e d le r 575:24 576:10 W ed ler's 576:7,17 w e ek 317:23 318:8 327:6 403:25 413:19 418:23 419:14, 18,19,23 420:15 423:4 428:7,23 439:22 447:18 470:13 w eeken d 440:7 606:24 610:15 W eekly 573:11 w eeks 314:25 316:12 327:4 360:7 419:12 437:13 451:23 580:22 W e g la rz 429:23 430:2,4,5 437:19 451:9 513:12 525:22,23 526:2 527:13,21,25 528:3,7,11, 12 529:15,19 534:1,2,14,19 564:10 607:15,20 611:6,10,14, 22 612:1 614:2 w eig h 423:22 585:23 w eig h s 375:22 w e ig h t 331:18 332:8 370:3,6 391:24 w ell-co n d u cted 507:25 w ell-kn o w n 339:22,24,25 w ell-p u b licized 349:9 w ell-resp ected 394:10 509:25 W e s t 430:16 w e t 366:19 w h e w 461:19 w hite 355:14 435:15,21 484:16 w h o a 406:7 w ide 415:20 420:14 466:22 470:3 520:14 w id ely 347:10 554:14 560:6 574:15 580:18 585:13 604:19 w ife 334:16,19 375:6 415:1 w ild fire 387:12 W illiam 362:8 w in d o w 440:13 w in d p ip e 453:7 W in d s o r 356:24 396:24 W in d so r's 396:23 w ip ed 414:1 w ith d ra w 604:4,5 w itn essed 317:25 318:5 w itn esses 342:24,25 376:17 549:25 609:5 w o m an 354:13 400:2 567:12 Index: war..works w o m an 's 355:19 w o m en 353:21,24 354:9,11 379:24 382:14,20 402:15 w o n d ered 411:7 w o n d erin g 334:8 w ord 357:6 405:18 409:17 503:16 504:6 507:16 520:2 566:24 567:21 591:4 w o rd s 395:19,20 401:6 406:10 435:25 483:1 511:11 514:4 540:5 w o re 434:13 w o rk 317:20 323:22,25 324:1 327:25 328:1,25 355:13 374:17 379:24 391:21 398:16 400:12 413:15,25 416:15 417:3,7 418:1, 3,23 419:13,17 420:1,5 423:24 431:1,3 432:3,5,9,17 433:14,23 434:5,8,13,25 435:6,9 436:18,19 439:19 444:12 446:9,11 447:24 448:6,7,10,11,13,23 449:7,11 469:20 475:19 495:21 502:4 508:8 519:7 526:25 529:10 545:11 552:12 555:11 558:9 563:18,22 577:10 580:3 w o rkb en ch 419:3 w o rked 323:21,22 327:15 328:23 344:6 368:16 390:20 400:7,15,20,21 401:9 416:23 427:2 428:3 432:12,19,21 433:13 434:10 509:24 555:19 568:18 571:5 579:23 602:3,7 w o rk e r 530:5 585:24 w o rkers 330:25 345:22 347:25 390:5 519:25 557:17 560:7,8 561:2 567:3 570:8 572:9 575:4,6 576:12 578:3,5 582:14 583:1 w o rkers' 568:15 w o rkin g 328:3 331:5 341:24 353:12 355:2 359:16 370:25 398:13 399:4 402:20,22 409:12 415:11,13,14416:11,19419:22 423:10 426:18,19,23 431:2 432:23 433:4 434:1,2 436:23 439:22 446:21 458:10 485:11 488:17 493:8 553:12 564:4 567:15 571:6 586:23 613:16 w o rks 343:20 373:21 377:25 394:17 worksheets 374:23 Workshops 565:14 world 335:17 340:3,23 341:20 347:8 349:10 350:15 351:19 352:5 356:6 360:17 370:23 372:19 374:4 384:16 385:2 389:4,14 390:5,12 391:1 392:21, 23 394:7 397:2,4 399:6,18,21 410:4 420:23 421:6 443:25 465:19 555:12,14,17 556:12,23 557:1,4,9,21 558:25 562:15,16, 17,21 563:20 573:18 576:14 578:18 581:23 586:18 world's 410:3 465:22 569:24 worldwide 556:17 worried 368:17 worse 338:1 worst 338:13 339:3 worst-case 395:9,13 404:17 wounded 381:10 wrap 325:4 453:19 wrapping 434:2 435:12 wraps 453:20 write 500:9,11,13 503:16 504:17 507:14 518:9,14 546:16 548:12 556:14 587:3 588:19 589:9,21 590:23 writes 604:9,18 writing 371:14 374:12 500:14 511:16 562:18 567:13 586:25 588:12,14 590:24 written 367:16 443:23 444:21 566:14 590:19 wrong 319:21 321:16 360:14 373:9,10 410:4 452:16 559:7 595:25 wrote 351:20 359:15 365:2,5 367:12,14 382:1 384:21 385:2 389:9 471:21 589:1 X x-ray 370:2 515:23,25 516:17 542:5,25 566:4,5,8 x-rayed 423:21 X-rays 370:3 567:19 XRD 370:2 391:6 394:2 403:18 Y yea 425:6,7 year 325:13 326:22 327:24 338:19 346:10 357:2 414:17 416:12,13,14 422:9,22,23 427:13,14 485:19 565:15,18 581:8 585:14 years 317:13 323:23 324:22 325:22,23 329:10 335:14 342:14,19 343:4,24,25 344:4 346:12 347:12 348:15 349:9,14 358:10,11,13,24 365:7 368:22 369:4,8 370:12 373:2 381:7 382:21 383:19 386:23 387:1,8 388:14 389:19,24 393:10 394:20 397:1 400:7,8,11,12,13,15 402:20 408:6 415:6,19,24 422:19 429:10 432:7,25 443:5 444:14,16 445:19 446:24 447:3, 10 450:11 455:11 465:8 469:4 470:13,21 478:18 492:7,9,10,11, 13,17 498:6,8 500:18 501:6 553:19 554:6 557:23 558:6 565:6 567:5,21 568:23 569:1 571:6 572:12 580:15 584:7 586:3 591:6,13 593:12,20 594:2 598:2,3,23 600:13 601:11 yellow 357:13 yesterday 314:15 315:5,23 316:22 317:16,19 319:10 324:19 327:8 331:9,16 351:4 411:3,4 412:23 421:7 430:6,9 York 347:6,9 349:10 387:17 560:5,18,24 578:11,15,17 580:21 581:8,16 605:22 young 329:15 330:2 364:25 368:18 542:1 youngster 498:6 Yuck 321:1 Z zeros 510:14 zipping 458:12 464:16 Index: worksheets..zoology zone 454:19 531:17 zoology 445:5 In the Matter Of: M ELODY LEWIS and ROBERT LEWIS -vBMW CONSTRUCTORS, INC., ETAL. Trial Day 4 October 18, 2019 1 STATE OF INDIANA 2 COUNTY OF MARION ) ) SS: ) 3 IN THE MARION COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT 4 CIVIL DIVISION, ROOM NO. 12 5 MELODY LEWIS and 6 ROBERT LEWIS, 7 Plaintiffs, 8 -v- 9 BMW CONSTRUCTORS, INC., et al., 10 Defendants. 11 ) ) ) ) ) ) CAUSE NO. ) 49D12-1811-MI-045368 ) ) ) ) 12 13 14 TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL PROCEEDINGS 15 DAY 4 16 O C T O B E R 18, 2019 17 BEFORE THE HONORABLE THERESE A. HANNAH 18 19 20 21 22 STEWART RICHARDSON DEPOSITION SERVICES 23 Registered Professional Reporters One Indiana Square 24 Suite 2425 Indianapolis, IN 46204 25 (317)237-3773 1 APPEARANCES 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 3 Kathy Musgrave Farinas, Esq. Todd Barnes, Esq. 4 Sarah Broderick, Esq. GEORGE & FARINAS, LLP 5 151 North Delaware Street, Suite 1700 Indianapolis, IN 46204 6 Nat h a n D. Finch, Esq. 7 MOTLEY RICE, LLC 401 9th Street NW, Suite 1001 8 Washington, D.C. 20004 9 Vincent L. Greene, IV, Esq. MOTLEY RICE, LLC 10 55 Cedar Street, Suite 100 Providence, RI 02903 11 12 FOR THE DEFENDANT BMW CONSTRUCTORS: 13 Edward F. Harney, Jr., Esq. HUME SMITH GEDDES GREEN & SIMMONS, LLP 14 54 Monument Circle, Fourth Floor Indianapolis, IN 46204 15 Claire C. Weglarz, Esq. 16 HAWKINS PARNELL & YOUNG, LLP 445 South Figueroa, Suite 3200 17 Los Angeles, CA 90071 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 617 1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED) 2 FOR THE DEFENDANT JOHNSON & JOHNSON: 3 Peter A. Bicks, Esq. Candice A. Andalia, Esq. 4 ORRICK HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE, LLP 51 West 52nd Street 5 New York, NY 10019 6 C. Anne Malik, Esq. ORRICK HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE, LLP 7 1152 15th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 8 M a t t h e w L. Bush, Esq. 9 Olivia Clements, Esq. ORRICK HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE, LLP 10 51 West 52nd Street New York, NY 10019 11 J.T. Larson, Jr., Esq. 12 Joseph G. Eaton, Esq. BARNES & THORNBURG 13 11 South M e r i d i a n Street, Fifth Floor Indianapolis, IN 46204 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 618 Page 619 1 INDEX OF WITNESSES 2 PAGE 3 BARRY CASTLEMAN, Ph.D. 4 Cross (Continuing) ............................622 Cross ........................................... 691 5 Redirect ....................................... 699 Recross .........................................710 6 7 MARK RIGLER, Ph.D. 8 Direct ......................................... 713 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 PLAINTIFF 3 Exhibit 3 4 Exhibit 4 5 Exhibit 38 6 Exhibit 52 7 Exhibit 181 8 Exhibit 185 9 Exhibit 196 10 Exhibit 358 11 Exhibit 386 12 Exhibit 619 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX OF EXHIBITS IDENTIFIED ADMITTED 714 762 786 811 811 707 707 743 743 860 861 814 814 751 751 815 815 854 857 Page 620 NOT ADMITTED 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS 2 DEFENDANT IDENTIFIED ADMITTED 3 Exhibit 3 690 4 Exhibit 4 696 5 Exhibit 7119 649 6 Exhibit 8079 663 663 7 Exhibit 8096 656 656 8 Exhibit 8240 658 659 9 Exhibit 8402 660 660 10 Exhibit 8846 653 653 11 Exhibit 9100 668 668 12 Exhibit 11001-08 630 631 13 Exhibit 12231 680 680 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 621 NOT ADMITTED Page 622 1 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 2 (Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.) (18: 28 3 THE COURT: Well, good morning and welcome (18:29 4 back. Please be seated. 5 Well, I hope everybody had a restful night, (18:29 6 and we are ready for another day of trial. 7 Your oath that I gave you as jurors, continues (18:29 8 from day to day until we conclude this case. So 9 there's no need for the Court to swear you in again 10 every day. 11 And with that, we'll begin. (18:29 12 MR. BICKS: Thank you. Good morning, (18:29 13 everyone. 14 JURORS: Good morning. (18:29 15 BARRY CASTLEMAN, Ph.D., 16 a witness resumed the stand on behalf of the 17 Plaintiffs, having been previously duly sworn by the 18 Court, took the stand and testified as follows: 19 CROSS-EXAMINATION (CONTINUING) (18:29 20 BY MR. BICKS: (18:29 21 Q Good morning, Dr. Castleman. (18:29 22 A Good morning. (18:29 23 Q My name is Peter Bicks. How are you, sir? (18:29 24 A Fine, thank you. Excellent. (18:29 25 Q And thank you for being with us. I'd like to start (18:29 Page 623 1 with just a little bit on your qualifications. 2 Fair to say that you are not an expert on what (18:29 3 I would call mineralogy? 4A (18:29 5Q (18:29 6A (18:29 7Q (18:29 8 expertise in the source mines from which Johnson & 9 Johnson got any of its talc? 10 A (18:30 11 Q 08:30 12 scientist? 13 A 08:30 14 Q 08:30 15 scientist 16 A 08:30 17 Q 08:30 18 determine its purity? 19 A 08:30 20 Q 08:30 21 expert in transmission electron microscopy? 22 A 23 Q 24 A 25 Q 08:30 08:30 08:30 08:30 Page 624 1 microscope yourself? 2 A No, sir. (18:30 3 Q It's also the case, you're not a certified 08:30 4 industrial hygienist; right? 5 A I have training in industrial hygiene, but I'm not 08:30 6 a certified industrial hygienist. 7 Q Right. And you're not a medical doctor; right? 08:30 8 A No. 08:31 9 Q I think I've looked at a lot of your testimony, and 08: 31 10 I've heard you say that you're not an expert in 11 mesothelioma in general; is that accurate? 12 A Well, it's -- I don't recall what you're referring 08: 31 13 to, but I'm not a medical doctor. Mesothelioma is 14 clearly something that we use as a marker for 15 indicating the dangers of asbestos in public 16 health. So it's just a matter of context, I 17 suppose, what question that would be. 18 Q Well, I'm happy to pull it up, but you were asked, 08: 31 19 are you an expert in mesothelioma in general, and 20 you said you were not. I'm happy to bring the 21 testimony up if you - 22 A It's such a vague question, if I said that in the 08:31 23 context of some deposition. 24 Q Do you know, by the way, where Johnson & Johnson 08:31 25 sourced its talc from? Page 625 1 A I read, I think, Vermont and Val Chisone in Italy. 2 Q I'm glad you mentioned Val Chisone in Italy (18:31 (18:32 3 because, did you mention to the jury yesterday that 4 you had actually visited the deposit in Val Chisone 5 Italy? 6 A Well, it's a museum now, but the mine still exists (18:32 7 as a place that tourists can come and see a talc 8 mine. But, yes, I've been there. 9 Q And you a visited that mine in about 2015? (18:32 10 A It was a few years ago, yes. (18:32 11 Q Did you tour the mine? (18:32 12 A Yes. (18:32 13 Q And you were able to walk around and see where the (18:32 14 talc came from. 15 A Yes. (18:32 16 Q Who took you around the mine? (18:32 17 A Oh, I don't recall the people that were there. I (18:32 18 was just coming as a tourist. I didn't have any 19 special, you know, hosting arrangement by the mine 20 management or anything like that. 21 Q Well, it would be -- the year was 2015. Had you (18:32 22 been hired by any plaintiffs' law firm as of that 23 time to testify in any case involving talc? 24 A Well, I had done talc cases, not Johnson & Johnson, (18:33 25 but other companies' talc cases, before 2015. Page 626 1 Q Right. So at the time that you were at that (18:33 2 Italian mine, you were retained by plaintiffs in 3 cases involving talc; right? 4 A Well, plaintiffs weren't paying me to take a tour (18:33 5 of the mine. I just happened to be in northern 6 Italy and decided to see the mine. I didn't get 7 paid for that. 8 Q Yes, I didn't ask you whether or not you got paid, (18:33 9 sir, please. My question to you was, at the time 10 you visited that mine, you were retained by 11 plaintiffs in lawsuits against companies that sold 12 talc products; right? 13 A Well, there had been a few lawsuits that I had (18:33 14 testified in by that time, yes. 15 Q And is it the case that you've told this jury that (18:33 16 you have been involved with asbestos issues since 17 the early 1970s; fair? 18 A Right. (18:33 19 Q So we're talking, what, almost 50 years? 50 years; (18:33 20 right? 21 A Well, not quite, but almost. (18:34 22 Q And you've held yourself out to this jury and (18:34 23 you've talked about all the knowledge about 24 asbestos hazards; right? 25 A Well, briefly we highlighted it, yes. (18:34 Page 627 1 Q So my question to you is: With all of your (18:34 2 knowledge and expertise, when you were at that 3 Italian talc mine touring in the mine, seeing where 4 all the talc was, were you wearing a protective 5 breathing apparatus of any sort? 6 A No. It wasn't an active mine. (18:34 7 Q But you were right next to all the talc; right? (18:34 8 A Well, I was walking through the abandoned mine site (18:34 9 to look at the way it was set up, yes. It's a 10 museum now, not an active mine. 11 Q But the talc is right there? You were right up (18:34 12 next to the talc itself; right? 13 A I suppose in some places, yes. (18:34 14 Q Right. And I've looked at your prior testimony. (18:34 15 You said that you didn't consider yourself in any 16 danger when you were on the site at that mine 17 walking around that talc. Is that still true 18 today? 19 A Right. (18:35 20 Q Now, you've also testified before that -- do you (18:35 21 have some familiarity with the published literature 22 and the epidemiology of the Italian talc miners? 23 A Well, I've seen one article, I think, published (18:35 24 about that, about the -- some of the workers at the 25 Italian mine by Rubino. Page 628 1 Q Have you -- I don't want to get into areas that (18:35 2 you're not familiar with, but have you looked at 3 all the epidemiology about the talc miners and 4 millers in Italy? 5 A Not all of them, no. (18:35 6 Q Are you saying the only article you're familiar (18:35 7 with is the Rubino article? 8 A Well, that's the only one that comes to mind. (18:35 9 Q Right. And you've testified before, and I want to (18:35 10 make sure it's true, that you're not aware of any 11 articles showing that that talc mine in Val Chisone 12 contains asbestos. Is that still your testimony 13 today? 14 A Yes. (18:36 15 Q Now, you talked a little bit about your book that (18:36 16 was called "Asbestos: The Medical and Legal 17 Aspects"; right? 18 A Right. (18:36 19 Q And I'm a good customer of yours, I've got five, (18:36 20 all five editions. I hope you're pleased with 21 that. 22 A Well, lots of defense lawyers buy the book, yes. (18:36 23 Q I wanted to just do something basic, which is the (18:36 24 title of the book is Asbestos Medical and Legal 25 Aspects; right? Page 629 1 A Right. 2 Q And did you come up with the title? 3 A I think so. 4 Q And to be clear, medical, you are not a medical 5 doctor; true? 6 A True. 7 Q And legal, you are not a lawyer; right? 8 A Right. Medicine and law are the foundations of 9 public health. 10 Q Sir, please, the question, are you a lawyer? 11 A No, sir. 12 Q I looked through all five of these books, and I 13 cannot say that I read all of them, but I was (18:36 (18:36 (18:36 (18:36 (18:36 (18:36 (18:36 (18:36 (18:36 (18:37 14 looking very carefully to see if there was a 15 chapter on Johnson & Johnson, and I didn't see one. 16 Is there a chapter in any of these books about 17 Johnson & Johnson? 18 A No. (18:37 19 Q Is there any discussion in any of these books about (18:37 20 Johnson & Johnson and its talc? 21 A No. (18:37 22 Q Some of the companies that are discussed in here, (18:37 23 is it fair to say that the companies that you're 24 focusing on here are companies that made 25 asbestos-containing products, like insulation and Page 630 1 thermal blocks and tape joint compound and 2 companies of that nature? 3 A Well, it also includes large users of asbestos (18:37 4 products like the big oil companies, big automobile 5 companies. 6 Q And companies that put asbestos into their (18:38 7 products, is that one category that you focused on? 8 A Yes. (18:38 9 Q And companies that actually had asbestos mines; (18:38 10 right? 11 A Right. (18:38 12 Q And you know Johnson & Johnson doesn't fit into any (18:38 13 of those categories, right, at least from what you 14 know? 15 A Right. (18:38 16 Q Now, I want to ask you about the cover of this (18:38 17 book. I know you've been asked about it before. 18 Maybe we can put it up, but I think you've seen 19 this. 20 MR. BICKS: May I approach, Your Honor? (18:38 21 THE COURT: Yes. (18:38 22 Q This was the foreword to your book; right? (18:39 23 A Well, this is the dust cover on the first edition (18:39 24 of the book. 25 MR. BICKS: Right. So I'd like to offer this (18:39 Page 631 1 into evidence, Your Honor. 2 MR. FINCH: No objection. (18:39 3 THE COURT: All right. The Court shows it (18:39 4 admitted. Is this Exhibit Defendants' 11001-08? 5 MR. BICKS: And maybe we can go to the ELMO. (18:39 6 Can folks see that on our jury? 7 JURORS: (Affirmative nod.) (18:39 8 BY MR. BICKS: (18:39 9 Q Great. So this was the foreword to the first (18:39 10 edition of your book; right, Dr. Castleman? 11 A No, this was the dust cover that the publisher put (18:39 12 on the book and the language that the publisher 13 chose to use. 14 Q Right. I'm sorry, the dust cover, so that's kind (18:39 15 of the thing on the outside of the book? 16 A Right. (18:40 17 Q And this was your first edition; is that right? 08:40 18 A That's right. 08:40 19 Q It says in it, "To attorneys in asbestos 08:40 20 litigation, this book offers a complete 21 documentation on the development of knowledge about 22 asbestos hazards. There's an abundance of valuable 23 material for the plaintiff and the attorney 24 preparing his case as well as information on how to 25 deal with defense arguments." Page 632 1 Did I get that right? 2 A You read that correctly. 3 Q So this was on the dust cover of the first edition 4 of your book; right? 5 A It was. 6 Q And you've told us that, I think you said that you 7 objected to this? 8 A Well, when asked about this in court, I've said 9 that I told the publisher that this was a doctoral (18:40 08:40 08:40 08:40 08:40 08:40 10 thesis accepted by one of the most respected 11 schools of public health in the world, and their 12 characterization of the book was, I thought, unfair 13 and that I'd probably be hearing this for the rest 14 of my life, and that was 35 years ago. And so far, 15 my prediction has proven correct. But in any case, 16 they stopped using that particular language on the 17 dust cover after the first edition. 18 Q Right. But just so our jury's -- it was on the 08:41 19 cover of the -- the dust cover of the first 20 edition; right? 21 A Right. 08:41 22 Q And then you came into court and you were asked 08:41 23 questions about it, and then in the second edition, 24 it wasn't there; right? 25 A Well, they made it more balanced in a way that they 08: 41 Page 633 1 described the book, yes. 2 Q Right. But you first got involved in litigation (18:41 3 about when, sir? 4 A Well, it started as a research job in 1976, about (18:41 5 five years after I had written my master's thesis 6 on asbestos. 7 Q And I have a timeline here, if we can bring up C-4, (18:41 8 maybe it'll help us walk through this. Can you see 9 that, Mr. Castleman? 10 A Yes. (18:42 11 Q So to orient us, 1973, you've got "Asbestos and (18:42 12 You," which is a publication you wrote; right? 13 A Right. (18:42 14 Q Then in 1976, you start consulting for plaintiffs' (18:42 15 lawyers; right? 16 A Right. I was an independent consultant by then, (18:42 17 and they hired me to do research on the published 18 literature, and I went to libraries to look up 19 different articles. 20 Q And you first started testifying in, what, 1979? (18:42 21 A That's right. (18:42 22 Q So 2019, you've been testifying for essentially (18:42 23 40 years; is that fair? 24 A That's right. (18:42 25 Q Fair to say that you've testified in, what, over (18:42 Page 634 1 400 trials? 2 A Yes. It averages to probably a little less than (18:42 3 once a month. 4 Q And you've given, what, about a thousand (18:42 5 depositions? 6 A Yeah. (18:42 7 Q I've read in your prior testimony that 99.9 percent (18:43 8 of the time that you testify, you do so on behalf 9 of plaintiffs; is that accurate? 10 A Plaintiffs list me as a witness. Defendants (18:43 11 occasionally have asked me to and I've allowed that 12 in some cases. But generally I appear as a witness 13 for the plaintiffs. I testified as a defense in 14 one case. 15 Q One case out of 400; is that right? (18:43 16 A In trial, yes. (18:43 17 Q And that case was actually a case where you were (18:43 18 retained by the government and an asbestos company 19 was on the other side; is that fair? 20 A Right. The asbestos company had sued the (18:43 21 government and the Justice Department hired me as a 22 witness to represent them. 23 Q Just so we're clear, is it true that 99 percent of (18:43 24 the time that you come into the courtroom to 25 testify, it's been at the request of plaintiffs' Page 635 1 lawyers? 2 A Yes. (18:43 3 Q And is it also true that when we look at your (18:43 4 income, that over 90 percent of your income comes 5 from testifying for plaintiffs in cases involving 6 asbestos? 7 A Well, it certainly does now. Most of the (18:44 8 international work I do pays little or nothing. 9 Q Well, can you give us a sense of how much money you (18:44 10 think you've been paid over the last 40 years for 11 testifying for plaintiffs? 12 A I really don't know what that total would be. (18:44 13 Q Well, let me -- I put up here C2, which is an (18:44 14 exhibit that I've put together based on some of 15 your prior testimony. 16 Do you see that? (18:44 17 A Yes. (18:44 18 Q I went through your testimony. You started (18:44 19 testifying in 1979, but I started in 1980. And 20 you've testified that you made about $40,000 a 21 year; fair? 22 A That sounds high for 1980, but I really don't (18:44 23 remember. 24 Q Well, I'm reading what you said in the Fusco case (18:44 25 in 2013. I'm happy to show you that you said about Page 636 1 40,000 a year. Is that in the ballpark? 2 A I really don't know. I'm surprised if I could have (18:45 3 remembered that in 2013, what I had made back in 4 1980. 5 Q All right. I have up here from your prior (18:45 6 testimony that starting in 1985 you got paid about 7 a hundred thousand dollars a year. Does that sound 8 right? 9 A I think so. (18:45 10 Q And then what I couldn't figure out, because I (18:45 11 really wanted to come to a total and I don't want 12 to take too much time here, but I added this up and 13 figured it out, it was about a little over 14 $6 million. But the area that I had trouble with 15 is the period between '85 and 2007, because that's 16 a 22-year period of time. And in my calculation, I 17 assumed you made a hundred thousand all the way up 18 to 2007, but chances are, are you probably were 19 getting paid more than that over that time period, 20 kind of gradually getting higher? 21 A Certainly it would have been more than a hundred (18:46 22 thousand many of those years, yes. 23 Q So if we added this up, and I'm not going to do it (18:46 24 here, but it wouldn't -- you wouldn't quibble if it 25 exceeds $6 million, would you? Page 637 1 A I really never added it up. 2 Q Now, one of the other things that happens is that 3 plaintiffs' lawyers list you in cases that are 4 around the country. They put you on what lawyers (18:46 (18:46 5 know as a witness list for experts; right? 6 A Right. (18:46 7 Q Do you charge just for having your name put down on (18:46 8 a witness list? 9 A Only the first time I encounter a law firm. After (18:46 10 that, they can list cases for years and years and 11 there's no charge for it. 12 Q So how much do you charge just to have your name (18:46 13 listed on a case? 14 A Well, the first time I encounter a firm, I used to (18:46 15 charge $500, and now it's a thousand dollars. 16 Q The firm that has retained you in this case, what (18:47 17 firm is that? 18 A This is the Motley Rice firm I think it's called (18:47 19 today. 20 Q How long have you worked with the Motley Rice firm (18:47 21 over your career? 22 A Well, I met Ron Motley in 1977, I think. (18:47 23 Q So give us a ballpark. How many cases do you think (18:47 24 you've worked with for the Motley Rice firm? 25 A Well, Mr. Motley, I don't recall him ever using me (18:47 Page 638 1 as an expert witness. He hired me to do research. 2 I don't have any idea how many cases. At some 3 point, I think, in the 1980s, other lawyers in the 4 firm -- maybe it was 1990s or the late '80s - 5 started to use me as an expert witness on some of 6 their cases. 7 Q Fair to say that you've been paid a fair amount of (18:47 8 money by that firm? 9 A Well, I don't know what you mean by a fair amount (18:48 10 of money. We're making a legal record here. 11 Q I can't hear what you said, sir. (18:48 12 A I don't know what you mean by the term fair amount (18:48 13 of money. We're making a legal record here. 14 Q Right. (18:48 15 A I have no idea what the total would be. (18:48 16 Q Well, we totaled up the amount you've been paid, (18:48 17 say, over 6 million. I'm just trying to get a 18 sense of how much of that is from the firm that 19 you're appearing here for today. Can you tell us 20 that? 21 A Probably less than 1 percent, but I really don't (18:48 22 know. 23 Q Now, you talked about -- and can we go back to that (18:48 24 timeline, please -- that your first book comes out 25 in 1984; right? Page 639 1 A Right. 2 Q And then your Ph.D. was in what year, sir? 3 A A few months later in 1985. 4 Q So I went back and looked at some of your 5 testimony, and you were asked kind of what prompted (18:48 (18:48 (18:48 (18:49 6 you to get that Ph.D. and whether you were 7 encouraged by plaintiffs' lawyers to get that Ph.D. 8 so it enhanced your ability to come testify in 9 court. 10 Do you remember being asked about that topic? (18:49 11 A Well, lawyers ask me about that topic when I'm (18:49 12 cross-examined with some regularity, yes. 13 Q And is it true that you were encouraged by lawyers (18:49 14 who hired you to testify to go get a Ph.D. because 15 it would enhance your ability to come talk to a 16 jury because you could say, I've got a Ph.D.? 17 A Well, when I told lawyers I was going back to (18:49 18 school, they certainly said, good for you. 19 Q You said before that you thought courts and juries (18:49 20 are more impressed with credentials, and so the 21 lawyers obviously understood that it would be 22 easier for me to present opinion testimony if I had 23 a Ph.D. 24 Have you said that before? (18:50 25 A Probably. It was an observation that courts, in 08:50 Page 640 1 allowing me to render opinions, were mindful of 2 what my qualifications were in allowing what types 3 of opinions I would be able to give in trial. It 4 was simply an observation that I had made from 5 being in the courtroom. 6 Q That people would hear you and have you -- hear (18:50 7 about your Ph.D. and it would kind of enhance your 8 testimony; right? 9 A Well, I was thinking of it more in the context of 08:50 10 what the judges would let me say in terms of the 11 way I could answer questions and that judges would 12 allow greater latitude if I came in and said I 13 wrote my doctoral thesis at the Johns Hopkins 14 School of Public Health about the subject of the 15 testimony. 16 Q And your doctoral thesis didn't contain anything 08:51 17 about Johnson & Johnson; right? 18 A No. 08:51 19 Q So let me ask you about your communications with 08:51 20 Johnson & Johnson. You were asked about that, 21 remember, on direct yesterday? 22 A Yes. 08:51 23 Q You were shown your handwritten letter where you 08:51 24 had asked for certain information. 25 Do you remember that? 08:51 Page 641 1 A Right. 08:51 2 MR. BICKS: Can we bring up -- it's 08:51 3 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 306. 4 Q And this is your handwritten note; right? Do you 08:51 5 see that? 6 A Yes. 08:51 7 Q You asked the question of Johnson & Johnson, "Do 08:51 8 all talcum powders contain asbestos?" 9 And this was something that you were focused 08:51 10 on; right? 11 A Yes, it was. 08:51 12 Q I'm just curious, when you wrote this, it 's in July 08: 51 13 of 1971. How old were you? 14 A Twenty-four. 08:52 15 Q You addressed it -- if we could just pull back from 08:52 16 the document, it's not addressed to anybody in 17 particular at Johnson & Johnson; right? 18 A Right. 08:52 19 Q Did Johnson & Johnson promptly respond to you? 08:52 20 A Yes. 08:52 21 Q This is Exhibit 293. You received a response -- 08:52 22 you wrote on July 25th, and you received a 23 response on what day? 24 A August 2, same year. 08:52 25 Q So is it fair to say that Johnson & Johnson got 08:52 Page 642 1 back to you promptly? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And the letter was signed by who -- a Ph.D. who was 4 the director of Central Research Laboratories, 5 Thomas H. Shelley; right? 6 A Right. 7 Q In this letter, he tells you about specific 8 mineralogists and others who had worked with 9 Johnson & Johnson in paragraph 2. 10 You see that? 11 A Yes. 12 Q He tells you about work carried out by 13 mineralogists at the Colorado School of Mines? 14 A Yes. 15 Q In your research, did you become familiar with the 16 reputation of the Colorado School of Mines? 17 A No. I mean, I couldn't really say what the 18 reputation of the school -- Colorado School of 19 Mines is. 20 Q But let me ask you, I guess, the question, as a 21 general rule based on your expertise, do you think 22 it's a good thing for a company to do to hire top 23 outside experts if they want to get answers to 24 important questions? 25 A That's a good thing, yes. Page 643 1 Q So you didn't do any research, I gather, on the (18:53 2 Colorado School of Mines? 3 A No. (18:53 4 Q What about McCrone Laboratories in Chicago, have (18:53 5 you ever heard of Walter and Lucy McCrone in any? 6 A I have heard of McCrone Laboratories in my work, (18:53 7 yes. 8 Q Do you know who Walter McCrone is? (18:53 9 A Well, I gather he's the head of that lab. (18:53 10 Q Do you know anything about Lucy McCrone? (18:53 11 A No. (18:53 12 Q She's one of the first female microscopists in the (18:53 13 world. Did you know that? 14 A No. (18:54 15 Q Did you know of the reputation of Walter McCrone (18:54 16 and his company when it comes to microscopy? 17 A No. I mean, they're just a lab I had heard of. (18:54 18 Q You didn't do any research into their reputation? (18:54 19 A No. (18:54 20 Q Were you aware that Walter McCrone himself, in any (18:54 21 of your research, did you see his involvement in 22 determining whether or not the Shroud of Turin that 23 Jesus was buried in was real; do you know anything 24 about that? 25 A No, I don't. (18:54 Page 644 1 Q What about work that he had done when it came to (18:54 2 whether or not someone wanted to identify whether 3 hair of Beethoven's was his; do you know anything 4 about that? 5 A No. (18:54 6 Q What about Fred Pooley and the University of Wales (18:54 7 in Cardiff, do you know anything about them? 8 A I had heard of Pooley in other work I had done. (18:54 9 Q How had you come across Professor Pooley? (18:54 10 A I really don't recall. Some kind of -- in the (18:55 11 microscopic analysis he had done. 12 Q You mentioned somebody named -- people say - (18:55 13 pronounce it Wagner, right, in your direct 14 yesterday? 15 A Yes. (18:55 16 Q He was one of the original researchers on finding (18:55 17 mesothelioma; right? 18 A Right. He was the author of the report in 1960 of (18:55 19 33 case of mesothelioma, 32 of which had a history 20 of asbestos exposure. 21 Q Right. That was crocidolite over in Africa? (18:55 22 A Not all of it, but most of it was from that (18:55 23 particular type of asbestos. 24 Q So my question is, did you read or familiarize (18:55 25 yourself with the article that Mr. Wagner and Page 645 1 Professor Pooley wrote on Italian talc? Are you 2 familiar at all with that? 3 A I don't recall that. (18:55 4 Q Would you say in your research that somebody like (18:55 5 Mr. Wagner is one of the most well-respected 6 scientists when it comes to asbestos issues? 7 A Well, he was up until the time he died. And it (18:56 8 came out that he had been retained by a company in 9 asbestos litigation in a way that he never 10 disclosed. And that tended to explain some of the 11 things that he wrote in his later years. 12 Q I see. Did you mention that yesterday on your (18:56 13 direct? I didn't know that I heard that. 14 A Well, I wasn't asked about it. (18:56 15 Q Understood. So I want to ask you about -- remember (18:56 16 yesterday you were asked about this meeting, you 17 were shown a document, and we'll pull it up. It's 18 Plaintiffs' Exhibit 578. This was a March 31, 1976 19 document. Remember you were asked about this? 20 A Yes. (18:57 21 Q Now, I think it's obvious, but let's make sure we (18:57 22 clear it up. You were not at this meeting; right? 23 A I was not. (18:57 24 Q You've told our jury that Mount Sinai Hospital is (18:57 25 one of the most respected hospitals when it comes Page 646 1 to asbestos issues; right? 2 A Yes. (18:57 3 Q When it comes to Dr. Selikoff, I've looked at some (18:57 4 of your testimony and writings, and you've 5 described him as a luminary; right? 6 A He was a renowned figure in the field of (18:57 7 occupational and environmental health. 8 Q And I think you would agree, because I think you've (18:57 9 said it before, that if a company had questions 10 about testing of talc, that Dr. Selikoff and people 11 at Mount Sinai would be good people to go talk to; 12 right? 13 A Right. (18:57 14 Q Because they were some of the leading experts in (18:57 15 the field; right? 16 A Right. (18:57 17 Q And you were asked about this memo. (18:57 18 MR. BICKS: And if we can scroll down a little (18:58 19 bit on it, Jim. 20 Q And the statement there says that -- it starts that (18:58 21 paragraph, "The Mount Sinai group indicated that 22 over the weekend, the Selikoff group had been 23 studying six new samples of talc and had reported 24 that all of them contained minimal amounts of 25 asbestos." Page 647 1 Do you see that? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Do you know what six samples are being discussed in 4 this memo? 5 A No. 6 Q Do you know if they have anything to do with 7 Johnson & Johnson? 8 A No. 9 Q If you go on and read other parts of this memo, and 10 you go down to the next paragraph, it says that, (18:58 (18:58 (18:58 (18:58 (18:58 (18:58 (18:58 11 "It was pointed out to the Mount Sinai management 12 that the Selikoff group had published in the papers 13 about the presence of talc in 1971 and had been 14 forced to retract their statement, as it was 15 erroneous." 16 Do you see that? (18:59 17 A I see that -- I see the statement you're talking (18:59 18 about. 19 Q Are you an expert in the factual back and forth of (18:59 20 what happened in 1971 and 1972 in terms of testing 21 for asbestos and talc? 22 A All I can say is I've never heard of people at (18:59 23 Mount Sinai retracting anything they've published 24 about asbestos and talc in 1971, so I don't know if 25 the statement in this Johnson & Johnson memo is Page 648 1 correct. 2 Q So you haven't studied to see what Mount Sinai (18:59 3 actually said in public about the testing that was 4 done? 5 A All I can say is I've never seen any such (18:59 6 retraction from Mount Sinai. 7 Q Well, let me ask you this as a general proposition (18:59 8 for someone with your experience: Do you think 9 it's a good idea to make scientific statements that 10 are inaccurate? 11 A No. (19:00 12 Q Do you think it's a good idea if an inaccurate 09:00 13 scientific statement has been made to correct it? 14 A Sure. 09:00 15 Q Are you familiar with the statement that Mount 09:00 16 Sinai made after this meeting to the public? 17 A You mean the one in 1971 or the one in 1976? 09:00 18 Q Well, you testified about this document. Let's go 09:00 19 back and help you. This is in 1976. 20 A All right. 09:00 21 Q Are you familiar with the statement that Mount 09:00 22 Sinai made shortly after this March 22, 1976, 23 meeting? 24 A I think there was some statement issued, not by 09:00 25 Selikoff, but by the upper management of the Mount Page 649 1 Sinai institution, but I don't recall the details. 2 Q Would that public statement be something that is 3 known and knowable to Johnson & Johnson? 4 A Well, I suppose so if they made some public 5 statement. 6 Q But I take it, though, that you have not seen that 7 public statement, or you have? 8 A I don't recall if I have. Like I said, I have a 9 vague recollection of there being some pressure on 10 Mount Sinai to issue some sort of public statement. 11 Q Yeah. 12 A And just exactly what they said, I don't recall the 13 details. 14 Q But, I mean, one thing that you do is you go out 15 and research what is out there, what's known and 16 knowable; right? Isn't that one of the things that 17 you do as a researcher? 18 A Yeah. 19 Q But I take it, though, you haven't gone out and 20 researched what Mount Sinai was saying publicly 21 about the safety of Johnson & Johnson's talc. 22 A Well, there are a number of things that Johnson - 23 that Mount Sinai said about Johnson & Johnson talc, 24 not all of which are consistent to each other. 25 Q Well, let's look at Defendants' Exhibit 7119 and Page 650 1 see actually what Mount Sinai said. 2 And so our jury is clear, there's no question 3 in your mind -- 4 THE COURT: Has this been stipulated to? 5 MR. BICKS: I think this is stipulated. 6 MR. FINCH: It's stipulated. 7 THE COURT: Thank you. 8 MR. BICKS: And here's a copy. And if we 9 could publish this. Thank you, Jim. 10 BY MR. BICKS: 11 Q Have you seen this before, Dr. Castleman? 12 A I think so. 13 Q If we can just -- this is a statement. Do you 14 know, by the way, who Dr. Thomas C. Chalmers is and 15 what his background was? 16 A No, I just see he's listed as president of the 17 Mount Sinai Medical Center. 18 Q This starts out, it says, "Recent media reports 19 concerning research on talcum powder carried out by 20 the Mount Sinai Medical Center created considerable 21 confusion on the part of the public." Right? 22 A That's what it says. 23 Q Would you agree that confusion on the part of the 24 public is not a good thing and that clarifying that 25 confusion is a good thing? Page 651 1 A Yes. 2 MR. BICKS: If we go to page 2, please, Jim. 3 Q This is what I was asking you about, which was the 4 opinion of Mount Sinai about the safety of baby 5 powder. Are you with me on that? You see - 6 MR. BICKS: Jim, can we please highlight the 7 medical center has issued a following statement, 8 the most commonly used baby powder. Do you see 9 this? And can we go down to No. 2, please. 10 Q Are you with me on this, Dr. Castleman? 11 A Yes. 12 Q "The most commonly used baby talc has been 13 consistently free of asbestos." 14 Do you see that statement? 15 A Yes, I do. 16 Q Did you mention that to this jury when you gave 17 your direct testimony? 18 A No. 19 Q You would agree with me that Mount Sinai Hospital 20 is -- can you think of any hospital more respected 21 when it comes to asbestos issues than Mount Sinai, 22 particularly at this time? 23 A No. 24 Q Mount Sinai also says here -- and to be clear, the 25 most commonly used baby talc is -- who makes the Page 652 1 most commonly used baby talc? 2 A I would assume that was Johnson & Johnson. 3 Q The opinion of Mount Sinai's department of 4 pediatrics is that the baby talc is a useful and 5 safe product; you see that? 6 A Yeah. 7 Q You've told us before about Dr. Selikoff, and you 8 talked a lot about him on your direct; right? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Is it fair to say that he had his differences with 11 certain kind of companies and sometimes could be at 12 odds with them; right? 13 A Well, he published things that companies were 14 sometimes critical of, yeah. 15 Q Right. And, I mean, you dealt with him yourself 16 personally; right? 17 A Yeah. 18 Q Is it fair to say that he's not the kind of guy who 19 gets pushed around easily, right, he held his 20 ground if he believed in something? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Do you know and were you shown his -- do you know 23 whether or not he agreed with this statement, I 24 guess is one question I had for you? 25 A I haven't seen anything that was committed to Page 653 1 writing to the effect that he disagreed with this, 2 I suppose. There were certainly things that people 3 on his staff disagreed with, I think this 4 particular -- this particular sentence. 5 Q Right. Do you know that Dr. Selikoff actually put 6 in writing that he agreed with Dr. Chalmers' 7 statement; have you ever seen that? 8 A I don't recall. 9 Q Would that be something that, given your knowledge 10 about Dr. Selikoff, that you would want to know 11 about? 12 A Sure. Let's look at it. 13 MR. BICKS: This is 8846. We'd move it into 14 evidence. 15 MR. FINCH: No objection. 16 THE COURT: The Court shows 8846 admitted 17 without objection. 18 BY MR. BICKS: 19 Q Have you seen this before? 20 A I think I may have seen some of the news articles 21 attached to it, but I don't recall seeing this 22 letter. 23 Q So this is an article -- a letter from Mount Sinai 24 School of Medicine, you see it at the top, and it's 25 addressed to somebody at the Washington Post. Page 654 1 Do you see that? 2 A Right. 3 Q Let me ask you again, have you seen this letter 4 before? 5 A I may have. I don't recall if I have or not. I 6 may not have. I just don't know. 7 Q The reason I'm putting it before you is I was - 8 the question that I had on the table was, do you 9 know whether or not Dr. Selikoff agreed with 10 Dr. Chalmers' statements that he made in that 11 article about the safety of baby powder and talc? 12 Are you with me? That's why I brought this out. 13 A I understand your reason in asking about it now, 14 yes. 15 MR. BICKS: So can we blow up, Jim, the second 16 paragraph. 17 Q Do you see here where Dr. Selikoff is stating that 18 "I specifically stated that I was in agreement with 19 Dr. Chalmers." 20 Are you with me? 21 A Yes. 22 Q To you, as someone who listens to this, when you 23 hear Dr. Selikoff agreeing with a comment about the 24 safety of Johnson's baby powder and the absence of 25 asbestos, as somebody in your field, do you put Page 655 1 weight in what somebody like Dr. Selikoff says? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Because he was somebody who was pretty tough on 4 companies, and if he had a point of view that was 5 different, he didn't hesitate to speak out; right? 6 A Right. 7 Q And are you also familiar with -- and again, this 8 goes back to what you do in your work, is you look 9 at what's known and knowable; right? What's out 10 there for people to see, you go to libraries, you 11 find articles and things like that; right? 12 A Right. 13 Q So did you tell the jury yesterday about the 14 published study that came out in 1976 by -- do you 15 remember Dr. Rohl? Do you know who he is? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Tell the jury who he is. 18 A He was one of the microscopists who worked at Mount 19 Sinai School of Medicine. 20 Q Are you -- do you have a position to tell our jury 21 anything about -- was he a good scientist? 22 A Well, as far as I know, yes. 23 Q Are you familiar that in 1976, Mount Sinai released 24 a study in the peer-reviewed literature by 25 Professor Rohl, Dr. Langer, and Dr. Selikoff that Page 656 1 examined a bunch of different talc samples? Are 2 you familiar with that? 3 A I think so. 4 Q Do you know what that article concluded about 5 Johnson & Johnson's talc? 6 A I don't recall the names of the individual 7 companies appearing in the article, at least the 8 ones I'm thinking of. 9 Q Have you ever made any effort, as part of coming 10 here to speak with this jury, to determine what 11 actual samples were being referred to in that 12 article? 13 A No, not beyond what the article itself says. 14 Q Do you know what samples were being referred to in 15 the article? 16 A Not off the top of my head. 17 Q Let me show you Exhibit 8096. 18 MR. BICKS: I think this is stipulated in. 19 MR. FINCH: No objection. 20 THE COURT: All right. The Court shows it 21 admitted. 22 BY MR. BICKS: 23 Q So have you seen this article before? And we can 24 just go to the top and leave this for a minute. 25 Have you seen this before? Page 657 1 A Yes. (19:11 2 Q If you look at the folks who wrote this, can you (19:11 3 think of scientists who were any better in the 4 world at this time at looking at the question of 5 whether or not there was asbestos in cosmetic talc? 6 A Well, the only ones I recognize are the ones from (19:11 7 the Mount Sinai lab, Rohl, Langer, and Selikoff. I 8 don't know the other three. Three or four. 9 Q It's a little bit tricky here, but I'd like to go (19:11 10 to 8096 in the table. It's Table 4, I'll pull it 11 up on the screen. It's a little bit hard to see. 12 Can you see that? 13 A I think it would be easier for me to read it here. (19:11 14 I do. 15 MR. BICKS: Can you just highlight, Jim. (19:11 16 Q I've highlighted some columns here for you, and (19:11 17 I've highlighted certain samples. Do you see that? 18 A Yes. (19:12 19 Q 4, 9, 18, and 20. (19:12 20 A Yes. (19:12 21 Q And then I've highlighted tremolite, anthophyllite, (19:12 22 and chrysotile. 23 Do you see that? (19:12 24 A Yes. (19:12 25 Q So this is looking at a bunch of different (19:12 Page 658 1 companies' samples and determining whether or not 2 the folks at Mount Sinai saw any asbestos in them; 3 right? 4 A That's right. 5 Q For those samples, they saw nothing; right? 6 A They did not detect it, that's right. 7 Q And you would expect this group of scientists to be 8 using the best methodology; right? No? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Do you know whose samples those are that I've 11 highlighted? 12 A What products or what companies? No, that's not in 13 the article, I don't think. 14 Q Well, what you can do -- and let me just ask you by 15 the way, did plaintiffs' counsel show to you the 16 key that goes with these different samples? 17 MR. FINCH: Object, form. The key is not 18 publicly available. 19 THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection. 20 MR. BICKS: May I approach, Your Honor? 21 THE COURT: Yes. 22 MR. BICKS: So I have before you 8240. This 23 is stipulated in through Dr. Hopkins. So I would 24 tender the exhibit. 25 THE COURT: Any objection? Page 659 1 MR. FINCH: No. 2 THE COURT: Oh, you said it was stipulated. 3 The Court shows it admitted. 4 BY MR. BICKS: 5 Q So you see this is a list - 6 MR. BICKS: If we can kind of blow it up 7 there, Jim. 8 Q This is a list that -- of different samples of talc 9 and it's got numbers, 4, 9, 18, 20. 10 Do you see that? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And those are the ones that are Johnson & Johnson; 13 right? 14 A According to this document, yes. 15 Q Right, 4, 9, 18, and 20, and these are the same 16 ones that are referred to in the Selikoff article; 17 right? 18 A I don't know if that's the case or not. 19 Q Well, you do know, because I think you had some 20 sense of -- and you don't dispute that; right? 21 A No. 22 Q You don't dispute that Selikoff, Rohl, Langer 23 looked at Johnson & Johnson's talc and tested it 24 and didn't find asbestos; right? 25 A That appears to be the case from what you've just Page 660 1 shown me. 2 Q Right. And to the point that counsel made, I mean, (19:14 3 you are aware that this was reported in the media; 4 right? Have you seen articles in the New York 5 Times that reported these results and concluding 6 that Johnson & Johnson's powder did not have 7 asbestos in it? 8 A I recall there were reports in the media earlier, (19:15 9 well, earlier in the month of -- I think of March 10 of 1976, yes. 11 Q So let me show you 8402. Do you remember the New (19:15 12 York Times coming out with an article that 13 indicated that following up on this scientific 14 study, that Johnson & Johnson's baby powder did not 15 have asbestos in it? 16 MR. BICKS: And 8402, it's again used with 14:39 17 Dr. Hopkins. I would move for its admission. 18 MR. FINCH: No objection. (19:15 19 THE COURT: The Court shows it admitted (19:15 20 without objection. 21 BY MR. BICKS: (19:58 22 Q So if you -- have you seen this before, by the way, (19:15 23 Dr. Castleman? 24 A What's the date? I can't tell what the date of it (19:16 25 is, of the article itself is. It just says 1976. Page 661 1 Q Yeah, if you go up - 2 A 3-10, it looks like March 10. 3 Q March 10, 1976. 4 A Yeah, I think I have seen this. 5 Q And can we just highlight -- do you see that it 6 says that the products that the research found 7 uncontaminated with asbestos fibers, and it lists 8 Johnson's -- two Johnson & Johnson's baby powders, 9 do you see that? 10 A Yes, I do. 11 Q Is that consistent with what you remember, that 12 Mount Sinai and these researchers had tested 13 Johnson & Johnson's baby powder and found that it 14 did not contain asbestos? 15 A Or that they did not detect asbestos in it, yes. 16 Q Right. And I'm just saying for you, if you were 17 back in that time, and we can't go back in time, 18 but if you were in the position at a company at 19 this time and you were receiving information from 20 Mount Sinai to this effect, how much stock would 21 you put in that information? 22 A Well, I would find that reassuring. 23 Q I think you were asked before, in the 1970s, a 24 company like Johnson & Johnson, who should they 25 have looked to to determine what the gold standard Page 662 1 in testing was? Do you remember who you said? 2 A I would have thought Mount Sinai. 3 Q You also have talked about before something called 4 the National Institute of Occupational Safety and 5 Health. Are you familiar with that government 6 agency? 7 A I am. 8 Q Is NIOSH a recognized authority on public health 9 matters relating to asbestos? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Were they such an authority going back to the 12 1970s? 13 A They were. 14 Q In your own work, do you rely on NIOSH and its 15 publications? 16 A Yep. 17 Q Do you think it would be reasonable for a company 18 evaluating science issues on talc in particular to 19 pay attention to what NIOSH says? 20 A Yeah. 21 Q What about the Harvard School of Public Health, do 22 you think that's a reputable institution? 23 A Generally, yes. 24 Q Same questions as to NIOSH, would it be responsible 25 for a company to listen to research results from Page 663 1 the Harvard School of Public Health? 2 A Yeah. 3 Q Are you familiar that the Harvard School of Public 4 Health and NIOSH published a study on Johnson & 5 Johnson's talc deposit in Vermont and actually took 6 samples from that deposit; are you familiar with 7 that? 8 A I'm not sure if I'm familiar with the particular 9 study you're talking about. 10 Q Well, let me see if I can help you out. 8079 is 11 before you. 12 MR. BICKS: Your Honor, this is an exhibit 13 that I think is stipulated with Dr. Hopkins. I 14 would move to admit. 15 MR. FINCH: No objection. 16 THE COURT: The Court shows it admitted 17 without objection. 18 BY MR. BICKS: 19 Q Have you seen this before, Dr. Castleman? 20 A I may have. I'm not sure. 21 Q Well, if you look at the folks up at the top and 22 their names, Maryann Boundy, Karen Gold, Kenneth 23 Martin, William Burgess, and John Dement, in your 24 field, have you come across these individuals 25 before? Page 664 1 A Some of them. Certainly Burgess and Dement. 2 Q And tell us our jury who Burgess and Dement are. 3 A Burgess wrote a book on industrial hygiene, and 4 John Dement has published extensively on asbestos (19:20 09:20 09:20 5 and disease. 6 Q And would you consider these people as some of the 09:20 7 top in the field? 8 A Yeah. 09:20 9 Q Maryann Boundy, do you know who she is? 09:20 10 A No, I don't. 09:20 11 Q A recognized person, expert in minerals and so 09:20 12 forth from North Carolina. Any of that ring a 13 bell? 14 A No, I don't -- I don't know the first three 09:20 15 authors. 16 Q And again, I want to just come back to this, 09:20 17 because you talked a lot about -- on your direct 18 about the hazards of asbestos. I guess my question 19 to you, have you done a deep dive in terms of the 20 published literature on the safety of the talc that 21 Johnson & Johnson used? 22 A I wouldn't call it a deep dive. I'm familiar with 09: 21 23 a couple of mines that I've heard that they used, 24 but I haven't tried to read everything that's ever 25 been published about those mines and the material Page 665 1 from them. 2 Q So I guess my question is, in your research, did (19:21 3 you come up with this article? 4 A Like I think I said, I don't really recall the (19:21 5 article, but I may have seen it at some time. 6 Q Well, did you know -- and maybe we can just (19:21 7 highlight the introduction here. Did you know that 8 these scientists had gone back and looked at 9 geological studies dating from the early 1900s that 10 have shown that the Vermont talc deposits contained 11 no asbestos? Had you ever seen this before until I 12 showed it to you today? 13 A You're talking about this article? (19:22 14 Q Yes, and this particular statement. (19:22 15 A Well, I certainly don't recall the statement, and I (19:22 16 really don't recall the article, although as I say, 17 I may have come across this article at some time in 18 my life and I don't recall. 19 MR. BICKS: And can we go, please, Jim, to the (19:22 20 bulk samples. 21 Q And I don't want to -- if you're not that familiar (19:22 22 with this, but are you aware that these scientists 23 actually at NIOSH did sampling from this deposit 24 that included petrographic microscope analysis, 25 transmission electron microscopy, and x-ray Page 666 1 diffraction with step-scanning, do you know 2 anything about that? 3 A Well, as I said, I don't recall this article in any (19:22 4 detail. If I've seen it before, I don't recall 5 whether I've seen it before. So these are details 6 that I can't recall either. 7 Q Are you familiar, then, with the findings that they (19:23 8 made based on their testing? 9 A No. You can see whatever it is that's in the (19:23 10 article. It says what it says. 11 Q I take it you didn't do any research to look into (19:23 12 how they did this, what they did, and you didn't 13 make any effort to reach out to them; right? 14 A That's right. (19:23 15 Q Because there have been certain circumstances where (19:23 16 they're scientists and you do reach out to them; 17 right? 18 A I have on occasion, sure. (19:23 19 Q Right. You wrote letters to Johnson & Johnson, (19:23 20 they got back to you promptly and, I think it's 21 fair to say, treated you with respect; is that 22 fair? 23 A Well, they seemed to, yes. (19:23 24 Q I don't remember -- I remember when I was in (19:23 25 college, if I wrote letters to senior people, there Page 667 1 may have been times when I never heard back from 2 them. That didn't happen to you with Johnson & 3 Johnson; right? 4 A Right. (19:23 5 Q What about Lancet? You mentioned Lancet on your (19:24 6 direct. And tell our jury of the reputation of 7 Lancet. 8 A It's a general medical journal, like the Journal of (19:24 9 the American Medical Association and the British 10 Medical Journal. 11 Q And do you consider that a respected journal? I (19:24 12 think you said it may have been the oldest journal, 13 British Medical Journal, is that what you had said? 14 A Yes. (19:24 15 Q Are you familiar with publications by Lancet that (19:24 16 deal with cosmetic talc? 17 A I think I've seen publications in The Lancet about (19:24 18 cosmetic talc or about talc. 19 Q And The Lancet, can you think of any journal that (19:25 20 has a better reputation than Lancet? 21 A Well, it has a good reputation, like a lot of (19:25 22 journals do. I mean, there are always going to be 23 things that get published that can be published in 24 any journal that turn out to be flawed. But 25 generally speaking, they're as respected as any Page 668 1 journal. 2 Q I think on direct, I'm only asking -- you mentioned (19:25 3 Lancet, so that's why I'm raising it. 4 A Well, I just mentioned it from the standpoint of (19:25 5 its availability of something that was -- The 6 Lancet being widely available. 7 Q Right. And it's something that certainly in your (19:25 8 work you rely on and have written about Lancet; 9 right? 10 A Sure. (19:25 11 Q So this is Exhibit 9100. It's a Lancet June 25, (19:25 12 1977, article. Have you seen this before? 13 A Yes. (19:26 14 MR. BICKS: I would move to admit this. (19:26 15 MR. FINCH: No objection. (19:26 16 THE COURT: The Court shows Exhibit 9100 (19:26 17 admitted without objection. 18 MR. BICKS: Can we go, Jim, to the last page (19:26 19 of this, and the last paragraph and blow it up, 20 please. 21 BY MR. BICKS: (19:26 22 Q And this -- so we're clear, this is an article that (19:26 23 appears in Lancet, June 25, 1977. And we're at the 24 conclusion. The topic of this is cosmetic talc 25 powder; right? Page 669 1 A Yes. 2 Q And you see what I have up here, the summary is 3 that -- and just to orient us, this is 1977. And 4 the summary here is that "There's no reason to (19:26 (19:26 5 believe that normal consumer exposure to cosmetic 6 talc has in the past led either to cancer at any 7 site or to measurable loss of lung function. It 8 seems unlikely that future exposure to cosmetic 9 talc of the specifications now agreed to by major 10 manufacturers will present a health hazard." 11 Did I read that right? (19:27 12 A Yes, you did. (19:27 13 Q In somebody in your field, back in 1977, when you (19:27 14 read something like this in Lancet, is this 15 something that you place stock in? 16 A Yes. (19:27 17 Q Now, one thing that you do have in your book is (19:27 18 you've written about products like Kaylo. Can you 19 tell our jury what Kaylo is. 20 A That was an insulation containing asbestos that was (19:27 21 made by a company called Owens Corning. 22 Q And a good product or bad product? (19:27 23 A As far as I understand, it worked fine as an (19:27 24 insulation material. The only danger was that the 25 dust could lead to asbestos diseases. Page 670 1 Q You've written about Kaylo in your book; right? 2 A Yes. 3 MR. BICKS: Can we just go to the ELMO, 4 please. 5 Q And for the record, I've got your fifth edition 6 book, "Asbestos medical and legal aspects." I have (19:28 (19:28 (19:28 (19:28 7 your chapter here on Owens Corning. You mentioned 8 Owens Corning; right? 9 A Right. (19:28 10 Q You see there the reference to -- that they made a (19:28 11 series of products. They made insulation 12 materials. Are you with me? And something called 13 Kaylo; right? 14 A Right. (19:28 15 Q Do you remember whether or not Kaylo had asbestos (19:28 16 in it? 17 A It did. (19:29 18 Q Do you remember how much? (19:29 19 A Well, I think about 10 to 15 percent. (19:29 20 Q Yeah, close, very close. It's actually 12 to (19:29 21 18 percent. 22 There we go. It's a little slanted, but you (19:29 23 see here the 12 to 18 percent. Does that sound 24 about right? 25 A Well, that's an internal document of the company. (19:29 Page 671 1 I would imagine that that's correct. 2 Q Yeah, yeah. And do you remember whether or not - (19:29 3 no question that this is a real health hazard, 4 right, having 12 to 18 percent in insulation 5 material like this; right? 6 A Right. (19:30 7 Q And do you know -- I think you had reported in some 09:30 8 of your studies about the amount of dust that would 9 be released when somebody's manipulating that 10 Kaylo; right? Do you remember writing about that? 11 A Yeah. 09:30 12 Q And I'm happy to show it to you, but can you just 09:30 13 tell our jury -- and just so our jury is oriented, 14 do you know actually about the specific allegations 15 in this case about exposure? 16 A Well, I haven't read any of the legal documents, so 09:30 17 I guess the answer is no. 18 Q You don't know that the plaintiff in this case, a 09:30 19 very nice lady, Ms. Lewis, worked at a facility in 20 Kokomo, Indiana. Do you know anything about that? 21 A I understand that she worked with some dental 09:30 22 appliances. That's all I know about that. 23 Q So you don't -- you haven't been informed that 09:31 24 she's claiming that she was exposed to asbestos at 25 a Delco facility because of work that was being Page 672 1 done there. Do you know anything about that? 2 A Just in general. I haven't read any of the (19:31 3 specific testimony or documents. 4 Q So when you come here, and I appreciate you talk (19:31 5 about certain things, but you haven't informed 6 yourself about what the specific claim in the case 7 is, then, about exposure? 8 A No, I don't read the medical records and the (19:31 9 testimony of all the individuals in the case, no. 10 Q But have you testified before in cases where a (19:31 11 plaintiff law firm hires you and the question in 12 the case is, did somebody get sick from Kaylo 13 exposure? 14 A I've never been asked to testify about that in (19:31 15 particular. I don't testify about medical 16 causation. My testimony is about what was known 17 and knowable about the hazards of the product by 18 the manufacturer. In the case of Owens Corning, 19 there are internal corporate documents showing that 20 they knew about the hazards of asbestos in their 21 product from practically the time the product was 22 introduced. 23 Q Fair point. In other words, when you come to (19:32 24 testify, you've got -- and I don't mean it 25 negatively, but I think it's fair, you've got Page 673 1 blinders on, you're focusing on kind of what you 2 know, and you're not looking at kind of the whole 3 picture of the case. 4 A Well, I wouldn't put it that way, but my part of 5 the case is just part of it. It's about the 6 history, the knowledge of asbestos. It's not about 7 the medical pathology related to the diagnosis and 8 medical care and treatment of the individuals. I 9 mean, I have a limited role in all of these cases. 10 Q Right. But fair enough. My only question is, you 11 have testified in cases about knowledge about 12 Kaylo; right? 13 A Yeah. 14 Q But you haven't been asked by plaintiffs to share 15 that knowledge here, I take it. 16 A About Kaylo, no. 17 Q So you have done work -- and Kaylo also had what's 18 called commercial amphibole asbestos in it; right? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Tell our jury what commercial amphibole asbestos 21 is. 22 A Well, in the case of Kaylo, it was a product called 23 amosite asbestos that came from South Africa. 24 Q How dangerous is exposure to amosite asbestos? 25 A Well, like all forms of asbestos, it causes Page 674 1 mesothelioma. 2 Q Can it cause mesothelioma if it's a short exposure? (19:33 3 A Yes. (19:33 4 Q Were you provided with the testimony in this case (19:33 5 of the plaintiffs' expert, Dr. Ellenbecker. Do you 6 know who he is? 7 A I've heard of Dr. Ellenbecker, but I haven't read (19:33 8 any testimony that Dr. Ellenbecker may have 9 recorded in connection with this case. 10 Q You weren't provided with his testimony about (19:33 11 amosite and things of that nature? 12 A No. (19:34 13 Q So I want to just show you, back to this Kaylo and (19:34 14 your work on exposure, you have indicated -- and 15 this is from your book. Are you with me? 16 A Yes. (19:34 17 Q And here you're talking about -- what I'm trying to (19:34 18 orient our jury on is an understanding of what can 19 be released in terms of exposure from Kaylo. And 20 this is something you've written about; right? 21 A Right. (19:34 22 Q And, in fact, here you have an entry that talks (19:34 23 about dust counts of Kaylo release; right? 24 A Right. (19:34 25 Q And it says there, "3.1 to 100.4 mppcf for (19:34 Page 675 1 Thermobestos and 3.1 to 17.1 mppcf for Kaylo." 2 That's a lot of letters and a mouthful, but I (19:35 3 bet you can translate it for us. What's that 4 saying? 5 A Well, mppcf means millions of particles per cubic (19:35 6 foot. And at least the higher range of those 7 numbers would probably be visibly dusty, not the 8 lower range. 9 Q So let me see if I can then translate it. A cubic (19:35 10 foot, like let's imagine that we took a clear box, 11 right, cubic foot would be like this, right. I 12 pulled it up like this and it would be a box 12 by 13 12 by 12, right? 14 A Right, inches. (19:35 15 Q And so I would hold it up, and this says Kaylo dust (19:35 16 counts ranged from 13.1 to 101.4. Is that million 17 particles per cubic foot? 18 A Right. (19:36 19 Q And then for Thermobestos, 3.1 to 17.1 million (19:36 20 particles per cubic foot for Kaylo; right? 21 A Well, the first figures are for a Johns Manville (19:36 22 product called Thermobestos, and the second range 23 is for an Owens Corning product called Kaylo. 24 They're both thermal insulation products. 25 Q Right. And just again, we're talking like millions (19:36 Page 676 1 of particles in just one cubic foot; right? 2 A Right. (19:36 3 Q So if somebody's there, say, several years, would (19:36 4 you be in a position to give us a sense of how much 5 exposure there might be, or is that outside of your 6 wheelhouse? 7 A It is. I mean, we're talking about exposure a (19:36 8 worker would get from sawing up these materials, as 9 I understand this document. 10 Q Right. And you don't know enough about what was (19:36 11 actually going on in this case to really comment 12 upon that; right? 13 A Well, I don't do these kinds of projections and (19:37 14 estimates about what the individual exposures might 15 be for, say, a bystander to some Kaylo handling 16 that may have taken place. 17 Q But you have written about -- and let me just back (19:37 18 up for a minute. I want to put this down. I want 19 to ask you about this. This is in your book, and I 20 guess it's a chapter by somebody named Stephen 21 Berger. 22 A This is the one chapter contributed by someone (19:37 23 else, yes. 24 Q Good chapter, good work, you think? (19:37 25 A Well, I wouldn't have published it in my book if I (19:37 Page 677 1 didn't think it was good. 2 Q I got that. It says here in the introduction, "Of (19:37 3 all the uses of asbestos that have achieved 4 widespread application, none can rival the toll of 5 death and disease resulting from the use of thermal 6 insulation used in the presence of millions of 7 workers in shipyards, sites, refineries, chemical, 8 power plants. The dust from insulation wafted into 9 surrounding communities in an ever-widening radius 10 of destruction." 11 That's what was written in your book by (19:38 12 Mr. Berger; right? 13 A Right. (19:38 14 Q And you spoke about on direct the work of (19:38 15 Dr. Selikoff with insulators; right? 16 A Right. (19:38 17 Q Our jury -- this was new to me till I learned it. (19:38 18 But these are people who are putting, like, pipe 19 covering on, you know, really hot stuff; right? 20 And insulating it with pipe covering; right? 21 A Right. That was the purpose of thermal insulation. (19:38 22 Q It can be really dangerous is what this is saying; (19:38 23 right? 24 A Yes. (19:38 25 Q In fact, Dr. Selikoff, who you mentioned, he did (19:38 Page 678 1 studies on people who were doing this thermal 2 insulation; right? 3 A That was their regular job, right. (19:39 4 Q I know there are a bunch of studies that he did, (19:39 5 but can you give us a ballpark of those folks who 6 were around thermal insulation, how many of those 7 folks got mesothelioma; do you remember the results 8 of those studies? 9 A No. The largest number of excess deaths was from (19:39 10 lung cancer followed by mesothelioma among the 11 insulation workers. By excess deaths, I mean 12 deaths above and beyond the number you would have 13 expected from that cause in a population of men of 14 that size. 15 Q And I appreciate the lung cancer issue, but I guess (19:39 16 my question was just on mesothelioma. I don't 17 think there's any dispute that a lot of those 18 insulators got mesothelioma, and that was a real 19 concern to Dr. Selikoff; right? 20 A Yes. (19:40 21 Q I mean, that was one of the most landmark studies, 09:40 22 that the folks who were working around this pipe 23 covering got a lot of mesothelioma? 24 A Yes. 09:40 25 Q You've also written about fireproofing and things 09:40 Page 679 1 like that; right? 2 A Well, sprayed fireproofing was another material (19:40 3 containing asbestos that was the subject of a lot 4 of controversy starting in 1968 with an article in 5 the New Yorker magazine about that. 6 Q How much asbestos was in that kind of material? 09:40 7 A I think around 30 percent in some of those 09:40 8 products. 9 Q A lot of asbestos in those things; right? 09:40 10 A Right. 09:40 11 Q So a couple more topics, and then we're done. 09:40 12 Now, I want to come back to your work with the 09: 41 13 Motley firm. You've worked with them a long time; 14 right? 15 A Well, yes. 09:41 16 Q And you mentioned Ron Motley, that you worked with 09: 41 17 him back in the '70s; right? 18 A Right. 09:41 19 Q And you had communications with Dr. Selikoff also 09:41 20 during the 1970s; right? 21 A Right. 09:41 22 Q In fact, you had written communications with 09:41 23 Dr. Selikoff during that time period; correct? 24 Right? 25 A Yes, I did. 09:41 Page 680 1 Q So before you is Exhibit 12231. 2 MR. BICKS: I'd move to admit it. 3 THE COURT: Any objection? 4 MR. FINCH: No objection, Your Honor. 5 THE COURT: The Court shows it admitted 6 without objection. 7 BY MR. BICKS: 8 Q So you've seen this before, Mr. Castleman, have you 9 not? 10 A I have. 11 MR. BICKS: Can we go, Jim, just to the top 12 and orient ourselves. 13 Q This is a memorandum from Barry Castleman to Irving 14 Selikoff, and it's dated November 5, 1979; right? 15 A That's what it says. 16 Q At that point, you had been involved testifying - 17 that's when you had first started testifying for 18 plaintiffs, right, around that year? 19 A I had testified in one trial as of that date. 20 Q And you had started consulting three years before 21 that; right? 22 A Yes. 23 Q This letter, you're actually asking in writing that 24 information not be turned over that could impact 25 the case; right? Page 681 1 A Well, this is a document I was shown in (19:43 2 cross-examination in 2010 by a lawyer who wouldn't 3 say where he found it. I don't remember it. I 4 didn't remember it then. And it's not a form of my 5 typical letters to Dr. Selikoff. It's not on my 6 letterhead. My letters normally were, Dear Irving, 7 signed Barry, was the normal form of all of my 8 communications with Dr. Selikoff. And this is not 9 signed. 10 Q Right. But I've read your sworn testimony, and (19:43 11 I'll bring it out if you want. You have testified 12 under oath that you probably wrote this. 13 A I may have written it. (19:44 14 Q If we just back off for a minute and you look at (19:44 15 this, there's a lot of detail in this memo. You're 16 not suggesting that somebody fabricated this, are 17 you? 18 A Well, it could have been something that Motley (19:44 19 wanted me to send. Clearly the first two 20 paragraphs are describing Motley's concerns. 21 Q Right. (19:44 22 MR. BICKS: And let's just back off -- back (19:44 23 out for a minute, Jim, so we make sure that we see 24 this. You know, just go down to the bottom, for 25 example. You see the detail, if you can blow that Page 682 1 up. 2 Q This was an area that you were really involved (19:44 3 with, right, this fellow Vorwald's files and 4 something called the Braun-Truan study, Johns 5 Manville. I mean, this is really kind of part of 6 the research that you were doing; right? 7 A Yes. (19:44 8 Q And it's got things in there right above, "I'll try (19:44 9 to call you in a week with more information," 10 things like that. 11 You were in touch with Dr. Selikoff during (19:45 12 this time period; right? 13 A Yes. (19:45 14 Q So let's just go back up to the top. I mean, it's (19:45 15 got your memorandum from Barry Castleman to Irving 16 Selikoff right at the top; right? 17 A That's what it says, yes. (19:45 18 Q I want to go through this so our jury sees it. You (19:45 19 say here that Ron Motley informs you that the 20 industry lawyers are hoping to get cases thrown out 21 of court by showing that the insulators themselves 22 knew about their job risks; right? 23 A That's what it says. (19:45 24 Q So you're now writing -- this Ron Motley -- just to (19:45 25 be clear, this is the Motley Rice firm that you're Page 683 1 working with; right? 2 A Yes. (19:45 3 Q And they represent plaintiffs in personal injury (19:45 4 asbestos cases; right? 5 A Yes. (19:45 6 Q And this was during a time period when you're (19:45 7 starting to get up and running as an expert 8 testifying for plaintiffs, right, to orient us? 9 A It's the beginning of my involvement as a (19:46 10 testifying expert witness, yes. 11 Q Right. And you're working with Ron Motley on these (19:46 12 kind of cases; right? 13 A Correct. (19:46 14 Q So he's informing you about industry lawyers. And (19:46 15 it says that the defendants hope to obtain 16 questionnaire materials used by you and Dr. Hammond 17 in the expectation of finding reference to when the 18 men said they first became aware of the dangers of 19 their trade; right? Ron and the other Plaintiffs' 20 lawyers are afraid that some of men would have 21 answered with 20/20 hindsight, recalling vaguely 22 that, I heard something back in the early 1940s; 23 right? 24 A That's what it says. (19:46 25 Q So our jury understands, one of the things you've (19:46 Page 684 1 talked about, and if we look at the second 2 paragraph, "Discovery of such statements in 3 writing, even though made without much care and 4 without any knowledge that rights to compensation 5 might be jeopardized without any consultation with 6 their attorneys could throw out individual claims. 7 Further, a significant number of such statements 8 pre-1964 would hurt the state of the art case for 9 all the plaintiffs." 10 That's what's written here; right? (19:47 11 A Right. (19:47 12 Q And the state of the art case, that's what you (19:47 13 testified about, that's what you do; right? 14 A Right. (19:47 15 Q What was known when, that's what you come to court (19:47 16 and that's what you tell juries about; right? 17 A Right. (19:47 18 Q So what's being stated here is that if evidence was (19:47 19 turned over which showed that somebody knew about 20 something, say, in the '50s, that might hurt the 21 state of the art case when a witness like you wants 22 to come to court and say, nobody told them, they 23 didn't know? That's what people were worried 24 about; right? 25 A Well, that's apparently what Motley was worried (19:47 Page 685 1 about, but Selikoff would have even asked the 2 lawyers -- would have even asked his patients a 3 legal question in his medical questionnaires. 4 Q And to cut to the chase, that's not right, is it, (19:48 5 from a perspective of someone in your position in 6 public health, to be writing a letter to somebody 7 and say, don't turn over information because it may 8 hurt my case? 9 A Well - (19:48 10 Q You cannot be in court today in front of this jury (19:48 11 and this judge and say that this is all right. 12 A Well, as I'm saying, this would -- I was conveying (19:48 13 Motley's concerns in the first two paragraphs. 14 Q Well, you know, there are people who can say, you (19:48 15 know what, I know you've asked me to write this, 16 but I'm a public health person at Johns Hopkins, 17 and I'm not going to do it. Did you say that? 18 A No, I don't recall anything about this document. (19:48 19 Q So last question. The first thing you started out (19:49 20 with on your direct was your CV. 21 Do you remember that? (19:49 22 A Yeah. (19:49 23 MR. BICKS: ELMO, please, Jim. (19:49 24 Q And this is your CV that -- right, you spoke to the (19:49 25 jury about; right? Page 686 1 A Right. 2 Q Because I was looking at it, and we all probably 3 see a lot of CVs. I was looking on your CV for 4 your employment history. Where on the CV is that? 5 A I only described the history since I became an 6 independent consultant on the CV. I don't mention (19:49 (19:49 (19:50 7 that I worked in the chemical industry for about a 8 year; I worked as a public health official for 9 about a year and a half; and I worked for 10 nongovernmental organizations, the Center for 11 Science in the Public Interest and the 12 Environmental Defense Fund, for less than a year 13 each before 1975. 14 Q Got it. So I just -- because most people on their 09:50 15 resume, they have their employment history, 16 education and then their professional work. You 17 don't have anything here about your employment 18 history is what you're saying? 19 A I don't include the employment history before 1975, 09:50 20 but it's well known to the people in this 21 litigation. 22 Q Oh, but it may not be well known to our jury 09:51 23 because they don't know you until they met you; 24 right? 25 A Oh, right. If you want to talk about it, go ahead, 09: 51 Page 687 1 let's talk about it. 2 Q Well, I think it's fair, do you not agree with me, (19:51 3 that when you present a resume to somebody, it's 4 not unfair to say, I'd like to see the employment 5 history on the resume; right? That's not 6 unreasonable? 7 A No. (19:51 8 Q So you have on here your degree at Johns Hopkins in (19:51 9 1968; right? 10 A My education, yes, is complete as to my college (19:51 11 degrees. 12 Q But you don't have on here that you began working (19:51 13 for Hercules, and you worked there for about a year 14 and a half; right? 15 A Right. (19:51 16 Q It's a little bit complicated, and I guess you (19:51 17 weren't exactly fired, but you were asked to leave 18 and you came back. But things didn't work out 19 there; right? 20 A Well, it worked out fine until I started (19:52 21 complaining about the way they were dumping 22 hazardous wastes and met with the senior vice 23 president, and that upset all the people along the 24 way who I didn't bother consulting with on my way 25 to meeting with the vice president. Page 688 1 Q Right. But you were basically asked to leave 2 Hercules; right? 3 A I was asked to leave a couple of days before my 4 scheduled departure, yes. 5 Q And then what was your next job after that? 6 A Baltimore County Health Department. 7 Q That was about 1972? 8 A '72 and '73. 9 Q I take it that's not on your resume either; right? 10 A No. 11 Q You worked there for, what, about a year and a 12 half? 13 A Right. 14 Q You were fired from that job, then you were 15 rehired, and then you quit; did I read that right? 16 A Right. They fired me for testifying at a Senate 17 hearing and talking about community exposure to 18 asbestos. 19 Q And I know you're going to want to say why you got 20 fired, but just listen to what I'm asking you. I'm 21 asking you, were you fired, rehired, and then did 22 you quit? 23 A I was rehired with full backpay and then I quit. 24 Q And then after the Baltimore County job, you 25 were -- what was your next job? Page 689 1 A Center for Science in the Public Interest. 2 Q That was '73, '74, a little less than a year? 3 A Right. 4 Q That job, that's not on your CV either; right? 5 A No. 6 Q You were there for, what, about nine months, and 7 fair to say you were fired from that job? 8 A No. I'm still on good terms with those people, and 9 I just moved on to the next job. 10 Q Right. So your testimony when you were asked and 11 you said, they fired me a month after we got (19:53 (19:53 (19:53 (19:53 (19:53 (19:53 (19:53 (19:53 12 asbestos-contaminated salt off the market, that 13 wasn't accurate? 14 A That was the next job. (19:54 15 Q Oh, so you got fired from the next job. I mixed (19:54 16 one up. 17 A Right. That's when I decided to become an (19:54 18 independent consultant. I haven't had a boss since 19 1975. 20 Q Well, your independent consulting, all of your (19:54 21 money is made because you testify for plaintiffs in 22 lawsuits; right? 23 A Most of my money comes from my involvement in (19:54 24 litigation. No independent -- no individual lawyer 25 can tell me what to do. Page 690 1 Q Right. But when you say most, let's be fair. (19:54 2 We're talking, like, over 90 percent; right? 3 A Yes. (19:54 4 MR. BICKS: Thank you, sir. (19:54 5 THE COURT: And that concludes cross? (19:54 6 MS. WEGLARZ: I just have a few questions. (19:54 7 THE COURT: Well, yes, but for Johnson & (19:54 8 Johnson. 9 MR. BICKS: Yes. (19:55 10 MS. WEGLARZ: Your Honor, I'd like to mark for (19:55 11 the record a piece of -- or the roll of tape that I 12 showed in opening statement as Exhibit 3. 13 MR. FINCH: As a demonstrative? (19:55 14 MS. WEGLARZ: Demonstrative only. (19:55 15 MR. FINCH: No objection for demonstrative (19:55 16 purposes. 17 THE COURT: All right. And could counsel (19:55 18 approach, please. 19 (A bench conference was held outside the (19:55 20 hearing of the jury.) 21 THE COURT: I just want to be clear that we (19:55 22 want to do direct, cross, second cross, and then 23 redirect. 24 MR. FINCH: Redirect, and that'll be it for (19:55 25 this witness. Page 691 1 THE COURT: For all the witnesses? 2 MR. FINCH: That's my understanding, yes. 3 THE COURT: Thank you. 4 (Resumption of live trial proceedings.) 5 MS. WEGLARZ: May I approach the witness? 6 THE COURT: Yes. 7 CROSS-EXAMINATION 8 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 9 Q Hello, good morning. I just gave you what's been 10 marked as demonstrative Exhibit 3. It's a roll of 11 pipe tape. You've seen this kind of a product 12 before; right? 13 A Yeah. 14 Q This is not -- when we're talking about insulation, 15 this is not insulation; right? 16 A It is not. 17 Q You can put that aside. 18 I represent a company called BMW Constructors. 19 I haven't read all of the editions of your book. 20 I've read the last one. Is it true that BMW 21 Constructors does not appear anywhere in your 22 books? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q You talked a little bit -- or we talked a little 25 bit about Kaylo. Kaylo was an insulation Page 692 1 manufacturer -- or was a type of -- sorry. I'm 2 rolling over my words. 3 Kaylo was a brand of insulation; right? (19:57 4 A Right. (19:57 5 Q And OCF, as of 1958, manufactured Kaylo? (19:57 6 A Yes. (19:57 7 Q When did OCF start -- or decide to start putting a (19:57 8 label on that insulation; do you remember? 9 A I think around -- it was around 1970, I think. At (19:57 10 least the company doctor was writing about how 11 maybe we better start doing it in that year. 12 Q I think you wrote in your book it was maybe - (19:57 13 there's an internal memo, September 1970, that 14 they're saying, hey, maybe it's time we should 15 maybe start putting a label on asbestos insulation, 16 does that sound right? 17 A That's my recollection, yeah. (19:57 18 Q Do you agree that the employer of an individual is (19:57 19 responsible for providing a safe workplace? 20 A Generally, that's the way it's regarded, especially (19:57 21 since we had OSHA created in 1971. 22 Q Would that be the case even before OSHA was (19:58 23 created? 24 A Sure. That's at least people's expectation, if not (19:58 25 the reality. Page 693 1 Q You agree that it's the employer who has the most (19:58 2 control over the conditions in the workplace; is 3 that right? 4 A Sure. (19:58 5 Q That includes dust conditions? (19:58 6 A Yes. To the extent that there's dust in the (19:58 7 workplace, the employer is in a position to provide 8 measures to reduce the dust exposure of the 9 workers. 10 Q Just one last area. You agree that the knowledge (19:58 11 of hazards of asbestos has evolved over time? 12 A Yes. (19:58 13 Q We know a lot more today than we knew back in the (19:58 14 1930s? 15 A Yes. (19:58 16 Q And in the 1930s, the first studies were really (19:58 17 about people working in factories actually making 18 asbestos products? 19 A Well, the 1930s also included case reports of (19:59 20 asbestosis in office workers in asbestos factories 21 as well as production workers. 22 Q But in general, the epidemiology studies, what (19:59 23 people were concerned with were the people actually 24 making the asbestos products? 25 A In the '30s, yes. (19:59 Page 694 1 Q And when you're making these asbestos products, (19:59 2 we're talking about huge exposures to asbestos? 3 A Well, in some cases, more than others. Again, (19:59 4 these are imprecise words. 5 Q Well, if we talk about the Meriwether study, I (19:59 6 think you mentioned Meriwether on direct, that was 7 over in England; right? 8 A Right. He was initially writing about asbestos (19:59 9 textile plants, and they were particularly dusty. 10 Q And we're talking -- what are the dust counts we're (19:59 11 talking about, hundreds of millions of particles 12 per cubic feet? 13 A In some cases over a hundred million particles per (19:59 14 cubic foot, yes. 15 Q And then later, the epidemiology started looking at ( . 0:00 16 miners and millers, people actually extracting the 17 asbestos from the earth? 18 A Well, it was studies of asbestos miners as well as ( . 0:00 19 asbestos manufacturing plant workers, yes, in the 20 1930s, epidemiology studies. 21 Q And you'll agree that it wasn't until Selikoff did ( . 0:00 22 his studies in the mid 1960s that people actually 23 started linking use of an end product like asbestos 24 insulation to disease? 25 A No, that's incorrect. I mean, prior to Selikoff, ( . 0:00 Page 695 1 there were over 50 separate reports of death and 2 disease in insulators and, as I said, other 3 asbestos product users, published starting in the 4 early 1930s. They were case reports for the most 5 part. And then there were a few epidemiological 6 studies where they examined people who were 7 actively employed working as insulators and 8 reported on some fractional number of them that 9 were diagnosed as having asbestosis. 10 Q You mentioned there were case reports. Can you 11 explain to the jury what a case report is. 12 A A report of one or more individual cases of a 13 disease in a population. 14 Q A case report is drafted when someone finds 15 something, a doctor finds something peculiar, and 16 so they'll write it up to share it with other 17 doctors; right? 18 A Well, a case report could be published for lots of 19 reasons, but basically because the author thinks it 20 adds something to what's previously known about the 21 matter covered in the case report. 22 Q And you're familiar -- well, you worked with 23 Dr. Selikoff; right? 24 A Yes. 25 Q You're familiar with his "Partnership for Page 696 1 Prevention" program? 2 A I'm familiar with an article he published by that 3 title in 1970. 4 MS. WEGLARZ: Your Honor, may I approach the 5 witness? 6 THE COURT: Yes. 7 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 8 Q I'll hand you that article, just so you have it in 9 front of you. 10 A Thanks. 11 MS. WEGLARZ: And I'll mark it for the record. 12 I think the next exhibit would be 4. 13 MR. FINCH: For what purpose? I don't think 14 it goes back to the jury. 15 MS. WEGLARZ: It's not going back to the jury. 16 Just to talk about right now. Demonstrative 17 purposes only. 18 THE COURT: The Court shows admitted for 19 demonstrative purposes only. 20 MS. WEGLARZ: Well, illustrative, yeah, just 21 to be marked. 22 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 23 Q Can you turn to page 164, please. 24 A I'm sorry, what page? 25 Q I'm sorry, I don't know why I said that. Or 23. Page 697 1 A Yes. 2 Q And Selikoff writes in this article that -- and 3 he's talking about his work with insulation, the 4 insulation workers and his study that he was doing 5 in this; correct? 6 A Yes. He talks about that. 7 Q And he says, "Here we had, then, the first solid 8 evidence of these insulation workers were 9 experiencing exposures to dust inhalation in the 10 basic asbestos industry." 11 A I'm sorry, where does it say that, the first solid 12 evidence? 13 Q First paragraph of the page. 14 A Oh, yes. 15 Q So that's at least what Selikoff thought, right, 16 this is the first time they have solid evidence 17 that insulation workers are actually experiencing 18 these dust levels? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And he goes on to say that, "Our continuing study 21 of the work and health records of this group, union 22 members, confirms the higher risk of respiratory 23 disease and cancer for the insulating workers than 24 exists among the general population." 25 A Yes, that's what it says. Page 698 1 Q So at least in Selikoff's mind, this is the first 2 time they're actually seeing solid evidence that a 3 product like insulation, which releases hundreds, I 4 don't know, fibers per cubic feet sometimes, is a 5 problem? And this is in -- this article is 1970, 6 but they're talking about the studies in the mid 7 '60s; right? 8 MR. FINCH: Objection to form, multiple 9 compound questions there. 10 THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection. 11 Please rephrase the question. 12 BY MS. WEGLARZ: 13 Q Okay. At least in Selikoff's mind at this time, 14 he's saying that, my studies in the 1960s, this is 15 the first time we're actually confirming that 16 there's a problem with products that contain 17 insulation -- or contain asbestos, like insulation; 18 is that fair? 19 A Well, I mean, the sentence says what it says. It's 20 inconsistent with other things he published citing 21 a lot of the earlier work of reports of death and 22 disease. Maybe it's the term "solid evidence" that 23 makes a difference. I don't know. 24 Q But that's what Selikoff said; right? 25 A It says what it says, yes. Page 699 1 MS. WEGLARZ: Thank you. I have no further .0:05 2 questions. 3 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Weglarz. .0:05 4 Redirect? .0:05 5 MR. FINCH: Yes. .0:05 6 REDIRECT EXAMINATION .0:05 7 BY MR. FINCH: .0:05 8 Q Dr. Castleman -- .0:05 9 MR. FINCH: May I have the ELMO, Jon. .0:05 10 Q -- you were asked just a minute ago about case .0:05 11 reports. 12 A Yes. .0:05 13 Q Is the incidence of lung disease among people who .0:05 14 are vaping, is that a series of case reports that 15 the public health community is taking action based 16 on today? 17 A Right. .0:05 18 Q You were asked about this book jacket. .0:05 19 A Yes. .0:05 20 Q "I recommend it. It's unique." .0:05 21 Irving Selikoff, M.D., recommended your book? .0:05 22 A Yes. .0:05 23 Q It talks about information about asbestosis and .0:05 24 cancer, "company knowledge of asbestos hazards 25 gleaned from countless depositions, company Page 700 1 records, industry consultants, and trade 2 associations." 3 For internal company documents, are those 4 generally publicly available? 5 A No. 6 Q To see the full picture of the story of the 7 companies that you write about in this book, do you 8 have to see all of the company -- internal company 9 documents? 10 A Well, you have to make an effort to, and very often 11 when I'm deposed by the companies in discovery 12 depositions, I invite them to show me anything I 13 haven't seen in terms of their internal documents 14 that would give me a fuller understanding and 15 appreciation of the whole story. 16 Q When did you first start seeing Johnson & Johnson 17 internal documents? 18 A Quite recently. 19 Q Let's go through some of the exhibits that 20 Mr. Bicks showed you. I'm going to put them in two 21 piles, a publicly available pile and a not publicly 22 available pile. Can we do that? 23 A Sure. 24 Q So one of the things he showed you was an article 25 in The Lancet from 1977, "Cosmetic Talc Powder." Page 701 1 And that's publicly available; right? 2 A Right. 3 Q And in that article, I noted a part that Mr. Bicks 4 didn't ask you about. "If the inhalation of 5 particles of amphibole and silica contaminated talc 6 dust were found to be harmless, one might 7 reasonably assume that talc free from these 8 materials is safe. Kleinfeld and his colleagues 9 have studied the incidence of cancer and 10 respiratory disease in talc miners and millers in 11 New York State. The talc concerned, which is 12 heavily contaminated with both amphiboles and free 13 silica, was initially reported to be associated 14 with an increased mortality from mesothelioma and 15 cor pulmonale. Later the same workers reported 16 that men employed in the mine after dust levels had 17 been reduced had death-rates from malignancies that 18 were similar to those for White males in the U.S." 19 What is mesothelioma related to again? 20 A Asbestos. 21 Q And this is publicly available? 22 A Yes. 23 Q All right. This article in the New York Times, 24 "Asbestos found in ten powders," that's a publicly 25 available document; right? Page 702 1 A Yes. 2 Q Rohl, Langer, Selikoff, et cetera, this was a 3 publicly available document in 1976; right? 4 A I think the conference was in 1977 and it was 5 published in 1979, yes. 6 Q Okay. Just -- and just so - 7 MR. FINCH: Can I have a piece of blank paper. 8 Q It was published in 1976. 9 A Oh, I'm sorry. I'm confusing it with another 10 article by the same authors. Yes, that's correct. 11 Q And just so we're clear who's who at Mount Sinai, 12 I'm going to draw this first. Mount Sinai had a 13 president that was Dr. Chalmers. I think you were 14 shown a press release by him. 15 A Yeah. 16 Q And then Dr. Selikoff was senior in age and 17 responsibility to Rohl and Langer; is that right? 18 A Right. 19 Q And Langer and Rohl were the microscopists? 20 A Right. 21 Q I can't say that word. People who used microscopes 22 to look for asbestos or other things; right? 23 A That's right. 24 Q Now, Mr. Bicks showed you a letter from 25 Dr. Selikoff. The letter is publicly available, Page 703 1 and also, so is the New York Times article, where 2 they were quoting some of his statements; right? 3 A Well, the New York Times article was publicly 4 available. I wouldn't say the letter was publicly :.0:10 5 available, although it would have been freely 6 available, if anybody asked Dr. Selikoff for a copy 7 of it, he would probably have been happy to provide 8 it. 9 Q He would -- he could -- if you went to Mount Sinai, :.0:10 10 you could ask for it from Mount Sinai and they 11 would provide it. 12 A I believe so. :.0 :10 13 Q The health records and the interviews of the :.0 :10 14 insulators that he was doing, would that be 15 something that would be protected by HIPAA today? 16 A Well, it would be regarded as medical :.0 :10 17 confidentiality between a patient and a doctor. 18 Q Okay. I want to ask you about something Mr. Bicks :.0 :10 19 didn't show you in this Defense Exhibit 8846. And 20 this is a quote from Dr. Selikoff. Can you read 21 that, where it says, "Selikoff acknowledges"? 22 A "Selikoff acknowledged." :.0:11 23 Q "Selikoff acknowledged that the cosmetic industry 24 has 'gone ahead quietly improved the talc" -- it's :.0:11 25 got direct quotes around gone ahead quietly and Page 704 1 improved the talc -- "but there's a huge chink in 2 their armor. They were dusting people with 3 asbestos all these years before, so what was put in 4 the lungs before is still there. 'I certainly 5 wouldn't want to be dusted with any asbestos. 6 There is no safe level of asbestos known.'" 7 That's what Selikoff was quoted in the New 8 York -- in this article about? 10:11 9 A Yeah. 10:11 10 Q And when he writes to the author of the article, he 11 doesn't -- he doesn't say that she misquoted him 10:11 12 about people being dusted with asbestos or that 13 there was a safe level of asbestos exposure, did 14 he? 15 A No, I don't think so. 10:12 16 Q This press release, Exhibit 7119, this is a 10:12 17 publicly available press release put out by Mount 18 Sinai; right? 19 A Yes. 10:12 20 Q All right. This press release came out March 23, 10:12 21 1976; right? 22 A Yes. 10:12 23 Q From the president of Mount Sinai? 10:12 24 A That's right. 10:12 25 Q The document that I showed you yesterday, 10:12 Page 705 1 Exhibit 578, that is not publicly available, was 2 not publicly available till very recently; is that 3 correct? 4 A Yes, that's correct. : 5 Q Let's just -- what's going on here is there's a : 6 meeting with the president of Mount Sinai, the 7 director of the medical school, and the director of 8 personal relations from Mount Sinai, and then 9 Johnson & Johnson was represented by D.D. Johnson, 10 J.E. Burke, D. Petterson, L. Foster, and G. 11 Hildick-Smith. So five Johnson & Johnson 12 executives came to meet with Mount Sinai; right? 13 A Yes. : 14 Q "Initially Dr. Chalmers, who had clearly given a : 15 lot of thought to the issue, suggested it might be 16 wisest if all parties forgot the incident ... 17 nothing would be gained by obtaining a retraction 18 from Mount Sinai Medical School. Johnson & Johnson 19 representatives, however, clearly expressed their 20 desire to have a retraction statement to not only 21 allay the fears of many anxious parents, but to 22 correct the record concerning the safety of baby 23 talc and the fact that Mount Sinai scientists had 24 failed to report the talc samples studied were at 25 least three years old. Page 706 1 "The Mount Sinai group indicated that over the 2 weekend, the Selikoff group," and that's -- 3 Selikoff group is referring to these people here; 4 right? 5 A Right. 6 Q "The Selikoff group had been studying six new 7 samples of talc and reported that all of them 8 contained minimal amounts of asbestos. Mount Sinai 9 management thought that this information should be 10 in the retraction statement, but the Johnson & 11 Johnson group assured the Mount Sinai management 12 that such a statement should be avoided in case the 13 analysis by the Selikoff group was in error. 14 "A discussion took place concerning the 15 content of a retraction statement, and agreement 16 was reached on the content of such a statement. 17 Dr. Chalmers indicated that he would write a 18 covering note for the statement and it would be 19 released to the news media. The Mount Sinai 20 management reluctantly agreed to release a 21 statement to correct the record on talc published 22 in the news media. The meeting was an amicable 23 one." 24 This meeting happened on March 31 -- actually, 25 the memo was March 31, '76. The meeting was Page 707 1 Monday, March 22, 1976? 2 A That's what it says. 10:15 3 Q And the press release came out the next day? 10:15 4 A I think so. 10:15 5 Q March 23, 1976? 10:15 6 A Yeah. 10:15 7 Q Let me show you one more document from the files of 10:15 8 Johnson & Johnson. 9 MR. FINCH: This is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 52, 10 Your Honor. I believe it's stipulated to be 11 admissible. I'd offer 52. 12 THE COURT: And it's been stipulated to, you 10:15 13 said? 14 MR. FINCH: Yes. 10:15 15 THE COURT: It says 47 here. 10:15 16 MR. FINCH: No, that was a deposition exhibit 10:16 17 number. The top is P-52, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: All right, thank you. 10:16 19 MR. BICKS: Well, I don't have any objection 10:16 20 to the admissibility of it, but I have objection as 21 being relevant and this witness competent to talk 22 about it. 23 THE COURT: All right. The Court shows 52 10:16 24 admitted without objection, and now we'll deal with 25 the objection. But there's no -- you mean as to Page 708 1 the entire document? 2 MR. BICKS: Right. Well, let's see what ... 3 maybe there's foundation that he has -- knows 4 anything about this. 5 BY MR. FINCH: 6 Q Dr. Castleman, have you seen this document before? 7 It was in your talc file. Have you seen this 8 before? 9 A I think so, yeah. 10 Q And this is an internal document of Johnson & 11 Johnson, this wasn't publicly -- in the publicly 12 available pile, is it? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q This is June 17, 1972. "I asked Dr. Langer if he 15 can state that our baby powder," referring to 16 Johnson's baby powder, "is free of asbestos as a 17 result of the conference and review of August 3, 18 1971, with the FDA. He said he still thinks that 19 Johnson & Johnson's product contains minute traces 20 of asbestos, and he believes that he can find 21 asbestos fibers after breaking down the platelets 22 by ultrasonic energy." 23 Did I read that right? 24 A You did. 25 Q Was this document sent to you when you were writing Page 709 1 to Johnson & Johnson in the early 1970s? 2 A No. 3 Q Was it publicly available until very recently? 4 A No. 5 Q Dr. Castleman, have you in your book been able to 6 identify every entity that's ever exposed anybody 7 to asbestos ever in the history of world? 8 A No. 9 Q As someone who has spent his career as a public 10 health advocate, advocating for -- or testifying in 11 cases or in dealing with the public health 12 community, is it important to warn people about the 13 hazards of asbestos? 14 A Very important. 15 Q Do you wish you had had all of Johnson & Johnson's 16 internal files back in the 1970s? 17 A Yes. 18 Q You believe you might have done things differently 19 if you had? 20 MR. BICKS: Objection, speculation. 21 THE COURT: I'll overrule that objection. 22 A Yes is the answer. 23 MR. FINCH: No more questions, Your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Thank you. 25 MR. FINCH: May this witness be excused? Page 710 1 MR. BICKS: Can I ask a few follow-up, Your 2 Honor? 3 MR. FINCH: I didn't know that there was 4 re-recross. 5 MR. BICKS: He went outside the scope of what 6 I did. I have a few questions. 7 THE COURT: You can question as to the new 8 matters, briefly. 9 MR. BICKS: Can I do it from here? 10 THE COURT: Yes. 11 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 12 BY MR. BICKS: 13 Q Doctor, you were shown in Lancet a reference to the 14 New York Gouverneur deposit. Do you remember that? 15 Kleinfeld? 16 A I remember being shown the Lancet editorial. 17 Q Right, and the New York Gouverneur deposit; right? 18 A Well, the New York deposit is mentioned in The 19 Lancet. 20 Q Right. And counsel pointed you to that reference 21 to the Gouverneur deposit. Do you remember that? 22 A Yes. 23 Q You know that Johnson & Johnson didn't use that 24 deposit; right? 25 A As far as I know, that's correct. Page 711 1 Q When Johnson & Johnson wrote to you and told you 2 about Colorado School of Mines, Fred Pooley, and 3 all their reports, did you ever write back and say, 4 can I please see those reports? 5 A No. I took them at their word that the reports 6 were negative. 7 Q Sir, please answer my question. Did you ever say, 8 can I please see the reports? 9 A No. 10 Q Did you ever pick up the phone and send a letter to 11 Fred Pooley, hey, Dr. Pooley, I'd like to see your 12 testing, did you ever do that? 13 A No. 14 Q How about Colorado School of Mines, did you ever 15 reach out and say, hey, I'm a public health person, 16 I'm worried about that, can I see the reports? 17 A No. 18 Q In fact, when you were talking to this jury on 19 direct and talking about all your trips around the 20 world, talking to people, have you ever said to one 21 of those people, world health organizations, the 22 meetings, the World Bank, everybody, have you ever 23 come out in public and said to them, you should 24 take cosmetic talc off the market? 25 A No. Page 712 1 MR. BICKS: Thank you. 10:20 2 THE COURT: And Mr. Finch? 10:20 3 MR. FINCH: Nothing more, Your Honor. Unless 10:20 4 the jury has any questions. 5 THE COURT: And does the -- do the jurors have 10:20 6 any questions for this witness before he is 7 excused? And if so, you should write it down on a 8 piece of paper. Does anybody have one before I 9 call Bridget in? No? 10 All right, then. Thank you. Sir, you are 10:20 11 excused. 12 We're going to take a break now. We'll come 10:21 13 back at 20 till the hour, so that'll be 20 till 11. 14 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 10:21 15 (Whereupon, the jury exited the courtroom.) 10:21 16 THE COURT: Are there any matters that we need 10:22 17 to discuss? No? 18 MR. FINCH: Not yet. 10:22 19 (A brief recess was taken.) 10:22 20 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 11:02 21 (Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.) 11:02 22 THE COURT: Please be seated. Welcome back. 11:02 23 Thanks for your patience while Counsel and the 24 Court discussed scheduling going forward. 25 And now we are ready to begin on a new 11:02 Page 713 1 witness. 2 MR. FINCH: May we proceed, Your Honor? 3 THE COURT: Yes. 4 MR. FINCH: May it please the Court. Good 5 morning, ladies and gentlemen, Counsel. We call 6 Dr. Mark Rigler. 7 THE COURT: Welcome, Dr. Rigler. 8 THE WITNESS : Thank you, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Could you please raise your right 10 hand. 11 MARK RIGLER, PH.D., 12 a witness called on behalf of the Plaintiffs, having 13 been first duly sworn by the Court, took the stand and 14 testified as follows: 15 THE COURT: Thank you. You may be seated. 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. FINCH: 18 Q Dr. Rigler, could you introduce yourself to the 19 jury and tell them where you're from. 20 A I'm Dr. Mark Rigler, and I am from Atlanta, 21 Georgia. 22 Q What is your profession, sir? 23 A I'm a consultant, and I work for my own company 24 called ASPEX, LLC. Previously I worked for a 25 testing laboratory called Materials Analytical Page 714 1 Services, MAS, located also in the suburbs of 2 Atlanta, Georgia. 3 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, we have previously 4 marked and it's going to be marked as Plaintiffs' 5 Exhibit No. 3, a copy of Dr. Rigler's curriculum 6 vitae. May I approach? We haven't put the exhibit 7 number on it yet, but can I approach, Your Honor? 8 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 9 MR. FINCH: Counsel has been provided a copy 10 as well. This is going to be Plaintiffs' 3. 11 BY MR. FINCH: 12 Q Dr. Rigler, this is your CV? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Do you have it on the monitor in front of you? Can 15 you see it there? 16 A Yes, I do. 17 Q Could you briefly go through your educational 18 background. 19 A I have a Bachelor of Science degree in biology from 20 Villanova University. I also have a Ph.D. in 21 microbiology from the University of Georgia. And 22 I've also done post-doctoral work on the same kinds 23 of subject matter at the University of Georgia for 24 my post-doctoral work. 25 Q Could you describe for the jury what formal Page 715 1 training you have had in using electron microscopes 2 to analyze substances to determine if there is 3 asbestos or other materials in them? 4 A Sure. The training that I have was at the 5 University of Georgia. There were two semesters of 6 electron microscopy. They specifically have a unit 7 for training for electron microscopy at the 8 university. I believe it's called the Center for 9 Ultrastructural Research now, and at that center 10 they have the -- a number of different kinds of 11 electron microscopes. They have transmission 12 electron microscopes. They have scanning electron 13 microscopes. And you learn to use those tools to 14 analyze all kinds of materials, from biological 15 materials to solid hard materials, particles, that 16 type of thing. 17 Q Could you give us a rundown of your employment 18 history, starting with your first job after 19 graduate school and then running up through the 20 present. 21 A Well, I was a research technician at the University 22 of Georgia and specifically doing ultrastructural 23 research using transmission electron microscopy. 24 It was in the plant pathology department, and we 25 were embedding and cutting different types of grass Page 716 1 tissues, seed grasses. The investigators were 2 trying to understand some processes with those 3 cells at the ultrastructural level. 4 Then I was director for a company called SCRS. 5 That was also a consulting company that I started, 6 and I did some consulting work for a couple of very 7 large firms. One was Genentech in south San 8 Francisco, California, a company that develops 9 drugs of all different kinds. They have very 10 interesting technologies. 11 Then I was a senior application specialist at 12 a company called RMC. They were a manufacturer of 13 tools for electron microscopy. So I was a field 14 specialist doing different kinds of work in 15 relationship to that company marketing their 16 products. I was a specialist for them. 17 Then - 18 Q I'm going to stop you right there, Doctor. That'll 19 bring us up to about 1989. 20 A Okay. 21 Q Where did you go next? 22 A I was hired at Materials Analytical Services, 23 that's MAS. That is the laboratory that I worked 24 at for a little more than 30 years. So I was the 25 director of biological services when I first Page 717 1 started at that company. I became branch manager 2 and director of still biological services. Then I 3 was the VP and director of biological services, 4 continued there, then VP and materials group 5 manager at the time. Then -- let's see, what else 6 do we have here? Oh, senior consulting scientist, 7 yes, at the same company for microbiologicals, an 8 area that I specialize in. And then I managed the 9 laboratory for a number of years. That was about 10 four years. And then I became chief science 11 officer at the laboratory at the end of my career 12 there. 13 Q Was one of the main business activities of MAS to 14 test materials and human tissue to determine 15 whether there was asbestos in it? 16 A Yes, yes, that was one of the areas of 17 specialization for that company, and I headed those 18 efforts. 19 Q How many tests of materials, building materials or 20 other kinds of products, were you personally 21 involved in to determine it they had asbestos in 22 them while you were at MAS? 23 A Well, there were hundreds of different types of 24 products that the company tested for containing 25 asbestos. Page 718 1 Q Were you involved in many of those tests 2 personally? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Did you actually use the electron microscopes 5 personally in some of the testing for asbestos 6 materials and products? 7 A Yes, I did. The transmission electron microscope, 8 also the scanning electron microscopes. 9 Q Did the lab MAS have trained microscopists that 10 reported to you and the lab's owner that were 11 trained to use the microscopes to analyze materials 12 for the presence of asbestos? 13 A Yes, they did. That was part of my job 14 responsibilities were to oversee the microscopists. 15 As the laboratory manager, that's one of your jobs, 16 yes. 17 Q And you were at MAS up through July of this year? 18 A Yes, sir, I was. 19 Q Why did you decide to leave? 20 A I wanted to spend more time with my family. I have 21 a new granddaughter, and my time was becoming very 22 valuable at that point. So I -- that was one of 23 the reasons that I retired from MAS. 24 Q How old are you, sir? 25 A I will be 65 in January. Page 719 1 Q You look young for your age. How long was your 2 commute to and from the lab at MAS? '.1 :10 3 A On any given day, I don't know if any of you all :.l:11 4 know Atlanta traffic, it is a challenge. So just a 5 one-way ride could be an hour 20 minutes, something 6 like that. So my round trip times were easily two 7 and a half hours, sometimes three hours if there 8 were accidents. I went through at least four 9 school zones, so that slows you down quite a bit. 10 Q Now, the jury has heard a little bit about the peer :.l:11 11 review process as it relates to other experts. Do 12 you have any peer-reviewed publications in the 13 scientific literature, Dr. Rigler? 14 A Yes. :.l:11 15 Q How many peer-reviewed publications do you have in :.l:11 16 total? 17 A I apologize, but I haven't counted them. They're :.l:11 18 on the CV. 19 Q Does it continue on for, like, a page and a half, :.l:11 20 maybe 15 or 20 peer-reviewed publications? 21 A Yes, and there are also presentations that are on :.l:11 22 there, scientific presentations that I've given. 23 Q Have you published in the peer-reviewed scientific :.l:12 24 literature any articles addressing how to test for 25 asbestos in some kind of product or material and Page 720 1 what the asbestos concentration would be? 2 A Yes, yes. I published a paper in 1995 on the 3 asbestos content of Kent original micronite 4 filtered cigarettes. I don't know if any of you 5 ever heard about them, but they were a blue filter 6 very specific color, and the company touted them as 7 the safest cigarettes which you could smoke. 8 So we looked at those cigarette filters at 9 MAS, analyzed them, and came to find out that they 10 contained approximately 10 percent crocidolite 11 asbestos by weight. So that was a -- we did a 12 study where we -- we took cigarettes and we 13 squeezed them and we rolled them and then we didn't 14 do anything to them and we loaded them up into a 15 container that we would draw air through, as if, 16 you know, you were breathing through that, to see 17 what would be in the first couple of puffs, would 18 there be any crocidolite asbestos in the first 19 couple of puffs. And we found there were millions, 20 hundreds of millions of fibers in that first couple 21 of puffs. 22 And so we took that finding to a journal 23 called Cancer, it's a published peer-review 24 journal, and they did a rapid publication of that 25 work. Page 721 1 Q Is this a copy -- I'm not going to put it into 2 evidence, but is this a copy of the article that 3 describes the work and the methodology for 4 detecting asbestos in this product? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Just so the record is clear, Kent made this 7 asbestos-containing cigarette filter between 1952 8 and 1954? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And Melody Lewis would have been, like, five or six 11 years old at that time? She was born in - 12 A I believe so, yes. 13 Q -- '48. There's no evidence at all in the case 14 that she ever smoked a Kent cigarette with an 15 asbestos filter? 16 A Not that I know of, no. 17 Q So back to -- back to your qualifications, at MAS, 18 was it a regular practice for you and other 19 scientists to rely on - 20 MR. FINCH: Can I have the PowerPoint, Jon. 21 Sorry. 22 Q -- trained microscopists to review products or 23 substances or materials to determine if they 24 contained asbestos? 25 A Yes. Page 722 1 Q And is that an accepted practice for scientists and 2 researchers in the field, to rely on lab 3 technicians and other people to help them identify 4 asbestos in products or materials? 5 A Yes. In the scientific world, technologists are 6 routinely relied upon for results from testing. 7 Q While you were at MAS, how many different asbestos 8 products were tested over the years? 9 A Oh, I don't know. It had to be hundreds, hundreds 10 of products that were tested for asbestos. There 11 were many, many, many products asbestos were in. 12 This slide is showing a number of companies that 13 MAS consulted for, and not necessarily all of them 14 were for testing asbestos. BMW that you see on 15 there was BMW Motors. 16 Q That wasn't the BMW Constructors that's at issue in 17 this case, is it? 18 A Right. 19 Q What kind of quality control programs did MAS have 20 to analyze, stay up to date with the procedures it 21 was using, that you and the scientists were using 22 to test materials or products? 23 A The quality programs for all laboratories, all 24 certified laboratories have quality programs 25 whereby they have specific steps and routines and Page 723 1 procedures that they have to follow in order to get 2 reproducible data. 3 For instance, when you go to the doctor and 4 you get a lab test done by LabCorp or some of them, 5 they have programs that are very stringent. In the 6 asbestos testing realm, for most laboratories, they 7 have what's called an ISO 17025 designation that 8 you see on the screen there. I know there are a 9 lot of certifications on there. We'll just talk 10 about them briefly. 11 Q ISO standards for what, sir? 12 A International Standards Organization. 13 Q Okay. 14 A And they are a -- they're a group of scientists 15 that come up with standard methods and 16 methodologies that everyone follows so that 17 everyone is doing the same kinds of things so the 18 results are comparable across laboratories. 19 So you see some other designations on here. 20 AIHA, that's American Industrial Hygiene 21 Association. The A2LA you see on there, that's 22 American Association for Laboratory Accreditation. 23 There's also ASTM, American Standards for Testing 24 Materials, NVLAP and on. And each one of these has 25 a basis in 17025. Page 724 1 MAS was also an FDA registered laboratory. 2 But the point here is that MAS followed a very 3 stringent quality control program. 4 Q There's a reference there to something called the 5 AIHA. What is the American Industrial Hygiene 6 Association? 7 A Again, it's a group of scientists who have 8 developed standards for the analysis and testing of 9 environmental samples and materials, and they also 10 provide a certification service for laboratories. 11 MAS, that laboratory had -- the laboratory number 12 was 100655. Each one of the laboratories has a 13 designation. That means they've gone through a 14 program whereby auditors from the AIHA, independent 15 third-party auditors come out and they go through 16 all of the laboratory's systems and they check them 17 for compliance to their program. And if they 18 comply, and they do this every two years, then the 19 AIHA will give them a certification. 20 Q Could you describe for the jury what training you 21 have had in industrial hygiene principles as it 22 relates to asbestos. 23 A At MAS, there were industrial hygienists, in fact, 24 I believe there still are, who are on staff. Now, 25 these are people who essentially do -- they do Page 725 1 safety training for the laboratory there. One of 2 their major jobs is workplace safety and health. 3 And so what they do is they follow standards : 4 for checking to be sure that workplaces are safe 5 and healthy for all different kinds of things, 6 whether it be hazards for slip and fall, whether it 7 be air standards for the amount of particles in the 8 air, dust, that type of thing. And what they do is 9 they go around and they'll test for things. You've 10 heard of standards for audiology, too much noise, 11 too much sound. An industrial hygienist will go 12 out with an audiometer, a meter that would measure 13 that. So they would go to a rock concert, they 14 could tell you, you're way off the scale here for 15 acceptable workplace noise. 16 But in our case, I have been -- worked : 17 alongside of and trained and also overseen 18 industrial hygienists at MAS who did testing on air 19 samples and other kinds of samples that contained 20 asbestos. 21 MR. FINCH: Can I have the ELMO again, Jon. : 22 Q And Dr. Rigler, in your CV, it has a list of : 23 memberships. Have you personally been a member of 24 the American Industrial Hygiene Association and the 25 American Conference of Government Industrial Page 726 1 Hygienists, ACGIH? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Now, it says it's updating here. 4 mean? What does that 11:21 11:21 5 A When I left MAS, I was a member of each one of 6 these different organizations, and so with my new 11:21 7 company, ASPEX, I have to get my address changed, I 8 have to get updated information to them, I have to 9 reapply for my memberships, that kind of thing. So 10 that's why it says updating. I'm about halfway 11 through the list right now. So that's what's going 12 on with all of that. 13 Q And you're in the process of doing the paperwork to 14 get recertified by things like the Microscopy 11:21 15 Society of America, the American Society for 16 Microbiology, the American College of Occupational 17 and Environmental Medicine? 18 A Yes, sir. 11:22 19 Q This paper that you worked on about asbestos in 11:22 20 cigarette smoke from the Kent filters published in 21 the Journal of Cancer, is that right, cancer 22 research? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And that was, what, 25 years ago? 25 A 1995. 11:22 11:22 11:22 Page 727 1 Q There's a gentleman also, a co-author of yours, :.l :22 2 William Longo. Was he the owner of MAS? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q And the two of you are friends? :.l :22 :.l :22 5 A Yes, yes. :.l :22 6 Q Now, in addition to the - :.l :22 7 MR. FINCH: Can I go back to the PowerPoint, :.l :22 8 Jon. Eventually I'll catch on. 9 Q In addition to the AIHA, there's something called :.l :22 10 the NIST on this slide. 11 A Yes. :.l :22 12 Q Could you explain to the jury, what is the NIST and :.l :22 13 how does it relate to testing materials for the 14 presence of asbestos? 15 A The NIST is the National Institute of Standards and :.l :23 16 Technology in Washington, D.C., and they oversee 17 the program called the NVLAP, you'll see it there 18 on the slide, National Voluntary Laboratory 19 Accreditation Program. And that's for TEM 20 laboratories. They specifically have a program for 21 asbestos testing laboratories that do electron 22 microscopy, TEM, and also optical microscopy, which 23 we'll probably talk about later. 24 So what they do is they oversee these :.l :23 25 programs. They have auditors that go out to the Page 728 1 laboratories, and they assess the laboratories for 2 conformance to the standards. 3 Q What is an official referee lab for an asbestos :.l :23 4 remediation project? 5 A The referee laboratory is one that can oversee :.l :23 6 sampling for projects like you see that are listed 7 here. MAS, that laboratory was involved in all of 8 the projects that you see here, all these different 9 states and authorities that were testing for 10 asbestos in their products and many of the 11 buildings in their states. 12 So MAS was a laboratory that did testing for :.l :24 13 these programs that you see here, from City of New 14 York, Port Authority of New Jersey, State of 15 Hawaii, Archdiocese of St. Louis, City of Boston, 16 Baltimore, on and on. So MAS was very much 17 involved in all of those programs for many, many 18 years. 19 Q And am I correct that there are basically two :.l :24 20 different kinds of -- two big categories of tests 21 you're going to talk about here? One is something 22 called a bulk materials test? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Explain to the jury what that is. 25 A A bulk material test is one whereby you're looking 11:2 5 11:2 5 11:2 5 Page 729 1 at a material that contains asbestos. Say that it 2 is some kind of an insulation product and it has 3 asbestos in it. You want to know what the 4 percentage of asbestos is. So that insulation is 5 considered a bulk sample. It could be drywall, it 6 could be mastic tape, it could be baby powder, it 7 could be, you know -- it could be anything that's 8 considered a bulk sample. 9 Q Was the crocidolite asbestos filter -- well, the 1:2 5 10 jury can see it from here. The filter test, is 11 that an example of a bulk analysis? 12 A Yes, yes. 13 Q When -- were you personally involved in many of 14 these assignments involving being the referee lab 11:2 5 11:2 5 15 for asbestos remediation projects while you were at 16 MAS? 17 A Yes, yes. 11:2 6 18 Q Would that typically involve a bulk sample analysis 11:26 19 to determine, you know, how much asbestos was in 20 some building or how much asbestos was in some 21 place or some school? 22 A Yes, sir. 11:2 6 23 Q Now, is there a second type of test that you're 24 going to talk about today called an asbestos fiber 11:2 6 25 release test? Page 730 1 A Yes. 1:2 6 2 Q Can you explain to the jury what that is. 1:2 6 3 A That is a test whereby an asbestos-bearing material 1:26 4 is assessed for how much asbestos can be released 5 from it. For instance, if you have a cement pipe 6 that contains asbestos, a lot of cement pipe did in 7 the past, and you cut into it and you're working 8 around it and you cut into it and create all of 9 that dust, then you can have a release and 10 exposure. So that can be one type of thing. 11 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, we would ask the Court '..1:21 12 to recognize Dr. Rigler as an expert in material 13 science for the purpose of doing bulk testing to 14 determine if there is asbestos in a product or 15 material and for fiber release related to asbestos 16 fiber release from a fiber -- from a product or 17 material. 18 THE COURT: Well - 11:21 19 MR. FINCH: Any objection? 11:21 20 MR. BICKS: You've heard our -- we've argued 11:21 21 this so our position is preserved, I assume. 22 MR. FINCH: We agree that the prior 11:21 23 arguments - 24 THE COURT: But you're objecting now? 11:21 25 MR. BICKS: Yes, Your Honor. 11:21 Page 731 1 THE COURT: And the Court rules consistent LI :27 2 with its prior order. 3 MR. FINCH: Thank you, Your Honor. 4 BY MR. FINCH: 5 Q Dr. Rigler, did we basically ask you to do three 6 things in this case? LI :27 LI :27 LI :27 7 A Yes. 11:2 8 8 Q And first, did we ask you to test Johnson's baby 11:2 8 9 powder containers from different periods of time to 10 determine whether they had asbestos in them? 11 A Yes. 11:2 8 12 Q Did, in fact, a majority of the containers have 11:2 8 13 asbestos in them? 14 A Yes. 11:2 8 15 Q Did we also ask you to come and explain the various 11:28 16 testing methodologies that both you used and other 17 companies might use that were available over time 18 and to explain what a nondetect means and why there 19 might be nondetects in historical tests? 20 A Yes. 11:2 8 21 Q And finally, did we ask you to explain to this jury 11:28 22 what were Melody Lewis' exposures to asbestos from 23 Johnson's baby powder and how those exposures 24 compared to background ambient air? 25 A Yes. 11:2 8 Page 732 1 Q Just bottom line, what is your opinion about how 11:28 2 her asbestos exposures from baby powder compared to 3 ambient air? 4 A Her exposure compared to ambient air was magnitudes 11: 2 8 5 higher than ambient air. 6 Q First, her exposure to asbestos from baby powder 11:29 7 was orders of magnitude higher than ambient air? 8 A Yes. 11:29 9 Q And what does an order of magnitude mean in 11:29 10 science? 11 A An order of magnitude is a thousand times, so 11:29 12 multiple orders of magnitude can be 2,000, 3,000, 13 10,000. 14 Q Now, we have on this slide a picture of some of the 1 1 : 2 9 15 different scientific instruments that the jury has 16 already heard a little bit about and will probably 17 hear a lot about in this case. Can you explain to 18 the jury what each of these things are. 19 A Sure. 11:29 20 Q And why don't we do that first, then we'll go 11:29 21 through some of how they're used. 22 A Okay. XRD, or x-ray diffraction, is a tool whereby 1 1 : 2 9 23 you take a bulk, a solid sample, or you can take a 24 powdered sample and then you compress it. And then 25 what you do is you put x-ray energy through it, and Page 733 1 then it's tilted through the x-ray energy beam, and 2 then there's a detector that tells you how much for 3 a type-specific mineral that could be in there. So 4 that's an x-ray diffractometer. The level of 5 detection can be, you know, about .11 percent, 6 something like that. It sounds pretty low, but as 7 far as trace detection with an x-ray diffraction 8 detector, not so great. 9 The PLM that you see there, as you can see, 11:30 10 it's a microscope. It's called a polarizing light 11 microscope, and that is used also for asbestos 12 analysis and identifying asbestos. 13 There are also the TEM, the transmission 11:30 14 electron microscope, as you see there. It looks 15 small here on the screen, but it would take easily 16 the space that I'm sitting here or where the judge 17 is sitting. That's how large they are. So that's 18 your transmission electron microscope. And it's 19 used -- it is the tool actually for analyzing small 20 particles, such as asbestos fibers. 21 Q You used a term in your answer just now called 11:31 22 sensitivity, the level of detection. 23 A Yes. 11:31 24 Q Could you explain what that means. 11:31 25 A Sensitivity is the instrument's level or the 11:31 Page 734 1 preparation's level of being able to detect how 2 much is in something. The smaller the amount or 3 the trace level amount, the more either that you 4 need to analyze or the more area you need to look 5 at. 6 So just to give you an idea of sensitivity - 1:31 7 well, it's always difficult to give the examples, 8 but let it be known that the transmission electron 9 microscope would be the most sensitive for trying 10 to find very, very low levels of asbestos in 11 materials such as powders. 12 Q You got a degree in microbiology and you got your :.l :32 13 undergraduate degree in biology? 14 A Yes. :.l :32 15 Q I haven't had biology since I was in high school. :.l :32 16 I'm not going to say how long ago that was. But I 17 remember looking through microscopes to look for 18 microbes. 19 A Yes. :.l :32 20 Q If I wanted to find a microscopic virus or bacteria :.l :32 21 on my hand, could I see them with a magnifying 22 glass? 23 A No, not unless they were in big colonies. :.l :32 24 Q Could -- if I wanted to look for something that is :.l :32 25 as small as an asbestos fiber, could I see it with Page 735 1 a magnifying glass? 2 A No. 3 Q Am I correct, then, that the greater the level of 4 sensitivity, the more likely it is that you can 5 detect something that's there? 6 A Yes, yes. 7 Q If I were using a hand magnifying glass looking for 8 a single microbe on my hand, would I be able to see 9 it? 10 A No, sir. 11 Q If I did that test 10,000 times in a row, would I 12 ever be able to see any microbes on my hand? 13 A No, sir. 14 Q Now, the jury has already heard from a scientist 15 about the various types of asbestos, from a 16 pathologist. Could you explain from the material 17 science perspective, what is asbestos? 18 A Asbestos is a hydrated magnesium silicate, which 19 is -- kind of in terms of what you may know, it's 20 very much like the clay that's in the soil out 21 there. One form -- one type of it is similar to 22 what's -- clay minerals. It's in that category 23 called serpentines. The asbestos that is the 24 important type there is an asbestos called 25 chrysotile. You see it up in the upper right-hand Page 736 1 corner there in the green. That's what's called a 2 serpentine mineral. And the reason it's called 3 that is because it has a sheet like or a flat 4 structure. This -- chrysotile is actually rolled 5 up in a tube, so it's very much like a soda straw. 6 The other types of asbestos that you see there :.l :34 7 are called amphiboles, and they have a structure 8 very much like railroad tracks that lay up on top 9 of each other. So they're very -- they're also 10 layered and they come in layered fibrils. So 11 they're classed anthophyllite, 12 actinolite/tremolite, crocidolite, and amosite. 13 They're all in those -- what was called the 14 amphibole mineral class. 15 Q And can some of the asbestos varieties be 16 contaminant with other materials? 17 A Absolutely. 18 Q Which types of asbestos are often found as 19 contaminants of talc? 20 A It depends upon the mineralogical formations, but 21 it can be tremolite and actinolite, it also can be 11:3 5 11:3 5 11:3 5 11:3 5 22 anthophyllite, and it can also be chrysotile. 23 Q Can asbestos -- I assume that when you're working 24 with asbestos in your lab, there are industrial 11:3 5 25 hygiene precautions that people take? Page 737 1 A Yes, we work within a safety hood. 2 Q But can you smell asbestos or see asbestos under 3 the naked eye? 11:3 6 11:3 6 4 A No. 11:3 6 5 Q How long does asbestos persist in the environment 11:3 6 6 if it's there? 7 A Well, it essentially can exist forever. It's sort 11:3 6 8 of an unbelievably durable material that does not 9 degrade very easily. It takes very, very high heat 10 to degrade it and not very much else. 11 Q How big or how small is an asbestos fiber? 11:3 6 12 A This is a good demonstration. It shows a penny. 11:3 6 13 There are rice grains there on the left-hand side. 14 That's rice. There are human hairs around the 1996 15 stamp that you can see there. And then at Abe 16 Lincoln's beard, you can see what appear to be 17 asbestos fibers. These are little, tiny white dots 18 that you see there. And that's actually a pile of 19 asbestos fibers. The estimate there is 20,000 20 fibers, but you can see how small it is. 21 Q Can asbestos fibers be seen with the naked eye even 11:3 7 22 if you're exposed to a huge quantity? 23 A If they are that small, no. 24 Q Now, we talked -- we showed the jury pictures of 11:3 7 11:3 7 25 TEM and PLM. Page 738 1 A Yes. 1:3 7 2 Q How do you use a transmission electron microscope 1:3 7 3 to test for asbestos in a material? 4 A Well, the beautiful thing about the electron ? 1:3 7 5 microscope is it's three tools in one. You can 6 do -- you can look at the structure of the asbestos 7 to see that it's a fiber. You can see that it's a 8 bundle or a group of them clustered together. So 9 that's one way you can tell what it is. You can 10 also measure its size and get what's called an 11 aspect ratio, its length and width, because that's 12 specific for asbestiform asbestos. 13 And No. 2, you can do the chemistry of those ? 1:3 8 14 fibers. The electron microscope has attached to it 15 an electron spectrometer which allows you to get a 16 chemical fingerprint of that asbestos. 17 And No. 3, it also allows you to do what's ? 1:3 8 18 called electron diffraction. As the electrons go 19 through the asbestos fiber, they break up very much 20 like light goes through a prism. You've seen light 21 break up in a prism and you get different colors. 22 The same thing with electrons when they go through 23 material. They'll break up and they'll make a 24 pattern that is a fingerprint for that material. 25 So it's a beautiful tool for that, three in one. Page 739 1 Q Is this a picture of one of the transmission 1:3 8 2 electron microscopes at the MAS lab that's used to 3 analyze materials to see if there's asbestos 4 present? 5 A Yes, yes, it is. 6 Q Now, back to another tool for analysis is something 7 called a scanning electron microscope. What is a 1:3 9 11:3 9 8 scanning electron microscope, and how, if at all, 9 is it used in analyzing materials for asbestos? 10 A The difference between the two, the transmission 11 electron microscope, the electrons go through the 11:3 9 12 specimen and then you see the image of it on a 13 plate inside a microscope. 14 The scanning electron microscope, the 11:3 9 15 principles are very much like you and I see here in 16 the courtroom. We see each other because light is 17 bouncing off of us and we can visualize each other. 18 With a scanning electron microscope, when the 19 electrons hit the specimen, they scatter off and 20 there are detectors, and then what you get is what 21 looks like a three-dimensional image. So with the 22 scanning electron microscope, you can see some 23 really super fine details, and we'll see some 24 images of those. 25 Q And finally, there's something called a polarized 11:4 0 Page 740 1 light microscope. Is that something that's used in 2 the laboratory to identify asbestos fibers in some 3 circumstances? 4 A Yes. That one is more of a bench size microscope, 5 very much like you guys probably used in high 6 school work. And what this does is, the 7 mineralogical material, whether it's powder or 8 fibers or whatever, are put in refractive liquids 9 which allows you to look at the different light 10 properties as light bends through the fibers or 11 whatever you're looking at because you can look at 12 it for other kinds of materials. 13 So when you put a polarizer on that, it 14 changes the light angles, that kind of thing. And 15 as you rotate it, asbestos, different types of 16 asbestos will have different kinds of color 17 characteristics, and you can identify them based on 18 those characteristics. 19 Q Of these three types of tools for analysis, which 20 is the most sensitive and specific when it's -- for 21 purposes of identifying asbestos in either some 22 kind of material or if you're going into a building 23 or a school for asbestos remediation? 24 A That would be the transmission electron microscope, 25 yes. Page 741 1 Q Why is that? 11:41 2 A Well, for the three reasons that I talked about 11:41 3 before. You can do the chemistry, you can do the 4 form and the shape, and you can do the 5 crystallinity, the electron diffraction. The 6 scanning electron microscope is very good, but you 7 can't do the diffraction work. You can do the 8 chemistry and you can do the morphology. So it 9 would be the transmission electron microscope. 10 Q How long has transmission electron microscope 11:42 11 technology been around? 12 A Oh, gosh. Probably since the 1930s, 1940s. 11:42 13 Scientists, physicists in different laboratories 14 around the world were working on electron physics, 15 if you will, and they came up with the idea that 16 very much like what happens in a light microscope, 17 you use light rays to bend around or to go through 18 something. What if we could use electrons to do 19 that, because the wavelength of an electron is 20 much, much smaller than light, so that would mean 21 you could see many, many -- you could actually see 22 atoms. So with these electron microscopes, 23 especially the newer ones, you can actually see 24 atomic arrangements. 25 Q So what are we looking at here? 11:42 Page 742 1 A So this one is -- actually the only company in 2 America that made electron microscopes is RCA. I 3 don't know if any of you are old enough to remember 4 RCA Victor and televisions and all this. Well, 5 they made an electron microscope. This one was 6 vintage 1940s. It's called -- I think this is an 7 EMU2. There was an EMU1. But they -- a lot of 8 early research was done with this kind of 9 microscope. MAS actually has one, and I was 10 involved in a refurbishing project for this. We 11 cobbled a couple of microscopes together to make 12 this one. And it would work if you wired it up. 13 It would actually work. 14 So this is a very basic one, and chemical 15 companies actually in the '60s started using this 16 to check purity of their powder chemicals. So you 17 could look at the form of it. You could see the 18 image of it. You could also do electron 19 diffraction with these. There weren't electron 20 spectrometers at the time to do chemistry, but you 21 could definitely do diffraction. 22 Q Did you receive certain internal documents of 23 Johnson & Johnson that were obtained in discovery 24 that related to its -- the tools it used to test 25 its talc for asbestos and what kind of materials Page 743 1 and analyses it did? 2 A Yes. :.l : 44 3 MR. FINCH: This is a document, Plaintiffs' :.l : 44 4 Exhibit 181, from the files of Johnson & Johnson. 5 We would offer 181. I believe it's stipulated. 6 MR. BICKS: It's fine. Cl : 44 7 THE COURT: The Court shows Plaintiffs' :.l : 44 8 Exhibit 181 admitted without objection. 9 BY MR. FINCH: :.l : 44 10 Q This is a document from January 3, 1974. Johnson & :.l :45 11 Johnson writes, "Over the past three years, there 12 seems to have been general agreement that 13 transmission electron microscopy" -- I'm not going 14 to be able to say that word right. I'm just not 15 going to do it -- "is the only absolute proof with 16 electron diffraction for the identification of 17 asbestos in talc." 18 First of all, do you see that, Dr. Rigler? :.l :45 19 A Yes, sir. :.l :45 20 Q And you're familiar with this document? :.l :45 21 A Yes. :.l :45 22 Q Do you agree that transmission electron microscopy :.l :45 23 is the best method with electron diffraction for 24 the identification of asbestos in talc? 25 A Yes. :.l :45 Page 744 1 Q And it goes on to state, "We have elected to use :.l:45 2 outside laboratories since any results generated 3 in-house were suspect. In view of the latest 4 findings at Windsor Minerals, it appears wise that 5 we maintain a closer surveillance on both the ore 6 and finished product on an in-house basis." 7 And is using electron microscope a way to :.l : 45 8 analyze talc for the detection of asbestos fibers? 9 A Yes, sir. :.l :46 10 MR. FINCH: And could I have the ELMO, Jon. :.l :46 11 Q It says the approximate cost of a TEM plus :.l :46 12 accessories is $175,000, and this would be in 1974 13 dollars. Am I correct that a TEM is an expensive 14 piece of equipment to operate and maintain? 15 A Yes, sir, yes. :.l :46 16 Q Is it something that was available to Johnson & :.l :46 17 Johnson to purchase in 1974 or earlier, had it 18 wanted to? 19 A Yes, it was. :.l :47 20 Q What are we looking at here? Can you explain to :.l :47 21 the jury what we're seeing? 22 A What we're seeing are asbestos structures. These :.l :47 23 are very small particles of asbestos. They are 24 bundles and you can see some single fibers there. 25 The one all the way over on the right is called a Page 745 1 cluster. As we do asbestos analysis, we have to 2 characterize whether it's a fiber, a bundle, a 3 cluster, a matrix, or a combination. That's all 4 part of the identification rules that have to be 5 documented. 6 Q In the bottom -- well, this isn't going to work :.l : 47 7 either. But this is a bar here? Can you all see 8 that? 9 A Yes. :.l : 47 10 Q 0.5, and what does that little symbol mean there? :.l :47 11 A That's micrometers. And that -- just to give you :.l :48 12 an idea of perspective, that's about half the size 13 of a bacterium. Bacteriums are in the realm of 14 about 1 to 2 microns, micrometers. So you can fit 15 about half of a bacterium on that right there. So 16 that shows you how small they are. 17 Q Now, is there a preparation methodology that you :.l :48 18 followed in order to analyze talc for the presence 19 of asbestos? 20 A Yes. :.l :48 21 Q Could you describe what that preparation method is :.l :48 22 generally first, and then I'll have you explain why 23 you did that. 24 A All right. The preparation methodology is called :.l :48 25 heavy liquid separation, and what that is is a -- Page 746 1 it's based on separating talc and asbestos. The 2 density of talc is in the range of about 2.85 grams 3 per cc, I believe it is. So the density for the 4 amphibole asbestos -- if you'll remember, we've got 5 the group of amphiboles and we have the single 6 serpentine type -- is in the range of around 7 3 grams per cc. That's important because you're 8 going to put them in a liquid that has a density 9 that is different from them, which means they are 10 either going to float or they're going to go to the 11 bottom. 12 And the issue with talc is there is a lot of 11:49 13 it. If you're looking for trace levels of asbestos 14 in that, you've got to separate them, get them 15 separated. So this is why we do this. 16 Q Is there peer-reviewed scientific literature that 11:49 17 discusses the heavy liquid separation method? 18 A Yes, there are a couple of them, yes. 11:50 19 Q Are you familiar with this paper published by a 11:50 20 scientist named A.M. Blount in 1991 called 21 "Amphibole content of cosmetic and pharmaceutical 22 talcs"? 23 A Yes. 11:50 24 Q Does this paper lay out her methodology for 11:50 25 preparing the talc samples in order to analyze them Page 747 1 for the detection of asbestos content? 2 A Yes, sir. :. l : 50 3 Q She reports publicly in the paper what she finds :. l : 50 4 when she did that? 5 A Yes. :. l : 50 6 Q Does she -- in this publicly available paper, does :.l : 50 7 the paper state what the sources -- which sources 8 of talc were contaminated with asbestos? 9 A I'd have to look at the paper again, but I don't :. l : 50 10 believe it identifies them specifically. 11 Q It doesn't name the products, for example? :. l : 50 12 A I don't think so. :. l : 50 13 Q Now, is the heavy liquid separation method also :.l : 51 14 part of an International Standards Organization 15 method for detecting asbestos in materials? 16 A Yes. This is a standard method which takes that :.l : 51 17 procedure that we just talked about and outlines 18 exactly how to do that, very much like Dr. Blount's 19 protocol and procedure, and this is an 20 international standard that was used. 21 Q And I showed you the cover page. Let's make it a :.l : 51 22 little bigger and hopefully the jury and I can both 23 see it. It says the International Standards 24 Organization "is a worldwide federation of national 25 standards bodies (ISO member bodies)." Page 748 1 So ISO is the organization that put out this :.l:51 2 standard to do this; is that right? 3 A Yes, sir, yes. i l : 51 4 Q And the date, you all may not be able to see the :.l : 51 5 date. But can you read the date this was 6 published? 7 A 2014. : . l : 52 8 Q Is ISO 2226-2 the international standard that : . l : 52 9 specifies the procedure for analyzing talc for - 10 to determine if asbestos is in it? 11 A Yes. It describes procedures for separating : . l : 52 12 asbestos from a number of different kinds of 13 materials that you see there. Talc is highlighted. 14 So it's used specifically for that. 15 Q And another material is vermiculite. Do you see : . l : 52 16 that? 17 A Yes. : . l : 52 18 Q Was vermiculite insulation contaminated with : . l : 52 19 asbestos something that was used in the World Trade 20 Center? 21 A Yes. : . l : 52 22 Q Is this methodology recommended for detecting trace :.l : 52 23 or subtrace levels of asbestos in vermiculite as 24 well as talc? 25 A Yes, sir. :.l:52 Page 749 1 Q When I say trace or subtrace, does that necessarily :.l:52 2 mean that there could not be a high exposure to 3 asbestos from a product that has a trace or 4 subtrace level of asbestos in it? 5 A Right. Even though it says trace, you have to : . l : 53 6 remember that like the penny, where you saw the 7 20,000 fibers on that little tiny space, when you 8 say trace in a material, let's say it's trace 9 asbestos, .1 percent or something like that, when 10 it's thrown up in the air, when it gets airborne, 11 trace doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to 12 exposure. You can still be exposed to a 13 significant amount of it simply because there are 14 so many asbestos structures. 15 Q And does ISO International Standard 22262-2 talk i l : 53 16 specifically about using this methodology on 17 cosmetic talc to detect asbestos in it? 18 A Yes. You see here that it does. That's :. l : 54 19 specifically from the method, yes. 20 Q Let's go through the columns just so I can :. l : 54 21 understand what we're looking at here. So it's 22 talking about talc asbestos content depends on 23 deposits, and then it gives examples of materials 24 in which talc is found; is that right? 25 A Yes. :.l:54 Page 750 1 Q Including cosmetics? :. l : 54 2 A Yes. :. l : 54 3 Q And then what is the third column there? :. l : 54 4 A That talks about the kinds of asbestos that can be :.l : 54 5 separated with the technique. 6 Q And then it says, under -- "For amphibole, either :. l : 54 7 centrifugation in heavy liquid, followed by 8 evaluation by microscopy, or preparation of TEM 9 from the untreated material is the optimum 10 procedure, followed by examination using the mass 11 counting procedure." 12 What are we talking about there? :. l : 54 13 A It says that this -- that heavy liquid is the 11:5 5 14 optimal procedure for doing this, and then you use 15 the transmission electron microscope for also 16 examining the amount of material that's there. So 17 it says this is the best way to do it. 18 Q And why isn't this the optimal way to look for 11:5 5 19 chrysotile in talc or vermiculite? 20 A I'm glad you asked me that. I started to talk 11:5 5 21 about densities. Chrysotile has a density of 22 around 2 -- 2.8, somewhere in that range, and the 23 liquids that you use to do the separations, that 24 chrysotile is in that same sort of density range as 25 talc is. So it's very difficult to separate Page 751 1 chrysotile with this method. Don't get me wrong, 2 the scientists will keep on digging until we can 3 find how to get it done and get it separated. 4 But -- and it can be done with this methodology. 5 But chrysotile is a big challenge. It could 1:5 5 6 be there. You've done the method. You've found 7 the amphiboles types. Chrysotile is still there 8 because it's harder. You haven't separated it yet. 9 So that doesn't mean chrysotile is not there if you 10 run the procedure. 11 Q Now, Dr. Blount published in this peer-review 11:5 6 12 literature the heavy liquid concentration technique 13 in 1991, and this International Standards 14 Organization ISO 22262-2 was 2014. Have you seen 15 documents from the files of Johnson & Johnson that 16 showed that this type of methodology, this type of 17 preparation technique was being used by some of its 18 outside consultants in the '70s? 19 A Yes. 20 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, this is Exhibit P-358, 11:5 6 11:5 6 21 which I believe is stipulated admissible. 22 MR. BICKS: No objection. 11:5 6 23 THE COURT: The Court shows Plaintiffs' 24 Exhibit 358 admitted without objection. 11:5 6 25 BY MR. FINCH: 11:5 6 Page 752 1 Q So this is a document - 1:5 7 2 MR. FINCH: May I have the ELMO just for a 1:5 7 3 second, Jon. 4 Q This Plaintiffs' Exhibit 358 is a confidential 11:5 7 5 document dated March 1974 to Windsor Minerals, 6 Windsor, Vermont. 7 Do you understand that Windsor Minerals is the 11 :5 7 8 subsidiary that owned the talc mines owned by 9 Johnson & Johnson? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q And it's from somebody named R.C. Reynolds at the 11:5 7 11:5 7 12 Department of Earth Science in Dartmouth, New 13 Hampshire? 14 A Dartmouth College, yes. 11:5 7 15 Q Right, Dartmouth College. 11:5 7 16 Analysis of talc products and ores for 11:5 7 17 asbestiform amphiboles; right? 18 A Yes, sir. 11:5 8 19 Q Does this memorandum describe - 11:5 8 20 MR. FINCH: Maybe I'll go back to the 11:5 8 21 PowerPoint, Jon. 22 Q -- this heavy liquid concentration technique as a 11:5 8 23 way to optimize the ability to identify asbestos in 24 talc? 25 A Yes. T h e y k n e w a b o u t that. T h e y w e r e w o r k i n g o n a 11:58 Page 753 1 method for that and said, yes, that's a great way 2 to do it. 3 Q What they -- what the Dartmouth people say is, "For 1:58 4 the reasons described above, a concentration 5 technique is mandatory because it brings the 6 amphiboles into a reasonable concentration range 7 for optical or other methods of analysis. Such a 8 method has been developed, and it's described in 9 this report." 10 And the report goes on for something like 25, 1:5 8 11 30 pages, right, Dr. Rigler? 12 A Yes, yes. 1:5 8 13 Q Do they actually show an example of the tool used 1:5 8 14 to separate out the talc from the heavier 15 materials? 16 A Yes. 1:5 9 17 Q What are we looking at here? 1:5 9 18 A What they have is a test tube that has -- it's been 1 :5 9 19 filled with the heavy liquid material and mixed - 20 they mix the talc in with it. So here they're 21 actually putting it together and they mix it up, 22 and then they put it into a centrifuge. And then 23 when they apply the centrifugal force to it, the 24 talc and the amphibole asbestos, because the 25 densities are different, will separate. The talc's Page 754 1 going to go to the top. The heavy amphibole 2 asbestos is going to go to the bottom. So that's 3 what they're showing here. 4 Q And on page 7 of the document, do they describe - 1 :5 9 5 well, let me back up. 6 What are we looking at on the right here 7 versus what are we looking at on the left? 1.2:00 8 A On the right is a small centrifuge, a test tube 1.2 : 0 0 9 that is used at the laboratory, our laboratory, 10 MAS's laboratory, to do the same exact kind of 11 separation, whereby you put the talc mixed with the 12 heavy density fluid into the centrifuge. In this 13 case it's a small centrifuge tube, and then you 14 centrifuge it at high speed, and then you recover 15 the heavy asbestos from the bottom of the tube and 16 the talc goes to the top. 17 Q And the picture from the Dartmouth document is 1.2 : 0 0 18 here. 19 A Yes. 1.2 : 0 0 20 Q And on the right, that's just a picture of a test 1.2 : 0 0 21 tube used at the lab you were with? 22 A Yes. 1.2 : 0 0 23 Q And then you stick it into some kind of centrifuge 1.2 : 0 0 24 machine? 25 A Yes, sir. 1.2:00 Page 755 1 Q And then that spins really fast? 2 A Yes. - 2:00 - 2:00 3 Q And it separates out the heavy stuff from the - 2:00 4 lighter stuff -- or the denser stuff from the less 5 dense stuff? 6 A Correct. - 2:00 7 Q And in this Exhibit 358, do they describe both what - 2:00 8 they used as the heavy liquid for the centrifugal 9 separation of fiber form amphiboles from talc as 10 well as what they found? 11 A Yes, yes, they did. - 2:01 12 Q Could you just read that for us. - 2:01 13 A Yes, sir. "Mixtures of bromoform, methyl iodide, - 2:01 14 and benzethonium chloride monohydrate provide a 15 suitable heavy liquid for the centrifugal 16 separation fiber form amphiboles from talc." 17 Q And they write, "The ore sample contains 2300 ppm -12:01 18 actinolite, and the talc product contains 19 approximately 170 ppm actinolite." 20 And what is 170 ppm in percentages? - 2:01 21 A The 170 ppm is about .1 percent. - 2:01 22 Q .017 percent? ' 2:01 23 A Yes, excuse me, .017 percent. ' 2:01 24 Q And do they go on to write that "Actinolite is the - 2:02 25 dominant fiber form amphibole in the ore and the Page 756 1 talc product provided by Windsor Minerals. Small 2 amounts of anthophyllite may be present"? 3 A Yes. 4 Q What does it mean when some -- a document says, 5 "fiber form amphibole" in the scientific 6 literature? 7 A They're talking about the fact that it is fibrous 8 and it meets the definition of an asbestiform 9 asbestos type. 10 Q And in this same document, do -- unfortunately, we 11 only have the -- do they have a picture of what - 12 the asbestos fibers that they identified? 13 A Yes. They're showing in that picture, the red 14 circle, they're pointing to the long fiber there 15 that's an anthophyllite fiber and the shorter, 16 thicker, fatter fiber is called actinolite. And 17 they're both in that preparation of talc that was 18 from this mine. 19 Q This is in Plaintiffs' Exhibit 358, Plate 7, and 20 the Bates label at the end is 29429? I don't know 21 if that's -- it is on the bottom of the screen. 22 A Yes. 23 Q Is that correct? 24 Are you familiar with the Ontario Department 25 of Mines' asbestos identification protocol relating Page 757 1 to mineralogy of asbestos? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Could you explain to the jury what that is. 4 A This is a definition of asbestos that has in its 5 defining terms as being a substance that has 6 flexibility, tensile strength is usually high, 7 tensile strength is what they'll say, and the 8 asbestiform growth habit. 9 Q Is there any way on a microscopic level to detect 10 for flexibility or tensile strength? 11 A No. Unfortunately, this is part of the definition 12 for the bulk or the larger form of it. If you have 13 a big piece of asbestos in your hand and it has 14 asbestos fibers sticking out of it, you could apply 15 that to that kind of sample. But when you get down 16 to the level of the electron microscope where you 17 have these tiny fibers that float around and you 18 breathe in, those, as far as doing tensile strength 19 test, you can't do that. So yeah. 20 Q What about asbestiform growth habit, what's that? 21 A Well, that is describing that it is in a fibrous 22 form and that it grows from what they call a 23 crystalline fibrous kind of habit. 24 Q And can you tell at a microscopic level what habit 25 a 5-micron long asbestos fiber came from? Page 758 1 A Yes. Usually it will have parallel sides, the 2 structure will. You'll also be able to see 3 individual fibers in these, what they call bundles. 4 And so you can see the individual fibers, and 5 that's called an asbestiform habit. 6 It'll also have a specific length-to-width 7 ratio, what they call an aspect ratio, and that's 8 important because the regulatory agencies say that 9 it needs to be at least three-to-one aspect ratio, 10 that is three times longer than it is wide or five 11 times longer than it is wide. And that depends 12 upon the agency. So that's important. 13 Q For purposes of a regulated asbestos fiber, and by 14 that I mean if you find it in the environment, 15 whether you call it asbestos or not, has the United 16 States EPA put out rules for how you identify 17 asbestos as compared to something else? 18 A Yes. 19 Q We're looking at something called the EPA/AHERA. 20 What is the EPA/AHERA methodology and can you just 21 describe how it plays into defining asbestos in the 22 environment or asbestos in the building or 23 something. 24 A Okay. The AHERA stands for Asbestos Hazardous 25 Emergency Relief Act, and this was a regulation Page 759 1 that came about in the '80s simply because we 2 discovered asbestos was very bad and that there was 3 quite a bit of it in schools around the country. 4 So the edict was to get it out of the schools; 5 thus, the act itself. 6 And in that document are descriptions for the 7 analysis of asbestos in bulk materials and also in 8 air samples. So when you're clearing -- when you 9 actually take it out, you have to check and see 10 that there isn't any asbestos fibers in the air 11 once you do that too. 12 So the act describes the procedures for the 13 analysis, and it uses transmission electron 14 microscopy and the steps that we talked about 15 earlier on looking at the shape and form of the 16 asbestos, the chemistry of the asbestos, and also 17 the crystallinity of diffraction pattern. So 18 that's - 19 Q Is that the three-step method you're talking about 20 here? 21 A Yes. 22 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, we're getting ready to 23 change topics and go into more detail on this. 24 Would this be an appropriate time for the lunch 25 break? Page 760 1 THE COURT: Yes, we can do that. 2 Before we leave, another admonishment. We're 3 going to take a lunch break now. Please be back 4 at -- let's see, it's ten after 12. Why don't we 5 make it 1:15. 6 I have told you not to talk about the case and 7 to keep an open mind concerning it. You're not to 8 discuss the case or the evidence in the case with 9 anyone else, and you are not to permit anyone else 10 to talk to you or in your presence on any subject 11 or matter connected with this trial. 12 It is your duty to keep an open mind about the 13 case until it is submitted to you for deliberation. 14 Furthermore, during a recess, you should not talk 15 to any of the attorneys, their staff, any witnesses 16 about anything, not even to pass the time of day. 17 You must be and appear to be impartial at all 18 times. 19 In addition, jurors are not allowed to read 20 anything concerning any of the parties or products 21 in this case. This includes simply reading the 22 paper, listening to the radio, or internet 23 articles. Also, you may not Google anything 24 concerning the parties or products involved in this 25 case on your phone. You must be and appear to be Page 761 1 impartial at all times. 2 Lastly, the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct 3 prohibits broadcasting, televising, recording, or 4 taking photographs in a courtroom and areas 5 immediately adjacent during sessions of court or 6 during any recesses of the trial. 7 With these admonishments, you are released for 8 lunch. Thank you. 9 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 10 (Whereupon, the jury exited the courtroom.) 11 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 12 (A lunch recess was taken.) 13 THE COURT: We're on the record, so we can 14 begin. This is argument concerning Plaintiffs' 15 offer to enter into evidence a Johnson & Johnson 16 Consumer, Inc., notice to voluntarily recall a 17 single lot of Johnson's baby powder in the United 18 States. 19 MR. BICKS: Your Honor, can I just -- before 20 we do this, should the witness be in here when 21 we're having the argument? 22 THE COURT: Oh, certainly -- I mean certainly 23 not. So sir, if you could please -- and you're 24 welcome to step into the court office, and they can 25 show you to one of the hearing rooms if you'd like Page 762 1 a seat. 2 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 3 THE COURT: And just tell them that I said to 4 let you in. 5 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 6 MR. FINCH: May it please the Court, Your 7 Honor. Plaintiffs' Exhibit 4 is a document that 8 just was created by Johnson & Johnson approximately 9 8 a.m. this morning. It is an admission of a party 10 opponent. It is -- I believe there's no dispute 11 about its authenticity. Mr. Bicks alerted me to 12 its existence this morning. 13 From the outset of this case, the testing 14 methodology and adequacy of the testing methodology 15 to detect asbestos in talc is a central dispute 16 between the parties. 17 Jon, do you have the opening? I was going to 18 put it up on the screen, but in yesterday's opening 19 statement, Mr. Bicks says, "The FDA also tested 20 Johnson & Johnson's talc in China. This isn't 21 Johnson & Johnson's testing. This is the FDA. 22 From time to time they've tested Johnson & 23 Johnson's talc. They went and hired an independent 24 laboratory to do it. These are the test results. 25 At t h e e n d of t h e day, t h e r e is n o a s b e s t o s Page 763 1 detected in any Johnson & Johnson's product, no 2 asbestos detected in the mines that Johnson & 3 Johnson was using. They tested the source mine. 4 They tested the finished product. This is what the 5 FDA did." 6 Now we find out that sometime prior to this : 7 morning, the FDA told Johnson & Johnson that it 8 indicated subtrace levels of chrysotile asbestos 9 contamination in Johnson's baby powder. This is 10 the China mine. And while I don't contend that 11 Melody Lewis used this particular bottle of baby 12 powder, I do -- there is evidence in the record she 13 continued using Johnson's baby powder up through 14 the year 2018. And while that may not have been 15 the exposure that contributed to her cancer, the 16 dispute between the experts as to the adequacy of 17 the testing and whether there's ever been asbestos 18 detected in Johnson & Johnson and whether the 19 limitations of the test methodology followed by the 20 FDA and Johnson & Johnson are sufficiently 21 sensitive has been an issue throughout this case. 22 So -- and furthermore, we have not had the : 23 opportunity for discovery about this document. 24 Obviously we couldn't have added it to our exhibit 25 list until right now because it didn't exist until Page 764 1 right now. 2 I find it astonishing that a lawyer for 3 Johnson & Johnson could stand up in open court and 4 say the FDA has repeatedly tested our products, 5 including our China mines, which is the mines 6 they've been using since 2003, and they've never 7 detected any asbestos. 8 I find it hard to believe that -- this is a 9 press release issued by the company. I find it 10 hard to believe that Johnson & Johnson was not 11 aware of the results of this FDA test prior to 12 yesterday. It's not like -- it's not like the FDA 13 will notify Johnson & Johnson at 6 a.m. this 14 morning and Johnson & Johnson will put out a press 15 release at 8 a.m. That just can't possibly happen. 16 If you look at the end of the document, it's 17 got all the boilerplates, note to investors 18 concerning forward-looking statements. I've done a 19 fair amount of securities litigation in my life, 20 Your Honor, and nothing goes out in a press release 21 without corporate lawyers looking at it six ways 22 from Sunday. So clearly Johnson & Johnson's 23 corporate lawyers had advance notice this was 24 coming before Mr. Bicks stood up and made his 25 representations to this jury in open court. Page 765 1 So either one of two things has happened. 2 Either Mr. Bicks, knowing the FDA had told 3 Johnson & Johnson of this positive test result, 4 nonetheless said what he said, or perhaps much more 5 likely, Johnson & Johnson did not notify Mr. Bicks 6 about this positive test result. 7 Either way, it's an admission of the party 8 opponent. It's relevant to the issues of the case. 9 It's connected to an exhibit that Johnson & Johnson 10 added to its exhibit list just last week. They had 11 a letter from the FDA in September of 2019 that 12 said, in effect, although the results of testing 13 are preliminary, we're still looking at it, we 14 don't think there's any asbestos in the baby powder 15 we're testing. 16 Your Honor entered an order allowing them to 17 add a September 2019 document from the FDA to their 18 exhibit list. Apparently they had a document from 19 the FDA that was a communication from the FDA. 20 We've been on the website of the FDA all morning 21 and couldn't find whatever it is the FDA gave to 22 Johnson & Johnson. 23 But I think under any analysis, this meets all 24 four tests for admissibility. It's an authentic 25 document. It is a statement against interest and Page 766 1 an admission of a party opponent. It's clearly 2 relevant to the issues in this case. And I think 3 the fact that we didn't have it on our exhibit list 4 last week is excused by the fact that it didn't 5 exist until this morning. This is like, if a 6 lawyer stands up in opening statement in a car 7 wreck case and says, the brakes were totally fine, 8 and then it turns out that a mechanic's report is 9 in the files of his client and somehow it gets 10 turned over to the plaintiff the very next morning, 11 it would obviously be admissible in that context. 12 So for all those reasons, Your Honor, we would 1.3 :24 13 respectfully request, A, to be able to amend our 14 exhibit list to add Plaintiffs' Exhibit 4 to it; 15 and B, to offer this document into evidence so that 16 the jury can see it as part of the evidence of this 17 case, and there would be absolutely no possibility 18 of any kind of a mistrial because somebody might 19 have seen something about it in the press or 20 anything like that. 21 THE COURT: And Mr. Bicks. 22 MR. EATON: Your Honor, Joe Eaton. 23 THE COURT: I'm sorry, Mr. Eaton. 24 MR. EATON: I'm going to help Mr. Bicks out 25 with this one. 1.3:2 5 13:2 5 13:2 5 13:2 5 Page 767 1 So Your Honor, first, we too just got notice 2 of this press release this morning. And instead of 3 rushing to judgment on this issue, we would ask 4 that the Court allow the parties to brief this 5 issue, file a motion in limine. In particular, 6 there's a couple other legal issues. 7 They've argued it's an admission of a party 8 opponent. But under 407, this is clearly a 9 subsequent remedial measure. They're trying to use 10 it to prove negligence. They talked about culpable 11 conduct and our testing methods. They're trying to 12 use it show that a warning or a different warning 13 should have been given, all precluded by Rule 407. 14 There's ample case law, Indiana State Court, 15 Seventh Circuit, Southern District of Indiana, 16 excluding a voluntary recall just like in this 17 instance that's issued years and years after the 18 initial -- certainly the initial alleged exposure. 19 The issue about 2018, I don't think there's any 20 testimony by Melody Lewis that she bought her 21 Johnson's baby powder online. The issue on the 22 recall is one limited lot that was purchased from 23 an online retailer. 24 So several issues, I think, that we should 25 have ample time, Your Honor, to brief the issue to Page 768 1 bring those to you, because they're inviting error 2 here because - 3 THE COURT: Now, when you say "ample time," : 4 what are you thinking of? 5 MR. EATON: We'll file a brief tomorrow, and : 6 we can argue it at the break of Hopkins on Monday. 7 We can file -- they can file their response Monday. 8 Dr. Rigler's coming back Tuesday, so the rush here 9 to get this in today, on Friday afternoon, with 10 Rigler doesn't seem warranted in this instance. 11 This is a press release that came out at 8:38 : 12 this morning. And there was a discussion, 13 Mr. Bicks disclosed to the Court about the 14 existence of the recall, disclosed it to 15 plaintiffs' counsel. There were some discussions 16 that they wouldn't use it. And so now that they 17 want to use it with Rigler, we'd just like the 18 opportunity to brief this, because I think they're 19 inviting the error here, Your Honor, because it's 20 clearly inadmissible under 407. And we can brief 21 the issues on whether it's an admission of a party 22 opponent. 23 MR. FINCH: May I be heard on the 407 issue? : 24 Rule 407, subsequent remedial measures, when 25 measures are taken that would have been made an Page 769 1 earlier injury or harm less likely to occur, 2 evidence of the subsequent measures is not 3 admissible to prove negligence, culpable conduct, 4 design defect, or a need for a warning or 5 instruction. We're not offering it for any of 6 those reasons. 7 Rule 407 goes on to say, "The Court may admit : 8 this evidence for another purpose, such as 9 impeachment." 10 It is impeaching, A, to their testing expert. : 11 It's impeaching to the company. The company has 12 taken the position that there have never, ever been 13 any asbestos fiber ever. No. 3, it is not the 14 recall that we seek to admit. It's the fact that 15 the FDA told Johnson & Johnson and Johnson & 16 Johnson admitted that there was chrysotile asbestos 17 in the baby powder. 18 And furthermore, Your Honor, if we wait until : 19 Monday, I -- there are few certainties in life, but 20 I suspect the first thing we'll be hit with Monday 21 morning is a motion for mistrial because the 22 possibility the jurors may have seen something 23 about this on the news or over the weekend just 24 because it's going to pop up on, you know - 25 they're watching football and there's something Page 770 1 about Johnson & Johnson. They can't turn the 2 channel fast enough. If this becomes evidence in 3 this case, then it can't possibly create a mistrial 4 situation. 5 So for all those reasons, Your Honor, I think 1.3:2 9 6 it is proper to admit the document now, allow us to 7 publish it to the jury now, and to then continue on 8 with Dr. Rigler's testimony. And I won't ask 9 Dr. Rigler any questions about this. 10 THE COURT: So you're saying you want to offer 11 it for purposes of impeachment so that you can :.3:2 9 12 question the witness as to the FDA's knowledge and 13 their reporting? 14 MR. FINCH: No, as to Johnson & Johnson's - :.3:2 9 15 it impeaches Johnson & Johnson's credibility, it 16 impeaches Johnson & Johnson's testing methods, and 17 it impeaches the FDA's testing methods in the sense 18 that the FDA has said that, up to now, it has not 19 found asbestos in baby powder but now apparently 20 it's using more sensitive techniques and it has. 21 So I think - 22 THE COURT: So you want to use it when :.3:3 0 23 Johnson & Johnson begins putting their witnesses 24 on? 25 MR. FINCH: I want to cross-examine their :.3:3 0 Page 771 1 witnesses, and I haven't thought through, how could 2 Dr. Rigler have put this as part of his reliance 3 materials if it didn't exist before today. 4 THE COURT: So you don't intend to use it 1.3:3 0 5 today? 6 MR. FINCH: I don't intend to use it today, :.3:3 0 7 but I do intend to publish it to the jury today. 8 We don't have to have any expert testimony about 9 it, but I do intend to publish it to the jury right 10 after lunch and then continue with Dr. Rigler. 11 MR. EATON: Your Honor, it's true that :.3:3 0 12 impeachment is an exception to Rule 407 and the 13 admissibility of subsequent remedial measures. 14 This isn't a witness for Johnson & Johnson. If 15 they want to cross the J & J witness, the first one 16 to testify now through the reordered schedule is 17 Dr. Sanchez on Thursday. We still think that it's 18 inadmissible even for those purposes, but if there 19 is an exception under 407 - 20 THE COURT: Inadmissible for purpose of :.3:3 0 21 impeachment? 22 MR. EATON: Potentially, yes, because of the :.3:3 0 23 prejudicial impact. But if it is admissible or if 24 it can be used, it can only be used for 25 impeachment, and that is of a witness proffered by Page 772 1 J & J, not an expert for the plaintiff. 2 THE COURT: Which we're not there yet. But 3 the other concern, it sounds like, from plaintiffs 4 is the possibility of mistrial if this would -- how 5 this might impact the jury over the weekend. 6 So can you address that, please. 7 MR. EATON: Your Honor, you've admonished the 8 jury every day. There's information about lawsuits 9 all over the place on the web. So you've 10 admonished them, and we're assuming that they're 11 following your admonishment not to -- you said 12 don't watch TV, don't use social media, and we're 13 expecting the jury to abide by your admonishment 14 and your regulations. We've done that since the 15 beginning of jury selection. And there's lots of 16 things out there that the jury could Google. So we 17 think that admonishment should carry over for the 18 weekend. 19 MR. BICKS: And also, it's not an argument. 20 The arguments against admission of this have 21 already been made and are well-founded. It's not a 22 rationale to ignore the rules of evidence because 23 it could avoid a mistrial, because allowing 24 something in, that shouldn't be allowed in, is 25 going to create error. So that's -- I don't know Page 773 1 the rationale, let's do something that we shouldn't 2 do because there's a possibility of media 3 attention, I don't think is a persuasive rationale. 4 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, this is no different : 5 than if a company published an admission on its - 6 if it published -- if this happened a month and a 7 half ago, it would clearly be on our exhibit list. 8 It would clearly be admissible, just like the 9 letter that Johnson & Johnson has from the FDA is 10 admissible, because it -- it's like a piece of 11 literature in the scientific regime if it comes out 12 a few days before trial. 13 I mean, one of the debates is, today, based on : 14 what we know today, can asbestos cause 15 mesothelioma. Based on what we know today, can 16 asbestos from talc cause mesothelioma. Based on 17 what we know today, can asbestos be detected in 18 Johnson's baby powder. That's a central dispute 19 between the parties. 20 And their position is the FDA has repeatedly : 21 tested our product and never, never, ever found any 22 asbestos. When Mr. Bicks stood up in court and 23 said that yesterday, either he was not telling the 24 truth to this jury or Johnson & Johnson hadn't told 25 him the results of this. I don't know which to Page 774 1 believe. 2 But I think this is highly relevant. I don't 3 think Rule 407 has anything to do with the 4 admissibility of the document. We're not 5 talking -- if you want to redact the words 6 "voluntary recall," instead the only portion of the 7 document would say, "United States, a single lot of 8 its Johnson's baby powder in response to a Food & 9 Drug Administration test indicating the presence of 10 subtrace levels of chrysotile asbestos 11 contamination in samples from a single bottle 12 purchased from an online retailer." 13 I mean, that's really what we want the jury to 14 see, is the Johnson & Johnson logo and 15 New Brunswick, New Jersey, and then "in response to 16 a U.S. Food & Drug Administration test indicating 17 the presence of subtrace levels of chrysotile 18 asbestos contamination, no greater than point bunch 19 of zeros 2 percent in samples from a single bottle 20 purchased from an online retailer." Everything 21 else, if there's any concern about Rule 407, we 22 could redact out of the document. 23 MR. BICKS: Just -- the one point that he's - 24 we're making predictions about things that may have 25 happened. Our responsibility is to bring things to Page 775 1 the Court's attention, which is why I did it this 2 morning. The letter that got on our exhibit list 3 we put on as soon as we got it. We haven't even 4 used it yet. And I didn't use it in opening 5 statement. 6 If it turns out that when Dr. Sanchez or in : 7 some event I come out and say, oh, we just got a 8 letter from the FDA, you know, two weeks ago, which 9 we did, that said they had done testing and they 10 didn't see anything, then it's a different 11 situation. But we haven't even done that yet. I 12 didn't introduce any of that. We haven't even 13 gotten to our case, and I didn't say anything about 14 it. 15 So I think the prudent course here is to just : 16 have this laid out legally and then when it's in 17 our case, if we raise something that implicates 18 this, then we deal with it. But I can tell you, in 19 looking at this, and knowing this area, Your Honor 20 has seen a lot of information so far about test 21 results which are later not validated because of 22 contamination issues. And even their expert, 23 nobody on their side has found chrysotile in 24 Chinese talc. Their expert, over 90 samples 25 tested, and nobody is saying this. They're not Page 776 1 even maintaining in this case that this type of 2 asbestos is in Chinese talc, which makes this even 3 more questionable reliability, which is one of the 4 reasons people are examining this right now. 5 And I would also add that the comments were : 6 made in the opening by Mr. Finch in essence that 7 what happened in China is irrelevant to the case. 8 And I believe, because they offered expert 9 testimony by Dr. Brody that said exposures going 10 back 10 to 15 years from the date of the diagnosis 11 are not relevant to the disease. 12 And so he's made at least two statements on : 13 the record now in essence saying to the jury that 14 Chinese talc really doesn't have anything to do 15 with the case. And I've seen that now back in our 16 office before I came over here. So now pivoting 17 and now saying a test that's done after diagnosis 18 and after the plaintiff stopped using the product 19 of one sample online, that people are now 20 investigating the reliability of it, is going 21 pretty far afield here. 22 MR. EATON: And Your Honor, the rush here, : 23 we'll -- I'm speaking for others back at the 24 office. We will agree to file our brief by 6 p.m. 25 We will e-mail it to plaintiffs. They'll have it. Page 1 1 1 1 They can respond. And we can address this first 2 thing -- obviously it's not an issue for Hopkins 3 Monday, so we can have argument Monday. The rush 4 here is part of the concern about inviting error 5 with a document like this. 6 MR. FINCH: May I be heard? : 7 THE COURT: And concluding remarks from : 8 Mr. Finch. 9 MR. FINCH: Yes, Your Honor. As to -- a : 10 document or a thing can be admissible for more than 11 one purpose. I'm not contending that this lot of 12 Johnson's baby powder caused or contributed to 13 Melody Lewis' mesothelioma. What I am contending 14 is Johnson & Johnson has taken the position and has 15 in opening and in documents already in this case, 16 that its testing methods are good enough to detect 17 any level of asbestos and asbestos would never, 18 ever, ever get through. They're going to hear that 19 from Hopkins in his testimony that we've tested 20 this stuff. You heard it in some of the 21 cross-examination of our witnesses, that there was 22 testing done and that Johnson & Johnson's position 23 is, our testing is so good, there could never be 24 asbestos get through, ever. 25 And this impeaches that, Your Honor. So : Page 778 1 that's why it's relevant, and it's relevant all the 2 way back to the beginning of time for whenever 3 Johnson & Johnson started testing. 4 As to his response that chrysotile is not : 5 detected in Chinese talc, as Dr. Rigler explained 6 this morning, using the heavy liquid density 7 separation techniques, you look for amphiboles. 8 They haven't been able to develop that to look for 9 chrysotile. So the fact that they found this in 10 Chinese -- found some chrysotile without apparently 11 using that technique is evidence that there is 12 asbestos contamination in talc and that Johnson & 13 Johnson's testing methods are not sufficiently 14 adequate to prevent that. 15 So I think for all those reasons -- and : 16 finally, Your Honor, you can't close your eyes to 17 the real world. People -- anybody who has a 18 Twitter account, even it they're not looking, if 19 they're not actively looking for anything about 20 Johnson & Johnson -- I believe the jury will follow 21 Your Honor's instructions. I am -- I am concerned 22 that we will be hit with a mistrial motion first 23 thing Monday morning because they will say, this 24 was on Twitter, this was on CNN Alerts, this was on 25 this, this was on that. And I have no doubt that Page 779 1 our jury will not go out and seek any information, 2 and I have no doubt as soon as they see anything 3 like that, they won't look at it. But this is an 4 admission of a party opponent that is clearly 5 relevant under all the bases for admission against 6 a party opponent, doesn't violate Rule 407, and we 7 would like to read the sentence out of it once the 8 jury comes back. 9 THE COURT: You'd like to read the sentence? 1.3:39 10 MR. FINCH: The sentence that would have 1.3:39 11 Johnson & Johnson's letterhead, the New Brunswick, 12 New Jersey, October 2019, "In response to a U.S. 13 Food & Drug Administration (FDA) test indicating 14 the presence of subtrace levels of chrysotile 15 asbestos contamination no greater than 16 .00002 percent in samples from a single bottle 17 purchased from an online retailer." 18 THE COURT: That's the part you want to read? 1.3:4 0 19 MR. FINCH: Can I highlight what I want to 1.3:4 0 20 read so I -- for the avoidance of doubt, as 21 corporate lawyers might say. 22 So it would read for the record, "Johnson & 1 3 : 41 23 Johnson, our company, New Brunswick, New Jersey, 24 October 18, 2019. In the United States of a single 25 lot of its Johnson's baby powder in response to a Page 780 1 U.S. Food & Drug Administration test indicating the 2 presence of subtrace levels of chrysotile asbestos 3 contamination no greater than .00002 of a percent 4 in samples from a single bottle purchased from an 5 online retailer." 6 That's the portion I would like to read to the :.3:41 7 jury. And we would redact the document when we 8 have the time to do so, and that would be the only 9 portion of Plaintiffs' Exhibit 4 we would seek to 10 offer. 11 THE COURT: Do you want to look at this? C3 :41 12 MR. BICKS: And so you have our position on C3 :41 13 14 THE COURT: I do. C3 :41 15 MR. BICKS: And, I mean, we would object to C3 :41 16 17 THE COURT: Yes. The Court knows that the C3 :41 18 parties are going -- even if they adhere to the 19 Court's admonishment, are bound to see a limited 20 amount of information about this. And I see the 21 value in informing them within the context of the 22 courtroom setting so that they know and can ignore 23 it going forward into any further investigation or 24 articles. 25 So the Court has heard your objection. And I :3 :42 Page 781 1 will take -- the parties will have the opportunity 2 to provide the Court with briefs as to admission of 3 the balance of the document, but the Court admits 4 that sentence today. 5 MR. BICKS: Well, then, Your Honor, if we're 1.3 :4 2 6 going to do that, then I'd like to have another 7 part of it then admitted. Can I have the 8 highlighter? 9 THE COURT: It's the official highlighter. 1.3 :4 2 10 MR. EATON: And how are you going to introduce 1.3 :4 3 11 it to them? 12 MR. FINCH: I'm just going to read from it. 1.3 :4 3 13 We'll redact it before it goes back - 14 MR. EATON: Before Rigler's on the stand? 1.3 :4 3 15 MR. FINCH: Yeah. 1.3 :4 3 16 MR. BICKS: So we would just not have the 1.3 :4 3 17 recall part, but out of completion, we would have 18 that. 19 MR. FINCH: I don't think I have an objection 1.3 :4 3 20 to that, Your Honor, as long as it doesn't have 21 anything about recall. I guess I would like - 22 well, no. Let me talk to Ms. Farinas. 23 We will read it as highlighted. 1.3 :4 3 24 MR. BICKS: And subject to our objection. 1.3 : 4 4 25 T H E C O U R T : P a r d o n ? S u b j e c t to -- 1.3 : 4 4 Page 782 1 MR. BICKS: Subject to the objections as to 1.3 : 4 4 2 the whole. 3 THE COURT: Over objections. :3 :44 4 MR. BICKS: Right. And how exactly are we :3 :44 5 going to be doing this? 6 MR. FINCH: I'm going to stand in front of :3 :44 7 jury, offer Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7, read it to them, 8 and say that a copy will be -- an appropriate copy 9 will be available for -- as evidence. 10 MR. BICKS: Right. And so can we then -- can :3 :44 11 he read what he wants to read and then I'd like to 12 read Johnson & Johnson's fairness provision. 13 MR. FINCH: I'll read the whole thing. :3 :44 14 MR. BICKS: No, I'd like to read from :3 :44 15 Johnson & Johnson the counterpart. 16 THE COURT: Well, it's his exhibit. :3 :44 17 MR. BICKS: Right. But if we were doing :3 :44 18 fairness -- 19 MR. FINCH: I said I'm going to read it. :3 :44 20 MR. EATON: If it were a deposition :3 :44 21 designation, they would read their part, we would 22 read ours. 23 MR. FINCH: But I just agreed to read their :3 :44 24 part, Your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Well, I understand that. :3 :44 Page 783 1 MR. BICKS: I would prefer to read our part, 13:44 2 because he may emphasize a little differently. 3 MR. FINCH: Far be it from me to emphasize. :3 :45 4 THE COURT: Well, you're objecting to its :3 :45 5 admission; right? 6 MR. BICKS: Right. :3 :45 7 THE COURT: So given that it's his exhibit, :3 :45 8 the Court's going to let him read it. 9 MR. BICKS: All right. And I assume he's - :3 :45 10 we're not going to have a dramatic - 11 MR. FINCH: I'm not going to ham it up. :3 :45 12 THE COURT: Well, let's hear it now, :3 :45 13 Mr. Finch. 14 MS. FARINAS: Mr. Finch, she wants to hear you :3 :45 15 read it. 16 MR. FINCH: "Johnson & Johnson, our company, :3 :45 17 New Brunswick, New Jersey, October 18, 2019. In 18 the United States of a single of its Johnson's baby 19 powder in response to a U.S. Food & Drug 20 Administration test indicating the presence of 21 subtrace levels of chrysotile asbestos 22 contamination not greater than .00002 percent in 23 samples from a single bottle purchased from an 24 online retailer. 25 "At this early stage of the investigation, :3 :45 Page 784 1 JJCI cannot confirm if cross-contamination of the 2 sample caused a false positive, cannot confirm 3 whether the sample was taken from a bottle with an 4 intact seal or whether the sample was prepared in a 5 controlled environment, cannot confirm whether the 6 tested product is authentic or counterfeit. JJCI 7 has a rigorous testing standard in place to ensure 8 its cosmetic talc is safe. In years of testing, 9 including the FDA's own testing on prior occasions 10 and as recently as last month, found no asbestos. 11 Thousands of tests over the past 40 years" - 12 You know what, Mr. Bicks, you can read your 1.3 :46 13 part because I'm going to mess it up. 14 MR. EATON: And Your Honor, there's not going 1.3 :46 15 to be any context for the document. You're not 16 going to say, this is related to something in the 17 news or -- he's just going to read it in and that's 18 it. Because the idea, of course, is not to draw 19 their attention to going out and looking for 20 something about Johnson's baby powder. 21 THE COURT: Well, Mr. Finch can ask to offer 1.3 :46 22 it and the Court will say that it is being offered 23 over objection. 24 MR. EATON: Okay. 1.3 :46 25 THE COURT: And do both defendants object? I 1.3 :46 Page 785 1 don't think that BMW cares. 2 MR. EATON: Yeah, BMW objects. 1.3 : 4 7 3 MS. WEGLARZ: No objection. :3 :47 4 THE COURT: Okay, thanks. So wait a minute. :3 :47 5 Does that mean yes or no? 6 MS. FARINAS: They don't object. :3 :47 7 MR. HARNEY: Yeah, no objection. :3 :47 8 THE COURT: All right, thank you. So are we :3 :47 9 ready for the jury? 10 MR. FINCH: If I could have two minutes, Your :3 :47 11 Honor. 12 THE COURT: Well, it'll take that long to get 13 them. 14 We can go off the record. 15 (Discussion held off the record.) 16 THE BAILIFF: All rise. 17 (Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.) 18 THE COURT: Welcome. Please be seated. 19 Well, we're going to begin again this 20 afternoon. Thanks very much for being so prompt 21 and coming back in time. The Court really :3 :47 :3 :47 :3 :47 :.3:4 9 :.3:4 9 :.3:50 :.3:50 22 appreciates it. 23 And plaintiffs are going to continue with the 24 presentation of their case. 25 MR. FINCH: Yo u r Honor, m a y it p l e a s e the :.3:50 :.3:50 Page 786 1 Court. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. 2 We will bring back Dr. Rigler momentarily, but 3 in the interim, plaintiffs would offer Plaintiffs' 4 Exhibit No. 4, which is a press release issued by 5 Johnson & Johnson on today's date. We would offer 6 Exhibit No. 4 pursuant to your Court's rulings. 7 THE COURT: The Court shows Exhibit No. 4 is 13:51 8 admitted over the objection of Johnson & Johnson, 9 as redacted. 10 MR. FINCH: "Johnson & Johnson, our company, 13:51 11 New Brunswick, New Jersey, October 18, 2019. In 12 the United States of a single lot of its Johnson's 13 baby powder in response to a U.S. Food & Drug 14 Administration (FDA) test indicating the presence 15 of subtrace levels of chrysotile asbestos 16 contamination no greater than .00002 percent in 17 samples from a single bottle purchased from an 18 online retailer." 19 MR. BICKS: And then Your Honor, you've 13:52 20 permitted - 21 THE COURT: Yes. 13:52 22 They're each going to read part of the 13:52 23 exhibit. 24 MR. BICKS: "At this early stage of the 13:52 25 investigation, JJCI cannot confirm if Page 787 1 cross-contamination of the sample caused a false 2 positive, cannot confirm whether the sample was 3 taken from a bottle with an intact seal or whether 4 the sample was prepared in a controlled 5 environment, cannot confirm whether the tested 6 product is authentic or counterfeit. JJCI has a 7 rigorous testing standard in place to ensure its 8 cosmetic talc is safe, and years of testing, 9 including the FDA's own testing on prior occasions 10 and as recently as last month, found no asbestos. 11 Thousands of tests over the past 40 years have 12 repeatedly confirmed that our consumer talc 13 products do not contain asbestos. Our talc comes 14 from ore sources confirmed to meet our stringent 15 specifications that exceed industry standards. Not 16 only do we and our suppliers routinely test to 17 ensure our talc does not contain asbestos, our talc 18 has also been tested and confirmed to be asbestos 19 free by a range of independent laboratories, 20 universities, and global health authorities." 21 THE COURT: And the Court shows that admitted 22 over objection, as redacted. 23 MR. FINCH: May we recall Dr. Rigler to the 24 stand, Your Honor? 25 THE COURT: Yes. Page 788 1 MR. FINCH: May I go get him? 1.3:53 2 THE COURT: Yes. The Court's going to write :.3:53 3 "Redacted" on this. 4 Welcome back, Dr. Rigler. : 3 :54 5 THE WITNESS: Thank you. :3 : 54 6 THE COURT: You were sworn this morning, and :3 : 54 7 you continue to be a sworn witness. So with that, 8 Mr. Finch may continue. 9 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor. : 3 :54 10 BY MR. FINCH: :3 : 54 11 Q Good afternoon, Dr. Rigler. Did you have a nice :3 : 54 12 lunch? 13 A Yes, sir. :3 : 54 14 Q We were talking about the three-step method for :3 : 54 15 detecting asbestos in any kind of material, whether 16 it's talc or a wall or dust or anything else. 17 A Yes. :3 : 54 18 Q Did your laboratory and Dr. Longo's laboratory :3 : 54 19 follow this three-step method in analyzing 20 Johnson's baby powder to determine if it had 21 asbestos in it? 22 A Yes, sir, we did. : 3 :54 23 Q And could you walk the jury through that here. : 3 :54 24 A Sure. We had talked about these earlier this : 3 :54 25 morning. The first step is to look at the shape Page 789 1 and the form, the length and the width. We're 2 looking for substantially parallel size on the 3 fibers or the bundles with an aspect ratio of 4 around five to one. Five to one - 5 Q Let me stop you right there. You used the term .1 3: 55 6 aspect ratio, and I'm not sure -- if the jury's 7 already heard this term, I'm sorry, but I at least 8 have forgotten. Could you just remind me, what is 9 an aspect ratio? 10 A Sure. That is a number when you divide the length :.3 :55 11 by the width, you get an aspect ratio. For 12 instance, if the fiber is 5 micrometers long and is 13 one micrometer wide, it would be five divided by 14 one, so it would have a five-to-one ratio. 15 Q So something that's longer and thinner like a :.3 :55 16 pencil would have a higher aspect ratio than 17 something that's, like, short and fat like a fist? 18 A Yes, it can, that's correct. :.3 :55 19 Q So five to one or greater, at least five microns in :.3 :55 20 length. 21 What's the second step that you follow to :.3 :56 22 determine if something's asbestos? 23 A The second step would be the chemistry. We want to :.3 :56 24 know if the chemistry matches that of the asbestos 25 type that we're looking at. So we will do an Page 790 1 analysis on the electron microscope. If you'll 2 remember, we talked about the electron 3 spectrometer, that's a tool that's on the electron 4 microscope that allows us to do an analysis and get 5 the chemistry of the fiber. 6 Q What is the third step in the process? :.3 :56 7 A The third step is the -- what we called the :.3 :56 8 electron diffraction. Remember we talked about the 9 light goes through a prism, breaks it up, you see 10 the different colors. In the electron microscope, 11 the light is the electrons, if you will. They go 12 through the specimen and then they produce a patten 13 of the crystalline structure, and then that pattern 14 is the fingerprint for the type of asbestos. 15 Q Is this protocol, this three-step approach, :.3 :56 16 discussed in ISO 222 -- excuse me, in ISO 13794 as 17 well? 18 A Yes. This is another ISO method, standard method. :.3 : 57 19 We talked about 22262-2 this morning that has to do 20 with heavy liquid separation methodology. This is 21 another one that has to do with the analysis of 22 asbestos fibers, but it uses the same kind of 23 parameters. It uses the same three-step 24 methodology. 25 Q And when you published your paper in 1995, :.3 : 57 Page 791 1 "Crocidolite asbestos fibers in Kent cigarettes," 2 did it also discuss this three-step process? 3 A Yes, it did, yes. :.3:57 4 Q It uses a word called morphology. What is :.3:57 5 morphology? 6 A That's just a fancy name for shape or form, :.3:57 7 morphology. 8 Q And in the ED, energy dispersive x-ray, that's the : .3 :57 9 chemistry? 10 A Yes, sir, that's the chemistry. :.3:57 11 Q And then this selected area, electronic :.3:58 12 diffraction, is the -- what is that, the structure, 13 the crystal structure? 14 A That's the crystal structure, Step No. 3, yes. :.3:58 15 MR. FINCH: So can I have the ELMO just a :.3:58 16 second, Jon. 17 Q Did I get that right, Doctor? :.3:58 18 A Yes, sir. :.3:58 19 Q So to avoid having to say a mouthful over and over, : .3 :58 20 that's the three-step -- did you follow that 21 three-step approach for every fiber or structure or 22 bundle that you identified as asbestos in Johnson's 23 baby powder? 24 A Yes. That's according to the standard methodology : .3 :58 25 in the published peer-reviewed methodology, yes. Page 792 1 MR. FINCH: Can I have the PowerPoint back, 1.3:58 2 Jon. 3 Q Now, in addition to your own peer-reviewed paper :.3:58 4 and the International Standards Organization, are 5 you -- you talked briefly about the ASTM method. 6 A Yes. :.3:59 7 Q The ASTM publication. Does the ASTM D5755 also :.3:59 8 discuss this three-step method that you followed to 9 identify asbestos in baby powder? 10 A Yes, it does. And as you can see from the title of : .3 :59 11 the method, this has to do with sampling for 12 asbestos in dust. So for instance, if you found 13 dust on a surface somewhere and you suspected it 14 had asbestos in it, this particular standard that's 15 by the American Society for Testing and Materials 16 uses the same three-step process to analyze that 17 dust for asbestos. 18 Q And does the EPA set forth in the regulations why :.3:59 19 it chose to use -- required this three-step TEM 20 analysis for detecting asbestos fibers? Does it 21 say -- does the EPA say that? 22 A Yes, sir, it does. That's from the federal 1.4:00 23 register document for AHERA. We talked about that 24 this morning. It uses the same three-step method. 25 Q And the method -- just to be clear, the method that 1.4:00 Page 793 1 you followed to identify asbestos in Johnson's baby 2 powder is the same three-step method that you and 3 other scientists at MAS have been following for 4 30 years? 5 A Yes. And the other asbestos laboratories also 6 follow the same protocols and procedures, yes. 7 Q And there's a reference in your - 8 MR. FINCH: Can I have the ELMO back, Jon. 9 Q There's a reference in your 1995 paper, No. 11, is 10 that the same EPA/AHERA rules, three-step process? 11 A That's correct, yes. 12 Q Did you change the way you identify asbestos fibers 13 just specially for talc? 14 A No, no, it's the same, same kind of procedure. 15 Q Since 1987, the EPA has updated the AHERA 16 regulations; is that right? 17 A Yes. 18 MR. FINCH: Can I go back to the PowerPoint, 19 Jon. 20 Q And did the current version of the EPA regulations 21 still have this three-step methodology? 22 A Yes. 23 Q So it's morphology with an aspect ratio of five to 24 one or greater and using the chemistry and the - 25 A Electron diffraction. Page 794 1 Q -- electron diffraction? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Now, does the EPA regulations also -- Dr. Brody 4 yesterday said that aspect ratios of three to one 5 or greater could be considered asbestos for a 6 public health perspective. You and your laboratory 7 are using aspect ratios of five to one or greater. 8 If you're using a higher aspect ratio, is that 9 going to mean that you're going to be calling less 10 things asbestos than maybe what a public health 11 scientist would? 12 A Yes, that's true. If you go up to a little higher 13 ratio, you're going to count fewer of the smaller 14 ones. So it's more conservative, if you will. The 15 same thing, just a five-to-one ratio versus a 16 three-to-one. OSHA's rules are for three to one. 17 Q And do the EPA regulations explain why it is they 18 picked five to one as the aspect ratio? 19 A Yes. They talked about that is the most probable 20 size of what they call asbestiform asbestos, if you 21 will. If you get down below three to one, then you 22 start to get into what we talk about chunk instead 23 of fiber. So that would not be considered 24 asbestiform, if you will. 25 So what they're looking for, once you get into Page 795 1 the three-to-one, five-to-one range or higher, then 2 it's most likely that it is asbestiform. 3 Q And there was a discussion, a debate in 1987, 4 several commentators suggested that the aspect 5 ratio length to width should be extended to ten to 6 one. 7 A Yes. 8 Q What was the EPA's ultimate conclusion, which is 9 highlighted in the second column there? 10 A They believe that it should stay -- a panel of 11 microscopists, experts that were looking at these 12 structures, said it needed to stay at a five-to-one 13 ratio. Otherwise, there are a lot of structures 14 that are asbestiform, and they can get down into 15 the lungs because the smaller they are, the higher 16 the probability they're going to get into the lung 17 tissue, deep into the lung tissue. So they wanted 18 to keep that at a five-to-one ratio. 19 Q Now, we're going to get to the overall results of 20 your testing in a while, but can you sort of walk 21 the jury through how you applied this three-step 22 method to an asbestos structure found in a sample 23 of Johnson's baby powder from a 1978 bottle. Can 24 we do that? 25 A Sure. Page 796 1 Q Okay. So what are we looking at here? 2 A This is a sample of a 1978 Johnson's baby powder 3 product. This is a nine-ounce bottle. The sample 4 number on there, M69042-002, is the laboratory 5 number for it. So when the samples come into the 6 laboratory, each one of them gets logged in, gets 7 its own specific sample number. Then it is tracked 8 throughout the laboratory and the laboratory 9 processes, so you know exactly what you're talking 10 about from start to finish. 11 Q And the little -- the fine -- as I would say, the 12 fine print at the bottom says, "MAS 1-15-19 Report 13 Backup Data Binder." 14 This is in the backup to the federal court 15 report that MAS put together through the MDL 16 process? 17 A To my knowledge, yes, it is. 18 Q And that was the -- I'll get to more details of 19 this in a little bit. Am I right that you sort of 20 did two rounds of testing on Johnson's baby powder? 21 The first round was from bottles that you obtained 22 either from lawyers like me or from online sources, 23 and the second round was testing that you got where 24 the samples came directly from J & J; is that 25 right? Page 797 1 A Yes, they were part of their historical samples. 2 Q In a court-supervised process with the second 3 round? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And this is from the second round of testing? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q So this is Sample 69042-002, what are we looking at 8 here, and what can you tell us about it, Doctor? 9 A So after the sample was prepared and analyzed 10 for - 11 Q And by prepared, do you mean using what, the Blount 12 heavy liquid? 13 A Yes, the heavy liquid method. 14 Q Okay. Go ahead. 15 A After that preparation, it was found within that 16 sample asbestos structures. So here's an example 17 of an asbestos structure. It appears to be a 18 bundle. This is anthophyllite asbestos. And it 19 has an aspect ratio of 19.7 to 1. Remember, we're 20 talking about -- we're looking for structures that 21 are at least five to one in length -- excuse me, in 22 aspect ratio. So it has the qualifications and all 23 of the specifications for regulated asbestos fiber. 24 Q So let me just see if I understand the math here. 25 MR. FINCH: Can I squat down, Your Honor, so I Page 798 1 can point to this. Sorry. 2 Q Anthophyllite, 35.4 microns by 1.8 microns, is that .4:06 3 the -- the length is 35.4 microns? 4 A Yes. .4:06 5 Q And the width is 1.8 microns? .4:06 6 A Yes, sir. .4:07 7 Q And then you get the aspect ratio by dividing 35.4 .4:07 8 by 1.8? 9 A Yes, sir. .4:07 10 Q So that's where the 19 comes from? .4:07 11 A Yes. .4:07 12 Q So that's Step 1. This has -- that means that this .4:07 13 structure has a morphology consistent with an 14 asbestos fiber? 15 A Yes, sir. .4:07 16 Q Or asbestos bundle? .4:07 17 A Yes. .4:07 18 Q What is -- what are we looking at -- wrong way. .4:07 19 This is another structure identified in that same 20 sample? 21 A Yes, sir. .4:07 22 Q And this one has a length of 6 microns and a width .4:07 23 of .7 microns? 24 A Yes, sir. .4:07 25 Q So what is that aspect ratio? .4:07 Page 799 1 A It's 8.6 to 1. So that, again, also fits the 2 parameter. 3 Q For a regulated asbestos fiber? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q Is this another regulated asbestos -- another 6 structure that meets the morphology parameters for 7 a regulated asbestos fiber? 8 A Yes. This one is anthophyllite, and it measures 9 34.5 by 1.1 micron, and the ratio is 31.4. 10 Q Now, what is a count sheet, when the 11 microscopist -- I assume that the microscopist took 12 the picture of this using the transmission electron 13 microscope when he was analyzing the talc; right? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And did you review all of these photomicrographs 16 and all the count sheets in the testing that your 17 lab did? 18 A Yes. 19 Q We're not going to put the whole report into 20 evidence, but is it thousands and thousands of 21 pages of count sheets and photomicrographs? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And photomicrograph is just a fancy word for 24 photograph? 25 A Yes. Page 800 1 Q So what is a count sheet? And if you could explain 2 to the jury what we're looking at here. 3 A So the requirement by the methodology is that 4 the -- the structures that you find that meet the 5 criteria have to be documented, they have to be 6 measured, and they have to be verified. So what 7 you see here in front of you is an actual count 8 sheet from a laboratory. It has the date of 9 analysis. It has the amount that was analyzed. 10 And then going down the sheet, what it has are the 11 locations of each one of the asbestos structures. 12 Over on the right, you see the sort of copper 13 looking structure that's there. That's actually a 14 grid that is used. It's like a little wire string, 15 if you will, and it's actually made of copper. It 16 has a little film on it, and the sample is on that 17 film. So there's a little higher magnification of 18 it there, and you can see the numbering and the 19 labeling on it, A through J and then 1, 2, 3, 4. 20 And each one of those is a grid square location, 21 each one of those locations, so if you need to go 22 back and find this structure, you can go to this 23 grid and find the exact same spot of where it lies. 24 Q Just to orient the jury in terms of sizes here, am 25 I right, this distance here is 1 millimeter? Page 801 1 A Yes, that's 1 millimeter. 2 Q So this little copper -- what did you say, it was 3 made out of copper? 4 A It's called a grid. 5 Q That little grid is about two-tenths of a 6 millimeter? 7 A No, that scale there is 10 millimeters. 8 Q Excuse me, it's 2 millimeters, it's about - 9 A Yeah, it's about 3. It's about 3. 10 Q And so but in each of these little squares that you 11 look at is a fraction of that? 12 A Yeah, they're about a tenth of a millimeter. 13 Q Okay. And then what -- it looks kind of like a 14 Battle Ship board to me. 15 A Yes. 16 Q But what is the actual sheet on the left here? 17 What do the rows and grid say? What do they say? 18 What do they mean? 19 A Well, what you have on the left is the STR number. 20 That's the structure number. So if a structure is 21 found, it's given a number. You see NSD. That 22 means no structure detected for that particular 23 grid square. So B2-B6 is actually the grid box 24 location that it's put in because it's kept in 25 storage at the laboratory in a box, a small box. Page 802 1 And then what you have is the grid number. And 2 then B6 is the grid square location. So if you 3 went over on there and you looked at B and then 4 went down to 6, you can tell exactly what little 5 square the analyst was looking at. 6 Q And is this a count sheet that shows what, like - :.4:11 7 for example, Structure No. 1 was found in grid B8, 8 that's a bundle of anthophyllite, and it tells you 9 the length, the width, the ratio? 10 A Yes. :.4:11 11 Q And then the little checkmarks, SAED and EDS, are :.4:11 12 those Steps 2 and 3? 13 A Yes, yes. Again, this is just a portion of this :.4:11 14 sheet. Some of the images we saw before, they're 15 on this sheet. I think the highlighted one at the 16 bottom was one of the images that we looked at. 17 Q Okay. :.4 :12 18 A The - :.4 :12 19 Q Sorry. :.4 :12 20 A Oops, sorry. The aspect ratio is calculated there :.4 :12 21 and the X's that are on the sheet show -- it's 22 verified that the analyst looked at the diffraction 23 SAED -- remember we talked about that -- and also 24 the chemistry, the EDS, where X marks the spot is 25 where the analyst did the verification for that. Page 803 1 They actually did that analysis. 2 Q And in your report, you have the average aspect 3 ratio for all of the asbestos structures you 4 identified in this particular sample of Johnson's 5 baby powder? 6 A Yes, yes. And again, that's -- this is important 7 to get the average aspect ratio. You can see the 8 ratios here in the chart. The important part here 9 is, again, are they at least five to one or 10 greater, because what that says is this is an 11 asbestos structure and it meets the specification 12 for it. So you can see the ratio here, the average 13 is about 14. 14 Q Now, in addition to the morphology, you also 15 checked the -- you apply Step 2 and Step 3, you 16 check the chemistry? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Can you walk us through what Step 2 was for the 19 asbestos structures you identified? 20 A Well, each one of them did an EDS, the chemistry, 21 and what you get out of that is a graphic 22 representation. Here we go. And this shows -- the 23 graph is showing the peaks for each one of the 24 elements that are associated with the asbestos 25 structure itself. So you see these peaks that are Page 804 1 on here. One's labeled MG. That's magnesium. One 2 is labeled SI. That's silicon. One is labeled FE. 3 That's iron. And then you see some other peaks 4 that are on here. They're associated with the 5 actual grid, the copper grid itself, so they're not 6 labeled. 7 Q So this is the -- I don't exactly remember all the .4:14 8 abbreviations from the periodic table of elements 9 from high school. 10 A Yes. .4:14 11 Q But like SI is silicon; is that right? .4:14 12 A Yes. .4:14 13 Q And this shows the relative ratio of silicon. And .4:14 14 what is that? 15 A Magnesium. .4:14 16 Q Magnesium? .4:14 17 A Yes. .4:14 18 Q And then, I guess, FE that's -- .4:14 19 A Iron. .4:14 20 Q -- ferrous, iron? .4:14 21 A That's iron. .4:14 22 Q Do you compare this chemical readout to a known .4:14 23 reference standard for either anthophyllite or 24 tremolite or other known asbestos? 25 A Yes. We have reference standards in the .4:14 Page 805 1 laboratories required by the agencies that you keep 2 those references, and then you compare them. 3 Q Now, Step 3, explain how Step 3 is applied to the 4 structures identified. 5 A Okay. Step 3, while you're doing this, essentially 6 you're looking at the structure, just like you saw 7 the picture of it here, in real time you're looking 8 at it. And what the analyst will do, they'll take 9 the electron beam and they can move the beam into a 10 little spot and they can put it right on that 11 structure. And when they do that - 12 Q Is this an example of that? 13 A Yes, yes. When they do that, they will get the 14 pattern. Remember we talked about the breaking up 15 of light through a prism and you get the colors. 16 When you run electrons through an asbestos or 17 crystalline structure, you're going to get a 18 pattern, and it looks very much like this, like the 19 little dots that you see here. And those dots, if 20 you measure between them, they're the actual 21 distance between the atoms in the asbestos 22 structure itself. 23 So we can take these patterns and we can look 24 at them, and then we can tell exactly what it is. 25 Q Okay. Am I correct that the chemical formula for Page 806 1 anthophyllite is very similar or the same as the 2 chemical formula for talc? 3 A Yes, it can be. 4 Q How do you distinguish between talc and 5 anthophyllite asbestos when you are doing this 6 analysis? Which of these three steps does that? 7 A They both can have similar ratios of magnesium and 8 silicon, the first two big pieces that you saw in 9 that one chart. Now, they can have some amount of 10 iron or very little iron. So - 11 Q This is the peaks you were talking about before? 12 A Yes, yes. So that iron, that iron peak that you 13 have seen there can be very low. So once you look 14 at the chemistry, you go, well, this could be talc 15 or it could be anthophyllite. Now, you've already 16 looked at it and see that it's a long rod. Talc, 17 in products like the Johnson & Johnson baby powder, 18 is mostly, practically all flat plates. The talc 19 that's in there, they look like little flat plates, 20 like little tiles everywhere. 21 Now, there is talc that exists as fibers. 22 It's fibrous talc. So when you're looking at a 23 fiber, you've got to make sure it's not fibrous 24 talc. You want to see if it is asbestos. Now, the 25 funny thing is, the interesting thing is, some Page 807 1 asbestos types can form talc from talc. They can 2 be transitional, what they call transitional. On 3 one end they can be asbestos, on the other end they 4 can be talc. So what the analyst has to do is they 5 have to take this technique with the spots that you 6 see and they have to actually tilt the little fiber 7 structure. And when you start tilting it a little 8 bit, if this pattern changes from spots to what 9 looks like little hexagonal, it looks like a little 10 six spots in a - 11 Q Is that an example of the hexagon you're talking 12 about? 13 A Yes, yes. That's indicative of talc right there. 14 So when we're looking at that structure, we would 15 say that that was a talc structure. It'll have the 16 same chemistry as anthophyllite. So we have to 17 look at it and check that. 18 Q Okay. So this particular structure we're looking 19 at, when the analysts rotated the structure around, 20 you have two different diffraction patterns; is 21 that right? 22 A Yes, but the spots remain the same and the 23 measurements between the spots will remain the 24 same. So for true anthophyllite, there's a 25 distance, and they will stay the same. But if I Page 808 1 rotate them and I start to see this six-point 2 pattern, then I've got either talc on one end and 3 asbestos on the other end, maybe anthophyllite on 4 the other end, or I've just got a talc fiber. So 5 that's something that has to be always checked with 6 anthophyllite, and we do that. 7 Q And so does this slide sort of lay out the 8 three-step method that you applied -- that you 9 applied to identify anthophyllite asbestos in 10 Johnson's baby powder? 11 MR. BICKS: Your Honor, can I just object and 12 ask that we be precise about "we," because there's 13 a lot of testimony about "we" did something. I 14 would request that the witness make it clear who's 15 actually doing things. 16 THE COURT: I'll sustain that objection. 17 BY MR. FINCH: 18 Q Okay. Explain what this three-step -- what this 19 slide shows, Dr. Rigler. 20 A It shows that -- for this particular structure, it 21 showed the morphology was consistent with asbestos. 22 That is the shape and the form, the aspect ratio. 23 It showed that the chemistry was consistent with an 24 asbestos-type anthophyllite. And then when the 25 diffraction was done, it also showed that it was Page 809 1 consistent with anthophyllite. And in science, we 2 like to measure things multiple different ways to 3 get the answer. If we can measure it in multiple 4 ways, we can get a very good answer like that. 5 Q Doctor, I probably should have asked you this at 19 6 the outset. But would you agree that any opinion 7 you're giving to this jury is to a reasonable 8 degree of scientific certainty? 9 A Yes. 20 10 Q Has that been the case for all of your answers up 20 11 to this point? 12 A Yes. 20 13 Q And will that be the case for the rest of the day? 20 14 A Yes. 20 15 Q And including, if you come back next week, would 20 16 that be the case then? 17 A Yes. 20 18 Q So does the EPA have specific recording rules for 20 19 what you have to count as regulated asbestos? 20 A Yes. 20 21 Q Could you explain that to the jury. 20 22 A Well, again, it's nothing new. We talked about it 20 23 a little bit earlier. It's more of the same thing, 24 which is in this case the aspect ratio needs to be 25 at least five to one for the AHERA/EPA. And OSHA Page 810 1 as three to one. So that's their rule. So you 2 would count even more than they may be smaller. So 3 that's their rule. 4 The length needs to be at least a half a 5 micron in length. And then you have to record all 6 of these things on a count sheet. You've already 7 seen the laboratory, it has a count sheet, and you 8 have to record those things. 9 They also, and we talked about this a little 10 bit earlier on, have to be recorded as fibers, 11 bundles, what they call clusters, little matrices. 12 These are groups of asbestos fibers together. 13 Now, if you saw a group of them together like 14 this, let's say all my fingers were fibers and they 15 were looking like this, you would call that a 16 cluster. But technically, by their rules, you have 17 to call that one structure. So there may be ten 18 there, but we have to call that one. So that would 19 be an underestimate of how many are really there. 20 But by their rules, that's the way we have to call 21 them. 22 Q Do the regulations also have a definition of what 23 is not asbestos? 24 A Yes, it does. 25 Q What is that? Page 811 1 A If you can't get a good chemistry or the chemistry :.4:21 2 does not match up for the asbestos, then it's not 3 going to be -- it's not even going to be on the 4 count sheet. 5 If you do a diffraction pattern of it and it's :.4:21 6 something that's completely different or you have 7 spots that are difficult to read, then it may not 8 also be -- if a morphology is, you know, less than 9 three to one, definitely not. 10 Q We talked about EPA/AHERA, ISO 22262, and the ASTM. 1.4 :22 11 Have you also had the opportunity to look at 12 Johnson & Johnson's specifications for using 13 transmission electron microscopes to analyze talc 14 for the determination of asbestos? 15 A Yes. 1.4 :22 16 MR. FINCH: And Your Honor, at this time we 1.4 :22 17 would offer Plaintiffs' Exhibit 38. I believe it's 18 a stipulated exhibit. 19 MR. BICKS: No objection. 1.4 :22 20 THE COURT: The Court shows Exhibit 38 1.4 :22 21 admitted without objection. 22 Q Dr. Rigler -- oops, wrong way. 1.4 :23 23 MR. FINCH: Can I go to the ELMO, Jon. 1.4 :23 24 Q This is Johnson & Johnson Consumer Companies 1.4 :23 25 Worldwide Specification TM7024. We happened to Page 812 1 mark it as Plaintiffs' 38. Are you familiar with 2 this document? 3 A Yes, sir. 1.4 :23 4 Q Method 7024, is that what Johnson & Johnson called 1.4 :23 5 its electron microscope method for analyzing talc 6 for asbestos? 7 A Yes. 1.4 :23 8 Q Were there versions of this that go back sometime 1.4 :23 9 to the mid 1970s? 10 A I believe there are, yes. There are three 1.4 :23 11 versions, I believe. 12 Q This one says 1995 on it? 1.4 :23 13 A Yes. 1.4 :23 14 Q Am I correct that Johnson & Johnson never used the 1.4:24 15 Blount heavy liquid separation method to test its 16 talc for asbestos, generally speaking? 17 MR. BICKS: Objection on the foundation 1.4:24 18 grounds, Your Honor. 19 Q Have you reviewed Johnson & Johnson's testing 1.4:24 20 protocols - 21 THE COURT: So I'll sustain - 1.4:24 22 A -- for testing talc? 1.4:24 23 THE COURT: I'll sustain that. But you're 1.4:24 24 asking - 25 Q Have you reviewed Johnson & Johnson's testing 1.4:24 Page 813 1 protocols for testing talc for the presence of 2 asbestos? 3 A Yes. 1.4:24 4 Q And this is one of those documents, and you've seen 1.4:24 5 earlier versions of this? 6 A Yes. 1.4:24 7 Q In anywhere in this document, does it require or 1.4:24 8 talk about using the Blount or any kind of heavy 9 liquid density separation method? 10 A No. 1.4:24 11 Q Does the Johnson & Johnson - 1.4:24 12 MR. FINCH: Can I go back to the PowerPoint, 1.4:24 13 Jon. 14 Q Does the Johnson & Johnson TM7024 method have a 1.4:24 15 definition of what is an asbestos fiber? 16 A Yes, it did. 1.4:24 17 Q What is it? 1.4:24 18 A An elongated particle with parallel sides and an 1.4:25 19 aspect ratio of three to one. 20 Q And the definition employed may vary with the needs 1.4:25 21 of the client? 22 A Yes. 1.4:25 23 MR. FINCH: May I have Exhibit P-196. 1.4:25 24 Q We'll come back to Exhibit 38 later, but I want to 1.4:25 25 ask you about another Johnson & Johnson document. Page 814 1 MR. FINCH: We would offer Plaintiffs' 196, 1.4:25 2 Your Honor. I believe this is another stipulated 3 exhibit. 4 MR. BICKS: What is it? 1.4:25 5 MR. FINCH: It's -- I just gave the witness my 1.4:25 6 copy. Do you have any objection to it? 7 MR. BICKS: Can you just let me know what it 1.4:25 8 is? 9 MR. FINCH: Yeah. I thought we gave you 1.4:25 10 copies before break. Sorry. 11 MR. BICKS: No, that's all right. No 1.4:25 12 objection. 13 THE COURT: The Court shows Plaintiffs' 1.4:2 6 14 Exhibit 196 admitted without objection. 15 MR. FINCH: And can I have the ELMO, Jon. 1.4:2 6 16 BY MR. FINCH: 1.4:2 6 17 Q This is a document dated January 10, 1994, and it's 1.4:26 18 a summary of raw material and finished product 19 testing for baby powder, talc; is that right, 20 Dr. Rigler? 21 A Yes, sir. 1.4:2 6 22 MR. FINCH: And Jon, can I go back to the 1.4:2 6 23 PowerPoint. 24 Q In Exhibit 196, is there a definition of asbestos 1.4:2 6 25 in this document? Page 815 1 A Yes. 2 Q What is Johnson & Johnson's definition of asbestos 3 in this 1994 document? 1.4 : 2 6 1.4 : 2 6 4 A "Asbestos is defined to be the fibrous serpentine, 1.4:26 5 chrysotile and the fibrous forms of amphibole group 6 as represented by amosite, anthophyllite, 7 crocidolite, tremolite and actinolite." 8 Typo in anthophyllite. 1.4:27 9 Q No one's perfect, right, not even Johnson & 1.4:27 10 Johnson. 11 MR. FINCH: The next exhibit is Exhibit 386, 1.4:27 12 which I believe is another stipulated exhibit. We 13 would offer that. 14 THE COURT: Thank you. 1.4:27 15 MR. BICKS: Can I just quickly see? 1.4:27 16 MR. FINCH: Yeah. 1.4:27 17 MR. BICKS: No problem. 1.4:27 18 THE COURT: The Court shows Plaintiffs' 1.4:27 19 Exhibit 386 admitted without objection. 20 Q Am I correct that Exhibit 386 lays out - 21 MR. FINCH: Can I have the PowerPoint, Jon. 1.4:27 1.4:2 8 22 Q -- Johnson & Johnson's three-step method to 23 identify asbestos in talc? 1.4:2 8 24 A Yes. 1.4:2 8 25 Q This is a document entitled "Analysis of Powdered 1.4:2 8 Page 816 1 Talc for Asbestiform Minerals by Transmission 2 Electron Microscopy dated 1989." 3 A Yes. 1.4:2 8 4 Q And under -- on the first page, "Principle of 1.4:2 8 5 Method, The combined techniques of transmission 6 electron microscope, selected area diffraction and 7 energy dispersive x-ray analysis (EDXRA) permit the 8 detection of asbestiform minerals based on 9 morphological characteristics, followed by 10 definitive mineralogical identification of each 11 fiber." 12 Is that the three-step process for identifying 1.4:28 13 asbestos? 14 A Yes. 1.4:2 8 15 Q Does this document also have a definition of an 1.4:2 8 16 asbestos fiber, at least according to Johnson & 17 Johnson for its own business purposes? 18 A Yes, it does. 1.4:29 19 Q In Section 13.1, which is on page -- the Bates page 1.4:29 20 is 7922, how does Johnson & Johnson define an 21 asbestos fiber? 22 A An elongated particle with parallel sides and an 1.4:29 23 aspect ratio greater than or equal to three to one. 24 Q How does that aspect ratio compare to the aspect 1.4:29 25 ratio that MAS used? Page 817 1 A It's less conservative. You would find that more 1.4:2 9 2 structures would fit into that ratio. 3 Q More structures would fit into the definition of 4 asbestos? 1.4:2 9 5 A Yes, exactly. And the one for AHERA that MAS uses 1.4:2 9 6 is more conservative. 7 Q With respect to the five-to-one aspect ratio, 8 length to width, in addition to your own paper and 1.4:2 9 9 the EPA regulations and the ISO procedures in the 10 Johnson & Johnson documents, is there other 11 peer-reviewed literature that discusses the 12 five-to-one aspect ratio? 13 A Yes. 1.4:3 0 14 Q Are you familiar with a microscopist named Jim 1.4:3 0 15 Millette? 16 A Yes, sir. 1.4:3 0 17 Q Dr. Millette is a published author. Did he 1.4:3 0 18 recommend using the five-to-one aspect ratio? 19 A Yes. 1.4:3 0 20 Q Now, for this sample of 69042-02, the 1978 1.4:3 0 21 Johnson's baby powder sample that you got from 22 Johnson & Johnson, did you do an analysis of how 23 many asbestos structures per gram were detected in 24 that bottle? 25 A Yes. That was done, yes. 1.4:3 0 Page 818 1 MR. BICKS: Again, Your Honor, can we just be :.4:31 2 clear about who did what? He said he did it. 3 Q Did you do a mathematical calculation that took the :.4:31 4 data recorded by the analysts to determine how many 5 asbestos fibers or bundles were in a nine-ounce 6 bottle; did you do that last night? 7 A I have done a calculation like that, yes. :.4:31 8 Q And the analysts at MAS recorded the asbestos :.4:31 9 structures following the government rules; is that 10 right? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q So what are we looking at here? 13 A This is a calculation of the number of asbestos :.4:31 :.4:31 :.4:31 14 structures that were found in this product per gram 15 of talc, 63,800 asbestos structures per gram. 16 Q And what does that mean in terms of asbestos fibers : .4 :31 17 or bundles in a nine-ounce bottle of Johnson's baby 18 powder? 19 A That means that if you take that number of 1.4 :32 20 structures per gram and you look at 9 ounces here, 21 28.35 grams per ounce, that would be 1,000,880 22 structures per ounce, totaling 16,278,570 asbestos 23 structures in that particular bottle there based on 24 its weight. 25 Q Now, you mentioned earlier -- 1.4 :32 Page 819 1 MR. FINCH: Can I have another piece of blank 2 paper. 3 Can I have the ELMO, Jon. 4 Q Okay. So when you're talking about asbestos 5 structures, what is that, Dr. Rigler? 6 A That would be a cluster. 7 Q What would that be? 8 A Those would be -- they would be single fibers or 9 you could say they were a bundle if they were 10 closer together like that. 11 Q But if they're like this - 12 A That would be a bundle. 13 Q And then this would be a fiber? 14 A Yes. 15 Q So when you are calculating the fibers or bundles 16 in a nine-ounce bottle, if some of the structures 17 identified are bundles, say they're bundles instead 18 of fibers, what would that mean in terms of total 19 number of asbestos fibers in that gram or in that 20 nine-ounce bottle? 21 A Well, as I explained before, if the analysts saw a 22 cluster, it would only be counted as one. But if 23 it truly has ten structures there, you've 24 undercounted it by ten just to start with. So the 25 number could be much higher. But those are the Page 820 1 rules that we have to go by. 2 MR. FINCH: Can I have the PowerPoint, Jon. 1.4:34 3 Q Now, is this another sample of Johnson's baby 1.4:34 4 powder from the mid to late 1970s that the MAS lab 5 tested that you reviewed? 6 A Yes. 1.4:34 7 Q What are we looking at here? 1.4:34 8 A This is an asbestos structure that was found in 1.4:34 9 that talc product. This is what's called a 10 ferro-anthophyllite. This is a high iron 11 anthophyllite asbestos type. 12 Q And what is this? 13 A Same thing, another one of the structures. This is 14 a good example of a bundle. You can see the very 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 15 ends of it appear to be groups of fibers packed 16 together. So that would be a bundle. The size is 17 16.4 microns by 2.6 microns. 18 Q And the 2.6 microns, that's from here to here? 19 A Yes, that's the width. 20 Q And there could be, it looks like there's many, 21 many fibers - 22 A Yes. 23 Q -- that make up that bundle? 24 A Yes. 25 Q So am I correct that the -- each fiber that goes 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 Page 821 1 into that bundle would obviously be much, much 2 thinner than 2.6 microns? 3 A Yes, and the aspect ratio would be much, much 4 higher. 1.4:3 5 5 Q What are we looking at here, Doctor? 6 A Another structure from that sample, another 7 ferro-anthophyllite structure, another bundle. 1.4:3 5 1.4:3 5 8 Q Another asbestos bundle? 1.4:3 6 9 A Yes. 1.4:3 6 10 Q And this is 68233002-002. 1.4:3 6 11 A Yes. 1.4:3 6 12 Q What is this, Doctor? 1.4:3 6 13 A That's the one we just saw before, a little 1.4:3 6 14 earlier. The designation 002, 002 is the second 15 structure that was found in this -- in this 16 analysis right here. 17 Q Do you have some pictures of that same bundle taken 1.4:36 18 with a scanning electron microscope? 19 A Yes. 1.4:3 6 20 Q So what are we looking at here? 1.4:3 6 21 A So here we have the -- this is the exact same 1.4:3 6 22 fiber, only looking at it with a scanning electron 23 microscope. Remember we talked about the fact that 24 each one of us can see each other because the light 25 is reflecting off of us. Well, the principle of Page 822 1 the scanning electron microscope is somewhat same. 2 The electrons are bouncing off, and the microscope 3 sees them more in three dimensions. So you can see 4 the actual bundling here and the fibers clearly, 5 actually more than compared to the TEM picture. 6 Q And do we have progressively closer magnification 1.4:37 7 of this asbestos bundle using scanning electron 8 microscope? 9 A Yes. This is a higher magnification of the same 1.4:37 10 thing, of the one end of the structure, the right 11 side of it, yes. And then this is more looking 12 down the length of it. And as you can see, lots of 13 fibers in this bundle. 14 Q And if we get even closer, what do we see here and 1.4:37 15 why is it significant? 16 A Yeah. You can see more of the actual fibers 1.4:37 17 themselves that make up this bundle, what's called 18 asbestiform ferro-anthophyllite. It's a very - 19 it's a beautiful image as far as microscopist is 20 concerned. So, yeah, it's a very good picture of 21 that. 22 Q Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 1.4:3 8 23 A Yes, yeah. 24 Q And then what are we looking at here, this curved 1.4:3 8 1.4:3 8 25 image? Page 823 1 A That's another one of the structures that is part 1.4:3 8 2 of this, and it does show you that you have 3 curvature, which again was one of the -- one of the 4 things that was suggested for a more -- a larger or 5 a bulk size piece of asbestos. They can be curved. 6 The fibers can be curved and flexible and all of 7 this. And sometimes you'll see them like this. 8 They're part of the bundle, as you can see, but 9 they'll be sort of lying at angles on top of the 10 bundle or in the area of the bundle. 11 Q What does it mean for a bundle to have splayed 1.4:3 8 12 ends? 13 A That, again, was the first picture that you saw, 1.4:3 8 14 sort of like my fingers, that's what you considered 15 splayed. They're just sort of spread out. 16 Q Is this -- which picture are you referring to? 17 A The very first one, yes. Up in -- yeah, on the 1.4:3 9 1.4:3 9 18 right-hand side. 19 Q Oh, this? 20 A In that area, yes. 21 Q That's an example of splayed ends? 22 A Yeah. And you can see it real well in the TEM too. 23 Q That would be - 24 A Right, right. It shows you the splayed ends there. 1.4:3 9 1.4:3 9 1.4:3 9 1.4:3 9 1.4:3 9 1.4:3 9 25 And the reason, again, the structure looks very Page 824 1 dark, because the electrons essentially get stopped 2 in the structure, except for the ends where it's 3 thin enough to go through. So that's part of the 4 thing with TEM, is the specimen needs to be very 5 small and thin so you can see it. But with the 6 SEM, you can see everything. But, again, the SEM, 7 you can't do the crystallinity measurement, you 8 can't do that. So that's why the TEM is very 9 important. 10 Q Now, with this particular sample, for everything 11 that was identified by morphology as asbestos, was 1.4:3 9 12 it also identified by chemistry and by the - 13 A Diffraction. 1.4:40 14 Q -- diffraction? 1.4:40 15 A Yes. 1.4:40 16 Q And this is an example from that same sample of the 1.4:40 17 chemical signature of anthophyllite asbestos? 18 A Yes. This is the first fiber that was found in 1.4:40 19 there, and it shows you the magnesium and silicone 20 piece that are there and also the iron peak that's 21 there. It's indicative of this type of asbestos. 22 Q And this is the - 1.4:40 23 A Diffraction pattern. 24 Q -- diffraction pattern? 1.4:40 1.4:40 25 A Yes, sir. 1.4:40 Page 825 1 Q And for this particular 1978 museum sample, did you 1.4:40 2 also calculate the average aspect ratio for the 3 asbestos bundles or fibers found in that bottle 4 of -- that sample of Johnson's baby powder? 5 A Yes. And it came out to 19.4. 1.4:40 6 Q Again, why is that significant? 14:41 7 A Again, above three to one, five to one, that's when 1 4 :4 1 8 you -- these are considered asbestiform structures. 9 So that's important. They get down below, you 10 know, three to one, you get to two to one and 11 smaller than that, then they're just big chunks 12 that, you know, they're not qualified as the 13 asbestiform asbestos. They don't meet the 14 regulatory definition. 15 Q Is this another sample of Johnson's baby powder you 1 4 :4 1 16 got from the company from 1984 time frame? 17 A Yes. 14:41 18 Q And what are we looking at here? 14:41 19 A This is another anthophyllite asbestos structure 14:41 20 that was found in that talc product. It's 21 measuring 9.89 by .46 microns. So it's a bundle. 22 Q Now, here we have a picture that looks -- from this 14:42 23 sample looks a little bit different. What is this? 24 What kind of tool was used to take it? What is 25 important about it? That's a bunch of questions. Page 826 1 A Sure. 1.4:42 2 Q But why don't you first tell us what kind of tool 1.4:42 3 was used to take it, and then we'll take it step by 4 step. 5 A If you remember earlier today we saw the light 1.4:42 6 microscope, the PLM, the polarizing light 7 microscope. This is from that kind of microscope 8 whereby the sample is prepared in a specific type 9 of fluid that has a refractive index that's used 10 for assessing asbestos structures. And when you 11 put that kind of sample in that fluid and then you 12 take polarizing filters and you cross them, you 13 will get a certain amount of light through them, 14 which will indicate a particular kind of asbestos 15 type. 16 And in this particular case, it's what we call 1.4:42 17 actinolite/tremolite. You see there's two words 18 put together. There are two different types of 19 asbestos, but in the ground, and in geology, they 20 grade one into the other. So you can see them 21 sometimes together in certain geological 22 formations, and they're all what's called a solid 23 solution series. So one may braid into the other 24 one. So they can be named actinolite/tremolite. 25 Q What does the polarizing light microscope allow you 1.4:43 Page 827 1 sometimes to do in analyzing a material to 2 determine if there's asbestos in it? 3 A It can also help you determine if it's not there. 1.4:43 4 You can also see in this image, there are other 5 structures that are in here. Most likely they're 6 platy talc, because it is a talc sample. So they 7 will show up in a way that is unique for them too. 8 Q What are we looking at here? 1.4:43 9 A This is, again, in the same kind of microscope, 1.4:43 10 polarizing light microscope. They used another 11 kind of technique called dispersion staining with 12 this, and this is where they use a special kind of 13 lens that allows a certain wavelength of light 14 through. 15 And then when you look at that asbestos in 1.4:44 16 there, the one we looked at before, same one, kind 17 of looks gray in the first one, in this one, it 18 will look blue. And it depends on the angle that 19 you rotate the asbestos in there, and it will be 20 distinctive for the kind of asbestos that it is. 21 It may go from blue to yellow, and that's part of 22 the PLM analysis process for asbestos. 23 Q Now, with respect to this 1984 Johnson's baby 1.4:44 24 powder sample, was there also -- was there a count 25 sheet that recorded the information about the Page 828 1 dimensions of the asbestos fiber and whether it met 2 both -- all three steps? 3 A Yes, there was, of course, yes. 1.4:44 4 Q Is that true for every structure that was 1.4:44 5 identified in the samples? 6 A Yes, sir. 1.4:45 7 Q What was the average aspect ratio for this 1.4:45 8 particular sample of Johnson's baby powder from 9 1984? 10 A It shows it to be 11.5. When you take the 21.5, 1.4:45 11 the 5.4, and 7.5, you make -- take the average of 12 those, and you get 11.5. 13 Q Now, you mentioned before that when you do an 1.4:45 14 analysis of a fiber to determine if it's chemically 15 the same as asbestos, to compare it to a known 16 reference. 17 Do you recall that? 1.4:45 18 A Yes. 1.4:45 19 Q Remind us, what is the NIST and where did the known 1.4:45 20 references come from? 21 A NIST is the National Institute for Standards and 1.4:45 22 Testing in Washington, D.C. They are the ones who 23 oversee the programs for the asbestos analysis 24 laboratories, the NVLAP, National Voluntary 25 Laboratory Program. And what they do is they have Page 829 1 their own standard sample of asbestos, and here you 2 see a picture of it. This is what's called the 3 1867 standard. It's pure tremolite asbestos that's 4 in that vial right there. 5 And so the laboratories are required to keep a 1.4:46 6 sample of this, and then what they do is they go 7 make a TEM grid of this sample. They put it in the 8 electron microscope, and then they'll look at those 9 asbestos fibers and structures and be sure that the 10 lab is complying with this standard. 11 Q Does the reference standard have the chemistry, the 1.4:46 12 EDXA? 13 A Yes. 1.4:46 14 Q Is this an example of the reference standard for 1.4:46 15 tremolite? 16 A Yes. In this panel you see two micrographs that 1.4:46 17 each show a tremolite fiber, asbestos fiber from 18 that standard, from this standard. The top one 19 measures, what is it, 20.2., and the bottom one 20 measures 5.5. They have the correct aspect ratio. 21 And then on the right side, you can see the 1.4:47 22 chemistry. And in this case, for tremolite, 23 tremolite also has the magnesium and the silicone 24 peak, you can see that. But it also has a calcium 25 peak, which goes right around with the chemistry of Page 830 1 what tremolite is. It has a little bit of iron. 2 It can vary depending on the geological deposits. 3 So there is the EDS. On the left, you've got 4 the morphology of it, the shape and structure and 5 the correct aspect ratio, and then on the right, 6 you've got chemistry. 7 Q In addition to the chemistry signature for the 8 reference standards, is there also an SAED, it 9 would be a crystalline structure standard? 10 A Yes. So here again, the same two images, same two 11 structures, and what the microscopist has done is 12 set it up to do the diffraction. And you see in 13 this case the diffraction pattern, which are the 14 pattern lines and spots. And again, if you went 15 and measured the inter-row spacing, you would get 16 the dimensions for the amphibole tremolite. If you 17 rotated this like we had talked about before for 18 anthophyllite, that pattern will not change. It 19 may adjust a little bit, but it would still look 20 like the same kind of pattern. 21 Q And did the analysts in your laboratory when you 22 were at MAS compare each chemical signature and 23 each crystalline structure to a known reference 24 when they were doing the analysis in real time with 25 the talc? Page 831 1 A There -- yes and no for that answer. They can rely 1.4 : 4 8 2 on the chemistry and the diffraction, of course, 3 and the morphology to verify that. The standards 4 are checked periodically, and when the analysts 5 are -- when the auditors come, they have to 6 demonstrate their proficiency in being able to 7 obtain these patterns and do the chemistry. So 8 they're tested on that by the auditors. 9 Q Are you familiar -- you've talked about morphology. 1.4:49 10 When you described for the jury bundles and fibers, 11 was that just your definition, or is that out there 12 in the published literature and in the regulations? 13 A That's in the published literature and the 1.4:49 14 regulations. That's not our -- we have to follow 15 those definitions. That's part of what we have to 16 do, or the laboratory has to do. 17 Q Are you familiar with a publication by the Bureau 1.4:49 18 of Mines from 1977, lead author Campbell, entitled 19 "Selected Silicate Minerals and Their Asbestiform 20 Varieties: Mineralogical Definitions for 21 Identification and Characterization"? 22 A Yes. 1.4:49 23 Q Do you regard that as generally reliable and 1.4:49 24 authoritative on the question of whether something 25 is asbestos or not asbestos? Page 832 1 A Yes, sir. 1.4:50 2 Q And does this publication have pictures that allow 1.4:50 3 you to describe or show you asbestiform versus 4 things that aren't asbestiform? 5 A Yes, it does. And you can see from the different 1.4:50 6 types of structures that are here, they are 7 described as asbestiform. And the structures that 8 you see here, remember we had talked about 9 different gradations in a geological deposit, you 10 can have combinations of these and mixtures of 11 these. So defined pure deposits is kind of a 12 misnomer to some degree because they're all 13 somewhat blended together. 14 Q And in the same publication, do they have a map of 1.4:50 15 the regions in the United States reported by the 16 Environmental Protection Agency to contain 17 asbestiform minerals in the bedrocks? 18 A Yes. :.4:51 19 Q Is that that map? :.4:51 20 A Yes. That shows regions in the United States where 14:51 21 asbestiform minerals occur, across the hatching 22 patterns. 23 Q Does an asbestiform mineral generally mean 14:51 24 asbestos? 25 A Yes. 14:51 Page 833 1 Q Is the state of Vermont on that map? 14:51 2 A Yes. 14:51 3 Q Dr. Blount, the Rutgers scientist that the jury's 14:51 4 heard a little bit about in opening -- they've seen 5 a couple of documents -- did she publish in her 6 1991 paper a discussion of the morphology of 7 asbestos structures? 8 A Yes. 14:51 9 Q And what did Dr. Blount say about the morphology 14:51 10 discussed with these structures? 11 A In her paper, she states that if it's in a bundle, 14:51 12 that it appears to be in a bundle form, it's 13 definitely asbestiform. 14 Q Is the exact quote, "With true asbestiform 1.4:52 15 amphiboles, one generally sees some particles 16 showing bundles of fibrils which removes any doubt 17 about the nature of the amphibole"? 18 A Yes. 1.4:52 19 Q Does ISO 22262-1, one of the ISOs that you rely on, 1.4:52 20 have a description or a discussion of the things - 21 what to look for to determine if fibers are, in 22 fact, asbestiform? 23 A Yes. 1.4:52 24 Q What does ISO 22262-1 say about that? 1.4:52 25 A Well, as you can see in the outline here, there are 1.4:52 Page 834 1 five characteristics, parallel fibers occurring in 2 bundles; fiber bundles displayed -- displaying 3 splayed ends, which we've already talked about; 4 fibers also in the form of thin needles; matted 5 masses of individual fibers, we talked about those. 6 You know, cross your hands. You know what those 7 are. And also fibers that show curvature, and we 8 saw an example of that too. 9 Q This is an asbestos fiber bundle found in Johnson's 10 baby powder? 11 A Yes. 12 Q This is the image we looked at before showing the 13 splayed ends? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And the curvature? 16 A Yes. 17 MR. FINCH: May I approach briefly, Your 18 Honor. 19 THE COURT: Yes. 20 (A bench conference was held outside the 21 hearing of the jury.) 22 MR. FINCH: I don't think I'm going to finish 23 with him today, but I would like to take stretch 24 break or something. The jury's getting a little 25 bit -- Page 835 1 THE COURT: Yes, I was just thinking about 1.4:53 2 doing that. 3 MR. FINCH: Would it be okay to do that now? 1.4:53 4 THE COURT: Yes. 1.4:53 5 (Resumption of live trial proceedings.) 1.4:53 6 THE COURT: We're going to go off the record 1.4:53 7 for a couple minutes to give the jury a chance to 8 stand up, have all of this -- just take a break for 9 a moment. As I said yesterday, we were going to 10 end a little bit early today, and this'll give us a 11 chance to keep going without losing too much time. 12 (A brief recess was taken.) 13 THE COURT: Mr. Finch, you may begin. 14 MR. FINCH: May it please the Court. 15 BY MR. FINCH: 16 Q Last lap for today. 17 Dr. Rigler, let's talk about the total amount 18 of testing that your laboratory did of Johnson's 1.4:57 1.4:5 9 1.4:5 9 1.4:5 9 1.4:5 9 1.4:5 9 19 baby powder. And does this chart lay out the sort 20 of -- the two rounds of Johnson & Johnson testing 21 and also some testing you did of a cosmetic talc 22 product called Cashmere Bouquet? 23 MR. BICKS: Your Honor, again, the question 24 was that you did. And if we could just be clear 1.4:5 9 25 about what he did versus what others did. Page 836 1 THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection. 2 Q Could you explain for us the testing that was done 3 at MAS while you were the chief scientist there in 4 2017 through 2019 of Johnson's baby powder or 5 Cashmere Bouquet? 6 A Yes. This is representative of the samples that 7 were tested of Johnson's baby powder samples and 8 also Colgate-Palmolive Cashmere Bouquet samples. 9 Q Okay. So walk us through this chart here, 10 Dr. Rigler. 11 A Well, what we see here are three groups of testing 12 that the laboratory did. The label Round 1 is 13 testing that was done in 2017 through 2018. The 14 ore, the source of the ore talc material was from 15 Italy, Vermont, and also from China. So the 16 containers that were tested at the laboratory, the 17 source of the talc was from those locations, and 18 there were 36 of them. 19 The prep method that was used was the heavy 20 liquid density prep method, as you see there, and 21 also the TEM method was used. 22 Then in Round 2 - 23 Q And the source of the containers tested, it says, 24 "Client samples, eBay/collector samples." What 25 does that mean? Page 837 1 A Yes. These were samples that were brought into the 2 lab, and the source materials came from collectors, 3 if you will. They're all kinds of collectors in 4 the world, all kinds of things, as you well know. 5 In fact, in the Kent cigarette case, I was amazed 6 to find at the beginning there were all kinds of 7 people that collect unopened cigarette packs. 8 They're out there. 9 So, of course, that was our objective, where 10 to get unopened cigarette packs for the testing we 11 did, and we were able to do that. So those are 12 some of the collector sources. 13 Q What's Round 2? 14 A Round 2 is another group of samples. These 15 included the archived or what are called historical 16 samples from Johnson & Johnson. Again, they were 17 sourced from Italian mines, Vermont mines, and also 18 from mines in China. 57 of those were done. They 19 were prepped in the same fashion, and PLM 20 microscopy was also done in addition to the TEM 21 that you see here. 22 And in the last group that you see labeled 23 Colgate-Palmolive, these were talc products named 24 Cashmere Bouquet. You may remember some of those 25 products if you have folks in your family that used Page 838 1 them or folks that you know that may have used 2 them. Their source material came from -- also from 3 Italian mines, but other mines such as in North 4 Carolina and Montana. So talc was also sourced 5 from those areas. 6 They came from the archive, the Colgate 7 archives and also from collectors too. And we 8 analyzed 15 of those. They again were prepared in 9 the exact same way and analyzed in the exact same 10 way. 11 Q And it says, "15 sealed (Italian)," is that of the 12 Italian, North Carolina, and Montana, there were 15 13 that came from Italy? 14 A Yes, they were factory sealed. They actually had 15 the wrapper sealed onto them. 16 Q I don't think there's any dispute about this, 17 but - 18 MR. FINCH: May I have the ELMO, Jon. 19 Q -- is this consistent with your understanding that 20 the places that Johnson & Johnson got its talc 21 sources for were -- up to about 1967 were from 22 Italy, from 1967 to 2003 were Vermont, and then 23 from 2004ish to now is China? 24 A Yes, that's correct. I think there was a year in 25 the '60s where some was also sourced I think Page 839 1 from -- possibly from Italy too for a short period 2 of time. But yeah, generally this is correct. 3 Q Now, for the first round - 4 MR. FINCH: Can I go back to the PowerPoint, 5 Jon. 6 Q The first round of the Johnson & Johnson containers 7 tested, these obviously didn't come directly from 8 Johnson & Johnson; right? 9 A Correct. 10 Q And -- well, we're missing a slide. 11 MR. FINCH: Can I have the ELMO, Jon. 12 Q So of the 36 containers, does this explain where 13 that first batch came from? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Now, what did -- while you were at MAS, did you 16 have chain of control -- chain of custody 17 procedures for any kind of sample you were asked to 18 test from the time it got to the lab until it was 19 tested by the analysts? 20 A Yes, we do. 21 Q While you were at MAS, did MAS do asbestos product 22 testing, not only for lawyers for people who are 23 plaintiffs in asbestos litigation, but did you also 24 do testing for companies that made 25 asbestos-containing products? Page 840 1 A Yes. The laboratory did testing for companies that 2 made the products. It also did testing for 3 homeowners that wanted to know if there was 4 asbestos in the floor tile that they were about to 5 tear out or an insulation product. So there were 6 all kinds of clients that had products that they 7 wanted to have tested to see if they had asbestos. 8 Q And did the chain of custody procedures vary 9 depending on who the lab got the products from or 10 got the samples from? 11 A No. 12 MR. FINCH: Can I have the PowerPoint again, 13 Jon. 14 MR. BICKS: Can I have a copy when you -- of 15 that document you just used, if you have one? 16 MR. FINCH: This one? Sure. 17 MR. BICKS: Yeah. Thank you. 18 Q Was one -- could you just explain just generally, 19 briefly, what did you and the other people at MAS 20 do to verify the authenticity of the first batch of 21 Johnson's baby powder you were testing? 22 A The samples were compared to historical 23 documentation, photographs, that kind of thing, to 24 see if they matched up, were they the same kind of 25 product containers, did they have the same kind of Page 841 1 markings, did the weights appear to be correct, 2 that kind of thing. So, you know, some of these 3 went back to the '40s and '50s. 4 Q What else did you do to determine whether or not 5 the containers had been tampered with or changed in 6 some way before they were tested? 7 A We did some specialized testing for looking at 8 containers. For instance, you see in this image 9 where there is a seal that's a plastic seal around. 10 It's a little difficult to see, but where the 11 number 2755RB is, there's a plastic seal that's 12 there that has to be broken prior to opening that 13 container. 14 So the -- what we did was we broke -- we 15 photographed it before, and then we broke the seal 16 later on to see how it would be disturbed, what it 17 would look like. And then you could inspect any 18 kind of container like this later on to see if 19 there had been any kind of tampering with it. So 20 that was some of the testing that we did. 21 But these were designed to be tamper proof. 22 So if you had a container that was, you know, 23 sealed like this, you know that it never had been 24 opened. 25 Q What is a particle size distribution for a talc Page 842 1 product and how did you use that to analyze the 2 contents of what it is you were testing? 3 A The products themselves have -- they have a : 4 character -- a particular range of size, if you 5 will. The manufacturer makes them according to a 6 certain kind of specification, but they're called 7 like a mesh size number it. And what it is is 8 those flat plate talc particles that we talked 9 about before, they want to get that product as 10 consistent as they possibly can. 11 So they have a range of particle size from : 12 75 microns down -- it can be smaller, but what 13 they're trying to shoot for, a particle size that 14 sort of stays out of the respiratory range. So 15 what we did was we did a bunch of particle analysis 16 on a number of the products and matched them up, 17 and they matched up with what would have been that 18 kind of particle range, that size range. They were 19 consistent for their product. 20 Q What is this graphic showing us here? What is this : 21 showing? 22 A That's actually showing a graph of -- on the top : 23 left, you actually see in the scanning electron 24 microscope, you see talc particles. They are from 25 the Johnson & Johnson product. And you can see Page 843 1 that they look -- they look flat and they're platy. 2 They are flat. But they're irregular in size. And 3 what the analyst did was analyze these using a 4 specific algorithm to fit the shape and then 5 measure exactly what the shape parameter is. And 6 then once they figure out what the shape parameter 7 size was, they went ahead and graphed each one of 8 these types and categories onto the graph that you 9 see here. 10 So you've got the size range all the way down 11 to, I guess it's -- it looks like about 1 micron. 12 So the 1 micron is the blue bar at the very bottom. 13 Q Did you compare this to a control sample of 14 Johnson's baby powder to see if it was consistent? 15 A Yes. 16 MR. BICKS: And again, Your Honor, when he 17 says did you do it? 18 Q Did the analysts at your laboratory that you were 19 the chief scientist of - 20 A Yes. 21 Q -- compare this to a control sample? 22 A Yes, they did. 23 Q Round 2, did you and Dr. Longo do a series of 24 reports related to the 56 containers you got 25 directly from Johnson & Johnson of Johnson's baby Page 844 1 powder? 2 A Yes. :.5:11 3 Q Have you summarized for us the results of testing :.5:11 4 of Johnson & Johnson cosmetic talc products? 5 A Yes. :.5:11 6 Q This is the Round 1 results. What percentage of :.5:11 7 the containers, either bottles or tins, had 8 detectable levels of asbestos? 9 A Of the 36, 20 of them did, which is about 10 55 percent. :.5 :11 11 Q What were the types of asbestos that were found? :.5:11 12 A There were specifically three major types. Well, 13 the tremolite, actinolite and anthophyllite. Now, :.5 :11 14 you see another term in there, it says richterite. 15 That's another form, if you will, of -- remember I 16 talked about the solvent solution series. This 17 form has some sodium with it. So it fit -- it fits 18 in the same category, in the same group. 19 Then there, of course, is the fiber size :.5:12 20 range. The numbers that we found per gram range 21 from 7,000 up to 15 million fibers per gram in the 22 product. So there's an average fiber count there 23 for that -- for that range, which is 1,087,000. 24 But then if you take out the highest number, 25 because that can also, you know, maybe bias it high Page 845 1 and you just look at that average, then it's about 2 360,199. And the average aspect ratio was 12 to 1. 3 So everything fit, as it should, for that type of 4 asbestos. 5 Q What about the Round 2 results, not including the 6 Asian samples? 7 A Here again, in the 50 -- that's with that -- there 8 were 57 in that group, and seven of them were from 9 a Korean mine. Of those 50, 36 of them were 10 positive for asbestos, which is 72 percent. 11 Q The 50, not including the seven that came from 12 Korea, was the 50 that came from either Italy or 13 Vermont or China? 14 A Correct. 15 Q And what were the types of asbestos identified in 16 the Round 2, the containers you got directly from 17 Johnson & Johnson? 18 A As you can see, tremolite and anthophyllite were 19 the major asbestos types, anywhere from 7,240 per 20 gram up to 268,000. Average fiber count there, 21 37,000 per gram, and the aspect ratio was about 13 22 to 3. And you all are experts in aspect ratios. 23 Q Now, there's also something, recent source talc 24 with detectable asbestos from railroad car samples. 25 The jury hasn't heard about that yet. What were Page 846 1 the railroad car samples and what was done to them 2 and what was the results? 3 A These, again, are historical samples that were 4 actually taken from railroad car loads of talc that 5 were going to be processed to go into the Johnson's 6 baby powder products. And MAS laboratory tested 15 7 of these. So there again, historical samples, 8 their product that Johnson & Johnson was going to 9 use to make their product. 10 Q What were the types of asbestos found in the 11 railroad car samples of talc? 12 A Here again, tremolite and anthophyllite, 4,600 to 13 59,000 fibers per gram, averaged 19,462, and then 14 average aspect ratio of 17.7 to 1. 15 Q And combining across both rounds of testing, what 16 percentage of the containers had detectable 17 asbestos? 18 A 65 percent of them did. If you look at all the 19 containers, and then if you look at the railroad 20 car or the source containers, about 53 percent of 21 them had -- were positive for asbestos. 22 Q And again, this has the fibers per gram range from 23 low to high and the average aspect ratio? 24 A Yes, 4,600 to 15,000,100 fibers per gram, 25 tremolite, richterite, actinolite, anthophyllite, Page 847 1 and average aspect ratio, if you put them all 2 together, 12.7 to 1. 3 Q Can you give the jury an example of something that 4 would weigh a gram? How much is a gram of 5 something? 6 A You could think maybe of a sugar cube. Well, maybe 7 something a bit smaller than that. Yeah, something 8 like that. 9 Q So not a lot of material if I have anywhere from 10 4,000 to 15 million asbestos fibers per gram? 11 A Yeah, it wouldn't be much. 12 Q Did you also do an analysis of the Johnson & 13 Johnson testing where you, instead of dividing it 14 by Batch 1 and Batch 2, you divided it by the years 15 for the years it was Italian sourced talc, Vermont 16 sourced talc, and Chinese talc? 17 A Yes. We divide them up into the 1960s, the '70s, 18 the '80s, the '90s, and the 2000s. 19 MR. BICKS: Again, Your Honor, it's the "you" 20 and then the "we." And I don't think solving it 21 is, you while you were the chief science officer, 22 because we know what his role was at the last 23 hearing. 24 Q Dr. Rigler - 25 THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection. Page 848 1 Q -- in the report that you co-authored with 2 Dr. Longo, did you do an analysis of what 3 percentage of the talc tested positive for 4 asbestos, you personally by you? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Did you do -- did you review every single 7 photomicrograph taken by the analysts, every count 8 sheet done by the analysts for all the reports 9 you've talked about here? 10 A That was part of my job, yes. 11 Q Did you do quality control for all of the reports 12 you've talked about here? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Did you from time to time sit down beside the 15 analysts while they were looking at a talc particle 16 or asbestos fiber found in a talc particle to 17 discuss with them what they were seeing? 18 A Many times, yes. 19 Q Did you -- during the time that this testing was 20 going on, how much -- what percentage of the time 21 were you in the laboratory? 22 A I was in the laboratory 99 percent of the time. 23 Q During the time that this testing was going on at 24 MAS, did you personally have discussions with both 25 the analysts and Dr. Longo about the analysis that Page 849 1 was being done and what the results were? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And did you author the reports, along with 4 Dr. Longo, of everything you've testified about 5 here today? 6 A I co-authored them, yes. 7 Q In the same way that you co-authored the scientific 8 paper that was published in the peer-reviewed 9 literature in 1995? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q Now, breaking it down by years or sources, what 12 percentage of the Italian sourced talc in Johnson's 13 baby powder was positive for asbestos? 14 A Well, up to 1967, the Italian type is 65 percent 15 positive. 16 Q What about for the Vermont sourced talc in the 1967 17 to 2003 time frame? 18 A 82 percent were positive. 19 Q And what about the Chinese talc? 20 A 39 percent. 21 Q Would it surprise you if any particular bottle 22 tested was a nondetect or no asbestos detected? 23 A That wouldn't surprise me. 24 Q Does the fact that a test registers no asbestos 25 detected or a nondetect mean that you could be a Page 850 1 hundred percent certain there's not asbestos there? 2 A You can't be a hundred percent certain because of 3 your detection limits. 4 Q So even if there was no asbestos detected by MAS, 5 that still doesn't mean there wasn't asbestos there 6 but at a level that's still there but below the 7 detection limit? 8 A Yes, that's possible, yes. 9 Q And the Cashmere Bouquet product, is it your 10 understanding that the source of Cashmere Bouquet 11 talc in the early '60s was the same mine that 12 Johnson & Johnson used? 13 MR. BICKS: Your Honor, I don't think, given 14 where we are, the relevance of Cashmere Bouquet, 15 I'm trying to understand, and I'm wondering if the 16 jury's going to be confused with that information. 17 MR. FINCH: Okay. I'll pass the Cashmere 18 Bouquet. 19 Q Let's turn now to - 20 THE COURT: So you've withdrawn the question? 21 MR. FINCH: I've withdrawn the question. 22 BY MR. FINCH: 23 Q Historical testing of Johnson's baby powder. There 24 was a lot of discussion by Mr. Bicks in opening 25 statement about lots and lots and lots of testing Page 851 1 done of Johnson's baby powder, never, ever, ever 2 any asbestos ever found in baby powder, and that 3 there was -- the talc has always, always, always 4 been asbestos free. I want you to assume that was 5 stated in opening. 6 MR. BICKS: Your Honor, I'd just object. It's 1.5:20 7 argumentative and improper use of an opening. 8 MR. FINCH: All right. 1.5:2 0 9 MR. BICKS: Can he just ask a question? 1.5:2 0 10 THE COURT: I'll sustain that. 1.5:2 0 11 BY MR. FINCH: 1.5:2 0 12 Q Have you reviewed Johnson & Johnson's historical 1.5:2 0 13 testing of its baby powder and its talc, including 14 testing done by its outside laboratories, such as 15 McCrone? 16 A Yes. :.5:21 17 Q And do you have an opinion as to why there are so :.5:21 18 many nondetects or no asbestos detected in the 19 Johnson & Johnson and McCrone's tests? 20 A They -- there are a number of reasons. It's kind :.5:21 21 of obvious. 22 Q Well, then could you lay them out for us? :.5:21 23 A Well, they didn't -- they didn't do any heavy 24 liquid separation work. :.5:21 25 Q Why is that important? :.5:21 Page 852 1 A Again, to detect these low levels and to separate 2 the talc so that you can count the asbestos. It's 3 very important. So that's one reason. 4 Q What's another reason why there were so many 5 nonasbestos detected or nondetects? 6 A Their detection limits were high. And that may not 7 seem like it means something, but understand that 8 in their TM7024, Johnson & Johnson's own protocol 9 for testing, if you didn't find at least 5 asbestos 10 fibers in your analysis, then it didn't exist. So 11 what that means is that you see the asbestos fibers 12 that have been counted by the laboratory, and when 13 you do the calculation to how many per gram, that 14 kind of thing, five is very significant. 15 Because of the way that they did this, you 16 would essentially -- if you just had four fibers, 17 just four, and you said, well, you know, how many 18 is that really? That can come to tens of 19 thousands, if not millions, of fibers in the 20 product that they would say didn't exist. They 21 didn't exist. Unless we found five, they didn't 22 actually exist. And that's actually part of their 23 testing protocol. So that's one reason why they 24 didn't find it, and that's what we call very high 25 detection limits. Page 853 1 So MAS's detection limits, because of the 2 heavy liquid separation is in the range, you've 3 seen some of the numbers here, 7,000 structures. 4 If you find just a few of them, 7,000. And so they 5 would have to find, in some cases, tens of millions 6 of them before they'd say yes, there's something in 7 our product. 8 Q There's -- right at the beginning of your direct, 9 it was a couple hours ago now, you talked about 10 x-ray diffraction. I guess it's been longer than a 11 couple of hours. 12 A Yes. 13 Q But how, if at all, did the use of x-ray 14 diffraction play into all these nondetects? 15 A The -- you have to understand that for talc 16 products, because talc is also being used in 17 pharmaceutical applications and cosmetics, that 18 kind of thing, that there was a specification for 19 testing them. And there was a group called the 20 Cosmetic -- CFTA, I believe the cosmetic fragrance 21 association, and what they did was they used a 22 specific testing method which is from the U.S. 23 Pharmacopeia, which is the outfit that sets 24 standards for drug testing. U.S.P., you've seen 25 that if you take a bottle of aspirin or whatever, Page 854 1 it has U.S.P. on there. 2 What that means is it tests according to their 1.5:24 3 specification. It tests according to the drug 4 manufacturer's specification, U.S.P. So there's a 5 talc specification for that. And one of the 6 testing parameters was called XRD, x-ray 7 diffraction. Remember that square machine in the 8 one image that we showed earlier on. So x-ray 9 diffraction. 10 The problem with x-ray diffraction is it's 1.5:24 11 very limited. You can maybe see down to a tenth of 12 a percent of asbestos, which is not very much. So 13 if it's less than a tenth of a percent, that's a 14 lot by TEM, and the x-ray diffraction technique 15 would miss that. But that's part of their 16 specification. X-ray diffraction is a part of 17 their specification. So that's why they could miss 18 it. 19 Q Okay. Let's go through a few documents from 20 Johnson & Johnson's files or the CTFA that 21 illustrate this. 22 MR. FINCH: Can I have Exhibit 619? 23 May I approach, Your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Yes. And has this been stipulated 25 to? 1.5:2 5 1.5:2 5 1.5:2 5 1.5:2 5 Page 855 1 MR. FINCH: I believe it's been -- .5:25 2 MR. BICKS: No. We haven't. .5:25 3 MR. FINCH: This is a document on Johnson & .5:26 4 Johnson letterhead dated February 28, 1975. 5 MR. BICKS: Right. But he's not a witness .5:26 6 with foundation to use this unless -- 7 MR. FINCH: I can lay a foundation. .5:26 8 BY MR. FINCH: .5:26 9 Q Doctor -- .5:26 10 MR. FINCH: First of all, do you have any .5:26 11 objection to the admissibility of the document? 12 MR. BICKS: I just don't think he's got a .5:26 13 foundation to talk about the document , so it 14 couldn't be admitted here. 15 MR. FINCH: May I lay a foundation, Your .5:26 16 Honor? 17 THE COURT: Yes. .5:26 18 BY MR. FINCH: .5:26 19 Q Dr. Rigler, have you seen Plaintiffs' Exhibit 619 .5:26 20 before? 21 A I'd have to see it. .5:26 22 Q Yeah. .5:26 23 A Yes. .5:26 24 Q It's a document on Johnson & Johnson letterhead .5:26 25 dated February 28, 1975? Page 856 1 A Yes. 2 Q It's a discussion of the review of CTFA methodology 3 for the detection of asbestos in talc as well as 4 comments on the TPF methodology? 1.5 : 2 6 1.5 : 2 6 5 A Yes, sir. 1.5:2 6 6 Q Is it a document that you have relied on in at 1.5:2 6 7 least in part for some of your opinions with 8 respect to this case? 9 A Well, in reference to x-ray diffraction as a '.5:21 10 technique. 11 Q Also, is it a document that on the last page - '.5:21 12 without showing it to the jury, could you go to the 13 last page. Does it discuss a concentration 14 technique in paragraph 4? 15 A Yes, it does. 16 Q And you're familiar with that part of the document? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q Does that inform your opinions, at least in part, '.5:21 '.5:21 '.5:21 '.5:21 19 in this case? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, I would offer at this '.5:21 '.5:21 22 point Exhibit 619. I don't believe there's any 23 dispute as to its authenticity or that it's a 24 Johnson & Johnson document. And I believe this 25 witness has established the foundation to testify Page 857 1 about it. 2 THE COURT: Any objection? 3 MR. BICKS: No objection. 4 THE COURT: All right. The Court shows '.5:21 '.5:21 '.5:21 5 Exhibit 619 admitted without objection. 6 MR. FINCH: Okay. Can I have the ELMO, Jon. '.5:21 7 Q All right. So this is Plaintiffs' 619. And am I '.5:21 8 right, this is sort of the time frame when the CTFA 9 is coming up with the x-ray diffraction as a 10 methodology to test talc? 11 A Yes. 1.5:2 8 12 Q This is from Robert Rolle at Johnson & Johnson, on 13 Johnson & Johnson letterhead, to Ian Sloan at 1.5:2 8 14 Johnson & Johnson in Great Britain; right? 15 A Yes. 1.5:2 8 16 Q And the letter was written by somebody in New 1.5:2 8 17 Brunswick, New Jersey? You see that? On the ELMO? 18 A Yes, sir. 1.5:2 8 19 Q Oh, sorry, yes. 1.5:2 8 20 MR. BICKS: Did you ever - 1.5:2 8 21 MR. FINCH: I thought you had a copy? 1.5:2 8 22 MR. BICKS: No, I do. But the foundation with 1.5:28 23 him to narrate through the documents, there's no 24 foundation for that. 25 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, I thought I laid a 1.5:2 9 Page 858 1 foundation, and you had overruled the objection. 2 THE COURT: Well, he didn't -- the Court 1.5:2 9 3 admitted it without objection. 4 MR. BICKS: Right. 1.5:2 9 5 THE COURT: And you're objecting that there's 1.5:2 9 6 no foundation for the witness to discuss the 7 document? 8 MR. BICKS: To start saying who wrote the 1.5:2 9 9 document, where are they from. He won't know any 10 of that. 11 THE COURT: The witness -- I'll overrule that. 12 The witness testified he had viewed the document 13 and was familiar with it. 14 BY MR. FINCH: 15 Q All right. Turning now to paragraph 4 on the last 16 page of the document. First of all, you said that 1.5:2 9 1.5:2 9 1.5:2 9 17 you relied on this in part because there was a 18 description of the CTFA, what eventually became the 19 CTFA J4-1 technique? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And that's the x-ray diffraction? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q And that only allows, at least at the time, a 24 detection down to .2 percent or something? 25 A Yeah, .11 percent. 1.5:2 9 1.5:2 9 1.5:2 9 1.5:2 9 1.5:2 9 Page 859 1 Q And then the last page of the document, "We are 1.5:2 9 2 presently practicing evaluating the Pooley 3 flotation method so we are not in a position to 4 recommend it at this time. Besides, we feel that a 5 detectability limit with our two present methods of 6 0.5 percent to 1 percent is reasonable and provides 7 us a safety margin of 48,300 (see report August 15, 8 1974). Our major problem with the Pooley procedure 9 is that since one can continually recycle tailings 10 (concentrate) given enough time, it is possible to 11 arrive at levels of detectability of asbestos in 12 talc in the parts per million range - at what stage 13 of recycling do you stop? We really want to 14 exclude concentration techniques in any proposed 15 analytical procedure and are really looking at the 16 method very quietly so that we will be informed and 17 up-to-date with this area of technology. We want 18 to avoid promotion of this approach." 19 Did I read that right? :.5:31 20 A Yes. :.5:31 21 Q Is that a description of a potential heavy liquid :.5: 31 22 separation method, in your opinion as a 23 professional material scientist? 24 A Yes. It's a concentration method, yes. :.5: 31 25 Q Based on the TEM testing specifications, which is :.5: 31 Page 860 1 in Plaintiffs' Exhibit 38, was there any -- ever 2 any requirement for Johnson & Johnson or its - 3 anyone who was following 7024 to do a heavy liquid 4 concentration preparation first? 5 A No, they didn't do that. :.5:31 6 MR. FINCH: May I have Plaintiffs' 7 Exhibit 185. 8 May I approach? 9 THE COURT: Yes. 10 BY MR. FINCH: 11 Q Dr. Rigler, are you familiar with Plaintiffs' 12 Exhibit 185? 13 A Yes. 14 Q This is the final CTFA method J4-1? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Asbestiform amphibole materials in cosmetic talc? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Is that the x-ray diffraction method you were 19 referring to a few minutes ago? 20 A Early on, yes. 21 Q This is a document that came from the files of 22 Johnson & Johnson? 23 A Yes. 24 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, we'd offer Plaintiffs' 25 Exhibit 185. :.5:31 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 1.5 :32 Page 861 1 MR. BICKS: No objection. 1.5 :32 2 THE COURT: The Court shows Plaintiffs' 1.5 :32 3 Exhibit 185 admitted without objection. 4 BY MR. FINCH: 1.5 :32 5 Q This is the method that the talc industry, the 1.5 :33 6 cosmetic talc industry chose to follow to look for 7 asbestos in talc; is that correct? 8 A To my knowledge, it is, yes. 1.5 :33 9 Q This chart, or I guess an engineer would call that 1.5:33 10 a flowchart maybe. 11 A Yes. 1.5 :33 12 Q Or maybe they wouldn't, but what is this chart on 1.5 :33 13 the bottom? What is it showing us? 14 A It shows that the process for analyzing talc, 1.5 :33 15 starting with x-ray diffraction, if none is 16 detected by x-ray diffraction, stop. We won't go 17 any further. Just stop. If you do find something, 18 then you move on to optical microscopy and 19 dispersion staining. 20 Q And at this stage of x-ray diffraction, if there is 1.5:33 21 amphibole present below .5 percent, do you just - 22 what happens? 23 A Stop. You don't do anything. 24 Q So if -- and you don't even test to see whether 1.5 :34 1.5 :34 25 it's asbestos amphibole or not asbestos amphibole? Page 862 1 A You just stop. 1.5 :34 2 Q So if you have a lot of talc -- and by "lot," I 1.5 :34 3 don't mean a big amount, but say a railroad car 4 full of talc, and there was actually asbestos there 5 at a level of .01 percent concentration, and you 6 tested it a million times, using x-ray diffraction, 7 would you ever detect the asbestos that was there? 8 A No. 1.5 :34 9 Q Now, you mentioned the high cutoff values in terms 1.5 :34 10 of how many asbestos structures have to be present 11 before you would call something as testing positive 12 for asbestos. Do you remember telling the jury 13 about that? 14 A For the Johnson & Johnson. 15 Q And this is Exhibit 38 already. 16 MR. BICKS: And Your Honor, just so -- when we 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 17 keep talking about the Johnson & Johnson method, 18 are we including TEM as well or are we just talking 19 about CTFA 41? Because this is kind of misleading. 20 MR. FINCH: This is -- I'm talking about - 21 A 7024. 22 MR. FINCH: -- 7024 is Johnson & Johnson - 23 Q What is the title of this document, Dr. Rigler? 24 A "Analysis of Powder Talc for Asbestiform Minerals 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 25 by Transmission Electron Microscopy." Page 863 1 Q So are we talking about electron microscopes? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And this is Johnson & Johnson's - 4 THE COURT: Is there an objection? 5 MR. BICKS: No, Your Honor. 6 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 7 Q This is Johnson & Johnson's method, whenever it 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 1.5:3 5 8 used, or McCrone used, an electron microscope, this 9 is the method they followed from whenever this 10 began in the '70s, all the way up to whatever the 11 most recent document we have? 12 A Yeah, this is the method with, if you didn't count 1.5 : 3 6 13 at least five structures, that it wasn't there. 14 Q So there's a few things about this document. The 1. 5 : 3 6 15 jury's already seen, and they'll have this one 16 back. The jury's already seen Johnson & Johnson's 17 definition of a fiber; elongated particle with 18 parallel sides and an aspect ratio bigger -- longer 19 than three to one; right? 20 A Yes. 1. 5 : 3 6 21 Q Now, in Section 6.0, "Limit of Quantifiable 1. 5 : 3 6 22 Detection." 23 A Yes. 24 Q "The detection of five or more asbestiform minerals 1. 5 : 3 6 1.5:3 7 25 of one variety in an analysis constitutes a Page 864 1 quantifiable level of detection. When no 2 asbestiform minerals are detected, a representative 3 fiber size is used to calculate the detection 4 limit." 5 What -- as a scientist, what is your 1.5:3 7 6 understanding of a limit of quantifiable detection 7 when you have a five fibers of one variety limit? 8 A Well, you've limited yourself to, say, if we don't 1.5:3 7 9 find five fibers of one variety, that, you know, 10 it's not a quantifiable level. 11 Q Have you done a calculation as to the total 1.5:3 7 12 asbestos fiber concentration per gram of Johnson's 13 baby powder that would be below the limit of 14 quantifiable detection per this standard? 15 A Yes. 1.5:3 7 16 MR. BICKS: Can I just have the foundation as 1.5:37 17 to when that was done? 18 Q When did you do these calculations? 1.5:3 8 19 A These calculations were done, I believe, while I 1.5:3 8 20 was still at MAS. 21 Q So - 22 A It's been quite a while. 1.5:3 8 1.5:3 8 23 Q -- at least prior to May of last year? 24 A Yeah, somewhere in that amount of time. 1.5:3 8 1.5:3 8 25 MR. BICKS: Can I just have a representation 1.5:3 8 Page 865 1 that those were disclosed in his expert report? 2 Because I didn't see them in the case. 3 MR. FINCH: They were in the -- I believe they 1.5:38 4 were disclosed, Your Honor. I don't know if it was 5 in the expert report, but in all of the backup 6 materials that were disclosed, these calculations 7 were disclosed. 8 A Yeah, there's a calculation in there. It's 1.5:3 8 9 calculated for four fibers of one type of asbestos, 10 four fibers of two types of asbestos, four fibers 11 of three types of asbestos, and the calculations 12 are done like that. 13 Q Can you replicate those calculations now? If you 1.5:3 8 14 had four fibers of tremolite, would that count 15 as -- in a gram of -- four fibers in a gram, would 16 that count as a detectable level of asbestos under 17 this method? 18 A No. 19 Q And what is -- if there were four fibers in the 20 grid, what would that mean in terms of tremolite 1.5:3 9 1.5:3 9 21 fibers per gram of talc? 22 A Well, I don't remember the exact numbers, but it 23 would be -- it would be tens of thousands of 24 fibers, maybe hundreds of thousands. Possibly 1.5:3 9 25 millions. So again, I don't remember right off the Page 866 1 top of my head, but a calculation was done. 2 This particular method that they use does it 3 on a weight percentage, and I don't want to 4 complicate it or confuse you guys, but there - 5 this calculation is done in a different way. What 6 the health authorities believe, the calculations 7 should be done on single fiber, on fibers, on 8 bundles, on single ones. 9 This is done by taking a single fiber, 10 figuring out what the mass of that is, and then 11 basing your counts on that. And that's -- that can 12 be very misleading as to the number of fibers or 13 structures that are actually in it. But this is 14 the way that Johnson & Johnson has chosen to do it, 15 to do it by a weight percentage. 16 So once again, it's a representation, though 17 you can do it this way, but it doesn't give you the 18 impact or the idea of how many actual fibers or 19 structures are in the product. It'll just give you 20 a weight percentage. So those are some of the 21 major differences there. 22 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, I note the time. 23 We're getting close to the end, but we're certainly 24 not going to be done in time for our stopping time. 25 So I'm getting ready to move to a different area. Page 867 1 And we will be wrapping up in the next hour or so, 2 but we made a commitment to one of our jurors, and 3 I would request respectfully that we cease for the 4 day. 5 THE COURT: Yes. Thank you. Then we'll :.5:41 6 conclude for the day. And as always, we'll 7 conclude with our admonition. 8 We are now going to take a break for the day 15:41 9 and for the weekend. Please be back at 9 a.m. 10 Monday morning. 11 Before we recess, I have told you not to talk 15:41 12 about the case and to keep an open mind concerning 13 it. You are not to discuss the evidence or the 14 case with anyone else, and you are not to permit 15 anyone else to discuss the case with you or to talk 16 about it in your presence on any subject or matter 17 connected with the trial. 18 It is your duty to keep an open mind about the 15:41 19 case until it is submitted to you for final 20 deliberation. If anyone tries to discuss the case, 21 get their name and report it to the Court. 22 Furthermore, during a recess, you are not to talk 23 to any of the attorneys, staff, or witnesses about 24 anything, not even to pass the time of day. 25 In addition, jurors are not allowed to read 15:42 Page 868 1 anything concerning any of the parties or products 2 in the case. This includes simply reading the 3 paper, listening to the radio, or internet articles 4 that seem to pop up everywhere. Also, you may not 5 Google anything or anyone concerning the parties or 6 products involved in this case. You may be and 7 must appear to be impartial at all times during the 8 trial. 9 Lastly, there is no -- the Indiana Code of 1.5:42 10 Judicial Conduct prohibits broadcasting, 11 televising, recording, or taking photographs in the 12 courtroom or adjacent areas. 13 So with these admonitions, you are released 1.5:42 14 for the weekend, and we look forward to seeing you 15 Monday morning at 9 a.m. 16 (Whereupon, the jury exited the courtroom.) 1.5:42 17 THE COURT: While we're still on the record, 1.5 :43 18 just a few housekeeping matters, and then if there 19 are any matters that the parties would like to 20 discuss with the Court, of course we can do so. 21 This morning the Court permitted a recross, 1.5 :43 22 and the Court's not going to do that anymore. So 23 just going forward, so everybody is clear about 24 that, if one party exceeds the scope of cross on 25 redirect, then you just have to object in a timely Page 869 1 fashion. 2 And just so that I'm clear, the parties intend 1.5 :43 3 to submit briefing on whether the balance of the 4 item that was partially admitted into court today 5 can be admitted in full. So I'll receive that 6 sometime over the weekend? 7 MR. BICKS: Yes. 1.5:44 8 THE COURT: Now, lastly, as to page and line 1.5:44 9 designations, will I be receiving those, and if so, 10 when? 11 MS. FARINAS: Your Honor, what is your -- just 1.5:44 12 to back up to the last one, I wrote down when we 13 were talking about that earlier that you gave 14 defendants till noon on Sunday to file their 15 briefing and us till noon on Monday to file the 16 response on the FDA -- the recall issue, the 17 document. 18 THE COURT: Yes. Because Monday is all 1.5:44 19 Dr. Hopkins, is that correct? 20 MS. FARINAS: I just wanted to be clear that 1.5:44 21 our response was not also due, like, Sunday night 22 at midnight or something like that. 23 And then with respect to the page and lines on 1.5:44 24 Melody's deposition, I was talking earlier with 25 Todd Barnes from our office who has been doing it, Page 870 1 and I think perhaps the best option is to have - 2 maybe we can come to an agreement on a highlighted 3 deposition that has the different portions that are 4 at issue, that then for each side to submit written 5 objections to the page and lines that are offered 6 by another party with their objection written out 7 and a column for you to rule on those objections. 8 I think that's going to be the best way to actually 9 get some clarification and some rulings. That 10 would be our suggestion, Your Honor. 11 THE COURT: And you intend to play her video 1.5 :45 12 on Wednesday? 13 MS. FARINAS: Yes, Your Honor. 1.5 :45 14 THE COURT: Personally I would like to have 1.5 :45 15 those over the weekend so I can do it on Sunday, 16 because Monday and Tuesday I would expect to be in 17 court. 18 MS. FARINAS: And we can make that happen. 1.5 :45 19 THE COURT: So if you could submit them Sunday 1.5 :45 20 at noon. 21 MS. FARINAS: Sunday at noon as well for 1.5 :45 22 those? 23 THE COURT: Sunday by noon. 1.5 :45 24 MR. FINCH: And with respect to Hopkins, I am 1.5 :45 25 advised that there's only a handful of potential Page 871 1 objections. I'm going to be in communication with 2 counsel for Johnson & Johnson over the weekend, 3 either Saturday or Sunday, see if we can work that 4 out. If we can't, I don't anticipate we'd need 5 more than, what, 10, 15 minutes of argument time. 6 MS. MALIK: Yes, Your Honor. 1.5 :46 7 THE COURT: Yeah, I took a look at them, and 1.5 :46 8 there aren't very many. 9 MS. FARINAS: And the only other deposition, I 1.5 :46 10 think, that's coming up as well is a deposition of 11 Alice Blount that we would like to enter into 12 evidence as well. I think there could be 13 potentially a few more arguments with respect to 14 that. We can try to reach out and discuss that as 15 well this weekend and get the positions. 16 THE COURT: I don't have her on my list. When 1.5 :46 17 did you want to play that deposition? 18 MS. FARINAS: It would be after Hopkins at 1.5 :46 19 some point. 20 MR. FINCH: It would be after Hopkins is over, 1.5 :46 21 after Rigler is over. 22 THE COURT: So after - 1.5 :46 23 MR. GREENE: Later on in the week. 1.5 :46 24 MS. MALIK: It's not very long. 1.5 :46 25 MR. FINCH: No, it's not. 1.5 :46 Page 872 1 MS. FARINAS: It's very small. 1.5 :46 2 MR. GREENE: Some of those objections, Your 1.5 :46 3 Honor, to what the plaintiffs want to play are 4 essentially the same objection throughout. So once 5 the Court makes a conclusion, we'll know most of 6 what's in or out. 7 THE COURT: So do that Monday? 1.5:47 8 MS. FARINAS: We can find a hole on Monday. 1.5:47 9 THE COURT: If you want to play it on Tuesday, 1.5:47 10 we can do that Monday sometime. 11 MS. FARINAS: We can talk over the weekend and 1.5:47 12 find a hole on Monday to talk about anything that 13 we need to. 14 THE COURT: Anything else? 1.5:47 15 MR. BICKS: I would just notify the Court and 1.5:47 16 opposing counsel that with Kerr departing and each 17 party reserving the right to call any expert 18 retained by another defendant, that we're inclined 19 to likely call Dr. Roggli and probably likely not 20 call Dr. Chireac. So that's - 21 MR. FINCH: Your Honor, I took Roggli's - 1.5:47 22 Dr. Roggli's deposition and he specifically said he 23 was only working for Kerr in this case, he was not 24 working for Johnson & Johnson. I don't think it is 25 fair or proper for them to now call him as their Page 873 1 expert. If they were to have designated him as 2 their expert, I would have done a somewhat 3 different deposition of Dr. Roggli. 4 I don't think -- I mean, yes, you can have a 1.5 :48 5 right to -- reserve the right to call another 6 side's expert, but that's if the expert is properly 7 disclosed. And he was not -- in his opinions, he 8 did not say -- when I asked him, he said he was 9 giving opinions about Kerr dental tape for this 10 case and he wasn't working for Johnson & Johnson or 11 Cashmere Bouquet for that matter. 12 So I think we would be prejudiced for them to 1.5 :48 13 call him as an expert witness in their case when he 14 was designated by Kerr and he told me under oath in 15 his deposition he was only working for Kerr and 16 wasn't going to be working for Johnson & Johnson. 17 I think that is prejudicial because I would have 18 done a somewhat different cross-examination of him 19 at the deposition. 20 MR. BICKS: We're using him on the exact topic 1.5 :48 21 that you did depose him on, his finding of an 22 asbestos body. And we expressly reserved the 23 right - 24 THE COURT: I'm sorry, his what? 25 MR. BICKS: The finding of the asbestos body. 1.5:4 9 1.5:4 9 Page 874 1 It's a very short examination, and it is what you 2 deposed him on. The part about the Kerr exposures, 3 that's a whole nother issue. We're obviously not 4 getting into that. And in our filing with the 5 Court that everybody has, we stated that we 6 expressly reserved the right to call any expert 7 witness designated by any other party to this 8 action, including any defendant subsequently 9 dismissed from the action. And there's no 10 surprise. It's the same topic that you examined 11 him on. 12 MR. FINCH: Can I confer with my co-counsel 13 and think over the weekend what our position is 1.5:4 9 14 going to be on this, Your Honor? 15 THE COURT: Yes. And can the Court have - 16 MR. FINCH: You said somebody is going to be 17 showing up next week. Is he - 18 MR. BICKS: I'm just trying to give the Court 19 a heads-up because, honestly, with all the 1.5:4 9 1.5:4 9 1.5:4 9 20 deposition stuff, I can anticipate we're going to 21 have a problem. So I'm focusing on Friday, a week 22 from today, to make sure that we've got everything 23 in order for the Court. So I'm focusing a week out 24 so the Court knows what's going on it. 25 And Your Honor -- 1.5:50 Page 875 1 MS. MALIK: The same day he was going to come. 1.5:50 2 MR. BICKS: The same day he had been 1.5:50 3 previously scheduled to come is on that day. 4 MR. FINCH: Okay. I will consult with my boss 1.5:50 5 and my brains over here - 6 THE COURT: Very good. 1.5:50 7 MR. FINCH: -- and give you a - 1.5:50 8 THE COURT: Is there a TID as to the portion 1.5:50 9 of his deposition, so the Court would like to look 10 at it so in case there is any argument as to 11 prejudice? 12 MR. BICKS: Sure. 1.5:50 13 MS. FARINAS: I don't think it's filed on the 1.5:50 14 system, Your Honor. Perhaps J & J could upload it 15 to the deposition docket for you. 16 MS. MALIK: Sure. 1.5:50 17 THE COURT: Or if it's short -- sure. Just do 1.5:50 18 this. And then if you make an objection, I'll know 19 where to go. Thank you. 20 Okay. So anything else? 1.5:50 21 MS. FARINAS: No, I think that threw us for a 1.5:50 22 loop before the end of the day. 23 THE COURT: Well, thanks very much. We can go 1.5:50 24 off the record. 25 (The proceedings concluded at 3:50 p.m.) 15:51 Page 876 1 STATE OF INDIANA 2 COUNTY OF HENDRICKS 3 4 I, Debbi S. Austin, a Notary Public in and for 5 said county and state, do hereby certify that on the 6 18th day of October, 2019, I took down in stenograph 7 notes the foregoing proceedings in the aforementioned 8 matter; 9 That said proceedings were taken down in 10 stenograph notes and afterwards reduced to typewriting 11 under my direction; and that the typewritten 12 transcript is a true record of the proceedings; 13 I do further certify that I am a disinterested 14 p e r son in this cause of action; that I am not a 15 relative of the attorneys for any of the parties. 16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 17 hand and affixed my notarial seal this 18th day of 18 19 20 21 22 My Commission Expires: 23 July 13, 2023 24 25 $ $175,000 744:12 $40,000 635:20 $500 637:15 $ 6 636:14,25 0 0.5 745:10 859:6 00002 779:16 780:3 783:22 786:16 002 821:14 01 862:5 017 755:22,23 1 I 638:21 745:14 749:9 755:21 797:19 798:12 799:1 800:19,25 801:1 802:7 836:12 843:11,12 844:6 845:2 846:14 847:2,14 859:6 1,000,880 818:21 1.087.000 844:23 1-15-19 796:12 1.1 799:9 I . 8 798:2,5,8 10 661:2,3 670:19 720:10 776:10 801:7 814:17 871:5 10.000 732:13 735:11 100.4 674:25 100655 724:12 101.4 675:16 I I 712:13 733:5 793:9 858:25 I I . 5 828:10,12 11001-08 631:4 12 670:20,23 671:4 675:12,13 760:4 845:2 12.7 847:2 12231 680:1 13 845:21 13.1 675:16 816:19 13794 790:16 14 803:13 15 670:19 719:20 776:10 838:8, 11,12 844:21 846:6 847:10 859:7 871:5 15,000,100 846:24 16,278,570 818:22 16.4 820:17 164 696:23 17 708:14 17.1 675:1,19 17.7 846:14 170 755:19,20,21 17025 723:7,25 18 657:19 659:9,15 670:21,23 671:4 779:24 783:17 786:11 181 743:4,5,8 185 860:7,12,25 861:3 1867 829:3 19 798:10 19,462 846:13 19.4 825:5 19.7 797:19 1900s 665:9 1930s 693:14,16,19 694:20 695:4 741:12 1940s 683:22 741:12 742:6 1952 721:7 1954 721:8 1958 692:5 196 814:1,14,24 1960 644:18 1960s 694:22 698:14 847:17 1967 838:21,22 849:14,16 1968 679:4 687:9 1970 692:9,13 696:3 698:5 Index: $175,000..2.8 1970s 626:17 661:23 662:12 679:20 709:1,16 812:9 820:4 1971 641:13 647:13,20,24 648:17 692:21 708:18 1972 647:20 688:7 708:14 1973 633:11 1974 743:10 744:12,17 752:5 859:8 1975 686:13,19 689:19 855:4,25 1976 633:4,14 645:18 648:17, 19,22 655:14,23 660:10,25 661:3 702:3,8 704:21 707:1,5 1977 637:22 668:12,23 669:3,13 700:25 702:4 831:18 1978 795:23 796:2 817:20 825:1 1979 633:20 635:19 680:14 702:5 1980 635:19,22 636:4 1980s 638:3 1984 638:25 825:16 827:23 828:9 1985 636:6 639:3 1987 793:15 795:3 1989 716:19 816:2 1990s 638:4 1991 746:20 751:13 833:6 1994 814:17 815:3 1995 720:2 726:25 790:25 793:9 812:12 849:9 1996 737:14 1:15 760:5 2 2 641:24 642:9 651:2,9 738:13 745:14 750:22 774:19 800:19 801:8 802:12 803:15,18 836:22 837:13,14 843:23 845:5,16 847:14 858:24 2,000 732:12 2.6 820:17,18 821:2 2.8 750:22 2.85 746:2 20 657:19 659:9,15 712:13 719:5,20 844:9 20.000 737:19 749:7 20.2 829:19 20/20 683:21 2000s 847:18 2003 764:6 838:22 849:17 2004ish 838:23 2007 636:15,18 2 0 1 0 681:2 2013 635:25 636:3 2014 748:7 751:14 2015 625:9,21,25 2017 836:4,13 2018 763:14 767:19 836:13 2019 633:22 765:11,17 779:12, 24 783:17 786:11 836:4 21.5 828:10 22 648:22 707:1 22-year 636:16 222 790:16 2226-2 748:8 22262 811:10 22262-1 833:19,24 22262-2 749:15 751:14 790:19 23 696:25 704:20 707:5 2300 755:17 25 668:11,23 726:24 753:10 25th 641:22 268.000 845:20 2755RB 841:11 28 855:4,25 28.35 818:21 293 641:21 29429 756:20 3 3 690:12691:10 708:17 714:5,10 738:17 743:10 746:7 769:13 791:14 800:19 801:9 802:12 803:15 805:3,5 845:22 3.000 732:12 3-10 661:2 3.1 674:25 675:1,19 30 679:7 716:24 753:11 793:4 306 641:3 30s 693:25 31 645:18 706:24,25 31.4 799:9 32 644:19 33 644:19 34.5 799:9 35 632:14 35.4 798:2,3,7 358 751:24 752:4 755:7 756:19 36 836:18 839:12 844:9 845:9 360,199 845:2 37.000 845:21 38 811:17,20 812:1 813:24 860:1 862:15 386 815:11,19,20 39 849:20 3:50 875:25 4 4 657:10,19 659:9,15 696:12 762:7 766:14 780:9 786:4,6,7 800:19 856:14 858:15 4.000 847:10 4,600 846:12,24 40 633:23 635:10 784:11 787:11 40.000 636:1 400 634:1,15 Index: 2.85..69042-02 407 767:8,13 768:20,23,24 769:7 771:12,19 774:3,21 779:6 40s 841:3 41 862:19 46 825:21 47 707:15 48 721:13 48,300 859:7 5 5 680:14 789:12 852:9 861:21 5-micron 757:25 5.4 828:11 5.5 829:20 50 626:19 695:1 845:7.,9,11,12 50s; 684:20 841: 3 52 707:9,11,23 53 846:20 55 844:10 56 843:24 57 837:18 845:8 578I 645:18 705: 1 59,1000 846:13 6 6 638:17 764:13 776:24 798:22 802:4 6.0 863:21 60s 698:7 742:15 838:25 850:11 619 854:22 855:19 856:22 857:5,7 63,800 818:15 65 718:25 846:18 849:14 68233002-002 821:10 69042-002 797:7 69042-02 817:20 7 7 754:4 756:19 782:7 798:23 7,000 844:21 853:3,4 7,240 845:19 7.5 828:11 7024 812:4 860:3 862:21,22 70s 679:17 751:18 847:17 863:10 7119 649:25 704:16 72 688:8 845:10 73 688:8 689:2 74 689:2 75 842:12 76 706:25 7922 816:20 8 8 762:9 764:15 8 .6 799:1 8079 663:10 8096 656:17 657:10 80s 638:4 759:1 847:18 82 849:18 8240 658:22 8402 660:11,16 85 636:15 8846 653:13,16 703:19 8:38 768:11 9 9 657:19 659:9,15 818:20 867:9 868:15 9.89 825:21 90 635:4 690:2 775:24 90s 847:18 9100 668:11,16 99 634:23 848:22 99.9 634:7 A a.m. 746:20 762:9 764:13,15 867:9 868:15 A2la 723:21 abandoned 627:8 abbreviations 804:8 Abe 737:15 abide 772:13 ability 639:8,15 752:23 absence 654:24 absolute 743:15 absolutely 736:17 766:17 abundance 631:22 acceptable 725:15 accepted 632:10 722:1 accessories 744:12 accidents 719:8 account 778:18 Accreditation 723:22 727:19 accurate 624:11 634:9 689:13 ACGIH 726:1 achieved 677:3 acknowledged 703:22,23 acknowledges 703:21 act 758:25 759:5,12 actinolite 736:21 755:18,19,24 756:16 815:7 844:13 846:25 actinolite/tremolite 736:12 826:17,24 action 699:15 874:8,9 active 627:6,10 actively 695:7 778:19 activities 717:13 actual 656:11 800:7 801:16 804:5 805:20 822:4,16 866:18 Index: 7..advance add 765:17 766:14 776:5 added 636:12,23 637:1 763:24 765:10 addition 727:6,9 760:19 792:3 803:14 817:8 830:7 837:20 867:25 address 726:7 772:6 777:1 addressed 641:15,16 653:25 addressing 719:24 adds 695:20 adequacy 762:14 763:16 adequate 778:14 adhere 780:18 adjacent 761:5 868:12 adjust 830:19 Administration 774:9,16 779:13 780:1 783:20 786:14 admissibility 707:20 765:24 771:13 774:4 855:11 admissible 707:11 751:21 766:11 769:3 771:23 773:8,10 777:10 admission 660:17 762:9 765:7 766:1 767:7 768:21 772:20 773:5 779:4,5 781:2 783:5 admit 663:14 668:14 680:2 769:7,14 770:6 admits 781:3 admitted 631:4 653:16 656:21 659:3 660:19 663:16 668:17 680:5 696:18 707:24 743:8 751:24 769:16 781:7 786:8 787:21 811:21 814:14 815:19 855:14 857:5 858:3 861:3 869:4, 5 admonished 772:7,10 admonishment 760:2 772:11, 13,17 780:19 admonishments 761:7 admonition 867:7 admonitions 868:13 advance 764:23 advised 870:25 advocate 709:10 advocating 709:10 affirmative 631:7 afield 776:21 afraid 683:20 Africa 644:21 673:23 afternoon 768:9 785:20 786:1 788:11 age 702:16 719:1 agencies 758:8 805:1 agency 662:6 758:12 832:16 agree 646:8 650:23 651:19 687:2 692:18 693:1,10 694:21 730:22 743:22 776:24 809:6 agreed 652:23 653:6 654:9 669:9 706:20 782:23 agreeing 654:23 agreement 654:18 706:15 743:12 870:2 ahead 686:25 703:24,25 797:14 843:7 AHERA 758:24 792:23 793:15 817:5 AHERA/EPA 809:25 AIHA 723:20 724:5,14,19 727:9 air 720:15 725:7,8,18 731:24 732:3,4,5,7 749:10 759:8,10 airborne 749:10 alerted 762:11 Alerts 778:24 algorithm 843:4 Alice 871:11 allay 705:21 allegations 671:14 alleged 767:18 allowed 634:11 760:19 772:24 867:25 allowing 640:1,2 765:16 772:23 alongside 725:17 amazed 837:5 ambient 731:24 732:3,4,5,7 amend 766:13 America 726:15 742:2 American 667:9 723:20,22,23 724:5 725:24,25 726:15,16 792:15 amicable 706:22 amosite 673:23,24 674:11 736:12 815:6 amount 638:7,9,12,16 671:8 725:7 734:2,3 749:13 750:16 764:19 780:20 800:9 806:9 826:13 835:17 862:3 864:24 amounts 646:24 706:8 756:2 amphibole 673:18,20 701:5 736:14 746:4,21 750:6 753:24 754:1 755:25 756:5 815:5 830:16 833:17 860:16 861:21,25 amphiboles 701:12 736:7 746:5 751:7 752:17 753:6 755:9, 16 778:7 833:15 ample 767:14,25 768:3 analyses 743:1 analysis 644:11 665:24 706:13 724:8 729:11,18 733:12 739:6 740:19 745:1 752:16 753:7 759:7,13 765:23 790:1,4,21 792:20 800:9 803:1 806:6 815:25 816:7 817:22 821:16 827:22 828:14,23 830:24 842:15 847:12 848:2,25 852:10 862:24 863:25 analyst 802:5,22,25 805:8 807:4 843:3 analysts 807:19 818:4,8 819:21 830:21 831:4 839:19 843:18 848:7,8,15,25 analytical 713:25 716:22 859:15 analyze 715:2,14 718:11 722:20 734:4 739:3 744:8 745:18 746:25 792:16 811:13 842:1 843:3 analyzed 720:9 797:9 800:9 838:8,9 Index: advised..area analyzing 733:19 739:9 748:9 788:19 799:13 812:5 827:1 861:14 angle 827:18 angles 740:14 823:9 answers 642:23 809:10 anthophyllite 657:21 736:11, 22 756:2,15 797:18 798:2 799:8 802:8 804:23 806:1,5,15 807:16, 24 808:3,6,9,24 809:1 815:6,8 820:11 824:17 825:19 830:18 844:13 845:18 846:12,25 anticipate 871:4 874:20 anxious 705:21 anymore 868:22 apologize 719:17 apparatus 627:5 apparently 684:25 765:18 770:19 778:10 appearing 638:19 656:7 appears 659:25 668:23 744:4 797:17 833:12 appliances 671:22 application 677:4 716:11 applications 853:17 applied 795:21 805:3 808:8,9 apply 753:23 757:14 803:15 appreciates 785:22 appreciation 700:15 approach 630:20 658:20 690:18 691:5 696:4 714:6,7 790:15 791:21 834:17 854:23 859:18 860:8 approximate 744:11 approximately 720:10 755:19 762:8 Archdiocese 728:15 archive 838:6 archived 837:15 archives 838:7 area 636:14 682:2 693:10 717:8 734:4 775:19 791:11 816:6 823:10,20 859:17 866:25 areas 628:1 717:16 761:4 838:5 868:12 argue 768:6 argued 730:20 767:7 argument 761:14,21 772:19 777:3 871:5 875:10 argumentative 851:7 arguments 631:25 730:23 772:20 871:13 armor 704:2 arrangement 625:19 arrangements 741:24 arrive 859:11 art 684:8,12,21 article 627:23 628:6,7 644:25 653:23 654:11 656:4,7,12,13,15, 23 658:13 659:16 660:12,25 665:3,5,13,16,17 666:3,10 668:12,22 679:4 696:2,8 697:2 698:5 700:24 701:3,23 702:10 703:1,3 704:8,10 721:2 articles 628:11 633:19 653:20 655:11 660:4 719:24 760:23 780:24 868:3 asbestiform 738:12 752:17 756:8 757:8,20 758:5 794:20,24 795:2,14 816:1,8 822:18 825:8, 13 831:19 832:3,4,7,17,21,23 833:13,14,22 860:16 862:24 863:24 864:2 asbestos 624:15 626:16,24 628:12,16,24 630:3,6,9 631:19, 22 633:6,11 634:18,20 635:6 641:8 644:20,23 645:6,9 646:1, 25 647:21,24 651:13,21 654:25 657:5 658:2 659:24 660:7,15 661:7,14,15 662:9 664:4,18 665:11 669:20,25 670:6,15 671:24 672:20 673:6,18,20,23, 24,25 677:3 679:3,6,9 683:4 688:18 692:15 693:11,18,20,24 694:1,2,8,17,18,19,23 695:3 697:10 698:17 699:24 701:20,24 702:22 704:3,5,6,12,13 706:8 708:16,20,21 709:7,13 715:3 717:15,21,25 718:5,12 719:25 720:1,3,11,18 721:4,15,24 722:4,7,10,11,14 723:6 724:22 725:20 726:19 727:14,21 728:3, 10 729:1,3,4,9,15,19,20,24 730:4,6,14,15 731:10,13,22 732:2,6 733:11,12,20 734:10,25 735:15,17,18,23,24 736:6,15,18, 23.24 737:2,5,11,17,19,21 738:3,6,12,16,19 739:3,9 740:2, 15,16,21,23 742:25 743:17,24 744:8,22,23 745:1,19 746:1,4,13 747:1,8,15 748:10,12,19,23 749:3,4,9,14,17,22 750:4 752:23 753:24 754:2,15 756:9,12,25 757:1,4,13,14,25 758:13,15,17, 21.22.24 759:2,7,10,16 762:15, 25 763:2,8,17 764:7 765:14 769:13,16 770:19 773:14,16,17, 22 774:10,18 776:2 777:17,24 778:12 779:15 780:2 783:21 784:10 786:15 787:10,13,17,18 788:15,21 789:22,24 790:14,22 791:1,22 792:9,12,14,17,20 793:1,5,12 794:5,10,20 795:22 797:16,17,18,23 798:14,16 799:3,5,7 800:11 803:3,11,19,24 804:24 805:16,21 806:5,24 807:1,3 808:3,9,21 809:19 810:12,23 811:2,14 812:6,16 813:2,15 814:24 815:2,4,23 816:13,16,21 817:4,23 818:5,8, 13.15.16.22 819:4,19 820:8,11 821:8 822:7 823:5 824:11,17,21 825:3,13,19 826:10,14,19 827:2, 15.19.20.22 828:1,15,23 829:1, 3,9,17 831:25 832:24 833:7 834:9 839:21,23 840:4,7 844:8, 11 845:4,10,15,19,24 846:10,17, 21 847:10 848:4,16 849:13,22, 24 850:1,4,5 851:2,4,18 852:2,9, 11 854:12 856:3 859:11 861:7, 25 862:4,7,10,12 864:12 865:9, 10,11,16 873:22,25 asbestos-bearing 730:3 asbestos-containing 629:25 721:7 839:25 asbestos-contaminated 689:12 asbestos-type 808:24 asbestosis 693:20 695:9 699:23 Asian 845:6 aspect 738:11 758:7,9 789:3,6, Index: areas..authenticity 9,11,16 793:23 794:4,7,8,18 795:4 797:19,22 798:7,25 802:20 803:2,7 808:22 809:24 813:19 816:23,24 817:7,12,18 821:3 825:2 828:7 829:20 830:5 845:2,21,22 846:14,23 847:1 863:18 aspects 628:17,25 670:6 ASPEX 713:24 726:7 aspirin 853:25 assess 728:1 assessed 730:4 assessing 826:10 assignments 729:14 association 667:9 723:21,22 724:6 725:24 853:21 associations 700:2 assume 623:14 652:2 701:7 730:21 736:23 783:9 799:11 851:4 assumed 636:17 assuming 772:10 assured 706:11 ASTM 723:23 792:5,7 811:10 astonishing 764:2 Atlanta 713:20 714:2 719:4 atomic 741:24 atoms 741:22 805:21 attached 653:21 738:14 attention 662:19 773:3 775:1 784:19 attorney 631:23 attorneys 631:19 684:6 760:15 867:23 audiology 725:10 audiometer 725:12 auditors 724:14,15 727:25 831:5,8 August 641:24 708:17 859:7 authentic 765:24 784:6 787:6 authenticity 762:11 840:20 856:23 author 644:18 695:19 704:10 817:17 831:18 849:3 authoritative 831:24 authorities 728:9 787:20 866:6 authority 662:8,11 728:14 authors 664:15 702:10 automobile 630:4 availability 668:5 average 803:2,7,12 825:2 828:7,11 844:22 845:1,2,20 846:14,23 847:1 averaged 846:13 averages 634:2 avoid 772:23 791:19 859:18 avoidance 779:20 avoided 706:12 aware 628:10 643:20 660:3 665:22 683:18 764:11 B B2-b6 801:23 B6 802:2 B8 802:7 baby 651:4,8,12,25 652:1,4 654:11,24 660:14 661:8,13 705:22 708:15,16 729:6 731:8, 23 732:2,6 761:17 763:9,11,13 765:14 767:21 769:17 770:19 773:18 774:8 777:12 779:25 783:18 784:20 786:13 788:20 791:23 792:9 793:1 795:23 796:2,20 803:5 806:17 808:10 814:19 817:21 818:17 820:3 825:4,15 827:23 828:8 834:10 835:19 836:4,7 840:21 843:14, 25 846:6 849:13 850:23 851:1,2, 13 864:13 Bachelor 714:19 back 622:4 636:3 638:23 639:4, 17 641:15 642:1 647:19 648:19 655:8 661:17 662:11 664:16 665:8 666:20 667:1 669:13 674:13 676:17 679:12,17 681:14,22 682:14 683:22 687:18 693:13 696:14,15 709:16 711:3 712:13,22 721:17 727:7 739:6 752:20 754:5 760:3 768:8 776:10,15,23 778:2 779:8 781:13 785:21 786:2 788:4 792:1 793:8,18 800:22 809:15 812:8 813:12,24 814:22 839:4 841:3 863:16 867:9 869:12 background 650:15 714:18 731:24 backpay 688:23 backup 796:13,14 865:5 bacteria 734:20 bacterium 745:13,15 Bacteriums 745:13 bad 669:22 759:2 BAILIFF 622:1 712:14,20 761:9 785:16 balance 781:3 869:3 balanced 632:25 ballpark 636:1 637:23 678:5 Baltimore 688:6,24 728:16 Bank 711:22 bar 745:7 843:12 Barnes 869:25 Barry 622:15 680:13 681:7 682:15 based 635:14 642:21 666:8 699:15 740:17 746:1 773:13,15, 16 816:8 818:23 859:25 bases 779:5 basic 628:23 697:10 742:14 basically 688:1 695:19 728:19 731:5 basing 866:11 basis 723:25 744:6 batch 839:13 840:20 847:14 Bates 756:20 816:19 Battle 801:14 beam 733:1 805:9 Index: author..Bicks beard 737:16 beautiful 738:4,25 822:19 Beauty 822:22 bedrocks 832:17 Beethoven's 644:3 began 687:12 863:10 begin 622:11 712:25 761:14 785:19 835:13 beginning 683:9 772:15 778:2 837:6 853:8 begins 770:23 behalf 622:16 634:8 713:12 beholder 822:22 believed 652:20 believes 708:20 bell 664:13 bench 690:19 740:4 834:20 bend 741:17 bends 740:10 benzthonium 755:14 Berger 676:21 677:12 bet 675:3 bias 844:25 Bicks 622:12,20,23 630:20,25 631:5,8 641:2 646:18 650:5,8,10 651:2,6 653:13,18 654:15 656:18,22 657:15 658:20,22 659:4,6 660:16,21 663:12,18 665:19 668:14,18,21 670:3 680:2,7,11 681:22 685:23 690:4, 9 700:20 701:3 702:24 703:18 707:19 708:2 709:20 710:1,5,9, 12 712:1 730:20,25 743:6 751:22 761:19 762:11,19 764:24 765:2,5 766:21,24 768:13 772:19 773:22 774:23 780:12,15 781:5,16,24 782:1,4,10,14,17 783:1,6,9 784:12 786:19,24 808:11 811:19 812:17 814:4,7, 11 815:15,17 818:1 835:23 840:14,17 843:16 847:19 850:13,24 851:6,9 855:2,5,12 857:3,20,22 858:4,8 861:1 862:16 863:5 864:16,25 869:7 872:15 873:20,25 874:18 875:2, 12 big 630:4 728:20 734:23 737:11 751:5 757:13 806:8 825:11 862:3 bigger 747:22 863:18 Binder 796:13 biological 715:14 716:25 717:2,3 biology 714:19 734:13,15 bit 623:1 628:15 646:19 657:9, 11 687:16 691:24,25 719:9,10 732:16 759:3 796:19 807:8 809:23 810:10 825:23 830:1,19 833:4 834:25 835:10 847:7 blank 702:7 819:1 blended 832:13 blinders 673:1 blocks 630:1 Blount 746:20 751:11 797:11 812:15 813:8 833:3,9 871:11 Blount's 747:18 blow 654:15 659:6 668:19 681:25 blue 720:5 827:18,21 843:12 BMW 691:18,20 722:14,15,16 785:1,2 board 801:14 bodies 747:25 body 873:22,25 boilerplates 764:17 book 628:15,22,24 630:17,22,24 631:10,12,15,20 632:4,12 633:1 638:24 664:3 669:17 670:1,6 674:15 676:19,25 677:11 691:19 692:12 699:18,21 700:7 709:5 books 629:12,16,19 691:22 born 721:11 boss 689:18 875:4 Boston 728:15 bother 687:24 bottle 763:11 774:11,19 779:16 780:4 783:23 784:3 786:17 787:3 795:23 796:3 817:24 818:6,17,23 819:16,20 825:3 849:21 853:25 bottles 796:21 844:7 bottom 681:24 732:1 745:6 746:11 754:2,15 756:21 796:12 802:16 829:19 843:12 861:13 bought 767:20 bouncing 739:17 822:2 bound 780:19 Boundy 663:22 664:9 Bouquet 835:22 836:5,8 837:24 850:9,10,14,18 873:11 box 675:10,12 801:23,25 braid 826:23 brains 875:5 brakes 766:7 branch 717:1 brand 692:3 Braun-truan 682:4 break 712:12 738:19,21,23 759:25 760:3 768:6 814:10 834:24 835:8 867:8 breaking 708:21 805:14 849:11 breaks 790:9 breathe 757:18 breathing 627:5 720:16 Bridget 712:9 briefing 869:3,15 briefly 626:25 710:8 714:17 723:10 792:5 834:17 840:19 briefs 781:2 bring 624:20 633:7 641:2 681:11 716:19 768:1 774:25 786:2 brings 753:5 Britain 857:14 British 667:9,13 broadcasting 761:3 868:10 Brody 776:9 794:3 Index: big..calculation broke 841:14,15 broken 841:12 bromoform 755:13 brought 654:12 837:1 Brunswick 774:15 779:11,23 783:17 786:11 857:17 building 717:19 729:20 740:22 758:22 buildings 728:11 bulk 665:20 728:22,25 729:5,8, 11,18 730:13 732:23 757:12 759:7 823:5 bunch 656:1 657:25 678:4 774:18 825:25 842:15 bundle 738:8 745:2 791:22 797:18 798:16 802:8 819:9,12 820:14,16,23 821:1,7,8,17 822:7,13,17 823:8,10,11 825:21 833:11,12 834:9 bundles 744:24 758:3 789:3 810:11 818:5,17 819:15,17 825:3 831:10 833:16 834:2 866:8 bundling 822:4 Bureau 831:17 Burgess 663:23 664:1,2,3 buried 643:23 Burke 705:10 business 717:13 816:17 buy 628:22 bystander 676:15 C C-4 633:7 C2 635:13 calcium 829:24 calculate 825:2 864:3 calculated 802:20 865:9 calculating 819:15 calculation 636:16 818:3,7,13 852:13 864:11 865:8 866:1,5 calcu latio n s 864:18,19 865:6, 11,13 866:6 C alifo rn ia 716:8 call 623:3 664:22 682:9 712:9 713:5 757:22 758:3,7,15 794:20 807:2 810:11,15,17,18,20 826:16 852:24 861:9 862:11 872:17,19,20,25 873:5,13 874:6 called 628:16 637:18 662:3 669:21 670:12 673:18,22 675:22,23 682:4 691:18 713:12, 24,25 715:8 716:4,12 720:23 723:7 724:4 727:9,17 728:22 729:24 733:10,21 735:23,24 736:1,2,7,13 738:10,18 739:7,25 742:6 744:25 745:24 746:20 756:16 758:5,19 790:7 791:4 801:4 812:4 820:9 822:17 826:22 827:11 829:2 835:22 837:15 842:6 853:19 854:6 calling 794:9 C am pbell 831:18 c an cer 669:6 678:10,15 697:23 699:24 701:9 720:23 726:21 763:15 car 766:6 845:24 846:1,4,11,20 862:3 C ard iff 644:7 care 673:8 684:3 care er 637:21 709:9 717:11 carefully 629:14 cares 785:1 C aro lin a 664:12 838:4,12 carried 642:12 650:19 carry 772:17 case 622:8 624:3 625:23 626:15 631:24 632:15 634:14,15,17 635:24 637:13,16 644:19 659:18,25 671:15,18 672:6,9,12, 18 673:3,5,22 674:4,9 676:11 680:25 684:8,12,21 685:8 692:22 693:19 695:4,10,11,14, 18,21 699:10,14 706:12 721:13 722:17 725:16 731:6 732:17 754:13 760:6,8,13,21,25 762:13 763:21 765:8 766:2,7,17 767:14 770:3 775:13,17 776:1,7,15 777:15 785:24 809:10,13,16,24 826:16 829:22 830:13 837:5 856:8,19 865:2 867:12,14,15,19, 20 868:2,6 872:23 873:10,13 875:10 cases 625:24,25 626:3 634:12 635:5 637:3,10,23 638:2,6 672:10 673:9,11 682:20 683:4, 12 694:3,13 695:12 709:11 853:5 C ashm ere 835:22 836:5,8 837:24 850:9,10,14,17 873:11 C astlem an 622:15,21 631:10 633:9 650:11 651:10 660:23 663:19 680:8,13 682:15 699:8 708:6 709:5 catch 727:8 categories 630:13 728:20 843:8 category 630:7 735:22 844:18 causation 672:16 caused 777:12 784:2 787:1 cease 867:3 cells 716:3 cem en t 730:5,6 cen ter 650:17,20 651:7 686:10 689:1 715:8,9 748:20 central 642:4 762:15 773:18 centrifugal 753:23 755:8,15 cen trifug ation 750:7 centrifuge 753:22 754:8,12,13, 14,23 certainties 769:19 certainty 809:8 certificatio n 724:10,19 certificatio n s 723:9 certified 624:3,6 722:24 cetera 702:2 C FTA 853:20 chain 839:16 840:8 challenge 719:4 751:5 C halm ers 650:14 654:19 702:13 705:14 706:17 Index: calculations..Chinese C h alm ers' 653:6 654:10 chance 835:7,11 chances 636:18 Change 759:23 793:12 830:18 changed 726:7 841:5 channel 770:2 c h ap ter 629:15,16 670:7 676:20,22,24 c h aracter 842:4 ch aracteristics 740:17,18 816:9 834:1 characterizatio n 632:12 831:21 characterize 745:2 charge 637:7,11,12,15 Chart 803:8 806:9 835:19 836:9 861:9,12 chase 685:4 Check 724:16 742:16 759:9 803:16 807:17 checked 803:15 808:5 831:4 checking 725:4 ch eckm arks 802:11 chem ical 677:7 686:7 738:16 742:14 804:22 805:25 806:2 824:17 830:22 chem ically 828:14 chem icals 742:16 chem istry 738:13 741:3,8 742:20 759:16 789:23,24 790:5 791:9,10 793:24 802:24 803:16, 20 806:14 807:16 808:23 811:1 824:12 829:11,22,25 830:6,7 831:2,7 C h icago 643:4 ch ief 717:10 836:3 843:19 847:21 C hina 762:20 763:10 764:5 776:7 836:15 837:18 838:23 845:13 C hinese 775:24 776:2,14 778:5, 10 847:16 849:19 chink 704:1 C hireac 872:20 C hisone 625:1,2,4 628:11 chloride 755:14 chose 631:13 792:19 861:6 chosen 866:14 chrysotile 657:22 735:25 736:4,22 750:19,21,24 751:1,5, 7,9 763:8 769:16 774:10,17 775:23 778:4,9,10 779:14 780:2 783:21 786:15 815:5 chunk 794:22 chunks 825:11 cigarette 720:8 721:7,14 726:20 837:5,7,10 cigarettes 720:4,7,12 791:1 circle 756:14 C ircuit 767:15 circumstances 666:15 740:3 citing 698:20 C ity 728:13,15 claim 672:6 claim ing 671:24 claim s 684:6 clarification 870:9 clarifying 650:24 class 736:14 classed 736:11 clay 735:20,22 Clear 629:4 634:23 645:22 650:2 651:24 668:22 675:10 682:25 690:21 702:11 721:6 792:25 808:14 818:2 835:24 868:23 869:2,20 clearing 759:8 Client 766:9 813:21 836:24 clients 840:6 Close 670:20 778:16 866:23 Closer 744:5 819:10 822:6,14 Cluster 745:1,3 810:16 819:6,22 clustered 738:8 clusters 810:11 CNN 778:24 co -a u th o r 727:1 co-authored 848:1 849:6,7 co-counsel 874:12 cobbled 742:11 C ode 761:2 868:9 C olgate 838:6 C o lg ate-p alm o live 836:8 837:23 colleagues 701:8 collect 837:7 c o llecto r 837:12 collectors 837:2,3 838:7 college 666:25 687:10 726:16 752:14,15 colonies 734:23 c o lo r 720:6 740:16 C o lorado 642:13,16,18 643:2 711:2,14 colors 738:21 790:10 805:15 colum n 750:3 795:9 870:7 colum ns 657:16 749:20 com bination 745:3 com binatio n s 832:10 com bined 816:5 com bining 846:15 com m en t 654:23 676:11 com m en tato rs 795:4 com m ents 776:5 856:4 com m ercial 673:18,20 com m itm en t 867:2 com m itted 652:25 com m o nly 651:8,12,25 652:1 com m u nication 765:19 871:1 com m u nication s 640:19 679:19,22 681:8 Index: chink..concern com m u nities 677:9 com m u nity 688:17 699:15 709:12 com m ute 719:2 com panies 626:11 629:22,23, 24 630:2,4,5,6,9 652:11,13 655:4 656:7 658:12 700:7,11 722:12 731:17 742:15 811:24 839:24 840:1 com pan ies' 625:25 658:1 com pan y 634:18,20 642:22 643:16 645:8 646:9 661:18,24 662:17,25 669:21 670:25 691:18 692:10 699:24,25 700:3,8 713:23 716:4,5,8,12,15 717:1,7, 17,24 720:6 726:7 742:1 764:9 769:11 773:5 779:23 783:16 786:10 825:16 com parable 723:18 com pare 804:22 805:2 816:24 828:15 830:22 843:13,21 com pared 731:24 732:2,4 758:17 822:5 840:22 com pen satio n 684:4 c om peten t 707:21 com plain in g 687:21 com plete 631:20 687:10 com pletely 811:6 com pletio n 781:17 com pliance 724:17 com plicate 866:4 com plicated 687:16 com ply 724:18 com plying 829:10 com pound 630:1 698:9 com press 732:24 con cen trate 859:10 con cen tratio n 720:1 751:12 752:22 753:4,6 856:13 859:14, 24 860:4 862:5 864:12 concern 678:19 772:3 774:21 777:4 concerned 693:23 701:11 778:21 822:20 concerns 681:20 685:13 con cert 725:13 conclude 622:8 867:6,7 con clu d ed 656:4 875:25 concludes 690:5 con clu d in g 660:5 777:7 conclusion 668:24 795:8 872:5 conditions 693:2,5 con d u ct 761:2 767:11 769:3 868:10 c o n fer 874:12 con feren ce 690:19 702:4 708:17 725:25 834:20 confidential 752:4 con fid en tiality 703:17 confirm 784:1,2,5 786:25 787:2,5 confirm ed 787:12,14,18 con firm ing 698:15 confirm s 697:22 con fo rm ance 728:2 confuse 866:4 confused 850:16 con fu sin g 702:9 con fu sio n 650:21,23,25 con n ected 760:11 765:9 867:17 con n ectio n 674:9 conservative 794:14 817:1,6 con sid erab le 650:20 con sid ered 729:5,8 794:5,23 823:14 825:8 con sisten t 649:24 661:11 731:1 798:13 808:21,23 809:1 838:19 842:10,19 843:14 con sisten tly 651:13 con stitu tes 863:25 C o nstru cto rs 691:18,21 722:16 con su lt 875:4 c on su ltan t 633:16 686:6 689:18 713:23 con su ltan ts 700:1 751:18 con sultation 684:5 consulted 722:13 consulting 633:14 680:20 687:24 689:20 716:5,6 717:6 co n s u m er 669:5 761:16 787:12 811:24 contained 646:24 665:10 706:8 720:10 721:24 725:19 c o n tain er 720:15 841:13,18,22 con tainers 731:9,12 836:16,23 839:6,12 840:25 841:5,8 843:24 844:7 845:16 846:16,19,20 con tam in an t 736:16 con tam in an ts 736:19 con tam in ated 701:5,12 747:8 748:18 con tam in atio n 763:9 774:11, 18 775:22 778:12 779:15 780:3 783:22 786:16 contend 763:10 con tending 777:11,13 c on ten t 706:15,16 720:3 746:21 747:1 749:22 contents 842:2 con text 624:16,23 640:9 766:11 780:21 784:15 con tin u ally 859:9 continue 719:19 770:7 771:10 785:23 788:7,8 con tin u ed 717:4 763:13 con tin u es 622:7 continuing 622:19 697:20 con trib u ted 676:22 763:15 777:12 control 693:2 722:19 724:3 839:16 843:13,21 848:11 Index: concerned..country controlled 784:5 787:4 con tro versy 679:4 con veyin g 685:12 copies 814:10 co p p e r 800:12,15 801:2,3 804:5 copy 650:8 703:6 714:5,9 721:1, 2 782:8 814:6 840:14 857:21 c o r 701:15 co rn er 736:1 C orning 669:21 670:7,8 672:18 675:23 corporate 672:19 764:21,23 779:21 correct 623:4,6,10 632:15 648:1,13 671:1 679:23 683:13 691:23 697:5 702:10 705:3,4,22 706:21 708:13 710:25 728:19 735:3 744:13 755:6 756:23 789:18 793:11 805:25 812:14 815:20 820:25 829:20 830:5 838:24 839:2,9 841:1 845:14 861:7 869:19 correctly 632:2 cosm etic 657:5 667:16,18 668:24 669:5,8 700:25 703:23 711:24 746:21 749:17 784:8 787:8 835:21 844:4 853:20 860:16 861:6 cosm etics 750:1 853:17 cost 744:11 counsel 658:15 660:2 690:17 710:20 712:23 713:5 714:9 768:15 871:2 872:16 cou n t 794:13 799:10,16,21 800:1,7 802:6 809:19 810:2,6,7 811:4 827:24 844:22 845:20 848:7 852:2 863:12 865:14,16 counted 719:17 819:22 852:12 cou n terfeit 784:6 787:6 c ou n terp art 782:15 counting 750:11 countless 699:25 cou n try 637:4 759:3 counts 674:23 675:16 694:10 866:11 C ounty 688:6,24 couple 664:23 679:11 688:3 716:6 720:17,19,20 742:11 746:18 767:6 833:5 835:7 853:9, 11 court 622:3,9,18 630:21 631:3 632:8,22 639:9 650:4,7 653:16 656:20 658:19,21,25 659:2,3 660:19 663:16 668:16 680:3,5 682:21 684:15,22 685:10 690:5, 7,17,21 691:1,3,6 696:6,18 698:10 699:3 707:12,15,18,23 709:21,24 710:7,10 712:2,5,16, 22,24 713:3,4,7,9,13,15 714:8 730:11,18,24 731:1 743:7 751:23 760:1 761:5,11,13,22,24 762:3,6 764:3,25 766:21,23 767:4,14 768:3,13 769:7 770:10, 22 771:4,20 772:2 773:22 777:7 779:9,18 780:11,14,17,25 781:2, 3,9,25 782:3,16,25 783:4,7,12 784:21,22,25 785:4,8,12,18,21 786:1,7,21 787:21,25 788:2,6 796:14 808:16 811:20 812:21,23 814:13 815:14,18 834:19 835:1, 4,6,13,14 836:1 847:25 850:20 851:10 854:24 855:17 857:2,4 858:2,5,11 860:9 861:2 863:4,6 867:5,21 868:17,20,21 869:4,8, 18 870:11,14,17,19,23 871:7,16, 22 872:5,7,9,14,15 873:24 874:5,15,18,23,24 875:6,8,9,17, 23 C ourt's 775:1 780:19 783:8 786:6 788:2 868:22 cou rt-su p ervised 797:2 courtroom 622:2 634:24 640:5 712:15,21 739:16 761:4,10 780:22 785:17 868:12,16 courts 639:19,25 co v er 630:16,23 631:11,14 632:3,17,19 747:21 covered 695:21 covering 677:19,20 678:23 706:18 create 730:8 770:3 772:25 created 650:20 692:21,23 762:8 cred entials 639:20 cred ib ility 770:15 criteria 800:5 critical 652:14 cro cid o lite 644:21 720:10,18 729:9 736:12 791:1 815:7 cross 690:5,22 771:15 826:12 834:6 868:24 cro ss-co ntam in atio n 784:1 787:1 cro ss-exam in ation 622:19 681:2 691:7 777:21 873:18 cro ss-exam in e 770:25 cro ss-exam in ed 639:12 crystal 791:13,14 crystalline 757:23 790:13 805:17 830:9,23 crystallinity 741:5 759:17 824:7 C TFA 854:20 856:2 857:8 858:18,19 860:14 862:19 cube 847:6 cubic 675:5,9,11,17,20 676:1 694:12,14 698:4 culpable 767:10 769:3 curious 641:12 curren t 793:20 curriculum 714:5 curvature 823:3 834:7,15 curved 822:24 823:5,6 custod y 839:16 840:8 c u sto m er 628:19 cut 685:4 730:7,8 c u to ff 862:9 cutting 715:25 C V 685:20,24 686:3,4,6 689:4 714:12 719:18 725:22 CVS 686:3 Index: counts..defendants D D.C. 727:16 828:22 D.D. 705:9 D 5755 792:7 d an g e r 627:16 669:24 dan g ero us 673:24 677:22 d angers 624:15 683:18 dark 824:1 D artm outh 752:12,14,15 753:3 754:17 data 723:2 796:13 818:4 date 660:24 680:19 722:20 748:4,5 776:10 786:5 800:8 dated 680:14 752:5 814:17 816:2 855:4,25 dating 665:9 day 622:6,8,10 641:23 707:3 719:3 760:16 762:25 772:8 809:13 867:4,6,8,24 875:1,2,3, 22 days 688:3 773:12 deal 631:25 667:16 707:24 775:18 dealing 709:11 dealt 652:15 D ear 681:6 death 677:5 695:1 698:21 death-rates 701:17 deaths 678:9,11,12 debate 795:3 debates 773:13 decide 692:7 718:19 decided 626:6 689:17 deep 664:19,22 795:17 defect 769:4 d efend an t 872:18 874:8 defend an ts 634:10 683:15 784:25 869:14 D efendants' 631:4 649:25 defense 628:22 631:25 634:13 686:12 703:19 define 816:20 defined 815:4 832:11 defining 757:5 758:21 d efinition 756:8 757:4,11 810:22 813:15,20 814:24 815:2 816:15 817:3 825:14 831:11 863:17 definitions 831:15,20 d efinitive 816:10 d egrade 737:9,10 degree 687:8 714:19 734:12,13 809:8 832:12 degrees 687:11 D elco 671:25 delib eratio n 760:13 867:20 D em ent 663:23 664:1,2,4 d em on strate 831:6 dem on stratio n 737:12 d em on strative 690:13,14,15 691:10 696:16,19 dense 755:5 d en ser 755:4 d ensities 750:21 753:25 d en sity 746:2,3,8 750:21,24 754:12 778:6 813:9 836:20 dental 671:21 873:9 departing 872:16 d ep artm en t 634:21 652:3 688:6 715:24 752:12 756:24 departure 688:4 depending 830:2 840:9 depends 736:20 749:22 758:11 827:18 depose 873:21 deposed 700:11 874:2 d eposit 625:4 663:5,6 665:23 710:14,17,18,21,24 832:9 deposition 624:23 707:16 782:20 869:24 870:3 871:9,10, 17 872:22 873:3,15,19 874:20 875:9,15 dep o sitio ns 634:5 699:25 700:12 deposits 665:10 749:23 830:2 832:11 d escribe 714:25 724:20 745:21 752:19 754:4 755:7 758:21 832:3 d escribes 721:3 748:11 759:12 describing 681:20 757:21 description 833:20 858:18 859:21 descrip tion s 759:6 design 769:4 designated 873:1,14 874:7 d esignation 723:7 724:13 782:21 821:14 d esig n atio n s 723:19 869:9 designed 841:21 desire 705:20 destruction 677:10 detail 666:4 681:15,25 759:23 details 649:1,13 666:5 739:23 796:18 detect 658:6 661:15 734:1 735:5 749:17 757:9 762:15 777:16 852:1 862:7 detectab ility 859:5,11 d etectable 844:8 845:24 846:16 865:16 detected 763:1,2,18 764:7 773:17 778:5 801:22 817:23 849:22,25 850:4 851:18 852:5 861:16 864:2 detecting 721:4 747:15 748:22 788:15 792:20 detection 733:5,7,22 744:8 747:1 816:8 850:3,7 852:6,25 853:1 856:3 858:24 863:22,24 864:1,3,6,14 Index: Defendants'..director d etecto r 733:2,8 detectors 739:20 determ in atio n 811:14 determ ine 623:18 656:10 661:25 715:2 717:14,21 721:23 729:19 730:14 731:10 748:10 788:20 789:22 818:4 827:2,3 828:14 833:21 841:4 determ in in g 643:22 658:1 develop 778:8 d eveloped 724:8 753:8 d evelo pm en t 631:21 d evelops 716:8 d iagnosed 695:9 diagnosis 673:7 776:10,17 died 645:7 difference 698:23 739:10 d ifferences 652:10 866:21 d ifferently 709:18 783:2 d ifficu lt 734:7 750:25 811:7 841:10 diffraction 623:23 666:1 732:22 733:7 738:18 741:5,7 742:19,21 743:16,23 759:17 790:8 791:12 793:25 794:1 802:22 807:20 808:25 811:5 816:6 824:13,14, 23,24 830:12,13 831:2 853:10, 14 854:7,9,10,14,16 856:9 857:9 858:21 860:18 861:15,16,20 862:6 d iffra c to m e te r 733:4 digging 751:2 d im ensions 822:3 828:1 830:16 direct 640:21 644:13 645:13 651:17 652:8 664:17 667:6 668:2 677:14 685:20 690:22 694:6 703:25 711:19 713:16 853:8 d irectly 796:24 839:7 843:25 845:16 d ire cto r 642:4 705:7 716:4,25 717:2,3 disagreed 653:1,3 d isclosed 645:10 768:13,14 865:1,4,6,7 873:7 disco vered 759:2 disco very 684:2 700:11 742:23 763:23 discuss 712:17 760:8 791:2 792:8 848:17 856:13 858:6 867:13,15,20 868:20 871:14 discussed 629:22 647:3 712:24 790:16 833:10 discusses 746:17 817:11 d iscussion 629:19 706:14 768:12 785:15 795:3 833:6,20 850:24 856:2 d iscu ssio n s 768:15 848:24 disease 664:5 677:5 694:24 695:2,13 697:23 698:22 699:13 701:10 776:11 diseases 669:25 dism issed 874:9 dispersion 827:11 861:19 d ispersive 791:8 816:7 displayed 834:2 d isplaying 834:2 dispute 659:20,22 678:17 762:10,15 763:16 773:18 838:16 856:23 distance 800:25 805:21 807:25 d istinctive 827:20 distin g u ish 806:4 distribu tio n 841:25 D istrict 767:15 disturbed 841:16 dive 664:19,22 divide 789:10 847:17 divided 789:13 847:14 dividing 798:7 847:13 docket 875:15 d o cto r 624:7,13 629:5 692:10 695:15 703:17 710:13 716:18 723:3 791:17 797:8 809:5 821:5, 12 855:9 doctoral 632:9 640:13,16 doctors 695:17 d o cu m en t 641:16 645:17,19 648:18 659:14 670:25 676:9 681:1 685:18 701:25 702:3 704:25 707:7 708:1,6,10,25 743:3,10,20 752:1,5 754:4,17 756:4,10 759:6 762:7 763:23 764:16 765:17,18,25 766:15 770:6 774:4,7,22 777:5,10 780:7 781:3 784:15 792:23 812:2 813:7,25 814:17,25 815:3,25 816:15 840:15 855:3,11,13,24 856:6,11,16,24 858:7,9,12,16 859:1 860:21 862:23 863:11,14 869:17 d o cu m en tation 631:21 840:23 d o cum ented 745:5 800:5 docu m en ts 671:16 672:3,19 700:3,9,13,17 742:22 751:15 777:15 813:4 817:10 833:5 854:19 857:23 dollars 636:7 637:15 744:13 d o m in an t 755:25 dots 737:17 805:19 do u bt 778:25 779:2,20 833:16 drafted 695:14 dram atic 783:10 d raw 702:12 720:15 784:18 drug 774:9,16 779:13 780:1 783:19 786:13 853:24 854:3 drugs 716:9 dryw all 729:5 due 869:21 duly 622:17 713:13 dum ping 687:21 durable 737:8 dust 630:23 631:11,14 632:3,17, 19 669:25 671:8 674:23 675:15 677:8 693:5,6,8 694:10 697:9,18 701:6,16 725:8 730:9 788:16 792:12,13,17 Index: disagreed..electron dusted 704:5,12 dusting 704:2 dusty 675:7 694:9 duty 760:12 867:18 E e-m ail 776:25 e a rlie r 660:8,9 698:21 744:17 759:15 769:1 788:24 809:23 810:10 813:5 818:25 821:14 826:5 854:8 869:13,24 early 626:17 665:9 683:22 695:4 709:1 742:8 783:25 786:24 835:10 850:11 860:20 earth 694:17 752:12 e as ier 639:22 657:13 easily 652:19 719:6 733:15 737:9 Eaton 766:22,23,24 768:5 771:11,22 772:7 776:22 781:10, 14 782:20 784:14,24 785:2 eb a y/co llec to r 836:24 ED 791:8 edict 759:4 edition 630:23 631:10,17 632:3, 17,20,23 670:5 editio n s 628:20 691:19 editorial 710:16 EDS 802:11,24 803:20 830:3 edu catio n 686:16 687:10 edu catio n al 714:17 ED X A 829:12 ED X R A 816:7 effect 653:1 661:20 765:12 effo rt 656:9 666:13 700:10 efforts 717:18 elected 744:1 electron 623:21,25 665:25 715:1,6,7,11,12,23 716:13 718:4,7,8 727:21 733:14,18 734:8 738:2,4,14,15,18 739:2,7, 8.11.14.18.22 740:24 741:5,6,9, 10.14.19.22 742:2,5,18,19 743:13,16,22,23 744:7 750:15 757:16 759:13 790:1,2,3,8,10 793:25 794:1 799:12 805:9 811:13 812:5 816:2,6 821:18,22 822:1,7 829:8 842:23 862:25 863:1,8 electron ic 791:11 electron s 738:18,22 739:11,19 741:18 790:11 805:16 822:2 824:1 elem en ts 803:24 804:8 E llen b ecker 674:5,7,8 ELM O 631:5 670:3 685:23 699:9 725:21 744:10 752:2 791:15 793:8 811:23 814:15 819:3 838:18 839:11 857:6,17 elo ng ated 813:18 816:22 863:17 em b ed d in g 715:25 E m ergency 758:25 em p hasize 783:2,3 em p lo yed 695:7 701:16 813:20 e m p lo ye r 692:18 693:1,7 e m p lo ym en t 686:4,15,17,19 687:4 715:17 EMU1 742:7 EM U 2 742:7 e n c o u n te r 637:9,14 enco u rag ed 639:7,13 end 694:23 717:11 756:20 762:25 764:16 807:3 808:2,3,4 822:10 835:10 866:23 875:22 ends 820:15 823:12,21,24 824:2 834:3,13 energ y 708:22 732:25 733:1 791:8 816:7 e n g in e er 861:9 England 694:7 enh an ce 639:15 640:7 enh an ced 639:8 ensure 784:7 787:7,17 e n te r 761:15 871:11 entered 622:2 712:21 765:16 785:17 entire 708:1 entitled 815:25 831:18 entity 709:6 entry 674:22 en viro n m en t 737:5 758:14,22 784:5 787:5 enviro n m en tal 646:7 686:12 724:9 726:17 832:16 EPA 758:16 792:18,21 793:15, 20 794:3,17 809:18 817:9 EPA'S 795:8 EP A /A H E R A 758:19,20 793:10 811:10 epidem io lo g ical 695:5 epidem io lo g y 627:22 628:3 693:22 694:15,20 equal 816:23 eq u ip m en t 744:14 erro n eo u s 647:15 e rro r 706:13 768:1,19 772:25 777:4 essence 776:6,13 essen tially 633:22 724:25 737:7 805:5 824:1 852:16 872:4 e stab lish ed 856:25 estim ate 737:19 estim ates 676:14 evalu atin g 662:18 859:2 evalu atio n 750:8 event 775:7 even tu ally 727:8 858:18 e ver-w id en in g 677:9 evid en ce 631:1 653:14 684:18 697:8,12,16 698:2,22 721:2,13 760:8 761:15 763:12 766:15,16 769:2,8 770:2 772:22 778:11 782:9 799:20 867:13 871:12 evo lved 693:11 Index: electronic..expensive exact 754:10 800:23 821:21 833:14 838:9 865:22 873:20 exam in atio n 699:6 713:16 750:10 874:1 exam in ed 656:1 695:6 874:10 exam in in g 750:16 776:4 exam p les 734:7 749:23 exceed 787:15 exceeds 636:25 868:24 E xcellent 622:24 excep tio n 771:12,19 excess 678:9,11 exclude 859:14 exclu d in g 767:16 excuse 755:23 790:16 797:21 801:8 excused 709:25 712:7,11 766:4 execu tives 705:12 exh ib it 631:4 635:14 641:3,21 645:18 649:25 656:17 658:24 663:12 668:11,16 680:1 690:12 691:10 696:12 703:19 704:16 705:1 707:9,16 714:5,6 743:4,8 751:20,24 752:4 755:7 756:19 762:7 763:24 765:9,10,18 766:3, 14 773:7 775:2 780:9 782:7,16 783:7 786:4,6,7,23 811:17,18,20 813:23,24 814:3,14,24 815:11, 12,19,20 854:22 855:19 856:22 857:5 860:1,7,12,25 861:3 862:15 exhibits 700:19 exist 737:7 763:25 766:5 771:3 852:10,20,21,22 existen ce 762:12 768:14 exists 625:6 697:24 806:21 exited 712:15 761:10 868:16 exp ect 658:7 870:16 exp ectatio n 683:17 692:24 exp ected 678:13 exp ectin g 772:13 exp en sive 744:13 exp erien ce 648:8 exp erien cin g 697:9,17 e xp ert 623:2,21 624:10,19 638:1,5 647:19 664:11 674:5 683:7,10 730:12 769:10 771:8 772:1 775:22,24 776:8 865:1,5 872:17 873:1,2,6,13 874:6 exp ertise 623:8 627:2 642:21 exp erts 637:5 642:23 646:14 719:11 763:16 795:11 845:22 explain 645:10 695:11 727:12 728:24 730:2 731:15 '18'21 /32:1/ /33:24 /35:16 /44:20 745:22 757:3 794:17 800:1 805:3 808:18 809:21 836:2 839:12 840:18 exp lain ed 778:5 819:21 exp o sed 671:24 709:6 737:22 749:12 exp o su re 644:20 669:5,8 671:15 672:7,13 673:24 674:2, 14,19 676:5,7 688:17 693:8 704:13 730:10 732:4,6 749:2,12 7fi3-15 7fi7'18 exp o su res 676:14 694:2 697:9 731:22,23 732:2 776:9 874:2 exp ressed 705:19 exp ressly 873:22 874:6 extended 795:5 exten sively 664:4 exten t 693:6 extractin g 694:16 eye 737:3,21 822:22 eyes 778:16 F fab ricated 681:16 fac ility 671:19,25 fact 674:22 677:25 679:22 705:23 711:18 724:23 731:12 756:7 766:3,4 769:14 778:9 821:23 833:22 837:5 849:24 facto ries 693:17,20 fac to ry 838:14 factu al 647:19 failed 705:24 fa ir 623:2,5,7 626:17 629:23 633:23,25 634:19 635:21 638:7, 9,12 641:25 652:10,18 666:21, 22 672:23,25 673:10 687:2 689:7 690:1 698:18 764:19 872:25 fairn ess 782:12,18 fall 725:6 fa se 784:2 787:1 fa m ilia r 623:11 628:2,6 642:15 645:2 648:15,21 655:7,23 656:2 662:5 663:3,6,8 664:22 665:21 6667 667 15 695 22 25 696 2 743:20 746:19 756:24 812:1 817:14 831:9,17 856:16 858:13 860:11 fam ilia rity 627:21 fam iliarize 644:24 fam ily 718:20 837:25 fan c y 791:6 799:23 Farinas 781:22 783:14 785:6 869:11,20 870:13,18,21 871:9, 18 872:1,8,11 875:13,21 fash io n 837:19 869:1 fast 755:1 770:2 fat 789:17 fa tte r 756:16 FD A 708:18 724:1 762:19,21 763:5,7,20 764:4,11,12 765:2, 11,17,19,20,21 769:15 770:18 773:9,20 775:8 779:13 786:14 869:16 F D A 'S 770:12,17 784:9 787:9 FE 804:2,18 fears 705:21 February 855:4,25 fed eral 792:22 796:14 fed eratio n 747:24 feel 859:4 Index: experience..filing feet 694:12 698:4 fe llo w 682:3 fem ale 643:12 ferro -an th o p h yllite 820:10 821:7 822:18 ferro u s 804:20 fe w e r 794:13 fib e r 729:24 730:15,16 734:25 737:11 738:7,19 745:2 755:9,16, 25 756:5,14,15,16 757:25 758:13 769:13 789:12 790:5 791:21 794:23 797:23 798:14 __ _______ ____ 799:3,7 806:23 807:6 808:4 813:15 816:11,16,21 819:13 820:25 821:22 824:18 828:1,14 829:17 834:2,9 844:19,22 845:20 848:16 863:17 864:3,12 866:7,9 fib ers 661:7 698:4 708:21 720:20 733:20 737:17,19,20,21 738:14 740:2,8,10 744:8,24 749:7 756:12 757:14,17 758:3,4 759:10 789:3 790:22 791:1 792:20 793:12 806:21 810:10. 12,14 818:5,16 819:8,15,18,19 820:15,21 822:4,13,16 823:6 825:3 829:9 831:10 833:21 834:1,4,5,7 844:21 846:13,22,24 847:10 852:10,11,16,19 864:7,9 865:9,10,14,15,19,21,24 866:7, 12,18 fib rils 736:10 833:16 fib ro u s 756:7 757:21,23 806:22, 23 815:4,5 field 646:6,15 654:25 663:24 664:7 669:13 716:13 722:2 fig u re 636:10 646:6 843:6 fig u red 636:13 fig u res 675:21 figuring 866:10 file 708:7 767:5 768:5,7 776:24 869:14,15 filed 875:13 files 682:3 707:7 709:16 743:4 751:15 766:9 854:20 860:21 filing 874:4 filled 753:19 film 800:16,17 filte r 720:5 721:7,15 729:9,10 filtered 720:4 filters 720:8 726:20 826:12 final 860:14 867:19 fin ally 731:21 739:25 778:16 Finch 631:2 650:6 653:15 656:19 658:17 659:1 660:18 663:15 668:15 680:4 690:13,15, 24 691:2 696:13 698:8 699:5,7,9 702:7 707:9,14,16 708:5 709:23, 25 710:3 712:2,3,18 713:2,4,17 714:3,9,11 721:20 725:21 727:7 730:11,19,22 731:3,4 743:3,9 744:10 751:20,25 752:2,20 759:22 762:6 768:23 770:14,25 771:6 773:4 776:6 777:6,8,9 779:10,19 781:12,15,19 782:6, 13,19,23 783:3,11,13,14,16 784:21 785:10,25 786:10 787:23 788:1,8,10 791:15 792:1 793:8, 18 797:25 808:17 811:16,23 813:12,23 814:1,5,9,15,16,22 815:11,16,21 819:1 820:2 834:17,22 835:3,13,14,15 838:18 839:4,11 840:12,16 850:17,21,22 851:8,11 854:22 855:1,3,7,8,10,15,18 856:21 857:6,21,25 858:14 860:6,10,24 861:4 862:20,22 865:3 866:22 870:24 871:20,25 872:21 874:12,16 875:4,7 find 655:11 659:24 661:22 708:20 720:9 734:10,20 751:3 758:14 763:6 764:2,8,9 765:21 800:4,22,23 817:1 837:6 852:9, 24 853:4,5 861:17 864:9 872:8, 12 fin d in g 644:16 683:17 720:22 873:21,25 fin d in gs 666:7 744:4 finds 695:14,15 747:3 fine 622:24 669:23 687:20 739:23 743:6 766:7 796:11,12 fin g erp rin t 738:16,24 790:14 fin g ers 810:14 823:14 fin ish 796:10 834:22 fin ish ed 744:6 763:4 814:18 fired 687:17 688:14,16,20,21 689:7,11,15 fireproo fin g 678:25 679:2 firm 625:22 637:9,14,16,17,18, 20,24 638:4,8,18 672:11 679:13 682:25 firm s 716:7 fist 789:17 fit 630:12 745:14 817:2,3 843:4 844:17 845:3 fits 799:1 844:17 five-to -o n e 789:14 794:15 795:1,12,18 817:7,12,18 flat 736:3 806:18,19 842:8 843:1,2 flaw ed 667:24 flexib ility 757:6,10 flexib le 823:6 flo at 746:10 757:17 flo o r 840:4 flo tatio n 859:3 flo w ch a rt 861:10 fluid 754:12 826:9,11 focu sed 630:7 641:9 focu sing 629:24 673:1 874:21, 23 folks 631:6 657:2 658:2 663:21 678:5,7,22 837:25 838:1 fo llo w 723:1 725:3 778:20 788:19 789:21 791:20 793:6 831:14 861:6 fo llo w -u p 710:1 Food 774:8,16 779:13 780:1 783:19 786:13 fo o t 675:6,10,11,17,20 676:1 694:14 foo tb all 769:25 force 753:23 forced 647:14 fo re v e r 737:7 Index: filled..full forew o rd 630:22 631:9 fo rg o t 705:16 fo rgo tten 789:8 form 658:17 681:4,7 698:8 735:21 741:4 742:17 755:9,16, 25 756:5 757:12,22 759:15 789:1 791:6 807:1 808:22 833:12 834:4 844:15,17 form al 714:25 form atio n s 736:20 826:22 form s 673:25 815:5 fo rm u la 805:25 806:2 forw ard 712:24 780:23 868:14, 23 forw ard-lo o kin g 764:18 F o ster 705:10 fou n d 661:6,13 681:3 701:6,24 720:19 736:18 749:24 751:6 755:10 770:19 773:21 775:23 778:9,10 784:10 787:10 792:12 795:22 797:15 801:21 802:7 818:14 820:8 821:15 824:18 825:3,20 834:9 844:11,20 846:10 848:16 851:2 852:21 fou n d atio n 708:3 812:17 855:6,7,13,15 856:25 857:22,24 858:1,6 864:16 fou n d atio n s 629:8 fractio n 801:11 fractio nal 695:8 frag ran ce 853:20 fram e 825:16 849:17 857:8 Francisco 716:8 Fred 644:6 711:2,11 free 651:13 701:7,12 708:16 787:19 851:4 free ly 703:5 Friday 768:9 874:21 friend s 727:4 fro n t 623:20 685:10 696:9 714:14 782:6 800:7 full 688:23 700:6 862:4 869:5 fu lle r 700:14 fun ctio n 669:7 Fund 686:12 fu n n y 806:25 Fusco 635:24 futu re 669:8 G gained 705:17 g ath er 643:1,9 gave 622:7 651:16 691:9 765:21 814:5,9 869:13 G enentech 716:7 g eneral 624:11,19 642:21 648:7 667:8 672:2 693:22 697:24 743:12 g en erally 634:12 662:23 667:25 692:20 700:4 745:22 812:16 831:23 832:23 833:15 839:2 840:18 generated 744:2 g entlem an 727:1 g entlem en 713:5 786:1 g eological 665:9 826:21 830:2 832:9 geo lo g ist 623:5 g eo lo g y 826:19 G eorgia 713:21 714:2,21,23 715:5,22 give 635:9 637:23 640:3 676:4 678:5 700:14 715:17 724:19 734:6,7 745:11 835:7,10 847:3 866:17,19 874:18 875:7 giving 809:7 873:9 glad 625:2 750:20 glass 734:22 735:1,7 gleaned 699:25 global 787:20 gold 661:25 663:22 good 622:3,12,14,21,22 628:19 639:18 642:22,25 646:11 648:9, 12 650:24,25 655:21 667:21 669:22 676:24 677:1 689:8 691:9 713:4 737:12 741:6 777:16,23 786:1 788:11 809:4 811:1 820:14 822:20 875:6 G oogle 760:23 772:16 868:5 gosh 741:12 G o u ve rn e u r 710:14,17,21 g o vern m en t 634:18,21 662:5 725:25 818:9 g radatio ns 832:9 grade 826:20 gradu ally 636:20 graduate 715:19 grains 737:13 gram 817:23 818:14,15,20 819:19 844:20,21 845:20,21 846:13,22,24 847:4,10 852:13 864:12 865:15,21 gram s 746:2,7 818:21 g ra n d d a u g h ter 718:21 graph 803:23 842:22 843:8 graphed 843:7 graphic 803:21 842:20 grass 715:25 grasses 716:1 gray 827:17 great 631:9 733:8 753:1 857:14 g reater 640:12 735:3 774:18 779:15 780:3 783:22 786:16 789:19 793:24 794:5,7 803:10 816:23 green 736:1 G R E E N E 871:23 872:2 grid 800:14,20,23 801:4,5,17,23 802:1,2,7 804:5 829:7 865:20 ground 652:20 826:19 grounds 812:18 group 646:21,22 647:12 658:7 697:21 706:1,2,3,6,11,13 717:4 723:14 724:7 738:8 746:5 810:13 815:5 837:14,22 844:18 Index: fuller..Harvard 845:8 853:19 groups 810:12 820:15 836:11 grow s 757:22 grow th 757:8,20 guess 642:20 652:24 664:18 665:2 671:17 676:20 678:15 687:16 781:21 804:18 843:11 853:10 861:9 guy 652:18 guys 740:5 866:4 H habit 757:8,20,23,24 758:5 h air 644:3 hairs 737:14 half 686:9 687:14 688:12 719:7, 19 745:12,15 773:7 810:4 halfw ay 726:10 ham 783:11 H am m ond 683:16 H am pshire 752:13 hand 696:8 713:10 734:21 735:7,8,12 757:13 handful 870:25 handling 676:15 hands 834:6 handw ritten 640:23 641:4 happen 667:2 764:15 870:18 happened 626:5 647:20 706:24 765:1 773:6 774:25 776:7 811:25 happy 624:18,20 635:25 671:12 703:7 hard 657:11 715:15 764:8,10 h arder 751:8 harm 769:1 h arm less 701:6 H A R N E Y 785:7 H arvard 662:21 663:1,3 hatching 832:21 Haw aii 728:15 hazard 669:10 671:3 hazardous 687:22 758:24 hazards 626:24 631:22 664:18 672:17,20 693:11 699:24 709:13 725:6 head 643:9 656:16 866:1 headed 717:17 heads-up 874:19 health 624:16 629:9 632:11 640:14 646:7 662:5,8,21 663:1,4 669:10 671:3 685:6,16 686:8 688:6 697:21 699:15 703:13 709:10,11 711:15,21 725:2 787:20 794:6,10 866:6 healthy 725:5 h ear 638:11 640:6 654:23 732:17 777:18 783:12,14 heard 624:10 643:5,6,17 644:8 645:13 647:22 664:23 667:1 674:7 683:22 719:10 720:5 725:10 730:20 732:16 735:14 768:23 777:6,20 780:25 789:7 833:4 845:25 hearing 632:13 688:17 690:20 761:25 834:21 847:23 heat 737:9 h eavier 753:14 heavily 701:12 heavy 745:25 746:17 747:13 750:7,13 751:12 752:22 753:19 754:1,12,15 755:3,8,15 778:6 790:20 797:12,13 812:15 813:8 836:19 851:23 853:2 859:21 860:3 held 626:22 652:19 690:19 785:15 834:20 H ercules 687:13 688:2 hesitate 655:5 hexagon 807:11 hexagonal 807:9 hey 692:14 711:11,15 high 635:22 734:15 737:9 740:5 749:2 754:14 757:6 804:9 820:10 844:25 846:23 852:6,24 862:9 h ig h er 636:20 675:6 697:22 732:5,7 789:16 794:8,12 795:1, 15 800:17 819:25 821:4 822:9 highest 844:24 h ig hlight 651:6 657:15 661:5 665:7 779:19 highlighted 626:25 657:16,17, 21 658:11 748:13 781:23 795:9 802:15 870:2 h ig h lig h ter 781:8,9 highly 774:2 H ildick-sm ith 705:11 hin d sigh t 683:21 H IPA A 703:15 hire 642:22 hired 625:22 633:17 634:21 638:1 639:14 716:22 762:23 hires 672:11 historical 731:19 797:1 837:15 840:22 846:3,7 850:23 851:12 h istory 644:19 673:6 686:4,5, 15,18,19 687:5 709:7 715:18 hit 739:19 769:20 778:22 hold 623:20 675:15 hole 872:8,12 h o m eow ners 840:3 honestly 874:19 H o no r 630:20 631:1 658:20 663:12 680:4 690:10 696:4 707:10,17 709:23 710:2 712:3 713:2,8 714:3,7 730:11,25 731:3 751:20 759:22 761:19 762:7 764:20 765:16 766:12,22 767:1, 25 768:19 769:18 770:5 771:11 772:7 773:4 775:19 776:22 777:9,25 778:16 781:5,20 782:24 784:14 785:11,25 786:19 787:24 788:9 797:25 808:11 811:16 812:18 814:2 818:1 834:18 835:23 843:16 847:19 850:13 851:6 854:23 855:16 856:21 857:25 860:24 862:16 Index: hatching..identified 863:5 865:4 866:22 869:11 870:10,13 871:6 872:3,21 874:14,25 875:14 H onor's 778:21 hood 737:1 hope 622:5 628:20 683:15 hoping 682:20 H opkins 640:13 658:23 660:17 663:13 685:16 687:8 768:6 777:2,19 869:19 870:24 871:18, 20 hospital 645:24 651:19,20 hospitals 645:25 hosting 625:19 hot 677:19 h our 712:13 719:5 867:1 hours 719:7 853:9,11 hou sekeep in g 868:18 huge 694:2 704:1 737:22 hum an 717:14 737:14 hundred 636:7,17,21 694:13 850:1,2 hundreds 694:11 698:3 717:23 720:20 722:9 865:24 hurt 684:8,20 685:8 hydrated 735:18 hygiene 624:5 664:3 723:20 724:5,21 725:24 736:25 h ygienist 624:4,6 725:11 hygienists 724:23 725:18 726:1 I Ian 857:13 idea 638:2,15 648:9,12 734:6 741:15 745:12 784:18 866:18 id entification 743:16,24 745:4 756:25 816:10 831:21 identified 756:12 791:22 798:19 803:4,19 805:4 819:17 824:11,12 828:5 845:15 identifies 747:10 identify 644:2 709:6 722:3 740:2,17 752:23 758:16 792:9 793:1,12 808:9 815:23 identifying 733:12 740:21 816:12 ignore 772:22 780:22 illustrate 854:21 illustrative 696:20 im age 739:12,21 742:18 822:19, 25 827:4 834:12 841:8 854:8 im ages 739:24 802:14,16 830:10 im agine 671:1 675:10 im m ed iately 761:5 im pact 680:24 771:23 772:5 866:18 im partial 760:17 761:1 868:7 im peaches 770:15,16,17 777:25 im peaching 769:10,11 im p each m en t 769:9 770:11 771:12,21,25 im plicates 775:17 im portant 642:24 709:12,14 735:24 746:7 758:8,12 803:6,8 824:9 825:9,25 851:25 852:3 im precise 694:4 im pressed 639:20 im p ro p er 851:7 im proved 703:24 704:1 in-house 744:3,6 inaccurate 648:10,12 inadm issible 768:20 771:18,20 inches 675:14 incidence 699:13 701:9 incident 705:16 inclined 872:18 include 686:19 included 665:24 693:19 837:15 includes 630:3 693:5 760:21 868:2 including 750:1 764:5 784:9 787:9 809:15 845:5,11 851:13 862:18 874:8 incom e 635:4 in con sisten t 698:20 incorrect 694:25 increased 701:14 in d ep en d en t 633:16 686:6 689:18,20,24 724:14 762:23 787:19 index 826:9 Indiana 671:20 761:2 767:14,15 868:9 indicating 624:15 774:9,16 779:13 780:1 783:20 786:14 indicative 807:13 824:21 individual 656:6 676:14 684:6 689:24 692:18 695:12 758:3,4 834:5 individuals 663:24 672:9 673:8 industrial 624:4,5,6 664:3 723:20 724:5,21,23 725:11,18, 24,25 736:24 industry 682:20 683:14 686:7 697:10 700:1 703:23 787:15 861:5,6 inform 856:18 inform ation 631:24 640:24 661:19,21 680:24 682:9 685:7 699:23 706:9 726:8 772:8 775:20 779:1 780:20 827:25 850:16 inform ed 671:23 672:5 859:16 inform ing 683:14 780:21 inform s 682:19 inhalation 697:9 701:4 initial 767:18 initially 694:8 701:13 705:14 injury 683:3 769:1 inside 739:13 Index: identifies..invite inspect 841:17 instance 723:3 730:5 767:17 768:10 789:12 792:12 841:8 Institute 662:4 727:15 828:21 institution 649:1 662:22 instruction 769:5 instructions 778:21 instrum ent's 733:25 instrum ents 732:15 insulating 677:20 697:23 insulation 629:25 669:20,24 670:11 671:4 675:24 677:6,8,21 678:2,6,11 691:14,15,25 692:3, 8,15 694:24 697:3,4,8,17 698:3, 17 729:2,4 748:18 840:5 insulators 677:15 678:18 682:21 695:2,7 703:14 intact 784:4 787:3 intend 771:4,6,7,9 869:2 870:11 in ter-ro w 830:15 interest 686:11 689:1 765:25 interesting 716:10 806:25 interim 786:3 internal 670:25 672:19 692:13 700:3,8,13,17 708:10 709:16 742:22 international 635:8 723:12 747:14,20,23 748:8 749:15 751:13 792:4 internet 760:22 868:3 interview s 703:13 introduce 713:18 775:12 781:10 introduced 672:22 intro d uctio n 665:7 677:2 in vestigating 776:20 in vestigation 780:23 783:25 786:25 investigators 716:1 investors 764:17 invite 700:12 inviting 768:1,19 777:4 involve 729:18 involved 626:16 633:2 680:16 682:2 717:21 718:1 728:7,17 729:13 742:10 760:24 868:6 in volvem en t 643:21 683:9 689:23 involving 625:23 626:3 635:5 729:14 iodide 755:13 iron 804:3,19,20,21 806:10,12 820:10 824:20 830:1 irreg u lar 843:2 irrelevan t 776:7 Irving 680:13 681:6 682:15 699:21 ISO 723:7,11 747:25 748:1,8 749:15 751:14 790:16,18 811:10 817:9 833:19,24 ISOS 833:19 issue 649:10 678:15 705:15 722:16 746:12 763:21 767:3,5, 19,21,25 768:23 777:2 869:16 870:4 874:3 issued 648:24 651:7 764:9 767:17 786:4 issues 626:16 645:6 646:1 651:21 662:18 765:8 766:2 767:6,24 768:21 775:22 Italian 626:2 627:3,22,25 645:1 837:17 838:3,11,12 847:15 849:12,14 Italy 625:1,2,5 626:6 628:4 836:15 838:13,22 839:1 845:12 item 869:4 J J.E. 705:10 J4-1 858:19 860:14 ja c k e t 699:18 Jan u ary 718:25 743:10 814:17 je o p a rd ize d 684:5 Index: inviting..Justice Jersey 728:14 774:15 779:12, 23 783:17 786:11 857:17 Jesus 643:23 Jim 646:19 650:9 651:2,6 654:15 657:15 659:7 665:19 668:18 680:11 681:23 685:23 817:14 JJC I 784:1,6 786:25 787:6 jo b 633:4 678:3 682:22 688:5, 14,24,25 689:4,7,9,14,15 715:18 718:13 848:10 jo b s 718:15 725:2 Joe 766:22 John 663:23 664:4 Joh n s 640:13 675:21 682:4 685:16 687:8 Joh n son 623:8,9 624:24 625:24 629:15,17,20 630:12 640:17,20 641:7,17,19,25 642:9 647:7,25 649:3,21,22,23 652:2 656:5 659:12,23 660:6,14 661:8, 13,24 663:4 664:21 666:19 667:2,3 690:7,8 700:16 705:9, 11.18 706:10,11 707:8 708:10, 11.19 709:1,15 710:23 711:1 742:23 743:4,10,11 744:16,17 751:15 752:9 761:15 762:8,20, 21.22 763:1,2,3,7,18,20 764:3, 10.13.14.22 765:3,5,9,22 769:15,16 770:1,14,15,16,23 771:14 773:9,24 774:14 777:14, 22 778:3,12,20 779:11,22,23 782:12,15 783:16 786:5,8,10 806:17 811:12,24 812:4,14,19, 25 813:11,14,25 815:2,9,10,22 816:16,17,20 817:10,22 835:20 837:16 838:20 839:6,8 842:25 843:25 844:4 845:17 846:8 847:12,13 850:12 851:12,19 852:8 854:20 855:3,4,24 856:24 857:12,13,14 860:2,22 862:14, 17.22 863:3,7,16 866:14 871:2 872:24 873:10,16 Joh n son 's 649:21 654:24 656:5 659:23 660:6,14 661:8,13 663:5 708:16,19 709:15 731:8, 23 761:17 762:20,21,23 763:1,9, 13 764:22 767:21 770:14,15,16 773:18 774:8 777:12,22 778:13 779:11,25 782:12 783:18 784:20 786:12 788:20 791:22 793:1 795:23 796:2,20 803:4 808:10 811:12 812:19,25 815:2,22 817:21 818:17 820:3 825:4,15 827:23 828:8 834:9 835:18 836:4,7 840:21 843:14,25 846:5 849:12 850:23 851:1,12 852:8 854:20 863:3,7,16 864:12 jo in t 630:1 Jon 699:9 721:20 725:21 727:8 744:10 752:3,21 762:17 791:16 792:2 793:8,19 811:23 813:13 814:15,22 815:21 819:3 820:2 838:18 839:5,11 840:13 857:6 jo u rn al 667:8,10,11,12,13,19,24 668:1 720:22,24 726:21 jo u rn als 667:22 ju d g e 685:11 733:16 ju d g es 640:10,11 ju d g m e n t 767:3 J ud icial 761:2 868:10 July 641:12,22 718:17 June 668:11,23 708:14 ju rie s 639:19 684:16 ju ro rs 622:7,14 631:7 712:5 760:19 769:22 867:2,25 ju ry 622:2 623:20 625:3 626:15, 22 631:6 639:16 645:24 650:2 651:16 655:13,17,20 656:10 664:2 667:6 669:19 671:13 673:20 674:18 677:17 682:18 683:25 685:10,25 686:22 690:20 695:11 696:14,15 711:18 712:4, 15,21 713:19 714:25 719:10 724:20 727:12 728:24 729:10 730:2 731:21 732:15,18 735:14 737:24 744:21 747:22 757:3 761:10 764:25 766:16 770:7 771:7,9 772:5,8,13,15,16 773:24 774:13 776:13 778:20 779:1,8 780:7 782:7 785:9,17 788:23 795:21 800:2,24 809:7,21 831:10 834:21 835:7 845:25 847:3 856:12 862:12 868:16 ju ry 's 632:18 789:6 833:3 834:24 850:16 863:15,16 Justice 634:21 K K aren 663:22 K aylo 669:18,19 670:1,13,15 671:10 672:12 673:12,16,17,22 674:13,19,23 675:1,15,20,23 676:15 691:25 692:3,5 K enneth 663:22 K ent 720:3 721:6,14 726:20 791:1 837:5 K err 872:16,23 873:9,14,15 874:2 key 658:16,17 kind 631:14 636:20 639:5 640:7 644:10 652:11,18 659:6 673:1,2 679:6 682:5 683:12 691:11 719:25 722:19 726:9 729:2 735:19 740:14,22 742:8,25 754:10,23 757:15,23 766:18 788:15 790:22 793:14 801:13 813:8 825:24 826:2,7,11,14 827:9,11,12,16,20 830:20 832:11 839:17 840:23,24,25 841:2,18,19 842:6,18 851:20 852:14 853:18 862:19 kinds 676:13 714:22 715:10,14 716:9,14 717:20 723:17 725:5, 19 728:20 740:12,16 748:12 750:4 837:3,4,6 840:6 K leinfeld 701:8 710:15 knew 672:20 682:22 684:19 693:13 752:25 know able 649:3,16 655:9 672:17 know ing 765:2 775:19 know ledge 626:23 627:2 631:21 653:9 673:6,11,15 684:4 693:10 699:24 770:12 796:17 861:8 know n.' 704:6 K okom o 671:20 K orea 845:12 K orean 845:9 L lab 643:9,17 657:7 718:9 719:2 722:2 723:4 728:3 729:14 736:24 739:2 754:21 799:17 820:4 829:10 837:2 839:18 840:9 lab's 718:10 Labcorp 723:4 label 692:8,15 756:20 836:12 labeled 804:1,2,6 837:22 labeling 800:19 laboratories 642:4 643:4,6 722:23,24 723:6,18 724:10,12 727:20,21 728:1 741:13 744:2 787:19 793:5 805:1 828:24 829:5 851:14 lab orato ry 713:25 716:23 717:9,11 718:15 723:22 724:1, 11 725:1 727:18 728:5,7,12 740:2 754:9,10 762:24 788:18 794:6 796:4,6,8 800:8 801:25 810:7 828:25 830:21 831:16 835:18 836:12,16 840:1 843:18 846:6 848:21,22 852:12 laboratory's 724:16 ladies 713:5 786:1 lady 671:19 laid 775:16 857:25 Lancet 667:5,7,15,17,19,20 668:3,6,8,11,23 669:14 700:25 710:13,16,19 landm ark 678:21 L an g er 655:25 657:7 659:22 702:2,17,19 708:14 language 631:12 632:16 lap 835:16 large 630:3 716:7 733:17 larg er 757:12 823:4 largest 678:9 lastly 761:2 868:9 869:8 late 638:4 820:4 latest 744:3 Index: Karen..level latitude 640:12 law 625:22 629:8 637:9 672:11 767:14 law suits 626:11,13 689:22 772:8 law yer 629:7,10 681:2 689:24 764:2 766:6 law yers 628:22 633:15 635:1 637:3,4 638:3 639:7,11,13,17,21 682:20 683:14,20 685:2 764:21, 23 779:21 796:22 839:22 lay 736:8 746:24 808:7 835:19 851:22 855:7,15 layered 736:10 lays 815:20 lead 669:25 831:18 leading 646:14 learn 715:13 learned 677:17 leave 656:24 687:17 688:1,3 718:19 760:2 led 669:6 left 726:5 754:7 801:16,19 830:3 842:23 left-hand 737:13 legal 628:16,24 629:7 638:10,13 670:6 671:16 685:3 767:6 legally 775:16 length 738:11 789:1,10,20 795:5 797:21 798:3,22 802:9 810:4,5 817:8 822:12 length-to-w idth 758:6 lens 827:13 letter 640:23 642:3,7 653:22,23 654:3 680:23 685:6 702:24,25 703:4 711:10 765:11 773:9 775:2,8 857:16 letterhead 681:6 779:11 855:4, 24 857:13 letters 666:19,25 675:2 681:5,6 level 704:6,13 716:3 733:4,22, 25 734:1,3 735:3 749:4 757:9, 16,24 777:17 850:6 862:5 864:1, 10 865:16 levels 697:18 701:16 734:10 746:13 748:23 763:8 774:10,17 779:14 780:2 783:21 786:15 844:8 852:1 859:11 Lew is 671:19 721:10 763:11 767:20 Lew is' 731:22 777:13 libraries 633:18 655:10 lies 800:23 life 632:14 665:18 764:19 769:19 light 733:10 738:20 739:16 740:1,9,10,14 741:16,17,20 790:9,11 805:15 821:24 826:5,6, 13,25 827:10,13 lig h ter 755:4 lim ine 767:5 lim it 850:7 859:5 863:21 864:4, 6,7,13 lim itations 763:19 lim ited 673:9 767:22 780:19 854:11 864:8 lim its 850:3 852:6,25 853:1 Lincoln's 737:16 lines 830:14 869:23 870:5 linking 694:23 liquid 745:25 746:8,17 747:13 750:7,13 751:12 752:22 753:19 755:8,15 778:6 790:20 797:12, 13 812:15 813:9 836:20 851:24 853:2 859:21 860:3 liquids 740:8 750:23 list 634:10 637:3,5,8,10 659:5,8 725:22 726:11 763:25 765:10,18 766:3,14 773:7 775:2 871:16 listed 637:13 650:16 728:6 listen 662:25 688:20 listening 760:22 868:3 listens 654:22 lists 661:7 literature 627:21 633:18 655:24 664:20 719:13,24 746:16 751:12 756:6 773:11 817:11 831:12,13 849:9 litigation 631:20 633:2 645:9 686:21 689:24 764:19 839:23 live 691:4 835:5 LLC 713:24 loaded 720:14 loads 846:4 located 714:1 location 800:20 801:24 802:2 locations 800:11,21 836:17 logged 796:6 logo 774:14 long 637:20 679:13 719:1 734:16 737:5 741:10 756:14 757:25 781:20 785:12 789:12 806:16 871:24 lo n g er 758:10,11 789:15 853:10 863:18 Longo 727:2 843:23 848:2,25 849:4 Longo's 788:18 looked 624:9 627:14 628:2 629:12 639:4 646:3 659:23 661:25 665:8 720:8 802:3,16,22 806:16 827:16 834:12 loop 875:22 losing 835:11 loss 669:7 lot 624:9 652:8 664:17 667:21 675:2 678:17,23 679:3,9 681:15 686:3 693:13 698:21 705:15 723:9 730:6 732:17 742:7 746:12 749:11 761:17 767:22 774:7 775:20 777:11 779:25 786:12 795:13 808:13 847:9 850:24 854:14 862:2 lots 628:22 695:18 772:15 822:12 850:25 Louis 728:15 low 733:6 734:10 806:13 846:23 852:1 lo w er 675:8 Index: levels..making Lucy 643:5,10 lum inary 646:5 lunch 759:24 760:3 761:8,12 771:10 788:12 lung 669:7 678:10,15 699:13 795:16,17 lungs 704:4 795:15 lying 823:9 M M.D. 699:21 M 69042-002 796:4 m achine 754:24 854:7 m ade 629:24 632:25 635:20 636:3,17 640:4 648:13,16,22 649:4 654:10 656:9 660:2 666:8 669:21 670:10,11 684:3 689:21 721:6 742:2,5 764:24 768:25 772:21 776:6,12 800:15 801:3 839:24 840:2 867:2 m agazine 679:5 m agnesium 735:18 804:1,15, 16 806:7 824:19 829:23 m ag nificatio n 800:17 822:6,9 m ag nifyin g 734:21 735:1,7 m agnitude 732:7,9,11,12 m ag nitu d es 732:4 m ain 717:13 m aintain 744:5,14 m aintaining 776:1 m ajo r 669:9 725:2 844:12 845:19 859:8 866:21 m ajo rity 731:12 m ake 628:10 645:21 648:9 666:13 681:23 700:10 738:23 742:11 747:21 760:5 806:23 808:14 820:23 822:17 828:11 829:7 846:9 870:18 874:22 875:18 m akes 651:25 698:23 776:2 842:5 872:5 m aking 638:10,13 693:17,24 694:1 774:24 m ales 701:18 m alig n an cies 701:17 M A LIK 871:6,24 875:1,16 m anaged 717:8 m an ag em en t 625:20 647:11 648:25 706:9,11,20 m an ag er 717:1,5 718:15 m an datory 753:5 m an ip ulatin g 671:9 m an ufactu red 692:5 m a n u fa ctu rer 672:18 692:1 716:12 842:5 m a n u fa c tu re rs 854:4 m an ufactu rers ffQ-10 m an ufactu rin g 694:19 M anville 675:21 682:5 m ap 832:14,19 833:1 M arch 645:18 648:22 660:9 661:2,3 704:20 706:24,25 707:1, 5 752:5 m argin 859:7 m ark 690:10 696:11 713:6,11,20 812:1 m arked 691:10696:21 714:4 m arke r 624:14 m arket 689 12 71124 m arketing 716:15 m arkings 841:1 m arks 802:24 M artin 663:23 M aryann 663:22 664:9 M AS 714:1 716:23 717:13,22 718:9,17,23 719:2 720:9 721:17 722:7,13,19 724:1,2,11,23 725:18 726:5 727:2 728:7,12,16 729:16 739:2 742:9 793:3 796:12,15 816:25 817:5 818:8 820:4 830:22 836:3 839:15,21 840:19 846:6 848:24 850:4 864:20 MAS'S 754:10 853:1 m ass 750:10 866:10 m asses 834:5 m aster's 633:5 m astic 729:6 m atch 811:2 m atched 840:24 842:16,17 m atches 789:24 m aterial 623:11,14 631:23 664:25 669:24 671:5 679:2,6 719 25 728 25 729 1 730 3 12 15,17 735:16 737:8 738:3,23,24 740:7,22 748:15 749:8 750:9,16 753:19 788:15 814:18 827:1 836:14 838:2 847:9 859:23 m aterials 670:12 676:8 683:16 ... .... AJ1:8 713:2b 715:3,14,15 716:22 717:4,14,19 718:6,11 721:23 722:4,22 723:24 724:9 727:13 728:22 734:11 736:16 739:3,9 740:12 742:25 747:15 748:13 749:23 753:15 759:7 771:3 792:15 837:2 860:16 865:6 m ath 797:24 m ath em atical 818:3 m atrices 810:11 m atrix 745:3 m atted 834:4 m atter 624:16 695:21 714:23 760:11 867:16 873:11 m atters 662:9 710:8 712:16 868:18,19 M ccrone 643:4,5,6,8,10,15,20 851:15 863:8 M ccrone's 851:19 M D L 796:15 m eans 675:5 724:13 731:18 733:24 746:9 798:12 801:22 818:19 852:7,11 854:2 m easurable 669:7 m easure 725:12 738:10 767:9 805:20 809:2,3 843:5 m easured 800:6 830:15 Index: males..mesothelioma m easu rem en t 824:7 m easu rem en ts 807:23 m easures 693:8 768:24,25 769:2 771:13 799:8 829:19,20 m easuring 825:21 m echanic's 766:8 m edia 650:18 660:3,8 706:19,22 772 12 773 2 m edical 6247 13 628 16 24 629:4 650:17,20 651:7 667:8,9, 10,13 670:6 672:8,15 673:7,8 685:3 703:16 705:7,18 M edicine 629:8 653:24 655:19 726:17 m eet 705:12 787:14 800:4 . . 825:13 m eeting 645:16,22 648:16,23 687:25 705:6 706:22,24,25 m eetings 711:22 m eets 756:8 765:23 799:6 803:11 M elody 721:10 731:22 763:11 767:20 777:13 M elody's 869:24 m e m b er 725:23 726:5 747:25 m em bers 697:22 m em b ersh ip s 725:23 726:9 m em o 646:17 647:4,9,25 681:15 692:13 706:25 m em orandum 680:13 682:15 752:19 m en 678:13 683:18,20 701:16 m ention 625:3 645:12 651:16 686:6 m entioned 625:2 644:12 667:5 668:2,4 670:7 677:25 679:16 694:6 695:10 710:18 818:25 828:13 862:9 M eriw eth er 694:5,6 m esh 842:7 m eso th eliom a 624:11,13,19 644:17,19 674:1,2 678:7,10,16, 18,23 701:14,19 773:15,16 777:13 m ess 784:13 m et 637:22 686:23 687:22 828:1 m eter 725:12 m ethod 743:23 745:21 746:17 747:13,15,16 749:19 751:1,6 753:1,8 759:19 788:14,19 790:18 792:5,8,11,24,25 793:2 795:22 797:13 808:8 812:4,5,15 813:9,14 815:22 816:5 836:19, 20,21 853:22 859:3,16,22,24 860:14,18 861:5 862:17 863:7,9, 12 865:17 866:2 m eth o d o lo g ies 723:16 731:16 m eth o d o lo g y 658:8 721:3 745:17,24 746:24 748:22 749:16 751:4,16 758:20 762:14 763:19 790:20,24 791:24,25 793:21 800:3 856:2,4 857:10 m ethods 723:15 753:7 767:11 770:16,17 777:16 778:13 859:5 m ethyl 755:13 MG 804:1 m icrobe 735:8 m icrobes 734:18 735:12 m icro b io lo g icals 717:7 m icro b io lo g y 714:21 726:16 734:12 m icro g rap h s 829:16 m ic ro m e te r 789:13 m icro m eters 745:11,14 789:12 m icron 799:9 810:5 843:11,12 m icronite 720:3 m icrons 745:14 789:19 798:2,3, 5,22,23 820:17,18 821:2 825:21 842:12 m icro sco p e 624:1 665:24 718:7 733:10,11,14,18 734:9 738:2,5,14 739:7,8,11,13,14,18, 22 740:1,4,24 741:6,9,10,16 742:5,9 744:7 750:15 757:16 790:1,4,10 799:13 812:5 816:6 821:18,23 822:1,2,8 826:6,7,25 827:9,10 829:8 842:24 863:8 m icro sco p es 702:21 715:1,11, 12,13 718:4,8,11 734:17 739:2 741:22 742:2,11 811:13 863:1 m icro sco p ic 644:11 734:20 757:9,24 m icro sco p ist 799:11 817:14 822:19 830:11 m icro sco p ists 643:12 655:18 702:19 718:9,14 721:22 795:11 m icro sco p y 623:21 643:16 665:25 715:6,7,23 716:13 726:14 727:22 743:13,22 750:8 759:14 816:2 837:20 861:18 862:25 m id 694:22 698:6 812:9 820:4 m id n ig h t 869:22 m illers 628:4 694:16 701:10 M illette 817:15,17 m illim e te r 800:25 801:1,6,12 m illim eters 801:7,8 m illion 636:14,25 638:17 675:16,19 694:13 844:21 847:10 859:12 862:6 m illions 675:5,25 677:6 694:11 720:19,20 852:19 853:5 865:25 m ind 628:8 650:3 698:1,13 760:7,12 867:12,18 m indful 640:1 m ine 625:6,8,9,11,16,19 626:2, 5,6,10 627:3,6,8,10,16,25 628:11 701:16 756:18 763:3,10 845:9 850:11 m ineral 733:3 736:2,14 832:23 m in eralo gical 736:20 740:7 816:10 831:20 m in eralo gists 642:8,13 m in eralo gy 623:3 757:1 m inerals 664:11 735:22 744:4 752:5,7 756:1 816:1,8 831:19 832:17,21 862:24 863:24 864:2 m iners 627:22 628:3 694:16,18 701:10 m ines 623:8 630:9 642:13,16,19 643:2 664:23,25 711:2,14 752:8 763:2 764:5 831:18 837:17,18 Index: mess..motion 838:3 M ines' 756:25 m inim al 646:24 706:8 m inute 656:24 676:18 681:14, 23 699:10 708:19 785:4 m inutes 719:5 785:10 835:7 860:19 871:5 m isleading 862:19 866:12 m is n o m er 832:12 m isquoted 704:11 m issing 839:10 m istrial 766:18 769:21 770:3 772:4,23 778:22 m ix 753:20,21 m ixed 689:15 753:19 754:11 m ixtures 755:13 832:10 m o m en t 835:9 m o m en tarily 786:2 M onday 707:1 768:6,7 769:19, 20 777:3 778:23 867:10 868:15 869:15,18 870:16 872:7,8,10,12 m oney 635:9 638:8,10,13 689:21,23 m o n ito r 714:14 m o n o h yd rate 755:14 M ontana 838:4,12 m onth 634:3 660:9 689:11 773:6 784:10 787:10 m onths 639:3 689:6 m orning 622:3,12,14,21,22 691:9 713:5 762:9,12 763:7 764:14 765:20 766:5,10 767:2 768:12 769:21 775:2 778:6,23 788:6,25 790:19 792:24 867:10 868:15,21 m orph o lo g ical 816:9 m o rp h o lo g y 741:8 791:4,5,7 793:23 798:13 799:6 803:14 808:21 811:8 824:11 830:4 831:3,9 833:6,9 m o rtality 701:14 m otion 767:5 769:21 778:22 M otley 637:18,20,22,24,25 679:13,16 681:18 682:19,24,25 683:11 684:25 M otley's 681:20 685:13 M otors 722:15 M ount 645:24 646:11,21 647:11,23 648:2,6,15,21,25 649:10,20,23 650:1,17,20 651:4, 19,21,24 652:3 653:23 655:18, 23 657:7 658:2 661:12,20 662:2 702:11,12 703:9,10 704:17,23 705:6,8,12,18,23 706:1,8,11,19 m outhful 675:2 791:19 m ove 653:13 660:17 663:14 668:14 680:2 805:9 861:18 866:25 m oved 689:9 m p p cf 674:25 675:1,5 m ultiple 698:8 732:12 809:2,3 m useum 625:6 627:10 825:1 N naked 737:3,21 nam ed 644:12 676:20 746:20 752:11 817:14 826:24 837:23 nam es 656:6 663:22 narrate 857:23 national 662:4 727:15,18 747:24 828:21,24 nature 630:2 674:11 833:17 n ecessarily 722:13 749:1 needed 795:12 needles 834:4 negative 711:6 neg atively 672:25 n egligence 767:10 769:3 new er 741:23 new s 653:20 706:19,22 769:23 784:17 nice 671:19 788:11 night 622:5 818:6 869:21 nine-ounce 796:3 818:5,17 819:16,20 N IOSH 662:8,14,19,24 663:4 665:23 N IS T 727:10,12,15 828:19,21 nod 631:7 noise 725:10,15 n o nasbestos 852:5 n ondetect 731:18 849:22,25 nondetects 731:19 851:18 852:5 853:14 n onetheless 765:4 nongovernm ental 686:10 noon 869:14,15 870:20,21,23 norm al 669:5 681:7 North 664:12 838:3,12 northern 626:5 note 641:4 706:18 764:17 866:22 noted 701:3 n o th er 874:3 notice 761:16 764:23 767:1 notify 764:13 765:5 872:15 N o vem b er 680:14 NSD 801:21 n u m b er 649:22 678:9,12 684:7 695:8 707:17 714:7 715:10 717:9 722:12 724:11 748:12 789:10 796:4,5,7 801:19,20,21 802:1 818:13,19 819:19,25 841:11 842:7,16 844:24 851:20 866:12 n um bering 800:18 num bers 659:9 675:7 844:20 853:3 865:22 N VLA P 723:24 727:17 828:24 O oath 622:7 681:12 873:14 Object 658:17 780:15 784:25 785:6 808:11 851:6 868:25 Index: Motley..office objected 632:7 objecting 730:24 783:4 858:5 objection 631:2 653:15,17 656:19 658:19,25 660:18,20 663:15,17 668:15,17 680:3,4,6 690:15 698:8,10 707:19,20,24, 25 709:20,21 730:19 743:8 751:22,24 780:25 781:19,24 784:23 785:3,7 786:8 787:22 808:16 811:19,21 812:17 814:6, 12,14 815:19 836:1 847:25 855:11 857:2,3,5 858:1,3 861:1, 3 863:4 870:6 872:4 875:18 objections 782:1,3 870:5,7 871:1 872:2 objective 837:9 objects 785:2 observation 639:25 640:4 Obtain 683:15 831:7 obtained 742:23 796:21 obtaining 705:17 obvious 645:21 851:21 occasion 666:18 occasionally 634:11 occasions 784:9 787:9 occupational 646:7 662:4 726:16 occur 769:1 832:21 occurring 834:1 O C F 692:5,7 O c to b e r 779:12,24 783:17 786:11 Odds 652:12 offer 630:25 707:11 743:5 761:15 766:15 770:10 780:10 782:7 784:21 786:3,5 811:17 814:1 815:13 856:21 860:24 Offered 776:8 784:22 870:5 offering 769:5 offers 631:20 Office 693:20 761:24 776:16,24 869:25 officer 717:11 847:21 Official 686:8 728:3 781:9 Oil 630:4 oldest 667:12 one's 804:1 815:9 one-way 719:5 online 767:21,23 774:12,20 776:19 779:17 780:5 783:24 786:18 796:22 O ntario 756:24 oops 802:20 811:22 open 760:7,12 764:3,25 867:12, 18 opened 841:24 opening 690:12 762:17,18 766:6 775:4 776:6 777:15 833:4 841:12 850:24 851:5,7 operate 744:14 opinion 639:22 651:4 652:3 732:1 809:6 851:17 859:22 opinions 640:1,3 856:7,18 873:7,9 opponent 762:10 765:8 766:1 767:8 768:22 779:4,6 opportunity 763:23 768:18 781:1 811:11 opposing 872:16 optical 727:22 753:7 861:18 optimal 750:14,18 optimize 752:23 optimum 750:9 option 870:1 order 723:1 731:2 732:9,11 745:18 746:25 765:16 874:23 orders 732:7,12 ore 744:5 755:17,25 787:14 836:14 ores 752:16 organization 723:12 747:14,24 748:1 751:14 792:4 o rg an izatio n s 686:10 711:21 726:6 o rient 633:11 669:3 674:18 680:12 683:8 800:24 oriented 671:13 original 644:16 720:3 O S H A 692:21,22 809:25 O S H A 's 794:16 ounce 818:21,22 ounces 818:20 outfit 853:23 outline 833:25 outlines 747:17 outset 762:13 809:6 overrule 709:21 858:11 overruled 858:1 oversee 718:14 727:16,24 728:5 828:23 overseen 725:17 O w ens 669:21 670:7,8 672:18 675:23 ow ned 752:8 o w n er 718:10 727:2 P P-196 813:23 P-358 751:20 P-52 707:17 p.m. 776:24 875:25 packed 820:15 packs 837:7,10 pages 753:11 799:21 paid 626:7,8 635:10 636:6,19 638:7,16 panel 795:10 829:16 p ap er 702:7 712:8 720:2 726:19 746:19,24 747:3,6,7,9 760:22 790:25 792:3 793:9 817:8 819:2 833:6,11 849:8 868:3 papers 647:12 Index: officer..patten p ap erw o rk 726:13 paragraph 642:9 646:21 647:10 654:16 668:19 684:2 697:13 856:14 858:15 p aragraphs 681:20 685:13 parallel 758:1 789:2 813:18 816:22 834:1 863:18 p aram eter 799:2 843:5,6 p aram eters 790:23 799:6 854:6 Pardon 781:25 parents 705:21 part 650:21,23 656:9 673:4,5 682:5 695:5 701:3 718:13 745:4 747:14 757:11 766:16 771:2 777:4 779:18 781:7,17 782:21, 24 783:1 784:13 786:22 797:1 803:8 823:1,8 824:3 827:21 831:15 848:10 852:22 854:15,16 856:7,16,18 858:17 874:2 p artially 869:4 particle 813:18 816:22 841:25 842:11,13,15,18 848:15,16 863:17 particles 675:5,17,20 676:1 694:11,13 701:5 715:15 725:7 733:20 744:23 833:15 842:8,24 parties 705:16 760:20,24 762:16 767:4 773:19 780:18 781:1 868:1,5,19 869:2 P artn ersh ip 695:25 parts 647:9 859:12 party 762:9 765:7 766:1 767:7 768:21 779:4,6 868:24 870:6 872:17 874:7 pass 760:16 850:17 867:24 past 669:6 730:7 743:11 784:11 787:11 p ath o lo g ist 735:16 p athology 673:7 715:24 patience 712:23 patient 703:17 patients 685:2 patten 790:12 pattern 738:24 759:17 790:13 805:14,18 807:8 808:2 811:5 824:23,24 830:13,14,18,20 patterns 805:23 807:20 831:7 832:22 pay 662:19 paying 626:4 pays 635:8 peak 806:12 824:20 829:24,25 peaks 803:23,25 804:3 806:11 p ecu liar 695:15 pediatrics 652:4 p eer 719:10 p eer-review 720:23 751:11 p eer-review ed 655:24 719:12, 15,20,23 746:16 791:25 792:3 817:11 849:8 pencil 789:16 penny 737:12 749:6 people 625:17 640:6 644:12 646:10,11 647:22 653:2 655:10 664:6 666:25 677:18 678:1 684:23 685:14 686:14,20 687:23 689:8 693:17,23 694:16,22 695:6 699:13 702:21 704:2,12 706:3 709:12 711:20,21 722:3 724:25 736:25 753:3 776:4,19 778:17 837:7 839:22 840:19 people's 692:24 percent 634:7,23 635:4 638:21 670:19,21,23 671:4 679:7 690:2 720:10 733:5 749:9 755:21,22, 23 774:19 779:16 780:3 783:22 786:16 844:10 845:10 846:18,20 848:22 849:14,18,20 850:1,2 854:12,13 858:24,25 859:6 861:21 862:5 percentage 729:4 844:6 846:16 848:3,20 849:12 866:3,15,20 percentages 755:20 p erfect 815:9 period 636:15,16,19 679:23 682:12 683:6 839:1 periodic 804:8 p erio dically 831:4 periods 731:9 perm it 760:9 816:7 867:14 perm itted 786:20 868:21 p ersist 737:5 person 664:11 685:16 711:15 personal 683:3 705:8 personally 623:25 652:16 717:20 718:2,5 725:23 729:13 848:4,24 870:14 p erspective 685:5 735:17 745:12 794:6 persuasive 773:3 P eter 622:23 petrographic 665:24 Petterson 705:10 Ph.d. 622:15 639:2,6,7,14,16,23 640:7 642:3 713:11 714:20 p h arm aceu tical 746:21 853:17 P h arm aco p eia 853:23 phone 711:10 760:25 photograph 799:24 photo g raph ed 841:15 photographs 761:4 840:23 868:11 photo m icro g rap h 799:23 848:7 ph o to m icro g rap h s 799:15,21 phrase 623:11 physicists 741:13 physics 741:14 pick 711:10 picked 794:18 picture 673:3 700:6 732:14 739:1 754:17,20 756:11,13 799:12 805:7 822:5,20 823:13, 16 825:22 829:2 pictures 737:24 821:17 832:2 piece 690:11 702:7 712:8 744:14 757:13 773:10 819:1 823:5 824:20 Index: pattern..pointed pieces 806:8 pile 700:21,22 708:12 737:18 piles 700:21 pipe 677:18,20 678:22 691:11 730:5,6 pivoting 776:16 place 625:7 669:15 676:16 706:14 729:21 772:9 784:7 787:7 places 627:13 838:20 p lain tiff 631:23 671:18 672:11 766:10 772:1 776:18 plaintiffs 622:17 626:2,4,11 634:9,10,13 635:5,11 673:14 680:18 683:3,8 684:9 689:21 713:12 772:3 776:25 785:23 786:3 839:23 872:3 plaintiffs' 625:22 633:14 634:25 637:3 639:7 641:3 645:18 658:15 674:5 683:19 707:9 714:4,10 743:3,7 751:23 752:4 756:19 761:14 762:7 766:14 768:15 780:9 782:7 786:3 811:17 812:1 814:1,13 815:18 855:19 857:7 860:1,6,11, 24 861:2 plant 694:19 715:24 plants 677:8 694:9 plastic 841:9,11 plate 739:13 756:19 842:8 platelets 708:21 plates 806:18,19 platy 827:6 843:1 play 853:14 870:11 871:17 872:3,9 plays 758:21 pleased 628:20 PLM 733:9 737:25 826:6 827:22 837:19 point 638:3 655:4 660:2 672:23 680:16 718:22 724:2 774:18,23 798:1 809:11 856:22 871:19 pointed 647:11 710:20 pointing 756:14 polarized 739:25 p o larizer 740:13 polarizing 733:10 826:6,12,25 827:10 Pooley 644:6,8,9 645:1 711:2, 11 859:2,8 pop 769:24 868:4 population 678:13 695:13 697:24 Port 728:14 portion 774:6 780:6,9 802:13 875:8 portions 870:3 position 655:20 661:18 676:4 685:5 693:7 730:21 769:12 773:20 777:14,22 780:12 859:3 874:13 positions 871:15 positive 765:3,6 784:2 787:2 845:10 846:21 848:3 849:13,15, 18 862:11 p o ssib ility 766:17 769:22 772:4 773:2 possibly 764:15 770:3 839:1 842:10 865:24 Post 653:25 p o st-doctoral 714:22,24 potential 859:21 870:25 potentially 771:22 871:13 p o w d er 650:19 651:5,8 654:11, 24 660:6,14 661:13 668:25 700:25 708:15,16 729:6 731:9, 23 732:2,6 740:7 742:16 761:17 763:9,12,13 765:14 767:21 769:17 770:19 773:18 774:8 777:12 779:25 783:19 784:20 786:13 788:20 791:23 792:9 793:2 795:23 796:2,20 803:5 806:17 808:10 814:19 817:21 818:18 820:4 825:4,15 827:24 828:8 834:10 835:19 836:4,7 840:21 843:14 844:1 846:6 849:13 850:23 851:1,2,13 862:24 864:13 pow dered 732:24 815:25 pow ders 641:8 661:8 701:24 734:11 p o w er 677:8 Pow erP oint 721:20 727:7 752:21 792:1 793:18 813:12 814:23 815:21 820:2 839:4 840:12 ppm 755:17,19,20,21 p ractically 672:21 806:18 practice 721:18 722:1 practicing 859:2 pre-1964 684:8 precautions 736:25 precise 808:12 precluded 767:13 prediction 632:15 predictions 774:24 p refer 783:1 prejudice 875:11 prejudiced 873:12 prejudicial 771:23 873:17 p relim inary 765:13 prep 836:19,20 preparation 745:17,21,24 750:8 751:17 756:17 797:15 860:4 p reparation's 734:1 prepared 784:4 787:4 797:9,11 826:8 838:8 preparing 631:24 746:25 prepped 837:19 p resence 647:13 677:6 718:12 727:14 745:18 760:10 774:9,17 779:14 780:2 783:20 786:14 813:1 867:16 p resent 639:22 669:10 687:3 715:20 739:4 756:2 859:5 861:21 862:10 p resentation 785:24 p resentatio n s 719:21,22 Index: pointing..product presently 859:2 p reserved 730:21 presid en t 650:16 687:23,25 702:13 704:23 705:6 press 702:14 704:16,17,20 707:3 764:9,14,20 766:19 767:2 768:11 786:4 pressure 649:9 pretty 655:3 733:6 776:21 p revent 778:14 P revention 696:1 p reviously 622:17 695:20 713:24 714:3 875:3 principle 816:4 821:25 principles 724:21 739:15 print 796:12 p rio r 627:14 634:7 635:15 636:5 694:25 730:22 731:2 763:6 764:11 784:9 787:9 841:12 864:23 prism 738:20,21 790:9 805:15 prob ab ility 795:16 probable 794:19 problem 698:5,16 815:17 854:10 859:8 874:21 procedure 747:17,19 748:9 750:10,11,14 751:10 793:14 859:8,15 p rocedures 722:20 723:1 748:11 759:12 793:6 817:9 839:17 840:8 proceed 713:2 pro ceed ing s 691:4 835:5 875:25 process 719:11 726:13 790:6 791:2 792:16 793:10 796:16 797:2 816:12 827:22 861:14 p rocessed 846:5 p rocesses 716:2 796:9 produce 790:12 product 652:5 669:22 672:17, 21 673:22 675:22,23 691:11 694:23 695:3 698:3 708:19 719:25 721:4 729:2 730:14,16 744:6 749:3 755:18 756:1 763:1, 4 773:21 776:18 784:6 787:6 796:3 814:18 818:14 820:9 825:20 835:22 839:21 840:5,25 842:1,9,19,25 844:22 846:8,9 850:9 852:20 853:7 866:19 production 693:21 products 626:12 629:25 630:4, 7 658:12 661:6 669:18 670:11 675:24 679:8 693:18,24 694:1 698:16 716:16 717:20,24 718:6 721:22 722:4,8,10,11,22 728:10 747:11 752:16 760:20,24 764:4 787:13 806:17 837:23,25 839:25 840:2,6,9 842:3,16 844:4 846:6 853:16 868:1,6 profession 713:22 professional 686:16 859:23 P rofessor 644:9 645:1 655:25 proffered 771:25 pro ficien cy 831:6 program 696:1 724:3,14,17 727:17,19,20 828:25 program s 722:19,23,24 723:5 727:25 728:13,17 828:23 pro g ressively 822:6 prohibits 761:3 868:10 project 728:4 742:10 projections 676:13 projects 728:6,8 729:15 prom otion 859:18 p rom pt 785:20 prom pted 639:5 prom ptly 641:19 642:1 666:20 pronounce 644:13 p ro o f 743:15 841:21 p ro p er 770:6 872:25 p roperly 873:6 properties 740:10 proposed 859:14 p roposition 648:7 protected 703:15 Protection 832:16 p rotective 627:4 protocol 747:19 756:25 790:15 852:8,23 protocols 793:6 812:20 813:1 prove 767:10 769:3 proven 632:15 provide 693:7 703:7,11 724:10 755:14 781:2 provided 674:4,10 714:9 756:1 providing 692:19 provision 782:12 prudent 775:15 public 624:15 629:9 632:11 640:14 648:3,16 649:2,4,7,10 650:21,24 662:8,21 663:1,3 685:6,16 686:8,11 689:1 699:15 709:9,11 711:15,23 794:6,10 publication 633:12 720:24 792:7 831:17 832:2,14 publications 662:15 667:15,17 719:12,15,20 publicly 649:20 658:18 700:4, 21 701:1,21,24 702:3,25 703:3,4 704:17 705:1,2 708:11 709:3 747:3,6 publish 650:9 770:7 771:7,9 833:5 published 627:21,23 633:17 647:12,23 652:13 655:14 663:4 664:4,20,25 667:23 676:25 695:3,18 696:2 698:20 702:5,8 706:21 719:23 720:2,23 726:20 746:19 748:6 751:11 773:5,6 790:25 791:25 817:17 831:12,13 849:8 p u b lisher 631:11,12 632:9 puffs 720:17,19,21 pull 624:18 641:15 645:17 657:10 pulled 675:12 pulm onale 701:15 Index: production..questions purchase 744:17 purchased 767:22 774:12,20 779:17 780:4 783:23 786:17 pure 829:3 832:11 purity 623:18 742:16 purpose 677:21 696:13 730:13 769:8 771:20 777:11 purposes 690:16 696:17,19 740:21 758:13 770:11 771:18 816:17 pursuant 786:6 pushed 652:19 put 630:6,18 631:11 635:13,14 637:4,7 653:5 654:25 661:21 673:4 676:18 691:17 700:20 704:3,17 714:6 721:1 732:25 740:8,13 746:8 748:1 753:22 754:11 758:16 762:18 764:14 771:2 775:3 796:15 799:19 801:24 805:10 826:11,18 829:7 847:1 putting 654:7 677:18 692:7,15 753:21 770:23 Q qualificatio n s 623:1 640:2 721:17 797:22 q ualified 825:12 quality 722:19,23,24 724:3 848:11 qu an tifiab le 863:21 864:1,6,10, 14 qu an tity 737:22 question 624:17,22 626:9 627:1 629:10 641:7 642:20 644:24 650:2 652:24 654:8 657:4 664:18 665:2 671:3 672:11 673:10 678:16 685:3,19 698:11 710:7 711:7 770:12 831:24 835:23 850:20,21 851:9 q u estion ab le 776:3 q u estion n aire 683:16 q u estion n aires 685:3 qu estion s 632:23 640:11 642:24 646:9 662:24 690:6 698:9 699:2 709:23 710:6 712:4, 6 770:9 825:25 quibble 636:24 quickly 815:15 quietly 703:24,25 859:16 quit 688:15,22,23 quote 703:20 833:14 quoted 704:7 quotes 703:25 quoting 703:2 R R.C. 752:11 radio 760:22 868:3 radius 677:9 railroad 736:8 845:24 846:1,4, 11,19 862:3 raise 713:9 775:17 raising 668:3 range 675:6,8,22 746:2,6 750:22,24 753:6 787:19 795:1 842:4,11,14,18 843:10 844:20, 23 846:22 853:2 859:12 ranged 675:16 rapid 720:24 ratio 738:11 758:7,9 789:3,6,9, 11,14,16 793:23 794:8,13,15,18 795:5,13,18 797:19,22 798:7,25 799:9 802:9,20 803:3,7,12 804:13 808:22 809:24 813:19 816:23,24,25 817:2,7,12,18 821:3 825:2 828:7 829:20 830:5 845:2,21 846:14,23 847:1 863:18 rationale 772:22 773:1,3 ratios 794:4,7 803:8 806:7 845:22 raw 814:18 rays 741:17 R CA 742:2,4 re-recross 710:4 reach 666:13,16 711:15 871:14 reached 706:16 read 625:1 629:13 632:2 634:7 644:24 647:9 657:13 664:24 669:11,14 671:16 672:2,8 674:7 681:10 688:15 691:19,20 703:20 708:23 748:5 755:12 760:19 779:7,9,18,20,22 780:6 781:12, 23 782:7,11,12,13,14,19,21,22, 23 783:1,8,15 784:12,17 786:22 811:7 859:19 867:25 reading 635:24 760:21 868:2 readout 804:22 ready 622:6 712:25 759:22 785:9 866:25 real 643:23 671:3 678:18 778:17 805:7 823:22 830:24 reality 692:25 realm 723:6 745:13 reapply 726:9 reason 654:7,13 669:4 736:2 823:25 852:3,4,23 reasonable 662:17 753:6 809:7 859:6 reasons 695:19 718:23 741:2 753:4 766:12 769:6 770:5 776:4 778:15 851:20 reassuring 661:22 recall 624:12 625:17 637:25 644:10 645:3 649:1,8,12 653:8, 21 654:5 656:6 660:8 665:4,15, 16,18 666:3,4,6 685:18 761:16 767:16,22 768:14 769:14 774:6 781:17,21 787:23 828:17 869:16 recalling 683:21 receive 742:22 869:5 received 641:21,22 receiving 661:19 869:9 recent 650:18 845:23 863:11 recently 700:18 705:2 709:3 784:10 787:10 recertified 726:14 recess 712:19 760:14 761:12 835:12 867:11,22 Index: quibble..reflecting recesses 761:6 recognize 657:6 730:12 recognized 662:8 664:11 recollection 649:9 692:17 recom m end 699:20 817:18 859:4 recom m ended 699:21 748:22 record 638:10,13 670:5 690:11 696:11 705:22 706:21 721:6 761:13 763:12 776:13 779:22 785:14,15 810:5,8 835:6 868:17 875:24 recorded 674:9 810:10 818:4,8 827:25 recording 761:3 809:18 868:11 records 672:8 697:21 700:1 703:13 reco ver 754:14 recross 868:21 R E C R O S S -E X A M IN A T IO N 710:11 recycle 859:9 recycling 859:13 red 756:13 redact 774:5,22 780:7 781:13 redacted 786:9 787:22 788:3 redirect 690:23,24 699:4,6 868:25 reduce 693:8 reduced 701:17 referee 728:3,5 729:14 reference 670:10 683:17 710:13,20 724:4 793:7,9 804:23, 25 828:16 829:11,14 830:8,23 856:9 references 805:2 828:20 referred 656:11,14 659:16 referring 624:12 706:3 708:15 823:16 860:19 refineries 677:7 reflecting 821:25 refractive 740:8 826:9 refurbishing 742:10 regard 831:23 regarded 692:20 703:16 regim e 773:11 regions 832:15,20 reg ister 792:23 registered 724:1 registers 849:24 reg ular 678:3 721:18 reg ularity 639:12 regulated 758:13 797:23 799:3, 5,7 809:19 regulation 758:25 regulations 772:14 792:18 793:16,20 794:3,17 810:22 817:9 831:12,14 reg ulato ry 758:8 825:14 rehired 688:15,21,23 relate 727:13 related 673:7 701:19 730:15 742:24 784:16 843:24 relates 719:11 724:22 relating 662:9 756:25 relations 705:8 relatio n ship 716:15 relative 804:13 release 674:23 702:14 704:16, 17,20 706:20 707:3 729:25 730:9,15,16 764:9,15,20 767:2 768:11 786:4 released 655:23 671:9 674:19 706:19 730:4 761:7 868:13 releases 698:3 relevance 850:14 relevant 707:21 765:8 766:2 774:2 776:11 778:1 779:5 reliability 776:3,20 reliable 831:23 reliance 771:2 relied 722:6 856:6 858:17 R elief 758:25 relu ctan tly 706:20 rely 662:14 668:8 721:19 722:2 831:1 833:19 rem ain 807:22,23 rem arks 777:7 rem edial 767:9 768:24 771:13 rem ediation 728:4 729:15 740:23 rem em ber 635:23 639:10 640:21,25 645:15,19 655:15 660:11 661:11 662:1 666:24 670:15,18 671:2,10 678:7 681:3, 4 685:21 692:8 710:14,16,21 734:17 742:3 746:4 749:6 790:2, 8 797:19 802:23 804:7 805:14 821:23 826:5 832:8 837:24 844:15 854:7 862:12 865:22,25 rem em bered 636:3 rem ind 789:8 828:19 rem oves 833:16 ren d er 640:1 renow ned 646:6 reordered 771:16 repeatedly 764:4 773:20 787:12 rephrase 698:11 replicate 865:13 report 644:18 695:11,12,14,18, 21 705:24 753:9,10 766:8 796:12,15 799:19 803:2 848:1 859:7 865:1,5 867:21 reported 646:23 660:3,5 671:7 695:8 701:13,15 706:7 718:10 832:15 reporting 770:13 reports 650:18 660:8 693:19 695:1,4,10 698:21 699:11,14 711:3,4,5,8,16 747:3 843:24 848:8,11 849:3 rep resen t 634:22 683:3 691:18 rep resentation 803:22 864:25 866:16 Index: refractive..restful rep resen tatio n s 764:25 rep resen tative 836:6 864:2 rep resen tatives 705:19 represented 705:9 815:6 reproducible 723:2 reputable 662:22 reputation 642:16,18 643:15,18 667:6,20,21 request 634:25 766:13 808:14 867:3 require 813:7 required 792:19 805:1 829:5 req uirem en t 800:3 860:2 research 633:4,17 638:1 642:4, 15 643:1,18,21 645:4 649:15 650:19 661:6 662:25 665:2 666:11 682:6 715:9,21,23 726:22 742:8 researched 649:20 research er 649:17 researchers 644:16 661:12 722:2 reserve 873:5 reserved 873:22 874:6 reserving 872:17 respect 666:21 817:7 827:23 856:8 869:23 870:24 871:13 respected 632:10 645:25 651:20 667:11,25 resp ectfu lly 766:13 867:3 respiratory 697:22 701:10 842:14 respond 641:19 777:1 response 641:21,23 768:7 774:8,15 778:4 779:12,25 783:19 786:13 869:16,21 resp o n sibilities 718:14 resp o n sibility 702:17 774:25 responsible 662:24 692:19 rest 632:13 809:13 restful 622:5 result 708:17 765:3,6 resulting 677:5 results 660:5 662:25 678:7 722:6 723:18 744:2 762:24 764:11 765:12 773:25 775:21 795:19 844:3,6 845:5 846:2 849:1 resum ed 622:16 resum ption 691:4 835:5 retailer 767:23 774:12,20 779:17 780:5 783:24 786:18 retained 626:2,10 634:18 637:16 645:8 872:18 retired 718:23 retract 647:14 retracting 647:23 retraction 648:6 705:17,20 706:10,15 review 708:17 719:11 721:22 799:15 848:6 856:2 review ed 812:19,25 820:5 851:12 R eynolds 752:11 rice 637:18,20,24 682:25 737:13,14 richterite 844:14 846:25 ride 719:5 right-hand 735:25 823:18 rights 684:4 R ig ler 713:6,7,11,18,20 714:12 719:13 725:22 730:12 731:5 743:18 753:11 768:10,17 770:9 771:2,10 778:5 786:2 787:23 788:4,11 808:19 811:22 814:20 819:5 835:17 836:10 847:24 855:19 860:11 862:23 871:21 R igler's 714:5 768:8 770:8 781:14 rigorous 784:7 787:7 ring 664:12 rise 622:1 712:14,20 761:9 785:16 risk 697:22 risks 682:22 rival 677:4 RM C 716:12 R obert 857:12 rock 725:13 rod 806:16 R oggli 872:19 873:3 R oggli's 872:21,22 Rohl 655:15,25 657:7 659:22 702:2,17,19 role 673:9 847:22 roll 690:11 691:10 Rolle 857:12 rolled 720:13 736:4 rolling 692:2 Ron 637:22 679:16 682:19,24 683:11,19 room s 761:25 rotate 740:15 808:1 827:19 rotated 807:19 830:17 round 719:6 796:21,23 797:3,5 836:12,22 837:13,14 839:3,6 843:23 844:6 845:5,16 rounds 796:20 835:20 846:15 routinely 722:6 787:16 routines 722:25 ro w 735:11 rows 801:17 R ubino 627:25 628:7 rule 642:21 767:13 768:24 769:7 771:12 774:3,21 779:6 810:1,3 870:7 rules 731:1 745:4 758:16 772:22 793:10 794:16 809:18 810:16,20 818:9 820:1 rulings 786:6 870:9 run 751:10 805:16 rundow n 715:17 running 683:7 715:19 Index: result..scheduled rush 768:8 776:22 777:3 rushing 767:3 R utgers 833:3 resum e 686:15 687:3,5 688:9 S S A E D 802:11,23 830:8 safe 652:5 692:19 701:8 704:6, 13 725:4 784:8 787:8 safest 720:7 safety 649:21 651:4 654:11,24 662:4 664:20 705:22 725:1,2 737:1 859:7 salt 689:12 sam ple 729:5,8,18 732:23,24 755:17 757:15 776:19 784:2,3,4 787:1,2,4 795:22 796:2,3,7 797:7,9,16 798:20 800:16 803:4 817:20,21 820:3 821:6 824:10, 16 825:1,4,15,23 826:8,11 827:6,24 828:8 829:1,6,7 839:17 843:13,21 sam p les 646:23 647:3 656:1, 11,14 657:17 658:1,5,10,16 659:8 663:6 665:20 705:24 706:7 724:9 725:19 746:25 759:8 774:11,19 775:24 779:16 780:4 783:23 786:17 796:5,24 797:1 828:5 836:6,7,8,24 837:1, 14,16 840:10,22 845:6,24 846:1, 3,7,11 sam pling 665:23 728:6 792:11 San 716:7 S an ch ez 771:17 775:6 S aturday 871:3 saw ing 676:8 scale 725:14 801:7 scanning 715:12 718:8 739:7,8, 14,18,22 741:6 821:18,22 822:1, 7 842:23 s ca tter 739:19 sch ed u le 771:16 sch ed u led 688:4 875:3 sch ed u ling 712:24 school 639:18 640:14 642:13, 16,18 643:2 653:24 655:19 662:21 663:1,3 705:7,18 711:2, 14 715:19 719:9 729:21 734:15 740:6,23 804:9 schools 632:11 759:3,4 scien ce 662:18 686:11 689:1 714:19 717:10 730:13 732:10 735:17 752:12 809:1 847:21 scien tific 648:9,13 660:13 719:13,22,23 722:5 732:15 746:16 756:5 773:11 809:8 849:7 scien tist 623:12,15 655:21 717:6 735:14 746:20 794:11 833:3 836:3 843:19 859:23 864:5 scien tists 645:6 657:3 658:7 665:8,22 666:16 705:23 721:19 722:1,21 723:14 724:7 741:13 751:2 793:3 scope 710:5 868:24 screen 657:11 723:8 733:15 756:21 762:18 scroll 646:18 SC R S 716:4 seal 784:4 787:3 841:9,11,15 sealed 838:11,14,15 841:23 seat 762:1 seated 622:4 712:22 713:15 785:18 S ection 816:19 863:21 securities 764:19 seed 716:1 seek 769:14 779:1 780:9 sees 682:18 822:3 833:15 selected 791:11 816:6 831:19 selectio n 772:15 S e lik o ff 646:3,10,22 647:12 648:25 652:7 653:5,10 654:9,17, 23 655:1,25 657:7 659:16,22 677:15,25 678:19 679:19,23 680:14 681:5,8 682:11,16 685:1 694:21,25 695:23 697:2,15 698:24 699:21 702:2,16,25 703:6,20,21,22,23 704:7 706:2, 3,6,13 S e lik o ffs 698:1,13 SEM 824:6 sem esters 715:5 S enate 688:16 send 681:19 711:10 s e n io r 666:25 687:22 702:16 716:11 717:6 sense 635:9 638:18 659:20 676:4 770:17 sen sitive 734:9 740:20 763:21 770:20 sen sitivity 733:22,25 734:6 735:4 sen ten ce 653:4 698:19 779:7,9, 10 781:4 separate 695:1 746:14 750:25 753:14,25 852:1 sep arated 746:15 750:5 751:3, 8 sep arates 755:3 sep aratin g 746:1 748:11 sep aratio n 745:25 746:17 747:13 754:11 755:9,16 778:7 790:20 812:15 813:9 851:24 853:2 859:22 sep aratio n s 750:23 S e p te m b er 692:13 765:11,17 series 670:11 699:14 826:23 843:23 844:16 serp entin e 736:2 746:6 815:4 serp entin es 735:23 service 724:10 services 714:1 716:22,25 717:2,3 sessio n s 761:5 set 627:9 792:18 830:12 sets 853:23 setting 780:22 Index: scheduling..side S even th 767:15 Shape 741:4 759:15 788:25 791:6 808:22 830:4 843:4,5,6 share 673:14 695:16 Sheet 736:3 799:10 800:1,8,10 801:16 802:6,14,15,21 810:6,7 811:4 827:25 848:8 sheets 799:16,21 S h elley 642:5 Sh ip 801:14 shipyards 677:7 sh o o t 842:13 Short 674:2 789:17 839:1 874:1 875:17 shorter 756:15 shortly 648:22 Show 635:25 656:17 658:15 660:11 671:12 674:13 700:12 703:19 707:7 753:13 761:25 767:12 802:21 823:2 827:7 829:17 832:3 834:7 Showed 665:12 684:19 690:12 700:20,24 702:24 704:25 737:24 747:21 751:16 808:21,23,25 854:8 Showing 628:11 672:19 682:21 722:12 754:3 756:13 803:23 833:16 834:12 842:20,21,22 856:12 861:13 874:17 Shown 640:23 645:17 652:22 660:1 665:10 681:1 702:14 710:13,16 Shows 631:3 653:16 656:20 659:3 660:19 663:16 668:16 680:5 696:18 707:23 737:12 743:7 745:16 751:23 786:7 787:21 802:6 803:22 804:13 808:19,20 811:20 814:13 815:18 823:24 824:19 828:10 832:20 857:4 861:2,14 Shroud 643:22 SI 804:2,11 Sick 672:12 Side 634:19 737:13 775:23 822:11 823:18 829:21 870:4 side's 873:6 sides 758:1 813:18 816:22 863:18 signature 824:17 830:7,22 signed 642:3 681:7,9 significant 684:7 749:13 822:15 825:6 852:14 Silica 701:5,13 Silicate 735:18 831:19 Silicon 804:2,11,13 806:8 silicone 824:19 829:23 Similar 701:18 735:21 806:1,7 Simply 640:4 749:13 759:1 760:21 868:2 Sinai 645:24 646:11,21 647:11, 23 648:2,6,16,22 649:1,10,20,23 650:1,17,20 651:4,19,21,24 653:23 655:19,23 657:7 658:2 661:12,20 662:2 702:11,12 703:9,10 704:18,23 705:6,8,12, 18,23 706:1,8,11,19 S inai's 652:3 single 735:8 744:24 746:5 761:17 774:7,11,19 779:16,24 780:4 783:18,23 786:12,17 819:8 848:6 866:7,8,9 Sir 622:23 624:2 626:9 629:10, 11 633:3 638:11 639:2 690:4 711:7 712:10 713:22 718:18,24 723:11 726:18 727:3 729:22 735:10,13 743:19 744:9,15 747:2 748:3,25 752:10,18 754:25 755:13 761:23 788:13,22 791:10,18 792:22 797:6 798:6,9, 15,21,24 799:4 812:3 814:21 817:16 818:11 824:25 828:6 832:1 849:10 856:5,17,20 857:18 858:22 Sit 848:14 Site 627:8,16 669:7 Sites 677:7 sitting 733:16,17 situation 770:4 775:11 six-point 808:1 Size 678:14 738:10 740:4 745:12 789:2 794:20 820:16 823:5 841:25 842:4,7,11,13,18 843:2, 7,10 844:19 864:3 sizes 800:24 slanted 670:22 Slide 722:12 727:10,18 732:14 808:7,19 839:10 Slip 725:6 Sloan 857:13 slow s 719:9 sm all 733:15,19 734:25 737:11, 20,23 744:23 745:16 754:8,13 756:1 801:25 824:5 872:1 s m aller 734:2 741:20 794:13 795:15 810:2 825:11 842:12 847:7 sm ell 737:2 sm oke 720:7 726:20 sm oked 721:14 social 772:12 S o ciety 726:15 792:15 sod a 736:5 sodium 844:17 soil 735:20 sold 626:11 solid 697:7,11,16 698:2,22 715:15 732:23 826:22 solutio n 826:23 844:16 solven t 844:16 solving 847:20 som eb o d y's 671:9 676:3 som eth in g's 789:22 sort 627:5 649:10 737:7 750:24 795:20 796:19 800:12 808:7 823:9,14,15 835:19 842:14 857:8 sound 636:7 670:23 692:16 725:11 sou n d s 635:22 733:6 772:3 source 623:8 763:3 836:14,17, 23 837:2 838:2 845:23 846:20 850:10 Index: side's..spoke sou rced 624:25 837:17 838:4, 25 847:15,16 849:12,16 sou rces 747:7 787:14 796:22 837:12 838:21 849:11 south 673:23 716:7 S o uthern 767:15 space 733:16 749:7 spacing 830:15 speak 655:5 656:10 speakin g 667:25 776:23 812:16 special 625:19 827:12 sp ecialist 716:11,14,16 specializatio n 717:17 specialize 717:8 specialized 841:7 specially 793:13 specific 642:7 671:14 672:3,6 720:6 722:25 738:12 740:20 758:6 796:7 809:18 826:8 843:4 853:22 specifically 654:18 715:6,22 727:20 747:10 748:14 749:16,19 844:12 872:22 specificatio n 803:11 811:25 842:6 853:18 854:3,4,5,16,17 specificatio n s 669:9 787:15 797:23 811:12 859:25 specifies 748:9 specim en 739:12,19 790:12 824:4 s p e ctro m e te r 738:15 790:3 spectro m eters 742:20 specu latio n 709:20 speed 754:14 spend 718:20 spen t 709:9 spins 755:1 splayed 823:11,15,21,24 834:3, 13 spoke 677:14 685:24 spot 800:23 802:24 805:10 spots 807:5,8,10,22,23 811:7 830:14 sprayed 679:2 spread 823:15 square 800:20 801:23 802:2,5 854:7 squares 801:10 squat 797:25 squeezed 720:13 St 728:15 Staff 653:3 724:24 760:15 867:23 Stage 783:25 786:24 859:12 861:20 staining 827:11 861:19 stamp 737:15 Stand 622:16,18 713:13 764:3 781:14 782:6 787:24 835:8 standard 661:25 723:15 747:16,20 748:2,8 749:15 784:7 787:7 790:18 791:24 792:14 804:23 829:1,3,10,11,14,18 830:9 864:14 standards 723:11,12,23 724:8 725:3,7,10 727:15 728:2 747:14, 23,25 751:13 787:15 792:4 804:25 828:21 830:8 831:3 853:24 standpoint 668:4 stands 758 24 766 6 Start 622:25 633:14 692:7,11,15 700 16 794 22 796 10 807 7 808:1 819:24 858:8 Started 633:4,20 635:18,19 638:5 680:17,20 685:19 687:20 694:15,23 716:5 717:1 742:15 750:20 778:3 Starting 636:6 679:4 683:7 695:3 715:18 861:15 Starts 646:20 650:18 State 684:8,12,21 701:11 708:15 728:14 744:1 747:7 767:14 833:1 Stated 654:18 684:18 851:5 874:5 statement 646:20 647:14,17,25 648:13,15,21,24 649:2,5,7,10 650:13 651:7,14 652:23 653:7 665:14,15 690:12 705:20 706:10,12,15,16,18,21 762:19 765:25 766:6 775:5 850:25 statements 648:9 654:10 684:2,7 703:2 764:18 776:12 States 728:9,11 758:16 761:18 774:7 779:24 783:18 786:12 832:15,20 833:11 stating 654:17 stay 722:20 795:10,12 807:25 stays 842:14 Step 761:24 788:25 789:21,23 790:6,7 791:14 798:12 803:15, 18 805:3,5 826:3,4 step-scanning 666:1 Stephen 676:20 Steps 722:25 759:14 802:12 806:6 828:2 Stick 754:23 sticking 757:14 Stipulated 650:4,5,6 656:18 658:23 659:2 663:13 707:10,12 743:5 751:21 811:18 814:2 815:12 854:24 Stock 661:20 669:15 Stood 764:24 773:22 . .......... Stop 716:18 789:5 859:13 861:16,17,23 862:1 Stopped 632:16 776:18 824:1 stopping 866:24 storage 801:25 story 700:6,15 S TR 801:19 straw 736:5 strength 757:6,7,10,18 stretch 834:23 string 800:14 Index: spot..sugar stringent 723:5 724:3 787:14 Structure 736:4,7 738:6 758:2 790:13 791:12,13,14,21 795:22 797:17 798:13,19 799:6 800:13, 22 801:20,22 802:7 803:11,25 805:6,11,17,22 807:7,14,15,18, 19 808:20 810:17 820:8 821:6,7, 15 822:10 823:25 824:2 825:19 828:4 830:4,9,23 structures 744:22 749:14 795:12,13 797:16,20 800:4,11 803:3,19 805:4 817:2,3,23 818:9,14,15,20,22,23 819:5,16, 23 820:13 823:1 825:8 826:10 827:5 829:9 830:11 832:6,7 833:7,10 853:3 862:10 863:13 866:13,19 Studied 648:2 701:9 705:24 Studies 665:9 671:8 678:1,4,8, 21 693:16,22 694:18,20,22 695:6 698:6,14 Study 655:14,24 660:14 663:4,9 682:4 694:5 697:4,20 720:12 Studying 646:23 706:6 Stuff 677:19 755:3,4,5 777:20 874:20 subject 640:14 679:3 714:23 760:10 781:24,25 782:1 867:16 submit 869:3 870:4,19 submitted 760:13 867:19 subsequent 767:9 768:24 769:2 771:13 subsequently 874:8 subsidiary 752:8 substance 757:5 substances 715:2 721:23 substantially 789:2 subtrace 748:23 749:1,4 763:8 774:10,17 779:14 780:2 783:21 786:15 suburbs 714:1 sued 634:20 sufficiently 763:20 778:13 sugar 84/ 6 sug g ested 705:15 795:4 823:4 sug g estin g 681:16 sug g estio n 870:10 suitable 755:15 sum m arized 844:3 sum m ary 669:2,4 814:18 S u n d ay 764:22 869:14,21 870:15,19,21,23 871:3 s u p e r 739:23 sup p liers 787:16 sup p o se 624:17 627:13 649:4 653:2 surface 792:13 surprise 849:21,23 874:10 surprised 636:2 surro un d in g 677:9 surveillan ce 744:5 su sp ect 744:3 769:20 susp ected 792:13 sustain 658:19 698:10 808:16 812:21,23 836:1 847:25 851:10 s w ea r 622:9 sw orn 622:17 681:10 713:13 788:6,7 sym bol 745:10 system 875:14 system s 724:16 T tab le 654:8 657:10 804:8 tailin g s 859:9 takes 737:9 747:16 takin g 699:15 761:4 866:9 868:11 talc 623:9,17 624:25 625:7,14, 23,24,25 626:3,12 627:3,4,7,11, 12,17,22 628:3,11 629:20 645:1 646:10,23 647:13,21,24 649:21, 23 651:12,25 652:1,4 654:11 656:1,5 657:5 659:8,23 662:18 663:5 664:20 665:10 667:16,18 668:24 669:6,9 700:25 701:5,7, 10,11 703:24 704:1 705:23,24 706:7,21 708:7 711:24 736:19 742:25 743:17,24 744:8 745:18 746:1,2,12,25 747:8 748:9,13,24 749:17,22,24 750:19,25 752:8, 16.24 753:14,20,24 754:11,16 755:9,16,18 756:1,17 762:15,20, 23 773:16 775:24 776:2,14 778:5,12 784:8 787:8,12,13,17 788:16 793:13 799:13 806:2,4, 14.16.18.21.22.24 807:1,4,13,15 808:2,4 811:13 812:5,16,22 813:1 814:19 815:23 816:1 818:15 820:9 825:20 827:6 830:25 835:21 836:14,17 837:23 838:4,20 841:25 842:8,24 844:4 845:23 846:4,11 847:15,16 848:3,15,16 849:12,16,19 850:11 851:3,13 852:2 853:15, 16 854:5 856:3 857:10 859:12 860:16 861:5,6,7,14 862:2,4,24 865:21 talc's 753:25 talcs 746:22 talcum 641:8 650:19 talk 639:15 646:11 672:4 686:25 687:1 694:5 696:16 707:21 723:9 727:23 728:21 729:24 749:15 750:20 760:6,10,14 781:22 794:22 813:8 835:17 855:13 867:11,15,22 872:11,12 talked 626:23 628:15 638:23 652:8 662:3 664:17 684:1 691:24 737:24 741:2 747:17 759:14 767:10 788:24 790:2,8, 19 792:5,23 794:19 802:23 805:14 809:22 810:9 811:10 821:23 830:17 831:9 832:8 834:3,5 842:8 844:16 848:9,12 853:9 talkin g 626:19 647:17 663:9 665:13 674:17 675:25 676:7 688:17 690:2 691:14 694:2,10, 11 697:3 698:6 711:18,19,20 749:22 750:12 756:7 759:19 774:5 788:14 796:9 797:20 806:11 807:11 819:4 862:17,18, 20 863:1 869:13,24 talks 674:22 697:6 699:23 750:4 ta m p e r 841:21 Index: suggested..test tam p ered 841:5 tam p erin g 841:19 tape 630:1 690:11 691:11 729:6 873:9 te a r 840:5 tec h n ica lly 810:16 tech n ician 715:21 tech nician s 722:3 tech n iq u e 750:5 751:12,17 752:22 753:5 778:11 807:5 827:11 854:14 856:10,14 858:19 tech n iq u es 770:20 778:7 816:5 859:14 tech n o lo g ies 716:10 tech n o lo g ists 722:5 tec h n o lo g y 727:16 741:11 859:17 televisin g 761:3 8 6 8 :11 televisio n s 742:4 tellin g 773:23 862:12 tells 642:7,12 733:2 802:8 TEM 727:19,22 733:13 737:25 744:11,13 750:8 792:19 822:5 823:22 824:4,8 829:7 836:21 837:20 854:14 859:25 862:18 ten 701:24 760:4 795:5 810:17 819:23,24 ten d ed 645:10 te n d e r 658:24 tens 852:18 853:5 865:23 ten sile 757:6,7,10,18 tenth 801:12 854:11,13 term 638:12 698:22 733:21 789:5,7 844:14 term s 640:10 647:20 664:19 674:19 689:8 700:13 735:19 757:5 800:24 818:16 819:18 862:9 865:20 test 717:14 719:24 722:22 723:4 725:9 728:22,25 729:10,23,25 730:3 731:8 735:11 738:3 742:24 753:18 754:8,20 757:19 762:24 763:19 764:11 765:3,6 774:9,16 775:20 776:17 779:13 780:1 783:20 786:14 787:16 812:15 839:18 849:24 857:10 861:24 tested 623:17 659:23 661:12 717:24 722:8,10 762:19,22 763:3,4 764:4 773:21 775:25 777:19 784:6 787:5,18 820:5 831:8 836:7,16,23 839:7,19 840:7 841:6 846:6 848:3 849:22 862:6 testified 622:18 626:14 627:20 628:9 633:25 634:13 635:20 648:18 672:10 673:11 680:19 681:11 684:13 713:14 849:4 858:12 tes tify 625:23 634:8,25 639:8, 14 672:14,15,24 689:21 771:16 856:25 testifyin g 633:20,22 635:5,11, 19 680:16,17 683:8,10 688:16 709:10 tes tim o n y 624:9,21 627:14 628:12 634:7 635:15,18 636:6 639:5,22 640:8,15 646:4 651:17 672:3,9,16 674:4,8,10 681:10 689:10 767:20 770:8 771:8 776:9 777:19 808:13 testing 646:10 647:20 648:3 662:1 666:8 711:12 713:25 718:5 722:6,14 723:6,23 724:8 725:18 727:13,21 728:9,12 730:13 731:16 762:13,14,21 763:17 765:12,15 767:11 769:10 770:16,17 775:9 777:16,22,23 778:3,13 784:7,8,9 787:7,8,9 792:15 795:20 796:20,23 797:5 799:16 812:19,22,25 813:1 814:19 828:22 835:18,20,21 836:2,11,13 837:10 839:22,24 840:1,2,21 841:7,20 842:2 844:3 846:15 847:13 848:19,23 850:23,25 851:13,14 852:9,23 853:19,22,24 854:6 859:25 862:11 tests 717:19 718:1 728:20 731:19 765:24 784:11 787:11 851:19 854:2,3 textile 694:9 that'll 690:24 712:13 716:18 therm al 630:1 675:24 677:5,21 678:1,6 T h erm ob esto s 675:1,19,22 thesis 632:10 633:5 640:13,16 th ic k e r 756:16 thin 824:3,5 834:4 thing 631:15 642:22,25 649:14 650:24,25 669:17 685:19 715:16 725:8 726:9 730:10 738:4,22 740:14 769:20 777:2,10 778:23 782:13 794:15 806:25 809:23 820:13 822:10 824:4 840:23 841:2 852:14 853:18 thin gs 637:2 645:11 649:16,22 652:13 653:2 655:11 667:23 672:5 674:11 678:25 679:9 682:8,10 683:25 687:18 698:20 700:24 702:22 709:18 723:17 725:5,9 726:14 731:6 732:18 765:1 772:16 774:24,25 794:10 808:15 809:2 810:6,8 823:4 832:4 833:20 837:4 863:14 thin kin g 640:9 656:8 768:4 835:1 thin ks 695:19 708:18 th in n e r 789:15 821:2 th ird -p a rty 724:15 this'll 835:10 Thom as 642:5 650:14 th o u g h t 632:12 639:19 662:2 697:15 705:15 706:9 771:1 814:9 857:21,25 tho u san d 634:4 636:7,17,22 637:15 732:11 tho u san d s 784:11 787:11 799:20 852:19 865:23,24 th ree-d im en sio n al 739:21 three -s te p 759:19 788:14,19 790:15,23 791:2,20,21 792:8,16, 19,24 793:2,10,21 795:21 808:8, 18 815:22 816:12 th ree-to -o n e 758:9 794:16 795:1 th re w 875:21 th ro w 684:6 Index: tested..Todd throw n 682:20 749:10 Thu rsd ay 771:17 TID 875:8 tile 840:4 tiles 806:20 till 677:17 705:2 712:13 869:14, 15 tilt 807:6 tilted 733:1 tiltin g 807:7 tim e 625:23 626:1,9,14 634:8,24 636:12,16,19 637:9,14 645:7 651:22 657:4 661:17,19 665:5, 17 672:21 679:13,23 682:12 683:6 692:14 693:11 697:16 698:2,13,15 717:5 718:20,21 721:11 731:9,17 742:20 759:24 760:16 762:22 767:25 768:3 778:2 780:8 785:21 805:7 811:16 825:16 830:24 835:11 839:2,18 848:14,19,20,22,23 849:17 857:8 858:23 859:4,10 864:24 866:22,24 867:24 871:5 tim elin e 633:7 638:24 tim ely 868:25 tim es 660:5,12 667:1 701:23 703:1,3 719:6 732:11 735:11 758:10,11 760:18 761:1 848:18 862:6 868:7 tins 844:7 tin y 737:17 749:7 757:17 tissu e 717:14 795:17 tissu es 716:1 title 628:24 629:2 696:3 792:10 862:23 T M 7024 811:25 813:14 852:8 to d a y 627:18 628:13 637:19 638:19 665:12 685:10 693:13 699:16 703:15 729:24 768:9 771:3,5,6,7 773:13,14,15,17 781:4 826:5 834:23 835:10,16 849:5 869:4 874:22 tod ay's 786:5 Todd 869:25 told 626:15 632:6,9 639:17 645:24 652:7 684:22 711:1 760:6 763:7 765:2 769:15 773:24 867:11 873:14 toll 677:4 to m o rro w 768:5 tool 732:22 733:19 738:25 739:6 753:13 790:3 825:24 826:2 tools 715:13 716:13 738:5 740:19 742:24 top 642:22 653:24 656:16,24 663:21 664:7 680:11 682:14,16 707:17 736:8 754:1,16 823:9 829:18 842:22 866:1 topic 639:10,11 668:24 873:20 874:10 top ics 679:11 759:23 total 635:12 636:11 638:15 719:16 819:18 835:17 864:11 totaled 638:16 totalin g 818:22 to ta lly 766:7 tou ch 682:11 tou g h 655:3 to u r 625:11 626:4 tou rin g 627:3 to u rist 625:18 tou rists 625:7 tou ted 720:6 TPF 856:4 trace 733:7 734:3 746:13 748:22 749:1,3,5,8,11 traces 708:19 tracked 796:7 tracks 736:8 trad e 683:19 700:1 748:19 traffic 719:4 trained 718:9,11 721:22 725:17 training 624:5 715:1,4,7 724:20 725:1 tran sitio nal 807:2 tran slate 675:3,9 tran sm issio n 623:21 665:25 715:11,23 718:7 733:13,18 734:8 738:2 739:1,10 740:24 741:9,10 743:13,22 750:15 759:13 799:12 811:13 816:1,5 862:25 treated 666:21 trea tm en t 673:8 trem o lite 657:21 736:21 804:24 815:7 829:3,15,17,22,23 830:1, 16 844:13 845:18 846:12,25 865:14,20 trial 622:6 634:16 640:3 680:19 691:4 760:11 761:6 773:12 835:5 867:17 868:8 trials 634:1 tric ky 657:9 trip 719:6 trips 711:19 tro ub le 636:14 tru e 627:17 628:10 629:5,6 634:23 635:3 639:13 691:20 771:11 794:12 807:24 828:4 833:14 truth 773:24 tub e 736:5 753:18 754:8,13,15, 21 T u esd ay 768:8 870:16 872:9 Turin 643:22 turn 667:24 685:7 696:23 770:1 850:19 turned 680:24 684:19 766:10 Turning 858:15 turns 766:8 775:6 TV 772:12 T w e n ty -fo u r 641:14 T w itter 778:18,24 tw o -ten th s 801:5 type 644:23 692:1 715:16 725:8 729:23 730:10 735:21,24 746:6 751:16 756:9 776:1 789:25 790:14 820:11 824:21 826:8,15 Index: told..university 845:3 849:14 865:9 typ e-sp ecific 733:3 typ es 640:2 715:25 717:23 735:15 736:6,18 740:15,19 751:7 807:1 826:18 832:6 843:8 844:11,12 845:15,19 846:10 865:10,11 typ ical 681:5 typ ic ally 729:18 Typo 815:8 U U.S. 701:18 774:16 779:12 780:1 783:19 786:13 853:22 U .S.P. 853:24 854:1,4 ultim ate 795:8 ultrasonic 708:22 u ltrastru ctu ral 715:9,22 716:3 un b elievab ly 737:8 unco n tam in ated 661:7 u n dercounted 819:24 u n d erestim ate 810:19 un d erg rad uate 734:13 understand 654:13 669:23 671:21 676:9 716:2 749:21 752:7 782:25 797:24 850:15 852:7 853:15 u n d erstanding 674:18 691:2 700:14 838:19 850:10 864:6 u nderstands 683:25 understood 639:21 645:15 u n fair 632:12 687:4 union 697:21 unique 699:20 827:7 unit 715:6 United 758:15 761:17 774:7 779:24 783:18 786:12 832:15,20 universities 787:20 u n iversity 644:6 714:20,21,23 715:5,8,21 unopened 837:7,10 unreaso n ab le 687:6 untreated 750:9 up-to-date 859:17 updated 726:8 793:15 updating 726:3,10 upload 875:14 u p p er 648:25 735:25 upset all 687:23 users 630:3 695:3 V vague 624:22 649:9 vag u ely 683:21 Val 625:1,2,4 628:11 validated 775:21 valu ab le 631:22 718:22 values 862:9 vaping 699:14 varieties 736:15 831:20 variety 863:25 864:7,9 vary 813:20 830:2 840:8 verificatio n 802:25 verified 800:6 802:22 verify 831:3 840:20 verm icu lite 748:15,18,23 750:19 V e rm o n t 625:1 663:5 665:10 752:6 833:1 836:15 837:17 838:22 845:13 847:15 849:16 versio n 793:20 versions 812:8,11 813:5 versus 754:7 794:15 832:3 835:25 vial 829:4 vice 687:22,25 V ic to r 742:4 video 870:11 v ie w 655:4 744:3 view ed 858:12 V illa n o v a 714:20 vin tag e 742:6 violate 779:6 virus 734:20 visibly 675:7 visited 625:4,9 626:10 visu alize 739:17 vitae 714:6 vo lu n tarily 761:16 volun tary 727:18 767:16 774:6 828:24 V o rw ald 's 682:3 V P 717:3,4 W w afted 677:8 W a g n e r 644:13,25 645:5 w a it 769:18 785:4 W ales 644:6 w alk 625:13 633:8 788:23 795:20 803:18 836:9 w alkin g 627:8,17 w all 788:16 W a lte r 643:5,8,15,20 w an ted 628:23 636:11 644:2 681:19 718:20 734:20,24 744:18 795:17 840:3,7 869:20 w arn 709:12 w arn in g 767:12 769:4 w arranted 768:10 W ashing to n 653:25 727:16 828:22 w astes 687:22 w atch 772:12 w atch in g 769:25 w aveleng th 741:19 827:13 Index: unopened..words w ays 764:21 809:2,4 w earin g 627:4 w e b 772:9 w eb site 765:20 W e d n esd ay 870:12 w e ek 682:9 765:10 766:4 809:15 871:23 874:17,21,23 w eeken d 646:22 706:2 769:23 772:5,18 867:9 868:14 869:6 870:15 871:2,15 872:11 874:13 w eeks 775:8 W e g la rz 690:6,10,14 691:5,8 696:4,7,11,15,20,22 698:12 699:1,3 785:3 w eig h 847:4 w e ig h t 655:1 720:11 818:24 866:3,15,20 w eig h ts 841:1 w e ll-fo u n d ed 772:21 w ell-resp ected 645:5 w h eelh o u se 676:6 w hite 701:18 737:17 w ide 758:10,11 789:13 w id ely 668:6 w id esp read 677:4 w idth 738:11 789:1,11 795:5 798:5,22 802:9 817:8 820:19 W illiam 663:23 727:2 W in d s o r 744:4 752:5,6,7 756:1 w ire 800:14 w ired 742:12 w ise 744:4 w isest 705:16 w ith d raw n 850:20,21 w itn esses 691:1 760:15 770:23 771:1 777:21 867:23 w o n d erin g 850:15 w ord 702:21 711:5 743:14 791:4 799:23 w o rd s 672:23 692:2 694:4 774:5 826:17 w o rk 635:8 642:12 643:6 644:1, 8 655:8 662:14 668:8 671:25 673:17 674:14 676:24 677:14 679:12 686:16 687:18 697:3,21 698:21 713:23 714:22,24 716:6, 14 720:25 721:3 737:1 740:6 741:7 742:12,13 745:6 851:24 871:3 w o rked 637:20,24 642:8 655:18 669:23 671:19,21 679:13,16 686:7,8,9 687:13,20 688:11 695:22 713:24 716:23 725:16 726:19 w o rk e r 676:8 w o rkers 627:24 677:7 678:11 693:9,20,21 694:19 697:4,8,17, 23 701:15 w o rkin g 678:22 683:1,11 687:12 693:17 695:7 730:7 736:23 741:14 752:25 872:23,24 873:10,15,16 w o rkp lace 692:19 693:2,7 725:2,15 w o rkp laces 725:4 w o rld 632:11 643:13 657:4 709:7 711:20,21,22 722:5 741:14 748:19 778:17 837:4 w o rld w id e 747:24 811:25 w o rried 684:23,25 711:16 w ra p p e r 838:15 w rap p in g 867:1 w re ck 766:7 w rite 685:15 695:16 700:7 706:17 711:3 712:7 755:17,24 788:2 w rites 697:2 704:10 743:11 w ritin g 653:1,6 671:10 680:23 682:24 684:3 685:6 692:10 694:8 708:25 w ritin g s 646:4 w ritten 633:5 668:8 669:18 670:1 674:20 676:17 677:11 678:25 679:22 681:13 684:10 857:16 870:4,6 w ro n g 751:1 798:18 811:22 w ro te 633:12 640:13 641:12,22 645:1,11 657:2 664:3 666:19,25 681:12 692:12 711:1 858:8 869:12 X X's 802:21 x-ray 623:23 665:25 732:22,25 733:1,4,7 791:8 816:7 853:10,13 854:6,8,10,14,16 856:9 857:9 858:21 860:18 861:15,16,20 862:6 XR D 732:22 854:6 Y y ea r 625:21 635:21 636:1,7 639:2 641:24 680:18 686:8,9,12 687:13 688:11 689:2 692:11 718:17 763:14 838:24 864:23 years 625:10 626:19 632:14 633:5,23 635:10 636:22 637:10 645:11 676:3 680:20 704:3 705:25 716:24 717:9,10 721:11 722:8 724:18 726:24 728:18 743:11 767:17 776:10 784:8,11 787:8,11 793:4 847:14,15 849:11 y ello w 827:21 yesterd ay 625:3 640:21 644:14 645:12,16 655:13 704:25 764:12 773:23 794:4 835:9 yesterd ay's 762:18 Y o rk 660:4,12 701:11,23 703:1, 3 704:8 710:14,17,18 728:14 Y o rk e r 679:5 young 719:1 Z zeros 774:19 zones 719:9 Index: work..zones